1 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: Welcome to Strictly Business Varieties weekly podcasts featuring conversations with 2 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: industry leaders about the business of entertainment. Today's guest is 3 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: Paul Davidson, head of Film and TV for The Orchard. 4 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:20,279 Speaker 1: The independent distributor is expected to be one of the 5 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 1: most active companies at this year's Sundance Film Festival. In 6 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: preparation for Sundance, Brett Lange, Varieties Executive editor of Film 7 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: and Media, spoke with Davidson about his approach to dealmaking, 8 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 1: why documentaries are all the rage again, and how the 9 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 1: Orchard distinguishes itself from other studios. Hello, I'm Brent Lane, 10 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:45,480 Speaker 1: and I'm the Variety Executive editor of Film and Media, 11 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: and I'm joint here today at our New York studio 12 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:52,879 Speaker 1: with Paul Davidson, who is the executive vice president of 13 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 1: Film and Television at the Orchard, one of the premier 14 00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 1: and the studios working in the space right now. Uh, 15 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:04,759 Speaker 1: the Orchard is very busy this awards season. Um, they 16 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 1: have l and Hell coming out, an acclaimed foreign film, 17 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:13,679 Speaker 1: and also the Party's just beginning. Upcoming films of the 18 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 1: Orchard include Birds of Passage, The Hummingbird Project, Date Like Sleep, 19 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 1: and under the Eiffel Tower. Very pleased to have Paul 20 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:23,960 Speaker 1: with me today. Thanks, I'm glad to be here to 21 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 1: see you. So, Paul, UM, I think to start, why 22 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:30,559 Speaker 1: don't we talk a little bit about Sundance. The slate 23 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 1: has been announced, at least the bulk of the slate. 24 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: I'm interested. Will you be at the festival this year? 25 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 1: Will you be looking for product when you hit Park City? 26 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:44,759 Speaker 1: Of course? I mean this is Sundance, is the pendulate 27 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:49,560 Speaker 1: Um festival for us next to can in Toronto. UM, 28 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 1: so we will be there in force as we have 29 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 1: been for the last set of years. It's interesting UM 30 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: to watch UH and and anticipate what we think will 31 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 1: happen there, especially with respect a competition at the festival. 32 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 1: One of the trends that we had seen mostly out 33 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 1: of two thousand, sixteen and seventeen was this scenario where 34 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 1: you had the s the streaming services who had yet 35 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:14,799 Speaker 1: to really spin up their production and development you know entities, 36 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:17,359 Speaker 1: and so as a result, everything was getting bit up 37 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:20,639 Speaker 1: fairly high. You were seeing huge you know, price tags 38 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 1: on content. And then what we saw over the last 39 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 1: year specifically, which we anticipated, was this change in the 40 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 1: marketplace where the Amazons and the Netflix is of the 41 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: world already had most of their product um in development, production, 42 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: and some of the other indies were also starting production, 43 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 1: development and production themselves, and so um it actually regulated 44 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 1: last year, and that's something that you know, we we 45 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 1: anticipate to happen this year as well, and we're looking 46 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:49,639 Speaker 1: forward to the slate. When when you talk, when you 47 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 1: say the word regulated, you mean that prices came back 48 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: down to earth a little bit, Yes, they did. Last 49 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 1: year was a good example of of movies selling for 50 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 1: what you would expect them to sell. We're based on 51 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 1: how you model a movie and what you think, you know, 52 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 1: looking at historical comps of what a movie can do. 53 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:08,640 Speaker 1: You know, that's ever, every distributor who's picking up a 54 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 1: movie has their set of numbers that they're they're running 55 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 1: when they're looking at what they can pay for a film, 56 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 1: and typically Netflix and Amazon were always paying you know, 57 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 1: two times that, maybe three times that some of that 58 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: because they're buying out the lifetime of the product and 59 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,920 Speaker 1: so filmmakers and producers and investors will never have the 60 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 1: opportunity for upside and so they're compensating them for that. 61 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: Um But yeah, there was you know there it's going 62 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 1: to regulate regulated last year, it'll regulate more this year 63 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:40,119 Speaker 1: as well. The only kind of wild card this year 64 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 1: is documentaries because this last year, documentaries you know, gross 65 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 1: revenue at the box office that we've never seen over 66 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 1: the last ten years. But before this year, typically we 67 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 1: would expect four or five movies to break two million 68 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 1: of the box office from a documentary standpoint, and this 69 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 1: year you're seeing huge number. There's i mean ten million 70 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: plus on you know, five six seven movies this year. 71 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 1: So the expectation is, uh, the agents and the the 72 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 1: sales as agents will be coming to town with an 73 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 1: expectation to um get much higher value for the documentaries 74 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 1: based on the potential opportunity for docs to explode again 75 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 1: next year. So that's a good question because it seems 76 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:28,279 Speaker 1: like in in Hollywood often, um, you know, there's a 77 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:31,719 Speaker 1: lot of imitation, right, things that work. Studios are eager 78 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 1: to sort of do the same thing that worked for 79 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:37,920 Speaker 1: someone else. How do you, you know, balance the fact 80 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 1: that documentaries seem to be doing quite well right now, uh, 81 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: with maybe the risk that that's something of an anomaly, right, 82 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 1: that maybe there were just a few projects that really 83 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 1: resonated with people that it's not some kind of larger 84 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:56,480 Speaker 1: popular embrace of that medium. When you're making your decisions, well, 85 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 1: I think that's what you have to do. You can't 86 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:01,840 Speaker 1: get caught up in the the you know, the buzz 87 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 1: and the business of it all. You have to stay 88 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:06,840 Speaker 1: true to what you think a film is going to do. 89 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:10,039 Speaker 1: It's it's tough because suddenly you're looking at a list 90 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 1: of comps from the last year that are generating you know, 91 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 1: five to ten million dollars at the box office, and 92 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 1: those always are these outliers that come into play when 93 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 1: you're you know, modeling out what you think you can 94 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:23,160 Speaker 1: pay for a film. But our philosophy, I mean, we 95 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 1: we're not We're not spending at the upper echelon um 96 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:28,279 Speaker 1: to where we're going to drop, you know, millions and 97 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:30,799 Speaker 1: millions of dollars on a documentary. It's just the reality 98 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:34,279 Speaker 1: because you have to plan for the scenario where it 99 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 1: doesn't resonate. There have been films in the past we've 100 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 1: picked up um documentaries that we thought were very theatrical 101 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 1: that didn't necessarily deliver in that window the way we'd expected. 102 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:46,839 Speaker 1: And you know, if you if you overspend in that scenario, 103 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 1: it can really ruin your year, and you you know, 104 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: you just have to be cognizant and careful about how 105 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:58,039 Speaker 1: how aggressive you get. What about the slate on paper 106 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 1: and obviously a lot of time as you go into 107 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 1: these festivals and you think, oh, these are going to 108 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 1: be the movies that really deliver. Maybe it's because they 109 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:08,279 Speaker 1: have a big star, they have a director who's who's 110 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 1: proven themselves in the past, and you know, lo and behold, 111 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 1: there's some surprise that that you never saw coming, that 112 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 1: that starts some kind of bidding more. But on paper, 113 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 1: what do you think about UM this year selection? Do? 114 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 1: Do these films look commercial? Compelling? What? What are your 115 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 1: sort of impressions? I think with respect to the narrative 116 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 1: films that are at the festival this year, there's there's 117 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 1: a good handful of commercial projects. I think, UM Late Night, 118 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 1: which is the Mini Kaling film. Um, we've been tracking 119 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:40,479 Speaker 1: for some time. We read the script, it's a very 120 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 1: commercial film. UM, Emma Thompson, I mean is in there 121 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 1: in that film as well? It's a it's a great 122 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 1: cast of characters and you know, if it delivers, it 123 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:52,720 Speaker 1: could could be a big sick esque um, maybe not 124 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: that big, but I think it has the potential to 125 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 1: attract studios who are looking for additional content. You know, 126 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 1: I could see that if it works, that's a movie 127 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 1: that goes for you know, four to six million in 128 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 1: domestic MG, and that potentially goes you know, maybe that 129 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 1: is an Amazon, maybe that's a lions Gate. Perhaps that's 130 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 1: a paramount if it's at that level. The funny and 131 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 1: sad thing. At the same time, as you know, we 132 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 1: say we were we're looking for movies that are um, 133 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 1: we're passionate about that are really going to deliver. But 134 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 1: also if they're perfect, they're probably going to be at 135 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 1: the level of expense that a studio would suddenly jump into. 136 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 1: So you know, you you're always looking for the movies 137 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 1: that are not perfect. Like we have this joke where 138 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 1: when we're watching films at festivals that are comedies, especially 139 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 1: a we don't laugh because we don't want to laugh 140 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 1: and contribute to the overall perception in a in an 141 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:53,559 Speaker 1: audience with buyers that the movie is amazing and every 142 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: laugh costs us more money. So it's like you kind 143 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 1: of live in this world of like it's it's really good, 144 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 1: but it's not amazing gonna cost this, It's not gonna 145 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 1: cost that um. But anyway, so Late Night is one 146 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 1: of those examples of it's for sure going to be 147 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 1: a commercial film. I think there are there are new filmmakers, 148 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 1: so new producers and new filmmakers bringing content to Sundance. 149 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 1: That um, they've gone through the Sundance Labs and we've 150 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 1: been aware of these titles for some time and they've 151 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 1: kind of made it through over the last three years 152 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 1: finally to to green light into you know, physical production. 153 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 1: There's a film called Wolf Hour with Naomi Watts originally 154 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 1: with Jennifer Connolly. This was a film that has made 155 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:34,840 Speaker 1: it through the labs for some time and said in 156 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:39,200 Speaker 1: the seventies and could be a good performance for Naomi. Um. 157 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: There's a film and I'm gonna and it's horrible on 158 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 1: spacing on the name, it's um. Alec Baldwin is in it. 159 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 1: Judith light Um. It's a kind of a New York 160 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 1: based comedy about two sisters who find out that their 161 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 1: mother is still alive and she's a soap opera actress. 162 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 1: That's another one that went through the Sundance Labs that um. 163 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 1: We've read the script we know that the talent and 164 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:01,560 Speaker 1: we you know, kind of been waiting to see what 165 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 1: was gonna happen with that. Um, I'm trying to think 166 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:07,319 Speaker 1: across the board with some of the other films that 167 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,720 Speaker 1: are there. There's not there's not a huge amount of 168 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:13,840 Speaker 1: like big sick type films this year, but I think 169 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 1: that the the slate of films is a little broader 170 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 1: um than last year. Last year felt to me personally, 171 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 1: um like, um, it was very much a response to 172 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 1: kind of what was going on in our world and 173 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 1: in the country, and um, you know some of the 174 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 1: issues that I think were present in representation of women 175 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 1: and minorities and African Americans. I mean, you saw on 176 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:41,319 Speaker 1: the heels of Moonlight winning Best Picture, there was the 177 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:44,679 Speaker 1: Sundance slate was very kind of it was darker. It 178 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 1: was kind of holding up a mirror to society and 179 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:49,960 Speaker 1: what was going on in a way that there was 180 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 1: a lot of powerful films, but when it came down 181 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 1: to what film is going to generate money at the 182 00:09:56,920 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 1: box office, there were less of those movies. There were 183 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: films that came out of Sundance last year that, um, 184 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 1: we're great and critically acclaimed, but just didn't connect. And 185 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: I think that that's an example of audiences, you know, 186 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 1: having had experienced that one great film the previous year 187 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 1: that filled a certain genre um or spoke to them 188 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 1: in a certain way, and then there were three or 189 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 1: four of them the following year, and people just you know, 190 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:24,440 Speaker 1: reached a point of where of saturation with respect to that. 191 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 1: And I think you'll you're gonna see a lot of 192 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:29,960 Speaker 1: docks this year go for a significant amount of money 193 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:32,199 Speaker 1: and they're not all going to delivered. UM. Cameron Crowe 194 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 1: has a documentary he's produced UM that I think if 195 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 1: the music doc that that could do well. There's a 196 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:42,080 Speaker 1: UM there's a doc called the I think the Amazing 197 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 1: Jonathan about this kind of quirky magician. His story sounds 198 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 1: like it could be fun. UM. You know, Apollo eleven 199 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:53,560 Speaker 1: is there, which is already being distributed by Neon UM. 200 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:56,679 Speaker 1: And we saw we saw footage of that almost a 201 00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:58,840 Speaker 1: year ago. We were you know, it came down to 202 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 1: I believe Neon and us looking at that movie and 203 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 1: that's the spectacular film where they have all of this 204 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 1: amazing footage from the Apollo eleven missions that people have 205 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:12,079 Speaker 1: never seen that were UM remastered in four K. I 206 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 1: mean it's it's it's an experience. So that's the other thing. 207 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:18,080 Speaker 1: There's a lot of movies that already have UM distribution 208 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:21,719 Speaker 1: across Netflix across and Neon has that title. I think 209 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:25,440 Speaker 1: has three titles. We have Birds of Passage there. So 210 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 1: there you that becomes the trend that we see more 211 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 1: and more. We saw it can this last year is 212 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 1: when you look at the films that are available, there's 213 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 1: a higher percentage of films that are already spoken for 214 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 1: UM and so just it limits the titles that are available. 215 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:42,560 Speaker 1: But I think it it kind of it all balances 216 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:44,320 Speaker 1: out in the wash at the end of the day 217 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 1: because you have less streaming services, less companies that are 218 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:50,680 Speaker 1: looking for products are already producing or have already pre 219 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 1: acquired those those films. Um. You were talking about a 220 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:58,199 Speaker 1: movie like Late Night, Um, that that seems very commercial, 221 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 1: that could sell for four to six million dollars. UM. 222 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 1: When you when you purchase something for that price, what 223 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 1: do you actually need to do with the box office 224 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:10,960 Speaker 1: in order to make that back? And when you factor 225 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,679 Speaker 1: in marketing and other kinds of costs, well, um, you know, 226 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:18,559 Speaker 1: when we look at the numbers behind acquiring a movie, 227 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 1: we're looking at all the windows were attributing a certain 228 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 1: dollar amount to you know, you're making the box office right, 229 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:30,320 Speaker 1: so you can calculate that Typically your SPoD your pay 230 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:34,080 Speaker 1: one deals are tied to a percentage of the box office, 231 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 1: So you can calculate if you believe, based on comps 232 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 1: that that four million dollar pickup is going to do 233 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 1: eight million at the box office, then you're probably gonna 234 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 1: do in your first pay window of that number. Um 235 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:49,679 Speaker 1: you look at comps on digital and cable, the ancillary 236 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 1: pieces at the end of the day. From our perspective, 237 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 1: and we look at a film and a P and 238 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 1: L of a movie where we're hoping to target somewhere 239 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 1: in like um net profit range. So we use our comps, 240 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 1: we map it out. We you know, we be put 241 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:06,679 Speaker 1: in there what we're going to spend on P and A, 242 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 1: but we think it takes I mean typically in the industry, 243 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:12,120 Speaker 1: the modest way of thinking about it is, if you 244 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 1: are expecting eight million at the box office, you probably 245 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:16,679 Speaker 1: need to spend close to eight million to make that 246 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:20,600 Speaker 1: in in your box office. We've been fortunate and some 247 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 1: movies in the past where word of mouth really is significant, 248 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:25,960 Speaker 1: like a Hunt for the Wilder People. I don't know 249 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 1: that we've we've shared it before, but I don't mind 250 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 1: sharing it. I mean, we spent one point two million 251 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 1: on P and A for that movie and generated close 252 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 1: to five million of the box office. Like when you 253 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:36,959 Speaker 1: can do that, that's a word of mouth film. It's 254 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 1: it's kind of tough to do that. I mean, it's 255 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 1: it doesn't happen often. But where you you can spend 256 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 1: so modestly, then you're in you're in an amazing shape. 257 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 1: But typically it's you know, spend eight to make eight, 258 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: and so you're just you have to build out all 259 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 1: those numbers and ensure that you're seeing you know, you 260 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:55,080 Speaker 1: believe we do you know a low base and high 261 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 1: case scenario. Where do we think that base case scenario is? 262 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: And and then that tells us what we can spend. 263 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 1: And have you found that that when you sort of 264 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 1: map out the potential lifespan of a film that you 265 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 1: require one of these festivals, is it pretty accurate? I mean, 266 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 1: are you you know? It's um, It's it's tough to say, 267 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 1: I mean, um, more often than not, it's tough. It's 268 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 1: I would say, probably, you know we're building a slate. 269 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 1: So when we look at, you know, the eight to 270 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 1: ten theatricals were acquiring a year. If we've been conservative 271 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 1: and we've we've matched, we've kind of locked to that 272 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 1: base case once some are gonna over perform, some are 273 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 1: gonna underperform. And generally, at the end of the day, 274 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 1: unless you have a big failure or a huge success, 275 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:45,880 Speaker 1: your your singles and doubles maybe overperform and your your 276 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: home runs, don't. It kind of balances out on a 277 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 1: title by title basis. You know, do those numbers? How 278 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 1: close are we do those original expectations? If I don't 279 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 1: think anybody's anybody's great at it. It's all instinct and comps. 280 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 1: Maybe sixty percent of the time, six seventy percent of 281 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 1: the time. Are you in the neighborhood plus or minus? 282 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 1: You know of the number, but it's just things you know, like, 283 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 1: for example, we picked up the Hummingbird Project at Toronto 284 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 1: and UM for it's a great movie, very modest MG, 285 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 1: and we haven't even released the movie yet, And some 286 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 1: of the ancillary windows we've already secured are above and 287 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 1: beyond what we've spent to get the movie. So we know, 288 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 1: going into a movie like that. Wow, we the first 289 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 1: pay window was so significant for that film because of 290 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: the cast with Salamahayak and Jesse Eisenberg and scars Guard that, Um, 291 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 1: we're feeling great going into that movie because you know, 292 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 1: spend P and A is basically the only thing we 293 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 1: have to kind of recoup with all the other windows. 294 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 1: So sometimes you just you you luck out in a 295 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 1: way you never expected. I mean, the movies that we 296 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 1: distribute from Taycho with TV, which is what we do 297 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 1: in the Shadows and Hunt for the Wilder People, these 298 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 1: movies were very modest pickups. They've you know, collectively probably 299 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:02,240 Speaker 1: made more money the two of those movies and any 300 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 1: any other film that we have in our slate. Um collectively, 301 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 1: they probably generated ten to twenty million dollars in net 302 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 1: revenue um because they become they become these word of 303 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 1: mouth cult classics. And so you know, when you find 304 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 1: those films, as many people have found this year, when 305 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 1: you see some of the box office for these indies films, 306 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 1: you you double down and you you keep building on that. 307 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 1: One thing I always thought was really interesting about what 308 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 1: you guys do at the Orchard is that you believe 309 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 1: in transparency when it comes to how you make money, 310 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 1: you actually share them publicly on certain films. Why did 311 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 1: you decide to do that? I mean, nobody else seems 312 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 1: remotely interested in sharing that kind of information. Well, it's it, 313 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 1: guess it's it could be dangerous for some. I mean 314 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 1: the origin, you know, the origins of the Orchard UM 315 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: first and foremost are based in a twenty year history 316 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 1: of global music distribution, where labels and artists are it's 317 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 1: very important to them to understand how they're how they're 318 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 1: sorry their films and movies, how their calm, their content, 319 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:06,920 Speaker 1: their albums, their songs, that tracks are performing. And so 320 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 1: from a very early stage that DNA was built into 321 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:12,679 Speaker 1: the Orchard to share and be transparent. And we have 322 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 1: engineers have built these these back end dashboards that allow 323 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 1: those those clients to see in real time how money 324 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:21,919 Speaker 1: is being spent against their films and where you know, 325 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 1: where the money is coming from the digital platforms. So 326 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:27,119 Speaker 1: for us, when we really through gasoline on the fire 327 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 1: for building the film division back and four team, we 328 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 1: wanted to do the same and what we heard from 329 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:36,200 Speaker 1: filmmakers was one of the major frustrations was the two 330 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:39,200 Speaker 1: things UM they have no had no idea how their 331 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:41,680 Speaker 1: movie was doing when they were going to recoup the 332 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:46,199 Speaker 1: recoupment of the investment profitability, no no awareness whatsoever. They 333 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 1: would get kind of a statement in the mail a 334 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:50,879 Speaker 1: year later and had to call somebody to figure out 335 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 1: what it even meant. Um and collaboration, that's the other 336 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 1: thing that I'll talk about in a sec But for us, 337 00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:59,239 Speaker 1: we heard that loud and clear, and so you know, 338 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:01,399 Speaker 1: we doubled down on it. And so, you know, a 339 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:03,680 Speaker 1: couple of years ago as a you know, we've continued 340 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:07,640 Speaker 1: to internally build and um this dashboard in the back 341 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 1: end that not only shows filmmakers what they're making in 342 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 1: real time, but does this kind of projection of here 343 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 1: the contracted dollars. We know we're coming we have a 344 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:18,160 Speaker 1: deal at Netflix for the next three years. This much 345 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 1: money is coming in. Here's where we think profitability is 346 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:24,919 Speaker 1: going to happen. And this is all kind of you know, 347 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:29,119 Speaker 1: under under the main the guys of what we initially 348 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 1: green with the movie at what we thought it was 349 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:32,639 Speaker 1: gonna do. So they can see all of these things 350 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:36,399 Speaker 1: and and we're super We're super transparent about everything. We 351 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:39,440 Speaker 1: I'm always surprised when I hear from filmmakers. We'll get 352 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 1: an offer for a pay one license, and we'll call 353 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: them up and we'll say, we have these three platforms. 354 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:47,879 Speaker 1: It's HBO and it's Netflix, and it's Amazon, and here's 355 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 1: why we would want to go with this one and 356 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:52,720 Speaker 1: here's what it means. And filmmakers say, we never get 357 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:55,200 Speaker 1: calls about this. Nobody. They just call us up and say, 358 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 1: your movie is gonna be on direct TV and that's 359 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:01,959 Speaker 1: where it's going. And so for us, it's it requires 360 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:04,119 Speaker 1: a lot of time and effort, but at the end 361 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 1: of the day, I think the effort far outweighs the 362 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:11,120 Speaker 1: downside of being honest with them about what's going on, 363 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:13,920 Speaker 1: and that that's the one problem I think that most 364 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 1: filmmakers have when they come out of experiences. A bad 365 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: experience with the distributor is typically it's colored by a 366 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:24,120 Speaker 1: lack of communication, lack of transparency, and a lack of 367 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 1: um aligned expectations. You know, if you don't when people 368 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 1: ask for an awards campaign, and this is here's a 369 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 1: great example. We went to Cannon, we picked up Birds 370 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:35,159 Speaker 1: of Passage and we said, Birds of Passage, this is 371 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:39,920 Speaker 1: our our focus. For an awards campaign. Um, we told 372 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 1: that to the filmmakers and we said to them, we're 373 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 1: not going to pick up another movie to compete with that, 374 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: that we are committed to this plan. And then we 375 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 1: saw l Angel or if I'm being good with the accent, 376 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 1: l ang Hell is what they say in Argentina. And 377 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:57,240 Speaker 1: they came to us and I said, I love the film, 378 00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 1: that we already committed to Birds of Passage the only 379 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:01,879 Speaker 1: way we would distribute it as you need to be 380 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:04,200 Speaker 1: aware that we are not doing an awards campaign. We're 381 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:06,720 Speaker 1: doing it for birds And if you're okay with that, 382 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:08,919 Speaker 1: knowing going in we're not doing X Y and Z, 383 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 1: we're not spending X Y and Z, then I need 384 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:13,159 Speaker 1: to go back to the Birds of Passage team and 385 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 1: make sure they're okay with it. That's just how how 386 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:18,480 Speaker 1: we approach it. We find that it just at the 387 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 1: end of the day, is a better way to interact 388 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 1: with folks. And El Angel was very appreciative and they 389 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:25,720 Speaker 1: still wanted us to distribute their film, and the Birds 390 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:29,640 Speaker 1: of Passage filmmakers were were happy for us to help 391 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 1: them out in that way, and that that kind of 392 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:34,440 Speaker 1: is like an example of how how we deal with 393 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:36,920 Speaker 1: our filmmakers and it, as I said, it's it takes 394 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:38,479 Speaker 1: a lot of time and effort, and sometimes we look 395 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:40,879 Speaker 1: at ourselves and we say, oh my gosh, we we 396 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 1: have to do how many calls this week to socialize this, this, 397 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:48,479 Speaker 1: this and this. But it's a better experience. UM. So 398 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:52,199 Speaker 1: you were talking about coming on board and I believe 399 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:56,879 Speaker 1: to help launch this film enterprise for for the Orchard. 400 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:01,400 Speaker 1: Why did the Orchard feel there was an opportunity here. 401 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 1: It's not as if there have been a lot of 402 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:07,680 Speaker 1: success stories and the indie film space. What what did 403 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:11,760 Speaker 1: they see as a a you know, possible source of profits. Well, 404 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 1: I think they had they had witnessed the experience that 405 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:17,159 Speaker 1: the music the music artists had had with them as 406 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:19,720 Speaker 1: a company. You know, this is this is a global 407 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:23,639 Speaker 1: distribution network. This is not we're going to handle this 408 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:26,440 Speaker 1: piecemeal and that piecemeal. It was the infrastructure was there 409 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 1: in such a significant way, UM. And the writing was 410 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:30,919 Speaker 1: on the wall with respect to the changing of the 411 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 1: windows and the new platforms of opportunity with UM with 412 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:38,439 Speaker 1: video content, with film and television that they felt like 413 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 1: if we could as a company, we could offer that 414 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 1: similar life cycle. You know planning and support for content 415 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:47,920 Speaker 1: that there was a value there. If you look at 416 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 1: the landscape of indie distributors, there's very few any distributors 417 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 1: that actually handle from A to Z. You know, some 418 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 1: indie distributors will handle marketing and releasing of their theatricals 419 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 1: and then a studio takes their digital and another company 420 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:05,399 Speaker 1: takes their physical. We handle aside from us. You know. 421 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:07,959 Speaker 1: The only thing we don't do internally is we do 422 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:10,439 Speaker 1: work with Lionsgate on our bigger titles to release them 423 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 1: through their DVD infrastructure because we just at this point 424 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:17,199 Speaker 1: in the DVD life cycle um that that business is 425 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 1: not growing and so it was something we didn't feel 426 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:22,639 Speaker 1: like we needed to build but internally as a company 427 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:26,160 Speaker 1: for us to be able to offer filmmakers and content 428 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,359 Speaker 1: creators of that end to end opportunity where it's not 429 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:31,919 Speaker 1: a different team every six months as a new window 430 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:35,600 Speaker 1: opens up, it's the same team. They're leveraging all the 431 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 1: great work and marketing materials and assets and critical acclaim 432 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 1: from the first window for the second window and that 433 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:45,399 Speaker 1: digital windows. You know, success is being leveraged for you know, 434 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 1: when it's on av ODD services and so it just 435 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:52,200 Speaker 1: it's a seamless opportunity, and we felt that that would 436 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:54,680 Speaker 1: be something that folks would be you know, interested in, 437 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:59,840 Speaker 1: and they happen. Has it been um more difficult than 438 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 1: you expected to to get into this space? I mean, what, 439 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:06,920 Speaker 1: what are some things that surprised you when it came 440 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:10,040 Speaker 1: to really making it a name for yourself? Well? I 441 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 1: think when we so the first Sundance we all went 442 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:15,879 Speaker 1: to after we kind of you know again, before I 443 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 1: came in, we were doing some level of you know, 444 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:21,439 Speaker 1: digital distribution just for you know, other companies like the 445 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:24,360 Speaker 1: Scholastics or the NBA's or the Red Bulls. But um, 446 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,640 Speaker 1: there was no theatrical component. The level of the content 447 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 1: or the portfolio was candidly and there wasn't much there. Um. 448 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:34,400 Speaker 1: And so when we went into Sundance in two thousand fifteen, 449 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: you know, we I always joked like there was the 450 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 1: new kid on the block tax because you know, you're 451 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,200 Speaker 1: beening on a movie and what can you what do 452 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:44,920 Speaker 1: you have to show for it? What can you point 453 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 1: to to say, hey, trust us on our reputation, you know, 454 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:50,479 Speaker 1: give us the movie for X because look at all 455 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 1: the other great stuff we've done at that that scenario 456 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,639 Speaker 1: and that and that festival that wasn't there, so we 457 00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,119 Speaker 1: had to pay you know, the new kid tax on 458 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:01,200 Speaker 1: a certain set of movie ease, and then that gave 459 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 1: us the content that we needed to deliver and show 460 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:07,159 Speaker 1: people over that year what we could do in the 461 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,640 Speaker 1: level of capabilities that we had. And then suddenly you're 462 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:12,879 Speaker 1: you know what's happened over the years is you build 463 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 1: these relationships. You you know, this producer now is this 464 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 1: new movie, This director has his has his next film. 465 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 1: People talk and at the end of the day, you know, 466 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 1: I always say this to people who were pitching on 467 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,120 Speaker 1: wanting to distribute their film. You can you can literally 468 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:28,400 Speaker 1: throw a rock and hit somebody in the space now 469 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 1: in the space who's worked with us, and go talk 470 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:33,479 Speaker 1: to him. They'll tell you what the experience has been like. 471 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:37,200 Speaker 1: And typically we even because we're not only doing theatricals, 472 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 1: we're releasing, you know, we're acquiring somewhere like thirty to 473 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,200 Speaker 1: forty films, like films like The Party's Just Beginning or 474 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,119 Speaker 1: Paul Eberstein's um Song of Back and Neck, which just 475 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 1: came out last week. Um, these are day and date releases, 476 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:52,119 Speaker 1: so they're you know, new York and l A or 477 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 1: ten city day and dates. We're picking up thirty to 478 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 1: forty of those. Were distributing another couple of hundred films 479 00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:59,880 Speaker 1: on digital every year. So what's funny is you can 480 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,760 Speaker 1: instantly see people who are producing smaller films that we 481 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 1: may not put out in theaters and they want the brand, 482 00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: they want the logo on the front of their movie. 483 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 1: Like there's a level of UM, awareness, UM and respect 484 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 1: based on the brand and the kind of movies we 485 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 1: put out. And so it's fun to see. So how 486 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 1: would you define that brand? What what makes the Orchard 487 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 1: different than Sony Pictures Classics or Bleaker Street or Neon. 488 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:29,400 Speaker 1: What what is your Orchard film? Well, I'd say, um, 489 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 1: first and foremost weird, championing, championing, UM, the new voices 490 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:37,639 Speaker 1: in film. If you look at a slate of our films, 491 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 1: typically one third to half of those films or new filmmakers, 492 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:45,440 Speaker 1: new voices, um, you know Bart Layton's American Animals, his 493 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 1: first narrative film, Tycho with TV Yoakim. True. I mean 494 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,040 Speaker 1: there are filmmakers who, um, they're coming to us in 495 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:54,879 Speaker 1: their first you know with Yochim. His first English language 496 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,960 Speaker 1: film was louder than bombs. Um, we like playing that 497 00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 1: in that space of to be the first experience with 498 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 1: this filmmaker, and let's hope that we do such a 499 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:05,800 Speaker 1: great job that we have an opportunity to keep building 500 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,239 Speaker 1: on that with them. By always my metaphor is like, 501 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 1: we're not we're not buying the star pitcher of the 502 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,480 Speaker 1: baseball team. We're buying the rookies, and we're hoping to 503 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 1: build those rookies into star pitchers. Sometimes those star pitchers 504 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:21,720 Speaker 1: will then go to another larger company, which typically happens. 505 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:24,359 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, Tycho Tyka does well on his 506 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,440 Speaker 1: smaller movies and he directs thor Ragnarok, Like, these things happen, 507 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:31,439 Speaker 1: and that's okay. But we're very focused on building those relationships, 508 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 1: building a family of of talent that, um, we're there 509 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,360 Speaker 1: in the beginning. Movies that we pick up oftentimes they're 510 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 1: they're not easy. You can't just put them in a box. 511 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 1: Like a movie like American Animals is not an easy sell. 512 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 1: But the craft of it is so amazing and so 513 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:49,480 Speaker 1: entertaining that we like the challenge of trying to figure 514 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:53,119 Speaker 1: out how to make audiences aware of these films and 515 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:56,399 Speaker 1: and share our passion on those films. We typically don't 516 00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 1: um focus on older demo content. If even if you 517 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,040 Speaker 1: look at something like The Hero with Sam Elliott, it's 518 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 1: still had a kind of a youthful energy to it 519 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,280 Speaker 1: with the rest of the cast with you know, it's 520 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 1: a little experimental actually, you know, you know, with Nick 521 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:13,880 Speaker 1: Offerman and and so um. You know. So there are 522 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 1: companies that are very you know, there are movies that 523 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:18,400 Speaker 1: you can look at, you can see at a festival 524 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:20,399 Speaker 1: and you know they're going to do just fine. They 525 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:22,520 Speaker 1: have a certain level of cast. If they're a little 526 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 1: bit older in their demo, that's those are the folks 527 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,400 Speaker 1: who they go to movies all day long, you know 528 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,159 Speaker 1: that like something like a UM you know, like The 529 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 1: Wife with Glenn Close or you know, some of the 530 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 1: films that Bleaker puts out there. They are solid cast driven. 531 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 1: They you just know that they're going to work in 532 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 1: that space. We UM, we recognize that opportunity. But I 533 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:48,480 Speaker 1: think we were a bit younger in our sensibilities and 534 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 1: UM and we like to challenge ourselves if we're gonna 535 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 1: spend all of our waking hours focusing on these films, 536 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 1: which we do. UM. We want to. We want to 537 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 1: be excited about the both the opera tunity. We like 538 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 1: the David versus goliafe mentality of let's you know, find 539 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:08,480 Speaker 1: the underdog and and let it, you know, find its audience. UM. 540 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 1: You know, every once in a while we'll pick up 541 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:15,160 Speaker 1: something something super commercial. UM. But you know, that's that's 542 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:16,960 Speaker 1: kind of like when people talk about the orchards and 543 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 1: they talk about the films. They say, the one thing 544 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:20,919 Speaker 1: that we know is when I see the logo at 545 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,560 Speaker 1: the front of a movie that it's a quality film. 546 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 1: It's got you know, a certain level of craft to it, 547 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 1: and I know that I'm going to, you know, at 548 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:30,760 Speaker 1: least walk away. I mean, not love the film, but 549 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,600 Speaker 1: I'll recognize the fact that it's well made and there's 550 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:37,080 Speaker 1: there's an audience for it. Um. For the most part, 551 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 1: it seems like most of your movies are picked up 552 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:43,520 Speaker 1: at at festivals. UM. A lot of companies have felt 553 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 1: that that's kind of a bit of a dangerous strategy 554 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 1: that they can end up getting involved in bidding wars 555 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 1: and losing their shirts, so they've gone into producing their 556 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:56,080 Speaker 1: own content. UM. Are you going to do that? Are 557 00:28:56,120 --> 00:29:00,400 Speaker 1: you doing more of that? Well? We did last summer 558 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 1: we produced we funded the whole production of a film 559 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,040 Speaker 1: called Under the Eiffel Tower, which is you know, it's 560 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:10,240 Speaker 1: Gary Cole, it's Matt Walsh, it's reads Uh read Um 561 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 1: Read Scott from Veep, Judith gold Wretch from the Overnight Um. 562 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,840 Speaker 1: It's a light romantic comedy um with a lot of 563 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,240 Speaker 1: comedy talent. That was an example of something where the 564 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 1: script came to us, the cast was all in place, 565 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 1: and you know, if we were going to a festival 566 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:27,480 Speaker 1: and trying to pick up that film, we probably would 567 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 1: have paid more for it versus funding it and then 568 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 1: having all worldwide rights on it. So now that's a 569 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 1: film that we'll put out in February day and date 570 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 1: with theaters and our own internal team sells it to 571 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:41,280 Speaker 1: markets across the world. But I'll say that being said 572 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,840 Speaker 1: that it is a risk, even pre buys or a risk. 573 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,360 Speaker 1: I mean, we've we there was a point in time, 574 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 1: especially when we were going to the festivals and these 575 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 1: bidding wars were out of control because spud services were 576 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 1: also trying to fill their coffers as well, where we said, 577 00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 1: look we maybe maybe we need to get into some 578 00:29:58,400 --> 00:29:59,960 Speaker 1: of these movies a little bit earlier, so we don't 579 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,000 Speaker 1: have to get into these bidding wars, and in some 580 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 1: scenarios that those that worked out, and in some scenarios 581 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:07,640 Speaker 1: some of those movies, when you finally finally got to 582 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 1: see the film, it wasn't necessarily the film that we 583 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:12,960 Speaker 1: had thought we were going to get. And so for us, 584 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:15,600 Speaker 1: especially at this point in time in the industry and 585 00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 1: where things are at um, where there's less there's there's 586 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 1: enough content to go around finished content, our focus is 587 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 1: definitely more on the finished product space now there will be. 588 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 1: If Takoa Tit came to me tomorrow and said, I'm 589 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 1: ready to do the sequel to what we do in 590 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 1: The Shadows, we'd write them a check. If you know, 591 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:36,520 Speaker 1: there's certain filmmakers that we know what we're getting, and well, 592 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,959 Speaker 1: we would do that. But I think from approaching like 593 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 1: a brand new filmmaker with who's unproven, that's looking for 594 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 1: someone to come in and fund the entire production, I 595 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 1: think for us it's probably not what we're going to 596 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 1: be doing. So I've always been sort of interested in 597 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 1: one of these all night bidding wars that you hear about, 598 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:58,040 Speaker 1: and they're always sort of breathlessly and reported, what is 599 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:00,160 Speaker 1: it actually like to be kind of in the room. 600 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:04,040 Speaker 1: And and also you know, at some point you have 601 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:07,080 Speaker 1: to be rational and maybe you just absolutely love a movie, 602 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 1: but you realize that the bidding has gotten out of 603 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 1: control and you have to walk away. So what is 604 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:15,880 Speaker 1: that feeling like too, when you and you have to say, 605 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:20,200 Speaker 1: you know, I'm out. Yeah, it's it's it can be frustrating. 606 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 1: I mean, typically you see the movie that you love, 607 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,840 Speaker 1: the movie, you run back to your house, you start 608 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 1: running the numbers you're running. I mean, for us, we're 609 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:32,080 Speaker 1: running the numbers we're doing the comps were quickly because 610 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:36,240 Speaker 1: if it's Friday night of Sundance, you want the filmmakers 611 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:40,320 Speaker 1: to see that offer that night, because everybody, you know, 612 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 1: on the other side of the of the this whole experience, 613 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,400 Speaker 1: filmmakers watch the offers come in and if it takes 614 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:47,920 Speaker 1: three days for somebody to come in on it with 615 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,480 Speaker 1: an offer, they may not they may be less interested 616 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 1: because what looks like it took them too long. They 617 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 1: weren't that passionate about it. So you know, you want 618 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,240 Speaker 1: to get in an offer quickly. Typically for us, we 619 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:00,080 Speaker 1: just have a set of you know, corporate approvals, we 620 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,960 Speaker 1: have to go through at a certain level. Um. And 621 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,200 Speaker 1: then you know, the conversation that always happens is the agents. 622 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:08,719 Speaker 1: I mean, it's so it's maddening at times because it's 623 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:10,640 Speaker 1: like buying a house, a real estate. You don't know 624 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 1: you only can you know gauge what they're telling you 625 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 1: as the truth. Um. And there's always like a number 626 00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 1: that you have to be at if you want to 627 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:21,040 Speaker 1: get in the room and pitch the filmmakers. So it's 628 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 1: like you send an offer and they say no, it's 629 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,400 Speaker 1: it's seven figures, or you won't even get a chance 630 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:28,000 Speaker 1: to talk to the filmmakers. And that's that's where we win. 631 00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 1: That's where anybody wins a movie is getting in the 632 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:32,520 Speaker 1: room and talking about how you see the film and 633 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,480 Speaker 1: what you're gonna do with it. So there's that trying 634 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 1: to get in the room. Then there's you know, in 635 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:41,080 Speaker 1: the room pitching the filmmakers and the producers on what 636 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:43,640 Speaker 1: what you're gonna do with it. And then eventually after 637 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 1: the pitching happens, then the agents do their thing and 638 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,520 Speaker 1: it becomes you know, back and forth where they're constantly 639 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 1: trying to get that number up as high as they 640 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 1: can and sometimes you may be the higher number. And 641 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:57,960 Speaker 1: I actually like this, Like I I like the scenario 642 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:00,920 Speaker 1: that the filmmakers go with a lower number because of 643 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:03,360 Speaker 1: the filmmaker, because of the company they want to be with. 644 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:05,600 Speaker 1: To me, I'll I'm happy to lose a film that 645 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 1: way every day of the week because that it's not 646 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,520 Speaker 1: just about the dollars. It's about the plan, it's about 647 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,480 Speaker 1: the people, it's about the release that they're going to, 648 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 1: you know, mount for the film. Um. But you know, 649 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:19,760 Speaker 1: there have been many films over the years where it's 650 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,120 Speaker 1: come down to us in another company, and you you're 651 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 1: sometimes you lose it for a hundred thousand dollars because 652 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 1: in the moment to your point, you say, I spend 653 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,160 Speaker 1: as much as I can, I can't go another hundred 654 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:32,480 Speaker 1: And then of course, you know, in hindsight, you watch 655 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:34,960 Speaker 1: these movies that you lost for a hundred thousand dollars 656 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,960 Speaker 1: do eight million of the box office, and you say, shoot, 657 00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:40,560 Speaker 1: like we it's only a hundred grand, like we should 658 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:43,560 Speaker 1: have just you know, but you just it's like eBay, 659 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:45,880 Speaker 1: Like I I don't go on eBay anymore because eBay 660 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 1: for me is a problem. It's you get sucked into 661 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:51,000 Speaker 1: that and you have to you have to know, at 662 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:53,600 Speaker 1: least for us, everybody has this. You have a budget, 663 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:54,800 Speaker 1: you know what your budget is for the year. You 664 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,920 Speaker 1: know how many movies you you need to um to 665 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,200 Speaker 1: buy with that budget, And if you're gonna overspend on one, 666 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 1: you're gonna have to underspend on others. And but it 667 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:07,920 Speaker 1: gets it's it's it's tough, especially if it's Monday or 668 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:11,160 Speaker 1: Tuesday and Sundance. You haven't picked up anything, and now 669 00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:13,960 Speaker 1: you found the here's the movie you want, and the 670 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:15,600 Speaker 1: bidding is getting to a point where it doesn't make 671 00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:17,839 Speaker 1: sense for you. You have to make a call like 672 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:19,400 Speaker 1: what are you gonna do? Where you're gonna get the 673 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 1: rest of your content? But it also seems that sometimes 674 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,560 Speaker 1: the price is sort of an albatross for filmmakers. Like 675 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:29,040 Speaker 1: I always think, like Happy Texas is in every article 676 00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:33,640 Speaker 1: about somebody you know overspending it sundance. Was that actually 677 00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:35,520 Speaker 1: good for them in the end? They may have won 678 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 1: that Sundance, But because the movie underperformed at the box office, 679 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:41,279 Speaker 1: it has sort of a target on its back. I mean, 680 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 1: sometimes it seems very shortsighted of filmmakers too to try 681 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:52,399 Speaker 1: to kind of um artificially goose the price tag. I think. 682 00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:55,800 Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting, nobody knows at Sundance what a 683 00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,480 Speaker 1: film is going to do. We all know those movies 684 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:00,440 Speaker 1: that went from ten to twenty million over the last 685 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 1: couple of years that didn't deliver anywhere near that in 686 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:05,880 Speaker 1: box office. But in the heat of the moment, I 687 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:09,200 Speaker 1: mean all of those movies were great experiences at Sundance. 688 00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:13,399 Speaker 1: They were films that people loved. And I can see, 689 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:15,319 Speaker 1: I can, I get it. I get in the heat 690 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:19,080 Speaker 1: of the moment, I get why movies like you know 691 00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:23,399 Speaker 1: a Patty Cakes or you know, a Big sick Um 692 00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:26,080 Speaker 1: why they go for certain numbers because they have these 693 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:29,120 Speaker 1: great screenings, um, and you just don't know. Again, it's 694 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:33,000 Speaker 1: like it's it's instinct. You know. My philosophy is you 695 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:35,640 Speaker 1: might as well live or die based on your instinct 696 00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:38,879 Speaker 1: and your passion for something, because putting any other kind 697 00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:43,799 Speaker 1: of logic behind why you're choosing a movie, it makes 698 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:45,880 Speaker 1: as much sense as passion or instinct at the end 699 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:48,760 Speaker 1: of the day. And I'd rather fail or succeed based 700 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,719 Speaker 1: on feeling something for a film and then figuring it 701 00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:55,960 Speaker 1: out after versus the alternative. Well, Paul, thank you so 702 00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:58,680 Speaker 1: much for joining us. I really appreciate you coming in 703 00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:01,719 Speaker 1: and sharing your insight. I'll see you at something all right. 704 00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:06,360 Speaker 1: Thanks for the time, thanks for listening. Be sure to 705 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:12,080 Speaker 1: tune in next week for another episode of Strictly Business. Hmmm.