WEBVTT - The Massacre at Tiananmen Square 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.680 Hey, everybody, it's your pals, Josh and Chuck, and we 0:00:03.720 --> 0:00:06.720 wanted to record an intro to this episode because, um, 0:00:06.800 --> 0:00:09.200 when we first recorded it and got it ready to 0:00:09.240 --> 0:00:12.040 publish and edit, um, things were a lot different in 0:00:12.080 --> 0:00:16.280 America because that was like a week ago. Yeah, exactly, 0:00:16.400 --> 0:00:19.959 And I think the events of the past week or 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:23.200 two have taught us that something like this podcast episode 0:00:23.239 --> 0:00:25.680 is more relevant than ever and it just kind of 0:00:25.680 --> 0:00:28.440 worked out that way. Yeah, And we also wanted to 0:00:28.520 --> 0:00:32.159 say that we grieved the death of George Floyd and 0:00:32.200 --> 0:00:35.599 everybody who's ever died unfairly at the hands of the police, 0:00:35.960 --> 0:00:38.760 and we stand with Black Lives Matter and anyone who's 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:42.120 fighting for justice in the United States. Absolutely. So when 0:00:42.159 --> 0:00:45.120 you hear this episode on Tienamen Square and think, well, 0:00:45.120 --> 0:00:47.720 that could never happen much less in the United States, 0:00:48.600 --> 0:00:50.960 be careful because that's the kind of dangerous thinking that 0:00:51.400 --> 0:00:54.200 you can get us all in trouble. And on with 0:00:54.280 --> 0:00:59.120 the show. Welcome to Stuff. You should know a production 0:00:59.160 --> 0:01:07.360 of I heart ratings as how stuff works. Hey, and 0:01:07.400 --> 0:01:10.520 welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark and there's Charles 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:13.720 w Chuck Bryan over there. Uh, and it's just the 0:01:13.760 --> 0:01:16.520 two of us, Chuck and I decided we can make 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:20.080 it if we try just the two of us. Chuckers 0:01:20.120 --> 0:01:25.080 and I. How long did you plan that, buddy? It 0:01:25.200 --> 0:01:28.280 just came pouring right out of my brain through my 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:33.240 mouth and just lay indo with a thud on the desk. Yeah, 0:01:33.440 --> 0:01:37.200 r I p to the great Bill Withers. Oh. I 0:01:37.240 --> 0:01:43.360 was thinking more, um Austin Powers. M hmm, yeah, alright, 0:01:45.160 --> 0:01:49.320 what Austin Powers? He died a long time ago, right, 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:53.240 You got me there for a second, Yes, you did. 0:01:53.360 --> 0:01:55.840 Mike Myers had passed. I thought Mike Myers had passed, 0:01:55.880 --> 0:01:57.640 and then I was like, wait to Dr Evil died? 0:01:57.680 --> 0:02:00.360 I was like, wait, Dr Evil's not real. It was 0:02:00.480 --> 0:02:06.240 really confusing for a second there. Man. So I last 0:02:06.360 --> 0:02:09.000 night did one of the things that I loved doing 0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:11.520 as part of our work, Chuck, which is watched a 0:02:11.639 --> 0:02:15.960 really great documentary, paid for it, but you love that 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:22.000 great There's a really good documentary by Frontline PBS show 0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:27.760 about tank Man, which you probably girl. Tank Man totally 0:02:27.800 --> 0:02:31.840 different kind of thing. This is not Lori Petty. This 0:02:31.880 --> 0:02:34.480 is an unknown person who no one, as far as 0:02:34.520 --> 0:02:38.200 anyone knows, knows their name. But even if you're familiar 0:02:38.240 --> 0:02:42.240 with tank Man, just the name. You've probably if you 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:45.640 live outside of China, seen this picture. It's a picture 0:02:45.639 --> 0:02:48.799 of just as a lone man um wearing a white 0:02:49.160 --> 0:02:52.160 kind of dress shirt and black pants, holding a couple 0:02:52.160 --> 0:02:56.040 of shopping bags to the side, staring down a column 0:02:56.160 --> 0:03:00.160 of heavy tanks that he has stopped single handedly just 0:03:00.200 --> 0:03:03.200 by standing in front of him. Yeah. I mean it's 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:07.600 one of those uh, indelible images that if you were 0:03:07.639 --> 0:03:10.919 you know, it still resonates obviously, but if you were, um, 0:03:10.960 --> 0:03:15.360 you know, cognizant of the news in nine then you 0:03:15.400 --> 0:03:18.320 could not escape this image or forget it. Yeah, And 0:03:18.360 --> 0:03:22.120 I mean what you were close to around eighteen or so, 0:03:22.120 --> 0:03:24.160 so I'm sure this really had a big impact on you. 0:03:24.240 --> 0:03:27.200 And it was going on right yeah, I mean just 0:03:27.200 --> 0:03:31.040 just had graduated high school, so like this must have 0:03:31.040 --> 0:03:33.120 really kind of raised the hackles on the back of 0:03:33.120 --> 0:03:35.120 your neck and gotten you pretty worked up like the 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:37.880 rest of the world, I would guess. Yeah, I remember 0:03:37.880 --> 0:03:40.600 it being kind of one of the first big political 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:45.160 events that uh got my head out of my butt. Yeah, 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:47.520 it did that for a lot of people too. I mean, 0:03:47.560 --> 0:03:50.400 like what happened that that day or those days like 0:03:50.480 --> 0:03:56.440 think June three and fourth of nine, the communist regime 0:03:56.560 --> 0:04:00.440 that had a iron grip on the country and still 0:04:00.480 --> 0:04:04.680 does today, maybe even more so today, Um almost fell. 0:04:04.880 --> 0:04:09.520 It was almost toppled by popular uprising, and to stamp 0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:12.760 it out, the government went to the most extreme measures possible, 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:19.680 which was commanding the army to murder citizens. Unarmed, peacefully 0:04:19.720 --> 0:04:24.080 protesting citizens were gunned down in the streets like like 0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:28.440 like they were enemy combatants, basically in the in the 0:04:28.440 --> 0:04:30.919 their own city in Beijing, And it was just a 0:04:30.960 --> 0:04:33.520 horrific thing that managed to kind of trickle out and 0:04:33.560 --> 0:04:36.760 definitely captured the world's attention, pulled the world's head out 0:04:36.760 --> 0:04:40.760 of its butt, as you would say. Yeah, so you know, 0:04:40.839 --> 0:04:43.120 to tell the story, we need to go back in 0:04:43.200 --> 0:04:46.320 time a little bit. And big thanks to our pal 0:04:46.400 --> 0:04:48.640 Dave Ruse for helping us out with this one. This 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:52.320 is very good. In fact, it was on a different 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:54.080 laptop and I kind of forgot it was sitting in 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:56.760 my folder when I it has been there for like 0:04:56.800 --> 0:04:59.039 a month or so, right, yeah, it's been there a while, 0:04:59.279 --> 0:05:00.520 And then I saw it. I was like, oh wait 0:05:00.520 --> 0:05:04.080 a minute, we got tenement square on the burner. So yeah, 0:05:04.120 --> 0:05:05.719 they did a great job. And we have to travel 0:05:05.760 --> 0:05:10.960 back in time to uh, previous to nineteen nine, when 0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:16.640 the sort of feeling among students in China was that, 0:05:16.680 --> 0:05:19.920 you know what, this communism isn't working out so great, 0:05:20.560 --> 0:05:23.080 and we want to start making a little bit of noise. 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:26.120 And we're not saying to topple our government or anything 0:05:26.160 --> 0:05:29.839 like that, but we're saying, um, let's get the corruption 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:33.159 in check, and let's maybe um get some free speech 0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:35.719 going on and see some free press and free expression. 0:05:36.520 --> 0:05:40.599 And they thought they could get there. Uh, they thought 0:05:40.600 --> 0:05:42.600 they could get there, which is what makes this really 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:46.239 really sad, among many other things. Yeah, and then even 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:49.200 sider than that to me is they almost got there, 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:52.599 you know, like this was I mean, this was close. 0:05:52.640 --> 0:05:55.320 This is like a hair's breadth away. Where they brought 0:05:55.360 --> 0:05:58.560 this so so much to the government store step and 0:05:58.640 --> 0:06:01.160 laid this at their feet that the government had to 0:06:01.240 --> 0:06:05.280 at least consider, if not openly to one another, at 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:08.280 least you know, to themselves, like do we just bow 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:10.640 to the will of the people and just say, okay, 0:06:10.720 --> 0:06:13.679 we're gonna do things differently. Like it was a big, 0:06:13.720 --> 0:06:17.839 big deal. It was a big deal, and um, I 0:06:17.839 --> 0:06:20.680 guess preemptively, we should say we're going to do our 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:25.320 best with with some of the pronunciations of the names. Uh, 0:06:25.360 --> 0:06:27.960 they are tough and well as usual, we'll do our 0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:31.400 best and probably failed and stop short of being perfect. 0:06:31.520 --> 0:06:34.599 I think we we learned our lesson on the underground city. 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:38.400 At least, we're not going to pronounce X like X right. Right. 0:06:39.360 --> 0:06:41.599 So the students had a little bit of wind in 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:45.720 their sales because their college students, and that's what college 0:06:45.720 --> 0:06:48.440 students are like, that's why we love them. And they 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:52.120 thought they had um an Ally who was a pro 0:06:52.240 --> 0:06:55.000 reform leader and pretty high up in the Communist party 0:06:55.120 --> 0:07:00.800 and hugh yao bang sounds are about right, okay. Uh. 0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:02.800 He was forced out of power in eighty seven, though, 0:07:02.920 --> 0:07:07.120 and when he died in April April fifteenth, nineteen nine, 0:07:07.880 --> 0:07:11.880 the memorializing in the morning of his death is what 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:15.200 really kind of kick started this whole process that led 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:17.840 up to June three. Yeah, and in the late eighties, 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:21.960 what you call the president of China was named Dan 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:25.559 Jao Ping, and he was he had been in charge 0:07:25.600 --> 0:07:28.000 for a while. But in addition to the president in 0:07:28.040 --> 0:07:30.280 a communist country, you also have the leaders of the 0:07:30.320 --> 0:07:34.160 Communist Party. They're not exactly like lateral, but they're pretty 0:07:34.240 --> 0:07:36.360 high up. You have like a prime minister, you have 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:38.600 the leader of the party, the general secretary. Then you 0:07:38.640 --> 0:07:41.360 also have the president of the country, and Um Dang 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:46.440 was the President of China at the time. But there 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:49.480 within the party and within the leadership of the country, 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:52.680 including Hugh and he was kind of the face of 0:07:52.720 --> 0:07:56.200 this movement, there was this idea that, Okay, the Maoist 0:07:56.240 --> 0:08:01.080 Revolution happened. Mao was great, but we we can't run 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:05.080 a country just living by these kind of lofty principles 0:08:05.120 --> 0:08:08.360 that Mao espoused. We need to kind of get a 0:08:08.400 --> 0:08:13.480 little more loose gripped here, at least economically um And 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:17.040 there was a whole contingent, led again by Hugh that 0:08:17.040 --> 0:08:20.240 that basically said, maybe we should kind of ease up 0:08:20.280 --> 0:08:23.200 on the government planning a little bit and let a 0:08:23.240 --> 0:08:25.480 little bit of free market go and see what happens. 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:27.560 We really think that, like there's gonna be a lot 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:31.080 less starvation, a lot less poverty if we just led 0:08:31.080 --> 0:08:32.960 a little bit of this stuff into there. So there 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:36.040 was this kind of progressive movement. But then when Hugh 0:08:36.720 --> 0:08:40.800 when this when these protests kind of started in. They 0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:43.200 basically showed Hugh the door, like you were saying he was. 0:08:43.360 --> 0:08:47.000 He was removed from office because he had kind of 0:08:47.040 --> 0:08:52.080 demonstrated that that level of like loosening of the grip 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:55.959 on the people would lead to things like protests and demonstrations. 0:08:56.000 --> 0:08:58.240 But it was too late. They had opened the door 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:01.040 now and then, like you said, when he died, that 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:04.720 was that was kind of the the lip match that 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:08.040 got thrown onto this powder keg. And I take it 0:09:08.080 --> 0:09:10.280 you're on a first name basis now because it's easier 0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:13.720 to pronounce Hugh. Hugh was actually his last name. In China, 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:17.400 they say last name first. Yes. So I'm doing I'm 0:09:17.440 --> 0:09:21.760 having my um my dumpling and eating it too. Oh man, 0:09:21.960 --> 0:09:25.160 that's the best way to have a dumpling. So uh 0:09:25.160 --> 0:09:28.440 and I learned something new today too, thanks Chuck. That's 0:09:28.480 --> 0:09:33.920 basically why I wake up in the morning. Uh So, 0:09:34.280 --> 0:09:37.480 what happened is uh, you know, he died on ape. 0:09:37.840 --> 0:09:41.040 Bunch of students, like thousands of students got together in 0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:46.800 Tianamen Square to mourn his passing. And Tianamen Square, we 0:09:46.800 --> 0:09:49.560 should say, is it's an enormous place. It's the largest 0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:53.640 public space in the world. Right in the middle of Beijing. Uh, 0:09:53.679 --> 0:09:56.960 it is just it's the town center, unlike any town 0:09:57.000 --> 0:10:00.240 center in the world. Yeah, there's like no trees any where. 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:04.200 It's just flat and then edged by enormous public buildings. 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:07.920 It makes you feel very small. Yeah, and it's also 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:11.080 a perfect place to get like thousands and thousands and 0:10:11.120 --> 0:10:14.840 thousands of people together. And this is what happened during 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:18.920 the funeral celebration in Tianamen Square. And it didn't go 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:21.439 on for too long before students started to sort of 0:10:22.120 --> 0:10:24.880 use this as an opportunity to not only mourn someone 0:10:24.920 --> 0:10:29.800 that they believed was going to champion their cause, but 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:32.840 they said, we can use this now and let's just 0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:35.679 let's just camp out un let's hold some speeches, and 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:40.520 let's sort of start giving our demands for a political reform, 0:10:40.559 --> 0:10:44.760 like throwing peace signs and just basically peaceful protests that 0:10:44.800 --> 0:10:48.360 you would imagine students from. And most of them came 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:51.800 from Beijing University, which from what I understand, is the 0:10:51.800 --> 0:10:56.200 the premier elite university in the entire country. So these 0:10:56.200 --> 0:10:59.560 were like the children of the elites, as it were. 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:04.199 There's definitely a measure of tolerance of this going on 0:11:04.760 --> 0:11:08.439 whereas had it been you know, just a popular uprising 0:11:08.520 --> 0:11:11.840 or popular protests from the start, they probably would have 0:11:11.880 --> 0:11:14.640 been treated a lot more roughly, and it certainly would 0:11:14.640 --> 0:11:16.400 not have been allowed to have go on as long 0:11:16.440 --> 0:11:19.840 as it had. Yeah, and you know, it's interesting you 0:11:19.880 --> 0:11:24.559 mentioned the um the sort of split and ideologies within 0:11:24.600 --> 0:11:28.480 the party, which is really interesting to think about now. Um, 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:32.520 but they were split about what to do about these demonstrations. Um. 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:37.800 This was the biggest civil protests, longest running since communism 0:11:37.840 --> 0:11:41.720 had taken hold in ninety nine. And there were some 0:11:41.760 --> 0:11:43.920 people it wasn't just like all right, let's go in 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:47.079 there and mow him down. There was a complete faction 0:11:47.160 --> 0:11:50.640 within the party that was like, you know what, Um, 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:53.199 these are students and they want what's best for us, 0:11:53.400 --> 0:11:55.680 and maybe we should listen to them a little bit. Yeah, 0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:58.880 because it's like you said, they were saying down with communism, 0:11:58.960 --> 0:12:02.760 down with the China Any's Communist Party. They were they 0:12:02.800 --> 0:12:05.600 were saying, like down with corruption, and you know, we 0:12:05.679 --> 0:12:08.319 wanna we want a little more free speech, like some 0:12:08.440 --> 0:12:11.960 really basic stuff that didn't require the entire system to 0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:14.320 be overthrown, which was I think another reason why they 0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:17.640 were kind of allowed to continue. And then yeah, like 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:22.319 you're saying, there were sympathetic members of the Communist Party, 0:12:22.400 --> 0:12:24.560 high up in the party who were like, no, no, 0:12:24.640 --> 0:12:27.000 we should just you know, maybe hear him out or 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:29.440 just let it this thing fizzle out. But then on 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:32.240 the other side was a guy named Lee Ping, and 0:12:32.400 --> 0:12:36.319 he was the he was the antagonist in this whole thing. 0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:39.760 Most people paying him as the villain um, but I 0:12:39.800 --> 0:12:43.000 read an article about how he's actually the fall guy, 0:12:43.040 --> 0:12:46.120 that it was really Dang Jao Ping who was the president, 0:12:46.520 --> 0:12:49.200 who was the true architect of all of this, and 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:52.559 that Lee Ping, while he gets all of the um 0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:59.400 notorious credit, yeah for this whole thing, he he he didn't. 0:12:59.480 --> 0:13:02.200 He didn't. He wasn't the architect of it. But he 0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:07.320 also didn't stop his boss, um Danjo Ping, from from 0:13:07.400 --> 0:13:09.960 carrying this out or from being the architect of it too. 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:12.480 So it's not like he was a good guy. He 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:15.040 was easy to hate, I think from what I read, 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:18.480 and it made him an easy target of the protests 0:13:18.480 --> 0:13:21.240 and then the aftermath as well. Yeah, and I think 0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:24.520 it's you know, I think people it's easy to paint 0:13:24.559 --> 0:13:26.160 a good guy and a bad guy in a situation 0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:29.480 like this, and he was painted definitely is the bad guy. 0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:32.480 And again we're not saying that he was some awesome person. 0:13:32.520 --> 0:13:36.400 But on the other side was the Communist Party General 0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:40.120 secretary and his name was Zal's Yang and he was 0:13:40.160 --> 0:13:43.120 the one that was, you know, more sympathetic to the 0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:47.199 cause basically, Yeah, and so he was kind of holding 0:13:47.200 --> 0:13:52.400 back Danjo Ping's um worst impulses and saying like, no, 0:13:52.520 --> 0:13:55.439 we just need to kind of like approach this peacefully 0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:59.280 or whatever. And he got removed to Um, which I 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:04.000 really think kind of highlights just how uh how much 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:07.680 crossing or opposing Dang Jo Ping where it would get 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:11.800 you get your removed at best. And actually jaos Yang 0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:14.880 he Um spent when he was removed from office, he 0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:17.640 spent the rest of his life under house arrest, because 0:14:17.640 --> 0:14:21.240 I mean that's what happens when you are removed from office. 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:24.000 There they just say go home and don't leave again 0:14:24.480 --> 0:14:29.640 here under political quarantine. Yeah. So, you know, they had 0:14:29.680 --> 0:14:34.560 seen this happening all around them. The Soviet Union was crumbling. Um, 0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:37.960 they saw countries, communist countries, people just like these students 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:41.360 kind of rising up and saying that they've had enough. 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:45.320 So they were nervous and when zalox Yang went on, 0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:48.200 he went out of town, basically went on to Korea 0:14:48.560 --> 0:14:51.400 on a state visit. This is when Lee Ping said, 0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:53.000 all right, now is our time. This guy's out of 0:14:53.040 --> 0:14:59.040 the country, and he's like, basically, we can we can 0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:03.640 start the the first piece to toppling these students. And 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:06.880 it wasn't initially a violent piece. It was an ad. 0:15:06.920 --> 0:15:09.120 It was in April. It was an ad in the 0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:12.920 People's Daily, the state newspaper, and it was an editorial 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:17.360 basically that just denounced the demonstrations. And that was their 0:15:17.400 --> 0:15:22.240 first sort of shot fired. Was your friend is out 0:15:22.280 --> 0:15:25.040 of town. Well they didn't say that, but because he 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:27.240 was out of town, they said, we're going to run 0:15:27.240 --> 0:15:30.680 an editorial denouncing this. Yeah, And they basically said, look, 0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:33.760 these students are being misguided. That the whole thing started 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:40.040 earnestly as a memorial for UH, for Hugh Um, but 0:15:40.200 --> 0:15:44.160 that that it had been taken advantage of by probably 0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:49.040 outside agitators, maybe even like plants from other governments, who 0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:53.280 were fomenting like a popular uprising out of this um 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:56.720 genuine you know, sorrow for this guy who was you know, 0:15:56.800 --> 0:16:01.400 a real real advocate for them Um. But regardless of 0:16:01.440 --> 0:16:04.520 how it started or what's going on. We can't we 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:06.880 can't abide this any longer. And if we do, there's 0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:08.680 going to be I think they put it, will never 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:12.640 have another day's piece unless we act. Um. They didn't 0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:17.600 say brutally resolutely. Unless it's checked resolutely, they said, which 0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:21.360 is then in the margin it said, see brutally right exactly. Yeah, 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:25.480 I mean like that's not checked resolutely? Is against a 0:16:25.560 --> 0:16:31.160 popular protest? Is this menacing stuff? Should we take a break? 0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:35.040 More menacing stuff? All right, we'll take a break and 0:16:35.080 --> 0:16:37.160 we'll come back and talk about the effect that this 0:16:37.280 --> 0:17:03.360 editorial had right after this stop No, alrighty, So they 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:07.680 ran this editorial. They said that the uh, they would 0:17:07.720 --> 0:17:11.560 be checked resolutely if they didn't disperse, and they thought 0:17:11.600 --> 0:17:15.120 that that would do the job basically, But all that 0:17:15.119 --> 0:17:20.159 that had the complete opposite effect. Like literally overnight, people 0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:24.240 all over China, four hundred cities across China had people 0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:28.200 coming out and protesting because they were invigored by these 0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:31.679 students and what they saw going on in Beijing. And 0:17:31.760 --> 0:17:33.919 I think it says Dave had an estimate here of 0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:37.040 one inten citizens took to the streets and these were 0:17:37.040 --> 0:17:42.400 people of all social strata, all walks of life in China. Yeah, yeah, 0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:46.000 one intend in Beijing, but then tends to hundreds of 0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:49.280 millions of protesters all pouring out into the streets and 0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:53.840 cities across China, like they had a huge problem overnight 0:17:54.040 --> 0:17:57.080 on their hands. Like they they people were like that 0:17:57.119 --> 0:18:01.840 was the that was that editorial was the exact wrong move. Move. Yeah, 0:18:01.920 --> 0:18:05.040 it was the wrong move. And uh, things just kind 0:18:05.040 --> 0:18:07.119 of went on this way for a little while until 0:18:08.119 --> 0:18:11.560 I think about in mid May when Gorba Chef was 0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:14.280 coming to visit in China. So they said, this is 0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:17.520 the perfect chance, let's stage a hunger strike and Tienamen Square. 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:20.800 And this was not a good look for the Chinese 0:18:20.840 --> 0:18:23.760 Communist Party. They were not happy that this is going on. 0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:26.600 What Gorba Cheff was going to pay the visit, Yeah, 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:28.800 because I mean, you wanted to impress Goreby. He was 0:18:28.880 --> 0:18:32.280 probably the most popular guy in the world. Right then 0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:36.679 in nine Um, yeah, they lost face and it was 0:18:36.880 --> 0:18:40.000 it was a pretty well done move on the part 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:43.399 of the students who carried out the hunger strike. Um, 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:47.439 but that that editorial that kicked all this off, that 0:18:47.520 --> 0:18:51.560 really kind of changed things. There was a huge turn. 0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:54.520 There was a sea change in the entire thing when 0:18:54.920 --> 0:18:58.639 regular people started taking up this protest, because it started 0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:00.679 out as a student protest and now all of a 0:19:00.680 --> 0:19:05.400 sudden it was an everyday Chinese person protest um, and 0:19:05.440 --> 0:19:09.600 that apparently changed the entire attitude of the government towards 0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:12.360 this whole thing that was no longer paternal and kind 0:19:12.359 --> 0:19:16.639 of head patty and um uh patient. It was like, 0:19:16.840 --> 0:19:19.480 wait a minute, I saw in this front line documentary 0:19:19.520 --> 0:19:21.879 that somebody said it was like, the workers are the 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:25.000 ones who who put the Chinese Communist Party in power, 0:19:25.320 --> 0:19:27.480 and now it suddenly looked like the workers were about 0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:30.159 to take the power away from them. And this scared 0:19:30.200 --> 0:19:32.560 the bid Jesus out of out of them because again 0:19:32.560 --> 0:19:36.439 this is a very um. They had an iron stranglehold 0:19:36.480 --> 0:19:39.280 over their population, and they were also there's a lot 0:19:39.359 --> 0:19:42.720 of corruption in the government too, so the the whole 0:19:42.760 --> 0:19:45.880 idea of being removed from power had a lot more 0:19:45.920 --> 0:19:49.160 at stake than just you know, losing power. Like there 0:19:49.240 --> 0:19:51.600 there was they these people that had done quite a 0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:54.200 bit that they might have to answer for after they 0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:57.480 lost power. You know, oh yeah, big time. They were. 0:19:57.520 --> 0:20:01.080 They were officially worried at this point, um, he still 0:20:01.160 --> 0:20:06.240 had Zo calling for cooler heads to prevail here. Um. 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:09.520 But and this is before his removal, just before but 0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:12.920 Leeping said, you know what, the only way to take 0:20:12.960 --> 0:20:16.000 care of this is by kind of cracking the whip 0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:19.760 in a hard, hard way. Um, martial law should be imposed. 0:20:20.359 --> 0:20:23.720 Students heard about this, and this is when the big, 0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:27.800 big protest at Tenement Square. I think they estimated like 0:20:27.880 --> 0:20:31.840 over a million people, one point two million people, um, students. 0:20:32.200 --> 0:20:35.119 There were police involved, there were some military that we're protesting, 0:20:36.119 --> 0:20:40.880 and this is when everything really started to gain some momentum. Um. 0:20:40.920 --> 0:20:43.640 And you know what students thought was the right direction, 0:20:43.720 --> 0:20:47.919 but it turns out was a bad move. Probably yeah, 0:20:47.960 --> 0:20:51.440 I mean in high you can never yeah sure, yeah, yeah, 0:20:51.560 --> 0:20:53.840 I mean like like yeah now. But at the time, 0:20:53.880 --> 0:20:57.119 it was like, okay, we're gonna go to the mattresses 0:20:57.200 --> 0:20:59.639 rather than backing down. And they said, okay, we're gonna 0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:02.840 escalate on our end as well. If they're gonna amass 0:21:02.920 --> 0:21:05.640 troops and invade Beijing, which is what they did, we're 0:21:05.680 --> 0:21:08.199 gonna meet them and try to drive them out. And 0:21:08.280 --> 0:21:11.760 at first it actually worked. There was a a first 0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:17.640 incursion into Beijing of about three hundred thousand Chinese soldiers. 0:21:17.680 --> 0:21:21.000 The Chinese military showed up in Beijing and tanks, armored 0:21:21.000 --> 0:21:26.720 personnel carriers, troop transport trucks, the whole shebang. The imagine 0:21:27.440 --> 0:21:31.359 three hundred thousand soldiers showing up in Atlanta and just 0:21:31.440 --> 0:21:34.520 basically being like, everybody needs to go home. The thing is, 0:21:35.119 --> 0:21:39.280 everybod go home. This first probably this first um, this 0:21:39.440 --> 0:21:43.399 first incursion I guess into Beijing, UM didn't actually make 0:21:43.480 --> 0:21:46.359 it to the city center because the people in the suburbs, 0:21:46.960 --> 0:21:50.640 uh came out and swamped these army convoys and prevented 0:21:50.680 --> 0:21:53.879 them from moving forward and actually kept them there and 0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:57.760 gridlock of a sea of humanity for about four days. 0:21:57.800 --> 0:22:00.560 I think. Yeah, I mean it was a it was 0:22:00.600 --> 0:22:02.760 a huge victory. Kind of right off the bat. They 0:22:02.800 --> 0:22:06.480 had UM you know, they they went after these personnel 0:22:06.520 --> 0:22:11.360 carriers and these tanks. They had children, they had older adults, 0:22:11.400 --> 0:22:13.760 they had They basically kind of paralyzed what they were 0:22:13.760 --> 0:22:17.360 trying to do and then decided to do a very 0:22:17.440 --> 0:22:21.400 kind of brilliant thing, which was appeal to the good 0:22:21.480 --> 0:22:25.600 nature of these soldiers as human beings. UM. I saw 0:22:25.680 --> 0:22:29.200 one article that that kind of guess that about six 0:22:30.000 --> 0:22:35.160 of the p l A soldiers were illiterate. Um, they 0:22:35.160 --> 0:22:38.840 were uneducated. They were from out in the country, and 0:22:39.000 --> 0:22:42.240 these Beijing city folks would approach them and they would 0:22:42.280 --> 0:22:44.399 bring them food, and they would bring them things to drink, 0:22:44.920 --> 0:22:46.879 and they would send their children out to talk to 0:22:46.960 --> 0:22:49.359 them and say things like, you know, you should be 0:22:49.400 --> 0:22:52.360 defending us, you shouldn't be attacking us, you should join us, 0:22:52.760 --> 0:22:55.480 And some of them did. Some of those soldiers stepped 0:22:55.520 --> 0:22:59.240 down and kind of quit on the spot, knowing full 0:22:59.280 --> 0:23:02.600 well that that not end well for them, And the 0:23:02.640 --> 0:23:06.280 majority of them obviously didn't right right, But even you know, 0:23:06.359 --> 0:23:10.040 even if they didn't step down and and quit, some 0:23:10.119 --> 0:23:12.800 of them did step down and mingle and talk. And 0:23:13.000 --> 0:23:15.879 I saw footage of them when they finally left on 0:23:15.920 --> 0:23:20.040 the fourth day, they turned around and retreated away from Beijing. 0:23:20.560 --> 0:23:23.680 You know, a good third or half of the troops 0:23:23.720 --> 0:23:26.919 on these trucks that were driving away were waving to 0:23:27.040 --> 0:23:29.560 the to the people of Beijing who'd just been who 0:23:29.680 --> 0:23:32.360 just spent the last four days like feeding them and 0:23:32.400 --> 0:23:35.800 talking to them and basically trying to change their minds 0:23:35.800 --> 0:23:37.879 about this. Because I don't know if we made it 0:23:38.040 --> 0:23:40.960 we made it clear when the people from the Beijing 0:23:41.000 --> 0:23:45.040 suburbs swamped these trucks. This is a big non violent 0:23:45.480 --> 0:23:48.919 form of resistance. It wasn't violent, it was it was 0:23:48.960 --> 0:23:53.119 a charm offensive. It was just straight up non violent resistance. 0:23:53.440 --> 0:23:56.240