1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:03,120 Speaker 1: Hello, I'm Scott Sufton, I'm Evan Novie Williams, and I'm 2 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:06,199 Speaker 1: Michael bar And this is the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast, 3 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:08,240 Speaker 1: where we explore the big money issues in the world 4 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 1: of sports. Today, we have a conversation with Jim Rooney, 5 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: son of fame Steelers owner Dan Rooney, and that's coming 6 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 1: up in a minute. But first let's look at some 7 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:20,400 Speaker 1: of the stories we're watching in the world of sports business, 8 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:24,279 Speaker 1: beginning with the protests at this weekend's Harvard Yale football game. 9 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 1: About forty two people were at charge with a disorderly 10 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 1: conduct after the protests and erupted the football game. Some 11 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:39,879 Speaker 1: we were on the field holding banners urging action on 12 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:44,280 Speaker 1: climate change. Others signs had referred to the Puerto Rican 13 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 1: debt relief or the treatment of wagers in China. You 14 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:50,480 Speaker 1: need to pick up You need to pick a topic 15 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:52,159 Speaker 1: if you're gonna stage of protest at a foot like 16 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 1: is it like the ten yard line meet for climate change? 17 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 1: The forty yard line meet? Yeah, they stood at midfield 18 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 1: during halftime of the game, but it all seriousness. This 19 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:06,400 Speaker 1: could become a huge problem for big time college sports. 20 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:09,760 Speaker 1: Imagine if they have to cancel the game, which was 21 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 1: pondered here. Yeah, I think there was a lot of 22 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 1: consideration that about town in fifty people took the midfield 23 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 1: at the Yale Bowl this weekend, in the middle of 24 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 1: the Harvard Dale game, the biggest rivalry and IVY League sports. Uh, 25 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 1: and yeah, there were certainly consideration, I believe, of of 26 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: of having to cancel the game if students didn't move. 27 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,120 Speaker 1: From what I understand, a number of them eventually left, 28 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: and then a number were arrested, you know, twenty thirty 29 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:36,320 Speaker 1: maybe a couple more ended up being arrested, charged with 30 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 1: the sort of conduct and athletic director's nightmare. Yeah, this 31 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:41,040 Speaker 1: is this is the worst nightmare. And you know, this 32 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 1: is a game that you know IVY League network, you 33 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:47,039 Speaker 1: know goes through ESPN Plus. Now, Um, but if if 34 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: you kind of broaden this to the potential of a 35 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 1: much bigger game and a much profile stage. Uh, this 36 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 1: is something that I know because I've talked to them. 37 00:01:56,280 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 1: Athletic directors are thinking about constantly. Well, one thing rings 38 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: up right away is security. If you can storm the 39 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 1: field like that during the game at halftime, Well you 40 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 1: could always storm the field, yeah, but but usually you 41 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:10,640 Speaker 1: see the storming of the field after you know, a 42 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 1: big win and they're tearing down the goal. We tried 43 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: to stop that too, for insurance reasons. However, you're I'm 44 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:19,519 Speaker 1: wondering now if athletic directors and universities are going to 45 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 1: have to start playing some increased premiums based on games 46 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:26,680 Speaker 1: that might not be played because of protest. Imagine a 47 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:30,639 Speaker 1: Final four game, Imagine a you know, college football playoff 48 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 1: game that all of a sudden does not take place. 49 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:36,119 Speaker 1: It's not like you can just say, well, we'll play tomorrow. Yeah, 50 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:38,799 Speaker 1: it's not that easy. And if folks may remember, back 51 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:41,800 Speaker 1: in I believe two thousands sixteen, the University of Missouri 52 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 1: had kind of widespread campus protests around you know, the 53 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:49,800 Speaker 1: the administration's race relations. The football team joined that protest 54 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:51,399 Speaker 1: and there was a couple of days in there where 55 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:53,959 Speaker 1: it seemed as though the football team's game against b 56 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 1: y U that Saturday wasn't going to be played. There 57 00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:59,359 Speaker 1: was an sec network game. I believe the school is 58 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: going to be fined a million dollars if not more, 59 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:03,959 Speaker 1: if if the team did indeed decide not to play, 60 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: and in the end they ended up playing the game, 61 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 1: but there was a lot of conversation in the college 62 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:11,359 Speaker 1: sports world exactly what you're saying, Scott, What do we do? 63 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 1: What do we put in our contracts to make sure 64 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 1: that if this happens again, I'm not liable. It's big 65 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 1: for two reasons. Obviously, the media money huge. You know, 66 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:24,119 Speaker 1: these schools have paid a lot of money. And secondly, 67 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: you know, ticket sales. If you're a college football team still, 68 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 1: you know one of your big major revenue streams is 69 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:31,839 Speaker 1: ticket sales, and you know, losing one of your six 70 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: home games because you know the team is refusing to 71 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 1: play also hit you financially in another way. It was 72 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 1: one of those times. I mean, you know what crystallized 73 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 1: in a lot of the college athletes minds, the powers 74 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 1: that they do have. And let's not think it just 75 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 1: didn't have a spark or something to do with remote 76 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: yuma and what we're seeing now in college athletes pushing, 77 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 1: pushing for pay or at least the ability to benefit 78 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 1: from likeness and image all tied together. They really see 79 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 1: they do have a lot of And there's two things 80 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 1: here that are equally impactful in my opinion. There is 81 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 1: what happened this Saturday, which is not players taking a stand, 82 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 1: but but fans using the platform of a major game 83 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: to make their case known and potentially disrupted game. And 84 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 1: then the thing that you're talking about, which in my 85 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 1: opinion probably more likely, even especially in college basketball, which 86 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 1: is this idea that the players who are looking to 87 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: get systemic change within the n c A decide that, 88 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 1: oh why not right now we make some majors have 89 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 1: thought about not playing major games. We know that. Speaking 90 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:33,040 Speaker 1: of basketball, up next, let's talk about some potential changes 91 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:37,160 Speaker 1: that could come to the NBA, including receiving the four 92 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 1: conference finalists, mid season tournament, a post season play in, 93 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 1: and shortening the regular season. Now the mid season tournament. 94 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 1: That's very interesting. It's all very interesting to me, and 95 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:51,159 Speaker 1: I'll tell you why, because a lot of times leagues 96 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: are so stuck in tradition that they don't even think 97 00:04:55,080 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: about forget about small changes, major seismic ages, and the 98 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 1: way things have always been done. The worst reason to 99 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 1: do something is because it's just always been done that way. 100 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 1: And you really do need to credit Adam silver And 101 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 1: in my estimation, for looking at proposals looking I'm not 102 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 1: saying it's done, but moving in a direction towards being 103 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:20,039 Speaker 1: open to listening to the players, this load management. I 104 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:22,159 Speaker 1: know people don't like it, but he's looking for ways 105 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 1: to create long term not only interest, but what follows 106 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 1: the interest, the revenue, ensuring that his players and his 107 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:33,480 Speaker 1: league and his owners for the long term. And less 108 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 1: credit Michelle Roberts too, for engaging in these discussions, for 109 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 1: trying to find what they seem is a better way. 110 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 1: We talked last week or maybe two weeks ago about 111 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 1: early season NBA ratings and they're they're not good. And 112 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:46,279 Speaker 1: I would imagine that the powers that be at the 113 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 1: NBA look at those ratings and they say, listen, our 114 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:51,479 Speaker 1: regular season product might not be as enticing as we 115 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: wanted to be. And and a lot of these changes, 116 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 1: which is shortening the regular season, adding some in season tournaments, 117 00:05:56,839 --> 00:05:59,479 Speaker 1: maybe even adding a play in tournament before the playoffs, 118 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 1: it's used to be away at maybe shifting games that 119 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 1: are from the quote unquote irrelevant regular season into games 120 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 1: that maybe matter. And how long have we heard I've 121 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:09,919 Speaker 1: been imagine if you could have really the two best 122 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 1: teams in basketball playing for the championship. Forget about this 123 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 1: East versus West, because for so long it seemed as 124 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:17,480 Speaker 1: if we had like the top three or four teams 125 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 1: were in the Western Conference, which Major League, so you 126 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:24,159 Speaker 1: could have had sort of the Oklahoma City Thunder or 127 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:27,279 Speaker 1: the Rockets that they're height playing the Warriors instead of 128 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 1: somewhat turned out to be lesser matchups in the final. Yeah, 129 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:33,600 Speaker 1: I'd like to see that this throughout the conferences and 130 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:36,280 Speaker 1: just let's go to it on the record. Like you said, 131 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:39,600 Speaker 1: it's like, okay, the two best teams the well, let's 132 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 1: say you whatever, they just take eight teams. You take 133 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 1: the eight teams and have the best record, and of 134 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:48,360 Speaker 1: course it's bigger than that, but let's start from there 135 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:50,279 Speaker 1: and and that way you're going to get the best 136 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 1: of the best. From the business perspective, they'll credit the 137 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:58,359 Speaker 1: stakeholders listening to all the folks in the universe and 138 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 1: seeking a solution. It's not easy, but they're embarking on change. 139 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 1: If I'm ESPN or I'm Turner On one of the 140 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 1: big media companies that pay billions of dollars for for 141 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 1: NBA rights, do I look at this and I think great? 142 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 1: I mean this again, this this takes some days, some 143 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: days off the off the regular season schedule, where you 144 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 1: know we're seeing increasingly top players are choosing not to 145 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 1: play to manage their load and maybe create more excitement 146 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 1: middle of the season, before the playoffs at the end 147 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 1: of the season. Here is the genius of it all. 148 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: You said, if I'm ESPN or Turner and I'm looking 149 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 1: at this, you're not looking at this, You're participating in it. 150 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: You know, then the arms are out. It's bringing the 151 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 1: stakeholders and say what makes sense for you? What makes 152 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 1: sense for you? This is what we need. Can we 153 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 1: find a better way that accommodates all parties? By the way, 154 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 1: real quick, a lot of these things sound will be 155 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: sound very familiar to fans of the sports because a 156 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 1: lot of the sports seasons do this, you know, mid 157 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 1: season tournaments, you know, playing games for playoffs, all things 158 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 1: like that. I don't know if that was an inspiration, 159 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 1: but it is funny to see, you know, the NBA 160 00:07:57,400 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: considering widespread changes that are happening in any sports like 161 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 1: ex and finally stop I had to do that. The popular, 162 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: the popular ticket app owned by eBay, looks like it 163 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: is being sold. Yeah, so via Go Go, which is 164 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 1: a name that might not mean too much to to 165 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 1: our American listeners, but folks who are listening in Europe 166 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 1: certainly know one of the dominant players in ticket resale overseas. Uh. 167 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 1: It appears as though that they're nearing a deal four million, 168 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 1: four billion dollars sorry, to buy StubHub, which would kind 169 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 1: of be emerging of, you know, possibly the biggest brand 170 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 1: in resale tickets here in the US with possibly the 171 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: biggest brand in resale tickets outside the US. I'm glad 172 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 1: we were talking ticketing last week, so we could, you know, 173 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 1: sort of get a better idea how the whole because, 174 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 1: as I've said, I'm interested in it, but for me, 175 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:47,680 Speaker 1: it's always been about why you're charging me so much? 176 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 1: And do I really need these sites? You know, just 177 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:54,560 Speaker 1: sign your partnerships with with the teams and let me 178 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 1: just get my ticket from the box. Yeah. And and 179 00:08:56,559 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 1: just to kind of clarify for for folks who aren't 180 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: fully familiar with the way this hall well works, Jared Smith, 181 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 1: who runs Sicketmaster, was on the show last week. Ticketmaster 182 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 1: a majority of their business is the primary ticket market, 183 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 1: right so selling the the tickets directly from the the 184 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 1: the artist or the team. Stubb Hub works in this 185 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 1: secondary world, which is essentially the person who buys the 186 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 1: ticket from from Ticketmaster who wants to resell it can 187 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:22,440 Speaker 1: be both two and exactly and and Ticketmaster does some 188 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:24,680 Speaker 1: of the of the resale. But but Stubbub, vie Gogo 189 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 1: are are are exclusively you know these resale platforms. This 190 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 1: is a pretty big deal about the four billion dollars. 191 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 1: It was a lot bigger than I kind of was expecting. Um, 192 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 1: but you know, it's valuable to vie go Go. The 193 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 1: the guy who founded via go Go is also a 194 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 1: Stubbub co founder, so there's some synergy there. Long wanted 195 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:45,320 Speaker 1: to unite. He has said he long wanted to. eBay 196 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 1: stock also jumped on Monday morning off the news. So 197 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:52,440 Speaker 1: you know this eBay was I believe air stars. Yeah, 198 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 1: it was parent of stubb Hub, and stubb Hub was 199 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:56,960 Speaker 1: I think fourent of revenue. But it did sound like 200 00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 1: eBay investors felt like stubb Hub was not maybe war too, 201 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 1: you know the marketplace idea that eBay has, So they 202 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 1: feel like the company is is more efficient without best 203 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 1: just like their companies to stick to the core competencies 204 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:13,200 Speaker 1: and what does this distraction over here? Yeah, so the 205 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:15,439 Speaker 1: next big sale, which will be a much bigger sale 206 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 1: than StubHub. eBay owns a classified business that that exists 207 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:21,680 Speaker 1: mostly in Europe. Uh, and they will be selling that, 208 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:23,559 Speaker 1: I believe as well, and that will get a much 209 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 1: bigger price tag than than than StubHub did hurt it 210 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 1: here first bar much bigger price. I'm hearing it. I know. 211 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 1: I'm wasn't sure you were paying attention. I was you had. 212 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:34,320 Speaker 1: I thought you might have had a little closed eye moment. 213 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 1: It was, hey, hey, we're trying to get Frances on 214 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: the show. I hope he doesn't listen to this episode. Man, Okay, 215 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 1: Now let's get to our conversation with Jim Rooney Scott. 216 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 1: Why don't you kick it off? Mr Jim Rooney, son 217 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:53,320 Speaker 1: of Dan owner of the Pittsburgh Steelers back in the day, 218 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 1: Ambassador to Ireland, And we're talking business of sports. You 219 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 1: have a book out my favorite thing. Have a ten 220 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 1: year old. When I always tell him that football is 221 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 1: a business, he doesn't get it. Wait. I thought it 222 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 1: was just a sports stead. So wait, you mean to 223 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 1: tell me football is a business, Jim? Is it a 224 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:14,080 Speaker 1: business like any other? I don't think it's a business 225 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: like any other. I think there's elements of it that 226 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 1: are are obviously you have to be fundamentally sound. But 227 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:23,959 Speaker 1: I think the biggest difference is that your product are 228 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:27,440 Speaker 1: human beings and they're working in a team setting. And 229 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: when the Steelers are good, you know, we we have 230 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 1: done I think a pretty good job over most years 231 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:36,559 Speaker 1: of really respecting that human quality while also setting a 232 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 1: standard that look, you know, there's there's a standard for 233 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 1: the field, and then there's a there's there's business realities here. 234 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:46,439 Speaker 1: Is it a good idea as the owner of an 235 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:51,840 Speaker 1: NFL team to establish close personal ties with the players 236 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: because you may need to jettison that player. It's sort 237 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 1: of that business and personal should not mix. You just 238 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: is it easier to keep an arms length or is 239 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 1: it better to have that good relationship? Well, I look, 240 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 1: I can only speak for for us, and and I 241 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:11,680 Speaker 1: talked in the in the book about you know, my 242 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 1: father's approach, and you know, I think it's a great situation. 243 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 1: Is Frank O'Haras so Franco left on on not the 244 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:21,199 Speaker 1: most perfect terms with the Steelers and fact coach no 245 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:24,439 Speaker 1: Who who ended up being one of his very close 246 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 1: to Franco um. You know, said Franco Who when he 247 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 1: wasn't a training camp in the season that they end 248 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:32,840 Speaker 1: up going to Seattle. So so you get through those 249 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 1: those periods where there's there's sometimes some macrimony, but in 250 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 1: the long run. I remember there was a Clue Klux 251 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 1: Klan rally in Pittsburgh and Franco went and and protested 252 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 1: outside the city County building. And this was about eight 253 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:48,440 Speaker 1: years after that, and my father went and sat down 254 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 1: with Franco and Joe Gordon, who was our our publicity 255 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 1: man at the time, you know, sat there all day 256 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:56,760 Speaker 1: with him and and showed this type of support. So 257 00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:59,439 Speaker 1: in the long run, where we've been successful as having 258 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 1: deep in meaningful relationships and and and trying to engage 259 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:07,320 Speaker 1: folks and things that that, um, you go way beyond 260 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 1: just you know, a paycheck or even sort of day 261 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 1: to day camaraderie in the workplace. Now you have to 262 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:15,840 Speaker 1: be authentic. If you can't do that, you know, I 263 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 1: don't know that I could pull that off as well 264 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 1: as my father did. If you can't do that, you 265 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 1: I don't think you should try to be something you're not. 266 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:26,079 Speaker 1: But I do think that people want that that authentic 267 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 1: connection and that experience. That's that's meaningful. One thing that 268 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 1: I always admired about the Steelers is that there was 269 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: a low turnover for coaches. Can you expand on that 270 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:42,080 Speaker 1: and why the team has been successful with that? Absolutely? 271 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 1: So I think that's something um that that you know 272 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 1: is sort of the hallmark or at least a few 273 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 1: point to one thing that my father did well. It 274 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:54,160 Speaker 1: was hiring and in particular hiring coaches. And you know, 275 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:57,400 Speaker 1: if you look at the Mike Tomlins situation, we started 276 00:13:57,400 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 1: with thirty seven candidates. We looked at you know, the 277 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 1: we started with was thirty seven, we went down to twelve, 278 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 1: we went on to four, and then we hired Mike. So, 279 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 1: you know, my father loved the media, had great respect 280 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:11,840 Speaker 1: for the media, but but didn't get caught up in hey, 281 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:14,320 Speaker 1: i'm gonna get you know, it's gonna be I'm gonna 282 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 1: get a bad story on Monday because we didn't get 283 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 1: the coach that every wanted, everyone wanted us to get. 284 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 1: He really looked at, you know, this is a multi year, 285 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 1: hopefully multi decade higher and we did it with Chuck Noll, 286 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 1: you know, twenty three years. You did with Bill Cower, 287 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 1: I think fifteen and then Mike is on his eighteenth 288 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 1: year seventy. That seems like a simple business principle. Why 289 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 1: don't teams seem to understand and know the Utah Jazz 290 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 1: never wanted all back in the day they had that 291 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 1: guy Jordan's in their way. What are you gonna do? 292 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 1: But but Jerry Sloane always knew that I had ownership, 293 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 1: They had my back. If I ever had a problem 294 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 1: with a player, they were gonna go, it's not gonna 295 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:56,240 Speaker 1: be me. That seems important sports, Yeah, absolutely, I mean, 296 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 1: I mean, there there has to be some level of 297 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 1: in for structure. You have to have the relationships I 298 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 1: was talking about with Franco and these guys. But but 299 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 1: I think they also need to know, Okay, there's some 300 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 1: structure here and everyone has to to adhere to some 301 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 1: degree of what are we trying to achieve and that 302 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 1: the coach is the number one person in sort of 303 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 1: managing that relationship with the players. And if if I 304 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 1: think if people feel like that the coach had coaches back, 305 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 1: has had by is supported by ownership, you know they're 306 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 1: not going to try and play games go around the 307 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 1: coach things like that. Jim, you've been around football, professional 308 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:32,280 Speaker 1: football for a long time. You've seen it balloon into 309 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 1: this fifteen billion dollar a year enterprise. How healthy do 310 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 1: you think the NFL specifically is as a business moving forward? 311 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 1: There there are some tail winds obviously also some headwinds. 312 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 1: I'm curious what you think kind of the future holds 313 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 1: for football. Well, you know, I think that, um My 314 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 1: father worked hard to try and always, you know, on 315 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 1: the league level, you know he was he was the 316 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 1: lead negotiator with labor and and and always trying to 317 00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 1: find these win win situations. Try to find as where 318 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 1: you could you know, you could find a um, you know, 319 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: a compromise. If you need to have a compromise, try 320 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 1: to understand the other person's point of view. If the 321 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:13,200 Speaker 1: NFL continues to do those things, I think that that 322 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 1: there's enough runway for us to keep having success. If 323 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 1: we kind of fall out of that, I would be 324 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 1: pretty concerned and real specifically in terms of the head 325 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 1: injuries and and kind of the participation in football is dropping. 326 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 1: Um we talked to people. Some think that that is 327 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 1: a massive worry for NFL owners. Other people think that, 328 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 1: you know, you don't necessarily need vibrant youth participation in 329 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 1: football for there will still be people that love to 330 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: watch it at the professional level. Kind Of the more 331 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 1: we learn about, you know, the impact of football on 332 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 1: the brain, I guess more specifically, kind of how do 333 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 1: you think that affects the future of the game. Well, 334 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 1: if anyone who's not concerned, I think you're I think 335 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 1: you're missing something very significant. You have to be concerned 336 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: across the board on on the injury for hunt and 337 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 1: particularly the head injury front um. But I also believe 338 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:08,680 Speaker 1: that that you know, we have really led sports. Now 339 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:11,119 Speaker 1: now you can say we we we we needed to, 340 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:14,119 Speaker 1: but we've really led sports in terms of you know, 341 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:18,479 Speaker 1: awareness around head injuries, around the technology development, around changing 342 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:21,120 Speaker 1: the techniques, and then around making investments in the health 343 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 1: health system. So you know, I hope that we're making 344 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:26,680 Speaker 1: a positive contribution to that, and I hope that that 345 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 1: has an impact both on the health and safety of 346 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 1: of our players as well as all players, but also um, 347 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 1: you know, giving you know, providing more interest in football 348 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:40,359 Speaker 1: or a continued interest in football. We're chatting with Jim Rooney. 349 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:42,440 Speaker 1: The book is a Different Way to Win. Dan Rooney 350 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 1: story from the Super Bowl to the Rooney Rule. Michael's 351 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 1: going to get to the Rooney rule in a second. 352 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 1: But you just mentioned sort of a win win scenario. 353 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 1: Your father's searched for it. What's your dad pay for 354 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 1: the team? Well, my grandfather, my grandfather put that would 355 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:03,119 Speaker 1: have done that. I would have been there. Yeah, I 356 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:05,920 Speaker 1: definitely would have been there. Is there a difference, however, 357 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:10,160 Speaker 1: in finding those solutions in terms of your my partner, 358 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:14,040 Speaker 1: not just my competition. If you have no debt and 359 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:16,159 Speaker 1: you paid and sort of in the family, like I 360 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:18,960 Speaker 1: have no mortgage on my house versus the new guy, 361 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 1: no matter his net worth, but he's paid two point 362 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:27,920 Speaker 1: three looking ahead three four five billion dollars for the entity. 363 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:29,879 Speaker 1: Is it harder to convince that guy to be like 364 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:32,440 Speaker 1: Wellington Mara who said, hey guys, we need to share. 365 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:35,960 Speaker 1: So look, I think that's a great point, and I think, 366 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 1: you know, on on on a simple level, absolutely, it 367 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,879 Speaker 1: is harder to convince that those folks. But you know, 368 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:44,119 Speaker 1: and again, I you know, I want to sound like 369 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 1: a jerk here. I don't want to just be patting 370 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:48,280 Speaker 1: ourselves on the back, but I think the return on 371 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:50,200 Speaker 1: our investment continues to grow. You know, we're in the 372 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 1: twenty six largest market, yet we're um, you know, We're 373 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 1: in the top five every year in terms of merchandizing, 374 00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 1: top five and television ratings, And why why is it one? 375 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:03,360 Speaker 1: When I was young, listen, I was not a Steelers fan, right, 376 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 1: but I had a Steeler's jersey because I love the 377 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:08,200 Speaker 1: black and goal. It was just a good look. That's 378 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 1: I mean, that matters in anything I have. If I 379 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:14,960 Speaker 1: go looking around the the old something in the basement, 380 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 1: I will find a terrible towel. I'm not kidding. Well, 381 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:23,439 Speaker 1: I look, part of it is luck. We we and 382 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:25,440 Speaker 1: we worked hard. We did some good things to get 383 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:27,479 Speaker 1: these great players in the nineteen seventies, but we had 384 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:30,399 Speaker 1: a lot of great players right when football explode. It's 385 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:32,720 Speaker 1: sort of the Golden Age. The Steeler first the Cowboys, 386 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:35,399 Speaker 1: and Steelers first the Raiders. I think those are in 387 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 1: a lot of ways some of the most romantic games 388 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:39,960 Speaker 1: in NFL history, and people really remember that. So so 389 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:42,119 Speaker 1: there's there's an element of luck in there. But I 390 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 1: hope that it's it also is that that we tried 391 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:47,199 Speaker 1: to do things a certain way that that you know, 392 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 1: gave us this footprint that is is larger than our 393 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:53,240 Speaker 1: market size. So back to your original question, you know, 394 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:56,160 Speaker 1: I just think if you play the long game in sports, 395 00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:58,920 Speaker 1: you're going to get a better return it. It might 396 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 1: be challenging with the that's that you're talking about, but 397 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 1: I still think you're not gonna sort of increase your 398 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 1: debt and eventually you you can build a brand that 399 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:10,640 Speaker 1: that really has a footpent wapery on its market size. 400 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 1: You know, you talk about the romantic plays. Yes, out 401 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 1: I've watched the Immaculate Reception as it unfolded, and I'm 402 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:21,679 Speaker 1: looking at it and you see something back then that 403 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 1: you don't see today. You see fans running out on 404 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 1: the field right after that. Uh. If you see it 405 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 1: in college nowadays, everybody would have a bet on their 406 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:34,680 Speaker 1: mobile phone. Smashed screens is what you'd be seeing nowadays. 407 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:38,719 Speaker 1: But one thing that the Steelers changed is the Rooney 408 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:43,720 Speaker 1: rule and changed the National Football League. Uh and when 409 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:47,720 Speaker 1: people are coming up to being interviewed, that rule changed 410 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:50,879 Speaker 1: a lut. Can you expand more on that? Sure? So 411 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:53,200 Speaker 1: you know, again, I feel like I'm being a little 412 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 1: bit annoying here. I know, I wrote the book about 413 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 1: my dad, so I guess that's what I'm talking about. 414 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:59,160 Speaker 1: I'm patting myself on patting him on the back, which 415 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 1: he wouldn't like. But um, so in in nineteen sixty 416 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 1: eight we brought one of the first African American scouts 417 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:07,720 Speaker 1: to the Steelers, Bill None, and from seventy six we 418 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:11,119 Speaker 1: drafted more players from HBCUs than any other team. And 419 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 1: those guys went on to perform in a way that 420 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 1: that you know, empirically we can show not just in 421 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 1: wins and championships, but in games played, sacks, receptions, touchdowns 422 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 1: that those players contributed in a way that was substantially 423 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:31,400 Speaker 1: higher or greater than the non HBCU UM counterparts. So 424 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 1: my father had this experience there that showed that if 425 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:36,479 Speaker 1: you expand the pool of talent, you not only are 426 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:38,600 Speaker 1: sort of doing the right thing, but but you have 427 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: a competitive advantage. UM. He did some other things that 428 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 1: I talked about in the book, particularly in Ireland, where 429 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:47,960 Speaker 1: he can you know, contributed those similar types of attitude. 430 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,719 Speaker 1: So then in in two thousand three, when Tony Dungee 431 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 1: gets fired by Tampa Bay Commissioner Tagliaboo, you know, picked 432 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:57,639 Speaker 1: my father to run the the NFL Diversity Committee, and 433 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:00,360 Speaker 1: I talk about how he built the compromise to get 434 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:02,960 Speaker 1: the rule. I talked about the years he spent with 435 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:05,679 Speaker 1: the general named John Wootton, who was another one of 436 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:09,000 Speaker 1: the early African American scouts to really be the champion 437 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 1: of the rule for UM. You know, the first fifteen 438 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 1: years you have from you know, if you look at 439 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:17,480 Speaker 1: the NFL, you know this is h anniversary. From nineteen 440 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 1: twenty to two thousand three, you had you had basically 441 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 1: seven minority hires if you count general managers. Now since 442 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 1: the ruined rule you have thirty. You have at increase 443 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:31,719 Speaker 1: in UM minority coaches in the assistant coach level. So 444 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 1: you have this this overall growth that that my father 445 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:37,439 Speaker 1: was proud to contribute to. But he also would be 446 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 1: the first guy to say, hey, we need to do 447 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:41,920 Speaker 1: a better job. He was always about being rigorous about 448 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 1: improving the process. If there were more if there were 449 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:47,400 Speaker 1: new best practices out there, if something had changed, he'd 450 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:48,920 Speaker 1: be the first guy to say, look, we got to 451 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,679 Speaker 1: do a better job at these types of things. We 452 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,640 Speaker 1: had a mod Nassa that he runs the NFL PAS 453 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:57,720 Speaker 1: Marketing and Licensing on right on recently and we talked 454 00:22:57,760 --> 00:22:59,879 Speaker 1: a bit about kind of this push right now for 455 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,680 Speaker 1: NFL players to you know, be a little more business 456 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:04,920 Speaker 1: savvy to take kind of control of their own marketing, etcetera. 457 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 1: I'm curious how different you think and you see differences 458 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,400 Speaker 1: in players nowadays versus you know, back in the seven 459 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 1: of the Terry Bradshaw era, just in terms of not 460 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:16,880 Speaker 1: on the field necessarily, but how they approach their own 461 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:20,879 Speaker 1: business and their own brand off the field. So, my 462 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 1: grandfather started team in ninety two and I remember when 463 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:26,399 Speaker 1: I was like eighteen, nineteen years old, I made this 464 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 1: comment to him about these players today. They get so 465 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 1: much more money, they don't pay attention, blah blah. My 466 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:34,040 Speaker 1: grandfather said, wait, and he was he was a boxer 467 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,440 Speaker 1: and it was it was an athlete. He said, wait 468 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:38,919 Speaker 1: a minute, Jim, the players are the same today as 469 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,880 Speaker 1: there's always been. And he had an eight ten ten role. 470 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 1: He said, eight percent of the guys are like everyone 471 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:46,880 Speaker 1: else in the world, and they do, you know, certain things, 472 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 1: ten percent of these marvelous people that you likely would 473 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:52,119 Speaker 1: never meet anywhere else, and ten percent of these guys, 474 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:55,440 Speaker 1: you know, might be more challenging. I think that that 475 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 1: is true now, thirty years after he made that statement. 476 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 1: I do think that the mecha is ums. You know, 477 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 1: we're doing a podcast now and people have. There's tools 478 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 1: now that allow you to do things that that have 479 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 1: obviously changed the world in so many ways. But I 480 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,440 Speaker 1: don't know that that the people themselves have changed. And 481 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:15,639 Speaker 1: I hope that that that continues to provide opportunities for 482 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,720 Speaker 1: people to hear these amazing stories that these guys. So 483 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,400 Speaker 1: many of these guys have just overcome so much their commitment. 484 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 1: You know, you guys are in the business world. The 485 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 1: discipline these guys have is all is never really brought out. 486 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,200 Speaker 1: I mean, the ability to work that hard, to out 487 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 1: outcompete you know, basically everyone in the world to get 488 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,399 Speaker 1: to the top level that you can is an amazing story. 489 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,160 Speaker 1: So I think there's some great stories out there that 490 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 1: that these new forms will allow them to tell them 491 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:42,879 Speaker 1: tell them. But David Tepper just sold his stake in 492 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 1: the team, which he had to do, had to divest 493 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,479 Speaker 1: because of his obviously the majority control of Carolina. Who 494 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,359 Speaker 1: bought who bought his shares? So the team bought a share, 495 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 1: so it's sort of got split amongst all of the owners. 496 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 1: Any outsiders to new outsiders, I think we brought into 497 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 1: new outsiders. I don't have their names here. I apologize, Okay, 498 00:24:57,640 --> 00:24:58,959 Speaker 1: let's get you in trouble on the way out. Though. 499 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 1: Who's your favorite stealer time? Joe Green? What does he 500 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 1: mean or was he not? Mean? Joe Green is tough, 501 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 1: is tough, but he's not throw the towel. He gets 502 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 1: the cooke man. That was good. He'd be a star, yeah, 503 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 1: I mean from the commercial people know him from that. 504 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 1: He'd be a star these days. Joe is Joe is 505 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:22,919 Speaker 1: a special guy. There's Joe. I hate to say this, 506 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:25,880 Speaker 1: but Joe's leadership on the field is like Tom Brady's. 507 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:27,879 Speaker 1: Joe made every single one of those guys, and we 508 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:29,560 Speaker 1: had some good guys, but he made everyone on the 509 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:34,160 Speaker 1: field better, just like Bar. But before I give your name, 510 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,320 Speaker 1: I got to tell the quick Joe Green story. You 511 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 1: have read this. I read this somewhere Dick Buckets, And 512 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 1: you know, Dick Buckets is another one of those tough characters. 513 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 1: An knocked the snot out of him man, and Buckets 514 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,840 Speaker 1: didn't take any you know what, offen anybody out there 515 00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:55,439 Speaker 1: at all because he's Dick Buckets. Well, apparently, as the 516 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:59,080 Speaker 1: game is ending, mean Joe Green is there and they're 517 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 1: all mad than this and that whatever, and mean Joe 518 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 1: Green apparently spit in his face and you're expecting a 519 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:11,160 Speaker 1: big fight and nothing you'd be expectorating. Yeah, nothing happened. 520 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,680 Speaker 1: It was that was it, man. It was like, gets 521 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:16,399 Speaker 1: just one looking that I wanted, no partners, Yeah, I 522 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,920 Speaker 1: believe it or not. Man, So now Dick bud Kiss 523 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 1: is gonna beat me up. Jim Rooney behind a different 524 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,440 Speaker 1: way to win. Dan Rooney story from the Super Bowl 525 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,199 Speaker 1: to the Rooney Rule. Thank you so much for joining us. 526 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 1: It was fun talking with you there. Thank you guys, 527 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 1: really appreciate the time. Man. That interview brought me back. 528 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:37,919 Speaker 1: Me and Joe Green, I want to coke and you 529 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:41,240 Speaker 1: can have a smile, and I want the towel and 530 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 1: you know, baby, Chuck, you don't. That's the amazing What 531 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:49,880 Speaker 1: is it? Only three head coaches for the Steelers, Chuck 532 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:53,960 Speaker 1: Nole and uh and and you know the Bill Kawer 533 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 1: and then of course might tune. So that's amazing to me. Uh. 534 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 1: This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast at Michael 535 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:02,959 Speaker 1: Barr along with Scott Sashnik and even Believe, we are 536 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,159 Speaker 1: here every Monday, Wednesday and Thursday exploring the world of 537 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 1: money in sports. Join us again at the end of 538 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:10,480 Speaker 1: the week, we'll keep talking with the biggest and brightest 539 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,200 Speaker 1: in the sports business world. You're listening to Bloomberg Business 540 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:17,160 Speaker 1: of Sports on Bloomberg Radio around the world and online 541 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 1: where you get your podcast