Speaker 1: This crowd rises to its being what Carl slamming it?
Speaker 1: Oh Carl, left wing free ball perfect Darl, both please pop?
Speaker 1: They have a block the shot at the rim? How
Speaker 1: with the left hand and of foul.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Chase Doown Podcast, part of the Caves Media family.
Speaker 2: I'm your host, Justin Rowan. The Chase Doown is presented
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Speaker 2: Slash Calves. The Cleveland Cavaliers have reached this sixty win threshold,
Speaker 2: just the third time in franchise history. They have won
Speaker 2: sixty games. There are is seven games left. They'd have
Speaker 2: to run the table to have the best record in
Speaker 2: franchise history, or go six and one to match the
Speaker 2: best record in franchise history. That's how math works, and
Speaker 2: this podcast works by me introducing my co host, Carter Rodriguez.
Speaker 1: Carter, how you doing, buddy, I'm doing great. Uh. Sixty
Speaker 1: wins ain't nothing. Uh. I thought it went about as
Speaker 1: good as you as you could ask for a game
Speaker 1: like this to go where I feel like the Clippers
Speaker 1: gave them a really really good punch and hit some
Speaker 1: really really tough shots. You know this the listeners don't
Speaker 1: that I missed the fourth quarter live because I was
Speaker 1: doing dad stuff and I kind of messaged you to
Speaker 1: be like, hey, was there like a pretty big drop off?
Speaker 1: Is that why I got competitive again? And you're in
Speaker 1: you know? The message I kind of got back was like, no, no,
Speaker 1: like Clippers got hot, and really what I saw watching
Speaker 1: that forth and like, obviously it's always easier when you
Speaker 1: know that the Calves pulled it out, but like I
Speaker 1: was kind of expecting to maybe feel like maybe Justin's
Speaker 1: being too nice, but no, I really do. I felt
Speaker 1: like the Calves were running really really good offense. They
Speaker 1: were getting really clean looks and they were missing, and
Speaker 1: the Clippers were hitting really really tough shots or the
Speaker 1: guys that if you have to give an open shot,
Speaker 1: the guys that were taking those, we were hitting. So
Speaker 1: I felt like they the Clippers gave them a very
Speaker 1: very strong punch and the Calves didn't stop playing Cavalier
Speaker 1: basketball on the road to the win. Yeah, I totally agree.
Speaker 2: Honestly, I feel like this game from a process standpoint,
Speaker 2: was their best performance since the home win over Memphis,
Speaker 2: which kind of kicked off at seventeen game road trip
Speaker 2: essentially that the Caves had been on. I know that
Speaker 2: there's a couple home games that were sprinkled in there,
Speaker 2: but if you're only there for a night or two,
Speaker 2: that's just another stop on the road trip here, not
Speaker 2: unpacking your bags. As you say, that was a grueling,
Speaker 2: grueling stretch, And frankly, I can't remember any Calves team
Speaker 2: or any team having a stretch that extreme when you
Speaker 2: look at it and take it back even further, because
Speaker 2: that Memphis game was the second home game, but if
Speaker 2: you take it back to the beginning of February, they
Speaker 2: played twenty six games and only that one time did
Speaker 2: they play two games in a row in Cleveland. The
Speaker 2: entire time they are, you know, on the road, arriving
Speaker 2: in the next city at four or five in the morning,
Speaker 2: you know, quick turnarounds. I think there were four backed
Speaker 2: backs within that stretch. That is a grueling, grueling stretch,
Speaker 2: and I think, you know, I don't. I don't think
Speaker 2: we thought that they'd struggle as much as they did,
Speaker 2: you know, having a four game losing streak. This team
Speaker 2: has done a really good job of bouncing back after losses.
Speaker 2: But we did say at the beginning of March, hey,
Speaker 2: they're playing the schedule right now. February was grueling, March
Speaker 2: is even worse. This is something that is going to
Speaker 2: have an impact on how they play, particularly with the one.
Speaker 1: Seed basically locked up.
Speaker 2: So if they struggle a little bit, if they look fatigued,
Speaker 2: if they have cold shooting spells, that might be something
Speaker 2: that you know, we may end up seeing this month.
Speaker 1: We did that. We did see that.
Speaker 2: And I'd say even in this Clippers game with the
Speaker 2: Cows didn't shoot particularly well from three, I thought it
Speaker 2: was the most locked in they've I thought even when
Speaker 2: the shots weren't going in, they stuck with the right
Speaker 2: types of looks for the most part. I thought they
Speaker 2: were more prepared to play against the Clipper small ball lineup,
Speaker 2: and I just thought, start to finish, this was their
Speaker 2: best forty eight minutes since that Memphis game.
Speaker 1: Yeah, important to note that in the Cavaliers absolute nightmare
Speaker 1: March that had many people questioning this team's top end ceiling,
Speaker 1: had them questioning their heart their toughness. They go eleven
Speaker 1: and five. Yeah, that's a fifty six win pace. An
Speaker 1: eleven and five month in any other season is a
Speaker 1: great month. And like, I don't want to dismit, and
Speaker 1: i'd say that in the tone there is inherently a
Speaker 1: little dismissed. If it's a little snide, you know whatever,
Speaker 1: But like, and I don't want to completely undermine the
Speaker 1: fact that this was a hard month because even in
Speaker 1: some of those wins, I don't think they were playing
Speaker 1: their best basketball. A lot of their underlying metrics weren't
Speaker 1: that strong.
Speaker 2: Even in the winning streak, we said that they were slumping,
Speaker 2: that they weren't playing their best basketball.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So but with that said, like, if this is
Speaker 1: the floor, like it's a pretty good floor, guys. And
Speaker 1: I do think it's important for every single Cavs fan
Speaker 1: who was feeling a little grumpy for the last two
Speaker 1: weeks to acknowledge that, like, this is a higher teams
Speaker 1: would beg for a floor this high. You know, the
Speaker 1: Knicks almost certainly will not win at a fifty six
Speaker 1: game pace this season. The Rockets are maybe knocking on
Speaker 1: the door. Really only there might be three teams that
Speaker 1: finished with fifty six games or wins or more this
Speaker 1: whole season, and that was our pace for our worst month. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So like, I don't know, man, I just feel like
Speaker 1: I have to lead with that context, in that perspective,
Speaker 1: because no matter how grumpy we've been, like, it's still
Speaker 1: first world problems, bro.
Speaker 2: It really is. And you know, you look back on it.
Speaker 2: The twenty sixteen Calves know what they did in March
Speaker 2: eleven and five. They had the exact same record as
Speaker 2: this Calves team. And if you look at the last
Speaker 2: nine champions and how they've played in March, there's only
Speaker 2: two that had a better record than the Calves, one
Speaker 2: of them being the twenty seventeen Warriors that went twelve
Speaker 2: and five, So really they cheated. They had just as
Speaker 2: many losses. They just happened to play one more game.
Speaker 2: We would have won the you know, the twelfth game
Speaker 2: if we had seventeen games. And the only other one
Speaker 2: is last year Celtics, who actually played better. They were
Speaker 2: twelve and four, so they won one game more than
Speaker 2: the Calves did in that stretch. If you look at it,
Speaker 2: out of those nine champions over that stretch since twenty sixteen,
Speaker 2: four out of the nine had a losing record in March,
Speaker 2: forget you know, just eleven and five they had a
Speaker 2: flat out losing record. So it is typically when you're
Speaker 2: looking at the season, this is the month that correlates
Speaker 2: with postseason success less than any other. But some of
Speaker 2: the struggles we're seeing, trying to see, you know, the
Speaker 2: guards get back on track, trying to get the core
Speaker 2: all plane at a high.
Speaker 1: High level.
Speaker 2: That stuff that even if it doesn't translate to the postseason,
Speaker 2: you're going to feel a little bit better. You're going
Speaker 2: to have a little bit more confidence as fans and
Speaker 2: honestly probably even as players if you're having success. So
Speaker 2: what I'd like to see is for them to take
Speaker 2: this win against the Clippers that I thought was really
Speaker 2: really solid and build upon it and start to you know,
Speaker 2: regain some of that positive momentum, even if you're going
Speaker 2: to lose it with that play and break.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And one thing I want to note before we'll
Speaker 1: and we'll talk about the game. I promise you know,
Speaker 1: this narrative stuff is tiring, but I do think it's
Speaker 1: important as we've gone through this season. The other piece
Speaker 1: of context I think that makes has made this month
Speaker 1: hard is the fact that Boston and Okay see are
Speaker 1: freaking electric right now, you know, like Boston's riding an
Speaker 1: eight game win streak. Okay's right, a nine game win streak.
Speaker 1: So like, yeah, there is a degree where you kind
Speaker 1: of look around and go, well, those are the only
Speaker 1: two teams we've been told by people like us to
Speaker 1: care about for the rest of the season and look
Speaker 1: at their form, look at our form? What's wrong with us?
Speaker 1: You know? Now? Like you have correctly kind of pointed
Speaker 1: out that Austin's had stretches like this. I mean, there's
Speaker 1: a reason we've won five more games than them.
Speaker 2: Not only has Boston had stretches like this. My analysis
Speaker 2: on the podcast and when we talk privately is don't
Speaker 2: read too much into it. This is a team that's
Speaker 2: coming off the Olympics. They're tired. It's tough to repeat
Speaker 2: months like this happened. It doesn't impact how if you
Speaker 2: you know the regular season, you know what a Boston
Speaker 2: also had from February twenty eighth all the way to
Speaker 2: March twelfth. Do you know what they do? You know
Speaker 2: where they were where Boston, Massachusetts? Oh man, two weeks
Speaker 2: at home. We've had three days our one break in
Speaker 2: This two month stretch was three days long.
Speaker 1: On two, three, four, five, six, seven game homestand a
Speaker 1: seven game homes dance economy. Wait, you know, sometimes you
Speaker 1: know they're but boy are they about Boy are they
Speaker 1: in the middle of paying for it though that they're
Speaker 1: they're also wrapping like they're gonna have quite a few
Speaker 1: on the road here in response. So I don't know,
Speaker 1: and they're winning through those two Yeah.
Speaker 2: You know, it's a dirty secret about the NBA schedule.
Speaker 2: You end up playing forty one at home and forty
Speaker 2: one on the road. So you know, that's that's why
Speaker 2: when when teams go on these long stretches. For Boston,
Speaker 2: I think they went like six and ten or something
Speaker 2: like that in January where they just had.
Speaker 1: A tough, tough month.
Speaker 2: That kind of stuff happens, man like it particularly like
Speaker 2: when it is something like that when you're out on
Speaker 2: the West Coast. You know, when you're dealing with some
Speaker 2: nagging injuries don A Mitchell, you know, coming back from
Speaker 2: the groin injury, you're missing Tied Jerome with knee tendonitis.
Speaker 1: It's just really really tough.
Speaker 2: We talked about them getting in at five point thirty
Speaker 2: in the morning from Portland, and then you're playing a
Speaker 2: road back to back right after that. And not only that,
Speaker 2: the second half of that back to back is against
Speaker 2: a very physical Detroit Pistons team.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and like, I do think you've made a very
Speaker 1: good point that the Calves really are just playing against
Speaker 1: the schedule because their magic number is down to four
Speaker 1: for the one seed. You know, they have to go,
Speaker 1: you know, four and four the rest of the way,
Speaker 1: four and five, four and three, four and three. Jeez,
Speaker 1: I can't do math right now. You're right, you're right,
Speaker 1: four and three. No whatever, I'm not doing math live
Speaker 1: on the pot. My brain is tired. But the magic
Speaker 1: numbers four, you know, they would have to truly collapse
Speaker 1: down the stretch in order to not hold on to
Speaker 1: that one seed. And meanwhile, you're playing Detroit, who's fighting
Speaker 1: for home court, like they're a game out of home court.
Speaker 1: The Clippers are, you know, they're in the eight seat.
Speaker 1: They're trying to get out of the play in like
Speaker 1: like it is just all these teams they're playing are
Speaker 1: fighting for their lives right now. And it does matter
Speaker 1: when you are just trying to get yourself amped up. Yeah,
Speaker 1: when you're tired and you're not playing your best, and
Speaker 1: you know, like all your motivation has to come within
Speaker 1: from within. That's not to say that they shouldn't figure
Speaker 1: out how to motivate themselves, but like it's a different
Speaker 1: starting point. You know, It's like you're playing a game
Speaker 1: of Mario Kart and someone knows how to time up
Speaker 1: that green light at the beginning to get that little boost,
Speaker 1: And the Cavs are coming out of the gate with
Speaker 1: you know, it's getting their tires bad starts.
Speaker 2: You know, in for that twenty six game stretch where
Speaker 2: they basically were on the road the entire time traveling
Speaker 2: twenty and six, they had were fourth, and net rating third,
Speaker 2: and offense tenth in defense. As you said, I that's
Speaker 2: the floor. That's encouraging. But when you're a team that
Speaker 2: does not have the playoff track record that you know,
Speaker 2: the Boston Celtics have, I shouldn't say you know, all
Speaker 2: contenders because okay, season the exact same boat as us.
Speaker 2: But when you don't have that track record, people are
Speaker 2: going to pick nits. I think it's fair to pick nits.
Speaker 2: If you already had doubts about the Cleveland Cavaliers, you know,
Speaker 2: their ability to make it through two months of the
Speaker 2: playoffs where it's going to be physical, it's going to
Speaker 2: be grueling, You're you're going to get tested. Teams are
Speaker 2: going to be familiar with all of your pet sets.
Speaker 2: If you see them struggle going through you know, schedule
Speaker 2: adversity and playing through some injuries and things like that,
Speaker 2: If it confirms your priors, you're going to hold on
Speaker 2: to that, right because that's where your inclination is. If
Speaker 2: you're an optimist like myself, you're going to say, well,
Speaker 2: you got you gotta look at the context here. You know,
Speaker 2: I still have those questions, Like I have questions about
Speaker 2: how the offense is going to hold up in the playoffs.
Speaker 2: I want to see it until they actually do it
Speaker 2: and do it for four rounds. You're going to have
Speaker 2: some doubts. But you know, I can't really blame anyone
Speaker 2: who has those doubts or you know already had some concerns,
Speaker 2: particularly where some of those pain points are things we've
Speaker 2: seen before in the past, like given off offensive rebounds.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and like I do think these concerns are are
Speaker 1: some of these concerns are real, and some of them
Speaker 1: are fair, you know, like I've said this before in
Speaker 1: like a lot of different ways, you know, a lot
Speaker 1: of different rappers. But like every team has a fatal
Speaker 1: flaw that will eventually kill them except one. You know,
Speaker 1: like like almost no one, no team shows up perfect
Speaker 1: and then accidentally loses. You know, everyone's got a thing
Speaker 1: that when you're as a fan, you're washing and you
Speaker 1: go like, you know, like with Boston, it's the it's
Speaker 1: the it's it's just the hunting threes. And when they're
Speaker 1: not going in, they don't get out of that rhythm.
Speaker 1: They don't change what they're doing.
Speaker 2: They they blow more leads than almost any team because
Speaker 2: they play such an iso heavy style and just jack
Speaker 2: up threes with Oka.
Speaker 1: See almost every loss they have, you look at the
Speaker 1: fourth quarter and they have like sixteen points and their
Speaker 1: offense goes cold when Shay's sitting. Like, everyone's got a
Speaker 1: fatal flaw, you know, it's just a matter of whether
Speaker 1: you're good enough to accommodate it and whether that it's
Speaker 1: so bad you know that you can't overcome it. But
Speaker 1: like and like for this Caps team, like I have
Speaker 1: scars tissue too as a fan, and when I've seen
Speaker 1: this team getting mangled on the on the defensive glass
Speaker 1: where they can't finish possessions, and Kenny's talking about calling
Speaker 1: tom Izzo for advice because the great quote, Yeah, because
Speaker 1: the team is just not handling things on the boards.
Speaker 1: Like I do get those concerns, and like I share
Speaker 1: them to some extent. I just like I just think
Speaker 1: everyone's being a little too black and white and how
Speaker 1: they feel about those flaws, Like it's very easy to
Speaker 1: point out a flaw and say that will be our
Speaker 1: fatal flaw and you will probably be right. And I
Speaker 1: still don't think it's an interesting discussion. What I think
Speaker 1: as interesting as them figuring out how watching them figure
Speaker 1: out how to account for that flaw. And that is
Speaker 1: where I want to start tonight's kind of discussion about
Speaker 1: this game itself. So the Clippers finished with ten offensive
Speaker 1: rebounds in this game. The Cavs matched that Clippers had
Speaker 1: a twenty six point five offensive rating in this one,
Speaker 1: just offensive rebound rate in this one, that would be
Speaker 1: good for twenty fifth in the league, just a little
Speaker 1: bit above the twenty sixth overall Phoenix Suns. And I
Speaker 1: thought it was a great answer from the team up
Speaker 1: and down the roster on the glass, you know, because
Speaker 1: they got punked by the Clippers on the glass just
Speaker 1: a few days ago. And I really want to point
Speaker 1: out that, yes, the defensive the Bigs did better on
Speaker 1: the boards. But if this, if there was ever any
Speaker 1: indication that this was a group effort to to to
Speaker 1: kind of handle that, it's this game. Jared Allen has
Speaker 1: six defensive or nine defensive rebounds in this game. Very good.
Speaker 1: Evan Mobley had six, it's fine. Donovan Mitchell has eleven. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And and I saw a much more concerted effort from
Speaker 1: the team up and down the roster to help the
Speaker 1: Bigs out. It is too hard to wrestle a Vikazubac
Speaker 1: and break off to go get that board when there's
Speaker 1: other bodies in the fray. It's hard to get two
Speaker 1: hands on the boards when you're wrestling a bear like
Speaker 1: sometimes the best you're able to do is tap it.
Speaker 1: And you know, there were a lot of plays where
Speaker 1: Okoro shows up and helps deflect Dean come in, Sam
Speaker 1: crashes in. Donovan obviously was unbelievable at this twelve rebounds. Yeah,
Speaker 1: in terms of just you know, getting into the space
Speaker 1: where it's like all right, Jarrett or Evan you've got Zubach,
Speaker 1: just keep him out of the way. We'll finish the
Speaker 1: possession for you. And that's what good rebounding teams do. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they do not just rely on their big to hoover
Speaker 1: up every available board. And like, that's why I get
Speaker 1: really frustrated when there's a lot of when when people
Speaker 1: you know, immediately go to Dog Jarrett or Evan in
Speaker 1: the wake of a poor rebounding game. And I've always
Speaker 1: found I've felt this for like four years. It's like, hey,
Speaker 1: everyone else has to help too, Like this is you know,
Speaker 1: you your favorite stat is that Mitchell Robinson didn't average
Speaker 1: ten rebounds against US two years ago.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Jared Allen, you know, he really nine and
Speaker 2: seven against the Knicks, going against some the head nine
Speaker 2: and nine.
Speaker 1: You know, like like it wasn't Mitchell Robinson that killed them.
Speaker 1: It was RJ. Barrett, it was Josh Hart. It was
Speaker 1: all these perimeter players swooping in while the caves either
Speaker 1: leaked out or ball watched. And you know that when
Speaker 1: we talk about fatal flaws or things that the team
Speaker 1: like just structurally isn't that good at you look up
Speaker 1: and down the roster and you don't see a lot
Speaker 1: of rebounders outside of the two bigs. You know, like
Speaker 1: Donovan is an okay rebounder for his position, Darius is
Speaker 1: not a good one, Okoro is not a good one.
Speaker 1: Struce's average hunter is below average. So like you look
Speaker 1: up and down the roster and you see, okay, this
Speaker 1: is a thing that like, no, you're not going to
Speaker 1: bail yourself out with just raw skill. And rebounding is
Speaker 1: a skill, yep. Is not an effort thing. It's part
Speaker 1: of it obviously, but consistently knowing what angle to chase,
Speaker 1: being in the right spot. You know, there there's a
Speaker 1: reason that some bigs go nuts and some don't. Why
Speaker 1: Josh Hart is a menace, and it's not just because
Speaker 1: of his motor He really has a keen sense for
Speaker 1: where to go to get rebounds. Yep. And I don't
Speaker 1: think that's something the Cabs are great at. So what
Speaker 1: do you want to see them do in that structure?
Speaker 1: You want to see them account for it with intentional
Speaker 1: decision making. You know, you want to counter with, hey, philosophically,
Speaker 1: we're going to help out the bigs today. Yep. And
Speaker 1: I felt like they really did that in this game,
Speaker 1: and it goes to show that you can overcome a
Speaker 1: talent gap with rebounding by collectively working towards a single goal.
Speaker 1: And I thought they did a great job of that tonight,
Speaker 1: and that's why I wanted to start with that.
Speaker 2: No, I think it's a great point. I think you know,
Speaker 2: it ties into what you were saying before. But every
Speaker 2: team is going to have some flaws. Even the Boston Celtics,
Speaker 2: who have, you know, a very expensive, very stacked roster,
Speaker 2: have their own flaws. It's just impossible. Particularly in this
Speaker 2: salary cap era, we basically have only seen one team
Speaker 2: that structurally has zero flaws, and that's the twenty seventeen Warriors, Right,
Speaker 2: And that was a Fluke scenario of all Flukes scenarios.
Speaker 2: To help construct that, you're going to have to find
Speaker 2: what those flaws are, understand that your opponents are going
Speaker 2: to understand those flaws, and do what needs to be
Speaker 2: done to mitigate that to make sure that it ends
Speaker 2: up not being a fatal flaw. Right, that you're taking
Speaker 2: some stuff off the table because you believe it brings
Speaker 2: more stuff onto the table. And this is why I
Speaker 2: like playing a team like the Clippers. Twice in a
Speaker 2: very short period of time. Yes, there was no Kawhi
Speaker 2: Leonard here, but the first time they played him, Zubach
Speaker 2: gave them a lot of trouble. Even though the Cavs won,
Speaker 2: these Zubach minutes, those offensive rebounds, there's a wear and
Speaker 2: tear effect to that. It's mentally draining, it's stopping you
Speaker 2: from getting out into transition. It's not what you want
Speaker 2: to see happen ten ten in terms of offensive rebounds totally.
Speaker 2: Even you also struggled against them going small last time.
Speaker 2: You just did not seem prepared to it. They didn't
Speaker 2: let them off the hook. That's an instance of the Clippers,
Speaker 2: you know, sacrificing some interior defense and exposing a flaw
Speaker 2: potentially in the roster to attack a different flaw for
Speaker 2: the Calves. Calves this time, much more prepared. They made
Speaker 2: them pay. They attacked them at the rim, They go
Speaker 2: outscored them by twenty points points in the paint, sixty
Speaker 2: two to forty two. Like that, that's what you want
Speaker 2: to see. I want to see adjustments. I want to see, Hey,
Speaker 2: the team did something to us, we didn't like it,
Speaker 2: and we hit them right back. We had the counters
Speaker 2: available and it wasn't hey, let's just go small when
Speaker 2: they go small, you know, we'll go a little deanweight
Speaker 2: at the five and play that style. No, we trust
Speaker 2: our bigs to be dominant in this situation. Let's force
Speaker 2: feed them. Let's make sure that we're running offense through them.
Speaker 2: Darius Garland and Donovan Mitchell seven to one assist a
Speaker 2: turnover ratio against a very active long defense. I loved
Speaker 2: what we saw from them. And to your point about
Speaker 2: you know, team efforting and gang rebounding here this has
Speaker 2: kind of flown under the radar. But we have eight
Speaker 2: straight games from Darius Garland where he has at least
Speaker 2: four rebounds. Ten of his last eleven games he has
Speaker 2: at least four rebounds, with a couple you know, with
Speaker 2: seven plus here.
Speaker 1: That is what you want to see.
Speaker 2: When you get sixteen rebounds from Darius Garland and Donovan
Speaker 2: Mitchell in a game which you know heavily carried by
Speaker 2: the twelve from Mitchell, that that is the type of
Speaker 2: buy and that's the understanding that, hey, we all have
Speaker 2: to be pulling in the same direction to you know,
Speaker 2: make up for what was a disadvantage in the previous matchup.
Speaker 2: And we've seen it before the All Star break, the
Speaker 2: Cavs were eighteenth in terms of defensive rebound rate. If
Speaker 2: that's where they are, like, you know, middle of the pack,
Speaker 2: that's fine. That's not a weakness, that's just not a strength.
Speaker 2: If they can keep it in that space, we should
Speaker 2: not have any problems, particularly when you look at the
Speaker 2: offensive rebound rates for the teams they're likely going to play. Okay,
Speaker 2: see bottom ten, Boston, eighteenth, Milwaukee dead last, Indiana not
Speaker 2: a particularly good offensive rebounding team. They're not going to
Speaker 2: get tested in those ways in all likelihood.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the best offensive rebounding teams are the upper middle
Speaker 1: class of the Western Conference. The Houston's, the Memphis is,
Speaker 1: the Minnesota's. I think Minnesota's up there either way, Like,
Speaker 1: those are the teams, and you're right, the Cavs aren't
Speaker 1: meant to play them and as such, like they just
Speaker 1: have to not be so bad that even an okay
Speaker 1: team at offensive rebound and cooks them.
Speaker 2: And more importantly, when you're playing Boston, Yeah, it's not
Speaker 2: a strength. But because it's not a strength, maybe you
Speaker 2: just do an extra good job on the defensive glass
Speaker 2: and don't give them, you know, if it's the difference
Speaker 2: between them getting nine offensive rebounds in a game and
Speaker 2: seven with the way they can shoot with how you know,
Speaker 2: Finn the margins are in terms of dethroning the NBA champions,
Speaker 2: that might be the difference in the series. Even though
Speaker 2: it's not a weakness, that just gives you an opportunity
Speaker 2: for it to be maybe a little bit more of
Speaker 2: a strength than it would be in another matchup if
Speaker 2: you commit yourself on that end.
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, I was yeah overall, just like this is
Speaker 1: what I want to see. I want to see them
Speaker 1: show that they can do it. Put it on tape.
Speaker 1: Sometimes when you're having a bad two three weeks in
Speaker 1: a row, you do kind of have this like, well,
Speaker 1: how are we supposed to dig out of this? You know?
Speaker 1: And like when you put it on tape when you
Speaker 1: really can, like and I hope you know, Like if
Speaker 1: I'm Kenny and I'm or I'm the film team at
Speaker 1: the Calves, I am running tape of all this gang
Speaker 1: rebounding to show how impactful it is on the defensive
Speaker 1: glass because I actually don't really care about the gang
Speaker 1: about offensive rebounding for anyone other than the bigs, Like
Speaker 1: I am happy to be a get back in transition
Speaker 1: team and if in Jarrett is the one that's fighting,
Speaker 1: you know, and trying to trying to extend some possessions.
Speaker 1: I don't need three four guys crashing the glass on
Speaker 1: offense to show how tough we are. But on defense,
Speaker 1: I do want to see that. I do want to
Speaker 1: see like just help, just be an extra body to
Speaker 1: tip the freaking ball to, or if the ball hits
Speaker 1: the ground off of a rebound, because all the bigs
Speaker 1: are in a fight, Darius can just swoop along the baseline,
Speaker 1: pick it up and start the break against an unbalanced defense.
Speaker 1: Like that's how you punish teams. Or crashing the glass
Speaker 1: is getting them, is getting the you know, gang rebounding,
Speaker 1: securing the board and going anyway. So yeah, I just
Speaker 1: wanted to start talking about that, the rebounding, because I
Speaker 1: really do think, no, it's not like, you know, the
Speaker 1: Clippers had zero, like you're still going to get some,
Speaker 1: but it's about not letting it kill you. It's about
Speaker 1: holding them into the you know, the the low were
Speaker 1: you know, third of the league. From an offensive rebound
Speaker 1: rate perspective, I would like to flip it to the
Speaker 1: other side. Of the ball though, justin Okay, and talk
Speaker 1: about our boy, Donnie Donovan Mitchell, who I thought, you know,
Speaker 1: another game where the three pointer wasn't great. I thought
Speaker 1: he played one of his best overall games this season.
Speaker 1: And the playmaking dude has been really really good as
Speaker 1: of late.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I honestly, I've been pretty happy with his last
Speaker 2: couple of games. I think he's moving well. I think,
Speaker 2: you know, a bit of a funk from three that
Speaker 2: that's kind of continued all of March here. It's not
Speaker 2: something I'm concerned about anymore. I was a little concerned
Speaker 2: about it. I think that he is playing really really
Speaker 2: intelligent basketball. I think he's picking his spots one to attack.
Speaker 2: It's going to be the odd time that he settles
Speaker 2: for three, But I still want to see him being
Speaker 2: aggressive and taking those right. And I think you saw
Speaker 2: late in the Detroit game and then late in this
Speaker 2: game again the Clippers, he starts hitting some of those
Speaker 2: right and that gives the Cavs so much momentum. And
Speaker 2: I don't want to see Donovan Mitchell ever shy away
Speaker 2: from the moment because his ability to not shoot well
Speaker 2: for three quarters but then explode in the fourth quarter
Speaker 2: is part of what makes him special. That's part of
Speaker 2: what gives you confidence with great, great players, and I
Speaker 2: totally agree. I think his play making has been phenomenal.
Speaker 2: I think he's been locked in on the defensive end.
Speaker 2: You're seeing some of those explosive plays that Donkey had
Speaker 2: against Detroit was, you know, eye popping. I'm just really
Speaker 2: really impressed with his play. And I gotta say, like,
Speaker 2: when I look at how the Guards have played recently
Speaker 2: these last couple of games, it's becoming less and less
Speaker 2: of a concern for me. Darius is shot well from
Speaker 2: three to the last couple of games. A couple of the
Speaker 2: floaters didn't go, But for the most part, I feel
Speaker 2: like he's been pretty efficient lately. Nothing that really looks
Speaker 2: concerning the fact that he's attacking the glass. The way
Speaker 2: that he is to me, indicates everything you know they're physically,
Speaker 2: and I just really hope that having two days off
Speaker 2: before this next game and finally getting that break is
Speaker 2: gonna be something that that pays dividends for this team.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I'll tell you what. If I'm Kenny Atkinson, I'm
Speaker 1: telling the team not to bother showing up to the
Speaker 1: facility to shoot around. Yeah, on on Wednesday. I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna say, hey, man, take care of your families, relax.
Speaker 1: If you want to come get a workout in and
Speaker 1: get your treatments, that's fine. But like, we ain't playing,
Speaker 1: we ain't running drills, we ain't doing we ain't doing
Speaker 1: a scout. We're just gonna We're gonna roll the ball
Speaker 1: out Wednesday morning and shoot around and go through the
Speaker 1: scout then. And I mean that's just me, That's what
Speaker 1: I would do. Who knows what they end up doing.
Speaker 1: But like, I think that this team has really shown
Speaker 1: you that when they are well rested, which is the
Speaker 1: nice thing about the playoffs to get a lot of
Speaker 1: opportunities for rest, yep, especially if you take care of
Speaker 1: your your opponents and take care of your series early on.
Speaker 1: But uh, but yeah, I think this team really does
Speaker 1: show that they they've done that. And I think you're
Speaker 1: right that Darius is moving around much better and looking
Speaker 1: very crispy. The floaters are still you know, a little
Speaker 1: hit and miss. I still think, you know, in this
Speaker 1: Clippers game, the one thing I will challenge is the
Speaker 1: degree of difficulty on them. He's still like some of
Speaker 1: them are from too far it's like that's yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean that's just where I'm at. It's like, brother, like
Speaker 1: you're playing against Zubac, He's gonna keep backpedaling, just going
Speaker 1: making backpedal one step more before you go up, you know,
Speaker 1: because you're gonna you're gonna take a thirty five percent
Speaker 1: floater up to a forty five percent floater with two
Speaker 1: extra steps. Like That's the thing with floaters is like
Speaker 1: every every foot further away from the rim, the degree
Speaker 1: of difficulty the curve is like exponential, you know, in
Speaker 1: terms of how hard it gets and less you Nicola
Speaker 1: Jokich apparently, and like so that is the one quote
Speaker 1: quibble I'll give is like brother, just keep making him backpedal,
Speaker 1: like yep. But like, overall, I do think the movements there,
Speaker 1: the playmaking has been really really strong. Last four games.
Speaker 1: He's got seventeen twenty five thirty two assists to a
Speaker 1: total of seven turnovers. Wow, Like that's really really good.
Speaker 1: I feel like he's got a lot of control the
Speaker 1: offense right now. And that's why I didn't really notice
Speaker 1: that he went five or fourteen today other than a
Speaker 1: few of those misfloaters.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, made up for it getting to
Speaker 2: the free throw line. It was really just that stretch
Speaker 2: in the third quarter. Looked like he had jammed his
Speaker 2: hand a little bit going for a defensive rebound at
Speaker 2: one point late in the second quarter. But you know,
Speaker 2: he looked fine. I thought the playmaking was really, really strong.
Speaker 2: You know, hit big shots in the fourth quarter, made
Speaker 2: the right pass.
Speaker 1: But I agree with you. I think you know.
Speaker 2: The main thesis there is don't make things harder than
Speaker 2: they need to be, right, don't don't take floaters.
Speaker 1: Kind of the story of Darius.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like you know, if they're plane drop and you
Speaker 2: have a pull up three, take it. Don't don't drive
Speaker 2: into a congested defense. Right, if you've got to an
Speaker 2: open lane, take the ten foot floater instead of fifteen
Speaker 2: foot floater. You don't need to make things more difficult.
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Speaker 1: I got it rich. I feel like you've really found
Speaker 1: your stride on the zoom AI reads. I think from
Speaker 1: you know, when we when we flipped over, I thought
Speaker 1: you were really, you know, bumbling in the dark a
Speaker 1: little bit on your segues. I really feel like you've
Speaker 1: gotten somewhere. It's you know, it's a little trickier. It's
Speaker 1: a little trickier. The support was so easy, so easy,
Speaker 1: but now you just gotta you know, you got to
Speaker 1: think about all the benefits, right, you gotta. Even if
Speaker 1: you want to.
Speaker 2: Compile some of those with AI, you can do that
Speaker 2: as well. But I thought the Calves, you know, were
Speaker 2: working happy, and a large part of that was how
Speaker 2: good the bigs were, Darius and Donovan.
Speaker 1: The playmaking was phenomenal.
Speaker 2: We've talked about that, but Jared Allen and Evan Mobley
Speaker 2: were phenomenal tonight. I really really feel like this was
Speaker 2: not only the best game from a process standpoint from
Speaker 2: the Calves in about a month, this was probably your
Speaker 2: best game from the core that we've had, right, and
Speaker 2: you're missing a significant bench punch from Ty Jerome having
Speaker 2: Jared Allen like some of the finishes he did like
Speaker 2: blew my mind, Like he had Zeubac going up and
Speaker 2: under the touch with some of those finishes, the steels
Speaker 2: were you know, he had the footwork, the little tiptoeing
Speaker 2: with the ball, Evan Mobley, you know, giving another defense
Speaker 2: player of the Year caliber performance. I just thought it
Speaker 2: was a terrific performance from the Bigs.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if there's any indication that you need to see
Speaker 1: that like that, you know, it's just March. Guys are tired.
Speaker 1: Like Jared's last three games. Thursday against the Spurs, plays
Speaker 1: thirty minutes, goes ten of eleven from the field, It's
Speaker 1: twenty nine points and fifteen rebounds. Then the next night
Speaker 1: he only makes it nineteen minutes against the Pistons, puts
Speaker 1: up eight and four as a complete non non factor.
Speaker 1: And then two days later against the Clippers, he puts
Speaker 1: up twenty five on eleven of twelve shooting in thirty
Speaker 1: one minutes and grabs twelve rebounds. So it's just just
Speaker 1: kind of funny to see, like how the highs and
Speaker 1: lows of like when your legs are a little dead,
Speaker 1: how that can kind of represent itself, and like some
Speaker 1: days you're feeling great and some days you're really not,
Speaker 1: and you know, I think that's okay. Here is a
Speaker 1: little bit of a tangent on this, because I will
Speaker 1: say something if I have a quibble with mister Atkinson's rotations,
Speaker 1: is I find that he often on nights where Jarrett
Speaker 1: doesn't have it, he'll just really pull the plug. You know,
Speaker 1: he'll have a nineteen minute night where he's barely playing
Speaker 1: at all because that like business game is close, Like
Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't close for the beginning of the
Speaker 1: fourth quarter, but it got close. And you know, I
Speaker 1: sometimes like I feel like there have been games where
Speaker 1: Jarrett doesn't quite have it, but then when he gets
Speaker 1: that fourth quarter shift after sitting a while, he's rejuvenated
Speaker 1: and sharp again, and it's like, hey, like we don't
Speaker 1: have to just be like, well, I guess Dean Wade's
Speaker 1: our backup five for Evan because Jarrett had a rough
Speaker 1: first half. And I'm not saying it's that reductive or
Speaker 1: that simplistic, but like I would, as you know, probably
Speaker 1: the most predominant Jared Allen supporter in the community, I
Speaker 1: just would like to see him get that extra shot
Speaker 1: in the fourth quarter and if it's still not there,
Speaker 1: all right, no harm, no foul, like go do something else.
Speaker 1: But like I just feel like sometimes we just we
Speaker 1: downshift really fast when things aren't going well, and I
Speaker 1: feel like it runs us away from our identity a
Speaker 1: little bit. I think it's a fair note.
Speaker 2: I you know, when some of this might be you know,
Speaker 2: self preservation given the stretch that they were going through.
Speaker 2: I'll be interested to see, you know, we in these
Speaker 2: last seven games here, how are we going to approach it?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: Are we going to test things out? Or are we
Speaker 2: going to try different lineups? You know, as much as
Speaker 2: I'd like to get some comfortable wins coming off of
Speaker 2: a stretch where the Cats weren't playing their best basketball,
Speaker 2: at the same time, like I kind of want to
Speaker 2: get you know, those data of all right, it's a
Speaker 2: late game situation. You're up five points with four minutes
Speaker 2: to go against the next Are you going to go
Speaker 2: two bigs? Are you going to close with DeAndre Hunter
Speaker 2: in that scenario? If Jared, as you said, didn't play
Speaker 2: particularly well the first couple of quarters, are you.
Speaker 1: Going to go back to him in that spot?
Speaker 2: I think Jared deserves a lot of credit for being
Speaker 2: ready no matter what it is, right, like, because I
Speaker 2: think what you're talking about there is the trust that
Speaker 2: they have that, hey, if you have sat for a
Speaker 2: while and we go to you, you're going to be ready.
Speaker 2: If you have sat for a while and we don't
Speaker 2: go back to you, you're still going to be bought,
Speaker 2: and you're still going to give that maximum effort the
Speaker 2: next game. There's no hard feelings with it. You're going
Speaker 2: to do what's best for the team. And that's a big,
Speaker 2: big credit to Jared Allen and you know, his mentality,
Speaker 2: his mental toughness, and his approach throughout the season because
Speaker 2: you know, there's games where everybody doesn't have it. It's
Speaker 2: just natural. It's part of the regular season, is part
Speaker 2: of the playoffs. But for him to you know, bounce back,
Speaker 2: to stay ready in a variety of different scenarios is
Speaker 2: going to be interesting. And I just I want to
Speaker 2: see I want to see some of these close games
Speaker 2: down down the stretch how they approach it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and uh, that's that's kind of you know basically
Speaker 1: my plea, which is like, hey, like I get among
Speaker 1: the core four, there's probably you know, a small dotted
Speaker 1: line under the three, and then Jared is the fourth.
Speaker 1: You know, I think we generally can acknowledge that, you know,
Speaker 1: the other three have a little bit more. I don't know,
Speaker 1: Panash some a little extra.
Speaker 2: All NBA candidates and All Star candidate. Right, yeah, like
Speaker 2: that's that's basically what it comes down here. That's a
Speaker 2: good way to frame it. But I feel like sometimes
Speaker 2: when he's not at his best, he's treated like a
Speaker 2: member of the rest of the roster, and I think
Speaker 2: he is, you know, like I just don't see a
Speaker 2: lot of fringe All Stars going just being like pulled
Speaker 2: off the floor just because they're having a rough first half.
Speaker 1: So that's my only note. And you know, again it's
Speaker 1: not fair because I'm not a coach. I'm not you know,
Speaker 1: I'm not sitting having to live with the consequences of
Speaker 1: rotational choices. And you know, ultimately this is a theoretical discussion.
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to be like Kenny's h jareded or
Speaker 1: something like that, but right, but like it's just if
Speaker 1: I were coach. If I were coaching, which as always think,
Speaker 1: God we're not, I would maybe do things a little
Speaker 1: little differently. What did you think of Evan's game tonight?
Speaker 1: Because I felt like he had a really really nice
Speaker 1: offensive night in kind of a quiet way. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: thought he picked his spots really well, you know the
Speaker 1: I like seeing him confidently taking those three poorners, particularly
Speaker 1: when when the defense is playing off of him going
Speaker 1: three of six from three, like that's it's funny that
Speaker 1: that isn't something that we're leading the podcast with. I
Speaker 1: feel like, if that happened last year, we're talking about,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, happy learned to pot like this is
Speaker 1: really exciting.
Speaker 2: But Evans had games like this where he's gotten a
Speaker 2: good number of threes up that's what the defense is
Speaker 2: giving up, and every single one of them felt like
Speaker 2: a good attempt. None felt rush. Sometimes it feels like
Speaker 2: you're settling maybe a little bit here. These are Hey,
Speaker 2: if I don't take this three and the defense is
Speaker 2: playing off of me to this extent, we're probably not
Speaker 2: getting a good shot on this possession. Because if I'm
Speaker 2: driving into a said defense or I'm kicking it to
Speaker 2: someone that is defendant because I'm not defended, odds are
Speaker 2: the shot clock's going to run down and someone's going
Speaker 2: to have to force up a difficult shot.
Speaker 1: So I love seeing him take those types of shots.
Speaker 2: But I also really love to see him, you know,
Speaker 2: not let the clippers off of the hook when they're
Speaker 2: playing Nick Batoome at center, or you know you got
Speaker 2: to switch.
Speaker 1: I'm going to attack that switch. I have a zoobotch
Speaker 1: on me. I don't care.
Speaker 2: I'm going to drive right through him and get an
Speaker 2: and one right Like, it wasn't just taking advantage of
Speaker 2: those small lineups. He was being aggressive no matter who
Speaker 2: his cover was and understanding what the defense was giving
Speaker 2: him and picking his spots. I thought it was a
Speaker 2: really really mature performance. And in addition to those twenty
Speaker 2: two points for assists right like, he's getting it done,
Speaker 2: he gets the three blocks. Just a fantastic performance from
Speaker 2: him all around.
Speaker 1: Yeah, one play that it really jumped out to me.
Speaker 1: And maybe I'm misremembering and I'm having a small crisis
Speaker 1: of confidence on my memory, but I remember the play
Speaker 1: where he got aboard and was pushing in transition and
Speaker 1: flowed straight into a transition pick and roll with Jared Allen,
Speaker 1: And I really really liked that play. Where we've seen
Speaker 1: Evan Ron pick and roll with Jared before and I
Speaker 1: feel like it always yields a really good result and
Speaker 1: kind of makes me wonder why we don't push that
Speaker 1: button a little more often, and especially in transition. Is
Speaker 1: one of the cavs great strengths, isn't that they have
Speaker 1: two skilled bigs, that they have two athletics skilled bigs
Speaker 1: that are really really good on their feet, really good
Speaker 1: catching the ball in the move, and you're asking a
Speaker 1: lot of times you're asking a power forward who's trying
Speaker 1: to pick up Evan in transition, and then the center
Speaker 1: who's trying to pick up Jared in transition to definitely
Speaker 1: navigate a pick and roll situation with very little institutional
Speaker 1: help around them because everyone else is trying to scramble
Speaker 1: to the corners trying to catch the trailer threes. No
Speaker 1: one gets to really pay that much attention to that action.
Speaker 1: And I think a transition flow for them into a
Speaker 1: pick and roll is kind of the best way to
Speaker 1: do it. Like I feel like most of the time
Speaker 1: we've seen them run pick and roll, it's been a
Speaker 1: very like Evan caught the ball at the elbow, Jared
Speaker 1: comes up from the opposite block, and they set like
Speaker 1: basically a it'll compressed screen and roll, which is cool
Speaker 1: because they're good passers. They get good results there but
Speaker 1: like I do think it's short circuits a lot of
Speaker 1: BIG's brains trying to figure out how to navigate that action,
Speaker 1: because that's where size and smarts get wiped out by
Speaker 1: coordination and foot speed. And I think that's like that's
Speaker 1: Evan and Jarrett's superpower more than anything else. So yeah,
Speaker 1: just a little thing. I wanted to note that I
Speaker 1: really really liked that they did that, and I want
Speaker 1: to see more of it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the type of thing that you have to
Speaker 2: be playing with tempo in order to take advantage of
Speaker 2: those types of looks, right, and I thought the cast
Speaker 2: did a great job with that against the Clippers thirty
Speaker 2: to eight edge in fast break points. You know, I
Speaker 2: still feel, you know, on the subject of who you
Speaker 2: close with and all that, I'm fine with some games,
Speaker 2: Hey we're closing with DeAndre or even DeAndre and Dean
Speaker 2: along with Evan. I'm sure there's going to be matchups
Speaker 2: or certain games where that's advantageous. But I still feel
Speaker 2: like what makes the Cavs unique, what makes them special,
Speaker 2: is their ability to play with the two bigs that
Speaker 2: are not only able to play with size, but they're
Speaker 2: able to play with a tremendous amount of skill. And
Speaker 2: I think it's important remembering that, you know, we did
Speaker 2: close against Okay, see, we have closed against Boston with
Speaker 2: the two Bigs and won those games. We have done
Speaker 2: this in a lot of kind of big matchups against
Speaker 2: very very good teams that we've found success with it.
Speaker 2: So as much as now we have a valid option
Speaker 2: in DeAndre Hunter to potentially, you know, scale down and
Speaker 2: play a small ball style, and some games are going
Speaker 2: to call for that, I do think it's important to
Speaker 2: not move away from what makes you unique and what
Speaker 2: your identity is too easily. You don't want to, you know,
Speaker 2: take away one of your advantages without the other team
Speaker 2: really forcing your hand.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean again, we've said this before, but one
Speaker 1: of the reasons neither one of the reasons neither of
Speaker 1: us really liked what the Knicks did this summer was
Speaker 1: we felt like they just turned themselves into a worse
Speaker 1: version of the Boston Celtics, you know, in terms of
Speaker 1: losing a lot of their downhill players and going getting
Speaker 1: a lot of dudes who are side to side you know,
Speaker 1: okay shooters, but not great shooters, and and like I
Speaker 1: feel like they kind of gave up the thing that
Speaker 1: made them really unique and special in an attempt to
Speaker 1: get a little more conventionally built. And I think as
Speaker 1: much as I've you know, really enjoyed the DeAndre Hunter
Speaker 1: experience so far, I still like most of the lineups
Speaker 1: where I feel like I'm and this is kind of
Speaker 1: where I want to flow into a DeAndre Hunter conversation,
Speaker 1: because he's been used a ton at the four. I mean,
Speaker 1: he's basically just replaced Nyang in the rotation. You know,
Speaker 1: Tyjier rome Is and Sam Merrill have replaced karrisl in
Speaker 1: the rotation. Yep. And even when I've really liked Hunner
Speaker 1: lineups normally there with with like Dean Waite, yeah you know,
Speaker 1: or you know, or or another big player like and
Speaker 1: another defender like Okoro or something on the floor, I
Speaker 1: just feel like that's still not your superpower is not
Speaker 1: going to DeAndre Hunter at the four and downshifting. I
Speaker 1: feel like that's a great extra look to throw at someone,
Speaker 1: but like I just generally like I would I would
Speaker 1: rather see them up shift in size and play Hunter
Speaker 1: at the three with those guys, with that with those
Speaker 1: core four than the inverse of downshifting, because again, I
Speaker 1: just think that's that's not what makes them unique, and
Speaker 1: I'm always going to be predisposed to what makes this
Speaker 1: team unique.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know, it's funny when when people talk about, hey,
Speaker 2: I want to see a down shifting, usually it's oh, like,
Speaker 2: you know, Jonas found Chunessy is beating up Jared, like
Speaker 2: we got to go small here, And no, that's not
Speaker 2: solving that issue. You're you're going to be more prone
Speaker 2: to giving up offensive rebounds when you're doing that, particularly
Speaker 2: when you're doing it with three guards. It's one of
Speaker 2: the things that gives me just a little bit of
Speaker 2: pause heading into the playoffs is I think that playing
Speaker 2: DeAndre at the three is something that we're going to
Speaker 2: need to do at times, and I just don't feel
Speaker 2: like we're getting a lot of reps of it.
Speaker 1: And that just I think he's versatile.
Speaker 2: I think, you know, the basketball i Q is so
Speaker 2: high with the cores and DeAndre has fits so well
Speaker 2: in the minutes that they have had. But even tonight,
Speaker 2: like I think they had a four or five possession
Speaker 2: stretch where they played together, whereas the core four and
Speaker 2: DeAndre Hunter, you're not really learning a whole lot from
Speaker 2: those minutes, right, Like, it's going to accumulate, and I
Speaker 2: think those minutes went well, so it'll go on top
Speaker 2: of you know, the fifty three that they've had together
Speaker 2: already to this point this season. But I just feel
Speaker 2: like you're just not going to have enough experience with that,
Speaker 2: and maybe it's something that hey, we're going to figure
Speaker 2: out in the first two rounds of the playoffs. They're
Speaker 2: going to get their chance to get reps. It's going
Speaker 2: to be a pretty natural fit. Playing alongside these guys
Speaker 2: has helped them him learn their tendencies, and it doesn't
Speaker 2: really matter how much time they've had together as a
Speaker 2: five sume. But it's not even just about that lineup
Speaker 2: as a five some. It's as you said, playing him
Speaker 2: with Dean Wade at the four, along with Evan Mobley
Speaker 2: or Jared Allen, Like I think that that's a unique
Speaker 2: look that the Cats can have to have a lot
Speaker 2: of length, to have a lot of defensive versatility and help,
Speaker 2: you know, account for the fact that, hey, maybe Sam
Speaker 2: Merril's playing at the two and we have Darius Garland
Speaker 2: out there or Tie Jerome along with Garland or Mitchell,
Speaker 2: and you know, you have some vulnerabilities there with the guards,
Speaker 2: Like I just I'd like to see a little bit
Speaker 2: more experimentation with that. And I just feel like, as
Speaker 2: you said, he's basically replaced Niang as the backup power forward.
Speaker 2: I was expecting just a little bit more small forward.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I also think doing that will allow you
Speaker 1: to give him some more run, right as a member
Speaker 1: of the in March, he's averaging twenty four minutes a game,
Speaker 1: Like that's not too far away from the Sam Merrill's
Speaker 1: of the world. That's not too far. I mean George
Speaker 1: Niang was averaging twenty point six, so like it's a
Speaker 1: couple more minutes than the Yang. He's not playing a
Speaker 1: tremendous amount more, you know, And like part of that
Speaker 1: is like just no one plays that many minutes, Like
Speaker 1: is that you know? Strus is at twenty five, Jared's
Speaker 1: at twenty eight and a half, which is crazy. By
Speaker 1: the way, I think he's down that low. He didn't
Speaker 1: realize he was that far below thirty at this point.
Speaker 1: So it's like part of this is like just what
Speaker 1: it is to play for Kenny Atkinson. But I do
Speaker 1: think there's some room to borrow some I mean some
Speaker 1: of those if you borrow I don't know. Let's say
Speaker 1: three to four Sam Merril minutes in the rotation where
Speaker 1: Sam is playing at that functional three next to a
Speaker 1: duo of Darius, Donovan and Tie. He's still three four
Speaker 1: three three more of those minutes, and all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: DeAndre is getting you know, maybe maybe still the majority
Speaker 1: of his minutes are going to come at the four,
Speaker 1: just because of how the team is kind of constructed,
Speaker 1: but it's You're now getting more opportunities for reps at
Speaker 1: the small forward, and I think that's something I'd like
Speaker 1: to see.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know, I thought with Maxterius out against Detroit,
Speaker 2: maybe that was an opportunity. Like I thought, oh yeah,
Speaker 2: my brain just defaulted to DeAndre Hunter is going to
Speaker 2: start in that spot. But then I was thinking, I
Speaker 2: was like, there's no Ty Jerome coming in off the bench.
Speaker 2: If you start DeAndre Hunter, you have like no real
Speaker 2: scoring punch coming in off the bench. I thought that
Speaker 2: was actually an understandable decision by Kenny Atkinson going with
Speaker 2: Isaac o Core. That lineup's been really good as well,
Speaker 2: and you need to have a little bit of that
Speaker 2: scoring punch. Honestly, to me, it really doesn't come down
Speaker 2: to the just starting. It's just let's try to prioritize
Speaker 2: finding some time to get him a little more reps
Speaker 2: at the three, where your position on the court is
Speaker 2: going to be a little different when you're playing at
Speaker 2: the small forward. So it'll be interesting to see if
Speaker 2: that's something that we do do over the last seven
Speaker 2: games here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, these are all quibbles, and these
Speaker 1: are all things that it's like, on one hand, I
Speaker 1: really wanted the Cavs, you know, to your point about
Speaker 1: Okoro starting, Like, on one hand, I was grumpy that
Speaker 1: Hunter didn't get the start because I wanted to see
Speaker 1: more of those minutes. But then at the same time,
Speaker 1: I also really wanted the Cavs to win a couple
Speaker 1: of games. So can he feels like getting a win
Speaker 1: is important, then he's going to try to balance his
Speaker 1: rotation in a way that makes him play lineups that
Speaker 1: he thinks are going to help him win, not just
Speaker 1: the first quarter in the end of the game, but
Speaker 1: you know, the middle of the first, the beginning of
Speaker 1: the second. He's got to build a rotation that works
Speaker 1: written large. So yeah, so that's my DeAndre DeAndre thoughts
Speaker 1: in general in terms of how he's used and he
Speaker 1: thoughts about his play last ten games, it's been a
Speaker 1: little cooler. He's he's averaging thirteen points on twenty four
Speaker 1: minutes a game, slashing forty eight percent from the field,
Speaker 1: thirty six from three, and eighty five from the line,
Speaker 1: getting the old line only two point six times a game,
Speaker 1: the rebounding about where it's always been about three point six,
Speaker 1: only one assist to one turnover, one steal. Feels like
Speaker 1: the impact has been a little lower. That's been reflected
Speaker 1: in the plus minus. Is this a little bit of
Speaker 1: the well, this is the kind of you know, you know,
Speaker 1: there's a reason they were able to get him for
Speaker 1: the price they got him, and that he's been somewhat
Speaker 1: of an inconsistent player. Like what do you think about
Speaker 1: his last run of play. I've been mostly fine with it.
Speaker 2: Like I think it comes down to what percentage of
Speaker 2: his threes is he hitting right? And particularly with him,
Speaker 2: you know, still getting comfortable within the offense and the defense.
Speaker 2: There's occasional the occasional miscommunication and things like that, But
Speaker 2: in terms of like the on off numbers and things
Speaker 2: like that, I think it's really Hey, you know, he's
Speaker 2: not making as many threes, but I'm still feeling pretty
Speaker 2: good about his minutes. I like some of the isolation
Speaker 2: looks that he takes, the pull ups from mid range.
Speaker 2: I think that that's something that.
Speaker 1: The Cavs pred we promised, Yeah, like that was something
Speaker 1: that needed to be within their offensive portfolio, and I
Speaker 1: just don't think that it was before. So I have
Speaker 1: a little I have a one more note on the
Speaker 1: small forward front. Another reason I like it more post
Speaker 1: tup opportunities against smaller when teams are a little smaller
Speaker 1: at the three and the four. Instead of playing you know,
Speaker 1: a like sized four at six', eight you might be you,
Speaker 1: know getting to post up a Bug Dan, Bogdanovic, Right
Speaker 1: and like that's a good that's a good outcome for.
Speaker 1: Us that's a good. Win that's a win for, us
Speaker 1: especially late in the shot clock if your first couple
Speaker 1: actions have been. DENIED i don't feel like him posting
Speaker 1: up against power. Forwards it yields the same level of.
Speaker 2: Advantage, yeah and you, know when it comes to the,
Speaker 2: playoffs particularly When i'm thinking about playing Against okay see
Speaker 2: or playing Against, boston, Right like you're dealing with a
Speaker 2: lot of length out, THERE i think WHO i want
Speaker 2: to be, Playing like from an on paper, standpoint WHO
Speaker 2: i want to be playing small? Forward it is De Andre,
Speaker 2: Hunter It's Max, Druce It's Isaac. Okoro those are the
Speaker 2: three main. Ones in the, past it probably would have
Speaker 2: Said Dean. Wade but we have De Andre hunter, now
Speaker 2: and Like i'm perfectly fine With dan plan could.
Speaker 1: BE i don't Think dean needs to play a second
Speaker 1: at small forward the rest of the season if if everyone's.
Speaker 2: Healthy, No AND i think power forward has been his best,
Speaker 2: position like the for or his own, impact for his own,
Speaker 2: production like what he can do defensively on this for.
Speaker 1: Forever, yeah it's that's that's the best spot for For Dean.
Speaker 2: Wade so even if that's coming Alongside DeAndre, HUNTER i
Speaker 2: think that that's a great look that they can. Give
Speaker 2: and you, KNOW i think there's enough variety with what
Speaker 2: each of these guys bring to the table that it
Speaker 2: justifies giving them all all those, opportunities, Right LIKE i
Speaker 2: think you saw, Tonight Max struce did not have a
Speaker 2: great shooting. GAME i thought it was a great game
Speaker 2: For Max. DREWS i thought the way he attacked the,
Speaker 2: glass the connective playmaking just the smarts he plays, With
Speaker 2: like he is exactly what you want from a role
Speaker 2: player in terms of completing, lineups playing very HIGH iq,
Speaker 2: style playing with an, edge you, know raising the team's collective.
Speaker 2: Edge Max strews brings a lot to the Table Isaaca.
Speaker 2: Korro he's getting better and better rolling to the basket
Speaker 2: and finishing in those, situations making passes in those. SPOTS
Speaker 2: i think the way he's attacking the glasses better than.
Speaker 2: EVER i love tonight seeing oh the airball is first,
Speaker 2: three the next one's and above the breakthree that he,
Speaker 2: cashes and then he hits his next two three. Pointers,
Speaker 2: LIKE i think the confidence in what he's doing out
Speaker 2: there is higher than it's ever. BEEN i feel great about.
Speaker 2: It And DeAndre, hunter, yeah there's going to be you,
Speaker 2: know ebbs and flows in terms of his overall, efficiency
Speaker 2: BUT i feel like the types of shots he's taking
Speaker 2: and the role he plays within the team has been
Speaker 2: really steady despite, That AND i think that's really really
Speaker 2: important to know exactly what you're getting from a role,
Speaker 2: player or at least you know what types of shots
Speaker 2: he's going to be, taking make or, Miss like that's
Speaker 2: that's the nature of the.
Speaker 1: Game that is what it. Is it's not Something i'm
Speaker 1: going to stress. Over, yeah you are very right on
Speaker 1: the short roll. Stuff, man he has been so so.
Speaker 1: Good he is making the right decision nine times out of.
Speaker 1: Ten you can tell the defense every. Time and like
Speaker 1: that is one of those things that you do wonder
Speaker 1: a little bit on the scout in a playoff series
Speaker 1: like Where you've got because there's Ever i'm telling you right,
Speaker 1: now every single role possession For isaac O corol and
Speaker 1: the pick and roll was a surprise to the other. Team,
Speaker 1: yeah sure so far this? Season what page on the
Speaker 1: scout do you think that? Is?
Speaker 2: Though, like do You you're, Right you're right that they're
Speaker 2: going to expect. It they're going to be, Like, Okay Isaacle,
Speaker 2: corro he's been playing, more you, know his shooting, garden
Speaker 2: small forward to use him as a screener in the,
Speaker 2: spot mind the dunker spot and all. THAT i still
Speaker 2: feel like they're going to live with him as the.
Speaker 1: Role, YEAH i get, that but they're at least gonna
Speaker 1: be paying it like. That that's where the difference between
Speaker 1: a playoff scout and a regular season scout like. Matters
Speaker 1: like some film coordinator is going to be like in
Speaker 1: In Jamal moseley's ear in the first, round being like
Speaker 1: watch the Old coro short, Role like you know it's
Speaker 1: gonna come. Up you just know, it because the Four
Speaker 1: kid's gonna, watch you, know nine straight hours OF calvs
Speaker 1: tape getting ready for this. Game you, know some some new,
Speaker 1: hire some intern on the, staff Some Eric spolstra in
Speaker 1: training is going to be keying in on this stuff
Speaker 1: and mentioning. It so like that is the. Difference so we'll,
Speaker 1: see if you, know one how much run he gets
Speaker 1: in the. POSTSEASON i still if you, were you, know
Speaker 1: to ask me right this, second WHO i thought would
Speaker 1: be the odd man out in the rotation in the.
Speaker 1: Postseason It's isaac Or dean Because sam has been consistently
Speaker 1: getting the. Minutes So i'll be real surprised to See
Speaker 1: sam just disappear or fall way off or at, MOST i,
Speaker 1: think and he will run the exact same rotation he's been,
Speaker 1: running at least in the first round until someone makes
Speaker 1: him not because clearly he wants to play ten. Guys but,
Speaker 1: yeah like, so but like those are the things you
Speaker 1: really want to see to Help bowie his playoff minutes
Speaker 1: where you're not just being, like, well hope he gets
Speaker 1: a couple of easy ones in, transition or hope the
Speaker 1: threes go. In, Yeah like that's the kind of stuff
Speaker 1: where it's, Like, okay can you rely on that in
Speaker 1: a more high leverage. ENVIRONMENT i don't.
Speaker 2: Know we'll, See, yeah we'll, see you, know if he's
Speaker 2: able to hit the offensive glass and get some extra,
Speaker 2: possessions you, know get kind of those disruptive, steals the
Speaker 2: pick sixes and stuff like, that that makes a big, difference,
Speaker 2: Right AND i do think if i'm you, know If
Speaker 2: i'm a betting man, here What Kenny atkinson's going to
Speaker 2: do in the. PLAYOFFS i do, think particularly in the
Speaker 2: first half of, games particularly in the first, round we're
Speaker 2: probably going to see a very very similar. Rotation AND
Speaker 2: i think the question is going to be who earns
Speaker 2: their second half minutes within that first, Half, LIKE i
Speaker 2: think you're going to see a little less rigid lineups
Speaker 2: in the second half of. Games but you're, right it's
Speaker 2: hard to imagine a world where we just dramatically change
Speaker 2: up how we're deploying this roster once we get to the.
Speaker 1: Postseason, yeah real, quick just folded Up Isaako korro is
Speaker 1: one of the funniest basketball reference pages in the world
Speaker 1: because it was a thing we were giggling about two years,
Speaker 1: ago is that he had three straight years of ten
Speaker 1: point seven points per thirty six and then last year
Speaker 1: he bumps up to twelve point three and we're, like,
Speaker 1: ah he finally he's moving. Up he's down to ten point.
Speaker 1: Eight he hits so close to exactly the same for
Speaker 1: thirty six points for four out of five. SEASONS i
Speaker 1: can't imagine there's ever been a player in the history
Speaker 1: of the sport that has been that close to the
Speaker 1: same points per thirty. Six you know that four out
Speaker 1: of five.
Speaker 2: Years the real shame, is you, know in his eleven
Speaker 2: minutes and he had eleven. Points so that's going to
Speaker 2: that's going to bump that up a little. Bit if you,
Speaker 2: know if he missed another three or, two he might
Speaker 2: have went down to that ten point seven. Again that's
Speaker 2: that's truly one of the, coolest the weirdest.
Speaker 1: Ever what a.
Speaker 2: Guy and the other THING i really enjoy about, it
Speaker 2: he's almost got a little bit That Jose caldern syndrome
Speaker 2: where The Toronto raptors tried to Replace Jose calderon year after,
Speaker 2: year whether you know It's Jared, Bayless Jared, jack all
Speaker 2: these different guys they brought into to replace, him Even
Speaker 2: Kyle laria at the, start And Jose, calderon whether it be,
Speaker 2: injuries whether it be his own, play he would go
Speaker 2: out there and he'd end up starting about half of the.
Speaker 2: Games same thing happens For Isaac. Okorol you know when he.
Speaker 1: Starts to Think isaac has this, YEAR i guess like twenty,
Speaker 1: five twenty one out of his forty eight. Games, yeah to, me,
Speaker 1: laugh it's, Crazy and this year.
Speaker 2: He just finds ways into the starting, lineup and those
Speaker 2: lineups always, Good like it's just one of those things, like.
Speaker 1: Man that's that's. Crazy you're, right it's about how, weird
Speaker 1: what a weird Career isaac has said it really.
Speaker 2: Is But i'm happy he's. Here i'm happy he's doing lot. More,
Speaker 2: Yeah i'm here for more minutes From isaac. Occorrel but you,
Speaker 2: know there's seven games. Left as you, said the magic
Speaker 2: numbers four for people that don't, know that means four more,
Speaker 2: wins And, CARTER i can't believe you struggled with this.
Speaker 1: Math but seven games means four and. THREE i couldn't
Speaker 1: remember how many games we have left because my brain was. Breaking,
Speaker 1: well you know.
Speaker 2: We, seven, okay so four. Games no matter what happens
Speaker 2: with The Boston, celtics if we win four more, games
Speaker 2: we get the number one seed in The Eastern. Conference
Speaker 2: it's important to note because they split the season, series
Speaker 2: next tiebreaker for these two teams is the record versus
Speaker 2: The Eastern. Conference right, now The cavs are thirty eight
Speaker 2: and nine against The Eastern conference with five games. Left
Speaker 2: boston is thirty five and, eleven so they have two
Speaker 2: more losses against The. East so if you're going to
Speaker 2: pick and choose which games you really want to, win
Speaker 2: it's the ones against The Eastern. Conference The cavs play
Speaker 2: the next, twice The pacers, twice and The. Bulls all
Speaker 2: five of those games should be in interesting tests with
Speaker 2: teams That knicks aren't playing particularly, well but The pacers
Speaker 2: are playing great and The bulls have.
Speaker 1: Been playing really well.
Speaker 2: Lately so you, KNOW i wanted to, say if The
Speaker 2: celtics ran the table against The Eastern, conference The cavs
Speaker 2: would just have to win four of those five games
Speaker 2: against The, east but it doesn't really matter that it's
Speaker 2: the four against The east four because it's just four
Speaker 2: wins no matter. What BUT i still thought it was
Speaker 2: interesting for.
Speaker 1: People that it loses one of their games against The,
Speaker 1: east the magic number becomes. Three so it just doesn't. Matter, yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah it all just becomes the nice win here this
Speaker 1: far into this, year and it's, like just win four, games.
Speaker 2: Guys, yeah it's it's a four and a half game
Speaker 2: lead with seven games. LEFT i understand that people got,
Speaker 2: anxious but function, like feel free to clip this.
Speaker 1: If i'm, wrong but they've got the number one seed locked. Up.
Speaker 1: Stop it would be a phenomenal uh issue if they didn't.
Speaker 2: Lock it, up AND i would take one hundred. Responsibility
Speaker 2: so you, guys clip. That feel feel free to throw
Speaker 2: it back in my face If i'm. Wrong but you
Speaker 2: know that we've been doing this for eight, Years. CARTER
Speaker 2: i don't Think i've been wrong.
Speaker 1: Once not not a. Once every single win makes me
Speaker 1: feel more, comfy you. Know and so a two days
Speaker 1: off game against The knicks at home in the NEXT
Speaker 1: i believe are also off the next two, Days no they.
Speaker 1: Play oh they're on a back to, back, Baby there you,
Speaker 1: go a road back to. Back that's. Great so, yeah
Speaker 1: they better win On. Wednesday they.
Speaker 2: Should you, know comfy cozy is he still out part of?
Speaker 2: Me brunson is still out, RIGHT i think so maybe
Speaker 2: there's a chance he.
Speaker 1: Did not, play did not play.
Speaker 2: Tonight so, well you, know there's gonna be tests, that
Speaker 2: there's gonna be. Opportunities as you, said cads are gonna
Speaker 2: be nice and cozy at, home finally getting a little
Speaker 2: bit of a. Rest we'll see if it bears some
Speaker 2: fruit and they're able to build off what they did
Speaker 2: against The, clippers BECAUSE i really did think that this
Speaker 2: was a positive win coming off a very frustrating loss
Speaker 2: against The Detroit.
Speaker 1: Pistons absolutely, WELL i actually are. YOU i wasn't frustrated at.
Speaker 1: ALL i just felt like a schedule. Loss to, me
Speaker 1: that was the most Frustrated i've been with the.
Speaker 2: Game AND i understood that was a schedule, loss but
Speaker 2: there were too many times in that game WHERE i was, like,
Speaker 2: Oh detroit's making us earn it at the, line and
Speaker 2: the trip to the line did not. Come AND i
Speaker 2: thought that The cavs got very frustrated and we lost
Speaker 2: a little bit of our. Composure BUT i also was
Speaker 2: losing my composure because that game drove me absolutely. Insane
Speaker 2: but you, know they showed some toughness fighting back at the.
Speaker 2: End but that was a very very frustrating game against
Speaker 2: a very very physical.
Speaker 1: Team that's. FAIR i just WAS i kind of washed
Speaker 1: my hands of that one at the. Beginning.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well you, know sometimes SOMETIMES i have a cooler.
Speaker 1: Head sometimes it's.
Speaker 2: You that was one of those instances WHERE i did
Speaker 2: not handle that one well even.
Speaker 1: THOUGH i understood all the.
Speaker 2: Fact good, partners, Buddy hell, yeah, buddy Big thanks to
Speaker 2: everyone that tuned in live on. YouTube we appreciate you.
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Speaker 1: Cavs