1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:04,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class from house 2 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: stuff Works dot com. Hello, we're welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 1: I'm from and I'm Tracy Wilson. And Um, So there's 4 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:21,680 Speaker 1: that stereotype. We talked about it a little bit in 5 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: our math episode, in our episode about algebra, about women 6 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 1: lacking mathematical proclivity and not having much business sense. But 7 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:34,239 Speaker 1: those stereotypes were completely obliterated by today's topic. And in 8 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:37,160 Speaker 1: the mid eighteen hundreds, before many people were talking about 9 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 1: obliterating those stereotypes, she was seen as a peer and 10 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: an equal to many of Wall Street's you know, heaviest 11 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 1: hitting financiers, and she really opened the door to the 12 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 1: idea that women could succeed in finance. But despite her 13 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 1: immense success in these really admirable accomplishments, it's kind of 14 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 1: difficult to like heavy green um who is who we're 15 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 1: talking about today, And as is often the case with 16 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: people who are extremely driven or really gifted in one 17 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: way or in one area, the areas outside of her 18 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 1: uh life that fell outside of like finance and building 19 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: her fortune really often suffered. And that included her family, 20 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:18,760 Speaker 1: which is part of why it's kind of hard to 21 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: like her, and we'll we'll get to a specific incident 22 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 1: as we go on, But she's sort of fascinating in 23 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:26,119 Speaker 1: that regard. She's one of those people that you can't 24 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 1: help but be fascinated by. But there is a certain 25 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 1: sort of like, I don't know if revulsion is the 26 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:36,119 Speaker 1: right word, but there's a you can't help but wins 27 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:38,039 Speaker 1: a little bit at some of the things that happened 28 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:41,319 Speaker 1: in her life because of her obsession with building the 29 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: family fortune. Uh. So we will kick it off and 30 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 1: start just at the beginning, as we usually do, with 31 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 1: her early childhood and her birth and her family. Hetty 32 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 1: was born Henrietta Holland Robinson on November twenty one, eighteen 33 00:01:56,280 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 1: thirty four, in New Bedford, Massachusetts. Her mother was Abby Holland, 34 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 1: who can trace her family directly back to the Mayflower, 35 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:09,360 Speaker 1: and her father was Edward Mott Robinson. And Hetty's mother 36 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 1: is uh said to have been quite dismayed that she 37 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 1: did not have a son to be an heir to 38 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:18,240 Speaker 1: the family fortune. Uh. And so she also sent Hetty 39 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 1: to live with her grandfather when she was still a 40 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:23,239 Speaker 1: very small child, import in part because Abby was in 41 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:25,520 Speaker 1: very poor health. So Hetty was not terribly close to 42 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 1: her mother. As a result, Hetty spent most of her 43 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 1: childhood with the men in the family, and she learned 44 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:35,839 Speaker 1: about business and money management from her father and her grandfather. 45 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: The two of them were partners in a whaling company, 46 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 1: which did quite well. Her father was an excellent and 47 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 1: astute businessman who said to have increased the family's fiscal 48 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:52,800 Speaker 1: fortunes twentyfold, and right out of the gate, Hetty was 49 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:57,239 Speaker 1: really into money as a concept. She opened her first 50 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:00,240 Speaker 1: savings account when she was only eight years old, and 51 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: two years after that she was sent to boarding school, 52 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:06,359 Speaker 1: although she wasn't terribly interested in it. She talks in 53 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 1: interviews about how she um kind of like went ahead 54 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: and like trudged through, but she didn't really like it uh, 55 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 1: And soon she was really uh back with her male elders, 56 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 1: reading the financial pages at home and feeling like she 57 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: was getting a much better education in that regard. One 58 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 1: of the stories about her is that her father set 59 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 1: her up with a whole new, expensive wardrobe for her 60 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:34,639 Speaker 1: formal society presentation, but she sold all of her new 61 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 1: clothes and instead invested the money. And Hetty's mother passed 62 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 1: away when Uh. When the heiress, Hetty was only twenty 63 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 1: five and her newly single father decided to move to 64 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 1: New York for from Connecticut, and Hetty followed because you know, 65 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 1: at this point in his life, even though he was 66 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 1: a little bit older, he was still considered an eligible 67 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 1: bachelor as a widower. Uh. And there's some pretty significant 68 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 1: speculation that Ye's motivation for following her father was to 69 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: ensure that she was not forgotten and left out of 70 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 1: the family fortune in the event that he remarried and 71 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 1: started a new family. When her father and her aunt 72 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 1: both died in the same year, Hetty, who was thirty 73 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:18,600 Speaker 1: one at the time, was poised to inherit the family fortune. 74 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:22,599 Speaker 1: The general opinion of her male relatives was that she 75 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: would have been better off with her money in a 76 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:29,720 Speaker 1: trust and with the male relative managing things, and all 77 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 1: of that had been arranged for in the wills for 78 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 1: both of the wills in question. Yeah, she actually was 79 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 1: not given as much in her aunt's will as she 80 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 1: had hoped. Uh. And that comes up a little bit 81 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 1: more in just a bit. But as a woman, you know, 82 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 1: in the mid eighteen hundreds, even though she had grown 83 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: up with these two men who were really quite established 84 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 1: financiers and quite good at handling money, and they had 85 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 1: talked with her a great deal about it. She was 86 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:57,239 Speaker 1: still perceived as just being unable to handle the demands 87 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 1: of managing any sort of wealth. But Hetty was very headstrong. 88 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:03,480 Speaker 1: She was very confident in her abilities to handle her 89 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 1: own fortune. You know, she'd been keeping accounts for her father, 90 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:09,600 Speaker 1: and she had been reading stock quotes to her grandfather 91 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 1: every night from the paper since she was a very 92 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 1: young child. And so she mounted a lawsuit against the 93 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 1: trustees of her father's will, and she actually took legal 94 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:22,039 Speaker 1: action to break her aunt's will, uh, which was a 95 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 1: newer version than the one she said she had last seen. 96 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 1: She did manage to wrangle a million dollars of her 97 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: father's fortune in eighteen sixty five, and later on she 98 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 1: procured part of her aunt's estate. Eventually, after much arguing 99 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:42,799 Speaker 1: and litigation, she reached an income arrangement from a trust 100 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:45,800 Speaker 1: and she ended up with somewhere between six million dollars 101 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 1: and seven million dollars between the two estates. That's not 102 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 1: adjusted to today's value, though, that is eighteen sixties dollars, 103 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 1: So it was a really, really huge fortune. Yeah, she 104 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:00,840 Speaker 1: she had plenty of money. I mean, it's one of 105 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 1: those things where even you know today obviously if someone 106 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:05,599 Speaker 1: had six million dollars to be in pretty good shapes, 107 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 1: so you can imagine a hundred and fifty years ago, 108 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:11,719 Speaker 1: and that was like uh. And as all of this 109 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:14,279 Speaker 1: legal back and forth over her inheritance was dragging on, 110 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 1: particularly the stuff with her aunt's will, Hetty actually got married. 111 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 1: She married Edward Henry Green, and this was in eighteen 112 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 1: sixty seven and Hetty was thirty three at the time. 113 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 1: Green was a silk trader and he served on the 114 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:30,920 Speaker 1: board of a bank, but his business and Hetty's did 115 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 1: not mingle. The pair never combined their finances, which, as 116 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 1: you can imagine, was pretty unheard of at the time, 117 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:40,479 Speaker 1: and in fact, Green had to sign a prenup agreeing 118 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: that he would keep his hands off Hetty's money, which 119 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:46,160 Speaker 1: prenup arrangements of some sort or another have actually been 120 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:49,279 Speaker 1: around for hundreds and hundreds of years, but in my 121 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 1: mind this sticks out as one of the earliest sort 122 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 1: of modern uh pre nup arrangements. For a while, the 123 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 1: two of them moved to England and they stayed there 124 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: for seven years. And this was a move that they 125 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:05,479 Speaker 1: made to escape some of the bad press that Hetty 126 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 1: had gotten while she was contesting her aunt's will. She 127 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 1: had a previous version of the will that had named 128 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: her as the sole inheritor, and there was the scandal 129 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: over the fact that people sort of believed it was 130 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:22,680 Speaker 1: a forged document that Hetty had made for herself. Yeah, 131 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 1: and this, you know, caused also some legal heat which 132 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 1: helped move them right along to UH, England. And they 133 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 1: actually had their first child while they were living in London. 134 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 1: His name was Edward Howland Robinson Green and that was 135 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 1: in eighteen sixty eight, so just a year after their marriage. Uh. 136 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 1: And then three years later, still in London, they had 137 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 1: a daughter named Hetty Sylvia and Howland Robinson Green, and 138 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 1: she went by Sylvia as she grew up. The two 139 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 1: of them and their children lived very well while they 140 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 1: were in London, and all of their living expenses came 141 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: out of Edward's money. So there had been a financial 142 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 1: panic in eight seventy three, and not long after that, 143 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 1: just a couple years later, the Greens moved back to 144 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 1: the US. UH. You know, the the concerns had died 145 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 1: down over the legal document and whether there had been 146 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 1: any foul play involved. And so they settled in Vermont, 147 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 1: where Edward was originally from, and it was not long 148 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 1: before Hetty marched right to Wall Street. She made a 149 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 1: pilgrimage to New York and she went into John Jay, 150 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 1: Cisco and Sons to deposit cash and stock certificates. And 151 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 1: she was ready to start investing with that money right then, 152 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 1: and with her separate and independent fortune, Hetty invested very 153 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 1: very wisely. Instead of focusing on fast cash investments that 154 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 1: would build up her fortune really quickly, had he opted 155 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 1: for long term investments. She primarily invested in bonds and 156 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 1: real estate. She also invested in the railroads, and she 157 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 1: bought real estate primarily in Chicago, New York, and St. Louis. 158 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 1: As her fortune grew, she also expanded her holdings well 159 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 1: beyond the cities, and all of her money handling every 160 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:09,560 Speaker 1: move she made was really well informed. She did copious 161 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 1: amounts of research on her own before she put her 162 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:15,960 Speaker 1: money behind anything. And it wasn't just that she was 163 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 1: a patient investor. She was also really frugal. Even though 164 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 1: she had at this point had a massed a massive fortune, 165 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:27,119 Speaker 1: she lived really simply she didn't have a lavish lifestyle 166 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 1: at all, and as a consequence, she always had money 167 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 1: and when there were dips in the market or panics, 168 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 1: she really didn't have to worry about it. She could 169 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: just expand her fortune further instead of worrying about getting 170 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:44,440 Speaker 1: by day to day. Until the crisis passed. She loaned 171 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 1: money and purchased real estate on the cheap from desperate sellers. 172 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 1: And when the financial panics caused many investment firms to 173 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:55,680 Speaker 1: declare bankruptcy because of their huge debt, Hetty, who had 174 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:59,679 Speaker 1: never borrowed money as a rule, always stayed on solid 175 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 1: grass owned. And before we get to kind of her 176 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 1: obsession with investing in money and expanding her wealth, uh 177 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 1: kind of ramping up? Do you want to take a 178 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 1: word from our sponsor? And so now back to Hetty. Uh, 179 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 1: So she is at this point in New York, she 180 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:25,079 Speaker 1: has really uh entrenched herself in this lifestyle of trading 181 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 1: and buying. And it seems as the uh as her 182 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: money management continued to take off and it took up 183 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: more and more of her time, she grew less and 184 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 1: less interested in taking care of herself. Uh. She seemed 185 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:40,959 Speaker 1: to have just become so obsessed with her work in 186 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:44,079 Speaker 1: finance that everything else kind of fell away from her focus. 187 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 1: Her clothes would go un washed, they would eventually fall 188 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 1: into ragged disrepair, and she would continue to wear them. 189 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:54,439 Speaker 1: She often looked very grubby, so much so that merchants 190 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 1: are said to have winced when she entered their stores. 191 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 1: They dreaded her dirty hands touching their merchandise. I mean, 192 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 1: she would even purchase broken cookies at the store so 193 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:07,559 Speaker 1: she could get a discount for them, and she would 194 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: return barry boxes to the market so she could get 195 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 1: a refund on them. So she was living very frugally, 196 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 1: very very cheaply, but she really wasn't taking great care 197 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: of herself. When she finally did relent and take her 198 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 1: clothes to the cleaners, she said to have insisted that 199 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:25,840 Speaker 1: they only washed the bottoms of the skirts, so just 200 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 1: to take away the obvious mud and dirt, and she 201 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 1: would negotiate a reduced price for the partial cleaning. And 202 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 1: her children this is the part that really breaks my heart. Uh. 203 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 1: You know, her children had the wealthiest woman in America 204 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 1: for a mother, but they wore hand me downs. They 205 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 1: looked like, you know, ragamuffins and poppers. From like a 206 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 1: Dickens novel. Uh It said that as their winter clothes 207 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:51,200 Speaker 1: were thin, she would line them with newspapers rather than 208 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 1: spend money on new coats and shoes would get the 209 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 1: same treatment. So if the kids had holes in their souls, 210 00:11:57,440 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: she would patch them cheaply or just line them with 211 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 1: paper uh to so that the hole wasn't completely open. 212 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 1: Her tight fistedness with her money really cost her son dearly, 213 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:12,319 Speaker 1: So when Ned, as he was known, hurt his leg 214 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 1: while he was sledding, Hetty put off getting a medical 215 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 1: treatment for him because she didn't want to get a 216 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:22,320 Speaker 1: bill from the doctor, and consequently, his leg never healed 217 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 1: correctly and it finally had to be amputated because he 218 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 1: developed gang green. So the nickname the Witch of Wall 219 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 1: Street came from the way Hetty carried herself in public. 220 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 1: As a woman, she was often confronted with people who 221 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: thought that they could take advantage of her, and one 222 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 1: of the ways that she dealt with that was by 223 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:45,080 Speaker 1: being really shrewd and abrupt in her behavior. She was 224 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 1: very direct and very cautious in all of her dealings, 225 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 1: and additionally, she wore solid black most of the time, 226 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 1: and she wore were clothes that were a little bit outdated. Again, 227 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:59,320 Speaker 1: she didn't like to buy new clothes, so she would 228 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:02,080 Speaker 1: kind of be out of season in these older, you know, 229 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:04,560 Speaker 1: dusty looking things. So you could see where people would 230 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 1: start calling her a witch based on, you know, sort 231 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 1: of the depictions of witches at the time. And it's 232 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 1: also said that she did not really have a great 233 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 1: personal smell, which is not really a huge leap of 234 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 1: logic given accounts of her less than stellar hygiene. Because 235 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 1: she was this enigmatic and unusual figure, lots of rumors 236 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:28,560 Speaker 1: circulated about her. One of these was that she was 237 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 1: so mis early that she only had one dress. As 238 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 1: we've already mentioned, she definitely did have a penny pinching 239 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:41,239 Speaker 1: streak about her. Yeah, and there's a story in biography 240 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 1: that was written about her, and the way the story 241 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:47,200 Speaker 1: goes is that she was carrying two hundred thousand dollars 242 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 1: in bonds on public transportation. And again that is not adjusted. 243 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 1: That is two hundred thousand dollars in eighteen sixties money, 244 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 1: or this may have been a little bit later, but uh, 245 00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:59,559 Speaker 1: and when someone insinuated like, hey, that's not really wise 246 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 1: to carry that much wealth on public transportation. She insisted 247 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:06,319 Speaker 1: that she could not afford to hire a private carriage 248 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: as they were suggesting, and that if they can, that's 249 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 1: great for them, but she couldn't. Just kind of funny, 250 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 1: you know, it's like the person sitting there with a 251 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 1: pile of money in their laps saying they can't afford 252 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 1: a taxi. In another story, she lived with a hernia 253 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 1: for years rather than going to the doctor to have 254 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: it looked at, and she only went once the pain 255 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 1: became really unbearable, and then she was infuriated that the 256 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 1: surgery was going to cost a hundred and fifty dollars. 257 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 1: She only agreed to it because she was in so 258 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: much pain, and allegedly she then tried to get away 259 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 1: without paying the bill to the doctor. Yeah, there's another 260 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 1: rumor that went around that she had a man's brain 261 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 1: in a woman's body, And in all likelihood that was 262 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:50,760 Speaker 1: not intended to be taken literally by you know, a 263 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:53,120 Speaker 1: person who initially said it. It was one of those 264 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: you know, uh, just kind of off handed comments. This 265 00:14:56,600 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: tidbit kind of slid into the rumor mill, and people 266 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 1: believed it as though it were a real thing and 267 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 1: not sort of just a commentary on her shrewdness and 268 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 1: her acumen in business, and it just added to that 269 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 1: which mystique that you know, she's a sort of almost 270 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 1: Frankenstein character that has, you know, male thinking in a 271 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 1: woman's body. But there's also a tinge of sexism in 272 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:23,480 Speaker 1: the nickname. Clearly, a woman who could amass so much 273 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 1: of a fortune and stand toe to toe with men 274 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 1: when it came to making deals had to be a sorceress. Yeah, 275 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 1: her odd and unsettling demeanor really didn't help. The press 276 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 1: picked up the name and they started using the Witch 277 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 1: of Wall Street anytime they reported any financial news involving her. 278 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:45,480 Speaker 1: And she was really worth reporting about. So a lot 279 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 1: of men on Wall Street and elsewhere we're just really 280 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 1: happy to be insulting about Hetty. And some of these 281 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 1: same men were the ones appealing to her for loans 282 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 1: and fiscal assistance when they ran into a crisis. This 283 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 1: was the case throughout her life. She's said to have 284 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 1: saved the city of New York on several occasions when 285 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 1: the city's coffers ran dry, and she even wrote a 286 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 1: check for one point one million dollars in the seven 287 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 1: Knickerbocker crisis as part of the emergency bank bailout that 288 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:17,600 Speaker 1: was headed up by JP Morgan. Yeah, people would just 289 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 1: say horrible things about her and kind of sneaker behind 290 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 1: her back, but boy, they were really happy to take 291 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 1: her money when they needed it. Uh, as is often 292 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 1: the case. Uh. And so while Hetty was having these 293 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 1: spectacular successes in finance, her husband unfortunately was not. Uh. 294 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 1: He had been making investments through the years, just as 295 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 1: his wife had, but he just did not have her 296 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 1: skill at picking winners and really like, you know, assembling 297 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 1: a cohesive portfolio that was all smart moves. And the 298 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 1: two million dollars that he had entered their marriage with 299 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 1: had slowly dwindled down until it was mostly gone. Unsurprisingly, 300 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 1: a husband who could not manage his own money was 301 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 1: of no interest to Hetty. This if the fact that 302 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 1: he was from a good family and by all accounts 303 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:06,680 Speaker 1: was a kind and affable man. She had already bailed 304 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:09,440 Speaker 1: him out several times, and once she had to pull 305 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:11,359 Speaker 1: all of our money out of the bank to avoid 306 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:13,919 Speaker 1: it being seized to cover his debts. And at that 307 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:18,359 Speaker 1: point enough was enough. And so in one after fourteen 308 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 1: years of marriage, she took the children and she moved 309 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 1: to New York. She kept the desk in an office 310 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 1: on Wall Street, incidentally in the bank where she moved 311 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 1: her money after the incident with Edwards debt collectors caused 312 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:33,399 Speaker 1: her to leave her previous bank. She brought her lunch 313 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 1: of oatmeal or a plain ham sandwich with her every day, 314 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:41,480 Speaker 1: and because she wasn't exactly enthusiastic about paying taxes on 315 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 1: the property she owned, she and the children never had 316 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:48,399 Speaker 1: a consistent home. The three of them moved around a 317 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,359 Speaker 1: lot to dodge debt collectors, and they stayed in cheap 318 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 1: flats over the years all over the city. They spent 319 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:58,399 Speaker 1: time in Hoboken, the Bowery, Harlem, and Brooklyn. Anywhere that 320 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 1: Hetty could find a deal on cold water flat with 321 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 1: a low weekly rate. She would use aliases that most 322 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:09,680 Speaker 1: of them, sometimes even registering under her dog's name. Yeah. Yeah, 323 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:12,600 Speaker 1: there there's a debate over what the actual name of 324 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 1: her dog was, and it could just be that there 325 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 1: were multiple dogs. Some will list him as Dewey, Some 326 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:20,639 Speaker 1: even list him as Money being his name, which to 327 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:23,679 Speaker 1: me sounds a little urban legend. E uh, and I 328 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:26,920 Speaker 1: think there's another name in the mix. But in any case, 329 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:31,719 Speaker 1: her dog rented some flats for her. Ned her son 330 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 1: went to Fordham and he pursued a law degree. And 331 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 1: Hetty had always had in mind that he was going 332 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:38,640 Speaker 1: to be the one that managed the family fortune after her, 333 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:42,640 Speaker 1: and so after he graduated, she gave him a job 334 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 1: managing some of her properties in Chicago, and he did 335 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 1: quite well there, and so she eventually moved him to 336 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 1: Texas to see after interests there. His life away from 337 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:54,920 Speaker 1: his mother gave Ned a little taste of freedom. He 338 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:58,919 Speaker 1: started to like more extravagant living, and he did have 339 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 1: several dalliance is with some ladies. We can say they 340 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 1: had negotiable affections, that's a way to put it. Patty 341 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:10,359 Speaker 1: was afraid that he would end up married to a 342 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 1: woman who was only after the family fortune, so she 343 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 1: begged Ned to promise her he would never get married. 344 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 1: He acquiesced, although his mistress, who was a former prostitute, 345 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:23,160 Speaker 1: stayed with him and the pair lived as though they 346 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:26,920 Speaker 1: were married to each other. Ned was euventually moved back 347 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:29,480 Speaker 1: to New York by his mother to see after the business, 348 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: and unlike his mother, who still insisted on living in 349 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 1: cheap rental flats, he lived for a little while at 350 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 1: the Waldorf Astoria, and then he and his mistress moved 351 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 1: to adjoining townhouses near Central Park. And while ned did 352 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:45,439 Speaker 1: not share his mother's taste in lodging or lifestyle, he 353 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,480 Speaker 1: really did inherit her business acumen, and he proved himself 354 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: to be extremely adept at managing the family fortune. Neddie 355 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:56,160 Speaker 1: and Edward's daughter, Sylvia, stayed unmarried and stayed with her 356 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 1: mother until she was thirty nine. At that point she 357 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,840 Speaker 1: arad Matthew asked Wilkes, who was the great grandchild of 358 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:07,440 Speaker 1: John Jacob Aster. The first Wilkes was in his sixties, 359 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:09,879 Speaker 1: so he was much older than Sylvia. But Hett he 360 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:12,439 Speaker 1: approved of the marriage because he had family money of 361 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:16,200 Speaker 1: his own and promised that he would never touch Sylvia's. Yeah. 362 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:20,000 Speaker 1: It said that Hetty didn't really like uh, Matthew, but 363 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:22,199 Speaker 1: she liked that he was willing to stay out of 364 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:26,959 Speaker 1: her family's money. Uh. And Sylvia's wedding is often pointed 365 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 1: to you as one of the few times that Hetty 366 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,360 Speaker 1: kind of loosened her purse strings. She paid for the wedding, 367 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:33,879 Speaker 1: and it said uh. And it said that she was 368 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,919 Speaker 1: much more fiscally indulgent in the whole affair than just 369 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:39,719 Speaker 1: about any other time she was in her life, and 370 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:43,199 Speaker 1: prior to Sylvia meeting Matthew, Hetty had also paid to 371 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 1: host several dinners uh like places at the plaza so 372 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:50,400 Speaker 1: that her daughter could invite eligible men and they could 373 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 1: have these sort of social events uh. And all of 374 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:57,439 Speaker 1: this was really because Hetty had been quite concerned that 375 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:01,640 Speaker 1: Sylvia wasn't married, And this sounds sort of a little ironic, 376 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 1: given what a fiercely independent woman Hetty herself was, but 377 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:07,960 Speaker 1: even so, she had been married, and she seemed to 378 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 1: think that it was important for a woman to marry 379 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:14,160 Speaker 1: at some point. Hetty died on July third, nineteen sixteen, 380 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:17,680 Speaker 1: at her son's townhouse. She had gotten six several years 381 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:20,199 Speaker 1: before with pneumonia, and at that point the papers had 382 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 1: reported that the Witch of Wall Street was really at 383 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:27,040 Speaker 1: death's door, but she defied them and recovered. The illness 384 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 1: left her pretty frail, though, and she wasn't able to 385 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 1: work anymore afterwards, so she moved in with her son 386 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:36,120 Speaker 1: and insisted that she pay him rent, but no more 387 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 1: than she would have paid at the more modest lodgings 388 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 1: she would normally have gotten for herself, and eventually after 389 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:47,119 Speaker 1: falling into gradually poorer and poorer health. Uh, she had 390 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:50,639 Speaker 1: had that that initial pneumonia that caused the death scare 391 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:53,040 Speaker 1: when she was in her late seventies. I believe she 392 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:56,359 Speaker 1: was seventy seven, and then she was approaching her eighty 393 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 1: second birthday, she had a series of paralytic strokes, and 394 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 1: so she died just a few weeks before her birthday. 395 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:05,920 Speaker 1: When she died, she left behind a fortune of more 396 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 1: than a hundred million dollars, which she acquired over the 397 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:13,240 Speaker 1: fifty one years that she had worked. She owned about 398 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 1: six thousand pieces of property across forty eight states, and 399 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 1: she held the deeds to theaters, railroads, hotels, office buildings, 400 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:24,400 Speaker 1: and cemeteries. And she held the mortgages for more than 401 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:28,239 Speaker 1: five hundred churches. Yeah, and again that is not an 402 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 1: adjusted amount. That was a hundred million in the nineteen 403 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 1: teens when she died. So I have seen various adjustment 404 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 1: estimates that are wildly different. Some that put her in 405 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 1: the low billions, uh, if that were today's money, and 406 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,480 Speaker 1: some that put her like in the tens of billions. 407 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 1: So it's a pretty wide range. But basically she would 408 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:52,879 Speaker 1: have been a billionaire. If if this was in today's 409 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 1: UH fiscal measuring. And so then Ned inherited a big 410 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,920 Speaker 1: chunk of the money, and unlike his mother, he took 411 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:06,119 Speaker 1: that money and he lived big. He was still, you know, 412 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,959 Speaker 1: doing his job as a financier, but he spent plenty 413 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 1: of that money. He married his mistress that he had 414 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 1: promised his mother he would never marry, although it's it's 415 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 1: said that he also had dalliances with other women. Uh. 416 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,119 Speaker 1: And he spent a huge chunk of money building mammoth 417 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 1: mansions in multiple places, and he staffed all of them 418 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:26,960 Speaker 1: with a full complement of servants. He kind of made 419 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,880 Speaker 1: up for all the lost time that they live very 420 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:32,720 Speaker 1: poorly as children. And he gave a lot of money 421 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 1: to charity, and he also funded several scientific research projects. 422 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:37,879 Speaker 1: He did some work with m I. T. And let 423 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 1: them even use some of his property to to do 424 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 1: some of their experiments. Ned died in nineteen thirty seven, 425 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 1: and at that point the estate went to Sylvia, who 426 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 1: was already a widow. She in turn left the entire 427 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:54,440 Speaker 1: lot to various charities. So all that money that Hetty 428 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:59,359 Speaker 1: had spent her life hoarding eventually was given away. Yeah, 429 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,200 Speaker 1: it's one of those moments where you're you feel reasonably 430 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 1: confident that if she could, she was probably rolling in 431 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 1: her grave. Uh. But it's interesting to note. I mean, 432 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 1: she gets these this almost caricature grade description in anything 433 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:16,880 Speaker 1: you read about her. That's why, Uh, I'm almost reluctant 434 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 1: to ever say anything with certainty about her, because it 435 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 1: seems like every report of her is colored by sort 436 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 1: of the press and this weird image that she had. 437 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:28,360 Speaker 1: But I want to wrap up with a quote from 438 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: Hetty herself that I think is really telling, and it 439 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,879 Speaker 1: it kind of uh pulls the whole thing together and 440 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 1: reminds us that yes, she was a very extreme person 441 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,480 Speaker 1: with some very extreme behaviors, but she was still a 442 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 1: person and she uh she said this in response to 443 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,720 Speaker 1: criticisms and bad press about her. Uh. And you know, 444 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:47,719 Speaker 1: this is a woman who was listed in the Guinness 445 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 1: Book of Records as the world's greatest miser. But this 446 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:53,480 Speaker 1: quote goes, My life is written down for me in 447 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:56,359 Speaker 1: Wall Street by people who I assume do not care 448 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,199 Speaker 1: to know one iota of the real heavy green I 449 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,800 Speaker 1: am in earnest. Therefore they picture me as heartless. I 450 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,119 Speaker 1: go my own way, I take no partner risk nobody 451 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:10,480 Speaker 1: else's fortune. Therefore I am madam Ishmael set against every man. 452 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,679 Speaker 1: So that's Eddy Green. And we had several requests for 453 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: her over the last year and a half, and I 454 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 1: presumed prior host did as well. But this is one 455 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,399 Speaker 1: where when I got your outline, the name was so 456 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:27,159 Speaker 1: familiar because of so many people who have requested it 457 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 1: that I was like, didn't we do this all right? Tracy? 458 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 1: And I kept like going back through all of our 459 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 1: archives and being like, did was this? It wasn't done. 460 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 1: If it was, we couldn't find it. Uh, So I'm 461 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 1: gonna go with it wasn't uh Heeddy, She's so fascinating. 462 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 1: I may want to dress as her for Halloween one year. Also, 463 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:49,120 Speaker 1: it gives me an excuse to where, you know, kind 464 00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:53,679 Speaker 1: of an outdated Victorian gown, which I always love. Uh. 465 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:56,159 Speaker 1: And now I have a bit of listener mail of 466 00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:01,720 Speaker 1: much different um tone, so I have to One is 467 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:06,480 Speaker 1: a postcard from our listener Ann Marie, and she says, 468 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:08,359 Speaker 1: dear Tracy and Holly, I love your show and a 469 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,200 Speaker 1: ment to send cards from many trips instead, here's one 470 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 1: from my city, Alexandria, Virginia. We have an awesome apothecary museum. 471 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,080 Speaker 1: It was active from seventeen ninety six to nineteen thirty three. 472 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:21,920 Speaker 1: When its owners went bankrupt in the Great Depression, they 473 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 1: left everything behind. It's an amazing local highlight that too 474 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,359 Speaker 1: few people have seen. They have original pepto abysmal. And 475 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 1: then there's a thing about armin Hammer that is obscured 476 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 1: by postal marks, uh and arsenic and mercury. But yeah, 477 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,639 Speaker 1: it's a lovely picture of some of the labels on 478 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:42,359 Speaker 1: some of these items in this apothecary museum, which is 479 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:44,159 Speaker 1: super cool and is now on my list of places 480 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 1: I want to go. And then we also got a 481 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:51,119 Speaker 1: really lovely parcel from our listener, Ian who is in Australia, 482 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,040 Speaker 1: and he says, hi, ladies and clothes should be two 483 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 1: small bars of Kendall mint cake and a copy of 484 00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 1: ten sixty six and all that. These go back to 485 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 1: a couple of episodes did a while ago, but it 486 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 1: took me a while to get stuff together. In the 487 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,640 Speaker 1: episode on Mount Everest, Hillary intensing ate some mint cake 488 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 1: when they got to the top of Mount Everest. Kendall 489 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 1: mint cake is a type of candy from Kendall, England, 490 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,640 Speaker 1: one manufacturer, Romney's, used to give it away to expeditions 491 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 1: such as the Mount Everest expedition for the publicity. Unfortunately, 492 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,480 Speaker 1: I wasn't able to find the right brand here in Adelaide, Australia. 493 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:25,360 Speaker 1: By the time it gets to you, it will probably 494 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,200 Speaker 1: be pulverized. But that's how most explorers probably would have 495 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:31,040 Speaker 1: eaten it in the field. Anyway, I wanted to say 496 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:35,880 Speaker 1: I tried the mint cake. It was intense. Yeah, it's 497 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:40,639 Speaker 1: a it's not cakey at all. That's for people that 498 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,080 Speaker 1: think of cake like a spongey cake the way we 499 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:44,840 Speaker 1: would bake a cake. That is not what it is 500 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,400 Speaker 1: at all. It's really like a compressed bar of like 501 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: glucose and peppermint, and it is very intense. It's like 502 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,440 Speaker 1: the York peppermint patty feeling, but it's all the way through. 503 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 1: There's no chocolate to temper it. So it was quite 504 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,640 Speaker 1: an intense peppermint flavor. It was lovely. Uh and Ian 505 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,600 Speaker 1: also asked about another postcard he sent us in relation 506 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 1: to um the Red Ghost of Arizona, and we did 507 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 1: get that, by the way, But anyway, thank you for 508 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,680 Speaker 1: the treats. It was fun to try something it may 509 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:14,720 Speaker 1: have scared my stomach a little bit with its intense 510 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 1: peppermint nous. I'm imagining it was like a slightly softer altoid. Well, 511 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 1: it's hard, so it's not as hard as an altoid, 512 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 1: But like I said, it's like compressed. It's almost candy like, 513 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:32,720 Speaker 1: but it's in bar form and I can see where 514 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 1: it would give you some energy to huck it up 515 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,400 Speaker 1: a mountain. Um, So that's a scoop. If you would 516 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:38,959 Speaker 1: like to write to us, you can do so at 517 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 1: History Podcast at how stuff Works dot com. You can 518 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,160 Speaker 1: also visit us at Facebook dot com, slash missed in History, 519 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,280 Speaker 1: on Twitter at missed in History, at missed in History 520 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 1: dot tumbler dot com, and at pinterest dot com slash 521 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 1: missed in History. 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