Speaker 1: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset.
Speaker 2: When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.
Speaker 1: And when I find my ball in a brid egg.
Speaker 3: Friday Egg, the dreaded Friday Friday fridagg Bride Egg Lie,
Speaker 3: I'm about ready to run off of the hump.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to another edition of the Friday Golf Podcast.
Speaker 1: I am your host Andy Johnson. Today I am super
Speaker 1: excited to uh to have a couple of talks, a
Speaker 1: couple one former PGA Tour player and one PGA Tour player,
Speaker 1: both regular guests. I'm joined by Roberto Castro who now
Speaker 1: works at cap Tech, who's conting part of TGL. Roberto
Speaker 1: was very instrumental in the launch of TGL kind of
Speaker 1: most notably the formatting and testing of the formatting of
Speaker 1: the new Indoor Golf League that I think had a
Speaker 1: pretty good Monday was a really good President's Day the
Speaker 1: I think it was probably their most successful broadcasts of
Speaker 1: the year. They had three of them, three really good matches.
Speaker 1: I think it was captivating and is starting to win
Speaker 1: over some people on the fence. So Roberto joined me.
Speaker 1: He also has a podcast that is notable worth listening.
Speaker 1: To is the course record show dives into the business
Speaker 1: of golf. I always like to plug that when Roberto's
Speaker 1: on the podcast. And then I'm joined by PGA tour
Speaker 1: member Zach Blair, also the Tree Farm founder, and we
Speaker 1: talk about three golf courses that kind of he thinks
Speaker 1: about the most. You know, as you can imagine, tree
Speaker 1: Farm is one of those. Well, we'll kind of keep
Speaker 1: the other two behind the curtain, so we talk with
Speaker 1: Zach one on the back half of this podcast, So
Speaker 1: little golf course architecture with Zach and a little TGL
Speaker 1: with Roberto Castro. Before we get to that, we just
Speaker 1: dropped a our Rainerman collection in the pro Shop, so
Speaker 1: if you go to the Pro Show, if you go
Speaker 1: to pro shop dot thefried egg dot com. We collaborated
Speaker 1: with swag Golf to make some headcovers, putter covers, and
Speaker 1: t shirts with our favorite Rainerman logo. So check that out.
Speaker 1: If you're a clip TFE member, you obviously get ten
Speaker 1: percent off with your with your membership, use that code.
Speaker 1: It's been emailed to you multiple times. All right, let's
Speaker 1: get to Roberto about and talk about the TGL and
Speaker 1: their big Monday Night and how the league's gone in
Speaker 1: his eyes so far? All right, Roberto, We were supposed
Speaker 1: to record this last week and fortuitously pushed this to
Speaker 1: the current week, and now I'm excited to chat about this.
Speaker 1: We're recording the Tuesday after the President's Day extravaganza of TGL,
Speaker 1: where I don't know if it had a moment, it
Speaker 1: felt like it kind of had a moment where where
Speaker 1: a lot of things clicked. What do you think went
Speaker 1: so well about Monday for the TGL?
Speaker 2: You had three really close matches. I mean that's really
Speaker 2: what went well, and I think you saw the guys
Speaker 2: like the idea was always like a great blend of
Speaker 2: competitiveness and entertainment, and that came through yesterday because when
Speaker 2: you have these blowout matches, like actually credit to the players,
Speaker 2: like they tried to salvage it into like a watchable
Speaker 2: TV show and a good entertainment product. And that's the
Speaker 2: most you can get out of a twelve to one
Speaker 2: or a nine to zero match. But yesterday you saw
Speaker 2: what it looks like when I kept telling people like,
Speaker 2: look when the last three, four or five holes, like
Speaker 2: when it's close, you're going to see a different energy.
Speaker 2: And we saw that yesterday.
Speaker 1: To me, it also feels like maybe they're starting to
Speaker 1: learn how to play in there a little bit, like
Speaker 1: I think like something that you know, I don't think
Speaker 1: like anybody like talked about and you know, I've talked
Speaker 1: about probably TGL more than anybody on the Shotgun start,
Speaker 1: but something we just didn't talk about was like maybe
Speaker 1: these guys don't know how to play screen golf and
Speaker 1: they have to learn how to play screen golf to
Speaker 1: be like, it seems like they're starting to learn how
Speaker 1: to chip around, like the adjustment period of like they
Speaker 1: know where to aim. JT yesterday was like I'm not
Speaker 1: going to try and cut this, I'm just going to
Speaker 1: let it draw. Yeah, you know, it feels like they're
Speaker 1: starting to also learn how to play in in the
Speaker 1: in the sofide dum.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's definitely an adjustment period. Some players have spent
Speaker 2: more time in here than others, but really it's like
Speaker 2: under the gun is what matters. And just like it
Speaker 2: takes a player a couple of practice rounds or a
Speaker 2: couple of years to get comfortable at a bay hill
Speaker 2: or a riviera, like it's similar like you have to learn,
Speaker 2: like what's the feel of the turf, like how to followard,
Speaker 2: does the ball go? All those things, But you're totally right.
Speaker 2: Like my brother was texting me yesterday and he was like, dude,
Speaker 2: they are hitting one laser after another. Like the number
Speaker 2: of shots that went right at the hole yesterday were
Speaker 2: probably two x to what you saw week one and
Speaker 2: week two, So that's definitely happening.
Speaker 1: It felt like they were reading the green better too. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's like the other thing, like I don't know I
Speaker 1: had here, Like you know, what's like one thing that
Speaker 1: you weren't at all worried about with this and that
Speaker 1: that you realize was like a problem or there was
Speaker 1: a learning curve associated with said thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, probably the shorter shots like the fifty to one twenty,
Speaker 2: because it's not like a month's long learning curve. But
Speaker 2: I think all of us that were really involved in
Speaker 2: the testing had kind of gotten well past that hump
Speaker 2: of like I'm really good at a seventy yard shot
Speaker 2: in the Sofi Center, but I don't remember what those
Speaker 2: first few were. And Yeah, this is like the biggest,
Speaker 2: most sophisticated sim in the world, but it's still a
Speaker 2: sim You can't overcome the law of simulator golf. That says,
Speaker 2: the closer you get to the whole, the more awkward
Speaker 2: and the more adjustment it takes. Right, Like one hundred
Speaker 2: and seventy five yard shot is just like a full
Speaker 2: aid iron for these guys takes five minutes, but eighty
Speaker 2: ninety yards. Like, whether you're sim or your basement sim
Speaker 2: in your basement, or whether you're playing here, it just
Speaker 2: takes time to figure out an eighty yard shot. And
Speaker 2: you definitely saw that.
Speaker 1: I feel like that is relatable for anybody that's played
Speaker 1: sim later off, Like it's super weird when you're at
Speaker 1: a simulator trying to hit a fifty yard shot, because
Speaker 1: I think like one of the things that you like,
Speaker 1: I feel like inside one hundred so much of like
Speaker 1: the way you process the show is your eyes looking
Speaker 1: at the target totally.
Speaker 2: And I think actually the sixty five foot screen here
Speaker 2: may may have made it harder than the sim in
Speaker 2: your basement or the sim in a five iron or
Speaker 2: an in town golf club, because talk about depth being weird, Like,
Speaker 2: get up to an Imax screen and try to hit
Speaker 2: a fifty yard shot into it. It's very strange.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what you know, you obviously were instrumental in the
Speaker 1: testing the formatting of this league. What have you enjoyed
Speaker 1: the most about the TGL kind of coming online, coming
Speaker 1: to the world.
Speaker 2: It's a great question. I really think the two things
Speaker 2: are the player buy in. Like the biggest thing TGL
Speaker 2: had going for it on night one is you've got
Speaker 2: twenty of the top thirty players in the world, give
Speaker 2: or take right, Like the talent you're starting with is
Speaker 2: a huge, huge asset, and they're not locked in for right,
Speaker 2: Like they need to be really invested in it and
Speaker 2: having fun with it, Like it needs to add to
Speaker 2: their experience. These guys are making tens of millions of dollars,
Speaker 2: they could pretty much set their schedule, Like they've got
Speaker 2: a good thing going. It needs to be additive to
Speaker 2: their careers. And like these comments are genuine, like Shane
Speaker 2: Lowry saying like he's having as much fun as he's
Speaker 2: had as he can remember playing golf. Like I had
Speaker 2: an agent. I overheard an agent say that the chatter
Speaker 2: at Torrey Pines last week and the locker room is
Speaker 2: like all the players are like, man, it's a blast,
Speaker 2: Like these matches are a ton of fun. So that's
Speaker 2: been really cool to see and then too, just the
Speaker 2: audience reception, Like I think, like Mike McCary, who founded
Speaker 2: this thing with Tiger and Rory, like he said, like
Speaker 2: some old you know, I don't have like an entertainment background,
Speaker 2: but there's like an old Hollywood saying that in TV
Speaker 2: and entertainment, it's like a parachute. Either it either opens
Speaker 2: or you die. And that night one the general reaction
Speaker 2: of the fans and the viewers was like, all right,
Speaker 2: this is cool. I'm in, And to me, that is
Speaker 2: the biggest most exciting thing, right, It's not about the numbers.
Speaker 2: It's a it's a year one product. It's just about
Speaker 2: having customers that like give a damn about your product
Speaker 2: and or invested in it, whether you love or hate
Speaker 2: the hammer or whether you think like just having an
Speaker 2: opinion is a really big win. So it's been fun
Speaker 2: to get text every week from people that are engaged
Speaker 2: in it.
Speaker 1: I completely echo the player buy in and I think
Speaker 1: like that's like even I think like, and you don't
Speaker 1: have to comment on this obviously, but like for me,
Speaker 1: like players that I would have been worried about being
Speaker 1: bought in, like someone like Patrick Cantley, I was not
Speaker 1: sure if he was going to be bought in, but
Speaker 1: like you saw yesterday, like he was legit. Yeah, Like
Speaker 1: I think at that at the core of it, it's
Speaker 1: like a hyper competitive gain because these guys, like none
Speaker 1: of these guys like losing it all. Yeah, And it's
Speaker 1: kind of like I feel like when you play I've
Speaker 1: gone on trips with like guys that all play competitive golf,
Speaker 1: and when you play anything with hyper competitive athletes or people,
Speaker 1: they everybody's engaged and doesn't want to lose. And at
Speaker 1: the core of this, none of these guys want to lose.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that, And you're totally right, Like it's kind of sidebar.
Speaker 2: But the few times I'm lucky to play like a
Speaker 2: really fancy like top ten, top one hundred club, like
Speaker 2: these places are so sophisticated and whatnot, it's always like
Speaker 2: you set up a game maybe for five dollars, it
Speaker 2: may be for anything, and I'm trying to like get
Speaker 2: into the match, even if everyone's getting their shots and
Speaker 2: everyone's just out there for a good experience, and I'm
Speaker 2: always like, are we too hump or we too like
Speaker 2: what's the score? And nobody cares right, And this is
Speaker 2: the opposite of that, Like these guys really care. And
Speaker 2: then the team aspect. I mean, I played college golf.
Speaker 2: It's not team golf. You just go play golf and
Speaker 2: then you add up your score at the end. And
Speaker 2: the reason that this is working is, you know, the
Speaker 2: triples format, the alternate shot works. They're reading putts together
Speaker 2: and hitting shots together because the shot clock like it's
Speaker 2: legit team golf. Every shot putt that goes in like
Speaker 2: it's high fives all around because they're all within ten
Speaker 2: feet of each other. I gave zero high fives and
Speaker 2: four years of college golf, it doesn't happen. So that's
Speaker 2: really fun for them. And you hear them say it
Speaker 2: like I love my job, but it's a grind. You've
Speaker 2: heard them say that over and over again. The PGA
Speaker 2: Tour seventy two hole stroke play like the courses are hard,
Speaker 2: the pressure is high. This is fun. Let a teammate
Speaker 2: hit a shot, Let me pitch in where I can like,
Speaker 2: give me someone to stand with here as opposed to
Speaker 2: just every week you know, it's knives out, each man
Speaker 2: for himself.
Speaker 1: Yeah. The I think, like I say this at all
Speaker 1: of our events, is that because like we get we
Speaker 1: have we play alternate shot at.
Speaker 2: All of our events, the Frida Egg events.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think people are like a lot of
Speaker 1: times it's like the one time in a year, the
Speaker 1: one time in five years somebody's played or sometimes the
Speaker 1: first time somebody's ever played alternate shot, and they are nervous,
Speaker 1: and I often say to them, this is the this
Speaker 1: is team golf, right, this is where you are working
Speaker 1: with someone and like if you're playing best ball, best ball,
Speaker 1: partner best ball, like four ball. Yeah, it's just like
Speaker 1: like I've I've had partners in in four ball tournaments
Speaker 1: where we play matches against each other because that's the
Speaker 1: best way we've found to play well together. It is
Speaker 1: like we're literally are playing against each other in a match,
Speaker 1: trying to beat the other one. And like the an
Speaker 1: alternate shot, it completely switches where like it is like wait,
Speaker 1: like where do you like? You you have to think about,
Speaker 1: like where do you want?
Speaker 4: And you hear it.
Speaker 1: You heard it yesterday like right before I can't remember
Speaker 1: if it was Keegan or Hidecki was about to hit
Speaker 1: a three wood into a par five. You heard Rory
Speaker 1: be like left side is better, left side is better?
Speaker 1: Left side like you know, like that wouldn't happen if
Speaker 1: they're playing best ball in my opinion, like they because
Speaker 1: like he's worried about the next guy who's gonna have
Speaker 1: to hit the shot right, like, And I think that's
Speaker 1: like the fascinating thing with alternate shot. And you know, I,
Speaker 1: if I'm gonna be completely honest, I don't know if
Speaker 1: singles is the best ender. Like to me, like if
Speaker 1: you had gone triples alternate shot the way it is
Speaker 1: where it's three person the whole way, would it have
Speaker 1: been more compelling?
Speaker 2: Maybe?
Speaker 1: I don't know, like we've ever done that. Part of
Speaker 1: me thinks that's the most compelling format of the game
Speaker 1: because it is that team aspect. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: like yesterday, it was also cool seeing Rory mclory and
Speaker 1: lud big Obert, who's you know, just the last two
Speaker 1: big time tournament winners square off down the stretch of
Speaker 1: a match with consequential golf. They met both make birdies.
Speaker 1: That was cool too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, I totally agree. And we messed with
Speaker 2: a bunch of that in the testing. I remember the
Speaker 2: first one we ever did you know, It's like, hey,
Speaker 2: maybe we do some best ball holes, some alternate shot holes.
Speaker 2: Maybe it's like runs of singles and then we would
Speaker 2: realize that like a player was sitting down for thirty
Speaker 2: five minutes. It's like, well, we can't have that happen, right,
Speaker 2: So it's like until you try these things, you don't know.
Speaker 2: But the triples has been you know, it moves fast,
Speaker 2: like those first nine holes have been really really good.
Speaker 2: I think they've done a better job too, of getting
Speaker 2: the energy kind of between triples and singles, because there's
Speaker 2: a bit of that break there and a couple of
Speaker 2: the early matches I felt like in venue too, like
Speaker 2: it just went a little flat and then the singles
Speaker 2: came back, like, so I think they've maintained it a
Speaker 2: lot better. And you know, it's just like one of
Speaker 2: many examples of learning and changing as they go.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about that a little bit. I think, like
Speaker 1: where everybody wanted to land on, like a very formed opinion,
Speaker 1: and this has got to be one of the most
Speaker 1: challenging aspects of the league is like, like most I
Speaker 1: guess you could call this a startup, as an extraordinarily
Speaker 1: well funded startup. Most startups get to operate a little
Speaker 1: bit in obscurity for a while before like they figure
Speaker 1: out like they operate in obscurity, figure how product market fit.
Speaker 1: And then there's like this growing popularity and then they
Speaker 1: get the microscope put on them once they are very popular. Yeah,
Speaker 1: uh you you unveiled at on ESPN Primetime, you know,
Speaker 1: Tuesday night.
Speaker 4: What have you you know?
Speaker 1: Yet it's still entrepreneurial, Like, what have you enjoyed most
Speaker 1: about the you know, like you played golf for a living,
Speaker 1: you have a degree from Georgia Tech though, you know,
Speaker 1: like you seem to be very interested in like the
Speaker 1: business side of the world. You have a golf podcast
Speaker 1: about the business side of golf. Like, what's been your
Speaker 1: favorite aspect of the entrepreneurial journey of this thing.
Speaker 2: It's really been getting all people's perspectives. I mean, you
Speaker 2: nailed it. You know, I'm a little too close to it.
Speaker 2: My colleagues at Captech are probably a little too close
Speaker 2: to it. And starting week two, we started bringing clients
Speaker 2: down right, so they were either founders of companies or
Speaker 2: their executives at Fortune five hundred companies, and they kept saying, like,
Speaker 2: hold time out, like this is version one of a product.
Speaker 2: Y'all are keep showing what could be better and what
Speaker 2: the feedback's been, but do you realize how polished this is,
Speaker 2: how put together, how sophisticated this product in the market
Speaker 2: is right now for a version one, and just getting
Speaker 2: their perspective, like you said, outside business perspective of what
Speaker 2: the first you know, a new hotel brand or a
Speaker 2: new you know, apparel line, like they've all put products
Speaker 2: out into the world, right, and getting their take on
Speaker 2: it has been really rewarding and really interesting because like
Speaker 2: bringing a different business mind to it. Right, If you
Speaker 2: ran a public facing consumer brand, you think about it
Speaker 2: one way. If you run like a franchise business, you
Speaker 2: think about it a different way. And I mean that's
Speaker 2: the cool thing about my job now is like I
Speaker 2: get to meet all these people in different parts of
Speaker 2: businesses and and talk through this stuff and getting them
Speaker 2: to TGL and their thoughts on it has been awesome.
Speaker 1: How do you think season two, you just brought up
Speaker 1: product version one, How do you think season two would differ?
Speaker 1: Will differ from season one in any way?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you're gonna have some different holes. I
Speaker 2: would think can have a little bit of shifting of
Speaker 2: the players. One thing I think is.
Speaker 1: Going to be really what's free agency? What's hot stove season.
Speaker 2: It's gonna happen eventually. I think a lot of the
Speaker 2: stuff you see in other sports will happen event you know,
Speaker 2: like let's get the steady state in season one.
Speaker 1: Uh, if my frogs need to make some frogs.
Speaker 2: And I need to make some moves, and you know,
Speaker 2: the Doncic thing proved, any trade is on the table, right,
Speaker 2: there's no there are no sacred cows.
Speaker 1: So if you can trade this, they might trade Rory
Speaker 1: in the middle of the night.
Speaker 2: But but think about season two. One thing I think
Speaker 2: is cool is like a season narrative, and this could
Speaker 2: take five years, could take season two. I think it's
Speaker 2: going to start developing season one. But it's like, what's
Speaker 2: the cadence of the season in the narrative? So, like,
Speaker 2: I'm from Atlanta, I probably followed the Atlanta team closest yesterday.
Speaker 2: If they win in the afternoon, they clinch a playoff spot.
Speaker 2: Four teams make the playoffs. Two don't. So they lose
Speaker 2: a close match. Now next week they play Boston. So
Speaker 2: if you're thinking about it, you're like, Okay, Atlanta needs
Speaker 2: to win this or they lose two in a row
Speaker 2: when they just were sitting pretty like a second ago,
Speaker 2: or does Boston go zero to four, like they're literally
Speaker 2: like got to do something right. So I think you
Speaker 2: start to build these narratives in season two where people
Speaker 2: understand like, Okay, like part of week two NFL excitement
Speaker 2: is like if a good team like loses Week one,
Speaker 2: it's like it's do or die, right, Like if the
Speaker 2: Steelers lose the first two weeks, it's like, hey, they're
Speaker 2: not that. Week three becomes like the biggest game of
Speaker 2: the year. And again, it'll take time, but some of
Speaker 2: that stuff I think will start to develop as the
Speaker 2: league finds it's kind of its rhythm.
Speaker 1: That's my frogs. We were I felt like that last
Speaker 1: last game, you know, and then and then the Bay
Speaker 1: ripped our heartside of that, you know, our own three.
Speaker 1: I don't know what we're gonna do. I still think
Speaker 1: we got a chance to get it. We got to
Speaker 1: win the last two though.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, you're still in it for you know, four
Speaker 2: out of six making playoffs gives everyone a chance.
Speaker 1: I know that after like Week one, there was talks
Speaker 1: of like there are a talking expansion. Is is that
Speaker 1: a feasible thing for season two? Is that a realistic.
Speaker 1: Uh chance, I think so.
Speaker 2: I think that has been reported and it tracks. I
Speaker 2: know there's been NBA owners, NFL owners. I think there
Speaker 2: was like three NFL owners at at Week one, So
Speaker 2: I mean it's sports. You know, assets are so highly
Speaker 2: valued and coveted right now that I think, uh, you're
Speaker 2: looking at you know a lot of different owners trying
Speaker 2: and expand their portfolios, and this is a great way
Speaker 2: to do it, do you.
Speaker 1: I think there'd be expansion beyond just the teams, an
Speaker 1: expansion of like where they might play. To me, it
Speaker 1: does seem a little silly to be just flying people
Speaker 1: back and forth from the coast in this early season
Speaker 1: run when you're playing the PGA Tour is playing on
Speaker 1: the West coast and then you're playing Monday and Tuesday
Speaker 1: nights on on the East coast.
Speaker 2: Yeah, agreed. And the other one of the biggest wins
Speaker 2: so far has been the venue like people, I mean
Speaker 2: like Pat McAfee Week one I think was like this
Speaker 2: place is sick. I got to get in there with
Speaker 2: the boys, like you just imagine how and that keeps
Speaker 2: coming up, like everyone is like how do I get
Speaker 2: in here? We need more of these, Like what's the
Speaker 2: next one, and I can tell you, like ground up
Speaker 2: construction doesn't take months like it takes years like Sofi
Speaker 2: Center took you know, years multiple to come to life.
Speaker 2: So I do think it's on the radar. I think
Speaker 2: West Coast definitely makes sense. But I would not be
Speaker 2: looking for another building in season two. But I think
Speaker 2: it totally makes sense. And I mean the you know,
Speaker 2: professional golf will likely played on the West Coast in
Speaker 2: the early part of the year forever would be a
Speaker 2: I rarely use that word, but it's a safe bet
Speaker 2: considering you know, it's great weather and all the reasons.
Speaker 2: It's worked for the last sixty seventy years, so it
Speaker 2: makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1: Would the tech ever allow for an outdoor stadium, That's
Speaker 1: something that I thought about with the West Coast.
Speaker 2: So, I mean one of the tests we did, like
Speaker 2: I think it was the second or third test, we
Speaker 2: actually went to interlock In Country Club in Orlando and
Speaker 2: we would set up launch monitors that were tied to
Speaker 2: a simulator game full Swings, and we would then the
Speaker 2: ball would fly into a net like we had a
Speaker 2: net set up on the driving range, and then we
Speaker 2: would go chip and putt on a chipping green because
Speaker 2: we were just testing and there was not a test
Speaker 2: center or this you know Sofi center at all. So
Speaker 2: I think so, I mean, look at look at the technology.
Speaker 2: Like anything. The first top golf was the hardest one
Speaker 2: to build, right, and then you learn and things get easier.
Speaker 2: So is there one you can spin up in uh,
Speaker 2: you know, the stadium in Vegas or at Sofi Stadium
Speaker 2: in la and then spin it back down? Like I
Speaker 2: certainly think it's possible over the long term as the
Speaker 2: technology improves.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's something I was I thinking. You just immediately
Speaker 1: start to think about like how this thing could evolve.
Speaker 1: But like you know, like I think one of the
Speaker 1: things the smartest things that has done is the time
Speaker 1: frame and when it's when it's on, the time of
Speaker 1: year it's on, is just like it's this really good opportunity.
Speaker 1: Like I'm most people are at home, it's dark out.
Speaker 1: Like one thought I had was, Okay, the West coast,
Speaker 1: it doesn't rain in the summer, you know, like you couldn't.
Speaker 1: I don't think you could do it now on the
Speaker 1: West coast because you might get a freak rain out right,
Speaker 1: but you could conceivably do it on the West Coast
Speaker 1: at five pm on a on a Monday or Tuesday
Speaker 1: night in August, and you're competing against nothing, you know,
Speaker 1: and the vast majority of the country. It's gonna be
Speaker 1: dark at that time, and you're you're all of a
Speaker 1: sudden creating this a similar aspect, but it's outdoors like,
Speaker 1: and that could be a cool twist in the summer,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, it's a good point. The indoor part
Speaker 2: really matters, though, I tell you, like, this is Florida.
Speaker 2: Like I was just outside and it was pouring rain.
Speaker 2: It's not going to affect the competition at all. I mean,
Speaker 2: the I think the saddest it's the right word, but
Speaker 2: professional golf, it was always I wasn't worried about myself
Speaker 2: when we would have these brutal rain weeks. Like people
Speaker 2: spend a year getting ready for these things, right, People
Speaker 2: pour their hard and soul and money into whether it's
Speaker 2: the US Open or a college event, and then it
Speaker 2: just rains for three days and it's just I feel
Speaker 2: bad for everyone involved. This is a big indoor is
Speaker 2: a big asset, I mean it really is. Indoor prime
Speaker 2: time is tough to overcome. So I would vote indoor
Speaker 2: for now, but I think it's possible to do creative
Speaker 2: things as the technology improves.
Speaker 1: With Obviously, before Monday, there was a huge rule change.
Speaker 1: You know this This shook the sports world, the greater
Speaker 1: sports world, everybody, everybody was talking about the rules, the
Speaker 1: hammer hammer rule change. I think it was a good
Speaker 1: rule change to where like people they feel like they
Speaker 1: have to use it. I think it's like a fascinating
Speaker 1: strategy piece. Now, like it's pretty clear that they don't
Speaker 1: know how to use it, like when to there. They
Speaker 1: seem to be like waiting to use the hammer, which
Speaker 1: doubles the point total of it. If it's accepted. If
Speaker 1: it's not accepted, it's automatically the hole is over. It
Speaker 1: seems like a lot of people are using it when
Speaker 1: the holes are a effectively over. But what went into
Speaker 1: the rule change?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you know, credit to TGL. They've had
Speaker 2: an open mind about everything, right, I mean, you're always
Speaker 2: balancing somebody you know, spends a lot of time and
Speaker 2: energy to put something out into the world and then
Speaker 2: feed back comes back. You know, like you have to
Speaker 2: be kind of an adult to say, Okay, maybe what
Speaker 2: I made wasn't perfect. Let's listen to the customer and
Speaker 2: let's listen to the fan, and let's consider a change.
Speaker 2: And I mean they were really thoughtful about it, and
Speaker 2: that's something like I get to be involved in the conversations,
Speaker 2: which is fun. But I think it doesn't just go there.
Speaker 2: Like they added a like a pin camera this week.
Speaker 2: They changed the walkout, you know, Cadence like to make
Speaker 2: it quicker, get to the first shot faster, like they're
Speaker 2: making changes to improve the product constantly. But yeah, I
Speaker 2: mean the hammer, you know, three per team, Like I
Speaker 2: can explain to someone in five seconds. They understand like
Speaker 2: a set number per team. It's like timeouts and other sports.
Speaker 2: And then one thing that happened a lot was like
Speaker 2: in venue, fans would be like throw the hammer, throw
Speaker 2: the hammer, and they didn't have it. The other team
Speaker 2: had it, so you know, you just created for some
Speaker 2: kind of awkward situations. You know the Tiger Rory match,
Speaker 2: they were like seven thrown under the old format and
Speaker 2: that match came down to over like it really, we
Speaker 2: did this thing so much and it really could work.
Speaker 2: But I think it's a really positive change. I think
Speaker 2: it's working better.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 1: What was your favorite format that you tested that you
Speaker 1: didn't use.
Speaker 2: Uh god, I'm trying to think back to that first one.
Speaker 2: We just had goofy stuff. Like I just remember like
Speaker 2: one player sitting there for like thirty five minutes not
Speaker 2: hitting a shot, and it was like, I mean, because
Speaker 2: we didn't know if it was gonna be four players
Speaker 2: or three players or you know. Again, all of this
Speaker 2: was like from scratch net knew. So it was like
Speaker 2: a bunch of college ex college players and me and
Speaker 2: some some buddies that did the first one ever at
Speaker 2: like a simulator bar. And it's definitely come a long
Speaker 2: way since then.
Speaker 1: I've been with another buddy trying to create a golf game. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's so fun to test it, and we did.
Speaker 1: We did a test, you know, a couple of months
Speaker 1: ago of it, and the people that we like forced
Speaker 1: it on people, and like there were some literally like
Speaker 1: f this game. Yeah, you know, it's so fun trying
Speaker 1: something new and like you quickly realize like what works,
Speaker 1: what doesn't work when you're playing it in person.
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. Yeah, and some of this stuff like really
Speaker 2: takes off. I mean the birdie bet at my club
Speaker 2: at Annsleys, you need a birdie every hole during the
Speaker 2: calendar year, right, Like.
Speaker 1: That thing is spread like four people that could conceivably
Speaker 1: do that.
Speaker 2: Those guys play a lot of golf, but like that's
Speaker 2: really taken off.
Speaker 1: It's so hard to burdy every hole of course in
Speaker 1: a calendar year. I know, I know.
Speaker 2: But if you play, you know, if you're a real
Speaker 2: estate guy who plays two hundred rounds a year, it helps,
Speaker 2: definitely helps a lot. But yeah, I mean people have
Speaker 2: fun with different things. I think it's good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, of course, I grew up playing at the One
Speaker 1: member had eagled every hole he played there for like ever.
Speaker 1: It was insane.
Speaker 2: That's like the old was it Snead or was it
Speaker 2: who was it that like made a hole in one
Speaker 2: with like thirteen clubs of their back. It was like
Speaker 2: either Sarah's in or Sneat or whatever. He had like
Speaker 2: forty two hole in ones with thirteen clubs in the back.
Speaker 1: All right, well, Roberto, thank you for joining us to
Speaker 1: chat TGL. You'll be locked in again tonight, but the
Speaker 1: people will be, you know. Reacting from the Jupe links
Speaker 1: New York Golf Club, I feel bad for producer PJ
Speaker 1: his New York Golf clubs and a bad spot, right,
Speaker 1: now there are maybe the ones that need to make
Speaker 1: the most off season moves.
Speaker 2: So yeah, they may need to make some moves. You know,
Speaker 2: you can get Juan Soda though, you can probably get another.
Speaker 2: You can probably line up some sort of tour start.
Speaker 2: Sneak in the back door.
Speaker 1: A sneaky thing is like to think about what happens
Speaker 1: TGL if Live and the Tour are back together by
Speaker 1: the end of the year, what TGL season two looks like,
Speaker 1: what players could be added in?
Speaker 2: Yeah, interesting thought. I think like it goes back to
Speaker 2: team golf. Like these these guys are starting to like
Speaker 2: feel like they're part of a team. You know, there's
Speaker 2: an ownership group. There's like I'm not sure that uh
Speaker 2: and with a small crew like team Dynamics matter, right,
Speaker 2: I could see the current team players wanting there to
Speaker 2: hand pick uh next season's roster if there was additions
Speaker 2: to it.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm just waiting for a GM position to
Speaker 1: open up. That's I want to move into a GM role.
Speaker 2: Management role, Yeah, I want to.
Speaker 1: I want to be They can't these players can't manage themselves.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's plenty of agents out there. I don't think
Speaker 2: you're the first person to think about that.
Speaker 1: All right, Well, Roberto, thanks for thanks for joining and
Speaker 1: everybody should check out your podcast and uh and and
Speaker 1: we look forward to watching more tgl.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for having me on you got New York
Speaker 2: and Jupiter tonight. And then we do have a podcast
Speaker 2: episode coming up soon with Chad Mum who has his
Speaker 2: pro shop business in the new season of Full Swing,
Speaker 2: so interesting business angle on what he's trying to do
Speaker 2: over there. Smart guy. Looking forward to chatting with with
Speaker 2: Mom here pretty soon.
Speaker 1: All right, big thanks to Roberto. As a reminder, check
Speaker 1: out that Course Record podcast, his podcast about the business
Speaker 1: side of golf if you're interested in hearing more. Before
Speaker 1: we get to Zach, let's talk about our partner, good
Speaker 1: Walk Coffee. I have had a lot of house guests
Speaker 1: this month, lots of people in and out of my
Speaker 1: world in my house. And one of the things, one
Speaker 1: of the highlights of hosting is everybody always asked me
Speaker 1: about the coffee that I'm serving because they are overwhelmed
Speaker 1: at how good it is. And we I serve the
Speaker 1: fried egg blend of good Walk Coffee in our house
Speaker 1: and I'm astound at how many people comment about the coffee.
Speaker 1: So we have two different blends with our friends at Goodwalkcoffee.
Speaker 1: We have the fried Egg Blend, which is a medium
Speaker 1: light roast, and we have the Shotgun Start blend, which
Speaker 1: is a medium dark roast. This coffee we make in
Speaker 1: partnership with with Goodwalk and you know, I get mine
Speaker 1: delivered a monthly. I get two bags a month when
Speaker 1: I'm hosting people. It's kind of a bummer. I'm out
Speaker 1: of coffee right now. I could go on to goodwalkot
Speaker 1: Cooffee dot com and order more, but the subscription is
Speaker 1: so nice because I get just shipped and I almost
Speaker 1: never run out unless we're hosting people. So if you
Speaker 1: want to get your goodwalkcoffee, go to Goodwalkcoffee dot com,
Speaker 1: slash fried Egg and use the promo code fried egg
Speaker 1: to save twenty percent on your entire order. If you
Speaker 1: sign up for one of those subscriptions, which I really recommend,
Speaker 1: you'll save thirty percent on your first order and ten
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Speaker 1: Thanks all right, Zach Blair, regular of the show. It's
Speaker 1: great to have you back on It's been a while
Speaker 1: since we caught up Talk Golf, courses. I wanted to
Speaker 1: do that, but you know, I gotta say, I feel
Speaker 1: old right now. You're this is your tenth season on
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour. Yeah, and I just was thinking back.
Speaker 1: This is like a memory, vivid early memory of the
Speaker 1: origins of what I do. It was Sunday night. It
Speaker 1: was the second PGA Tour event I ever wrote about,
Speaker 1: Like we started the Friday newsletter in December of twenty fifteen,
Speaker 1: So it's Kapalua. And then the next Sunday, I've got
Speaker 1: work Monday morning, I'm a Central time I'm up working,
Speaker 1: working late on the Frida Egg and I'm watching Zach
Speaker 1: Blair duke it out with Fabian Gomez at at the
Speaker 1: Sony and you hit that shot and you said, oh,
Speaker 1: that's so good, right? Was that what you said? Is
Speaker 1: there a three wood? On eighteen? I remember, like I
Speaker 1: remember exactly where I was. I was at my my
Speaker 1: friend's apartment, and I can't believe it was ten years
Speaker 1: It was ten years ago.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that's crazy. I I also remember where I
Speaker 4: was at that you know.
Speaker 1: That time, probably remember like everything about that shot.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I remember the putt for sure, like
Speaker 4: foot out. I was like Oh that's that's money, you know,
Speaker 4: buried it. This is awesome, let's go. But you know
Speaker 4: it was a fun week for sure.
Speaker 1: What you're you're ten on tour?
Speaker 4: What what do you like?
Speaker 1: What do you think about going into a season? You're
Speaker 1: obviously you've played a couple of weeks, but like, what's
Speaker 1: the what are the thoughts that like? How is it
Speaker 1: different than twenty sixteen?
Speaker 4: You know, finishing finishing one twenty six is a you know, different,
Speaker 4: different spot obviously. You know every week is kind of
Speaker 4: trying to figure out if you're going to get in
Speaker 4: and you know, be an alternate or have to go.
Speaker 4: So especially the first couple of months of the season,
Speaker 4: it's obviously a little different. But you know, been out
Speaker 4: there a long time, kind of know most of the courses.
Speaker 4: Excited to get some opportunities hopefully this year. And uh
Speaker 4: it's still fun though, you know, still golf still the job.
Speaker 4: Got to go play good for four rounds and yeah,
Speaker 4: it's awesome. I mean it's a pretty good gig.
Speaker 1: Mister one twenty six two times two times of crazy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, tough scene.
Speaker 1: Let's uh, let's talk about golf courses. I gave you
Speaker 1: a little Simon. This is kind of a recurring segment,
Speaker 1: I guess on this podcast, as recurring as anything is.
Speaker 1: You know, where we talk to people about golf courses
Speaker 1: they think about the most. So I asked you, what
Speaker 1: are what are the three golf courses that you are
Speaker 1: find yourself thinking about the most, And uh, let's start
Speaker 1: with with number one or number three, whichever one you
Speaker 1: want to go.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I think this is definitely something that changes,
Speaker 4: you know, based on what's going on and you know,
Speaker 4: trips coming up or where you're going to be. But
Speaker 4: I tried to take most of the you know, most
Speaker 4: of that out of it because for example, you know,
Speaker 4: when we were building the tree farm, you know, I
Speaker 4: was going over to England and you know, I was
Speaker 4: thinking about all the heathland golf courses for a really
Speaker 4: long time. So those, you know, those definitely popped into
Speaker 4: my mind for you know, which courses do I think
Speaker 4: about the most? It? I think for me, I've tried
Speaker 4: to maybe generalize it a little more of just like
Speaker 4: in the last ten years, like you know, what are
Speaker 4: what are my favorites or what are what are my
Speaker 4: courses I'm thinking about the most? And I think the
Speaker 4: Tree Farm, you know, obviously a clear number one, just
Speaker 4: building it and you know, kind of being that part
Speaker 4: of it, you know, kind of think about it every
Speaker 4: day for the last like five years plus, So that's
Speaker 4: kind of that's the number one.
Speaker 1: Am I going one?
Speaker 4: One through three? Are we talking about them?
Speaker 1: Or what's the Well, let's let's talk about it. Let's
Speaker 1: unpack here. Number one. I expected this. I expected Tree
Speaker 1: Farm to be number one, and I think anybody that
Speaker 1: that didn't expect it to be number one, you know,
Speaker 1: I think we would have to have to see why
Speaker 1: you expected something else to be number one. But with
Speaker 1: Tree Farm obviously, like I think like the whole process
Speaker 1: of it is you know, as you said, five years
Speaker 1: effectively like you bought you bought the property for Tree Farm,
Speaker 1: like basically the week the world shut down the during COVID,
Speaker 1: it was like the first week of COVID that you
Speaker 1: went down and purchased the property. So like you think
Speaker 1: about like you're looking for land before then, and now
Speaker 1: like this is you know this fall, you just finished
Speaker 1: the lodging at Tree Farm, so it's like finally a
Speaker 1: fully operational club.
Speaker 4: Yep.
Speaker 1: And we've talked over the years a lot about the
Speaker 1: construction of Tree Farm. What are you thinking about now
Speaker 1: with Tree Farm? Now that like all the big the
Speaker 1: big things are done.
Speaker 4: Uh yeah, so long process, like you kind of mentioned,
Speaker 4: I think now that those big things are in place,
Speaker 4: the golf course has kind of you know, been around
Speaker 4: for a couple of years. For me, I kind of
Speaker 4: always saw the golf course for sure, as you know
Speaker 4: that there would be some tweaks and changes and you
Speaker 4: know it would evolve over time. I felt like kind
Speaker 4: of the best golf courses in the world always, you know,
Speaker 4: have that in common. Basically, they don't just roll it
Speaker 4: out and say all right, we got it perfect. You know,
Speaker 4: let's let's just go with it forever. So you know,
Speaker 4: I'm always kind of constantly thinking about what are certain
Speaker 4: things that need to be tweaked or changed. And I
Speaker 4: know it's a fine line, you know, you don't want
Speaker 4: to get caught up, you know, like some other places
Speaker 4: that just are making changes to make changes. But I'm
Speaker 4: always looking at it like how could this be better?
Speaker 4: Not just for how I'm playing the golf course, but
Speaker 4: you know, for how everybody else is playing it. So
Speaker 4: I think just kind of continuing to to tweak certain things,
Speaker 4: you know, continue to add add stuff and work on
Speaker 4: the drainage or work on, you know, anything. The whole
Speaker 4: team's kind of, you know, always thinking about those sorts
Speaker 4: of things, and I think it will kind of continue
Speaker 4: to evolve over the next, you know, forever.
Speaker 1: I guess you've got a membership, you have people, and
Speaker 1: I think the one thing that's common with any membership
Speaker 1: is everybody's got takes, everybody's got opinions, everybody's got feedback.
Speaker 1: How do you how do you like process the feedback?
Speaker 1: Like what do you you know, because like I think
Speaker 1: everybody will tell you what they think about it like that.
Speaker 1: I think that's the thing that's fascinating about golf is
Speaker 1: like everybody everybody's entitled an opinion. Everybody's opinion is has
Speaker 1: valid reasoning behind it. But like you're the one at
Speaker 1: the end of the day that's got to process and
Speaker 1: this feedback, and like, what how do you kind of
Speaker 1: think about taking people's feedback?
Speaker 4: For me, I'm I'm always kind of maybe overreaching for feedback.
Speaker 4: I kind of ask everybody what they think. I typically
Speaker 4: honestly kind of look at the t sheet each day
Speaker 4: and see who's out there and you know, reach out
Speaker 4: and see what the day was like and what they
Speaker 4: liked and disliked, and kind of looking for some constructive criticism,
Speaker 4: you know. But I've really kind of taken most of
Speaker 4: the feedback the last handful of years, just because the
Speaker 4: course has been playable and open since you know, at
Speaker 4: least twenty twenty three. And you know, I feel like
Speaker 4: there's like common things that people you know, piggyback on
Speaker 4: and start having takes on, and you know, some of
Speaker 4: them are valid and some of them aren't. And again
Speaker 4: I try to kind of evaluate which ones make sense
Speaker 4: and which ones I see maybe overlapping with what other
Speaker 4: people are kind of talking about, and maybe think of
Speaker 4: some strategies to make adjustments. But overall, I mean, the
Speaker 4: goal the place was to be really fun, you know,
Speaker 4: for everybody that went out and played, not just really
Speaker 4: good golfers. So again, it's kind of a fine line
Speaker 4: of hearing the stuff and figuring out if if you
Speaker 4: should actually explore those those things, because obviously not everyone's
Speaker 4: an expert, right everybody. You could just have somebody that is,
Speaker 4: you know, pretty new to the golf architecture world or
Speaker 4: just new to golf in general that is like, oh,
Speaker 4: you know that you know this screen is a little
Speaker 4: too extreme or too much, you know, but you might
Speaker 4: have some other people that are like, oh, that's my
Speaker 4: favorite green out there. So it's always kind of, uh,
Speaker 4: you know, a fine line.
Speaker 1: I think the thing that I think about a lot
Speaker 1: too is like how much your opinion can change. Your
Speaker 1: thoughts change with repeated plays, different wins, different days, like
Speaker 1: different places that you end up.
Speaker 4: Like.
Speaker 1: I think like I had a you know, I had
Speaker 1: such a different opinion of stream song black the second
Speaker 1: time I played it then the first time I played it.
Speaker 1: First time I played it, I played outstanding, I had
Speaker 1: the ball on the string, and the second time I
Speaker 1: played it it was complete opposite. I hit it just
Speaker 1: all over the place and was found myself hitting like
Speaker 1: recovery shots left and right, and I thought like, wow,
Speaker 1: this is really fun because like I'm having to really
Speaker 1: think about like these shots versus the first time I
Speaker 1: didn't really think about anything, you know, And I think, like,
Speaker 1: that's that's just generally an interesting thing. But like people
Speaker 1: are most app I would say, to give you feedback
Speaker 1: after their first time around.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think a lot of people, you know,
Speaker 4: might not get the chance to play it more than
Speaker 4: once that you might be hearing feedback from or they
Speaker 4: might you know, only play it once a year, and
Speaker 4: you know, it might take a really long time for
Speaker 4: them to get kind of that repeat look at the place.
Speaker 4: And that is kind of like one of the dangerous
Speaker 4: things about just opinion with golf, or you know, there's
Speaker 4: tons of other things that kind of fall into that category,
Speaker 4: but like with golf, for sure, I feel like you
Speaker 4: really need like several looks at a golf course before
Speaker 4: you can really you know, from different teas and seeing
Speaker 4: different pins, and like you mentioned, being on different spots
Speaker 4: of a golf hole can just completely change it. You
Speaker 4: might hit the perfect shot, be in the perfect spot
Speaker 4: and think like, oh, this is kind of a nothing hole,
Speaker 4: and then the next day you play it and you
Speaker 4: find yourself in the wrong spot and you're like, oh, wow,
Speaker 4: it's super advantageous to be over where I was yesterday
Speaker 4: to that spot and I didn't even know that. So
Speaker 4: it is kind of one of the dangerous things. You know,
Speaker 4: I've learned that over the last ten fifteen years that
Speaker 4: it's hard to give like a very expert opinion about
Speaker 4: a place until you've really kind of you know, seen
Speaker 4: it in depth a few times.
Speaker 1: Being an active salt consider of feedback, what's been the
Speaker 1: feedback that you have been kind of most proud of,
Speaker 1: Like when you think about the I mean, it is
Speaker 1: a herculean effort to build a golf course, a just
Speaker 1: let alone a golf course, an entire golf facility. So
Speaker 1: what's been kind of like the piece of feedback that's
Speaker 1: kind of brought you the most joy and happiness with
Speaker 1: everything that you've gone through to build the golf course.
Speaker 4: I think on the golf course side, it's just people
Speaker 4: having fun. Again, I mentioned that earlier, like that that
Speaker 4: was the entire goal. You know, we didn't try and
Speaker 4: build the championship golf course that was going to host
Speaker 4: you know, professional events or anything like that. We just
Speaker 4: wanted a place where you could go out and make
Speaker 4: some birdies and have fun and you know, get some
Speaker 4: different looks and just be exciting kind of you know
Speaker 4: for for four hours, you know, to go mess around
Speaker 4: and have fun. So that on the golf side, and
Speaker 4: then I mean.
Speaker 1: Just hold on though, you say, like go out like
Speaker 1: you got to hit some big time golf shots out there,
Speaker 1: Like yeah, you can make birdies, but like I mean,
Speaker 1: you think about four, you got to like stand up
Speaker 1: and you got to hit a shot. Eight you got
Speaker 1: to hit a hit a damn good golf shot, you
Speaker 1: know twice. I think like, there's as it is friendly,
Speaker 1: but it is by no means like here you go here,
Speaker 1: I'm just hand.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think again, kind of just you know, beating
Speaker 4: this point up. But you know, the goal was always like, hey,
Speaker 4: if I go play really good, execute and do the
Speaker 4: right things, I'm gonna get some chances. And that's what
Speaker 4: it is out there, you know, pretty friendly off the tee.
Speaker 4: It can play somewhat long if you play like the
Speaker 4: tree Monster, t's all the way back, but you know
Speaker 4: not everyone obviously goes back there, so it's not overly
Speaker 4: long from like the te's that most people play. You know,
Speaker 4: a couple of the par fives are reachable if you
Speaker 4: hit some good shots. There's a couple of shortsh par fours,
Speaker 4: and you obviously got a couple of drivable par fours.
Speaker 4: So there's plenty of opportunities if you do the right stuff.
Speaker 4: But yes, there are a handful of kind of meaty
Speaker 4: golf holes. You know, threes really long, fours really long,
Speaker 4: eight's really long, twelve's really long, and you know fifteen
Speaker 4: can be pretty long too, and it is probably you know,
Speaker 4: one of the harder holes out there. So yeah, it's
Speaker 4: got that variance of where you're making a lot of birdies,
Speaker 4: but you can also make a lot of bogies. I think,
Speaker 4: just with the nature of being fairly generous off the
Speaker 4: tee and having so much short grass around the greens
Speaker 4: and not a lot of hazards in play. You know,
Speaker 4: there's maybe not like a ton of doubles just in
Speaker 4: play unless you really screw something up, either around the
Speaker 4: greens or off the tee. But again, that was kind
Speaker 4: of like contributing into the fun factor of you know,
Speaker 4: who wants to go get beat up? You know when
Speaker 4: they go play golf, especially on a golf course. They
Speaker 4: might only see you know.
Speaker 1: Elsair Mackenzie's principles, you know about a bad golf balls
Speaker 1: one where you can lose your golf ball. It's hard
Speaker 1: to lose golf ball out there.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, the the natives starting to you know,
Speaker 4: get a little dice here in spots, but overall, yeah,
Speaker 4: like you hear a lot of groups kind of say Hey,
Speaker 4: we you know, it was really cool. We didn't lose
Speaker 4: golf ball like for the entire group for the two
Speaker 4: day trip, which you know it was it was it
Speaker 4: was meant to be like that.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think back to like one of my
Speaker 1: least favorite rounds of golf of my lifetime, and this
Speaker 1: was pre this is when I was living in the city.
Speaker 1: I was playing with one of my best friends, which
Speaker 1: like should not be the barrier of least favorite rounds,
Speaker 1: but we're playing Harborside, which is a golf factor. It
Speaker 1: was a slow round, you know, this is mid twenties,
Speaker 1: and my buddy at the time had like a little
Speaker 1: case of the driver yips, and literally we look for
Speaker 1: golf balls like all day long.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's kind of nothing, nothing worse than that. I
Speaker 4: truly like, go into the round, uh and just say, hey,
Speaker 4: I don't expect you to look for mine. I'm not
Speaker 4: looking for yours. Just that's just it. Yeah, that's a
Speaker 4: house rule, you know for casual golf.
Speaker 1: It should you know, if there's nothing worse that when
Speaker 1: you're on like the right side of the fairway and
Speaker 1: you look over and it's like somebody that you don't know, well,
Speaker 1: is in like the left hay, and you're like, you
Speaker 1: know what, I gotta walk over there and act like
Speaker 1: I'm going to look for this golf ball. Otherwise this
Speaker 1: guy's going to think I'm an asshole.
Speaker 4: You got to get that out of the way. On
Speaker 4: the first t you just hey, you know you're on
Speaker 4: your own today. No events, not trying to be rude,
Speaker 4: but you know, I don't expect your help. You're not
Speaker 4: going to get mine.
Speaker 1: Take us behind the curtain here. I got to ask.
Speaker 1: You know, most people don't get the opportunity to build
Speaker 1: a golf course of their own. I think everybody dreams
Speaker 1: of this. What's the most annoying thing about building a
Speaker 1: golf course of your own? And it could be wide
Speaker 1: range is something that falls in the bucket of looking
Speaker 1: for somebody else's golf ball In terms of annoyance.
Speaker 4: I think on the operational side, it's like the weather,
Speaker 4: you know, every day, I'm just like, I feel so
Speaker 4: bad when the weather's bad. For people going on a trip,
Speaker 4: you know, you're like shit, you know when it's yours
Speaker 4: and you're again, I'm always kind of like reaching out
Speaker 4: to people seeing you know, what their trips like, or
Speaker 4: you know, what they liked or disliked. So it's just
Speaker 4: brutal kind of like always watching the weather in New
Speaker 4: Holland and being like, oh man, it's like really shitty today,
Speaker 4: you know, than trying to like get ahead of it
Speaker 4: as sorry the weather you know, stuck today. Hopefully you
Speaker 4: guys still had fun, but you know, that's definitely one
Speaker 4: of them. And then just just building it, you know,
Speaker 4: just kind of like the costs associated with it, you know,
Speaker 4: just kind of gets more and more expensive the you know,
Speaker 4: the bigger and better you're trying to build it. So
Speaker 4: I would love to go back like one hundred years
Speaker 4: and just you know, have some some really sick land
Speaker 4: to just kind of fall in your lap and you know,
Speaker 4: oh wow, my family owns you know, four hundred acres
Speaker 4: like on the ocean, Like let's go build a golf
Speaker 4: course there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that would be that would be nice. I think.
Speaker 1: You know, you got a great piece of land though,
Speaker 1: And that's I think one of the neat things about
Speaker 1: about the place, like most neat, most stunning is just
Speaker 1: the land and how it was able to be itself
Speaker 1: with how you built the golf course. Let's get to two.
Speaker 1: What's what's the number two on your list.
Speaker 4: You know you talked about it yesterday. I feel like
Speaker 4: you've got me, You've got me scoped out pretty good.
Speaker 4: I'm probably gonna go Pine Valley. You know. It's one
Speaker 4: of my favorite golf courses in the world. Like I
Speaker 4: kind of mentioned yesterday, I just feel like it's a
Speaker 4: bunch of unique looks throughout the round, really cool greens,
Speaker 4: and at least from the back teas, you feel so
Speaker 4: good about playing a good round of golf out there
Speaker 4: that it's kind of one that for me has always
Speaker 4: kind of been you know, that that bar of if
Speaker 4: you can get anywhere around that, like you're doing something right.
Speaker 1: I think the thing that's interesting about Pine Valley is
Speaker 1: outside of baby like a couple shots out there, no
Speaker 1: hole do you stand on, and you are like this
Speaker 1: is this is n like nothing is like outwardly hard
Speaker 1: about it, like overwhelmingly hard outside of maybe a couple shots.
Speaker 1: But when you put together the entirety of it and
Speaker 1: the like I think, like if you think about golf,
Speaker 1: like there are golf shots that very if you said,
Speaker 1: if you associated a a ten stress level with shots
Speaker 1: to a zero stress level, I feel like Pine Valley
Speaker 1: just like hovers at six for eighteen holes like between
Speaker 1: like five and eight, Like nothing is like overwhelming ten
Speaker 1: out of this world hard shot, but there is also
Speaker 1: no shot that you can ever take your attention away from.
Speaker 1: And and it's that that kind of makes it such
Speaker 1: a diff course because once you're out of position, like
Speaker 1: big number is kind of what you said about Tree Farm,
Speaker 1: where like double like it feels like once you're out
Speaker 1: of position there you are like, Okay, how do I
Speaker 1: make bogie?
Speaker 4: Sometimes yeah, yeah, totally, I think, you know, again, not
Speaker 4: as generous off the tea as the Tree Farm, but
Speaker 4: fairly generous, especially once you kind of I think visually
Speaker 4: off the tee. There's a lot of shots where you're like, oh,
Speaker 4: this is you know, a tough t shot. Then you
Speaker 4: kind of get up there and you look around and
Speaker 4: look back and you're like, oh gosh, there's there's way
Speaker 4: more room up here than you think. But the the differentiator,
Speaker 4: I guess is like those shots into the green. If
Speaker 4: and when you do miss, you find yourself in like
Speaker 4: really challenging spots that aren't that kind of guaranteed. Oh well,
Speaker 4: I'm gonna get it on the green. You know, you
Speaker 4: see a lot of really bad things happen out of
Speaker 4: the bunkers, and you know from missus, it's honestly kind
Speaker 4: of like the exact opposite of the tree farm. Around
Speaker 4: the greens, you know, like not a lot of short grass,
Speaker 4: a lot of stuff like very repelle. You know, like
Speaker 4: balls bouncing into really really bad spots and you know,
Speaker 4: not guaranteed you're gonna get a good lie or anything
Speaker 4: like that. So but I do agree, like maybe outside
Speaker 4: of the t shot on five, you know, the par three,
Speaker 4: there's not like a ton of wow, I have to
Speaker 4: hit a perfect shot like there you gotta hit you
Speaker 4: got to hit a really really good shot with a
Speaker 4: really long club. But you know, other than that, greens
Speaker 4: are pretty big, fair ways are pretty big. But you know,
Speaker 4: you just got to kind of execute and hopefully, you know,
Speaker 4: you're at least u able to get the ball in
Speaker 4: the short grass off the tea most of the day,
Speaker 4: because if you don't, that's where you get into like
Speaker 4: some you know, really bad stuff the.
Speaker 1: Greens, I think, like, so my experience there this year
Speaker 1: was it was first time playing it, and I took
Speaker 1: a red eye in and I was playing like the
Speaker 1: next morning and my my clubs didn't make it so
Speaker 1: and it was blown like twenty five and and like
Speaker 1: so I'm playing Reynolds clubs and it's really quimby. And
Speaker 1: what I like, what I felt, I just didn't feel
Speaker 1: like I had very much control of the golf ball.
Speaker 1: And I hit it pretty well, but like what I
Speaker 1: saw was like, Okay, I'm hitting greens, but I'm like
Speaker 1: never in the right spot, Like I didn't know exactly
Speaker 1: how far the ball was going to go because I
Speaker 1: just like, you know, you're and and once you lose
Speaker 1: that exactly, like I think, like the thing about the
Speaker 1: lag putting out there is so hard and if you
Speaker 1: get above flags, and this is the case, I think, like,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't want this isn't meant to be
Speaker 1: like a shot at the PGA Tour, but I guess
Speaker 1: it is. But like when you get to the place
Speaker 1: where you have a lot of slope in greens and
Speaker 1: slope around cups, the precision in knowing where like when
Speaker 1: you're playing I'd never played it, I don't know where
Speaker 1: I want to miss shots, And the first time around it,
Speaker 1: it just felt like even when I hit good shots,
Speaker 1: I'm getting up there and I'm like, oh, this is
Speaker 1: probably the worst spot I could be hitting this eighteen
Speaker 1: foot putt from, you know, and like the slope around
Speaker 1: the greens just makes it the greens, like I don't
Speaker 1: think like necessarily like everybody always talks about to the
Speaker 1: greens there, but the greens as a whole are so
Speaker 1: good because they reinforce everything back.
Speaker 4: Yeah. I've always been a fan of putting out there,
Speaker 4: and to your point, kind of a lot of a
Speaker 4: lot of tilt. You know, a lot of them have
Speaker 4: that right amount of tilt where you got to kind
Speaker 4: of marry the line and the speed and you got
Speaker 4: to be in the right spot to be able to
Speaker 4: be aggressive. And you know, you'll get in certain holes
Speaker 4: or certain spots where wow, I hit a really good
Speaker 4: shot and you might be twelve feet just past it
Speaker 4: above the hole and you're kind of like, all right,
Speaker 4: well now I'm playing defense a little bit. So yeah,
Speaker 4: you're you're.
Speaker 1: Either deciding like am I going to try and make
Speaker 1: this or am I just going to try and cozy
Speaker 1: this up? Yeah, And they're a completely different like, and
Speaker 1: you know it's such a hard spot to be in.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Yeah, to your point, you know, you don't get
Speaker 4: a ton of those golf courses out on the PGA Tour.
Speaker 4: You know, you're getting a lot more kind of like
Speaker 4: modern stuff with a lot more little internal stuff around
Speaker 4: the greens that they can get really really fast, but
Speaker 4: you get a lot of putts that are inside the hole,
Speaker 4: and you know that sort of thing from from close
Speaker 4: range where I mean, the tournament's not there this week,
Speaker 4: but like you know, when it's at Riviera you kind
Speaker 4: of see that a little more on display, where you
Speaker 4: get a lot of little five six seven footers that
Speaker 4: are like not inside the hole, and uh, it definitely
Speaker 4: makes golf a lot more difficult when when that's the case.
Speaker 1: Yes, I mean that, I think that's what we all
Speaker 1: love about the major championships. Yeah, is that's like I
Speaker 1: think I can't think of a great golf course that
Speaker 1: doesn't have a set of greens that like when you're
Speaker 1: five six feet away, you're like regularly outside the hole.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, greens are important. Greens are important.
Speaker 1: Is there a particular hole that maybe at Pine Valley
Speaker 1: that maybe wasn't your favorite your first times around but
Speaker 1: has grown into one of your favorites.
Speaker 4: I think fourteen, the part three down the hill. They're
Speaker 4: always kind of rifies me. They're always kind of messing
Speaker 4: around with stuff out there, you know, And I do
Speaker 4: think they've tweaked kind of the back teees a little
Speaker 4: bit and lowered it any bit. You know, you get
Speaker 4: a windy day, your ball is just in the air
Speaker 4: so long from those back tees that it's just kind
Speaker 4: of like, I hope I get the right gust. I
Speaker 4: hope I hit it good but not too good and
Speaker 4: go long. So that was one maybe the first time
Speaker 4: I saw it. And this kind of goes back to
Speaker 4: the point about seeing a place one time. I probably
Speaker 4: left left that day going like, ah, yeah, like there's
Speaker 4: a lot of really good holes, Like I really don't
Speaker 4: like fourteen. I think it's too much. And then you know,
Speaker 4: seeing it a handful more times and different conditions, and
Speaker 4: like I said, they changed kind of some stuff here
Speaker 4: and there, I've kind of grown to be like, oh,
Speaker 4: it's a pretty it's a pretty cool hole, and I've
Speaker 4: liked it a lot more since.
Speaker 1: I had like the worst first experience at fourteen you
Speaker 1: could have. I absolutely flushed an iron and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: that might go in and then just curse splash just
Speaker 1: right in the drink and I'm like, yeah, what just
Speaker 1: have and next time played it, you know, over the top,
Speaker 1: just dumped it into the left bunker, made sure it
Speaker 1: wasn't short. May I think I've made double both ways?
Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah, that that again, that's kind of the balls
Speaker 4: just in the air so long on that whole. You
Speaker 4: get a tough wind and it's just you kind of
Speaker 4: like I hope it kind of is going through the
Speaker 4: wind but not too much, you know. So Yeah, it's
Speaker 4: a hard, hard shot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's uh, it's the one that it gets you
Speaker 1: thinking it and like it. It's honestly like a hole.
Speaker 1: It's like a perfect example of a hole. That is it.
Speaker 1: The more the more your golf brain works, the harder
Speaker 1: the hole is because like, no matter what in the
Speaker 1: back of your head, you're one. Because you can't really
Speaker 1: feel the wind. It's kind of got like a little
Speaker 1: twelve at Augusta where like you can't really feel the
Speaker 1: wind and you're just like you can never get yourself
Speaker 1: fully one, one hundred percent committed to hit the shot
Speaker 1: because you're thinking, like, is this really what's happening up there?
Speaker 4: Yeah, you're just really kind of trusting what you've felt.
Speaker 4: Maybe you're all you're changing directions on that course so
Speaker 4: much too, you know, so it's not like you have
Speaker 4: this well for the last you know, five holes, it's
Speaker 4: been this way, so let's make sure you know, we
Speaker 4: trust that. So it's hard. I think overall the course
Speaker 4: is just you get so many unique looks. I don't
Speaker 4: think there's a ton of shots you get up to
Speaker 4: and you're like, oh wow, this reminds me a lot
Speaker 4: of this hole here, or let alone like this hole
Speaker 4: anywhere else. You know, it's a lot of unique looks
Speaker 4: inside of the golf course. And then I think if
Speaker 4: you you know, it's obviously got the big scale, cool land,
Speaker 4: and if you sat there and talked to ten people
Speaker 4: after your round, they all might have different holes they
Speaker 4: think are the best hole out there. And anytime you
Speaker 4: get that sort of range where it's like, you know
Speaker 4: a lot of places you go and there like oh
Speaker 4: this is the best hole, this is my favorite hole there,
Speaker 4: you could honestly just sit there and talk with everyone
Speaker 4: the whole day about what they think is the best
Speaker 4: and why. And I've just always really enjoyed it. And
Speaker 4: you know, we kind of touched on it yesterday a
Speaker 4: little bit but it also seems like it could continue
Speaker 4: to get better the more they kind of, you know,
Speaker 4: want to lean maybe out of the fasio stuff and
Speaker 4: back into the you know, older stuff that you see
Speaker 4: pictures of and everything like that, and you know, we'll
Speaker 4: see what happens over time. I guess it's always the
Speaker 4: number one course in America though, right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: I think it's like number one course in America is
Speaker 1: such a like it's like in what regard, right, like
Speaker 1: the place I always say this is like the place
Speaker 1: I don't think like I could ever be happier than
Speaker 1: when I'm walking around Cyprus Point on a golf course.
Speaker 4: Yeah, like yeah, it's something.
Speaker 1: About like the whole the walk around it, like how
Speaker 1: you it's it feels like a hike because you get
Speaker 1: up into the cypress trees on fire or the motto,
Speaker 1: you get up into like the sand dunes on five
Speaker 1: and six, and you're in that forest and then you
Speaker 1: come out and I just like I think, like I
Speaker 1: don't think I could get like I could shoot one
Speaker 1: hundred and not be frustrated about being there, you know,
Speaker 1: whereas like at Pine Valley, like I could see myself
Speaker 1: getting very frustrated and not being as happy, but like,
Speaker 1: what is is it the number one course of what
Speaker 1: the number one course from a pure golf architecture standpoint,
Speaker 1: And what's in the ground? What is the ground?
Speaker 3: Like this is the hard thing with rating courses, right yeah, yeah, Again,
Speaker 3: I think it's all pretty subjective obviously, but it's got
Speaker 3: a lot of good everything outside of an ocean, right,
Speaker 3: And it's got good land, some really cool architecture, it's
Speaker 3: got really cool greens, and.
Speaker 4: It does it, like you said, not turned up to
Speaker 4: a ten on every single shot, but like you're never
Speaker 4: going below like a five or a six, right, You're
Speaker 4: kind of always in that like, oh this is really cool.
Speaker 4: Oh this is really cool. This is really cool, you know.
Speaker 4: And obviously you get a little more of that eye
Speaker 4: candy out there, and you you definitely have some kind
Speaker 4: of like wow looks, you know, when you go to
Speaker 4: two or you go to five or six anything like that.
Speaker 4: You kind of get that throughout the golf course, throughout
Speaker 4: the entire round. So I just think it has so
Speaker 4: much like better than average stuff the whole time that
Speaker 4: it kind of adds up to being pretty awesome some.
Speaker 1: Of some of the whole parts, right, Yeah, and it's
Speaker 1: got and it's got like super dramat moments. I think
Speaker 1: that's the thing that it's gotten. Like no, yeah, it
Speaker 1: just keeps your attention throughout. Yeah, all right, what is
Speaker 1: uh what's number three?
Speaker 4: You? Uh you kind of touched on it Cyprus. I think, uh,
Speaker 4: I went back and forth between like that and National
Speaker 4: and uh. I think just the setting of how dramatic
Speaker 4: it is and different you know, different spots of the
Speaker 4: course kind of like you talked about that. It was
Speaker 4: just kind of like, man, if you had one last
Speaker 4: round anywhere, you know, I'm probably I'm probably seeing if
Speaker 4: I can get a tea time out there, you know,
Speaker 4: go get it on a good day.
Speaker 1: That's I mean, that's the thing is. It's just there's
Speaker 1: there's a line that James Duncan used in a video
Speaker 1: that he like narrated about North Berwick for us and
Speaker 1: he's like, I don't know if it's the best or
Speaker 1: it's the good.
Speaker 4: It just is.
Speaker 1: And like I think about that a lot when I'm
Speaker 1: out there. Is like like I have like the hardest
Speaker 1: time separating like is this the greatest golf course? Like
Speaker 1: it's it's actually kind of like the course like an
Speaker 1: I the architecture is outstanding, but is the golf course.
Speaker 1: For me, that like the architecture means like the least
Speaker 1: because of just the natural setting and like Pebble down
Speaker 1: the road. Like, don't get me wrong, like Pebble is
Speaker 1: outstanding setting, but it's kind of like the same the
Speaker 1: whole time. And to me, like, yeah, the diversity of
Speaker 1: the of the natural areas that you play along, whether
Speaker 1: it's like whether you're back in the forest on four,
Speaker 1: five and six, or whether you're up in the high
Speaker 1: dunes on eight and nine, or you're right on the ocean,
Speaker 1: it is just like I, I.
Speaker 4: Just wouldn't feel like the way you go, the way
Speaker 4: you go in and out of them too, is kind
Speaker 4: of like bumps it up a little bit too. It's
Speaker 4: not like, hey, oh we're going you know here. You
Speaker 4: you see something, you go into something, you get out
Speaker 4: of it, you go back in, you know, and then
Speaker 4: obviously you kind of at one point get to like
Speaker 4: the most dramatic place anywhere, you know, in like that
Speaker 4: fifteen sixteen spot where you're just like, how could it
Speaker 4: get any better than this? You know, to just be
Speaker 4: out here maybe you know, I don't know, I don't
Speaker 4: know if fifteen is a great hole. I don't know
Speaker 4: if sixteen is a great hole. But the setting of them,
Speaker 4: and you know how much fun and how much variety
Speaker 4: you get with the winds and what's going on. You know,
Speaker 4: one's short, one's long. It's just like that like thirty
Speaker 4: minute stretch. You're just kind of like you can't help
Speaker 4: but just be like this is this is incredible, Like
Speaker 4: this is pretty awesome.
Speaker 1: I think you made a great point there about how
Speaker 1: you get in and out of them, out of the sections.
Speaker 1: The other aspect of that is you're never in one
Speaker 1: section for very long.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, again, like that that dipping in and out of
Speaker 4: those kind of like different envelopes of the land and
Speaker 4: how kind of like they all blend together and go
Speaker 4: together but feel very different. You know, when you get
Speaker 4: into four and get into you know that spot like
Speaker 4: deep into kind of like the dense woods and then
Speaker 4: fall down out of them, but then kind of like
Speaker 4: get introduced into like the sandy dunes and you're there
Speaker 4: for a second, then you pop back into the woods.
Speaker 4: I mean, it's pretty pretty crazy. I think that's like, uh,
Speaker 4: I think a very unique property in itself and and
Speaker 4: just like to rout it that way, to to not
Speaker 4: just be like, oh, we're gonna like you know, go
Speaker 4: get into the dunes and then like spend nine holes
Speaker 4: on the ocean or whatever, because that's your point. At Pebble,
Speaker 4: you're kind of just always on the cliff incredible, right,
Speaker 4: Like you could be out on those holes and just
Speaker 4: be like, man, how does it get better than five
Speaker 4: and six and seven and eight and nine and ten?
Speaker 4: But it, you know, generally plus or minus is kind
Speaker 4: of like the same thing. Big ocean, big cliffs. Great,
Speaker 4: but you're never like in and out and ups and
Speaker 4: downs as much as you are at Cyprus.
Speaker 1: That's the longer you spend time in one place. And
Speaker 1: I think this might be it the less like it's
Speaker 1: a diminishing value, right, the more normal it gets. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And maybe that's the magic of Cypress's kind of routing,
Speaker 1: and how how abbreviated the time periods are in different
Speaker 1: segment and how there are these like transition areas like
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about like kind of like whole six that
Speaker 1: plays up out of the forest down into the dunes,
Speaker 1: Like they're like kind of like these blends and then
Speaker 1: you know, uh, ten kind of plays in between, like
Speaker 1: you never are in a defined setting for really more
Speaker 1: than three holes there.
Speaker 4: And they're big, like big swings, you know what I mean,
Speaker 4: Like like you go way down the hill on six,
Speaker 4: and you go way up the hill on ten, and
Speaker 4: you got like you know, you get the dog leg
Speaker 4: right into the dunes on eight, and then kind of
Speaker 4: like down the hill on nine and fourteen you're kind
Speaker 4: of going up the hill. You know. It's just I
Speaker 4: think they're like big big swings. Where Pebble or those
Speaker 4: other places, you're kind of again kind of plus or
Speaker 4: minus like same ish elevations, you know, within like ten
Speaker 4: or twenty feet where at Cyprus. You know, they're like huge,
Speaker 4: huge swings.
Speaker 1: I think. You know, in a course that we it's
Speaker 1: similar to Pine Valley, right, there's a lot of variety
Speaker 1: in the forms and there's a lot of big stuff.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that I mean the scales, the scales, right,
Speaker 4: you know, it's it's pretty dial.
Speaker 1: All right, last question here before we get out of here,
Speaker 1: what's the what's the course course or courses or that
Speaker 1: your most want to see in twenty five.
Speaker 4: I mean, I would love to get down to Terry
Speaker 4: Edie and uh, you know, play some golf in New Zealand.
Speaker 4: Haven't been down there, and it, you know, feels like
Speaker 4: a pretty special spot from you know, the stuff that
Speaker 4: I've seen and heard do it.
Speaker 1: I think I had to just turned out, I had
Speaker 1: to turn down an invite there the other day. It
Speaker 1: killed me. It honestly gutted my soul.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's uh, it's just so far away,
Speaker 4: you know what I mean. And it's kind of like
Speaker 4: you've got kids, you know, it's just it's hard to
Speaker 4: it's hard to say, hey, I'm just gonna like pop
Speaker 4: down there on a trip without at least you could
Speaker 4: maybe like tie it to work and say, hey, I'm
Speaker 4: going to go, you know, do some profile on this course,
Speaker 4: and I really need to see it where you know,
Speaker 4: there's it's not like there's a golf tournament necessarily down
Speaker 4: there that I'm I'm looking to go tack it on,
Speaker 4: but I think I definitely want to see that at
Speaker 4: some point. And then Stateside, I think Prairie Dunes is
Speaker 4: one that you know, I've kind of just never been
Speaker 4: able to get out there, and bally Neil is probably
Speaker 4: another one that just haven't made it work. You know,
Speaker 4: it's only one stayed over. I can't believe I've never
Speaker 4: been there, but you know, every time I've seemingly tried to,
Speaker 4: you know, loop it into a trip or something, it's
Speaker 4: it's kind of fallen through.
Speaker 1: So these are they're they're both not like next door like.
Speaker 1: They both take a little bit of effort. Both of
Speaker 1: the Yeah, it's I think, you know. My issue with
Speaker 1: Terry Edie at this point is if I bring up
Speaker 1: New Zealand, my wife's kind of like, yeah, when are
Speaker 1: we going?
Speaker 4: Yeah, maybe we should just take the whole the bowl
Speaker 4: squads down in a few weeks.
Speaker 1: Then I started to add up the numbers on the
Speaker 1: cost and I'm like, uh, I don't know if this
Speaker 1: is the year.
Speaker 2: I don't think we can go.
Speaker 4: I don't think we can go.
Speaker 1: I don't know if this is a weed trip here.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I mean I would love to go play
Speaker 4: like the Ohs open and kind of do that and
Speaker 4: just pop over after and just make it a little
Speaker 4: more Okay, I'm down in Australia for a couple of
Speaker 4: weeks golfing and then hit it on the way home
Speaker 4: or some you know, just something that makes it a
Speaker 4: little more. I mean, I think you can spend you know,
Speaker 4: weeks in New Zealand, right, I mean there's there's good golf. Uh,
Speaker 4: you know, there's a ton of good golf there that
Speaker 4: you can go see.
Speaker 1: So we figure out he had kicked around Christmas, just
Speaker 1: doing the whole whole Christmas there. We were very close
Speaker 1: to pulling the trigger and we did not. It was
Speaker 1: it was it was sad when you know, I had
Speaker 1: some some things come up and it just was like
Speaker 1: the wrong wrong time. But we were like this close
Speaker 1: to doing it, and uh, it was very sad that
Speaker 1: we didn't.
Speaker 4: You know, yeah, it looks it looks cool. You know,
Speaker 4: I've kind of I've just heard so much good stuff
Speaker 4: about it. Obviously, Kai was was down there, you know,
Speaker 4: shaping a lot of it. Uh, you know, and I
Speaker 4: worked with him for a couple of years on the
Speaker 4: tree farm, and you know, it was kind of always
Speaker 4: one of those things that it always kind of gets
Speaker 4: brought up with, oh well we did this down there,
Speaker 4: and I thought this was really cool how this turned
Speaker 4: out down there, and uh, you know, seen seen like
Speaker 4: a good spot to check out.
Speaker 1: I just look. Twenty twenty five Australian Open is expected
Speaker 1: to remain on the Melbourne, sam Belt. So you know
Speaker 1: it has not been announced yet, but you know that's
Speaker 1: it seems like a good time.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I did that, you know, my first
Speaker 4: year on tour. So maybe it's a ten year thing.
Speaker 1: It's a ten year that's that's how you pitch it.
Speaker 1: Pitch it on the home front, a ten year anniversary,
Speaker 1: all right, Zach, I appreciate the time. Everybody can follow
Speaker 1: you on Instagram, lively Instagram account, and thanks for chatting
Speaker 1: golf courses with us.
Speaker 4: Yeah, of course, thank you guys for having me.
Speaker 1: All right, big thanks to Zach Blair for joining. Also
Speaker 1: big thanks to PJ. Clark for and producing this podcast.
Speaker 1: We will be back next week with another episode, and
Speaker 1: thank you guys for listening.