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Speaker 1: I believe that what's supposed to be will be, and

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Speaker 1: when I can get in that place of acceptance that

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Speaker 1: regardless of what happens with Maniac or the next single

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Speaker 1: or my album and how many first week sales it

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Speaker 1: does on YouTube numbers, all of that is not happiness.

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Speaker 1: It is completely Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose,

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Speaker 1: the number one health podcast in the world. Thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for coming back every week to become happier, healthier,

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Speaker 1: and more healed, something that I'm always working on for myself,

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Speaker 1: and I am so excited to be talking to you today.

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Speaker 1: I can't believe it. My new book, Eight Rules of

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Speaker 1: Love is out and I cannot wait to share it

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Speaker 1: with you. I am so so excited for you to

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Speaker 1: read this book, for you to listen to this book.

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Speaker 1: I read the audiobook. If you haven't got it already,

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Speaker 1: make sure you go to eight Rules of Love dot com.

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Speaker 1: It's dedicated to anyone who's trying to find, keep, or

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Speaker 1: go of love. So if you've got friends that are dating,

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Speaker 1: broken up, or struggling with love, make sure you grab

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Speaker 1: this book. And I'd love to invite you to come

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Speaker 1: and see me for my global tour Love Rules Go

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Speaker 1: to jasdytour dot com to learn more information about tickets,

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Speaker 1: VIP experiences, and more. I can't wait to see you

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Speaker 1: this year. And one of the things I love about

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Speaker 1: this community that we've built here is I love talking

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Speaker 1: to people who are using their platforms for a greater purpose,

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Speaker 1: who find artistic and creative ways to talk about the

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Speaker 1: things we care about here, whether that's mental health, personal growth, addiction,

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Speaker 1: personal challenges that we go through internally and externally. And

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Speaker 1: today's guest is someone who has used their platform through

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Speaker 1: and through to talk about really important, interesting, fascinating topics.

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about multi platinum and Grammy Award winning artists

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Speaker 1: Mac lamore, who's made history with a combination of commercial success,

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Speaker 1: critical acclaim, and internet national appeal with a total of

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Speaker 1: twelve point eight billion combined streams today and McLamore is

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Speaker 1: one of the most successful independent artists of the twenty

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Speaker 1: first century, and he's consistently used his art and platform

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Speaker 1: to raise awareness around issues of addiction and recovery. And

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Speaker 1: now the two new singles are out Chant and Maniac

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Speaker 1: makes you go and stream and listen McLamore, Ben, you

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Speaker 1: could tell me how how you want me to go. Ben,

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for making the trip to be here.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for this opportunity. Yeah, fantastic, amazing.

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Speaker 1: Let one take Oh yeah, well we had to cut

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Speaker 1: it down. I mean, there was so many achievements. I

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Speaker 1: was like, I need to get that. You know, everyone

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Speaker 1: knows who you are. I grew up listening to music

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Speaker 1: when I was back in London and so for me

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Speaker 1: to be sitting with you today is awesome. And you'll

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Speaker 1: see that for a few of the questions I'll ask.

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Speaker 1: But I wanted to pick out I love. There's a

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Speaker 1: lyric here that I wanted to share with you. It's

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Speaker 1: obviously one of yours, and I wanted to start with this,

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Speaker 1: your new song. Chaunt says. They told me that I vanished.

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Speaker 1: They told me that I had it. They told me

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Speaker 1: that I'm gone. I told him, don't panic. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: when I was listening to that, there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: what they're thinking about where you are right And my

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Speaker 1: question was where do you feel you are today? Let's

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Speaker 1: just get into it. I was here for you know,

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Speaker 1: I think there's a constant narrative when you're in the

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Speaker 1: public eye, there's a constant narrative about who you are,

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Speaker 1: and that ranges between people that love you, people that

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Speaker 1: hate you, people that you know have maybe heard a

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Speaker 1: song or two. And what I like to get back

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Speaker 1: to is cutting out the noise of any sort of

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Speaker 1: outside influence in terms of who I am as a person.

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Speaker 1: That when you put yourself out there, when you put

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Speaker 1: out art in any capacity, can I do it in

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Speaker 1: a way we're regardless of its success or lack thereof,

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Speaker 1: or critical acclaim or nothing at all. I know who

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Speaker 1: I am and I think that that is the most

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Speaker 1: important part about being an artist, because it's very easy

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Speaker 1: to start looking. And I was, actually I was listening

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Speaker 1: to something that you said, and you can correct me

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Speaker 1: because I will be wrong, but about seeing yourself through

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Speaker 1: how you think other people see you, and how how

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Speaker 1: false that is. And we get this very precious life,

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Speaker 1: this finite amount of time on this earth, and we

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Speaker 1: waste it wondering what other people think of us, and

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Speaker 1: also inheriting how we believe that they might be seeing.

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Speaker 1: And it's a waste of time. And I got to

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Speaker 1: a point years ago, and granted this is a daily

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Speaker 1: process to like completely shed this, so I have by

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Speaker 1: no means a rise, but I stopped reading what people

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Speaker 1: were writing, I stopped reading reviews, and I make art

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Speaker 1: because I love it. And when you do that and

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Speaker 1: you come from a pure, genuine place, that is where

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Speaker 1: happiness lies and fulfillment lies in the creative process. So

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Speaker 1: that's what I'm getting to with those lyrics. The chant

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Speaker 1: is just getting back to the core of who I

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Speaker 1: am as a person and as an artist, regardless of

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Speaker 1: the outside. Yeah, I love that, and I love what

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Speaker 1: you're saying about how it's a daily practice. It's something

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Speaker 1: we have to recommit to, that ritual of getting back

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Speaker 1: there and blocking out the noise. I wonder when was

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Speaker 1: the first time you felt you lost that. Did you

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Speaker 1: feel you had that and then you started to lose

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Speaker 1: that at a certain point, or was it something that

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Speaker 1: you've always been able to like crosp On too, even

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Speaker 1: when it's been tough. I think that at the height

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Speaker 1: of our success, and I look back to coming off

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Speaker 1: of you know, number one, thrift Shop was number one

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Speaker 1: and hold Us was number one, all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: this music that you feel like it's yours becomes the

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Speaker 1: world and it becomes open, you know, to public interpretation,

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Speaker 1: and I think I lost it then I think that

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Speaker 1: there was a point where it wasn't just a relapse anymore.

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Speaker 1: I went back in the act of addiction. Around that

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Speaker 1: time period, I didn't know how to maneuver the success.

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Speaker 1: I had been an underground rapper forever and as long

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Speaker 1: as like that, like you know, my entire careers just

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Speaker 1: like this, And then all of a sudden there was

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Speaker 1: this skyrocket moment. And when that skyrocket moment happened, and

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Speaker 1: you're at the mercy of the critics and the think

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Speaker 1: pieces and like the people that are out there just

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Speaker 1: to right scathing reviews or whatever, I lost it and

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Speaker 1: when and I compounded that by then turning to drugs

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Speaker 1: to escape it. Right, Like, there's no escaping that. There's

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Speaker 1: figuring out healthy ways to cope or even better to

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Speaker 1: heal or to you know, tune it out. But I

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Speaker 1: tried to put drugs on top of that to escape,

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Speaker 1: which made it that much worse. And for me, you know,

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Speaker 1: with my history of addiction, it is a progressive disease.

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Speaker 1: So I'm putting drugs on top of it. And I

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Speaker 1: turned to a place of fear. And I think that

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Speaker 1: that fear really was a paralyzing force in that time

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Speaker 1: period where I was scared. I didn't know how to

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Speaker 1: deal with the outside world. Yeah, so around that time

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Speaker 1: kind of and it's crazy because it happened at the

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Speaker 1: height of the success, right, So I had on one

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Speaker 1: side all these you know, awards and acclaim and millions

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Speaker 1: of people in millions of dollars and all this money

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Speaker 1: and all these things that in society's eyes, that's what

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Speaker 1: you're working towards. And on the other side, I had

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Speaker 1: completely lost track of who I was and the things

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Speaker 1: that actually really added. And when did drugs first come

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Speaker 1: into your life? Like when was your first connection with that?

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Speaker 1: Because you talk about your history of addiction, but I'm

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Speaker 1: intrigued by that. I feel like we always talk and

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Speaker 1: I do want to talk about recovery, but I feel

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Speaker 1: like it's really interesting watching like when we as young

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Speaker 1: people or as adults, get involved with anything of this

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Speaker 1: sort to then go back the other way. So when

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Speaker 1: was your first kind of foray into that space. The

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Speaker 1: first time that I ever drank alcohol, and I consider

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Speaker 1: alcohol a drug, I was fourteen years old and my

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Speaker 1: parents drank and I had a liquor cabinet at my

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Speaker 1: house above the fridge, and I went into that liquor

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Speaker 1: cabinet and I took one shot at vodka. I was

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Speaker 1: fourteen years old, and I had on my undershirt, I

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Speaker 1: had Tupac in the background. I poured one shot. I

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Speaker 1: took the shot, and I was like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: I love the way that I feel right now, Like

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Speaker 1: I finally am turning this off. I took two more.

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Speaker 1: I wonder what three feels like? Another one, wonder what four?

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Speaker 1: I ended up. I probably weighed one hundred and thirty

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Speaker 1: pounds and I took twelve shots of vodka in maybe

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Speaker 1: a thirty minute time period, and you know, ended up stumbling.

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Speaker 1: I got on the bus to go downtown Seattle. I

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Speaker 1: ended up throwing up all over myself and then McDonald's

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Speaker 1: the cops came. I had to run from the cops.

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Speaker 1: That was the beginning of my drinking career, which turned

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Speaker 1: out to be a very painful one in the moment

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Speaker 1: and in hindsight. And yeah, you know, drugs came along

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Speaker 1: with that marijuana, and you know, some pills and a

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Speaker 1: bunch of other things. But you know, that was the

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Speaker 1: beginning of a very unhealthy relationship from the very jump.

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Speaker 1: And for different people it's different things like For some

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Speaker 1: people it's confidence. For some people, it's sounds like numbing

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Speaker 1: the noise, like switching this off. You said, was that

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Speaker 1: the goal was that the intention? Like what where was

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Speaker 1: that coming from? And where did it escalate to? Like

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Speaker 1: what was the reasoning behind it? For you? The easiest

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Speaker 1: way for me to describe it is that it was

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Speaker 1: like an allergy. It was once I had a sip

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Speaker 1: or a hit or a sniff or whatever it was,

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Speaker 1: I wanted more and I couldn't turn that off and

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Speaker 1: I never could. It was like from the very first

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Speaker 1: time I didn't take two shots and say, you know what,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to get busted by my parents, like

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Speaker 1: I'm done. This is like I took one and went

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Speaker 1: to twelve in a really short period of time. And

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Speaker 1: the longer that I've been in recovery and examining my

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Speaker 1: own life and maybe what led me to that point,

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Speaker 1: because I mean, maybe, you know, I don't know what

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Speaker 1: the science is in terms of genetics are being predisposed.

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Speaker 1: I had some things that happened at an early age

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Speaker 1: that I think I wanted to turn off. And it

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Speaker 1: wasn't until relatively recently that I've kind of examined those

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Speaker 1: and seeing other men in the recovery community open up

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Speaker 1: about sexual trauma from an early age and be open

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Speaker 1: and willing to talk about things that happened to them,

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Speaker 1: things that like definitely growing up I never heard about,

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Speaker 1: and up until relatively recently finding a community of men

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Speaker 1: in recovery, I never heard people talk about openly and meetings.

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Speaker 1: So I'm like, maybe that was the reason why I

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Speaker 1: don't know exactly. Yeah, yeah, no, that's that's fair. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think it's always a collection of things rather than

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Speaker 1: being one thing. But when you're talking about recovery now

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Speaker 1: and you know, congratulations on just you know, an incredible

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Speaker 1: journey to recovery, when when it was at its lowest point,

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Speaker 1: which sounds like it was when you were at your

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Speaker 1: highest point externally, you're at your lowest point internally. And

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Speaker 1: it's it's actually not as surprising like that happens so often,

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Speaker 1: Like you hear that so often, that people had their

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Speaker 1: best moments externally and their worst moments internally. What was

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Speaker 1: it that did give you reassurance or redirection to say

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Speaker 1: I want to find a way out, because I can

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Speaker 1: imagine that's so dark, and anyone who's listening and watching.

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Speaker 1: Maybe they have a family member who's in that position,

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Speaker 1: or maybe they have a loved one, or maybe they're

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Speaker 1: in that position themselves and they're listening to us right

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Speaker 1: now and feel like but it is so dark, it

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Speaker 1: is so hard. It is such a strong addiction that

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Speaker 1: it always looks easy on the other side from the outside,

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Speaker 1: but the person who's been through it knows what it's taken.

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Speaker 1: What was it at that low point, that dark point,

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Speaker 1: that you said, no, I see another side to this

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Speaker 1: life in death. What do I choose? It came down

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Speaker 1: to that, and I knew the truth. I had been

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Speaker 1: lucky enough that I had already been to rehab. I

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Speaker 1: had already understood that this is disease of addiction. This

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Speaker 1: is an uncurable disease. This is something that I don't

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Speaker 1: graduate from. This is something that I don't go into

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Speaker 1: remission like this will be with me forever and as

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Speaker 1: a daily reprieve and a daily practice, what am I

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Speaker 1: doing for my recovery? I went back to the origin,

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Speaker 1: the roots of what wrote the music that ended up

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Speaker 1: being the Heights that ended up getting all the awards

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Speaker 1: and all the love and all of that. I went

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Speaker 1: back to that place of okay, where were you when

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Speaker 1: you felt fulfilled? And what did you have? And I

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Speaker 1: had a home group where I went, and I had

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Speaker 1: a service position, and I made coffee for a bunch

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Speaker 1: of other alcoholics and addicts. And on Tuesdays, in order

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Speaker 1: for the meeting to happen, I needed to show up

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Speaker 1: an hour early and put out the shares in the meeting,

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Speaker 1: and I needed to make the coffee. And the coffee

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Speaker 1: was trash. It was horrible, but I needed to do it.

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Speaker 1: And I had that accountability, I had that sense of community.

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Speaker 1: I didn't feel alone. I felt something that I think

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Speaker 1: all human beings want, which is to feel a part

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Speaker 1: of And the disease of addiction leads you to isolation,

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Speaker 1: at least for a lot of us. You know, right

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Speaker 1: before I went to treatment, I would you know, the

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Speaker 1: only person I would pick up the phone for a

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Speaker 1: call was the drug dealer. The blinds were drawn. I

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Speaker 1: was in a super dark place. Now, granted, after the

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Speaker 1: height of everything, I couldn't hide. I couldn't hide from

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Speaker 1: the world. I had a full calendar. I just wore

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Speaker 1: sunglasses inside and kept going. But I remember my wife

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Speaker 1: and I and it was after the Grammys and my

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Speaker 1: wife and I we went to India, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I was actually detoxing from drugs during the Grammys, Like

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Speaker 1: I was, like, you know, maybe three or four days

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Speaker 1: off of opiates and definitely was not out of my

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Speaker 1: system whatsoever. So that place of fear was very still there.

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Speaker 1: And I never talked about this before. And I remember

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Speaker 1: winning the four Grammys and at the after party got

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Speaker 1: a pill from somebody again at the after party, and

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Speaker 1: that was the beginning of another attempt to escape everything

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Speaker 1: that was happening. My wife and I went to India,

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Speaker 1: and I really detoxed and realized that I needed to

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Speaker 1: find my community again, that all of this other external

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Speaker 1: pats on the back, all these strangers, all these people

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Speaker 1: that are with you for the moment, but they don't

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Speaker 1: really know me. I need to find the people that

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Speaker 1: really know me, that really loved me, and the people

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Speaker 1: that share this commonality of the disease of addiction, because

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Speaker 1: those are the people that speak my same language, that

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Speaker 1: make me feel again a part of and not distant

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Speaker 1: and disconnected. And why India, what specifically about India, I'm fascinating.

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Speaker 1: It's my favorite place on Earth. There's something about this

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Speaker 1: spiritual undertone. There's something really undertone. You can just feel

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Speaker 1: it energetically moving throughout India. You know, we we were

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Speaker 1: traveling around from from Varanasi to Dharmasala to you know, Delhi,

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Speaker 1: to all over, and no one knew who I was,

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Speaker 1: no one cared. I was back to just being Ben

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Speaker 1: And there was something so simple about that in that moment.

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Speaker 1: And I think that you travel throughout India and you

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Speaker 1: see extreme, extreme poverty and people that are still happy

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Speaker 1: and fulfilled in that, and you realize that to actually

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Speaker 1: be fulfilled and happy in this world, all what we

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Speaker 1: have been taught in the Western world, that we need

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Speaker 1: these benchmarks in terms of success and square footage of

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Speaker 1: a house and what type of car, all of these

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Speaker 1: things do not lead to happiness. And I was reminded

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Speaker 1: of all of that, and I just I just love this.

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Speaker 1: I just love India. That's amazing. Was that your first

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Speaker 1: time there or you know I've been there before? You?

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Speaker 1: Oh wow, that's incredible. You obviously, I've spent so much

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Speaker 1: time in India, and that's being such a I feel

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Speaker 1: the same way as you do about it in the

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Speaker 1: sense of it's it's spiritual energy that's just emanating right constantly. Yes,

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Speaker 1: And I find it's even easier to develop spiritual practices

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Speaker 1: there and habits there and things like that. What have

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Speaker 1: become some of the habits or practices or rituals that

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Speaker 1: you feel you've formed that have aided this process of recovery.

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Speaker 1: Community seems to be a big one of them. You

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Speaker 1: keep referring to being around those people, reconnecting with who

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Speaker 1: you were before. What are some other things that you've

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Speaker 1: really worked on that you think of being pillars of

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Speaker 1: supporting you at this time? I think service is a

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Speaker 1: massive pillar in terms of getting outside of self. You know,

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Speaker 1: it talks about in some of the literature that I

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Speaker 1: that I work from, the disease of addiction is rooted

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Speaker 1: in self centeredness. And in order to get outside of self,

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Speaker 1: the quickest way to do that is to think about

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Speaker 1: other people. It's like the thing that's under all of

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Speaker 1: our noses. It's right there in plain sight, and yet

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Speaker 1: we keep going on this journey of like what do

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Speaker 1: I want right now? How can I serve myself? What

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Speaker 1: are my needs? What are my immediate families needs? But

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Speaker 1: to really actually, you know, to find like connection with

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Speaker 1: other people, it is to serve, and that's something in

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Speaker 1: the recovery community that is one of the pillars. That's

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Speaker 1: a massive part of it. And it's looking inward, it's

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Speaker 1: doing the step work. It is figuring out my character defects,

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Speaker 1: really stripping down, figuring out who I am and how

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Speaker 1: can I improve. And there's so much work to be done,

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Speaker 1: you know, I mean, and I'm at a very I've

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Speaker 1: been in and out of the room's recovery for fourteen

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Speaker 1: years now, and I relapsed at the beginning of COVID,

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Speaker 1: so I have a couple of years. But I still

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Speaker 1: feel like a newcomer. I still feel like this is

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Speaker 1: brand new and I'm just on the precipice of figuring

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Speaker 1: out something that's going to open a new door. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Service is such an underestimated habit and ritual, and hearing

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Speaker 1: you speak about it in that way is so life

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Speaker 1: giving because I think it's one of those things, as

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Speaker 1: you said, we've just completely taken out of society. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't really exist in our vocabulary, it doesn't really exist

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Speaker 1: in our recommendation to people or as an antidote to anything.

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Speaker 1: But as you're saying, in the recovery community, it seems

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Speaker 1: to be a big pillar and a big part of that.

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Speaker 1: Do you do you remember an opportunity where you got

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Speaker 1: to serve or something where you tried to do something

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Speaker 1: like that where you felt the benefits that you just described.

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Speaker 1: Was there a particular examples? I mean, I don't know

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Speaker 1: if there's a particular one that sticks out, but I think,

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Speaker 1: even to piggyback off what you were just saying in

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Speaker 1: terms of society, even with this culture of like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: now we are working on our mental health. Now, I'm

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Speaker 1: in therapy, now, I'm you know, eating healthy. Now, I'm

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00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:18,399
Speaker 1: working out, now, I'm doing bickram yoga like whatever. Like

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Speaker 1: all of those things are fantastic, right, Like, those are

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Speaker 1: all great things of the self care model that we

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Speaker 1: have now, but they can still without the balance of service.

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Speaker 1: You're still thinking about me, me, me, me me right?

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Speaker 1: Like what do I need right now? How can I

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Speaker 1: get my life? You know, I need to talk about

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Speaker 1: my trauma and all of that, And that's again fantastic.

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Speaker 1: It's still easy to be thinking about self in all

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Speaker 1: of those practices, and can you actually have all of

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Speaker 1: that and that still balance? Am I thinking and showing

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Speaker 1: up for other people? And that can be as simple as,

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Speaker 1: you know, picking up a phone call that you feel

359
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Speaker 1: like you're too busy to take. That can be as

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Speaker 1: easy as listening to a story of someone when you

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Speaker 1: feel like, you know, you're running and gunning and you're

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Speaker 1: trying to keep up with everything in life and just

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Speaker 1: slowing down and showing up for others when you don't

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Speaker 1: want to. That's the thing, is like, because services, in

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00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:23,919
Speaker 1: a way, there's still a selfish component of service, because

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Speaker 1: you are still you know, this feels good, there's something

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00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:30,040
Speaker 1: that feels good about it, but you're actually you know,

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Speaker 1: benefiting others at the same time. Yeah, And it's so counterintuitive, right,

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Speaker 1: like we constantly feel like we have to focus on

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Speaker 1: ourselves to solve things. But the studies actually back of

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Speaker 1: what you're saying as well. There's so many studies on

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Speaker 1: depression that show that even people are depressed who support

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Speaker 1: other people who are going through depression are happier than

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Speaker 1: those who are not supporting that community in search of

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Speaker 1: even about supporting that same community makes such a huge difference.

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Speaker 1: And I know that for sure in my own life.

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Speaker 1: That was the insight that saved me too, was because

378
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Speaker 1: for me, the change happened that I worked harder on

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00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:11,560
Speaker 1: myself in order to serve people better. So what you're

380
00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:13,320
Speaker 1: saying by the balance, it was like the more I

381
00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:16,399
Speaker 1: try to serve others, the more I realized that I

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00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,840
Speaker 1: needed to be purified. And so then I worked on

383
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:23,239
Speaker 1: my purification and cleansing so that I could try and

384
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Speaker 1: give back better. And again, this is a daily process.

385
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Speaker 1: I haven't arrived either, but that cycle became a really

386
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:31,480
Speaker 1: beautiful cycle. Reste, let me work on myself so I

387
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:33,439
Speaker 1: can give my best to others. Yes, now that I've

388
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,360
Speaker 1: given my best, I need to refuel and then that

389
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:39,359
Speaker 1: becomes this beautiful journey that you go on as a human.

390
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Speaker 1: And I feel like for me, I'm there today too,

391
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Speaker 1: where I'm trying to pour out into people and then

392
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,520
Speaker 1: I'm trying to pour in so that I have more

393
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:53,800
Speaker 1: purity to pour out. That's a really good observation and

394
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:58,040
Speaker 1: I think that, yeah, it is a cycle. It's a constant,

395
00:22:58,119 --> 00:22:59,919
Speaker 1: you know, evolution of like, oh my god, I'm mean

396
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 1: giving so much, Like now I need to refeel the tank,

397
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:06,760
Speaker 1: you know, the spiritual tank or whatever it is that

398
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 1: that does get depleted, and that there is this balance

399
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:13,560
Speaker 1: that needs to be found. It's much easier said than done. Yeah,

400
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,440
Speaker 1: of course absolutely. How have your lyrics and music changed

401
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,119
Speaker 1: at that time, because I feel like, you know, a

402
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:22,840
Speaker 1: lot of musicians feel they often write their best stuff

403
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,760
Speaker 1: in the worst times, in the darkest times, because it's raw,

404
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:29,360
Speaker 1: it's real, like you can connect to people's emotions, and

405
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 1: people also feel that way, so they can see themselves

406
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,359
Speaker 1: in your music. Right. How have you felt as you

407
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:38,160
Speaker 1: observe your music evolving and with the two new singles

408
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:41,840
Speaker 1: like that, has that impacted the music or do you

409
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:45,280
Speaker 1: feel you're writing from a place of always working on

410
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,159
Speaker 1: yourself and that's what connects with people. I think that

411
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,159
Speaker 1: I'm always working on myself, you know. I was, you know,

412
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Speaker 1: just in the coffee shop an hour, hour and a

413
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Speaker 1: half ago, and I get the coffee and I go

414
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,200
Speaker 1: the bathroom and I'm like, you know, I just felt

415
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:02,639
Speaker 1: this wave of depression. And I'm like, huh, Like, where

416
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,960
Speaker 1: where is that coming from? I didn't find an answer.

417
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:10,640
Speaker 1: The darkness is always there. I don't have clinical depression

418
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 1: by any means. I'm you know, someone that I would

419
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:15,159
Speaker 1: like to think is like relatively happy, but I do

420
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:18,240
Speaker 1: go through lows. I'm a human I'm going through this,

421
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:23,200
Speaker 1: this spiritual experience and this human form. But I felt

422
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 1: this wave and I was like, I wonder if if

423
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 1: Jay ever feels this wave of depression, which I do

424
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 1: want to hear if you do. But like, but I

425
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 1: also had this this thought of like, you know, this

426
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:38,119
Speaker 1: is what creates art. Right If we were always just

427
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 1: like this, or if it was just kept going up

428
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 1: and it just got better and better until we died

429
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,719
Speaker 1: and then we're out here, it wouldn't be interesting. Like

430
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 1: I need to feel those, you know, moments of elation

431
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 1: and translate that to music. I need to feel those

432
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:55,960
Speaker 1: moments of darkness. Uh. You know, sometimes it's self inflicted.

433
00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's just that way that you don't know where

434
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,640
Speaker 1: it's coming from. But it's like this blanket of darkness

435
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:03,720
Speaker 1: over you and you're like, man, I gotta fight through

436
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 1: this right now. But it all makes great music. Yeah,

437
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:10,720
Speaker 1: it all makes great art if you channel it. Yeah,

438
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 1: but do you feel that? Yeah? I think I want

439
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:15,720
Speaker 1: to answer your question. There's some things I can relate

440
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:17,920
Speaker 1: to When I was in my teens and I first

441
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:21,640
Speaker 1: started hearing about depression, and that time, it wasn't the

442
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,359
Speaker 1: norm to talk about those things like today, as you said,

443
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,679
Speaker 1: we're trying to talk more about these things. But when

444
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:29,120
Speaker 1: I was in my teens and I first heard someone

445
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 1: was depressed, in my head, I was like, how can

446
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:32,720
Speaker 1: you be depressed? You have everything? Like that was I

447
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,159
Speaker 1: was one of those people who looked at a friend

448
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,520
Speaker 1: who seemed like they had it all together and couldn't

449
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 1: fathom or understand how they could be depressed. Right. It

450
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 1: was like you make good money or you know you

451
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 1: you you have a good situation. You know, you're a

452
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:49,879
Speaker 1: good looking dude, Like what what's what's your what's your?

453
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 1: You get women like I had that very basically as

454
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:58,159
Speaker 1: a teenager, and then I felt it for the first

455
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 1: time when I left the monastery. So I lived as

456
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 1: a monk for three years, majority of it in India,

457
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:07,200
Speaker 1: and when I left, that's the first time I felt depressed.

458
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 1: And I was around twenty five going on twenty six,

459
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:12,199
Speaker 1: and that was the first time it hit me in

460
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:14,199
Speaker 1: my entire life. And that was because I had a

461
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 1: plan and I had a direction I was going in

462
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:20,479
Speaker 1: and it didn't work out, and all of a sudden,

463
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:22,679
Speaker 1: I wouldn't even say a wave, I would say a

464
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 1: very strong sense of depression and I didn't even let

465
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 1: myself admit it to myself at the time because I

466
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 1: was so scared about what would happen if I admitted it.

467
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 1: And so if you asked me during that time, I

468
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 1: would have said I'm fine. And it was only years

469
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 1: later that I was able to locate and say, actually,

470
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 1: I was depressed during that time. I just was scared

471
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 1: to even say it out loud because I didn't know

472
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,720
Speaker 1: who to say it too. And it was then where

473
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 1: my monk skills and tools that I'd learned actually came

474
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 1: to help me and give me that direction. Now today,

475
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:58,159
Speaker 1: that was nearly ten years ago since I left, so

476
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 1: it's been a long time, and i'd say today that

477
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 1: I get sad thoughts, I get depressive thoughts. But it's

478
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 1: two things. One is they don't last as long anymore

479
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:13,679
Speaker 1: because I've found a process in tools of what to

480
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: do with them. And the second thing is I see

481
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 1: them as useful, as you said, as insight into what

482
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,920
Speaker 1: can be changed, transformed, grown, what work needs to happen.

483
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 1: So now they're not things I try and avoid or

484
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 1: things I'm saying are bad or labeling them as negative.

485
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:32,800
Speaker 1: I accept that as a human you will always have thoughts,

486
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 1: but it's your choice what you want to do with them.

487
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,639
Speaker 1: And I've now learned skills and tools that allow me

488
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,160
Speaker 1: to process them differently than I would have ten years ago.

489
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 1: And so it's not that you will never I don't

490
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 1: think there's anyone in the world who could never have

491
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:50,639
Speaker 1: a negative thought or a tough thought, or a difficult thought,

492
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 1: because the world is put in such a way that

493
00:27:54,800 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 1: there's constantly conflict, there's constantly uncertainty. So unless you're numb

494
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 1: from it all, there's going to be something that gets

495
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,679
Speaker 1: beneath your skin or something that gets into you. But

496
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 1: it's what you do with that. It's kind of like

497
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 1: saying wishing for a day where it stops raining and

498
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 1: stops being cold. It's like, that's never gonna happen. The

499
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 1: weather's going to be the weather. It's gonna rain, it's

500
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 1: gonna get cold, it's gonna snow, and you either have

501
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 1: your umbrella and your snow boots ready to go, or

502
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 1: you're going to be cold and wet. And so I

503
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 1: think for me, it's like I'm focusing on what's my umbrella,

504
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:31,399
Speaker 1: what's my snow boots, what's my raincoat? You know, what

505
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 1: are those tools and habits and practices that help me

506
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 1: through that? Does that make sense? So? Yeah, I'd be

507
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 1: lying if I said I don't have sad thoughts or

508
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 1: and I think we have to get out of that

509
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 1: because I think we all deep down believe that we

510
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 1: will one day get to a place where you don't

511
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 1: feel that way, and that kind of I feel stops

512
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 1: us from getting there. I don't know if you've ever

513
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 1: sensed that. Yeah, you kind of think about getting over something.

514
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 1: We both talked a lot about getting through stuff, yes,

515
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 1: and with it. But I feel like in society we

516
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 1: have this idea of you, you're an addict and now

517
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 1: you've recovered, right, And you said I'm in recovery, and yes,

518
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 1: I'm guessing that's language that lost yes completely. Yeah, it's

519
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 1: interesting you said that because I the first time that

520
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 1: I went to India, I was nineteen years old, and

521
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 1: I did a three days silent meditation and on the

522
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 1: third day, I remember like I couldn't meditate. I never

523
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 1: had really meditated. I'm trying to calm the mind, follow

524
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 1: the breadth. I have no idea what I'm doing. I'm like,

525
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 1: this is never gonna work for me. On the third day,

526
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 1: I was like up in the hills, I was looking

527
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 1: out over you know, a mountainous terrain, and you know,

528
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 1: I'm watching the trees and I'm closing my eyes and

529
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 1: the trees are still, and you know, I'm seeing it

530
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 1: through my eyelids, and the breeze came through, and I

531
00:29:55,240 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 1: had this moment of meditation where I I didn't have

532
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 1: any thoughts, you know, or whatever version that was. I

533
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 1: thought that I was having this experience and and I

534
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 1: felt this wave of just like this warm piece that sustained,

535
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 1: whether it was three or ten seconds or whatever. And

536
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 1: it was this contentment that I don't know that I'd

537
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 1: ever really felt. And it was interrupted with the thought

538
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 1: of but you're gonna lose this, but you're gonna go back.

539
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 1: And I think that there was a part of that

540
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 1: was like, but you're going to go back to drugs,

541
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 1: but you're going to go back to depression. But you'll

542
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 1: never be able to sustain this. And part of I

543
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 1: think what the compulsion around using for me is is like,

544
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 1: you know, you get that moment of ah, you know,

545
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 1: like I've turned off the thoughts or like you know,

546
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 1: the drink hits or the drug hits and now I'm

547
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 1: you know, a quantumius in my in my you know, being,

548
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 1: and you know, I feel I'm high. I like the

549
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 1: effects of this drug. And then you go down and

550
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 1: then you're trying to find that high again when really,

551
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 1: for me, what I've experienced is the most sustained period

552
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 1: of happiness that can be achieved is through a practice

553
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 1: of clearing the mind. Now do I meditate presently? Not

554
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 1: at all, Not at all. As I'm saying all of this,

555
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 1: I'm like, bro, why why aren't you meditating? Man? You

556
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 1: got to get back. But yeah, I just you know,

557
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 1: I remember that feeling of peace and immediately being like,

558
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 1: but you're not going to be able to hold on

559
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 1: to this. It's a lack of a practice. Yeah, And

560
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 1: that's that challenge, right, It's like constantly wanting to hold

561
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 1: onto anything, yeah, and constantly want to go back to anything.

562
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 1: Both of those thoughts, I think is what I'm referring to,

563
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 1: And it seems like we're aligned. It's that. Yeah, I

564
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 1: feel like those are the two thoughts that actually keep

565
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 1: us the most trapped completely. So I want to hold

566
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 1: on to this and I want to go back to that,

567
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 1: and those two things keep you trapped forever and ever

568
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 1: and ever, because now you can't experience, and you can't precept,

569
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 1: and you can't be yep, and and it takes you everywhere.

570
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 1: And you know, towards more of the beginning you were

571
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 1: talking about, you're like, you know, life and death like

572
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 1: that's you've had near death experiences. Yeah, and that's one

573
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 1: of the most challenging emotions and obviously no one ever

574
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 1: wants to go back to feeling that way. To talk

575
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 1: us through that of having a near death experience and

576
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 1: how that impacts you when you reflect on something like that,

577
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 1: the near death experiences, they're not linear in terms of

578
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 1: the um you know, I kept going down, down, down, down.

579
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 1: It was rock bottom and then I almost died. It

580
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 1: wasn't that necessarily, you know it, can you know, just

581
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 1: be like, yes, I wasn't in a great place. I

582
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 1: was in active addiction and I use this drug and

583
00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 1: that drug, and I ended up in the hospital and

584
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 1: my heart was beating out of my chest that type

585
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 1: of thing. But I think of this moment where I

586
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 1: was withdrawing off of oxycotton. I was just crying. I

587
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 1: was crying. I was in the middle of the street.

588
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 1: It was summertime in Seattle, which is like the most

589
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 1: beautiful place in the world. I'm biased, but it was

590
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 1: most It's the most beautiful place in the world in

591
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 1: the summertime. And I'm there and I can't stop crying,

592
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 1: and I see no future for happiness. All my serotonin

593
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 1: was completely depleted. I was reliant on this drug for

594
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 1: any sort of crane to pull me out of a

595
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 1: place of wanting to die. And I think that these

596
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 1: near death experiences, yes, I have had actual like you know,

597
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 1: you were close moments and you know, ended up in

598
00:33:55,480 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 1: the hospital moments close to you know, death. But even

599
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 1: more scary than those are those moments where you don't care.

600
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:08,959
Speaker 1: It can even go a step further than you don't care,

601
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 1: it goes to a place that I don't want to

602
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:16,400
Speaker 1: be here. Those are super, super scary in hindsight. In

603
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:20,399
Speaker 1: the moment, it's like take me, well, yeah, take me.

604
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 1: I'm not fighting anymore. I'm not fighting for life anymore.

605
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:28,840
Speaker 1: I've gone down the trail deep enough into the forest

606
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:33,439
Speaker 1: of this that I am fine to just leave this

607
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 1: physical space. That's scary. Yeah, it definitely is. You're reminding

608
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:41,360
Speaker 1: me of I had a conversation with Dennis Rodman like

609
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:46,399
Speaker 1: three years ago now on the podcast, and I asked

610
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 1: him what his purpose in life was and he said

611
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 1: to survive another day, like to live another day. And

612
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:54,359
Speaker 1: to have someone say that in front of you, like

613
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:57,360
Speaker 1: in an interview, I was like, it really took me

614
00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 1: aback because you're not expecting that that much honesty, but

615
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 1: but in that moment, that much. Yeah, you know, vulnerability

616
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 1: as well. And I know he's surrounded by a good

617
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:10,759
Speaker 1: group of people who are supporting him and helping him,

618
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:14,880
Speaker 1: but it was scary even to experience. And you know,

619
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 1: you've had your partner, your wife's who's been such a

620
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:21,280
Speaker 1: big part of your journey. You know, you've you've spoken

621
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 1: about her music like she's been such a supporting figure.

622
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 1: Obviously she loves you, that's that's without a doubt, and

623
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 1: you love her. But what do you think has allowed

624
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 1: her to be a supportive and helpful partner during this time?

625
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 1: And how have you tried to help her help you?

626
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 1: Sometimes you may have got it wrong sometimes, you know,

627
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 1: but tell me a bit about what she's done exceptionally well.

628
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 1: And then when you've helped her help you in an

629
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:52,959
Speaker 1: exceptional way. But then sometimes when maybe you haven't helped

630
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 1: the situation. Yeah, that's a good question. You know, my

631
00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 1: wife is a is amazing. She's a big fan of

632
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 1: of you. She's super excited. She did today. She's she's

633
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:07,720
Speaker 1: not she's she's directing a music video actually, so she's

634
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 1: in the midst of planning for that. Love. I definitely

635
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:13,400
Speaker 1: send a gift. We'll have to send something with you

636
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 1: for Yeah, she's she's a massive fan. So, um, it's

637
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 1: cool to talk about her. She's um. Yeah, she's my

638
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 1: best friend. She's amazing. She um, I think first and foremost.

639
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 1: You know, I was in I was in rehab in

640
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:30,319
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight, and I had been with her

641
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,879
Speaker 1: for you know, since two thousand and six. So we're,

642
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 1: you know, a couple of years into a relationship, and

643
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,360
Speaker 1: she was supposed to come up and visit me in

644
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:44,320
Speaker 1: rehab and all the families show up, you know, the

645
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 1: commencement of group therapy starts. My at the time girlfriend

646
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 1: wasn't there, and she had ended up getting arrested on

647
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 1: the way up. She was still drunk from the night before.

648
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 1: After at she never went to treatment. She did some

649
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 1: some twelve step work, but she has never used since

650
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:10,799
Speaker 1: and she was definitely, you know, one of us, like

651
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 1: one of me, an addict and an alcoholic, and I

652
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,799
Speaker 1: never had that off switch. But the way that she

653
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 1: has shown up for me is that she has stayed

654
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 1: clean and for herself first and foremost foundational level. And

655
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:30,759
Speaker 1: we just celebrated last Friday her fourteen years of sobriety,

656
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 1: and I got to watch her take her take her coin,

657
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:36,359
Speaker 1: go up to the front of the meeting in front

658
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 1: of you know, one hundred people and take her coin,

659
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 1: and she's all nervous, and you know, I have tears

660
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:43,280
Speaker 1: in my eyes, and I'm just like, this is my person.

661
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:47,759
Speaker 1: I'm rooting for her more than anything to be clean

662
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 1: and to be healthy. And it's something and she has

663
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:51,799
Speaker 1: done something that I haven't been able to do, which

664
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:57,920
Speaker 1: is continuously stay clean. And it's a complex question, you know,

665
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:02,200
Speaker 1: like how do I help her or help me? The

666
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:04,440
Speaker 1: one thing about the disease of addiction is that it

667
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 1: is insidious, and that when I am an active addiction,

668
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:10,720
Speaker 1: it starts before I actually pick up the first drink

669
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 1: or drug. It starts slowly, and it creeps and it

670
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:19,880
Speaker 1: escalates and it starts telling me, you know what, no

671
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:23,399
Speaker 1: one's around no one's gonna know you can do that.

672
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:25,799
Speaker 1: All of a sudden, I'm in self will. I'm not

673
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:28,160
Speaker 1: in God's will anymore. I'm in self will. What do

674
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:31,840
Speaker 1: I want? And that selfishness rises and rises and rises,

675
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 1: and it can start with simple things, you know, just

676
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:40,440
Speaker 1: like you deserve that, like go ahead, buy that omit

677
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 1: that these little ways that it just starts creeping, creeping, creeping,

678
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 1: getting louder, and for me, all of a sudden, it

679
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 1: leads me to this place of none of that works,

680
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:54,880
Speaker 1: Like material possession to feel happy does not work for me,

681
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 1: you know, like go ahead, get another watch, go ahead,

682
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 1: get that jacket, get those shoes. Do that have that experience?

683
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:05,239
Speaker 1: You deserve it? It doesn't spiritually fulfill me. So now

684
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 1: I'm like I'm on empty and the spiritual tank and

685
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 1: I'm reaching for anything. Come on, more and more and more?

686
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:12,880
Speaker 1: How do I fulfill? How do I feel this void?

687
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:16,880
Speaker 1: This God's eyes hoolew? What do I do with this?

688
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:21,840
Speaker 1: And eventually I start to think a drink or a

689
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 1: drug sounds like the best idea because I hate myself now,

690
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:30,240
Speaker 1: how can I help my wife? Help me? In those moments,

691
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 1: It's counterintuitive because when I'm an active addiction in the

692
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:36,440
Speaker 1: disease is talking to me. I don't want to tell anybody.

693
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 1: The disease is like, don't tell her, No, she doesn't care.

694
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 1: You know, the lies, the lies that I'm telling to

695
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 1: myself in order to act out, are getting increasingly loud.

696
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:52,839
Speaker 1: It's a very you know, I probably sound crazy right now,

697
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:56,279
Speaker 1: but it's um educated. That's how the disease works for me.

698
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 1: And I think, unless you have the disease, and maybe

699
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 1: it sounds crazy, that's actually the narrative that's slowly happening,

700
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:06,359
Speaker 1: whether I'm conscious or unconscious in my head, to get

701
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:10,239
Speaker 1: me to the point of hating myself enough that a

702
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 1: drink or a drug sounds like the best solution. So

703
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:16,920
Speaker 1: I have to tell her. I have to be honest.

704
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:19,200
Speaker 1: And she has seen enough relapses at this point that

705
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 1: she's like, dude, what are you doing. You're in self

706
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 1: will right now? Where When was the last time that

707
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 1: you call your sponsor? When have you got outside of self?

708
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:31,239
Speaker 1: When have you done something in your recovery community? Why

709
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:33,880
Speaker 1: don't you go to a meeting? She holds me accountable

710
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:36,800
Speaker 1: even when I don't want to be held accountable, and

711
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 1: usually I can tell because she she'll say something, and

712
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:44,480
Speaker 1: if I'm naturally defensive, if I'm like, no, you don't

713
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 1: know what I'm doing, you know, usually I'm like, Okay,

714
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:51,759
Speaker 1: she's got she's got a pulse, she knows me very well,

715
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:54,759
Speaker 1: and she's trying to help you, dude. Like you know,

716
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 1: if she says sometimes she can mis misread the room,

717
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:01,399
Speaker 1: and I can come completely hold that space and listen

718
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 1: to them and be like I understand that I could

719
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 1: be doing better and these categories, but I'm actually feeling

720
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:11,240
Speaker 1: pretty good right now, and I welcome that from people

721
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 1: in my life. Like I think part of addiction is

722
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:19,919
Speaker 1: that it's it has to be secret. You know, even

723
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,839
Speaker 1: you talk about ten years ago with like you know,

724
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:25,480
Speaker 1: this depression that you're like, I feel like I had

725
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 1: to be okay, I had to be fine. I had

726
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:30,880
Speaker 1: to tell people I was fine. And there's this secrecy

727
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 1: with addiction that we can't talk about it that when

728
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:37,279
Speaker 1: those thoughts come in or in recovery and I'm like,

729
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 1: I'm a person in recovery, I have to be like,

730
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 1: you know, holding up these pillars. And now I'm a

731
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:44,399
Speaker 1: public figure in recovery and I need to be It's

732
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:48,399
Speaker 1: like dude, I am still I am just like everyone else,

733
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:51,719
Speaker 1: completely fallible and so far from who I want to be.

734
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 1: But the more people that I can talk about, that

735
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:58,239
Speaker 1: I can talk to where I'm not a secret, that

736
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 1: is when I share my truth and it opens up

737
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:03,799
Speaker 1: a platform for other people too, or when they share

738
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 1: their truth, all of a sudden, I feel comfortable in

739
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 1: the space to tell mine the disease dissipates. And by

740
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 1: the way, you don't in your words, don't sound crazy

741
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 1: at all. Actually, I feel like you're educating us and

742
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:19,280
Speaker 1: enlightening us on what's going on inside. And so actually

743
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 1: I'm learning a lot, and I appreciate it a lot,

744
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:25,960
Speaker 1: because I don't think we we only watch these if

745
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:27,480
Speaker 1: it doesn't happen to us. You only watch it from

746
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:29,960
Speaker 1: the outside, right, and you have no idea what the

747
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:34,520
Speaker 1: dialogue in someone's mind is. And so hearing what dialogue

748
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 1: you've had in your mind is massively illuminating, because like

749
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 1: you referred to mine, I agree with that on so

750
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 1: many levels. And that's that wasn't even addiction. That was

751
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 1: that was a form of depression that I was experiencing

752
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:51,600
Speaker 1: and couldn't vocalize it, what to speak of something when

753
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:54,920
Speaker 1: you going through addiction. And I couldn't agree with you

754
00:42:55,000 --> 00:43:01,000
Speaker 1: more that whether it's something tiny or whether it's something huge,

755
00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 1: if we don't talk about it, you actually never learned,

756
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:08,360
Speaker 1: like I had a very non life threatening surgery recently,

757
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:12,000
Speaker 1: Like it's pretty routine, it's inconvenient, but it's not like

758
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 1: you know, it's not I'm not gonna, you know, die

759
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:16,400
Speaker 1: from it, Like that's not what kind of surgery it is.

760
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 1: And me even just telling some of my friends about that,

761
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:20,920
Speaker 1: I found out a quarter of my friends have had

762
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:23,120
Speaker 1: that surgery but never told me, Like no one ever

763
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:25,280
Speaker 1: talks about it, and I know it's not a big deal,

764
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:27,759
Speaker 1: But the point is that knowing that they'd had it,

765
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:29,520
Speaker 1: and knowing that they've been through the surgery and knowing

766
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 1: that they'd recovered, or knowing where they'd had struggles was

767
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 1: useful what to speak of addiction or something that's far

768
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:40,520
Speaker 1: more detrimental to your health and well being. You know,

769
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:43,000
Speaker 1: I can totally understand why being able to share that,

770
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 1: And I really love the point you're making about and

771
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 1: this is partly societal and ourselves, is you just explained

772
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:55,279
Speaker 1: a lot of roles like I'm a public figure in recovery.

773
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:58,720
Speaker 1: I'm a I'm a this in this, I'm a music

774
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 1: artist who was addicted. So we create all these titles

775
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:06,880
Speaker 1: and roles and designation that are not the real us,

776
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:10,799
Speaker 1: and society forces us to play them, and we forced it.

777
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:13,280
Speaker 1: There was a lyric that I love. This is probably

778
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:16,239
Speaker 1: one of my favorite songs that you've done. I was

779
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:21,359
Speaker 1: talking to my I have a meditation program that I've

780
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 1: created for Calm, and we were just there recording before this,

781
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:27,440
Speaker 1: and so we am recording for like four hours, just

782
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 1: teaching meditations, and I was speaking to my producer I'm

783
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:33,919
Speaker 1: really good friends with. His name is Ben Too, saying

784
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 1: that you were coming on the show. He loves Rap

785
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 1: two and so I was showing that you were coming on.

786
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 1: And we've then started talking about some of our favorite songs.

787
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:41,279
Speaker 1: So he was saying this one was his, and I

788
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:43,920
Speaker 1: was like, oh, me too. It's a light tunnels And

789
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:46,920
Speaker 1: there was this lyric that I thought it was really

790
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 1: powerful for what we're talking about right now. You'd say

791
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:51,879
Speaker 1: they want the gossip, they want the drama. They want

792
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:54,440
Speaker 1: Britney Spears to make out with Madonna. They want Kanye

793
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 1: to rant and go on longer, because that equates to

794
00:44:57,160 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 1: more dollars. They want talking topics, they want trend topics,

795
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:04,439
Speaker 1: you know, etcetera, etcetera, And so you know, it's it's

796
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:07,759
Speaker 1: that idea that we're trying to create. Society is trying

797
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:11,839
Speaker 1: to create these identities for us, and then we kind

798
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:14,759
Speaker 1: of try and live up to those identities. How do

799
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 1: you in this moment disconnect from that and go well, actually, yes,

800
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:21,799
Speaker 1: people may say I'm a public figure going through recovery,

801
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 1: I'm a music artist doing this. How have you found

802
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:29,359
Speaker 1: a way over time to not subscribe to that identity

803
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 1: and be like, no, I'm Ben, I'm you know, who

804
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:35,239
Speaker 1: who are you today? Like? How do you create that disconnect?

805
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:41,520
Speaker 1: Things that help my kids getting off of social media again,

806
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 1: not to be redundant, but my community and recovery. I

807
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:49,240
Speaker 1: think we're all trying to get back to that place,

808
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:52,239
Speaker 1: whether you're in the public you know, space or not.

809
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 1: It's it's the idea of who am I really at

810
00:45:56,600 --> 00:46:04,320
Speaker 1: the core? And I've always used art as a medium

811
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:07,160
Speaker 1: to find out my own truth and to find out

812
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 1: who I am as a person. But it's all the

813
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 1: things that we're kind of discussing. It's like and that

814
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:16,040
Speaker 1: you were talking about in terms of service too, like

815
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:18,719
Speaker 1: you know, doing your own work and then putting it

816
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:20,960
Speaker 1: back and then going back and forth in this cycle.

817
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:24,000
Speaker 1: I think it's getting exercise. I think it's clearing the mind.

818
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:26,600
Speaker 1: I think that it's picking up the phone. I think

819
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 1: that it's like I think it's these small little acts

820
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 1: throughout the course of a day that you realize that

821
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 1: all of this is so fleading and then that it's

822
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:40,799
Speaker 1: not real. It's not all of that world that's in

823
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:43,920
Speaker 1: light tunnels that we're speaking about. It's as real as

824
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:48,080
Speaker 1: we make it. And I think that it's really challenging

825
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 1: to divorce yourself from media when you are a part

826
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:55,319
Speaker 1: of the media, when you are a part of a

827
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 1: topic or you know, you can I could throw out

828
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:01,759
Speaker 1: ten celebrities names and like the first you know, you'll

829
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:06,080
Speaker 1: have thoughts and judgments right away when you hear someone's name.

830
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:10,400
Speaker 1: And we've put people, we've compartmentalized people, we put them

831
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:13,400
Speaker 1: into boxes. We don't really get to know who they are.

832
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 1: And I think that that's why long form podcasts or

833
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:23,080
Speaker 1: you know, conversations are have helped to kind of reshape

834
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 1: how we view certain people and are actually really beneficial

835
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:32,759
Speaker 1: to get to know individuals outside of a headline. Now

836
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:36,839
Speaker 1: the unfortunate part is and also for how short our

837
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:41,480
Speaker 1: attention spans are. And now you know we you know,

838
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:46,279
Speaker 1: five second increments, fifteen second increments were scrolling. We're moving on.

839
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:50,919
Speaker 1: We can't retain information, We're on to the next. It's

840
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:54,319
Speaker 1: really dope to see that. Like long form podcast, there's

841
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:57,880
Speaker 1: a lane for this where either it's super fast or

842
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:00,680
Speaker 1: like I'm gonna listen to Joe Rogan for three hours,

843
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 1: you know what I mean and like And I think

844
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:07,919
Speaker 1: that that's because people are longing for something deeper. They

845
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:15,000
Speaker 1: want to hear conversation. They want to see the evolution

846
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 1: of dialogue start here and go here, you know, like

847
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:24,320
Speaker 1: that is what actually is real. We are not We

848
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:28,319
Speaker 1: are not creatures that operate in in three to five

849
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:32,239
Speaker 1: second increments. There is a flow in an evolution, and

850
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:36,279
Speaker 1: I think that explaining who we really are. You know,

851
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:39,960
Speaker 1: our character defects, our flaws, are shortcomings to the things

852
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:44,960
Speaker 1: that make us brilliant and unique. To really examine those

853
00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:51,120
Speaker 1: is what this life really is all about. And that

854
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:55,400
Speaker 1: the rest of it is something is a hurdle to

855
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 1: get over. I love that analysis of it. I really do,

856
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:02,640
Speaker 1: because said earlier, you said where spiritual beings having this

857
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:06,360
Speaker 1: human experience? And I think a lot of people on

858
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:10,120
Speaker 1: their spiritual journeys or their inner journeys. At one point

859
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:15,879
Speaker 1: you get caught in the evolution of it where it's

860
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 1: hard being a spiritual being having a human experience, Like

861
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 1: you're like, how do I make music in this world?

862
00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 1: But then not feel of this world? Right? Like? That

863
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:31,840
Speaker 1: becomes a really tough thing. And I've worked on that personally.

864
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:33,399
Speaker 1: I work on it personally. I work with so many

865
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:37,040
Speaker 1: people on it personally, and I find that the natural

866
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 1: human instinct is to retreat. Yes, it's like to remove ourselves.

867
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:45,160
Speaker 1: And when I became a monk, I think subconsciously that's

868
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:48,120
Speaker 1: exactly what I was doing. Where I wasn't escaping because

869
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:51,400
Speaker 1: I didn't have a bad experience with the material world.

870
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 1: I could just see from other people's experiences that the

871
00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:58,120
Speaker 1: material world wasn't satisfying to them. I could see people

872
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:01,120
Speaker 1: who are more successful than me, more wealthy than me,

873
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:03,880
Speaker 1: more you know, everything than me. I was twenty one

874
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:07,399
Speaker 1: years old, and I could see that they weren't happy,

875
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:10,040
Speaker 1: and so I was like, Okay, well, I need to

876
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:13,360
Speaker 1: figure out a different path, and I gained three years

877
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:16,359
Speaker 1: of getting time to figure out what my values were

878
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:19,520
Speaker 1: and who I was and why I wanted to do anything,

879
00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:23,240
Speaker 1: and then coming back like I find that too today

880
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:25,640
Speaker 1: where it's like I'm not a monk anymore. I'm married,

881
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:30,200
Speaker 1: I have businesses, we have money, like you know, things

882
00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:33,279
Speaker 1: like that, And it was like I had to make

883
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:38,360
Speaker 1: peace and sense of those ideas for what they meant

884
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:41,640
Speaker 1: to me and what their use was without them defining

885
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:45,000
Speaker 1: me or me trying to distance myself from them. So

886
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 1: I think when we first we chase things and then

887
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:52,520
Speaker 1: we run away from them until we figure out how

888
00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:54,920
Speaker 1: to use them properly. Yes, No, I was on your

889
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:58,440
Speaker 1: Instagram a day, and you know, a massive way that

890
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:02,719
Speaker 1: we size people up, or that we gauge success is

891
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:07,520
Speaker 1: by numbers, right, analytics and find our own value, right,

892
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:11,880
Speaker 1: like how did this TikTok do? Why did this one work?

893
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:15,880
Speaker 1: In this one? Didn't you know? I really liked what

894
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:20,800
Speaker 1: I said in this one and in no one really

895
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:24,160
Speaker 1: no one shared it. Why? I mean, that's part of

896
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:31,000
Speaker 1: your business. Yet your platform is based around like mental health,

897
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:34,879
Speaker 1: which in a way our society, and yet the way

898
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:37,799
Speaker 1: that you talk about this is via TikTok, via Instagram,

899
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:40,960
Speaker 1: via these social media things that have got our society

900
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:45,080
Speaker 1: stuck in this place of comparison, in this place of ego,

901
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:47,319
Speaker 1: in this place of I am lesser than I am

902
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:50,160
Speaker 1: not enough. Look at all of these other people's lives

903
00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:53,719
Speaker 1: I am living, scrolling these death scrolls that we do.

904
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 1: I feel horrible about myself. Culture that is really addictive.

905
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:03,560
Speaker 1: How do you balance the game that you have to

906
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:07,279
Speaker 1: play yet with the spiritual mental health side that you

907
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:10,120
Speaker 1: have to live. Yeah, definitely is such a great question,

908
00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:15,080
Speaker 1: and I'd say that. So I started doing what i'd

909
00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:18,759
Speaker 1: do today offline when I was eighteen years old. So

910
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:20,879
Speaker 1: after I met the monk for the first time, which

911
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:22,520
Speaker 1: I talk about in my book Think Like a Monk.

912
00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:25,600
Speaker 1: I met my first monk teacher at eighteen years old,

913
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:28,239
Speaker 1: and I started spending time with him, and whatever he

914
00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:31,279
Speaker 1: would teach me, I would share it because I was

915
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:34,520
Speaker 1: so blown away by it. So I started a club

916
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:37,640
Speaker 1: or a society as we called him in England, a

917
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:42,040
Speaker 1: society at university at college called Think Out Loud, And

918
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:45,520
Speaker 1: every single week I'd invite students over and we'd sit

919
00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:50,799
Speaker 1: and we'd dissect a movie and talk about it philosophically, psychologically, spiritually,

920
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:54,279
Speaker 1: and I would facilitate these sessions. And when I first

921
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:57,160
Speaker 1: started them, like zero people showed up, because it's like

922
00:52:57,400 --> 00:52:59,319
Speaker 1: people at eighteen want to get drunk and go to

923
00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:01,840
Speaker 1: the club. They want to come to a society to

924
00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:04,839
Speaker 1: think out loud. And so then I started handing out

925
00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:07,239
Speaker 1: posters and flyers because I realized that I had to

926
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:10,160
Speaker 1: do a bit of marketing to make sure people were interested.

927
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:12,680
Speaker 1: And then people started coming, and so by the time

928
00:53:12,719 --> 00:53:15,839
Speaker 1: I finished university, we had a hundred people coming. No

929
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:18,120
Speaker 1: one paid for it. It It was absolutely free. I did

930
00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:19,799
Speaker 1: it because I loved it. I did it because I

931
00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:22,840
Speaker 1: got the buzz of presenting what I was learning to

932
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:25,560
Speaker 1: people and helping them. And I built some of my

933
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:28,759
Speaker 1: best friendships that way, because I met all these people

934
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:32,160
Speaker 1: at university who were like, oh, yeah, we Jay helps

935
00:53:32,239 --> 00:53:34,400
Speaker 1: us understand the stuff he's learning from the monks and

936
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:36,799
Speaker 1: the wisdom, the same stuff I do today. And then

937
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:38,879
Speaker 1: when I went to the monastery, obviously I actually spent

938
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:42,880
Speaker 1: time studying and deepening my meditation and actually deepening my skills.

939
00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:45,200
Speaker 1: And since I've come back, I've done the same thing.

940
00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:49,040
Speaker 1: So I've been doing this offline, when no one cared

941
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:51,759
Speaker 1: and no one viewed, and no one watched, and there

942
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:54,640
Speaker 1: were no followers and there was no money for ten

943
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:57,640
Speaker 1: years before I did it online. So up until six

944
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:00,000
Speaker 1: years ago, if you came to one of my events

945
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:03,279
Speaker 1: in London called Conscious Living, ten people showed up once

946
00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:06,000
Speaker 1: a month to hear me talk about these same things

947
00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:09,320
Speaker 1: that I talk about today, my underground rap career. Right, yeah, exact,

948
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:11,919
Speaker 1: that's basically what it is. It's like, and I did

949
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:14,640
Speaker 1: it for ten years, not thinking one day it would

950
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:16,880
Speaker 1: be big. I did it because I loved it. I

951
00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:20,120
Speaker 1: loved this, so I went from it. Yeah, I loved it.

952
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:22,680
Speaker 1: I did it for ten years with no money, no followers,

953
00:54:22,719 --> 00:54:25,560
Speaker 1: nor nothing, and it was amazing. Even when ten people

954
00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:28,560
Speaker 1: showed up, I was so grateful. So then when six

955
00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:30,440
Speaker 1: years ago this kind of took off, and then the

956
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:33,439
Speaker 1: last couple of years it's really blown up. I live

957
00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:37,680
Speaker 1: in gratitude every day. And yes, I am massively aware

958
00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:40,160
Speaker 1: of what connects with people and what resonates with people,

959
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:44,120
Speaker 1: but my intentions different. My intention is how deeply can

960
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:48,680
Speaker 1: I speak what I'm learning and what I've learned so

961
00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:52,120
Speaker 1: that it scales and gives access to everyone. So I'm

962
00:54:52,160 --> 00:54:56,040
Speaker 1: not basing my self worth on how many people like it.

963
00:54:56,480 --> 00:55:01,319
Speaker 1: I'm basing my ability to simplify ideas on that. And

964
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:03,799
Speaker 1: that's just one part of me. Right. My self worth

965
00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:06,279
Speaker 1: is based on how I feel about myself, how my

966
00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:08,600
Speaker 1: wife thinks about me because she knows me really well,

967
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:12,520
Speaker 1: how my monk teaches feel about what I do, and

968
00:55:12,600 --> 00:55:14,759
Speaker 1: my best friends who've been my best friends for like

969
00:55:14,760 --> 00:55:17,360
Speaker 1: nearly twenty years, Like those are the people whose opinion

970
00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:20,640
Speaker 1: matters deeply to me. My community here matters to me.

971
00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:23,400
Speaker 1: But at the same time, my self worth is not

972
00:55:23,520 --> 00:55:27,000
Speaker 1: based on that. My ability to do my job well

973
00:55:27,640 --> 00:55:30,879
Speaker 1: and the purpose I've chosen is based on that. And

974
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:34,480
Speaker 1: I think, like you're saying, that isn't a perfected formula.

975
00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:40,360
Speaker 1: It's a daily commitment to can I improve my ability

976
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:43,680
Speaker 1: to communicate? But this isn't me improving who I am.

977
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:48,239
Speaker 1: This is me improving my ability to communicate seemingly complex

978
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:52,439
Speaker 1: ideas in a way that everyone can understand and digest them.

979
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:55,040
Speaker 1: But that's just one percent of who I am. That's

980
00:55:55,120 --> 00:55:58,000
Speaker 1: not that's not me an entirety. If that makes sense,

981
00:55:58,040 --> 00:56:00,600
Speaker 1: it does, Yeah, do you look at the numbers. Of course,

982
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:03,719
Speaker 1: I do. Yeah, I think it's hard to do what

983
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:06,200
Speaker 1: I do without looking at the numbers. It's just that

984
00:56:06,239 --> 00:56:09,520
Speaker 1: the numbers don't dictate, like I won't go to sleep

985
00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:13,640
Speaker 1: upset at myself as a human being, as a soul

986
00:56:14,239 --> 00:56:17,560
Speaker 1: because of a number going badly. I will just be like,

987
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:22,560
Speaker 1: there is a defect in my process of communicating or

988
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:27,799
Speaker 1: effectively transferring this message that I can work on. But

989
00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:31,080
Speaker 1: if I think this is a problem with me, that's

990
00:56:31,120 --> 00:56:34,040
Speaker 1: too heavy. And that's where I think the disconnect is.

991
00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:38,640
Speaker 1: You can always blame the algorithm. Yeah, always. I don't

992
00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:41,480
Speaker 1: like doing that. I'm one of those people that I

993
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:43,799
Speaker 1: will sit down when people have like the issue is never,

994
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:47,319
Speaker 1: very rarely is the issue actually the algorithm. From my

995
00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:50,759
Speaker 1: six years of social media experence, the issue is your

996
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:56,399
Speaker 1: ability to understand what is going on. But again, that's

997
00:56:56,440 --> 00:56:59,080
Speaker 1: not you and so, and I think that's what we've

998
00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:03,480
Speaker 1: not learned how differentiate our album sales from our self

999
00:57:03,480 --> 00:57:07,759
Speaker 1: worth or our social media following from our self worth

1000
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:10,759
Speaker 1: and identity. So to me, there are two things this

1001
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:15,880
Speaker 1: I need to improve professionally, But my professional failure is

1002
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:20,440
Speaker 1: not a personal failure. And I think that I'm always

1003
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:22,480
Speaker 1: grappling with that. Again, I have not arrived. This is

1004
00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:26,720
Speaker 1: a daily conversation in my hair, but I feel healthier

1005
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:28,520
Speaker 1: that I want to figure out how to fix this

1006
00:57:28,640 --> 00:57:31,720
Speaker 1: for this, But fixing that is not fixing this. These

1007
00:57:31,720 --> 00:57:34,760
Speaker 1: are two separate Like I meditate for me, I don't

1008
00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:39,000
Speaker 1: meditate to improve my career, and I don't focus on

1009
00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:41,680
Speaker 1: my career to improve my feeling and me. There are

1010
00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:45,680
Speaker 1: two separate lanes, if that makes sense. I see success

1011
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:47,280
Speaker 1: and happiness, and I want to come to this to

1012
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:50,560
Speaker 1: ask you. I see success and happiness is two separate lanes.

1013
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:55,560
Speaker 1: Happiness is what I do for myself and success is

1014
00:57:55,560 --> 00:57:58,520
Speaker 1: what my career brings and what it can achieve. But

1015
00:57:58,640 --> 00:58:01,960
Speaker 1: I don't cross the two because that's when I think

1016
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:04,000
Speaker 1: it gets messy for me. And I wanted to ask that, like,

1017
00:58:04,120 --> 00:58:07,120
Speaker 1: as you've gone through so many highs and lows, successes

1018
00:58:07,120 --> 00:58:11,400
Speaker 1: and losses, how have you how do you define success

1019
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:13,760
Speaker 1: and happiness for yourself right now? Like how do you

1020
00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:16,160
Speaker 1: look at those terms and what do they mean to

1021
00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:18,240
Speaker 1: you now compared to what they meant to you like

1022
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:21,560
Speaker 1: ten fifteen years ago? Right? And I hope I'll to

1023
00:58:21,600 --> 00:58:25,200
Speaker 1: do a question. Yeah you did, Yeah beautifully honestly, it

1024
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:28,680
Speaker 1: was just an honest hunt. Yeah. No, I think about

1025
00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:32,840
Speaker 1: success very different, and I get caught up in the

1026
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:37,520
Speaker 1: matrix of everything, of course, But am I fulfilled? Happiness

1027
00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:41,040
Speaker 1: is fleeting? Right? The more we try to grab onto it,

1028
00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:46,000
Speaker 1: further it gets. Do I have sustained fulfillment? Do I

1029
00:58:46,080 --> 00:58:48,840
Speaker 1: have meaning? Do I have purpose? Do I have a

1030
00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:51,680
Speaker 1: life that is worth living? Do I feel excited to

1031
00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:55,560
Speaker 1: wake up most days? Am I engaged with my kids?

1032
00:58:55,600 --> 00:58:58,280
Speaker 1: All of those things that to me is what success

1033
00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:02,640
Speaker 1: feels like today. Now, I also have a business. I

1034
00:59:02,880 --> 00:59:08,200
Speaker 1: multiple businesses, and I like to win. I'm a competitive person.

1035
00:59:09,400 --> 00:59:14,200
Speaker 1: I do like to win. Now. Winning I think it

1036
00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:17,680
Speaker 1: is a tricky thing, right because oftentimes we don't know

1037
00:59:17,720 --> 00:59:20,280
Speaker 1: what We never know what's in store. I might drive

1038
00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:23,160
Speaker 1: away from here and you know, crash down the hill

1039
00:59:23,200 --> 00:59:27,840
Speaker 1: and that's it. You don't know. And I think about,

1040
00:59:28,840 --> 00:59:31,000
Speaker 1: you know, what I want. You know, the last two

1041
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:33,360
Speaker 1: singles that you've mentioned, I thought that there are really

1042
00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:36,240
Speaker 1: great pieces of art thought that they were you know,

1043
00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:40,200
Speaker 1: had potential for like you know, chand it's like it's

1044
00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:43,080
Speaker 1: got this anthemic hook and you know, it's it's got

1045
00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:45,880
Speaker 1: a feature that people know and I'm rapping really well

1046
00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:50,560
Speaker 1: and the beat gets really big. Hasn't performed well commercially.

1047
00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:53,360
Speaker 1: Maniac sounds like something that could be on the radio,

1048
00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:55,720
Speaker 1: and you know, it kind of is, but it's bubbling slowly,

1049
00:59:55,760 --> 00:59:58,640
Speaker 1: but it's not really streaming well. All these things, I

1050
00:59:58,720 --> 01:00:00,600
Speaker 1: have a team of people that are trying to figure

1051
01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:03,040
Speaker 1: out that. We're trying to figure out why this worked,

1052
01:00:03,080 --> 01:00:08,400
Speaker 1: why this didn't work. And I realize that the universe

1053
01:00:08,440 --> 01:00:11,320
Speaker 1: has already it's already been written. I believe that what's

1054
01:00:11,360 --> 01:00:13,760
Speaker 1: supposed to be will be. And when I can get

1055
01:00:13,800 --> 01:00:17,080
Speaker 1: in that place of acceptance that regardless of what happens

1056
01:00:17,120 --> 01:00:20,040
Speaker 1: with Chance, regardless of what happens with Maniac or the

1057
01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:22,800
Speaker 1: next single or my album and how many first week

1058
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:25,479
Speaker 1: sales it does on YouTube numbers, and if I grow

1059
01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:30,040
Speaker 1: my TikTok audience, all of that is not happiness. It

1060
01:00:30,120 --> 01:00:34,120
Speaker 1: is completely separate. And if I get too caught up

1061
01:00:34,120 --> 01:00:35,960
Speaker 1: in that, like you're saying, if I get too caught

1062
01:00:36,080 --> 01:00:39,840
Speaker 1: up in that world, then I cannot truly be fulfilled

1063
01:00:40,080 --> 01:00:44,920
Speaker 1: and have meaning in my spiritual life, which is where

1064
01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:49,280
Speaker 1: the true like, I'm just okay, I'm just okay with

1065
01:00:49,400 --> 01:00:54,240
Speaker 1: what is and I don't control it. And some of

1066
01:00:54,280 --> 01:00:57,280
Speaker 1: the most painful experiences where I was like, why is

1067
01:00:57,320 --> 01:01:00,600
Speaker 1: this happening to me? Like God, why would you do

1068
01:01:00,640 --> 01:01:04,760
Speaker 1: this to me? Were my greatest blessings were the things

1069
01:01:04,840 --> 01:01:08,160
Speaker 1: that opened up the door for something. And it sounds cliche,

1070
01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:10,760
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, but you have to go through

1071
01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:13,440
Speaker 1: those moments of pain. You have to walk through that

1072
01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:15,800
Speaker 1: fire to get to that place of Oh, I had

1073
01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:18,440
Speaker 1: no idea why I was doing that, And now I

1074
01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:21,480
Speaker 1: am here and look at how beautiful this moment is.

1075
01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:26,000
Speaker 1: And I think that the trick is remembering in those

1076
01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:30,520
Speaker 1: moments of why why is this happening, that there is

1077
01:01:30,560 --> 01:01:35,120
Speaker 1: a deeper reasoning and that this will pass. Yeah, totally. Yeah.

1078
01:01:35,160 --> 01:01:36,640
Speaker 1: The way I was thinking about what you were saying,

1079
01:01:36,680 --> 01:01:40,640
Speaker 1: and well, I was sharing earlier, and it's that Imagine

1080
01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:42,600
Speaker 1: you just a brand new car. You love it, you

1081
01:01:42,640 --> 01:01:45,240
Speaker 1: think it's beautiful, it's great, and you go driving and

1082
01:01:45,240 --> 01:01:46,520
Speaker 1: you were saying, when you drive out here and you're

1083
01:01:46,600 --> 01:01:50,000
Speaker 1: driving your car and then someone knocks into it and

1084
01:01:50,040 --> 01:01:52,480
Speaker 1: it gets to den and it's a really bad then

1085
01:01:52,600 --> 01:01:54,680
Speaker 1: that means you can't drive. It needs to get fixed,

1086
01:01:54,960 --> 01:01:57,160
Speaker 1: it needs to get sorted out. Now, when I get

1087
01:01:57,160 --> 01:01:58,960
Speaker 1: out of that car, and I get into bed that night.

1088
01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:05,360
Speaker 1: If I'm thinking I'm dented, that's just inaccurate. The truth

1089
01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:07,880
Speaker 1: is something I have, something I care about, is dented

1090
01:02:07,880 --> 01:02:11,000
Speaker 1: and that needs to be fixed. But I'm not dented

1091
01:02:11,040 --> 01:02:14,960
Speaker 1: because my car's dented. I'm not damaged because my car's damaged.

1092
01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:16,959
Speaker 1: My car's damage that needs to go to the shop

1093
01:02:16,960 --> 01:02:19,640
Speaker 1: and needs to get fixed, but that doesn't damage me.

1094
01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:22,320
Speaker 1: And I think that's that disconnect where it's like, yeah,

1095
01:02:22,400 --> 01:02:24,160
Speaker 1: like when you're saying, like the album sales are not right,

1096
01:02:24,160 --> 01:02:26,240
Speaker 1: whatever it is, it's like, yeah, that needs to be fixed,

1097
01:02:26,280 --> 01:02:28,440
Speaker 1: that needs to be sorted out. But that doesn't mean

1098
01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:31,000
Speaker 1: that I'm broken. That just means that there is a

1099
01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:34,080
Speaker 1: system mechanism with somehow how we're creating, how we're building

1100
01:02:34,360 --> 01:02:37,760
Speaker 1: that can be improved, right, and so to me, and

1101
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:39,680
Speaker 1: I love the point that you're saying that. To me,

1102
01:02:39,720 --> 01:02:44,760
Speaker 1: it's also an alignment of how much we're creating and

1103
01:02:44,800 --> 01:02:47,080
Speaker 1: what we're creating. I find that when I make something

1104
01:02:47,160 --> 01:02:51,920
Speaker 1: out of alignment, it's more likely to fail. When I

1105
01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:54,520
Speaker 1: make something from a place of I'm making this because

1106
01:02:54,560 --> 01:02:56,160
Speaker 1: I really believe in it, I care about it. I've

1107
01:02:56,200 --> 01:02:59,040
Speaker 1: actually focused on getting good at it, and now I'm

1108
01:02:59,040 --> 01:03:01,560
Speaker 1: putting it out there, it has a better chance of

1109
01:03:01,600 --> 01:03:04,000
Speaker 1: doing well versus when I put something out because I'm like,

1110
01:03:04,040 --> 01:03:06,480
Speaker 1: I can do this. I know I can do this

1111
01:03:06,560 --> 01:03:08,720
Speaker 1: because I have this. And so I think when people

1112
01:03:08,760 --> 01:03:11,000
Speaker 1: are like, oh, I have followers, so I can do this,

1113
01:03:11,680 --> 01:03:13,800
Speaker 1: but you don't really want to do that. You're just

1114
01:03:13,880 --> 01:03:16,840
Speaker 1: doing that because you have followers. And I think there's

1115
01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:20,640
Speaker 1: a study that shows how after someone sells a company

1116
01:03:20,920 --> 01:03:24,200
Speaker 1: in the next two years they make their worst investment decisions.

1117
01:03:24,760 --> 01:03:27,800
Speaker 1: Why because now they have money, So they make bad

1118
01:03:27,840 --> 01:03:30,880
Speaker 1: investment decisions. When you didn't have money, you made better

1119
01:03:30,920 --> 01:03:34,280
Speaker 1: investment decisions because you were so careful and so thoughtful

1120
01:03:34,280 --> 01:03:38,400
Speaker 1: about it. And so I find like sometimes abundance leads

1121
01:03:38,440 --> 01:03:44,800
Speaker 1: to stupidity because abundance needs to be treated with love

1122
01:03:44,800 --> 01:03:51,120
Speaker 1: and respect as opposed to with abandoned and wastage. But

1123
01:03:51,200 --> 01:03:54,280
Speaker 1: you brought up a good in terms of you know,

1124
01:03:54,360 --> 01:03:56,840
Speaker 1: the ten people that would come out in London, yeah,

1125
01:03:56,960 --> 01:04:02,400
Speaker 1: the top, and what your intention was. And I think

1126
01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:06,680
Speaker 1: that for all of us, but particularly being in the

1127
01:04:06,720 --> 01:04:10,880
Speaker 1: public eye, it's constantly moving that needle back to what

1128
01:04:11,080 --> 01:04:14,520
Speaker 1: is my intention here? Yes, what is my intention. Yes,

1129
01:04:15,360 --> 01:04:19,640
Speaker 1: And if you're in the studio and or you know

1130
01:04:19,720 --> 01:04:22,400
Speaker 1: I'm in the studio and I'm creating a record, if

1131
01:04:22,440 --> 01:04:24,840
Speaker 1: I'm going into it like this is the one that's

1132
01:04:24,880 --> 01:04:29,240
Speaker 1: going to be on the radio, that song sucks, that

1133
01:04:29,400 --> 01:04:32,200
Speaker 1: song is horrible. Yes, no one wants to hear that.

1134
01:04:32,280 --> 01:04:35,040
Speaker 1: And the public is smarter than we give the public

1135
01:04:35,040 --> 01:04:37,200
Speaker 1: credit for. They can tell when the artist doesn't know

1136
01:04:37,240 --> 01:04:39,120
Speaker 1: another artist and they just made a song because the

1137
01:04:39,160 --> 01:04:42,360
Speaker 1: labels were like, you know what, one plus one equals three. No,

1138
01:04:42,640 --> 01:04:48,880
Speaker 1: it doesn't. Real art is felt authentic people. Yeah, that's

1139
01:04:49,080 --> 01:04:52,960
Speaker 1: that's what's contagious, is when people can actually feel and

1140
01:04:53,120 --> 01:04:57,880
Speaker 1: hear that authenticity. You can't manufacture that. And again, but

1141
01:04:57,920 --> 01:05:00,560
Speaker 1: with all the noise, with all the white noise, it's

1142
01:05:00,640 --> 01:05:05,120
Speaker 1: it's in the periphery. If I'm not centered, if I'm

1143
01:05:05,120 --> 01:05:08,520
Speaker 1: not spiritually fit, I'm eventually going to feel like, guys,

1144
01:05:08,520 --> 01:05:11,160
Speaker 1: we need a TikTok song. We need something that like

1145
01:05:11,560 --> 01:05:14,640
Speaker 1: is going to be really catchy in a five second increment.

1146
01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:16,960
Speaker 1: If we don't have that, then I'm not going to

1147
01:05:17,080 --> 01:05:20,520
Speaker 1: be happy. Yeah, And it has been proven time and

1148
01:05:20,560 --> 01:05:23,520
Speaker 1: time again that that's not how art works. And I

1149
01:05:23,600 --> 01:05:27,840
Speaker 1: think that this fast food way of of of media

1150
01:05:27,960 --> 01:05:30,800
Speaker 1: right now in some ways can be great, but in

1151
01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:33,880
Speaker 1: other ways it's it has My fear is that it's

1152
01:05:34,040 --> 01:05:37,920
Speaker 1: killed the art. It's it's killed the overall arc of

1153
01:05:37,960 --> 01:05:41,080
Speaker 1: an album or the growth of an artist. You know,

1154
01:05:41,200 --> 01:05:45,000
Speaker 1: from track number one to song number fifteen. I've realized

1155
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:47,600
Speaker 1: in this in this album cycle that I'm like in

1156
01:05:47,720 --> 01:05:50,480
Speaker 1: the beginning stages of putting out, we don't take in

1157
01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:54,280
Speaker 1: media like that anymore. Like the album is almost obsolete,

1158
01:05:54,840 --> 01:05:57,680
Speaker 1: and um, I don't ever want to get to a

1159
01:05:57,720 --> 01:06:02,919
Speaker 1: place of creating out of necessity to appease an algorithm

1160
01:06:03,280 --> 01:06:06,280
Speaker 1: or a structure that I don't believe in. Yeah, I

1161
01:06:06,320 --> 01:06:08,680
Speaker 1: don't believe in it. Now that's understand. I'm not going

1162
01:06:08,720 --> 01:06:11,800
Speaker 1: to play the game with what I've created, Yeah, but

1163
01:06:11,880 --> 01:06:15,760
Speaker 1: I don't want to create and then go play the game.

1164
01:06:16,040 --> 01:06:20,840
Speaker 1: That's brilliant. I love that if the intention in the Vaders,

1165
01:06:20,880 --> 01:06:23,520
Speaker 1: which is the system that I studied as a monk,

1166
01:06:23,600 --> 01:06:27,200
Speaker 1: or the Vedic tradition, it said that there's four motivators

1167
01:06:27,280 --> 01:06:30,400
Speaker 1: or four intentions to my intention. So the lowest form

1168
01:06:30,440 --> 01:06:34,000
Speaker 1: of intention is fear or insecurity. We do something out

1169
01:06:34,000 --> 01:06:37,120
Speaker 1: of fear, So it's like I'm not relevant anymore. Right,

1170
01:06:37,400 --> 01:06:41,240
Speaker 1: let's make something that makes me feel relevant. Right. That's fear.

1171
01:06:41,400 --> 01:06:43,960
Speaker 1: That's not from a place of art. So you make

1172
01:06:44,040 --> 01:06:46,720
Speaker 1: something from a place of fear, it might do well,

1173
01:06:46,760 --> 01:06:50,080
Speaker 1: it might blow up, but you won't feel satisfied because

1174
01:06:50,120 --> 01:06:52,040
Speaker 1: you know that you're just scared, and now you're scared

1175
01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:54,200
Speaker 1: to do it again. So when you create a fear,

1176
01:06:54,240 --> 01:06:57,440
Speaker 1: it just creates more fears for new creativity because you

1177
01:06:57,480 --> 01:06:59,400
Speaker 1: don't know how you got there. Higher up from that

1178
01:06:59,520 --> 01:07:01,800
Speaker 1: is to have the intention of what you were saying.

1179
01:07:02,320 --> 01:07:04,840
Speaker 1: You have a target or a goal, but you just

1180
01:07:04,880 --> 01:07:06,800
Speaker 1: plucked it out the air. I want that number one.

1181
01:07:07,280 --> 01:07:09,160
Speaker 1: I want to build a billion dollar company. I want

1182
01:07:09,160 --> 01:07:12,000
Speaker 1: to And now it's just about this goal because the

1183
01:07:12,120 --> 01:07:14,800
Speaker 1: goal makes you feel good. You don't actually feel good

1184
01:07:14,800 --> 01:07:17,560
Speaker 1: about what you're making, but you like the idea of

1185
01:07:17,600 --> 01:07:21,000
Speaker 1: it might become a number one whatever billboard or whatever

1186
01:07:21,040 --> 01:07:23,160
Speaker 1: it may be. And so that's a goal or target.

1187
01:07:23,840 --> 01:07:26,520
Speaker 1: Higher than that intention is you're doing something because it

1188
01:07:26,560 --> 01:07:29,680
Speaker 1: feels true to you. And then higher than that is

1189
01:07:29,920 --> 01:07:33,400
Speaker 1: you're making something out of service or to improve people's

1190
01:07:33,440 --> 01:07:35,840
Speaker 1: lives or to impact people. So when you look at

1191
01:07:35,840 --> 01:07:39,600
Speaker 1: those four intentions. What I'm hearing is like, I want

1192
01:07:39,600 --> 01:07:42,720
Speaker 1: to try and make things in those top two intentions,

1193
01:07:43,160 --> 01:07:46,200
Speaker 1: and that way I'll be fulfilled. And like you said,

1194
01:07:46,240 --> 01:07:48,400
Speaker 1: we can play the game with those things too. We'll

1195
01:07:48,400 --> 01:07:51,120
Speaker 1: still figure out a way to make those things relevant

1196
01:07:51,160 --> 01:07:54,240
Speaker 1: and important, but we know that the art is sacred.

1197
01:07:54,800 --> 01:07:57,480
Speaker 1: The art wasn't sold out. And I think that's what

1198
01:07:57,520 --> 01:08:00,600
Speaker 1: I've vibe with too, Like I can totally behind that

1199
01:08:00,680 --> 01:08:04,440
Speaker 1: because I always connect back to why I started and

1200
01:08:04,480 --> 01:08:07,760
Speaker 1: what connected and I love the joy of making something

1201
01:08:07,880 --> 01:08:10,200
Speaker 1: sacred go viral. I get so much of a kick

1202
01:08:10,240 --> 01:08:12,919
Speaker 1: out of that, rather than making something sellout go viral,

1203
01:08:12,920 --> 01:08:17,120
Speaker 1: because it would go viral anyway. Yeah, that's great, dude, Like, oh,

1204
01:08:17,160 --> 01:08:21,200
Speaker 1: you're inspiring this well. I mean you think about whenever

1205
01:08:21,280 --> 01:08:25,880
Speaker 1: I'm in the studio, you're trying to get to those

1206
01:08:25,960 --> 01:08:31,559
Speaker 1: top two and it's almost an exercise when I'm in

1207
01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:35,400
Speaker 1: front of the page to work through those bottom two

1208
01:08:35,479 --> 01:08:39,360
Speaker 1: layers because they're there. They're not always there, but they

1209
01:08:39,360 --> 01:08:41,400
Speaker 1: can pop up. You know that, like can you do

1210
01:08:41,439 --> 01:08:43,599
Speaker 1: it again? And then you said it, like, Okay, now

1211
01:08:43,640 --> 01:08:45,880
Speaker 1: you did it, You're still not fulfilled. Can you hold

1212
01:08:45,920 --> 01:08:49,920
Speaker 1: on to it? And you watch people their entire careers

1213
01:08:50,439 --> 01:08:53,639
Speaker 1: trying to hold on to that relevancy, and it's just

1214
01:08:53,680 --> 01:08:56,640
Speaker 1: this game of like, come on, can we hold on

1215
01:08:56,720 --> 01:08:59,720
Speaker 1: to this thing that's like, you know, so we can

1216
01:08:59,760 --> 01:09:02,280
Speaker 1: be in this echelon and keep working and keep going

1217
01:09:02,320 --> 01:09:05,120
Speaker 1: and never take more than a you know, fourteen months

1218
01:09:05,160 --> 01:09:07,280
Speaker 1: off of an album cycle. We gotta keep going. What

1219
01:09:07,360 --> 01:09:11,680
Speaker 1: awards shore we showing. It's exhausting, It is exhausting, and

1220
01:09:11,720 --> 01:09:13,840
Speaker 1: I couldn't keep up with it. And I realize that

1221
01:09:13,920 --> 01:09:16,840
Speaker 1: a really you know, in the first couple months of

1222
01:09:16,880 --> 01:09:20,720
Speaker 1: being like really famous, that this was not sustainable for me,

1223
01:09:21,120 --> 01:09:23,360
Speaker 1: that I needed to recharges, that I needed to take

1224
01:09:23,439 --> 01:09:26,240
Speaker 1: take time off to work on myself. So when I

1225
01:09:26,320 --> 01:09:28,960
Speaker 1: go into the studio, I'm not operating out of that

1226
01:09:29,000 --> 01:09:33,040
Speaker 1: place of fear, of scarcity, of you know what if

1227
01:09:33,080 --> 01:09:37,960
Speaker 1: this doesn't happen. It's like, dude, and I think that

1228
01:09:37,960 --> 01:09:41,160
Speaker 1: that's easier said than done. When you had the success, right,

1229
01:09:41,240 --> 01:09:43,320
Speaker 1: when you're like, you know what, I'm gonna be good

1230
01:09:43,320 --> 01:09:47,200
Speaker 1: for life financially, I'm straight, just be honest, I'm gonna

1231
01:09:47,200 --> 01:09:49,960
Speaker 1: be okay. But when you're you know, when you're really

1232
01:09:50,360 --> 01:09:52,040
Speaker 1: you know, I'm trying to feed my family, and I've

1233
01:09:52,080 --> 01:09:54,599
Speaker 1: been there too. You know, I'm trying to, you know,

1234
01:09:54,680 --> 01:09:57,080
Speaker 1: make sure that I don't overdraft, that I'm that I

1235
01:09:57,240 --> 01:09:59,880
Speaker 1: you know, can pay this month's rent with my sick

1236
01:10:00,160 --> 01:10:02,000
Speaker 1: people I'm living with, and you know, I need to

1237
01:10:02,040 --> 01:10:04,880
Speaker 1: get this show. So there's there's a privilege and being

1238
01:10:04,880 --> 01:10:06,920
Speaker 1: able to like be like okay, well like now I'm

1239
01:10:06,960 --> 01:10:09,800
Speaker 1: just working on the spiritual side of myself, and there's

1240
01:10:09,800 --> 01:10:12,479
Speaker 1: an actual real side of it, you know, in terms

1241
01:10:12,520 --> 01:10:15,160
Speaker 1: of the physical world of I need to eat, I

1242
01:10:15,240 --> 01:10:17,320
Speaker 1: need to be able to pay for this roof over

1243
01:10:17,360 --> 01:10:22,880
Speaker 1: my head. Yeah, but still I'm almost writing in that

1244
01:10:22,960 --> 01:10:26,759
Speaker 1: space to to get out the cobwebs of those first

1245
01:10:26,800 --> 01:10:31,000
Speaker 1: two two layers and get to a place of you

1246
01:10:31,040 --> 01:10:34,600
Speaker 1: know what, bare minimum. This does nothing. At least we

1247
01:10:34,680 --> 01:10:38,400
Speaker 1: had a great time in the studio. At least I

1248
01:10:38,479 --> 01:10:41,160
Speaker 1: found out some truth about myself. At least this was

1249
01:10:41,200 --> 01:10:45,000
Speaker 1: an exercise where I got better at my craft and

1250
01:10:45,080 --> 01:10:48,800
Speaker 1: I enjoyed being creative, and I got together with community

1251
01:10:48,840 --> 01:10:52,680
Speaker 1: whoever was in the studio, and we made something that

1252
01:10:52,720 --> 01:10:56,920
Speaker 1: will be around forever, regardless of if it's viral or

1253
01:10:56,960 --> 01:11:00,960
Speaker 1: if it's a number one or top one hundred. Doesn't matter.

1254
01:11:01,320 --> 01:11:05,120
Speaker 1: We made something with pure intention and the people that

1255
01:11:05,280 --> 01:11:07,439
Speaker 1: hurt it were the people that were supposed to and

1256
01:11:07,520 --> 01:11:09,920
Speaker 1: everything else is outside of my control. And if you're

1257
01:11:09,920 --> 01:11:13,880
Speaker 1: a creative then you just keep going. Yeah, you just

1258
01:11:14,040 --> 01:11:16,840
Speaker 1: keep going. And I was like, I was listening to

1259
01:11:16,880 --> 01:11:19,960
Speaker 1: some old music that I had written in like you know,

1260
01:11:20,040 --> 01:11:22,360
Speaker 1: two thousand and four or five or something, the other day,

1261
01:11:22,360 --> 01:11:25,759
Speaker 1: and there's this Dennis Hopper sample and he's talking about

1262
01:11:26,520 --> 01:11:29,160
Speaker 1: you know, if you're an artist, if you are really

1263
01:11:29,200 --> 01:11:33,479
Speaker 1: truly an artist, your art is like breathing. You have

1264
01:11:33,560 --> 01:11:36,880
Speaker 1: no choice but to create that that is the exercise.

1265
01:11:37,600 --> 01:11:40,880
Speaker 1: And I want to be that person. I am that person.

1266
01:11:40,880 --> 01:11:42,920
Speaker 1: I don't have to try to be that person. I

1267
01:11:43,080 --> 01:11:46,280
Speaker 1: just I am an artist. And for those of us

1268
01:11:46,320 --> 01:11:50,400
Speaker 1: that are, there is no choice. The success is a bonus.

1269
01:11:50,920 --> 01:11:52,599
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, if I wasn't

1270
01:11:52,600 --> 01:11:54,479
Speaker 1: doing this for a living, sure I might have a

1271
01:11:54,479 --> 01:11:58,559
Speaker 1: different nine to five. But I can almost guarantee you

1272
01:11:58,880 --> 01:12:01,000
Speaker 1: that when I get home from work, I'd be going

1273
01:12:01,120 --> 01:12:04,360
Speaker 1: right back to writing wraps. Yeah, And that's what it is.

1274
01:12:04,400 --> 01:12:07,479
Speaker 1: It's that love, it's that dedication. And I love the

1275
01:12:07,520 --> 01:12:09,720
Speaker 1: clarity you gave though of when you're on the come

1276
01:12:09,800 --> 01:12:14,839
Speaker 1: up versus when you've created a platform, because I agree

1277
01:12:14,840 --> 01:12:18,920
Speaker 1: with you that sometimes fear and the goal of survival

1278
01:12:19,600 --> 01:12:22,679
Speaker 1: are actually what gets you started and gets you going

1279
01:12:22,840 --> 01:12:26,200
Speaker 1: and gets you your first breakthrough. It's just once you've

1280
01:12:26,240 --> 01:12:30,719
Speaker 1: had that, please upgrade, right, because if you don't upgrade

1281
01:12:30,720 --> 01:12:34,640
Speaker 1: at that point, you're still driving in gear two and

1282
01:12:34,680 --> 01:12:36,160
Speaker 1: it's like, but no, no, no, you were meant to

1283
01:12:36,160 --> 01:12:38,439
Speaker 1: get to gear five by now and you're still going

1284
01:12:38,960 --> 01:12:43,320
Speaker 1: at gear two and it's like, that's what takes you

1285
01:12:43,360 --> 01:12:45,320
Speaker 1: down the other way. And so I agree with you.

1286
01:12:45,360 --> 01:12:47,120
Speaker 1: I think you're right there. I think it's such a

1287
01:12:47,160 --> 01:12:49,720
Speaker 1: great clarification. I'm so glad you brought that up that

1288
01:12:49,840 --> 01:12:52,600
Speaker 1: sometimes fear and the goal and the insecurity is what

1289
01:12:52,720 --> 01:12:56,200
Speaker 1: gets you moving, and there's nothing wrong with that. It's

1290
01:12:56,200 --> 01:12:58,320
Speaker 1: just that it gets you moving, it's just not going

1291
01:12:58,360 --> 01:13:02,559
Speaker 1: to keep momentum. And I've just seen too many people

1292
01:13:02,760 --> 01:13:06,160
Speaker 1: just stay on that gear too, and that's when you

1293
01:13:06,280 --> 01:13:09,160
Speaker 1: when it all breaks down. Right, So I think that's

1294
01:13:09,320 --> 01:13:13,599
Speaker 1: that's such a beautiful description. Where are you today as

1295
01:13:13,640 --> 01:13:15,639
Speaker 1: you look to the future, as you look to now,

1296
01:13:15,720 --> 01:13:18,759
Speaker 1: as you look to what you're building and creating for yourself,

1297
01:13:18,840 --> 01:13:22,720
Speaker 1: Like what are the values that govern your personal and

1298
01:13:22,840 --> 01:13:24,960
Speaker 1: professional life today? Like, what are some of the values

1299
01:13:25,000 --> 01:13:29,639
Speaker 1: that you're developing, working on and holding close to your

1300
01:13:29,640 --> 01:13:38,320
Speaker 1: heart right now? Honesty with myself, with my partner, with

1301
01:13:38,360 --> 01:13:43,640
Speaker 1: my kids, with my community. I want to be transparents

1302
01:13:43,760 --> 01:13:49,680
Speaker 1: in all facets of where I'm at. I think that vulnerability, honesty,

1303
01:13:50,160 --> 01:13:53,280
Speaker 1: telling the truth are constantly things that I come back

1304
01:13:53,320 --> 01:13:58,439
Speaker 1: to that just make my life more streamline. I don't

1305
01:13:58,479 --> 01:14:01,120
Speaker 1: want to hide anything. I don't want this person to

1306
01:14:01,200 --> 01:14:03,760
Speaker 1: know this part of me and this person like I

1307
01:14:03,880 --> 01:14:06,640
Speaker 1: want to be someone that can hold that space of

1308
01:14:06,720 --> 01:14:10,840
Speaker 1: this is who I am and and I'm honest about it.

1309
01:14:11,000 --> 01:14:13,599
Speaker 1: I want to have integrity in that sense. I want

1310
01:14:13,600 --> 01:14:19,240
Speaker 1: to keep delving into the layers of my own character, defects,

1311
01:14:19,320 --> 01:14:21,639
Speaker 1: of things that I need to work on, of studying

1312
01:14:21,640 --> 01:14:24,880
Speaker 1: my past traumas in order to figure out my next

1313
01:14:24,920 --> 01:14:29,000
Speaker 1: step in to figure out where I'm at. I want

1314
01:14:29,040 --> 01:14:34,160
Speaker 1: to I want to be a dad that listens, that

1315
01:14:34,400 --> 01:14:40,200
Speaker 1: ask questions, that is there for the beautiful moments, the

1316
01:14:40,320 --> 01:14:45,000
Speaker 1: difficult ones. That's super important to me. And I realize

1317
01:14:45,080 --> 01:14:48,240
Speaker 1: that with my lifestyle, there's a frequency in our house

1318
01:14:48,520 --> 01:14:52,479
Speaker 1: right Like my wife is working on a million things

1319
01:14:52,520 --> 01:14:55,080
Speaker 1: that have to do with all of our creative projects.

1320
01:14:55,200 --> 01:14:57,760
Speaker 1: I am there's people in and out of my house

1321
01:14:57,920 --> 01:15:01,559
Speaker 1: all the time, and I think that that frequency my kids.

1322
01:15:01,600 --> 01:15:03,720
Speaker 1: I know they can feel it. I know they can

1323
01:15:03,840 --> 01:15:08,719
Speaker 1: feel the insanity of this creative like you know home

1324
01:15:08,800 --> 01:15:11,960
Speaker 1: that we have that is beautiful, but it's also chaotic.

1325
01:15:12,120 --> 01:15:17,439
Speaker 1: And I want to make sure that I'm taking time

1326
01:15:17,479 --> 01:15:21,559
Speaker 1: for those small moments that is much of like this

1327
01:15:22,080 --> 01:15:24,880
Speaker 1: rat race that we're in to to do a media

1328
01:15:25,000 --> 01:15:28,200
Speaker 1: run and to you know, go from here to the

1329
01:15:28,240 --> 01:15:31,120
Speaker 1: next thing to this, and that I'm taking the time

1330
01:15:31,200 --> 01:15:34,120
Speaker 1: to really be present with my kids because it goes

1331
01:15:34,800 --> 01:15:37,720
Speaker 1: so quickly. You know, my daughter's already, you know, my

1332
01:15:38,240 --> 01:15:40,519
Speaker 1: eldest is seven and a half. And it's like, seems

1333
01:15:40,560 --> 01:15:43,000
Speaker 1: like it's so cliche. It seems like yesterday she was,

1334
01:15:43,120 --> 01:15:46,639
Speaker 1: you know, two months old. And I know that that's

1335
01:15:46,640 --> 01:15:48,719
Speaker 1: how life moves. And I just want to be someone

1336
01:15:48,800 --> 01:15:51,680
Speaker 1: that like when I look back at it all, through

1337
01:15:51,720 --> 01:15:55,000
Speaker 1: all the ups, the downs, the triumphs, the shortcomings, that

1338
01:15:55,080 --> 01:15:57,559
Speaker 1: I can look back on it all and be like,

1339
01:15:57,640 --> 01:16:03,120
Speaker 1: you know what, I left something here on this earth.

1340
01:16:03,600 --> 01:16:07,559
Speaker 1: I was I made some art that impacted the world,

1341
01:16:08,000 --> 01:16:11,000
Speaker 1: and that doesn't need to be on a broad, big,

1342
01:16:11,400 --> 01:16:14,679
Speaker 1: broad brushstroke scale. That can just be with a couple

1343
01:16:14,760 --> 01:16:18,479
Speaker 1: individuals that I made some art that resonated, that changed

1344
01:16:18,520 --> 01:16:21,960
Speaker 1: some lives, and not in the grandiose way, but just

1345
01:16:22,040 --> 01:16:25,519
Speaker 1: like the mcs that came before me, underground rappers that

1346
01:16:25,680 --> 01:16:28,320
Speaker 1: changed the way I think about life, that you know

1347
01:16:28,360 --> 01:16:30,879
Speaker 1: I think about there's this there's this rapper that passed

1348
01:16:31,960 --> 01:16:34,599
Speaker 1: from from the group Black Alisious. His name's Gifted Gab

1349
01:16:35,400 --> 01:16:38,160
Speaker 1: and he passed last year and he had this this

1350
01:16:38,240 --> 01:16:42,960
Speaker 1: era of fantastic music and he and he passed away,

1351
01:16:42,960 --> 01:16:46,240
Speaker 1: didn't know he was sick, and he passed away um

1352
01:16:46,320 --> 01:16:50,880
Speaker 1: during COVID, and I remember just thinking like I never

1353
01:16:50,960 --> 01:16:54,160
Speaker 1: got to tell him what his music meant to me.

1354
01:16:54,720 --> 01:17:00,400
Speaker 1: And this spiritual um, the spirituality in his writing, and

1355
01:17:00,479 --> 01:17:02,880
Speaker 1: how that resonated with me when I was eighteen years

1356
01:17:02,880 --> 01:17:06,400
Speaker 1: old that led me to delve into myself via the pen,

1357
01:17:07,000 --> 01:17:12,120
Speaker 1: and that if it wasn't for him, I might not

1358
01:17:12,200 --> 01:17:14,559
Speaker 1: have ever written other side, I might not have ever

1359
01:17:14,600 --> 01:17:19,280
Speaker 1: written same love. That he actually gave me some tools

1360
01:17:19,320 --> 01:17:22,439
Speaker 1: that opened up this conduit that I was able to

1361
01:17:22,520 --> 01:17:25,559
Speaker 1: channel something bigger than myself in these moments that led

1362
01:17:25,600 --> 01:17:28,639
Speaker 1: to music that then impacted others, and that that music

1363
01:17:28,680 --> 01:17:33,280
Speaker 1: could go on to transfer in different ways to a

1364
01:17:33,439 --> 01:17:36,080
Speaker 1: next generation. That is what I'm seeking as a person

1365
01:17:36,200 --> 01:17:39,160
Speaker 1: and as an artist. And I think that that you know,

1366
01:17:39,200 --> 01:17:42,000
Speaker 1: when you've had that platform, you know, or you have

1367
01:17:42,120 --> 01:17:45,240
Speaker 1: a platform like I have, there's this tendency to think

1368
01:17:45,280 --> 01:17:47,479
Speaker 1: that it has to be on this massive scale, and

1369
01:17:47,520 --> 01:17:51,000
Speaker 1: I don't want to think about my life in this big,

1370
01:17:51,439 --> 01:17:54,280
Speaker 1: you know, open canvas of a world like I need to.

1371
01:17:54,479 --> 01:17:56,920
Speaker 1: You know, it needs to be millions and you know,

1372
01:17:57,240 --> 01:17:59,759
Speaker 1: a billion people that know who I am, and lose

1373
01:18:00,640 --> 01:18:02,719
Speaker 1: what's right in front of me, which is my seven

1374
01:18:02,760 --> 01:18:06,200
Speaker 1: year old, my four year old and my fourteen month old,

1375
01:18:06,479 --> 01:18:09,040
Speaker 1: or my wife and know that my family is there,

1376
01:18:09,600 --> 01:18:14,320
Speaker 1: and that's at the very forefront of what I care about,

1377
01:18:14,400 --> 01:18:16,439
Speaker 1: just as much as speaking to the rest of the world.

1378
01:18:16,479 --> 01:18:19,799
Speaker 1: I don't want to miss that, Ben, that's extremely powerful,

1379
01:18:19,840 --> 01:18:22,960
Speaker 1: and I love that reflection coming through you right now

1380
01:18:23,000 --> 01:18:26,840
Speaker 1: and channeling all those ideas with us. We end every

1381
01:18:26,840 --> 01:18:32,320
Speaker 1: episode with two segments. One's called the Final Five, which

1382
01:18:32,400 --> 01:18:35,760
Speaker 1: is every question has to be answered in one word

1383
01:18:35,760 --> 01:18:39,120
Speaker 1: to one sentence maximum, so you have a sentence one

1384
01:18:39,120 --> 01:18:41,800
Speaker 1: word too one sentence you get, you get that, and

1385
01:18:41,800 --> 01:18:43,360
Speaker 1: then we'll do the other one. So these are your

1386
01:18:43,360 --> 01:18:46,320
Speaker 1: final five Ben. The first question is what is the

1387
01:18:46,439 --> 01:18:53,599
Speaker 1: best advice you've ever received? Be present, see present, simple

1388
01:18:53,680 --> 01:18:56,400
Speaker 1: and easy. That's good advice. That's that's always great advice.

1389
01:18:56,920 --> 01:18:59,280
Speaker 1: What's some of the worst advice you've had received or

1390
01:18:59,640 --> 01:19:02,360
Speaker 1: seen repeated? Or advice you never want your kids to

1391
01:19:02,400 --> 01:19:05,760
Speaker 1: receive advice you never want them to hear. I never

1392
01:19:05,840 --> 01:19:10,120
Speaker 1: want my kids to believe that other people's opinion of

1393
01:19:10,160 --> 01:19:15,559
Speaker 1: them is any of their business. I agree, that's beautiful,

1394
01:19:15,560 --> 01:19:18,599
Speaker 1: all right. Question number three, what is your current purpose

1395
01:19:18,640 --> 01:19:21,080
Speaker 1: in life? Like? How do you define your purpose today

1396
01:19:21,240 --> 01:19:23,240
Speaker 1: in the work you do and who you are? My

1397
01:19:23,320 --> 01:19:29,719
Speaker 1: purpose is to create, to explore, and to show up

1398
01:19:29,800 --> 01:19:33,639
Speaker 1: for other people. Question number four, if you could, what's

1399
01:19:33,680 --> 01:19:36,839
Speaker 1: something you used to value that you don't value anymore.

1400
01:19:37,160 --> 01:19:43,759
Speaker 1: I used to value superficial momentary escapism. Fifth and final

1401
01:19:43,880 --> 01:19:46,000
Speaker 1: question we asked this to every guest on the show.

1402
01:19:46,360 --> 01:19:49,240
Speaker 1: If you could create one law that everyone in the

1403
01:19:49,280 --> 01:19:53,599
Speaker 1: world had to follow, what would it be that all

1404
01:19:53,800 --> 01:20:00,760
Speaker 1: people would have empathy for one another, need that and

1405
01:20:00,880 --> 01:20:05,040
Speaker 1: accept people for where they're at. Ben, thank you so much.

1406
01:20:05,880 --> 01:20:07,840
Speaker 1: I'm so grateful to have spend this time with you,

1407
01:20:07,960 --> 01:20:10,560
Speaker 1: to have had the opportunity to connect with you and me.

1408
01:20:10,680 --> 01:20:13,040
Speaker 1: We've been talking for like nearly two hours. It's been amazing,

1409
01:20:13,600 --> 01:20:17,559
Speaker 1: and thank you for being so open, so vulnerable, so

1410
01:20:17,560 --> 01:20:22,000
Speaker 1: so giving, and also just generating so many interesting directions

1411
01:20:22,040 --> 01:20:25,320
Speaker 1: for this. It felt like a real conversation and back

1412
01:20:25,360 --> 01:20:28,000
Speaker 1: and forth. So I appreciate that alone. Absolutely. Thank you

1413
01:20:28,040 --> 01:20:32,400
Speaker 1: so much, thank you, thank you. And everyone's been listening

1414
01:20:32,400 --> 01:20:35,519
Speaker 1: and watching, whether you're walking your dog, whether you're cooking,

1415
01:20:35,680 --> 01:20:38,599
Speaker 1: whether you're on your way to work, on your way

1416
01:20:38,640 --> 01:20:40,880
Speaker 1: back from work, or at work. I want you to

1417
01:20:40,960 --> 01:20:44,080
Speaker 1: share what you learned today, so please tag us both

1418
01:20:44,120 --> 01:20:48,360
Speaker 1: on Instagram, on TikTok, on YouTube, on whatever platform you

1419
01:20:48,479 --> 01:20:50,479
Speaker 1: use Twitter, and just let us know what were the

1420
01:20:50,479 --> 01:20:53,240
Speaker 1: insights that stuck with you. Maybe there's a practice or

1421
01:20:53,240 --> 01:20:55,040
Speaker 1: an idea that you're going to share with a friend.

1422
01:20:55,160 --> 01:20:58,639
Speaker 1: I love knowing what's going to stay with you from

1423
01:20:58,640 --> 01:21:01,160
Speaker 1: this conversation, And of course we hope that Ben will

1424
01:21:01,160 --> 01:21:03,920
Speaker 1: come back on in the future and keep documenting this

1425
01:21:04,000 --> 01:21:06,760
Speaker 1: journey with us. You have an opening by Ben whenever

1426
01:21:06,800 --> 01:21:09,439
Speaker 1: you want to come back. So grateful for your time,

1427
01:21:09,560 --> 01:21:13,040
Speaker 1: Like thank you, If you love this episode, you'll really

1428
01:21:13,160 --> 01:21:17,400
Speaker 1: enjoy my episode with Selena Gomez on befriending your inner

1429
01:21:17,400 --> 01:21:21,080
Speaker 1: critic and how to speak to yourself with more compassion.