Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. Bloomberg Tech is alive
Speaker 1: from coast to coast with Caroline Hyde in New York
Speaker 1: and Vla Lowe in San Francisco.
Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Tech coming up a US reversal as
Speaker 2: Nvidia and AMD are set to resume some AI chip
Speaker 2: sales to China. Plus, we're live from the inaugural Pennsylvania
Speaker 2: Energy and Innovation Event. Our conversations with US Energy Secretary
Speaker 2: Chris Wright and White House AI and cryptos are David Sachs.
Speaker 2: An AI startup Commission has agreed to buy what remains
Speaker 2: of Windsor for an undisclosed sum. Both CEOs join us
Speaker 2: later this hour. Let's get back to our top story,
Speaker 2: and that is that Nvidia and AMD will start selling
Speaker 2: some AI chips back into China after the adminutetration and
Speaker 2: US government signaled that they would secure the licenses and
Speaker 2: approvals to do so. Nvidia continues to for hire a
Speaker 2: fresh record highs four point two trillion dollar market cap company.
Speaker 2: We know the story there, Jensen Wang right now is
Speaker 2: in China, AMD trading at its highest level since October.
Speaker 2: There are many questions about why now, Let's get out
Speaker 2: to Washington, DC, Bloomberg's Mike Sheppard, and that's where I start.
Speaker 2: The timing of this mic. Very interesting. What do you
Speaker 2: make of it?
Speaker 3: Well, it's fascinating.
Speaker 4: This announcement today from in video in the overnight hours
Speaker 4: comes less than a week after Jensen Wang sat down
Speaker 4: with President Donald Trump in Washington and the White House
Speaker 4: for a closed door meeting. Now we don't know what
Speaker 4: was said in private between the two men, but one
Speaker 4: thing we do know is that Jensen Wang has been
Speaker 4: clear in his message that US export controls that have
Speaker 4: hit his company particularly hard had been a failure and
Speaker 4: that put US competitiveness at risk. His vision is that
Speaker 4: if is unable to sell a modified and slowed down
Speaker 4: version of its AI chip into China, the US will
Speaker 4: be seeding that market in essence to Nvidia's chief Chinese rival,
Speaker 4: Huawei Technologies, and that would set the stage, potentially ed
Speaker 4: for Huawei to then start exporting some of that AI
Speaker 4: technology into other countries where in Vidio would also like
Speaker 4: to have a toe hold and bigger footprint. For Jensen Wong,
Speaker 4: he really wants the global rollout of AI to be
Speaker 4: defined by what he calls the American stack of technology
Speaker 4: rather than the Chinese one ad.
Speaker 2: I think we need to talk about Nvidia's business here
Speaker 2: as well. Right, this is the H twenty chip, and
Speaker 2: when they stopped shipping the H Chinese to China, we
Speaker 2: were able to quantify the impact at least to the
Speaker 2: top line of Nvidia's business. What do we know will
Speaker 2: happen in the second half of this year in terms
Speaker 2: of sales and what business they can claw back.
Speaker 4: Well, when they released their results for the first quarter,
Speaker 4: they did report a four point five billion dollars write
Speaker 4: down related to those export curbs on the AGE twenty chip.
Speaker 4: And remember the H twenty chip have been redesigned specifically
Speaker 4: for the Chinese market to meet earlier rounds of US
Speaker 4: export curbs that were enacted on national security grounds. Now
Speaker 4: they should they stay in place, would have hit the
Speaker 4: bottom line even further. This coming quarter. They were projecting
Speaker 4: law sales up to eight billion dollars, but that could
Speaker 4: all change.
Speaker 2: Here ed there's the trade and business case, and then
Speaker 2: there's the politics. This was Treasury Secretary Scott Besson speaking
Speaker 2: on Bloomberg Television earlier today.
Speaker 5: You might say that that was a negotiating chip that
Speaker 5: we used in Geneva and in London.
Speaker 6: It was all part of a mosaic.
Speaker 5: They had things we wanted, we have things they wanted, and.
Speaker 6: We're in a very good place.
Speaker 5: I expect to meet my Chinese counterpart, the Vice premiere
Speaker 5: in the next few weeks.
Speaker 2: Was this a boggaining chip literally that played into trade
Speaker 2: talks between the US and China.
Speaker 4: Well, it certainly is something that Chinese officials would have
Speaker 4: raised during the talks, and for the first time, US
Speaker 4: officials are indicating that the chip export curbs actually emerged
Speaker 4: as something in the negotiation. So it's unclear where they rank,
Speaker 4: but certainly it helped the US gain access to those
Speaker 4: rare earth exports from China that American customers had suddenly
Speaker 4: found difficulty buying as China began to slow down its
Speaker 4: sales of those crucial products to automakers and other buyers.
Speaker 2: Here bloombergs Mike Shepherd in Washington, d C. Thank you
Speaker 2: very much. We have some breaking news crossing the Bloomberg
Speaker 2: terminal and it involves poly Market. According to Bloomberg's reporting,
Speaker 2: both a DOJ and a CFTC investigation into where the
Speaker 2: polymarket was accepting trades from US based users that were
Speaker 2: in violation of its previous settlement agreements with the federal
Speaker 2: regulatory bodies have been dismissed. That's according to a Bloomberg source,
Speaker 2: who says that these two investigations from the BIDE era
Speaker 2: are now being terminated. We'll bring you more on that
Speaker 2: story as we get it, but it's just broken across Bloomberg.
Speaker 2: The sick were Crypto. It's been an eventful week in markets.
Speaker 2: We had tech earnings, but it's also Crypto week, which
Speaker 2: is underway. Joining us now to discuss is Catherine Dowling
Speaker 2: Bitwise Asset Management, General Counsel and Chief Compliance Office. And
Speaker 2: I've got to Katain. I want to ask you for
Speaker 2: your reaction to that story we just broke. I'll go
Speaker 2: over the reporting. There were two investigations into Polymarket, the
Speaker 2: US Justice Department and also the CFTC looking at where
Speaker 2: the polymarket was accepting trades, but that was a bid
Speaker 2: near investigation that our reporting says is over. What do
Speaker 2: you make of that?
Speaker 6: You know?
Speaker 4: Ed?
Speaker 7: Thanks for having me, And it's funny. I spent some
Speaker 7: hours on the plane last night and I looked at
Speaker 7: the number of hours spent on Biden and Error lawsuits.
Speaker 7: And investigations, and it was over ten years combined of
Speaker 7: man and woman hours spent on these various investigations. What
Speaker 7: I make of that is part of what we've seen
Speaker 7: as this tectonic shift of let's get back to fundamentals
Speaker 7: and let's make sure that if we're investigating different businesses
Speaker 7: that there's really some there there.
Speaker 2: And that really.
Speaker 7: Plays into the whole theme of Crypto Week, which is
Speaker 7: getting to the clarity that the industry has been asking
Speaker 7: for for years.
Speaker 2: You're a former assistant U attorney in the Economics Crime Unit,
Speaker 2: so it's great timing to have you on the program.
Speaker 2: It is crypto week, and what's so interesting on the
Speaker 2: Bloomberg terminal, there's a lot of contradicting reports right There
Speaker 2: was a report last night that bitcoin has a lot
Speaker 2: of room to run because it is Crypto Week and
Speaker 2: everyone's sort of enthusiastic and talking about it. Actually there's
Speaker 2: a bit of profit taking this morning. What is the
Speaker 2: main tailwind right now that you're seeing for this industry.
Speaker 7: The main tailwind is having this basis for institutional capital
Speaker 7: to enter. When you're looking at from the sidelines, there's
Speaker 7: still a ton of institutional capital on the sidelines. Why
Speaker 7: Because although there's been talk for years, as I just said,
Speaker 7: about getting to this clarity, we're really finally seeing that
Speaker 7: momentum actually happen. We're seeing that momentum happen in legislation.
Speaker 7: We're seeing that momentum happen in bipartisan support and voting
Speaker 7: behind these key legislative initiatives.
Speaker 6: And that's key.
Speaker 7: All of the complexity that we saw behind some of
Speaker 7: these cases that have been dismissed that we've just been
Speaker 7: talking about. That complexity is what breeds the insecurity is
Speaker 7: what keeps capital out. They're looking in, they're waiting for
Speaker 7: that moment. They see the promise of the technology, but
Speaker 7: they just can't get their arms around the regulatory insecurity
Speaker 7: they see and they sense. So now we're heading in
Speaker 7: that direction. You know, someone asked me yesterday Crypto Week,
Speaker 7: is this just the crypto industry being loud, And I said, no,
Speaker 7: this is actually coming from Congress. That is a huge difference,
Speaker 7: and that's the momentum shift we're seeing. We have bipartisan
Speaker 7: support with the realization knowing from you know, years of
Speaker 7: work for many in the industry that we need to
Speaker 7: get that clarity and we're heading finally in that correct.
Speaker 2: Direction, Catherine. This week, the House will vote on bills
Speaker 2: to regulate stable coins during Crypto Week. Your expectation quickly
Speaker 2: of what's going to happen.
Speaker 7: Expectation is that stable coin is heading towards signature, that
Speaker 7: momentum has been there. It's you know, it's something, it's
Speaker 7: it's a piece that you can understand. These are you know,
Speaker 7: centralized intermediaries that should be regulated. It's hard to have,
Speaker 7: you know, bipartisan disagreement about that fact. Yes, you can,
Speaker 7: you know, quibble about the language and you know how
Speaker 7: we how we write it up. But I think there's
Speaker 7: no disagreement that this is an area that should be regulated,
Speaker 7: you know, and this is all on the heels of
Speaker 7: the circle IPO. So we can see that moving forward.
Speaker 7: Clarity that'll that hopefully will we'll get through the House,
Speaker 7: and then we'll see what the Senate does with that.
Speaker 6: Will they take clarity.
Speaker 7: Will they create their their own where we've been hearing
Speaker 7: about the Senate version that's going to come out, So
Speaker 7: we'll see whether those two get squashed together or whether
Speaker 7: the Senate will book at clarity. And some of that
Speaker 7: will just depend on the politics that plays out over
Speaker 7: the next few days during the Crypto Week.
Speaker 2: Catherine Dowling a bit wise asset management. Great to have
Speaker 2: you back on the show, Thank you very much. Coming up,
Speaker 2: we go live from Pittsburgh where we speak with the
Speaker 2: US Energy Secretary Chris Wright. That conversation you do not
Speaker 2: want to miss, and it's coming up next. This is
Speaker 2: Bloomberg Tech. Pittsburgh is host to the inaugural Pennsylvania Energy
Speaker 2: and Innovation Summit. The event kicks off today with President
Speaker 2: Trump set to attend in just a few hours. For
Speaker 2: a look at the future of US energy and tech.
Speaker 2: Bloomberg's Tyler Kendall is standing by Tyler, Thanks so much, Ed.
Speaker 8: And I'm pleased to say that I'm joined by the
Speaker 8: US Energy Secretary, Christopher Wright.
Speaker 6: Secretary right, thank you.
Speaker 8: So much for joining Bloomberg. And I want to start
Speaker 8: with one of the main reasons why we're here in Pittsburgh.
Speaker 8: There is this surging demand for energy to help power
Speaker 8: artificial intelligence, and the administration focuses a lot on its
Speaker 8: deregulation agenda. Do you think that you can accomplish your
Speaker 8: goals fast enough to keep up with what has been
Speaker 8: a surge and energy consumption.
Speaker 3: I think we will.
Speaker 9: You're right, it's a challenge. I mean, our the agenda
Speaker 9: of President Trump is to unleash American energy. The last
Speaker 9: four years the Biden administration was more to shackle American energy.
Speaker 9: But you're right, there's rapidly rising demand and what we
Speaker 9: as the government need to do is enable private businesses
Speaker 9: to build the things they want to build and invest
Speaker 9: in the things they want to build. We're not going
Speaker 9: to do this building ourselves, but we're going to enable
Speaker 9: private businesses to do it.
Speaker 8: Well, I'm glad that you brought up private businesses and
Speaker 8: to kind of put a finer point on this idea
Speaker 8: of urgency. We actually heard from Mark Zuckerberg yesterday pledging
Speaker 8: billions that Meta is going to invest in data, but
Speaker 8: it is raising concerns about an energy crisis.
Speaker 6: To fuel it.
Speaker 8: I'm wondering, have you spoken to Zuckerberg or Meta about
Speaker 8: their plans.
Speaker 9: Oh, we speak Meta extensively about their plans, and yeah,
Speaker 9: there's a number of the hyperscalers that have huge investment opportunities.
Speaker 9: We're excited about that.
Speaker 2: This is the.
Speaker 9: Newest energy intensive industry to arise. That's what artificial intelligence
Speaker 9: is energy intensive industry, taking the most sophisticated, most expensive
Speaker 9: form of energy electricity and turning it into intelligence to
Speaker 9: transform more world and protect our nation. So yeah, Meta
Speaker 9: has huge investment plans, as does Amazon and Microsoft and
Speaker 9: Google and the other players in that space, and we
Speaker 9: need all of them will invest.
Speaker 6: It's a few hundred billion dollars this year. In fact,
Speaker 6: you'll hear at the.
Speaker 9: Conference today announcements it was seventy and I think now
Speaker 9: ninety billion dollars just in the state of Pennsylvania.
Speaker 8: When you hear big investments though, and how much energy
Speaker 8: that is going to take, what's your level of concern
Speaker 8: though that there is going to perhaps be such a
Speaker 8: great demand, Can the US really.
Speaker 2: Keep up with it?
Speaker 6: Absolutely?
Speaker 9: United States energy production because of the shale revolution just
Speaker 9: exploded in the last ten.
Speaker 6: Or twelve years.
Speaker 9: Pennsylvania is a massive energy producer today. Pennsylvania exports more
Speaker 9: energy out of its state than any other.
Speaker 6: State except for Texas.
Speaker 9: And Pennsylvania could massively grow its energy production, just doesn't
Speaker 9: have enough pipeline capacity to move that natural gas out
Speaker 9: of the state. So what's going to happen is more
Speaker 9: of that gas or additional gas will be consumed in
Speaker 9: Pennsylvania turned into electricity generated intelligence and keep the United
Speaker 9: States ahead of China in the AI race.
Speaker 8: So I want to talk about oil, and I also
Speaker 8: want to welcome in our audience that has just joined us.
Speaker 8: We are talking to the US Energy Secretary, Christopher Wright.
Speaker 8: I'm Tyler Kendall. I want to show you some of
Speaker 8: these statistics that our analysts have. Bloomberg pulled that the
Speaker 8: US oil rig account has dropped thirteen percent since late February.
Speaker 8: It's in the midst of its longest traction since twenty twenty.
Speaker 8: I know that there were some incentives in the reconciliation package,
Speaker 8: but what further incentives is the administration considering to help
Speaker 8: get forward these oil breaks to continue drilling.
Speaker 2: Mostly it's get out of the way.
Speaker 9: You know, we had the Biden administration had four years
Speaker 9: all of government approach to try to, as they said,
Speaker 9: end fossil fuels. Now, that didn't work very well. We
Speaker 9: went from eighty two percent of American energy coming from
Speaker 9: fossil fuels before Biden took office to eighty two percent
Speaker 9: exactly the same when he left office. Those are just
Speaker 9: simply the energy sources that power our country and our
Speaker 9: world today, but it's get out of the way of
Speaker 9: the marketplace right now. US production has grown so fast
Speaker 9: as has other places in the world that prices are
Speaker 9: maybe at the low end of profitability for producers here,
Speaker 9: so you see a pullback and activity.
Speaker 2: You're going to see with these new.
Speaker 9: Investments and economic growth in the United States, We're going
Speaker 9: to see growth in demand for oil and of course
Speaker 9: that'll probably bump prices back up a little bit keep
Speaker 9: drillers active.
Speaker 8: Well, you mentioned there perhaps a lower price environment. And
Speaker 8: part of this also when we're talking about costs that
Speaker 8: these companies are facing, has to do with tariffs. And
Speaker 8: I wanted to ask you about copper in particular, which
Speaker 8: is essential to data centers and getting energy to help
Speaker 8: power AI. What sort of impact is a fifty percent
Speaker 8: copper terraff set to go into effect on August first,
Speaker 8: going to have when we're talking about the cost for
Speaker 8: energy infrastructure.
Speaker 9: Well, I think the biggest impact of that fifty percent
Speaker 9: terra fund coffer is going to speed up copper mining
Speaker 9: in the United States. We have enormous copper resources here.
Speaker 9: We have some huge minds that have been trying to
Speaker 9: get going for years. We want to get copper production
Speaker 9: growing rapidly in this country. Copper, like steel, is just
Speaker 9: essential to everything that happens in the world.
Speaker 8: Should we expect the energy industry to get some sort
Speaker 8: of tariff car vouts moving forward?
Speaker 9: I believe the President plans no special carveouts. He wants
Speaker 9: to reindust the United States of America.
Speaker 6: There's a lot of tools to do that.
Speaker 9: Make it easy to invest in the United States, make
Speaker 9: it attractive to invest the United States, and tariffs are
Speaker 9: an additional element of that toolbox.
Speaker 8: I'm sure you're talking to industry, though. Is a carve
Speaker 8: out on the table? Are there any negotiations underway for say,
Speaker 8: the oil industry to get a carve out when it
Speaker 8: comes to the equipment that they use in the field,
Speaker 8: like copper or steal for example.
Speaker 9: No discussions right now. We are hearing from the industry,
Speaker 9: and of course this is true. If you incrementally raise
Speaker 9: the cost of projects, that hurts the economics of them.
Speaker 9: We want to do everything we possibly can to maximize
Speaker 9: investments in the United States so jobs and opportunity come
Speaker 9: here to our country.
Speaker 8: Lastly, I just want to ask you a geopolitical question,
Speaker 8: because we did hear from President Trump yesterday threatening one
Speaker 8: hundred percent so called secondary tariff on countries that import
Speaker 8: Russian energy supplies. If that were to go into effect,
Speaker 8: what would that do to prices in the global energy market?
Speaker 9: Something like that would likely drive oil prices up. I
Speaker 9: think President Trump's strong agenda there is to end the
Speaker 9: war in Ukraine. Our hope is that that large pressure
Speaker 9: will have an impact on Russia and we can bring
Speaker 9: just a brutal war in Eastern Europe to an end.
Speaker 9: That's President Trump's goal is prosperity at home and piece abroad,
Speaker 9: and the old formulas weren't working very well in that respect.
Speaker 9: So yeah, President Trump has very different tools, very different
Speaker 9: negotiating skills, and very different level of boldness. I think
Speaker 9: we're going to see tremendous growth in piece abroad and
Speaker 9: prosperity at home.
Speaker 8: All Right, we have to leave it there. US Energy
Speaker 8: Secretary Christopher Wright, thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 8: This has been a conversation here in Pittsburgh on the
Speaker 8: sidelines of the Pennsylvania Energy and Innovation Summit.
Speaker 6: I'll toss it back to you.
Speaker 2: Blue Bogs Tyler Kendo with US Energy Secretary Chris Wright. Okay,
Speaker 2: coming up on the program. We're speaking with Niraptalia, co
Speaker 2: founder and CEO next Tool. That conversation is up next
Speaker 2: Bloomberg Tech. The neighborhood networking service next Door, has launched
Speaker 2: a redesigned app with features aimed at making the platform
Speaker 2: more useful, including safety, local news, and service recommendations. Nextdoor
Speaker 2: CEO president and co founder Nera Avtalia joins us, Now, now, look,
Speaker 2: let's be honest about this. I have a sense of
Speaker 2: deja vu because I think we've done a Nextdoor two
Speaker 2: point oh before, so I'd say this is maybe next
Speaker 2: Door three point zero, But give me the basics of
Speaker 2: why you've done it and what you've done well.
Speaker 6: This is an entirely new Nextdoor.
Speaker 10: So whether we call it two point oh three point
Speaker 10: zero or a ten point zero doesn't matter, because for consumers,
Speaker 10: this is going to feel and operate like a completely
Speaker 10: new app, but grounded in what Nextdoor has always cared about,
Speaker 10: and that is safety, alerts, local and recommendations from trusted neighbors.
Speaker 2: The thing that you and I have discussed a lot
Speaker 2: in the past is the scale of Nextdoor, so forty
Speaker 2: six million active users going forward with this new focus,
Speaker 2: what's the metric that you judge success by, is it
Speaker 2: the user base or something else?
Speaker 6: Well, it is engagement, and you're right.
Speaker 10: We have over one hundred million verified neighbors who've joined Nextdoor,
Speaker 10: but the potential for Nextdoor, we believe, is much greater.
Speaker 10: We can and should be one of those social networks
Speaker 10: that has over a billion users, and so we have
Speaker 10: work to do, and over the last year, the work
Speaker 10: that we've done is to create a better product to
Speaker 10: enable more engagement, which will translate the more users translate
Speaker 10: in more revenue translate into profits, et cetera.
Speaker 2: The thing I hear a lot in the moment in
Speaker 2: the domain of social media is time spent actually including
Speaker 2: generative AI tools. So how do you do the conversion
Speaker 2: somebody that is a registered user or active user to
Speaker 2: somebody that spends a lot of time on the platform,
Speaker 2: but using the new offerings that you've put in place.
Speaker 10: Well, ultimately, the real ambition of any consumer application is
Speaker 10: to turn into a daily habit. And so whether you're
Speaker 10: coming every day for a few minutes or whether you're
Speaker 10: spending hours every single day, that's where we start. And
Speaker 10: today many of our users are only coming weekly or
Speaker 10: several times per week. So the first thing we do
Speaker 10: is we ask ourselves, how can we turn this into
Speaker 10: something that you check the minute that you wake up
Speaker 10: in the morning, and you check before you go to
Speaker 10: bed at night. Because there are so many things happening
Speaker 10: around us, and if things are happening on the neighborhood,
Speaker 10: they should be on next door. So that's been our
Speaker 10: focus and our ambition for the new next Door.
Speaker 2: That makes a very interesting, almost academic question, which is
Speaker 2: if you want next door to be the first thing
Speaker 2: someone looks at when they wake up and the last
Speaker 2: thing before they go to bed, who's next Door's closest competitor.
Speaker 10: Well, it's a great question, and I think our greatest
Speaker 10: competitor is really ourselves.
Speaker 6: When we talk.
Speaker 10: About next store competitive Well, it is, though, because we
Speaker 10: have an ambition and we have an expectation for what
Speaker 10: we can deliver to our users that we have not
Speaker 10: in the past, and so we need to do better.
Speaker 10: We need to build better product, We need to enable
Speaker 10: stronger local community. There is no one else today who's
Speaker 10: built an entire geospatial platform based on where people live.
Speaker 10: There are lots of local services sites, there are lots
Speaker 10: of local news sites, but there's no one who's bringing
Speaker 10: it all together. So if we can do so successfully,
Speaker 10: we can be that indispensable, essential neighborhood network that.
Speaker 2: Brings in the local news component. I found this fascinating.
Speaker 2: Why go into local news. We're in an environment where
Speaker 2: the big social platforms increasingly are pulling back from news
Speaker 2: on the platform by choice. That was something that you're
Speaker 2: sort of jumping into head first.
Speaker 10: Well, there's a great quote from the famous venture capitalist
Speaker 10: Michael Moritz that I just read a couple of weeks ago,
Speaker 10: and the quote is local news is as important to
Speaker 10: a city as air, water, and gas. And we believe
Speaker 10: that at Nextdoor, local news is what compels citizens to
Speaker 10: have civic discourse, it's what helps keep communities stronger. And
Speaker 10: so as part of this new Nextdoor, we're doing something
Speaker 10: that we haven't done in our fourteen year history. We
Speaker 10: are inviting local publishers to come to our platform and
Speaker 10: use it as a distribution mechanism to take their great
Speaker 10: journalism and spread it to our users. And so we
Speaker 10: have thirty five hundred local publishers publishing fifty thousand articles
Speaker 10: every week, and now our users can read that news,
Speaker 10: they can stay in form, they can engage in conversation
Speaker 10: and it's something that isn't happening to your point on
Speaker 10: any of the other social platforms today.
Speaker 2: And by talking about m and A, because these strategies,
Speaker 2: which include local news, there are different mechanisms you can
Speaker 2: use to grow. How do you think about m ANDA
Speaker 2: and moving into the new domains that you want Nextdoor
Speaker 2: to win in.
Speaker 10: Well, every single advisor that I've talked to, either as
Speaker 10: a private company CEO or as a public company CEO,
Speaker 10: has said the same thing. You have to operate your
Speaker 10: company as if it will be around forever as a
Speaker 10: single independent entity. And so that's the way that we
Speaker 10: think about next Door. As a public company, we always
Speaker 10: have to listen to any conversation that comes our way,
Speaker 10: but I will tell you we are one hundred percent
Speaker 10: focused on achieving our potential as a standalone independent entity.
Speaker 2: Near Avtealia, CEO, president and co founder of next Door.
Speaker 2: Back here on the program, coming up deals for AI
Speaker 2: startups continue as Cognition AI agrees to buy the remainder
Speaker 2: of windsor we'll hear from both of the CEOs. Next.
Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Tech. Welcome back to Bloomberg Tech. There
Speaker 2: is so much happening in the AI domain that is
Speaker 2: moving markets as well. Let's start with call we call,
Speaker 2: We've pushing a lot higher. There's news out of Pennsylvania
Speaker 2: this morning that the company's going to invest six billion
Speaker 2: dollars into an AI data center there. Now, remember Pennsylvania,
Speaker 2: Pittsburgh in particular, is all the focus this morning as
Speaker 2: Cene McCormack hosts that inaugural Innovation and Energy Summit. We're
Speaker 2: going to get to a lot more of that. But
Speaker 2: the stock really pushing higher, a lot of momentum for
Speaker 2: coreweed up eight percent. There is our top story, and
Speaker 2: it is a clear top story. Nvidia and AMD shares
Speaker 2: both pushing higher after announcing plans to resume sales of
Speaker 2: some AI chips into the Chinese market. Why they've secured
Speaker 2: assurances from Washington and the administration that they will get
Speaker 2: the approvals and licenses needed to do so. We will
Speaker 2: get much more into that throughout the remainder of this program. Now,
Speaker 2: as Chipstock saw on that news that semiconductors will be
Speaker 2: able to sell more of their product to China, the
Speaker 2: Trump administration is still working out its trading relationship with Beijing.
Speaker 2: Earlier Bloomberg's Amory Horden spoke with Treasury Secretary Scott Besson.
Speaker 2: Listened to this.
Speaker 6: I can tell you one thing that we do not want.
Speaker 5: Is a digital Belton road springing up around the world
Speaker 5: because other countries or China are substituting for our American
Speaker 5: chip manufacturers.
Speaker 11: This is the same chip though, that the Trump administration
Speaker 11: blocked with export controls in April. So why the change
Speaker 11: in policy now, Emery.
Speaker 5: You might say that that was a negotiating chip that
Speaker 5: we used in Geneva and in London.
Speaker 11: So this was part of the trade talks when it
Speaker 11: comes to Washington and Beijing. Yes, was it a quid
Speaker 11: pro quo then, as you said, it wasn't, But was
Speaker 11: it potentially to make sure that you can get the
Speaker 11: licenses when it comes to rare earths.
Speaker 6: I think it was all part of a mosaic.
Speaker 5: They had things we wanted, we have things they wanted,
Speaker 5: and we're in.
Speaker 6: A very good place.
Speaker 5: I expect to meet my Chinese counterpart, the Vice Premiere,
Speaker 5: in the next few weeks.
Speaker 11: So when and where will that needing take place.
Speaker 6: We're still working on that.
Speaker 5: The Chinese leadership has a big conclave at the beginning
Speaker 5: of August, so we're trying to work out whether that
Speaker 5: could be in a third country before or after that conclave.
Speaker 11: Well, the administration released the framework of the Geneva and
Speaker 11: London talks.
Speaker 5: Well, we have released some of it, and I'll tell
Speaker 5: you that now having settled on tariffs on the export controls,
Speaker 5: we can move on to the next stage of talks.
Speaker 5: And I think it's very important both for the global economy,
Speaker 5: for the US economy and for the Chinese economy for
Speaker 5: US to move on and talk about China opening its
Speaker 5: markets and the increase domestic and consumer production.
Speaker 6: There.
Speaker 11: Are you hoping to get to that next phase before
Speaker 11: August twelfth, when that's currently the daytunt between these two economies.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Look, I think we're in a very good place,
Speaker 5: and I tell market participants not to worry about August twelfth.
Speaker 2: Shower's Treasury Secretary Scott Besson speaking with Bloomberg's Amory Hoard.
Speaker 2: And let's get back to Pittsburgh where the inaugural Pennsylvania
Speaker 2: Energy and Innovation summits underway, and we're going to speak
Speaker 2: with AI and Crypto taking center stage of the energy
Speaker 2: and its Digital future joining us now delighted, Say David Sachs,
Speaker 2: White House, AI and cryptos, our senior policy advisor to
Speaker 2: the President. David, welcome back. It's great to have you
Speaker 2: as always on the program. The focus is good in Vidia,
Speaker 2: thank you, David. The focus is in video and AMD's
Speaker 2: ability to now sell in a limited way chips back
Speaker 2: into the Chinese market. Just your reaction generally to that, Well, we.
Speaker 12: Still have a policy of not selling our state of
Speaker 12: the art advanced the man conductors to China, and the
Speaker 12: Age twenty is not that it's a heavily deprecated chip,
Speaker 12: and that's why the Biden administration allowed the sale of
Speaker 12: the Age twenty to China.
Speaker 6: And this is a continuation.
Speaker 12: Of that policy in the larger rubric of the trade
Speaker 12: negotiations that Secretary Besson was talking to you about. So
Speaker 12: this is a heavily deprecated chip. I think that, like
Speaker 12: Secretary Besson said, there are some things that China wants
Speaker 12: from us, or are the things we want from China,
Speaker 12: and this is all part of the overall trade negotiation.
Speaker 2: David, you advised the president on AI policy as well
Speaker 2: as cryptopolicy. Do you have any sense of when he
Speaker 2: met with Jensen One last week at the White House.
Speaker 2: What case mister Wong made to the President that it
Speaker 2: was the right thing to get the American technology stacked
Speaker 2: back into China.
Speaker 12: Well, Jenson has been making the case publicly for competing
Speaker 12: in China, and I think there are a lot of
Speaker 12: merits to the argument. If you look at developments over
Speaker 12: the past year, Huawei has advanced very rapidly. They have
Speaker 12: a new technology called cloud Matrix, which which networks together
Speaker 12: three hundred and eighty four of their Huawei as send chips. Now,
Speaker 12: the Huawei chip is not as good as the Nvidia chip.
Speaker 12: The Nvidia chip is three times more powerful. But if
Speaker 12: you network together enough of those chips, you can route
Speaker 12: force your way to a similar kind of result. And
Speaker 12: that is what Huawei has been developing, is this cloud
Speaker 12: Matrix three eighty four. And there have been reports, including
Speaker 12: from Bloomberg, that they've started exporting that technology or they've
Speaker 12: been seeking to export it. So Huawei is becoming much
Speaker 12: more competitive. And if you give the whole Chinese market
Speaker 12: to Huawei, it's a huge subsidy for their R and
Speaker 12: D R and it basically forces Chinese companies that might
Speaker 12: be willing to use AGE twenty to use the Huawei
Speaker 12: chip and to basically figure out basically to figure out
Speaker 12: the bugs, work out the kinks of the cloud matrix system,
Speaker 12: and help Huawei scale that up. So I think there
Speaker 12: is a compelling argument here that you just don't want
Speaker 12: to hand Huawei the entire Chinese market when in Nvidia
Speaker 12: is capable of competing for a big slice of it
Speaker 12: worth a deprecated, less capable chip. Again, we're not selling
Speaker 12: our latest greatest chips to China, but we can deprive
Speaker 12: Huawei of basically having this giant market share in China
Speaker 12: that they can then use to scale up and compete
Speaker 12: with us globally. So I think this policy is nuanced
Speaker 12: and I think it makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 2: The reporter you're referring to that Bloomberg had was that
Speaker 2: Huawei was going out to some of the Gulf nations
Speaker 2: and also some of the Southeast Asian nations and offering
Speaker 2: prior generations of their chip, but also the cloud matrix
Speaker 2: that you mentioned. The concern being that in dealing with
Speaker 2: third countries, you know that be some Chinese access to
Speaker 2: other nations technology. How involved have you been, David in
Speaker 2: these kinds of talks and in framing that the presidents
Speaker 2: thinking that actually just having direct access to lower performance
Speaker 2: compute is okay with China right now.
Speaker 12: Well, look, I don't want to I'm not going to
Speaker 12: discuss what I talked to the President about, but I
Speaker 12: mean I can tell you what I think, which is
Speaker 12: the Bloomberg story discussed hoh. Huawei was basically trying to
Speaker 12: make available the Huawei Assen chip, which is their current chip,
Speaker 12: which is basically put together in a rack system with
Speaker 12: cloud matrix, to create a viable competitor to in Nvidia,
Speaker 12: and I think it is a viable competitor. I think
Speaker 12: in Vidia and AMD and other American companies have a
Speaker 12: better product. But if we don't compete across the world,
Speaker 12: then we will hand the market to China. And one
Speaker 12: of the reasons that the President went to the Gold
Speaker 12: States on that trip is to encourage business relations between
Speaker 12: the US and the Gold State. He signed massive investment
Speaker 12: deals and one of the deals that we signed was
Speaker 12: this new AI Acceleration Partnership where we want to create
Speaker 12: a pathway for the Gold States like UEE to buy
Speaker 12: American technology, to buy American and to create data centers
Speaker 12: on the American tech stack and I can tell you
Speaker 12: that I don't quite understand why this has proven to
Speaker 12: be so controversial in Washington. But where these nations, like
Speaker 12: the Gold States, they have two choices. They can go
Speaker 12: with an American technology or they can go with the
Speaker 12: Chinese technology. And if you don't let them buy the
Speaker 12: American technology, you're pushing them into the arms of China.
Speaker 12: And a lot of people said, well, China won't be
Speaker 12: ready to sell for years, But now we see that
Speaker 12: there are reports that Huawei is out there trying to
Speaker 12: sell and export the Huawei as sent chip. So I
Speaker 12: think it's very important that we enable our American companies
Speaker 12: to compete in the global market, that we don't tie
Speaker 12: their hands, that we don't hobble them, because again, this
Speaker 12: is zero sum game. That market share will either belong
Speaker 12: to our companies like Nvidia, or it's going to belong
Speaker 12: to Chinese companies like Huawei. There's a very simple test
Speaker 12: for this. Just look at market share. If five years
Speaker 12: from now we look across the world and we see
Speaker 12: that in Nvidia or other American companies have eighty percent
Speaker 12: more market share, it means that we won the AI race.
Speaker 12: But if we look across the world in five years
Speaker 12: and see that Huawei has eighty percent market share, then
Speaker 12: it means that we lost the AI race. So I
Speaker 12: think it's very important that we do everything we can
Speaker 12: to encourage American exports to be sure. We can name
Speaker 12: our security standards. But this is a very easy trust
Speaker 12: but verify situation. The chips that we're talking about are
Speaker 12: really mainframe computers. They're eight feet tall, they're thirty six
Speaker 12: hundred pounds. It's very easy to send inspectors into data
Speaker 12: centers and count the server racks to make sure that
Speaker 12: they're where they're supposed to be, so the security concerns
Speaker 12: can be addressed. I understand that there are some security concerns,
Speaker 12: but I think they're very easily handled, And what we
Speaker 12: need to be doing is making sure that we win
Speaker 12: the AI race globally by making American technology the global
Speaker 12: standard and not letting not creating a Huawei Bolton Road.
Speaker 2: Live on Bloomberg Television and radio worldwide, we're in conversation
Speaker 2: with David Sack, Senior policy advisor for AI and Crypto
Speaker 2: the AI and cryptos David I wrote my newslet earlier
Speaker 2: this week about the analogy that Jensen Wong has been
Speaker 2: using the American Technology Stack should be akin to the
Speaker 2: US dollar as the world's reserve currency. That's how he
Speaker 2: would like the administration to approach it. Do you share
Speaker 2: that view and see some truth in that analogy.
Speaker 12: Well, here's the way I see it, and this is
Speaker 12: really I think a Silicon Valley view, because I'm ultimately
Speaker 12: I've been a founder and investor in Silicon Valley for
Speaker 12: twenty five years. And what we see is that the
Speaker 12: winning technology companies are always the ones that create the
Speaker 12: biggest ecosystem. They have the most developers on their platform,
Speaker 12: they have the most apps in their app store, and
Speaker 12: so they work very, very hard to create a partner ecosystem.
Speaker 12: And I think that the United States needs to do
Speaker 12: something similar with the American Technology Stack. We want the
Speaker 12: most other countries using our technology because again it's a
Speaker 12: zero sum game. And it's not just the chips, it's
Speaker 12: the operating system that runs on those chips, it's the
Speaker 12: AI models that then are run in these data sets.
Speaker 12: We want all of that to be American made and
Speaker 12: American powered, and look to be sure there are security
Speaker 12: concerns and we can address them. I don't think that's
Speaker 12: that hard, but if we hobble our American companies and
Speaker 12: don't let them participate in the global market again, we
Speaker 12: are creating We're playing into China's arms and playing into
Speaker 12: their digital soult road. So I think, to me, this is.
Speaker 6: A pretty easy question.
Speaker 12: I think we do want American technology to be the
Speaker 12: global standard.
Speaker 6: It is a little bit like the dollar.
Speaker 12: There is a network effect there. The reason why everyone
Speaker 12: loves the dollars because they know that everybody.
Speaker 6: Else will accept it as well.
Speaker 12: So we do want to have the strongest dollar, We
Speaker 12: want to be the reserve currency, and we do want
Speaker 12: our technology to be the global standard.
Speaker 2: David Bluemberg reported this morning that on July twenty third,
Speaker 2: the President's going to speak in an event titled Winning
Speaker 2: the AI Race, which you and the rest of the
Speaker 2: All In Pod team will be posting. Essentially, I guess
Speaker 2: that's going to be a moment where we'll have a
Speaker 2: more a fuller sense of what the President and this
Speaker 2: administration's big picture AI policy is going to be, what
Speaker 2: the big goals are going to be.
Speaker 6: That's right.
Speaker 12: That's the President will be giving a keynote address at
Speaker 12: a one day AI conference in Washington, DC on July
Speaker 12: twenty third. It's co hosted by all In and Hill
Speaker 12: and Valley Form, which is also a DC and Silicon
Speaker 12: Valley policy group, and the President, I think, will be
Speaker 12: giving his first major address on the topic of artificial
Speaker 12: intelligence building on. There are mark studies giving here in
Speaker 12: Pennsylvania today which are also AI related and related to
Speaker 12: energy investment, the kinds of investments we have to make
Speaker 12: to power the next generation of AI.
Speaker 2: David, you've been speaking there in Pittsburgh this morning. What's
Speaker 2: the main focus on the energy side of this AI story?
Speaker 2: Energy security is a national security priority, but just simply
Speaker 2: whether or enough whether we will have enough energy resources
Speaker 2: to power the goals of META and the other hyperscalers.
Speaker 12: Well, Pennsylvania is a huge energy producing state. I think
Speaker 12: it's our second biggest energy producing state. They have abundant
Speaker 12: natural gas, which I think in the near term is
Speaker 12: going to be the power source for these data centers.
Speaker 6: I think in about.
Speaker 12: Five years we could start seeing nuclear scale up, and
Speaker 12: the administration believes in that too. We want on all
Speaker 12: of the above approach, But Pennsylvania is very big in
Speaker 12: natural gas and there are major investments being announced here
Speaker 12: for more basically fracking for more grid infrastructure, for more
Speaker 12: power generation. All those things are needed to power data centers.
Speaker 12: AI runs on GPUs that are incredibly power intensive, and
Speaker 12: those these data centers in the future are going to
Speaker 12: need more power. And the one area I think where
Speaker 12: America is a little bit behind. I mean, I think
Speaker 12: we're winning the AI race pretty much at every level
Speaker 12: of the stack, except that the size of our power
Speaker 12: grid has not increased very much over the past decade.
Speaker 12: If you go over to China, they've roughly double the
Speaker 12: size of their electric grid over the past decade, where
Speaker 12: ours is only gone up by a couple of percent
Speaker 12: a year. So this is an area where we need
Speaker 12: to make major new investments. And the President is coming
Speaker 12: to Pennsylvania today to announce many of those investments. And
Speaker 12: I think you're gonna this has been a major priority
Speaker 12: the administration, and I think you're going to see.
Speaker 3: A lot a lot more of this White House.
Speaker 2: AI and cryptos are David Sex, Thank you very much.
Speaker 2: Coming back on Bloomberg Tech. Okay, coming up deals for
Speaker 2: AI startups continue. As Cognition AI agrees to buy the
Speaker 2: remainder of Windsurf, We're going to hear from both of
Speaker 2: those CEOs. Next, this is Bloomberg Tech. Internally, the companies
Speaker 2: were saying, it's the perfect fit. What happened? Why did
Speaker 2: it happen? Windsurf CEO Jeff Wang and Cognition AI CEO
Speaker 2: Scott Woo join us now live on Bloomberg Tech. Scott,
Speaker 2: I'll start with you with that simple question, how did
Speaker 2: all of this come together? Please?
Speaker 13: Yes, absolutely, And so I think we all found the
Speaker 13: news around this found out about the news around the
Speaker 13: same time on Friday afternoon, and we were looking at
Speaker 13: this and saying, Wow, there's there's such a clean fit
Speaker 13: of all of these things, you know, both in terms
Speaker 13: of kind of the products, which is Windsurf is one
Speaker 13: of the leading IDEs, Cognition builds Devin the first AI
Speaker 13: software engineer Agent, and so there's a clear offering of
Speaker 13: ID and agent. At the same time, both of us
Speaker 13: have a very clear enterprise focus in terms of how
Speaker 13: we do business and even kind of the customers that
Speaker 13: we have, the team that we have and so on,
Speaker 13: and it just seems like such a great fit.
Speaker 2: Jeff, what I was hearing over the weekend is that
Speaker 2: some of the investors on both sides might have played
Speaker 2: a role in sort of brokering that this was a
Speaker 2: good idea? Is there some truth to that?
Speaker 14: Actually, the way that the other deal panned out was
Speaker 14: there it should have been a clean cut. So there
Speaker 14: were kind of like conversations going. But you know, as
Speaker 14: job as interim CEO, you have to find a lot
Speaker 14: of options for the future of the company, and I
Speaker 14: think after talking to Scott it was it was a
Speaker 14: done deal. In my mind, it was just a perfect fit.
Speaker 2: Scott. What's so interesting is like the conviction that Cognition had,
Speaker 2: Why were you able to move so quickly and just say,
Speaker 2: you know what, this is a great deal for us.
Speaker 13: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Look, I think we are in the
Speaker 13: AI code space. I think Winter is a very kind
Speaker 13: of different complimentary offering in this space. But naturally, you know,
Speaker 13: we see it. We've tried the product ourselves, We've used
Speaker 13: it a lot, and it helps us just get to
Speaker 13: conviction very quickly. And Jeff and I talked and I
Speaker 13: think especially with everything going on, it was clear that,
Speaker 13: you know, the sooner that we could get to an outcome,
Speaker 13: I think the better for the team and for the
Speaker 13: customers as well.
Speaker 2: What role did did Google or even Barren play in
Speaker 2: this Jeff, we're trying to unpick a series of deals
Speaker 2: and chronologies that kind of happened very quickly.
Speaker 14: I have to say that the whole Google situation was
Speaker 14: meant to be a clean cut.
Speaker 3: So everything at Windsorf was intact.
Speaker 14: The product, the IP, the go to market team, the
Speaker 14: marketing team, even the enterprise engineering team, and it just
Speaker 14: so happened that these are the components that Cognition was
Speaker 14: looking for. So I wanted to just be clear, like
Speaker 14: it was structured in a way where it was a clean.
Speaker 3: Cut from Google.
Speaker 2: What was the mood Wins Jeff. On Friday when the
Speaker 2: Google licensing and at Quahia was confirmed.
Speaker 14: Yeah, I had to do an all hands to the
Speaker 14: team and I had to tell them the news, and
Speaker 14: I had to say that was probably the hardest day
Speaker 14: for two hundred and fifty people at the company's lives,
Speaker 14: and I was immediately in action. I don't think I
Speaker 14: slept maybe three hours over the last the next seventy
Speaker 14: two hours, and my only goal was to get the
Speaker 14: best solution for the company. And I think now that
Speaker 14: we're with Cognition, everything is intact. We have an amazing
Speaker 14: core engineering team with Cognition now and we also have Windsurf.
Speaker 14: The products still everything is the same, and now we
Speaker 14: also have Devin and then we have the.
Speaker 3: Four ground agent and the background agent.
Speaker 14: This is like an amazing combo for the company.
Speaker 2: Scott, would would you kindly go over the basics of
Speaker 2: the terms of the deal, like was this a cash.
Speaker 3: Or stop deal?
Speaker 2: It started Friday and by the beginning of this week
Speaker 2: it was done.
Speaker 13: Yeah, yeah, yeah. What I can say is that wind
Speaker 13: Surf employees are you know, every single winter employee has
Speaker 13: an immediate consideration as part of this deal. And then
Speaker 13: from here on out we are all just one team,
Speaker 13: and so wind Surf employees are now part of Cognition.
Speaker 13: We were working on this together and excited to get moving.
Speaker 2: When I first learned about Windsurf, it was in the
Speaker 2: form of Codium and Jeff this questions you and Varren
Speaker 2: and then the big news was open AI and Windsurf.
Speaker 2: When did you kind of get the sense that that
Speaker 2: wasn't going to happen. I know we're going back over
Speaker 2: history a little bit here, but actually, you know, in
Speaker 2: a few years time I might look back and go, wow,
Speaker 2: that was a pretty old series of events. So when
Speaker 2: did you look at it and say, okay, open AI
Speaker 2: and Windsurf's not going to happen. What happens next?
Speaker 14: I think it was time so open Aye. Kind of
Speaker 14: the rumors broke like three months ago. And if you
Speaker 14: think about it, like if three months later there's no
Speaker 14: progress and there's still drama, a lot of it is
Speaker 14: reported in the news, I'll say that is a pretty
Speaker 14: good signal that things are not progressing as fast as
Speaker 14: you'd like. And I remember the founders of our company
Speaker 14: were kind of like locked in a conference room for
Speaker 14: I think six weeks, and I kind of got the
Speaker 14: sense that things are probably going to shift in another direction.
Speaker 2: Scott, I'd love to talk about technology for a moment,
Speaker 2: if that's okay. What is it that that Windsurf and
Speaker 2: cognition can do together?
Speaker 13: Absolutely, and so wind Surface, you know, in one line
Speaker 13: is an ide that makes it so that a developer
Speaker 13: when they're at the keyboard can go faster and produce
Speaker 13: code faster. And Devin is an AI software engineering agent
Speaker 13: that you can.
Speaker 3: Delegate tasks to.
Speaker 13: And there is a lot of national integration of how
Speaker 13: we can work together. You can imagine kicking off the
Speaker 13: agent to go do kind of a first pass at
Speaker 13: a project and then coming in and doing the finishing
Speaker 13: touches yourself. With Windsurf, you can imagine using the ide
Speaker 13: to plan and then once you have the task sorted out,
Speaker 13: to be able to hand it off. And we're super
Speaker 13: excited because I think both of us have always been
Speaker 13: very focused on making software engineering work in.
Speaker 3: The real world, you know.
Speaker 13: And it's in the last few days actually, at Cognition,
Speaker 13: for example, we've announced that both Goldman Sachs and City
Speaker 13: Bank have been rolling out Devin to their teams. Windsurf
Speaker 13: has been working with JP Morgan and similarly, you know,
Speaker 13: when we go down the customer list, when we go
Speaker 13: down the sectors, we found.
Speaker 6: A lot of natural partnership.
Speaker 2: Jeff I got the sense from reading but also speaking
Speaker 2: to people over the weekend that kind of post Google,
Speaker 2: the remainder of the Windsurf team felt a little bit
Speaker 2: left out in the cold. But on the other hand,
Speaker 2: that's a great team, you know. Was there a moment
Speaker 2: where you kind of thought, okay, we can carry on
Speaker 2: a loan or did the Cognition part of it just say,
Speaker 2: you know what, we can be better by building with them.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 14: So the funny thing is there's no way I can
Speaker 14: tell the team at the all hands that, oh, we're
Speaker 14: just gonna go.
Speaker 3: Get acquired, right.
Speaker 14: The first thing I had to do is make sure
Speaker 14: there's achievable plan and it's not as exciting as before
Speaker 14: of breaking frontier AI models, training and getting to the
Speaker 14: next big thing. It was kind of picking the safe
Speaker 14: route and making sure everybody could believe in a route
Speaker 14: that we can do. And on the side, obviously it
Speaker 14: was what is the best company that we can work
Speaker 14: with and how can I get in touch with them?
Speaker 14: But I had to keep all the options open there
Speaker 14: and Cognition obviously was the best fit for us.
Speaker 2: Scott, I think I'm right in saying you've kind of
Speaker 2: said on social media that this is a real acquisition,
Speaker 2: but I would be grateful very quickly from each of you.
Speaker 2: Your reflection on what's happened with all of these acquahis
Speaker 2: and what you think the net results of it is.
Speaker 13: Yeah, you know, I think it started to come up
Speaker 13: more in the market and I think it's frankly, it's
Speaker 13: a bit disappointing, which is to your point exactly what
Speaker 13: you said. You know, there are a lot of great
Speaker 13: teams that have gotten left behind, and I think in
Speaker 13: our case, I think you know, we were huge fans
Speaker 13: of the Windsurf team from the beginning, and we saw
Speaker 13: an opportunity to work together.
Speaker 2: And Jeff, we just have twenty seconds, but that your thoughts.
Speaker 14: I think me and Scott might have just invented a
Speaker 14: new model for what's going on in the market right now.
Speaker 3: If there's acquahera is going on, there's a lot of
Speaker 3: valuable pieces left.
Speaker 14: And I don't want to say pieces, but like even
Speaker 14: what was left at Windsurf was incredible. And the other
Speaker 14: important thing to note is all the investors bounder shares
Speaker 14: were wiped off the cap table. It was an entirely
Speaker 14: employee owned company, so a lot of people were very
Speaker 14: happy yesterday, I think is the summary I'll say.
Speaker 3: But this might be the new model going forward.
Speaker 2: Jeff see wins Skullboys a cognition. We got it all in.
Speaker 2: I'm really grateful to you buy Thank you. That does
Speaker 2: it for this edition of balloon Berg Jet Tach. But
Speaker 2: I've got to check out the Paul. You know where
Speaker 2: to find it online on all the Bloomberg platforms. Back
Speaker 2: in San Francisco. Unexpectedly, this is Bloomberg Tech,