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Speaker 1: Then I told him, you know, you're not going to

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Speaker 1: see your dad for a while until he's out of

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Speaker 1: the situation. It's just not healthy. And he said, well, Mom,

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Speaker 1: do this podcast. Let's hope he hears it. Let's get

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Speaker 1: him out of it.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to forgive me for I have followed. I'm

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Speaker 2: Jess Cassavetto and I'm Kalia Gray.

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Speaker 3: Our series explores the story of Robert schin, the LA

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Speaker 3: based Chakina Church and seven M Films.

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Speaker 2: This week, we'll be speaking with Angela Morales, former wife

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Speaker 2: to James B. Dash Derek.

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Speaker 3: Angela and Vidash were actually involved in an another high

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Speaker 3: control cult like environment before Chakaina, So today we're going

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Speaker 3: to be speaking more on their experience in the former church,

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Speaker 3: their marriage, and what that was like for her leaving

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Speaker 3: another high control group similar to seven M. I could

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Speaker 3: feel already that I'm sure this is retriggering almost in

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Speaker 3: a way, to see all of these things coming out

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Speaker 3: about her ex husband, the father of her child, and

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Speaker 3: to hear him going through another situation exactly like the

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Speaker 3: one that she went through prior.

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Speaker 2: So now our conversation with Angela, Angela, thank you so

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Speaker 2: much for being a part of this podcast and sitting

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Speaker 2: down and chatting with us today. We really appreciate you.

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Speaker 1: Oh, thank you for having me.

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Speaker 2: How are you feeling today?

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Speaker 1: I'm good today. Tired from working overnight, but I'm good.

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Speaker 2: Are you a nurse?

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Speaker 1: Not yet? So I finished school once I passed the

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Speaker 1: inclex and I'll officially be licensed nurse. Yeah, the school

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Speaker 1: was the hardest part. So as long as that's done.

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Speaker 4: You did the hardest part already. You prepared.

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Speaker 2: So what prompted you to speak out on social media

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Speaker 2: when all of this kind of came about?

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Speaker 1: So when everything first came out, I took some time

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Speaker 1: to myself. At first, it was really hard to watch

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Speaker 1: the video about Miranda that her family put out. It

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Speaker 1: was very similar to the situation that I was in.

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Speaker 1: I shared it with my family, who was also involved

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Speaker 1: in the church that I was in, so we kind

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Speaker 1: of dissected it together, and I don't know, I think

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Speaker 1: it triggered something in me and I just responded to something,

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Speaker 1: and I guess people kind of put the pieces together

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Speaker 1: and figured out who I was. And then I started

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Speaker 1: talking to Katie without a crystal ball, and so I

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Speaker 1: kept in contact with her a little bit. But because

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Speaker 1: Jada was younger. I kind of wanted to stay behind

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Speaker 1: the scenes at the time because he had an idea,

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Speaker 1: but there was only so much he could understand.

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Speaker 4: At the time. How old is Jayden?

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Speaker 1: Now he's thirteen? Now he's thirteen?

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Speaker 4: Oh, my goodness.

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Speaker 2: And Jaden is your son? Yeah, So can you tell

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Speaker 2: us a little bit about your past and the experience?

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Speaker 2: So why watching that Instagram live with the Wilkings triggered

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Speaker 2: something for you?

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Speaker 1: So I went to a church when I was about

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Speaker 1: fourteen fifteen, and I was there for almost ten years,

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Speaker 1: and it was pretty much the same thing, just a

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Speaker 1: different church, different pastor, and it really affected my family

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Speaker 1: in ways that we're still trying to recover from. So

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Speaker 1: when I saw how it affected Miranda's family, it really

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Speaker 1: pushed something inside me.

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Speaker 4: Right, how did you initially meet James.

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Speaker 1: I went to the church when I was really young,

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Speaker 1: and the pastor had this thing where he took in

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Speaker 1: all the young mostly women, and try to mentor them,

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Speaker 1: and that's what he did with me. He wanted to

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Speaker 1: mentor me. I was really shy and I was really

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Speaker 1: intimidated for some reason by older men. But he told

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Speaker 1: my mom that God told him he had to be

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Speaker 1: my mentor, so I had to hang out with him

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Speaker 1: one on one so many different times. I was so uncomfortable,

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Speaker 1: so many inappropriate things that I look back and I'm like, hey,

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Speaker 1: that wasn't right. First of all, all the pump dancers

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Speaker 1: went there. It was full of dancers and everything, so

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Speaker 1: there were other guys that were interested, but he made

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Speaker 1: sure to keep everyone away. But there was one instance

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Speaker 1: where we're alone and he said, you know, would you

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Speaker 1: ever date me? Or do you think I'm too old?

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Speaker 1: And I just looked disgusted. I was like, oh, you're

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Speaker 1: too old. And after that he kind of just like okay,

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Speaker 1: pushed me on to James. When I look back, I

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Speaker 1: think the guys were like competition to him in a

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Speaker 1: way because all the girls liked the dancers, so he

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Speaker 1: set a lot of them up. Like a lot of

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Speaker 1: the dancers at the time were married. There was a

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Speaker 1: group of wives with the group of comp dancers. So

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Speaker 1: after I kind of said that I wasn't interested in

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Speaker 1: the pastor, I was set up with James, and God

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Speaker 1: said that was my husband and I had to be

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Speaker 1: with him or my life would be cursed. Wow. So

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Speaker 1: that's how that started.

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Speaker 2: What was the church called if you don't mind me asking.

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Speaker 1: So his mom and his stepdad had the church and

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Speaker 1: for them it was Hospitality Church of God in Christ.

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Speaker 1: But through that he ran his own little services under

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Speaker 1: PhD ministries. So I was kind of leaked together, but

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Speaker 1: he was in charge of the PhD ministry, didn't.

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Speaker 2: He get arrested and then he started a new church

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Speaker 2: in California. He had had a church in high controlled

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Speaker 2: group somewhere else, was arrested and then came here and

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Speaker 2: started PhD.

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Speaker 1: So he started an organ. It wasn't until we left

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Speaker 1: the church that we found out he was a registered

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Speaker 1: sex offender. And my mom had to go back and

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Speaker 1: forth from organ to get the actual court records, and

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Speaker 1: it was a really hard process. The only thing we

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Speaker 1: were able to do was to get him registered in

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Speaker 1: California as well. Now he's no longer registered. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if there's an expiration or I don't know how

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Speaker 1: that works. Whatever happened happened in Orgon. It was so

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Speaker 1: long ago, and I remember we were in court because

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Speaker 1: they were trying to sue us for a defamation of character.

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Speaker 4: Oh my goodness, and that.

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Speaker 1: Came up that he was a registered sex offender, and

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Speaker 1: she said, well it was an Oregon and not here.

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Speaker 1: And I just looked at her and I said, there

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Speaker 1: are children in that church and so many women, and

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Speaker 1: you are okay with this as a woman of God,

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Speaker 1: Like what is wrong with you? So it was common

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Speaker 1: knowledge to his family, and a lot of his family

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Speaker 1: were there. They just never said.

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Speaker 4: Anything hearing even just you recounted how many like similarities

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Speaker 4: there are, even just like saying, oh, there's like the

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Speaker 4: group of wives that were with the Crumpers even in Chicaina,

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Speaker 4: Like we had the joke of oh, we're the crump

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Speaker 4: wives like with me and like the girls like and

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Speaker 4: so we're like, oh crumb wives, Like we had our

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Speaker 4: own intro and everything. And so it's just crazy how

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Speaker 4: it just sounds like history repeating itself. People being hurt,

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Speaker 4: families being hurt. And I'm so sorry for everything that

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Speaker 4: you had to go through, because especially at a young age,

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Speaker 4: when those are like your formidable years, when you're just

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Speaker 4: learning about the world and what things that we think

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Speaker 4: are like normal because we're we don't know any better,

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Speaker 4: we're so young, And then you get older and you

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Speaker 4: look back and you're like, wait, that was not how

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Speaker 4: that was supposed to go. So tell me more about

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Speaker 4: your relationship with James, Like when you guys were first

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Speaker 4: paired together, what was it like being with him in

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Speaker 4: that environment?

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Speaker 1: So me and James did not match at all. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but because you know, God said we have to be together. Supposedly,

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Speaker 1: we're really genuinely trying to go by the Bible. We

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Speaker 1: studied it all the time. Yeah, So when we found

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Speaker 1: out we were for each other, we kind of just

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Speaker 1: dated like everyone else was dating at the church at

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Speaker 1: the time, so it wasn't anything out of the ordinary.

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Speaker 1: And then I remember we did break up once and

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Speaker 1: the pastor made a big deal about it in service,

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Speaker 1: saying that, you know, if we don't listen to God,

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Speaker 1: we're going to be cursed forever because there's only one

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Speaker 1: person in the whole world for you. And so we

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Speaker 1: ended up getting back together and we got married. Everything

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Speaker 1: on the church was so towards the wives. You had

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Speaker 1: to learn how to be a good wife, You had

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Speaker 1: to submit to your husband, you had to submit to

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Speaker 1: the pastor. Everything was so focused on that, And now

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Speaker 1: that I look back, it's because he was dating multiple

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Speaker 1: people in the church. So that was our life James

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Speaker 1: had the last say. He listened to everything that the

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Speaker 1: pastor said. Now, anybody that knows James, he's not a

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Speaker 1: bad guy. It's just he will follow blindly. If he

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Speaker 1: thinks somebody is speaking for God and there's no telling

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Speaker 1: him different, he will go with it no matter what

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Speaker 1: anyone else says. So that's how it was at the church.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's something that Kevin has said about too, is

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Speaker 4: that he really loves God. And I think people who

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Speaker 4: have ulterior motives they'll jump on that easily because you

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Speaker 4: can see how devoted he is to God, to his

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Speaker 4: religion in general. But how long were you guys together?

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Speaker 1: Almost seven years? We were married for almost three of them.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, oh wow.

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Speaker 2: When did you guys take the relationship to the next

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Speaker 2: level and you decided that you wanted to have a kid?

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Speaker 1: We never even talked about It's just the next step.

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Speaker 1: A lot of the Crump wifes got pregnant the same time,

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Speaker 1: so all of our sons are around the same age.

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Speaker 1: But it was just the next thing to do, I guess.

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Speaker 4: So when did you and Bidash separate?

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Speaker 1: It was a little after Jaden turned one. Jada was

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Speaker 1: actually the reason I left. I always say that he's

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Speaker 1: the child that saved me, and then my daughter is

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Speaker 1: the child I never got to me. So we're very close.

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Speaker 1: So they both saved me in different ways.

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Speaker 4: I feel like that's so beautiful.

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Speaker 3: After the break, we continue our conversation with Angela. This

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Speaker 3: is forgive me for I have followed. We'll be right back.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to forgive me for I have followed. Now

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Speaker 2: back to our conversation with Angela. To jump back a

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Speaker 2: little bit, Angela, you mentioned that you guys had separated

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Speaker 2: about a year after Jaden was born. How did that happen,

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Speaker 2: What was the separation like, and when did you decide

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Speaker 2: to leave that church?

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Speaker 1: Okay, so there was one service. Jada was a newborn.

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Speaker 1: We were still in service till three or four in

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Speaker 1: the morning. So he started crying. I got up to

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Speaker 1: take him to the restroom. I was like one or

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Speaker 1: two in the morning, and I fed him and I

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Speaker 1: came back into the church, and right away, the pastor,

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Speaker 1: I don't even like calling him a pastor. Right away

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Speaker 1: he called me out in front of everybody and said

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Speaker 1: that my son had a demon in him because he

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Speaker 1: made me miss an important part of service. And everybody

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Speaker 1: just gave me such judgmental looks and started saying I

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Speaker 1: was a bad mom, and I was like, that was

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Speaker 1: the last straw, Like I was the first chid of

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Speaker 1: my family to leave the church, and I turned into

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Speaker 1: the devil. James wanted to divorce me. I did not care.

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Speaker 1: I left the church and my marriage the same week,

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Speaker 1: and you know, family that were going to the church,

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Speaker 1: A lot of people didn't understand. I've always known a

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Speaker 1: lot about the pastor because I was very close to

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Speaker 1: people that were involved with him, so I knew very

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Speaker 1: intimate details about him, even down to his bedroom looked like.

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Speaker 1: So once I left and stopped going, I was able

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Speaker 1: to start piecing things together. Well you know, hey, that's

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Speaker 1: not right. That's not right either. So I started speaking

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Speaker 1: up about it. And there were a couple of friends.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys have heard of Tonica

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Speaker 1: and her sisters, So that was Chess's ex wife. We

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Speaker 1: were very close, and I remember going to dinner one

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Speaker 1: time and they said a story that matched something that

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Speaker 1: I knew about the pastor, and I was like, wait,

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Speaker 1: you guys know, and we let everything out. We're at

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Speaker 1: dinner for my birthday that night, and we talked for hours,

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Speaker 1: We cried, We let everything out. I went home that

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Speaker 1: night and I told my mom everything. I had years

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Speaker 1: worth of things that I was bottled up, and the

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Speaker 1: only person that knew was James, so he also knew

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Speaker 1: all these details. But his reaction to everything was, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, he's still a man, so he's not perfect,

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Speaker 1: but because he's a prophet and amount of God, we're

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Speaker 1: just going to overlook it and forgive him. And I

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Speaker 1: was the one always questioning everything, like, hey, that's not right.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna go tell him something. I'm really upset, and

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Speaker 1: everybody always stopped me, like, no, don't say anything. He's

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Speaker 1: still a man of God. You're going to be cursed

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Speaker 1: if you speak up. But once I left, and once

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Speaker 1: it started involving my son, I was that's it, and

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Speaker 1: so I left. I started speaking up. Once my mom

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Speaker 1: found out, we tried to go to the head pastor

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Speaker 1: and everything blew up from there. Everything went crazy for

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Speaker 1: a couple of years. They tried to sue us. It

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Speaker 1: turned into a crazy couple year experience going through court

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Speaker 1: trying to get people fired from their jobs, and that's

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Speaker 1: when all the dancers left. Half of the church stayed

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Speaker 1: and half left. The half that left were the dancers

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Speaker 1: and then the crump wives. But a couple of years

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Speaker 1: later another group left and they came back and apologized,

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Speaker 1: and it was just a really long, crazy ending to the.

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Speaker 2: Experience, Angela, do you mind if I asked, just to

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Speaker 2: the level that you're comfortable, what was it the stories

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Speaker 2: that were sure that you found out that wasn't right?

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Speaker 2: Like what was the light bulb moment?

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Speaker 1: It was about women, just the pastor and he was

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Speaker 1: involved with so many women there, and there was a

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Speaker 1: lot of questionable things he was doing, but nobody questioned

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Speaker 1: them saying they was chakaina, not to the extent. I

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Speaker 1: don't think people were making as much money there. But

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Speaker 1: he was in control of finances. He was in control

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Speaker 1: of every aspect of people's lives that you couldn't make

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Speaker 1: decisions without him, right. He would have people write journals

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Speaker 1: of all their sexual experiences and have them read it

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Speaker 1: to him, and because that's them letting it go and

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Speaker 1: healing from it, or God won't forgive them unless they

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Speaker 1: did that. There was so many things.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, Yeah, you know, I think, what's a

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Speaker 2: little bit disappointing and disheartening is the fact that you know,

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Speaker 2: hearing you say that James did know about a lot

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Speaker 2: of things. It's hard because he's obviously like going into this,

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Speaker 2: like really truly believing, And then there's a little bit

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Speaker 2: like obviously, like I believe he's being manipulated my own

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Speaker 2: personal opinion, but it's not with malice. The intention feels right,

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Speaker 2: but it feels just so naive that like he would

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Speaker 2: have experienced this with you, yes, knows that there's something

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Speaker 2: that was wrong and said, oh, well, we have to

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Speaker 2: forgive him because he's a man. Then it gets revealed

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Speaker 2: and he's a part of this community, and this conversation

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Speaker 2: of a public apology to then go right back into

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Speaker 2: a situation like that, how was that when you had

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Speaker 2: seen that he was remarried. Did that all just bring

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Speaker 2: back what you experienced in the church.

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Speaker 1: He actually announced that on Instagram on Jaden's birthday, and

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Speaker 1: Jaden was so upset. He was so hurt, first of

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Speaker 1: all because his dad didn't tell him, didn't invite him,

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Speaker 1: and his dad didn't even call to say happy birthday.

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Speaker 1: At that time, he was having a very hard time

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Speaker 1: not having his dad around. He would have breakdowns all

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Speaker 1: the time and cry hysterically. And when he saw that,

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Speaker 1: he just broke down. He was so upset. But I

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Speaker 1: didn't know about the church yet. I didn't know about

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Speaker 1: the situation, so I was just upset of him being

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Speaker 1: a bad father. And I used to make excuses for

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Speaker 1: James all the time, like, you know, everybody has to

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Speaker 1: go through their own healing process from what we went through.

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Speaker 1: And I gave him passes and excuses like, Okay, you

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Speaker 1: know he needs to heal that. I'll give him a

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Speaker 1: pass for not being a good dad. But once it

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Speaker 1: got years later, I'm like, you don't get a pass anymore.

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Speaker 1: My son is hurting, And I said, you know what,

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Speaker 1: You're going to call your dad. He's like, no, Mom,

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Speaker 1: I don't want him to hear me crying. I said, no,

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Speaker 1: it's time. You're going to call him and let him

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Speaker 1: hear how hurt you are, so maybe he can change.

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Speaker 1: And he called his dad and he was crying hysterically,

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Speaker 1: and I heard people in the background. I don't know

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Speaker 1: who was there, but James made light of the situation,

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Speaker 1: basically saying it wasn't a big deal that Janea shouldn't

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Speaker 1: feel that way, and I lost it. I took the

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Speaker 1: phone away and I went off on James and I said,

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Speaker 1: you know, you're not going to make my son feel

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Speaker 1: that way. If you want to go biblical. My dad's

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Speaker 1: a pastor, I was in the same church. I can

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Speaker 1: throw s pictures at you. You're wrong, Like, I don't

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Speaker 1: care how you want to spin this. If you want

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Speaker 1: to go by the godly way, the biblical way, you're

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Speaker 1: wrong and you're hurting my son. And if we have

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Speaker 1: to cut you out completely, that's what we're gonna do.

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Speaker 1: But you're not going to continue hurting him. And James

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Speaker 1: just kind of like laughed at it, and I hung

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Speaker 1: up the phone after that, And I think James didn't

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Speaker 1: try becoming more involved with Jaden until all this came out.

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Speaker 1: It's just a bad dad, unfortunately. Yeah. I always say

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Speaker 1: he's a good guy, so it's really unfortunate. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: just the reality.

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Speaker 2: I'm so sorry. When we returned the conclusion of our

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Speaker 2: conversation with Angela, this is forgive me for I have followed.

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Speaker 3: Welcome back to forgive me for I have followed. Here

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Speaker 3: is the conclusion of our conversation with Angela.

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Speaker 4: So how are you guys today? Like, have you heard

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Speaker 4: from him, Does he speak to you or his son?

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Speaker 1: Well, right now, Jaden's one is broken, so I've kind

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Speaker 1: of just left it. I loved Jayden not having a phone,

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Speaker 1: but I was very confused when everything first started coming

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Speaker 1: out a couple years ago before the documentary, when it

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Speaker 1: came out online and James wanted to see Jayden more often.

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Speaker 1: I was so confused on how to handle it because

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Speaker 1: I didn't want to keep my son from his relationship

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Speaker 1: with his dad, but I needed strong boundaries to be

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Speaker 1: put down. So I told James, like, he is not

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Speaker 1: allowed to step foot in the church, He's not allowed

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Speaker 1: to be around anybody in the church. Jaden had his phone.

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Speaker 1: I had his location on at all times. Because James

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Speaker 1: never communicated with me once he started going to the church,

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Speaker 1: he would communicate through Jaden. He never sent me his

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Speaker 1: home address. He never let me know what was going on.

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Speaker 1: So I made sure if my son's going, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: know myself. Then I had his home address. Because I

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Speaker 1: had Jayden's location, I knew where they were going while

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Speaker 1: they were together, whether they were at the church or

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Speaker 1: the movies, because I had Jaden's location. But everything was

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Speaker 1: communicated through Jaden. So at the time I still let

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Speaker 1: them have a relationship. James didn't see him very often.

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Speaker 1: But after everything came out with the documentary and they

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Speaker 1: started saying they didn't feel safe, they're being followed. I

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Speaker 1: told James, no, he's not going, Like, if you want

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Speaker 1: to see him, you can come to us. I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to stop your relationship, but he is not going

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Speaker 1: with you, especially not after all this. And had I

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Speaker 1: said that a couple of years ago, Jaden would have

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Speaker 1: been so upset and started blaming me for not having

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Speaker 1: a relationship with his dad. But he's seen the documentary

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Speaker 1: and he knows what's going on, so he understands. And

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Speaker 1: I told him, you know, you're not going to see

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Speaker 1: your dad for a while until he's out of the situation.

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Speaker 1: It's just not healthy. And he said, well, Mom, do

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Speaker 1: this podcast. Let's hope he hears it. Let's hope him

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Speaker 1: and Miranda hear it. Let's get him out of it.

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Speaker 1: But he understands he's not going to go see his dad,

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Speaker 1: and he's fine with it for now.

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Speaker 2: Shout out to Jaden for being a total I was

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Speaker 2: going to say badass. Sorry, I guess right, He's a teenager,

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Speaker 2: I could say that, and to see where you're at today,

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Speaker 2: I mean, how's your healing journey? Ben?

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Speaker 1: Since I left the church and left James, I became

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Speaker 1: a single mom, so it was always survival mode, go go, go,

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Speaker 1: Like I didn't have time to sit and process. I

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Speaker 1: had to be strong and just move on with life,

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Speaker 1: which is really hard because when you leave a call,

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Speaker 1: your mind needs to be rewired. You're getting introduced to

383
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Speaker 1: so many Like I didn't have my first alcoholic drink

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Speaker 1: until I left the church. I did not go out

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Speaker 1: with friends to a bar. Just tiny little things that

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Speaker 1: people experience when they're younger. I was doing for the

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Speaker 1: first time in mid twenties. Even still, there's a lot

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Speaker 1: I haven't experienced. But I think until all of this

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Speaker 1: came out, that's when I started more okay, you know,

390
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Speaker 1: I went through this and it's okay and it's time

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Speaker 1: to face it. And when I came to Washington for

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Speaker 1: the first couple of months, I had a lot of downtime,

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Speaker 1: like looking for a job and everything, and we kind

394
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Speaker 1: of used it as a little vacation to start. But

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Speaker 1: I don't know how I feel about God, to be honest,

396
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Speaker 1: So I always say God or the universe, whoever took

397
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Speaker 1: it as like, Okay, it's your time to start dealing

398
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Speaker 1: with all your trauma and all your past. So these

399
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Speaker 1: last couple months, I really am learning to be okay

400
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Speaker 1: with what I went through. I think I've tried my

401
00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:55,520
Speaker 1: best to heal certain parts. Even still, like something bad

402
00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:57,200
Speaker 1: happens in my life, I'm like, oh my God, I'm

403
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Speaker 1: cursed the pastor cursed me. I need to pray to God.

404
00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:02,600
Speaker 1: And I'm like, wait, nope, that's not true. It's just

405
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Speaker 1: bad things happen sometimes, and that's okay. So I think

406
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Speaker 1: I'm finally to a point where I'm okay talking about it.

407
00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:11,120
Speaker 1: I'm okay saying, you know, it happened, and it's nothing

408
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Speaker 1: to be ashamed of, it's nothing to be embarrassed about.

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Speaker 1: But that's been very recent over the last couple of years,

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Speaker 1: and I've been out for so long. I think I

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Speaker 1: just didn't deal with it. I didn't have the time

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Speaker 1: the mental space. I always had to take care of

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Speaker 1: my kids and be a mom.

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Speaker 2: It really does touch my heart that he wanted you

415
00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:30,480
Speaker 2: to do this today. So hopefully he can get through

416
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:33,840
Speaker 2: to his dad and to Miranda. Is there anything that

417
00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:36,800
Speaker 2: you would want to say if they are listening.

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Speaker 1: Mostly to Miranda. I want her to remember the people

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Speaker 1: that love her, like it's so easy to forget when

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Speaker 1: you're in there and you're told, you know, if they're

421
00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:46,240
Speaker 1: not part of the churches, I don't believe they're not

422
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:49,040
Speaker 1: your family. They don't exist anymore. And I really hope

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00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:51,520
Speaker 1: she remembers that everything that was done was out of love.

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Speaker 1: And I know when she leaves, she will see that.

425
00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:56,439
Speaker 1: I didn't see that until after I left, but I

426
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Speaker 1: hope that's something that can be remembered. And I hope

427
00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:01,400
Speaker 1: James can leave and have a relationship with the son

428
00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:04,199
Speaker 1: before it's too late, before Jayden's not willing to have

429
00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:08,440
Speaker 1: one with him anymore. Jayden's sorry. Jaden's an amazing kid.

430
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Speaker 1: He's still amazing, and he's so much like his dad.

431
00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:15,240
Speaker 1: He's his twin. Sometimes he says things and I'm like,

432
00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:18,679
Speaker 1: oh my god, that's James, Like he's so much like

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00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:21,800
Speaker 1: his dad. And they don't really have a relationship. And

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00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:24,639
Speaker 1: you know, it started when Jayda was three. All he

435
00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:27,000
Speaker 1: wanted was the dad. Mom. Can you find someone to

436
00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,520
Speaker 1: be my dad? Mom? You know, please? I really want

437
00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:34,680
Speaker 1: a dad and James can fill that void that Jayden has,

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00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:36,439
Speaker 1: Like James is the only one that can do it.

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00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:39,440
Speaker 1: He's the only one, and I wish I could say

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00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:41,800
Speaker 1: my love is enough. There's one time I told Jaden,

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00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:43,560
Speaker 1: you know what, I'll be your dad. What do you

442
00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:46,000
Speaker 1: want a dad for? And he said, well, I want

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00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:47,560
Speaker 1: to know how to work on cars. And I said, well,

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00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:49,520
Speaker 1: I'm going to learn, I'll go on YouTube. He goes, well,

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00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:51,119
Speaker 1: I want to play basketball. I said, I'm going to

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00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:53,400
Speaker 1: go start practicing. And I said, you want to call

447
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:56,479
Speaker 1: me dad, call me dad, and we both just started

448
00:20:56,520 --> 00:21:00,160
Speaker 1: laughing But I know it's something that I can't fill

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00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:02,320
Speaker 1: no matter how hard I try. Only James can do it.

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00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:04,760
Speaker 1: I know if they had a relationship, they would be

451
00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,760
Speaker 1: so close. There's so much light. So I really do

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00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:10,120
Speaker 1: hope for Jaden's sake, he loves Miranda too. I hope

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00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:13,080
Speaker 1: for Jayden's sake they both leave. They both see that

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00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:16,119
Speaker 1: there's a child looking up to them that really just

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00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,440
Speaker 1: wants to be part of their lives. So, I mean,

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00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:21,840
Speaker 1: we do have hopes that they leave, and you know,

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00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:24,200
Speaker 1: one day it can happen, and I believe it will,

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00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:25,960
Speaker 1: hopefully sooner than later.

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Speaker 4: Us too, us too, Angela, you are really strong your

460
00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:34,800
Speaker 4: son he is an amazing kid. I can't tell I

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00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:36,639
Speaker 4: know he means the world to you and he deserves

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00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:37,680
Speaker 4: to have that in his life.

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00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:43,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, I'm sorry.

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00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:46,480
Speaker 4: Do you have any advice to someone who's experiencing a

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00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:52,080
Speaker 4: situation either both being in a situation like this and

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00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:54,480
Speaker 4: getting out and then also being on the outside for

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00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:57,080
Speaker 4: family members that are looking at their loved ones that

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00:21:57,119 --> 00:21:57,760
Speaker 4: are still in.

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00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:02,240
Speaker 1: It's really hard. If someone's it's so rooted in a cult,

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00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:04,680
Speaker 1: there's not much you can say. But if there are

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00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:08,560
Speaker 1: people that are having thoughts, like hey, you know, questioning things,

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00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:10,960
Speaker 1: It's not okay for someone to tell you what you

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00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:12,960
Speaker 1: can do at all times, how to spend your money,

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00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,560
Speaker 1: control every aspect of your life. It's not normal, whether

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00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:19,080
Speaker 1: they're godly or not. And I don't believe God won't

476
00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:21,240
Speaker 1: want anyone to let go with their family like that's

477
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:23,360
Speaker 1: the first red flag. So if people are in there

478
00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:26,720
Speaker 1: and they're questioning, don't stop questioning. Don't be afraid to leave,

479
00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:29,280
Speaker 1: and don't be afraid to leave on your own. It's

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00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:31,560
Speaker 1: very scary, but it's the best thing you can do

481
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,720
Speaker 1: for yourself in your future and for the family members

482
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:38,240
Speaker 1: on the outside, don't stop reaching out, don't stop showing love,

483
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,720
Speaker 1: don't keep quiet, like all that stuff matters. And in

484
00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,280
Speaker 1: the decision of leaving, it really helps knowing that they

485
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:46,560
Speaker 1: can leave and have somewhere to go to, because it's

486
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:49,720
Speaker 1: scary you come out to nothing, and knowing that they

487
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:51,800
Speaker 1: have people that love them and that care about them

488
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:53,880
Speaker 1: and are willing to fight for them non stop, it

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00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:55,280
Speaker 1: really does make a difference.

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00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:59,679
Speaker 2: Amazing, Angela, you are an incredible woman. Thank you so

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00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:04,240
Speaker 2: much for doing this and sharing your experience and your

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00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:07,959
Speaker 2: call out. Again, just nothing but love to you and

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00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:13,200
Speaker 2: Jaden and your family. So yeah, thank you. We really

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00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:14,159
Speaker 2: really appreciate you.

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00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:15,520
Speaker 1: Thank you.

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Speaker 2: We want to thank Angela for today's conversation, and we

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00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,160
Speaker 2: want to thank Jane Did for his encouragement. We appreciate

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00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:30,520
Speaker 2: her insight and transparency, and we wish her all the

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00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:31,879
Speaker 2: best on her healing journey.

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Speaker 3: This has been Forgive Me For I Have Followed.

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00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:35,480
Speaker 4: We'll be back next week.

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00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:37,600
Speaker 2: Forgive Me For I Have Followed is.

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00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:41,720
Speaker 5: A production from wv Sound Dirty Robert and iHeartMedia's Michael

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00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:45,080
Speaker 5: Tore podcast network, hosted by me Khalia Gray and Me

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00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:48,280
Speaker 5: jessicasobetto Forgive Me For I Have Followed is produced by

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00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:50,919
Speaker 5: Aaron Burlson and Sophie Spencer's zabos Our.

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00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:55,280
Speaker 2: Executive producers are Khalia Gray myself, Wilmar Balderama, Leo Clem,

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00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 2: and Aaron Burlison at WV Sound.

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00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:01,120
Speaker 5: This episode was edited by Sean Tracy and features original

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00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 5: music by Madison Davenport and Halo Boy. For more podcasts

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00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:08,679
Speaker 5: from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

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00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:10,119
Speaker 5: you listen to your favorite shows.

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Speaker 2: See you next week, See you next week,