1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to stephone 2 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 1: Never Told You production of iHeart Radio. And today we 3 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:22,239 Speaker 1: have a special guest friend of the show and a 4 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 1: fellow I hearder Enna Yea, thank you for that. Can 5 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: you introduce yourself for our listeners or reintroduced? I guess yes, Hi, 6 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:38,879 Speaker 1: I'm anna host n I'm a managing executive producer here 7 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 1: at iHeart Radio and co host of the Ethnically Ambidios 8 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: podcast and producer of a bunch of podcasts. I'm sure 9 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:49,279 Speaker 1: you've heard, like Daily's Guys last culture A stays this 10 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 1: is important, you know, the whole I heeart comedy side. 11 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 1: That's me indeed. And yes, you we were talking about 12 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 1: that you were previously on before me, pre pre me 13 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 1: having the best conversation without me. I'm very sad I 14 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 1: wasn't a part of that. I just wanted that to 15 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: be known. Yeah, thank you. We can have another conversation conversation. 16 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 1: So yeah, we're fixing this. And yeah, we've been talking 17 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 1: about having you on the show for a while because 18 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: you do have this vast amount of experience and titles 19 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 1: under your professional belt, and we know you are someone 20 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:34,959 Speaker 1: who has been in the front of and behind the 21 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: scenes of podcasting at all about it and are so 22 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:42,759 Speaker 1: excited to get your perspective on this very fast changing, 23 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:46,319 Speaker 1: a fast paced industry. So thank you for coming on. 24 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 1: Of course, thank you for having me again. I literally 25 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 1: feel like we've podcast together. Like I feel like I've 26 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 1: been on this show with you because we've you know, 27 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: actually have podcasted together before in other shows and stuff. 28 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: But I guess you weren't there that first time. In 29 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 1: my mind you were. That's what's weird. It's like, okay, 30 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 1: so that's how I like it. Like I've never like 31 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 1: I was always here. That's the way I wanted to 32 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 1: be for all of our listeners as well as guests 33 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:21,240 Speaker 1: that I've always been here even when I wasn't. Samantha 34 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 1: has always been here. Like I'm the ghost. You're kind 35 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 1: of a ghost because you're in like a dark background. 36 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 1: You're just your heads in light. I know, I'm so 37 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:32,239 Speaker 1: close to the camera too. I was like, I can't 38 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:36,239 Speaker 1: adjust my my so I'm right up on the screen. 39 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: But yeah, and that's in fact, I was just thinking 40 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:41,919 Speaker 1: about the fact my first experience with like speaking as 41 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: a podcaster was with you and Sharene and Annie in 42 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 1: Florida and that was like such a big deal. Yeah, 43 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 1: we were on the whole panel. So this is kind 44 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 1: of how I got to know the podcasting industry. Honestly, 45 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 1: you and many of the folks of the California the 46 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 1: comedy I guess segments are the first people that I 47 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 1: actually met, even before some of my Atlanta people, which 48 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 1: I live in Atlanta, which I still think it's funny. 49 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: That's right. We we really took Orlando by storm during 50 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:18,119 Speaker 1: podcast movement there sure dud the Hilton Lazy River, Oh 51 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:22,079 Speaker 1: I can't. I tried to my favorite place. Yeah, I 52 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: think you had a good experience as opposed to Adie 53 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: and not getting stuck and having like a war story 54 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 1: coming out of it, going like we're never doing that again. 55 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:34,679 Speaker 1: Every laughed at that. River employees laughed in our face. Yeah, 56 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 1: they had to teach us. How did They're like you, okay, 57 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 1: do you need help? Literally as they are trying to 58 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 1: clean up around us, We're like, we're stuck. We're sorry. 59 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 1: That's a whole other show though. Yes, you are one 60 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 1: of the first faces with Annie as well as um 61 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: like our own producers of podcasting for me, because it 62 00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 1: was such a new thing again. It's been it had 63 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 1: been around, but it really started cut on fire, Like 64 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 1: I was like, whoa, these people have jobs careers out 65 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 1: of this. I say this to any who's been a 66 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 1: part of every ten years, but still in my mind 67 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 1: it's so new. But I was really blown away with 68 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:20,359 Speaker 1: the things that happened within podcasting and what kind of 69 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 1: field it is and how there's so many layers within 70 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:26,679 Speaker 1: podcasting and there it's a big industry, but it seems 71 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: so small to me because you often think of the 72 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:33,039 Speaker 1: indie podcasts that have the host that edit themselves and 73 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 1: then tried to publish it on their own, but when 74 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: you look at the bigger picture about how much money 75 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: is being made, and so I wanted to get into 76 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 1: that with you, kind of like talking about the industry 77 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 1: and what you've seen and how you think it needs 78 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 1: to change or what are the good things in it? 79 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: Before we started there, How did you get into podcasting? 80 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 1: I got into podcasting in twent around then, um because 81 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 1: I was working in live comedy producing. I was producing 82 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 1: a lot of live shows for stand up and variety 83 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:12,840 Speaker 1: and improv around Los Angeles, and I met comedian Dave Hauntsberger, 84 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 1: who is the best shout out Dave David you guys 85 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:22,159 Speaker 1: my nome as David Huntsberger. I call him Dave No deal. 86 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 1: But he asked me, He's like, wow, you seem really 87 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 1: interested in like working in comedy, Like are you interested 88 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:32,919 Speaker 1: in podcasting? And I was like yes, I took a 89 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: bunch of like audio courses in college, so I'm just 90 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:39,160 Speaker 1: really into like editing and working like with software and 91 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: you know, I've done that my whole life. And uh, 92 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 1: he was like, do you want to intern on a 93 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: podcast I have at Earwolf called Professor blast Off, which 94 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: was hosted by him, Tig Nataro, and Kyle Dunnigan. And 95 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:58,919 Speaker 1: I said yes. So that was like my first foray 96 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:01,920 Speaker 1: into podcast. I started in turning for their show at 97 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:05,839 Speaker 1: ear Wolf, which was a fun experience, really cool. I 98 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 1: got to sit in on recordings with like so many 99 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:10,279 Speaker 1: cool people like Molly ere in Wolf from like sixteen 100 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 1: Candles and like, you know, a bunch of like really 101 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:15,480 Speaker 1: cool people like that, like Diablo Cody. Like I was 102 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 1: like WHOA, Like this is cool. And I also really 103 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: liked Professor blast Off because it was just a fun show. Um, 104 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 1: And so that was like my first step into podcasting 105 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 1: kind of like watching how it gets made, uh, kind 106 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:32,480 Speaker 1: of seeing the background of it a little, and then um, 107 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:36,360 Speaker 1: from there, like as I gained more experience, I started 108 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:41,159 Speaker 1: producing other comedians podcasts basically, and then I just like 109 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 1: kind of went from there really took off. Now look 110 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:49,919 Speaker 1: at me, But you started huge with Earwolf because I remember, 111 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 1: like one of the first podcasts I knew of outside 112 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:54,359 Speaker 1: of how Stuff Wars like stuff you should know was 113 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:57,160 Speaker 1: Comedy Bang Bang, which was signed onto ear Wolf at 114 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 1: that point in time. Let's which that's a pretty big 115 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 1: that worked for because it Wolf is kind of like 116 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 1: along the lines of one of the first past networks, 117 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:09,160 Speaker 1: early comedy. I mean that was Comedy Bang Bang was 118 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 1: one of the first podcasts I knew about its way 119 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 1: and I would listen to and then it was like 120 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: cool to be in the ear Wolf offices and like 121 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 1: see like Scott Ackerman walk by and be like whoa, 122 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: And now my podcast with him, he guests on my shows. 123 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 1: It's been like full circle. It's very surreal times when 124 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 1: we were like, wow, so cool. I'm exhausted. What can 125 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 1: I say, I'm exhausted. I don't like that is fair. 126 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 1: But so you've been you've seen this industry from when 127 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 1: it was kind of like, you know, burgeoning into what 128 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 1: it is now, which is I have a game with 129 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 1: Samantha where I'm like, oh, I love critiquing podcast and 130 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 1: like movies and TV because I still rarely get to 131 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 1: do that, like all my friends get to do that. 132 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: But I'm like a podcasting is now like a choke 133 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: and TV, I know, and it's hilarious. The ones who 134 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 1: do it well do it real well, you know, And 135 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 1: you're like, yes, we're curious if you want to talk about, um, 136 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 1: how you've seen it change, Like we recently did an 137 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 1: episode on you know, there's still some real issues with 138 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:32,439 Speaker 1: diversity and podcasting and how it's still like a lot 139 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 1: of white men largely doing podcasting. Um, is that something 140 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 1: that you have seen, you have seen change? What are 141 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: your thoughts around that? Yeah, you know, I mean I 142 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 1: felt like for me, it was when it like kind 143 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 1: of blew up, and I guess like I felt like 144 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:54,719 Speaker 1: it was a lot of the same stuff that we 145 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 1: were hearing, Like it was a lot of true crime. 146 00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously Cereal, Sarah Kanegg's cereal like popped off 147 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:05,959 Speaker 1: the like true crime sort of spree if you will, 148 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 1: pun and kind of of like, you know, like that 149 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 1: sort of genre of podcasting. So I wasn't like everyone's like, oh, 150 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 1: we should be investigating, we should be investigating crimes too. 151 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 1: In my opinion, there's a bit of a I have 152 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:22,840 Speaker 1: a bit of like a sort of ethics issue with that, 153 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 1: of like it's one thing to be like investigating like 154 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 1: eight decades old crime, like what happened with odd Nan Side, 155 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 1: which is now once again relevant in the news because 156 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: Oddnan just got out. But I feel like it almost 157 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 1: went too far where always some people were like, this 158 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:40,599 Speaker 1: crime is happening in real time and we're going to 159 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: solve it, and you're like, whoa, You're a podcaster, you 160 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:45,440 Speaker 1: know you have to be like, let's just you know, 161 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 1: step on the break. So like that went from like 162 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 1: zero to a hundred. So I have kind of my 163 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 1: own feelings about that. I feel like, you know, there's 164 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 1: there really should be a line when it comes to 165 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 1: a podcasting, and there's a certain network that should tone 166 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: it down. But then you know, we saw a lot 167 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 1: of very similar ideas because people would see one idea 168 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 1: and be like that's a hit. Let's all try and 169 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:11,199 Speaker 1: recreate that idea, whether it be like a news podcast 170 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 1: or it be like a politics podcast, or even just 171 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:18,559 Speaker 1: like very sort of like a name things of like 172 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: what my daily routine is or something like that. You know, 173 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 1: these sort of like ideas I felt like kept bubbling 174 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 1: up and people were always just trying to do them 175 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 1: better than the last person. And so it became a 176 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 1: lot of podcasts that were basically the same podcast competing 177 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 1: to be number one, right, whether that be in comedy, 178 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 1: you know, news, science, like money, like so many like 179 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 1: investing podcasts came up, and you were right, like a 180 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:48,839 Speaker 1: lot of these were hosted by white people, and for me, 181 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:52,200 Speaker 1: I was kind of like okay, like we get it. 182 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 1: You know, like it's a lot, but we get it. 183 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:58,439 Speaker 1: Which is like why I wanted to start my podcast 184 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: ethnically because because I was like, I feel like nobody 185 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 1: really wants to talk about the Middle East, um, which 186 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 1: is sad because it exists, and people always just like 187 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:10,960 Speaker 1: look down on it in a way of like it's 188 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 1: so sad. They just want to kill them kill each 189 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:16,080 Speaker 1: other out there. It's just always war. They're just you know, 190 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:19,199 Speaker 1: like we tried to help them when we invaded Afghanistan. 191 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 1: We tried to help them, but you know what, they 192 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 1: don't even know what's what they need, you know. And 193 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:29,439 Speaker 1: the Middle East has been like strife with like American uh, 194 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 1: you know, diabolical interference, if you will, like for years, 195 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 1: for as far back as we can remember, and we're 196 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 1: watching it happened, like we literally just watched when it 197 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:39,440 Speaker 1: went down in Afghanistan, when we tried to leave and 198 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 1: the Taliban took over, and like people are begging to 199 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 1: be taken out of there, and we're like, oh my god, 200 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:48,960 Speaker 1: that's so tough. Anyway, gotta go. Aren't you happy we're leaving? 201 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:51,079 Speaker 1: And it's like you created this mess, you know. So 202 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:56,079 Speaker 1: we've watched that for years, generations of you know, just 203 00:11:56,360 --> 00:12:00,679 Speaker 1: unnecessary interference by the US, and I just felt like 204 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 1: no one really want to talk about it, especially after 205 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:06,079 Speaker 1: nine eleven, because we'd already become the Middle East had 206 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 1: become this demonized figure. So like that's one of the 207 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 1: reasons I want to start my podcast, I think the 208 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 1: biggest with my co host Shrine Units, because I was like, 209 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 1: I don't feel like there's any like Middle easterners taking 210 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 1: the time. I mean, now there is, but like when 211 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:23,679 Speaker 1: we first started our podcast in I didn't feel like 212 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:25,960 Speaker 1: people were really talking about it. I felt like it 213 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 1: was always just like white men reporting the news, and 214 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 1: there was such always like a very clear viewpoint of 215 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: like it is what it is over there, and it's 216 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 1: sad and it's tough, and people are dying and welp, 217 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 1: we tried to help them. And that was like a 218 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:47,480 Speaker 1: very clear stance I was constantly hearing and I was like, well, 219 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 1: that's actually not what it is. This has been a 220 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 1: a land that's been strife with literal just nonsense by 221 00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 1: every other country around it. No one really cares about 222 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 1: out these people. They just want to like in a way, 223 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 1: uh tame them as truly horrible as that is, you know, 224 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:10,560 Speaker 1: like there was no they just saw us truly like 225 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 1: many other countries that they've colonized, as savages. Like they 226 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 1: were like, they don't know what they need. So I 227 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 1: was like, we just need more perspectives from the people 228 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 1: who are from these places or people who have lived 229 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 1: these lives, have had these experiences, and like you weren't 230 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:31,440 Speaker 1: really seeing that in podcasting because people were like you know, 231 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 1: I mean and as time has gone on and you know, 232 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 1: we've really started to lean into accepting people. And it's 233 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:42,319 Speaker 1: been a process in this country, especially like when people 234 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:45,439 Speaker 1: acknowledging like yes, innocent black men are being killed by 235 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 1: the police. Okay, like one step, Okay, I'm starting to 236 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 1: see it now, which is like, you know, everything in 237 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:55,320 Speaker 1: this country takes years for people to accept. You know, 238 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 1: Americans are so we're so hard on our own way 239 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 1: of like no, America is the land of the free, 240 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 1: nothing would bad would happen here. You come here for opportunity, 241 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:09,080 Speaker 1: And it's like, yeah, you come here for opportunity and 242 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: like white supremacy and like racist ideals, you know, like 243 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 1: that's it's not just opportunity. You have to like form 244 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 1: to a type of way of life. You have to 245 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 1: give into white supremacy to gain any sort of like 246 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 1: respect or like you know, to get anywhere in this 247 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 1: country because that's what the norm is. That's the status 248 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 1: quo is like be as white as you can and 249 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 1: people will respect you exactly. So but I digress, you know, 250 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 1: like there's a lot um So like I was always 251 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 1: like we need more, Like it's not just like white 252 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 1: guys talking about money, true crime or science or the news. 253 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 1: This world is so much more than that, and there's 254 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:53,160 Speaker 1: so much more going on that, Like I've always felt 255 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 1: like we just needed more, and as podcasting has grown, 256 00:14:56,360 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 1: we're finally starting to get there. Yeah, start o broken 257 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 1: isn't number one as much as he got knocked off 258 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 1: a couple of kind is, but like sometimes he gets 259 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 1: knocked out a little. It took royalty to get to that. 260 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 1: But hey, well we'll quote that in quote um, But yeah, no, 261 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 1: that's absolutely that big conversation is when we're looking at 262 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 1: podcasting and what it is and how it's growing bigger 263 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: and bigger and bigger and becoming a money maker, and 264 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 1: a huge money maker at that, who actually owns this content, 265 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 1: who actually is profiting off this content? Who actually is 266 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:35,600 Speaker 1: being seen and noticed? Um? And it's typically white men, 267 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:38,360 Speaker 1: white sis men, and this is who has been gaining 268 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 1: the bigger ground. And the conversation beyond that is that 269 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 1: it's very Western centric and that it's just one type 270 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 1: of point of view and it's just spreading into like 271 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 1: this is the norm kind of why we see yes 272 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 1: being white is Bakerrea in China because they have that 273 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 1: really in their mind. This is this is the supremast 274 00:15:57,400 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 1: ideals we want to be there, so therefore we all 275 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 1: want to be very literally white, because this is that 276 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 1: standard of rich and being on the hierarchy of things, 277 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 1: and then trying to realize that this is like the 278 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 1: Western idea that's been really pushed out there because of colonialization, 279 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 1: all of those conversations that we've had, and yeah, when 280 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:17,600 Speaker 1: it comes to the Middle East, we constantly have talked 281 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 1: about it. It's either in this perspective of yeah, they're 282 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 1: they're war torn and they're just destroying themselves, or we've 283 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 1: got to go rescue them because they are heathens, because 284 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 1: they don't believe what we believe, or some of those things, 285 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 1: when we know actually the underlying reason is because they 286 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 1: will have money there as in like resources that the 287 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 1: U s ontes and have saken faults reasoning to quote 288 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 1: unquote protect the people there. But that's a whole different 289 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 1: conversation in itself, and took me a long time to 290 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 1: go that out for myself growing up in a very 291 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 1: white household, which we all all talked about. But beyond that, 292 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 1: we see that again, this is one of those moments 293 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 1: where we have a moment in this industry. It's fairly 294 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 1: still new so that we can make a big change, 295 00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 1: and I say we, as in marginalized people can actually 296 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:01,720 Speaker 1: make a big change and be a part of that 297 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:04,920 Speaker 1: change as well. Recently we did a Monday Many where 298 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:08,359 Speaker 1: statistics came out for those who are actually creators with 299 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:12,119 Speaker 1: the fact that its white creators, only four percent are 300 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: African American only are Latin X and only five percent 301 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:19,280 Speaker 1: are Asians, and then six percent we don't know. They 302 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 1: don't say their ethnicity, so that is such a big 303 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:25,879 Speaker 1: difference in numbers. And then we talk about women and 304 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 1: men and those non binaries, any of those uh, those 305 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 1: numbers are all guess what, pretty much baking on the 306 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:39,120 Speaker 1: cis gender ideals and very binary in itself. Why do 307 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,879 Speaker 1: we need voices like your podcasts and hopefully more podcasts 308 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 1: where marginalized people are able to tell the stories. Why 309 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 1: do you think that's important? I think just like learning 310 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 1: any perspective that's not yours is huge because like, the 311 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 1: more you understand how other people have to live and 312 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:01,160 Speaker 1: what they go through, it creates more empathy within you. 313 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 1: And I think that's like really what we lack in 314 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:08,640 Speaker 1: America because it's so much of like a get ahead 315 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 1: sort of mentality, like b number one be successful that 316 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:17,119 Speaker 1: we don't care about who we step on or you know, 317 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 1: like push aside to get there. And I think that 318 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 1: really stems from a lack of empathy and this like 319 00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 1: obsession with capitalism, like we cannot stop. We feel like, oh, 320 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:31,119 Speaker 1: if you don't work hard, then you're going to be 321 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:35,119 Speaker 1: the person who's starving, and no one stops to be 322 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 1: like okay, but like what about the people who are 323 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:41,160 Speaker 1: actually starving and don't have the opportunities and don't have 324 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:45,880 Speaker 1: the privilege to get further in life, because systematically we've 325 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 1: just held them down, you know. And I think we 326 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 1: have to be listening more to these stories to understand 327 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 1: why we literally it's to tone it down, like we 328 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:02,920 Speaker 1: don't need this. There's enough wealth to go around. That's 329 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 1: like the real the realistically, like you know, and I've 330 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:09,440 Speaker 1: you know, we've heard this argument of like we need 331 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 1: to the billionaires don't need that much money obviously to 332 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 1: be a billionaire, Like you could be a literally you 333 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 1: could have five hundred million dollars and you could still 334 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 1: for the most part, live the same life that you're 335 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 1: living as a billionaire. So literally taking five million of 336 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 1: your own money and distributing it doesn't change your life 337 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 1: that much, but it would change so many more people's, 338 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: you know, like just even like conceptually of like just 339 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:45,879 Speaker 1: have even the slightest bit of empathy to understand what 340 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 1: people are going through and make it less about you 341 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 1: as a human being and more about like survival of 342 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 1: the masses, and like so much can change, Like how 343 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 1: do you know how much change five million dollars could 344 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:03,159 Speaker 1: bring to a community of people? Like we need to 345 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:05,160 Speaker 1: hear people's stories, We need to know what's going on, 346 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:09,679 Speaker 1: Like we need to understand who is suffering, and why 347 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 1: take that into consideration and then use our actions Like 348 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:15,439 Speaker 1: actions speak louder than words. I mean, that's such a 349 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 1: cliche saying, but it's very true. Like you can be 350 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 1: like I get it, I see you, and I hear you, 351 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 1: and it's like okay, And then what it's like improv 352 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 1: you know, like you know, yes, and like what are 353 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:36,159 Speaker 1: you gonna do about it? If you hear me and 354 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 1: see me and see what I'm you know, like, okay, 355 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:41,639 Speaker 1: now let's do something about it. Let's put you know, 356 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:43,720 Speaker 1: whether it's put your money where your mouth is or 357 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 1: just take the steps two try and be a part 358 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:53,119 Speaker 1: of the solution, like it doesn't you know, us as 359 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:57,000 Speaker 1: like the regular folks who obviously I'm not a millionaire, 360 00:20:57,119 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 1: but like if I can donate here or there, I 361 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 1: do because like I understand, like I might not be 362 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:05,359 Speaker 1: giving the most, but I'm giving something, and if we 363 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:09,400 Speaker 1: all just gave something, it does help. It makes a difference. 364 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,960 Speaker 1: That's why I think it's important. Well, you know, that's 365 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 1: one of the things, um, that you do for with 366 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:18,400 Speaker 1: the podcast that I think is really great is that 367 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 1: you make sure to give a platform for so many 368 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:25,600 Speaker 1: people who are not able to share their stories or 369 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 1: share is just their life in general. I just literally 370 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:30,679 Speaker 1: shared when I was on the podcast with you about 371 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:32,920 Speaker 1: my experience as being an Asian person in a white 372 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 1: community and growing up in a conservative town and how 373 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:39,399 Speaker 1: I've had to like redefine my identity because I've been sold. 374 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 1: You know, we had that whole big conversation and then 375 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:44,960 Speaker 1: not that's not a story that's not heard on podcasts, 376 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 1: but I know, like beyond that, you do that for 377 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 1: so many other creators and or just people just living 378 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 1: their life and talking about, yeah, this is my experience 379 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:56,159 Speaker 1: as a B and C ethnicity or a B and 380 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:58,639 Speaker 1: C race and this is why it matters for you 381 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 1: to understand who I am as a person and I 382 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 1: think and stuff like that is a bigger conversation, is 383 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 1: that we need to give these open moments to show 384 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 1: representation because it's also that commonality of like their normal people. Yeah, 385 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 1: oh oh, it's not the stereotype that I thought because 386 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 1: my parents taught me that way, which is like a 387 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 1: massive systematic problem of like thinking, because like everyone thinks 388 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 1: a certain way because they've been told to think that 389 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 1: way for so long. It just takes one person to 390 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 1: be like, I don't think that's real. Mean, like in 391 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:34,680 Speaker 1: most families, it rocks the boat if you have one 392 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:36,639 Speaker 1: person being like, I don't know, Dad, I feel like 393 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 1: that's like a very narrow minded way of thinking in 394 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:42,439 Speaker 1: your dad's like how dare you? But that like in 395 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 1: a weird way, Like just saying that, even if it 396 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:48,600 Speaker 1: doesn't turn the person to like understand your viewpoint, just 397 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:52,920 Speaker 1: challenging them a little bit is some interesting thing because 398 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:55,160 Speaker 1: they do for a second half to think about it, 399 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:58,440 Speaker 1: and just cracking that sort of thinking process for even 400 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:04,120 Speaker 1: one second is surprisingly doing something because like now they've 401 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:06,920 Speaker 1: had a moment of like even if they're in deep 402 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,440 Speaker 1: denial and don't want to give in. They've had that 403 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:13,359 Speaker 1: moment and you never know it might potentially in the 404 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 1: future change the way they think even slightly, which is 405 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 1: like what we have to do. That's the problems, Like 406 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:21,359 Speaker 1: you have to go like bit by bit by bit, 407 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:24,800 Speaker 1: because we as Americans are very hardheaded and you know, 408 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,920 Speaker 1: stuck in our ways, and like that's what we've watched 409 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:31,440 Speaker 1: for years, like one little, bit by bit by bit 410 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 1: that we've kind of broken down the American society. You know, 411 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:40,120 Speaker 1: like we got Bernie a socialist to run as far 412 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 1: as he did, which you know, ten years ago Bernie 413 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 1: would be like a socialist get out of here. Yet 414 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 1: you know, like your communists, Like we didn't even know 415 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,000 Speaker 1: what that meant. You know, we were just hoping a 416 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:55,919 Speaker 1: Democrat would win. And now we're out here being like democrats. Okay, 417 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:59,160 Speaker 1: a democrat that you're basically calling, you know, like a 418 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,680 Speaker 1: democrat in army is basically Republican. At this point, we're like, okay, nice, 419 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,879 Speaker 1: try but like now it's just like step by step 420 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:09,959 Speaker 1: by step, it's the only way because again, as Americans 421 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 1: were a mess. We simply can't figure it out. Indeed, 422 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 1: that's true. Well, speaking of all of this and and 423 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: taking actions, doing more than words. One of the reasons 424 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,320 Speaker 1: we wanted to talk to you, Anna is that you 425 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 1: founded something called Next Up to kind of address a 426 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 1: lot of what we're talking about, and uh, we would 427 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 1: love if you could explain more about the history of that, 428 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:51,440 Speaker 1: what it is, what's going on with it right now. Yeah. So, actually, um, 429 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 1: I kind of came up with the idea of Next Up, 430 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,920 Speaker 1: which obviously wasn't called that at the time. But at 431 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:01,359 Speaker 1: the Orlando podcast movement that we were all at in 432 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:05,520 Speaker 1: the Lazy River, we're all great thinking happens. Um I 433 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:08,680 Speaker 1: really can't stress unless there's so much I love Lazier. 434 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:10,639 Speaker 1: I know you guys had such a terrible experience, and 435 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 1: I had such a great experience in that lazy River. 436 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,399 Speaker 1: It was like my dream. I think it says a 437 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:19,240 Speaker 1: lot about our personality. I think our anxiety, maybe some 438 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 1: mental health stuff, overall control issues. It's fine, it's fine. 439 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:26,639 Speaker 1: I simply cannot get enough of a lazy river anyway. So, 440 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:31,120 Speaker 1: while at podcast movement, I ran into a friend, a 441 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:36,440 Speaker 1: thief Nassouli, who's a journalist now works at Spotify. Gimlet 442 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:43,439 Speaker 1: Wall street Journal producing shows, and he was there at 443 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 1: this conference with this sort of Google PRX like diversity program. 444 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,440 Speaker 1: And at the time of my friend of Fief lived 445 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:57,440 Speaker 1: in Lebanon, So to me, I was like, whoa, you 446 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 1: live in Lebanon and are in this program him and 447 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:03,240 Speaker 1: are like creating a podcast and like Google, you know 448 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:06,960 Speaker 1: pr X, this program is paying for it. Like that's amazing, 449 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:11,119 Speaker 1: like an incredible I was like, that is the coolest 450 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 1: thing I've ever heard, the fact that they like fly 451 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: you out from Lebanon, Like that's incredible. And he was 452 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 1: working on a show called Her Stage in Arabic I 453 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:27,639 Speaker 1: believe it's Mastrahia, which I'm sorry if I'm pronouncing that wrong, 454 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 1: but Her Stage is basically a show about like the 455 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:36,840 Speaker 1: sort of fem sort of you know, like l g 456 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 1: B t Q I A revolutions like going on in 457 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 1: levitt On, like kind of the underground scene of what 458 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,159 Speaker 1: it is to be a drag queener performer or just 459 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:50,640 Speaker 1: living in like a queer space. And I was like, 460 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:55,800 Speaker 1: that's a really cool podcast, and that's incredible that this 461 00:26:55,960 --> 00:27:00,440 Speaker 1: program is paying for you to create that show because 462 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:02,680 Speaker 1: these stories are important, Like I would have never even 463 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:06,720 Speaker 1: known that like that was even a conceptually something that 464 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 1: was happening until he said it to my face and 465 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:12,960 Speaker 1: I was like, okay, well wow, like that's incredible, And 466 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:16,720 Speaker 1: so that kind of got me thinking that and uh, 467 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 1: if you guys don't remember, Spotify is how to sort 468 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 1: of initiative for women to get into podcasting, So that 469 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,879 Speaker 1: was kinda had already happened. So that was in the 470 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:30,280 Speaker 1: back of my mind, and then hearing his story kind 471 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:33,840 Speaker 1: of got me thinking. And so at really literally in 472 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,920 Speaker 1: my mind, I was thinking, but we're I heeart, why 473 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,680 Speaker 1: don't we have something like that, Like we're literally I Heart, 474 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,840 Speaker 1: We're like constantly neck and neck with NPR is like 475 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 1: the top podcast network. Surreal that we would not have 476 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:52,120 Speaker 1: something like that. So I cornered our CEO at our 477 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 1: I Heart party at Orlando at the Podcast Movement, and 478 00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: I told him I pitched him this idea. I was like, 479 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 1: I think it's pretty wild we do not have a 480 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:05,760 Speaker 1: sort of diversity initiative here, Like we are a massive company. 481 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:10,200 Speaker 1: We can afford to give back, you know, And he 482 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:15,320 Speaker 1: was like, yeah, yeah, we couldn't. You know his conn 483 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:19,000 Speaker 1: a way, you know. I was like okay, And so 484 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:22,440 Speaker 1: after that, I was like, brb Connell, we'll talk soon, 485 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:26,360 Speaker 1: you know. I went away for about a few months 486 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:31,560 Speaker 1: and uh started working on like a pitch um. I 487 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,160 Speaker 1: interviewed a bunch of people, including my friend of Fief 488 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 1: who had been in these diversity programs. I talked to 489 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:39,640 Speaker 1: a few people from the Spotify program. I talked to 490 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:43,320 Speaker 1: a few people from the PRX, and I was just 491 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:47,720 Speaker 1: like asking people like, what was your experience, what did 492 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 1: you like, what didn't you like? What could have made 493 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 1: it better? You know, like just like getting a feel 494 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,880 Speaker 1: of what people liked about these podcast diversity programs, because 495 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 1: I really would had never done anything like this before, 496 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 1: So I was just asking anything that came to mind 497 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:10,440 Speaker 1: to then go away and create a sort of a program. 498 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:15,120 Speaker 1: Like I was just literally being like, okay, so you 499 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:18,760 Speaker 1: liked that they gave you money. You know. Really, I 500 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:23,000 Speaker 1: was such a simple just trying to figure it out 501 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 1: level that I went away and with the help of 502 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:30,200 Speaker 1: Jack O'Brien, my manager on the comedy side, just like 503 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 1: kind of using him as like a sounding board, being 504 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,520 Speaker 1: like this is what I'm thinking, uh, and then he 505 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:38,880 Speaker 1: kind of helped me word it in a way that 506 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 1: sounded like professional because I am a real like in 507 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,760 Speaker 1: my thinking, I'm a very simple person. I guess that 508 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 1: makes me thinking strange. But like I I like to 509 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,120 Speaker 1: keep it to the basics. I don't like to get 510 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 1: too heady and complicated and like deep. I mean not 511 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 1: like deep. I can get deep, but I mean like 512 00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:00,959 Speaker 1: I don't like to like use big language to sound smart, 513 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 1: you know, like I always think that's like so condescending 514 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:05,600 Speaker 1: in a way, it's too much. I'm like, just be 515 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:08,840 Speaker 1: real with me, talk clearly. Let's do this so I 516 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 1: don't sit there thinking, like, wait, what's like talking about 517 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 1: very literal give me the basis on exactly. That's how 518 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:20,240 Speaker 1: I've always been. I don't believe in like the sounding 519 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 1: smart to sound smart. Like I'm like, we don't need this. 520 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 1: Climate change is destroying us. We don't have time, you know, 521 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:29,040 Speaker 1: like we gotta get moving to explain to me exactly 522 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,880 Speaker 1: what you want, you know, and what you're saying, like 523 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,840 Speaker 1: keep it clear. So he kind of helped me, like 524 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 1: make it sound professional, make it sound good. Whatever. And 525 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,760 Speaker 1: uh so I took this pitch, and you know, it 526 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 1: took a while because this was the end of sort 527 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:47,680 Speaker 1: of like August. When I pitched it, to Connell, and 528 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:52,280 Speaker 1: then I went away and then came around and I 529 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,200 Speaker 1: realized I kind of it wasn't possible to do this 530 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,520 Speaker 1: thing where we like flew people out for like six 531 00:30:57,560 --> 00:30:59,360 Speaker 1: months and like worked with them. It was all of 532 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 1: a sudden, like, oh, there's a global pandemic, and we 533 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:07,160 Speaker 1: I basically like put it on the back burner and 534 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:10,400 Speaker 1: was like, well, let's get through this first, and then 535 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 1: I'll think about this diversity program because as of now 536 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:17,280 Speaker 1: things are kind of in a bad place in America 537 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,680 Speaker 1: or in the world really so. And then you know, 538 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:25,160 Speaker 1: it's an unfortunate thing that George Floyd was murdered, you know, 539 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 1: um and such a really horrible, horrible way. And you know, 540 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 1: this country finally it took a black man again being 541 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:43,960 Speaker 1: murdered but on camera, which is not even the first 542 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:48,360 Speaker 1: time that's happened to have a wrecking thing. I mean, honestly, 543 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:50,800 Speaker 1: it also took like everyone just finally being fed up 544 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 1: in this country's inability to even handle a global pandemic, 545 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 1: as if it's not happened before, to force everyone to 546 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:04,120 Speaker 1: look at themselves and you know what they were putting forth, 547 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:09,280 Speaker 1: And that's what kind of lead to me being able 548 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:14,880 Speaker 1: to pitch next up in a more revised, pandemic friendly way, 549 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:18,479 Speaker 1: which is like zoom, you know, to the company. So 550 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 1: I was like, okay, you know, you guys want to 551 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 1: do something, We'll hear something. Here's something that we can 552 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 1: put forth that will help bring further perspectives into this world. 553 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:35,080 Speaker 1: And this is my heart. So you want to do something, 554 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 1: put your money, worry about this, you know. Like I 555 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,239 Speaker 1: was like, let's make it happen. And luckily, you know, 556 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 1: we're run by Connal, who is very forthcoming and very 557 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:45,920 Speaker 1: open and very into it. You know, he's down, and 558 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,000 Speaker 1: he was like, let's do it. Go do it. Basically 559 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:52,200 Speaker 1: I got the thumbs up, but like have fun, go 560 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:55,320 Speaker 1: do it and good luck and good night now and 561 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 1: shook him. But you know, he was like, go do it, 562 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 1: and so I did. It's like, okay, you know, obviously 563 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 1: before that, I had created an entire game plan, I 564 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 1: had created a budget, I had created all this stuff 565 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:08,440 Speaker 1: that obviously it wasn't just like go do what. It 566 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:11,720 Speaker 1: was more like, here's everything to present to you, here's 567 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:13,360 Speaker 1: what I would like to do, here's how much money 568 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 1: I need. And then they were like, perfect, let's do it. 569 00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:21,840 Speaker 1: So yeah. We the first inaugural class of Next Up 570 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:31,719 Speaker 1: started auguste and we finished the program basically February. We 571 00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:36,600 Speaker 1: had eight participants in the program and all eight had 572 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:40,760 Speaker 1: their shows picked up by iHeart UH with the help 573 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:43,680 Speaker 1: of Toyota, who came in and sponsored the entire Next 574 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,920 Speaker 1: Up initiative, so we were able to pick up all 575 00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 1: their shows and to give an idea. So the initiative 576 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 1: is we bring in. Originally it was supposed to be 577 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:59,880 Speaker 1: only six people, but I just there were certain cuts 578 00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:02,520 Speaker 1: I just could not make, Like I honestly, I became 579 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:06,800 Speaker 1: so emotionally involved I couldn't. It was like cutting off 580 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:09,200 Speaker 1: a limb to cut off certain people from this program, 581 00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:12,520 Speaker 1: you know. And so end up with eight people in 582 00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:16,719 Speaker 1: the program, and we paid for all their equipment, We 583 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:21,879 Speaker 1: paid for all their software, and then they went through 584 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:25,319 Speaker 1: an intensive two week orientation where they basically got like 585 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 1: a crash course in all things podcasting, which thanks to 586 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:32,799 Speaker 1: everyone at my Heart who UH contributed to that, this 587 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:36,160 Speaker 1: is all happened over zoom. After the two weeks, they 588 00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:40,400 Speaker 1: basically started working on their podcasts, which it was a 589 00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:43,440 Speaker 1: six month program. Um. They also got a stipend for 590 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:48,160 Speaker 1: their time, so they were paid during this program. Um. 591 00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:51,440 Speaker 1: And so after six months they had three episodes of 592 00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:57,200 Speaker 1: their podcast completed and a one page document or pitch 593 00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:00,360 Speaker 1: deck whichever they prefer created. So with the help of 594 00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:05,600 Speaker 1: us me Joel Monique, Yes and Yeah, Median and Yeah, 595 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:08,400 Speaker 1: so we helped them put all this together. Uh And 596 00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:11,960 Speaker 1: they also had mentors throughout this process, other I Heart employees, 597 00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:14,960 Speaker 1: and then they were able to pitch their show to 598 00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:18,719 Speaker 1: I Heart, to the development team. Shoutout Bethan uh too 599 00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:22,000 Speaker 1: have their shows picked up and thanks to Toyota, all 600 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 1: their shows were picked up and they're now currently I 601 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:29,080 Speaker 1: believe half have dropped and the other half are basically 602 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:30,960 Speaker 1: coming out. So all year they've been the shows have 603 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,759 Speaker 1: been dropping, which has been incredible. Like we've had so 604 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,680 Speaker 1: many different podcasts come out of it. You know, we 605 00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:41,000 Speaker 1: had Hanai Twitchell, who has a show about Native American 606 00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:47,720 Speaker 1: language revitalization. We have doctor Uh Jonathan Higgins whose show 607 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,200 Speaker 1: is called Black Fat Fem which is all about the 608 00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:55,200 Speaker 1: intersection of being a black person with you know, feminine 609 00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:59,880 Speaker 1: characteristics and being a fat person in America, which you know, 610 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:03,080 Speaker 1: a lot of people are not interested in these sorts 611 00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:05,440 Speaker 1: of stories, but guess what. These people exist and we 612 00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:09,279 Speaker 1: need to hear about their experiences. Maria Diaz is putting 613 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,000 Speaker 1: out a show be out soon called When You're Invisible, 614 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,160 Speaker 1: which is all about the people who work behind the 615 00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:17,320 Speaker 1: scenes too, you know, basically the backbones of this country. 616 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:20,640 Speaker 1: And she actually interviewed the people who cleaned up New 617 00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:22,920 Speaker 1: York after nine eleven, literally the people who had to 618 00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:26,160 Speaker 1: risk their lives literally, like you know, immigrants who went 619 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:29,000 Speaker 1: into the streets and had to clean up the debris 620 00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:34,719 Speaker 1: after our country went through such a tragic experience. You know, 621 00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:37,239 Speaker 1: it's like it's not us doing it. We pay the 622 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:39,879 Speaker 1: people that we don't pay attention to to do all 623 00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:46,439 Speaker 1: the sort of behind the scenes, uh anything. Americans are like, oh, 624 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:47,759 Speaker 1: I don't want to do that, you know, like just 625 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:51,000 Speaker 1: like really horrible. We're like just monsters and we just 626 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:54,480 Speaker 1: pay people to do that. Well, those people, I have 627 00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:57,520 Speaker 1: true experiences and they have their own stories to tell. 628 00:36:57,640 --> 00:36:59,920 Speaker 1: So you know, Maria went to talk to them, you know, 629 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,520 Speaker 1: as she went to talk to the house cleaners, the cooks, 630 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:07,080 Speaker 1: the people who get look down on in our society 631 00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:10,920 Speaker 1: even though they are the people that keep us moving 632 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,080 Speaker 1: every single day. And so yeah, we had a lot 633 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:16,160 Speaker 1: of great shows like that come out of this program, 634 00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:18,920 Speaker 1: and it was like all I could have ever wanted 635 00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:22,640 Speaker 1: was such a dream working with all these incredible creators 636 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:25,040 Speaker 1: who just didn't have an opportunity to get their foot 637 00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:28,239 Speaker 1: in the door in podcasting, because really podcasting is a 638 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,239 Speaker 1: very you know, it might sound easy to get into 639 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:33,000 Speaker 1: your like it's just a mike you talking to it. 640 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:36,840 Speaker 1: It's not. You know, equipment cost money, software cost money, 641 00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:40,320 Speaker 1: training cost money. Like we're using stuff like pro tools 642 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:42,879 Speaker 1: and audition to edit. It's not easy to just come 643 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:45,520 Speaker 1: into these programs and figure it out. It takes time, 644 00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:49,160 Speaker 1: it takes energy. A lot of people don't have that, 645 00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:51,920 Speaker 1: and so they can't tell their stories because it's not 646 00:37:52,040 --> 00:38:01,399 Speaker 1: like a very open industry to anyone. So, oh yeah, 647 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:06,120 Speaker 1: that's kind of what next up is. And we're doing 648 00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:13,120 Speaker 1: the next round of the program starting in January, and 649 00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:16,880 Speaker 1: if you keep your eye out, there is an application 650 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:19,880 Speaker 1: that will be out there which I will give the 651 00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:23,360 Speaker 1: link to Annie and Samantha to put in the description. 652 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:25,160 Speaker 1: So so is that all they need to do if 653 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:27,080 Speaker 1: they are interested in being a part of this program 654 00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:30,879 Speaker 1: to find that link fill out application. Simple as that 655 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:34,399 Speaker 1: it's and it's also like not a give me a 656 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,760 Speaker 1: ten page essay on why you matter. No. I also 657 00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:41,279 Speaker 1: one of the big things about this whole process is like, 658 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,560 Speaker 1: I'm not going to make this a jump through hoops application. 659 00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:47,759 Speaker 1: This application is going to be a simple tell me 660 00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:50,120 Speaker 1: about yourself, Like I hate the things that really make 661 00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:53,239 Speaker 1: it be like you really have to want this, And 662 00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:55,080 Speaker 1: it's like you do have to want it, But I'm 663 00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:59,879 Speaker 1: not going to be the person who demands so much 664 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,400 Speaker 1: to make you prove to me you're worth my time. No, 665 00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:04,640 Speaker 1: this is I don't believe in that kind of stuff. 666 00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:07,120 Speaker 1: I believe in a very egalitarian like I don't care 667 00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:09,960 Speaker 1: what your background is. I don't care what you've experienced, 668 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:13,160 Speaker 1: Like I don't care if you have a resume, I 669 00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:15,280 Speaker 1: don't care if you've ever even looked at an audio 670 00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:18,239 Speaker 1: file before. I just want to know that you're passionate 671 00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:20,919 Speaker 1: about something and interested in being involved in I don't 672 00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:24,160 Speaker 1: need an essay for that. I think a lot of 673 00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:28,279 Speaker 1: like again, like the Americans sort of like system is 674 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:31,080 Speaker 1: like fight to the death, and it's like that to 675 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:34,480 Speaker 1: me is uninteresting. When I see an application that's like 676 00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:39,480 Speaker 1: thirty pages long, I'm like, Okay, hey, all right, that's 677 00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:42,080 Speaker 1: that's a bit much. You don't need that much for 678 00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,680 Speaker 1: me to know anything about me. Like I can tell 679 00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:48,480 Speaker 1: you in a type paragraph my adversity, what I've gone through, 680 00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:51,600 Speaker 1: like how I deal with issues, and what I want 681 00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:55,080 Speaker 1: to do in my life a solid paragraph, I could 682 00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:57,000 Speaker 1: tell you that, And you don't need me to, like, 683 00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:02,520 Speaker 1: you know, pontificate on my feelings and everything i've you know, 684 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:05,680 Speaker 1: add a lot, like it's too much. We need to 685 00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:09,080 Speaker 1: be able to give people opportunities without making them jump 686 00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:12,360 Speaker 1: through a hundred hoops to do so, you know. And 687 00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:14,120 Speaker 1: that's how I've always been up in Like I'm not 688 00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:17,600 Speaker 1: I've never been interested in like the hoop la. I 689 00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:21,320 Speaker 1: just want to I just want to give people opportunities. 690 00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:25,040 Speaker 1: That's it. Make it a simple process, because that's what 691 00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:28,640 Speaker 1: I think. That's what I do. Only think gets people through. 692 00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:32,040 Speaker 1: I think what holds people back, what gate keeps people. 693 00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:35,080 Speaker 1: It's like when you're like, m M, you couldn't write 694 00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:39,040 Speaker 1: forty pages on yourself, and it's like what the whole 695 00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:41,440 Speaker 1: process of college is now where they're like write an 696 00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:46,319 Speaker 1: essay and you're like, I, you know, sure, but like 697 00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:49,720 Speaker 1: I got into college and I think my essay was like, dude, 698 00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:52,120 Speaker 1: being a brown person in those country, we after eleven 699 00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:55,719 Speaker 1: and not chill and I got in. It's like it 700 00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:58,399 Speaker 1: should be as simple as like, I don't like how 701 00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:03,600 Speaker 1: we treat people in this country, right, love that? Yeah. No, 702 00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:07,600 Speaker 1: there is this morbid fascination with getting the most tragic 703 00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:11,160 Speaker 1: stories as possible that people really want to have and 704 00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:14,560 Speaker 1: thrive on other people's tragedy to that level that the 705 00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:16,480 Speaker 1: more tragic is the more likely that you're going to 706 00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:19,520 Speaker 1: be heard. And it becomes problematic in so many ways 707 00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:22,440 Speaker 1: obviously because that's the whole level of white saviorism, Like 708 00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:25,359 Speaker 1: all this level of like, uh, feeling like you have 709 00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:28,440 Speaker 1: to be at this door to get hurt or seen 710 00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:32,120 Speaker 1: or to be dead before you recognize uh anything, or 711 00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:34,879 Speaker 1: even talking about the problems that you face. That's part 712 00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:37,640 Speaker 1: of that problem. And also feel very seen because when 713 00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:40,480 Speaker 1: it comes to writing in or trying to make a point, 714 00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:43,200 Speaker 1: I am that bad storyteller that just says the one 715 00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:45,799 Speaker 1: line that's important and forgets the detail. But I'm like, 716 00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:50,440 Speaker 1: and that's my story, so thank you and for seeing 717 00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:56,240 Speaker 1: me in my bad storytelling. Ye, I mean, yeah, there's 718 00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:58,600 Speaker 1: like that sort of like I don't need anyone to 719 00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:01,440 Speaker 1: be college educated, Like, I just need you to be 720 00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:04,759 Speaker 1: passionate about wanting to tell your story, and that's all 721 00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:19,640 Speaker 1: I need. It's all need. I kind of think you've 722 00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:22,880 Speaker 1: already answered this question, but just to kind of relay, 723 00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:25,680 Speaker 1: why do you think initiatives like the one that you've 724 00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:28,960 Speaker 1: created with Next Up are so important, especially for our industry, 725 00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:35,360 Speaker 1: because I think opportunity for people who are gate kept 726 00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:39,239 Speaker 1: is very key. Like to me, I'm like, why are 727 00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:43,480 Speaker 1: we making it so hard for people to podcast? Like 728 00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:50,680 Speaker 1: I don't think it's necessary. I think it's almost like 729 00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:56,680 Speaker 1: embarrassing how self important we've made podcasting, Like it shouldn't 730 00:42:56,719 --> 00:43:01,040 Speaker 1: be so hard to tell your story like that. That's 731 00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:08,160 Speaker 1: why I think it's important. I don't believe that podcasting 732 00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:14,840 Speaker 1: is this grand sort of wow, like what like certain 733 00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:20,520 Speaker 1: podcasts that take themselves so seriously and truly believe they're 734 00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:24,560 Speaker 1: doing like the Lord's work. I'm like, are you what 735 00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:28,040 Speaker 1: is going on here? You're talking into a microphone. Yes, 736 00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:32,120 Speaker 1: it's well researched. Anyone can pay for a well researched podcast, 737 00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:37,520 Speaker 1: like you just have money. It just relax a little. 738 00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:40,480 Speaker 1: I don't know, I just think that's sort of scene 739 00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:45,000 Speaker 1: within podcasting is too much. And so that's and of 740 00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:48,160 Speaker 1: course that's a personal opinion, and that's just like why 741 00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:52,560 Speaker 1: I think we just need more voices, more people. I 742 00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:56,839 Speaker 1: don't think there should be any gate keeping whatsoever in podcasting. 743 00:43:56,880 --> 00:44:01,279 Speaker 1: And I understand when you use programs like pro Tools, 744 00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:05,759 Speaker 1: like it's unfortunate that it's such a tough program to 745 00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:10,040 Speaker 1: get into, to break into. And I think I taught 746 00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:12,120 Speaker 1: myself a lot of how to use pro tools. I'm 747 00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:15,600 Speaker 1: lucky that I had college courses that taught me how 748 00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:19,160 Speaker 1: to use audio editing programs. Not a lot of people 749 00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:22,040 Speaker 1: get that opportunity. I'm like, very lucky, and that I 750 00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:25,640 Speaker 1: got that opportunity that my college even offered those courses. 751 00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:29,480 Speaker 1: So then like, why would I not take that opportunity 752 00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:31,960 Speaker 1: to then make it easier for other people to get in, 753 00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:34,879 Speaker 1: you know, Like I don't. I don't like the idea 754 00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:38,640 Speaker 1: of taking my privilege and gate keeping with it. You know. 755 00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:41,520 Speaker 1: It's like, no, take your privilege and open a door 756 00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:44,920 Speaker 1: for someone else. And again, it's it's me opening a 757 00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:48,040 Speaker 1: door for eight people. That's a very small step in 758 00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:50,200 Speaker 1: the grand scheme of things, but that's all it takes. 759 00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:53,000 Speaker 1: It's like I said earlier, it's just like one small step, 760 00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:57,759 Speaker 1: one small hand over something, you know, like I give 761 00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:02,399 Speaker 1: one dollar to you, Okay, you know. It's like it's 762 00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:04,400 Speaker 1: just you have to do the small things that you 763 00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:11,360 Speaker 1: can do in order to move, you know, things very slightly, 764 00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:13,439 Speaker 1: which is all we can do because again, like I said, 765 00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:16,160 Speaker 1: as Americans, you can't get one big push. Everyone's like 766 00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:20,560 Speaker 1: what you know, like we can't even get a woman president, 767 00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:25,239 Speaker 1: Like we're still not even there yet, you know. But 768 00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:29,919 Speaker 1: does the little things matter? And I think people don't 769 00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:31,880 Speaker 1: really understand that. They go, like, but it's too small, 770 00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:33,719 Speaker 1: what difference is going to make? But it's like if 771 00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:36,520 Speaker 1: everyone does something small, it does make a difference. So 772 00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:41,560 Speaker 1: that's how I feel. I love it. Before we wrap up, 773 00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:44,759 Speaker 1: do you have any advice you'd like to give to 774 00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:47,960 Speaker 1: people who are like starting in podcasts, who have a 775 00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:51,480 Speaker 1: podcast and want to do more with it. Yeah, if 776 00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:54,480 Speaker 1: you have a podcast, just keep working on. I think 777 00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:57,839 Speaker 1: people get very discouraged when their show doesn't pop off. 778 00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:01,640 Speaker 1: It's very hard to pop off a show. Um, because 779 00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:05,640 Speaker 1: podcasting is such an impacted space. I don't think that 780 00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:09,759 Speaker 1: should stop you because like so like I how I 781 00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:12,319 Speaker 1: like think about my podcast Ethnically Ambigios. It's not a 782 00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:16,440 Speaker 1: huge podcast, but if it's just like one person feels 783 00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:18,759 Speaker 1: less alone because of my show, then I feel like 784 00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:21,480 Speaker 1: I'm like, Okay, that's enough for me, you know. I 785 00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:25,680 Speaker 1: think small steps should be looked at in like a 786 00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:31,319 Speaker 1: bigger light, because it's hard in this world to make 787 00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:35,680 Speaker 1: something that everyone appreciates. But I think if you make 788 00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:38,920 Speaker 1: something you appreciate and you think is good, then I 789 00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:42,080 Speaker 1: think you should keep going at it. I also don't 790 00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:45,640 Speaker 1: believe podcasting making a great podcast should be as hard 791 00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:49,120 Speaker 1: as people try and make it seem. Just if you 792 00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:51,680 Speaker 1: are doing something about like a topic, just like read 793 00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:54,000 Speaker 1: you know, read about it, do your research and you 794 00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:58,959 Speaker 1: can talk honestly. And there's luckily, there are so many 795 00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:02,480 Speaker 1: really good cheap USB mics now, Like you can get 796 00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:05,479 Speaker 1: a cheap us B mic and record into Garage Band, 797 00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:08,800 Speaker 1: which is a program that's already on your computer, or 798 00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:12,400 Speaker 1: you can record into Audacity. Like there's like these different 799 00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:15,359 Speaker 1: programs that you can get for free that you can 800 00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:18,399 Speaker 1: record into. And you can get a cheap USB mic 801 00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:22,520 Speaker 1: for like to thirty to forty bucks. It's not gonna 802 00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:24,920 Speaker 1: be the best best mike, but it's something to start 803 00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:27,319 Speaker 1: with and you can go from there. And you can 804 00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:33,480 Speaker 1: also work with different platforms like libs in anchor FM, 805 00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:35,880 Speaker 1: Like there's all these like platforms that allow you to 806 00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:40,960 Speaker 1: pay by the amount of audio like storage you want 807 00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:42,640 Speaker 1: to upload if you will, so it's like you know, 808 00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:45,960 Speaker 1: m B too, like whatever, hundred gigs, or you can 809 00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:50,120 Speaker 1: pay by a certain plan to host your podcast, and 810 00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:52,879 Speaker 1: a lot of these programs you can apply for their 811 00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:56,360 Speaker 1: like ad Whiz sort of where they basically help you 812 00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:58,200 Speaker 1: sell ads on your show. It's not gonna be a 813 00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:00,840 Speaker 1: ton of money, but it's like these little small steps 814 00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:03,040 Speaker 1: that will help you grow your show. So there's a 815 00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:05,400 Speaker 1: lot of different things you can do as an independent 816 00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:09,200 Speaker 1: podcast or to work on your show. And also there's 817 00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:12,239 Speaker 1: different ways to promote your show, which is like what 818 00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:14,120 Speaker 1: I used to do back in the day. I would 819 00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:18,880 Speaker 1: go to like every news like l A Times, whatever, 820 00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:21,520 Speaker 1: like all these different sites and just like look at 821 00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:26,759 Speaker 1: their editorial boards and see who writes about what you're 822 00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:29,520 Speaker 1: talking about on your show, get their email, make a 823 00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:33,160 Speaker 1: little like a press release, which is pretty simply literally 824 00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:35,960 Speaker 1: google what press releases look like and mimic them and 825 00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:39,200 Speaker 1: then send press releases for your show, Like there's these 826 00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:41,879 Speaker 1: little steps you can take that like, look, at first, 827 00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:43,720 Speaker 1: people are gonna be like what and ignoring your email, 828 00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:46,879 Speaker 1: But if you consistently do it every month, someone will 829 00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:49,560 Speaker 1: respond like, oh okay. You know, like it's these little 830 00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:51,480 Speaker 1: things that you just have to do if you're doing 831 00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:55,880 Speaker 1: something independently, that are actually very possible, and people just 832 00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:59,279 Speaker 1: like don't tell you how to do it, and I 833 00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:01,040 Speaker 1: just had to figure it myself, you know, And I 834 00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:03,919 Speaker 1: just would like Google or you know, if there's something 835 00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:06,600 Speaker 1: you want to do on like an editing app but 836 00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:09,680 Speaker 1: you don't know how dude. YouTube everyone is telling you 837 00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:12,080 Speaker 1: how to do everything on YouTube. I how to do 838 00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:14,719 Speaker 1: everything on YouTube. If I have to do something on 839 00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:17,560 Speaker 1: photoshop and I'm like, wait, what how do I do that? 840 00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:20,839 Speaker 1: I just google it, guess what some person has been 841 00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:25,120 Speaker 1: like in depth explaining it for years. And that's like 842 00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:28,000 Speaker 1: the incredible thing. You can watch anything on YouTube and 843 00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:32,239 Speaker 1: learn how to do everything. And yeah, I just you know, 844 00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:37,600 Speaker 1: those are my little small tips to success in podcasting. 845 00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:42,880 Speaker 1: Excellent tips. I feel like Samantha and I are taking 846 00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:49,799 Speaker 1: notes for us well. And I thank you, thank you, 847 00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:52,680 Speaker 1: thank you so much for being here. It was a delight. Um. 848 00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:54,440 Speaker 1: We would love to have you back again. Can you 849 00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:57,239 Speaker 1: tell the good listeners where they can find you? Yes. 850 00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:02,239 Speaker 1: You can follow me on Twitter at Anna host n 851 00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:04,640 Speaker 1: A A N N A h O S S n 852 00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:06,239 Speaker 1: I e H. You could tweet at me if you 853 00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:08,560 Speaker 1: have any questions about podcasting. I'll respond if I see 854 00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:10,279 Speaker 1: it all respond. As long as you're not being mean 855 00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:13,400 Speaker 1: to me, I usually will respond to you. You can 856 00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:17,279 Speaker 1: follow me on Instagram at Selling Hosts which is s 857 00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:19,360 Speaker 1: E L L I N G H O S S 858 00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:22,640 Speaker 1: N I e H. Which again, if you d m me, 859 00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:24,759 Speaker 1: I will see it and if you're not being mean 860 00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:26,440 Speaker 1: to me almost likely respond to you. If you have 861 00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:28,719 Speaker 1: a question or want to talk about something, or if 862 00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:30,359 Speaker 1: you're like, how do I get into next up? I'll 863 00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:34,600 Speaker 1: tell you I'm very much open to helping people get 864 00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:38,239 Speaker 1: into podcasting or you know, anything. As long as you're 865 00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:40,480 Speaker 1: not being mean to me. I'm a very sensitive soul, 866 00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:44,319 Speaker 1: then I will respond to you. And you can check 867 00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:47,840 Speaker 1: out my podcast Ethnically Ambiguous that I host with Shrine 868 00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:50,239 Speaker 1: Lani Unez. We're on I Heart Just. You can search 869 00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:52,440 Speaker 1: ethnically a Videos podcast and we'll pop up. We're on 870 00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:55,799 Speaker 1: all the platforms. Uh and then yeah, I mean if 871 00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:58,520 Speaker 1: you follow me on social media, you'll see like all 872 00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:01,400 Speaker 1: the other shows I promoted all times, and you'll know 873 00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:05,520 Speaker 1: that I work on them. Yes, yes, it's quite quite 874 00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:09,200 Speaker 1: a for you. It's very impressive. How you sleeping, but okay, 875 00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:13,200 Speaker 1: I'm not you guys are not sleeping. I don't know. Okay, well, 876 00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:18,960 Speaker 1: and we will post the link to the next step 877 00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:21,640 Speaker 1: initiative for any listeners who are interested. We very much 878 00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:25,839 Speaker 1: encourage you to apply. And yeah, it's it's so much 879 00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:29,959 Speaker 1: amazing stuff you're doing in so thank you again, Thank you, 880 00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:32,160 Speaker 1: Thank you guys. Yes, and if you would like to 881 00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:34,480 Speaker 1: contact us listeners, you can or email stuff you Ner 882 00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:36,239 Speaker 1: mom Stuff at I hurt meia dot com. You can 883 00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:38,200 Speaker 1: find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast, our Instagram 884 00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:40,040 Speaker 1: and Stuff I Never Told You. Thanks as always started 885 00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:42,640 Speaker 1: super producer Christina, Thank you Christina, and thanks to you 886 00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:45,000 Speaker 1: for listening Stuff in our Told's Protection by Heart Radio. 887 00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:46,520 Speaker 1: For more podcast from my Heart Radio, you can check 888 00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:48,480 Speaker 1: out the heart Radio app Apple podcast wherever you listen 889 00:51:48,520 --> 00:52:00,640 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.