WEBVTT - QLS Classic: Alan Leeds (Part 1) 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:06.640 Of course, Love Supreme is a production of My Heart Radio. 0:00:07.120 --> 0:00:10.480 This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:18.560 The following program contains language that some listeners may find offensive. 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:23.639 Listener discretion is advised. Ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the 0:00:23.880 --> 0:00:27.760 Quest Love Supreme Archives. This is the Allen Leeds episode. 0:00:27.960 --> 0:00:31.000 I believe that Alan was definitely uh. In one of 0:00:31.040 --> 0:00:34.879 our first ten episodes, UH, the team Supreme made a 0:00:34.920 --> 0:00:39.440 pilgrimage to Minnesota to talk to the revolution and UH. 0:00:39.640 --> 0:00:41.880 We figured since Alan Leeds was there, we knock off 0:00:41.920 --> 0:00:45.080 two for one, and of course it was an education. 0:00:45.479 --> 0:00:49.240 We did UH sort of a sequel to that episode. 0:00:49.600 --> 0:00:52.920 We did it in two locations at Electric Lady Studios 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:58.240 in New York, with a special appearance by one Michael 0:00:58.440 --> 0:01:03.920 Eugene D'Angelo Archer, who infamously gave us uh the shortest 0:01:03.920 --> 0:01:07.840 response ever. It's more R and B Anyway. This is 0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:13.480 the very classic edgeumicational Allen Leeds given you before one 0:01:13.520 --> 0:01:16.360 one the signs of his life as a tour manager 0:01:16.640 --> 0:01:29.440 on whatets Love Supreme Archives. Roll Call, Roll Call Suprema 0:01:31.560 --> 0:01:39.880 Role Role, It's love and Uptown. Yeah, that's where I live. Yeah, 0:01:40.040 --> 0:01:47.680 hang with Allen Leeds. Yeah, five minutes Kid Bollamo, role 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:55.880 called Supremo role. My name is Fonte. Yeah, I'm in Minnesota. Yeah. 0:01:56.000 --> 0:02:04.000 Quests Love Supreme. Yeah, we're taken over. So prema roll call, 0:02:04.440 --> 0:02:09.919 so prema road call. My name is Steve, Yeah, and 0:02:10.120 --> 0:02:14.160 we in Many Yeah. I got the sugars. Yeah, even 0:02:14.160 --> 0:02:25.560 though I'm skinny. Roll call so roll. I'm unpaid bill, Yeah, 0:02:25.840 --> 0:02:30.480 I can't complain. Yeah, the weather's right. Yeah for purple 0:02:30.600 --> 0:02:40.320 rain Roma. Roll call Suprima Prima, roll call boss bills 0:02:40.320 --> 0:02:43.520 the name. Yeah, I need to stay in my lane. Yeah, 0:02:43.600 --> 0:02:50.720 because I can't write rhymes. And that's a real damn change. 0:02:51.040 --> 0:02:57.720 Roll call Soma, roll call my names like yeah, so 0:02:57.800 --> 0:03:02.000 happy to see you. Yeah, don't have a leads sometimes, 0:03:02.000 --> 0:03:31.720 I believe sometimes. Ye, Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another 0:03:32.040 --> 0:03:35.600 episode of Quest Love Supreme. How y'all doing good man? 0:03:35.760 --> 0:03:42.960 Road trip? Yeah, road trip. It's amazing trip. Ladies and gentlemen, 0:03:43.000 --> 0:03:46.800 we are still on our road trip thing. Uh up 0:03:46.800 --> 0:03:54.560 here in Uptown many Wood, Minnesota. UM. We are very extremely, 0:03:54.800 --> 0:04:00.520 extremely honored to have um a guest that I know 0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:06.520 it's personally tired of me bragging about his life and 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:12.720 his achievements. Um, but you know his real life. Yeah, 0:04:12.720 --> 0:04:15.960 it is is serious life goals. I mean I'll say 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:22.400 that it's it's he's tired of No, well, it's just 0:04:22.600 --> 0:04:25.920 to me the most interesting part of the car. I mean, 0:04:26.000 --> 0:04:28.120 people might see the car and see the flash, but 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:32.600 I love engines, I love yes, I love to see 0:04:32.600 --> 0:04:37.440 how it works. And this this, I mean name it. 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:42.320 Alan Leeds has been there for Peak, James Brown, not 0:04:42.400 --> 0:04:46.200 just like oh remember James Brown, the Blues Brothers or that, 0:04:47.400 --> 0:04:50.560 like yeah, like even before must at like this is 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:54.000 you know, he handed him the poster that has the 0:04:54.000 --> 0:04:58.920 sex Machine lyrics on it. For James Brown, for Peak, Prime, prints, 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:05.320 for this, for Maxwell, for D'Angelo, for Chris Rock, for 0:05:05.440 --> 0:05:10.040 Rathael Sadeck, for me, for you ladies and gentlemen, please 0:05:10.080 --> 0:05:19.400 give it up. For Alan Leads And I'm still waiting 0:05:19.440 --> 0:05:26.800 for my first record to come out. Um, Alan, like 0:05:26.920 --> 0:05:31.080 you do you know, I know it makes people cringe 0:05:31.120 --> 0:05:34.240 whenever I try to like overdo it with the with them. 0:05:34.400 --> 0:05:37.120 She accolades. Um, so I'll try and do less of that. 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:41.600 But um, and I know you hate that more than anything, 0:05:41.720 --> 0:05:46.680 but only publicly you at home, I played the tapes 0:05:46.720 --> 0:05:53.400 over and over see this is me. Well you know, well, 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:56.480 I guess if if we are cut from the same 0:05:56.520 --> 0:06:00.640 cloth as the fact that you know the value in 0:06:02.160 --> 0:06:06.120 uh what history will bring or you you least have 0:06:06.279 --> 0:06:10.320 the knack to know that this might be uh in 0:06:10.320 --> 0:06:13.240 a historical moment. So I'm one of those sentimental pack 0:06:13.400 --> 0:06:19.119 rats that never throws anything away just in case it'll 0:06:19.160 --> 0:06:21.479 have historical value at the end. And I will say, 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:24.839 like being at your house, there's so many artifacts and 0:06:25.000 --> 0:06:27.360 so so much history in it, but I kind of 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:29.760 want to go back to the beginning. Uh, you were 0:06:29.800 --> 0:06:33.839 born in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Correct, New York. You were born 0:06:33.839 --> 0:06:37.159 in New York. Wow, all these New York surprises. Where 0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:41.719 were you born in New York, Jackson Queens? Wow? I 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:44.599 did not. I thought I knew everything about your life. Wow, 0:06:44.760 --> 0:06:48.760 I didn't know. So what was your what was your 0:06:48.800 --> 0:06:52.440 childhood like? Because the journey, what what makes Alan leads 0:06:52.560 --> 0:06:57.360 very distinctive amongst uh any human being that I've known, 0:06:57.640 --> 0:07:04.599 is that your role in Black Entertainment's journey and the 0:07:04.760 --> 0:07:08.320 fact that you, I mean, a person is lucky to 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:12.680 catch one Maverick in their life. You've caught six of 0:07:12.720 --> 0:07:16.760 them and peak moments, not just like at the at 0:07:16.800 --> 0:07:19.960 the like you from the beginning of an experiment to 0:07:20.720 --> 0:07:24.680 seeing it at its climax. And in his historical note, 0:07:25.000 --> 0:07:29.560 so what was your entry into music period, like, did 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:31.960 you come from a musical family where I came from 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:36.160 a music business family kind of indirectly ahead an uncle 0:07:36.200 --> 0:07:41.720 who played saxophone in the orchestra that backed Prairie Como Okay, TV, 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:46.240 had another uncle who was programmed director of Tinton Wins 0:07:46.280 --> 0:07:48.760 in New York when they were the rock and roll station, 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:53.200 Tinton Wins. He pretty much invented the top forty four men, 0:07:53.600 --> 0:07:57.080 and he and Alan Fried Murray the k all these 0:07:57.160 --> 0:08:00.400 legendary disc jockeys on his station. And I would go 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:02.520 out there and I met these guys and get tons 0:08:02.520 --> 0:08:07.240 of free records. So as a kid, my childhood was 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:10.280 really about baseball and records because and I also had 0:08:10.280 --> 0:08:13.560 an aunt who work for a publishing company, Monster Clients, 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:17.440 was a young Quincy Jones Okay, So you know, I 0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:20.440 had these people in the extended family that were very 0:08:20.480 --> 0:08:22.760 much in the business. My mom and dad were not, 0:08:23.000 --> 0:08:27.480 but but they were music fans. Um. So free records 0:08:27.560 --> 0:08:30.160 was just the records was the thing that was at 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:32.800 I was a very popular kid once we hit teenage, 0:08:32.880 --> 0:08:36.200 and everybody wanted records because I had them, just like 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:41.320 you need no No. I wasn't then interested in sharing 0:08:41.400 --> 0:08:44.000 him because usually I didn't like the records they liked. 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:48.199 So what were your contemporaries listening to that They weren't 0:08:48.200 --> 0:08:51.679 listening to Elvis and Ricky Nelson and whatever was on 0:08:51.760 --> 0:08:54.880 top forty radio. And what were you into? He was 0:08:54.920 --> 0:08:59.479 Smith and Clowns and the coasters and Jack Barry and Richard. 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:03.320 You were the the the hip guy, the hip white 0:09:03.360 --> 0:09:06.080 guy that knew what was going on in duke joints. 0:09:06.080 --> 0:09:08.840 And yeah, well, I mean I don't know a juke 0:09:08.920 --> 0:09:11.319 joint yet. I just knew that in these boxes and 0:09:11.440 --> 0:09:14.600 records that my uncle would send me, there were always these, 0:09:15.280 --> 0:09:17.280 you know, there were all the pop records that were 0:09:17.320 --> 0:09:20.160 boring looking labels like calling me in our Cia and 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:23.839 Capital and Decca, and they just looked like, you know, 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:27.440 I already had an anti establishment attitude about age five. 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:30.920 I don't know where, but it was like, these are 0:09:30.920 --> 0:09:35.319 some boring labels, um, but didn't there's this label that's 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:40.080 got yellow and black stripes and it's called Specialty Records, 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:44.840 and that was Little Richard and Tutti Fruity did not 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:48.920 sound like any of that other stuff. Um, the first 0:09:48.960 --> 0:09:52.120 Little Richard recordized. That's actually a funny story. The first 0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:55.240 Little Richard record I heard was Long Tall Sally, which 0:09:55.360 --> 0:09:59.280 was his second hit single, and I heard it on 0:09:59.400 --> 0:10:02.520 Alan Freed radio show, and I looked ballistic, like, what 0:10:02.600 --> 0:10:04.640 the hell is this? I got to have this record? 0:10:05.480 --> 0:10:08.360 And I remember telling my mother that I had to 0:10:08.440 --> 0:10:10.600 had to had to have an advance on my allotment 0:10:10.679 --> 0:10:12.400 so I could go to the store and buy this 0:10:12.400 --> 0:10:14.840 this forty five that ED heard on the radio. And 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:20.199 she's like, what is it? Is it new knacking Cole record? 0:10:21.520 --> 0:10:24.200 Right now? Mind you are, let's see fifty six. I'm 0:10:24.280 --> 0:10:27.480 nine years old. So she took me to the record 0:10:27.480 --> 0:10:29.360 store and she says, I, I've never seen you so 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:32.360 enthusiastic about something. So she's dying to see what this is, 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:34.560 so would bring the record home. I put it on 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:37.280 and play it and she just has a steer in 0:10:37.320 --> 0:10:41.920 the headlights. Look. That wasn't negative or positive, it was 0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:45.920 just what the hell is this? And I remember saying 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:48.160 to her, becasey never let me forget it my isn't 0:10:48.200 --> 0:10:53.559 it pretty? Wow? Now? You know, I've heard that record 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:56.439 a million times since, and I'm not sure. The only 0:10:56.480 --> 0:10:58.880 thing that, as an adult I can think that I 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:01.920 would have thought was pretty was the melisma in this 0:11:02.080 --> 0:11:05.120 singing style. Because it's a it's a screamer. I mean, 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:08.440 it's it's not like it's a ballad. So to use 0:11:08.480 --> 0:11:11.480 the word pretty to describe long til sadly but a 0:11:11.559 --> 0:11:15.120 little Richard is pretty much a stretch. But there was 0:11:15.160 --> 0:11:17.599 something about it that struck me. What's yeah, I was 0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:21.000 gonna say, what spoke to you that the Battle Davy 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:24.600 Crockett or you know well, I mean I've watched that 0:11:25.640 --> 0:11:29.720 corny and you knew even me, it's almost understand me. 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:34.080 I like that concole I also had and you know, 0:11:34.120 --> 0:11:36.040 I get me very careful about this because it's not 0:11:36.400 --> 0:11:40.720 politically correct, but I had an obsession with black culture 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:45.600 and I have no idea where that came from. You know, 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:48.120 I would watch it and watch the same TV that 0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:51.560 everybody else watched, which was very limited in you know, 0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:55.160 you once, once Dick Clark had American Band staying at 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:57.840 least there was something different. But you know then that 0:11:57.920 --> 0:12:01.400 it was. It was variety shows would very little are 0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:05.520 and be a rock and roll and I enjoyed nacking, 0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:08.120 but I always went to the black artists. I love 0:12:08.240 --> 0:12:11.480 Louis Armstrong, I love Count Basie, I love Nat King 0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:16.760 Cole something Natra, I ignored. My father likes Sinatra. It 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:19.000 was played in the house. It was like, yeah, that's okay, 0:12:19.040 --> 0:12:21.080 But I was I didn't pay any attention at all. 0:12:21.640 --> 0:12:23.559 Did you read it as more authentic to you or 0:12:23.679 --> 0:12:29.640 just eventually not yet because I hadn't been exposed to it. 0:12:30.559 --> 0:12:34.079 But once I, once I started actually taking books out 0:12:34.080 --> 0:12:36.120 of the library to read about the history of black 0:12:36.200 --> 0:12:40.120 music and heard about people like Lightning Hopkins and Howlett 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:42.319 Wolf and I of course I had to go check 0:12:42.360 --> 0:12:45.200 those out. But that that came later. That came in 0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:48.440 my teens, where I was beginning to actually understand that 0:12:48.520 --> 0:12:51.920 there's genres, and there's tastes, and there's the music comes 0:12:51.960 --> 0:12:54.880 from somewhere and represents something. But as a little kid 0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:57.400 listening nine years old, you don't know all that. It's 0:12:57.520 --> 0:13:02.000 it's no, there's no cultural aspect to it. You just 0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:04.560 heard something and you don't liked it, or you did 0:13:04.559 --> 0:13:08.040 it so no, I mean I like white rock and 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:12.040 roll too, like Bill Haley and the comments, but basically 0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:15.800 because I hadn't heard Joe Turner's original of those songs. Okay, 0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:20.480 that's what was on radio. So did Can I assume 0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:25.720 that the trickle down effect also affected your little brother Eric? 0:13:26.440 --> 0:13:31.400 We should know Eric is uh a saxophone uh god 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:34.400 in his own right, uh play with James Brown Prince 0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:39.600 of course his own projects. So it is are your 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:42.920 music taste now affecting him as well? Or yeah? I 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:46.480 think inevitably. Um, not so much because it was about 0:13:46.559 --> 0:13:48.880 me and my taste, but just because when you have 0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:51.840 two brothers in the house and once five years younger 0:13:53.280 --> 0:13:56.360 older brother who's opening a lot of doors and whatever doors, 0:13:56.400 --> 0:13:58.480 will you know if I'd have been into country music, 0:13:58.520 --> 0:14:01.640 he might have been attracted to at I think it 0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:04.320 was just circumstantial at first because this is when he 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:07.360 heard me playing, and it's older brother. And when you're 0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:09.360 five and your brother's ten, you look up to your 0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:14.920 older brother. So when you changes later now in your 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:18.280 teen years, because I know that you you did stints 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:21.680 on on radio and whatnot, like what was your entry 0:14:21.720 --> 0:14:26.400 into this is the business? That's there's really two answers 0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:30.280 that the the first time I knew I wanted to 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:32.200 be in the I mean I did use the DJ 0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:37.360 at home. I had a turntable and a really really 0:14:37.840 --> 0:14:41.440 primitive walkie talkie system and ran the court across the 0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:44.800 hall to my brother's bedroom and I would DJ for 0:14:44.920 --> 0:14:49.000 him and you know, actually touched it and had my 0:14:49.080 --> 0:14:52.160 own top forty lists that I typed up every Friday 0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:55.880 from my imagineering radio station that nobody heard but my brother. 0:14:57.560 --> 0:15:00.760 So that was practice. But that was just was all 0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:02.360 I wanted to do when I got home from school, 0:15:02.400 --> 0:15:06.080 was played these records. Somebody had to hear it because 0:15:06.080 --> 0:15:09.000 it was pretty stupid talking to myself. So he became 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:11.400 the sucker. That was, he was the guinea pig audience 0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:14.600 because you had to have when he felt dumb. So 0:15:15.480 --> 0:15:19.200 but I went to the first the first R and 0:15:19.280 --> 0:15:24.440 B he showed that I saw. It was in nineteen 0:15:24.600 --> 0:15:27.920 sixty two, so I would have been fifteen years old, 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:35.120 and it was Fats Domino. It was the Impressions Curtis 0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:38.720 made Field when we were still the Impressions, the original 0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:41.200 Gypsy Woman that just come out, So it was very 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:45.720 very early in the Impressions. Um I don't honestly remember 0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:47.560 who else was on the show. I could look it up, 0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:50.640 it doesn't matter, But I'll tell you what was on 0:15:50.680 --> 0:15:57.160 the show was five dancers called the Twisting Parquettes. And 0:15:57.320 --> 0:15:59.760 I later learned that there was a choreographer in New 0:15:59.840 --> 0:16:02.480 York or Glue Parks, a woman who was became quite 0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:07.800 famous for choreographing um popular dance in black music circles, 0:16:07.840 --> 0:16:10.560 and these were some of her proteges. So they were 0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:12.600 the Twisting Parquettes. And this is back in the ear 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:15.160 when the twist was a big deal. But as a 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:17.720 fifteen year old looking at these five sisters and they 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:20.400 had short, little skirts and there was nothing nasty about 0:16:20.400 --> 0:16:23.440 it at all compared to today, they were conservative. But 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:31.360 at the time, that ship was hot and I sat there. 0:16:32.080 --> 0:16:34.600 I don't remember anything about Fats Domhindo said, because I 0:16:34.640 --> 0:16:36.840 was sitting there day dreaming, how do you get on 0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:41.000 the bus. These girls ride a bus every night, and 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:42.880 how do you get on that bus so you can 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:49.680 hang with them? Bus driver, I thought, I thought a 0:16:49.720 --> 0:16:54.800 little bigger than that, but you know, but you know, 0:16:54.880 --> 0:16:56.880 there was an m C and I said, maybe that's 0:16:56.920 --> 0:16:59.240 the ticket, because you know, I don't think I don't play. 0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:01.920 Probably should have been a musician, but I never had 0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:04.560 the patience to learn instrument I took drums for two 0:17:04.560 --> 0:17:08.160 weeks and the teacher got mad at me for tapping 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:12.840 my foot to keep time. If he would have explained easier, 0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:17.280 but I mean, you know, if if he had, if 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:20.200 he had explained that you need independence to play high 0:17:20.280 --> 0:17:24.160 hats and bass drums, and you shouldn't. You don't want 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:27.240 to have the habit of patting your foot, I wouldn't. 0:17:27.880 --> 0:17:30.400 I think I would have understood that. But he didn't 0:17:30.440 --> 0:17:32.600 say a word except just slap my knee and tell 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:35.840 me to stop. So the anti authority in me lashed 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:37.880 out and said, the hell, we're too Plus we were 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:43.080 on practice pats was the second week, Yeah, trust me, 0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:45.439 I didn't test the drums still, like three years into it, 0:17:45.680 --> 0:17:49.359 yeah yeah, And that was no fun. So so my 0:17:49.520 --> 0:17:52.679 drumming career consisted of turning over the waste baskets at 0:17:52.720 --> 0:17:56.040 home and creating a set and playing loaned records, and 0:17:56.080 --> 0:17:59.080 I had good time. I was about to say, I 0:17:59.160 --> 0:18:01.840 never asked you, like, why didn't you actually choose music? 0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:05.760 Because as virtuoso as your brother is, I would imagine 0:18:05.800 --> 0:18:12.400 that you could have also been a virtuoso musician. I'm 0:18:12.480 --> 0:18:16.080 usually pretty humble, but I probably would have been. I 0:18:16.160 --> 0:18:22.159 probably could have played It's stuck to something wow. But 0:18:22.560 --> 0:18:25.520 I never settled. I never fell in love with an instrument. 0:18:25.800 --> 0:18:29.960 Drums were easy because it was physical, it wasn't melodic, 0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:35.000 didn't have to learn music, you know, chords, and so 0:18:35.320 --> 0:18:39.200 I was lazy. Really, I just didn't have the commitment 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:43.320 of the self discipline to put into learning how to 0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:46.600 play an instrument properly. And honestly, I think that's it's 0:18:46.760 --> 0:18:49.640 it's just just lazy and like self discipline. That's weird 0:18:49.640 --> 0:18:58.040 because you're the most organized person I know. We are 0:18:58.320 --> 0:19:03.399 here with the great Alan Leeds um here on Quest 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:08.240 Love Supreme. I guess you're you're you're foray into uh 0:19:08.560 --> 0:19:11.600 what I knew you for, which is tour managing? Um? 0:19:11.880 --> 0:19:15.359 Can I safely assume that starts with James Brown? Or 0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:17.720 you know? Did you or is it that you jump 0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:22.360 from DJing too promoting your own shows? And well I did. 0:19:22.440 --> 0:19:25.240 I did a little promoting because myself and another couple 0:19:25.280 --> 0:19:28.280 of younger DJs at the station, I mean the station 0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:31.639 basically advertise to and or promoted all the urn V 0:19:31.760 --> 0:19:34.640 shows they came through Richmond, which were a lot at 0:19:34.640 --> 0:19:36.600 that time. They were three or four clubs that had 0:19:36.600 --> 0:19:40.520 shows every weekend. There were concert halls that had concerts 0:19:40.640 --> 0:19:43.399 on that rege once or twice a month, so it 0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:46.199 was a really busy scene. Anybody who played Washington and 0:19:46.320 --> 0:19:49.760 was headed south came through Richmond. So you know, the 0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:53.480 Otis Ridings, the same cooks to Jackie Wilson's, the Drifters. 0:19:53.520 --> 0:19:56.840 You know, all the classic soul artists came through town 0:19:56.880 --> 0:20:01.080 at least two, three, and sometimes four times a year. Okay, 0:20:01.280 --> 0:20:03.679 So are you saying that it was just they happened 0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:06.840 to stop through or was it like today things are 0:20:06.840 --> 0:20:09.600 playing like? You know, No, they were both. These were 0:20:09.720 --> 0:20:13.600 legitimate businesses. There were clubs and promoters and concert promoters 0:20:13.800 --> 0:20:17.840 and these were real shows. But but understand something too, 0:20:17.880 --> 0:20:21.920 because artists didn't tour back then. They worked, and they 0:20:21.920 --> 0:20:24.480 worked as many weeks out of the year as their 0:20:25.400 --> 0:20:28.879 success on records allowed them to work. Because it wasn't 0:20:28.920 --> 0:20:31.960 like it wasn't huge money and they weren't playing arenas, 0:20:32.040 --> 0:20:35.160 they were playing dance halls. Um, I mean, we did 0:20:35.160 --> 0:20:39.600 a James Brown showing alluminum barn at the fair Grounds 0:20:39.640 --> 0:20:41.800 in the wintertime with no heat. The band played the 0:20:41.840 --> 0:20:45.639 warm upset with their coats on and still had like 0:20:45.760 --> 0:20:48.360 three thousand people there. Go figure, And when you say work, 0:20:48.400 --> 0:20:50.479 do you mean like they worked just like regular jobs 0:20:50.520 --> 0:20:53.360 like they had you know, you say they didn't tour. 0:20:53.440 --> 0:20:57.840 They worked, but no, I'm I'm using work as you know, metaphorically. 0:20:57.920 --> 0:21:00.760 But they didn't think if it is too like even 0:21:00.760 --> 0:21:04.440 when I joined James in in sixty nine, we didn't say, 0:21:04.480 --> 0:21:06.359 oh hey, it's time to go on tour. It's like 0:21:06.440 --> 0:21:08.600 the show was on the road fifty one weeks out 0:21:08.600 --> 0:21:11.560 of the year, because tour insinuates that you're gonna stop 0:21:11.600 --> 0:21:15.639 exactly exactly and like it's it's it's it's you know, 0:21:15.720 --> 0:21:17.560 you got a new album, sing you tour. Well, it 0:21:17.600 --> 0:21:21.199 wasn't about albums. It was about singles, and there was 0:21:21.240 --> 0:21:24.879 a new single every three months or so, and that 0:21:25.119 --> 0:21:27.280 the idea was this is what you did for a living. 0:21:27.520 --> 0:21:29.600 You got your station where and there were a bus 0:21:29.640 --> 0:21:33.240 and depending on the level of success you had, um 0:21:33.400 --> 0:21:36.439 you went all over the country. Whoever would hire you 0:21:36.480 --> 0:21:38.760 and pay you to play, you showed up and played 0:21:38.880 --> 0:21:42.400 and hopefully you worked fifty two weeks out of the year, 0:21:42.400 --> 0:21:47.320 because that's how you supported yourself. So since James Brown 0:21:47.440 --> 0:21:51.840 situation wasn't the average situation in R and B, right, 0:21:51.960 --> 0:21:54.919 I mean, I know that everyone has a level of 0:21:54.960 --> 0:21:57.680 the what they call the Chipland circuit. Well, I guess 0:21:57.720 --> 0:22:02.520 back then the the main houses where what the regal 0:22:03.200 --> 0:22:05.920 in Chicago, Uh, well, there was there was the theater 0:22:06.119 --> 0:22:08.600 circuit in the major cities. That was a Howard and 0:22:08.640 --> 0:22:12.359 Washington regal in Chicago, was abtained in Philly, Royal in 0:22:12.440 --> 0:22:15.760 Baltimoreton of course, the Apollo in New York. And there 0:22:15.760 --> 0:22:17.800 were a couple of theaters in Detroit that did show 0:22:17.880 --> 0:22:20.320 several times a year, like the state theater was that 0:22:20.560 --> 0:22:23.280 still the State in Philly, you know, the state theater 0:22:23.359 --> 0:22:27.160 in Detroit was that it was usually the Fox okay 0:22:27.240 --> 0:22:31.680 okay okay um so and then in between then you 0:22:31.680 --> 0:22:33.880 would go to the smaller markets and it was sort 0:22:33.880 --> 0:22:37.159 of like up in the air, whoever would or the 0:22:37.280 --> 0:22:40.879 Leminum Barn exactly. Okay, I mean you might play a 0:22:40.960 --> 0:22:45.080 tobacco warehouse, you might play fair grounds arena of some 0:22:45.200 --> 0:22:49.200 kind of basketball or you know, now small theater, big club, 0:22:49.400 --> 0:22:54.879 dance Halls. Well, okay, since James Brown situation, uh, it 0:22:54.960 --> 0:22:58.880 is quite different. Um, I would like you too, could 0:22:58.920 --> 0:23:03.879 you explain to us what the average conditions of a 0:23:04.040 --> 0:23:10.560 Chittling circuit date would consist of. I mean just in 0:23:10.680 --> 0:23:15.280 terms of well I asked that because like, okay, so 0:23:16.280 --> 0:23:18.840 you know, when we first started, there was such a 0:23:18.880 --> 0:23:22.520 thing as a writer like put I could put Captain 0:23:22.600 --> 0:23:26.880 kruntziiro and have it every night. I could have Bonner's Peppermint, 0:23:26.920 --> 0:23:31.720 so like you know, but obviously the glamour rider thing 0:23:31.800 --> 0:23:34.040 was obviously the thing that was started in the seventies 0:23:34.040 --> 0:23:37.880 and the eighties. But in the sixties. If you are 0:23:39.080 --> 0:23:43.199 let's say you're Johnny Taylor and you have kind of 0:23:43.440 --> 0:23:47.000 a hot record, that's that's that's cooking a little bit. 0:23:47.600 --> 0:23:51.160 I mean, what is the average scenario for you? Are 0:23:51.200 --> 0:23:53.159 you traveling by yourself? Do you have an entourage? Do 0:23:53.200 --> 0:23:56.639 you have your musicians with you? Or it depends entirely 0:23:57.040 --> 0:23:59.800 on me. There's no set rule. The idea was you 0:23:59.800 --> 0:24:04.000 get hit record to get you out there. Your first 0:24:04.080 --> 0:24:07.280 hit actually gets you out there because everybody wants to 0:24:07.320 --> 0:24:10.199 see who has a new hit on radio, And the 0:24:10.240 --> 0:24:12.880 first time out you're probably making five hundred bucks at night. 0:24:13.320 --> 0:24:19.399 This is like sixties. No, it couldn't be good, but 0:24:19.400 --> 0:24:21.359 but you know, you know, I don't know for the 0:24:21.400 --> 0:24:25.600 sixties level like was that. Okay, you might make less. Actually, 0:24:25.640 --> 0:24:28.000 if you're a support act, you might make three a night. 0:24:28.720 --> 0:24:30.359 And when you figured that, you've got to pay for 0:24:30.440 --> 0:24:34.560 hotels and gas at the station wagon and whoever you've 0:24:34.600 --> 0:24:37.440 got on the road, you gotta pay them. Um No, 0:24:37.680 --> 0:24:39.760 even at ten bucks at night in the hotels, it 0:24:39.880 --> 0:24:45.359 still adds up. I mean, everything's relatives, it's but the 0:24:45.400 --> 0:24:48.320 point being, once you had two or three hits, then 0:24:48.359 --> 0:24:50.920 the goal was the first goal was to have the 0:24:51.080 --> 0:24:54.840 rhythm section of your own. So some of these artists 0:24:54.840 --> 0:24:57.800 would have to go to town. But let's let's take 0:24:57.920 --> 0:25:00.760 let's let's take an example. Let's say the Pressions Curtis 0:25:00.800 --> 0:25:03.280 made it feels the Impressions. Okay, they had to hit 0:25:03.320 --> 0:25:06.679 Gypsy Woman, and they toured behind that. Curtis played guitar, 0:25:06.800 --> 0:25:09.560 so they didn't need a guitarist, and they used whatever 0:25:09.600 --> 0:25:11.679 band was up in the show. If it was a 0:25:11.760 --> 0:25:14.879 theater like the Apollo, that'd be a house band, okay. 0:25:15.320 --> 0:25:17.720 If it was a club, it would be like if 0:25:17.720 --> 0:25:21.359 they were in Richmond, in my town, Um, there'd be 0:25:21.400 --> 0:25:23.879 a local band that would be told to learn the 0:25:23.920 --> 0:25:27.080 Impression songs. They'd come in in the afternoon, they do 0:25:27.160 --> 0:25:29.080 a quick what you would call a sound check. They 0:25:29.160 --> 0:25:34.000 do a rehearsal and hope for the best. Now a 0:25:34.080 --> 0:25:39.120 side note, you actually knew the Winston's correct? Uh? The 0:25:39.280 --> 0:25:43.680 all right, the Winston's brother they did the infamous straight 0:25:43.680 --> 0:25:47.399 out of Compton break? Uh? But were they like the 0:25:47.480 --> 0:25:51.320 local band that would be there when well, here's here's 0:25:51.400 --> 0:25:54.600 here's the story there. The Winston's themselves were not um 0:25:54.640 --> 0:25:58.040 but J. C. Coleman, Gregory Coleman, who was the drummer 0:25:58.040 --> 0:26:01.880 in the Winston's in the famous break. Um. He had 0:26:01.880 --> 0:26:04.200 a local band in Richmond, And that's how I knew 0:26:04.240 --> 0:26:07.280 him because we did gigs together all the time. And 0:26:07.480 --> 0:26:10.280 his his first wife was the female singer. And it 0:26:10.440 --> 0:26:12.560 was like a seven eight piece band with a horn section. 0:26:13.200 --> 0:26:15.960 And they would back o their artists like back to 0:26:16.040 --> 0:26:18.919 the Impressions, for example, who come through town, and they 0:26:18.960 --> 0:26:21.080 would back them and they do a set of their own. 0:26:21.200 --> 0:26:24.440 They might play school dances. They might you know them too. 0:26:24.440 --> 0:26:27.000 They would do any gig that came their way, but 0:26:27.119 --> 0:26:29.960 they were basically a local band. Now in J. C. 0:26:30.119 --> 0:26:33.520 Coleman's case, Um, he was a go enough drummer that 0:26:33.600 --> 0:26:36.040 he got recognized and somehow he ended up on the 0:26:36.119 --> 0:26:38.200 road with the marvel Letts as part of the Motown 0:26:38.720 --> 0:26:42.879 Motortown Review shows, and he was the Martin Valette's personal drummer. 0:26:43.600 --> 0:26:47.719 He went from the Otis Reading and he and several 0:26:47.760 --> 0:26:50.240 of the members of the Otis Redding Band were laid 0:26:50.240 --> 0:26:53.240 off what notice decided to tour with the Barquees. This 0:26:53.359 --> 0:26:58.000 was shortly before he died. And Um, at that point 0:26:58.080 --> 0:27:00.720 those guys who came out of Otis As Band formed 0:27:00.720 --> 0:27:03.800 the Winston's and they became a club band that was 0:27:03.920 --> 0:27:07.960 actually based in d C and the regular gig Wood 0:27:07.960 --> 0:27:10.359 says a house band of the Discotheque in DC called 0:27:10.440 --> 0:27:14.760 Ram's R A N. D. S and UM. And then 0:27:14.760 --> 0:27:16.720 they got a deal and they cut color and father 0:27:16.960 --> 0:27:20.159 the amen break was the flip side, which was that 0:27:21.160 --> 0:27:24.440 was a B side. They actually they actually I loved 0:27:24.480 --> 0:27:27.040 something out. They had actually toured strangely enough, with the 0:27:27.080 --> 0:27:30.600 Impressions for several months as their band. Now this is 0:27:30.640 --> 0:27:34.040 once the Impressions reached a certain point where they had 0:27:34.080 --> 0:27:36.720 more hits and the money got bigger than they put 0:27:36.760 --> 0:27:40.280 together their own band because they everybody hated playing with 0:27:40.320 --> 0:27:43.440 these local bands because it was always raggedy. I mean, 0:27:44.240 --> 0:27:47.360 like were they all of them? Was it just like 0:27:47.480 --> 0:27:49.760 someone comes with core charts and says, here, read this 0:27:49.920 --> 0:27:53.280 or you just his guys didn't even read music. Most 0:27:53.280 --> 0:27:55.160 of these local bands, at least in the South didn't 0:27:55.160 --> 0:27:57.360 even read music. Now, the house bands in the theaters 0:27:57.440 --> 0:28:01.760 up north did and they wanted, like you played the Apollo. 0:28:02.000 --> 0:28:04.240 If you didn't bring charge, get your feeling, it's hurt. 0:28:05.040 --> 0:28:09.040 But down south, in the in the clubs, nobody read music. 0:28:09.119 --> 0:28:11.440 So it was like learning the records. The band were 0:28:11.520 --> 0:28:14.560 just learned the records before the group came to down 0:28:15.000 --> 0:28:17.480 So the impressions come to town, they do a little 0:28:17.560 --> 0:28:21.440 run through before the club opens, and and then they 0:28:21.520 --> 0:28:23.760 just wing it. And I mean, I'm Steve. I used 0:28:23.760 --> 0:28:26.280 to MC shows in these clubs, and I remember the 0:28:26.320 --> 0:28:29.200 drifters who traveled with only a guitar player. They never 0:28:29.240 --> 0:28:31.960 had a band, and they had huge hits, but they 0:28:32.160 --> 0:28:34.600 never had a band. It was just the vocalists and 0:28:34.640 --> 0:28:38.280 the guitar player, and the guitar player would just be 0:28:38.400 --> 0:28:41.160 literally calling out changes to the band as that in 0:28:41.200 --> 0:28:44.280 the middle of the gig, it was it was crazy wow. 0:28:44.640 --> 0:28:46.880 Now keep keep in mind that this was the peak 0:28:46.880 --> 0:28:51.680 of soul music, which was the singers the genre so 0:28:51.880 --> 0:28:56.600 and and those guys really needed to sing because crowds 0:28:56.600 --> 0:29:00.560 wouldn't you know if if if you really couldn't sing, um, 0:29:00.640 --> 0:29:02.760 you weren't gonna last out there very long. You get 0:29:02.800 --> 0:29:07.280 your feelings are real quick. So most of the one 0:29:07.400 --> 0:29:10.000 of those clubs, if as long as the vocals were 0:29:10.040 --> 0:29:13.880 clear and you could really feel the vocals and and 0:29:14.920 --> 0:29:19.560 the rhythm section kept time, the audiences were usually happy. 0:29:20.000 --> 0:29:23.680 But she's saying that they had apoler mentality in other 0:29:23.720 --> 0:29:28.360 places then, other than the Apollo, as far as if 0:29:28.520 --> 0:29:33.520 your show wasn't tight or yeah, you know you better 0:29:33.560 --> 0:29:41.520 come correct. But the point was correct if you suck 0:29:41.560 --> 0:29:45.640 your suck. But you know that didn't just just happen 0:29:45.720 --> 0:29:48.960 in recent years, and they were a couple of acts 0:29:49.040 --> 0:29:51.160 you had tape records that would come through town and 0:29:51.320 --> 0:29:53.960 really lay an egg because they just didn't have it. 0:29:55.120 --> 0:29:58.160 I wonder what a black route is harder on people, 0:30:00.000 --> 0:30:03.760 probably because the martyrn money to see a show. I 0:30:04.160 --> 0:30:07.280 think that but also because black music in the sixties 0:30:07.400 --> 0:30:12.520 was really a singer's art, whereas particularly after the British invasion, 0:30:12.560 --> 0:30:15.040 it was about the band and it was about the 0:30:15.080 --> 0:30:17.760 hairstyles and the British clothes. They got sore and the 0:30:17.800 --> 0:30:19.960 girls would screaming didn't even hear what they were playing. 0:30:27.680 --> 0:30:30.800 So eventually, I guess, I mean, what was your first 0:30:30.920 --> 0:30:36.120 James Brown experience and what about that really called out 0:30:36.160 --> 0:30:39.440 to you as far as I mean did you Was 0:30:39.480 --> 0:30:41.400 it a moment where it's like, oh, this is my 0:30:41.480 --> 0:30:44.520 destiny or is it just like I had fallen in 0:30:44.560 --> 0:30:46.600 love like everybody else with the first live at the 0:30:46.640 --> 0:30:51.160 Apollo Am because it was just so totally apart from 0:30:51.200 --> 0:30:54.000 everything else. I mean, it was just so obvious. Like 0:30:54.040 --> 0:30:56.840 soul music and sould music, they were great, a ton 0:30:56.880 --> 0:30:59.640 of great artists. But once you heard that, rook, could 0:30:59.640 --> 0:31:01.800 you like, Okay, this this is some other stuff, this 0:31:01.880 --> 0:31:04.960 is this is really the gold standard here, So okay 0:31:04.960 --> 0:31:09.480 to explain to our listeners. So um, James Brown came 0:31:09.520 --> 0:31:14.520 out the box uh with Please Please Please, which was 0:31:14.800 --> 0:31:18.200 an instant hit, and then I guess he struggled for 0:31:18.240 --> 0:31:21.400 two years to come up with a follow up hit 0:31:21.520 --> 0:31:23.920 and how many singles do you reckon? Like at least 0:31:23.920 --> 0:31:27.200 fifteen or sixteen before try Me? Maybe not fifteen, but 0:31:27.320 --> 0:31:32.080 probably nine your ten. Okay, so a bunch an amazing 0:31:32.120 --> 0:31:35.840 amount of missus which you know nowadays. I mean he 0:31:35.840 --> 0:31:39.360 actually got dropped and Trying Me got a miss deal back. 0:31:39.880 --> 0:31:43.920 Really he cut a demo up Trying Me that he 0:31:43.960 --> 0:31:47.160 played pursued Nathan and King Records, who who had dropped him, 0:31:47.200 --> 0:31:49.840 and he said, you know, please Mr Nathan, listen to 0:31:49.840 --> 0:31:56.600 this literally try me, please please please try me. Um. 0:31:57.000 --> 0:32:02.680 And so once uh I get us, uh, maybe three 0:32:02.760 --> 0:32:06.840 or four years and two his career, James Brown decides 0:32:06.920 --> 0:32:13.760 that his his audience needs to uh it needs to 0:32:13.840 --> 0:32:16.480 feel what his live show or at least the energy 0:32:16.520 --> 0:32:19.440 of what his live shows about, and then they'd be 0:32:19.520 --> 0:32:23.400 more open to him. So enter James Brown Live at 0:32:23.400 --> 0:32:28.640 the Apollo Volume one, which came out sixty two, was 0:32:28.760 --> 0:32:32.160 recorded till root sixty two. It came out early sixty three. 0:32:32.960 --> 0:32:36.040 So what was you know? I mean, I have my 0:32:36.080 --> 0:32:41.000 favorites and obviously because I'm more closer to break beats 0:32:41.000 --> 0:32:44.240 and you know, like what my standards for James Brown 0:32:44.360 --> 0:32:47.440 a certain type of funk of course, I don't have 0:32:47.760 --> 0:32:51.120 a a sentimental attachment to Volume one. I mean, I 0:32:51.200 --> 0:32:55.200 understand why it's effective, but you know, my favorite is 0:32:55.240 --> 0:33:01.400 personally Volume three. Uh. But what was it about that 0:33:01.440 --> 0:33:04.960 record that spoke to you and spoke to America because 0:33:05.040 --> 0:33:08.480 DJs would play this from beginning to end like, yeah, 0:33:08.520 --> 0:33:12.280 they played it a song, Yeah they really did. Um. 0:33:12.320 --> 0:33:16.239 I mean, first of all, it was it was the 0:33:16.240 --> 0:33:22.360 the dynamic was so apparent because he really if you're 0:33:22.360 --> 0:33:26.480 listening to the album, you realize it's one long medley, okay. Um. 0:33:26.520 --> 0:33:30.719 He had segues in between the songs. Oh, never stopping, 0:33:30.800 --> 0:33:34.840 never never stopped, never never stopped, which was totally different 0:33:34.840 --> 0:33:37.440 because every other act in those days they play a song, 0:33:37.800 --> 0:33:40.080 it would end with a big chord, they take a bottle, 0:33:40.800 --> 0:33:44.200 you know, that introduced the next song. But with James 0:33:44.400 --> 0:33:47.400 was just non stop action and you could just, not 0:33:47.520 --> 0:33:50.040 having seen him perform yet, you would just sit there 0:33:50.040 --> 0:33:53.200 and fantasize about what this must be like because it's 0:33:53.280 --> 0:33:57.560 just it's crazy and I lost someone. Understand something too. 0:33:57.600 --> 0:34:01.400 For James Barron, people of your generation, Um, when he 0:34:01.440 --> 0:34:03.560 cut that record into sixty two, he was already the 0:34:03.640 --> 0:34:06.360 king of that circuit. He was already setting house records 0:34:06.360 --> 0:34:09.200 at the Apollo with the Outward Theater in places like that, 0:34:10.120 --> 0:34:13.840 and but he hadn't crossed over yet, and most of 0:34:13.880 --> 0:34:18.080 White America had no clue who he was. But the 0:34:18.120 --> 0:34:21.080 majority of his said records at that point were slow songs. 0:34:21.520 --> 0:34:25.560 They were what we call gospel blues, R and B soul, 0:34:26.239 --> 0:34:28.520 whatever tag you want to call it, but you know, 0:34:28.719 --> 0:34:34.359 very church influenced style of singing and really straight out 0:34:34.360 --> 0:34:39.640 of the gospel courtest and but the the energy and 0:34:39.760 --> 0:34:43.080 the passion is just unlike anything else that was on 0:34:43.239 --> 0:34:45.680 record at that point because nobody, first of all, nobody 0:34:45.719 --> 0:34:50.200 even Ray Charles, had made a live record, so you really, 0:34:50.400 --> 0:34:52.759 unless you went to the shows, you really had no 0:34:52.840 --> 0:34:57.719 concept of what those little forty fives turned into with 0:34:58.400 --> 0:35:03.000 a full band arrangement. And it was obvious that James, 0:35:03.080 --> 0:35:06.040 first of all, he had a killer band that was 0:35:07.120 --> 0:35:12.000 ridiculously well rehearsed, and that alone set him apart from 0:35:12.000 --> 0:35:14.000 everybody else, because there was nobody else in har and 0:35:14.000 --> 0:35:18.520 B except maybe Ray Charles, who could afford that, because 0:35:18.600 --> 0:35:22.840 the economics of that circuit were such that even somebody 0:35:22.880 --> 0:35:27.680 like Jackie Wilson or Jerry Butler Otis reading at the 0:35:27.800 --> 0:35:30.560 at the beginnings of their careers. Well, Jackie Wilson never 0:35:30.600 --> 0:35:33.920 had a band of his own. Otis Otis did, but 0:35:33.960 --> 0:35:37.680 it was never a good band. Um well, you know 0:35:37.760 --> 0:35:42.160 so so so James thing really was was very unique 0:35:42.200 --> 0:35:44.920 on that circuit. I mean he came to do business. 0:35:45.880 --> 0:35:52.000 So when he came to Virginia, Uh, I mean, how 0:35:52.000 --> 0:35:55.400 did you to first meet? Like what was the Well, 0:35:55.800 --> 0:35:57.520 I went to a show and this was long before 0:35:57.560 --> 0:35:59.239 I was I shouldn't say a longe, a couple of 0:35:59.280 --> 0:36:01.319 years before, and it up on the radio station. I 0:36:01.360 --> 0:36:03.880 went to one of his shows about and this was 0:36:03.920 --> 0:36:07.160 also in sixty three, and it was it was a 0:36:07.200 --> 0:36:09.920 concert in the theater. It wasn't a club show, and 0:36:09.960 --> 0:36:12.440 there was like a smattering of white kids, you know 0:36:12.480 --> 0:36:16.560 that had discovered James Braham And I'd say, it's you know, 0:36:16.600 --> 0:36:18.880 it's what we call the Landmark Theater now then it 0:36:18.960 --> 0:36:20.960 was called the Mosque. I'm sure you've played. You played 0:36:20.960 --> 0:36:25.279 there with um holds three thousand people, maybe there were 0:36:25.320 --> 0:36:29.160 a hundred white people there. So it was at least 0:36:29.719 --> 0:36:34.320 that the live album had begun to attract some white fans, 0:36:35.080 --> 0:36:37.520 but he still wasn't on pop radio. So yeah, rich 0:36:37.520 --> 0:36:39.560 white kid didn't it still didn't really have ac clue 0:36:39.560 --> 0:36:42.759 who he was. Um, but I mean the show was 0:36:42.800 --> 0:36:44.600 everything I dreamt it would be, and I was just 0:36:44.719 --> 0:36:47.239 you know, blown to like everybody else was. But a 0:36:47.320 --> 0:36:49.480 couple of years later, fast forward, I'm working for the 0:36:49.600 --> 0:36:52.920 radio station James Brown's coming to town. The station is 0:36:52.960 --> 0:36:55.880 promoting the show, and I just begged the program director 0:36:55.920 --> 0:36:58.160 to let me go interviewing mits hotel to hype this 0:36:58.200 --> 0:37:01.080 show because it was kind of true sational that if 0:37:01.120 --> 0:37:03.640 an act came to town early enough in the day, 0:37:04.160 --> 0:37:06.840 they would either come down to the radio station to 0:37:06.920 --> 0:37:09.480 do an interview. And the whole idea was not it 0:37:09.560 --> 0:37:11.520 was it was twofold. It was to plug the current 0:37:11.600 --> 0:37:15.880 single and encouraged the DJs to continue playing their records. 0:37:15.880 --> 0:37:18.399 And it was two hype ticket sales for the show 0:37:18.440 --> 0:37:22.920 that night. UM. A lot of the ticket sales for 0:37:23.000 --> 0:37:26.000 those shows were walk up, unlike today where shows are 0:37:26.000 --> 0:37:29.960 pretty much sold out in advance. Um, in those days, 0:37:31.000 --> 0:37:35.960 sales are still not like that, because you know, our 0:37:35.960 --> 0:37:38.439 advancing show will be like, yeah, man, you only sold 0:37:38.440 --> 0:37:41.120 twelve tickets, we might canceled, IM Like No Man's Black 0:37:41.160 --> 0:37:44.359 People and then like it sold down that night, you know, 0:37:44.520 --> 0:37:47.520 but that that's that's still a dynamic. But I mean 0:37:47.560 --> 0:37:50.200 back then, it was just rule of thumb. It wasn't 0:37:50.200 --> 0:37:55.000 the exception. It was the rule. Um. So at any rate, um. 0:37:55.040 --> 0:37:57.239 But James was big enough that he wasn't going to 0:37:57.400 --> 0:37:59.799 come to the station. He might send Bobby Bird down 0:37:59.840 --> 0:38:02.000 to do an interview, or you know, one of the 0:38:02.080 --> 0:38:06.000 supporter acts Macio or somebody, but so he rarely came 0:38:06.040 --> 0:38:09.120 to the station. Just he used to. But by the 0:38:09.120 --> 0:38:11.200 time I went to work at the station, he had 0:38:11.239 --> 0:38:14.680 kind of graduated past that. So the idea was, this 0:38:14.760 --> 0:38:18.920 is sixty five, so I'm like, let me take a 0:38:19.000 --> 0:38:24.480 day recorded to his hotel. And that's what happened. And 0:38:24.680 --> 0:38:27.040 you know, I met him and we talked for about 0:38:27.040 --> 0:38:31.040 a half hour before we went went on tape, and 0:38:31.200 --> 0:38:33.400 for whatever reason, he took a liking to me. And 0:38:33.440 --> 0:38:36.320 I've always wondered why. I don't mean that from a 0:38:36.400 --> 0:38:43.000 humble sense, um, but we stayed in touch and every 0:38:43.040 --> 0:38:45.160 time after that he would come through town, I would 0:38:45.200 --> 0:38:48.399 go backstage, hang out the dressing room and we would 0:38:48.400 --> 0:38:51.480 talk music. And you know, I was I was the 0:38:51.560 --> 0:38:55.080 typical little kid who had all kinds of questions, what's 0:38:55.080 --> 0:38:57.399 your next thing? Well, where did you record it? Um, 0:38:57.560 --> 0:38:59.960 did you use the road band? Who's in the band now, 0:39:00.120 --> 0:39:03.120 who's the lead who's the new lead trumpet? You know, 0:39:06.280 --> 0:39:11.640 exactly exactly, And he would engage you totally. But after 0:39:11.680 --> 0:39:13.399 I went to work for him, I discovered you did 0:39:13.400 --> 0:39:16.520 that with any disc jockey who had primed time, because 0:39:16.560 --> 0:39:19.080 it was like, so, you know, I mean, he made 0:39:19.120 --> 0:39:20.640 me feel like I was the only guy in the 0:39:20.640 --> 0:39:22.799 world he's talking to like this, right, I mean, we're 0:39:22.800 --> 0:39:26.839 talking business. I actually turned the tape recorder on when 0:39:26.920 --> 0:39:30.799 we were just kicking it without him knowing it, and 0:39:30.880 --> 0:39:33.640 you hear us in the background conversing and we're talking 0:39:33.680 --> 0:39:37.240 about things like the Motown review and what promoters Berry 0:39:37.280 --> 0:39:39.560 Gordon used and he should have used a black promoter, 0:39:39.760 --> 0:39:42.279 and James is just going off about you know, we're 0:39:42.280 --> 0:39:45.680 talking business and I'm a little pimpley faced high school kid. 0:39:45.920 --> 0:39:49.319 It's like I was just blown away. It's like I 0:39:49.360 --> 0:39:52.400 love this guy that he engaged you. Yeah, exactly, And 0:39:52.640 --> 0:39:55.360 I think I'm gonna be the next Dick Clark. It's like, 0:39:55.400 --> 0:39:57.560 so you're gonna be big. You got the prime time 0:39:58.960 --> 0:40:01.719 you know his yeah, his rule of thumb. I guess 0:40:01.880 --> 0:40:04.000 one of his books he said that, you know he 0:40:04.120 --> 0:40:07.840 always made the well the intern or the or the 0:40:08.239 --> 0:40:11.080 person who not Lewis on the totem pole. But pretty 0:40:11.160 --> 0:40:15.239 much he'd make them feel important because he figured that 0:40:15.320 --> 0:40:19.759 and about five to six to seven years that they 0:40:19.800 --> 0:40:22.520 will soon be the station manager exactly. Yeah, they'll be 0:40:22.560 --> 0:40:25.840 the music director picking the records. That he started that 0:40:25.920 --> 0:40:31.080 concept because all of us just took down. That's real, right, No, yeah, 0:40:31.200 --> 0:40:33.279 like I was taught that was the first thing. I 0:40:33.320 --> 0:40:36.520 was taught to do. Every college interview, every and now 0:40:37.680 --> 0:40:41.319 every every RinkyDink college interview ever done now ends with 0:40:41.440 --> 0:40:45.879 ten years later like some CEO of some corporation that's like, 0:40:46.400 --> 0:40:49.400 you don't remember this is but in Brown University you 0:40:49.480 --> 0:40:52.880 played at home my first interview, and like, you know, 0:40:53.000 --> 0:40:56.680 that's now I'm doing something else for them that's you know, 0:40:56.800 --> 0:41:00.879 way big. So it's it's I see how that's plays. 0:41:00.920 --> 0:41:03.799 So at what point did he take you serious enough 0:41:03.840 --> 0:41:08.279 to take over or at least start working for Did 0:41:08.280 --> 0:41:11.600 you start off as tour manager or no, actually started 0:41:11.600 --> 0:41:14.960 doing publicity. What happened is that I used to chase 0:41:15.040 --> 0:41:17.680 the show around. I mean any time it was anywhere 0:41:17.719 --> 0:41:20.239 near where I was a hundred miles two hundred miles. 0:41:20.280 --> 0:41:22.839 I'd go to d C at the Howard Theater. I'd 0:41:22.880 --> 0:41:26.160 go to Norfolk, Virginia, and I'd go to West Virginia. 0:41:26.840 --> 0:41:29.359 And you know, just any time the James Round Show 0:41:29.520 --> 0:41:33.200 was within radius, I was there and really just totally 0:41:33.200 --> 0:41:34.799 make it a pest to myself. But I got to 0:41:34.840 --> 0:41:37.600 know his manager. I got to know his his road manager, 0:41:38.320 --> 0:41:42.080 and not to mention, made friends with Bobby Burden, some 0:41:42.200 --> 0:41:45.400 of the guys in the band, and um, you know, 0:41:45.440 --> 0:41:49.360 for whatever reason, they let me hang. So fast forward 0:41:49.440 --> 0:41:54.560 to nineteen sixty nine and I'm in college in Pittsburgh. Um, 0:41:54.600 --> 0:41:56.520 the little radio phase it and it thanks to the 0:41:56.600 --> 0:41:59.640 Vietnam War trying to draft everybody. It wasn't in college, 0:41:59.680 --> 0:42:01.400 so I'd aside a bit of getting college where I 0:42:01.480 --> 0:42:05.839 was going to Vietnam. So so your career was abruptly 0:42:06.440 --> 0:42:09.880 halted in favor of a college career that lasted for 0:42:09.920 --> 0:42:12.960 about two years until he hired me. But what happened 0:42:13.040 --> 0:42:17.440 is when you actually his manager called and said he's 0:42:17.480 --> 0:42:21.440 coming to Pittsburgh and he's got issues with the program director. 0:42:21.480 --> 0:42:23.840 Of the black station there. So he needs a local 0:42:23.880 --> 0:42:26.719 watchdog for the promotion of the concert. Would you be 0:42:26.800 --> 0:42:29.600 willing to do it? And what would that entail? That 0:42:29.880 --> 0:42:36.279 entailed buying the advertisement, newspaper ads, radio ads, um, monitoring 0:42:36.320 --> 0:42:39.920 it to make sure the ads are played right, Um, 0:42:40.120 --> 0:42:43.480 you've been your own customer adds Yes, yeah, yeah, that 0:42:43.680 --> 0:42:46.120 that was That's the way I knew they'd be, the 0:42:46.160 --> 0:42:48.400 way I wanted to be, and didn't really trust anybody 0:42:48.440 --> 0:42:50.879 to do them. And it was part of the fun 0:42:50.920 --> 0:42:54.000 because I enjoyed doing it. Um, and you know, putting 0:42:54.080 --> 0:42:57.279 up posters, I mean literally driving around and with a 0:42:57.360 --> 0:43:01.080 trunk full of big window card post justs and with 0:43:01.200 --> 0:43:03.480 a staple gun, put them up on telephone poles all 0:43:03.520 --> 0:43:09.239 over town, put him in barbershop windows, and exactly it was. 0:43:09.360 --> 0:43:12.320 It was the old school version of the Street Team. 0:43:12.400 --> 0:43:15.960 And suffice it to say, the show sold out. But 0:43:16.280 --> 0:43:19.120 what really got him was I showed him a bunch 0:43:19.120 --> 0:43:23.560 of newspaper stories that the local paper had done. Um, 0:43:23.719 --> 0:43:27.200 the local daily paper. And at that point, daily papers 0:43:27.239 --> 0:43:30.520 didn't pay a lot of intention to black shows, seldom 0:43:30.520 --> 0:43:34.520 and reviewed them and very seldom wrote them up in advance. 0:43:35.520 --> 0:43:38.600 But what I didn't tell James was that the entertainment 0:43:38.680 --> 0:43:40.440 editor of the paper happened to be a friend of 0:43:40.480 --> 0:43:45.399 my dad's. Okay, so I had the white privilege paid 0:43:45.440 --> 0:43:48.440 off and I got I got, you know, so I 0:43:48.480 --> 0:43:50.840 got a bunch of stories in the paper and he 0:43:50.960 --> 0:43:55.720 was like blown out and he's like, got this, yeah, exactly. 0:43:55.719 --> 0:43:57.200 So I showed it to him in the dressing room 0:43:57.239 --> 0:43:59.600 after the show and he's all geek because the shows 0:43:59.640 --> 0:44:01.799 sold out and we were in the Civic Arena. It's 0:44:01.840 --> 0:44:03.920 like thirteen thousand people, so it was, you know, it 0:44:04.000 --> 0:44:08.400 was a real deal. And he was like, Alan, you 0:44:08.440 --> 0:44:10.880 did this here? Can you do this everywhere? And of 0:44:10.920 --> 0:44:13.960 course I said yes, and I had you know, my 0:44:14.040 --> 0:44:16.520 dad doesn't know anybody else in any of the city 0:44:17.080 --> 0:44:19.880 knock the South in that, you know. So that was 0:44:19.920 --> 0:44:22.440 the gig. I was hired to come to Cincinnati where 0:44:22.560 --> 0:44:26.680 King Records was in James's office space was within King Records, 0:44:27.400 --> 0:44:29.920 and at quit school, drove to Cincinnati and started my 0:44:30.000 --> 0:44:33.560 job as publicity director. So was it a learning curve 0:44:33.640 --> 0:44:38.439 for you? Totally? Totally. I was just a kid right 0:44:38.960 --> 0:44:42.399 without the aid of I mean, of course, technology makes 0:44:42.480 --> 0:44:46.359 us alwasier could make us all publicists in this room 0:44:46.440 --> 0:44:49.320 right now, with our with our phones and our computers. 0:44:49.360 --> 0:44:54.440 But I mean, what resources did you have to even know? Uh, 0:44:54.480 --> 0:44:59.759 you know to get coverage in the Times? Or there 0:44:59.800 --> 0:45:04.600 was a marketing book that listed all the country's newspapers. Okay, 0:45:05.160 --> 0:45:08.920 I got hold of that, and once I got to Cincinnati, 0:45:08.960 --> 0:45:11.440 they just threw an itinerary in my in my lap 0:45:11.480 --> 0:45:13.279 and said this is where the show is going. Do 0:45:13.400 --> 0:45:16.160 you think you got it? And there was really nobody 0:45:16.200 --> 0:45:18.399 to supervise, so it was kind of like I can 0:45:18.400 --> 0:45:22.600 invent this and you know, do whatever, because nobody had 0:45:22.600 --> 0:45:25.920 done it for him before in the house, and so 0:45:26.040 --> 0:45:28.719 you were his first publicists pretty much. I mean, he 0:45:28.800 --> 0:45:31.520 had a few independent people that would plant stuff in 0:45:31.600 --> 0:45:35.360 the Washington Afro American, in the Amsterdam News and stuff 0:45:35.400 --> 0:45:38.360 like that, but in terms of like calling the dailies 0:45:38.920 --> 0:45:42.520 in major cities, no, um. And that's what I did. 0:45:42.560 --> 0:45:45.040 I just cold called the newspapers and every town where 0:45:45.040 --> 0:45:47.600 the show was going and would ask for the entertainment 0:45:47.800 --> 0:45:50.719 editor of the paper. And they were used to get 0:45:50.760 --> 0:45:53.120 in calls like this because nobody did it. Now I 0:45:53.160 --> 0:45:56.400 didn't know that. I'm thinking everybody must do this, but 0:45:56.960 --> 0:46:01.280 really they didn't. So at what point do you stop 0:46:01.320 --> 0:46:04.000 doing or did you stop doing publicity? Or were you doing? 0:46:04.360 --> 0:46:07.240 Because I know the James Brown organization people do double duties. 0:46:07.320 --> 0:46:12.880 After about a month when I didn't get paid, this 0:46:13.200 --> 0:46:15.880 see to what I also didn't understand that the James 0:46:15.960 --> 0:46:19.240 Brown organization. First of all, I always called him James 0:46:19.280 --> 0:46:21.200 until I went to work for him, and it was 0:46:21.239 --> 0:46:24.799 made very clear, now it's Mr. Brown. When you were 0:46:24.800 --> 0:46:26.719 friends with him, you were allowed to call him James. Yeah. 0:46:26.719 --> 0:46:28.440 I was a kid. I didn't even know any better, 0:46:30.000 --> 0:46:31.880 and I was also just jockey, so I could have 0:46:31.880 --> 0:46:33.799 called him anything. He was gonna be cool with it 0:46:33.800 --> 0:46:37.000 because he wanted his records played. But now I'm working 0:46:37.040 --> 0:46:40.400 for him now it was a reciprocal I mean he 0:46:40.480 --> 0:46:43.680 called me Mr. Leeds. Everybody in the organization was Mr 0:46:43.800 --> 0:46:48.040 or Mrs or miss whatever the case. Maybe. But what 0:46:48.080 --> 0:46:50.880 I didn't know was that he had gone to the 0:46:50.920 --> 0:46:54.760 president of King Records and told him that he should 0:46:54.760 --> 0:46:58.640 pay me. I brought this kid in. He's a great publicist, 0:46:58.680 --> 0:47:01.759 you pay him. He went off on the road. Well, 0:47:01.800 --> 0:47:04.680 the guy, how nearly it was the president King Records. 0:47:04.800 --> 0:47:07.319 He didn't know who I was. He never met me, 0:47:07.400 --> 0:47:10.000 nor could he care less. So long and short of 0:47:10.080 --> 0:47:11.960 it is, I didn't get paid. So after about the 0:47:12.000 --> 0:47:14.560 third week, I'm like, well, you know the first week 0:47:14.600 --> 0:47:17.480 the office managers telling me, well, it's it's just the 0:47:17.520 --> 0:47:19.799 payroll has got to catch up. Because the pay would 0:47:19.840 --> 0:47:23.120 come from the road Every Sunday, the road manager would 0:47:23.160 --> 0:47:25.920 wire money to the office to pay the office staff. 0:47:26.880 --> 0:47:29.400 And they were like, you know, a couple of clerical people, 0:47:29.640 --> 0:47:34.240 and the receptionists and staff and s and the guys 0:47:34.280 --> 0:47:38.920 who booked the shows. Who literally because because James um 0:47:39.000 --> 0:47:41.560 he booked his own shows, he had guys on his 0:47:41.600 --> 0:47:45.160 payroll who would call the buildings and call promoters and 0:47:45.320 --> 0:47:48.640 booked the shows instead of using an agent. It was 0:47:48.680 --> 0:47:52.200 all in house. So I'm watching these guys do this 0:47:52.239 --> 0:47:54.280 because I'm sitting at a desk in the same office, 0:47:54.280 --> 0:47:57.279 and I'm just paying attention to what they're doing. One 0:47:57.320 --> 0:48:01.120 of them got fired, and I mean I left out 0:48:01.160 --> 0:48:03.640 the point where after after I didn't get paid, I 0:48:03.680 --> 0:48:07.320 actually left for about a month and a half. Brown 0:48:07.480 --> 0:48:09.640 was on tour in California. I couldn't get him on 0:48:09.680 --> 0:48:13.120 the phone, and the guy King Records said, hey, sorry kid, 0:48:13.160 --> 0:48:15.160 but just didn't work out, you know, kind of a thing. 0:48:15.239 --> 0:48:19.200 So I was mad, and you know, my friends at 0:48:19.239 --> 0:48:22.000 school in Pittsburgh had thrown me going away party, you know, 0:48:22.480 --> 0:48:28.360 big shot lead. I could not go home, are you 0:48:29.440 --> 0:48:35.160 I wouldn't go home? Yeah, that's that's tragic, And I wasn't. 0:48:35.280 --> 0:48:37.280 I've never been a person who wants to be tragic. 0:48:37.360 --> 0:48:39.520 So I drove to New York and I knew a 0:48:39.560 --> 0:48:44.600 guy who was cooling the games road manager okay, and 0:48:44.800 --> 0:48:46.959 he hooked me up with Jane Red Junior, I admit 0:48:47.040 --> 0:48:49.359 his dad. And he hooked me up with Jeane Red 0:48:49.400 --> 0:48:51.960 Junior cooling the game. We're just breaking. Their first single 0:48:52.120 --> 0:48:54.680 was just hitting, so I actually got a get with 0:48:54.760 --> 0:48:58.600 them for about a month. Um. But that was also 0:48:58.680 --> 0:49:01.800 no salary. That was like you get a piece of 0:49:01.840 --> 0:49:07.000 the gigs you book commission, um. And most of the 0:49:07.000 --> 0:49:09.439 gigs I was booking were DJ gigs up and down 0:49:09.480 --> 0:49:13.600 the East Coast and djsd' I was gonna say. What 0:49:13.600 --> 0:49:16.520 I learned, uh, was that it was a whole house. 0:49:16.680 --> 0:49:19.359 The black acts were kind of at the mercy of 0:49:19.440 --> 0:49:23.440 the radio stations totally that would throw these shows, so 0:49:23.560 --> 0:49:27.080 no one could actually make a living. It was tough, 0:49:27.560 --> 0:49:30.600 you know, as a musician until so you had several 0:49:30.680 --> 0:49:34.440 hits and could really sell tickets on your own. So 0:49:34.560 --> 0:49:37.879 afterwards you you just you just gave up and came 0:49:37.920 --> 0:49:40.480 back to James. Well, what happened is one of the 0:49:40.480 --> 0:49:43.680 guys who was booking the tour got fired and the 0:49:43.719 --> 0:49:47.439 guy that was still there, Um had stayed in touch 0:49:47.520 --> 0:49:52.839 with me, and he convinced me that James would rehire me. 0:49:52.920 --> 0:49:56.120 And I'm like, rehire me. I never got paid, right, 0:49:57.200 --> 0:50:00.000 I might have worked, but I wasn't. James rounds concerned 0:50:00.000 --> 0:50:05.000 and you're still there doing something and he didn't know 0:50:05.040 --> 0:50:06.719 that you were going. Oh no, he knew I was going. 0:50:07.160 --> 0:50:09.560 He just knew I was going, Just like, yeah, a 0:50:09.640 --> 0:50:13.480 nice kid. But didn't work out, you know. But the 0:50:13.560 --> 0:50:16.320 longest short of is James told as fellow's name was 0:50:16.360 --> 0:50:19.080 Buddy Nolan and Buddy Cauldon. He said, Mr Brown said 0:50:19.120 --> 0:50:21.520 that if you could be in Rochester, New York tonight, 0:50:22.440 --> 0:50:25.520 you got a job and he'll break you in ast 0:50:26.560 --> 0:50:29.080 to our director, assistant to our director and so on, 0:50:29.280 --> 0:50:32.200 and you'll help book the dates and promote the dates. 0:50:32.200 --> 0:50:35.160 So it's no more publicity. Now, it's like we're you know, 0:50:35.280 --> 0:50:39.000 promoting the shows. Um, and I was in New York 0:50:39.080 --> 0:50:42.520 with very little money in my pocket, scraped enough together, 0:50:42.600 --> 0:50:44.759 bought a bus ticket, went to Port authority, caught a 0:50:44.840 --> 0:50:47.880 bus to Rochester, showed up at the gig right as 0:50:47.920 --> 0:50:52.520 he was coming off stage, got backstage, shook hands, said 0:50:52.520 --> 0:50:59.719 welcome back. Son said something patronizing, and an hour later 0:50:59.760 --> 0:51:01.279 I was with him when his lear jet flying the 0:51:01.360 --> 0:51:05.120 Cincinnati So you know what from a greyhound at the 0:51:05.160 --> 0:51:07.560 port authority would know, money in my pocket to a 0:51:07.680 --> 0:51:10.560 job that actually paid me in and a seat on 0:51:10.640 --> 0:51:13.680 the lear jedge. So not bad. It was a good day. 0:51:13.960 --> 0:51:17.080 That is Yeah, that that isn't bad at all. Can 0:51:17.160 --> 0:51:21.000 you can you tell the story of Okay, I wanted 0:51:21.040 --> 0:51:23.200 to give her an example of the time when you 0:51:23.239 --> 0:51:26.600 assumed that James Brown was going to be sick and 0:51:26.640 --> 0:51:29.600 canceled a show that was not one of my bit 0:51:29.640 --> 0:51:37.160 of days musty years and must day years. Yeah he was, Um, 0:51:37.200 --> 0:51:39.400 we had he was. He was what he would do 0:51:39.440 --> 0:51:41.440 because he had a lear jet, he could fly in 0:51:41.480 --> 0:51:44.440 and out of one night ER's in b markets, so 0:51:44.520 --> 0:51:47.440 he might base himself in New York for example, if 0:51:47.480 --> 0:51:50.880 he had gigs. Let's say Fridays in Boston, on Saturdays 0:51:50.920 --> 0:51:54.840 in Providence, and Sundays in Hartford. He would base himself 0:51:54.840 --> 0:51:57.360 out of a favorite hotel in New York and just 0:51:57.440 --> 0:51:59.719 flying in and out of these places and you know, 0:51:59.800 --> 0:52:02.600 be back in his hotel in New York by one 0:52:02.640 --> 0:52:05.759 in the morning. Right. So, he was staying at the 0:52:05.760 --> 0:52:08.560 Americana now the Sheritton on the Seventh Avenue. I was 0:52:08.640 --> 0:52:11.680 home in Cincinnati, and we had a gig in Providence, 0:52:12.640 --> 0:52:15.799 and Bobby Bird, who traveled with him was you know, 0:52:15.920 --> 0:52:19.520 quasi leader of the band at the time and traveled 0:52:19.600 --> 0:52:21.560 with James, was in New York with him, and he 0:52:21.600 --> 0:52:23.319 called me in the morning. I forget if it was 0:52:23.320 --> 0:52:25.759 he or Danny. One of them called me and said, 0:52:25.840 --> 0:52:29.280 Mr Brown is really sick. The doctor's here. Mr Brown's 0:52:29.320 --> 0:52:31.560 got the flu. He's got a fever on it four. 0:52:32.040 --> 0:52:34.680 He can't hold any food down, he can't drink water, 0:52:34.800 --> 0:52:37.359 he's sweating up a storm. He tried to get up 0:52:37.360 --> 0:52:39.800 and go to bathroom and he felt faint and couldn't 0:52:39.840 --> 0:52:42.239 even make it. And he's said, and I'm like, well, 0:52:42.320 --> 0:52:44.040 so are you telling me to cancel the show? Did 0:52:44.040 --> 0:52:47.320 he say, canceled the show? Well, he didn't say anything, 0:52:47.440 --> 0:52:50.520 Mr Leeds, he's out cold, but you know he's just 0:52:50.560 --> 0:52:53.880 telling you the man's very sick. So I'm in this 0:52:54.040 --> 0:52:59.479 situation of like, Okay, what do I do. UM. On 0:52:59.480 --> 0:53:02.440 one hand, it kicks in right away that the sooner 0:53:02.480 --> 0:53:05.120 you cancel the show, you cut your losses, because the 0:53:05.200 --> 0:53:07.680 longer you wait, the more expensive the cancelation is going 0:53:07.719 --> 0:53:09.719 to be. Because you've got all the labor costs in 0:53:09.760 --> 0:53:12.719 the building. You can stop at two o'clock in the afternoon. 0:53:12.760 --> 0:53:14.319 You don't have to pay the ushers, you know, have 0:53:14.360 --> 0:53:16.000 to pay the police, you know, to pay it's a 0:53:16.040 --> 0:53:18.920 lot of people you don't have to pay um that 0:53:19.000 --> 0:53:21.319 you would have to pay if you canceled at seven 0:53:21.320 --> 0:53:23.520 o'clock at night, after they've all showed up for work. 0:53:24.000 --> 0:53:27.320 So that's on my mind. Um. But by the same token, 0:53:27.560 --> 0:53:33.080 I know James Brown is not very seldom cancels the show. 0:53:34.960 --> 0:53:38.120 And it was the kind of guy who just kind 0:53:38.120 --> 0:53:41.240 of didn't believe in sick He thought sickness was weakness. 0:53:41.680 --> 0:53:43.840 I mean, I actually got laid off for three weeks 0:53:43.880 --> 0:53:45.839 once because I got sick and couldn't come to work 0:53:45.880 --> 0:53:50.319 for a few days. Miss Leads is too sick to 0:53:50.360 --> 0:53:53.120 come to work. I'm too sick to pay him. You know, 0:53:53.239 --> 0:53:56.719 It's like that, it's it's it's like he just thinks 0:53:56.719 --> 0:53:59.120 she's supposed to willach. So I was very reluctant to 0:53:59.160 --> 0:54:02.080 cancel the show. But you know, they're telling me the 0:54:02.120 --> 0:54:06.480 guys on his deathbed. So you know, so three or 0:54:06.480 --> 0:54:08.680 four calls back and forth every hour, I'm calling, how 0:54:08.800 --> 0:54:11.040 is he? How is he? Oh, he's he's he's he's 0:54:11.080 --> 0:54:15.719 going nowhere, miss leads, he's really sick. I'm like, okay, 0:54:15.880 --> 0:54:18.880 So now, mind you. This is before his cell phones 0:54:19.040 --> 0:54:22.000 and pagers and all of this, and it's a Sunday. 0:54:22.120 --> 0:54:24.680 So now I have to call the radio station that's 0:54:24.719 --> 0:54:27.240 promoting the show. I have to find the road manager 0:54:27.280 --> 0:54:30.400 of the band. I have to talk to the venue director. 0:54:30.480 --> 0:54:34.600 And most of these are switchboards that are closed on weekends. Um, 0:54:34.640 --> 0:54:37.839 so it wasn't easy getting hold of people. But after 0:54:37.880 --> 0:54:40.600 a couple of hours of going round about, and managed 0:54:40.600 --> 0:54:43.560 to get hold of everybody and officially canceled the show. 0:54:44.440 --> 0:54:48.120 So after all that was done, I called the Hotel 0:54:48.120 --> 0:54:49.799 of New York back to see how he was doing 0:54:49.840 --> 0:54:52.960 because we had to show the next day somewhere and 0:54:53.120 --> 0:54:56.840 his wife did answered the phone in his sweep, and 0:54:56.880 --> 0:54:58.640 I said, oh, Mr d I'm so glad you're there 0:54:58.680 --> 0:55:00.839 with him. Is he is he feeling the better? What's up? 0:55:00.880 --> 0:55:02.840 What's up? What's up? She said? I wish I knew. 0:55:03.400 --> 0:55:08.960 And I'm like, huh, what do you mean? Because she 0:55:09.040 --> 0:55:10.920 had just gotten there, if she had flown up from 0:55:10.920 --> 0:55:15.040 Georgia because her husband sick, right, And she said, by 0:55:15.040 --> 0:55:16.680 the time I got you, he'd already left for the 0:55:16.680 --> 0:55:25.279 gig in Providence. Yes, okay, So now I got to that. 0:55:26.520 --> 0:55:29.600 You want to talk about feeling like a fool, Call 0:55:29.680 --> 0:55:31.799 all these people back and say, oh, by the way, 0:55:31.840 --> 0:55:34.879 they show I canceled two hours ago. It's back on. 0:55:37.200 --> 0:55:39.400 Go back on the radio, and tell all those people 0:55:39.440 --> 0:55:43.040 you told to give refunds tomorrow that, oh, by the way, 0:55:43.200 --> 0:55:45.400 forget what I told you to. You know, I've blown 0:55:45.480 --> 0:55:49.520 the credit of all the radio stations, you know, And 0:55:49.520 --> 0:55:52.719 and I'm sure I blow my job. I'm just I know. 0:55:52.800 --> 0:55:58.240 It's it's history, right. So he obviously he gets there, 0:55:58.600 --> 0:56:01.640 and um, I'm sure we took a hit. I can't 0:56:01.680 --> 0:56:04.959 remember the exact not half him, like a half a house, right, 0:56:05.920 --> 0:56:07.840 So of course I get that I get told my 0:56:07.880 --> 0:56:11.360 girlfriend this. He told yet what happened? I'm sure somebody 0:56:11.400 --> 0:56:14.680 told him he had you know, of course. I mean 0:56:14.719 --> 0:56:18.279 the the band hadn't gotten off the bus, you know, 0:56:18.719 --> 0:56:22.000 they hadn't even expected to set up. They were getting 0:56:22.000 --> 0:56:23.720 ready to turn around and go to the next town. 0:56:25.120 --> 0:56:28.880 So I told my girlfriend, I said, about ten thirty tonight, 0:56:29.080 --> 0:56:32.080 this phone's going to ring and it's gonna be real ugly. 0:56:34.719 --> 0:56:37.160 And it was suffice as to say it really was 0:56:37.239 --> 0:56:42.680 Misleeds Quarter Leaven. But soon as he got off stage, 0:56:42.719 --> 0:56:47.880 he found a phone and called me, son, I know 0:56:47.920 --> 0:56:50.480 you're worried about me. I love you for that. And 0:56:50.520 --> 0:56:54.480 then his voice just cut higher and faster and higher 0:56:54.560 --> 0:56:58.799 and faster until he was shrieking. And the thing it 0:56:58.920 --> 0:57:01.160 was Bobby Burr that had a little hit record that 0:57:01.320 --> 0:57:04.840 called I need help. And he said, why in the 0:57:04.880 --> 0:57:07.520 world you gonna take Bobby Bird's word? You know he 0:57:07.600 --> 0:57:15.440 needs help? Don't you never cancel the show unless I 0:57:15.560 --> 0:57:18.320 tell you. And he's like, I gotta be up here 0:57:18.400 --> 0:57:24.600 sick and worked to have a house. So yeah, things happen. Um, 0:57:24.760 --> 0:57:27.680 you know, it's not one of my better days. But 0:57:27.680 --> 0:57:32.120 but you still can't be cool. Um, no, no, did 0:57:32.120 --> 0:57:36.200 he fire? No, actually he didn't. I was a standard, 0:57:36.280 --> 0:57:39.200 he didn't. I mean, how many times you reckon you've gotten? 0:57:40.040 --> 0:57:42.760 Was getting fired and laid off? Always like a thing 0:57:42.760 --> 0:57:45.960 with him, like was it a running not a running joke? 0:57:46.080 --> 0:57:49.680 But I got fired twice, which was not a lie 0:57:50.400 --> 0:57:52.240 in that camp. I mean there were some guys. I 0:57:52.240 --> 0:57:55.360 mean he's like anybody didn't any kind of self made 0:57:55.360 --> 0:57:58.320 man who runs his own business. He has a very 0:57:58.440 --> 0:58:02.120 very keen knack of re eating people and knowing how 0:58:02.160 --> 0:58:05.280 far to go. Was that mean he knows who will 0:58:05.400 --> 0:58:09.640 take certain things and who won't. And you know the 0:58:09.640 --> 0:58:11.919 guys that are vulnerable, they get fired once a week, 0:58:12.800 --> 0:58:15.440 and it was usually right before pay day. You know, 0:58:18.520 --> 0:58:23.120 So when when did you leave the organization? What you uh, 0:58:23.800 --> 0:58:27.160 finally seventy four and you're there for the mustache period, 0:58:28.080 --> 0:58:34.919 the big yeah yeah, yeah. Context. But I don't think 0:58:36.240 --> 0:58:38.880 this is a generational thing because it's it's like I 0:58:39.160 --> 0:58:41.240 I didn't realize until I went to work for Prince 0:58:41.800 --> 0:58:44.880 how because James had lasted so long, had gone through 0:58:44.920 --> 0:58:49.480 so many metamorphoses artistically, that every generation has their own 0:58:49.560 --> 0:58:52.960 James Brown. And you know, like you said, your favorite 0:58:52.960 --> 0:58:57.160 Apollo album is three and mine is probably two. But 0:58:57.320 --> 0:58:59.720 you know, it depends how old you are and what 0:59:00.040 --> 0:59:02.560 your personal taste and so. But but you know, very 0:59:02.600 --> 0:59:07.920 few artists have that many phases that are so distinctly different. Um, 0:59:07.960 --> 0:59:10.720 but when you're that close, you don't think of it. 0:59:10.760 --> 0:59:12.600 And I think of it in terms of the records. 0:59:13.360 --> 0:59:15.680 But you know when you say the month when when 0:59:15.720 --> 0:59:18.480 you guys first started talking to me about the mustache period, 0:59:18.520 --> 0:59:20.240 I was like, huh, I had to go back and 0:59:20.280 --> 0:59:23.160 look at pictures to see when more because I'm not 0:59:23.280 --> 0:59:29.360 like clocking this mustache? Right? Did the music change when? Right? Well? 0:59:29.440 --> 0:59:32.400 I would call that the payback era because that was 0:59:32.480 --> 0:59:36.080 like the big comeback record and arguably his last great record. 0:59:36.680 --> 0:59:40.680 So were you did you go to the Zaire? Were 0:59:40.680 --> 0:59:44.040 you there for the Muhammad Ali? No? No, unfortunately you 0:59:44.280 --> 0:59:48.320 left by that point. I don't remember if I had left, 0:59:48.440 --> 0:59:51.000 but he wouldn't have took me anyway, because so you 0:59:51.160 --> 0:59:54.280 when you tour manage, you were always in the home base. 0:59:54.360 --> 0:59:56.400 And since that, you know, it was back and forth. 0:59:56.480 --> 0:59:59.280 What would happen is we'd work in the office month 0:59:59.560 --> 1:00:03.080 through third is d and on Friday one if not 1:00:03.240 --> 1:00:05.480 both of us, meaning the guys who were booking the 1:00:05.520 --> 1:00:09.520 shows would fly out and join the tour for the weekend, 1:00:10.440 --> 1:00:12.720 and usually it was just one of us. We take turns. 1:00:12.760 --> 1:00:15.440 That's why I was home when he was in Providence, 1:00:15.640 --> 1:00:18.120 in sick in New York. It was my weekend to 1:00:18.120 --> 1:00:22.080 be home. But um, but I wasn't a road manager 1:00:22.280 --> 1:00:26.520 in the sense that I was on the bus constantly, Okay, 1:00:26.680 --> 1:00:28.280 So it was very much back and forth. I mean 1:00:28.320 --> 1:00:30.960 it was. It would never never two weeks went by 1:00:31.000 --> 1:00:35.160 where I didn't see the show somewhere. So what happens 1:00:35.240 --> 1:00:38.600 after seventy four? Now I know that your period of 1:00:38.720 --> 1:00:43.840 Prince was he started uh eighty two, well the last 1:00:43.840 --> 1:00:45.600 stages of the nineteen so he came in eighty three, 1:00:46.200 --> 1:00:49.960 eight three. So what were those ten years? What did 1:00:50.040 --> 1:00:52.000 you do in the in between those ten years? Like 1:00:52.080 --> 1:00:55.560 what other acts are? Well, actually got married and had 1:00:55.600 --> 1:00:57.600 a kid, which kept me at home for a while, 1:00:57.960 --> 1:01:01.160 and then I was I was actually promoting shows, um, 1:01:01.200 --> 1:01:03.320 putting little R and b at, a at, a backer 1:01:03.400 --> 1:01:06.000 and a partner, and we were putting little packages together 1:01:06.160 --> 1:01:09.680 and taking a tour like the Shylights and the Stylistas 1:01:09.680 --> 1:01:11.920 and the Detroit damnerals, take three or four bands, put 1:01:12.000 --> 1:01:15.160 them together and and book a four day runting down 1:01:15.240 --> 1:01:19.240 South somewhere. Maybe play Charlotte, Raleigh, Richmond, you know that 1:01:19.320 --> 1:01:22.520 kind of a thing. Now, had touring conditions changed by 1:01:22.640 --> 1:01:27.600 the mid seventies than it was in the in the sixties, 1:01:27.880 --> 1:01:33.800 they were starting to they were starting to. Um, it 1:01:33.920 --> 1:01:36.560 had dramatically changed in the pop world. It was a 1:01:36.560 --> 1:01:39.800 little bit ahead of the R and B world. But um, 1:01:42.640 --> 1:01:44.800 it wasn't so much that the business changed as much 1:01:44.880 --> 1:01:47.480 as the culture changed. I mean just the face of 1:01:47.480 --> 1:01:53.040 America was changing. The lifestyles, the living conditions, everything was changing. Um, 1:01:53.360 --> 1:01:57.960 at least on the surface it things weren't as as 1:01:58.000 --> 1:02:04.800 overtly segregated, meaning that here's an example. Back in the sixties, 1:02:05.640 --> 1:02:07.240 if you're gonna play in New York, you played the 1:02:07.240 --> 1:02:09.360 Apollo Theater. I mean you could count on one hand 1:02:09.400 --> 1:02:11.680 the black artist who could who could do enough business 1:02:11.720 --> 1:02:16.160 to play the Garden, But you would play the Apollo 1:02:16.320 --> 1:02:19.400 and do four four shows a day, five on weekends. 1:02:20.840 --> 1:02:22.720 So if you played the Apollo for a week, and 1:02:22.760 --> 1:02:25.880 the typical booking was you opened the show opened on Friday, 1:02:26.040 --> 1:02:28.000 one o'clock in the afternoon the first show on the 1:02:28.080 --> 1:02:33.960 first and then second show is like four seven and ten, 1:02:35.040 --> 1:02:36.880 and how long are the shows? How long is the show? 1:02:37.000 --> 1:02:43.320 Two hours? But inside these shows were comedians. Yeah, yeah, 1:02:43.360 --> 1:02:45.439 it was. It was. It was not as you sang, 1:02:45.440 --> 1:02:47.680 it's for two hours straight. It was kind of no, 1:02:47.840 --> 1:02:50.560 because there would be support acts and the star might 1:02:50.600 --> 1:02:55.880 do fifty minutes our dependent on the audience feel satisfied 1:02:55.960 --> 1:02:58.640 that totally. That's what they were used to. They didn't know. 1:02:58.800 --> 1:03:02.680 I'm just used to, you know, the lead person doing 1:03:02.800 --> 1:03:05.240 a two hour show. Yeah, but nobody did that then, 1:03:06.400 --> 1:03:09.280 Oh okay, nobody did that. Very few people doing that, 1:03:09.160 --> 1:03:15.080 and nobody's given to our shows. Now that's very rare, no, 1:03:15.200 --> 1:03:17.200 I mean you we we would. We would tour and 1:03:17.320 --> 1:03:20.480 have say the Stylistics as a support act. After they 1:03:21.040 --> 1:03:23.560 were talking about Stylistics when they were on maybe their 1:03:23.560 --> 1:03:27.320 third or fourth hit single like rock rock and roll baby, Yeah, 1:03:28.840 --> 1:03:32.880 the hits um, but the first hits well, I mean 1:03:32.960 --> 1:03:36.360 like the round two albums and you may yeah exactly, 1:03:36.680 --> 1:03:40.680 and they'd get twenty minutes, twenty minutes. Yeah, they ain't 1:03:40.720 --> 1:03:43.880 got the three jams. What they gonna do? Well, I 1:03:43.880 --> 1:03:48.640 don't know. My research. They would use some songs and yeah, 1:03:48.680 --> 1:03:51.640 that's what they did after they ran out of their hits. 1:03:51.680 --> 1:03:57.240 Everybody did Alfhie. You know, you're right, did Alfie? Everyone 1:03:57.320 --> 1:04:00.800 did Alfie? Yeah, yeah they do. I mean that's a 1:04:00.880 --> 1:04:04.160 very seventies thing. But but it's you know, nobody expected 1:04:04.200 --> 1:04:07.880 them to do more. So let's kiss your first foray 1:04:07.920 --> 1:04:13.280 into the rock world. Yeah really, the only one. Now, 1:04:13.360 --> 1:04:17.560 why why did they seek you out? They didn't? Oh you, 1:04:18.640 --> 1:04:23.120 I just believe it or not. This is the only 1:04:23.200 --> 1:04:28.160 act I ever chased was James Brown. Every everything else 1:04:28.400 --> 1:04:30.600 came just by being in the right place at the 1:04:30.680 --> 1:04:33.200 right time. It's just God looks out for fools or something. 1:04:35.480 --> 1:04:38.680 The only show I really chased was James Brown. But 1:04:38.920 --> 1:04:41.840 I had been off the road for several years, okay, 1:04:42.480 --> 1:04:44.640 and was looking to get back in it and paranoid 1:04:44.720 --> 1:04:49.200 because the business had changed. This is now one. So 1:04:49.280 --> 1:04:52.320 after they took the makeup off, No they was. It 1:04:52.400 --> 1:04:54.960 was actually the Creatures of the Night was the album 1:04:55.320 --> 1:04:57.680 which didn't sell and it was their last tour. Would 1:04:57.720 --> 1:05:01.080 make up before it came off? Or they still playing stadiums, 1:05:01.480 --> 1:05:04.840 or they down they were playing arenas but see markets 1:05:05.520 --> 1:05:10.240 and half filling them. It was really a low exactly. Yeah, 1:05:10.600 --> 1:05:15.480 I played pretty much pretty much, but they always had 1:05:15.560 --> 1:05:19.240 big production still like it was a big show. Okay, Yeah, 1:05:19.320 --> 1:05:21.760 they had to satisfy their fans and they hoped to 1:05:22.600 --> 1:05:29.280 what was that experience like loud? Really yeah? I mean, 1:05:29.320 --> 1:05:31.760 I can honestly say, and it should be a shame 1:05:31.880 --> 1:05:34.160 to say this, but I can honestly say I did 1:05:34.160 --> 1:05:38.000 not know one of the songs you weren't doing like 1:05:38.040 --> 1:05:45.720 I was reading for Loving You Christian, no clue I 1:05:45.760 --> 1:05:49.680 love kiss man. No j Brown had gotten in my head. Man, 1:05:49.760 --> 1:05:52.959 if it wasn't funky, or if it wasn't jazz, I 1:05:53.000 --> 1:05:55.640 was not me. But the Dynasty album they're trying to 1:05:55.640 --> 1:06:02.320 get a little fucking joint word is trying, you know. 1:06:02.600 --> 1:06:04.760 I mean, you know, I was impressible seven year old 1:06:04.800 --> 1:06:06.560 kid at the time, So you know, I get if 1:06:06.600 --> 1:06:08.520 I was seven out of probably get impressed too. I 1:06:08.560 --> 1:06:13.920 don't know, impressed enough to buy the book. I'm just 1:06:14.000 --> 1:06:20.200 saying that I'm not. I wasn't a kiss fanatic, But 1:06:20.680 --> 1:06:22.880 I mean I grew up in the household in which 1:06:23.880 --> 1:06:26.680 you know what, you you developed your musical taste in 1:06:26.720 --> 1:06:30.080 your formative years from the other adults in the house. 1:06:30.760 --> 1:06:37.240 You're your parents, I'm she was in the kiss. Well, no, 1:06:37.680 --> 1:06:42.200 I'm just doing the particular high school. So you're saying 1:06:42.280 --> 1:06:45.080 my mother turned me on too, James brand Oh man, 1:06:45.240 --> 1:06:51.920 I'm just saying everyone has a cool older figure. I'm 1:06:51.960 --> 1:06:59.840 just saying that I I don't know me man like you. 1:07:00.120 --> 1:07:02.000 I mean, look, it's all good. I just for me. 1:07:02.120 --> 1:07:04.360 I mean I was in the South. They had makeup 1:07:04.440 --> 1:07:06.760 on that was like, you know, it was some devil ship. 1:07:09.360 --> 1:07:11.520 I'm gonna tell you though, that's pretty much I'm kissing 1:07:11.560 --> 1:07:14.640 twisted sister, all that ship all but not see. But 1:07:14.720 --> 1:07:16.520 you're missing in the seventies and ages. I know you're 1:07:16.520 --> 1:07:20.200 born a little bit after me, but feeling the same 1:07:20.280 --> 1:07:24.000 character like white men with paint on now reminded me 1:07:24.680 --> 1:07:29.560 Stephen King. I just know I'm good with all that ship. No, 1:07:30.160 --> 1:07:33.600 I'm just like when yeah, you sound like pretty good. 1:07:33.880 --> 1:07:38.040 Already established the reason I have the shows because my 1:07:38.440 --> 1:07:43.760 sponge memory for stupid details, like even Allen asking Alan 1:07:43.880 --> 1:07:46.680 questions I don't want to know about, like does he 1:07:46.760 --> 1:07:48.840 show the poster with the sex machine lyrics on it? 1:07:49.680 --> 1:07:52.040 I want to know what James Brown's writer was in 1:07:52.200 --> 1:07:59.480 ninety three yo I've heard crazy writers stories from various groups. 1:07:59.640 --> 1:08:02.960 I think, uh, let's see that. We didn't have riders, 1:08:04.520 --> 1:08:06.760 know what? Any right? Did you know? The contracts that 1:08:06.880 --> 1:08:12.680 we have were like one page. That's literally it was 1:08:12.760 --> 1:08:14.960 just like, yeah, this is this is the date, this 1:08:15.160 --> 1:08:17.560 is the time of place. So it never occurred to you, 1:08:17.680 --> 1:08:22.360 guys the number one touring attraction for black music in America, 1:08:22.400 --> 1:08:25.960 probably second to the Motortown Review, which I guess lost 1:08:26.040 --> 1:08:30.400 team after six or sixty five sixty six. It never 1:08:30.439 --> 1:08:33.439 occurred to you guys wants to like, hey, maybe we 1:08:33.560 --> 1:08:38.080 can have because he brought everything donuts, No, he brought everything. 1:08:38.240 --> 1:08:43.120 Every anything he wanted he brought with him. Okay, his 1:08:43.240 --> 1:08:47.680 dressing room was full of stuff, but he would just 1:08:47.800 --> 1:08:50.040 bring it because there was The promoters didn't do that. 1:08:50.360 --> 1:08:53.320 I'll give you give you an example. Teddy Powell. I 1:08:53.360 --> 1:08:55.120 don't know if you know who that was. He was 1:08:55.520 --> 1:08:59.120 a major, major black music promoter based in New York, 1:08:59.280 --> 1:09:02.439 but he promoted all over the Northeast and he took 1:09:02.479 --> 1:09:05.800 tours out. He took single dates, he played gospel shows, 1:09:05.840 --> 1:09:08.479 he played jazz festivals, he played R and B tours, 1:09:09.240 --> 1:09:12.880 and whenever we played Newark was played for Teddy. He was, 1:09:13.280 --> 1:09:17.280 you know, our promoter in Newark, and he would occasionally 1:09:17.360 --> 1:09:20.200 buy dates and put him in under the City's too um. 1:09:21.160 --> 1:09:23.679 Teddy had a Marvin Gay two ur shortly after What's 1:09:23.720 --> 1:09:28.479 Going On broke and Marvin had a rider. And this 1:09:28.680 --> 1:09:33.080 was when I was in Pittsburgh and I went. I 1:09:33.160 --> 1:09:36.040 went to the show to basically to see Teddy and 1:09:36.160 --> 1:09:40.160 hang out and talk shop. And he's like home, He 1:09:40.240 --> 1:09:42.799 called everybody home. It was just a real old school 1:09:42.960 --> 1:09:46.559 kind of you know, rough promoter always had a suit 1:09:46.640 --> 1:09:49.200 and tie on, but it was always wrinkled, you know 1:09:49.640 --> 1:09:52.320 that guy. And he's like, oh, I gotta take it. 1:09:53.280 --> 1:09:57.000 Been promoting shows for twenty years now. I'm a rug merchant. 1:09:57.640 --> 1:10:00.040 You know what scripe Marvin Kay? I mean, I know 1:10:00.120 --> 1:10:02.840 he's got a big hit, but it says he's wants 1:10:02.960 --> 1:10:07.280 carpeting and to dressing. We're in the arena. Arenas don't 1:10:07.360 --> 1:10:11.439 have carpeting and dressing room. But I got him. Wow. 1:10:12.160 --> 1:10:15.400 He laid out newspaper and taped it to the floor. 1:10:17.920 --> 1:10:20.800 You can't make this up. I saw it, and that 1:10:21.000 --> 1:10:22.800 was his way of saying, get the hell out of here. 1:10:22.880 --> 1:10:30.120 What's your writer? Okay? Yeah, so it took a minute 1:10:30.200 --> 1:10:33.800 before the artists had the juice to make those kind 1:10:33.880 --> 1:10:36.680 of demands, and promoters the whole balance of the relationship. 1:10:36.960 --> 1:10:39.880 Back in those days, the promoter was, God, this is 1:10:39.960 --> 1:10:43.439 the guy that paid you. You worked for him. I 1:10:43.880 --> 1:10:46.599 guess you got a start. I got the kiss gig 1:10:46.640 --> 1:10:51.200 guy got out of a classified ad in variety. They 1:10:51.280 --> 1:10:53.800 took an ad out. They took an ad. They were 1:10:53.840 --> 1:10:59.799 being managed by a business manager. Their their their longtime manager. 1:11:00.080 --> 1:11:04.120 The coined it parted ways. So their managers were a 1:11:04.200 --> 1:11:07.599 couple of guys who were really accountants clickman and Marx 1:11:07.840 --> 1:11:13.640 how are it? Clickman? I forget so you know all 1:11:13.680 --> 1:11:18.760 about it? Um, And they were not really rocket road guys. UM. 1:11:19.040 --> 1:11:21.040 Longer short of it is Yeah, they put an ad. 1:11:21.240 --> 1:11:25.519 They needed a road manager because they had a tour manager, 1:11:25.920 --> 1:11:28.160 but they needed somebody to handle all the travel and 1:11:28.240 --> 1:11:30.840 the logistics because the tour manager was too good to 1:11:30.880 --> 1:11:32.760 do that stuff. It was that kind of a thing. 1:11:33.360 --> 1:11:34.960 And I was looking for a way to get back 1:11:35.040 --> 1:11:38.200 into business. And as I said, the business had changed 1:11:38.200 --> 1:11:40.160 a lot. It It was on the verge of turning 1:11:40.240 --> 1:11:42.599 from a low tech to you know, mom and pop 1:11:43.240 --> 1:11:46.160 business into something that wasn't quite high tech yet, but 1:11:46.280 --> 1:11:49.080 it was on the way it was changing. It was 1:11:49.280 --> 1:11:53.360 definitely corporatized, and particularly with kiss because they were a 1:11:53.400 --> 1:11:57.080 corporation and ran things that way. But longer short of 1:11:57.160 --> 1:11:58.800 it is I guess the only way they knew to 1:11:58.840 --> 1:12:01.280 do it, because what ever think to put an ad 1:12:01.479 --> 1:12:04.360 in variety for a rock and roll road managers? And 1:12:04.560 --> 1:12:07.400 it was insane. But it was like they saying it's 1:12:07.400 --> 1:12:09.920 for kissing. It was just I don't know. In fact, 1:12:10.000 --> 1:12:13.680 it was it was an employment agency that placed to 1:12:13.760 --> 1:12:16.360 add on their behalf. I mean a place like I 1:12:16.439 --> 1:12:19.360 went to apply for this job with no idea of 1:12:19.400 --> 1:12:23.040 who the group was, and it was the kind of 1:12:23.080 --> 1:12:26.400 employment agency where there's like twenty people taking typing tests 1:12:26.600 --> 1:12:30.439 to go to work as clerical people in offices like 1:12:30.600 --> 1:12:40.880 Manpower exactly. It was like insane, Ah, man Manpower, it's 1:12:40.920 --> 1:12:46.599 where people we did Moore go to fund It really 1:12:46.720 --> 1:12:48.920 is that man Power was like if gessfore you went, 1:12:49.080 --> 1:12:52.080 if you you know, you didn't have like no, no 1:12:52.240 --> 1:12:54.680 kind of degree and nothing like the job corps. It's 1:12:54.720 --> 1:12:57.439 not quite it's like Manpower and the job corps like 1:12:57.520 --> 1:13:00.720 the bottom of the remember feel a job yeah, but 1:13:00.760 --> 1:13:03.519 at least you're geting the office and manpower. Yet your 1:13:03.600 --> 1:13:07.000 job called they seen you like third world countries. How 1:13:07.000 --> 1:13:09.519 do you know that that's peace Corps. Now I think 1:13:09.560 --> 1:13:16.639 it's dropped. Say whatever, it's not. It's bad peace job 1:13:16.800 --> 1:13:19.920 Corps on the court. It's like gardens and rhymed about 1:13:20.000 --> 1:13:22.080 job of corps. So I knew it was bad instantly, 1:13:22.920 --> 1:13:24.479 but now I knew. But I used to work. I had. 1:13:24.640 --> 1:13:30.160 I had a temp job before I had a couple 1:13:30.200 --> 1:13:35.320 of now I had. I worked in a call center. 1:13:35.479 --> 1:13:38.439 I used to call just call people for the government. 1:13:39.320 --> 1:13:41.559 Who for the government, Well you wanted they wanted their 1:13:41.600 --> 1:13:43.720 money back or now it was like some kind of 1:13:43.840 --> 1:13:46.360 survey that they wanted to do. It was some bullshit. 1:13:46.760 --> 1:13:49.040 But I would just call and around. That's why I 1:13:49.080 --> 1:13:51.640 have a good speaking voice on radio. A man. I 1:13:51.720 --> 1:13:53.760 was started the call center and then after that went 1:13:53.840 --> 1:13:57.600 to work for Blue Cross, another call center. Things you 1:13:57.720 --> 1:14:07.720 learn that su never mind and forget it. So what 1:14:08.160 --> 1:14:12.360 what what was your your experience with kiss Like, what 1:14:13.080 --> 1:14:15.360 what was the difference between Matt and James Brown. I 1:14:15.479 --> 1:14:17.600 know that I would assume that you could say that 1:14:17.680 --> 1:14:20.719 James Brown was high maintenance. So what was the difference. 1:14:20.800 --> 1:14:23.400 The difference was James Brown, I was raced to see 1:14:23.439 --> 1:14:26.640 the show. Would kiss the gig was get back to 1:14:26.720 --> 1:14:30.200 the hotel. I didn't have to see the show. I 1:14:30.240 --> 1:14:32.360 mean I saw it once. I was impressed. It was cool. 1:14:33.360 --> 1:14:35.400 But I would think that you would have to always 1:14:35.520 --> 1:14:38.240 just be there to whole hands because that that they 1:14:38.320 --> 1:14:41.080 had a tour manager and as long that it was 1:14:41.200 --> 1:14:43.879 way more important. I mean, they were a well oiled machine. 1:14:44.479 --> 1:14:47.360 They had the right kind of security, the right kind 1:14:47.400 --> 1:14:50.400 of tour manager. They just needed to know that there 1:14:50.400 --> 1:14:52.320 would be the right fruit salad in the room when 1:14:52.360 --> 1:14:54.360 they get back to the hotel. Do you tell the 1:14:54.400 --> 1:14:58.479 food salad story real quick? I mean it was like 1:14:59.360 --> 1:15:02.040 he's literally telling the truth. It's like that that that 1:15:02.240 --> 1:15:04.280 was the most important thing was they had to be 1:15:04.360 --> 1:15:08.839 a fruit salad for Gene. They all had an idea 1:15:08.960 --> 1:15:11.320 menu for what they wanted in their rooms, and I'm 1:15:11.360 --> 1:15:13.439 talking it should be in the room when they walk in. 1:15:13.960 --> 1:15:17.439 The makeup is dripping in, the suits are still on 1:15:17.600 --> 1:15:21.679 its on, but the food has to be there. Proper temperature, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. 1:15:22.160 --> 1:15:24.360 Which is find if you're in at risk. Carton but 1:15:24.479 --> 1:15:27.360 if you're in a holiday inn in Dubuque, Iowa, where 1:15:27.400 --> 1:15:30.760 the kitchen clothed it, ten forget it. So that's how 1:15:30.800 --> 1:15:32.479 I got out of having to watch the shows, because 1:15:32.479 --> 1:15:34.559 I would actually take the limit after I dropped them 1:15:34.560 --> 1:15:36.800 at the show. Once the show went up, I take 1:15:36.880 --> 1:15:41.040 one of the cars and goes shopping and actually find 1:15:41.080 --> 1:15:44.479 a supermarket and make the fruit salad because and the 1:15:44.560 --> 1:15:46.680 reason was that was like about the third or fourth 1:15:46.760 --> 1:15:51.800 show out. Um, I get a call from Gene right 1:15:51.840 --> 1:15:54.840 after they got in their rooms, walked them up, mediment lobby, 1:15:54.920 --> 1:15:57.280 walked them up to let them to their rooms. Go 1:15:57.400 --> 1:15:59.559 back to my room. About five minutes later, phone rings, 1:16:00.320 --> 1:16:05.280 come to my room. Okay, come to this room. This 1:16:05.520 --> 1:16:08.280 is a fruit salad. And it means all of a sudden, 1:16:08.360 --> 1:16:11.680 this rock and roll star in makeup still got the 1:16:11.800 --> 1:16:20.200 uniform on, and he sounds like Jackie Mason. He's like, 1:16:20.720 --> 1:16:24.640 you called this a fruit salad, like Rodney Dangerfield. And 1:16:26.040 --> 1:16:27.800 he picks up a piece and I mean it was 1:16:27.880 --> 1:16:31.240 like about four slices of orange and like two slices 1:16:31.280 --> 1:16:33.519 of pineapple and something. This is what this holiday is 1:16:33.640 --> 1:16:38.040 called the fruit salad? Right, this is not a fruit salad. 1:16:38.320 --> 1:16:42.640 This is ship. This is what I pay you for. 1:16:42.920 --> 1:16:44.960 So it was like, okay, I got it. I'm gonna 1:16:45.000 --> 1:16:47.200 make the fruit salad. So for the next, you know, 1:16:47.360 --> 1:16:49.120 the rest of the tour, I made the fruit salad. 1:16:49.240 --> 1:16:51.080 So you're trying to tell me that the only one 1:16:51.240 --> 1:16:55.760 kiss was not It's a totally different man. Halen like, wait, 1:16:55.800 --> 1:16:58.200 I'm like fruit salad. What about the women and the 1:16:58.439 --> 1:17:02.200 groupies and the like? Were they beyond that now? And that? 1:17:02.200 --> 1:17:04.320 I was just like, all right, I'm on stage. Where's 1:17:04.520 --> 1:17:07.160 no Jean was still seeing both d and Ross and Share, 1:17:07.240 --> 1:17:11.519 so he was juggling, That's right, he was. He was 1:17:11.760 --> 1:17:16.880 Diana Ross and Yeah and Um. How long did that 1:17:17.040 --> 1:17:20.800 last for UM one tour? It was like three months, 1:17:21.000 --> 1:17:23.560 two months, three months something like that. So when it 1:17:23.680 --> 1:17:25.599 was over, you thought you were coming home. I thought 1:17:25.640 --> 1:17:29.240 I was coming home. They shared the production manager with Prince. 1:17:29.360 --> 1:17:34.200 Prince was out in the tour, and the production manager 1:17:34.320 --> 1:17:37.080 caught me and Catering at like the second to last 1:17:37.120 --> 1:17:39.960 gig on the kiss around like a typical conversation, what 1:17:40.000 --> 1:17:41.240 do you do when you go home? I don't know. 1:17:41.280 --> 1:17:43.920 I'm going to wait for the phone to ring and 1:17:44.280 --> 1:17:46.439 um and he says, well, you're interested in the Prince 1:17:46.520 --> 1:17:49.400 gig because he just let somebody go. And that was 1:17:49.520 --> 1:17:53.080 like the second or third tour MANAGERIED had on that 1:17:53.200 --> 1:17:56.479 particular tour, And I was like, of course I'm interested 1:17:56.960 --> 1:17:58.920 when he pays me to go home, Yes, I'm interested. 1:17:59.040 --> 1:18:01.320 Now the rere he was, I had already fallen in 1:18:01.479 --> 1:18:04.919 love with Prince. It was very obvious this guy's going places, 1:18:05.760 --> 1:18:08.040 and it was a show I'd enjoy seeing every night. 1:18:08.200 --> 1:18:10.240 Now I had no idea what the gig was gonna be, 1:18:10.360 --> 1:18:13.920 like I've heard he's difficult, a little crazy, but you know, 1:18:14.040 --> 1:18:16.240 I didn't really know much. I didn't know anybody in 1:18:16.280 --> 1:18:19.760 the camp, so I really went in there blind. Did 1:18:19.800 --> 1:18:22.200 that were you that he already went through two or 1:18:22.280 --> 1:18:25.360 three during one tour? No? No, there was only a 1:18:25.439 --> 1:18:28.160 month left on his tour and it was either that 1:18:28.320 --> 1:18:29.880 or go home, and said, of my butt until the 1:18:29.920 --> 1:18:33.439 phone rang And I loved his music. Well, so to 1:18:33.520 --> 1:18:35.280 me it was it was. It was terrific. It was 1:18:35.360 --> 1:18:37.880 like an opportunity to get into camp that that that 1:18:38.120 --> 1:18:40.800 had a future. But I'm in worried as in like 1:18:40.960 --> 1:18:44.200 I would think like when someone changes their cell phone 1:18:44.280 --> 1:18:51.759 number twice in a year. I'm already thinking, like I questioned, 1:18:51.800 --> 1:18:54.479 someone that changes their selves like their life and okay, 1:18:54.520 --> 1:18:57.280 what what life decisions have you made that brought to you? Right, 1:18:57.360 --> 1:18:59.160 it's like the spinal tap, like the whole joke of 1:18:59.479 --> 1:19:01.559 you went through eight drummers? Is that night drum Right? 1:19:01.840 --> 1:19:03.600 So I would figured to go through a couple of 1:19:03.640 --> 1:19:05.760 tour managers in such a short period of time that 1:19:05.880 --> 1:19:09.040 this person is difficult. Yeah, that was. But is it 1:19:09.120 --> 1:19:13.120 that you once you dealt with James Brown kind of 1:19:13.160 --> 1:19:17.320 handle anything? Maybe that was it? I mean, you know, 1:19:17.560 --> 1:19:19.800 was that in the back of my mind? Sure it was. 1:19:20.760 --> 1:19:23.360 And as I began, because I didn't know anybody on 1:19:23.479 --> 1:19:27.120 the tour except the production manager and um and he 1:19:27.200 --> 1:19:28.880 had warned me. The first thing he said, and the 1:19:28.960 --> 1:19:31.000 first thing for a no he said when he hired me, 1:19:31.760 --> 1:19:34.639 was don't approach Prince until he's comfortable with you. He'll 1:19:34.800 --> 1:19:36.880 let you know, he'll send you a side and somehow 1:19:37.040 --> 1:19:39.920 he'll let you know when he's ready to communicate with you. 1:19:40.680 --> 1:19:43.040 And like that that was normal sounding to you. No, 1:19:43.200 --> 1:19:46.439 of course not. But I was working for him. It 1:19:46.600 --> 1:19:48.960 was his house and it's like, so I don't have 1:19:49.080 --> 1:19:51.439 to put up with the the artist in my ear 1:19:51.520 --> 1:19:55.200 giving me instructions all the time. Great, I can't mess 1:19:55.320 --> 1:19:58.880 up something I'm not told to do. But someone has 1:19:58.960 --> 1:20:03.120 to be your your information person, alright. So so the 1:20:03.200 --> 1:20:05.360 first week out was out there and and I mean 1:20:05.520 --> 1:20:07.519 I went up to him, he took my hand the 1:20:07.600 --> 1:20:11.000 first night, welcome aboard, something like that. That was all 1:20:11.040 --> 1:20:14.400 we talked about. Um the third or fourth day I 1:20:14.479 --> 1:20:17.720 needed to talk to him about picking hotels. And traditionally 1:20:17.800 --> 1:20:20.120 I would go to an artist and say, here's where 1:20:20.160 --> 1:20:23.679 we're going. Do you have a favorite hotel in these cities, 1:20:24.280 --> 1:20:26.479 so as to make sure that they were booked where 1:20:26.520 --> 1:20:29.400 they would want to be, and being new in the camp, 1:20:29.479 --> 1:20:31.720 it sounded like a logical question. So I came up 1:20:31.720 --> 1:20:34.320 to the dressing room before show one night and I 1:20:34.439 --> 1:20:38.519 talked to Big Chick said I need to see Prince. Well, buddy, 1:20:38.600 --> 1:20:40.200 I don't know if that's a smart thing to do. 1:20:40.680 --> 1:20:44.200 I'm still new blood. So everybody's like patrinising me. And 1:20:44.280 --> 1:20:46.160 he says, well, here's the thing, what do you want 1:20:46.200 --> 1:20:49.639 to talk to him about? Now? Chick called himself looking 1:20:49.640 --> 1:20:53.759 out for me. I'm thinking he's blocking me, right, because 1:20:53.840 --> 1:20:56.559 I still don't get the doneamics of the person answering, 1:20:56.560 --> 1:20:59.360 you know, I'm new in camp and he says well, 1:20:59.560 --> 1:21:01.439 and I said, well, and you just talked to him 1:21:01.439 --> 1:21:04.960 about a few hotels for the next next few weeks. Buddy, 1:21:05.040 --> 1:21:08.160 here's the thing. He hired you because you know what 1:21:08.280 --> 1:21:10.800 you're doing, and if you ask him about hotels, he's 1:21:10.800 --> 1:21:12.760 gonna think you don't know what you're doing. Then why 1:21:12.800 --> 1:21:16.360 did he hire you? So you knew that logic was 1:21:16.439 --> 1:21:19.760 out the window, and so it was up to you 1:21:19.920 --> 1:21:22.400 to guess what his preferences. Yes, so I went to 1:21:22.479 --> 1:21:24.559 Bobby Z and I went to Farnoli and I said, 1:21:24.560 --> 1:21:30.400 where do you guys stay? It's like, okay, he doesn't 1:21:30.400 --> 1:21:34.360 want to talk about hotels. So maybe maybe a week 1:21:35.160 --> 1:21:38.679 into me being there, after four or five, six shows whatever, 1:21:39.160 --> 1:21:41.920 we're in St. Louis and we're in a hotel. After 1:21:42.040 --> 1:21:45.760 the show, I'm in the lobby bar with with the 1:21:45.800 --> 1:21:48.240 whole band I think was there all five of them probably, 1:21:48.520 --> 1:21:52.559 So they hung out occasionally occasionally, and you know, it's 1:21:52.560 --> 1:21:54.439 one of those deals where in a boring hotel and 1:21:54.720 --> 1:21:57.439 after hours and you're leaving first thing in the morning, 1:21:57.520 --> 1:21:59.600 so you're not gonna go out in the street and 1:22:00.000 --> 1:22:02.080 everybody just met. I'll meet you in the bar. We'll 1:22:02.120 --> 1:22:05.040 have a drink right just unwind after a show. So 1:22:05.160 --> 1:22:09.640 we're sitting in a huge round table and the band is. 1:22:09.920 --> 1:22:11.760 You know, I've had a couple of drinks, and it's 1:22:11.880 --> 1:22:14.240 kind of lively conversation and so on and so on, 1:22:15.479 --> 1:22:17.479 and suddenly we look up and here comes to Print 1:22:17.520 --> 1:22:22.439 and Chick walking across the lobby towards us. And what's 1:22:22.439 --> 1:22:26.720 fascinated to meet was the conversation stopped. There was a 1:22:26.880 --> 1:22:32.360 tension at the table. You could feel, and I'm like, hey, now, 1:22:32.439 --> 1:22:36.360 all of a sudden, everybody's scared to talk because into 1:22:36.439 --> 1:22:38.400 whatever it is they're saying, they don't want him to 1:22:38.479 --> 1:22:41.080 hear it, because what I didn't realize is that he 1:22:41.160 --> 1:22:43.400 has a way of taking what you say out of context, 1:22:43.439 --> 1:22:45.680 twisting it around him mean something else, and so on. 1:22:46.040 --> 1:22:48.519 So their whole thing was, let's just don't say anything 1:22:49.200 --> 1:22:53.880 unless we're asked. Now, I'm from New York, I don't 1:22:53.920 --> 1:22:57.840 know from That's like, I'll say anything. Pick what you want, 1:22:58.040 --> 1:23:01.679 you know. Um, as luck would have it. The only 1:23:01.760 --> 1:23:03.760 empty chair at the table, who was next to me, 1:23:05.200 --> 1:23:08.000 so Chicken Prince Head outside of the table and I 1:23:08.120 --> 1:23:10.639 get up to offer my seat to Chick, figuring Prince 1:23:10.680 --> 1:23:13.439 will take the empty seat, and Chick kind of physically 1:23:13.520 --> 1:23:17.519 pushes me back in the seat, which was the right 1:23:17.600 --> 1:23:19.800 thing to do, is the bodyguard. But I'm being polite 1:23:19.840 --> 1:23:23.000 because I'm the newbie, right. So we're sitting at the 1:23:23.080 --> 1:23:27.280 table and now it's like awkwardly quiet, and everybody's waiting 1:23:27.320 --> 1:23:30.360 for him to say something because now the boss is here, 1:23:30.920 --> 1:23:32.920 and you know, they were talking about how the show 1:23:33.120 --> 1:23:35.280 was and so on, but but maybe he didn't like 1:23:35.439 --> 1:23:38.479 the show, so they're afraid to express anything. They want 1:23:38.560 --> 1:23:40.600 to read him first. Did he like to show or 1:23:40.680 --> 1:23:43.599 did he not? Is he here to pick up this mood? 1:23:43.760 --> 1:23:45.600 Did we miss the que that if they want to 1:23:45.640 --> 1:23:49.320 read his mood? Right, So there's this awkward silence for 1:23:49.360 --> 1:23:52.640 about sixty seconds, and then he just turns to me 1:23:52.760 --> 1:23:54.719 in my ear and he says, tell me some James 1:23:54.760 --> 1:23:59.000 Brunce stories. Wow, And I don't know what I thought 1:23:59.000 --> 1:24:00.800 of something real quick. I don't really knows what I 1:24:00.880 --> 1:24:03.559 told him. I have no recollection at all. And from 1:24:03.640 --> 1:24:08.360 that point on we talked so that that was okay, 1:24:08.400 --> 1:24:13.920 you're in. You passed initiation really and after that I 1:24:13.960 --> 1:24:16.120 couldn't get in this shut up because now it is 1:24:16.520 --> 1:24:19.280 it is the guy calling number ten minutes with get this, 1:24:19.439 --> 1:24:22.320 do that, get this, do that. Knowing what I think 1:24:22.400 --> 1:24:26.240 I know about him, I would have thought he was 1:24:26.360 --> 1:24:30.920 testing you to see would you spill any secrets, like 1:24:31.120 --> 1:24:33.400 he was testing your loyalty. So the story you told 1:24:33.600 --> 1:24:36.400 must have been humorous enough to give just a little 1:24:36.400 --> 1:24:39.559 bit of information. I'm sure this is that one time 1:24:39.600 --> 1:24:43.280 when I caught James Brown, You're like, oh no, he's 1:24:43.280 --> 1:24:46.479 not no, no dirty laundry that that that's that's too 1:24:46.520 --> 1:24:48.320 are men and you want no one that you don't 1:24:48.439 --> 1:24:51.280 You never dis a previous artist with the New Orleans 1:24:51.320 --> 1:24:56.360 because wow, you just don't. So when when you entered 1:24:56.600 --> 1:25:04.080 the the realm of of the Prince tour um, what 1:25:05.080 --> 1:25:07.680 preparation of anything that you were given? Like what's your 1:25:08.320 --> 1:25:09.920 I still don't know how you just jump in the 1:25:10.000 --> 1:25:14.080 head first too an already existent situation. You know, you 1:25:14.240 --> 1:25:16.240 just dive in. You figure out what's been done, what 1:25:16.360 --> 1:25:18.720 hasn't been done. But the biggest thing in that situation, 1:25:18.880 --> 1:25:21.680 because I wasn't used to jumping in its stream, was 1:25:21.840 --> 1:25:24.960 just kind of observe the whole thing was like, let 1:25:25.040 --> 1:25:27.960 me clock everybody and see how this works. Catch the 1:25:28.080 --> 1:25:32.719 dynamics of the personalities, who's outspoken, who's a problem, who's cool, 1:25:32.880 --> 1:25:35.640 who oversleeps? You know, just get a sense of of 1:25:35.800 --> 1:25:39.200 what you're dealing with. You know, you can't reinvent it. 1:25:39.680 --> 1:25:42.599 You can't come in cold and and reinvent the wheel, 1:25:42.680 --> 1:25:46.560 because whatever they're doing, it's working. Did you have to 1:25:46.840 --> 1:25:50.080 uh to babysit all three acts or was it just Prince? 1:25:50.160 --> 1:25:55.040 And each act had a road manager but they all 1:25:55.080 --> 1:25:57.560 answered to you? Yeah, pretty much, because I was the 1:25:57.640 --> 1:25:59.760 one who was telling him what plane we're on and 1:26:00.280 --> 1:26:03.000 what hotel we're gonna be out and so on. They 1:26:03.000 --> 1:26:04.920 didn't have a voice in that. What the res are 1:26:04.920 --> 1:26:07.800 you talking about? Vanity six? In the time as you 1:26:07.920 --> 1:26:13.280 I'm referring to um? So was it? Was? It well oiled? 1:26:13.400 --> 1:26:16.439 Even with those acts, Like were they professional? Were they? 1:26:16.560 --> 1:26:19.120 Everybody was very professional and it was obvious that he 1:26:19.160 --> 1:26:24.320 didn't tolerate in bullshit, so it was a very professional operation. Now, still, 1:26:24.439 --> 1:26:27.439 there were a lot of opinionated people, and it was 1:26:27.680 --> 1:26:31.320 there was some you had a real sense of drama 1:26:32.000 --> 1:26:34.280 and obviously it didn't take long to learn. A lot 1:26:34.360 --> 1:26:37.400 of it had to do with, um, what had happened 1:26:37.439 --> 1:26:41.280 with Jimmy, jam and Terry before I joined, when they 1:26:41.320 --> 1:26:43.519 had broken away, and Mr Gig because they've been in 1:26:43.560 --> 1:26:45.839 the studio, wounded Atlanta and so on for the listeners 1:26:45.880 --> 1:26:50.400 who don't quick side note. So Jimmy and Terry uh 1:26:51.280 --> 1:26:54.680 flew to Atlanta to produce just be good to Me, right, 1:26:55.720 --> 1:26:59.280 and then an ounce of drop of snow came in 1:26:59.280 --> 1:27:05.280 Atlanta shut the airport down, thus forcing uh, I guess 1:27:05.400 --> 1:27:10.840 uh Brown Mark and Lisa and Prince to fill in. 1:27:11.400 --> 1:27:18.000 Uh the Times music backstage? Were you witnessed to that? No? No, 1:27:18.160 --> 1:27:22.000 there was before before. Okay, So by I mean by that, 1:27:22.120 --> 1:27:24.720 by that point though, I mean could you, I mean 1:27:24.800 --> 1:27:27.280 the bands weren't speaking. The first of all, there was 1:27:27.320 --> 1:27:31.320 a musical rivalry between the bands because the Time could 1:27:31.400 --> 1:27:38.479 kick their ass and often did. Yeah, I mean because 1:27:38.720 --> 1:27:42.560 but Prince did he not have his well, it was 1:27:43.360 --> 1:27:46.720 already he designed that he wanted that. Well, I know that. 1:27:46.840 --> 1:27:49.080 But when I hear like, oh, the Time kicked our 1:27:49.120 --> 1:27:52.080 ass tonight, like I think it was like the frankis 1:27:52.080 --> 1:27:54.240 not Minster that kind of went beyond his control. Like 1:27:54.320 --> 1:27:56.360 I think it was I think the time was him 1:27:56.400 --> 1:27:58.240 just kind of getting his funk nut off, like I'll 1:27:58.280 --> 1:28:00.320 just do this kind of function. But you know, for 1:28:00.400 --> 1:28:04.560 a while, and I think even when we talked to 1:28:05.400 --> 1:28:08.840 Brown Mark and them, right, you know, they were saying that, 1:28:08.920 --> 1:28:13.519 I mean, because you know, after while the time was 1:28:13.960 --> 1:28:17.960 I mean, that was like the black audience, So they 1:28:18.000 --> 1:28:22.080 were It was a stylistic thing as much as anything else, 1:28:22.360 --> 1:28:26.200 because the nature of the songs, the repertoire was was different. 1:28:26.520 --> 1:28:28.719 It was more R and B. Yeah, it was hardcore 1:28:28.840 --> 1:28:30.680 R and B. When you get when, I mean, you 1:28:30.760 --> 1:28:35.400 can't funk with a ten minute vamp on cool a little. 1:28:37.439 --> 1:28:41.360 It's a tremendous song, but it ain't gonna do to 1:28:41.479 --> 1:28:45.400 a house what ten minutes to Cool does or seven 1:28:45.479 --> 1:28:50.160 seven seven, I mean, I get it. So, I mean 1:28:52.880 --> 1:28:55.439 they were just at at best cordial to each other 1:28:55.520 --> 1:28:58.719 by that point best. And then there was the Vanity 1:28:58.840 --> 1:29:01.360 sixth thing where he did been you know, been through 1:29:01.400 --> 1:29:04.200 the Vanity thing. They had already broken up, but he 1:29:04.320 --> 1:29:06.160 was trying to make people think he was still in 1:29:06.320 --> 1:29:09.200 there and they would hang together. But she was making 1:29:09.240 --> 1:29:11.720 everybody aware that it was just to hang that she 1:29:11.880 --> 1:29:14.960 was really done with him. And Susan Moons he's still 1:29:15.120 --> 1:29:18.160 his like sometimes friend, but she's not sleeping with him either, 1:29:19.360 --> 1:29:22.040 And Jill Jones is there, and I mean it was 1:29:22.320 --> 1:29:30.559 it was crazy at that levels of awesome juggling. One 1:29:30.680 --> 1:29:35.559 day fontago, you and I will discuss life. Life goes, 1:29:41.720 --> 1:29:43.760 I guess by the point. But by the time you 1:29:43.880 --> 1:29:51.160 joined the tour, the fabled Purple Notebook ever show itself. 1:29:51.320 --> 1:29:55.519 I mean, how much talk of we might do a 1:29:55.600 --> 1:29:58.120 movie or this sort of thing. Well, I heard that. 1:29:58.920 --> 1:30:00.800 I heard that because some of the guys in the 1:30:00.840 --> 1:30:03.760 band were talking about it. Jill Jones was talking about it. 1:30:03.840 --> 1:30:06.280 I remember Vanity and Susan Moon's he telling me, you know, 1:30:06.360 --> 1:30:08.639 he's writing in his notebook and these ideas. He thinks 1:30:08.640 --> 1:30:11.400 he's gonna make a movie, and everybody kind of like 1:30:11.960 --> 1:30:16.400 the sense I got was that nobody really believed it, 1:30:16.520 --> 1:30:19.479 but everybody was too afraid of him to express it. 1:30:19.880 --> 1:30:22.120 So everybody acted like, yeah, we're gonna make a movie, 1:30:22.439 --> 1:30:27.400 but you know, but like they didn't believe it. At 1:30:27.439 --> 1:30:30.800 what point did it become like, oh crap, this really 1:30:30.880 --> 1:30:34.160 is going to happen. Um About a month after I 1:30:34.320 --> 1:30:38.160 was in Minneapolis and we started doing casting calls. Well. 1:30:38.760 --> 1:30:43.200 But the one thing that I noticed when at least 1:30:43.240 --> 1:30:46.960 for searching the notes of the music that went into 1:30:47.120 --> 1:30:51.320 Purple Rain, was that he was on a serious deadline 1:30:51.840 --> 1:30:56.720 because once the movie got greenlit, songs still weren't finalized yet. 1:30:57.120 --> 1:31:00.960 And so, um, when I'm reading the Warner brother logs, 1:31:01.120 --> 1:31:05.240 the Warner Brothers uh studio logs of how songs got 1:31:05.320 --> 1:31:09.120 created and how fast and close to deadline that they were, 1:31:10.360 --> 1:31:14.559 you know, like the beautiful ones really wasn't created until 1:31:14.760 --> 1:31:18.080 like mer or months before they had to shoot this stuff. 1:31:18.160 --> 1:31:20.599 So I think Take Me with You came like during 1:31:21.520 --> 1:31:24.720 Well that's my point and the fact that, I mean 1:31:26.479 --> 1:31:29.240 it's easy to take for granted that his his talents 1:31:29.280 --> 1:31:34.400 were endless and metaphoric metaphorically speaking, he was just shooting 1:31:34.840 --> 1:31:38.840 three pointers all day. The film people worried about that, 1:31:39.000 --> 1:31:42.240 but we didn't because we, I mean we by then 1:31:42.520 --> 1:31:44.640 I knew what everybody else in they camp do that 1:31:44.760 --> 1:31:46.680 this was the guy who would go downstairs and in 1:31:46.840 --> 1:31:50.160 six hours great a new song. And at that point 1:31:50.160 --> 1:31:55.040 in his career, the songs it was creating were consistently good. Um, 1:31:55.600 --> 1:31:58.800 I think it didn't take long one shooting began to 1:31:58.920 --> 1:32:01.519 realize a that nobody in this cast was going to 1:32:01.640 --> 1:32:06.840 threaten Meryl Streep or George C. Scott. What were those preparations, like, 1:32:07.280 --> 1:32:11.400 did you witness like these? Balied? YEA. When when I 1:32:11.600 --> 1:32:15.679 first got to Minneapolis, as Farnoli said, you're an off 1:32:15.840 --> 1:32:18.559 road road because I said, what's the gig? You're an 1:32:18.680 --> 1:32:23.679 off road road manager with three bands. Why wouldn't Farnoli 1:32:23.800 --> 1:32:27.720 come into do the because he lived in l a 1:32:27.880 --> 1:32:34.639 And and he didn't want to leave. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 1:32:34.680 --> 1:32:36.600 I mean that this is this was kind of the 1:32:36.640 --> 1:32:42.080 gopher stuff. It's like we had an acting coach who 1:32:42.160 --> 1:32:45.200 had come come been hired from California to come in 1:32:45.280 --> 1:32:47.639 and work individually with the people who had the most 1:32:47.760 --> 1:32:53.040 speaking roles. We had a dance class down downtown that 1:32:53.240 --> 1:32:58.160 was just basically just basic dance and entered as much 1:32:58.200 --> 1:33:01.120 a workout as anything else. But so it's just to 1:33:01.240 --> 1:33:05.840 keep them in shape, not exactly exactly making them lazy 1:33:05.880 --> 1:33:11.280 and like no, but I just just figured yeah, um, 1:33:11.479 --> 1:33:15.920 and and then there was the rehearsals, and and you 1:33:16.080 --> 1:33:19.719 had Vanity six, you had the time, and you had 1:33:20.000 --> 1:33:22.519 the Revolution, and they were all rehearsing. So it was 1:33:22.600 --> 1:33:26.200 my job to stagger their schedules to make sure everybody 1:33:26.280 --> 1:33:29.680 knew where to go and win. The dance classes were 1:33:29.760 --> 1:33:32.880 like three times a week downtown at the Minnesota Dance Theater, 1:33:33.160 --> 1:33:35.400 three times a week downtown. Yeah, then it would be 1:33:35.560 --> 1:33:38.920 like in late morning so that we could have the day, 1:33:39.600 --> 1:33:43.120 you know, the day for rehearsing, and um, everybody would 1:33:43.120 --> 1:33:45.000 go to that together. So that would be all the 1:33:45.080 --> 1:33:48.360 groups together and anybody else who was the nineteen people? 1:33:48.439 --> 1:33:50.680 Is your job to wrinkled nineteen people? Yeah, pretty much, 1:33:50.760 --> 1:33:54.240 Morris included, and yeah, absolutely absolutely, And then Gwen and 1:33:54.320 --> 1:33:56.280 I would go and Gwen would get in tights and 1:33:56.360 --> 1:33:58.639 work out with Susan Mooncy and it would just all 1:33:58.720 --> 1:34:02.320 hang out the silly and Jerome with clown and drive 1:34:02.400 --> 1:34:05.800 the dance teacher crazy, give us hysterical. We should have 1:34:05.840 --> 1:34:08.600 had footage of that that. The dance theater stuff was 1:34:08.640 --> 1:34:14.599 all right. Prince included sometimes not always, but sometimes, I'd 1:34:14.600 --> 1:34:16.960 say half the time he was there. So, I mean, 1:34:16.960 --> 1:34:18.439 it was it easy at all for you to make 1:34:18.479 --> 1:34:20.840 this move or was it? Like? No, it was pretty 1:34:20.880 --> 1:34:24.680 traumatic actually, because it was like leaving a girlfriend and 1:34:24.800 --> 1:34:27.479 leaving New York, neither of which I wanted to leave 1:34:28.640 --> 1:34:30.879 um to live in a town I had no designs 1:34:30.920 --> 1:34:35.880 of staying in and and but but it was like 1:34:36.320 --> 1:34:38.320 it was like, this is the offer you can't refuse, 1:34:38.439 --> 1:34:40.640 and and and I was I really played hard to 1:34:40.720 --> 1:34:43.479 get with Farnoli when he called me, because it was like, 1:34:43.600 --> 1:34:46.559 you know, because he could tell I ain't feeling Minneapolis, man, 1:34:46.680 --> 1:34:48.639 I mean, how long am I to be there? Well? 1:34:48.760 --> 1:34:52.960 Maybe forever? It was like, no, well, you were lucky 1:34:53.040 --> 1:34:56.879 enough to pull Gwynn into the circle. Yeah, I can't imagine. 1:34:56.920 --> 1:35:01.479 That was like, okay, well I tried that once, like 1:35:01.800 --> 1:35:04.240 out of the end he broke up at the end 1:35:04.320 --> 1:35:10.519 of that. It ended. But wait, that's what you just said, Alan, 1:35:10.560 --> 1:35:12.080 you said that was a part of deal. Like it's 1:35:12.080 --> 1:35:14.760 either both of us or it was part of the 1:35:14.840 --> 1:35:17.720 deal at a certain point. Because after I was here 1:35:17.760 --> 1:35:19.759 for a while and I realized this was a keeper, 1:35:19.920 --> 1:35:23.600 meaning the gig, I was really concerned about our relationship 1:35:23.640 --> 1:35:26.360 because the relationship had just gotten to the point where 1:35:26.439 --> 1:35:30.640 this is like getting serious. And um, but you know, 1:35:30.800 --> 1:35:32.720 she had a good job in New York. She was 1:35:33.080 --> 1:35:36.679 public relations directed for the Hayden Planetarium at the Museum 1:35:36.760 --> 1:35:39.720 and Natural History had been there for several years. All 1:35:39.800 --> 1:35:41.519 her friends were in New York. She had never lived 1:35:41.560 --> 1:35:44.360 anywhere else except when she went away to school, and 1:35:44.479 --> 1:35:47.040 so the idea of her movie just didn't even seem 1:35:47.240 --> 1:35:52.240 worth having a conversation about. Never occurred to me. But 1:35:52.560 --> 1:35:55.760 something happened at the planetarium. They had a change in management, 1:35:56.080 --> 1:35:58.719 and the new regime was was not to her liking. 1:35:58.880 --> 1:36:02.280 So she was starting to obblund So Fate just said 1:36:02.360 --> 1:36:04.320 that if she was ever going to consider a move, 1:36:04.479 --> 1:36:09.400 this was the time. And um my thing was that 1:36:10.560 --> 1:36:13.360 eventually we would tour, which is what I lived for. 1:36:13.960 --> 1:36:15.840 If I had want to be in the movie making business, 1:36:15.880 --> 1:36:18.080 I wouldn't moved to La and got in that business. 1:36:18.600 --> 1:36:20.559 This was just something we were doing until we got 1:36:20.600 --> 1:36:23.080 to the next tour. That that's what got me excited, 1:36:23.280 --> 1:36:26.000 was hitting the road and making music. Making a movie 1:36:26.160 --> 1:36:30.639 was tedious to me. It was just bored. You didn't 1:36:30.680 --> 1:36:33.439 know whether or not it was gonna work or not. No, 1:36:33.840 --> 1:36:36.400 but but I knew whither without the success of the movie. 1:36:36.520 --> 1:36:38.479 One day, he's going to tour again. He's got a band, 1:36:38.560 --> 1:36:40.560 he makes new music, and he's popular. We're going to 1:36:40.640 --> 1:36:41.920 go out and the root and do what we do 1:36:43.160 --> 1:36:45.759 and at that point, I don't want to be away 1:36:45.800 --> 1:36:47.920 from home for six months. So the thing with Gwen 1:36:48.200 --> 1:36:51.160 was like once she came to she she came to visit, 1:36:52.600 --> 1:36:57.080 and then the job situation for her turned intowards something 1:36:57.160 --> 1:37:00.320 that became unpleasant because the management change and was like, 1:37:00.439 --> 1:37:02.760 you know what, and I missed you too, maybe this 1:37:02.880 --> 1:37:06.360 is what I'm supposed to do, so lo and behold. 1:37:06.520 --> 1:37:09.400 She was willing to move. So at that point I 1:37:09.600 --> 1:37:11.640 was like, okay, if we're going to tour, she's going 1:37:11.680 --> 1:37:14.200 to become my assistant. And it it kind of morphed 1:37:14.320 --> 1:37:18.280 organically because there was no Paisley Park, there was no office, 1:37:19.200 --> 1:37:22.639 and so kind of by default my apartment living room 1:37:22.720 --> 1:37:25.360 became the office. That's where guys would come to pick 1:37:25.439 --> 1:37:29.240 up their perdems and you know, when the packages would 1:37:29.280 --> 1:37:31.479 come that I'd have to take the Prince of rehearsal. 1:37:32.160 --> 1:37:37.920 So it was kind of the headquarters for Pierre and 1:37:38.040 --> 1:37:41.439 Productions until we finally had an office a year later. 1:37:42.479 --> 1:37:46.760 Um So, needless to say, Prince Scott used to calling me, 1:37:46.880 --> 1:37:49.400 He got used to Gwen answering the phone, and very 1:37:49.520 --> 1:37:56.120 gradually he started asking her to do stuff for him. Heah, 1:37:56.680 --> 1:37:58.200 so he was like, and I don't know if he 1:37:58.320 --> 1:38:00.800 was testing her what, but he was, you know, did 1:38:01.000 --> 1:38:03.680 did a package come for me? Well? I think so, 1:38:03.920 --> 1:38:06.599 but Alan's at the store. Well I need the package. 1:38:06.640 --> 1:38:08.720 Can you bring it out to the house, you know, 1:38:09.720 --> 1:38:13.080 you know, or or at at one in the morning, 1:38:13.200 --> 1:38:16.200 it was like, you know, I'm in St. Paul and 1:38:16.240 --> 1:38:18.559 I ran out of gas because somebody brings me some gas. 1:38:23.320 --> 1:38:27.240 He would do that a lot. Really yeah, I got 1:38:27.360 --> 1:38:30.599 it probably half a dozen times that he would call 1:38:30.680 --> 1:38:32.320 the house and say, we're not a gas and we 1:38:32.479 --> 1:38:35.240 have to go get gas, or we call somebody who 1:38:35.400 --> 1:38:39.000 was already out, either his brother Dwayne, or we find somebody. 1:38:39.160 --> 1:38:41.920 It wasn't like it had to be me, but you know, 1:38:42.200 --> 1:38:45.120 somebody got to bring me some without cell phones. I 1:38:45.200 --> 1:38:52.679 can't even imagine exactly that's that's crazy. Yeah, it was crazy, 1:38:52.840 --> 1:38:55.320 but but he he got used to Gwen doing stuff, 1:38:55.360 --> 1:38:59.719 so it just became like okay. And then then fans 1:38:59.760 --> 1:39:03.840 had discovered his house, the Purple House, and whenever he 1:39:03.960 --> 1:39:05.479 and I would go to New York or go to 1:39:05.720 --> 1:39:08.120 l A for meetings or business or just to get 1:39:08.160 --> 1:39:11.040 away for a few days, he was getting nervous about 1:39:11.120 --> 1:39:13.840 leaving the house empty. So there were a few times 1:39:13.920 --> 1:39:16.280 he asked Gwen the house sit for him when we'd 1:39:16.280 --> 1:39:18.200 be out of town and so and so so was 1:39:18.240 --> 1:39:19.840 it a gate at the house or yeah, there was 1:39:19.880 --> 1:39:22.439 an electronic gate and so on. In fact, once there 1:39:22.479 --> 1:39:24.720 were some fans out there and she accidentally opened the 1:39:24.760 --> 1:39:27.240 gate and at art attack because they came in. But 1:39:27.400 --> 1:39:30.960 that's a Gwen story. But but long and short of 1:39:31.040 --> 1:39:33.080 it is she just became part of the family. I 1:39:33.160 --> 1:39:37.200 mean it was you know, she became very friendly with 1:39:37.320 --> 1:39:40.719 Susan Muncie, particularly because Moosey didn't drink the kool age. 1:39:40.760 --> 1:39:45.799 She was more like a very grounded person, which appealed 1:39:45.840 --> 1:39:48.040 to Gwen because she was totally baffled by the whole 1:39:48.120 --> 1:39:52.680 rock and roll thing. She was She was from the planetarium, 1:39:52.760 --> 1:39:57.120 from the museum world, where every postage stamp counted, and 1:39:57.560 --> 1:39:59.880 you know, now it's like rock and roll, it's like 1:40:00.080 --> 1:40:02.960 case send something counter to counter, which was before fed 1:40:03.240 --> 1:40:07.560 x um. And she just couldn't get with the the 1:40:07.800 --> 1:40:11.360 sentiment entitlement and the with the waste and in the 1:40:11.560 --> 1:40:15.400 excess of our lifestyle. So it was it was a 1:40:15.520 --> 1:40:19.000 little bumpy for us. But you know, she adapted pretty 1:40:19.080 --> 1:40:24.160 quick and and and he accepted her. Well, I'm just 1:40:24.280 --> 1:40:28.080 amazed that. Can you describe the I guess the work 1:40:28.160 --> 1:40:32.960 ethic is what I'm really trying to grasp because I've 1:40:33.080 --> 1:40:37.640 never seen anyone who is up at the crack or 1:40:37.800 --> 1:40:41.200 I mean, what time did rehearsals normally start? Mm hm, 1:40:42.880 --> 1:40:45.599 as a were like like three ish to three o'clock 1:40:45.640 --> 1:40:50.400 in the afternoon. Really yeah, okay, So when did they end? 1:40:50.439 --> 1:40:54.599 Though totally varied, depended whether it was just a rehearsal 1:40:54.680 --> 1:40:58.439 rehearsal or if it was something specific, and the closer 1:40:58.520 --> 1:41:01.600 you get to that specific gig or tour, then the 1:41:01.680 --> 1:41:04.200 rehearsals might go to midnight, one or two in the morning. 1:41:04.720 --> 1:41:08.559 But the average day because I mean, he'd rehearse all 1:41:08.840 --> 1:41:12.639 everybody's on a retainer, so he would rehearse constantly, even 1:41:12.720 --> 1:41:16.000 if there wasn't a tour around the corner, and those 1:41:16.080 --> 1:41:18.320 rehearsals might be I mean, if he went the studio 1:41:18.320 --> 1:41:20.960 and recorded a new song, he'd want to rehearse it 1:41:21.040 --> 1:41:22.800 with the band, so they'd learned it even before the 1:41:22.840 --> 1:41:25.200 record ever came out, without even knowing whether the song 1:41:25.280 --> 1:41:30.600 would make an album. So we were always rehearsing, and 1:41:30.960 --> 1:41:34.120 those just for lack of better way of putting in. 1:41:34.200 --> 1:41:38.240 Those kind of everyday rehearsals without a serious purpose would 1:41:38.520 --> 1:41:41.240 maybe three o'clock till eight o'clock a day or something 1:41:41.320 --> 1:41:45.640 like that, five or six hours. Not as intense as no, 1:41:46.040 --> 1:41:48.759 but then if it's if it's a tour three weeks away, 1:41:49.280 --> 1:41:55.040 then they get really really focused and longer. But the 1:41:55.160 --> 1:41:57.600 thing was the rehearsal might last three or four or 1:41:57.640 --> 1:42:02.160 five hours, but then he'd want the jam on night. Oh, 1:42:02.400 --> 1:42:05.600 after the rehearsal, after rehearsal, once he done whatever he 1:42:05.680 --> 1:42:08.760 wanted to rehearse, then it was like, okay, didn't he 1:42:09.000 --> 1:42:11.479 like all of his studden started playing body heat and 1:42:11.880 --> 1:42:16.320 vamp on it for like an hour. Were they generally 1:42:16.720 --> 1:42:21.120 enjoying it or was it like one of them was like, yo, man, 1:42:21.160 --> 1:42:24.960 I made plans to Yeah, there were those times, but 1:42:25.080 --> 1:42:28.040 they knew better than to make plans. You just didn't 1:42:28.080 --> 1:42:30.080 dare make plans. But I'm certain someone gave you like 1:42:30.200 --> 1:42:35.160 the eyes like yeah, of course it's my kid's birthday, 1:42:35.320 --> 1:42:39.680 Like that's sort of but none of that matters. It's 1:42:39.680 --> 1:42:42.320 all about him indulging. Is That's what retainers are for 1:42:44.160 --> 1:42:48.559 you're seven. In fact, let's play first Avenue to night 1:42:48.600 --> 1:42:50.840 at midnight, get out of bed and comes down town. 1:42:52.200 --> 1:42:59.120 What was the most eleventh hour request you've ever had 1:42:59.200 --> 1:43:04.800 to make? Happened in your history of this organization? The 1:43:05.200 --> 1:43:12.559 video for Alphabets Alphabet Street. Really that was a oh god, 1:43:12.920 --> 1:43:15.960 this might not happen or no. It was a phone 1:43:16.000 --> 1:43:20.080 call on a Sunday morning in a snowstorm. But I 1:43:20.120 --> 1:43:23.280 mean it's Minneapolis, so that's no. But it's still a 1:43:23.360 --> 1:43:28.959 Sunday morning. And he it was no advance notice whatsoever. 1:43:29.400 --> 1:43:32.639 Was literally like ten ten eleven o'clock Sunday morning phone rings. 1:43:32.880 --> 1:43:38.519 I want to see the video, okay, when now? Wait? 1:43:38.560 --> 1:43:41.240 Time out? Was there even like in a hello, hello, 1:43:41.360 --> 1:43:44.240 is Alan there? No? Very seldom just hello, I want 1:43:44.280 --> 1:43:46.360 to shoot the video? He'd just go right into He'd 1:43:46.400 --> 1:43:48.599 never say alone. I just said. It used to drive 1:43:48.720 --> 1:43:51.360 quitting crazy because he'd never say hello to her, and 1:43:51.720 --> 1:43:56.640 like would she would dance the phone Allen there? Not 1:43:56.960 --> 1:44:04.240 is Allen? Just two words Allan there? And like yeah, 1:44:04.479 --> 1:44:07.320 and she did what you would probably do, high prince, 1:44:07.400 --> 1:44:12.599 how are you just hey? Prince? How you hello? Wait? 1:44:12.640 --> 1:44:16.960 Were you're allowed to call even I can't imagine him. 1:44:17.360 --> 1:44:22.280 I can't imagine calling him Prince. That was his name. Yeah, 1:44:22.400 --> 1:44:24.639 what else was coma play? I'm gonna call him Clay. 1:44:24.800 --> 1:44:33.120 This is long before alright, you know? Uh so Alan, Uh? 1:44:34.680 --> 1:44:37.960 I guess can you tell us at the time when 1:44:38.000 --> 1:44:41.960 you're taking this uh tour on the road, like, at 1:44:42.000 --> 1:44:46.400 what point does this become like Beatlemania? As soon as 1:44:46.479 --> 1:44:49.600 we got to Detroit the first shop? What is it 1:44:49.680 --> 1:44:52.600 about Detroit? Like he was it? The fact that electrifying 1:44:52.680 --> 1:44:55.400 mojo just yeah, I think I had the city on 1:44:55.520 --> 1:44:57.880 fire for him more than anything that wasn't around. But 1:44:57.960 --> 1:44:59.679 I think it was one of the first cities where 1:44:59.720 --> 1:45:03.800 he blew up. And for whatever reason, it just works. 1:45:05.200 --> 1:45:08.519 Billy Sparks from Billy Sparks is from Detroit. But but 1:45:08.720 --> 1:45:13.800 when you really think back, Detroit, Motown, decide Detroit. When 1:45:13.800 --> 1:45:17.519 you think of p funk Um and the fact that 1:45:18.360 --> 1:45:23.160 the early Funkadelic came out of Detroit, there was always 1:45:23.280 --> 1:45:28.599 kind of a unique merger of of funk and rock 1:45:29.680 --> 1:45:34.640 there that wasn't necessarily elsewhere, And maybe that speaks to it. 1:45:34.720 --> 1:45:38.120 I'm just guessing here. I always wanted to know how 1:45:38.240 --> 1:45:41.320 did Billy Sparks get his position in Purple Rain, like 1:45:41.520 --> 1:45:44.720 was he just always Billy Sparks is a promoter by 1:45:44.880 --> 1:45:49.599 trade and an actual Actually he worked with Quentin Perry 1:45:49.640 --> 1:45:53.360 and Jeff Sharpoo where our tour promoters, and had been 1:45:53.640 --> 1:45:56.800 with Prince since the controversy tour so It's before my time, 1:45:58.040 --> 1:46:02.000 and continued to be the tour per voters and um 1:46:03.320 --> 1:46:06.439 Billy's Billy's gig was that he did to all their 1:46:06.560 --> 1:46:08.920 radio and he was like their publicist. He was their 1:46:09.000 --> 1:46:11.960 promo guy who would go to all the radio stations 1:46:12.040 --> 1:46:15.960 and hype the shows. But I mean, obviously there's something 1:46:17.280 --> 1:46:20.720 personal about Billy that Prince took a liking to him. 1:46:21.040 --> 1:46:23.680 I mean he had he was. Billy's a character. He's 1:46:23.680 --> 1:46:28.960 got a really outgoing personality and a real flavor to 1:46:29.120 --> 1:46:34.040 him and had a good sense of humor. But enough 1:46:34.120 --> 1:46:36.200 to say I'm gonna put you in my movie and 1:46:37.560 --> 1:46:39.040 do you have any I mean, this is the guy. 1:46:39.080 --> 1:46:40.800 But you just thought that was natural, Like, oh yeah, 1:46:40.840 --> 1:46:43.120 well dude, he put me in the movie. Why wouldn't 1:46:43.120 --> 1:46:48.400 he put put everybody in the movie. Yeah. By the way, Alan, 1:46:48.920 --> 1:46:52.680 for those who do all the point is about me, 1:46:52.760 --> 1:46:55.840 It's about he put everybody in the movie. It was like, 1:46:57.000 --> 1:46:59.280 you know, that was his that was his thing. Where 1:47:00.320 --> 1:47:03.280 the world everybody's going to be part of this his dream. 1:47:03.360 --> 1:47:06.440 Once we would all live in a gated community Janasson 1:47:07.080 --> 1:47:12.759 and and you know kids will have a nursery center 1:47:12.840 --> 1:47:15.720 inside Paisley so we never have to mix with it 1:47:15.840 --> 1:47:18.639 was real, Howard. You know, it's more like Dr York 1:47:18.960 --> 1:47:27.000 York Bill. No, I'm just no, no, no, that's a 1:47:27.080 --> 1:47:31.960 whole yeah with its own soundtrack. Yeah, all right, So 1:47:32.040 --> 1:47:34.240 you're just saying it was very natural for Billy Sparks 1:47:34.320 --> 1:47:37.280 to just Yeah. It was like it's part of the gang. 1:47:37.400 --> 1:47:42.240 That's the Purple Crew gang. At at the at the 1:47:42.400 --> 1:47:47.120 at the height of that tour, Um, I mean did 1:47:47.200 --> 1:47:49.920 you think that it was over? Was? I mean what 1:47:50.160 --> 1:47:54.960 kept you on because he stopped touring for two years, 1:47:55.040 --> 1:47:58.479 but yet you were still there correct? Yeah, Um, you 1:47:58.560 --> 1:48:02.600 were just there on standby and case. No, because by 1:48:02.680 --> 1:48:05.400 that point, whatever he did that was part of it, 1:48:05.600 --> 1:48:08.120 even if it was just two for the hang, that 1:48:08.280 --> 1:48:10.840 was just part of whenever he traveled and go with him, 1:48:11.560 --> 1:48:14.920 and it was it was I mean, there was a valet, 1:48:15.000 --> 1:48:16.519 there was a chef, and there was me and I 1:48:16.680 --> 1:48:18.800 was like the road manager. And even if it wasn't 1:48:18.800 --> 1:48:22.200 a tour, I was still managing his moves in in 1:48:22.320 --> 1:48:26.800 and ounce of hotels and clubs and whatever. Okay, So 1:48:26.920 --> 1:48:28.639 it was just, you know, there was just that point 1:48:28.680 --> 1:48:31.120 in time where whenever he moved down, moved with him. 1:48:32.360 --> 1:48:36.760 So and and understand something to all this time from 1:48:36.800 --> 1:48:39.920 the day I got to Minnesota. What it really really 1:48:40.240 --> 1:48:45.360 was was, as much as anything was, I was like 1:48:45.640 --> 1:48:51.240 the liason between Prince and the management. Because his management Kavala, Ruffalo, 1:48:51.240 --> 1:48:54.200 and FARNOLDI were based in l A. They did not 1:48:54.360 --> 1:48:57.680 want to move to help to Minneapolis. If they had, 1:48:57.720 --> 1:48:59.840 I wouldn't never had a gig. So you were the 1:49:00.000 --> 1:49:04.519 silent member of of of that firm. You decided to 1:49:04.600 --> 1:49:09.880 live in Minnesota. I see, I see. Um. So at 1:49:09.960 --> 1:49:12.000 what point are you just told that you're the president 1:49:12.160 --> 1:49:16.519 of Paisley Park or no. It's just it's like, Kate, 1:49:16.600 --> 1:49:19.720 we got the money, we're gonna build the building, you know. 1:49:20.320 --> 1:49:24.720 And um Now, Okay, as as a principan that I 1:49:24.920 --> 1:49:28.719 was his guy, I mean I was the guy on site. 1:49:29.120 --> 1:49:33.160 I mean there was Farnoli who I answered to, and 1:49:33.439 --> 1:49:37.400 Cavallo and Ruffalo to a degree. But um, but in 1:49:37.560 --> 1:49:39.720 terms of on site mean, now, there were a lot 1:49:39.760 --> 1:49:41.360 of other guys by the nd by the time we 1:49:41.479 --> 1:49:45.560 built Paisley that it was a pretty big crew of 1:49:45.720 --> 1:49:50.280 technicians and engineers, and um we hired a student that 1:49:50.479 --> 1:49:53.960 the the guy who actually ran Paisley, the facility, the 1:49:54.080 --> 1:49:58.080 studio manage, the building manager was a guy named Harry 1:49:58.120 --> 1:50:03.200 Grossman who had Maurice White's complex in West Hollywood. We 1:50:03.320 --> 1:50:07.439 hired him away as as a as a music observer, 1:50:07.760 --> 1:50:15.240 always noticed that whenever someone chooses to upgrade, that also 1:50:15.360 --> 1:50:21.840 marks the beginning of the moment, like kind of the 1:50:21.920 --> 1:50:24.000 beginning of the not the beginning of the end. But 1:50:24.120 --> 1:50:29.040 it's like Barry Gordy taking Motown out of Detroit and 1:50:29.120 --> 1:50:35.200 going to l a uh wu tang uh leaving the 1:50:36.080 --> 1:50:41.880 versus Basement two a more posh Hollywood studio. I mean, 1:50:41.960 --> 1:50:44.800 there's other examples of you know, cleaner studios and that 1:50:44.880 --> 1:50:48.680 sort of stuff, and then it lose it's it's it's 1:50:49.280 --> 1:50:53.080 did you feel I mean not saying that you could 1:50:53.120 --> 1:50:56.360 answer from I wouldn't call you a Prince fan, but 1:50:56.479 --> 1:50:58.240 I would at least think that you miired some of 1:50:58.360 --> 1:51:04.360 his music time, did you necessarily feel like this might 1:51:04.400 --> 1:51:06.640 be a jink situation where like, and you know, all 1:51:06.680 --> 1:51:08.600 this magic is coming out of the warehouse in this 1:51:08.720 --> 1:51:14.479 particular studio, not a jink situation. UM, I think, would 1:51:15.240 --> 1:51:18.160 I know where you're going with this? But I look 1:51:18.240 --> 1:51:21.200 at it a little differently, but maybe with the same result. 1:51:22.280 --> 1:51:24.720 My brother always accuses me, He says, you holp you 1:51:24.800 --> 1:51:28.519 what was like every artist's early work the best? And 1:51:28.640 --> 1:51:32.919 I do tend to um And I think it's because 1:51:33.640 --> 1:51:36.439 there's a there's a sense of adventure when an artist 1:51:36.600 --> 1:51:42.519 is developing. When an artist is growing and learning, is 1:51:42.600 --> 1:51:47.240 he or she goes along and discovering new things to 1:51:47.360 --> 1:51:49.519 their skill set that they didn't even know they had 1:51:49.680 --> 1:51:53.759 necessarily And you're gonna get that in their early work. 1:51:54.640 --> 1:52:00.240 Now that doesn't mean it's their best work, but just 1:52:00.560 --> 1:52:03.160 the way my DNA is, that's what appeals to me 1:52:03.320 --> 1:52:07.880 the most. And the more you're established, the more you've 1:52:07.960 --> 1:52:13.960 defined yourself, then it's starting to get to the point 1:52:14.000 --> 1:52:18.120 where you can become derivative or or or or just 1:52:19.680 --> 1:52:26.160 repetitive because you pretty much have done what you have 1:52:26.360 --> 1:52:28.120 to do and now it's just about how can I 1:52:28.400 --> 1:52:31.360 do this differently, but you've kind of learned what you're 1:52:31.360 --> 1:52:33.519 gonna learn. There's just a point where you get a 1:52:33.600 --> 1:52:37.800 ceiling as as as an artist, and you, I don't 1:52:37.800 --> 1:52:43.519 want to say, run out of ideas, but you know 1:52:43.680 --> 1:52:47.439 you you're gonna you're gonna do another adort. It's just 1:52:47.520 --> 1:52:49.479 gonna have a different name it. It might be even 1:52:49.560 --> 1:52:55.240 as good. But I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Have 1:52:55.400 --> 1:52:57.439 you heard this song? I have not heard She's all that? 1:52:57.680 --> 1:53:01.000 Have you heard this? She's all that? Alan? That's not fair. 1:53:02.520 --> 1:53:06.720 Wait a minute, have you heard it? Of course of 1:53:06.840 --> 1:53:09.040 course he's heard it. Okay, that was during it was 1:53:09.120 --> 1:53:11.479 during your reign. Are you allowed to say what you 1:53:11.760 --> 1:53:15.120 thought of it? Or you should probably tell who it 1:53:15.240 --> 1:53:19.240 is first? Okay? Well, I don't know that. No, we can't. 1:53:20.880 --> 1:53:22.560 Even if even if we could, I don't think I 1:53:22.600 --> 1:53:25.240 don't think we would. Is it that? Well? There was 1:53:25.280 --> 1:53:33.439 a point where okay, so when Karmen electra, Okay, we 1:53:33.520 --> 1:53:37.559 can start right there? All right, quest les Supreme where 1:53:38.000 --> 1:53:44.120 leads ladies and gentlemen? No? Um, yeah, so he uh electorate? 1:53:44.200 --> 1:53:46.519 First off, you should probably tell the significance of the 1:53:46.600 --> 1:53:48.960 song the door. Will you tell me? Well, it's like 1:53:49.200 --> 1:53:54.599 the fan favorite Prince song, Like, what's your favorite Prince ballot? See, 1:53:54.720 --> 1:53:58.280 that's the thing that's it's a door. It's a door. 1:53:59.040 --> 1:54:02.200 It's a door, trust me. But what's your favorite? Forget 1:54:02.280 --> 1:54:05.439 what anybody else thinks. What's the most popular, what's the best, 1:54:05.760 --> 1:54:13.880 what's your favorite's close? Win with dance and glo slow. 1:54:14.320 --> 1:54:16.479 Here's the thing. I'm gonna, I'm gonna. I'm gonna be 1:54:16.760 --> 1:54:23.160 real honest with you. I technically have been very much 1:54:23.520 --> 1:54:27.040 indifferent to print slow songs. No, no, no, you gotta 1:54:27.080 --> 1:54:30.040 pick don't do that. No no, no, no no, Like 1:54:30.960 --> 1:54:35.000 I don't know, I skipped these ships. I you move 1:54:35.080 --> 1:54:37.160 for beautiful ones. It moves you. When I got it 1:54:37.240 --> 1:54:39.040 you on then I'm like, all right, I'll put some 1:54:39.120 --> 1:54:41.520 print things on it. But I don't like, like, look, 1:54:41.680 --> 1:54:46.480 I acknowledge, I acknowledge that do Me Baby is probably 1:54:47.480 --> 1:54:52.920 his best. See that's mine vocal performance. Yeah, but it's like, really, 1:54:53.360 --> 1:54:56.600 hearing a ten minute song of Prince having sex is 1:54:57.000 --> 1:55:02.520 not my go to thing. So I think that's generational. 1:55:02.680 --> 1:55:05.800 I think that's that's your generation of of No. No, 1:55:05.960 --> 1:55:10.480 I'm who feel uncomfortable and racing a ballot unless you 1:55:10.560 --> 1:55:16.800 got a woman under your arm. Yeah, it's okay to 1:55:16.960 --> 1:55:21.040 like a ballot. No, no, I'm saying, I just never 1:55:21.160 --> 1:55:23.400 like slow songs. I just had a flashback to the 1:55:23.480 --> 1:55:32.440 endography bird. She's sorry with the ballot, all right, you 1:55:32.480 --> 1:55:34.640 get it passed. But my point was there there was 1:55:34.720 --> 1:55:38.200 a point in his career where we've heard his ballots. 1:55:38.880 --> 1:55:41.840 They just sounded like, Okay, this is the new version 1:55:42.160 --> 1:55:45.920 of doom me baby, and it's like scandal. This might 1:55:45.960 --> 1:55:49.200 be a dynamite ballot if I never heard the other ones, right, 1:55:50.640 --> 1:55:54.800 But if I heard Scandal his first, that's the joint. 1:55:55.000 --> 1:55:57.160 I like condition of the heart. But I don't consider 1:55:57.200 --> 1:56:01.000 that a ballot. The narrative, the point being, there's a 1:56:01.080 --> 1:56:04.960 point where you've defined yourself as an artist and and 1:56:05.400 --> 1:56:08.480 you can't help but be repetitive because it's what you do. Now. 1:56:09.080 --> 1:56:12.880 You've kind of stopped learning and growing. And yeah, you 1:56:13.000 --> 1:56:14.800 may you may find a new way to mix it, 1:56:14.920 --> 1:56:18.320 or you may tinker with the instrumentation and approach it. 1:56:18.520 --> 1:56:20.800 You know, it's you know, different ways to do things, 1:56:21.080 --> 1:56:25.560 but you're basically still doing the same thing you've already done. Wait, 1:56:26.200 --> 1:56:28.440 that's what I knew was eventually going to happen, but 1:56:28.520 --> 1:56:30.360 it would have happened with it with out Paisley part 1:56:30.360 --> 1:56:32.760 because it happens to every artist. Well to explain to 1:56:32.800 --> 1:56:36.760 our listeners, uh sort of u taboo blasphemous thing that 1:56:36.840 --> 1:56:40.560 Prince did in terms of karma, the lecture and and 1:56:40.760 --> 1:56:44.400 some sort of Ted Turner colorization. Way was he took 1:56:45.160 --> 1:56:49.880 his much loved the door ballot and gave it to 1:56:50.240 --> 1:56:58.440 Carmen to wrap over a song called I'm All That. Yeah, 1:56:58.960 --> 1:57:02.480 it was Badea, so suffice it to say God burst 1:57:02.560 --> 1:57:05.600 his soul. He was a little confused with the advent 1:57:05.680 --> 1:57:11.480 of hip hop and hip hop's um crossover into mainstream 1:57:11.560 --> 1:57:16.800 acceptance just at best bewildered him. Were you around for 1:57:17.040 --> 1:57:21.960 his hammer observations? Because I think more than Run DMC 1:57:22.080 --> 1:57:27.040 and Public Enemy, I feel like Diamonds and Pearls was 1:57:27.120 --> 1:57:35.240 derivative of the Hammer reaction. Thunder was definitely definitely that 1:57:35.600 --> 1:57:38.400 I got. I can't think of its of a particular song, 1:57:38.800 --> 1:57:42.520 but there's a conversation that we had alone in studio 1:57:42.760 --> 1:57:46.280 A and I don't recall how we've gotten on the subject, 1:57:47.400 --> 1:57:50.160 but I'll never forget what he said. He held up 1:57:50.200 --> 1:57:56.520 a copy of Billboards Hot one m and Hammer and 1:57:56.640 --> 1:57:59.200 Vanilla Ice both had hits at the time, huge hits, 1:58:00.000 --> 1:58:02.240 a dark period. And he pointed to the chart and 1:58:02.360 --> 1:58:04.400 he said, do you know what it feels like to 1:58:04.520 --> 1:58:08.800 spend your whole life learning a craft and look at 1:58:08.840 --> 1:58:13.000 this and see Hammer and Vanilla Ice, who cannot sing 1:58:13.880 --> 1:58:16.960 and cannot play an instrument, and I can't get in 1:58:17.000 --> 1:58:26.600 the top twenty. Yeah. Wow, he didn't get it. And 1:58:26.720 --> 1:58:30.040 I would say, okay, fuck Hammer, fun funk the Ice, 1:58:30.160 --> 1:58:34.000 What up with public enemy? Well that's a good politics, 1:58:34.120 --> 1:58:36.360 but it ain't it ain't. They can't singer, They can't 1:58:36.400 --> 1:58:40.520 singer play. You know, I don't think he really respected 1:58:40.600 --> 1:58:44.840 the art of sampling in mixing, but he wasn't mad 1:58:44.920 --> 1:58:48.040 at those pray checks either. Well of course, well no, 1:58:48.160 --> 1:58:55.200 of course, but it's certainly influenced. As you said, you know, 1:58:55.280 --> 1:58:57.240 there was a point where you can't beat him join them, 1:58:57.640 --> 1:58:59.800 because there was a point where he looked up and 1:59:00.120 --> 1:59:01.880 lives that. You know, this is a guy who threw 1:59:01.920 --> 1:59:06.280 out the bulk of the eighties. Was the he was 1:59:06.360 --> 1:59:08.840 the leader. He was the guy who was building the new, 1:59:09.320 --> 1:59:12.760 the new. He was setting the new trends. You know, 1:59:12.920 --> 1:59:15.960 he was at the forefront that he he was cutting edge. 1:59:16.040 --> 1:59:18.960 Everything he was doing was what everybody was fighting. Now 1:59:19.080 --> 1:59:22.080 all of a sudden, it's not his day anymore. There's 1:59:22.120 --> 1:59:25.720 new kids on the block, bad bad pun But um, 1:59:26.160 --> 1:59:29.480 you know, all of a sudden, it's something else, and 1:59:30.520 --> 1:59:34.760 it's something he doesn't do and something that he doesn't 1:59:34.840 --> 1:59:37.200 I mean, look, I know the brother grew up in 1:59:37.280 --> 1:59:43.240 North Minneapolis, and you know what the Minneapolis is to Minneapolis, 1:59:43.320 --> 1:59:46.200 it's the hood. But it ain't like growing up in 1:59:46.280 --> 1:59:49.560 the Bronx in the seventies. When we moved to Minneapolis 1:59:49.640 --> 1:59:51.280 and sort of hood, the first thing we thought was 1:59:51.320 --> 1:59:56.520 like damn projects, Like how did it end? Everything is relative? Okay, 1:59:57.080 --> 2:00:01.280 dude did not understand hip hop culture. Okay, he may 2:00:01.360 --> 2:00:03.480 or may not have liked to give ni record, but 2:00:03.680 --> 2:00:08.800 the culture didn't relate to him. Blackness aside. It wasn't 2:00:08.840 --> 2:00:11.880 where he came from. He grew up in Mini funking Apolis. 2:00:12.400 --> 2:00:14.600 You know what I wish, You know what I wish though, 2:00:16.960 --> 2:00:20.920 I wish someone was there to actually just explained to 2:00:21.040 --> 2:00:25.360 him he was actually hip hop and didn't even know it. 2:00:26.200 --> 2:00:29.520 Like he That's the funny. The funniest thing was that 2:00:29.760 --> 2:00:32.760 he didn't even know he was showing the blueprint, because 2:00:33.320 --> 2:00:36.959 in my mind, all he did was provide the blueprint, 2:00:37.000 --> 2:00:41.839 because everything he did from his work on drum machines, 2:00:42.200 --> 2:00:46.800 that to me it was hip hop. Yeah, I'm not 2:00:46.880 --> 2:00:49.040 even talking about the times where he just rapped a song, 2:00:49.200 --> 2:00:53.160 like even when no, no, I know, but even then 2:00:53.200 --> 2:00:55.120 I didn't think like, oh, Prince can rap. I was 2:00:55.240 --> 2:01:00.080 just like Prince sometimes just spoke shit and but but 2:01:00.280 --> 2:01:03.320 I've meant his attitude. But those are his cask offs 2:01:03.360 --> 2:01:05.400 and his head those are just the silly little songs 2:01:05.440 --> 2:01:07.920 that we have fun with. Their not the serious work. Right. 2:01:08.200 --> 2:01:12.680 But even then, like everything he did from his u 2:01:14.480 --> 2:01:18.040 the stories that he would concoct in early interviews, to 2:01:19.360 --> 2:01:27.200 his exploitation of are fair scared exotic women, I mean, 2:01:27.240 --> 2:01:29.800 that's that's that's your definition of hip hop, which is 2:01:29.920 --> 2:01:33.520 very broad. But his as much an arro who work 2:01:33.720 --> 2:01:36.240 hip hop, to him, moment meant two things. You didn't 2:01:36.280 --> 2:01:38.920 play and you didn't sing, but you still made records. 2:01:39.760 --> 2:01:44.000 But to me, he was more when he wasn't trying 2:01:44.040 --> 2:01:48.280 to rap. So yeah, I agree, I agree, And I 2:01:48.320 --> 2:01:50.720 mean that the proof of the pudding is that when 2:01:50.800 --> 2:01:53.320 he you know, when when he suddenly realized that not 2:01:53.560 --> 2:01:56.400 maybe not suddenly, he gradually realized that that he was 2:01:56.520 --> 2:01:59.160 no longer at the cutting edge of things and had 2:01:59.240 --> 2:02:02.240 to reckond saw that. Then all of a sudden, he's 2:02:02.360 --> 2:02:05.600 he's singing into a microphone shaped like a gun, and 2:02:05.800 --> 2:02:09.040 he's got somebody spitting rhymes in his band. And the 2:02:09.120 --> 2:02:11.960 guys who were trying to get him into hip hop 2:02:12.520 --> 2:02:16.440 we're actually the wrong guys because they weren't prime examples 2:02:16.480 --> 2:02:20.200 of that culture and were people who rapped for a 2:02:20.280 --> 2:02:24.440 living or tried to. But it wasn't Chuck, but we're 2:02:24.560 --> 2:02:26.720 him and Michael Jackson going through it seemed like at 2:02:26.760 --> 2:02:30.000 the time, and I said, I felt like Michael Jackson 2:02:30.040 --> 2:02:31.240 and him were going through that at the same time. 2:02:31.280 --> 2:02:33.000 At some point. They both must have felt that that 2:02:33.080 --> 2:02:40.200 way because they both were artists. But I think he 2:02:40.240 --> 2:02:42.800 adapted way better In prisoned, Michael Jackson worked with like 2:02:42.920 --> 2:02:46.000 actual rappers and we got the Golden the album from 2:02:49.920 --> 2:02:52.520 But I think I think the important thing is Michael 2:02:52.600 --> 2:02:56.160 never tried to be somebody he wasn't And when prince 2:02:56.280 --> 2:02:59.360 of singing into a mic shaped black a gun and 2:02:59.480 --> 2:03:03.520 having a rapper in the band who isn't good that's 2:03:03.760 --> 2:03:08.280 trying to be something you're not. Was there? And this 2:03:08.400 --> 2:03:10.000 is only like a few short years after the song 2:03:10.120 --> 2:03:13.800 dead on It where he basically calls out rappers. So 2:03:14.720 --> 2:03:19.560 was there a general feeling of relief when the Batman 2:03:19.680 --> 2:03:22.520 soundtrack sold like seven eight million units? Or was it 2:03:22.640 --> 2:03:25.680 just like was it like, okay, the lights are still on? 2:03:26.120 --> 2:03:29.800 Or was it well, I don't, I mean nobody was 2:03:29.960 --> 2:03:36.200 nobody was feeling doom? Um? Well okay, well, okay, I 2:03:36.280 --> 2:03:38.760 mean don't don't justus understand. Mean, Diamonds and Pearls was 2:03:38.840 --> 2:03:41.120 a huge selling record. I know that. So did he feel. 2:03:41.200 --> 2:03:43.840 Vince Kid and you know, Love Sexy was a flop 2:03:43.920 --> 2:03:46.080 by his standards, but there's a lot of artists would 2:03:46.080 --> 2:03:48.200 have loved to have those sales. I mean, every everything 2:03:48.360 --> 2:03:50.600 is relative. It wasn't like he was, you know, he 2:03:50.840 --> 2:03:53.920 just was no longer at the forefront of things because 2:03:54.000 --> 2:03:56.880 the world had caught up and people were listening to 2:03:56.960 --> 2:03:59.920 different things. They got used to him. There's a point 2:04:00.000 --> 2:04:02.000 were no matter how good you are, people get used 2:04:02.040 --> 2:04:04.840 to your only knew once. I would like to ask 2:04:04.920 --> 2:04:06.920 you about your take, or at least what you can 2:04:07.000 --> 2:04:12.520 indulge on the Japan run which for many Prince fans 2:04:12.600 --> 2:04:17.840 know that was like the the last hurrah of the revolution. Um, 2:04:20.160 --> 2:04:24.680 how not? How easy was it too? This is eighty 2:04:24.760 --> 2:04:28.040 six I believe there's eighty six. Um, So I guess 2:04:28.040 --> 2:04:33.040 the legend is that once one d and uh Bobby 2:04:33.120 --> 2:04:38.320 saw Prince smashes cloud guitars twice. Actually, um, when you 2:04:38.360 --> 2:04:41.680 watch have you seen the clip? So there's he's doing 2:04:41.720 --> 2:04:43.840 the preboine solo and then he just looks and then 2:04:43.920 --> 2:04:46.520 he just takes the cloud guitar and stamps to the 2:04:46.600 --> 2:04:49.000 ground marches off stage. But what's so funny is that 2:04:50.120 --> 2:04:53.600 the staff is so efficient. I know he wanted to 2:04:53.640 --> 2:04:55.720 be like the one and done, like this is done, 2:04:55.760 --> 2:04:59.640 I'm walking off stage. But then the guitar tech had 2:04:59.680 --> 2:05:03.640 another weren't ready for him, so I was like, man, 2:05:03.800 --> 2:05:07.160 you you were the momentum. Now gonna go back. So 2:05:07.200 --> 2:05:09.360 then he came out, didn't know this older and then 2:05:09.400 --> 2:05:11.720 he smashed that one too, and this time really marched 2:05:11.760 --> 2:05:14.960 off stage. And you know, Wendy was like, oh god, 2:05:15.160 --> 2:05:19.400 I knew that was the beginning of the end. I mean, 2:05:19.520 --> 2:05:25.240 you've been there for a lot of I guess awkward 2:05:25.640 --> 2:05:30.560 silent car rides home. Um, did you think, did you 2:05:30.640 --> 2:05:32.800 know if you had a future after that, you know, 2:05:32.960 --> 2:05:34.880 after that moment where you figured he was going to 2:05:35.000 --> 2:05:39.040 disband the group or I didn't take it as seriously 2:05:39.160 --> 2:05:42.040 as they did. Um Oh, so even if he didn't 2:05:42.040 --> 2:05:43.800 have a future, you just be like on to the 2:05:43.840 --> 2:05:46.000 next And well, I thought I had a future because 2:05:46.040 --> 2:05:49.520 I figured somebody's gonna play with him. Okay, you know 2:05:49.760 --> 2:05:53.360 I wasn't there. The band didn't hire me, he did, Okay, 2:05:53.680 --> 2:05:57.600 So so that didn't I didn't for a minute think 2:05:57.640 --> 2:06:02.160 that that would affect me. Um. I had a different 2:06:02.440 --> 2:06:05.400 idea about the thing, because there was by that time, 2:06:05.480 --> 2:06:07.400 there was a lot of tension in the band for 2:06:07.520 --> 2:06:13.040 whatever reason. And I've been around the you know, everybody 2:06:13.120 --> 2:06:15.760 in that band. This was their first real taste of 2:06:15.840 --> 2:06:21.640 anything major. They'd all come from bar bands and all 2:06:21.720 --> 2:06:25.400 they knew was this, And it was almost a disservice 2:06:25.520 --> 2:06:28.360 to their careers to blow up to the proportion that 2:06:28.520 --> 2:06:31.160 they did, because it's deceptive. It's like the real world 2:06:31.200 --> 2:06:35.880 doesn't like Purple Rain, but that's their reference point. Wow. 2:06:36.800 --> 2:06:39.320 And I had been through so many artists and so 2:06:39.400 --> 2:06:42.200 many bands have been through James Brown, going from Macio 2:06:42.320 --> 2:06:45.480 to Bootsey and you know, all of those kinds of transitions. 2:06:46.600 --> 2:06:49.200 And I was fully aware of the fact that there's 2:06:49.240 --> 2:06:51.640 only one name on the marquee that sells the tickets, 2:06:52.080 --> 2:06:53.920 and that as long as the new band is good, 2:06:54.000 --> 2:06:57.880 Prince is gonna be eight. Now people are gonna sendimentally 2:06:58.000 --> 2:07:00.480 miss the old band and due to the stay for 2:07:00.640 --> 2:07:05.160 good reason. Yeah, but I never for a minute thought 2:07:05.200 --> 2:07:09.440 it wasn't gonna be I. Um, but isn't the whole 2:07:09.480 --> 2:07:13.560 starting over again? And no, because because his music was growing. 2:07:14.680 --> 2:07:17.120 And now the irony is that went near at Leasta 2:07:17.240 --> 2:07:19.880 had so much to do with opening him up to 2:07:20.080 --> 2:07:23.400 new music, but so did Eric and so did Sheila, 2:07:24.320 --> 2:07:27.640 all right in their own ways had brought him to 2:07:27.800 --> 2:07:31.040 things that he hadn't heard before. And the point here 2:07:31.160 --> 2:07:34.160 is not who did it, but that his palette had 2:07:34.400 --> 2:07:39.440 had grown so tremendously that five pieces wasn't going to 2:07:39.600 --> 2:07:44.080 handle it. I E. Here comes Eric and he says, 2:07:44.160 --> 2:07:49.360 get a trumpet player, so we can do parts umlution 2:07:49.440 --> 2:07:53.400 movement and now it becomes the counter revolution um. But 2:07:53.600 --> 2:07:58.440 the real point being that that he just his what 2:07:58.680 --> 2:08:01.760 he heard was so much bigger than what Purple Rain 2:08:02.040 --> 2:08:07.200 was in terms of just from a musical standpoint, and 2:08:08.280 --> 2:08:13.720 I think he saw those five pieces as a limitation wow. 2:08:14.560 --> 2:08:16.240 And it has nothing to do with the quality of 2:08:16.360 --> 2:08:20.600 musicianship or the personalities or anything. Um. It was just 2:08:20.760 --> 2:08:24.120 time for a change and he wanted some new blood, 2:08:24.240 --> 2:08:27.280 and he wanted a bigger group and an opportunity to 2:08:27.440 --> 2:08:32.280 explore different kinds of music. And I think to something 2:08:32.360 --> 2:08:34.440 else I picked up from James Brand was that when 2:08:34.480 --> 2:08:37.520 you bring new people into the band, it reinvigorates you. 2:08:38.760 --> 2:08:41.760 Because when you feel you've gone as far as you 2:08:41.880 --> 2:08:45.080 can with the people around you, the only way to 2:08:45.200 --> 2:08:47.800 keep from being derivative is to freshen up the people 2:08:47.880 --> 2:08:51.360 around you, and James did that all the time, particularly 2:08:51.640 --> 2:08:54.760 with drummers. He may not change his whole band, but 2:08:54.960 --> 2:08:57.320 he went through drummers like crazy, and every one of 2:08:57.400 --> 2:09:02.240 them had a very identifiably different style out Jabbo Claude, 2:09:03.280 --> 2:09:06.640 I see you're right. So you were president of Paisley 2:09:06.680 --> 2:09:09.520 Park two win, Well it was technically I was vice 2:09:09.600 --> 2:09:13.400 president the Paisley Park Records. I was president. He was 2:09:15.000 --> 2:09:18.440 um obvious, I forgot that one. I took over the 2:09:18.560 --> 2:09:22.880 label in January of eight nine. So was it a 2:09:23.000 --> 2:09:26.640 real label like warners respected you guys, and they wanted 2:09:26.720 --> 2:09:30.720 to h and up until I took it over. Really, 2:09:30.800 --> 2:09:33.160 there was no Paisley Park Records. It was an imprint. 2:09:33.240 --> 2:09:36.760 I mean, it existed on paper, but nobody ran it. 2:09:37.360 --> 2:09:41.160 You know, Cavala Ruffalo and Farnoli we're supposedly running it. 2:09:41.240 --> 2:09:43.560 But I mean, if you wanted to call Paisley Park Records, 2:09:43.600 --> 2:09:46.400 there was no number to call. You would call Cavala 2:09:46.480 --> 2:09:50.120 Ruffalo Management and maybe they'd have time to talk about it. 2:09:50.440 --> 2:09:53.240 But it wasn't there focus because they ran am management 2:09:53.280 --> 2:09:55.920 company with a lot of clients. So it's just a 2:09:56.000 --> 2:09:59.440 vanity label in their eyes to him, and I think 2:09:59.520 --> 2:10:02.400 they usually really wanted it to turn into something new 2:10:02.440 --> 2:10:06.000 way Maverick did, in the sense that one of these 2:10:06.080 --> 2:10:08.240 artists will catch on. Yeah, because he was a guy 2:10:08.320 --> 2:10:12.320 who had been able to produce Manic Monday the time, 2:10:12.560 --> 2:10:14.720 Vanity six. This was a guy who could write and 2:10:14.840 --> 2:10:18.160 produce good records with people, and they expected he would 2:10:18.200 --> 2:10:20.840 do that in the house. When did you realize, like, 2:10:21.440 --> 2:10:25.880 maybe perhaps you should make your exit then what or 2:10:26.680 --> 2:10:30.200 it ended up being ninety two? May have ninety two, Um, 2:10:32.400 --> 2:10:34.040 you're just this just one day you wake up and 2:10:34.120 --> 2:10:36.880 realize you've been in the same place too long and 2:10:37.000 --> 2:10:40.720 you're just not Minnesota. Though, like you know, when i'd 2:10:40.720 --> 2:10:44.000 say place, I'm talking about a career position. UM, I 2:10:44.040 --> 2:10:52.200 don't mean geographically. UM. Was it quasi amicable? I mean 2:10:52.200 --> 2:10:55.880 at least that, Yeah, I mean actually hired me back 2:10:55.960 --> 2:10:58.000 for a couple of one off projects. I came back 2:10:58.080 --> 2:11:01.800 a year later to put together a Japanese to reform UM. 2:11:02.440 --> 2:11:05.360 I didn't do the tour, but I assembled the crew 2:11:05.560 --> 2:11:07.960 and dealt with the promoter and worked on all the 2:11:08.080 --> 2:11:13.080 contracts and the writers and so on. UM. And then 2:11:13.120 --> 2:11:14.840 I came back to do the liner notes for the 2:11:14.920 --> 2:11:19.960 Hits project. So we we spoke. I mean, we were cool. 2:11:20.200 --> 2:11:23.920 It was just that he had the Paisley Park label. 2:11:24.120 --> 2:11:29.680 Was wasn't no win. It was a joint venture with Warners, 2:11:29.800 --> 2:11:34.600 meaning there was owned fifty fifty and funded by Warners. UM. 2:11:35.280 --> 2:11:38.000 But his contract was up and he wanted He was 2:11:38.120 --> 2:11:41.800 in the midst of renegotiating his own contract. And there 2:11:41.840 --> 2:11:44.160 were a lot of things about those negotiations that I 2:11:44.360 --> 2:11:48.000 wasn't keen on. We we just didn't see eye and 2:11:48.280 --> 2:11:52.320 certain things from a business standpoint. It wasn't you know, 2:11:52.960 --> 2:11:58.600 as much as anything else. But Um, he he was 2:11:58.720 --> 2:12:02.280 convinced that the failure at Paisley Park, and I've never 2:12:02.360 --> 2:12:05.000 met an artist who would say anything different was because 2:12:05.080 --> 2:12:11.000 Warners didn't prioritize the product. And I knew for a 2:12:11.120 --> 2:12:13.760 fact because as as as the head of the label, 2:12:13.800 --> 2:12:16.040 I was spending better part of a week to ten 2:12:16.160 --> 2:12:18.840 days out of each month working out of Warners in 2:12:18.920 --> 2:12:22.400 Burbank and very close with Mo Austin, Lenny Warnick or 2:12:22.400 --> 2:12:25.120 Bitney Medina, the whole gang, and I knew what they 2:12:25.200 --> 2:12:27.880 were willing to do if we had the product they wanted, 2:12:28.800 --> 2:12:33.160 and it just wasn't there. They expected him to make 2:12:33.440 --> 2:12:37.960 cutting edge records, or at least contemporary radio worthy records, 2:12:39.440 --> 2:12:41.840 and not that all the records were bad. We made 2:12:41.880 --> 2:12:44.440 some good records, made a couple of great jazz albums 2:12:44.480 --> 2:12:47.800 with my brother Um, one of which actually did very 2:12:47.840 --> 2:12:49.880 well on the jazz charts Things Lift and Said was 2:12:49.960 --> 2:12:52.560 the top ten jazz album that year. But jazz albums 2:12:52.680 --> 2:12:58.680 were selling units at best. Um we had George Clinton 2:12:58.760 --> 2:13:01.800 record that was one of the least interesting George Clinton records. 2:13:01.920 --> 2:13:04.800 It was old stuff that he had recorded for another label. 2:13:04.880 --> 2:13:07.120 The deal had fallen apart and Prince did it as 2:13:07.160 --> 2:13:12.720 a favor. Um, and the idea of signing George was 2:13:12.840 --> 2:13:16.480 that they would work together. Never happened. I mean, Prince 2:13:16.560 --> 2:13:20.240 gave a couple of tracks, but none of the none 2:13:20.240 --> 2:13:22.400 of that was one song and that was the worst 2:13:22.440 --> 2:13:26.560 song in the album. No, it was the Big Pump 2:13:28.440 --> 2:13:32.880 with a Big Pump. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah that Um. 2:13:33.040 --> 2:13:35.920 And then he signed Mavis Staples and that that was 2:13:36.000 --> 2:13:39.240 a good, solid old school soul record. But it wasn't 2:13:39.280 --> 2:13:42.360 time for her to come back yet. Thankfully she has. 2:13:42.560 --> 2:13:45.400 She had a lot of successfu lately thrilled for that 2:13:45.680 --> 2:13:50.840 much deserved. The Mayvid Staples records were good records, but 2:13:50.960 --> 2:13:53.040 there were no hits. There was nothing at all that 2:13:53.200 --> 2:13:56.920 was contemporary radio worthy, not when hip hop was blowing up, 2:13:57.000 --> 2:13:59.760 and you know that's what those were the records were doing. 2:13:59.800 --> 2:14:02.640 And Warnest was just like, come on, guys, we love 2:14:02.760 --> 2:14:04.760 Mavis and George, but there's a reason they don't have 2:14:04.920 --> 2:14:11.520 deals cold they're not selling records. Wow, now I'm depressed. 2:14:19.040 --> 2:14:23.040 I always brag about you have, uh, you have this 2:14:23.320 --> 2:14:27.920 artifact in your house, um, on this cassette. You have 2:14:28.120 --> 2:14:31.520 what what my opinion is some of the greatest recorded 2:14:31.600 --> 2:14:38.120 moments in answer machine history. Uh, of which these these 2:14:38.200 --> 2:14:42.560 notable music gods are leaving you messages, But but you 2:14:42.640 --> 2:14:45.480 still get an inkling of an idea of what the 2:14:46.080 --> 2:14:49.320 time was like, Like, I guess with James Brown's message, 2:14:50.240 --> 2:14:52.840 it's because he left a few messages. I get the 2:14:52.840 --> 2:14:54.440 feeling that was like one of the first times that 2:14:54.520 --> 2:15:00.040 James Brown was dealing with a modern answering machine. I 2:15:00.200 --> 2:15:02.400 was one of them, you know, like the news guy 2:15:02.520 --> 2:15:04.720 doesn't know he's on the air yet, like yeah, wait, 2:15:04.840 --> 2:15:09.880 wait now, oh hey, guys, this is from Channel six news, 2:15:10.160 --> 2:15:12.880 Like that's how James Brown's messages And then like next 2:15:12.960 --> 2:15:17.920 comes uh uh, I guess Prince left you a message about, 2:15:18.040 --> 2:15:22.320 you know, uh, leaving a piano for my father to 2:15:22.400 --> 2:15:25.920 play in this But it sounded like that grasshopper kunk 2:15:25.960 --> 2:15:29.920 Fu voice. Yes, I don't I don't know if he 2:15:30.040 --> 2:15:34.640 mentioned seventeen days or he I think he mentioned one 2:15:34.680 --> 2:15:38.200 of his singles that was kind of I don't know, 2:15:38.480 --> 2:15:41.720 I've only heard it once. And then then George Clinton 2:15:41.880 --> 2:15:45.560 calls and talks about, you know, I might sign the 2:15:45.640 --> 2:15:49.000 Paisley Parker that sort of thing, and then like it's 2:15:49.000 --> 2:15:53.200 just it goes through throughout history and you get to 2:15:53.240 --> 2:15:56.879 see the scope of you know, of of what Alan's 2:15:56.920 --> 2:16:00.560 life is like when the angel calls like that happened 2:16:00.680 --> 2:16:07.680 was and there's one that's missing that I never somehow 2:16:07.760 --> 2:16:13.720 I erased, never transferred what that was? Miles and it 2:16:13.960 --> 2:16:22.280 was tell that little purple motherfucker that called me. Well, yeah, 2:16:22.320 --> 2:16:24.120 I have to say I had it for about a month. 2:16:24.200 --> 2:16:30.200 I saved it. One day was gone. Well I know that. 2:16:31.040 --> 2:16:33.120 I mean, even though you made a life and soul, 2:16:33.360 --> 2:16:37.400 I know for a fact that you are a jazz fanatic. 2:16:37.680 --> 2:16:41.920 I mean, if anything, I think that you would have 2:16:42.000 --> 2:16:44.680 loved to how come you never pursued I know that 2:16:44.800 --> 2:16:50.360 your love for Weather Report kind of surpasses, at least 2:16:50.560 --> 2:16:53.760 in my eyes, any any music that you've worked with, 2:16:53.959 --> 2:16:56.560 Like I know that your fandom for for that particular unit. 2:16:56.640 --> 2:16:59.200 How come you never I don't know about surpasses, but 2:16:59.800 --> 2:17:04.280 I know you love some other big time tim So 2:17:04.400 --> 2:17:09.080 how come you never? And probably the number one is 2:17:09.160 --> 2:17:13.360 any Parmier Wow? Mm So at no point did you 2:17:13.440 --> 2:17:18.520 think like I want to manage these guys and um, 2:17:19.400 --> 2:17:24.480 it just wasn't my world and they didn't. But I 2:17:24.560 --> 2:17:26.200 figured if you can conquer that they don't have well 2:17:26.280 --> 2:17:35.160 paid tour There you go, gigs weren't there, okay, so 2:17:35.280 --> 2:17:38.040 when you made your exit, didn't I mean, do you 2:17:38.120 --> 2:17:40.120 ever fear? I mean, I guess the life of a 2:17:40.160 --> 2:17:45.080 tour managers like you're only as stable monetarily at least 2:17:45.360 --> 2:17:49.560 as the act that year with until you get to 2:17:49.680 --> 2:17:54.280 your next I feel like it's almost like a trappiez thing, 2:17:54.360 --> 2:17:58.680 like you might catch you might catch the you know, 2:17:59.000 --> 2:18:01.920 the the bar of the Chapeese line, or you can 2:18:02.000 --> 2:18:04.560 just fall into the pit. I mean, there were there 2:18:04.600 --> 2:18:08.840 were phases in my career where for just simple economic 2:18:08.920 --> 2:18:13.240 reasons I was concerned about what's next and fearing the 2:18:13.320 --> 2:18:14.840 fact that you might have to take a gig it 2:18:14.879 --> 2:18:17.360 didn't like, or worse yet, just go through a year 2:18:17.400 --> 2:18:21.120 without kicks because sometimes the phone didn't ring. But you know, 2:18:21.200 --> 2:18:23.879 it was very blessed because that it was ten solid 2:18:24.000 --> 2:18:27.760 years with Prince would a paycheck every week, so that's 2:18:27.840 --> 2:18:32.000 not a typical tour manager situation. It was five five 2:18:32.080 --> 2:18:35.280 and a half solid used with James Brown except for 2:18:35.360 --> 2:18:37.120 the three weeks I got fired because I was sick. 2:18:38.879 --> 2:18:42.320 Otherwise would a paycheck every week, so that was not 2:18:42.440 --> 2:18:46.080 a typical tour managers thing. Now the rest of the time, 2:18:46.160 --> 2:18:48.600 it's been kind of freelance, except once I got back 2:18:48.680 --> 2:18:51.320 with the Angelo, now is his co manager. Of course, 2:18:51.400 --> 2:18:54.720 that's an entirely different relationship, and it's you know, it's 2:18:54.720 --> 2:18:58.120 about management contracts and so on, which is a whole 2:18:58.240 --> 2:19:04.320 different um kind of the compensation situation. But you know, 2:19:04.400 --> 2:19:07.600 there were times, but I've just been really really blessed 2:19:07.680 --> 2:19:11.879 because it's it's it's like like the Prince thing. I mean, 2:19:12.080 --> 2:19:15.520 I had become a huge Just just to make a 2:19:15.600 --> 2:19:18.920 long story short, I didn't get into Prince until Controversy 2:19:19.720 --> 2:19:24.080 and um um before I met my wife Gwen and 2:19:24.440 --> 2:19:26.520 was dating a girl in Pittsburgh who worked at a 2:19:26.640 --> 2:19:29.000 radio station and said, I got front road tickets to 2:19:29.080 --> 2:19:32.680 the Controversy show Prince and come on, let's go because 2:19:32.760 --> 2:19:34.480 she worked for the station and they were promoting it 2:19:34.560 --> 2:19:37.920 so on and so literally front row center. And I'm like, 2:19:38.080 --> 2:19:40.080 I don't want to see this, like the record, but 2:19:40.280 --> 2:19:42.720 you know, I want to see some little guy in bikinis. 2:19:42.760 --> 2:19:47.560 What what I'm going to miniature Chippendale's. You know, It's 2:19:47.640 --> 2:19:51.879 like I had absolutely no interest, but you know, new 2:19:51.920 --> 2:19:55.280 girlfriends so I went and I walked out of there like, yo, 2:19:55.400 --> 2:19:58.480 I gotta work for this guy someday. And it wasn't 2:19:58.520 --> 2:20:00.320 just the music, it was the whole pack. It's the 2:20:00.400 --> 2:20:04.160 lighting was dope, the p a was dope. Everything about 2:20:04.280 --> 2:20:08.360 his thing was was like what's like gold standard? And 2:20:08.440 --> 2:20:10.960 I'm like, you could see this is this is the 2:20:11.040 --> 2:20:17.480 real deal and obviously an amazing performer. Um, And I 2:20:17.560 --> 2:20:19.920 didn't know a soul with that outfit. And I was 2:20:20.080 --> 2:20:22.080 out of the business that A year later, I'm working 2:20:22.160 --> 2:20:25.920 for Kiss and Lo and behold, the production manager says, hey, 2:20:25.959 --> 2:20:29.959 you want to go to Prince Okay? You know um, 2:20:31.680 --> 2:20:36.360 and kind of D'Angelo happened. I mean, I met Chris 2:20:36.520 --> 2:20:39.360 Rock because he came to a print show. He came 2:20:39.440 --> 2:20:42.080 to Love Sexy. This was even before sn L and 2:20:42.200 --> 2:20:44.360 he was when Nelson George brought into the show and 2:20:44.440 --> 2:20:46.400 we hung out after and it was like that kind 2:20:46.440 --> 2:20:48.480 of like hey man, one day, I'm gonna be big 2:20:48.520 --> 2:20:50.160 and I want you to run my shows. Like if 2:20:50.200 --> 2:20:52.080 you run this, I want you to run my shows. 2:20:52.360 --> 2:20:55.680 That's how literally, and it's like yeah, it was was 2:20:55.840 --> 2:20:58.760 Chris Rock next after your Prince? No no, no no, 2:20:58.879 --> 2:21:01.880 But I'm saying that's how I'm and and you know, 2:21:02.040 --> 2:21:04.040 we kind of stayed in touch, rand into each other 2:21:04.160 --> 2:21:06.680 once or twice a year. He'd come to Mineapolis pay 2:21:06.760 --> 2:21:09.480 Comedy Club and call me, and once he blew up. 2:21:09.600 --> 2:21:12.520 And it's now it's been five Chris Rock tours UM 2:21:13.800 --> 2:21:18.160 and the Maxwell thing happened. Somebody of a friend of 2:21:18.200 --> 2:21:20.400 mine who worked for Sony gave me the first CD 2:21:21.560 --> 2:21:24.600 UM the Urban Hank Sweet before it came out, said 2:21:24.680 --> 2:21:26.480 this is a kid from New York. You think it's 2:21:26.560 --> 2:21:28.400 right up your alley. You're probably gonnat like this. Just 2:21:28.480 --> 2:21:31.320 gave it to me, and I'm like, oh ship, this 2:21:31.480 --> 2:21:34.320 is kind of dope. I'm driving around the lake one 2:21:34.400 --> 2:21:36.840 day playing it in the car and Gwen says, what's that. 2:21:37.400 --> 2:21:39.640 I'm like, there's some kid from New York. Maxwell's He's, 2:21:39.720 --> 2:21:42.520 oh my god, I haven't heard anything fresh in years. 2:21:42.920 --> 2:21:45.480 So on it's and my wife has real old r 2:21:45.560 --> 2:21:48.040 and b ears it, so it went for for her. 2:21:48.080 --> 2:21:50.879 It's from Luther Vandrows to Maxwell. That was the evolution. 2:21:51.640 --> 2:21:53.480 But I'm like, Okay, if she loves it, this is 2:21:53.760 --> 2:21:56.320 this is gonna work. And like three months later, I 2:21:56.360 --> 2:21:58.720 get a call from an agent who says, I got 2:21:58.800 --> 2:22:01.600 a new kid who's going now and he's kind of difficult. 2:22:01.680 --> 2:22:03.560 So I thought of you. And I don't know if 2:22:03.640 --> 2:22:06.200 that was a compliment or not, but you know, it's 2:22:06.240 --> 2:22:08.440 the rep I guy after Prince and James Brown and 2:22:08.480 --> 2:22:11.240 so on. And it turned out to be Maxwell. And 2:22:11.360 --> 2:22:13.560 that's the record I've been in love with for three months. 2:22:14.280 --> 2:22:17.680 So I do several Maxwell tours. Brown Sugar comes out. 2:22:17.879 --> 2:22:22.400 I fall in love with that. Um, I'm a D'Angelo fan. 2:22:22.959 --> 2:22:25.320 I saw him once or twice on shows that I 2:22:25.480 --> 2:22:29.959 was with other artists, didn't know him, never met him. Um. 2:22:30.640 --> 2:22:32.840 It wasn't an impressed with the show I saw because 2:22:32.840 --> 2:22:34.440 he was a guy in the Trench coast sitting at 2:22:34.440 --> 2:22:36.680 a piano. He didn't really work the stage. Yet this 2:22:36.840 --> 2:22:46.480 is Brown Sugar, eras and trench coats and but but 2:22:46.720 --> 2:22:49.320 I finished at Maxwell tour. I don't remember which one 2:22:49.480 --> 2:22:53.120 is the third or fourth Maxwell tour. And I'm in 2:22:53.280 --> 2:22:56.720 New York at a meeting, finishing up the accounting with 2:22:56.840 --> 2:23:00.280 the business manager, planning to fly home in the morning. 2:23:00.320 --> 2:23:01.959 I've been on the road for three or four months, 2:23:02.680 --> 2:23:05.760 and I'm walking across the lob in my hotel and 2:23:05.879 --> 2:23:09.440 my cell phone rings and it's like, Mr Leeds, my 2:23:09.600 --> 2:23:12.600 name is d' angelo and I've heard about you and 2:23:12.680 --> 2:23:14.320 so on and so on and so on. And I 2:23:14.640 --> 2:23:16.840 thought it was Maxwell playing a prank, honest to god. 2:23:17.400 --> 2:23:19.440 So I'm like, yeah, right, Max, to get out of 2:23:19.480 --> 2:23:21.560 here because I just left him at this meeting. We've 2:23:21.600 --> 2:23:25.080 been on the road for three months. He's playing. He's 2:23:25.120 --> 2:23:28.120 playing playing with me. So I'm like, yeah, right, Max, 2:23:28.160 --> 2:23:29.680 you can't. You can't get me now. I'm on the 2:23:29.760 --> 2:23:33.120 phone up and two minutes later it rings again. It's like, seriously, 2:23:33.200 --> 2:23:36.040 this is d' angelo and um, you know, i'd like 2:23:36.120 --> 2:23:37.680 to see if you could fly into New York to 2:23:37.760 --> 2:23:40.120 have a meeting. And you guys were working on in 2:23:40.360 --> 2:23:42.600 the last month or so a voodoo at the time, 2:23:43.480 --> 2:23:46.840 and um, I stayed over and I said, well, I 2:23:46.879 --> 2:23:48.800 happened to be in New York. I canceled my flight, 2:23:48.920 --> 2:23:51.160 went to meet with him, and dumb god bless his soul, 2:23:51.920 --> 2:23:55.400 um the next day. And that was fifteen years ago. 2:23:56.160 --> 2:24:00.880 What was hilarious was that we didn't I think I 2:24:01.000 --> 2:24:02.680 told him the night before that you were going to 2:24:02.760 --> 2:24:04.520 come to like one of the rehearsals. I don't know, 2:24:05.080 --> 2:24:08.880 I don't know what you were. I recall that you 2:24:09.080 --> 2:24:11.840 came to s I R to watch us do something. 2:24:12.360 --> 2:24:13.840 I don't know if it was the very beginning of 2:24:13.879 --> 2:24:16.320 the tour or whatever. We're just starting to rehearse the tour, 2:24:17.080 --> 2:24:21.640 but I remember remember the night before, like d and 2:24:21.680 --> 2:24:24.720 I were like rehearsing our lines, like Okay, we don't 2:24:24.720 --> 2:24:28.400 want to freak him out, so maybe we shouldn't ask 2:24:28.640 --> 2:24:37.920 that many uh Prince Chase questions, so which is like 2:24:38.560 --> 2:24:41.760 We're gonna play real cool when he comes in, like don't, don't, 2:24:42.040 --> 2:24:45.280 let's not geek out. And I think that last at 2:24:45.320 --> 2:24:48.360 all for like five minutes in the So you guys 2:24:48.400 --> 2:24:51.400 were like the anti Prince back then, where no we 2:24:51.520 --> 2:24:54.080 were when one Prince and Alan first started talking and 2:24:54.120 --> 2:24:56.840 he was like tell me some James Brown stories. Yeah, 2:24:56.920 --> 2:25:02.480 we were like tell us some print stories. Um. So yeah, 2:25:02.520 --> 2:25:07.279 I was gonna say, like if I mean what drives 2:25:07.320 --> 2:25:11.360 you now, like what's your what's your passion? What's the 2:25:11.360 --> 2:25:16.040 same thing that always did to music. I'm still a 2:25:16.160 --> 2:25:18.440 kid who's a fan of the music. And that's the 2:25:18.560 --> 2:25:21.360 blessing is that every other tour manahge I know may 2:25:21.400 --> 2:25:24.640 have started out that way and then got jaded because 2:25:24.640 --> 2:25:27.160 they had to take that gig they didn't want, or 2:25:27.320 --> 2:25:29.040 the artists they were in love who turned out to 2:25:29.080 --> 2:25:32.800 be a jerk and um, you know, or they had 2:25:33.200 --> 2:25:36.119 too many months off between tours and couldn't pay the bills, 2:25:36.760 --> 2:25:40.920 and all that passion for this, this life of traveling 2:25:41.040 --> 2:25:44.480 and meeting interesting people and going interesting places and doing 2:25:44.560 --> 2:25:48.000 interesting things comes to a halt. And you know, but 2:25:48.240 --> 2:25:51.200 my first wife once said, you know, what, are you 2:25:51.320 --> 2:25:54.360 gonna come home and get a real job. And I'm like, 2:25:54.600 --> 2:25:57.040 I think it's real money paying the bills, isn't it. 2:25:59.080 --> 2:26:00.720 I don't know what you call a real job. But 2:26:01.360 --> 2:26:03.600 you know, I'm one of the few people on the 2:26:03.720 --> 2:26:06.720 planet that's blessed enough to actually enjoy what I'm doing 2:26:07.760 --> 2:26:12.560 to get and get paid for it. But I love 2:26:12.640 --> 2:26:16.200 the music, and I guess at the end of the day, 2:26:16.280 --> 2:26:18.280 I mean, people ask him at this age, what in 2:26:18.320 --> 2:26:20.520 the world are you doing on the road because Mondy's hurt. 2:26:20.520 --> 2:26:22.039 When I get in a bunk on the tour bus, 2:26:22.240 --> 2:26:25.480 this is not fun anymore. But when the lights go 2:26:25.640 --> 2:26:29.560 down and people scream and the vant guard hits the 2:26:29.640 --> 2:26:33.720 funk out of here, I get paid for this. That's 2:26:33.720 --> 2:26:36.240 all you can say. I guess wait before before we 2:26:36.520 --> 2:26:40.080 we we we wrap up. I just personally want to know, 2:26:41.280 --> 2:26:44.720 I mean out of I mean, you've seen a lot 2:26:44.840 --> 2:26:50.520 of historical things in your years as a manager tour manager. 2:26:50.959 --> 2:26:57.760 You know, do you think you can actually um come 2:26:57.879 --> 2:27:03.480 up with like a top three historical moments like I 2:27:03.720 --> 2:27:07.200 was there when blah blah blah was conceived, or you 2:27:07.280 --> 2:27:13.920 know that time when Prince and Michael Jackson that, you 2:27:14.000 --> 2:27:17.920 know whatever, Like do you have a personal top three 2:27:18.040 --> 2:27:23.760 like reflection? I was actually there when this happened thro 2:27:23.800 --> 2:27:28.040 about sex Machine. So you mentioned the poster with the 2:27:28.120 --> 2:27:31.400 lyrics on it in Nashville, which was the first recording 2:27:31.520 --> 2:27:33.480 session he did with the new bit, and that was 2:27:33.600 --> 2:27:38.520 Boots and his brother Phelps and those guys um which 2:27:38.600 --> 2:27:43.000 kind of reinvented his brand of funk and open things up. 2:27:43.680 --> 2:27:45.960 So did you feel so James Brown was about to 2:27:46.040 --> 2:27:47.920 be played out by that point or something? He was 2:27:48.000 --> 2:27:51.760 played out, the records weren't selling the it had I can't, 2:27:52.040 --> 2:27:55.279 but in nineteen sixty nine, I'm still thinking like Mother Popcorn. 2:27:55.640 --> 2:27:58.120 So you're saying that the younger kids Mother Popcorn was 2:27:58.440 --> 2:28:01.880 Mother Popcorn was a huge hit, but we were living 2:28:01.920 --> 2:28:03.840 in the era of this is still living in the 2:28:03.920 --> 2:28:06.040 era of the single, and you were only as good 2:28:06.080 --> 2:28:10.240 as your last single. And after Mother Popcorn came Fucking Drummer, 2:28:10.320 --> 2:28:12.560 which is legendary, but you couldn't give the record away, 2:28:12.640 --> 2:28:17.560 didn't sell. That's crazy. James Brown's one flop and his 2:28:17.680 --> 2:28:24.240 whole it was between the and let a Man Come In, 2:28:25.720 --> 2:28:29.119 which it's a nice record, but it wasn't a real hit. 2:28:30.200 --> 2:28:32.280 I mean, it did okay, but it wasn't like a 2:28:32.360 --> 2:28:37.720 number one record. Brother Rap that was another one, did okay, 2:28:37.959 --> 2:28:41.640 but it wasn't a number one record. But Sex Machine 2:28:41.800 --> 2:28:44.160 was hot. Sex Machine was like, all of a sudden, 2:28:44.200 --> 2:28:47.360 people are calling, kids are bugging out, the attendance at 2:28:47.360 --> 2:28:50.640 the show's picked up, and the fact that we had 2:28:50.640 --> 2:28:53.920 a new band and had gone through the bad press 2:28:54.000 --> 2:28:57.080 that came when Macy on Him left and Marvel Whitney 2:28:57.120 --> 2:28:59.800 had quit and did an interview this and James So 2:29:00.080 --> 2:29:02.800 the press had been really, really negative, and all of 2:29:02.879 --> 2:29:04.920 a sudden we got this new band with these new 2:29:05.040 --> 2:29:07.720 kids and this fresh hit, and it was like, in 2:29:07.760 --> 2:29:09.520 a period of three or four months we had gone 2:29:09.600 --> 2:29:12.440 downhill and come back up. So that was cool. That 2:29:12.560 --> 2:29:16.920 was that was pretty major. I think Payback because there 2:29:16.959 --> 2:29:20.960 again he was cold. He'd had several records that you know, 2:29:21.080 --> 2:29:26.840 you might consider worthy but weren't huge hits. And Payback 2:29:27.000 --> 2:29:31.720 was a huge hit, and um and didn't sound like 2:29:31.840 --> 2:29:36.280 the other ones. Okay. And then obviously Purple Rain. I 2:29:36.320 --> 2:29:39.640 mean that's that's just the premiere of that, just or 2:29:39.760 --> 2:29:42.560 just you know, the premiere and the idea that the 2:29:43.200 --> 2:29:47.200 reviews and the box office the opening week that like, 2:29:47.360 --> 2:29:50.520 my god, we're really really part of something that's gonna 2:29:50.640 --> 2:29:55.440 be huge. That's amazing. This is this is a story 2:29:55.480 --> 2:29:58.600 about the Proper Rain premiere that you tell a lot 2:29:58.720 --> 2:30:00.920 that I don't think. I don't think all of our 2:30:00.959 --> 2:30:03.680 listeners have heard about you guys being in the limo 2:30:04.280 --> 2:30:08.800 approaching the theater. Can you tell that story. Yeah, we 2:30:09.040 --> 2:30:11.720 we had a procession of limos going to the premiere. 2:30:11.959 --> 2:30:15.680 The premiere was that the Man's Groundlands Chinese Theater in 2:30:16.160 --> 2:30:19.279 Hollywood board and you know, big red carpet affair. MTV 2:30:19.520 --> 2:30:22.120 was out front and everybody else was out front, and 2:30:23.160 --> 2:30:28.080 you know, um, a lot of celebs invited. We typically yeah, 2:30:28.680 --> 2:30:34.400 typical l a rock and roll movie. Premiere, UM, and 2:30:34.680 --> 2:30:37.680 we had a We were staying in Westwood at what 2:30:37.879 --> 2:30:39.879 was then called the Westward bar Key, I think it's 2:30:39.879 --> 2:30:42.680 a w now and UM. We had limos for the 2:30:42.760 --> 2:30:45.279 band Windy and Lisa we're in one. I guess Bobby 2:30:45.360 --> 2:30:47.240 and Fink we're probably at new I don't I forget 2:30:47.280 --> 2:30:49.560 how we were divided up, but we had several limos. 2:30:49.920 --> 2:30:51.440 And I was in the car. Who was just me, 2:30:51.680 --> 2:30:53.800 Prince and Chick. Chick was in the front. I was 2:30:53.840 --> 2:30:56.960 in the Backwood Prince. As we came out of the hotel, 2:30:57.879 --> 2:31:00.840 he grabbed the flower from the garden in front of 2:31:00.879 --> 2:31:03.080 the hotel. There was just a little garden in front 2:31:03.080 --> 2:31:06.240 of the hotel, but along the curb grabbed flowers and 2:31:06.320 --> 2:31:08.600 he was holding them in the car all the way. 2:31:09.680 --> 2:31:12.600 Now this is again before cell phones and high tech stuff, 2:31:12.640 --> 2:31:15.920 so we had walkie talkies, and we had security already 2:31:16.000 --> 2:31:18.440 at the theater that we're going to orchestrate how the 2:31:18.560 --> 2:31:21.800 cars pulled up in what sequence and so on and 2:31:21.879 --> 2:31:25.280 so on. And as we got within about five or 2:31:25.320 --> 2:31:28.520 six blocks of the theater, one of our security guys 2:31:28.720 --> 2:31:34.640 radio Big Chick and to and started telling them how 2:31:34.760 --> 2:31:37.040 crazy the scene was like man, you won't believe there's 2:31:37.080 --> 2:31:39.400 there's thousands of kids in the street. The police are 2:31:39.440 --> 2:31:42.520 going crazy trying to control the crowd. This is just 2:31:42.640 --> 2:31:45.840 the biggest thing I've ever seen. It's madness. So on 2:31:45.959 --> 2:31:48.440 and so on and so on, and and Prince overheard, 2:31:48.520 --> 2:31:50.960 we in the backseat kind of overheard some of it, 2:31:51.959 --> 2:31:54.959 and all of a sudden his voice kind of broke 2:31:56.520 --> 2:32:05.840 and he said, Chick, what did they say? And Chick 2:32:05.959 --> 2:32:12.120 repeated it to him, and I looked at his face 2:32:13.240 --> 2:32:16.000 and it was the deer in the headlights. It was 2:32:16.120 --> 2:32:19.400 like all of this preparation, the whole or deal of 2:32:19.560 --> 2:32:23.320 making the movie, making the album, of doing the preview 2:32:23.400 --> 2:32:25.760 shows that we did at First Avenue and so on, 2:32:25.879 --> 2:32:27.800 all of that had let up to this moment, this 2:32:27.920 --> 2:32:30.760 whole fantasy that know what he believed what happened, but him, 2:32:31.320 --> 2:32:33.400 or at least he claimed he believed it would happen. 2:32:34.520 --> 2:32:38.040 And for a split second, he really lost it, and 2:32:38.120 --> 2:32:41.199 he grabbed my hand and he said, what did he say? 2:32:42.200 --> 2:32:45.240 Say it again? I mean, just just really lost it. 2:32:46.160 --> 2:32:49.720 And it lasted for about his hand was shaken, and 2:32:49.840 --> 2:32:54.600 it lasted for about ten fifteen seconds, and then all 2:32:54.640 --> 2:32:57.760 of a sudden he stiffened up, he got his game 2:32:57.840 --> 2:33:03.320 face back on, and from then on it was typical Prince. 2:33:03.640 --> 2:33:06.039 And I don't think he ever heard so he was human. 2:33:06.280 --> 2:33:09.920 He was human totally for like fifteen seconds. And that 2:33:10.000 --> 2:33:11.320 was the only time you ever did that in front 2:33:11.360 --> 2:33:15.880 of you or in front of me. That's amazing. Did 2:33:15.920 --> 2:33:17.920 you have a human sat next to him at the 2:33:17.959 --> 2:33:24.800 premier graffiti bridge? All right? Just like that was the case? 2:33:25.200 --> 2:33:28.000 What was that? Who where he got up and left 2:33:28.040 --> 2:33:32.400 before the lights came up? It one scene? Or Okay, 2:33:33.560 --> 2:33:36.680 do you love this film? No? I mean, but it 2:33:36.800 --> 2:33:40.000 was the birth of Tevin Campbell, so you know it 2:33:40.200 --> 2:33:43.000 has a special place in my heart. Really, for all 2:33:43.120 --> 2:33:47.320 five minutes he was right, and thank you. See I 2:33:47.480 --> 2:33:51.080 was close. She was pretty whatever she was actually liked 2:33:51.080 --> 2:33:53.840 her album. I don't know what any My wife was 2:33:53.879 --> 2:34:03.440 pretty shet in a movie to shame. Well that I 2:34:03.600 --> 2:34:07.720 know that, you know, doing all this emotional emotion of 2:34:07.720 --> 2:34:12.160 the stuff is you can't stand it. And uh, I 2:34:12.240 --> 2:34:14.480 appreciate the fact that you let us pick your brain. 2:34:14.800 --> 2:34:17.240 If you got a second, let me put one PostScript 2:34:17.400 --> 2:34:21.200 on the last thing we talked about momentous moments. This 2:34:21.360 --> 2:34:24.320 is something I want to share, and and it's embarrassing 2:34:24.360 --> 2:34:25.879 to share it to you. I wish we were talking 2:34:25.959 --> 2:34:28.400 to somebody else because it looks like I'm trying to 2:34:28.480 --> 2:34:32.879 bottle you up. But um. Once we're in a car 2:34:33.040 --> 2:34:35.320 coming from his show and Chris Rock I don't know where, 2:34:35.360 --> 2:34:39.000 he said, Yo, what was the best tour you were 2:34:39.040 --> 2:34:41.160 ever on? And he was like, you know Jame's brand, 2:34:41.200 --> 2:34:44.200 Prince Prison. I'm sure he was fishing for a print store, 2:34:44.200 --> 2:34:46.120 because you know, Chris says, you will know he's a 2:34:46.200 --> 2:34:50.240 print o file like the rest of us. And I 2:34:51.240 --> 2:34:53.480 you would think I'd stop and think about it, but 2:34:53.680 --> 2:34:56.840 before I could even think, it just came out, as 2:34:56.879 --> 2:35:03.120 if I were programmed. Voodoo really just came out. I 2:35:03.160 --> 2:35:06.280 wouldn't even even think to ask that. I didn't think 2:35:06.320 --> 2:35:08.280 about it. I didn't think of it. And once it 2:35:08.400 --> 2:35:12.960 came out, I was like, yeah, he's right, you know, 2:35:14.200 --> 2:35:20.640 and what made that the best? Yeah? Oh, did you 2:35:20.720 --> 2:35:24.280 see it? That's what Chris said, because he was he 2:35:24.440 --> 2:35:27.520 was stunned and and and and the only thing I 2:35:27.600 --> 2:35:29.280 could say to him was did you see it? And 2:35:29.400 --> 2:35:31.280 he said, no, I missed it. When it played Tann 2:35:31.320 --> 2:35:33.000 I was out of town and I missed it, damn it. 2:35:33.360 --> 2:35:36.480 And I said, then I can't tell you the biggest 2:35:36.520 --> 2:35:39.039 disgrace in my whole career is that we didn't professionally 2:35:39.080 --> 2:35:42.880 shoot that show. That there isn't a professional shoot of 2:35:43.000 --> 2:35:47.600 that show. I mean there's bootlegs of the Brazilian shows, 2:35:47.680 --> 2:35:49.520 but you weren't there and we didn't have the set. 2:35:49.959 --> 2:35:54.880 They don't count. Yeah, yeah, I gotta say that. Uh 2:35:55.680 --> 2:35:58.840 you know, I think maybe I downplay it just it's 2:35:58.959 --> 2:36:02.040 just to do. It was the perfect show, the perfect 2:36:02.120 --> 2:36:08.039 material that was not it was Well I hear that too. 2:36:08.959 --> 2:36:13.960 Um yeah, yeah, I guess I could probably say that, 2:36:14.760 --> 2:36:18.760 probably say that probably the most magical times of my 2:36:18.959 --> 2:36:23.440 drumming career came where it's that to where I don't know, 2:36:23.600 --> 2:36:27.880 it's like in our mind, I think that we just 2:36:28.440 --> 2:36:33.680 created the show hoping that one day, like we get 2:36:33.720 --> 2:36:38.160 the pad on the back approval from the Big Brother 2:36:38.200 --> 2:36:44.080 approval thing, and uh, it didn't happen. But we still 2:36:44.520 --> 2:36:48.440 went to that city and I felt like, who are 2:36:48.480 --> 2:36:50.600 you looking to get the pedal the back from? I 2:36:50.640 --> 2:36:54.160 don't think that was the best show though. Really they 2:36:54.200 --> 2:36:59.080 were in Minneapolis Fonte. Oh okay, I get it. So 2:36:59.360 --> 2:37:01.880 you thought that it was just okay, no, you know 2:37:02.000 --> 2:37:06.240 what your brother got on stage, and yeah, he ruined 2:37:06.320 --> 2:37:13.280 Jock's life for about a month. No, Um, maybe okay, 2:37:13.320 --> 2:37:15.480 maybe I was just caught up in the good one. 2:37:15.560 --> 2:37:17.560 But I think that was just the whole prince or 2:37:18.440 --> 2:37:20.640 magic of it all. I mean, because the thing was, 2:37:20.760 --> 2:37:23.280 it could have went either way, and I felt like 2:37:24.560 --> 2:37:28.280 what I didn't I didn't want to. We could have 2:37:28.360 --> 2:37:30.880 slam dunked it. Or we could have been like, uh 2:37:32.560 --> 2:37:34.959 what's his name on the Orlando Magic that missed those 2:37:35.000 --> 2:37:40.359 four Uh yeah, yeah, or we could have Kenny Anderson 2:37:40.400 --> 2:37:45.360 and missed and and lost our our our championship goals. 2:37:45.920 --> 2:37:48.320 No on the worst night, that show was dope. Um, 2:37:48.800 --> 2:37:52.360 I mean yeah, just for a listener. Wise, though, y'all 2:37:52.520 --> 2:37:54.880 you and indeed eventually did get like a pad on 2:37:54.959 --> 2:37:58.600 the back. Maybe it wasn't for Voodoo, but like creatively, 2:37:58.879 --> 2:38:02.200 at some point we had we had respect. We had 2:38:02.240 --> 2:38:05.320 his respect. Tell us who was in that band, in 2:38:05.400 --> 2:38:09.640 the in the Voodoos tour band, well, uh, miraculously he 2:38:09.840 --> 2:38:14.240 got Probably the best thing about that tour was the 2:38:14.360 --> 2:38:16.800 fact that he got a lot of cats to just 2:38:17.000 --> 2:38:20.920 leave their day jobs. Much of the Segrein of whatever 2:38:21.040 --> 2:38:25.320 situation they were in. So like Roy Hargrove, uh was 2:38:25.400 --> 2:38:30.240 part of the horn section, uh Peno Palladino, who um 2:38:31.240 --> 2:38:34.200 I mean by that point, I mean even before then, 2:38:34.360 --> 2:38:38.320 before two thousand, I mean he was severely in demand 2:38:38.600 --> 2:38:44.440 as a session bass player. Um cats like an uh 2:38:45.080 --> 2:38:51.600 about to say Anthony Anderson right before you did, right, Anthony, 2:38:51.760 --> 2:38:59.680 Anthony Hamilton's uh j Yes, Shelby j James KOs have 2:38:59.760 --> 2:39:04.720 one point Balou was yeah, but um didn't he get 2:39:04.760 --> 2:39:08.440 fired or something? Bloud never got fired. I couldn't swear 2:39:08.560 --> 2:39:11.320 there was some somebody got Firedou just things like I 2:39:11.360 --> 2:39:14.240 got fired. But okay, now he just got a record 2:39:14.320 --> 2:39:16.880 deal after that, and uh, you know, I mean there 2:39:17.000 --> 2:39:20.200 was a time lapse between the gig that Blou was 2:39:20.280 --> 2:39:24.360 on that was like the Essence Festival, and you know, 2:39:24.440 --> 2:39:27.360 by the time we got Voodoo finished, it was a 2:39:27.440 --> 2:39:33.279 new millennium. So but Spanky and uh yeah, Spanky, Alfred 2:39:33.480 --> 2:39:38.120 Chalmers and jeff Johnson Jesus, yeah I forgot about Yeah, 2:39:38.360 --> 2:39:42.200 God rest is so old to Jeffrey Johnson. Um. Anyway, 2:39:42.480 --> 2:39:45.280 So Alan, I would like to thank you for coming 2:39:45.320 --> 2:39:52.520 get up for Alan, Thank you for having me this 2:39:52.600 --> 2:39:57.040 is a bit fun. Thank you. I appreciate you coming. Um, 2:39:57.640 --> 2:40:08.960 I guess it's a brutality. Yeah, alright, so we're about 2:40:08.959 --> 2:40:14.000 to wrap up. We've learned a lot uh with Fontikola. Man, 2:40:14.200 --> 2:40:16.080 what did you learn today? Bro? What did I learn? 2:40:16.160 --> 2:40:17.840 I think the most interesting thing I learned just when 2:40:17.920 --> 2:40:22.000 listen now and talk is, um, how similar the business 2:40:22.280 --> 2:40:26.720 of you know yesterday or yesteryear. Rather, it's very similar 2:40:26.800 --> 2:40:29.560 to the business now, and that it's very much singles driven. 2:40:29.680 --> 2:40:31.640 You know what I'm saying. It's it's not really uh 2:40:32.360 --> 2:40:34.040 a thing of you know, it's not really about the 2:40:34.160 --> 2:40:36.560 album per se um. When you talk about James would 2:40:36.560 --> 2:40:39.440 put out a single every three months. That's pretty much 2:40:39.560 --> 2:40:42.720 what all the guys are doing now, particularly in like 2:40:42.840 --> 2:40:44.840 hip hop, and you know it's cats just kind of 2:40:44.879 --> 2:40:48.960 putting out well, you know, just singles. That's just what's 2:40:49.040 --> 2:40:52.680 kind of that only tells me that we need I mean, well, 2:40:53.320 --> 2:40:56.640 the Beatles changed all that once Charging Peppers came out. 2:40:56.680 --> 2:40:59.320 Then it was like, ah, the album to be the format. 2:40:59.440 --> 2:41:03.240 So I guess now any day now someone's gonna release 2:41:03.360 --> 2:41:06.800 the album format that will make everyone believe in a 2:41:06.840 --> 2:41:09.520 bigger vision than just the single and maybe they will 2:41:09.560 --> 2:41:17.720 do it only on pendor uh so uh, I'm paid, Billy. 2:41:18.560 --> 2:41:21.560 What did you learn today? Bro? Two things? One I 2:41:21.600 --> 2:41:24.000 could listen to on Lyad the Dog for fucking ever. Man. 2:41:24.080 --> 2:41:27.160 It's just like it was amazing and too it was 2:41:27.200 --> 2:41:29.440 interesting to listen to a guy who has been going 2:41:29.520 --> 2:41:32.400 off his instincts, his his love of music and what 2:41:32.560 --> 2:41:35.440 he likes and how that shaped his career. It's a 2:41:35.480 --> 2:41:37.840 pretty inspiring thing, just like this is the music he loved, 2:41:37.879 --> 2:41:39.920 and so he followed it and he continues to follow it. 2:41:40.000 --> 2:41:43.680 And I think, as a person who dabbles and music, 2:41:43.800 --> 2:41:47.160 that that's a great thing. That's amazing. There's very few 2:41:47.200 --> 2:41:48.960 people that get to make a living off of like 2:41:49.080 --> 2:41:51.080 what you love. I mean, like you have to sometimes 2:41:51.200 --> 2:41:52.760 just kind of do the ship you hate in order 2:41:52.840 --> 2:41:54.840 to make that rent. But and those people are in 2:41:54.879 --> 2:41:56.360 this room, which is also kind of cool to share 2:41:56.400 --> 2:41:59.840 that just trying to make rent man every damn day, 2:42:00.720 --> 2:42:04.199 sugar Steve. What I found interesting about Alan was among 2:42:04.879 --> 2:42:08.640 among the the things that made him uniquely qualified to 2:42:08.760 --> 2:42:10.120 do what he did and to have the career that 2:42:10.200 --> 2:42:13.920 he had was I think that at all the different stages, 2:42:13.959 --> 2:42:16.800 I think you did what my father tells me to do, 2:42:16.879 --> 2:42:20.000 which is make yourself useful. So like, in addition to 2:42:20.120 --> 2:42:23.040 doing your actual job of tour managing, you did the 2:42:23.080 --> 2:42:28.400 publicity for James and then you did the the imprint label. 2:42:28.400 --> 2:42:32.360 You're running that for Prince. So you were doing making yourself, 2:42:32.480 --> 2:42:35.080 you know, worthy of a salary, you know, worthy of 2:42:35.280 --> 2:42:39.119 having a weekly paycheck rather than just the tour manager checks. 2:42:39.160 --> 2:42:43.520 You know, kept your employed. You know, so I thought that, 2:42:44.400 --> 2:42:45.920 you know, I was thinking about my father, because it 2:42:46.040 --> 2:42:51.320 makes yourself useful. You know that my dad told me 2:42:51.400 --> 2:42:58.160 that too, your is not mine? Oh my god, so much? 2:42:58.480 --> 2:43:01.240 What had I learned? Well? I learned not to give up, 2:43:01.520 --> 2:43:04.279 um because I don't. Showed me that through your passion 2:43:04.600 --> 2:43:06.959 you can live life in the joyous way, and that's 2:43:07.000 --> 2:43:11.320 my goal. I have also learned that, um yeah, working 2:43:11.360 --> 2:43:13.440 with musicians is a doozy. I've also learned that I 2:43:13.480 --> 2:43:15.560 need to take a mirror in a corner and slow 2:43:15.680 --> 2:43:18.880 drag with him and to a nice Prince ballot, because 2:43:19.600 --> 2:43:24.000 show what is from with life. I'm just saying all 2:43:24.080 --> 2:43:28.640 that I learned some more too, Okay, much time, boss Bill? 2:43:29.360 --> 2:43:31.480 Would you learn bro? I learned that I'm too reliant 2:43:31.520 --> 2:43:36.320 on technology, and I wouldn't have made it four years ago. Yeah, 2:43:38.600 --> 2:43:51.440 I love technology as much as you. You see, we 2:43:51.600 --> 2:43:56.960 will see you next Wednesday one pm specifically yea and 2:43:57.240 --> 2:44:03.199 ten m specific specific Listen Pisketti ten am, Pisketti time. 2:44:04.560 --> 2:44:10.040 This is Quest Love Supreme Onfa Fontigoelo Boss Bill, unpaid Bill, 2:44:10.800 --> 2:44:15.840 and uh Sugar Steve and do we have a proper 2:44:15.920 --> 2:44:26.000 moniker for yet? Doesn't misogynistic Margaret. We'll see you then, 2:44:26.360 --> 2:44:36.840 Thank you, West. Love Supreme is a production of I 2:44:37.040 --> 2:44:40.440 Heart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team 2:44:40.680 --> 2:44:47.560 at Pandora. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit 2:44:47.600 --> 2:44:50.760 the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you 2:44:50.840 --> 2:44:52.000 listen to your favorite shows.