1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Holly 3 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:18,279 Speaker 1: Frye and I'm Tracy V. Wilson. Tracy. Pumpkin carving is 4 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:21,639 Speaker 1: one of my very very favorite Halloween activities. Oh hooray. 5 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:25,239 Speaker 1: I love it like I love it, and I'm talking 6 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 1: about that on Behind the Scenes Forever Halloween Season, Halloween Halloween. 7 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 1: I'm excited about it. Jack o lanearns have become one 8 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 1: of the most iconic symbols of Halloween, but their origin 9 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:41,319 Speaker 1: story is not super well documented because it's not as 10 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 1: though someone just invented them, or even a culture invented them, 11 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:48,600 Speaker 1: or if they were part of a specific event and 12 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 1: then became popular, although they are associated mostly with one culture. 13 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 1: But we'll talk about all of that. So tracing their roots. 14 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 1: I think I had told you a while back while 15 00:00:58,280 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 1: I was working them this, I'm trying to figure out 16 00:00:59,880 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 1: the shape of it because it does involve some folklore, 17 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 1: some agriculture, there's some literary influence that all come together 18 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:11,960 Speaker 1: to sort of make the jack lantern as important visually 19 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 1: to Halloween season as it is today. So we're going 20 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 1: to talk about all of that now. So the history 21 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: of jack lanterns starts with an Irish folk story about 22 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:27,959 Speaker 1: a man called Stingy Jack. There was a poem to 23 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:30,120 Speaker 1: tell the tale of Stingy Jack that came out in 24 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 1: eighteen fifty one, written by Hercules Ellis. This was included 25 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 1: in a book called the Rhyme Book, which collected a 26 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 1: number of folk tales and told them in verse. The 27 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 1: story of Stingy Jack is a lot older, though, and 28 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 1: there are many variations. This eighteen fifty one poem opens 29 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 1: with a rather unsavory depiction of Jack and his unkind ways, 30 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 1: and it calls him by his more formal name of 31 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 1: John rather than Jack. Quote greater Charle was never known 32 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 1: on this earth than Stingy John. From his door, the 33 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:13,080 Speaker 1: poor were turned, unrelieved and cursed and spurned. But as 34 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: this version of Stingy Jack's story plays out, while he 35 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:20,639 Speaker 1: is traveling home one night, Jack encounters a poor stranger 36 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 1: who claims that they are near death, and they ask 37 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: for help, and surprisingly Jack offers aid. He picks the 38 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 1: stranger up, and he puts him on his horse and 39 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 1: brings him to his home, where he feeds this man 40 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:35,920 Speaker 1: and gives him a place to sleep. But then the 41 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 1: next morning, Jack awakens to find that the poor traveler 42 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 1: that he helped was actually an angel, who says to 43 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 1: him in the poem quote though called a churl by 44 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 1: all around, mercy in your heart, I've found ask three gifts. 45 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 1: I'll give them you and my blessing ad there too. 46 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:59,920 Speaker 1: After contemplating this offer, Jack asks for the following quote, 47 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:04,240 Speaker 1: I wish whoever takes my chair maybe fastened firmly there 48 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 1: he to chair and share to ground till my leave 49 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: to go be found. Next, I pray whatever fools metal 50 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: with my box of tools may be fastened to the 51 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:18,359 Speaker 1: wall till to let them go I call. Thirdly, sir, 52 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 1: I would implore that who breaks my sycamore may be 53 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 1: fixed fast to the tree till I choose to set 54 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 1: him free. And so the angel, sighing, grants these three wishes. 55 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 1: But this seals Jack's fate because in not asking for 56 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 1: heaven when offered anything by the angel and instead making 57 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: wishes that are intended to trap people in his control, 58 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 1: he has doomed himself to never enter the pearly gates. 59 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 1: But Jack doesn't really realize that anything bad is going 60 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 1: to happen. To him at this point, because his life 61 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 1: goes pretty well. He's healthy, his flocks flourish, and he 62 00:03:56,280 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 1: gets really rich. But eventually, like everyone old and his 63 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 1: end of life nears. And because he has doomed himself 64 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: to Hell with these wishes, the devil sends one of 65 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 1: his servants up from Hell to fetch Jack. And when 66 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 1: that servant comes to Jack's door, Jack invites him in 67 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 1: and offers him a seat, and that seals the devil's 68 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: servant to it because of that first wish. Jack then 69 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: beats the servant. This is all a pretty violent story, 70 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:26,359 Speaker 1: I will say, and then makes him a deal that 71 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 1: if he promises to never come back, he will be 72 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 1: set free, and the servant of the devil agrees to this. 73 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 1: Of course, the devil has other servants and sends another one, 74 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,480 Speaker 1: and that servant is aware of what happened to the first. 75 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 1: This emissary is adamant that Jack has to report to Hell, 76 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:45,839 Speaker 1: and Jack says that he'll go, but he has to 77 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 1: fix his shoes first or he won't be able to 78 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:51,920 Speaker 1: make the journey. So he asks the Devil's servant number 79 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: two to hand him an all from his toolbox that, 80 00:04:56,040 --> 00:05:00,080 Speaker 1: of course traps that servant. Once again, Jack beats the 81 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 1: devil's servant and offers him freedom for the promise that 82 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: he will not return. There is another uh. The third 83 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:10,840 Speaker 1: visit that Jack gets is from the devil himself, who 84 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:14,039 Speaker 1: is tired of his minions being tricked, and, according to 85 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 1: the poem, quote said Jack, my lord, I'm ready quite 86 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 1: but dead lame is old. Jack. You must go get 87 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 1: me a good stout stick, or take me on your back. 88 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 1: So the devil goes to Jack's nearby sycamore tree to 89 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:30,600 Speaker 1: get a walking stick from it, and is then fastened 90 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 1: tight to the tree, where Jack flails him for a 91 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:37,719 Speaker 1: long time. He flails him so much that the devil's 92 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: roars are heard as far away as Germany, Italy, and Spain. 93 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:45,480 Speaker 1: According to this poem, the devil is finally freed by 94 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 1: Jack after he promises that he will never take Jack 95 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:51,919 Speaker 1: to Hell. But that means that when Jack dies, his 96 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 1: soul has nowhere to go. So this poem concludes at length, 97 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:59,159 Speaker 1: Jack died, and when his soul was from his body riven, 98 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 1: it could not get through Hell's wide gate, nor yet 99 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:06,039 Speaker 1: through those of Heaven. By his free choice, he lost 100 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 1: the last and Satan did not fail his oath to 101 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 1: keep and Jack to sweep from Hell's gates with his flail. Then, 102 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:16,280 Speaker 1: since Jack is unfit for heaven and Hell won't give 103 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 1: him room, his ghost is forced to walk the earth 104 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 1: until the day of Doom. A lantern in his hand, 105 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 1: he bears the way by night to show and from 106 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:31,240 Speaker 1: its flame he got the name of Jack. A lantern. Now, so, 107 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 1: there's a more common version of this folk tale that 108 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:38,599 Speaker 1: pre dates the poem. In that version, Jack invites the 109 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 1: devil to drink with him at a pub, but he 110 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 1: does not have the money to pay to cover the bill. 111 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 1: He makes a deal with the devil, offering his soul 112 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 1: for money. The devil agrees and turns himself into a coin. 113 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 1: So the plan is Jack will use the coin to 114 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:56,159 Speaker 1: pay for the drinks and then the devil will return 115 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 1: to his normal shape and leave. But Jack does not 116 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 1: pay his bill with the devil coin. Instead, he walks 117 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:04,359 Speaker 1: out on the bill and puts the coin in his 118 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: pocket along with the cross that keeps the devil from 119 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 1: assuming his true form, and eventually Jack decides to let 120 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 1: the devil free from this trap. For a reason that 121 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: is usually determined by the teller's choosing like guilt or fear, 122 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 1: and he makes the deal with Satan at this moment 123 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 1: that in exchange for freedom, the devil cannot bother Jack 124 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 1: for ten years. That seems like a foolish deal to make, 125 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: but whatever. When the devil sees Jack again after that 126 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 1: allotted period has passed, he gets tricked again. This time, 127 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 1: Jack says he will go willingly after he has an 128 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 1: apple from a tree that is not too far off 129 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:45,559 Speaker 1: from where this conversation is taking place, and he asks 130 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: the devil if he will climb up into the tree 131 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 1: to fetch an especially good apple. The devil obliges. Clearly, 132 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 1: the devil is kind of a ding dong in these 133 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 1: stories because he just gets tricked over and over. And 134 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 1: while Satan is out this tree, Jack carves across on 135 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: the trunk and that prevents the devil from getting down 136 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 1: once again. Jack frees the devil this time makes a 137 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: deal that his soul cannot be taken to Hell when 138 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 1: he dies. The devil agrees and his freed, and both 139 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 1: of them just go about their business until Jack does 140 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 1: finally die of old age. At that point, he's refused 141 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 1: entry into heaven and sent by Saint Peter to Hell, 142 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 1: but the devil can't take him either per their previous arrangement, 143 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:34,320 Speaker 1: so instead he gives Jack a small flame from the 144 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 1: fires of Hell. Jack puts the flame into a carved 145 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 1: out turnip to use as a lamp, and because his 146 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 1: soul can't go to heaven or Hell, he just wanders 147 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 1: the earth until Judgment Day with this little turnip light. Yeah, 148 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 1: sometimes that's described as a flame, sometimes as a burning 149 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 1: charcoal from the fires of Hell, or a spark. It 150 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 1: comes up a little bit differently, but no matter the details. 151 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: The story of Stinjack in his lantern is really not 152 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 1: connected to Halloween initially, but was a way to explain 153 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 1: the idea of floating lights that people saw at night, 154 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 1: the same thing you may have heard called will of 155 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 1: the Wisp or some other thing. So those floating lights 156 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 1: associated with bogs are said to lower travelers off course 157 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:23,239 Speaker 1: and to their doom. They are described as being perpetually 158 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:26,199 Speaker 1: out of reach, so as a person approaches, they seem 159 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:31,200 Speaker 1: to move away, and there is a scientific explanation for 160 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 1: this phenomenon. They're a couple, actually, So it's believed that 161 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 1: marsh gas, which is high in methane, sometimes produces light 162 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:42,079 Speaker 1: as the flora around it decomposes and creates a chemical reaction. 163 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 1: That's a process called chemoluminescence. The other explainer is bioluminescence, 164 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:50,680 Speaker 1: which happens when a chemical reaction produces light in living 165 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:54,680 Speaker 1: organisms and is not a decomposition thing. But before that 166 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 1: science was understood, the various myths and lore were used 167 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 1: to explain those boglines and other cultures have completely different 168 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 1: explanations for this phenomenon. But this Irish folk tale is 169 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:09,079 Speaker 1: the one that gives rise to the Jack o' lantern. 170 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:11,640 Speaker 1: This also reminds me of the make a Light which 171 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: we just talked about. Yes, uh so, how did this 172 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 1: tale of the doomed, untethered soul of Stingy Jack lead 173 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 1: to kids carrying plastic pumpkins around during trick or treat time. 174 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 1: We're going to talk about the history of the pumpkin 175 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 1: before we get to that, and we will do that 176 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:43,079 Speaker 1: after a sponsor break. Pumpkins are native to North and 177 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:46,599 Speaker 1: Central America. In the book Pumpkin, The Curious History of 178 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 1: an American Icon, author Cindy Ott makes the case that 179 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 1: the pumpkin may have been the first plant that was 180 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 1: transitioned from wild to cultivated by people living in the Americas, 181 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:01,440 Speaker 1: making them a keystone of the transition to agricultural versus 182 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: foraging society. The oldest cultivated pumpkin seeds we know of 183 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 1: came from the Wahaca Highlands in Mexico, and they're somewhere 184 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:15,200 Speaker 1: between eight and ten thousand years old. That, according to Ott, 185 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 1: makes them two thousand years older than any known corn 186 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 1: or bean seeds. But those early pumpkins were nothing like 187 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:27,079 Speaker 1: the behemoths you can find today at a supermarket. They 188 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:30,439 Speaker 1: were small, their range was pretty close to a modern 189 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 1: regulation baseball or a softball in range. The reasons that 190 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:38,679 Speaker 1: pumpkins became so popular among early American cultures is one 191 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:42,559 Speaker 1: that's debated. They would not have been the very fleshy, 192 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: sweet version that we have today, but a lot more 193 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 1: bitter with a thinner wall of flesh until they were 194 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 1: selectively bred for having a bigger size and sweeter flavor. 195 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 1: But they were consistent and reliable as a crop. One 196 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 1: of the reasons that sprouting punkumpkin seeds as a popular 197 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 1: classroom activity today is because it is really easy to do. 198 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:09,200 Speaker 1: Pumpkins grow quickly, and they would have added variety to 199 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 1: the diet of early agrarian groups. Yeah, if you're like 200 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:15,680 Speaker 1: me and you dump all your stuff in your composter 201 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 1: without a whole lot of thoughts, sometimes you get surprise 202 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:22,959 Speaker 1: gift pumpkin vines. They're just so easy to grow, they 203 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 1: just want to sprout. By the twelve hundred's, indigenous peoples 204 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 1: on the eastern seaboard of North America had a really 205 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 1: established practice of growing pumpkins, and they had been standard 206 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:36,320 Speaker 1: crops even earlier than that in other areas of the continent, 207 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 1: so well before Europeans made their way across the Atlantic, 208 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:45,720 Speaker 1: the pumpkin was pretty plentiful. Exact varieties and specific timelines 209 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:49,840 Speaker 1: of them are really difficult to trace because those things 210 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 1: were shifting year to year as sweeter versions were sought 211 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 1: out for eating, and other members of the Kukubatacea family 212 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 1: were cultivated for other uses, for example, gourds that could 213 00:12:59,960 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 1: be hollowed out and used as vessels, and these were 214 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 1: grown alongside corn and beans in what is known today 215 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 1: as the Three Sisters method of planting. It's also called 216 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 1: companion planting, and in this arrangement, the corn serves as 217 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 1: a trellis for the beans to grow up the beans, 218 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 1: stabilize the corn, and add nitrogen to the soil, which 219 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:24,559 Speaker 1: helps support the pumpkins and the corn, and the pumpkins 220 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 1: or their close relatives, because it's not always a pumpkin, 221 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 1: protect the soil and roots of the other plants while 222 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:34,440 Speaker 1: suppressing weed growth. Pumpkins are a good source of vitamin A, 223 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 1: with potassium, iron, and vitamin C also included in their 224 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 1: nutritional profile, so their benefits make it pretty clear why 225 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:46,079 Speaker 1: they became an important part of early North American agriculture. 226 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 1: The word pumpkin doesn't come from the languages of these 227 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 1: indigenous peoples, though. Field pumpkins, like the big orange ones 228 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:57,319 Speaker 1: that are so closely associated with autumn and its holidays. 229 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 1: Those were grouped with a lot of other varieties of 230 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 1: crops under the name squash. That word, according to the 231 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:07,959 Speaker 1: Library of Congress, as from the word a scuta squash, 232 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 1: which is a Narragansett word referring to something that's eaten raw. 233 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 1: The word pumpkin has roots in the Greek word pepin, 234 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 1: which means large melon. I feel like I said that 235 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 1: as though it were French. When this was adopted into French, 236 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 1: that word was transitioned to Pompon, and then that became 237 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 1: Pumpion and Great Britain before evolving into Pumpkin. So when 238 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 1: Europeans came to North America, they eventually adopted the pumpkin 239 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 1: into their own diet as a staple food for all 240 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: of the reasons it had already been popular with indigenous peoples. 241 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 1: In addition to the benefits we've already mentioned, there is 242 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 1: the bonus that pumpkins can be used just about in 243 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 1: their entirety right. You can roast and eat the seeds, 244 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 1: the blossoms can be eaten, the skins can be eaten. 245 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 1: You can so treat the skins for other uses like weaving. 246 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 1: So clearly it's a great crop. So now that the 247 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 1: pumpkins place in North American agriculture is established, we're gonna 248 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 1: jump back to the story of Stingy Jack. Because Jack's spirit, 249 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 1: wandering the world, unable to enter heaven or hell, carried 250 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 1: a turn up lantern. Became known as Jack of the 251 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 1: Lantern or Jack o lantern, But he wasn't the only 252 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:30,160 Speaker 1: one called that name. The term jack lantern was also 253 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: used to describe night watchmen who carried lanterns as they 254 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: patrolled their areas. The use of the name jack o' 255 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 1: lanterns interchangeably with will of the wisp or other names 256 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 1: to describe that eerie and uncatchable light we talked about, 257 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 1: was well established by the late eighteenth century. I found 258 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 1: it very easy to find numerous newspaper articles that reference 259 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 1: them by the jack lantern name. One appearing in the 260 00:15:56,680 --> 00:16:00,120 Speaker 1: Bath Journal in October seventeen seventy nine, is about I 261 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 1: writ Paul Jones, and it states, quote Paul Jones resembles 262 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 1: a jack o' lantern to mislead our mariners and terrify 263 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 1: our coasts. He is no sooner seen than lost. Another 264 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 1: printed in February seventeen ninety two in the Freeman's Journal 265 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 1: or the North American Intelligencer, included a criticism of the 266 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 1: French nobility, which read, in part quote, Unfortunately, in their 267 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 1: search of light, they turn their backs upon the steady 268 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 1: luminary reason and follow certain jacka lanterns that lead them astray. Accordingly, 269 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 1: they have lost themselves in the public opinion. One article 270 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 1: that appeared in the Portland Gazette in September of seventeen 271 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 1: ninety eight begins as though it's an etymology of the 272 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 1: word jacobin, suggesting that the final syllable was really lynn, 273 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 1: which was an evolution from land as an abbreviation of lantern, 274 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 1: and that jacobin and jack o lantern are the same word. 275 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 1: This is, in actuality, a criticism of the Jacobins, comparing 276 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:04,959 Speaker 1: them to a thing that seems appealing but is in 277 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 1: fact not. The article includes a list of characteristics of 278 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:12,639 Speaker 1: the jackalantern and concludes with quote to all appearances, it 279 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:15,359 Speaker 1: is an angel of light, but in reality it is 280 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:18,640 Speaker 1: an angel of darkness. In short, it is the very 281 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 1: devil all over. And so my good reader is the Jacobin. 282 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:26,919 Speaker 1: So the idea of a jack lantern was well established 283 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 1: before that eighteen fifty one poem that we mentioned in 284 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:33,119 Speaker 1: the first segment of the show, and some versions of 285 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 1: the Stingy Jack story also account for the idea that 286 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:40,200 Speaker 1: other people started carving their own turnips and potatoes to 287 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 1: have scary faces, and they put these creatures in their 288 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 1: windows to scare off the wandering Jack or any other creature. 289 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 1: This actually becomes a little bit confusing because it appears 290 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:55,679 Speaker 1: that they're in telling this story there has been a 291 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 1: co mingling of two ideas. So the explainer of the 292 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 1: Boglin light known as Ignus Thoughtuus or fools Fire that 293 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 1: we've been talking about, and the Celtic Sawen celebration. Sawen, 294 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 1: which means end of Summer, was a festival that marked 295 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 1: the transition to autumn. This was also the Celtic New 296 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 1: Year and was associated not just with the changing of 297 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:22,360 Speaker 1: the seasons, but also with death and rebirth. The end 298 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:25,639 Speaker 1: of harvest and the preparation for winter has come to 299 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:28,399 Speaker 1: be associated with a lot of concepts, and some of 300 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 1: them are on the spooky and scary side. Although we 301 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:34,639 Speaker 1: don't really have a lot of reliable information about the 302 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:39,160 Speaker 1: actual historical practices, it's believed that the Celtic festival, which 303 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 1: marked the delineation between the light and dark parts of 304 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 1: the year, also marked a time when the living and 305 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:47,919 Speaker 1: the dead might have contact. There may have been a 306 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 1: time when the world of the supernatural and of deities 307 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 1: was believed to be accessible or at least visible to 308 00:18:55,119 --> 00:19:00,080 Speaker 1: mortal humans. So, based on what we know they're there 309 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 1: are some pretty easy to recognize similarities between historical Swen 310 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 1: activities and modern Halloween, including dressing up in costume. So 311 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:13,480 Speaker 1: while today's costume party might be about finding the funniest 312 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:17,880 Speaker 1: or most impressive ensemble. The participants in Sooyen were more 313 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:23,240 Speaker 1: likely selecting disguises to confuse evil spirits. Bonfires are also 314 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 1: believed to have been a common practice as a way 315 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:28,679 Speaker 1: to protect the gathered celebrants, and fortune telling may have 316 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:31,399 Speaker 1: been part of the festivities because this was a time 317 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:35,400 Speaker 1: of looking to the year ahead. After the Romans defeated 318 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 1: the Celts in the first century, Celtic paganism was subsumed 319 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:42,920 Speaker 1: into Christian ideology through a careful rewrite of the narrative 320 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:46,199 Speaker 1: of the meanings of various practices, kind of along the 321 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 1: lines of oh, no, no, no, that thing you've always 322 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 1: done has actually been a Christian thing all along. This 323 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:55,720 Speaker 1: was especially the case when All Saints Day was declared 324 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 1: in the year six o nine, and then it was 325 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:02,200 Speaker 1: handily moved a couple centuries later to coincide with sawm 326 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 1: And this is when the day before All Saints' Day, 327 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,879 Speaker 1: known as All Hollows Eve, started to develop the identity 328 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 1: that we would come to recognize as the holiday of Halloween. 329 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 1: Coming up, we'll talk about how this braiding together of 330 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:19,679 Speaker 1: folklore and holidays led to the jack lantern being a 331 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:22,639 Speaker 1: symbol of the season. We'll do that right after we 332 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:35,639 Speaker 1: hear from some sponsors that keep the show going. So 333 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:38,640 Speaker 1: all of this talk of stingy jack of pumpkin crops 334 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 1: and sawn brings us back to jack lanterns. There are 335 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 1: historians who believe that vegetables may have been carved to 336 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:50,480 Speaker 1: look like heads as part of the Celtic celebration, and 337 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:52,720 Speaker 1: the Celts of the pre Roman era did have a 338 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:55,960 Speaker 1: lot of mythology about the importance of the head, and 339 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 1: these carvings may have represented the heads of vanquished enemies, 340 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:03,240 Speaker 1: but that is just theory. But a completely different explanation 341 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:07,119 Speaker 1: is that people used root vegetable lanterns for sawn because 342 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:10,360 Speaker 1: they were going around their villages searching for libations, that 343 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,919 Speaker 1: was another part of the celebration, and they just needed lights. 344 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 1: It wasn't necessarily symbolic, and that simple need may have 345 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 1: evolved into the lanterns carved to have faces on them. 346 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:24,639 Speaker 1: Whether that was the case or not, we do know 347 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 1: that carving turnips and potatoes with faces and putting a 348 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:31,640 Speaker 1: candle inside had become a common practice in Ireland by 349 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:34,879 Speaker 1: the eighteenth century, and it does make some sense that 350 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:38,159 Speaker 1: the story that explained the strange Marsh lights and the 351 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 1: traditions of Sawyn had become intertwined because both of those 352 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:46,120 Speaker 1: stories are tied together geographically. So by the time Irish 353 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 1: immigrants made their way to North America starting in the 354 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 1: early eighteenth century, they brought this vegetable carving tradition, which 355 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:55,680 Speaker 1: had already been part of the autumn celebrations with them, 356 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:59,680 Speaker 1: and then they discovered that the pumpkins that were plentiful 357 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:02,399 Speaker 1: in their new home were a lot easier to carve 358 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,919 Speaker 1: than the other vegetables and were more plentiful as well. 359 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:10,679 Speaker 1: Before long, pumpkins carved into lanterns with faces were common 360 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 1: in the autumn, and not just in Irish homes. One 361 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 1: of the cultural moments that helped make jack O'Lanterns popular 362 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 1: in the US did not actually feature any jack o lanterns. 363 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 1: That was the eighteen twenty publication of the Legend of 364 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:28,719 Speaker 1: Sleepy Hollow by Washington Irving. So if you're thinking of 365 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:31,959 Speaker 1: that story and spoiler alert if you have somehow managed 366 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:34,239 Speaker 1: to never read it or see an adaptation of it, 367 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 1: you may recall the headless horseman throwing a jack o' 368 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:40,639 Speaker 1: lantern at Ichabod Crane near the end of the book, 369 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:45,160 Speaker 1: but Irving never wrote that it was a jack lantern, 370 00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 1: just a pumpkin. The moment where Ikabad is attacked culminates 371 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 1: in this excerpt quote, Just then he saw the goblin 372 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:55,879 Speaker 1: rising in his stirrups, and in the very act of 373 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 1: hurling his head at him, Ikabod endeavored to dodge the 374 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:03,080 Speaker 1: horrible missile, but too late it encountered his cranium with 375 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:06,959 Speaker 1: a tremendous crash. He was tumbled headlong into the dust, 376 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 1: and gunpowdered the black steed, and the goblin writer passed 377 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,920 Speaker 1: by like a whirlwind. And then at the end of 378 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,879 Speaker 1: the next paragraph quote, on the bank of a broad 379 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:19,399 Speaker 1: part of the brook, where the water ran deep and black, 380 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 1: was found the hat of the unfortunate Ichabod, and close 381 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:27,879 Speaker 1: behind it a shattered pumpkin. Just a pumpkin, not a 382 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: jack lantern. But illustrations of that scene have almost always 383 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 1: included a pumpkin with a face carved into it, starting 384 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 1: very shortly after it was published, and that helps cement 385 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:43,120 Speaker 1: the idea that jack lanterns had been an integral part 386 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:46,879 Speaker 1: of white European culture in North America from just about 387 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 1: the very beginning and a jack o' lantern was explicitly 388 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 1: mentioned fifteen years later and the text of Nathaniel Hawthorne's 389 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:58,280 Speaker 1: The Great Carbuncle. The titular carbuncle is a gem that 390 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 1: a band of adventurers are just dicussing what to do with. 391 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 1: One of the character's plans to conceal it under his clothes, 392 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,960 Speaker 1: and another replies, hide it under thy cloak, sayest thou 393 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 1: why it will gleam through the holes and make thee 394 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 1: look like a jack o lantern. It's unclear whether this 395 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:19,640 Speaker 1: reference means the carved pumpkin or the glimmering lights over 396 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 1: a marsh. Hawthorne also describes a pumpkin jack of lantern, 397 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,560 Speaker 1: but doesn't use that phrase. In his eighteen fifty two 398 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 1: story Feathertop, the character Feathertop is a scarecrow with a 399 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 1: carved pumpkin for a head, and he comes to life. Yeah, 400 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 1: I favor the side that it in the carbuncle he 401 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 1: means a carved pumpkin jack lantern, but it's up for 402 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:44,920 Speaker 1: debate from there. The jack of lantern started making appearances 403 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:48,879 Speaker 1: throughout poetry, stories, and art. In the United States. You 404 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,920 Speaker 1: can find it on woodblock prints starting in the mid 405 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 1: nineteenth century, and it was frequently seen on magazine covers 406 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:59,879 Speaker 1: during Halloween season by the nineteen twenties. By the nineteen thirties, 407 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 1: his trigger treating became part of the standard Halloween fun. 408 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:07,359 Speaker 1: Jack lanterns were considered an essential part of the festivities, 409 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,160 Speaker 1: so much so that an article in the Honolulu Advertiser 410 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,399 Speaker 1: from October thirty first, nineteen thirty one, appeared with the 411 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 1: headline Whyalua children use papayas for pumpkins to scare on Halloween. 412 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 1: This article explains it because Honolulu did not have pumpkins, 413 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:27,120 Speaker 1: they still had to have jacka lanterns, and so they 414 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 1: used papayas. This write up includes several stories of kids 415 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,680 Speaker 1: using them to scare people, including one where a kid 416 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,639 Speaker 1: hid in a hibiscus bush with his papaya jack a 417 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:40,560 Speaker 1: lantern and scared passers by with it. Early trigger treaders 418 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,120 Speaker 1: used jack o lanterns to light their way as they 419 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 1: walked the neighborhood's streets for their candy halls. This meant 420 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,600 Speaker 1: that the lantern was just that it was a light source, 421 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:53,639 Speaker 1: not a candy receptacle. Often these are made of materials 422 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:57,360 Speaker 1: like paper mache instead of actual pumpkins to make them 423 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:01,359 Speaker 1: easier to carry. These transitioned away from candles as the 424 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:05,439 Speaker 1: light to simple batteries with bulbs as safety concerns arose, 425 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:09,400 Speaker 1: and by the nineteen fifties plastic battery powered pumpkin lanterns 426 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 1: started to appear. Over time, the plastic jack lantern transitioned 427 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 1: from guiding light to candy receptacle. In nineteen fifty two, 428 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,520 Speaker 1: the Quad City Times of Davenport, Iowa suggested a series 429 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 1: of party ideas that one might stage for Halloween, all 430 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:29,440 Speaker 1: of which included one or more jack lanterns as decor. 431 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 1: One was an apple and nut party for teenagers. Feel 432 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 1: like if you pitch that today you might get some shrugs, 433 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 1: and another was a jack lantern supper that included sandwiches 434 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 1: made with bread cut to look like jack lanterns. A 435 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 1: look through almost any town's papers around Halloween season from 436 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:53,120 Speaker 1: the mid twentieth century on shows loads of similar articles, 437 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,640 Speaker 1: although I never found a single one that mentioned stingy 438 00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 1: jack or warding away evil spirits. It was all just 439 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 1: in fun. Today, of course, you can buy plastic jack 440 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 1: lanterns and all kinds of colors and realistic looking fake 441 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:12,119 Speaker 1: pumpkins for carving or already carved. Real pumpkins remain an 442 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 1: important part of US agriculture. In twenty twenty and estimated 443 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:19,359 Speaker 1: one point five billion pounds of pumpkins were grown in 444 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:23,639 Speaker 1: the US. Illinois has long been the country's top producer, 445 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:28,440 Speaker 1: with Pennsylvania, New York, Indiana, Michigan, California, Texas, Ohio, Wisconsin, 446 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:33,240 Speaker 1: and Virginia as the other big pumpkins states. And if 447 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 1: you want to carve a real pumpkin but you're not 448 00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:37,359 Speaker 1: that confident about it, you can also buy all kinds 449 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:41,119 Speaker 1: of special pumpkin carving tools and kits to get that 450 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,840 Speaker 1: job done. And now the jack of lantern is everywhere, 451 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:50,440 Speaker 1: and I'm a happy little ghoul. I have two pieces 452 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,119 Speaker 1: of listener mail and they're both brief, which is why 453 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: I'm including two, and they feature apples, so that seems 454 00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:00,920 Speaker 1: still in our autumnal zone. The first is from our listener, Tabitha, 455 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:05,320 Speaker 1: and it is titled Honey Fungus Hunting. Tabitha writes, Hello, 456 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:07,359 Speaker 1: I just wanted to share that I was listening to 457 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 1: your podcast about the Bramley apple tree being infected by 458 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,480 Speaker 1: honey fungus right as I was out hunting for honey 459 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:17,679 Speaker 1: mushrooms because they are edible. I am a certified wild 460 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,760 Speaker 1: mushroom forager, and I teach people how to safely id 461 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:24,280 Speaker 1: and eat the honey fungus and how it does infect trees. 462 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:26,639 Speaker 1: Your podcast is my favorite. Thank you for all that 463 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 1: you both do. Thank you for that because I had 464 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,960 Speaker 1: not seen in any of my research on the tree. Yeah, 465 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,679 Speaker 1: you could eat those. I will say, please do not 466 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,640 Speaker 1: go eat some mushrooms from near a tree based on 467 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 1: this audio description. You need someone like Tabitha to guide 468 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 1: you who has done all of the training and research. Yeah. 469 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:54,200 Speaker 1: Any mushroom identification requires like several different not just oh 470 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,680 Speaker 1: this is growing near the tree and is honeycolored. That 471 00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 1: is bad enough. There are some honey color mushrooms that 472 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 1: grow near trees that can kill you. So yeah, don't 473 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 1: do that, don't. I'm terrified of wild mushrooms. Yeah, yeah, 474 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 1: unless they have been gathered by someone lake that is 475 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 1: at a farmer's market that I know is certified. Yeah. 476 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 1: I follow some foragers on TikTok whose work I really enjoy. 477 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 1: But I also we grew a lot of things in 478 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 1: a garden growing up, but my mother was very clear 479 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 1: on the direction that we were not to eat anything 480 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 1: we found in the wild because we would immediately die, 481 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:40,840 Speaker 1: which is an overly conservative look at things that grow 482 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:44,160 Speaker 1: in the wild. But like all of the foragers that 483 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 1: I watch are super like, you have to do these 484 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 1: multiple things you cannot just look at like the color 485 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 1: of the mushroom or whatever. Yeah, I kind of I'm 486 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:54,920 Speaker 1: with your mom. That's a better safe than sorry when 487 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,880 Speaker 1: it comes to kids who maybe don't always exhibit a 488 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:03,040 Speaker 1: plus judgment. Sure, I know I didn't. My other email 489 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:06,000 Speaker 1: cost from our listener, Becky, who writes, Dear Holly and Tracy, 490 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,320 Speaker 1: your latest eponymous foods episode on the Macintosh and Bramley 491 00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:13,320 Speaker 1: Apples gave me a craving for apple pie. Of course 492 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 1: that calls for a trip to the orchard. As I 493 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 1: wanted to make both pie and apple salad, and remembering 494 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 1: the episode, I put the Macintosh apples down and bought 495 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:25,960 Speaker 1: Cartland's so far too delicious apple pies. The best part 496 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,240 Speaker 1: of a visit to our local orchard is apple cider 497 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 1: slushes with caramel syrup. Incredible. That sounds amazing. Here is 498 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,840 Speaker 1: a photo of our rescue pup, Rocky, wearing a hoodie. 499 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,480 Speaker 1: Yes I heard the end of the Anne Radcliffe episode 500 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 1: and clothing on animals. Rocky is not a fan. Rocky 501 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:47,520 Speaker 1: is so precious, so precious. And then Becky mentions that 502 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 1: she met both of us in the before times at 503 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 1: the live show in Indianapolis, which hopefully we'll do again 504 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,960 Speaker 1: sometimes soonish Matya is so cute. I want to kiss 505 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 1: that face seven thousand times, like he just has one 506 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:03,280 Speaker 1: of those faces. Thank you for writing us, both Tabitha 507 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:07,479 Speaker 1: and Becky. We hope anybody that's enjoying pumpkin or appley 508 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,960 Speaker 1: or anything autumnal yummy right now is having the very 509 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:14,280 Speaker 1: best time of it. You can write to us at 510 00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:17,160 Speaker 1: History podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. You can find us 511 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:20,320 Speaker 1: on social media as Missed in History, and if you 512 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 1: haven't subscribed yet, you can go ahead and do that 513 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app or anywhere you listen to your 514 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 1: favorite shows. Stuff you Missed in History Class is a 515 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:37,720 Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the 516 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:41,239 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 517 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:42,000 Speaker 1: favorite shows.