Speaker 1: Cool Media.
Speaker 2: Hi everyone, Margaret here and I'm not in my studio,
Speaker 2: so this sound sounds different because I'm on tour. This
Speaker 2: isn't a blurb about me being on tour. That's just
Speaker 2: my excuse for the bad audio. Also, there's a large
Speaker 2: dog next to me and she wants to be involved
Speaker 2: in this recording, but she can't be. But the point
Speaker 2: of this This week's episodes are about formal and informal
Speaker 2: disaster relief organizations working together or as best they can
Speaker 2: to try to help people in disaster situations. And I
Speaker 2: recorded it a week and a half ago. Just a
Speaker 2: few days ago, Hurricane Helene hit the US pretty badly,
Speaker 2: and it in particular hit western North Carolina, and so
Speaker 2: they n Apalachia in general in some of the least
Speaker 2: resourced parts of the country, and people are as of
Speaker 2: me recording this on Saturday, cut off from cell service,
Speaker 2: cut off from food, gas, and water, and people are
Speaker 2: working right now to try to alleviate that. And one
Speaker 2: of the groups that I talk about a little bit
Speaker 2: in this episode is Mutual Aid Disaster Relief Matter MADR,
Speaker 2: and they are currently looking for resources and gear to
Speaker 2: donate to the people, and they are working with pilots
Speaker 2: and trucks to get your donations into the affected areas.
Speaker 2: And I would heavily recommend that people check out Mutual
Speaker 2: Aid Disaster Relief on social media, which is the name
Speaker 2: of the organization, as well as the idea to find
Speaker 2: how to donate. There are going to be in a
Speaker 2: lot of areas elsewhere in North Carolina and likely elsewhere
Speaker 2: staging ground areas where people are collecting gear to get
Speaker 2: it to where it needs to go. But you can
Speaker 2: also just donate money, and I have done so and
Speaker 2: encourage you to do so because well, as they say,
Speaker 2: we keep us safe, and there's a lot of people
Speaker 2: that we can help keep safe right now, and I
Speaker 2: hope you help me in doing that. Okay, I hope
Speaker 2: you enjoyed the episode. Hello, and welcome to Cool People.
Speaker 2: Did Cool Stuff your weekly reminder that hope is a
Speaker 2: discipline and we have to find it sometimes and sometimes
Speaker 2: it's hard, but it can usually be done, and so
Speaker 2: we try to do it. I'm your host, Marrak Kiljoy
Speaker 2: with my strangely earnest intro, but I have a guest
Speaker 2: who's Katie Stole. Hi.
Speaker 3: Hi, Hi, I loved your strangely earnest intro. I think
Speaker 3: it's important and everything you said is accurate.
Speaker 2: Thank you. I feel like hope is a thing that
Speaker 2: is extra important at times when it's really easy to.
Speaker 1: Not have it.
Speaker 3: So yeah, absolutely, And you know what, people love a
Speaker 3: little bit of earnestness, just a bit.
Speaker 4: People appreciate it.
Speaker 2: I hope so because otherwise I'm doomed on social media,
Speaker 2: although I don't love it, so maybe if being doomed
Speaker 2: off of it. Every now and then, I'll like say
Speaker 2: things on Twitter and people will be like, you're just
Speaker 2: not actually getting that. There's like levels of sarcasm and
Speaker 2: irony happening here, and I'm like, I just don't know.
Speaker 2: I'm old in earnest. Leave me alone. But listener, you
Speaker 2: might know Katie from even more News and some more
Speaker 2: news and lots of news, just the news, the news.
Speaker 3: In general, Katie, the news stole coming at you. The
Speaker 3: ones and twos. I don't know that's a recording saying right,
Speaker 3: ones and twos? I think so, yeah, I think so
Speaker 3: an old fashioned one. We don't really use ones and
Speaker 3: twos these days.
Speaker 2: The other voice you're hearing is Sophie.
Speaker 1: Hi, Sophie, Hi, you talked to me about the practice
Speaker 1: of hope all the time, and I appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Oh thanks. I just feel like I the last couple
Speaker 2: episodes I've did were dark and long, are complicated.
Speaker 1: Well this one isn't that isn't that way, and it
Speaker 1: talks deeply about the practice of hope and how it
Speaker 1: should be disciplined into our dam and I appreciate that.
Speaker 3: Well, I don't know what we're talking about, but I'm
Speaker 3: already thrilled you invited me because that feels like my
Speaker 3: own existential battle at all times, because I do have
Speaker 3: inherent hope and it's hard, but I appreciate being reminded
Speaker 3: and not having to search for it.
Speaker 1: Yay.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I I've written about hope a lot. Actually it's
Speaker 2: a thing that I try to avoid discourse. But I
Speaker 2: will discourse about hope until the end of my day.
Speaker 2: Is because of the fact that I believe in it anyway,
Speaker 2: but also I believe in Rory our audio engineer, Hi Rory,
Speaker 2: Hi Roy, Hello Rory, And our theme music was written
Speaker 2: forced by old woman. This week's cool people is someone
Speaker 2: you might have heard of, people, humanity.
Speaker 4: People in general.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we're going to in specific context, right okay,
Speaker 2: but we're gonna like, Okay, look, it's easy to get cynical.
Speaker 2: I do it myself. Pretty much everything bad humans have
Speaker 2: done has been done by humans. It's in the name.
Speaker 2: Although we're increasingly entering a stage where I don't think
Speaker 2: that's true. I think that AI is going to do
Speaker 2: some bad stuff for us.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, we're handing it over to them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But this week we are going to talk about
Speaker 2: the natural instinct to help one another out and how
Speaker 2: that seems inextinguishable. Because you ever seen like a disaster movie,
Speaker 2: like anything where anything bad happens, Yes, okay, you know
Speaker 2: how when bad things happen, everyone like runs around and
Speaker 2: kills each other and steals everything, and it's every person
Speaker 2: for themselves, and the best you can hope for is
Speaker 2: people like holding up with their family.
Speaker 4: That's what I've been told, that's the trope.
Speaker 2: As soon as disaster hits, everyone loses their fucking minds
Speaker 2: and turns into the purge and runs around, kills each
Speaker 2: other and loots, but in a bad way. Actually turns
Speaker 2: out most looting as the people trying to feed themselves.
Speaker 2: But you know whatever, hmmm, and everyone holds up in
Speaker 2: a weird American frontiersman, dream homestead to wait things out.
Speaker 2: That's the best you can hope for. That is essentially
Speaker 2: every media depiction of disaster you'll ever see. And you
Speaker 2: know that that's like not what happens at all.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what I thought you might be getting at. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I do, I do know how that's not really what happens.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I have a feeling that everyone secretly, deep
Speaker 2: down also has been in a bad situation where people
Speaker 2: help each other out. And I don't know if there's
Speaker 2: ever been a greater difference between the common media representation
Speaker 2: of an issue and the reality of the issue. Because
Speaker 2: even war, right, which is the other one you could
Speaker 2: come up with, there's a big difference between how media
Speaker 2: depicts it and how it actually is. But for every
Speaker 2: couple of like Hoai, American flags and Eagles battled, everything
Speaker 2: is great movie, you get it all quiet on the
Speaker 2: Western front, you get some like, oh, actually war is horrible.
Speaker 2: But the reason that I say that our capacity to
Speaker 2: help each other out is inextinguishable is because I really
Speaker 2: believe that overall, like when we create things as society,
Speaker 2: we kind of make them true, right, Like if everyone
Speaker 2: convinces themselves of something we all kind of start.
Speaker 4: Doing it absolutely like money.
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, Like oh that's a concept of money.
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: Yet despite overwhelming media representations of everyone freaks out in
Speaker 2: a crisis, that's not what people do. We help each
Speaker 2: other out. Disaster brings us together more times than not.
Speaker 2: It breaks down the social barriers between people.
Speaker 3: It feels like perhaps one of the most innate aspects
Speaker 3: of it. There's lots of innate, but I'm gonna put
Speaker 3: it up there as innate as anything else. We that's
Speaker 3: how we have formed societies and grown and you know communities.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, totally, and like we have these like well'll
Speaker 2: talk about a little later in the script too, but
Speaker 2: it's like we have these ideas that you know, oh,
Speaker 2: we all are just these isolated individuals, and especially America
Speaker 2: is like built on this, right, but it's all a lie.
Speaker 2: Like the Frontiersman was like well, stealing land but also
Speaker 2: like getting subsidies from the government to do it. You know. Yeah.
Speaker 2: The easiest way that I've ever found to explain how
Speaker 2: we've come together in crisis, social barriers break down. Imagine
Speaker 2: waiting for a bus in lots of places in the US,
Speaker 2: if you're waiting for the bus. You don't talk to
Speaker 2: the people who are standing right next to you. The
Speaker 2: social barriers are in place. You might ask the time
Speaker 2: if you're doing this in the nineties before cell phones.
Speaker 2: You might ask for directions if you're doing this in
Speaker 2: the early ots but smartphones. Yeah, but the conversations are
Speaker 2: short and curt right, And this is not universally true
Speaker 2: across all cultures within the United States. But it's a
Speaker 2: thing that happens if the bus is exactly two minutes late,
Speaker 2: Suddenly you're all friends because you have a common problem,
Speaker 2: big or small, common problem. Where's the damn bus? Because
Speaker 2: it's not even a we need each other that brings
Speaker 2: each other together, this minor hardship. And I think the
Speaker 2: trick is that the hardship needs to be shared right,
Speaker 2: one person having a bad time. Unfortunately doesn't always work right.
Speaker 2: People don't like talking to folks on the street who
Speaker 2: are asking for money and help overall. Obviously some people do,
Speaker 2: I hope many of our listeners do. I mean, but
Speaker 2: you know whatever, I like. Also, sometimes we're all busy
Speaker 2: and it's like, no, I don't want to have a
Speaker 2: conversation about something right now, you know, but folks who
Speaker 2: are living on the streets do talk to each other.
Speaker 2: And if you're riding freight trains, which is the weird
Speaker 2: example that I can use because they used write freight trains,
Speaker 2: you talk to other freight riders even if you don't
Speaker 2: trust them, right, Like, that's like a weird, scary, dangerous
Speaker 2: thing where you're all breaking the law and everyone has
Speaker 2: a reputation for being fighty and dangerous, and you still
Speaker 2: all talk to each other because you have a shared hardship. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that is my hypothesis of how this happens. Shared crisis
Speaker 2: brings us together and disaster studies. The title of this
Speaker 2: episode this is called Catastrophe Compassion.
Speaker 4: Hmmm, I'm going to write that down. I like it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I know it's good. And there's a there's
Speaker 2: a bunch of articles that talk about this, well, mostly papers.
Speaker 2: This guy Jamil Zaki wrote a paper called Catastrophe Compassion
Speaker 2: Understanding and Extending pro Sociality under Crisis. That's a word
Speaker 2: I know how to say.
Speaker 4: That is a that's a mouthful sociality.
Speaker 2: I know it doesn't look like it would be, but
Speaker 2: it gets stuck. Yeah, And I'm going to quote from
Speaker 2: that for decades, social scientists have documented two narratives about
Speaker 2: human behavior during crises. The first holds that following disasters,
Speaker 2: individuals one panic, two ignore social order, and three act selfishly.
Speaker 2: This cluster of beliefs characterizes popular media accounts of disaster
Speaker 2: as well as lay forecasts. In one study, members of
Speaker 2: the public generally agreed with statements including when there is
Speaker 2: an emergency, crowd members act selfishly, and when there is
Speaker 2: an emergency, social order breaks down. The second narrative comes
Speaker 2: from historical records. Far from rendering people anti social and savage,
Speaker 2: disasters produce ground swells of pro social behavior and feelings
Speaker 2: of community in their wake. Survivors develop communities of mutual aid,
Speaker 2: engage in widespread acts of altruism, and report a heightened
Speaker 2: sense of solidarity with one another. And one of the
Speaker 2: wildest things about all of this is that people therefore
Speaker 2: miss crisis. Yes, because I mean, one, there's like trauma
Speaker 2: bonding with people, but two, people like being in solidarity
Speaker 2: where you have a sense of purpose, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, they probably feel little lonely after that because
Speaker 3: you're surrounded by people.
Speaker 4: This is just all true.
Speaker 3: I'm just going to share this, Yeah, I'm not sure
Speaker 3: what's the right because this is going to be the
Speaker 3: theme of.
Speaker 4: The episode I see.
Speaker 3: But one of my earliest memories was the eighty nine
Speaker 3: earthquake in San Francisco Bay Area, and it is so
Speaker 3: vibrant in my mind. Every like there's plenty of dark spots,
Speaker 3: but when it hit and what happened and rushing outside
Speaker 3: and my community. I spent the whole afternoon going around
Speaker 3: helping people with my parents. I was very young. I
Speaker 3: wasn't helping. I was mostly cheering people up by trying
Speaker 3: to be cute.
Speaker 2: Yeah that's helpful.
Speaker 3: But my mom had ran her catering company out of
Speaker 3: a retirement home at that point, and so she went
Speaker 3: and checked in on all of the old folks and
Speaker 3: helping our neighbors and there's burst pipes and so we're
Speaker 3: bringing friends what they need. And that has stuck with
Speaker 3: me my whole life, as during a crisis, you go
Speaker 3: and help your neighbor.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we should be doing that all the time, and
Speaker 4: we forget.
Speaker 3: This lesson in my mind, but it's like, now is
Speaker 3: the time when we need each other and we're going
Speaker 3: to show up, and yeah, I do. It's not that
Speaker 3: I want something terrible to happen, but there are times
Speaker 3: in my life where I'm like, I miss that feeling
Speaker 3: of that you're protected and that you are a protector
Speaker 3: at the same time.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but anyway, it's just I keep thinking about that
Speaker 4: as you're speaking so far.
Speaker 2: No, that makes so much sense, and that's exactly the
Speaker 2: kind of stuff we're talking about, and like, yeah, I
Speaker 2: like that phrase that you're a protector and you're protecting
Speaker 2: at the same time, that we are like interwoven instead
Speaker 2: of like, yeah, one of the and I didn't end
Speaker 2: up writing about this in papers and scripts. I'm off script,
Speaker 2: so it's considered anecdotal because the sources for this one
Speaker 2: aren't in the aren't in the notes. But one of
Speaker 2: the things that I talked to one of my friends
Speaker 2: is a therapist and a social worker about how one
Speaker 2: of the main things that defeats PTSD is acting with
Speaker 2: agency in the moment, and so when we create disaster
Speaker 2: responses that incorporate everyone, including the people who are in trouble,
Speaker 2: we reduce the actual amount of suffering caused by the disaster.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I believe that there.
Speaker 2: Is a reverse side of catastrophe compassion. There are people
Speaker 2: who in a crisis, start shooting and act antisocially and
Speaker 2: hold up and ignore everyone else. Those people are the rich, yep,
Speaker 2: and the powerful.
Speaker 3: Gonna say, the people that are most likely, in my
Speaker 3: mind to go there are the people that have othered
Speaker 3: everybody else.
Speaker 2: And they're the people who are the most dramatically invested
Speaker 2: in the previous status quo. And in disaster studies, this
Speaker 2: is called elite panic. This term was coined by Rutgers
Speaker 2: researchers Lee Clark and Karen Chess in a two thousand
Speaker 2: and eight paper. They talk about how the reason that
Speaker 2: policymakers tend to assume that everyone will panic, Like you
Speaker 2: see this all the time in like I watch a
Speaker 2: lot of sci fi shows. I'm sure they do in
Speaker 2: other shows too, right, But they're like, we can't tell
Speaker 2: everyone that the space alien bomb is going to kill everyone,
Speaker 2: because then everyone will panic, So we have to keep
Speaker 2: it hidden, you know, we have to not tell the public.
Speaker 2: And it's like always this like moral compromise that the
Speaker 2: like protagonist who is morally compromised, Like I guess I'm
Speaker 2: gonna have to lie to everyone, and that's what's good.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, you know for everybody.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there is a lot of evidence that proves that
Speaker 2: that is the exact opposite, because if you hide it
Speaker 2: from everyone and then the bad thing happens, then everyone
Speaker 2: freaks out. If you are honest the entire time, people
Speaker 2: handle it, you know, right, And so in this paper
Speaker 2: they talk about how the reason that policy makers tend
Speaker 2: to assume everyone will panic is that assuming everyone will
Speaker 2: panic works out in the policy maker's best interest. This
Speaker 2: makes for poor disaster response, of course, because it's not
Speaker 2: based on truth. Their policies emphasize lying to the public
Speaker 2: to soothe everyone, centralizing resources and prioritizing the prior status
Speaker 2: quo or recognizing how things have changed. And so this
Speaker 2: is like, these are all bad ideas, right, these make
Speaker 2: situations worse. You're the elite, Yeah, so if you centralize
Speaker 2: all the resources, you're like, oh, I have to be
Speaker 2: the one who controls where they go out. You're not
Speaker 2: going to do a very good job of.
Speaker 4: It, exactly.
Speaker 3: And that's just for their interests. Yeah, that puts them
Speaker 3: in a position to at least attempt to maintain control
Speaker 3: throughout the situation.
Speaker 4: It makes sense. It's terrible, but it makes why they
Speaker 4: would think it that way.
Speaker 2: Well, And it's like and as we record this, this
Speaker 2: last week might be a couple weeks ago to you all,
Speaker 2: unless it's happened again. The NYPD has shot and killed
Speaker 2: someone for hopping a turnstall for two dollars and ninety cents, right,
Speaker 2: and then they also shot other people, including another cop
Speaker 2: in the process.
Speaker 4: A cop.
Speaker 2: And realistically, you're not supposed to kill people for stealing, right,
Speaker 2: But if you're the cops, your priority is the continuance
Speaker 2: of governance. It is the it's called COG and various
Speaker 2: government things. You know, this idea that like we need
Speaker 2: to be in charge is the greatest social good, even
Speaker 2: if we have to kill people to do it, even
Speaker 2: if we are basically judged dread acting as the executioner
Speaker 2: in the streets, and so cops are basically always doing
Speaker 2: an elite panic. But in disasters it gets worse. Yeah,
Speaker 2: elite fearing panic actually tends to cause panics. In fall
Speaker 2: two thousand and one, do you remember the anthrax attacks.
Speaker 4: In the mail I mean last from the past, Yeah,
Speaker 4: I do.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I hadn't thought about that, and forever till you
Speaker 3: said those words.
Speaker 2: I know, I hadn't either, until it was like in
Speaker 2: this paper I was reading right, Yeah, you know, there
Speaker 2: was anthrax attacks in the mail and it happened so
Speaker 2: shortly after September eleventh that like no one remembers it
Speaker 2: because like all we remember is September eleventh, you know, but.
Speaker 1: I do now.
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, yeah, there was a period of time
Speaker 3: where that was a thing and then it was a joke.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it scared the shit out of everyone. It
Speaker 2: did cause panic. Clark and Chess, the two researchers, proposed
Speaker 2: that one major reason everyone freaked out was that the
Speaker 2: government didn't tell anyone what the fuck was happening. Right,
Speaker 2: They were afraid of people panicking, so they didn't talk
Speaker 2: to people about what was happening. And they were like, like,
Speaker 2: it was the first pulmonary anthrax poisoning in twenty five
Speaker 2: years in the United States, like period or something, and
Speaker 2: they were like, oh, I think he drank some bad
Speaker 2: water out of a creek in North Carolina, you know. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And so when everyone's being lied to and then they
Speaker 2: find out that something's happening that's different, people start to.
Speaker 4: Panic, yeah, and kind of a roads trust.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, absolutely, Well that just allows for a vacuum
Speaker 3: for people to fill in the blank. Whatever they want
Speaker 3: about what the government or those the powers that be,
Speaker 3: whatever they're doing. It's just yeah, maybe beside the point here,
Speaker 3: but had to say it.
Speaker 2: No, no, it's it's absolutely worth pointing out. You know.
Speaker 2: It's like we're supposed to be able to trust the EPA,
Speaker 2: we're supposed to be able to trust the Department of Health,
Speaker 2: you know, and like right, the CDC. And it's like,
Speaker 2: like I believe in vaccines, like real upfront, absolutely, but
Speaker 2: it's like I understand where vaccine hesitancy comes from because
Speaker 2: I understand why people don't want to trust the government
Speaker 2: because it keeps lying to them.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, Like what do you expect people?
Speaker 3: You know, it's really hard to sift through what you're allowed,
Speaker 3: what you should trust or shouldn't because.
Speaker 4: You know you're stupid for ignoring them, you're bad. But
Speaker 4: also you should have known better than to trust the government.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly. But you know how you can trust
Speaker 2: me to cynically introduce ads because I can't say that
Speaker 2: you can trust these ads because I don't know if
Speaker 2: you can or not.
Speaker 4: We just got to be upfront about that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, listener, discretion is advised. Here they are and we're
Speaker 2: back and of course, the leads themselves often also panic,
Speaker 2: like declaring that looters will be shot on site Katrina,
Speaker 2: which is like, not even it was never the law
Speaker 2: that that's allowed to be done. But they were like,
Speaker 2: we don't care, We're just declaring that, right because of
Speaker 2: this continuance of governance, this panic of you know, and
Speaker 2: you have all these like in Katrina, there are white
Speaker 2: militias going around and shooting people of color, right, and
Speaker 2: it was mostly affluent from like affluent white neighborhoods. But
Speaker 2: we are not focused on elite panic today or this
Speaker 2: week or panic at all. We're focused on cool people
Speaker 2: do cool stuff, like just getting in the worst places
Speaker 2: and helping people out like you and your mom did.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and my dad but mostly my mom fair enough,
Speaker 3: Well I don't know he was around, but my mom's
Speaker 3: the mom memories stands strong in my fay.
Speaker 4: Okay, sorry, I continue.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no offense, Dad, I'm sure you did fine. We
Speaker 2: did a couple episodes a while back about Common Ground,
Speaker 2: which was the disaster relief organization set up in New
Speaker 2: Orleans and the wake of Hurricane Katrina in two thousand
Speaker 2: and five. This is like scrappy activists and anarchists from
Speaker 2: all over the country working with folks based in New Orleans,
Speaker 2: like tying into old Black Panthers and New Orleans and
Speaker 2: all this shit just set up a messy, imperfect, deeply
Speaker 2: impactful and memorable collective to mitigate the worst effects of
Speaker 2: the crisis. How they managed to go where traditional nonprofits
Speaker 2: and government relief agencies were unable to. And there are
Speaker 2: stories from that about like the National Guard accidentally redirecting
Speaker 2: supplies from the Red Cross to a bunch of punk
Speaker 2: kids because the Red Cross was like going to put
Speaker 2: it in wearhouses for two weeks, and the punk kids
Speaker 2: were out in the streets handing.
Speaker 4: It out right as they should be.
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, And the thing that I love about that
Speaker 2: isn't just like the punk kid isn't the only hero
Speaker 2: in that story. The uniformed National guardsman, who is probably
Speaker 2: not supposed to do what they are doing, is also
Speaker 2: one of the heroes there, Which is to say, different
Speaker 2: groups can and will and do work together in times
Speaker 2: of crisis, ignoring all the reasons we're supposed to dislike
Speaker 2: and distrust each other. And there is literally nothing in
Speaker 2: this world that gives me more hope than that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And I think about all the time. Like we were
Speaker 2: talking kind of before we started recording BOHW, like we
Speaker 2: live in a like bonus polarized America right now, right,
Speaker 2: and there are absolutely people who are like extreme right
Speaker 2: and are not to be trusted in any way, in
Speaker 2: any position, right, yeah, But overall, you're like my random
Speaker 2: ass neighbor. We might not agree about some stuff, it's
Speaker 2: probably gonna be fine if we have to like deal
Speaker 2: with some shit together, you.
Speaker 3: Know, absolutely, I honestly living in this community that I live,
Speaker 3: and I live in the mountains for people that don't know, Yeah,
Speaker 3: surrounded by people that a lot of people I agree
Speaker 3: with different shades of agreement, and a lot of people
Speaker 3: like don't they all have my back?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: They have my back, and they're going to bring a
Speaker 3: wide variety of skill sets to the table if if
Speaker 3: I need them, you know, yeah, my random neighbor.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, totally. And I want to give one quick
Speaker 2: anecdote about all this that I've probably done before on
Speaker 2: this show, but it lives in my head, so I
Speaker 2: will say again every now and then, including right now.
Speaker 2: I think as I recorded this, I was like looking
Speaker 2: up floods in eastern North Carolina and I was like,
Speaker 2: which year was that, and it was like current news
Speaker 2: about flooding in eastern North Carolina. Yeah, the eastern shore
Speaker 2: of North Carolina floods terribly in this or that storm,
Speaker 2: and it happens more and more often as climate change
Speaker 2: kicks in. During one of these flood events, I think
Speaker 2: maybe this is twenty sixteen with Hurricane Matthew, could be wrong.
Speaker 2: A bunch of my friends were out there helping doing
Speaker 2: disaster relief, and a coalition between all sorts of unlikely
Speaker 2: folks came together, and so you had these like one
Speaker 2: of my friends is this like scrappy, middle aged anarchist
Speaker 2: who's telling soldiers what to do, like just directing where
Speaker 2: the supplies need to go, because they're like we just
Speaker 2: got here. And my friends like, yep, they got to
Speaker 2: go over there, and like, you know, it's like five
Speaker 2: foot two and yelling at these uh, you know, soldiers
Speaker 2: or whatever. And you also have this moment where okay,
Speaker 2: a lot of the places that needed relief could only
Speaker 2: be reached by plane because flooding made the roads impassable.
Speaker 2: And by the way, if you ever like I'm just
Speaker 2: gonna go do flood relieve don't drive your pickup truck
Speaker 2: into the flood.
Speaker 4: No, no, no, please no. Yeah, you'll make it worse.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because then people got to rescue you because the
Speaker 2: air intake's in the grill. Yeah, and then your engine stops. Ironically,
Speaker 2: electric vehicles, like an electric sedan is better in a
Speaker 2: flood than like a pickup truck. Oh really, I mean
Speaker 2: an electric pickup trub even better. Yeah. Electric vehicles don't
Speaker 2: use air intakes, so they don't have this thing. Sorry
Speaker 2: I could, I won't get into this.
Speaker 4: Look being surprised.
Speaker 2: I know, I was really surprised with this too. I
Speaker 2: saw on this who rabbit hole of it recently, and
Speaker 2: because those videos of you know, when you're sitting around
Speaker 2: watching videos to see what vehicles can drive through what floods,
Speaker 2: and that's one does. Yeah anyway, but you know it
Speaker 2: isn't affected. This isn't an ad transition. You know, it
Speaker 2: doesn't have to worry about roads as fucking planes. Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: so yes, tiny planes would fly supplies in And you
Speaker 2: know who has tiny planes, rich libertarian dudes? Yeah they do,
Speaker 2: and I suppose they like should be in my elite
Speaker 2: panic category. But it's like not always right, not every
Speaker 2: rich libertarian You.
Speaker 4: Feel like they're on the cusp there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but in this case they didn't. This case, they
Speaker 2: were like, hell, yeah, I get to be useful. This
Speaker 2: hobby that I have that is real weird and will
Speaker 2: probably kill me gets to be useful, because I think
Speaker 2: deep down that's all we want.
Speaker 4: Absolutely.
Speaker 2: We don't want to be useful.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, especially if you have a specific piece of gear equipment,
Speaker 3: oh yeah, vehicle like a plane.
Speaker 4: You're like, this is my time to shine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I'm always the one with a knife on
Speaker 2: me at Christmas, and so when people have to open
Speaker 2: the weird blister packages, I'm like, ha ha, yeah, exactly
Speaker 2: which one of my knives do you want? So it
Speaker 2: leads to this moment where one a different one of
Speaker 2: my friends, who's this like crust lord Goblin who rides
Speaker 2: freight trains and fixes bicycles with a you know, huge beer.
Speaker 3: I really want to get it invited to one of
Speaker 3: your parties with all these cool setting friends of yours.
Speaker 2: You should you definitely come. People will be into it,
Speaker 2: come out. Yeah. And so he loads up into this
Speaker 2: tiny plane with a retired libertarian guy and then they
Speaker 2: fly into a storm wild you know, and it's just like,
Speaker 2: and it's one of the scariest moments of my friend's life. Right.
Speaker 2: And they've of course ridden trains and been in riots
Speaker 2: and whatever, you know, but like, yeah, they were like, oh,
Speaker 2: I'm currently flying into a storm because I believe in
Speaker 2: what I'm doing with this, Yeah, libertarian man. And they
Speaker 2: made it safely. They distributed supplies and then they went
Speaker 2: back for more.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that.
Speaker 2: Makes me happy. And even the Department of Homeland Security,
Speaker 2: the last people you would expect to give props to anarchists,
Speaker 2: have had to admit in print that decentralized efforts are
Speaker 2: like really important to disaster relief.
Speaker 3: Yeah, people that are trained in Yeah, decentralized, that's the
Speaker 3: key word here, because when and then you're in the
Speaker 3: midst of a disaster and your normal modes of communication
Speaker 3: or transportation are no longer effective, you have to be
Speaker 3: able to rely on people that have the infrastructure and
Speaker 3: training and just generally know what they're doing, and boots
Speaker 3: on the ground know the area.
Speaker 2: Yep, totally, and just are already there, you know. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And in twenty thirteen, the Department of Homeland Security put
Speaker 2: together a task team and they wrote a report called
Speaker 2: the resilient social network. And it's a case study of
Speaker 2: Occupy Sandy. You heard of Occupy Sandy, No, okay. This
Speaker 2: report focuses on the response to Superstorm Sandy, which in
Speaker 2: twenty twelve just yeah, fucked up New York City and
Speaker 2: New Jersey.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And a bunch of occupy activists came together formed
Speaker 2: Occupy Sandy, which was like, you know, the kind of
Speaker 2: like almost cringey thing, where like in two eleven and
Speaker 2: twenty twelve everyone was like, occupy this, occupy.
Speaker 4: It became the thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they were like, all right, Occupy Sandy, and
Speaker 2: they changed the way that disaster relief works and on
Speaker 2: some level, like are probably why climate change hasn't yet
Speaker 2: been as bad as it could be. Yeah, because climate
Speaker 2: change is getting worse, disasters are getting worse. Both informal
Speaker 2: and formal networks for dealing with crisis and disaster are
Speaker 2: getting more experienced. And a lot of that was learned
Speaker 2: from both sides during Superstorm Sandy.
Speaker 4: That's really incredible.
Speaker 2: The report put it like this. At its peak, it
Speaker 2: Occupied Sandy had grown to an estimated sixty thousand volunteers,
Speaker 2: more than four times the number deployed by the American
Speaker 2: Red Cross. Wow, and they did it with no leaders,
Speaker 2: no bureaucracy, none of that shit. The DHS ignowed that
Speaker 2: quote and they didn't use the word anarchist anywhere in here,
Speaker 2: and I'm annoyed, but anyway, but we know, yeah, and
Speaker 2: I didn't want to spend all my time searching like
Speaker 2: Department of Homeland Security anarchists and on my Google. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's a dicey search. Maybe, yeah, And the DHS acknowledge
Speaker 2: that quote. It is clear from our research that the
Speaker 2: occupy movement complemented the efforts of the official response and
Speaker 2: in some cases filled critical gaps. We can learn lessons
Speaker 2: from Occupy Sandy successes to ensure a ready and resilient nation.
Speaker 2: And it then is like a like long ass report
Speaker 2: just being like, here's everything that can be learned for
Speaker 2: us from what these like scrappy folks did. Sandy did
Speaker 2: nineteen billion dollars in damages and killed forty three people
Speaker 2: in New York City. It is the second most expensive
Speaker 2: storm to ever hit the US, I believe, after Katrina.
Speaker 2: So when that happened, people just got together and did shit.
Speaker 2: They used a wedding registry on Amazon to announce what
Speaker 2: they needed and so people could just buy them what
Speaker 2: they needed. They up relief centers all over the place.
Speaker 2: I think the first two were in churches, and then
Speaker 2: they just kind of spread out everywhere that people needed stuff, right,
Speaker 2: because all these people are suddenly like homeless, vehicleless, without
Speaker 2: places to stay warm, maybe just without power or whatever.
Speaker 2: You know, hot meals available everywhere. To quote New York
Speaker 2: Times from twenty twelve, there is an occupy motor pool
Speaker 2: of borrowed cars and pickup trucks that ferries volunteers to
Speaker 2: ravaged areas, and occupy weathermen sits at his computer and
Speaker 2: issues regular forecasts. Occupy construction teams and medical committees have
Speaker 2: been formed. Wow so fast too, Oh yeah, like less
Speaker 2: than twenty four hours. And I think I think a
Speaker 2: lot of those people were like they're the day of
Speaker 2: like while it was.
Speaker 4: Happening, also probably being affected. Oh yeah, absolutely everything. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah. They coordinated with volunteers from all over the city.
Speaker 2: And the main thing I remember hearing from my friends
Speaker 2: who were doing it is just like the walking up
Speaker 2: endless flights of stairs because the elevators were out, and
Speaker 2: so people would just go door to door to make
Speaker 2: sure everyone had what they needed, Like they'd just like
Speaker 2: go knock on your door and be like you need candles,
Speaker 2: you need flashlights, you need a medications filled Like what
Speaker 2: do you need because like a lot of people didn't
Speaker 2: leave because without an elevator, they can't get out of
Speaker 2: their buildings, you know, depending on your level of fitness.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and like what are you walking out into?
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. It took formal organizations days. Occupy Sandy was
Speaker 2: there within twenty four hours. The local FEMA office. Don't worry,
Speaker 2: they're on it. They saw that weather coming and they
Speaker 2: closed quote do to weather, come on. Yeah. They put
Speaker 2: signs on the door of the office.
Speaker 4: It's believable. It's believable.
Speaker 2: It's like handwritten in surpy.
Speaker 3: Like bite later losers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, exactly, And it would be hilarious if it
Speaker 2: was I mean, it's still hilarious, but if it was
Speaker 2: just an office, it'd be hilarious. But it's also where
Speaker 2: they stored their like mobile warming centers and food distribution
Speaker 2: hub and stuff like that. What the right, So they
Speaker 2: were like, oh, gotta get our warm centers out of here,
Speaker 2: and just drove everything out all six of the FEMA
Speaker 2: centers in New York City, including those that were not
Speaker 2: in harm's way, closed ahead of the store.
Speaker 4: That's absurd.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then the National Guard just packed up and
Speaker 2: left because it was too risky. There's the National guardsman. Meanwhile,
Speaker 2: volunteers at churches just kept handing out food and water.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so Occupy Sandy was informal but not unorganized,
Speaker 2: So it wasn't just like total chaos time, right. It
Speaker 2: was organized. New volunteers were onboarded, people are giving sensitivity
Speaker 2: trainings and like trainings on how to go door to door,
Speaker 2: how to talk to people, and there's just like it
Speaker 2: was all coordinated with like huge numbers of Google sheets
Speaker 2: and like just fucking weird online twenty twelve. Shit. These days,
Speaker 2: the emergent relief organizations are part of disaster planning, right,
Speaker 2: even like FEMA and all those groups. When they're like, okay,
Speaker 2: what's gonna happen in this crisis, They're like, Okay, well, fortunately,
Speaker 2: scrappy people are going to do all the shit we're
Speaker 2: not going to do. Yeah, which is a little bit
Speaker 2: like aggravating, but whatever.
Speaker 3: That is what it is, Yeah, it is what it is.
Speaker 3: It is both aggravating and it is what it is. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Occupy Sandy, as far as I can tell, is
Speaker 2: the first time in the US that the emergent relief
Speaker 2: like the you know, the DIY, Scrappy whatever stuff, coordinated
Speaker 2: actively with the formal relief like Red Cross and you know,
Speaker 2: FEMA and all that stuff. But there was always some
Speaker 2: tension there. One of the co founders of Occupy Sandy,
Speaker 2: Michael Primo, told the website The City quote, these behemoth
Speaker 2: aid organizations play a role within the broader landscape, but
Speaker 2: are ultimately unresponsive to community needs and aren't designed to
Speaker 2: be agile. They aren't designed to communicate long term needs.
Speaker 2: And that's what Occupies Sandy was really trying to do.
Speaker 2: Because there's this like it's interesting because right, it's easy.
Speaker 2: It's not easy. It's very hard. It's easy to show
Speaker 2: up when it's like sexy and cool to go help people,
Speaker 2: like when you're standing in the flood waters. Don't stand
Speaker 2: in floodwaters anyone, Yeah, don't. But the long term work
Speaker 2: of rebuilding is also part of it. Right, So Occupy Sandy,
Speaker 2: I think on some level considers itself still around it.
Speaker 2: I think it overall is like not really, but it
Speaker 2: was like around for a long time, and then it well,
Speaker 2: the same network came together during the early days of
Speaker 2: COVID to get food to people and like to coordinate
Speaker 2: all the different mutual aid groups that were popping up
Speaker 2: in the city once again with like spreadsheets and shit,
Speaker 2: you know, to make sure that everyone knew where everyone
Speaker 2: else was and what they were doing.
Speaker 4: And now we've got Google spreadsheets.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And of course twenty twenty saw the largest
Speaker 2: explosion of mutual aid groups the US has ever seen.
Speaker 2: And yeah, so many people found their way into disaster
Speaker 2: relief as a result of Occupy Sandy, including people who
Speaker 2: like now work in the formal organizations or like I
Speaker 2: worked for a while as a copy editor for a
Speaker 2: friend who specific wrote really lengthy papers. I couldn't find
Speaker 2: them in my hard driving time to do the research,
Speaker 2: but I used to copy it at these papers about
Speaker 2: informal and formal disaster relief organizations and how they work together,
Speaker 2: and like how the strengths and weaknesses of each one
Speaker 2: can help each other. But you know what can help
Speaker 2: everyone is owning medieval weaponry.
Speaker 4: Absolutely. I was hoping you would say that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because it often gets forgotten about in the mix
Speaker 2: you know everyone's talking about it because it's medieval. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: People think that you don't need it.
Speaker 4: They want the new gear.
Speaker 2: I know, I know that you do write like a guisamar.
Speaker 2: I actually don't pronounce this, but I remember, mind, I
Speaker 2: was gonna try and talk about pole arms, but then
Speaker 2: I realized it had to pronounce any of them cause
Speaker 2: they're all French.
Speaker 3: I was just gonna go ahead and pretend like I
Speaker 3: knew what these things are.
Speaker 2: But yeah, there's a bunch of polearms that are new
Speaker 2: fangled compared to like older ones. And I was trying
Speaker 2: to unfangled full arm. Yeah you know they're from like
Speaker 2: the sixteen hundreds instead of the twelve hundred.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but oh that fancy new tech.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so is this This podcast is sponsored by new
Speaker 3: Fangled Pollarms.
Speaker 2: Yeah, new Fangled poll arms for all your fangled poll
Speaker 2: arm needs, just check out. It's also sponsored by the
Speaker 2: nonprofit that will be starting called Give your Friends Medieval Weapons.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it is a vital vital.
Speaker 2: It's a decentralized one, and so it's just up to
Speaker 2: you to give your friends medieval weapons. And we're back.
Speaker 2: Hopefully no other podcasts snuck in, but I mean other ads.
Speaker 2: You ever get to the point of tiredness and overworked
Speaker 2: where nouns just replace each other in your brain.
Speaker 4: Absolutely.
Speaker 3: Sometimes I'll start speaking hoping that I have words to
Speaker 3: finish the sentence and I don't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, that's just called being a podcaster.
Speaker 3: There have been several times I'm talking and I'm blah
Speaker 3: blah blah, and then I'll say and I was hoping
Speaker 3: i'd remember my point, but I don't, so end of sentence.
Speaker 2: Yep, thats just podcast.
Speaker 4: This a little peak behind the curtain, y'all.
Speaker 2: Yeah, h I talk for a living. It's strange.
Speaker 3: Yeah, It's just like there's different sentences and points and
Speaker 3: phrases just kind of wriggling around in there.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I remember when I first started trying to do
Speaker 2: this podcast. I was like, I'm just going to make
Speaker 2: a list of notes and then I'm going to kind
Speaker 2: of free form it. And Sophie was like, you are
Speaker 2: going to write a script and I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: thank God, and.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you're gonna be grateful for it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I didn't yet know how to deviate from a script,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I get the allerb that You're like, I'm
Speaker 3: prepared but in the moment you get lost.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but who doesn't get lost? If there's one mutual
Speaker 2: A disaster relief group, I would point people towards. It's
Speaker 2: the one called mutual A Disaster Relief. This is a
Speaker 2: decentralized national network of semi autonomous working groups. I know
Speaker 2: that's sort of a mouthful, but all those words mean things.
Speaker 2: The national network, all these different working groups get together
Speaker 2: and coordinate and show up where disaster relief is needed,
Speaker 2: and they put on trainings. They have all kinds of
Speaker 2: resources on their website mutual Aid Disaster Relief dot org
Speaker 2: and has information about how to join start your own group.
Speaker 2: Two and I want to read you a bit of
Speaker 2: their r history section. Early in the morning. Are September nineteenth,
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty five, a major earthquake hit off the Pacific
Speaker 2: coast of Michoacan, Mexico City was devastated. At least five
Speaker 2: thousand people lost their lives. Eight hundred thousand people were
Speaker 2: made homeless as soldiers and police largely stood by neighbors,
Speaker 2: fed and sheltered each other, formed cleanup crews and relief brigades.
Speaker 2: These brigadistas, as they were called, dug people out of
Speaker 2: the rubble, and students laid down in front of bulldozers
Speaker 2: so the search for survivors could continue. Demificados as the
Speaker 2: new houseless, were called one housing rights seamstresses after witnessing
Speaker 2: owner salvage machinery. Before people started a women's union, people
Speaker 2: organized collectively in popular assemblies. These experiences led many to
Speaker 2: question why they needed a centralized state that did not
Speaker 2: care for the well being or survival of its people.
Speaker 2: With this understanding, Mexican civil society was awakened.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I did some more digging. This is not where mutual
Speaker 2: aid relief, disaster relief starts, but this is like kind
Speaker 2: of the earlier you know they talk about the blood
Speaker 2: survival programs nineteen eighty five. Okay, mutually disaster reallyf more
Speaker 2: formally is going to start like in the twenty odds,
Speaker 2: after things like Katrina and after some of the Occupy
Speaker 2: Sandy and things like that. I did some more digging
Speaker 2: about that particular research speaking of nouns that don't work
Speaker 2: with each other. I did more digging on that earthquake
Speaker 2: and the response to it. Five thousand is the minimum
Speaker 2: death count anyone has suggested. National Seismological Service suggests as
Speaker 2: forty five thousand people died.
Speaker 4: Wow. Yeah, wow, that's a huge difference.
Speaker 2: I know, I know, and I think the five thousand
Speaker 2: was the ruling government at the time that really wanted
Speaker 2: to downplay it. Yeah, of course, Ugh one of the
Speaker 2: groups that came out of it, and they actually are
Speaker 2: a formal organization now. But this is like a good
Speaker 2: example of how that the line between formal and informal
Speaker 2: like is kind of meaningless in some ways. A group
Speaker 2: of youth got together and started digging tunnels into collapsed
Speaker 2: buildings to rescue people.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, within a week they tunneled into a collapsed hospital
Speaker 2: and then okay, I only found this on one guy's blog.
Speaker 2: I couldn't find another source of it. And it's a
Speaker 2: little bit wild. They found forty three newborn babies in
Speaker 2: the nursery who had gone a week without sustenance and
Speaker 2: were alive. Wow.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Today that group is still around today. They are known
Speaker 2: as the Brigata de Topos de Tulatukum the Mole Brigade
Speaker 2: of Tula Tukum, and they are a professional research organization
Speaker 2: that travels around the world to save people. And they
Speaker 2: they're nonprofit and that they're like stilly, they're traveling on
Speaker 2: their own dime by commercial airlines, so they can't even
Speaker 2: bring much gear or whatever, but they've saved so many
Speaker 2: people's lives. They just go everywhere that people need help,
Speaker 2: and they're just like, all right, we know how to
Speaker 2: dig into buildings. We're gonna do it. Yeah, We're the
Speaker 2: fucking moles.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I really like them.
Speaker 3: I love I mean, it's a horrible story, but yeah,
Speaker 3: also incredible.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I love DIY mutual later really organizations. But
Speaker 2: where I find the most fascinating and kind of as
Speaker 2: I've been talking about, is where they intersect with establish
Speaker 2: larger organizations. Just I mean, I don't necessarily like the
Speaker 2: giant organization, I don't know, whatever, but like I like
Speaker 2: that there's people at all levels trying to do a thing,
Speaker 2: and the scrappy people have the problem of lack of
Speaker 2: institutional power, right, and then the institutional people have the
Speaker 2: problem of institutional right, Yeah, And like the people are
Speaker 2: trying to figure out how to solve that problem because
Speaker 2: there's a role for everyone in disaster relief, although the
Speaker 2: roles of groups like FEMA often seems to be to
Speaker 2: get in everyone's way, even in the way of smaller government.
Speaker 4: Make it worse.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, but we'll get into that even more. There's
Speaker 2: a role for everyone, even it turns out the city
Speaker 2: of Portland, Oregon. Oh, and we'll talk about that on Wednesday.
Speaker 2: That's okay, that's my uh, that's the cliff cliffhanger. Yeah,
Speaker 2: my cliffhangers. I'm going to talk about Portland. It's not
Speaker 2: that it's not I've done better cliffhangers in my life, but.
Speaker 4: The city of Portland, Oregon.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, they're going to break their own rules and
Speaker 2: get in trouble for helping people, which is about all
Speaker 2: I want for governments to do.
Speaker 4: So absolutely, Yeah, okay Portland, I see you. Yeah, awesome.
Speaker 4: I'm excited for that part.
Speaker 2: But if people are excited about what's happening currently in
Speaker 2: the world, do you have any suggestions about where they
Speaker 2: could find news or analysis of news. Maybe with puppets,
Speaker 2: maybe without puppets.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I recently stumbled upon my show, Yeah, the first
Speaker 3: and only news podcast.
Speaker 4: Have you heard of it?
Speaker 3: I run Some More News along with Cody Johnston. We
Speaker 3: have a YouTube channel you can check out. We also
Speaker 3: have a podcast called even more News. Also on our
Speaker 3: YouTube channel. Both shows are available as a podcast that
Speaker 3: you can just listen to or with as a video
Speaker 3: that you can watch, so yeah, you can do that.
Speaker 3: We talk about things happening now, pretty dialed in on
Speaker 3: the election at the moment, makes sense. Yeah, we got puppets,
Speaker 3: we got characters, strange storylines, and a lot of very
Speaker 3: well researched and thought out content.
Speaker 4: So check it out.
Speaker 2: And we were even just talking about it beforehand. It's like,
Speaker 2: you all have fact checkers.
Speaker 4: Oh, yeah, we do.
Speaker 1: We do.
Speaker 4: We try our best.
Speaker 2: A lot of people who are like I get my
Speaker 2: news from YouTube. That's not always a good sign, but
Speaker 2: it's not There are people who do well, I don't know,
Speaker 2: it's DIY, but it's not like CNBC or whatever. You know, No,
Speaker 2: there are people who do it right.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we do our best.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we we have researchers compiling stuff on each topic
Speaker 3: and then it gets fact checked by two different people.
Speaker 3: So every so often something slips through the cracks. But
Speaker 3: you can trust us to correct ourselves when that happens.
Speaker 3: But for the most part, it hasn't happened a long time.
Speaker 2: That's pretty good because yeah, all of us, the best
Speaker 2: we can do is be like we are pretty sure
Speaker 2: that this is what we is true.
Speaker 4: You know, we're doing our very best.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you are listening to this, I might be
Speaker 2: on tour. I might be on tour with The Sapling
Speaker 2: Cage right now, depending on when you're listening to this,
Speaker 2: Although maybe five years from now still be touring with
Speaker 2: that book. That'd be a little bit strange. I'll probably
Speaker 2: be dealing touring with the third book in the trilogy
Speaker 2: of the Daughters of the Empty Throne trilogy. But the
Speaker 2: first book comes out September twenty fourth, twenty twenty four,
Speaker 2: which is in the past, and it's called The Sapling Cage,
Speaker 2: and it is about a young trans witch who has
Speaker 2: to save the world with her friends for everyone who
Speaker 2: is really mad about Harry Potter. Here's another story about
Speaker 2: kids learning magic, only they have spears, because I like spears.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of medieval weapons in this book, a
Speaker 2: lot of medieval weapons. Yeah, that one was definitely brought
Speaker 2: to you by medieval weapons, kind of in a literal way.
Speaker 2: The first time I ever sold a book with an advance,
Speaker 2: like a real advance, like a I mean real advance
Speaker 2: was two grand I immediately bought my first sword.
Speaker 4: It's money well spent, seems like I think so it's
Speaker 4: paying off.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So if you think got anything you want to plug.
Speaker 1: Oh so Weird Little Guys by Molly Conger. Listen to
Speaker 1: Better Offline hosts Red Citron.
Speaker 2: Oh Weird Little Guys is so good.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Have you listened to it, Katie?
Speaker 4: No, but I'm writing it down to remind myself.
Speaker 1: Katie, you'd love it.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I will be listening to it later.
Speaker 1: Listen to A sixteenth Been a Fame Jimmy loftus but
Speaker 1: politics hosted by propaganda Buying the Bastards, opened by Robert Evans.
Speaker 2: I think the filmmaker.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, the ghost of that filmmaker, and it could
Speaker 1: happen here. A daily show. Did I forget anybody?
Speaker 4: I'm so sorry you guys have so much going on?
Speaker 1: I forget? Did I forget anybody?
Speaker 4: I have this?
Speaker 1: I wake up every day going did I give? Did
Speaker 1: I do it?
Speaker 2: Did all of your children get love?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: You're like Aria's little list, but it's different because it's
Speaker 3: people that you love and want to succeed.
Speaker 1: Okay, I just fact checked my own website. I did it, hooray.
Speaker 2: And what we're going to do is take a break
Speaker 2: for a few minutes, and you all are going to
Speaker 2: take a break for like two days, unless you're listening
Speaker 2: to the future, which because you know, take a break
Speaker 2: at all. But we'll talk to you on Wednesday. Bye bye.
Speaker 1: By Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production
Speaker 1: of cool Zone Media. A more podcast some cool Zone Media.
Speaker 1: Visit our website foolzonemedia dot com, or check us out
Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get
Speaker 1: your podcasts.