WEBVTT - Why Has Congress Abandoned Its Duty?  Lanhee Chen Talks to A&G 

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<v Speaker 1>The Armstrong and Getty Show. I got a bunch of

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<v Speaker 1>stuff to talk about coming up. The anti racist stuff

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<v Speaker 1>has really taken off even faster than I feared. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>the conversations anti racism training in government and schools and

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<v Speaker 1>everything across the country really back hard and fast since Tuesday.

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<v Speaker 1>Critical race theory. It is insidious, it is the new racism.

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<v Speaker 1>It will destroy the country. Are we sitting on the

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<v Speaker 1>breaking news or could we go ahead and say it there? Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>the great Hank Aaron has passed, that true home run

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<v Speaker 1>king has passed, and we'll pay loving tribute to him. Uh. Sorry,

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<v Speaker 1>you don't consider no, No, I do not those tiny

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<v Speaker 1>testicles and giantead There's no need to bring his raisins

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<v Speaker 1>into this. I don't think. Oh my gosh, this is

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<v Speaker 1>an embarrassing moment for the show. From that idiocy to uh.

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<v Speaker 1>One of the smartest people we know, Alan Hea Chen,

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<v Speaker 1>David and Diane Stephie fellow in American Public Policy Studies

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<v Speaker 1>at the Uver Institution and host of the most excellent

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<v Speaker 1>podcast Crossing Lines with lon Hea Chen Long He how

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<v Speaker 1>are you, sir, I'm well, good morning, gentlemen. Uh, We're

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<v Speaker 1>glad to have you with us. So the new president

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<v Speaker 1>famously issuing seventeen edicts from on high, one of which

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<v Speaker 1>you're just discussing earlier executive orders fundamentally changing law in

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<v Speaker 1>the United States. How did we get to the point

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<v Speaker 1>where we essentially have a king who writes edicts and

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<v Speaker 1>it changes law. Yeah. I hate it, I really do.

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<v Speaker 1>And I by the way, I hate it whether a

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<v Speaker 1>Republican president does it or a Democratic president. I especially

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<v Speaker 1>hate it when I see some of the stuff that

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<v Speaker 1>was signed into into law via executive order by by

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<v Speaker 1>President Biden a few days ago. I think really when

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<v Speaker 1>it started was presidents felt the need to show that

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<v Speaker 1>they were doing something. They felt the need to to

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<v Speaker 1>be spurred to action, and they couldn't work with Congress.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, Congress has been dysfunctional for many, many years,

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<v Speaker 1>and so they thought, well, why don't I just go

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<v Speaker 1>and do it myself. And so, starting at the very

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<v Speaker 1>end of the George W. Bush administration, through Barack Obama's

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<v Speaker 1>terms in office, through of course Trump's term in office,

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<v Speaker 1>and now Biden's following this trend, you know, presidents just

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<v Speaker 1>decide to kind of go rogue and do their own thing.

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<v Speaker 1>There's actually really there's a really famous Saturday Night Live

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<v Speaker 1>skating You guys haven't seen it, you should look it up. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>That came during the that the Obama administration when Obama

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<v Speaker 1>used executive action to create the Dot up program. This

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<v Speaker 1>program for you know, for the so called dreamers, and

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<v Speaker 1>it's the spoof on the old Schoolhouse Rock video that

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<v Speaker 1>many of us watched the children where they talked about

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<v Speaker 1>how it bill becomes a law. But this spoof is

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<v Speaker 1>basically about executive orders, and the gist of it is,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, instead of all the processes that you learn

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<v Speaker 1>about going to the House, going to the Senate, this

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<v Speaker 1>piece of paper shows up and he says, I basically

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<v Speaker 1>just happened. And that's essentially what executive action is. And

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<v Speaker 1>it's really it's really pernicious because it's circumvents what what

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<v Speaker 1>the founders intended, what our constitution intended, which is to

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<v Speaker 1>have a branch of government, the Congress, that legislation makes laws,

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<v Speaker 1>and another branch of government the executive that executes those laws.

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<v Speaker 1>And executive action in many ways circumvent that constitutional design.

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<v Speaker 1>So you can understand the um what pushes you as

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<v Speaker 1>a president to want to do it? Why is Congress

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<v Speaker 1>abandoned their duty. Why did they give up that power

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<v Speaker 1>and feel free to throw And where are the courts

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<v Speaker 1>in all this? Yeah? Well, the courts step in, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>because what happens is the president gets sued over a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of these executive actions, and so the courts have

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<v Speaker 1>to step in and say what is and what isn't

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<v Speaker 1>you know? The presidents are supposed to use executive orders

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<v Speaker 1>in particular, there's also this other mechanism called presidential memoranda.

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<v Speaker 1>It's basically the same idea. They're really supposed to take

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<v Speaker 1>a piece of law that already exists and if there's

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<v Speaker 1>some element of executing it that they want to do differently,

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<v Speaker 1>that's what executive action is for. So sometimes the court

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<v Speaker 1>step in and say, no, President can't do this too

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<v Speaker 1>much authority, this is not constitutional. Uh. The reason why

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<v Speaker 1>Congress doesn't do anything about it is because Congress is

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<v Speaker 1>incapable many times, because it's so politically deadlocked. There's so

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<v Speaker 1>much polarization within Congress that it's really hard to get

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<v Speaker 1>them to do much of anything sometimes. And it's tough

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<v Speaker 1>because we have big problems that we need them to

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<v Speaker 1>deal with, and they just can't come together. To do it.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, look at how long it took to figure

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<v Speaker 1>out what we were going to do to solve some

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<v Speaker 1>of the economic issues around coronavirus and around the shutdowns.

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<v Speaker 1>And even then they didn't really solve them. They just

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<v Speaker 1>kind of came together and spent more money. It's very

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<v Speaker 1>frustrating to people, But really it's because of Congress's inability

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<v Speaker 1>to do the people's work that presidents, I think, feel like, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>well I'll just step in and I'll do something that's

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<v Speaker 1>extra constitutional. I was kind of hoping our remember when

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<v Speaker 1>Barack Obama was, you know, using his pen and phone

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<v Speaker 1>that you know, various pundits were saying, well, he'll learn

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<v Speaker 1>that these things can be overturned and the next election

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<v Speaker 1>and presidents will learn. But I don't think presidents are

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<v Speaker 1>going to learn any lesson. I mean, you've got a

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<v Speaker 1>chance to do to have what you want done immediately. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>Congress isn't really interested in doing it, and you know

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<v Speaker 1>you've got four to eight years. So I don't think

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<v Speaker 1>presidents are going to learn any lesson about this. No,

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<v Speaker 1>of course not. And the courts are slow, right, it

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't it sometimes that the courts will issue some kind

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<v Speaker 1>of immediate injunction. You may remember during the whole debate

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<v Speaker 1>over the so called Muslim ban at the start of

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<v Speaker 1>the Trump administration, the court did step in and and

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<v Speaker 1>and grant injunctive relief. So they stepped in the way

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<v Speaker 1>of that going into place very quickly. But for the

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<v Speaker 1>most part, courts are slow. It takes time for cases

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<v Speaker 1>to make their way through the judicial system, and so

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<v Speaker 1>presidents just say well why not, you know, and until

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<v Speaker 1>people step up and say I don't vote, or step

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<v Speaker 1>and say look, this is not something that we find acceptable. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>we like it when presidents go out and they do

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<v Speaker 1>what they say they're going to do, but we don't

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<v Speaker 1>like it when they do things that, frankly are beyond

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<v Speaker 1>the scope of the constitution. That's the only time when

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<v Speaker 1>when presidents and when the executive branch is gonna start

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<v Speaker 1>listening and say, okay, well maybe business is the best

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<v Speaker 1>way to get things done here' The thing I'll say, guys,

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<v Speaker 1>is that the problem with executive action is it's so

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<v Speaker 1>easily undone by the next administration. I mean you're seeing

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<v Speaker 1>that already. Yeah, it's amazing. There's there are things that

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<v Speaker 1>that Trump did that on day one, Biden can say no,

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<v Speaker 1>we're not gonna do it that way anymore, and then

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<v Speaker 1>there's no durability of policy. So we end up, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>jerking back and forth between these extremes. It's not good

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<v Speaker 1>for the country and it's just not good for where

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<v Speaker 1>we're all headed. Lon h Chen with the Hoover Institution,

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<v Speaker 1>host of the podcast Crossing Lines with lineha Chan is

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<v Speaker 1>on the line, Uh, that has just uh sucked every

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<v Speaker 1>little bit of hope out of me here. I don't

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<v Speaker 1>know if that was your because as you were talking,

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<v Speaker 1>I was thinking about, Okay, now, how do we rectify that?

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<v Speaker 1>How do we the bipartisan or Congress. I mean, for instance,

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<v Speaker 1>you would think both Republicans and Democrats would resent it

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<v Speaker 1>when a guy on a day completely guts immigration policy

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<v Speaker 1>and reform. I mean, it just changes it fundamentally. You'd

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<v Speaker 1>think Congress would think, hey, that's our jobs, come on,

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<v Speaker 1>but I don't know, they're just too busy fundraising and

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<v Speaker 1>running for re election again. Yeah, well, I think that's

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<v Speaker 1>part of it. And there's a shirts and skins mentality

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<v Speaker 1>to you know. I think when the when the Republicans

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<v Speaker 1>had Trump in office, they were they were not as

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<v Speaker 1>fond of speaking up against executive action, you know, because

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<v Speaker 1>they probably agreed with it. And now in a bunch

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<v Speaker 1>of Democrats won't step up and say we disagree with

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<v Speaker 1>what Bid is doing because they, you know, like what

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<v Speaker 1>he's doing. But all of these members of Congress, every

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<v Speaker 1>time a president exerts executive action in the way that

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<v Speaker 1>we saw Obama do it, the way we saw Trump

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<v Speaker 1>do it, the way we're seeing Biden do it. Every

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<v Speaker 1>time they do that, they are diminishing the power of

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<v Speaker 1>the Congress just a little bit more, and they are

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<v Speaker 1>they're chipping away at what the Congress should be doing,

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<v Speaker 1>which is writing laws and needs to do their job.

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<v Speaker 1>These guys to step up, they need to in some cases.

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<v Speaker 1>Guess they gotta work together, and they've got to come

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<v Speaker 1>up with solutions that can actually pass. Democrats and Republicans together.

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<v Speaker 1>That's what makes it so hard. But if they don't

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<v Speaker 1>do it, guess what Presidents are gonna keep doing what

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<v Speaker 1>they're doing. It's like, you know, it's like a small child.

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<v Speaker 1>If you don't tell a small child, no, don't do that,

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<v Speaker 1>you're gonna get hurt. Or no, they don't do that.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not good for you. They're gonna keep doing it

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<v Speaker 1>until they can get you know, they they keep getting

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<v Speaker 1>away with it. So that's the problem we have. Your

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<v Speaker 1>Congress is like a bunch of small children. I have

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<v Speaker 1>noticed that with the child think yes, indeed without my kids.

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<v Speaker 1>My final question, any thoughts in general about the upcoming

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<v Speaker 1>alleged impeachment that everybody hasn't heard a thousand times before. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>The one thing I keep hearing, by the way, from

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<v Speaker 1>Republicans and Democrats on this is they just wanted over with.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know anybody who wants to spend a long

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<v Speaker 1>time talking about or thinking about this. You know, Donald

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<v Speaker 1>Trump is the former president. Now for those who didn't

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<v Speaker 1>like him, there will be plenty of ways to quote

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<v Speaker 1>hold him accountable. For those who do like him, they

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<v Speaker 1>can keep figuring out how to get his misses and

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<v Speaker 1>to follow him through whatever media channels he sets up.

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<v Speaker 1>I just don't think that there's an appetite at this point.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, we we we have big problems as the country.

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<v Speaker 1>We really do that we've got to get to and

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<v Speaker 1>now we're going to spend whatever two weeks, three weeks,

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<v Speaker 1>whatever it is talking about a former president. I just

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<v Speaker 1>don't think the appetite is there amongst most Americans. No,

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<v Speaker 1>it feels so people watching they just want to move on.

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<v Speaker 1>It feels so irrelevant now and it's just Friday, two

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<v Speaker 1>days later, three days later. Wait, wait until you know,

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<v Speaker 1>a month later, and there will be a number of events,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, domestically and around the globe that have our attention,

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<v Speaker 1>and I just I just can't imagine that anybody's going

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<v Speaker 1>to be interested in at that point. And we will

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<v Speaker 1>move on to those matters. The next conversation we have

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<v Speaker 1>with Lanha Chen I Hope Lani of the Hoover Institution

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<v Speaker 1>and crossing lines with Lanha Chen. Look it up, subscribe

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<v Speaker 1>to it, Lani. It's always great to talk. Thank you,

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you guys on a good weekend. You too. One

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<v Speaker 1>thing I thought about bringing up with him just because

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<v Speaker 1>I heard an interesting podcast conversation about it. Um at

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<v Speaker 1>the risk of too much politics, because I'm trying to

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<v Speaker 1>spend less time talking and thinking and reading about it

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<v Speaker 1>because I think it's healthy. But um, You've got a

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<v Speaker 1>big chunk of the Republican Party that is very very

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<v Speaker 1>Trumpey Trump still has a very high approval rating in

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<v Speaker 1>the Republican Party. Then you got, you know, like the

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<v Speaker 1>Mitt Romney um Lynn Cheney wing. I don't know how

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<v Speaker 1>many of those people are. And Trump talked about forming

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<v Speaker 1>a new party, but there's some belief now that there's

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<v Speaker 1>a bit of a game of chicken of how about

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<v Speaker 1>you form a new party? Mitt Romney and Lynn Chaney.

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<v Speaker 1>You're not happy with the way the Trump version of Republicans.

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<v Speaker 1>How about you form a new party? We're this party

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<v Speaker 1>and both sides feeling that way. You know, Mitt Romney

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<v Speaker 1>Lynn Chaney crowd thinking you, yeah, go form your Patriot

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<v Speaker 1>party around Donald Trump, and the Donald Trump crowds thinking

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<v Speaker 1>not about you go form a new party because both

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<v Speaker 1>parties over the years have gone out of their way

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<v Speaker 1>to put into place a bunch of rules, laws, whatever

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<v Speaker 1>they are, to make it very difficult for a third

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<v Speaker 1>party to ever get a lot of traction. Democrats and

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<v Speaker 1>Republicans work together on this. Yeah, there's great institutional advantage

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<v Speaker 1>to actually being the Republican party. Um, there's all kinds

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<v Speaker 1>of you know, money and uh, an opportunity for being

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<v Speaker 1>on the ballot. Stuff that's just so much easier. An

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<v Speaker 1>enormous infrastructure, Yeah, enormous infrastructure, and so you can see

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<v Speaker 1>why why if there are in numbers way more trumpets

0:11:31.559 --> 0:11:33.640
<v Speaker 1>then there are not. And I think that's it's definitely

0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:35.480
<v Speaker 1>the case in the House based on the vote last

0:11:35.480 --> 0:11:38.920
<v Speaker 1>week as we sit and speak today, Yes, that's true.

0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:40.760
<v Speaker 1>Then that then you can see why they'd say, hey,

0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:46.280
<v Speaker 1>well you go farm your own party. Good luck with that, yea, yeah,

0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:48.959
<v Speaker 1>And I think that game of Chicken is going to

0:11:49.000 --> 0:11:52.000
<v Speaker 1>be interesting to follow over the next however long well,

0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:54.600
<v Speaker 1>at the risk of lightning striking me, and I'd have

0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:59.320
<v Speaker 1>it coming honestly. Two will be a major milestone in

0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:04.319
<v Speaker 1>that question. Who has the reins, who has that support.

0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:09.000
<v Speaker 1>Although there's a tendency in among the jabbering classes of

0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:13.160
<v Speaker 1>which we are apart um to make ground grand pronouncements

0:12:13.160 --> 0:12:15.199
<v Speaker 1>of the way things are going to be going forward,

0:12:15.559 --> 0:12:23.400
<v Speaker 1>when honestly, always, always, always, the fact that the Clintons

0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:25.840
<v Speaker 1>remained on the scene as long as they did, semi

0:12:26.040 --> 0:12:30.920
<v Speaker 1>relevant or or clinging bitterly to relevance was an outlier.

0:12:30.960 --> 0:12:35.360
<v Speaker 1>It's extremely rare these days. So what the political landscape

0:12:35.360 --> 0:12:37.920
<v Speaker 1>looks like in two years, four years place nobody knows.

0:12:38.040 --> 0:12:39.040
<v Speaker 1>Nobody has any idea