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Speaker 1: All right, guys, welcome back to Couch Talks on You

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Speaker 1: Need Therapy. My name is Kat and if you're new,

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Speaker 1: couch Talks is the bonus episode of You Need Therapy

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Speaker 1: where I answer questions that you guys sent to me

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Speaker 1: and if you have a question, you can send it

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Speaker 1: to Catherine at You Need Therapy podcast dot com and

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Speaker 1: then maybe one day it'll pop up on here. Now,

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Speaker 1: before we get into the question, today, we are doing

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Speaker 1: things a little differently, a quick reminder that even though

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Speaker 1: I am a therapist and I'm answering questions, this does

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Speaker 1: not serve or substitute as therapy for anybody just having

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Speaker 1: conversations on here rather than actually doing what therapy is.

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Speaker 1: But you never know, listening to something on here could

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Speaker 1: encourage you to go to therapy, and I'm all for that.

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Speaker 1: So today we have a very special episode of Couch Shocks,

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Speaker 1: because one that has been the works for about twenty years. Um.

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Speaker 1: But we have our producer Houston on with a question.

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Speaker 1: I don't know when this question popped up. It was

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Speaker 1: it after you listen to an episode or is it

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Speaker 1: just in your life this came up? It's just when

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Speaker 1: I was scrolling through Instagram. But this is probably so

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Speaker 1: to three months. I'm every day I'm like, when can

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Speaker 1: you record? And then Houston tells me, and then I'm

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Speaker 1: don't answer him, and then I just asked, well, it's

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Speaker 1: also not fair that you're two hours ahead of me,

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Speaker 1: which I forget. I do forget, so sneak peek for

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Speaker 1: all the all the listeners. I do not live in Nashville. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: where do you live? Tell the people where you live.

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Speaker 1: I live in Spokane, Washington, so pretty much the opposite

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Speaker 1: side of very far away. If you don't know where

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Speaker 1: that is, just say I live in Seattle, which is

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Speaker 1: how far away? Five hours? That's very Whenever he says

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Speaker 1: spoke in Washington, they're like, where's that is that close

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Speaker 1: to Seattle? Yes, but people know that city. Though I've

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Speaker 1: heard of that city, I just don't. I don't know

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Speaker 1: anything about it. Well, there's not much to know. Okay,

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Speaker 1: it's pretty that's what. There's a note. It's prettier than Nahville.

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Speaker 1: So anyway, So Houston sent me this question, and I

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Speaker 1: thought it was really really good and really important and

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about it. So thank you for

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Speaker 1: even thinking of this question, having this question, and thank

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Speaker 1: you for taking time out of your day, which you

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Speaker 1: do a lot, so this means a lot and it's important. Well,

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Speaker 1: thank you for having me, of course, So let's just

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Speaker 1: get into it. Tell the people what you are wondering. Okay.

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Speaker 1: So I was scrolling through Instagram and I follow a

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Speaker 1: YouTuber and his wife on Instagram, they have about twenty

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Speaker 1: million subscribers. It's the account them together. It's not like

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Speaker 1: you follow his wife and then you also follow the YouTuber.

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Speaker 1: Their account is separate. Is him and her separate accounts.

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Speaker 1: But then on YouTube, there one one thing, and so

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Speaker 1: I was scrolling through her account, and she normally promotes

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Speaker 1: fitness and stuff and that she's working out and whatever.

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Speaker 1: Nothing bad there. But then I was scrolling one night

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Speaker 1: and then I see that she is bragging about how

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Speaker 1: she is now on this very fancy diet and going

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Speaker 1: to lose all this weight and his heart already lost

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Speaker 1: a lot of weight because she is only drinking bone broth.

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Speaker 1: And it raised a concern to me because the people

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Speaker 1: that subscribe to them are mostly little kids are or

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Speaker 1: teens or something like that, so the most vulnerable, and

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Speaker 1: they are looked up to like they are they're full

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Speaker 1: on celebrities, and so anybody who looks up to people

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Speaker 1: normally is like, oh, they're using that product. I'll try

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Speaker 1: that out. And I started scrolling through the comments and

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Speaker 1: there are a few other people saying you probably shouldn't

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Speaker 1: be promoting this, And so my question is should I

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Speaker 1: make a comment be like you probably shouldn't be doing this,

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Speaker 1: like think of your fan base and you might be

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Speaker 1: influencing people more than you think you are. Or do

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Speaker 1: I just leave it and let it go? But then

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Speaker 1: if I should say something, how would I say that?

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Speaker 1: What do you even say? So such a good question.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about like this specific situation, and

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Speaker 1: then I want to broaden that out to like even

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Speaker 1: if that was like one of your friends, what would

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Speaker 1: you do? And should you say something? So this seems

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Speaker 1: bigger since they have such an influence, right. I am

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Speaker 1: a big fan of using the term calling somebody in

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Speaker 1: versus calling somebody out, So a lot of times when

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Speaker 1: you see stuff like this, I mean, I'll use like

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Speaker 1: Gwyneth Paltrow put some I'll use the word dumb book

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Speaker 1: out about intuitive fasting or something. And if you read

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Speaker 1: the comments, they were like ruthless and I don't think

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Speaker 1: she cared about them. I don't know her, but I

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Speaker 1: don't think she really cared about them. And part of that,

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Speaker 1: I think is when you are being like called out

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Speaker 1: like that is a very icky feeling, and it then

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Speaker 1: elicits somebody to feel immediately defensive and then defend their

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Speaker 1: behavior rather than hear what you're saying. I don't even

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Speaker 1: want to have a conversation. I'm going to try to

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Speaker 1: convince you that, like, I'm not a bad person, I'm

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Speaker 1: not doing anything wrong. That's the call out culture, where

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Speaker 1: it's like you suck, you're canceled. I can't believe you're

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Speaker 1: doing this. You shouldn't do this, Like do you even

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Speaker 1: know what's blah blah blah. It can sound a million

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Speaker 1: different ways versus like call in, which is where you

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Speaker 1: kindly in in a caring way, in a non threatening way,

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Speaker 1: offer information, like offer somebody a different perspective. Because I

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Speaker 1: believe that most people are good. Most people are good.

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Speaker 1: I don't think that this person probably put this out

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Speaker 1: there negligent wanting to harm people. She probably thinks it's

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Speaker 1: working for her, right, Yeah, you didn't think that either.

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Speaker 1: She probably it sounds like it feels like it's working

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Speaker 1: for her, she's excited about it, she wants to share it,

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Speaker 1: she thinks it's cool. Okay, So what you're doing is

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Speaker 1: by calling somebody in it's hey, I want to offer

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Speaker 1: you another perspective of how I saw this post or

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Speaker 1: how I experienced your post, or what your post brought

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Speaker 1: up for me. So the question about should I say something,

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Speaker 1: I think yes, if you feel like if you want to, yes,

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Speaker 1: there's no reason that you should not say something, especially

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Speaker 1: on a public platform where people are like, that's she's

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Speaker 1: posting this, so she's welcoming feedback, whether or not she

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Speaker 1: actually thinks that or not. So if you want to,

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Speaker 1: if it feels like something that you think is right,

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Speaker 1: then yes, do it. The encouragement would be how would

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Speaker 1: you do it? Calling in versus calling out? And then

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Speaker 1: the other part is when it's somebody like that, like

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Speaker 1: a public figure, you're also doing that with kind of

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Speaker 1: the mindset of like they really might not care, right

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Speaker 1: and they might or they might not see it, so

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Speaker 1: which is more probably the case? Right? And So the

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Speaker 1: question I would ask you or whoever is experiencing this

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Speaker 1: is what's the why behind saying something? Why would you

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Speaker 1: want to say something. It could be a million different

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Speaker 1: reasons if you would ask yourself that, like why would

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Speaker 1: you if you're like, okay, I understand this call out

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Speaker 1: first call in, I can do that. I want to

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Speaker 1: call her in why because I want to change your mind?

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Speaker 1: Because I want to why to let her know that

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Speaker 1: maybe her influence is more powerful than she realizes. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so to give her another perspective with the expectation of

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Speaker 1: what what would be your expectation thinking more about posting

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Speaker 1: that kind of stuff in the future and maybe maybe not. Yeah, so,

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Speaker 1: which is a fine expectation because you're maybe maybe think

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Speaker 1: about it, but maybe not. You are going to think

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Speaker 1: about what's What's a fine expectation. But I always caution

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Speaker 1: people because we can get really wrapped up and this stuff.

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Speaker 1: And I used to get so wrapped up in this

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Speaker 1: where I'm like, I have to tell everybody that's doing

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Speaker 1: these things and I need to change the world that Okay,

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Speaker 1: I need to make sure that my expectations are realistic.

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Speaker 1: Where if this person has first of all, with anybody,

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Speaker 1: I don't have the power to change anybody's mind, So

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Speaker 1: my why can be it would be really nice if

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Speaker 1: they would really hear this and think about it. Also,

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Speaker 1: it's because of my integrity, like to stay inside my integrity.

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Speaker 1: It's when I see something and I see where I

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Speaker 1: can maybe offer some insight that feels right and good

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Speaker 1: for me to do, versus ignore the problem. So I

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Speaker 1: think going into it with realistic expectations is very important.

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Speaker 1: Now that's a little different. If it's like your friend. Yes, right,

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Speaker 1: let's say your friend. You know they're gonna read it,

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Speaker 1: like you know they're going to see it. So how

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Speaker 1: might you approach that if you because this I'm sure

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Speaker 1: happens to I mean, it happens to me. I see

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Speaker 1: people and I'm like, oh, I really don't want you

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Speaker 1: to do that. I think then you would wanna not

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Speaker 1: put them on blast on social media and make the comment.

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Speaker 1: Right you you want to call them or do it

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Speaker 1: in person or something right, depending on the level of relationship, right,

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Speaker 1: that matches. So if it's just like an acquaintance, I

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Speaker 1: might d M them. If it is my best friend,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to drive to her house. If it's a

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Speaker 1: friend that lives across the country, I might call. But

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Speaker 1: that is going to look a little different. But it's

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Speaker 1: the same thing of calling in versus calling out, because

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Speaker 1: when we call out, then they're going to get defensive

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Speaker 1: and then that's not going to really go well. But

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Speaker 1: when I'm calling in, it's like, Hey, I saw this thing,

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Speaker 1: this is what it brought up for me. I wonder

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Speaker 1: if you've ever thought about it this way. And I

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Speaker 1: also want to know more about like your intentions, because

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Speaker 1: I don't want to make assumptions either. So can we

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Speaker 1: just have a conversation about you post let's say there

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Speaker 1: posting bone broth if you have a conversation about this

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Speaker 1: bone broth thing, because I've been learning a lot about

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Speaker 1: it in in in diet culture in general, and it

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Speaker 1: just kind of scared me and I care about you.

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Speaker 1: There's a conversation. Again, there's space for us to be

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Speaker 1: very aware of our expectations because they still might be like,

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Speaker 1: you don't know what you're talking about. My doctor told

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Speaker 1: me that I can do that, Like there might still

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Speaker 1: be that, But again it goes back to like my

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Speaker 1: integrity as a friend. It's very kind and caring for

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Speaker 1: me to speak when I see something rather than just

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Speaker 1: see it, get annoyed and then talk about it with

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Speaker 1: somebody else. So does that answer your question fully? I

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Speaker 1: think so going back to like the celebrities and the

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Speaker 1: influencers doing this, I do think that is a really

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Speaker 1: important that specifically. I don't think I've talked about that.

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Speaker 1: I've talked about how to approach like friends and family members,

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Speaker 1: but how do I approach these Instagram influencers specifically or

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Speaker 1: YouTube or whatever who. On the episode with Nabiha, we

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Speaker 1: talked about how influencers work and how like the fact

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Speaker 1: that they make a living off of kind of being

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Speaker 1: like normal people and kind of being relatable kind of

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Speaker 1: messes with us and that's like a huge responsibility to

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Speaker 1: have as an influencer. And I'm sure, well, I don't

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Speaker 1: know what it's like, but like, I'm sure there's some

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Speaker 1: essence of like, oh, I can't say anything, right There's

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Speaker 1: always going to be something that somebody has a comment about,

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Speaker 1: right when when you have that much power. But at

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Speaker 1: the same time, like we can only know what we know,

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Speaker 1: so it's not like you're telling them your outfit sucks.

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Speaker 1: I just want you to know that your outfit sucks.

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Speaker 1: I don't like that or like I want you to

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Speaker 1: like you're saying, hey, this is scary, this feels harmful.

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Speaker 1: I know, You're probably not feeling or expecting this to

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Speaker 1: be a harmful because I assume that you're a good person,

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Speaker 1: But this is how it felt to me. Boom, So

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Speaker 1: are you gonna go comment? Are you gonna go send

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Speaker 1: this person a message? This was a long time ago.

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Speaker 1: Well so I did. I did comment, okay at that time,

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Speaker 1: but I was trying to find it while you were talking,

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Speaker 1: and I think she might have hold it stop. Do

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Speaker 1: you know are there other comments that are saying stuff

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Speaker 1: about it on there? When I commented, I saw two

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Speaker 1: other comments of people being like, this is kind of

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Speaker 1: like disordered eating. They were Mine was a little longer,

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Speaker 1: and there's were pretty just like a one sentence kind

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Speaker 1: of thing. I wish I could find it. I'm kind

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Speaker 1: of mad. So she has two point seven million followers

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Speaker 1: just on Instagram, so you know there was more than

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Speaker 1: just three comments. I think. You know what is um

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Speaker 1: an interesting perspective that a friend of mine gave me.

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Speaker 1: When I had posted something and I got like feedback

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Speaker 1: that I didn't like, I was like so upset and

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Speaker 1: I was like I'm just turning the comments off, and

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Speaker 1: my friend was like, you don't get to do that.

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Speaker 1: He was like if you are going to put a

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Speaker 1: opinion or perspective, if you're going to put information out

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Speaker 1: somewhere for people to see, that isn't like always factual.

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Speaker 1: It might be your your bective. You have got to

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Speaker 1: be willing to take in both sides of it. And

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Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, I know, I know, I say that

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Speaker 1: all the time. It feels different me, but yeah, but

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Speaker 1: I I took that to heart, and I'm like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're right if somebody says something, unless it's like just

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Speaker 1: really mean, Like if somebody says something really mean, like

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Speaker 1: take it down. But if somebody's just like, hey, I

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Speaker 1: noticed this or I saw this, or I want you

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Speaker 1: to I don't get to only take in the like affirmations.

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Speaker 1: I think that's fair. Now, not everybody is going to

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Speaker 1: adhere to that because it's I mean, it's their Instagram.

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Speaker 1: They can do what they want. But that's scary to

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Speaker 1: take that. See she saw that, and she said, I'm

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Speaker 1: not willing to have this conversation just I mean, they're prerogative.

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Speaker 1: She's not willing to have the conversation. This is kind

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Speaker 1: of a side note, but on the same kind of topic.

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Speaker 1: When I was in college, I became really good friends.

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Speaker 1: And still I am really good friends with a guy

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Speaker 1: and he had a really bad drinking problem and are

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Speaker 1: kind of little friend group. Tried helping him and everything,

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Speaker 1: and he wouldn't you want to go to because I mean,

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Speaker 1: the campus has all sorts of resources. I went to

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Speaker 1: therapy on the campus because somebody drugged me there. In

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Speaker 1: the end, it was very thankful that she did that.

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Speaker 1: But he just wouldn't accept anything that we were saying

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Speaker 1: or what we wanted him to do. And so I

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Speaker 1: eventually said, I'm going to call you out on Instagram,

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Speaker 1: so like your parents don't know about what this is happening.

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Speaker 1: I'm friends with your parents on here, and you're going

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Speaker 1: to be tagged in this, so obviously they're going to

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Speaker 1: see it. And he didn't believe me, and so I

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Speaker 1: ended up posting, and so then what happened. I think

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Speaker 1: it's still on my on my feed. It got him

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Speaker 1: to stop. It worked, and then I said, I'll give

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Speaker 1: you if you can now not drink for six months,

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Speaker 1: I'll buy you tickets to this concert that we really

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Speaker 1: want to both go to, and there's there's your reward

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Speaker 1: at the end. And ever since, this has been years

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Speaker 1: and now he's still perfect. Okay, Okay, so that I'm

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Speaker 1: glad you said that, because what you're also talking about

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Speaker 1: is sometimes when we offer information or feedback or perspective,

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Speaker 1: that's one thing, but if the behavior or whatever is

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Speaker 1: working for them, there's no point for them to stop.

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Speaker 1: So if this woman is like my bone broth life

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Speaker 1: is just helping me live my best life, I don't

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Speaker 1: need this, right, there's no consequence, and she doesn't see

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Speaker 1: the harm she's doing, right, So it's like I can

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Speaker 1: delete these and and just ignore that. So there's no consequence.

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Speaker 1: So there's no reason for me to stop. As human beings,

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Speaker 1: if something's working for us, we're going to keep doing it.

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Speaker 1: So for you, for your friend, it's like, well, what

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Speaker 1: are you gonna do? There's no consequence, Like, there's no consequence.

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Speaker 1: That actually matters to me. They might have consequences, but

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Speaker 1: you're like, yeah, look, I'm gonna give you a consequence.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's important to talk about because I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of times. Now here's the other thing.

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Speaker 1: We can't We can't make people do things if they

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Speaker 1: don't want to do them. We can't make people change

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Speaker 1: if they don't want to change. Like, that's one of

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Speaker 1: the hardest parts of being a therapist is I can

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Speaker 1: want you to change so much, but if you don't

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Speaker 1: want to do it, you're not going to do it.

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Speaker 1: So there's there's that part that is very important to acknowledge.

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Speaker 1: But I think a lot of times when we do

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Speaker 1: have friends that we see are struggling, we're afraid to

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Speaker 1: upset them. We're afraid to hurt their feelings or piss

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Speaker 1: them off across a boundary. But when it comes to

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Speaker 1: this kind of stuff, I'm like, screw the boundaries. Like

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Speaker 1: if I see my friend continuously engaging an abusive relationship,

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Speaker 1: or continuously engaging and eating disorder behaviors, or continuously using

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Speaker 1: drugs or alcohol in a way that is really harmful,

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Speaker 1: like I'm I can't make you stop, but I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: going to have to sit as a good friend, sit

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Speaker 1: with a discomfort of maybe making or doing something that

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Speaker 1: elicits ikey feelings in you. And it's so hard. It's

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Speaker 1: so because that wasn't like fun to post that. No,

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Speaker 1: I didn't want to do that right and I didn't

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Speaker 1: know it would work. Yeah, that's the craziest one. Like

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Speaker 1: that was a shot in the dark, Yeah, which is

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Speaker 1: I think is so cool. I had a friend who

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Speaker 1: had an eating disorder in college, and it's like one

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Speaker 1: of those things where I don't know if this is

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Speaker 1: like your friend, but like everybody's talking about it, We're

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Speaker 1: all talking about it, but nobody's doing anything. And I did.

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Speaker 1: I finally did something, and it wasn't met with kindness,

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Speaker 1: like it was met with like a cold shoulder of

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Speaker 1: like mind your business, I'm fine, and never spoke of

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Speaker 1: it again. We went to different schools, so I didn't

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Speaker 1: see her that often, but years later she reached out

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Speaker 1: to me and was like, one, I want to say

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Speaker 1: sorry and to thank you. You're the only person that

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Speaker 1: said anything to me. And sometimes all it takes is

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Speaker 1: one person. And I think that's this like space of

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Speaker 1: like this goes into the whole conversation of having the

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Speaker 1: courage to do the thing that you would want somebody

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Speaker 1: to do for you. Right if I was posting something

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Speaker 1: really like harmful on Instagram, like please tell me now

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Speaker 1: you can DM me or text me. You don't have

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Speaker 1: to comment, but like do the thing that you would

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Speaker 1: want something some need to do for you, because I

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Speaker 1: don't want to harm anybody or if I was acting

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Speaker 1: out in my eating disorder and my best friends saw it,

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Speaker 1: I would want her to tell me. I might be

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Speaker 1: like pissed, I might be like mind your business, but

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Speaker 1: I also want them to tell me, like I want

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Speaker 1: my people to show up. And so having the courage

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Speaker 1: to do the uncomfortable thing, I think is is really important.

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Speaker 1: Not everybody's willing to do that. So look at you

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Speaker 1: commenting and posting, changing the world asking the question, yeah,

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Speaker 1: all we need? So I think that that was. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I loved answering this question. And if anybody has like specifics,

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Speaker 1: I wonder, like things that they've seen where they felt

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Speaker 1: like they didn't have the space to say something on

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Speaker 1: Instagram or something along those lines, send that to us,

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Speaker 1: because I would. I'm assuming that we're all seeing stuff

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Speaker 1: like this, and especially these days. Yeah, and what Instagram

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Speaker 1: does is it gives us a lot of information action,

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Speaker 1: but it also gives us power to use our voice

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Speaker 1: in a different way. So there's something cool in that.

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Speaker 1: I think. Anything else on that final words, anything you

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Speaker 1: just want to say to the people, Uh, hi people,

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Speaker 1: No I got nothing. They probably appreciate that. Um okay,

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Speaker 1: Well that wraps up this episode. Of couch Talks again

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Speaker 1: if you have questions, or again if you have experiences

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Speaker 1: like Houston Hat and you want to share it, you

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Speaker 1: can send it to Catherine at You Need Therapy podcast

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Speaker 1: dot com And uh yeah, thanks for being here. Have

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Speaker 1: the day, the week, the hour you need to have

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Speaker 1: and I will talk to you guys on Monday