WEBVTT - The River of Hate [4] 0:00:02.440 --> 0:00:05.840 The Butcher of Moss is released weekly absolutely free, but 0:00:05.920 --> 0:00:09.000 you can binge the entire season now with iHeart True 0:00:09.000 --> 0:00:13.160 Crime Plus exclusively on Apple Podcasts. You'll also get ad 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:16.680 free listening and exclusive bonus episodes. So head to Apple 0:00:16.760 --> 0:00:23.960 Podcasts search iHeart True Crime Plus and subscribe today. 0:00:27.320 --> 0:00:30.320 The views and opinions expressing this podcast are solely those 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:33.560 of the podcast author or individuals participating in the podcast, 0:00:33.840 --> 0:00:37.320 and do not represent those of iHeartMedia, Tenderfoot TV, or 0:00:37.360 --> 0:00:41.519 their employees. This podcast also contains subject matter which may 0:00:41.520 --> 0:00:44.920 not be suitable for everyone. Listener discretion is advised. 0:01:03.080 --> 0:01:07.600 It's one pm on April twelfth, twenty twenty five. I 0:01:07.640 --> 0:01:11.119 traveled halfway across Belgium and then made a beeline south 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:13.840 to make it to where I am today, in an 0:01:13.840 --> 0:01:18.360 abandoned field next to a highway, looking for proof that 0:01:18.400 --> 0:01:22.959 could be critical to this case. The woman I'm with 0:01:23.360 --> 0:01:26.720 has information that could alter the trajectory of our investigation, 0:01:27.560 --> 0:01:29.720 but I need to make sure she's telling the truth. 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:33.480 This isn't a lead that I can verify online or 0:01:33.520 --> 0:01:36.520 ask a journalist to confirm, because her story has never 0:01:36.560 --> 0:01:40.880 been made public. We're looking for a concrete slab somewhere 0:01:40.920 --> 0:01:44.759 in this mess of wasteland near Moss. If I can 0:01:44.800 --> 0:01:47.280 find it, it will prove that what she's telling me 0:01:47.400 --> 0:01:50.160 is true, that she really did live here back in 0:01:50.240 --> 0:01:53.960 nineteen ninety six. A bunch of shit here. We've got 0:01:54.000 --> 0:01:59.440 an old couch and a bunch of old cans and 0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:05.040 toy and junk that must be left over. She told 0:02:05.080 --> 0:02:07.000 me that her DNA was found in one of the 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:09.640 trash bags full of body parts of victims of the 0:02:09.639 --> 0:02:14.119 butcher of mass Police contacted her in twenty twenty three 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:17.040 to take her DNA sample to confirm, but she never 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:21.160 heard back about the results. She says she lived here 0:02:21.320 --> 0:02:24.760 in nineteen ninety six with a community of traveling people, 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:28.480 and that her caravan sat on top of a concrete 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:31.880 slab that we should still be able to find. Ah 0:02:31.960 --> 0:02:36.680 Jeitrveadalal Betton. She was telling me to look for a 0:02:36.720 --> 0:02:42.639 piece of concrete foundation. So now I'm standing on this 0:02:42.760 --> 0:02:49.000 concrete foundation. It's kind of remnants of a place where 0:02:49.760 --> 0:02:52.760 traveling people or gypsies I guess they were called at 0:02:52.800 --> 0:02:59.440 the time, had lived. Wondering if ever, whoever the killer 0:02:59.600 --> 0:03:08.160 was have been based here because the hair was found. 0:03:18.000 --> 0:03:24.200 I can't be mysterious. 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:29.079 They disappearance of a woman from Mont Jacqueline. 0:03:31.000 --> 0:03:34.920 The condition of the victims was sickening, and the question remains, 0:03:35.240 --> 0:03:36.280 where is the killer? 0:03:44.080 --> 0:03:48.400 From Tenderfoot TV and iHeart podcasts, I'm Your Host Matt 0:03:48.440 --> 0:03:52.520 Graves and This is La manstre Season two, The Butcher 0:03:52.800 --> 0:03:59.200 of Moss, The improbable circumstances that led me to be 0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:02.520 searching for a concrete slab and a forgotten meadow near 0:04:02.600 --> 0:04:06.000 Moss are still playing out. It started with a vague 0:04:06.080 --> 0:04:09.000 rumor on Facebook that a woman had been contacted by 0:04:09.040 --> 0:04:12.040 police to test her DNA in relation to the Butcher 0:04:12.080 --> 0:04:16.800 of Mals case. Other journalists and armchair sleuths on various 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:20.000 forums that speculated about it, but no one was able 0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:23.600 to validate the story. It seemed to be just another 0:04:23.720 --> 0:04:28.040 unsubstantiated rumor to add to a long list. The sheer 0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:31.320 number of rabbit holes in this case is astounding, and 0:04:31.400 --> 0:04:34.239 one of the primary challenges for a cold case team 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:37.839 is sifting through it all to separate valuable leads from 0:04:37.880 --> 0:04:43.480 distracting noise. The investigative journalist Frederic lou pounded the pavement 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:46.640 to try to find a person behind this story. He 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:48.880 was able to make a connection that led him to 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:51.880 another connection and then led him to a woman will 0:04:51.920 --> 0:05:05.880 call Giselle Hope. I've just made a long drive to 0:05:05.960 --> 0:05:08.080 the east of Belgium to pick her up and drive 0:05:08.160 --> 0:05:11.080 down to Moss where she lived in nineteen ninety six. 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:15.800 Giselle doesn't have a driver's license. She lives in social 0:05:15.839 --> 0:05:19.640 housing and as you hear, her life hasn't been easy. 0:05:19.920 --> 0:05:24.680 I have two older sons, the bod drug addicts. My 0:05:24.800 --> 0:05:27.240 forty one year old son is also a drug dealer, 0:05:27.400 --> 0:05:31.640 and he got busted by the NACO units. It was 0:05:31.680 --> 0:05:34.880 bound to happen, and he was detained, and I suppose 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:37.960 that at that time they took a DNA sample from him. 0:05:40.200 --> 0:05:43.120 Her son, who was arrested, had also been involved in 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:46.400 a shooting, which most likely triggered the retention of his DNA, 0:05:46.720 --> 0:05:49.640 which was entered into the national database, and in twenty 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:56.480 twenty three, his DNA triggered a potential familial match, and. 0:05:56.440 --> 0:05:58.920 From my son's DNA they concluded that there was a 0:05:58.960 --> 0:06:02.520 partial female. 0:06:04.839 --> 0:06:09.479 Investigators contacted Giselle because they believed an unknown DNA profile 0:06:09.600 --> 0:06:12.280 identified from the contents of one of the trash bags 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:16.000 full of body parts could be hers. She told us 0:06:16.000 --> 0:06:19.000 that in nineteen ninety six she was living near Moss 0:06:19.000 --> 0:06:22.520 with a group of traveling people often referred to as gypsies, 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:26.360 in an encampment just outside of the city. At this point, 0:06:26.440 --> 0:06:29.760 I mostly believe Gizette, but I feel it's necessary to 0:06:29.800 --> 0:06:32.160 actually see the place where she says she was living 0:06:32.200 --> 0:06:35.000 at the time. If it does turn out that her 0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:38.040 DNA was indeed in one of the trash bags, it 0:06:38.040 --> 0:06:40.159 could mean that she had been in contact with a 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:42.640 killer or one of the victims around the time of 0:06:42.680 --> 0:06:46.760 the murders. Gizette isn't a traveling person herself, but through 0:06:46.800 --> 0:06:49.920 a long, complicated story, she found herself living with a 0:06:49.960 --> 0:06:54.120 group of travelers just outside of Moss. Apparently the encampment 0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:56.839 is long since gone, but she agreed to show me 0:06:56.880 --> 0:06:57.400 where it was. 0:06:57.360 --> 0:07:02.479 Located advance, and they had made an extension on a 0:07:02.520 --> 0:07:06.080 concrete slab for a kitchen and bathroom. That's how I'm 0:07:06.120 --> 0:07:11.000 sure I can still find it. 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:20.160 Frederic joined us near Mass and after a lot of searching, 0:07:20.440 --> 0:07:32.160 we found the field and located this concrete slab. So 0:07:32.320 --> 0:07:35.680 now I'm standing on this concrete foundation and this is 0:07:35.720 --> 0:07:40.920 where Joe was living. I'm gonna ask her to try 0:07:40.960 --> 0:07:47.040 to explain. Don't you see well, the three of us 0:07:47.240 --> 0:07:49.960 stand in the middle of this abandoned encampment next to 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:52.920 the highway. Jessel explains it. 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:56.120 Was in ninety six. The godfather of my son was 0:07:56.160 --> 0:07:57.320 a traveler. 0:07:57.800 --> 0:07:59.960 A gypsy. 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:02.880 At the time, I was living alone in a run 0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:05.400 down house with my four children, and when he saw 0:08:05.440 --> 0:08:08.480 our condition, he said it was untenable and that he'd 0:08:08.520 --> 0:08:12.960 get me a caravan and I could come live with them. 0:08:15.760 --> 0:08:18.200 Here on the left side is where the family with 0:08:18.240 --> 0:08:23.200 whom I was staying lived, and here on the other 0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:26.600 side there were other travelers, but they didn't get along. 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:30.679 There were often fights and even gunshots. The two clans 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:31.680 didn't get along. 0:08:31.720 --> 0:08:36.560 You know, they don't woo You don't hundred mm. 0:08:36.880 --> 0:08:39.200 I asked her how it played out when police called 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:42.840 her twenty seven years later about her Dnamtelu. 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:45.880 The police called me and said that they wanted to 0:08:45.960 --> 0:08:47.559 do a DNA test. 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:50.240 And didn't ask also. 0:08:49.920 --> 0:08:53.480 Because a hair containing my DNA would have been found 0:08:53.520 --> 0:08:55.440 in one of the trash bags, and that the DNA 0:08:55.600 --> 0:08:58.440 led them to me after having analyzed my son's DNA, 0:08:58.640 --> 0:09:05.080 who was in prison at the time, but that it 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:07.600 was a feminine profile. 0:09:10.200 --> 0:09:15.560 Frederic asked her if she knew any of the victims. 0:09:15.920 --> 0:09:16.000 No. 0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:19.240 The investigators showed me their pictures and I looked at 0:09:19.240 --> 0:09:24.480 them very closely, but didn't recognize any of them. 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:28.080 So police must have detected an unknown DNA profile from 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:30.560 a strand of hair found in one of the gruesome 0:09:30.600 --> 0:09:33.600 trash bags, which triggered a partial match on her son, 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:36.520 but given the profile, it led them to believe that 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:39.679 it would have come from his mother, Giesel. It's still 0:09:39.760 --> 0:09:43.440 unclear why police never contacted Gisel about the outcome of 0:09:43.480 --> 0:09:47.480 her DNA test. We're actively following up to get the results. 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:51.400 The practical consequences of a DNA match could mean one 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:54.880 of many things. It could have been a random coincidence. 0:09:56.080 --> 0:09:59.480 She could have been in contact with a victim, or 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:02.240 she could have been in contact with a killer, or, 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:19.840 in a more troubling scenario, possibly even involved with the crimes. 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:26.800 It was the evening of July twentieth. Martin was my 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:31.280 last client of the day. She came in between six 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:36.520 fifty and seven. I remember that she was very well 0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:37.680 dressed that evening. 0:10:39.160 --> 0:10:43.120 In nineteen ninety six, edoard Campus was a hairdresser in 0:10:43.160 --> 0:10:45.640 the Center of Moss, just up the road from the 0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:49.720 train station. One of his regular customers was a woman 0:10:49.800 --> 0:10:51.840 named Martin Bone. 0:10:52.120 --> 0:10:56.760 Martin Bone was one of my most loyal customers. She 0:10:56.960 --> 0:11:00.440 was a beautiful woman who dressed well, not too centric 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:05.400 or to Volga, but she was definitely a handful. Her 0:11:05.520 --> 0:11:09.760 character was after a while. You had to take her 0:11:09.800 --> 0:11:14.640 as she came on that evening, she had made an appointment. 0:11:17.360 --> 0:11:20.800 On the evening of July twentieth, Martin took the last 0:11:20.800 --> 0:11:23.560 appointment of the day to have her hair done by Edoar, 0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:29.360 her hairdresser and confidant. She always looked forward to spending 0:11:29.400 --> 0:11:32.640 time at the salon, catching up on gossip and sharing 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:36.360 the latest updates about her eventful life, all while being 0:11:36.440 --> 0:11:37.679 pampered by Edoar. 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:46.319 She told me that she was invited to a friend's 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:50.960 dinner party that evening. She was in good spirits and 0:11:51.360 --> 0:11:57.480 happy to be invited. She had dressed up for the party, 0:11:57.520 --> 0:12:04.360 and her mood was very relaxed. I didn't notice anything 0:12:04.480 --> 0:12:11.480 off at all. She didn't seem bothered about anything. Not 0:12:11.720 --> 0:12:14.200 at any moment did she mention to me that she 0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:17.920 was afraid of anything or anyone who might hurt her. 0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:20.440 Not that evening or anytime. 0:12:20.559 --> 0:12:25.480 Ever, that was the last time Edoard ever saw his 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:31.240 friend and client Martin Bone. On the next day, she 0:12:31.320 --> 0:12:34.320 went missing from the center of mass and was never 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:59.360 seen alive again. July twenty first is Belgian Independence Day, 0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:05.600 day of national celebration full of festivity, parties, concerts and fireworks. 0:13:06.400 --> 0:13:11.160 This was the day Martin Bone vanished. As Edward explained, 0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:13.760 she seemed to be in good spirits one day earlier, 0:13:14.400 --> 0:13:16.640 but that hadn't always been the case with Martin. 0:13:18.440 --> 0:13:21.760 I think she arrived in months when she was much younger. 0:13:22.440 --> 0:13:26.800 If my memory served me correctly, she was very pretty. 0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:30.080 If you walked by her on the street, you wouldn't 0:13:30.120 --> 0:13:32.640 have thought for a minute that she was involved with 0:13:32.960 --> 0:13:38.120 a prostitution. The sad thing is that she had a 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:43.240 very bad accident that changed her a lot. After the accident, 0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:48.840 she wasn't the same person, neither physically nor mentally. She 0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:52.680 had highs and she had lulls, and her laws could 0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:54.000 be really low. 0:13:55.600 --> 0:13:58.840 Martin was originally from France, but ended up living in 0:13:58.960 --> 0:14:02.359 Mons as a young woman, working in bars and eventually 0:14:02.400 --> 0:14:06.959 becoming a sex worker. Her life was completely changed by 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:10.440 a car accident that left both mental and physical scars. 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:15.000 A financial settlement following the accident gave her some financial relief, 0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:19.080 but she kept some private clients on the side. At 0:14:19.080 --> 0:14:21.680 the time of her disappearance, she was staying in a 0:14:21.760 --> 0:14:26.000 hotel called the Liedo, about a fifteen minute walk from 0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:29.520 the train station. On the evening of July twenty first, 0:14:29.680 --> 0:14:33.600 nineteen ninety six, she was last seen exiting the hotel 0:14:33.720 --> 0:14:37.520 Lido by foot. Still to this day, we don't know 0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:39.720 if she had a rendezvous with a client that night 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:41.800 or if she was just heading out on her own. 0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:49.560 It was a warm evening with no rain. She would 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:53.200 have walked into Archer Street, surely heading south towards the center. 0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:57.800 Bars and cafes would have had their windows open and 0:14:57.880 --> 0:15:01.200 tables outside full of revelers and joining the summer weather. 0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:06.920 One thing we know for sure is that at some 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:10.640 point that evening she came face to face with her killer. 0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:22.120 Four days later, on July twenty fifth, nineteen ninety six, 0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:26.360 the beautiful weather had turned and the more familiar low 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:29.320 cloud cover and drizzle had taken over the skies of 0:15:29.360 --> 0:15:33.800 southern Belgium. A light mist formed around the banks of 0:15:33.840 --> 0:15:37.240 the River of Hate that winds through Mons eastward towards 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:42.720 the border of France. A local was walking his dog 0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:45.440 along the river bank when he noticed something floating in 0:15:45.520 --> 0:15:52.320 the water. It was a human torso. Had the water 0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:55.640 levels been higher, it would have certainly float further down 0:15:55.640 --> 0:15:59.400 the river, perhaps into neighboring France, but it was stuck 0:15:59.440 --> 0:16:04.480 in a shallow eddie. It was a female torso. The 0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:07.640 head and limbs had been amputated with a sharp instrument, 0:16:08.520 --> 0:16:12.520 and the breasts had been removed. The torso would later 0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:17.520 be identified as belonging to Martin Boone. It's believed that 0:16:17.600 --> 0:16:20.480 she was murdered at some point between July twenty first 0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:25.120 and twenty second, nineteen ninety six. This was before the 0:16:25.160 --> 0:16:28.960 disappearances of Jacqueline Leclaire and Natalie go Dard and the 0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:34.640 subsequent gruesome discoveries of human remains and trash bags. Sadly, 0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:38.840 Martin's disappearance wasn't investigated as rigorously as the other murders 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:42.040 because she was a known sex worker at the time. 0:16:42.360 --> 0:16:44.760 She was also the lone discovery, so there were no 0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:47.600 dots to connect with other murders fitting the killer's mo 0:16:48.480 --> 0:16:52.280 You'll recall that in nineteen ninety seven, investigators had previously 0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:55.360 identified two of the victims in a series of gruesome 0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:58.840 discoveries of trash bags filled with human body parts, but 0:16:58.920 --> 0:17:03.120 they were struggling to identify the third victim. The investigative 0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:06.000 journalist Frederick Law explains, at. 0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:10.800 The time they already identified Jacqueline Leclair Natalie Goddard, and 0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:17.160 now they identified Martin Bone because they found a torso. 0:17:17.480 --> 0:17:22.280 A few months before, they found a torso in the 0:17:22.400 --> 0:17:28.520 river line. But this torso was not already connected to 0:17:28.680 --> 0:17:34.080 the other victims. But now it's done, so things are 0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:40.240 becoming clear about the connection between those three victims and 0:17:40.359 --> 0:17:44.239 the way they have been killed. The whole image was 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:50.120 really dark, and now with three victims, it confirms that 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:51.800 we have a serial killer. 0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:55.359 As a story developed, the press created a name for 0:17:55.440 --> 0:17:59.840 the elusive serial killer who was terrorizing Moss. In French, 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:03.480 they called him Le de pesssur, which technically means the 0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:07.960 slicer or dismember, but the most common translation is simply 0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:11.760 the butcher. Thus was born. The name still referred to 0:18:11.760 --> 0:18:17.280 today La depassur the mass the butcher of mass Le. 0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:21.119 It is now certain that the Butcher of Mons has 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:25.439 killed three victims. The first is Martin Bone, who disappeared 0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:29.119 in July of nineteen ninety six. Her mutilated torso was 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:31.359 found in the River of Hate. A few weeks later, 0:18:32.000 --> 0:18:34.080 more of her body parts were found in the recent 0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:38.520 discovery of the twenty second of March. It's also certain 0:18:38.560 --> 0:18:42.560 that the trash bags recently discovered were deposited at different times. 0:18:42.880 --> 0:18:45.959 The remains of martin bone were undoubtedly there for several 0:18:46.000 --> 0:18:46.800 months already. 0:18:47.520 --> 0:18:52.000 Upon re examining martin Bon's torso, investigators established that the 0:18:52.000 --> 0:18:55.080 instrument used to dismember her body was similar to the 0:18:55.119 --> 0:19:00.480 other victims, most likely a regular handsaw, just like Jacquelinini. 0:19:00.880 --> 0:19:04.320 Martin was known to frequent establishments near the train station, 0:19:04.800 --> 0:19:08.919 and specifically the hotel Le Metropol, which seems to be 0:19:09.000 --> 0:19:13.600 ground zero for the butcher of Mans's hunting ground. Madame Gosh, 0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:16.359 the honor of La Metropol, who you heard from in 0:19:16.440 --> 0:19:18.920 previous episodes, knew Martin well. 0:19:21.320 --> 0:19:24.359 Martin came to Belgium and she worked in bars left 0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:28.600 and right and right and left. She was very clever, 0:19:29.359 --> 0:19:31.639 and it's for that reason that I say that the 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:35.080 idea of Martin letting someone she didn't know take her 0:19:35.160 --> 0:19:40.760 away is impossible. And her mother would come from time 0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:42.960 to time to visit her and they would stay here 0:19:43.000 --> 0:19:50.040 in my hotel and everything was fine. But she had 0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:53.960 a bad accident and she won a settlement. So we 0:19:54.040 --> 0:19:57.359 thought that because Martin had money, that she'd been killed 0:19:57.400 --> 0:20:00.240 by someone who wanted her money. 0:20:01.000 --> 0:20:04.879 At the time, investigators as well as Martin's friends, thought 0:20:04.880 --> 0:20:07.120 that her murder must have been related to her activities 0:20:07.160 --> 0:20:10.560 in the nightclub scene or something tied to her financial settlement. 0:20:11.280 --> 0:20:14.600 But after the discoveries of body parts, in realization that 0:20:14.720 --> 0:20:18.080 a serial killer was on the loose, her friends began 0:20:18.160 --> 0:20:20.639 to think that Martin could also be a victim of 0:20:20.680 --> 0:20:24.480 the Butcher of Moss. Madame Gange had a mutual friend 0:20:24.520 --> 0:20:27.240 with Martin and they spoke about this possibility. 0:20:28.040 --> 0:20:30.960 One morning, this friend came to see me and said, 0:20:31.400 --> 0:20:34.480 I'm going to the police, and she said, I want 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:38.560 to know if it's her. She went to the police 0:20:38.960 --> 0:20:41.159 and that afternoon she came back to see me and 0:20:41.200 --> 0:20:49.320 she said it's her. She said, I know Martin's body. Martin, 0:20:49.560 --> 0:20:51.640 she didn't have her arms or legs. It was only 0:20:51.680 --> 0:20:54.680 her torso and she said, I saw it was her. 0:20:55.200 --> 0:20:57.520 I saw her tattoo on her shoulder. 0:20:58.560 --> 0:21:02.399 When Madame Gange learned that Martin had been killed. She 0:21:02.480 --> 0:21:05.080 recalled having seen her on the day of her disappearance. 0:21:08.520 --> 0:21:09.280 Of Martin. 0:21:12.240 --> 0:21:14.720 The last time I saw Martine she was with three 0:21:14.760 --> 0:21:17.560 men on a Sunday morning, the twenty first of July, 0:21:18.640 --> 0:21:20.440 and she came to have a drink here with these 0:21:20.480 --> 0:21:26.960 three men. Kiss could you see? And I said, Martin, 0:21:27.840 --> 0:21:29.800 what are you doing at nine in the morning, all 0:21:29.880 --> 0:21:33.840 dressed up and pretty. She was wearing a black silk robe. 0:21:35.119 --> 0:21:37.560 She had gone to the same hairdresser. We both went. 0:21:37.440 --> 0:21:44.760 To El d Mont. 0:21:43.480 --> 0:21:46.760 And on Sunday she was here with three men who 0:21:46.880 --> 0:21:51.320 I didn't know it was the twenty first of July 0:21:51.520 --> 0:21:53.960 because I had the habit of putting yellow flowers on 0:21:54.000 --> 0:21:59.240 the tables every Sunday morning. She sat at a table 0:21:59.640 --> 0:22:03.200 and I parted discussing with the men and ordered four beers, 0:22:05.240 --> 0:22:07.880 and I served them the beers and I said, Martin, 0:22:08.000 --> 0:22:09.960 what's going on? Why are you all dressed up on 0:22:10.000 --> 0:22:14.000 a Sunday morning? And she winked and said, it's business. 0:22:14.400 --> 0:22:19.600 Business, business Levine. At this point I asked Monique if 0:22:19.640 --> 0:22:22.760 she thought Martin had shady dealings with these individuals or 0:22:22.800 --> 0:22:25.119 if she thought they might be responsible for her murder. 0:22:26.440 --> 0:22:30.040 Well, listen, it's bizarre. Nevertheless, you see her with three men, 0:22:30.080 --> 0:22:32.760 and then a few days later she disappears from circulation. 0:22:34.080 --> 0:22:36.560 If one or more of these three men were involved 0:22:36.560 --> 0:22:39.920 in Martin's murder, it would mean that Madame Ganche saw 0:22:39.960 --> 0:22:58.760 the killer or killers just hours before they took Martin. 0:22:58.800 --> 0:23:02.120 Excuse me, So we just drove up to this bridge 0:23:02.200 --> 0:23:05.240 and it's right over a river that's called the River 0:23:05.400 --> 0:23:09.240 of Hate. And I'm with Morgan, who's going to explain 0:23:10.400 --> 0:23:12.560 what happened and what was found here. 0:23:15.600 --> 0:23:19.959 We're just behind the train station of months and about 0:23:20.040 --> 0:23:23.919 five hundred meters from the hotel and Barlia Metropol. 0:23:25.320 --> 0:23:29.239 I wanted to visit the site where Martin's torso was discovered. 0:23:28.760 --> 0:23:31.919 And so if you turn around here you'll see the 0:23:31.960 --> 0:23:35.000 station area. You would have seen it more clearly at 0:23:35.000 --> 0:23:39.399 the time. Here it was completely deserted with empty fields. 0:23:39.720 --> 0:23:43.800 This road wasn't used much. It was very somber and dark. 0:23:44.200 --> 0:23:47.800 And it's here that in July of nineteen ninety six 0:23:48.240 --> 0:23:52.880 that they found the torso of Martin Bone. So it 0:23:53.000 --> 0:23:56.439 was summertime, the water levels were very low and it 0:23:56.520 --> 0:24:00.399 was hot. It was known that Martin has been missing 0:24:00.440 --> 0:24:03.360 for a few days, and here they find this torso. 0:24:04.440 --> 0:24:08.960 It wasn't immediately identified as Martin Bone, but very quickly 0:24:09.160 --> 0:24:13.120 was associated with her and an investigation was opened and 0:24:13.160 --> 0:24:16.600 then well afterwards linked to the Butcher case file in 0:24:16.640 --> 0:24:20.959 March April of nineteen ninety seven, when the affair exploded 0:24:21.440 --> 0:24:25.960 and they were able to link the body parts found 0:24:26.000 --> 0:24:29.520 to the torso that was found here in July of 0:24:29.640 --> 0:24:30.280 ninety six. 0:24:31.359 --> 0:24:34.560 This place isn't only where Martin Bone's torso was found, 0:24:34.800 --> 0:24:37.399 but we're also standing just about one hundred feet away 0:24:37.560 --> 0:24:42.080 from where another torso was dumped several months later. And 0:24:42.119 --> 0:24:45.400 then if I look turn around and look a little 0:24:45.440 --> 0:24:47.760 bit to my left, I can see where the trunk 0:24:47.880 --> 0:24:51.360 of another body was discovered. This was on the twenty 0:24:51.359 --> 0:24:55.920 fourth of March, and this was Natalie Gouda. And it's 0:24:55.920 --> 0:24:59.960 amazing to think that that was after the first show 0:25:00.000 --> 0:25:04.439 blocking discovery of the bags full of body parts. Although 0:25:04.440 --> 0:25:07.560 I'd studied this case extensively before I started working on it, 0:25:07.800 --> 0:25:10.480 I never really grasped it before visiting all of the 0:25:10.520 --> 0:25:13.240 sites and getting my head around who was placed where 0:25:13.359 --> 0:25:17.160 and when. I can imagine it's confusing for the listener too, 0:25:17.680 --> 0:25:20.880 so let's put it into context and in chronological order. 0:25:21.440 --> 0:25:25.720 Authorities identified three victims who were murdered at three different times. 0:25:26.280 --> 0:25:31.840 These were Martin in mid nineteen ninety six, Jacqueline at 0:25:31.880 --> 0:25:35.439 the end of nineteen ninety six, and Natali at the 0:25:35.480 --> 0:25:39.760 beginning of nineteen ninety seven. The first discovery of body 0:25:39.800 --> 0:25:43.520 parts happened six days after the last victim, Natali, was murdered. 0:25:44.160 --> 0:25:47.639 Up until that point, the community was completely unaware that 0:25:47.680 --> 0:25:51.040 a serial killer was on the loose, and Moss we 0:25:51.080 --> 0:25:54.600 can interpret more about his modus operindi by analyzing how 0:25:54.600 --> 0:25:59.640 he deposited the victim's bodies. Martin's torso was deposited here 0:25:59.760 --> 0:26:03.280 where Morgan and I are standing, most likely by pitching 0:26:03.280 --> 0:26:06.080 her torso over this bridge and into the small river 0:26:06.240 --> 0:26:09.720 just below. He proceeded to deposit her smaller body parts 0:26:09.760 --> 0:26:12.119 and trash backs at the main dump side, where the 0:26:12.119 --> 0:26:17.760 first discoveries were made. Her head has still never been found. 0:26:18.000 --> 0:26:21.760 About six months later, he murdered Jacqueline and deposited her 0:26:21.840 --> 0:26:24.640 smaller body parts and trash bags at the main dumb 0:26:24.680 --> 0:26:28.080 side as well. Her torso was never found, although we 0:26:28.119 --> 0:26:31.320 suspect it was also dumped here in the river. Like Martin, 0:26:32.000 --> 0:26:37.280 her head has also still never been found. Three months later, 0:26:37.600 --> 0:26:41.200 he murdered Natali and deposited several of her smaller body 0:26:41.200 --> 0:26:44.119 parts in trash bags at the main dumb side. As usual, 0:26:44.840 --> 0:26:47.760 the killer was keeping some body parts longer than others, 0:26:47.960 --> 0:26:50.200 rather than dumping them all at the same time or 0:26:50.240 --> 0:26:52.919 at the same location. This meant he was still in 0:26:52.960 --> 0:26:55.959 possession of the third victims torso and head. When the 0:26:56.000 --> 0:26:58.639 press picked up on the murders, he could no longer 0:26:58.720 --> 0:27:02.280 operate under the radar. With the police and community on 0:27:02.359 --> 0:27:05.719 full alert, he still had to dump the remaining body parts. 0:27:06.359 --> 0:27:10.760 It's not hard to picture the scenario. Police were still 0:27:10.800 --> 0:27:16.040 scouring the main dumb sight, news reports were flooding TV 0:27:16.240 --> 0:27:23.680 and radio trying to make sense of the original discovery, 0:27:24.200 --> 0:27:31.919 and helicopters were circling the skies all day long. He 0:27:32.080 --> 0:27:35.359 was at risk, but he decided to stick with his 0:27:35.480 --> 0:27:39.080 normal habit of dumping the torso off this bridge into 0:27:39.080 --> 0:27:43.080 the river. Certainly at night when the helicopters weren't circling. 0:27:47.240 --> 0:27:50.280 He would have discreetly drove up to this bridge under 0:27:50.280 --> 0:27:55.480 the cover of darkness. But something must have spooped him. 0:27:55.640 --> 0:27:58.480 Maybe it was the headlights of an approaching car or 0:27:58.520 --> 0:28:04.560 a random passer by. Whatever it was, it changed his plan. 0:28:05.720 --> 0:28:08.159 He didn't have time to drag the torso to the 0:28:08.160 --> 0:28:12.080 bridge and risk being seen at the same time. Aboording 0:28:12.080 --> 0:28:15.400 the disposal was equally risky because he had a decomposing 0:28:15.480 --> 0:28:19.040 torso in his car. He made a hasty decision and 0:28:19.119 --> 0:28:21.480 quickly dumped the torso on the side of the road 0:28:21.600 --> 0:28:26.280