1 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:05,840 Speaker 1: The Butcher of Moss is released weekly absolutely free, but 2 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:09,000 Speaker 1: you can binge the entire season now with iHeart True 3 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:13,160 Speaker 1: Crime Plus exclusively on Apple Podcasts. You'll also get ad 4 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: free listening and exclusive bonus episodes. So head to Apple 5 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:23,960 Speaker 1: Podcasts search iHeart True Crime Plus and subscribe today. 6 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 2: The views and opinions expressing this podcast are solely those 7 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:33,560 Speaker 2: of the podcast author or individuals participating in the podcast, 8 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 2: and do not represent those of iHeartMedia, Tenderfoot TV, or 9 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:41,519 Speaker 2: their employees. This podcast also contains subject matter which may 10 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 2: not be suitable for everyone. Listener discretion is advised. 11 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 1: It's one pm on April twelfth, twenty twenty five. I 12 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:11,119 Speaker 1: traveled halfway across Belgium and then made a beeline south 13 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:13,840 Speaker 1: to make it to where I am today, in an 14 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 1: abandoned field next to a highway, looking for proof that 15 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:22,959 Speaker 1: could be critical to this case. The woman I'm with 16 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 1: has information that could alter the trajectory of our investigation, 17 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 1: but I need to make sure she's telling the truth. 18 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:33,480 Speaker 1: This isn't a lead that I can verify online or 19 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 1: ask a journalist to confirm, because her story has never 20 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: been made public. We're looking for a concrete slab somewhere 21 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:44,759 Speaker 1: in this mess of wasteland near Moss. If I can 22 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: find it, it will prove that what she's telling me 23 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 1: is true, that she really did live here back in 24 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety six. A bunch of shit here. We've got 25 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: an old couch and a bunch of old cans and 26 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 1: toy and junk that must be left over. She told 27 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 1: me that her DNA was found in one of the 28 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:09,640 Speaker 1: trash bags full of body parts of victims of the 29 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:14,119 Speaker 1: butcher of mass Police contacted her in twenty twenty three 30 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 1: to take her DNA sample to confirm, but she never 31 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 1: heard back about the results. She says she lived here 32 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety six with a community of traveling people, 33 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: and that her caravan sat on top of a concrete 34 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 1: slab that we should still be able to find. Ah 35 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: Jeitrveadalal Betton. She was telling me to look for a 36 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:42,639 Speaker 1: piece of concrete foundation. So now I'm standing on this 37 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: concrete foundation. It's kind of remnants of a place where 38 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 1: traveling people or gypsies I guess they were called at 39 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 1: the time, had lived. Wondering if ever, whoever the killer 40 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 1: was have been based here because the hair was found. 41 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 3: I can't be mysterious. 42 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:29,079 Speaker 1: They disappearance of a woman from Mont Jacqueline. 43 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 4: The condition of the victims was sickening, and the question remains, 44 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 4: where is the killer? 45 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: From Tenderfoot TV and iHeart podcasts, I'm Your Host Matt 46 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 1: Graves and This is La manstre Season two, The Butcher 47 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 1: of Moss, The improbable circumstances that led me to be 48 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 1: searching for a concrete slab and a forgotten meadow near 49 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: Moss are still playing out. It started with a vague 50 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 1: rumor on Facebook that a woman had been contacted by 51 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 1: police to test her DNA in relation to the Butcher 52 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 1: of Mals case. Other journalists and armchair sleuths on various 53 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 1: forums that speculated about it, but no one was able 54 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:23,600 Speaker 1: to validate the story. It seemed to be just another 55 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:28,040 Speaker 1: unsubstantiated rumor to add to a long list. The sheer 56 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 1: number of rabbit holes in this case is astounding, and 57 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:34,239 Speaker 1: one of the primary challenges for a cold case team 58 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:37,839 Speaker 1: is sifting through it all to separate valuable leads from 59 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 1: distracting noise. The investigative journalist Frederic lou pounded the pavement 60 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 1: to try to find a person behind this story. He 61 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 1: was able to make a connection that led him to 62 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 1: another connection and then led him to a woman will 63 00:04:51,920 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 1: call Giselle Hope. I've just made a long drive to 64 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: the east of Belgium to pick her up and drive 65 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 1: down to Moss where she lived in nineteen ninety six. 66 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 1: Giselle doesn't have a driver's license. She lives in social 67 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 1: housing and as you hear, her life hasn't been easy. 68 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 5: I have two older sons, the bod drug addicts. My 69 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 5: forty one year old son is also a drug dealer, 70 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 5: and he got busted by the NACO units. It was 71 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 5: bound to happen, and he was detained, and I suppose 72 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 5: that at that time they took a DNA sample from him. 73 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 1: Her son, who was arrested, had also been involved in 74 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 1: a shooting, which most likely triggered the retention of his DNA, 75 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: which was entered into the national database, and in twenty 76 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:56,480 Speaker 1: twenty three, his DNA triggered a potential familial match, and. 77 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:58,920 Speaker 5: From my son's DNA they concluded that there was a 78 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 5: partial female. 79 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:09,479 Speaker 1: Investigators contacted Giselle because they believed an unknown DNA profile 80 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:12,280 Speaker 1: identified from the contents of one of the trash bags 81 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: full of body parts could be hers. She told us 82 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 1: that in nineteen ninety six she was living near Moss 83 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: with a group of traveling people often referred to as gypsies, 84 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 1: in an encampment just outside of the city. At this point, 85 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 1: I mostly believe Gizette, but I feel it's necessary to 86 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:32,160 Speaker 1: actually see the place where she says she was living 87 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 1: at the time. If it does turn out that her 88 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:38,040 Speaker 1: DNA was indeed in one of the trash bags, it 89 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:40,159 Speaker 1: could mean that she had been in contact with a 90 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 1: killer or one of the victims around the time of 91 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 1: the murders. Gizette isn't a traveling person herself, but through 92 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 1: a long, complicated story, she found herself living with a 93 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 1: group of travelers just outside of Moss. Apparently the encampment 94 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:56,839 Speaker 1: is long since gone, but she agreed to show me 95 00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: where it was. 96 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:02,479 Speaker 5: Located advance, and they had made an extension on a 97 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 5: concrete slab for a kitchen and bathroom. That's how I'm 98 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 5: sure I can still find it. 99 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 1: Frederic joined us near Mass and after a lot of searching, 100 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 1: we found the field and located this concrete slab. So 101 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 1: now I'm standing on this concrete foundation and this is 102 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 1: where Joe was living. I'm gonna ask her to try 103 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 1: to explain. Don't you see well, the three of us 104 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 1: stand in the middle of this abandoned encampment next to 105 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 1: the highway. Jessel explains it. 106 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 5: Was in ninety six. The godfather of my son was 107 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 5: a traveler. 108 00:07:57,800 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 3: A gypsy. 109 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 5: At the time, I was living alone in a run 110 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 5: down house with my four children, and when he saw 111 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 5: our condition, he said it was untenable and that he'd 112 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 5: get me a caravan and I could come live with them. 113 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 5: Here on the left side is where the family with 114 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 5: whom I was staying lived, and here on the other 115 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 5: side there were other travelers, but they didn't get along. 116 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:30,679 Speaker 5: There were often fights and even gunshots. The two clans 117 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 5: didn't get along. 118 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:36,560 Speaker 3: You know, they don't woo You don't hundred mm. 119 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,200 Speaker 1: I asked her how it played out when police called 120 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:42,840 Speaker 1: her twenty seven years later about her Dnamtelu. 121 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 5: The police called me and said that they wanted to 122 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:47,559 Speaker 5: do a DNA test. 123 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 1: And didn't ask also. 124 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:53,480 Speaker 5: Because a hair containing my DNA would have been found 125 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:55,440 Speaker 5: in one of the trash bags, and that the DNA 126 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:58,440 Speaker 5: led them to me after having analyzed my son's DNA, 127 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:05,080 Speaker 5: who was in prison at the time, but that it 128 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 5: was a feminine profile. 129 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:15,560 Speaker 1: Frederic asked her if she knew any of the victims. 130 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 6: No. 131 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 5: The investigators showed me their pictures and I looked at 132 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 5: them very closely, but didn't recognize any of them. 133 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:28,080 Speaker 1: So police must have detected an unknown DNA profile from 134 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:30,560 Speaker 1: a strand of hair found in one of the gruesome 135 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 1: trash bags, which triggered a partial match on her son, 136 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 1: but given the profile, it led them to believe that 137 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:39,679 Speaker 1: it would have come from his mother, Giesel. It's still 138 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:43,440 Speaker 1: unclear why police never contacted Gisel about the outcome of 139 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: her DNA test. We're actively following up to get the results. 140 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 1: The practical consequences of a DNA match could mean one 141 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 1: of many things. It could have been a random coincidence. 142 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 1: She could have been in contact with a victim, or 143 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 1: she could have been in contact with a killer, or, 144 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:19,840 Speaker 1: in a more troubling scenario, possibly even involved with the crimes. 145 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 7: It was the evening of July twentieth. Martin was my 146 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 7: last client of the day. She came in between six 147 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 7: fifty and seven. I remember that she was very well 148 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:37,680 Speaker 7: dressed that evening. 149 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety six, edoard Campus was a hairdresser in 150 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 1: the Center of Moss, just up the road from the 151 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 1: train station. One of his regular customers was a woman 152 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:51,840 Speaker 1: named Martin Bone. 153 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 7: Martin Bone was one of my most loyal customers. She 154 00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 7: was a beautiful woman who dressed well, not too centric 155 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 7: or to Volga, but she was definitely a handful. Her 156 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 7: character was after a while. You had to take her 157 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 7: as she came on that evening, she had made an appointment. 158 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 1: On the evening of July twentieth, Martin took the last 159 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:23,560 Speaker 1: appointment of the day to have her hair done by Edoar, 160 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 1: her hairdresser and confidant. She always looked forward to spending 161 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 1: time at the salon, catching up on gossip and sharing 162 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 1: the latest updates about her eventful life, all while being 163 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:37,679 Speaker 1: pampered by Edoar. 164 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:46,319 Speaker 7: She told me that she was invited to a friend's 165 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 7: dinner party that evening. She was in good spirits and 166 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 7: happy to be invited. She had dressed up for the party, 167 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 7: and her mood was very relaxed. I didn't notice anything 168 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 7: off at all. She didn't seem bothered about anything. Not 169 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:14,200 Speaker 7: at any moment did she mention to me that she 170 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 7: was afraid of anything or anyone who might hurt her. 171 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:20,440 Speaker 7: Not that evening or anytime. 172 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 1: Ever, that was the last time Edoard ever saw his 173 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 1: friend and client Martin Bone. On the next day, she 174 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:34,320 Speaker 1: went missing from the center of mass and was never 175 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 1: seen alive again. July twenty first is Belgian Independence Day, 176 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:05,600 Speaker 1: day of national celebration full of festivity, parties, concerts and fireworks. 177 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 1: This was the day Martin Bone vanished. As Edward explained, 178 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 1: she seemed to be in good spirits one day earlier, 179 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 1: but that hadn't always been the case with Martin. 180 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 7: I think she arrived in months when she was much younger. 181 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 7: If my memory served me correctly, she was very pretty. 182 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:30,080 Speaker 7: If you walked by her on the street, you wouldn't 183 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 7: have thought for a minute that she was involved with 184 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 7: a prostitution. The sad thing is that she had a 185 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 7: very bad accident that changed her a lot. After the accident, 186 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 7: she wasn't the same person, neither physically nor mentally. She 187 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:52,680 Speaker 7: had highs and she had lulls, and her laws could 188 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 7: be really low. 189 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:58,840 Speaker 1: Martin was originally from France, but ended up living in 190 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:02,359 Speaker 1: Mons as a young woman, working in bars and eventually 191 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:06,959 Speaker 1: becoming a sex worker. Her life was completely changed by 192 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 1: a car accident that left both mental and physical scars. 193 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 1: A financial settlement following the accident gave her some financial relief, 194 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: but she kept some private clients on the side. At 195 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 1: the time of her disappearance, she was staying in a 196 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 1: hotel called the Liedo, about a fifteen minute walk from 197 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:29,520 Speaker 1: the train station. On the evening of July twenty first, 198 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety six, she was last seen exiting the hotel 199 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 1: Lido by foot. Still to this day, we don't know 200 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:39,720 Speaker 1: if she had a rendezvous with a client that night 201 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 1: or if she was just heading out on her own. 202 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 1: It was a warm evening with no rain. She would 203 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 1: have walked into Archer Street, surely heading south towards the center. 204 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 1: Bars and cafes would have had their windows open and 205 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 1: tables outside full of revelers and joining the summer weather. 206 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 1: One thing we know for sure is that at some 207 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 1: point that evening she came face to face with her killer. 208 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 1: Four days later, on July twenty fifth, nineteen ninety six, 209 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 1: the beautiful weather had turned and the more familiar low 210 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 1: cloud cover and drizzle had taken over the skies of 211 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 1: southern Belgium. A light mist formed around the banks of 212 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 1: the River of Hate that winds through Mons eastward towards 213 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 1: the border of France. A local was walking his dog 214 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 1: along the river bank when he noticed something floating in 215 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 1: the water. It was a human torso. Had the water 216 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 1: levels been higher, it would have certainly float further down 217 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 1: the river, perhaps into neighboring France, but it was stuck 218 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 1: in a shallow eddie. It was a female torso. The 219 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: head and limbs had been amputated with a sharp instrument, 220 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 1: and the breasts had been removed. The torso would later 221 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 1: be identified as belonging to Martin Boone. It's believed that 222 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 1: she was murdered at some point between July twenty first 223 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 1: and twenty second, nineteen ninety six. This was before the 224 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 1: disappearances of Jacqueline Leclaire and Natalie go Dard and the 225 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 1: subsequent gruesome discoveries of human remains and trash bags. Sadly, 226 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:38,840 Speaker 1: Martin's disappearance wasn't investigated as rigorously as the other murders 227 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 1: because she was a known sex worker at the time. 228 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 1: She was also the lone discovery, so there were no 229 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 1: dots to connect with other murders fitting the killer's mo 230 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 1: You'll recall that in nineteen ninety seven, investigators had previously 231 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 1: identified two of the victims in a series of gruesome 232 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 1: discoveries of trash bags filled with human body parts, but 233 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 1: they were struggling to identify the third victim. The investigative 234 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 1: journalist Frederick Law explains, at. 235 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 8: The time they already identified Jacqueline Leclair Natalie Goddard, and 236 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:17,160 Speaker 8: now they identified Martin Bone because they found a torso. 237 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 8: A few months before, they found a torso in the 238 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 8: river line. But this torso was not already connected to 239 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 8: the other victims. But now it's done, so things are 240 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 8: becoming clear about the connection between those three victims and 241 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:44,239 Speaker 8: the way they have been killed. The whole image was 242 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:50,120 Speaker 8: really dark, and now with three victims, it confirms that 243 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 8: we have a serial killer. 244 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,359 Speaker 1: As a story developed, the press created a name for 245 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 1: the elusive serial killer who was terrorizing Moss. In French, 246 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:03,480 Speaker 1: they called him Le de pesssur, which technically means the 247 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:07,960 Speaker 1: slicer or dismember, but the most common translation is simply 248 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 1: the butcher. Thus was born. The name still referred to 249 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 1: today La depassur the mass the butcher of mass Le. 250 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:21,119 Speaker 9: It is now certain that the Butcher of Mons has 251 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:25,439 Speaker 9: killed three victims. The first is Martin Bone, who disappeared 252 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:29,119 Speaker 9: in July of nineteen ninety six. Her mutilated torso was 253 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:31,359 Speaker 9: found in the River of Hate. A few weeks later, 254 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 9: more of her body parts were found in the recent 255 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 9: discovery of the twenty second of March. It's also certain 256 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 9: that the trash bags recently discovered were deposited at different times. 257 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:45,959 Speaker 9: The remains of martin bone were undoubtedly there for several 258 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 9: months already. 259 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 1: Upon re examining martin Bon's torso, investigators established that the 260 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 1: instrument used to dismember her body was similar to the 261 00:18:55,119 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 1: other victims, most likely a regular handsaw, just like Jacquelinini. 262 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 1: Martin was known to frequent establishments near the train station, 263 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:08,919 Speaker 1: and specifically the hotel Le Metropol, which seems to be 264 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 1: ground zero for the butcher of Mans's hunting ground. Madame Gosh, 265 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:16,359 Speaker 1: the honor of La Metropol, who you heard from in 266 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:18,920 Speaker 1: previous episodes, knew Martin well. 267 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:24,359 Speaker 6: Martin came to Belgium and she worked in bars left 268 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 6: and right and right and left. She was very clever, 269 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:31,639 Speaker 6: and it's for that reason that I say that the 270 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 6: idea of Martin letting someone she didn't know take her 271 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 6: away is impossible. And her mother would come from time 272 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:42,960 Speaker 6: to time to visit her and they would stay here 273 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 6: in my hotel and everything was fine. But she had 274 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 6: a bad accident and she won a settlement. So we 275 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 6: thought that because Martin had money, that she'd been killed 276 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,240 Speaker 6: by someone who wanted her money. 277 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:04,879 Speaker 1: At the time, investigators as well as Martin's friends, thought 278 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:07,120 Speaker 1: that her murder must have been related to her activities 279 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 1: in the nightclub scene or something tied to her financial settlement. 280 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 1: But after the discoveries of body parts, in realization that 281 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 1: a serial killer was on the loose, her friends began 282 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:20,639 Speaker 1: to think that Martin could also be a victim of 283 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:24,480 Speaker 1: the Butcher of Moss. Madame Gange had a mutual friend 284 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 1: with Martin and they spoke about this possibility. 285 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:30,960 Speaker 6: One morning, this friend came to see me and said, 286 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:34,480 Speaker 6: I'm going to the police, and she said, I want 287 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 6: to know if it's her. She went to the police 288 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:41,159 Speaker 6: and that afternoon she came back to see me and 289 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 6: she said it's her. She said, I know Martin's body. Martin, 290 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:51,640 Speaker 6: she didn't have her arms or legs. It was only 291 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:54,680 Speaker 6: her torso and she said, I saw it was her. 292 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 6: I saw her tattoo on her shoulder. 293 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:02,399 Speaker 1: When Madame Gange learned that Martin had been killed. She 294 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 1: recalled having seen her on the day of her disappearance. 295 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 7: Of Martin. 296 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 6: The last time I saw Martine she was with three 297 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 6: men on a Sunday morning, the twenty first of July, 298 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:20,440 Speaker 6: and she came to have a drink here with these 299 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 6: three men. Kiss could you see? And I said, Martin, 300 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 6: what are you doing at nine in the morning, all 301 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 6: dressed up and pretty. She was wearing a black silk robe. 302 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:37,560 Speaker 6: She had gone to the same hairdresser. We both went. 303 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 1: To El d Mont. 304 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 6: And on Sunday she was here with three men who 305 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 6: I didn't know it was the twenty first of July 306 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 6: because I had the habit of putting yellow flowers on 307 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 6: the tables every Sunday morning. She sat at a table 308 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:03,200 Speaker 6: and I parted discussing with the men and ordered four beers, 309 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:07,880 Speaker 6: and I served them the beers and I said, Martin, 310 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:09,960 Speaker 6: what's going on? Why are you all dressed up on 311 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 6: a Sunday morning? And she winked and said, it's business. 312 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 1: Business, business Levine. At this point I asked Monique if 313 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 1: she thought Martin had shady dealings with these individuals or 314 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:25,119 Speaker 1: if she thought they might be responsible for her murder. 315 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 6: Well, listen, it's bizarre. Nevertheless, you see her with three men, 316 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 6: and then a few days later she disappears from circulation. 317 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:36,560 Speaker 1: If one or more of these three men were involved 318 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:39,920 Speaker 1: in Martin's murder, it would mean that Madame Ganche saw 319 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 1: the killer or killers just hours before they took Martin. 320 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:02,120 Speaker 1: Excuse me, So we just drove up to this bridge 321 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 1: and it's right over a river that's called the River 322 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 1: of Hate. And I'm with Morgan, who's going to explain 323 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 1: what happened and what was found here. 324 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:19,959 Speaker 4: We're just behind the train station of months and about 325 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:23,919 Speaker 4: five hundred meters from the hotel and Barlia Metropol. 326 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:29,239 Speaker 1: I wanted to visit the site where Martin's torso was discovered. 327 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,919 Speaker 4: And so if you turn around here you'll see the 328 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 4: station area. You would have seen it more clearly at 329 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:39,399 Speaker 4: the time. Here it was completely deserted with empty fields. 330 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 4: This road wasn't used much. It was very somber and dark. 331 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 4: And it's here that in July of nineteen ninety six 332 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:52,880 Speaker 4: that they found the torso of Martin Bone. So it 333 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:56,439 Speaker 4: was summertime, the water levels were very low and it 334 00:23:56,520 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 4: was hot. It was known that Martin has been missing 335 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:03,360 Speaker 4: for a few days, and here they find this torso. 336 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:08,960 Speaker 4: It wasn't immediately identified as Martin Bone, but very quickly 337 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:13,120 Speaker 4: was associated with her and an investigation was opened and 338 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 4: then well afterwards linked to the Butcher case file in 339 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:20,959 Speaker 4: March April of nineteen ninety seven, when the affair exploded 340 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 4: and they were able to link the body parts found 341 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 4: to the torso that was found here in July of 342 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 4: ninety six. 343 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 1: This place isn't only where Martin Bone's torso was found, 344 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,399 Speaker 1: but we're also standing just about one hundred feet away 345 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:42,080 Speaker 1: from where another torso was dumped several months later. And 346 00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:45,400 Speaker 1: then if I look turn around and look a little 347 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 1: bit to my left, I can see where the trunk 348 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:51,360 Speaker 1: of another body was discovered. This was on the twenty 349 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:55,920 Speaker 1: fourth of March, and this was Natalie Gouda. And it's 350 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:59,960 Speaker 1: amazing to think that that was after the first show 351 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:04,439 Speaker 1: blocking discovery of the bags full of body parts. Although 352 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,560 Speaker 1: I'd studied this case extensively before I started working on it, 353 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:10,480 Speaker 1: I never really grasped it before visiting all of the 354 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 1: sites and getting my head around who was placed where 355 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:17,160 Speaker 1: and when. I can imagine it's confusing for the listener too, 356 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,880 Speaker 1: so let's put it into context and in chronological order. 357 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 1: Authorities identified three victims who were murdered at three different times. 358 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:31,840 Speaker 1: These were Martin in mid nineteen ninety six, Jacqueline at 359 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:35,439 Speaker 1: the end of nineteen ninety six, and Natali at the 360 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 1: beginning of nineteen ninety seven. The first discovery of body 361 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 1: parts happened six days after the last victim, Natali, was murdered. 362 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,639 Speaker 1: Up until that point, the community was completely unaware that 363 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 1: a serial killer was on the loose, and Moss we 364 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 1: can interpret more about his modus operindi by analyzing how 365 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:59,640 Speaker 1: he deposited the victim's bodies. Martin's torso was deposited here 366 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 1: where Morgan and I are standing, most likely by pitching 367 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,080 Speaker 1: her torso over this bridge and into the small river 368 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 1: just below. He proceeded to deposit her smaller body parts 369 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,119 Speaker 1: and trash backs at the main dump side, where the 370 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:17,760 Speaker 1: first discoveries were made. Her head has still never been found. 371 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,760 Speaker 1: About six months later, he murdered Jacqueline and deposited her 372 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,640 Speaker 1: smaller body parts and trash bags at the main dumb 373 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:28,080 Speaker 1: side as well. Her torso was never found, although we 374 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:31,320 Speaker 1: suspect it was also dumped here in the river. Like Martin, 375 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 1: her head has also still never been found. Three months later, 376 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:41,200 Speaker 1: he murdered Natali and deposited several of her smaller body 377 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,119 Speaker 1: parts in trash bags at the main dumb side. As usual, 378 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 1: the killer was keeping some body parts longer than others, 379 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:50,200 Speaker 1: rather than dumping them all at the same time or 380 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,919 Speaker 1: at the same location. This meant he was still in 381 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,959 Speaker 1: possession of the third victims torso and head. When the 382 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,639 Speaker 1: press picked up on the murders, he could no longer 383 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 1: operate under the radar. With the police and community on 384 00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,719 Speaker 1: full alert, he still had to dump the remaining body parts. 385 00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:10,760 Speaker 1: It's not hard to picture the scenario. Police were still 386 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 1: scouring the main dumb sight, news reports were flooding TV 387 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:23,680 Speaker 1: and radio trying to make sense of the original discovery, 388 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:31,919 Speaker 1: and helicopters were circling the skies all day long. He 389 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:35,359 Speaker 1: was at risk, but he decided to stick with his 390 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 1: normal habit of dumping the torso off this bridge into 391 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:43,080 Speaker 1: the river. Certainly at night when the helicopters weren't circling. 392 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 1: He would have discreetly drove up to this bridge under 393 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 1: the cover of darkness. But something must have spooped him. 394 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 1: Maybe it was the headlights of an approaching car or 395 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 1: a random passer by. Whatever it was, it changed his plan. 396 00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:08,159 Speaker 1: He didn't have time to drag the torso to the 397 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 1: bridge and risk being seen at the same time. Aboording 398 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:15,400 Speaker 1: the disposal was equally risky because he had a decomposing 399 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 1: torso in his car. He made a hasty decision and 400 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,480 Speaker 1: quickly dumped the torso on the side of the road 401 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 1: next to the bridge. It was high risk because the 402 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 1: torso was sure to be found quickly, but he must 403 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 1: have decided he didn't have a choice. Just two days later, 404 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,640 Speaker 1: the torso was found and police locked the area down. 405 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 1: He managed to evade police, but he still had a 406 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:41,959 Speaker 1: few body parts in the head of the last victim 407 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 1: in his possession. He likely decided that his usual dumping 408 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 1: grounds were a no go. Instead, he decided to bide 409 00:28:49,520 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 1: his time and make final disposals elsewhere. After visiting the 410 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 1: torso dumb site, I continued my macab tour with Morgan 411 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:13,000 Speaker 1: to the new place the killer chose to dispose of 412 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 1: the remaining body parts. It's a small road in a 413 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 1: municipality called Avre, about a fifteen minute drive from moss. 414 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 1: As we pull up to the site, Morgan explains. 415 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 4: So now we're at the deposit site in Havre. It's 416 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,800 Speaker 4: here that they found more body parts of Natalie Godach 417 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,920 Speaker 4: among the last trash bags that were found. So most 418 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 4: probably these were among the last body parts he still 419 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 4: had in his possession. He was under pressure and needed 420 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:48,600 Speaker 4: to get rid of them. Previously, he had gotten rid 421 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,240 Speaker 4: of the body parts of his victims quickly, but in 422 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:53,760 Speaker 4: March of ninety seven, when the affair came out, he 423 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:56,960 Speaker 4: still had some parts of his last victim, Natalie Godach. 424 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:01,240 Speaker 4: And here it's striking because for the first time we're 425 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,560 Speaker 4: sure that he had to keep the body parts for 426 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 4: a whole month, and his behavior must have changed at 427 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,680 Speaker 4: this time because his other dumb sites were locked down 428 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,880 Speaker 4: and he had to be under pressure. He needed to 429 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 4: find a solution to get rid of the last body parts. 430 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 4: He had to live a whole month with these before 431 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:20,800 Speaker 4: having finding a new place to dumb them. 432 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:25,960 Speaker 1: There was one last place to visit on our inspection 433 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:29,320 Speaker 1: of dumb sites. It's also an Avre, very close to 434 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 1: the site we just visited. It's always been a bit 435 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,600 Speaker 1: of a mystery as to why the killer chose two 436 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,360 Speaker 1: different sites very close to one another to get rid 437 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,560 Speaker 1: of the last few sacks filled with remains. One of 438 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,520 Speaker 1: the things I really appreciate about Morgan is the energy 439 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:48,000 Speaker 1: pores into profiling the perpetrator. He did experiments to recreate 440 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 1: each of the killer's known disposals. It was during one 441 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,080 Speaker 1: of his simulations that he came to the conclusion that 442 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 1: the killer must have been spooked again during his final 443 00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:58,560 Speaker 1: dump run. 444 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 4: I came back here several times, and I experienced something 445 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 4: that enabled me to evolve my thinking about my investigation. 446 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 4: One day, I was at the site we just visited. 447 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 4: I stopped my car and was examining the side, and 448 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,840 Speaker 4: suddenly I saw car lights heading in my direction. I 449 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 4: was almost in a panic, even though I hadn't done 450 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 4: anything wrong, But I jumped back into my car, and 451 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,520 Speaker 4: at that moment I put myself in the shoes of 452 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:34,120 Speaker 4: the perpetrator. I was stressed out the car was following me. 453 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 4: I took the first left because the street on the 454 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 4: right was a cul de sac, and again left towards 455 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,520 Speaker 4: the main road I'd come in on. And at that 456 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 4: point I imagined I had two trash bags full of 457 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 4: remains in my car. I arrived at the main road 458 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,480 Speaker 4: and thought, if I were him, where would I go? 459 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:54,680 Speaker 4: If I take the main road, I'm either heading into 460 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:58,600 Speaker 4: the center of Mons or the center of Havre. Then 461 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 4: I noticed a small cobble stone road straight ahead, as 462 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 4: so I took it, and it led me straight to 463 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,440 Speaker 4: the street where the last dump was made. I'm sure 464 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 4: that all of the secs should have been dumped at 465 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,280 Speaker 4: the first place I went, but the killer was spooked, 466 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:14,200 Speaker 4: just as I was when I did my simulation. 467 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,680 Speaker 1: So what does all of this tell us about the perpetrator? 468 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,160 Speaker 1: His initial dumb sites were in Moss, not too far 469 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 1: from the city center. It's probably safe to assume that 470 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:36,880 Speaker 1: he was committing these murders and disposing of the bodies 471 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,760 Speaker 1: within the city. It certainly wouldn't make sense to drive 472 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 1: into a busy metropolitan area to dispose of body parts 473 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:47,720 Speaker 1: if you committed the murders elsewhere, unless, of course, he 474 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 1: wanted them to be found. We also know that he 475 00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 1: was able to abduct, murder, dismember, and store the remains 476 00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,000 Speaker 1: of several victims at once for upwards of a month 477 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 1: without being detacted. This is quite a feat within a 478 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 1: densely populated city. He seems to be a risk taker 479 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,640 Speaker 1: because the dump sites he chose are not in secluded areas, 480 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:15,560 Speaker 1: but rather populated locations. You may have noticed that some 481 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:20,960 Speaker 1: of the dump sites have intriguing names. Martin Bone's Torso 482 00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:24,960 Speaker 1: was found in the River of Hate parallel to Pelvis Road, 483 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 1: Natali go Das Torso was found on the side of 484 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 1: a road called the Path of Worry, and the last 485 00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 1: two dump sites were on the sides of Dump Road 486 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 1: and Saint Simphorian Street. Was the killer playing some sort 487 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:46,520 Speaker 1: of gruesome game. It certainly feels like a deliberate and 488 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:50,800 Speaker 1: sinister treasure hunt to taunt the police and terrorize the population. 489 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:55,840 Speaker 1: Each new discovery sent fresh waves of terror throughout Moss. 490 00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:01,720 Speaker 1: Whispers of a calculated pattern spread like wise fire, and 491 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 1: with every mutilated body found, the unease grew, suffocating the 492 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,440 Speaker 1: city in a relentless grip of fear. 493 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:23,560 Speaker 10: Let Mons, the serial killer of Mons, is a dangerous psychopath, 494 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:27,279 Speaker 10: a completely exceptional case in the annals of criminality. 495 00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 11: We can consider that the profile is someone intelligent, maybe 496 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:35,440 Speaker 11: also someone provocative, who seeks to create sensation because his 497 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:40,360 Speaker 11: techniques are rather extraordinary and exceptional. Maybe also someone influenced 498 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:43,240 Speaker 11: by all that comes from America and the latest films 499 00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:44,760 Speaker 11: that we've seen in movie theaters. 500 00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,560 Speaker 6: With experience, you know, criminals are like us. 501 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,200 Speaker 5: With experience, we get better at what we do. 502 00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:55,280 Speaker 10: Until now, there have been no examples of serial killers 503 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:58,680 Speaker 10: in Western Europe who dismember their victims. The reference comes 504 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:02,640 Speaker 10: from the United States. Analysts are reduced to theoretical assumptions 505 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,280 Speaker 10: to determine the psychological profile of the killer. 506 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:16,800 Speaker 1: Le Monstre is a production of Tenderfoot TV and iHeart Podcasts. Hosted, written, 507 00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:20,759 Speaker 1: and executive produced by me Matt Graves, Donald Albright and 508 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:23,800 Speaker 1: Payne Lindsay are executive producers on the behalf of Tenderfoot 509 00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:27,319 Speaker 1: TV with producer Makeup and Vanity set. Matt Frederick and 510 00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:31,000 Speaker 1: Trevor Young are executive producers on the behalf of iHeart Podcasts. 511 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:35,200 Speaker 1: Original music by Jay Ragsdale, Sound design and master by 512 00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:39,360 Speaker 1: Cooper Skinner. Cover design by Byron McCoy and Trevor Eiler. 513 00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:45,360 Speaker 1: Lea Monstre includes archival audio from SONYMA RTBF Archives. Special 514 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:48,640 Speaker 1: thanks to Aren Rosenbaum and the team at UTA, the 515 00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:52,600 Speaker 1: Nord Group and are Active Investigation Team. Morgen van Leerberg 516 00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:56,680 Speaker 1: Frederic laure Xervi de Com and Alan Gardon, as well 517 00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:00,319 Speaker 1: as the teams at iHeart Podcasts and Tenderfoot TV. Find 518 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:04,200 Speaker 1: us on social media at Monster Underscore pod. For more 519 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:08,040 Speaker 1: podcasts like Lea Monstre, search Tenderfoot TV in your podcast 520 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:21,360 Speaker 1: app or visit Tenderfoot TV. Ready to keep listening, remember 521 00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:23,840 Speaker 1: you can binge the rest of the season right now 522 00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:27,960 Speaker 1: with an iHeart True Crime Plus subscription available exclusively on 523 00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:31,879 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts Plus. You'll get exclusive bonus episodes and add 524 00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:35,439 Speaker 1: free listening. So head to Apple Podcasts, search iHeart True 525 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:37,280 Speaker 1: Crime Plus and subscribe today.