1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. You know that we 2 00:00:02,800 --> 00:00:07,000 Speaker 1: had huge news out of Venezuela just last week. The 3 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:11,040 Speaker 1: President of the United States he authorized a mission to 4 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 1: go in, an incredibly successful mission to go in and 5 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:18,800 Speaker 1: take the man who had claimed to be the president 6 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: of the country and was illegally holding that post. We 7 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: call him the Dictator of Venezuela, Maduro, but he is 8 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 1: now now, he is not there anymore, and that has 9 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:35,920 Speaker 1: been welcome news to many of the Venezuelans in Venezuela, 10 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 1: but also across the world. And so we have someone 11 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 1: with us today who has a lot of experience not 12 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 1: only living in Venezuela, but also talking about what it 13 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:49,599 Speaker 1: means economically in a country like Venezuela and what it 14 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:52,159 Speaker 1: means economically for the rest of the world. So I'm 15 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 1: pleased to say that we have Jorge Jurasadi with us today. 16 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 1: He is the president of the nonprofit the Economic Inclusion Group, 17 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 1: and as I said, he's a Venezuelan native. Jorge, thank 18 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 1: you so much for visiting with us today on the 19 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:06,400 Speaker 1: Tutor Dixon Podcast. 20 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 2: Thank you very much. Thank you for having me. 21 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:12,200 Speaker 1: We were talking just before we got on about your 22 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:16,040 Speaker 1: history you grew up in Venezuela. So really it's been 23 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 1: about thirty years since we saw the shift in the 24 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:23,120 Speaker 1: country from what was one of the wealthiest countries in 25 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 1: the world. Correct. 26 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:29,120 Speaker 2: Yes, Venezuela in the nineteen eighties, for example, was one 27 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:32,440 Speaker 2: of the twenties richest countries in the world and now 28 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:35,199 Speaker 2: is one of the poorest in the region. So really, 29 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 2: Venezuela's exemplifies how our country can fully collapse. 30 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:42,679 Speaker 1: I think people really need to understand that, though, because 31 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: we were hearing I would say probably just about five 32 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: years ago, people started to say it's become so bad 33 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 1: in Venezuela. People are giving up their family pet or 34 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: actually eating their family pet because there's no food left. 35 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 1: And I know that sounds extreme, but I think that 36 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 1: for those of us in the United States, those kinds 37 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 1: of conversations are extreme. We don't We are very privileged 38 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 1: here to have the things that we have. Tell us 39 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: a little bit about the decline that people have seen, 40 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: so folks can understand the reaction to Maduro being captured. 41 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:20,520 Speaker 2: It may sound extreme for people that are not coming 42 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 2: from Venezuela, but the reality is that in Venezuela, the 43 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:29,080 Speaker 2: Maduro regime, and before the Chilvist regime, they implemented a 44 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:33,800 Speaker 2: series of policies that made impossible to do business in Venezuela. 45 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 2: It was impossible to produce food, to distribute it, to import, 46 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 2: to export. Basically all the market mechanisms were taken over 47 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 2: by the government. So in those conditions, of course, you 48 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:50,519 Speaker 2: will not find food. You will not find bread, you 49 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 2: would not find milk, you will not find easy things 50 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,639 Speaker 2: that people just take for granted. The same way. 51 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 1: Took it over. Why didn't they, I mean, because we 52 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 1: hear this all the time, the government should take control 53 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 1: of this, And you say, so, obviously that didn't go well, 54 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 1: But I think it's not obvious to people who don't 55 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:12,119 Speaker 1: understand what that means. If they took it over, why 56 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 1: didn't they keep running it the way it was being run. 57 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:17,919 Speaker 2: It's very good you ask You asked that question. So 58 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 2: let's then step back. First of all, the economy only 59 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 2: functions when you have people that are encouraged to do business. 60 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 2: So for example, if you're a farmer, then you can produce, 61 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 2: and whatever you produce you can sell to supermarkets and 62 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 2: make a profit. And then if you're a supermarket you 63 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 2: can sell it to customers, and the customers have money 64 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 2: because they themselves work on something else. The economy works 65 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 2: when you have this decentralized network of people making individual decisions. 66 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 2: It cannot work if a government is making all these decisions. 67 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 2: It cannot work, first of all, because of corruption. And 68 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 2: it cannot work because you cannot allow bureaucrats to take 69 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 2: decisions on behalf of everybody about how much it has 70 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 2: to be produced, at what price people need to sell, 71 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 2: what do we need to export, what do we need 72 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:18,279 Speaker 2: to import. It doesn't work. It's called socialism and it 73 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 2: has never functioned. It has never worked in Venezuela. They 74 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 2: tried all these schemes. So in Venezuela nobody could produce 75 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 2: anything or nobody could work. So the US benefits and 76 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 2: the US has this incredible amount of wealth because people 77 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:37,040 Speaker 2: are free economically. 78 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:42,479 Speaker 1: One of the biggest I guess products, One of the 79 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: biggest products that was produced and was sold was oil. 80 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 1: Your country was making what three and a half million 81 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 1: barrels a day or something, and then that changed to 82 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 1: under a million. What is the story there? How has 83 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 1: that changed? Because we're hearing from the perspective of Americans, 84 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:04,840 Speaker 1: all of these oil companies were there. They were American 85 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:08,119 Speaker 1: oil companies, and I think there's a little confusion on 86 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 1: the American side of the aisle where people go, oh, well, 87 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: we would rather have American companies in America. But I 88 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: try to explain to people there's a huge benefit to 89 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 1: having that partnership and having some of our companies in countries, 90 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 1: especially countries that are in the same hemisphere as US 91 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:32,719 Speaker 1: and we are connected. We don't want that going to 92 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:37,279 Speaker 1: our enemies. So it was benefit to have those companies there. 93 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 1: They were kicked out as well, and then oil production 94 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 1: went way down. 95 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 2: Yes, exactly. So I think you made two very interesting points, 96 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 2: Like the first one, what happened in the oil industry, 97 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 2: and it's a similar story, like Venezuela used to have 98 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 2: a well run oil sector, run by professionals, run by technicians. 99 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 2: It was a very professional oil running industry. But then 100 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 2: the government took the decision to put loyalists, to put 101 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 2: people that are close to the regime in positions of power. 102 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 2: So they fired the entire executive board from the state 103 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 2: on oil company and they put politicians, bureaucrats, people without 104 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 2: experience running oil industry. If you combine that lack of 105 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 2: experience with insane amount of corruption. Then that's why I 106 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 2: all start to decline year by year. At the beginning 107 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 2: you don't notice, but like in any business, if you 108 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 2: neglected for so long, it then bi rapidly collapses. And 109 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 2: this is what happens in Venezuela. Years of not investing 110 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 2: led to this moment. It really shows the nature of 111 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:52,840 Speaker 2: these regimes because they were not able to safeguard even 112 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 2: their most valuable asset, because corruption just takes everything when 113 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:01,919 Speaker 2: it comes to America. The partnership between the US and 114 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 2: Venezuela for many years worked really well because Venezuela was 115 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 2: a producer of oil. In fact, by the nineteen forties 116 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 2: we were already the second biggest producer of oil after 117 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 2: the US. So Venezuela and the US were working in 118 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 2: corporation since World War Two on giving oil that the 119 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 2: US needs then to do its entire economy. Everything worked 120 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 2: really well until the socialists took over. Until the Socialist 121 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 2: start expelling oil companies, they confiscate us that they never paid. 122 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 2: In fact, international courts and court in New York have 123 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 2: granted reparations to American companies because of this. But of 124 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 2: course the Venezuelan government has not given a penny back. 125 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 2: But the same way that thousands of Venezuelans they took 126 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:53,240 Speaker 2: over their farms, they took over their businesses, they destroyed 127 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 2: their businesses, and nobody received a penny from the Venezuelan government. 128 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 1: And this is just proof to people who are out 129 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 1: there saying, well, the government can step in and manage things. 130 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 1: You don't. The government doesn't manage things. The government is 131 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 1: for laws and public safety. But generally you don't have 132 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 1: a lot of people in there that have hardcore business 133 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 1: management experience that can go, you know what, We'll have 134 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 1: this arm of the government take over our business and 135 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 1: then you know, all businesses are the same. That's the 136 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 1: mindset sometimes. I think that people that believe socialism will 137 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 1: work have like, oh, anybody can do it. If they 138 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:35,199 Speaker 1: can do it, this person can do it. But there 139 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:38,079 Speaker 1: truly is expertise. I mean, I know that coming from 140 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 1: the manufacturing sector was that we needed to have experts 141 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:46,199 Speaker 1: that understood how to make our products. Oil is definitely 142 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 1: the same situation. What do you say to people who 143 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 1: are saying, well, Trump just did this to get control 144 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 1: of the oil. We know that Venezuela is being courted 145 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 1: heavily by China. We know that rush around. We know 146 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:04,559 Speaker 1: that there's a connection with Iran. You talked about corruption. 147 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 1: I think people think about corruption on a local level. 148 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:09,679 Speaker 1: You know, they're like, okay, so they're taking money out, 149 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:12,080 Speaker 1: they're getting rich on their own. But there is also 150 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:15,760 Speaker 1: corruption on a global level where you have some pretty 151 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:20,680 Speaker 1: bad people come together that can cause some serious worldwide issues. 152 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 2: Yes, because corruption. There is corruption on the smaller level. 153 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 2: There is a big corruption. There's geopolitical corruption. There is 154 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 2: a stealing of natural resources because a lot of people 155 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 2: make a lot of money by just you know, taking 156 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 2: away things from people. In the case of Venezuela, the 157 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 2: oil industry is right now run to a bigger extent 158 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 2: by Iranians. So they and it has a reasoning Iranians something. 159 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:54,320 Speaker 1: I feel like we are not hearing at all. 160 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:54,559 Speaker 2: Now. 161 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: We know that these oil tankers are being taken in 162 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 1: the ocean, and what we just heard that one was 163 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 1: coming from Iran, and there was some confusion as to 164 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:08,680 Speaker 1: how that exactly is happening. But very interesting statement. While 165 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: we see Iran, the regime there seems to be in 166 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 1: crisis and falling and at the same time you're telling 167 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:21,319 Speaker 1: me that they're actually they actually have control in Venezuela. 168 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 2: To a very big extent. They do because for many years, 169 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 2: Iran had this know how on how to evade US 170 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:33,079 Speaker 2: sanctions and especially oil sanctions. So when the US imposed 171 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:37,679 Speaker 2: oil sanctions on Venezuela, particularly after two and nineteen, then 172 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 2: the Iranians, who are the ones who provide this technical 173 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:46,559 Speaker 2: support for Venezuelans to continue operating despite AS sanctions. So 174 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:49,440 Speaker 2: how does this work. They send and they ship this 175 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 2: oil from Venezuela mostly through this Iranian technical support, and 176 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 2: it end ups in China. China received this oil, that 177 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 2: is sign oil. They receive this oil at a discount. 178 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 2: So for example, if a battle of brand oil costs 179 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:11,560 Speaker 2: sixty dollars, then they receive it at forty five or 180 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 2: roughly fifteen dollars of discount, and then this discount becomes 181 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:19,680 Speaker 2: profit for them. They rebrand the oil and then they 182 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 2: sell the oil through international market. So this is why 183 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:27,440 Speaker 2: you create these corruption supply chain. That oil is just 184 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:32,119 Speaker 2: an example, but Venezuela has gold, so there is irregular 185 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 2: groups controlling the gold mines in Venezuela and it happens 186 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:41,560 Speaker 2: at all levels, from big business to medium business. The 187 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:44,680 Speaker 2: mentality of these regimes is just to take away anything 188 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 2: that can be profitable and to put them in their 189 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:51,440 Speaker 2: own pockets. Before you set something very important, which is 190 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 2: that people sometimes think that the government can run parts 191 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:59,679 Speaker 2: of the economy, and the economy is so complex. Anybody 192 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 2: who have the business understands this complexity because even if 193 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:06,440 Speaker 2: you have a small logistics business or if you have 194 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 2: a financial business. I work a lot on financial issues, 195 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 2: and really to develop these expertise, it takes you years 196 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 2: to understand even the smallest details. You talk about manufacture, 197 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 2: the profit margins. The logistics is so complex that imagine 198 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:26,960 Speaker 2: if you put politicians that have never worked done in 199 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:31,559 Speaker 2: that industry. So that was that's why Venezuela became a 200 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 2: collapse economy, because when you put people to run these companies, 201 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 2: not only because of corruption, but also because of they 202 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 2: don't know the field. The end of bankrupting these economies. 203 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 1: Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on 204 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 1: a Tutor Dixon podcast. This is the story that I 205 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:54,280 Speaker 1: think Americans are not hearing. So they hear the story 206 00:12:54,480 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 1: of Donald Trump going in this operation was kind of 207 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 1: unprecedented to think that they were able to go in 208 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 1: in the middle of the night, take him out of 209 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:11,680 Speaker 1: his bedroom, and lose no American service members. It was 210 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 1: pretty much a miracle to be able to do that. 211 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 1: I mean, this is impressive, and it's been The mixed 212 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 1: reviews of this have been interesting because Democrats have not 213 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:27,080 Speaker 1: been able to really come out against this. There have 214 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 1: been some who have come out against it, but even 215 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 1: I'll say, even Anna Navarro on the view, which if 216 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:36,679 Speaker 1: you're familiar with American politics, that's like the place where 217 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:40,959 Speaker 1: any good conservative idea goes to be murdered. And Anna 218 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:44,960 Speaker 1: Navarro even was like, I have friends whose relatives are 219 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 1: political prisoners. We cried, we are so happy. Like, you 220 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 1: can say what you want about this administration, but you 221 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 1: have no idea what this means for the people of Venezuela, 222 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 1: which I thought was a powerful statement coming from someone 223 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:00,839 Speaker 1: who clearly is not on the side of the administration. 224 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:04,719 Speaker 1: So explain to me, from your perspective and from your 225 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 1: experience and family members who have lived there, what is Obviously, 226 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:14,559 Speaker 1: as you've discussed this and you've talked about the destruction there, 227 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 1: I think, gosh, it would be so long to rebuild, 228 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 1: but is this that moment where people have actual hope 229 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 1: that it could be rebuilt. 230 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 2: This is the moment that made every Venezuelans extremely emotional 231 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 2: when they saw this and when they saw Maduro going 232 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 2: to justice, because Maduro was not killed. This operation was 233 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 2: so sophisticated that he's right now facing justice, which is 234 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 2: what all Venezuelans want, because that's why we want in 235 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 2: our country. We want rule of law, we want justice, 236 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 2: we want the courts that work properly. Venezuelans for twenty 237 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 2: seven years have been living in a situation which every 238 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 2: year they see their country going in the r and run. Die. 239 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 2: I grew up in an environment in which I remember 240 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 2: my family just trying because they saw how elections were 241 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 2: stolen every year, or the amount of injustices, like they 242 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 2: closed so many TV stations, they closed so many businesses. 243 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 2: They really put many people in as political prisoners and 244 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 2: they torture them. People like myself had to leave the 245 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 2: country because it was too dangerous for us to be there. 246 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 2: And it's a moment that we all so hope again 247 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 2: because there was a chance that Venezuela would have been 248 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 2: forgotten if another administration was in the US, probably Venezuela 249 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 2: will not be in the situation that we are right now. 250 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 2: There would be a more normalization period between the US 251 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 2: and Venezuela would have been we would have been forgotten 252 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 2: and people like myself, my generation, I was born in 253 00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety six and the Socialist took over in December 254 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety eight. So the only thing that we have 255 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 2: experienced is this type of country that is full of 256 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 2: corruption and is full of injustices, and it's full of 257 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 2: extreme radicalization and extreme rhetoric. So what I think many 258 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 2: people like myself we want is to be able to 259 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:23,239 Speaker 2: rebuild the country and we want to rebuild it. Politically, 260 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 2: we want to rebuild the state. We want to have 261 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 2: good public policies, and we want to rebuild it. Economically, 262 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 2: we want to invest in Venezuela. We want to put 263 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 2: money in Venezuela. We want to bring our expertise or 264 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 2: know how and rebuild the place that we were born. 265 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 2: So I think that's the overall mindset, emotionality that all 266 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 2: Venezuelans have. 267 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 1: When you talk about this, it's been you know, a 268 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: generation that has gone through this, An entire generation grew 269 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: up in this it doesn't when you say that, though, 270 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 1: when you step back, that's not a very long time 271 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 1: for a country to fall to this extent. Twenty seven 272 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:08,640 Speaker 1: years is not a very long time to have a prosperous, 273 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:14,120 Speaker 1: wealthy country go to extreme poverty and brokenness. I mean 274 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:18,960 Speaker 1: when we hear about the entire oil industry, which if 275 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:21,879 Speaker 1: you remember back when you were in school, you learn 276 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:26,239 Speaker 1: what industries are the top industries in different countries, and 277 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:29,199 Speaker 1: you can't lose one, you just can't. It has to 278 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:32,879 Speaker 1: be an ebb and flow of business between your top industries, 279 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:36,640 Speaker 1: and you really, I would say that you really lost 280 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 1: a significant portion of it. I mean, you lost over 281 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 1: two thirds of that industry. But it's not just that 282 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:45,439 Speaker 1: the industry is gone in and of itself. It's that 283 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 1: the oil sites were destroyed, they were completely the to 284 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 1: repair and rebuild, I think they're talking about like tens 285 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:57,879 Speaker 1: of billions of dollars have to go into the oil 286 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:00,959 Speaker 1: industry in Venezuela to bring it back. It's a lesson 287 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,359 Speaker 1: for people in the United States who are saying, let's 288 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:05,480 Speaker 1: do this, let's do this. 289 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 2: It takes a. 290 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 1: Very short period of time to completely destroy a country. 291 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:13,480 Speaker 1: What was Venezuela like before this. 292 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:19,879 Speaker 2: Yes, destroying a country is something that honestly can happen 293 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 2: in just a few years. It takes decades, sometimes centuries 294 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:28,320 Speaker 2: to build something, to build a state, to be the 295 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:35,200 Speaker 2: private sector, to build societal institutions, civil society. But honestly, 296 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 2: in five years your country can become totally different, Your 297 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 2: economy can totally be destroyed in a matter of a 298 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:48,280 Speaker 2: few years. Because I think that's everything in life. You 299 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:51,159 Speaker 2: can destroy a business very fast, but build the business 300 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 2: is very difficult. You can destroy a marriage very fast, 301 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:59,239 Speaker 2: but building that marriage is very difficult. And life is 302 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 2: like that of business. 303 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:03,159 Speaker 1: You can gain weight really fascinating, you can't get rid 304 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 1: of it, and that one we all know that is true. 305 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:08,919 Speaker 2: By the way, so you can go to Christmas and 306 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:12,960 Speaker 2: gain a lot of weight. So I totally agree on that. 307 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:17,399 Speaker 2: But so that's the way life is. And you know, 308 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:21,880 Speaker 2: even I have an interesting personal story. So I left 309 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:24,640 Speaker 2: Venezuela first time in twenty and fifteen, so I did 310 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:28,119 Speaker 2: university in the US. The last time I came to 311 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 2: Venezuela was twenty and sixty sixteen, and then it came 312 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:35,440 Speaker 2: back during the pandemic in twenty twenty. In four years, 313 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:42,120 Speaker 2: my country became irrecognizable for me because imagine all the 314 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 2: stores that you used to go, all the places you 315 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:48,200 Speaker 2: used to hang out, These places are no longer there. 316 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 2: The people that I used to see are now living 317 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:55,639 Speaker 2: in different countries. So everything is extremely different, and the 318 00:19:55,720 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 2: people's perception of reality, people's oceans, people's ideas are totally 319 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 2: different in those four years. Then I left again in 320 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 2: twenty twenty one and I have not been there since then, 321 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:12,439 Speaker 2: but based on the conversations I have, the country really 322 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:16,360 Speaker 2: changes a lot. So Venezuela used to be very prosperous, 323 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 2: used to be a good country, with many difficulties like 324 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:23,800 Speaker 2: every country has, but you cannot solve these difficulties with 325 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:27,960 Speaker 2: the wrong ideas, and in Venezuela suddenly the wrong ideas. One. 326 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 1: Let me ask you the dangers of China being involved 327 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 1: in South America in general. We know that they have 328 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 1: recently built ports there. They have three, one I believe 329 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:43,359 Speaker 1: is in Venezuela and Venezuela, they have one in Peru, 330 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:48,400 Speaker 1: one in Chile. So we've seen them building ports so 331 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:52,359 Speaker 1: that they can be partners in South America. We've also 332 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:56,439 Speaker 1: seen their military growing. They have the largest navy in 333 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 1: the world. I know our president in the United States 334 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:02,119 Speaker 1: has said that we're going to start building ships again. 335 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:05,680 Speaker 1: What we don't like to talk about is we need 336 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 1: to build ships again because China has more ships than 337 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:12,199 Speaker 1: anybody else in the entire world. They've been also getting 338 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:17,639 Speaker 1: bases closer to the United States in South America. What 339 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:21,199 Speaker 1: is the danger of the connection that China now has 340 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 1: to South America instead of the United States having that connection. 341 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:27,960 Speaker 2: It's a very dangerous situation, and I think it's a 342 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:34,000 Speaker 2: big problem for the US primarily. And that's why Venezuela 343 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:38,480 Speaker 2: became so important, I believe because Venezuela became a hope 344 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:43,160 Speaker 2: for China, for Iran, for this kind of for Cubans, 345 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,400 Speaker 2: for this kind of for Syrians. By the way, these 346 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 2: kind of regimes saw a home a hope in Venezuela, 347 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 2: and they can become a source of instability in the region. 348 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:58,119 Speaker 2: They can become a source of problems. I think the 349 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 2: Chinese threat is being taken into consideration very well by 350 00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 2: the Trump administration. I think they really understand that they 351 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 2: need to protect their hemisphere, their neighborhood in Latin America 352 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 2: from their biggest adversary, which is China. China was moving 353 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 2: very fast in Venezuela and in general has been in 354 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 2: Latin America. But Trump has decided to revive the Monroe doctrine, 355 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:34,159 Speaker 2: which is this idea that the American continent belongs in 356 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 2: a way to the security architecture of Americans. And I 357 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 2: think that's a very important step forward because for too long, 358 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 2: the US was more focused in regions that were far 359 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 2: away from its borders. And I believe that most of 360 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 2: the problems that the US has, or many of them, 361 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 2: can be solved with a more secure, more prosperous, and 362 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:01,440 Speaker 2: more democratic Latin America. Because if you think about the 363 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:04,960 Speaker 2: drug dealing problem, if you think about the migration problem, 364 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:09,119 Speaker 2: if you think about the lack of diversity in supply chains, 365 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,520 Speaker 2: if you think about a lack of demand for American 366 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 2: run products, all these issues can be solved if you 367 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:22,360 Speaker 2: have a closer and more interconnected and a stronger region 368 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 2: as a whole. So that's why the geopolitical shift that 369 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 2: we see now I believe makes a lot of strategic sense. 370 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,439 Speaker 1: Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on 371 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:39,880 Speaker 1: a Tutor Dixon podcast. We saw this kind of industrial 372 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 1: revolution where we were moving products overseas. They first went 373 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: to Japan, that was our low cost source. Then everything 374 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 1: moved to India and China. China saw this as a 375 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:54,359 Speaker 1: huge opportunity. They have so many people, they have so 376 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 1: much land. They started to build factories. We became very 377 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:01,199 Speaker 1: entrenched in having all of our products, including some of 378 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,720 Speaker 1: our military products, being built in a country that is 379 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 1: an adversarial country. There was and I've talked about this 380 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,399 Speaker 1: for years, that that manufacturing we've seen a lot of 381 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: it build up in Brazil, but that manufacturing should be 382 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,160 Speaker 1: in Latin America, that that should be the place where 383 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:20,719 Speaker 1: we are rather than in an adversarial country. And there 384 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:24,160 Speaker 1: was pushback, Well, there's so much crime, there's so many drugs, 385 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:28,160 Speaker 1: there's you know, China's getting there anyway, and we don't 386 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:31,400 Speaker 1: want to. We we feel safe. China does a good 387 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,199 Speaker 1: job of making you feel safe because you know, if 388 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 1: you commit a crime, they just arrest you where they 389 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:37,560 Speaker 1: cut off your hand, or they throw you in jail, 390 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:39,880 Speaker 1: or they kill you. You know, like there's not the respect 391 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,959 Speaker 1: for human life in China. So there's there's not crime 392 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:45,920 Speaker 1: because they can do whatever they want to criminals, which 393 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 1: I understand the attraction. As a manufacturer, we get. You know, 394 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 1: we have workers that are there every day. We can 395 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,920 Speaker 1: build dormitories. They're forced to stay there. But it's kind 396 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,879 Speaker 1: of sick when you think about how factories are built 397 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:02,440 Speaker 1: in China whereas you could have. And I would say 398 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 1: also that I think that the religious culture in Latin 399 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:10,119 Speaker 1: America is similar to the religious culture in the United States, 400 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 1: and therefore you have people like minded people in your businesses. 401 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 1: I would think that that would be a much better 402 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:25,160 Speaker 1: way to expand and grow manufacturing from an American's perspective, 403 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:27,680 Speaker 1: if you can't bring it all back to the United States, 404 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 1: which you can't. If we're being honest. 405 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:34,639 Speaker 2: You make complete sense on all this. And you mentioned 406 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:39,440 Speaker 2: this cultural aspect in Latin America. When people will go 407 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:43,360 Speaker 2: and watch the movies, they watch American movies. They will 408 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 2: listen in the same music. We have, the same day 409 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:50,480 Speaker 2: to day life. We are extremely similar in many ways. 410 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 2: We are most of our people are either Christians or 411 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:57,480 Speaker 2: Catholics in Christians in general, so there is this interconnection 412 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 2: besides the geography location that we share. So I think 413 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 2: it makes a lot of sense. And this idea of 414 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:12,400 Speaker 2: giving away your manufacturer production to countries that are your 415 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:16,320 Speaker 2: adversaries the way that the US has done or that 416 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:20,439 Speaker 2: Europe has done. For example, in Europe, the situation is 417 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 2: even worse because they depend in their energy to their 418 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 2: adversaries as well. So their own energy dependence, their manufacturer 419 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:33,960 Speaker 2: dependence make them geopolitically extremely weak. So the US woke 420 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,679 Speaker 2: up to this reality, and as you mentioned, is something 421 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,720 Speaker 2: that can be done, and it should be done. And 422 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:44,920 Speaker 2: I think for economic reasons and for geopolitical and security reasons. 423 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 1: And don't you think that when you look at what 424 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 1: has happened in China, when you see what they've done 425 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 1: to other humans, you look at I mean the weager 426 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 1: situation that human rights, it's like, why do other countries 427 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,720 Speaker 1: want Why shouldn't we be saying we're pulling from them 428 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,120 Speaker 1: and we're going to build up an area that wouldn't 429 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 1: commit human rights violations. That seems like a pretty natural instinct. 430 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 2: Yes, from a personal perspective, some my friends know this, 431 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 2: but I don't buy anything that is made in China, 432 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 2: any of my clothes, anything that I use, anything that 433 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,119 Speaker 2: I can buy from my house. Because even though you 434 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:29,879 Speaker 2: can pay a small price hike for doing so in 435 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 2: China you have these horrible labor conditions, as you mentioned, 436 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:38,399 Speaker 2: these horrible human rights conditions. It's just not the best 437 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 2: place to do business or to be with. So I 438 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,359 Speaker 2: think if we really represent our values and we really 439 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:48,480 Speaker 2: believe in democracy, we really need to move away from 440 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:50,679 Speaker 2: being so intertwined with China. 441 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 1: The last thing I want to ask you about is 442 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 1: China doesn't have natural resources when it comes to oil. 443 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:02,119 Speaker 1: Isn't that? I mean there burning coal? They certainly have 444 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,159 Speaker 1: a lot of coal plants. They build new coal plants 445 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:05,720 Speaker 1: all the time. For all of us who are so 446 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 1: worried about coal plants and climate change, here the other 447 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:13,199 Speaker 1: side of the world is building one every day. What 448 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 1: is the danger of allowing them to have access so 449 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,720 Speaker 1: much access? Because right now they control a lot of 450 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,760 Speaker 1: our natural resources. When it comes to what we use 451 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,400 Speaker 1: in electric vehicles and batteries and all of these things 452 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:31,320 Speaker 1: in our phones. They control those resources that we need, 453 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,680 Speaker 1: those minerals that we need. Why should we allow them 454 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 1: to control the largest source of oil in Latin America. 455 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 2: The dependence on China for the critical minerals, the rare 456 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 2: airth minerals that country needs is something that people should 457 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 2: have way more in their radar. In Europe, for example, 458 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 2: their reliance when it comes to critical minerals rare minerals 459 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:03,280 Speaker 2: on China, it's almost one hundred percent. If you go 460 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 2: to places like Congo where they have most of they 461 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 2: have these fields of rare minerals, they're all controlled by China. 462 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 2: And China is also moving fast when it comes to 463 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:20,920 Speaker 2: all the minerals present in Latin America, and for people 464 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 2: that do not know, like sixty percent of these minerals 465 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,800 Speaker 2: are in a few countries at the south of South America, 466 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:33,960 Speaker 2: and these minerals are critical in all this electrification of 467 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 2: our economy, in all this energy transition of our economy. 468 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 2: Without these minerals, we cannot produce electric batteries, we cannot 469 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 2: produce solar panels, we cannot produce all these things that 470 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 2: we need now. And China has been moving really fast 471 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 2: and controlling those in all parts, in all regions in Africa, 472 00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 2: in their own region, in Central Asia, in Latin America, 473 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 2: et ceter So when it comes to oil, I believe 474 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,360 Speaker 2: that their plan was similar in Venezuela. In fact, they 475 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 2: were doing it already indirectly. So I believe that it 476 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,960 Speaker 2: is also a wake up goal that the West has 477 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 2: to find ways to invest way more aggressively in energy. 478 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,600 Speaker 2: In general. Energy is one of those areas in which 479 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 2: the economy of today, the modern economy runs through energy. 480 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:33,320 Speaker 2: The demand of energy will double in the next decade, 481 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 2: especially because of the rise of AI centers. So because 482 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:40,720 Speaker 2: of that, you really need to have new ways of 483 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 2: bringing more energy to your economy and more ways to 484 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 2: distribute that energy more efficiently so that way there is 485 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 2: less energy wasted. But to do that you need a plan, 486 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 2: You need an strategy, and part of that is to 487 00:30:56,360 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 2: have your sources of these minerals in a good way 488 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,280 Speaker 2: and in a safe way. And if they are control 489 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:07,040 Speaker 2: by China, which is your adversary, then you are not 490 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,000 Speaker 2: safe as a country. 491 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,640 Speaker 1: This is what I think people have been missing for 492 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:16,720 Speaker 1: so long, and this is what I think President Trump understands. 493 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,800 Speaker 1: I wish the administration would do a better job of 494 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:23,520 Speaker 1: explaining why these are this is so important, and why 495 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 1: this partnership is more important than having China just take over. 496 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:31,080 Speaker 1: China could damage the entire world if they were able 497 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 1: to get a hold of Latin America in general, and 498 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:36,360 Speaker 1: I think that they would absolutely do that. If they 499 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,880 Speaker 1: could try. I appreciate so much your insight on this, 500 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,520 Speaker 1: because this is something I've been saying for a long time, 501 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 1: and I feel like people get in this mindset of 502 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:50,760 Speaker 1: America first. They're like, oh, America first means America only. Well, no, America. 503 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:54,680 Speaker 1: To continue to be a powerful country, America has to 504 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:58,040 Speaker 1: be involved in all of these different areas. I think 505 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 1: people confuse foreign paul and foreign partnerships as looking away 506 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 1: from the American people. But my gosh, there could be 507 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 1: nothing more dangerous than looking away from other countries and 508 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:14,800 Speaker 1: allowing them to be conquered or destroyed by our adversaries. 509 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:17,680 Speaker 2: It's completely true what you were saying. And we live 510 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:21,200 Speaker 2: in a world in which everything is interconnected. You have 511 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 2: from other countries, these energy threats, you have cybersecurity threats. 512 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:31,560 Speaker 2: Your economic relations and your economic growth depends on other countries. 513 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:36,239 Speaker 2: And America cannot be like Switzerland or Austria or these 514 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:40,160 Speaker 2: kind of small countries. In fact, if all countries behave 515 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 2: like that, we will have these bigger, more aggressive countries 516 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:48,080 Speaker 2: taking the entire world. America has a special role because 517 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 2: of its size, because of its magnitude, and this is 518 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 2: not only good for the world. It is good for Americans. 519 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:59,800 Speaker 2: Americans have prospered under this world order in which the 520 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:04,720 Speaker 2: mocroses are there to do partnerships, to do business with 521 00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:08,240 Speaker 2: the US. So for these people that really care about America, 522 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:12,360 Speaker 2: fairst which of course is something understandable foreign policy, and 523 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,600 Speaker 2: to have a good foreign policy is essential for a 524 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 2: good America. 525 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:21,960 Speaker 1: That's absolutely true. Thank you so much, Jorge Jisati. It's 526 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:26,240 Speaker 1: been wonderful having you on. I really enjoyed our conversation. Likewise, 527 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:28,800 Speaker 1: thank you and thank you all for joining us on 528 00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:31,520 Speaker 1: the Tutor Dixon podcast. For this episode and others, go 529 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:35,200 Speaker 1: to Tutor dixonpodcast dot com, the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 530 00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts, and you can always 531 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,560 Speaker 1: watch it on Rumble or YouTube at Tutor Dixon. But 532 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 1: make sure you join us and have a blessed day.