WEBVTT - Wrong Man Sent To Prison For Murder of Girlfriend, Othram DNA Solves Catches Real Killer 0:00:01.400 --> 0:00:06.640 Quody bags with Joseph's gotten more. The worst job I 0:00:06.840 --> 0:00:12.639 ever had was working in a grocery store. I hated it. 0:00:12.720 --> 0:00:16.760 I hated every single day I went to work. And 0:00:17.040 --> 0:00:20.680 I think probably one of the reasons I hated that 0:00:20.800 --> 0:00:27.600 job so much is, first off, it was labor intensive. 0:00:27.760 --> 0:00:30.400 I was very young, so they had me on the 0:00:30.400 --> 0:00:33.400 front and bag. This is back when people actually bagged 0:00:33.400 --> 0:00:36.120 groceries and took them out to your car for you. 0:00:37.360 --> 0:00:43.040 I hated that, and I'm not a big people person, 0:00:44.080 --> 0:00:48.199 so you know, it wasn't my thing back then. And 0:00:48.240 --> 0:00:50.600 then I hated having to come in at three point 0:00:50.600 --> 0:00:54.320 thirty in the morning to unload trucks. I didn't mind 0:00:54.400 --> 0:00:59.000 so much doing the stocking. I just hated unloading the trucks. 0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:05.040 I really did. And my god, the managers horrible, horrible. 0:01:06.440 --> 0:01:10.399 But that was many decades ago, and here I am now. 0:01:12.080 --> 0:01:15.280 But you know, I want to talk about a case 0:01:15.360 --> 0:01:20.960 today that actually originates by a relationship that was formed 0:01:22.080 --> 0:01:29.240 in a Kroger supermarket. I guess love bloomed, but unfortunately 0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:37.240 it ended in homicide. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this 0:01:38.160 --> 0:01:43.520 his body backs. Did you ever have stock shells? Dave 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:46.760 get Did you ever have one of those jobs? 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:51.640 Joe, I am one of those people who I had 0:01:51.680 --> 0:01:53.800 an idea of what I wanted to do with my life, 0:01:53.920 --> 0:01:56.800 what career path I wanted to be on, and then 0:01:57.120 --> 0:01:59.480 found a way to begin doing it at the age 0:01:59.480 --> 0:01:59.960 of fourteen. 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:01.480 That was to be on radio. 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:05.720 And I actually wanted to be on the radio doing 0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:09.680 baseball games, calling them, you know, yeah on first and second, 0:02:09.720 --> 0:02:12.520 no outs, bottom of the ninth, Joseph Scott Morgan steps in. 0:02:13.280 --> 0:02:17.560 That's what I wanted to do and with yeah, because 0:02:17.600 --> 0:02:19.680 I didn't think playing ball was going to work out 0:02:19.720 --> 0:02:23.080 for me. So anyway, I did that. And I've actually 0:02:23.120 --> 0:02:25.320 I said it many times. I've actually never had a 0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:28.799 real job. I've worked in radio or in my entire life. 0:02:28.840 --> 0:02:32.400 So well, I got to tell you my goal when 0:02:32.440 --> 0:02:34.560 I was a little boy, I wanted to be an archaeologist. 0:02:34.600 --> 0:02:38.040 I always that was because I love history. I do 0:02:38.200 --> 0:02:42.239 like I love digging in the dirt, which I got 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:46.399 to do, you know, helping helping forensic anthropologists throughout the years. 0:02:46.440 --> 0:02:48.799 They called me a professional when I go out there, 0:02:50.320 --> 0:02:53.000 cease being a death investigator and I became a shove leaner, 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:58.560 which means that if you're working around forensic anthropologist slash archaeologist, 0:02:59.200 --> 0:03:01.519 you're there to do their scut work. And so I'd 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:03.920 be taking the shovelfuls of soul and putting it into 0:03:03.919 --> 0:03:05.600 the sifter and. 0:03:05.320 --> 0:03:07.040 What you called it, a shovel leaner. 0:03:07.320 --> 0:03:10.880 A shovel leaner. Yeah, yeah, so okay, most of the 0:03:10.880 --> 0:03:13.440 time that's applied to people from the dot, you know, 0:03:13.480 --> 0:03:16.360 they're leaning on shovels. Yeah, I was. I was a 0:03:16.400 --> 0:03:20.239 professional shovel leaner. But yeah, not too many roads lead 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:23.760 away from the local pigley wiggly to a career in archaeology. 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:27.280 So unfortunately I had I had to start, I had 0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:30.000 to start out there. But it put gas in my car, right, 0:03:30.080 --> 0:03:32.000 you know, so I am grateful for it, but it 0:03:32.040 --> 0:03:35.320 was it was probably I preferred. I really did prefer 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:37.800 working in the moork to work in the grocery store. Yeah, 0:03:37.960 --> 0:03:38.680 I really did. 0:03:39.240 --> 0:03:42.320 I respect people that have those jumps, yeah, because I 0:03:42.440 --> 0:03:46.560 know that it's like, I don't know what it's like 0:03:46.640 --> 0:03:49.160 clocking in, and I'm thankful for that. I worked hard 0:03:49.240 --> 0:03:52.240 to not clock in. I worked hard for that. But 0:03:52.880 --> 0:03:55.640 I've admired people who do that, can go in and 0:03:55.680 --> 0:03:58.080 do something like that day in and day out and 0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:02.160 find satisfaction and and build from it. And in this case, 0:04:02.440 --> 0:04:05.760 we're actually dealing with a young couple. We're talking late teens, 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:10.280 and they meet at a Kroger and they actually are 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:13.480 they're in this really lovey dovey stage, the kind where 0:04:13.520 --> 0:04:17.200 people are really infatuated with one another and they're just 0:04:17.279 --> 0:04:20.680 old enough where they're outside of that puppy love you 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:23.600 get when you're fourteen and fifteen before you can drive, 0:04:24.400 --> 0:04:27.160 and you know, that's a different infatuation than it is 0:04:27.200 --> 0:04:29.080 when you're nineteen twenty years old. You're out of high 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:31.680 school and you're in college or moving forward with your 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:35.680 adult life. And so when you're in that infatuated state, 0:04:36.200 --> 0:04:38.360 it can kind of be sickening for those who are 0:04:38.400 --> 0:04:39.119 not in that state. 0:04:39.520 --> 0:04:43.080 Come on, you know it, just stop. 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:47.599 That's where they were, and that's where this couple, Andrea 0:04:47.680 --> 0:04:52.840 Ilberg and her boyfriend Casey Grondin, that was where they 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:56.239 were in their relationship. They were in that lovey dovey 0:04:57.040 --> 0:04:58.920 I can't stand to be a minute. You know, where 0:04:58.920 --> 0:05:01.320 they'd like go to sleep holding the phone kind of thing, 0:05:01.480 --> 0:05:03.840 you know, right right on their pillow. 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:04.400 That. 0:05:04.640 --> 0:05:07.279 Yeah, So anyway, for those. 0:05:07.120 --> 0:05:10.400 Well hey, wait, hang on now, I remember falling asleep 0:05:10.480 --> 0:05:13.359 on the phone talking to Kim when we were in 0:05:13.360 --> 0:05:19.640 that dating phase, and it you know, now she just says, 0:05:19.839 --> 0:05:22.200 you know, I'll fill her elbow and she said, do 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:27.120 you hear anything I said? Are you awake? You know 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:29.960 it's gone from you know, that was so sweet to 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:35.240 you know, are you listening? So yeah, you know, it changes, 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:37.479 like you said, man, it changes over time and it 0:05:37.520 --> 0:05:40.080 goes through phases like that. But I don't think this 0:05:40.160 --> 0:05:47.039 relationship necessarily worked out the way. Maybe both individuals planned 0:05:47.040 --> 0:05:48.640 for it too. They were kind of a strange And 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:53.080 by the way, this this actually happened a loath these 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:58.400 many years ago, to the east of Flint, Michigan, in 0:05:58.440 --> 0:06:04.440 a town called Mayfield Township. Sounds very Mayberry like to me. 0:06:05.839 --> 0:06:07.640 You're actually talking about, like, man, what a week and 0:06:07.720 --> 0:06:11.800 a half, two weeks before Thanksgiving twenty eleve and Andrea 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:16.120 is house sitting for her aunt and uncle. And you know, 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:18.520 that's one of those things that you know, people do 0:06:18.600 --> 0:06:21.960 still do, I guess in certain areas, you know, And 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:24.120 she's there and she's got her boyfriend. Hey, you come on, 0:06:24.160 --> 0:06:27.120 you know, she's like, what nineteen twenty years old and 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:30.080 he's nineteen, and hey, come on over and let's watch 0:06:30.080 --> 0:06:31.920 a movie. You know, I got the house to myself, 0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:34.080 come on right, right, Yeah, And that was their plan, 0:06:34.240 --> 0:06:38.320 and so he's all excited about it. Casey is and 0:06:38.360 --> 0:06:42.240 he gets a message from her saying, you know, no, 0:06:42.320 --> 0:06:46.520 it's off. Don't want to do it. And it was like, 0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:48.240 because he went to the door, I think, didn't He 0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:49.800 go to the home and knocks on the door. She 0:06:49.839 --> 0:06:52.200 doesn't answer. Her car's don't answer. Yeah, it doesn't answer 0:06:52.200 --> 0:06:54.880 at all. Yeah, And he's like, I'm at the right address, 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:56.920 you know. And then he gets a text message from 0:06:56.920 --> 0:06:58.960 her phone that says, I'm not going to do it. 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:01.880 We're not doing this to and so he left and 0:07:01.880 --> 0:07:04.680 he was so disappointed he thought she was breaking up 0:07:04.680 --> 0:07:07.120 with him that he said he went home to his 0:07:07.160 --> 0:07:09.680 house and basically crawled in bedd and cried. 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:10.360 For three days. 0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:14.840 Now nineteen year old man saying he went home and 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:18.520 crawled in bed and cried for three days. Gotta be honest, Joe, 0:07:19.320 --> 0:07:21.080 that's not something I would admit to. 0:07:21.840 --> 0:07:26.360 But you know, I don't. I don't think so maybe 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:28.520 for a couple of hours, I don't know, but not 0:07:29.640 --> 0:07:32.880 for a protracted period of time like that. Plus all 0:07:32.880 --> 0:07:36.200 that crying leaves you quite dehydrated as well. So I 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:39.560 just I don't think. I don't I don't see myself 0:07:40.080 --> 0:07:43.840 doing that. And look, I know that you know, these events, 0:07:43.880 --> 0:07:47.360 particularly when you're young, can be absolutely soul crushing. And 0:07:47.760 --> 0:07:51.760 this is another thing. When you're that young, you are 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:57.320 not sophisticated enough to actually read the room. That you're 0:07:57.400 --> 0:08:00.760 easily fooled. And I think a lot of it. And 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:03.480 I guess you don't necessarily have to be young to 0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:07.480 have that happen. But when love is involved and you're vulnerable, 0:08:08.000 --> 0:08:10.560 you know, you you know, your heart is like an 0:08:10.600 --> 0:08:14.720 open target, so it can really, you know, it can 0:08:14.880 --> 0:08:18.040 really impact you to a great degree. And of course, 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:20.720 you know, Dave, what do we always talk about? What 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:23.200 do we always talk about? Man? And I've preached this 0:08:23.240 --> 0:08:29.360 over and over again relative to suspects, you're going to 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:32.720 be looking at those intimate partners, you know, in any 0:08:32.800 --> 0:08:36.880 kind of case. So this young man, this young man, 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:40.720 you know that he's let everybody know that he was 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:43.160 involved in a relationship. And let me tell you one 0:08:43.160 --> 0:08:46.560 more thing about the grocery store. All right, everybody at 0:08:46.600 --> 0:08:48.640 the grocery store would have known that they were in 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:52.600 a relationship. They're not like keeping the secret. Families know 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:55.920 all of this sort of thing. But Dave, I got 0:08:55.920 --> 0:08:59.200 to tell you this. This takes a dark turn really 0:08:59.240 --> 0:08:59.959 really quickly. 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:02.560 And well, okay, you know what she doesn't all right. 0:09:03.480 --> 0:09:05.320 I want to go back to Casey for just a minute, 0:09:05.360 --> 0:09:07.559 because he expected them to have a really nice date 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:10.000 night and it ends up being she's not there, her 0:09:10.040 --> 0:09:13.440 car's not there at the house, and so in his mind, 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:15.640 she's breaking up with me because he got a text 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:18.240 an hour later, you know, and he goes and cries. 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:21.280 Well, when nobody can get up with her. The last 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:23.360 text from her phone was to him. He said, it 0:09:23.400 --> 0:09:23.880 wasn't a. 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:26.200 Normal text from her, and that's kind of what sent 0:09:26.320 --> 0:09:27.959 him in the direction he went. 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:29.840 But the thing is is that. 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:34.800 When nobody could get up with her the next day, 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:37.160 her dad was like, we got to find her. You know, 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:39.839 she's not answering her phone, she's not at the house, 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:42.040 and her car is not here either, so they began 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:46.440 looking for her right away. It wasn't where I'm trying 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:48.680 to think of how we go through the expression of 0:09:48.800 --> 0:09:50.400 you got to wait a couple of days, you know, 0:09:50.440 --> 0:09:53.199 before you really start looking. This was pretty quick because 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:55.400 she was twenty years old, and she was connected, and 0:09:55.440 --> 0:09:57.800 she did have this boyfriend she was really infatuated with. 0:09:58.040 --> 0:10:00.320 So when she's not where she's supposed to be, how sitting, 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:03.679 her car's not there, there was an immediate let's go 0:10:03.760 --> 0:10:07.599 find her. Now, my first thought would have been go 0:10:07.720 --> 0:10:09.960 to the house, the house that she's house sitting, and 0:10:10.000 --> 0:10:14.160 go look through that house. But then if her car's 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:15.960 not there and the door is locked, are you going 0:10:16.040 --> 0:10:20.040 to go in? I don't know, because apparently that wasn't 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:23.080 their first thought, they being those who decided to look 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:26.959 for her. But early the next day, her car was 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:31.800 found abandoned on a nearby road, and that's when when 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:34.679 they realized her how her car was abandoned, Then we 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:36.360 need to go look in the house, and that's what 0:10:36.400 --> 0:10:39.160 they did, and they went inside the house and what 0:10:39.240 --> 0:10:41.959 they found was the type of horrific thing you take 0:10:42.080 --> 0:10:45.920 to your grave, you never forget the site that that 0:10:46.080 --> 0:10:48.560 those and I don't know. That doesn't say exactly who 0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:53.160 found her, Joe, and I'm wondering, I'm guessing it had 0:10:53.160 --> 0:10:54.520 to be somebody very close to her. 0:10:54.679 --> 0:10:57.800 Yeah, and immediately, you know, you would call the police. 0:10:57.840 --> 0:11:01.640 Can you imagine the horror that would run through your veins, 0:11:02.280 --> 0:11:05.079 that would make the hair on the back of your 0:11:05.120 --> 0:11:13.440 neck stand up, that would literally crush your soul to 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:20.440 see this beautiful young woman tied to a chair in 0:11:20.520 --> 0:11:25.760 the basement of her aunt and uncle's home, having sustained 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:31.160 an execution style gunshot wound to the back of the head. 0:11:44.120 --> 0:11:47.280 You know, I've never had anyone ask me this question. However, 0:11:47.400 --> 0:11:49.480 I will give you the answer to the question that 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:52.040 no one has ever asked me. What would be my preference? 0:11:53.200 --> 0:11:57.240 Endoor scene, outdoor scene, endoor scene. Every time for me, 0:11:58.800 --> 0:12:05.520 it goes to this idea of containment, and you almost 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:09.880 have an indwelling barrier that's set up to a certain 0:12:09.920 --> 0:12:18.600 degree that prevents loss of any kind of evidence. You 0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:22.360 have to think, though, with this young lady, and from 0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:26.240 what we know from this horrible homicide that took place 0:12:26.360 --> 0:12:34.120 all the way back in twenty eleven, that there would 0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:39.000 have been a significant amount of trace evidence at the scene, 0:12:40.200 --> 0:12:48.240 either adjacent to her body or throughout the house. And 0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:54.200 they've never really released how extensive her injuries were. We 0:12:54.320 --> 0:12:56.920 do know that she was, and they've termed it as 0:12:57.040 --> 0:13:02.560 being executed essentially after being tied down. Why would you, 0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:05.760 I guess this is a big question. What would be 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:09.880 the purpose behind tying this young woman to a chair 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:17.199 if you just wanted to end her life? What would 0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:20.160 drive a perpetrator to want to sit her down? The 0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:23.400 only thing I can really think of, and I would 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:28.640 imagine that the police did as well, Dave, is they 0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:36.040 would view this as perhaps torture of some kind or 0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:42.240 a I don't know, an inquisition perhaps directed at her. 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:45.679 I'm going to control you. You will remain restrained in 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:48.960 this position. I want answers, and I want them now. 0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:53.880 And if those answers are not given in a satisfactory manner, 0:13:54.800 --> 0:13:57.480 we're going to blow your head off or we're going 0:13:57.559 --> 0:14:01.480 to do grievous harm to you. And that's kind of 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:04.600 what this smacks of. So when you have someone, I mean, 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:07.440 let's fink my theory. Yeah, sure, go ahead. 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:10.680 I thought it was. He's done. 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:14.640 The individual has done whatever they're going to do, and 0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:17.840 they have tied her to this chair to say, look, 0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:20.920 you're not going anywhere. I'm going to leave, okay, And 0:14:21.000 --> 0:14:23.120 once I get done, you can try to get yourself 0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:25.960 out and you can go. But I'm leaving now just 0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:29.280 to calm her down. And then once she's calm and 0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:31.520 realize that he's leaving, boom shot to the back of 0:14:31.560 --> 0:14:31.880 the head. 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:37.200 Yeah, and that's possible. I think one of the things 0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:39.640 I'd like to know that we know that she's bound 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:45.000 to the chair, I'd really like to know if if 0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:54.800 she was, if she was, you know, blindfolded anyway, you know, like, 0:14:55.720 --> 0:14:59.400 for instance, if there was someone that if we go 0:14:59.440 --> 0:15:04.000 with with your idea here that if there was someone 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:09.160 that she knew that was doing this, wouldn't they want 0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:11.800 to blindfold her so that she wouldn't have any knowledge 0:15:11.800 --> 0:15:13.640 of who they were, But that would imply that they 0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:18.400 had taken her by surprise, you know, so that they 0:15:18.440 --> 0:15:21.120 couldn't be identified if they were going to let her 0:15:21.120 --> 0:15:24.760 go free, but she could still recognize voices as well. 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:30.800 And for whatever reason, someone was driven to commit a 0:15:30.800 --> 0:15:34.520 homicide and it's not like she was being there shooting 0:15:34.560 --> 0:15:36.720 her to wound her, Dave, this is a this is 0:15:36.760 --> 0:15:41.520 a headshot, all right. So the intent there is to 0:15:41.800 --> 0:15:44.840 end her life. There's no other way to really, you know, 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:50.000 explain that and contain down there in the basement. That 0:15:50.080 --> 0:15:54.680 also goes to another point. I think, you know, for 0:15:54.760 --> 0:15:57.760 those of us that have basements in our home, the 0:15:57.800 --> 0:16:00.080 sound quality in the basement is not the same as 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:02.400 it is throughout the rest of the house. So if 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:06.080 you take someone into a basement, you're kind of sequestering 0:16:06.080 --> 0:16:08.800 them to a location, you know, because people can shout 0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:11.840 and scream, because you know, many times basements are at 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:16.200 least partially, if not totally, underground, So you're, you know, 0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:21.320 you're kind of insulated from sound escaping. And if you 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:25.520 want to do anything down there involving torture, you can 0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:28.440 because most of the people are not going to hear 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:29.920 it that are in a right now. If you're up 0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:32.080 on the first floor or the second floor, that sound 0:16:32.400 --> 0:16:36.800 has a real chance of traveling out. So would would 0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:39.960 they have known about this? The perpetrator that showed up 0:16:40.000 --> 0:16:43.520 to the house. And remember, if we're talking about intimates, 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:47.720 If we're talking about intimates, this is not her domicile. 0:16:48.680 --> 0:16:52.440 This is actually the domicile of her aunt and uncle. 0:16:52.960 --> 0:16:55.960 So how did the perpetrator know that the house even 0:16:56.000 --> 0:16:58.640 had a basement in it? You see what I'm what 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:02.240 I'm saying a kind of familiarity, you know. 0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:06.320 On my word, No, I you know what, now, I 0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:13.359 understand why this case got messed up because everything that 0:17:13.440 --> 0:17:16.359 you're talking about, Joe, the different things you have to 0:17:16.440 --> 0:17:22.280 expect in an investigation, are still question marks here because 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:25.200 you the only thing we know for sure is twenty 0:17:25.320 --> 0:17:30.639 year old and Andrea Ilbert is dead, tied to a chair, 0:17:30.880 --> 0:17:33.480 shot in the back of the head. That's all we know. 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:38.160 In the basement of the house, which was this somebody 0:17:38.200 --> 0:17:41.760 who was familiar like her boyfriend, somebody who was invited 0:17:41.760 --> 0:17:46.240 over there like her boyfriend, that maybe downstairs was where 0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:49.400 they were going to have a you know, I don't 0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:51.240 know their date, even though she was house sitting, so 0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:52.760 being in the basement really doesn't matter. 0:17:52.800 --> 0:17:54.760 But maybe he's there. 0:17:54.840 --> 0:17:57.359 And I mean, I'm trying to think like you're saying, 0:17:57.480 --> 0:17:59.680 because I can't make sense of it at all. I 0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:03.920 mean at all, Joe, this is really confusing. 0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:07.560 Yeah, it truly is. And of course the first person 0:18:07.800 --> 0:18:11.320 that the police are going to look at is going 0:18:11.359 --> 0:18:15.640 to be this boyfriend. And you know, and once I'm 0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:18.359 sure that once he starts spilling his guts about this, 0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:20.280 and he starts talking about how he felt like he 0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:24.320 was rejected, you know first, you know, right out of 0:18:24.760 --> 0:18:26.679 right out of the gate. You know, they're looking at 0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:31.199 this guy really really hard for this. They're wanting to know. Yeah, 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:33.840 they're they're wanting they're wanting to try to get as 0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:36.639 much information from him as possible, and they're going to 0:18:36.640 --> 0:18:40.440 be assessing the nature of the relationship. And just to 0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:43.719 understand this, if you're doing a history with somebody like this, 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:46.480 you're going to take them back. You know, how did 0:18:46.480 --> 0:18:48.800 you guys first meet? Well, we know that we've established 0:18:48.840 --> 0:18:51.360 that they met at work. How long have you been 0:18:51.400 --> 0:18:55.720 seeing one another? And suddenly the question has become progressively 0:18:56.280 --> 0:19:02.280 more uncomfortable. You know, have you guys been having trouble? 0:19:03.840 --> 0:19:07.280 Have have you gotten into an argument? Did the argument 0:19:07.320 --> 0:19:09.560 is physical? Yeah? Recently recently? 0:19:09.680 --> 0:19:12.040 Yeah, last night you guys got Yeah, you were supposed 0:19:12.040 --> 0:19:14.000 to be over there watching a movie, having date night 0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:16.440 and wait a minute, the text says no. 0:19:17.400 --> 0:19:18.639 So what do you think about that, buddy? 0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:21.400 I mean yeah, And it's an out and out rejection, 0:19:21.640 --> 0:19:23.960 and so you're thinking, if this, if this kid has 0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:27.640 any kind of of anger that's built up over this, 0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:29.920 you know, what was it? We said early on Dave, 0:19:30.000 --> 0:19:32.199 this plays back into it. He goes in, and he 0:19:32.240 --> 0:19:35.280 begins to cry and cries for this long protracted period 0:19:35.280 --> 0:19:38.439 of time by his own admission. Okay, and I know, 0:19:38.880 --> 0:19:40.399 you know, you can make a light of it, but 0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:43.800 if he's wounded, he's wounded emotionally over it. And so 0:19:44.040 --> 0:19:48.040 in rejection, Amen, every every I don't know anybody that 0:19:48.119 --> 0:19:52.040 hasn't been rejected before, and particularly it's a very powerful thing. 0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:57.719 And so you know, the police see see these breadcrumbs 0:19:57.720 --> 0:19:59.320 along the way, They're also going to want to know 0:19:59.560 --> 0:20:02.040 where are you involved in a physical relationship with her? 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:05.480 And again, you know, talking about how things become progressively 0:20:06.000 --> 0:20:08.879 more uncomfortable. Then they go out to all the peripheral people. 0:20:09.280 --> 0:20:12.000 Did you you know here at the front, at the 0:20:12.000 --> 0:20:14.680 front of the store where the cash wrests are, did 0:20:15.520 --> 0:20:17.520 you folks that worked these cash wrestlers, you ever see 0:20:17.520 --> 0:20:20.360 them get into a fight up here? Were they ever 0:20:20.480 --> 0:20:25.280 angry at one another? Did any of that happen? Are 0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:29.280 there any instances? And oh, one more thing, is it 0:20:29.320 --> 0:20:33.280 okay for people to date that work here? Can they date? 0:20:33.359 --> 0:20:35.639 You know? What's the policy about that? That sort of thing? 0:20:35.840 --> 0:20:38.080 So you have to consider every bit of this. But 0:20:38.600 --> 0:20:42.840 Dave I got to tell you when they work this case. 0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:50.480 They worked this case and the boyfriend is identified as 0:20:50.520 --> 0:20:55.040 the number one suspect in this thing. Man, he not 0:20:55.080 --> 0:21:01.200 only was he identified, he was actually arrested. Yep, dude, 0:21:01.240 --> 0:21:04.400 he was charged and convicted on. 0:21:04.320 --> 0:21:06.280 This carrogation video is rough. 0:21:07.480 --> 0:21:12.240 Yeah. Yeah, the you know, the police, the police as 0:21:12.240 --> 0:21:17.159 they're going through this process are pressing him, pressing him, pressing. 0:21:17.960 --> 0:21:25.320 And if you're young and not very worldly, uh, it 0:21:25.400 --> 0:21:30.639 always amazes me that people that want to fight with 0:21:30.760 --> 0:21:36.000 cops on the street to get into you know, these 0:21:36.119 --> 0:21:41.960 verbal verbal contests with cops. You know that you can 0:21:42.000 --> 0:21:46.879 go to there's a technique that's taught that's taught in 0:21:47.560 --> 0:21:50.800 uh and you go. You don't get it necessarily when 0:21:50.800 --> 0:21:53.520 you're going through the academy, but there's actually a course 0:21:53.520 --> 0:21:54.960 that's taught and I remember it very well. 0:21:54.960 --> 0:21:56.000 It's called verbal. 0:21:55.840 --> 0:22:01.320 Judo and it it talks about how to either de 0:22:01.520 --> 0:22:05.720 escalate a situation or how to press the buttons of 0:22:05.760 --> 0:22:09.679 an individual. It's kind of a rudimentary way, you know, 0:22:09.760 --> 0:22:12.600 to do this, and you know, cops make their living 0:22:13.560 --> 0:22:16.800 by doing this. You know, that's why attorneys say keep 0:22:16.800 --> 0:22:19.800 your mouth shut, don't say anything because you're not as 0:22:19.920 --> 0:22:22.040 you'll never be as good as the cops are. There 0:22:22.080 --> 0:22:24.360 might be a few that are out there that can 0:22:24.440 --> 0:22:26.520 go toe to toe with the police, but every time 0:22:26.560 --> 0:22:29.760 you say something, you're adding more fuel to the fire. 0:22:30.359 --> 0:22:33.040 That's why you know, every attorney that I know that's 0:22:33.080 --> 0:22:36.760 a defense attorney is going to say, keep your mouth shut, 0:22:36.840 --> 0:22:39.800 ask for your phone call, and don't agree to anything. 0:22:40.600 --> 0:22:45.359 And unfortunately, in this case, this young man not only 0:22:45.400 --> 0:22:50.240 did he buckle under the pressure, Oh Joe Dave, he 0:22:50.400 --> 0:22:53.840 was convicted and they sent away to the state prison 0:22:54.560 --> 0:22:55.119 for life. 0:22:55.240 --> 0:22:56.800 Joe for life. 0:22:56.880 --> 0:22:58.639 Kim all I could think of, and I wanted to 0:22:58.680 --> 0:23:03.159 ask you this because you know what it looked like. 0:23:03.920 --> 0:23:06.400 You know what it looks like to find somebody tied 0:23:06.440 --> 0:23:07.919 to a chair with a gunshot in the back of 0:23:07.920 --> 0:23:12.679 the head. This nineteen year old kid doesn't. Were the 0:23:12.680 --> 0:23:16.399 detectives able to sit him down in that room and say, 0:23:17.200 --> 0:23:20.679 do you think maybe when she shot you down, that 0:23:20.760 --> 0:23:23.280 you might have blacked out and maybe you did harm 0:23:23.359 --> 0:23:26.360 her and you don't remember it, but maybe it happened, 0:23:26.359 --> 0:23:29.359 and just maybe you did go in there and see 0:23:29.359 --> 0:23:32.919 something and that's caused you to forget all these horrible 0:23:32.960 --> 0:23:35.320 things that you've done because they're telling this kid you 0:23:35.359 --> 0:23:37.280 can go home. Just look, man, we just got to 0:23:37.320 --> 0:23:39.280 get this and you're going to be able to go home. 0:23:39.720 --> 0:23:41.439 And I will tell you this goes back to you 0:23:41.480 --> 0:23:45.000 said lawyers say, don't talk. Here's why this kid you 0:23:45.080 --> 0:23:51.040 said it already. Chart arrested, charged with murder at trial, convicted, 0:23:51.960 --> 0:23:57.040 sentenced to life imprison Joseph Scott Morgan and this kid 0:23:57.080 --> 0:24:00.960 they got him to admit. He wrote down that he 0:24:01.200 --> 0:24:06.040