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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio.

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Speaker 2: News, sports works, live events work. It's glue, it's sticky,

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Speaker 2: it's trash, it's high engagement, it's rooting interest, it's rivalries,

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Speaker 2: it's young, it's sports betting as part of the ecosystem.

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Speaker 2: So they're multitasking like it's a winner. That's where you

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Speaker 2: want to be.

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Speaker 3: So Alex, back in September, we talked with Mark Shapiro

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Speaker 3: and it was a massive day. I have to say

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Speaker 3: it was funny too, because he came in hot, he

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Speaker 3: came in buzzing, and you know, understandably he had been

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Speaker 3: at the New York Stock Exchange that day ringing the

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Speaker 3: bell for TKO, a brand new company. So WWE and

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Speaker 3: UFC coming together, these are two of the biggest brands

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Speaker 3: in sports and entertainment. And I think that's a notable

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Speaker 3: element here because not only is he the president of TKO,

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Speaker 3: he's the president of Endeavor. When you think about the

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Speaker 3: organizations and the people and the partnerships that have had

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Speaker 3: a profound impact on sports, entertainment, culture, media and the

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Speaker 3: money that is all around it, no one's bigger than Endeavor.

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Speaker 3: I don't think this in a lifetime of deals This

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Speaker 3: could have been one of his biggest.

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Speaker 4: Maybe the biggest, and as far as impact, I mean,

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Speaker 4: think about this is like putting the NBA and NFL together,

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Speaker 4: Yeah and calling it TKO or whatever. It was a

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Speaker 4: massive day and something that a lot of people didn't

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Speaker 4: think could be done the art of the impossible.

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Speaker 2: They did.

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Speaker 5: So.

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Speaker 3: One of the best things Alex about catching Mark on

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Speaker 3: this day was this was the first time he could

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Speaker 3: really talk about all the nuances and all the inside

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Speaker 3: politics of this deal. And the characters are unbelievable. Ari Emmanuel,

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Speaker 3: of course, the CEO and found of Endeavor, Mark's partner.

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Speaker 3: He talks about how he first met Ari. That's a

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Speaker 3: great story, but he also talks about how these and

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Speaker 3: you alluded to this seemingly never coming together. People came together,

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Speaker 3: Vince McMahon, Dana White combining their companies into this entertainment

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Speaker 3: sports behemoth.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Jason, when you think about the personalities that you

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Speaker 4: just mentioned, it just tells you a little bit of

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Speaker 4: Mark Shapiro's superpower, which is getting a lot of healthy

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Speaker 4: egos into a room that have strong views and somehow

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Speaker 4: he got them all to play with the same jersey.

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Speaker 3: And also Mark Shapiro himself. I mean, this is a

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Speaker 3: guy who has his fingerprints all over what we know

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Speaker 3: as modern sports media. When it comes to ESPN, he

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Speaker 3: headed programming there, and then he has profound influence on

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Speaker 3: the media at a time when you know, well, media

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Speaker 3: is upside down. It's never been more disrupted, probably since

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Speaker 3: the invention of the television. When you think about streamers,

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Speaker 3: you think about the broadcast networks, and you think about

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Speaker 3: sports and entertainment as part of that.

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Speaker 5: He's got some key decisions to make. You know, he's clearly.

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Speaker 2: One of the chief architects here.

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Speaker 4: I mean what he's done in media landscape. Became a

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Speaker 4: to ESPN as a young wonder child, right, Yeah, he

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Speaker 4: discovered Stephen A.

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Speaker 2: Smith, Right.

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Speaker 4: I call him a five tool player in business, and

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Speaker 4: what that means is he can do it all and

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Speaker 4: then some. On this episode of The Deal Mark Shapiro.

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Speaker 5: Since we talked with Mark Shapiro, the private equity firm

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Speaker 5: Silver Lake revealed plans to take Endeavor private for thirteen

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Speaker 5: billion dollars. Additionally, a former employee sued WWE and Vince

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Speaker 5: McMahon alleging abuse, sexual trafficking, actual assault, and negligence McMahon,

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Speaker 5: who has since resigned from WWE and TKO, denied the

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Speaker 5: allegations in a statement. TKO said the matter predates it's

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Speaker 5: executive team's tenure at the company, that it takes the

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Speaker 5: lawsuits quote horrific allegations very seriously end quote, and is

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Speaker 5: addressing the matter internally.

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Speaker 2: All Right, Mark.

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Speaker 3: Shapiro, huge day, you're here with us. How are you

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Speaker 3: feeling right now? What does it feel like to close

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Speaker 3: this deal?

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Speaker 5: Blur?

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Speaker 2: It's just a blur. I mean, it's you know, a

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Speaker 2: long journey to get here. But in the space of

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Speaker 2: what two and a half years, we've launched two public companies,

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Speaker 2: rang the belt twice the New York Stock Exchange. You know,

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Speaker 2: usually you don't do that even once in your life,

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Speaker 2: let alone in this short span. So you'd like to

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Speaker 2: take a little time to smell the roses and enjoy it.

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Speaker 2: But it's been it's been a hectic day, all right,

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Speaker 2: So take.

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Speaker 5: Us back on this deal.

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Speaker 3: I think we can agree the audacity of this deal,

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Speaker 3: because I think it's fair to say, like this was

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Speaker 3: a marriage that made sense, but the question was could

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Speaker 3: you pull it off?

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Speaker 2: Take us back? I think there's two seminal moments. A

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Speaker 2: couple of years ago, we drove to Stanford the old

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Speaker 2: WWE offices. Nick con had just started and Ari and I.

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Speaker 2: Ari mostly did the talking, and we basically told Vince

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Speaker 2: why we thought we should come together whatever that was

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Speaker 2: going to be. That wasn't necessarily a separate public company

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Speaker 2: at the time, maybe it was just an acquisition of WWE.

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Speaker 2: But everything was on the table. So Ari makes a

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Speaker 2: lot of the pitch. I think he's excited about it.

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure everything comes out as clearly as he

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Speaker 2: wanted it to come out. And we leave there and

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Speaker 2: Vince has zero interest. That was it.

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Speaker 4: How long was a meeting?

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Speaker 2: The meeting was about an hour and it was forty

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Speaker 2: eight minutes of us talking and explaining why this marriage

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Speaker 2: made sense. And that was it. It was over. Now

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Speaker 2: fast forward to somewhere in the last year, we go

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Speaker 2: out to dinner of the Mark Hotel restaurant, you know,

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Speaker 2: at the hotel, Vince, Stephanie, Nick, We make the pitch

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Speaker 2: again in a more casual social setting. Is this private room, Mark,

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Speaker 2: private room? Okay, expensive, private room? Worth it? Yeah exactly?

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Speaker 2: Ari and I didn't eat much. We were doing all

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Speaker 2: the talking.

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Speaker 5: Well, Ari never eats much, but we'll get to that later.

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Speaker 2: That's a disaster, ye, But the energy is still there,

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Speaker 2: so you're good. I thought we have a very good

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Speaker 2: presentation all off the cup. I mean, it's planned what

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Speaker 2: we're going to talk about, but we're not. It's not

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Speaker 2: we're shuffling papers or anything. But can we get to

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Speaker 2: a deal. And you know, everybody's excited, and Stephanie asked

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Speaker 2: some great questions. Nick asked some great questions. Vince says nothing.

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Speaker 2: We leave the meeting now all of a sudden, now

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Speaker 2: a couple weeks later, maybe it's a month later. I

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Speaker 2: got my dates wrong here somewhere, and now Rain's been

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Speaker 2: hired the Merchant Bank to put it up for sale,

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Speaker 2: which brings me to seminal moment number two, which is

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Speaker 2: our meeting at Rain when I know we're getting this right.

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Speaker 2: So a lot of due diligence, a lot of back

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Speaker 2: and forth, a lot of questions, a lot of papers, numbers, analysis,

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Speaker 2: strategic analysis, et cetera. You name it. We go to

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Speaker 2: Rain and we basically tell the Endeavor story, about the

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Speaker 2: Endeavor Flywheel, what we did for UFC. Remember we bought

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Speaker 2: this call it four plus billion, but it was making

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Speaker 2: one hundred and sixty one hundred and seventy million, and

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Speaker 2: now you're talking about a division doing six seven hundred

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Speaker 2: million dollars. I mean three x in the space of

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Speaker 2: you know how many years here.

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Speaker 4: You wrote the playboat base through.

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Speaker 2: You got it. Now again you're back here. We're with RAIN.

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Speaker 2: We're going through the story. Media rights, what we can

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Speaker 2: do in analytics, social content, sponsorship and global partnerships, product

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Speaker 2: licensing with IMG, what we can do there, expanding international

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Speaker 2: direct to consumer. I mean, I'm telling you I walked

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Speaker 2: out of the meeting. We're getting it. Mark.

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Speaker 4: Was there a moment something you or already said that?

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Speaker 4: Vin said, Ahah?

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Speaker 2: Mostly events. Remember IMG owns produces stages, licenses eight hundred

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Speaker 2: events a year, from food to fashion, to art to golf, tennis.

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Speaker 2: I mean all over the globe. There's something going on.

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Speaker 2: And when we took him through how we monetize those events.

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Speaker 2: No dissimilar by the way to a wrestling match for

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Speaker 2: a weekend or wrestle Mania, and how you turn on

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Speaker 2: those different levers. This isn't just about media rights and sponsorship.

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Speaker 2: I mean that's negotiations, that's relationships, it's what you do

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Speaker 2: on the other levels of monetization that really sets you

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Speaker 2: apart as a unicorn.

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Speaker 5: What's Dana saying about this and how much do you

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Speaker 5: bring him into the tent because this is going to

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Speaker 5: dramatically affect his life.

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Speaker 2: That's right, Dana is the greatest partner ever. I mean,

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Speaker 2: he's just a killer in rock ste he is. I mean,

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Speaker 2: he just gets it done. I mean I remember being

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Speaker 2: his I'll remind you I wouldn't put the UFC on

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Speaker 2: the air. I was one of those guys that was like, oh,

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Speaker 2: too dangerous, too much of this, too much blood on

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Speaker 2: the mat, We're not ready for it. Plus, who's my boss,

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Speaker 2: Mickey Mouse? Right, there's no way ESPN was gonna be

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Speaker 2: comfortable with me putting on UFC. But I also had

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Speaker 2: an issue with it. And now look at it. It's mainstream,

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Speaker 2: it's a major, right, we're monetizing it everywhere. Champions are

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Speaker 2: household names. We went to Dana saying, we think one

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Speaker 2: plus one equals five. Are you on board for this?

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Speaker 2: And Dana said, listen, early on, there was no bigger

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Speaker 2: guy in my face than Vince McMahon. Yeah, as I

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Speaker 2: was trying to build this like he was at every corner,

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Speaker 2: stopping me, obstacle roadblock. I've been to WrestleMania and he's

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Speaker 2: been to my fights. And you know what, if you

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Speaker 2: guys tell me this is going to be all that

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Speaker 2: when we put him together, count me in. I trust

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Speaker 2: you guys.

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Speaker 5: All right, Can we talk about Ari absolutely? All right?

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Speaker 2: Oh, one of my favorite subjects.

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Speaker 5: Yes.

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Speaker 2: Look, we're both from Chicago. He's a little older than me,

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Speaker 2: but we really didn't know each other. He went to

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Speaker 2: one of my rival high school's Nutrier, and I was

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Speaker 2: in Glenn View of Glebrick South, and we were on

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Speaker 2: a plane going from New York to LA before he

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Speaker 2: flew private. You're in first class, you know, it's two

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Speaker 2: one two in first class, and I'm in the one

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Speaker 2: and he's in the aisle of the two. So he's

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Speaker 2: next to me, but there's an isle in between us.

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Speaker 2: And I used to use those cross country trips to

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Speaker 2: work on what's called the President's reports. Michael Eisner and

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Speaker 2: Bob Bieger would have every area of the company every

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Speaker 2: month give him a President's report, you know, which is

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Speaker 2: like basically your top ten priorities, your top teen bolts,

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Speaker 2: which is hard for all of ESPN and ABC Sports,

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Speaker 2: But I used it as a real communications tool for

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Speaker 2: the overall company. You want to know what's going on

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Speaker 2: with the company. You want to know the focus, you

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Speaker 2: want to know the priorities. Read the president's report. And

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Speaker 2: so that's what I would do, And I'd spend those

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Speaker 2: whole five and a half hours, and I typed like this,

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Speaker 2: I'm fair by the way very fast, so it doesn't matter,

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Speaker 2: and I don't make a lot of mistakes. Still going

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Speaker 2: like that, I peck the entire time. It's like five hours.

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Speaker 2: It's dark now, and somewhere like forty five minutes or

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Speaker 2: an hour from landing, Ari asks the guy sitting next

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Speaker 2: to me. He gets up and I see him now.

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Speaker 2: Remember it's very dark, but he's on the other side

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Speaker 2: of the Eyeley goes around and he whispers in the

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Speaker 2: guy here, guy's here, but I hear, and he says like,

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Speaker 2: can you get up? Move over there? Oh my okay,

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Speaker 2: And the guy says, excuse me, and all of a

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Speaker 2: sudden he backs up all Ari goldish and says, what

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Speaker 2: don't you understand, Get the fuck up, get over and

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Speaker 2: move into my seat so I can sit there. Okay,

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Speaker 2: First of all, be arrested these days, right, Yeah, But

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Speaker 2: also the guy actually does it instead of saying the

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Speaker 2: guy gets up ari, he sits down, crosses his leg,

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Speaker 2: turns through, he goes, what the fuck are you doing?

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Speaker 2: And that's how we met. Wow, that's how we met.

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Speaker 2: And that's a fast friendship. Oh, we're both from Chicago.

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Speaker 2: We know a lot of the same people, have the

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Speaker 2: same likes, Cubs bears, you're both Cubs fans, story telling, right,

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Speaker 2: similar personalities, and so we got off to a fast start.

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Speaker 4: Mark, going back a little bit to TKO, you have

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Speaker 4: a company, two companies now inside of TKO. They're both

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Speaker 4: juggernauts on their own. One of the things that's really

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Speaker 4: interesting about when you combine UFC and WWA. By the way,

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Speaker 4: I was a massive WWE fan with you know, going

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Speaker 4: back to the whole Coogan days and all Machio Camato

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Speaker 4: on Randy Mayow. My question to you is over a

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Speaker 4: billion fans right combined. I actually think you guys in

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Speaker 4: their early days of how do you serve that consumer?

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Speaker 4: Twenty four to seven, three sixty five, there's so much upside.

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Speaker 2: That's right, So we know we're still building a lot

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Speaker 2: here domestically, but yet there's a lot of international growth

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Speaker 2: for the WWE, and using IMG and the Endeavor platform

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Speaker 2: is the underpinning to get it out there, to make deals,

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Speaker 2: to get you into new territories all the time, in

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Speaker 2: good programming windows on the platforms that matter absolutely key

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Speaker 2: to that growth.

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Speaker 4: Could you ever see integrating both into one mega event,

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Speaker 4: like one event? I still remember Wrestlemingia, which is you know,

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Speaker 4: that's right, win Hulk Hoogan, that's right, the Giant, and

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Speaker 4: I do I.

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Speaker 2: See it potentially as a one event. Potentially, although there

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Speaker 2: are two different audiences. WW is Middle America. It's the

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Speaker 2: show's coming to town, a lot of kids, and it's

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Speaker 2: a slice of Americana. The UFC as an international flavor, right,

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Speaker 2: it's college age and up. It's a big betting sport.

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Speaker 2: Also it's gender neutral because we have a lot of

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Speaker 2: female champions round and Rossey is one of the biggest

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Speaker 2: stars ever to come out of the UFC. And ultimately Brazil,

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Speaker 2: South America. I mean it's you know, it's it's a monster, Canada, Australia.

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Speaker 2: I mean, these are good places to be so I

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Speaker 2: think that there's an opportunity to bring them out Together's

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Speaker 2: opportunity to event, and maybe there's an opportunity to launch

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Speaker 2: your channel with them together. Remember, the WW has its

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Speaker 2: own network, which Peacock now licenses for two hundred and

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Speaker 2: fifty million bucks the Yankees model. Yes, yes, exactly right.

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Speaker 2: We at the UFC have done our own proprietary so

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Speaker 2: we've got a strong sub base that we sell direct

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Speaker 2: to consumer, that could flip flop, that could merge. I

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Speaker 2: think it's all up in the air right now. At

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Speaker 2: the same time, not all the answers are here. We're

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Speaker 2: gonna have to wait till some things play out here,

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Speaker 2: and fortunately we have time because the WW deals are

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Speaker 2: not up until October.

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Speaker 3: Coming up, we discussed how Mark rose from a production

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Speaker 3: assistant to become a key executive who brought ESPN into

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Speaker 3: an entirely new era, plus media rights, and how sports

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Speaker 3: and entertainment have radically changed over the past decade. So

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Speaker 3: let's talk media because you know a little something about that.

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Speaker 5: That's where you started your career literally as a production assistant.

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Speaker 3: If we have that right, like, we don't need to

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Speaker 3: go all the way back, let's actually start here. You

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Speaker 3: said it very well. The media space is upside down disrupted, all.

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Speaker 2: Sorts of.

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Speaker 5: A mess.

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Speaker 3: How do you describe it right now and how do

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Speaker 3: you like not just survive, but thrive in a world

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Speaker 3: that looks like this.

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Speaker 2: I think when Charter. First of all, yes, I've been

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Speaker 2: in the media space for a long time. Let's remember

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Speaker 2: I was in the chair when Chrissy Evert turned the

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Speaker 2: table on Jim Rome. Wow, I was producing that show.

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Speaker 2: Just for the record, so I'm dating myself back to

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Speaker 2: ninety three, but that was my literally first gig in

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Speaker 2: the producer chair, and so I was there for the

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Speaker 2: beginning of ESPN two when they didn't even know it

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Speaker 2: was going to work, let alone how many channels there

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Speaker 2: are now, which of course led to this big fight

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Speaker 2: with Charter. I think when Eiger talked about the new

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Speaker 2: deal with CHARTERI hit it on the head, which is,

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Speaker 2: first of all, we want to be there for the

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Speaker 2: sports fan. That's what matters most, the consumer options choices.

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Speaker 2: But you have to toggle it right now. You still

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Speaker 2: have everyone loves to beat up Linear. I get it,

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Speaker 2: the cords being cut, et cetera, et cetera. Last time

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Speaker 2: I checked, it's still in sixty five million homes. That's

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Speaker 2: a lot of money. That's a lot of eyeballs. That's

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Speaker 2: a lot of traction. Viewership's going up. You saw the

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Speaker 2: numbers on the ratings on the NFL and college football

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Speaker 2: for week one of the twenty three to twenty four season.

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Speaker 2: I mean through the roof sports works, live events work.

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Speaker 2: It's glue, it's sticky, it's traction, it's high engagement, it's

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Speaker 2: rooting interest, it's rivalries, it's young, it's sports betting as

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Speaker 2: part of the ecosystem. So they're multitasking like it's a winner.

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Speaker 2: That's where you want to be. And right now, no

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Speaker 2: matter where you are, stranger things or sports, you have

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Speaker 2: to have enough content and to fill the linear pipes

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Speaker 2: while they're still there, while you can still mine them

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Speaker 2: and monetize them. But at the same time have enough

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Speaker 2: premium content. And it must be premium in order to

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Speaker 2: get the pickup on streaming that most of these companies

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Speaker 2: are looking for. And that's why UFC has been so

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Speaker 2: strong for ESPN Plus. And I don't say that in

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Speaker 2: an arrogant way. I love ESPN Plus, I love their library,

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Speaker 2: I love a lot of the soccer and some of

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Speaker 2: the other properties they play, but they sold it to

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Speaker 2: us as you're going to be the anchor tenant. If

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Speaker 2: you're willing to put the UFC we're keep in mind

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Speaker 2: they were in less than ten million homes. We were

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Speaker 2: getting more out of being a pay per view with

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Speaker 2: di RECTV than going through there. But if you're willing

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Speaker 2: to make that sacrifice, we will market you and cover

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Speaker 2: you so strong that you'll grow, and then as we grow,

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Speaker 2: it's a win win, and that's exactly what's happened. But

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Speaker 2: you have to be willing to put your premium content.

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Speaker 2: Not like NHL regular season. Do you think a lot

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Speaker 2: of people are tuning in to see the Columbus whatever

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Speaker 2: NHL team a regular season man? ESPN plus? No, Maybe

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Speaker 2: in Columbus maybe it's playoffs they are, but regular season

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Speaker 2: is different. There's just a lot of volume and tonnage.

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Speaker 2: That's not a slam on the NHL. There's no urgency.

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Speaker 2: If you take your premium and you put it there,

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Speaker 2: the audience will follow. And we were willing to do that.

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Speaker 2: But let me tell you it was a gamble. And

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Speaker 2: when we started, when we made that deal, keep going

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Speaker 2: back to that word, right, sponsors were not happy, like

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Speaker 2: we're the ratings, Well, ESPN plus doesn't they're not doing ratings, Well,

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Speaker 2: we can't pay you what we committed to because we

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Speaker 2: don't even know who's seeing your products. We signed up

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Speaker 2: to be a sponsor when you were on Fox Fox broadcast,

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Speaker 2: and now you're buried on ESPN Plus where you got

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Speaker 2: to pay a ransom to have a subscription. We want

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Speaker 2: a rebate and we had to manage all those sponsors.

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Speaker 3: And so, as someone who's going to have to going

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Speaker 3: back to a deal negotiate for media rights over the

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Speaker 3: next few years and now in even larger fashion, how

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Speaker 3: do you approach that deal making in a in an

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Speaker 3: environment that is so uncertain you don't know what buyers

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Speaker 3: are going to be. ESPN is I think it's fair

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Speaker 3: to say diminished at this point, who knows what its future?

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Speaker 5: Is?

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Speaker 2: Still the best brand in sports though.

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Speaker 3: Right, So what do you do, like, how do you

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Speaker 3: approach that? How do you sort of marshal the forces

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Speaker 3: inside your shop to take on a landscape that is

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Speaker 3: dramatically different.

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Speaker 2: Well, let's start with the fact that the streets all

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Speaker 2: they care about is the price. Yeah, so you're balancing

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Speaker 2: that as a public company, You're balancing that was with

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Speaker 2: what's best for your brand, what's best for your product,

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Speaker 2: what's your neighborhood look like, what other properties are around

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Speaker 2: you are on your channel, your platform? What's the long

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Speaker 2: term commitment from the company? Right for how many months

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Speaker 2: were we hearing or ESPN is going to be sold off?

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Speaker 2: ESPN is going to be spun off under Bob Japik. Oh,

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Speaker 2: maybe maybe Igur will do it, maybe you won't do it.

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Speaker 2: So you have to think about all of that and

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Speaker 2: then how it changes. But obviously, if you're the NBA

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Speaker 2: or the UFC, you want the best partner, you want

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Speaker 2: the best marketing partner. But you're looking to monetize your

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Speaker 2: rights and we're no different.

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Speaker 4: So Mark, I want to talk a little bit about

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Speaker 4: you and your career. Sometimes we have a lot of

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Speaker 4: young listeners, entrepreneurs, viewers as well. I didn't go to college.

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Speaker 4: You went to the University of Iowa, right. You have

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Speaker 4: a gazillion IVY leaders that work for you. But you started,

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Speaker 4: and I think our viewers would really like to hear this.

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Speaker 4: You started a production assistant ESPN. In a few years,

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Speaker 4: you're running the whole content. How do you do that?

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Speaker 4: Why do you do that? What advice can you give

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Speaker 4: to our young listeners?

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Speaker 2: Look, obviously there's some luck involved there, and I'm not

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Speaker 2: saying that to be humble. You can't. You can't script that. Fortunately,

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Speaker 2: I had mentors executives that saw something in me, that

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Speaker 2: had an eye on me, that said, this is a

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Speaker 2: guy we want to bring along, and when I deliver,

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Speaker 2: they rewarded me. That's rare. And if you're not at

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Speaker 2: a company where people are where the executives, the leaders,

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Speaker 2: the managers are investing in their people like that, succession,

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Speaker 2: planning for the future, trying to identify the future stars

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Speaker 2: of tomorrow, investing in them and then bringing them up

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Speaker 2: the ranks, nurturing them, you should get out of there.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's just the bottom line. So I had

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Speaker 2: some success with a Sports Century project, which was the

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Speaker 2: precursor to thirty to thirty. It to Emmy. It won

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Speaker 2: a Peabody, our first Peabody ever at the company. It's

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Speaker 2: so interesting. So there's an executive meeting that takes place

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Speaker 2: behind the scenes. Sports Century is coming to an end,

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Speaker 2: twenty five million dollar profit winner for ESPN WOW End

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Speaker 2: of the Century, Big one hundred Hours, chronically the best

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Speaker 2: of the best in sports stories, journalism, highlights games. I

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Speaker 2: oversaw the whole thing at twenty six years old, and

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Speaker 2: they made money and it's it's a critical winner. Now

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Speaker 2: what do we do with this guy? We have a

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Speaker 2: young star I can say this now, right, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: And they have a meeting and one guy who's very

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Speaker 2: high up, very high up, says he's going to be

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Speaker 2: one of the best game producers ever. Let's let's put

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Speaker 2: him on games. His personality I've seen him in the

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Speaker 2: truck live, that's where he should be. And another says

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Speaker 2: what he's talking about, Like, here's what he just did.

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Speaker 2: He sold this whole project. He brought in general motors,

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Speaker 2: he was the storyteller, he drove the narrative. It was

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Speaker 2: profitable and it was critically acclaimed. We got to grow

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Speaker 2: the Classic Sports network, which is now called ESPN Classic.

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Speaker 2: Let's put him in charge of the network. President of

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Speaker 2: ESPN says, there is no president of networks. I'm the

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Speaker 2: president of all of that. We don't have an individual president.

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Speaker 2: I don't even know what that means. So the head

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Speaker 2: of advertising, the head of affiliate sales are reporting him,

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Speaker 2: and they're like, and the guy says, the guy who

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Speaker 2: suggested it says, no, they're not. They stayed reporting the

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Speaker 2: affiliate adds us and we just tell him to figure

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Speaker 2: it out. We'll work across the aisle, make it work.

431
00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:54,680
Speaker 2: Let's just just go for that. And the guy says,

432
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:56,760
Speaker 2: I'm telling you, you can produce one today football for

433
00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:58,480
Speaker 2: us one day if we ever get that, and the

434
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:00,440
Speaker 2: guy turns to him. I got to say, whole story

435
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,800
Speaker 2: from George Boden Iron Steve Bornstein, we're running ESPN, and

436
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:06,399
Speaker 2: he goes, you're gonna stick this kid in Boise, Idaho

437
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:08,560
Speaker 2: doing the C game when he could be running a

438
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:10,959
Speaker 2: network and we could be building him as a future

439
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:14,560
Speaker 2: executive because as a game brought producer, you're not starting

440
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:18,000
Speaker 2: at an any level. You're gonna go to Boise. I'm

441
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:22,800
Speaker 2: going back to Iowa City here. So George and Steve

442
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:25,600
Speaker 2: listened to the old man that wanted me in these hips,

443
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:27,640
Speaker 2: and they put me in charge of Classic Sports Network.

444
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:31,320
Speaker 2: We were in twenty four million homes by Hooker, by Crooker.

445
00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:33,800
Speaker 2: I worked with the different groups and the different teams

446
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:36,359
Speaker 2: without trying to be threatening. I learned I fell on

447
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:39,680
Speaker 2: my face. I had to submerge my ego, you name it.

448
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,000
Speaker 2: I mean, I didn't have direct they weren't direct reports.

449
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 2: I was across the aisle. But we sold the story

450
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,159
Speaker 2: and quickly we were in seventy million homes. And now

451
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:50,040
Speaker 2: with the success and that set me up for the

452
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:52,160
Speaker 2: rest of the plane at ESPN.

453
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:54,160
Speaker 5: And so what happens from that? What does that set

454
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 5: you up to do?

455
00:23:55,560 --> 00:24:00,880
Speaker 2: ESPN was really a challenge time visa VI rating. Keep

456
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 2: in mind, and you've seen them, just speak with Charter,

457
00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:06,440
Speaker 2: ESPN's getting anywhere from eight to ten dollars a sub

458
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,159
Speaker 2: on your cable bill. Wow, that's how much is thrown up.

459
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:13,199
Speaker 2: ESPN's makes their whole business. Yes, there's the ad stream,

460
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:16,639
Speaker 2: but their whole business is the affiliate revenue stream. That's

461
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 2: the big money. You got to keep that going. And

462
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,320
Speaker 2: there were a lot of cries at that time from

463
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:25,240
Speaker 2: the MSOs, we can't do this anymore. ESPN has to

464
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:26,840
Speaker 2: go a la card. How funny is that, because that's

465
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:28,960
Speaker 2: what streaming is, it's olive art. They have to go

466
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:30,880
Speaker 2: all the card, and they were trying to get Washington

467
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 2: to dictate it. And Disney spent a lot of money

468
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:37,240
Speaker 2: on lobbyists and regularly to help them fight that off.

469
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:40,359
Speaker 2: Because ESPN and Disney were scared, if we go all

470
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 2: the card, we're not going to have eighty to one

471
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 2: hundred million homes. How many people are going to sign up? Exactly?

472
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:47,399
Speaker 2: By the way, history repeating itself is exactly what they

473
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 2: are right now. How many people will sign up when

474
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:53,479
Speaker 2: ESPN actually goes direct to consumer? Right, it's twenty nine

475
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 2: nine and thirty nine ninety mark just for a viewers,

476
00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 2: just to catch them up.

477
00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:01,159
Speaker 4: You have over one hundred million subscribers and about eight

478
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,720
Speaker 4: to fifty bucks. Right, that's eight hundred and fifty million

479
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:07,160
Speaker 4: dollars per month, the ultimate cash, that's right, that's right.

480
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 2: At that time we were about yeah, ninety three million,

481
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 2: I mean, and maybe they were at six bucks then,

482
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:14,680
Speaker 2: but it doesn't matter. That's as one million million. It's

483
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 2: the train that drives. You think you're getting ESPN two

484
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:20,640
Speaker 2: for fifty cents a sub You're not without ESPN, right,

485
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 2: you think you're getting ABC. You think you're getting ABC

486
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,200
Speaker 2: Family which is now free Form Disney Junior ex It's

487
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 2: all on the backs of ESPN. So it drives the

488
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,200
Speaker 2: truck and the engine for everybody. That's the business model.

489
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 2: It's absolutely brilliant. And by the way, they're so good

490
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,199
Speaker 2: they can do that you can can't afford not to

491
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 2: have ESPN. They don't want to go all the card,

492
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 2: but the ratings are in the tank. They had lost

493
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:46,680
Speaker 2: NASCAR and their ratings were going down. So the President says,

494
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,879
Speaker 2: we got to do something bold. We we got it.

495
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,440
Speaker 2: We got to make a change here. We need original thinking,

496
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,920
Speaker 2: we need original programming, we need we need new leadership.

497
00:25:56,359 --> 00:26:00,879
Speaker 2: And they turned to me to say, we want to

498
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 2: bring you in to run all of programming.

499
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 4: And how old are you at this point?

500
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 2: I was thirty one, wow. And I remember they'd taken

501
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,639
Speaker 2: me out for a walk in Central Park, kind of

502
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 2: like the father son. Yeah right, father is arm rom me.

503
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 2: You got it out because basically they were gonna pay

504
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:18,399
Speaker 2: me nothing and I had no leverage, of course, and

505
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 2: it would be like, dude, this is a gift, like

506
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 2: no one does this. And they put me in charge

507
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 2: of programming. The first things I wanted to do was

508
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,640
Speaker 2: launch a show called Part in the Interruption, Wow, which

509
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 2: ended up being huge for us. And I wanted the

510
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,639
Speaker 2: NBA in Wimbledon. Wimbledon because it's just summer programming. We

511
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 2: needed a lift up. It's prestige too, it's skiff any product.

512
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,679
Speaker 2: And the NBA because it's the NBA, and when we

513
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,920
Speaker 2: got those, our fortunes changed. We went on an eight

514
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 2: quarter run of increase ratings year quarter over quarter, year

515
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 2: over year. No one could argue with the strategy. It

516
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:54,679
Speaker 2: was how much can you bring in for We'll see.

517
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,639
Speaker 2: I was just with Adam Silvery yesterday, Ari and I

518
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 2: were having lunch with him, and are you and I

519
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,640
Speaker 2: I went to dinner last night to celebrate tko int REOs.

520
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:05,879
Speaker 2: Oh wow, And I said, Adam, guess we're going for dinner.

521
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 2: That's where I took him and David Stern to sell

522
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,919
Speaker 2: them on the NBA coming to Esbo. I'll never forget

523
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 2: that city. We don't have a package for you. We're

524
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:20,159
Speaker 2: on Turner and NBC. Split the Turner package, split the

525
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 2: Turner package. Whatever scraps you got for us, we'll take it.

526
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 2: Or if you want to move the finals from NBC ABC,

527
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 2: we'll do that. That's where that whole thing got hatched.

528
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,360
Speaker 2: And so when you brought that back to the bean Counters, well,

529
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 2: the NBA all that tonnage, high quality tonnage, right, Kobe Shack,

530
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,679
Speaker 2: big players, big personalities, and what that would mean for

531
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:44,639
Speaker 2: SportsCenter and other properties were trying to get and that

532
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,440
Speaker 2: was the beginning of a new run, and it silenced

533
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 2: the cable operators. It wasn't any more. Hey, you know

534
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 2: this is bs ESPN charging too much.

535
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 3: We must have Yeah, so Mark, there's some critical decisions

536
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 3: that get made at ESPN around that time during your tenure.

537
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:06,679
Speaker 3: Let's talk football. Sunday Night Football, Monday Night Football. We

538
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:10,479
Speaker 3: feel like we know it now. It is not what

539
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:11,439
Speaker 3: it always was.

540
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, take us back. It's funny, you know, I mean

541
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 2: obviously Monday Night Football was even bigger than it is today. Yes, right,

542
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 2: the Howard Cosell days come on and for years and

543
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 2: years and years it was under there, and then it

544
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 2: was handed off to Al Michaels and those Jackets. Remember

545
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 2: you had the Yellow Jackets and the old days with

546
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 2: Gifford and Cosell and Andy Don Meredith and then Al

547
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:35,480
Speaker 2: came on and he had different partners and that led

548
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 2: up to Madden. It was a sad day when ABC.

549
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 2: I mean, that's an institution, ABC, Monday Night Football, the

550
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 2: song the Music Institution, halftime highlights with Cosel. It was

551
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 2: a sad day for the company when they lost Monday

552
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:52,959
Speaker 2: Night even though it went to ESPN. But this is

553
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 2: the art of deal making right, Sometimes it is just luck.

554
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 2: You can be as strategic as all you want, you

555
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 2: can data analytics and form relationships, and sometimes timing optics,

556
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 2: it just doesn't fall for you. Here's the situation, Steve Bornstein.

557
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 2: He comes to us and says, we want to negotiate

558
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 2: a renewal right now for Sunday and Monday night. I

559
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 2: talked to Eiger and George Bodenimer and we don't need

560
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 2: to our windows not up. We're not doing that now.

561
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 2: I go back to Steve Mark, you should do this now.

562
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 2: If you don't do this now, you will be the

563
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 2: last one in and you won't have the control. You

564
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 2: won't be able to dictate where this goes. You come

565
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 2: in first, you got first mover advantage. You want to

566
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 2: hold us to our window. We'll end up negotiating with

567
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 2: the other guys first, and you take your chances. So

568
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 2: we kind of have it like we don't open it up,

569
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 2: but let's at least talk about what it would be,

570
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 2: and we really want to have continue with Sunday night

571
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 2: and continue with Monday night. And at one point Bornstein

572
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 2: throws out a number which is like I don't know

573
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 2: one four for the two one point four billion to

574
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 2: keep them, which is a big increase for ABC and ESPN,

575
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 2: and Iiger says, I can't do that now. Iiger's in

576
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:11,479
Speaker 2: line to get Eisner's job. Disney is hurting right now.

577
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 2: Remember there's a whole vote to get eisnern sheryld A

578
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 2: is a revolting you know, Eisner, who was the fair

579
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 2: haired prince for so long, could do nothing wrong. Disney's

580
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 2: in trouble. Iiger potentially is going to succeed him, but

581
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 2: they're going to look outside. How much is Eiger to

582
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 2: blame for what's going wrong with Eisner? So he's got

583
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 2: a lot of optics and politics to play, and I

584
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 2: don't think it's in his best interest to go to

585
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 2: the board and say I want to open early. Here's

586
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 2: the kind of increase which is unprecedented. Now it looks

587
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 2: like peanuts right right. And so he says no, to

588
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 2: which I was like, we may not get another swing.

589
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 2: This is not a bad deal for the combo. Can't

590
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 2: do it and we turn it down. What happens They

591
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 2: go renew their deal with Fox and we end up

592
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 2: losing Monday Night Football. Yes, it moved to ESPN, and

593
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 2: that was like our saving grace. At least we got

594
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 2: aver ESPN, which is the cash cow, but we lost

595
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 2: it for ABC and we end up paying one point

596
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 2: one billion just for Monday Night. So for a few

597
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 2: hundred more million a year earlier, we would have had

598
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 2: both and we would have had been able to dictate

599
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 2: the path the nights, the network whatever. Instead were left

600
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 2: with one on Monday Night for one point one billion,

601
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 2: which is ridiculous. And remember would have been one four

602
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 2: for the two of them. Yeah, right, okay, and with

603
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 2: no schedule anything. I mean, they give us the worst

604
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 2: schedule because we were a cable right. By the way,

605
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 2: Bob went on to be one of the best deal

606
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:40,239
Speaker 2: makers of our time in business, Pixar, Marvel, I mean,

607
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 2: Star Wars, Lucas, the list goes on, right, It's extraordinary

608
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 2: what he's built at Disney, but for different factors at

609
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 2: that time, he couldn't endorse that deal.

610
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 4: Andy Mark, you're so young at this, say, what makes

611
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 4: you think that one point four billion is a good

612
00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 4: deal or a fair deal for the whole Disney fan family.

613
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 2: I'm living in breathing sports media rights every day in

614
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 2: my job. He's not to be fair. It doesn't matter

615
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 2: how much older he is, or wise or age. I'm

616
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 2: in it. So this is it's a checkerboard game, right,

617
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 2: this is chess. I know this is going to happen.

618
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 2: Whether he couldn't move it, or he didn't want to

619
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 2: back me, or he didn't believe in the or not,

620
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 2: whatever it was, you know, it's ultimately a tough play

621
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 2: and you kind of live and die by that. And

622
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 2: that was the beginning of the end the ABC Sports

623
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 2: as you remember, the why world of sports at ABC.

624
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 4: So Mark, you mentioned Bob Bieger, Jason and I are

625
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 4: both big fans of biger Icon obviously, absolutely, can you

626
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 4: share with us maybe one or two lessons that you

627
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 4: learned because you had a front row seat to his management?

628
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 4: What an opportunity.

629
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 2: Yes, and there are some other turns there that could

630
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 2: have happened, and I'll explain that. Here's just as I

631
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 2: saw her first of all, I mean central casting, guys,

632
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 2: we all know even today. I mean it's just like

633
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 2: invented to be mister CEO. I mean, looks the part charismatic,

634
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 2: very convince and seeing, very persuasive, very charming, very bright,

635
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 2: surrounds himself with good people, takes chances, sports, entertainment, personalities, relationships.

636
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 2: I mean, honestly, he's the model CEO, right, And he

637
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 2: came up through sports similar to me. He came up

638
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 2: through the ABC sports ranks, and he moved around and

639
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 2: TV and film, and he just he has the package.

640
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 2: And I remember telling him I wanted to do scripted

641
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 2: programming at ESPN. And what do you mean, we do

642
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 2: live events, we do studio shows, news and information. We

643
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 2: want to go original programming, game shows, docs, films, scripted,

644
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 2: what do you mean scripted?

645
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 5: Like?

646
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 2: Ultimately that was Playmakers, right, that was the serious He

647
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 2: backed that plate. And not only did he back it,

648
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 2: he looked at every script. We're talking about the COO

649
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 2: of Disney. I turned in every script and he gave

650
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 2: script notes for every episode. It was a massive hit.

651
00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 2: By the way, Playmakers was the third highest rated show

652
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 2: on ESPN after Sunday Night Football on Saturday night College football.

653
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 2: It was a monster. It was all anyone ever talked about.

654
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,239
Speaker 2: It won the AFI Award. I mean, it was incredible

655
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 2: and Bob was totally hands on, his fingerprints all over

656
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 2: so there was no job too small. So I tell you,

657
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 2: when everybody talks about oh, two hands on or two

658
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 2: granular or two in the weeds. Who's to say that?

659
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:24,840
Speaker 2: Who says that Bob Iger gets up at three in

660
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 2: the morning. Practically he's working out by four, he's in

661
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 2: the office by five. Maybe I got it wrong by

662
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 2: an hour, but trust me here and any time I

663
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 2: would send him an email or a call, it's an instant.

664
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 2: Are you just sitting by your desk waiting? Like? That's

665
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,320
Speaker 2: who he is. He's on it. He leads by example.

666
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 2: He inspires people. You want to get behind him. And

667
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 2: that's the takeaway. And that's one thing about leadership and

668
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 2: doing deals and running companies, Like you can be a

669
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 2: great boss, but do people really want to work for you?

670
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 2: Are they inspired? There's a difference. Are they inspired by you? Yeah,

671
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:01,720
Speaker 2: they might listen to you, maybe it's out of fear,

672
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:04,799
Speaker 2: maybe they perform, but will they really follow you into

673
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 2: battle that loyalty? Do they have your back? Do they

674
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 2: believe in you? And having that gift to inspire people,

675
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 2: That's not something you can teach in Harvard Business School

676
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 2: very rare.

677
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 3: So when you think about Metea writes across especially the

678
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 3: major sports and you know you talked about you have

679
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 3: talked about the NBA, the NFL, MLB. How do you

680
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 3: parse out the value of rights going forward because these

681
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 3: are sports that are on different trajectories at this point.

682
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 2: Look, it's it is about, especially today with streaming. Let's

683
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 2: just take ESPN for example, right, not picking on them,

684
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:45,799
Speaker 2: but they, I mean, they're the best when they go

685
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:48,240
Speaker 2: direct to consumer. When they when they flip the switch,

686
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 2: they're going to be basically taking the linear feed of

687
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:53,439
Speaker 2: ESPN as you know it, which will still exist because

688
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 2: it'll probably keep going, but they're going to put it

689
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:59,319
Speaker 2: on streaming. So now you can stream the channel, not

690
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:03,759
Speaker 2: ESPN Plus which is SVOD, the actual channel, and maybe

691
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:05,839
Speaker 2: ab'll to have stuff there that isn't on the linear feed,

692
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 2: we'll see or tiers or whatever it might be. In

693
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 2: order to make that work, the money they're going to

694
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 2: be foregoing from losing subs and ad revenue on the linear,

695
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 2: they're gonna have to charge a hefty price. That's what

696
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 2: this is all about. That's the models that are running.

697
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 2: What do we have to charge for ESPN as a

698
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:27,320
Speaker 2: standalone channel on streaming? And there's a lot of articles

699
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 2: out there and there's a lot of you know, rumor

700
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 2: and gossip and speculation. Is it twenty nine nine nine?

701
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 2: Is it thirty nine nine? How many people will actually

702
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:37,719
Speaker 2: pay thirty nine to ninety nine for a month? Is

703
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 2: it ten million, twenty million, thirty In order to make right,

704
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 2: to balance it out, The only way you're gonna get there,

705
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 2: whatever the price is, is premium content. The only way.

706
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 2: You have to be so disciplined that you know, we're

707
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 2: not going to carry that secondary sport. We're not going

708
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 2: to carry that tertiary sport. We're not going to carry

709
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 2: that studio show that may be good, but it doesn'tun deliver.

710
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:02,880
Speaker 2: We have to stick with the tried and true what's

711
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 2: gonna bring people to table, and NBA is one of them.

712
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 2: If I'm going to get my games and my playoffs

713
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 2: on that channel, if I'm gonna get NHL playoffs on

714
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:12,320
Speaker 2: that channel, if I'm gonna get NFL on that channel,

715
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 2: if I'm going to get UFC or dare I say,

716
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 2: wwe first, take pardon the interruption, take the stuff that

717
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:21,799
Speaker 2: mad that really matters, and invest in that, and you

718
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 2: have to just cut the rest. And that's hard to do,

719
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:27,239
Speaker 2: and that affects a lot of lives and livelihoods. That

720
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 2: that's the only way you're going to get that number.

721
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:32,319
Speaker 2: So premium content wins. And one of the reasons we

722
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 2: feel so strong about UFC and WWE, and I'm not

723
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 2: saying this to be self serving, this works for a

724
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:39,840
Speaker 2: lot of other sports is because we're the full calendar.

725
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:43,240
Speaker 2: So if you can get premium content that goes eight months,

726
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 2: ten months, let alone US twelve months a year, scheduling, flexibility,

727
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 2: nights hours, two hours, three hours, library programming, that makes

728
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 2: you invaluable.

729
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:57,880
Speaker 5: This has been incredible. We could talk to you for

730
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 5: three hours, four hours forever. We really appreciate it.

731
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:03,360
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. We really enjoyed it. I'm not

732
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 2: sure where it starts or stops because I just enjoyed

733
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 2: talking to you guys, and you're your titans of business yourself,

734
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 2: so I appreciate the time.

735
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:11,240
Speaker 4: Thank you, Marigo. It was awesome.

736
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,880
Speaker 1: The Deal is a production from Bloomberg Podcasts and Bloomberg Originals.

737
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 1: The Deals hosted by Alex Rodriguez and Jason Kelly. Our

738
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:31,360
Speaker 1: producers are Victor Eveas and Lizzie Phillip. Our story editor

739
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 1: is Siddartha Mahonta. Our system producers are Stacy Wong and

740
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 1: Anna Masaakis. Blake Maples is our sound engineer. Rubab Shakir

741
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 1: is our creative director. Our direction is from Jacqueline Kessler.

742
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 1: Original music by Blake Maples, casting by Dave Warren. Our

743
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 1: managing editor is David Ravella. Our executive producers are Sage Bauman,

744
00:38:55,400 --> 00:39:00,880
Speaker 1: Jason Kelly, Adam Kamiski, Kelly Leferrier, Ashley Hoenig, Trey Shallowhorn,

745
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 1: Kyle Kramer, and Andrew Barden. Additional support from Rachel Scarmazino,

746
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:12,200
Speaker 1: Elena So Los Angeles, Vanessa Perdomo, Tom Connors, and Anna Maserakis.

747
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 1: Billy Voorerman is our director of photography. Our camera operators

748
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:21,240
Speaker 1: are Ryan Covtero and Jesse Rindner. Our goffer is Joe Albino,

749
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:24,759
Speaker 1: and our grip is Balt Spielman. Katia Vanoy is our

750
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:28,719
Speaker 1: video editor. You can also watch The Deal on Bloomberg Originals,

751
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:32,360
Speaker 1: YouTube and Bloomberg Television. Subscribe to the Deal wherever you

752
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 1: get your podcasts. Thanks for listening