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Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Saren, Yes, over your sar. Yes.

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Speaker 3: Do you know what's ridiculous?

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Speaker 2: I do? Good question, Elizabeth. Okay, Tommy Smothers recently passed away,

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Speaker 2: I know, alright, Yeah, so they had the Smothers Brother

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Speaker 2: Comedy Hour. Do you ever know about what Keith Moon

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Speaker 2: did on that show? No? So the who we're supposed

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Speaker 2: to perform My Generation? Right, so you got all of them?

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Speaker 2: Rodger Daltrey, Keith Moon is the drummer. Townshend's guitarist, right,

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Speaker 2: so Moon bass drum. Right, He's got a little thing

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Speaker 2: set up or the end of the song and when

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Speaker 2: it gets to the end of the song he hits

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Speaker 2: it and the drum explodes. He had loaned up to

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Speaker 2: blow up live on TV.

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Speaker 3: It's very Keith.

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Speaker 2: When I say blow up, I mean like Roger Daltrey

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Speaker 2: gets thrown at the camera right. The towns and Pete

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Speaker 2: Townsend's hair is like on fire, singing smoking when they

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Speaker 2: can when the smoke abates right now, and whistle cool

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Speaker 2: as any bass player's just standing there like look whatever

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Speaker 2: of that, because go and get me a drink. Right anyway,

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Speaker 2: I thought that was absolutely amazing. Because also Keith Moon

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Speaker 2: he got shrapnel in his own arm, so it played

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Speaker 2: back ris on it right? Who never invited on TV

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Speaker 2: to do that type of show ever again? Yeah, so

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Speaker 2: there you go. Temmy Smothers, all right, rip and gave

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Speaker 2: us that all right Moon? Right? Ridiculous?

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Speaker 3: Huh that is ridiculous blowing up a set for effect.

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Speaker 3: Do you know what else is ridiculous? Elizabeth fraud zaren

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Speaker 3: it's fraud. This is ridiculous crime A podcast about absurd

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Speaker 3: and outrageous capers, heists and cons. It's always ninety nine

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Speaker 3: percent murder free and one hundred percent ridiculus.

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Speaker 2: Oh you damn.

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Speaker 3: Do you know what I have in common with Lord Kelvin?

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Speaker 3: The famous physicist Adam Smith, the father of economics, seven

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Speaker 3: Nobel laureates, three British Prime ministers, and actor Gerard Butler.

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Speaker 2: A love of argyle socks and air bathing clothes.

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Speaker 3: We are all University of Glasgow graduates. Yes, so I

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Speaker 3: have my master's degree from the University of Glasgow in Scotland.

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Speaker 3: Yes you do, thank you, thank you so much. Did

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Speaker 3: you know the place opened in fourteen fifty.

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Speaker 2: One, as in like the Middle Ages.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it's ancient ancient.

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Speaker 2: I know, it's one of the oldest in the world.

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Speaker 2: If not, I know, I think Bologna is a little

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Speaker 2: bit older.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's one of what they call the ancient universities

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Speaker 3: of Europe. Lots of notable Alumniamian you do that long.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, figure you're going to hit a couple.

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Speaker 3: And it wasn't easy to get in, and it wasn't

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Speaker 3: easy to get the degree with highest distinction.

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Speaker 2: Look at you.

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Speaker 3: But and it's not just like the diploma. It's everything

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Speaker 3: behind it, you know. It's the effort that I put

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Speaker 3: in so I can display certain skills as a result.

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Speaker 2: Sure, and then also the imprimature of that school tells

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Speaker 2: us that you did all this exactly.

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Speaker 3: So people are proud of their alma maters.

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Speaker 2: Yes, their sole mother.

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Speaker 3: Jim Mann, chief Information Technology Officer of the State of Kansas.

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Speaker 3: He was proud of his degree in business administration from

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Speaker 3: the University of Devonshire. Jim Man Jim Man. George Way,

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Speaker 3: President of Liberia and a retired Liberian football player. He

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Speaker 3: was proud of his degree from Parkwood University.

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Speaker 2: Football soccer, not football football.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Costas Margaritis, he's a Greek politician and he's a

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Speaker 3: member of the New Democracy Party there. He has a

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Speaker 3: degree from Shelbourne University.

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Speaker 2: He's very proud of it, of course.

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Speaker 3: Leonard Ingram aka bag One Raw Africa. He's a self

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Speaker 3: proclaimed anger management specialist. He's writing a bunch of books.

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Speaker 3: He was on that Penn and Teller TV show.

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Speaker 2: Oh interesting.

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Speaker 3: He's proud of his PA philosophy from glen.

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Speaker 2: Cullen University, Glenn Collin.

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Speaker 3: Who are these people's.

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Speaker 2: Eric, Elizabeth? Are these friends of yours?

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Speaker 3: No, these people are phonies. University of Devonshire, Parkwood University,

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Speaker 3: Shelbourne University, glen Cullen University. They're all fake colleges.

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Speaker 2: Oh, but the people are real.

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Speaker 3: People are real. The colleges are faked.

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Speaker 2: So they're not like AI people.

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Speaker 3: No, they're real people with fake diplomas. Got These colleges

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Speaker 3: are fronts for one diploma mill operation called university degree program.

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Speaker 2: Wait one. They have all these different flavors of college

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Speaker 2: you can pick.

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Speaker 3: The Chronicle of Higher Education called this the quote Granddaddy

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Speaker 3: of diploma mills. And so we'll get to this particular

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Speaker 3: operation later, but right now, I want to give you

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Speaker 3: some background.

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Speaker 2: Please, I love background.

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Speaker 3: What is a diploma Mill's.

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Speaker 2: Errand Elizabeth, what is a diploma mill?

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Speaker 3: Well, in today's society, Webster's Dictionary defines diploma mill as

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Speaker 3: quote a usually unregulated institution of higher education granting degrees

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Speaker 3: with few or no academic requirements. So it's a business

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Speaker 3: that sells illegitimate diplomas for bogus degrees.

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Speaker 2: Ah, degrees, those are important, I hear there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they're kind of uh sometimes.

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Speaker 2: So people use them all the time to leverage things

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Speaker 2: they do.

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Speaker 3: That is true. And so some of these diploma mills

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Speaker 3: they claim that they offer credit.

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Speaker 2: For prior learning, credit for prior learning, and.

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Speaker 3: That's a legitimate thing, but it has to be very

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Speaker 3: carefully documented with like a confirmed method of conversion from

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Speaker 3: experience to academic credit.

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Speaker 2: So like if I was a un interpreter working in French,

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Speaker 2: like the Francophone on the African continent, I could go

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Speaker 2: in and get like French five credits, sure, something like that,

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Speaker 2: something like that.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So some of the diploma mills they don't even

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Speaker 3: bother with any kind of conversion. Most of them also

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Speaker 3: have a fake a creditor that make it look like

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Speaker 3: there's some sort of quality assurance.

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Speaker 4: Ah.

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Speaker 3: And so you hear degree mill and diploma mill and

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Speaker 3: they aren't the same thing.

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Speaker 2: Interesting.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, degree mill issues diplomas from unaccredited in institutions that

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Speaker 3: may be legal in some states but are generally illegitimate.

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Speaker 2: That's a degree mill, so this is like a medical

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Speaker 2: degree from a school in Grenada totally.

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Speaker 3: And then the diploma mill they issue counterfeit diplomas bearing

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Speaker 3: the names of real universities.

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Speaker 4: Uh huh.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes there's an overlap in that I mentioned accreditation. Yes,

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Speaker 3: diploma mills, they're usually shopping degrees from colleges that aren't

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Speaker 3: accredited by a recognized institutional accreditor, and accreditors apparently like

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Speaker 3: they keep colleges accountable to set standards.

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Speaker 2: I'm glad you bring this up. I know all about it. Credits, Elizabeth,

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Speaker 2: I could tell you, I could wax poetic about it,

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Speaker 2: because it's a really integral component of the academic experience,

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Speaker 2: and people don't understand that colleges with us is accreditation.

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Speaker 2: They could pose as we're seeing as anybody, and the

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Speaker 2: creditor actually guarantees your education in a way as much

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Speaker 2: as your teacher does.

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Speaker 3: Sure, No, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm glad you've brought that up, and.

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Speaker 3: It's like I should say that because a college is

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Speaker 3: unaccredited doesn't mean it's bad or fake.

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Speaker 2: No, so you know it.

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Speaker 3: But accreditation is.

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Speaker 2: Accreditation is like basically a certification of this stuff is

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Speaker 2: what it says.

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Speaker 3: And I think from my understanding, it's generally like sort

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Speaker 3: of gate keeping federal financial aids. Interesting up of yeah,

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Speaker 3: you should have known these things. For diploma mills, since

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Speaker 3: they don't have the seal of approval from an accreditor,

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Speaker 3: they have to do other stuff that's going to make

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Speaker 3: them look legit to students. So some will say that

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Speaker 3: they're fully accredited, but the accreditor is another scam on

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Speaker 3: its own. There are accreditation mills, and so they make

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Speaker 3: their websites look legit and they claim to be approved

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Speaker 3: by the government like you know an accreditor would be,

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Speaker 3: and then the college can link to that fake accreditor

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Speaker 3: and students think it's all on the up and up,

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Speaker 3: of course, and other times the fake college will say

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Speaker 3: that they are internationally recognized by organizations like UNESCO, and

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Speaker 3: that sounds impressive. Sure, problem is that UNESCO has no

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Speaker 3: authority to recognize or credit colleges cultural sites completely. Oh

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Speaker 3: that sounds you know, bad though, so some diploma and

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Speaker 3: degree mills they like they draw students in by telling

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Speaker 3: them that work history professional education can count towards a degree,

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Speaker 3: which in some cases can't. Like you said, they might

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Speaker 3: even have the student write a dissertation or a thesis.

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Speaker 3: Of course, the papers are usually like four pages long

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Speaker 3: and don't require a defense. Okay, just turn it in.

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Speaker 3: Another trick to make the place look legit is to

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Speaker 3: use the following language in their promotional materials. They'll say

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Speaker 3: degrees are quote attested and sealed for authenticity by government

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Speaker 3: appointed notary.

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Speaker 2: You're supposed to get a sealed notarized.

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Speaker 3: All it means is that the signature on the document

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Speaker 3: has been verified, so has nothing to do with the

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Speaker 3: contents of the document. I could get a replica of

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Speaker 3: like the Declaration of Independence, sign it in front of

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Speaker 3: a notary, get their stamp on it, boom, notarized.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and the seal of course actually on the paper.

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Speaker 2: It's not like it's been sealed in wax exactly. I

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Speaker 2: misunderstood yes, thank you, or that.

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Speaker 3: Maybe they say it's sealed most who knows so students

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Speaker 3: they either fall for the dupe or they're into the

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Speaker 3: scam because the college uses names that sound legit and

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Speaker 3: are easily confused with real collegists. Do you remember doctor

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Speaker 3: Dante yeh.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, babbetizing doctor Donne exactly.

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Speaker 3: He won his song one best song. He ran a

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Speaker 3: diploma mill. If you'll recall Columbia State University, because I

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Speaker 3: talked about it. Then. Distance learning was all the rage

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Speaker 3: in the late nineties, so he did correspondence courses by mail.

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Speaker 3: He also did some online learning there, and he operated

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Speaker 3: out of a mail drop in Louisiana. It's the one

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Speaker 3: that higher ed expert John Bear said, quote Columbia State

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Speaker 3: University is a complete fake. There's no such university. The

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Speaker 3: photograph on the cover of their catalog is of Notre

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Speaker 3: Dame University in Indiana, while administrative office number two three

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Speaker 3: one is a three inch square mailbox.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, education come in a lot of different way.

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Speaker 3: It's not one size fits all.

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Speaker 2: What if you're saving money by using pictures of other colleges.

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Speaker 3: Here's a quick note about that environment very environmental. You're

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Speaker 3: so conscientious, doctor Bear. Little aside on him. He's listed

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Speaker 3: all over as a higher education expert. But I also

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Speaker 3: stumbled onto a higher Education Distance Learning Conspiracy message board.

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Speaker 3: What there's a post about him?

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Speaker 2: Okay, say that all again.

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Speaker 3: Higher Education Distance Learning Conspiracy message Board. It was just

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Speaker 3: like too much. It was too good, and I was

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Speaker 3: just like, did someone make this just like to dupe me?

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Speaker 3: Because it's it's they know I'd think this is hilarious.

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Speaker 3: So someone on there wrote this article thing about like

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Speaker 3: alleging that John Bear is in his real name and

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Speaker 3: that he secretly runs diploma mills himself and he's trying

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Speaker 3: to destroy the competition. Like it was a rabbit hole,

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Speaker 3: to be sure, and it was weird. And anyway, back

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Speaker 3: to Colombia, Okay, back to this day my alma mater,

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Speaker 3: remember a Columbia State University. A six to eight page

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Speaker 3: thesis got you a master's degree, yes, and at twelve

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Speaker 3: page one got you a doctorate yes, and then both

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Speaker 3: degrees could be completed in I don't know, twenty seven

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Speaker 3: days a long month average was like two to four months.

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Speaker 2: Okay, yes, you could get a PhD.

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Speaker 3: For like three grand and they let you haggle and that.

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Speaker 3: So he had Columbia State University. Some of the US

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Speaker 3: diploma mills they use British sounding names. Like the ones

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Speaker 3: I talked about Earl Year. These are similar but not

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Speaker 3: identical to the names of.

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Speaker 2: Actual universe Saint Exeter.

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Speaker 3: Yeah exactly. They do this for two reasons. First, British

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Speaker 3: universities are seen as like superior, super rigorous.

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Speaker 2: Of course, yes, it's why we have British sounding actors

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Speaker 2: always playing in historical movies, because it's a whole Yes,

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Speaker 2: of course sound British.

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Speaker 3: And then there's the fact that they're far away and

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Speaker 3: not likely to be like driven by or visited by

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Speaker 3: average American.

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Speaker 2: You can't go and take a self in front of

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Speaker 2: like the school, exactly.

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Speaker 3: And so some examples of British sounding names used by

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Speaker 3: diploma mills are Shaftsbury University, Oh yes, University of Dunham,

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Speaker 3: Reading University, and Suffield University.

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Speaker 2: Wait a minute, it's just like just off.

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Speaker 3: Higher ed institutions in the US have the UURL suffix

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Speaker 3: on their websites dot edu. Some diploma mills use an

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Speaker 3: AC top level domain name like which resembles a genuine

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Speaker 3: second level academic domain name like AC dot UK. So

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Speaker 3: like you know, for UK University it's you know, dot

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Speaker 3: ac dot UK, okay, but the AC is actually the

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00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:46,640
Speaker 3: domain for Ascension Island, and so this has become so

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Speaker 3: prevalent that legit colleges are starting to register that ac

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Speaker 3: domain for their institutions just to redirect to their real

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Speaker 3: sites to prevent digital scammers from using.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Interesting.

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Speaker 3: So what's it like to go to a diploma a mill?

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Speaker 2: Can you actually go to one?

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Speaker 3: I guess so? Like, you may have to buy textbooks, Okay,

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Speaker 3: you might have to take some tests really yeah, whether

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Speaker 3: those are graded or not, who knows.

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Speaker 2: But you actually have to pretend to do some of

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Speaker 2: the work.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes it depends. It's on the flavor of it. You

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Speaker 3: may have to write a paper.

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Speaker 2: And call it a what is this college?

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Speaker 3: Someone might read it, maybe not, maybe not. I would

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Speaker 3: love to get my hands on some of the papers

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Speaker 3: turned into those places. Yeah, I would probably have an aneurysm.

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Speaker 3: The programs available are generally pretty squishy squish, I mean,

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Speaker 3: they aren't hard sciences. I lean on things that are

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Speaker 3: like more vague or subjective or esoteric, and like sometimes

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Speaker 3: it's total pseudoscience, like the gay like PhDs in aromatherapy

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Speaker 3: and astrology. Oh yeah, like or anything obscure or lacking

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Speaker 3: peer review.

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Speaker 2: My friend and I we invented a fake college for

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Speaker 2: a while called Sandalwood State College, and we actually offered

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Speaker 2: degrees in a roma therapy. So yeah, I just wanted

277
00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:06,440
Speaker 2: to let you know that I've been working this scam myself,

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Speaker 2: So go on.

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Speaker 3: I taught at a community college that had a name

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Speaker 3: very similar to a university that was well known, and

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Speaker 3: there were a lot of confusion.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I could see that who.

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Speaker 3: Teaches at these diplomas.

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Speaker 2: Teaches at these elizabeth A.

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Speaker 3: Student's never going to meet them because you know, they

286
00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:26,680
Speaker 3: don't have a campus. No one's actually going going. No,

287
00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:29,560
Speaker 3: they just stand out, so they just sign off on

288
00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:32,720
Speaker 3: assignments or like for a price, a student can get

289
00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:35,720
Speaker 3: a reference letter. It's like in a la krte systems

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Speaker 3: like this.

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Speaker 2: Yes, why not if there are.

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Speaker 3: Professors employed, their certification to teach is either a degree

293
00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:46,240
Speaker 3: from that very fake institution or something from somewhere else

294
00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:49,440
Speaker 3: that's totally unrelated to any of the received degrees. So

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00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:52,640
Speaker 3: it's like if I started teaching advanced mathematics at prof

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Speaker 3: and bottom Glen University, like I'd sign you off on anything.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but like, do you ever have any like disgraced

298
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Speaker 2: teachers who've like also fall into this where they're like,

299
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Speaker 2: you know, basically cashing out.

300
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Speaker 3: Probably exactly. Well, and like if there's a faculty directory

301
00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:11,880
Speaker 3: on the college website with like really robust professor bios,

302
00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:15,320
Speaker 3: it's likely stolen from the website of a real university.

303
00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:17,760
Speaker 3: See you wonder, like who you know, what other places

304
00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:21,240
Speaker 3: are they? No professors means no classrooms.

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Speaker 2: Really.

306
00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:25,600
Speaker 3: In order to be accredited, colleges have to provide library

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00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:29,120
Speaker 3: and student support services, and for online work, there has

308
00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:33,240
Speaker 3: to be evidence of what they call regular and substantive interaction.

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00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:36,360
Speaker 2: Okay, regular and substitute so they actually have to face

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Speaker 2: face to face time.

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00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:40,760
Speaker 3: Not face to face, but for like distance education, zoom calls,

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00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:43,800
Speaker 3: calls present any kind of communication with.

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Speaker 2: Your instructor and your fellow students.

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00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:48,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're not just like plugging in and they do

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Speaker 3: automated tests.

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Speaker 2: Let me tell you this is very important to accreditors.

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Speaker 2: They're always talking about student outcomes, and this is something

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Speaker 2: that's very important to really. Yeah, yeah, important because in

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Speaker 2: the face to FaceTime is a way for you to

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Speaker 2: gauge that.

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Speaker 3: Okay, well, well, all that evidence of interaction isn't true.

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00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:09,120
Speaker 3: Obviously at a mill, there's no library, there's no registrars office,

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00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:12,040
Speaker 3: no counselors, no labs, and then the address for the

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00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:15,080
Speaker 3: most part is like a postbox and a male forwarding

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00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:16,440
Speaker 3: service or like a suite number.

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Speaker 2: So well great, though if they had like a swim team,

327
00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:23,760
Speaker 2: like they have nothing to go down to the pool,

328
00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:24,960
Speaker 2: they actually have people there.

329
00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:28,479
Speaker 3: Swing sweatshirts made for these fake these fake colleges.

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Speaker 2: Tell you, Sandwood State College, I can get your merch.

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00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:32,040
Speaker 2: We have the whole We already got the thing going.

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Speaker 2: I should have told you about this early.

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Speaker 3: So like when someone writes a doctoral thesis or a

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00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:41,320
Speaker 3: dissertation at a legitimate university, it's available from University Microfilms International,

335
00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:44,760
Speaker 3: which is a national repository, or the institution's own library.

336
00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:48,720
Speaker 3: That's not true for the mills. At most colleges, the

337
00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:52,080
Speaker 3: motto for faculty is publisher parish, so you have to

338
00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:55,280
Speaker 3: be writing scholarly articles, conducting research, or for the arts

339
00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:58,920
Speaker 3: creating works in order to keep your job. At diploma mills,

340
00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:01,920
Speaker 3: there's either none of them or it's faked. And a

341
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:04,960
Speaker 3: red flag is that tuition and fees are charged by

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00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,359
Speaker 3: the degree, so students don't pay by units per semester.

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00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:10,000
Speaker 3: You just do a flat fee for the whole thing.

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Speaker 2: That's a problem. Okay, remember that that's a red flag.

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00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:16,919
Speaker 3: They don't market themselves at college fairs or like in

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00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:20,880
Speaker 3: regular areas. It's generally like spam emails, and the emails

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00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:24,720
Speaker 3: often like urge students and role now before tuition or

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00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:27,240
Speaker 3: feesing are increased. That's not how it works.

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Speaker 2: It's like University of Phoenix. Part of this. Would you

350
00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:30,240
Speaker 2: say that they.

351
00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:36,439
Speaker 3: A touchy subject. They're not technically there are they're not

352
00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:40,000
Speaker 3: technically we'll put it that way. So they but they

353
00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:42,879
Speaker 3: urge you to get the early bird special, you know,

354
00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:46,399
Speaker 3: and roll now. The marketing materials, the college catalog, the

355
00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:49,280
Speaker 3: website usually have all sorts of like spelling and grammar errors.

356
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Speaker 3: And they love putting stuff in Latin.

357
00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:52,760
Speaker 2: Of course, my.

358
00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:55,760
Speaker 3: Diplomas in Latin. By the way, did I get scammed?

359
00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:59,080
Speaker 3: But so that's it makes it look fancy, it puts

360
00:17:59,119 --> 00:17:59,639
Speaker 3: an edge on it.

361
00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:03,520
Speaker 2: So's the patina you want exactly put it in Latin.

362
00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:07,040
Speaker 3: So we know about like what a diploma or degree

363
00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:10,560
Speaker 3: mill looks like. Take a break, we come back. I'm

364
00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:12,520
Speaker 3: going to tell you about some of the biggest defenders

365
00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:36,359
Speaker 3: and how the law came a call in welcome. Hey, hey,

366
00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:37,600
Speaker 3: diploma mills.

367
00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:38,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's Alma maters.

368
00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:42,000
Speaker 3: We've been around forever. In two thousand and four, FBI

369
00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:45,560
Speaker 3: Special Agent Autho Alan Eazel.

370
00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:49,359
Speaker 2: White, what yeah, is he also think ezel? Okay, I

371
00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:50,440
Speaker 2: love see.

372
00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:54,119
Speaker 3: My neck on my back testify to the House Subcommittee

373
00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:59,280
Speaker 3: on twenty first Century Competitiveness. Quote. Degree mills are not

374
00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:02,399
Speaker 3: just a recent problem, He's all told the committee. We

375
00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:05,040
Speaker 3: have had them in the United States since about eighteen

376
00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:09,040
Speaker 3: thirty five. As long as we have a credential conscious

377
00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:12,160
Speaker 3: society where the degree you possess gets you the promotion

378
00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:15,480
Speaker 3: or salary increase, then we will have degree mills. This

379
00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:18,800
Speaker 3: is education fraud and no different from any other fraud.

380
00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:23,479
Speaker 2: Eighteen the camera, Yeah, we had agree mills longer than

381
00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:24,320
Speaker 2: we've had cameras.

382
00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:28,480
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly. In nineteen seventy eight, Mike Wallace reported for

383
00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:29,160
Speaker 3: sixty minutes.

384
00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:30,560
Speaker 2: Yes, oh yeah, love. Yeah.

385
00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:34,960
Speaker 3: He did an expose where he interviewed the owner of

386
00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:41,159
Speaker 3: California pacifica University and a suspected diploma mill, and the

387
00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:45,919
Speaker 3: guy was arrested mid interview, and he like wound up

388
00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:48,880
Speaker 3: pleading guilty to multiple cuts of mail fraud. He did time,

389
00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:54,320
Speaker 3: did Mike time that he did then find them?

390
00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:56,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, basically, I'll tell you this is when we're recording,

391
00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:58,199
Speaker 2: show up. An hour after I get set up.

392
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,560
Speaker 3: Authorities shut down Dallas State College in Texas in nineteen

393
00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:08,480
Speaker 3: seventy five. The owners turned around and almost immediately opened

394
00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:13,280
Speaker 3: up as Jackson State University in California in California. Yeah,

395
00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:16,000
Speaker 3: I like Jackson up in the Golden I don't know,

396
00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:19,400
Speaker 3: I think so. Then the post office shut down their

397
00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:22,440
Speaker 3: mail there and they disappeared, but they popped up again

398
00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:25,040
Speaker 3: as John Quincy Adams University in Oregon.

399
00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:26,880
Speaker 2: One of this wacked bowl.

400
00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:31,199
Speaker 3: That is the best remscription of this total whackable. It

401
00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:34,359
Speaker 3: took twelve more years before the Dallas State perps were

402
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:37,400
Speaker 3: finally brought to justice. It was the FBI and their

403
00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:40,359
Speaker 3: joint task force with the IRS and the US Postal

404
00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:43,119
Speaker 3: Service SEA. They done did it because all this stuff

405
00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:46,320
Speaker 3: is through the mail. Yeah, there's this little something that

406
00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:49,760
Speaker 3: they all got together and called Operation Diploma Scam, otherwise

407
00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:55,120
Speaker 3: known as dip Scam, Operation dip Scam. So for eleven

408
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:59,920
Speaker 3: years they cracked down on these sixteen federal search warrants,

409
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:04,840
Speaker 3: nineteen federal grand jury indictments and twenty one convictions. Wow,

410
00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:08,240
Speaker 3: pretty good. Along the way, the head of operations for

411
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:14,960
Speaker 3: Operation dip Scam, Special Agent Easel, he he bought. He

412
00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:20,600
Speaker 3: bought personally ten bachelor's degrees, nineteen master's degrees, four PhDs,

413
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:24,000
Speaker 3: and two mds. He's so ed, I mean he really is.

414
00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:28,000
Speaker 3: He's a scholar, anagezic. His wall is filled according to Ezel.

415
00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:30,359
Speaker 2: Frame Business, I'm coming. They're like, oh, we're getting to both.

416
00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:34,199
Speaker 3: There were more than two thousand diploma mills at the

417
00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:38,480
Speaker 3: time and more than two hundred unrecognized A creditors, and

418
00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:40,680
Speaker 3: some of them were operated by the same person.

419
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:42,560
Speaker 2: You know, I'm getting you for your birthday, giving you

420
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,240
Speaker 2: a hand came suitable for free.

421
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:48,320
Speaker 3: I need a PhD. So and then I can just

422
00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:51,080
Speaker 3: be doctor Dutton and let use that for everything.

423
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:54,440
Speaker 2: Your last name you pronounced.

424
00:21:54,080 --> 00:22:00,280
Speaker 3: It like of the tuna. So it all. It all

425
00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:03,679
Speaker 3: started in nineteen eighty the dip scan too, when the

426
00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:08,399
Speaker 3: Charlotte Field Office of the FBI started looking into Southeastern

427
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:13,439
Speaker 3: University in Greenville, South Carolina. This sounds like an established,

428
00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:21,120
Speaker 3: lauded university, Southeastern University green Law for four yards. It's

429
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,240
Speaker 3: actually a degree mill. Run out of a small two

430
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,560
Speaker 3: bedroom house. And so the man who owned and ran

431
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:30,480
Speaker 3: the place actually invited Ezell and another agent who posed

432
00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:32,960
Speaker 3: as a student to tour the operation.

433
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:34,680
Speaker 2: Come over to the student union living room.

434
00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:37,000
Speaker 3: So he's like, come into my little two bedroom house.

435
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:39,159
Speaker 3: He shows them the student records.

436
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:40,000
Speaker 2: Here's creek row.

437
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:46,159
Speaker 3: He shows them the fake diplomas, the seals, the ribbons.

438
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:48,119
Speaker 3: All of this is later going to get seized by

439
00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,400
Speaker 3: the FBI, and so he's just laying it out here. Yeah,

440
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:55,880
Speaker 3: so like pickup color of the ribbon. And seventy one

441
00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:59,960
Speaker 3: of Southeastern's six hundred and twenty quote graduates were eloy

442
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,200
Speaker 3: by federal, state, or local governments.

443
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:04,920
Speaker 2: Wowe wait a minute.

444
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:08,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, so like almost we're getting close to a third. Yeah,

445
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:11,639
Speaker 3: so much for a vetting process, right, So some of

446
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 3: the students they're in on the con they wanted to

447
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:16,040
Speaker 3: use the diploma to get a raised secure a specific

448
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:21,000
Speaker 3: yet others were a little naivete There was a security

449
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:23,560
Speaker 3: guard in Texas. He said he bought a BA in

450
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:28,600
Speaker 3: law enforcement from Southwestern University in Tucson for five hundred

451
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,639
Speaker 3: bucks in nineteen eighty two because he quote wanted something

452
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:33,760
Speaker 3: to hang on my wall. And feel proud about.

453
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:37,760
Speaker 2: Have just bought a star. I mean, that's a similar scam.

454
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:41,480
Speaker 3: So what clued him off that the diploma wasn't legit

455
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 3: was that his transcripts showed that he got good grades

456
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:48,399
Speaker 3: and courses like trigonometry, but he didn't take any trig

457
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,040
Speaker 3: or most of the other courses listed on the transcript

458
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:53,080
Speaker 3: with his name on it. So he took some like

459
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 3: he filled out tests like correspondence education, and they were

460
00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:58,480
Speaker 3: just like whatever, they have one transcript they send out

461
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,639
Speaker 3: to people. So that's the thing, though, you aren't just

462
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:06,159
Speaker 3: really buying the diploma, you're buying the transcripts. Yes, you know,

463
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 3: that's what you really need to get the job.

464
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 2: That's going to be something they need proof.

465
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you're a if you're in an industry where

466
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:16,479
Speaker 3: they want to know, like you know, your degrees, generally

467
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 3: they want to see the transcripts.

468
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:18,920
Speaker 2: Like civil engineering.

469
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 3: Like civil engineering, they're not going to say, just take

470
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,800
Speaker 3: a picture of your diploma. Yeah, they want the transcripts,

471
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:30,200
Speaker 3: and so dip scam. They shut down twenty of diploma mills.

472
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,920
Speaker 3: Nineteen eighty three, a seventy nine year old Arkansas man

473
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 3: named George Lyon. He got sentenced to a year in

474
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:39,639
Speaker 3: prison and find two thousand dollars after he sold Agent

475
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 3: Eazl five phony degrees. He's all said, quote, I complained

476
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 3: to him because a diploma I'd gotten in the mail

477
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,399
Speaker 3: was damaged. He sat there and forged another one for me,

478
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:51,639
Speaker 3: right on the spot. He's like, yeah, it's fine, give me.

479
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:53,360
Speaker 2: I got a good pen.

480
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:57,440
Speaker 3: So nineteen eighty four, John Blazer pleaded guilty to mail

481
00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:00,680
Speaker 3: fraud for sending out degrees from his bogus to universities

482
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 3: of East Georgia and the Bahama Islands.

483
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 2: But wait, his name is real John Blazer.

484
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,440
Speaker 3: John Blazer, Wow Blaze.

485
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 2: And so next time my freestyle, that's what I'm going

486
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 2: to be rhymes of Blazer. Oh go on.

487
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 3: So he got two years in prison. The investigations they're

488
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 3: slow going because it can take a couple of years

489
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 3: years with those Yeah, it can take a couple of

490
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,120
Speaker 3: years to prove up mail and wire fraud. And then

491
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:28,719
Speaker 3: by that time these collegiate con artists they've moved on.

492
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,479
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, they set up the new location, whack them

493
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,680
Speaker 3: all and they get things rolling. Charles Durham of Seneca,

494
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 3: South Carolina, he got charged with mail fraud in connection

495
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 3: with three diploma.

496
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 2: Mills, am I noticing a trend that in the South trend. Okay,

497
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 2: I just wanted in South Carolina, South Carolina specifically, but

498
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:45,719
Speaker 2: I did notice a lot.

499
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:49,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's questionable. He had this interesting defense of his

500
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 3: diploma mills. He said that his diplomas, which cost one

501
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 3: thousand dollars for a doctorate, were only quote expensive novelties.

502
00:25:57,520 --> 00:25:59,399
Speaker 3: It's like something you get from Spencer's.

503
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,359
Speaker 2: Gifts when you go to the pennies stamped and it

504
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 2: says like, oh, you're at the you know whatever, Seattle. Yeah,

505
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 2: like the skylines his life, that Alma.

506
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 3: But at diploma. His lawyer said, quote people who bought

507
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,399
Speaker 3: these diplomas knew exactly what they were getting, and I

508
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,679
Speaker 3: don't think the FBI can show otherwise. Well, yeah, but

509
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:20,360
Speaker 3: you're still selling them. Operation dip Scam's first targets were

510
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,400
Speaker 3: actually fake medical schools. So when you buy a fake

511
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,639
Speaker 3: degree in like numerology or criminal justice, you know you're

512
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:28,879
Speaker 3: duping an employer or a customer, But at the end

513
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,479
Speaker 3: of the day, there's like no physical harm. That's not

514
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 3: true with fake medical schools at all. That's dangerous.

515
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:36,120
Speaker 2: That's a big oh yeah.

516
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:40,160
Speaker 3: And like once the operation was underway, the FBI they're

517
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 3: able to quickly shut down the two worst medical schools,

518
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:48,480
Speaker 3: Johann Kepler School of Medicine and United American Medical College.

519
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 2: There I know, wait a minute, you're telling me about

520
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:53,200
Speaker 2: medical your patients.

521
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 3: But so Dipscam, though their largest case, came to its

522
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:03,680
Speaker 3: climax in October of nineteen eighty seven. Zarenes close you out.

523
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:08,120
Speaker 3: I want you to picture it. You are a bailiff

524
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 3: at the Federal courthouse in Charlotte, North Carolina. It's a

525
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 3: beautiful October day. The leaves are changing and the air

526
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,199
Speaker 3: is crisp in the Queen City. You are assigned to

527
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 3: Courtroom three. It's day twelve of the trial of seven

528
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 3: defendants charged with mail fraud, aiding at a betting and conspiracy.

529
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 3: They ran a bunch of fake colleges Roosevelt University, Loyola University,

530
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:38,639
Speaker 3: Cromwell University, University of England at Oxford, Lafayette University, DePaul University,

531
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 3: and Southern California University, as well as several fake accrediting agencies.

532
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:46,360
Speaker 3: They all sounded like legit places to you, but what

533
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 3: you know, whatever.

534
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 2: Northern California University.

535
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly. You've been told that the prosecution plans to

536
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 3: call a bunch of witnesses and all told more than

537
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,680
Speaker 3: one hundred people will testify during the trial. They got

538
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 3: witnesses from Europe testifying England, France, Belgium, German, Holland. It's

539
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,359
Speaker 3: a bigin, is what I'm trying to say. So today

540
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,439
Speaker 3: hire ed expert John Bear, the Doctor Dante guy and

541
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 3: the conspiracy website. He's appearing as an expert witness and observer.

542
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 3: You're stationed at the back of the courtroom waiting for

543
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:19,639
Speaker 3: the judge to enter in a trial to begin again

544
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 3: for the day. As a smattering of folks settle into

545
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 3: the gallery and attorneys on both sides shuffle papers at

546
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:29,399
Speaker 3: their desks before the bench, you hear a loud commotion out.

547
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:30,679
Speaker 2: In the hall. Should I be telling people to take

548
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:31,159
Speaker 2: their seats?

549
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:33,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, well your nosy. So you step out into the hall.

550
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 3: Of course, you and the other court staff knew this

551
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 3: was coming. But in person of works cameras clicking, reporters

552
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 3: shouting questions, supporters singing hymn's, detractors shouting insults, that's all

553
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 3: going on outside the courthouse doors, but you can hear

554
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 3: it from where you are inside. You watch if the

555
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 3: main courthouse doors open, the commotion is thunders. A small

556
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 3: group of people, flanked by deputies push into the courthouse,

557
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 3: leaving the melee behind. You see two heads in the

558
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 3: middle of the group, both hairsprayed to beat forty one

559
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 3: face plastered with makeup. You can see the eyelashes a

560
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,959
Speaker 3: mile away. The group smooths themselves out and then slips

561
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 3: into courtroom two right next to yours. A woman standing

562
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 3: next to you asks you who that is, Lady. You say,

563
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 3: we just watched Jim and Tammy fay Baker enter the building.

564
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 3: Ooh who? She asked? Has she been living under a rock?

565
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 3: You tell her that Jim Baker is a televangelist who

566
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 3: builked his flock out of the funds that he used

567
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 3: them to pay off affairs and live a lavish lifestyle.

568
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 3: He's in court for embezzlement and fraud an affair. The

569
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 3: woman asks, and right on time, there's another commotion outside

570
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,720
Speaker 3: the courtroom. This time, the figure that pushes through the

571
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 3: boisterous crowd and into the silence of the courthouse hallway

572
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 3: is a brunette who looks more like an eighties video

573
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 3: vixen than a church secretary. That's Jessica Hahn. You tell

574
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 3: the woman next to you the va boom, She replies,

575
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 3: that's who that little torpee guy had an affair, not

576
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 3: an affair. You tell the woman Jessica Han is an

577
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 3: assault victim. You tell her, plain and simple, but you're

578
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,480
Speaker 3: pretty sure she'll get crucified in the press. You tell

579
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 3: the woman that Han got a quarter million dollar payoff

580
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 3: for her silence, and the Charlotte Observer newspaper got winto

581
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 3: the story. Their investigation revealed two sets of books and

582
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 3: a ton of accounting irregularities, and that's what brought them here.

583
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 3: And what's your case, she asks in courtroom three. You

584
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 3: tell her it's a bunch of fake colleges on trial. Interesting,

585
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 3: she says, totally, But not as interesting as those bozos,

586
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 3: you say, gesturing toward courtroom two. Which is why, Aaron,

587
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 3: there's not a whole lot of press coverage of the

588
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 3: college fraud case.

589
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 2: Of course, they got overshadowered huge time.

590
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 3: It is wall to wall Jim and Tammy Fay, both

591
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 3: locally to Charlotte and nationally as well. So there are

592
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 3: little pieces leading up to her.

593
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 2: Those are the jat and.

594
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 3: You get the sense that this was the college thing,

595
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 3: was going to be a big story, and then boom

596
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 3: blows up. So two of the minor players at the

597
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 3: college trial, they had their cases dismissed due to lack

598
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 3: of definitive evidence. The other five main defendants found guilty

599
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 3: by the jury on all twenty seven counts of mail fraud,

600
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 3: aiding at a betting conspiracy. They were sentenced to prison

601
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 3: terms ranging from two to seven years. But again, like

602
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 3: the press was like chugging along, Jim and Tammy fay happen,

603
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 3: everything kind of derails and then it's really only in

604
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 3: like higher education press that you're finding. So remember in

605
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 3: the very top UDP, the University Degree Program, the granddaddy

606
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 3: of all diploma operational of course, UDP was owned by

607
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 3: Jason and Carolyn Abraham of Brooklyn, New York. They were

608
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 3: also known by their Hebrew names Yakov and Shia Rochelle.

609
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:46,239
Speaker 3: They started their operation in the nineties nineteen nineties, and

610
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 3: they recruited quote students over the phone from call centers

611
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 3: in Romania in Israel Wow. And they also they didn't

612
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,719
Speaker 3: just sell diplomas, they sold fake international driver's licenses.

613
00:31:57,880 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 2: What.

614
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,959
Speaker 3: Yeah, so the telemarket were paid on commission and they

615
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 3: got performance based bonuses, and they had a lot of power,

616
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 3: like they could offer degrees on whatever program a study

617
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 3: you wanted.

618
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 2: They're cutting prices. I'll give you a physics degree and

619
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 2: a math degree.

620
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 3: Programs right there. Yeah. So the Abrahams they made sure

621
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 3: that there was background cover for their fake colleges. So

622
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,240
Speaker 3: they had all these websites for the institutions.

623
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 5: LA.

624
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 3: Yes, if you bought a degree, you didn't know which

625
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 3: of these quote universities was going to issue the degree.

626
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 3: You just knew I'm getting a PhD in physics.

627
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 2: It's like buying a flight with Delta.

628
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 3: Who knows what plane is going to be at the gate. Well,

629
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 3: that's just like you wait and then when the diploma arrives. Oh,

630
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 3: I guess I went to the Sheffield Yeah, so it's

631
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 3: probably my guess is it's like what whichever one they

632
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 3: have the most blanks left over for? They just the

633
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 3: top of the pile and UDP. They sent letters to

634
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 3: customers that said, quote, the policy of not disclosing the

635
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 3: name of the university protects you against unscrupulous individuals who

636
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 3: do not approve of self study and lifestyle improvement.

637
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 2: You want plausible deniability, that's what you're looking at. They said.

638
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 3: They also did it to avoid quote bad publicity. So

639
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 3: over the years, UDP sold more than thirty thousand degrees

640
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 3: President of Liberia. That one.

641
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 2: Wait, that was the guy at the top. Okay, I

642
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 2: didn't think it was the real President of Liberia.

643
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, George Way, President of Liberia.

644
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I thought that was a scam. Like he

645
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 2: was like, Hi, I'm George Way, President of Liberia. But

646
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 2: the real president.

647
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 3: President has one of these degrees. The couple made more

648
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 3: than one hundred million dollars.

649
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 2: One hundred million dollars.

650
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 3: Thirty thousand of these degrees.

651
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 2: One hundred million dollars.

652
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 3: In two thousand and three, all for scam degrees, just

653
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 3: for paper, just paper and the illusion. And look where

654
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 3: I got a lot of these people. So the US

655
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 3: Federal Trade Commission.

656
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 2: Have really reduced the value of education.

657
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 3: Completely. They got together with British government authorities, they went

658
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 3: after UDP for both the degrees as well as those

659
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 3: fake international driver's licenses. Oh, got to get them on

660
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,800
Speaker 3: that too. And then the FTC and the Israeli government

661
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 3: authorities they shut down the call center operation in Jerusalem.

662
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:17,839
Speaker 3: The FTC complaints cited quote, deceptive acts or practices in

663
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:22,399
Speaker 3: or affecting commerce, and the Abrahams. They turned over one

664
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 3: hundred thousand dollars in profits, and then they promised, we're

665
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:27,759
Speaker 3: going to stop selling degrees, so.

666
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:29,800
Speaker 2: They got to keep ninety nine million.

667
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:35,360
Speaker 3: Ninety yes, I promised, we're not going to do it again.

668
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 3: Two thousand and four, the Chronicle of Higher Education, they

669
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 3: pointed something out. There was email advertising that looked a

670
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 3: lot like UDPS, and the phone banking was pretty much

671
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 3: identical to their script. And this is after they agreed

672
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 3: to close up shop. And so the Oregon Office of

673
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:57,319
Speaker 3: Degree Authorization, which I don't know exists, they chimed in

674
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 3: that some of the websites that appeared to be UDP

675
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 3: programs products or clones remained in operation.

676
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 2: Now is the Oregon Office of Degree Authentication? They legitimate? Apparently,

677
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 2: How will I know who authenticate the authenticators the creditors.

678
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 3: So it looks like this was all reported, but I'm

679
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 3: not really sure what came of it. I couldn't find

680
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,799
Speaker 3: anything about them beyond twenty ten, but I'm gonna guess

681
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:24,880
Speaker 3: that they're still out there doing this.

682
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 2: I'm betting that this mole has whacked again. Yes, their way,

683
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 2: however that plays there.

684
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 3: Let's take a break.

685
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 2: Okay.

686
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 3: When we come back, I'll have more examples of fake

687
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:36,439
Speaker 3: diplomas for you, but these are way more fun.

688
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, hello, hello, Hi, hi Hi.

689
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 3: I've had some smart dogs and cats in my lifetime.

690
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 2: Are you talking to me?

691
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:06,320
Speaker 3: Yeah? No, just talking to myself.

692
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 2: It's just bragging. You're just like, hey, you know what

693
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:09,799
Speaker 2: I like about us?

694
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:13,440
Speaker 3: Some some weren't so smart, like my dog Casey. It

695
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:16,839
Speaker 3: was just empty behind the eyes, like a big old rocks,

696
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 3: nothing but a cool breeze.

697
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 2: I don't see people like that. Yeah, cool breeze between

698
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:20,840
Speaker 2: the years totally.

699
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 3: Most of my dogs have been pretty clever, some more

700
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:25,440
Speaker 3: than others. I had a dog named Wallace who was

701
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 3: a total genius. Yeah, like a shaggy sky terrier mutt.

702
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 3: He'd stand on his hind legs and uses front paws

703
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,320
Speaker 3: to open doors with like the turning doorknob.

704
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:36,439
Speaker 2: Oh, turn the doorknob, not just push the door open.

705
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 3: He would like twist the knob in between his paws

706
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:42,400
Speaker 3: and then like waltz in a room. It was really

707
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 3: or back it up into him and then walking. It

708
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 3: was really freaky to watch. I love that guy live

709
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 3: to be seventeen years old. Anyway, one of the ways

710
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 3: that investigators caught diploma mills was by having them issued

711
00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 3: degrees to pets, because there's no way the fake college

712
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:01,360
Speaker 3: can dispute that.

713
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 2: Why would they ever be.

714
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:06,160
Speaker 5: Right?

715
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:10,319
Speaker 3: Well, okay, let's start with the basics. Kitty O'Malley a cat.

716
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 3: It sounds like a nice girl. Kitty O'Malley was really

717
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:14,799
Speaker 3: a cat named Spanky.

718
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 2: So in nineteen was a cat named Skanky.

719
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, because you can't put Spanky on the application. His

720
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 3: name Spanky So nineteen seventy three, the Lakeland, Florida newspaper

721
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:32,839
Speaker 3: The Ledger. Oh yeah, they went to Washington High Academy

722
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 3: to get Kitty a high school diploma. Okay, and the

723
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 3: newspaper tried to use the diploma to get Kitty into

724
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 3: like area colleges, but that did That didn't work. They

725
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:44,959
Speaker 3: needed full transcripts and test scores and like an essay

726
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:47,279
Speaker 3: or whatever. But the fact that a cat got a

727
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 3: high school diploma was enough for the state Attorney General's

728
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 3: office to launch an investigation.

729
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 2: From this one news story.

730
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:56,400
Speaker 3: Yeah wow, Another high school grad by dubious means was

731
00:37:56,480 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 3: Oreo Collins born in two thousand and seven, or was

732
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:04,280
Speaker 3: or is? I don't I probably was a tuxedo cat,

733
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 3: and those are so cute. I know a tuxedo cat

734
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 3: named Penny. Oreo, which is not a particularly original name

735
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:14,359
Speaker 3: for a tuxedo cat, got a diploma from Jefferson High

736
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 3: School online in two thousand and nine. And obviously they

737
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 3: lied about our age. Who got this cat a diploma?

738
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 3: As a two year old gets a high school diploma?

739
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 3: What is that?

740
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 2: Intelligent?

741
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:28,400
Speaker 3: This guy, Kelvin Collins, he worked for the Better Business

742
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 3: Bureau of Central Georgia and he was conducting a sting.

743
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 3: Busted got him because of old Oreo Collins. Another high

744
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 3: school grad, Mollie last name redacted. February of twenty twelve.

745
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 3: Reporters from Houston television station KHO. You they got.

746
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 2: A investigative news team.

747
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 3: Uh huh. They got a high school diploma and official

748
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:54,880
Speaker 3: transcript from Lincoln Academy for their photographer's bassett hound. Mollie

749
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 3: and basket hounds are cute, but they're also potentially really stinky.

750
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:02,800
Speaker 2: I just editorial market.

751
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, So the action news team, they paid three hundred

752
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 3: dollars after filling out what they called a quote laughable

753
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 3: easy take home test. The news team was tipped off

754
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 3: to Lincoln Academy by a homeschooling advocacy group that was

755
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 3: trying to like root out phony operations that makes homeschooling

756
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:25,719
Speaker 3: look bad. Next up Wally Brancato. Wally got an associates

757
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 3: degree that was in two thousand and four. A man

758
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 3: named Peter Broncado with the Albany, New York television.

759
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 2: Oilation Wally and Peter Broncato.

760
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:40,719
Speaker 3: Oh you'll find out WRGB. Peter, he worked for this

761
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 3: television station. He applied to and received an associate's degree

762
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 3: from Almeida University. See Peter didn't, but his dog Wally did.

763
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:49,640
Speaker 2: I got you. Yeah.

764
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:53,720
Speaker 3: So here's what Broncado put on Wally's application. Quote plays

765
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 3: with the kids every day, teaches them to interact better

766
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,839
Speaker 3: with each other, teaches them responsibilities like feeding the dog.

767
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 3: And so Almeida University granted Wally a quote life experience

768
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:08,600
Speaker 3: associate degree in childhood development.

769
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 2: Yes, early childhood development, I imagine.

770
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:14,480
Speaker 3: Yeah. The investigation aired and it was a hit. Almeida University,

771
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 3: though was not pleased, no, no. They said that Broncato

772
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 3: perjured himself by creating a false identity using a fabricated

773
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:24,399
Speaker 3: name and date of birth. They're like sue me, sue

774
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 3: you Oka and Almeida University representative said quote, he completed

775
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 3: an application that included a background of the following eight

776
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:36,320
Speaker 3: years tutoring pre K children, curriculum design and development, teaching,

777
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:40,360
Speaker 3: coping skills, and volunteer coaching. I say dogs can do

778
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:41,800
Speaker 3: all of those things totally.

779
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:43,080
Speaker 2: And I also I think that you can get a

780
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 2: degree for this.

781
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,839
Speaker 3: You totally can't. Wally, Though it popped up again in

782
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 3: March two thousand and eight, he didn't transfer and get

783
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:52,880
Speaker 3: a bachelor. So he was featured in a Lake Geneva,

784
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:57,319
Speaker 3: Wisconsin mayoral campaign political cartoon. It was a picture of

785
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,440
Speaker 3: him and a dialogue bubble that said, I grat sduated

786
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:05,400
Speaker 3: with Bill Chessen because mayoral candidate Bill Chessen listed a

787
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:10,239
Speaker 3: bachelor's degree from Almeda University among his accomplishments. And I'm

788
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 3: also curious was Bill Chesson ak C registered Bill?

789
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:21,719
Speaker 2: So whoever was the political operation so caught that one

790
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 2: news and that you need that person in your.

791
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:30,360
Speaker 3: Operation and that's a great college. Yeah, the Zara and

792
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:36,279
Speaker 3: I'd like you to meet Zoe dkatz Zoe Certified Hypnotherapists

793
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 3: Zoe dcats Zoe the cat in German was owned by

794
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 3: psychologist Steve Eichel, and Michael got a psychotherapy certification for

795
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 3: his cat from the American Psychotherapy Association, as well as

796
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:56,359
Speaker 3: a bunch of hypnotherapy credentials from other organizations. Zoe has

797
00:41:56,360 --> 00:42:00,760
Speaker 3: become a cited case study for those researching credential scams,

798
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 3: and she's even appeared in textbooks.

799
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 2: Wow Zoe, look what she can do.

800
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:09,479
Speaker 3: Another hypno cat, George Jackson, registered hypnotherapist. George is also

801
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:13,120
Speaker 3: a cat. In two thousand and nine, Chris Jackson, host

802
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:17,560
Speaker 3: of the BBC show Inside Out Northeast and Cumbria, registered

803
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:21,439
Speaker 3: his cat, George, as a hypnotherapist. Chris created a fake

804
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 3: certificate from a non existing institution and used it to

805
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:30,360
Speaker 3: register with three professional organizations, the British Board of Neurolinguistic Programming,

806
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 3: the United Fellowship of Hypnotherapists and the Professional Hypnotherapy Practitioner Association.

807
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 3: None of them checked the transcripts or the records. They

808
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:43,400
Speaker 3: just certified the cat are you kidding me? And this

809
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 3: was part of a BBC investigation who consulted on the

810
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:51,280
Speaker 3: show Steve Eichel, owner of Fellow Cat hypnotherapist Zoe Dcats,

811
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:52,360
Speaker 3: which a whole network.

812
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 2: At this point, they have each other to lean on.

813
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:58,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. So moving up the achievement ladder, we meet

814
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:05,359
Speaker 3: Lulu Howard. B SKYB Limited versus HP Enterprise Services UK

815
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:08,400
Speaker 3: Limited was a twenty ten case in the England and

816
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 3: Wales High Court. So B sky B British Sky Broadcast.

817
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:18,759
Speaker 3: They provided satellite broadcasting and you know, related services. The defendants,

818
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:23,239
Speaker 3: HP Enterprise Services UK Limited they provided IT services in

819
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:26,799
Speaker 3: their technology, information technologies, all the IT guys.

820
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 2: Yeah.

821
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:29,520
Speaker 3: So the whole thing centered around the procurement of a

822
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,960
Speaker 3: new customer relationship management system so that B sky B

823
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:37,319
Speaker 3: could provide improved service to its customers, focused on telephone

824
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 3: contact between customers and the customer advisors at Sky call centers.

825
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:45,480
Speaker 3: So B sky B selected HP Enterprise to build out

826
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:47,720
Speaker 3: the system, and like, things didn't go so well. Okay,

827
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:51,239
Speaker 3: it's very dry and you're asking Elizabeth, where are the

828
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 3: qut pups?

829
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 2: Elizabeth, I'm noticing no qt pups. Where are they there?

830
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:55,520
Speaker 3: Bring me.

831
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:57,720
Speaker 2: The qt pups, I like top shelf qut pops.

832
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 3: The ones in the caps in the gown was holding diplomas.

833
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:03,480
Speaker 3: Those qute pops, I want you to hold tight. The

834
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 3: defendant's key witness had an MBA from Concordia College in

835
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 3: the US Virgin Islands.

836
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 2: Though so but that was.

837
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:14,400
Speaker 3: Not impressive to Mark Howard, a member of the legal

838
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 3: team for be sky B.

839
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 2: I'm with Mark Howard.

840
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 3: He smelled a fake, so he went out and got

841
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:23,919
Speaker 3: a degree from Concordia for his dog, Lulu. Lulu got

842
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 3: better grades than the key witness, so I'm thinking Mark

843
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:29,360
Speaker 3: paid more for that. The judge found that the witness

844
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:32,279
Speaker 3: had lied. All hell broke loose, and the story is

845
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:34,759
Speaker 3: now a thing of legend in the British legal Oh

846
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:37,319
Speaker 3: really yeah, Because here he's like, oh, so you're an

847
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:39,800
Speaker 3: expert witness, this is your credentials. How about my dog

848
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:40,520
Speaker 3: has better degree?

849
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:42,480
Speaker 2: Yet, do you imagine being a lawyer? And then, like

850
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:45,680
Speaker 2: the rock, You've said it all up, you got the

851
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 2: thing already. The guy sets into your he steps right

852
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:49,720
Speaker 2: into your trap and you're.

853
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 3: Like, oh yeah, Barbara with shaking practically exactly Barbara. Another

854
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:57,560
Speaker 3: one to complete a degree on the road to gainful

855
00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 3: employment was Maxwell Sniffingwell, sniffing so doctor Ben Mays, a

856
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 3: veterinarian in Clinton, Arkansas. He got a degree in theeogeneology

857
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:11,480
Speaker 3: from Belford University on behalf of an English bulldog named

858
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 3: Maxwell sniffing well.

859
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:13,600
Speaker 2: Oh of course, yes.

860
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:20,120
Speaker 3: What is theeogenology, Elizabeth? What is basically veterinary reproductive medicine

861
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 3: and surgery.

862
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:24,760
Speaker 2: Oh so it's like kynecology for dogs, I suppose.

863
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 3: So yeah, so the almost husbandry I would imagine, like

864
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:30,759
Speaker 3: husband but like the surgery part of it.

865
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 2: That's what I was thinking.

866
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 3: The application included his work as a reproductive specialist, noting

867
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 3: his quote natural ability in theeogeneology and quote experimental work

868
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:43,480
Speaker 3: with felions.

869
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:45,080
Speaker 2: Was this one of those I got credit for my

870
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 2: life experiences? Yes, where he's like, I've been birth and

871
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:47,839
Speaker 2: babies for a while.

872
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:50,319
Speaker 3: This was yeah, and but this is for the dog.

873
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:52,799
Speaker 2: This is the dog, and dog baby.

874
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:56,520
Speaker 3: Has experimental work with felions. His understanding of the merits

875
00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:59,440
Speaker 3: of specialization despite a desire to quote do them all.

876
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 3: He got a diploma transcript letter of recommendation after the

877
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 3: vet paid five and forty nine dollars to the university.

878
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:10,320
Speaker 3: He declined the offer to be made an honor student

879
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 3: for another seventy five bucks. Well know MBAs are popular

880
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:19,840
Speaker 3: degrees among pets. Take Pete for Pete's sake. Pete was

881
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 3: a four year old male, short haired half greyhound half terrier.

882
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:24,960
Speaker 3: I was going to ask and he lived in the

883
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 3: Battersea Dogs and Cats Home in London. He was a

884
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:30,279
Speaker 3: shelter pup and Pete was on his way up in

885
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:34,480
Speaker 3: the world though right the BBC investigative program Newsnight was

886
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 3: looking into the American University of London AUOL. They got

887
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:41,799
Speaker 3: a tip that AUOL was not on the up and up,

888
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 3: so Newsnight found hundreds of senior executives that said that

889
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 3: they had degrees from AUOL. The program drew up a

890
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:55,319
Speaker 3: one page fake resume for a management consultant named Peter

891
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:58,920
Speaker 3: Smith known as Pete, living in South London, which included

892
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 3: fifteen years a fake work experience, a fictitious undergrad degree

893
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:07,640
Speaker 3: from a UK university, and then Newsnight sent Pete's CV

894
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 3: to AUOL, along with a completed application for a Master's

895
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:15,320
Speaker 3: in Business an MBA and the fifty pound application fee.

896
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:17,759
Speaker 3: And so this is going to be like credit for

897
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:24,120
Speaker 3: prior learning like that. Yeah, So AUOL asks for applicants

898
00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:28,960
Speaker 3: to provide photocopies of previous qualifications and a photograph of themselves.

899
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:33,919
Speaker 3: Newsnight was unable to provide either since the qualifications didn't

900
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:36,840
Speaker 3: exist and the applicant was a dog. They didn't send

901
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 3: it and they still four days after they send in

902
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 3: what they have the application. AUOL sent Pete an email

903
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:46,280
Speaker 3: saying that his application for a degree based on previous

904
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:51,480
Speaker 3: experience had been successful and once the university had received

905
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:56,840
Speaker 3: his forty five hundred dollars pounds fee, he would be

906
00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:00,160
Speaker 3: registered as an MBA graduate within about two weeks for

907
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:05,359
Speaker 3: hundred Yeah. So the Newsnight reporter called back to check

908
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:07,960
Speaker 3: whether Pete would be required to submit any work, and

909
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 3: the university representative said, quote, no, no. Apparently the a

910
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:15,279
Speaker 3: p e L, which is the accreditation of Previous Experiential

911
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 3: Learning Board, awarded him the full degree immediately based on

912
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:22,200
Speaker 3: his qualification and his professional experience, so he doesn't have

913
00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:23,080
Speaker 3: to do any courses.

914
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:26,400
Speaker 2: Very very impressed, he said. He was a good boy, boy.

915
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:30,600
Speaker 3: Very good boy, good job Petie. As for the hundreds

916
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:34,560
Speaker 3: of senior executives with a UOL.

917
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:36,239
Speaker 2: Was across London across.

918
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:40,600
Speaker 3: Newsnight named names and a bunch of them were blacklisted.

919
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:42,160
Speaker 3: It was nice.

920
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:43,239
Speaker 2: I love it.

921
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:46,800
Speaker 3: I did love that. Another high achieving MBA was Colby Nolan.

922
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:50,399
Speaker 3: Colby Nolan was a house cat, but not just any

923
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 3: house cat. He belonged to a Deputy Attorney General. And

924
00:48:54,640 --> 00:49:00,040
Speaker 3: thanks to Deputy Attorney General, Colby got an MBA in

925
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:02,920
Speaker 3: two thousand and four from Trinity Southern University, a Dallas

926
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:06,759
Speaker 3: based diploma mill. So first, the agent's got the then

927
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:09,920
Speaker 3: six year old FELI and a bachelor's degree in business

928
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:13,479
Speaker 3: administration for like three hundred bucks. Six years old cat

929
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:16,880
Speaker 3: prodigy saren Colby's application.

930
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:18,640
Speaker 2: And see some of his pitches, I mean, his business

931
00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 2: plans were.

932
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:23,759
Speaker 3: On acumen, off the charts. The application that Colby turned

933
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:26,200
Speaker 3: in said he had taken courses at a community college,

934
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:29,239
Speaker 3: that he worked at a fast food restaurant, babysat, and

935
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:30,480
Speaker 3: had a newspaper route.

936
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:33,040
Speaker 2: I heard also included scratching, sniff stickers.

937
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 3: Yes, and a three point five GPA.

938
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:36,080
Speaker 2: Oh okay, So the.

939
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 3: Institution tells Colby that due to the job experience listed

940
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:43,280
Speaker 3: on his application, don't forget. So it's a community college,

941
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:49,040
Speaker 3: a paper route, fast like McDonald's and babysitting. He's eligible

942
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:52,560
Speaker 3: for an executive MBA that he could obtain for another

943
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:55,759
Speaker 3: hundred bucks. Wow, you look at that moves so far

944
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 3: that right, So they recognized town you can.

945
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:00,880
Speaker 2: Babysit, you could run a fortun one hundred company, I

946
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:01,840
Speaker 2: think is what they're saying.

947
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:06,280
Speaker 3: So once Colby had his degree, Pennsylvania Attorney General Jerry

948
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:10,399
Speaker 3: Pappert filed a lawsuit against Trinity Southern University. December two

949
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 3: thousand and four, the Texas Attorney General obtained a temporary

950
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:18,240
Speaker 3: restraining order under the Texas Deceptive Trade Practices Act against

951
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:21,400
Speaker 3: Trinity Southern and its owners, and then the court also

952
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:23,640
Speaker 3: froze the assets of the school.

953
00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:24,640
Speaker 2: Good for them.

954
00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:27,200
Speaker 3: The owners had to pay one hundred thousand dollars in fines,

955
00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:31,240
Speaker 3: were ordered not to market or promote fraudulent, substandard degree

956
00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:35,120
Speaker 3: programs or represent their university as being accredited or affiliated

957
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:36,440
Speaker 3: with legitimate universities.

958
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:37,920
Speaker 2: So they make all these millions and then they had

959
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:39,920
Speaker 2: to pay one hundred thousand dollars and every.

960
00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:41,600
Speaker 3: Time they're like, okay, pay us like one hundred grand

961
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:42,879
Speaker 3: and then say you're not going to do it again.

962
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 2: Promise me you're totally incentivize that by making you pay

963
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:48,520
Speaker 2: us the amount for stamps.

964
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:50,880
Speaker 3: Well and okay, so we talked about high school diploma's,

965
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:53,840
Speaker 3: associate's degrees, nbas, that's bad enough, but as we said,

966
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:57,719
Speaker 3: the terrifying fake degrees, medical fake medical school degrees. And

967
00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:00,920
Speaker 3: I have a pet one for that too, do you.

968
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:05,120
Speaker 3: In two thousand and seven, the Australian Broadcasting Corporation comedy

969
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:08,080
Speaker 3: show The Chasers Wore On everything went after diploma.

970
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:10,360
Speaker 2: I like, it is just a bit everywhere everywhere? What

971
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:13,839
Speaker 2: if we do Thursday? Go look into diploma? But do

972
00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:14,640
Speaker 2: you have a cat?

973
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:17,640
Speaker 3: The host got a medical degree online for his dog's

974
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:18,480
Speaker 3: Sonny Doctor.

975
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:21,080
Speaker 2: Sonny Doctor said, of course, the degree came.

976
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:25,640
Speaker 3: From a notorious diploma mill Ashwood University, and the application

977
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:30,439
Speaker 3: cited Sonny's supposed like work experience, which included quote significant

978
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:34,799
Speaker 3: proctology experience sniffing other dogs bones. Like they just wrote

979
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:37,799
Speaker 3: it out bits and even with that in the application,

980
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:40,919
Speaker 3: he still got the degree and they only care about

981
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:43,480
Speaker 3: the money on it. So Ashwood University has since been

982
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:46,520
Speaker 3: listed as a non accredited degree supplier in the states

983
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:48,000
Speaker 3: of Michigan, Oregon and Texas.

984
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:49,920
Speaker 2: You think a dog could get an archaeology degree for

985
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:53,880
Speaker 2: all that digg in bone into copper lights. I mean,

986
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 2: it's just well.

987
00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:56,920
Speaker 3: And if you go to the doctor and the diploma

988
00:51:57,040 --> 00:52:00,400
Speaker 3: on their walls from Ashwood University, yes, run. First thing

989
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:02,280
Speaker 3: you do is make sure that they write you scripts

990
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 3: for whatever it is you want.

991
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:05,560
Speaker 2: No, I got the window.

992
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:07,479
Speaker 3: Then you book it out the window, then you run

993
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:07,839
Speaker 3: for it.

994
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:10,440
Speaker 2: I don't want to be involved with that doctor on

995
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:11,440
Speaker 2: paper at all.

996
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 3: Just get the scripts and run.

997
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:15,040
Speaker 2: No, I don't think they really were. You know, you

998
00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:18,000
Speaker 2: didn't know. Do you think I can fake plausible deniability?

999
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:21,759
Speaker 2: Look at me, I've got degrees from Ashwood University.

1000
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:23,640
Speaker 3: Sarah was your ridiculous takeaway?

1001
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:27,560
Speaker 2: You know this is not to be too serious, but

1002
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 2: it's really sad to hear that we have reduced a

1003
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:32,279
Speaker 2: degree to just something you flash, so people think they

1004
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:34,399
Speaker 2: can go and buy one, and nobody's like I'm gonna

1005
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:36,000
Speaker 2: look into that. It's like, oh, there it is, let's

1006
00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:38,640
Speaker 2: check that box. So they get thirty five hundred dollars.

1007
00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:40,440
Speaker 2: They get the box checked, and then now they're like,

1008
00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:44,720
Speaker 2: you know, the head account and whatever some telecom or whatever.

1009
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:45,560
Speaker 2: Are you kidding me?

1010
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:46,600
Speaker 3: Well, it means less and less.

1011
00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:48,680
Speaker 2: I guess, not an accountant, because accounts actually do have

1012
00:52:48,719 --> 00:52:49,880
Speaker 2: to get certified.

1013
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:51,440
Speaker 3: But an NBA or NBA.

1014
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:53,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm saying some of the business somebody on the

1015
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:54,360
Speaker 2: C suite.

1016
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:57,080
Speaker 3: I don't geah, right, I feel like it means less

1017
00:52:57,080 --> 00:52:59,760
Speaker 3: and less all the time. That especially if you're dropping

1018
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:03,399
Speaker 3: than it really is, like on legitimate colleges, but like, yeah,

1019
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:04,120
Speaker 3: it means think.

1020
00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:06,160
Speaker 2: How much your college experience meant to you in terms

1021
00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:07,800
Speaker 2: of like forming who you are how you are, and

1022
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:10,640
Speaker 2: the imprimature means something. And then now we reduce it

1023
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:12,840
Speaker 2: to do you have a stamp and do you have

1024
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:15,359
Speaker 2: some paper? Come up with something that has a lot

1025
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:17,120
Speaker 2: of syllables. People will believe that.

1026
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:18,680
Speaker 3: I want to get a piece.

1027
00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:22,040
Speaker 2: It's your ridiculous takeaway, PhD. That's I told you the

1028
00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:23,759
Speaker 2: you're getting that for your birthday. That's it's gonna be

1029
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:26,600
Speaker 2: suitable for framing. You're gonna love it. It'd be great perfect.

1030
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:29,839
Speaker 3: Hey Captain D. Can you give me a talk back?

1031
00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:39,239
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I love you.

1032
00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:46,799
Speaker 5: Hey, this is Kelly, longtime listener. Enjoy the show. So,

1033
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:49,520
Speaker 5: on the subject of doing math on air, there's a

1034
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:52,640
Speaker 5: great local show here in Little Rock, Arkansas, Corey and

1035
00:53:52,680 --> 00:53:56,680
Speaker 5: Patrick sadly just ended. But one of their number one

1036
00:53:57,000 --> 00:54:00,000
Speaker 5: rules was you never do math on the air because

1037
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:02,719
Speaker 5: for some reason you can never math when put on

1038
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:03,879
Speaker 5: the spot or on the air.

1039
00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:07,680
Speaker 3: So I say, it's not just never math on the air,

1040
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:08,439
Speaker 3: just never math.

1041
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:08,680
Speaker 5: No.

1042
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:10,840
Speaker 2: But Corey and Patrick are one hundred percent right. I

1043
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:13,239
Speaker 2: failed earlier in the show. I mean, look, boom, there

1044
00:54:13,239 --> 00:54:15,360
Speaker 2: you go. I can't do mad. I'm with you. I

1045
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:17,480
Speaker 2: can't do math ever. But I don't want to say

1046
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:18,160
Speaker 2: that for the kids.

1047
00:54:18,239 --> 00:54:19,600
Speaker 3: You know, but deal math kids, But.

1048
00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:21,640
Speaker 2: You're gonna put pressure yourself into youll math.

1049
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:24,040
Speaker 3: And get a legitimate degree in it. How about that.

1050
00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:25,279
Speaker 3: That's it. That's all we have.

1051
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:26,359
Speaker 2: You can tag that.

1052
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:30,520
Speaker 3: You can fuck this online at ridiculous crime dot com.

1053
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:33,160
Speaker 3: We're also a ridiculous crime on both Twitter and Instagram.

1054
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:36,040
Speaker 3: Email Ridiculous Crime at gmail dot com. Leave us a

1055
00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:38,919
Speaker 3: talk back on the iHeart app. Don't talk about math,

1056
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:42,520
Speaker 3: but thank you for Kelly. I do appreciate that reach out.

1057
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:51,280
Speaker 3: Ridiculous Crime is hosted by Elizabeth Dutton and Zaren Burnett,

1058
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:55,160
Speaker 3: produced and edited by Dave Cousten, Chancellor of Rude Dude University.

1059
00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:58,960
Speaker 3: Research is by Dean of Mysteries, Marissa Brown and Professor

1060
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:03,000
Speaker 3: of Anthropology the Store Andrea Song Sharpened Tear. The theme

1061
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:07,160
Speaker 3: song is by Registrar of Bogusville State University College University,

1062
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:10,319
Speaker 3: Thomas Lee and Travis Dutton, pH D, M D J

1063
00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:13,560
Speaker 3: D O d I D l mn OP post wardrobe

1064
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:17,280
Speaker 3: is provided by Botany five Hundred. Executive producers are Feli

1065
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:20,760
Speaker 3: and MBA, Ben Bolan and Canine M. D. Noel Brown.

1066
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:32,399
Speaker 5: Redicus Crime Say It One More Times.

1067
00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:36,000
Speaker 1: Crime Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio Four More Podcasts.

1068
00:55:36,120 --> 00:55:39,279
Speaker 1: My Heart Radio visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

1069
00:55:39,320 --> 00:55:41,120
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows,