1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:03,880 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class from how 2 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 3 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: Callie Fry and I'm Tracy Wilson and uh Tracy, as 4 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:20,800 Speaker 1: you and our listeners will recall, Back in January, we 5 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:24,079 Speaker 1: had fashion historian and author April Callaghan of the Fashion 6 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: Institute of Technology on to talk about the stenciling technique 7 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 1: of poshoir and her amazing book on fashion plates that 8 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 1: covers a hundred and fifty years of style as it developed. 9 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:37,400 Speaker 1: And not long after that interview, as April and I 10 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 1: were emailing back and forth, she mentioned a lecture that 11 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 1: she gave a few years ago about World War two 12 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 1: fashion in France, and I was immediately intrigued, and so 13 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 1: she had sent me some of the info about it, 14 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 1: and I asked her to please please please come back 15 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:53,479 Speaker 1: and talk about that. So that is what we were 16 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 1: talking about today. Yeah. I remember when that conversation happened, 17 00:00:57,080 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: and you were immediately so excited. It's kind say try 18 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 1: to say, yes, this cool thing, I want to talk 19 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 1: about it. Uh. Yeah, Well, in addition to it being 20 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 1: something that is is one of your personal interests, the 21 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:12,839 Speaker 1: subject itself is incredibly interesting and not something I ever 22 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 1: had thought out of before. Right, We've talked on the 23 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:20,480 Speaker 1: show when fashion has been dictated by world events because 24 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 1: of things like there was a shortage of fabrics, so 25 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 1: everybody wore things that required less fabric. But this is 26 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 1: a whole other way, more involved, uh, timeline and and 27 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 1: factors that that we're looking at today. Yeah, it's one 28 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 1: of those things that if you are maybe a listener 29 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 1: who is not into fashion stuff, I encourage you to 30 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:42,319 Speaker 1: give it a listen because it might surprise you. We 31 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:44,400 Speaker 1: are going to talk about fashion, but it's really about 32 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 1: how fashion became a tool for the people of France. Yeah, 33 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: So what Holly and April talked about in this interview 34 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: is how fashion reacts the times of conflict and how 35 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 1: fashion became a form of political resistance in France specifically. 36 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: So if you think of fashion is something frevolous that 37 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 1: people shouldn't really spend the time talking about, these insights 38 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 1: that April shares about the place of style and the 39 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 1: greater marketplace and economy of a culture might really change 40 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:20,360 Speaker 1: your mind on that. Yeah, So let's pop righting alrighty, 41 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:22,640 Speaker 1: So today, listeners, we once again have one of my 42 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:25,880 Speaker 1: favorite guests ever, April Callahan back to talk about some 43 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 1: fashion history. Welcome back to the podcast, April. Thank you. 44 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 1: I think I'm blushing right now. Thank you for having me. 45 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 1: I'm always delighted to talk to you because you always 46 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 1: have cool information. And today we are going to talk about, UH, 47 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 1: fashion as a form of rebellion, but not necessarily in 48 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 1: the sense that people might think of in terms of 49 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 1: young people bending rules, but an actual historical moment in time, 50 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:55,960 Speaker 1: which is France during the German occupation in World War Two. Uh. 51 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 1: And April did a lecture on this particular topic at 52 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:00,080 Speaker 1: Yale some years back, and she was kind of have 53 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 1: to share the notes on it with me. So uh, 54 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 1: it seems like just way too rich and cooler topic 55 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 1: to let go by without doing a show on it. 56 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 1: So first I have to ask you what inspired you 57 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 1: to research French fashion during the German occupation? Yeah? Sure, so, UM, 58 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:17,080 Speaker 1: I think I mentioned this last time I was on 59 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:20,079 Speaker 1: the show. But um, the intersection of war and fashion 60 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:22,639 Speaker 1: has always been kind of one of my special interests 61 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 1: as a fashion historian. Um, how does fashion react in 62 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 1: times of crisis? To me, this is a really fascinating 63 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 1: question and a lot of really creative, interesting things happened 64 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: to fashionable clothing and dress during these periods of extreme conflict, 65 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 1: when people are forced to balance the basics subsistence that's 66 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 1: required for their daily lives with this innate human desire 67 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 1: to outwardly define ourselves to others as human beings. Closing 68 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 1: as of course, one of the main ways that we 69 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 1: practice defining ourselves to others. Um. So a few years ago, I, 70 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 1: when I was in I had to speak at that 71 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 1: symposium that you referenced at Yale. UM. It was actually 72 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 1: on street style, so I decided I didn't really want 73 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 1: to speak about contemporary street style because I figured my 74 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 1: fellow presenters were going to cover this with a great prowess. UM. 75 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 1: I wanted to do something a little bit different. So 76 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 1: I started digging back a bit and I became entirely 77 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:25,040 Speaker 1: smitten with how these frenchwomen were using fashion during the 78 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:29,160 Speaker 1: Nazi occupation as this really active form of political resistance. 79 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 1: And ever since then, UM, this is something I've been 80 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 1: into and I actively collect both French and German fashion 81 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 1: magazines from the time period UM basically nineteen thirty nine 82 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: to nineteen and to some it may seem a little 83 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:46,840 Speaker 1: bit odd for the idea of clothing and specifically style 84 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:50,839 Speaker 1: to be a really vital aspect of a country's wartime experience. 85 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:55,600 Speaker 1: But this really, really was a massive concern in France 86 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: when the German occupation began. Can you talk about why 87 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:02,280 Speaker 1: that was the case? Yeah? Yeah, I think that thinking 88 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 1: about fashion and war together can seem absolutely antithetical at first. 89 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:10,920 Speaker 1: And I'm gonna speak fairly generally here when I say 90 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 1: that many people view fashion as this sort of frivolous, 91 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 1: unnecessary luxury and they don't give any do weight to 92 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 1: its role in our economy. But fashion is truly a 93 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 1: cog in this wheel of capitalism. For capitalism to work, 94 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 1: the desire to consume has to be sparked, and the 95 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:34,599 Speaker 1: fashion system is a catalyst for igniting consumers desires to 96 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:38,480 Speaker 1: replace still useful objects with new ones that are perceived 97 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 1: to be more in line with the current mode. And 98 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:45,600 Speaker 1: this is a huge part of what drives the marketplace. Um. 99 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 1: But in terms of France, the sun King himself, Louver 100 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 1: the fourteenths recognize the significance of fashion way way back 101 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 1: in the seventeenth century, and I'm talking to sixteen hundreds here, 102 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:02,600 Speaker 1: and he started actively and aggressively cultivating France's luxury industries 103 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 1: as a way to strengthen his nation's economy. And then 104 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 1: what happened was, over the ensuing century, France really established 105 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 1: itself as this arbiter of style for the whole rest 106 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 1: of the world. So by the time World War Two happened, 107 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:21,280 Speaker 1: by the nineteen forties, there was an international casher associated 108 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: with all things French, and especially French clothing. Fashion was 109 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:29,839 Speaker 1: therefore both a matter of economic stability for the country 110 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 1: but also a matter of national pride. So it's not 111 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 1: really that surprising that it was a hot topic when 112 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:40,279 Speaker 1: the Germans seized control of a large person of France 113 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 1: UM and also with resources in nineteen forty and I 114 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:49,160 Speaker 1: mentioned resources UM. These resources were super important to the 115 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: Germans to keep their war machine functioning. It required all 116 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:57,919 Speaker 1: sorts of basic things like food, metal, fuel, UM. It 117 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:02,719 Speaker 1: required wool and other for clothing, and silk for parachutes 118 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:07,040 Speaker 1: so UM. Under the terms of the armistice, the Germans 119 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 1: retained the right to make demands of France's raw materials 120 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 1: and and this pertains. This is what happens. A system 121 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 1: of rationing starts to be implemented fuel was the first 122 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 1: thing to go scarce. Um. Three months into the occupation, 123 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: food started being rationed. UM. Food stuff like meat, bread, milk, butter, 124 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 1: and eggs, really basic things. Sugar also, Um, those became 125 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 1: subject to rastioning. But more important to what we're talking 126 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: about now, Um. Later that year, the Nazis instituted restrictions 127 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: governing the manufacture and sales of clothing. And you mentioned 128 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 1: in your in your paper that they set up this 129 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 1: point system for allocating wardrobe vouchers. And I'm really curious 130 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 1: how exactly that worked and moreover how it was received 131 00:07:56,720 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 1: by the French. And then you also talk a little 132 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 1: bit about a trend called system D and I want 133 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 1: you to talk about how that arose from this whole 134 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: voucher situation. Yeah. Sure, So how the bachelor system works 135 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 1: was or worked, um, was each French citizen who held 136 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:17,920 Speaker 1: a food ration card, because the food ration system was 137 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 1: implemented first, Um, they were also issued coupons which total 138 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 1: thirty points, and this was where their annual clothing consumption. 139 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 1: So were you to go into a store of boutique 140 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 1: to buy something, you would have to present your coupon 141 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:37,440 Speaker 1: and also pay for the pay for the pay for 142 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 1: the garment or accessory um and this allotment, this number, 143 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 1: how they assigned the points, the value systems to things. 144 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 1: This is really at barely at subsistence level. Um. So, 145 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 1: if you in a single year purchased one woll skirt, 146 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:57,320 Speaker 1: one short sleeved blouse and a pair of cotton stockings, 147 00:08:57,840 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 1: this was essentially all you could buy for the air. 148 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 1: That was it. Um So you can imagine how this 149 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 1: was really demoralizing to the French. You know, fashion had 150 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: been part of their national identity for centuries. This is 151 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:14,319 Speaker 1: this is something that they're very proud about and and 152 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 1: and for um. So what emerged in the wake of 153 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: this clothing restriction system is really super inspiring to me 154 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 1: at least. Um A lot of French women decided that 155 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 1: they were not going to take this lying down. It 156 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 1: was really important to them that they retain their reputation 157 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:38,560 Speaker 1: for chic, and they started coming up with all sorts 158 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:44,079 Speaker 1: of creative workarounds to these clothing restrictions. The first tactic 159 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: they employed became known as the stand in French pronunciation 160 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 1: or system D. You know, it wasn't choice A, B 161 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 1: or C, it was choice D. It was like your 162 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:58,320 Speaker 1: fourth option, you know, the one that you had very 163 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 1: little choice but took a step UM. And what it 164 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: was was a more extreme form of the UM American 165 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 1: campaign that got dubbed Make Do and Men from the 166 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:16,960 Speaker 1: same time period, and both of these campaigns encouraged the recycling, 167 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 1: the reuse and repurposing of garments. So, for instance, UM 168 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 1: they would take old sweaters and unravel them for the 169 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 1: yard and then re nit them into new garments. Or 170 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:30,840 Speaker 1: a man's old suit might be ripped open at the 171 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 1: seams to be used for the textiles and re cut 172 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 1: into a boy's suit or maybe a woman's jacket. UM 173 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: women would take lace or trimmings off old garments that 174 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 1: couldn't be repaired and then transfer them onto new garments. 175 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 1: But UM. One of the funny and most interesting examples 176 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:51,319 Speaker 1: of system day that I've seen was detailed in a 177 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 1: French fashion magazine UH, which provided the really detailed instructions 178 00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 1: like practically step by steps of how to take dog 179 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 1: hair groomed from long haired breeds like poodles, and how 180 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 1: to spin and card it and turn it into knitting yarn. 181 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:13,959 Speaker 1: That's fantastic, And I imagine if you had rabbits you 182 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:16,719 Speaker 1: would be set with Angora, and I'm also wondering what 183 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 1: I have to say. I love system day in terms 184 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 1: of just the d I y angle to it is 185 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 1: so as you said, it's very inspiring and it's sort 186 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 1: of charming, even though it's really a very I'm going 187 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: to use the overword term of fierce, but it really is. 188 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 1: It's such a dig in, like just digging in your 189 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 1: heels and going Nope, you cannot dictate what we wear. 190 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:39,680 Speaker 1: We're going to find our own way. I love it, 191 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 1: love it, love it absolutely. There was like these fashions 192 00:11:42,920 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 1: were defiant basically. Okay, so us now pick up my 193 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:04,599 Speaker 1: interview with Aprokalahan to hear about how shoes in particular 194 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:14,439 Speaker 1: during this time actually have echoes in contemporary fashion. I 195 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 1: know you talk a little bit about this in the 196 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 1: research that you did, but will you talk some about 197 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 1: how rationing changed footwear in France because I think that 198 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:26,840 Speaker 1: is fascinating. Yeah, yeah, and it has an interesting twist 199 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 1: and in connection to contemporary fashion um which I'll speak 200 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:33,959 Speaker 1: about here in a second, but shoes were a huge 201 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 1: problem and occupied France. UM In one alone, the Nazis 202 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 1: took for themselves five million pairs of the country's overall 203 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 1: production of eight million, so more than half UM at 204 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 1: this same time. Under under the governance and rules that 205 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:53,560 Speaker 1: they instituted, the French were only allowed to resold their 206 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:57,079 Speaker 1: shoes once a year and they were allowed to buy 207 00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 1: no more than one new pair of shoes made from 208 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 1: rap shuned materials every four years, so this is a 209 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 1: huge problem. UM Leather was one of the main rash 210 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 1: of materials and seriously un short supply, so cobblers started 211 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:14,439 Speaker 1: resoling their clients shoes with whatever materials they could get 212 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 1: their hands on, and some of these were very bizarre UM, 213 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 1: including old tires. They would waterproof cardboard and use that 214 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:29,079 Speaker 1: and either braid or plate strips of straw and use 215 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: that to resol their clients shoes. UM. But manufacturers at 216 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 1: the time also recognize this problem, so they started turning 217 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 1: to these alternate materials that were unregulated by German mandates 218 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 1: and UM. It's through this necessity that one of the 219 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 1: most iconic looks of the nineteen forties was born. UM 220 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:55,960 Speaker 1: shoemaker started using wood, cork, and plastic, all of which 221 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:59,439 Speaker 1: were unrashed end materials, and they started using to create 222 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 1: heavy platform and wedge shoes, and the thickness of these 223 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 1: ensured the longevity of your purchase right because the height 224 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 1: would take longer to wear it down. So any of 225 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 1: you out there who are fans of wood or cork 226 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 1: wedge shoes that are like super fashionable today, you can 227 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 1: you can, you can thank French ingenuity of this period 228 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 1: next time you you strap them on. That is so 229 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 1: funny to me because we think of that as such, 230 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 1: like particularly in resort where cork cork shoes are so popular, 231 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 1: and it's all because of a time when the idea 232 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 1: of having resort time was really not in the picture 233 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 1: at all. So I love it. Uh. The next thing 234 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about was the rather brazen move 235 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 1: or plan on the part of Germany that ended up 236 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 1: thankfully getting derailed, which was that apparently there was a 237 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 1: plan to move the couture industry out of Paris, which 238 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: is terrifying. Uh. And how exactly did that get derailed? 239 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 1: Like how was that stops? So indeed, yes, um, plans 240 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 1: for the moving of the Paris coutur industry to Germany 241 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 1: were well underway. Um. The Germans recognized the physical significance 242 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 1: of not only French couture, but also their own domestic 243 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 1: fashion industries. Um. It's really curious and a point that 244 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 1: kind of underscores the hypocrisy of the Nazi Party. On 245 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 1: one hand, Um, they were on the domestic come front, 246 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 1: they were officially promoting this archetype of the wholesome German 247 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 1: house frout and mother wearing traditional dress. But on the 248 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 1: other hand, in practice they were actively supporting German high 249 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 1: fashion exports for a monetary game. Um. And I feel 250 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 1: like it's an important point here to make that the 251 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 1: general German populace were also subject um to clothing ration 252 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 1: ing starting in but by that point within Germany it 253 00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 1: was almost a moot point because so much of the 254 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 1: country's own resources had already been drained um. For years 255 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 1: prior to nine nine, the German people had kind of 256 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 1: been railroaded into giving donating whatever they could spare to 257 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 1: the war effort. You know. There there there are instances 258 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 1: of young brides that donating their wedding gowns to the 259 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 1: cause because they thought that the silk might be able 260 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 1: to be used for parachutes. Um. But yes, Um. During 261 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 1: the occupation, the Germans raided the offices of the governing 262 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 1: body of Paris oculture industry, and they summoned to president 263 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 1: at the time, who was the couturier, Lucian A Long. 264 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 1: And it was a little bit of a complicated process 265 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 1: of the Germans back and forth, back and forth, but 266 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:40,000 Speaker 1: Lalong was eventually able to convince them that couture was 267 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 1: too inextricably tied to Paris, that to force it for 268 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 1: a wholesale deportment of the industry to Germany, that that 269 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 1: would kill its spirit, and and also that it was 270 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 1: really kind of an unfeasible proposition to export all of 271 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 1: these tangential industries that supplied the couture. You know, you 272 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 1: had the text plan on manufacturers, you had ribbon in 273 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 1: flower makers, you have dyers, you have leaders, bead makers, embroiners, milliners. 274 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:10,200 Speaker 1: You know, to to move all of those peoples, with 275 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 1: all those people in industries is going to be a 276 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:17,359 Speaker 1: herculean effort, essentially. And your lecture was titled Sleeping Cobras. 277 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:20,639 Speaker 1: Will you explain to us what a sleeping cobra was 278 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 1: in the context of fashion in France in the nineteen forties, 279 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 1: and how was that style emblematic of France really kind 280 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 1: of hanging onto its national identity during this time of occupation. Sure, um, 281 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:35,199 Speaker 1: So I think the term sleeping cobra can be can 282 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 1: apply in a couple different ways. Um. I was kind 283 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 1: of using it in two different ways. And my reference 284 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:43,160 Speaker 1: there um. First it could be UM as a metaphor 285 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 1: for these women right who were kind of silently protesting 286 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 1: UM with the fashions that they were wearing. But the 287 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:55,680 Speaker 1: phrase itself um is something that's loosely based um on 288 00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 1: the writing of some one of the leading coutriers of 289 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 1: the period, elsascape Ali. In one of her autobiographies, she 290 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:06,199 Speaker 1: wrote about the hats that friendshipmen were wearing during and 291 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,920 Speaker 1: just after the occupation, and a lot of people were 292 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:14,919 Speaker 1: legitimately shocked when the first images of Paris appeared after 293 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:20,960 Speaker 1: the liberation, because the fashion seemed so strange, so bizarre. 294 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:26,640 Speaker 1: The silhouette had really become extreme and exaggerated. It had 295 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:31,240 Speaker 1: these really wide, heavily paddaged holders, these tall, clunky shoes, 296 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,920 Speaker 1: and the headlines had risen, they become much shorter. Um. 297 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 1: But the hats, the hats, they were truly bizarre. Um. 298 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 1: Scaparelli called them an incredible horror, and she compared she 299 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 1: compared the giant turbans that these women were wearing. She 300 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:51,919 Speaker 1: compared them two monstrous cobras that had eaten a huge 301 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 1: meal and crawled up to sleep. Um and and Ceasil Beaten, 302 00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:58,680 Speaker 1: who was like great, um, you know, cultural touchstone of 303 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 1: the time, and bomb vivante um. He said, they looked 304 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:08,640 Speaker 1: suspiciously like domestic plumbing. Um, I know, I love it. 305 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 1: But the hats were really kind of one of the 306 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:14,439 Speaker 1: main ways that French women were using fashion as a 307 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 1: form of political resistance during this period. And one of 308 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:20,600 Speaker 1: the reasons for that is the materials. Um. Many of 309 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 1: the materials used to make hats that were used in 310 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 1: millownery were unrestricted, so this became the sort of unexpected 311 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 1: medium through which women were able to wage a silent protest. 312 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 1: And Um, how this kind of happened was is that 313 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 1: in the nineteen thirties hats were a little more trim, 314 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 1: a little more tidy um. But in the nineteen forties 315 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:48,040 Speaker 1: they wharphed into these really sort of outlandish, oversized creations, 316 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:51,680 Speaker 1: and turbans grew so large that some of them actually 317 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 1: required interior wooden architectures that then would be wrapped and 318 00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:01,360 Speaker 1: swathed with like yards and yards of fabrics. So the shapes, 319 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:05,440 Speaker 1: the sizes, and the trimmings of these hats were exaggerated 320 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:10,240 Speaker 1: to the point of being ridiculous. And this was intentional. Um. 321 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:13,680 Speaker 1: When we were basically flaunting extravagance in the face of 322 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:16,639 Speaker 1: the enemy. They had no choice right but to where 323 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 1: these threadbare dresses or things were kind of like mended 324 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:23,399 Speaker 1: and passed. You know, they were making do They were 325 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 1: wearing shoes which may or may not barely be holding together. 326 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:29,360 Speaker 1: So it was through these hats, um, this was their 327 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:33,600 Speaker 1: way to express themselves. And sometimes these hats functioned explicitly 328 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 1: as objects of a revolt. UM. One of my very 329 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:39,159 Speaker 1: favorite hats of the time period, which is in a 330 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:43,120 Speaker 1: collection in France, um it was. It featured a really wide, 331 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:46,960 Speaker 1: upturned brim and the brim had been printed with hash 332 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:51,399 Speaker 1: marks that resemble, um, the hash marks of a radio dial. 333 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 1: And above that it was printed post Parisian and post 334 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:59,159 Speaker 1: Prison had been a really popular radio station before the occupation, 335 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:03,200 Speaker 1: and when the Nazis seized control of the media, it's 336 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,159 Speaker 1: silence postprasion and replaced it with a different station of 337 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:11,159 Speaker 1: the pro German you know, collaborators station. UM. So some 338 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 1: of these hats that they were wearing were actually quite 339 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 1: pointed in the political statements that they were making. And 340 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:24,119 Speaker 1: speaking additionally of women who were really driving some of 341 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 1: this protest, will you talk a little bit about the 342 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 1: Mita nets and how they were really kind of the 343 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:33,520 Speaker 1: arbiters of style in some ways. Yeah, yeah, for sure. 344 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:37,440 Speaker 1: Umnino nets were women who worked in the fashion industry. Um. 345 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 1: Oftentimes they were young women, and they were really kind 346 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 1: of the hands or the worker bees of the fashion industry. 347 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:48,360 Speaker 1: So they had all these technical skills, right, so they 348 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,680 Speaker 1: took system day or System D to a whole new 349 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 1: level of sophistication. Um. They would so old scarves together 350 00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 1: to create these wild patchwork textiles from which they would 351 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 1: create garments. UM. And they had all sorts of fun 352 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:05,880 Speaker 1: with ribbons because ribbons were unrationed, so they would sew 353 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:09,879 Speaker 1: them together to make these really wide, whimsical skirts. UM. 354 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 1: But once again, it was with hats that they were 355 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:16,640 Speaker 1: really sticking it to the Germans. Um. They made enormous 356 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:20,359 Speaker 1: hats from loops and loops of ribbons and scraps of 357 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 1: cardboard and oil cloth, and sometimes they would build like 358 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:29,879 Speaker 1: fully fashioned little vignettes and scenes into the hats. You know, 359 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:32,200 Speaker 1: it might be like a reproduction of a French village 360 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: or a really important French chateau. UM. But there was 361 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:39,879 Speaker 1: an article in Vogue about the Internets right after the 362 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 1: liberation of Paris in Um talking about them and how 363 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 1: many of their creations were intentionally made to annoy the Germans. 364 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 1: And and this is the point that wasn't entirely lost 365 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:55,720 Speaker 1: on Nazi officials. UM. They actually complained to Lucy and 366 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 1: the long head of the sham person to Cow about it, 367 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:02,119 Speaker 1: and his response, I think he was probably loving every 368 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:05,639 Speaker 1: minute of what the midden nuts are doing. But his 369 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 1: official response was I can't do anything about this. These 370 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:14,679 Speaker 1: styles are not being issued by fashion houses. And I 371 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:17,680 Speaker 1: think this really underscores how a lot of these styles 372 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,440 Speaker 1: of the period um were what you were saying, d 373 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:23,679 Speaker 1: I y fashion, these are street styles created by the people. 374 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 1: I love the idea that just by virtue of walking 375 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:30,880 Speaker 1: down the street in the garments that you have made 376 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 1: and chosen to where you are making a huge political statement. Uh. 377 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 1: And in talking about some of these sort of coded 378 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:44,879 Speaker 1: rebellious messages, there is UH some stuff in your lecture 379 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:49,920 Speaker 1: notes about coded messages on belts. You have to talk 380 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 1: about these, yeah, because these are kind of great. Um. 381 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 1: So women were painting or on boordering belts. This is 382 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:01,879 Speaker 1: nothing new, um, but they started doing it during the 383 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 1: occupation with motifs that frequently held hidden meanings. Um. You 384 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 1: might see a very pretty belt decorated with little derek 385 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 1: delicate arabesques. Um, but they're actually vs to symbolize victory. Um. 386 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,679 Speaker 1: Some of the belts you see have musical notes on them, 387 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,720 Speaker 1: which seemed pretty harmless and charming, but if you could 388 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,320 Speaker 1: read music, you would know that their score was actually 389 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:32,679 Speaker 1: taken from patriotic French songs. And one of my favorites 390 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:35,240 Speaker 1: of the period was a belt that was entitled long 391 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:38,480 Speaker 1: Ago and it was hand painted. Um. And it was 392 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 1: hand painted with little images of favorite French dishes which 393 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:49,160 Speaker 1: had disappeared given all the food short dishes. That's so cool, um. 394 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 1: I mean it's one of those things that I suspect 395 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:55,040 Speaker 1: many people at the time, like most German officers, who 396 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:57,200 Speaker 1: are not thinking, oh I bet they're coded messages and 397 00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 1: most ridiculous belts. So it's such a wonderful sort of 398 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:07,639 Speaker 1: sneaky way is still like assert your your feelings on 399 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 1: the matter of occupation. Yeah, so in some alternate universe, 400 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 1: the fashion industry moved to Berlin and probably died off, 401 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,960 Speaker 1: and I being interested in fashion and clothing, I am 402 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 1: selfishly glad that it is not this universe. Thank you, 403 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 1: Lucien Loong. There's also I'm really interested in some of 404 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,960 Speaker 1: the stranger trends that grew out of this time, like 405 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 1: the turban so big that you had to have a 406 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 1: wooden infrastructure under it. Yeah, yeah, it's it's a lot 407 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 1: to think about, uh, wearing on your head. And I 408 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:53,120 Speaker 1: really love the secret messages that are that were embedded 409 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:54,679 Speaker 1: in some of the fashions of the day, and the 410 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 1: way the Midinets were purposely making annoying clothes just to 411 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 1: anger the Germans. April is so good at like doling 412 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,240 Speaker 1: out so many really inspiring and interesting tidbits, and now 413 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 1: I totally want to embed secret messages in everything I make. 414 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,600 Speaker 1: So next April is going to share details of fashion 415 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,359 Speaker 1: at the race track during the war. First, we're gonna 416 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:16,159 Speaker 1: have another brief break for a word from one of 417 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 1: our sponsors. So this last segment is going to give 418 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 1: you a really wonderful Easter egg about the term clothes 419 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 1: horse as well as some pretty mind blowing information about 420 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 1: how salons, or one salon in particular, was using some 421 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:42,120 Speaker 1: very unusual power to dry ladies hair. You also talk 422 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:46,680 Speaker 1: a little bit about how race courses actually became sort 423 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:50,080 Speaker 1: of de facto runways during occupation. You expound on that 424 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 1: a little bit, so, Um, the concept of the race 425 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,159 Speaker 1: track as runway isn't actually something that's unique to the 426 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,960 Speaker 1: period of the occupation. Attending the races was im mensely 427 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 1: popular pastime for decades prior um. Along with this theater, 428 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:10,640 Speaker 1: it was kind of the place to see and be seen. Um. 429 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 1: So much so that fashion designers would send models or 430 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 1: actresses to the races dressed in their latest collections as 431 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,160 Speaker 1: a form of advertisement. And this is really an established 432 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 1: practice by the nineteen forties. So the association between women, 433 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:31,160 Speaker 1: clothes and horses was so strong. This is actually where 434 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 1: the term clothes horse comes from. Um. The models were 435 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,439 Speaker 1: there to work showing off the clothes, just like the 436 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:43,920 Speaker 1: horses were there to work racing. Um. And during the teens. Um, 437 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,919 Speaker 1: during the nineteen teens, you also end in fashion periodicals 438 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 1: you sometimes also see professional models slangy referred to as 439 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:57,960 Speaker 1: jockeys for much the same reason. Uh, there was some 440 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,639 Speaker 1: some other really wonderful tidbits in your your notes, and 441 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:05,320 Speaker 1: one of them that just delighted me and sort of 442 00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:07,800 Speaker 1: blew me away at the same time is this piece 443 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:12,919 Speaker 1: about cyclists, like bicyclists being used to dry hair in 444 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,240 Speaker 1: the salon of the hair dressers your vet. Well, you 445 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 1: talk a little bit about how that worked, right, so um, 446 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:22,840 Speaker 1: hand in hand with all this other ration ng and 447 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:26,399 Speaker 1: shortages that are that was happening at the time. You 448 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,639 Speaker 1: can imagine it's wartime, right, so cold. It was also 449 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:33,880 Speaker 1: in shortest supply, and at certain points electricity was being rationed, 450 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 1: so you may have, you know, a few hours of 451 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:41,160 Speaker 1: electricity here or there. Um. But the hairstyles that were 452 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:43,840 Speaker 1: really fashionable at the time required frequent visits to the 453 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:47,720 Speaker 1: hair dresser to maintain that sort of quoft waved look, 454 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 1: and usually that would be set under a hair dryer. 455 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:55,720 Speaker 1: So with all of a sudden spotty electricity, there was 456 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 1: one particular hairdressers your vese Um. He he installed a 457 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 1: tandem bike in the basement of his salon and he 458 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 1: hooked it up to this intricate contraption whereby he attached 459 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 1: his hair dryers to stove pipes, and those two fans 460 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:15,719 Speaker 1: and then the fans were were powered by teams of 461 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:19,360 Speaker 1: of two people riding the bike in the basement. UM. 462 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:22,480 Speaker 1: And this is something that Lee Miller wrote about um 463 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 1: at the time, and she also took photos documenting this. 464 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 1: UM and this was another reason that turbans were popular 465 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:32,840 Speaker 1: at the time. UM. So if your quoff was less 466 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 1: than ideal, if you hadn't been able to visit the hairdresser, 467 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:39,200 Speaker 1: you could cover it. Or alternately, you could use a 468 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 1: turban to cover a wet set when you were leaving 469 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:47,600 Speaker 1: the salon. I just love the idea of these poor 470 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 1: people trapped in the basement bicycling so people can have 471 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 1: beautiful hair. Um. She She writes that she writes that 472 00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 1: they would power produce enough power to dry around like 473 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 1: a hundred women's heads a day. That's impressive. You talked 474 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:09,200 Speaker 1: a little bit about uh wedge shoes still being a 475 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 1: thing today, but was there were there any other long 476 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 1: lasting echoes in fashion from this sort of stylish rebellion 477 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 1: that was going on in France in World War Two. 478 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know so much about the stylish 479 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 1: rebellion part, but the nineteen fourties are. It's always a 480 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 1: touchstone for fashion designers, so you always will see from 481 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 1: time to time these references coming back to those really 482 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 1: heavily padded UM, wide shoulders UM and the narrow nipped 483 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 1: waiste UM. Readily I can think of. I think Memo 484 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:44,240 Speaker 1: did a really great collection in two thousand eleven that 485 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 1: was kind of loosely based on that silhouette that was 486 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:51,520 Speaker 1: fantastic UM. But but yeah, really it's it's where we 487 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:56,240 Speaker 1: are today with with the very explicit connection between rationing 488 00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,320 Speaker 1: and and fashion today would absolutely be with the shooes, 489 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:04,600 Speaker 1: the platform of wed shoes that we were today. Uh. 490 00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:07,320 Speaker 1: And I have to ask if there were one style 491 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:11,240 Speaker 1: from this moment in time, from this sort of forced 492 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 1: creativity that was going on, that you could bring back today, 493 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,200 Speaker 1: what would you choose? You know, I don't know if 494 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:21,160 Speaker 1: it's so much about a specific style that I would 495 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 1: bring back and more about embracing a certain energy or 496 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:28,480 Speaker 1: mood um. And despite the fact that these were obviously 497 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:31,720 Speaker 1: very very difficult times, I don't I don't you know, 498 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:36,560 Speaker 1: want to um gloss over that these these were horrific 499 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:40,960 Speaker 1: times for a lot of people. But in these fashions 500 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:44,800 Speaker 1: you can still feel the certain vivra. Right. They were 501 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 1: very spirited, they're very optimistic, um, and sometimes they were 502 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 1: outright funny and laughable. So I guess what I would 503 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 1: choose to take away from that is like, really embracing 504 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:58,760 Speaker 1: this sense of playfulness in fashion, you know, have fun 505 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:02,880 Speaker 1: with fashion. Be bold, don't be afraid to make a statement. 506 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 1: These ladies were making statements all over the play. And 507 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 1: if you want to make a different statement the next day, 508 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 1: that's okay. You have her mission making and make you 509 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 1: another different statement, you know, the day after. You know, 510 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,080 Speaker 1: you kind of catch my drift. I think that if 511 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:21,560 Speaker 1: you're having fun with fashion, there aren't any mistakes, at 512 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:25,360 Speaker 1: least in my book. Oh amen, I'm with you. Um. 513 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,400 Speaker 1: I'm still gonna lobby though for the belts to come back, 514 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 1: some belts embroidered with potatoes. Well, maybe some designer will 515 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,040 Speaker 1: hear this and a little spark will happen. We can 516 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 1: only hope. I really love the idea of music, you know, 517 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,440 Speaker 1: laid out on your your belt or any other accessory. 518 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:47,880 Speaker 1: It's so sweet. Um. Again, I always feel so lucky 519 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:49,479 Speaker 1: when we get to talk to you, because you have 520 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:54,040 Speaker 1: so much cool information about fashion and history. And last 521 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:55,719 Speaker 1: time you were on, we talked a lot about your 522 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:59,080 Speaker 1: book Fashion in the Art of Poshoir and also your 523 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,360 Speaker 1: book Fashion Plate The hundred and fifty Years of Style, 524 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:03,960 Speaker 1: which continue to be spectacular. But there is a cool 525 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:07,760 Speaker 1: new development. Your fashion Plates book is coming out in 526 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:12,120 Speaker 1: paperback this fall. Yes, it is true, it is true. Um. 527 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 1: It is actually already available for pre order on Amazon. UM. 528 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,120 Speaker 1: So the previous edition was a luxury edition for so 529 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,280 Speaker 1: for any of you listeners who may have been detured 530 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:26,560 Speaker 1: by its hefty price point, um, there is now a 531 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:31,200 Speaker 1: much more attainable accessible version available on Amazon order and 532 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:32,480 Speaker 1: it will be out in a few months. And if 533 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:36,120 Speaker 1: the cover is the same one that's currently posted on Amazon, 534 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 1: it's a very cool cover, like you get some it is. 535 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 1: I actually just approved the back cover last week. Uh, 536 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,520 Speaker 1: and I will once again sing the praises of that book. 537 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,000 Speaker 1: I love it so much. It's just such a feast 538 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,800 Speaker 1: for the eyes, and it's really the soul. If you're 539 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:53,280 Speaker 1: into design at all, whether you're into clothing or any 540 00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,440 Speaker 1: other kind of design, you see so much of like 541 00:33:56,520 --> 00:34:00,480 Speaker 1: how human taste is developing through the years just by 542 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,880 Speaker 1: looking at the clothing. So it's absolutely beautiful and I 543 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:06,280 Speaker 1: can't recommend it enough. Uh, April, thank you so much 544 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:09,280 Speaker 1: for coming and talking to us about World War two fashion. 545 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:11,960 Speaker 1: How can people find you if they want to hear 546 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:15,239 Speaker 1: more from you online? Of course? Um So you can 547 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:18,919 Speaker 1: follow f I T Special Collections on Instagram at at 548 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:22,440 Speaker 1: f I T Special Collections, and you can also search 549 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:27,080 Speaker 1: online for our blog where we cover really fun cool 550 00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:29,840 Speaker 1: things that we have, um and you can just search 551 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:33,480 Speaker 1: f I T Material Mode blog. The blog is called 552 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,839 Speaker 1: material Mode. I'm actually going to post something fresh and 553 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:41,640 Speaker 1: new right after we get off the phone here. So's excellent, 554 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:43,479 Speaker 1: and we will also put a link to that blog 555 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,279 Speaker 1: in our show notes. April again, thank you so much. 556 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:57,000 Speaker 1: You're just a delight Thank you. Like I said, so, 557 00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:00,440 Speaker 1: I personally hope all of our listeners embrace play fullness 558 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:04,480 Speaker 1: in fashion is April encourages let's all start embroidering rebellious 559 00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:08,480 Speaker 1: sheet music into our accessories. And one more time, April's 560 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,360 Speaker 1: new paperback version of fashion Plates, A hundred and fifty 561 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,400 Speaker 1: Years of Style is coming out this fall, and you 562 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,279 Speaker 1: can actually pre order that now. Yeah, and it's sort 563 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,280 Speaker 1: of a much more affordable price point than the giant 564 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,320 Speaker 1: uh sort of folio. Like she called it the luxury version, 565 00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:24,279 Speaker 1: so you will get all of that beautiful stuff, but 566 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:26,759 Speaker 1: you will not have to pay quite as much. Uh. 567 00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,680 Speaker 1: And now we're going to read a little bit of 568 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,239 Speaker 1: a listener mail. If that's cool. I would love to 569 00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:34,760 Speaker 1: hear some listener mail. This is one of those pieces 570 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,759 Speaker 1: of listener mail where I was like, this is so cool. Uh. 571 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:40,239 Speaker 1: It is from our listener June, and it is in 572 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:44,320 Speaker 1: relation to our ladies of the United States Postal Service episode. 573 00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:47,200 Speaker 1: She says, Hello, Holly and Tracy. I was so excited 574 00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:49,319 Speaker 1: when I listened to last week's episode on women in 575 00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:53,520 Speaker 1: the USPS. Normally, postal history tends to have a narrow audience. 576 00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:55,719 Speaker 1: My family and friends just roll their eyes when I 577 00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,480 Speaker 1: relate an anecdote or I start gushing over the most 578 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:02,360 Speaker 1: recent artifacts we've received. You cited the historian section of 579 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:04,640 Speaker 1: USPS dot com is a source, so I know you've 580 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:08,480 Speaker 1: read the sections. They're regarding women, postmasters, mail carriers, and 581 00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:12,280 Speaker 1: at postal headquarters. The podcast also made a brief mention 582 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:14,680 Speaker 1: of their being separate windows for women. That is a 583 00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:17,160 Speaker 1: topic I have been working on for the past few months. 584 00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:21,000 Speaker 1: She has actually attached a copy of some of the 585 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:23,160 Speaker 1: work she's been doing, which will end up on the 586 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,799 Speaker 1: Postal Service website very soon. Uh, because she is a 587 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:29,600 Speaker 1: historian for them. She is actually a research analyst for 588 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:31,680 Speaker 1: them that studies postal history, which I think is just 589 00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:34,360 Speaker 1: the coolest. And she says the windows seem to have 590 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,880 Speaker 1: been used primarily for delivery to segregate women picking up 591 00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:41,359 Speaker 1: mail at general delivery, but post offices of the era 592 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:45,600 Speaker 1: often had separate windows for delivery money orders, registered letters, 593 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:50,760 Speaker 1: and stamp purchases. Post Office regulations don't address ladies windows 594 00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:52,799 Speaker 1: in any manner, so it's hard to say if other 595 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:56,080 Speaker 1: services were offered. Inclusion of a ladies window in a 596 00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,840 Speaker 1: facility seems to have been decided by local postmasters, although 597 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:04,440 Speaker 1: architect Commy B. Young often designated separate ladies entrances and 598 00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:08,239 Speaker 1: noted a lady's delivery window or room which always makes 599 00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:11,400 Speaker 1: her think of a maternity ward. Uh. Newspapers seemed to 600 00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,640 Speaker 1: love anecdotes regarding the ladies windows. Some of these painted 601 00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:17,200 Speaker 1: women as being clueless regarding the ways of the world 602 00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:20,279 Speaker 1: once they ventured out of their home, while conversely, some 603 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:23,279 Speaker 1: depicted ladies as being wiser and more discerning than the 604 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:27,160 Speaker 1: male customers, tales of woe regarding women who received news 605 00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:30,279 Speaker 1: of an unfaithful partner, or call for weeks waiting for 606 00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:33,279 Speaker 1: a letter that does not come. The ladies windows were 607 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,439 Speaker 1: often cited as being sources of moral turpitude, both from 608 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:40,800 Speaker 1: young ladies engaging in clandestine correspondence and that madam's waited 609 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:43,600 Speaker 1: near the window in in some cities, ready to tempt 610 00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:47,719 Speaker 1: women who had not received anticipated funds into a life 611 00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:50,560 Speaker 1: of vice. When I first approached the topic, I thought 612 00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:52,920 Speaker 1: the ladies windows were limited to big cities, but I 613 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:56,200 Speaker 1: have found newspaper references to them being in more than 614 00:37:56,280 --> 00:38:00,600 Speaker 1: seventy five offices in cities and small towns. Some understudies 615 00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:02,839 Speaker 1: writers have asserted that the separate window was a way 616 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:05,959 Speaker 1: to keep women away from the important business conducted by men. 617 00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:09,680 Speaker 1: Others have attributed it to a sense of chivalry. In 618 00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:12,200 Speaker 1: many cases, it seems to have given women the freedom 619 00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:15,480 Speaker 1: to keep their correspondence private, without their letters passing through 620 00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:19,040 Speaker 1: the hands of parents, husbands, or servants. The ladies windows 621 00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,480 Speaker 1: seemed to have died out less from women gaining rights 622 00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:24,840 Speaker 1: than from the wider availability of mail delivery, eliminating the 623 00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:28,799 Speaker 1: need to call for their letters. Uh, June, this is 624 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:30,920 Speaker 1: the coolest. I feel like so lucky that we have 625 00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:34,560 Speaker 1: this insider information and we got to see her research 626 00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:38,719 Speaker 1: ahead of going public. Yeah, it's very very cool, and 627 00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:40,880 Speaker 1: I so appreciate her taking the time to write that 628 00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:44,560 Speaker 1: out to us. So, uh, thank you, thank you, thank you. June. 629 00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:47,440 Speaker 1: I genuinely just loved it. Uh. If you would like 630 00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:49,040 Speaker 1: to write to us, you can do so at History 631 00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:51,719 Speaker 1: Podcast at house stuff works dot com. You can also 632 00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:54,040 Speaker 1: connect with us at Facebook dot com, slash missed in 633 00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:57,600 Speaker 1: History on Twitter and missed in History at pitchest dot com, 634 00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:01,680 Speaker 1: slash missed in History and missed in History tumbler dot com, uh, 635 00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:04,480 Speaker 1: and on Instagram at mist in history. If you would 636 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:07,120 Speaker 1: like to learn a little bit about kind of something 637 00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:09,040 Speaker 1: related to what we talked about today, you can go 638 00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:11,400 Speaker 1: to our parents site, how stuff Works. Just type in 639 00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,439 Speaker 1: w W two or World War two in the text 640 00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:16,440 Speaker 1: box and you're going to get so many articles. You 641 00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:18,959 Speaker 1: will get things about the aircraft of World War Two. 642 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:21,520 Speaker 1: You will get quizzes about World War Two, basically things 643 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:23,480 Speaker 1: to keep you busy for a long time. If you 644 00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:26,719 Speaker 1: are a fan of studying World War two history, If 645 00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:28,239 Speaker 1: you would like to visit us come and do that 646 00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:30,719 Speaker 1: at mist in history dot com, where we have all 647 00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:33,280 Speaker 1: of our back catalog of episodes from the very beginning. 648 00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:35,800 Speaker 1: We have show notes from the episode since Tracy and 649 00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:38,000 Speaker 1: I have been working on the podcast as well as 650 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,560 Speaker 1: occasional other goodies, so we encourage you come and visit 651 00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:42,640 Speaker 1: us at how stuff works dot com and missed in 652 00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:50,400 Speaker 1: history dot com for more on those and thousands of 653 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:52,280 Speaker 1: other topics to workst