1
00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,600
Speaker 1: Hey, lady, is doctor dom here. If you like this

2
00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:07,240
Speaker 1: show and you want to make your own, let me

3
00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:10,840
Speaker 1: tell you about the free platform Anchor. It's a creation

4
00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:13,800
Speaker 1: tool that allows you to record and edit your podcast

5
00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,280
Speaker 1: right from your phone or computer. You can add songs

6
00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:21,040
Speaker 1: from Spotify and create any type of content that you

7
00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:24,400
Speaker 1: are looking for. Anchor will distribute it all for you

8
00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:28,440
Speaker 1: so it can be heard on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and more.

9
00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:32,040
Speaker 1: Download the free Anchor app or go to anchor dot

10
00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:33,800
Speaker 1: fm to get started.

11
00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:37,639
Speaker 2: On this week's episode in her Space to.

12
00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:44,120
Speaker 3: Really shift into radical acceptance. So radical acceptance, we would

13
00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:47,440
Speaker 3: say within our community, it is what it is. Right.

14
00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:50,560
Speaker 3: She is who she is, I am who I am,

15
00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:55,200
Speaker 3: This relationship is what it is. And so I released

16
00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:58,960
Speaker 3: the fantasy, and I grieve that I will not get

17
00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:02,760
Speaker 3: the fantasy. But now I have to come to terms

18
00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:05,240
Speaker 3: with what do I want to do with what is?

19
00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:10,600
Speaker 4: Today's episode is sure to provide you with motivation, inspiration,

20
00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:14,319
Speaker 4: or even a fresh perspective. If you have any AHA

21
00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:17,800
Speaker 4: moments or if you feel comforted throughout the episode, Lady,

22
00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:19,800
Speaker 4: please leave us a review and tell us what we're

23
00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:22,000
Speaker 4: doing right so we can stay on track. Also, we

24
00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:25,240
Speaker 4: release episodes every Friday, so be sure to subscribe on

25
00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:28,440
Speaker 4: iTunes and visit Herspace podcast dot com and enter your

26
00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:31,160
Speaker 4: email address to get updates about our live events and

27
00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:34,160
Speaker 4: all the new beginnings that we have for this year.

28
00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:40,399
Speaker 5: Welcome to her Space, a podcast dedicated to uplifting women

29
00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:45,680
Speaker 5: like you. We're your hosts, doctor Dominique Broussard, a college

30
00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:47,920
Speaker 5: professor and psychologist.

31
00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:52,160
Speaker 4: And Terry Lomax, a techie and motivational speaker. In a

32
00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:56,800
Speaker 4: world where black women are often misrepresented and misunderstood, please

33
00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:01,600
Speaker 4: join us as we initiate authentic converse on everything from

34
00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:05,080
Speaker 4: fibroids to fake friends, and create a safe space where

35
00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:06,240
Speaker 4: black women can just.

36
00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:16,440
Speaker 2: Be Hey, lady, it's Terry here from the Heirspace podcast

37
00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:19,360
Speaker 2: and I have some exciting news for you. I just

38
00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:22,799
Speaker 2: published my self help book, How to Glow Up as

39
00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:26,079
Speaker 2: You Grow Up. Your go to guide for overcoming obstacles

40
00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:31,000
Speaker 2: and making lemonade. So if you've ever experienced loss, childhood, trauma,

41
00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:35,440
Speaker 2: a narcissistic partner, or depression, this book is just for you.

42
00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:39,760
Speaker 2: If you visit glowupbook dot com again, that's glow upbook

43
00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:42,960
Speaker 2: dot com. You can order your copy today and you

44
00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:45,880
Speaker 2: will surely be inspired. So I hope that you decide

45
00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:48,280
Speaker 2: to join me on this journey and I'll see you soon.

46
00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:53,200
Speaker 4: All right, lady, get ready, get ready? We are so

47
00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:55,799
Speaker 4: excited about today's episode.

48
00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:56,200
Speaker 3: Okay.

49
00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:01,360
Speaker 4: Doctor Tang O'Bryant Davis is a licensed psychologist, ordained minister,

50
00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:05,280
Speaker 4: and sacred artist who has worked nationally and globally to

51
00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:10,600
Speaker 4: provide relief and empowerment to marginalized persons. She's an associate

52
00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:14,720
Speaker 4: professor at Pepperdine University and a past president of the

53
00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:20,519
Speaker 4: Society for the Psychology of Women. Her contributions to psychological research, policy,

54
00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:26,200
Speaker 4: and practice have been honored by national and regional psychological associations.

55
00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:29,799
Speaker 4: She has served as a mental health media consultant for

56
00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:34,760
Speaker 4: numerous print, radio, and television media outlets, including but not

57
00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:44,720
Speaker 4: limited to, the Huffington Posts, MPR, CBS, Oxygen, CNN, bt TV, one, Lifetime,

58
00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:50,880
Speaker 4: and WEETV, and she gave us an incredible episode, season three,

59
00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:56,400
Speaker 4: episode twelve of the Heirspace podcast called Healing Intergenerational Trauma.

60
00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:59,160
Speaker 4: You have got to go check that out, Doctor Tamo.

61
00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:00,760
Speaker 4: Welcome back to her Space.

62
00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:05,520
Speaker 3: Yay. I am so glad to be with you all.

63
00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:09,880
Speaker 5: What a treat yes, and we are so excited to

64
00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:13,200
Speaker 5: have you back with us. So we are going to

65
00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:19,120
Speaker 5: jump right in our quote of the day. As your

66
00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:26,599
Speaker 5: clarity grows, you recognize sometimes it's not about releasing, but

67
00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:33,960
Speaker 5: instead acknowledging what's already gone or what was never there.

68
00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:39,200
Speaker 5: Doctor Tamla, you know those words I do.

69
00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:41,520
Speaker 3: Sounds very familiar.

70
00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:47,080
Speaker 5: Yet, lady, if you are not following doctor Tayla on

71
00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:54,599
Speaker 5: social media, please do. Every day. Doctor Tama blesses us

72
00:04:54,839 --> 00:05:00,440
Speaker 5: with gems like quotes like our quote of the day

73
00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:07,360
Speaker 5: that are meant to inspire and empower and enlighten. And

74
00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:12,159
Speaker 5: so as we dive into our topic for today, the

75
00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:17,360
Speaker 5: mother daughter relationship, Doctor Tama, I don't know if that

76
00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:22,760
Speaker 5: quote was meant for that particular relationship, but I know

77
00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:26,560
Speaker 5: as Terry and I were prepping for this episode, that

78
00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:31,240
Speaker 5: quote resonated with both of us as we think about

79
00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:32,800
Speaker 5: the mother daughter relationship.

80
00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:39,680
Speaker 3: It's so important because sometimes we have in our minds

81
00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:44,640
Speaker 3: and ideal, right, a picture of what was the mother

82
00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:49,200
Speaker 3: you wanted, how you think a mother ought to be.

83
00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:53,200
Speaker 3: It might even be the fantasy based on what you

84
00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:57,600
Speaker 3: think about other people's relationship with their mother. And so

85
00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:02,360
Speaker 3: if what you wanted or needed is not what you received.

86
00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:07,000
Speaker 3: There's a grieving in that, but there also needs to

87
00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:11,800
Speaker 3: be an acceptance of that truth, instead of continuing to

88
00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:17,400
Speaker 3: set ourselves up for frustration and disappointment that here it

89
00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:22,000
Speaker 3: is another time that my mother was not the mother

90
00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:29,360
Speaker 3: I wanted, and so instead to really shift into radical acceptance.

91
00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:33,400
Speaker 3: So radical acceptance we would say within our community, it

92
00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:36,800
Speaker 3: is what it is right, she is who she is,

93
00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:40,520
Speaker 3: I am who I am, This relationship is what it is.

94
00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:45,960
Speaker 3: And so I released the fantasy, and I grieve that

95
00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:49,240
Speaker 3: I will not get the fantasy. But now I have

96
00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:52,040
Speaker 3: to come to terms with what do I want to

97
00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:54,960
Speaker 3: do with what is? What do I want to do

98
00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:57,240
Speaker 3: with who I am and who she is and what

99
00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:01,719
Speaker 3: this is? And for some peace people, it is grieving

100
00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:05,839
Speaker 3: what was lost. I had worked with clients who, for example,

101
00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:09,760
Speaker 3: had a great relationship with their mom until their mom

102
00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:14,040
Speaker 3: got a new boyfriend stepfather, and that really changed the

103
00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:17,920
Speaker 3: dynamic of feeling kind of pushed out or having to

104
00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:20,960
Speaker 3: deal with someone who was not healthy or kind and

105
00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:24,440
Speaker 3: your mom being silent or it may be. You know,

106
00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:27,040
Speaker 3: I had a good relationship with my mom, and then

107
00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:29,840
Speaker 3: my mom sent me to live with my grandmother lived

108
00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:34,560
Speaker 3: with somebody else. So for some people they had something

109
00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:37,720
Speaker 3: and then lost it, or you know, another example was

110
00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:41,440
Speaker 3: people who lost it after their parents didn't approve of them.

111
00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:45,040
Speaker 3: You know, some will say things were good when I

112
00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:49,560
Speaker 3: was younger, but then when I came into myself that

113
00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:52,600
Speaker 3: it can be various reasons. Sometimes, you know, a mother

114
00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:56,320
Speaker 3: out of their insecurity will look at a teenage daughter

115
00:07:56,360 --> 00:08:00,520
Speaker 3: as competition instead of a daughter, and so that shake

116
00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:04,440
Speaker 3: things up. I've had daughters who were rejected once they

117
00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:09,600
Speaker 3: came out. Their parents for their own reasons or religious

118
00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:14,120
Speaker 3: reasons are unaccepting. And so sometimes you had it and

119
00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:17,680
Speaker 3: you lost it. And then they are also those who

120
00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:19,720
Speaker 3: have to grieve the fact that they never had it.

121
00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:24,400
Speaker 3: You know that when they look back over their childhood

122
00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:31,880
Speaker 3: and into adulthood, it just has never been nurturing, kind, accepting, respectful,

123
00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:36,080
Speaker 3: and so needing to It's not just like give up

124
00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:40,160
Speaker 3: the fantasy, but to recognize, like what I never had,

125
00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:45,520
Speaker 3: and so that I don't remain stuck in yesterday. For

126
00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:49,920
Speaker 3: continuing to compare her to other people's mom or the

127
00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:51,440
Speaker 3: picture of who I want her to.

128
00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:55,480
Speaker 4: Be, that was so powerful, Doctor Tama, I have so

129
00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:57,760
Speaker 4: many thoughts running through my mind right now. One is

130
00:08:57,800 --> 00:08:59,520
Speaker 4: where are my tissues? I got to get ready for

131
00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:02,480
Speaker 4: this conversation. Number two is who is telling doctor Tama

132
00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:04,400
Speaker 4: my business? That's what I really want to know. Who's

133
00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:07,000
Speaker 4: telling doctor tain what's going on in my life? And

134
00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:09,320
Speaker 4: number three, I mean you already dove into our first

135
00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:12,840
Speaker 4: question around what are the common unhealthy relationships that you

136
00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:15,720
Speaker 4: see with women and their moms. So I know, for

137
00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:19,040
Speaker 4: me personally, I resonate deeply with the latter, and so

138
00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:21,920
Speaker 4: it wasn't until I went to therapy and my therapist,

139
00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:23,560
Speaker 4: you know, had to point out to me, like, you

140
00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:26,520
Speaker 4: never had this traditional mother daughter relationship and you're trying

141
00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:29,400
Speaker 4: to fit your life and expectations. You're trying to fit

142
00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:31,760
Speaker 4: things into this model that you never had that And

143
00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:34,280
Speaker 4: I was just like, oh, just because you call so

144
00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:36,440
Speaker 4: on mom and they call you daughters like that doesn't

145
00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:39,160
Speaker 4: mean that you have this sort of traditional relationship. And

146
00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:42,160
Speaker 4: so trying to fit something into a place that doesn't fit,

147
00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:44,800
Speaker 4: I think it's key, and that greeting process is key.

148
00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:47,880
Speaker 4: I guess my question for you is what does one

149
00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:52,000
Speaker 4: or where does one receive the maternal nurturing if they

150
00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:56,640
Speaker 4: have a severed relationship. Right if they ended that relationship

151
00:09:56,679 --> 00:09:58,800
Speaker 4: with their mom, or they're just not on the same page,

152
00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:01,000
Speaker 4: where do you get that maternal nurturing from?

153
00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:07,440
Speaker 6: So it is important to grieve and recognize what you

154
00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:12,320
Speaker 6: didn't receive, and to first I would say, really like,

155
00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:16,040
Speaker 6: get in your bones, in your soul that you were

156
00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:19,040
Speaker 6: deserving of it, because sometimes we can.

157
00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:22,160
Speaker 3: Think, even as a little girl, right that something must

158
00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:27,880
Speaker 3: be wrong with me that you know, other girls are adored, appreciated, celebrated,

159
00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:30,920
Speaker 3: you know, taken here and there. People give up their

160
00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:34,640
Speaker 3: whole lives to make their children the center of their lives.

161
00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:36,240
Speaker 3: Right tee.

162
00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:40,280
Speaker 7: Okay, I'm not trying to interrupt the show. What I

163
00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:42,439
Speaker 7: had this random idea I want to share with you,

164
00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:43,760
Speaker 7: and I don't want to forget it.

165
00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:46,880
Speaker 3: Tell me, tell me what is it? Okay?

166
00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:51,839
Speaker 7: So you know how at the start of every new year, birthday,

167
00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:58,240
Speaker 7: new moon, anniversary, new monthnew anything, people find themselves wanting

168
00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:01,360
Speaker 7: to have a reset, but they're not sure where to start.

169
00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:03,520
Speaker 5: I sure do What are you thinking?

170
00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:07,240
Speaker 7: What if we hosted a workshop where we could interact

171
00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:10,840
Speaker 7: with our listeners to talk about stuff like self care

172
00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:12,960
Speaker 7: and self love, oh.

173
00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:16,160
Speaker 4: And g and we could even have a session about manifestation,

174
00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:19,679
Speaker 4: leaving toxic relationships and becoming our best selves.

175
00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:22,240
Speaker 3: Girl, I am so excited. I'm sold.

176
00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:25,520
Speaker 4: We could call it the Vibrate Higher Empowerment Workshop.

177
00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:29,440
Speaker 7: Yes, yes, that is it, and.

178
00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:35,000
Speaker 5: We could even host our live quarterly.

179
00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:38,120
Speaker 7: Line down to check in and build community as we

180
00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:39,560
Speaker 7: vibrate higher all year.

181
00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:40,880
Speaker 5: Yo.

182
00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:42,640
Speaker 3: I love it, I love it.

183
00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:43,280
Speaker 4: I'm sold.

184
00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:43,920
Speaker 3: Let's do it.

185
00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:44,720
Speaker 7: Lady.

186
00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:48,080
Speaker 4: If this sounds like fun to you, visit New Year

187
00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:51,560
Speaker 4: Workshop dot com and join us for the Vibrate Higher

188
00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:55,839
Speaker 4: Empowerment Workshop. If you want to release baggage, set intentions,

189
00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:58,720
Speaker 4: and manifest the life you desire, this is just for you, lady.

190
00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:02,200
Speaker 7: That's new Workshop dot com.

191
00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:10,360
Speaker 3: We can't wait to connect with you. And so never

192
00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:15,240
Speaker 3: getting that and to recognize it's not what we call

193
00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:19,240
Speaker 3: a meritocracy. So a meritocracy is if I do good,

194
00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:21,680
Speaker 3: good things happen to me, and a lot of people

195
00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:25,839
Speaker 3: believe that, which then translates to if I didn't get good,

196
00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:30,880
Speaker 3: it meant I was bad or I was undeserving versus.

197
00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:37,040
Speaker 3: People can have issues that are independent of us, even

198
00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:40,640
Speaker 3: though they are related to us. And that's really hard

199
00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:44,400
Speaker 3: to take in because it feels very personal because you're

200
00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:47,520
Speaker 3: the one not receiving, so like, who else could it

201
00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:50,280
Speaker 3: have to do with but me? Right, So this idea

202
00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:53,520
Speaker 3: if she had some other kind of daughter, you know,

203
00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:57,080
Speaker 3: some other kind of and I will say it especially

204
00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:00,920
Speaker 3: gets heightened if there is more than one sibling and

205
00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:03,439
Speaker 3: some of the siblings are getting it, or one other

206
00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:06,400
Speaker 3: sibling is getting it, then that really hurts because then

207
00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:10,000
Speaker 3: you're like, well, they're capable, right, I can't say they're

208
00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:13,079
Speaker 3: not capable. And some people are getting this love and attention,

209
00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:15,840
Speaker 3: or I see them giving it to their dating partner

210
00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:19,160
Speaker 3: or giving it even to other children. You know, people

211
00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:23,319
Speaker 3: who their parents a school teacher, were volunteers at church,

212
00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:27,800
Speaker 3: and you show them around there they're the most loving, kind, supportive.

213
00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:32,959
Speaker 3: So that hurts even more deeply that it's not she

214
00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:39,120
Speaker 3: is incapable, but she withheld it from me, right, And

215
00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:44,400
Speaker 3: it can be all kinds of reasons why people have

216
00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:48,720
Speaker 3: done that. Sometimes they associate the child with their father,

217
00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:51,679
Speaker 3: and if I had issues with your father and you

218
00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:54,199
Speaker 3: look like your father, or you remind me of that

219
00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:57,760
Speaker 3: season of my life, and there is that pushback. I

220
00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:02,160
Speaker 3: was working with another mom who you know, didn't really

221
00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:07,520
Speaker 3: understand I'm gonna say science of her daughter had been coloquy,

222
00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:11,080
Speaker 3: so you know, so then a baby is crying all

223
00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:14,360
Speaker 3: the time. But the way the mother talks about it

224
00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:17,520
Speaker 3: is this girl has hated me since she was born,

225
00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:22,200
Speaker 3: and she was perpetually punishing me since she was a baby.

226
00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:24,360
Speaker 3: And I'm like, how's a baby punishing you? Because she

227
00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:29,000
Speaker 3: wouldn't stop crying, And it was like, had really created

228
00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:33,120
Speaker 3: this whole idea about a baby, right who that has

229
00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:37,000
Speaker 3: nothing to do? Was she wasn't rejecting you, hating you? Right,

230
00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:43,920
Speaker 3: So it can be multiple reasons why there is that disconnection.

231
00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:47,120
Speaker 3: Another one that comes to mind for me is my

232
00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:50,360
Speaker 3: godmother is doctor Rinita Weams, who is a great woman,

233
00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:53,840
Speaker 3: is theologian looking at the Bible from the perspective of

234
00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:58,400
Speaker 3: black women. And she wrote about, you know what it

235
00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:01,240
Speaker 3: was like for her being raised by a mother who

236
00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:05,360
Speaker 3: was an alcoholic, and she described on Mother's Day how

237
00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:08,160
Speaker 3: there was never a card that fit. You know, it's

238
00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:11,920
Speaker 3: no card to the mom who has always passed out

239
00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:14,280
Speaker 3: on the couch, right to the mom that I have

240
00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:17,480
Speaker 3: to walk into the bed, to the mom who cussed

241
00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:20,000
Speaker 3: me out, you know, whenever she had the chance. So

242
00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:23,520
Speaker 3: it was like all this sugary, flowery language that you know,

243
00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:26,720
Speaker 3: it just feels like erasure, Like does everybody else have

244
00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:28,000
Speaker 3: these mom and these cards?

245
00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:28,360
Speaker 6: Right?

246
00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:31,840
Speaker 3: I didn't get and you know, the secrecy and the

247
00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:35,960
Speaker 3: shame and the covering for people. I remember another client

248
00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:40,360
Speaker 3: who her mother dealt with severe depression and so her

249
00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:43,800
Speaker 3: whole childhood, her only meals were at school, but she

250
00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:45,960
Speaker 3: said she would never tell anybody because she didn't want

251
00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:48,280
Speaker 3: to get her mom in trouble. Right, So you get

252
00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:50,280
Speaker 3: the free lunch at school, and then at some point

253
00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,000
Speaker 3: they added free breakfast and then you come home and

254
00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:59,000
Speaker 3: that's it, right, And so there are so many stories

255
00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:03,320
Speaker 3: that we can just look at as the complexity of

256
00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:09,280
Speaker 3: women's lives, right, and that complexity, and those wounds don't

257
00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:13,120
Speaker 3: automatically get healed when we give birth, and so then

258
00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:16,800
Speaker 3: not only are we living in that reality, but our

259
00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:21,840
Speaker 3: children are having to live with those unhealed wounds. So

260
00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:23,920
Speaker 3: you know, one of the terms for that is called

261
00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:29,160
Speaker 3: intergenerational trauma. And so I am not just healing from

262
00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:33,480
Speaker 3: what I experienced directly, but what was passed down to me,

263
00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:37,440
Speaker 3: because whatever my parents and grandparents went through, it had

264
00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:39,720
Speaker 3: an effect on how they showed up for me or

265
00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,280
Speaker 3: didn't show up for me. It had an effect on

266
00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:44,680
Speaker 3: how they treated me, the way they spoke to me.

267
00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:48,240
Speaker 3: Of those things can get passed down, and so you

268
00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:52,400
Speaker 3: ask the question how people can find that nurturance. And

269
00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:57,760
Speaker 3: I wanted to start from the place of really seeing

270
00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:04,120
Speaker 3: your mother as a complete being, separate from you, because

271
00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:07,399
Speaker 3: when I see her as a woman, as a hurting woman,

272
00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:10,600
Speaker 3: even as an immature woman, or as a woman who

273
00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:13,959
Speaker 3: has never had the luxury of healing or therapy, as

274
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:17,680
Speaker 3: a woman who has fought through her memories with addiction

275
00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:22,160
Speaker 3: or hyper religiosity, right where she can't have a real

276
00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:25,440
Speaker 3: conversation and we always just have to go to you know,

277
00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:28,720
Speaker 3: what the Bible says, so that that is the way

278
00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:33,560
Speaker 3: some people survived. And so as an adult, I can

279
00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:37,920
Speaker 3: look at her as an adult, right, and some things

280
00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:41,879
Speaker 3: will start to make sense outside of me. You know,

281
00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:45,040
Speaker 3: I was blessed with a loving mother, and at the

282
00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:47,520
Speaker 3: same time, you know, I grew up with a mother

283
00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:52,240
Speaker 3: who dealt with depression and anxiety. And so, you know,

284
00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:56,160
Speaker 3: once I understood that as an adult, there are moments

285
00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:59,600
Speaker 3: that make sense, right. There are moments I can look

286
00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:02,720
Speaker 3: back and know, like what what was that? Like, what

287
00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:05,640
Speaker 3: was that whole thing about? Then like, if I take

288
00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:09,760
Speaker 3: myself out of the center and I center her in

289
00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:14,000
Speaker 3: her life's journey, it makes sense. It's not okay, but

290
00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:19,080
Speaker 3: it makes sense. So that is important before we in

291
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:23,960
Speaker 3: some ways start to look for other mothers, because if

292
00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:27,399
Speaker 3: at my core I am still feeling like something is

293
00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:31,920
Speaker 3: wrong with me, no amount of compliments from someone else

294
00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:35,560
Speaker 3: is going to fill that hole, right, And so that's

295
00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:37,880
Speaker 3: when we can be in the place where even when

296
00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:41,800
Speaker 3: people affirm us, we don't believe them, right. We're like, yeah,

297
00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:44,600
Speaker 3: you're just saying that, or you're just nice, right, or

298
00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:46,720
Speaker 3: you're just a therapist. Of course you're gonna say that.

299
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:49,200
Speaker 7: You know.

300
00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:53,000
Speaker 3: It's like it's unbelievable. I can't receive it, right. Or

301
00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:55,399
Speaker 3: another one that comes up is people who think it's

302
00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:59,480
Speaker 3: damn like a manipulation. You know, some people you talk

303
00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:02,840
Speaker 3: kind to them and they're like, what's your game. I'm like,

304
00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:05,760
Speaker 3: I don't have a game. I don't have an agenda here,

305
00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:11,359
Speaker 3: but it can be so unbelievable, right, Or the belief

306
00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:14,800
Speaker 3: that you must not know me well, right, because of

307
00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:16,560
Speaker 3: course we think the person who knows me the most

308
00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:19,719
Speaker 3: is my mother. So if my mother thinks I'm ridiculous,

309
00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:24,359
Speaker 3: there must be truth in that. So maybe I'm tricking you, right,

310
00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,520
Speaker 3: maybe you are complimenting me because I'm tricking you. And

311
00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:32,960
Speaker 3: so we have to like unravel all of that programming

312
00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:38,360
Speaker 3: so that when the mentor the auntie, the other mother,

313
00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:43,680
Speaker 3: the therapist shows up, we can actually receive what is

314
00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:47,200
Speaker 3: being given. Right. And it's not easy, like I'm saying

315
00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:51,560
Speaker 3: it like a simple sentence, but it is a continuous

316
00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:56,600
Speaker 3: having to push back those feelings of unworthiness so that

317
00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:59,960
Speaker 3: I can actually receive. And here it is receive without performing,

318
00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:05,040
Speaker 3: because when you were not valued as a daughter, you

319
00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:09,680
Speaker 3: can get very busy and very perfectionistic and very like

320
00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:13,760
Speaker 3: I have to prove myself and I'm gonna win people's love, right,

321
00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:18,399
Speaker 3: And that can carry over to your relationships everything, And

322
00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:21,919
Speaker 3: you might miss it as a problem because they can

323
00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:24,480
Speaker 3: look like, oh my god, this is like a great

324
00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:26,560
Speaker 3: friend and partner, She'll give up the world for you.

325
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,480
Speaker 3: You just say, like, what's really underneath all of that?

326
00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:33,600
Speaker 3: Why is it? You'll give up yourself for everybody? And

327
00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:38,639
Speaker 3: so it's a healing process and a continuous process. But

328
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:42,600
Speaker 3: there are people who want to provide the care and

329
00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:46,800
Speaker 3: affirmation and who will see you in the fullness of

330
00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:47,439
Speaker 3: who you are.

331
00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:55,200
Speaker 5: Wow. Wow, Wow, that was Okay. There were just as

332
00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:58,399
Speaker 5: you were talking, there were so many moments where I

333
00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:01,720
Speaker 5: was like, Okay, yes, I recognize that some of those

334
00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:06,800
Speaker 5: traits in myself, and I recognize that in friends and

335
00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:11,440
Speaker 5: in other people that I know. And so I think

336
00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:14,360
Speaker 5: about how it's so true for all of us, right

337
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:18,440
Speaker 5: that no matter what the relationship is with our mother,

338
00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:24,840
Speaker 5: that it's important for us to look at our moms

339
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:30,440
Speaker 5: as individual adult beings. But I think that that is

340
00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:37,639
Speaker 5: often the struggle, right of truly pulling yourself out of

341
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:43,760
Speaker 5: the equation and really looking at your mom as an

342
00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:49,639
Speaker 5: individual adult being. And so I want to shift just

343
00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:53,399
Speaker 5: a little bit. So we've talked about this one piece

344
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:59,560
Speaker 5: of the spectrum where there may be unhealthy relationships between

345
00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:04,600
Speaker 5: mother and daughter. I want to shift to another part

346
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:10,920
Speaker 5: of the spectrum where on the outside it appears really beautiful,

347
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:19,200
Speaker 5: but there's an enmeshment happening between mother and daughter. And

348
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:23,159
Speaker 5: so I guess, so my question really is, how do

349
00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:29,480
Speaker 5: we know when there's a healthy balance or healthy mother

350
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:35,600
Speaker 5: daughter relationship versus this this relationship is too enmeshed and

351
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:37,280
Speaker 5: bordering on unhealthy.

352
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:43,200
Speaker 3: The great question and so important, and you know, I

353
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:47,159
Speaker 3: will say just in terms of the term because it's

354
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:50,600
Speaker 3: a technical term that we It brings to my mind

355
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 3: the importance of cultural awareness among therapists because overall, Black families,

356
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:04,719
Speaker 3: Latino famisamilies, Asian families, Native American families in general are

357
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:11,159
Speaker 3: more collectivistic, right, more you know, interconnected, right, And so

358
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 3: sometimes therapists, or those white therapists, or those of us

359
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:18,480
Speaker 3: who have been trained by white therapists, which are the majority,

360
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:26,160
Speaker 3: can be quick to highlight individuality and make and pathologize

361
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:32,040
Speaker 3: us being interconnected. So we want to be mindful that

362
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:36,400
Speaker 3: connection can be a strength and it can be a resource,

363
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:41,480
Speaker 3: but there are ways in which it can become unhealthy.

364
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:45,440
Speaker 3: So I appreciate the question. So one of the indicators

365
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:50,440
Speaker 3: of when it is unhealthy is when it is exclusive,

366
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:54,560
Speaker 3: and that is, you know, with my mother's my best friend,

367
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:56,240
Speaker 3: my daughter's my best friend, and we don't talk to

368
00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:59,320
Speaker 3: nobody else. We're not we don't want no you know,

369
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,199
Speaker 3: people will praise it like I don't want friends outside

370
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 3: of my family, right, So if that is your only friend,

371
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:12,399
Speaker 3: and it's like unacceptable maybe to either of you to

372
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 3: relate to other people. Then it's unhealthy, right, it's unhealthy

373
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:21,640
Speaker 3: if that's if that can be my only another way

374
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:26,720
Speaker 3: when it becomes unhealthy if both people are not able

375
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 3: to be authentic individuals, right that you have to agree

376
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 3: on everything and just by virtue of development. And you know,

377
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 3: some mothers and daughters have a lot alike. You know,

378
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:45,480
Speaker 3: we inspire each other. So it's not, you know, automatically

379
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,119
Speaker 3: a problem. My mom was a writer. She encouraged me

380
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:50,360
Speaker 3: to write. I like to write. I encourage my daughter

381
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:57,639
Speaker 3: to write. Right, But we also personality wise, style wise, music, right,

382
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 3: we have other tastes and interest So is their room

383
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:05,800
Speaker 3: for you to be a unique being? How does the

384
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:09,119
Speaker 3: mother or daughter respond if you have a difference of

385
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:14,560
Speaker 3: opinion and is it safe to emotionally safe to even

386
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:20,199
Speaker 3: express that? Right, So the freedom of being a unique person,

387
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,680
Speaker 3: And then you want to also be careful about is

388
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:29,639
Speaker 3: there this is connected? But is there erasure in the

389
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 3: sense of the relationship is one sided. So you know,

390
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 3: a healthy relationship should be give and take. But if

391
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 3: you're having to give everything and you're not really receiving

392
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:47,119
Speaker 3: anything back or vice versa, they're giving you everything and

393
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 3: you're you're now an adult and not giving anything back.

394
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 3: Then there is a problem. So you want mutuality and

395
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,879
Speaker 3: reciprocity for it to really be healthy.

396
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:02,920
Speaker 4: That is so helpful, doctor Tama, and I would love

397
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 4: to just ask about, you know, advice for processing. You know,

398
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:09,199
Speaker 4: let's say that a woman does not have a very

399
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:11,200
Speaker 4: healthy relationship with her mom, or they don't have a

400
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:15,200
Speaker 4: relationship at all, but she sees so many women around

401
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 4: her with beautiful relationships. I remember you being on our

402
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 4: podcast last time and you talked about I think you

403
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:21,399
Speaker 4: may have said your mother wrote a book, and you

404
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:22,920
Speaker 4: said that was one of your favorite books, and you

405
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:24,399
Speaker 4: just spoke so highly of your mom.

406
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 3: It was so beautiful.

407
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 4: And I remember I actually just spoke to someone today

408
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 4: and she said, do my mom is my hero, She's

409
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 4: my best friend. And I was like, Oh, that's so amazing.

410
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 4: And over the years, for me personally, the feelings have evolved.

411
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 4: So there was a time where around Mother's Day it

412
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:41,119
Speaker 4: was like a little bit of jealousy and envy because

413
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 4: it's like, Oh, everyone else has these amazing relationships with

414
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 4: their mother.

415
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:46,880
Speaker 3: They can count on their mom. You know, she's reliable,

416
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 3: whatever it might be.

417
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 4: And then I feel now that it's more of an

418
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 4: admiration and excitement and a longing for one day for

419
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 4: me to have, you know, a relationship with my child

420
00:26:57,520 --> 00:26:59,879
Speaker 4: and be able to build that. So, how do you

421
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 4: process all of the feelings that come up when you

422
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 4: see other people with their amazing mother daughter relationships and

423
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 4: you don't have that?

424
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 3: Such a great and important question, and the key fundamental

425
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 3: key is self compassion and no judgment. Right, of course

426
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 3: you would want that, you know what it reminds me of.

427
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 3: You know, what I'm just thinking about emotionally is for

428
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 3: women who have fertility challenges, and they'll describe you on

429
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:34,120
Speaker 3: seeing people with their babies and you know, feeling guilty

430
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:37,879
Speaker 3: or feeling bad for the jealousy or the envy or

431
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,639
Speaker 3: the like or the anger of like, why couldn't that

432
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 3: be me? Right? And so we can be so harsh

433
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 3: with ourselves, and so to allow myself to feel what

434
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 3: I feel and to know what I wanted from a

435
00:27:55,119 --> 00:28:00,200
Speaker 3: mother was not so like out of the ordinary or

436
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 3: too much right it It's not that I was too needy,

437
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 3: right that these were just really basics of you know,

438
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 3: wanting to be loved and appreciated, and a parent who

439
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,240
Speaker 3: would make sacrifices for you, who would fight for you,

440
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,879
Speaker 3: you know, advocate for you, who would show up and

441
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 3: celebrate you. Like this is not some terrible list I have, right,

442
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,880
Speaker 3: So when you see it, I think that's a part

443
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 3: of the processing, is wherever I am in the journey

444
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,920
Speaker 3: to be able to release a judgment so that I

445
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 3: can feel the truth. Because what happens is one when

446
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 3: we judge ourselves for our feelings, we multiply the difficulty.

447
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 3: Right now, I'm jealous and guilty, right, so it said,

448
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 3: let me just feel what I feel and give myself

449
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 3: space for that. And also the self awareness is important

450
00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 3: so then I don't have to put that on other people. Right,

451
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 3: if I'm not aware that that's what I'm feeling, I

452
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 3: might start being like harsh with that friend and I

453
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 3: don't know why or right when I'm tuned into like,

454
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 3: oh that's what's going on. So let you know, even

455
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 3: if I have to take a space of like you know,

456
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 3: I'll yeah, I thought I could come with you all

457
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 3: on this Mother's Day brunch, but maybe next week, Right,

458
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 3: I can't do it. So tuning into yourself to tell

459
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 3: yourself the truth to give yourself permission for the grief

460
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 3: or even the anger. And a lot of people demonize

461
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 3: pathologize anger. But I like to say, it's healthy to

462
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 3: be outraged about outrageous things. Some things are outrageous, right,

463
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 3: some things are it's outrageous. So you're telling me, like,

464
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 3: after all these years, like you couldn't say one nice

465
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 3: thing that's outrageous? It is right, So I, you know,

466
00:29:55,840 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 3: free myself to feel the complexity because some people feel

467
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 3: the need to jump over their feelings to forgiveness. And

468
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 3: it's fine for those who are choosing to like forgive

469
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 3: the mom, but I feel for authentic forgiveness, you need

470
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 3: to feel it first. Like if I couldn't even if

471
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 3: I can't even acknowledge that it hurt, then this whole

472
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 3: like you know, I call it premature, ineffective forgiveness. I'm like, yeah,

473
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 3: I'm over it. I'm over it. It's like, are you really,

474
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 3: like did you sit with it at all? Like did

475
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 3: you even acknowledge it? So you know to feel it?

476
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 3: And then for those who are wanting to do forgiveness,

477
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 3: I just make the distinction between one I can forgive

478
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 3: a person who's not sorry, but we can't be reconciled

479
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 3: if they're not sorry.

480
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 6: Right.

481
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 3: So if she's like you know, has no regrets and

482
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 3: can't acknowledge anything she did, then I just say, you know,

483
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 3: I may decide I don't want the upset to be

484
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 3: the center of my life that every time I see

485
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 3: her name and hear her voice that I get worked up.

486
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 3: Like that's why they say forgiveness as a gift to myself.

487
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 3: I want to release that. But in terms of reconciliation,

488
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 3: we're not going to really be buddies when you keep

489
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 3: mistreating me, right, So it's not I release myself from

490
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 3: a mandatory performance, right, And that was one of the

491
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 3: gifts I had to understand. I can't remember if I

492
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 3: said it when I was with you all before. But

493
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 3: sometimes we stay quiet because we say we're keeping the peace,

494
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 3: and so then I raise the question whose peace are

495
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 3: you keeping? And so sometimes we're protecting our mother's piece,

496
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 3: But what while you're falling apart?

497
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 1: Right?

498
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 3: And so speaking truth does not always mean being mean.

499
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 3: It's not mean to speak the truth. It's all about

500
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 3: like what is it I'm speaking? So you know, I'm

501
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 3: not doing the name calling. I'm just staying facts. And

502
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 3: I'm stating the impact of those facts on my life,

503
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 3: and I am fully prepared that you're not going to

504
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 3: see it that way. So you know a lot of

505
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 3: moms will will not remember like I don't remember that story,

506
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 3: like when did that happen? I didn't do that, Or

507
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 3: they will explain it away and justify it by your behavior. Well,

508
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 3: you were a troublesome teenager, so that's why I had

509
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 3: to do what I had to do. Again, like no

510
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 3: repentance about it, no remorse about it. Or you have

511
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 3: those who will give like a throwaway apology and then

512
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 3: want things to be all better, you know, like I said,

513
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 3: I was sorry, so you're gonna keep holding on to that, right.

514
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 3: So you know, there's a different tone that comes when

515
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 3: people are authentically sorry, right, and it's not just like

516
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 3: hurry up and get over it, or you're too sensitive

517
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 3: when I really get the impact of what I have done,

518
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 3: even though it's painful to sit with. Of course we

519
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 3: would all like to like gloss over it. I get

520
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 3: I get that you don't trust me.

521
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 5: I get that.

522
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 3: You know, if I had to, if I had to

523
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 3: do over you know, I would have definitely wanted to

524
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 3: do it. Better and you deserved better, right, and I'm

525
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 3: really sorry about that. It feels different right to get

526
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 3: that than the other responses, and so that's an important

527
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 3: part of the process. And even if you know some

528
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 3: people are like, I'm not trying to forgive. I don't

529
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 3: want to forget, right, that's your choice, But then it

530
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 3: is for your own mental health, not living life looking backward.

531
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 8: Right.

532
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 3: Sometimes we have come to this thought of nothing is

533
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 3: ever going to work out for me because I didn't

534
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 3: get the foundation right. Everybody else had this head start,

535
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 3: this foundation of love and affirmation. I never got that.

536
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 3: So my relationships are going to be messed up. I'm

537
00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 3: going to be messed up, and that becomes the script.

538
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 3: And so what I like to say is I couldn't

539
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 3: stop some people from writing on the pages of my life, right,

540
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 3: So you know who my parents were that wrote some

541
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 3: things on my life. And as an adult, I have

542
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 3: the pen in my hand. Now I have the pen

543
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 3: and I'm going to write the life I want to write.

544
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:23,320
Speaker 5: That was beautiful. I really love that last statement of

545
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:27,359
Speaker 5: I have the pen in my hand and I can

546
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 5: write the life I want to write. When I hear that,

547
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 5: I really just think about Okay, so it's all in

548
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 5: my hands that I don't have to hang on to

549
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 5: a relationship that isn't serving me. I don't have to

550
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 5: continue to try to fully understand, ask for forgive, you know,

551
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 5: as try to forgive, Like, I don't have to do

552
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:08,239
Speaker 5: all of those things if it doesn't feel good for me.

553
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 5: That I can decide that I want to sever that

554
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:21,760
Speaker 5: relationship and it doesn't make me or that person bad.

555
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:29,360
Speaker 5: I am taking control of my own narrative. Ooh, that

556
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:35,280
Speaker 5: is powerful, powerful, And I think that it offers folks

557
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:45,400
Speaker 5: an opportunity to truly reframe and truly empower them to

558
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:51,799
Speaker 5: figure out for themselves, like what really matters to them

559
00:35:53,520 --> 00:36:01,719
Speaker 5: without the constraints of anyone else. And So as I

560
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:07,799
Speaker 5: think about how one is on this journey and they've

561
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:12,440
Speaker 5: made the decision that they are letting go and they

562
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 5: are writing their own narrative moving forward, what are some

563
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:25,840
Speaker 5: tips that you would have for that person in that

564
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 5: writing process.

565
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:34,840
Speaker 3: So, as you are writing your story, I would encourage

566
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 3: you to imagine what you want instead of living life

567
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 3: in rebellion. Right, if my only motivation is I'm not

568
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 3: gonna do that and I'm not gonna be her and

569
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:52,719
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna, not gonna, not gonna. It's like, in

570
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:56,759
Speaker 3: some ways, it keeps them at the center, right, they

571
00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 3: are the center of my of my mind, of my thinking.

572
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,759
Speaker 3: And so to begin to imagine, and it may be

573
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:07,239
Speaker 3: from you know, some of the things you saw other

574
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 3: people doing with their moms. That's something I want to do.

575
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:12,320
Speaker 3: It may be some of the things that you know,

576
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:15,759
Speaker 3: if you look back, what you had wished for. You know,

577
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:17,800
Speaker 3: I wish she would have talked to me about this,

578
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 3: or I wish you know that we could have had

579
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 3: more fun together. I wish she had been honest about this. Right,

580
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 3: So then you recognize what you wanted, but then to

581
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 3: imagine beyond that for a brand new picture, a brand

582
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:41,440
Speaker 3: new possibility. Now, I will say, you want to be

583
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:44,840
Speaker 3: mindful not to overcompensate.

584
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 6: Right.

585
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 3: So that's why sometimes when you grew up with the neglect,

586
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 3: and you may raise children with that enmeshed style, right

587
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 3: because this person was never there, and I'm going to

588
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:01,320
Speaker 3: be the center of my child's everything, and you know,

589
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:05,400
Speaker 3: to the point where it can be strangling, right of

590
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 3: like you know, its just too much, not giving them

591
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:12,280
Speaker 3: any space. And I definitely see that also with trauma

592
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 3: survivors is sometimes you know, they're you know, so fearful

593
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 3: or anxious that they create anxiety for their children. So

594
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 3: you want to try to give some breathing room while

595
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 3: you are engaged and present.

596
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:31,959
Speaker 4: That was such great feedback, Doctor Tayman. I was actually

597
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:35,800
Speaker 4: going to ask you about how we can cultivate healthy

598
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:39,280
Speaker 4: relationships with our children if we didn't see that modeled.

599
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 4: I feel like you kind of answered that. So I

600
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:44,399
Speaker 4: want to dive into a question around, you know, if

601
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 4: there is a woman out there and maybe she's still

602
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 4: dealing with some of the pain and the you know,

603
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 4: herd and heartbreak from the relationship with her mom. Any

604
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 4: best practices on how to initiate that conversation. I'm sure

605
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:58,880
Speaker 4: that has the potential to be a very heated conversation potentially,

606
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:00,840
Speaker 4: So what are some best pacer this is on engaging

607
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:03,879
Speaker 4: in that conversation and expressing your feelings for the things

608
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 4: that happened in the past that you're still sort of

609
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:07,799
Speaker 4: trying to heal and recover from.

610
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:12,480
Speaker 3: So when we want to talk with someone about the past,

611
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 3: you know, which is in some way it's a confrontation,

612
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 3: I would you know, really say first to think about

613
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:26,040
Speaker 3: what do you actually want out of this exchange, you know,

614
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 3: what is it that you're hoping for? And then I

615
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:34,359
Speaker 3: have people role play about the different responses you might get,

616
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 3: because sometimes we have this like fantasy that I'm going

617
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:42,960
Speaker 3: to tell them what they did and they're going to

618
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 3: say sorry and then we can move on, and that

619
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 3: script is a setup for disappointment or frustration and can

620
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 3: end up making you feel worse. So when people are

621
00:39:57,239 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 3: going to do any kind of dialogue about the past confrontation,

622
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:05,880
Speaker 3: it's really important that you get to a place emotionally

623
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 3: where no matter how they respond, I just want to

624
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 3: speak my piece. And if you're not there yet, you

625
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 3: might not be ready for that conversation. It may be

626
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 3: very destructive for you. So if I get to a

627
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 3: place where I'm fully prepared that they might deny it,

628
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 3: they might attack me, they might blame me. You know,

629
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:33,279
Speaker 3: I want to let them know that I remember what

630
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:36,239
Speaker 3: happened and that it wasn't okay, and that it was

631
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 3: hurtful and whatever it is else you want to say.

632
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 3: It is also important to think about what you want

633
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 3: when you're having a conversation like that, because it's going

634
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:49,880
Speaker 3: to affect what you say and how you approach it. Meaning,

635
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:55,880
Speaker 3: if I would like to restore and heal this relationship,

636
00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:00,800
Speaker 3: it requires a different tone than if this is my

637
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 3: waiting to exhale grand exit, where I'm gonna tell you

638
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 3: I'm gonna be unfiltered and tell you everything I never

639
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 3: got to say and I never want to see you again,

640
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:14,880
Speaker 3: as a different kind of conversation. You know, So is

641
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 3: this is this your finale exit and you're not holding back?

642
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:22,520
Speaker 3: Or are you? You know, do you want to repair?

643
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:23,359
Speaker 8: Right?

644
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:28,200
Speaker 3: Do you do you want a relationship? And sometimes when

645
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:32,880
Speaker 3: we're not clear about what we want, we can sabotage it.

646
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:36,279
Speaker 3: So the way you could mess up either way is

647
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 3: if I'm wanting it to heal, but I totally blast

648
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:45,279
Speaker 3: them and dismantle them. Now they're gonna avoid me and

649
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:49,279
Speaker 3: back up and retreat, and then there's no chance. And

650
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:51,960
Speaker 3: then now I'm hurt because I actually wanted a relationship

651
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:54,440
Speaker 3: even though you know, I just cushed you out. So

652
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 3: that's a problem. And then the other problem is if

653
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:02,760
Speaker 3: this really is my exit and I don't say everything

654
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:06,719
Speaker 3: I wanted to say, it's going to feel I may

655
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:09,400
Speaker 3: be mad at myself. Right, It's like I'm never going

656
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 3: to see this person again, never going to speak to

657
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 3: them again. And I didn't say the most important things

658
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:20,080
Speaker 3: I wanted to say, right, So, really reflect on what

659
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:23,040
Speaker 3: you're wanting out of the exchange so that you can

660
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:27,080
Speaker 3: guide that and then you know what you want to

661
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:31,279
Speaker 3: also avoid is name calling. So you want to be

662
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 3: able to describe behaviors and events and how they made

663
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 3: you feel. You want to try to avoid generalizations of

664
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 3: like you always or you never. As soon as people

665
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:47,479
Speaker 3: hear that, they will get defensive and they will start

666
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:50,839
Speaker 3: to recount all the times they did do things for you, right.

667
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:53,239
Speaker 3: So then it's like, how can you say that when

668
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:55,400
Speaker 3: I'm the one that blah blah blah and I'm the

669
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:58,719
Speaker 3: one blah and you don't remember that I blah blah blah, right,

670
00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 3: So then are going to miss the point because I

671
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 3: because I use the always right. So, you know, you

672
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,960
Speaker 3: want to try to be as accurate as possible, and

673
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:14,320
Speaker 3: you know what you are communicating and stressing, you know

674
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:17,160
Speaker 3: how it made you feel. And you may even start

675
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 3: with I don't know what all was going on with you,

676
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:22,480
Speaker 3: or maybe I know a part of what was going

677
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 3: on with you, but I wanted to share some feelings

678
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 3: I have about what happened when I was younger, and

679
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:34,880
Speaker 3: I wonder if you would be willing to hear it

680
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 3: as important. If you start like that, it's less likely

681
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 3: for people to run out the room, It's like, because

682
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 3: they're giving you their consent, right. So it's like if

683
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:48,759
Speaker 3: I start with, you know, I've been thinking a lot

684
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:52,319
Speaker 3: about the past, and I wondered if I could share

685
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:55,560
Speaker 3: with you, you know, what I remember and you know

686
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:58,319
Speaker 3: kind of how I feel about it, because we haven't

687
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:02,080
Speaker 3: really had that conversation you you know, are you willing

688
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:06,280
Speaker 3: to hear that from me? And the benefit of phrasing

689
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 3: it like a question is if they started, they're more

690
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:12,040
Speaker 3: likely to stick it out because they have agreed to it.

691
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 3: The other possibility, you know, I guess the con of

692
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:17,440
Speaker 3: it is they might say I don't want to deal

693
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:20,400
Speaker 3: with the past, right, So then you'll have a decision

694
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:22,440
Speaker 3: point if you honor that because you know it's not

695
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 3: going to be fruitful anyway, or you say, well, I

696
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 3: want to talk about the past, so I'm going to

697
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 3: say what I want to say anyway, and then you know,

698
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:34,800
Speaker 3: having your statement of like what were the specific things,

699
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:38,879
Speaker 3: how they made you feel? And you know, and if

700
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:43,360
Speaker 3: there's something you want, right, so you know if I

701
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:45,239
Speaker 3: want because some people may say, well, it's nothing we

702
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:47,880
Speaker 3: can do about that now that was years ago. So

703
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 3: if I want, do I want them to acknowledge like

704
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:54,319
Speaker 3: what I said is true? Do I want an apology?

705
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:57,120
Speaker 3: Do I want a change of behavior because it may

706
00:44:57,160 --> 00:45:00,279
Speaker 3: be something that they continue to do till this day, right,

707
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:04,600
Speaker 3: And so this is you know what I am wanting

708
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:07,759
Speaker 3: or needing from you, And I wonder if you're willing

709
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 3: to do it. You know that it you know it

710
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:15,360
Speaker 3: hurts me when you cuss at me, and you you know,

711
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:17,760
Speaker 3: my whole life. You have said I'm just too sensitive,

712
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:20,840
Speaker 3: But I think at this point like my sensitivity is

713
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 3: not going to change. I just don't like it. So

714
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:26,359
Speaker 3: are you willing to stop doing that? Right? And then

715
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 3: if they say no, so well then you have to

716
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:31,359
Speaker 3: make a decision. Yeah I want to be cussed out

717
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:34,680
Speaker 3: or not. But so I would say, thinking of what

718
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:38,000
Speaker 3: you want, if you can role play and practice, even

719
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:41,840
Speaker 3: in your mind, the different ways they might respond, sharing

720
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 3: what the actions or events were that were hurtful without

721
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:49,879
Speaker 3: overgeneralizing how they made you feel and what you would

722
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:53,759
Speaker 3: like and then I would say also being prepared. If

723
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 3: I'm trying to I'm trying to restore the relationship, they

724
00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 3: might have some complaints about me. So you know, often

725
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 3: we'll get upset and say I didn't call this meeting

726
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:06,279
Speaker 3: for that, right This meeting is for me to say

727
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 3: my issues, but to know it's possible that they might

728
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:12,799
Speaker 3: say their piece, and so you know, if you can

729
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 3: hear them out, you can. If you don't want to

730
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:17,319
Speaker 3: hear it, that's your choice as well.

731
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:21,840
Speaker 4: Amazing communication gems right there. I mean, lady, if you're listening,

732
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:24,920
Speaker 4: you can literally pick up exactly what doctor Tamber just

733
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,840
Speaker 4: shared and use it in your life. That is so incredible.

734
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:31,279
Speaker 4: I know we're getting close to time, doctor Tainman, and lady,

735
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:33,279
Speaker 4: hopefully you're not too upset with Dom and I. We're

736
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:36,320
Speaker 4: actually going to sort of shift from the oh you

737
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:39,919
Speaker 4: clatch it for this segment because doctor Tama already told

738
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 4: us if she's going to work or two steps. She

739
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:44,480
Speaker 4: already told us the gems on our last episode. Okay,

740
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 4: so you got to check that out to hear what

741
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:48,279
Speaker 4: doctor Tama has shared, all right, and so just to

742
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:50,800
Speaker 4: kind of give you a little reminder, that was season

743
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:55,279
Speaker 4: three episode twelve healing intergenerational trauma. So what we want

744
00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 4: to ask you in the meantime, Doctor Taman spend the

745
00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:00,799
Speaker 4: rest of our time talking about is two different things. One,

746
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:02,759
Speaker 4: if you could give us some insight on what you've

747
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:05,200
Speaker 4: been doing for fun and self care in the midst

748
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:08,800
Speaker 4: of this pandemic. And then number two, tell us some

749
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:11,719
Speaker 4: of the questions that you wish people would ask you more,

750
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 4: because you seem to be a thinker and you have

751
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 4: these amazing quotes every day. So I'm like, oh, we

752
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:19,239
Speaker 4: know she has some amazing questions in her mind that

753
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 4: she wishes people would ask, so feel free to share it.

754
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:27,800
Speaker 3: Oh right, So in the midst of the pandemic, things

755
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 3: that I have been doing for fun. One of them

756
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:33,759
Speaker 3: is dancing. So you asked about dancing last time. I

757
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 3: love to dance. I discovered and I'll pass them on

758
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:40,879
Speaker 3: to you. On YouTube. There is this mother daughter team

759
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:45,840
Speaker 3: that does African dance aerobics called Kulkol Why Yes, And

760
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:51,840
Speaker 3: they're on Instagram Hey uku Wa, and it is amazing.

761
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 3: It's the two of them and one of their like

762
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:57,560
Speaker 3: good friends or teachers, and they have really short ones.

763
00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:00,120
Speaker 3: If you want to do like fifteen minutes then they

764
00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:04,360
Speaker 3: have the full forty minutes. It's inspirational, it's high energy,

765
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:07,840
Speaker 3: and you know, it really feels like a community. So

766
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:10,920
Speaker 3: dancing is a good one. Another thing that has been

767
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:14,520
Speaker 3: helpful for me is getting out and walking because I'm

768
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:17,880
Speaker 3: in this like virtual background right now, but I'm actually

769
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:21,480
Speaker 3: in my room and I end up a lot of

770
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 3: time sitting in this chair because I see clients. And

771
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:29,200
Speaker 3: then I teach for Pepperdine and all our classes are online,

772
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 3: and so every day I try to go outside, put

773
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 3: my mask on and just walk, you know, walking getting

774
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:39,000
Speaker 3: some fresh air. You know, you see people as you're

775
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:44,520
Speaker 3: passing them by, and it's just reconnecting outside of this space,

776
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:47,799
Speaker 3: but doing that safely. And then I have a great

777
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:51,719
Speaker 3: group of sisters that we call the Gathering and we

778
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:54,440
Speaker 3: used to meet at my house once a month and

779
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:58,160
Speaker 3: we have switched to Zoom and you know, it's one

780
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:02,040
Speaker 3: of those where iron sharpens iron. So it's a sister

781
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:06,399
Speaker 3: collective where you know, all these women are amazing women

782
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:09,600
Speaker 3: and when we get in that space though we can

783
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:15,480
Speaker 3: be unfiltered, we can just really share. And also each

784
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:19,360
Speaker 3: of us shares like a point of inspiration, So like

785
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:23,799
Speaker 3: nobody is like just giving and then like we all

786
00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:28,120
Speaker 3: leave feeling full, right. So I love my sister circle.

787
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:31,840
Speaker 3: And we have first paused when COVID started because we

788
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 3: were like, oh, everything shut down, And then of course

789
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:35,960
Speaker 3: it occurred to us, we're doing everything else online. We

790
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 3: could meet online. So I love that all right. So

791
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:43,800
Speaker 3: then you said a question I wish people would ask me.

792
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 3: I think I'll say, I get a lot of questions, IK,

793
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:57,359
Speaker 3: A lot of questions, maybe about my journey in psychology

794
00:49:57,480 --> 00:50:01,840
Speaker 3: or like my journey to how I got here, because

795
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:04,760
Speaker 3: I think maybe a lot of my times I'm answering

796
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:09,719
Speaker 3: fact questions like psychological like what is tell us about depression,

797
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:12,800
Speaker 3: tell us about PTSD, And I do that most of

798
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:14,960
Speaker 3: the time, you know, because I said, I'm a professor,

799
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:19,560
Speaker 3: and so I enjoyed you all questions about the interpersonal,

800
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:23,680
Speaker 3: about relationship within the family and how we heal that.

801
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:28,560
Speaker 3: So yeah, maybe about how I got here.

802
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:32,400
Speaker 5: I am with you doctor Tama on Cuckoo with fitness.

803
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:35,240
Speaker 3: I love those ladies.

804
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:37,600
Speaker 5: That is so much high energy.

805
00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:38,920
Speaker 3: I love it.

806
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:45,520
Speaker 5: So since people don't normally ask, I think we're gonna ask,

807
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:50,360
Speaker 5: and you know, tell us what has been your journey

808
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:52,839
Speaker 5: in psychology. I think for me personally, like I love

809
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:58,440
Speaker 5: hearing that from other Black psychologists because I think our

810
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:04,239
Speaker 5: journey is one that is can be different in a

811
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 5: lot of ways. But then I also like it's I'm yeah,

812
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:10,839
Speaker 5: I'm just I'm gonna let you speak.

813
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:15,840
Speaker 3: I'm curious to hear your journey. Yes, So for me,

814
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:19,680
Speaker 3: you know, I was a pastor's daughter, and so growing

815
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:23,760
Speaker 3: up in the Black church, people call their pastor for counseling,

816
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:27,080
Speaker 3: and so that was you know, calling our home at

817
00:51:27,120 --> 00:51:30,560
Speaker 3: all times of day or night, and you know, and

818
00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:34,880
Speaker 3: people were often calling in crisis, and sometimes my parents

819
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:38,160
Speaker 3: weren't there. And even though my brother was two years older,

820
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:40,000
Speaker 3: he would often hand me the phone. If he answered

821
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:41,880
Speaker 3: and somebody was crying, he would hand me the phone.

822
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:45,200
Speaker 3: So I always, you know, like to say, I think

823
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:48,080
Speaker 3: healers are not only taught and trained, but also born.

824
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:51,400
Speaker 3: And you know, some people just have a heart for

825
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:55,840
Speaker 3: being with people. And you know, I think a part

826
00:51:55,920 --> 00:52:00,239
Speaker 3: of my heart for dealing with people is they is

827
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:05,319
Speaker 3: not having always been easy. And so you know, because

828
00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:08,640
Speaker 3: some people will see like the title or the success

829
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:13,160
Speaker 3: and then wonder like how can you relate? And it's

830
00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:17,520
Speaker 3: like I can relate because I know, you know personally,

831
00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:19,759
Speaker 3: not just what I read in the book, right, but

832
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:25,239
Speaker 3: I know personally what it is to experience despair or

833
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:28,960
Speaker 3: insecurity or fear self doubt.

834
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 8: Right.

835
00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:32,600
Speaker 3: And so that's why I say, you know, with the

836
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:39,000
Speaker 3: Homecoming podcast facilitating the journey home to ourselves, that it's

837
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:41,160
Speaker 3: a journey I've had to take myself. And it's a

838
00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:42,000
Speaker 3: continuous journey.

839
00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:42,200
Speaker 5: Right.

840
00:52:42,239 --> 00:52:44,880
Speaker 3: We don't just say like, oh, I've arrived, right, It

841
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:49,239
Speaker 3: is a continuous process for me coming home to me.

842
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:53,839
Speaker 3: And I think, you know, as I get older, being

843
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:59,000
Speaker 3: freer and freer about sharing that right. And of course

844
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:03,239
Speaker 3: in a lifetime there any different experiences, but you know,

845
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:06,080
Speaker 3: one of them is just that as a teenager, we

846
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:10,480
Speaker 3: moved to Liberia, West Africa. So that was like, you know,

847
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:16,600
Speaker 3: this huge life altering experience, both in the positive to

848
00:53:16,719 --> 00:53:19,520
Speaker 3: go somewhere where suddenly like everyone in a position of

849
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:22,799
Speaker 3: power look like me. That's going to definitely boost your

850
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:25,960
Speaker 3: self esteem. That's why you know, often when we you know,

851
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:28,799
Speaker 3: talk to our sisters and brothers who you know are

852
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:32,920
Speaker 3: immigrants from Africa the Caribbean, you know, sometimes there can

853
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:36,760
Speaker 3: be a confidence for coming of age in a place

854
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:41,359
Speaker 3: where you saw people thriving who look like you right

855
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:44,960
Speaker 3: in every position. And then the challenge of that was

856
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:48,000
Speaker 3: after two years we ended up being evacuated because of

857
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:51,719
Speaker 3: the Civil War. And so that is a big part

858
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 3: of my interest in trauma. And so because people often say, like,

859
00:53:55,239 --> 00:53:58,120
Speaker 3: why would you focus on trauma recovery where there's so

860
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:01,640
Speaker 3: much trauma in our community and so you know, yes,

861
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:04,719
Speaker 3: I'm there for people who you know are having like

862
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:07,960
Speaker 3: workplace stress and those kinds of things. But there are

863
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:12,400
Speaker 3: also those of us who have come undone right that

864
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:16,400
Speaker 3: some life events have happened that dismantled us. And I

865
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:18,640
Speaker 3: think it's important to be able to show up for

866
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:22,800
Speaker 3: people as we rebuild and restore. So that's why I

867
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:23,400
Speaker 3: do what I do.

868
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:27,239
Speaker 4: That is so beautiful, doctor Tamer. We appreciate you. What

869
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:30,719
Speaker 4: an experience like The experiences you've had are just incredible.

870
00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:33,120
Speaker 4: We appreciate you, doctor Tamer. We want to thank you

871
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:35,480
Speaker 4: so much for your time and if you want to

872
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:38,600
Speaker 4: share where our listeners can connect with you and learn

873
00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:42,040
Speaker 4: more about your podcast, your books, where you are online,

874
00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:44,560
Speaker 4: all that good stuff, we'd love to share the love

875
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:45,640
Speaker 4: and the knowledge.

876
00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:47,919
Speaker 3: Oh, thank you so much.

877
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:48,560
Speaker 5: For having me.

878
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:51,959
Speaker 3: This has been as delightful as it was the first time,

879
00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:54,640
Speaker 3: so thank you for having me back. You all can

880
00:54:54,719 --> 00:54:58,920
Speaker 3: follow me on Instagram at d R period Tama and

881
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:04,520
Speaker 3: that's th On Twitter, it's doctor Tama without the period

882
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:08,160
Speaker 3: in the middle. My website is doctor Tama dot com

883
00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:14,759
Speaker 3: and my podcast Homecoming is on YouTube, iTunes, Spotify, and SoundCloud.

884
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:17,960
Speaker 3: And I would love for you to come and listen.

885
00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:22,640
Speaker 8: Hey lady, it's doctor Dom here from the Herspace podcast.

886
00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:25,279
Speaker 8: Do you have a burning question you're dying to get

887
00:55:25,320 --> 00:55:28,960
Speaker 8: feedback on? Do you want an unbiased perspective on a

888
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:34,440
Speaker 8: situation you're facing. If so, visit herspacepodcast dot com and

889
00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:39,280
Speaker 8: click ask doctor Dom under the start here option. Every Tuesday,

890
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:41,920
Speaker 8: I'll choose a few questions and answer them at random.

891
00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:46,879
Speaker 8: Thanks for joining us today in her Space. Please note

892
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:51,400
Speaker 8: that our show may contain conversations about self help, advice,

893
00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:55,200
Speaker 8: self empowerment, and mental health, but it is by no

894
00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:59,520
Speaker 8: means meant to be a substitute for an ongoing formal relationship.

895
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:03,960
Speaker 8: They trained mental health provider. If you are someone you

896
00:56:04,120 --> 00:56:07,640
Speaker 8: know is in need of mental health care, please visit

897
00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:12,360
Speaker 8: the Therapy for Black Girls directory psychology today or contact

898
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:13,480
Speaker 8: your insurance provider.

899
00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:15,759
Speaker 4: If you liked what you heard and want to keep

900
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:19,120
Speaker 4: the conversation going, connect with us on Facebook, Instagram, and

901
00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:24,120
Speaker 4: Twitter at her space podcast or check out our website

902
00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:28,400
Speaker 4: at herspacepodcast dot com. And before we meet again, repeat

903
00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:32,239
Speaker 4: after me. Although my plans may change, I will stay

904
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:33,720
Speaker 4: committed to my purpose.

905
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:36,160
Speaker 3: We'll see you next week, Lady