Speaker 1: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When
Speaker 1: I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.
Speaker 1: And when I find my ball.
Speaker 2: In a brid egg Friday egg, the dreaded Friday Friday,
Speaker 2: Frida fridagg bride egg Lie, I'm about ready to run
Speaker 2: off of.
Speaker 1: The Welcome back to another edition of the Friday Golf Podcast.
Speaker 1: I am your host, Andy Johnson, and I am joined
Speaker 1: by fellow co hosts Garrett Morrison and Joseph Lavania. This
Speaker 1: is gonna be a fun episode. We're uh, you know,
Speaker 1: we're in the election spirit here. We did a podcast
Speaker 1: about a serious podcast about what the election might mean
Speaker 1: for pro golf last week. This week, we're gonna do
Speaker 1: a little bit more uh silly front end here. We're
Speaker 1: gonna be each running for president of Golf, and we're
Speaker 1: gonna we've got five campaign topics that we're going to
Speaker 1: talk about. Garrett, uh, Joseph and myself. I guess we're
Speaker 1: gonna we could come up with our party titles. We
Speaker 1: can see who's been influenced by big equipment, you know,
Speaker 1: based off their campaign uh campaign uh uh preferences and
Speaker 1: and and sides they choose here. But we're gonna run
Speaker 1: for for President of Golf. You guys can be the
Speaker 1: judge of who wins this debate, and we've come up
Speaker 1: with a couple of topics and then we will kick
Speaker 1: it over to an interview I did with Rue McDonald,
Speaker 1: who is with the DP World Tour, used to host
Speaker 1: a a a podcast about Scottish Scottish golf, who came
Speaker 1: on to talk about the critical juncture in the Cool
Speaker 1: Links story, which is a potential golf development just north
Speaker 1: of Royal Dorniic in Scotland, which has some important moments
Speaker 1: in its potential development coming up. So we will kick
Speaker 1: it over to that on the back end of this episode.
Speaker 1: But welcome on Joseph and Garrett. I am. I'm extremely
Speaker 1: excited to share this debate platform with you guys.
Speaker 2: Well, my question is if we become president, will there
Speaker 2: be any checks and balances on us? No, no checks
Speaker 2: and balances. So we're really running for king King of Golf, Yes,
Speaker 2: King of golf. No no democratic system here.
Speaker 1: Well, it all depends on who you get in bed with.
Speaker 1: If you get in bed with, you know, with big
Speaker 1: equipment or big agronomy, we'll see, we'll see, you know,
Speaker 1: here are the things things are. You could be elected,
Speaker 1: like you could run on something. You could be truly
Speaker 1: political and waiver in the wind and uh you know
Speaker 1: and know that you'll gardner votes if you say let's
Speaker 1: let drivers go five hundred yards.
Speaker 2: You know, well, I could just say a bunch of
Speaker 2: completely unrealistic stuff, get elected, and then just sell out
Speaker 2: to the highest bidder immediately. Yes, yes, has never happened
Speaker 2: in the United States. By the way, this is this
Speaker 2: is completely imaginary here. Nothing of the sort would happen
Speaker 2: in our country.
Speaker 1: No, nothing, nothing is the all all in all this
Speaker 1: could be you know, it could be a week where
Speaker 1: you know, people are are stressed out about the election.
Speaker 1: This is supposed to be all in fun and good
Speaker 1: fun in spirits. So we have we have five topics.
Speaker 1: We have men's pro golf, women's pro golf. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: throw a curveball and throw an amateur golf here. Oh,
Speaker 1: because I'm gonna add one, because it doesn't seem right
Speaker 1: to just a drive the pro golf game, amateur golf.
Speaker 1: Grow the Game initiative. You have We have tasked everybody
Speaker 1: to come up with one Grow the Game initiative. Equipment
Speaker 1: and uh, golf course industry. Those are the big topics.
Speaker 1: We'll we'll debate and propose our our thoughts on each topic,
Speaker 1: and then uh, maybe we'll have PJ to clare winter end.
Speaker 2: PJ is the one voter, The one voter really has
Speaker 2: all the power here.
Speaker 1: All right.
Speaker 2: By the way, PJ. Unlike on the Shotgun Start podcast,
Speaker 2: PJ is into silent booth right now in our recording system,
Speaker 2: so he can't say anything, but he gets to vote.
Speaker 1: He's in full producer mode, which does not give him
Speaker 1: any speaking privileges. Before we get to talking about our
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Speaker 1: code is fried egg one word. Thanks. Let's get to
Speaker 1: our presidential campaigns here. All right, so let's kick it off.
Speaker 1: Let's kick it off with the the first topic. We'll
Speaker 1: start with men's professional golf. Jessep Leamanya, you are up first.
Speaker 3: The way we're talking about this, I kind of wish
Speaker 3: I may have may have taken this exercise too seriously
Speaker 3: and probably should have pandered a lot more.
Speaker 1: There's time time to switch. I I have nothing written down.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm speaking third on every topic.
Speaker 2: We know how voting is done, we know who to
Speaker 2: pand or to.
Speaker 3: The ARBs have changed champions tour every verses on Long Island.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. No, my New York platform, that's.
Speaker 2: Save the New York Jets. Yeah, make the Yankees trade
Speaker 2: Wan soda to the Mets.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna have to change some things on the fly
Speaker 3: here my men's professional golf platform. Jay Monahan's getting fired.
Speaker 3: But that's not the main thing I'm sticking to completely.
Speaker 3: We're doing away with TiO relief. No TiO relief in
Speaker 3: any if it rubs up against the concession stand. If
Speaker 3: your ball goes up a concession stand, you can have
Speaker 3: a one shot penalty, but otherwise it is on course setup.
Speaker 3: There's no more cio relief, No more cart path relief.
Speaker 3: Players are gonna have an absolute uprising. But PJ is
Speaker 3: gonna love it, which is the most important contingency here.
Speaker 3: And there's the only one sport right now that is
Speaker 3: actively compromising the field or the court. You don't have
Speaker 3: cameras getting in the way on an NBA court interrupting shots.
Speaker 3: We're doing away with TiO relief completely. Let's restore some
Speaker 3: consequence back to professional golf.
Speaker 2: I like that one. You know I shouldn't say that
Speaker 2: because I'm running against you.
Speaker 1: You could take on playables, you could like you. If
Speaker 1: you don't like what you the only your only options
Speaker 1: to take it unplayable. And one of the options of unplayable,
Speaker 1: which rarely gets used, is replaying your last shot. Actually
Speaker 1: it's the.
Speaker 3: Player player round organization, the PGA Tour. If they don't
Speaker 3: like it, then talk to the PJ Tour setup crew
Speaker 3: and move the infrastructure around.
Speaker 2: But no more t I Yeah, lots of potential Tin
Speaker 2: Cup situations.
Speaker 1: There if we get if we if somebody reunites the
Speaker 1: game and you get Patrick Reid there, he could start
Speaker 1: to say that all the all the t I, all
Speaker 1: the obstructions are on the left side of the golf course.
Speaker 1: People are people? Are they? The players have banded together
Speaker 1: against me every obstructions on the left side of the
Speaker 1: golf course.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Patrick Reid does not like things on the left
Speaker 2: all right. My proposal for my platform with regard to
Speaker 2: men's pro golf is to a the FedEx Cup playoffs.
Speaker 2: Get rid of him. We are destroying the FedEx Cup
Speaker 2: playoffs and we're not looking back. We're going to focus
Speaker 2: on establishing strong, distinct tournament brands. Make the Tour Championship
Speaker 2: what it should be, one of the three best non
Speaker 2: majors on the PGA Tour schedule. You can keep it
Speaker 2: at Eastlake. Eastlake's fine, seems like it has a lot
Speaker 2: of support there. But make it the Tour Championship, not
Speaker 2: this weird, staggered star thing that we have right now
Speaker 2: and then. And this is really appealing to Andy rather
Speaker 2: than PJ, so I should probably change this. But bring
Speaker 2: back the Western Open. Make it a rotation between Olympia Fields,
Speaker 2: Harding Park, Chambers Bay, Cherry Hills maybe or Castle Pines
Speaker 2: would probably be the most likely candidate in Denver, but Chicago,
Speaker 2: San Francisco, Seattle, Denver or three great cities that are
Speaker 2: underserved by PGA Tour golf. Right now, that is the
Speaker 2: good MW Western Open. You can keep the sponsor. You know,
Speaker 2: you could have some nice BMW ads with with golfers
Speaker 2: driving across the desert or the great planes or whatever
Speaker 2: to get wherever they're going. It seems like an obvious
Speaker 2: sort of partnership between a brand and a concept for
Speaker 2: a tournament. That's my proposal. Focus on creating great tournaments
Speaker 2: on the PGA Tour schedule. Abandon these notions that you're
Speaker 2: ever going to generate an enthusiasm about a season long
Speaker 2: race on the PGA too. I just don't think it's
Speaker 2: gonna happen. This is not f one. So make those
Speaker 2: tournaments great. What's valuable in golf is an awesome tournament,
Speaker 2: like the Masters or the US Open or the Open.
Speaker 2: That's what we should be focusing on.
Speaker 1: I like the idea of incentivizing each individual tournament to
Speaker 1: be great on itself, Like the idea of oh, nobody's
Speaker 1: coming to our event. Well, maybe your event sucks, that's
Speaker 1: why nobody's coming.
Speaker 2: It's not like that came from nowhere, because it's an
Speaker 2: awesome tournament at an awesome course.
Speaker 1: So it's like, oh, players aren't coming. That's not the
Speaker 1: PGA Tour's fault, that's your fault. If you put the
Speaker 1: onus back on that, like you would get fresh ideas,
Speaker 1: you would get events doing creative stuff to to entice
Speaker 1: players to come, you might get new formats, you might
Speaker 1: you know, like there's a way, but you know the
Speaker 1: way the PGA Tour is going. What I like about
Speaker 1: this both both of the discussed options seem to be
Speaker 1: the opposite of the way that the tour is running.
Speaker 1: You know, they're trying to get every tournament run by
Speaker 1: championship management, which is basically the death to any soul
Speaker 1: of an event. If you want to if you want
Speaker 1: to kill the soul of an event, turn it over
Speaker 1: to championship management. Is abolished champions So one thought. One thought,
Speaker 1: I was, I was there was. There's a large contingent
Speaker 1: of people, a big collect cohort of of of funding
Speaker 1: sources that was trying to say it was trying to
Speaker 1: convince me to just say just end ment pro golf,
Speaker 1: just end it. But I I said, artists, I said
Speaker 1: no to that money. Instead, I am I'm going to
Speaker 1: run on the platform of everybody's saying, make pro golf smaller,
Speaker 1: make it a you know, like, make the the top
Speaker 1: end of the tour really small. I'm gonna say, just
Speaker 1: make it really big. Have a thousand have a thousand
Speaker 1: person tour. Just put the the European Tour, the PG
Speaker 1: eight Tour, Live Golf, Cornfieur, the Challenge Tour, and PGA
Speaker 1: Tour Americas all it. Call it the same tour, but
Speaker 1: have different levels and exempt statuses that you cycle up
Speaker 1: and down. You play for the same points, and it's
Speaker 1: one giant tour that feeds up and down constantly. There's
Speaker 1: no relegation event. There's relegation events. Every single week. You're
Speaker 1: either up, you're either down. If you fall out of
Speaker 1: the top fifty, you're out. You know, Oh we're playing
Speaker 1: a tournament in November. If I'm forty fifth, I don't
Speaker 1: get an off season. I gotta go play. I gotta
Speaker 1: go grind to keep my status up high. And I think, like, actually,
Speaker 1: like everybody's like, Ben, this was just a thought this morning.
Speaker 1: Everybody's been talking about making pro golf smaller. And when
Speaker 1: you think about the idea of pro golf like and
Speaker 1: you think about it, it makes sense off the off,
Speaker 1: the b off the bat. Yeah, we need a smaller tour.
Speaker 1: But in reality, most things in golf are completely the
Speaker 1: opposite of what you think. You know, if you're if
Speaker 1: you're hitting the ball right, you know, if you're hitting
Speaker 1: a slice, you swing right. You don't swing left like
Speaker 1: naturally you think, oh I need a swing left. You know,
Speaker 1: everything in golf is actually the opposite of what you
Speaker 1: your natural instinct is to think. So my my platform
Speaker 1: is going to be make a giant tour and have
Speaker 1: just playing up and playing down all the time.
Speaker 2: Would that be the theme of your administration? Just do
Speaker 2: the opposite of whether whatever the common sense approach would be.
Speaker 1: I think there is like with golf, there is a
Speaker 1: strong if you did the opposite of what the general
Speaker 1: public thinks you should do with golf, you would generally
Speaker 1: be on the right side of history.
Speaker 3: Andy, have you run this idea of one giant tour
Speaker 3: by the Department of Justice?
Speaker 4: I have not.
Speaker 2: I have not well which department of Justice?
Speaker 1: True? True? If I'm if I'm the king, I don't
Speaker 1: have to worry about this, right apartment.
Speaker 2: You're you're dismantling the Department of Justice. You're you're staffing
Speaker 2: it with uh with cronies. Yeah yeah, yeah, all right,
Speaker 2: Andy's Project twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1: Let's move on. I'm an I'm gonna pause on the
Speaker 1: whitmen's golf. I'm gonna throw a wrench. I'm a I'm
Speaker 1: a misdirect going different order, Garrett, what's your grow the
Speaker 1: Game initiative?
Speaker 2: My Grow the Game initiative is to establish a registry
Speaker 2: of public courses that are historically and or architecturally important
Speaker 2: and create grants for restoration projects at these courses. Do
Speaker 2: I know where the money's coming from. No, But since
Speaker 2: I'm the king, I can just kind of appropriate a
Speaker 2: certain portion of the of the tax funds that come
Speaker 2: in and and that'll that'll be that.
Speaker 1: But you could tax pro golfers, That's right.
Speaker 2: They love being taxed. So create these grants for restoration projects.
Speaker 2: Maybe establish a panel or something like that of independent
Speaker 2: history and architecture experts who could determine which courses qualify
Speaker 2: for these grants, but provide these courses some money to
Speaker 2: do legitimate restoration work. And I believe that that would
Speaker 2: help grow the game. I don't know it would make
Speaker 2: the game better. I don't really like growing the idea
Speaker 2: of growing the game, because usually when people say that,
Speaker 2: they just mean I want more money from the game.
Speaker 2: But I believe this would be good for the game
Speaker 2: in the sense that one thing we need right now
Speaker 2: is a greater supply of golf courses. And one place
Speaker 2: where we can find that is struggling historic courses in
Speaker 2: urban centers. Right now, those courses are closing down rather
Speaker 2: than you know, getting to the next level because it's
Speaker 2: so hard to make the finances work. But the demand
Speaker 2: is there right now for golf. We need, if anything,
Speaker 2: more golf courses. Right now, we are under supplied with
Speaker 2: public golf courses. The public golf courses that we have,
Speaker 2: especially in urban areas, are booked up to the gills.
Speaker 2: People can't find tea times, and so we need to
Speaker 2: preserve the great golf courses that we have in city centers,
Speaker 2: historic golf courses that have been there for a long
Speaker 2: time but just need a little bit of TLC. And
Speaker 2: that's what this registry and grant system would do.
Speaker 1: It's almost like farmer subsidies.
Speaker 2: Yeah right, yeah, grow some corn, you know, grow some
Speaker 2: good architecture.
Speaker 1: We know, we know it's not you could make more money,
Speaker 1: growing something else but gross corn.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. We need corn, We need architecture.
Speaker 1: We know you could sell your golf course to private equity,
Speaker 1: turn it pop private.
Speaker 2: Or turn it into a mixed use residential development. Not
Speaker 2: to make this too serious right now, but I just
Speaker 2: heard recently that a great old course in the Philadelphia area.
Speaker 2: I believe JC Melrose you know about this place.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Maxwell, the Maxwell Course, it's closing down. I saw
Speaker 1: that it's done.
Speaker 2: It's being redeveloped. And the fact that that is happening
Speaker 2: right now when there's so much demand for golf is
Speaker 2: a problem, and it's something that we need to address
Speaker 2: urgently or else the game is gonna wither on the vine.
Speaker 2: We need a supply of golf courses, and we need
Speaker 2: a financial system that allows those golf courses to exist
Speaker 2: and be affordable and be affordable and be good.
Speaker 1: Joseph, what's your Growth the Game initiative? Not too dissimilar, Garrett.
Speaker 1: I like your idea.
Speaker 3: I'm going to reimagine the way that public golf courses
Speaker 3: are booked. It's a problem specifically in Austin where I live,
Speaker 3: but I think it's a problem, huge problem.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, about this about LA specifically recently put together
Speaker 2: by Kevin Van Wolkenberg.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so, like you're saying, Garrett, there is high demand
Speaker 3: right now and often not enough supply at certain golf courses.
Speaker 3: Like the way it works in Austin, people have to
Speaker 3: line up at certain hours to get a tea time,
Speaker 3: which really only allows certain people, like a lot of retirees,
Speaker 3: to get those tea times. I think there should be
Speaker 3: a solution where people who want to play golf have
Speaker 3: some level of access. It might not be like a
Speaker 3: perfect priority order where everyone's getting an equal booking time,
Speaker 3: but I think that we could do a little bit.
Speaker 3: We can make some strides on getting people who are
Speaker 3: interested in playing golf out onto the golf course. I'm
Speaker 3: interested in looking at dynamic pricing. I think it's sometimes
Speaker 3: crazy how tea times that are sixty dollars all the
Speaker 3: time go on un used, and then nobody's using them
Speaker 3: when they could pay I don't know, twenty four twenty
Speaker 3: eight dollars. I know that there's some pushback on dynamic pricing,
Speaker 3: but I want to explore it. I'm going to take solutions.
Speaker 3: We're going to solicit solutions from the smartest minds. I
Speaker 3: don't have a full plan to lay out here, but
Speaker 3: I want to completely reimagine the way that public golf
Speaker 3: is booked in this country and potentially in the world.
Speaker 1: If this solution works, we'll take it worldwide.
Speaker 4: I like this.
Speaker 1: You know, we're Joseph is proposing some some capitalist ideas,
Speaker 1: some you know, free market speech from Joseph here for
Speaker 1: public golf.
Speaker 2: And then saying that he's going to spread it worldwide.
Speaker 2: I haven't heard this love the idea of spreading democracy worldwide.
Speaker 2: I'm not talking about democracy. We should pursue this and
Speaker 2: if we don't accept it, then we should go to
Speaker 2: war with them.
Speaker 1: This is this is being misconstrued.
Speaker 3: I just didn't want to leave out all of our
Speaker 3: friends across the globe who get mad when we're too
Speaker 3: American centric.
Speaker 1: I want to offer the solution. I'm a Garrett Garrett's
Speaker 1: Garrett's talking about subsidies.
Speaker 2: Exactly. I'm all about government. Yeah, I'm just I'm gonna
Speaker 2: grow the government so much. I'm not growing the game.
Speaker 2: I'm growing the government, all right.
Speaker 1: I uh, I guess what I want to propose for
Speaker 1: grow the game. I think kids clubs should be free.
Speaker 1: Here's the thing kids clubs are good for like a year.
Speaker 1: Your kid grows all the time. So you go into
Speaker 1: the golf shop, you sign out a set, and then
Speaker 1: you bring it back a year later and you get
Speaker 1: the new set. There's no reason that people should have
Speaker 1: to pay to get these golf clubs, like you should.
Speaker 1: So it should be free because like you, by the
Speaker 1: time you buy them and you out, you outgrow them
Speaker 1: in like a year or two. So make these golf
Speaker 1: sets like you go in, you sign out. If you
Speaker 1: don't bring it back, you don't get the next size up.
Speaker 1: And yeah, sure, Like is this gonna cost a little
Speaker 1: bit of money, absolutely, but this is a way to
Speaker 1: actually get golf clubs in people's hands. Like have you
Speaker 1: have you tried has your kid tried golf? Oh no,
Speaker 1: I heard its super expensive. Well, actually, kids get freak
Speaker 1: clubs if they go and they you can go pick
Speaker 1: them up here. Like there's nothing special about kids clothes.
Speaker 1: You go, kids clubs. You don't need like big time
Speaker 1: teching them. You don't need anything like that. And the
Speaker 1: thing about it is like there's great programs like Youth
Speaker 1: on Course that offer affordable golf for kids. Why don't
Speaker 1: we make the golf clubs really affordable and easy to
Speaker 1: use too. This is like one of the great virtues
Speaker 1: of basketball is that literally the only thing you need
Speaker 1: to play basketball is a basketball. Yep, and there are
Speaker 1: hoops all over the play soccer. The most popular games,
Speaker 1: uh in terms of participation generally are the easiest ones
Speaker 1: to play. So let's remove some of the barriers for
Speaker 1: kids playing sports. Let's give them free golf clubs.
Speaker 2: I love that you know your daughter's not old enough
Speaker 2: right now, I think to have golf clubs yet maybe
Speaker 2: you're already starting her right that.
Speaker 1: I haven't back always Yeah, okay, we haven't used them.
Speaker 2: My kids are. My kids are are seven and ten,
Speaker 2: and so they both have sets of golf clubs, and
Speaker 2: it has been expensive to keep them in golf clubs
Speaker 2: that actually fit them because, as you say, they grow quickly.
Speaker 2: And also when you buy them a set of golf clubs,
Speaker 2: you're thinking, well, I got to get it too big
Speaker 2: for them right now, because they need to grow into
Speaker 2: it like a pair of shoes. And that's a problem too,
Speaker 2: because for six months or whatever, they're using golf clubs
Speaker 2: that are kind of way too, way too big for them.
Speaker 2: But I do like how we're working the deficit here.
Speaker 2: We are really milking that. We're just living on the
Speaker 2: edge of that huge deficit and just you know, living there.
Speaker 1: Well, we're going to get We're going to get there
Speaker 1: by taxing the pro golfers.
Speaker 2: Well, the real solution here is make the USGA do it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's that's the Uh, that's the real.
Speaker 1: Podcast is a sponsored by the u s g A.
Speaker 1: All right, let's move out to the next topic. We're
Speaker 1: gonna go with equipment.
Speaker 2: I think we're all gonna have the same proposal here.
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know. I might waiver in the wind.
Speaker 1: This is where I might be appealing to.
Speaker 2: You, might take some of that cushion of money, sweet,
Speaker 2: sweet exactly.
Speaker 1: Well, you want to know how you could pay for
Speaker 1: the free golf clubs? You know you buddy up with
Speaker 1: the kusht.
Speaker 2: Pack a cushion it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, Uh, we'll start with you, Joseph on
Speaker 1: this topic.
Speaker 3: I'm I'm just realizing, as you suggested free kids clubs,
Speaker 3: I thought way too inside the box for all my
Speaker 3: solutions are way too practical. So I'm kind of regretting
Speaker 3: that I'm gonna have to change on the fly.
Speaker 2: For it's good to be practical.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this was He is always like a practical person.
Speaker 1: DJ was sketched out as a Champions steward trip and
Speaker 1: send me hard costs. He's a practical guy.
Speaker 2: He's a practico.
Speaker 1: All right.
Speaker 3: I'm just shrinking the driver head, keeping it simple. I
Speaker 3: don't need to dwell on this one too long. We've
Speaker 3: heard a million golfers talk about it, descaling the game.
Speaker 3: We're shrinking the driver head effective immediately. Let's bring some
Speaker 3: finding the center of the club face back to professional golf.
Speaker 3: This is only going to be for professional golfers if
Speaker 3: you want to swing a ten thousand cc club head,
Speaker 3: because that's what everyone loves. Be my guest, but this
Speaker 3: is gonna help brain in distance. It's a very practical solution.
Speaker 3: Bring back skill address the distance issue. We're shrinking the
Speaker 3: driver head on day one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's my proposal as well. But instead
Speaker 2: of saying that, I'll just say two words, no tease.
Speaker 2: Next question, as a driver that that explodes.
Speaker 3: When you swing over a certain miles for hours, the
Speaker 3: great Peter costas Peter Costa.
Speaker 2: Or maybe like a piece of it falls off or something,
Speaker 2: or you know whatever.
Speaker 1: I'm just going to propose this because this, you know,
Speaker 1: this is this is all fun. This might not be
Speaker 1: the most practical thing. One of the great things about
Speaker 1: Persimmon heads was that you had like people like pro
Speaker 1: golfers would use the same driver for twenty years. So
Speaker 1: again in the nature of like removing barriers to entry
Speaker 1: into the sport, like cost is one of the biggest ones.
Speaker 1: And when you had the best players in the world
Speaker 1: using a twenty year old driver or ten year old driver,
Speaker 1: that's a good message. That means you don't have to
Speaker 1: go spend eight hundred dollars or one thousand dollars every
Speaker 1: year to get the new tech. So my my proposal,
Speaker 1: let's go back to persimon. Have there be modest you know, innovation.
Speaker 1: You could like I remember I have a set of
Speaker 1: Ben Hogan woods that I shipped away to Roberto Castro
Speaker 1: that had like this little cut in the side of
Speaker 1: the head that was like a speed slot, you know that,
Speaker 1: Like the idea was to increase the aerodynamics. But like Persimmon,
Speaker 1: like you can't hollow out per Simon. You can't, like
Speaker 1: it's just a solid block of wood. And the thing
Speaker 1: about it is like once you find a driver you like,
Speaker 1: you just use it. That's your driver, And I think
Speaker 1: that's fine. Like that's kind of the way I treat
Speaker 1: drivers in general is once I find a driver I like,
Speaker 1: I usually use it until it cracks, and then I
Speaker 1: move on to the next one. The great thing about
Speaker 1: Persimmon is that it won't crack in six years or
Speaker 1: seven years. It'll it will just be good for twenty
Speaker 1: five years. I never have to buy a new driver.
Speaker 1: So go back to persimmon heads for woods, and you
Speaker 1: would immediately reduce the cost of the sport. Like once again,
Speaker 1: like my platform is like how do we increase participation
Speaker 1: and reduce the cost of the game really in general,
Speaker 1: And and that's where I'm going to be on Persimmon
Speaker 1: driver heads And guess what, it's more fun to hit
Speaker 1: a personmon driver head. I can't tell you how many
Speaker 1: times I go places with either my Hickory's or my
Speaker 1: retro clubs and say we play through a group or
Speaker 1: a group plays through us, whatever it may be. Everybody
Speaker 1: in the group's like, oh my god, is that a
Speaker 1: Persimmon driver or is that a Hickory driver? And I say, oh,
Speaker 1: do you want to try and hit it and they're like, oh, absolutely,
Speaker 1: and then they hear the sound of it and they're like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, that was amazing. It was way easier
Speaker 1: to hit than I thought it was.
Speaker 4: People.
Speaker 1: I think like one of the things that the that
Speaker 1: the equipment companies have done, and this is where I'm
Speaker 1: going to lose my cushion at funding for the free
Speaker 1: kids clubs. I think they've hoodwiged people into thinking that
Speaker 1: Persimmons are like this impossible thing to hit.
Speaker 2: Well, the crazy thing is that you and I Andy
Speaker 2: are old enough to remember watching people play per Simon
Speaker 2: drivers for real. Yeah, Like when I started playing golf,
Speaker 2: my dad still hit a per Simon driver. My dad
Speaker 2: is not a professional golfer. He just liked the club
Speaker 2: and he had fun playing golf. I dare say he
Speaker 2: had more fun playing golf than most people who play
Speaker 2: golf today. And so the game was fun forty fifty
Speaker 2: years ago. It's just expectations that have gotten in the way.
Speaker 2: And you know what's cool is watching sho Heyo Tani
Speaker 2: swing a wooden bat. It just wouldn't be as cool
Speaker 2: to see him do what he does with a metal bat.
Speaker 2: And sorry for bringing up traumatic things.
Speaker 4: PJ.
Speaker 3: Probably the underrated part of that too, is the impact
Speaker 3: it could have on pace of play by hitting the
Speaker 3: ball a little bit shorter and not everyone going for
Speaker 3: five hundred yard one hundred and twenty yard part fives
Speaker 3: at public golf courses like we'd probably see an increase
Speaker 3: in pace of play.
Speaker 1: The other thing is dispersion patterns or are less because
Speaker 1: the ball doesn't go as far, so it doesn't go
Speaker 1: as far offline, less time looking for golf ball.
Speaker 2: Something that's already gotten lost in the equipment discussion is
Speaker 2: the whole point in the first place, which was to
Speaker 2: try to control the expanding footprint of everyday golf courses.
Speaker 2: That's what the governing bodies were really putting research into
Speaker 2: is finding out what those dynamics were, not just at
Speaker 2: tour golf courses, but at the golf courses we play
Speaker 2: every day. And they did find that those courses are
Speaker 2: being stressed by the realities of distance gains at every
Speaker 2: level of the game. So this is not just a
Speaker 2: professional golf issue. But we're agreeing too much here. I
Speaker 2: feel like people don't have enough of a reason, or
Speaker 2: PJ doesn't have enough way.
Speaker 1: We haven't we haven't swerved off yet we haven't and
Speaker 1: nobody's nobody's made a you know, crazy claim that you
Speaker 1: know clearly some sort of big industry titan has gotten
Speaker 1: to them.
Speaker 2: I mean I did say, I'm not sure which industry
Speaker 2: would encourage that.
Speaker 1: Just I think you're pandering to random Twitter responders suggest
Speaker 1: that I am. That's that's such a Twitter thing to say. No, teas,
Speaker 1: let's go to women's professional golf. What is your what
Speaker 1: is your your platform here? What is your opinion? Where? Where's?
Speaker 1: Where do we need to go?
Speaker 2: Who's going here?
Speaker 1: Okay, I gotta go last on all of them.
Speaker 2: Well you're because you get to you get to back
Speaker 2: clean up here. Yeah. Well, with women's pro golf. Since
Speaker 2: since I've already established myself as a tournament destroyer in
Speaker 2: my proposal to abolish the FedEx Cup playoffs, let's get
Speaker 2: rid of the Avon Championship. You know it can still exist,
Speaker 2: but it's not a major. And let's give an ultimatum
Speaker 2: Chevron and say, if you don't take this tournament to
Speaker 2: a worthy golf course, we're taking away your major status too.
Speaker 2: Will go with three majors for the time being and
Speaker 2: see if a fourth emerges. Somewhere along the way. But
Speaker 2: right now, these are not majors. Nobody feels like they're majors.
Speaker 2: It's just a big charade. We're told they're majors, but
Speaker 2: we know in our souls that the Avon Championship and
Speaker 2: the Chevron Championship are not major championship golf in the
Speaker 2: way that the US Women's Open is, in the way
Speaker 2: that the Women's PGA Championship is, and in the way
Speaker 2: that the Women's Open clearly is. So that's something that
Speaker 2: really needs to be fixed, because if one thing absolutely
Speaker 2: has to work in a professional golf structure, it's the
Speaker 2: major championships. That's the one thing that men's pro golf
Speaker 2: is doing right right now. It's the one thing that's
Speaker 2: going well on that side of the game. The majors
Speaker 2: are still the majors and are still great. Needs to
Speaker 2: get its act together with these five majors, two of
Speaker 2: which are really not majors.
Speaker 3: That's some big dictator energy right there, Garrett. That's like, yeah,
Speaker 3: evy on, go tell Chevron what I did to you.
Speaker 3: That's I'm just just levy handed. My proposal is a
Speaker 3: women's golf app that televises or broadcasts streams all their tournaments. Nope,
Speaker 3: we're gonna blow up all of our existing network deals
Speaker 3: and just go straight to a streaming service that is
Speaker 3: similar to like the WNBA League Pass. And maybe we
Speaker 3: still have a Cup Golf Plus. It's gonna be LPGA
Speaker 3: Tour Plus. And I don't no longer are people gonna
Speaker 3: have to worry about where you can watch it if
Speaker 3: it's gonna be tape delayed. I don't care if five
Speaker 3: thousand people are watching it or five million, but we're
Speaker 3: gonna have an app specifically dedicated for it. And if
Speaker 3: there is this infusion of fan interest into women's golf,
Speaker 3: I don't know how popular women's golf will be five
Speaker 3: years from now, but it's going to be set up
Speaker 3: and ready to capture that fan interest if it arrives.
Speaker 3: That is my platform, LPGA Tour Plus.
Speaker 1: All right. I like that idea and the and.
Speaker 2: The advantage of it is that LPGA Tour Commissioner Molly
Speaker 2: Mark Whusamon can say, well, yes, our ratings aren't that good,
Speaker 2: but there are millions of people watching on the app.
Speaker 1: Transparent reporting to could you partner with Caffeine not anymore?
Speaker 2: Caffeine TV could get some big deals in Australia and
Speaker 2: Spain with streaming services.
Speaker 1: I am going to propose that we beef up the
Speaker 1: LPGA Tour media team. I of all, like, there are
Speaker 1: a lot of things that I would like to address
Speaker 1: about the LPGA Tour course collection. A course selection would
Speaker 1: be my secondary platform.
Speaker 2: Schedule is a mess. Can you believe how bad the
Speaker 2: schedule is.
Speaker 1: It's a bad schedule, but like at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, they're showing they're not doing themselves any favors.
Speaker 1: Like I never go on like the Twitter or the
Speaker 1: Instagram and see, like, you know, tons of great shots
Speaker 1: being played like and I think like a lot of
Speaker 1: this is just like resource allocation, you know, like I
Speaker 1: would be dumping money into making our sport more visible
Speaker 1: and right now, the best way to free into you know,
Speaker 1: effectively at cost, effectively increase your invisibility is through social media.
Speaker 1: And I think their social media pages are leave a
Speaker 1: lot to be desired, and I think it's probably in
Speaker 1: a lot of ways just about not having enough people.
Speaker 1: So I would maybe look at, hey, can we reallocate
Speaker 1: one hundred thousand dollars here, one hundred thousand dollars here,
Speaker 1: and maybe double are our media team, amount of people
Speaker 1: and the resources they have, so that we can put
Speaker 1: our sport out in front of people as much as possible,
Speaker 1: so we can garner viral moments. Like I think like
Speaker 1: a lot of probably like great moments happen on the
Speaker 1: LPGA that could be Sports Center Top ten moments, but
Speaker 1: they just don't tell anybody that they happened. That we
Speaker 1: don't We don't know what happened because like a lot
Speaker 1: of times, they are never it's never shown. It's either
Speaker 1: shown on tape delays Joseph put suggested, or it's never
Speaker 1: clipped into social media or never was televised in the
Speaker 1: first part. So like my big thing would all be
Speaker 1: about visibility. Let's get our product out there as much
Speaker 1: as possible on these free, potentially viral channels in order
Speaker 1: to garner more fan interest.
Speaker 2: I could be with that. I mean, the PGA Tours
Speaker 2: and Media team now has its own palace.
Speaker 1: It sounds like I wouldn't do a deal where we
Speaker 1: rented office space and they're it's kind of like their
Speaker 1: their TV right steel they'll be exact to tack on.
Speaker 1: That could be another platform, like let's not align ourselves
Speaker 1: with the PGA Tour. That could be like another platform.
Speaker 1: We're going to do every everything the PGA Tour is doing.
Speaker 1: We're going to do the complete opposite, and you probably
Speaker 1: have a really good tour.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I think that's the real opportunity for the LPGA
Speaker 2: Tour right now, is to define itself in opposition to
Speaker 2: the PGA Tour. That's an open lane, and I think
Speaker 2: it could be pretty fruitful, and I.
Speaker 1: Think they do it to a certain except with like
Speaker 1: the players. The players are so friendly, they're so welcoming,
Speaker 1: they're so excited about like playing golf. Like, right there,
Speaker 1: you have a diametrically opposed tour. Right you go to
Speaker 1: PGA Tour event, whether you're a fan or a member
Speaker 1: of the media, and you are you are just lucky
Speaker 1: to be gracing the player's presence, right you know, like
Speaker 1: you're just lucky, lucky that you might get to see
Speaker 1: to walk past one of them. The LPGA it's like, hey,
Speaker 1: how are you doing? And you're as a media member,
Speaker 1: You're like, wait, what, why are you asking me how
Speaker 1: I'm doing?
Speaker 2: It is almost a little bit confusing, but yeah, the
Speaker 2: why of LPGA Tour experience is fantastic and maybe That's
Speaker 2: another thing that could be built out a little bit,
Speaker 2: because going to LPGA Tour events is super fun. But
Speaker 2: I'm not sure that people talk about that that much,
Speaker 2: or that the events locally or are are really gaining
Speaker 2: traction in the way that they should.
Speaker 1: I think that I think they have just like a
Speaker 1: messaging issue in general about their product and what it
Speaker 1: is and how it is. Like they just they just
Speaker 1: in general do not they I don't think they have
Speaker 1: the resources to properly expose people to what their product is.
Speaker 2: It's bizarre too, because if there's one thing that money
Speaker 2: is being spent on right now, it is women's sports. Yeah, right,
Speaker 2: those sponsorships should not necessarily I'm not saying that it's
Speaker 2: as big of money as like the NFL is getting
Speaker 2: from the TV networks, obviously, but those sponsorships are not
Speaker 2: that hard to come by. And for some reason, the
Speaker 2: LPGA Tour right now is shedding sponsors rather than picking
Speaker 2: up sponsors. It sounds like Cognizant is maybe out. So
Speaker 2: there's something odd going on with the leadership of the
Speaker 2: LPGA Tour. I'm not sure what it is, but it
Speaker 2: feels oddly low energy at the moment.
Speaker 1: All right, final final platform or you know topic that
Speaker 1: we're going to batter around here. The golf course industry. This,
Speaker 1: this includes architecture, this includes agronomy. It's just all about
Speaker 1: golf courses. Garrett's already already crowbarred this topic into Grow
Speaker 1: the Game.
Speaker 2: That's true.
Speaker 1: It might have taken my platform here, but I'm gonna
Speaker 1: come up with a different one.
Speaker 2: I might have initially had that one for golf course
Speaker 2: industry but not been able to come up with anything
Speaker 2: for Grow the Game and maybe moved it.
Speaker 1: Joseph, what's your your initiative here?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I Mine is for some central repository database. I
Speaker 3: would love to have all golf courses. But if it's
Speaker 3: just municipal golf courses, that's fine. If it's municipal public,
Speaker 3: that's great. But I want to store all of the
Speaker 3: original drawings of a golf course with the architects an
Speaker 3: explanation for the architect's vision for the golf course, so
Speaker 3: that years down the line, we're not looking back trying
Speaker 3: to scrape together drawings and understand if the architect who's
Speaker 3: hired to do the renovation is betraying the original vision.
Speaker 3: I want it all documented somewhere from one central source.
Speaker 3: If someone's hired to do a project on a municipal course,
Speaker 3: we're going to put what that cost and what the
Speaker 3: work was on it all in one location. Remove all
Speaker 3: the ambiguity around what the architect's original intent was and
Speaker 3: what the golf course looks like one hundred and fifty
Speaker 3: years later.
Speaker 1: Get that set up.
Speaker 3: It's not a day one initiative, but that's my second
Speaker 3: or third week on the job.
Speaker 2: This should be on the Friday dot Com.
Speaker 1: It sounds like it can be a private sector solution.
Speaker 2: Okay, my proposal, no green speeds above eleven on the stage.
Speaker 1: You just took a one.
Speaker 2: I knew it too. I knew this was going to
Speaker 2: be one of yours. I'm sorry. You know what I
Speaker 2: could have talked about, like bunker sand or something like that.
Speaker 1: But I know this is This is not the case
Speaker 1: in American politics. But we can have a similar stance
Speaker 1: on things.
Speaker 2: We can agree on things. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1: This is politics can be this way where we can
Speaker 1: agree on right.
Speaker 2: You can elect either of us and we'll be happy
Speaker 2: for each other.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I won't.
Speaker 2: You won't go that far. I will.
Speaker 1: I will disassociate and start my own, my own country
Speaker 1: within within Friday.
Speaker 2: Friday Gastan, All right, well he'll be that.
Speaker 1: It'll be Frida Egg, you know, the Jefferson of Frida Egg.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. I forgot about the state of Jefferson. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's in my area of the country too. It's great,
Speaker 2: all right. Anyway, I found a great quote from Pete
Speaker 2: Die a couple of days ago for and put it
Speaker 2: in this design notebook that we just published in Club TFE,
Speaker 2: and I thought that Pete Dye said it really well.
Speaker 2: The great architects, Pete Dye, the guy behind TPC, Sawgrass,
Speaker 2: harbor Town, et cetera. He said, if greens are maintained
Speaker 2: at speeds over eleven feet on the stint meter, no
Speaker 2: architect in their right mind can build any contour or
Speaker 2: character into their greens. When you take contour out of
Speaker 2: the greens and speed them up, you only make the
Speaker 2: game easier for the average putting tour pro and harder
Speaker 2: for the club player. There is much more skill required
Speaker 2: in putting slower, undulating and grainy greens than there is
Speaker 2: in putting flat ones that are fast. So at some
Speaker 2: point we are going to have to figure out what
Speaker 2: we really want from our golf courses. Do we want
Speaker 2: interesting tests of skill with lots of character and perhaps
Speaker 2: a little grain on the greens, or do we want
Speaker 2: level but slick putting surfaces that only make the game
Speaker 2: less interesting. I think that puts it really well. By
Speaker 2: slowing down greens, you incentivize architects to do more interesting work.
Speaker 2: You incentivize clubs to maintain the character of their courses.
Speaker 1: I think, like the fascinating thing about this quote is
Speaker 1: the start of where he talks about, you know how
Speaker 1: it makes it easier for the average player and harder
Speaker 1: for the good player.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, like that it's so true too, Right,
Speaker 2: if you want a tour to make a bunch of putts,
Speaker 2: give them a flat, smooth fast They're just gonna make
Speaker 2: everything from everywhere.
Speaker 1: Everything from everywhere. Meanwhile, when you slow it down, like
Speaker 1: what's the talking point at every Open championship. Oh, they're
Speaker 1: just struggling to get the speeds right. You know why,
Speaker 1: because they actually have to worry about a ball getting
Speaker 1: to the hole. They have to like, the idea of
Speaker 1: a ball coming up short is a realm of possibility. Right,
Speaker 1: So speed control actually becomes like a big thing. And
Speaker 1: I think like people get upset because like some people
Speaker 1: just lay it dead constantly, over and over again. You
Speaker 1: know what that is. That's someone with supreme speed control
Speaker 1: being rewarded. You know, somebody that hits the center of
Speaker 1: the putter face over and over again being rewarded. We
Speaker 1: saw perhaps Scottie Shuffler's worst putting performance this year at
Speaker 1: the Open Championship. He was awful on putts of like
Speaker 1: six feet eight feet And one thing that popped in
Speaker 1: my mind is like, oh, he actually has to hit
Speaker 1: the putt solid for the ball to stay on the
Speaker 1: line and go in the hole. I had one of
Speaker 1: my worst putting rounds of the year at a course
Speaker 1: called Wolf River Golf Park. They were perhaps the best
Speaker 1: greens that I put it on all year in terms
Speaker 1: of what we're talking about now. They were rock hard,
Speaker 1: so firm, and they rolled at about a nine maybe
Speaker 1: a ten, And I was when I had a wedge
Speaker 1: in my hand, I was like terrified about like thinking about,
Speaker 1: like I need to land this ninety two yards and
Speaker 1: if I land at ninety four, I'm probably gonna miss
Speaker 1: this section of the green that I need to get
Speaker 1: this wedge into But then when I got on the green,
Speaker 1: if I had six feet in the putt and the
Speaker 1: and you know a lot of the cups were on
Speaker 1: you know, slopes. I was really I was struggling that
Speaker 1: day with my stroke, was not hitting puts solidly, and
Speaker 1: I was missing everything. And I think about like that
Speaker 1: day as like, oh I putt it probably the worst
Speaker 1: I put it all year that day, And I think
Speaker 1: that a lot of it had to do with me
Speaker 1: actually having to hit puts solid that day and being
Speaker 1: just not stroking the ball well that day. So I
Speaker 1: just think that this is a it's just such a
Speaker 1: it's such an easy way to bring We're always trying
Speaker 1: to bring skill gap together. This is a great way
Speaker 1: to bring skill gap together. PJ. I'm gonna run slightly
Speaker 1: on the opposite.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna push back in that I do not think
Speaker 3: speed in and of itself is the culprit. Small green
Speaker 3: that's super fast, yes you can't do something interesting with it,
Speaker 3: but big greens can be fast. Like the point I
Speaker 3: want to push back on Garrett and Andy is being
Speaker 3: short sighted has to be a penalty, Like if if
Speaker 3: the greens are really slow, therefore short sighting yourself. You
Speaker 3: can still chip it really close. That's not going to
Speaker 3: lead to the best tests. I don't think speed is
Speaker 3: actually the culprit. I think Garrett, some of what you're
Speaker 3: mentioning with the lack of interesting strategic intrigue to the
Speaker 3: greens is the true culprit. And yes, speed, when you
Speaker 3: have small greens and you crank them up to fourteen,
Speaker 3: they can't be interesting. I'm with you on that, but
Speaker 3: I'm going to stand up a little bit for fast
Speaker 3: greens in certain instances like an Augusta.
Speaker 2: I think candidate Lamanya is too obsessed with what goes
Speaker 2: on in pro golf. This whole short sighting has to
Speaker 2: be a penalty kind of thing.
Speaker 1: You can prota.
Speaker 2: You can say if short sighting is, you can say
Speaker 2: short sighting yourself should be, can be. It can be
Speaker 2: a penalty due to architectural factors too. Right, Yes, you
Speaker 2: have slower greens and can actually build some till into
Speaker 2: that that's the key and pin them on the tilt.
Speaker 2: Then then you have kind of the same I'm with
Speaker 2: you on that. Okay, fine, we're we're agreeing now. Jesus,
Speaker 2: I was trying to get some controversy going. We need
Speaker 2: somebody to come in here and say I'm going to
Speaker 2: get rid of all the woke Greens.
Speaker 1: That's it. We should have brought in a party that
Speaker 1: was going to be diametrically opposed to the to the others.
Speaker 2: I think. I think one of the one of the
Speaker 2: main exponents of that philosophy has disappeared from from the Internet,
Speaker 2: so we weren't able to weren't able to manage it
Speaker 2: this time.
Speaker 1: Well, their identity could not be confirmed or denied either,
Speaker 1: So all right, PJ, who's who's your vote? Who's your
Speaker 1: vote for? For winner?
Speaker 2: PJ is going to have to sign it, yeah, do
Speaker 2: it an American sign language.
Speaker 1: That doesn't for this debate. I don't think he wants
Speaker 1: to make a vote the repercussions, so for those who
Speaker 1: can't hear.
Speaker 2: I think that was as far as the listeners heard.
Speaker 1: PJA enjoyed how cutthroat Garrett was with with his his policies,
Speaker 1: including you know, eliminating tournaments.
Speaker 2: So typical gen Z just wants to burn it all down,
Speaker 2: you know, doesn't doesn't recognize the value of institutions.
Speaker 1: So so Garrett has won this presidential debate, that doesn't
Speaker 1: I hope everybody enjoyed this lighthearted discussion. I think there
Speaker 1: are some substantial ideas in it as well. So all right, uh,
Speaker 1: let's kick it over to Rue McDonald. Uh to talk
Speaker 1: about cool links. All right, Before we get to Room
Speaker 1: McDonald and cool Links, let's talk about our partner, Stripe.
Speaker 4: Uh.
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Speaker 1: check out Stripe. If you want to use Stripe, if
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Speaker 1: dot com. Thanks to Stripe. Now back to Rue McDonald
Speaker 1: and cool Links. All right, Rue, I'm excited to talk
Speaker 1: about cool Links. This is a development in northern Scotland,
Speaker 1: the Highlands. Tell us a little bit about the history
Speaker 1: of cool Links the land, you know, kind of how
Speaker 1: it's come to be as this somewhat I don't know
Speaker 1: if this is the right word, but embroiled topic in
Speaker 1: northern Scotland.
Speaker 4: Yeah, thanks Andy, And unfortunately it has become kind of
Speaker 4: a long saga, as I'm sure we're going to discuss.
Speaker 4: A lot of Scotland's coastline is heavily protected and this
Speaker 4: is probably one of the last genuine, incredible sites in
Speaker 4: Scotland that could be developed for Scottish golf. I think
Speaker 4: the future of Scottish links golf and developments into Scotland
Speaker 4: will be purchasing existing golf courses, but this would be
Speaker 4: a new golf course just two miles north of Dorroch.
Speaker 4: Honestly an incredible site. And I before I joined the
Speaker 4: DP World Tour, where I've been working for seven and
Speaker 4: a half years, I ran my own podcast. It was
Speaker 4: the scottis Golf Podcast. It was all about, you know,
Speaker 4: speaking to people that have been on golf trips to
Speaker 4: Scotland planning the next golf trip. And it was just
Speaker 4: a blog really in a podcast. And I went on
Speaker 4: the site of cool Links and I walked the site
Speaker 4: and I actually walked into literally walked into Mike Kaiser
Speaker 4: and at the time, you know, his right hand man
Speaker 4: in Scotland, Todd Warnick. That was the first development application
Speaker 4: for the golf course. Todd Warnick's an American. I think
Speaker 4: he's actually from Chicago and a successful businessman who loves
Speaker 4: Dornich and who has this incredible hotel with Doric and
Speaker 4: between the two of them, they were planning to build
Speaker 4: a golf course and have Bill Koor and Ben Crenshaw
Speaker 4: designed the golf course. And I think, you know, for
Speaker 4: every for all that Todd does for the community, he's
Speaker 4: very philanthropic. He puts a lot of money back into
Speaker 4: the town and developing things there and for whatever reason,
Speaker 4: the locals didn't take to another American coming into Dorak
Speaker 4: and trying to do something, and that a lot of pushback.
Speaker 4: It went through the courts and the courts, you know,
Speaker 4: despite public opinion being in favor of the golf course
Speaker 4: and the local council approving the application, it was eventually
Speaker 4: rejected on environmental grounds. So that's the short answer. That's
Speaker 4: where we are, and there's been a new project. Locals
Speaker 4: came together. They didn't want to turn away the opportunity
Speaker 4: to have a golf course there. So the locals got together,
Speaker 4: Communities for Cool and six local people, business people, people
Speaker 4: that worked around Dora and got together and they resurrected
Speaker 4: the project very much as a public a local project,
Speaker 4: still going to be backed by Mike Kiser, but you know,
Speaker 4: with very much the community in the spirit of resurrected
Speaker 4: it and they've got Really the first thing they did
Speaker 4: was put it to the local vote. They asked locals,
Speaker 4: do you want a golf course? And almost seventy percent
Speaker 4: of them voted in favor of a golf course. So
Speaker 4: they've they've got the application, resubmitted it past planning. It
Speaker 4: got the support of the local community. But unfortunately there's
Speaker 4: still some concerns around the environmental impact, which is is
Speaker 4: very small. We can go into it and it's going
Speaker 4: to be decided in a couple of weeks now in
Speaker 4: Scotland's sort of in the capital Edinburgh, where the national
Speaker 4: government will decide if the economic and social benefits of
Speaker 4: the golf course outweigh the minor environmental impact. Long answer
Speaker 4: to a very difficult subject matter what.
Speaker 1: Advantage? I guess it was presented by the locals presenting
Speaker 1: this rather than another wealthy American.
Speaker 4: I think, you know, there's there's literally a phrase. I mean,
Speaker 4: if you look into Scottish history, there's a phrase about,
Speaker 4: you know, the Highland clearances, and you've been to Scotland,
Speaker 4: you've been into sort of urban areas in the in
Speaker 4: the central belt we call it Edinburgh and Glasgow, where
Speaker 4: the population resides. The Highlands is barren. Highlands lacks job opportunities.
Speaker 4: If you have a young family, it's very hard to
Speaker 4: sort of find work there that can raise a young family.
Speaker 4: So a lot of locals leave Dork and leave the
Speaker 4: Highlands and move down to the south where the population is.
Speaker 4: And the strongest argument was, you know want to we
Speaker 4: want to keep population high in this part of the
Speaker 4: world or do you want to increase numbers. It was
Speaker 4: the most recent census saw an uptaking older people like
Speaker 4: moving to the Highlands as a retirement sort of thing
Speaker 4: as well. So that's the biggest thing, Like, you know,
Speaker 4: you know the power we all know the power of
Speaker 4: golf tourism and the money it brings and how do
Speaker 4: you retain you know, the population, how do you keep
Speaker 4: people in the area. And tourism in the Highlands of
Speaker 4: Scotland is a massive thing, and golf tourism's very, you know,
Speaker 4: a very affluent sector to be working in. So Royal Dorrick,
Speaker 4: you know, they have seventeen hundred overseas members at Royal Dornic.
Speaker 4: They do you know, twenty thousand visitor rounds. So there's
Speaker 4: there's already appetite in the area for great golf, great
Speaker 4: links golf. What cool can be is you know a
Speaker 4: visitor only addition to that, And anyone listening to this
Speaker 4: podcast knows about Bill Koor and Kaiser and the golf
Speaker 4: courses they get involved with. It's very difficult to maybe
Speaker 4: portray that to people that are not wanting to educate themselves.
Speaker 4: And the frustrating thing for me and the people involved
Speaker 4: in this project is the sort of lazy argument from
Speaker 4: the other side who just perceived golf to be one
Speaker 4: thing and we know that, you know, modern golf course
Speaker 4: designers is it is with minimal, minimal impact on the
Speaker 4: environment and trying to be is. Certainly Bill Kohr, I mean,
Speaker 4: you know that's more than me, Andy, but you know,
Speaker 4: talk to his golf course philosophy and how how little
Speaker 4: earth movement there is and with the environmental constraints here,
Speaker 4: this will be all This could arguably the most natural
Speaker 4: wings golf course built, certainly in this century.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think obviously, and I think there's been some
Speaker 1: projects in Scotland that probably have have not been the
Speaker 1: best the best environmental steward over the last couple of decades,
Speaker 1: and that could potentially be some of the backlash. You know,
Speaker 1: Bill Corus obviously, you know, over his career been pretty
Speaker 1: sensitive to the environment and in terms of you know,
Speaker 1: searching out and seeking out to a tireless degree the
Speaker 1: most natural routing that he can find. Obviously, like sand
Speaker 1: Hills is a great example where they really only moved
Speaker 1: earth to build one green on on the entire site.
Speaker 1: I as you know, in terms of Scotland, what do
Speaker 1: you think cool Links would do to elevate the general
Speaker 1: area the Highlands as you spoke about, you know, in
Speaker 1: terms of economic impact, it's an area where most of
Speaker 1: the people that live there move away to work somewhere
Speaker 1: else and then it sounds like come back to it
Speaker 1: later in life when they are done working. What type
Speaker 1: of impact with cool Links have to the to the
Speaker 1: Highlands as a as a golf tour the market.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's such an important question of this whole
Speaker 4: argument I think. I you know, this is not a
Speaker 4: jive at you, but you know, the Americans perceive the
Speaker 4: Highlands to be, you know, everything from Aberdeen to Dornut,
Speaker 4: and it's such a long area, Like if I was
Speaker 4: to drive from Aberdeen to Dornut, it's going to take
Speaker 4: me three and a half hours on some interesting roads.
Speaker 4: When I met Mike Kailer and Todd Warnick that day
Speaker 4: and I was invited in to have a drink with
Speaker 4: them and discuss the project, I actually asked Mike Kailers,
Speaker 4: as somebody who loves Scottish golf tourism, is you know,
Speaker 4: are your successful resorts at Bannon June's good for Scottish
Speaker 4: golf tourism or is it taking people away? Are you
Speaker 4: going to band in June's and you know, thinking about,
Speaker 4: you know, having your golf fix, And you know, his
Speaker 4: answer is very much like if people play band in June's,
Speaker 4: they'll be inspired to come to Scotland. It's almost a
Speaker 4: flavor of it. And he told me that day that
Speaker 4: when he when he thought about creating Van and June's,
Speaker 4: he thinks of his time at Dornach and the bus
Speaker 4: loads of people arriving there and then leaving. And that is,
Speaker 4: unfortunately scenario that Dorak faces. People driving these mini buses
Speaker 4: and I heard today people nobody's taking a self drive
Speaker 4: shift stick now in Scotland, despite the you know the rumors,
Speaker 4: ninety five percent of some of these golf travel agents
Speaker 4: are sending people on golf buses and being driven around
Speaker 4: the country. But that's another point. Unfortunately, Dornick's like a
Speaker 4: a day visit and it genuinely means people show up
Speaker 4: there in the morning playing the golf, which is one
Speaker 4: of the best golf coaches in the world. And I'm
Speaker 4: sure one day we can enjoy that privilege together andy,
Speaker 4: But they then get on the bus and they drive off,
Speaker 4: they drive off to Mbness perhaps you know Tabot Highlands,
Speaker 4: which is you know, formerly Castle Stewart is one of
Speaker 4: my favorite places and it's great, but it's a long
Speaker 4: way away. It's over an hour's drive from Dornack and
Speaker 4: the economic impact of the golfer isn't really felt in
Speaker 4: the town. And Dornock's one of these great towns. We
Speaker 4: were lucky enough to be at the opening St Andrews
Speaker 4: in twenty twenty two and you get a sense of
Speaker 4: what a great golf town is. You were obviously recently
Speaker 4: in North Berrick and Gullan and they're great golf towns,
Speaker 4: and Dornucks another one, and I would really, you know,
Speaker 4: I really believe that in addition to that area of
Speaker 4: another top one hundred links golf course in the world
Speaker 4: would turn that into destination really And unfortunately those people
Speaker 4: that get to Dorac at the moment and get off
Speaker 4: the bus and back on the bus don't make time
Speaker 4: to go visit Brora. And Brora is famous for having
Speaker 4: the livestock roam the course and the Highland cows and
Speaker 4: the sheep that maintained the fair way just like golf
Speaker 4: used to be in the nineteen hundreds, and it's one
Speaker 4: of the best golf experiences anyone can experience. And a
Speaker 4: lot of Americans don't experience it in they you know,
Speaker 4: they're visiting Dornut and it's only thirty five or four
Speaker 4: minutes away. So that that is the impact that an
Speaker 4: additional golf course could have. It really would transform the
Speaker 4: area into a destination.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's the thing is is you
Speaker 1: just think of the logistics of a golf trip, right
Speaker 1: and if you get to an area and you know
Speaker 1: you're building your golf trip and there are two courses
Speaker 1: right there to play, you are you are most likely
Speaker 1: going to stay overnight. And I think the addition of
Speaker 1: a of a cool links would do that for Dornic.
Speaker 1: Especially like the way these things go, I've heard very
Speaker 1: few and I think like maybe this should be considered
Speaker 1: more often when people go to Scotland. Is like playing
Speaker 1: a golf course a second time. It's like usually when
Speaker 1: you start to figure it out and learn a lot
Speaker 1: about it. But it's hard to like pass up the
Speaker 1: opportunity of seeing six or seven to see three or
Speaker 1: four if you played, you know, to every everyone twice.
Speaker 1: And I think like the other aspect of this is
Speaker 1: like getting one tea time at Royal Dornik is tough enough,
Speaker 1: getting two, doesn't you know? That doesn't work for the
Speaker 1: economics of the town when you can only get one
Speaker 1: tea time, right, Like, there's there's more at play than
Speaker 1: just you know, hey, people just aren't staying. It's like
Speaker 1: they don't have a reason to stay, and that cool
Speaker 1: links would give them an additional reason to stay and
Speaker 1: and and potentially you know, really transform an area. That
Speaker 1: that is from what I understand, I haven't been one
Speaker 1: of the most you know, beautiful areas in the in
Speaker 1: the world. As you said, Broers there, Golspie's there. You know,
Speaker 1: there are there is enough good golf there. And I
Speaker 1: think like one of the things that an addition of
Speaker 1: a of a real you know, like I think like
Speaker 1: you know, there's there's great courses that people know about,
Speaker 1: like you know an elee a, but like there are
Speaker 1: there are courses that that draw greater interest and and
Speaker 1: you know, the Kaiser name, along with Bill Koorr, has
Speaker 1: the opportunity to pull in a greater appeal to an
Speaker 1: area and then all of a sudden you look at
Speaker 1: golspeak cool Links, Brara and Dornik and it becomes a
Speaker 1: potential two three nights day.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think that's the frustrating thing. Like we
Speaker 4: know golf right and we are you know, part of
Speaker 4: the one percent that you know consume your content and
Speaker 4: love that. But you do have a great, a perfect
Speaker 4: recipe in Mike Kaiser, Bill Kourr, Dornuk, Scottish Highlands Links
Speaker 4: golf like it's a perfect cocktail. And unfortunately the opposition
Speaker 4: and the people that have been clever on the opposition,
Speaker 4: you know, they've dislabeled at golf. When I do believe
Speaker 4: if you did, you know, ten minutes of research about
Speaker 4: Mike Kaiser, ten minutes about Bill Kourr, you realize that
Speaker 4: these people care deeply for an environment. They they build
Speaker 4: golf courses with golf and great golf at the forefront.
Speaker 4: They don't build any of the other bs that goes
Speaker 4: around it. They they care for great you know, great golf,
Speaker 4: sandy soils like that is there. That's their footprint, right,
Speaker 4: And you know this more than me. And you've been
Speaker 4: lucky to be in Bill Courr's company like that guy deserves,
Speaker 4: you know, deserve you know, in the grand scheme of things,
Speaker 4: it's not a big deal, but like his legacy would
Speaker 4: be fitting to have a great Links golf course in Scotland,
Speaker 4: which you think time is running out. You know, there's
Speaker 4: not many sites left and there's not many opportunities left,
Speaker 4: and you know, by all accounts, his routing is really exciting,
Speaker 4: it's very natural, it's conducive to the environment. I mean,
Speaker 4: the the environmental impact of the golf course is going
Speaker 4: to be less than one percent of the Triple s
Speaker 4: I And it's really going to be greens and tea
Speaker 4: boxes that are going to be maintained. And you know,
Speaker 4: even even you know, landing areas maybe being preserved by
Speaker 4: sheep initially just kind of help mitigate the fruit print
Speaker 4: and the damage done to the environmental areas. But I
Speaker 4: really don't think people understand like who you're dealing with
Speaker 4: here in terms of people that care for the environment.
Speaker 4: And I said this to you before we recorded, like
Speaker 4: golfers do love the environment, like I love being outdoors.
Speaker 4: That you love being out Gopher's very much part of
Speaker 4: the experience and the days of golfers not being that
Speaker 4: way I mean, I think, I don't know. I'd love
Speaker 4: to hear your thoughts from that. In terms of, like,
Speaker 4: you know, I think more and more golfers are enjoying,
Speaker 4: enjoying taking care of nature, and I feel obligated to
Speaker 4: enjoy the environment a bit more.
Speaker 1: And I don't know, I mean, I think that's one
Speaker 1: of the I think it is probably with a lot
Speaker 1: of golfers a little bit more subliminal than upfront, but like,
Speaker 1: to me, like one of the most beautiful one of
Speaker 1: the things that I love most about golf, Like there's
Speaker 1: nothing I love more than a twilight round playing golf. Really,
Speaker 1: I love playing by myself a twilight around and just
Speaker 1: being alone in nature like and I think like the
Speaker 1: golf courses that I personally am kind of drawn to
Speaker 1: when I think about it, are often the ones that
Speaker 1: that blend in with nature the most, you know, and
Speaker 1: are are really that embody kind of the natural features
Speaker 1: that you would have encountered if you were just hiking
Speaker 1: the golf course. And I think, like that's you know,
Speaker 1: from all signs with this project. What's interesting is it's
Speaker 1: almost a constraint where they have to be so environmentally
Speaker 1: sensitive with their with the creation of the golf course
Speaker 1: that it could yield, you know, one of the most
Speaker 1: natural golf courses built in the modern era, which is
Speaker 1: a fascinating you know subject matter, right, like the idea
Speaker 1: of like building a golf course without disturbing the environment.
Speaker 1: And I think that there's been some some uh credit
Speaker 1: to golf actually being a wonderful way to stabilize dunes
Speaker 1: into preserved dunes because there's a aspect of the golf
Speaker 1: course that has inherent benefit an interest in preservation of
Speaker 1: the dunes land that these golf courses sit in.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's a huge part of the argument here
Speaker 4: as well. I mean one person I haven't mentioned yet
Speaker 4: is Chris Haspell, who would be the course manager who
Speaker 4: helped build Castle Stewart with Gill Hans, who's built golf
Speaker 4: courses in Scandinavia and across Europe, you know, being environmentally conscious.
Speaker 4: This is a guy like Mike and like build build
Speaker 4: things and shape things. Don't build things, they do things
Speaker 4: very minimally. But yeah, I mean the current site as well,
Speaker 4: despite it being you know, classed as a triple S,
Speaker 4: I like the highest rating that you could have on
Speaker 4: a site. It's very purely maintained the Scottish government that
Speaker 4: managed this Nature scott They have dwindling budgets, you know.
Speaker 4: I know for a fact my father used to work
Speaker 4: for Nature scut weird enough and the budget that the
Speaker 4: Scottich government set aside to preserve sites like this have
Speaker 4: reduced and reduced and reduced to a point where the
Speaker 4: Scottish government are now encouraging private investment. And part of
Speaker 4: cool links is initiative here is to invest money into
Speaker 4: maintaining this site and getting rid of evasive species. I
Speaker 4: know Americans love gorse, but it's an evasive species. It
Speaker 4: overtakes the links, and there's there's trees on the site,
Speaker 4: there's other evasive species and it's falling into disrepair because
Speaker 4: nobody's putting any proper money into it. And the cool
Speaker 4: Links plan has, you know, investment into that. It has
Speaker 4: investment into public walking paths. The greatest thing about Scotland
Speaker 4: is you know, and they haven't been the right to
Speaker 4: rome everywhere and this this is it like it's not
Speaker 4: gonna be a gated community. This is They've got a
Speaker 4: beautiful beach as it is. You can go in any
Speaker 4: speech in Scotland and it's public and they are encouraging that.
Speaker 4: They're encouraging wildflowers and all that to thrive. So if
Speaker 4: it gets approved that there's a hearing in a couple
Speaker 4: of weeks time, it has the potential to be special.
Speaker 4: It has a potential to be inclusive. And that's what
Speaker 4: I love about Scotland is how inclusive Scottish golf is.
Speaker 4: And yeah, here's open because we know that people involved,
Speaker 4: you know, care deeply and you know Bill Kerr thing
Speaker 4: you've spoken to him. I've actually watched your content and
Speaker 4: Bill talking about this. Bill looks for these landmarks on
Speaker 4: the site and figures out ways to play around it
Speaker 4: and not interfere with it. I mean, make them, make
Speaker 4: them part of the player and experience, but don't ruin
Speaker 4: them that they're they're their interesting subject matters. And I
Speaker 4: don't think the opposition and people that look at golf
Speaker 4: negatively understand that kind of philosophy, which is super frustrating.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I what in terms of if if this passes,
Speaker 1: what would be the POTENTI still timeline for uh playing
Speaker 1: golf there.
Speaker 4: I think it's quite quite quiet. I mean Chris Haspa
Speaker 4: would be the guy, and who we need to answer.
Speaker 4: But I mean, the plans are there, and the growing
Speaker 4: period in Scotland is you know, that's difficult, and we're
Speaker 4: seeing that with some other projects, you know, and I
Speaker 4: know that you're you know, you're quite close to things
Speaker 4: at Cabot Highlands and we have a short growing window
Speaker 4: in Scotland, so that would be a factor. But and
Speaker 4: there's no, there's not a great deal of work to
Speaker 4: be done. You're not moving you know, you're not moving
Speaker 4: thousands of tons of material. As we say, it's gonna
Speaker 4: be a very natural golf course. So I think you'd
Speaker 4: be looking at sort of two two and a half
Speaker 4: years sort of from now where you can look at
Speaker 4: getting something. And you know, I'm not too intimately aware
Speaker 4: of the Kaiser model in terms of you know, the
Speaker 4: the memberships that they hand out in these playing experiences
Speaker 4: that you can have, but I don't see why it
Speaker 4: wouldn't be you know, quite a short period really, given
Speaker 4: that we have a sh or growing season, but the
Speaker 4: actual build and again you're far more educated and what
Speaker 4: goes into building golf courses in the timelines, but you know,
Speaker 4: with with nature kind of not being interrupted too much,
Speaker 4: I don't see why it would take too long. Another
Speaker 4: thing to add theirs is also the fact that we
Speaker 4: mentioned these other golf courses too. That we didn't mention
Speaker 4: were ski Bow, which is kind of a links course there,
Speaker 4: it's a little bit, it's sort of limited play, but
Speaker 4: it's it's a links course, beautiful setting, the home of
Speaker 4: Madonna's famous marriage to Cheyritory. But that's not that through
Speaker 4: that put you off. And then then the news last
Speaker 4: week that Dornuk's second golf course, Destruy, is going on.
Speaker 4: There's some significant course improvements. So a lot of people
Speaker 4: don't realize that Donald's got a second golf course, but
Speaker 4: they do. It's not on the greatest pieces of land,
Speaker 4: but they've purchased new land and they have plans to
Speaker 4: improve that golf course. So I can't tell you how
Speaker 4: how much you know, investment in an opportunity there is
Speaker 4: here in Scotland. I don't think there's ever been greater
Speaker 4: demand for people to come to Scotland. And that's another
Speaker 4: case in this argument is to say, well does Scotland
Speaker 4: need another golf course? That's the opposition saying that, and
Speaker 4: again me and you know that, you know it's not
Speaker 4: Eddie golf courses that Bill Coo or Mike Kyser golf
Speaker 4: course and it's a Lynx course on incredible land. And
Speaker 4: I think dun Barney here in in Saint Andrew's, you know,
Speaker 4: opened up three years ago part of the true golf portfolio,
Speaker 4: and they're already seeing like huge numbers of golfers and
Speaker 4: they've only been open three years. So there's a huge
Speaker 4: demand for golf travel, as you know, Andy, and I
Speaker 4: don't see any scenario where this doesn't become an overnight success.
Speaker 1: Seems like everywhere is sold out, so it's uh, you know,
Speaker 1: I think I think like the big thing is it's
Speaker 1: probably the portion of Scotland that's the least traffic, the
Speaker 1: least discovered, and it's a you know, it even opens
Speaker 1: up presents an opportunity for a reason for a trip
Speaker 1: if Dornick isn't part of your itinerary, which is you know,
Speaker 1: I think that that's the thing that you know, you know,
Speaker 1: Castle Stewart or Cabot Highlands is going to attract a
Speaker 1: lot more uh visitors than in the future than in
Speaker 1: the past, and getting people to just a venture a
Speaker 1: little bit further north would be would be a huge
Speaker 1: win for the greater area. So UH we will follow
Speaker 1: this the story as it as it happens. Rue. Thank
Speaker 1: you for coming on and UH and and giving us
Speaker 1: the insights into what's going on with cool links.
Speaker 4: Cheers any thanks.
Speaker 1: Today's podcast was edited and produced by p J Clark
Speaker 1: PJ Big Thanks. He's he's off to Phoenix this week
Speaker 1: to see the Schwab Cup. It's gonna be fun. Thank
Speaker 1: you guys for listening. We'll be back later this week
Speaker 1: with I think we're into a new another golf architecture
Speaker 1: focused podcast, So we'll be back later this week and
Speaker 1: talk to you soon.