1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:10,400 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's 3 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:16,960 Speaker 2: Chuck and it's just us for now. But Jerry says 4 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 2: she's going to be coming in sooner or later, and 5 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 2: this is stuff you should know. 6 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, Jerry'll come in, probably in our most intense point 7 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 1: when we're talking to each other, and you guys won't 8 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:33,519 Speaker 1: to hear this, but we'll hear, like just full Jerry, 9 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 1: full volume. 10 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 2: We'll hear ourselves echoing because Jerry doesn't like headphones, you 11 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 2: guys recording what's going on. So yeah, when that point comes, 12 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 2: we'll probably edit it out. Who knows, even if we 13 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:50,919 Speaker 2: don't want to edit it out, Jerry might. 14 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 1: Anyway, I saw Jerry yesterday. You know, our daughters go 15 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 1: to school together now, which the public at large doesn't know, 16 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 1: which is kind of fun. And sorry pick up for 17 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 1: the first time this year. 18 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:05,320 Speaker 2: What kind of pickup does she have? 19 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:14,680 Speaker 1: Yeah? S ten? Oh really that's a cyber truck, right. 20 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 2: That's our Jerry cyber truck and visor sunglasses. 21 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 1: No, not at the pickup, but you know, kid, pick up. 22 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 2: I got you, I got youa Yeah. 23 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:23,320 Speaker 1: Fun. 24 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 2: It could have gone either way, and I went the 25 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 2: wrong way. Yeah. So, speaking of Jerry Chuck, there's a 26 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 2: lake high up in the Indian Himalayas. It is extremely remote. 27 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 2: It's extremely high up, and it's it's part of a 28 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:44,120 Speaker 2: mountain called Trissol, one of the highest mountains in India. 29 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 2: And this lake is in a very desolate, very remote area. Essentially, 30 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 2: if you look at a picture of it. Did you 31 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:57,559 Speaker 2: see that picture? He Yeah, it's nuts. It's a lake 32 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 2: that's at the edge of a cliff, at the bottom 33 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 2: of another cliff, way high above like a ridge. It's 34 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 2: just looking at that picture, I'm like, I would fall 35 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 2: off there so hard. I would definitely die there. And 36 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:15,640 Speaker 2: it turns out that if I did die there, it 37 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 2: would be part of a long standing tradition. 38 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 1: That's right. You were speaking of Rupecund Lake RP kun D. 39 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: You mentioned it's high. It's about three times as high 40 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:29,680 Speaker 1: as Denver, Colorado. 41 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 2: Yeah. 42 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 1: You mentioned remote, and you mentioned being in good company 43 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:37,360 Speaker 1: if you died there, because Rupken Lake is well known 44 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 1: for being the Lake of Bones. 45 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 2: Yeah. Apparently locally it's called Skeleton Lake. 46 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: Yeah. 47 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:50,080 Speaker 2: And like I said, it's remote. The nearest village is 48 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 2: a village called Wand. It's a group of traditional houses 49 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 2: I read and it's about it. And the people who 50 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 2: live there apparently take it upon themselves to help out 51 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:03,760 Speaker 2: strangers and travelers who are who find themselves in a 52 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 2: bad way, which is pretty nice. But Wan is only 53 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 2: nineteen miles down about thirty kilometers in the valley below ROOTCND, 54 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 2: which I mean nineteen miles. That's a little bit of 55 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 2: a far peace. But it takes three to five days 56 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 2: to get from Wand to Lake Rupken because the path 57 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 2: is just so treacherous up the mountain. 58 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, it is tough to get there. And again that 59 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 1: three times higher than Denver. The altitude is rough. Root 60 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 1: Can technically is called a tarn, which is an old 61 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: Norse word for pool. But it's a glacial lake. And 62 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 1: if you've ever been to a glacial lake like I have, 63 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 1: and maybe you have. Have you ever been to a 64 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 1: glacial lake, I haven't, they're beautiful. They're really really clear 65 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 1: that water. You can most times you see right down 66 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 1: to the bottom of that lake. You wouldn't have to 67 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 1: look far in this case, because this is a pretty 68 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 1: small one, only about ten feet deep at its widest points, 69 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 1: about one hundred and thirty feet wide, and save August 70 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 1: and September, that thing is basically frozen solid and all 71 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 1: of those which is kind of great in a way 72 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: as far as an archaeological site goes, because all of 73 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 1: the skeletons are really well preserved because they're frozen. You know, 74 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:22,360 Speaker 1: ten twelfths of the year. 75 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:27,720 Speaker 2: Ten twelves, Yeah, ten twelfths. You nailed it. Five six yeah, 76 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:34,039 Speaker 2: exactly two and a half third, eh, boy. So when 77 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 2: that snow and I smelts, though, those skeletons, like you said, 78 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 2: are revealed, and it's not like there's a couple of 79 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:42,479 Speaker 2: skeletons laying around. They've estimated, and these are scientists and 80 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:47,159 Speaker 2: researchers who studied this area, that there's up to eight 81 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:52,360 Speaker 2: hundred individual skeletons in this tiny little lake and scattered 82 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 2: around the shores of the lake. It's a lot, a 83 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 2: lot of dead people, and no one knows who these 84 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 2: people are or how they got there. It's a genuine 85 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 2: historic mystery, one of my favorite historic mysteries of all time. 86 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 2: It's the mystery of the skeletons at Rupken Lake. 87 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:16,599 Speaker 1: Where did you hear about this first? 88 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 2: It was a New Yorker article by Douglas Preston that 89 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 2: I went back and reread. I'm like, man, this is 90 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:25,839 Speaker 2: so good. It's called Skeletons at the Lake. And he 91 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 2: goes off on a bunch of other tangents too, gets 92 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 2: really into like evolutionary genetics and all that, because that's 93 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 2: applied to this particular topic, but he discourses on it way, 94 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 2: way more deeply. It's a really cool article. It's definitely 95 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 2: worth reading. 96 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 1: Awesome. So this has been one of the great natural 97 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:52,159 Speaker 1: mysteries since nineteen forty two, when a gentleman named H. K. Madwall, 98 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: who was a forest official from India, was sent there 99 00:05:56,640 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 1: to gather some Himalayan flowers for research and study. And 100 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:04,039 Speaker 1: he was like, oh my god, look at the bones, 101 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 1: Oh my god, oh my god, as you as you 102 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:10,279 Speaker 1: would say, and reported over you know, the course of 103 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 1: a few years, because again you can only you know, 104 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:15,360 Speaker 1: these things only fall out for a couple of months 105 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 1: over the year. So any kind of study over the years, 106 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:19,479 Speaker 1: and as you'll see, there's been a lot since the 107 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 1: nineteen fifties once scientists got involved, because they kind of 108 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: kept it a secret, or at least kept it quiet 109 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 1: in India for a little while. And eventually when they 110 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 1: announced it in the nineteen fifties, of course science got 111 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 1: on board. But they've got a pretty narrow window to 112 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: go and like actually collect and study this stuff. Like 113 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 1: I mentioned between August and September generally, and it seems 114 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 1: like nineteen fifty six, a couple of weeks in September 115 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 1: there was when a lot of that initial collection took place. Right. 116 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, there were three different expeditions that arrived at the 117 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 2: lake in a two week period in nineteen September nineteen 118 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 2: fifty six, and I saw that. I guess some of 119 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:02,360 Speaker 2: them were unsuccessful, but at least one gathered some artifacts 120 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 2: and some remains and took them back to the Anthropological 121 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 2: Survey of India in Kolcutta, Kolkata which used to be 122 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 2: called Calcutta. 123 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 1: What did they find? 124 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 2: They found dozens of leather slippers, okay, the remains of 125 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 2: parasols made of bamboo and birch, found a lot of rings, 126 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 2: found the remnants of some musical instruments. Yeah, and then 127 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 2: really importantly crucially as we'll find bengals like those bracelets 128 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 2: that your grandmother who really loves gin wars that clink 129 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 2: around all the time. 130 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 1: Not Susanna Hoffs. 131 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 2: Uh is she from Oh no, from the Bengals, that's right, nice? Yeah, No, 132 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 2: or Jane. 133 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 1: Wheeland. No, she was from Widows right. 134 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's who I'm thinking. Sorry Bengals. 135 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: She's a fun following Instagram by the way. 136 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:00,040 Speaker 2: Okay, good to know that. 137 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: Great. So immediately, of course, science is like, all right, 138 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 1: we got to figure this out. This is a great mystery. 139 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 1: We got all these bones here, we don't know who 140 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 1: these people are. So some theories emerged, and we're going 141 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 1: to go over the one, two, three, four, five, six, 142 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 1: seven theories and then bust them apart right after that. 143 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 2: Yeah. 144 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: The first of which is perhaps these were soldiers from 145 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 1: India who may have been trying to get into Tibet 146 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 1: or fleet Tibet over the centuries. They kind of narrowed 147 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 1: it down to one campaign between May and June of 148 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 1: eighteen forty one, which was repelled, and they say this 149 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 1: may have been it, Like they were trying to get 150 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 1: into Tibet. They were repelled, They got the heck out 151 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:46,320 Speaker 1: of there, and then they perished, like a storm called 152 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 1: them or something, and they died here by this lake. 153 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:51,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, because here's the thing, you have to account for 154 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:55,440 Speaker 2: a big group of people who all died simultaneously. It 155 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:59,959 Speaker 2: seems around this lake, right, So like a big tree 156 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 2: of soldiers would certainly fit that bill, and then another 157 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 2: kind of soldiers. So when this was discovered by H. K. 158 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,839 Speaker 2: Madwall in nineteen forty two, World War two was in 159 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 2: full swing and as far as I know, the India 160 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 2: was still administered by the British government. So the people 161 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 2: running the show in India, the Brits running the show 162 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 2: in India, were really concerned about a land invasion of 163 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 2: India by the Japanese in particular, so they worried that 164 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 2: what they had stumbled upon was a a non successful 165 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:34,319 Speaker 2: Japanese invasion of India, which I think is one of 166 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 2: the reasons why they kept it choiet for years. 167 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:39,599 Speaker 1: Okay, well that makes perfect sense, actually sure, because I 168 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 1: wondered about that. Another theory that popped up was maybe 169 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:47,080 Speaker 1: these were just traders. They were Tibetans on the Silk Road, 170 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 1: maybe another trade route that we don't know about yet. 171 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:50,599 Speaker 2: Yeah. 172 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 1: Or maybe they were just villagers who lived nearby and 173 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:57,200 Speaker 1: died of an epidemic and they you know, if you 174 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 1: die of some nasty plague or disease ease. You don't 175 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:03,079 Speaker 1: bear everybody right there where you're living. You kind of 176 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:05,440 Speaker 1: take them away a bit, and maybe that's what that was. 177 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:10,440 Speaker 2: Right. Another theory is, well, there's a bunch of different spots, 178 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 2: sacred spots around India where you would ritually take your 179 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:17,600 Speaker 2: own life, either at self sacrifice or as an act 180 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 2: of devotion to one of the Hindu gods. And they're like, well, 181 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 2: maybe Ruken Lake is one of these lesser known spots 182 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 2: for ritual suicide, and that's what happened to all these people. 183 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:28,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a pretty good one. 184 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 2: What else, there's another one that is pretty low hanging fruit, 185 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 2: but it makes a lot of sense. Somebody spoke up 186 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 2: and said, guys, what if it's just a cemetery. Yeah, 187 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:42,839 Speaker 2: that would explain all the dead people, don't you think. 188 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 1: And everyone was like, oh God, Phil Jesus every time. 189 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, you get us every time. Phil, you can really 190 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 2: see through the clutter. 191 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:54,680 Speaker 1: You know what Phil's nickname is, what low hanging fruit Phil? 192 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 2: That's a great name. 193 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:00,959 Speaker 1: And then finally, after everyone you know, kicked Phil out 194 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:03,079 Speaker 1: of the office and told him to go get everyone coffee, 195 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 1: they said, feels kind of onto something, but Also, what 196 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 1: if it's not like a cemetery per se, but it 197 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 1: was just people. It's now a cemetary because they were 198 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:16,200 Speaker 1: victims of a landslide or something and that's just where 199 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 1: they are now. 200 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's possible. So the problem is is that none 201 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 2: of these theories really fully fit the evidence that they 202 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 2: found at the lake so far. Right now, soldiers, whether 203 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 2: they're Japanese, Indian or any kind, they don't make any 204 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 2: sense because none of the artifacts recovered at the lake 205 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 2: were weapons. They found a single spearhead made of iron, 206 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 2: but of all the artifacts they found, that was the 207 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:45,960 Speaker 2: only thing that could remotely be used as a weapon 208 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:48,959 Speaker 2: at the lake. So if there's a bunch of soldiers 209 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 2: there that died suddenly, their weapons wouldn't have evaporated over time, 210 00:11:53,840 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 2: you'd find something. And then similarly, the Japanese soldiers in particular, 211 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 2: that theory held zero water because there had been an 212 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 2: earlier unofficial sighting by a British climber named TG Long 213 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 2: stuff if you can believe that, yeah, he saw them 214 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 2: first in nineteen oh seven as far as Europeans go, 215 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 2: and so they couldn't possibly have been there because of 216 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 2: World War Two. 217 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 1: That reminds me of the old joke from Rodney Dangerfield 218 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,960 Speaker 1: and Back to School, when'd you come over and help 219 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:28,599 Speaker 1: me straighten out my longfellow? 220 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 2: Yeah? Man, what a great movie. 221 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, I haven't seen that a long time. 222 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 2: I saw that in the theaters. 223 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:36,079 Speaker 1: Did you really? 224 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 2: I totally did. 225 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 1: I don't know if I would have been allowed to. 226 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 1: Is that rated R? That probably wasn't rated R? Was it? 227 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:45,720 Speaker 2: I could see it rated R? My mom took me 228 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 2: if I'm not mistaken. 229 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:51,440 Speaker 1: No, that's sweet. Yeah, I love it the Triple Lindy, 230 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 1: Thanks mom. Yeah. Oh. 231 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 2: There's one other thing that kind of rules out an 232 00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:00,040 Speaker 2: idea because of the lack of weapons. One of the 233 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 2: other theories is that this is a group of victims 234 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 2: of some sort of attack. Somebody raised the idea of 235 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 2: the Thuggies, you remember them, the secret guilt of bandits 236 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 2: in India that may or may not have existed, like Jerry, 237 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 2: but they're like, no, somebody would have dropped their weapons 238 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 2: way more than just one iron spear. Yeah, had these 239 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:23,199 Speaker 2: people been victims of murder? So the soldiers, the violence 240 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 2: at the hands of other humans, that just doesn't really 241 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 2: hold up. 242 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: Doesn't hold up. Silk Road trader first of all, was 243 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:33,320 Speaker 1: not along the Silk Road. That was pretty easy to 244 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 1: rule out, big one. But then there were you know, 245 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 1: of course they earlier had said, yeah, but maybe it's 246 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:40,199 Speaker 1: something like the Silk Road, just a trade route we 247 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 1: didn't know about. They looked and looked, they couldn't find 248 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:47,200 Speaker 1: any traces of a trade route where they were. And 249 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 1: also it was again so rural, so high up there, 250 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 1: they just don't think that was a likely candidate to 251 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:56,319 Speaker 1: be any kind of normal route. 252 00:13:56,559 --> 00:13:59,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, the trader's theory was proposed by the other philm 253 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 2: fact Phil, because anytime he open his mouth, everybody'd take 254 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 2: the fact Phil. Come on, yeah, can we get away 255 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:10,200 Speaker 2: with fact these days? 256 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 1: I think so things have. 257 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 2: Gotten way more risque. All the kids sing about being 258 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 2: high all the time, that's true. 259 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 1: What else, man, Well, the epidemic one sounded pretty good 260 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 1: to me. But they actually can examine those bones forensically 261 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 1: and you know, kind of tell whether that's true or not. 262 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 1: Pretty death definitively. So they did that, they were like, no, 263 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 1: everyone here seemed like they were doing pretty well. No 264 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 1: signs of disease. So that also kind of rules out 265 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 1: the cemetery and burial ground along with the fact that 266 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 1: there were no there were no babies there, there were 267 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 1: no children's remains found. If it was a cemetery, you'd 268 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:50,120 Speaker 1: probably find some of that stuff. 269 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, so I saw both a lot of people very 270 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 2: confidently say that there were babies and children found. Oh really, Yes. 271 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 2: I also saw that other people said there are no 272 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 2: babies or children found. So that's not definitive. I'm not 273 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 2: one hundred percent certain. But just the fact that these 274 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 2: people their age range was like eighteen to thirty five, 275 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 2: and there weren't any very old people at least found 276 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:19,400 Speaker 2: among the remains, you suggest that it wasn't a cemetery too. 277 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 2: So the idea is like none of these initial theories 278 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 2: panned out. They all got shot down boom boom boop, 279 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 2: one after the other. But we're still left with this 280 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 2: huge question, a cliffhanger question. If you ask me, what 281 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 2: is the reason that these skeletons ended up as many 282 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 2: as eight hundred dead people at this tiny little lake 283 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 2: sixteen five hundred feet more than five thousand meters in 284 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 2: the Indian Himalayans. 285 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 1: Should we take a break or you just setting me 286 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 1: up for something. 287 00:15:51,400 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 2: Let's take a break, all right, we'll be right back, So, Chuck, 288 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 2: I don't remember what episode it was in, but we've 289 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 2: talked about geoarchaeological mythological study. There was another another term 290 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 2: for it that was less clumsy, but essentially it's taking 291 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 2: local legends, especially very old local legends, especially among indigenous people, 292 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 2: and assuming that there's some kernel of truth that you know, 293 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 2: the earth opening up and swallowing everybody in a village 294 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 2: might have been some huge earthquake that you know, a 295 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 2: fault line opened at some point, and then they use 296 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 2: that and try to figure out what specific event this 297 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 2: mythology's talking about. Well, it just so happens that there's 298 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 2: a local legend among the people who live around the 299 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 2: Rupcn Lake area that hundreds and hundreds of years ago 300 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:11,600 Speaker 2: there was a traveling group of people who were struck 301 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:16,600 Speaker 2: down because the goddess Nanda Devi was very unhappy with 302 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:20,880 Speaker 2: the way that they were celebrating her or showing their 303 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 2: devotion to her on a long standing pilgrimage to honor 304 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:26,639 Speaker 2: Nanda Debi. 305 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:30,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, so this is a pilgrimage that would be undertaken 306 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:35,119 Speaker 1: every dozen years again to honor that god you spoke of, 307 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:37,920 Speaker 1: Nanda Devi who was we should say, in this case 308 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:44,080 Speaker 1: a manifestation as a mountain from the goddess Parvadi, very 309 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 1: big goddess and the Hindu pantheon, and the goddess of 310 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 1: like a good goddess, goddess of like great things, love, marriage, devotion, beauty, 311 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 1: like all the goodness and kind of levy things. 312 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:58,920 Speaker 2: That's funny. I noticed you left out fertility and children. 313 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's not the goodness. So Pavardi again can embody 314 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:08,639 Speaker 1: a lot of different forms. In this case, it was 315 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:13,040 Speaker 1: a mountain. And so this pilgrimage would take place every 316 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:15,879 Speaker 1: twelve years. And Rupkend is on that route, one of 317 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 1: nineteen stops and the last stop on the way to 318 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 1: the final destination, which is what is it a mountain 319 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:24,920 Speaker 1: called ham Kund. 320 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 2: Well, it's another glacial lake on the other side of 321 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:32,360 Speaker 2: that really treacherous cliff that's above Rupken. 322 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 1: Okay, So this is the final lake before the penultimate lake, 323 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:37,440 Speaker 1: before the final lake. 324 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:41,880 Speaker 2: Right, And so this pilgrimage like this exists. There's one 325 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 2: coming up in twenty twenty six where people who just 326 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:49,679 Speaker 2: haven't undertaken it before travel this incredibly dangerous. They consider 327 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 2: it's the most dangerous pilgrimage in the Hindu religion, and 328 00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:55,919 Speaker 2: a lot of them, sure, a lot of them do 329 00:18:55,960 --> 00:19:00,400 Speaker 2: it barefoot over the course of about three weeks. And 330 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:03,639 Speaker 2: when they get to Rupken, the second last stop, and 331 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:07,359 Speaker 2: they continue on up this very treacherous, scary ridge barefoot 332 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:11,440 Speaker 2: at sixteen thousand feet in elevation, they go down another 333 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 2: thousand feet to hom Kund, where they release a ram 334 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,199 Speaker 2: that they've carried with them, and then the ram is 335 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 2: believed to carry Nanda Devi onward to the home of 336 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:24,960 Speaker 2: Lord Shiva, her consort, who lives just higher up in 337 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:27,680 Speaker 2: the mountain. And then everybody turns around and goes back 338 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 2: down the mountain the way they came. So we know 339 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 2: this pilgrimage actually does exist. It's called the Nanda Devi 340 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:38,879 Speaker 2: raj Yatra. And this local legend says that hundreds of 341 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:43,159 Speaker 2: years ago a king and a queen king yes Sadwal 342 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 2: and Queen Balampa, who were rulers of Kanaj, which is 343 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:51,679 Speaker 2: still around, they undertook this pilgrimage, but they weren't taking 344 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 2: it seriously enough and bad things happen to them. 345 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, earlier when I mentioned sounds like a party 346 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 1: with the parasols and the musical instruments stuff. That's exactly 347 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:05,880 Speaker 1: what the theory holds is that they brought along some 348 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:09,199 Speaker 1: singers and dancers on this pilgrimage. They were having a 349 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 1: good time, and Non de Debi was not too fond 350 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:15,159 Speaker 1: of this approach, did not like this atmosphere, and so 351 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 1: rained hell upon them via giant hailstones and killed everybody. 352 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 1: And that is what that large traveling party was was 353 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:28,360 Speaker 1: people that were killed by a hailstorm as a sort 354 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 1: of revenge from a god who didn't appreciate how this pilgrimage, 355 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 1: the lack of solemnity for this pilgrimage. 356 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 2: Right, So this is a local legend. It's been around 357 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:41,919 Speaker 2: for a very long time. And when the team of 358 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 2: archaeologists who conducted a study in two thousand and four, 359 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 2: I think this was the first actual, like big study 360 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:51,680 Speaker 2: done on what the heck was going on at Rupken Lake. 361 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:55,680 Speaker 2: When they looked into this local lore, they're like, actually, 362 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 2: a lot of the evidence supports this legend. Yeah, So 363 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:01,960 Speaker 2: they started kind of really digging into a little more 364 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 2: and they found that the age range I think I said, 365 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:08,160 Speaker 2: of the people involved were between eighteen and thirty five. 366 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 2: So there weren't any kids, at least from what the 367 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 2: sample they took was, and there weren't any old people, 368 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:18,120 Speaker 2: so you could say, all right, well this is possibly 369 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 2: a royal entourage. It would account for it. The thing 370 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:22,879 Speaker 2: that really kind of gives that away is there it 371 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 2: was evenly split pretty much between male and female, so 372 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 2: we know it wasn't some sort of military party because 373 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,200 Speaker 2: number one, weapons are missing, and number two you would 374 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:35,480 Speaker 2: expect it to be almost exclusively male. And then the 375 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:39,440 Speaker 2: skulls that they sampled bore signs of trauma, like massive 376 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:43,480 Speaker 2: trauma to the skulls that were unhealed, which would strongly 377 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 2: support the idea that this person was killed by a 378 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 2: hailstone and died basically instantly. 379 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:52,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, that was one part of the skull. There were 380 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 1: some other skulls or I guess, some other findings on 381 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:58,359 Speaker 1: those skulls that showed indentations in the same place along 382 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:03,440 Speaker 1: the forehead. And if you have a you know, an assistant, 383 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:05,879 Speaker 1: a local porter, that's like carrying a bunch of heavy stuff. 384 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 1: A lot of times they'll carry things on their backs 385 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:11,440 Speaker 1: but have a strap attached to that thing that goes 386 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:14,199 Speaker 1: around their forehead. And if you been doing that for 387 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:16,920 Speaker 1: long enough, like they would have been, then they might 388 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 1: have these you know, indentations in the same place. So 389 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:22,959 Speaker 1: everything is sort of lining up here. They also carbon 390 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 1: dated the bones between eight hundred and nine hundred CE, 391 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,359 Speaker 1: which would have fit the timeline. So phil is getting 392 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:30,520 Speaker 1: pretty excited at this point. 393 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 2: That's right. There was another, really there's another piece of 394 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:39,400 Speaker 2: really solid, circumstantial evidence that supported the legend. Remember they 395 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 2: found a bunch of Bengals and the remains of parasols. Well, 396 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 2: even still today, Nanda Devi devotas who follows the Nanda 397 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:52,680 Speaker 2: Devi Rojja Yatra, the pilgrimage, I know it's work. They 398 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:57,440 Speaker 2: travel with brightly adorned parasols, and they wear bengals as 399 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:01,800 Speaker 2: part of their devotion to Nanda Devi. And they again 400 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 2: they found a lot of parasols, a lot of bengals. 401 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:07,480 Speaker 2: So it also really strongly suggests that this was a 402 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 2: group of pilgrims who were struck down around the time 403 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 2: that this local legend says this king and Queen's party 404 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:15,880 Speaker 2: was struck down on their pilgrimage. 405 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:18,920 Speaker 1: All right, so you got all this evidence, it all 406 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 1: seems to fit. There was an analysis in two thousand 407 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 1: and four that I think you said that was one 408 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 1: of the first like big studies. And an archaeologist named 409 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:32,120 Speaker 1: Tom Higghem from Oxford University said, Anna, what I think 410 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 1: this is what happened to you guys. It all fits, 411 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: And we do like to follow the lead of the 412 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 1: local folklore because that can often yield, you know, clues 413 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,719 Speaker 1: or hents to a direction, and we think their directions right. 414 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 1: We think hailstorms happen around here in the Himalayas. It's 415 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 1: very likely that this is probably what happened. Like nearby 416 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:57,639 Speaker 1: there have been hailstorms that have killed hundreds of people 417 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 1: and thousands of livestock with dreamely large hail, so we think, 418 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:05,639 Speaker 1: and those were people who could have like sheltered. Even so, 419 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:07,920 Speaker 1: they were like, all right, I think this is it, guys, 420 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:09,920 Speaker 1: let's shut down the science department. 421 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 2: Yeah. The incident you're talking about happened in eighteen eighty 422 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 2: eight killed two hundred and thirty people, and so you 423 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 2: can imagine if these people could run for shelter and 424 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,240 Speaker 2: two hundred and thirty of them still died, a group 425 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,199 Speaker 2: of hundreds of people on a pilgrimage who had no 426 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 2: shelter would have stood zero chance to like giant hailstones 427 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,119 Speaker 2: that would rain down upon them. So the theory is 428 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 2: that these people were killed in a single mass death event. 429 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,439 Speaker 2: They were unlucky enough to get caught out in a sudden, 430 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:46,240 Speaker 2: unexpected hailstorm, and the people in the royal party, the 431 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:50,200 Speaker 2: royal entourage, and their porters were all killed. The thing 432 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 2: that they weren't quite clear on is whether they were 433 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,119 Speaker 2: all killed at the lake or higher up on the 434 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:59,639 Speaker 2: ridge that leads to home Kund. And then eventually their 435 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,440 Speaker 2: bodies were deposited by rock slides down to the lake. 436 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 2: Not one hundred percent clear on that, but it didn't matter. 437 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:08,719 Speaker 2: They felt like they had solved the mystery finally of 438 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,480 Speaker 2: what all these skeletons were doing at Rupkend. 439 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 1: All right, well, let's take our second break here and 440 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 1: we'll come back, because the story's not over, you guys, 441 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:18,159 Speaker 1: and we're going to talk about what happened right after this. 442 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 1: Still all right, So that theory is hanging out there 443 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,440 Speaker 1: in two thousand and four, hangs out for about ten years. 444 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 1: Everyone's feeling pretty good about it. The book is not closed, 445 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:56,119 Speaker 1: but the book is, you know, it's almost closed, sure, 446 00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 1: And then in twenty fourteen. I guess it was Phil 447 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:05,160 Speaker 1: Maybe we should take another look at these samples. Everybody fruitfill. Yeah, 448 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:06,920 Speaker 1: Like things have come a long way in the ten 449 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,640 Speaker 1: years in science, so maybe we could glean something. So 450 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 1: a five year study kicked off in twenty fourteen involving 451 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 1: sixteen labs around the world, and they sampled bones from 452 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:21,720 Speaker 1: thirty eight of those individuals, sent them to all these 453 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 1: labs and got some really really interesting results in that 454 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 1: out of the thirty eight, twenty three belong these are 455 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,920 Speaker 1: all different people. Twenty three belonged to the gene pool 456 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 1: that you would expect to find in that area, you know, 457 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 1: some sort of South Asian ancestry. Fourteen of them had 458 00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 1: zero South Asian DNA, appeared to come from the Mediterranean. 459 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 1: And then there was this one lone person from a 460 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 1: third genetic group, maybe Han Chinese, some sort of East 461 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 1: Asian ancestry, And they're like, who's this guy out of Like, 462 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:57,920 Speaker 1: first of all, why are these people not all the 463 00:26:57,960 --> 00:26:58,520 Speaker 1: same people? 464 00:26:58,720 --> 00:26:58,960 Speaker 2: Right? 465 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 1: Because we can go ahead and throw that theory out 466 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:03,199 Speaker 1: the window, the first theory, because they would have all 467 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 1: been from the same ancestry, So like, why are they 468 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 1: from three different groups? And why is there that one 469 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:10,920 Speaker 1: weirdo just hanging out there by himself. 470 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:14,119 Speaker 2: But also so you could reasonably see a Han Chinese 471 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:18,440 Speaker 2: person eventually making their way over to India via Tibet. 472 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 2: The biggest mystery was what the heck a group of 473 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,920 Speaker 2: people from the Mediterranean were doing all the way up 474 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:28,399 Speaker 2: in the Indian Himalayas at some point did not fit? No, 475 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:32,600 Speaker 2: it didn't. And so these results were quite astounding, as 476 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 2: you can imagine. But you said, I think sixteen different 477 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:39,240 Speaker 2: labs were conducting different kinds of tests, and the other 478 00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 2: labs tests came in and supported what they had found 479 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,880 Speaker 2: about the genetic makeup the ancestry of those groups. One 480 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 2: of the things that they found was that the diets 481 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:53,120 Speaker 2: among the different groups were different, and they actually matched 482 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 2: the ancestry that the genetic testing had revealed. So like 483 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 2: the people from the mediterrane and showed that they were 484 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:04,639 Speaker 2: raised on wheat and barley and rice, which fits a 485 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:09,359 Speaker 2: Mediterranean diet, the people of South Asian ancestry showed that 486 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,160 Speaker 2: they had eaten a lot of millet, which fits their 487 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:16,840 Speaker 2: ancestry as well. So it was clear that these these 488 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:21,239 Speaker 2: were like these findings were true. Like this wasn't just 489 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:23,200 Speaker 2: some weird random anomaly. 490 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:28,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, but it's it's like the mystery is 491 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,720 Speaker 1: just deepened at this point. Yeah, they tried to find 492 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:35,639 Speaker 1: as far as how the Mediterranean people got there. They 493 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:39,360 Speaker 1: looked at other folklore and literature that was like, can 494 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:42,400 Speaker 1: we find anything in here where they're writing about either 495 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,960 Speaker 1: someone from the Mediterranean or a group that was just 496 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,800 Speaker 1: different and exotic, and like maybe it could have been Mediterranean. 497 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 1: They basically struck out on that front. So the mystery 498 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 1: is deeper at this point until we get to our 499 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:06,480 Speaker 1: I guess, greatest reveal when the study revealed that the 500 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:10,680 Speaker 1: skeletons not only were different people from different ancestry, but 501 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:15,280 Speaker 1: within those groups even they came from different eras. Yep. 502 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 2: So remember I said that, like they were originally trying 503 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:23,760 Speaker 2: to account for a single mass death event that accounted 504 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 2: for all of the dead people that the assumption was 505 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 2: they'd all died at once. So not only were these 506 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 2: mystery people from the Mediterranean part of this group, the 507 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:37,560 Speaker 2: groups of people that they studied had died a thousand 508 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,840 Speaker 2: years apart as a matter of fact, so they had 509 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:44,240 Speaker 2: separated them into three groups based on their genetic ancestry. 510 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 2: Rupe and A were the members with South Asian ancestry. 511 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 2: The people who you'd expect to be there Roup can 512 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 2: be were the Mediterranean people. And they looked at their 513 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 2: genetic profile and they get this. They said that the 514 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 2: closest genetic profile around are people who live on Crete, 515 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:05,400 Speaker 2: which is an island south of Greece in the middle 516 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,479 Speaker 2: of the Mediterranean. They didn't they said it. We're not 517 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:10,880 Speaker 2: saying that these people were from Crete, but that's the 518 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 2: closest profile we can find to the people who are 519 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 2: dead up on Rupken Lake. Right. Yeah, those people died 520 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 2: in the eighteenth century, is the best guess they have 521 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 2: based on the carbon dating. The people from Rupken A 522 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,200 Speaker 2: they died between the seventh and the tenth centuries, and 523 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 2: the people in that group didn't even seem to die 524 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:34,040 Speaker 2: at the same time. 525 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 1: That's right. But the Group A that perished sometime between 526 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:42,720 Speaker 1: the seventh and tenth centuries does support if you go 527 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:47,560 Speaker 1: back to that original local legend of King Yazda Waal 528 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 1: and Queen Balampa play love seeing Queen Bolampam. That's a 529 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:57,200 Speaker 1: good one. It does fit with that timeline. But within 530 00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,480 Speaker 1: that group, like you said, they seem to have from 531 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 1: in two separate eras, separated by a couple of hundred years, 532 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 1: So it may not have been one, you know, I 533 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 1: guess it could have been just a smaller royal group. 534 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, that doesn't rule out, and all evidence still supports 535 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:18,200 Speaker 2: that some group from rupkend a group could have been 536 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,959 Speaker 2: that royal entourage that was part of the local legend. 537 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,160 Speaker 2: But because there was one group that died between six 538 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 2: seventy five and seven sixty nine and another group from 539 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,280 Speaker 2: rupkind A that died between eight ninety four and nine 540 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:34,840 Speaker 2: eighty five. See, they like they don't know who is who, 541 00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:37,160 Speaker 2: Like they haven't been able to suss that out and 542 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:40,440 Speaker 2: maybe never will. But this mystery just keeps getting more 543 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:42,960 Speaker 2: and more bizarre. You have a group of mystery people 544 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,160 Speaker 2: who shouldn't be there. You have the fact that different 545 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:50,800 Speaker 2: separate mass death events happened at least three times over 546 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:54,320 Speaker 2: the course of one thousand years, and it's just getting 547 00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 2: weirder and weirder. So the scientists who are conducting this 548 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 2: massive survey or study that actually ran I think from 549 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 2: twenty fourteen to twenty nineteen, they started sending each other 550 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:08,480 Speaker 2: samples of the samples they had to make sure that, 551 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 2: like the people who had tested for what kind of 552 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,200 Speaker 2: diet were working from the same bones that the people 553 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 2: had tested what the genetic profile was of of these people, 554 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 2: and it all came back the same, Like there was 555 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:22,360 Speaker 2: no mix up with the bone powder that was sent 556 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 2: to the different labs. They were all working from the 557 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:29,320 Speaker 2: same samples and so these findings were correct. It just 558 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:33,239 Speaker 2: deepened this mystery and it completely upended what had, like 559 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:37,160 Speaker 2: you said, previously been thought of as a solved mystery generally. 560 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:43,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, I love the idea of the one Randoh Chinese 561 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:47,440 Speaker 1: person because it's sort of jibs with you know, with 562 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:51,000 Speaker 1: just history, how there could be one person that ends 563 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:55,240 Speaker 1: up with another group of people from another place and 564 00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:59,280 Speaker 1: like kind of stays with them. Have you watched the 565 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:00,960 Speaker 1: new show Go series? 566 00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:03,720 Speaker 2: No, but didn't it just rack up at the Emmys? 567 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,040 Speaker 1: It did, And I previously I don't know why it 568 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:10,160 Speaker 1: didn't like get on my radar too much, But after 569 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:11,520 Speaker 1: the Emmys, I was kind of like, oh, you know what, 570 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,040 Speaker 1: maybe I should check this out because I love feudal 571 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:17,720 Speaker 1: Japan and all of that stuff is just like just 572 00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:21,200 Speaker 1: the aesthetic of it and the story, like it's just 573 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,400 Speaker 1: a part of history that I think is super cool. 574 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:26,040 Speaker 1: So I started watching it. I'm like four episodes in 575 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 1: and it's awesome, and you know, the whole notion here 576 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 1: is there's this British guy that ends up in Japan, 577 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:37,280 Speaker 1: like maybe the first British guy in Japan, and is 578 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 1: sort of in a way taken in by these people. 579 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:42,560 Speaker 1: So it's those things happen in history where you would 580 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,160 Speaker 1: get this just kind of single person all of a 581 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:47,680 Speaker 1: sudden ends up on another side of the world because 582 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:51,040 Speaker 1: they discovered some new route with their ship and all 583 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:52,600 Speaker 1: of a sudden they're like, all right, well, I guess 584 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:53,520 Speaker 1: i'd live here now. 585 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:59,040 Speaker 2: Is the British guy played by Matt Damon again? Did 586 00:33:59,040 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 2: he reprise? 587 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:05,760 Speaker 1: But that was a different movie. No, nor was it 588 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:07,560 Speaker 1: Richard Chamberlain who. 589 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:11,560 Speaker 2: Okay, so is this also based on James Clavel's Showgun. 590 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:14,400 Speaker 1: It is. Yeah, it's the original story from that. But 591 00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:16,440 Speaker 1: it's really really good. If you're into that kind of thing, 592 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:17,480 Speaker 1: I think you would like it. 593 00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:20,440 Speaker 2: Okay, I'll check it out. We should also say that 594 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:26,160 Speaker 2: the lone Han Chinese person made up Group C. They 595 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:26,760 Speaker 2: have their own. 596 00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,320 Speaker 1: Group, yeah, group of one like Phil. 597 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,000 Speaker 2: Well, there's two pills, but ones liked and the others disliked. 598 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:36,200 Speaker 2: Actually they're both kind of dislike, but one's really disliked. 599 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:38,360 Speaker 1: Over he's definitely his own group. 600 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:43,000 Speaker 2: So this whole thing, like this mystery is not solved, 601 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:46,920 Speaker 2: This is still ongoing. What we've described and spoken about 602 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:51,320 Speaker 2: is the state of the current understanding or the state 603 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:54,640 Speaker 2: of the current questions about what's going on up at 604 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:58,040 Speaker 2: Rupken Lake or what went on. And so it leads 605 00:34:58,040 --> 00:34:59,640 Speaker 2: to the question like, are we ever going to be 606 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:01,840 Speaker 2: able to solve this? And the answer to that is 607 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:05,959 Speaker 2: there's a good possibility we will because if you think back, 608 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 2: this twenty fourteen to nineteen study was working with the 609 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,319 Speaker 2: bone powder from just thirty eight individuals. Yeah, and there's 610 00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:16,160 Speaker 2: as many as eight hundred individuals up there, So this 611 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,360 Speaker 2: is a really small sample. So as we start like 612 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:23,120 Speaker 2: analyzing more and more of the skeletons, who knows what 613 00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:25,000 Speaker 2: weird data we're going to get back. 614 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:29,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. One of the problems with research at 615 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:32,560 Speaker 1: this spot, well there's a few, but one of them is, 616 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,439 Speaker 1: you know, it became, of course a popular hiking trick 617 00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:40,440 Speaker 1: for like commercial hiking trips, and over the decades, climbers 618 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:42,680 Speaker 1: would go in there, and you know, if you look 619 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:45,120 Speaker 1: up this lake and you'll definitely see bones that are 620 00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:49,839 Speaker 1: arranged and like cairns and like you know, clearly put 621 00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:53,680 Speaker 1: together by the hand of a person much much later. 622 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:58,879 Speaker 1: And so they're they're rearranging things, taking things of them, 623 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:02,759 Speaker 1: like like taking bones and looting artifacts and things like that. 624 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:06,080 Speaker 1: But what happens when you when you rearrange stuff like that, 625 00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:11,520 Speaker 1: like a like a numbskull, it takes away the context. 626 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:14,279 Speaker 1: Who knows if the original like we don't even know 627 00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:16,319 Speaker 1: what the original context would have been or if that 628 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:18,480 Speaker 1: even would have yielded anything, but we know it's not 629 00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:21,799 Speaker 1: going to yield anything now because there's bones arranged, you know, 630 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,240 Speaker 1: like arm wrestling each other and playing football and stuff. 631 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:29,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, like over the top, one of them's wearing legal 632 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:36,880 Speaker 2: warmers on his armbone. Yeah, so yeah, without context a second, 633 00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:42,560 Speaker 2: without context, that means traditional archaeology is sidelined. Right. They 634 00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:44,799 Speaker 2: can't help out at this point. I mean they can 635 00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,560 Speaker 2: to an extent, but like where they really swoop in 636 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:51,760 Speaker 2: and start interpreting things correctly is with context, and without context, 637 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:56,799 Speaker 2: their hands are tied largely. But luckily, as we've seen, 638 00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:01,160 Speaker 2: there's molecular biology, there's evolutionary there's a lot of other 639 00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:04,400 Speaker 2: tools in the toolbox which is constantly expanding that we 640 00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:08,839 Speaker 2: can use to analyze stuff and make pretty good guesses from, 641 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:12,960 Speaker 2: you know, the bones themselves, not necessarily just how they 642 00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:15,319 Speaker 2: were arranged, because like you said, there may have never 643 00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:17,920 Speaker 2: been any kind of real context. There's a lot of 644 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:20,600 Speaker 2: rock slides in the area. There was one as recent 645 00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:23,760 Speaker 2: as two thousand and five that revealed a new body 646 00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:29,000 Speaker 2: that hadn't been found before. So it's possible that these things, 647 00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,799 Speaker 2: these bodies were moved down the mountain over the course 648 00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:35,879 Speaker 2: of a thousand years, maybe even longer. Yeah, so it's 649 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:40,000 Speaker 2: possible that we wouldn't have had any context anyway, and 650 00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:44,960 Speaker 2: it's not just a bunch of jerky mountain climbers who 651 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,040 Speaker 2: were messing with the bones in the ten years that 652 00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:48,799 Speaker 2: you could hike past Rupkin Lake. 653 00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:53,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, my money is on that first theory for some 654 00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:56,759 Speaker 1: of them that entourage because that definitely explains a lot 655 00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:00,520 Speaker 1: of the stuff, the parasols and the bengals and the 656 00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:03,840 Speaker 1: the musical instruments and stuff. And then I think that 657 00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,879 Speaker 1: rock slide thing definitely plays a part because a lot 658 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:09,239 Speaker 1: of bones could have just you know, collected down there 659 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:14,480 Speaker 1: over the centuries. I don't know, like this, this one 660 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:16,040 Speaker 1: doesn't seem to me like there's going to be a 661 00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:20,800 Speaker 1: single definitive explanation, but a combination of explanations. 662 00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,799 Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. I mean, and there's so many ways to 663 00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:27,080 Speaker 2: die up there, like not just has sailstones or rock slides, 664 00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:29,480 Speaker 2: but also just plain old blizzards. Getting lost in a 665 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:32,439 Speaker 2: blizzard and soccumbing to the elements is really easy up there. 666 00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:34,600 Speaker 2: I mean, there's just a lot of ways to die. 667 00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:37,120 Speaker 2: And so yeah, it could be group after group, a 668 00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:41,120 Speaker 2: lot of them on these this pilgrimage that just died 669 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:43,719 Speaker 2: over the years in this one particular spot. It's just 670 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:47,880 Speaker 2: that dangerous. But that still leaves the mystery of what 671 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:52,000 Speaker 2: a group of Mediterraneans, possibly from Cree, we're doing on 672 00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:56,799 Speaker 2: a very i mean outside of Hindu a pretty obscure pilgrimage, 673 00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:58,799 Speaker 2: Like I certainly hadn't heard of it before, and I 674 00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:01,640 Speaker 2: got my finger on the pulse pilgrimages around the world 675 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:04,120 Speaker 2: and I hadn't heard of it. So how did these 676 00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:07,440 Speaker 2: people from the Mediterranean in the eighteenth century end up 677 00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:11,000 Speaker 2: on this pilgrimage that may be a mystery forever, especially 678 00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:14,120 Speaker 2: because there's no legends or folklores associated with it. But 679 00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:16,040 Speaker 2: I think a lot of the questions are going to 680 00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:19,920 Speaker 2: be unlocked because luckily, since the lake itself has frozen 681 00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:23,280 Speaker 2: over ten months of the year, a lot of the 682 00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:27,040 Speaker 2: bodies or skeletons or remains are preserved at the bottom 683 00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:31,440 Speaker 2: of this lake because even when it's like the lake's melted, 684 00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:33,520 Speaker 2: it's really cold and you don't want to go in it. 685 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:35,759 Speaker 2: And so all it's going to take is somebody to 686 00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:41,520 Speaker 2: take a really comprehensive study of the remains in the lake, 687 00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:45,240 Speaker 2: and again, who knows what weird stuff it's going to yield. 688 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:47,799 Speaker 2: It's one to keep an eye on. And I just 689 00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:53,560 Speaker 2: I love this mystery. To me, it being answered is 690 00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:56,560 Speaker 2: preferable to it remaining a mystery, which is kind of 691 00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:59,040 Speaker 2: like the opposite of how a lot of unsolved mysteries 692 00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:01,320 Speaker 2: are actually historic mysteries. 693 00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:04,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. Another good thing on the hope of 694 00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:06,840 Speaker 1: finding something out about this is they did the government 695 00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:11,160 Speaker 1: and did shut down that route to hikers and commercial hiking, 696 00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:14,359 Speaker 1: So like that's it's not gonna be disturbed by those 697 00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:15,760 Speaker 1: knuckleheads anymore. 698 00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:18,480 Speaker 2: No, And I'm guessing because it's a solemn occasion and 699 00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:22,480 Speaker 2: the pilgrims are taking, you know, their pilgrimage. Seriously, they're 700 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:28,080 Speaker 2: probably not much messing with the skeletons that rupkend among 701 00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:30,880 Speaker 2: the pilgrims themselves, So I would think it's now that 702 00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:34,920 Speaker 2: you've done away with the commercial climbers, it's probably fairly 703 00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:35,560 Speaker 2: safe now. 704 00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:36,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, I agreed. 705 00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,120 Speaker 2: Okay, you got anything else about Rupken Lake and the 706 00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:43,919 Speaker 2: mystery of the skeletons. There nothing else I don't either. 707 00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:46,920 Speaker 2: Hopefully you guys enjoyed this as much as I have. 708 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:49,840 Speaker 2: And since I said that, of course it's time for 709 00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:50,600 Speaker 2: listener mail. 710 00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:57,680 Speaker 1: This is just a very sweet appreciative emails. A little long, 711 00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:01,560 Speaker 1: but it's a good episode for this one. Sure, Hey, guys, 712 00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:03,239 Speaker 1: For the sake of brevity, I'll jump straight in. My 713 00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:07,480 Speaker 1: name is Samantha. I'm from Saskatchewan in Canada, and today's 714 00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:10,279 Speaker 1: my thirtieth birthday. Earlier this year, I made a list 715 00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:12,560 Speaker 1: of individuals who, through their work, have greatly impacted my 716 00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:15,120 Speaker 1: worldview and my goal was to write to the top 717 00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:19,160 Speaker 1: thirty people who have influenced my mindset, and you guys 718 00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:22,440 Speaker 1: are on that list. My spouse and I actually only 719 00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:25,440 Speaker 1: only religiously consume your content for about a month out 720 00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:28,200 Speaker 1: of the entire year. During our road trips, you're the 721 00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:30,640 Speaker 1: voices in our car and have been for years now. 722 00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:33,600 Speaker 1: You've explained the Grand Canyon as we drive through Las Vegas, house, 723 00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:36,040 Speaker 1: tsunamis work so you wind down the West Coast, and 724 00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:40,520 Speaker 1: how dopamine works as we drive to Cedar Point Amusement Park. Yeah, 725 00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:42,799 Speaker 1: it's an odd thing. I've almost come to associate your 726 00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:45,759 Speaker 1: voices with my favorite weeks of the year that I 727 00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:48,640 Speaker 1: look forward to, and I simply want to say thanks 728 00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:51,160 Speaker 1: for contributing to those memories in an indirect way. 729 00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:51,880 Speaker 2: That's awesome. 730 00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:55,080 Speaker 1: One comment I made, and you're about to love this part, Josh, 731 00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:57,080 Speaker 1: because get you look pretty good in. 732 00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:58,279 Speaker 2: This new oh Okay. 733 00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:02,520 Speaker 1: Set up to one comment I made in my spouse 734 00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:05,160 Speaker 1: during our most recent road trip to BC this summer 735 00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:08,280 Speaker 1: was how you to speak to each other the complete 736 00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:11,359 Speaker 1: respect and appreciation for each other's personal moments. I can 737 00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:13,320 Speaker 1: it for the life and you remember the exact details. 738 00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:15,440 Speaker 1: But Chuck made some mention in one of the episodes 739 00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:18,520 Speaker 1: about being able to relate to a difficult family environment 740 00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:21,279 Speaker 1: when growing up and the feedback given by Josh was 741 00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:24,520 Speaker 1: in two parts, first to thank him for sharing that 742 00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:27,960 Speaker 1: and to apologize that he went through that as a kid, 743 00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:31,279 Speaker 1: and then to go on to provide commentary and move 744 00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:33,960 Speaker 1: the episode forward. That was one of the many examples 745 00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:36,799 Speaker 1: of you both being stellar, wholesome human beings, and I 746 00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:38,960 Speaker 1: hope the people in your life tell you this often. 747 00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:41,920 Speaker 1: If your audience can see this trait during the episodes, 748 00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:45,640 Speaker 1: I cannot imagine how much more compassionate and empathetic you 749 00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:48,440 Speaker 1: are in everyday life. Well we maybe more so on 750 00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:54,080 Speaker 1: the show. We're not that great. To leave one final sentiment, though, Guys, 751 00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:56,360 Speaker 1: if you ever have days where you grapple with your purpose, 752 00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:59,279 Speaker 1: question whether what you're doing has made an impact, or 753 00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:02,120 Speaker 1: feel the desired to know that what you do carries meaning, 754 00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:04,000 Speaker 1: please know that you have done that for at least 755 00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:07,520 Speaker 1: one person. For that, I cannot thank you enough. Samantha 756 00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:09,920 Speaker 1: Kitzel Kitzel with a Z. 757 00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:13,880 Speaker 2: Oh really even better, Samantha, thank you so much for that. 758 00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:16,000 Speaker 2: We can't tell you how much we appreciate you for 759 00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:19,120 Speaker 2: writing that to us. That means a lot, especially the 760 00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:19,799 Speaker 2: part about me. 761 00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:25,280 Speaker 1: And happy happy birthday, and also hello to your spouse, 762 00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:27,000 Speaker 1: and we look forward to the next road trip. 763 00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:29,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, be safe on your travels, have fun and yes, 764 00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:32,840 Speaker 2: happy birthday. And if you want to be like Samantha 765 00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:34,440 Speaker 2: and get in touch with this, you can do that. 766 00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:38,160 Speaker 2: You can send it via email to stuff Podcasts at 767 00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:42,840 Speaker 2: iHeartRadio dot com. 768 00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:45,840 Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For 769 00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:50,080 Speaker 1: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 770 00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:52,040 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.