Speaker 1: Recently, Q and.
Speaker 2: I sat down to have a very important conversation conversations
Speaker 2: called courageous conversations, and we had this conversation in a
Speaker 2: room full of black men ahead of the election. Now
Speaker 2: we've discussed on this show that you know, black men
Speaker 2: were in the news for a number of reasons because
Speaker 2: of their support of Donald Trump or their lack of
Speaker 2: support for Kamala Harris or whatever. And we finally were
Speaker 2: able to sit down and have it out with a
Speaker 2: room full of black men from all different political backgrounds,
Speaker 2: and we got some perspective on how some people felt.
Speaker 2: We got some information in terms of where some black
Speaker 2: men get their information from and whether or not it's vetted,
Speaker 2: if it comes from far right sources or online.
Speaker 1: Sources or whatever.
Speaker 2: And then we got some, you know, just some opinions,
Speaker 2: and you know, some of the opinions were very similar
Speaker 2: to ours, and some of the opinions were very different
Speaker 2: from ours. And all of this was okay because we
Speaker 2: needed a starting point so that we could continue to
Speaker 2: grow as individual men, but we also could grow our
Speaker 2: cohesion as a group of individuals who have more or
Speaker 2: less similar experiences in this country. So we look at
Speaker 2: that event like it was a positive experience. Indeed, we
Speaker 2: want to do more of them. And one of the
Speaker 2: things that we didn't get to do was answer all
Speaker 2: of the questions that were submitted for us to answer
Speaker 2: as best we could, and so we were given a
Speaker 2: handful of questions after the fact, and we thought that
Speaker 2: we would make this episode addressing some of those questions.
Speaker 2: Some of them we kind of touched on while we
Speaker 2: were there, so we'll, you know, be sure to include
Speaker 2: some of that here and hopefully bring you into the
Speaker 2: conversation that we were able to have on the ground
Speaker 2: during Courageous Conversations. So I'm ramses joh.
Speaker 1: And I am q Ward and glad that we're getting
Speaker 1: a chance to have the conversation because the last thing
Speaker 1: we wanted to do when organizing Courageous Conversations was to
Speaker 1: have a bunch of people leave feeling unhurt, when the
Speaker 1: entire reason that we cultivated that space was that sole
Speaker 1: people in a very non hostile way could have their
Speaker 1: voices heard. So I'm glad we're getting a chance to
Speaker 1: sit down and do this.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, our first question, we're not going to say
Speaker 2: the names of the people who submitted the questions, just
Speaker 2: because the nature of the Courageous Conversations event was very private.
Speaker 2: There was no media coverage. It was just us and
Speaker 2: some black men and getting some perspective. But the first
Speaker 2: question asks us, are we voting based on skin tone
Speaker 2: or actual tangibles that.
Speaker 1: Can be produced?
Speaker 2: And we hold the politicians accountable? And what's our plan
Speaker 2: to hold them accountable?
Speaker 1: Great question. I think it's a fantastic question, and I
Speaker 1: want to because we're not sitting face to face with
Speaker 1: the person, I want to try to translate what I
Speaker 1: think they mean. And then all we can do is
Speaker 1: give insight how we view this and answer according to
Speaker 1: how we feel. So it's not the gospel, according to
Speaker 1: Civic Cipher, it's just our position on the question are
Speaker 1: we voting based on skin tone? That I think is
Speaker 1: a fair question to ask. I think an important thing
Speaker 1: to point out is that for the history of the
Speaker 1: United States, black people have had to deal with being
Speaker 1: under the thumb or under the boot of the oppressor.
Speaker 1: We've been manipulated, we've been taken advantage of, we've been
Speaker 1: taken for granted. We've been made to feel we don't matter,
Speaker 1: we've been forgotten about, we've been the list goes on
Speaker 1: and on, and one thing we don't like is being
Speaker 1: put in a position where we feel like we're being
Speaker 1: pandered to, where we're being used, where people are kind
Speaker 1: of using blackness as a token that they can just
Speaker 1: cash in in a lot of cases simply by being black.
Speaker 1: So I understand why that challenge is presented. The thing
Speaker 1: that often troubles me in cases like this one, or
Speaker 1: in this case specifically, as that our vote in this
Speaker 1: particular election, this is not a vacuum. It's not just
Speaker 1: are we voting for this candidate. It is, as we've
Speaker 1: echoed on the show multiple times, a zero sum, binary decision.
Speaker 1: At this point, there are two candidates and one of
Speaker 1: them will be president, whether we participate or not, whether
Speaker 1: we disqualify one candidate because they're black or not. And
Speaker 1: there is one person in this race who has been
Speaker 1: president before. As much as people try to make it
Speaker 1: seem as if Vice President Harris is the president now,
Speaker 1: she's not former President Trump. However, we got four years
Speaker 1: of that, and I've heard people say they don't know
Speaker 1: enough about Vice President Harris's policies. Will get to that shortly,
Speaker 1: but we know a lot about former President Trump's policies.
Speaker 1: I know a lot of people saying, we don't know
Speaker 1: enough about Vice President Harris as a candidate or as
Speaker 1: a person, but we know a lot about former President Trump.
Speaker 1: So is this a vote for her simply because of
Speaker 1: her skin tone or I'm guessing because she's black? No,
Speaker 1: but I'm black, and I know what this experience in
Speaker 1: this country will be like for me if the other
Speaker 1: candidate becomes president, and that colors. Forgive my use of
Speaker 1: that term, but that color is the way I see
Speaker 1: the decision making process in this election. As far as accountability,
Speaker 1: the way that we most actively hold our elected officials
Speaker 1: accountable in this case is by first exercising our vote.
Speaker 1: And I know that sounds counter intuitive, right. If I've
Speaker 1: already voted from they already got what they want. It
Speaker 1: will again we have to talk about the two candidates
Speaker 1: that are present. With one of these candidates, Ramses and
Speaker 1: I can turn on our microphones and disagree with her
Speaker 1: all the time. We can point out her flaws and
Speaker 1: her mistakes. We can even incorrectly point out her flaws
Speaker 1: and mistakes and then learn more and then come back
Speaker 1: and have to apologize to her. Have we done that?
Speaker 1: We can continue to exercise our right. The next time
Speaker 1: the calendar says it should be time to vote again,
Speaker 1: we get to vote again. We can start organizing and
Speaker 1: having conversations as a collective community now so that we
Speaker 1: can flex not just our vote, but our money and
Speaker 1: our voices collectively as a community to hold our elected
Speaker 1: officials accountable. We will not wait until the next time.
Speaker 1: The election is now right in front of us to
Speaker 1: start talking about accountability. Right. A lot of things that
Speaker 1: we wait until election time to discuss and to try
Speaker 1: to exercise, we don't realize that at that point it's
Speaker 1: too late, right. So, I know it seems backwards. You
Speaker 1: know that you would take the test and then learn
Speaker 1: the lesson, But in this case, that's how it works.
Speaker 1: You vote so that you can vote again. You vote
Speaker 1: so that you can disagree. You vote so that you
Speaker 1: can organize an attempt to hold accountable. One of these
Speaker 1: candidates plans to make all of the above illegal. He
Speaker 1: has already started to refer to me because maybe you
Speaker 1: agree with him, but he's already started to refer to
Speaker 1: me and those of us that don't agree with him
Speaker 1: as the enemy with from within who he can weaponize police,
Speaker 1: and military against. He's already pointed out people who are
Speaker 1: political enemies of his who he plans to seek out
Speaker 1: revenge on. He's already talked about, or not even just
Speaker 1: talked about, but helped push and encourage allies of his
Speaker 1: to get rid of reproductive freedoms for our mothers, our sisters,
Speaker 1: our daughters, our wives. He's already shown us that he
Speaker 1: wants to be a dictator. His word is not mine.
Speaker 1: He's already said to his followers, to his people, to
Speaker 1: his congregation, that you'll no longer have to vote because
Speaker 1: we're going to fix it. So he said a lot
Speaker 1: about the type of man and the type of president
Speaker 1: that he wants to be. We know about how he
Speaker 1: views women in general, the things he thinks he's allowed
Speaker 1: to do that to them, just because we've heard him
Speaker 1: say that he's going to do things that are not
Speaker 1: popular with women, and that he does not care about
Speaker 1: that either. So we know a lot about who we're
Speaker 1: voting for and what we're up against. And I think
Speaker 1: those are things that we should consider from both parties
Speaker 1: before we decide to just simply disqualified one candidate while
Speaker 1: holding her to levels of scrutiny that the other couldn't
Speaker 1: stand up to for five minutes, we've now drug her
Speaker 1: through for months. I hate to take up all of
Speaker 1: the oxygen on this question, but it's a talking point
Speaker 1: that we've seen before where people are deciding we're not
Speaker 1: going to vote for her just because she's black. And
Speaker 1: that's fair, but when you see what she's up against,
Speaker 1: this should not for those of us you know, who
Speaker 1: share that skin tone be a hard decision because it's
Speaker 1: not because she's black. It's the if. We're talking about policies,
Speaker 1: and again there's more questions about that, so I don't
Speaker 1: want to speak too much on the policy part because
Speaker 1: there's more coming up. But look at the other candidate.
Speaker 1: Find me a single redeeming quality, and I would love
Speaker 1: to continue this conversation with regard to skin tone.
Speaker 2: I think that was well stated. Next question, let me
Speaker 2: find this one. Okay, policies, you have the foresight, What
Speaker 2: are the policies and issues of either candidate that actually
Speaker 2: serves us and is in our best interest? Is our
Speaker 2: best interest individualized or as a collective? Okay, I'll try
Speaker 2: to take this one first off, for a person that
Speaker 2: sincerely wants to know what it is that these individual
Speaker 2: candidates policies are. That is something that you don't need
Speaker 2: us to articulate for you. That is something that's very googleable.
Speaker 2: You can you know, you can find that out on
Speaker 2: your own. But we have had a chance to become
Speaker 2: familiar with Project twenty twenty five. And even though Donald
Speaker 2: Trump has attempted to distance himself from Project twenty twenty five,
Speaker 2: which we know better, some of us do some of
Speaker 2: us know better. Yeah, but he's he also has it's
Speaker 2: called Agenda forty seven. So if you are the sort
Speaker 2: of person that still believes Donald Trump, you can look
Speaker 2: at what he has up as Agenda forty seven and
Speaker 2: a lot of it is stuff that you would find
Speaker 2: in Project twenty twenty five as well. Kamala Harris has
Speaker 2: it's referred to as an opportunity economy. This is basically
Speaker 2: her strategy.
Speaker 1: It's just one of her strategies. By the way, right
Speaker 1: you go to Kamala Harris dot com. She has a
Speaker 1: chapter by chapter breakdown in the execy policy that she
Speaker 1: plans to put into legislation and law exactly. So, like
Speaker 1: Rama said, if you really want that information, you can
Speaker 1: very easily go search it out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they made it very simple and in terms of
Speaker 2: the policies of Kamala Harris, how she wants to ensure
Speaker 2: that black men have money to start businesses, understands the
Speaker 2: inequalities that black people face, and so far as housing
Speaker 2: is concerned, you know, one of the things that you
Speaker 2: know she takes about for is the cost cap on insulin,
Speaker 2: which is something that has disproportionately affected you know, black
Speaker 2: households over the years. And then you know the other
Speaker 2: forward thinking, more progressive things that she has identified that
Speaker 2: will benefit black men. Not exclusively, of course, it doesn't
Speaker 2: work that way, but these are areas where it will
Speaker 2: make more of an impact for Black Americans than maybe
Speaker 2: some historical legislation has. It's kind of like she reverse
Speaker 2: engineered it. She looked at the areas that impact us
Speaker 2: most and then developed policy to speak to those areas,
Speaker 2: and then they ultimately translate into more prosperity in black
Speaker 2: and brown communities. But it's, of course it's not exclusively.
Speaker 2: This is America, the United States of America. So so anyway,
Speaker 2: the short of it is that all of those are there,
Speaker 2: and they're well documented, and you know, you're welcome to
Speaker 2: check all of those things out. Another thing I want
Speaker 2: to add right here is that historically Black people have
Speaker 2: voted for more progressive, more liberal policies and candidates because
Speaker 2: they have tended to serve us well, you know, the
Speaker 2: You can look at the Civil rights movement, you could
Speaker 2: look at affirmative action, you could look at the SNAP
Speaker 2: program and assistance you know, for for families that are
Speaker 2: enduring you know, poverty.
Speaker 1: You can look at.
Speaker 2: Anti discriminatory legislation that's being passed, that's been passed historically.
Speaker 2: That stuff has has historically come from the more progressive
Speaker 2: facet of this country. I'm saying Democrats. And so when
Speaker 2: you look at it long term and you look at
Speaker 2: what has been done for Black people historically, granted it
Speaker 2: might not be everything, it might not be everything that
Speaker 2: you want in this moment. Progress is slow on the
Speaker 2: scale of a country. But for folks that feel like
Speaker 2: we're just throwing our vote away every time, I feel
Speaker 2: like we have a lot of evidence to the contrary.
Speaker 2: We can look back and see the progress. And if
Speaker 2: you feel like you're throwing your vote away for your
Speaker 2: own self or for your own lifetime, then you're ignoring
Speaker 2: the fact that you might have kids or grandkids or
Speaker 2: nephews and nieces or grand nephews and nieces that we'll
Speaker 2: have to inherit this world, and your vote could shape
Speaker 2: their lives, because indeed, people that live before me, her
Speaker 2: votes shape the life that I'm living right now. And so, yes,
Speaker 2: progress can be very slow. But you know, for folks
Speaker 2: that feel like, you know, we're throwing our votes away
Speaker 2: because we're voting for Democrats again, you know, I I
Speaker 2: challenge that. I challenge that narrative, you know, And I'm
Speaker 2: not telling you to vote any certain type of way
Speaker 2: in this moment. Other moments I would I what I
Speaker 2: rather would say in this moment is that to not
Speaker 2: vote is like there's only one way to engage in
Speaker 2: a democracy, and for you to not engage, it's that's
Speaker 2: not how democracy works. No one looks at the person
Speaker 2: that didn't vote and says, oh my gosh, we should
Speaker 2: be doing more to get his.
Speaker 1: Vote or her vote.
Speaker 2: Rather, they look at the people who voted and how
Speaker 2: they voted, and then they shape policy according to that.
Speaker 2: So and for anyone that says, you know that they
Speaker 2: don't want to vote, or you know, voting a certain ways,
Speaker 2: throwing your vote away, I would push back against that.
Speaker 1: But you just planted a seat in my head that
Speaker 1: I had not articulated prior. The reason why it has
Speaker 1: become so popular to be so conspicuously and vehemently racist
Speaker 1: is because a certain candidate noticed that's a good way
Speaker 1: to be elected. A lot of people voted to support
Speaker 1: that rhetoric, so he's tripled down on it. And you
Speaker 1: just said that right now, and it kind of sparked
Speaker 1: a thought like, Wow, that's why they're candidates all over
Speaker 1: the country now marching to that same tomb because they
Speaker 1: saw people come out in numbers and vote that waste,
Speaker 1: so they voted according to that, not contrary to it.
Speaker 1: So that's a really brilliant point that you made. No
Speaker 1: one says to the people who aren't participating, let me
Speaker 1: do more for you. It's never worked that way. But
Speaker 1: you saying that right now just made that very clear
Speaker 1: in my head. Thanks.
Speaker 2: I have something that I think is going to spark
Speaker 2: a thought in your head too, because the second part
Speaker 2: of this question is is our best interest individualized or
Speaker 2: as a collective? And I think that I want you
Speaker 2: to take the last, you know, the last word on
Speaker 2: this one.
Speaker 1: But I think that.
Speaker 2: It's all about your own personal philosophy.
Speaker 1: I say that.
Speaker 2: If you're asking the question of black people in general,
Speaker 2: if our best interest is individualized or collective, then the
Speaker 2: answer is in the question. It's collective. You're talking to
Speaker 2: black people. We have collective interests that we need to
Speaker 2: address before we can deal with individual interests.
Speaker 1: Right. But there are some people who really feel like.
Speaker 2: You got the same twenty four hours in your day
Speaker 2: as I got in mind, I get off my couch,
Speaker 2: I get out there a hustle one, I get to it,
Speaker 2: and I got some to show for myself. Don't come
Speaker 2: knocking on my door with a handout when you ain't
Speaker 2: did the work that I did with the same twenty
Speaker 2: four hours.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: There are people who feel that way, and I think
Speaker 2: that that is a personality type. In fact, there's evidence
Speaker 2: to show that that's a personality type.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: And then there's people and I've said this before on
Speaker 2: the show, and you know Q's gonna be familiar with
Speaker 2: this story, but there's people like me who recognize that
Speaker 2: everybody works hard, not just that one person. Most everybody
Speaker 2: works hard. Everybody gets up off the couch and they
Speaker 2: go to work and whatever, and they no matter what
Speaker 2: they do, they can't seem to get ahead or even
Speaker 2: get a fair shot. So it's not hard work. Some
Speaker 2: people feel like they studied harder in school. No, everybody
Speaker 2: is in school to learn, you know, for the most part,
Speaker 2: you know everybody. There's people that think that everybody has
Speaker 2: the same access to the same material. Okay, cool, what
Speaker 2: There's a lot of people that feel that. And then
Speaker 2: there's people like me who I got the worst story
Speaker 2: that you could have. I came from the worst city
Speaker 2: at the worst time and the worst circumstances, with both
Speaker 2: parents on dope, rats and roaches in the food.
Speaker 1: Of my house.
Speaker 2: People coming after my parents, people coming after you know
Speaker 2: what I'm saying. People dying on a sidewalk in front
Speaker 2: of my house. People I knew dead, a human body,
Speaker 2: a human form laying twisted on the sidewalk in an
Speaker 2: unnatural shape. Saw it as a little kid. That's where
Speaker 2: I come from, and right now I speak on this
Speaker 2: microphone to the whole United States of America. I worked hard, Sure,
Speaker 2: I'm smart, Sure, but I don't work harder than other people.
Speaker 2: I am not smarter than other people. I got lucky,
Speaker 2: that's it. So for me, I feel like if I
Speaker 2: look at things like it should be individual like, I
Speaker 2: work hard and I got what I need, So that's
Speaker 2: sawing me. The rest of y'all figure it out. I'll
Speaker 2: be bogused if I thought about things like that. I'm
Speaker 2: not saying other people are bogus. I'm saying my personality
Speaker 2: isn't that way. I recognize that I'm lucky. I recognize
Speaker 2: that I'm you might use the word blessed, whatever, And
Speaker 2: I do my best to share opportunities and share platforms,
Speaker 2: and share time and space and energy and bandwidth so
Speaker 2: that other people could have access to it too. That's
Speaker 2: how I feel. I feel that way about black people.
Speaker 2: I'm black, so I feel that way about black people.
Speaker 2: I feel that way about gay people. I feel that
Speaker 2: way about marginalized people, feel that way about women. I
Speaker 2: feel like anybody is born with a little bit of
Speaker 2: a strike against you. Sometimes that looks like white men too,
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying. But I'm here to impart
Speaker 2: love and bring some equity and some balance to the universe.
Speaker 2: So you know, you decide what's right for you. But
Speaker 2: Q has he has a philosophy that I think sums
Speaker 2: it up a little bit better. You don't have to
Speaker 2: lean into that right now because I know we got
Speaker 2: more questions, but I do want you to get the
Speaker 2: last word because that's that part of the question reminded
Speaker 2: me of you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know that I have a philosophy that
Speaker 1: leans into a better I think the way that you
Speaker 1: articulated that was masterful, and wish more people thought the
Speaker 1: way that you did in a collective sense of I
Speaker 1: don't have everything I have because I'm better than you, God,
Speaker 1: the universe, luck, some teacher, some mentor helped me. And
Speaker 1: who am I to not pay that forward to the
Speaker 1: next person who They've done this masterful thing of pitting
Speaker 1: us against one another with that mindset right that the
Speaker 1: other person that doesn't have it's because they're lazy, so
Speaker 1: why would you help them? And once that seat is planted,
Speaker 1: it just grows. And it's an unfortunate truth because I
Speaker 1: think all of our nature should be to want to
Speaker 1: help one another, to share, to want there to be
Speaker 1: a collective. But it's tough, man. It's tough to be
Speaker 1: black in this country period. That's a whole thought. But
Speaker 1: when you have to consider the fact that we are diverse,
Speaker 1: because not all black comes from West Africa, some from
Speaker 1: the West Indies, some from South America, some from places
Speaker 1: all over the world, and you make it to this
Speaker 1: country and you're just squeezed into black And I hear
Speaker 1: black people often very proudly declare that we are not
Speaker 1: a monolith. And we have to declare that because there
Speaker 1: are those who want to squeeze us into this box
Speaker 1: and make us stay there. But in not being a monolith,
Speaker 1: there is some vulnerability there. Right. We often do not
Speaker 1: come to the table with a collective push. We often
Speaker 1: don't come to the table asking for a collective outcome
Speaker 1: or demanding a collective outcome. And in this masterful ability
Speaker 1: for the oppressors to divide us, and by us, I
Speaker 1: don't just mean black people, black people, immigrants, women, poor people. Collectively,
Speaker 1: we will be far greater than those that oppress us.
Speaker 1: But they've made it less clear to us that we
Speaker 1: should be united on so many things. And I'm going
Speaker 1: to take this into our next question because there's some
Speaker 1: similar language as black men. What are our non negotiables
Speaker 1: and what are issues other than criminal justice reform that
Speaker 1: we should vote on together locally and nationally. And I
Speaker 1: brought this into this same question, because that together parts
Speaker 1: spoke to that collective criminal justice reform is a very
Speaker 1: very loud one because we watch how that ended heps
Speaker 1: Us on the news, We watch our bodies laid out
Speaker 1: and our mothers mourning and crying, and our funerals, and
Speaker 1: so that is a big one. And ultimately, Ramsey, that's
Speaker 1: a good place to stop, not because we don't need more.
Speaker 1: But again, if we start to list all of our issues,
Speaker 1: we're going to have one issue that's very important to
Speaker 1: some people and not others. We realize that the more
Speaker 1: issues that we put on the table that are important,
Speaker 1: the more places we have to disagree, and that disagreement,
Speaker 1: that disagreement has us arguing with each other over what's
Speaker 1: most important instead of colacing around an issue and pushing
Speaker 1: it forward. This issue of criminal justice reformance on the
Speaker 1: table right now, they're already actively trying to bring forward
Speaker 1: policies that were into George Floyd Act that didn't get
Speaker 1: pushed through collectively, but have taken pieces of it. Okay,
Speaker 1: let's give us a little bit on this, and give
Speaker 1: us a little bit more on this, and again, these
Speaker 1: are things that can be researched easily, so we want
Speaker 1: to speak more to how you guys feel, rather than
Speaker 1: trying to lay out absolute lines of policy only because
Speaker 1: we don't have enough time. Reach out to us as
Speaker 1: a resource. We will point you in the right direction.
Speaker 1: We will send you links. We will send you scholarly reports.
Speaker 1: We will send you accurate, reputable, verified data. Civic cipher doctor,
Speaker 1: civic sideher on all social media platforms. Trust me, we respond.
Speaker 1: So dm us, email us, click any of the links
Speaker 1: you will reach us. But collectively having these conversations with
Speaker 1: each other starting November sixth, so that the next time
Speaker 1: we're ready to vote, we've already had these conversations. We're
Speaker 1: already educated. We already know the things that will impact
Speaker 1: us as a collective. Most you know, from criminal justice
Speaker 1: reform to social programmings that would actually cut into crime
Speaker 1: instead of giving us more police officers with bigger guns
Speaker 1: and better tanks and better shields and better body armor.
Speaker 1: We know because the data tails us that does not
Speaker 1: affect the crime rate in our communities, not in a
Speaker 1: way that's positive for us. Right the police get more money,
Speaker 1: they can arrest more people. It doesn't. And by arresting
Speaker 1: more people, you can say that black people committed more
Speaker 1: crime and then demand and justify a greater budget the
Speaker 1: following year. But we know better, right, So again, in
Speaker 1: this election, we have a candidate who wants to get
Speaker 1: rid of the Department of Education. Who do you guys
Speaker 1: think that's going to affect the most, the people that
Speaker 1: go to private school or the people that go to
Speaker 1: public school. Right, So these things are far less complicated
Speaker 1: than we want them to be. But again, man, black
Speaker 1: people have had it hard in this country. Some of
Speaker 1: us do believe that our voices aren't heard, that our
Speaker 1: prayers aren't answered, that our votes don't count. And when
Speaker 1: you're disenfranchised and discouraged, and you're hurt and disappointed and
Speaker 1: killed and arrested over and over again, you do get
Speaker 1: this radical pushback in you that'll make you look at
Speaker 1: something that is obviously positive for you and wrap your
Speaker 1: mind around that not being the case. Right, Like this
Speaker 1: black woman that looks like your aunt or your sister
Speaker 1: or your mom running for president and you think and
Speaker 1: not as too obvious, that looks too much like right,
Speaker 1: so it must be wrong. So no, I'm good. I
Speaker 1: cannot vote for her just because she's black. Well what
Speaker 1: about because you're black? And what the policies that she
Speaker 1: wants to push forward will do for your everyday life
Speaker 1: and those that that look like you and those that
Speaker 1: you care about specifically.
Speaker 2: I want to add another couple of things here too,
Speaker 2: because again, as black men, what are our non negotiables
Speaker 2: and what are the issues other than criminal justice reformed
Speaker 2: that we should vote on together locally and nationally. That's
Speaker 2: a list that includes a lot of different things. These
Speaker 2: are things we talk about on the show quite a bit,
Speaker 2: and of course the list goes on, but some of
Speaker 2: the more important ones that I believe is restorative economic
Speaker 2: justice for Black people in this country. Healthcare we need,
Speaker 2: We need access to too, healthcare that is that prioritizes
Speaker 2: us the same way it prioritizes our Caucasian brothers and sisters,
Speaker 2: especially our women. Other causes include housing discrimination. If that
Speaker 2: doesn't affect you, it doesn't mean that it does not
Speaker 2: affect other Black people in this country. Housing discrimination is
Speaker 2: a big deal, and if you need a deep dive,
Speaker 2: I know John Oliver has done a deep dive on that.
Speaker 2: For those that have access to the internet elsewhere, you
Speaker 2: can check out a whole breakdown on YouTube if you want.
Speaker 1: To see how deep that rabbit hole goes.
Speaker 2: Environmental racism, and I employ you to research that. That
Speaker 2: is something. Again, if you don't live in an environment
Speaker 2: where environmental racism affects you, it does not mean it
Speaker 2: doesn't affect poor black and brown communities around the country.
Speaker 2: And this list, it goes on and on, and you know,
Speaker 2: there's always going to be a number of causes that
Speaker 2: we can get behind. But I think Q said it best.
Speaker 2: You know, once we have an idea of something that
Speaker 2: affects most of us and we can all get behind
Speaker 2: that one thing and there's some momentum there, then we
Speaker 2: are we are stronger in that moment than when we
Speaker 2: are fighting about Well listen, I'm on this path for
Speaker 2: this certain kind of restorative justice, and then everyone else
Speaker 2: is on this other path. No, you know, q Q
Speaker 2: has this great analogy where he holds his hand out
Speaker 2: like it's a flat palm, and he says, it's really
Speaker 2: easy to break my fingers and render my hand useless
Speaker 2: when my hand is like this, And then when he
Speaker 2: coalesces his fingers into a fist, he says, it's a
Speaker 2: lot harder to break my fingers and to render my
Speaker 2: hand useless when it's closed into a fist, and all
Speaker 2: of my fingers are kind of, you know, collapsed in
Speaker 2: on each other. And there's a singular mission.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I know that was a little wordy, but I'm trying
Speaker 2: to describe it for people listening. In any event, hopefully
Speaker 2: you could see that visual visually and understand what that meant.
Speaker 2: But yeah, there's always going to be a number of issues,
Speaker 2: and even when we resolve the issues that we have,
Speaker 2: there's still going to be more issues. White people have issues,
Speaker 2: Hispanic people have issues, you know, and no matter how
Speaker 2: many of you solve, and it's in a complex society,
Speaker 2: there's going to be more issues. And we want The
Speaker 2: thing is us getting on the same page in terms
Speaker 2: of how to be effectives as a voting group and
Speaker 2: as a group who are citizens of this country, contribute
Speaker 2: value to this country, who are endowed with consciousness from
Speaker 2: our common creator, with certain inalienable rights and alienable rightsalienable.
Speaker 1: Thank you, I'll be talking anyway. You know.
Speaker 2: Us getting on the same page in terms of strategy
Speaker 2: is probably the uh, the first order of business.
Speaker 1: All right? Uh?
Speaker 2: Is it true the Democrats haven't fulfilled their promises to
Speaker 2: make us as a race of sorry, have fulfilled their
Speaker 2: promises to us as a race of people. However, that
Speaker 2: would make a black man vote for the Republican candidate.
Speaker 2: So these questions are we're reading them as they were written,
Speaker 2: so we've got to translate.
Speaker 1: It's a great question, I think the question. I think
Speaker 1: it's important to point out that this would be a
Speaker 1: true This would be true across the board for either party,
Speaker 1: to any group of people. Every politician in my lifetime
Speaker 1: has ran a race to be president, governor, mayor city
Speaker 1: council person on a platform of promises. But because of
Speaker 1: the way government works, you don't get to get elected
Speaker 1: to office and then walk into a room and say, hey,
Speaker 1: all those things I said I was going to do,
Speaker 1: do them, and then press go and they just happen. Right.
Speaker 1: Their branches of government have to agree on certain things.
Speaker 1: You have to have a majority in a lot of
Speaker 1: cases to get legislation that you want pushed forward. Some
Speaker 1: people may oppose you because they ideologically disagree with you.
Speaker 1: Some people will oppose you because the people who funded
Speaker 1: their campaign have a different interest in that right. The
Speaker 1: reason why it feels like we are the only group
Speaker 1: who is always forgotten is again, because we need more
Speaker 1: than everybody else needs. And in this country, if we're
Speaker 1: speaking specifically, you know black people and white people. Black
Speaker 1: people need more from our government than white people do.
Speaker 1: And I know we don't like to be put in
Speaker 1: a position where we're quote unquote playing victim, but it's
Speaker 1: just the history of our country. They gave us the
Speaker 1: opposite of a head start by a lot. So when
Speaker 1: you talk about restorative economic justice or what you may
Speaker 1: have heard people call reparations, is because we didn't just
Speaker 1: have a hard go at this. You know, we had
Speaker 1: to start this.
Speaker 2: Game way behind the starting line, and then when the bush,
Speaker 2: several times.
Speaker 1: We got and we continue to get pushed back. And
Speaker 1: not only did the other team not start at the
Speaker 1: starting line, they had a head start. So the deficit
Speaker 1: is massive. However, this goes back to the conversation that
Speaker 1: we kind of started already. We are splintered into things
Speaker 1: that we want those who oppose us. I'll do you
Speaker 1: one better. I use this. We spoke somewhere publicly recently
Speaker 1: and I brought this up and I'm only trying to
Speaker 1: say it faster because we got a bunch of questions
Speaker 1: and I want to get to as many of them
Speaker 1: as we can before we don't have enough time. White
Speaker 1: supremacist have a singular thing that they've united on. White
Speaker 1: Christian nationally in this country have decided that minorities and
Speaker 1: women are less than human. They deserve less rights, they
Speaker 1: deserve less of a voice, they should not even be
Speaker 1: allowed to participate in this thing. We're the smarter, and
Speaker 1: by we, I'm speaking as them. We're the smarter, stronger,
Speaker 1: more powerful class of people. And you know, we'll make
Speaker 1: the decisions that are best for everyone, and they should
Speaker 1: trust us to do that. And the world would be
Speaker 1: a better place if we were the only ones that
Speaker 1: made all of the choices and did what was best
Speaker 1: for us. And rich white Christian nationalists heterosexual men have
Speaker 1: convinced homosexual white men, white women, white poor people, white
Speaker 1: that the white part is most important. Don't make being
Speaker 1: a woman most important, rich most important, because then you
Speaker 1: have to look out for all women. Don't make being
Speaker 1: poor important, because then you got to look out for
Speaker 1: all poor people. They've even convinced some minorities that the
Speaker 1: idea of white supremacy is how they should align ideologically too,
Speaker 1: and it will ultimately extend to them and will trickle
Speaker 1: down our prosperous lives to you, and so on and
Speaker 1: so on. I don't want to talk to you guys
Speaker 1: in circles like you're not picking up what I'm putting down.
Speaker 1: So they've united on that singular focus, and those at
Speaker 1: the very very top of that pyramid benefit from it.
Speaker 1: Everybody else doesn't, but ideologically and on the same page.
Speaker 1: So all those people get to feel like they're getting
Speaker 1: what they want from government. They're not, but they made
Speaker 1: that one issue the most pressing and the one that
Speaker 1: they're most identifiable with, so it works on our side.
Speaker 1: That's not the case, first and foremost, because we're not
Speaker 1: black supremacists. First and foremost, we don't consider ourselves more important.
Speaker 1: We don't consider ourselves the only ones that deserve God's grace.
Speaker 1: We don't consider ourselves the only ones that deserve to
Speaker 1: have a voice. We don't consider ourselves the only ones
Speaker 1: that deserve love or safety, or an education, or food
Speaker 1: or wealth or the pursuit of happiness. So that's our
Speaker 1: first breakdown, you guys, that's our first weakness, is that
Speaker 1: we're not evil. We're not as a as a ethnicity,
Speaker 1: or as a race, or as a collective, greedy. There
Speaker 1: are people who feel like President Barack Obama wasn't a
Speaker 1: good president because he wasn't the black Donald Trump, because
Speaker 1: he didn't get in office and push forward legislation and
Speaker 1: agendas and things that only benefited black people. The same
Speaker 1: people have used those saying arguments against Vice President Harris
Speaker 1: because she said on a microphone that she will not
Speaker 1: bring forth policy just for black people. It's not just
Speaker 1: us here, but the other side them about morals and
Speaker 1: ethics and being kind and generous and empathetic. They don't that.
Speaker 1: So they've tricked a lot of you into believing that
Speaker 1: they're going to get in office and make things better
Speaker 1: for everybody. But we should know better, right, So part
Speaker 1: of our weakness is our heart and our desire to share. Right.
Speaker 1: So we get to this point and the Democratic Party
Speaker 1: has fallen short on a lot of their promises to us.
Speaker 1: But we have to understand that typically right, because we
Speaker 1: watched our former president throw all these rules away. So
Speaker 1: that part is confusing too, because we're like, wait, didn't
Speaker 1: you when Barack was in there, didn't these people have
Speaker 1: to agree and didn't, And then this other guy got
Speaker 1: in there and broke laws and broke rules and just
Speaker 1: did whatever he wanted and it still seems not being
Speaker 1: held accountable for it. So I can see how that
Speaker 1: could be confusing. But politicians and politics, the way government
Speaker 1: works in this country, no one can actually just walk
Speaker 1: in the room and do everything they want to do.
Speaker 1: So that's part of the problem. Some people, I have
Speaker 1: to acknowledge, don't always get in office and always try
Speaker 1: all the things they said they wanted to do. But
Speaker 1: in cases that we've seen in most recent history, there
Speaker 1: are those who collectively work against us. And even when
Speaker 1: we get to the highest seat, because of the three
Speaker 1: branches of government, because of checks and balances, because the
Speaker 1: need for a majority, because of the filibuster, and I
Speaker 1: can go on and on and on. It's been hard
Speaker 1: to push forward the agenda for black people in this country.
Speaker 1: It's not because people don't want to do it's not
Speaker 1: because people aren't trying. It's not because if it's far
Speaker 1: more nuanced than complicated than we think. And again, we
Speaker 1: will continue to have this conversation. Civic cipher dot Com
Speaker 1: civic cipher on all socials message us, we will call back,
Speaker 1: right back, text back, email back. We might even pull
Speaker 1: up on you and sit down and talk to you.
Speaker 2: It's not beyond the realm possibilities. Also, I think you
Speaker 2: said it best initially. It's hard to hold that magnifying
Speaker 2: glass up to the Democrats mmmm and ignore what Republicans
Speaker 2: are doing or not not do the same thing insofar
Speaker 2: as Republicans are so we do.
Speaker 1: Not scrutinize them at the same level. It's a very
Speaker 1: interesting thing that.
Speaker 2: We do and asked not to give anyone a free
Speaker 2: passer to like unnecessarily condemn anyone else.
Speaker 1: Rather, it is.
Speaker 2: Some some food for thoughts, something to keep in mind
Speaker 2: for people that are overly critical of Democrats every go around,
Speaker 2: because there's people I'm not voting for Democrats. There's people
Speaker 2: that did that with Obama. It was doing that to
Speaker 2: Barock Rock.
Speaker 1: That's wild. But anyway, you know, are they are they?
Speaker 1: Do they break their promises to us? Or have they
Speaker 1: not fulfilled their promises to us? Compared to who else? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's the part, thank you. It's compared should be asked,
Speaker 1: who's this party who has delivered on all areas for
Speaker 1: black people?
Speaker 2: I'll wait, Yeah, if it's nobody, then you stuck with
Speaker 2: the two choices and the one that is at least promising,
Speaker 2: you know, or at least trying or you know whatever.
Speaker 2: And we've talked about that at the beginning's conversation. There's
Speaker 2: some deliverables that have been hit. It's just on a
Speaker 2: longer scale.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then we can look at it important to
Speaker 1: point out as well, And I love that you guys
Speaker 1: might notice Rams just never identifies as a Democrat, more
Speaker 1: as a liberal or a progressive, which is how you
Speaker 1: should think about this as well, because I've seen people
Speaker 1: talk about how the Democratic Party used to do us
Speaker 1: and how they would be, you know, we should have
Speaker 1: always stayed with the Republicans, And then you'd be ignoring
Speaker 1: a lot of history just to say that based on
Speaker 1: the party designation, because the ideology of the parties switched
Speaker 1: once upon a time. Yeah, it was right after the
Speaker 1: Great Depression. Yeah, I think nineteen twenties, somewhere in the right,
Speaker 1: so very very wealthy rich Southerners became Republicans around that time,
Speaker 1: and it flipped the entire eye ideology of that party.
Speaker 1: And I think a similar thing is happening to that
Speaker 1: party now where they've changed identity. It used to be
Speaker 1: about law and order and the Constitution and things like that,
Speaker 1: and now they clearly could care less about any of that. So,
Speaker 1: you know, more research, more questions, and more conversation. This
Speaker 1: is not a judgmental place. This is not a point
Speaker 1: of fingers. We just want the conversation to continue beyond
Speaker 1: surface level talking points that are kind of designed to
Speaker 1: get the answer to a question that you've already determined
Speaker 1: the answer before you asked us. And we're about learning
Speaker 1: from you and you learning from us. And I'm glad
Speaker 1: you said that because we learn a lot too. Granted,
Speaker 1: we know probably more than most people because we work
Speaker 1: in this space every day.
Speaker 2: We get paid to read and this, and it all
Speaker 2: has to be all the time scholarly, and so.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, just bear that in mind.
Speaker 2: All right, What are ideas and suggestions that we haven't
Speaker 2: tried to improve education and awareness of what's on the
Speaker 2: ballot and how to understand it and be a more
Speaker 2: informed voter.
Speaker 1: I like that question.
Speaker 2: Well, we talked about that a bit at the beginning.
Speaker 2: You can go to both candidates websites. They're not difficult
Speaker 2: to find. There are a number of nonpartisan organizations that
Speaker 2: make cheat sheets where we live all of the propositions
Speaker 2: that you can find information you know, what do certain
Speaker 2: proposition propositions mean and get a breakdown for your own
Speaker 2: communities and so forth.
Speaker 1: Ahead. Yeah, the important thing when we say Kamala Harris
Speaker 1: dot com or Project twenty twenty five, Project twenty twenty
Speaker 1: five was written by the authors of Project twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1: It was not written by the Democratic Party to try
Speaker 1: to make them look bad. So I think people might
Speaker 1: think when they see that document that that's something that
Speaker 1: Democrats put together to shine a negative light on Donald
Speaker 1: Trump and his peak Downald people, closest advisors, friends, donors,
Speaker 1: cabinet members, and cabinet members put that playbook together for
Speaker 1: him so the next time he was president, they could
Speaker 1: run that play And I know people question the efficacy
Speaker 1: of information that they get because there's so much misinformation
Speaker 1: out there. So I will continue to make us a resource.
Speaker 1: Reach out to us. We will help you find accurate information.
Speaker 1: We don't have all of that information available to us
Speaker 1: right now, so I don't want us to take up
Speaker 1: too much time on just that singular question.
Speaker 2: All right, what are the factors that caused the decline
Speaker 2: of black mail voters? What was the results of that
Speaker 2: decline and how do we prevent it from happening.
Speaker 1: So I want to go first.
Speaker 2: Okay, First off, there has always been a subset of
Speaker 2: black mail voters who have voted Republican. The data actually
Speaker 2: shows when you get a large enough sample size that
Speaker 2: this is from the Black Voter Project. Actually, so I
Speaker 2: had a conversation with the director of the Black Voter
Speaker 2: Project and he explained this to me. He said that
Speaker 2: when you have a large enough sample size, you're talking
Speaker 2: a thousand plus and these are just black men, right,
Speaker 2: not a not a thousand plus sample size, and it's
Speaker 2: black men are a percentage of it, and white people
Speaker 2: are a percentage of it, and gays are a percentage
Speaker 2: of it. Whatever, just black men. And you have a
Speaker 2: large enough sample size, you see that the data. Again,
Speaker 2: the assumption here is that a larger sample size will
Speaker 2: give you more accurate data. The data reflects the historical pump.
Speaker 1: Scientific more data you have, the more accurate there you go,
Speaker 1: your conclusion will be.
Speaker 2: So the scientific assumption, I suppose is probably what I'm
Speaker 2: trying to say.
Speaker 1: But yeah, you're right.
Speaker 2: These people they specifically poll black people, black men in
Speaker 2: this instance, and their determination is that black people in
Speaker 2: this election are not voting at any higher rate, statistically speaking,
Speaker 2: a statistically statistically relevant higher rate than they have at
Speaker 2: any other election in the past, not twenty sixteen, and
Speaker 2: not since the seventies. And so the headlines are exaggerated
Speaker 2: because there is one section and I believe the increase
Speaker 2: was zero point seven percent of younger black men are
Speaker 2: actually considering a Donald Trump, voting for Donald Trump and o'
Speaker 2: donald trump presidency. Now, the question is what are the
Speaker 2: factors that cause the decline of black male voters. Well,
Speaker 2: I think I got a theory here because the Internet. Now,
Speaker 2: when we're looking at the actual numbers and the actual
Speaker 2: age range of these people, these are the people who
Speaker 2: are the folks that have spent years listening to the
Speaker 2: andrew Tates of.
Speaker 1: The world. These are the.
Speaker 2: People who kind of fully buy into the goofy like
Speaker 2: relationship guru advice people on the internet. These are the
Speaker 2: people who and I'm not trying to knock them, because
Speaker 2: they're humans and they're susceptible to a computer whose job
Speaker 2: it is to master human behavior, black, white or otherwise,
Speaker 2: and they can be duped the same way any other
Speaker 2: human can be duped, or they can be convinced. That's
Speaker 2: probably the better word to use. They can be convinced
Speaker 2: the way that anyone else can be convinced. And so
Speaker 2: I think that at least part of that zero point
Speaker 2: seven percent that has made the national headlines and caused
Speaker 2: this all to indeed look at these numbers like they
Speaker 2: are somehow way more statistically relevant than they have been historically.
Speaker 2: I would blame that phenomenon, at least in part, on
Speaker 2: some of the rhetorics, some of the information silos, some
Speaker 2: of the algorithm outcomes that people end up encountering on
Speaker 2: social media platforms.
Speaker 1: I wanted to stop my brother from even theorizing because
Speaker 1: the data does not support that those headlines are even true.
Speaker 1: The headlines, however, I think, come from what rams' is
Speaker 1: just said. Okay, we'll go with that, right. The headlines
Speaker 1: come from that. It's not an actual thing, but people
Speaker 1: think so because of that, because the way that people
Speaker 1: get information, and because people are more out loud about
Speaker 1: it now. It's cool to be contrarian now to say
Speaker 1: the Earth is flat. It's provocative. It starts a conversation.
Speaker 1: Some people, Yeah, it does not matter whether that's how
Speaker 1: they even really feel. But they know they'll get the
Speaker 1: intention and the engagement. They can go back and forth.
Speaker 1: They can be a little bit of a star, you know.
Speaker 1: So it's not cool to say water is wet and
Speaker 1: the sky is blue. It's not cool to say things
Speaker 1: that people consider obvious. But if you can say something provocative,
Speaker 1: it gets to people going.
Speaker 2: All right, let's go with this one. How does leaving
Speaker 2: a majority black community for a majority white community impact
Speaker 2: shaping policy for places that are predominantly black?
Speaker 1: H Well, yeah, I think you're going to have to
Speaker 1: not as much as you might think. Go ahead. If
Speaker 1: a specific group of people leaves an area in mass then,
Speaker 1: of course, how that group shows up at the polls
Speaker 1: and the voice that they have is directly affected. The
Speaker 1: reason why I said, may I is because we didn't
Speaker 1: talk about a sector of a community. You know, we're
Speaker 1: talking about a predominantly black let's just say city, instead
Speaker 1: of a part of town having people financially glow up
Speaker 1: and relocate to a part of town that's more white,
Speaker 1: like the Jeffersons, Like the Jeffersons, George and Wheezy. What
Speaker 1: will happen is that people in that city. It's not
Speaker 1: a numbers thing it's a ratio thing. So if the
Speaker 1: percentage of people in that city that are black is
Speaker 1: the same, So say it's a seventy percent black city,
Speaker 1: a bunch of people make more money and they move
Speaker 1: into a suburb where they're now the gross minority. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the percentage of black people in the city that they
Speaker 1: left could remain the same, and their voices will still
Speaker 1: collectively be heard the same way. The only reason, the
Speaker 1: only way that that dynamic would shift is if only
Speaker 1: black people are relocating and then being replaced by people
Speaker 1: who aren't black. Gentrification correct, and the question didn't give
Speaker 1: us enough data to know if that's what's happening, So
Speaker 1: it's hard to answer the question completely. The shaping of
Speaker 1: outcomes or policy in a city like Detroit, for instance,
Speaker 1: Detroit was one of the top six cities when I
Speaker 1: was in high school population for black people by number.
Speaker 1: By the time the recession hit in two thousand and eight,
Speaker 1: millions of people had left the city, which was the
Speaker 1: world's largest auto manufacturer at the time. But during that
Speaker 1: recession a lot of jobs went away, so did a
Speaker 1: lot of people. However, it still remained a largely black city,
Speaker 1: So even though it went from several million people to
Speaker 1: several hundred thousand. The political outcomes were the same because
Speaker 1: it was still a mostly black populated city, even though
Speaker 1: the numbers were smaller by the millions. So I hope
Speaker 1: that answered that question. Again, with more information and more data,
Speaker 1: we can answer that question more fully. But I kind
Speaker 1: of stepped in front of ramses because that's a complicated
Speaker 1: question that could go a lot of different directions, and
Speaker 1: just because there's not enough factors in the question, we
Speaker 1: could just speak to twenty different possible scenarios. And again
Speaker 1: we got to and try to get to every question
Speaker 1: that was at and then for me, M ra almost
Speaker 1: done here. But then for me, you know, you know,
Speaker 1: I came from California and I came to Arizona, so
Speaker 1: there's always been my communities always been very very mixed,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, even if even in a
Speaker 1: place like Compton, California, there's still a significant population of
Speaker 1: Hispanic people. And that was a time in my life
Speaker 1: when I was very young, so I wasn't like clicked
Speaker 1: on to like community needs and that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1: So you know, I haven't lived in terms in like
Speaker 1: a majority black community.
Speaker 2: That hasn't been my my lived experience, but more recently
Speaker 2: I have been able to see the impact of that.
Speaker 2: And because you've come from that, I know that, you know,
Speaker 2: you had more to offer that question than I did.
Speaker 2: So that's why I was hoping that that we would
Speaker 2: answer it that way. So I think that our yeah,
Speaker 2: this might be our last question. Here has there been
Speaker 2: talk on how to reach people without internet or social
Speaker 2: networks than most of us still need to reach. So yeah,
Speaker 2: you know what, we have some privileged information just because
Speaker 2: we're connected with some some people and some movements and
Speaker 2: things like that, and we happen to know that knocking
Speaker 2: on doors, you know, starting conversations, having community forums, reserving rooms,
Speaker 2: and passing out flyers, making phone calls, making phone calls,
Speaker 2: all that stuff still is still effective and people still
Speaker 2: use it.
Speaker 1: And we and contrary to popular believe, Rams and I
Speaker 1: still talk on the radio. Yeah, I know, digital platforms
Speaker 1: have kind of taken over, but people still get in
Speaker 1: there every week and turn their radios on.
Speaker 2: Across the whole country, a lot of radio stations, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean. And so you know a lot
Speaker 2: of you know, legacy methods of communication and reaching people
Speaker 2: are still very viable and you know, if you feel
Speaker 2: so inclined, and a lot of these things are very accessible.
Speaker 2: They don't require some instances, they don't require a lot
Speaker 2: of money, and other instances they don't require any money.
Speaker 2: So for folks that want to, you know, galvanize people,
Speaker 2: engage people after, not just before, but after elections take place.
Speaker 2: You know, it's it's on you and and and to
Speaker 2: be honest with you, that's part of how you get
Speaker 2: started in politics, you know, that's part of how you
Speaker 2: like get started in really creating some change, you know.
Speaker 2: And so you know, if that feels like something that
Speaker 2: you still want to do, do it. You know, if
Speaker 2: you need some support. We have an Ebony Excellence segment
Speaker 2: on our radio show, and we love shouting out people
Speaker 2: that are doing good work out there, and uh, you know,
Speaker 2: we'll still be your brothers.
Speaker 1: Something I want to say before we get out of here,
Speaker 1: there's a manipulation that has happened to human beings as
Speaker 1: a collective in the United States, probably more so than
Speaker 1: the rest of the world, and it's the construct of race.
Speaker 1: We argue black versus white issues, we argue gay versus
Speaker 1: heterosexual issues, we argue Christian versus gentile or unsaved or
Speaker 1: center issues. And by causing all these different silos and
Speaker 1: different sectors of people, those who oppress us have masterfully
Speaker 1: gone unscathed. Right. It is a massive cross section of
Speaker 1: things at the top. Ramses communicated to me for the
Speaker 1: first time, and I was like, wow, right, the white
Speaker 1: heterosexual Christian male who's wealthy, that's a lot of things
Speaker 1: that had to cross over. But that person then took
Speaker 1: every other group with people and made them a silo.
Speaker 1: Hispanics go over there, black people go over there, you know,
Speaker 1: Asian people go over there, because if we united, that
Speaker 1: person's position would be threatened. So you have black straight
Speaker 1: people versus black gay people when they have so many
Speaker 1: similar interest in goals and things that they want out
Speaker 1: of life. But if you can keep them divided on
Speaker 1: that thing right and use church to do it right,
Speaker 1: make that other group and other and make them bad,
Speaker 1: and then they won't unite, right, and then they're far
Speaker 1: more poor people in this country than rich, far more.
Speaker 1: It's not even kind of close. It's not even kind
Speaker 1: of close. It might be like ninety five to five,
Speaker 1: like something gross if they all united, right, So you
Speaker 1: have to keep them divided. There's a candidate in this
Speaker 1: race that has policies that will affect most people positively,
Speaker 1: there's another candidate that has policies that will affect most
Speaker 1: people negatively. Somehow, this race is like a neck and
Speaker 1: neck fifty to fifty thing, and the data shows that
Speaker 1: shouldn't make sense. The reason why it does is because
Speaker 1: they found a masterful way to tribalize people and put
Speaker 1: them all on these different teams even though they have
Speaker 1: these cross sections of things they could all equally benefit from.
Speaker 1: So when you get in a room and you say, well,
Speaker 1: who's going to do the most for the black issues, Well,
Speaker 1: if everybody in this room is black but also poor,
Speaker 1: there's way more poor people than black people. So if
Speaker 1: everybody poor was represented by someone, that person could do
Speaker 1: the most good for the most of us.
Speaker 2: That was the ship doctor King took before he was assassinated.
Speaker 2: That's why he was in Memphis when he got assassinated.
Speaker 2: Go ahead, no, please expound, Well, listen, I think you
Speaker 2: hit the nail on the head. I wanted to just
Speaker 2: impart this last little bit of wisdom for people that
Speaker 2: don't have this context.
Speaker 1: You know, it's just something.
Speaker 2: That I have fortunate enough to know but I wasn't
Speaker 2: born knowing this, so you know, please accept this.
Speaker 1: Complex Societies have.
Speaker 2: Been around for a very very very long time, extremely
Speaker 2: long time, and governments have been tried and have been toppled.
Speaker 2: Societal experiments have been performed and succeeded and failed. And
Speaker 2: this has happened long before the United States of America
Speaker 2: was even a thought.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: The reason I say this is because people learning how
Speaker 2: to wield power, people learning how to divide and conquer,
Speaker 2: people learning how to benefit themselves in their posterity at
Speaker 2: the expense of the masses. These books have been written
Speaker 2: long before this country existed, and in the years since,
Speaker 2: people have only been able to refine and modernize the strategies. Again,
Speaker 2: we're talking about societies. And so when you look at
Speaker 2: a person like a Donald Trump, and you look at
Speaker 2: a person like a Kamala Harris, and you look at
Speaker 2: a system of democracy in a two party system, in
Speaker 2: a country as young as this one is, and you
Speaker 2: think you got it all figured out, and you think
Speaker 2: that you're smarter than the great human algorithm that has
Speaker 2: tried and failed and tried and failed and ultimately become
Speaker 2: the most optimized version of itself. For those that are
Speaker 2: familiar with indeed, how algorithms work. For you to think
Speaker 2: that somehow you are flying above that. Yeah, you're singular right.
Speaker 2: Most like you and I both realize that we are
Speaker 2: just susceptible to disinformation missing.
Speaker 1: We know that. Yeah, we've had to own it.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, we had to come into this room
Speaker 2: and say we got that wrong. And the reason I'm
Speaker 2: telling you this is because I don't want you to
Speaker 2: feel like whatever path you've committed to, I don't want
Speaker 2: you to feel like you need to stay on that path.
Speaker 2: Because what we see a lot is that people will
Speaker 2: make a decision. Q. You say this better than I do,
Speaker 2: so forgive me if I get it wrong, and correct
Speaker 2: me if I.
Speaker 1: Get it wrong.
Speaker 2: But people will make a decision based off of limited information.
Speaker 2: But it's they don't know it's limited information at that time.
Speaker 2: It's all the information they have. They'll make a decision,
Speaker 2: let's call it a Trump decision for the sake of argument,
Speaker 2: for a hypothetical. Right, then someone else will bring new
Speaker 2: information that casts not only their candidate but their decision
Speaker 2: in a different light, and rather than changing the decision
Speaker 2: with the new information, they will re engineer a justification
Speaker 2: for for the decision that they've made that somehow flies
Speaker 2: in the face of the new information, factual information that
Speaker 2: they've made. And this is something that happens to human beings,
Speaker 2: This is something that happens in societies, and this is
Speaker 2: something that is as old as the great human experiment
Speaker 2: that nature is performing.
Speaker 1: The emotional connection to that decision makes the new information
Speaker 1: and synthetical to them, not the information they exactly. So
Speaker 1: now it's a personal with that defending themselves. They think
Speaker 1: they're still defending Donald Trump or their decision to vote
Speaker 1: for him. That passion with which they're defending that decision
Speaker 1: is because your information that you brought is now an
Speaker 1: affront to that person. Go ahead and hit him with
Speaker 1: the with the Mark Twain, and they're defending themselves. I
Speaker 1: believe it was Mark Twain who said it is easier
Speaker 1: to fool a person than to convince them that they
Speaker 1: have been fooled. It's not about the information that they
Speaker 1: were provided. It is about the position that they said
Speaker 1: out loud was their position. So now you are in
Speaker 1: a front or are in opposition to that person, not
Speaker 1: just their idea, because the new information should disprove the
Speaker 1: idea and cause them to move on without resistance. But no,
Speaker 1: now you're coming at me, and sadly, in a lot
Speaker 1: of these cases, there is something in Donald Trump that
Speaker 1: people identify within themselves and they are now defending themselves,
Speaker 1: not just the misinformed decision that they made.
Speaker 2: Listen, man, it ended. I don't want you to feel bad.
Speaker 2: I don't want you to feel It is human nature.
Speaker 2: Some people are more susceptible to it. Some people aren't.
Speaker 2: Some people had the right set of circumstances that got
Speaker 2: them there, some people haven't balked that same path. But
Speaker 2: it is okay to be wrong. It is okay to
Speaker 2: provide a critical examination of your own process. Indeed, we
Speaker 2: have to do that too, and it is okay.
Speaker 1: We got on microphones and said very critical things about
Speaker 1: Kamalin Harris with very limited wrong information, and we had
Speaker 1: to come back and be like, hey, that was that
Speaker 1: was a week in complete tend Then we've always had
Speaker 1: the answers, or that we even have all the answers now,
Speaker 1: but we're trying, and we're open to being educated, being
Speaker 1: taught in actually being corrected.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, so, So yeah, for those that still have
Speaker 2: more questions, you know, q has laid down the framework
Speaker 2: for you to reach out. We can still keep having
Speaker 2: these conversations and we may end up doing some more
Speaker 2: of those in the future that it's looking likely, and
Speaker 2: then we're going to hopefully be able to expand it
Speaker 2: and let more people into the conversation. But that first
Speaker 2: one needed to be us. Yeah, that needed to be
Speaker 2: just and you know, if you if again, if you
Speaker 2: wanted to keep the conversation going, you have everything you
Speaker 2: need for the show.
Speaker 1: Of course, we're going to put.
Speaker 2: This on the Black Information Network too, because this is
Speaker 2: something that Chris Thompson wanted us to have and it
Speaker 2: just kind of worked out this way. Absolutely, So you
Speaker 2: can reach out to me at Rams's job.
Speaker 1: I am q Ward on all social media, Yeah, as well,
Speaker 1: C I V I C C I P H E
Speaker 1: R on everything dot Com, Instagram, Twitter, x whatever you
Speaker 1: call it, Facebook, Facebook, YouTube, and don't forget the red
Speaker 1: microphone talk back feature. Oh yeah, only I heard radio
Speaker 1: app So we can continue this conversation as well. And yeah,
Speaker 1: meet us on fan base because we are going to
Speaker 1: do some unique content that will only be available on
Speaker 1: fan base. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So hey, I'm gonna say this man first Q, I
Speaker 2: love you. I love you too, brother. I'm proud of you.
Speaker 2: Everybody that listened to this point in the show, I'm
Speaker 2: gonna say it to you. I love you and I'm
Speaker 2: proud of you. Even if, even if we end up
Speaker 2: at on the other side of it, you listened. And
Speaker 2: that's more than we can say for a lot of folks.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: And And like you said, we're willing to listen to
Speaker 2: because you've listened to us. So let's keep it going
Speaker 2: on until next time.
Speaker 1: Peace.