WEBVTT - Short Stuff: What did we use before infant formula?

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, and welcome to the short Stuff. I'm Josh and

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<v Speaker 1>there's Chuck in this short stuff, So let's get going.

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<v Speaker 1>And Chuck, I have to say, if I'm grateful for

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<v Speaker 1>one thing to not have one thing, it's an infant

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<v Speaker 1>right now, because I can't imagine the stress of having

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<v Speaker 1>an infant right now here in the United States. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>if you have an infant right now and you are

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<v Speaker 1>not able to breastfeed for one reason or another, it

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<v Speaker 1>probably is stressful because there's an infant formula baby formula shortage.

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<v Speaker 1>As everyone knows. Uh, we gotta think our old colleagues

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<v Speaker 1>at how stuff works and Alicia Hoyt for this very

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<v Speaker 1>timely article. But I was thinking the other day. I

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<v Speaker 1>was like, well, what did they used to do? Because

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<v Speaker 1>baby formula is pretty new and not and you know

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<v Speaker 1>mothers have not you know, it's not like not being

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<v Speaker 1>able to breastfeed is a new thing. Uh. There have

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<v Speaker 1>always been conditions, uh that could lead to that, or

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<v Speaker 1>you know, some people just don't want a breastfeed, or

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<v Speaker 1>like in our case, you adopt a kid, you don't

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<v Speaker 1>have the option of breastfeeding. So what did they used

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<v Speaker 1>to do? And I guess the first thing we should

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<v Speaker 1>talk about, is wet nurses. Yeah, because that's the obvious idea.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, the wet nurses go back for like four

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<v Speaker 1>thousand years at least um, where women were hired or

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<v Speaker 1>if they were enslaved, um they would be forced to

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<v Speaker 1>nurse babies. Usually it was associated with the elite though, right. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>And I did some more research on this, and there's

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<v Speaker 1>even a book about the exploitative nature in the history

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<v Speaker 1>of wet nursing, because it seems like lesser and lesser.

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<v Speaker 1>It wasn't just like, oh, it's just a job you

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<v Speaker 1>can have and more it's like, well, I've got a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of money, I'm not interested, so you do it.

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<v Speaker 1>Or you're an enslaved person, so we're gonna take advantage

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<v Speaker 1>of you by forcing you to do so. Um. It

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<v Speaker 1>seems like it's got a pretty exploitive, ugly pass, but

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<v Speaker 1>it still happens. There are technically there are still wet

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<v Speaker 1>nurses you can hire, but it seems like from what

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<v Speaker 1>I researched, the sharing of breast milk these days is

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<v Speaker 1>way more casual among friends and family, like, hey, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>this mom is busy working, so their mom friends might

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<v Speaker 1>chip in and help and pump and dump and you

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<v Speaker 1>can here's my breast milk. You can have it for

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<v Speaker 1>this week you're really busy. Um, it seems to be

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<v Speaker 1>more of breast pumping, although there is you know, there

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<v Speaker 1>are still friends and family that are comfortable with saying like, no,

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<v Speaker 1>you can just breastfeed my child. That's great, it's natural,

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<v Speaker 1>it's lovely and beautiful. Right, it's not exploitive in that

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<v Speaker 1>sense at all. Right, Like things really changed post Civil War,

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<v Speaker 1>it seems like with the wet nursing so um. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>And we talked also about milk banks, where like you

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<v Speaker 1>might have, um, you might feed your baby milk from

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<v Speaker 1>another person who um, you might never meet, who just

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<v Speaker 1>donates her extra milk because she can and wants to.

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<v Speaker 1>We talked about that in Are Either a Breastfeeding or

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<v Speaker 1>bottle feeding episode? Remember the two parter that wee Those

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<v Speaker 1>were good. Those were really good. Yeah. I think they

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<v Speaker 1>still stand up too. So if you want to know

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<v Speaker 1>more about infant formula, go check that out or breastfeeding,

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<v Speaker 1>go check the other one now. But so, if you

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<v Speaker 1>didn't have access to a wet nurse, Chuck, what did

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<v Speaker 1>you do, hot shot? What did you do? Milk a donkey. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>hold still donkey, I joke, but that's actually true. They

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<v Speaker 1>you know, obviously, animal milk is something that we drink, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>some people do at least, I like cow's milk, but

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<v Speaker 1>they would give kids cow's milk. But in other places,

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<v Speaker 1>depending what animals you had around, could be a donkey

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<v Speaker 1>or a goat or a horse or something. Yeah, sheep's, pigs,

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<v Speaker 1>and any mammal makes milk. Even Robert de Nira, you

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<v Speaker 1>could milk meat, Greg That's right, So that makes sense.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, yeah, milk from another animal that it's probably

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<v Speaker 1>a pretty good alternative, especially if milk from humans is

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<v Speaker 1>unavailable for one reason or another. But they also um

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<v Speaker 1>came up with other methods, I guess starting in the

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<v Speaker 1>century UM where they would create something called pap and

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<v Speaker 1>it was basically like um milk toast or cereal wet

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<v Speaker 1>cereal with with water, and they would feed it to

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<v Speaker 1>a baby UM using a special device called a pap boat,

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<v Speaker 1>which if you look it up, it's a gravy boat.

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<v Speaker 1>They would use a gravy boat to feed an infant

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<v Speaker 1>milk toast. Right, they would clean the gravy out all right,

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<v Speaker 1>put the back in, and it would be a pat boat.

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<v Speaker 1>Right there you go. The problem here, though, is is

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<v Speaker 1>this was before they knew about sterilization and things like that,

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<v Speaker 1>and so that was the big problem. It wasn't as

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<v Speaker 1>much of the nutrients that the baby was getting, although

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<v Speaker 1>that was a factor, but as far as infant mortality

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<v Speaker 1>and uh kids growing up with deficiencies. Uh, most times

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<v Speaker 1>it was because I think of the fact that these

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<v Speaker 1>pat boats weren't very sterile that they were shoving in

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<v Speaker 1>the kids out. Yeah, it was like the stuff you

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<v Speaker 1>should know TV shows craft services table, remember that, that's right,

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<v Speaker 1>you know. I finally set uh my daughter down. We

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<v Speaker 1>watched one of those the end of the day. Oh yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>what did she think? She was like, I mean, she

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<v Speaker 1>kind of gets that I do a job where people

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<v Speaker 1>know who I am and then I've been on TV

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<v Speaker 1>and stuff. But I think when she actually saw it

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<v Speaker 1>and saw us, she was a little knocked out. I

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<v Speaker 1>think she thought it was pretty cool. Was she like, wow,

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<v Speaker 1>Josh is really wearing a lot of makeup Now I

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<v Speaker 1>said that, right, She was like, oh no, I see exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>I couldn't miss it. Dan. Uh so the first infant

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<v Speaker 1>formula or should we take a break, Yeah, let's take

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<v Speaker 1>a break, all right, then we'll talk about the first

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<v Speaker 1>infant formula. Yeah, okay, we'll be right back. Okay, the

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<v Speaker 1>first are you still humming? You know? All right? The

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<v Speaker 1>first infant formula attempt as far as like, hey, let's

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<v Speaker 1>try and duplicate human breast milk was in eighteen sixty

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<v Speaker 1>five and a gentleman named Justice von Liebig and that

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<v Speaker 1>is the first baby formula. It was cow's milk. It

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<v Speaker 1>was malt, flour, wheat and potassium bicarbonate. And then I

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<v Speaker 1>think when was that eighteen sixty five? A couple of

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<v Speaker 1>years later, another pharmacist name Henri. Uh is it nestle, nestle,

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<v Speaker 1>nest that's the nest Lee guy, I figured, But is

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<v Speaker 1>it pronounced nestlie in French? I think? So? All right,

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<v Speaker 1>they launched the uh, well, why don't you say it,

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<v Speaker 1>Mr Frenchie arene lectaneously and it means plain flour, milky nestle. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>and it was It was the same thing basically, but

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<v Speaker 1>it was just easier to mix together and get out

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<v Speaker 1>the door. And then I think only like fifteen years

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<v Speaker 1>later or so, they were up to close to thirty

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<v Speaker 1>brands of infant food on the shelves. Yeah, because von

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<v Speaker 1>Liebig really kicked something off. And also we got a

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<v Speaker 1>hat tip that guy a little more. He also gave

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<v Speaker 1>us beef bullion cubes and UM synthetic fertilizers, among many

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<v Speaker 1>many other things. So he definitely changed the world quite

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<v Speaker 1>a bit. Interesting. Uh, the nineteen fifties, I think is

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<v Speaker 1>when things really came around as far as formula. Like

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<v Speaker 1>before that, in the thirties and forties, they would recommend

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<v Speaker 1>like evaporated milk or something once they figured safely canning things.

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<v Speaker 1>But in the nineteen early nineteen fifties is when the

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<v Speaker 1>first liquid formula was invented that you didn't have to

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<v Speaker 1>mix up, and a lot of people, well just a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of mothers was just like, all right, I'd really

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<v Speaker 1>use this than breastfeed. And then I think in the

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<v Speaker 1>seventies and eighties, Uh, it came back around a little

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<v Speaker 1>more to mothers wanting to breastfeed more. And as Alicia

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<v Speaker 1>White points out, we now live in a time, thankfully

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<v Speaker 1>where there's UM at least shouldn't be any judgment either

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<v Speaker 1>way on how people want to feed their babies. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>because I think you can trace that to um. Different

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<v Speaker 1>waves of feminism as well, Like that formula freed women

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<v Speaker 1>in a lot of ways from being shackled to the

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<v Speaker 1>household necessarily like sorry, you gotta raise the kid or

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<v Speaker 1>else it's gonna starve. Now it's like, no, here, dad,

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<v Speaker 1>here's some formula. Even you can do this, Even you

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<v Speaker 1>can do this without screwing it up, Roger. And then

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<v Speaker 1>it's it's like and then as feminism kind of took

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<v Speaker 1>different forms, and it was like, hey, let's stop being

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<v Speaker 1>judge or let's stop forcing women to find, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>to all follow one directions as feminists, it kind of

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<v Speaker 1>came back around and then finally we uses in a

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<v Speaker 1>non judgmental state. And by the way, we need to

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<v Speaker 1>do an episode on feminism once and for all. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>that would probably be at least a two parter because

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<v Speaker 1>of the all the different waves of feminism. I would

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<v Speaker 1>think maybe one per wave. Oh boy, that'd be a lot.

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<v Speaker 1>That's like a mini series. All right, well we'll see, um,

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<v Speaker 1>but we should talk about whether or not because you know, obviously,

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<v Speaker 1>with the shortage right now, they're probably uh desperate mothers

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<v Speaker 1>out there, especially in in lower income brackets, that are thinking,

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<v Speaker 1>could I should I make my own infant formula and

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<v Speaker 1>sort of generally experts say that's not a good idea

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<v Speaker 1>for a lot of reasons. Well, yeah, I mean, infant

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<v Speaker 1>formula today is heavily regulated. Um. There was an act

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<v Speaker 1>called the Infant Formula Act of nine, which is described

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<v Speaker 1>as one of the most specific and detailed acts ever

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<v Speaker 1>passed by Congress that sets a lot of standards for

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<v Speaker 1>maximum levels of nutrients, minimum levels of nutrients. Um, you

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<v Speaker 1>know what cons stitudes, adulteration what um what how a

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<v Speaker 1>recall follows. It's really specific to like make sure that

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<v Speaker 1>formulas as safe as it gets. And so it's really

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<v Speaker 1>heavily formulated. It's technically an ultra processed food to be

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<v Speaker 1>a Group four food by the way, but it's like

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<v Speaker 1>really scientifically calibrated. And you just can't do that at

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<v Speaker 1>home with homemade ingredients, right. I'm sure there are recipes

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<v Speaker 1>that probably include things like cow's milk, generally those quartz crystals,

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<v Speaker 1>generally vegetable oil, uh, lactose, But that, like you said,

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<v Speaker 1>there are uh, just a whole host of um nutrients

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<v Speaker 1>that they have settled on as like, hey, we know

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<v Speaker 1>how to make baby formula. So because I think in

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<v Speaker 1>the old days like the stuff they were doing, it

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<v Speaker 1>would it would plump a baby up just fine, but

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<v Speaker 1>they were not getting the nutrients they needed. And it's

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<v Speaker 1>it's like back then it was like, oh, you got

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<v Speaker 1>a big, round, chubby, healthy baby. Uh and that dark

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<v Speaker 1>circles under his eyes. Yeah, And that wasn't always the case.

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<v Speaker 1>So now they've really, um thankfully honed it down to

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<v Speaker 1>something that they say you shouldn't replicate at home. And

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think this is a case where it's just

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<v Speaker 1>like big formulas squashing the the idea that you could

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<v Speaker 1>do this yourself. It seems like a genuine safety issue. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>And I should point out that we have enough self

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<v Speaker 1>perspective that we realize we've done a complete one eight

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<v Speaker 1>about face on ultra processed foods and made at home

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<v Speaker 1>foods in this episode. Oh yeah, sure, compared to our

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<v Speaker 1>ultra processed foods episode. That's a good point. It is

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<v Speaker 1>a good point. And if that one hasn't come out yet,

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<v Speaker 1>if you have it to look forward to, yeah, exactly,

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<v Speaker 1>you'll you'll understand a lot better when the episode comes out.

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<v Speaker 1>That's right, you got anything else? I got nothing else?

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<v Speaker 1>They say, don't do it? Uh? Really just my heart

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<v Speaker 1>goes out to anyone out there that's stressed out about

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<v Speaker 1>trying to find formula and hopefully that can be corrected soon. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>That has to be like a deep, profound, very unique

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<v Speaker 1>form of stress. Yeah, so hanging there, everybody. If you

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<v Speaker 1>have a story about that, especially if you have tips

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<v Speaker 1>or techniques that are proven and scientifically based, maybe send

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<v Speaker 1>them in and we'll try to share them with everybody.

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<v Speaker 1>How about that? Agreed? Okay, Well, since Chuck said, agreed,

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<v Speaker 1>everybody's short stuff is out. Stuff you should know is

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<v Speaker 1>a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts my

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