1 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the short Stuff. I'm Josh and 2 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: there's Chuck in this short stuff, So let's get going. 3 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 1: And Chuck, I have to say, if I'm grateful for 4 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:16,919 Speaker 1: one thing to not have one thing, it's an infant 5 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:19,599 Speaker 1: right now, because I can't imagine the stress of having 6 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 1: an infant right now here in the United States. Yeah, 7 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 1: if you have an infant right now and you are 8 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: not able to breastfeed for one reason or another, it 9 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 1: probably is stressful because there's an infant formula baby formula shortage. 10 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: As everyone knows. Uh, we gotta think our old colleagues 11 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 1: at how stuff works and Alicia Hoyt for this very 12 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:42,559 Speaker 1: timely article. But I was thinking the other day. I 13 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:45,160 Speaker 1: was like, well, what did they used to do? Because 14 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:49,280 Speaker 1: baby formula is pretty new and not and you know 15 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 1: mothers have not you know, it's not like not being 16 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 1: able to breastfeed is a new thing. Uh. There have 17 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 1: always been conditions, uh that could lead to that, or 18 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 1: you know, some people just don't want a breastfeed, or 19 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 1: like in our case, you adopt a kid, you don't 20 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:07,559 Speaker 1: have the option of breastfeeding. So what did they used 21 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 1: to do? And I guess the first thing we should 22 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 1: talk about, is wet nurses. Yeah, because that's the obvious idea. 23 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:20,319 Speaker 1: I mean, the wet nurses go back for like four 24 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:24,399 Speaker 1: thousand years at least um, where women were hired or 25 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 1: if they were enslaved, um they would be forced to 26 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:32,759 Speaker 1: nurse babies. Usually it was associated with the elite though, right. Yeah, 27 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:34,919 Speaker 1: And I did some more research on this, and there's 28 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 1: even a book about the exploitative nature in the history 29 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 1: of wet nursing, because it seems like lesser and lesser. 30 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 1: It wasn't just like, oh, it's just a job you 31 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 1: can have and more it's like, well, I've got a 32 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 1: lot of money, I'm not interested, so you do it. 33 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 1: Or you're an enslaved person, so we're gonna take advantage 34 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 1: of you by forcing you to do so. Um. It 35 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 1: seems like it's got a pretty exploitive, ugly pass, but 36 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: it still happens. There are technically there are still wet 37 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 1: nurses you can hire, but it seems like from what 38 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:09,919 Speaker 1: I researched, the sharing of breast milk these days is 39 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 1: way more casual among friends and family, like, hey, uh, 40 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 1: this mom is busy working, so their mom friends might 41 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 1: chip in and help and pump and dump and you 42 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 1: can here's my breast milk. You can have it for 43 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 1: this week you're really busy. Um, it seems to be 44 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:30,359 Speaker 1: more of breast pumping, although there is you know, there 45 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 1: are still friends and family that are comfortable with saying like, no, 46 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 1: you can just breastfeed my child. That's great, it's natural, 47 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: it's lovely and beautiful. Right, it's not exploitive in that 48 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 1: sense at all. Right, Like things really changed post Civil War, 49 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 1: it seems like with the wet nursing so um. Yeah, 50 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 1: And we talked also about milk banks, where like you 51 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 1: might have, um, you might feed your baby milk from 52 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 1: another person who um, you might never meet, who just 53 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: donates her extra milk because she can and wants to. 54 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 1: We talked about that in Are Either a Breastfeeding or 55 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 1: bottle feeding episode? Remember the two parter that wee Those 56 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 1: were good. Those were really good. Yeah. I think they 57 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 1: still stand up too. So if you want to know 58 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: more about infant formula, go check that out or breastfeeding, 59 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: go check the other one now. But so, if you 60 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:16,959 Speaker 1: didn't have access to a wet nurse, Chuck, what did 61 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:23,079 Speaker 1: you do, hot shot? What did you do? Milk a donkey. Yeah, 62 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:27,240 Speaker 1: hold still donkey, I joke, but that's actually true. They 63 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 1: you know, obviously, animal milk is something that we drink, uh, 64 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 1: some people do at least, I like cow's milk, but 65 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 1: they would give kids cow's milk. But in other places, 66 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 1: depending what animals you had around, could be a donkey 67 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 1: or a goat or a horse or something. Yeah, sheep's, pigs, 68 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 1: and any mammal makes milk. Even Robert de Nira, you 69 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: could milk meat, Greg That's right, So that makes sense. 70 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, milk from another animal that it's probably 71 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 1: a pretty good alternative, especially if milk from humans is 72 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 1: unavailable for one reason or another. But they also um 73 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 1: came up with other methods, I guess starting in the 74 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: century UM where they would create something called pap and 75 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 1: it was basically like um milk toast or cereal wet 76 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 1: cereal with with water, and they would feed it to 77 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 1: a baby UM using a special device called a pap boat, 78 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: which if you look it up, it's a gravy boat. 79 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 1: They would use a gravy boat to feed an infant 80 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 1: milk toast. Right, they would clean the gravy out all right, 81 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 1: put the back in, and it would be a pat boat. 82 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 1: Right there you go. The problem here, though, is is 83 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 1: this was before they knew about sterilization and things like that, 84 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 1: and so that was the big problem. It wasn't as 85 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 1: much of the nutrients that the baby was getting, although 86 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:49,479 Speaker 1: that was a factor, but as far as infant mortality 87 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:54,839 Speaker 1: and uh kids growing up with deficiencies. Uh, most times 88 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:57,279 Speaker 1: it was because I think of the fact that these 89 00:04:57,320 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 1: pat boats weren't very sterile that they were shoving in 90 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:01,919 Speaker 1: the kids out. Yeah, it was like the stuff you 91 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:06,920 Speaker 1: should know TV shows craft services table, remember that, that's right, 92 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:09,920 Speaker 1: you know. I finally set uh my daughter down. We 93 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 1: watched one of those the end of the day. Oh yeah, 94 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 1: what did she think? She was like, I mean, she 95 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 1: kind of gets that I do a job where people 96 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 1: know who I am and then I've been on TV 97 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:21,920 Speaker 1: and stuff. But I think when she actually saw it 98 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 1: and saw us, she was a little knocked out. I 99 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:26,840 Speaker 1: think she thought it was pretty cool. Was she like, wow, 100 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 1: Josh is really wearing a lot of makeup Now I 101 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 1: said that, right, She was like, oh no, I see exactly. 102 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 1: I couldn't miss it. Dan. Uh so the first infant 103 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 1: formula or should we take a break, Yeah, let's take 104 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 1: a break, all right, then we'll talk about the first 105 00:05:47,960 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 1: infant formula. Yeah, okay, we'll be right back. Okay, the 106 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 1: first are you still humming? You know? All right? The 107 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:23,599 Speaker 1: first infant formula attempt as far as like, hey, let's 108 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:27,479 Speaker 1: try and duplicate human breast milk was in eighteen sixty 109 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 1: five and a gentleman named Justice von Liebig and that 110 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 1: is the first baby formula. It was cow's milk. It 111 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:40,160 Speaker 1: was malt, flour, wheat and potassium bicarbonate. And then I 112 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 1: think when was that eighteen sixty five? A couple of 113 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:48,239 Speaker 1: years later, another pharmacist name Henri. Uh is it nestle, nestle, 114 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 1: nest that's the nest Lee guy, I figured, But is 115 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:55,160 Speaker 1: it pronounced nestlie in French? I think? So? All right, 116 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:58,359 Speaker 1: they launched the uh, well, why don't you say it, 117 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:06,799 Speaker 1: Mr Frenchie arene lectaneously and it means plain flour, milky nestle. Yeah, 118 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:08,480 Speaker 1: and it was It was the same thing basically, but 119 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 1: it was just easier to mix together and get out 120 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: the door. And then I think only like fifteen years 121 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: later or so, they were up to close to thirty 122 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 1: brands of infant food on the shelves. Yeah, because von 123 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 1: Liebig really kicked something off. And also we got a 124 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: hat tip that guy a little more. He also gave 125 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: us beef bullion cubes and UM synthetic fertilizers, among many 126 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: many other things. So he definitely changed the world quite 127 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 1: a bit. Interesting. Uh, the nineteen fifties, I think is 128 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 1: when things really came around as far as formula. Like 129 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 1: before that, in the thirties and forties, they would recommend 130 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 1: like evaporated milk or something once they figured safely canning things. 131 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 1: But in the nineteen early nineteen fifties is when the 132 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: first liquid formula was invented that you didn't have to 133 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 1: mix up, and a lot of people, well just a 134 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: lot of mothers was just like, all right, I'd really 135 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 1: use this than breastfeed. And then I think in the 136 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 1: seventies and eighties, Uh, it came back around a little 137 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: more to mothers wanting to breastfeed more. And as Alicia 138 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: White points out, we now live in a time, thankfully 139 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: where there's UM at least shouldn't be any judgment either 140 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 1: way on how people want to feed their babies. Yeah, 141 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 1: because I think you can trace that to um. Different 142 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: waves of feminism as well, Like that formula freed women 143 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:33,679 Speaker 1: in a lot of ways from being shackled to the 144 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 1: household necessarily like sorry, you gotta raise the kid or 145 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 1: else it's gonna starve. Now it's like, no, here, dad, 146 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:41,840 Speaker 1: here's some formula. Even you can do this, Even you 147 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 1: can do this without screwing it up, Roger. And then 148 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: it's it's like and then as feminism kind of took 149 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 1: different forms, and it was like, hey, let's stop being 150 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 1: judge or let's stop forcing women to find, you know, 151 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 1: to all follow one directions as feminists, it kind of 152 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 1: came back around and then finally we uses in a 153 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:02,679 Speaker 1: non judgmental state. And by the way, we need to 154 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 1: do an episode on feminism once and for all. Yeah, 155 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 1: that would probably be at least a two parter because 156 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 1: of the all the different waves of feminism. I would 157 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:15,760 Speaker 1: think maybe one per wave. Oh boy, that'd be a lot. 158 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 1: That's like a mini series. All right, well we'll see, um, 159 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 1: but we should talk about whether or not because you know, obviously, 160 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 1: with the shortage right now, they're probably uh desperate mothers 161 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:29,320 Speaker 1: out there, especially in in lower income brackets, that are thinking, 162 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 1: could I should I make my own infant formula and 163 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 1: sort of generally experts say that's not a good idea 164 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 1: for a lot of reasons. Well, yeah, I mean, infant 165 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: formula today is heavily regulated. Um. There was an act 166 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:48,640 Speaker 1: called the Infant Formula Act of nine, which is described 167 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 1: as one of the most specific and detailed acts ever 168 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: passed by Congress that sets a lot of standards for 169 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:59,320 Speaker 1: maximum levels of nutrients, minimum levels of nutrients. Um, you 170 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 1: know what cons stitudes, adulteration what um what how a 171 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 1: recall follows. It's really specific to like make sure that 172 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 1: formulas as safe as it gets. And so it's really 173 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 1: heavily formulated. It's technically an ultra processed food to be 174 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:16,200 Speaker 1: a Group four food by the way, but it's like 175 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:20,199 Speaker 1: really scientifically calibrated. And you just can't do that at 176 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: home with homemade ingredients, right. I'm sure there are recipes 177 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 1: that probably include things like cow's milk, generally those quartz crystals, 178 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 1: generally vegetable oil, uh, lactose, But that, like you said, 179 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 1: there are uh, just a whole host of um nutrients 180 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:43,559 Speaker 1: that they have settled on as like, hey, we know 181 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: how to make baby formula. So because I think in 182 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:49,199 Speaker 1: the old days like the stuff they were doing, it 183 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 1: would it would plump a baby up just fine, but 184 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 1: they were not getting the nutrients they needed. And it's 185 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 1: it's like back then it was like, oh, you got 186 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: a big, round, chubby, healthy baby. Uh and that dark 187 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 1: circles under his eyes. Yeah, And that wasn't always the case. 188 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:06,600 Speaker 1: So now they've really, um thankfully honed it down to 189 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 1: something that they say you shouldn't replicate at home. And 190 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 1: I don't think this is a case where it's just 191 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:17,440 Speaker 1: like big formulas squashing the the idea that you could 192 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 1: do this yourself. It seems like a genuine safety issue. Yes, 193 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:23,600 Speaker 1: And I should point out that we have enough self 194 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: perspective that we realize we've done a complete one eight 195 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: about face on ultra processed foods and made at home 196 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 1: foods in this episode. Oh yeah, sure, compared to our 197 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:38,599 Speaker 1: ultra processed foods episode. That's a good point. It is 198 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 1: a good point. And if that one hasn't come out yet, 199 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:42,720 Speaker 1: if you have it to look forward to, yeah, exactly, 200 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 1: you'll you'll understand a lot better when the episode comes out. 201 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 1: That's right, you got anything else? I got nothing else? 202 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 1: They say, don't do it? Uh? Really just my heart 203 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 1: goes out to anyone out there that's stressed out about 204 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 1: trying to find formula and hopefully that can be corrected soon. Yeah. 205 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:02,200 Speaker 1: That has to be like a deep, profound, very unique 206 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:07,720 Speaker 1: form of stress. Yeah, so hanging there, everybody. If you 207 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 1: have a story about that, especially if you have tips 208 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 1: or techniques that are proven and scientifically based, maybe send 209 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:16,320 Speaker 1: them in and we'll try to share them with everybody. 210 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:19,959 Speaker 1: How about that? Agreed? Okay, Well, since Chuck said, agreed, 211 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 1: everybody's short stuff is out. Stuff you should know is 212 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts my 213 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:32,440 Speaker 1: heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 214 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.