1 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff Mom Never told you from how stup 2 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 3 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:18,480 Speaker 1: Kristen and I'm Caroline, and we are about to spend 4 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 1: two episodes talking about the history and the marginalization of 5 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:32,159 Speaker 1: and the contemporary landscape four women in Advertising. Yeah, that's right, 6 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 1: I mean Kristin and I. If you've listened to the 7 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: podcast at all ever, have covered a lot of topics 8 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: in the past related to how women are portrayed in 9 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 1: the actual advertisements. We've talked about photo shopping, We've talked 10 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 1: about body image, We've talked about really just traditional notions 11 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:53,160 Speaker 1: of femininity and gender roles as they are presented through 12 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:56,279 Speaker 1: the lens of advertising and marketing. But we have not 13 00:00:56,480 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 1: yet talked about actual female advertise users and copywriters and designers. Yeah, 14 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 1: at all, So we we should probably do that. And uh. 15 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 1: Two of the things that I found as fascinating and 16 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: doing this research Christian, that I was not aware of 17 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:19,319 Speaker 1: before were a how intimately sort of connected women were 18 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:23,319 Speaker 1: to the birth of advertising as an industry, um, and 19 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 1: how so many of them quickly rose to the highest 20 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:30,400 Speaker 1: ranks of the advertising industry when it was brand new. 21 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 1: But b I hope I'm on being not to but 22 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 1: be uh to b B. Two of how women played 23 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 1: this role in advertising, of essentially helping to market that 24 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 1: traditional femininity and gender norms to other women. That was 25 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 1: big business for women in advertising was being the voice 26 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 1: and perspective of women in general. Yeah, I mean being 27 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 1: the Peggy Olson of the office. Um, And speaking of 28 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 1: Peggy Olson and Mad Men, it seems like we haven't 29 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 1: really paid much attention to the history of women in 30 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 1: advertising until that show became such a blockbuster. And while 31 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 1: it does a decent job of accurately portraying what life 32 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 1: would have been like for a woman and a copywriter 33 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 1: in an agency in the nineteen sixties, it was a 34 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:26,360 Speaker 1: very different place when advertising first began developing in more 35 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 1: of the late nineteenth century. And Yeah, like you said, 36 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:36,359 Speaker 1: there's this unfortunate irony that you quickly run into when 37 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: it comes to women in the ad industry, which is 38 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 1: that the the asset that made us so successful also 39 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:52,799 Speaker 1: erected a glass ceiling and really reinforced institutional lives sexism 40 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 1: that is still rampant today, which we're going to cover 41 00:02:55,960 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 1: more in our next episode. And it's no surprise that 42 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 1: feminists talk about advertising a lot, because that's where a 43 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 1: lot of these troublesome images and stereotypes of women's roles 44 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 1: um historically and still today reside. But what I didn't 45 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 1: realize so much that Julia se Volca notes in her 46 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:26,799 Speaker 1: book ad Women, how they impact what we need, want 47 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: and buy, is that quote the history of advertising is 48 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 1: deeply entwined with feminism. Yeah, advertising in it as well 49 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 1: as feminism had three waves, three early waves as it developed. 50 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 1: So it's first wave, as Kristen said, is in the 51 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 1: late nineteenth century, alongside uh, the industrial Revolution, the emergence 52 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 1: of the modern consumer economy, and alongside the suffrage movement itself. 53 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 1: So all of a sudd and you've got, you know, 54 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 1: products that are ready made. It's you don't have to 55 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 1: be making everything yourself. You've got people, men and women 56 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 1: and children going to work in factories with their tiny 57 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: hands um and wrapped up in all of this is 58 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 1: women fighting for the right to vote, to become full citizens. 59 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:22,359 Speaker 1: And so it's kind of not a coincidence then. You know, 60 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 1: we mentioned that women have been involved in advertising since 61 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 1: the get go. It's not a coincidence then that many 62 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 1: of those first successful ad ladies were feminists. And then 63 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: if you look at second wave feminism, women are really 64 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:41,160 Speaker 1: championing the right to pursue professional careers and achieve personal success. 65 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:45,119 Speaker 1: And you see a similar trend in advertising as well, 66 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 1: in the ways that women are being represented not just 67 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: at home anymore, but also hey baby, look you've come 68 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 1: a long way. So light up that Virginia Slim. Here's 69 00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 1: your independence with a side of cancer. And arguably third 70 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 1: wave feminisms relationship to advertising is pushing for it to 71 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 1: reflect the lived realities of being women. Yeah, and all 72 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 1: of this, as we move through time, more women are 73 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 1: entering the workplace, more women are entering different male dominated 74 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 1: industries and fields. But as we'll get into through this 75 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:29,719 Speaker 1: episode and into the next, women haven't quite shattered the 76 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:35,720 Speaker 1: glass ceilings of the advertising industry, no matter their early involvement. 77 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: And I got to say, white men have done a 78 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:42,359 Speaker 1: tip top job of gate keeping within the industry because 79 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:45,920 Speaker 1: you know, diversity in or the lack thereof, in the 80 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: ad business is not just something that applies to women, 81 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 1: but people of color as well. So with all of 82 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:59,279 Speaker 1: this in the back of our minds, the way this 83 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 1: part one is going to be structured is breaking it 84 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 1: down into three major themes in that earlier history of 85 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 1: women and advertising. So theme one we have to look 86 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 1: at just the basic feminization of consumption, or in other words, 87 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 1: how ladies be shopping came to be because you know, 88 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: shopping outside your home at some point was a new behavior, 89 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:32,599 Speaker 1: and even shopping had to be sold and advertisers sold 90 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:36,600 Speaker 1: it as a lady thing. Um. So let's travel back 91 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:40,280 Speaker 1: to the seventeen seventies, do we have to? It's it's 92 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:43,280 Speaker 1: a great place to be, um if if you are 93 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 1: a white man, yeah, probably a terrible place to get 94 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:49,600 Speaker 1: your period. Oh yeah, I get your period, or just 95 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:51,920 Speaker 1: you know, a great a great time if you love 96 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 1: independence and industrialization. Well that's right, because we see in 97 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 1: Britain the dawn of the Austrial Revolution. It would take 98 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:06,599 Speaker 1: about another hundred years for it to fully come into 99 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 1: vogue slash change the world in America because we were 100 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 1: we were a tad more rural, a lot a lot 101 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 1: more farms and space. Things were a lot more spread 102 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 1: out over here on the side of the pond, so 103 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 1: we just got things a little slower. But once steam power, 104 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 1: factories and railroads arrive, the Industrial revolution takes off and 105 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 1: for the very first time, things start costing less to 106 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 1: buy pre manufactured than two d I Y. Well, plus 107 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 1: you have all sorts of variety now too, so your 108 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 1: bonnet didn't just have to be white. You could buy 109 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 1: like a purple bonnet, or a blue bonnet, poka dotted bonnum, 110 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 1: maybe even a pokonuted bonnam. So leading up to the 111 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 1: Civil War we also have a media boom. This is 112 00:07:55,920 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 1: part of technological advances taking place that of course would 113 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: greatly impact and facilitate really the advertising industry. So you 114 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 1: have the emergence of daily, weekly, and monthly papers and 115 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 1: magazines as well as women's magazines. In the premier women's 116 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 1: magazines of the day were Goadie's Ladies Book, which was 117 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 1: the magazine. Then you had the Ladies Home Journal, of course, 118 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 1: because how else are you going to learn how to 119 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:33,559 Speaker 1: bake that apple crumble that sounds? Then in the you 120 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:37,200 Speaker 1: gotta get that l h J. Script. And then you 121 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 1: also have Peterson's Magazine, which when I first read that, Caroline, 122 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 1: it reminded me of J. Peterson on Seinfeld Peterman, J Peterman, 123 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 1: so close Peterman Peterson Yeah. Well, and then yeah, with 124 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 1: with all all of the fancy descriptions of things. Yes, 125 00:08:54,520 --> 00:09:00,719 Speaker 1: his his outdoor expensive khakis. Yeah, but I think Peterson's 126 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 1: was a bit different because they probably did not want 127 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:07,320 Speaker 1: women going outdoors too much. Women had to learn how 128 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,719 Speaker 1: to stay at home better. Yes, And if you did 129 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 1: go outside, don't move too quickly, you know, stay close 130 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 1: and walk slowly. So with that, in the eighteen fifties 131 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 1: you start getting the earliest ad departments and agencies beginning 132 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:28,319 Speaker 1: to form. Yeah, because I mean what goes in all 133 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: of these new daily, weekly and monthly papers and ladies 134 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 1: mag's advertisements? Yeah, because publishers have to make money somehow, 135 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 1: and that somehow is advertising. Yeah. And so by eight 136 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: sixty three, of course, we have the introduction of common currency, 137 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 1: which definitely helped things, helped people shop more effectively. We 138 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:51,200 Speaker 1: also see all of those new ready made goods requiring 139 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 1: branding and merchandizing, trademarking, positioning in the market, all these things. 140 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: Because if I make oatmeal and and you make oat me, 141 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 1: but it's basically like from the same oats, how are 142 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: we going to how are people going to know that 143 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 1: our oats are different oats? They're not different oats. I 144 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:11,959 Speaker 1: might put a Quaker man on mine, and you might 145 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 1: put a Quaker gal ms, Quaker oats, thank you very much, ms. Period. 146 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: She can't vote, but she'll fill you up in the morning. 147 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 1: Looks good. And as the manufacturing industry develops, you know, 148 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:33,080 Speaker 1: you have all of these mail order catalogs, which then 149 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 1: leads to brick and mortar stores and the retail industry 150 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 1: boom with early stores like Woolworth's five and Dime, A 151 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 1: and P Grocery. Don't forget Piggy Wiggly. Piggy Wiggly was 152 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 1: an original and also J. C. Penny. So we have 153 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:52,079 Speaker 1: these places outside of our homes where we can now 154 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 1: go and buy stuff. We don't just have to flip 155 00:10:54,280 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 1: through the Sears catalog place our orders and wait and wait. Well, 156 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:02,560 Speaker 1: that is something that was definitely something that people in 157 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 1: the rural areas of America still definitely relied on, and 158 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:09,600 Speaker 1: it was something that boomed. Uh similarly in the wake 159 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 1: of the Industrial Revolution. It's like, oh, well, okay, I 160 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 1: may not be able to walk into a J. C. 161 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:16,200 Speaker 1: Penny when I'm out here on the frontier, but I 162 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 1: can get a fancy catalog. I just imagine it's like 163 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:21,560 Speaker 1: me when I get the I K Catalog, which is 164 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: always an exciting day and I always certified like forty 165 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 1: five minutes to sit down and flip through the I 166 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 1: K Catalog. I love that. Um. I gotta tell you 167 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 1: my favorite catalog that my husband and I did not 168 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:38,960 Speaker 1: subscribe to is Costco Connection. Yeah. You know you're thirty 169 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 1: when suddenly a Costco connection ends up in your mailbox 170 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 1: hashtag this is thirty? Yeah? Is it? Is it taped 171 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:54,559 Speaker 1: together with a an A RP catalog? God, it might 172 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:56,439 Speaker 1: as well be. I feel like that was just right 173 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 1: around the corner. Um. But I was delighted to learn that, Yeah, 174 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:03,559 Speaker 1: there's a whole lifestyle magazine devoted to Costco, because really, 175 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:05,440 Speaker 1: once you start going to Costco, it does become a 176 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 1: way of life. Dude. I know my boyfriend just reapped 177 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 1: our Costco membership, and so does the catalog just show 178 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 1: people living the life of a Costco member. Are they 179 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:16,319 Speaker 1: like enjoying the giant thing of cheetahs? Yeah? I mean 180 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 1: it's just Kirkland brand shirts and piles of canned goods 181 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 1: for days? Can I jump into a swimming pool in 182 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:28,080 Speaker 1: this catalog? Full of of sharmon ultrastrong toilet paper. You 183 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 1: know what, in the costco connection, you can anything. Anything 184 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 1: is possible. Any who. Um, well, you also have to 185 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 1: keep in mind the context of the time. I'm sorry 186 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 1: if that was jarring, going from like a mental image 187 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:45,720 Speaker 1: of me in a pool of toilet paper, unused, unwrapped, wrapped, sorry, 188 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 1: to the Civil War. But you've got to keep in 189 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:50,920 Speaker 1: mind the context, which is that men going off to 190 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:54,960 Speaker 1: fight the Civil War and some women covertly, uh, but 191 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 1: a lot of them died. It should be news to 192 00:12:57,679 --> 00:12:59,560 Speaker 1: no one that when the men went away and a 193 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:02,839 Speaker 1: lot of them didn't come home, you had this man 194 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 1: drain on the economy and on the workforce. So a 195 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 1: lot of women started entering higher education, they started entering 196 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 1: the workforce and just public life in general, which afforded 197 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 1: them some financial agency that they didn't previously have. Yeah, 198 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 1: I mean you start to have laws being enacted around 199 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: the eighteen eighties that radically allowed women to claim their 200 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 1: own wages even when they were married, because for a 201 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 1: long time they couldn't. Some states were starting to allow 202 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 1: married women to even enter business partnerships and sign contracts. 203 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:45,679 Speaker 1: So you're starting to see um, not only more job opportunities, 204 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:51,559 Speaker 1: for you know, respectable middle class read white women outside 205 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:55,600 Speaker 1: the home. They're also starting to win a few financial 206 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: rights here and there. And we see this really showcase 207 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 1: in eighteen eighty with Matilda Sea Wheels first women run 208 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:12,960 Speaker 1: ad agency, the mc wheel Agency opens. Yeah, and she 209 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 1: had moved to the U s from Germany in the 210 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 1: eighteen seventies with her husband, but he dies suddenly. It's 211 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 1: very tragic. How am I going to keep myself afloat? 212 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 1: How am I going to make money? Well, she quickly 213 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 1: realizes how profitable it can be selling ad space in 214 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:34,240 Speaker 1: newspapers and magazines for products, being the go between, sort 215 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: of the ad representative or account manager of year old 216 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 1: early days. And she and her friend and business partner 217 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 1: Meta Volkman saw this advertising path as a terrific new 218 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 1: job opportunity for women as copywriters or clerks, solicitors, commercial artists, 219 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 1: especially because at this point, like so many of the 220 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 1: industries and careers that we talked about on the podcast, 221 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 1: it was too new to be gendered yet. Yeah. I 222 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 1: mean that's the same thing that you see with computer science. 223 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 1: Before we realize what a boom programming would be, women 224 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 1: were the original quote unquote computers and programmers. Um. And 225 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 1: in early advertising, not only did you have a gender free, 226 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 1: essentially environment, UM, but you also have what we're called 227 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 1: nostrums or the tonics and cure alls that were really 228 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 1: the backbone of the ad industry. Uh in post Civil 229 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 1: War time. They were a seventy million dollar industry, which 230 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 1: was no small potitos. Yeah, I mean, these ads for 231 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:50,239 Speaker 1: these tonics basically made up a third of American publishers revenues. 232 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 1: So I think that's a very interesting cycle. You know, 233 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 1: you talk about today, um, maybe negative images and advertising 234 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:02,920 Speaker 1: sort of normalizing certain body types for instance. UM, So 235 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 1: apply that pattern and knowledge to uh, the ideas around 236 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 1: these nostrums that Okay, well we're gonna run these ads. 237 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 1: We make a lot of money, so we're gonna run more. 238 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 1: We're gonna make even more money, and on and on 239 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:19,440 Speaker 1: and on and so people are going out and buying 240 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 1: in huge droves these really ineffective quote unquote medicines that 241 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 1: were honestly mostly alcohol. And because women were in charge 242 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 1: of advertising, so many of these products, and so many 243 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 1: of these products were advertised to women. It was basically 244 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 1: like kind of a wink wink, nudge and nudge for 245 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:41,960 Speaker 1: women to get wasted, Like it was definitely an early 246 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 1: way for women to be like, I'm just gonna drink 247 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:48,479 Speaker 1: this to feel better. Leave mommy alone with her tincture. 248 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 1: And since women were buying these tinctures and uh, you 249 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 1: know a lot of the other cure alls and even 250 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 1: say maybe the first um underarm depilatory powders are being 251 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 1: sold to women to cure and quotes their pit hair 252 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:12,200 Speaker 1: essentially um. In the eight nineties, this very young industry 253 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: starts to recognize how getting a woman's point of view, 254 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:21,120 Speaker 1: so to speak, is really profitable, because this is when 255 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 1: they start to also realize how influential women were as 256 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:31,879 Speaker 1: buyers because they influenced obviously not only household purchases, but 257 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 1: also things that men themselves bought. Yes, women swaying their 258 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:41,680 Speaker 1: husband's opinions on things. And and you have, of course, 259 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:46,639 Speaker 1: different industries orbiting this burgeoning ad industry. For example, in 260 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:49,120 Speaker 1: the eighteen nineties and the early eighteen nineties, you get 261 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:54,359 Speaker 1: Beatrice and Clara Tonison who started the first professional modeling agency. 262 00:17:54,520 --> 00:18:01,479 Speaker 1: So they're early lady entrepreneurs providing fresh face young women 263 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:07,360 Speaker 1: for advertisements. And in a woman named Kate Grizzwold becomes 264 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 1: the publisher of the trade magazine Profitable Advertising, and it 265 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 1: was highly influential at the time. And Grizzwold becoming publisher 266 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:22,920 Speaker 1: of this is you know, noted in advertising histories as 267 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 1: an example of the potential power that women did wield. Well, yeah, 268 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 1: you see a bunch of these trade magazines popping up 269 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 1: just a year later. Woman's World, Uh described how great 270 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:40,159 Speaker 1: advertising was for women. And obviously they didn't mean the 271 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:42,880 Speaker 1: ads themselves, they meant it as a profession. And they 272 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 1: were one of several of these trade magazines that talked 273 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:51,200 Speaker 1: about what it took to be a good ad woman. Um. Basically, 274 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:55,920 Speaker 1: an ad woman had a great understanding of human character 275 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 1: and human nature. They should have some literary skill and ideas. Uh, 276 00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 1: they have to be able to put themselves in the 277 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:04,119 Speaker 1: customers shoes. I mean, this is nothing new to anyone 278 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 1: today who's in advertising. You still need to have an 279 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 1: understanding of psychology and human nature and the way to 280 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 1: really market something to someone. Um. The article ended up 281 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:18,359 Speaker 1: getting reprinted four years later in nineteen hundred because so 282 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:21,719 Speaker 1: many women had started being attracted to the job. They 283 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:23,880 Speaker 1: were curious about the job they were writing into these 284 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 1: trade magazines, and the magazine was like, jeez, well we 285 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:28,960 Speaker 1: published a thing a couple of years ago. I guess 286 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 1: we'll reprint it. Um. But they were thought to be 287 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 1: most successful in the job women were when they were 288 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:42,359 Speaker 1: capitalizing on gender norms rather than trying to act, dress 289 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:46,920 Speaker 1: or right and pitch ideas like men. Of course, I mean, 290 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:49,439 Speaker 1: this is the turn of the century. We don't want women, 291 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:54,200 Speaker 1: you know, emulating masculine values. Um. And it's also around 292 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:56,639 Speaker 1: that time in the turn of the century that the 293 00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:02,680 Speaker 1: advertising industry not only is attracting some women into you know, 294 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 1: it's workspace, but also it's marketing consumption as a lady thing. 295 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 1: This is how ladies Be Shopping came to be, because 296 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:18,199 Speaker 1: I mean, the advertising industry really sold going out in 297 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 1: shopping as part of your feminine duty. While your man 298 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:27,160 Speaker 1: is away earning the money, you, as a woman, spend 299 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 1: it to make your home, your kids, yourself of course, 300 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:36,919 Speaker 1: look and feel good. So really, spending money is a 301 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:42,760 Speaker 1: woman's job. And we still see that stereotype so much today. Yeah, well, 302 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 1: I mean you see the stereotype that you see plenty 303 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 1: of people still embracing that division. You know, I mean, 304 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:51,119 Speaker 1: you still see plenty of people with the attitude of like, yeah, 305 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 1: women should just be shopping. Yeah. It reminds me of 306 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 1: a Real Housewives of New York binge that I've been 307 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 1: on lately, and and one of the couples is, um, 308 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:06,879 Speaker 1: I don't know what the dude is. It doesn't even matter. 309 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:10,639 Speaker 1: All the men or footnotes in that show anyway, UM, 310 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:15,119 Speaker 1: but the the woman UM does not work. And they're 311 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,440 Speaker 1: like at a dinner and she's the one commenting like, oh, yeah, 312 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:21,639 Speaker 1: you make that money so I can spend it, just 313 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 1: cringing as I'm like buying the next episode on Amazon. Um. 314 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,960 Speaker 1: But that was that was such a I mean, it 315 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 1: makes sense that consumption was gendered, but I guess I 316 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:39,240 Speaker 1: didn't realize before reading about this how explicit and strategic 317 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:42,040 Speaker 1: it does me too. I didn't either, I didn't realize 318 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:45,119 Speaker 1: that it was basically like a mandate. But the thing is, 319 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 1: I mean, it was a mandate to a certain class 320 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:54,879 Speaker 1: of white women because in terms of working class women 321 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:58,639 Speaker 1: women of color, the advertising industry had no interest in 322 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:02,120 Speaker 1: reflecting them them in their images. Why would they want 323 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:05,399 Speaker 1: to sell to them? They aren't ideal, Which is the 324 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:08,640 Speaker 1: same the more things change, the more they stay the same. 325 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 1: I mean, if if you look at money as votes 326 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:17,879 Speaker 1: or you know, money is the key to participation in representation, 327 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 1: advertisers are of course going to pitch to um that 328 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:27,399 Speaker 1: those uh, advertisers are of course going to pitch to 329 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:32,399 Speaker 1: that more desirable demographic of like young, wealthy or middle 330 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:35,200 Speaker 1: class consumers. Yeah. I mean, also you've got the fact 331 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:38,720 Speaker 1: of disposable income. But really, as we're going to see 332 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:42,480 Speaker 1: with theme number two, it's all about creating this myth 333 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 1: of idealized white femininity. UM. Because when we get into 334 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:52,440 Speaker 1: the next stage of the industry around World War One, before, during, 335 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,400 Speaker 1: and after this is when we really see the monetization 336 00:22:56,119 --> 00:23:02,240 Speaker 1: of that female viewpoint. Because leading up to World War One, 337 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:08,440 Speaker 1: advertisers are seeing women as really worthwhile to their business 338 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:13,120 Speaker 1: for three main reasons. Uh, they'd already figured out how 339 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 1: influential they were on men's consumption, So I mean, what 340 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:22,679 Speaker 1: a bargain. Um. They're also cheap, you know, the gender 341 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 1: wage gap existed way back when. Um, And they bring 342 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:31,680 Speaker 1: the feminine point of view. Yeah. Well it's funny that 343 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,040 Speaker 1: you you put it like that, because one of the 344 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 1: first badass ladies in advertising was definitely not a shrinking violet. Uh. 345 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:45,160 Speaker 1: In nineteen eleven, the j. Walter Thompson Agency JWT hired 346 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:49,639 Speaker 1: its first female copywriter and frankly rab feminist lady Helen 347 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 1: Landsdown Resort, who ended up staffing an entire department with 348 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:57,879 Speaker 1: female copywriters. So she's actually responsible. It turns out this 349 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:02,160 Speaker 1: is another tidbit I learned for the original UH like 350 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:07,200 Speaker 1: sex cells concept. She showed a man embracing a woman 351 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:12,160 Speaker 1: in an ad for Woodberry soap, accompanied by the headline 352 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 1: A skin you love to touch? Was it the same 353 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:16,680 Speaker 1: ad or was it a different one that featured a 354 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 1: naked lady for soap? There was like a really scandalous 355 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 1: early ad for soap that also featured like a nakedly 356 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:26,399 Speaker 1: kind of hunched over and facing away from the camera 357 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 1: kind of looks like are you are you cold? You 358 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,119 Speaker 1: probably really cold. I don't know if that was also 359 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 1: or they caught her off guard? Yeah, who let you 360 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:42,119 Speaker 1: in my house to sketch me for the past two hours? What? Um? 361 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 1: And so. By nineteen just a couple of years later, 362 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:50,199 Speaker 1: JWT's women's department, helmed by Reasor, attracted more than half 363 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:53,440 Speaker 1: of the agency's billings, and I don't have the exact 364 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 1: number of accounts in front of me, but that meant 365 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:02,760 Speaker 1: that the staff of women in like the women's editorial department, 366 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 1: was doing far and away a bulk of the creative 367 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 1: work in the agency. But we're being paid less than 368 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 1: the men who had far fewer accounts that they were managing. 369 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:19,879 Speaker 1: But again, like you said, the more things change, the 370 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:23,360 Speaker 1: more they say the same. And by the time Resort 371 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:27,720 Speaker 1: makes it to the JWT boards, she's incredibly successful. You see, 372 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:31,200 Speaker 1: you know, her star rising, But by that point most 373 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,800 Speaker 1: women in the agency were secretaries. So you have some 374 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:40,400 Speaker 1: breakout stars like a Resort, but it's not a universal 375 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 1: story by any means. One woman's success at the top 376 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:49,679 Speaker 1: of corporate America does not translate to general women's equality, 377 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:51,840 Speaker 1: which is something that, of course we talk about today 378 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,639 Speaker 1: with anything in terms of women making to the c suite. 379 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,440 Speaker 1: But if you look at how you know, women in 380 00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 1: advertising were being reported on in you know, the teens, 381 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:07,439 Speaker 1: it's so strikingly different than the kind of headlines that 382 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 1: we see today. So in nineteen twelve, first of all, 383 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,920 Speaker 1: you have the founding of Advertising Women of New York, 384 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:18,240 Speaker 1: which still exists, and is still a highly influential group. 385 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 1: Um and the New York Evening Telegram reported women advertising 386 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 1: managers now entrusted with the spending of twenty million dollars 387 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 1: a year. So you would probably think, if you were 388 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,640 Speaker 1: a reader at that time, that, hey, this new advertising 389 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 1: business is really welcoming to women. Women are really you know, 390 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:43,960 Speaker 1: busting down some doors, making making some cash. Well, I 391 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 1: mean yeah, but the whole reason behind Awnie's founding is 392 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:53,679 Speaker 1: that women weren't allowed in the all male advertising league. Yeah, 393 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,160 Speaker 1: and and again, I mean there, that's that's sort of 394 00:26:56,200 --> 00:27:00,960 Speaker 1: the um, the the temptation of romantis sizing this early 395 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:05,200 Speaker 1: history of advertising when especially in the you know, turn 396 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:10,360 Speaker 1: of the century era, when it was relatively un gendered. 397 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 1: Although it feels like that lasted like a weekend and 398 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:14,879 Speaker 1: then the guys came back and were like, wait, a 399 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:18,200 Speaker 1: tick coiled on. We just want your feminine viewpoint here 400 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:22,399 Speaker 1: is less than what you deserve to earn, UM, but 401 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 1: romanticize it because you do have, you know, these standout 402 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:31,240 Speaker 1: women who were nonetheless climbing the ranks here and there. 403 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 1: So in the nineteen twenties, for instance, Jane Martin was 404 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:41,399 Speaker 1: a stenographer turned ad whiz, whom Julian Savolka in that 405 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:46,399 Speaker 1: Ad Women book describes as an outspoken feminist. She was 406 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,560 Speaker 1: single and loving it, and I mean it seems like 407 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 1: she's just got a bulldozed her way through. Yeah, she's 408 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:56,720 Speaker 1: known as the ad woman who made ad Women famous. 409 00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:00,399 Speaker 1: So she worked her way up through. Sheer also nous 410 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 1: and you know, hard work, from advertising for a single 411 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 1: manufacturer all the way up to agency work. And she 412 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 1: did it all explicitly for economic independence. Because this is 413 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,879 Speaker 1: a lady who never married. Keep in mind, at this time, 414 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:17,800 Speaker 1: typically if you were a lady person in the workforce, 415 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:21,960 Speaker 1: you were expected or in some cases forced to retire 416 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 1: or resign once you get married. Well, and this reminds 417 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:30,000 Speaker 1: me of our two parter on librarians because female librarianship 418 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:32,719 Speaker 1: was also shooting through the roof at this time as well. 419 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:37,359 Speaker 1: And there was that line because kind of that crossroads 420 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 1: if you're a woman in the workplace where you either 421 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 1: get married and quit or work very very little, or 422 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:50,040 Speaker 1: you have to stay single in order to move up. 423 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 1: I mean you can get in a Boston marriage. Yeah, yeah, 424 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 1: Boston marriage being you know, living with a lady friend. 425 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 1: Wink wink, nudge, nudge. Yeah, could just be a lady friend, 426 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 1: or it could be a lady friend with benefits. Yes. Indeed. 427 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 1: By nine though, when Martin did have to retire because 428 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 1: of illness, she was earning eight times the average woman's salaries. 429 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 1: So a survey, for instance, showed that female buyers of 430 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,480 Speaker 1: ad space were paid five grand a year, while their 431 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 1: male counterparts were earning about seventy. Martin, at the end 432 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,200 Speaker 1: of her career, was earning ten thousand books. Yeah. I 433 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 1: have a feeling that Jane Martin was not one to 434 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:34,720 Speaker 1: take less than she knew she was worth. And that's wonderful. 435 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:38,760 Speaker 1: I wish more people would demand what they're worth. Yeah, 436 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,040 Speaker 1: I mean, but I'm saying like that talk about a 437 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:45,000 Speaker 1: radical act. Probably in nineteen five, it still feels like 438 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:49,320 Speaker 1: a radical act, does it does? And around the same time, 439 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:54,720 Speaker 1: in nineteen six, Nedda McGrath becomes the first female art 440 00:29:54,760 --> 00:30:00,520 Speaker 1: director in the industry. And this is major because women 441 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 1: were welcome is copywriters, space buyers, and researchers, but art 442 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 1: and creative direction and account management was for the boys. 443 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:13,040 Speaker 1: And this is going to be a major topic for 444 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 1: our second episode. Oh yeah, that's right, because shall we 445 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 1: say it a third time, the more things change, the 446 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:21,479 Speaker 1: more things stay the same. And another issue that we're 447 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,440 Speaker 1: going to revisit when we're talking about the lay of 448 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,240 Speaker 1: the land today. It's something that harkens back to the 449 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:29,760 Speaker 1: nineteen thirties because you've got a lot of women at 450 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:34,920 Speaker 1: the time working in many sectors of mass marketing. Um, 451 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 1: they just weren't at perhaps as top ranks of art 452 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 1: directors and creative directors. Yeah, and so to give an 453 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 1: idea of the diversity of jobs that were available and 454 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 1: that women were doing, you know, you do have things 455 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:51,760 Speaker 1: like copyrighting, whether for agencies or department stores or mail 456 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 1: order companies. Um, they oversaw publicity campaigns, they were merchandizing consultants. 457 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 1: You have commercial artists, product designers, and photographers. But again, 458 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 1: like there's that gatekeeping issue when it comes to where 459 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,080 Speaker 1: the bulk of the money is um up at the 460 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 1: top and with that account management that is I mean really, 461 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,680 Speaker 1: I mean just kind of reserved for the guys. So 462 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 1: while there were a good amount of women in the industry, 463 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:27,680 Speaker 1: in fact, by nineteen fifty, women made up a third 464 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:34,600 Speaker 1: of ad industry employees, the glass ceiling was very much 465 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,280 Speaker 1: in place. I mean and and you can hear how 466 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:42,520 Speaker 1: hopeful a lot of these women were with this industry 467 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 1: that maybe they thought they could, you know, continue making 468 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:49,680 Speaker 1: in roads in such as Christine Frederick, who was a 469 00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:52,360 Speaker 1: consumer advocate and home economists and also one of the 470 00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 1: founders of the Advertising Women of New York who in 471 00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,120 Speaker 1: eight said, nothing is more proof that women are important 472 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 1: and advertise then the plane fact that they've been in 473 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:05,680 Speaker 1: advertising in one capacity or another almost from the very 474 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:12,000 Speaker 1: beginning of the profession. So that was like just a given. 475 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 1: And yet that quote unquote plane fact has been largely 476 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:23,720 Speaker 1: erased over time, and we are only now rediscovering that 477 00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:28,960 Speaker 1: that was the case. So what happened because nifty uh, 478 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,800 Speaker 1: you know, a third of ad industry employees sisters are 479 00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:36,760 Speaker 1: doing it for themselves, some of them. Yeah, well, we 480 00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:40,000 Speaker 1: still have to get to theme number three, and we're 481 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,160 Speaker 1: going to do that when we come right back from 482 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 1: a quick break. And that third theme is something that 483 00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,360 Speaker 1: we've kind of been hinting at this whole time, which 484 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 1: is basically that the pigeonholing of women and gendered market 485 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:10,240 Speaker 1: segmentation ultimately proved to be this double edged sword for women, 486 00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,960 Speaker 1: that whole valuing of women for their female or feminine 487 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:17,840 Speaker 1: point of view um and using women as tools to 488 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,480 Speaker 1: market two fellow women. I mean, it's great if if 489 00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:23,080 Speaker 1: it helps you get a job and it helps you 490 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:25,160 Speaker 1: get a paycheck. It's not so great if it just 491 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 1: further and further pigeonholes women in the industry. And here's 492 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:33,920 Speaker 1: the thing. A lot of these women in advertising, specifically 493 00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,320 Speaker 1: a Christine Frederick, who was you know, both in advertising 494 00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 1: and was also a home economist, they really thought that 495 00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:45,400 Speaker 1: they were improving women's lives through the types of ads 496 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:50,000 Speaker 1: that they were making because they were selling these conveniences. 497 00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:54,480 Speaker 1: They were, you know, potentially like freeing women from the 498 00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:57,440 Speaker 1: drudgery of chores that they had to do without the 499 00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:02,240 Speaker 1: aid of all of these new gizmos and such. Not 500 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:05,960 Speaker 1: to mention that there were enough success stories like a 501 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:12,040 Speaker 1: Jane Martin that ambitious women considered advertising a place that 502 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:15,040 Speaker 1: they could go where they would not just get stuck 503 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:19,440 Speaker 1: in the secretarial pool. They could potentially, with their college education, 504 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:21,960 Speaker 1: climb their way out of the stent a pool. But 505 00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:27,359 Speaker 1: what got women in the door was their perspective, that 506 00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:33,320 Speaker 1: female point of view on gendered domesticity. And some women 507 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:37,120 Speaker 1: like Helen Lansdowne Razor were able to climb the ladder 508 00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:40,360 Speaker 1: above copywriter of course. Um, I mean you also have 509 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:44,480 Speaker 1: Jeane Wade rind Laub, who started as a consumer department 510 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:49,680 Speaker 1: copywriter at B B d oh, and she slayed at 511 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:53,640 Speaker 1: lady brands. Like when she started out, she was writing 512 00:34:53,680 --> 00:35:00,680 Speaker 1: for Duff's Gingerbread, Marvelous Makeup, Energetic Shoes. Oh, Energetic, I 513 00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:04,520 Speaker 1: just got it. It took you saying it for me 514 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:08,680 Speaker 1: to get it. So listeners, Energetic is E N N 515 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,560 Speaker 1: A as in like as if it's someone's first name. 516 00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:15,160 Speaker 1: And then getic, G J E T T I C K, 517 00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:19,560 Speaker 1: clever um. And then she graduated though two more established 518 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:22,920 Speaker 1: brands like General Mills, the United Fruit Company, UM and 519 00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:27,799 Speaker 1: Campbell's Soup, And like Helen Landsdown Razor, you see ran 520 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:31,680 Speaker 1: Loum kind of noticing like, okay, this female point of view, 521 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:35,879 Speaker 1: like selling these women's products, that is something that we, 522 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:38,560 Speaker 1: you know, we as women have a corner on in 523 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 1: this industry. So I'm going to capitalize this for all 524 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:46,640 Speaker 1: it's worth. So she saviely created women's research groups to 525 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:50,960 Speaker 1: get women's product impressions and branding input, and you see 526 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:54,279 Speaker 1: a lot of that, like recreated um on Mad Men Um. 527 00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:58,880 Speaker 1: She also voiced Betty Crocker, which I did. Did I 528 00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,560 Speaker 1: know that Betty Crocker had a voice. Betty Crocker began 529 00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:08,040 Speaker 1: as a radio personality, uh okay, and as part of that, 530 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:10,680 Speaker 1: she started the industry's first test kitchen. I mean, this 531 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:14,600 Speaker 1: woman was quite the innovator, and as evidence of that, 532 00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:18,840 Speaker 1: she became the first woman elected vice president of b 533 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:21,560 Speaker 1: B d Oh. So there again you have these instances 534 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:29,120 Speaker 1: of women here and there breaking through. But there's the catch, right, 535 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:33,040 Speaker 1: the catch being you've got these go getters, but they're 536 00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:39,279 Speaker 1: selling domesticity aproned baking. Not that there's anything wrong with 537 00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:44,600 Speaker 1: that hashtag, not all baking, but it was selling the 538 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:49,360 Speaker 1: very gendered identity of a woman being in her sphere 539 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,360 Speaker 1: at home, supporting the man while he went out and worked, 540 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,520 Speaker 1: which is ironic for someone like a Christine Frederick, who 541 00:36:55,800 --> 00:37:01,160 Speaker 1: is one of the co founders of Annie. She was here. 542 00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:03,600 Speaker 1: She was this go getter, a woman who wanted to 543 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:09,640 Speaker 1: pursue career success um. But she also knew that advertising 544 00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:14,000 Speaker 1: to women and wives out there to get them to 545 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:18,440 Speaker 1: be consumers, it meant selling to a more conservative general 546 00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:21,800 Speaker 1: public who were more comfortable with the idea of women 547 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:29,839 Speaker 1: staying at home, which led Frederick to focusing on home economics. Basically, yeah, 548 00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:32,960 Speaker 1: it seems like Frederick really wanted to compensate for what 549 00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:37,560 Speaker 1: she knew was her violation of like feminine gender norms 550 00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:40,919 Speaker 1: by being this progressive professional woman, which was like those 551 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:42,839 Speaker 1: were politics that she didn't want to push. I mean, 552 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,520 Speaker 1: she was a relatively conservative woman, and it seems like 553 00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:50,000 Speaker 1: her whole home economics spin on things, which was really 554 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:54,520 Speaker 1: hot at the time, UM, was sort of compensating for that. 555 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:58,880 Speaker 1: So her whole perspective on it was like women who 556 00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,920 Speaker 1: cares that, you know, the workplace is not so welcoming 557 00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:07,279 Speaker 1: of us because our homes can be treated like factories. 558 00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:11,920 Speaker 1: We can systematize things, you can be your own assembly line, 559 00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:15,400 Speaker 1: so you see, I mean there's so much UM literature 560 00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:20,240 Speaker 1: in advertisements these days of literally like teaching women how 561 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:24,160 Speaker 1: to wash their dishes and fold their clothes, etcetera in 562 00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:28,040 Speaker 1: more efficient ways. So from that perspective, you have a 563 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:32,680 Speaker 1: Christine Frederick and others being like, I'm not selling you know, 564 00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:37,160 Speaker 1: women up the river, like I'm making their lives better. 565 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:42,000 Speaker 1: I'm teaching them how to you know, get spotless silverware 566 00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,560 Speaker 1: and have the time. You know, it's not like they. 567 00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:48,200 Speaker 1: I mean, we also have to give these women, um, 568 00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:50,680 Speaker 1: a little bit of h I think some of the 569 00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:53,880 Speaker 1: past for not having like the full scope of history 570 00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:57,040 Speaker 1: to look at, you know, and maybe like a full 571 00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:00,799 Speaker 1: understanding of I don't know, like intersectional feminism to realize like, 572 00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:03,680 Speaker 1: wait a minute, you're kind of digging a grave for us. Well, 573 00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:06,920 Speaker 1: they're busy reading all of those trade magazines about understanding 574 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:10,000 Speaker 1: human nature and putting themselves in consumers shoes. I mean, 575 00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,560 Speaker 1: but I mean women, women like Frederick or Rin lab 576 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:17,840 Speaker 1: were frankly a rare site in the market or the 577 00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,799 Speaker 1: economy in general. I mean, women having the ability to 578 00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:25,000 Speaker 1: be these career focused individuals. Um. But you know, like 579 00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:27,840 Speaker 1: we've said, there still was that glass ceiling to contend 580 00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:30,120 Speaker 1: with in the industry itself, despite the fact that the 581 00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:33,520 Speaker 1: door was open to an extent. Because here's the thing, 582 00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:38,840 Speaker 1: the advertising industry was not and still is not, insulated 583 00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:42,320 Speaker 1: from its own messages that it's selling. So the same 584 00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:46,759 Speaker 1: kind of essentially like female subordination and narrow and quote 585 00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:50,160 Speaker 1: unquote acceptable gender roles that they are selling to women 586 00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:53,520 Speaker 1: is translated to the workplace so where all of these 587 00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:57,800 Speaker 1: guys are like, ladies, you are terrific at selling to women. 588 00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:00,920 Speaker 1: You know. This is also another like through line that 589 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:03,719 Speaker 1: you see on Mad Men, where you know, Peggy of 590 00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:05,880 Speaker 1: course is a sign like pantios and stuff like that. 591 00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:10,320 Speaker 1: And she was like, really okay, um, because they're like, no, ladies, 592 00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:12,120 Speaker 1: this is what you're good at. You know, you stay 593 00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:15,160 Speaker 1: in your corner um, you know. So they were, I 594 00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:17,080 Speaker 1: don't know, it's like it gets kind of meta at 595 00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:22,040 Speaker 1: some point where it's like it almost feels like women 596 00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:27,319 Speaker 1: accidentally sold themselves out because in fact, it's still a 597 00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:31,000 Speaker 1: boys club at the top of the industry. Uh. The 598 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:35,319 Speaker 1: Advertising League, for instance, was all men's. A lot of 599 00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:39,000 Speaker 1: these professional organizations were all men, hence the founding. Like 600 00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:42,040 Speaker 1: you said of the advertising women of New York, there 601 00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:46,560 Speaker 1: was a noticeable gender wage gap for men and women 602 00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:49,080 Speaker 1: who would be doing the same thing. You have male 603 00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:55,600 Speaker 1: executives reluctant to promote women beyond copyrighting for female products. Um, 604 00:40:55,680 --> 00:41:00,719 Speaker 1: you have women being denied access to um leadership in 605 00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:04,520 Speaker 1: the creative department, and even down to the gendered language 606 00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:08,680 Speaker 1: in job announcements in the newspaper. Looking for ad men 607 00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:13,120 Speaker 1: or salaried men. Rarely would you see advertisements from a 608 00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:18,600 Speaker 1: like a j W T asking for ad women. Yeah. 609 00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:21,440 Speaker 1: And and even back then, the women who did break 610 00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:23,680 Speaker 1: through and climb up the ranks, they were perceived as 611 00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:28,080 Speaker 1: being these geniuses of the industry as as total outliers 612 00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:30,959 Speaker 1: who were somehow different than the rest of the women 613 00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:33,319 Speaker 1: around them. And one thing in the background of all 614 00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:37,520 Speaker 1: of this is the fact that, yeah, I mean white 615 00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,719 Speaker 1: women were having a tough time of it, you know, 616 00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:43,160 Speaker 1: busting through that glass ceiling if they wanted to. There 617 00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:45,560 Speaker 1: were probably plenty of women who were cool with being 618 00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:49,120 Speaker 1: secretaries and then getting married. That was a perfectly acceptable 619 00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:54,560 Speaker 1: and desired path that a lot of women took back then. Um, 620 00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:59,840 Speaker 1: but in no way could have possibly been easier for 621 00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:03,040 Speaker 1: are not just women of color, but people of color, 622 00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:07,399 Speaker 1: I mean African American men were a rare site on 623 00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:13,719 Speaker 1: Madison Avenue because of just basic media segregation and racist 624 00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:17,080 Speaker 1: publishing policies. And this is something that Jason Chambers writes 625 00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:20,200 Speaker 1: about in the book Madison Avenue in the Color Line, 626 00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:24,360 Speaker 1: African Americans and the Advertising Industry. Yeah, and so you know, 627 00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,320 Speaker 1: we mentioned earlier all the trade magazines that we're telling 628 00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:31,640 Speaker 1: women how to be good ad women add people. Uh, 629 00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:34,600 Speaker 1: and and they advocated a lot of the ability to 630 00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:38,520 Speaker 1: put yourself in the consumer's shoes. But there was a 631 00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:42,960 Speaker 1: basic flat out assumption that, you know, because white and 632 00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:47,560 Speaker 1: male is the dominant, and white and female is also 633 00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:50,520 Speaker 1: something that happens in the ad industry, you can be 634 00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:54,560 Speaker 1: white and female in the office, uh, but still your 635 00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:58,040 Speaker 1: only sort of targeting other white women. So there was 636 00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:00,600 Speaker 1: this idea that like, how in the world world could 637 00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:03,160 Speaker 1: a black man at the office or a black woman 638 00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:06,040 Speaker 1: at the office write copy or design an ad or 639 00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:10,799 Speaker 1: a campaign that could possibly target the general population. Oh 640 00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:15,960 Speaker 1: and the idea of a black male copywriter writing to 641 00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:20,319 Speaker 1: appeal to white women, I mean that would simply be 642 00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:25,680 Speaker 1: inconceivable because of all of the racism and hyper sexualization 643 00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:30,239 Speaker 1: and like white dude fears around the relationship between you know, 644 00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:33,680 Speaker 1: the potential sexual threat. You know that black men might 645 00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:37,800 Speaker 1: pose too white women. So that translates even two jobs 646 00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:42,320 Speaker 1: in the advertising industry. That is how like how deeply 647 00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:46,799 Speaker 1: embedded this kind of racism is. And initially advertising was 648 00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:50,279 Speaker 1: small enough that it didn't attract a lot of pushback 649 00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:53,640 Speaker 1: from the black community. Um, but of course once you 650 00:43:53,719 --> 00:44:00,680 Speaker 1: start seeing black owned ad agencies developing. Because black businesses 651 00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:06,680 Speaker 1: could not buy advertising in white or quote unquote mainstream 652 00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:12,520 Speaker 1: publications a lot of times, um, their opportunities were were limited, 653 00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:18,440 Speaker 1: although in their own ways, they were also selling idealized 654 00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:23,280 Speaker 1: images of a middle class yeah, a middle class black 655 00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:26,920 Speaker 1: family in order to counteract so many of the prevailing 656 00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:31,080 Speaker 1: racist stereotypes out there of black families as across the 657 00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:35,719 Speaker 1: board being poor and unstable and missing a father, all 658 00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:39,600 Speaker 1: of that stuff, of showing the happy Norman Rockwell version 659 00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:42,880 Speaker 1: of family in the ad just black, Yeah, I mean, 660 00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:49,279 Speaker 1: because consumer rights are part of full citizenship. Um. But 661 00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:53,200 Speaker 1: then we get to double edged sword number two, because 662 00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:57,959 Speaker 1: black enterprise both flourished and was hampered at the turn 663 00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:01,759 Speaker 1: of the century because of seid gregation, where you have 664 00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:05,040 Speaker 1: white owned brands that could sell to black consumers but 665 00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:10,320 Speaker 1: not vice versa. So by though, the white ad industry 666 00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:13,160 Speaker 1: begins paying more attention to the black market with the 667 00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:17,480 Speaker 1: launch of Ebony. UM. This also relates back to your 668 00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:21,200 Speaker 1: episode on Black newspapers and Ethel Payne where we go 669 00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:26,160 Speaker 1: into more detail about that. UM. But Ebony really changed 670 00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:30,400 Speaker 1: a lot and advertisers. White advertisers saw it as like 671 00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:33,520 Speaker 1: oh wait, hold on, there's all this this money out there. 672 00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:37,880 Speaker 1: There's look at look at this like premium publication targeted 673 00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:40,759 Speaker 1: to black people. Okay, we can have like blue chip 674 00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:45,239 Speaker 1: advertisers in this in this magazine. Yeah. And and the 675 00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:47,920 Speaker 1: thing is, when you get to the nineteen seventies, you've 676 00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:50,480 Speaker 1: got these ad agencies that again are mostly run by 677 00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:53,480 Speaker 1: white guys, and they're starting to realize that they should 678 00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:58,320 Speaker 1: hire more women and African American people. Uh, but that's 679 00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:02,520 Speaker 1: a lot due to affirmative action. That's not them being like, oh, 680 00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:05,160 Speaker 1: I should really get a diversity of viewpoints in my 681 00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:09,399 Speaker 1: staff so I can uh, you know, better serve my clients. Um. 682 00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:13,440 Speaker 1: And so basically that's where it stops. It's not like 683 00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:17,080 Speaker 1: there is some massive push from the actual higher ups 684 00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:20,080 Speaker 1: in these ad agencies to try to diversify. And in 685 00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:23,759 Speaker 1: the process of all of this, you see, you know, 686 00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:27,719 Speaker 1: some black agencies that are smaller and don't have as 687 00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:33,000 Speaker 1: big of budgets being shut out because white owned agencies 688 00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:37,280 Speaker 1: are coming in stealing business and stealing talent um. And 689 00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:40,520 Speaker 1: within all of this, though, there are a couple of 690 00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:45,880 Speaker 1: rowd ladies that way want to highlight who were making 691 00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:50,440 Speaker 1: their way through this career while facing double discrimination of 692 00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:52,200 Speaker 1: you know, not only being a woman, but being a 693 00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:56,080 Speaker 1: woman of color. So in nine three you have Caroline 694 00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:58,759 Speaker 1: Jones who is hired by j w T as its 695 00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:02,920 Speaker 1: first African American copywriter, and she later became the first 696 00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:07,400 Speaker 1: female African American vice president in a major agency. Still 697 00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:11,840 Speaker 1: at jw T, and early on in her career, Jones 698 00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:16,600 Speaker 1: was expected to focus on accounts that were geared toward 699 00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:19,440 Speaker 1: black consumers, just in the same way that we've been 700 00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:22,120 Speaker 1: talking about how women are expected to market to women. Well, 701 00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:25,280 Speaker 1: black people are expected to market to other black people. 702 00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:29,000 Speaker 1: But some of her campaigns for things like Campbell Soup 703 00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:33,440 Speaker 1: and KFC were actually taken national, although I believe the 704 00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:37,160 Speaker 1: imagery in those ads when they were taken national were 705 00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:42,560 Speaker 1: changed to white families instead of black families. Uh yeah, well, 706 00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:47,040 Speaker 1: and then um, maybe because of that. In six UM 707 00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:51,000 Speaker 1: she rolls solo. She had already I think opened a 708 00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:56,080 Speaker 1: couple of other agencies before UM, but in X she 709 00:47:56,200 --> 00:48:00,200 Speaker 1: opens up Caroline Jones Incorporated, and it's very six US 710 00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:05,480 Speaker 1: full through that. Ten years prior, you have Barbara Proctor 711 00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:10,000 Speaker 1: founding Proctor and Gardner Advertising, which was the second largest 712 00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:13,800 Speaker 1: black agency in the US, and Procter is the first 713 00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:17,520 Speaker 1: and only black woman helming an agency until the late eighties, 714 00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:20,520 Speaker 1: and she really had a social uplift mission with her work. 715 00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:24,279 Speaker 1: She really understood how ad images could influence people's perceptions 716 00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:27,680 Speaker 1: of the black community, and so she would not work 717 00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:31,960 Speaker 1: for cigarette or alcohol companies that targeted women and people 718 00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:34,600 Speaker 1: of color. And speaking to the l a times in, 719 00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:39,400 Speaker 1: Proctor said, I'm not nearly as successful as I would 720 00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:41,560 Speaker 1: be if I were a white male. If I were 721 00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:44,960 Speaker 1: a white male, I'd be among the fortune five hundred companies. 722 00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:49,000 Speaker 1: I had hoped to nurture this company into a Leo Burnett. 723 00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:51,920 Speaker 1: And for those of you outside the industry, Leo Burnett 724 00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:55,799 Speaker 1: is one of the biggest agencies. So I mean she's 725 00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:59,920 Speaker 1: calling it like it is right there. Um. But speaking 726 00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:04,320 Speaker 1: of Leo Burnett. In nine, the same year Barbara Proctor 727 00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:09,240 Speaker 1: found her advertising agency, Carol H. Williams becomes the first 728 00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:15,319 Speaker 1: black female creative director at a major agency at Leo Burnett. 729 00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:19,000 Speaker 1: And uh, this tagline that she came up with might 730 00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:24,960 Speaker 1: ring a bell to deodorant fans, doesn't make sense. She 731 00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:26,839 Speaker 1: came up with a whole strong enough for a man, 732 00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:30,560 Speaker 1: but made for a woman, which was secret deodorance campaign 733 00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:33,959 Speaker 1: for Forever. Yeah. Did I still use that? I don't 734 00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:36,480 Speaker 1: think so. It's kind of like that's how good some 735 00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:39,680 Speaker 1: of these taglines are that marketers and advertisers came up with, 736 00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:43,000 Speaker 1: because I literally still associate them with the brand, like 737 00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:45,960 Speaker 1: I still think of, uh, we love to fly on 738 00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:50,200 Speaker 1: it shows for Delta, which I love to say uh 739 00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:52,760 Speaker 1: to my mother because she is a Delta flight attendant 740 00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:58,280 Speaker 1: and it doesn't show I love you, Mom. But anyway, 741 00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:02,759 Speaker 1: according to add Women author Julianne Savolca, what these three 742 00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:06,120 Speaker 1: women that we just mentioned have in common is that 743 00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:10,000 Speaker 1: they knew when to pack up and head out, when 744 00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:14,680 Speaker 1: to leave the agencies that they were in and take 745 00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:18,400 Speaker 1: things entrepreneurial. Yeah. I mean it seems like they, you know, 746 00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:21,440 Speaker 1: recognize like, Okay, I've hit the ceiling or I'm about 747 00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:24,560 Speaker 1: to hit the ceiling. So I've just got to do 748 00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:29,120 Speaker 1: this for myself because all these white dudes at the 749 00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:33,839 Speaker 1: top have no interest in promoting me. You know, they 750 00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:37,800 Speaker 1: don't want me going to their all male clubs. Um. 751 00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:41,200 Speaker 1: I mean because they were also male clubs, you say, 752 00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:43,239 Speaker 1: because there were the I mean, and I want to 753 00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:48,680 Speaker 1: say that one still existed like quite recently, but they 754 00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:53,120 Speaker 1: are these like men's only clubs where advertisers would take 755 00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:57,120 Speaker 1: clients you know, to do their like schmoozing and wheeling 756 00:50:57,160 --> 00:51:01,480 Speaker 1: and dealing. Um, and like, yeah, that is that is 757 00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:04,520 Speaker 1: the world where we're in. So no surprise if you 758 00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:07,920 Speaker 1: are someone is talented as say like a Carol H. Williams, 759 00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:12,359 Speaker 1: yeah you might as well just like make your own paper, um, 760 00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:16,360 Speaker 1: and a lot of us really explains the hot mess 761 00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:20,480 Speaker 1: that the ad industry finds itself in today with a 762 00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:26,240 Speaker 1: lot of these same issues still persisting. Has it gotten better? Yes? 763 00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:30,960 Speaker 1: Are more women even more women in the advertising industry, yes, 764 00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:37,800 Speaker 1: and there are more women in leadership positions, but there 765 00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:45,239 Speaker 1: are still very familiar roadblocks for women, especially like you said, um, 766 00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:48,160 Speaker 1: in the creative department. And we're going to talk about 767 00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:52,920 Speaker 1: all of that in our next episode, part two. So 768 00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:55,960 Speaker 1: in the meantime, I know that we have a lot 769 00:51:56,000 --> 00:52:00,360 Speaker 1: of folks in the industry listening to this and I 770 00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:04,000 Speaker 1: would love to hear your thoughts about this. Um. Mom 771 00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:06,920 Speaker 1: Stuff at how stuffworks dot com is our email address. 772 00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:10,239 Speaker 1: You can also tweet us at mom Stuff podcast or 773 00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:13,799 Speaker 1: messages on Facebook. And I realized that you know, we 774 00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:19,080 Speaker 1: just cited a limited list of these trailblazers in the 775 00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:22,000 Speaker 1: ad industries. So if there are rad women that we 776 00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:25,080 Speaker 1: did not mention that we should shout out, please also 777 00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:29,000 Speaker 1: let us know. And we've got a couple of letters 778 00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:35,480 Speaker 1: to share with you right now. Okay, Well, we've got 779 00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:39,640 Speaker 1: a set of letters here about our saggy boobs science episode. 780 00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:42,759 Speaker 1: This one's from Ashley. She says, Hi, ladies, just listen 781 00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:45,040 Speaker 1: to your podcast on boob sagging and it made me 782 00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:48,279 Speaker 1: so angry and a little self conscious, not at you, 783 00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:52,000 Speaker 1: but at the ridiculous standards we are held to. I'm 784 00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:54,720 Speaker 1: a thirty six h and according to the Tosa scale, 785 00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:58,200 Speaker 1: I've got some Grade two sagging going on. My boobs 786 00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:00,719 Speaker 1: have never been perky. They're so heavy that I have 787 00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:02,920 Speaker 1: large knots in my back that I have to constantly 788 00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:06,359 Speaker 1: get worked out by massage therapists and chiropractors. I've never 789 00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:09,840 Speaker 1: before expected them to defy gravity and not sag. In fact, 790 00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:13,080 Speaker 1: I'd be super surprised if they didn't sag. Despite this, 791 00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:16,960 Speaker 1: hearing about this scale made me feel abnormal, even though 792 00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:20,000 Speaker 1: you were pretty adamantly calling it out for its ridiculousness. 793 00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:23,640 Speaker 1: I wish people didn't find it necessary to quantify perceived 794 00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:27,120 Speaker 1: problems with women's bodies. Thanks for the great show, Keep 795 00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:28,920 Speaker 1: it up. I really look up to you as feminist 796 00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:31,279 Speaker 1: role models. Well thanks, Ashley, and I'm glad you're in 797 00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:34,080 Speaker 1: agreement about how silly the what do we call like 798 00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:38,719 Speaker 1: the Tosas Circus tight rope? Was the Tosas tight rope? Yeah, 799 00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:41,800 Speaker 1: that makes more sense alliteration. Okay, So I've got to 800 00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:45,279 Speaker 1: let her hear from Sharon also about our Tosas episode, 801 00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:48,320 Speaker 1: and she writes, First, I have two kids, and despite 802 00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:51,080 Speaker 1: returning to my pre pregnancy weight, my boobs are a 803 00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:55,520 Speaker 1: cup size bigger and let's just say, no longer self supporting. 804 00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:59,160 Speaker 1: But she says, the truth is my husband actually likes 805 00:53:59,239 --> 00:54:04,680 Speaker 1: sagging boom better than he did my perfect perky ones. Second, 806 00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:07,239 Speaker 1: you talked a lot about the ligaments. I felt a 807 00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:09,240 Speaker 1: lump in my breast and brought it to the attention 808 00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:12,640 Speaker 1: of my midwife. She scheduled a mammogram and an ultrasound, 809 00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:15,239 Speaker 1: and it turns out they said it was just that 810 00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:18,319 Speaker 1: I have firm ligaments. And I think she used the 811 00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:21,480 Speaker 1: word tough a few times, and it makes me feel 812 00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:25,520 Speaker 1: like a badass in some ways. Lastly, my series occasionally 813 00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:27,960 Speaker 1: comes on for no reason when listening to the podcast 814 00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:30,920 Speaker 1: and attempts to search for something. The host said it 815 00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:34,319 Speaker 1: tried to search a sentence that included boob science and 816 00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:37,160 Speaker 1: told me it couldn't find anything. Well, if that doesn't 817 00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:39,440 Speaker 1: sum up the lack of research, then I don't know 818 00:54:39,560 --> 00:54:43,400 Speaker 1: what does. Well. Thanks Sharon, and thanks to everybody who's 819 00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:46,359 Speaker 1: written into us mom stuff at how stuff works dot 820 00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:48,680 Speaker 1: com is our email address and for links to all 821 00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:50,880 Speaker 1: of our social media as well as all of our blogs, 822 00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:54,160 Speaker 1: videos and podcasts with our sources. So you can learn 823 00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:57,200 Speaker 1: more about the history of women in advertising, head on 824 00:54:57,239 --> 00:55:04,319 Speaker 1: over to stuff Mom Never Told You dot com. Um 825 00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:06,839 Speaker 1: or more on this and thousands of other topics, visit 826 00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:15,800 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com.