WEBVTT - Nvidia's New Chip and Elon Musk's Reported Drug Use 0:00:01.480 --> 0:00:06.760 From Bahart where Innovation, Money and Power Collie in Silicon Valley, NBN. 0:00:07.080 --> 0:00:11.119 This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed lud Love. 0:00:24.640 --> 0:00:27.520 I'm Caroline heinep Rumberg's Worldhie quarters in New York, and 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:29.080 I'm Ed Ludlow in San Francisco. 0:00:29.160 --> 0:00:31.840 This is Bloomberg Technology and Ed ces. 0:00:31.960 --> 0:00:34.600 It kicks off from Las Vegas and Video. It's already 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:37.560 unveiling new chips at the annual Tech event. Details ahead 0:00:37.560 --> 0:00:39.720 on the company's AI ambitions. 0:00:39.960 --> 0:00:42.839 And the Elon Musk's reported drug use is a new 0:00:42.880 --> 0:00:46.240 headache for the boards of Tesla and SpaceX. We discuss 0:00:46.280 --> 0:00:49.320 the legal risks and Musk's response. 0:00:49.040 --> 0:00:52.760 Us Instacart, it will begin showing advertisements on its high 0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:55.760 tech shopping carts in the latest addition to the company's 0:00:55.760 --> 0:00:59.240 growing ad business. Our exclusive interview with the CEO como the. 0:00:59.240 --> 0:01:03.840 Wall Street Journal reporting some historic drug use by Elon Musk, 0:01:03.880 --> 0:01:07.039 according to anonymous sources, that is worrying board members and 0:01:07.120 --> 0:01:10.640 staff at Tesla and SpaceX. Bloomberg's Max Chafkin, who's a 0:01:10.640 --> 0:01:14.039 member of the Elon Musk Inc. Pod, is going to 0:01:14.080 --> 0:01:16.080 come on and break down what is a very complicated 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:19.720 story If Tesla is the proxy for elon Musk sentiment, 0:01:20.080 --> 0:01:22.400 it is hired by six tens of one percent. Really 0:01:22.440 --> 0:01:27.160 big movement in semiconductors. Look particularly at Nvidia up almost 0:01:27.200 --> 0:01:30.480 five percent, but semiconductors broadly having a pretty good morning. 0:01:30.880 --> 0:01:33.520 You know, the socks was pretty downtrodden in the final 0:01:33.520 --> 0:01:36.440 trading days of twenty twenty three. It's somewhat of a rebound, 0:01:36.480 --> 0:01:40.240 but in the last hour some news. Nvidia announced new 0:01:40.240 --> 0:01:46.480 products to help the personal computer industry lower consumers with AIPCS, 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:49.640 which will let gamers, designers, and other computer users make 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:52.280 better use of AI on personal machines. I want to 0:01:52.280 --> 0:01:55.240 bring in bloombergs Ian King, who's been tracking the keynote 0:01:55.240 --> 0:01:57.720 at CEES and the details. What are these chips that 0:01:57.720 --> 0:01:58.560 we're talking about in. 0:01:59.000 --> 0:02:01.320 Yeah, I mean these are real, just updates to its 0:02:01.400 --> 0:02:04.600 existing range of chips. What it's done is put in 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:08.160 a few more new components that are going to help 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:13.280 with the AI processing, some new cores, some better memory bandwidth, 0:02:13.320 --> 0:02:15.959 and it's also adjust the prices, made the prices a 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:17.560 little bit more attractive as well. 0:02:18.280 --> 0:02:21.400 Just an update in Yet, the stock rally is hard. 0:02:21.440 --> 0:02:24.200 We're back at a all time high for in video 0:02:24.280 --> 0:02:27.760 shares best days since August the twenty first, twenty twenty three. 0:02:28.160 --> 0:02:30.359 Is it just that we needed a moon music shift? 0:02:30.440 --> 0:02:33.120 Is it just because AI actually is everything to this 0:02:33.160 --> 0:02:34.040 particular company? 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:37.760 Well, I mean, clearly, I think the last thing you 0:02:37.800 --> 0:02:40.880 said is the answer there. Clearly AI has been an 0:02:41.040 --> 0:02:44.720 enormous benefit for this company. Already, it's proved materially that 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:47.200 this is real, that this is about actual sales and 0:02:47.240 --> 0:02:50.880 actual deployment. Again, in video comes out here and says, hey, 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:55.639 don't forget about us. This AIPC, that Intel, that AMD 0:02:55.760 --> 0:02:57.480 has been talking about. We can do this too, and 0:02:57.520 --> 0:02:59.680 actually we think we're better than they are, so again 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:03.040 likely to press the right kind of button with investors, 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:04.320 and we're seeing that reaction. 0:03:04.840 --> 0:03:09.040 It's interesting the timing though. It's a ces keynote adjacent 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:11.480 CES because it's virtual. I'm about to get on a 0:03:11.480 --> 0:03:15.080 plane and go to Vegas hopefully. The story within video 0:03:15.200 --> 0:03:17.680 was the H one hundred. You know, a GPU that 0:03:17.720 --> 0:03:20.120 goes into a server design, that goes into a data center, 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:23.040 you build your large language models. This seems like in 0:03:23.160 --> 0:03:27.240 video reminding everyone, hey, we're actually pretty good at PC. 0:03:28.000 --> 0:03:29.160 Is it going to be important business? 0:03:29.200 --> 0:03:29.480 For them. 0:03:30.200 --> 0:03:32.640 I mean up until about a year ago, it was 0:03:32.680 --> 0:03:35.440 their biggest It was the one thing we talked about. 0:03:35.440 --> 0:03:36.960 G Force was their main product. 0:03:37.200 --> 0:03:38.960 The PC was what they were. 0:03:39.000 --> 0:03:42.560 That's where the volume is right, So it isn't going 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:46.000 to stay an important business for them right now, all 0:03:46.000 --> 0:03:49.560 the profits, all of the major games are from the 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:52.240 data center. But yeah, of course they used to open 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:55.320 CS every year with Hey, this bright, new shiny thing, 0:03:55.360 --> 0:03:57.400 and this is them reminding people, hey, we're still here 0:03:57.440 --> 0:04:00.000 as well. You really need to pay attention to us 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:00.600 this market. 0:04:00.640 --> 0:04:03.080 Maybe I'm reading too much into it. I mean last year, 0:04:03.120 --> 0:04:05.720 part of the story among many was kind of Jensen 0:04:05.800 --> 0:04:10.840 Kuang the leather jacket wearing next Elon musk type. Maybe 0:04:10.840 --> 0:04:15.480 today all days we won't make that comparison. But their 0:04:15.520 --> 0:04:19.679 momentum hasn't really stopped. You know, the stock is boring, 0:04:19.720 --> 0:04:23.640 I think it. Karen mentioned a fresh record high. What 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:26.640 is the story from Nvidia going into twenty twenty four. 0:04:27.200 --> 0:04:29.200 I mean, they have a whole host of new products, 0:04:29.760 --> 0:04:33.040 which we saw some of announced today and Jensen said, look, 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:35.839 we are actually going to speed up the cadence of 0:04:35.960 --> 0:04:40.160 new products that we announce. The story is will that 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:42.920 cadence keep them ahead of what Intel, what AMD and 0:04:42.960 --> 0:04:45.360 everybody else says they're going to do in that space. 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:49.080 Can they keep themselves that must have technology provider for 0:04:49.160 --> 0:04:51.200 that particular area. 0:04:51.320 --> 0:04:54.440 We see it one more than a trillion dollar valuations. 0:04:54.480 --> 0:04:57.240 That stands one point two seven trillion dollar market caps. 0:04:57.240 --> 0:05:01.279 So for now, investors still remain. Ever, please with Nvidia inking, 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:03.400 we thank you so much for breaking down what they're 0:05:03.400 --> 0:05:05.800 saying ahead of CES, and let's just stick with the 0:05:05.880 --> 0:05:09.880 overall value of generative AI, not just the individual companies, 0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:11.800 but the economy more broadly and how it's going to 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:14.520 be interweaved into basically every single industry group. Paul dog 0:05:14.560 --> 0:05:16.480 As he does that with US EX Center Chief Technology 0:05:16.480 --> 0:05:20.279 and Innovation Officer. And Paul, you've done the numbers, you've 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:22.200 crunched them. I want to go into how you get 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:24.480 the numbers, but talk to us to what the overall 0:05:24.520 --> 0:05:27.520 economic impact AI, generative AI you think is going to have. 0:05:28.920 --> 0:05:31.000 Well, well, I come to you hear from our Las 0:05:31.080 --> 0:05:33.440 Vegas and CES which you were just talking about, where 0:05:33.480 --> 0:05:36.560 AI is the theme here and as you said, our 0:05:36.640 --> 0:05:41.120 role in this is we help companies deploy technology solutions 0:05:41.160 --> 0:05:44.120 and generate AI clearly is the hot ticket right now. 0:05:44.760 --> 0:05:46.000 Ninety five percent. 0:05:45.720 --> 0:05:48.479 Of executives tell us they're going to increase spending on 0:05:48.560 --> 0:05:51.680 technology as they go into twenty twenty four, and ninety 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:55.479 seven percent of executives believe generative AI is transformative for 0:05:55.520 --> 0:05:57.919 the business that they're doing. And based on the research 0:05:57.960 --> 0:06:01.320 that we've done, we see that impact forty four percent 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:04.919 of all of the working hours across industries globally, and 0:06:05.000 --> 0:06:07.240 that adds up to about eight to ten trillion dollars 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:10.440 of economic value over the next several years as companies 0:06:10.480 --> 0:06:11.520 adopt generative AI. 0:06:12.040 --> 0:06:13.400 So it's a big impact. 0:06:13.480 --> 0:06:16.279 I believe of all the waves I've tracked over my career, 0:06:16.320 --> 0:06:18.080 all the technology waves, and this is a very much 0:06:18.080 --> 0:06:20.839 of a wave driven industry, as you know, this is 0:06:20.839 --> 0:06:23.160 the biggest one I believe in terms of the transformation 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:25.960 that it will drive for us as individuals, in terms 0:06:25.960 --> 0:06:27.479 of how we work and live, and in terms of 0:06:27.480 --> 0:06:30.440 businesses and how they and how they drive their technology. 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:35.479 Eight to ten trillion. How does that assert itself? What 0:06:35.560 --> 0:06:38.240 sort of value are you seeing is that by freeing 0:06:38.320 --> 0:06:41.840 up individuals? Is it about ability to preserve the bottom 0:06:41.839 --> 0:06:44.159 line for companies doing more and less? What is it 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:45.159 that drives that money. 0:06:45.600 --> 0:06:48.400 Well, it's an exciting thing about the generative AI and 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:51.440 the technology we're seeing now, the related technologies. We talk 0:06:51.520 --> 0:06:55.080 about this as an inflection point in the nature of technology. 0:06:55.480 --> 0:06:57.520 Technology has been it's been kind of the nuts and 0:06:57.560 --> 0:07:00.560 bolts and the plumbing, you know, the cloud and PCs 0:07:00.600 --> 0:07:03.719 and such, has been about the infrastructure. GENERATAI is about 0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:06.599 human capability. It's about looking in the mirror and seeing 0:07:06.640 --> 0:07:08.840 technology that does things kind of like what we do, 0:07:09.200 --> 0:07:10.960 and that's why it's so transformative. 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:12.400 So yes, it's about productivity. 0:07:12.440 --> 0:07:15.440 As you said, we believe it does drive tremendous productivity. 0:07:15.480 --> 0:07:20.840 For example, in a large telecommunications organization we applied generative 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:24.840 AI and customer service drove thirty percent productivity and sixty 0:07:24.880 --> 0:07:28.440 percent increase in customer satisfaction as a result. So it's 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:31.760 about productivity and the outcomes as well. But the interesting 0:07:31.760 --> 0:07:35.320 thing about generative AI is also can drive creativity and 0:07:35.360 --> 0:07:38.360 new ways of doing things. We're using it in our 0:07:38.400 --> 0:07:41.480 digital agency business that we call Centre Song to create 0:07:41.560 --> 0:07:45.200 new advertising campaigns, more creative, more personalized than what you 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:48.960 could have done before. And one final really unexpected maybe 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:50.800 benefit of generative AI. 0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:52.600 Is a benefit for the individual. 0:07:53.040 --> 0:07:57.400 We did an implementation for our sales organization and accenture 0:07:57.640 --> 0:08:01.360 a pilot of Generali how Well. One of the interesting 0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:04.160 findings was, yes it produced better results, Yes it produced 0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:09.120 better productivity, but it also increased people's satisfaction and their 0:08:09.160 --> 0:08:10.960 feeling of balance and the work they were doing because 0:08:10.960 --> 0:08:12.640 it took away some of the tasks they didn't want 0:08:12.680 --> 0:08:14.840 to do. There's a lot in this, and it's the 0:08:14.880 --> 0:08:16.920 early stages, but a lot for us to understand as 0:08:16.960 --> 0:08:19.720 we look toward how we're going to drive that big value. 0:08:19.480 --> 0:08:22.120 And so that sort of goes counterweight to some of 0:08:22.160 --> 0:08:25.600 the anxiety I think that have been across many an 0:08:25.640 --> 0:08:28.720 industry group, but I also think consultants and lawyers about 0:08:28.720 --> 0:08:32.160 what it really means about white collar jobs in the future. Paul, 0:08:32.200 --> 0:08:33.760 do you think them will erode jobs? 0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:37.320 Well, you know, I think there's it's going to change jobs. 0:08:37.320 --> 0:08:39.240 That's the way to think about it. It's not about 0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:41.880 AI taking over our jobs. And I think we've gotten 0:08:41.880 --> 0:08:44.320 that narrative wrong. There's been a lot of fear about 0:08:44.320 --> 0:08:46.600 AI coming for all the jobs, and I think that's 0:08:46.679 --> 0:08:48.800 kind of backwards. I think this is about how we 0:08:48.840 --> 0:08:52.560 can enhance what we as people do in how in 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:54.920 how we do things, and we talk about things like human. 0:08:54.800 --> 0:08:57.160 In the loop on jobs. Again, that's backwards. 0:08:57.160 --> 0:08:59.520 It's really about more about how can a person have 0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:02.679 a wing and help them be more productive. So I 0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:04.959 think the key thing is how do you bring along 0:09:05.000 --> 0:09:06.320 your workforce. 0:09:05.840 --> 0:09:07.520 That they're able to use these new tools. 0:09:07.559 --> 0:09:10.160 How does that customer service agent I talked about do 0:09:10.280 --> 0:09:14.280 their new job. In another example, in the energy industry, 0:09:14.360 --> 0:09:17.680 we've deployed generative AI as a worker safety assistant to 0:09:17.679 --> 0:09:20.439 help people do their work more safely, more cognizant of 0:09:20.520 --> 0:09:23.560 regulations and policy as well as their own personal safety. 0:09:24.080 --> 0:09:26.120 And these types of things are going to help people 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:29.719 and make jobs more interesting. And in fact, one of 0:09:30.040 --> 0:09:33.319 one piece of data from research that we're releasing right 0:09:33.320 --> 0:09:35.840 now talks about the fact that ninety five percent of 0:09:35.880 --> 0:09:39.600 workers are actually excited about how generative AI can change 0:09:39.640 --> 0:09:40.880 the nature of the work that they're doing. 0:09:41.960 --> 0:09:42.920 Paul, you're a tech guy. 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:45.319 I'm jumping on a plane very soon to head out 0:09:45.320 --> 0:09:48.719 to Vegas to join you. AI is clearly the overarching 0:09:48.800 --> 0:09:53.800 theme across the keynotes, the exhibitors, whatever. But that's across healthcare, 0:09:53.840 --> 0:10:00.199 auto motive, software, consumer electronics, big box retail markets. Of 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:02.960 the speakers, give me just one example the thing that 0:10:03.000 --> 0:10:05.800 you think has the most substance coming out of CEES 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:06.360 this year. 0:10:07.720 --> 0:10:11.800 Well, I think the thing that's really exciting is is 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:15.160 I think the shift from a year of experimentation and 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:19.520 education around AI to moving into twenty twenty four as 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:22.720 the year when companies look to drive value at scale 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:26.760 with it. That's why you see the senior executives from Walmart, 0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:29.920 from best Buy, from Siemens and other companies, from Eccentric 0:10:29.920 --> 0:10:30.320 and other. 0:10:30.200 --> 0:10:31.319 Companies talking here. 0:10:31.800 --> 0:10:34.920 And it's about that shift to value and driving the value. 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:37.000 And that's where I think you're going to start to see, 0:10:37.400 --> 0:10:40.840 is you CES really at the convergence showing thousands of 0:10:40.880 --> 0:10:45.319 companies and new innovations around these technologies and organizations understanding 0:10:45.320 --> 0:10:47.720 how they use that to transform. And I think that's 0:10:47.760 --> 0:10:50.000 the real interesting point we're at with CES this year. 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:53.119 All Right, I see you out there, Paul Dotos at Accentia, 0:10:53.160 --> 0:10:54.439 Thank you for your time, Cara, what. 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:55.160 You got well? 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:58.800 Coming up? Instacrat expanding its ad business with high tech 0:10:58.880 --> 0:11:02.400 shopping cartsass of course going to be available to be 0:11:02.480 --> 0:11:05.679 interacting with it ces, I'm sure. Meanwhile, let's just look 0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:07.920 at the shares of what's happening with Apple as well. 0:11:07.920 --> 0:11:09.800 We know it's key when it comes to driving the 0:11:09.840 --> 0:11:12.439 points move on some of these key benchmarks. Interestingly, a 0:11:12.480 --> 0:11:14.319 bit of a bounce back on Apple today. We're at 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:16.400 one point eight percent. Of course, now's that more broadly 0:11:16.440 --> 0:11:19.520 on the higher side. Vision pro it goes on sale 0:11:19.520 --> 0:11:22.720 February second. Now, but remember Bloomberg Intelligence out with a 0:11:22.720 --> 0:11:25.480 great piece just saying, look, the addition that you're going 0:11:25.520 --> 0:11:29.760 to get in sales increase one point seventy five billion 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:32.880 dollars to be added to an annual revenue. Well, that's 0:11:32.920 --> 0:11:34.360 not nearly enough to make up for some of the 0:11:34.360 --> 0:11:36.680 consumer weakness going on in China. And that's what Jeffreys 0:11:36.760 --> 0:11:39.200 highlights today. Jeffrey's out with a note saying they see 0:11:39.200 --> 0:11:42.360 that in December sales in China fell some thirty percent 0:11:42.400 --> 0:11:45.560 according to their numbers. Fascinating. We continue to digest. This 0:11:45.600 --> 0:11:59.720 is Bloomberg Technology in sicart. We'll show advertisements on the 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:02.880 high tech shopping carts that it currently sells the grocery stores. 0:12:03.040 --> 0:12:05.439 The latest edition to the company is growing ads business 0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:08.800 and a sign of investment in products outside of grocery delivery. 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:11.640 I sat down for an exclusive conversation about it with 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:13.120 Fiji Simum. Take a listen. 0:12:15.440 --> 0:12:17.920 We have a lot of interest from retailers. 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:22.360 Now you can see Caper cards deployed at Kroger, Wake Firm, 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:27.240 Good Food, Holding, Sobse, Schnarks, and many more from Santa 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:30.960 Monica all the way to Manhattan. And we think in 0:12:32.160 --> 0:12:34.560 four we're going to have thousands of carts deployed. And 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:37.880 the reason they're really excited to deploy these carts in 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:39.720 store is because customers love them. 0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:41.200 We have a net promote or score of. 0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:44.680 Above seventy, which is very high, and we hear over 0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:48.720 and over from customers how fun the shopping journey becomes 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:51.280 when you're using the cards, and how convenient it is. 0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:53.199 So we really believe it's going to be the future 0:12:53.240 --> 0:12:54.560 of grocery shopping. 0:12:54.720 --> 0:12:57.720 Future for US shopping. How international can this get you? 0:12:57.800 --> 0:12:59.400 Of course, someone who is French and I know that 0:12:59.480 --> 0:13:02.160 Caper was already having exposure to Spain and to France, 0:13:02.200 --> 0:13:02.760 for example. 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:07.359 We certainly want to make that something that goes international 0:13:07.400 --> 0:13:09.800 as well. We're very focused on the US because that's 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:12.760 obviously your core market, but we do have interest from 0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:16.480 international retailers as well, so we're bullish on the international 0:13:16.480 --> 0:13:17.560 strategy as well. 0:13:17.880 --> 0:13:20.280 And all of this paint the picture for the direction 0:13:20.400 --> 0:13:24.240 of travel for Instacart, because is this trying to ensure 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:29.120 that you're not just purely an online play for retailers consumers, 0:13:29.320 --> 0:13:32.480 but also you've really managed to draw in higher margins 0:13:32.520 --> 0:13:35.400 through advertising. How much you're trying to broaden out what 0:13:35.440 --> 0:13:38.600 instacart really is to an investor and indeed, of course 0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:40.320 the retailer and a consumer. 0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:44.800 Well, when I joined Instacart, to me, was obvious that 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:48.240 we weren't just or three delivery AUP. We were already 0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:52.440 a company that was building technology to help retailers with 0:13:52.559 --> 0:13:56.080 this big digital transformation happening, and we were doing that 0:13:56.200 --> 0:13:59.920 primarily through e commerce obviously, and so we skip up 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:04.800 we're really expanding into building technologies for the store because 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:07.640 what we believe is that customers are not going to 0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:10.000 shop just online of just in stalls. 0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:12.040 They are going to shop omni channels. 0:14:12.320 --> 0:14:16.480 And the retailers who really create the best, most similar 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:19.480 omni channel experience all the retailers that are going to 0:14:19.520 --> 0:14:23.080 gain an edge, and instagrat is giving them this edge, and. 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:26.400 Does it give you an edge versus who analysts might 0:14:26.440 --> 0:14:29.440 say are your competitors. There is worry from some analysts 0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:32.040 that Uber, door Dash are going to eaten on some 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:35.240 of your market share, that Amazon and Walmart are so 0:14:35.680 --> 0:14:38.320 good at omni channel as well. How does this carve 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:39.160 you a niche? 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:45.560 Well, we already are very clear category leader in grocery 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:50.960 and in grocery delivery, and here like this, this launch 0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:54.520 really proves that we have a completely different strategy from 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:58.560 these players. Our strategy is to enable retailers with all 0:14:58.600 --> 0:15:01.560 of the technologies they need to run their business, and 0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:04.120 that applies online and that's why we have you know, 0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:08.120 the vast majority of retailers already on our platform, well 0:15:08.160 --> 0:15:11.840 above any competitor, but also now helping them with their 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:15.320 store and helping them with creating a new revenue line 0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:18.160 for them because as we launch advertising on keeper cars, 0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:22.120 we are sharing revenue with retailers and therefore you know, 0:15:22.280 --> 0:15:25.520 helping them grow their business both online and in store. 0:15:25.800 --> 0:15:29.200 That's a completely different strategy from some of the marketplace 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:34.840 you mentioned, where these marketplaces are really just about growing 0:15:34.960 --> 0:15:38.120 their marketplace and in fact, in some cases even competing 0:15:38.160 --> 0:15:41.000 with retailers. We don't do that with labor retailers. 0:15:42.560 --> 0:15:46.760 Fijisima of instacar and Instacar or Maple Barrows, however, we 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:49.280 want to discuss it carding out two point three percent 0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:51.920 on the trading day at the moment and our explicit 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:53.200 conversation with the CEO. 0:15:53.000 --> 0:16:03.760 That okay, it's time for talking tech. And first up 0:16:03.800 --> 0:16:06.520 in the news Sony planning to call off its ten 0:16:06.560 --> 0:16:09.400 billion dollar merger pact of its India unit was Z 0:16:09.600 --> 0:16:12.720 Entertainment that according to sources, the move caps two years 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:15.880 of drama and delay in creating a ten billion dollar 0:16:15.920 --> 0:16:19.160 media giant, and the standoff has been over whether Z's 0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:23.400 CEO would eventually lead the merged entity. And Microsoft has 0:16:23.400 --> 0:16:27.640 picked longtime executive d Templeton to join open AI's board 0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:31.000 as a non voting observer. That according to Bloomberg sources, 0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:33.880 Templeton has worked at Microsoft for more than twenty five 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:37.920 years and it's the company's vice president for Technology and Research, 0:16:38.000 --> 0:16:42.600 Partnerships and Operations. Plus Elon Musk's reported drug use by 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:46.400 the Wall Street Journal is worrying Tesla and SpaceX's board. 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:50.280 Members of Wall Street Journal cited anonymous sources and witnesses. 0:16:50.520 --> 0:16:52.880 Now they've got a big decision whether to do anything 0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:56.320 about it with Elon Musk and the financial or legal 0:16:56.440 --> 0:16:59.400 risk the reporting could pose to those companies. 0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:03.640 Carroc dive deeper into that story, pretty serious allegations, and 0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:06.960 again this quandary left for the board members, as you say, ed, 0:17:07.040 --> 0:17:09.640 and it's a familiar on what to do, if anything 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:12.960 about Mask, about legal financial repercussions of course, and what 0:17:13.000 --> 0:17:15.280 it means for his companies that he manages. Well, we're 0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:17.600 pleased to have an expert with us, Max Chafkin, business 0:17:17.680 --> 0:17:20.080 economist and one of the members of Elon Inc. Podcast 0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:23.040 which has taken Broombay by storm. Look reports by the 0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:27.400 journal that Musk has been using LSD, cocaine, ecstasy, psychedelic mushrooms, 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:30.680 often at private parties. You know, Musk himself has come 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:33.960 out on his own social media platform, what do you say? 0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:34.480 What did you make? 0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:38.160 Well, he's he's sort of swung in various directions. At 0:17:38.160 --> 0:17:40.560 some times he said, well, whatever I'm taking, I should 0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:44.320 continue taking it, basically pointing to the performance and also 0:17:44.359 --> 0:17:45.720 the fact that a lot of this stuff, or at 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:47.600 least some of it, has happened more or less in 0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:51.119 the open you know, he smoked marijuana on Joe Rogan's podcast. 0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:54.359 He has said he has a prescription for ketamine, which is, 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:56.399 you know, a party drug. He said he's using it, 0:17:56.440 --> 0:17:59.680 you know, to treat depression. But he's also said that 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:03.440 SpaceX has been required to drug test him as part 0:18:03.480 --> 0:18:06.280 of the Joe Rogan fallout thing, and he said he's 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:09.399 never failed a drug test. So he's sort of essentially saying, 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:13.080 number one, this is overblown. Number two, the companies are 0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:15.520 doing great, so you know, what's the big deal. 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:19.320 The thing is that either the Wall Street Journal report 0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:23.040 is accurate, right Max, its cites anonymous sources, or it's not. 0:18:23.160 --> 0:18:24.960 And this was the post that caught my eye. Elon 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:28.760 must saying that following that Joe Rogan appearance twenty eighteen, 0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:33.199 at NASA's request, he agreed to random drug testing of 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:36.439 a period of three years. We've asked the comment from 0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:40.000 NASA and from SpaceX, but if the drug testing took place, 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:42.000 we'd have more to go on with this story. 0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:45.119 Yeah, I mean, the Journal's article mentions the fact that 0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:48.159 he was drug tested. It also notes that, you know, 0:18:48.240 --> 0:18:50.960 some of the drugs they're talking about are not traditionally 0:18:50.960 --> 0:18:53.240 at least according to the Wall Street Journal, in that 0:18:53.400 --> 0:18:56.679 kind of drug test, So we're talking about psychedelics, that 0:18:56.920 --> 0:19:00.000 is the allegation, in addition to some of the things 0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:03.840 Caroline just mentioned. So again it's not totally clear what 0:19:03.920 --> 0:19:07.440 he would be testing positive for. And I don't think 0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:10.159 it's hugely surprising that he's been drug tested, because of 0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:13.160 course a lot of government contractors drug test employees. 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:16.080 Less than a minute max. But this comes down to 0:19:16.160 --> 0:19:19.440 ultimately a board who's some warrior just too close to him. 0:19:19.760 --> 0:19:22.639 Well, I think with Elon Musk, you know, there's the 0:19:22.640 --> 0:19:25.679 conversation around drug tests, and then there's the bigger conversation 0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:29.600 around sort of the erratic behavior, and sometimes we're talking 0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:32.280 about drugs. I think what we're really speaking about is 0:19:32.280 --> 0:19:34.439 the fact that he tweets weird stuff sometimes in the. 0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:35.120 Middle of the night. 0:19:35.280 --> 0:19:37.760 And I think in general, as long as the companies 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:40.440 have done well, boards have been okay with it, investors 0:19:40.480 --> 0:19:41.359 have been okay with it. 0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:42.680 And the real question is. 0:19:42.920 --> 0:19:46.000 When Tesla or SpaceX or one of these other companies 0:19:46.119 --> 0:19:48.760 hits a rough patch, what happens then I think that 0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:51.200 will be if and when that happens, that will be when. 0:19:51.040 --> 0:19:54.080 The rubber needs a road and it's not concerning tester 0:19:54.160 --> 0:19:56.639 investors right now with the stock in positive territy, blion 0:19:56.640 --> 0:20:07.280 Bergs Max Chafkin, thank you very much. Welcome back to 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:10.560 Bloomberg Technology. Ed love loow here in San Francisco. 0:20:10.119 --> 0:20:11.720 ALN hired in New York. Let's get you a check 0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:13.679 on these markets, because we're back in rally mode for 0:20:13.680 --> 0:20:15.800 the day, at least in certainly across tech, but across 0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:18.280 the broader indices today bit of an everything rally across 0:20:18.280 --> 0:20:20.800 the United States. And I'm going to the individual names 0:20:20.800 --> 0:20:23.440 first and foremost. So let's stick into what's happening in video. 0:20:23.480 --> 0:20:25.240 Of course, this is at a record high, leading the 0:20:25.320 --> 0:20:27.080 charge in terms of points being added to the Nasdaq 0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:30.399 and the Nasdaq one hundred video launches, well, should we 0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:34.359 just say updates. It's AIPC chips and the market likest 0:20:34.359 --> 0:20:36.240 ahead of CEES. We're up more than four percent, so 0:20:36.280 --> 0:20:38.000 a new record high for a video. Look at what's 0:20:38.000 --> 0:20:40.320 happening in the world of Twilio though, also riding high, 0:20:40.440 --> 0:20:42.479 and this is as it's co founder Jeff Railson is 0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:45.320 having to move stage left. Basically he's having to step 0:20:45.359 --> 0:20:47.560 down from the company and back off because many had 0:20:47.560 --> 0:20:50.080 felt that he's really too synonymous with just spending too 0:20:50.160 --> 0:20:52.560 much and not really focusing on non profitability. But his 0:20:52.760 --> 0:20:55.360 right hand man for the past few years is basically 0:20:55.600 --> 0:20:58.119 taking over, so many questioning whether that really is going 0:20:58.160 --> 0:21:00.280 to exert any sort of change in leadership. This is, 0:21:00.280 --> 0:21:02.679 of course, activist investors at play when it comes to 0:21:02.680 --> 0:21:05.280 Twilio Apple. On the upside as well, after it would 0:21:05.280 --> 0:21:07.159 have been five straight days of losses, Apple managed to 0:21:07.160 --> 0:21:09.720 regain some ground, vision pro goes and sell February. The 0:21:09.800 --> 0:21:12.920 second also extraordinary story regarding the iPhone and how that's 0:21:12.960 --> 0:21:15.880 been entangled with the disaster on that Boeing seventy seven 0:21:15.920 --> 0:21:17.680 Max nine. We'll dig into that a little bit later, 0:21:17.920 --> 0:21:20.200 but notable on a day that Jeffrey's analysts are saying 0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:22.200 like they could be seeing a sell off in terms 0:21:22.240 --> 0:21:25.000 of revenue, in terms of consumer demand lacking by thirty 0:21:25.040 --> 0:21:27.720 percent year on year in China. So we dig into 0:21:27.720 --> 0:21:29.080 all of that in a moment, but let's look at 0:21:29.080 --> 0:21:30.800 some of the big benchmarks and what's happening in terms 0:21:30.800 --> 0:21:33.160 of overall mood music. Because ed we are riding high, 0:21:33.160 --> 0:21:35.240 and that's that one hundred one point three percent not 0:21:35.280 --> 0:21:37.760 happening in China though, the Golden Dragon inex of course, 0:21:37.800 --> 0:21:40.480 this being the Nazda Golden Dragon. On the downside, despite 0:21:40.680 --> 0:21:43.280 more ammunition being fed into the Chinese economy in terms 0:21:43.320 --> 0:21:45.639 of well, the overall amount of money that banks have 0:21:45.720 --> 0:21:47.760 to hold, their ability to lend eased up but not 0:21:47.800 --> 0:21:50.520 helping so far. And Bitcoin we end there up two 0:21:50.560 --> 0:21:52.879 point four percent. We're back above forty five thousand dollars. 0:21:53.000 --> 0:21:56.399 As we anticipate the spot Bitcoin ETF being signed off. 0:21:56.440 --> 0:22:01.359 Do we think ed Bitcoin spot ETF watched day? I 0:22:01.359 --> 0:22:03.960 don't know what day. It's been months, black Rock Arc, 0:22:04.160 --> 0:22:08.440 several other perspective issuers of ETFs filed amended forms this 0:22:08.560 --> 0:22:11.760 morning and what's seen by analysts as a final push 0:22:12.080 --> 0:22:14.920 to offer the investment products. Joining us now is Sunny Singh, 0:22:15.080 --> 0:22:18.280 co founder and CEO of Bluega. Blueger offers software tools 0:22:18.520 --> 0:22:21.880 that allow users to manage their crypto portfolio but also 0:22:22.000 --> 0:22:24.359 use new crypto products. You are watching this closely. It 0:22:24.359 --> 0:22:28.960 will impact your business and your world. That news the 0:22:29.040 --> 0:22:31.840 updated forms, we have more information on fee structure which 0:22:31.840 --> 0:22:35.400 we can dig into. It seems like the weight might 0:22:35.520 --> 0:22:36.160 soon be over. 0:22:36.440 --> 0:22:38.399 Yeah, I mean we've been waiting for five years, so 0:22:38.440 --> 0:22:40.639 I think we're getting close. Whether or not they approve 0:22:40.680 --> 0:22:43.640 it this Wednesday or in the next three or sixty days, 0:22:43.680 --> 0:22:44.560 it's going to happen. 0:22:44.840 --> 0:22:47.160 The question is then when does it go live? Does 0:22:47.320 --> 0:22:48.480 sec the way the. 0:22:48.480 --> 0:22:50.640 S one funds and all that stuff, I don't think 0:22:50.680 --> 0:22:52.880 so I think they're kind of back against the wall. 0:22:53.000 --> 0:22:54.120 So I think they're in a given and. 0:22:54.080 --> 0:22:57.560 You'll see an ETF goal live Q one, Q two maybe. 0:22:57.840 --> 0:22:59.439 But the big question Gains I think, is going to 0:22:59.440 --> 0:23:01.800 do and say, okay, we'll give your bitcoin ETF, but 0:23:01.840 --> 0:23:04.239 we're not going to give you as ethereum and all 0:23:04.280 --> 0:23:06.320 those ones. He's already said that we think, you know, 0:23:06.359 --> 0:23:08.600 bitcoin is definitely not a security, but all the other 0:23:08.600 --> 0:23:09.520 ones we think are security. 0:23:09.600 --> 0:23:10.840 So he's not going to give it on those ones. 0:23:10.880 --> 0:23:13.439 We think you've been waiting five years. I've been waiting 0:23:13.480 --> 0:23:15.760 slightly less. Howro would point out there are others in 0:23:15.800 --> 0:23:18.280 the market that have been waiting much longer than five years. 0:23:18.600 --> 0:23:20.720 The other kind of data that we're getting now is 0:23:20.760 --> 0:23:23.560 the proposed fee structure. So if you think about Bluega 0:23:23.600 --> 0:23:27.040 and your customers accessing, what is a new product in 0:23:27.080 --> 0:23:31.520 the market, Why is the fee structure or fee proposed 0:23:31.520 --> 0:23:33.480 by the issuers important. 0:23:33.880 --> 0:23:35.520 Yeah, I think I don't think the fees are going 0:23:35.560 --> 0:23:37.600 to be ask super as important as people think, right, 0:23:37.640 --> 0:23:40.879 So I think like big pension funds like Kalpers and 0:23:40.920 --> 0:23:42.320 all them are going to probably go with the black 0:23:42.440 --> 0:23:45.040 rock and nutritional bigger ones as well. It's a smaller 0:23:45.080 --> 0:23:48.160 retail people who already had access to GBTC, which has 0:23:48.200 --> 0:23:50.480 had much higher feeso than like a bit wise we'll 0:23:50.480 --> 0:23:52.160 propose and all that kind of stuff. So I think 0:23:52.160 --> 0:23:54.360 the more retail investors will go off to the smaller 0:23:54.359 --> 0:23:56.760 fee ones, where the black Rocks and the bigger ones 0:23:56.840 --> 0:23:58.960 will get the higher big institutional investors. 0:23:59.000 --> 0:24:01.920 Actually, and what's interesting is many would say they don't 0:24:01.920 --> 0:24:04.280 want to make kingmakers is to perhaps what happened with 0:24:04.320 --> 0:24:09.160 the futures ETF prior times. They're trying to ensure that, well, 0:24:09.200 --> 0:24:10.840 this is gonna be a bit of a race to marketing. 0:24:10.880 --> 0:24:12.639 I would have thought to ensure that you get your 0:24:12.720 --> 0:24:15.240 name out there associated with a spot bitcoin ETF. But 0:24:15.320 --> 0:24:18.199 all of this attracts how much money, Sonny, have you 0:24:18.359 --> 0:24:20.640 put much research to it? How much of a change 0:24:21.000 --> 0:24:24.159 does this make to the ability to interact with bitcoin. 0:24:24.760 --> 0:24:25.840 It's going to be pretty exciting. 0:24:25.960 --> 0:24:28.000 And everyone relates back to what happened with the gold 0:24:28.040 --> 0:24:29.920 ETF when it was launched and all that, right, and 0:24:29.960 --> 0:24:31.760 if you do the same comparisons, you're going to see 0:24:31.920 --> 0:24:35.000 huge buying pressure that could happen in the crypto space. 0:24:35.000 --> 0:24:37.640 And again you're going to see institutional family office things 0:24:37.720 --> 0:24:39.359 like that, they're not going to put ten percent of 0:24:39.359 --> 0:24:42.280 their money into these bitcoin ETFs, but maybeer point five 0:24:42.440 --> 0:24:45.320 one percent, two percent, which is a lot when you 0:24:45.320 --> 0:24:47.960 think about it in perspective. And again, there's only nineteen 0:24:47.960 --> 0:24:50.840 million bitcoin in existence, it's a finite supply, right, and 0:24:50.840 --> 0:24:53.280 with the having coming in April, you're going to start 0:24:53.400 --> 0:24:56.680 having an increasing supplying pressure with an increased buying pressure 0:24:57.040 --> 0:24:59.840 unlike what we've never seen before in crypto, along with 0:25:00.040 --> 0:25:00.960 lower interest rates. 0:25:01.000 --> 0:25:02.720 Maybe by the end of the year, you really have 0:25:02.760 --> 0:25:03.520 a perfect storm. 0:25:03.600 --> 0:25:05.560 Is what we think could be a price catalyst to 0:25:05.560 --> 0:25:07.480 get bitcoin over one hundred thousand by the end of 0:25:07.480 --> 0:25:07.840 the year. 0:25:08.359 --> 0:25:11.480 What's so interesting is when you read between the lines, 0:25:11.480 --> 0:25:13.959 it feels like Gary Gensler really does not want to 0:25:14.000 --> 0:25:17.639 do this. He just put out a tweet, well, a post, 0:25:18.000 --> 0:25:21.640 a thread of posts and this time really talking about 0:25:21.640 --> 0:25:24.920 how investments in crypto assets could also can be exceptionally 0:25:25.040 --> 0:25:27.560 risky and off a volatile and number of major platforms 0:25:27.560 --> 0:25:30.720 and crypto assets have become insolvent and or lost value. 0:25:31.000 --> 0:25:34.240 Investments in crypto assets continue to be subject to significant risk. 0:25:34.520 --> 0:25:38.280 I mean, he's doing this through clenched teeth. If he 0:25:38.359 --> 0:25:41.040 does it at all, sunny, what if it doesn't happen 0:25:41.080 --> 0:25:43.360 on January the tenth, But what if we don't, we're 0:25:43.359 --> 0:25:44.840 not able to trade it immediately. 0:25:45.800 --> 0:25:47.679 Yeah, So again, I think it will happen the next 0:25:47.760 --> 0:25:49.439 thirty sixty days. But a bigger question is when does 0:25:49.440 --> 0:25:51.720 it go live? And how long can he delay it 0:25:51.720 --> 0:25:54.600 from going live? And I think, you know, April May 0:25:54.720 --> 0:25:56.880 June time frame is realistic for it to be live. 0:25:56.960 --> 0:25:58.320 I think past that he. 0:25:58.320 --> 0:26:00.240 Runs legal risk and all that, and I think again, 0:26:00.240 --> 0:26:02.360 in his mind, he's going to the compromise, like I'm 0:26:02.359 --> 0:26:04.240 going to give you the bitcoin ETF, but I'm not 0:26:04.240 --> 0:26:08.480 going to give you soana ethereum kran Exedger. We'll deal 0:26:08.480 --> 0:26:10.119 with all that next year, and then the crypto community 0:26:10.119 --> 0:26:12.280 will be happy, just in the bitcoin win out the 0:26:12.280 --> 0:26:13.160 door for the ETF. 0:26:13.720 --> 0:26:18.040 Sonny, you mentioned the harving as a key event future 0:26:18.040 --> 0:26:21.440 catalyst for bitcoin in twenty twenty four. Many other guests 0:26:21.560 --> 0:26:26.760 last week also referenced that, And my question is what 0:26:26.920 --> 0:26:30.320 is your kind of big picture bitcoin cool for twenty 0:26:30.359 --> 0:26:33.680 twenty four. Because we started this conversation a few weeks 0:26:33.680 --> 0:26:36.720 ago with the absolute belief that what was driving the 0:26:36.800 --> 0:26:41.199 trading in bitcoin or the price activity was anticipation of 0:26:41.200 --> 0:26:43.960 spot ETF. Actually there's plenty of evidence that there's a 0:26:44.000 --> 0:26:44.959 lot more to it than that. 0:26:45.160 --> 0:26:45.360 Yep. 0:26:45.520 --> 0:26:47.600 I think the having is actually a bigger catalyst to that, 0:26:47.680 --> 0:26:51.119 and so they're having alone would normally propel bitcoin to 0:26:51.119 --> 0:26:53.240 an all time high, probably each in the four years 0:26:53.240 --> 0:26:55.560 it happens, right, And what happens is in April when 0:26:55.560 --> 0:26:58.320 the having happens, and normally the dug event nothing happens. 0:26:58.359 --> 0:26:59.840 The price actually goes down a little bit. 0:27:00.119 --> 0:27:03.000 And then six months later when you really see as 0:27:03.000 --> 0:27:05.160 it's stilled through the system, the effects of it, right, 0:27:05.160 --> 0:27:07.920 and combine that with the bitcoin ETF, we think again, 0:27:08.480 --> 0:27:11.840 the price would you go from forty five fifty thousand 0:27:11.920 --> 0:27:13.879 three months from now and six months from now to 0:27:14.320 --> 0:27:16.399 one hundred real fast? Once it gets the sixty, we 0:27:16.440 --> 0:27:18.959 think the it's queen slate to one hundred and when 0:27:18.960 --> 0:27:21.280 it hits one hundred thousand for bitcoin, it becomes a 0:27:21.320 --> 0:27:24.120 two trillion dollar market cap currency and then the media 0:27:24.160 --> 0:27:25.680 and all that the frenzy will be huge by the 0:27:25.720 --> 0:27:26.280 end of the year. 0:27:26.400 --> 0:27:27.840 So again we think Q. 0:27:27.760 --> 0:27:29.680 Three, Q four, you're going to see a lot of 0:27:29.680 --> 0:27:32.280 excitement the price of bitcoin. Q two under having not 0:27:32.400 --> 0:27:33.080 so much. 0:27:33.720 --> 0:27:36.879 Beluuga, You're you're saying that you're cunning through the noise, 0:27:36.920 --> 0:27:40.639 basically helping people understand which projects are the ones, the 0:27:40.680 --> 0:27:44.360 safest products to be and interacting with investing in Ultimately 0:27:44.400 --> 0:27:48.840 bitcoin is that an investment, a store of value? Many 0:27:48.920 --> 0:27:53.040 want to see for crypto purpose, real deployment, a change, 0:27:53.160 --> 0:27:57.080 fixing a problem. When does that actually become more nuanced 0:27:57.160 --> 0:27:58.920 or clear to an investor base. 0:27:59.680 --> 0:28:00.919 Yeah, that's what we're hoping. 0:28:01.200 --> 0:28:04.560 We hope end of the year we start seeing more payments, products, 0:28:04.600 --> 0:28:08.119 lending products, taking products. Again, we believe the mission of 0:28:08.119 --> 0:28:10.800 bitcoin and crypto is not just buy and hold. It's 0:28:10.840 --> 0:28:14.200 buy and hold, stake, play, earned use, lend, pay, etc. 0:28:14.720 --> 0:28:16.119 There's a lot of things that can be done with 0:28:16.160 --> 0:28:19.359 bitcoin besides the speculation, as well as crypto in general. 0:28:19.520 --> 0:28:22.720 We're seeing the launch of web three games happen, crypto payments, 0:28:22.720 --> 0:28:25.359 crypto lending products. So there is again there's four hundred 0:28:25.359 --> 0:28:26.960 million people in the warld of crypto and only about 0:28:26.960 --> 0:28:28.480 ten percent our power users. 0:28:28.240 --> 0:28:29.840 Doing things besides just buy and holding. 0:28:30.080 --> 0:28:31.400 I'll go up with weiogle is to get the other 0:28:31.480 --> 0:28:33.919 ninety three hundred and fifty million to start using crypto 0:28:33.920 --> 0:28:34.440 in the right way. 0:28:34.480 --> 0:28:36.440 There's a much more out there than just buy and hold. 0:28:37.040 --> 0:28:38.960 Sunny saying, going to have some time with you co 0:28:39.040 --> 0:28:43.000 found a CEO of Beluga. Stay well. Meanwhile, coming up, look, 0:28:43.120 --> 0:28:45.480 we'll have all the latest in the world of health tech. 0:28:45.920 --> 0:28:48.000 This is of course, it's the JP Morgan Health Conference. 0:28:48.000 --> 0:28:50.000 It kicks off in San Francisco. But then we've got 0:28:50.040 --> 0:28:51.360 something else to look out for ahead of it. 0:28:52.160 --> 0:28:55.520 Yeah, some news crossing in the last few minutes. Du Lingo, 0:28:55.680 --> 0:28:59.320 the language learning software company, is cutting ten percent of 0:28:59.360 --> 0:29:03.320 its contractor workforce, a spokesperson telling Bloomberg that ten percent 0:29:03.360 --> 0:29:06.720 of contractors were off boarded because the company wants to 0:29:07.040 --> 0:29:10.600 focus more work on AI driving its development and growth. 0:29:10.640 --> 0:29:13.600 Nine billion dollar market cap company. No sharp reaction in 0:29:13.640 --> 0:29:16.080 trading to those headlines. The stock was already up the 0:29:16.240 --> 0:29:19.960 now three point eight percent higher. This is Bloomberg Technology, 0:29:30.840 --> 0:29:32.080 all right. There's been a lot of M and A 0:29:32.240 --> 0:29:35.560 news in the world of biotech today, with Harpoon Therapeutics 0:29:35.560 --> 0:29:37.640 near a deal to be acquired by drug maker Merck 0:29:37.760 --> 0:29:41.200 and Co. At about seven hundred million dollar value. Meanwhile, 0:29:41.240 --> 0:29:44.040 Johnson and Johnson will pay two billion dollars in cash 0:29:44.160 --> 0:29:47.320 to acquire Ambricks buy a Farmer gaining a developer of 0:29:47.400 --> 0:29:50.920 widely sought therapies that target tumors with lethal drugs. I 0:29:50.920 --> 0:29:52.800 want to break it all down with VJ Pandey found 0:29:52.840 --> 0:29:55.520 a founding general partner of Nderies and Horowitz by a 0:29:55.560 --> 0:30:01.240 health tech group. Interesting timing is jphit Morgan's healthcare conference. 0:30:01.320 --> 0:30:03.640 The annual one is on here in SF. I've covered 0:30:03.680 --> 0:30:05.880 a few of those. You've been to a few of those. 0:30:06.360 --> 0:30:08.280 It is interesting though that there is some m and 0:30:08.320 --> 0:30:13.440 a here in call it biopharmer biotech healthcare. What's your 0:30:13.520 --> 0:30:14.720 kind of tea leave read of that? 0:30:14.920 --> 0:30:17.240 Yeah, Well it's GPM, right, so there's going to be fireworks. 0:30:17.280 --> 0:30:19.160 That's what we're all kind of looking for, you know, 0:30:19.520 --> 0:30:23.960 sort of in the inside baseball. Clearly the ideal window 0:30:23.960 --> 0:30:26.000 has been closed for a while or it has been 0:30:26.440 --> 0:30:28.640 barely open, and so M and A will be a 0:30:28.720 --> 0:30:31.000 natural consequence of that. And so I think we were 0:30:31.040 --> 0:30:33.560 starting to see a little bit that this year, probably 0:30:33.880 --> 0:30:35.760 maybe a little more than last year. But I think 0:30:35.760 --> 0:30:38.280 probably the big, big sort of fireworks come maybe in 0:30:38.360 --> 0:30:38.720 a year. 0:30:39.000 --> 0:30:41.800 Right. My experience of JP Morgan's Healthcare Conference is kind 0:30:41.840 --> 0:30:45.200 of similar to CS other tech conferences, and that it's 0:30:45.240 --> 0:30:47.440 the one time of the year where everyone's in one place. Yes, 0:30:47.520 --> 0:30:49.480 you can take a lot of meetings. I call it 0:30:49.560 --> 0:30:52.560 speed dating. But you raise an interesting point. M and 0:30:52.640 --> 0:30:57.240 A is one other exit strategy for a VC like you. 0:30:57.240 --> 0:30:59.600 You look at your portfolio right now in twenty twenty 0:30:59.640 --> 0:31:02.320 four d you see some exit opportunity down that route. 0:31:02.520 --> 0:31:04.720 Yeah, I mean, I mean A. But also the IPA 0:31:04.760 --> 0:31:07.320 window may open. I think interest rates may go down. 0:31:07.600 --> 0:31:09.600 We expect that. So maybe by the end of the 0:31:09.680 --> 0:31:12.479 year Q two, Q three, Q four, that window may 0:31:12.520 --> 0:31:14.800 be open. I think people are preparing for that. The 0:31:14.840 --> 0:31:15.760 market has to be there. 0:31:15.680 --> 0:31:17.480 Of course, you think people are, you know people are. 0:31:18.640 --> 0:31:20.640 I've seen that people. 0:31:20.400 --> 0:31:25.880 Are good little prodding that and at vj AI has 0:31:25.920 --> 0:31:28.560 been almost what dictated the companies that couldn't get out 0:31:28.600 --> 0:31:30.800 the gate. Last year, a lot of them had AI 0:31:30.960 --> 0:31:33.640 within their very business model, or they tried to amp 0:31:33.760 --> 0:31:35.320 up the fact that it was a player on AI 0:31:35.520 --> 0:31:38.240 as well as also profitability. But is AI going to 0:31:38.240 --> 0:31:41.480 be a dictator of which biotech companies come forward or 0:31:41.560 --> 0:31:43.840 is it actually just been solving a real problem with 0:31:44.000 --> 0:31:45.640 profitability as it stands. 0:31:46.880 --> 0:31:47.680 So right now? 0:31:47.720 --> 0:31:49.880 The thing about AI is that I think last year 0:31:49.920 --> 0:31:53.040 was the year where AI was really further developed, and 0:31:53.040 --> 0:31:55.000 this year is where it really starts to get implemented, 0:31:55.040 --> 0:31:57.840 both in life sciences and healthcare more broadly. And that's 0:31:57.840 --> 0:32:00.520 something that incumbents would love to do, but it's hard. 0:32:00.560 --> 0:32:03.640 It's really fundamentally changing the way that company works, and 0:32:03.720 --> 0:32:05.800 so startups will be a way to do that. And 0:32:05.840 --> 0:32:08.200 that's been the history of all technological revolutions. 0:32:08.480 --> 0:32:13.080 What's interesting is many on the more optimistic side of 0:32:13.360 --> 0:32:16.480 use and practicality and necessity of AI talk up the 0:32:16.520 --> 0:32:19.080 impact on healthcare as a real reason that we shouldn't 0:32:19.120 --> 0:32:22.440 hold back innovation here for fear of it being a 0:32:22.480 --> 0:32:25.960 step too far and we shouldn't regulate it for real perspective. 0:32:26.000 --> 0:32:29.160 How is that ongoing conversation going generative AI and the 0:32:29.200 --> 0:32:30.880 impact on healthcare being safe. 0:32:32.280 --> 0:32:34.120 Well, you know, I don't think it's a question about 0:32:34.200 --> 0:32:37.920 not regulating it, because healthcare and life sciences are already regulated, right, 0:32:38.200 --> 0:32:40.520 So the question is do we need any more regulation? 0:32:40.960 --> 0:32:44.160 And given the challenges that we're facing in terms of 0:32:44.440 --> 0:32:48.840 curing diseases treating patients, the opportunity here is for really 0:32:48.960 --> 0:32:51.640 fundingly advance our space, and we already have a regulatory 0:32:51.640 --> 0:32:53.200 framework to make sure that can be done safely. 0:32:53.760 --> 0:32:56.080 One of the big stories toward the end of the 0:32:56.120 --> 0:32:59.400 year Karen and I covered with Crisper and the developments there. 0:32:59.440 --> 0:33:04.080 For example, we refer to health tech biotech as a 0:33:04.120 --> 0:33:06.960 blanket term, but within that there is so much And 0:33:07.040 --> 0:33:09.800 I wondered if you have a clear area of excitement 0:33:09.840 --> 0:33:13.840 for twenty twenty four, a very specific technology or issue 0:33:13.840 --> 0:33:15.640 that you think will be challenged or tackled. 0:33:16.080 --> 0:33:16.720 Yeah, I think. 0:33:16.840 --> 0:33:18.760 You know, we've talked about AI, and I think what's 0:33:18.760 --> 0:33:21.360 happening right now is that AI is coming to bear 0:33:21.600 --> 0:33:24.920 at a time where biology also is fundamentally changing. Biology 0:33:24.960 --> 0:33:27.520 is becoming much more of an engineering discipline, and Crisper 0:33:27.520 --> 0:33:29.840 is one example of that, but there's many examples, especially 0:33:29.840 --> 0:33:32.440 with all these new modalities and so a combination of 0:33:32.480 --> 0:33:35.120 being able to engineer biology and gather huge amounts of 0:33:35.160 --> 0:33:37.160 data is coming at the same time that we have 0:33:37.240 --> 0:33:39.800 AI to use that data. That combination is something that 0:33:39.840 --> 0:33:41.600 I think we're going to see as the sort of 0:33:41.880 --> 0:33:44.240 key power of pushing this industry for the next decade. 0:33:44.720 --> 0:33:48.960 Bench captalysts are long term, long duration investors have long 0:33:49.000 --> 0:33:52.120 time horizons. But what's your strategy for twenty twenty four? 0:33:52.360 --> 0:33:54.320 What types of company will you invest in? 0:33:54.560 --> 0:33:56.840 Yeah, so I think we're going to see some advances 0:33:56.840 --> 0:33:58.959 in AI. But actually the reality is that even if 0:33:59.000 --> 0:34:01.600 AI doesn't advance any more than is to date, the 0:34:01.640 --> 0:34:04.840 implementation of AI is going to change our field. That 0:34:04.880 --> 0:34:07.800 we're moving from an area where it's sort of bespoken 0:34:08.000 --> 0:34:11.680 artis into a true industrial revolution, and that industrialization is 0:34:11.719 --> 0:34:14.640 a huge change itself. And so the implementation of AI 0:34:14.719 --> 0:34:16.719 is going to dominate twenty four and we're looking to 0:34:16.719 --> 0:34:18.279 see not just who can innovate in the space, but 0:34:18.320 --> 0:34:19.160 who can actually. 0:34:18.880 --> 0:34:19.560 Put it to work. 0:34:20.040 --> 0:34:22.280 And to that point, you think of a portfolio company 0:34:22.320 --> 0:34:26.880 like a benchling, which is ultimately allowing R and D 0:34:27.040 --> 0:34:30.640 to be shared stop some of the limitations and in 0:34:30.680 --> 0:34:35.719 the paperwork and individual siloed particular labs have and an 0:34:35.760 --> 0:34:38.400 ability to actually share your learnings and drive it forward. 0:34:38.640 --> 0:34:41.200 When you are looking at your portfolio companies, have they 0:34:41.280 --> 0:34:43.720 done enough, do you think, in this environment to ensure 0:34:43.760 --> 0:34:46.520 that they're focusing on growth, not at any cost, but 0:34:46.560 --> 0:34:47.200 the right cost. 0:34:48.880 --> 0:34:49.120 Yeah. 0:34:49.360 --> 0:34:51.680 I think the growth is something where it's always a 0:34:51.719 --> 0:34:54.560 key part of a startup, but I think right now 0:34:54.600 --> 0:34:57.160 the opportunity is that a lot of these startups in 0:34:57.160 --> 0:34:59.600 life sciences and healthcare have been on a different curve, 0:34:59.640 --> 0:35:02.040 and I think as they become tech companies and AI 0:35:02.120 --> 0:35:03.759 is a very natural way for them to become a 0:35:03.800 --> 0:35:07.960 tech company, the growth will come along for the ride. 0:35:08.239 --> 0:35:10.440 And that's actually probably the excitement here is that typically 0:35:10.440 --> 0:35:13.400 we don't think of healthcare as a tech problem, and 0:35:13.480 --> 0:35:15.520 as people start to refocus and think of it in 0:35:15.520 --> 0:35:18.160 that way, we're going to have advances that will come. 0:35:18.080 --> 0:35:19.600 Much more rapidly. J. 0:35:19.800 --> 0:35:21.799 Pande, I hope you'll come on when we do we'll 0:35:21.800 --> 0:35:23.719 get all those advances. We thank you so much for 0:35:23.719 --> 0:35:26.200 setting us up for of course that. JP Morgan Conference 0:35:26.640 --> 0:35:29.000 general partner over Andresen Horowitz. Great to have you on 0:35:29.000 --> 0:35:39.760 the show. Going viral and extraordinary story of how Apple's 0:35:39.760 --> 0:35:43.040 promise for sturdy iPhones may have been kept after one 0:35:43.160 --> 0:35:48.200 was reportedly found intact after falling sixteen thousand free from 0:35:48.200 --> 0:35:51.239 that Alaska Airlines flight twelve eighty two this weekend. Now, 0:35:51.280 --> 0:35:53.680 according to a user post on x, the phone was 0:35:53.719 --> 0:35:57.560 in airplane mode and still had hours of battery life remaining. Now, 0:35:57.640 --> 0:36:00.480 Flight twelve eighty two was forced to turn by minutes 0:36:00.520 --> 0:36:04.080 after takeoff from Portland, Oregon, when a fuselage panel blew 0:36:04.120 --> 0:36:07.560 off the plane and sucked shirts and clearly phones out 0:36:07.560 --> 0:36:09.160 and luckily no people head. 0:36:10.560 --> 0:36:13.240 Let's stick with high altitude CARRA and get a different 0:36:13.280 --> 0:36:17.600 take on tech in aviation because United Launch Alliance's long 0:36:17.640 --> 0:36:21.960 awaited Vulcan rocket headed into space after launching from Florida's 0:36:21.960 --> 0:36:26.880 Cape canaverl early this morning. About fifty minutes after liftoff, 0:36:27.360 --> 0:36:32.480 the rocket deployed a robotic lunar lander, and if all 0:36:32.480 --> 0:36:35.040 goes well with the mission, it could be the first 0:36:35.080 --> 0:36:39.439 privately made lander to successfully land on the Moon. 0:36:39.760 --> 0:36:42.920 Karen mean, while coming back down to Earth, let's look 0:36:42.920 --> 0:36:47.160 at Twilio shares. Actually, well, they're doing well on the 0:36:47.160 --> 0:36:49.560 back of what is the founder Jeff Lawson stepping down 0:36:49.800 --> 0:36:53.279 a CEO giving up his board seat. Even now this 0:36:53.800 --> 0:36:55.880 we are going to dig into with Brody Ford joining 0:36:55.960 --> 0:36:59.239 us for more, because investors clearly wanted this, they have 0:36:59.320 --> 0:37:02.480 been pushing for. This is an activist who found their 0:37:02.480 --> 0:37:06.400 moment because Jeff Lawson as founder finally gave up voting 0:37:06.480 --> 0:37:07.680 rights right right. 0:37:07.760 --> 0:37:10.319 Yeah, when you start a company, oftentimes you have these 0:37:10.400 --> 0:37:13.880 really high powered shares. Jeff started this company in two 0:37:13.920 --> 0:37:16.040 thousand and eight and those shares expired last year. 0:37:16.120 --> 0:37:18.400 What does that mean? Means you can vote him out. 0:37:18.840 --> 0:37:21.560 And so activist investors who were upset with a long 0:37:21.640 --> 0:37:23.799 trend of slow in growth and wanted to mix up 0:37:24.160 --> 0:37:26.399 have been kind of privately speaking to him. A lot 0:37:26.400 --> 0:37:28.759 of investors I hear from say they wanted to switch up, 0:37:28.800 --> 0:37:31.160 and I think this was expected. I think this came 0:37:31.280 --> 0:37:33.560 sooner than many folks anticipated though. 0:37:34.600 --> 0:37:38.719 Okay, so Jeff Lawson out, Kazema, Ship Chandler in. What 0:37:38.800 --> 0:37:41.720 do we know about the new CEO that's coming in Brody? 0:37:42.320 --> 0:37:42.560 Yeah. 0:37:42.600 --> 0:37:44.200 So the thing to know about him is he's pretty 0:37:44.280 --> 0:37:45.560 much been lost in his right hand man. 0:37:45.640 --> 0:37:45.799 Right. 0:37:45.840 --> 0:37:46.759 He was CFO. 0:37:47.000 --> 0:37:50.480 He led their largest business units like ninety percent of revenues. 0:37:50.520 --> 0:37:52.680 So I mean he is seen as more of a 0:37:52.719 --> 0:37:56.319 financial operations type than the founder evangelist type. But at 0:37:56.320 --> 0:37:59.319 the same time, I've seen some folks say, hey, if 0:37:59.320 --> 0:38:01.080 we wanted to check James, why didn't we go for 0:38:01.120 --> 0:38:04.520 an external CEO. So that's the pro and knock on 0:38:04.600 --> 0:38:06.480 him is that he's an internal choice. 0:38:07.239 --> 0:38:09.640 We'll see how it continues to evolve with the investor base. 0:38:09.680 --> 0:38:11.440 For now, a little bit of push up higher on 0:38:11.480 --> 0:38:13.880 the shares Brady Ford breaking all down would be appreciated 0:38:13.920 --> 0:38:16.800 him for it. Meanwhile, and well, I'm glad you're in 0:38:16.840 --> 0:38:19.200 the seat today in SF, but you're about to take 0:38:19.200 --> 0:38:20.279 a flight yourself. 0:38:20.000 --> 0:38:23.720 Right, Yes, not on a Boeing seven three seven Max nine. 0:38:23.840 --> 0:38:25.600 But all being well, I'll be off to CS in 0:38:25.680 --> 0:38:28.480 Las Vegas. And we have a Tech daily out that 0:38:28.640 --> 0:38:31.120 the old kind of wacky gadget side of CS is 0:38:31.160 --> 0:38:34.520 still there. Big focus this year on AI gadgets, But 0:38:35.520 --> 0:38:37.840 as is always the case, look at the names on 0:38:37.880 --> 0:38:41.080 the screen. It's also a chance for Corporate America to say, hey, 0:38:41.520 --> 0:38:42.840 we know about AI as well. 0:38:43.400 --> 0:38:46.520 Yeah, everyone's a tech company, right, Loreal a tech company 0:38:46.560 --> 0:38:49.160 obviously a key keynote. I mean, we've for long had 0:38:49.160 --> 0:38:51.880 it that car companies have been tech companies, but is 0:38:51.920 --> 0:38:54.080 this the ultimate proof point that now tech is a 0:38:54.120 --> 0:38:55.360 horizontal not a vertical. 0:38:56.280 --> 0:38:58.720 Yeah, I mean it's the everyone is a tech company 0:38:58.800 --> 0:39:00.480 kind of line. One of the other key notes is 0:39:00.480 --> 0:39:03.719 Walmart and Doug McMillan wright big box retailer, but with 0:39:03.800 --> 0:39:07.320 an increasing e commerce presence. They are exhibiting at cees 0:39:07.520 --> 0:39:09.400 on the show and floor for the first time. So 0:39:09.440 --> 0:39:11.720 that's kind of what I'm interested in. If it's AI everything, 0:39:12.040 --> 0:39:13.719 what does that really look like if you are a 0:39:13.800 --> 0:39:17.160 lorrial whose CEO we will speak to, or indeed, some 0:39:17.200 --> 0:39:19.440 of the chip companies right some familiar names to us, 0:39:19.440 --> 0:39:23.920 like Christiana Marman of qualcom Rene hasse arm their stories 0:39:23.960 --> 0:39:26.319 were AI in twenty twenty three, so what's new. 0:39:26.960 --> 0:39:29.239 What's new is also what the competitors are up to 0:39:29.280 --> 0:39:31.040 in today is a day where in video leaders are 0:39:31.120 --> 0:39:34.800 charged in terms of the overall and NASDAT benchmark because 0:39:35.120 --> 0:39:38.720 they do an iteration on a chip for PC AI. 0:39:38.920 --> 0:39:41.360 But it's notable that really AI has got to be 0:39:41.360 --> 0:39:42.759 within your business model if you're going to lead in 0:39:42.800 --> 0:39:43.360 this environment. 0:39:43.800 --> 0:39:45.160 Yeah, and don't get me wrong, I like the weird 0:39:45.200 --> 0:39:47.960 stuff as well. Right, the robots that can mimic your handwriting, 0:39:48.600 --> 0:39:51.000 high tech toilets and bidets. Those are all things will 0:39:51.000 --> 0:39:52.279 be checking out this week. 0:39:52.400 --> 0:39:54.279 Just not on camera, right the bday in the Twitter, 0:39:54.360 --> 0:39:56.359 not on camera. Thanks that does it with this addition 0:39:56.400 --> 0:39:58.560 of Bluebotechnology, Thank you. 0:39:58.520 --> 0:40:00.000 To everyone that checks out the podcast. 0:40:00.200 --> 0:40:02.080 Wherever you get your podcasts, we post them on the 0:40:02.120 --> 0:40:05.960 Bloomberg platforms, but also onto Apple, Spotify, and iHeart. As 0:40:06.000 --> 0:40:08.160 Cary said, I'm off to catch a flight from SF 0:40:08.160 --> 0:40:14.600 in New York City. This is Bloomberg Technology.