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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome to stuff

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Speaker 1: I've never told your production of I Heart Radio. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and today I don't have any questions for you. Annie,

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Speaker 1: I feel like our topic matter it's a little too

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Speaker 1: serious for me to ask a flip of question in general,

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Speaker 1: even though you know we don't want to take life

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Speaker 1: too seriously, there's a lot going on in the world

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Speaker 1: that we can't ignore. Um and this is one of

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Speaker 1: those topics that we just can't ignore. Just go ahead

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Speaker 1: and give you this trigger warning. We are taking a

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Speaker 1: look at the connections between misogyny, toxic masculinity, domestic violence,

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Speaker 1: and mass shooting, specifically mass shootings and how they are

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Speaker 1: studying it and researching it. And we want to go

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Speaker 1: ahead and let you know we're not going to talk

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Speaker 1: about specific incidents necessarily, we're not going to detail about that,

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Speaker 1: but we're going into a lot of the background research

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Speaker 1: and then a heavy topic. So go ahead and get

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Speaker 1: add this to the top of Like, Ah, you may

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Speaker 1: not want to feel like listening to this one today.

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Speaker 1: You know you've had too much and you just need

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Speaker 1: some lighthearted content. This is not it. But yeah, this

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Speaker 1: is a very large topic with a lot of social

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Speaker 1: implications and for the most part we will be focusing

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Speaker 1: more in the US. So just to let you know

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Speaker 1: these numbers, and if we're not being clear, yeah, this

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Speaker 1: is mainly incidents in the United States, um, and the

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Speaker 1: incidents that have happened here. And we're gonna start off

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Speaker 1: with misogyny, which is something we speak on pretty frequently,

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Speaker 1: but we thought it would be good to go ahead

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Speaker 1: and do it, you know, schoolhouse rock level of view

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Speaker 1: of what it means exactly, even with the etymology of it.

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Speaker 1: But I'm not singing this time, Okay, I can't figure

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Speaker 1: out a song for this. So so according to Miriam Webster,

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Speaker 1: it means a hatred of or a version two or

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Speaker 1: a prejudice against women. Pretty simple. Um. And just to

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Speaker 1: go a bit further, this is similar to sexism. It

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Speaker 1: is very specific towards discriminatory attitude towards women and the

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Speaker 1: Greek roots scene which means to hate and gene which

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Speaker 1: means woman, and the other side to that would be massagery,

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Speaker 1: which is hatred of men. So there you go. You

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Speaker 1: get a great wedding. Okay, I'm gonna stop, Yes, my

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Speaker 1: big wedding, So there you go. I actually haven't seen that,

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Speaker 1: and I actually got called out for it recently on

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Speaker 1: the other podcasts I do savor because I mentioned it.

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Speaker 1: We did an episode where bunk Cake and apparently, but

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Speaker 1: but but apparently there's a joke about it. I know

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Speaker 1: it very clearly. I know exactly what you're talking about.

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Speaker 1: Should have come to you, I knew it well. Moving

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Speaker 1: on next, we wanted to have a definition of masculinity,

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Speaker 1: and the simple definition of that is quote the quality

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Speaker 1: or nature of the male sex, the quality state our

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Speaker 1: degree of being masculine or manly. Again, this is from

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Speaker 1: Miriam Webster. And though masculine in itself is not a

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Speaker 1: bad thing at all, and as we've been talking about

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Speaker 1: this as a descriptor in any gender, when it comes

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Speaker 1: to the more harmful ideals behind the importance of masculinity,

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Speaker 1: there are subset terms that are important to know, like

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Speaker 1: toxic masculinity, which is something we talk about often on

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Speaker 1: this show too, especially when we talk about the dangers

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Speaker 1: of the extreme pressures a man may feel to be

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Speaker 1: overtly aggressively showing their manliness. According to very well mind

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Speaker 1: dot com, there are many different definitions of toxic masculinity,

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Speaker 1: but a few researchers have agreed there are three core components. Toughness,

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Speaker 1: or the idea that a man should be physically strong

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Speaker 1: and without emotion or callous and perhaps even act aggressive,

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Speaker 1: our macho power, meaning that men should obtain power or

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Speaker 1: seek to have power over others in order to gain respect,

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Speaker 1: and that they should reject any and everything that can

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Speaker 1: be deemed feminine, like showing emotions or empathy. And then

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Speaker 1: there is hegemonic masculinity. And here we're talking about the

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Speaker 1: deeper idea that men should be the more dominant of

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Speaker 1: sexes in society, originally coined by our W. Connell's. The

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Speaker 1: theory is that it is quote a prevailing construct of

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Speaker 1: masculinity as a social class that dominates women. And according

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Speaker 1: to one research paper covering hegemonic masculinity and gun legislation,

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Speaker 1: the quote ideal hegemonic man is wealthy, physically strong, heterosexual,

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Speaker 1: middle age, educated, unemotional, independent, and white. Uh. And it

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Speaker 1: doesn't just affect women, but also obviously affects other men

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Speaker 1: also because it requires the domination of men by other

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Speaker 1: men in order to rise in the hierarchy. So it's

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Speaker 1: kind of like there can only be one and of course,

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Speaker 1: according to the same research, this goal and theory is

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Speaker 1: unattainable obviously, so add to this the level of trying

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Speaker 1: to get to this point but being frustrated because there's

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Speaker 1: no way to actually reach it. And then also in

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Speaker 1: cel and though this is not necessarily about masculinity, we

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Speaker 1: wanted to throw this definition out there. We did dedicate

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Speaker 1: a whole episode about it. We are going to briefly

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Speaker 1: mention specific incidents or at least a little bit of

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Speaker 1: the research that involves and cels wanting to get to

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Speaker 1: the definition as a brush up for everyone. So but

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Speaker 1: if you want to hear more about it and the culture,

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Speaker 1: you should go listen to our episode. And according to

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Speaker 1: Marion Webster, it is quote a person, usually a man,

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Speaker 1: who regards himself as being involuntarily celibate and typically expresses

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Speaker 1: extreme resentment and hostility towards those who are sexually active.

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Speaker 1: And then for more focused definition to specific incidents, like

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Speaker 1: we said we're gonna talking about later. This term is

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Speaker 1: quote emerged from a Reddit group in which tens of

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Speaker 1: thousands of users, most of them young men, commiserate about

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Speaker 1: their lack of sexual activity, many of them placing the

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Speaker 1: blame on women and express rage at women denying them sex,

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Speaker 1: and he frequently fantasized about violence. And then there is

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Speaker 1: mass shooting. So you know, this one may seem obvious,

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Speaker 1: but there are many varying definitions and different statistics that

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Speaker 1: are used to classify mass shooting. So here's a couple

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Speaker 1: that will help with our discussion for the episode today.

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Speaker 1: According to dictionary dot com, it is a quote single

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Speaker 1: incident involving the shooting with one or more firearms of

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Speaker 1: a number of people more than two and typically a

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Speaker 1: large number, especially when the victims are random. But not

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Speaker 1: all organizations and statistics rely on these numbers. Many argue

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Speaker 1: that it needs to be at least four victims and

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Speaker 1: not to so some of the findings we talked about

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Speaker 1: will be referring to that number as the definition, and

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Speaker 1: we we'll talk about it a bit more. But with

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Speaker 1: this definition, there are qualifications that are part of what

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Speaker 1: is considered a mass shooting. So, according to one report

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Speaker 1: by CNN, there's been at least two hundred and seventy

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Speaker 1: two mass shootings this year, and according to Gun Violence Archive,

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Speaker 1: that is at increase from twenty twenty and sixty five

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Speaker 1: jump from twenty nineteen and CNN is defining mass shooting

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Speaker 1: as four or more people who are shot, but that

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Speaker 1: also doesn't include the actual shooter or perpetrator, and the

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Speaker 1: numbers above again include all shootings that could include drive

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Speaker 1: by shootings and have shot at least four people. However,

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Speaker 1: the statistics for Every Town for Gun Safety reports that

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Speaker 1: because of the variation, once again, as we said earlier,

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Speaker 1: the definition of mass shootings, the counts differ from a

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Speaker 1: range of a dozen per year to one mass shooting

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Speaker 1: per day. The numbers are all over the place, but

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Speaker 1: it depends on different factors and their definitions. But for

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Speaker 1: every town, they also may look at, quote, the high

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Speaker 1: number of casualties and often extensive and horrific media coverage

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Speaker 1: associated with them, and some even make talk about the

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Speaker 1: fact that it was out of nowhere, as in as

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Speaker 1: if it was a workplace shooting, or what happened with Atlanta,

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Speaker 1: the Atlanta massacre where he just drove through and it

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Speaker 1: didn't happen at one place, but it was done by

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Speaker 1: one person and with multiple victims. So there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of arguments about these numbers. Yes, and because this

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Speaker 1: organization is looking to make changes within federal and state policies.

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Speaker 1: They also look into pecific trends that are often associated

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Speaker 1: with mass shootings, including perpetrated by someone who is legally

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Speaker 1: prohibited from possessing a firearm, perpetrated by someone who displayed

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Speaker 1: prior warning signs, intermingled with access to the violence, and

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Speaker 1: far deadlier when they involve assault weapons and high capacity magazines.

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Speaker 1: And with these trains and specified definition, the Everytown organization

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Speaker 1: or website shows that there have been two hund forty

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Speaker 1: mass shootings from two thousand nine to twenty which includes

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Speaker 1: the deaths of at least one thousand, three hundred and

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Speaker 1: sixty three people. So if we look at the perpetrators,

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Speaker 1: not surprisingly when we were talking about mass shooters, the

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Speaker 1: majority of the perpetrators are white men. According to Satista

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Speaker 1: dot com as of May one, at least fifty of

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Speaker 1: the perpetrators of mass shootings from twenty one or white only,

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Speaker 1: were committed by African Americans and only eight percent, respectively,

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Speaker 1: committed by Asian, Latino or Native American populations. And according

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Speaker 1: to the same site, men make up at least ninety

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Speaker 1: six percent of the shootings. Right, and yes, women are

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Speaker 1: often the victims more than have the women that die

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Speaker 1: in gunshot are typically domestic violence related. Gun violence of

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Speaker 1: the fifth leading depth for women ages eighteen to forty four.

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Speaker 1: American women are sixteen time is more likely to be

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Speaker 1: killed by gun violence than any other developed nation. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: this actually doesn't necessarily include a femicide. Uh, And we've

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Speaker 1: talked a little bit about it this before. That's a

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Speaker 1: whole other topic is included. But it's not just those numbers,

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Speaker 1: if that makes sense. Again, this is not outside of

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Speaker 1: the US, so that the numbers are were obviously much

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Speaker 1: higher and the types of killings are much higher, but

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Speaker 1: specifically we're looking at gun violence in the US for

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Speaker 1: this number, for these numbers, right, and now, why are

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Speaker 1: we talking about misogyny, toxic masculinity, and patriarchy in relation

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Speaker 1: to mass shootings and gun violence. Well, because the studies

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Speaker 1: show the links between them and we cannot ignore that.

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Speaker 1: And when looking more closely at some of the cases,

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Speaker 1: studies have found at crimes such as domestic violence we're

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Speaker 1: asking talking and sexual violence often are linked to or

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Speaker 1: have been a precedent to those who are most likely

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Speaker 1: to commit mass shooting. I know we've seen that conversation

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Speaker 1: playing out a lot recently, according to a mother Jones report,

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Speaker 1: they said that they have found many cases which show

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Speaker 1: a history of quote in cell like ideals as well

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Speaker 1: as their hallmarks of the culture which the perpetrators often

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Speaker 1: quote voiced their region ravenge fantasies on against women online,

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Speaker 1: and many of the victims were specifically targeted within these rants.

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Speaker 1: Looking at some specific cases, they say the shooters and

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Speaker 1: tell asked to Chicago, Orlando, Southern Springs and elsewhere brutalized

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Speaker 1: women long before their gun rampages, and that they often

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Speaker 1: give off quote multiple behavioral warning signs that are observable

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Speaker 1: to people around them. A majority do so starting months

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Speaker 1: and even years before their attacks, right, And this is

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Speaker 1: where we talk about the Reddit showing a lot of

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Speaker 1: this conversation happening, and they've have been able to pinpoint

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Speaker 1: a lot of the individuals within those organizations. And in

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Speaker 1: each of these cases there have been reports of domestic violence,

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Speaker 1: avert threats of violence harassing women and one specific case

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Speaker 1: was actually groping and inappropriate physical harassment that had been

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Speaker 1: a many complaints whether he had touched people inappropriately and

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Speaker 1: then they were on his target list. And then we

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Speaker 1: know that recently an actual all plot had been thwarted,

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Speaker 1: but on his list were women that he felt had

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Speaker 1: denied him and or had a list of women that

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Speaker 1: he wanted to rape, and he actually had all of

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Speaker 1: those weapons ready to go, but someone was able to

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Speaker 1: catch the warning signs and prevent some happening. But the

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Speaker 1: fact that it does happen quite often is very alarming,

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Speaker 1: even though unsurprising, And whether it is a loss of

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Speaker 1: control over a marriage or relationship, or feeling of rejection

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Speaker 1: or humiliation, there is a link between the need to

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Speaker 1: reassert some level of control and power that seemed to

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Speaker 1: play out in most of these deadly and violent situations.

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Speaker 1: And it's not a stress to see the effects of

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Speaker 1: toxic and hegemonic masculinity within those who have committed such crocities.

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Speaker 1: When we talk about gun and gun culture, it is

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Speaker 1: often steaked with masculine leanings which can quickly turn to

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Speaker 1: toxic and hegemonic masculine leanings right. In fact, on studies

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Speaker 1: showed how guns can actually be a symbol of hegemonic masculinity.

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Speaker 1: In the study, researcher Angela. Stroud interviewed men with concealed

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Speaker 1: weapon sence is to analyze these ideas and she found

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Speaker 1: similar themes in their reason She breaks it down like

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Speaker 1: this performance of masculinity, which includes the family defender, which

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Speaker 1: is the top reason for gun ownership, and the quote

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Speaker 1: aging male body, which is the idea that they never

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Speaker 1: want to be victims and if they feel they are

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Speaker 1: quote lacking fisical strength, a gun becomes the great equalizer.

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Speaker 1: And that phrase the great equalizer may be familiar as

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Speaker 1: it's been quoted within movies the media before, which may

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Speaker 1: be part of the link as it's often betrayed in

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Speaker 1: media as the hero fantasy to save the day or

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Speaker 1: get revenge fantasy. Had a really interesting conversation about this

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Speaker 1: with some friends from Europe once, where they I think

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Speaker 1: I've told the story before because it stands out to

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Speaker 1: me so sharply. But we saw inglorious pastors together and

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Speaker 1: it was differencing in Europe for a lot of reasons,

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Speaker 1: but one of them after was there like you Americans

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Speaker 1: and your gun violence in your movies, like we you

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Speaker 1: won't show drugs are sex, but yeah, just kill all

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Speaker 1: these people and still like you're the hero of the story. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I guess so bad you right, Okay, I gotta think

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Speaker 1: about some things for media I consume, and not surprisingly,

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Speaker 1: organizations use these themes as a way to control the

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Speaker 1: narrative for the need of guns and linking it to

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Speaker 1: measures of masculinity and another study, Scott Melzer, states that

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Speaker 1: the n A uses what he calls frontier masculinity, which

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Speaker 1: includes self reliance, rugged individualism, and a strong work ethic.

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Speaker 1: The n r A bolster support to their cause and

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Speaker 1: this type of marketing continues the narrative that this is

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Speaker 1: the way to hold their ground, which is another phrase

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Speaker 1: we hear often in this country, in a way to

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Speaker 1: protect what is theirs right. So essentially this is kind

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Speaker 1: of the idea of the old cowboys, Western cawboys defending

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Speaker 1: their home, which, by the way, that's not how that

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Speaker 1: went down. I'm sure all of you already know this,

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Speaker 1: but that kind of narrative is what pushes us forward

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Speaker 1: and thinking at guns main men. But there have been

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Speaker 1: jokes about you know, what does the gun represent for

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Speaker 1: the man? What is that anatomy? But it is something

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Speaker 1: that we need to look at like we may joke

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Speaker 1: about it, but the actuality is it has become such

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Speaker 1: a way of measuring one's uh strength. Is how many

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Speaker 1: guns or if you've got a gun. So that's really

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Speaker 1: scary to think on. And when we see the mere

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Speaker 1: campaign to continue to bolster sales for guns and armed weapons,

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Speaker 1: it's not hard to see the marketing techniques used within

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Speaker 1: these campaigns and how it influences those who measure their

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Speaker 1: mainliness to their weapons and ability to quote protect, which

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Speaker 1: fits in nicely when the narratives of the many of

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Speaker 1: those who would claim they are killing out of fear

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Speaker 1: or need for protection or maybe justice, which we've heard

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Speaker 1: that a lot. Of course, this could lead us to

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Speaker 1: talking about why there seems to be a gender line

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Speaker 1: when it comes to the debate of gun control in

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Speaker 1: this country, but that is a whole other episode which

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Speaker 1: we will revisit. So how does all of this lead

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Speaker 1: to mass shootings? Um? Well, what we see when a

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Speaker 1: perpetrator feels emasculated or wrong because of a loss of

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Speaker 1: power is what can be known as aggrieved entitlement, which

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Speaker 1: means these perpetrators feel wronged by the world and they

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Speaker 1: transformed that ager into revenge and they believe that quote

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Speaker 1: they can regain this through mass violence against the enemy

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Speaker 1: are those whom they feel have wronged them. According to

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Speaker 1: a study, completed by Rachel Kalish and Michael Kimmel. And

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Speaker 1: this specific study came from suicide by mass shooting, and

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Speaker 1: so they went through this whole narrative. But this is

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Speaker 1: what they were trying to bring out, like, this is

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Speaker 1: maybe a reason and we need to look about this

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Speaker 1: entitlement as well as masculinity, right, and yeah, again, this

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Speaker 1: is the result of feeling a loss of superiority and

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Speaker 1: trying to regain power of control. And in a study

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Speaker 1: titled Masculine Threat, Massage, Me, and the Celebration of Violence

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Speaker 1: and White Men by Maria Scaptura, she talks about a

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Speaker 1: level of white entitlement that factors into perpetrators of mass

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Speaker 1: shootings and states since white entitlement often protects white men

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Speaker 1: from systemic disenfranchisement, these individuals are often unable to emotionally

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Speaker 1: process everyday setbacks like bullying, being passed over for a job, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: When their privileges no longer guarantees them status or success,

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Speaker 1: they are unable to cope and more likely to externalize

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Speaker 1: blame for their outcomes. Right. So there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: conversation of why they may do this, and of course

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Speaker 1: there are studies upon studies upon studies about what this

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Speaker 1: looks like in relation to gun control in relation to

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Speaker 1: domestic violence that are all very separate that could come together,

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Speaker 1: and it's slowly coming together. As we talked about it again,

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Speaker 1: that one report from Kellition KIMIL came from two thousand

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Speaker 1: ten and this current one from SCAPTA was in twenty nineteen,

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Speaker 1: and they continues to be studies. And we know that

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg did a giant study in twenty when it comes

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Speaker 1: to matt shootings and domestic violence. And we have another

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Speaker 1: new one that came from the Etymology from every Town

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Speaker 1: that came out in as well. So there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of conversation about how to link these and what is important.

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Speaker 1: And again we talked about it earlier about gun control

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Speaker 1: and gun violence and whether the CDC had would be

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Speaker 1: able to intervene, and they have so slowly started researching

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Speaker 1: what is happening, even with it being contested by other lobbyists.

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Speaker 1: But okay, but we also wanted to talk about this

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Speaker 1: in linking to domestic violence. Uh. And we already mentioned

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Speaker 1: some of the stats linking to mess shootings in domestic violence,

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Speaker 1: but we wanted to pull up some specific statistics before

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Speaker 1: we dig a bit deeper in the correlation. But first,

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Speaker 1: what is domestic violence? According to the National Coalition Against

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Speaker 1: Domestic Violence or in z A d V, it is

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Speaker 1: quote the willful intimidation, physical assault, battery, sexual assault, and

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Speaker 1: or other abusive behavior as part of a systematic pattern

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Speaker 1: of power and control perpetrated by one intimate partner against another.

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Speaker 1: It includes physical violence, sexual violence, threats, economic and emotional

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Speaker 1: psychological abuse, yes, and um. According to the n c

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Speaker 1: A d V, more than ten million adults experienced domestic

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Speaker 1: violence annually. One in four women and one in ten

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Speaker 1: men experienced some type of IPv or intimate partner violence

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Speaker 1: in their lifetime. From through twenty eighteen, the number of

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Speaker 1: intimate partner violence victimizations in the US increased. In partner

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Speaker 1: violence accounted for twenty of all violent crime. Intimate partner

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Speaker 1: violence is the most common against women between the ages

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Speaker 1: of eighteen to twenty four. Nine of intimate partner violence

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Speaker 1: involves a weapon, and about four point five million women

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Speaker 1: have reported that they have been threatened with a gun

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Speaker 1: by their intimate partners. Right and going specifically into intimate

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Speaker 1: partner deaths within the statistics, the n c A d

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Speaker 1: v stays. One in two female murder victims and one

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Speaker 1: in ten male murder victims are killed by intimate partners

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Speaker 1: and abusers. Access to firearm increases the risk of an

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Speaker 1: intimate partner femicide by four of all murder suicides are

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Speaker 1: perpetrated by intimate partners. Of murder suicide victims are female.

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Speaker 1: Abusers who have access to firearms increase the risk of

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Speaker 1: intimate partner femicide at least fivefold, and when firearms have

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Speaker 1: been used in the most severe abuse incidents, the risk

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Speaker 1: increases to forty one fold, so pretty significantly. And while

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Speaker 1: the overall rate of intimate partner has decreased, intimate partner

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Speaker 1: femicide has increased in recent years, driven by an increase

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Speaker 1: in intimate partner femicide committed with a firearm. So there's

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Speaker 1: been a lot of conversation about what state and what

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Speaker 1: legislation is actually doing something about trying to take away

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Speaker 1: firearms and or at least getting some kind of control

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Speaker 1: because many of the states don't have strict policies for

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Speaker 1: those who have been involved in domestic violence cases because

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Speaker 1: of how often it gets dismissed, how often it gets

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Speaker 1: uh taken back so if they decided to dismiss charges

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Speaker 1: or take back the charges, or even just timing, it

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Speaker 1: takes time to even get these cases. It takes years.

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Speaker 1: And then of course we've also seen those cases where

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Speaker 1: I believe it was in Florida where the woman was

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Speaker 1: in fear for our life and because she couldn't get

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Speaker 1: a t p O or a rustrating order rather protective order,

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Speaker 1: she went and took his guns and turned them into

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Speaker 1: the police and she got arrested for burglary. Right, So

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Speaker 1: we have incidents like that that makes it concerning. Yeah, yes,

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Speaker 1: And then we did want to talk about corollary victims

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Speaker 1: who are family members or those close to the intimate

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Speaker 1: partners somehow involved in the case, such as police officers

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Speaker 1: or emergency personnel. A study of intimate partner homicides found

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Speaker 1: of victims were family members or friends of the abuse partner, neighbors,

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Speaker 1: persons who intervened, law enforcement responders, or by standards, and

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Speaker 1: a quarter of those victims are seventeen years or younger.

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Speaker 1: Within those numbers, half of the coillary victims were miners

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Speaker 1: and family members. In seventy percent of them were killed

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Speaker 1: with firearms, and more than that we're killed within their residence.

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Speaker 1: That's something that we need to understand as a part

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Speaker 1: of the mass shootings because oftentimes that's who gets caught

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Speaker 1: up and the multiple victims are the with the main target.

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Speaker 1: So oftentimes we read that children, the children of the

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Speaker 1: target are part of the victims as well, and that's

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Speaker 1: in within the mass shooting victims statistics as well. So

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Speaker 1: what is this correlation of domestic violence and mass shooters?

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Speaker 1: And I think a majority of you probably already know,

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Speaker 1: and it is really big right now because that one

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Speaker 1: big study that has recently just come out. But according

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Speaker 1: to those studies, is now verified that at least six

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Speaker 1: of the mass shootings were committed by someone who's been

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Speaker 1: in the justice system for some type of domestic violence

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Speaker 1: offense between the years of seventeen. And with that, it

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Speaker 1: is now verified that two out of three mass shootings

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Speaker 1: are linked to a domestic violence incident. And within those

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Speaker 1: statistics there is a higher rate of fatalities than with

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Speaker 1: mass shootings unrelated to DV. According to that research, one

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Speaker 1: in six people survive if there's a domestic violence isn't

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Speaker 1: it or some kind of element involved, compared to one

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Speaker 1: in three for non DV related shootings. In several of

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Speaker 1: the high profile mass shooting cases, there have been details

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Speaker 1: of some type of domestic or intimate partner violence, cases

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Speaker 1: like the Pulse nightclub shooting, the Texas shirt shooting in

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Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, the Plano, Texas shooting that killed eight people

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Speaker 1: including the shooters estranged wife, the Colorado Spring shooting, and

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Speaker 1: so many others that continue to haunt these communities. There

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Speaker 1: were reports of past police or court involvement, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: not completely seen as part of the warnings until until

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Speaker 1: pretty recently. I mean, some of us have definitely been

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Speaker 1: sounding the l arm, like why don't we seem to

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Speaker 1: care about this? And as new research is now able

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Speaker 1: to verify the clear linkage between some of these presidents,

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Speaker 1: it is unclear how or if it will affect public

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Speaker 1: policy nationwide. And yeah, we know this is only the

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Speaker 1: tip of what needs to be discussed in the overall

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Speaker 1: implications of what has happened with our society and whether

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Speaker 1: or not we are able to bring any change to

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Speaker 1: a broken system. It certainly feels like we've been screaming

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Speaker 1: about this for years and no one's been listening, or

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Speaker 1: the people in power have been Like thoughts and prayers,

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Speaker 1: thoughts and prayers move on and as we talk about

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Speaker 1: the links that happened within. Of course, we talked about

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Speaker 1: this with our Q and On episode and the Insurrection

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Speaker 1: episode that we did with Bridget how we are seeing

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Speaker 1: those who feel like powers being taken from them using

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Speaker 1: violence to come at them. And within that linkage, how

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Speaker 1: many of them has some type of incident or with

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Speaker 1: domestic violence or even incidents against abortion clinics and reproductive

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Speaker 1: rights clinics. Like it's very obvious that there's a singular

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Speaker 1: link between all of these studies and who is part

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Speaker 1: of problem? I guess for the lack of better terms,

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Speaker 1: and of course again this we're not even talking about

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Speaker 1: gun control laws. We're not even talking about the policies

434
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:10,639
Speaker 1: based on that. We're not talking about whether or not

435
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,679
Speaker 1: the Second Amendment has been affected here or should be

436
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:17,320
Speaker 1: affected here in these conversations. But we're talking about is

437
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:19,960
Speaker 1: that there is a commonality that we have to address

438
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:22,640
Speaker 1: and whether or not anybody's gonna pay attention, because yeah,

439
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 1: it's it's not new, especially in the last ten years.

440
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 1: I think we've talked more and more about it overall,

441
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,120
Speaker 1: and it's not hard to see, especially if you've been

442
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,879
Speaker 1: with someone, if you had a loved one involved in

443
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:37,439
Speaker 1: domestic violence or even emotional abuse, or if you've suffered

444
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:40,919
Speaker 1: that yourself or gone through that yourself, or work within

445
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 1: those communities and types of atmospheres. It is very obvious

446
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:49,200
Speaker 1: once you see the glaring signs. Oftentimes for those who

447
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,119
Speaker 1: are survivors or those who have been in the field. No,

448
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,200
Speaker 1: I know the signs of what is happening, and it's

449
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 1: really frustrating when you can't figure out a solution um

450
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 1: and I know they're content. He needs to be a

451
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:03,240
Speaker 1: fight when it comes to gun policies and protection for

452
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 1: the victims, which is what we're asking for. And we've

453
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:08,879
Speaker 1: talked about the back and forth of the Violence Against

454
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 1: Women Act in the past administrations and the fact that

455
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 1: it had to be written back in because it was

456
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 1: so quietly taken out. And when we talk about funding

457
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 1: to help survivors, they're so little, uh that is actually

458
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:23,680
Speaker 1: being afforded to them and given to them as a resource.

459
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,200
Speaker 1: And the fact that we have to look at nonprofits

460
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,440
Speaker 1: that have to do fundraising because that you don't get

461
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:31,119
Speaker 1: grants or enough of a grant to help, and that

462
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 1: they are limited by being only help able to help,

463
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 1: you know, twenty women when we just saw the stats

464
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,880
Speaker 1: of how many women are actual victims and our survivors,

465
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:44,719
Speaker 1: and it's really infuriating. And we're not even again looking

466
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 1: at the end depth of the financial abuse that we've

467
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 1: talked about beforehand and what that looks like and why

468
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 1: that is so dangerous as well, and of all control,

469
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,919
Speaker 1: and yeah, we need to talk about whether we value masculinity,

470
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 1: which is can be typically more toxic under the guise

471
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 1: of hegemonics, over the protections of individual citizens. And that's

472
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:08,479
Speaker 1: the question of what are we doing about the guns.

473
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 1: Are we really really looking at protecting or are we

474
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 1: really really looking at profits and or a standard that

475
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,880
Speaker 1: it's harmful for everyone because the overall idea that one

476
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 1: should be dominating over another that in itself is a threat. Yeah. Yeah,

477
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:32,400
Speaker 1: it's frustrating conversation on so many levels, obviously. But I

478
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 1: have gotten in fights with people before where they being

479
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 1: someone very adamant about like don't come and take my guns,

480
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:44,359
Speaker 1: saying it's all about like protection, safety and control, and

481
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:46,119
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, if I walk into a place and

482
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:50,920
Speaker 1: I see somebody with a gun, I don't feel safer

483
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:54,720
Speaker 1: I immediately feel less safe, like and that whole idea

484
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:56,399
Speaker 1: of like the best way to stop someone with the

485
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 1: gun is another person with a gun. And I'm like,

486
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 1: since when does it have to escalate to this? Like

487
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,680
Speaker 1: we can't find another place along the line to protect

488
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 1: the more people, right, you know? That's the That's the

489
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:12,639
Speaker 1: other part to that is, at what point do we

490
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:17,439
Speaker 1: say this is a hobby and this is status versus protection. Again,

491
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 1: when the conversation, people want to talk about how, you know,

492
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 1: if you outlaw guns, you know, people don't get them

493
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 1: illegally anyway, and all of these things, uh, and or

494
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,439
Speaker 1: talking about how they need the bigger guns because what

495
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 1: if something goes wrong, you know, the fake apocalypse that's

496
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:36,919
Speaker 1: supposed to happen soon, all of these things, and I

497
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,359
Speaker 1: get a level like I hate guns. This is my

498
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 1: own personal opinion. I hate them. They scared the hell

499
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 1: out of me. I left one of my jobs because

500
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 1: I was going to be enforced to have a gun.

501
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 1: I was like, no, no, no, no, I'm good. I'm out.

502
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,959
Speaker 1: That was not my job. But I'm not even arguing

503
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:53,880
Speaker 1: about whether or not you can have a gun. I'm

504
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:57,680
Speaker 1: not arguing with you about whether or not Second Amendment rights.

505
00:27:57,840 --> 00:27:59,879
Speaker 1: It's just more of that. We have to think about

506
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 1: the necessary toll is taken and why we are not

507
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 1: having some type of legislation or conversation about why this

508
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 1: is a controlled more than what it is when everything

509
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 1: else is seemingly way controlled. Women's bodies are so more

510
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 1: controlled than guns, and that has taken lies versus all

511
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 1: of everything else, you know what I mean, It's just

512
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 1: kind of such a weird conversation. Again, this is this

513
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,119
Speaker 1: is not what we're talking about necessarily in this episode,

514
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 1: the gun control stuff. We are talking about why we

515
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,439
Speaker 1: need to see it. And again, yeah, I think more women.

516
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:36,680
Speaker 1: You'll find more women saying they're uncomfortable with guns and

517
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 1: they are the men when it comes to statistics and

518
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 1: who owns it and who is part of the n

519
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 1: r A. There's a very clear line of genders of

520
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:49,120
Speaker 1: like who is here and who isn't. And again there's

521
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 1: got to be somewhat of a level of okay, but

522
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 1: why people fighting so hard again capitalism and it's you know,

523
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 1: truest form and what this is and who is making

524
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 1: all the money and why it's so important to them.

525
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 1: But the fact is, it comes down to do you

526
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 1: trust people too? I think that's part of that conversation

527
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 1: is you go into a relationship not realizing who you're

528
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 1: with and finding yourself caught and then you're caught up

529
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 1: into this whole world that you don't understand, and then

530
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 1: you add a gun to it and it becomes a

531
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 1: whole new mix obviously. And yeah, we can go back

532
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 1: to the fact that many of the Mats shootings had

533
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 1: legal guns end the story, and again, who is perpetuated

534
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 1: by and who the demographics are, who are the actual

535
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 1: shooters and why that's important to look at in the

536
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 1: system that doesn't police them very well, but the police

537
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 1: and other individuals really well, to the point that they

538
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 1: are murdered for taking two steps outside of the line. Yeah. Yeah,

539
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 1: And I mean it's a lot to untangle, as as

540
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 1: you said at the top, Samantha, because there are so

541
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 1: many issues here. But I think that we can't not

542
00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:00,479
Speaker 1: talk about if there's multiple instances where that I can

543
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 1: think of off the top of my head, where it's

544
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 1: a dude being like this one woman rejected me once

545
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,719
Speaker 1: and now I have to kill everyone and myself usually,

546
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 1: and that is a problem that we should be asking

547
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 1: why that is exactly and then also why we have

548
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 1: to look at the fact that, you know, women from

549
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 1: eighteen to forty four probably don't die of a gunshot,

550
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 1: like it's just kind of one of those yeah that um,

551
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 1: and again, yeah, the correlation seems to be getting more

552
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 1: clear as more research as being done over who values

553
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 1: what in our current state of being, and not much

554
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 1: has changed. I know that there's a lot of outcry.

555
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 1: There's a shooting that I specifically remember. I think Columbine

556
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 1: would be mine point of like, they're going to do

557
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 1: something now, they're going to do something with gun control,

558
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 1: and surely, surely the goodness something's going to happen, and

559
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 1: nothing happened. The Sandy Hook shooting was another one. I

560
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, young children have been affected.

561
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 1: Surely something is going to happen. And of course the

562
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 1: whole ablest narrative of mental health comes in and instead

563
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 1: of guns and instead of violence against women, because the

564
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: first thing he did was he shot his mother, and

565
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 1: I think that says a lot. He was after her

566
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 1: and then it went bigger. But there needs that conversation

567
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 1: of like, ah, yeah, okay, let's not be able us

568
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 1: to just blame one thing, because that's something that you know,

569
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 1: you want to say, is out of your control and

570
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 1: therefore you couldn't like you couldn't have that couldn't happen normally, right,

571
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 1: But the fact of the matter is he had access

572
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 1: and that's part of the problem, and that's part of

573
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 1: that conversation that we don't have. And again, like those

574
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 1: big points, I was like, yeah, something's gonna happen, and

575
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 1: it didn't. And it seems to continue to be that way.

576
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 1: And that's the most frustrating part is, yes, these new

577
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 1: statistics are alarming, but for people like us who have

578
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 1: been in this industry, is not shocking. We just now

579
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 1: have actually verifiable numbers. Yeah. Yeah, it's like you said,

580
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 1: or they or not will do anything about it. And

581
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 1: that's a whole other something we've talked about before, which

582
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 1: too much for this episode of that whole like blamed

583
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 1: the mother thing, right, it really is. It comes back

584
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 1: a lot in these where it's like, well, she must

585
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 1: have been and I I don't know, but it's like

586
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 1: the fact that that is we instead of him. We

587
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 1: always are like put that mother though, right, right, But

588
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:21,760
Speaker 1: that's kind of that conversation of when women and I've

589
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 1: seen this many times, who are victims and then their

590
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:28,480
Speaker 1: children are victims, and both the mother and the father

591
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: get arrested, but oftentimes the mother is the one that

592
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 1: gets since enced the longest for not protecting her child.

593
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 1: The majority of the time is because she was a

594
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 1: victim herself and she's fearful that they're going to die.

595
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 1: She does anything like they are all going to die,

596
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 1: and these are kind of that relevance, So I'm like, yeah,

597
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 1: they do, this is what happens. They end up dying,

598
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 1: and so instead because they didn't come out of it,

599
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 1: because they have no other other circumstances to come out

600
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 1: of it, they're punished more so than the actual abuser

601
00:32:57,680 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 1: because they didn't they as the mother, should have been

602
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 1: texting the child. Yep, so much. There's so much here,

603
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 1: so much obviously we untangled, like, oh, there's five out

604
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 1: the topics here from when we all want to be

605
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 1: Debbie Downers. Yeah. Well, if you're ready to have more

606
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 1: Debbie Downer conversations, you know where to email us. You

607
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:27,080
Speaker 1: can send those messages are away Steffia mom Stuff at

608
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 1: I hurt media dot com. You can find us on

609
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 1: Twitter at mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram and stuff

610
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 1: I Never told you. Thanks. It's always to our super

611
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 1: producer Christina, Thank you, and thanks to you for listening

612
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 1: stuff I Never told you. Protection I Heart Radio from

613
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 1: more podcast from my Heart Radio, Is I Hear Radio, app,

614
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows