WEBVTT - Ep58 - Gary Oldman / "Darkest Hour" 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.880 You're listening to playback a Variety podcast. I'm your host, 0:00:03.960 --> 0:00:27.960 Variety Awards editor Chris Tappy. Hello, Hello, have you right here? 0:00:28.720 --> 0:00:34.159 Oh cool, in the state of transitioning. It's going to 0:00:34.240 --> 0:00:38.720 be wonderful. I can tell you it's gonna be beautiful. Here, 0:00:38.760 --> 0:00:45.640 come sit down. Yeah, if you guys just sit over there. Um, 0:00:46.200 --> 0:00:48.360 he's gonna crab it a few candids, real quast, you 0:00:48.400 --> 0:00:56.120 have breakfast, thank you. Not not the purpose, but that's 0:00:56.160 --> 0:01:01.440 just your Yeah. I don't even know they got it. Yeah, 0:01:02.440 --> 0:01:07.920 mh Gary, he's just gonna grab a couple of quick 0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:14.320 candidates as if we're chatting. I just got a message 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:19.240 from an win. Oh. Ess, I'm gonna bring this back 0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:25.760 word clean, give it to the good night. Last night 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:35.840 it was um a good result. Ye have fun? Uh 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:44.360 I did? Yeah? Yeah, Um, I was a little um shocked. Yeah, 0:01:44.400 --> 0:01:48.640 look overwhelmed by. But yeah, we had a nice We 0:01:48.680 --> 0:01:50.600 had a nice time. We had a very nice table. 0:01:51.880 --> 0:01:59.360 We had Sally Hawkins and Richard Jenkins, Jeffrey Rush So 0:01:59.400 --> 0:02:02.920 they kind of or mingle everybody at that put a soul. 0:02:03.240 --> 0:02:04.920 I don't know how they do it. I don't know 0:02:04.960 --> 0:02:12.000 how they work it out. The who's with who you know? 0:02:13.880 --> 0:02:18.840 But um, but enjoyed your tablemates. It's a nice table. 0:02:19.000 --> 0:02:25.520 Yeah yeah, it's uh yeah, let's get some more light. 0:02:25.840 --> 0:02:33.080 This is actually darker than usual. There. That's fine, thank you. 0:02:35.480 --> 0:02:40.560 All right, we're rolling by the way. Okay. Uh we've 0:02:40.600 --> 0:02:44.519 got Gary Oldman here today, star of Darkest Hour, SAG 0:02:44.600 --> 0:02:49.520 Award winning Star of Darkest Down. We were just talking about, uh, 0:02:49.600 --> 0:02:51.760 as I said in congratulations on that, you were quite 0:02:51.760 --> 0:02:55.120 emotional on the stage. You know what, what was striking 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:57.200 you in the moment? What was well, I have no 0:02:57.360 --> 0:03:01.680 recollection now that the evening really, um it is a 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:07.920 very wide pool of people that vote. I'm told I 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:14.320 think it's like a hundred and twenty thousand or more. Um, 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:19.560 so you're not it's not in the bag, you know 0:03:20.000 --> 0:03:25.200 you It really could have been anyone's I think. And 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:34.119 so I was shocked, genuinely surprised two win and then 0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:37.560 it hit it just sort of it was very emotional 0:03:37.600 --> 0:03:42.080 and it just kind of hit me. And I think, ah, 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:48.400 I remember Winona Rider leaping out of her seat in 0:03:50.480 --> 0:03:56.280 kissing me, and and I think the hug from Denzel 0:03:57.240 --> 0:04:03.040 on my way to the stage was was it was 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:06.240 it was lovely. It was very touching. Tripped down memory 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:10.000 lane on the way to the stage. Here Dracula there. Yeah, 0:04:10.200 --> 0:04:14.840 it's yeah, yeah, Dracula all those many many years ago. 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:17.640 So it was great. It was a great It was 0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:22.080 a great night. And to be recognized by ones fellow 0:04:22.120 --> 0:04:26.039 actors is a is an honor. Indeed, before I dig 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:27.960 in on the movie, the performance and a couple of 0:04:27.960 --> 0:04:31.559 other things, the this James Brown video I must talk about, 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:34.440 which I understand. We owe a debt to you for 0:04:34.960 --> 0:04:38.800 to your wife. It's been making the circulation lately. Uh, 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:41.200 you know talk about that? Was that just a fun 0:04:41.880 --> 0:04:47.640 bit of backstage you know, well, we you know, you've 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:52.920 you've got You've arrived in the morning and you're looking 0:04:53.520 --> 0:04:59.000 really a four hours before you get to the set um, 0:04:59.080 --> 0:05:02.760 and then the crew, the cast, and the director arrive 0:05:03.520 --> 0:05:08.680 and then you rehearse, and then you work ten or 0:05:08.680 --> 0:05:12.320 twelve hour day and then you have the makeup removed 0:05:12.360 --> 0:05:15.560 for an hour in the evening. So you're looking at 0:05:15.560 --> 0:05:20.880 a very long day, um, and you you have to 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:25.800 get into some kind of zen place. You have to 0:05:25.839 --> 0:05:28.360 find a headspace to sort of get you to get 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:32.239 you through it. Um. And I was just very lucky 0:05:32.320 --> 0:05:36.280 that I had David Malanowski and Lucy Sibik, who were 0:05:36.440 --> 0:05:39.240 who two people who would sort of put put me 0:05:39.320 --> 0:05:46.279 together in the morning. Um. They they were just a 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:49.400 lot of a lot of fun to be around. And 0:05:49.480 --> 0:05:52.240 we and you kind of have to find the humor 0:05:52.480 --> 0:05:56.680 to just sort of get you. You know, you you 0:05:56.800 --> 0:06:01.279 come in at two thirty a m. Or three am 0:06:01.400 --> 0:06:06.480 on on a cold morning after you know, on day 0:06:07.080 --> 0:06:09.360 and then and the morning starts with your head being 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:13.880 shaved and cold glue applied to your face. You know, 0:06:15.279 --> 0:06:19.440 you've got to you know, you have to sort of 0:06:19.520 --> 0:06:23.520 get through it somehow. So they were just they're just 0:06:23.680 --> 0:06:29.279 terrific people, not only great artists, but really really lovely 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:32.479 people and great sense of humors. So we used to 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:38.920 we used to yeah, um, it's a stress reliever in 0:06:38.960 --> 0:06:42.400 the in the trailer, and and we used to play 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:45.080 we used to play music. There was a sort of 0:06:46.480 --> 0:06:50.760 it was a sort of ritual where there would be 0:06:50.839 --> 0:06:57.120 silence for a while and then m maybe at two 0:06:57.200 --> 0:07:02.159 hours in Dave would on the radio or then we'd 0:07:02.160 --> 0:07:07.320 start going through our iPhones and iTunes and and and playing. 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:12.080 And he's a soul, he's a big funk soul guy Dave, 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:15.200 so we we we used to play a lot of that. 0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:20.280 And then you know, I used to do silly James Brown, 0:07:21.120 --> 0:07:26.200 Winnie Winnie doing Brown and where you learned the moves 0:07:26.200 --> 0:07:32.560 from Captured by My by Chaselle my wife. Uh, you 0:07:32.600 --> 0:07:36.960 know clubs when I was a kid. Yeah, you still 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:39.560 got it, man. I used to like, um, yeah, I 0:07:39.640 --> 0:07:43.960 was a big I used to like soul awesome. Well, 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:46.200 speaking of you know, the makeup and everything every day, 0:07:46.200 --> 0:07:49.800 You've been no stranger certainly to immersing yourself physically into 0:07:49.800 --> 0:07:53.960 a character, long line of roles like Dracula as we mentioned, 0:07:53.960 --> 0:07:57.360 and True Romance, Fifth Element, just lots of prosthetics and 0:07:57.680 --> 0:08:00.360 really getting into the physical space of the character. I 0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:02.160 don't imagine you would do that so much if you 0:08:02.200 --> 0:08:05.480 didn't love it right or that that it kind of 0:08:05.520 --> 0:08:11.200 feeds what you do. Well. I had a big, a big, 0:08:11.360 --> 0:08:16.640 big gap from it. I The last time I was 0:08:18.000 --> 0:08:20.560 in that kind of makeup I think was for Hannibal, 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:26.480 the really Scott film, and that was six hours. But 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:31.360 then I would only I would only work a four 0:08:31.800 --> 0:08:36.600 hour day in it um and that was the whole 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:40.360 thing with contact lenses and they had They rigged up 0:08:40.400 --> 0:08:43.600 a device that held my eyes open, so I had 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:48.800 no eyelids. I didn't blink and and you could only 0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:53.959 you could only it was every fifteen minutes they had 0:08:53.960 --> 0:08:57.599 to give me eye drops and release the eyelids to 0:08:58.080 --> 0:09:00.800 rest the eye. So it was a sort of very 0:09:01.040 --> 0:09:07.560 um a crazy process and I and I swore after 0:09:07.640 --> 0:09:11.480 that that I would never do it again. UM. And 0:09:11.559 --> 0:09:15.920 that was my you know, that was my life. They're 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:20.760 done with with with that kind of makeup. UM. When 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:25.680 this came up, with Darkest Hour came on the scene, 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:30.959 it was it was a necessity. It was the only 0:09:32.360 --> 0:09:38.679 way to go. So I knew going in UM and 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:46.520 and and Hannibal was seven eight days, you know. UM, 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:52.000 so you're looking at Winston UM. You know, you're looking 0:09:52.040 --> 0:09:58.040 at fifty in that kind of makeup. UM. And then 0:09:58.040 --> 0:10:02.120 we had test makeups. So I think it's sixty one 0:10:02.200 --> 0:10:05.040 times that I had that I had the makeup on 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:11.640 UM And yeah, it's a lot, it's a lot. It's 0:10:11.679 --> 0:10:18.080 a lot to go through. UM. But of course you're 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:25.400 then working with Kazuhiro Suji, who designed designed the makeup. 0:10:25.440 --> 0:10:28.440 It was it was Lucy and Dave that that painted 0:10:28.480 --> 0:10:30.880 it and applied it on a daily basis, but it 0:10:30.960 --> 0:10:32.880 was but it was Kazoo who came up with the 0:10:33.800 --> 0:10:35.800 with with the look, and when you're working with someone 0:10:35.880 --> 0:10:38.280 like that and that kind of material, I mean, it 0:10:38.360 --> 0:10:44.200 really is like a synthetic skin. It's not cumbersome restrictive 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:46.960 in any way. What does it do for you psychologically? 0:10:47.080 --> 0:10:51.400 Like working in the space, putting you you know, being 0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:54.360 disappeared into a role like that essentially, like is it 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:57.040 helpful for you? Does it feel like something you have 0:10:57.120 --> 0:11:00.640 to act act past? Does it feel ever feel like 0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:06.000 you know, just for you personally? Well, the whole experience 0:11:07.520 --> 0:11:16.880 was very um immersive, um. Going back to the the 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:21.920 sort of work. The homework on the role was a 0:11:22.040 --> 0:11:27.560 year um and that was a year of all really 0:11:27.600 --> 0:11:31.880 all things Churchill. I mean, it was just it was 0:11:31.920 --> 0:11:36.840 constantly in my he was constantly in my head. Then 0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:41.200 you had um four weeks rehearsal, which is sort of 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:44.319 unheard up for a film where you got to really 0:11:44.360 --> 0:11:51.120 physicalize and vocalize the character and the set that the 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:57.320 Sarah Greenwood's designs were just that they were so immersive 0:11:59.120 --> 0:12:03.720 and so detail out, and then you're looking in the 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:08.360 mirror and you're at least seeing an essence of a 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:13.000 spirit of of of Winston. So you are stepping in. 0:12:13.840 --> 0:12:17.720 It was a little bit like just really touching history 0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:22.840 and stepping back, you know, when you stepped back in time. 0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:30.000 You know, it's sort of so the whole um. A 0:12:30.040 --> 0:12:31.880 great deal of that is doing the work for you. 0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:35.680 You know, you use your imagination, of course, but but 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:41.200 you would believe that you were in the war rooms. 0:12:41.280 --> 0:12:46.000 I mean we we visited several times and had a 0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:54.040 private tour of the place, and the curator feel read 0:12:54.880 --> 0:12:58.280 he was on set as a sort of technical advisor, 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:04.040 and he couldn't he couldn't believe the war room set. 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:07.680 He said it was, you know, and it was also 0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:13.000 it was also in case it had of course there 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:18.160 were lights that Bruno used above us, but at times, 0:13:18.200 --> 0:13:22.280 you know, they would put ceilings in um. So you 0:13:22.280 --> 0:13:24.160 you know, it was amazing. You really felt that you 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:26.400 were down there when you were doing your research. Well, 0:13:26.440 --> 0:13:29.160 what did you discover about Churchill that you didn't know 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:32.680 that maybe you applied in your performance. He's such a 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:35.360 well covered man that you know, it's not like I 0:13:35.360 --> 0:13:40.760 would have imagine you'd run into too many surprises. But yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:13:40.960 --> 0:13:47.880 it is an extraordinary life. Um. And you know my 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:54.280 curiosity is continues. You know, I still be reading about him. 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:59.200 The eight hundred books um I think written about him, 0:13:59.360 --> 0:14:04.040 fifty books that he wrote himself. So there is a 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:07.800 wealth of material. And I was just amazed at the 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:14.160 well this first of all, this moment in time has 0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:19.680 has never really been fully documented, at least on film 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:25.280 that's very specific defining sort of five or six weeks 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:30.560 in in in n So that that that was, And 0:14:30.680 --> 0:14:38.720 that was a discovery because, Um, I didn't realize the 0:14:38.760 --> 0:14:43.760 resistance from his own cabinet and actually how perilously close 0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:47.840 we came to really appeal what the peace deal essentially 0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:52.040 it would have been a surrender. Um. But what I mean, 0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:54.200 what do you have? You have a man who is 0:14:57.560 --> 0:15:01.520 I mean he lived to ninety extraordinary life. When you 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:05.480 think that he was, he was He was a heavy 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:10.840 drinker and it was nothing unusual and in those days, 0:15:10.840 --> 0:15:14.440 I mean everybody drank. It's estimated that he smoked a 0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:18.840 hundred and sixty five thousand cigars in his lifetime. That 0:15:18.920 --> 0:15:23.000 they have an estimate for that. Yeah, they've someone some Yeah, 0:15:23.080 --> 0:15:27.840 someone's work worked that out. Um. And then you've got, 0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:35.680 you know, for in four wars, he wrote fifty books. 0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:38.520 He wrote more words than Shakespeare and Dickens put together, 0:15:39.200 --> 0:15:43.400 painted something like almost six hundred paintings, had six hundred 0:15:43.840 --> 0:15:49.360 sixteen exhibitions at the Royal Academy, the Nobel Prize for Literature. 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:53.760 I mean the list sort of just goes, it goes 0:15:53.960 --> 0:15:58.800 on and on and on. And was the man who 0:15:58.880 --> 0:16:03.840 stood up to the nuts see Tyranny Um. The quotes 0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:12.960 are endless. You know that this remarkable giant brain that 0:16:13.040 --> 0:16:18.240 he had. Um, So I've I have sort of developed 0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:22.960 a great appreciation for him. I mean he was a genius. Yeah, 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:29.080 very very unique, very unique man. You've had a number 0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:32.000 of accolades this year, a big swell of support behind 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:35.400 you this awards season. I think a lot of times 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:38.640 with that comes a tendency to look back on one's career. 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:40.800 Are you finding yourself in that position a lot lately 0:16:40.840 --> 0:16:46.720 to look back at your career? And no, I never do. No, 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:49.000 No one's trying to play the lifetime achievement game with you. 0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:56.480 Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, there's been one of those. I think, 0:16:56.920 --> 0:17:02.840 um or yeah, just sort of one's body your work. Um, 0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:08.760 I think what keeps you going is um. Someone must 0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:11.159 asked me, they said, what what what's you know, what's 0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:16.480 the best? You know, what's your what's your favorite role? 0:17:18.280 --> 0:17:21.000 And I always say, you know, next week, the next one, 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:23.840 you know. I think that's what sort of keeps you going. 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:27.119 You know, if you if you get to sort of 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:30.400 complacent and sort of self satisfied with it. I think 0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:37.160 that the wanting to um, wanting to work and make 0:17:37.200 --> 0:17:40.920 it and make it better and get better, and that's 0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:43.640 what sort of keeps you going. I mean, we had 0:17:44.080 --> 0:17:47.040 had a conversation at the Golden Gloves with Denzel Washington, 0:17:47.240 --> 0:17:50.720 who is at the moment, I think him rehearsal for 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:57.679 the Iceman Conneth opens on Broadway, and he doesn't have 0:17:57.800 --> 0:18:04.000 to put himself through that. Um. He's he's playing Theodore Hitman. 0:18:04.119 --> 0:18:10.880 So Matt Mammoth t tanic thing, you know, a giant 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:19.440 role um um, and he can make a living from 0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:27.159 screen acting. UM. But he said, I need I do 0:18:27.320 --> 0:18:31.000 need to do it. I need to feed to feed 0:18:32.040 --> 0:18:38.320 the actor in me. UM. But I don't. I don't, 0:18:39.800 --> 0:18:45.080 I don't. I don't tend to look um to look 0:18:45.200 --> 0:18:51.359 to look back. Honestly, couldn't tell you how many films 0:18:51.400 --> 0:18:55.080 I've made. I'd be very hard pushed to give you 0:18:55.240 --> 0:18:58.879 a list of them off the top of my head. Um, 0:18:59.000 --> 0:19:02.960 it's working, move on? Is that it? Well, it's just 0:19:03.119 --> 0:19:06.560 I think it's I think for me, why why doesn't 0:19:08.280 --> 0:19:16.440 it's old work and I'm looking to move forward and 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:24.800 do new things. Um. Um, you know there are some 0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:29.920 there are some great ones, and I certainly appreciate the 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:34.240 career I've had very I've been very lucky, very and 0:19:34.600 --> 0:19:38.640 I'm very grateful to it. But it's always just nice 0:19:38.680 --> 0:19:42.840 to look forward. Well, if you will indulge me, I'm 0:19:42.840 --> 0:19:45.920 gonna look back a little bit. If I could ask 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:49.200 that favorite role question a little bit differently, like before, 0:19:49.320 --> 0:19:52.000 prior to this role, was there anything that comes to 0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:54.240 mind that was a particular challenge for you to inhabit 0:19:54.280 --> 0:19:57.959 that character. Maybe it was more of a stretch and 0:19:58.040 --> 0:20:00.639 so it was different, more difficult, much challenging for you 0:20:00.680 --> 0:20:03.600 to therefore take on the role. Anything come to mind 0:20:03.600 --> 0:20:14.879 for that? I find in a way the do you 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:23.520 know what? It's a question that comes down to writing. Um, 0:20:23.880 --> 0:20:30.840 I find it, uh, find it easier to work on 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:38.120 something when you've got when you've got a great screenplay. Um, 0:20:38.119 --> 0:20:42.040 a good writer gives you all the clues and maps 0:20:42.080 --> 0:20:45.400 out on the road for you, and then you just 0:20:46.920 --> 0:20:53.400 of course you apply instinct and intuition and talent and 0:20:53.440 --> 0:20:58.200 all all of those things. But you you have you 0:20:58.200 --> 0:21:08.520 you all you really need to do is follow the signposts. Um, 0:21:08.720 --> 0:21:12.159 Golden was quite challenging, believe it or not, which I'm 0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:23.960 sorry James Golden. Yeah, Um, you don't exactly have somebody 0:21:24.040 --> 0:21:26.280 can talk to other than maybe you know, cops or something, 0:21:26.320 --> 0:21:36.320 but like you can't yeah, yeah, yeah, and um, the 0:21:36.560 --> 0:21:41.199 Harry Potter because what you have to do is you 0:21:41.280 --> 0:21:48.359 have to make exposition character. Yeah, and that is tricky. 0:21:49.320 --> 0:21:55.440 You've got to make you're you're really furthering the it's 0:21:55.520 --> 0:22:03.520 plot and you have to make plu interesting and give 0:22:03.560 --> 0:22:11.560 it character. So I find that, Um, you know, it's 0:22:11.560 --> 0:22:13.840 all of course, it's always hard, you know. You you 0:22:13.840 --> 0:22:16.439 you go to as Jim Gordon, you go to a 0:22:16.480 --> 0:22:21.440 scene of a crime and Batman's Batman's already there. It's 0:22:21.600 --> 0:22:26.760 solving it, you know, and it takes a certain amount 0:22:26.760 --> 0:22:34.639 of it does take a certain amount of of technique too. Um, 0:22:36.600 --> 0:22:39.800 just to speak some of that dialogue with that situation, 0:22:40.680 --> 0:22:44.640 get me, you know, you're talking to a walkie talkie 0:22:44.680 --> 0:22:48.919 and or you're looking at green screen and you're you know, 0:22:49.000 --> 0:22:51.639 and you say, get me, I need a swat team 0:22:51.640 --> 0:22:55.080 and a chopper on the roof. You know, you know 0:22:55.480 --> 0:23:00.400 it's it's not Shakespeare. You know, you've got to. So 0:23:00.440 --> 0:23:07.600 I find that I found that quite quite um challenging 0:23:07.600 --> 0:23:10.400 as an actor, because it just seemed like words. Really 0:23:10.400 --> 0:23:13.320 it's like, you've got it, You've got Yeah, you've got 0:23:13.359 --> 0:23:19.560 to You've got to give it. Um, yeah, you have to. 0:23:22.320 --> 0:23:24.400 You know, the stakes are high, and that's the sort 0:23:24.440 --> 0:23:28.520 of emoment that and that's that that's the the emotion 0:23:28.720 --> 0:23:33.360 that that you have to uh convey, you have to 0:23:33.400 --> 0:23:40.240 convey the urgency of the situation. Um. And so I 0:23:40.280 --> 0:23:46.320 found those really I have found those um challenging. What 0:23:46.400 --> 0:23:49.040 about was there ever a role that was difficult for 0:23:49.119 --> 0:23:52.639 kind of the opposite reasons where it was where it 0:23:52.720 --> 0:23:54.720 cut kind of close to the bone, Maybe it was 0:23:54.840 --> 0:23:58.800 closer to who you are than you kind of anticipated 0:23:58.880 --> 0:24:03.560 or anything like that, m and therefore you felt more 0:24:03.800 --> 0:24:15.240 perhaps naked or something in the performing of it. I 0:24:15.280 --> 0:24:24.080 think I've stopped him. Well mm hmm, I forgot about 0:24:24.240 --> 0:24:31.200 you see, I forget, I forget, I forget. Yeah. Um yeah. 0:24:31.240 --> 0:24:36.520 George Smiley in Tinker was was a challenge because you 0:24:36.600 --> 0:24:45.439 had to make um he is a sort of no. Um, 0:24:47.320 --> 0:24:52.840 he's a character who is it blends in um, he's 0:24:52.920 --> 0:25:03.560 sort of um every man. He's just U very bland 0:25:04.680 --> 0:25:12.240 facing the crowd, you know, he's not conspicuous and and 0:25:12.320 --> 0:25:17.359 you and it's all in this giant brain that is 0:25:17.400 --> 0:25:26.320 that is working. Um. But he's very his his blood precious, 0:25:26.440 --> 0:25:30.880 very low, and he's very very still, and it's all 0:25:31.080 --> 0:25:37.080 really in the in the eyes and and you're looking 0:25:37.280 --> 0:25:45.880 for there there there there you know something. UM. So 0:25:45.920 --> 0:25:53.760 I think that was that was a test um and 0:25:53.560 --> 0:26:00.760 and initially I was very I felt I was very 0:26:00.960 --> 0:26:05.080 very in the shadow of Salc Guinness. You know, he 0:26:05.119 --> 0:26:09.520 had he had he was the face of George Smiley 0:26:09.880 --> 0:26:14.200 and had such a great success with it. That and 0:26:14.600 --> 0:26:16.840 of course the little Kari people, you know, I mean, 0:26:17.040 --> 0:26:21.440 it's a the huge those books. It has a great following, 0:26:21.480 --> 0:26:28.520 and Smiley as a very beloved character. Um. And for 0:26:28.640 --> 0:26:39.400 many of them, Guinness was was the physical incarnation of George. 0:26:39.880 --> 0:26:43.040 So that was that there were a few dragons there 0:26:43.080 --> 0:26:48.840 that I had to slam. Yeah. I got into a 0:26:48.920 --> 0:26:54.320 very very insecure headspace, you know, taking it as sort 0:26:54.359 --> 0:26:57.840 of taking it on or you were justly were rewarded 0:26:58.359 --> 0:27:02.280 with you know, and yeah and once once once, once 0:27:02.320 --> 0:27:05.040 you're in you know a lot of the lot of 0:27:05.040 --> 0:27:09.679 the anxiety that you have is is I don't know, 0:27:09.800 --> 0:27:12.720 it's almost like you forget, you forget what you do 0:27:13.880 --> 0:27:16.600 and you get, well I do. I can't speak for 0:27:16.640 --> 0:27:19.320 every actor, but I get you know, I have my 0:27:19.320 --> 0:27:22.040 my doubts and my insecurities and all the rest of it. 0:27:22.080 --> 0:27:23.520 And then of course when you get to the set 0:27:23.560 --> 0:27:25.560 and you do but you're doing the work. You know, 0:27:25.640 --> 0:27:30.000 you're doing the work. Um, you do the homework. But 0:27:31.200 --> 0:27:33.760 and it's this thing. I get to the set and 0:27:33.800 --> 0:27:39.840 then it's like, oh yeah, oh yeah, I know I 0:27:39.960 --> 0:27:43.320 know where I am. Oh yeah, this is why I do. 0:27:44.640 --> 0:27:47.520 I know how to do this? Yeah yeah, And that's 0:27:47.640 --> 0:27:50.280 I think, what really And that's what happened with with 0:27:50.280 --> 0:27:55.840 with George. I went down to the set on the 0:27:55.920 --> 0:28:01.359 first day for the first take and and Douglas who's 0:28:01.640 --> 0:28:05.200 who's Here's my sort of collaborate a long long time 0:28:06.600 --> 0:28:12.240 creative partner, Douglas Sabanski. Um, he was there, and I said, don't, don't, 0:28:12.480 --> 0:28:17.200 don't come down for the first take. I just want 0:28:17.240 --> 0:28:22.520 to go down and and don't. I don't know what 0:28:22.640 --> 0:28:25.119 I'm thinking, but just let me. Let me just go 0:28:25.280 --> 0:28:32.359 and do the first take. Don't don't watch and m 0:28:33.840 --> 0:28:35.960 I wanted to get Yeah, I wanted to. Yeah. I 0:28:35.960 --> 0:28:38.640 wanted to just sort of get on the bicycle and 0:28:38.280 --> 0:28:42.480 and and see if I would fall off. And anyway, 0:28:42.520 --> 0:28:48.000 I went down there and took George around the block 0:28:48.760 --> 0:28:51.800 and then came back to him and said, yeah, it's okay, 0:28:51.840 --> 0:28:55.600 you can come down now. I'll tell you one of 0:28:55.600 --> 0:28:58.160 my favorites and I'll share this with your head. Sam 0:28:58.240 --> 0:29:01.320 Rockwell on the show a few weeks and we were 0:29:01.360 --> 0:29:04.600 talking about darkest hour in your work, and he was like, 0:29:05.520 --> 0:29:07.400 he's one of my favorite actors. Man. The first one 0:29:07.400 --> 0:29:08.760 he went to was one of my favorites in that 0:29:08.880 --> 0:29:14.840 state of grace. M hmm, just electric portrayal. You say 0:29:14.880 --> 0:29:16.240 you don't look back, so I don't know if you 0:29:16.320 --> 0:29:19.160 have many memories of it, but I have idea. Funny 0:29:19.240 --> 0:29:22.200 enough you mentioned it, I have I have a memory 0:29:22.200 --> 0:29:24.040 of it because I was only speaking about it in 0:29:24.040 --> 0:29:27.840 the other night at a Q and I. Um. I 0:29:27.880 --> 0:29:36.320 thought that I that was one that m I had 0:29:36.320 --> 0:29:43.400 this Irish accent, this sort of Westy accent, and really 0:29:43.440 --> 0:29:50.240 that's all I had. And it was just sound of fury, 0:29:50.320 --> 0:29:57.440 you know. And I I would we were reading scenes, 0:29:59.160 --> 0:30:06.200 and Sean Penn would then go off to in the 0:30:06.240 --> 0:30:10.560 corner with the director and they would whisper something and 0:30:10.600 --> 0:30:15.680 then come back and then we would read, you know, 0:30:15.840 --> 0:30:19.680 read more scenes, and then there'd be a little break, 0:30:19.840 --> 0:30:22.280 and then they would be sewn in the corner with 0:30:22.400 --> 0:30:26.680 the director and they were you know, you get paranoid 0:30:26.720 --> 0:30:31.560 because you think they are they talking about me. And 0:30:31.640 --> 0:30:34.479 I thought that they had already let one actor go 0:30:35.160 --> 0:30:37.880 and I thought I was the next. So I thought 0:30:37.920 --> 0:30:45.000 I was going to be fired. And and I couldn't 0:30:45.000 --> 0:30:50.479 find this character. Um, And it was just a voice. 0:30:50.720 --> 0:30:53.720 It was What I mean by that is that I 0:30:53.760 --> 0:31:00.360 didn't own it. It wasn't centered. And any way, at 0:31:00.400 --> 0:31:04.880 the eleventh hour, I went to a costume fitting and 0:31:05.040 --> 0:31:08.640 I put on a leather jacket and I flicked I 0:31:08.720 --> 0:31:10.800 was looking in the mirror and I flicked my hair. 0:31:11.560 --> 0:31:14.360 I had long hair at the time, and I flicked 0:31:14.360 --> 0:31:20.239 my hair and I went gun him. There he is ah, 0:31:20.800 --> 0:31:29.320 and the cloak of inspiration fell at the eleventh hour. Now, 0:31:29.440 --> 0:31:34.240 sometimes it falls early and sometimes it falls late. And 0:31:35.240 --> 0:31:39.080 and honestly and truly, there have been times when it 0:31:39.200 --> 0:31:44.520 has abandoned me. You know. Yeah, you just hope you're 0:31:44.520 --> 0:31:49.440 going to find something, you know, you need that. It's like, 0:31:49.800 --> 0:31:52.719 I need the hook. I've got to what you know 0:31:52.840 --> 0:32:01.920 for Churchill. Obviously, the the voice is very it's very famous. 0:32:02.720 --> 0:32:11.560 You know, the rhythms, the the the the meter, the 0:32:10.920 --> 0:32:16.200 the the inflection and the even the tombrother. The sound 0:32:16.280 --> 0:32:23.560 of the voice is it's notorious. But um, but what 0:32:23.560 --> 0:32:27.240 what struck me was the dynamism and the energy of 0:32:27.240 --> 0:32:31.920 the character from a lot of the not only from 0:32:31.960 --> 0:32:34.520 the news real footage that I was watching, but from 0:32:34.720 --> 0:32:39.720 the telling in the books of people that worked with 0:32:39.840 --> 0:32:47.280 him and around him. Um. So the physicality of Churchill 0:32:47.520 --> 0:32:52.440 was the first thing that that was the the energy 0:32:52.680 --> 0:33:00.040 of him. And there's brain whirling, Um, you know of 0:33:00.120 --> 0:33:02.959 five thousand miles an hour, and people that could you know, 0:33:03.080 --> 0:33:08.800 they couldn't keep up with him. Um. That was the 0:33:10.120 --> 0:33:13.640 that was the hook. That was what opened the door 0:33:14.240 --> 0:33:19.160 to sort of find him. Um. But it's amazing that 0:33:19.200 --> 0:33:22.640 you can you can go through a whole rehearsal and 0:33:22.760 --> 0:33:27.840