1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: Well, welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. This one should 2 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: be very interesting because I think all through the twenty 3 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:12,200 Speaker 1: twenty four election, we were all saying, gosh, I cannot 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: wait until like twenty years from now there's a book 5 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:17,760 Speaker 1: on this and we know exactly what happened behind the scenes. 6 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:20,239 Speaker 1: But we didn't have to wait for twenty years because 7 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:21,960 Speaker 1: Jonathan Allen wrote it for us. 8 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 2: So today we get to talk to him. 9 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 1: He's the NBC News senior National politics reporter and he 10 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:31,480 Speaker 1: teamed up with the Hills Amy Parns to write this book. 11 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 1: It's called Fight Inside the Wildest Battle for the White House. Jonathan, 12 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 1: thank you for joining. 13 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 3: Me, my pleasure. I'm excited to talk to an experienced campaigner. 14 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 1: Well, I actually was reading through this and I'm like, 15 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 1: this is the behind the scenes that people don't know 16 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: and the amount of information the candidate doesn't know. Like 17 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: you kind of highlight how much they keep from the candidate, 18 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 1: which as a former candidate, it's like. 19 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 2: Oh, it makes you so mad. 20 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:03,320 Speaker 1: You know, you read it, You're like, this is so 21 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:07,919 Speaker 1: embarrassing that you are kind of kept in this cloud 22 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:10,040 Speaker 1: of I don't know, I guess you're kept at a 23 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 1: cloud of joy to keep you happy. 24 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:12,480 Speaker 2: And it makes sense. 25 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 3: I mean, I think it is. It's a joy bubble. 26 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 3: The idea is to make the candidate comfortable and for 27 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 3: the staff to make as many decisions as possible without 28 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 3: the candidate and around the candidate. I mean, it's really 29 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 3: like managing somebody, you know, managing up yes campayn manager 30 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 3: and others. And I think that I think that there 31 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:37,320 Speaker 3: are certain politicians, and certainly those who have become more experienced, 32 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:39,480 Speaker 3: who sometimes say to themselves, you know what, it is 33 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 3: better for me to have a more hands on role 34 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 3: in managing my own campaign because I now understand what 35 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 3: it is that they're keeping from me and what it is. 36 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 3: I'm not being told what it is. I should be 37 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 3: being told what it is that you know, we should 38 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 3: be doing that we're not doing. And I think, actually, 39 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 3: look to your point, and I'm glad you brought it up. 40 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 3: No one has before. You really get a sense of 41 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 3: how much a candidate is in a cocoon, and depending 42 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 3: on the candidate, some are more so and some less so. 43 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 1: Well, and this was such an interesting race because I 44 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 1: think a lot of people were saying for a long time, well, 45 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:16,240 Speaker 1: I know a lot of people on the right side 46 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 1: were saying Joe Biden's off, and I think there was 47 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 1: this ability to kind of play it off as he's 48 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 1: not because that's just the attack from the right, and 49 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 1: maybe even at the beginning it was pushed a little 50 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: bit more than he was. 51 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 2: But if you look at the. 52 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 1: Recordings of him in twenty nineteen to twenty three to 53 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 1: twenty four, there's a striking difference and you start to 54 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 1: highlight that behind the scenes, there's a bit of a 55 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:43,080 Speaker 1: crack in the facade. 56 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, And you know the thing is, I think 57 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:49,520 Speaker 3: even in twenty twenty when he ran, it was clear 58 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 3: he'd lost something off his basketball. For those of us 59 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 3: who covered him in Congress or during the vice presidency, 60 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 3: this was a guy that was a chatterbox. You couldn't 61 00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 3: get him to shut up, you know, who would talk 62 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 3: to reporters about anything. And then suddenly you know he's 63 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 3: being hidden, you know, effectively in twenty twenty and a pandemic. 64 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 3: You know, because of the pandemic, there were some reasons, 65 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:10,239 Speaker 3: you know, you were going to have big events with 66 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 3: big crowds, But at the same time, I think his 67 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 3: team used that as an excuse to not talk to 68 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:19,360 Speaker 3: the press much, and so you could see that there 69 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 3: was some slippage there, but it wasn't wasn't necessarily an acuity. 70 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 3: Then maybe a little bit. It's harder to tell. I'm 71 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 3: not a doctor, but he wasn't the same guy in 72 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 3: twenty twenty. But there's a progression. People get older, and 73 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 3: if they are suffering from a loss of acuity, that 74 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:36,839 Speaker 3: gets more acute over time. 75 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: And we didn't see him, so that made us even 76 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 1: more skeptical. You know, even once he becomes president, he 77 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 1: doesn't hold press conferences, he doesn't need questions, and then 78 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 1: there was a weird he starts to take questions, but 79 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 1: he's calling out specific reporters, which just felt. 80 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 3: Odd, certainly, and for a guy who spent his entire 81 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 3: career having great relationships with reporters and knowing them by 82 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 3: name and asking about their kids. You know, there was 83 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 3: just a noticeable difference. And we you know, we have 84 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 3: episodes in the book or scenes in the book where 85 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 3: different Democrats come to the realization that what Republicans are 86 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 3: saying about Joe Biden is not unfounded and in some 87 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 3: cases more right, because you made the point that Democrats 88 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 3: were able to sort of delude themselves into thinking this 89 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:29,039 Speaker 3: is a Republican talking point. We live in such partisan times. 90 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:32,160 Speaker 3: But for all of those, all the US who watched 91 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:34,279 Speaker 3: Joe Biden on television, whether we were people who've spent 92 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:36,600 Speaker 3: time with him or not, we could tell there was 93 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 3: a problem or we could tell there was a difference. 94 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 3: Erk Swalwell, the congressman from California, goes to meet goes 95 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:45,039 Speaker 3: to a picnic at the White House in twenty twenty three, 96 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:47,600 Speaker 3: in the summer of twenty twenty three. He had run 97 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:51,039 Speaker 3: against Joe Biden in the twenty twenty primary. And he 98 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:53,039 Speaker 3: starts to talk to Biden, and Biden doesn't know who 99 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:55,600 Speaker 3: he is. And Swallow has to kind of que Biden 100 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:57,919 Speaker 3: to know who Swawell is. And Swalwell was like an 101 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 3: impeachment manager against Trump. This is not nobody who most 102 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 3: of Washington doesn't know. I mean, I understand, not everybody 103 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 3: in the country, not everybody who's not watching cable news, 104 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 3: you know, knows Eric Swawell. But he is a well 105 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 3: known guy. Biden doesn't recognize him. Biden's talking to donors 106 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 3: in June of twenty twenty three and just freezes, you know, 107 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 3: sort of the episode has described similar to what we 108 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 3: saw from Senator McConnell a few years ago, where you know, 109 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:27,039 Speaker 3: he would just kind of freeze up, and so folks 110 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 3: who didn't see him all the time but every once 111 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 3: in a while noticed a precipitous decline in his capacity. 112 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 1: Well, I think that was the swallwall chapter was kind 113 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 1: of interesting because he says, I mean, he clearly thought 114 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: that was strange. And you would because if you have 115 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:45,159 Speaker 1: been on the debate stage with someone, you certainly recognize 116 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:47,799 Speaker 1: them when you see them off the debate stage. 117 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 2: So he definitely thought that that was odd. 118 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 1: And then he comments later that in the debate, they're 119 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:57,599 Speaker 1: joking about, oh, you're going to jail man because the 120 00:05:57,640 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 1: debate was so bad. 121 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's right. It's Swallwell and Reuben Diego, who's 122 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 3: now a senator from Arizona. They're watching the debate with 123 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 3: their wives and there's a knock at the door, and 124 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 3: of course the debate is going terribly for the Democrats. 125 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 3: There's this knock at the door, and Diego, you know, 126 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:16,360 Speaker 3: looks at Swallowa and he's like, man, it's over, it's up. 127 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 3: You're going to jail. Trump's president, and you better run. 128 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:22,920 Speaker 3: And it turns out it's you know, Uber eats at 129 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:25,600 Speaker 3: the door and the whole time Swallwell's going to the door. 130 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:27,840 Speaker 3: Diego is like keeping up the act. He's like, look, man, 131 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 3: if you need to run, I can find a place 132 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:32,680 Speaker 3: for you to hide here. He's from Arizona. He's like, 133 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 3: I know people in the tribes. It's kind of a 134 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:38,600 Speaker 3: kind of a light moment and at a very dark 135 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 3: time for the Democrat. 136 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 1: I think that I think that's exactly what it is, 137 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 1: because I think there is this moment. 138 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 2: I mean, just the way you describe it in the book, 139 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 2: and I encourage people to. 140 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:49,279 Speaker 1: Read it because it is truly a behind the scenes 141 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 1: and I don't know how you got all of the 142 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 1: behind the scenes, but the knowledge that you have of 143 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi sitting alone. 144 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:57,479 Speaker 2: And it's interesting because I think. 145 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 1: When politics is really personal to you and when you're 146 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:04,719 Speaker 1: very highly engaged, these are kind of moments you don't 147 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 1: want to be around a bunch of people. I remember 148 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 1: being invited to go to a watch party and you're like, 149 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 1: if I go to the watch party, a everybody's gonna 150 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 1: be talking and I won't hear it. 151 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 2: And what if it goes horribly wrong, and I. 152 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 3: Think a Midwestern so a whole like you just you 153 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 3: just wrote a whole book about like the Midwestern frame 154 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 3: of mind, like right. 155 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 2: There, because we all go and watch it together in talk, 156 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 2: I know. 157 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 3: You're just quietly thinking to yourself, well, what if all 158 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 3: this goes wrong? 159 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, well of course yeah. 160 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 1: And that was honestly, I'm like, beforehand we had I 161 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: remember going to an event beforehand and people were like, 162 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 1: I cannot wait, It's gonna be amazing, and I'm like, 163 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna I want to make sure it's amazing. 164 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 1: I just want to feel like it's gonna be great, 165 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 1: because you didn't know who Joe Biden was at that point. 166 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 1: We didn't know he had had the State of the Union, 167 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 1: and he seemed lucid, and people were like, it's not 168 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 1: like you can just turn it on and turn it 169 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 1: off if you can't be looseid one minute and totally 170 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 1: lose it the next. But in the book you has 171 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 1: say that he had days where he was getting to 172 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 1: the point where he had more foggy days than clear, 173 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 1: clear days, and that is kind of how things go, 174 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 1: which is it's not it's not a book it's not 175 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 1: something to gloat about. And I just want you to 176 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 1: know that when you read it and you're on the 177 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 1: right side of the aisle, you don't read it and 178 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 1: go ha ha ha, we were right. 179 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 2: You read it and you go, how did this happen? 180 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 3: It's I mean, it's sad on a human level, right, 181 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:35,440 Speaker 3: I mean, anyone aging, anyone who's having struggle, struggles with 182 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 3: their their acuity. And you know, in the case of 183 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 3: Joe Biden, somebody who you know, spent a spent a 184 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 3: career in h in public service, and has now subjected 185 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 3: himself to the biggest spotlight in the world and has 186 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 3: the worst moment that anyone has seen from him or 187 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 3: anybody else in a presidential debate. Uh, you know, with 188 00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 3: that bright spotlight on him. That's sad is that this 189 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 3: was the leader of the free world so clearly bereft 190 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:08,440 Speaker 3: of coherent thought even for a moment. Right, even if 191 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 3: that was the worst moment, I think a large number 192 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:14,720 Speaker 3: of Americans thought to themselves, the president of the United 193 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:16,960 Speaker 3: States cannot have any moments like that. 194 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, we have no leader. 195 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:21,720 Speaker 3: I mean, that's how it was frightening. It should have 196 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 3: been frightening. And if you weren't frightened by it, You 197 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 3: know that. I think that's an indication of the degree 198 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 3: to which you're a partisan supporter of Joe Biden. And 199 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 3: that's not to disparage people who are partisan supporters of candidates, 200 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 3: but you'd have to be that to have that level 201 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:41,680 Speaker 3: of delusion and not be concerned by what you saw 202 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 3: in the leader of the free world, the person with 203 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 3: his finger on the nuclear button. 204 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 1: Well, and people who I would have thought would be like, 205 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 1: you know what, he had a bad night and we're 206 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 1: going to rally around didn't. And it's very The phone 207 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 1: tree that ensues after the debate that you talk you 208 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 1: write about is quite enlightening to have Nancy Pelosi and 209 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: everybody suddenly texting, who what are we going to do? 210 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:09,440 Speaker 2: This? Is it? He's done? 211 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: And I don't think that they fully at that point, 212 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:15,200 Speaker 1: I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, grasp that they're 213 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 1: going to pull him, They're going to put someone else. 214 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 2: They're kind of free falling like what just happened? What 215 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 2: did we just see? 216 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 3: I think it's a spectrum, and one of the things 217 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:25,679 Speaker 3: we tried to do with the book is show that 218 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 3: spectrum of reaction. Some people are. You know, the Biden 219 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 3: campaign is like, it's just a bad night, and everybody 220 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 3: else is like, cut the crap, it's not just a 221 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 3: bad night. But they have different levels of how much 222 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:40,320 Speaker 3: worse it was than a bad night. I think Pelosi 223 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 3: immediately realized that this was probably fatal for the Biden campaign. 224 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 3: The question of how to get Biden out and who 225 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:50,600 Speaker 3: would replace him is something that she wrestled with over 226 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 3: the course of the next three and a half weeks, 227 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:56,720 Speaker 3: as the Democratic Party did, but she instantly her instinct, 228 00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 3: according to somebody who talked to her at the time, 229 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 3: was she was worried that there would be such a 230 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:04,680 Speaker 3: bum rush to get Biden out. That night, I remember 231 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 3: she's getting text messages and phone calls from donors, from 232 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:10,840 Speaker 3: members of Congress, from other political leaders, and she's realizing 233 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 3: how alarmed they are, and she's like, he's going to 234 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 3: get such a bum rush that we're going to end 235 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:18,440 Speaker 3: up with Kamala Harris and never stop or pause to 236 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 3: think about whether that's a good decision. And so I 237 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:23,839 Speaker 3: think she tried to manage that process as best as 238 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 3: she could, tried to keep her fingerprints off of it 239 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:28,479 Speaker 3: for a while, and at some point it became impossible 240 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 3: for her to keep her fingerprints off of it because 241 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 3: none of the other Democrats would have, you know, basically 242 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 3: had the courage to push Biden out. 243 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 2: But the weird thing to me is there does seem 244 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 2: to be there's this undertone of it can't be Harris 245 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 2: throughout that period. 246 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 1: There's a lot of people who are panicked about it, 247 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 1: and then there's kind of the discussion of how Whitmer 248 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 1: had been the choice, the second choice. Now it's interesting 249 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 1: because from Michigan we had been told Whitmer was the 250 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:00,680 Speaker 1: first choice and that her staff had actually started looking 251 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 1: at real estate down there, and then at the last 252 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 1: minute that was kind of like pulled, hey, no, and 253 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:09,319 Speaker 1: that race discussion came intoway. He said it would be 254 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 1: a black woman. It has to be a black woman, 255 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:15,080 Speaker 1: you can't be the candidate. And yet when it comes 256 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 1: down which I think is sort of an interesting identity 257 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 1: politics issue, because when it comes down to we need 258 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: a new candidate, it seems like the majority of people 259 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 1: are jumping toward Whitmer, but they get pulled, no, it 260 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 1: has to be Harris. 261 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:32,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know if it's the majority of people. 262 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 3: You know, what's fascinating from the Michigan perspective, and Bret, 263 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 3: maybe this isn't surprising. On the night of the debate, 264 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 3: Hillary Skulton from Michigan, the congressman, is in a group 265 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:46,439 Speaker 3: chat with a bunch of Democratic women members of Congress 266 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 3: and she texts Whitmer for President, Like, Biden's like still 267 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:54,959 Speaker 3: in Atlanta, you know, the debate has just gone on, 268 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 3: and she's like, Whitmer for President. And the response and 269 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 3: then somebody else on the chain echoes that, and then 270 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 3: some women from the congressional Black cawk has start pushing back, 271 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 3: and they're not pushing back saying, hey, Joe's our guy. 272 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 3: They're saying, you know, over our dead body is Kamala 273 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 3: Harris going to get skipped over? So to the question 274 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 3: of like, how early were some of the people looking 275 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 3: at this is the end of Joe Biden, It was 276 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 3: certainly long before he dropped out. Yeah. Whitmer was scarred 277 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 3: from that first experience. She really didn't like like the 278 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 3: political infighting that went on. She felt like she had 279 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:37,200 Speaker 3: been depicted poorly along racial lines in the battle with Harris, 280 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 3: the sort of shadow battle to become Joe Biden's vice 281 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 3: presidential pick. And it's something she didn't really invite. You know, 282 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 3: she felt like she walked out of that weaker and 283 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:50,080 Speaker 3: having been accused of things that she wasn't you know, 284 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 3: that she didn't really feel were fair in order to 285 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:55,319 Speaker 3: make her look bad. And we all know politics, I mean, 286 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 3: politicians will use whatever they can for whatever reason. 287 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not going to sit a lot of tears 288 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:03,080 Speaker 1: over that, but you know, that's personal. 289 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:05,960 Speaker 3: She said. But she felt she that it harmed her 290 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 3: to the point that she called Kamala Harris a couple 291 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 3: of days after the debate and said said, I'm not 292 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 3: going to run for president under anything. Yeah. 293 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:17,080 Speaker 2: I thought that was interesting, that conversation, and that's. 294 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:18,840 Speaker 3: Never been reported before first time in our book. 295 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I was. I was impressed with that. It 296 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 1: was a hey, I'm not even trying. This is not 297 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 1: don't feel like I'm trying to encroach on your lane 298 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:30,640 Speaker 1: right now. I'm not trying to do this. Don't send 299 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 1: your dogs after me. 300 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 3: Basically, and you know, the Harris people, at least some 301 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 3: people related to her, so I gotta be careful with 302 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 3: my sourcing here. You know, openly admitted that they you know, 303 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 3: openly admitted that they did some political dirty tricks on 304 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 3: Whitmer back in back in the twenty twenty days. You know, 305 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 3: it was not a false perception that Whitmer had that 306 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 3: Kamala Harris's team would do everything they could to undermine 307 00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 3: her if they felt like she was a problem. So 308 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 3: she made the call and said, like, you know, basically, 309 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 3: if she's not going to run for president and under 310 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 3: any circumstances, why take the pain of somebody thinking you 311 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 3: are and trying to take you out. 312 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 1: And eventually she does want to, so she was not 313 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:12,760 Speaker 1: wanting to ruin her reputation by any means. I mean, 314 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 1: I think everybody here kind of has seen the trajectory 315 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 1: of her political career, and she's smart, she knows what 316 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 1: she's doing. She doesn't want that ruin. She wants to 317 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 1: have an opportunity in the future. So I give her 318 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 1: credit as a politician for doing that. She saw the 319 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 1: future and she said I'm not going to let this 320 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 1: wreck it. But still not everybody else in the party 321 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 1: was on board with Harris, and even Obama wasn't really 322 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 1: on board with Harris. 323 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 2: He wanted an open primary. 324 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. You know, we report in this book 325 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 3: on sort of all the behind the scenes conversations Obama 326 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 3: and Biden, Obama and Pelosi. They had a couple conversations 327 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 3: about what to do about Biden, you know, Biden and Pelosi, 328 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 3: you know, as he's trying to stay in and she's 329 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:59,520 Speaker 3: trying to destabilize him, and Pelosi didn't want Harris. Obama 330 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 3: didn't want Harris. Biden wanted Biden certainly more than Harris, 331 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 3: and did some things over the course of that process 332 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:12,640 Speaker 3: and afterward that were really harmful to Harris. And so 333 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 3: he ends up and he endorses her, but you know, 334 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 3: he obviously didn't want her to be the Democratic nominee. 335 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 3: He wanted to be the Democratic nominee. And the problem 336 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 3: for the Democrats was a lot of them at the 337 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 3: very high level looked at Kamala Harris and said she's 338 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 3: not the best candidate. We can do better than her. 339 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 3: And I'm not sure that a the grassroots voters agreed 340 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 3: with that, because she was the vice president that they've 341 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 3: been supportive of for the last several years. Like it 342 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 3: takes a lot for people to hear, you know, how 343 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 3: great she is for three or four years and then decide, well, no, 344 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 3: I no longer think she's great, but the bigger problem 345 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 3: for them was, and you got to this a little bit, 346 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 3: I think the racial and gender politics of the Democrats 347 00:16:56,400 --> 00:17:01,200 Speaker 3: trying to pass over a black woman vice president. That's 348 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 3: not happening in the Democratic Party. Like the writing was 349 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 3: on the wall, there is no world in which that 350 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:11,360 Speaker 3: happens in the party without them sacrificing the next three 351 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 3: or four elections because the fear would be you have 352 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:19,480 Speaker 3: an open war over it, and ultimately, you know, black 353 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:23,160 Speaker 3: voters would be angry about it. Not all black voters 354 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:25,640 Speaker 3: would be angry about it. I don't mean to suggest 355 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:29,879 Speaker 3: a monolith, but the party influencers would be pretty pissed 356 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 3: for a long time. 357 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,639 Speaker 1: Stick around for more with Jonathan Allen, But first I 358 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 1: want to tell you about my partners at Preborn. According 359 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 1: to a recent study, as many as twenty percent of 360 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:44,160 Speaker 1: women who undergo chemical abortions suffer complications, sometimes even death. 361 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 1: And did you know that the Biden administration loosened restrictions 362 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:51,359 Speaker 1: by not requiring the NIH to report injuries caused by 363 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:55,400 Speaker 1: the abortion pill. And this pill accounts for over sixty 364 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:59,680 Speaker 1: percent of abortions. Preborn's network of clinics sees many women 365 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 1: seek help after taking this pill, regretting their decision, and 366 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:07,399 Speaker 1: some even come in with their aborted baby's remains, not 367 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:10,639 Speaker 1: knowing what to do with them. 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That's pound two fifty baby, or visit 377 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:45,120 Speaker 1: Preborn dot com slash dixon. That's preborn dot com slash dixon. 378 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:50,679 Speaker 1: This was sponsored by Preborn. So do you think for 379 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:53,600 Speaker 1: Biden it was just about I want it to be 380 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 1: me or do you think that there was not always? 381 00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:59,400 Speaker 1: I mean, we always have been curious about the relationship 382 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 1: between the two two of them because it never felt 383 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,120 Speaker 1: like it was warm and cozy. It did always kind 384 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 1: of feel like it was an arranged marriage. Do you 385 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:09,120 Speaker 1: think it was just that he wanted to be the president, 386 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 1: or was he like, I don't think she's even as 387 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 1: good as me. 388 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:16,360 Speaker 3: I think both. I mean, you know, but I think 389 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 3: what's interesting about all of this is you sort of 390 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:22,639 Speaker 3: get this exposure of which of the political players in 391 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 3: the Democratic Party are putting the interests of the party, 392 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:29,199 Speaker 3: and because partisans believe that their party is good for 393 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 3: the country, the interests of the country above themselves, and 394 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:35,439 Speaker 3: which ones are putting themselves above those things. And we 395 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 3: see that play out in real time in the aftermath 396 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:42,920 Speaker 3: of the debate, and Biden continually puts himself in front 397 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:46,879 Speaker 3: of everything else. And you know, maybe that's you know, 398 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:49,360 Speaker 3: maybe people who become president of the United States are 399 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 3: a that and be good at hiding that they're that, 400 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 3: you know, I mean, I think there's something to that 401 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:56,639 Speaker 3: that you know, perhaps Biden was that way all along, 402 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 3: but better at hiding it than some I don't. You know, 403 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:02,400 Speaker 3: President doesn't even try to hide it. He's like, I'm 404 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 3: out for me, but out for me is good for you, 405 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 3: And so you know, the accept the out for me, 406 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:08,119 Speaker 3: and it's you know, I think that's one of the 407 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 3: reasons people find him authentic is that he's not trying 408 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 3: to cover up you know, his that his he has 409 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 3: a self interest and he will pursue the self interest 410 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 3: and he believes that self interest is in line with 411 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:21,639 Speaker 3: the interests of the public. But traditionally you kind of 412 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:23,639 Speaker 3: try to hide that if you have it. Biden doesn't 413 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:27,879 Speaker 3: hide it. You know, once once the debate happens, his 414 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:34,040 Speaker 3: staff starts, uh starts bashing Kamala Harris to donors and 415 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:37,680 Speaker 3: to politicians, and they they're saying, like, you know, if 416 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:40,639 Speaker 3: you if you keep on pushing on Biden to get out, 417 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:42,119 Speaker 3: you're gonna end up with Harris, and that's going to 418 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 3: be disaster for the party. This is the sitting vice 419 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 3: president of the United States and clearly the most likely 420 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 3: person to take over if he steps aside, and his 421 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 3: team is just like, you know, taking a baseball bat 422 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:53,159 Speaker 3: toward kneecaps. 423 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 1: That I mean, to be honest, that seems very crazy 424 00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 1: because I think as Americans, we've always sort of felt 425 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 1: like the vice president and the president were a team, 426 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:06,480 Speaker 1: and you never you certainly don't want them against each other, 427 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:09,439 Speaker 1: and so that was surprising. But then but then it 428 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:13,520 Speaker 1: does they they all come together. It's Kamala. We talked 429 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:16,960 Speaker 1: about that weird feeling of you you don't you're kept 430 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 1: in the dark ass the candidate. That was also very 431 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:24,960 Speaker 1: shocking to me that she was overwhelmingly surprised that she lost. 432 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:29,879 Speaker 1: But if you're if you take yourself, it's hard because 433 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:34,960 Speaker 1: I lived this the campaign as well, right, So I 434 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 1: feel like I maybe I read that differently, and I 435 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:42,360 Speaker 1: think that you have. She's having these rallies and I'm 436 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:45,199 Speaker 1: watching on TV and I'm like, if I'm her, I 437 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:48,920 Speaker 1: think this too. I've got Beyonce, I've got Oprah. These 438 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: rallies are huge. There's so many people coming everywhere I go. 439 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 1: People love me, you know. It's like such a there's 440 00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 1: so much energy, it's so hyped. I've got Barack Obama 441 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 1: behind me, the entire party is behind me. 442 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:04,160 Speaker 2: I'm the person. 443 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:08,199 Speaker 1: And the polls, the polls on TV, I mean, the 444 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:11,679 Speaker 1: national polls that we're seeing have it very close. The 445 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:16,199 Speaker 1: one like chink in the armor is that you see 446 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 1: Alissa slot can start running ads with Donald Trump, and 447 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:24,119 Speaker 1: then other Senate candidates start running ads with Donald Trump, 448 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 1: and it's like there's this time when here in Michigan 449 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 1: we go, are they not releasing really bad numbers, because 450 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 1: why is Alissa Slotkin putting Trump in her ads? 451 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 2: This is very weird. She wins, Kamala loses. 452 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:42,360 Speaker 3: I think the Democrats call that a permission structure, which 453 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 3: is Alyssa slock And saying it's okay to vote for 454 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 3: both Trump and me, knowing, you know, sensing that Trump 455 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:51,120 Speaker 3: is in a better spot in Michigan, and that she's 456 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 3: going to lose more, you know, being stapled to Kamala 457 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 3: Harris than stapled to Donald Trump. And she worried about 458 00:22:57,560 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 3: that all along. Another thing we report in this book 459 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,120 Speaker 3: for the first the day that Donald Trump is shot 460 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 3: in Butler, Pennsylvania, July thirteenth, At the same time, roughly 461 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:10,439 Speaker 3: the same time, Alissa Slockin is at a fundraiser on 462 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 3: Long Island in New York, and Adam Shift, the congressman 463 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,119 Speaker 3: from California who is also running for Senate, gets up 464 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 3: and basically says, you know, it's time to get rid 465 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 3: of Biden to a small group of donors. And then 466 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:27,480 Speaker 3: Slacken gets up and she starts basically making the case 467 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 3: that Biden is better for her and for other Democrats 468 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 3: down ballot than Harris. And she's Basically, Biden's not very good. 469 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:37,320 Speaker 3: We could all see he was old. We could all 470 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 3: see that this is a problem. But Kamala Harris is 471 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:45,639 Speaker 3: going to get tied to the woke left, and she 472 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 3: is not a good candidate and she is going to 473 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:51,440 Speaker 3: bring us down. And we can't have a fight where 474 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:53,680 Speaker 3: we skip over her because that will destroy our party. 475 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:58,680 Speaker 3: So basically, her messages leave Biden in place, and that 476 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:00,400 Speaker 3: was never reported this time. 477 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:01,680 Speaker 2: I've never heard that why. 478 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:04,359 Speaker 3: And it's very frank from her And to your point 479 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,119 Speaker 3: about the ads she ran later, you know, this was 480 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:08,920 Speaker 3: something she had some time to think about. Was Kamala 481 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 3: Harris good for her or bad for her? And she 482 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 3: thought the answer was bad for. 483 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 2: Her, and she was right. I mean, her ads are effective. 484 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:19,439 Speaker 3: Tudor. I want to say something just because you you 485 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:23,439 Speaker 3: mentioned the surprise that she has on election, that Kamala 486 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 3: Harris has on election night, and we go into real 487 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,399 Speaker 3: detail about the the last hours of the campaign and 488 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:33,400 Speaker 3: what she's hearing from you know, from her aids and advisors, 489 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 3: and even take you into the living quarters of the 490 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,679 Speaker 3: Vice president's residence. You know, when she finds out that 491 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 3: she's lost and and can't can't really compute it can't 492 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 3: really figure out what happened here because I saw the crowds, 493 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 3: I saw the love. My team told me that I 494 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:50,919 Speaker 3: you know, I was in good position to win my 495 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,399 Speaker 3: uh my senior advisor, David Pluff told the country we 496 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 3: were going to win all seven swing states, and here 497 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:59,400 Speaker 3: I've lost, you know, kind of you know what that happened. 498 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 3: I don't know if I'm allowed to curse on your podcast, 499 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 3: but she's kind of like, what that have happened? And 500 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 3: like she was gas lit too. She felt that way. 501 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 3: And the reason that I bring this up is not 502 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 3: so much about the gas lighting, but it's because of 503 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:15,439 Speaker 3: something you said. You started to talk about that a 504 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:19,360 Speaker 3: little bit. If you read this book, you will get 505 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:23,119 Speaker 3: to know these characters in ways that I think well 506 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:25,679 Speaker 3: on the Democratic side and on the Republican side, in 507 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:30,639 Speaker 3: ways that I think really reflect humanity, both strength and weakness, 508 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 3: and sometimes it's the same trait that's a strength and 509 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 3: a weakness in a way that you normally don't see 510 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 3: in politicians. And so what I would say for readers 511 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 3: is I think it's illuminating in that way, not just 512 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:47,240 Speaker 3: the fresh scoops of news and things you didn't hear 513 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 3: about during the election, But I really think there's an 514 00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:51,720 Speaker 3: interesting set of character studies here, and I thought it 515 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:55,240 Speaker 3: was fascinating for you to bring up having that feeling yourself, 516 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 3: you know, campaigning, because there are so many commonalities between 517 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:01,880 Speaker 3: all of us is human beings. And you know, I mean, 518 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:04,399 Speaker 3: I'm not in a party, but I watch a lot 519 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 3: of people in parties, and I sometimes think to myself, 520 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:07,959 Speaker 3: you know, the two of them are so much alike 521 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 3: that they hate each other. Not the two parties, but 522 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:12,440 Speaker 3: two people all look at and I'll be like, these 523 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 3: people hate each other, but really they have so many 524 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:19,200 Speaker 3: similar human experiences, and I think the book gets into 525 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:20,399 Speaker 3: that some of that character study. 526 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 2: Well, let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next 527 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 2: on the Tutor Dixon Podcast. 528 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,119 Speaker 1: When you take us into Nancy Pelosi's living room, you know, 529 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:36,200 Speaker 1: these are figures that I've watched for years and sometimes decades, 530 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:39,359 Speaker 1: And you know, I'm not on the same side of 531 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 1: the aisle as Nancy Pelosi, but I certainly can respect 532 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:45,920 Speaker 1: what she's done in life, and I can respect the power. 533 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:47,960 Speaker 2: That she has wielded and the way she has wielded it. 534 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 1: And sometimes I don't agree with a lot of times 535 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 1: I don't agree with her or what she does, but 536 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:56,040 Speaker 1: I respect the way she's been able to get things done. 537 00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 1: But then I'm in her living room, and I'm watching 538 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,440 Speaker 1: her in a Vonne room in my mind's eye through 539 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:06,480 Speaker 1: the book, in a vulnerable position, which we all have experienced, 540 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:09,840 Speaker 1: you know. But but this is something that she's vulnerable, 541 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:12,440 Speaker 1: and it affects all of our lives, you know. And 542 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:14,920 Speaker 1: and I see Susie Wiles in this book, and you talk, 543 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 1: you talk about her, and when she has that realization, 544 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 1: if they can't get him through law fair, then maybe 545 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 1: they kill him. And she's upset, and and and that 546 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:26,360 Speaker 1: is the. 547 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:27,159 Speaker 2: Susie that I know. 548 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 1: You know, the Susie that I know is she she 549 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,160 Speaker 1: will fight to the end for you. 550 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:36,440 Speaker 2: But you become like family. The people around her become 551 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:37,200 Speaker 2: like family. 552 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,159 Speaker 3: And there's a reason she has so many loyal and 553 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 3: competent people around her. And it's it's that, right, I mean, 554 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:48,639 Speaker 3: you know, she's she has this premonition, this scary premonition. 555 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 3: You know that they may they may try, you know 556 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:52,840 Speaker 3: that somebody may try to take a shot at Trump. 557 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:57,320 Speaker 3: And and she, you know, she's tearing up and here's somebody. 558 00:27:57,359 --> 00:27:58,879 Speaker 3: You know, you always see the pictures of her, you know, 559 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 3: the sunglasses, the you know, the the you know, I'm 560 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 3: sure it's a perfectly modestly and appropriately paid for a haircut, 561 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 3: but you know, perfectly perfectly bobbed hair and everything. And 562 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:12,920 Speaker 3: you know, she has like kind of an iconic look 563 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:15,320 Speaker 3: within Republican politics, and you never think of her as 564 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:19,439 Speaker 3: somebody who's you know, gonna gonna melt or be soft. 565 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,919 Speaker 3: And here she is thinking about the possibility that, you know, 566 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,119 Speaker 3: think about all the things Donald Trump has gone through, 567 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 3: and then thinking, you know, what else can happen to 568 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:30,400 Speaker 3: this man? And then it, you know, kind of strikes 569 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:32,639 Speaker 3: her and and she just you know, tears up and 570 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:36,240 Speaker 3: starts crying in a little kitchenette in Trump Tower with 571 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 3: just one other aid that's with her at the time. 572 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 3: And you know, she turned out to be right that 573 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 3: somebody took a shot at President Trump. I'm you know, 574 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 3: I think it can be easy to conflate political opposition 575 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 3: with lunatics, and I think in this this case, seems 576 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 3: to be a lunatic. But but but the idea that 577 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 3: Donald Trump had to go through more to win reelection 578 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 3: than any can it that we've you know, ever seen. 579 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 2: You know, that's that's true, and their team was so 580 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 2: tight through it. 581 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:09,760 Speaker 1: I think that the way you just described her is 582 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 1: I mean, that's the Susi that I know. 583 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 2: And I think you're right. When someone treats you, they 584 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 2: become so close. 585 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,720 Speaker 1: You know. She she doesn't work for him because it's 586 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 1: a good job. 587 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 2: She believes in him, She cares about him. She cares 588 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:25,960 Speaker 2: about everybody. 589 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 1: On that staff like you would not believe. And she 590 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 1: she bring like like I said. 591 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:32,479 Speaker 2: She brings people in like their family. 592 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 1: And you may not agree with the politics of it, 593 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,000 Speaker 1: just like I said about Nancy Pelosi, but you can 594 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,479 Speaker 1: respect the ability to get things done. 595 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:44,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, there's good people who wear red jerseys and good 596 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 3: people who wear blue jerseys, and people go about things 597 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 3: the right way. Look, you know you were talking about 598 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 3: Pelosi and then I go, I can't tell you how many 599 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,160 Speaker 3: Republicans tell me that they wish they had a Nancy 600 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 3: Pelosi on their side. 601 00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a. 602 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 3: Common sentiment, I think off and she knows what she 603 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:04,160 Speaker 3: wants to get accomplished, and you know, within her party 604 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,360 Speaker 3: she puts she takes a moral high ground so that 605 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,360 Speaker 3: you may disagree with her on the morality of an issue, 606 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,320 Speaker 3: but from within within the party structure, what are the 607 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 3: Democrats believe? She kind of takes the moral high ground. 608 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 3: She's like, we're going to try to get Democrats elected. 609 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 3: We're gonna try to get a Democratic president, democratic House, 610 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,360 Speaker 3: Democratic Senate, and here are the things we have to 611 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 3: do that do that, and I'm willing to sacrifice for it. 612 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,280 Speaker 3: I'm going to raise all the money. And in this case, 613 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:29,680 Speaker 3: she sacrificed her friendship with Joe Biden, her friendship of 614 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,719 Speaker 3: forty or fifty years, because she thought that instead of 615 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 3: the country being saved by Joe Biden, the country needed 616 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 3: to be saved from Joe Biden. And I don't think 617 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 3: that was easy for her. 618 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:41,720 Speaker 2: So let me ask you this. 619 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,520 Speaker 1: Though I know I've kept you a little long, but 620 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 1: let me ask you this before I let you got a. 621 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 3: Great time to door. 622 00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:48,840 Speaker 2: I am too better. 623 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 3: This is better than Rogan. 624 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 1: I could talk to you probably for hours, to be honest, 625 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,520 Speaker 1: but I do want to ask because I've been thinking 626 00:30:57,520 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 1: about the fact that there seems to be like this 627 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:03,280 Speaker 1: identity crisis in the Democrat Party and I feel like 628 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:06,280 Speaker 1: this is something that we went through after twenty twenty, 629 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 1: the Trump lost the election, we all went what is 630 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,600 Speaker 1: going to happen? And nobody understood, Like people are just 631 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:15,800 Speaker 1: kind of flailing, like who do we connect ourselves to? 632 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:16,440 Speaker 2: Right now? 633 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,080 Speaker 1: Donald Trump wasn't in the position that Joe Biden is. 634 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 1: You know, people were still super connected to him, but 635 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:28,920 Speaker 1: there wasn't anybody elected that was that Nancy Pelosi figure. 636 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,280 Speaker 1: But now I look at the Republicans, I'm like, you know, 637 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:34,720 Speaker 1: we have we have Donald Trump, we have jd Vance, 638 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 1: we have Mike Johnson. There are definite people in place 639 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,080 Speaker 1: that I think that the Republicans love, you know, and 640 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 1: they feel like those people will go to. 641 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 2: Bat for them. Nancy Pelosi never handed that down. Do 642 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 2: you think that was a mistake? 643 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,880 Speaker 3: So, I mean, in a technical sense, she stepped aside, 644 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:56,000 Speaker 3: but you're right, she didn't go away. She remained Speaker 645 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,120 Speaker 3: Amerita or whatever the hell that is. Pardon my friends. 646 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,360 Speaker 3: They gave her some new fancy title which is sort 647 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:06,520 Speaker 3: of meaningless, and she continues to be a big fundraiser, 648 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:08,959 Speaker 3: and she continues to be influential. And I think her 649 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:11,440 Speaker 3: hope was that Hakim Jefferies would you know, kind of 650 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,280 Speaker 3: take up the Mantle and you know, she could mentor 651 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 3: him a little bit, but he has not proven to. 652 00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 3: I mean, it's a heck of a vacuum when she 653 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 3: steps aside. Yeah, and he has not filled those shoes yet. 654 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:27,480 Speaker 3: And I'm not sure you know, the Manolo Blonocks fit him. 655 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:32,600 Speaker 3: But we'll find out. I guess we'll find out at 656 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,800 Speaker 3: some point. Yeah, she hasn't gone away. And then there 657 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,320 Speaker 3: is a huge vacuum for the Democrats, just like there 658 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,400 Speaker 3: was for the Republicans. The difference is Donald Trump was 659 00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:43,360 Speaker 3: like never went away, to your point, and he wanted 660 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,880 Speaker 3: to play in primaries, and like, I think it was 661 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:51,240 Speaker 3: pretty clear, you know, fairly early on that he was 662 00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 3: going to try to come back. And there's just nobody 663 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:56,800 Speaker 3: like that in the Democratic Party where you're like, can't 664 00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:58,960 Speaker 3: wait to find out what that person does, you know, 665 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 3: I mean there's people who are walking. 666 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:04,160 Speaker 1: I don't know, but we all thought it was Honestly, 667 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 1: I think a lot of people thought it was Michelle Obama. 668 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,040 Speaker 2: People are like, she's definitely making a play. 669 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,200 Speaker 1: For it, and then you know, a couple of months ago, 670 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:13,440 Speaker 1: she comes out on her podcast She's like, yeah, I'm done. 671 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 1: I want nothing to do with it so now politics, Yeah, 672 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:17,719 Speaker 1: she hates it. 673 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:20,920 Speaker 3: Martha's vineyard and like make movies and you know what, 674 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:23,120 Speaker 3: like God bless her because I would love to do that, 675 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:24,240 Speaker 3: you know. 676 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:26,360 Speaker 2: And she she didn't. 677 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,240 Speaker 1: I don't think that people realize that not everybody is 678 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:31,960 Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton. Not every spouse signs up for it and 679 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:33,680 Speaker 1: wants to then take over. 680 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 2: You know. I think there are political power couples. 681 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:38,880 Speaker 1: But I think she really enjoyed being first Lady and 682 00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:40,640 Speaker 1: she enjoys her time at home now. 683 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:43,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, And look, I think if it had been 684 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,400 Speaker 3: up to her, aside from you know, the great wealth 685 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:49,840 Speaker 3: that it has brought them. And I don't mean that 686 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:54,040 Speaker 3: in any sort of conspiratorial or corrupt way. I just mean, 687 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:55,760 Speaker 3: you know, she wrote a book that sold like eight 688 00:33:55,800 --> 00:34:00,040 Speaker 3: hundred billion copies, and you know, I mean, aside from that, 689 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,160 Speaker 3: I'm sure she would have been happy to never be 690 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 3: first Lady at all. I mean, she just doesn't. She 691 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,120 Speaker 3: doesn't want to have to be somebody other than who 692 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:13,040 Speaker 3: she is. And there are such constraints on the roles 693 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:17,200 Speaker 3: of politicians and particularly first ladies. There's such a set 694 00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:20,200 Speaker 3: of constraints like protocols and you know, what you're supposed 695 00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 3: to do, and we don't see it as much for 696 00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:23,640 Speaker 3: the first ladies, I guess, or we don't talk about 697 00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:26,600 Speaker 3: it as much, but huge constraints on them on the 698 00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:29,440 Speaker 3: way that they're supposed to behave and act and in 699 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:33,839 Speaker 3: public and in private and in throwing state dinners. And 700 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:37,560 Speaker 3: it's not for everybody. Some people just want to be themselves, right. 701 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:37,840 Speaker 2: I know. 702 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:41,200 Speaker 1: So we sit here and we watch and we are 703 00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:44,480 Speaker 1: I mean, I think even on the Republican side, it 704 00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:47,000 Speaker 1: is a different feel because it's only four years. 705 00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:49,920 Speaker 2: We know it's only four years, so we wonder. 706 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:52,880 Speaker 3: Sure there are some people. 707 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:56,759 Speaker 1: That are debating that, I admit, but I think the 708 00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:00,480 Speaker 1: general public is thinking, you know, what happens in for years? 709 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:04,000 Speaker 1: Does Kamala Harris come back? Is Corey Booker trying to 710 00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 1: make a comeback? Who is is it Gretchen Whitmer? 711 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:07,759 Speaker 2: Who is the. 712 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:11,840 Speaker 1: Darling that they're trying to bring into that? You know, 713 00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:18,040 Speaker 1: it's kind of like a gap between the octagenarians and the. 714 00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:19,760 Speaker 2: Thirty year olds. You know, it's like there's a gap 715 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:20,400 Speaker 2: in the party. 716 00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:25,640 Speaker 3: I'm Generation X and we will never have power. 717 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:28,040 Speaker 2: Why, yes, me too, I know. 718 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:29,880 Speaker 3: You're getting skipped. 719 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:33,239 Speaker 2: Yes, I know, Yeah, I'm mad about it too. 720 00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,920 Speaker 1: Why what happened to our was our generation just so 721 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:39,279 Speaker 1: mad about it? They're like, forget it, We're not doing it. 722 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:40,400 Speaker 1: I don't understand. 723 00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:43,400 Speaker 3: I think it's the lack of live birth. So I 724 00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:47,759 Speaker 3: think it's simply a population issue. The baby boomers. I mean, 725 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,520 Speaker 3: you think about it, like Bill Clinton was a baby boomer, 726 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:55,560 Speaker 3: George W. Bush is a baby boomer. Donald Trump is 727 00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:58,880 Speaker 3: a baby boomer. Joe Biden was older than the baby boomers, 728 00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:00,520 Speaker 3: but you know, in the same range. And uh and 729 00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:03,960 Speaker 3: Donald Trump again is the baby boomers are never going 730 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:04,640 Speaker 3: to give up power. 731 00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:07,719 Speaker 2: I know, I know, I'm still afraid it of my 732 00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:08,239 Speaker 2: own mother. 733 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:13,520 Speaker 1: You know. So they did it well, Like why is that? 734 00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:16,120 Speaker 1: Why can't we break through? 735 00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:16,879 Speaker 2: And I feel like. 736 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:20,279 Speaker 1: I maybe I'm just you know, selfish, but I think 737 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:22,520 Speaker 1: our generation is pretty down. 738 00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:23,560 Speaker 2: To earth coming. 739 00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:24,280 Speaker 3: I agree. 740 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:27,160 Speaker 2: I mean the baby boomers just their Facebook posts alone 741 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:27,799 Speaker 2: should scare you. 742 00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:32,799 Speaker 3: I mean, first of all, they're on Facebook, and then 743 00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:34,800 Speaker 3: you've got like after us, it's like the millennials, and 744 00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,520 Speaker 3: it's like, are you still sleeping on your parents' couch? 745 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:39,560 Speaker 2: Yes? Right, yes? 746 00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:41,960 Speaker 3: And you know my kids are a little younger than that. 747 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,760 Speaker 3: I have hope for their generation, but not not because 748 00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:46,640 Speaker 3: of any evidence. 749 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:47,760 Speaker 2: Same same. 750 00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:50,400 Speaker 1: I think it's just because there are kids and so 751 00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,360 Speaker 1: we are we have hope because we want them to 752 00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:54,440 Speaker 1: move out eventually. 753 00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:55,000 Speaker 2: That's why. 754 00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, just like please, I hope that someday. I mean, look, 755 00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:00,319 Speaker 3: I want mine to you know, grow up and make 756 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:02,440 Speaker 3: it that, you know, be eighteen year years old in 757 00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:03,719 Speaker 3: my house and then go to you know, go to 758 00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:07,000 Speaker 3: school and have wonderful lives. But at some point I 759 00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:08,560 Speaker 3: definitely want them to move out of the house. And 760 00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:11,520 Speaker 3: it would be you know, closer to that eighteen mark 761 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:13,120 Speaker 3: than say that like twenty eight or thirty. 762 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:15,239 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, well I will say that. 763 00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,200 Speaker 1: One of my daughters, she's in eighth grader this year, 764 00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:22,000 Speaker 1: and she had serious so we have like the same life. 765 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,680 Speaker 1: So she they did this thing where two kids were 766 00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:27,040 Speaker 1: candidates for president, and she came to the office and 767 00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:28,640 Speaker 1: she was like, so I have to do a campaign video, 768 00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:31,120 Speaker 1: and we're like this, You've. 769 00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:33,959 Speaker 2: Come to the right place, you know. So she does her. 770 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:36,480 Speaker 1: Campaign video and then the next day they do their 771 00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:39,279 Speaker 1: they do their videos, they do their little speech, and 772 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:40,920 Speaker 1: she comes back to the office and one of the 773 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:42,840 Speaker 1: guys in the office goes so what happened? And she's like, 774 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,080 Speaker 1: I won, And he said, well, how many votes did 775 00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:46,560 Speaker 1: you get? She goes, I got the votes and he 776 00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:48,200 Speaker 1: was like how about how many? She's like I got 777 00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:51,680 Speaker 1: all the votes. We're like, oh, trouble, this is trouble. 778 00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:54,080 Speaker 3: She raged it. 779 00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:59,480 Speaker 2: I'm like yeah, maybe yeah. I'm like, what did you do? 780 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,640 Speaker 2: There any illegal maneuverings? Did you bring candy to school? 781 00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:03,160 Speaker 2: I don't know. 782 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:05,160 Speaker 3: Did you pay a consultant to make her video? 783 00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:09,360 Speaker 2: She she is, I should make her pay me with 784 00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:10,440 Speaker 2: cleaning the house. 785 00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:13,319 Speaker 1: That's the deal. Like you we major video. Now you 786 00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:15,479 Speaker 1: do the work around the house. But somehow she gets 787 00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:16,160 Speaker 1: out of everything. 788 00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:17,680 Speaker 2: She is like she is. 789 00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:22,319 Speaker 1: She is genuinely charming. So I will give her that. 790 00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:23,920 Speaker 1: She could be a politician one day. 791 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:25,880 Speaker 3: If you can get your eighth grader to clean the house, 792 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:27,719 Speaker 3: you can come. Please come visit me and get my 793 00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:28,680 Speaker 3: eighth grader to clean that. 794 00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:31,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, when he is running for president, is it 795 00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:31,959 Speaker 2: a girl or boy? 796 00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:34,399 Speaker 3: I got an eighth grade boy and a sixth grade girl. 797 00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,520 Speaker 1: So when your son is running for class president, then 798 00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:39,880 Speaker 1: we will work out a deal. I'll help put the video, 799 00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:41,280 Speaker 1: We'll get him and cleaning that House. 800 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:42,640 Speaker 3: That sounds fantastic. 801 00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:45,640 Speaker 2: Hell well, it has been a joy to talk to you. 802 00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:47,560 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. 803 00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:48,399 Speaker 3: You too, take care. 804 00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:51,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, so Jonathan Allen, Wait, we gotta you gotta plug 805 00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:52,279 Speaker 1: the book. 806 00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:53,360 Speaker 2: Tell them where to get it? 807 00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:56,840 Speaker 3: Uh? Oh, you get the book. It's called Fight Inside 808 00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,239 Speaker 3: the Wildest Battle for the White House. And get it 809 00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:03,200 Speaker 3: anywhere you buy books Amazon, Bookshop dot Org, Barnes and Noble, 810 00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:08,719 Speaker 3: Target or my favorite place a bookstore because I put 811 00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:11,839 Speaker 3: out a book during the pandemic and I never got 812 00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:14,160 Speaker 3: to see the book on a shelf and a store 813 00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:16,680 Speaker 3: and it was like the saddest thing that is sad 814 00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:19,439 Speaker 3: you never get to see it. So please buy Fight, 815 00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:23,920 Speaker 3: Please read Fight. And I'm easy to reach on Twitter. 816 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:27,040 Speaker 3: So I'm at John Allen DC. Tell me what you 817 00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:29,319 Speaker 3: think of it, whether you like it, whether you hate it, 818 00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:30,400 Speaker 3: or anywhere in between. 819 00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:33,240 Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I think people will love it, honestly, because 820 00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:35,920 Speaker 1: it's you just get sucked into it. I think the 821 00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:37,880 Speaker 1: best part about it. And I know I'm letting you go, 822 00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:39,640 Speaker 1: but I just want to say the best part about 823 00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:43,760 Speaker 1: the book is you lived it in front of the screen. 824 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:47,040 Speaker 1: But this takes you into people's homes. It's like, it's 825 00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:47,920 Speaker 1: like having it. 826 00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:49,719 Speaker 2: You're a fly on the wall. I don't know how 827 00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:50,239 Speaker 2: you did it. 828 00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:52,160 Speaker 1: I don't know how you got all the information, and 829 00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:54,600 Speaker 1: I would never ask you to out your sources. But 830 00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:58,520 Speaker 1: it is incredible, and you really it is. It's living history. 831 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:00,360 Speaker 1: It's like what we're living through right now. So you 832 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:02,799 Speaker 1: get to actually, like I said, we expected this book 833 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:03,920 Speaker 1: in twenty years and it's. 834 00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:06,080 Speaker 2: Here right now, So go get it. Jonathan Allen, thank 835 00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:08,680 Speaker 2: you so much. Thank you too, and thank you all. 836 00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:11,440 Speaker 1: For listening to the Tutor Dixon Podcast for this episode 837 00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:13,759 Speaker 1: and others. Go to Tutor Dixon podcast dot com, the 838 00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:17,279 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts 839 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:18,640 Speaker 1: and join us next time. 840 00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:20,520 Speaker 2: Have a blessed day.