1
00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:04,120
Speaker 1: Hello, dear listeners, and welcome to cool people who did

2
00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:06,800
Speaker 1: cool stuff today. I'll be your host to this dangerous

3
00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:09,960
Speaker 1: world of crime and sin, this world of adultery, of

4
00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:13,760
Speaker 1: violence and strange beauty. With me on this journey into

5
00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:15,760
Speaker 1: the criminal underworld. Okay, I don't think I can keep

6
00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:18,000
Speaker 1: this up. Our guest today is prop prop How are

7
00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:21,640
Speaker 1: you doing? I was preparing my my voice for this?

8
00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:24,560
Speaker 1: Oh all right, all right, we'll keep going. This is

9
00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:30,200
Speaker 1: top of the morning, fair maiden. How's that is great?

10
00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:35,680
Speaker 1: We both definitely deserve to be an entertainment. Yes, give

11
00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:39,760
Speaker 1: them the old what fall ah sword canes for everyone

12
00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:44,400
Speaker 1: is happening. I'm not sure that voice is our producer

13
00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:46,640
Speaker 1: who tries to keep us on track. Hi, Sophie, how

14
00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:54,920
Speaker 1: are you doing? Smart? Smart smart Sophie. No world, No, okay, world? Yes, ah,

15
00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:58,600
Speaker 1: in a world, so is the producer in a world

16
00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:04,319
Speaker 1: we're too Sophie. Can never exist? Yeah, yeah, they can't,

17
00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:07,640
Speaker 1: because apparently you get you know, made, made, made roasted

18
00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:12,880
Speaker 1: in your sound grade science class. Sucked up. I bet

19
00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:15,920
Speaker 1: you are doing better than I did. In fact, looked

20
00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:18,440
Speaker 1: up the other person and that they're doing just fine.

21
00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:22,360
Speaker 1: So that is what's upsetting not that I wish the middle,

22
00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:25,080
Speaker 1: but I was like, you know what, that doesn't sound

23
00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:29,880
Speaker 1: like that bad of a career. Shout out. I looked

24
00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:33,640
Speaker 1: at my fourth grade bully and he's a Christian real

25
00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:42,080
Speaker 1: estate agent in Oklahoma. You know what you won that? Yeah?

26
00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:45,240
Speaker 1: Well this actually we'll talk about what to do with

27
00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:47,800
Speaker 1: real estate agents in a short moment on this episode.

28
00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:53,240
Speaker 1: So this week we're talking about crime. Sophie, prop have

29
00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:55,880
Speaker 1: you ever committed a crime? I haven't. Have you all

30
00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:59,560
Speaker 1: ever committed no crimes, no crimes, not never. What are

31
00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:03,800
Speaker 1: you talking to about? Yeah? No, no, No one commits crimes.

32
00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:05,480
Speaker 1: And we don't live in a world in which everyone

33
00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:09,600
Speaker 1: commits crimes and only certain people are convicted of that

34
00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:14,320
Speaker 1: that that wouldn't happen, speed limits or something that everyone obeys. Anyway,

35
00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:16,600
Speaker 1: today we are talking about Sophie Lyons, the queen of

36
00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:20,440
Speaker 1: the underworld in nineteenth century America. Probably the least role

37
00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:22,880
Speaker 1: model of anyone we've had on the show, but she

38
00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:24,960
Speaker 1: makes it to be older than most of our subjects.

39
00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:29,760
Speaker 1: So actually there's something to this. Where we last left her,

40
00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:32,840
Speaker 1: she's just gotten out of prison, but her husband was

41
00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:34,720
Speaker 1: still in prison. At this point. I think she didn't

42
00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:37,320
Speaker 1: really mind. All of her kids are off at boarding school,

43
00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:39,480
Speaker 1: which also I think she didn't mind. And she just

44
00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:43,600
Speaker 1: moved to Detroit, and she is she's not done with

45
00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:46,120
Speaker 1: walking into fancy department stores and walking out with whatever

46
00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:48,440
Speaker 1: she wants. She'll keep her she'll keep that up for

47
00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:52,080
Speaker 1: decades longer. But she sets her sights higher at this

48
00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:55,600
Speaker 1: point too. And you know, what's a good fun time problem,

49
00:02:56,600 --> 00:03:03,520
Speaker 1: what's a good fun time blackmail? Oh kay? She sets

50
00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:08,040
Speaker 1: up this really yeah. Yeah, so I have here pictures

51
00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:11,760
Speaker 1: Now I can't make that joke, okay, so um, so

52
00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:14,120
Speaker 1: she sets up this really solid con I'll be at

53
00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:16,720
Speaker 1: one of questionable ethics. I guess most couples are questionable,

54
00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:21,360
Speaker 1: aren't they all? Yeah? Yeah. She sets herself up like

55
00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:24,160
Speaker 1: she's a fancy actress in Cincinnati for a few weeks,

56
00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:26,359
Speaker 1: and she pays for a hotel room in cash, plus

57
00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:29,359
Speaker 1: a bunch of fancy dresses in cash. She calls fancy

58
00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:32,680
Speaker 1: rich asshole men and she lures them over the hotel room.

59
00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:35,760
Speaker 1: It's possible she does this under some pretense like calling

60
00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:39,360
Speaker 1: a real estate agent and saying, Hey, I've got some

61
00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:41,240
Speaker 1: deeds for you to come up to my hotel room

62
00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:43,760
Speaker 1: to look at at night. It's also possible she just

63
00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:46,160
Speaker 1: was like, hey, you want to fuck I was like yeah,

64
00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:52,720
Speaker 1: come like yeah deeds yeah. Yeah. And we've got we've

65
00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:55,600
Speaker 1: got two accounts of everything. We've got Sophie's autobiography, which

66
00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,400
Speaker 1: is a lie, and then we have historians who at

67
00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:01,280
Speaker 1: least seemed to trust everything that the police and her

68
00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:05,240
Speaker 1: victims say, which are also slightly less lie. Yeah exactly.

69
00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:08,240
Speaker 1: Like it's like like lie is Sophie, and then like

70
00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:11,760
Speaker 1: the victims is like sixt lie because the victims they

71
00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:13,440
Speaker 1: say things in court like I thought I was just

72
00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:15,760
Speaker 1: gonna come over late at night, this rich actress is

73
00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:21,600
Speaker 1: a hotel to look at deeds in her pants? Yeah,

74
00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:24,160
Speaker 1: and yeah, because she wasn't. I don't think she was

75
00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:27,839
Speaker 1: subtle in her seduction method. So she gets, she gets

76
00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:29,520
Speaker 1: she'll get some guy up to the hotel room, gets

77
00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:31,680
Speaker 1: him naked, and then throws all of his clothes out

78
00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:35,080
Speaker 1: the window, which it turns out to be a bad

79
00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:38,719
Speaker 1: move later in court. But and then it's like, look,

80
00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:41,279
Speaker 1: give me a thousand dollars or I'm telling everyone and

81
00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:44,400
Speaker 1: either telling everyone you tried to assault me or that

82
00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:46,640
Speaker 1: you tried to fuck me, and you're like married and shipped, right,

83
00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:49,040
Speaker 1: and it depends on the mark basically, which would hurt

84
00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:53,120
Speaker 1: his reputation more. The con because all good old timey

85
00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:56,600
Speaker 1: cons have names, this con is called the badger game,

86
00:04:57,440 --> 00:04:59,960
Speaker 1: which apparently comes from an old timey word badger, which

87
00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:04,120
Speaker 1: is for a sex worker who robs her clients. Wow. Normally,

88
00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:07,360
Speaker 1: the con is you set it up with some guy

89
00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:09,680
Speaker 1: where it looks like you're about to funk, like you're

90
00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:12,080
Speaker 1: you know, you start getting ready to fux some dude,

91
00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:14,719
Speaker 1: and then your fake husband or boyfriend or possibly your

92
00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:17,800
Speaker 1: real husband or boyfriend whatever storms in there, suddenly back

93
00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:19,800
Speaker 1: from the office or something out of town trip, and

94
00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:25,000
Speaker 1: they're like, what, how dare you give me some money? Right? Yeah,

95
00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:28,839
Speaker 1: but she is a self made woman and she doesn't

96
00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:32,000
Speaker 1: need a male accomplice. She can do regular blackmail all

97
00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:35,680
Speaker 1: on her own. I will tell you this. I have

98
00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:43,200
Speaker 1: a teenage child who I speak very we are. Our

99
00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:46,839
Speaker 1: agreement is I will always keep it a whole santry.

100
00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:49,400
Speaker 1: I'm gonna keep it a honey with you, right, and

101
00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:54,520
Speaker 1: we're definitely at the like. Look, I'm gonna tell you

102
00:05:54,640 --> 00:06:00,120
Speaker 1: right now, no one makes good decisions when thinking with

103
00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:05,159
Speaker 1: their genitals. You're just not A hundred percent of the time,

104
00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:08,520
Speaker 1: you are going to make the wrong decision. So like

105
00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:13,920
Speaker 1: I'm I'm telling you, baby, decide who you are right

106
00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:17,760
Speaker 1: now while all the blood flow is going to your

107
00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:23,479
Speaker 1: brain and not your genitals, because I swear to let

108
00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:30,920
Speaker 1: Daddy tell you the truth from personal experience. What yes exactly.

109
00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:34,000
Speaker 1: I was like, I know, I know how weird this sounds,

110
00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:37,440
Speaker 1: but I will be not be doing my duty as

111
00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:41,680
Speaker 1: as your parents without keeping it real with you. You're

112
00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:45,800
Speaker 1: gonna make bad decisions. You will in the heat of

113
00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:49,680
Speaker 1: the moment. A hundred percent of the time you are

114
00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:52,040
Speaker 1: going to make the wrong decision. And I just feel like,

115
00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:55,720
Speaker 1: here's another example. It's just like, look these you you

116
00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:57,840
Speaker 1: thinking with your pants, fam, and you're gonna make a

117
00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:02,120
Speaker 1: bad decision. You now your pants is out the window

118
00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:05,120
Speaker 1: and it's gonna call shoot thousands of dollars or you're

119
00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:07,840
Speaker 1: just gonna have to eat it and be like yeah now, yeah, now,

120
00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:10,920
Speaker 1: she got me yeah, which is what almost everyone does.

121
00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:15,440
Speaker 1: Everyone is like, well she got me, yeah, right, And

122
00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:19,800
Speaker 1: because she runs this con for decades, uh, the men

123
00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:22,160
Speaker 1: are generally too embarrassed to go to the police. She

124
00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:24,760
Speaker 1: carefully picks men with good names and something to lose.

125
00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:29,000
Speaker 1: But one real estate asshole. I mean, I don't know whatever.

126
00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:30,960
Speaker 1: I just call him an asshole because you fucking put

127
00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:34,240
Speaker 1: most real estate people that in my head are like

128
00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:36,680
Speaker 1: the gentrifiers and ship whatever. Anyway, Yeah, maybe he's a

129
00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:39,760
Speaker 1: perfectly reasonable fellow. I don't know. He goes to the cops,

130
00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:42,160
Speaker 1: claims that she drew a gun on him and forced

131
00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:44,840
Speaker 1: him to strip, which she might have done. I don't.

132
00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:48,720
Speaker 1: I don't. Yeah, I don't trust anyone who is present

133
00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:50,480
Speaker 1: to tell the truth about this, but I don't know.

134
00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:54,400
Speaker 1: In court later, one guy who works at the nearby

135
00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:57,119
Speaker 1: store is like, yeah, every night I saw pants flying

136
00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:03,960
Speaker 1: out the window. He would like that all all the time.

137
00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:06,680
Speaker 1: I don't know what was going on, Yeah, Baly And

138
00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:08,320
Speaker 1: people are like, why didn't you say anything? Because he

139
00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:10,040
Speaker 1: would take the coats and stuff and bring them to

140
00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:12,080
Speaker 1: the hotel front desk, and he was like, I didn't

141
00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:14,280
Speaker 1: say anything because I didn't. It was not my business.

142
00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:17,400
Speaker 1: I don't want to know my business. If you thought, look, man,

143
00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:19,640
Speaker 1: if you look the stuff just going out the window,

144
00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:22,560
Speaker 1: I figured belonged to somebody. I just brought it to

145
00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:25,800
Speaker 1: the people. But look, and none of them. What why

146
00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:29,560
Speaker 1: it went out is none of my business. I am

147
00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:33,760
Speaker 1: in the story. I'm the clerk. That's me. Yeah, this

148
00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:36,440
Speaker 1: is belong to somebody. I asked no questions. I just

149
00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:40,560
Speaker 1: figured somebody gonna need their clothes. Yeah, maybe check the pockets. Yeah,

150
00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:42,600
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, Like, I don't know. There

151
00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:44,520
Speaker 1: was no idea and it won no wallet's in it.

152
00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:47,480
Speaker 1: It was just about, you know, and just be making

153
00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:51,320
Speaker 1: my making my money. They just fly out the way. Listen,

154
00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:54,440
Speaker 1: the money fall out the sky. What are you gonna take?

155
00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:58,480
Speaker 1: One of them would not take it that I even asked.

156
00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:01,600
Speaker 1: I said, hey, is this anybody's pay aunt? Did nobody answer?

157
00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:05,400
Speaker 1: So I just I don't know. Yeah, yeah, I wonder

158
00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:07,640
Speaker 1: if you just started selling the coats, you know, like

159
00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:12,880
Speaker 1: immediately the dude walks in, I'm selling it, next door, Doc,

160
00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:15,880
Speaker 1: that's my coat. Like, I don't know what you're talking about.

161
00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:18,440
Speaker 1: Found on the street. What do you talk about? Yeah,

162
00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:22,280
Speaker 1: take that up with someone else. Not my problem. So

163
00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:25,160
Speaker 1: so she's on trial, right, and so she does what

164
00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:27,880
Speaker 1: she always does. They give her bail and they said

165
00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:29,880
Speaker 1: that pretty high, you know, five a lot of money

166
00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:32,360
Speaker 1: back then, right, So she pays the ball, and she

167
00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:35,360
Speaker 1: skips town because she did under a different name, and

168
00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:37,920
Speaker 1: she makes a pretty major profit even with the five

169
00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:41,240
Speaker 1: dollar bail because that's half a night's work, goes onto

170
00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:44,800
Speaker 1: the next town. And at one point she updates her method.

171
00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:47,000
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's after the pants out the window,

172
00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:49,360
Speaker 1: think I'm up in court and she locks all the

173
00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:51,360
Speaker 1: clothes in a trunk and says, give me money or

174
00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:54,199
Speaker 1: I'm gonna keep all your clothes. Yeah, it has to

175
00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:59,120
Speaker 1: be because of the court. Yeah. Every time she's called yeah, yeah, yeah.

176
00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:01,760
Speaker 1: Every time she's caught, she pays post bail and fox

177
00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:05,160
Speaker 1: off different name every time. And one time she got

178
00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:07,480
Speaker 1: arrested and extradite under her real name. People are like

179
00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:09,280
Speaker 1: starting to kind of figure out who this lady is.

180
00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:13,000
Speaker 1: But she sticks to her story so well that it

181
00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:18,040
Speaker 1: ends in a hung jury. Wow. And also she hires

182
00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:20,720
Speaker 1: the best fucking lawyers in the country. You got all

183
00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:23,120
Speaker 1: kinds of money, and her mental health is starting to

184
00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:25,480
Speaker 1: come apart at this point. It's also possible that her

185
00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:28,160
Speaker 1: mental health was never very good. Everyone loves doing that,

186
00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:30,600
Speaker 1: Like was this person bipolar or did they have a

187
00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:32,480
Speaker 1: personality disorder or whatever the funk? I don't know she

188
00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:34,520
Speaker 1: also had the fucking craziest life. Like I don't know

189
00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:37,760
Speaker 1: what the fuck, but she um, she starts shoplifting more

190
00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:40,720
Speaker 1: and more brazenly in both I think Detroit and Boston.

191
00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:43,720
Speaker 1: The cops who arrest her are like, I don't get it.

192
00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:46,040
Speaker 1: She did not disguise the fact that she was stealing,

193
00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:48,599
Speaker 1: like right in front of me, Like she would just

194
00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:50,599
Speaker 1: like walk in. She's so used to getting away with

195
00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:52,600
Speaker 1: ship that she's like walking. Yeah. So I was gonna say,

196
00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:54,520
Speaker 1: sometimes you get so used to getting away with stuff,

197
00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:59,400
Speaker 1: you just get crazy. It just works. Yeah. In jail,

198
00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:01,640
Speaker 1: at one of these points, she tries to hang herself,

199
00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:03,840
Speaker 1: but it's also possible that she didn't really try and

200
00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:06,240
Speaker 1: hang herself. It was all just part of her plan

201
00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:08,520
Speaker 1: to like feign desperation and plead for the mercy of

202
00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:10,920
Speaker 1: the court. This is this is around the time that

203
00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:13,640
Speaker 1: she's like, I'm addicted to morphine and the cops are like,

204
00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:16,000
Speaker 1: now you're not. You're in the cell all night and

205
00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:18,040
Speaker 1: you had no signs of withdraw And she's like, I'm

206
00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:20,600
Speaker 1: just a poor single mother addicted to morphine. Please have

207
00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:26,360
Speaker 1: mercy on me. The court they're like, there's there's literally

208
00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:30,360
Speaker 1: no evidence in your body or yeah you don't, you've

209
00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:35,880
Speaker 1: you've never taken morphine, like if we can see it. Yeah, yeah.

210
00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:41,160
Speaker 1: And at this point, Sophie's past starts catching up with her. Specifically,

211
00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:42,960
Speaker 1: first one of her kids that she had shipped off

212
00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:45,439
Speaker 1: to boarding school. He runs away from boarding school and

213
00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:47,480
Speaker 1: he comes home and he's like getting involved in all

214
00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:51,160
Speaker 1: this crime, and then she tries to get him arrested

215
00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:55,840
Speaker 1: and sent to the house of refuge. And I can't

216
00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:59,000
Speaker 1: figure out her motive here. The best I can understand

217
00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:01,520
Speaker 1: it was this like desperate it. I'm convinced that the

218
00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:05,320
Speaker 1: juvenile facility might set you straight. I'm not sure. But

219
00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:08,480
Speaker 1: she takes her own kid, being like he's a terrible criminal,

220
00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:10,199
Speaker 1: and the kid in court it's like, no, my mom's

221
00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,760
Speaker 1: a fucking criminal. This is a soaky lions, she's a criminal.

222
00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:19,040
Speaker 1: Like it was not a good move. No. And then

223
00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:24,400
Speaker 1: her husband Ned gets out of jail. Oh, he pretty

224
00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:26,760
Speaker 1: immediately gets into a gunfight with the guy she was

225
00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:32,640
Speaker 1: probably fucking whose name is Brock. Who Yeah, no, yeah,

226
00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:36,800
Speaker 1: you're not, you're not smashing nobody named Brock. And also

227
00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:40,080
Speaker 1: if you are, like if your wife is smashing someone

228
00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:42,640
Speaker 1: named Brock. It's hard to funk with someone named Brock.

229
00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:46,559
Speaker 1: It's a little bit sketchy. Ned starts the gunfight. Brock

230
00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:51,880
Speaker 1: won the gunfight. Ned shows up, pulls a gun, pulls

231
00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:54,880
Speaker 1: the trigger, but in the struggle the hammer gets caught

232
00:12:54,880 --> 00:13:00,679
Speaker 1: in the clothing and doesn't connect. No Box shoots Ned

233
00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:04,760
Speaker 1: twice in the chest. Ned survives. Sophie. At this point,

234
00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:07,440
Speaker 1: she's like, I'm done with you. I'm fucking done. I'm leaving.

235
00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:10,000
Speaker 1: She doesn't leave him for Brock. She just sits out

236
00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:11,920
Speaker 1: on her own again, because that's the way she likes it.

237
00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:16,400
Speaker 1: Shortly after Sophie left him, Ned gets another two bullets,

238
00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:18,400
Speaker 1: this time from a security guard as he's trying to

239
00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:20,360
Speaker 1: blow up a bank vault, and he gets one in

240
00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:22,520
Speaker 1: the gut and one in the neck and he still

241
00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:26,640
Speaker 1: fucking survives. Dude, what's wrong? Okay? Okay? I was been

242
00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:28,600
Speaker 1: to ask, like, I don't understand what it is about

243
00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:33,240
Speaker 1: this time where you could just survive gunshots four fucking times, yeah,

244
00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:36,920
Speaker 1: fucking three in the Torso go ahead. I do. Got

245
00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:39,640
Speaker 1: a homie who took nine, you know, out in the

246
00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:43,640
Speaker 1: city and like and I'm like, dog, you took nine.

247
00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:49,640
Speaker 1: He's like, yeah, I'll know what to tell you. I'm like, okay, anyway,

248
00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:51,360
Speaker 1: well no, I mean, like, but what do you do

249
00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:53,440
Speaker 1: right after that? Like I feel I feel like I

250
00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:56,360
Speaker 1: a shot none time. Nine times I'm probably done. Like

251
00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:58,800
Speaker 1: I'm like, I mean, like one, I'm probably dead or something.

252
00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:02,319
Speaker 1: But yeah, I don't want to live through that. Yeah,

253
00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:05,640
Speaker 1: and if I do, Sophie, Yeah, I love Sophie's giggle

254
00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:09,080
Speaker 1: because she could picture this person, right, I like, I

255
00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:16,640
Speaker 1: know this person just just street dude. Like yeah, I'm

256
00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:20,080
Speaker 1: like I went to high school with him, exactly right.

257
00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:25,760
Speaker 1: I'm glad he survived. Yeah, so did the guy from

258
00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:35,760
Speaker 1: my high school exactly so. Ned fucking gets out. He

259
00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:38,560
Speaker 1: pleads guilty on some other for the bank robbery. He

260
00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:41,880
Speaker 1: gets three years, and he fucking serves it. And Brock

261
00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:45,960
Speaker 1: for his part, smartest man in this entire episode. Brock

262
00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:48,880
Speaker 1: is like, I had a good run of this crime ship,

263
00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:53,840
Speaker 1: but you know what this is gonna get me killed? Yeah, out,

264
00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:58,840
Speaker 1: and he becomes a horse trainer in Vermont. Yes, oh

265
00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:02,360
Speaker 1: my god, I love it, hey Brock so much. Yeah. Yeah,

266
00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:04,400
Speaker 1: Brock got in and Brock did it right, He got in,

267
00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:07,200
Speaker 1: it got out. Yeah, he lived the high life. He

268
00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:09,560
Speaker 1: robbed some banks, he got in the gunfight. He won

269
00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:13,080
Speaker 1: the gunfight, and then he escaped a murder charge because

270
00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:16,240
Speaker 1: the guy survived. So you escaped a murder charge. Yeah.

271
00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:18,800
Speaker 1: Now he's like, man, it's too close. Yeah, I'm gonna

272
00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:23,480
Speaker 1: mess with these horse horses. Don't shoot back. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah.

273
00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:28,040
Speaker 1: Sophie goes back to her old games, running podcasts. No different, Sophie,

274
00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:31,640
Speaker 1: Um oh yeah. Honestly, it seems like she's getting even

275
00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:34,000
Speaker 1: more unhinged. At some point during all of this, she

276
00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:36,440
Speaker 1: shoots at a bank manager because he stops paying her

277
00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:39,560
Speaker 1: hush money, Like someone that she's blackmailed, like just stops

278
00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:41,360
Speaker 1: paying her. So she like shows up at his office

279
00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:45,280
Speaker 1: and like, and she doesn't shoot people. She shoots near people,

280
00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:46,960
Speaker 1: and that's like it seems to be her whole thing,

281
00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:48,760
Speaker 1: because she shoots in a lot of people, but she

282
00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:51,280
Speaker 1: always misses, and I think it's a it's a like

283
00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:54,359
Speaker 1: fuck you thing, now I'm gonna kill you thing. Yeah.

284
00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:57,240
Speaker 1: Another guy who stops paying her hush money, she smashes

285
00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:59,720
Speaker 1: up his furniture and all this fancy art with an

286
00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:04,320
Speaker 1: axe in front of him. And another guy threatens her

287
00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:07,920
Speaker 1: with a gun for honestly understandable reasons. She gets it

288
00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:10,200
Speaker 1: away from him and shoots next to his head. She

289
00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:12,120
Speaker 1: takes his gun away, and she's like, puts it next

290
00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:15,240
Speaker 1: to his head and fucking pulls the trigger. And every

291
00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:18,080
Speaker 1: single time she gets put on trial, she gets found

292
00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:22,320
Speaker 1: not guilty. She spends multiple fortunes on her lawyers throughout

293
00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:25,880
Speaker 1: her life. Just she makes a fortune stealing a bunch

294
00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:27,960
Speaker 1: of ships, she turns around and gives it to her lawyer,

295
00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:34,040
Speaker 1: mm hmm. And at this point she's she's mostly working

296
00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:36,440
Speaker 1: out of Detroit. She goes and she shoplifts because it's fun,

297
00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:40,000
Speaker 1: and she picks pockets and she blackmails people. But I

298
00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:41,440
Speaker 1: don't know exactly what she was up to, but I

299
00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:44,240
Speaker 1: think she's the next morm. She's the She's the note

300
00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:48,120
Speaker 1: in a nationwide web of crime stolen goods, connecting people,

301
00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:52,880
Speaker 1: probably fencing um and this is what she's doing. She

302
00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:55,800
Speaker 1: like buys a house in Detroit and starts doing stationary

303
00:16:55,920 --> 00:17:00,240
Speaker 1: crime mostly and she makes the mistake of ren teen

304
00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:02,120
Speaker 1: out a room in her house for cheap as hell

305
00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:04,240
Speaker 1: to a down and out woman who needs the favor.

306
00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:07,960
Speaker 1: That woman, her name is Teresa Lewis. She's like, I

307
00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:11,960
Speaker 1: think I'll become a snitch. No, So she starts collecting

308
00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:16,840
Speaker 1: evidence basically to sell to the cops because everyone's corrupt. Um.

309
00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:20,600
Speaker 1: The cop who she's selling the evidence to also takes

310
00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:23,040
Speaker 1: bribes regularly from all the other criminals in town, you know.

311
00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:28,520
Speaker 1: And so Sophie is like, she's she's smart. She figures

312
00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:30,760
Speaker 1: out this lady's a snitch. She's like, I gotta deal

313
00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:34,640
Speaker 1: with that. So she kicks Teresa out of the house.

314
00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:37,920
Speaker 1: Then she plants all these like like fur and diamonds

315
00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:40,960
Speaker 1: and shipped into Teresa's trunk at the new house, I think,

316
00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:42,800
Speaker 1: she like bribes the landlord and be like, hey, let

317
00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:45,320
Speaker 1: me in, And then she goes to the cop and says,

318
00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:47,600
Speaker 1: my ex tenants stole a ton of jewelry from me.

319
00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:50,680
Speaker 1: So the cops raid the fucking Teresa's house. They find

320
00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:53,520
Speaker 1: all the stolen jewelry that, of course, was that Sophie

321
00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:57,120
Speaker 1: had stolen. Yeah, of course, brilliant. And the snitch goes

322
00:17:57,119 --> 00:17:59,679
Speaker 1: on trial and the chief of police is like kind

323
00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:04,359
Speaker 1: of try in a defend the snitch Teresa, but in

324
00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:06,760
Speaker 1: the process he gets all of his history of like

325
00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:09,520
Speaker 1: taking bribes, and ship gets dragged out and put into

326
00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:13,119
Speaker 1: the light, and so the chief of police has to resign.

327
00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:20,560
Speaker 1: Oh my god. See, snitching is never worth it, and

328
00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:23,480
Speaker 1: it it was this crazy gamble on Sophie's part, right

329
00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:26,920
Speaker 1: because the defensive case defenses cases. No, Sophie Lions is

330
00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:29,919
Speaker 1: a professional criminal, which is a there is a strong

331
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:31,919
Speaker 1: case to be made that this professional criminal is a

332
00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:36,280
Speaker 1: professional criminal. Yes, And so a lot of evidence gets

333
00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:39,000
Speaker 1: dragged out in front of court, all of the evidence

334
00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:42,280
Speaker 1: that Teresa had been collecting this whole time. But in

335
00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:45,280
Speaker 1: the end, Teresa has found innocent. The cop goes down.

336
00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:49,040
Speaker 1: Sophie now has an enemy for life, but Sophie isn't

337
00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:51,480
Speaker 1: put up on charges, so it's kind of a draw.

338
00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:57,920
Speaker 1: It's also good to note that like, uh, police very

339
00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:03,200
Speaker 1: rarely solved crimes the snitches like somebody tails totally. You

340
00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:05,960
Speaker 1: don't say it like that stutic she works anyway, go on.

341
00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:08,399
Speaker 1: So there's one more crime character that I want to

342
00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:11,919
Speaker 1: throw in, just because he's an interesting character and he was.

343
00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:14,920
Speaker 1: Sophie's alibi was like, no, no, I wasn't robbing stuff.

344
00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:18,200
Speaker 1: I was hanging out with my friend, my friend John Larney,

345
00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:21,320
Speaker 1: who was better known by his crime name Molly Matches.

346
00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:28,520
Speaker 1: Why because hard. When he was a kid at a pickpocket,

347
00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:30,880
Speaker 1: he dressed up as a girl who was selling match

348
00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:35,479
Speaker 1: sticks on the street in order matches and hard. Yeah,

349
00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:39,919
Speaker 1: have you ever heard of match stick girls? Yes? All right,

350
00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:42,720
Speaker 1: well I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do the listeners

351
00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:47,480
Speaker 1: this this small tangent like everything, and then I just

352
00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:49,560
Speaker 1: basically I get really excited about including match stick girls

353
00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:52,719
Speaker 1: and also this weird cross dresser. So yes, like everything

354
00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:54,920
Speaker 1: in the late nineteenth century, if poor people had a job,

355
00:19:54,960 --> 00:20:00,200
Speaker 1: that job fucking sucked. Yes, match sticks no exception. First

356
00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:03,960
Speaker 1: than most things. Boys made the matches by dipping sticks

357
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:07,080
Speaker 1: into sulfur and then some other ship like phosphorus, and

358
00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:09,880
Speaker 1: they it was white phosphorus at first, which makes strike

359
00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:13,040
Speaker 1: anywhere matches. Red phosphorus gets later discovered, and say you

360
00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:16,639
Speaker 1: get strike on box matches. Matches get called lucifers at

361
00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:20,040
Speaker 1: the time because of the sulfur in them. A skilled

362
00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:22,200
Speaker 1: worker who gets paid like fucking nothing, right when I

363
00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,320
Speaker 1: say skilled worker makes a million matches an hour. One

364
00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:28,080
Speaker 1: of these kids, and I mean kids in a literal sense,

365
00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:30,679
Speaker 1: about a third of them were kids. Most of them

366
00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:34,000
Speaker 1: were fourteen to eighteen or the kids were mostly fourteen

367
00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:37,920
Speaker 1: d eighteen. There's a couple who are under fourteen. And

368
00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:39,680
Speaker 1: then the women and girls took over the rest the

369
00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:42,840
Speaker 1: rest of the process making match sticks and passing them.

370
00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:46,080
Speaker 1: And but before we tell you more about match sticks,

371
00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:49,920
Speaker 1: unless our next ad is match sticks white phosphorus match sticks.

372
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:52,080
Speaker 1: They may give fosse draw a necrosis to the person

373
00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:54,280
Speaker 1: who made them. But you can strike them anywhere, just

374
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:59,399
Speaker 1: like your grandfather used to. That's my ad for matches.

375
00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:04,760
Speaker 1: Strike you anywhere, prop do you have any We try to.

376
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:07,280
Speaker 1: We try to have positive things on this show, you

377
00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,879
Speaker 1: know as our sponsors. Um, is there anything on abashedly

378
00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:13,720
Speaker 1: positive you would like to Sophie to get as a

379
00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:18,760
Speaker 1: sponsor for this podcast. Concept of potatoes being a perennial favorite. Uh,

380
00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:21,240
Speaker 1: I can't remember yours for the last time? What was

381
00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:24,040
Speaker 1: your last day? And I don't remember? Yeah, I don't know.

382
00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:29,880
Speaker 1: Like really good DJs, you know it's always a good time. Yeah,

383
00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:33,560
Speaker 1: a really good sponsored by really good DJ. Yeah, no

384
00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:37,120
Speaker 1: medio for DJs do not apply. Sophie is a good

385
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:40,680
Speaker 1: judge DJ read the room, DJs, you know what I'm saying.

386
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:42,960
Speaker 1: Some DJs don't be reading the rule. You know, he's

387
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:47,399
Speaker 1: a good dj our editor. Ian. You can hire Ian.

388
00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:50,560
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's true. God, dj it is true,

389
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:54,120
Speaker 1: is turned into a real lad. Ian and Daniel are

390
00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:58,440
Speaker 1: DJ duo called gladiator. You should hire them and give

391
00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:03,200
Speaker 1: them lots of money mhm. And you can also participate

392
00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:07,080
Speaker 1: in the buying and selling of other goods. Since there's

393
00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:13,360
Speaker 1: some ads coming up. And here's where we'll break to them.

394
00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:15,520
Speaker 1: And we are back, and we're talking about the people

395
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:18,120
Speaker 1: who make matches for almost no reason except the fact

396
00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:21,560
Speaker 1: that I think is interesting because it's fucked up. Anyone

397
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,320
Speaker 1: working with white phosphors could get something called Fossey jaw.

398
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:30,359
Speaker 1: And Fossey jaw it starts as a toothache, then you

399
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:33,639
Speaker 1: get like zombie gums with sores. Then parts of your

400
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:37,400
Speaker 1: jawbones start separating from the rest, and eventually your entire

401
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:41,480
Speaker 1: lower jaw in the crosis necrotics away and the bones

402
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,960
Speaker 1: that are dying glow green in the dark. Oh my god.

403
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:48,200
Speaker 1: It kills the people who get it, and you basically

404
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:49,960
Speaker 1: can't eat once you get it, because your jaw is

405
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,199
Speaker 1: to be cut away. And this is what lots of

406
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:55,680
Speaker 1: people had to do for almost no fucking money, because

407
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:59,640
Speaker 1: it was the nineteenth century. That is terrifying. Yeah. Yeah,

408
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 1: it's like I just I just knew match dick girls

409
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,240
Speaker 1: because those are the ones to soeld you matches. Yeah yeah,

410
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:06,119
Speaker 1: well that's that's all I knew. I know about all

411
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,800
Speaker 1: this other stuff. Well that's the other part of it, right, um.

412
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:12,520
Speaker 1: But yeah, eventually red phosphorus, even though it's been around

413
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:14,960
Speaker 1: for decades, basically people were like, yeah, but doesn't sell

414
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:18,000
Speaker 1: as well, so fuck it. It took until nine before,

415
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,159
Speaker 1: like eighty years seventy years after people discovered Fossey jaw

416
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,240
Speaker 1: and people were dying of it before the US passed

417
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:27,399
Speaker 1: any kind of workplace safety restrictions on white phosphorus. But yeah,

418
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:29,959
Speaker 1: the other match stick girls are the young girls who

419
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 1: sell match sticks on the street. Basically, they're just beggars

420
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 1: hanging out on the street, kind of like newsies in

421
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,880
Speaker 1: some ways. That is the kind of match stick girl

422
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:40,280
Speaker 1: that Molly match Stick disguised himself when he was a kid,

423
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,239
Speaker 1: and he kept the name Molly match Sticks as an

424
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 1: adult with a beard and ship. So dope. Yeah, because

425
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:49,720
Speaker 1: if you meet in the nineteen twenties, you meet a

426
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:54,960
Speaker 1: dude name Molly match Stick, Like all of your like gender,

427
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:58,800
Speaker 1: like you know, slang sissy terms is like, yeah, no,

428
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:00,840
Speaker 1: I'm still calling Molly at dick and I dare you

429
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 1: to make fun of me exactly like you like like

430
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,399
Speaker 1: this is an ass kicker. Yeah, So like if you're

431
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 1: gonna keep the name as k yeah exactly yah and uh.

432
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:16,000
Speaker 1: Later when he's in prison, he he finds a hustle

433
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 1: in the prison, he says, selling knickknacks made by the

434
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,000
Speaker 1: prisoners to the visitors of the prison. Like he sets

435
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:23,639
Speaker 1: up a booth basically near the entrance of the prison

436
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:27,879
Speaker 1: mer table at the yea yea, and he's like paying

437
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,879
Speaker 1: all the people who make canes and toothpicks the things

438
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 1: he sells. After this trial, I don't even remember where

439
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:41,159
Speaker 1: in the eighteen eighties I think at this point, Um,

440
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:42,680
Speaker 1: you think I would have put more notes in here.

441
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 1: As the time goes on, Sophie just keeps at it

442
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,240
Speaker 1: and she's just constantly on fucking trial. That is my

443
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:51,919
Speaker 1: main takeaway from this story. One save money for your lawyer,

444
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 1: and to life of crime is fucking stressful. She gets

445
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 1: put on trial once three times for stealing the same

446
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:01,920
Speaker 1: watch that she stole from a rich person at a

447
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:05,960
Speaker 1: County fair Like, she steals one watch, she gets fucking

448
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 1: convicted s seven months, had her conviction overturned by her lawyers,

449
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 1: gets tried again, convicted again, goes to prison, It's overturned again.

450
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:18,160
Speaker 1: She gets retried a third time and found not guilty.

451
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 1: Yeah not I saying, worth the headache, I know, And

452
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 1: then immediately gets arrested for stealing other watches. And when

453
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,240
Speaker 1: when she gets out on bail that time, she finds

454
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 1: the snitch Teresa Lewis in the street, attacks her and

455
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:32,639
Speaker 1: goes to jail for assault. I was like, yeah, wolves

456
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 1: her ass. Now yeah, all of this fucking bankrupts her

457
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 1: and she gets all of her kids get kicked out

458
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,720
Speaker 1: of Catholic school and sent to an orphanage. Later, Sophie

459
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 1: goes around and kidnaps all the kids back from their

460
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 1: foster homes. But at this point she has fucking lost

461
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 1: her way if she ever had a reasonable way. When

462
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 1: she's when her fifteen year old daughters at home, she uh,

463
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,640
Speaker 1: she kicks her daughter out at gunpoint for not sweeping

464
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 1: the floor is correctly what? Yeah, this is where you

465
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 1: start getting the like, you know, interesting person, deeply flawed.

466
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 1: Two more of her kids die um One is a

467
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 1: six year old who dies of scarlet fever, and then

468
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 1: her oldest child, George, was the only one who followed

469
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,119
Speaker 1: her in a life of crime. And he'd been in

470
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 1: and out of facilities for leading a gang, and he

471
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 1: dies a typhoid fever for like four years into a

472
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 1: five years stint and while he was in prison, because

473
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:31,639
Speaker 1: again prison was even more fucked up. Well not then,

474
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:33,440
Speaker 1: now prison still really fucked up. I mean it's even

475
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,320
Speaker 1: more fun with than like crime life. He had been

476
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 1: forced to carry sixty pound ladles of molten steel and

477
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 1: he's like a little guy what and if he spills

478
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:44,360
Speaker 1: any of the molten ladle on his foot, he gets

479
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 1: sent to solitary confinement for like fucking up the merchandise. Also,

480
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 1: he just spilled molten yeah, which is also which is

481
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 1: already any thing. Yeah yeah yeah, having not done that,

482
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,399
Speaker 1: I am proud of. I intend to continue my current

483
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:04,640
Speaker 1: streak almost forty years of not spilling molten. I don't

484
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 1: even like it when an oil pop when I'm frying fries. Yeah. Yeah,

485
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 1: So he dies. She has like in the end, she

486
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,400
Speaker 1: has either seven somewhere between seven and ten kids. There's

487
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:18,920
Speaker 1: no real good records about this and probably a considerable

488
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 1: amount of STDs. Yeah that is actually almost certainly true. Yeah, okay. Anyway,

489
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,399
Speaker 1: and when her kid dies, she can't afford his burial,

490
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,360
Speaker 1: and an old crime pal of her friend pays for it.

491
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 1: She's not having a fucking good time. It's six I

492
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 1: did write down the year in the script I'm Smart.

493
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 1: And she gets caught shoplifting a bolt of silk. She

494
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 1: just keeps getting fucking caught. At this point, she gets

495
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 1: thrown in a city jail in Manhattan that still has

496
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:46,640
Speaker 1: the charming name of the Tombs. There have been four

497
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:48,880
Speaker 1: jails in New York City with the name of the Tombs,

498
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 1: each inheriting the name from the previous one, and Charles

499
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 1: Dicken wrote about the Tombs such indecent and disgusting dudgeons

500
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 1: as these cells would bring disgrace upon the most despotic

501
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 1: empire in the world, which one could argue is the

502
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:04,359
Speaker 1: US anyway, is the most despotive empire in the world,

503
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:08,879
Speaker 1: so arguably, And at this point crime gets harder and

504
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 1: harder in America, at least for career criminals. Her photo

505
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,360
Speaker 1: gets taken and it's hung up in the city's rogues gallery,

506
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,160
Speaker 1: which is basically like a most wanted kind of file,

507
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 1: a series of photos of all the most notorious crooks

508
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 1: in the city. And for the stealing the silk, she

509
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 1: gets six months. She once again never doesn't serve it

510
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 1: because she knows people, who knows people, And then she

511
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:31,920
Speaker 1: gets arrested again, and I just fucking at this point,

512
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 1: I just like lose count. There's just yeah, she's just

513
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 1: I think she's been arrested probably a thousand times in

514
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 1: her life or something. Cops in the US get they're

515
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 1: now able to do fingerprinting. There's like photographs. She ends

516
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 1: up in this encyclopedia of crooks that all the cops

517
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 1: start passing around and it's printed small, so all the

518
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 1: cops around America can have this like fucking book in

519
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 1: their pocket of all the like two or so like

520
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 1: most notorious criminals. Yeah, and so she can't just keep

521
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 1: skipping bail and using fake names, and life's getting harder.

522
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 1: For the one upside, she saves up enough money to

523
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 1: finally get divorced, and she's the Queen of the Underworld.

524
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 1: This is her name at this point. So she hooks

525
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 1: up with the King of the bank robbers, an Irish

526
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 1: immigrant named Big Jim Brady. Let's go. I love these

527
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 1: fucking names and this one. Yeah. Yeah, and he's a

528
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 1: big guy. That's im. That's what I'm saying, Irish dog.

529
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 1: I missed the boat man. Yeah, he's the one who

530
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 1: paid for her kids burial. And he had also been

531
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 1: part of that Oceans for plot where they cut a

532
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 1: hole in the stae I was gonna say. I was like,

533
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 1: wait a minute, like, what's up with her and bank

534
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,239
Speaker 1: robber guys? You know? Yeah? Yeah, no, she she has

535
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 1: a type. Yeah. Actually, that's probably why she disched her

536
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 1: first husband right away. He was just a pickpocket. All

537
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 1: the three of her other husbands are bank robbers. Bank robbers. Yeah,

538
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 1: big scores, not little scores. Yeah, exactly. One of Big

539
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 1: Jim's best heist before he starts soaking up with Sophie,

540
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 1: or before he marry Sophie, they probably hooked up before,

541
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 1: is that he dresses up like a cop. He goes

542
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 1: up to a bank and he says, we've heard there's

543
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 1: going to be a bank robbery, so me and some

544
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 1: other officers will come by tonight after you close and

545
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 1: help you good find security guards catch those stastardly thieves.

546
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 1: Can you imagine. Yeah, well, by golly willakers man, we

547
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 1: better make sure well, thank you so much, these fine

548
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 1: people that serve you know, we backed the blue Thank

549
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 1: you very much, sir. Yeah, do you want do you

550
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 1: need the keys? You want some coffee? I love it.

551
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 1: So he shows up after after close with two more

552
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 1: fake cops. Of course, they jump the guards, they hog

553
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 1: tie them, they break up in the safe, they steal

554
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:47,719
Speaker 1: all the ship and could you imagine the guards watching

555
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 1: this happen and the guards being like what the guys

556
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 1: guys what hey? Wait? Time out? Time out? Yeah, exactly,

557
00:30:57,920 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 1: And then they all turn to the one who agreed

558
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 1: to this in and they're like, John, I can't believe

559
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 1: you fucking did that. Yeah. Later, he doesn't get caught

560
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 1: for that one. He gets caught stealing from some jewelry.

561
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 1: He gets sent to prison, so he digs his way

562
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 1: out of prison. Him another this this show is an

563
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 1: unofficial sponsor. The show is tunneling your way out of jail,

564
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 1: because everyone fucking does it in the nineteenth century. He

565
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 1: he had in some other convicts. They dig through four

566
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 1: ft of brick into an empty water wheel pit on

567
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 1: the outside of the wall and get out and are free.

568
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 1: He gets arrested again a couple of years later, and

569
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 1: he breaks out again, no record of how this time.

570
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 1: So he gets to get arrested again, and this time

571
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 1: they shoot him while they're arresting him in the leg

572
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 1: and sent into prison, whereupon he um breaks out of

573
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 1: prison again. Then he robs a bank by kidnapping the

574
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 1: cashier's family, taking them all hostage. Because he's not actually

575
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 1: a good person, He gets caught and he gets sent

576
00:31:55,280 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 1: to prison. He gets fifty fucking lashes. What and you

577
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 1: can we can beat people? Yeah, him and all of

578
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 1: the people they catch fifty lashes. So he waits until

579
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 1: he's physically recovered from the flogging, and he breaks out

580
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 1: of prison again. And then he gets caught shoplifting again,

581
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 1: He shoots the cop who fucking caught him, gets caught anyway,

582
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 1: gets sent to prison, and this time the fifth time

583
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 1: is the charm. He spends eleven years in jail. Eleven

584
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 1: years after that eleven year stint, he gets out and

585
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 1: starts hooking up with Sophie and they go off to

586
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 1: Europe on this romantic trip to do crime together because

587
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 1: they can no longer really effectively do crime. In the

588
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 1: US because of how fucking famous they all are. Yeah,

589
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 1: they get caught. It's very romantic. They get caught picking

590
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 1: pockets in Paris. They rob a bank in London the

591
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 1: way they robbed the bank as Sophie dresses up like

592
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 1: a fancy lady who is too infirmed to leave her carriage,

593
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 1: so asks the cashier to come out and meet with

594
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 1: her directly in her carriage and Walakashier comes out. Big

595
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 1: Jim runs in and just abs everything you can. It's

596
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 1: like the ship that's like in the cash drawer, Darling,

597
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 1: I am I am much too famished. Can you please

598
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 1: come to my careac Yes, I love it. They didn't

599
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 1: last too long as a couple, but they did get

600
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 1: illegally married because her divorce hadn't been finalized. She gets

601
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 1: gets pregnant, They break up before the kid is born,

602
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 1: and back in the US, she now does this thing

603
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 1: that I wish I could fucking find more information about.

604
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 1: The Chinese Exclusion Act of eighteen eighty two is passed

605
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 1: right and basically Chinese people are no longer allowed to

606
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 1: immigrate to the US, So Sophie starts working with a

607
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 1: Chinese gang in Chicago to help smuggle people across the border,

608
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 1: and it gets presented in a bunch of different ways,

609
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 1: like maybe it was humanitarian, maybe it was all for

610
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:50,680
Speaker 1: the money. The books I read never linger on the

611
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 1: parts that I care about, Like I want to know

612
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 1: more about the fucking interaction between the Chinese gangs in

613
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 1: Chicago and then the like immigrant white criminal class that

614
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 1: Sophie is part of. Yeah, but she does that for

615
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 1: a while. Unfortunately, she's like good at it at first,

616
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 1: but she's just too famous and so she keeps getting recognized, um,

617
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:11,240
Speaker 1: which sucks up the people that she's trying to help smuggle,

618
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 1: you know, So she starts scamming on a grand scale.

619
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 1: She sets up a marriage bureau. If you send five

620
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:21,840
Speaker 1: dollars to join the bureau, you'll get linked with a

621
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 1: rich widow or an heiress or some ship like that.

622
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 1: And it's a it's basically fake ache okay Cupid. She

623
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 1: hires young women. It's just catfishing. She hires young women

624
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 1: to do the cat fishing. They like sit around a

625
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 1: typewriters in like a fucking room full of typewriters writing

626
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 1: back long letters to the people who send five dollars.

627
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 1: It makes a fucking fortune. She just keeps making and

628
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 1: losing fortunes. They yeah, like street laure is like that's

629
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:49,320
Speaker 1: part of the game, like, and that's part of the

630
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 1: the adrenaline rus She's like making it, losing it and

631
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 1: making it back, you know, yeah, totally. And she basically

632
00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 1: at this point she's like, I think I'm gonna go straight.

633
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:04,320
Speaker 1: I got to get out of this. Eventually, she's nationally famous.

634
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:07,720
Speaker 1: Her trials always have huge audiences, and newspapers are always

635
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:10,360
Speaker 1: writing sensation with pieces about her, and she starts really

636
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 1: liking the fame, right, and fame and crime are complicated,

637
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:17,479
Speaker 1: of course, so she starts writing letters to newspapers about

638
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 1: how she's reformed and how other criminals can reform. And

639
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 1: she gets really big into prison reform, and she starts

640
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 1: like going on speaking tours talking about how bad this is,

641
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:29,319
Speaker 1: the conditions in prison are. And this is actually the

642
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 1: stuff that I like, I love all of her, like

643
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 1: crazy bank shit, like her robbery and stuff, but the

644
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 1: stuff that she does her like activist work after she retires,

645
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:42,360
Speaker 1: is really interesting to me. And her main contribution to

646
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:46,320
Speaker 1: society at the time talking about crime is at the time,

647
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 1: the main thing that people said was that crime is hereditary, right,

648
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 1: bad blood, which of course never gets used racistly. Uh,

649
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 1: And her whole thing is she's like, no, it is.

650
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 1: It has learned it is not hereditary. And she very

651
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 1: conscious he used. She uses her kids as an example.

652
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:07,240
Speaker 1: She's like, I have I raised a ton of kids,

653
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 1: only one of them ended up a crook um And

654
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 1: and that's her main thing. But she's so fucking famous

655
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 1: as a criminal that now that she's gone straight, she

656
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 1: still gets arrested everywhere she goes because hey, don't we

657
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 1: owe Hey we was arrested two years ago. Well is that?

658
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 1: But it's also like she walks into a gross you know,

659
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:30,799
Speaker 1: a department store, and people are like, oh, you're here

660
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:34,359
Speaker 1: to steal, and they arrest her. And like and if

661
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:35,880
Speaker 1: she goes like at one point, she like pops her

662
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 1: head into a church and they arrest her because there's

663
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:40,280
Speaker 1: rich people in the church. You know, she just can't

664
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 1: be trusted near rich people. Ship they'll just sucking arrest her.

665
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:45,359
Speaker 1: If she goes to another town and gets a hotel room,

666
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:47,440
Speaker 1: they assume for a good reason that she might be

667
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 1: using like we have this on a pretty solid evidence, Yeah,

668
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 1: probably going to do a crime. Yeah, And even at

669
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 1: this point, she's trying not to do crimes. Uh huh,

670
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:04,280
Speaker 1: and she's she's a new boyfriend. And Billie Burke, um god,

671
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 1: which is he's in his fucking fifties, and like, yeah,

672
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 1: don't don't name yourself. Believe if you want, unless you

673
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 1: want to sound like a career criminal. Now I'm just

674
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:15,319
Speaker 1: being an asshole. Somewhere there's a fifth year old Billie.

675
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:18,320
Speaker 1: He's very nice. Yeah, you're supposed to go by William

676
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:22,360
Speaker 1: By now yeah. Yeah, at least bill and you know

677
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:24,880
Speaker 1: who else will send you a bill. These products and

678
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 1: services good and we are back. And so Billy Burke

679
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 1: he gets the same treatment. When he's trying to go straight.

680
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 1: He shows up in Detroit, the cops arrest him, and

681
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 1: they parade him in front of every bank clerk in town,

682
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:44,239
Speaker 1: Like every bank clerk has to come by and see

683
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 1: his face so they know what he looks like before

684
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:50,320
Speaker 1: they let him go. When this dude walk in, yeah,

685
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:56,360
Speaker 1: it's all site, okay, don't believe in Yeah yeah yeah.

686
00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 1: The cops tell him we will arrest you every time

687
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:04,440
Speaker 1: you're see on the streets of Detroit, and Billy's lawyers

688
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:08,240
Speaker 1: like that's unconstitutional and the cops. You will be shocked

689
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 1: to know this prop. The cops don't care. They're like, what,

690
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:18,239
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, what, Yeah, it's it's what now? Yeah? Yeah,

691
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't understand what you're saying. Anyway, listen,

692
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 1: if I see you was up, just that that's the answer. Yeah. Yeah.

693
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 1: So it's real hard to do regular crime. So they

694
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 1: get into another kind of crime, the legal type of crime,

695
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:35,839
Speaker 1: real estate. They decided to become landlords. Here we go.

696
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 1: But they but they need capital in order to buy

697
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:42,239
Speaker 1: these buildings because although they've raised lots of money various points,

698
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 1: they keep blowing it. So one last heist, boys, they go,

699
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 1: oh yeah, the one last high. Well, in this case,

700
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:56,120
Speaker 1: it's a spree. They spent a year and a half

701
00:38:56,160 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 1: in Europe bumming around just on a fucking spree. They

702
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:03,080
Speaker 1: robbed banks and people. They're having a grand old time,

703
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:05,719
Speaker 1: very romantic. They come up with. They come home with

704
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 1: a hundred thousand dollars in loot, seven trunks full of

705
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:13,120
Speaker 1: stolen ship, which is several million dollars in modern money.

706
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:15,959
Speaker 1: So they buy some houses and they start robbing people

707
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:18,879
Speaker 1: the legal way through becoming landlords. And then they pop

708
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 1: back over to Europe for some crime time when they

709
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 1: get bored, especially Billy, and the cops now are trying

710
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 1: really hard to drive Billy out of Detroit, so they

711
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:30,840
Speaker 1: order him to leave. They're just like, you actually just

712
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:32,880
Speaker 1: have to leave, and he's like, that's not legal. So

713
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,320
Speaker 1: the cops tried to frame him up on prostitution charges

714
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:38,279
Speaker 1: and essentially like trafficking charges and everything I've read, this

715
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:41,239
Speaker 1: is the only research, the only time that sex work

716
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 1: is mentioned in any of the stuff I've read. Um,

717
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 1: I don't know if they were involved in in any

718
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:50,239
Speaker 1: kind of like sex work stuff, but this was not

719
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 1: true based on any every every account I can see,

720
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 1: And so the frame doesn't stick. But he can't quit

721
00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 1: bank robbing. And she's now she's reformed, but husband isn't.

722
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 1: So he gets himself three and a half years in

723
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 1: prison and Philly and then he gets out, they get married,

724
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:07,759
Speaker 1: and then he gets arrested in Sweden and as a

725
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:10,759
Speaker 1: landlord in Detroit. Now she's really starting to piss people

726
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 1: off because it was okay that a notorious criminals in

727
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 1: the neighborhood. People didn't love it, but it was okay,

728
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 1: but you know, it would be a step too far

729
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 1: for the good white citizens of Detroit prop what would

730
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 1: be a step too far. She leased one of her

731
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 1: buildings to a black woman to use as a homeless

732
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:28,239
Speaker 1: shelter for black women and children. There it is you

733
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 1: now listen. And so her neighbors fucking take her to

734
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:36,719
Speaker 1: court and their argument is that this will ruin our

735
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:39,719
Speaker 1: property values if there's black people around. Ah, here we

736
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 1: go once again. She springs for a good lawyer, and

737
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 1: the McCoy Home for Colored Children opens in nine and

738
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:52,520
Speaker 1: apparently she delighted and pissing off her neighbors. Like after

739
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:55,880
Speaker 1: this wins, she basically goes over and it's like, ha ha,

740
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 1: fuck you, there's gonna be black folks around, and you

741
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:00,839
Speaker 1: just have to deal with it. Um Like just like

742
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:04,439
Speaker 1: it's like pointing fingers at them and laughing, Yeah, hey,

743
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:09,240
Speaker 1: look guys, it's black people. Yeah. Yeah, very here because

744
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:13,759
Speaker 1: of me. Yeah, I could have just robbed you exactly.

745
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 1: You know, like it's so funny that because like she's

746
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 1: the criminal, her husband is the criminal. You know, she

747
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:26,400
Speaker 1: runs criminals, criminals. Yeah, yeah, we're actual criminals. I have

748
00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 1: probably smashed your husband. Yeah, I'm pretty sure I've already

749
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:34,240
Speaker 1: smashed your husband. Yeah, I can't remember. I'll do it again,

750
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:38,440
Speaker 1: maybe for the first time. I don't remember. Yeah, he

751
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 1: coming over to night, Yeah yeah. Point is you mad

752
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:46,399
Speaker 1: because it is? That's funny to me. Yeah, And I'm

753
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:49,040
Speaker 1: annoyed because I like, again, it's the stuff that I like,

754
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:51,840
Speaker 1: wish I could find more about in all of this history.

755
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:54,399
Speaker 1: And that's like there's a little moments where she does

756
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 1: ship like that. Um, and to be fair, I mean

757
00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 1: she's profiting off of leasing them property, right of course,

758
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:03,759
Speaker 1: but she out of business. Yeah, but she absolutely like

759
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 1: it comes up several times later that she's like specifically like, no,

760
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:09,239
Speaker 1: we are not going to fucking discriminate against people based

761
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 1: on the color of their skin or whatever, like what

762
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 1: the fund is wrong with you people? In nineteen thirteen,

763
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:17,320
Speaker 1: she writes a memoir. It has the title The Amazing

764
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 1: Adventures of Sophie Lyons, Queen of Burglars or Why Crime

765
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:27,240
Speaker 1: does Not Pay, And this gets shorthanded too. The hardcover

766
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:29,360
Speaker 1: book comes out with Why Crime does Not Pay for

767
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 1: the hardcover and they do this because it's the only

768
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:35,440
Speaker 1: way they can sell it. Right of course, people are like, oh,

769
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:38,360
Speaker 1: so every single chapter of this book is like another

770
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:40,360
Speaker 1: one of her excapades. But then it'll be like, and

771
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:41,840
Speaker 1: then we robbed someone and got away with like a

772
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:44,640
Speaker 1: million dollars, but one of the people who is running

773
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 1: away like fell and broke his leg. So that's why

774
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:50,080
Speaker 1: crime doesn't pay, you know. And it's like we broke

775
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:52,320
Speaker 1: out of sing Sing prison, but it was really cold.

776
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:57,279
Speaker 1: Crime doesn't pay. It rules. It's also all lies. I

777
00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:00,360
Speaker 1: mean it's it's like true or something. Then you know,

778
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 1: she inserts herself into some crimes she wasn't there for.

779
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 1: She she like basically plagiarizes the book of Criminals that

780
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 1: she's in. She like plagiarizes her own entry, which is cool.

781
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 1: That is a cool crime, plagiarizing your own fucking criminal record. Wow, Okay,

782
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 1: that's all right. I love it. Yeah, And she didn't

783
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 1: snitch in her book. She wrote the book and left

784
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:25,920
Speaker 1: three of her husband's out of it. The only husband

785
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:28,799
Speaker 1: she included was the one she hated. It a real

786
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 1: one to the end, just a real one to the end.

787
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 1: It is like, well, I mean not, I mean, you

788
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:37,440
Speaker 1: gotta have a code, Yeah, you gotta live by a code.

789
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 1: Like the code is you don't snitch. I'm just don't snitch. Yeah,

790
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:43,000
Speaker 1: And and and to be clear, she writes this book

791
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 1: crime doesn't pay, but crime absolutely paid for her, at

792
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:48,400
Speaker 1: least very well. She had been a dirt poor immigrant

793
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:50,239
Speaker 1: and now she was this upper class woman. She was

794
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:52,839
Speaker 1: not a respectable upper class woman. Everyone fucking hated her.

795
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:57,879
Speaker 1: But money sometimes will smooth over such difficulties. What jay

796
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:00,960
Speaker 1: Z say, ain't no such thing as an ugly billionaire.

797
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:10,879
Speaker 1: I'm cute. I'm cute, Yeah, exactly. And she basically now

798
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 1: spends all of her time trying to help people get

799
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 1: out of lives of crime. But I cannot tell if

800
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 1: she's like being like, because crime is bad and no

801
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 1: one should do crime, or if she's like, hey, people

802
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:25,080
Speaker 1: need an exit plan, right, and she's fighting for reform.

803
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:27,319
Speaker 1: She's helping criminals get out of the game. She does

804
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:30,120
Speaker 1: not want her kids to follow her. She starts visiting

805
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:32,479
Speaker 1: prisons and talking about how a life of crime wasn't

806
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:36,240
Speaker 1: necessarily the best and she but she gives inmates spending money.

807
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:39,080
Speaker 1: She basically like, as inmates are leaving, she just sits

808
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:41,319
Speaker 1: there and gives you money as you're leaving, so that

809
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 1: you can do something with your life. And after her

810
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 1: final husband died of a cerebral hemorrhage. She steps up

811
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:49,880
Speaker 1: her charity work and she starts funding holiday dinners for

812
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:52,520
Speaker 1: inmates in prisons. And she basically just like goes around

813
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:54,879
Speaker 1: to prisons and tries to pick me make people's lives better.

814
00:44:56,520 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 1: She tried to donate a vacant lot to reform society

815
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:03,719
Speaker 1: called the Pathfinders Club of America to build a home

816
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:07,440
Speaker 1: for the quote reclamation of children with criminal tendencies. I

817
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:09,799
Speaker 1: think like basically an actual or a nicer version of

818
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:12,759
Speaker 1: this house or reform ideas, like a yeah, the one

819
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:16,160
Speaker 1: that's actually trying to reform. Yeah. Yeah. They turn her

820
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 1: down because it turns out there's such a thing as

821
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:22,040
Speaker 1: an ugly billionaire. They're afraid that her reputation will impact

822
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:28,880
Speaker 1: their own. It's because she's a millionaire, you know, millionaires

823
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:33,560
Speaker 1: hit or miss. Yeah, the bag is not big enough. Yeah,

824
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:35,239
Speaker 1: you can you can kind of be a ugo as

825
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 1: a millionaire. Yeah, because she's only she's only donating the land.

826
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:41,320
Speaker 1: She can't actually afford to like build the whole building

827
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:48,080
Speaker 1: and run it right the peasants. Yeah, And she uses

828
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:50,640
Speaker 1: any she gets publicity all the time. She fucking loves

829
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:53,040
Speaker 1: the spotlight, and she uses to push a few things,

830
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:56,759
Speaker 1: one the idea that crime is not hereditary, to that

831
00:45:56,840 --> 00:46:00,840
Speaker 1: prisons are fucking awful, and three that crook should probably

832
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 1: be less violent and only target the rich, or, to

833
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 1: quote her directly, such stuff as robbing poor men in

834
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:08,880
Speaker 1: the streets and stripping homes of their meager possessions was

835
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:10,640
Speaker 1: too low and mean for the kind of criminals I

836
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:14,000
Speaker 1: knew and work with. And it's interesting, right because we

837
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:17,239
Speaker 1: were talking earlier about how like there's this idea of like, well,

838
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:19,319
Speaker 1: crime was classy in my day, but now it's other

839
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 1: people doing it with like scare quotes around other right,

840
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:26,800
Speaker 1: But she's talking about well, basically like the Italian mafia.

841
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:30,319
Speaker 1: She's talking about like prohibition era. She's talking about white

842
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:32,680
Speaker 1: on white crime. You know what I'm saying. I don't

843
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:38,439
Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, no, but that's actually that's an interesting point,

844
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:41,680
Speaker 1: especially like her being like at that point, like she's

845
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:44,520
Speaker 1: an o G. She's like, you know what I'm saying, Like, no, man,

846
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:47,399
Speaker 1: I'm from the old school, Like we only if we're

847
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 1: gonna crime, we're gonna crime those that we being worth it.

848
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:52,640
Speaker 1: We're not gonna like you know, smash our own kind

849
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:55,279
Speaker 1: like Mannate just as poor as us. That's interesting that

850
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 1: like her having that sort of O G status. Yeah, yeah,

851
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:01,320
Speaker 1: I know, you're right, Like it is a very different

852
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:03,040
Speaker 1: thing for someone with that much craid to be saying

853
00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:05,719
Speaker 1: this ship versus just like some random person who's like

854
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:09,640
Speaker 1: idolizing whatever fucking bullshit. Yeah, She's like, nah, homie, I

855
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:12,160
Speaker 1: got I got the stripes. You know what I'm saying, Like, Yeah,

856
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:14,440
Speaker 1: I'm certified out here, and what I'm telling you is

857
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 1: what y'are doing is trash. That's great. Yeah, exactly. Around

858
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 1: this time, this is now the late nineteen tens, she's

859
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:24,440
Speaker 1: getting really old. She's in her seventies. I think at

860
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:28,279
Speaker 1: this point she gets conned herself. Someone claims to be

861
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:30,640
Speaker 1: a Hungarian nobleman who wants to make a movie about

862
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:34,320
Speaker 1: her life. If only she would front six hundred dollars,

863
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:36,400
Speaker 1: she would get a share of the profits and a

864
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:40,400
Speaker 1: role in the film. But she's pretty vain, so she

865
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 1: falls for it. Found the Achilles heel, and it's a

866
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:46,720
Speaker 1: lie and he gets away with it. Eventually, she actually

867
00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:49,960
Speaker 1: gets robbed twice in her home, and another one of

868
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:54,280
Speaker 1: her sons died. He was cremated, and then in her seventies,

869
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:56,839
Speaker 1: she takes to walking around the house holding the urn

870
00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:59,759
Speaker 1: with her son's ashes, and she like sleeps with them

871
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 1: old in her arms. So she's kind of having a

872
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:08,479
Speaker 1: rough and yeah, her friends finally convinced her to barry

873
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:12,239
Speaker 1: the ashes of her son. And then, seventies six years old,

874
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:14,799
Speaker 1: having outlived most of her kids, probably all four of

875
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 1: her husbands, she dies of natural causes and a cerebral

876
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 1: hemorrhage like her last husband had died of, and only

877
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 1: one of her seven or ten children and one of

878
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:27,120
Speaker 1: her grandchildren came to her funeral. Most of the well

879
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:30,080
Speaker 1: wishers were fellow reform activists and then a ton of

880
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:32,520
Speaker 1: like people who wanted to come to be like, Oh,

881
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 1: what's up, what's going on? This famous person died? You know. Yeah.

882
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 1: Inmates at a nearby jail had held a memorial service, though,

883
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:41,040
Speaker 1: and I feel like that would have meant a lot

884
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:44,600
Speaker 1: to her, and she was cremated and buried alongside the

885
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:47,080
Speaker 1: ashes of her son. She left most of her wealth,

886
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:49,759
Speaker 1: which totaled around three point five million in today's money,

887
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 1: to the cause she loved. Most. The inmates at several

888
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:55,200
Speaker 1: prisons were to receive yearly gifts and a thousand dollars

889
00:48:55,239 --> 00:48:57,520
Speaker 1: was spent to buy a new piano for a nearby

890
00:48:57,600 --> 00:48:59,360
Speaker 1: jail for the inmates, which I think is like a

891
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:02,200
Speaker 1: funk off ancy piano, right, like ten Like, I think

892
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:08,360
Speaker 1: it's like twelve dollars a nice piano. And most importantly,

893
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:10,719
Speaker 1: she wanted two of her properties to be converted into

894
00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 1: homes for children of inmates quote regardless of color, religion,

895
00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 1: or nationality, and have that whole thing funded by a

896
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:21,960
Speaker 1: trust set up in her name. But she included a

897
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:24,359
Speaker 1: section in her will that was basically like, please don't

898
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:29,400
Speaker 1: litigate my will. And the kids litigated the will, of

899
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:31,919
Speaker 1: course they did. They claimed that her mother, their mother,

900
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:35,360
Speaker 1: was crazy. They won. In their evidence for her mental

901
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:38,040
Speaker 1: instability was a copy of her autobiography, like it's just

902
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:39,719
Speaker 1: like in the court records, it's just a copy of

903
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:42,719
Speaker 1: the book, being like, clearly she's crazy. Have you read

904
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:48,280
Speaker 1: this book? Ah? And the kids didn't take all the money,

905
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 1: but they took more of it, and the memorial funds

906
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:53,400
Speaker 1: took less, and the home for kids for prisoners, the

907
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:57,960
Speaker 1: Home for the kids of prisoners was never built. There was,

908
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:01,120
Speaker 1: in the end, a trilogy of movies loosely based on

909
00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:03,399
Speaker 1: her In the thirties, so she did get her fucking movie.

910
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:06,720
Speaker 1: Maybe that six dollars was worth it. There's three movies,

911
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:09,880
Speaker 1: The Notorious Sophie Lange, The Return of Sophie Lange, and

912
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:14,440
Speaker 1: Sophie Lang Goes West like five. All yeah, exactly. I know.

913
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 1: I was like, I assume that you just must have

914
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:18,160
Speaker 1: had to do a Goes West at the end of

915
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:21,960
Speaker 1: a trilogy at any point in American cinema theory. And

916
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 1: her main biographer, Shane Davidson, refers to her as a

917
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:29,719
Speaker 1: bad woman in the opening of her book. But and

918
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:31,319
Speaker 1: it to be clear, it's a decent book. It's a

919
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:34,160
Speaker 1: solid biography, and at times it gets more nuanced, but

920
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:36,480
Speaker 1: it also like trusts cops more than say I do.

921
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 1: And I don't think it's fair to judge her that way.

922
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 1: I think I prefer the introduction to a somewhat a

923
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:46,880
Speaker 1: more recent edition of her autobiography, which I helped push

924
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 1: put this book out. Basically is how I first heard

925
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 1: of her is that I used to work with a

926
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:53,160
Speaker 1: publisher called Combustion Books, and we put out a book

927
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:55,239
Speaker 1: called Queen of the Underworld, which is an edition of

928
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:58,400
Speaker 1: her autobiography, and the introduction to that book is by

929
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:01,359
Speaker 1: Matthew Whitley, and in it says about the criminal world

930
00:51:01,360 --> 00:51:03,360
Speaker 1: she inhabited, and this quote kind of sums up a

931
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:07,560
Speaker 1: lot of my thoughts around her quote. These were people

932
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:10,800
Speaker 1: of an innately different logic, routinely committing the great American

933
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:14,200
Speaker 1: sin of letting their wealth idle and waste, oftentimes burning

934
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:17,840
Speaker 1: through more than one fortune in their flamboyant lives, unlike

935
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:19,960
Speaker 1: the commerce driven criminals who still make their home in

936
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:22,120
Speaker 1: the shadowed palm of the hand of the marketplace, such

937
00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:26,160
Speaker 1: as the Italian mafia, the Japanese Accusa. Sophie Lyons and

938
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:28,319
Speaker 1: those like her were below into the left in a

939
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:32,360
Speaker 1: social wound quote, I don't belong to the working class.

940
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:35,680
Speaker 1: I belong to the criminal class. And I feel like

941
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:39,640
Speaker 1: that idea, right, this idea of just being like the

942
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:43,960
Speaker 1: criminal class, not as like I'm just trying to I mean,

943
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:46,240
Speaker 1: clearly she's trying to accumulate wealth, but she's also fucking

944
00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:48,640
Speaker 1: blowing it left and right, and so is everyone around her.

945
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:53,200
Speaker 1: And and I think that actually is reflected in a

946
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 1: lot of parts of modern criminal culture, this idea of

947
00:51:56,120 --> 00:52:00,479
Speaker 1: like just living extravagant lives. I think that's super interest. Yeah,

948
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:06,759
Speaker 1: because like especially like if you you know, juxtapose that

949
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:10,160
Speaker 1: with like modern like current sort of hip hop culture.

950
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:13,680
Speaker 1: You know, even if you go back to like I

951
00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:15,839
Speaker 1: mean early hip hop, like you know, I gotta Coop

952
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:18,440
Speaker 1: de Ville Swooped were like you know, these dudes were

953
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:20,800
Speaker 1: living in the projects, rapping about their Cadillacs. It's like

954
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:24,600
Speaker 1: you don't have a Cadillac, man, It's this desire, you

955
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:28,440
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, to live like those that are wealthy,

956
00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:30,919
Speaker 1: you know. And then and then the idea of like

957
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:34,440
Speaker 1: well the streets is where you get this wealth, like

958
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:36,880
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, And like, uh, there's the

959
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:40,520
Speaker 1: part that you know for like again like almost like

960
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:43,799
Speaker 1: influenced by the mafia, Like why like track suits and

961
00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:45,520
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying and stuff like that, Like

962
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:47,399
Speaker 1: why black people start doing that? It's like I learned

963
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:50,120
Speaker 1: from my New York friends. It's like Yo's the Italians,

964
00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:52,520
Speaker 1: Like he's like man and foods look so cool, you

965
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:54,560
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. Like he's like you know, and

966
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:56,680
Speaker 1: he's like Adida's track suits. You know what I'm saying.

967
00:52:56,680 --> 00:52:58,799
Speaker 1: It's like Yo, that looks dope, like that style. So

968
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:01,040
Speaker 1: and you just saw them with their jewelry and stuff

969
00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 1: running around streets. You know what I'm saying, They're the

970
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:05,120
Speaker 1: most terrifying people in the block. You Like, that's kind

971
00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:07,360
Speaker 1: of dope, Like I just want to live that life

972
00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 1: versus the guy that's like I'm getting this out the

973
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:14,120
Speaker 1: mud and I really don't care if you know my name,

974
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:16,319
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like I'm trying to like

975
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:19,680
Speaker 1: I'm honestly trying to feed my daughter and this is

976
00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:22,359
Speaker 1: the best way to do it. Like these different sort

977
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:26,160
Speaker 1: of mentalities of something. Yeah that like crime is that complicated,

978
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:27,759
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And it's more of a

979
00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:33,759
Speaker 1: you know, reflection of what we value as a civilization,

980
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:36,399
Speaker 1: as a as a nation, as a culture, and what

981
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:40,120
Speaker 1: we consider you know, in bounds and out of bounds,

982
00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:41,960
Speaker 1: because like you said, it's like, you know what's so

983
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:44,920
Speaker 1: different than Carnegie, you know what I'm saying, Like you

984
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:48,319
Speaker 1: just like you just you're just calling that, okay, you

985
00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:50,160
Speaker 1: feel me what we what we're willing to accept, and

986
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:51,880
Speaker 1: what we're not willing to accept. You know, that's not

987
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:55,600
Speaker 1: to say that like millions of people chose other routes,

988
00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:57,440
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, Like I'm from the same

989
00:53:57,480 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 1: hoods these people is like, you know, I didn't go

990
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:01,840
Speaker 1: that route, you know what I mean. But that being said,

991
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:07,200
Speaker 1: you know, that complication of like what draws a person

992
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:09,920
Speaker 1: to this world and why they stay, you know, is

993
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:14,080
Speaker 1: something that should be part of the commentary. Also yeah, yeah, no,

994
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:16,719
Speaker 1: and that this is why I was excited to have

995
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:18,880
Speaker 1: you on to be able to talk about, like, because

996
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:20,359
Speaker 1: I know that's something that you talked about a lot

997
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:23,120
Speaker 1: on your podcasts and people want to yeah, hear more. Yeah,

998
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:26,200
Speaker 1: it's complicated, man, like you know, and I'm like, why

999
00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:31,000
Speaker 1: are you somebody? Yeah? Like why is why is this

1000
00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:36,439
Speaker 1: person's desire to accumulate wealth any different than Elon must

1001
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:39,799
Speaker 1: desire to accumulate? Yeah? Would you? Who you? What do you? What?

1002
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:42,680
Speaker 1: Is he wrong for wanting to be wealthy and using

1003
00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:46,120
Speaker 1: what he's got or what she's got at her disposal

1004
00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:50,000
Speaker 1: to attain that? Which what do you? What are you

1005
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:54,280
Speaker 1: judging here? Yeah? You feel? Yeah? Yeah, and it worked.

1006
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:56,080
Speaker 1: And that's like at the same time, you know, she

1007
00:54:56,120 --> 00:54:57,799
Speaker 1: could tell that she wanted her kids and not have

1008
00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:00,279
Speaker 1: to do that work right, you know exactly, And and

1009
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:02,239
Speaker 1: that's isn't that again, Like like you said, isn't that

1010
00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:03,759
Speaker 1: why all of us work. You know what I'm saying.

1011
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:05,960
Speaker 1: Isn't that why all of us try to succeed so

1012
00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:07,400
Speaker 1: that our kids don't got to go through what we

1013
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:09,680
Speaker 1: went through, Like unless you don't have kids, you know

1014
00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:12,120
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, or never, but there's there's no way,

1015
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 1: you know exactly like you like I'm trying to get

1016
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:16,359
Speaker 1: my mom out of the hood. I'm trying to get

1017
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:18,239
Speaker 1: my grandma at this like I don't want you know,

1018
00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:21,040
Speaker 1: you don't want if you live that kind of that

1019
00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:22,840
Speaker 1: kind of hearts, that kind of struggle or just some

1020
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:25,600
Speaker 1: sort of insecurity, Like why is that not the goal?

1021
00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:28,399
Speaker 1: You know? Like I thought about that with my own child,

1022
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:31,439
Speaker 1: where I'm like, she ain't got no grit, you don't

1023
00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:33,720
Speaker 1: know how to you know, bust, And I'm like food,

1024
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:36,680
Speaker 1: that's why you work. It works so that she don't

1025
00:55:36,719 --> 00:55:38,680
Speaker 1: have to Like what are you talking about? You know

1026
00:55:38,680 --> 00:55:45,240
Speaker 1: what I mean? Well, thanks for having me, Margaret. I'm

1027
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:47,360
Speaker 1: glad you were here for my started off because I

1028
00:55:47,400 --> 00:55:50,640
Speaker 1: had only read the autobiography where it's just like this

1029
00:55:50,840 --> 00:55:53,000
Speaker 1: just rules. I just had fun, and then I like

1030
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:56,399
Speaker 1: read the real one, like I kicked my daughter out

1031
00:55:56,400 --> 00:55:58,839
Speaker 1: of the house with a gun, I you know, lost

1032
00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:01,759
Speaker 1: my mind three times. I you know what I mean.

1033
00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:05,400
Speaker 1: But it I like that nuanced picture better anyway, right,

1034
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:07,680
Speaker 1: because the goal isten to be like, isn't it great?

1035
00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:10,719
Speaker 1: Everyone go out and do crime as much as like? Nah,

1036
00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:13,120
Speaker 1: I don't know if I understand it, you know, yo,

1037
00:56:13,280 --> 00:56:18,840
Speaker 1: such as life. Yeah, a lot going on here totally. Well,

1038
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:22,880
Speaker 1: I hear you make coffee, and I do. I'm going

1039
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:25,319
Speaker 1: to be where where is your coffee available for sale?

1040
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:28,480
Speaker 1: I'm it's I'm actually curious. This is not just it

1041
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:31,760
Speaker 1: is clearly so it's on the website. Yeah, it's definitely

1042
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:35,440
Speaker 1: on the website terraform, cold brew dot com. Um in

1043
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:40,880
Speaker 1: Los Angeles, it's at coffee shop called her Rum Coffee

1044
00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:45,239
Speaker 1: in um in Lamert Park in the Crashaw District. It's

1045
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:49,400
Speaker 1: at a restaurant called UM the Nest tom be In

1046
00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:52,200
Speaker 1: that's in a city called Bellflower. It's at a third

1047
00:56:52,239 --> 00:56:56,120
Speaker 1: spot in Wilmington's called Vintage Coffee. Uh. And right now

1048
00:56:56,200 --> 00:56:58,759
Speaker 1: those my only clients. I'm like fighting to get into

1049
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:00,920
Speaker 1: more places. But you know, I'm at that like scale

1050
00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:03,760
Speaker 1: or die situation. So if you guys had like thirty

1051
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:06,920
Speaker 1: five dollars sitting around somewhere that you'd be willing to

1052
00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:09,600
Speaker 1: give me on a hope for return on investment. That'd

1053
00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:14,800
Speaker 1: be dope. Oh yeah, anyone listening. This isn't like the

1054
00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:18,800
Speaker 1: Hungarian movie thing. This is actually seriously, I'm making coffee

1055
00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:21,240
Speaker 1: and I need to scale because I got some clients

1056
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:25,080
Speaker 1: that are interested. Sophie. Anyway, do you have anything you

1057
00:57:25,120 --> 00:57:27,960
Speaker 1: want to plug? Let's see what do I want to plug?

1058
00:57:28,720 --> 00:57:32,280
Speaker 1: My dear friend Jamie Loftus, her Hot Dog book is

1059
00:57:32,280 --> 00:57:35,200
Speaker 1: going to be available for preorder, the whole book of

1060
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:37,880
Speaker 1: Dog Like you can eat the pages the most interest

1061
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:40,160
Speaker 1: you can lick. You can lick the pages, you can't

1062
00:57:40,160 --> 00:57:44,880
Speaker 1: eat them. Okay, but I'm very I'm very proud and

1063
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:49,560
Speaker 1: excited for this. She's been working on this for a while.

1064
00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:53,960
Speaker 1: Um yeah, go to her socials to to see what's up.

1065
00:57:54,160 --> 00:57:57,120
Speaker 1: She's Jamie christ Superstar on Instagram and at Jamie Loftus

1066
00:57:57,160 --> 00:57:59,920
Speaker 1: Help on Twitter. But yeah, I just want to plug that,

1067
00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:03,800
Speaker 1: all right? And you have a book and prop as

1068
00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:05,440
Speaker 1: a book. Why does everybody have a book? Caught? You

1069
00:58:05,440 --> 00:58:08,440
Speaker 1: guys are such overachievers. You have a book, but you

1070
00:58:08,480 --> 00:58:11,440
Speaker 1: have changed your name after once you're a vampire for

1071
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:18,120
Speaker 1: people catch on. Yeah it was. It's called Twilight. Why

1072
00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:21,280
Speaker 1: crime doesn't pay you? No, no, no, it's called Twilight.

1073
00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:29,480
Speaker 1: That's my other book, Twilight. Yeah yeah, okay, got it. Um, yeah,

1074
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:31,680
Speaker 1: you have a book, but we won't be here tomorrow,

1075
00:58:32,120 --> 00:58:36,600
Speaker 1: and it is available wherever books are sold. I mean presumably,

1076
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:38,959
Speaker 1: I don't know. There's probably someone like hanging out who's

1077
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:41,000
Speaker 1: selling some books who doesn't have a copy of it yet,

1078
00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:43,160
Speaker 1: which case you should tell her, or you go to

1079
00:58:43,160 --> 00:58:45,000
Speaker 1: a library and they might have it, and if not,

1080
00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:46,880
Speaker 1: you could be like, hey, should get this book, and

1081
00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:48,560
Speaker 1: then they'll be like, it was pretty dope finding your

1082
00:58:48,560 --> 00:58:51,800
Speaker 1: book in the library, right right, Yeah, that's yeah. I

1083
00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:53,520
Speaker 1: found my book in the library. I was like, yeah,

1084
00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:57,600
Speaker 1: in a library, what's your book? Prop. My book is

1085
00:58:57,600 --> 00:59:00,960
Speaker 1: also called Terraform Building, A Little of the World Collection

1086
00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:04,400
Speaker 1: of Poetry and short story. Yeah. It's a fun book, man.

1087
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:06,320
Speaker 1: I think it's fun read. It's got some illustrations. I

1088
00:59:06,320 --> 00:59:09,400
Speaker 1: think it's hell. Yeah, we will see you all next

1089
00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:12,240
Speaker 1: week when we talk about something else. It might still

1090
00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:20,240
Speaker 1: be criming, I'm not sure. Bye bye. Cool People Who

1091
00:59:20,240 --> 00:59:22,800
Speaker 1: Did Cool Stuff is a production of cool Zone Media.

1092
00:59:23,120 --> 00:59:25,960
Speaker 1: For more podcasts and cool Zone Media visit our website

1093
00:59:26,080 --> 00:59:28,640
Speaker 1: cool zone media dot com, or check us out on

1094
00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:31,600
Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

1095
00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:32,680
Speaker 1: get your podcasts.