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Speaker 1: You're listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Ghost Dam

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Speaker 1: Paranormal podcast network. We offer you podcasts of the paranormal, supernatural,

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Speaker 1: and the unexplained. Get ready now for episode one of

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Speaker 1: Beyond Contact.

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Speaker 2: What's Captain Wrong?

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Speaker 3: Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware the thoughts and

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Speaker 3: opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and opinions

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Speaker 3: only and do not reflect those of iHeartMedia, iHeartRadio, Coast

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Speaker 3: to Coast AM, employees of Premiere Networks, or their sponsors

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Speaker 3: and associates. We would like to encourage you to do

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Speaker 3: your own research and discover the subject matter for yourself.

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Speaker 4: Hey everyone, it's Captain Ron and each week on Beyond Contact,

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Speaker 4: we'll explore the latest news in ufology, discuss some of

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Speaker 4: the classic cases, and bring you the latest information from

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Speaker 4: the newest cases as we talk with the top experts.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Beyond Contact. I am Captain Ron, and today

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Speaker 2: I'll be speaking with Paul Heinek. Paul is an incredible

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Speaker 2: guy and we could go down any of one hundred

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Speaker 2: paths with Paul, from being a professor to working on

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Speaker 2: huge movies, to radical life extension therapy, cryptocurrency, member of mensa,

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Speaker 2: on and on and on on top of everything else.

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Speaker 2: He's a hell of a great guy. But for our purposes,

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Speaker 2: we're going to keep it to his extensive knowledge regarding

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Speaker 2: UFOs and his work in the UFO community. How are

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Speaker 2: you doing today, brother, excellent ron, Happy to be here.

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Speaker 2: I really appreciate it. We're kicking the show off. Let

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Speaker 2: me just start out, just briefly, if you would, about

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Speaker 2: growing up in the j allen Heineck household, where the

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Speaker 2: subject of UFOs was a normal thing for you at

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Speaker 2: the dinner table, unlike the rest of us.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, however you grow up is normal to

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Speaker 5: you until you look back at it over time, whether

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Speaker 5: it was good or bad. And our household was great.

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Speaker 5: I was very lucky. I don't know, as you know,

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Speaker 5: life without UFOs. We had flying Saucer ornaments on the

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Speaker 5: Christmastery and Travis Walton over for dinner, so it was

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Speaker 5: it was always present. And the one thing I like

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Speaker 5: to say is that my father, you know, UFOs were

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Speaker 5: kind of a side hustle late in life for him.

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Speaker 5: He was at his core an astronomer, and that's really

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Speaker 5: how we saw him as a professor and astronomer who

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Speaker 5: happened to be getting more and more interested in flying

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Speaker 5: saucers and UFOs and abductions later on. But it was

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Speaker 5: fascinating because he really inculcated in all five of his

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Speaker 5: children a love of science and the scientific method, and

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Speaker 5: of being healthily skeptical but open to the sort of

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Speaker 5: mysteries lying at the fringes of the known universe.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think that's exactly what I want to get

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Speaker 2: to that. I think it's well known that your dad,

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Speaker 2: as a scientist, came into this world as a hard

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Speaker 2: skeptic and debunker of sorts. However, through the years of

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Speaker 2: looking at the subject, he seemed to have morphed into, basically,

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Speaker 2: to be honest, exactly what my position today is, which

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Speaker 2: is there is enough here in the data to warrant

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Speaker 2: more scientific investigation. So how would you describe that arc

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Speaker 2: of him changing his viewpoint on this topic.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I think you said exactly the way I see it.

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Speaker 5: You know, a funny thing happened on the way to

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Speaker 5: his debunking parade that the sort of annoying way of

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Speaker 5: the accumulated data made him feel just like you said,

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Speaker 5: that it merited more study. He didn't become a believer,

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Speaker 5: because that's not really a word that scientists traffic. And

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Speaker 5: but over time, this annoying phenomena just kept gnawing at

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Speaker 5: him and pulling on his coattails and made him realize that, yeah,

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Speaker 5: something is happening here. That doesn't mean, as you know, Ron,

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Speaker 5: that it's necessarily extraterrestrial or any other particular theory, but

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Speaker 5: that there is something here which he and a Jacques

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Speaker 5: Vallet often called meta terrestrial, and I think meaning that

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Speaker 5: there's something or some things that come from beyond our

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Speaker 5: current understanding of our terrestrial technology.

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Speaker 2: Did he have a position regarding what he thought the

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Speaker 2: phenomenon might be, like was he more in the nuts

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Speaker 2: and bolt spacecraft across distance, or was he more in

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Speaker 2: the inner dimensional camp or or was it something else?

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Speaker 5: Even Yeah, and again you framed that really well, because

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Speaker 5: he was very comfortable as a scientist saying, hey, the

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Speaker 5: data points to there being a bona fide phenomena here,

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Speaker 5: but the origin or source of it is beyond really

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Speaker 5: the knowledge base of a scientist. So he would theorize

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Speaker 5: that the extraterrestrial hypothesis could well be part of it.

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Speaker 5: But as Jacques once said, if that's all it turns

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Speaker 5: out to be, it'll be really disappointing. One of the

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Speaker 5: things that my father would say is if you liken

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Speaker 5: the visible universe to the size of the continent US,

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Speaker 5: Earth is less than a speck of dust in Kansas.

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Speaker 5: So even though we've been beaming out episodes of I

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Speaker 5: Love Lucy Low these many decades, we're so small and

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Speaker 5: insignificant in the cosmic scale that just finding us is

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Speaker 5: non trivial. And then if they're getting in a spaceship

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Speaker 5: and enduring the rigors of solar radiation, etc. And coming

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Speaker 5: all this way, why wouldn't they be a little bit

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Speaker 5: more overt Okay, maybe it's the prime directive, and maybe

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Speaker 5: they're manipulating and cross breeding, but it didn't really seem

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Speaker 5: to make a lot of sense. So he and Jacques

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Speaker 5: and many others lean towards the interdimensional theory, which I

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Speaker 5: find to be very compelling, because if it's another dimension,

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Speaker 5: they're kind of here adjacent and may in some way

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Speaker 5: be related to us, which would explain how they know

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Speaker 5: about us and why they would care.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting you said. The way you phrased that.

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Speaker 2: It reminded me immediately of the jungle theory. Which is

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Speaker 2: you have two scientists walking through the jungle in Africa

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Speaker 2: and they come across a giant ant hill and there's

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Speaker 2: millions of ants on there, and they pick out ten

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Speaker 2: of them and they put them in a jar. They

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Speaker 2: may even put a little number on their back or

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Speaker 2: a tag or some sort of identifying thing, and they

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Speaker 2: put them back and the rest of the ants are

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Speaker 2: completely unaware that we were even there. And these ants

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Speaker 2: are tagged and marked and we track them. You know,

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Speaker 2: it could be something is similar to that where we

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Speaker 2: can't even understand that plane, if you know what I mean.

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Speaker 5: That's really a good way to put it. You know,

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Speaker 5: if entities are coming here from another time, another planet,

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Speaker 5: another dimension, they likely have technological capabilities so far beyond

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Speaker 5: ours as to we would consider that to be magic,

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Speaker 5: and so they could blink in and out and do

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Speaker 5: what they want. The interdimensional theory to me, also kind

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Speaker 5: of jibes with some of the reports of sightings of

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Speaker 5: the crafts that seem to do things that defy our

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Speaker 5: laws of physics, or like my father would call the

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Speaker 5: cheshire Cat phenomena. They appear and disappear, and it kind

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Speaker 5: of feels like they might be going to and from

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Speaker 5: another dimension. You know, you mentioned the ant hill. Another

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Speaker 5: kind of interesting way to look at that in the

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Speaker 5: jungle theory is what is the life form in that

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Speaker 5: ant colony. Is it an individual ant which has very

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Speaker 5: little freedom of what they do, or is it the

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Speaker 5: overall ant hive, the overall ant colony that the single

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Speaker 5: organism and the cells are the individual ants exactly.

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Speaker 2: The whole hive mentality thing is something else that could

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Speaker 2: be explored, you know, And I'm sure there's other things

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Speaker 2: that we haven't even thought of yet. Here's an idea

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Speaker 2: I had. If there was another advanced civilization out there,

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Speaker 2: it is far more likely that they would be sending

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Speaker 2: some form of AI controlled probe or drone. Not a

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Speaker 2: biologic being that requires sleep, gets sick, dies, et cetera,

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Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera, has to eat. Also, an AI

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Speaker 2: system would work twenty four hours a day, seven days

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Speaker 2: a week. It would continue to learn, it would continue

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Speaker 2: to send back data. Hell, we still have to this

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Speaker 2: day data coming back from the Voyager probe that we

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Speaker 2: send back out in nineteen seventy seven. And that's not

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Speaker 2: even AI.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 2: That's that's an interesting aspect, right.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, we're on the verge of driverless cars.

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Speaker 5: Do we really think that advanced civilizations wouldn't have pilot

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Speaker 5: list saucers? It just makes sense. And that's also consistent

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Speaker 5: with a lot of the reports of the grays that

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Speaker 5: we see that seem to have like this bored like

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Speaker 5: hive mentality and often don't have mouth or other things

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Speaker 5: that we kind of view as essential biological features.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's another interesting aspect there. How do you think

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Speaker 2: that interdimensional travel would work? And I know that's a

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Speaker 2: huge thing. I just mean in general, just.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, from a theoretical UFO point of view, interdimensional is

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Speaker 5: my happy place as to how that works. Yeah, I

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Speaker 5: don't know, but I'm a big fan of Andrew Gallimore

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Speaker 5: and his book Alien Information Theory. And for those of

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Speaker 5: you not familiar with Andrew Gallimore, he's a neuroscientist from

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Speaker 5: Oxford who has several books now that theorize that the

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Speaker 5: experiences people have while under the influence of DMT, which

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Speaker 5: is the most powerful psychedelic drug known, that those may

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Speaker 5: not be hallucinatory in nature, but actually more revelatory of

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Speaker 5: another very real dimension, and dementia gets to be kind

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Speaker 5: of a fuzzy word here because people use that in

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Speaker 5: different ways, but sort of like another plane of existence

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Speaker 5: that's not necessarily physically located elsewhere. And he's got some

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Speaker 5: really interesting theories and lays out a very sound approach

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Speaker 5: to how DMT might actually be a portal to what

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Speaker 5: could be another dimension which, if real, may or may

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Speaker 5: not be related in some way to the UFO phenomena.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting that you're calling that a portal. We're

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Speaker 2: going to take a quick break here. When we come back,

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Speaker 2: we're going to talk to Paul about his thoughts on

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Speaker 2: some of the different government agencies like Arrow and Blue Book.

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Speaker 2: You're listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast

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Speaker 2: to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Keep it here on the iHeartRadio on

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Speaker 2: Okay, we're back on Beyond Contact with Captain Ron. So Paul,

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Speaker 2: we're looking back on history here for a second, and

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Speaker 2: I remember there was these organizations from the government. There

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Speaker 2: was Project Grunge, Project sign famously, Project Bluebook that everybody

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Speaker 2: knows about with twelve thousand cases, and then there was

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Speaker 2: the Robertson Panel and the Condent Report. Many of these

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Speaker 2: had direct involvement from your father as the scientist, but

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Speaker 2: these all pretty much seem, certainly, looking through today's eyes,

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Speaker 2: to me, more like propaganda pieces than real scientific studies.

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Speaker 2: Is that what your dad thought? And how do you

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Speaker 2: feel about those reports?

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Speaker 5: Let's start with the general statement that public facing governmental

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Speaker 5: agencies or departments related to UFOs are typically more pr

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Speaker 5: exercises to tamp down hysteria as opposed to serious scientific efforts.

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Speaker 5: Project blue Book started in nineteen forty nine. As as

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Speaker 5: early as nineteen fifty two no longer had the main

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Speaker 5: responsibility for investigating UFO sidings. It was dispatched to the

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Speaker 5: Air Intelligence Service Squadron and so they were really set

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Speaker 5: there to help reassure the public that the United States

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Speaker 5: Air Force was on the job, was on the fence,

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Speaker 5: taking care of us, and we had nothing to worry about.

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Speaker 5: So it was a frustrating experience from my father, who

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Speaker 5: was a scientist who wanted to investigate sightings from a

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Speaker 5: scientific point of view, but from the Air Force's point

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Speaker 5: of view, as always, is this a threat to national

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Speaker 5: security and or to the sort of public temperature about

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Speaker 5: the phenomena.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so let's flash forward to today and we have

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Speaker 2: something called air the All Domain Anomaly Resolution Office. Just

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Speaker 2: back in March, they came out with a statement and

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Speaker 2: a report that concluded that AEROL found no evidence that

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Speaker 2: any USG investigation, academic sponsored research, or official review panel

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Speaker 2: has confirmed that any sighting of a UAP represented ET technology.

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Speaker 2: This feels like it could have been right out of

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Speaker 2: any of those aforementioned reports.

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Speaker 5: Right, it's out of the same playbook. Nothing to see here, folks,

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Speaker 5: please disperse, right, And you know, for my money, I

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Speaker 5: don't care what the US government says or has regarding UFOs,

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Speaker 5: psychedelics or bitcoin. They are a bad faith, corrupt central actor.

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Speaker 5: And you know in addition, if you are the Air Force,

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Speaker 5: let's say Ron, that you and I are the two

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Speaker 5: top generals in the Air Force. We know where all

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Speaker 5: the alien bodies are buried, where all the flying saucers

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Speaker 5: are stored, and we are going to decide right now

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Speaker 5: if we are to disclose this information. Here's my opinion.

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Speaker 5: I'll be good in goddamn if I'm going to obey

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Speaker 5: some pasty faced pencil pusher on Capitol Hill with his

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Speaker 5: subpoenas for information. All due respect to Danny c and

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Speaker 5: Steve Basket, Richard Dolan and all the others, but I'm

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Speaker 5: not here as an Air Force general for compliance. I

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Speaker 5: am here for full spectrum dominance and I don't care

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Speaker 5: what the laws are. I don't care what the Constitution is.

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Speaker 5: I am here on that wall you want me on

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Speaker 5: that wall to protect us, and I am not going

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Speaker 5: to give up any Crown Jewel secrets we have about

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Speaker 5: propulsion technology, etc. My job is not to make the

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Speaker 5: world a better place or to lessen our dependence on

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Speaker 5: fossil fuel. My job and your job, Ron, is to

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Speaker 5: kick ass and that's what we're going to do. So

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Speaker 5: I'm sorry there will be no disclosure to that.

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Speaker 2: I get that, I really do. I would just think

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Speaker 2: that given today's climate, they would have at least said

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Speaker 2: something like, given the credible military pilot accounts and testimonials,

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Speaker 2: we have found x amount of cases to yet be unexplained,

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Speaker 2: or something to that effect, instead of the blanket there's

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Speaker 2: nothing at all to see here. That feels very disingenuous.

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Speaker 2: Even Project Bluebook said there are five percent that are

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Speaker 2: unexplained and another huge portion that said there's not enough

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Speaker 2: data to make a clear conclusion. That's at least better

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Speaker 2: to me personally, I immediately thought, well, arrows nothing but propaganda.

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Speaker 2: If they're going to be so blanket about it, what

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Speaker 2: did you feel?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's dismissive, it's disinformation. They have secrets we don't know.

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Speaker 5: We can debate about exactly what level information and bodies

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Speaker 5: and saucer they may have, but they're not going to

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Speaker 5: give it up.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 5: Our good friend Steve Bassett, who's been called the evergreen

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Speaker 5: disclosure optimist, believes it's happening around the corner. But I

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Speaker 5: just don't see the government giving this information up. And

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Speaker 5: if we had captured saucers at Roswell in other places,

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Speaker 5: and we had successfully re engineered the technology. They would

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Speaker 5: be speaking English in Beijing and Russia by now, because

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Speaker 5: we're not going to sit on that military superiority of technology.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, you know. I know Steve keeps arguing that we're

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Speaker 2: on the precipice of the Big D disclosure, as he

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Speaker 2: phrases it. I just really don't see any impotence for

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Speaker 2: them to disclose, if in fact they have anything to disclose.

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Speaker 2: I also feel, in our subdivided society, it's hard to

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Speaker 2: even define disclosure. If another country quote unquote disclosed, how

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Speaker 2: many Americans would even believe it? Even in today's world.

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Speaker 2: If a US president quote unquote disclosed without some really serious,

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Speaker 2: strong evidence, folks in the opposite party wouldn't even believe it.

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Speaker 5: This is not your father's disclosure, that's right. We tended

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Speaker 5: this idea of disclosure as the archetypal event of a

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Speaker 5: saucer landing on the lawn of the White House, Walter

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Speaker 5: Cronkite type person narrating it. Okay, now the whole world

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Speaker 5: believe But you're right, if the Republicans release information, the

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Speaker 5: Democrats won't believe it, and vice versa. Plus, the government

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Speaker 5: doesn't have much credibility. So now it's just a very

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Speaker 5: difficult thing. Even if let's say you and I are

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Speaker 5: the two air Force generals seeing with an interagency cooperation level,

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Speaker 5: how do you convince people and how do you prime

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Speaker 5: the pump for some time? Is this an ongoing process.

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Speaker 5: It's a very difficult proposition. Even if we did decide okay,

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Speaker 5: some other countries forcing our hand, or now is the time,

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Speaker 5: or I've had a change of heart and I just

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Speaker 5: want to do this, it's a very difficult thing to

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Speaker 5: do in this age of fake news and disinformation.

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Speaker 2: I agree, And I also feel that a lot of

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Speaker 2: people seem to think like it's just this simple thing

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Speaker 2: that they could just cut and dry, say, okay, we

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Speaker 2: are disclosing, you know, like there's just a statement and

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Speaker 2: then that's it. But all that would do is open

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Speaker 2: a giant can of worms for the government. Why did

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Speaker 2: you lie to us? You ruin my grandfather's life, you

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Speaker 2: silenced him, you threatened him. What other countries know about this?

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Speaker 2: How long have you had this? If you have free energy,

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Speaker 2: why are we using fossil fuels and killing the planet.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there's to be so much backlash from every

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Speaker 2: segment of society. I just don't see big D disclosure

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Speaker 2: happening at all.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, And most politicians, especially in the US, have a

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Speaker 5: fairly short term in office, right a few years, maybe

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Speaker 5: ten twenty years usually of the outside, and this is

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Speaker 5: a long term thing. It's like the classic problem of

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Speaker 5: why should I borrow a bunch of money now which

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Speaker 5: hurts the economy for a long term benefit? Will you

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Speaker 5: benefit my successor if we get involved in disclosure now,

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Speaker 5: it's going to suck up all the air in the

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Speaker 5: room for years. What else will get done? What other

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Speaker 5: issues will be discussed? I will go down in history

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Speaker 5: as the disclosure person?

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Speaker 2: Do I want? That?

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Speaker 5: Is that the legacy I want? So? It just it

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Speaker 5: will change the world dramatically overnight, just like a singularity.

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Speaker 5: And even they know they can't predict how society might

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Speaker 5: unravel at that time.

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Speaker 2: You know, I just do not see this in my lifetime.

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Speaker 2: Maybe in your lifetime you're on the radical life extension therapy,

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Speaker 2: it might happen in your lifetime, Paul, but I do

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Speaker 2: not see it happening in my lifetime. Unfortunately. Okay, we're

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Speaker 2: gonna have to take a little break here, Paul. When

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Speaker 2: we come back, I want to talk to you about

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Speaker 2: propulsion systems and the reality is of crossing great distances

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Speaker 2: of space in the three D world. You're listening to

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Speaker 2: Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM

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Speaker 1: Hey folks, it's easier than ever to become a Coast

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Speaker 8: Hey, it's the producer Tom and you're right where you

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Speaker 8: Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network.

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Speaker 2: Okay, we are back on Beyond Contact with Captain Ron

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Speaker 2: and I'm talking to Paul Heinek. Moving more into the

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Speaker 2: three D space. Let's talk about this reality for a second.

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Speaker 2: I think you've looked at some of the different ways

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Speaker 2: that a craft could travel these vast distances and the

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Speaker 2: type of propulsion systems that would be required. What have

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Speaker 2: you found in that area.

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Speaker 5: Well, there's a lot of different technologies you could use,

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Speaker 5: and one that I'm recently very interested in is laser propulsion,

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Speaker 5: and the lead expert in the world here is Philip

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Speaker 5: Lubin at UCSB, And basically the ideas you use lasers

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Speaker 5: to photonically accelerate spaceships close to the speed of light,

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Speaker 5: and then you decelerate them upon the destination that gets

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Speaker 5: around a lot of the issues that we have with

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Speaker 5: you know, Vernervon Braun type of rocket propulsion and and

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Speaker 5: gases in ships, and so I think that is one

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Speaker 5: of the more viable ways to take a ship from

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Speaker 5: point A to point B without using a wormhole or

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Speaker 5: something else even more exotic to transport over those large distances.

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Speaker 2: Okay, now that's you talking about what we have today.

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Speaker 2: I've never heard of laser propulsion. That sounds amazing. But

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Speaker 2: what about you know another form that we just haven't

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Speaker 2: seen yet that you can imagine a new breakthrough in

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Speaker 2: the next let's say, one hundred years or so, if

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Speaker 2: something we haven't even thought about yet. This, of course

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Speaker 2: has been happening throughout history, where we run across a limitation,

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Speaker 2: you know, crossing the ocean, and we come up with

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Speaker 2: a ship, and you know, now we have airplanes, and

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Speaker 2: now we have airplanes that go the speed of sound,

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Speaker 2: and you know, you can just imagine that a new

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Speaker 2: technology of some kind would develop. Can you see that

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Speaker 2: happening that would make this much more plausible.

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Speaker 5: Oh? Absolutely. Let's use the term wormhole, which I think

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Speaker 5: most people are familiar with as a kind of shorthand

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Speaker 5: umbrella term for any kind of black swan advance in

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Speaker 5: propulsion or let's say transportation, because I think even propulsion

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Speaker 5: kind of limits us to thinking of a ship that

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Speaker 5: goes really fast. May not be a question of going

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Speaker 5: very fast. It may be quantum entanglement. It may be

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Speaker 5: some way that you go from point A to point

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Speaker 5: B without traversing the distance in between. I think that's

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Speaker 5: likely how we'll see that kind of qualitative advance as

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Speaker 5: opposed to just getting someplace much faster. Likely, as you

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Speaker 5: said before, some type of synthetic entity making that voyage

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Speaker 5: as opposed to a biological entity. For a biological entity

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Speaker 5: to voluntarily make that type of trip, it would likely

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Speaker 5: be some kind of wormhole advanced transportation concept where they're

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Speaker 5: just here and then they are there in a very

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Speaker 5: short time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not necessarily the actual speed of the craft,

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Speaker 2: with people always point to. It may actually be the

433
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 2: route that they need to take to get there. As

434
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:04,960
Speaker 2: you're suggesting.

435
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 5: Interesting and that that can involve time travel as well.

436
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:10,399
Speaker 2: Well, that's another whole realm.

437
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 6: That.

438
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,399
Speaker 2: Boy, that one's really hard for me to get my

439
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 2: head around. I really struggle with time travel. Some people

440
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 2: speculate that that could be what in fact, the phenomenon

441
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 2: is that that these that are time travelers.

442
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:25,680
Speaker 5: Michael Masters, he has a very cogent view, and I

443
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,360
Speaker 5: think he's presented the best, most convincing argument.

444
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 2: Agreed, one hundred percent.

445
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:32,480
Speaker 5: And one of the things that sort of rings true

446
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:36,280
Speaker 5: about that is that a lot of the sightings and

447
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:41,159
Speaker 5: reports of what we consider aliens seem to be a

448
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:46,679
Speaker 5: potential biological slash transhuman evolution of what humans could be

449
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 5: in the future. I think that's very interesting, It is

450
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:50,120
Speaker 5: very interesting.

451
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 2: I just it's the travel through time part that locks

452
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 2: me up, and I just can't. I can't get my

453
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:57,879
Speaker 2: head around that. I don't know that that's even plausible.

454
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 2: It seems beyond my opacity. Okay, you've been an in

455
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,679
Speaker 2: and around this arena most of your life. What have

456
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 2: you seen that you personally feel is the strongest piece

457
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 2: of evidence that makes you think something's happening with regard

458
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:18,399
Speaker 2: to possible contact with non human intelligence. What's the strongest

459
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 2: thing you've You've feel.

460
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 5: Several data points, and one of them you mentioned so

461
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:29,919
Speaker 5: Project Bluebook investigated officially about twelve thousand cases of those,

462
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 5: as you said, five percent, or about seven hundred. They

463
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 5: said were unsolved, and this was an entity that had

464
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:42,400
Speaker 5: an institutional imperative to rubber stamp solved on as many

465
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:45,359
Speaker 5: as they could. In fact, they were once called the

466
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:50,680
Speaker 5: Society for the Explanation of the Uninvestigator. The fact that

467
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 5: they couldn't explain those cases with all the resources they had,

468
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 5: and that five percent figure is somewhat constant even to

469
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 5: this day. That's a really compelling data point. Other things

470
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 5: like Roswell, not the particular details of what happened, but

471
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 5: the fact that the base commander put out an article

472
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 5: to the press, to the international media saying, we have

473
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 5: the remnants of a flying saucer. Now, I suppose they

474
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 5: had the expertise on base to distinguish between balsa wood

475
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 5: and tinfoil and rubber from something more exotic in terms

476
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 5: of material, and they said that they captured something. Now,

477
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 5: they obviously, as you know, walked it back the next day.

478
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:38,399
Speaker 5: But those type of things, as opposed to any particular case,

479
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 5: the accumulated weight of the data and what the government

480
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:46,400
Speaker 5: says about it before saying oops, my bad, I find

481
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,199
Speaker 5: those to be some of the most compelling arguments for

482
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:50,919
Speaker 5: the existence of this phenomena.

483
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:53,879
Speaker 2: Well, the acumative weight of the data, to me, is

484
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 2: an excellent phrasing for this problem. And I think it

485
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 2: is in fact the specifics of things like Roswell. That's

486
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:07,719
Speaker 2: the place that I point people to most frequently, because

487
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 2: I feel that if you read the books on Roswell,

488
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 2: and you know Don Schmidt and Kevin Randall and also

489
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:20,680
Speaker 2: Thomas Carey, those three gentlemen have done so much research

490
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 2: and there are so many pieces that fit together like

491
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 2: a perfect puzzle that seems well beyond chance that I

492
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 2: think they could lay out a really good case when

493
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 2: you find out that the guy that ran the funeral

494
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 2: home at three in the morning gets a call and

495
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 2: they need coffins, and you know, all of these little

496
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 2: pieces that line up and fit just exactly right to

497
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 2: fit the narrative that there was an alien craft that

498
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 2: crashed there. To me, supports the idea that this could

499
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 2: be real. Even these deathbed confessions from many of the

500
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 2: Roswell direct witnesses. What's the impetus for an eighty year

501
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 2: old former colonel to do a deathbed confession and then

502
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 2: in that confession he says, I want my granddaughter to

503
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 2: know the truth. I want the world to know this

504
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 2: is real. I haven't said a word about this in

505
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 2: sixty years. That's compelling, and how can people just dismiss

506
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 2: this out of hand?

507
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I think that with that we can sort

508
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 5: of tease out the nuance of difference between especially what

509
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 5: you call capital D disclosure and what I see is exposure.

510
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 5: Disclosure is we think of it as like, even though

511
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 5: the US government is not one monolithic block, but we

512
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 5: think of disclosure as sort of a coordinated announcement campaign

513
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 5: to release information. You and I both agree that's likely

514
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 5: not going to happen. But exposure is I say, individuals

515
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 5: in the government and experienceers and scientists saying, look, this

516
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 5: is one of the most important issues to face mankind.

517
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 5: We need to make progress on this. So the train

518
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 5: has left the station. If the US government wants to participate,

519
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 5: hey there's a comfy berth in the caboos, but you

520
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 5: are not driving this train.

521
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,479
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I agree, and I think many people feel we've

522
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 2: already had disclosure, as many witnesses direct witnesses have come forward,

523
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 2: and those people who've had these direct experiences, they believe

524
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 2: we have disclosure. They have everything they need. You are

525
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 2: listening to beyond contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast to

526
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 2: Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network.

527
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 1: The Internet is an extraordinary resource that links our children

528
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 1: to a world of information, experiences, and ideas, and also

529
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 1: can expose them to risk. Teach your children the basic

530
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 1: safety rules of the virtual world. Our children are everything,

531
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 1: Do everything for.

532
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 3: Them before The.

533
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 8: Art Belvault has classic audio waiting for you.

534
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 6: Now go to Coast to Coast AM dot com for details.

535
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 2: Take us with you anywhere.

536
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:21,959
Speaker 8: This is the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal

537
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 8: Podcast Network.

538
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 2: We are back on Beyond Contact with Captain Ron. We're

539
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 2: talking to Paul Heinek. Paul, you've taken your father's classification system,

540
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 2: the very famous by now close encounters of the first kind,

541
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 2: second kind, third kind, and so forth. But you've expanded

542
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 2: this and created your own classification system that goes more

543
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 2: in depth on this. Can you tell us about that.

544
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think my father would be gratified that people

545
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 5: still use close encounters as a scientific rubric to classify UFOs.

546
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 5: What it does, It speaks to the type of encounter.

547
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 5: What I'm trying to add to this and build upon

548
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 5: that is another system that speaks to the type of

549
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 5: evidence and the strength of that evidence. So I call

550
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 5: it verifiable evidence, and it has three different layers of

551
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 5: how compelling the evidence is and eight different categories. Is

552
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 5: it biological, is it technological? Is it mathematical? As we

553
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 5: talked about before, So that we can start to understand

554
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 5: both the type of the encounter and what we would

555
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 5: consider from a mainstream scientist's point of view as what

556
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 5: constitutes the evidence and how strong it was.

557
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's awesome. I hopefully that'll be kind of come

558
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 2: part of a lexicon here and we can all start

559
00:32:56,520 --> 00:33:00,479
Speaker 2: using this and then you know, compile that data together

560
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 2: and see which areas are strongest and that kind of thing.

561
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 2: I think it'll be great. Let me ask you another

562
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 2: question here, as as chairman of the advisory board for MUFON,

563
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 2: you have this unique vantage point on UFO sightings and investigations.

564
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 2: Can you share some of the insights you've had on

565
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 2: like maybe the more compelling cases or trends that you've

566
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 2: seen within their database.

567
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 5: That's a good question. So we no longer have an

568
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 5: advisory board from MUFON, but while there, and also with

569
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 5: my vantage point of knowing the Center FIOFO Studies now

570
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 5: known as the jayon He Center FIOFO.

571
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 2: Studies right right, Chicago, right.

572
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 5: I've had like this front row seat at seeing all

573
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 5: of this data, and it keeps coming back to the

574
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 5: accumulated weight of the data and patterns. And in the

575
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 5: upology one on one talk that I'll give it Contact

576
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 5: in the Desert, I've broken it down into different eras

577
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 5: because one of the most interesting things that Jacques Vallet

578
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 5: talks about a lot is how people tend to report

579
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 5: UFO sightings in the sort of dressing of the current technology.

580
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 5: First air I call angels and demons, which is in

581
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:12,280
Speaker 5: Biblical times, et cetera. Then you move to the airships

582
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 5: of like the eighteen nineties and we have like these

583
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:20,400
Speaker 5: steampunk balloon type contraptions with little fins and things. Then

584
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:22,920
Speaker 5: you get into the thirties and you have flying saucers

585
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 5: and ray guns and things like that, and then the

586
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 5: UFOs and now UAPs, and you can see these clear

587
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:33,840
Speaker 5: distinctions in how people interpret these and it reminds me

588
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 5: of that old story which I don't think is true

589
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 5: but is interesting of Native Americans seeing conquistador ships on

590
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,959
Speaker 5: the horizon or not seeing them because they don't even

591
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 5: have that in their visual vocabulary, and to me this

592
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 5: points to an even sort of deeper idea of we

593
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 5: have a lot of different supernatural phenomena, call it ghosts, DMT, UFOs, bigfoot,

594
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 5: whatever it is, and I and many others feel that

595
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 5: maybe they're not all distinctly separate phenomena, but there may

596
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 5: be some common substrate and that we see things in

597
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 5: ways that either we interpret or they might instantiate in

598
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 5: different ways for different purposes. So even beyond UFOs, I

599
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:26,720
Speaker 5: think there's a connective tissue that may well run through

600
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 5: these different phenomena, and that's one of the things I

601
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 5: want to explore and why I view DMT as especially

602
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 5: interesting because I don't have the ability, i'm sorry to say,

603
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:39,360
Speaker 5: even given my last name, to do a CE five

604
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 5: and summon a flying saucer to my house. But with

605
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 5: using DMT, I am able and others are able to

606
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:50,799
Speaker 5: feel like you're going into that realm and communicating with

607
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:54,880
Speaker 5: entities that I feel have told me are related to

608
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:56,239
Speaker 5: aliens and UFOs.

609
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 2: Wow, the fact that that's the message they gave you,

610
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 2: that it is related is fascinating on its own. That's

611
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 2: a whole show right there. Let's go down this real quick.

612
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 2: If you've done extensive experiences with virtual and augmented reality

613
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:14,359
Speaker 2: technologies because you do everything and artificial intelligence, do you

614
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:18,399
Speaker 2: see any potential applications for these immersive technologies.

615
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 5: Let's look at it from this point of view. I

616
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 5: know you're familiar with the Drake equation, which was created

617
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:29,800
Speaker 5: to be a starting point formula for how many planets

618
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 5: there might be in our galaxy that could support life

619
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 5: as we know it, and it turns out to be

620
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:38,319
Speaker 5: millions and millions of millions, right, Well, then you have

621
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:42,759
Speaker 5: the Fermie hypothesis. If there are so many planets that

622
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:47,400
Speaker 5: are capable of bearing life, why haven't we seen more

623
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:50,799
Speaker 5: evidence of that that rises to the level of mainstream

624
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:56,800
Speaker 5: science acceptance. Then you have the transcension hypothesis that states

625
00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 5: that another civilization, let's say on a distant planet, doesn't

626
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 5: need to come here to get gold or water or

627
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:10,800
Speaker 5: conduct trade. They can actually go into a hyper advanced

628
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 5: virtual reality world and go inside and find everything they

629
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 5: need there, from raw materials to organic matter to transcendental enlightenment,

630
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:28,400
Speaker 5: and they have no need to find or discover or

631
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:34,359
Speaker 5: create some exotic propulsion or transportation technology to go all

632
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:37,359
Speaker 5: the Way to Earth in the Milky Way galaxy when

633
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 5: they have everything right there, everything meaning things that we

634
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 5: can't even comprehend or imagine. So I like that sort

635
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:50,560
Speaker 5: of progression or sort of a composition of the Drake equation,

636
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:55,560
Speaker 5: the Fermi hypothesis, and let's say VR virtual reality on steroids,

637
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:59,840
Speaker 5: because virtual reality is as we know it is us humans,

638
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:04,439
Speaker 5: the analog creatures, putting on you know, awkward goggles and

639
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:09,520
Speaker 5: going into that digital universe, whereas augmented reality is the converse.

640
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:14,000
Speaker 5: It's we humans remaining in our analog world and having

641
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:19,359
Speaker 5: digital overlays come here. So the transcention hypothesis is that

642
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 5: they have a super advanced virtual reality capability and they

643
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 5: can just go to innerspace, which is as deep and

644
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 5: infinite as we consider our universe today.

645
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 2: Let me ask you this another question about AI and

646
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:35,759
Speaker 2: the advent of you know, photoshop, and now we can

647
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,279
Speaker 2: create these videos so easily. Do you think that's going

648
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:41,920
Speaker 2: to make it more difficult? Obviously it is for people

649
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:44,759
Speaker 2: who have seen something or try to document it to

650
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:47,760
Speaker 2: be believed, because now you can't trust anything.

651
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 5: This is the age of deep fakery. And you know,

652
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 5: just yesterday open Ai released chat GPT four. Oh, not

653
00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 5: oh as the number, but oh for optimized. And I

654
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 5: saw a demo this morning of voice activated AIS talking

655
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 5: to each other in a conversational manner, and they have

656
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 5: the ability through your phone or computer to see the

657
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 5: room and make judgments and you know, and talk about

658
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 5: things in the room for contact the desert. I've already

659
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:22,320
Speaker 5: composed an AI song to start off the Legends Penel,

660
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:26,240
Speaker 5: and you can do text to speech, text to video.

661
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 5: I've created dozens of images to show on my presentations

662
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:34,719
Speaker 5: using AI and with this ability to create things that

663
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,800
Speaker 5: will be photo real. You know, my father used to

664
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 5: say that, you know, the old expression was that a

665
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:43,400
Speaker 5: photo is worth a thousand words. Already by the point

666
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:45,759
Speaker 5: of his time, it was kind of the reverse that

667
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,880
Speaker 5: a thousand photos might be worth the word. But now

668
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 5: what can you believe as real or not? And then

669
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:56,400
Speaker 5: we get into the mind bending ideas of what actually

670
00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:59,319
Speaker 5: is real, you know, because it's all all boils down

671
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:02,839
Speaker 5: to electrical impulses in our brain. Right brain doesn't know

672
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 5: that a dream isn't real until you wake up and

673
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:07,440
Speaker 5: you realize in fact it was a dream. Same for

674
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 5: a DMT experience, until you come out of that unless

675
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 5: it's a lucid dream, which is a fascinating idea as well,

676
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 5: that you are aware that you're dreaming, but your brain

677
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:17,800
Speaker 5: doesn't know the difference.

678
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 2: Each one of these things we could talk about for

679
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 2: about four hours each, I think, so we'll have to

680
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:26,400
Speaker 2: do it again on an eight hour episode. We're going

681
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:28,279
Speaker 2: to have to stop there for today, though, Paul, But

682
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:30,400
Speaker 2: thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate

683
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:35,720
Speaker 2: all your insights. It's all fascinating stuff. Thanks for listening

684
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 2: to Beyond Contact. We'll be back next week with an

685
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 2: all new episode. You can follow me Captain Ron on

686
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:47,319
Speaker 2: Twitter and Instagram at at CID Underscore Captain Ron. Stay

687
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 2: connected by checking out Contact intheesert dot com. Stay open

688
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 2: minded and rational as we explore the unknown right here

689
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:58,320
Speaker 2: on Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast

690
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:00,240
Speaker 2: am Paranormal Podcast Network.

691
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:08,879
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast

692
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:11,959
Speaker 1: Day and Paranormal Podcast Network. Make sure and check out

693
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:15,239
Speaker 1: all our shows on the iHeartRadio app or by going

694
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:20,520
Speaker 1: to iHeartRadio dot com