WEBVTT - Marisa Thalberg - CCO & CMO of Catalyst Brands 0:00:07.000 --> 0:00:11.480 I do like taking on an underdog, because if you 0:00:11.600 --> 0:00:16.040 think about an underdog who's coming from behind, there's no 0:00:16.320 --> 0:00:19.799 sort of physics, sort of math equation where if you 0:00:20.079 --> 0:00:23.120 do things at exactly the same speed and the same 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:25.439 way as someone who's ahead of you, that you're going 0:00:25.520 --> 0:00:26.720 to catch up and surpass. 0:00:29.120 --> 0:00:33.000 That's our guest today Marissa Thalberg, chief customer and marketing 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:36.360 officer at Catalyst Brands, where she oversees a portfolio that 0:00:36.440 --> 0:00:40.559 includes American icons like J. C. Penny and Brooks Brothers. 0:00:41.000 --> 0:00:43.440 You may also know her from her time at Taco Bell, 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:46.440 where she helped turn the fast food chain into a 0:00:46.479 --> 0:00:50.960 lifestyle brand, or from earlier roles in beauty and luxury retail. 0:00:51.560 --> 0:00:55.000 Marissa has built a career on navigating change, and right 0:00:55.040 --> 0:00:58.520 now the retail landscape is anything but static. But that's 0:00:58.560 --> 0:01:00.600 one of the reasons we wanted to talk to her, 0:01:00.880 --> 0:01:04.759 because while these brands are working to reclaim cultural relevance, 0:01:05.000 --> 0:01:08.240 Marissa isn't one to back away from a challenge. In fact, 0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:11.440 she says she likes taking on an underdog because if 0:01:11.520 --> 0:01:13.679 you want to leap ahead, you can't just run the 0:01:13.680 --> 0:01:17.240 same race as everyone else. Today's show is a masterclass 0:01:17.240 --> 0:01:21.840 in resilience, modern leadership, and finding clarity and complexity. I'm 0:01:21.840 --> 0:01:25.520 furnished to Rabi and this is leading by example executives 0:01:25.560 --> 0:01:31.760 making an impact. Marissa Thalberg, Welcome to Leading by Example. 0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:33.959 I know it's a busy time for you, and we 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:35.720 appreciate you spending some time with us. 0:01:36.080 --> 0:01:37.759 Happy to be here, Thanks for having me. 0:01:38.440 --> 0:01:40.280 Let's just start with a little bit of what's happening 0:01:40.280 --> 0:01:42.640 in the world in the news. How is all this 0:01:42.760 --> 0:01:45.800 uncertainty impacting your day to day and some of your 0:01:45.840 --> 0:01:49.360 leadership right now? I am sure it's, as they say, unprecedented, 0:01:49.400 --> 0:01:51.000 But is anything ever unprecedented? 0:01:51.440 --> 0:01:54.720 Is anything ever precedent? Is really the question is there 0:01:54.760 --> 0:01:58.240 such a thing? I mean, it feels like have we 0:01:58.320 --> 0:02:01.840 ever really had a dull moment that point in business 0:02:01.920 --> 0:02:06.960 and life? And certainly it doesn't feel that way, especially 0:02:07.320 --> 0:02:11.360 having had a lot of now time in various forms 0:02:11.440 --> 0:02:14.520 of retail and the pressure of that. So the economic 0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:17.960 decision making right now or environment has definitely put a 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:23.240 whole set of uncertainty, fear, confusion, and real concerns about 0:02:23.240 --> 0:02:24.240 implications too. 0:02:24.639 --> 0:02:26.840 How to run a business right now with just. 0:02:26.880 --> 0:02:28.880 A whole set of new curve balls shall we say, 0:02:29.360 --> 0:02:32.280 but you have to take a mindset as a leader 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:35.680 since well, I want to generalize this to leadership versus 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:37.160 the specifics of the business. 0:02:37.800 --> 0:02:39.040 That is life. 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:43.000 There's always going to be curveballs, and I've tried to 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:46.079 teach my own daughters this that if I've learned anything 0:02:46.600 --> 0:02:48.720 in my career, the hardest thing, but probably the most 0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:53.600 important thing, has been resilience. And it has been shown 0:02:53.840 --> 0:02:57.600 through social science to be the number one characteristic that 0:02:57.720 --> 0:03:01.880 drives success. Not socioeconomic bad, not educational background. 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:03.840 But if you have grit, as. 0:03:03.760 --> 0:03:08.000 Angela Duckworth famously called it, or resilience, that really matters. 0:03:08.040 --> 0:03:11.480 And so how do you, as a leader indoctrinate your 0:03:11.520 --> 0:03:15.440 team and build that into your culture without creating chaos, 0:03:15.480 --> 0:03:16.760 Without creating panic? 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:19.840 My leadership style is to be real about it. 0:03:19.880 --> 0:03:24.000 I really don't like when leaders have made me feel 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:27.600 like they're infantilizing you. Of course, it doesn't mean everyone 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:31.720 needs to know everything at all times. But trust comes 0:03:31.800 --> 0:03:34.960 out of authenticity. And that's true for me as a 0:03:35.000 --> 0:03:38.200 marketer and how I build a relationship with consumers. It's 0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:40.320 also true for me as a leader and how I 0:03:40.360 --> 0:03:43.080 build relationships with teams and colleagues. 0:03:44.680 --> 0:03:46.920 Sounds like in some ways you might be looking at 0:03:46.920 --> 0:03:50.000 what's happening right now as an opportunity to cultivate that grit. 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:53.280 That is something that I don't think you're necessarily born with. 0:03:53.880 --> 0:03:57.400 And you have really proven to be very good at pivots. 0:03:57.680 --> 0:04:01.360 You've gone from beauty to re tale to fast food. 0:04:01.480 --> 0:04:03.120 I was thinking of what would be a fun like 0:04:03.240 --> 0:04:07.840 alliterated poetry to that, like from tool kids to touch 0:04:07.880 --> 0:04:13.560 ups to supreme Tacos, so a vast range of industries. 0:04:14.120 --> 0:04:18.599 I'm curious, though, is there one or a notable common 0:04:18.720 --> 0:04:22.840 theme that you have found stays true for marketing within 0:04:22.920 --> 0:04:23.720 these industries? 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:24.479 Oh? 0:04:24.560 --> 0:04:29.200 Definitely, And for me that's been the fun lesson in 0:04:29.240 --> 0:04:31.080 all of it that I now try to impart to 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:31.640 other people. 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:33.440 It was, in a way a self taught lesson. 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:35.960 I mean, it seemed crazy to people when I went 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:39.640 from luxury beauty to fast food, and it felt a 0:04:39.640 --> 0:04:42.919 little crazy to me. The interesting thing was I was 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:47.080 so preoccupied with what felt a lot scarier, which was 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:49.320 disrupting and uprooting my family. 0:04:49.480 --> 0:04:51.080 We were lifelong New Yorkers. 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:55.520 That was our consistency, and the move to Taco Bell 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:59.520 also meant a geographic move to California. So in some ways, 0:04:59.560 --> 0:05:02.520 because that that was so scary to me in terms 0:05:02.560 --> 0:05:05.400 of what it meant for my family, that I actually 0:05:05.440 --> 0:05:08.200 didn't fixate as much on oh my god, how am 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:08.920 I going to do this? 0:05:09.080 --> 0:05:10.680 Like what do I know about QSR? 0:05:10.880 --> 0:05:13.520 And the answer was I didn't know anything about QSR 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:18.440 going into it. So it was humbling, but also a 0:05:18.520 --> 0:05:22.720 learning opportunity of how do you come in as a 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:25.880 leader to an environment that's new and whether it's always 0:05:25.880 --> 0:05:29.880 as drastic as that, there's always newness, so you have 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:33.600 to be, even as a leader, humble, And I don't 0:05:33.600 --> 0:05:36.520 think that's a word that we associate often with leadership. 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:40.600 We think of leaders as you're there because you're expert 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:44.279 and you're confident. But I actually think it's the dichotomy 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:49.560 of humility and confidence that serves modern leaders well because 0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:52.360 the world is such that none of us are masters 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:56.000 of everything, none of us. And what the advantage of 0:05:56.040 --> 0:05:58.520 being an outsider, a newcomer is is it gives you 0:05:58.560 --> 0:06:01.560 this opportunity to look at us a situation with fresh 0:06:01.839 --> 0:06:05.640 eyes and see a situation differently than someone who's been 0:06:05.720 --> 0:06:08.560 in it for so long that you lose that sort 0:06:08.560 --> 0:06:11.760 of new b perspective. So I've said, that's a limited 0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:14.479 time only gift those fresh eyes. Once you're on the 0:06:14.480 --> 0:06:16.719 inside for a while, of course, you lose that and 0:06:16.760 --> 0:06:20.240 you trade it for more institutional knowledge. So I have 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:23.960 really tried to take these lessons that I've realized that 0:06:24.000 --> 0:06:28.240 I've cultivated for myself in making these leaps and thinking 0:06:28.240 --> 0:06:31.280 about what it means for all of us and what 0:06:31.279 --> 0:06:34.240 we can all take from it, And that's definitely one 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:34.840 of them. 0:06:35.480 --> 0:06:38.880 I really like what you're saying about giving yourself permission 0:06:39.080 --> 0:06:43.240 to be humble and admit what you don't know, because 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:47.039 I don't think that's always it's not allow, you know. 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:50.720 I hear about friends with skepticism. There's, oh, this new 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:53.560 leader's coming in. They don't know anything about financial services, 0:06:53.560 --> 0:06:56.120 they used to work in sports, as like, give them 0:06:56.120 --> 0:06:56.640 some time. 0:06:57.360 --> 0:06:58.480 What is it about our culture? 0:06:58.520 --> 0:07:00.560 I mean, it's a little bit of a challenge what 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:04.719 you're saying, to be able to demonstrate that you're still 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:07.880 learning even when you're at a position of top leadership. 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:11.600 Have you ever experienced pushback? Have you ever walked into 0:07:11.640 --> 0:07:13.400 a room where you're the newbie? 0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:14.160 Of course? 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:16.680 Yeah, And how do you navigate that because I think 0:07:16.680 --> 0:07:18.760 that it sounds great to be able to do that, 0:07:18.840 --> 0:07:22.480 but in practice can feel like there is resistance to that. 0:07:23.160 --> 0:07:28.040 Well, it's very hard to make blanket statements because things 0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:33.320 are situational and contextual. I can say all of these 0:07:33.320 --> 0:07:36.000 things and they're real and they're meaningful, and you wind 0:07:36.120 --> 0:07:39.600 up in an environment with a certain amount of toxicity 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:42.880 or bad people and none of these things apply. Sometimes 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:47.520 situations do not create the conditions for success, and that's 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:51.120 also a very hard lesson to learn and often a 0:07:51.160 --> 0:07:53.520 painful one. And if you put yourself out there enough, 0:07:53.560 --> 0:07:56.320 inevitably you might find yourself in one of those situations 0:07:56.320 --> 0:07:59.640 along the way, and that's where the resilience part comes in. 0:08:00.240 --> 0:08:04.360 But putting that kind of situation aside, I actually believe 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:08.080 that what we're talking about are kind of two sides 0:08:08.080 --> 0:08:11.000 of a coin of why do those things happen? Fear 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:16.280 and what's the antidote to that is transparency, which builds trust. 0:08:16.960 --> 0:08:19.800 So that to me, is the way to do it. Listen, 0:08:20.280 --> 0:08:24.040 if you are not confident as a leader, that's going 0:08:24.080 --> 0:08:27.280 to get exposed. So if you're only humble, if you're 0:08:27.320 --> 0:08:32.160 only asking questions, if you're not contributing, then obviously the 0:08:32.400 --> 0:08:35.920 equation is way way off. But if you're coming with 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:39.560 the right bigger picture thinking as a leader, or the vision, 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:43.680 the strategy, the ideas, the upside, but also saying, you know, 0:08:43.720 --> 0:08:45.640 explain to me how this works because I don't know 0:08:45.720 --> 0:08:48.840 or have we ever considered doing it that way or honestly, 0:08:48.960 --> 0:08:51.040 I don't know the answer to that. I'm going to 0:08:51.040 --> 0:08:53.240 get back to I'm going to learn it. I think 0:08:53.280 --> 0:09:00.359 that actually is confidence of building, not confidence diminishing, because 0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:04.199 that means when you do say you know something, I'm 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:06.679 going to believe you because you've shown that you're not 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:10.480 just trying to cover it up or posture, always have 0:09:10.559 --> 0:09:14.400 all the answers. That is where the interesting dynamic of 0:09:14.679 --> 0:09:18.880 where do we find trust and without trying to make 0:09:18.920 --> 0:09:22.400 a larger political statement, we've seen part of the erosion 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:27.160 in trust in civic and governmental leaders is we don't 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:30.160 really believe them most of the time. They might have 0:09:30.200 --> 0:09:33.080 the confidence, but do they have the trust. No, because 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:35.600 just because you're confident, if you're not credible, if you're 0:09:35.920 --> 0:09:37.880 not showing oh I don't know this or I do 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:40.000 know this, or we're going to find a way that 0:09:40.200 --> 0:09:43.920 extends to corporate and business trust too, and frankly trust 0:09:43.960 --> 0:09:46.640 and just we as human beings and how we interact 0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:48.000 in the world right. 0:09:48.080 --> 0:09:52.600 Honesty, transparency builds trust and for better or words, it's 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:56.440 something that is a standout these days, and doubling down 0:09:56.480 --> 0:09:58.040 on that can go a very long way. 0:09:58.080 --> 0:09:58.680 I want to get. 0:09:58.600 --> 0:10:02.360 Into your career understanding the inner workings of being a 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:06.000 chief marketing officer, Marissa. Maybe we could start with having 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:10.240 you just sort of explain how you understand your role, 0:10:10.440 --> 0:10:13.720 what you feel to be your biggest mandate in this 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:15.480 role as chief marketing officer. 0:10:16.440 --> 0:10:17.640 Yeah. What I love in my. 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:21.440 Current role is the title is chief customer and marketing officer, 0:10:21.640 --> 0:10:24.360 which look, titles are titles, so I only take so 0:10:24.480 --> 0:10:26.440 much meaning out of it. But what I do think 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:30.480 is important about that is it's a dueling of saying 0:10:30.559 --> 0:10:34.600 you actually are the leader who has to feel a 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:39.560 certain definitive ownership of the customer, of the consumer and 0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:43.720 understanding them and building the right relationship and of course 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:47.160 thinking about how that all ties to business goals. And 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:50.840 for me, that's the perfect confluence of call it marketing, 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:55.240 brand communications, all those functions which I feel are very 0:10:55.320 --> 0:10:59.320 much a part of my world all ties to making 0:10:59.360 --> 0:11:03.400 people feel and behave and do things in a way 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:08.920 that's favorable and building a relationship that enables that. So that, 0:11:09.280 --> 0:11:12.199 to me is a really nice way of talking about 0:11:12.200 --> 0:11:13.959 what marketing is. A lot of people are going to 0:11:14.000 --> 0:11:17.439 give you a definition that is based on the functional 0:11:17.520 --> 0:11:20.040 and the tactical parts of it, But when you strip 0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:25.960 it down, we're storytellers. We're storytellers, and we're telling in 0:11:26.000 --> 0:11:30.559 a way that makes you understand something differently, makes you informed, 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:35.000 makes you care, makes you excited, makes you feel something. 0:11:35.040 --> 0:11:37.400 I mean like, I feel like our world has become 0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:41.080 so jargony and so technical that having a competency and 0:11:41.160 --> 0:11:43.960 all that is critical to be able to do the 0:11:44.040 --> 0:11:48.040 craft of it well in the modern world. But stripping 0:11:48.080 --> 0:11:50.080 down to what is this role meant to do? That 0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:52.480 for me is as good of definition as Eddie. 0:11:53.200 --> 0:11:55.880 Did you decide that that you wanted to add customer 0:11:55.920 --> 0:11:58.080 into the title? Did that pre date you? How did 0:11:58.120 --> 0:11:59.080 that come about. 0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:05.520 Me? And as we were forming this role, especially in 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:10.280 the context of now having created this merger so it's 0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:13.400 a multi brand organization, and thinking about what that meant 0:12:14.280 --> 0:12:17.679 and I actually, to be honest, had some real dialogue 0:12:17.720 --> 0:12:21.719 with my boss, our CEO on what we should call it, 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:25.240 and I like the word growth, and that was probably 0:12:25.280 --> 0:12:28.520 the only other debate. And these are all tricky titles 0:12:28.520 --> 0:12:31.640 in the sense that does any one person own growth? 0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:35.000 And in a way the right answer should be everyone ow, 0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:39.160 it's that responsibility for growth. But the specificity and the 0:12:39.160 --> 0:12:42.680 appropriateness of customer was something we both agreed made a 0:12:42.679 --> 0:12:45.360 lot of sense and had been in that title before, 0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:48.959 so I quite like it. Thinking of the customer, what's 0:12:49.040 --> 0:12:52.199 working right now in terms of connecting with customers? Is 0:12:52.240 --> 0:12:54.120 there an era right now that we're in when it 0:12:54.160 --> 0:12:59.000 comes to the best sort of marketing strategies tactics. You say, 0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:02.000 we live in a very diverse world, but it's also 0:13:02.080 --> 0:13:04.880 very scattered, you know, in terms of connecting with the customer. 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:08.000 It used to be like three avenues. Now there's three hundred. 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:10.480 Exactly, tell me how you're doing it. 0:13:10.480 --> 0:13:11.520 It's a lot harder. 0:13:11.880 --> 0:13:16.560 Yeah, for me, it is about an orchestration of different things. 0:13:16.840 --> 0:13:19.120 If only were as simple as just do this one 0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:22.080 thing and that's how it works. Of course, it's not 0:13:22.280 --> 0:13:24.480 a new insight to say we're living in a world 0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:28.000 of complexity and fragmented attention and how you reach a 0:13:28.000 --> 0:13:32.360 customer is unquestionably so much harder than it's ever been before. 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:36.280 It's also more opportunities to do it. So you think 0:13:36.280 --> 0:13:39.559 about what you think of as traditional advertising channels. There's 0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:43.400 still an absolute role for those, but then brands have 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:48.400 become publishers too, in that you have a website, you 0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:50.760 have your own channels, you have emailed so you're publishing 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:52.760 to a content of an audience, and they call that 0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:56.200 owned marketing. And then there's the earn part, which I've 0:13:56.280 --> 0:14:00.760 always had maybe a disproportionate appreciation for, which is how 0:14:00.760 --> 0:14:03.640 do you get others doing your storytelling for you? And 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:07.200 the earlier definition of that was pr in terms of 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:10.480 thinking about media outlets writing about you, But now, of 0:14:10.559 --> 0:14:15.120 course social media has changed and expanded what that can be, 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:18.160 and for me, it's thinking about all of those things 0:14:18.200 --> 0:14:21.640 and then thinking about different customers and where they are 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:24.320 in their journey. Are they an existing customer, Well, you're 0:14:24.360 --> 0:14:26.920 going to be able to talk to that person very 0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:31.120 differently than someone who isn't your customer yet, So trying 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:33.880 to say this in a very simplified way, but again 0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:36.640 I actually think sometimes it's important to take the complex 0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:39.200 and make it simple so you can then figure out 0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:42.240 what you want to do about the different parts. Certainly 0:14:42.240 --> 0:14:44.920 from an industry standpoint, lots and lots and lots of 0:14:44.920 --> 0:14:49.920 focus not inappropriately so, on the use of technology and 0:14:49.960 --> 0:14:53.160 the ability to expand how we do that from a 0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:55.480 you know, do you farnwoshe get a different message than 0:14:55.520 --> 0:14:59.120 I get? And that's personalization, customization, and there's role for 0:14:59.200 --> 0:15:03.520 all of that. But it's also important to remember that 0:15:04.000 --> 0:15:07.440 those become tactics. But you still have to have the fundamentals, 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:10.520 a really good strategy, a really good product or proposition, 0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:14.440 and really good insights about what problem are you trying 0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:17.360 to solve, what opportunity you're trying to paint. So I 0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:20.040 like to get myself grounded in that, get my team 0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:22.760 grounded in that, and then hope that we have the 0:15:23.280 --> 0:15:26.800 expertise is and the curiosity to find new ways. 0:15:26.520 --> 0:15:27.280 To execute that. 0:15:28.720 --> 0:15:31.480 When we come back, Marissa opens up about the moments 0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:34.600 that didn't go as planned, what she learned from bets 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:38.560 that didn't pay off, how she balances risk with resilience, 0:15:38.920 --> 0:15:41.680 and why she's drawn to brands with something to prove. 0:15:42.520 --> 0:15:46.400 I always say, strategy is choices, which means it's being 0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:48.360 bold enough to say I'm going to do that, but 0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:51.160 I'm not going to do these other things, and that's hard. 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:53.960 Sometimes we all want to try to make everyone happy 0:15:54.000 --> 0:15:54.760 and do everything. 0:15:55.200 --> 0:16:06.240 We'll be right back. I'd love to. 0:16:06.240 --> 0:16:09.800 Highlight the Live Moss campaign at Taco Bell. You made 0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:12.520 it cool again. Hearing you talk about these strategies, I'd 0:16:12.560 --> 0:16:15.120 love for you to kind of bring those thoughts to 0:16:15.200 --> 0:16:20.400 life by walking us through that brand and the sort 0:16:20.400 --> 0:16:24.000 of reimagination of Taco Bell through that campaign. 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:27.000 What was your creative process, your strategic process? 0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:30.920 Well, Live mos specifically was a line that predated me, 0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:33.440 so I want to be clear that that was already there. 0:16:33.520 --> 0:16:36.280 And one of the things that I think good leaders 0:16:36.360 --> 0:16:38.600 do when you come into a new situation, and part 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:42.239 of the situation assessment is what do we want to maintain, 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:44.680 what do we have that's working, and then what needs 0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:45.360 to be changed. 0:16:45.440 --> 0:16:47.600 So job one is. 0:16:47.600 --> 0:16:52.200 Actually understanding what the problem or opportunity is and then 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:55.200 figuring out your game plan. And that's very much how 0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:58.560 I approach coming into Taco Bell again as an outsider 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:01.920 to the industry, big learning curve, but it also gave 0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:06.520 me the ability to just sort of assess it holistically 0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:09.159 and without baggage and really look at what was happening 0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:13.879 in culture. How are sensibilities around fast food? QSR is 0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:18.320 the industry term QSR quick service restaurants. So in QSR, 0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:20.560 what was going on? And you know what, here are 0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:23.320 some of the realities. It was an industry with negative 0:17:23.359 --> 0:17:25.520 transaction growth. Think about what that means. 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:26.800 That means the. 0:17:26.800 --> 0:17:29.840 Industry as a whole. Just to even play the game, 0:17:30.440 --> 0:17:32.639 you're fighting an uphill battle to get your sales to 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:36.160 be flat two year ago, and what does that mean? 0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:39.000 And this was a few years ago, so things change. 0:17:39.040 --> 0:17:41.000 But at the time, there was a little bit of 0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:42.880 you know, maybe I don't want to just eat burgers 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:45.160 and fries all the time, Like what you didn't feel 0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:48.200 necessarily proud going to eat fast food. 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:49.320 So you're looking at that. 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:51.919 But at the same time, it's brands and culture and 0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:53.600 the value proposition was important. 0:17:53.600 --> 0:17:54.560 But then saying, okay, well. 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:56.840 What about Taco Bell, Like there was a cult of 0:17:56.880 --> 0:18:01.320 the brand for sure, but then a lot of cracks 0:18:01.320 --> 0:18:03.680 in the armor in terms of being the butt of 0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:07.919 late night comedian jokes. As you know, the brand that 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:09.600 makes you go to the bathroom. I mean it's funny, 0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:12.440 but is that really funny? I mean that's not actually 0:18:12.480 --> 0:18:15.560 a good thing. Being able to call those things out 0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:19.680 with clarity and without judgment, just with clarity is to say, 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:23.359 let's look at this, because all that shapes where we 0:18:23.440 --> 0:18:25.920 need to go. And for me, it very much shaped 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:29.600 a belief that we had not just an opportunity, but 0:18:29.680 --> 0:18:33.439 a need to separate and elevate the brand from the 0:18:33.480 --> 0:18:38.480 rest of QSR. And there was already, in fairness, discussion 0:18:38.520 --> 0:18:41.840 about that and talking about Taco Bell as a category 0:18:41.840 --> 0:18:44.159 of one. I just want to be really respectful of 0:18:44.200 --> 0:18:47.280 the people that preceded me. A lot of great thinking already, 0:18:47.320 --> 0:18:50.200 but how to maybe do that, and how to put 0:18:50.240 --> 0:18:53.240 the brand in the context of being a culture centric 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:57.040 lifestyle brand and what that could open up in terms 0:18:57.040 --> 0:18:59.120 of new ways of thinking about the. 0:18:59.000 --> 0:19:01.000 Brand generallying revenue. 0:19:01.960 --> 0:19:05.840 Distinguishing us was very much what you know, I feel 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:08.280 is the imprint I was able to put on it, 0:19:08.320 --> 0:19:11.440 and it kind of pulminated in doing the Taco Bell Hotel, 0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:15.399 which was in a way this like really cool apotheosis 0:19:15.400 --> 0:19:18.040 of every part of the lifestyle and it sold out 0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:21.000 in two minutes and when you think about what that 0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:24.720 means in terms of brand that you take something so 0:19:24.840 --> 0:19:27.639 ubiquitous you can go a couple miles and for a 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:31.440 few dollars access Taco Bell. Let's be honest that people 0:19:32.240 --> 0:19:34.960 set up computer banks as if they were waiting to 0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:37.959 get access to the hottest concert tickets. I kid you 0:19:38.000 --> 0:19:41.800 not booked it and spent hundreds of dollars on airfare 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:44.800 and then staying at the hotel to access the experience. 0:19:45.160 --> 0:19:48.479 That is, to me the business case study in that, 0:19:48.760 --> 0:19:51.240 what does that mean and how does that spill over 0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:55.360 in terms of expanding that cult? And that's just one 0:19:55.440 --> 0:19:58.760 example of many, many things, but especially on a big 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:01.600 brand like that, it's never going to be one thing. 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:07.280 It's always going to be a comprehensive strategy that incorporates innovation, value, 0:20:07.920 --> 0:20:12.400 honoring what's core, coming up with new ways of generating 0:20:12.400 --> 0:20:17.600 cultural topspin, thinking differently about partnerships and collaborations. So the 0:20:17.680 --> 0:20:20.359 fun part was getting to figure all of that out 0:20:20.600 --> 0:20:22.600 and having an amazing team to do it with. 0:20:23.480 --> 0:20:25.919 I want to learn more about when you're thinking about 0:20:25.960 --> 0:20:29.440 pivoting a brand, there are investments you have to make, 0:20:29.480 --> 0:20:31.320 and some investments are not going to pay off when 0:20:31.320 --> 0:20:33.240 you're kind of just sitting down for the first time 0:20:33.400 --> 0:20:37.240 to assess the situation, what are the questions that you're 0:20:37.280 --> 0:20:40.560 asking to get closer to the solution. You identified some 0:20:40.600 --> 0:20:43.439 things already where like the media is portraying us in 0:20:43.520 --> 0:20:45.760 this way, we don't like it and we need to 0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:49.200 change that. And that's like one variable. But when you're 0:20:49.240 --> 0:20:53.440 looking at all the ways that you could potentially pivot, 0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:56.760 how do you narrow it down? I have multiple answers 0:20:56.760 --> 0:20:59.800 as to that. Maybe give me a case study again, 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:02.320 because I know it's very specific to a brand. 0:21:02.560 --> 0:21:04.439 Yeah, I'm giving you a little bit of one for 0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:07.159 Taco Bell that I then took that thinking with me 0:21:07.240 --> 0:21:09.760 is coming in and creating what I think of as 0:21:09.800 --> 0:21:13.840 an ultimate synthesis of all that stuff. Like you're just 0:21:13.880 --> 0:21:17.080 a sponge from the consumer insights to the marketplace, to 0:21:17.119 --> 0:21:20.160 your own observations, talking to employees, going in that case, 0:21:20.200 --> 0:21:20.960 to restaurant. 0:21:21.000 --> 0:21:24.159 So your job is to synthesize that. That to me 0:21:24.480 --> 0:21:25.480 is the first work. 0:21:25.880 --> 0:21:28.840 So one way of doing that and organizing that is 0:21:28.880 --> 0:21:31.800 to start big and get smaller. 0:21:31.880 --> 0:21:36.119 So big is like culture, like the world at large. 0:21:35.920 --> 0:21:38.040 And then you get a little more narrow and say Okay, 0:21:38.080 --> 0:21:41.640 what about specifically this industry or the category, what's happening there? 0:21:41.680 --> 0:21:44.959 And then you get a little narrower and say the consumer. 0:21:45.720 --> 0:21:48.280 And then at the end of the day, the business itself, 0:21:48.320 --> 0:21:50.880 the brand itself, what's happening there? And when you start 0:21:51.400 --> 0:21:57.520