WEBVTT - Shedding Shame at SoHo House Pt. 2 0:00:03.960 --> 0:00:07.880 While we get doctor Guardier America's psychologists, and there's a 0:00:07.920 --> 0:00:09.399 couple of things we want to talk to him about. 0:00:09.680 --> 0:00:13.200 But as we get him adjusted up here, we absolutely 0:00:13.240 --> 0:00:14.920 wanted to take questions from you guys. I think it's 0:00:14.920 --> 0:00:17.040 a small enough room that you all can shout them out. 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:21.000 So by all means, can we get doctor as we 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:23.080 get him up here, anybody got a question, you all 0:00:23.079 --> 0:00:26.159 toss it out. 0:00:27.720 --> 0:00:28.440 We need to talk. 0:00:29.800 --> 0:00:34.879 Oh, by goodness, yes, this happened in a in a 0:00:35.000 --> 0:00:40.640 crowded public place. People were all around us at the time, loud, 0:00:40.760 --> 0:00:43.520 pardon good time, and we were sitting there the only 0:00:44.040 --> 0:00:47.320 and I may say, hey, so are we going to talk? 0:00:48.880 --> 0:00:54.760 Why aren't you acknowledging what's happening? So do you just 0:00:54.840 --> 0:00:56.760 want to keep going the way we're going, because if 0:00:56.800 --> 0:01:00.000 you want to, we can and I will drop it 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:03.400 and we're done. If not, we need to have a 0:01:03.440 --> 0:01:07.120 conversation about what's happening and a way forward because we 0:01:07.160 --> 0:01:10.279 are working together every day. We're together every day together 0:01:10.280 --> 0:01:13.520 all the time. So either we address it and drop it, 0:01:14.240 --> 0:01:15.760 or address it and figure out what we're going to 0:01:15.760 --> 0:01:17.240 do about How wasn't this aggressive when I did? 0:01:17.319 --> 0:01:19.920 But but yeah, it was. It was a crowded room, 0:01:19.920 --> 0:01:22.960 which actually was probably best because I said, can I 0:01:23.000 --> 0:01:26.720 think about that? And then I think we talked about 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:29.679 it the next day, and then we kept talking about it. 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:33.280 But I was so shocked that he brought it up 0:01:33.360 --> 0:01:35.880 that you, like, I think you maybe had a little 0:01:35.920 --> 0:01:40.400 liquid courage, but I was not prepared for you to 0:01:40.600 --> 0:01:43.600 call me out. And that was a moment when I thought, oh, wow, 0:01:43.680 --> 0:01:45.560 we actually have to acknowledge this. 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:49.800 Anybody else, Gret, I'm curious, how are your colleagues that work? 0:01:50.280 --> 0:01:53.680 So we went back to work for two days after 0:01:54.880 --> 0:01:59.040 that tabloid that shall not be named release those photos 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:03.800 of as we pointed out, just discovering us in a 0:02:03.840 --> 0:02:07.480 private relationship. They did not catch us cheating. That was 0:02:07.760 --> 0:02:11.800 not what happened. They found us in our private relationship. 0:02:12.040 --> 0:02:14.799 But when we came back for those two days, we 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:19.480 were surrounded with support. My dressing room was full of 0:02:19.720 --> 0:02:21.760 all of our colleagues. 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:24.320 Some of it fake, some of it fake absolutely, some 0:02:24.400 --> 0:02:25.320 of it was bs. 0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:28.960 But once it was clear that we weren't coming back, 0:02:30.919 --> 0:02:33.160 I never heard from most people again. 0:02:35.080 --> 0:02:38.280 Yeah, and we get that to a certain degree, right, 0:02:38.480 --> 0:02:40.520 everybody's trying to hold onto their job. They don't want 0:02:40.560 --> 0:02:42.280 to be seen as being an ally of the two 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:45.160 people that ABC News doesn't like, and we get it 0:02:45.160 --> 0:02:50.519 to a certain degree. And for us, even we stayed 0:02:50.560 --> 0:02:53.000 away from some of our former colleagues because we were 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:55.560 worried about them. I don't think you would mind us 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:58.880 saying this. We had lunch with Stray what last week 0:02:59.160 --> 0:03:02.360 before last last week. You wouldn't believe the effort we 0:03:02.440 --> 0:03:05.520 put into it with straight hand, just that Okay, you 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:07.840 arrive at this time and then we'll come in and 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:10.440 you can come in after. And we sat down with 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:12.960 him and we were being a politic dude wish sar 0:03:13.120 --> 0:03:16.080 and he said, you idiots stop, just you have to 0:03:16.160 --> 0:03:18.480 stop being that way and thinking that way that we 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:24.440 are trying to protect you straight hand from us. That 0:03:24.600 --> 0:03:26.239 is the shame I'm talking about with. This is a 0:03:26.280 --> 0:03:28.800 guy we've been very close to for ten years now, 0:03:29.160 --> 0:03:34.640 and even we didn't want to get whatever our stank 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:38.480 is on him for some reason, and we struggled to 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:41.360 get out of that mindset. But friends like that do help, 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:42.640 and time helps. 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:46.320 I used to say, it's not like I murdered someone, 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:50.200 but I definitely felt like that's how it seemed if 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:52.840 you read comments anywhere from all of these articles. I 0:03:52.920 --> 0:03:55.880 will say when we did walk down the street, which 0:03:55.920 --> 0:04:00.240 we didn't often, we got a lot of people yelling support, 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:02.800 like we support you, we love you. Love is love, 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:06.080 Like I want to definitely say that we like. No 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:08.440 one came up and said anything horrible to our faces. 0:04:08.760 --> 0:04:11.160 But it was just all the comments and all the 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:14.360 commentary and all the headlines. It just it weighs you 0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:16.920 down to the point where you think I'm the worst 0:04:16.960 --> 0:04:18.760 person in the world, and you do feel like you've 0:04:18.800 --> 0:04:22.840 committed a crime. It's bizarre. But yes, I mean, I 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:26.440 co hosted twenty twenty. I dealt in death and destruction, 0:04:27.240 --> 0:04:29.880 you know, and so yes, it was strange to me 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:35.440 to suddenly, you know, be this just hated horrible person 0:04:35.560 --> 0:04:39.600 for loving someone. It was frustrating too, because the narrative 0:04:39.680 --> 0:04:43.120 was not true, and so it was frustrating. 0:04:42.640 --> 0:04:44.800 We lost the narrative off the top. Is the problem, Yeah, 0:04:44.920 --> 0:04:47.599 is that once people were told what it was and 0:04:47.640 --> 0:04:49.400 we didn't come out and make a statement, even though 0:04:49.400 --> 0:04:52.920 we drafted statements that day that ABC News said, uh right, 0:04:52.960 --> 0:04:55.320 we were encouraged to write these statements, and we had 0:04:55.360 --> 0:04:57.800 statements to put out explaining much of the things we 0:04:57.800 --> 0:05:02.120 said tonight. Once we lost that ability to speak and 0:05:02.200 --> 0:05:05.920 to control the narrative, it was done. And in social 0:05:05.960 --> 0:05:10.240 media age, nothing we could do. 0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:12.200 Perception becomes reality. 0:05:12.320 --> 0:05:15.320 And it's simple as that. I see hands going up now, doctor, 0:05:15.560 --> 0:05:18.440 doctor Gourdia, come on and go ahead and have a seat. 0:05:18.480 --> 0:05:20.719 You'll know, doctor, this is doctor Jeff Gardier here. He's 0:05:20.720 --> 0:05:23.800 gonna help us. So I see a lot of hands 0:05:23.839 --> 0:05:24.560 going up you all. 0:05:24.680 --> 0:05:28.040 So, yeah, I wanted to ask you made the you 0:05:28.120 --> 0:05:32.960 mentioned controlling the narrative. Did either of you ever consider 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:35.200 going to ABC. 0:05:35.600 --> 0:05:37.000 Before the photos room? 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:37.360 Yes? 0:05:38.080 --> 0:05:39.440 And okay, how did that go? 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:42.880 We decided not to. We were We've said this, I 0:05:42.880 --> 0:05:44.920 think we've already said this publicly, but we were threatened. 0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:49.120 We were directly threatened that if we didn't do what 0:05:49.400 --> 0:05:54.000 was being demanded of us, that we were going to 0:05:54.080 --> 0:05:59.559 be outed. We were threatened, and two days after that threat, 0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:05.680 photographers were seretitiously following us. So that is what happens now. 0:06:05.839 --> 0:06:08.480 Even before I think even before that threat or certainly 0:06:08.520 --> 0:06:10.800 after it, we said, you know what, let's just go 0:06:10.880 --> 0:06:14.160 give ABC News the PR department. A guy, a friend 0:06:14.160 --> 0:06:16.159 of ours, there who we were close to, just the 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:19.560 heads up to say, hey, we are going through divorce proceedings, 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:22.640 this is what happened, and we're dating now and leave 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:24.760 it at that. We we absolutely. 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:26.440 Had those We almost did. I mean in November, I 0:06:26.520 --> 0:06:29.240 believe it was maybe the week before the pictures. We 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:32.680 had a long discussion back and forth about whether or 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:34.000 not we should just give them a heads up. And 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:36.880 what we decided was, let's just wait till after the 0:06:36.880 --> 0:06:39.040 first of the year, so let's get through the holidays 0:06:39.640 --> 0:06:43.200 and in January we will go and explain to them 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:43.960 what's happening. 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:47.000 Even we talked to an executive. I love this line, 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:50.800 he said, he said, So I'm not saying we saying this. 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:57.039 He said, ABC News. They're idiots. All they have to 0:06:57.080 --> 0:06:59.680 do is take you guys, now, move you to the 0:07:00.120 --> 0:07:05.000 entertainment side and print money, is actually what he said. 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:07.680 But we lost a net. Look, we worked at a 0:07:07.839 --> 0:07:09.920 this was a company. This is a network, a network 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:16.600 owned by a company Disney. That I mean, it's iconic, 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:23.720 right image is a cute little mouse Disney. And that 0:07:23.840 --> 0:07:26.880 cute little mouse has been with the same girl mouse 0:07:26.880 --> 0:07:32.880 for one hundred years. For divorces. That ain't work. 0:07:33.000 --> 0:07:36.320 A follow up question to that piece about what two 0:07:36.320 --> 0:07:38.320 to three years ago, when you all were in that happy, 0:07:38.360 --> 0:07:41.600 healthy place in your careers and you're still very early 0:07:41.720 --> 0:07:44.960 stage in both of your professional careers. I would imagine 0:07:45.000 --> 0:07:48.200 that you have milestones, professional milestones, goals that were in 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:50.960 your line of sight, and knowing that there are only 0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:55.560 such limited, high visibility platforms that exist in the world 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:58.160 that you are in, do you still believe that those 0:07:58.200 --> 0:07:59.720 goals are achievable for you? 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:02.600 Are they still in cable or network news? 0:08:02.680 --> 0:08:07.080 They've changed. Absolutely. We sit here now with the idea 0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:09.560 of going back to network news and doing that. It 0:08:09.880 --> 0:08:13.320 doesn't appeal to us in the least bit. Did I mention? 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:17.160 Those jobs almost killed us, literally almost killed us. So 0:08:17.200 --> 0:08:21.040 we think we're doing great, but we talk about a 0:08:21.160 --> 0:08:24.120 cost of us being together. We don't ever talk about 0:08:24.120 --> 0:08:27.680 the cost of being in those gigs in the first place. Oh, 0:08:27.720 --> 0:08:30.880 look at what you guys lost. You had these great Yeah, 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:34.800 I should have maybe given that gig up a long 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:35.320 time ago. 0:08:37.200 --> 0:08:40.080 Agreed, I have zero desire to go back to network 0:08:40.160 --> 0:08:45.120 news and the grind. And you know, we know how 0:08:45.160 --> 0:08:47.680 the sausage is made, and it got more and more 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:53.160 frustrating to me the more I got to a higher 0:08:53.240 --> 0:08:56.240 level and I saw it. Look media bias. It does 0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:59.280 not exist with how we tell stories as much as 0:08:59.320 --> 0:09:02.480 it is the story we don't tell. And I was 0:09:02.600 --> 0:09:05.400 very frustrated and I had moments where I wanted to 0:09:05.480 --> 0:09:08.920 leave before any of this happened, just frustration with the industry. 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:12.840 It is a business, so I wanted to be a journalist, 0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:16.480 and sometimes those two don't don't work well together. So 0:09:17.400 --> 0:09:19.240 as hard as it was to lose our jobs, I 0:09:19.240 --> 0:09:22.560 mean like they were lucrative and they were fairly easy, 0:09:22.679 --> 0:09:24.280 like we could do it in our sleep. It was 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:27.839 we were we were printing money, but it wasn't challenging, 0:09:28.000 --> 0:09:30.440 and it wasn't really what I wanted to do. So 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:33.280 we're hoping and we're hopeful that we can actually start 0:09:33.320 --> 0:09:36.520 doing things we really want to do. So trying to 0:09:36.520 --> 0:09:38.679 look at it as an opportunity now. And because we 0:09:38.720 --> 0:09:41.199 never would have left those jobs, Like don't like we 0:09:41.240 --> 0:09:45.120 would have never left, we would have stayed. And so 0:09:45.200 --> 0:09:47.200 now we have to look at this as the street 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:50.480 we were supposed to be on, and we're gonna we're 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:55.240 gonna walk down it and see what happens. 0:09:53.120 --> 0:10:04.120 And doctor guard. Dear, can I ask we love it. 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:06.120 I cannot say it enough how much we love his brother. 0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:15.959 But this love you love you Black when when you 0:10:16.240 --> 0:10:19.400 can speak on us, sure, But for everybody else in 0:10:19.440 --> 0:10:24.400 this room, the idea of that private shame causing you 0:10:24.440 --> 0:10:27.800 to behave in ways that aren't really who you are. 0:10:29.240 --> 0:10:33.679 So we grow up with this fairy tale of your 0:10:33.720 --> 0:10:38.480 life is really about pairing up with someone or you're 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:43.800 not successful. And so we achieve all these incredible things, 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:49.839 but it's never enough until we feel that we're in 0:10:49.880 --> 0:10:53.720 that romance or in that family or that pairing that 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:57.760 really is the cherry on top, and it comes in time. 0:10:58.600 --> 0:11:02.880 But when we're in relationships, and I would think every 0:11:02.920 --> 0:11:06.120 single one of us have been in relationships that haven't 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:07.119 worked out. 0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:09.880 And I don't say so much failure. 0:11:09.520 --> 0:11:13.480 Because I'm a psychologist and I'm a positive thinker, but 0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:16.360 when they don't work out, it's the shame that we're 0:11:16.400 --> 0:11:20.360 not being successful at everything that we've learned, all the 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:24.800 pairing fantasies that we've learned as part of our culture 0:11:24.880 --> 0:11:28.480 here in America, in the world, but especially in America. 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:32.280 So we live with a lot of that shame that 0:11:32.320 --> 0:11:35.520 it's not working out, that there's nothing we can do 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:39.920 to really change that relationship, that we've failed at this thing, 0:11:40.400 --> 0:11:43.680 and our friends will look at us in a different way, 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:46.240 and we have to get new friends and possibly new 0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:47.360 family and so on. 0:11:47.840 --> 0:11:49.400 So that shame is very real. 0:11:49.920 --> 0:11:51.760 But I think in a lot of ways it plays 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:56.199 into a lot of the criticisms that you all experienced, 0:11:56.320 --> 0:11:59.400 because one thing is we have to look at what 0:11:59.600 --> 0:12:02.200 COVID it has done to the world, and what it's 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:09.960 done to America. We have unprecedented anxiety depression PTSD, and 0:12:10.040 --> 0:12:12.920 so a lot of what I saw and I looked 0:12:12.920 --> 0:12:15.079 at it, even though we've known each other for many, 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:19.920 many years, I looked at it psychologically, Why are they 0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:23.480 attacking these two people who are just trying to live 0:12:23.520 --> 0:12:28.520 their lives, who, according to many people, made these mistakes 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:31.040 and so on. And they went from this you know 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:36.520 this most loved you know TV pairing as co anchors 0:12:36.960 --> 0:12:42.079 to you know, all these tabloid stories. And I think 0:12:42.120 --> 0:12:43.920 a lot of it had to do with the fact 0:12:44.000 --> 0:12:49.480 that we're all emotionally ill still from COVID, and we 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:54.400 were looking to project a lot of the anger and 0:12:54.440 --> 0:13:00.040 the shame and a lot of the grieving that we 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:03.440 had as part of COVID, as part of what we're 0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:08.160 going through coming through COVID. And I think you all 0:13:08.200 --> 0:13:10.800 see this. And I'm not going to get into the politics, 0:13:11.240 --> 0:13:15.600 but with the tribal politics, the hate that's out there, 0:13:16.000 --> 0:13:20.360 the venom that's out there, it's not fashionable to say 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:23.600 I'm sorry. And you all have said I'm sorry, and 0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:26.400 you all have said how you're grateful, which is an 0:13:26.440 --> 0:13:30.920 amazing catharsist, this amazing walk that you're taking. And so 0:13:31.400 --> 0:13:35.840 a lot of what we see is with this splitting 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:42.720 we're okay, you're bad, projection I'm okay, you're bad. I 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:46.480 think a lot of this played into what you were 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:50.840 going through. So we have to acknowledge and take responsibility 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:55.640 for our own shame instead of projecting it onto other people. 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:58.240 Number one and number two, we have to do the 0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:03.400 hard work of realizing sometimes relationships don't work out, and 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:07.679 it's really important for us to learn as to what 0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:10.480 it is that we can all do better instead of 0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:15.000 pointing fingers at one person or just ourselves, but taking 0:14:15.040 --> 0:14:19.760 the responsibility together of learning and going on to more 0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:25.240 positive relationships. And I'll just end by saying, yes, I 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:29.800 hear you thinking, ABC News because you are on this 0:14:30.200 --> 0:14:37.680 very very fascinating journey of pain and love and still 0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:40.920 some shame. I think it still takes time to work 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:46.920 through that. But you're also helping so many other people 0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:51.800 who experience life and experience that shame. 0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:52.880 And so. 0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:57.520 These two folks need a round of applause y'all for 0:14:58.360 --> 0:14:59.960 the incredible work that they're doing. 0:15:02.080 --> 0:15:04.040 Thank you, Jeff, Thank you doctor Guardier. I think we 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:08.240 have a question back here, Hi, Hi Amy, Hi TJ. 0:15:09.560 --> 0:15:13.760 You know me, we did conversation together with black men 0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:18.280 and you facilitated that. Yeah, And I find it really 0:15:18.320 --> 0:15:23.120 interesting that this is kind of like reflecting in a 0:15:23.160 --> 0:15:27.720 weird way, like the experience I had before getting on 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:31.640 set where I was like, oh, like I am like 0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:35.240 this like queer person who's coming in talking about my 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:39.000 black maleness, and they're like, don't go this far, because like, 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:41.720 if you go this far, that's not what like Disney 0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:44.080 wants to hear, That's not what ABC wants to hear. 0:15:44.800 --> 0:15:47.040 But I again, I just want to thank you because 0:15:47.080 --> 0:15:49.840 you allowed me to like push those things in a 0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:52.840 space that probably wouldn't allow me to do. 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:56.040 So that is that is one of the greatest compliments, right, 0:15:56.080 --> 0:15:59.960 I remember that, but that you took something away right 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:01.800 in that moment. I didn't know if I'd ever see 0:16:01.800 --> 0:16:05.440 you again. That is the greatest compliment to hear that 0:16:05.560 --> 0:16:08.400 in that moment I made you that kind of not 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:11.560 something I thought I wasn't trying to impress, but my 0:16:11.560 --> 0:16:15.560 brother that that that that feels great to have you 0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:16.960 stand up here and say that to me. 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:19.560 And I guess, like my question is, it's like it 0:16:19.640 --> 0:16:23.200 seems like there's a lot of like same similarities between 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:28.200 like coming out and like shame and like depression and 0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:33.800 suicide and like also like new familial like structures. And 0:16:33.840 --> 0:16:36.480 I'm like here, I'm like here with like this like 0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:38.360 white man, that's my date. 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:42.880 And I'm like, oh, white man, Like does white man 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:44.560 have a name? And we're just gonna go with white 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:48.080 white man Leodo. 0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:52.120 His name is Leto, all right. But I'm like, oh 0:16:52.160 --> 0:16:54.840 my god, Like if my dad, if I told my 0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:57.160 dad this when I was like sixteen, he'd be like, 0:16:57.600 --> 0:16:59.720 you've done like ruined the whole family line. 0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:02.120 You've married. You're like you're going to like marry a 0:17:02.160 --> 0:17:03.280 white man. That's crazy. 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:07.439 But it's like, what do you guys feel like you 0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:11.600 guys have like some sort of like alignment to kind 0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:14.199 of like a queer experience. Have you been able to 0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:18.280 talk to your like queer and LGBTQ like family or 0:17:18.280 --> 0:17:22.200 friends about how there is kind of that. 0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:25.760 That's cool, Well, I have my two queer friends right here, 0:17:25.960 --> 0:17:29.920 Joe and Preston right love that I called you out. 0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:33.240 I'm sure, But you know, I think anytime you feel 0:17:33.280 --> 0:17:36.360 like you're an outlier or you're not like the others, 0:17:36.480 --> 0:17:38.800 or other people can look at you and say you're bad, 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:42.400 you're wrong, I think there is a shared experience, for sure. 0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:44.840 I don't. We haven't had that conversation, have we. I mean, 0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:48.480 it's I'm not even getting any feedback from you, Joe 0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:54.439 at all. Okay, Preston saying no, but I do. I do. 0:17:54.640 --> 0:17:56.720 We appreciate that I hadn't thought about it like that, 0:17:57.119 --> 0:17:59.720 but I love to hear that there's a connection there, 0:17:59.760 --> 0:18:04.240 because because anytime you feel like your relationship is viewed 0:18:04.640 --> 0:18:08.800 to be morally wrong, there is a shared connection. So 0:18:08.840 --> 0:18:11.680 we appreciate that, and I hadn't thought of it that way. 0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:16.600 But I'm happy that in some way maybe you feel 0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:20.800 seen or heard or just like you're not alone, because 0:18:21.960 --> 0:18:26.240 not all relationships are put on a pedestal and appreciated 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:29.119 or even welcomed. So and I really hadn't thought about that. 0:18:29.160 --> 0:18:31.760 And again, we for a while thought we were the 0:18:31.800 --> 0:18:35.240 only two people in America who ever experienced a divorce. 0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:37.960 Like we felt that way, like we were maage to 0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:41.359 feel like we were the only ones who had a 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:45.280 failed marriage and then started dating again. But we to 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:48.400 your point there, and again all this talked about everybody's 0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:51.320 throwing barbs at you online on social media and whatnot. 0:18:51.560 --> 0:18:54.080 You wouldn't believe the number of people that have come 0:18:54.160 --> 0:18:56.720 up to us and said, who you think you guys? 0:18:57.040 --> 0:19:00.600 You should hear my story, like who can relate to 0:19:01.000 --> 0:19:06.960 life relationships, love, marriage, being complicated, being messy. It's not 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:09.680 a perfect package. But again, when you work where we worked, 0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:13.040 you got to have the perfect package there. It has 0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:18.600 to look perfect. We know it's not perfect, but oh, 0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:21.920 I used to say this all the time. The network 0:19:21.920 --> 0:19:26.719 would never tell us they expect us to be perfect. 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:31.000 But you better make damn sure nobody ever finds out 0:19:31.119 --> 0:19:38.040 just how imperfect you are. That got us. Yeah, and 0:19:38.119 --> 0:19:40.760 doctor GARDI does that make I haven't thought about it 0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:42.879 that way? Before does this, But does that make sense 0:19:42.920 --> 0:19:46.320 the parallels that were just described. 0:19:46.400 --> 0:19:51.200 Yeah, I think I think so. I mean, certainly feeling alone, 0:19:52.320 --> 0:19:55.920 feeling like you may not you were fortunate and that 0:19:56.280 --> 0:20:00.119 you had the support of family. But as we know, 0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:06.000 many of our brothers and sisters, and you know, our 0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:12.320 trans people in the LGBTQ I plus community feel very 0:20:12.400 --> 0:20:17.080 much alone. That's why suicide is the third leading cause 0:20:17.720 --> 0:20:22.800 of death in the LGBTQ community. And I was concerned. 0:20:24.920 --> 0:20:27.960 I'm very concerned as to the lack of support that 0:20:28.000 --> 0:20:33.960 we see to that community, to our community. But I'm 0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:36.480 also and I was also concerned, and I said this 0:20:37.359 --> 0:20:39.600 to the two of you on one of the podcasts. 0:20:40.000 --> 0:20:42.480 I was concerned about the two of you in that, 0:20:42.920 --> 0:20:45.720 you know, keeping that stiff upper lip and you know, 0:20:45.800 --> 0:20:48.480 we're getting through this, and you know, we're going to 0:20:48.560 --> 0:20:51.280 be strong, and we're gonna robot, We're. 0:20:51.160 --> 0:20:51.760 Gonna do this. 0:20:52.000 --> 0:20:56.040 And and I said, you guys are really hurting you guys, 0:20:56.200 --> 0:20:59.840 you guys are in pain. You know, there's a lot 0:20:59.920 --> 0:21:03.159 of embarrassment that you all felt and that was projected 0:21:03.200 --> 0:21:08.159 onto you. And it was important that you talk about 0:21:08.160 --> 0:21:14.600 the experience and dissect the experience and emote the experience together. 0:21:15.320 --> 0:21:19.159 And so every time you have one of these talks, 0:21:20.359 --> 0:21:26.520 I keep hearing an invisible psychologist, not necessarily this one. 0:21:26.640 --> 0:21:29.680 I'm invisible at home, don't get me started, but an 0:21:29.680 --> 0:21:36.159 invisible psychologist saying yes, yes, say more about that, be 0:21:36.280 --> 0:21:40.280 able to support one another, talk about that pain. The 0:21:40.320 --> 0:21:44.800 catharsis is so important, and it's not about solving a problem. 0:21:45.119 --> 0:21:47.760 It's not about putting a bow on it or a 0:21:47.880 --> 0:21:51.399 cherry on top, but it's about letting out that pain. 0:21:51.880 --> 0:21:54.800 And that's what you do each and every time. And 0:21:55.080 --> 0:21:59.280 this thing about being that perfect you know, TV couple, 0:21:59.359 --> 0:22:02.000 you better be the perfect TV couple. I think you're 0:22:02.040 --> 0:22:04.840 giving a new definition that you better be a real 0:22:05.440 --> 0:22:08.960 person on TV because that's what we need, not what 0:22:08.960 --> 0:22:14.200 we're seeing on social media where everyone pretends as right, 0:22:14.720 --> 0:22:17.720 you know, to be that person, because it's not authentic. 0:22:18.240 --> 0:22:22.399 It's about living authentic lives. And so this is something 0:22:22.440 --> 0:22:25.720 that I think we all need to learn the importance 0:22:25.760 --> 0:22:29.760 of being authentic because if you're not, that's what leads 0:22:30.400 --> 0:22:37.320 to illness, leads to strokes, heart attacks, Depression, anxiety can 0:22:37.440 --> 0:22:42.040 contribute and put one at risk for other illnesses, including cancer, 0:22:42.119 --> 0:22:45.639 and so on, which we know may be genetic environmental also, 0:22:46.440 --> 0:22:50.880 but it's important that you're authentic in order to be healthy. 0:22:51.240 --> 0:22:52.760 So continue to be authentic. 0:22:52.840 --> 0:22:55.600 Thank you. This one thing I don't want people to. 0:22:55.640 --> 0:23:02.240 Miss here is the friendship that will building over the years. 0:23:03.040 --> 0:23:05.800 And I can tell you sure you know you can 0:23:05.840 --> 0:23:10.439 meet someone one night stand or you know you you 0:23:10.440 --> 0:23:14.119 know online dating, you meet someone very quickly, you get married. 0:23:14.400 --> 0:23:17.439 I've seen these marriages last for years and years. It 0:23:17.520 --> 0:23:21.840 happens in a different way for everyone, but one of 0:23:21.880 --> 0:23:26.200 the tried and true formulas, and you know this too, 0:23:27.119 --> 0:23:34.600 of a strong, strong, strong relationship is building that friendship, 0:23:35.800 --> 0:23:39.200 getting to know each other in a way where sex 0:23:39.280 --> 0:23:42.160 does not get in the way of knowing one another, 0:23:43.359 --> 0:23:48.280 understanding each other's vulnerabilities, being there for one another, and 0:23:48.440 --> 0:23:53.359 taking the time to truly know one another. 0:23:55.240 --> 0:23:56.240 And that's important. 0:23:56.280 --> 0:23:56.600 Thank you. 0:24:02.400 --> 0:24:05.960 Hey friends, I'm Jessica Capshaw and this is Kamila Luddington 0:24:06.200 --> 0:24:08.720 and we have a new podcast, call It What It Is. 0:24:09.320 --> 0:24:12.520 You may know us from Gracelawn Memorial, but did you 0:24:12.680 --> 0:24:16.280 know that we are actually besties in real life. 0:24:16.080 --> 0:24:18.679 And as all besties do, we navigate the highs and 0:24:18.720 --> 0:24:21.120 lows of life together. When one of us sends out 0:24:21.119 --> 0:24:24.240