1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,600 Speaker 1: February two thousand four, Maura Murray empties her bank account, 2 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:08,520 Speaker 1: drives four hours from school, crashes her car, and vanishes. 3 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: Joined the search as an investigative reporter, uncovers new evidence, 4 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: interrogates new witnesses, traces down new leads in this riveting 5 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 1: new investigative series, The Disappearance of Maura Murray Saturday's seven 6 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: sixth Central and nine eight Central on Oxygen, the new 7 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: network for Crime, Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius 8 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:42,840 Speaker 1: XM Triumph Channel one thirty two. Vanessa McCormick, a school 9 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:46,559 Speaker 1: teacher in Lynn, found strangled and stabbed inside their home 10 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: and Revere. According to the victims calendar last Saturday, she 11 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 1: planned to go work out at the gym and then 12 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 1: go apple picking instead. Prosecutor say she was murdered. She 13 00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 1: had both slash and stab wounds on her neck. Investigators 14 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 1: tell us there were no signs of forced entry, but 15 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 1: a grieving husband. Her parents couldn't reach her, and he 16 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: was telling them that he couldn't reach her either. It 17 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 1: was her husband who called police. When the police got there, 18 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 1: the place smelled very strongly of bleach. A gorgeous young 19 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 1: second grade teacher has been found dead in her Boston home. 20 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 1: Police say her body were signs of extensive trauma, but 21 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 1: we're not revealing exactly how she died. This married mother 22 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 1: of one had worked as a second grade teacher for 23 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 1: some time. Her body was found after police respond to 24 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:45,399 Speaker 1: a nine one one call. If you could see this woman, 25 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 1: she's absolutely beautiful. Why would anyone destroy her in such 26 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 1: a vicious way? I mayn't see grace. This is Crime Stories. 27 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. We want answers in 28 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: the brutal death of this young woman, Vanessa McCormick, just 29 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: thirty years old, with her life in front of her. 30 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 1: Police investigating the death of this married second great teacher 31 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 1: after she's found inside her Boston home with trauma to 32 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:16,920 Speaker 1: her body. She was found unresponsive inside her Revere home 33 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 1: after a nine one one call. Now joining me right 34 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 1: now is Ed Payne. Crime Stories investigative reporter Dr Bethany Marshall, 35 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:30,800 Speaker 1: psychoanalysts joining us out of l A and forensics expert 36 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: not across the country, Karen Smith. Ed Payne, what do 37 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:40,519 Speaker 1: we know about Revere, the town where she was murdered? Well, 38 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:42,919 Speaker 1: you know, it's just a suburb, just a little bit 39 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 1: north of Boston, pretty middle class, pretty standard. You know, 40 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: it's a town you might just kind of pass by, 41 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 1: you know, if you're driving through the Boston area, but 42 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 1: you know, it wouldn't really bring a lot of attention. Yeah, 43 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 1: it's my understanding, a very quiet suburb, kind of a 44 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:02,800 Speaker 1: bedroom community for Boston. It's a little bit of a commute, 45 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:06,520 Speaker 1: but a lot of people looking for, you know, a 46 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 1: more sedate and neighborhoodie kind of life, a suburban life, 47 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 1: will go to Revere and they drive into the city. 48 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:17,960 Speaker 1: Dr Bethany Marshall psycho and was joining us. Have you 49 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 1: seen that gorgeous photo of her in her wedding dress? 50 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:25,800 Speaker 1: She looks like a Barbie dolls those Yeah, it's one 51 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 1: of those mermaid dresses. I remember when I was a 52 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 1: little talk to Bethany, we would have paper dolls. Okay, wait, 53 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: we coundnot afford the actual dolls. I had one Barbie 54 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 1: doll which I immediately tore the head off. So I 55 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 1: had the paper dolls and they would all I didn't 56 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: know what they would call. Then the mermaid dress that 57 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 1: fits tight like straplests or something down to your knees 58 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 1: and then it swooshes out that is her wedding dress. 59 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 1: And she's got this huge bouquet of white roses interspersed 60 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: with pale pink. I'm just looking at it, drop pearl 61 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 1: earrings in a long hail, beautiful smile. Did you see 62 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 1: this photo of her? Dr Bethany You not only that, 63 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 1: I saw multiple photos of her, and you know there 64 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 1: were there were two categories of photos. One one on 65 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 1: there were a couple with her arms around her husband, 66 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: and the others were selfies. And in each selfie she 67 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 1: looked so beautiful. Um she she looked happy. It's like 68 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 1: she wanted to memorialize where she was. You know, You're right. 69 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:25,280 Speaker 1: In every photo she and her husband look so in love. 70 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 1: And what I'm getting at is is the perfect life 71 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 1: They've got. This beautiful child, beautiful home, beautiful everything, a 72 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: dream job working at William P. Connery Elementary School. She 73 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:41,040 Speaker 1: had been working there for five years. The school community 74 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 1: is devastated over her death. They gave a statement, Uh, 75 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:47,919 Speaker 1: it's from Dr Mary Deal. Vanessa taught at Connery for 76 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 1: five years and was in our district seven years. She 77 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 1: was talented, dedicated, a passionate educator, loyal kind, a compassionate 78 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:02,839 Speaker 1: friend and colleague. Our school community is heartbroken. She was 79 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: loved by students, parents and colleagues, and involved in every 80 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:11,479 Speaker 1: aspect of the school. A great friend to everyone. She 81 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:15,479 Speaker 1: just seems so beloved. So Ed Payne joining us Crime 82 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:19,920 Speaker 1: Stories investigative reporter Dr Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, and Karen Smith 83 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 1: forensics expert. Karen what evidence will they be looking for? 84 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:28,159 Speaker 1: What do you know about? What if anything they found 85 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 1: at the scene. At first, they weren't saying who may 86 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 1: have done this? An intruder? They weren't sure, so they 87 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 1: did a thorough investigation, and unfortunately they found that she 88 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 1: had suffered from a number of different traumas and that 89 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 1: just led them down a rabbit hole about who may 90 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: have perpetrated this crime. It's it's a secure, quaint town, 91 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 1: and the police and investigators were left with their head 92 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: scratching for for quite some time. For those of you 93 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:58,159 Speaker 1: just joining us, a second grade teacher, gorgeous brunette with 94 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 1: the world in front of her, and a little child 95 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:04,159 Speaker 1: found dead in her own home. The State's Office of 96 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: the Chief a Medical Examiner has made preliminary findings that 97 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 1: she suffered blunt force injury to the head, sharp force 98 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:19,160 Speaker 1: injuries to the neck, and asphyxiation. Quote. Evidence suggests the 99 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 1: killer made concerted efforts to clean up the scene and 100 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:31,600 Speaker 1: dispose of related items right there. Karen Smith, forensics expert, 101 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 1: random killers do not clean up the scene as a 102 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 1: general rule, explain, No, they don't. And Nancy, we've been 103 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 1: here before. We've done experiments, and we've shown how difficult 104 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:47,040 Speaker 1: it is to clean up a crime scene, especially one 105 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 1: as heinous as this. We're talking about blunt force trauma 106 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 1: of blood letting injury, uh, stab wounds, more blood letting injuries, 107 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 1: and then and then she was strangled. This is going 108 00:06:57,560 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 1: to be a massive crime scene. There's going to be 109 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 1: massive amounts of clean up. And as you and I 110 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:05,799 Speaker 1: have seen in the past, cleaning up something like that 111 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 1: superficially maybe possible, but there's always going to be traces left. 112 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 1: And I guarantee you the police went in there with 113 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 1: their light sources and their chemical reagents and they found 114 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 1: every single thing that they needed. Okay, remind me, Jackie 115 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 1: to come back to that light sources and all of 116 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 1: the tricks of the trade in crime scene analysis. I 117 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 1: want to go back to something that you just said 118 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 1: that she was blood and dead, she was asphyxiated, she 119 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: was apparently punctured. Dr Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst. She's murdered three 120 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 1: times over. That's right. I was listening to Karen and 121 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: I was thinking strangled, blood, forced, trauma to the head, stabbed. 122 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 1: One of the reports I read said that she was 123 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 1: stabbed in the head, which is hard for me to imagine. Um, 124 00:07:56,120 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 1: this kind of overkill suggests that whoever did this was 125 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 1: enraged at her. This wasn't just somebody who wanted her 126 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 1: dead for some hold callous, calculated reason. That perhaps this 127 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 1: is somebody who had a relationship with her and went 128 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 1: into a fit of rage over something, that that perhaps 129 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 1: this was even an intimate homicide. You know what's interesting, 130 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 1: I want to backtrack Karen Smith with me, forensics expert 131 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 1: Dr Bethany Marshall ed pain investigative reporter, Karen Smith. You 132 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 1: alluded to experiments you and I have done together, forensics experiments. 133 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 1: One of them was patterned after the brutal murder of 134 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:42,679 Speaker 1: a mother by allegedly by her son, And the only 135 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 1: real trace that that to me was probative approved something 136 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:51,079 Speaker 1: was the fact that the mother's blood the mother's bludge 137 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 1: and dead out in the garage. Okay, a weapon was 138 00:08:56,559 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 1: never found, but it looked to be something like the 139 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 1: two by four ups dares in the guest bathroom. The 140 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:07,200 Speaker 1: mom's blood is found in the bathroom drain or on 141 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 1: the faucet, which said to me the killer felt at 142 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 1: ease staying in the home and having a little bubble 143 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: bath after the murder. Okay, that's not random. That's my point, 144 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:23,560 Speaker 1: Karen Smith, when I asked you, why is this not random? Random? 145 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 1: Killers don't wait around for a cleanup or a cover up. 146 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 1: They hit it and quit it. They're gone. They get 147 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:33,680 Speaker 1: what they're coming after. Whether they're junkie looking for money, 148 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 1: whether it's a sex attack, whether it's a burglary for 149 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 1: a DVD player or money or whatever they're trying to get, 150 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:42,959 Speaker 1: they get it. They kill if somebody gets in their 151 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:46,320 Speaker 1: way and they leave, they're not about. Oh, let me 152 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 1: mop the kitchen floor, let me do a couple of 153 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 1: loads of laundry, Scott Peterson before I leave. Let's just 154 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:56,560 Speaker 1: clean up and make everything fresh and tidy and lemon scented. 155 00:09:56,840 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 1: Oh no, that's not how a ran them killing goes down, 156 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:04,679 Speaker 1: all right? At the most they'll put somebody in a 157 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:07,319 Speaker 1: shallow grave or put leaves or trash on top of them. 158 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 1: Uh no, probably not even that. When you find a 159 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 1: body out in the open or dead in the garage, 160 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 1: left where the person was killed, left at the point 161 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 1: of contact, where the pocket but was grabbed, where the 162 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 1: car was jet that's random. Going in and doing a 163 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 1: cleanup is not random. If you look at the method 164 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:39,239 Speaker 1: and assessment of homicide, it's very clear this is not random. 165 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 1: Add Paine, investigative reporter. What do we know about the child? Well, answer, 166 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 1: we don't know a whole lot about the child. It's 167 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:49,319 Speaker 1: a one year old daughter. Other than that, because we're 168 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:51,679 Speaker 1: dealing with the minor here, police haven't released a whole 169 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 1: lot of details. By the way, they've been married two years. 170 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: They got married in the summer two years ago, so 171 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:59,680 Speaker 1: this child was born one year after their marriage. So 172 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 1: it's anymoon baby. Let's just put it like that, Alan Duke, 173 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 1: you know, but they were they've been married two years 174 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 1: and the babies is one, so they were married for 175 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:11,559 Speaker 1: you know, three months or so before she got pregnant. 176 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:14,559 Speaker 1: If that's where you're going always in the gutter, let 177 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 1: me drag you out of the gutter. Allan, Hey, this 178 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 1: is another thing I learned during our investigation of the case. 179 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:23,079 Speaker 1: The home was kind of new, at least new to them. 180 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:26,440 Speaker 1: They had recently purchased the home, and she had posted 181 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 1: Vanessa McCormick could posted quote moving on to the next 182 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:32,559 Speaker 1: chapter in our lives. I love this man more than anything, 183 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 1: and I am so happy we're finally homeowners. And with 184 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 1: that Alan Vanessa posts a photo of her husband when 185 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:43,679 Speaker 1: she's in practically every photo she posts, and they look 186 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:48,319 Speaker 1: very loving. Post a photo of him carrying her over 187 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 1: the threshold of the home and they looked very happy. 188 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 1: Earlier this week, Vanessa's sister Angela remembered her as a 189 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 1: devoted and loving mom. Words could never describe my sister. 190 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 1: My sister was the world's best mother. She did everything 191 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:06,319 Speaker 1: for her daughter and had so many plans for her. 192 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 1: She never missed an opportunity to bring her places to 193 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:14,080 Speaker 1: show off the beautiful baby. She's the true definition of 194 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 1: a family oriented person. She always help get togethers at 195 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:20,720 Speaker 1: her beautiful home that she designed to be like a 196 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:24,720 Speaker 1: home on h G t V. And strive to get 197 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 1: the family together. You know, Dr Bethany, I want to 198 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:32,079 Speaker 1: just analyze that for just one moment. All you ladies listening, men, 199 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:35,199 Speaker 1: no offense. But I don't think you think this way, 200 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 1: you know, Dr Bethany. I remember when I was prosecuting 201 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 1: hardcore felonies. I would be working on weekends, and of 202 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: course I love it because I knew the defense attorneys 203 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:45,320 Speaker 1: were back with their feet up, drinking beer, watching football. 204 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm gonna get you. I would look out 205 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 1: the law Library window would think they're out there with 206 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:56,319 Speaker 1: their feet up, I'm gonna get them. But I remember 207 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:58,840 Speaker 1: if I would be working at home, i'd have the 208 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 1: TV on in the background, owned and I would see 209 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 1: the Martha Stewart Show, you know, the old one, not 210 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 1: the talk show, which was awesome, but the other one 211 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 1: where she was in her home and she would be 212 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 1: doing all sorts of domestic magic, and I would think, Wow, 213 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 1: I would like to do that. I'm gonna do that 214 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 1: one day. Of course I never did, because I was 215 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 1: prosecuting murders and rapes and john Woods nations. But this 216 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: woman had a dream, and it reminds me a little 217 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 1: bit of Lacey Peterson because I looked in her home 218 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:32,320 Speaker 1: there own Covina in modesto and she had it so 219 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 1: decorated and also reminds me of Tera Grinstead because her 220 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 1: mom took me into their home. This woman, Vanessa says, 221 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 1: she wanted the home to look like the home on 222 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:46,319 Speaker 1: HGTV if you look at all our pictures and we're 223 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:49,200 Speaker 1: on the outside looking in. Bethany, of course, but she 224 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 1: was trying so hard to make this beautiful home in 225 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 1: this dream world, and it was coming true. Bethany. I'm 226 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 1: not faulting her, I'm admiring her. Bethany. Well, you know 227 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 1: she was deeply rooted in her life. She loved her husband. 228 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:04,680 Speaker 1: In one of the photos, she has her arms around 229 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:07,840 Speaker 1: him and her hand on his chest, such a loving gesture, 230 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 1: as if she feels sort of safe as constant his arms. 231 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:14,080 Speaker 1: As you mentioned earlier, she had the dream job. She 232 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:16,640 Speaker 1: loved her home. I mean the fact that he carried 233 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 1: her over the threshold when they when they bought the 234 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 1: home means that she had so many hopes and dreams. 235 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: This is a home which she wanted to invite people. 236 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 1: That's one of the things her sister mentioned is that 237 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 1: she opened up her home to other people. She had 238 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 1: a baby that she took everywhere This is a woman 239 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 1: who was thinking about not only the present but the future. 240 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 1: She had hopes and dreams. And that's what's so sad 241 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 1: to me. When I see these photos, I see sort 242 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 1: of the look of somebody who's looking forward to the future, 243 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: and yet I know she's not here anymore. And it's 244 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 1: such a there's such a sad and tragic thing. Andrew 245 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 1: McCormick being held without bail now after prosecutors say he 246 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: killed his wife Vanessa inside their home because she said 247 00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 1: she wanted a divorce. Investigators tell us there were no 248 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 1: minds of forced entry, but plenty of signs of a 249 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 1: troubled marriage, from drug addiction to talk of divorce. What 250 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 1: they believe was emotive for murder. She had both slash 251 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 1: and a grieving husband, who investigators now say is a 252 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: guilty killer. When you run your own business, you know 253 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 1: time equals money. That's not just an old saying, it's true. 254 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 1: So why waste your valuable time dealing with issues legal 255 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 1: zoom can help with you may already know. Over two 256 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:34,119 Speaker 1: million people have used a legal zoom to start their businesses. 257 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 1: But legal Zoom services don't end there. Running a business 258 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 1: comes with taxes, contracts, hiring employees basically a lot of 259 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 1: fine print, and that's why legal Zoom built a network 260 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:49,080 Speaker 1: of independent lawyers their license in all fifty states to 261 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 1: provide you the advice you need to get through the 262 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 1: daily grind of running a business, and you don't have 263 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 1: to worry about billable hours. Legal zoom is not a 264 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 1: law firm. Instead, you can out on upfront pricing and clarity. 265 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 1: So invest your time and money and growing your business. 266 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 1: Let legal Zoom help with the legal stuff. For special savings, 267 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 1: be sure to enter promo code Nancy in a n 268 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 1: c Y in the referral box at checkout for special 269 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 1: savings only at legal zoom dot com. Legal zoom dot com. 270 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:28,120 Speaker 1: Accused killer Andrew McCormick broke into tears as prosecutors told 271 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 1: the judge how he bludgeons, stabs, slashed and suffocated his 272 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 1: wife Vanessa. Prosecutors say the twenty nine year old killed 273 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 1: his wife Vanessa and then tried to cover up that crime. 274 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 1: The ad says Vanessa but loves. Second grade teacher in 275 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 1: Lynn recently told McCormick she wanted to sell the house 276 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 1: and file for a divorce. He told her she was crazy. 277 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 1: It would never sign anything. Prosecutors say a cocaine dealer 278 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 1: told them Andrew McCormick had a four hundred of five 279 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 1: hundred dollar a week drug habit that he bought one 280 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 1: hundred dollars worth the day of the murder. Texts from 281 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 1: his wife last month say I hate you so much. 282 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:04,199 Speaker 1: They believe McCormick killed his wife and then tried to 283 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 1: hide the evidence by scrubbing their home with bleach. They 284 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 1: were so spotless that the only two footprints on the 285 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 1: tile floor were from a police officers shoes when he 286 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 1: stepped in there. I want to head back to Vanessa 287 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:20,359 Speaker 1: McCormick and what we now are learning. The husband of 288 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 1: Vanessa McCormick, the guy that Dr Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst out 289 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:30,200 Speaker 1: of l A has been describing in all of these photos, 290 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 1: I mean, one after the next after the next, has 291 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 1: been charged with murder. I guess, Karen Smith, forensics expert, 292 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 1: we should have seen it coming right, Why it sounds 293 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:45,679 Speaker 1: like it. First of all, I made a couple of 294 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:50,439 Speaker 1: observations with the photographs the husband. First of all, you 295 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 1: talked about cleaning up the crime scene, sort of a 296 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:55,199 Speaker 1: giveaway as far as I'm concerned forensically as far as 297 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:58,679 Speaker 1: you're concerned prosecutorially, But in the photographs he is a 298 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:04,000 Speaker 1: very strong, muscular man. He would have had absolutely no 299 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:08,480 Speaker 1: problem overpowering Vanessa and doing these injuries to her, as 300 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 1: well as the clean up that you've talked about so extensively. 301 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:15,120 Speaker 1: He was very big, she was very petite. As you said, 302 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 1: she was very beautiful. And it's really disconcerting to me 303 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,879 Speaker 1: once again that we're dealing with a domestic violence issue 304 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:28,880 Speaker 1: where the husband is now charged with her murder, and 305 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 1: we don't know if there's been prior calls, we don't 306 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:33,959 Speaker 1: know if they've been there before. But I have no 307 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:38,399 Speaker 1: doubt that the Massachusetts State Police, a very fine, excellent organization, 308 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 1: is going to put every single piece of evidence together 309 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:44,200 Speaker 1: and bring the charges against him. That you know, Karen Smith, 310 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:47,440 Speaker 1: you earlier referred to the techniques used by c s 311 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 1: I crime scene investigators in processing a crime scene, giving 312 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 1: an overview and in a nutshell doub me down for me, Karen, 313 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 1: don't make it difficult for me to learn. It's They're 314 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 1: gonna be dealing with a lot of different things. First 315 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:04,359 Speaker 1: of all, if he made quote unquote a concerted effort 316 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:06,920 Speaker 1: to clean up the crime scene and dispose of related 317 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 1: items Clue number one. Second of all, we're dealing with 318 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:13,480 Speaker 1: her body. That's going to be evidence Item number one. 319 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:16,680 Speaker 1: Has she been moved? There are some giveaways. Uh, there's 320 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 1: something called lividity, and that's the blood that settles after death. 321 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 1: If her body has been moved, they're gonna know it 322 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 1: because there's going to be different patterns left on her 323 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:30,440 Speaker 1: body showing where there are dark purple versus some blanching 324 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 1: white areas, And that's one thing they're going to look at. Also, 325 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 1: blood flows. We know that blood is very difficult to 326 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:39,160 Speaker 1: clean We're going to be looking for blood flows against 327 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 1: gravity that might have been left on her body. That 328 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 1: will be a giveaway that her body has been moved 329 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 1: as well. Any blood that's missing from the scene that's 330 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:50,919 Speaker 1: been cleaned up another give I mean, Karen, if I 331 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:55,960 Speaker 1: see with for instance, luminal luminol is a technique that 332 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 1: blood lights up at looks like infrared. That's what it 333 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 1: looks like, you know, like when you're in a fun 334 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:09,200 Speaker 1: house and you see glowy psychedelic colors on the wall, 335 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 1: and that's what it looks like. If I see one 336 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:18,919 Speaker 1: swipe of a mop that shows me one time, even 337 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:21,439 Speaker 1: that blood has been mopped up, I can tell you 338 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:24,720 Speaker 1: somebody in the house bam is somebody has to clean 339 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:28,359 Speaker 1: up the scene. Always go back to Scott Peterson, because 340 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 1: that's one in recent history we can think of. Why 341 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:35,120 Speaker 1: in the world do you suddenly start mopping and cleaning 342 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:39,199 Speaker 1: and doing laundry. Why when you've never done it in 343 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:43,119 Speaker 1: your life. If I see one darn sweep of the 344 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 1: mop with luminol, I'm arresting somebody close to that victim. 345 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 1: Luminol is one technique used by c S. I in 346 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 1: a nutshell, Karen, how does luminol work. Luminol is it's 347 00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 1: what's called a chema luminescent reagent, and what it does 348 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:02,159 Speaker 1: is it reacts with the iron that's in our blood 349 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:05,440 Speaker 1: and it creates, like you said, sort of a greenish 350 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:09,960 Speaker 1: blue glow. And when we see that in a presumed 351 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 1: clean up crime scene, which is what we have here, 352 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 1: we can spray it in the area where we believe 353 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:17,680 Speaker 1: blood was, and those trace amounts are going to give 354 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 1: off light. There's no light source that's needed. Everything you 355 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:22,360 Speaker 1: see on TV is wrong. They don't need a light 356 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 1: source with this and that's photographed, it can show the 357 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,359 Speaker 1: patterns of I mean, you can do it in broad daylight. 358 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 1: You can use luminal in broad daylight. No, you have 359 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 1: to have a dark room to use luminal, but you 360 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:35,360 Speaker 1: don't need an extra light source out there in order 361 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 1: to make it show up. It shows on. I've got 362 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:39,920 Speaker 1: a question here in the studio from producer Jackie. She 363 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: wants to know is there a way to get around luminal? 364 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:45,359 Speaker 1: Can you bait luminal? If there's blood blood streaked on 365 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:47,480 Speaker 1: the floor of the walls and you use luminal, is 366 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:50,679 Speaker 1: there a wife to avoid it showing up? Not really, 367 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:54,400 Speaker 1: It's going to show very very minute trace, trace amounts. 368 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:58,399 Speaker 1: But here's the kicker. It cross reacts with bleach, So 369 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 1: bleach is going to make it glow as well. But 370 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:04,160 Speaker 1: trained investigators, which the mass State Police has, are going 371 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 1: to know the difference by sight on what is bleach 372 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:09,760 Speaker 1: and what is blood. A lot of people think you 373 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 1: can destroy DNA with bleach. That's that's not necessarily true. 374 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:17,240 Speaker 1: DNA can survive going through the washer. It can survive 375 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:22,960 Speaker 1: bleach in many cases. Now possibly um meriadic acid can 376 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 1: destroy DNA, but it's tough to destroy DNA, But what 377 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 1: were you about to say about the luminoal. Yeah, it 378 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:31,880 Speaker 1: can destroy a lot of the larger alleles of DNA. 379 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:33,639 Speaker 1: But what I was gonna say is, once they see 380 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 1: that glow and they believe that that is blood, they 381 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 1: can use other presumptive tests phenal thaline, they can use 382 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:43,960 Speaker 1: um lucamelakhite, green. And what they'll do is they'll swab 383 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:46,480 Speaker 1: that area and if they get a positive reaction with 384 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 1: those other tests, boy, that's enough to send that to 385 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 1: the lab, come back with some DNA and match that 386 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:55,159 Speaker 1: to the victim. And that's the end of that, right guys, 387 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 1: We are reporting now the husband has been apprehended. Andrew McCormick, 388 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 1: twenty nine, has been apprehended in the murder of his 389 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:07,440 Speaker 1: beautiful wife, the mother of his child, and Ssa McCormick. Again. 390 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:11,200 Speaker 1: She has found unresponsive in the couple's Revere home with 391 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:15,919 Speaker 1: multiple signs of trauma to her body. And interesting to 392 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 1: Dr Bethany Marshall, he's the one that places the nine 393 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:23,200 Speaker 1: one one call. Isn't that always the case, Nancy? These 394 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 1: perpetrators always call mine one one and they cry, they scream, 395 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 1: they cry, big crocodile tears, as if they're not transparent, 396 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,480 Speaker 1: as if those tapes will not be played at some point, 397 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: as if there will not be a lot of behavioral 398 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 1: clues in the way that they placed the nine one 399 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:42,920 Speaker 1: one call. But you know, I want to go back 400 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 1: to the blunt force trauma, the strangling, you know, the overkill. 401 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:49,640 Speaker 1: What we often see in domestic homicide is that there's 402 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 1: been let's say, a life insurance policy has been taken out, 403 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,920 Speaker 1: or that that the the husband is having an affair, 404 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:59,400 Speaker 1: or there there's some type of motivation for the homicide. 405 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 1: But in this case, given that there's such an overkill aspect, 406 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 1: it makes me wonder if if he's the sort of 407 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:11,439 Speaker 1: guy who's pathologically jealous, pathologically insecure, if she did something 408 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:14,960 Speaker 1: very small or benign, like, you know, talk to another guy, 409 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 1: or maybe stayed out too late, and he had a 410 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 1: problem with self regulation, he could not regulate his rage, 411 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,360 Speaker 1: and then he went into overkill mode. And um, so, 412 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:26,639 Speaker 1: as as we followed the story, would be interesting to 413 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 1: hear what other family members say, what kind of a 414 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 1: mood and personality he had, and also, as you mentioned earlier, 415 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: were their prior domestics. I wouldn't be surprised to learn 416 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 1: that this wasn't the first domestic violent situation that they 417 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 1: had been in. Guys, the husband has now been arrested 418 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 1: and we're learning so much more. We're learning that there 419 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 1: was recovery of footage from a private surveillance system as 420 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,880 Speaker 1: well as public safety cameras. What does that mean public 421 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:58,600 Speaker 1: safety cameras? Was he out getting rid of evidence in 422 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:02,119 Speaker 1: a public dump because we know and that's related to 423 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:06,360 Speaker 1: this murder was disposed of. Um. We also know that 424 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:08,879 Speaker 1: not only did he call police, he's the one that 425 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 1: apparently finds the body, but we know that computers, laptops, 426 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:18,720 Speaker 1: cell phones were searched. What would that be about Dr Marshall, Well, 427 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 1: I would wonder about a couple of things. Remember with 428 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:28,920 Speaker 1: Casey Anthony that she U researched neck breaking, strangulation, suffocation, 429 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,920 Speaker 1: all these kinds of things before um her her baby 430 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,960 Speaker 1: went missing. So, UM, I wouldn't be surprised if the 431 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: police are looking to see, you know what kind of 432 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 1: searches he made prior to this domestic incident. Um. Sometimes 433 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 1: when there's a domestic homicide, the perpetrator searches for a 434 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:49,200 Speaker 1: dump site for the body. It doesn't appear that he 435 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:51,359 Speaker 1: thought he had in this case, but that might be 436 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 1: something that they would would be looking for. Also if 437 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,360 Speaker 1: he was having a relationship with another woman. Not that 438 00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,159 Speaker 1: that really matters if he's the perpetrator. But what what 439 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 1: would matter is um putting putting together the motivation for 440 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 1: this crime. You know another thing? Do you remember? And 441 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 1: I just used this because it's so textbook, but you 442 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,359 Speaker 1: could point to any number of defendants. But remember how 443 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 1: Scott Peterson tried to work up a tear during one 444 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:17,680 Speaker 1: of the interviews. He gave, well the husband, isn't this true? 445 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:22,880 Speaker 1: Alan that Andrew McCormick was spotted by CBS Boston cameras 446 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 1: going back to the house to pick up a baby 447 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 1: chair for the baby daughter and some other items. He 448 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:32,400 Speaker 1: left without saying anything to the cameras, but just managed 449 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:34,960 Speaker 1: to break down and start crying at the scene while 450 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 1: the cameras were rolling boo while the crime scene investigation 451 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:41,440 Speaker 1: tape was still up. They allowed him into the house, 452 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:45,200 Speaker 1: apparently to fetch this clean some more blood, to fetch 453 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,480 Speaker 1: his his kids Disney chair, you know those little chairs 454 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:51,399 Speaker 1: that kids feel so comfortable in, and he was carrying 455 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,119 Speaker 1: it back. It was kind of a an interesting scene. 456 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,159 Speaker 1: By the way, did you see where what he studied 457 00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 1: in college? Shoe ahead, you drop it? Okay, although now 458 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:02,919 Speaker 1: he's been working as what they call a drywall taper. 459 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,959 Speaker 1: That's like he installs drywall and he's a union member. 460 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 1: He studied criminal justice at the University of Massachusetts, Boston 461 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,720 Speaker 1: and after that worked as a security supervisor for a 462 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,639 Speaker 1: private security firm. Okay. Dgr Bethany Marshall and Karen Smith 463 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 1: with me alone with ed paying investigative reporter. Dr. Bethany Marshall. 464 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:26,560 Speaker 1: A background in criminal justice working in security. What does 465 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:28,359 Speaker 1: that say to you? What did he think you can 466 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 1: clean up the crime scene and him at the perfect crime? Well, 467 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:36,199 Speaker 1: you know, there's robust research that suggests that sociopaths gravitate 468 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:39,479 Speaker 1: towards jobs in law enforcement. It's so fascinating, and I 469 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,119 Speaker 1: think the reason for that is that they love to 470 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,960 Speaker 1: relate to others on the basis of power, and so 471 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,720 Speaker 1: they see being a law enforcement officer is a very 472 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 1: powerful position in society. So that that's one thing. The 473 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 1: other is that if he studied criminal justice, sort of 474 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:57,639 Speaker 1: the idea of like homicide and crime, and you know, 475 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,880 Speaker 1: the criminal mindset might have been very into resting to him, 476 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:04,120 Speaker 1: which would suggest to me that he already was sort 477 00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 1: of premeditating on some level a criminal act or a 478 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,800 Speaker 1: violent act, even maybe before meeting his wife, that he 479 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 1: might have been in love with the idea of criminal activity. 480 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:17,800 Speaker 1: You know, Karen Smith, forensics expert. We're all on one 481 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:22,159 Speaker 1: side of the law, and it's always disheartening when you 482 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 1: see someone on as I say, our side of the law, 483 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:26,960 Speaker 1: which I believe is the right side of the law, 484 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:33,880 Speaker 1: going to the dark side. But it happens. And those people, cops, investigators, 485 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,720 Speaker 1: people in security, people with criminal justice degrees like you, 486 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:42,680 Speaker 1: um can make some of the best criminals. Why Karen, 487 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:46,560 Speaker 1: they can. But obviously UM and at this time, no, 488 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:48,960 Speaker 1: he did not pay attention in crime scene class because 489 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:50,800 Speaker 1: if he had, he would have known that what he 490 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 1: was attempting was the impossible, knowing who he would be 491 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,840 Speaker 1: up against. It's true, Unfortunately, there are there are people 492 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 1: in in our profession that do decide to try to 493 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 1: commit these heinous crimes. And perhaps you know, I'm not 494 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:08,880 Speaker 1: the psychoanalyst, but it is an arrogance. It is the power. 495 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 1: But I mean, what are you learning criminal justice? You 496 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:15,120 Speaker 1: learn basically that you cannot commit the perfect crime. That's 497 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 1: that's crime scene one oh one, that's law enforcement one 498 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,440 Speaker 1: oh one. There is no perfect crime. There are crimes 499 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 1: that are unsolved just because the evidence hasn't been found yet. 500 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 1: In this case, not only did he call nine one one, 501 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 1: he tried to clean up the crime scene and he 502 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:32,720 Speaker 1: apparently ditched the evidence. So who else did he think 503 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 1: that we're going to come after? I mean, I'm looking 504 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 1: at a picture right now, a snap Dr Bethany Dr 505 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:44,880 Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst out of l A. And uh, it 506 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,640 Speaker 1: makes me sick to my stomach. And I felt this 507 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 1: a lot of times in court when I'd be prosecuting 508 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 1: a domestic homicide and instead of it coming out of 509 00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 1: me vomiting in a trash can in front of the jury, 510 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,920 Speaker 1: it came out it just plain. Oh mean, now, I 511 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,920 Speaker 1: mean crazy, mean in court, I'm looking at a picture 512 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:08,520 Speaker 1: right now of this mm hmm. I don't even know 513 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 1: what to call him. Monster. He's huge, he's all buffed out. 514 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:14,239 Speaker 1: I'm telling you something. The other day, I was at 515 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:16,719 Speaker 1: the John David my son one of his soccer games, 516 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 1: and I looked at a guy there who was coaching 517 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 1: for one of the other teams. He's all buffed out. 518 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:26,320 Speaker 1: I mean, like massive muscles and chess. I'm like David Lynch. 519 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:28,600 Speaker 1: I looked at my husband said, if you get buffed 520 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,800 Speaker 1: out like that, you know what I'm telling on you. 521 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:34,280 Speaker 1: I'm going straight to divorce court because you need to 522 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:37,040 Speaker 1: be either at work or with these children. You do 523 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 1: not need to be pumping iron in the gym. Okay, 524 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:42,760 Speaker 1: you need to be at work like me. Okay, if 525 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,920 Speaker 1: I'm working, we're all working. And I'm looking at this guy. 526 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,640 Speaker 1: He's totally buffed out to the point that Jackie, come, 527 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 1: look at this over my shoulder. His he can't even 528 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,120 Speaker 1: get his bicep into his shirt and it's a short 529 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 1: sleeved shirt. Uh look look at that. Do you see 530 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 1: that Jackie can't even get and he's kissing her. She's 531 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 1: smiling at the camera. He looks like he's about the 532 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 1: bit or minor face off now that I think about yeah, yeah, yeah, Oh. 533 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:10,840 Speaker 1: Jackie just said it makes her wonder about steroids. That's 534 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 1: a good point. But I look at this a great point, 535 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,959 Speaker 1: and it's such a dichotomy. Dr Bethany, I mean this 536 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:21,200 Speaker 1: photo I believe is after the baby is born and 537 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:25,320 Speaker 1: they look so in love. I don't get it. It 538 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 1: doesn't he have a skull on the face of his sweatshirt. 539 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 1: And one of those UM photos too, you know, one 540 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,200 Speaker 1: he can hardly get the bicep through the shirt sleeve. 541 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,600 Speaker 1: But one of them he has a skull um on 542 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 1: the front of his sweatshirt. And I just think that's 543 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,800 Speaker 1: a such a eerie photo. But you know when you 544 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:44,320 Speaker 1: see him all buffed out and muscular. UM. I think 545 00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:48,600 Speaker 1: about the motivations behind domestic combicide. Why it's always the 546 00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:52,640 Speaker 1: husband UM, or the wife for the parent, or somebody 547 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 1: in intimate relationship with the victim. And that's because it's 548 00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:59,560 Speaker 1: in the context of intimate relationships that all the homicidal 549 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:07,600 Speaker 1: feeling occur, like envy, jealousy, resentment, um, betrayal. And so 550 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 1: I see, I keep wondering, you know, what was going 551 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,920 Speaker 1: on inside that house. Did she have a relationship with 552 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 1: a guy who was maybe just a friend and he 553 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:20,360 Speaker 1: was boiling over with rage or jealousy? Um? Was she 554 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,280 Speaker 1: a beautiful free spirit in the world and he couldn't 555 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:26,880 Speaker 1: take it. Everything was upsetting him. This is probably a 556 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:33,160 Speaker 1: very unstable person for whom very small, benign events in 557 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,520 Speaker 1: both of their lives kicked him over constantly. So I 558 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:38,840 Speaker 1: wouldn't be surprised to learn that there was a lot 559 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:43,280 Speaker 1: of arguing tension and maybe an ongoing domestic violence situation 560 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 1: in that home. Karen Smith, you want in on steroids. Yes, 561 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:48,920 Speaker 1: we're talking about the criminal justice aspect, and a lot 562 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,840 Speaker 1: of police officers, male police officers, some females do work 563 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,240 Speaker 1: out quite often, and there's a reason for that. You know, 564 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:57,280 Speaker 1: we're dealing with the criminal element. You have to be 565 00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:59,680 Speaker 1: stronger than they are. You have to be able to 566 00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,600 Speaker 1: hand all yourself in very dangerous situations. But a lot 567 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 1: of times officers and people in the field go overboard 568 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:10,160 Speaker 1: and they do take steroids in order to appear bigger, 569 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,400 Speaker 1: to appear more intimidating, to maybe fend off the fact 570 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 1: that somebody wants to fight them in the first place. 571 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:19,280 Speaker 1: So when you mentioned steroids, um, I know it affects 572 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:21,520 Speaker 1: the way that you behave as well, but it is 573 00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:24,760 Speaker 1: pretty rampant in the criminal justice arena. This is what 574 00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:29,560 Speaker 1: I know. This beautiful young mom, Vanessa McCormick is dead. 575 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 1: She was killed three ways, three times over. I want justice. 576 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,480 Speaker 1: The a DA says McCormick left the murder scene with 577 00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,000 Speaker 1: the couple's one year old daughter to go by cocaine 578 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 1: and then later called nine one one in the day after. 579 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,000 Speaker 1: He said he found his wife dead. He didn't try 580 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,320 Speaker 1: to revive Vanessa or even turn her over. She was 581 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:51,640 Speaker 1: faced down on the bedroom floor. He said. He simply 582 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 1: checked her neck for a pulse and she was cold. 583 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,480 Speaker 1: She had both slash and sab wounds on her neck. 584 00:33:56,680 --> 00:34:01,160 Speaker 1: She had signs of both manual strangulation and as suffocation, 585 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 1: the latter possibly from a trash bag that appeared to 586 00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 1: have been put on her head at some point. When 587 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:10,360 Speaker 1: the police got there, the place smelled very strongly of bleach. 588 00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:13,799 Speaker 1: The bathroom across the hall had been scrubbed spotless. They 589 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,000 Speaker 1: were so spotless that the only two footprints on the 590 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,759 Speaker 1: tile floor were from a police officer's shoes when he 591 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,760 Speaker 1: stepped in there. He's been crying since he was arrested. 592 00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:26,400 Speaker 1: His defense attorney called the case circumstantial, urging the public 593 00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:30,360 Speaker 1: to reserve judgment. He has adamily denied that he committed 594 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:33,280 Speaker 1: this crime. McCormick's attorney says police have the wrong man. 595 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,120 Speaker 1: Pointing out the couple never had any issues with violence. 596 00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:39,360 Speaker 1: The defense attorney says McCormick did have a prior domestic 597 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,759 Speaker 1: issue in a previous relationship, but that case was dismissed. 598 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:44,719 Speaker 1: He was not convicted of anything. He has no record. 599 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:47,960 Speaker 1: McCormick's attorney also made the argument that his client would 600 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:50,279 Speaker 1: have no reason to bleach the home. His DNA and 601 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:51,960 Speaker 1: his pens are gonna be all over the house, so 602 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 1: why would he be bleaching the house. I think it's 603 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:56,160 Speaker 1: a lot more likely than an assailant from outside the 604 00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:58,360 Speaker 1: home bleached the house, and I he did it. And 605 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:02,759 Speaker 1: now to Florida where a fifty eight year old mom 606 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:08,680 Speaker 1: allegedly has how can I say this sex relations with 607 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:15,200 Speaker 1: her daughter's husband. Repeat, a Florida fifty eight year old 608 00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:21,640 Speaker 1: mother has relations with her daughter's husband, age thirty three, 609 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:26,279 Speaker 1: and then allegedly tries to run him over in her 610 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:31,960 Speaker 1: Mercedes after he reveals the affair. Okay, just Alan, did 611 00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:35,080 Speaker 1: I get that straight? And my understanding this fact scenario 612 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:38,840 Speaker 1: before I proceed one inch further. That's that's one reason 613 00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:43,560 Speaker 1: we're talking about it is it's so bizarble. Okay. Number one, 614 00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:45,840 Speaker 1: I don't ever want to even think of my children 615 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,560 Speaker 1: having relations with anybody else. Okay, I want to think 616 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:52,560 Speaker 1: about that much less trying to ensnare that love object 617 00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,400 Speaker 1: into my own web of passion. I really don't know 618 00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:57,000 Speaker 1: how else to explain it, but this is what we 619 00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:00,680 Speaker 1: know right now. Kathleen Davis, fifty eight years old, allegedly 620 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:03,680 Speaker 1: has a sex affair with her daughter's thirty three year 621 00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:10,800 Speaker 1: old husband. The husband, Michael Skiera, exposes their indiscretion to 622 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:15,319 Speaker 1: the daughter. You know right there. I remember when Dear 623 00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:18,799 Speaker 1: Abbey used to be in the newspaper. Then make and telegraph. Okay, 624 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:21,520 Speaker 1: Dr Bethany Marsha will probably disagree with Abby, And if 625 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,040 Speaker 1: you do, just don't even say it, all right, because 626 00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:26,760 Speaker 1: I want to still be your friend. Dr Bethany, don't 627 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:30,960 Speaker 1: mess with Dear Abbey, God rest her soul. So people 628 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:34,000 Speaker 1: were always writing into Dear Abbey going Should I tell 629 00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:37,480 Speaker 1: my spouse my husband that I had an affair ten 630 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:42,760 Speaker 1: years ago? Uh? No, No, I can't tell you that, don't. 631 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:46,040 Speaker 1: I mean, why would you make yourself feel better by 632 00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:50,320 Speaker 1: purging and make your spouse feel like do? Do Do? No? Oh, Nancy, 633 00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:52,680 Speaker 1: I guess I get this question in my office all 634 00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:56,839 Speaker 1: the time. A patient your guilt, right, I always say 635 00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:59,319 Speaker 1: to the patients, well, if you tell the spouse you'll 636 00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:01,080 Speaker 1: feel better. Then they'll have to live with it for 637 00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:03,640 Speaker 1: the rest of their life. So they can't talk to 638 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:07,120 Speaker 1: a Bothy. I'm very proud of you, no psycho babble 639 00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:10,279 Speaker 1: mumbo jumbo and disagreeing with dear Abbey okay, because that 640 00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:13,040 Speaker 1: would be crossing the line for me. So I would 641 00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:15,879 Speaker 1: read dear Abbey as even as a girl. They make 642 00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:20,399 Speaker 1: and telegraph and uh here. For some reason, the son 643 00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:23,839 Speaker 1: felt he had to aload to his wife okay, had 644 00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:27,400 Speaker 1: to tell her well, of course they're is strange now. 645 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:32,719 Speaker 1: But Michael also told police he had a sex relationship 646 00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:35,960 Speaker 1: with his mother in law before the relationship with his 647 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:40,479 Speaker 1: wife ended. Then there was an incident just a couple 648 00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:45,440 Speaker 1: of days ago, and angry mother in law throws eggs 649 00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:49,640 Speaker 1: at his house and at his car. Okay, Now, I'm 650 00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:51,600 Speaker 1: not talking about Justin Bieber here, or as I like 651 00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:55,240 Speaker 1: to infuriate my twins by saying Justin Beaver, it's baber, 652 00:37:55,400 --> 00:38:00,120 Speaker 1: mom um. I love that. It's like on que every 653 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:04,280 Speaker 1: time I says Beaver, Okay, sometimes I say Taylor Swift's 654 00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:07,279 Speaker 1: so that draws him over the edge. But back to this, 655 00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:10,560 Speaker 1: so she goes in eggs his home and his car. 656 00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:15,000 Speaker 1: This is a fifty eight year old woman. And then, 657 00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:20,200 Speaker 1: according to police, she runs him over, trying to kill 658 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,560 Speaker 1: him by running him over with the Mercedes and paying 659 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,719 Speaker 1: crime stories investigative reporter, Please tell me I've got the 660 00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:29,839 Speaker 1: facts wrong. Well, we know when police got there that 661 00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:32,680 Speaker 1: you know, this black Mercedes that she was driving was 662 00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:34,960 Speaker 1: doing like donuts all over the front yard and she 663 00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:40,840 Speaker 1: was chasing him around. It's not funny, Jackie, quit laughing. Okay, 664 00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:42,719 Speaker 1: go ahead. I guess it says something about her that 665 00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:46,439 Speaker 1: she pulled out her two door Mercedes to track down 666 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,439 Speaker 1: her former lover. That you mean her son in law 667 00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:54,400 Speaker 1: with her lover slash son in law. If you're going 668 00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:56,839 Speaker 1: to run over somebody who buys, will do it in style. Yeah, 669 00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:01,440 Speaker 1: with the doughnuts. So and enraged Davis was seen by police, 670 00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:05,839 Speaker 1: seeing by responding police chasing Michael with her Mercedes on 671 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:10,680 Speaker 1: his front lawn while he tried to dodge the oncoming Mercedes. 672 00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:13,480 Speaker 1: You and Mercedes is a hunt. It is a ton 673 00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:18,000 Speaker 1: of metal. So this is what we know. There has 674 00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:20,239 Speaker 1: been and I remember covering it. The first death of 675 00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:24,360 Speaker 1: by Mercedes when a dentist wife ran him down in 676 00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:26,640 Speaker 1: the parking lot. He was nothing but a speed bomp 677 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:31,560 Speaker 1: and they had two little boys left daddy's dad and 678 00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:36,200 Speaker 1: mommy's in jail. Great, that's one of the reasons Dr Bethany, 679 00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:40,080 Speaker 1: as you've advised me, uh not to kill David because 680 00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:42,439 Speaker 1: the twins will be left with who what, Who's gonna 681 00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:45,040 Speaker 1: take care of them? Alan Duke, I mean, what am 682 00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:48,920 Speaker 1: I gonna do? So that's why I hold back. You know, 683 00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:51,120 Speaker 1: I put that knife back in the drawer every night 684 00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:54,600 Speaker 1: after dinner. But here the mother in law tries to 685 00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:58,440 Speaker 1: kill the son in law. Dr Bethany, we need a 686 00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:00,960 Speaker 1: shrink desperately here. By the way, with a Dennis's wife, 687 00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:03,719 Speaker 1: not only did she run over her husband, then she 688 00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:06,640 Speaker 1: she went back and forth over him multiple times. So 689 00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:10,320 Speaker 1: it was really an overkilled situation. And I would say 690 00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:14,000 Speaker 1: in this case, I just this just screams a borderline 691 00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:19,520 Speaker 1: personality disorder to me. You know, borderline women with borderline personality. 692 00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:22,200 Speaker 1: Can we just start with the eggs? Can we start 693 00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:25,320 Speaker 1: with the throwing the eggs? A fifty eight year old 694 00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:29,120 Speaker 1: woman throwing eggs at a car and a house. Well, 695 00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:31,560 Speaker 1: first of all, what about the fact that this son 696 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:34,919 Speaker 1: inten The son in law intentionally destroys the mother daughter 697 00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:38,520 Speaker 1: relationship by a sleeping with the mother in law. It's 698 00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:40,160 Speaker 1: not like she was the only one involved in that. 699 00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:44,120 Speaker 1: He was there too, and then telling the daughter by 700 00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:47,280 Speaker 1: couldn't he keep his yap shut to shut his bi hole? Well, 701 00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:50,799 Speaker 1: poor judgment, right, But on the mother's part, I kept 702 00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:54,520 Speaker 1: thinking about the role of envy, having envy towards her daughter, 703 00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:56,839 Speaker 1: the daughter's young Did you see the photos? The daughter 704 00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:01,200 Speaker 1: is gorgeous, she looks happy, and when people are envy. 705 00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:04,719 Speaker 1: This is so shocking. I almost don't even know what 706 00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:08,120 Speaker 1: to say, other than the fact that when people are envious, 707 00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:11,880 Speaker 1: they usually want to destroy the object of their envy. 708 00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:15,319 Speaker 1: Envy is a feeling that if you have something good 709 00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:17,120 Speaker 1: and I don't have it, I want to destroy what 710 00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:19,680 Speaker 1: you have. So I think this is a mother who's 711 00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:24,680 Speaker 1: envious towards her daughter for having a marriage, home, babies, 712 00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:28,080 Speaker 1: the life, and so what better way to destroy the 713 00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:30,680 Speaker 1: object of her envy than to sleep with with the 714 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,520 Speaker 1: daughter's husband. That's what she did. And then the husband 715 00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:36,879 Speaker 1: maybe be interesting as a story unfolds to know more 716 00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:40,160 Speaker 1: about this, But the husband stupidly thinks that if he 717 00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:43,719 Speaker 1: tells his wife that somehow the situation will be better. Well, 718 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:46,520 Speaker 1: it's not. It gets worse. And then the mother in 719 00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:50,520 Speaker 1: law not only is she envious, but she's massively immature. 720 00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:53,440 Speaker 1: I mean, throwing eggs at the house. That's what teenagers do. 721 00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:57,080 Speaker 1: That's not what a grown, mature woman does. So somehow 722 00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:00,719 Speaker 1: she thinks that if she eggs the house, a situation 723 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:03,040 Speaker 1: will be better. I mean, this is a really a 724 00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:05,919 Speaker 1: very disturbed mother. Now I'm looking at a photo right now, 725 00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:10,799 Speaker 1: Karen Smith, forensics expert of the mom, the mother. You 726 00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:16,480 Speaker 1: see Kathleen, the mother putting a necklace on her daughter 727 00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:19,880 Speaker 1: on her wedding day with the bridesmaids in the background. 728 00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:23,799 Speaker 1: I mean, and they're also gorgeous. They're all dressed up 729 00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:25,960 Speaker 1: in these beautiful outfits. Here we go with the marmaid 730 00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:28,919 Speaker 1: dress again. I mean, it looks like a Barbie doll. 731 00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:32,360 Speaker 1: I mean, how can they go so wrong? Karen Smith? 732 00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:37,160 Speaker 1: And there's really no way out forensically, Karen, because the 733 00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:40,200 Speaker 1: cops drive up and they see her running the guy down. 734 00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:43,200 Speaker 1: Absolutely they I cannot imagine pulling up in my patrol 735 00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:47,160 Speaker 1: car seeing a black Mercedes with a woman driving doing 736 00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:50,200 Speaker 1: donuts in the front yard and this guy shucking and 737 00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:54,440 Speaker 1: driving trying to don speaking run over. Um, you talk 738 00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:57,640 Speaker 1: about probable cause. And in the police report, which was 739 00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:01,160 Speaker 1: so succinctly written, everything is down there. It even says 740 00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:03,319 Speaker 1: that after they arrested her and put her in the 741 00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:06,040 Speaker 1: back seat, she said, yeah, I wanted him dead. So 742 00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:08,160 Speaker 1: not only do you have a spontaneous utterance, I don't 743 00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:09,680 Speaker 1: even know if she was read Miranda at that point. 744 00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:13,120 Speaker 1: It doesn't really matter. Um, the police, Hello, open and 745 00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:16,839 Speaker 1: closed case, no problem. You know what, I think, it's 746 00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:19,759 Speaker 1: deeper than what we know. I mean, it is deep enough. 747 00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:21,920 Speaker 1: You've got the mother in law sleeping with the son 748 00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:25,040 Speaker 1: in law, the son in law relieving himself of his 749 00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:29,160 Speaker 1: guilt by telling his wife he and the wife becomes strange, 750 00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:32,560 Speaker 1: of course, and separate. Then the mother in law comes over, 751 00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:35,839 Speaker 1: eggs the house and tries to run the husband down 752 00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:38,160 Speaker 1: with the Mercedes. But that's not all. You go back 753 00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:40,960 Speaker 1: a couple of months. Listen to what I learned, Dr Bethany. 754 00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:43,920 Speaker 1: Just a few months before this, police were called to 755 00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:48,200 Speaker 1: the home because neighbors heard Hannah scream. And this is 756 00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:51,439 Speaker 1: what Hannah says when the police get there. They were 757 00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:55,920 Speaker 1: having family dinner with the two children two year old 758 00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:58,719 Speaker 1: and six year old boys, the father and the mother 759 00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:03,280 Speaker 1: around the dinner table. The husband, Michael, according to the wife, Hannah, 760 00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:07,400 Speaker 1: gets extremely agitated by the conversation at dinner where the 761 00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:11,960 Speaker 1: mom is talking about an achievement she had at work 762 00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:16,399 Speaker 1: that he quote flipped out on her and everything went 763 00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:22,040 Speaker 1: haywar wow, go ahead. You know what that tells me 764 00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:25,880 Speaker 1: is that there was definitely a domestic abuse situation happening 765 00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:28,160 Speaker 1: in the home because one of the things we see 766 00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:32,840 Speaker 1: with domestic abuse is jealousy towards the wife's achievements. In fact, um, 767 00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:35,600 Speaker 1: you know from all the stories we've covered over the years, Nancy, 768 00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:38,080 Speaker 1: that women are at at the greatest risk for domestic 769 00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:41,120 Speaker 1: combicide when they have a big achievement or they're about 770 00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:43,200 Speaker 1: to leave the relationship. Like let's say they decide to 771 00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:46,240 Speaker 1: go to college, or they bring home an award, or 772 00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:48,680 Speaker 1: or they decide to take a trip with their girlfriends. 773 00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:51,480 Speaker 1: I mean, they have some accomplishment or achievement in the world, 774 00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:55,600 Speaker 1: which marks autonomy in the relationship. That usually the husband 775 00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:59,759 Speaker 1: gets disregulated and then lashes out. So not only do 776 00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:03,080 Speaker 1: we have the mother in law, who I believe had 777 00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:05,560 Speaker 1: envy and jealousy towards her daughter and wanted to destroy 778 00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:09,000 Speaker 1: the marriage. But now now Hannah is married to a 779 00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:13,560 Speaker 1: man who's also envious and jealous towards her accomplishment and achievements. 780 00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:16,160 Speaker 1: So she can't catch a break. She has a mother 781 00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:20,160 Speaker 1: and a husband both who envy her. So talk about 782 00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:23,160 Speaker 1: patterns repeating this, This is really a good example of that. 783 00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:27,200 Speaker 1: You know, another thing about this area. It's Jeepiter, Florida. 784 00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:29,759 Speaker 1: You know, that's where all those millionaires go to live, 785 00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:34,000 Speaker 1: like Tiger Woods lives there. There's just like millionaire row 786 00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:40,279 Speaker 1: and exclusive shops and huge mansions, which really shows that 787 00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:44,200 Speaker 1: you cannot judge a book by their cover because here 788 00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:47,840 Speaker 1: they are in this home surrounded by palm trees and 789 00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:53,120 Speaker 1: beautiful grass and lovely estates. Well, this is what's going damn. 790 00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:57,759 Speaker 1: An affair exposed. A mother in law eggs the home 791 00:45:57,840 --> 00:45:59,919 Speaker 1: in the car of her son in law her love 792 00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:04,080 Speaker 1: her after he exposes it to the daughter. You know, uh, 793 00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:06,399 Speaker 1: Dr Bethany, why would he have told the daughter? Why 794 00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:08,560 Speaker 1: why would he tell his wife? Even know, we'll never 795 00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:12,080 Speaker 1: know why, But what I would guess is that he 796 00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:15,000 Speaker 1: rationalized to himself that he was getting off his chest. 797 00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:17,960 Speaker 1: But really he told her because he wanted to stick 798 00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:20,160 Speaker 1: it to her. How about he's just a good old 799 00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:24,000 Speaker 1: fashioned a hole. What about that? I'm sorry, that's probably 800 00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:28,680 Speaker 1: not psychoanalytical. The clinical term is douchebag. Nancy, Okay, now, 801 00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:32,520 Speaker 1: Dr Bethany, My children may one day listen to this. 802 00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:35,240 Speaker 1: This is why we never ever ever use the Lord's 803 00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:39,200 Speaker 1: name in vain, and we spell things preferably backwards. Okay. 804 00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:42,640 Speaker 1: Sadly the children now know how to spell backwards. Okay. 805 00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:44,440 Speaker 1: So I'm kind of at a loss here. So where 806 00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:47,560 Speaker 1: does it stand right now? Ed Payne Crime Stories investigative reporter, 807 00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:50,200 Speaker 1: Please tell me I'm wrong. Has this woman actually made 808 00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:53,360 Speaker 1: bond and she out trapes in around three? Yeah? I'm afraid, 809 00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:57,960 Speaker 1: Dear Lord in Heaven, everybody batting the hatches. No two 810 00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:00,719 Speaker 1: days behind bars at the Palm Beach count To jail. 811 00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:03,400 Speaker 1: I bet that was tough, the Palm Beach County Jail. 812 00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:08,399 Speaker 1: Go ahead, Cheesse out right bonds. So that's life from 813 00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:12,000 Speaker 1: Palm Beach Gardens as we wait to find out what's 814 00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:14,919 Speaker 1: going to happen next. Nancy Grace Crime Stories, signing off, 815 00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:18,759 Speaker 1: word to the wise. A, get a divorce if you 816 00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:23,200 Speaker 1: want to have an affair, okay. B. Don't pull downuts 817 00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:27,279 Speaker 1: in the front yard. See don't egg anybody and get 818 00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:31,759 Speaker 1: caught and day. If you must slip around, don't do 819 00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:35,320 Speaker 1: it with an in law. And with that I'm signing off. 820 00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:43,840 Speaker 1: Goodbye friend. Do you find yourself obsessing over unsolved mysteries? 821 00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:45,680 Speaker 1: Do you wish there was a group of people just 822 00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:48,600 Speaker 1: like you to talk motives and alibis with. If so, 823 00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:51,640 Speaker 1: join the crime Con Cold Case Club and work alongside 824 00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:54,680 Speaker 1: experts and fellow crime sleuths to help uncover new leads 825 00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:57,479 Speaker 1: and theories in the cold cases they adopt. Their first 826 00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:00,720 Speaker 1: cold case focuses on the mysterious disappearance of nursing student 827 00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:03,160 Speaker 1: Maura Murray in two thousand four, and it's free to 828 00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:06,040 Speaker 1: join thanks to Oxygen. Sign up now or find more 829 00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:09,160 Speaker 1: info at Club dot crime Con dot com. That's club 830 00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:11,000 Speaker 1: dot crime Con dot com.