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Speaker 1: Hey, Daniel, what do you think of all those videos

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Speaker 1: of UFOs? You know, those fine things doing things we

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Speaker 1: can't quite explain.

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Speaker 2: I love those videos. I can't get enough of them.

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Speaker 1: What do you mean you watch them on repeat all

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Speaker 1: the time.

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Speaker 2: I've seen those hundreds of times, absolutely hundreds.

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Speaker 1: That's a lot of time. Do you think they're videos

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Speaker 1: of aliens?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Man, I really want to believe. I really hope

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Speaker 2: they are aliens.

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Speaker 1: That doesn't answer the question, do you think they are aliens?

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Speaker 2: I think the truth is out there, I.

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Speaker 1: Guess, well, definitely, and it's not in here, not yet,

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Speaker 1: at least That's what I want people to believe. This

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Speaker 1: is all a big gaslighting operation by US aliens? Is

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Speaker 1: it working?

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Speaker 2: I believe?

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Speaker 1: All right, I'll take that as a yes.

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Speaker 2: Hi.

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Speaker 1: I'm Moorhey, ma cartoonist. I'm the author of Oliver's Great

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Speaker 1: Big Universe.

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Speaker 2: Hi, I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and a professor

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Speaker 2: at UC or Fine, and I'm not sure if I'm

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Speaker 2: Mulder or Scully in this conversation.

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Speaker 1: Oh tough choice. Let's see. Are you handsome and happy,

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Speaker 1: go lucky like Mulder? Or are you a stickler for

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Speaker 1: the small details? Like Scully.

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Speaker 2: Can't I be handsome and a stickler? P?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you bose the two options.

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Speaker 2: I'm the quantum superposition of Moulder and Scully.

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Speaker 1: I see you're Mully or Scolder.

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Speaker 2: I'm neither a stickler nor handsome.

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Speaker 1: Wait so you're neither, Then you're Nully. I can't take

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Speaker 1: your hat. Well, I'll take either one. I think they're

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Speaker 1: both great. Were you a big fan of the X Files?

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Speaker 2: I love the way they capture that mystery and the

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Speaker 2: enthusiasm to understand the unknown. Yeah, it was well written stuff.

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Speaker 1: You know they're doing a reboot right.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and I'm a superposition of excited and terrified.

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Speaker 1: The word reboot almost never goes well unless well, although

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Speaker 1: recently Dune that movies just came out by the time

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Speaker 1: this comes out, and that's a pretty good reboot.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, mister and missus Smith was a great reboot. Enjoyed that?

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Speaker 1: Mmm, I haven't seen that. Which myth are you, mister

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Speaker 1: and missus?

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Speaker 2: I think that's too personal a question.

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Speaker 1: But anyways, welcome to our podcast Daniel and Jorge Explain

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Speaker 1: the Universe, a production of Our Heart Radio.

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Speaker 2: In which we want to believe that the truth is

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Speaker 2: out there, that there exists an explanation for everything that

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Speaker 2: happens in the universe, that we live in a cosmos

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Speaker 2: that follows rules, that makes sense, that it is governed

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Speaker 2: by order and principles, and that we can reveal those

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Speaker 2: by doing experiments and thinking deeply and peering out into

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Speaker 2: the far reaches of space. It is possible to understand

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Speaker 2: everything out there in the universe. And our goal on

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Speaker 2: this podcast is to bring all of that knowledge and

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Speaker 2: all of those questions to you.

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Speaker 1: That's right, because we're all special investigators, we're all Scully

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Speaker 1: and more. They're both excited about what could be out there,

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Speaker 1: but also we need to be a little skeptical about

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Speaker 1: what we see or think that we see.

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Speaker 2: That's right. We need to restrain our budgeting enthusiasm for

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Speaker 2: talking to aliens about the mysteries of the universe with

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Speaker 2: the healthy note of skepticism, so that we don't fool

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Speaker 2: ourselves into believing something that isn't real.

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Speaker 1: But Daniel, do you think if aliens do exist and

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Speaker 1: they come here, are they going to be offended by

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Speaker 1: our skepticism.

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Speaker 2: I think they'll respect it absolutely.

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Speaker 1: That's a no.

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Speaker 2: Then no, I don't think they'd be offended. I mean,

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Speaker 2: if I landed on an alien planet, I would expect

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Speaker 2: them to ask a few questions before they accepted my story.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's an interesting phenomenon. You could be the alien

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Speaker 1: in another plan, but you would never leave your couch.

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Speaker 1: You've stated that before.

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Speaker 2: Yes, but I know that you have a kidnapping scheme

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Speaker 2: ready to launch me into space, so I'm mentally preparing

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Speaker 2: for it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not sure I would pick you as our

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Speaker 1: ambassador or humanity. You seem too eager to sell us out.

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Speaker 2: I think that's great news for everybody.

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Speaker 1: But anyways, it is an interesting and amazing universe out there,

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Speaker 1: full of mysteries and unknowns and potentially interesting technologies that

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Speaker 1: we have yet to discover that could be used, maybe

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Speaker 1: for things like making us aliens on another planet.

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Speaker 2: There are so many mysteries we'd like answers to, so

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Speaker 2: many tools we'd love to develop, And it's very tempting

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Speaker 2: to imagine that the aliens might already be here and

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Speaker 2: might be sharing it. That there could be secretive labs

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Speaker 2: in which our government is right now reverse engineering alien technology.

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Speaker 1: I noticed you said could be You're not sold yet.

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Speaker 1: You didn't say there are secret labs.

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Speaker 2: I didn't say there are because I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure there are secret labs, whether they have

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Speaker 1: aliens or not. I think that's the bigger question.

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Speaker 2: Oh, there are definitely secret labs. I mean I grew

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Speaker 2: up in a town where most of the labs were

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Speaker 2: behind this big fence with guns. So yes, I can

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Speaker 2: testify to the fact that there are a secret life.

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Speaker 2: Whether they are reverse engineering alien technology is a much

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Speaker 2: bigger question.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's an interesting concept, the idea of reverse engineering

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Speaker 1: alien technology. I guess the scenario is that maybe the

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Speaker 1: US discovered or found some alien technology in the past,

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Speaker 1: maybe it's high hiding an area fifty one or area

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Speaker 1: of fifty two, And the question is could we ever

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Speaker 1: do something with that technology or would it be maybe

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Speaker 1: too alien for us to figure out how it works?

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Speaker 2: And more than just speculating generally, there are specific claims

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Speaker 2: that folks have made about the precise technology that the

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Speaker 2: US government is right now or reverse engineering.

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Speaker 1: So today on the podcast, we'll be tackling the question

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Speaker 1: can element one P fifteen be used for anti gravity propulsion? Well,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of words in this question which could

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Speaker 1: be the basis of an X File episode, like, you

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Speaker 1: don't need all of it. You can choose have an

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Speaker 1: episode on antigravity, propulsion or an element called element one fifteen.

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Speaker 2: That's right. And this question sounds kind of out there,

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Speaker 2: like an X Files episode, But this specific question has

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Speaker 2: been sent to me by many listeners who've heard the

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Speaker 2: stories floating around about Bob Lazar and his claims about

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Speaker 2: Area fifty one and element one fifteen.

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Speaker 1: Hmmm, do you think those people are part of the

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Speaker 1: cult there or people on the fringe of the cult.

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Speaker 1: Are just people looking from the outside into this kind

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Speaker 1: of eighteen cult?

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Speaker 2: I don't know. They could be Area fifty one security

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Speaker 2: agents trying to figure out if we've cracked their codes.

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Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. It could be like a double agent

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Speaker 1: kind of they're trying to catch you.

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Speaker 2: This whole episode is us walking into a trap.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a drop. But I have to say I've

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Speaker 1: never heard of this element one fifteen. It sounds very

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Speaker 1: science fiction y.

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Speaker 2: Mmmm. It's fascinating because at the time Lazar first talked

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Speaker 2: about it, it was science fiction y and now it's

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Speaker 2: just science mm.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like elementium or by vranium.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that that element one fifteen is now very real.

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Speaker 1: Is it more real than one fourteen?

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Speaker 2: I think they're both maximally real and a lot more

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Speaker 2: real than unoptainium.

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Speaker 1: All right, I guess we'll dig into what this all

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Speaker 1: means and who is Bob Luzar, But first we were

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Speaker 1: wondering how many people out there had heard of element

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Speaker 1: one fifteen and whether it could be used for anti gravity.

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Speaker 2: Thanks very much to everybody who answers my tough questions

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Speaker 2: about physics and my weird questions about alien technology. Really

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Speaker 2: appreciate your time and enthusiasm. If you have time in enthusiasm,

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Speaker 2: please don't hesitate to write to me two questions at

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Speaker 2: Daniel and Jorge dot com.

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Speaker 1: So think about it for a second. Do you think

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Speaker 1: element one fifteen can be used for anti gravity propulsion?

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Speaker 1: Here's what people had to say.

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Speaker 3: So, I don't know what element one fifteen is off

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Speaker 3: the top of my head, but it is ringing a

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Speaker 3: bell from the time when I went down some rabbit

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Speaker 3: holes of Bob lass are supposedly finding this while working

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Speaker 3: for the government in the area fifty one, and given

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Speaker 3: that I'm pretty skeptical of him, I would have to

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Speaker 3: say say it can't.

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Speaker 2: But I have no idea.

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Speaker 4: Yes, I believe that element one one five can be

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Speaker 4: used anti property proportion if it can be found, and

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Speaker 4: it's not just a story. There is a specific element

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Speaker 4: that can.

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Speaker 2: Be used to define gravity to provide propotion.

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Speaker 5: Assuming I knew what element one fifteen was offhand, Yeah, sure,

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Speaker 5: Obviously we're just not working hard enough.

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Speaker 2: I want my anti GRAVI unit.

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Speaker 6: I don't know what element one fifteen is, but I

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Speaker 6: will throw out a guess that it could be if

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Speaker 6: we could make enough of it and keep it stable

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Speaker 6: for long enough to disperse it slowly as a fuel

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Speaker 6: or as a propulsion.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I feel like there's other elements. I mean,

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Speaker 4: there's one hundred other fourteen elements. You have to use

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Speaker 4: element one fifteen. I'll let you do it this one time, Daniel,

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Speaker 4: You guys can just do it this one time, or

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Speaker 4: anti gravity potion. But I feel like there's a lot

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Speaker 4: of radiation in bananas. We should use the potasium in

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Speaker 4: the bananas. There's a lot of bananas, a lot of potassium,

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Speaker 4: probably a lot of anti gravity proportion.

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Speaker 2: In that thing.

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Speaker 5: I took CAM in college, and I don't remember learning

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Speaker 5: anything about element one fifteen or even what it's called,

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Speaker 5: and I'm pretty sure if it was useful for anti gravity,

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Speaker 5: the professor would have mentioned it in lecture and I

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Speaker 5: would have remembered at least I think I paid attention

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Speaker 5: to most of the lectures.

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Speaker 2: I think that fully encapsulates the complete spectrum of answers.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, some people here I have never heard of it,

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Speaker 1: and some people are like, yes, I believe, let's do it,

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Speaker 1: let's go to space.

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Speaker 2: I know this is really enthusiasm out there. Right.

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Speaker 1: Well, I guess I've never heard of this, Daniels. So

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Speaker 1: let's start with the basics. What is element one fifteen?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, element one fifteen is just an atom with one

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Speaker 2: hundred and fifteen protons in the nucleus. If you look

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Speaker 2: at the periodic table, it's arranged by the number of

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Speaker 2: protons in each nucleus. Hydrogen means you have one proton,

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Speaker 2: Helium means you have two protons, Lithium means you have

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Speaker 2: three protons. As you add protons, you change the nature

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Speaker 2: of the element, and you can just keep adding protons

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Speaker 2: until you get to one.

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Speaker 1: Hundred fifteen and beyond.

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Speaker 2: Right or not, we've gone up to one eighteen by now,

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Speaker 2: that's oganessan The heaviest element we've ever made. We don't

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Speaker 2: know how far it goes. We think it might go

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Speaker 2: on for a long time, and that there could be

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Speaker 2: really new, fascinating, even stable elements up at very high

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Speaker 2: atomic number with very large numbers of protons.

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Speaker 1: Meaning like you can just keep adding protons to the

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Speaker 1: nucleus of an atom and you would get a different atom,

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Speaker 1: and you can just keep going, I guess your imagination.

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Speaker 1: But at some point there's a limit to which one

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Speaker 1: we've been able to make in.

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Speaker 2: A lab exactly. And there's two questions here, like how

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Speaker 2: to actually make it, and the other is how long

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Speaker 2: it sticks around, whether it's stable.

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Speaker 1: So maybe as a reference, like I think most people

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Speaker 1: know that uranium is pretty heavy. What's the atomic number

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Speaker 1: of uranium?

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Speaker 2: Uranium is actually the heaviest element we find in nature.

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Speaker 2: It has ninety two protons in it. So uranium is

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Speaker 2: made in natural processes. The universe started with almost all

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Speaker 2: just hydrogen. Made it a little bit of helium during

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Speaker 2: the Big Bang, but mostly it's been stars that've been

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Speaker 2: fusing those protons together to make heavier and heavier stuff.

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Speaker 2: You can make like up to iron in the hearts

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Speaker 2: of stars and then you need to like collide neutron

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Speaker 2: stars together or wait for supernova to make heavier stuff

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Speaker 2: up to like uranium. The heaviest thing that will stick

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Speaker 2: around forever is lead that has eighty two protons in it.

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Speaker 2: But you know, natural processes make heavier stuff that that

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Speaker 2: decays away, like uranium, which turns into lighter stuff like lead.

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Speaker 1: Now uranium is the heaviest one we've found. Is that

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Speaker 1: because nature can't make anything higher or it just gets too.

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Speaker 2: Rare, Well, we don't know. It's definitely rareer. And everything

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Speaker 2: else above uranium is also unstable, everything that we've discovered

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Speaker 2: at least, So it might be that that stuff is

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Speaker 2: made out there in nature when neutron stars collide, it

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Speaker 2: just doesn't last long enough for us to find it.

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Speaker 1: Wait, wait, do you mean we've discovered heavier elements than uranium.

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Speaker 2: We have manufactured heavier elements than uranium in the lab. Absolutely,

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Speaker 2: we can collide elements together and see them form atoms

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Speaker 2: of heavier elements. That's how we got it to like

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Speaker 2: one eighteen.

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Speaker 1: But somehow nature has not made heavier ones because maybe

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Speaker 1: it made them, but they decayed and broke apart. Or

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Speaker 1: is it just like there's some sort of energy barrier there.

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Speaker 2: It's more likely that they were made and then just

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Speaker 2: broke apart. The half life of these really heavy elements

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Speaker 2: can be like tenths of a second or half of

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Speaker 2: a second, and so if these things were made in

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Speaker 2: collisions far far away, then they're not going to last

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Speaker 2: long enough to get here and to like sit around

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Speaker 2: in the Earth for us to dig up.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so then, h that's kind of how the atom works.

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Speaker 1: You can just keep piling on protons to the nucleus.

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Speaker 1: But then how did neutrons figure it?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the neutrons are actually what helps us make them

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Speaker 2: and keep it stable because it's a little tricky, Like

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Speaker 2: it's not that easy to put two protons together. They're

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Speaker 2: both electrically charged. They like to repel each other. You

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Speaker 2: got to get them close enough that the strong force

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Speaker 2: within them helps attract them. Protons are bound states of

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Speaker 2: quarks inside each proton are upquarks and down quarks stuck

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Speaker 2: together with gluons. Technically, it's all neutral. The color charges

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Speaker 2: inside the proton all balance each other out. But if

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Speaker 2: you're really close to one side of the proton, then

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Speaker 2: you're like closer to one of the quarks than some

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Speaker 2: of the other quarks. So you're feeling a little bit

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Speaker 2: of residual color charge. And so there's like a little

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Speaker 2: bit of strong force there enough to bind them together.

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Speaker 2: But the neutrons help out by keeping the protons from

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Speaker 2: getting too close together so they don't repel. It's a

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Speaker 2: whole theory for how you build a stable atomic nucleus

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Speaker 2: involves like building shells of protons and neutrons. It's not

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Speaker 2: just like a big pile of them all slashing around.

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Speaker 2: There's an arrangement sort of similar to the way electrons

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Speaker 2: are arranged in shells around the atom. We think protons

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Speaker 2: and neutrons are arranged in shells within the atom.

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Speaker 1: I see because I guess protons that are positively charged,

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Speaker 1: right like they're the opposite of electrons, And so you

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Speaker 1: get two positive protons together, they repel each other, sort

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Speaker 1: of like two magnets might repel each other. And I

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Speaker 1: think you're saying that the neutrons they're neutral, but they

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Speaker 1: are sticky in the strong force. Yeah, and so they

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Speaker 1: somehow they're like a sticky filler so that you can

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Speaker 1: pile on more protons in one place exactly.

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Speaker 2: They have the stickiness you need to the strong force,

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Speaker 2: and they help reduce the repulsion among the protons by

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Speaker 2: keeping them further apart. That's why you need more neutrons

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Speaker 2: than protons, especially as these things get heavier and heavier.

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Speaker 2: So above lead everything is unstable. But that's only as

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Speaker 2: far as we've gotten. We've made up to one eighteen

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Speaker 2: by gently tossing together a lighter nuclei. This is also

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Speaker 2: really tricky because if you smash two nuclei together really fast,

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Speaker 2: they just explode and you got shrapnel from two nuclei.

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Speaker 2: If you toss them together too slowly, they bounce off

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Speaker 2: of each other like two baseballs. You got to find

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Speaker 2: just the right sweet spot where they like stick together,

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Speaker 2: they like mush together and become one new atom. It's

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Speaker 2: very very finicky work.

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Speaker 1: How do you do it? Do you? You just can

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Speaker 1: like shoot them from a cannon other or what.

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Speaker 2: I never thought of particle accelerators as cannons, but yeah,

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Speaker 2: they kind of are particle canons. Yeah, you just use

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Speaker 2: an accelerator so you have ions of these things. You

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Speaker 2: strip off the electrons so they're positively charged, and you

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Speaker 2: put them in an electric field that accelerates them, you

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Speaker 2: point them at each other and you have collisions just

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Speaker 2: like we do at the Large Hadron Collider, where we're

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Speaker 2: colliding basically hydrogen ions, protons and protons against each other,

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Speaker 2: except they're colliding like calcium into emerisium.

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Speaker 1: They see, you can just maybe smashed to uranium nuclei together,

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Speaker 1: can you?

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Speaker 2: You can try that if you want to make the

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Speaker 2: atom with one hundred and eighty four protons in it,

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Speaker 2: And nobody successfully done that yet. The highest we've gotten

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Speaker 2: up to is one hundred and eighteen.

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Speaker 1: I see, And then when did that happen?

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Speaker 2: So that was like in the last twenty years. It's

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Speaker 2: this facility near Moscow which has like all the expertise

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Speaker 2: and the machinery to do this. They've made all of

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Speaker 2: the heaviest stuff. It takes a long time for people

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Speaker 2: to officially recognize this and pour through the data and

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Speaker 2: convince themselves that it really is real. So element one

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Speaker 2: eight it was only recognized in twenty fifteen, some like

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Speaker 2: twelve years after the experiments were done, so it's pretty

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Speaker 2: recent stuff.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So and then you make them, but then they

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Speaker 1: quickly break down. Is that what happens to these elements?

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Speaker 1: You said?

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Speaker 2: Maybe the only last few seconds. Yeah, exactly, they can

340
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Speaker 2: last a few seconds or tenth of a second. These

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Speaker 2: really heavy elements are really unstable. They think though, that

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Speaker 2: as you add more protons and more neutrons and you

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Speaker 2: get to heavier and heavier elements, something weird might happen

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Speaker 2: that instead of getting more and more unstable, you might

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Speaker 2: reach some island of stability where you've completed some internal

346
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Speaker 2: shell inside the nucleus, you have like enough protons to

347
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Speaker 2: all click together at a form like you know, a

348
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Speaker 2: roman arch of stability effectively, and you might get really

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Speaker 2: heavy stable atoms. We have a whole podcast about the

350
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Speaker 2: possibility of super duper heavy stable atoms that might exist

351
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Speaker 2: out there in the universe or even be buried in

352
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Speaker 2: the crust of the Earth. Nobody's ever found one, and

353
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Speaker 2: it's still theoretical. But these heavy atoms are starting to

354
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Speaker 2: show slightly longer lifetimes, which suggests we might be like

355
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Speaker 2: on the shore of the island of stability.

356
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Speaker 1: And now, if they last for so little of a time,

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Speaker 1: how do we know they were there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's one of the tricky parts. They have to

359
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Speaker 2: display behavior that's consistent with our predictions. So they have

360
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Speaker 2: to interact in a certain way or emit photons, et cetera.

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Speaker 2: And because they don't last very long and we can't

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Speaker 2: make very many of them, you can make only a

363
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Speaker 2: few kinds of measurements. So that's why these things are

364
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Speaker 2: sort of subtle. It's not like you've made an ingod

365
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Speaker 2: of it and you can now sit around and play

366
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Speaker 2: with it for five years and you're like, yeah, this

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Speaker 2: is the stuff of one fifteen. For example, we've only

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Speaker 2: made one hundred atoms of this element ever.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so one fifteen is the one that's tied to

370
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Speaker 1: these alien conspiracies. And so let's talk about it one fifteen,

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Speaker 1: Where it came from, when it was made, and why

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Speaker 1: do people think it has something to do with anti

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Speaker 1: gravity and aliens until let's stick into that. But first

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Speaker 1: let's take a quick break. Al Right, we're exploring the

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Speaker 1: X files here on the podcast, or at least the

376
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Speaker 1: wires Z files, which a letter of the alphabet or

377
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Speaker 1: be some alien alphabet alpha alpha dema blurb blurk, blurk, exactly,

378
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Speaker 1: the blurk files. That's what they watch in the alien planets.

379
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Speaker 2: Somewhere out there, some alien parents yelling at their kids

380
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Speaker 2: to practice their blurk.

381
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Speaker 1: Bet there you go. Well, we're talking about this idea

382
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Speaker 1: that maybe element one fifteen can be used for anti

383
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Speaker 1: gravity propulsion and somehow tied to alien conspiracies, and so

384
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Speaker 1: we'll dig into that. But first, Daniel, I guess we

385
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Speaker 1: talked about what element one fifteen is, which is just

386
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Speaker 1: an atom maybe with one hundred and fifteen protons in

387
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Speaker 1: the nucleus. Does it have neutrons in it? Does it

388
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Speaker 1: matter if it has neutrons also in the nucleus.

389
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Speaker 2: It does also, of course have neutrons in it. Like

390
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Speaker 2: every other atomant needs neutrons in order to make it

391
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Speaker 2: more stable. You need those neutrons like buffer the protons together.

392
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Speaker 2: And so element one fifteen has one hundred and fifteen

393
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Speaker 2: protons and a total number of one hundred and seventy

394
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Speaker 2: two protons plus neutrons, which means it has fifty seven

395
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Speaker 2: neutrons in it.

396
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Speaker 1: Wait, so it doesn't have one hundred fifteen protons in

397
00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:32,280
Speaker 1: it has one hundred and fifteen protons or neutrons.

398
00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:34,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, So like every other heavy element, it has to

399
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Speaker 2: have neutrons in it to buffer those protons to help

400
00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:40,000
Speaker 2: make it stable. In this case, it needs a lot

401
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:43,520
Speaker 2: of neutrons. So there are one hundred and fifteen protons

402
00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:47,800
Speaker 2: in that nucleus. That's what makes it element one fifteen muscovium.

403
00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:51,880
Speaker 2: But there are also one hundred and seventy two neutrons,

404
00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:54,920
Speaker 2: so in total, there are two hundred and eighty nine

405
00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:58,719
Speaker 2: protons plus neutrons in this fat blob of a nucleus.

406
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Speaker 1: Well, that seems like an number, so there's more neutrons

407
00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:04,040
Speaker 1: and protons. This is the only formula they've been able

408
00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:07,639
Speaker 1: to make, because you maybe could make this element with

409
00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:09,040
Speaker 1: a different number of neutrons.

410
00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:12,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. That's what comes out when you smash calcium

411
00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:16,479
Speaker 2: forty eight together with emerisium two forty three, which are

412
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Speaker 2: two things that they also know how to make and

413
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Speaker 2: shoot at each other.

414
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Speaker 6: Hmmm.

415
00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:25,040
Speaker 1: And so you call it Muskovium. What was that named after? Moscow?

416
00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,640
Speaker 2: Yes, named after Moscow. The guy who pioneers this, who

417
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Speaker 2: like developed this special technology and really has like the

418
00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:35,080
Speaker 2: finesse to do this is a Russian scientist named Yuri Oganessian,

419
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:39,120
Speaker 2: and so element one eighteen Oganessan is named after him,

420
00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:43,720
Speaker 2: and one fifteen muscovium is named after Moscow because this

421
00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:46,600
Speaker 2: facility is in Dubno, which is near Moscow. Oh.

422
00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:52,679
Speaker 1: Interesting, that feels very Russian socialist. Like the first element

423
00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:56,120
Speaker 1: you discover has been ended after the state, the government,

424
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Speaker 1: and then and then if you find three more, we'll

425
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Speaker 1: let you name one after yourself.

426
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Speaker 2: I think there must have been a lot of high

427
00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:04,680
Speaker 2: level arguments about the naming of these elements. You notice

428
00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:08,359
Speaker 2: there's like emerisium, there's a berkeleam. You know, there's a

429
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:10,720
Speaker 2: lot of politics about who gets to name these things.

430
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Speaker 1: Oh, there's a trend of naming them after the city

431
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Speaker 1: in which you discovered them.

432
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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I don't even know the politics behind all

433
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Speaker 2: of this.

434
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Speaker 1: WHOA. I guess I should get going. If we're ever

435
00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:26,879
Speaker 1: going to discover Pasadenium or as you say, south pasadenium,

436
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:29,600
Speaker 1: When was this muscovovium discovered?

437
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Speaker 2: So it's made in two thousand and three in the

438
00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:36,399
Speaker 2: same facility as ogonnessan element one eighteen and recognized in

439
00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:37,560
Speaker 2: two thousand and.

440
00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:39,919
Speaker 1: Fifteen to twelve years. Mmmm.

441
00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:41,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is subtle stuff. You know, they've made one

442
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:44,440
Speaker 2: hundred atoms of this stuff. They think it only lasts

443
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:48,040
Speaker 2: for like zero point six y five seconds. At the

444
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:50,160
Speaker 2: time that they were running, they could make like one

445
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:53,720
Speaker 2: of these atoms every day. It's like very very finicky.

446
00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:57,280
Speaker 1: Whoa, And then what happens? They just split up into

447
00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:58,160
Speaker 1: smaller atoms.

448
00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:01,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. This one decays down into one thirteen, which

449
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:04,959
Speaker 2: then decays down into other stuff. There's nothing heavier than

450
00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:08,560
Speaker 2: lead that's stable, so eventually everything decays down into something.

451
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:11,119
Speaker 1: Stable, like it just kicks out a proton or something

452
00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:12,040
Speaker 1: or two.

453
00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:14,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, it kicks out a proton, or you get beta

454
00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:17,639
Speaker 2: decay where neutron turns into a proton they split or something,

455
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:19,879
Speaker 2: or inverse beta decay. There's all sorts of stuff that

456
00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:23,320
Speaker 2: can happen for radioactive decay down into lighter stuff.

457
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,160
Speaker 1: And what can we say about this muscovium? Is it

458
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:30,640
Speaker 1: super hard? Is it super special? Can it absorb vibrations

459
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:33,720
Speaker 1: like rebranium? Can you make a shield out of it?

460
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:35,399
Speaker 1: To the American flag in it?

461
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,480
Speaker 2: I don't think you could build an entire African economy

462
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:40,959
Speaker 2: based on this thing, especially since we have only made

463
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:44,440
Speaker 2: one hundred atoms ever, but based on where it sits

464
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:47,000
Speaker 2: in the periodic table, we can speculate or predict its

465
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:50,159
Speaker 2: chemical properties. So we think it's probably similar to like

466
00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:54,200
Speaker 2: nitrogen and phosphorus. And arsenic and thallium. That's the group

467
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:55,639
Speaker 2: of elements that they put it in.

468
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:58,840
Speaker 1: M all right, So then this is part of a

469
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:02,080
Speaker 1: pretty serious scientific which is like what's the heaviest element

470
00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:04,520
Speaker 1: we can make in a lab and to study maybe

471
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 1: the limits of these atoms and what is stable or

472
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:10,160
Speaker 1: not stable. But then somehow this got mixed up into

473
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:12,320
Speaker 1: alien conspiracies. What's the story.

474
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,240
Speaker 2: So the story started in nineteen eighty nine a guy

475
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 2: named Bob Lazar came forward claiming to have top secret

476
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,680
Speaker 2: information about element one point fifteen.

477
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:23,280
Speaker 1: Who's Bob Lazar?

478
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:25,800
Speaker 2: That's a really deep question and there's a huge internet

479
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 2: rabbit hole about who is Bob Lazar? Where does he

480
00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:30,840
Speaker 2: come from, Where did he actually work? Where does his background?

481
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:32,520
Speaker 2: Is he really an alien or not?

482
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,879
Speaker 1: Wait, he could be an alien. He could be an

483
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:37,920
Speaker 1: alien theory floating out there.

484
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:39,840
Speaker 2: Anybody could be a lizard person man, you.

485
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:44,480
Speaker 1: Never know, well, suspicious, his last name is Lazar, a

486
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 1: lizard person exactly.

487
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,160
Speaker 2: I've seen him blink. How many eyelids does he have?

488
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:49,560
Speaker 2: You know?

489
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:52,960
Speaker 1: Okay, so that this person just came out of nowhere

490
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,400
Speaker 1: or he started publishing, or how did he come into prominence?

491
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 2: He approached a local news reporter with a really compelling story.

492
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,680
Speaker 2: He claimed to be an Area fifty one employee. This

493
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 2: was in about a near Area fifty one, and he

494
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:08,919
Speaker 2: said that his job at Area fifty one was to

495
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 2: reverse engineer crashed alien flying saucers. He said that he

496
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 2: had seen these craft, that there were nine of them

497
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,960
Speaker 2: in the facility, and that he had personally worked with

498
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 2: Element one point fifteen, the crucial element to piloting alien spacecraft,

499
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 2: which relied on anti gravity technology.

500
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, I thought he was just someone with like

501
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 1: a conspiracy theory, but he's saying he was a person

502
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:36,439
Speaker 1: in Area fifty one working on these aliens bishops mm.

503
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:38,639
Speaker 2: And the thing I'll say about Bob Blazaar is that

504
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,680
Speaker 2: his story is compelling. It's like he's a good storyteller.

505
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:43,680
Speaker 2: It's like one of those stories you hear where it's

506
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 2: almost immediate, you know, my friend saw this, or I

507
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:49,680
Speaker 2: heard from my sister. So he's one step away from

508
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 2: you being able to verify it yourself. He says he

509
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 2: worked with this stuff, and he's a good storyteller. It

510
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 2: sounds very compelling.

511
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 1: Can he drive like you know, and she's like sketch

512
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 1: out what he saw?

513
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's provided a bunch of details. The more details

514
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 2: he provides, the less the story seemed to hang together scientifically.

515
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:09,879
Speaker 2: You know, that's sort of the question of the episode, like,

516
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 2: does Element one fifteen actually have anything to do with

517
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 2: anti gravity technology now that we've actually synthesized it and

518
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 2: made it and created it. At the time, element one

519
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 2: fifteen was sort of a fantasy. Nobody had ever made

520
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,760
Speaker 2: it before knew of it was even possible. But you know,

521
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 2: Bob Blazar claimed in his drawings that the US government

522
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 2: had five hundred pounds of element one fifteen. To date,

523
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,159
Speaker 2: we made one hundred atoms of it. But he claims

524
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 2: that in Area fifty one they're sitting on a pile

525
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,440
Speaker 2: of this stuff. That's five hundred pounds.

526
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,879
Speaker 1: Wait, wait, so what's his background? I guess is Lazar

527
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,480
Speaker 1: an engineer himself or you know, or was he like

528
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,360
Speaker 1: the janitor working there, or does he have diploma from

529
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 1: somewhere you can track down.

530
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 2: That's a really good question. And because his story is

531
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 2: so compelling and has received a lot of attention, a

532
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 2: bunch of people have dug into the background of Bob

533
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,679
Speaker 2: Blazar and he claimed to have gone to MIT and

534
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 2: he has his pedigree. But then there's this long argument

535
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 2: about whether he graduated from MIT, whether he was actually there.

536
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 2: He claims to have worked at Los Alamos, which would

537
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:11,880
Speaker 2: also like add to his scientific credibility.

538
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 1: Well, I feel like this could be easily settled. I

539
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,119
Speaker 1: did you just sit him down with the real engineer, Like,

540
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:18,159
Speaker 1: you know, like if you sit him down with the

541
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:21,200
Speaker 1: real engineer, the real engineer will very quickly be able

542
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,159
Speaker 1: to tell if this person is trained, if they've actually

543
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:28,639
Speaker 1: seen what they see, they can describe accurately whether they saw.

544
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 1: Nobody start to do that.

545
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,199
Speaker 2: He came out initially with this story, which was reported

546
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 2: by local reporter George Knapp, and then he sort of

547
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 2: retreated from a lot of the attention, and he sort

548
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 2: of emerged periodically to answer questions and then retreat back

549
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 2: into isolation again. Recently, there was a detailed documentary put

550
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,119
Speaker 2: out by Jeremy Corbel interviewing him and asking him a

551
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:51,399
Speaker 2: bunch of questions. But you know, I think that the

552
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:54,440
Speaker 2: scientific community feels like there's still a lot of unanswered

553
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 2: scientific questions about his claims.

554
00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, it sounds like it's all questions, all right, But

555
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 1: I think what you're trying to get to is that

556
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:08,359
Speaker 1: he claims that the US government had a lot of

557
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 1: Element one fifteen, and he claimed that it was somehow

558
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,640
Speaker 1: tied to the spaceship's abilities.

559
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:17,200
Speaker 2: To fly exactly. And the positive thing about Bob Bazar

560
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 2: is he tells a really really good story. It sounds

561
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 2: really good. I mean, you start digging into details and

562
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 2: you have questions that aren't answered, but it's a well

563
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 2: told story. It also lines up with other reports of

564
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:30,560
Speaker 2: like flashing lights people saw over the desert dot dot dot.

565
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,480
Speaker 2: The difficult part about Bob Blazar is that that's all

566
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 2: there is. There's just this story. He doesn't have a

567
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 2: piece of Elepment one fifteen. He doesn't have a piece

568
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 2: of the alien craft. He can't lead us to it.

569
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 2: You know, there's nothing physical, nothing hard, no concrete evidence

570
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,679
Speaker 2: he can point to or produce to show us that

571
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 2: a story is more than just a story.

572
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you could just he could describe as

573
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,160
Speaker 1: co workers, he could describe, you know, all these things

574
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:58,200
Speaker 1: that it could be verified. It seems pretty crazy anyone

575
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 1: would believe him with any of any of this proof.

576
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:01,879
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people will want to believe.

577
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 2: I mean I want to believe also it's a great story.

578
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 2: Wouldn't that be awesome?

579
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm noticing a lot of empathy here. Yeah, I'm

580
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:09,640
Speaker 1: here for Bob Blazaar.

581
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,399
Speaker 2: I do. I do because it's exactly the fantasy that

582
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,640
Speaker 2: I wish were true. Aliens come and have this technology

583
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 2: and we're busy reverse engineering it. Oh my gosh, how exciting.

584
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 2: But you got to engage your skepticism and be like,

585
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 2: all right, how do we know it's not just some

586
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:24,479
Speaker 2: dude with a story, Because there's lots of dudes out

587
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:26,920
Speaker 2: there with stories. They're usually called science fiction authors.

588
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,199
Speaker 1: So his claim is that element one fifteen is somehow

589
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 1: tied to anti gravity, So what's the connection there?

590
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 2: So basically, there is no connection as far as I'm

591
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 2: aware of now. Element one to fifteen is something that's real,

592
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:45,719
Speaker 2: something we've made, something we've studied. Anti gravity is a

593
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 2: real area of research. It's like something people are actually

594
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 2: trying to do. You and I had a whole podcast

595
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 2: episode about whether anti gravity is a real technology, whether

596
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 2: we could ever achieve it. There are people who have

597
00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 2: claimed to achieve anti gravity, and that's been debunked. Anti

598
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 2: gravity as a research area is real, and there are

599
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 2: some potentially some avenues you could explore. But I'm not

600
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 2: aware of any connection between anti gravity and element one fifteen.

601
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 2: We've made element one fifteen. It doesn't display any anti

602
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 2: gravity properties or any connection to any of the possible

603
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 2: directions for anti gravity.

604
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 1: Well, I can't make a connection. But since we're down

605
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 1: the rabbit hole, Daniel, if you were writing the science

606
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 1: fiction story here, what's it a connection would you make?

607
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 1: What kind of an excuse would you make to tie

608
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 1: element one to fifteen to anti gravity? Like, does the

609
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 1: number of protons somehow reach a special state where, somehow

610
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 1: anti gravity particles are generated?

611
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 2: You know, sound that was fantastic about.

612
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 1: Da YadA YadA antigravity?

613
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the mental YadA YadA YadA. Okay, Well, let's

614
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 2: do the exercise right. How might anti gravity be possible

615
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 2: in our understanding of it?

616
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 1: Yeah? I can tell you've thought about this and you've

617
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 1: already had an answer.

618
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you know, how can you achieve anti gravity? Well,

619
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 2: there's one idea that anti matter might have anti gravity.

620
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 2: Antimatter is like matter, but with the opposite charges. So

621
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 2: we have protons, we also have antiprotons. Antiprotons have opposite

622
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 2: electric charge. Anti electrons have the opposite electric charge of

623
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 2: an electron. Antimatter is a real thing, but because antimatter

624
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 2: is so rare, we haven't really verified that antimatter feels

625
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 2: gravity the way that matter does. Like it might be

626
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 2: that antimatter falls up and matter falls down. Antimatter might

627
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 2: have an anti gravity effect.

628
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 1: Wait, wait, is the idea that maybe an anti electron

629
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 1: has anti gravity, or is the idea that maybe there's

630
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 1: an electron out there that has anti gravity.

631
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 2: Now, the idea is that anti electrons might have anti

632
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 2: gravity and antiprotons might have anti gravity.

633
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 1: Because an anti electron has the opposite charge when electrons

634
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 1: to happen, and it also has the opposite of other

635
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 1: things than an an electron. Right, like quantum property is true.

636
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, it has the opposite weak and electric charges. It

637
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 2: doesn't have any strong force charges, so those are just

638
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 2: zero becas all of its quantum charges flipped. And since

639
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 2: we don't really understand gravity, we don't know like it's

640
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 2: gravity a quantum thing anyway? Is the mass, like the

641
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 2: quantum charge is that flipped? Does an anti electron have

642
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 2: negative mass or negative gravity? This is sort of like

643
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 2: big open questions. There's actually an experiment that's turned to

644
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 2: probe exactly this question. They've been playing with antimatter and

645
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 2: trying to see like does it fall up or does

646
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 2: it fall down. It's a surprisingly difficult question to answer

647
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 2: because antimatter is hard to make and gravity is super

648
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 2: duper weak. Particles have almost no mass. It's affected by

649
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 2: everything else out there that might be tugging on it.

650
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 2: Initial indications suggests that it's more likely that antimatter has

651
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 2: normal gravity, so you couldn't build anti gravity out of antimatter.

652
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 2: But it's you know, not totally ruled out, so it's

653
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 2: a basis for you know, plausible speculation. But even if

654
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 2: you go there, if you say antimatter might provide anti gravity,

655
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 2: I still don't even know how to YadA YadA YadA

656
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 2: that to element one fifteen because element one fifteen is matter.

657
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 2: Unless then I'm just thinking about this. Now they have

658
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 2: like antimatter element one fifteen, and that's what they've got

659
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 2: at area fifty one.

660
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 1: Oh I knew you had an answer for this, Daniel. Okay,

661
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 1: So now the Daniel theory here is that you can

662
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 1: have like anti carbon in antioxygen, meaning like if you

663
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 1: take a bunch of antiprotons, put them in a nucleus

664
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 1: with some anti neutrons I guess too, and anti electrons,

665
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 1: you can make a stable anti atom.

666
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 2: Probably a lot of that is speculative because we haven't

667
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 2: made big anti atoms before. You know, there aren't that

668
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 2: many protons, and doing fusion with antiprotons is tricky. But

669
00:32:57,640 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 2: in principle we think that the rules are the same

670
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 2: anti matter and matter in terms of those bonds. So yeah,

671
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 2: principle you could put together anti lead and anti uranium

672
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 2: and anti.

673
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 1: Moscovium because we've made anti hydrogen, haven't we Yeah, we have.

674
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 1: And so the theory is that it wouldn't be element

675
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 1: one to fifteen that's anti gravity, but maybe anti element

676
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 1: one fifteen.

677
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe Boblezar just got the sign wrong, you.

678
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 1: Know, Yeah, there you go, because he's not a real

679
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 1: engineer apparently.

680
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 2: Ooh, that's tough, man, that's tough.

681
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 1: But somehow this anti element one fifteen it gives you

682
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 1: anti gravity but not anti carbon or would anti carbon

683
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 1: also be anti gravity? Issues that somehow element one fifteen

684
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 1: is what would you say special about it?

685
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good question. And this theory anti carbon

686
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 2: will also give you anti gravity. Even anti hydrogen would

687
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 2: give you anti gravity because they would all have the

688
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 2: same relationship with gravity. Why would the aliens choose anti

689
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 2: matter versions of element one fifteen, I don't know. And

690
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 2: even in this speculation, element one fifteen thimeta version should

691
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 2: be just as unstable as the matter version of element

692
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 2: one fifteen. So if they did have five hundred pounds

693
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:09,799
Speaker 2: of it, very quickly they wouldn't They would decay down

694
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 2: to lower atomic elements.

695
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 1: Well, the government has apparently five hundred pounds of element

696
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 1: one fifteen, and there must be a way to make

697
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:17,880
Speaker 1: it stable in this fantasy world.

698
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:19,880
Speaker 2: There mustn't. There probably is a way to make it stable.

699
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 2: You know. For example, neutrons are not stable. If you

700
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 2: just have a bunch of them floating around in space,

701
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 2: but squeeze them down together into a neutron star, they

702
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 2: become stable. It's like a new state of matter. So

703
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:33,320
Speaker 2: if you have like pure element one fifteen as individual atoms,

704
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 2: they're not stable. The aliens are able to like squeeze

705
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:39,280
Speaker 2: them down into some like crystal of element one fifteen.

706
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 2: It could have different properties and that could create stability.

707
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:44,800
Speaker 2: That's possible, Yeah.

708
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:46,319
Speaker 1: And maybe that would make sense because you know, if

709
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:49,280
Speaker 1: you're trying to be anti gravity as much as possible,

710
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:51,719
Speaker 1: do you want the heaviest element that you can right

711
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:53,319
Speaker 1: It will make you float more.

712
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, so maybe element one to fourteen would work as well,

713
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 2: but an element one fifteen is like one percent better,

714
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 2: So might as well go for it because those aliens

715
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 2: they're really efficient.

716
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 1: I guess maybe a question is how would you control

717
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 1: the anti gravity force? Right, Like, if you have anti

718
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:10,839
Speaker 1: gravity and you're trying to land on the planet, that's

719
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:14,280
Speaker 1: a problem because the anti gravity element wouldn't lead you land.

720
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you have five hundred pounds of this stuff

721
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:18,839
Speaker 2: on your ship, then it's not going to be easy

722
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:20,920
Speaker 2: to turn on and off. But maybe if you could

723
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 2: control how it decays, you could like rapidly let it

724
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 2: decay down into something else and maybe even convert into

725
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 2: normal matter. You could flip its gravitational behavior, and then

726
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,719
Speaker 2: if you could somehow make it again, you could imagine

727
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 2: developing some control mechanism. If you could fabricate and dematerialize

728
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 2: this stuff pretty rapidly, I.

729
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:41,439
Speaker 1: Suppose you'd be like making it and breaking it down

730
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 1: to throttle how much you float.

731
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:46,840
Speaker 2: We are so far out on a speculative limb here. Yeah,

732
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:48,759
Speaker 2: I'll let the engineers develop that one.

733
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 1: We're already inside the rabbit holes, so.

734
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 2: So bibles are After this episode, he started a scientific

735
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 2: supply company, and in twenty seventeen the FBI rated his company.

736
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 1: Wait wait, wait, dides this actually happen or are you

737
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:03,279
Speaker 1: just making stuff up?

738
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 6: Now?

739
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 2: No, this actually happened.

740
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:06,240
Speaker 1: So after what do you mean after this episode?

741
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 2: After he became famous in nineteen eighty nine for all

742
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 2: of these claims. Then later on he founded this scientific

743
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 2: supply company, and at some point he got in trouble

744
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,239
Speaker 2: with the FEDS, and the FBI raided his company in

745
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 2: twenty seventeen. I won't say what they were looking for,

746
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 2: but there's a lot of speculation online that they were

747
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 2: looking for stolen bits of element one fifteen.

748
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 1: Whoa or something he stole from the lab. Then maybe yeah,

749
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 1: maybe it was a janitor in.

750
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 2: And so somebody actually got to ask Bob Blazaar. This

751
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 2: reporter Tim McMillan asked Bob blazar in directly whether he

752
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:43,360
Speaker 2: actually had a piece of element one fifteen, and Lazar's

753
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 2: response is, and I quote, if I had some, would

754
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 2: I reveal it to confirm my accounts absolutely not.

755
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:51,799
Speaker 1: Why not.

756
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:56,360
Speaker 2: Because it's more valuable than his credibility apparently.

757
00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 1: Hmmm, I thought you were going to say that. He

758
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 1: said that if I had it, I'll be flowing around,

759
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:03,359
Speaker 1: not stuck down here on Earth talking to you.

760
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:06,279
Speaker 2: I'll float that suggestion to Bobo's arm.

761
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 1: Well, I think there's an even bigger problem, which is

762
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:12,760
Speaker 1: that if you have five hundred pounds of an antimatter element,

763
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,759
Speaker 1: that is incredibly dangerous, right, because if it touches five

764
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 1: hundred pounds of real matter, you would have an explosion,

765
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:21,880
Speaker 1: probably bigger than a supernova.

766
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 2: Maybe, Oh yeah, that would be catastrophic. Even one gram

767
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 2: of antimatter like a raisin's worth, when colliding with a

768
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:31,800
Speaker 2: gram of matter, would release as much energy as a

769
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:35,319
Speaker 2: nuclear weapon. So five hundred pounds of the stuff would

770
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:36,239
Speaker 2: be devastating.

771
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 1: Would be how much listen to the math? Like a

772
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 1: million nuclear bombs or right, a billion nuclear bombs?

773
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 2: A quarter million nuclear weapons? WHOA, So yeah, that would

774
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 2: be pretty dramatic. Let's just hope nobody like trips and

775
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:50,360
Speaker 2: drops the stuff.

776
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:54,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's not give it to a random dude, because

777
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 1: even if he has a little bit of this antimatter element,

778
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 1: one fifteen. It would be extremely dangers It.

779
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 2: Would be very dangerous. If the government actually has this stuff.

780
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 2: I hope to have more responsible people dealing with it

781
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 2: than bah Blazar.

782
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 1: All Right, so maybe it's not made out of antimatter.

783
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:13,359
Speaker 1: That seems too dangerous. What other ideas do you have?

784
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 2: So in a sort of related way, there's a concept

785
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 2: of exotic matter. This is not antimatter. This is some

786
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 2: new kind of matter we've never seen before. But it

787
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:26,680
Speaker 2: would also have negative mass. And this comes out of

788
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:30,759
Speaker 2: the idea actually for wormholes. Wormholes are a theoretical way

789
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,760
Speaker 2: to get across the galaxy. Like maybe aliens have developed

790
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:37,799
Speaker 2: technology to avoid the light speed limit that's so frustrating

791
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:40,440
Speaker 2: that keeps us from getting from here to Alpha Centauri

792
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 2: or across the galaxy. By shortening those paths, by creating

793
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 2: connections between points in our space and in their space,

794
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 2: so you can go from here to there very quickly,

795
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 2: you don't actually have to travel all the way through

796
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 2: that space. That's what a wormhole is, just a connection

797
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 2: between two points in space. But if you do the

798
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:01,800
Speaker 2: math in general relativity for wormhole, it says, yeah, no problem,

799
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:05,040
Speaker 2: they can actually exist. It's not against the rules of

800
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:07,359
Speaker 2: physics as we know them. But if they do exist,

801
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 2: they collapse very very quickly, like they're not stable. The

802
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 2: only way to keep them around is to have some

803
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 2: sort of exotic matter with negative mass and a constant

804
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 2: beam of that stuff traveling through the wormhole. That would

805
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 2: provide some sort of like pressure to keep the wormhole open.

806
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:26,360
Speaker 2: So that's not evidence that negative mass exists, but it

807
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 2: is an idea in physics generated by the need to

808
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:29,720
Speaker 2: keep wormholes open.

809
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:32,400
Speaker 1: Wait, so to keep an wormhole open, you would have

810
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:35,839
Speaker 1: to keep shooting exotic matter with negative mass through it

811
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:37,840
Speaker 1: that would somehow keep it open, and then somebody you

812
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 1: would sneak into that stream and to get to the

813
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:41,879
Speaker 1: other side. Or what's the idea.

814
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 2: Here, Yeah, or maybe you could have stable exotic matter

815
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:46,800
Speaker 2: that lives inside the wormhole, or you have a stream

816
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 2: of it and then you can jump into that stream.

817
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:51,759
Speaker 2: Whether you could keep it open large enough to like

818
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 2: pass that ship through, or whether these would always be microscopic,

819
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 2: there's a whole other question. We did an episode about

820
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 2: whether macroscopic wormholes could even be kept open long enough

821
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 2: for a ship to pass through them, and whether the

822
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 2: tidal effects of the wormhole would anyway shred your ship

823
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:09,239
Speaker 2: as you went near it. That these things are like

824
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 2: far from being even theoretically practical, but it does involve

825
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:17,319
Speaker 2: this concept of negative mass exotic matter that has this

826
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:21,240
Speaker 2: like negative gravitational effect relative to real matter.

827
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:24,800
Speaker 1: Okay, so then what's the connection to element one fifteen

828
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 1: is the ideot element one fifteen would somehow turn into

829
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 1: exotic matter and have negative mass, or that you would

830
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:34,959
Speaker 1: have to build element one fifteen out of exotic matter.

831
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:38,319
Speaker 2: There is no real connection with element one fifteen, though,

832
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 2: I mean, we could be creative and come up with one,

833
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:43,320
Speaker 2: Like you just tried to scaffold between these two ideas,

834
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:46,319
Speaker 2: but there is no real connection between the two. But

835
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:50,280
Speaker 2: you know, for example, potentially element one fifteen isn't element

836
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 2: one fifteen. And what babbo'sar thought was element one fifteen

837
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 2: is actually something else, and it's exotic matter that has

838
00:40:56,239 --> 00:41:00,719
Speaker 2: properties similar to element one fifteen in some ways, and

839
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 2: so he was confused by it, or some other scientists

840
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:05,360
Speaker 2: mistook it for it to interesting.

841
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 1: What he thought was element with fifteen was really made

842
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 1: of particles that we don't even know about, Like it's

843
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:13,839
Speaker 1: not made out of protons and neutrons and microns. Maybe

844
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 1: it's made out of you know, urvanium.

845
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, or something else, right, lazarium. You know, our tendency

846
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 2: in physics is to explain everything we don't understand in

847
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 2: terms of what we do understand. So you're presented with

848
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:26,080
Speaker 2: some new kind of stuff, you want to say, well,

849
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 2: what element is it? What is it made out of?

850
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 2: And everything we've experienced is made out of some kind

851
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 2: of element, and so that's the first natural question. So

852
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:37,360
Speaker 2: you might interpret it incorrectly as element one fifteen. You know,

853
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:40,399
Speaker 2: those government scientists sometimes make mistakes, all.

854
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:42,799
Speaker 1: Right, So it seems like we don't really have an

855
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:44,920
Speaker 1: answer here to the main question. Can element one fifteen

856
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:48,480
Speaker 1: bes for anti gravity propulsion? It sounds like no physicist

857
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:51,080
Speaker 1: maybe has a way to link those two concepts.

858
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. I think the takeaway is that at the

859
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:56,880
Speaker 2: time Lazar was telling his story, element one fifteen was exotic,

860
00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 2: if something we hadn't made before, and so nobody could

861
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:02,320
Speaker 2: really verify his claims, much like most of his claims

862
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:04,560
Speaker 2: about what went on in secret that nobody can verify

863
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 2: because it was all in secret. Nobody could counter his

864
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 2: claims about one fifteen because we didn't know if it

865
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 2: could be created, We didn't know what it would be

866
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:14,520
Speaker 2: like it, so it seems sort of exotic and unreachable.

867
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:17,200
Speaker 2: Now that we have made element one fifteen, it doesn't

868
00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:20,319
Speaker 2: really line up with any elements of lazarre story at all.

869
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:23,920
Speaker 2: And so while it's still potentially possible that aliens have

870
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 2: like weird crystals of anti matter element one fifteen or something,

871
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 2: that his story is all true, that's certainly possible, there's

872
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:35,280
Speaker 2: nothing about our actual element one fifteen that we've created

873
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:37,920
Speaker 2: that lines up with his story or lends any credence

874
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:38,239
Speaker 2: to it.

875
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 1: So you're saying, basically science killed his buzz.

876
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:47,120
Speaker 2: I'm saying, we want to believe, but we need some proof.

877
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:49,879
Speaker 1: Man, you actually win and discovered this element and there's

878
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 1: nothing special about it.

879
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, science ruining everything since fifteen forty two.

880
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 1: And maybe he's gonna come out and say, oh, actually

881
00:42:57,040 --> 00:43:01,600
Speaker 1: I made element negative one to fifteen. I forgot about

882
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 1: the negative sign.

883
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:04,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, or two fifteen, like try to make that.

884
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:10,399
Speaker 1: Guys just keep going up. All right, Well, I guess

885
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 1: another interesting example of how there are still big unknowns,

886
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:18,279
Speaker 1: but as we make progress in science, we get to

887
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 1: figure out what's real and what's not, What deserves an

888
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 1: episode of The X Files, and what maybe deserves an

889
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:26,400
Speaker 1: episode of the ABC Files.

890
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:29,359
Speaker 2: Exactly we should rename this.

891
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 1: Podcast, We should call it the WI Files.

892
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:34,440
Speaker 2: Why are we even talking about this.

893
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:37,759
Speaker 1: Because we're always wondering why that's right?

894
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 2: Because our listeners wrote in and sincerely wanted to know

895
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,320
Speaker 2: what element had to do with anti gravity.

896
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:46,719
Speaker 1: All right, Well, we hope you enjoyed that. Thanks for

897
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:48,839
Speaker 1: joining us, See you next time.

898
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:56,719
Speaker 2: For more science and curiosity, come find us on social media,

899
00:43:56,840 --> 00:44:01,360
Speaker 2: where we answer questions and post videos. We're on Twitter, Discorg, Insta,

900
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 2: and now TikTok. Thanks for listening, and remember that Daniel

901
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 2: and Jorge Explain the Universe is a production of iHeartRadio.

902
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

903
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.