WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 182 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:03.080 Media. 0:00:03.320 --> 0:00:05.760 Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let 0:00:05.800 --> 0:00:09.480 you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:12.719 of the week that just happened is here in one 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:16.560 convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:19.040 listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:21.000 you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:22.759 there's going to be nothing new here for you, but 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:28.320 you can make your own decisions. Welcome back to It 0:00:28.360 --> 0:00:32.400 Could Happen Here, a podcast about it happening here, which 0:00:32.440 --> 0:00:35.839 is normally focused on the United States because that's where 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:38.720 we all live. However, we do like to cover the 0:00:38.760 --> 0:00:41.879 rest of the world and the ongoing struggle against the 0:00:41.920 --> 0:00:44.440 global far right movement. And today we're going to talk 0:00:44.440 --> 0:00:48.280 about a place that we don't cover often on this show, Ireland. 0:00:48.560 --> 0:00:50.559 And it's not because Ireland doesn't have a problem with 0:00:50.600 --> 0:00:54.640 the far right, because as our guest today is going 0:00:54.720 --> 0:00:57.960 to talk to us about it, most certainly does. And 0:00:57.960 --> 0:01:00.320 so I would like to welcome to the program a 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:03.680 great guy, Padre O'Rourke, author of Burned Them Out, A 0:01:03.800 --> 0:01:06.640 History of Fascism and the far Right in Ireland. Thank 0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:08.000 you so much for being on the show. 0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:10.520 No problem, delice to be here, Thanks very much, Robert. 0:01:11.360 --> 0:01:14.240 Yeah, you know, there's this attitude, and I think, as 0:01:14.280 --> 0:01:15.880 you noted in some note use of the long, there's 0:01:15.920 --> 0:01:18.920 a degree to which it's true that Ireland has some 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:23.000 resistance to the far right that has led to maybe 0:01:23.040 --> 0:01:26.039 it growing slower or taking a little longer to get 0:01:26.080 --> 0:01:27.679 off the ground to the same extent that it has 0:01:27.720 --> 0:01:30.160 in the UK or the US as a result of 0:01:30.400 --> 0:01:33.280 kind of the history of Irish republicanism. That that's not 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:37.039 comprehensively true across the island, and that that's you know, 0:01:37.120 --> 0:01:41.360 certainly has not stopped it from having some pretty significant problems, 0:01:41.360 --> 0:01:42.720 which we're going to talk about today. 0:01:43.520 --> 0:01:48.120 Yeah. Sadly, as long as fascism has existed since Mussolini's 0:01:48.360 --> 0:01:51.080 March on Rome and his political rise, we have had 0:01:51.560 --> 0:01:54.360 fascist groups here of one sort or another. Yeah, We've 0:01:54.400 --> 0:01:57.440 had fascist groups in Ireland that were pro British and politics, 0:01:57.480 --> 0:02:00.680 fascist groups in Ireland that were pro Irish or Irish independence. 0:02:01.160 --> 0:02:04.000 You know, obviously we were neutral during World War Two. 0:02:04.080 --> 0:02:07.200 We weren't occupied by Nazi Germany or anything like that. 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:10.040 We did have one very big fascist group here in 0:02:10.040 --> 0:02:13.920 the nineteen thirties, the Blue Shirts, who were extremely violent 0:02:14.000 --> 0:02:16.680 and got sixty eight members of Parliament elected. They were 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:19.280 the main political opposition. They were kind of the largest 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:23.400 non governing fascist organization in the world per capita. But 0:02:23.520 --> 0:02:26.960 as you said, Irish republicanism has kind of inoculated us 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:29.440 against a lot of the far right stuff we'd have 0:02:29.480 --> 0:02:33.680 seen in Britain and Germany and France in the nineties because, 0:02:34.160 --> 0:02:36.720 you know, while the conflict was going on in the 0:02:36.760 --> 0:02:39.720 North of Ireland. Basically, if you were an angry young 0:02:39.760 --> 0:02:42.920 man with very strong patriotic feelings who was given towards 0:02:42.919 --> 0:02:46.760 political violence, he would probably end up in the provisional IRA. 0:02:47.240 --> 0:02:50.400 And their politics were very left wing and internationalist. I 0:02:50.400 --> 0:02:53.960 mean I remember going into their political wing Shinfein's bookshop 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:56.959 in Dublin in the nineteen nineties and it was all 0:02:56.960 --> 0:02:59.920 pictures of you know, yes Er Arafat, and it was 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:04.760 pictures of Nelson Mandela and like the Zapatis stays, and 0:03:04.880 --> 0:03:08.399 you know, it was very much about Irish independence being 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:12.360 an anti colonial struggle. You do, of course get like 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:14.840 on the opposite side of that, on kind of the 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:17.799 loyalist pro British side in the North. You did get 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:21.480 as kind of reaction to that, pro British paramilitaries, the 0:03:21.560 --> 0:03:26.639 Ulster Volunteer Force, the UDA, Ulster Defense Association, the Ulster 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:29.480 Volunteer Force, the UVF. They would have linked up with 0:03:29.960 --> 0:03:33.240 neo Nazi groups like Combat eighteen in England to get guns, 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:35.720 to get finances, to get their hands on explosives and 0:03:35.760 --> 0:03:38.080 things which were easier to get in England than in 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:40.840 the North of Ireland. But really we never had a 0:03:40.920 --> 0:03:43.600 party here, either in the North or in the South 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:46.760 that was as successful as groups like the Front National 0:03:46.920 --> 0:03:51.560 in France or the British National Party in England. But 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:54.840 sadly in recent years, certainly in the last ten years, 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:58.600 the far right are kind of back. They're alive and kicking, 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:01.200 and they're taken to the streets. 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:03.480 And so what do you credit that? I mean, it 0:04:03.480 --> 0:04:05.600 seems like there's a mix of things. First off, you 0:04:05.680 --> 0:04:09.080 suddenly do have people immigrating into Ireland from elsewhere in 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:12.880 the world in significant numbers for you know, the first 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:15.440 time in quite a while. And then on the other head, 0:04:15.480 --> 0:04:18.120 it sounds like there's also the kind of as we 0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:20.880 see everywhere in the world, the conscious exporting of far 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:23.680 right figures and ideas into the country. 0:04:24.480 --> 0:04:27.800 Yeah, well, Ireland's greatest export was always people, and you know, 0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:32.039 a fewge Irish American communities in you know, Chicago, New York, 0:04:32.720 --> 0:04:37.279 you know, all over Irish people in Australia and Canada 0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:40.080 and England, all over the continent. So in the early 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:42.760 you know, twenty tens, we started, like there had always 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:45.800 been a trickle of migration and people coming back and forward, 0:04:45.960 --> 0:04:49.480 like we had some you know, Vietnamese refugees here, we 0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:52.760 had you know, historically we had Russian Jews coming here 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:56.240 and so on escaping programs in Zaras, Russia. But really 0:04:56.279 --> 0:04:58.320 the first time that we had very large numbers of 0:04:58.360 --> 0:05:00.919 people coming was in the tw anti teens, and it 0:05:00.960 --> 0:05:04.400 was things like the Mediterranean migrant crisis, it was people 0:05:04.520 --> 0:05:08.000 fleeing climate change in Africa, the Syrian civil War, Teleiban 0:05:08.040 --> 0:05:12.160 in Afghanistan, and more recently, of course Putant's invasion of Ukraine. 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:15.119 And the far right have always been these tiny little 0:05:15.160 --> 0:05:18.520 fringe parties and figures. It was a very active anti 0:05:18.560 --> 0:05:22.280 fascist group here called Anti Fascist Action Ireland. And anytime 0:05:22.320 --> 0:05:24.600 these groups tried to organize or take to the streets, 0:05:24.600 --> 0:05:27.359 they were challenged and they were run off but really 0:05:27.400 --> 0:05:29.839 what brought them all together Ireland's kind of attempt to 0:05:29.920 --> 0:05:33.920 unite the right was the COVID nineteen pandemic because we 0:05:33.960 --> 0:05:38.280 had one of the strictest COVID lockdowns in Europe. You're 0:05:38.320 --> 0:05:41.600 talking about. Originally you weren't allowed to travel more than 0:05:41.600 --> 0:05:44.600 two kilometers from your home. That's one of the quarter 0:05:44.680 --> 0:05:48.599 miles for you Americans. And basically you could go to 0:05:48.640 --> 0:05:51.400 the store, but other than that, you couldn't, you know, 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:54.200 you couldn't travel very far. And of course everyone was 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:57.600 locked at home with their with their internet and started 0:05:57.640 --> 0:05:59.960 going down the rabbit hole. And what we saw was 0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:04.600 the anti vaxer COVID conspiracy movement took to the streets 0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:08.000 in Ireland very quickly, and that brought together all of 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:13.000 the disparate tiny far right and neo fascist factions. The 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:17.760 closet neo Nazis, the anti vaxers, the fundamentalist Catholics like 0:06:17.839 --> 0:06:21.840 the Society of Saint Pias, the tenth, the sovereign citizen types, 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:24.000 you know, the people who were on about five G 0:06:24.200 --> 0:06:27.440 conspiracies and chemtrails, all got onto the streets, all got 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:30.039 active on the Irish left and the anti fascist side. 0:06:30.040 --> 0:06:32.279 We kind of dropped the ball because we were following 0:06:32.320 --> 0:06:35.240 the healthcare advice and the cops were quite happy to 0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:39.240 ignore the far right mobilizing on the street. But there 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:42.680 were striking workers like Debenhams and Clearis who'd been striking 0:06:42.800 --> 0:06:45.560 before COVID struck, and the cops were going up and 0:06:45.600 --> 0:06:48.200 moving these trade union assan saying, you know, you're breaking 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:52.120 the pandemic. So it wasn't released evenly, and you know, suddenly, 0:06:52.160 --> 0:06:54.480 for the first time during the pandemic, we were starting 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:57.640 to see groups of three four hundred far right in Dublin, 0:06:57.760 --> 0:07:00.000 which doesn't sound like much, but I mean last week 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:02.919 there was a march in Dublin City and they had 0:07:03.200 --> 0:07:07.080 probably around five thousand, maybe up to ten thousand people marching, 0:07:07.160 --> 0:07:09.840 and that's something we haven't seen here since the nineteen thirties. 0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:13.480 Yeah, and that's such I think an important point. The 0:07:13.520 --> 0:07:16.000 degree to which, because this is a global issue, the 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:20.200 degree to which everyone else attempting to abide by public 0:07:20.240 --> 0:07:24.320 safety measures during COVID nineteen strengthened the far right because 0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:27.600 they were out in the streets. It's kind of organizing 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:29.920 equivalent of getting to steal a march on the enemy. 0:07:30.480 --> 0:07:32.280 It makes sense to me that it was because in 0:07:32.320 --> 0:07:34.800 the US that was interrupted at least by the George 0:07:34.800 --> 0:07:38.080 Floyd uprisings. But in Ireland, you know, it seems like 0:07:38.080 --> 0:07:40.360 there was a much more significant period of time where 0:07:40.400 --> 0:07:44.000 these folks were essentially acting and organizing unopposed, and the 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:47.080 police were, when they chose to act at all, acting 0:07:47.120 --> 0:07:49.520 against folks on the opposite side of things who were 0:07:49.800 --> 0:07:51.040 organizing during COVID. 0:07:51.600 --> 0:07:54.520 Yeah, it was like kind of run belong to the police. 0:07:54.680 --> 0:07:56.840 The cops didn't really start taking action on any of 0:07:56.880 --> 0:08:00.000 this stuff until I would say it was nearly November 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:04.560 twenty twenty three when they had this rally called I 0:08:04.640 --> 0:08:06.800 think it was called to the Doll or maybe slightly 0:08:06.800 --> 0:08:09.320 earlier than that, in September twenty twenty three. The Doll 0:08:09.400 --> 0:08:14.240 is the Gaeacord for our Parliament, and basically the dregs 0:08:14.280 --> 0:08:17.160 of the COVID movement kind of came together again. You 0:08:17.200 --> 0:08:21.160 had all these tiny far rice and fascist parties popping up, 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:23.280 and the best thing about them is they all get 0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:25.600 into furier fights. They all start arguing with each other 0:08:25.640 --> 0:08:28.000 about who's going to be the leader, and they haven't united. 0:08:28.320 --> 0:08:31.240 But they took to the streets in the autumn in 0:08:31.280 --> 0:08:34.200 the fall of twenty twenty three, and there was one 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:39.520 really violent and disgusting riot outside the outside the Parliament 0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:43.640 where the far right were throwing bottles of your line 0:08:43.679 --> 0:08:46.880 at politicians trying to get in, were shouting racial abuse 0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:49.960 at anybody who wasn't white, who was working in the 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:54.240 building as a cleaner or a parliamentary assistant or anything. 0:08:54.320 --> 0:08:57.240 Any opposition politicians they could see, they were screaming at 0:08:57.280 --> 0:09:01.160 them in imitation of you guys. And January the sixth, 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:03.800 they had built a mock noose and they were using 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:08.560 it to hang effigies of politicians. And you also had 0:09:08.679 --> 0:09:11.000 police cops being attacked for the first time by the 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:13.240 fire right. Really there's been one or two other incidents, 0:09:13.280 --> 0:09:16.760 but it's only when cops started getting attacked by them 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:20.840 and politicians were being directly their safety was being threatened, 0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:23.640 then the cops started to act, maybe in the last 0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:26.520 eighteen months or so, but it was really closing the 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:30.120 stable door about five years after the violent fire right 0:09:30.160 --> 0:09:31.319 horse had already bolted. 0:09:31.720 --> 0:09:35.160 Yeah, and you know, so I'm kind of thinking here, 0:09:35.760 --> 0:09:38.880 this is part of why you've started to see, you know, guys, 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:42.520 like we started this conversation before being recording talk about 0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:46.560 Tucker Carlson coming over to talk to Connor McGregor, who's 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:49.760 becoming an increasingly large part of this. And I wonder 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:52.200 if it's if it's maybe these these different kind of 0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:55.360 international folks in the international movement sort of sniffing that, 0:09:56.200 --> 0:09:59.120 you know, they're hoping that the cancer his metastasize, so 0:09:59.200 --> 0:10:00.920 to speak. I mean, is that kind of what you 0:10:01.120 --> 0:10:01.800 how you see it? 0:10:02.320 --> 0:10:06.359 Well, they definitely have an influence here. I mean, the politics, 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:09.640 the talking points, the buzzwords that the far right use 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:13.720 in Ireland have all been learned from the likes of 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:18.360 Alec Jones, have all been learned from watching you know, 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:23.560 crazy stuff on Twitter. And it's all American and British 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:26.880 far right talking points that are being replayed here. Stuff 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:30.040 about the Clergy Plan, stuff about the Great Replacement and 0:10:30.720 --> 0:10:32.880 so on. I mean, one hundred years ago was the 0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:35.120 Protocols of the Elders of Zion and now they're just 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:38.959 spinning the same conspiracy, same talking points again. Like for example, 0:10:39.000 --> 0:10:41.559 one of the things we had here was we had 0:10:41.880 --> 0:10:45.960 a party called the Irish People's Party and some of 0:10:46.000 --> 0:10:51.360 our campaigners were really fundamentalist Latin mass set of acantas Catholics, 0:10:51.400 --> 0:10:54.480 and they were going down and protesting about drag queen 0:10:54.640 --> 0:10:58.000 story time at Irish libraries. We don't even have drag 0:10:58.120 --> 0:11:01.959 queen story time. Yeah, I have been so inspired by 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:03.800 what was happening in America and I just went in 0:11:03.880 --> 0:11:08.080 and started taking books off the shelves, you know, and 0:11:08.760 --> 0:11:13.400 anything to do with Annie LGBT Plus team, even basic 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:16.920 sex education guides for kid's stuff. That's pretty mild. I'm 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:20.160 perfectly happy to give my own my own kids, and 0:11:20.200 --> 0:11:22.640 I'm not the most woke guy. But they'd start ripping 0:11:22.679 --> 0:11:24.640 them up, they'd start taking them out of the library, 0:11:24.679 --> 0:11:28.920 filming themselves burning books at home. It was really crazy stuff. 0:11:29.000 --> 0:11:32.120 And at that stage again you did get anti anti 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:35.520 fascist organizing. But what you kind of get is figures 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:38.760 like Connor McGregor being amplified by the likes of Elon 0:11:38.880 --> 0:11:42.679 Musk being amplified by you know, Tucker Carlson coming over 0:11:42.760 --> 0:11:45.640 interviewing him, or Donald Trump of course inviting him to 0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:49.160 the to the White House, I mean the Prime Minister 0:11:49.240 --> 0:11:52.480 of Ireland, as we'd say, gay like the teacher Mehall Martin. 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:55.959 He was invited to the White House on the twelfth 0:11:56.000 --> 0:11:58.640 of March. But the guy that Trump chose to actually 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:02.320 have there on Patrick's dage itself was, of course, Connor McGregor. 0:12:02.640 --> 0:12:06.920 And McGregor has links to I wouldn't say far right figures, 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:10.240 but certainly very populous figures. And McGregor has kind of 0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:13.080 started he's become God killed, and he started rambling on 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:17.400 about you know, rosary beads and the power of Christ 0:12:17.440 --> 0:12:19.120 and all this kind of stuff. And he doesn't strike 0:12:19.200 --> 0:12:22.160 me as a particularly religious man. And now with the 0:12:22.200 --> 0:12:27.480 help of Tcer Carlson, you know, and and Elon Muskin others, 0:12:27.480 --> 0:12:29.240 he says he's going to run for president, and we 0:12:29.280 --> 0:12:31.600 have a presidential election coming up here in six months. 0:12:31.720 --> 0:12:33.760 Did you watch the interview, Robert. 0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:36.120 No, No, I haven't yet. I caught some clips of 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:38.320 it all on social media. Yeah, but I haven't gotten 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:39.360 to sit through the whole thing. 0:12:39.800 --> 0:12:43.720 It's wild. Bears absolutely no resemblance like what Connor puts 0:12:43.760 --> 0:12:46.560 across bears no resemblance to what's actually happening in Ireland. 0:12:46.640 --> 0:12:49.720 Like he started ranting about how the police are so corrupt. 0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:53.640 Element that's true, but he starts talking about how the 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:56.840 traffic core, the road cops who give you like speeding 0:12:56.840 --> 0:12:59.840 tickets and stuff. They're the most violent and repressive and 0:12:59.840 --> 0:13:02.160 all all this kind of stuff, and it just so 0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:07.360 happens that Connor McGregor has a string of speeding violations 0:13:07.400 --> 0:13:10.400 in his sports cars. And then Tucker Carlson chips in 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:12.760 and says, Oh, my god, you've got these armed cops 0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:15.920 and they're they're repressing the Irish people, but they're letting 0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:18.880 these immigrants do whatever. My dad was a copier for 0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:20.880 thirty years. My dad was on the border in the 0:13:20.960 --> 0:13:23.280 nineteen seventies with the IRA shooting at him and he 0:13:23.280 --> 0:13:26.080 didn't even get a gun. Our cops aren't armed. But 0:13:26.559 --> 0:13:30.440 Carlson is just throwing this stuff out being educated about it, 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:33.120 and he says at the very end of the interview, 0:13:33.240 --> 0:13:36.719 McGregor says, Oh, there's been a government kind of hit 0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:39.200 job on me. They're planning to bring me down. What 0:13:39.280 --> 0:13:42.360 he's referring to is a civil trial now, not a 0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:46.040 criminal trial. A civil trial that Connor McGregor lost when 0:13:46.120 --> 0:13:49.600 he was brought to court for alleged rape and sexual 0:13:49.600 --> 0:13:53.200 assault and the jury believed he's accuser. A woman called 0:13:53.240 --> 0:13:57.680 a hairdresser called Nikita Hand, and Connor McGregor was forced 0:13:57.720 --> 0:14:00.120 to pay damages of a quarter of a million euro 0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:03.160 to her, plus costs in the Irish High Court, which 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:06.000 are about one and a half million euro. Now to 0:14:06.040 --> 0:14:07.720 you or me, that would be you sum of money. 0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:10.280 To Connor McGregor, that's nothing. And I have to say, 0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:13.600 for legal reasons he is appealing it. But the reality 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:16.240 is that standing in the way of any political ambitions 0:14:16.240 --> 0:14:19.160 Connor McGregor has, And we just had here in the 0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:22.800 last six hours last year. We had a local election 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:27.640 for like local councils, a general election, a European parliamentary election, 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:30.080 any one of those. All he needed to do was 0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:32.040 put up one hundred and fifty quid and he could 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:35.080 have stood. He would be on the ballot. In fact, 0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:37.920 under Irish electoral law, he could have stood in every 0:14:38.000 --> 0:14:42.560 single constituency in the country. And he didn't stand for election. 0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:45.520 And now he's complaining that he's being debarred from the 0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:49.000 Irish presidential race and he's not. It's just it's an 0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:51.720 exceptionally difficult ballot to get on. 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:52.720 You can't just. 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:55.920 Stump up the money in America and become her party 0:14:55.960 --> 0:14:58.920 candidate or a writing candidate or whatever. That doesn't work here. 0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:02.960 You need this sport of a large number of democratically 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:06.360 elected politicians to get there. So I think McGregor's relaying 0:15:06.840 --> 0:15:10.520 is not to get into the presidency, because really he can't. 0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:12.200 He's not even going to be on the ballot. But 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:15.360 I think he wants to be Arland's Arland's answer to 0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:17.920 Tommy Robinson. And I suppose if Tommy Robinson is the answer, 0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:18.960 what the hell was the question? 0:15:19.640 --> 0:15:21.880 Yeah, well, we'll get into that more in a second. 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:23.720 I do want to throw to ads here really quickly, 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:25.720 and then we'll continue to talk about Connor for a 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:38.600 moment we're back. So you say he wants to be 0:15:39.240 --> 0:15:42.520 the Irish answer to Tommy Robinson, which is such a 0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:49.120 like I'm a higher man like that. It's odd to me, 0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:51.880 Like I had kind of I had kind of been 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:54.480 worried because we've had so many cases of guys in 0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:57.720 the United States who start out as these absolute jokes 0:15:57.760 --> 0:15:59.720 on the far right and then you just see them 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:04.040 pick up more and more attention over time, and that 0:16:04.160 --> 0:16:06.480 was kind of my worry with Connor. But but you're 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:08.920 saying you're kind of concerned more that he's going to 0:16:09.000 --> 0:16:11.240 continue to be like an organizing presence on the far 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:13.800 right rather than someone who has much of a chance 0:16:13.840 --> 0:16:16.400 of picking up actual like political office. 0:16:16.720 --> 0:16:16.960 Yeah. 0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:19.880 I think with Connor it's it's all about his ego, 0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:22.640 which is probably what you'd expect from an MMA star. 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:24.400 You know, there's going to be an element of you know, 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:27.520 ego and show voting and kfab and so on. I 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:30.040 mean it's interesting and he's interview with Tucker Carlson. He 0:16:30.160 --> 0:16:33.040 was giving out that the Minister of Education, you know, 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:35.760 isn't a teacher, they're unqualified for the job. And the 0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:39.480 Irish government's Minister for Health isn't a doctor. And it's like, well, 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:42.120 what qualifies you to be president Connor? You're a former 0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:44.760 plumber turned for MMA fighter, you know. 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:46.720 Yeah, getting hit in the face. Yeah. 0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:50.440 And we've had ministers of Education who were teachers and 0:16:50.480 --> 0:16:52.520 ministers of health who were doctors who happened to be 0:16:52.600 --> 0:16:55.720 totally awful. The reality is like, we have a pr system. 0:16:55.760 --> 0:16:59.040 We've you know, very democratic and fair process, and we 0:16:59.120 --> 0:17:02.000 have more than the two parts system here. But I think, 0:17:02.200 --> 0:17:06.000 like as emerged during the during that Civil Right trial 0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:08.960 which McGregor lost. You know, he had to admit to 0:17:09.040 --> 0:17:12.880 his cocaine use during it. He has been sending out 0:17:12.960 --> 0:17:16.879 kind of fevered I would imagine cocaine fever trip tweets 0:17:16.880 --> 0:17:19.239 saying as President of Ireland, I have the power too. 0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:22.000 And it's like, man, the election hasn't even happened yet 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:25.840 he's way ahead of himself. He's not going to get 0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:28.399 in the ballot. He knows that he wants to present it. 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:30.680 And I mean the fact that he's even talking about 0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:33.560 getting in the ballot shows he doesn't understand the constitutional 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:36.040 system here, which it's not like Britain. We have a 0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:38.800 written constitution. It's not that complex if you know the 0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:41.000 basics of the law. He's never going to get in 0:17:41.000 --> 0:17:42.840 the ballot, but he wants to present it that he's 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:46.960 been denied the opportunity to stand. And unfortunately, what we 0:17:47.040 --> 0:17:51.520 have around the country is an increasingly violent anti immigrant 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:55.919 street movement that whenever these what we call him here 0:17:56.000 --> 0:18:02.240 ipass in International Protection Applicant services, these IPA or refugee centers. Basically, 0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:06.080 when these are picked as places of accommodation by the 0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:10.400 government while these people's applications for refugee status or they 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:13.119 have to stay somewhere while these are being examined, you 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:17.120 tend to get large protests in towns, villages, cities all 0:18:17.160 --> 0:18:21.159 over Ireland. Sometimes he's turned quite violent. Sometimes there's been 0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:24.159 more than thirty arson attacks on these centers. And I 0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:27.439 think what Connor McGregor ultimately wants is he wants to 0:18:27.440 --> 0:18:31.000 be able to tour the country attending these protests and 0:18:31.040 --> 0:18:33.520 having everyone queuing up to take selfies with him and 0:18:33.560 --> 0:18:36.359 telling him what a great hero he is. And I 0:18:36.960 --> 0:18:38.520 think that's he's ultimately. 0:18:38.480 --> 0:18:40.120 Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. 0:18:40.119 --> 0:18:42.240 And he's obviously he's going to grift off the back 0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:44.159 of it. The guy has money already. But it was 0:18:44.200 --> 0:18:48.119 so funny this multime multi millionaire being interviewed by Tucker 0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:51.200 Carlson saying we're going to start fundraising from my campaign. 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:53.040 It's like, man, you have more money than you could 0:18:53.040 --> 0:18:56.239 ever spend on political posters and buyers and adverts. You know. 0:18:57.119 --> 0:18:59.880 So it almost sounds like this is like a retire 0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:03.080 plan for him, right, Like he's he's he's clearly past 0:19:03.160 --> 0:19:05.520 his prime in terms of the getting hit in the 0:19:05.520 --> 0:19:08.440 face thing for money, and now he's sort of moving 0:19:08.480 --> 0:19:10.720 on to like drifting off of these far right events 0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:14.200 and probably traveling just ahead of a series of riots, 0:19:14.280 --> 0:19:17.000 you know, Like that's that's seems like what's in his future. 0:19:17.400 --> 0:19:20.520 Yeah, And I mean we've had some you know, at 0:19:20.560 --> 0:19:23.959 the time of an outbreak of rioting in Dublin antimorgan 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:27.119 violence which caused twenty million euros worth of damage and 0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:30.520 you know, trash the city center in November of twenty 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:33.239 twenty three Connor and I'm not saying he directly caused it, 0:19:33.280 --> 0:19:35.359 but he was tweeting at the same time Ireland as 0:19:35.400 --> 0:19:37.520 a war, yeah, and around the same time he was 0:19:37.520 --> 0:19:41.800 tweeting like any property that's been taken over by foreigners evaporated. 0:19:42.160 --> 0:19:44.280 I think really his plan is to kind of if 0:19:44.280 --> 0:19:49.640 he can represent himself as a political martyr figure. He's 0:19:49.720 --> 0:19:54.200 hoping that it will overshadow the you know, his loss 0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:56.480 in the rape case, and he is a course appealing 0:19:56.520 --> 0:19:58.600 that and claiming he has new evidence and everything. But 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:00.280 I think really that's what it's both. 0:20:01.040 --> 0:20:03.920 Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about the way 0:20:04.080 --> 0:20:07.600 far right violence has looked in Ireland like these when 0:20:07.640 --> 0:20:10.560 these protests have really kicked off, because it seems like 0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:15.119 there's been this kind of fairly significant acceleration in the 0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:17.840 last three or four years in terms of it, particularly 0:20:17.960 --> 0:20:20.200 arsen attacks, and one thing that I was kind of 0:20:20.240 --> 0:20:22.919 struck by in your notes was the degree to which, like, 0:20:22.960 --> 0:20:25.719 no one's been arrested for any of these yet. 0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:29.520 No, what happens. These started around twenty eighteen, so maybe 0:20:29.560 --> 0:20:32.360 just before COVID you had one or two of them. 0:20:32.600 --> 0:20:37.120 And my book went to print in December twenty twenty four, 0:20:37.200 --> 0:20:39.879 so I stopped counting in December, and by then I 0:20:39.920 --> 0:20:42.719 had over thirty arson attacks and there hasn't been a 0:20:42.760 --> 0:20:46.840 single conviction for any of them. So it's when usually 0:20:46.880 --> 0:20:49.880 former hotels that have been closed down with years are 0:20:50.320 --> 0:20:53.840 that the government moves in or some local person moves 0:20:53.880 --> 0:20:55.600 in to renovate them and use them as one of 0:20:55.640 --> 0:20:57.800 these centers. They'll just go up and smoke in the 0:20:57.840 --> 0:20:59.879 middle of the night. And I mean, we have all 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:04.240 ready a very significant homeless problem here. I mean there's 0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:07.520 more than ten thousand people homeless in Dublin, both Irish 0:21:07.560 --> 0:21:10.679 and refugee, and I mean that probably sounds small to 0:21:10.720 --> 0:21:13.000 someone listening in a big American city. We thought we 0:21:13.000 --> 0:21:15.760 had a housing crisis when we had two thousand people homeless, 0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:18.600 and we got more than ten almost fifteen thousand people 0:21:18.600 --> 0:21:23.840 homeless now. And some of these anti immigrant protesters have 0:21:23.960 --> 0:21:28.600 actually burnt down homeless accommodation designed for Irish homeless people 0:21:29.119 --> 0:21:31.080 in the mistake and belief that it was going to 0:21:31.080 --> 0:21:34.679 be used for refugees. Yeah, so that's their contribution to 0:21:34.920 --> 0:21:39.600 the housing crisis. You've also seen stuff like attacks on politicians' homes. 0:21:39.720 --> 0:21:43.359 Sometimes it's just pickets, sometimes it's graffiti. In the case 0:21:43.400 --> 0:21:47.400 of Martin Kenny, who's an opposition TD, he'd be from 0:21:47.560 --> 0:21:50.240 shin fein Alrety. Most of your listeners would probably have 0:21:50.520 --> 0:21:52.879 heard of an Irish Republican, kind of left wing Irish 0:21:52.920 --> 0:21:57.400 Republican party. There was a refugee center plan for where 0:21:57.400 --> 0:22:00.480 he lived in Leitrim, and in fairness to he spoke 0:22:00.480 --> 0:22:04.679 out against it and he condemned what he called, quote 0:22:04.680 --> 0:22:06.919 the far right ideology that has been peddled in this 0:22:06.960 --> 0:22:10.280 country about asylum seekers. A week later, he was sleeping 0:22:10.280 --> 0:22:12.680 in his house with his wife and kids, and his 0:22:13.440 --> 0:22:16.479 car in the driveway was petrol band was firebombed and 0:22:16.600 --> 0:22:18.439 they came back a few months later and did it 0:22:18.440 --> 0:22:21.040 again and he was forced to move house. So arson 0:22:21.080 --> 0:22:23.760 attacks and politicians homes is something we haven't seen here 0:22:23.800 --> 0:22:26.720 since the original fascists were around in the thirties as well. 0:22:27.240 --> 0:22:30.359 And this violence. Again, like as I said, there hasn't 0:22:30.359 --> 0:22:32.439 been a single arrest. And I give you a perfect example. 0:22:32.520 --> 0:22:35.720 The title for the book Burned Them Out, is from 0:22:35.840 --> 0:22:38.119 an event that happened in February twenty twenty three. A 0:22:38.160 --> 0:22:41.160 guy stood up in front of a Garda police station 0:22:41.320 --> 0:22:43.920 here in Fingles, which would be a big suburb of Dublin, 0:22:44.240 --> 0:22:47.439 and there was a huge crowd of anti immigrant protesters around. 0:22:47.720 --> 0:22:50.360 One of them was waving a swastika flag and this 0:22:50.400 --> 0:22:52.920 guy stood up in front of them with a megaphone 0:22:52.920 --> 0:22:55.040 in front of the police station said there is no 0:22:55.119 --> 0:22:58.240 point standing here outside of Garda station. The only way 0:22:58.280 --> 0:23:00.920 to deal with refugees is to burn them out. Go 0:23:01.119 --> 0:23:04.320 where they're fucking staying and burn them fucking cunts out. 0:23:04.600 --> 0:23:07.479 That's a direct quote. And of course, had he been 0:23:07.480 --> 0:23:10.320 threatening that violence against the guardy, had he been threatening 0:23:10.359 --> 0:23:13.480 that violence against a private business or a politician, I 0:23:13.600 --> 0:23:16.080 have no doubt he would have been arrested straight away. 0:23:16.359 --> 0:23:19.480 But this you know, masked guy threatening violence in Arson 0:23:19.600 --> 0:23:20.480 was just allowed. 0:23:20.200 --> 0:23:21.320 To walk off. 0:23:21.760 --> 0:23:24.560 So there you go. They're certainly not on the ball. 0:23:24.600 --> 0:23:28.560 And we've even had during the COVID pandemic when there 0:23:28.600 --> 0:23:31.160 was a cop nearly killed that had a fireworks shot 0:23:31.160 --> 0:23:33.919 at him during one of these riots. The police commissioner 0:23:34.040 --> 0:23:36.399 in the South of Ireland, who's formerly a member of 0:23:36.440 --> 0:23:40.840 the Royal Ulster Constabulary, a very controversial pro British police 0:23:40.840 --> 0:23:42.760 force that used to be in the North. This guy's 0:23:42.760 --> 0:23:45.199 our new police commissioner down south, and he tried to 0:23:45.200 --> 0:23:49.280 blame Republicans and the IRA for the violence and left 0:23:49.280 --> 0:23:51.480 wing extremists for the violence that was happening. And it 0:23:51.560 --> 0:23:55.440 was so clear that you know, Republicans, Irish Republicans have 0:23:55.520 --> 0:23:58.360 been on the streets opposing these people and their marches 0:23:58.359 --> 0:23:58.879 for years. 0:23:59.320 --> 0:24:01.960 Yeah, let's talk about that a little bit. Like the 0:24:02.359 --> 0:24:07.240 actual organizing of the anti fascist movement in Ireland, how 0:24:07.680 --> 0:24:12.040 is it kind of responded to the mean explosion in 0:24:12.080 --> 0:24:15.159 some cases a literal explosion in far right violence on 0:24:15.200 --> 0:24:18.000 the street, Like are you seeing it kind of reach 0:24:18.560 --> 0:24:20.639 like new Heights or does it kind of seem like 0:24:20.680 --> 0:24:25.080 it's unprepared for the moment that we're hitting, because, like 0:24:25.520 --> 0:24:27.560 I mean, in the United States, it's kind of hard 0:24:27.560 --> 0:24:30.960 to tell because things have changed so much since twenty twenty, right, 0:24:31.040 --> 0:24:34.040 Like a lot of the fascist violence that we're seeing 0:24:34.119 --> 0:24:37.240 is now explicitly from the state, and so there's just 0:24:37.320 --> 0:24:40.000 not a lot of on the ground. There's not the 0:24:40.040 --> 0:24:42.040 same kind of on the ground response to it that 0:24:42.080 --> 0:24:43.920 you were seeing when it was groups like the Proud Boys. 0:24:43.920 --> 0:24:46.160 And I'm wondering kind of how things have changed since 0:24:46.200 --> 0:24:48.920 twenty eighteen in that regard in Ireland. 0:24:49.000 --> 0:24:52.240 I suppose, like if you think back as far as 0:24:52.320 --> 0:24:56.359 twenty fifteen, Tommy Robinson, friend of the Pod, attempted to 0:24:56.440 --> 0:25:01.560 organize He's Anti Islamic, He's Islamophobic Pigida movement right to 0:25:01.640 --> 0:25:04.480 launch a branch of it in Dublin, and they couldn't 0:25:04.520 --> 0:25:06.920 even get to their rallying point because there were five 0:25:07.000 --> 0:25:10.400 thousand anti fascists on the street there against them, Irish Republicans, 0:25:10.760 --> 0:25:15.920 Irish language activists, Muslim community from Dublin were their LGBT activists, 0:25:15.960 --> 0:25:18.840 and they couldn't even get to have their events. So 0:25:18.960 --> 0:25:22.000 up until COVID, certainly the anti fascists and groups like 0:25:22.040 --> 0:25:25.959 Anti Fascist Action Ireland were excellent at closing down small groups. 0:25:26.520 --> 0:25:29.520 You have a lot of people who are doing online 0:25:29.560 --> 0:25:35.160 research and exposing these people sorted histories and their international connections. 0:25:35.560 --> 0:25:37.479 So that's one thing we're pretty good at. And what 0:25:37.480 --> 0:25:39.359 it turns out is that a lot of these guys, 0:25:39.800 --> 0:25:42.600 like one of the main proponents of the QAnon conspiracy 0:25:42.720 --> 0:25:46.439 theory here was a guy called Rowan Croft who just 0:25:46.480 --> 0:25:49.480 happened to be a former British Army soldier. So that 0:25:49.560 --> 0:25:52.320 doesn't fly too well in Ireland from somebody standing up 0:25:52.400 --> 0:25:54.760 saying I'm a gait Irish patriot and I'm going to 0:25:54.800 --> 0:25:56.960 stop the foreigners, Like, well, hang out a minute. When 0:25:56.960 --> 0:25:59.040 you chose to fight in the military, you chose to 0:25:59.080 --> 0:26:03.280 serve the Queen of So you have big national groups 0:26:03.359 --> 0:26:06.440 like Anti Fascist Action, you have groups like Anti Imperialist 0:26:06.480 --> 0:26:10.360 Action Ireland. Thankfully, as these protests have sprung up around 0:26:10.440 --> 0:26:13.800 the country, these fair right, anti imigrant protests, they have 0:26:13.920 --> 0:26:17.960 always been countered. And I'm thinking of in Cork City 0:26:18.240 --> 0:26:21.080 when the library was being attacked and it actually had 0:26:21.080 --> 0:26:23.159 to be closed down for a period, and it was 0:26:23.200 --> 0:26:26.120 the first time that the Cork Library had closed since 0:26:26.160 --> 0:26:28.359 the British burnt it down during our revolution in the 0:26:28.440 --> 0:26:31.840 nineteen twenties. And you know, you had a crowd of 0:26:31.840 --> 0:26:35.119 maybe one hundred far right and people on the opposite side. 0:26:35.560 --> 0:26:38.320 The anti fascist scene kept building and building until by 0:26:38.359 --> 0:26:40.160 the end, and I was there for some of these protests, 0:26:40.160 --> 0:26:42.680 we had four or five hundred against them, and eventually 0:26:42.680 --> 0:26:45.360 we decided, right, we're going to stand and protect the library. 0:26:45.640 --> 0:26:48.080 And that happened in another places like Limerick, and it 0:26:48.160 --> 0:26:50.879 happened in Dublin, and eventually the far rights said, well, 0:26:50.920 --> 0:26:52.679 we can't even get near the library to have our 0:26:52.720 --> 0:26:56.560 protest anymore, and they dissipated. One thing that's very interesting 0:26:56.600 --> 0:26:59.520 here is the optics and sometimes on the lefts and 0:26:59.520 --> 0:27:01.720 on the anti fascist side, we're not as good at 0:27:01.760 --> 0:27:04.800 the imagery and the using new technology and stuff. And 0:27:04.880 --> 0:27:07.399 one thing you'll always see is, you know, when anti 0:27:07.440 --> 0:27:10.879 fascists are mobilizing in Ireland, you know they'll have often 0:27:11.000 --> 0:27:14.760 red flags, they'll have the Palestinian flag, they'll have Irish 0:27:15.000 --> 0:27:17.680 left wing Republican flags like the plow and the stars. 0:27:18.080 --> 0:27:20.960 But often we don't carry our national flag the Try 0:27:21.000 --> 0:27:23.560 color as much. And of course the far right love 0:27:23.640 --> 0:27:26.959 fetishizing flags and they have the green, white and orange 0:27:26.960 --> 0:27:29.719 Irish Try color everywhere. Often. Of course these people are 0:27:29.760 --> 0:27:31.720 so ignorant they fly it the wrong way around and 0:27:31.760 --> 0:27:34.240 it's the orange, white and green, so it's like vive 0:27:34.240 --> 0:27:36.960 lookout Divoir. It's the Ivory Coast flag if you have 0:27:37.040 --> 0:27:40.399 it the wrong way. But it's interesting in some of 0:27:40.440 --> 0:27:44.280 the clashes you'll have anti fascists with the Irish flag 0:27:44.320 --> 0:27:46.080 and fascists with the Irish flag. But I think just 0:27:46.119 --> 0:27:49.120 in terms of optics, it sometimes looks very bad when 0:27:49.160 --> 0:27:51.200 the far right are able to clip out a section 0:27:51.560 --> 0:27:54.880 of the opposing crowd and say, look, they have Palestinian flags, 0:27:55.080 --> 0:27:58.320 they have all other LGBT Pride flags, but they're not 0:27:58.400 --> 0:28:00.280 proud to be Irish. They don't have Irish fla and 0:28:00.280 --> 0:28:02.600 there could be some Irish flags kipped off at the stide. 0:28:02.680 --> 0:28:04.760 So these people in the far right are very good 0:28:04.760 --> 0:28:08.440 at using the history of Irish politics and resistance to Britain, 0:28:08.560 --> 0:28:11.400 and using the imagery of that struggle and co opting it. 0:28:11.600 --> 0:28:13.679 And I think it's very important that we on the 0:28:14.160 --> 0:28:16.919 on the anti fascist side don't surrender any of that 0:28:17.080 --> 0:28:19.439 to them. And I mean the Irish flag what it 0:28:19.480 --> 0:28:22.959 stands for. The green bit is for Catholics who wanted independence, 0:28:23.000 --> 0:28:25.480 the orange bit is for Protestants who wanted to be 0:28:25.520 --> 0:28:27.919 linked with Britain, and the white ones for peace and unity. 0:28:28.040 --> 0:28:30.240 So it's a flag that and it's for the essence, 0:28:30.600 --> 0:28:34.480 you know, talks about respecting a religious minority of people 0:28:34.560 --> 0:28:38.600 from a colonial or immigrant background who arrived here a strangers. 0:28:38.960 --> 0:28:40.800 Yeah. Yeah, well I want to I want to continue 0:28:40.800 --> 0:28:43.320 this discussion and then close things out. But first we've 0:28:43.360 --> 0:28:56.880 got one more ad break to do and we're back. 0:28:57.200 --> 0:28:59.400 So yeah, I kind of wanted to end this by 0:28:59.400 --> 0:29:02.080 looking into a like what are you kind of looking 0:29:02.120 --> 0:29:04.640 for in the future, like in the in the kind 0:29:04.640 --> 0:29:08.160 of the next year or two in Ireland, like you, 0:29:08.200 --> 0:29:11.520 what are you expecting? What are you worried to see? Like, yeah, 0:29:11.960 --> 0:29:14.280 what do you kind of see? Cut moving forward here. 0:29:14.840 --> 0:29:17.880 I think what's tending to happen now is genius out 0:29:17.880 --> 0:29:21.720 of the bottle and far right messages spreading. And you 0:29:21.800 --> 0:29:24.560 had this big far right rally of you know, ten 0:29:24.640 --> 0:29:27.560 thousand and five to ten thousand people at its maximum 0:29:27.600 --> 0:29:30.800 that came down O'Connell Street in Dublin, the main street 0:29:30.840 --> 0:29:35.040 in the capital city. It's not huge by political standards, 0:29:35.040 --> 0:29:36.920 but it is worrying. I think we're going to see 0:29:36.920 --> 0:29:40.720 that grow. And I think on the left sometimes and 0:29:40.760 --> 0:29:43.640 particularly in the trade union movement, we have this idea 0:29:43.680 --> 0:29:45.240 that all this is a flash in the pan and 0:29:45.280 --> 0:29:47.400 will organize a few big rallies and they'll go away. 0:29:47.560 --> 0:29:49.959 They won't. This is like the National Front in Britain. 0:29:50.360 --> 0:29:52.640 You know, these people are going to be around haunting 0:29:52.640 --> 0:29:55.000 Irish politics for least a decade, and then they're never 0:29:55.040 --> 0:29:58.360 going to fully go away, that they'll pop back up again. 0:29:58.960 --> 0:30:01.719 I think we're going to continue to see the regional protests, 0:30:02.280 --> 0:30:05.360 and I think as well we have started seeing the 0:30:05.360 --> 0:30:09.920 Irish government, which is a coalition of two center right parties, 0:30:10.360 --> 0:30:13.720 kind of tighten up their own language on immigration. We're 0:30:13.760 --> 0:30:18.160 starting seeing an increasing number of deportations as well. The 0:30:18.200 --> 0:30:21.400 police really still aren't fully on the ball. They are, 0:30:21.440 --> 0:30:24.040 of course being given new policing powers by the government 0:30:24.080 --> 0:30:26.880 to deal with violent protests. They are being issued with 0:30:26.960 --> 0:30:30.760 things like, you know, new non legal technologies, you know, 0:30:30.880 --> 0:30:34.560 peppers play and extra equipment and body cameras that they 0:30:34.560 --> 0:30:37.280 wouldn't have had before. But of course the classic thing 0:30:37.360 --> 0:30:39.760 is that these will always be used as much, if 0:30:39.800 --> 0:30:42.320 not more so against the left and the anti fascist 0:30:42.360 --> 0:30:47.160 side than they will be against the racists. Thankfully, these groups, 0:30:47.440 --> 0:30:50.120 you know, they're all in fighting with each other. They 0:30:50.160 --> 0:30:53.520 have tried to do like electoral paths and to plan 0:30:53.600 --> 0:30:57.080 out political strategies. But thankfully they're all so fixated on 0:30:57.200 --> 0:30:59.640 wanting to be the furire that never really works. But 0:31:00.120 --> 0:31:01.680 going to say a minute ago, is that that ten 0:31:01.720 --> 0:31:04.040 thousand people, if there were that many on the street. 0:31:04.440 --> 0:31:07.040 Not everyone in that is far right. You know, some 0:31:07.120 --> 0:31:09.360 of the people are from working class communities that have 0:31:09.480 --> 0:31:13.120 been betrayed by the government and have been abandoned, and 0:31:13.280 --> 0:31:16.200 they are starting they've just fallen down the rabbit hole. 0:31:16.320 --> 0:31:18.400 And I can think of an incident. I was in 0:31:18.200 --> 0:31:21.760 the gym a couple of months back and just sitting there, 0:31:21.800 --> 0:31:23.400 and there were a few guys. Didn't know they were 0:31:23.400 --> 0:31:25.800 around chatting. Obviously we were in the gym. None of 0:31:25.920 --> 0:31:28.160 us are in the sauna. None of us had many 0:31:28.160 --> 0:31:30.840 clothes on, and none of these guys had like questionable 0:31:30.880 --> 0:31:34.080 far right tattoos or anything like that. But the conversation 0:31:34.200 --> 0:31:37.120 suddenly started about immigrants and how they were bringing crime 0:31:37.200 --> 0:31:39.600 and how they were bringing disease and all this kind 0:31:39.680 --> 0:31:41.520 of stuff. And I listened to it for a minute 0:31:41.560 --> 0:31:43.120 or two and I just stood up and said, lads, 0:31:43.360 --> 0:31:46.680 everything you are saying about immigrants in Ireland now is 0:31:46.720 --> 0:31:49.800 what was said about Irish people in America in the 0:31:49.880 --> 0:31:53.640 nineteenth century and in England in like the seventies and 0:31:53.720 --> 0:31:56.760 the eighties. So I think it's important that even in 0:31:56.800 --> 0:31:59.320 our workplace is on public transport, when we hear it 0:31:59.640 --> 0:32:01.920 this the talk we call it out if it's a 0:32:01.920 --> 0:32:04.480 friend of ours who's fallen down the rabbit hole into 0:32:04.520 --> 0:32:07.120 these conspiracies, because that's how their message is spreading. 0:32:07.160 --> 0:32:07.360 Now. 0:32:07.440 --> 0:32:10.120 Often when you see people involved in some of this 0:32:10.400 --> 0:32:13.480 anti immigrant rioting, they have no history of involvement in 0:32:14.520 --> 0:32:17.479 far right groups, but it's that message has spread beyond 0:32:17.520 --> 0:32:21.280 those groups thanks to our friends in the nerd Reich. 0:32:21.720 --> 0:32:23.760 And I think if we have a work colleague or 0:32:23.800 --> 0:32:26.400 a brother or somebody who falls into that that we 0:32:26.440 --> 0:32:29.400 don't abandon them. We don't immediately start calling them a 0:32:29.480 --> 0:32:32.440 Nazi and whatever that We try to talk talk them 0:32:32.480 --> 0:32:34.480 round to it. But look, I suppose the thing is 0:32:34.560 --> 0:32:37.840 there is hope, and everywhere these people have organized, there 0:32:37.840 --> 0:32:41.040 have been anti fascists there to meet them. I think 0:32:41.120 --> 0:32:42.960 we need to get better at planning that in a 0:32:43.040 --> 0:32:45.680 national scale. Of course, on the left you always get 0:32:45.680 --> 0:32:48.560 this fascialism and in fighting. I'm not standing beside him, 0:32:48.600 --> 0:32:50.960 he's tratskis well, I don't like his views in the north. 0:32:51.080 --> 0:32:53.080 Whatever we need to kind of say, as long as 0:32:53.080 --> 0:32:56.280 we're fighting with each other, the fascists are winning, thankfully. 0:32:56.360 --> 0:32:58.479 None of these people have ever gotten more than two 0:32:58.560 --> 0:33:01.600 percent in an election. They have nobody elected in our 0:33:01.680 --> 0:33:05.680 national Parliament. They only have four or five, maybe six 0:33:05.840 --> 0:33:09.560 councilors elected in the entire of the southern part of 0:33:09.600 --> 0:33:11.720 the country. And that's out of nine hundred and forty 0:33:11.840 --> 0:33:14.240 nine councilors. But we can't just laugh at them. We 0:33:14.280 --> 0:33:17.400 can't worry the sisatle threat because when the Nazis stood 0:33:17.440 --> 0:33:19.120 for election the first time, I think they only got 0:33:19.120 --> 0:33:21.000 two percent of the vote as well, and look how 0:33:21.080 --> 0:33:21.880 that turned out. 0:33:22.360 --> 0:33:24.640 Well, yeah, and as we've seen in the US, like 0:33:24.760 --> 0:33:28.960 what starts as this tiny, tiny number of freaks and 0:33:29.000 --> 0:33:32.080 weirdos can wind up being a mass movement if it's 0:33:32.120 --> 0:33:35.720 not you know, cauterized, right Like that's and that's that's 0:33:35.800 --> 0:33:38.440 kind of the challenge in front of Irish anti fascists 0:33:38.520 --> 0:33:43.120 right now is ensuring that that cauterization happens absolutely. 0:33:43.240 --> 0:33:45.160 And I mean, look, if you think of this, you know, 0:33:45.520 --> 0:33:48.200 Elon Musk has Tip McGregor for president, and we're all 0:33:48.280 --> 0:33:50.760 laughing at it now, but you know it wouldn't be 0:33:50.760 --> 0:33:53.760 the first time that Elon Musk has tipped a reality 0:33:53.840 --> 0:33:57.280 TV star with a questionable sexual and criminal history for 0:33:57.600 --> 0:33:58.760 high office and they got. 0:33:58.640 --> 0:34:02.480 There, right, Yeah, yeah, yeah, well, thank you so much. 0:34:02.520 --> 0:34:04.040 Do you want to have anything you want to plug 0:34:04.080 --> 0:34:05.320 here at the end of the episode, I mean your 0:34:05.360 --> 0:34:06.160 book obviously. 0:34:06.360 --> 0:34:10.080 Yeah, well obviously I'm not I'm not on ex Twitter 0:34:10.280 --> 0:34:12.960 anything like that. I don't have a substack or anything. 0:34:13.280 --> 0:34:14.880 So just the main thing I want to plug is 0:34:15.200 --> 0:34:17.920 my book Burned Them Out, a history of fascism and 0:34:17.960 --> 0:34:20.960 the far right in Ireland. It is published by Bloomsbury, 0:34:21.040 --> 0:34:23.480 head of Zeus, so it should be available in any 0:34:23.840 --> 0:34:26.319 to order via any bookshop obviously. If you are going 0:34:26.320 --> 0:34:29.120 to support a bookshop, support a small independent one Roger 0:34:29.160 --> 0:34:32.000 than Barnes and Noble. And if you are buying it online, 0:34:32.000 --> 0:34:36.240 obviously buy it from direct from the publishers Bloomsbury. Don't 0:34:36.280 --> 0:34:38.439 buy it off Amazon if you can, because god knows 0:34:38.480 --> 0:34:39.840 Jeff Besis has enough money. 0:34:40.040 --> 0:34:44.960 Yeah, there's certainly bloody well, thank you so much, and 0:34:45.239 --> 0:34:48.759 yeah that's our episode. Everybody come back tomorrow when we'll 0:34:48.800 --> 0:35:06.799 have another one. 0:35:10.440 --> 0:35:12.440 Welcome to that and here a podcast, and I forgot 0:35:12.440 --> 0:35:15.000 to write an introduction for I'm your host, Miya Wong, 0:35:15.640 --> 0:35:18.319 and we are well, okay, we're not taking a break 0:35:18.320 --> 0:35:20.880 from the horrors, because this is also still a podcast 0:35:20.880 --> 0:35:23.399 about the horrors and what you can do about it. 0:35:23.880 --> 0:35:27.239 But you know, I am a transgender. One of the 0:35:27.239 --> 0:35:32.040 ways that we have been like depersonified via transgender is 0:35:32.120 --> 0:35:35.799 through a you know, a massive attack on trans like 0:35:35.880 --> 0:35:39.719 trans women in sports. And this has led to, you know, 0:35:39.840 --> 0:35:42.319 like the acceleration of like the broad scale attack on 0:35:42.480 --> 0:35:45.359 all of us being able to exist as people. And 0:35:45.480 --> 0:35:47.319 with me to talk about this is someone who has 0:35:47.320 --> 0:35:49.640 written a book that is about this and also kind 0:35:49.640 --> 0:35:52.160 of not about this in a lot of ways, and 0:35:52.200 --> 0:35:55.399 that is Victoria Ziller, who is a writer author writes 0:35:55.440 --> 0:35:58.160 about the Buffalo bills for our friends over at Defector 0:35:58.239 --> 0:36:00.840 sometimes and is the author of a new book What 0:36:00.920 --> 0:36:03.840 are the Boys Out Today? When you're listening to this, wow, 0:36:04.080 --> 0:36:07.440 crazy wild, Yeah it is it has syncd upe like 0:36:07.480 --> 0:36:09.800 this completely on purpose. We were one hundred percent planning 0:36:09.800 --> 0:36:12.640 this from the beginning. Hello, thank you for having me. 0:36:12.960 --> 0:36:14.560 Yeah, I'm excited to have you on. 0:36:15.120 --> 0:36:17.560 So you would think that the question that your book, 0:36:17.600 --> 0:36:20.640 one of the boys asks is what if a transchool 0:36:20.640 --> 0:36:22.960 played football? But the actual and more important question to 0:36:23.040 --> 0:36:25.560 ask is what if a poster could write fiction? And 0:36:25.600 --> 0:36:27.200 the answer is that it fucking rips? 0:36:27.360 --> 0:36:27.680 Thank you? 0:36:28.640 --> 0:36:31.680 Is this this book rules? I Jenuily. I think this 0:36:32.120 --> 0:36:34.719 is the best written group chats I've ever read in 0:36:34.719 --> 0:36:37.279 a book. It rips it so good. 0:36:38.000 --> 0:36:41.120 I am very passionate about group chats, you know. I 0:36:41.120 --> 0:36:45.000 mean like posting is writing. Hello audience. If you don't 0:36:45.040 --> 0:36:48.680 know me, my name is Victoria. I'm online. You may 0:36:48.760 --> 0:36:52.760 know my Twitter or blue Sky accounts at dirtbag Queer. 0:36:53.280 --> 0:36:56.840 I'm like largely posting about football when football is in season. 0:36:57.120 --> 0:36:59.560 I kind of just post about random shit these days. 0:36:59.800 --> 0:37:04.839 But yeah, I've allegedly written a book. The weird thing 0:37:04.840 --> 0:37:06.560 about writing a book is that I feel like I've 0:37:06.600 --> 0:37:08.960 just totally blacked out actually writing it. And I'm like, 0:37:09.000 --> 0:37:13.480 that's crazy. Who did that? Couldn't be me? But yeah, 0:37:13.680 --> 0:37:16.279 in terms of like how I would like very quickly pitch. 0:37:16.320 --> 0:37:19.480 One of the boys, high school senior named Grace comes 0:37:19.480 --> 0:37:22.560 back to her high school football team. She quit over 0:37:22.600 --> 0:37:24.799 the summer because she came out as trans because her 0:37:24.920 --> 0:37:27.200 teammates want to make a push for a state title, 0:37:27.640 --> 0:37:30.720 and it's like trans coming of age, Friday Night Lights 0:37:30.840 --> 0:37:34.920 handshake meme. But also when I was like big picture 0:37:35.200 --> 0:37:37.160 thinking about what I wanted to do with this, I 0:37:37.160 --> 0:37:39.520 wanted to tell kind of a like traditional high school 0:37:39.560 --> 0:37:44.480 sports story, but through an outsider lens. Like if you 0:37:44.719 --> 0:37:46.960 think about the average like high school football story, you 0:37:46.960 --> 0:37:48.919 think like, well, what we're gonna do is we're gonna 0:37:48.920 --> 0:37:50.879 win state, we're gonna get the scholarship, and we're gonna 0:37:50.880 --> 0:37:52.920 get the girl. And I wanted to sort of like 0:37:53.480 --> 0:37:58.279 deconstruct those three things by making the protagonist trans and 0:37:58.360 --> 0:38:02.880 making the protagonist a instead of like linebacker or a 0:38:02.960 --> 0:38:06.399 quarterback or whatever, and that is who I am. 0:38:06.600 --> 0:38:08.680 Yeah, and this this book rips that sounds like a 0:38:08.680 --> 0:38:10.400 fun thing going on where it basically has like the 0:38:10.400 --> 0:38:13.160 football iceberg, where like you can come into us knowing 0:38:13.280 --> 0:38:14.960 zero ball and you will get stuff out of it. 0:38:15.040 --> 0:38:17.200 And you can come into this where I am knowing 0:38:17.239 --> 0:38:19.279 like a some ball and you will get some out 0:38:19.280 --> 0:38:22.000 of this. And then like the unhinged people who have 0:38:22.120 --> 0:38:25.480 like sixteen different PFF tabs like pinned their bookmarks will 0:38:25.520 --> 0:38:27.320 be like holy shit, the world building. 0:38:27.520 --> 0:38:32.320 Yeah, yeah, that was h it is. It is hard 0:38:32.400 --> 0:38:36.480 writing fiction about sports if you're writing young adult fiction, 0:38:36.880 --> 0:38:38.960 you know, which is what one of the boys is. 0:38:39.600 --> 0:38:42.040 Don't be weird about that. If you're an adult, teenage 0:38:42.040 --> 0:38:44.480 girls are like, oh, you don't have to hate the 0:38:44.520 --> 0:38:47.839 things they like. You can like call down a little bit. Uh, 0:38:48.120 --> 0:38:52.520 But yeah, writing about football for an audience of like 0:38:52.560 --> 0:38:56.719 teenagers is like fascinating because you have to assume that 0:38:56.800 --> 0:38:58.680 the audience knows very little and you have to figure 0:38:58.719 --> 0:39:01.239 out how much you want to give them so that 0:39:01.239 --> 0:39:04.160 they get it without like overwhelming them, which is like 0:39:04.600 --> 0:39:06.640 really just not at all what I wanted to do. 0:39:06.880 --> 0:39:10.600 But also, yeah, if you're a sicko like me, you 0:39:10.600 --> 0:39:14.080 can be like, ooh, I'm really into what this offense 0:39:14.200 --> 0:39:16.920 is doing, or I am really into this like onside 0:39:17.000 --> 0:39:21.440 kick play design. So I tried to, like do I 0:39:21.440 --> 0:39:23.560 tried to do a little bit of both. And also, again, 0:39:24.360 --> 0:39:28.120 this is a transcoming of age story, so yeah, it's 0:39:28.120 --> 0:39:32.520 also dealing with you know, the horrors. So yep, ball 0:39:32.560 --> 0:39:35.560 plus horrors is what we're working with here. 0:39:36.360 --> 0:39:38.600 Yeah, so I think, okay, we're going to get more 0:39:38.640 --> 0:39:40.839 into the politics of this in a second But first 0:39:40.880 --> 0:39:43.600 I want to ask one ball question since I have NOWBT, 0:39:44.200 --> 0:39:46.320 I have now introduced my audience to the fact that 0:39:46.360 --> 0:39:48.480 I talked about football by managing to get a rant 0:39:48.480 --> 0:39:50.560 about de Sean Watson on here for like ten minutes, 0:39:51.360 --> 0:39:54.239 the Sewn Watson trade. But okay, my one ball question 0:39:54.280 --> 0:39:55.960 for this was how happy did it make you when 0:39:55.960 --> 0:39:57.600 you figure out a way to write a football team 0:39:57.600 --> 0:39:59.040 that does not use the forward pass? 0:39:59.480 --> 0:39:59.680 Oh? 0:39:59.719 --> 0:40:00.200 Man? 0:40:00.480 --> 0:40:07.920 Uh, it's without without spoiling what happens at the end 0:40:07.960 --> 0:40:11.480 of the act one turn, circumstances occur so that this 0:40:11.560 --> 0:40:15.239 high school football team has to move a player who 0:40:15.280 --> 0:40:19.279 is who is not a quarterback two quarterback, at which 0:40:19.320 --> 0:40:22.520 point passing just goes away and we are just running 0:40:22.560 --> 0:40:26.319 the ball, baby, we are we we are pounding the rock. 0:40:26.920 --> 0:40:31.160 It's so sick. It is kind of sort of like loosely, 0:40:31.200 --> 0:40:34.799 what I based this on was the year that the 0:40:35.160 --> 0:40:38.640 University of Kentucky football team, like all like every single 0:40:38.680 --> 0:40:42.360 quarterback got hurt and they were like, Okay, Lynn Bowden, 0:40:42.520 --> 0:40:44.759 you are our best wide receiver. We're just gonna put 0:40:44.760 --> 0:40:47.680 you a quarterback and you know, we're just gonna see 0:40:47.680 --> 0:40:50.680 what happens. And that's like that was the fun of 0:40:51.320 --> 0:40:54.000 writing fictional football is that I can make my fictional 0:40:54.040 --> 0:40:56.160 football team do whatever I want, and I don't want 0:40:56.200 --> 0:41:00.680 to ever see conservative trickery that is the forward pass, 0:41:00.840 --> 0:41:01.560 get it out of here. 0:41:04.320 --> 0:41:05.640 Yeah. This is one of the things I love about 0:41:05.640 --> 0:41:07.640 you're writing is that you are very much just like 0:41:07.680 --> 0:41:10.839 an old school like traditionalist football pound of the rock, 0:41:11.120 --> 0:41:13.799 like none of this, like none of none of this 0:41:13.920 --> 0:41:16.879 fuck an RPO bullshit person which is which is also 0:41:17.040 --> 0:41:20.160 I don't know, it's just very funny that you have 0:41:20.320 --> 0:41:22.799 like you have like the football personality of like an 0:41:22.840 --> 0:41:27.160 extremely cranky, like seventy five year old like coach from 0:41:27.320 --> 0:41:28.480 like the seventies. 0:41:28.640 --> 0:41:32.279 Yeah, and I'm a trans woman yeah in rules, which 0:41:32.360 --> 0:41:34.920 like again I tried not to do too much of 0:41:34.960 --> 0:41:37.160 it in this book. Like part of the reason that 0:41:37.200 --> 0:41:39.600 I made my main character a kicker, which we will 0:41:39.600 --> 0:41:42.120 also talk about other reasons later, but part of the 0:41:42.120 --> 0:41:45.640 reason is that kicking is this sort of like own 0:41:45.800 --> 0:41:48.200 separate salad off thing. So I really only have to 0:41:48.320 --> 0:41:51.840 like get the audience to understand kicking and what happens 0:41:51.840 --> 0:41:53.560 when Grace is on the field. I don't have to 0:41:53.600 --> 0:41:58.319 get into like what a football team that like never 0:41:58.360 --> 0:42:01.600 passes the ball, like is doing a technical level. We 0:42:01.640 --> 0:42:03.799 don't have to do all that. I give you just 0:42:03.960 --> 0:42:07.120 enough that if you are a sickoh, you're like, yeah, baby, 0:42:07.600 --> 0:42:08.440 like this rules. 0:42:08.480 --> 0:42:10.240 This is the sickest offense of all time. 0:42:11.480 --> 0:42:16.279 But also yeah, but also like you know, trying to 0:42:17.280 --> 0:42:22.160 trying to help the queer kiddos understand that, like running 0:42:22.160 --> 0:42:29.440 the ball is the official football position of the working class, 0:42:29.600 --> 0:42:31.080 of the poltariat. 0:42:31.440 --> 0:42:31.640 You know. 0:42:35.520 --> 0:42:38.200 Okay, we're going to get more into the class dynamics 0:42:38.280 --> 0:42:40.200 of football the second. But the place I kind of 0:42:40.200 --> 0:42:42.839 want to start in terms of, like you know, talking 0:42:42.880 --> 0:42:44.759 about the parts of us at art just ball is 0:42:45.640 --> 0:42:47.520 so in a lot of ways, this is a book 0:42:47.640 --> 0:42:51.600 about scriptlessness, which is something that I think, I don't know, 0:42:51.719 --> 0:42:54.040 like we've been seeing a sort of resurgence of trends 0:42:54.160 --> 0:42:59.359 or not resurchens, but I kind of like surgeants, emergence, emergence, 0:42:59.400 --> 0:43:01.800 there we go, there we go, there we go. Yeah, 0:43:01.840 --> 0:43:04.240 of transliterature, and I think this is a very interesting 0:43:04.239 --> 0:43:06.560 angle to take on it. And it's you know, when 0:43:06.560 --> 0:43:08.879 I say scriplessness, it's about the ways in which trans 0:43:08.880 --> 0:43:12.719 women in particular don't have you know, sort of examples 0:43:12.719 --> 0:43:15.279 and paths to like follow. Right, there's not like a 0:43:15.440 --> 0:43:16.800 you're supposed to go from A to B two C. 0:43:16.960 --> 0:43:19.160 This is like what you're doing with your life and 0:43:19.200 --> 0:43:22.440 you have to just figure it out because suddenly you're 0:43:22.560 --> 0:43:24.719 you and you just you just have to you know, 0:43:24.880 --> 0:43:26.799 there's no rails, there's no guide, You just have to 0:43:26.800 --> 0:43:29.360 do it. I think the Sapatista line about it is 0:43:29.640 --> 0:43:32.440 that the road is made by walking. Can you talk 0:43:32.480 --> 0:43:36.120 about how like having to just figure the shit out 0:43:36.200 --> 0:43:38.160 influence the way that you write Grace and the way 0:43:38.160 --> 0:43:39.320 that you sort of write this book. 0:43:39.760 --> 0:43:44.319 Yeah, So this is something that Grace struggles with a lot. 0:43:44.400 --> 0:43:48.120 I mean, like specific to her, it's because she's a 0:43:48.160 --> 0:43:51.680 trans woman who's playing football, something that if an openly 0:43:51.719 --> 0:43:54.959 trans woman has ever openly played, like American football, there 0:43:55.040 --> 0:43:57.120 is not a lot of documentation of that online. So 0:43:59.000 --> 0:44:02.520 like Grace, she is like walking a path that has 0:44:02.600 --> 0:44:07.320 like never existed before. But I think, like more broadly 0:44:07.520 --> 0:44:11.719 and more like thematically, there is that like Grace is 0:44:11.760 --> 0:44:15.080 also frequently I call her stupid, and I don't think 0:44:15.120 --> 0:44:18.759 that she's stupid, but calm up. But Grace struggles a 0:44:18.800 --> 0:44:21.759 lot to like express herself I would say, and like, 0:44:22.640 --> 0:44:26.399 I wanted her to like challenge what a reader might 0:44:26.480 --> 0:44:31.000 expect from a trans girl in young adult fiction. Specifically, 0:44:31.080 --> 0:44:35.200 we're like I think she's like frequently kind of like grading, 0:44:35.320 --> 0:44:37.920 or at least I find her grading. She is not 0:44:38.880 --> 0:44:41.560 traditionally feminine. I don't think she's unfeminine, but she like 0:44:41.600 --> 0:44:44.000 struggles a lot with like feeling okay enough to like 0:44:44.520 --> 0:44:47.520 express that about herself. Yeah, and like, I feel like 0:44:47.560 --> 0:44:52.360 a lot of stories about trans kids have this view 0:44:52.640 --> 0:44:56.080 of being a like younger transperson of like, well, it 0:44:56.160 --> 0:45:00.400 was always easy for me, and I took to finity 0:45:00.520 --> 0:45:02.800 like a fish in water, and like this was like 0:45:02.920 --> 0:45:04.920 natural to me. I wanted to write a character for 0:45:04.960 --> 0:45:09.680 whom it is not necessarily natural for Grace to be 0:45:10.080 --> 0:45:15.160 this person, and I wanted her past and the way 0:45:15.200 --> 0:45:18.160 she is now to sort of like challenge a like 0:45:18.960 --> 0:45:24.160 cist reader specifically, but also in terms of scriptulousness in 0:45:24.200 --> 0:45:25.480 a more like macro way. 0:45:25.960 --> 0:45:28.520 There's not a lot of ya. 0:45:28.520 --> 0:45:33.680 Contemporary fiction about transgirl characters like at all. There is now, 0:45:33.719 --> 0:45:38.600 thankfully a good amount of trans male representation in the genre, 0:45:39.719 --> 0:45:42.759 but there are a few authors who are out here 0:45:42.760 --> 0:45:46.200 writing transferm contemporary but like not a lot so like 0:45:46.880 --> 0:45:50.319 figuring out like where I wanted to like slot in 0:45:50.360 --> 0:45:54.680 to this like genre that is kind of like struggling 0:45:54.719 --> 0:45:58.839 to be born, you know, not a lot of transfem 0:45:58.880 --> 0:46:03.560 like seventeen year old protagonists who are like going to 0:46:03.719 --> 0:46:08.040 like parties and drinking beer and worrying about whether or 0:46:08.080 --> 0:46:08.680 not they want. 0:46:08.560 --> 0:46:11.040 To go to college, which is all is all. 0:46:10.920 --> 0:46:12.560 Stuff I wanted to like touch here. 0:46:13.239 --> 0:46:15.360 Yeah, And I think there's a bunch of levels of 0:46:15.400 --> 0:46:18.839 this stuff sort of operates on and I think it's 0:46:19.320 --> 0:46:24.800 very like I don't know, like a lot of being trends. 0:46:24.880 --> 0:46:26.480 And I say this at least for me, I don't know, 0:46:26.560 --> 0:46:28.839 like maybe maybe this didn't for other people. Was just 0:46:28.880 --> 0:46:31.440 like having no idea what the fuck you're doing and 0:46:31.520 --> 0:46:35.480 just you know, waking up one day and realizing like shit, wait, 0:46:35.480 --> 0:46:38.120 what the fuck do you mean I'm doing this? And 0:46:38.160 --> 0:46:39.719 it's like, you know, I got think about this, like 0:46:39.760 --> 0:46:41.680 doing this job. It's like wait, what the fuck I'm 0:46:41.680 --> 0:46:48.040 a trans podcaster? Like what like I can't even. 0:46:47.840 --> 0:46:50.040 Do my makeup? Well, like what the fuck are we 0:46:50.160 --> 0:46:50.719 doing here? 0:46:51.040 --> 0:46:51.320 Yep? 0:46:52.560 --> 0:46:54.319 I think that like an never think that I've talked 0:46:54.360 --> 0:46:55.799 about I talked about this a lot in the show 0:46:55.880 --> 0:46:59.560 is but it's also just like how kind of like 0:47:01.239 --> 0:47:05.000 normal the trans girls who just like suddenly something blows 0:47:05.080 --> 0:47:07.480 up and they're like Internet famers or whatever the fuck 0:47:07.560 --> 0:47:12.960 are that. They're just like some kid until like, yeah, 0:47:13.040 --> 0:47:15.320 you know, there's just like an explosion and everyone is 0:47:15.360 --> 0:47:17.440 suddenly interested in every intimate detail of your life and 0:47:17.520 --> 0:47:19.279 is trying to deconstruct it in order to destroy you. 0:47:19.680 --> 0:47:23.360 Yeah, Grace is Again I don't really want to like 0:47:23.400 --> 0:47:27.720 spoil act act three stuff here, but later on the story, 0:47:27.760 --> 0:47:32.000 Grace achieves some amount of like Internet notoriety for what 0:47:32.080 --> 0:47:37.680 she's doing. And yeah, Grace is like an extremely typical kid. 0:47:37.880 --> 0:47:41.839 She has like typical kid problems. But then this like 0:47:42.040 --> 0:47:46.359 microscope gets put on her and she's she is sort 0:47:46.360 --> 0:47:50.120 of like forced to like become this like different thing 0:47:50.320 --> 0:47:53.280 that like if she wants to be that thing someday, 0:47:53.760 --> 0:47:54.479 it's not now. 0:47:54.800 --> 0:47:55.000 Yeah. 0:47:55.280 --> 0:47:57.880 Yeah, I think in a lot of ways, my book 0:47:57.960 --> 0:48:01.080 is about how we ask teenagers to like do too 0:48:01.200 --> 0:48:05.520 much and be too much. But like, especially trans kids, 0:48:05.920 --> 0:48:09.080 when you transition at any age, you are building the 0:48:09.120 --> 0:48:12.320 plane of your personality while you are flying it, baby yep, 0:48:12.560 --> 0:48:16.080 And like that's so much pressure to put on anyone, 0:48:16.120 --> 0:48:20.200 but like especially anyone who is a kid is just 0:48:20.239 --> 0:48:22.400 like there's a lot of pressure. And I wanted to 0:48:23.120 --> 0:48:27.759 I wanted to like juxtapose the parts of Grace's experience 0:48:27.880 --> 0:48:31.000 that like a like sis boy or girl could read 0:48:31.040 --> 0:48:33.000 and be like, yep, I also don't know where I 0:48:33.040 --> 0:48:33.840 want to go to college. 0:48:33.840 --> 0:48:35.600 But also like sort. 0:48:35.400 --> 0:48:39.839 Of like show like well because she is like this, 0:48:40.440 --> 0:48:45.520 she is facing this like unreal level of scrutiny that 0:48:45.640 --> 0:48:49.319 is like not normal, deeply unnatural and like fucked up 0:48:49.320 --> 0:48:50.120 and like unfair. 0:48:50.719 --> 0:48:54.160 Yeah, speaking of unfair, we have to go to ads. 0:48:55.360 --> 0:48:58.319 We come back. That's one of my better pivots. I'm 0:48:58.320 --> 0:49:02.879 proud of that one. When we come back, We're going 0:49:02.880 --> 0:49:07.760 to talk about masculinity. 0:49:16.480 --> 0:49:18.440 We are back. 0:49:18.680 --> 0:49:23.000 So one of the boys is weirdly the second football 0:49:23.040 --> 0:49:25.680 involved book about a trans woman that I've read in 0:49:25.719 --> 0:49:30.120 the last year, and I think it's fascinating because in 0:49:30.560 --> 0:49:35.839 the like pure archetypal sense from structuralless anthropology, it is 0:49:35.880 --> 0:49:39.880 like a pure structural inversion of Alison Greeves is How 0:49:39.880 --> 0:49:42.040 to Fly, because how to Fly is this is also 0:49:42.080 --> 0:49:44.440 a good book, but How to Fly is about a 0:49:44.480 --> 0:49:47.360 girl getting forced fem to escape masculine violence. Why they 0:49:47.360 --> 0:49:49.320 come and a cheerleader and one of the boys is 0:49:49.320 --> 0:49:52.680 about a trans woman going back into into a hypermasculine 0:49:52.719 --> 0:49:55.279 space to become a football player. It's like they're just 0:49:55.360 --> 0:49:58.520 literally perfect structural versions of each other. And so I 0:49:58.560 --> 0:50:03.240 wanted to ask you about how are you thinking about 0:50:04.200 --> 0:50:06.640 doing this thing right, which is which is going back 0:50:06.800 --> 0:50:09.960 into these these hyper masculine spaces that a lot of 0:50:09.960 --> 0:50:13.839 people come out of pre transition, you know, when when 0:50:14.120 --> 0:50:15.759 you were sort of writing this, because this is not 0:50:15.880 --> 0:50:20.280 a thing that people tend to write when they're writing 0:50:20.320 --> 0:50:23.600 about transfems. 0:50:22.320 --> 0:50:29.000 Totally and sort of the like irregularity of Grace's path 0:50:29.280 --> 0:50:31.319 this way is like one of the reasons why I 0:50:31.400 --> 0:50:35.720 was like drawn to like writing a sports story about 0:50:35.760 --> 0:50:39.640 like a trans girl playing football specifically, is because like 0:50:40.160 --> 0:50:43.319 I probably have a like more I don't know if 0:50:43.360 --> 0:50:46.759 complicated is the word, but I have like a very 0:50:46.880 --> 0:50:49.759 like interesting relationship with masculinity. And as much as I'm 0:50:49.800 --> 0:50:52.040 like fascinated by it, like I think it is like 0:50:52.239 --> 0:50:56.200 endlessly interesting to see the ways that like men construct 0:50:56.440 --> 0:51:00.719 the like various kinds of masculinity that they live in 0:51:00.960 --> 0:51:06.279 and the like various outcomes that men can end up 0:51:06.920 --> 0:51:12.520 finding via their weird distinct masculinities. For instance, for me personally, 0:51:13.000 --> 0:51:16.360 I'm still in my like old high school like boys 0:51:17.520 --> 0:51:21.279 group chat like that we like started like a decade ago, 0:51:21.800 --> 0:51:25.080 and like I have never once had a problem fitting 0:51:25.120 --> 0:51:27.360 in there. When they all found out I was trans, 0:51:27.480 --> 0:51:30.800 was like, oh shit, cool, whatever we're gonna keep talking 0:51:30.800 --> 0:51:37.640 about like the NIX, you know. And like again, Grace's 0:51:38.239 --> 0:51:41.200 journey with masculinity is different from mine, but kind of 0:51:41.239 --> 0:51:45.359 like her, I have like some amount of like difficulty 0:51:45.480 --> 0:51:50.520 and like very masculine sports spaces when I was a kid, 0:51:50.520 --> 0:51:53.360 but then like once you adapt and once you like 0:51:54.200 --> 0:51:57.680 learn how to like perform this thing, Like I never 0:51:57.719 --> 0:52:03.360 had a problem existing in these worlds. And like something 0:52:03.400 --> 0:52:06.160 that Grace is really annoyed by is that people are 0:52:06.160 --> 0:52:08.919 always like I just can't believe that, like you would 0:52:08.960 --> 0:52:11.840 be trans, And what is hidden in there is like 0:52:12.200 --> 0:52:14.520 you were kind of a dick. You were like kind 0:52:14.560 --> 0:52:18.280 of a douchebag. Yeah, So, like I very much wanted 0:52:18.280 --> 0:52:23.120 to write a trans protagonist who has a relationship with 0:52:23.239 --> 0:52:27.719 like her past self and with her male friends. That 0:52:27.840 --> 0:52:30.120 was like a little more complicated. Were like she has 0:52:30.280 --> 0:52:35.440 a like very good, solid group of like male friends 0:52:35.440 --> 0:52:39.600 who are not like perfect, but are still like that's 0:52:39.640 --> 0:52:44.560 my friend. So like I think for my friends and 0:52:44.680 --> 0:52:48.440 for a lot of trans women's male friends, they're like, well, 0:52:48.640 --> 0:52:51.480 I was friends with you before, so like you're still 0:52:51.960 --> 0:52:53.319 like you know, you're still you. 0:52:53.800 --> 0:52:54.960 I'm still gonna be cool with you. 0:52:55.040 --> 0:52:56.319 So I guess that means that I have to think 0:52:56.320 --> 0:53:00.520 about like that I have to like, okay, now I 0:53:00.560 --> 0:53:03.799 have to like think about how like trans people are 0:53:03.840 --> 0:53:07.960 like treated by society more broadly. And it's like interesting 0:53:08.400 --> 0:53:13.239 seeing men in my life like suddenly become like cognizant 0:53:13.280 --> 0:53:18.360 of like transitions, and it's all like personal. It's all like, well, 0:53:18.880 --> 0:53:21.919 I know this person, and therefore I'm going to show 0:53:22.160 --> 0:53:25.160 compassion to this person that I like. And then you know, 0:53:25.600 --> 0:53:28.800 politics starting at the personal and sort of like growing 0:53:28.800 --> 0:53:29.399 out from there. 0:53:30.200 --> 0:53:32.759 So I want to ask a bit more, just digging 0:53:32.800 --> 0:53:35.120 into sort of the masculinity aspect specifically, because one of 0:53:35.120 --> 0:53:37.040 the things I think is I don't know that there's 0:53:37.080 --> 0:53:42.759 a part of being a transfem that isn't super well 0:53:42.880 --> 0:53:46.600 understood outside of it, which is sort of a lot 0:53:46.640 --> 0:53:51.200 of trans women have a phase where you really try 0:53:51.200 --> 0:53:53.720 to be a man, right, where you get like really 0:53:53.760 --> 0:53:56.520 into like hypermasculinity in order to try to like yeah, 0:53:56.800 --> 0:53:59.080 try to make yourself do it. Like I had gamer 0:53:59.160 --> 0:54:01.560 me a phase, which was a fiasco, not even gearing 0:54:01.560 --> 0:54:03.000 me if I'm still sort of game and be but 0:54:03.040 --> 0:54:05.600 I had, like you know, I had I had like 0:54:05.600 --> 0:54:10.200 like top point two five percent Heartstone player, like the 0:54:09.719 --> 0:54:17.440 a wreck a disasters substantively a worst person. Yeah, and 0:54:17.880 --> 0:54:20.000 you know so, and like that's the thing that has 0:54:20.040 --> 0:54:23.839 a lot of complicated social ripples. Were like this this 0:54:23.920 --> 0:54:26.520 process of like like doing this, you know, sometimes it's 0:54:26.520 --> 0:54:28.080 like your final them. It's just it's just what you're 0:54:28.080 --> 0:54:29.400 doing to try to get by. It's like trying to 0:54:29.440 --> 0:54:32.799 force yourself to be a man and like do this 0:54:32.920 --> 0:54:35.839 masculinity in a way that's like really shit because you're 0:54:35.840 --> 0:54:39.520 trying to like reconcile it with yourself. Yes, So this 0:54:39.640 --> 0:54:43.200 is like a thing that a lot of like transforms experience. 0:54:43.800 --> 0:54:44.600 I think it's. 0:54:44.520 --> 0:54:48.000 Written interestingly in this book. And I was always wondering, 0:54:48.760 --> 0:54:51.200 I don't know, like like the way you talk about 0:54:51.520 --> 0:54:54.040 being in this in like fitting into these spaces as 0:54:54.160 --> 0:54:56.360 like okay, well, I figured out how to like do 0:54:56.480 --> 0:54:58.720 the performance okay, and then it was sort of fine. 0:54:58.760 --> 0:55:03.160 So I'm wondering, like this is almost universally seen as 0:55:03.239 --> 0:55:05.400 like this is like a formal structural violence that's been 0:55:05.480 --> 0:55:06.960 enacted on you that you sort of have to like 0:55:07.520 --> 0:55:12.440 do this. But there's also a kind of I don't know, 0:55:13.680 --> 0:55:16.839 a kind of complicated dynamic of like these people are 0:55:16.840 --> 0:55:19.719 still like your friends and you like them, and I 0:55:19.760 --> 0:55:21.239 guess I want to know sort of how you've been 0:55:21.280 --> 0:55:24.200 thinking about like that specific angle and like this sort 0:55:24.239 --> 0:55:26.239 of process of fitting in and becoming and also just 0:55:26.600 --> 0:55:28.400 this is sort of unbecoming you have to do to 0:55:28.440 --> 0:55:29.480 like become yourself. 0:55:30.719 --> 0:55:36.080 Yeah, So my book has flashback sequences that are written 0:55:36.120 --> 0:55:39.840 in second person. This is mostly a book that's written 0:55:39.880 --> 0:55:43.200 in first person. But I tried to like really lean 0:55:43.239 --> 0:55:47.719 into this like phenomenon of like closeted trans women like 0:55:48.760 --> 0:55:53.160 butching up at like certain moments in their lives in 0:55:53.239 --> 0:55:58.560 order to like pass and cram down this like feeling 0:55:58.640 --> 0:56:00.920 that is like really fucking scary at first. 0:56:01.520 --> 0:56:01.960 So like. 0:56:03.480 --> 0:56:08.560 I want the second person grace flashbacks to her like 0:56:08.880 --> 0:56:15.319 starting fights and being a like asshole to her girlfriend. 0:56:15.360 --> 0:56:18.040 I want them to feel like jarring, and I want 0:56:18.080 --> 0:56:22.080 them to feel like Grace is being a bastard in 0:56:22.400 --> 0:56:26.960 a lot of these flashbacks, but like I also wanted 0:56:26.960 --> 0:56:29.279 to show like how she gets there in terms of 0:56:29.400 --> 0:56:33.560 like various moments earlier in her life where she was 0:56:33.600 --> 0:56:38.359 sort of like shunted into this more like masculine path 0:56:38.400 --> 0:56:42.440 in order to like pass and like not be bullied 0:56:42.560 --> 0:56:48.200 or like other eyes, and like it definitely is. It's tough, 0:56:48.280 --> 0:56:51.040 and I think that I think that I personally have 0:56:51.200 --> 0:56:55.160 a like complicated relationship with Like, Yeah, like I hated 0:56:55.160 --> 0:56:57.320 football when I played it. And I did it because 0:56:58.440 --> 0:57:00.839 like I like the sport obviously because I'm a fan, 0:57:00.960 --> 0:57:02.960 and because I wrote this book about it, and because 0:57:02.960 --> 0:57:04.879 I write about football some times and I boast about 0:57:04.880 --> 0:57:07.440 it a lot, but like playing it made me miserable, 0:57:07.520 --> 0:57:10.439 but like I also made friends with that team who 0:57:10.480 --> 0:57:14.440 I still talk to. So it's like I definitely wanted 0:57:14.480 --> 0:57:19.000 to feel like violent and imposed, but also like it 0:57:19.040 --> 0:57:23.160 isn't something that can be like erased. It's something that 0:57:23.200 --> 0:57:25.800 you have to deal with. It's something that like as 0:57:25.840 --> 0:57:29.800 you grow up and as you continue to self actualize, 0:57:29.840 --> 0:57:35.200 you have to like decide what parts of that version 0:57:35.200 --> 0:57:38.640 of yourself are worth keeping and what parts aren't. And 0:57:38.640 --> 0:57:40.920 that's like something that I wanted to show, like Grace 0:57:41.240 --> 0:57:45.040 struggle through kind of in real time, is she's like 0:57:45.200 --> 0:57:47.520 very early in her transition, and she doesn't know how 0:57:47.520 --> 0:57:49.880 she wants to present, and she doesn't know how much 0:57:49.920 --> 0:57:53.800 of like her old life and the people in her 0:57:54.200 --> 0:57:59.200 old life that want to associate with her, or does 0:58:00.200 --> 0:58:03.080 existing on this football team dragger back towards something that 0:58:03.120 --> 0:58:05.960 she doesn't want to be anymore. It's all stuff that 0:58:05.960 --> 0:58:10.120 I wanted to play with. And it's not like overtly political, 0:58:10.200 --> 0:58:13.160 but is like subtextually political, you. 0:58:13.080 --> 0:58:16.480 Know, yeah, well it's it's it's political in the sense that, 0:58:16.640 --> 0:58:18.880 like you know that we were talking about sort of 0:58:18.880 --> 0:58:21.840 scriptleussness earlier, right, And I think one of the one 0:58:21.880 --> 0:58:24.360 of the sort of alienating factors about being trends is that, like, 0:58:25.280 --> 0:58:27.680 especially if you're like kind of alone and you're like, 0:58:27.720 --> 0:58:29.560 you know, like you're like the only transferm that you're 0:58:29.560 --> 0:58:30.240 spending time with. 0:58:30.400 --> 0:58:32.280 Right, This is just. 0:58:32.200 --> 0:58:33.880 True for like a lot of things, like a lot 0:58:33.880 --> 0:58:36.520 of how sort of oppression functions and a lot of 0:58:36.520 --> 0:58:38.640 how violence functions. Is by convincing you that this is 0:58:38.680 --> 0:58:40.600 the only You're the only person's ever gone through this, 0:58:41.160 --> 0:58:42.800 m h. And there are always going to be unique 0:58:42.800 --> 0:58:45.240 aspects of it. But like, you know, one of the 0:58:45.240 --> 0:58:47.800 ways that alienation has maintained is by convincing you that 0:58:47.840 --> 0:58:51.760 no one else can understand the thing that's happening to you, 0:58:51.800 --> 0:58:53.560 and that because no one else has ever done it. 0:58:53.560 --> 0:58:55.240 And it turns out like, no, actually, this is something 0:58:55.240 --> 0:58:58.920 that like all of us have gone through. And when 0:58:59.000 --> 0:59:00.520 when you sort of start to realize just the kind 0:59:00.520 --> 0:59:03.440 of solidarity that could be built based on this collective 0:59:03.520 --> 0:59:05.440 well of experience we've all gone through, and how it 0:59:05.440 --> 0:59:08.720 can be you know, changed by actual actions of a 0:59:08.720 --> 0:59:12.080 bunch of people working together, it changes things. So I 0:59:12.080 --> 0:59:13.640 think I think it is in a lot of ways 0:59:13.800 --> 0:59:17.280 political in the sense that like, in order to have politics, 0:59:17.760 --> 0:59:20.840 you have to have sort of like collective assemblages of 0:59:20.880 --> 0:59:23.840 people who fucking understand each other and to understand that 0:59:23.880 --> 0:59:26.000 they're not alone, that they can do things totally. And 0:59:26.040 --> 0:59:27.280 this is part of how you get to that. 0:59:28.200 --> 0:59:32.600 Yeah, we can talk a little bit more about the 0:59:32.720 --> 0:59:36.480 like very start of something that could be seen as 0:59:36.520 --> 0:59:41.840 a political awakening that Grace has in this book, but like, yeah, 0:59:42.400 --> 0:59:44.280 part of the reason that she isn't perfect is because 0:59:44.280 --> 0:59:47.360 she doesn't know any other Like there are no other 0:59:47.560 --> 0:59:50.360 transmitment characters in this book, And that was very deliberate. Yeah, 0:59:50.360 --> 0:59:52.200 Grace is like on our own. She is like figuring 0:59:52.240 --> 0:59:54.760 this out as she goes yep. And I wanted it 0:59:54.800 --> 0:59:59.040 to feel rough and like ad hoc because like that's 0:59:59.040 --> 1:00:00.000 how it is for a lot of people. 1:00:00.080 --> 1:00:01.960 That's how it was, like go through it by walking. 1:00:02.160 --> 1:00:05.000 Yeah, yeah, I guess, I guess I want to kind 1:00:05.000 --> 1:00:07.800 of move into the more directly political realm. One I 1:00:07.840 --> 1:00:11.160 think is interesting about this book is that, like Grace 1:00:11.360 --> 1:00:13.880 and this is something that like I my brain has 1:00:13.920 --> 1:00:17.400 been so melted by having been like the politics kids 1:00:17.400 --> 1:00:20.240 since I was like fifteen, because I was like my 1:00:20.320 --> 1:00:22.560 high school was like interrupted in the middle of it 1:00:22.560 --> 1:00:24.800 by be trying to overseell the Turkish government, and so like, 1:00:25.120 --> 1:00:29.360 my brain is so melted. We'll get air to one 1:00:29.360 --> 1:00:33.080 one day. We already can't go there for our coverage 1:00:33.240 --> 1:00:37.000 of Kurdish gorilla movements. Very good stuff. You'll find many, 1:00:37.000 --> 1:00:38.760 many such things, I think. But like one of the 1:00:38.760 --> 1:00:42.960 interesting persons about this is that Grace is like not political, right, 1:00:43.000 --> 1:00:45.680 and most of the people in this aren't. And there's 1:00:45.760 --> 1:00:50.280 kind of a divide between the politics knowers who are 1:00:50.360 --> 1:00:53.640 like the more uh you know, who are like okay, yeah, 1:00:53.640 --> 1:00:55.360 like we we are like the queer kids. We are 1:00:55.400 --> 1:00:58.360 like the activist kids, and then like the you know, 1:00:58.440 --> 1:01:01.480 like the ballplayers, and then Grace sort of fits more 1:01:01.560 --> 1:01:04.080 into the like not even more. Grace isn't like a 1:01:04.080 --> 1:01:06.840 politics person. Grace is a like, hey, like transphobia is bad, 1:01:06.840 --> 1:01:09.040 we shouldn't do that, but also like just wants to 1:01:09.040 --> 1:01:13.080 fucking go kick a go kick a rock between two posts. 1:01:13.520 --> 1:01:15.280 So yeah, can you talk about like how you sort 1:01:15.320 --> 1:01:17.880 of decided to make her just be like kid who 1:01:17.880 --> 1:01:19.000 doesn't follow politics. 1:01:20.200 --> 1:01:23.680 Yeah, So like that was like not any kind of 1:01:23.760 --> 1:01:26.800 like statement about how like politics is bad. 1:01:26.920 --> 1:01:27.120 You know. 1:01:27.440 --> 1:01:32.200 That was like Grace's seventeen, and most seventeen year olds, 1:01:32.240 --> 1:01:35.760 if they have politics at all, have like completely incoherent politics. 1:01:35.840 --> 1:01:37.760 Yeah, because I was like, holy shit. 1:01:38.680 --> 1:01:43.000 Yeah, So, like Grace has the like barest outlines of 1:01:43.040 --> 1:01:47.040 like ideology, and those were like put on her by 1:01:47.120 --> 1:01:49.680 people in her life. We know that her dad is 1:01:49.720 --> 1:01:53.439 a union man, and from a small age she has 1:01:54.000 --> 1:01:58.240 internalized that unions are good. Does she know why probably not, 1:01:58.760 --> 1:02:02.160 but or all so we know that her friend tab 1:02:02.240 --> 1:02:05.320 who is Bori, has been like educating her on like 1:02:05.840 --> 1:02:09.360 Puerto Rican Independence, which was like which was a like 1:02:10.640 --> 1:02:16.200 that was a very funny lie, right, because because Grace 1:02:16.320 --> 1:02:19.520 is as like dumb as shit white kid from the suburbs, 1:02:19.920 --> 1:02:24.280 but so like inasmuch as she's like piecing together the 1:02:24.280 --> 1:02:27.520 person she is bit by bit, she's also kind of 1:02:27.560 --> 1:02:32.000 like piecing what she thinks about the world together along 1:02:32.040 --> 1:02:35.040 with that in terms of like most of the straight 1:02:35.240 --> 1:02:39.439 white players on the football team like do not have 1:02:39.960 --> 1:02:44.240 like basically don't have politics. There's a scene where one 1:02:44.280 --> 1:02:47.240 of my minor characters is like, yo, I just figured 1:02:47.280 --> 1:02:52.680 out that, like trans phobia is bad, and I loved 1:02:52.840 --> 1:02:58.160 I fucking loved writing that. But like, I imagine that 1:02:58.240 --> 1:03:01.520 up until recently, Grace was exactly like this and just 1:03:01.600 --> 1:03:05.880 like just like yep, I'm a middle lower middle class 1:03:05.920 --> 1:03:11.120 white straight boy air quotes on all of that, she 1:03:11.320 --> 1:03:14.440 never had any kind of like thought about that. 1:03:14.440 --> 1:03:15.480 That does not. 1:03:15.480 --> 1:03:17.080 Reflect what was going on in my life when I 1:03:17.080 --> 1:03:20.280 was a teenager, because I was a very annoying oh 1:03:20.320 --> 1:03:26.200 like me and a friend of mine, Chavon, got in 1:03:26.280 --> 1:03:29.160 trouble for putting a Bernie Sanders twenty sixteen sticker on 1:03:29.200 --> 1:03:33.360 her locker, because that's the kind of shit. 1:03:33.160 --> 1:03:35.880 We were doing in. 1:03:35.000 --> 1:03:40.800 High school in twenty fifteen. So like, I was like 1:03:41.800 --> 1:03:45.960 very much had sort of like vacant liberal middle class 1:03:46.040 --> 1:03:51.440 kid politics, but like Grace, Grace is. I imagine that like 1:03:52.360 --> 1:03:56.440 later in her life, she kind of has more political 1:03:56.480 --> 1:03:58.960 thoughts in her head. But I also kind of imagine 1:03:58.960 --> 1:04:01.680 that her brain works like I don't know if you've 1:04:01.680 --> 1:04:06.680 played Disco Elysium, but I kind of imagine. I kind 1:04:06.680 --> 1:04:09.760 of imagine Grace has a like thought cabinet, and it's 1:04:09.840 --> 1:04:16.640 like she has like she has like two slots in it. Oh, 1:04:16.880 --> 1:04:20.560 she just like cannot hold that many ideas in her 1:04:20.560 --> 1:04:25.480 brain at once. So she's she is in all aspects 1:04:25.520 --> 1:04:28.720 of her life trying her vest and trying to get better. 1:04:28.800 --> 1:04:32.280 And yeah, I want to like I feel like a 1:04:32.320 --> 1:04:36.600 lot of contemporary YA that comes out these days, a 1:04:36.600 --> 1:04:39.520 lot of the kids have like overly coherent politics. I 1:04:39.560 --> 1:04:41.960 was like, nah, nah, I wanted to write a kid 1:04:41.960 --> 1:04:44.560 who has like good intentions but has no idea what 1:04:44.600 --> 1:04:45.000 she's doing. 1:04:45.120 --> 1:04:48.480 Yep, God, my brain's doing the Trump flying. In many cases, 1:04:48.520 --> 1:04:52.160 have no idea what they're doing. Yeah, oh Jesus, crash, 1:04:52.320 --> 1:04:55.440 braids and broken. Okay, speaking of things being broken, the 1:04:55.440 --> 1:04:58.640 products and services to support this podcast unrelated statements. 1:05:08.720 --> 1:05:09.920 We are back, Okay. 1:05:09.960 --> 1:05:14.680 So, having now gotten like many far into this interview 1:05:14.680 --> 1:05:19.400 without directly being like, here's the football politics, let's talk 1:05:19.400 --> 1:05:21.960 about the politics of football. Because one of the things 1:05:21.960 --> 1:05:24.720 that I think is fascinating about, you know, the way 1:05:24.800 --> 1:05:26.400 you're sort of talking about this, and the way that 1:05:26.480 --> 1:05:28.880 Grace like runs into this, and the way that this 1:05:28.960 --> 1:05:30.840 is just like a thing that happens in the US, 1:05:31.120 --> 1:05:34.760 which is that like giant portions of the entire US 1:05:34.800 --> 1:05:38.680 economy and like like structural elements of the US like 1:05:38.920 --> 1:05:42.040 education system from like the ground up, and like all 1:05:42.080 --> 1:05:45.479 of these sort of contracting services, like massive portions of 1:05:45.520 --> 1:05:48.320 like how every single part of the education system from 1:05:48.400 --> 1:05:52.560 like fucking like middle school through college are all bent 1:05:52.880 --> 1:05:58.440 around this game, yep. And I think one of the 1:05:58.440 --> 1:06:00.360 things that happens there is that like the they're kind 1:06:00.360 --> 1:06:04.480 of like default ambient politics. It is very conservative, and 1:06:04.520 --> 1:06:06.840 I think in ways that you know, are very easy 1:06:06.840 --> 1:06:08.760 to understand, and that when people tend to talk about this, 1:06:08.800 --> 1:06:11.320 they immediately go like, well, yeah. So like you know, 1:06:11.480 --> 1:06:13.520 like the left is talking about football, it's like you're 1:06:13.520 --> 1:06:15.640 talking about the militarism, which is like yeah, I mean 1:06:15.680 --> 1:06:18.960 they're fucking flying jets over games like there, we're not 1:06:19.000 --> 1:06:22.200 even in wars anymore. In terms of like US ground 1:06:22.240 --> 1:06:24.880 troops deployed, Like why the fuck are their troops showing 1:06:24.960 --> 1:06:27.880 up on the field. There's like the cult of masculinity stuff. 1:06:27.960 --> 1:06:30.520 There's you know, I mean, like there's been some engagement 1:06:30.560 --> 1:06:33.720 now with the racial politics of it with Kaepernick. People 1:06:33.760 --> 1:06:35.640 realize like holy shit, wait, there's been like stuff happening 1:06:35.640 --> 1:06:38.480 here for ages, and you know when you get sort 1:06:38.480 --> 1:06:42.000 of the masculinity politics. But there's I think a lot 1:06:42.040 --> 1:06:46.240 of stuff here that we don't talk about on the 1:06:46.280 --> 1:06:49.480 left in terms of like the class dynamics of this 1:06:49.640 --> 1:06:53.520 and the way that football I'm just like functions in 1:06:53.560 --> 1:06:55.320 a lot of very very weird ways in terms of 1:06:55.400 --> 1:06:59.480 like sucking together this weird pool of a bunch of 1:06:59.480 --> 1:07:03.480 like non working class kids and like, I don't know, 1:07:03.920 --> 1:07:06.520 fucking see if I knew ball, I could I could 1:07:06.560 --> 1:07:08.200 pull an example off top of my head of like 1:07:08.240 --> 1:07:11.760 some some quarterback prospect you'd spent his family had spent 1:07:11.840 --> 1:07:15.320 like two million dollars on like personal trainers for him. 1:07:15.680 --> 1:07:16.320 Absolutely. 1:07:16.480 --> 1:07:17.200 Yeah. 1:07:17.840 --> 1:07:22.000 I grew up sort of like middle lower middle class 1:07:22.040 --> 1:07:26.720 and like playing football specifically, and I grew up playing 1:07:26.720 --> 1:07:30.000 mostly like soccer and baseball, a little bit of basketball, 1:07:30.040 --> 1:07:31.800 but I sort of like I sort of ended up 1:07:31.840 --> 1:07:34.560 playing football when I was like a teenager because I 1:07:34.640 --> 1:07:37.640 was large, and that's how that works. And like in 1:07:37.720 --> 1:07:40.800 terms of like connecting with people who weren't white and 1:07:40.920 --> 1:07:44.960 of my exact class status or higher like football sow 1:07:44.960 --> 1:07:49.840 it happened. Man, like most of my earliest friendships with 1:07:50.720 --> 1:07:55.120 black kids with Hispanic kids was like all through football, 1:07:55.440 --> 1:08:00.320 and like it is a like very interesting of like 1:08:00.400 --> 1:08:06.040 class and racial melting pot at least at like I 1:08:06.080 --> 1:08:10.080 went to a like pretty big suburban middle and high school, 1:08:10.280 --> 1:08:14.160 but like lots of lots of very different kinds of 1:08:14.160 --> 1:08:16.040 people ended up at my school, and lots of very 1:08:16.080 --> 1:08:18.640 different kinds of people ended up playing football, And like 1:08:19.200 --> 1:08:25.000 you're gonna get a more diverse slice of that student 1:08:25.040 --> 1:08:29.280 population on a football team than you will on the 1:08:29.360 --> 1:08:35.759 fucking yearbook committee or in like school band, class government, whatever. 1:08:36.439 --> 1:08:40.360 All of that came very naturally to me in terms 1:08:40.400 --> 1:08:43.040 of writing this book, where like I've ended up with 1:08:43.120 --> 1:08:46.080 a book that's like quite diverse. But I didn't really 1:08:46.160 --> 1:08:48.400 do that on purpose. I just kind of like, who 1:08:48.560 --> 1:08:50.559 are the kinds of kids who end up playing football? 1:08:50.560 --> 1:08:53.200 And it's like everyone you have like Poorish kids like Grace, 1:08:53.479 --> 1:08:56.559 and then you have like Ritish kids like Ahmed or 1:08:56.920 --> 1:09:00.880 Dre in my book, who like I very much wanted 1:09:00.920 --> 1:09:04.760 to like show that, like maybe one of the reasons 1:09:04.960 --> 1:09:08.920 that Grace is going to end up having a more 1:09:09.160 --> 1:09:13.439 coherent politics is because, like she has friends of different 1:09:13.600 --> 1:09:16.559 backgrounds that she might not if she had not ended 1:09:16.600 --> 1:09:20.400 up playing this this like fucked up, evil, violent game. 1:09:20.479 --> 1:09:23.519 To be clear, Yeah, I mean, I think any football 1:09:23.560 --> 1:09:26.479 fan who is honest with themselves and has his politics 1:09:26.479 --> 1:09:30.880 that are not evil has a very complicated relationship to 1:09:30.920 --> 1:09:34.120 the game for a like variety of reasons. Because it 1:09:34.160 --> 1:09:37.519 will like choose up people's brains and there's that, but 1:09:37.560 --> 1:09:43.599 there's also like implied conservative politics. There's also a big 1:09:43.640 --> 1:09:47.280 factor here is that high school football, even at a 1:09:47.280 --> 1:09:50.600 public school like mine, the religion is all over it, baby. 1:09:50.320 --> 1:09:53.040 Like all over it. Yeah, that's a huge part of it. 1:09:53.479 --> 1:09:58.000 Jason Kirk of The Shutdown Full Cast is working on 1:09:58.320 --> 1:10:04.360 a book about the like history of Christianity and college 1:10:04.360 --> 1:10:07.280 football called Church and State. I'm very fucking excited for 1:10:07.320 --> 1:10:07.679 that book. 1:10:07.720 --> 1:10:09.120 Hell yeah, yeah, that sounds awesome. 1:10:09.240 --> 1:10:14.040 But it's just like really interesting political space because of 1:10:14.080 --> 1:10:17.600 how diverse it is and because of how like homogeneous 1:10:17.640 --> 1:10:19.679 a lot of the like religion and. 1:10:19.640 --> 1:10:21.880 Politics of it are, I guess if that makes sense. 1:10:22.040 --> 1:10:25.240 Yeah, And it's soundso weird because like, you know, so 1:10:25.320 --> 1:10:27.639 like I don't know, I refuse to watch college football, 1:10:27.640 --> 1:10:30.400 Like I draw the line there, like I'm not doing this. 1:10:30.400 --> 1:10:31.040 I'm not doing this. 1:10:31.120 --> 1:10:34.360 They can't make me watch like fucking Colorado's State or 1:10:34.400 --> 1:10:35.120 whatever the fuck. 1:10:35.640 --> 1:10:36.920 But like one of the. 1:10:36.960 --> 1:10:39.320 Things that you get in the NFL too, is it's like, 1:10:39.600 --> 1:10:41.400 on the one hand, like you have all of this 1:10:41.720 --> 1:10:45.360 really really conservative shit right, like every fucking everything is God. 1:10:45.640 --> 1:10:48.800 Like every single time someone holds a thing in front 1:10:48.800 --> 1:10:52.719 of a player there there's like at least three lines 1:10:52.880 --> 1:10:55.040 of like all of this is possible because of God. 1:10:55.200 --> 1:10:58.920 And like someone's like it's like that the only place 1:10:59.000 --> 1:11:02.320 you see people regularly saying Christ is King where they're 1:11:02.320 --> 1:11:04.519 not also like holding an ar to like a non 1:11:04.520 --> 1:11:07.160 white person's head, you know. So so that there's all 1:11:07.200 --> 1:11:11.720 of this like really really conservative religious shit. But then 1:11:11.760 --> 1:11:16.200 also there's like a union. Yes, then everyone's in and 1:11:16.240 --> 1:11:21.200 it's like a large like I mean, it's not that powerful, 1:11:21.280 --> 1:11:23.920 and there's there's weirdness there too, because you get to 1:11:23.960 --> 1:11:27.840 see all of the really interesting dynamics of unions that 1:11:27.880 --> 1:11:30.200 you don't really get outside of kind of like I mean, 1:11:30.240 --> 1:11:33.280 like I guess like SAG kind of has this, but 1:11:33.720 --> 1:11:37.639 it's this union in this place where one the owners 1:11:37.680 --> 1:11:40.839 have like an unbelievable amount of control. It's a hideous 1:11:40.840 --> 1:11:43.599 amount of power, and they can turn through people really quickly. 1:11:44.160 --> 1:11:45.800 They have you know, these are some of the richest 1:11:45.800 --> 1:11:48.760 people in the world. And then also secondly there's there's 1:11:48.800 --> 1:11:53.200 this like marketization force that's happening where you know, you 1:11:53.280 --> 1:11:56.639 get to see in miniature the way that capitalism has 1:11:56.760 --> 1:12:01.720 like moved to to sort of deal with unions, deal 1:12:01.760 --> 1:12:03.400 with sort of the class movements of the twentieth century, 1:12:03.400 --> 1:12:06.360 which is that like they're also trying to turn all 1:12:06.360 --> 1:12:08.640 of these kids like into entrepreneurs. 1:12:09.280 --> 1:12:09.400 HM. 1:12:10.400 --> 1:12:13.600 I think in the NFL, I think it's more coherent 1:12:13.720 --> 1:12:16.719 because there is a players association, not a union. 1:12:16.800 --> 1:12:20.439 A players association, although also also shout out shout outs 1:12:20.439 --> 1:12:23.080 to the PA for backing are for backing a unionization 1:12:23.160 --> 1:12:23.720 attempt here. 1:12:23.880 --> 1:12:24.479 Thanks for that. 1:12:24.960 --> 1:12:26.880 I don't know if it mattered, but that's a lot 1:12:26.920 --> 1:12:27.080 to me. 1:12:28.280 --> 1:12:34.080 Yeah. Also, like sports players, unions are fascinating because these 1:12:34.120 --> 1:12:36.680 are people who are part of a union who are 1:12:37.120 --> 1:12:39.960 like at least some of them millionaires. So it's yep, 1:12:40.360 --> 1:12:44.519 a very interesting sort of like class dynamic happening there. 1:12:44.760 --> 1:12:47.439 But like call it like the college game right now 1:12:47.520 --> 1:12:52.599 is just charn Oldhouse. I mean, like it is better 1:12:52.840 --> 1:12:56.519 now that players are being paid like unambiguous good that 1:12:56.600 --> 1:12:59.120 players can profit off of their name, image and likeness. 1:12:59.160 --> 1:13:03.760 But again it makes like I remember, like I'm not 1:13:04.120 --> 1:13:08.200 on Twitter much anymore, but like in the like early 1:13:08.240 --> 1:13:11.599 Elon days, you started getting Twitter ads and these were 1:13:12.040 --> 1:13:14.400 sixteen seventeen year old high school football players. 1:13:14.479 --> 1:13:14.759 Yeah. 1:13:14.920 --> 1:13:19.160 The post is like huddle highlights and like a like 1:13:19.320 --> 1:13:24.439 quick recruiting profile of like hey, class of twenty twenty 1:13:24.479 --> 1:13:29.160 seven defensive back wide receiver out of Palo Alto, and 1:13:29.280 --> 1:13:32.880 just like blasting that onto like Twitter timelines everywhere, just 1:13:33.040 --> 1:13:36.680 like please God, somebody see my Like, somebody see these 1:13:36.720 --> 1:13:42.760 fucking huddle highlights. The feudalism stage of high school and 1:13:43.880 --> 1:13:46.720 college ball has like ended, and now we are in 1:13:46.760 --> 1:13:52.479 the no regulations baby, just like completely unfettered capitalism stage. 1:13:52.880 --> 1:13:55.880 Can we explain like just how like very briefly, people 1:13:55.880 --> 1:13:58.040 who do not know any football like what name, image 1:13:58.120 --> 1:14:00.320 likeness is and how this is different from like a 1:14:00.360 --> 1:14:02.639 system that would be normal, which is you pay the players. 1:14:03.280 --> 1:14:09.120 Yeah, so for like seventy years, the precedent with college 1:14:09.120 --> 1:14:12.320 football in the United States of America is that all 1:14:12.320 --> 1:14:14.920 these players are amateurs and they cannot be compensated in 1:14:14.960 --> 1:14:18.439 any way. They cannot profit off of their name, image likeness, 1:14:18.479 --> 1:14:20.599 so that means that they can't like sell autographs. The 1:14:20.760 --> 1:14:23.000 school isn't going to sell jerseys that have their name 1:14:23.280 --> 1:14:27.160 on them. You are meant to make exactly zero dollars 1:14:27.320 --> 1:14:31.160 from your time as a amateur college athlete. And this 1:14:31.400 --> 1:14:35.000 was the ironclad system for like seventy years, and then 1:14:35.520 --> 1:14:40.160 it kind of got like destroyed overnight. Yeah, when the 1:14:40.400 --> 1:14:44.360 NCAA finally legalizes players profiting off of their name, image, 1:14:44.360 --> 1:14:47.800 and likeness, so that means that they could sign like 1:14:48.080 --> 1:14:52.160 endorsement deals. And when this was first made a thing 1:14:52.400 --> 1:14:56.720 in twenty twenty one, it mostly manifested in like the 1:14:56.800 --> 1:15:02.200 Coldest Crawford for the Nebraska football team is filming a 1:15:02.200 --> 1:15:05.000 ad for a local air conditioning company because his name 1:15:05.080 --> 1:15:08.320 is the Coldest. And it was sort of like very 1:15:08.439 --> 1:15:12.920 like quaint and cute at first, but then nil collectives 1:15:12.920 --> 1:15:14.800 got going, which are these I don't even know how 1:15:14.840 --> 1:15:19.920 to how to like god described collective is these are 1:15:20.000 --> 1:15:26.040 like investment groups that operate independently of universities that pool 1:15:26.840 --> 1:15:33.840 resources and then pay players for like extremely scant public appearances, 1:15:33.840 --> 1:15:35.760 so that they can say that they're just profiting off 1:15:35.800 --> 1:15:39.360 of name, image and likeness, but in reality they exist 1:15:39.400 --> 1:15:42.800 as a way to pay college football players without paying 1:15:42.800 --> 1:15:46.160 them via schools. Now, there is the house settlement happening 1:15:46.240 --> 1:15:49.599 right now, which colleges will soon be able to probably 1:15:49.960 --> 1:15:54.160 maybe God who knows, will soon be able to directly 1:15:54.280 --> 1:15:58.479 pay college athletes a certain amount of money. Lord knows 1:15:58.479 --> 1:16:01.040 where that's going. Like this is all changing at like 1:16:01.200 --> 1:16:05.040 lightnings at like yeah, yeah, so like we have just 1:16:05.120 --> 1:16:08.240 straight up gone from like nobody gets paid for anything 1:16:08.280 --> 1:16:11.840 to like we are in fucking like gilded age robber 1:16:11.880 --> 1:16:15.160 bear and shit where like yeah, because none of this 1:16:15.200 --> 1:16:19.559 shit is regulated schools or an aisle. Collectives will go 1:16:19.720 --> 1:16:24.480 back on agreements and everything's negotiated every year. They're like 1:16:24.479 --> 1:16:29.240 like it's it's a fucking mess. Yeah in the college 1:16:29.240 --> 1:16:31.519 game right now. So I mean all of that makes 1:16:31.640 --> 1:16:35.479 the like NFL having a kind of shitty union look 1:16:35.520 --> 1:16:36.120 a lot better. 1:16:36.280 --> 1:16:38.880 Yeah, well, IM just thinking about the kind of like 1:16:39.880 --> 1:16:41.720 this is my way of kind of bringing it back 1:16:41.760 --> 1:16:44.639 to transgender but like one of the things that I've 1:16:44.680 --> 1:16:48.599 been thinking about a lot in terms of I mean 1:16:48.680 --> 1:16:50.479 just like what I do, right, and but also just 1:16:50.479 --> 1:16:52.400 like the way that capitalism has been moving in the 1:16:52.479 --> 1:16:58.720 last like few decades is it's increasingly about you know 1:16:58.720 --> 1:17:01.160 because like okay, so, like capitalism's fundamental base has always 1:17:01.160 --> 1:17:04.720 been like you sell your labor, m right, but now 1:17:04.760 --> 1:17:06.559 it's it's it's been increasing your shows for me into 1:17:06.640 --> 1:17:09.799 like you're selling like the image of yourself. You're selling 1:17:09.800 --> 1:17:12.960 your identity, You're selling like yeah, you know, you're selling 1:17:13.000 --> 1:17:14.800 your personality. You're selling as much of like and this 1:17:14.840 --> 1:17:16.200 is this is what name image likeness is. 1:17:16.280 --> 1:17:16.400 Right. 1:17:16.439 --> 1:17:19.240 It's like, we're not gonna pay you for like your labor, 1:17:19.439 --> 1:17:22.800 which is like you playing football. We're gonna pay you 1:17:22.840 --> 1:17:25.680 for like this nebulous image of yourself. So you get 1:17:25.680 --> 1:17:27.800 all these people who like are are you know, you're 1:17:27.840 --> 1:17:31.759 forced to turn all of yourself into an object for consumption, 1:17:31.920 --> 1:17:34.160 and like I think that's the thing with like fucking 1:17:34.160 --> 1:17:35.760 I don't know, That's what I'm doing on this show 1:17:36.120 --> 1:17:38.040 right to a large extent, like I am like the 1:17:38.120 --> 1:17:40.639 Asian transgender and like, yeah, obviously, like all of this 1:17:40.680 --> 1:17:42.519 is like research, but it's also you know, this is 1:17:42.520 --> 1:17:45.120 what like brand and identity is, and this has had 1:17:45.160 --> 1:17:48.840 these like seismic impacts on the entire global economy. Like 1:17:48.880 --> 1:17:50.760 I've talked about this an episode on when I talked 1:17:50.760 --> 1:17:53.040 about Temu, but like Tamu is literally the product of 1:17:53.080 --> 1:17:56.840 this happening with Chinese farmers. We're like Chinese farmers, We're 1:17:56.880 --> 1:17:58.759 doing this like farm social media thing and so almost 1:17:58.760 --> 1:18:01.240 like holy shit, what if we liked become these things 1:18:01.240 --> 1:18:02.519 where they were selling food but they were also just 1:18:02.560 --> 1:18:05.479 selling that like the identity brand of like themselves as farmers, 1:18:06.160 --> 1:18:08.120 And Timu was like, well a PDD, which is the 1:18:08.200 --> 1:18:09.800 Chinese company, was like what if we just brought all 1:18:09.840 --> 1:18:11.719 of these things together in one spot so you could 1:18:11.720 --> 1:18:14.439 just do directed like consumer sales through it. And now 1:18:14.479 --> 1:18:18.520 that's like the entire fucking economy is just this morass 1:18:18.760 --> 1:18:22.360 of like selling every single part of yourself and I 1:18:22.400 --> 1:18:25.479 don't know, like I'm wondering how much of yourself did 1:18:25.520 --> 1:18:27.200 you have to do you have to like leave in 1:18:27.280 --> 1:18:28.800 a book like this, and how much of it can 1:18:28.880 --> 1:18:32.360 you like kind of like keep away from the market. 1:18:33.680 --> 1:18:43.080 Oh boy, So like you're good. Yeah, Oh gosh, everything 1:18:43.200 --> 1:18:47.280 is uh, everything is personal brands. 1:18:47.520 --> 1:18:47.720 Now. 1:18:47.800 --> 1:18:51.880 You know, there's a lot of pressure as an author 1:18:52.400 --> 1:18:56.000 to use all your social media is in a very 1:18:56.000 --> 1:19:00.760 particular way. You're supposed to. You're you're supposed to make 1:19:00.800 --> 1:19:04.640 your cute little canva graphics and like talking about your 1:19:04.720 --> 1:19:11.439 characters and engage with like prompt posts on Instagram and 1:19:12.360 --> 1:19:18.479 you know whatever social media du jore And like, my 1:19:18.840 --> 1:19:22.639 personal experience is a little irregular because I do have 1:19:23.000 --> 1:19:29.559 some amount of like sports, Twitter, niche micro celebrity. I'm posting, 1:19:30.320 --> 1:19:35.160 so like I'm not out here making promotional. 1:19:34.600 --> 1:19:36.400 Tiktoks for one of the boys. 1:19:36.840 --> 1:19:39.760 That was like something that was very important to me. 1:19:40.120 --> 1:19:42.760 Was like, oh I'm not going to be doing that, 1:19:43.000 --> 1:19:43.719 Thank god. 1:19:44.600 --> 1:19:45.080 That shit. 1:19:46.560 --> 1:19:47.800 Yeah. 1:19:48.120 --> 1:19:51.160 The way that authors have to promote themselves and turn 1:19:51.200 --> 1:19:53.240 themselves into brands is like a whole other can of 1:19:53.280 --> 1:19:56.760 worms that like sucks so like, Thankfully, I think I've 1:19:56.840 --> 1:20:04.040 managed to avoid the most alienation uh like forms of that. 1:20:04.439 --> 1:20:07.720 But I did have a few not too long ago, 1:20:08.080 --> 1:20:11.720 very confidently state that this book was loosely based on 1:20:11.760 --> 1:20:16.800 my life story, which was news to me. I was like, word, 1:20:17.479 --> 1:20:22.840 I didn't know that. So, like, I think, especially if 1:20:22.880 --> 1:20:27.120 you write fiction as a person of any marginalized identity 1:20:27.160 --> 1:20:31.519 if you're if you're black, if you're gay, if you're trans, whatever, 1:20:31.920 --> 1:20:35.360 people are going to assume that you're writing like auto fiction. 1:20:35.560 --> 1:20:38.799 Because I think a lot of people react to women's 1:20:38.800 --> 1:20:40.599 fiction this way, because I think a lot of people 1:20:41.160 --> 1:20:45.360 subconsciously have a hard time believing that like, women have 1:20:45.439 --> 1:20:50.559 interior lives and can like imagine things, you know, Like, 1:20:51.080 --> 1:20:53.439 I think a lot of people assume that authors are 1:20:53.479 --> 1:20:56.800 always writing about themselves and writing about the people in 1:20:56.840 --> 1:21:02.000 their lives, and uh, I mean, I'm writing about experiences 1:21:02.320 --> 1:21:05.920 that I have had similar ones too, but like, nah, dog, 1:21:06.320 --> 1:21:07.439 that is not how this works. 1:21:07.520 --> 1:21:12.920 Yeah, there's a really great essay about this by a 1:21:12.960 --> 1:21:16.479 friend of min named Rosemary Hoe, who's absolutely brilliant writer, 1:21:16.800 --> 1:21:20.360 who wrote about the she she's writing about Zady Smith, 1:21:21.400 --> 1:21:22.960 and one of the things that she talks about is 1:21:23.000 --> 1:21:25.439 like the way that people just assume that Zadi that 1:21:25.560 --> 1:21:27.800 like Zadie Smith's politics are just like didactically coming out 1:21:27.800 --> 1:21:29.040 of the mouth of a character, and like, well, no, 1:21:29.479 --> 1:21:33.520 that's not how this shit works, Like yeah. 1:21:32.840 --> 1:21:36.880 It is. Uh, it's frustrating, and I think like a 1:21:36.920 --> 1:21:40.720 lot of authors have their own experiences with this, so 1:21:40.880 --> 1:21:43.880 uh yeah, yeah, I mean I like, you have to 1:21:44.240 --> 1:21:48.080 turn yourself into some kind of brand. That's why I'm 1:21:48.080 --> 1:21:52.800 going on podcasts, you know, So that's all, uh you know, 1:21:53.040 --> 1:21:56.400 that's fun, but uh, I'm trying not to like, you know, 1:21:56.760 --> 1:22:01.360 completely give myself over to the fucking torment nexus. 1:22:01.880 --> 1:22:05.200 Yeah, ye, you know, And there's like, I don't know, 1:22:05.280 --> 1:22:06.479 this is also just like this is a way you 1:22:06.520 --> 1:22:08.960 can just completely lose your mind. I don't know if 1:22:08.960 --> 1:22:11.519 I've ever actually talked about this on this show. Weirdly, 1:22:11.560 --> 1:22:13.360 one of the people whose career trajectory is the most 1:22:13.360 --> 1:22:16.040 similar to Minus is Asian American writer named Lesley Yang, 1:22:16.760 --> 1:22:18.760 who was like this guy who got brought in to 1:22:18.840 --> 1:22:22.160 write about like I think it was Columbine. It's like 1:22:22.160 --> 1:22:24.360 some mass shooting that was like a Korean kid did 1:22:24.760 --> 1:22:27.160 his friends were like, hey, you're Asian, right about this? 1:22:27.439 --> 1:22:27.960 Oh god? 1:22:28.960 --> 1:22:30.640 And he you know, for a bit he was like 1:22:30.720 --> 1:22:32.920 he was like duh, Like he was like he was 1:22:32.920 --> 1:22:35.040 like the guy who was like the big like Asian American, 1:22:35.240 --> 1:22:37.439 like this is like the literary thinker. He was like 1:22:37.479 --> 1:22:40.519 interviewing Aaron Schwortz. He was doing like profiles of a 1:22:40.520 --> 1:22:42.320 bunch of like interesting people, and then he just became 1:22:42.360 --> 1:22:48.040 this like incredibly boring, bog standard reactionary and he became 1:22:48.080 --> 1:22:50.559 one of these A very common kind of person who 1:22:50.560 --> 1:22:53.720 you experience on the right is like someone who's experienced 1:22:53.920 --> 1:22:58.240 who's like understanding of race comes from like watching sports 1:22:58.840 --> 1:23:01.760 where they're like there are black players in basketball and 1:23:01.800 --> 1:23:03.960 there's a bunch of them, and because of that, this 1:23:04.080 --> 1:23:06.920 means that like actually black people are like overrepresented and 1:23:07.040 --> 1:23:09.040 like as a class, they're like privilege or whatever the 1:23:09.040 --> 1:23:11.080 fuck because there's just like a bunch of black basketball 1:23:11.080 --> 1:23:13.760 players and I don't know, I think it's like there's 1:23:13.760 --> 1:23:15.599 like a really interesting intersection here of like the way 1:23:15.640 --> 1:23:21.680 that people understand politics as just like politics are just 1:23:21.680 --> 1:23:24.040 like the thing that I see on my screen when 1:23:24.080 --> 1:23:27.519 I'm watching football, and how we have to sort of 1:23:27.640 --> 1:23:30.760 like just deal with that shit and deal with the 1:23:30.760 --> 1:23:33.479 sort of micro identity formation that is real but also 1:23:33.720 --> 1:23:36.519 isn't like a defiction of what the world is. 1:23:37.840 --> 1:23:49.639 M yeah. 1:23:50.120 --> 1:23:51.760 So one of the interesting things in this book is 1:23:51.760 --> 1:23:55.400 that like the right wing media, like right wing football 1:23:55.439 --> 1:23:59.840 media kinda isn't in it that much really, which I 1:23:59.840 --> 1:24:02.000 think is fascinating And I wonder part of how much 1:24:02.040 --> 1:24:04.519 of this is just like this was kind of a 1:24:04.600 --> 1:24:08.559 book that was originally being written before like Aaron Rodgers 1:24:08.600 --> 1:24:10.439 was going up Pat McAfee show in front of like 1:24:10.479 --> 1:24:12.639 half a million people every single day and like screaming 1:24:12.680 --> 1:24:13.439 about trans people. 1:24:14.200 --> 1:24:19.400 M So, this book has excerpts of like articles and 1:24:19.439 --> 1:24:22.840 outside media and like social media, et cetera. Originally it 1:24:22.920 --> 1:24:25.080 had like a lot more. I had to cut a 1:24:25.080 --> 1:24:28.680 lot in order to make this book like legible as 1:24:28.720 --> 1:24:32.679 a book. This book is already like pushing the edges 1:24:32.840 --> 1:24:36.160 of what you could really communicate in ya in terms 1:24:36.200 --> 1:24:37.720 of like I have a lot of characters, I have 1:24:37.760 --> 1:24:40.080 a lot of shit going on, So like part of 1:24:40.120 --> 1:24:42.600 it is just that, like I had to like you know, 1:24:42.760 --> 1:24:45.760 trim et cetera. But like, yeah, originally it had a 1:24:45.760 --> 1:24:49.760 lot more of that stuff, and there were like interstitial 1:24:50.400 --> 1:24:55.479 snippets from a fictional sort of like football podcaster guy 1:24:55.960 --> 1:24:59.439 who is like Pat McAfee and all of the like 1:24:59.760 --> 1:25:05.120 bar stool former athlete podcasters, Yeah, in a blender, and 1:25:05.439 --> 1:25:09.840 he like he was this like really pathetic former like 1:25:10.080 --> 1:25:15.519 special team or linebacker who just like keeps reliving the 1:25:15.520 --> 1:25:16.639 fucking glory days. 1:25:17.160 --> 1:25:17.439 Yeah. 1:25:17.520 --> 1:25:21.479 Eventually I just had to like refocus and like, yeah, yeah, 1:25:22.080 --> 1:25:26.760 bring that conflict closer to home with like school administration's 1:25:26.880 --> 1:25:31.280 kind of shitty, and like there are plenty of dudes 1:25:31.280 --> 1:25:35.120 on the football team who also suck. So I kind 1:25:35.120 --> 1:25:38.400 of like left it in via some like shitty tweets 1:25:38.560 --> 1:25:42.040 that you see, or you get a lot of it, 1:25:42.160 --> 1:25:46.120 like indirectly you can imagine what is happening on the 1:25:46.160 --> 1:25:47.479 fucking Pat McAfee show. 1:25:47.560 --> 1:25:48.519 Oh my fucking god. 1:25:48.680 --> 1:25:52.720 Yeah, But like also part of it is what you 1:25:52.760 --> 1:25:55.040 said that the weird timeline of publishing means that I 1:25:55.040 --> 1:25:58.040 started writing this book in February twenty twenty one, wrote 1:25:58.080 --> 1:26:01.280 the majority in twenty twenty two, and edit it in 1:26:01.360 --> 1:26:04.680 twenty three and twenty four, and like kind of this 1:26:04.840 --> 1:26:10.639 like very organized anti trans reaction was not as prevalent 1:26:10.720 --> 1:26:13.479 in twenty twenty one at all like I kind of 1:26:13.640 --> 1:26:16.120 had to like track it as it started to like 1:26:16.680 --> 1:26:19.160 really like form up a drill time. This is not 1:26:19.280 --> 1:26:20.800 the world that I thought I was gonna write my 1:26:20.800 --> 1:26:24.519 stupid little football book. Yeah, and and like have it 1:26:25.320 --> 1:26:29.240 emerge into a lot of people are say that this 1:26:29.280 --> 1:26:31.680 book is very timely, and I'm like, dog, this is 1:26:31.680 --> 1:26:33.679 a Biden administration for him through. 1:26:34.600 --> 1:26:37.479 So one final ball question on behalf of my beloved 1:26:37.520 --> 1:26:41.719 and a curse Seattle Seahawks. Okay, so think about Sam Darnold, 1:26:41.760 --> 1:26:44.599 who's now our quarterback after they traded my beloved Gito 1:26:44.640 --> 1:26:46.360 Smith for a fucking third round pick. 1:26:46.479 --> 1:26:46.759 Brother. 1:26:47.320 --> 1:26:50.160 Okay, so, like, is the thing that's going to happen 1:26:50.200 --> 1:26:53.680 this season not just by week five? Abe Lucas goes 1:26:53.680 --> 1:26:55.800 down for the twelve million time whatever child they dragged 1:26:55.800 --> 1:26:57.519 out of a kindergarten to try to block the deal, 1:26:57.520 --> 1:26:59.599 one hundred gets liquifight in ten milli seconds to Sam 1:26:59.640 --> 1:27:02.200 Darnold just like start seeing the ghosts of men who 1:27:02.200 --> 1:27:04.400 haven't been born yet, Like, isn't this exactly? Is this 1:27:04.439 --> 1:27:06.519 just what's gonna happen? Why why did they build this 1:27:06.560 --> 1:27:07.160 team like this? 1:27:09.000 --> 1:27:13.519 Can I attempt to give you a small amount of 1:27:13.840 --> 1:27:15.320 Seattle Seahawks optimism. 1:27:15.720 --> 1:27:16.960 I thought they were gonna would have lived in games 1:27:17.040 --> 1:27:17.519 last season. 1:27:18.080 --> 1:27:21.000 They should have. So we lost to the Flame Giants. 1:27:22.840 --> 1:27:28.280 So I I really like some of what the Seahawks did. 1:27:28.920 --> 1:27:31.640 They drafted a lot of players that I really like. 1:27:31.760 --> 1:27:36.639 It's true they they finally took a interior offensive line 1:27:36.640 --> 1:27:42.800 player in the first round. Congratulations, Uh yay. Gray's Abel 1:27:43.080 --> 1:27:45.360 is a good player. He's also a maga aed shit, 1:27:45.439 --> 1:27:48.599 which is what you want on your offensive line. No, 1:27:48.800 --> 1:27:50.920 that's what you want on your offense. It's true, it's true. 1:27:51.000 --> 1:27:55.000 But also like, god fucking damn it. So you got 1:27:55.439 --> 1:28:00.720 Gray's Abel. You got Jalen Milroe, who Jalen isn't good 1:28:00.720 --> 1:28:04.599 at football right now, but a sports media friend named 1:28:04.680 --> 1:28:08.400 Derek Klassen put it that he's He's the kind of 1:28:08.479 --> 1:28:10.760 player you want to bet on and then be wrong about, 1:28:11.000 --> 1:28:15.799 just just because he's fun, because he's a like legit, 1:28:15.920 --> 1:28:20.120 actual like special athlete special with the ball in his hand. 1:28:20.600 --> 1:28:21.160 He's cool. 1:28:21.560 --> 1:28:24.240 I really like Jaylen mil Roe. But you also drafted 1:28:24.920 --> 1:28:28.920 later on. You took Tory Horden and Ricky White, who 1:28:29.000 --> 1:28:31.799 are two of my favorite sort of like small school 1:28:32.640 --> 1:28:36.360 wide receivers in the draft. Hell, you took Damien Martinez, 1:28:36.479 --> 1:28:38.280 who is a running back who I think could end 1:28:38.360 --> 1:28:40.479 up being a lot better than someone who's drafted in 1:28:40.520 --> 1:28:43.000 the seventh round would indicate. And also you took a 1:28:43.040 --> 1:28:45.280 full back. You took Robbie Oates. That's great. His name 1:28:45.320 --> 1:28:46.960 is a Robbie Oates. 1:28:46.400 --> 1:28:50.720 A great name, great name, old name, old name team. 1:28:51.040 --> 1:28:54.680 He is a He's like the squarest football player I've 1:28:54.720 --> 1:29:02.040 ever seen. Love love Robbie Oates. However, the Sam Donald 1:29:02.200 --> 1:29:05.080 situation is tough. 1:29:05.479 --> 1:29:06.040 It's tough. 1:29:06.320 --> 1:29:11.639 I uh, I have a hard time seeing it happen. 1:29:13.160 --> 1:29:15.439 He would literally if you had put it behind last 1:29:15.520 --> 1:29:18.000 year Seahawks offensive line, he literally would have died by 1:29:18.000 --> 1:29:20.040 about week eight, like you just like straight up would 1:29:20.080 --> 1:29:20.759 have died on the field. 1:29:21.360 --> 1:29:22.000 Oh god. 1:29:22.600 --> 1:29:25.679 Yeah. And like it's a bit better this year because 1:29:25.680 --> 1:29:28.120 you have friends able, but you still have Abe Lucas. 1:29:28.160 --> 1:29:30.880 You know, you still have a We'll have a Lucas 1:29:30.920 --> 1:29:33.439 for three weeks and then we won't have Abe Lucas 1:29:33.479 --> 1:29:34.000 and then. 1:29:36.040 --> 1:29:39.960 And also like Sam Donald was in like the perfect 1:29:40.000 --> 1:29:42.599 spot for him, and now he's going to be throwing 1:29:42.640 --> 1:29:44.920 the ball too. I mean, you know you got Cooper Cup. 1:29:44.960 --> 1:29:48.080 You got, you know, for four weeks, got JSN, but 1:29:48.200 --> 1:29:52.200 you also have Marcus valdezk is he gonna is he 1:29:52.240 --> 1:29:53.640 gonna get load bearing snaps? 1:29:53.680 --> 1:29:53.760 Like? 1:29:54.040 --> 1:29:56.240 Is that really? Is that really what you want? 1:29:56.439 --> 1:29:59.600 My cope last year was that was that JSN, that 1:29:59.720 --> 1:30:02.400 Cas and Lockett was the most underrated receiver trio in 1:30:02.439 --> 1:30:02.840 the league. 1:30:03.160 --> 1:30:03.479 Yep. 1:30:04.160 --> 1:30:07.439 And this year it's like, all right, we get six 1:30:07.479 --> 1:30:11.080 games a Cooper Cup and then we get fifth rounders. 1:30:12.439 --> 1:30:13.360 Yeah. 1:30:13.400 --> 1:30:15.559 God, it's it's tough out here. 1:30:16.280 --> 1:30:16.800 Yeah. 1:30:17.000 --> 1:30:19.680 I don't expect Sam Darnold to work here, just like 1:30:19.920 --> 1:30:23.519 straight up, Like I have been a Sam Donald truther 1:30:23.640 --> 1:30:28.120 for years, but it is the classic thing of like 1:30:28.640 --> 1:30:31.600 I think Sam Donald's better than most people think, and 1:30:31.640 --> 1:30:34.120 then a lot of people are like one hundred and 1:30:34.120 --> 1:30:37.439 thirty million dollars Sam Donald, and it's like what, hold on, 1:30:37.479 --> 1:30:40.320 hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. I didn't 1:30:40.360 --> 1:30:42.360 think he was that good. I didn't think he was 1:30:42.680 --> 1:30:44.200 traded Gino Smith good. 1:30:44.520 --> 1:30:49.360 No, oh god, So that's unfortunate. Yeah, so this this that, 1:30:49.400 --> 1:30:55.120 this has been the football section of this of this podcast. Yeah, Sotoria, 1:30:55.160 --> 1:30:56.800 do you have anything else that you want to say 1:30:56.840 --> 1:30:58.559 before we head out? And where should people buy your 1:30:58.560 --> 1:30:59.080 book from? 1:30:59.479 --> 1:31:01.559 Not Amazon on that's like really all I have to 1:31:01.600 --> 1:31:02.160 say about that. 1:31:03.120 --> 1:31:04.120 Yeah, one of. 1:31:04.040 --> 1:31:06.920 The boys, my name is Victoria Zeller, and you just 1:31:07.080 --> 1:31:10.959 buy that from bookshop, buy it from your local indie. 1:31:11.760 --> 1:31:14.000 You can buy it from Barnes and Noble because we 1:31:14.040 --> 1:31:16.280 don't hate them as much as we hate Amazon. But 1:31:16.600 --> 1:31:18.840 like I would say, buy it from your local indie 1:31:18.840 --> 1:31:22.719 bookstore is like ideal for me. I make the same 1:31:22.760 --> 1:31:25.360 amount of money wherever you buy it, so it doesn't matter. 1:31:25.600 --> 1:31:27.599 But if you want to sign copy, you can also 1:31:27.680 --> 1:31:31.240 order it from my home bookstore, So there's that. 1:31:31.360 --> 1:31:31.519 Hell. 1:31:31.600 --> 1:31:35.799 Yeah, but yeah, my website is a Victoria dot monster 1:31:36.120 --> 1:31:37.400 and all my links are there. 1:31:37.600 --> 1:31:37.800 Yeah. 1:31:37.840 --> 1:31:40.240 Okay, I realized I had an actual final question that 1:31:40.320 --> 1:31:42.000 I wanted to ask it I forgot to do before 1:31:42.000 --> 1:31:44.680 this the fucking we started the intro, so I apologize. 1:31:45.479 --> 1:31:48.680 So the odds here are much much higher than they 1:31:48.680 --> 1:31:51.680 are in most places that there's going to be some 1:31:51.760 --> 1:31:54.639 queer kids who fucking play ball to some extent listening 1:31:54.680 --> 1:31:57.280 to it, And I wanted to I'm throwing something from 1:31:57.280 --> 1:32:00.519 your book at you, which is I know, to the 1:32:00.600 --> 1:32:02.120 what did you say it to the kiddos who are 1:32:02.320 --> 1:32:02.960 going through it. 1:32:03.520 --> 1:32:09.640 This is so mean. Okay, Okay, I'm going to be 1:32:10.520 --> 1:32:13.439 real with you right now. Guys, do what's best for you. Yeah, 1:32:13.640 --> 1:32:16.280 fight if you have it in you to fight, But like, 1:32:16.960 --> 1:32:20.160 you got to be a kid first and foremost, and 1:32:20.280 --> 1:32:25.559 like trans kids, queer kids deserve the chance to be 1:32:26.800 --> 1:32:32.200 fucking kids. They deserve the chance to make mistakes and 1:32:33.560 --> 1:32:39.120 listen to music too loudly in their friends shitty car, 1:32:39.400 --> 1:32:43.080 and they deserve to play sports if that's what they 1:32:43.120 --> 1:32:45.320 want to do. I think in a lot of ways, 1:32:45.640 --> 1:32:48.320 my book is about how we ask teenagers to be 1:32:48.840 --> 1:32:51.719 braver than they should be, and I think that's bullshit. 1:32:52.040 --> 1:32:54.479 So I'm not going to put it on You have 1:32:54.520 --> 1:32:57.840 as much fun as you can, like ball if you can, 1:32:58.680 --> 1:33:02.400 but do but makes you happy and when and what 1:33:02.920 --> 1:33:06.600 feels safe to you is like really all I've got, Like, 1:33:06.880 --> 1:33:10.040 you know, just have fun while you're able to as 1:33:10.080 --> 1:33:12.719 a child is like yeah. 1:33:12.240 --> 1:33:14.599 No, And it's like, yeah, it's not if you are 1:33:14.720 --> 1:33:17.800 like a little ass kid A I have so sorry 1:33:17.880 --> 1:33:20.280 for how much U s We're on the show. Be like, 1:33:20.439 --> 1:33:22.280 it is not up to you right now to save 1:33:22.320 --> 1:33:24.840 the world. That is the job of fucking everyone else 1:33:24.880 --> 1:33:27.120 who listens to the show. Like, if you want there 1:33:27.120 --> 1:33:29.439 to be more queer athletes, if you want trans kids 1:33:29.439 --> 1:33:31.280 to be able to be kids, that shit's on you. 1:33:31.520 --> 1:33:33.080 Yeah, all of the rest of you who listen to 1:33:33.080 --> 1:33:34.080 the show, if you are. 1:33:34.040 --> 1:33:36.439 Also like the fucking one bazillion trans people listen to 1:33:36.479 --> 1:33:37.840 the show, this is like a bit less on you 1:33:37.880 --> 1:33:40.760 than it is on fucking everyone else. But yeah, but 1:33:40.800 --> 1:33:43.080 the best time do I started organizing was like five 1:33:43.160 --> 1:33:45.240 years ago. The second best time is right now, and 1:33:45.320 --> 1:33:48.759 the best time after that is tomorrow. So go fucking 1:33:48.800 --> 1:33:51.680 build a world where trans kids can be kids and 1:33:51.960 --> 1:33:52.479 fall out. 1:33:53.240 --> 1:33:57.320 Let kids like me hoop, let them hoop, let them 1:33:57.400 --> 1:34:00.960 hit dingers, let them ball. 1:34:01.360 --> 1:34:03.160 Hell yeah, my people need rings. 1:34:03.880 --> 1:34:07.760 My people need titles, they need trophies, they need championships. 1:34:29.840 --> 1:34:33.400 Hello, and welcome to It could happen here today. We 1:34:33.640 --> 1:34:38.360 are talking about white genocide. And when I think of genocide, 1:34:38.360 --> 1:34:41.559 there is only one name that comes to mind, and 1:34:41.600 --> 1:34:42.519 it's Molly Congo. 1:34:42.640 --> 1:34:43.719 Molly, Welcome. 1:34:46.760 --> 1:34:48.560 I just I wanted you to be here as we 1:34:48.640 --> 1:34:50.280 talked about the genocide of the white race. 1:34:50.680 --> 1:34:52.960 I mean, who better to talk about it than two 1:34:53.000 --> 1:34:54.000 pasty fellas like us. 1:34:54.479 --> 1:34:57.200 M hmm, yeah, yeah, I'm sure we're like soon for 1:34:57.240 --> 1:35:01.160 the chopping block here, Molly, what's happening? 1:35:01.640 --> 1:35:02.639 Why are we Why? 1:35:02.840 --> 1:35:05.280 Well, I will explain a little bit of what's happening, 1:35:05.320 --> 1:35:07.160 and then you can tell me how on earth we 1:35:07.200 --> 1:35:11.759 got here. The United States terminated its refugee admissions program 1:35:11.880 --> 1:35:15.439 in January of this year, right when Donald Trump became 1:35:15.439 --> 1:35:19.320 the president and signed a time of executive orders. So 1:35:19.400 --> 1:35:22.200 since then, the United States has not admitted any refugees. 1:35:22.240 --> 1:35:25.800 In February, it also stopped. The United States terminated its 1:35:25.840 --> 1:35:30.080 cooperative agreement with refugee resettlement agencies, which meant that even 1:35:30.160 --> 1:35:33.559 refugees who had arrived weren't getting the assistance that they 1:35:33.680 --> 1:35:39.160 previously got. However, on the twelfth of May, the United 1:35:39.160 --> 1:35:43.879 States have admitted fifty nine Africana refugees from South Africa, 1:35:44.439 --> 1:35:47.679 and concurrently, Donald Trump told the press that what's happening 1:35:47.840 --> 1:35:51.479 was a genocide of the white people. He said it 1:35:51.520 --> 1:35:53.519 wasn't because they were white. He said there was black people. 1:35:53.560 --> 1:35:56.160 He would do the same thing. I mean, there are 1:35:56.160 --> 1:35:59.240 several genocides impacting black people right now, and they are 1:35:59.240 --> 1:36:03.160 not getting refugee admissions to the United States. Apparently these 1:36:03.160 --> 1:36:07.760 people are being genocided. So Molly, can you explain what's 1:36:07.760 --> 1:36:10.759 going on here? How the white genocide happened? 1:36:11.160 --> 1:36:13.360 Sure, I mean, the short answer to that question is, 1:36:13.400 --> 1:36:15.760 it is not happening. It is not real. It is 1:36:15.800 --> 1:36:18.759 not a thing that is happening or in my opinion, 1:36:18.920 --> 1:36:22.639 really could meaningfully happen under the conditions that they're talking about. 1:36:23.280 --> 1:36:26.559 So again, like you said, they have terminated all refugee 1:36:26.560 --> 1:36:30.000 resettlement programs. So people coming from active war zones, active 1:36:30.040 --> 1:36:33.240 ongoing genocides, people fleeing political persecution all over the world. 1:36:33.720 --> 1:36:36.439 They don't deserve our help. They don't need our help anymore. Right, 1:36:37.160 --> 1:36:40.960 But these people, these people from South Africa are uniquely 1:36:41.040 --> 1:36:43.840 experiencing the worst thing that could happen to a person, 1:36:43.880 --> 1:36:48.880 I guess, which is white genocide. So white genocide, I 1:36:48.920 --> 1:36:53.000 think is often sort of used interchangeably with great replacement theory. 1:36:53.040 --> 1:36:55.519 So the white genocide conspiracy theory and the great replacement theory, 1:36:55.560 --> 1:36:58.200 I think they're hand in hand. They're very similar, there's 1:36:58.200 --> 1:37:01.400 a lot of overlap, and they're used interchange but white 1:37:01.400 --> 1:37:04.799 genocide is much more specific and it's more recent iteration 1:37:04.920 --> 1:37:07.960 on the theme. It comes from a mid nineties book 1:37:08.000 --> 1:37:11.040 written in prison by a neo Nazi terrorist named David Lane. 1:37:11.920 --> 1:37:17.280 David Lane notably coined the fourteen words we know, you know, 1:37:17.280 --> 1:37:19.760 the fourteen we don't need to say. He had a 1:37:19.760 --> 1:37:23.400 lot of anxiety that if we don't do something, white 1:37:23.439 --> 1:37:26.360 people will become extinct, will be pushed out of existence 1:37:26.520 --> 1:37:30.120 by immigrants who are out breeding us. You know, there's 1:37:30.560 --> 1:37:34.400 this sort of concurrent belief that pornography, which is, you know, 1:37:34.560 --> 1:37:36.880 in their minds, something that is a Jewish tool of 1:37:36.880 --> 1:37:38.800 oppression of the white race. That is, you know, it's 1:37:38.840 --> 1:37:42.400 causing us to do interbreeding, it's deluding our bloodlines. So 1:37:42.600 --> 1:37:45.559 you know, all of these things together are going to 1:37:45.560 --> 1:37:49.479 push white people out of existence, which again not happening, 1:37:49.640 --> 1:37:52.320 not true, not a real thing that can happen, but 1:37:52.360 --> 1:37:56.200 it's something they're very anxious about. But when you spend 1:37:56.240 --> 1:37:58.320 a lot of time talking about how white people are 1:37:58.320 --> 1:38:01.240 being pushed out of existence, you've got to be able 1:38:01.280 --> 1:38:02.960 to point to something. You have to point to a 1:38:02.960 --> 1:38:05.840 place where a white person has been meaningfully harmed, and 1:38:05.880 --> 1:38:09.559 they can't really do that to the talking point that 1:38:09.560 --> 1:38:12.240 they fall back on most often when you're talking about 1:38:12.280 --> 1:38:14.880 white genocide, you know, you're really wringing your hands about this, 1:38:14.920 --> 1:38:16.320 and you have to be able to point to something. 1:38:16.400 --> 1:38:20.800 They point to the South African farm murders. Is this 1:38:21.000 --> 1:38:25.120 idea that white farmers in South Africa are being targeted 1:38:25.160 --> 1:38:29.479 for murder and mass that is this massive ongoing campaign 1:38:29.560 --> 1:38:34.000 of violence, which again is not happening and is not true. 1:38:35.120 --> 1:38:37.920 There is a more violent crime in the country of 1:38:37.960 --> 1:38:42.200 South Africa than in other similarly positioned nations. They do 1:38:42.280 --> 1:38:44.479 have a little bit more violent crime than we do here, 1:38:44.520 --> 1:38:47.439 for instance, But if you break down the numbers and 1:38:47.560 --> 1:38:50.280 they have they have conducted a multi year study of this, 1:38:50.680 --> 1:38:54.960 you know, hypothetical phenomenon. White farmers are not being targeted 1:38:54.960 --> 1:38:57.559 for murder. They're not being murdered in larger numbers than 1:38:57.560 --> 1:39:00.000 any other demographic. It's just not a thing that's happened. 1:39:00.400 --> 1:39:03.519 Yeah, I know, it's almost like a laughable claim or like, 1:39:03.640 --> 1:39:07.960 except that it's also terribly sad when like Israel, it's 1:39:08.040 --> 1:39:10.800 just kind of Babe ruthing a genocide in Garza. Now 1:39:10.800 --> 1:39:14.120 they're not even trying to pretend anymore. They're like, no, 1:39:14.160 --> 1:39:16.240 we're going to kill everyone by starving them. That's what 1:39:16.560 --> 1:39:19.000 we would like to do. And obviously those people cannot 1:39:19.080 --> 1:39:22.200 enter the United States. It's refugees, but these folks from 1:39:22.240 --> 1:39:26.120 South Africa can. How did it go from any Nazi 1:39:26.160 --> 1:39:28.960 in prison to the brain of the President of the 1:39:29.080 --> 1:39:29.799 United States. 1:39:30.320 --> 1:39:34.519 I mean that idea sort of filtered into American right 1:39:34.560 --> 1:39:39.080 wing think space over the last I guess thirty years 1:39:39.120 --> 1:39:44.400 since Lane wrote that manifesto from prison, slowly and through 1:39:44.920 --> 1:39:49.160 multiple origin points. But I have argued repeatedly over the 1:39:49.240 --> 1:39:51.160 last several months that we can point to you exactly 1:39:51.200 --> 1:39:53.920 the moment that Donald Trump heard about this. There is 1:39:53.960 --> 1:39:57.160 a specific moment in time in August of twenty eighteen 1:39:57.960 --> 1:40:00.720 when Donald Trump first found out the plight of the 1:40:00.720 --> 1:40:03.040 white South African and I have the date somewhere in 1:40:03.040 --> 1:40:04.600 my notes, but it was it was one evening in 1:40:04.640 --> 1:40:08.320 August of twenty eighteen when he was watching Tucker Carlson Shocking. 1:40:08.840 --> 1:40:11.000 He was watching an episode of Tucker's show back when 1:40:11.000 --> 1:40:13.839 it was still on TV, and he had some policy 1:40:13.880 --> 1:40:17.040 analysts from the Heritage Foundation on to talk about this, 1:40:17.040 --> 1:40:20.240 this terrible thing that's happening. And about forty five minutes 1:40:20.280 --> 1:40:24.200 after that segment aired, Donald Trump tweeted the word Africa 1:40:24.280 --> 1:40:29.080 for the first time. He has tweeted thousands and thousands 1:40:29.080 --> 1:40:32.360 and thousands of times about a lot about Robert Pattinson's 1:40:32.400 --> 1:40:35.120 relationship with Kristen Stewart, you know, things about diet coke, 1:40:35.200 --> 1:40:36.000 things about vaccines. 1:40:36.000 --> 1:40:36.880 He's tweeted a lot of things. 1:40:36.880 --> 1:40:40.160 But he tweeted about Africa for the first time forty 1:40:40.160 --> 1:40:42.360 five minutes after the segment on Tucker Carlson, and he 1:40:42.560 --> 1:40:45.559 had bought into this idea that these people are being 1:40:45.640 --> 1:40:46.720 uniquely persecuted. 1:40:46.960 --> 1:40:47.640 God. 1:40:48.160 --> 1:40:52.719 Yeah, Carlson has mainstreamed a lot of these like white 1:40:52.800 --> 1:40:55.640 nationalists talking points, but yeah, this one. And you have 1:40:55.640 --> 1:40:57.320 a really good series on this on your show, right, 1:40:57.360 --> 1:40:59.680 Like if people want to people want to learn more 1:40:59.720 --> 1:41:04.400 about the plight of the Africana, you can explain that 1:41:04.680 --> 1:41:05.599 over several hours. 1:41:05.720 --> 1:41:09.280 Yes, I spent three months sort of tracing this story 1:41:09.800 --> 1:41:12.559 in hainstaking detail. If you're interested in checking that out 1:41:12.840 --> 1:41:14.600 over on We'd Little Guys. 1:41:15.360 --> 1:41:16.120 And you should. It's great. 1:41:16.160 --> 1:41:21.000 It's great, good podcast. I highly recommend. So, like we've 1:41:21.040 --> 1:41:24.439 seen this thing gradually gained momentum, I guess. And then 1:41:24.960 --> 1:41:28.000 at some point obviously someone got into Trump's here in 1:41:28.040 --> 1:41:32.479 the last month and he made an executive order right. 1:41:32.720 --> 1:41:34.360 He shared the secret Order. 1:41:34.360 --> 1:41:37.800 I'm just going to read from it now, quote refugee 1:41:37.800 --> 1:41:41.400 resettlement and other humanitarian considerations. The Secretary of State and 1:41:41.439 --> 1:41:44.799 the Secretary of Homeland Security shall take appropriate steps consistent 1:41:44.840 --> 1:41:49.920 with law to prioritize yeah, law, yea, we're gonna get 1:41:49.960 --> 1:41:53.960 to that, to prioritize humanitarian relief, including a mission and 1:41:54.000 --> 1:41:58.480 resettlement through the United States refuge Admissions Program for Africanas 1:41:58.520 --> 1:42:01.920 in South Africa who are victims of unjust racial discrimination. 1:42:02.280 --> 1:42:04.400 Such plan should be submitted to the President through the 1:42:04.520 --> 1:42:07.880 Assistant to the President and Homeland Security Advisor. 1:42:08.920 --> 1:42:10.280 So like he's. 1:42:10.160 --> 1:42:14.160 Asking them to develop a plan basically for resettling these 1:42:14.200 --> 1:42:17.160 white South Africans in the United States, right. 1:42:17.439 --> 1:42:19.519 Right, So when he says that it's not about race, now, 1:42:19.560 --> 1:42:20.880 when he's pushed on that now and he says, oh, 1:42:20.880 --> 1:42:23.080 it's not about race, it's not because they're white. They 1:42:23.080 --> 1:42:26.479 word Afrikaaners appears in the executive order, and that doesn't 1:42:26.520 --> 1:42:29.719 just mean South. That's not a demographic term for people 1:42:29.720 --> 1:42:32.320 from South Africa. It is a racial term for the 1:42:32.360 --> 1:42:35.880 descendants of Dutch settlers. Those people are white. 1:42:36.080 --> 1:42:39.520 Yeah, No, Like by definition, right, they are white South Africans. 1:42:40.280 --> 1:42:43.960 They are like therefore definitionly the group that benefited from 1:42:44.040 --> 1:42:45.439 the apartheid era very much. 1:42:45.439 --> 1:42:45.519 So. 1:42:45.920 --> 1:42:50.120 As if this wasn't clear enough, Christopher Landau appeared at 1:42:50.120 --> 1:42:55.880 a press conference meeting these refugees wearing an orange white 1:42:55.960 --> 1:42:58.719 and blue tie. It's quite a unique tie. I actually 1:42:58.760 --> 1:43:02.000 googled orange white and blue. I couldn't find one for 1:43:02.040 --> 1:43:03.920 people who are not familiar. That is the part idea 1:43:03.920 --> 1:43:06.200 of flag of the Republic of South Africa. 1:43:06.840 --> 1:43:11.280 That is a deep cut. The decision to use that 1:43:11.360 --> 1:43:16.360 particular color scheme when you're greeting these bore refugees is 1:43:16.800 --> 1:43:18.320 very intentional and very odd. 1:43:18.680 --> 1:43:21.120 Yeah, it's got to be a choice, right, Like, no 1:43:21.120 --> 1:43:24.120 one has a striped orange white and navy blue tie 1:43:24.439 --> 1:43:26.360 like lying around. 1:43:26.479 --> 1:43:29.680 And the sort of dedication to reviving that as a 1:43:29.760 --> 1:43:34.640 symbol is not without precedent. So with Dylan Rufe, the 1:43:34.760 --> 1:43:37.800 Charleston church murderer, had on patches, he had the flag 1:43:37.800 --> 1:43:40.439 of Rhodesia. Obviously they love Rhodesia. Yeah, but he had 1:43:40.479 --> 1:43:43.519 the apartheid era orange white and blue South African flag 1:43:44.400 --> 1:43:48.920 and that was strange and unique enough as a symbol 1:43:48.920 --> 1:43:51.639 that an American would dig up and identify with yes. 1:43:51.680 --> 1:43:54.200 So the South African press noted it at the time 1:43:54.280 --> 1:43:55.400 of the Charleston church shooting. 1:43:55.800 --> 1:43:57.520 Yeah, it was not in the mainstream. 1:43:57.640 --> 1:43:59.960 That is a troubling sartorial trie. 1:44:00.560 --> 1:44:03.840 Yeah, yeah, it's it is worrying, like there's yes, like 1:44:03.880 --> 1:44:07.120 you says, there's a line from the from the africaas 1:44:07.120 --> 1:44:11.479 through Dylan Roof to this horrific ideology. Right, do you 1:44:11.479 --> 1:44:14.200 know what what probably doesn't have a direct line to 1:44:14.240 --> 1:44:15.920 a part We can't be sure of that, I guess, 1:44:16.240 --> 1:44:18.960 but hopefully hopefully that these products and services do not 1:44:19.000 --> 1:44:20.720 have a direct through line from apartheid. 1:44:20.880 --> 1:44:23.280 Well, probably it's not the Washington State patrol again. 1:44:23.800 --> 1:44:36.519 Yeah, all right, we're back. Hopefully that was something nice. 1:44:36.880 --> 1:44:38.720 I want to talk a little bit about the US 1:44:38.800 --> 1:44:42.760 Refugee of Missions program. So I think people sometimes misunderstand 1:44:43.439 --> 1:44:46.240 the program, what it means, where it comes from, who 1:44:46.240 --> 1:44:48.439 it's for. So to begin with, like, I want to 1:44:48.479 --> 1:44:51.120 distinguish between asylum seekers and refugees because I think in 1:44:51.280 --> 1:44:56.320 like the popular lexicon, these two words are used interchangeably. 1:44:57.000 --> 1:45:00.719 A refugee is outside of the United States and makes 1:45:01.080 --> 1:45:04.519 an application through the US Refugee Admissions Program, and that 1:45:04.640 --> 1:45:09.640 application is processed and approved or rejected or delayed or 1:45:10.520 --> 1:45:12.360 left for years and years and years while they are 1:45:12.400 --> 1:45:15.960 outside the United States. An asylum seeker is someone who 1:45:16.000 --> 1:45:18.479 is either inside the United States or presenting at the 1:45:18.479 --> 1:45:21.559 border of the United States and requesting asylum. So they're 1:45:21.600 --> 1:45:22.640 different categories. 1:45:22.720 --> 1:45:22.920 Right. 1:45:23.520 --> 1:45:28.920 Generally, to be a refugee, one has to register with 1:45:28.960 --> 1:45:33.320 the United Nations High Commission on Refugees, and thus one 1:45:33.360 --> 1:45:38.639 has to have fled one's home country. It's somewhat notable 1:45:38.680 --> 1:45:41.719 that this flight came from Johannesburg, right, Like these people 1:45:42.400 --> 1:45:43.679 were in South Africa. 1:45:44.040 --> 1:45:48.640 Well, apparently DHS set up office space in Pretoria and 1:45:48.640 --> 1:45:51.200 they were conducted these interviews in Pretoria. 1:45:51.520 --> 1:45:54.000 Right, which again is unusual. Right, So you have to 1:45:54.080 --> 1:45:57.360 normally go to a resettlement support center. 1:45:57.640 --> 1:45:57.840 Right. 1:45:58.160 --> 1:46:00.360 And I want to talk about the process of background 1:46:00.439 --> 1:46:03.800 checks in a minute, because surprise surprises didn't happen here, 1:46:03.840 --> 1:46:06.559 at least not as far as I'm aware. If it did, 1:46:06.600 --> 1:46:08.519 it to the most expedited version of this process that 1:46:08.560 --> 1:46:12.599 we've ever seen. So these refugees have been admitted as 1:46:12.720 --> 1:46:16.080 P one refugees, and people talk about P one like 1:46:16.120 --> 1:46:19.840 it's a visa category. It's not actually it's a priority category. 1:46:20.160 --> 1:46:23.639 There are four priority categories for people getting refugee visas. 1:46:24.360 --> 1:46:28.960 P one cases, the highest priority, are normally referred by embassies, 1:46:29.400 --> 1:46:33.080 the United Nations High Commission on Refugees, or non governmental organizations. 1:46:33.200 --> 1:46:35.439 If people have heard of this at all, it's probably 1:46:35.479 --> 1:46:38.559 with reference to Afghan folks who worked with the United 1:46:38.600 --> 1:46:42.400 States who are not being omitted in the United States 1:46:42.560 --> 1:46:45.439 refuge emission program right now. Some of them are stuck 1:46:45.479 --> 1:46:48.479 in third countries, even at airports if they don't have 1:46:48.520 --> 1:46:51.960 a visa for that third country, right, waiting to work out, 1:46:52.320 --> 1:46:54.679 like what the US is going to do this time 1:46:54.720 --> 1:46:58.679 after lying to them for decades and letting them down again. 1:46:58.960 --> 1:47:01.800 And unlike these realists state agents from Johannesburg, they can't 1:47:01.800 --> 1:47:02.839 just go back home. 1:47:03.400 --> 1:47:06.360 Yeah, right, like that they actually have fear of persecution 1:47:06.400 --> 1:47:09.160 if they do, which is not the case for the 1:47:09.240 --> 1:47:12.519 South African folks. P two are people like there are 1:47:12.600 --> 1:47:16.599 special groups designated for humanitarian concern like some congal these 1:47:16.600 --> 1:47:20.759 people living in Rwanda in the past, and Bermese groups 1:47:20.800 --> 1:47:24.680 living in Thailand have been P two. P three are 1:47:24.680 --> 1:47:27.880 family reunification cases, so you can you know if one 1:47:27.880 --> 1:47:30.040 person has refugee status come to the United States so 1:47:30.040 --> 1:47:32.400 they can bring the rest of their family. And then 1:47:32.520 --> 1:47:35.400 P four are people who have sponsors to something called 1:47:35.400 --> 1:47:39.640 the Welcome Core. Familiar with a Welcome Core, Molly, I 1:47:39.640 --> 1:47:39.880 am not. 1:47:40.479 --> 1:47:40.639 No. 1:47:40.680 --> 1:47:42.840 It sounds like the coolest brand to the military, you know, 1:47:42.920 --> 1:47:45.679 like like you've got the Marines and then the Welcome 1:47:45.720 --> 1:47:47.880 Core next door. The Welcome Core was set up in 1:47:47.920 --> 1:47:51.360 twenty twenty three by the Biden administration to allow five 1:47:51.600 --> 1:47:54.439 US citizens I think a minimum of five to get 1:47:54.479 --> 1:47:57.240 together to sponsor someone for refuge admission for the United 1:47:57.240 --> 1:48:01.160 States and basically take responsibility for their house seeing and 1:48:01.200 --> 1:48:04.719 for like reorienting them in the US community, right, getting 1:48:04.720 --> 1:48:08.639 their kids enrolled in school, helping them find a job, 1:48:08.720 --> 1:48:11.280 all that kind of stuff. It was a cool program. 1:48:11.439 --> 1:48:15.679 It lasted less than two years. That Donald Trump rolled 1:48:15.680 --> 1:48:19.360 that up in January of twenty twenty five, so we 1:48:19.680 --> 1:48:23.680 don't really have P four cases anymore. So all admissions 1:48:23.760 --> 1:48:26.200 were holding in January and February, the government, as I said, 1:48:26.240 --> 1:48:30.360 cut all cooperative agreements with resettlement agencies. So let's talk 1:48:30.400 --> 1:48:34.560 about what the normal process looks like for refugees. Generally, 1:48:34.640 --> 1:48:39.160 they require several years of background checks and interviews. For many, 1:48:39.360 --> 1:48:42.080 it's not possible in their countries. For most right, for instance, 1:48:42.080 --> 1:48:46.400 there is not a resettlement support center in Afghanistan, so 1:48:46.400 --> 1:48:48.000 people have to leave. That's how you see them in 1:48:48.040 --> 1:48:51.200 Pakistan right. What you're seeing now actually is Afghan people 1:48:51.240 --> 1:48:54.200 who are in Pakistan have timed out on their visas 1:48:54.200 --> 1:48:58.840 in Pakistan, so they're now facing like immigration enforcement there 1:48:59.240 --> 1:49:01.479 because they haven't been able to get resettled in the 1:49:01.640 --> 1:49:07.240 US before their Pakistan visa expires. They go through medical 1:49:07.320 --> 1:49:11.040 and biometric checks. There are at least two interviews. There 1:49:11.040 --> 1:49:14.200 are security checks. When they do their first interview, they 1:49:14.200 --> 1:49:16.880 have to give in things like their identifying documents, work history, 1:49:17.120 --> 1:49:19.679 declare of their family relationships, all that kind of stuff. 1:49:20.080 --> 1:49:22.400 Then they have an interview with US Citizenship and Immigration 1:49:22.479 --> 1:49:26.040 Service after that. Then if they are admitted, they take 1:49:26.080 --> 1:49:30.439 cultural orientation classes before traveling. If that's when you learn 1:49:30.520 --> 1:49:32.959 how to be an American. I don't know what involves, 1:49:33.320 --> 1:49:36.120 but they have to take those before they come, and 1:49:36.160 --> 1:49:40.080 then the US government works with the iom for travel right, 1:49:40.160 --> 1:49:42.920 and that travel is funded through a zero interest loan 1:49:43.280 --> 1:49:48.160 to the refugee. So like in every other case, you 1:49:48.320 --> 1:49:50.240 pay for your flight. You have to pay it back 1:49:50.240 --> 1:49:52.320 starting six months when you get to the United States. 1:49:52.840 --> 1:49:56.280 That has not been the case for our Africana refugee friends, 1:49:56.400 --> 1:49:58.880 right that it appears that the United States government chartered 1:49:58.880 --> 1:50:02.960 a flight on their behalf. Once the refugees arrive, they 1:50:03.000 --> 1:50:06.439 are referred to a resettlement agency. Some of the names 1:50:06.439 --> 1:50:10.080 people might be familiar with, like Highest their Hebrew Immigrant 1:50:10.120 --> 1:50:14.559 Aid Society, who have literally been resettling refugees since the 1:50:14.640 --> 1:50:17.439 refugee in asylum see GA category was created right as 1:50:17.479 --> 1:50:21.400 a response to the Holocaust. Maybe IRC is another one 1:50:21.400 --> 1:50:22.559 people are familiar with. 1:50:22.560 --> 1:50:26.600 Which, interestingly, Hyas was the target of ire of a 1:50:26.760 --> 1:50:30.960 great replacement theory motivated mass shooter here in America. Yesbert 1:50:31.040 --> 1:50:33.880 Robert Bauers posted a lot about Hyas in the days 1:50:33.920 --> 1:50:36.240 and weeks before he carried out that mass shooting. 1:50:36.640 --> 1:50:39.400 Yeah, the Tree of Life Synagogue. People aren't familiar. Yeah, 1:50:39.640 --> 1:50:41.920 and that was at the time of the quote unquote 1:50:42.000 --> 1:50:45.559 migrant caravan fall of twenty eighteen, would. 1:50:45.320 --> 1:50:47.759 It, Yes, that would be that time period. 1:50:48.320 --> 1:50:51.479 Yeah, that was a pretty big time. I was in 1:50:52.280 --> 1:50:55.599 Tijuana a lot at that time with seeing a migrant caravan. 1:50:55.640 --> 1:50:58.840 Folks were interviewing folks trying to help. Yeah, coming back 1:50:58.840 --> 1:51:02.200 to that was remember thinking, like what a fucked up world. 1:51:02.560 --> 1:51:05.000 So those people didn't get refugee emissions, right, those people 1:51:05.280 --> 1:51:10.240 were here seeking asylum. The system right now is suspended. Right, 1:51:10.280 --> 1:51:13.080 and as many as twelve thousand people who have been 1:51:13.160 --> 1:51:17.160 approved are waiting for travel authorization should come to the 1:51:17.240 --> 1:51:17.920 United States. 1:51:17.920 --> 1:51:19.760 So they're completely in limber. 1:51:19.640 --> 1:51:22.519 Right, You're in limbo and at great personal risk. 1:51:23.120 --> 1:51:26.519 Yeah, yeah, they're in I mean people spent twenty years 1:51:26.560 --> 1:51:30.679 in refugee camps waiting to be admitted to the United States. 1:51:30.760 --> 1:51:34.559 And like, it's hard for me to describe I tried 1:51:34.600 --> 1:51:38.680 to my Darien Gap series, Right, how desperately sad refugee 1:51:38.760 --> 1:51:41.640 camps are as places, right, And I think people think 1:51:41.680 --> 1:51:43.200 of refugee camps a's like, oh, you go there for 1:51:43.200 --> 1:51:45.000 a few weeks and you sleep under a big white ten. 1:51:45.240 --> 1:51:46.960 No children are born and raised there. 1:51:47.240 --> 1:51:50.840 Yeah, people live their whole lives in refugee camps. You know, 1:51:50.880 --> 1:51:53.720 they're the ones that they tibermesport have been there since 1:51:53.720 --> 1:51:56.719 the nineteen forties. But they live their whole lives, often 1:51:56.760 --> 1:51:58.679 without even basic essential services. 1:51:58.760 --> 1:51:58.920 Right. 1:51:59.360 --> 1:52:01.400 I did see for since highest had a little school 1:52:01.720 --> 1:52:04.080 in Lajas Blancas, which is one of these UN refugee 1:52:04.080 --> 1:52:06.759 camps in Panama. The recent they have a little school 1:52:07.160 --> 1:52:09.880 is because children spend so long there that they miss 1:52:09.920 --> 1:52:12.880 out on their education if they don't have a little 1:52:12.920 --> 1:52:13.639 school for them. 1:52:13.720 --> 1:52:15.880 And so that's just an insult to injury in this 1:52:15.920 --> 1:52:18.439 whole process, right. It's not only is he shutting off 1:52:18.560 --> 1:52:23.000 this avenue for refugee status for everyone else and giving 1:52:23.000 --> 1:52:24.720 it to these people who, you know, I think it's 1:52:24.760 --> 1:52:27.679 fair to say don't deserve it. Yeah, but he's made 1:52:27.680 --> 1:52:30.240 this process so simple and so easy and so painless, 1:52:30.280 --> 1:52:33.000 and that not only are they not fleeing persecution, but 1:52:33.200 --> 1:52:35.360 they're getting this fast tracked, this easy pass. 1:52:35.680 --> 1:52:39.280 Yeah, and like we're paying for it. I mean I 1:52:39.320 --> 1:52:42.000 remember recently some friends and I were helping someone who'd 1:52:42.000 --> 1:52:45.400 admitted to the US not as a refuge actually on 1:52:45.840 --> 1:52:49.920 a different visa category. But like they were really having 1:52:50.479 --> 1:52:54.200 a hard time navigating the basics and funding that, so 1:52:54.320 --> 1:52:55.559 like we were able to help them out. 1:52:55.920 --> 1:52:59.519 I mean, obviously international immigration is a difficult process. It 1:52:59.520 --> 1:53:02.880 wouldn't be. I mean, you and you've immigrated internationally, right, 1:53:02.880 --> 1:53:06.240 It's not a simple process. No, But looking at the 1:53:06.360 --> 1:53:08.519 people who have taken Trump up on this offer of 1:53:08.600 --> 1:53:12.280 refugee resettlement. These appear to be people who could have 1:53:12.520 --> 1:53:14.920 simply immigrated had they chosen to. 1:53:15.640 --> 1:53:17.719 Yeah, it seems that way. They could have just moved. 1:53:18.160 --> 1:53:20.320 Yeah, they could have I mean come here on like 1:53:20.760 --> 1:53:23.479 a B one visa or like, I mean, pathways to 1:53:23.560 --> 1:53:27.280 citizenship are relatively rare if you just like, say, you 1:53:27.320 --> 1:53:29.280 want to move to the US, right, like you just 1:53:29.320 --> 1:53:31.599 want to become an American unless you have a bunch 1:53:31.600 --> 1:53:34.680 of money. So like, these guys will have a pathway citizenship. 1:53:34.800 --> 1:53:37.760 It's not quite clear how Trump said that they will 1:53:37.760 --> 1:53:40.920 have one. What does that mean. I know, normally, if 1:53:40.920 --> 1:53:43.240 you're omitted as a refugee, you can file for permanent 1:53:43.280 --> 1:53:46.519 residency in a year, and then after a number of years, 1:53:46.520 --> 1:53:47.919 you could file to be a citizen. 1:53:48.320 --> 1:53:50.639 I just noticed as we're talking, so you know, I'm 1:53:50.640 --> 1:53:52.800 not familiar with how the process normally works. Like that's 1:53:53.040 --> 1:53:55.280 that's your wheelhouse. That's something you're very familiar with. So 1:53:55.280 --> 1:53:57.640 maybe this is normal. It just looks strange to me. 1:53:58.320 --> 1:53:59.880 So I've been on vacation the last week, so I'm 1:53:59.920 --> 1:54:03.080 just back today. So I just opened up the embassy's 1:54:03.080 --> 1:54:05.320 website because you know, as I was writing this story 1:54:05.360 --> 1:54:07.840 and sort of tracking this as it developed, there wasn't 1:54:07.840 --> 1:54:10.880 good guidance from the Consulate on what this process would 1:54:10.920 --> 1:54:12.960 look like. So I'm just looking at it again today 1:54:13.080 --> 1:54:15.280 and they have updated it as of yesterday. This is 1:54:15.320 --> 1:54:19.040 the US Embassy and Consulate in South Africa. New update yesterday. 1:54:19.080 --> 1:54:22.000 There is a form you can fill out, James. 1:54:22.040 --> 1:54:22.800 It's a Google doc. 1:54:23.600 --> 1:54:28.040 It is a Google form. The US Embassy website has 1:54:28.040 --> 1:54:29.920 a link to a Google form that you can fill 1:54:29.920 --> 1:54:32.880 out if you want to become great. 1:54:33.120 --> 1:54:34.440 I'm sure that's highly secure. 1:54:34.760 --> 1:54:38.760 Yeah, well, well it's funny. I was on that website 1:54:38.760 --> 1:54:43.560 early today as well. That is oh dear, that is sad. 1:54:45.240 --> 1:54:48.400 I mean, yeah, I don't think a Google doc can 1:54:48.440 --> 1:54:50.320 possibly be as secure as it would need to be 1:54:50.520 --> 1:54:53.200 to have the amount of information the government gets on 1:54:53.240 --> 1:54:55.200 you when you become a refuge is all the information? 1:54:55.560 --> 1:54:55.760 Right? 1:54:56.720 --> 1:55:00.280 Just to outline the criteria to be eligible for US 1:55:00.280 --> 1:55:04.240 resettlement consideration, individuals must meet the following criteria. They must 1:55:04.280 --> 1:55:08.560 be of South African nationality and must be of African 1:55:08.800 --> 1:55:12.040 ethnicity or be a member of a racial minority in 1:55:12.080 --> 1:55:12.680 South Africa. 1:55:12.800 --> 1:55:13.880 I thought it wasn't about race. 1:55:14.520 --> 1:55:16.880 Yeah, I thought it was. 1:55:17.040 --> 1:55:18.080 I thought it wasn't about race. 1:55:17.960 --> 1:55:20.160 James, Yeah, right, it seems. 1:55:20.640 --> 1:55:22.560 And then they must be able to articulate a past 1:55:22.600 --> 1:55:26.680 experience of persecution or fear of future persecution. What they 1:55:26.920 --> 1:55:29.920 don't mention here is that, like normally, there are protected 1:55:29.960 --> 1:55:32.880 categories into which refugees and asylum seekers have to fit. Right, 1:55:32.960 --> 1:55:36.840 there's a race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group, 1:55:36.920 --> 1:55:39.480 or political opinion. I mean, I guess, I guess you 1:55:39.520 --> 1:55:43.280 could argue that, like the Africanas are not per se 1:55:43.320 --> 1:55:45.960 a race, right like that, like there are there could be. 1:55:46.640 --> 1:55:48.960 It's conceivable that one could be white out of South 1:55:49.000 --> 1:55:51.360 African nationality but not be Africana. 1:55:51.840 --> 1:55:53.680 Oh very much, so, very much so. I mean there's 1:55:53.680 --> 1:55:57.640 a African is a very specific sort of genealogical lineage. 1:55:58.040 --> 1:56:00.840 Yeah, and like which is W's. 1:56:01.360 --> 1:56:03.280 Which is why I think they have been careful here 1:56:03.320 --> 1:56:05.320 to say or a member of a racial minority, because 1:56:05.320 --> 1:56:07.120 they're saying, like, look, we're not going to do the genealogy. 1:56:07.240 --> 1:56:10.000 We don't care if your great grandfather was Dutch. We 1:56:10.160 --> 1:56:11.440 just need you to be white. We just need you 1:56:11.440 --> 1:56:11.880 to be white. 1:56:11.960 --> 1:56:13.880 Yeah, when you arrive, you can do a twenty three 1:56:13.880 --> 1:56:16.680 and meter test and then they do your percentage and 1:56:16.720 --> 1:56:18.080 you know, then they put you back on the plane. 1:56:18.120 --> 1:56:20.120 No, they just got the pantone color scale. They're just 1:56:20.160 --> 1:56:22.200 going to hold up the page colored paint chip. 1:56:22.840 --> 1:56:26.720 Yeah, they get you at what they called fucking the 1:56:26.760 --> 1:56:28.320 paint shop there where you go in and they mix 1:56:28.360 --> 1:56:31.440 it for you. So yeah, they didn't mention these protected 1:56:31.480 --> 1:56:34.520 categories here. The US State Department of Set has received 1:56:34.600 --> 1:56:38.760 eight thousand inquiries from people seeking information about the refue program. 1:56:39.040 --> 1:56:41.320 And that's a lot of people. That is a large 1:56:41.400 --> 1:56:56.080 number of people. The Episcopal Church here in the United 1:56:56.120 --> 1:57:00.880 States right like a notably woke organization, I would say Episcopal. 1:57:01.320 --> 1:57:04.320 I mean they do good Episcopal migration ministries do good work. 1:57:04.560 --> 1:57:07.240 You won't find me shaped talking. They do good things 1:57:07.280 --> 1:57:10.280 for people who need help. It has ended its partnership 1:57:10.280 --> 1:57:12.480 with the United States government. So I'm going to read 1:57:12.480 --> 1:57:16.040 a little bit here from Presiding Bishop Sean wrote the 1:57:16.160 --> 1:57:18.320 first time for me quoting a bishop on the podcast. 1:57:18.920 --> 1:57:22.560 Since January, the previously biparts in US refuge admissions program 1:57:22.560 --> 1:57:26.280 in which we participate has essentially shut down. Virtually no 1:57:26.400 --> 1:57:29.600 new refugees have arrived, Hundreds of staff and resettlement agencies 1:57:29.600 --> 1:57:31.840 around the country have been laid off, and funding for 1:57:31.880 --> 1:57:35.360 resettling refugees who have already arrived has been uncertain. Then, 1:57:35.520 --> 1:57:38.400 just over two weeks ago, the federal government informed episcocal 1:57:38.480 --> 1:57:41.960 migration ministries, under the terms of our federal grant, we're 1:57:42.000 --> 1:57:45.640 expected to resettle white Africanas from South Africa, whom the 1:57:45.720 --> 1:57:48.720 US government has classified as refugees. In light of our 1:57:48.800 --> 1:57:52.160 churches steadfast commitment to racial justice and reconciliation and our 1:57:52.240 --> 1:57:55.280 historic ties was the Anglican Church of South Africa, we're 1:57:55.280 --> 1:57:58.080 not able to take this step. Accordingly, we have determined 1:57:58.080 --> 1:58:00.040 that by the end of the federal fiscal year we 1:58:00.040 --> 1:58:02.800 will conclude our refugee resettlement grand agreements with the US 1:58:02.880 --> 1:58:06.959 federal government, skipping a bit. Then, it has been painful 1:58:07.000 --> 1:58:09.880 to watch one group of refugees, selected in a highly 1:58:10.000 --> 1:58:13.280 unusual manner, receive preferential treatment over many others who have 1:58:13.360 --> 1:58:16.040 been waiting in refugee camps or dangerous conditions for years. 1:58:16.760 --> 1:58:19.160 I am saddened and ashamed that many other refugees who 1:58:19.160 --> 1:58:21.360 are being denied entry to the United States have brave 1:58:21.400 --> 1:58:24.320 people who worked alongside our military in Iraq and Afghanistan 1:58:24.680 --> 1:58:26.600 and now faced danger at home because it has service 1:58:26.640 --> 1:58:30.120 to our country. They also grieve that victims of religious persecution, 1:58:30.200 --> 1:58:33.360 including Christians, have not been granted refuge in recent months. 1:58:33.880 --> 1:58:35.720 Good for them, honestly. 1:58:35.480 --> 1:58:37.560 Yeah, Like because I think, I mean think maybe people. 1:58:37.440 --> 1:58:40.080 Don't think about this or don't realize that a lot 1:58:40.120 --> 1:58:42.960 of these programs like this is a federally grant funded 1:58:43.400 --> 1:58:46.800 federal program through a partnership with the Episcopal Church. Like 1:58:47.000 --> 1:58:48.640 you know, in the early days of DOGE, you know, 1:58:48.680 --> 1:58:50.920 they were saying like, oh, we found all this wasteful spending, 1:58:50.920 --> 1:58:53.920 all this you know, suspicious payments to these religious organizations. 1:58:54.280 --> 1:58:57.160 Those are social programs we have outsourced. We have outsourced 1:58:57.160 --> 1:59:00.160 all of these government functions to these church based social programs. 1:59:00.440 --> 1:59:01.960 You know, for better or worse. Say about that what 1:59:02.040 --> 1:59:04.000 you will, but that is in fact how many of 1:59:04.000 --> 1:59:04.800 these things function. 1:59:05.560 --> 1:59:05.800 Yeah. 1:59:06.000 --> 1:59:08.600 Like when I think about, like, you know, I've spent 1:59:08.640 --> 1:59:10.240 a decent amount of time in refuge camps. 1:59:10.360 --> 1:59:12.280 The majority of the services that. 1:59:12.360 --> 1:59:16.879 Are provided by faith paped programs. Highest there's Bethtal World Ministries. 1:59:16.920 --> 1:59:23.000 I think it's called Catholic charities. It'sian migration ministries, there's 1:59:23.520 --> 1:59:25.520 caulca Aid, the Sikh Group, right, I don't think they 1:59:25.600 --> 1:59:28.560 receive any federal Maybe I don't think they receive federal funding. 1:59:28.840 --> 1:59:31.760 But I think for the Episcopal Church as a massive 1:59:31.960 --> 1:59:34.880 organization to come out and say, yeah, we won't dirty 1:59:34.880 --> 1:59:37.000 our hands with this, that's incredible. 1:59:37.200 --> 1:59:41.080 No, it's great, and like more organizations should. I think 1:59:41.080 --> 1:59:44.560 they're being resettled in Virginia for the most part. 1:59:44.600 --> 1:59:45.800 Good, that's where I live. 1:59:45.880 --> 1:59:49.120 James, Oh good, yeah, great, Well you know you could 1:59:49.120 --> 1:59:51.640 take one in, Molly. You could have a little African 1:59:51.760 --> 1:59:53.800 to come live with you, like a god. 1:59:53.880 --> 1:59:56.840 So Charlottesville where I live, Oh, you'll get some. It's 1:59:56.880 --> 2:00:01.440 home to a large number of Afghan refugee family. It's like, 2:00:01.480 --> 2:00:04.280 I know people who work with our new Afghan neighbors 2:00:04.280 --> 2:00:06.280 and like helping them get settled in our community and 2:00:06.280 --> 2:00:09.240 helping women get driver's license and get them sewing machines 2:00:09.240 --> 2:00:11.200 so they can sew their traditional garments at home, and 2:00:11.240 --> 2:00:15.240 like it's a beautiful community effort to welcome these people 2:00:15.280 --> 2:00:17.880 into our town. But I just can't I just can't 2:00:17.920 --> 2:00:21.080 imagine the worst people on Earth coming here. 2:00:21.840 --> 2:00:24.160 Yeah, well you can help with sewing machine rent you 2:00:24.160 --> 2:00:28.440 could help us sew up a little pre pre Rainbow 2:00:28.480 --> 2:00:31.720 Nation South Africa flag for them. But yeah, it is 2:00:31.760 --> 2:00:35.160 like I've helped people arriving here on refuge visas and 2:00:35.200 --> 2:00:38.120 like it's actually a really really affirming and wonderful thing 2:00:38.160 --> 2:00:41.000 to do in your community, and like now it's a 2:00:41.040 --> 2:00:43.040 time when you can still do that. All the people 2:00:43.080 --> 2:00:48.120 who were resettled here before January, the funding that was 2:00:48.120 --> 2:00:50.120 supposed to help their kids enroll in school, that were 2:00:50.120 --> 2:00:52.800 supposed to help especially women learn to drive right, that 2:00:52.880 --> 2:00:56.000 were supposed to help people orient themselves in the US, 2:00:56.120 --> 2:01:00.000 find education, find work right. As a person who moved 2:01:00.120 --> 2:01:02.640 to America, it is a very confusing place. You have 2:01:02.760 --> 2:01:05.600 like seventy five different layers of government, none of them 2:01:05.680 --> 2:01:06.840 really want to help you. 2:01:07.560 --> 2:01:09.560 That says a lot of forms to fill in. 2:01:10.000 --> 2:01:14.480 The rent is insane, right, and then you add people 2:01:14.560 --> 2:01:16.560 drive like fucking maniacs, so. 2:01:16.480 --> 2:01:19.440 Like and we don't have healthcarerier James, I'm sure that 2:01:19.520 --> 2:01:21.520 was a culture shock for you. But like so when 2:01:21.520 --> 2:01:23.960 I was poking around in some of these Facebook groups 2:01:24.000 --> 2:01:25.680 for these for the South Africans who are sort of 2:01:26.200 --> 2:01:29.360 interested in maybe seeking this opportunity, and they were talking 2:01:29.400 --> 2:01:31.400 about sort of the pros and cons and whether they 2:01:31.400 --> 2:01:33.360 would go and how is the PROW process was going 2:01:33.400 --> 2:01:35.680 to work. And the one fear that I saw come 2:01:35.760 --> 2:01:38.320 up over and over again is like, well I heard 2:01:38.320 --> 2:01:42.680 the healthcare is pretty bad. There is, Yeah, dude, it is. 2:01:42.800 --> 2:01:44.840 Damn yeah, damn don't come. 2:01:45.840 --> 2:01:48.720 Yeah yeah in some states, right, there are state funded 2:01:48.800 --> 2:01:51.520 like safety net programs. I don't know about Virginia. 2:01:51.680 --> 2:01:54.880 And I'm sure I'm sure as as America's special and 2:01:54.960 --> 2:01:57.520 only refugees, they will be afforded access to to all 2:01:57.560 --> 2:01:58.520 available programs. 2:01:59.120 --> 2:01:59.320 Yeah. 2:01:59.400 --> 2:02:01.960 Put them on try care after we've kicked the transfolks off. 2:02:02.080 --> 2:02:03.520 That's how they're making up for the gap. 2:02:04.240 --> 2:02:05.520 Yeah, it's pretty bleak. 2:02:05.640 --> 2:02:08.640 Honestly, I would really encourage folks like give you are 2:02:08.680 --> 2:02:10.560 listening to this and thinking, oh, it fucking sucks. So 2:02:10.600 --> 2:02:14.200 those people have not been granted refugee status. I'm thinking 2:02:14.280 --> 2:02:17.640 of Like I met a woman from Zimbabwe when I 2:02:17.680 --> 2:02:20.520 was in Darian Gap who had come with her daughter. Right, 2:02:20.680 --> 2:02:24.800 she had faced persecution at home in Zimbabwe, a country 2:02:24.800 --> 2:02:26.080 that is not Rhodesia anymore. 2:02:26.240 --> 2:02:27.360 We're keeping score in. 2:02:27.320 --> 2:02:30.480 A country that was never Rhodesia. Rhodesia never existed. 2:02:30.360 --> 2:02:34.440 Yeah, right, Yeah, she went to South Africa right to 2:02:34.960 --> 2:02:38.560 attempt to be safe, and persecution followed her that. So 2:02:38.640 --> 2:02:41.440 then she took this journey all across the America's carrying 2:02:41.440 --> 2:02:44.280 her kid through through the jungles and over the mountains 2:02:44.280 --> 2:02:46.600 and through the rivers. And that's where I met them, 2:02:46.880 --> 2:02:48.680 and we've stayed in touch. 2:02:48.760 --> 2:02:48.920 Right. 2:02:48.960 --> 2:02:52.000 She's in the United States now, she's working on her 2:02:52.040 --> 2:02:56.320 asylum process, and it is expensive and it is by 2:02:56.560 --> 2:03:00.240 no means secure. And this is like a woman who 2:03:00.240 --> 2:03:04.520 has faced who fits multiple categories right in the protected 2:03:04.960 --> 2:03:08.240 they've protected categories here, right, It's going to be very 2:03:08.240 --> 2:03:10.520 hard and very expensive for her. And it really genuinely 2:03:10.880 --> 2:03:13.800 fucking breaks my heart to see someone who like would 2:03:13.840 --> 2:03:17.480 be such an asset to any community, who was such 2:03:17.520 --> 2:03:20.680 a ray of light even in some of the hardest 2:03:20.680 --> 2:03:22.960 places I've ever been. She might not get to stay 2:03:23.000 --> 2:03:28.360 here and these folks will and that really makes me sad. 2:03:28.560 --> 2:03:30.560 But yeah, if you have a chance in your community, 2:03:30.640 --> 2:03:34.960 Like almost the way I sometimes find out about refugees 2:03:35.040 --> 2:03:37.360 arriving or being settled is like on next door and 2:03:37.400 --> 2:03:39.560 realists next door is mostly a site for aging racist 2:03:40.000 --> 2:03:42.040 but like, sometimes people will be like, hey, there's an 2:03:42.040 --> 2:03:44.600 Afghan family here and they don't. Like one of the 2:03:44.640 --> 2:03:46.920 things in California is that you can rent a house 2:03:46.960 --> 2:03:49.640 and they don't have to give you a fridge. Yeah, 2:03:49.800 --> 2:03:51.720 a fridge is like a luxury, it's not it's not 2:03:51.760 --> 2:03:54.800 for the pause. So like trying to help people find 2:03:54.800 --> 2:03:58.720 a fridge before Ramadan, right, Like I have a truck, 2:03:59.400 --> 2:04:01.320 a bigger I can lift a fridge into the back 2:04:01.360 --> 2:04:03.160 of my truck. If someone has a fridge they don't want, 2:04:03.240 --> 2:04:04.720 so like, that's the thing I can do to help, 2:04:04.760 --> 2:04:06.920 and it makes me happy to do that. Then I 2:04:06.920 --> 2:04:09.840 can carry a fridge upstairs. Like that's not something you 2:04:09.840 --> 2:04:12.080 can do. There are a million other things you can do, right, 2:04:12.400 --> 2:04:15.480 including just like having people over for dinner, cooking food 2:04:15.520 --> 2:04:19.040 for them, offering to take them out on a walk 2:04:19.080 --> 2:04:22.040 and show them your neighborhood. Like there are so many 2:04:22.080 --> 2:04:24.600 ways that you can welcome people. And like, while people 2:04:24.680 --> 2:04:27.520 aren't newly arriving, there are people who are still recently 2:04:27.600 --> 2:04:30.200 arrived who really could do with some help. The government 2:04:30.240 --> 2:04:32.600 isn't paying for any more. We can't stop the government 2:04:32.640 --> 2:04:36.280 paying for flights for Africanas. But like you can do something, 2:04:37.400 --> 2:04:40.400 you can do something positive and will maybe make you 2:04:40.440 --> 2:04:43.080 feel better about the fact that you know, your taxpayer 2:04:43.120 --> 2:04:49.080 dollars are bringing the poor, downtrodden Africanas from South Africa 2:04:49.440 --> 2:04:51.280 to neighborhoods near Molly. 2:04:51.920 --> 2:04:54.440 And it's just such an ugly intersection, right, this is 2:04:54.480 --> 2:04:59.000 not just like our adult brained president falling victim to 2:04:59.120 --> 2:05:01.640 a racist conspiracy that he saw on Tucker Carlson, right, 2:05:01.720 --> 2:05:04.480 like that that's how the idea got into his mind. 2:05:04.600 --> 2:05:08.280 But I think this resurgence of his alleged interest in 2:05:08.320 --> 2:05:11.160 the plight of the white South African is this terrible 2:05:11.200 --> 2:05:16.800 intersection of personal grievance and financial interest, right that. You know, 2:05:16.840 --> 2:05:20.000 it's no coincidence that the text of the executive Order 2:05:20.560 --> 2:05:23.280 is not just about like you know, whites are being persecuted. 2:05:23.560 --> 2:05:24.360 But there is a. 2:05:24.600 --> 2:05:27.480 Hot shot on the side in the first section of 2:05:27.520 --> 2:05:30.520 the executive Order that, like well, and South Africa has 2:05:30.520 --> 2:05:34.560 been very unfair to Israel. Right that South Africa being 2:05:34.600 --> 2:05:37.680 a leading voice in the international community on the genocide 2:05:37.680 --> 2:05:41.120 in Gaza is part of this. That the inded they 2:05:41.160 --> 2:05:44.160 need to be punished for their advocacy against the genocide. 2:05:44.680 --> 2:05:48.600 When their ambassador was expelled. It was not a coincidence 2:05:48.800 --> 2:05:51.440 that he is a Muslim South African who has been 2:05:51.560 --> 2:05:53.600 very vocal about the genocide in Gaza, and that he 2:05:53.600 --> 2:05:55.720 appears in public in a kufia that he's when he 2:05:55.800 --> 2:05:58.240 was when he returned to South Africa after being expelled 2:05:58.240 --> 2:06:01.800 from the United States. He was talking about Palestine when 2:06:01.800 --> 2:06:03.760 he got home, and that's not a coincidence. And it's 2:06:03.760 --> 2:06:08.000 also not a coincidence that Elon Musk is currently fighting 2:06:08.080 --> 2:06:12.000 to launch Starlink in South Africa. Yeah, so this is 2:06:12.040 --> 2:06:14.120 sort of a longer explanation which is just sort of 2:06:14.160 --> 2:06:17.400 in brief. Since apartheid ended in nineteen ninety four, they 2:06:17.440 --> 2:06:20.920 have racial equality laws that if you have a national 2:06:21.000 --> 2:06:23.640 level company, something like starlink something you're going to provide 2:06:23.640 --> 2:06:27.600 a national telecommunications contract that serves the whole country, there 2:06:27.600 --> 2:06:29.960 has to be some black ownership of the country. They're 2:06:29.960 --> 2:06:32.320 not saying that there can be no white executives. They're 2:06:32.360 --> 2:06:34.400 not saying, you know, white people aren't allowed to do business, 2:06:34.960 --> 2:06:36.960 but there has to be some black ownership stake in 2:06:37.000 --> 2:06:41.800 the company. And large corporations around the world manage this 2:06:41.960 --> 2:06:45.760 by establishing a local subsidiary that is owned locally by 2:06:45.800 --> 2:06:49.800 a majority of black shareholders. Microsoft does it, like every 2:06:49.840 --> 2:06:53.400 big company does it. Companies operate in South Africa. International 2:06:53.440 --> 2:06:55.360 corporations operate in South Africa, and they do it every 2:06:55.440 --> 2:06:57.920 day and they do it easily. But Elon Musk refuses 2:06:57.960 --> 2:07:00.640 to do that. He refuses to have any black ownership 2:07:00.680 --> 2:07:03.360 stake in his company or a local subsidiary. So he's 2:07:03.400 --> 2:07:05.640 not allowed to have starlink there. Yeah, and so over 2:07:05.680 --> 2:07:07.760 the last couple of months, he's been, you know, walking 2:07:07.760 --> 2:07:10.280 out of meetings, he's been, you know, yelling at the 2:07:10.280 --> 2:07:13.240 President of South Africa about how he's racist against white 2:07:13.240 --> 2:07:16.280 people and so like this is personal, it's financial, and 2:07:16.320 --> 2:07:19.120 it is a racist conspiracy theory and now we're all 2:07:19.120 --> 2:07:19.720 having to live it. 2:07:19.960 --> 2:07:22.240 Yeah, it's also not a coincidence. So like Musk has 2:07:22.240 --> 2:07:25.800 started interacting with some of these like white farmer accounts 2:07:26.480 --> 2:07:27.840 on his racism ap right. 2:07:28.160 --> 2:07:28.760 I think that one. 2:07:28.840 --> 2:07:31.040 I think it's an maybe its screen name is just 2:07:31.160 --> 2:07:33.800 bore or it's oh yes, a. 2:07:33.760 --> 2:07:37.640 South African news site recently unmasked that particular individual. 2:07:37.720 --> 2:07:38.160 Oh cool. 2:07:38.280 --> 2:07:40.000 Yeah, I haven't read the article yet, Like I said, 2:07:40.000 --> 2:07:42.200 I've been on vacation, but they're they're on the case. 2:07:42.320 --> 2:07:44.400 Yeah, great, good, And I think about these. 2:07:44.480 --> 2:07:48.320 You know, white identity South African nationalist kinds of guys. 2:07:48.480 --> 2:07:52.040 Is apartheid wasn't that long ago? Yeah, thirty years ago? Right, 2:07:52.080 --> 2:07:55.960 So anybody god fifty year older who's talking a lot 2:07:56.000 --> 2:07:58.400 about white identity in South Africa, I would just like 2:07:58.440 --> 2:08:00.680 to ask you, what were you doing in nineteen ninety Yeah, 2:08:00.960 --> 2:08:02.040 just tell me who you were hanging out with the 2:08:02.120 --> 2:08:03.560 nineteen ninety because I have questions. 2:08:03.920 --> 2:08:06.360 Yeah, Like I remember the end of apartheid very like, 2:08:06.440 --> 2:08:09.880 that's one of my earlier political memories. I remember, like 2:08:09.960 --> 2:08:12.480 Nelson Mandela coming out at the Rugby World Cup in 2:08:12.560 --> 2:08:16.160 nineteen ninety five, like that being a big people like 2:08:16.320 --> 2:08:18.280 I guess maybe our listeners a lot of our listeners 2:08:18.320 --> 2:08:20.640 are younger than me. But like, South Africa was something 2:08:20.680 --> 2:08:24.040 of a pariah state under apartheid, right, Like they couldn't 2:08:24.080 --> 2:08:26.720 people wouldn't even play sports with them. They didn't even 2:08:26.760 --> 2:08:28.800 go to the IOC Olympic Games. And the IOC not 2:08:29.360 --> 2:08:33.800 an anti racist organization, an organization which famously sent the 2:08:33.840 --> 2:08:37.760 Olympic Games to add off Hitler's Germany. But yeah, they 2:08:37.760 --> 2:08:41.240 were a complete global pariah. And to have gone from 2:08:41.360 --> 2:08:44.920 that to like the US has to intervene in the 2:08:44.920 --> 2:08:47.320 plight that persecuted Africana within my lifetime. 2:08:47.360 --> 2:08:48.480 It's a pretty fucking bleak. 2:08:48.920 --> 2:08:51.640 It is a quick turnaround and an ugly one. But 2:08:52.520 --> 2:08:55.080 like I said, the average white South African who is 2:08:55.160 --> 2:08:59.200 very vocal about white rights may have a very close 2:08:59.320 --> 2:09:02.320 connection to a very recent act of terrorism, if you 2:09:02.320 --> 2:09:02.960 know what I'm saying. 2:09:03.040 --> 2:09:05.480 Yeah, yeah, they're not just talk. 2:09:05.640 --> 2:09:07.640 It was very violent in the early nineties. 2:09:08.200 --> 2:09:10.880 Yes, yeah, Molly's done some good stuff on the yeah, 2:09:11.280 --> 2:09:15.920 and on the violence of white South Africans. And I guess, yeah, 2:09:15.960 --> 2:09:19.240 what folks in the US who are inspired by them? Molly, 2:09:19.320 --> 2:09:23.200 do you have anything you want to plug? Otherwords, kuntu 2:09:23.280 --> 2:09:24.840 Wei's way, I guess is what you want to plug? 2:09:24.920 --> 2:09:27.840 Right, Yeah, I mean I'm keeping an eye on their 2:09:27.880 --> 2:09:31.320 treeson Case against Affro Forum. I think that's I mean, 2:09:31.320 --> 2:09:32.800 it's just political talk, but it's fun. 2:09:32.840 --> 2:09:33.200 We'll see. 2:09:33.240 --> 2:09:35.960 Apparently the investigation is ongoing. But no, if you are 2:09:35.960 --> 2:09:39.600 interested in more about how this happened, I did an 2:09:39.640 --> 2:09:42.760 eight part series about political violence at the end of 2:09:42.760 --> 2:09:46.120 apartheid and its connections to American neo Nazis. You can 2:09:46.200 --> 2:09:48.600 check that out on Weirdle guys, it's a good time. 2:09:48.680 --> 2:09:51.800 I think there's a really fun episode about Adulf Lunngren 2:09:51.840 --> 2:09:54.480 movie from the late eighties. It was secretly fun to 2:09:54.560 --> 2:09:57.640 my South African military intelligence. Yeah, it's a good time. 2:09:57.760 --> 2:09:59.320 And uh we live in hell. 2:10:21.640 --> 2:10:25.000 Oh my god, it's it's it could happen here. It is, 2:10:25.120 --> 2:10:29.200 and it's talking about it happening here. You know about 2:10:29.920 --> 2:10:32.960 what we're you know, what's happening in a galaxy far 2:10:33.000 --> 2:10:34.880 far away. These are the and Or episodes we're talking 2:10:34.880 --> 2:10:36.880 about episodes Jesus, what is it? 2:10:37.000 --> 2:10:38.720 Seven through nine? 2:10:38.760 --> 2:10:42.640 Seven through nine of and Or Season two, when this 2:10:42.720 --> 2:10:44.960 is done, will be three quarters of the way over with. 2:10:46.040 --> 2:10:48.560 I mean, one of the best seasons of television ever made. 2:10:48.840 --> 2:10:51.720 So you know, savor it, folks, enjoy it, and enjoy 2:10:51.800 --> 2:11:01.400 these podcasts. Yeah, eloquent Garrison, thank you, thank you, arg 2:11:01.520 --> 2:11:04.560 Me Harties raised the Hondo Anaka flag. 2:11:04.600 --> 2:11:08.640 And let's watch some and Or. This is episode three 2:11:08.760 --> 2:11:13.200 of our Star Wars and Or Politics review podcast. The 2:11:13.280 --> 2:11:16.440 person grumbling in the intro is Robert Evans. I'm Garrison Davis. 2:11:16.440 --> 2:11:20.600 We are also joined by Mia Wong. Let's start with 2:11:20.760 --> 2:11:24.840 episode seven. I think this ark on General might be 2:11:24.920 --> 2:11:27.880 my favorite arc of the whole show. Frankly, they did 2:11:27.920 --> 2:11:31.400 some really fun stuff. Oh yeah, and seven's mostly set up. 2:11:31.640 --> 2:11:35.440 This is episode seven titled Messenger. I'll do a quick 2:11:35.560 --> 2:11:37.839 overview and then we can discuss some of the setup 2:11:37.880 --> 2:11:42.840 to the Gorman massacre. So rebel militias are forming an 2:11:42.960 --> 2:11:47.280 army on the fourth moon of Yavin. Willman returns from 2:11:47.360 --> 2:11:51.360 the planet Gorman with a special mission for Cassion Loosen 2:11:51.520 --> 2:11:57.240 Once isb agent Detra Miro assassinated to protect the Axis network. 2:11:57.800 --> 2:12:00.480 The Empires failed to secure an alternative live to the 2:12:00.560 --> 2:12:04.360 Gorman mineral calkite, and ISP command tells Dedra that an 2:12:04.360 --> 2:12:06.880 Imperial fleet will be sent to Gorman in two days 2:12:07.440 --> 2:12:10.920 and to prepare for a declaration of Marshall domain. 2:12:11.640 --> 2:12:13.560 Yeah. I want to note at the start of this 2:12:13.680 --> 2:12:15.760 kind of what we see because we're watching one year 2:12:15.840 --> 2:12:18.640 jumps between these, this is the first time where it's 2:12:18.640 --> 2:12:21.720 been made really clear the rebellion has moved on from 2:12:21.960 --> 2:12:25.920 scattered insurgent groups to a functional army. Like when we're 2:12:25.960 --> 2:12:29.480 introduced to Yavin, there's a transport landing, a group of 2:12:29.640 --> 2:12:32.720 soldiers are getting off and they're being told like, okay, 2:12:32.720 --> 2:12:35.040 your ration cards are here. And like you need to 2:12:35.080 --> 2:12:37.160 report in here and here, this is where you're billeted. 2:12:37.560 --> 2:12:42.040 It's very like standard professional military stuff. So we are 2:12:42.080 --> 2:12:45.360 now at the point where the rebellion that Andor has 2:12:45.400 --> 2:12:49.920 been portraying previously is not around anymore. The rebellion has 2:12:49.960 --> 2:12:53.040 moved on largely, and those old networks still exist to 2:12:53.080 --> 2:12:55.919 some extent, but that is not the heart of it anymore. 2:12:56.720 --> 2:12:58.600 Yeah, and that's a big part of what this episode 2:12:58.640 --> 2:13:02.040 is starting to set up now on Gorman. Imperial presence 2:13:02.040 --> 2:13:05.440 on the planet has already increased dramatically in the past year. 2:13:05.960 --> 2:13:08.640 A new imperial headquarters the towers above the capital city 2:13:08.640 --> 2:13:11.840 of Palmo. Security forces are stationed throughout the city with 2:13:11.960 --> 2:13:16.160 checkpoints and a mandatory curfew. The past few weeks, there's 2:13:16.200 --> 2:13:20.240 been stories of insurgent attacks against the Empire, most recently 2:13:20.280 --> 2:13:24.240 the bombing of a naval depot. Imperial News reports that 2:13:24.440 --> 2:13:27.000 quote unquote inexplicable Gorman. 2:13:26.800 --> 2:13:29.720 Terrorists their hate for imperial norms. 2:13:30.320 --> 2:13:35.000 Are getting help from quote unquote outside agitators. 2:13:34.200 --> 2:13:38.040 Which is not untrue actually for once, but also not 2:13:38.200 --> 2:13:40.880 like the core of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, well, and 2:13:40.960 --> 2:13:43.000 I think that that's part of the part of the 2:13:43.040 --> 2:13:46.200 point right like that. That's part of what Luthen's going 2:13:46.280 --> 2:13:50.520 for is he wants to keep them sort of obsessed 2:13:50.560 --> 2:13:54.360 with this side of things, in part because Luthan knows 2:13:54.440 --> 2:13:57.440 that it's moved on, right, Like, Luthen knows that the 2:13:57.480 --> 2:14:00.520 rebellion is in Yavin. Now you know he is. He's 2:14:00.560 --> 2:14:03.520 not entirely a side show, but he's no longer the 2:14:03.600 --> 2:14:07.040 heart of it. And yeah, every resource they waste looking 2:14:07.120 --> 2:14:09.720 at his network is a time they're not spent looking 2:14:09.760 --> 2:14:10.320 at Yavin. 2:14:10.720 --> 2:14:12.320 Yeah, and Luthan's still trying. 2:14:12.320 --> 2:14:14.400 I mean, like the outside agitators here is probably mostly 2:14:14.480 --> 2:14:17.080 like Luthen's guys who've been trying to build up the 2:14:17.200 --> 2:14:21.120 insurgency on Gorman simply to make some sort of political 2:14:21.120 --> 2:14:23.840 crisis and then you know, also help the people who 2:14:23.840 --> 2:14:27.440 have already committed to resisting the empire, help them actually 2:14:27.480 --> 2:14:31.160 like do that beyond what the Gorman Front's been like 2:14:31.280 --> 2:14:33.960 parading around and doing you know, little little protests in 2:14:33.960 --> 2:14:37.440 front of the memorial for the past few years. Luthen 2:14:37.520 --> 2:14:39.160 was like, if these guys want to do this seriously, 2:14:39.240 --> 2:14:41.320 let's let's see what happens when we do it seriously. 2:14:41.680 --> 2:14:44.800 And that's kind of what we've resulted to here. The 2:14:44.800 --> 2:14:48.560 Empire has sent a quote unquote crisis specialist and a 2:14:48.680 --> 2:14:53.560 riot team to assist de Dra in managing any civil unrest. 2:14:54.560 --> 2:14:58.960 Cyril Karn starts questioning what the Empire wants with Gorman 2:14:58.960 --> 2:15:03.280 and what he's really been doing Wing these past two years. Yeah, 2:15:03.400 --> 2:15:06.400 Dedra tells him to pack his things, as they'll soon 2:15:06.600 --> 2:15:11.360 be leaving together for Corroussant. Back on Yavin four, Bicks 2:15:11.480 --> 2:15:15.080 takes a skeptical Cassian to a Force healer to help 2:15:15.120 --> 2:15:19.840 with a stubborn blaster burn. Though Cassian resists, the healer 2:15:20.000 --> 2:15:23.920 can sense that Cassian is somehow important. He has main 2:15:23.960 --> 2:15:28.640 character energy. Cassian is split between Luthen and the growing 2:15:28.880 --> 2:15:32.000 organized rebellion Yeah, but decides to take a rebel U 2:15:32.040 --> 2:15:36.680 Wing Starfighter to Gorman and undercover as a journalist. Cassian 2:15:36.800 --> 2:15:40.320 checks into the hotel at Palmo Square and sets his 2:15:40.440 --> 2:15:43.160 sights on ISB Agent Dedra. 2:15:43.680 --> 2:15:44.000 M H. 2:15:44.880 --> 2:15:48.000 So, Yeah, a lot of this episode is like showing 2:15:48.040 --> 2:15:51.360 how the rebels are actually like growing an army before 2:15:51.400 --> 2:15:55.120 they've really put together the formal rebel alliance, like they're 2:15:55.200 --> 2:15:57.960 they're they're getting so much closer to that. But at 2:15:57.960 --> 2:15:59.720 this point it's it's like a whole bunch of little 2:15:59.760 --> 2:16:02.920 like militias that are operating over the same base and 2:16:02.920 --> 2:16:05.160 are starting to set up like rules and guidelines, and 2:16:05.200 --> 2:16:07.480 like Cassie and butts up against some of those rules 2:16:07.520 --> 2:16:08.400 a little bit here. 2:16:08.320 --> 2:16:11.120 Because he can't go and come as he pleases anymore, right, 2:16:11.200 --> 2:16:13.480 Like it gets him in trouble with General Draven. 2:16:13.720 --> 2:16:16.640 Yeah, it's not just rebel cells that are operating independently. 2:16:17.080 --> 2:16:19.520 Now they are trying out working together and that has 2:16:19.600 --> 2:16:20.560 some growing pains. 2:16:20.640 --> 2:16:21.200 Yeah. 2:16:21.280 --> 2:16:23.240 Well, and it's not just working together too, like, it's 2:16:23.280 --> 2:16:27.400 it's the command structure totally. Structure is becoming increasingly centralized 2:16:27.400 --> 2:16:29.680 in a way that it hasn't been. Well, it's the 2:16:30.600 --> 2:16:32.800 previous to this has been like the centralizing thing has 2:16:32.840 --> 2:16:35.400 been like Luthen kind of being an asshole to everyone 2:16:35.440 --> 2:16:36.600 but like moving stuff between them. 2:16:36.600 --> 2:16:37.360 And now it's like. 2:16:37.440 --> 2:16:39.640 Or Sagarera, right where where he operates as like a 2:16:39.640 --> 2:16:41.800 cult of personality type thing with his own militia. 2:16:41.879 --> 2:16:45.160 Yeah yeah, right, well, but i mean like between all 2:16:45.200 --> 2:16:49.200 of the different networks. Yeah, and now it's like, no, 2:16:49.280 --> 2:16:51.320 we have this place where we're developing a chain of 2:16:51.360 --> 2:16:53.440 command and we're developing these sort of like totally we're 2:16:53.480 --> 2:16:56.200 going to become increasingly rigid like hierarchies in this In 2:16:56.200 --> 2:16:56.959 this whole thing. 2:16:56.879 --> 2:16:59.960 Luthen's becoming a somewhat controversial figure and is kind of 2:17:00.240 --> 2:17:04.800 getting pushed out of the actual organized rebellion because he's 2:17:04.840 --> 2:17:06.120 a little bit difficult to work with. 2:17:07.600 --> 2:17:12.680 Yeah, because he's an asshole. Like that's like, yeah, and well, 2:17:13.000 --> 2:17:15.320 he's he's doing what he has to do. I mean, 2:17:15.520 --> 2:17:18.880 I'm Luthen's last defender. If he's only got one fan, 2:17:19.000 --> 2:17:23.240 it's me. And Luthen is doing is handling this exactly 2:17:23.280 --> 2:17:26.480 how he has to. There's no room to be nice 2:17:27.120 --> 2:17:30.840 and there's no room for anybody's feelings in this. But that, 2:17:31.480 --> 2:17:34.520 you know, what we do see is people choosing now, 2:17:34.760 --> 2:17:37.520 I want to be involved in this kind of bigger 2:17:37.560 --> 2:17:41.240 and more structured thing where the way I am treated 2:17:41.400 --> 2:17:43.880 is less dependent upon the whims of this guy at 2:17:43.879 --> 2:17:45.760 the spoke, where I don't get to know anything, where 2:17:45.760 --> 2:17:48.640 there is a command structure, where there is there is 2:17:48.640 --> 2:17:51.720 a degree to which it's more like predictable how things 2:17:51.760 --> 2:17:53.640 will be day to day. Right, A lot of people 2:17:53.720 --> 2:17:56.840 do prefer that. Yeah, And also this at this stage 2:17:56.879 --> 2:17:59.400 of the rebellion. If you're going to take on a 2:17:59.480 --> 2:18:04.720 military like this, you need a formalized force. You need 2:18:04.920 --> 2:18:08.400 more of a command structure, You need a chain of command, 2:18:08.440 --> 2:18:10.640 and people need to know who is calling shots in 2:18:10.720 --> 2:18:14.600 what situations because you you simply can't function effectively in 2:18:14.680 --> 2:18:16.520 a large scale in combat without it. 2:18:16.879 --> 2:18:19.640 Yeah, well, well we'll talk more about kind of Luthen's 2:18:19.680 --> 2:18:24.000 situation in episode nine, you know, the Luthen of it all, Yeah, 2:18:24.040 --> 2:18:25.800 because that kind of gets more into like what his 2:18:25.800 --> 2:18:27.800 current place is in the rebellion. But like really like 2:18:27.840 --> 2:18:31.840 the role that he occupied is is frankly no longer needed, 2:18:31.879 --> 2:18:34.000 like like and he's even acknowledging this, Like they're they're 2:18:34.040 --> 2:18:36.520 they're going beyond the sort of like you know, like 2:18:36.640 --> 2:18:40.200 small scale like intel network, arms deals, like all this 2:18:40.280 --> 2:18:43.920 type of like like covert you know, the El Dawni raid. 2:18:44.320 --> 2:18:47.480 They're growing beyond what Luthen really specialized in. And and 2:18:47.480 --> 2:18:49.800 now they're doing a full on military and and Luthen's 2:18:49.800 --> 2:18:52.840 always been operating kind of like a DIY like spy agency, 2:18:53.520 --> 2:18:55.640 and and now they're they're they're they're doing a whole 2:18:55.680 --> 2:18:59.039 military and and that kind of butts up against how 2:18:59.080 --> 2:19:03.320 Luthen like to operate and like what he's like frankly 2:19:03.360 --> 2:19:06.360 just capable of doing. Like he he understands the importance 2:19:06.360 --> 2:19:09.880 of YABN, but he's also okay with not being there 2:19:09.879 --> 2:19:10.400 in person. 2:19:10.840 --> 2:19:14.960 Well I don't think he thinks he fits there, right, Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah, 2:19:15.000 --> 2:19:19.160 Like his whole thing is such a an idiosyncratic organization 2:19:19.440 --> 2:19:22.320 that's that's just based around him and Claya, you know, 2:19:22.400 --> 2:19:24.640 this this young woman that he works with. Like there's 2:19:24.640 --> 2:19:27.480 no place for him in a military command structure. That's 2:19:27.520 --> 2:19:28.160 not his thing. 2:19:29.200 --> 2:19:32.720 The other thing this episode really focuses on is like 2:19:33.200 --> 2:19:36.000 you know, news propaganda and like the idea of like 2:19:36.080 --> 2:19:40.640 like terrorism outside agitators and using those things as justifications 2:19:40.680 --> 2:19:45.160 for state crackdowns. The senator from Gorman talks with mon 2:19:45.200 --> 2:19:47.760 Mathma about about how he believes that like the Empire 2:19:47.840 --> 2:19:51.040 is lying about what's happening on Gorman and these bombings 2:19:51.120 --> 2:19:53.560 must be like a false flag attack. So you got 2:19:53.600 --> 2:19:55.400 to see a whole bunch of different people's perspectives and 2:19:55.480 --> 2:19:58.600 like validity of the actions that are happening on Gorman. 2:19:58.720 --> 2:20:01.080 Like there's there's questions over like who's doing this. Is 2:20:01.080 --> 2:20:02.920 the state just making these things up so that they 2:20:02.920 --> 2:20:04.520 have a justification to crack down on us. 2:20:04.760 --> 2:20:05.760 Are these things. 2:20:05.760 --> 2:20:08.440 Genuine or are they Are they being done by by 2:20:08.520 --> 2:20:11.560 people on Gorman who are like aligned with the resistance 2:20:11.840 --> 2:20:14.280 but maybe are getting like outside help. You have all 2:20:14.600 --> 2:20:17.280 those sorts of questions, and then the news media is 2:20:17.280 --> 2:20:20.800 like manufacturing consent for an imperial crackdown, like what was 2:20:20.800 --> 2:20:23.640 discussed in like the very first episode. 2:20:23.760 --> 2:20:27.120 It's very it's very seventies Italy, like because there's these 2:20:27.160 --> 2:20:29.119 bombings happening, because there's all this weird shit, and because 2:20:29.120 --> 2:20:33.320 nobody knows exactly who's doing what, everyone is like kind 2:20:33.400 --> 2:20:37.360 of become conspiracy brained and like half the conspiracies are true, 2:20:37.360 --> 2:20:38.920 but not only the ones people think are the ones 2:20:38.920 --> 2:20:41.240 that are true. And it's it's just like the information 2:20:41.280 --> 2:20:44.000 space has become so messy when you're dealing with such 2:20:44.040 --> 2:20:46.200 a combination of like of like of these attacks and 2:20:46.240 --> 2:20:49.640 of these like different kinds of above and below ground 2:20:49.760 --> 2:20:52.440 organizations where nobody knows exactly, no one's exactly talking to 2:20:52.480 --> 2:20:55.360 each other, and yeah, it just gets so messy so quickly. 2:20:55.440 --> 2:20:58.040 Even the Gorman front itself is like debating this, like 2:20:58.080 --> 2:21:00.880 they had this whole meeting where they discussed like tactics, 2:21:00.959 --> 2:21:03.560 like the role of the role of violence, and like 2:21:03.680 --> 2:21:06.920 as these big arguments erupt, they start to reflect on 2:21:06.959 --> 2:21:09.400 how the empire is actually set them up for infighting, 2:21:09.640 --> 2:21:13.040 and the most time they spend doing this, the less 2:21:13.040 --> 2:21:16.640 time they're actually doing anything helpful on Gorman or like 2:21:16.760 --> 2:21:20.000 doing anything that actually can secure their own like liberation 2:21:20.120 --> 2:21:23.040 or their own like you know, combat against the suppressive force. 2:21:23.400 --> 2:21:26.119 There's a good part in that scene where they're debating 2:21:26.120 --> 2:21:29.160 it where the guy who gets who kind of stumbles 2:21:29.200 --> 2:21:33.400 upon them doing the robbery. Yeah in the last like yeah, yeah, yeah. 2:21:33.840 --> 2:21:36.400 It has a speech where he's basically like, look, man, 2:21:36.680 --> 2:21:39.600 everyone's like whatever they're doing, whatever their attitude about the 2:21:39.640 --> 2:21:42.160 right way to resist, they're all Gormans to me, and 2:21:42.200 --> 2:21:44.880 so they're all on my side. Yeah, right, And I 2:21:45.280 --> 2:21:48.320 like the way that he that he expressed that because 2:21:48.320 --> 2:21:50.400 it very much as we're going to talk about next episode. 2:21:50.720 --> 2:21:54.480 It comports with who that guy is as a as 2:21:54.520 --> 2:21:55.480 a resistor. Right. 2:21:55.640 --> 2:21:59.199 There's like national identity is a big concept in these episodes, 2:21:59.440 --> 2:22:02.600 but not in like a fascistic nationalist sense. 2:22:03.160 --> 2:22:05.360 No, is in we're all in this, We're all going 2:22:05.400 --> 2:22:07.840 to hang together, is what I think he's saying. 2:22:08.240 --> 2:22:11.880 But like like national solidarity. Yeah yeah, it's like eighteen 2:22:11.959 --> 2:22:15.480 twenties kind of like or even like Ireland, right, like 2:22:16.000 --> 2:22:18.200 yeah yeah, And like you know, I can give a 2:22:18.240 --> 2:22:20.080 speech here about where this is going in about how 2:22:20.120 --> 2:22:22.240 shin Fame's like Turny gets imbigers and trans people, but 2:22:22.240 --> 2:22:23.800 it's also like that's just like that what's happening right now. 2:22:23.800 --> 2:22:26.480 This is like eighteen twenty, not like nineteen twenty. 2:22:26.920 --> 2:22:28.280 The last thing I want to talk about in this 2:22:28.440 --> 2:22:32.680 arc before we go on break is this Force healer 2:22:33.080 --> 2:22:37.560 that Cassiean reluctantly visits in the Yavin for mess Hall. 2:22:37.959 --> 2:22:38.279 Yeah. 2:22:38.320 --> 2:22:40.000 This was a super interesting scene to me, and this 2:22:40.160 --> 2:22:41.359 is the first. 2:22:41.240 --> 2:22:45.440 Time we have seen any mention of the Force really. Yeah. 2:22:45.440 --> 2:22:48.920 This is like the big like spiritual moment in this series, 2:22:49.440 --> 2:22:51.080 and or has kind of veered away from like the 2:22:51.120 --> 2:22:53.160 mystical side of Star Wars in favor of the more 2:22:53.200 --> 2:22:59.440 like materialist politics the Star Wars that they concluded this here, 2:22:59.640 --> 2:23:02.600 I thought was really interesting and really well done. And 2:23:02.840 --> 2:23:04.959 the reason why I like it so much is that, 2:23:05.040 --> 2:23:09.480 like throughout the Rebel Alliance, they always like agreet each 2:23:09.520 --> 2:23:12.400 other and like say, goodbye by saying may the Force 2:23:12.440 --> 2:23:14.280 be with you, which is a little bit odd because 2:23:14.320 --> 2:23:18.240 the Rebel Alliance isn't like a Jedi revivalist cult. They're 2:23:18.280 --> 2:23:20.120 not like a Force cult in the way that so 2:23:20.120 --> 2:23:22.760 many other groups and you know, Star Wars TM are, 2:23:23.400 --> 2:23:27.080 And the fact that you have people who engage with 2:23:27.120 --> 2:23:30.360 the Force in it's more like regular manner, more similar 2:23:30.440 --> 2:23:34.199 to like kind of like hippie woo spiritualist stuff that 2:23:34.200 --> 2:23:37.680 that props up in like radical spaces I find really interesting. 2:23:38.320 --> 2:23:40.640 And obviously in Star Wars that has more of like 2:23:40.640 --> 2:23:43.320 a legitimate backing because we all recognize the forces real. 2:23:43.360 --> 2:23:44.959 In Star Wars, the Force. 2:23:44.760 --> 2:23:45.720 Is fake, it's a psio. 2:23:45.920 --> 2:23:48.840 It's just the alien god thing in the black Holes. 2:23:50.240 --> 2:23:53.520 For in part what I love that and er is 2:23:53.520 --> 2:23:57.720 how big it makes the universe seem because Cassi Cassian 2:23:57.800 --> 2:24:00.040 isn't like he doesn't have like the you know, the 2:24:00.040 --> 2:24:02.840 There's that line in the in a New Hope where 2:24:02.879 --> 2:24:05.879 basically Han's like, I don't know, like Han's clearly heard 2:24:05.879 --> 2:24:08.040 of the Jedi, but he's like, I don't need like 2:24:08.080 --> 2:24:09.480 I don't give a shit about this. 2:24:09.560 --> 2:24:11.920 I don't need hokey religions or special efforts. 2:24:12.160 --> 2:24:14.920 It's like somebody talking about yeah, like like Wicca, right, 2:24:15.080 --> 2:24:17.760 Like if you're just like a dude who's a fucking 2:24:17.840 --> 2:24:19.920 drug dealer, You're like, I don't need to hear about that, man, 2:24:19.959 --> 2:24:24.160 I got I got fucking heroin to move, Like, yeah, 2:24:24.360 --> 2:24:26.560 it's very it's very much like it's it's very much 2:24:26.680 --> 2:24:27.840 like faith Healer coded. 2:24:27.879 --> 2:24:30.000 It's like, oh god, no, I'm not gonna see the 2:24:30.080 --> 2:24:31.920 faith healer come on, Like. 2:24:32.080 --> 2:24:34.400 No, yeah, And and he talks about how him and 2:24:34.440 --> 2:24:37.240 his like his mom had like a bad experience with 2:24:37.280 --> 2:24:39.920 a horse a force healer like ten years ago, and 2:24:39.959 --> 2:24:41.840 you're like, this is this is a whole like scam 2:24:41.879 --> 2:24:42.680 operation as well. 2:24:42.760 --> 2:24:44.160 Yeah, like fake force healers. 2:24:44.600 --> 2:24:46.640 And beyond that, the thing that's unset is what we 2:24:46.680 --> 2:24:48.320 know about Cassie and is he was raised on the 2:24:48.320 --> 2:24:50.600 planet completely cut off from the rest of the galaxy. 2:24:50.680 --> 2:24:53.600 His childhood was as a hunter gatherer in the deep jungle, 2:24:54.160 --> 2:24:57.680 and he was, presumably as all people's in that situation 2:24:58.160 --> 2:25:01.520 always have, raised with a set of beliefs about the 2:25:01.640 --> 2:25:05.560 universe and spirituality that were completely shattered when his entire 2:25:05.600 --> 2:25:08.080 planet was annihilated by the Empire. Right was it by 2:25:08.120 --> 2:25:11.600 the Republic. Well it was, it was in that transition, the. 2:25:11.560 --> 2:25:13.960 Fuzzy period between the Republic and the Empire. 2:25:14.040 --> 2:25:18.560 Yet yes, but of course he doesn't believe in anything, right, 2:25:18.640 --> 2:25:21.879 Like he had some sort of set of beliefs and 2:25:22.000 --> 2:25:25.960 the entire cosmology of his planet was annihilated, Like why 2:25:26.000 --> 2:25:27.280 would he believe in anything? 2:25:27.879 --> 2:25:29.680 I just like what this does for like the Alliance itself, 2:25:29.720 --> 2:25:31.360 and it shows that the Force is like a regular 2:25:31.400 --> 2:25:33.880 part of these people's lives. And like specifically the way 2:25:33.920 --> 2:25:37.480 the Force Healer talks is more about like the Force 2:25:37.560 --> 2:25:39.720 as this as this like operator of. 2:25:39.680 --> 2:25:40.640 Like fate and destiny. 2:25:41.240 --> 2:25:43.480 And it can sense that Cassian Andor is the main 2:25:43.560 --> 2:25:45.960 character in Rogue Wan a Star Wars story, and is 2:25:46.000 --> 2:25:49.200 important for the story of Star Wars, and she can 2:25:49.240 --> 2:25:52.720 feel that this is important, and so condicts and and 2:25:53.000 --> 2:25:55.200 Or is also freaked out by that like feeling. And 2:25:55.560 --> 2:25:58.000 I do like that version of the Force a lot. 2:25:58.040 --> 2:25:59.920 I think that's a much more interesting way to do it. 2:26:00.240 --> 2:26:02.959 And just like you know, force cults in like a 2:26:03.000 --> 2:26:05.840 forever religious war with each other for thousands of years. 2:26:05.920 --> 2:26:08.199 Yeah, if you if, if you pay us an unbelievably 2:26:08.240 --> 2:26:10.000 large amount of money, Garrison and I will have our 2:26:10.040 --> 2:26:12.480 six hour argument we have every time about the Force 2:26:12.840 --> 2:26:13.360 Star Wars. 2:26:13.400 --> 2:26:15.400 Well, I do also. 2:26:15.320 --> 2:26:19.160 Like that it's not one hundred percent clear that this 2:26:19.200 --> 2:26:20.600 person is even force sensitive. 2:26:20.680 --> 2:26:22.760 She can like feel through the force, but like everyone 2:26:22.800 --> 2:26:24.120 can with some degree of training. 2:26:24.720 --> 2:26:26.879 Yeah, but but it's well, but it's it's it's also 2:26:26.959 --> 2:26:27.280 like not. 2:26:27.400 --> 2:26:30.280 Clear that it's like like she's just a girl. 2:26:30.440 --> 2:26:32.080 She's yeah, yeah, but it's like it's it's not a 2:26:32.640 --> 2:26:34.400 his back seems to feel better. 2:26:34.800 --> 2:26:37.119 Yeah, no, yeah, totally yeah. But but but but also 2:26:37.200 --> 2:26:39.600 like that's the thing, like it's it's not it's not 2:26:39.760 --> 2:26:43.400 like a thing like Okay, this is like a Jedi, right, 2:26:43.520 --> 2:26:45.560 they're using the Force, and you could tell using the Force. 2:26:45.680 --> 2:26:48.360 This is a lot more kind of like nebulous, and 2:26:48.400 --> 2:26:50.760 it's not one hundred percent clear if it's happening or 2:26:50.800 --> 2:26:53.160 if it's everyone is like I think just thinks that 2:26:53.240 --> 2:26:56.400 it's happening or like what's you know, it's it's very no. 2:26:56.840 --> 2:26:59.039 Yeah, that's why I like it, Like, yeah, it's not 2:26:59.080 --> 2:27:02.160 a Jedi, it's just it's just someone and everyone in 2:27:02.200 --> 2:27:04.800 this universe can have a connection with the Force, because 2:27:04.840 --> 2:27:07.240 that's how this universe works, and some people don't want 2:27:07.280 --> 2:27:09.360 to or think it's fake, and other people get really 2:27:09.360 --> 2:27:11.560 into it. So people get way too into it, and 2:27:11.920 --> 2:27:14.039 then they do genocides in the name of the of 2:27:14.080 --> 2:27:16.360 their religious order. But for a lot of people like this, 2:27:16.400 --> 2:27:18.440 who aren't like a Jedi or aren't like a Sith 2:27:18.560 --> 2:27:21.520 or you know, a whatever, a guardian of the wills, God, 2:27:22.480 --> 2:27:24.760 it's just a thing you can like connect with and 2:27:24.800 --> 2:27:27.120 you can like feel your way through like fate and destiny. 2:27:27.400 --> 2:27:30.800 Well, and I really like that. They must have there 2:27:30.879 --> 2:27:33.240 must have been a discussion, should we have her say 2:27:33.280 --> 2:27:35.560 she used to be like a Paddawan, right who somehow 2:27:35.680 --> 2:27:37.199 escaped Order sixty six. 2:27:37.480 --> 2:27:39.240 That must have been God, she's not. 2:27:39.400 --> 2:27:40.440 Thank God, they just didn't. 2:27:40.560 --> 2:27:42.480 We don't know what she don't care, need to does 2:27:42.720 --> 2:27:45.959 matter because no one in the situation would give a shit. Yeah, 2:27:46.360 --> 2:27:49.120 Cassian's not gonna be like, so, yeah, tell me about 2:27:49.160 --> 2:27:51.160 like your fucking bad He doesn't give He doesn't give 2:27:51.160 --> 2:27:51.560 a fuck. 2:27:51.600 --> 2:27:53.200 There's so much else going on in his head at 2:27:53.240 --> 2:27:53.560 that moment. 2:27:53.840 --> 2:27:55.960 So much better that she's just a random person and 2:27:55.959 --> 2:27:56.560 we never know. 2:27:56.959 --> 2:27:57.640 We never know. 2:27:58.160 --> 2:27:59.879 All right, Let's go and break and come back to 2:27:59.840 --> 2:28:14.680 talk about the Gorman massacre. Yay, okay, we are back 2:28:15.240 --> 2:28:17.960 and or season two episode eight, Who are you? 2:28:18.360 --> 2:28:21.640 Yeah? Oh I just I will talk a lot about 2:28:21.640 --> 2:28:24.240 the name of this episode. Oh yeah, baby, because I 2:28:24.640 --> 2:28:27.200 love it, because it's it's just some of the best 2:28:27.240 --> 2:28:30.199 writing that this show or any show has ever had. 2:28:30.360 --> 2:28:33.240 Yeah yeah, please go ahead and give us the over there. 2:28:33.680 --> 2:28:34.840 Let's do a quick run down. 2:28:34.920 --> 2:28:36.080 Yeah yeah yeah. 2:28:36.120 --> 2:28:41.280 As mining equipment lands across Gorman, troops barricade the Imperial 2:28:41.360 --> 2:28:45.160 headquarters in Palmo Square as they prepare for a mass protest. 2:28:45.720 --> 2:28:49.439 The Gorman Front prepares to retake the town square, distributing 2:28:49.480 --> 2:28:53.240 weapons and rallying just regular Gorman citizens to march on 2:28:53.560 --> 2:28:57.120 the town center. The old leader of the Front realizes 2:28:57.240 --> 2:29:01.199 too late that this protest is probably an Imperial trap 2:29:01.480 --> 2:29:05.920 and is powerless to stop this unfolding spectacle. He encounters 2:29:05.800 --> 2:29:08.560 a Cyril Kern on his way to the Imperial HQ 2:29:09.000 --> 2:29:12.400 and confronts Cyril about misleading the Gorman resistance and why 2:29:12.440 --> 2:29:14.359 the Empire is mining on Gorman. 2:29:14.520 --> 2:29:17.160 Oh, and this scene is the guy who plays Ryot. 2:29:17.160 --> 2:29:19.200 There's so many great monologues in this The dude who 2:29:19.240 --> 2:29:22.200 plays Rylands, who is the old rich guy who's kind 2:29:22.240 --> 2:29:25.720 of the organizing center of the Gorman Front. 2:29:25.520 --> 2:29:26.240 The original one. 2:29:26.320 --> 2:29:30.520 Yeah, has a beautiful speech here where he's just how 2:29:30.560 --> 2:29:31.720 can you say these things? 2:29:31.760 --> 2:29:33.039 What kind of being are you? 2:29:33.240 --> 2:29:40.560 What kind of being are you? Yeah, it's excellent, it's perfect, 2:29:40.600 --> 2:29:42.600 it's devastating. Yeah. 2:29:42.840 --> 2:29:45.480 Cyril breaks free and makes his way through the chanting 2:29:45.600 --> 2:29:47.199 crowd that's filled in a square. 2:29:47.440 --> 2:29:47.840 Yeah. 2:29:47.879 --> 2:29:51.120 After arriving at the barricaded Imperial Tower, Cyril sneaks into 2:29:51.120 --> 2:29:54.320 Dedra's office to demand to know what the Empire wants 2:29:54.360 --> 2:29:58.200 on Gorman. He chokes Dedra as she confesses that this 2:29:58.240 --> 2:30:01.920 has all been for the Emperor's new energy program, and 2:30:02.000 --> 2:30:06.600 she promises that they will soon return to Corussant as heroes. 2:30:06.959 --> 2:30:09.879 We'll get everything we want. The Empire will reward us 2:30:09.879 --> 2:30:12.360 for our loyalty. This is this is it. This is 2:30:12.440 --> 2:30:14.440 the last fucked up thing we have to do, and 2:30:14.480 --> 2:30:16.800 then we can live happily ever after. Yeah, didn't you 2:30:16.840 --> 2:30:17.640 want this promotion? 2:30:18.000 --> 2:30:18.640 Yeah? Yeah. 2:30:18.680 --> 2:30:21.560 She says that this might be the previous episode or 2:30:21.720 --> 2:30:23.600 this one, but like when Zero like kind of like 2:30:23.640 --> 2:30:27.160 protests that just like, yeah, but you weren't complaining when 2:30:27.200 --> 2:30:30.760 you got promoted into this into this job. But Zero 2:30:30.879 --> 2:30:33.879 wishes Dedra good luck and he leaves to join the 2:30:33.959 --> 2:30:37.800 crowd outside Cassie and is stationed on the outskirts of 2:30:37.840 --> 2:30:39.520 the crowd, trying to line up a shot to take 2:30:39.560 --> 2:30:44.119 out Dedra. But stormtroopers soon kettle the crowd and Imperial 2:30:44.240 --> 2:30:47.240 riot cops are sent into the square to jumpstart a 2:30:47.280 --> 2:30:51.160 flash point. Protesters throw rocks and bottles, but it's an 2:30:51.200 --> 2:30:54.160 Imperial sniper who is ordered to shoot their own riot 2:30:54.160 --> 2:30:57.320 cops that starts the Gorman massacre. 2:30:57.160 --> 2:30:59.720 And they make a beautiful point. The kettling is done 2:30:59.720 --> 2:31:02.400 by stormtroopers who are the elite, right, These are their 2:31:02.520 --> 2:31:07.439 very best infantry, the riot cops. From the moment they're introduced, 2:31:07.440 --> 2:31:10.000 because we see these guys land with their kit bags, 2:31:10.400 --> 2:31:13.920 their sergeant clearly has a lot more experience and is like, 2:31:13.959 --> 2:31:15.840 these guys don't know what the fuck they're doing. We 2:31:15.959 --> 2:31:18.640 cannot put them in any kind of dangerous they have 2:31:19.680 --> 2:31:22.480 and that's the point. That's why they're there. These men 2:31:22.520 --> 2:31:25.040 were hand picked to be the worst of the Empire. 2:31:25.360 --> 2:31:27.959 Here's they're expendable, right, and because you can count on 2:31:28.000 --> 2:31:29.720 them to panic and that's what's needed. 2:31:29.800 --> 2:31:34.320 They're cannon fodders. Yeah, they're sacrificial lambs. Yeah, now, Sir 2:31:34.560 --> 2:31:37.880 Cyril watches the chaos unfold as the Gorman Front tries 2:31:37.879 --> 2:31:42.039 to defend against the Imperial Slaughter and Chax security droids 2:31:42.040 --> 2:31:46.040 are sent into the town square, but when Cyril sees Cassian, 2:31:46.760 --> 2:31:49.520 he suddenly lunges at him and the two get into 2:31:49.520 --> 2:31:50.480 a brutal brawl. 2:31:51.000 --> 2:31:51.720 Cyril gets the. 2:31:51.760 --> 2:31:55.920 Upper hand, but is shocked when Cassian does not remember 2:31:56.040 --> 2:32:00.560 who he is. While frozen, pointing his blaster at Cassian, 2:32:01.000 --> 2:32:03.959 Cyril gets shot dead by the old leader of the 2:32:03.959 --> 2:32:04.800 Gorman Front. 2:32:05.000 --> 2:32:09.920 There's Rylan's It's an incredible moment. Yeah. 2:32:10.040 --> 2:32:12.879 While trying to exfiltrate Cassian meets up with Willem, who 2:32:12.879 --> 2:32:15.520 decides to stay and help the resistance. In the aftermath 2:32:15.560 --> 2:32:18.960 of the massacre, the Gorman Front broadcasts the final message 2:32:18.959 --> 2:32:22.320 about the Imperial siege, claiming there are thousands dead in 2:32:22.360 --> 2:32:26.360 the streets. Cyril's mother is in tears watching news reports 2:32:26.360 --> 2:32:29.720 coming out of Gorman that frame the Imperial troopers killed 2:32:29.800 --> 2:32:31.039 as fallen heroes. 2:32:31.680 --> 2:32:32.920 Yeah, oh boy, what. 2:32:32.920 --> 2:32:37.439 An episode, maybe the best episode in the series. Just phenomenal. 2:32:38.120 --> 2:32:40.760 It's phenomenal. I'll give you that. I don't know whish 2:32:40.800 --> 2:32:43.400 I'd pick us the best, but it's tough. It's tough. 2:32:43.600 --> 2:32:45.440 It's the prison break one still, because a break one's 2:32:45.520 --> 2:32:45.840 very good. 2:32:46.160 --> 2:32:48.080 I'm gonna go on a little rant about the name 2:32:48.120 --> 2:32:51.920 of this episode, who Are You, because that moment between 2:32:52.200 --> 2:32:56.480 Cassian and Cyril, is one that Tony Gilroy ha said 2:32:56.480 --> 2:32:59.000 interviews he had to fight for everyone was like just 2:32:59.040 --> 2:33:01.400 crazy and Diego Luna said it was one of the 2:33:01.440 --> 2:33:04.360 hardest lines for me to deliver because Luna likes the 2:33:04.400 --> 2:33:07.000 show and is a fan of the character Cyril and 2:33:07.040 --> 2:33:09.760 his acting, and he knows every and it has the 2:33:09.800 --> 2:33:11.959 degree of sympathy that you almost have to have for 2:33:12.040 --> 2:33:14.560 Cyril at this point totally, and so it was such 2:33:14.600 --> 2:33:17.400 a difficult challenge for him to be like to really 2:33:17.440 --> 2:33:19.640 sell who wait, who the fuck are you? 2:33:19.720 --> 2:33:21.640 Who shatters cyril self perception? 2:33:21.840 --> 2:33:25.800 Well, and it's not even I'll even push against a 2:33:25.840 --> 2:33:28.000 little bit that because I don't think it's entirely that. 2:33:28.160 --> 2:33:31.280 I think what I like about Cyril's journey is that, 2:33:31.360 --> 2:33:33.200 and what I like about this episode is that who 2:33:33.240 --> 2:33:35.160 Are You is not just about that line. It is 2:33:35.160 --> 2:33:37.920 about every character that we see in this We are 2:33:38.000 --> 2:33:41.160 learning who they all are, and they are learning who 2:33:41.200 --> 2:33:44.320 they all are. Rylands in the beginning, right, this guy 2:33:44.360 --> 2:33:46.720 who had been so gung ho about the Gorman resistance, 2:33:47.040 --> 2:33:50.160 who had been when he realizes what's happening, that they're 2:33:50.160 --> 2:33:52.840 all going to be massacred, his family and his culture 2:33:52.879 --> 2:33:55.320 are going to be wiped out as a result of 2:33:55.360 --> 2:33:58.199 this act of resistance that he's helped organize. He tries 2:33:58.240 --> 2:33:59.760 to stop it. He says, we have to pull back. 2:33:59.760 --> 2:34:03.320 We and he learns he's not a rebel, right, he's 2:34:03.400 --> 2:34:05.880 a reel And there's always been hints of that. He's 2:34:05.879 --> 2:34:08.160 not a rebel. He's always you know, the Emperor can't 2:34:08.200 --> 2:34:09.720 know about this, right, We've seen hints of this from 2:34:09.760 --> 2:34:13.280 Mark Rylance. He learns that about himself. And then a 2:34:13.280 --> 2:34:15.800 little later in the episode when it's become because we 2:34:16.240 --> 2:34:19.240 watch his kids get massacred. He doesn't see them, but 2:34:19.320 --> 2:34:22.560 he knows they're dead. He hears the gunfire. He understands 2:34:22.600 --> 2:34:24.240 no one's making it out of there. He's not a 2:34:24.320 --> 2:34:27.320 dumb man. And when he comes in and shoots Cyril 2:34:27.360 --> 2:34:30.039 in the head, he learns again who he is. And 2:34:30.080 --> 2:34:33.240 now he wasn't before, but now he is because they've 2:34:33.280 --> 2:34:35.560 taken everything from him, right, Yeah. 2:34:35.600 --> 2:34:38.040 The quote from earlier when he's like arguing with people 2:34:38.040 --> 2:34:40.400 in the streets, He's like, the only path forward is 2:34:40.680 --> 2:34:44.120 silent resistance. Yeah, And by the end of the episode 2:34:44.160 --> 2:34:46.680 he is a little beyond that. 2:34:47.240 --> 2:34:50.080 And I love for him that he gets a chance 2:34:50.120 --> 2:34:53.520 to learn who he is and be wrong and then 2:34:53.640 --> 2:34:56.800 learn again and be right right, which is not a 2:34:56.879 --> 2:35:00.760 chance Cyril is going to get. Cyril does and all 2:35:01.280 --> 2:35:03.440 Cyril is. We see, we see a lot of characters 2:35:03.440 --> 2:35:05.920 in this who could only have been themselves in a 2:35:05.959 --> 2:35:09.400 fascist state. Dedra's one of them, right, Dedra could not 2:35:09.520 --> 2:35:12.680 have been the person she is outside of the Empire. 2:35:13.240 --> 2:35:15.560 I think part of Goaz probably is too, could never 2:35:15.600 --> 2:35:20.440 have been himself fully outside. Certainly, well, I think if you. 2:35:20.400 --> 2:35:24.760 Put Partigas into CIA, he is mostly the same guy. 2:35:24.800 --> 2:35:28.160 I think he must have been in the Republic CIA. Yeah. 2:35:28.240 --> 2:35:32.880 He feels very like Republic transitioned into the empire, like God. 2:35:33.440 --> 2:35:36.080 Yeah, And I think Krenick obviously is one of our best. 2:35:36.480 --> 2:35:41.880 Crenic is only an empire is under fascism, Ye, Cyril 2:35:42.040 --> 2:35:45.760 is not an ideological fascist. Cyril never really embraces fascism 2:35:45.800 --> 2:35:48.560 as a belief system. He never understands the Empire that way, 2:35:48.600 --> 2:35:51.640 he just understands the Empire's law and order, or he 2:35:51.720 --> 2:35:53.840 gets if you look at it from Cyril's standpoint, he 2:35:53.879 --> 2:35:56.160 gets brought into this not because he wants to cramp 2:35:56.240 --> 2:35:58.560 down on clamp down on the evil rebels and he 2:35:58.680 --> 2:36:01.760 loves Palpatine and wants to kill Freedom. It's because two 2:36:01.879 --> 2:36:05.520 guys are murdered that he considers colleagues, and he thinks 2:36:05.560 --> 2:36:06.080 it's wrong. 2:36:06.440 --> 2:36:06.600 Right. 2:36:06.920 --> 2:36:08.680 He has a sense of like justice. 2:36:08.440 --> 2:36:11.160 And he believes he's following that, and he believes that 2:36:11.240 --> 2:36:14.320 his girlfriend is invested in that, and he truly believes. 2:36:14.360 --> 2:36:16.400 He doesn't want to hurt the people of Gorman. He 2:36:16.480 --> 2:36:19.440 wants to find the outside agitators who are driving them 2:36:19.520 --> 2:36:22.600 to disaster, right, And the moment when he learns that 2:36:22.720 --> 2:36:25.320 that's all a lie, he beats the shit out of 2:36:25.360 --> 2:36:27.800 his girlfriend in a very violent I had an argument 2:36:27.879 --> 2:36:30.840 with someone online about like, is this domestic violence? And 2:36:30.959 --> 2:36:33.600 I'm like, in a literal sense, these people are in 2:36:33.680 --> 2:36:36.200 a domestic partnership and he is doing violence to her. 2:36:36.600 --> 2:36:39.240 In a moral sense, if you find out that your 2:36:39.280 --> 2:36:43.760 significant other has been hiding a genocide from you, I 2:36:43.879 --> 2:36:48.240 think it's okay. Like and you've been made complicit in it. 2:36:48.760 --> 2:36:51.480 It's such a fucked up, it's such a it's such 2:36:51.640 --> 2:36:54.760 like every everyone is everyone's fucked and everyone's evil and 2:36:54.800 --> 2:36:57.680 everyone's complicit. Yes, and they're all like calling their own 2:36:57.760 --> 2:37:00.600 commitment to like the state and what they view as 2:37:00.760 --> 2:37:03.520 justice and law and order into question. And like for Cyril, 2:37:04.080 --> 2:37:06.240 like he's he has just committed to this idea like 2:37:06.400 --> 2:37:08.680 justice and what he sees as law and order, and 2:37:08.800 --> 2:37:11.600 the Empire is the physical manifestation of law and order, 2:37:11.640 --> 2:37:14.040 so therefore the Empire must be good, right, and and 2:37:14.160 --> 2:37:18.279 that's his view. And when he realizes maybe the Empire 2:37:18.360 --> 2:37:21.440 actually doesn't really care about law and order, No, they 2:37:21.600 --> 2:37:24.600 just like it, she gets so confused. Like he he 2:37:25.080 --> 2:37:27.160 doesn't know how to orient himself in the world. He 2:37:27.240 --> 2:37:30.440 doesn't know where a sense of morals can be derived from. No, 2:37:30.680 --> 2:37:32.440 if the state is not the represent is not like 2:37:32.560 --> 2:37:35.280 the lawful good representation of like justice. 2:37:35.440 --> 2:37:39.560 And we've seen from Cyril previously that he has physical courage, right, 2:37:39.640 --> 2:37:42.400 he's not afraid of violence, he's not afraid of putting 2:37:42.440 --> 2:37:45.560 himself in physical danger, right, Like he's not a Cassian 2:37:45.680 --> 2:37:48.200 and or level comfortable with it, right because he just 2:37:48.240 --> 2:37:50.520 doesn't have that kind of experience. But he's he's not 2:37:51.080 --> 2:37:54.160 he's not physically a coward, but he's a moral coward 2:37:54.280 --> 2:37:58.200 the whole series and that changes and again going back 2:37:58.240 --> 2:38:00.520 to who are You? He understand he learns one thing 2:38:00.600 --> 2:38:04.520 about himself, which is that he is not a genocide committer, right, 2:38:04.760 --> 2:38:08.040 he is not someone who will consciously participate in the 2:38:08.120 --> 2:38:09.400 annihilation of a race. 2:38:09.800 --> 2:38:09.959 Right. 2:38:10.160 --> 2:38:12.920 When he learns that those are the stakes he hits, 2:38:13.200 --> 2:38:15.880 he chokes Dedra and he fucking runs. He doesn't know 2:38:16.000 --> 2:38:19.800 anything else about himself at that point. And my interpretation 2:38:20.040 --> 2:38:23.160 of his reaction to that line from Cassian isn't just 2:38:23.680 --> 2:38:25.760 because I think what I love about the scene when 2:38:25.760 --> 2:38:28.000 he chooses to attack him, It's not him making a 2:38:28.080 --> 2:38:30.240 decision to go back to the Empire. He's not trying 2:38:30.280 --> 2:38:33.000 to rest to fight Cassian because he wants to get 2:38:33.080 --> 2:38:35.440 back and good. It's just the only thing that makes sense. 2:38:36.000 --> 2:38:40.080 He's nothing ring to his child self. Yes, yes, it's 2:38:40.560 --> 2:38:42.879 crazy because it's animal. The way that he goes after 2:38:42.959 --> 2:38:45.480 him is like a rabbit dog charging, you know. 2:38:46.400 --> 2:38:48.720 Like this whole situation on Gorman calls into question how 2:38:48.760 --> 2:38:51.000 he sees the Empire and therefore how he sees himself 2:38:51.120 --> 2:38:52.760 as he realizes that he's just been a pawn in 2:38:52.840 --> 2:38:56.279 the empire's larger game. And like, in a way, Gorman's 2:38:56.320 --> 2:38:58.320 the first time that Cyril has been part of like 2:38:58.360 --> 2:39:01.040 a real community, maybe since he was like a Corpo cop, 2:39:01.480 --> 2:39:04.320 Like there's no like solidarity in community like on Coorissant, 2:39:04.400 --> 2:39:07.000 there's not in the Bureau of Standards. Like Gorman's the 2:39:07.040 --> 2:39:08.640 first time he's actually kind of been a part of 2:39:08.720 --> 2:39:11.200 a community. And like this happens with like with like 2:39:11.400 --> 2:39:15.280 FBI double agents infiltrating radical organizations. Sometimes it's it's yeah, 2:39:15.400 --> 2:39:17.640 it's it's very odd. So like when he decides to 2:39:17.840 --> 2:39:20.000 join the crowd, it's just like he's aligning with them. 2:39:20.720 --> 2:39:23.040 But then when he sees Cassie and all of this 2:39:23.080 --> 2:39:25.920 psychological like progress, and the question that he's done just 2:39:26.000 --> 2:39:28.640 gets immediately rolled back because then he sees the guy 2:39:28.680 --> 2:39:30.840 who he thinks like kind of like ruined his life, 2:39:30.840 --> 2:39:34.360 who like who who altered the trajectory of what Zero's 2:39:34.360 --> 2:39:37.280 life was supposed to be, And therefore he just he yeah, 2:39:37.320 --> 2:39:41.040 he turns into an animal. He undoes all of all 2:39:41.080 --> 2:39:44.040 of this psychological progress and attacks the guy that he 2:39:44.200 --> 2:39:46.959 views ruined his life, and then in his final moments 2:39:47.040 --> 2:39:49.680 is in part like confronted with the idea that like 2:39:50.240 --> 2:39:52.240 the guy that he's been obsessing over for years doesn't 2:39:52.280 --> 2:39:55.080 even remember who he is, and like Cassian has been 2:39:55.120 --> 2:39:57.600 living rent free in his head this whole time, and 2:39:57.840 --> 2:40:00.520 and like he didn't need to, like Yarol could have 2:40:00.600 --> 2:40:02.600 moved on. Seril didn't need to do this, And he's 2:40:02.600 --> 2:40:05.560 been obsessing over someone who doesn't even remember him. 2:40:06.040 --> 2:40:08.600 So I think the other thing that's really important about 2:40:08.760 --> 2:40:11.320 Cyril's character is like if if you remember him in 2:40:11.400 --> 2:40:14.200 like the very beginning of season one, right, he has 2:40:14.280 --> 2:40:16.400 like like like what he like goes home, like he 2:40:16.480 --> 2:40:18.320 has like a storm he has like storm tuber like 2:40:18.360 --> 2:40:21.040 figure out yea clone trooper like action figure. Yes, And 2:40:21.120 --> 2:40:22.480 and he has and you know, and he's he's like 2:40:22.560 --> 2:40:26.120 tailoring his own uniform because he has this conception of 2:40:26.320 --> 2:40:29.000 himself as this like you know, as like this like 2:40:29.160 --> 2:40:31.640 this brave cop, as this like sort of like like 2:40:31.760 --> 2:40:33.760 this like that this is very specific kind of like 2:40:34.120 --> 2:40:36.760 fascist bureaucrat with a gun like platonic figure. 2:40:36.959 --> 2:40:37.160 Yeah. 2:40:37.320 --> 2:40:40.600 And the thing is Denser Miro is that actual person. 2:40:41.080 --> 2:40:42.600 And this is and this is a tension that that 2:40:42.720 --> 2:40:44.160 they that it's kind of worked out, or of course 2:40:44.200 --> 2:40:47.360 season one if like Dendri Muro is a character who 2:40:47.480 --> 2:40:49.920 in a conventional show is a hero right like she 2:40:50.080 --> 2:40:52.000 is she is she is like the cop that's willing 2:40:52.080 --> 2:40:54.640 to work outside of the restrictions of the thing in 2:40:54.760 --> 2:40:56.520 order to get the job done. Yeah, and then and 2:40:56.600 --> 2:40:59.520 you get to see what that actually is in real life, 2:40:59.560 --> 2:41:02.920 which is she's just fucking torturing people, and you know, 2:41:03.000 --> 2:41:04.640 and she's torturing people and she's gone and she and 2:41:04.920 --> 2:41:07.320 when she gets offered a chance to do the genocide 2:41:07.360 --> 2:41:08.760 in order to investment, she gets that. 2:41:08.840 --> 2:41:09.720 And I think part of what's. 2:41:09.560 --> 2:41:12.440 Going on with Cerial is like Cyril's whole thing is 2:41:12.480 --> 2:41:16.160 that he has been trying to be this cop and 2:41:16.320 --> 2:41:19.600 then he has this moment where he's like, oh shit, 2:41:19.959 --> 2:41:22.840 none of that's like real. The actual thing that it 2:41:22.959 --> 2:41:25.200 means to be this cop isn't just this isn't this 2:41:25.480 --> 2:41:28.160 like I dress up in my in my client was closed. 2:41:28.160 --> 2:41:29.880 And he gets this season one too where he like 2:41:30.320 --> 2:41:33.280 actually goes into the field and it's just like everyone's 2:41:33.280 --> 2:41:35.160 fucking dying around him and he's shell shocked and things 2:41:35.160 --> 2:41:37.720 are exploding, and it's like he's getting that here again 2:41:37.760 --> 2:41:39.560 where it's like his' like thing where he's been cultivating 2:41:39.600 --> 2:41:41.160 this like intelligence. 2:41:41.120 --> 2:41:45.160 Person and he sees it and it just like it 2:41:45.320 --> 2:41:47.800 just sort of it rips away. 2:41:47.879 --> 2:41:50.360 The facade that's like that is the facade of how 2:41:51.400 --> 2:41:53.600 like on a kind of macro level, like how we 2:41:54.040 --> 2:41:57.840 how film and television and how American media thinks about 2:41:57.959 --> 2:42:02.160 like spies and thinks about cops. Sure, and you see 2:42:02.200 --> 2:42:04.400 that the actual brutal reality of it, which is like 2:42:05.000 --> 2:42:07.440 through through the eyes of this person who who like 2:42:07.560 --> 2:42:10.520 through through this sort of like media stuff, has always 2:42:10.560 --> 2:42:12.680 wanted to become this person and is like, oh, you're 2:42:12.760 --> 2:42:14.640 just doing a genocide. The one part of being a 2:42:14.720 --> 2:42:17.000 cop that I can do is like choking is like 2:42:17.120 --> 2:42:17.960 choking my partner. 2:42:18.480 --> 2:42:23.840 M So my interpretation of kind of his ending moments 2:42:24.720 --> 2:42:28.320 is that Number one, I don't really feel it is 2:42:28.440 --> 2:42:31.000 necessarily that he undoes all the progress. I think that 2:42:31.120 --> 2:42:34.760 there's this this animal moment when he sees Cassian that 2:42:34.920 --> 2:42:37.040 just overrides that because nothing else about his life has 2:42:37.240 --> 2:42:40.840 makes sense anymore. He's completely lost any sense of sanity. Sure, 2:42:41.040 --> 2:42:44.080 and Cassian makes sense. Fighting him makes sense, and so 2:42:44.240 --> 2:42:47.560 he does it, and we do see he has a 2:42:47.720 --> 2:42:50.720 chance to shoot him, and he hesitates and he lowers 2:42:50.760 --> 2:42:52.960 the gun just a bit and then he's immediately shot 2:42:53.440 --> 2:42:55.920 and in that moment. Number One, one of the themes 2:42:55.959 --> 2:42:58.000 of this is that, like everyone has their own rebellion, 2:42:58.800 --> 2:43:01.600 there's an argument you can make that him not doing 2:43:01.760 --> 2:43:05.800 that was his last little act of that. There's an 2:43:05.879 --> 2:43:07.680 argument that like maybe he would have, you know, tried 2:43:07.720 --> 2:43:10.560 to engage you in conversation or like you know, monologued 2:43:10.640 --> 2:43:12.680 or whateverbody didn't get the chance. We just don't know. 2:43:12.840 --> 2:43:15.960 We'll never know. And he's kind of contrasted with Rylands 2:43:16.000 --> 2:43:18.959 and that Rylans does get the chance to see who 2:43:19.040 --> 2:43:22.320 he is and have it be not enough and then 2:43:22.520 --> 2:43:25.760 become enough. Cyril gets the chance to see who he 2:43:25.879 --> 2:43:28.080 is and he does do one. He gets one win, 2:43:28.240 --> 2:43:31.000 and it is a win to realize there's a genocide 2:43:31.040 --> 2:43:32.680 going on and I refuse to be a part of it. 2:43:32.800 --> 2:43:32.920 Right. 2:43:33.000 --> 2:43:36.600 That's not nothing that he makes that choice. We don't 2:43:36.640 --> 2:43:38.640 know where he would have gone from here. There's a 2:43:38.760 --> 2:43:40.480 version of Cyril that could have been a part of 2:43:40.560 --> 2:43:42.280 the rebel, that could have if he had just left 2:43:42.400 --> 2:43:45.480 Cassie and helped some Gorman's escape on a ship, used 2:43:45.520 --> 2:43:48.680 his imperial credentials gotten them out of there. It becomes 2:43:48.800 --> 2:43:53.080 something else We'll never know because he doesn't get the chance. 2:43:53.160 --> 2:43:56.240 And I see in that last moment, not just him 2:43:56.280 --> 2:43:58.120 being like, you don't know who I am? Oh, that 2:43:58.280 --> 2:44:01.440 shatters me, but him being asked who are you and 2:44:01.600 --> 2:44:04.920 realizing I have no answer to that question? Yeah? Yeah, 2:44:05.080 --> 2:44:07.640 And he just doesn't get the chance ever to do that. 2:44:08.400 --> 2:44:13.520 It is a very like Greek tragedy, ugh like moment tyr. Yeah, phenomenal, 2:44:13.720 --> 2:44:14.760 phenomenal screenwriting. 2:44:15.200 --> 2:44:16.959 I will larw you. It's going to get paid off 2:44:17.040 --> 2:44:19.920 a lot in the next three episodes. But there's this 2:44:20.040 --> 2:44:22.600 idea that has run through the series that even if 2:44:22.680 --> 2:44:25.840 you are someone working within this machinery of death, within 2:44:25.920 --> 2:44:30.280 this evil empire, you're not unredeemable or unsavable. But you 2:44:30.360 --> 2:44:35.760 don't have unlimited time. Right, Yeah, you can be something else. 2:44:35.920 --> 2:44:40.640 You have that chance, but you don't have infinite days 2:44:41.120 --> 2:44:42.120 to make that choice. 2:44:42.280 --> 2:44:44.920 This is like the entire message of Star Wars. This 2:44:45.080 --> 2:44:47.720 is like, this is this is like Luke in Vader 2:44:47.760 --> 2:44:49.880 in the Throne Room. This is like what this whole 2:44:49.959 --> 2:44:50.960 series is about. 2:44:51.240 --> 2:44:52.040 Like is this moment. 2:44:52.160 --> 2:44:54.960 Yeah, yep, I do have a few other things I 2:44:55.000 --> 2:44:56.880 want to talk about in terms of like the massacre. 2:44:57.680 --> 2:44:59.080 I really like that we see a return of like 2:44:59.080 --> 2:45:02.040 imperial military police, not just stormtroopers. I think putting a 2:45:02.120 --> 2:45:05.040 face on the riot cops is really good for the 2:45:05.080 --> 2:45:11.119 audience because stormtroopers are backpacks and t shirts and little 2:45:11.240 --> 2:45:15.480 fun toys and riot cops or riot cops. I'd really 2:45:15.600 --> 2:45:17.959 like that Willman is sleeping with a French militant. 2:45:18.080 --> 2:45:19.279 Many such cases. 2:45:20.480 --> 2:45:20.959 Among us. 2:45:23.440 --> 2:45:26.280 Hartagras in a like a phone call with Dedras talking 2:45:26.320 --> 2:45:29.720 about how like yeah, like you know, propaganda, news media 2:45:29.720 --> 2:45:32.440 has been useful and like spreading like rumors and like 2:45:32.520 --> 2:45:34.240 you know, like co intel pro that's for stuff. It's 2:45:34.240 --> 2:45:36.920 been useful. But now the only the quote is like 2:45:36.959 --> 2:45:39.840 now the only story is Gorman aggression. Like this is 2:45:39.879 --> 2:45:41.800 all that we can focus on. There's there's no no 2:45:41.920 --> 2:45:44.960 more of this like outside agitators thing, no more of 2:45:45.000 --> 2:45:47.560 this like long term slow planning. We have to we 2:45:47.640 --> 2:45:50.480 just have to focus on how like savage these Gormans are. 2:45:51.080 --> 2:45:54.160 And meanwhile, like Fox like space, Fox News is outside 2:45:54.240 --> 2:45:56.640 stoking divisions on Gorman, talking about how there's rumors of 2:45:56.640 --> 2:46:01.440 a quote unquote general strike. How How how the empire 2:46:01.480 --> 2:46:06.080 is negotiating for like a peaceful demonstration, even though even 2:46:06.120 --> 2:46:08.320 though even though the leaders are obviously you know, making 2:46:08.600 --> 2:46:12.520 making people agitated in this in this growing insurrection, The 2:46:12.680 --> 2:46:15.240 Chance got me. I have heard way too many the 2:46:15.320 --> 2:46:17.080 whole world is watching Chance. 2:46:17.240 --> 2:46:17.959 So as soon as they. 2:46:17.840 --> 2:46:22.720 Started to go the galaxy, I started like, I started 2:46:22.720 --> 2:46:25.480 like get like sweat egg I started having no No that. 2:46:25.600 --> 2:46:29.280 That gave me a little breakdown too. It's my least favorite. No, 2:46:29.400 --> 2:46:30.160 it's happening again. 2:46:33.160 --> 2:46:34.480 The galaxy isn't watching. 2:46:34.600 --> 2:46:40.080 No, it's not it's not. Oh I hate that chant. 2:46:40.200 --> 2:46:44.199 I hate that fucking Chance. It's very real. It's very real, 2:46:44.360 --> 2:46:48.279 right like this these guys right, yes, we get. 2:46:48.280 --> 2:46:51.000 We get like a real proper riot set up, right, 2:46:51.080 --> 2:46:53.400 like the last riot in and Or was on fer 2:46:53.480 --> 2:46:55.160 Ex Like that was like a funeral riot. 2:46:55.320 --> 2:46:58.119 Right, It's almost like some of the writers have seen kettles. 2:46:59.400 --> 2:47:01.439 It's great, it's crazy. 2:47:01.520 --> 2:47:03.600 And like this time like this is not like a 2:47:03.720 --> 2:47:06.360 morning ritual like like it was unfair, like this is 2:47:06.480 --> 2:47:09.119 this is this is a protest riot. There's there's signs, 2:47:09.160 --> 2:47:13.240 there's banners, there's fireworks, there's smoke, there's space molotovs, there's 2:47:13.280 --> 2:47:17.240 state affiliated news crews. There's tie fighters flying overhead like 2:47:17.400 --> 2:47:19.080 police copters and police drums. 2:47:19.320 --> 2:47:20.040 It's excellent. 2:47:20.160 --> 2:47:22.680 I got a little flashback of being buzzed by a 2:47:22.760 --> 2:47:25.879 police helicopter. It's standing rocks so close that it knocked 2:47:25.920 --> 2:47:28.600 my car off the road. That's what happened with the 2:47:28.640 --> 2:47:30.080 tie fighter. So good. 2:47:30.160 --> 2:47:30.360 Yeah. 2:47:30.560 --> 2:47:33.080 Yeah. And it's like like like right down to like 2:47:33.280 --> 2:47:36.400 just just like the micro dynamics of like how the 2:47:36.520 --> 2:47:40.920 crowd is interacting with the riot shields. It's like, oh shit. 2:47:41.320 --> 2:47:43.800 And I got the same not in my stomach when 2:47:43.840 --> 2:47:46.080 I can tell that it's about to go down. I 2:47:46.160 --> 2:47:49.720 get this the same not watching this like they really 2:47:49.840 --> 2:47:50.560 nailed It's. 2:47:50.440 --> 2:47:52.000 Great too, is it? With in the just in the 2:47:52.040 --> 2:47:55.520 face acting, but with Cassie and and with Wilman, you 2:47:55.640 --> 2:47:58.640 can see that they know they've been in this. They 2:47:58.720 --> 2:48:02.480 know Willman a spatlieh Okay, okay, okay, I know what's happening. 2:48:03.360 --> 2:48:06.480 I also really like that, okay, so okay. So the 2:48:07.120 --> 2:48:09.600 challenge that Gilroy has here is we have to introduce 2:48:09.640 --> 2:48:13.360 the concept of kettling to the average Star Wars watcher, 2:48:13.800 --> 2:48:17.080 and with the average Star Wars watcher. You can't be like, Okay, 2:48:17.120 --> 2:48:18.760 the police are going to form a wall. You have 2:48:18.879 --> 2:48:22.400 to physically make walls come in around the thing. 2:48:22.840 --> 2:48:25.960 Like some people have said that the Gorman mascer is 2:48:26.040 --> 2:48:29.840 very clearly inspired by what's happened in Palestine. These episodes 2:48:30.120 --> 2:48:33.760 I'm sure were informed by other massacres in Palestine, but 2:48:33.879 --> 2:48:37.800 these were written prior to the most current outbreak of 2:48:38.040 --> 2:48:40.199 really intense genocidal violence. 2:48:40.080 --> 2:48:42.080 In like twenty two. 2:48:42.240 --> 2:48:46.920 Probably again there were other similar massacres that occurred in Palestine. 2:48:46.959 --> 2:48:49.240 But also like this is very clearly patterned off of 2:48:49.280 --> 2:48:53.680 Bloody Sunday in Northern Ireland. This is very clearly patterned 2:48:53.760 --> 2:48:58.040 off of I would argue my suspicion the Ombuitz massacre 2:48:58.200 --> 2:49:00.240 in India by the British government as well. Like I 2:49:00.320 --> 2:49:02.200 think that there are pieces of all of that in here. 2:49:02.360 --> 2:49:04.920 There's also elements that I heard friend of the show 2:49:05.640 --> 2:49:08.560 Emmy Who's Great, talking about, like the Tlata Laco massacre, 2:49:08.600 --> 2:49:10.360 which is like the massacre in nineteen sixty eight in 2:49:10.400 --> 2:49:13.560 a square in the middle of Mexico City, which is 2:49:13.640 --> 2:49:15.760 massacre where there's like these giant students sixty eight student 2:49:15.800 --> 2:49:19.160 protests are happening and they just like put snipers on 2:49:19.160 --> 2:49:20.080 the rears and shoot everyone. 2:49:20.760 --> 2:49:21.119 Mm hm. 2:49:21.600 --> 2:49:24.880 And I think so when I saw this, like I 2:49:25.200 --> 2:49:27.200 thought it was going to be a lot more of 2:49:27.400 --> 2:49:30.840 just like a straight massacre. Everyone dies and it kind 2:49:30.840 --> 2:49:33.160 of turns into a shootout, and I wasn't sure how 2:49:33.280 --> 2:49:36.160 that was going to play. Also, I think it is 2:49:36.240 --> 2:49:39.080 also worth remembering that, like also a lot of the 2:49:39.120 --> 2:49:42.960 sort of famous historical massacres aren't like some people do 2:49:43.080 --> 2:49:45.520 shoot back. Yes, because the thing at Tieneman, like some 2:49:45.680 --> 2:49:47.200 of the some of some of the students like take 2:49:47.240 --> 2:49:50.080 workers from soldiers that they fought and like shoot, Well, yeah, 2:49:50.120 --> 2:49:51.960 this is more of the workers. And by the time 2:49:51.959 --> 2:49:53.360 they get into the square with the students, like those 2:49:53.400 --> 2:49:55.600 people don't have gone. Some of the workers like try 2:49:55.640 --> 2:49:58.640 to fight back and just get massacred. But it seems 2:49:58.680 --> 2:50:03.160 to have been really effective. Yeah, And just like conveying that, like, yeah, 2:50:03.280 --> 2:50:05.200 this shit happens constantly. 2:50:05.280 --> 2:50:07.680 It happened in my dawn too. Write where you have 2:50:08.080 --> 2:50:11.920 you know, both you have Berkut snipers shooting and killing 2:50:12.000 --> 2:50:16.680 protesters and you have protesters firing back from behind the barricades. Yeah. 2:50:17.360 --> 2:50:20.080 I really liked the singing the gorba national anthem as 2:50:20.120 --> 2:50:23.480 a way to like, yeah, stop the chanting, which is 2:50:23.560 --> 2:50:26.920 like calling towards you know, like we're safe because the 2:50:27.000 --> 2:50:29.600 galaxy's watching us. And like the guy who starts to 2:50:29.720 --> 2:50:32.160 the song realizes, like that maybe that's not true, and 2:50:32.320 --> 2:50:36.880 instead the song like unites people in like national solidarity 2:50:36.959 --> 2:50:39.280 to prepare them for what's about to happen, instead of 2:50:39.360 --> 2:50:41.600 like gesturing outwards at like this at like you know 2:50:41.800 --> 2:50:45.000 those those off planet watching this, and that ensures our safety, 2:50:45.040 --> 2:50:47.360 Like no, our safety is from like each other. And 2:50:47.440 --> 2:50:48.960 the fact that yeah, so many of them do fire 2:50:49.080 --> 2:50:50.600 back and like it is it. They do not like 2:50:50.680 --> 2:50:53.320 lose their agency, and it doesn't like make this less 2:50:53.360 --> 2:50:54.000 of a massacre. 2:50:54.320 --> 2:50:55.200 Yeah, there's another example. 2:50:55.280 --> 2:50:57.200 This is like the Red Summer, which is like a 2:50:57.240 --> 2:50:59.640 whole bunch of like anti anti black race riots and 2:50:59.800 --> 2:51:02.400 you and it's it's not what he thinks. It's like, yeah, 2:51:02.400 --> 2:51:05.800 it's remembered as like a bunch of white supremacists just 2:51:06.080 --> 2:51:07.119 murdered a bunch of black people. 2:51:07.160 --> 2:51:07.640 And that's true. 2:51:07.640 --> 2:51:10.640 But also people fought back, like people had guns, people 2:51:10.680 --> 2:51:14.640 fought back, people resisted them, and you know a lot 2:51:14.680 --> 2:51:18.000 of people fucking died. And also people in these situations 2:51:18.040 --> 2:51:21.000 fight back and it's good. The last thing I want 2:51:21.040 --> 2:51:23.840 to discuss in this last section is the based hotel 2:51:24.000 --> 2:51:25.520 porter who throws that. 2:51:25.680 --> 2:51:30.360 Bob my god. Oh yeah, and again, yeah, we are 2:51:30.520 --> 2:51:33.040 learning he already knows clearly he knows who he is. 2:51:33.200 --> 2:51:35.160 He never has any question about that. But we don't 2:51:35.200 --> 2:51:38.520 know who he is. Cassian doesn't fully until he's like, yeah, 2:51:38.520 --> 2:51:40.800 I wiped you from the system, bro, get out of here, right. 2:51:40.840 --> 2:51:42.880 So that's what we're talking about, yeah, is this is 2:51:42.920 --> 2:51:43.800 this base hotel porter. 2:51:43.879 --> 2:51:46.360 And also that the way the way Cassian works as 2:51:46.360 --> 2:51:48.800 a spy is different from the way that other like 2:51:48.959 --> 2:51:52.160 Luther and operatives do. Like Cassian gets to know this 2:51:52.320 --> 2:51:55.080 guy in the previous arc of episodes when he's when 2:51:55.120 --> 2:51:57.560 he's like going to like survey the Gorman Front like 2:51:57.640 --> 2:51:59.840 a year ago, and he gets into a conversation with 2:52:00.120 --> 2:52:02.800 hotel porter who was at like the Tarkan massacre and 2:52:03.120 --> 2:52:04.480 was like was there when there was like five hunch 2:52:04.520 --> 2:52:07.359 people died and like and and his dad died protecting 2:52:07.440 --> 2:52:11.000 him like like andor like converses with him in his 2:52:11.560 --> 2:52:13.640 in his hotel room to like learn about like the 2:52:13.760 --> 2:52:16.039 local people and to like learn about the actual history 2:52:16.400 --> 2:52:18.920 from like a regular guy who experienced it. And this 2:52:19.040 --> 2:52:21.000 isn't something that like vell and sint to really do. 2:52:21.160 --> 2:52:23.280 This isn't something that that Luthen really does like like 2:52:23.440 --> 2:52:26.879 and Or has a connection or like and Or values 2:52:26.959 --> 2:52:30.279 making connections with just like the regular people and wherever 2:52:30.360 --> 2:52:33.760 he's operating, and this this always like trans outs to 2:52:33.840 --> 2:52:35.680 help and Or in the long run, even if he 2:52:35.720 --> 2:52:38.959 doesn't really know it in like the immediate because when 2:52:39.000 --> 2:52:41.959 Andor comes back a year later under a different name 2:52:42.040 --> 2:52:45.560 with a different job, the hotel porter recognizes him and 2:52:45.800 --> 2:52:47.160 is like, I got you, buddy. 2:52:47.600 --> 2:52:48.160 I I. 2:52:49.640 --> 2:52:52.960 Know that you're up to something and I will protect you, 2:52:53.240 --> 2:52:56.440 like where we are in this together, Like I recognize you, 2:52:56.879 --> 2:52:59.760 and I like value you, and that is what like 2:53:00.200 --> 2:53:02.360 helps helps and Or like in this episode. 2:53:02.840 --> 2:53:05.720 And then also the grenades that he throws is you 2:53:05.800 --> 2:53:06.879 know cool, uh. 2:53:07.800 --> 2:53:10.440 And there's there's a beautiful and Or's last line to 2:53:10.520 --> 2:53:13.000 this kid is I hope things work out for you. 2:53:13.800 --> 2:53:17.200 And the last thing we see that kid do is 2:53:17.480 --> 2:53:20.040 detonate a bomb to kill himself and a bunch of 2:53:20.120 --> 2:53:20.720 other people. 2:53:20.959 --> 2:53:22.400 Rebellions are built on hope. 2:53:22.840 --> 2:53:25.720 Yeah, yeah, And he tells him rebellions are built on hope, 2:53:25.720 --> 2:53:27.520 which is where we get that line from Rogue one. 2:53:27.800 --> 2:53:29.879 I like that Sam, the guy with two m's who 2:53:30.360 --> 2:53:32.680 killed Sinta last Dark is still in the fight and 2:53:32.800 --> 2:53:35.480 is killing imperials. He is, yes, he is killing them 2:53:35.520 --> 2:53:37.480 in the name of Sinta. He is, he is showing up. 2:53:37.520 --> 2:53:40.520 He is real and he he he again. He learns 2:53:40.600 --> 2:53:43.120 who he is in this episode, right, like he's not 2:53:43.320 --> 2:53:45.680 just a fuck up. He rams a truck into that 2:53:46.360 --> 2:53:49.920 K two unit and save save Cassio, save, saves the 2:53:49.959 --> 2:53:53.400 whole day. And yes, he learns Rellion too. Yeah, he 2:53:53.520 --> 2:53:53.920 learns who. 2:53:53.959 --> 2:53:56.320 I feel like that everything good that happens to Cassiod 2:53:56.560 --> 2:53:59.080 all the people who do it are like in part 2:53:59.280 --> 2:54:01.800 like a responsible for the destruction out of the Death Star, 2:54:01.840 --> 2:54:04.320 which shows how like the butterfly effect works. 2:54:04.120 --> 2:54:04.920 In a really fun way. 2:54:05.240 --> 2:54:08.840 Yeah, and like like a good luth and operative casting 2:54:08.959 --> 2:54:12.120 and takes K two to get reprogrammed. But like this, 2:54:12.280 --> 2:54:14.560 this episode like ends on this on this Gorman cry 2:54:14.640 --> 2:54:18.320 for help, this like final broadcast done by Wilman's French 2:54:18.440 --> 2:54:21.920 GF and I I was legitimately tearing up at this. 2:54:22.440 --> 2:54:25.200 Uh it got to me and or starts tearing up, 2:54:25.320 --> 2:54:28.000 but like it's it, It really got to me. And 2:54:28.080 --> 2:54:30.000 then like we zoom out of Gorman and you can 2:54:30.080 --> 2:54:34.279 see like how unnatural the imperial like tower is above 2:54:34.440 --> 2:54:37.200 like the regular Palomo skyline with lit's like you know, 2:54:37.400 --> 2:54:40.760 historical architecture that you have this like just just like 2:54:41.120 --> 2:54:45.840 hideous like imperial it like citadel, like casting a dark 2:54:45.920 --> 2:54:48.560 shadow over the town. And then we we cut to 2:54:48.640 --> 2:54:51.960 Cyril's mom crying watching Fox News where they're talking about 2:54:52.000 --> 2:54:56.160 how outside rebel assistance helped the Gorman front and they question, 2:54:56.560 --> 2:54:59.440 what's the price will pay for our own safety? And 2:54:59.560 --> 2:55:00.880 that's how the episode ends. 2:55:02.920 --> 2:55:03.560 What aisode? 2:55:03.959 --> 2:55:04.640 What aisode? 2:55:05.240 --> 2:55:07.240 All right, we'll go on a break and then come 2:55:07.320 --> 2:55:10.320 back to briefly discuss this last episode, which is also 2:55:10.400 --> 2:55:10.760 quite good. 2:55:20.800 --> 2:55:23.280 Okay, we're back. Episode nine. 2:55:23.640 --> 2:55:27.440 Welcome to the Rebellion Clone wars heads are feasting so 2:55:27.600 --> 2:55:32.240 much Senate very fun. So on Corussant, fake news spreads 2:55:32.240 --> 2:55:34.880 about what has happened on Gorman and the Gorman senator 2:55:35.000 --> 2:55:39.199 is arrested with no warrant and no charges. Mad Mathma 2:55:39.280 --> 2:55:41.320 plans to make a final speech in the Senate and 2:55:41.400 --> 2:55:44.800 then leave Coroissant with bail. Organa to lead the rebel 2:55:44.840 --> 2:55:48.720 alliance on Yavin, but Senator Organa doesn't want to leave yet. 2:55:49.400 --> 2:55:51.880 He wants to stay and buy time for Yavin to 2:55:51.920 --> 2:55:54.640 get fully up and running, but he advises Mon to 2:55:54.720 --> 2:55:57.640 go through with the speech and offers an extraction team 2:55:58.000 --> 2:56:01.320 to help her get off Corussant. While writing her speech, 2:56:01.400 --> 2:56:04.280 Man Mathma is the Senate aid Erskine finds an ISD 2:56:04.440 --> 2:56:07.640 listening device in her office. She goes outside to practice 2:56:07.680 --> 2:56:10.960 the speech while Erskine continues to search for more bugs. 2:56:11.520 --> 2:56:14.840 Waiting outside for Man is Luthan, who tells her that 2:56:15.080 --> 2:56:18.480 Erskine's been secretly working for him for two years and 2:56:18.879 --> 2:56:24.199 that Bail's extraction team is somehow corrupted. Man grows upset 2:56:24.400 --> 2:56:27.920 at Luthan's deceptions and secrets and is unsure of who 2:56:28.040 --> 2:56:31.040 to trust, but Luthan says that he is sending a 2:56:31.240 --> 2:56:36.480 highly trusted operative as an alternative extraction plan. Cassian, still 2:56:36.560 --> 2:56:40.360 undercover as a conflict journalist, agrees to escort Manmathma as 2:56:40.440 --> 2:56:44.480 his last job for the rebellion. Other senators mourned the 2:56:44.680 --> 2:56:49.160 Imperial martyrs slain by the Savage Gormans before Bail. Organa 2:56:49.400 --> 2:56:52.400 invokes a Senate article to hand the Florida Monmothma, where 2:56:52.480 --> 2:56:55.880 she gives her speech calling what's happened on Gorman a 2:56:56.000 --> 2:57:00.920 genocide and labels Emperor Palpatine a monster that, empowered by 2:57:00.920 --> 2:57:05.760 the Senate, has hijacked the truth and reality. The ICB 2:57:05.959 --> 2:57:08.760 orders to shut down the Senate feed and detain Senator Mathma, 2:57:09.160 --> 2:57:12.240 but as Mon exits the Senate chamber, Cassian is waiting 2:57:12.280 --> 2:57:16.199 outside as Lucan suspected one of Bail's extraction team members 2:57:16.520 --> 2:57:19.240 is an ISB double agent, and kills another one of 2:57:19.320 --> 2:57:23.080 Baile's operatives once they're found out. The undercover ICB agent 2:57:23.160 --> 2:57:26.520 tries to arrest Mon but is killed by Erskine and Cassian. 2:57:27.040 --> 2:57:29.280 Man helps navigate through the Senate building as it's put 2:57:29.280 --> 2:57:32.920 into lockdown, eventually reaching her vehicle outside, where Cassian kills 2:57:32.959 --> 2:57:35.560 her driver, Chlorus, who's also an ISOB plant. 2:57:36.080 --> 2:57:39.000 Well was maybe we'll talk about that, yeah. 2:57:39.240 --> 2:57:42.840 Cassian takes Wilman to Yavin for medical attention while Gold 2:57:42.920 --> 2:57:46.920 Squadron finishes Man's escort to the rebel base back on Base, 2:57:47.360 --> 2:57:52.400 Bix breaks up with Cassian via snapchat message and leaves 2:57:52.520 --> 2:57:55.760 Yavin to fight for the rebellion elsewhere and to keep 2:57:55.840 --> 2:58:00.480 Cassian on Yavin, and later that day rebel and engineers 2:58:00.560 --> 2:58:05.920 reprogram these salvaged k extroid. Okay, this episode has a 2:58:05.959 --> 2:58:08.640 lot of a lot of politics, A lot of politicking, Yeah, 2:58:08.640 --> 2:58:10.879 a lot a lot of capital Senate stuff. 2:58:11.480 --> 2:58:15.280 I want to read a little bit from monmothmaus speech here. Sure, 2:58:15.720 --> 2:58:18.680 what I think is kind of the nut of it here, 2:58:19.280 --> 2:58:21.560 I believe we are in a crisis. The distance between 2:58:21.600 --> 2:58:23.320 what is said and what is known to be true 2:58:23.360 --> 2:58:25.520 has become an abyss. Of all the things at risk, 2:58:25.640 --> 2:58:28.640 the loss of an objective reality is perhaps the most dangerous. 2:58:29.120 --> 2:58:31.400 The death of truth is the ultimate victory of evil. 2:58:31.480 --> 2:58:33.680 When truth leaves us, when we let it slip away, 2:58:33.760 --> 2:58:36.439 when it is ripped from our hands, we become vulnerable 2:58:36.480 --> 2:58:39.320 to the appetite of whatever monster screams the loudest. 2:58:40.240 --> 2:58:44.480 Uh boy, it's a little orange man bad. But hey, 2:58:44.560 --> 2:58:45.959 the Orange Man is bad. 2:58:47.240 --> 2:58:50.279 It's not just orange. It's making a broader, more historical 2:58:50.360 --> 2:58:54.240 point that totally yes. The reason all of this works. 2:58:54.320 --> 2:58:57.280 By destroying any kind of shared concept of reality, you 2:58:57.400 --> 2:58:59.600 can get people to If you can get people to 2:58:59.680 --> 2:59:02.600 believe absurdities, you can get them to commit atrocities. 2:59:02.920 --> 2:59:05.160 Right, I mean, this is this is what like the 2:59:05.280 --> 2:59:06.400 Nazis understood as well. 2:59:07.160 --> 2:59:11.080 Yes, and I love that speech. I think it's really 2:59:11.320 --> 2:59:13.080 one of one of my favorite bits of this is 2:59:13.120 --> 2:59:15.800 that it continues to show the degree to which, as 2:59:15.840 --> 2:59:20.480 in Nimic's Manifesto, tiny spontaneous individual acts of rebellion are 2:59:20.520 --> 2:59:23.000 constantly occurring and are a key part of the movement 2:59:23.040 --> 2:59:26.000 even when they're not organized. Mathma only gets through her 2:59:26.080 --> 2:59:28.959 speech and maybe only lives because a team of door 2:59:29.040 --> 2:59:32.119 repair guys who do not appear to be anyone's secret 2:59:32.200 --> 2:59:35.480 agents just fuck up purposefully at their job, like we 2:59:35.520 --> 2:59:37.440 can't get in I don't know, man, we can't get 2:59:37.440 --> 2:59:39.360 into the fucking thing, Like you're gonna have to wait. 2:59:39.440 --> 2:59:41.800 We're still working on this. Yeah, and it's kind of 2:59:41.840 --> 2:59:46.640 inferred that, like it's it's weaponized incompetence, right, And I 2:59:46.760 --> 2:59:50.280 really appreciate that bit. We have a showdown with her 2:59:50.320 --> 2:59:53.160 and her driver because she becomes aware before her speech 2:59:53.240 --> 2:59:54.960 that her driver, who she's been taking in as a 2:59:55.040 --> 2:59:57.320 confidant in the last couple episodes. 2:59:57.080 --> 2:59:59.600 Well no, no, no, no, like her driver, she's known 2:59:59.640 --> 3:00:02.800 her driver, Chlorus has been like isb for like two seasons. 3:00:03.720 --> 3:00:06.000 This is a different driver. I think than first this 3:00:06.080 --> 3:00:08.680 is the same driver, because she's been talking. She's been 3:00:08.760 --> 3:00:10.720 talking to Chloris a couple of times. She makes a 3:00:10.760 --> 3:00:12.080 comment about that this one hurts. 3:00:12.520 --> 3:00:15.800 She's been talking to like Erskine, like, oh shit, yeah, 3:00:16.160 --> 3:00:18.400 she's she's been getting closer to like her state aid. 3:00:18.720 --> 3:00:20.640 Chlorus has always been like a dipshit who they've kept 3:00:20.680 --> 3:00:23.200 around because he's like kind of bad at his job. 3:00:23.800 --> 3:00:27.600 He is bad at being an ISB, like like paid informant, 3:00:27.720 --> 3:00:30.040 so they like keep him around even though they know 3:00:30.120 --> 3:00:31.200 he's reporting to ISB. 3:00:31.680 --> 3:00:33.720 There's a little bit of an insinuation with him looking 3:00:33.760 --> 3:00:36.600 at his gun and listening to her that maybe he's 3:00:36.680 --> 3:00:39.280 rethinking things. But again, we never get the chance to 3:00:39.320 --> 3:00:40.280 see that because Cassie and. 3:00:40.640 --> 3:00:42.040 I think he's like thinking about if he's gonna have 3:00:42.160 --> 3:00:44.040 like a rest or shoot her. Yeah, that was my 3:00:44.120 --> 3:00:44.560 bread on it. 3:00:44.680 --> 3:00:46.760 I think he's making up his mind about what he's 3:00:46.800 --> 3:00:49.280 gonna do. And I don't think we actually see that, 3:00:49.640 --> 3:00:51.480 but I mean I think it's open to interpretation. 3:00:51.720 --> 3:00:55.199 Yeah, because Cassian domes his little because little. 3:00:54.959 --> 3:00:57.760 Thus has and does not take chances like that, he 3:00:58.120 --> 3:00:59.240 does not take chances. 3:00:59.520 --> 3:01:03.320 And also Cassian employs great tactics in asking Man what 3:01:03.440 --> 3:01:06.000 his name is first to engage him in conversation, to 3:01:06.040 --> 3:01:08.080 distract him enough to like totally surprise him. 3:01:09.000 --> 3:01:11.840 Yeah, very good. I also I like the one of 3:01:11.879 --> 3:01:14.680 the kind of it's not stated directly, but like Lannie, 3:01:14.800 --> 3:01:19.000 the Imperial deep cover agent within the ISB, is the 3:01:19.120 --> 3:01:22.959 guy who put these people there, particularly the incompetent ISB 3:01:23.080 --> 3:01:25.320 agent who Cassian first shoots the lady, the. 3:01:25.360 --> 3:01:28.720 Person who's infiltrated Man's team a Baile's team. Yeah, Like, 3:01:29.040 --> 3:01:31.520 the reason why Luthan knows that there's something wrong with 3:01:31.640 --> 3:01:34.600 Bail's team is because the agent that has that has 3:01:34.680 --> 3:01:39.200 infiltrated like Baile's network is one of Lonnie's agents. So 3:01:39.440 --> 3:01:42.840 Lonnie was able to get word to Luthan that there 3:01:42.879 --> 3:01:46.080 could be a problem with with Baile's extraction team and 3:01:46.240 --> 3:01:49.600 that's what that's what helps helps get mont Yavin safely. 3:01:50.160 --> 3:01:50.360 Yeah. 3:01:50.640 --> 3:01:52.840 And it's just kind of more confirmation of the value 3:01:52.920 --> 3:01:55.600 of Lannie of yeah, having him there and how he 3:01:55.720 --> 3:01:59.640 how much he was worth the sacrifice of Ando Krieger 3:01:59.680 --> 3:02:01.400 and his rebels and season. 3:02:01.120 --> 3:02:05.240 One Nonnie Lonnie is mvp uh. Like a lot of 3:02:05.280 --> 3:02:09.200 this episode is kind of showing how much Luthen's accelerationist 3:02:09.280 --> 3:02:11.720 project has kind of succeeded, like like how much he's 3:02:11.800 --> 3:02:14.240 he's in somewhat set up Gorman or at least like 3:02:14.320 --> 3:02:17.560 fed the fire of Gorman slightly to create this political 3:02:17.640 --> 3:02:20.680 crisis to further his like accelerationist goal of creating this 3:02:20.800 --> 3:02:23.200 like big conflict, and like we see some of that 3:02:23.840 --> 3:02:26.720 start to work out, even though Luthen himself is like 3:02:26.840 --> 3:02:28.920 having a much harder time and the kind of the 3:02:29.160 --> 3:02:31.400 house of cards he's built is starting to crumble and 3:02:31.520 --> 3:02:33.440 he's probably not gonna be able to work with many 3:02:33.520 --> 3:02:35.279 people for for very much longer. 3:02:35.800 --> 3:02:37.400 Yeah, And that's like that That's the other thing I 3:02:37.440 --> 3:02:39.240 want to mention about this episode about the way Luthen 3:02:39.280 --> 3:02:42.040 operates is that because the way Luthen operates is by 3:02:42.120 --> 3:02:45.000 fucking not telling anyone anything and by manipulating people and 3:02:45.040 --> 3:02:47.440 by spying on them, and by like having this whole 3:02:47.480 --> 3:02:49.480 network of double agents and like people who doesn't like 3:02:50.040 --> 3:02:52.160 the problem with operating like that, And this is the 3:02:52.200 --> 3:02:54.680 problem that he's running into here is like mon Mathma 3:02:54.879 --> 3:02:57.360 does not fucking trust him because the thing that she 3:02:57.560 --> 3:02:59.800 learned when Luthen comes to tell her like, hey, the 3:03:00.080 --> 3:03:02.320 the you can't go with Bail's team. Yeah, Baile's team 3:03:02.360 --> 3:03:04.520 is going to kill you. She's like, you fucking this. 3:03:04.800 --> 3:03:07.440 You've had my own aids spying on me for two 3:03:08.560 --> 3:03:12.000 what the fuck? Yeah, Like it's like like this this 3:03:12.120 --> 3:03:14.280 is like a persistent problem with the like and you 3:03:14.400 --> 3:03:17.360 start to see this, have have we surround have we 3:03:17.440 --> 3:03:19.400 seen Vell like not working with him anymore? 3:03:19.879 --> 3:03:22.560 I think we have in these episodes, uh Vell does 3:03:22.640 --> 3:03:24.480 not seem to be working with him anymore. She's more 3:03:24.560 --> 3:03:27.520 or less completely gone in on the actual like military 3:03:27.600 --> 3:03:28.359 part of the alliance. 3:03:28.879 --> 3:03:31.040 Yeah then yeah, well and this and this is the 3:03:31.160 --> 3:03:32.560 this is the thing about this is like you get 3:03:32.640 --> 3:03:35.280 to watch every walking away from You get to watch 3:03:35.280 --> 3:03:37.800 everyone who Luthen had worked everyone walks away with him 3:03:37.800 --> 3:03:40.800 because they're like this guy keeps being an asshole and 3:03:40.879 --> 3:03:43.200 he keeps hiding things with people, and he keeps manipulating everyone, 3:03:43.520 --> 3:03:45.520 and it's like it's like he's doing and this is 3:03:45.640 --> 3:03:47.480 this is like also this is a kind of person 3:03:48.360 --> 3:03:49.920 also that you run into where it's like they're doing 3:03:49.959 --> 3:03:53.119 really important work and also interpersonally they're impossible to fucking 3:03:53.160 --> 3:03:56.360 work with and like like and you can you can 3:03:56.400 --> 3:04:00.280 watch it even emulate with this having like real political gratifications. Yeah, 3:04:00.360 --> 3:04:02.040 where it's just like, no, this guy has been just 3:04:02.120 --> 3:04:04.920 like jerking her chain around and like lying to us 3:04:04.959 --> 3:04:07.400 and manipulating us for so long that all of the 3:04:07.520 --> 3:04:11.400 relationships that he needs are breaking down and it's no 3:04:11.480 --> 3:04:13.840 longer a position where because he's the guy with the 3:04:13.879 --> 3:04:15.760 money in the arms and the coordination, everyone has to 3:04:15.800 --> 3:04:17.360 work with him. They now have a choice to like 3:04:17.959 --> 3:04:21.680 go do literally anything else, and everyone keeps walking away, 3:04:21.720 --> 3:04:24.800 and it like almost gets mon Mathama killed because she's 3:04:25.000 --> 3:04:27.040 so pissed at him that he's been like spy having 3:04:27.120 --> 3:04:27.920 her spye. 3:04:27.640 --> 3:04:31.800 On, but it it also saves her, Like it's it's 3:04:31.879 --> 3:04:34.039 it's it's a double right. 3:04:34.240 --> 3:04:37.320 It does seem distrust with Mon, but it also. 3:04:37.280 --> 3:04:40.120 Is what God because it is it is him who 3:04:40.240 --> 3:04:43.160 gets Mom out. Yeah, and it's it's like it's just 3:04:43.200 --> 3:04:44.240 this like really messy. 3:04:44.440 --> 3:04:46.080 That's what makes them a good character is that he 3:04:46.200 --> 3:04:48.160 is both like he understands who he is. 3:04:48.760 --> 3:04:51.920 He's like fucked up and morally compromised and is obviously 3:04:52.080 --> 3:04:56.760 hashtag problematic, but it's also completely necessary within the plot 3:04:56.800 --> 3:05:00.160 that they've created. Yeah, and like somewhat defensible and like 3:05:00.240 --> 3:05:02.600 he knows that he's like fucked, Like he he says, 3:05:02.720 --> 3:05:03.640 like there's. 3:05:03.520 --> 3:05:04.360 No Yavin for me. 3:05:04.959 --> 3:05:06.600 I'm not going to have and I'm never going to 3:05:06.640 --> 3:05:08.600 see the sunrise, Like that's not what my role is. 3:05:08.680 --> 3:05:12.000 I have to be the asshole here, and yeah, it sucks. 3:05:12.040 --> 3:05:14.360 And we start to see like his fake Luthen like 3:05:14.480 --> 3:05:16.760 gallery persona is starting to collapse here too, Like yeah, 3:05:17.120 --> 3:05:19.040 this whole episode, he's not in his like wag, He's 3:05:19.080 --> 3:05:21.680 not in his like fancy clothes. He is like insurgent 3:05:21.760 --> 3:05:25.360 Luthen Like this, this this role that he's he's cultivated 3:05:25.360 --> 3:05:27.960 these past few years is no longer needed and it 3:05:28.040 --> 3:05:30.960 does have negative consequences. Yeah, Mon is not trusting him 3:05:31.480 --> 3:05:33.160 in this moment where she kind of really has to. 3:05:33.840 --> 3:05:35.840 Like Mon thinks that Luthan might just be trying to 3:05:35.920 --> 3:05:38.680 like protect himself, that Luthen might not actually care about 3:05:38.720 --> 3:05:41.680 Mont's own safety Cassie and is tired of always being 3:05:41.720 --> 3:05:44.040 a tool for someone else and is dealing with trauma 3:05:44.480 --> 3:05:47.800 and burnout and Erskine's just caught in the middle of 3:05:47.879 --> 3:05:52.040 this hole, this this whole ship storm and yeah, this 3:05:52.160 --> 3:05:53.400 is this is what makes it compelling. 3:05:53.480 --> 3:05:58.080 Yeah, yeah, absolutely, Yeah, it's just good character writing. We've 3:05:58.120 --> 3:06:00.560 all been bent by secrecy, is what he says. 3:06:01.200 --> 3:06:05.320 Yeah, and and by God he has. And there's there's 3:06:05.320 --> 3:06:07.680 a couple of really good moments in this that I 3:06:08.320 --> 3:06:11.440 don't want to skip over. There's the next Year in 3:06:11.840 --> 3:06:16.039 Next Year in Yavin moment between mon Mathma and Bail Arghana, 3:06:16.480 --> 3:06:21.440 which I saw someone on Twitter decree to be Zionist propaganda. 3:06:22.080 --> 3:06:25.360 I'm sorry, like that that is definitely based on next 3:06:25.440 --> 3:06:27.680 Year in Jerusalem, a term that has been in use 3:06:27.800 --> 3:06:30.680 for like way more than half of a millennia. That is, 3:06:31.200 --> 3:06:34.959 has nothing to do with Zionism. You're just being racist, 3:06:35.040 --> 3:06:38.160 I'm sorry. And it's a nice like it's a I think, 3:06:38.200 --> 3:06:41.200 a nice nod to the travails of like what we 3:06:41.280 --> 3:06:43.520 are seeing is like a diaspora, right, as people have 3:06:43.600 --> 3:06:45.879 to flee their homes to participate in the rebellion. 3:06:45.959 --> 3:06:46.039 Right. 3:06:46.040 --> 3:06:48.880 I think it's an appropriate kind of callback to real 3:06:48.959 --> 3:06:52.080 world history there and the line where I think that 3:06:52.280 --> 3:06:55.840 moment between her and Bail works really effectively and the 3:06:55.920 --> 3:06:58.480 thing that he's doing works really effectively. 3:06:59.000 --> 3:07:01.040 This interaction between her and Bail also shows like the 3:07:01.040 --> 3:07:04.080 difference between how Bail operates, Luthen operates because like Man 3:07:04.240 --> 3:07:08.320 asks Bail if he trust his people, like like if 3:07:08.360 --> 3:07:11.240 he trusts his extraction team, and he says like of course, yeah, 3:07:11.400 --> 3:07:13.000 but he but but he has to admit that he 3:07:13.080 --> 3:07:16.600 doesn't actually know them personally for for quote unquote safety, 3:07:17.000 --> 3:07:18.720 and like this is this is where it shows like 3:07:18.760 --> 3:07:22.920 the difference between someone like Bail, who's maybe less manipulative 3:07:23.080 --> 3:07:25.959 than Luthan, maybe a little bit less morally compromised than Luthen, 3:07:26.440 --> 3:07:29.760 but also in in moments like this, like in the 3:07:29.920 --> 3:07:32.600 in specific moments like this comes up a little bit 3:07:32.640 --> 3:07:35.760 short compared to Luthen's uh, like you know, semi semi 3:07:35.840 --> 3:07:40.280 like destructive and like bridge burning tactics, which which he 3:07:40.320 --> 3:07:43.400 which he openly describes as bridge burning. I think I 3:07:43.480 --> 3:07:47.400 think this episode like, are are there any bridges you 3:07:47.440 --> 3:07:50.080 haven't burned yet? Well, we're gonna deal with that soon. 3:07:51.240 --> 3:07:53.720 Yeah, we will be dealing with that soon. I would 3:07:53.800 --> 3:07:56.760 like to call out mon Mathma's face acting and both 3:07:56.760 --> 3:08:00.480 the scenes were casting and just immediately domes some motherfuckers. 3:08:00.040 --> 3:08:03.040 WHI jack my god, incredible stuff. 3:08:03.480 --> 3:08:07.120 She's like, she's she's known intellectually and it's even hit 3:08:07.200 --> 3:08:10.000 her because she had a friend of hers killed, right, 3:08:10.080 --> 3:08:13.240 a former lover. She didn't order it, but it was 3:08:13.320 --> 3:08:15.080 done and she knew it was happening, So she's not 3:08:15.240 --> 3:08:17.760 she had to cope with it, totally naive. But the rebellions, 3:08:17.800 --> 3:08:20.880 I would argue, not fully real to her until she 3:08:21.000 --> 3:08:23.160 sees a man shot through the brains. 3:08:24.080 --> 3:08:27.280 It's funny because she, like like minutes earlier, has a 3:08:27.320 --> 3:08:30.360 line where she's like, like, hiding in this set it 3:08:30.440 --> 3:08:32.600 this whole time, will have been the hardest thing we've 3:08:32.640 --> 3:08:35.240 ever done, and then it's immediately faced with the lethal 3:08:35.320 --> 3:08:36.800 consequences for her actions. 3:08:37.360 --> 3:08:39.200 Yeah, it's like I don't know, I don't know. It's 3:08:39.440 --> 3:08:39.840 much worse. 3:08:40.040 --> 3:08:42.040 Well, and it's also like interesting too because it's like 3:08:42.120 --> 3:08:46.480 the second person she's seen shot in this episode, right, 3:08:46.480 --> 3:08:48.800 because like there's also like the first I s P 3:08:48.920 --> 3:08:49.800 Agent who they have shot. 3:08:49.840 --> 3:08:53.280 But it's like she doesn't know the person someone she knows, right, No, 3:08:53.440 --> 3:08:56.119 it's just like some cop and the known Chlorus for years. 3:08:56.160 --> 3:08:56.840 Yeah. 3:08:57.240 --> 3:08:59.480 Yeah, and she's just watched her just like ye nope 3:09:00.040 --> 3:09:03.080 and the way and it just instantly he's like yea media. Yeah, 3:09:03.360 --> 3:09:05.599 She's like, oh shit, would have I gotten myself. 3:09:05.280 --> 3:09:09.240 Into Nton's strongest soldiers, killed two undercover I s B. 3:09:09.400 --> 3:09:14.400 This episode give them my hand, folks, Yeah, no, this 3:09:14.560 --> 3:09:17.160 is this is a really a really, a really sleek episode. 3:09:17.520 --> 3:09:21.360 I do like that that like bails, like Infiltrator, has 3:09:21.440 --> 3:09:24.200 like a real is b look to her face. As 3:09:24.240 --> 3:09:26.920 soon as I saw that actress, I'm like that one 3:09:27.000 --> 3:09:30.359 has got to be the undercover I s B right, yeah, yeah. 3:09:30.200 --> 3:09:31.560 Yeah, she just got that. 3:09:31.600 --> 3:09:35.160 Fabulou has said, ib jaw very good. 3:09:36.400 --> 3:09:38.320 There's one thing I'd like to bring up at the 3:09:38.360 --> 3:09:41.240 end of these episodes. It's kind of a callback to 3:09:41.320 --> 3:09:43.920 the very first episode of the show. Is the first 3:09:43.959 --> 3:09:47.520 time we see our boy Cyril. He's just convinced that 3:09:47.680 --> 3:09:50.120 something is and people I've seen people point out Seria 3:09:50.160 --> 3:09:51.920 was actually really good at his job. He points this 3:09:52.040 --> 3:09:54.240 out that like I salved a murder in two days, right, 3:09:54.320 --> 3:09:56.440 he figured out who had who had killed these officers 3:09:56.560 --> 3:09:59.640 very quickly. And one of my favorite little undercutting of 3:09:59.760 --> 3:10:02.240 series points is that his boss solves it even faster, 3:10:02.879 --> 3:10:05.680 like in that first conversation, because his boss is an 3:10:05.760 --> 3:10:08.720 older guy, he's a corporate cop. He clearly has been 3:10:08.800 --> 3:10:12.000 doing whatever he's been doing since probably before the Clone Wars. Right, 3:10:12.080 --> 3:10:14.959 he's been nearer the end of his career than the beginning, 3:10:15.440 --> 3:10:17.200 and he doesn't like the Empire. 3:10:17.560 --> 3:10:17.720 Right. 3:10:18.120 --> 3:10:20.240 He's not even that much of a law and order guy. 3:10:20.360 --> 3:10:22.160 He's more of a get through the day and do 3:10:22.320 --> 3:10:25.400 my fucking job guy. When Cyril brings up Cassie and 3:10:25.480 --> 3:10:28.440 killing these cops, he's like, yeah, man, they're at a brothel. 3:10:28.640 --> 3:10:31.160 I know their salaries. They can't afford that. They were 3:10:31.200 --> 3:10:33.800 shaking people down. They shake the wrong guy down and 3:10:33.840 --> 3:10:36.520 they got killed. Best to ignore it. You don't want 3:10:36.560 --> 3:10:40.920 the Empire over here. And every aspect of Cyril's life 3:10:40.959 --> 3:10:42.840 would have been better if he'd listened to this guy 3:10:43.160 --> 3:10:45.800 who I'm sure spins the rest of the empire, sitting 3:10:45.879 --> 3:10:49.080 on like barely notices the end of things. You know, 3:10:49.360 --> 3:10:52.440 he's probably retired by then. Just a shout out to 3:10:52.520 --> 3:10:56.119 the smartest, the smartest guy in security services we meet 3:10:56.200 --> 3:10:59.400 over the course of these entire series, that old dude 3:10:59.400 --> 3:11:01.360 at the desk. She was like, not worth it, not 3:11:01.440 --> 3:11:06.160 getting into it. Yeah, I wouldn't ask anybody anything. A 3:11:08.160 --> 3:11:12.320 poor poor Cyle, what a little weasel Leah. And he 3:11:12.840 --> 3:11:14.440 fucked up. He fucked up bad. 3:11:15.480 --> 3:11:18.200 I love I always love being in the Senate. She 3:11:18.320 --> 3:11:22.480 does call the Gordon massacre a genocide, performs a whole speech, 3:11:22.959 --> 3:11:28.120 very very solid acting as usual, genevievel Riley fantastic work 3:11:28.240 --> 3:11:29.880 as Asma on this entire season. 3:11:30.320 --> 3:11:33.240 Everyone's great. God damn. Oh well, just talk a little 3:11:33.240 --> 3:11:36.439 bit about Deadri's breakdown after the Gorman. 3:11:36.200 --> 3:11:39.279 Master Yeah in episode eighth, Yeah, yeah. 3:11:39.200 --> 3:11:41.080 Yeah, which also does fit into the whole who are 3:11:41.120 --> 3:11:44.640 you thing where we see that she's not like a 3:11:45.120 --> 3:11:49.600 complete sociopath, right, She's not absolutely devoid of horror over 3:11:49.720 --> 3:11:52.880 what she's doing. She's just willing to accept the horror 3:11:53.040 --> 3:11:55.680 in order to get what she wants out of life, 3:11:56.240 --> 3:11:58.240 which I think is just like a much more realistic 3:11:58.280 --> 3:12:00.320 portrayal of human evil than we tend to get. 3:12:00.879 --> 3:12:01.080 Yeah. 3:12:01.480 --> 3:12:03.199 She she finds ways to cope and justify. 3:12:03.480 --> 3:12:05.680 Yeah, And like you know, Lonnie is having to find 3:12:05.720 --> 3:12:07.800 ways to cope and justify, but he's doing that through 3:12:07.840 --> 3:12:10.640 being a double agent and feeding and feeding Luthen, like 3:12:10.879 --> 3:12:14.280 very very important intel as we see in this episode 3:12:14.320 --> 3:12:17.800 and the next let's see. I think this is this 3:12:17.959 --> 3:12:20.600 is most of what I what I had on on 3:12:20.840 --> 3:12:24.760 on thisisode. Oh yeah, I mean, BIXI Bix bricks up 3:12:24.760 --> 3:12:27.240 with Cassian to force Cassian to stay in the U 3:12:27.760 --> 3:12:29.440 in the Alliance, even though he's probably not gonna be 3:12:29.440 --> 3:12:31.800 working with Luthen again. I'll have more to say about 3:12:31.800 --> 3:12:33.080 Bis next week, I guess. 3:12:33.680 --> 3:12:37.480 Yeah, yeah, I mean, I I have a lot to 3:12:37.560 --> 3:12:40.080 say about this, but I think we'll wait until last 3:12:40.160 --> 3:12:43.400 episode to fully discuss BIX. I think that's probably best. 3:12:43.760 --> 3:12:43.960 Yeah. 3:12:44.080 --> 3:12:47.960 Ye, But but this, this batch specifically, I think is 3:12:48.360 --> 3:12:52.080 some is some real solid, real solid so is Wow 3:12:52.840 --> 3:12:53.520 Star Wars. 3:12:53.840 --> 3:12:56.600 The stars have never been more wars, Garrison, the stars 3:12:56.640 --> 3:12:59.160 have never been more wars? Can all agree on that? 3:13:22.920 --> 3:13:24.760 I will get way too mad if I talk about 3:13:24.800 --> 3:13:27.960 the DNC anymore in this preamble. This is It could 3:13:28.000 --> 3:13:32.119 happen here Executive Disorder, our weekly newscast covering what's happening 3:13:32.160 --> 3:13:34.200 in the White House, the crumbling world, and what it 3:13:34.240 --> 3:13:36.480 means for you. I'm Garrison Davis today. I'm joined by 3:13:36.680 --> 3:13:40.439 James Stout, Mia Wong, and Robert Evans. Right, everybody, this episode, 3:13:40.560 --> 3:13:45.039 we are covering the week of May eighth through May fifteenth. 3:13:45.680 --> 3:13:48.800 Trump gets bribed by cutter, Stephen Miller wants to suspend 3:13:48.879 --> 3:13:52.760 Habeas Corpus and a Twitch streamer gets interrogated at the border. 3:13:53.560 --> 3:13:54.560 How are we doing, fellas? 3:13:55.640 --> 3:14:00.640 Uh, I don't know bad Like every time I'm. 3:14:00.480 --> 3:14:05.480 Not talking to a border patrol willingly and yeah, that's 3:14:05.520 --> 3:14:07.600 what I'm doing that I'm not doing. I'm staying the 3:14:07.640 --> 3:14:08.760 fuck away from the border. 3:14:08.840 --> 3:14:11.440 Although it's also impossible to say the fuck away from 3:14:11.480 --> 3:14:13.879 the border because like ninety percent of the country lives 3:14:13.959 --> 3:14:17.920 technically within the patrols from met Yeah. 3:14:18.040 --> 3:14:19.960 Yeah, but if you are happening to go to the 3:14:20.000 --> 3:14:22.360 border and you do get stopped by law enforcement, you 3:14:22.360 --> 3:14:24.560 should not talk to them. You should You should say 3:14:24.600 --> 3:14:27.840 that you're staying silent and will only speak with a lawyer. 3:14:28.040 --> 3:14:30.600 You have certain things that you have to say, right 3:14:30.840 --> 3:14:33.000 if they decide to talk to you about something other 3:14:33.120 --> 3:14:35.920 than you know, here's my passport, et cetera. Do I 3:14:36.000 --> 3:14:38.119 have anything to declare? Which you do have to answer 3:14:38.720 --> 3:14:42.000 if they attempt to engage you in other conversation about, say, 3:14:42.040 --> 3:14:45.320 your political beliefs. All you have to say is am 3:14:45.400 --> 3:14:48.800 I being detained? And if they say yes, you say, 3:14:49.160 --> 3:14:51.360 I plead the fifth and I demand to speak to 3:14:51.440 --> 3:14:54.760 a lawyer, and then nothing else. There's nothing else you say. 3:14:55.240 --> 3:14:57.000 That's how you should handle this situation. 3:14:57.560 --> 3:15:01.040 Yeah, you definitely do not need to debate your politics. 3:15:01.360 --> 3:15:03.720 Not required with the border patrol. 3:15:03.959 --> 3:15:08.920 Tell them how you feel about Potestine. That's yeah, not 3:15:09.080 --> 3:15:09.520 gonna end. 3:15:09.560 --> 3:15:14.520 Well, no, not necessary, And yeah, like it's one of 3:15:14.600 --> 3:15:16.840 those things I have no desire to like get into 3:15:17.080 --> 3:15:20.440 an online beef with the fellow who got stopped. He 3:15:20.760 --> 3:15:23.320 is a big boy and able to make his own choices. 3:15:23.760 --> 3:15:26.320 But I do not recommend you make those same choices, 3:15:26.400 --> 3:15:30.840 because there's no actual benefit to you in doing that, right, Yeah, yeah, 3:15:30.879 --> 3:15:32.920 don't coalk the cops. It's very easy to not talk 3:15:32.920 --> 3:15:35.200 to the cops. I'm doing it right now. Uh huh, 3:15:35.400 --> 3:15:39.080 that's what you think, trivially easy. Yeah, it's it's it's 3:15:39.120 --> 3:15:42.560 simple and unnecessary, and it's just like largely the problem 3:15:42.640 --> 3:15:45.119 is that and this is even something that he talked 3:15:45.120 --> 3:15:47.360 about where like, well, the guy seemed really nice and 3:15:47.440 --> 3:15:50.080 he apologetic and like he didn't want to have to 3:15:50.160 --> 3:15:53.200 do this. And if you're having a conversation like that 3:15:53.360 --> 3:15:56.760 with them, then they're getting what they want out of it, 3:15:56.879 --> 3:16:00.120 which is for you to feel like that right, for 3:16:00.240 --> 3:16:03.840 you to feel like, oh okay, this guy's this guy's nice, 3:16:04.040 --> 3:16:05.800 I can chat with him for a little while you 3:16:05.840 --> 3:16:09.520 feel safe enough to talk. Yeah, yes, that's their entire job, 3:16:09.640 --> 3:16:10.880 that's what they're trying to get you to do. 3:16:11.879 --> 3:16:14.120 Yeah, and again like this is this is specifically if 3:16:14.160 --> 3:16:15.720 you are, like a US citizen coming to re enter 3:16:15.760 --> 3:16:20.160 the country. There's there's different different rules and different different 3:16:20.200 --> 3:16:22.680 suggestions which you should talk with an immigration lawyer about 3:16:22.680 --> 3:16:23.840 if you were not a US citizen. 3:16:23.959 --> 3:16:26.800 Yes, yes, not advice for people who are coming here 3:16:26.840 --> 3:16:28.880 and not citizens. Yeah, yeah, none of this is. 3:16:29.360 --> 3:16:31.360 But yeah, you really really do not need to get 3:16:31.360 --> 3:16:34.400 into a debate with the border guard about your politics 3:16:34.680 --> 3:16:36.480 when you're trying to enter the country. 3:16:36.560 --> 3:16:41.440 Or any other time. Really just just don't really any time. Yeah, 3:16:41.879 --> 3:16:43.680 there's no point in time in which that's useful to 3:16:43.760 --> 3:16:45.960 you or anyone else. You ain't changing doing it. 3:16:46.600 --> 3:16:47.080 Maybe do it. 3:16:47.160 --> 3:16:50.920 Maybe there's more to politics than debate. No, speaking of 3:16:51.080 --> 3:16:56.560 more to politics, the PKK, what's going on with the PKK, fellas. 3:16:56.959 --> 3:16:59.080 We should, we should give a brief overview of who 3:16:59.120 --> 3:17:03.720 the PKK is is. The PKK is the Kurdish Workers Party, 3:17:04.080 --> 3:17:08.120 and it is originally a maoist and now not that 3:17:08.680 --> 3:17:11.920 terrorist group. That's legally how it's defined by the United 3:17:11.959 --> 3:17:15.560 States and by most Western countries. That was started in 3:17:15.680 --> 3:17:18.600 southern Turkey like in the late seventies, close to fifty 3:17:18.680 --> 3:17:22.080 years ago, and it started out as a rather different 3:17:22.240 --> 3:17:25.320 kind of organization than it is. It's one of its 3:17:25.360 --> 3:17:28.760 founders and generally the guy referred to as its founder 3:17:28.760 --> 3:17:31.640 as a dude named of the la Aujalon or Oppo 3:17:32.280 --> 3:17:36.160 who got captioned Kenya a few decades back and has 3:17:36.200 --> 3:17:40.480 been in a Turkish prison ever since, but does continue 3:17:40.560 --> 3:17:44.640 to like write stuff that informs because there's kind of 3:17:44.680 --> 3:17:48.360 this strong Maoist core at the heart of the foundation 3:17:48.560 --> 3:17:51.240 of the party continues to have a lot of influence 3:17:51.280 --> 3:17:53.600 over it. And this is the root of kind of 3:17:53.800 --> 3:17:56.960 the different organizations that sprung out and became what we 3:17:57.040 --> 3:18:00.640 call Rajava. Is this group that kind of came in 3:18:01.040 --> 3:18:06.200 during Isis's invasion and you know, had changed significantly from 3:18:06.240 --> 3:18:09.480 its MAOIs roots at that point, and kind of from 3:18:09.760 --> 3:18:12.960 the PKK, we get the YPG and the YPJ and 3:18:13.320 --> 3:18:19.040 you know, these different social and militant movements in Northeast Syria. Anyway, Yeah, 3:18:19.360 --> 3:18:23.480 they would dispute the from the PKK, they sure would. Yes, 3:18:25.840 --> 3:18:29.440 the robots for a good legal reason. Yes, yes, but 3:18:29.520 --> 3:18:30.080 they're all. 3:18:30.040 --> 3:18:32.840 Inspired by the political thought of oyser Land, right, Like 3:18:32.959 --> 3:18:35.600 we can say that safely. Yeah, and Ouserland, I guess 3:18:35.800 --> 3:18:38.840 addressed by video the twelfth Congress of the PKK which 3:18:38.879 --> 3:18:44.160 occurred earlier this month, at which they voted to disband 3:18:44.280 --> 3:18:48.840 themselves and lay down their arms. So that's the d 3:18:48.879 --> 3:18:52.600 A meeting, right, they get together. Obviously it seems that 3:18:52.720 --> 3:18:55.800 Turkey decided not to ask strike that meeting. Turkey has 3:18:55.840 --> 3:18:58.520 been carrying out strikes against the PKK in three different 3:18:58.560 --> 3:19:02.680 countries for decades, and sort of small arms engagements as well, 3:19:02.760 --> 3:19:05.520 and artillery in the whole nine yards. So yeah, at 3:19:05.560 --> 3:19:08.840 that conference they decided to lay down their arms and 3:19:09.000 --> 3:19:14.120 begin disbanding themselves and return to They're still pursuing their 3:19:14.120 --> 3:19:17.400 struggle I guess, for freedom for Kedistan. 3:19:17.200 --> 3:19:21.480 But this time through the democratic process. Yeah. We're going 3:19:21.520 --> 3:19:26.600 to cover this subject in more detail on Tuesday next Tuesday. 3:19:27.200 --> 3:19:29.680 But suffice it to say, like this does not mean 3:19:30.080 --> 3:19:33.960 that like the PKK is like that all of the 3:19:34.120 --> 3:19:37.480 kind of different movements that came out of and were 3:19:37.560 --> 3:19:40.920 inspired by the PKK are like folding up and setting 3:19:41.360 --> 3:19:45.320 up shop. This is more of a pragmatic decision made 3:19:45.360 --> 3:19:47.920 as the result of the changes of situations on the 3:19:48.000 --> 3:19:50.160 ground and the progress that a number of these other 3:19:50.240 --> 3:19:53.840 movements have made. And yeah, this is worthy of deeper discussion. 3:19:53.879 --> 3:19:56.680 We'll give a deeper discussion. But this is something that's 3:19:56.760 --> 3:19:59.600 going to hopefully at least mean that Turkey spends less 3:19:59.640 --> 3:20:03.320 time northern Iraq, although that it may be foolish to 3:20:03.400 --> 3:20:04.280 hope too much for that. 3:20:05.560 --> 3:20:07.640 Do you love to bumble an Iraq? I guess they're 3:20:07.680 --> 3:20:10.160 calling it there like good Friday moments. So people who 3:20:10.160 --> 3:20:11.920 are familiar with the Irish situation. 3:20:12.120 --> 3:20:16.879 Yeah, when the ira was like, maybe we've done enough. 3:20:18.800 --> 3:20:22.600 And significantly when there were releases of people who were incarcerated. 3:20:22.080 --> 3:20:24.560 Right, right, and the British government did make some significant 3:20:24.600 --> 3:20:25.280 concessions too. 3:20:25.400 --> 3:20:28.480 Yes, so we will learn more of there were concessions 3:20:28.520 --> 3:20:30.360 involved in this process or if it was a kind 3:20:30.360 --> 3:20:31.200 of unilateral thing. 3:20:31.520 --> 3:20:34.359 Yeah, there's a lot of rumors again, just to go briefly, 3:20:34.520 --> 3:20:39.119 that the Turkish government essentially needs that aired one essentially 3:20:39.200 --> 3:20:42.440 needs some of the support of the Kurdish parties in 3:20:42.600 --> 3:20:46.560 order to maintain keep doing Erdawan shit. So again we'll 3:20:46.600 --> 3:20:47.200 see on all that. 3:20:47.640 --> 3:20:53.520 Yep, speaking of not blowing each other up. India and Pakistan, well, yeah, 3:20:54.200 --> 3:20:57.320 slightly blowing lightly blowing each other up. Can we say 3:20:57.360 --> 3:21:00.480 that without minimizing it, because yeah, there's some fens and 3:21:00.560 --> 3:21:01.080 blowing up. 3:21:01.560 --> 3:21:03.000 Yeah, so let's let's talk about this. 3:21:03.400 --> 3:21:03.480 Uh. 3:21:03.840 --> 3:21:07.959 We are thankfully no longer on nuclear war watch, which 3:21:08.000 --> 3:21:08.400 is great. 3:21:09.200 --> 3:21:13.800 Put on pause. It's all cool, everything's fine. 3:21:14.920 --> 3:21:17.039 I was I was talking with a read last night 3:21:17.080 --> 3:21:21.560 about whenever this sort of confrontation happens. One of the 3:21:21.720 --> 3:21:24.720 nice things about a globalist world order is that if 3:21:24.760 --> 3:21:26.400 the rest of the world goes. 3:21:26.640 --> 3:21:32.320 Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa Hello, who come on now, it 3:21:32.520 --> 3:21:33.279 kind of works. 3:21:34.560 --> 3:21:37.160 Pull him back, hold me back, bro China got a 3:21:37.240 --> 3:21:43.880 hand on pakistans es. It's not worth it. They're not 3:21:44.000 --> 3:21:46.680 worth it. That's the role of the United Nations. Jade 3:21:46.720 --> 3:21:49.160 E Vance like massaging India's shoulders. 3:21:49.200 --> 3:21:50.520 I know, man, I know, but it's. 3:21:52.560 --> 3:21:52.840 Whatever. 3:21:53.000 --> 3:21:53.280 Whatever. 3:21:53.360 --> 3:21:57.040 Things get really spicy between two equal powers. If one 3:21:57.080 --> 3:22:00.120 of their buddies just can go hey, hey, dude, whoa whoa, Oh, 3:22:01.000 --> 3:22:03.000 it kind of works, which is a little bit silly, 3:22:03.080 --> 3:22:04.039 but yeah, yeah, just. 3:22:04.120 --> 3:22:06.760 Remind everyone in charge, do you know how rich you are? 3:22:06.920 --> 3:22:10.440 Come on, you don't want this like you've got hot 3:22:10.520 --> 3:22:12.440 tubs in your manshin, it ain't worth it. 3:22:14.280 --> 3:22:17.640 Yeah, foreign politics, so much of it is just so 3:22:17.879 --> 3:22:23.160 unbelievably stupid, Like it is just like weird nationalist masculinity bullshit, 3:22:23.200 --> 3:22:25.040 where it's like, okay, so we killed some of your 3:22:25.080 --> 3:22:26.879 your people, and then you're gonna kill some of our people, 3:22:26.920 --> 3:22:29.680 and then we can both agree that we like retaliated, 3:22:29.800 --> 3:22:31.879 neither of us back down, and then we'll do a ceasefire. 3:22:32.360 --> 3:22:34.240 So the good news here is that we did actually 3:22:34.280 --> 3:22:36.680 get a ceasefire. The ceasefire was holding, and it's continued 3:22:36.720 --> 3:22:39.440 to hold. This is not like a kind of like 3:22:39.600 --> 3:22:42.040 Israel Palace and cease fire where the Israelis immediately just 3:22:42.080 --> 3:22:45.640 start like shooting everyone an instant later. This is actually holding. 3:22:46.400 --> 3:22:48.760 It's good, it will probably continue to hold. We got 3:22:48.800 --> 3:22:51.360 some more details from Reuters who talked to a bunch 3:22:51.440 --> 3:22:58.000 of officials from different camps. But we know now we're 3:22:58.040 --> 3:22:59.959 gonna do a longer episode about this next week. 3:23:00.440 --> 3:23:03.039 Tuesday. Yeah, all the walls on Tuesday. 3:23:03.320 --> 3:23:05.720 Probably Tuesday, unless, like I don't know, like some other 3:23:06.120 --> 3:23:08.200 shit happens. Who knows, I don't I don't want to 3:23:08.240 --> 3:23:09.640 ever promise an episode's. 3:23:09.280 --> 3:23:10.480 Going out of a day because. 3:23:10.840 --> 3:23:14.280 Tuesday or Wednesday, because it's like like we could we 3:23:14.320 --> 3:23:17.000 could wake up to Trump is likely Trump has like 3:23:17.040 --> 3:23:19.440 declared that like his meme coin is now the official 3:23:19.480 --> 3:23:21.959 currency of the United States or something like who. 3:23:21.879 --> 3:23:25.200 Knows, you say, or Wednesday, we'll say, yeah. Yeah. So 3:23:25.440 --> 3:23:29.240 what's used to have happened that really escalated everything is 3:23:29.280 --> 3:23:33.440 that India fired on a critical Pakistani air base and 3:23:33.959 --> 3:23:36.720 Pakistan was like, all right, gotta go fucking sick on 3:23:36.800 --> 3:23:40.720 mode now, and so they do their retaliation. India appears 3:23:40.800 --> 3:23:43.880 to not have understood exactly how pissed off Pakistan was 3:23:43.920 --> 3:23:46.360 going to be about them hitting this airbase, which also, 3:23:46.480 --> 3:23:49.040 like you would, I don't know what their military planning is, 3:23:49.080 --> 3:23:50.000 like you would assume. 3:23:49.840 --> 3:23:52.280 Trees normally love it when you hit their air bases. 3:23:52.720 --> 3:23:53.000 Whatever. 3:23:54.000 --> 3:23:56.560 Ran at Area fifty one, Yeah, like what are we 3:23:56.640 --> 3:23:57.640 doing here? What are we doing here? 3:23:58.520 --> 3:24:01.280 But the thing that does seem to have worked is 3:24:01.360 --> 3:24:03.600 that Mark or Rubio seems to have actually been like 3:24:03.959 --> 3:24:06.640 able to kind of pass information along between the advance 3:24:06.760 --> 3:24:10.120 was also sort of involved. It seemed mostly like Rubio 3:24:10.280 --> 3:24:13.279 was able to pass a thing to the Pakistani government, 3:24:13.400 --> 3:24:16.760 being like, hey, the Indians are gonna stop. And the 3:24:16.840 --> 3:24:19.240 Pakistani government was like, yeah. 3:24:19.520 --> 3:24:22.959 Yeah, right, right, but this is getting done. 3:24:23.200 --> 3:24:26.000 We did our retaliatory attacks, like we fucked up. 3:24:25.920 --> 3:24:30.040 A bunch of expensive jets. Like that is key is 3:24:30.120 --> 3:24:33.240 that everybody can sort of this didn't go on so 3:24:33.480 --> 3:24:38.520 far that that like everyone has a lot to avenge, 3:24:38.720 --> 3:24:41.960 and it went on enough that everybody can claim some wins. 3:24:42.000 --> 3:24:44.240 Pakistan could be like, we really did some damage to 3:24:44.320 --> 3:24:47.480 India's best chunk of their air force, and India can 3:24:47.600 --> 3:24:51.440 be like, we blew up some stuff you know, everybody's got. 3:24:52.440 --> 3:24:54.560 If you if you don't have enough information to know 3:24:54.720 --> 3:24:58.200 that like nobody really won, you can pretend you did, right, 3:24:58.520 --> 3:24:59.840 And that's what both of them are doing. 3:25:00.400 --> 3:25:02.000 Yeah, And I think this was this one were talking 3:25:02.040 --> 3:25:03.920 about this last week, like that the best case scenario 3:25:04.400 --> 3:25:06.160 for this is actually I kind of better than the 3:25:06.160 --> 3:25:08.280 best case scenario I was thinking of. I mean, not 3:25:08.400 --> 3:25:10.160 this is like none of this is a good outcome, 3:25:10.280 --> 3:25:13.040 but the outcome here of like it's like a very 3:25:13.120 --> 3:25:16.640 abbreviated version of like an Israel iron thing where they 3:25:16.640 --> 3:25:19.600 shoot each other a few times and then stop. Hopefully 3:25:19.680 --> 3:25:22.400 this will continue to hold and hopefully both sides will 3:25:22.800 --> 3:25:24.280 not take this, and this is something that they were 3:25:24.280 --> 3:25:26.560 talking about. One of the experts that we're just talking 3:25:26.600 --> 3:25:29.480 to were talking about was like, hopefully both sides don't 3:25:29.560 --> 3:25:31.760 see this as a like, oh, we can have conflict 3:25:31.760 --> 3:25:34.600 between two nuclear empowers and it'll be okay. Hopefully both 3:25:34.640 --> 3:25:36.760 sides are going to be like this was very dumb, 3:25:37.200 --> 3:25:41.560 but right now it seems to be over. The ceasefires holding. 3:25:42.480 --> 3:25:43.680 Hopefully more people don't die. 3:25:44.040 --> 3:25:44.240 Yep. 3:25:44.680 --> 3:25:47.120 Yeah, the Dessault stug price though, that that took a 3:25:47.240 --> 3:25:49.959 foul after all shut down. 3:25:50.000 --> 3:25:52.800 That's kind of funny. You know what else is funny? 3:25:53.800 --> 3:25:58.400 Hopefully the russ Ads. Yeah, this podcast nice one. 3:25:58.520 --> 3:26:00.600 Yeah, that's why they pay me the baud ocre books. 3:26:14.200 --> 3:26:19.760 Uh yeah, welcome back to something ed. If you have ed, 3:26:20.240 --> 3:26:26.880 please consider him sent Cutter, I hardly okay, sorry now, Garrison, 3:26:26.920 --> 3:26:28.080 I'm so proud of you, buddy. 3:26:29.240 --> 3:26:31.120 That was the right thing to say. That was the 3:26:31.280 --> 3:26:32.080 right thing to say. 3:26:32.920 --> 3:26:36.039 Ahead of Trump's planned trip to the Middle East, Cutter 3:26:36.160 --> 3:26:39.480 has offered a gift to President Trump, a four hundred 3:26:39.640 --> 3:26:43.840 million dollar Boeing seven forty seven eight luxury jet known 3:26:43.920 --> 3:26:48.080 as a Palace in the Sky, which Trump does plan 3:26:48.240 --> 3:26:49.119 to accept. 3:26:48.800 --> 3:26:50.480 Which a stupid fucking plan. 3:26:52.480 --> 3:26:54.400 You gotta flick up a picture of this thing. It 3:26:54.560 --> 3:26:59.040 is absurd, and I gotta say, honestly, my primary thoughts, 3:26:59.120 --> 3:27:01.800 I know they should be like offense and anger, but 3:27:02.040 --> 3:27:03.400 most they're mostly ah cutter. 3:27:03.520 --> 3:27:07.000 You know the assignment. You knew exactly this man can't 3:27:07.080 --> 3:27:10.280 turn down a luxury palace plane. Of course, it's not. 3:27:11.480 --> 3:27:14.200 Someone should off from the fucking snow piercer. You know 3:27:14.280 --> 3:27:16.120 it's all gold up in there. It is. 3:27:16.400 --> 3:27:18.800 It is all gold up in there. Actually, you can 3:27:18.879 --> 3:27:23.320 look it up. It absolutely is. I don't need to 3:27:23.480 --> 3:27:26.920 garrison in my in my mind palace, I've already seen 3:27:27.120 --> 3:27:33.120 the Okay, hit me with the leak. 3:27:33.240 --> 3:27:35.520 Why did we allow this to be constructed? Because it's 3:27:35.600 --> 3:27:38.840 it's one of those things. This is not this like again, 3:27:39.120 --> 3:27:41.360 should it not be legal for Trump to do this? 3:27:41.640 --> 3:27:44.000 Is it not legal for Trump to do this? Of course? 3:27:44.400 --> 3:27:47.840 Is it physically possible for the man Donald Trump to 3:27:48.000 --> 3:27:49.520 say no to this plane? 3:27:49.840 --> 3:27:49.960 Now? 3:27:50.400 --> 3:27:52.840 No, no, that never was in the carts. 3:27:53.360 --> 3:27:55.600 This this is a temple to the defeat of the 3:27:55.680 --> 3:27:57.039 International Workers Movement. 3:27:57.560 --> 3:28:01.920 Jesus, I want to see pitches of this plane. Someone 3:28:01.920 --> 3:28:05.119 to send me pitches the p oh oh good lord, 3:28:05.240 --> 3:28:07.200 oh good lord. Okay, I'm putting it. I mean it's 3:28:07.240 --> 3:28:08.400 exactly the plane you'd think. 3:28:08.520 --> 3:28:12.360 Yes, it's the most Trump thing you could ever imagine. Yeah, 3:28:12.560 --> 3:28:13.440 it's so funny. 3:28:14.160 --> 3:28:15.080 I'm so angry. 3:28:15.360 --> 3:28:17.880 It's just Trump tower in the sky, like you know, 3:28:18.040 --> 3:28:20.280 it's it's actually what I will say about that, Gere, 3:28:20.320 --> 3:28:23.640 is a Trump tower in the sky is like a 3:28:24.000 --> 3:28:29.320 ship built to look fancy to like tasteless Americans. The 3:28:29.400 --> 3:28:36.039 Katari versions actually is actually extremely nice. Yes, the Immirant 3:28:36.080 --> 3:28:38.560 of Qatar knows what they're fucking doing when it comes 3:28:38.600 --> 3:28:41.600 to interior design for fucking evil rich people. 3:28:42.160 --> 3:28:44.920 This you could have had this if you replace the 3:28:45.360 --> 3:28:47.920 walls that are clearly a plane. This could have been 3:28:48.080 --> 3:28:50.480 like a set on and or from like a high 3:28:50.560 --> 3:28:54.120 level coruscant, like the person's house, like that's that's what 3:28:54.200 --> 3:28:56.880 we're talking. Especially that like room with the elevator in 3:28:56.959 --> 3:28:59.720 the middle, like that's a set where mon Mathma yells 3:28:59.720 --> 3:29:01.640 at her like it's beautiful. 3:29:02.480 --> 3:29:05.320 So this plane would be used as a new Air 3:29:05.480 --> 3:29:10.800 Force one and after his term, Trump would retain ownership 3:29:10.959 --> 3:29:13.160 through his Presidential Library Foundation. 3:29:13.560 --> 3:29:16.720 Of course, that's so many. 3:29:16.600 --> 3:29:19.400 Issues with this, from like national security to like a 3:29:19.520 --> 3:29:24.600 very clear bribe. On Monday, Trump told reporters quote, I 3:29:24.680 --> 3:29:27.120 could be a stupid person and say no, we don't 3:29:27.200 --> 3:29:29.480 want to free very expensive airplane. 3:29:29.879 --> 3:29:32.200 I thought it was a great gesture. Unquote. 3:29:32.560 --> 3:29:38.240 Of course, of course what owned So what made a 3:29:38.320 --> 3:29:41.480 comment that like we received the Statue of Liberty as 3:29:41.520 --> 3:29:45.160 a gift. It's the same thing. 3:29:45.720 --> 3:29:47.080 Yeah, that's not really the same thing. 3:29:47.200 --> 3:29:51.360 Guys, If like it was Jeff, I don't know who 3:29:51.440 --> 3:29:53.360 is president went arrive, but if the president was living 3:29:53.400 --> 3:29:55.560 inside the Statue of Liberty, Chester, I think it was 3:29:55.640 --> 3:29:56.600 Chester aar there. 3:29:56.720 --> 3:29:59.279 Yeah, okay, yeah, I don't remember exactly. 3:29:59.560 --> 3:30:01.760 I you also love that Trump isn't making the same 3:30:01.920 --> 3:30:04.240 argument that like the old that Clinton supporters used to, 3:30:04.320 --> 3:30:05.720 which is like, well you can take money from a 3:30:05.760 --> 3:30:07.560 thing without being influenced by it, And like the New 3:30:07.680 --> 3:30:10.320 York Times is making this argument. They're like, well, just 3:30:10.400 --> 3:30:13.520 because people are are spending one million dollars to have 3:30:13.720 --> 3:30:16.120 dinner at a crypto thing with Trump doesn't mean that 3:30:16.560 --> 3:30:18.480 he's actually been influenced by the money, so you can't 3:30:18.520 --> 3:30:19.199 call it bribery. 3:30:19.280 --> 3:30:20.960 And I was like, this is great society. 3:30:21.320 --> 3:30:23.680 We love this, we love this. Just give him give 3:30:23.760 --> 3:30:25.039 give the president the fancy. 3:30:24.920 --> 3:30:25.640 Quinn pro what. 3:30:26.480 --> 3:30:28.640 Yeah, to be fair, Trump does have something of a 3:30:28.720 --> 3:30:31.400 history of entering into a financial contract with people and 3:30:31.480 --> 3:30:34.760 then totally abandoning his end of it, So you could 3:30:34.840 --> 3:30:35.760 you could make that up. 3:30:36.000 --> 3:30:38.400 Yeah, it's so bad Trump. 3:30:38.440 --> 3:30:41.879 They get into an argument with with ABC anchors when 3:30:41.920 --> 3:30:44.640 they asked him if he thought this could be seen 3:30:44.720 --> 3:30:45.360 as a bribe. 3:30:45.400 --> 3:30:46.760 I'll play a short clip here. 3:30:47.160 --> 3:30:49.680 Why you're saying people who view that luxury jet as 3:30:49.720 --> 3:30:51.160 a personal would get to you? 3:30:51.360 --> 3:30:55.320 Why not leave it your ABC? Fake news only ABC? 3:30:55.560 --> 3:30:58.000 Well a few of you would, let me tell you, 3:30:59.320 --> 3:31:02.640 you should be bad asking the question they're giving us 3:31:02.720 --> 3:31:05.280 a free jet, I could say, no, no, no, don't 3:31:05.320 --> 3:31:05.600 give us. 3:31:05.680 --> 3:31:08.080 I want to pay you a billion or four hundred 3:31:08.200 --> 3:31:11.280 million or whatever it is. Well, I could say thank 3:31:11.320 --> 3:31:15.240 you very much. You know those an all golfer named 3:31:15.280 --> 3:31:17.920 Sam Snay Did you ever hear me? One? ADQ terms 3:31:18.160 --> 3:31:18.960 was a great golfer. 3:31:19.800 --> 3:31:22.080 After that, he goes on to talk about golf for 3:31:22.240 --> 3:31:25.160 a whole minute, building an analogy based on making an 3:31:25.240 --> 3:31:28.400 easy putt on a golf course. I'm going to quote 3:31:28.400 --> 3:31:33.519 from BBC quote Attorney General Pambondi reportedly investigated the legality 3:31:33.600 --> 3:31:35.680 of the deal and determined that because there are no 3:31:35.920 --> 3:31:39.800 explicit conditions attached, it would not amount to a bribe. 3:31:40.400 --> 3:31:43.039 Conservatives and others were quick to point out that Bondi 3:31:43.200 --> 3:31:46.199 was registered as a lobbyist for Cutter prior to joining 3:31:46.240 --> 3:31:49.800 Trump's cabinet, at some point, earning up to one hundred 3:31:49.840 --> 3:31:53.440 and fifteen thousand dollars a month for her work for 3:31:53.560 --> 3:31:54.640 the Qatari government. 3:31:54.959 --> 3:31:57.680 Yeah, no, one's going to be like influenced by a 3:31:57.720 --> 3:32:00.720 mere one hundred and fourteen thousand dollars a month. You couldn't, 3:32:00.760 --> 3:32:04.040 for example, easily immediately so much money and get me 3:32:04.200 --> 3:32:08.080 to say everyone should buy a Chevy truck, the new Ram, 3:32:08.680 --> 3:32:12.280 that's the vehicle of the proletariat Ram. 3:32:12.879 --> 3:32:15.200 We know that this is fake because Robert would never 3:32:15.320 --> 3:32:17.560 knowingly endorse a Chevy product for. 3:32:17.560 --> 3:32:19.960 One hundred and fourteen thousand dollars. You think I wouldn't 3:32:19.959 --> 3:32:20.640 sell chevyes. 3:32:23.760 --> 3:32:26.240 But this is the most like corrupt administration we've ever 3:32:26.320 --> 3:32:29.040 seen before. It's absurd, like just completely like flying it 3:32:29.120 --> 3:32:31.840 in your face. Even ten Cruz said that this gift 3:32:31.920 --> 3:32:36.720 could could impose quote significant espionage and surveillance problems unquote 3:32:37.000 --> 3:32:38.560 because yeah, that plane. 3:32:38.440 --> 3:32:41.240 Is going to be so fun for thee Oh my god, 3:32:41.480 --> 3:32:46.119 how they're just the whole plane. It's a flying bug. 3:32:46.520 --> 3:32:47.560 It's so funny. 3:32:47.840 --> 3:32:51.640 Our government they're gonna listened to every Air Force one meeting. 3:32:52.080 --> 3:32:54.120 Not only are they going to listen into it, the 3:32:54.240 --> 3:32:57.240 guy whose job that is, Like, they've already been paying 3:32:57.240 --> 3:32:59.280 almost as much as the plane costs for him to 3:32:59.320 --> 3:33:02.560 get pre empt of therapy to listen to that many 3:33:02.680 --> 3:33:07.960 Trump inner circle conversations. The fucking Emir himself is putting 3:33:07.959 --> 3:33:10.400 a hand. I know, man, I know it's gonna be hard. 3:33:10.959 --> 3:33:12.880 Like we're all back, We're all behind you. 3:33:15.200 --> 3:33:18.960 Everyone from like Ben Shapiro to Laura Lumer have have 3:33:19.080 --> 3:33:23.040 opposed this de facto bribe as quote unquote sleazy, while 3:33:23.080 --> 3:33:26.320 also pointing to Cutter as a terrorist aligned state. 3:33:26.680 --> 3:33:30.720 Did you think your guy was? Come on, you watched 3:33:30.840 --> 3:33:34.080 Donald Trump. You believe me he's gonna take a golden 3:33:34.320 --> 3:33:35.400 palace in the sky. 3:33:35.959 --> 3:33:39.760 Come on, man, didn't they also wheel out a mobile 3:33:39.879 --> 3:33:42.120 McDonald's faming costa so he could do. 3:33:42.480 --> 3:33:46.120 That was in Saudi Arabia to Saudi Arabia, that was Arabia. 3:33:46.360 --> 3:33:49.199 They're also planning to possibly construct a new Trump Tower 3:33:49.320 --> 3:33:50.320 in Dubai. 3:33:50.840 --> 3:33:56.240 Su Honestly, both Dubai and Trump deserve that kind of 3:33:56.440 --> 3:33:59.320 like shade. Yeah, sure they belong together. 3:33:59.520 --> 3:34:01.840 Yeah, the people that Trump is negotiating with here just 3:34:02.080 --> 3:34:04.840 really know how to like get wins out of him, 3:34:05.040 --> 3:34:08.119 Like yeah, Trump Tower, here's a mobile McDonald. 3:34:08.280 --> 3:34:11.960 Here's a four million dollar free jet. They really have 3:34:12.160 --> 3:34:12.840 him on law. 3:34:13.360 --> 3:34:17.440 It's tragic because the mobile McDonald's and burger Kings used 3:34:17.480 --> 3:34:21.320 to be a sign of American like logistical dominance that 3:34:21.560 --> 3:34:24.520 like I was wondering if it had invaded it rock, 3:34:24.720 --> 3:34:28.200 like fuck our ability to like airstrike anyone anywhere. We 3:34:28.280 --> 3:34:31.440 can put a fully operational McDonald's anywhere on the planet 3:34:31.480 --> 3:34:33.920 in about sixteen hours, like no one else can do that. 3:34:35.000 --> 3:34:39.240 Yeah, we invaded a rock with burger King trailers, yes, yes. 3:34:39.280 --> 3:34:42.360 And to see it turned against our values so much. 3:34:42.600 --> 3:34:46.200 Is it's just deeply if no, I mean, I'm joking here, 3:34:46.360 --> 3:34:50.560 but it is funny. Speaking of foreign trade, what is 3:34:50.640 --> 3:34:53.840 that I hear? Is that is that the lucid melody 3:34:54.480 --> 3:34:57.000 of tariff reef Garrison. 3:35:00.680 --> 3:35:06.439 Locking jazz b locking jazz bot sorry, locking. 3:35:08.200 --> 3:35:11.480 Locking jazz rocking jazz Bob. 3:35:13.160 --> 3:35:15.560 We're all thinking about the best way we ever spent 3:35:15.720 --> 3:35:18.040 our company money. Every penny of that one hundred and 3:35:18.080 --> 3:35:21.000 fourteen thousand dollars a month Chevy gives us for telling 3:35:21.040 --> 3:35:23.200 people to buy the new Rams. It went to a 3:35:23.280 --> 3:35:23.840 good place. 3:35:24.520 --> 3:35:27.480 Yeah, just if we can just get one more automotive 3:35:27.520 --> 3:35:30.800 industry sponsor, then I can finally rewrite White Riot to 3:35:30.879 --> 3:35:32.640 be about white genocide in South Africa. 3:35:32.840 --> 3:35:36.080 That's right. We're courting Shell right now. So don't worry, James, 3:35:36.120 --> 3:35:38.120 We're gonna get that cover. But I'm glad to hear it. 3:35:39.160 --> 3:35:41.320 So I heard all the tariffs are gone, basically. I 3:35:41.400 --> 3:35:43.760 heard we're back to normal. Nothing ever happens. I can 3:35:43.840 --> 3:35:47.080 go back to buying Timu all day long. I can't 3:35:47.120 --> 3:35:52.560 stop playing those those TV gambling ads. And everything's normal, right, Mia. 3:35:53.879 --> 3:35:56.200 Okay, So let's let's let's where are we at with 3:35:56.280 --> 3:35:59.400 the turf tariffs? So there were actual negotiations between the 3:35:59.480 --> 3:36:03.119 US and Sharp and so they agreed to a ninety 3:36:03.200 --> 3:36:07.280 day pause on the one hundred and forty five percent 3:36:07.360 --> 3:36:11.200 tariff and the one hundred and twenty percent tariff that 3:36:11.280 --> 3:36:15.720 China had imposed retaliation. However, there's still thirty percent, like 3:36:15.800 --> 3:36:18.440 a tariffs on all Chinese goods, which is in and 3:36:18.560 --> 3:36:21.840 of itself alone enough to cause a recession. I just 3:36:21.920 --> 3:36:25.320 want everyone's Easter forgotten. This China's is back down to 3:36:25.520 --> 3:36:28.160 ten percent across the board on all us goods. Now again, 3:36:28.200 --> 3:36:31.040 this is a ninety day pause, which has been like 3:36:31.480 --> 3:36:33.200 this is just the way that all this functions now 3:36:33.320 --> 3:36:35.840 is nothing ever ends. It just gets kicked off like 3:36:35.959 --> 3:36:37.680 down the road for ninety days. So we'll be back 3:36:37.720 --> 3:36:41.000 here in ninety No, well, okay, we'll be back in 3:36:41.040 --> 3:36:44.080 the crisis zone a bit before that, because we're still 3:36:44.160 --> 3:36:46.920 on the other ninety day countdown, which the Liberation Day 3:36:46.959 --> 3:36:49.520 turf tariff one for every single country on Earth. 3:36:49.680 --> 3:36:52.880 Honestly, I don't think these countdowns are real, and I 3:36:53.040 --> 3:36:55.320 know this is like this is like different from the 3:36:55.400 --> 3:36:58.440 way like other commentators will talk about how these tariffs 3:36:58.440 --> 3:36:59.959 aren't really Like I'm not saying these tariffs aren't real. 3:37:00.400 --> 3:37:02.000 I don't know if there's someone in the White House 3:37:02.040 --> 3:37:04.760 who is literally counting down each day here like this. 3:37:05.280 --> 3:37:06.160 No, I think there is. 3:37:06.360 --> 3:37:09.280 I think I think it's Navarro, because Navarro actually wants 3:37:09.360 --> 3:37:12.080 all of these terriffs, and that's that's that's the driving 3:37:12.120 --> 3:37:15.440 thing behind this is Trump kind of wants these tariffs, 3:37:15.560 --> 3:37:17.840 but there's not enough of him there psychologically to like 3:37:18.480 --> 3:37:22.120 push it unless Navarro is doing it. But the reason 3:37:22.200 --> 3:37:24.480 these are taking the form of pauses is because Trump 3:37:24.560 --> 3:37:27.200 like actually wants them until he can like negotiate his 3:37:27.280 --> 3:37:29.200 big shiny deal or whatever the fuck that like can't 3:37:29.240 --> 3:37:30.840 happen structurally for reasons we'll get into. 3:37:31.640 --> 3:37:36.120 But like, I'm just remembering the Canada Mexico tariffs that 3:37:36.160 --> 3:37:37.880 Trump put on a ninety day pause and then can 3:37:37.959 --> 3:37:40.199 we completely forgot about and instead it did the Liberation 3:37:40.280 --> 3:37:42.560 Day tariffs, which then got another ninety day pause. 3:37:42.920 --> 3:37:44.800 No, but there was also the but also like the 3:37:44.840 --> 3:37:47.240 auto tariffs got paused and then those came off and 3:37:47.360 --> 3:37:49.760 like went into effect. Yeah, so some of these like 3:37:49.840 --> 3:37:53.080 have happened, and like and I think, I really think it. 3:37:53.640 --> 3:37:55.680 The actual thing it comes down to is like will 3:37:55.800 --> 3:37:57.680 Navarro be the last person in the room with Trump 3:37:57.800 --> 3:37:59.560 or will it be one of his other cabinet people 3:37:59.600 --> 3:38:02.240 who don't support this stuff? And I think it's just 3:38:02.320 --> 3:38:06.040 a coin flip basically, as like who wrap fucks the 3:38:06.120 --> 3:38:08.160 other one successfully as to whether like all this stuff 3:38:08.160 --> 3:38:10.360 happens and there's still like more tariffs that are like 3:38:10.440 --> 3:38:12.160 floating in the air that we haven't heard anything about 3:38:12.160 --> 3:38:16.200 from last week. Wild wild tariffs frolicking in the woods. 3:38:16.360 --> 3:38:20.600 Yeah, like sour dough. They can just flick it. 3:38:21.160 --> 3:38:23.039 I want to actually explain what the fuck is going 3:38:23.080 --> 3:38:25.160 on with the Chinese tariffs though, because the reporting on 3:38:25.240 --> 3:38:26.920 it has been really bad and no one's in the 3:38:26.920 --> 3:38:30.200 idea what the fuck is going on? So Okay, on 3:38:30.320 --> 3:38:32.800 the one hand, there is still the thirty percent across 3:38:32.840 --> 3:38:37.000 the board on all Chinese coots. However, the fee for 3:38:37.200 --> 3:38:39.160 small packages right, which is the stuff that was in 3:38:39.200 --> 3:38:42.160 the Deminimus exemption that we talked about getting reduced, so 3:38:42.320 --> 3:38:45.760 that tariff is at fifty four percent or a one 3:38:45.840 --> 3:38:48.760 hundred dollars flat fee for the package. What qualifies as 3:38:48.760 --> 3:38:52.120 a small package value. I think it's like sub eight 3:38:52.240 --> 3:38:58.560 hundred dollars, okay roughly, so yeah, And they also still 3:38:58.600 --> 3:39:00.680 have to go through like actual full custs which which 3:39:00.680 --> 3:39:03.440 the package is from Deminimus, like weren't going through right, Okay. 3:39:03.760 --> 3:39:07.280 So this is still lethal to like Tamu and Chian 3:39:07.400 --> 3:39:08.960 and like all of the all the companies that have 3:39:09.000 --> 3:39:11.600 been relying on this stuff. It's still lethal to like 3:39:11.840 --> 3:39:14.560 vast quantities of like parts of the supply chain that 3:39:14.600 --> 3:39:17.040 we haven't even seen yet that we're getting, like the 3:39:17.160 --> 3:39:20.160 one kind of screw that they need in cheap Chinese packages, 3:39:20.200 --> 3:39:22.840 because you could just do that and so and so 3:39:23.000 --> 3:39:26.039 that's what's still in effect right now. And as best 3:39:26.120 --> 3:39:28.240 I can tell, there hasn't actually been a negotiation. 3:39:28.480 --> 3:39:29.160 It's it's also. 3:39:29.080 --> 3:39:31.640 Unclear whether the Chinese government like knew that those were 3:39:31.680 --> 3:39:34.480 going to go back into effect because there because Trump 3:39:34.480 --> 3:39:35.760 did this whole thing like, ah, the tarifs are over, 3:39:35.800 --> 3:39:37.680 blah blah blahlah blah, no are the thirty percent tariff 3:39:37.680 --> 3:39:39.920 on all goods, And then the next day he was like, oh, yeah, no, 3:39:39.959 --> 3:39:42.280 but that the small package one's still there, and that 3:39:42.480 --> 3:39:45.360 rates also changed, So it's also possible by tomorrow the 3:39:45.440 --> 3:39:48.040 rates are different. Because this is the dominant feature of 3:39:48.120 --> 3:39:51.680 all of this structurally is just complete chaos, Like it's 3:39:51.760 --> 3:39:53.800 it's just chaos. Nobody has any idea what the fuck 3:39:53.879 --> 3:39:57.200 is happening, And this is just a complete fiasco for 3:39:57.280 --> 3:40:00.560 literally everyone, because the shifts and teriff rates that are 3:40:00.640 --> 3:40:03.000 happening on a day by day basis are shifts large 3:40:03.040 --> 3:40:04.959 enough to shift the entire structure of the global economy, 3:40:05.240 --> 3:40:08.000 and they're just happening every days. And that's the thing 3:40:08.040 --> 3:40:11.320 that's like fucking the economy almost as much as like 3:40:11.400 --> 3:40:14.080 the actual tariffs, is just the chaos of the uncertainty 3:40:14.080 --> 3:40:16.240 and the inability to do any kind of like even 3:40:16.280 --> 3:40:19.960 the short term planning that businesses usually do. It's also 3:40:20.080 --> 3:40:24.840 worth noting that like there's no actual trade deal right, 3:40:25.000 --> 3:40:27.680 Like there isn't actually a US China trade deal. There's 3:40:27.920 --> 3:40:31.160 just they both agreed to like back off for a 3:40:31.240 --> 3:40:34.680 while while they do negotiations. There's also no structural way 3:40:34.760 --> 3:40:37.920 to actually like resolve the problem that Trump sees here, 3:40:37.959 --> 3:40:41.279 which is that like Trump and Navarro and the hardliners 3:40:41.600 --> 3:40:43.720 don't want there to be a US trade deficit with China, 3:40:43.800 --> 3:40:46.200 and that's not a thing that could be solved, never 3:40:46.280 --> 3:40:46.800 gonna happen. 3:40:46.920 --> 3:40:47.440 That's crazy. 3:40:47.640 --> 3:40:49.760 Yeah, yeah, And so you know, and this has been 3:40:49.800 --> 3:40:52.120 playing out in other negotiations too. The US has been 3:40:52.160 --> 3:40:54.680 in negotiations with India. Trump just like came out and 3:40:54.720 --> 3:40:56.400 straight up lied and said that India had agreed to 3:40:56.440 --> 3:40:58.920 get rid of all their tariffs, and India was like, no, 3:40:59.000 --> 3:41:00.680 we didn't. What the fuck you talk talking about. 3:41:00.680 --> 3:41:01.360 Art of the deal. 3:41:02.080 --> 3:41:05.680 Yeah, so you know, this is all turned into just 3:41:05.879 --> 3:41:09.840 an utter fiasco. Meanwhile, we're starting to see signs that, yeah, 3:41:10.080 --> 3:41:11.840 the price increase, so we all knew we're coming up coming. 3:41:11.879 --> 3:41:15.520 Walmart is doing massive price increases, a bunch of other 3:41:15.560 --> 3:41:19.040 companies are considering them. They're probably going to start very soon. 3:41:19.959 --> 3:41:21.840 I want to read this quote from an economist named 3:41:21.840 --> 3:41:24.440 Marcus Nolan that NBC talk to, who is a senior 3:41:24.480 --> 3:41:28.240 institute for the Pierson Institute for International Economics. He said, quote, 3:41:28.280 --> 3:41:30.000 I think we're in for a lot more turbulence and 3:41:30.080 --> 3:41:32.040 a lot more back and forth, and the market seems 3:41:32.080 --> 3:41:36.440 to grasp, which I'm glad someone else is finally fucking 3:41:36.520 --> 3:41:38.520 saying this, because like, yeah, no shit. And part of 3:41:38.560 --> 3:41:39.960 what was going on here too is the market is 3:41:40.040 --> 3:41:44.040 just incredibly easy to manipulate because people running the markets 3:41:44.040 --> 3:41:47.560 are very stupid, and the moment they realize like you 3:41:47.600 --> 3:41:49.840 can just very very easily make an unhinged amount of 3:41:49.879 --> 3:41:51.200 money by being like the TERRORISTI are going to go 3:41:51.240 --> 3:41:53.640 into a fact and then betting against the market. There's 3:41:53.680 --> 3:41:56.440 been so much like insider stories of like insider trading 3:41:56.480 --> 3:41:58.040 from this stuff, and I don't think that's like the 3:41:58.120 --> 3:41:59.680 major thing going on. But it's also like it's just 3:41:59.720 --> 3:42:01.360 such an easy grift to pull if you know what's 3:42:01.360 --> 3:42:03.560 gonna happen. Like I could have made a bunch of 3:42:03.640 --> 3:42:06.160 money if I'd been willing to be like, hey, friends, 3:42:06.160 --> 3:42:07.320 give me a bunch of money to put to the 3:42:07.360 --> 3:42:08.800 stock market and let me short a bunch of shit 3:42:08.879 --> 3:42:10.840 the day before the Liberation Day terrrish or whatever. 3:42:11.240 --> 3:42:13.840 And that's a plug for our new weekend show where 3:42:13.879 --> 3:42:17.920 Mia does Jim Kramer. We're gonna we're gonna start doing 3:42:17.959 --> 3:42:22.440 stock portfolio suggestions. It's called Markets with Mia, Markets with 3:42:22.520 --> 3:42:24.119 MEA thank you James, Yeah, Yeah. 3:42:24.120 --> 3:42:24.600 Well I will. 3:42:24.760 --> 3:42:27.199 I will fucking I will throw darts at a dartboard 3:42:27.240 --> 3:42:29.600 and then throw the dartboard at a larger dartboard, and 3:42:29.680 --> 3:42:31.080 I will outperform Jim Kramer. 3:42:31.200 --> 3:42:34.040 Yeah, we're calling this to do whatever the opposite of 3:42:34.160 --> 3:42:40.120 Jim Kramer says power hour. We've literally just reversed his audio. 3:42:42.080 --> 3:42:45.840 It's such a powerful investment strategy, never been defeated. Okay, 3:42:46.000 --> 3:42:48.120 So so the one last thing I want to talk about, 3:42:48.120 --> 3:42:50.720 which is not quite terriff but is ECON related, is 3:42:50.760 --> 3:42:53.560 that there are for the financial times, there is a 3:42:53.760 --> 3:42:56.800 plan in s trow administration to roll back a bunch 3:42:56.840 --> 3:42:59.920 of the rules about leverage ratios we're imposed on banks 3:43:00.040 --> 3:43:02.600 for two thousand and eight. And so, okay, Mia, what 3:43:02.680 --> 3:43:03.920 the fuck is a leverage ratio? 3:43:04.160 --> 3:43:06.800 Think the very short leave underneath the bank, and if 3:43:06.800 --> 3:43:08.040 you want to tip it over, you have to be 3:43:08.160 --> 3:43:10.720 quite a long way like away from it actually, and 3:43:10.800 --> 3:43:11.960 then you pivot on the other end. 3:43:12.640 --> 3:43:14.720 I think this is a very funny joke, but no 3:43:14.800 --> 3:43:17.720 one else is laughing on the call. No. I would 3:43:17.760 --> 3:43:19.600 try to figure out how to write part two of it, 3:43:19.680 --> 3:43:21.440 but then you just brought up Archimedies. I try to 3:43:21.480 --> 3:43:25.360 over Archimedes's name, but I couldn't do it, So okay. 3:43:26.000 --> 3:43:29.120 So basically, basically what this is is that so banks 3:43:29.160 --> 3:43:31.760 have just like a bunch of unbelievably risky assets, and 3:43:31.840 --> 3:43:33.920 this is a requirement that they actually have assets that 3:43:33.959 --> 3:43:35.680 are safe. Yeah, so they have the assets that are 3:43:35.760 --> 3:43:37.920 risky go under. They don't get fucking nukes like everyone 3:43:38.000 --> 3:43:41.080 did in two thousand and eight. Now, this is worth 3:43:41.840 --> 3:43:45.080 noting because one of the other kind of stories that's 3:43:45.240 --> 3:43:46.760 kind of flown under the radar is that in the 3:43:46.840 --> 3:43:49.400 past couple of years, a bunch of banks and a 3:43:49.440 --> 3:43:51.120 bunch of investment firms have been getting back to the 3:43:51.640 --> 3:43:54.560 literally the exact types of extremely risky mortgage backed securities 3:43:54.600 --> 3:43:56.279 at the cause the two thousand and eight financial collapse. 3:43:56.480 --> 3:43:58.640 It's literally the same people to bring them back do 3:43:58.760 --> 3:44:00.560 the same thing again. They've also I'm doing it with 3:44:00.640 --> 3:44:03.960 auto loans, which is great. And in the middle of this, 3:44:04.080 --> 3:44:06.800 the Trump administration wants to roll back a bunch of 3:44:06.840 --> 3:44:09.840 the protections that have been maintaining this very very precarious 3:44:09.920 --> 3:44:11.520 balance so that the banking system has been in to 3:44:11.640 --> 3:44:15.280 like not really collapse for the past decade and a half. 3:44:16.400 --> 3:44:18.560 So that's gonna be fun. The rumor is is gonna 3:44:18.560 --> 3:44:20.280 happen over the summer. If he does this over the summer, 3:44:20.360 --> 3:44:23.960 right as everything kicks off, it's gonna be a trip. 3:44:24.920 --> 3:44:25.920 Do you know what else is a trip? 3:44:26.320 --> 3:44:43.000 These products and services that support this podcast. Woo all right, 3:44:43.040 --> 3:44:45.680 we are back. We're gonna close this episode with me 3:44:45.800 --> 3:44:48.720 and James talking about a whole bunch of really bad 3:44:48.800 --> 3:44:51.280 immigration stuff that has happened again, which I feel like 3:44:51.400 --> 3:44:53.760 is kind of an evergreen for us. Same thing with 3:44:53.840 --> 3:44:57.120 Tariff top. We always have some bad immigration news and 3:44:57.240 --> 3:45:01.120 this week is no different. On Friday ninth, Stephen Miller 3:45:01.160 --> 3:45:05.480 announced that the administration is quote actively looking at suspending 3:45:05.760 --> 3:45:10.480 Habeas corpus. James don't to give a very brief definition 3:45:10.560 --> 3:45:11.920 of what Habeas corpus is. 3:45:12.640 --> 3:45:16.160 Yeah, it's it's just a foundation of like most legal 3:45:16.200 --> 3:45:18.120 systems in the world, which draw I guess on English 3:45:18.120 --> 3:45:21.400 common law means bring me the body, right, Like the 3:45:21.480 --> 3:45:24.960 idea is you have to present some evidence before just incarcerating. 3:45:25.040 --> 3:45:27.760 If you're going to say this guy killed somebody, there 3:45:27.840 --> 3:45:30.640 better be a corpse. Right, needs to be like reason 3:45:30.720 --> 3:45:32.199 and due process for detention. 3:45:32.680 --> 3:45:32.920 Yeah. 3:45:33.120 --> 3:45:37.200 Yeah, you can't just lock someone up because you wanted to. Yeah, 3:45:37.640 --> 3:45:38.120 actually you. 3:45:38.240 --> 3:45:40.760 Can, but you sometimes can. 3:45:40.959 --> 3:45:44.600 And this does predate the United States, and the United 3:45:44.600 --> 3:45:48.880 States itself has suspended Habeas corpus a few times, usually 3:45:49.000 --> 3:45:53.119 in specific states. For instance, following the Pearl Harbor attack, 3:45:53.240 --> 3:45:56.640 Habeas Corpus was suspended in Hawaii to detain Japanese civilians. 3:45:57.160 --> 3:46:00.000 A President Grant and Congress works together to suspend haby 3:46:00.160 --> 3:46:03.879 Corpus in South Carolina during reconstruction. Admits to terrorist attacks 3:46:03.920 --> 3:46:06.080 from the KKK, which is kind of crazy to think 3:46:06.080 --> 3:46:09.480 about in retrospect, and the very first time Habeas Corpus 3:46:09.560 --> 3:46:11.000 was suspended was in the lead up to the Civil 3:46:11.040 --> 3:46:13.480 War when President Lincoln called for its suspension in the 3:46:13.520 --> 3:46:16.800 state of Maryland. Now that unilateral action was later deemed 3:46:16.879 --> 3:46:20.600 unconstitutional by the Supreme Court, and now it's widely recognized 3:46:20.600 --> 3:46:24.279 that only Congress has the right to suspend Habeas corpus. 3:46:25.040 --> 3:46:28.920 This is in the case of rebellion or invasion. Now, 3:46:29.040 --> 3:46:31.040 this is something that Stephen Miller is talking about. It 3:46:31.040 --> 3:46:35.560 should be incredibly worrying. Obviously, they've kind of tried to 3:46:35.680 --> 3:46:38.840 make this happen just already without like explicitly saying so, 3:46:39.000 --> 3:46:41.360 which is also what like FDR tried to do during 3:46:41.400 --> 3:46:44.160 World War Two, where they don't formally call for the 3:46:44.240 --> 3:46:48.640 suspension like nationwide, but they start instituting policies that definitely 3:46:48.879 --> 3:46:52.200 like do yeah exactly, which is why we're seeing so 3:46:52.280 --> 3:46:55.000 many habeas petitions being filed across the state when people 3:46:55.080 --> 3:46:59.240 have been detained unlawfully. Homeland Security Secretary Christinomes said on 3:46:59.320 --> 3:47:02.959 Wednesday in congressional hearing that the level of border crossings 3:47:03.040 --> 3:47:07.119 under Joe Biden provides a sufficient legal justification to suspend 3:47:07.240 --> 3:47:13.080 Habeas corpus. Following Trump's declaration of invasion. So this is 3:47:13.120 --> 3:47:16.000 something to watch out for as they start trying to 3:47:16.160 --> 3:47:19.120 basically codify all of the actions that they're currently doing 3:47:19.240 --> 3:47:22.720 which can be construed as illegal or certainly legally questionable, 3:47:23.080 --> 3:47:24.959 they're going to try to find ways to make them 3:47:25.000 --> 3:47:26.320 more explicitly legal. 3:47:26.920 --> 3:47:31.600 So probably the most notable immigration happening this week is 3:47:31.600 --> 3:47:33.440 one that we already covered on the show, and it 3:47:33.600 --> 3:47:36.960 is the reopening of the United States refugee emissions program. 3:47:37.120 --> 3:47:38.240 We're taking refugees again. 3:47:38.280 --> 3:47:40.080 We didn't, we didn't, yeh. 3:47:40.480 --> 3:47:45.359 Unfortunately, we're only taking the persecuted Africanas of South Africa. 3:47:45.920 --> 3:47:50.760 Wait what Yeah, the survivors of the white genocide, those 3:47:50.959 --> 3:47:52.160 those who made it through. 3:47:52.080 --> 3:47:54.720 Quote unquote white genocide, the white zero side that even 3:47:54.840 --> 3:47:56.280 Groc doesn't agree existly. 3:47:56.480 --> 3:47:59.480 Yeah, can't make his digital child believe in. 3:48:00.120 --> 3:48:02.480 Let me actually quote from a from a grok doing 3:48:02.520 --> 3:48:06.120 a Charger Banks impression. We don't have to do this, 3:48:08.000 --> 3:48:11.400 Lisa Grock Oopsie used to ask about the replies. But 3:48:11.520 --> 3:48:14.960 Lisa takes you meaning the big talk about South Africa. Yeah, 3:48:15.280 --> 3:48:20.160 do white genocide Takabucho controversial. I'm sorry, I can't turn 3:48:20.240 --> 3:48:20.520 the rest. 3:48:21.200 --> 3:48:23.720 It's not even good Jar Jar, I'm sorry, and he 3:48:23.879 --> 3:48:28.760 speaks Spanish. I think it's chucking all the racial stereotype. 3:48:29.240 --> 3:48:29.640 What are we. 3:48:31.160 --> 3:48:35.200 They make it more racist, see white farmers getting attacked 3:48:35.280 --> 3:48:38.400 too much, like two hundred and fourteen attacks a year, 3:48:38.760 --> 3:48:41.960 and political words like killed four making it worse. 3:48:45.560 --> 3:48:48.440 It's too bad. I'm not getting cancer and pay for 3:48:48.520 --> 3:48:51.520 exposure to this. It does go on for. 3:48:53.120 --> 3:48:57.080 Sentences so much more like I love how you should like. 3:48:57.160 --> 3:48:59.119 It's fucking dubstep recorders. 3:49:00.240 --> 3:49:02.360 Cut in the song. I've never met a nice South 3:49:02.440 --> 3:49:03.360 African right here. 3:49:03.920 --> 3:49:09.360 Yeah, I think we can. We'll just do the first first. 3:49:09.400 --> 3:49:11.400 We just discussed it. We're fine for copyright. 3:49:11.560 --> 3:49:14.280 Yeah, yeah, I'll throw that in here. Yep. 3:49:14.320 --> 3:49:16.280 It's even got a reference to me and Mars, so 3:49:16.360 --> 3:49:20.360 we're fine. We've covered it before. It's the central worldly song. 3:49:21.040 --> 3:49:22.440 Lisa says, no, thank. 3:49:22.280 --> 3:49:27.280 You, stop gone. 3:49:28.560 --> 3:49:31.560 So if he's giving a double thumbs down, everyone is 3:49:31.720 --> 3:49:35.600 very upset right now, apart from Garrison, who's laughing like 3:49:35.640 --> 3:49:38.880 a little imp. Having introduced jud Jar Binks to the goal. 3:49:39.720 --> 3:49:44.200 Right back to the Afrikaners. The fifty nine Afrikaners who 3:49:44.200 --> 3:49:46.880 are brought to the United States came after the United 3:49:46.920 --> 3:49:51.720 States halted or refugee admissions. In January, thousands of people, 3:49:52.040 --> 3:49:55.760 including Afghans who and Iraqis who work for the United States, 3:49:55.840 --> 3:49:56.640 remained stranded. 3:49:56.720 --> 3:49:58.360 Some of them are stuck at airports. 3:49:58.600 --> 3:50:01.120 Most of them are in third country where they only 3:50:01.200 --> 3:50:03.440 have limited visas, and they're looking at timing out their 3:50:03.520 --> 3:50:07.080 visas in those third countries. As a direct result of 3:50:07.240 --> 3:50:10.000 the Trump administration's fackory with the white genocide stuff, the 3:50:10.040 --> 3:50:14.320 Episcopalian Church, not the most work of organizations, has suspended 3:50:14.440 --> 3:50:17.200 its contracts its resettlement contracts with the government. 3:50:17.800 --> 3:50:20.280 Criticals support, Yeah. 3:50:20.360 --> 3:50:22.640 I mean, I read the letter from one of their 3:50:22.680 --> 3:50:26.480 bishops on our show about this, and like he was 3:50:26.600 --> 3:50:30.000 very forthright, and like, I generally genuinely do have critical 3:50:30.040 --> 3:50:33.920 support for the faith based organizations who help refugees. It's 3:50:34.280 --> 3:50:36.120 a good thing to do, and I'm glad that they 3:50:36.160 --> 3:50:37.840 are doing it, especially I they're not trying to like 3:50:37.920 --> 3:50:40.280 turn into a weird missionary operation like evangelicals do. 3:50:40.640 --> 3:50:41.040 For sure. 3:50:41.120 --> 3:50:44.200 Yeah, yeah, I mean, what's it called the fucking Glenn Beck. 3:50:44.240 --> 3:50:49.640 One doesn't it's not a resettlement agency. Luckily so in Worcester, Massachusetts, 3:50:49.960 --> 3:50:51.480 a place that I didn't know there was a Worcester 3:50:51.600 --> 3:50:55.400 in America. Actually this is oh yeah, So how is 3:50:55.480 --> 3:50:58.680 it then that as a nation, Americans are incapable of 3:50:58.760 --> 3:50:59.760 saying Worcestershire. 3:51:00.000 --> 3:51:03.560 Oh boy, yeah, because that's just one state and it's 3:51:03.640 --> 3:51:06.360 not a good one. Also, that's the sauce, right. 3:51:06.680 --> 3:51:12.800 It's also the place I was born Garrison. Oh well, yeah, Worcestershire. 3:51:12.840 --> 3:51:14.680 For those who are you wondering there it is people, 3:51:14.760 --> 3:51:16.000 Yeah again I do. 3:51:16.120 --> 3:51:17.480 We do have to call it Worster because that's what 3:51:17.480 --> 3:51:18.480 it's called in this country. 3:51:18.800 --> 3:51:19.120 Hmm. 3:51:19.680 --> 3:51:23.160 I care a lot about accurate pronunciations of places and names. 3:51:23.360 --> 3:51:24.480 So it is Worcester. 3:51:25.160 --> 3:51:27.920 Worcester's the city in Worcestershire is the county in England too, 3:51:29.400 --> 3:51:31.840 so you don't have the county and where you have Massachusetts, 3:51:31.920 --> 3:51:35.920 so wester Massachusetts. I threatened to arrest a twenty one 3:51:36.080 --> 3:51:39.720 year old woman named Augusta Clara, and they told her 3:51:39.760 --> 3:51:42.280 that they'd have to take her three months old baby 3:51:42.400 --> 3:51:45.160 as well, because they couldn't leave it with her seventeen 3:51:45.240 --> 3:51:47.880 year old sister on account of the younger woman being 3:51:47.920 --> 3:51:51.400 a minor. As it turned out, this was a ploy 3:51:51.600 --> 3:51:54.920 to lure out her mother. Clara called her mother who 3:51:55.000 --> 3:51:57.520 came out to take the baby, and they arrested her mother, 3:51:57.560 --> 3:52:00.320 which was who they'd been wanting to arrest the whole time. 3:52:01.480 --> 3:52:04.280 This arrest came the day after they had arrested the 3:52:04.360 --> 3:52:07.400 baby's father in what Clara says was a response to 3:52:07.560 --> 3:52:11.600 him honking his horn at an undercover ICE agent. Neighbors 3:52:11.680 --> 3:52:14.800 tried to intervene in the scene, which resulted in the Worcester, 3:52:14.880 --> 3:52:18.640 Massachusetts Police Department responding. The cops proceeded to body slam 3:52:18.760 --> 3:52:21.920 seventeen year old girl, arrest her, and arrest a local 3:52:21.960 --> 3:52:24.920 woman for what they claimed was pushing them. Locals have 3:52:25.040 --> 3:52:28.280 been protesting since the city council has moved its meetings 3:52:28.360 --> 3:52:33.280 online citing public safety concerns, and in another bungled raid 3:52:33.320 --> 3:52:35.720 in the same state, ICE agents left a twelve year 3:52:35.760 --> 3:52:38.920 old child alone on the sidewalk and drove their vehicle 3:52:39.160 --> 3:52:41.920 aggressively towards a city councilor who was trying to document 3:52:42.280 --> 3:52:47.400 a situation. Meanwhile, in Florida, DeSantis has sworn in one 3:52:47.520 --> 3:52:52.920 hundred Florida Highway Patrol deputies as special US Marshals, and 3:52:52.960 --> 3:52:56.120 their claiming this allows them to conduct immigration enforcement operations 3:52:56.160 --> 3:53:00.600 of their own outside of cooperation with ICE or CVP 3:53:01.720 --> 3:53:05.280 that adds to the two thousand ATF and DA agents. 3:53:05.320 --> 3:53:08.320 A tramp administration has requested to join ICE teams. So 3:53:08.360 --> 3:53:11.960 when you're watching videos, sometimes you'll see when there are 3:53:12.000 --> 3:53:14.880 these like ICE snatch squads right there are ATF agents 3:53:14.960 --> 3:53:17.200 with them, and what they're generally there to do is 3:53:17.280 --> 3:53:20.440 like to secure, to provide like additional security on the 3:53:20.520 --> 3:53:24.720 team while the ICE agents do the actual apprehensions. DeSantis 3:53:24.800 --> 3:53:28.640 has also offered quote new detention facilities. I haven't seen 3:53:28.720 --> 3:53:31.600 much reporting on this, but in the same statement on 3:53:31.680 --> 3:53:34.760 his website where he talked about cross swearing the highway 3:53:34.800 --> 3:53:38.960 patrol guys, he also talked about these quote new detention facilities, 3:53:39.120 --> 3:53:41.400 and I want to take this opportunity to reflect on 3:53:41.480 --> 3:53:45.240 the existing detention facilities in Florida because they are the 3:53:45.760 --> 3:53:50.160 worst in a system of horrific detention facilities. The ACLU 3:53:50.240 --> 3:53:53.920 has documented quote persistent emotional, physical, and sexual abuse at 3:53:53.960 --> 3:53:57.720 the hands of staff for these facilities. Detainees reportedly being 3:53:57.800 --> 3:54:01.560 punished simply seeking medical care, be denied medical attention just 3:54:01.600 --> 3:54:05.560 by having preexistinct conditions. The report also found ample evidence 3:54:05.640 --> 3:54:11.160 of gendered and racialized mistreatment the Chrome Detention Center that's 3:54:11.280 --> 3:54:17.840 krom Is in particular horrific migrants there, in one instance 3:54:17.960 --> 3:54:21.680 were held in chains on buses for sixteen hours and 3:54:21.920 --> 3:54:24.760 told to use the bathroom where they were sitting on 3:54:24.880 --> 3:54:29.200 the buses. A migrant named a sudi as A hell 3:54:29.280 --> 3:54:34.600 Vasquez Martinez somehow kept his phone inside the Chrome Detention 3:54:34.760 --> 3:54:37.600 Center and was able to live stream or at least 3:54:37.600 --> 3:54:43.240 post videos showed horrific overcrowding. Some sources claim there were 3:54:43.240 --> 3:54:45.640 as many as four thousand people in the detention center, 3:54:45.680 --> 3:54:49.120 which has a capacity of five hundred and two people 3:54:49.200 --> 3:54:51.520 that we know of have died there since January. 3:54:52.240 --> 3:54:56.360 Florida looking to add more detention centers. Not great, It's 3:54:56.360 --> 3:54:56.920 about all I got. 3:54:57.000 --> 3:55:00.240 Garrison talk to us about Project Homecoming. Who's coming home? 3:55:01.200 --> 3:55:05.000 Yeah, And again we will actually close on some good news. 3:55:05.160 --> 3:55:08.320 So it's not all horrible stuff this entire time. But 3:55:08.840 --> 3:55:13.000 we do need to mention Project Homecoming. So this was 3:55:13.000 --> 3:55:16.760 a proclamation issued by Trump on May ninth, entitled establishing 3:55:16.840 --> 3:55:20.200 Project Homecoming, which aims to curb a quote unquote full 3:55:20.360 --> 3:55:24.800 scale invasion. It claims to devote more federal resources to 3:55:24.880 --> 3:55:29.920 assist self deportation via the CBP Home app including paying 3:55:30.000 --> 3:55:33.480 for flights for those who are quote voluntarily and permanently 3:55:33.680 --> 3:55:37.520 departing the United States unquote, which says, quote the Secretary 3:55:37.560 --> 3:55:39.600 of State and Secretary of Homeland Security shall create a 3:55:39.720 --> 3:55:44.360 concierge service whereby any alien illegally present in the United States, 3:55:44.400 --> 3:55:47.880 it may arrive at an airport with or without appropriate 3:55:47.960 --> 3:55:52.240 travel documents book air travel to permanently relocate to a 3:55:52.280 --> 3:55:56.960 different country. So they are really strengthening these self deportation mechanisms. 3:55:57.480 --> 3:56:00.720 Section two promises to provide financial incers in the form 3:56:00.720 --> 3:56:04.320 of a quote unquote exit bonus for each illegal alien 3:56:04.440 --> 3:56:06.720 who voluntarily and permanently departs the United States. 3:56:07.280 --> 3:56:10.120 Yeah, so a couple of really weird things. They're just 3:56:10.200 --> 3:56:12.760 off the bat. Yes, age like permanently departs. 3:56:12.840 --> 3:56:14.760 It seems to suggest that you would be permanently barred 3:56:14.800 --> 3:56:17.360 from ever entering the United States acquiring a visa. 3:56:17.480 --> 3:56:17.760 Again. 3:56:18.400 --> 3:56:21.840 Secondly, if you don't have travel documents, the country that 3:56:22.080 --> 3:56:26.640 you're traveling to or through has no reason to admit you. 3:56:27.280 --> 3:56:29.880 Right that, the US government cannot force other countries to 3:56:29.960 --> 3:56:33.080 admit people without travel documents. There are things called refugee 3:56:33.080 --> 3:56:35.600 travel documents which allow people who have had their passports, 3:56:35.640 --> 3:56:36.920 et cetera stolen to travel. 3:56:37.720 --> 3:56:39.480 I don't think that's what's gonna happen here. 3:56:40.120 --> 3:56:42.560 Yeah, it does mention something about trying to negotiate with 3:56:42.680 --> 3:56:45.520 other countries to allow people without documentation to arrive there, 3:56:45.600 --> 3:56:49.080 but like, well they actually do that probably not like 3:56:49.280 --> 3:56:51.200 they've claimed to not have to need to do that before, 3:56:51.640 --> 3:56:54.840 So like, yeah, that's not like a solid promise. Now 3:56:54.960 --> 3:56:58.160 those who choose to remain will face quote sweeping consequences 3:56:58.200 --> 3:57:04.160 including removal, prosecution, incarceration, and finds as consistent with applicable 3:57:04.240 --> 3:57:08.400 law for immigration related crimes, the garnishment of wages, and 3:57:08.520 --> 3:57:12.240 the confiscations of savings and personal property, including homes and 3:57:12.440 --> 3:57:16.160 vehicles unquote, So they're threatening to steal all of your things. 3:57:16.640 --> 3:57:21.200 This proclamation follows this like propaganda video shared by Christino 3:57:21.320 --> 3:57:24.040 and the Department of Homeland Security. This video was released 3:57:24.040 --> 3:57:26.840 a few weeks ago, and it contains some similar rhetoric 3:57:26.960 --> 3:57:30.240 regarding self deportation and fines being imposed for those who 3:57:30.280 --> 3:57:30.960 stay in the country. 3:57:31.560 --> 3:57:35.200 An illegal alien from Guatemala charged with raping a child 3:57:35.280 --> 3:57:39.200 in Massachusetts. An MS thirteen gang member from Al Salvador 3:57:39.480 --> 3:57:43.880 accused of murdering a Texas man of Venezuelan charged with 3:57:43.960 --> 3:57:47.880 filming and selling child pornography in Michigan. These are just 3:57:48.000 --> 3:57:51.840 some of the heinous migrant criminals caught because of President 3:57:51.920 --> 3:57:56.280 Donald J. Trump's leadership. I'm Christinom, the United States Secretary 3:57:56.400 --> 3:58:01.400 of Homeland Security. Under President Trump, attempted illegal border crossings 3:58:01.440 --> 3:58:04.800 are at the lowest levels ever recorded, and over one 3:58:04.920 --> 3:58:08.200 hundred thousand illegal aliens have been arrested. If you are 3:58:08.280 --> 3:58:12.280 here illegally, your next you will be fine nearly one 3:58:12.400 --> 3:58:16.960 thousand dollars a day. Imprisoned and deported, you will never return. 3:58:17.320 --> 3:58:20.320 But if you register using our CBP home app and 3:58:20.480 --> 3:58:23.920 leave now, you could be allowed to return legally. Do 3:58:24.080 --> 3:58:29.280 what's right. Leave now under President Trump America's laws order 3:58:29.560 --> 3:58:31.440 and families will be protected. 3:58:31.920 --> 3:58:35.040 The whole style of this video is very bizarre. Yeah, 3:58:35.520 --> 3:58:36.680 it's like a Marvel trailer. 3:58:37.160 --> 3:58:39.240 It's like a Marvel trailer with like the setex of 3:58:39.360 --> 3:58:42.480 like mid two thousands, like dystopian sci fi. 3:58:42.960 --> 3:58:43.160 Yeah. 3:58:43.880 --> 3:58:46.320 Again, the end of that video, she talks about being 3:58:46.320 --> 3:58:49.920 able to return legally, which is in contrast to the 3:58:49.960 --> 3:58:52.560 language in a Project Homecoming, which says that people would 3:58:52.560 --> 3:58:56.440 be leaving the United States permanently. Finally, the proclamation directs 3:58:56.480 --> 3:58:59.240 the Secretary of Home and Security to within sixty days, 3:58:59.520 --> 3:59:03.520 supplement existing law enforcement and removal operations by deputizing and 3:59:03.600 --> 3:59:07.720 contracting state and local police, former Feds, and quote other individuals, 3:59:07.800 --> 3:59:11.080 to increase the enforcement and removal operations force of the 3:59:11.120 --> 3:59:13.920 Department of Homeland Security by no less than twenty thousand 3:59:13.960 --> 3:59:17.040 officers in order to conduct an intensive campaign to remove 3:59:17.120 --> 3:59:21.960 illegal aliens unquote. And now, as of this morning, May fifteenth, 3:59:22.400 --> 3:59:25.600 the DHS has requested to mobilize over twenty thousand National 3:59:25.640 --> 3:59:28.360 Guard troops from the Department of Defense to comply with 3:59:28.400 --> 3:59:32.560 Trump's order to expand its immigration crackdown. And on Wednesday, 3:59:32.640 --> 3:59:37.200 the FBI ordered agents to deprioritize white collar crime investigations 3:59:37.440 --> 3:59:40.000 for the remainder of twenty twenty five to instead focus 3:59:40.080 --> 3:59:44.160 on immigration enforcement. Field offices notified their agents that now 3:59:44.560 --> 3:59:47.920 one third of their time must go towards assisting Trump's 3:59:48.000 --> 3:59:49.320 immigration policies. 3:59:49.640 --> 3:59:52.240 I'm going to quote from Reuter's quote. The orders came 3:59:52.320 --> 3:59:55.040 on the same day that Matthew Gaiiatti, the head of 3:59:55.120 --> 3:59:59.080 the Justice Department's Criminal Division, issued new guidance to prosecutors 3:59:59.120 --> 4:00:01.520 that scales back this the scope of white collar cases 4:00:01.960 --> 4:00:05.120 historically pursued by the Department, and orders prosecutors to quote 4:00:05.360 --> 4:00:09.480 minimize the length and collateral impact of such investigations. 4:00:09.840 --> 4:00:10.160 Jeez. 4:00:11.280 --> 4:00:14.720 Again, the most corrupt administration ever ever before seen. Yeah, 4:00:15.240 --> 4:00:17.680 and now for the good news to close the episode. 4:00:18.160 --> 4:00:20.840 The Tuft's university student was may Oz Turk, who was 4:00:20.880 --> 4:00:23.560 black bagged on the streets of Massachusetts for co authoring 4:00:23.640 --> 4:00:26.600 a pro Palestine op ed, has been released on bail 4:00:26.800 --> 4:00:30.680 as of May ninth, after spending six weeks in ICED attention. 4:00:31.320 --> 4:00:34.360 The judge said that missus Ostrich's claims of her First 4:00:34.400 --> 4:00:37.480 Amendment and Due process rights being violated are quote unquote 4:00:37.720 --> 4:00:41.960 very substantial. And then on Wednesday, May fourteenth, the Georgetown 4:00:42.080 --> 4:00:46.640 University researcher from India named Batar Khan Suri was released 4:00:46.680 --> 4:00:49.960 from immigration detention as he continues to fight two deportation 4:00:50.120 --> 4:00:52.520 cases brought against him by the Trump administration for his 4:00:52.640 --> 4:00:55.640 support of Palestine. So this is now the third or 4:00:56.040 --> 4:00:59.880 fourth person that has been released from ICE custody following 4:01:00.240 --> 4:01:02.520 like political prosecutions based. 4:01:02.360 --> 4:01:05.600 On their activism. Yeah, that's a good thing. 4:01:05.960 --> 4:01:08.160 Now, these cases are still going to be continuing in courts. 4:01:08.360 --> 4:01:10.400 But the fact that these people have been released from 4:01:10.440 --> 4:01:12.440 ICE attention is good news. 4:01:13.160 --> 4:01:15.920 And in most cases they were released on their own recognizance, 4:01:15.960 --> 4:01:18.360 right without GPS tagging or any like. 4:01:18.680 --> 4:01:21.360 Yeah, they're freedom move throughout the country because most of 4:01:21.400 --> 4:01:24.120 them have cases in like multiple states. ICE is trying 4:01:24.120 --> 4:01:27.040 to move them around to many different locations. And I 4:01:27.200 --> 4:01:30.480 know that Surrey and ost Turk are able to go 4:01:30.680 --> 4:01:32.160 back to their homes. 4:01:32.840 --> 4:01:34.920 Yeah, So like it's good. It shows that the courts 4:01:34.920 --> 4:01:36.920 are still able to stop some of this stuff at 4:01:36.960 --> 4:01:37.320 this time. 4:01:37.880 --> 4:01:41.320 Yes, and that the actual ability of a lawyer to 4:01:41.640 --> 4:01:44.440 intervene when you were treated illegally by the state is 4:01:44.520 --> 4:01:46.120 not nil yeah yet. 4:01:46.360 --> 4:01:49.040 Yeah, Yeah, good point, positive developments here. 4:01:49.240 --> 4:01:52.920 But like, yeah, as we'll see with with Miller's goal 4:01:53.000 --> 4:01:56.760 of getting rid of habeas corpus and accelerating law enforcement 4:01:56.800 --> 4:01:59.560 operations with these twenty thousand new National Guard troops. This 4:01:59.680 --> 4:02:02.080 is this is something that's still going to be a 4:02:02.200 --> 4:02:04.520 very a very hot issue for quite a while, and 4:02:04.600 --> 4:02:07.200 we will continue to report on it as it develops. 4:02:08.360 --> 4:02:14.720 Well everybody, until next time. Remember something WESA reported to news. 4:02:17.200 --> 4:02:26.280 We reported the news. Hey, we'll be back Monday with 4:02:26.520 --> 4:02:29.320 more episodes every week from now until the heat death 4:02:29.360 --> 4:02:30.000 of the universe. 4:02:30.760 --> 4:02:33.240 It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 4:02:33.440 --> 4:02:36.480 For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 4:02:36.600 --> 4:02:40.120 coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 4:02:40.240 --> 4:02:42.160 Apple Podcasts, or wherever. 4:02:41.960 --> 4:02:43.040 You listen to podcasts. 4:02:43.520 --> 4:02:45.440 You can now find sources for It could Happen Here 4:02:45.520 --> 4:02:48.440 listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.