WEBVTT - Part One: How Eliza Fraser Survived a Shipwreck and Sparked a Genocide

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<v Speaker 1>Also media.

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<v Speaker 2>It's Behind the Bastards, a podcast that I have increasingly

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<v Speaker 2>gotten bad at opening. You would think normally when you

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<v Speaker 2>do something thousands of times, you get better at it,

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<v Speaker 2>but sometimes you just get worse at it, because how

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<v Speaker 2>do you keep opening the podcast? You know, I've already

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<v Speaker 2>done the what's cracking my peppers? We've already reached the

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<v Speaker 2>highest highs that a man can reach, not just in

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<v Speaker 2>podcasting but in life in general. So there's there's nowhere

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<v Speaker 2>to go.

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<v Speaker 1>But want to I want to try hello and welcome

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<v Speaker 1>to Behind the Bastards.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think that. I don't think any podcast has

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<v Speaker 2>ever opened that way?

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<v Speaker 3>Is that?

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<v Speaker 2>Is that why we don't get awarts?

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<v Speaker 3>I prefer ha dah.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah that was pretty I was like out of a

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<v Speaker 1>Sandler status.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there you go, and he got to be in

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<v Speaker 2>uncut gems. You know, maybe I'll get to be an

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<v Speaker 2>uncut gyms. I could be. I could have a gambling problem, Sophie,

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<v Speaker 2>I believe in me.

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<v Speaker 3>I do believe that you.

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<v Speaker 1>Could have a gambling problem. But we don't let you

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<v Speaker 1>touch the money.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh man, I can put it all on black, Sophie

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<v Speaker 2>twenty one black. I think that's a roulette term. Anyway,

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<v Speaker 2>speaking of roulette, every time we pick a new guest,

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<v Speaker 2>it's roulette, except today, because today we have Jack O'Brien

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<v Speaker 2>back on the pod, Jack the Guarantee, switch Jack the

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<v Speaker 2>pro Brian.

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<v Speaker 3>That's called a jackpot, and that is my catchphrase.

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<v Speaker 2>Now it's nice.

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<v Speaker 3>That's nice saying get back from the dead, and the

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<v Speaker 3>dead you all forgot about him. Yeah. Of all the

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<v Speaker 3>popular casino names that you could have associated with my name,

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<v Speaker 3>roulette is definitely the closest, especially after you had just

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<v Speaker 3>said twenty one. There's a game called black jack. I

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<v Speaker 3>know they don't let you gamble, but.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, money, yeah, you got black jack.

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<v Speaker 3>It's a jackpot. My name really slot slots in nicely

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<v Speaker 3>with a lot of a casino lingo.

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<v Speaker 1>Why have you not made a crypto because it's evil?

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<v Speaker 3>Oh right right, I will tell you that is not why.

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<v Speaker 3>It's a pure laziness and not willing to learn all

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<v Speaker 3>the bullshit that goes along with it.

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<v Speaker 1>I do feel like your co host Miles Gray could

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<v Speaker 1>really sell amium coin. Oh hell yeah yeah, like come on,

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<v Speaker 1>oh there it is, it's there. You did it.

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<v Speaker 3>We did try and soft launch ZiT coin, and everybody

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<v Speaker 3>thought it was a joke.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so I tried to launch bastard coin. You just

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<v Speaker 2>wound up making the president a lot of money.

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<v Speaker 3>Basically what we all do every day. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, that that is kind of the point of everyone

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<v Speaker 2>else in the country now speaking of making a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of money doing evil things. Australia, that's the ship this week.

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<v Speaker 2>It's an Australian bastard. Our Ozzie listeners have been begging

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<v Speaker 2>for years, why not, Why don't you ever talk about

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<v Speaker 2>Australians So many of us are terrible. It's always been

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<v Speaker 2>my understanding that Australia is sort of like Texas, the

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<v Speaker 2>country in a lot of ways, but just with fucking

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<v Speaker 2>desert racing replacing guns and kangaroos replacing whateverdillos.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I don't think anything replaces kangaroos. Anyway,

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<v Speaker 2>We're talking about a lady named Eliza Frasier this week.

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<v Speaker 2>That's our our bastard. And so Eliza is a lady

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<v Speaker 2>who gets shipwrecked and then tells a bunch of lies

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<v Speaker 2>about how the Aboriginal people on the island that she

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<v Speaker 2>is shipwrecked on treat her, and those lies wind up

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<v Speaker 2>cascading and playing a role in a lot of genocidal bullshit.

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<v Speaker 2>So she's the bastard this week, and also the colonial

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<v Speaker 2>state of Australia is a bastard. But it's a fascinating

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<v Speaker 2>story about a place that I knew nothing about before

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<v Speaker 2>I started reading about this. So we're gonna have a

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<v Speaker 2>good time, Jack, you did to hear about some genocide.

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<v Speaker 3>I the West? Mate. By the end, I will get

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<v Speaker 3>here one good syllable of an Australian accent.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it's okay because Eliza comes from this era. She's British, right,

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<v Speaker 2>Like she's a major figure in Australian history. But like

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<v Speaker 2>the Aussies hadn't really figured out that accent yet, right,

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<v Speaker 2>they were still just British people on a different place.

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<v Speaker 3>They're not workshop people. I like the idea that they

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<v Speaker 3>were just like intentionally in a room somewhere. That is

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<v Speaker 3>kind of what happened with the received pronunciation, right, the

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<v Speaker 3>British accent.

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<v Speaker 2>Like, yeah, a bunch of rich guys sat around in

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<v Speaker 2>a room.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah. In Shakespeare in Time, the British accent sounded like

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<v Speaker 3>the Baltimore accent, Like it was just kind of like

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<v Speaker 3>engine birding and.

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<v Speaker 2>Everyone sounded like a character in the wire.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah that's correct.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah that sounds about right.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, Yen's going down to see Shakespeare at the Globe.

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<v Speaker 2>That that's exactly how Shakespeare sounded.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, that's so much of your tb or not to be.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, thankfully, Denzel's version of Macbeth really really delivered on that.

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<v Speaker 3>But then they were like, we should sound fancy, and

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<v Speaker 3>that's where we got to receive pronunciation. I don't think

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<v Speaker 3>this is like exactly what happened. I don't think they

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<v Speaker 3>had like a meeting where they were like, should we

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<v Speaker 3>fancy it up? But they were just like it kind

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<v Speaker 3>of sounds cool when we talk like this.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I've missed you, buddy.

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<v Speaker 3>My accent works so good. You've missed me and my

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<v Speaker 3>accent work.

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<v Speaker 2>That's also part of the the thing is like we

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<v Speaker 2>could be shitty to everyone who doesn't talk right because

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<v Speaker 2>they didn't go to Eton or wherever. Yes, why you

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<v Speaker 2>have like received if you if you know British people,

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<v Speaker 2>they can always tell you, oh yeah, that guy's rich,

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<v Speaker 2>just by like hearing him. I know, whereas in America

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<v Speaker 2>everyone just sounds like a California now.

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<v Speaker 3>As we did it.

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<v Speaker 2>Joe all up, speaker, let's talk about Eliza Frasier and

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<v Speaker 2>this series of genocides. It's great stuff. Now, this is

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<v Speaker 2>also kind of a story about conflicting versions of events

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<v Speaker 2>can sort of spread through popular media because one of

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<v Speaker 2>the things that's happens here is this lady gets rescued

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<v Speaker 2>from being shipwrecked and starts telling a story that she

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<v Speaker 2>changes several times, and a whole industry arises around telling

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<v Speaker 2>that story because there's just a lot of money in

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<v Speaker 2>lying about this, because it gets white people titillated, and

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<v Speaker 2>so there's just a whole it like literally like a

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<v Speaker 2>like it's almost like its own cinematic universe of lying

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<v Speaker 2>about this lady being shipwrecked that starts out in the

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<v Speaker 2>mid eighteen hundreds. It's very fun. But every version of

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<v Speaker 2>events starts the same way, which is that Eliza Fraser

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<v Speaker 2>sets sail on a boat called the Sterling Castle in

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<v Speaker 2>eighteen thirty six. Her husband is the captain, and according

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<v Speaker 2>to most versions of the story, although not all of them,

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<v Speaker 2>she is Preger's, which I don't think i've ever set

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<v Speaker 2>on the show.

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<v Speaker 1>I hate it, I.

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<v Speaker 3>Really love it.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm getting mixed reacts.

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<v Speaker 3>The goosebumps that I have on my arms right now

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<v Speaker 3>are because it felt so good and natural. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>Preger's Preger's McGregor's.

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<v Speaker 2>Bereggor's McGregor's off. Only her last name had been McGregor.

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<v Speaker 2>That would really have worked.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm sure one of the people on the on the

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<v Speaker 3>ship was named McGregor.

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<v Speaker 2>It's god, anytime there's a British ship at sea, there's

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<v Speaker 2>a McGregor somewhere on that motherfucker. So in May of

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<v Speaker 2>eighteen thirty six, several months after setting sail, the Sterling

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<v Speaker 2>Castle runs aground, not all that far from an island

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<v Speaker 2>that at that point Europeans called it the Great Sandy Island.

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<v Speaker 2>It's going to be called Fraser Island. Uh and uh

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<v Speaker 2>yeah yeah yeah right. They name it after this lady

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<v Speaker 2>who lies about it. It is to this day the

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<v Speaker 2>world's largest sand island. So it's it's a pretty sizable island.

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<v Speaker 2>It's about one hundred and eighty six miles north of

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<v Speaker 2>Brisbane and today it's called Gharri. It is spelled k

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<v Speaker 2>apostrophe j r I and if you go to like Wikipedia,

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<v Speaker 2>it'll say it's pronounced gury or gury like g U

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<v Speaker 2>r r i E. But I pulled up a video

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<v Speaker 2>of like people who come from like the tribes that

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<v Speaker 2>are indigenous to the island saying it, and they say

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<v Speaker 2>it more like ghuri.

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<v Speaker 1>Uh.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's how I'm going to try to say it.

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<v Speaker 2>Because they're rter than Wikipedia. It's also possible that maybe

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<v Speaker 2>there's some like dialect differences and people. Yeah, anyway, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>going to try to call it gary because that's what

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<v Speaker 2>it sounded like in the video that I saw.

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<v Speaker 3>Is Sandy Island like just sand? Is that uncommon? I guess?

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<v Speaker 3>Is my question? Like I've been to islands that have

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<v Speaker 3>sand on them, but like I did not realize that

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<v Speaker 3>they were.

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<v Speaker 2>It's common, but not for them to be this big, right,

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<v Speaker 2>Like there's a bunch of sandy islands, but the Great

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<v Speaker 2>Sandy Island is the biggest. One thing you got to

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<v Speaker 2>give the first name Europeans give it is that it's

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<v Speaker 2>at least accurate where they're like, well this is a

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<v Speaker 2>fucking huge sandy island. Son of a bitch is big.

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<v Speaker 1>Jack Imagine island but like more sand yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>Well like even Sandier yeah, and even Sandier Island the

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<v Speaker 3>sand you could call it the sandyst island the sandiest

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<v Speaker 3>of Anakin Skywalker would hate this fucking island as a colonizer,

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<v Speaker 3>I guess makes sense, so that people have been living

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<v Speaker 3>on Gari for a very very long time, and at

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<v Speaker 3>least some of what I've read, although I always take

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<v Speaker 3>like European anthropology about Aboriginal people, a lot of which

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<v Speaker 3>is written in like the sixties and seventies, with a

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<v Speaker 3>grain of salt here, a lot of that kind of

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<v Speaker 3>stuff that I've read said that in antiquity, at least

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<v Speaker 3>the people who lived on this island did not conceive

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<v Speaker 3>of a world outside of this island and this little

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<v Speaker 3>chunk of the mainland that they kind of moved between,

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<v Speaker 3>because they were like a lot of the people who

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<v Speaker 3>lived on Ghari lived on Gary like part time and

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<v Speaker 3>then would be on the mainland near the coast part time,

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<v Speaker 3>would kind of move between the two right based on

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<v Speaker 3>like the what kind of food was available in what season.

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<v Speaker 3>Not uncommon around the world, most people who were like

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<v Speaker 3>quote unquote hunter gathers or whatnot, were more like semi

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<v Speaker 3>nomadic right where they would have places that they would

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<v Speaker 3>like settle down in places where they kind of would

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<v Speaker 3>grow food, but they would also move around based on

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<v Speaker 3>you know, what the climate's doing and what kind of

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<v Speaker 3>you know, food is available different chunks of the year. Anyway,

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<v Speaker 3>I should start with some deep history of this island,

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<v Speaker 3>which is again very imperfect, but it's it's better than

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<v Speaker 3>not doing it at all. The peoples who lived on

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<v Speaker 3>this island tended to pass on knowledge orally through song,

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<v Speaker 3>So we don't have a complete understanding of their history

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<v Speaker 3>because not all of the people who knew all of

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<v Speaker 3>the songs survived to pass them down, right, because there's

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<v Speaker 3>a genocide, right, But we do have quite a lot

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<v Speaker 3>of information from these people in that restitution shadow by

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<v Speaker 3>the way.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, a sizeable amount of their records, like we have

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<v Speaker 2>their records of their very first European contract contact, which

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<v Speaker 2>has been passed down four hundred like several hundred years

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<v Speaker 2>through songs. Human beings have lived on what is today

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<v Speaker 2>Ghari for more than fifty thousand years. There's no real

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<v Speaker 2>way to get much more precise than that. And human

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<v Speaker 2>civilization on the island in fact predates it being an island,

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<v Speaker 2>because until about six thousand years ago it was still

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<v Speaker 2>directly connected to the Australian mainland. Rising sea levels put

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<v Speaker 2>an end to that in the fertile climate and bounty

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<v Speaker 2>of aquatic protein enable it to support a meaningful permanent

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<v Speaker 2>population of like several thousand people. Most casual histories of

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<v Speaker 2>Ghuri tend to emphasize the isolation that the people there

0:11:57.640 --> 0:12:00.800
<v Speaker 2>had from other groups of people. This does not seem

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<v Speaker 2>to be entirely accurate. By the time Europeans arrived there,

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<v Speaker 2>there were three broad tribal groups on the island, one

0:12:08.920 --> 0:12:14.199
<v Speaker 2>of them the Bochola, which is usually spelled butcha La,

0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:17.800
<v Speaker 2>but there's like three different spellings that are all correct

0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:22.960
<v Speaker 2>because it's like an anglicization, right. So the Bachola lived

0:12:22.960 --> 0:12:26.000
<v Speaker 2>on the mainland across from the Great Sandy Strait and

0:12:26.080 --> 0:12:28.160
<v Speaker 2>in the central part of the island, right, so they

0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:31.640
<v Speaker 2>would kind of go between different like the mainland and

0:12:31.640 --> 0:12:35.080
<v Speaker 2>the island. And then there's the Dulungbara who occupied much

0:12:35.120 --> 0:12:40.360
<v Speaker 2>of the south, and the Nulungbara in the north. And

0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:43.040
<v Speaker 2>I was not able to find pronunciations for those latter two,

0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:45.040
<v Speaker 2>so I'm doing my best on those. I'm pretty sure

0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:49.920
<v Speaker 2>I've got Bachola right to some extent. Ghuri like occupation

0:12:50.000 --> 0:12:52.720
<v Speaker 2>of Ghuri varied with the season. Mullet fishing was the

0:12:52.760 --> 0:12:54.880
<v Speaker 2>major source of food, and during the height of the

0:12:54.920 --> 0:12:57.000
<v Speaker 2>harvest there might be as many as three thousand people

0:12:57.000 --> 0:12:59.040
<v Speaker 2>on the island, right, and then it's kind of like

0:12:59.040 --> 0:13:01.720
<v Speaker 2>a snowbird situation, where like your full timers are a

0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:04.120
<v Speaker 2>smaller chunk of the population. I don't think they had

0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:05.920
<v Speaker 2>our vs. But otherwise that's more.

0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:11.200
<v Speaker 3>Like anyways, Eastern like East Coast retirees are living the

0:13:11.240 --> 0:13:16.679
<v Speaker 3>most similar lives to indigenous peoples of long ago.

0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:18.959
<v Speaker 2>But right, right, traveling Florida and.

0:13:19.600 --> 0:13:23.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, going between the Jersey Shore and Florida.

0:13:23.200 --> 0:13:26.439
<v Speaker 2>I mean there are some ways in which that's right, right, right, people,

0:13:26.440 --> 0:13:29.080
<v Speaker 2>like the idea that people would just live one place

0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:30.800
<v Speaker 2>all the time is new.

0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:34.840
<v Speaker 3>It is, And it's also like not that book The

0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:38.280
<v Speaker 3>Dawn of Everything by David Graeber and Weng Grove, like

0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:42.320
<v Speaker 3>they talk about how one of the key freedoms that

0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:44.200
<v Speaker 3>they used to have that we don't really have as

0:13:44.320 --> 0:13:47.000
<v Speaker 3>much anymore and don't really value is just the ability

0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:50.360
<v Speaker 3>to be like, well this sucked, and like leave down,

0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:52.800
<v Speaker 3>Like that was always the thing that people were just

0:13:53.120 --> 0:13:55.560
<v Speaker 3>able to do, and then like entire communities would just

0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:57.600
<v Speaker 3>like move if things got shitty.

0:13:57.720 --> 0:14:00.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it seems like it sucks here. Let's go calling

0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:04.920
<v Speaker 2>himself King timed to bounce. Yeah yeah, Oh if only

0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:07.840
<v Speaker 2>we could still do that. Buy an RV, become free everyone.

0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:10.920
<v Speaker 2>That's the message of this podcast, Live on the Road.

0:14:11.120 --> 0:14:15.040
<v Speaker 2>You know, there's no downsides. Everyone I know who lives

0:14:15.040 --> 0:14:19.280
<v Speaker 2>in an RV is happy. It always goes well, it

0:14:19.320 --> 0:14:23.440
<v Speaker 2>never goes badly. RVs are well made, they don't break immediately.

0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:27.080
<v Speaker 1>I can't tell you the amount of times Robert suggested

0:14:27.120 --> 0:14:28.680
<v Speaker 1>we get in a podcast.

0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:30.840
<v Speaker 2>I think I think we should get a fleet of

0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:35.840
<v Speaker 2>RV Could I could be a podcast commodore, Thank you Jack.

0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:38.720
<v Speaker 3>Yes, just like a moving podcast studio. You just need

0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:41.720
<v Speaker 3>like a small podcast studio to justify it, and then

0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:44.600
<v Speaker 3>everything else is just sorry. Sophie is so mad at

0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:45.760
<v Speaker 3>me for entertaining this.

0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:49.280
<v Speaker 2>Like, oh, I love this idea we can cook lizards

0:14:49.320 --> 0:14:51.640
<v Speaker 2>over open fires, Like mad Max. I think it's a

0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:52.160
<v Speaker 2>good idea.

0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:54.200
<v Speaker 3>It's just a thing that I can't get my wife

0:14:54.240 --> 0:14:56.880
<v Speaker 3>to agree to, and so I'm like, oh, you should

0:14:56.920 --> 0:14:57.480
<v Speaker 3>expense it.

0:14:57.560 --> 0:15:00.600
<v Speaker 2>I mean, people, a lot of people are really hesitant

0:15:00.600 --> 0:15:07.360
<v Speaker 2>to let their children live in a roaming RV. Come, okay, excellent, no,

0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:11.040
<v Speaker 2>very good. So most of the sources I have found

0:15:11.120 --> 0:15:15.640
<v Speaker 2>identify the islands Gari's first contact with Europeans as coming

0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:20.000
<v Speaker 2>with the arrival of the notorious Captain James Cook. That said,

0:15:20.040 --> 0:15:23.440
<v Speaker 2>there's evidence of several centuries of a regular contact with

0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:26.960
<v Speaker 2>Europeans prior to James Cook showing up. This would have

0:15:27.000 --> 0:15:31.640
<v Speaker 2>begun with Portuguese sailors around fifteen hundred, and there's evidence

0:15:31.680 --> 0:15:34.960
<v Speaker 2>of some trade or other exchange of materials in Spanish

0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:37.000
<v Speaker 2>lead that was found on the island, also dating from

0:15:37.000 --> 0:15:39.400
<v Speaker 2>around fifteen hundred. It's a little hard to say. There's

0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:42.160
<v Speaker 2>also like clay pipes that were made by the Dutch

0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:44.920
<v Speaker 2>that would have come from the sixteen hundreds, but we

0:15:44.960 --> 0:15:47.640
<v Speaker 2>don't really know. Does that mean that those people like

0:15:47.800 --> 0:15:50.840
<v Speaker 2>Europeans were landing on the island and training directly, or

0:15:51.400 --> 0:15:53.440
<v Speaker 2>that people who lived on the island who we know

0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:56.360
<v Speaker 2>went back to the mainland periodically throughout the year. We're

0:15:56.400 --> 0:16:00.480
<v Speaker 2>trading with other different groups of Aboriginal people who were

0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:03.240
<v Speaker 2>themselves trading with these other Europeans, right, we don't really

0:16:03.280 --> 0:16:06.760
<v Speaker 2>know that. As one of my sources, an article by

0:16:06.760 --> 0:16:10.240
<v Speaker 2>the Fraser Island Defenders Association notes this could simply be

0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:12.960
<v Speaker 2>yet evidence of trade between Gari and people with other

0:16:13.000 --> 0:16:16.240
<v Speaker 2>parts of Australia. Over the generation, some of the peoples

0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:19.400
<v Speaker 2>of this island developed a spiritual cosmology and a set

0:16:19.400 --> 0:16:22.320
<v Speaker 2>of rituals around death that would later get them slandered

0:16:22.360 --> 0:16:25.680
<v Speaker 2>as cannibals. And this is again something that I found

0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:29.280
<v Speaker 2>in sort of anthropological studies. I don't think this is

0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:32.760
<v Speaker 2>something that is known to at there's some debate on this,

0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:35.560
<v Speaker 2>but there's some evidence that here, as well as in

0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:40.120
<v Speaker 2>other places, when people's loved ones died, there was a

0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:45.680
<v Speaker 2>degree of funerary cannibalism practiced, right. And another thing that

0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:47.320
<v Speaker 2>was done that we know that was done was that

0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:51.120
<v Speaker 2>like when people's loved ones died, they would be skinned

0:16:51.200 --> 0:16:54.800
<v Speaker 2>by their family members before being buried, leaving what was

0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:57.720
<v Speaker 2>called the true skin behind, which is like, as best

0:16:57.720 --> 0:17:00.240
<v Speaker 2>as I can tell, like the fascia underneath your skin,

0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:02.400
<v Speaker 2>which is kind of a shade of white.

0:17:02.560 --> 0:17:02.720
<v Speaker 3>Right.

0:17:02.760 --> 0:17:05.840
<v Speaker 2>It's this like white colored substance between your skin and muscles.

0:17:06.280 --> 0:17:11.080
<v Speaker 2>And as a result, white skin became associated with the dead. Right,

0:17:11.160 --> 0:17:13.880
<v Speaker 2>So this is like part of a ritual for you know,

0:17:14.160 --> 0:17:19.280
<v Speaker 2>burying your loved ones, and this kind of like whiteness,

0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:21.000
<v Speaker 2>and when they see white people later they will be

0:17:21.040 --> 0:17:24.760
<v Speaker 2>associated with the dead right and with death. Not entirely wrong,

0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:30.080
<v Speaker 2>not entirely accurate. Kind of a helpful coincidence, yeah, in

0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:33.800
<v Speaker 2>some ways. Yeah, As a paper from the Anthropological Museum

0:17:33.840 --> 0:17:37.520
<v Speaker 2>of Queensland, edited by doctor Peter Lower describes, after this

0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:40.520
<v Speaker 2>ritual was finished, quote, certain sacred portions of the deceased

0:17:40.520 --> 0:17:44.680
<v Speaker 2>had been ceremoniously consumed by relatives. Carefully executed funeral rights

0:17:44.720 --> 0:17:47.320
<v Speaker 2>would ensure that the spirit, like a cold wind, left

0:17:47.320 --> 0:17:52.560
<v Speaker 2>the body before it was interred. According to Aboriginal informant Geyerbau,

0:17:52.760 --> 0:17:56.080
<v Speaker 2>the Butchalla believe that on the following day the spirit returned,

0:17:56.280 --> 0:17:59.120
<v Speaker 2>then the relatives would accompany it to a certain rock

0:17:59.160 --> 0:18:01.760
<v Speaker 2>at bari Eba, which bore the impress of the foot

0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:04.840
<v Speaker 2>of Bahraal, their ancestral being left behind when he had

0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:06.880
<v Speaker 2>leapt out over the sea on his way to the sky,

0:18:07.040 --> 0:18:09.320
<v Speaker 2>and from which place the spirits of their dead also

0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:12.720
<v Speaker 2>followed him to the sky country. Two men, specially posted

0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:14.439
<v Speaker 2>one at either side of the rock, would watch for

0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:17.760
<v Speaker 2>the spirits release. If they witnessed the spirits jumping off,

0:18:18.040 --> 0:18:20.200
<v Speaker 2>they would light a fire to make smoke in order

0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:22.560
<v Speaker 2>to prevent the spirit from coming back to frighten the people.

0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:24.679
<v Speaker 2>They believe that everyone went to the same place, and

0:18:24.720 --> 0:18:26.960
<v Speaker 2>that apart from their homeland and the lands of other tribes,

0:18:26.960 --> 0:18:31.280
<v Speaker 2>they knew there was no other place. So again, this

0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:36.560
<v Speaker 2>is like you know, some older anthropology, but it corresponds

0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:38.680
<v Speaker 2>with a lot of other stuff in history right now.

0:18:38.680 --> 0:18:42.919
<v Speaker 2>And there's some controversy here because allegations of cannibalism, not

0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:47.480
<v Speaker 2>just for the people of Ghari, but for like all

0:18:47.520 --> 0:18:50.720
<v Speaker 2>of the different Aboriginal peoples in Australia will be used

0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:55.040
<v Speaker 2>by Europeans as justifications for some pretty hideous acts of genocide,

0:18:55.040 --> 0:18:58.320
<v Speaker 2>which has led to understandable pushback by modern day descendants

0:18:58.320 --> 0:19:00.880
<v Speaker 2>of these people to assert that this is not an

0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:04.919
<v Speaker 2>or accurate characterization of their ancestors. And usually what the

0:19:04.920 --> 0:19:07.159
<v Speaker 2>Europeans are accusing them of doing is like hunting and

0:19:07.240 --> 0:19:11.879
<v Speaker 2>eating white people right like a as like a predatory act.

0:19:13.119 --> 0:19:16.960
<v Speaker 2>And this is like basically, all of these accounts are

0:19:17.080 --> 0:19:18.919
<v Speaker 2>our lives, and we'll talk a little bit about how

0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:21.480
<v Speaker 2>a lot of these lives come up that said funerary

0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:24.840
<v Speaker 2>cannibalism was engaged in by many peoples of this area

0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:27.359
<v Speaker 2>and all over the world. It is in fact nearly

0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:30.560
<v Speaker 2>a universal human practice if you go back far enough

0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:33.480
<v Speaker 2>anywhere on Earth. This is not the act of consuming

0:19:33.520 --> 0:19:36.200
<v Speaker 2>people for food or even eating defeated enemies, both of

0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:39.360
<v Speaker 2>which you can find different civilizations engaged in throughout history.

0:19:39.720 --> 0:19:43.000
<v Speaker 2>Funerary cannibalism is something very different, and you might best

0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:45.600
<v Speaker 2>compare it to something that many people in the West,

0:19:45.680 --> 0:19:48.200
<v Speaker 2>including some people that I know, do today, which is

0:19:48.240 --> 0:19:52.000
<v Speaker 2>having their body composted. It used to soil to grow things. Right,

0:19:53.000 --> 0:19:55.440
<v Speaker 2>there are services people use that for today, and there's

0:19:55.880 --> 0:19:59.040
<v Speaker 2>there's something kind of powerful here, both in a refusal

0:19:59.080 --> 0:20:01.520
<v Speaker 2>to totally let go of a dead loved one and

0:20:01.560 --> 0:20:04.479
<v Speaker 2>a desire to keep a piece of them alive with

0:20:04.600 --> 0:20:08.960
<v Speaker 2>you in some way. Funerary cannibalism was a common practice

0:20:08.960 --> 0:20:11.920
<v Speaker 2>in England about fifteen thousand years ago, and evidence of

0:20:11.960 --> 0:20:15.080
<v Speaker 2>similar practices has been found in Ireland and Germany, in

0:20:15.119 --> 0:20:20.600
<v Speaker 2>the UK and Russia, Belgium, Portugal, basically everywhere. Right, you

0:20:20.640 --> 0:20:24.240
<v Speaker 2>can find evidence of this in almost every like human

0:20:24.280 --> 0:20:26.159
<v Speaker 2>civilization on Earth if you go back far.

0:20:26.040 --> 0:20:28.720
<v Speaker 3>And it kind of seems like a somewhat sophisticated idea,

0:20:28.760 --> 0:20:31.800
<v Speaker 3>the idea of like you are turned into energy, like

0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:36.280
<v Speaker 3>it's not necessarily like dust to dust, as the Whites

0:20:36.359 --> 0:20:39.120
<v Speaker 3>like to say, you actually could be turned into energy,

0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:41.840
<v Speaker 3>and you know, you became a part of us that

0:20:41.920 --> 0:20:45.000
<v Speaker 3>a plant grows out of that gets eaten. And you know,

0:20:46.520 --> 0:20:48.240
<v Speaker 3>I will say also as somebody who grew up in

0:20:48.320 --> 0:20:57.359
<v Speaker 3>a strict Catholic household, cannibalism is not uncommon in the

0:20:57.400 --> 0:21:02.040
<v Speaker 3>Western world, like they live for people who don't know Catholicism,

0:21:02.080 --> 0:21:04.960
<v Speaker 3>Like they believe that they're you know, they're they're doing

0:21:04.960 --> 0:21:07.639
<v Speaker 3>the sacrament up on the altar. Uh, they ring a

0:21:07.640 --> 0:21:11.560
<v Speaker 3>little bell and at that point, the bread and wine

0:21:11.920 --> 0:21:18.399
<v Speaker 3>literally turns into Jesus' like body and blood. Yeah, like

0:21:18.440 --> 0:21:21.600
<v Speaker 3>that's what they think is happening. Yeah, I've tasted it.

0:21:21.600 --> 0:21:26.200
<v Speaker 3>It's not Actually I don't want to anything for anybody,

0:21:26.359 --> 0:21:31.679
<v Speaker 3>but it's uh yeah yeah, So I don't know, like

0:21:31.680 --> 0:21:35.720
<v Speaker 3>like having fantasies of cannibalism that are supposed to be

0:21:35.800 --> 0:21:39.760
<v Speaker 3>literal cannibalism at the center of your spiritual beliefs. But

0:21:39.800 --> 0:21:40.840
<v Speaker 3>then every.

0:21:43.560 --> 0:21:45.920
<v Speaker 2>Right, the way they do it's bad though. Is it

0:21:46.080 --> 0:21:49.359
<v Speaker 2>just like a small piece of like a love That's

0:21:49.480 --> 0:21:52.840
<v Speaker 2>what it sounds like based on the reading that I've done. Uh,

0:21:53.240 --> 0:21:55.320
<v Speaker 2>And I mean it varies from place to place.

0:21:55.400 --> 0:21:55.520
<v Speaker 3>Right.

0:21:55.560 --> 0:21:57.560
<v Speaker 2>Again, this is something that we found evidence of in

0:21:57.640 --> 0:22:00.560
<v Speaker 2>every continent, right, so, like you know, different and different

0:22:00.600 --> 0:22:04.080
<v Speaker 2>groups of people probably had different attitudes is like which

0:22:04.119 --> 0:22:06.160
<v Speaker 2>parts and how you do it, But it's a thing

0:22:06.200 --> 0:22:09.639
<v Speaker 2>that occurs basically everywhere, right, And so this real practice

0:22:09.960 --> 0:22:12.560
<v Speaker 2>is going to be part of like what gets spun

0:22:12.600 --> 0:22:16.840
<v Speaker 2>out into these lurid stories of like predatory cannibalistic behavior

0:22:16.880 --> 0:22:19.480
<v Speaker 2>that are one of the pretexts for the genocide that's

0:22:19.520 --> 0:22:21.879
<v Speaker 2>going to come, right, Which is why talking about this

0:22:21.920 --> 0:22:23.760
<v Speaker 2>at all. There's a lot of aspects of this that

0:22:23.800 --> 0:22:27.439
<v Speaker 2>are really problematic, and there's some other real practices that

0:22:27.480 --> 0:22:32.440
<v Speaker 2>get misinterpreted and exaggerated. For one thing, infanticide, right, there

0:22:32.480 --> 0:22:36.240
<v Speaker 2>were like during times of starvation, and again this is

0:22:36.280 --> 0:22:39.080
<v Speaker 2>not just something that Aboriginal people did in Australia. This

0:22:39.160 --> 0:22:43.320
<v Speaker 2>is something all throughout human civilization. When everyone is starving

0:22:43.359 --> 0:22:47.080
<v Speaker 2>to death, sometimes you kill a newborn baby because it's

0:22:47.080 --> 0:22:49.720
<v Speaker 2>not going to be able to survive. Right, Yeah, Like

0:22:49.960 --> 0:22:52.679
<v Speaker 2>we are talking about people who are living and with

0:22:52.800 --> 0:22:55.119
<v Speaker 2>wildly different margins than we can conceive of, and the

0:22:55.119 --> 0:22:58.240
<v Speaker 2>purpose here is not cruelty or some dark ritual which

0:22:58.280 --> 0:23:00.440
<v Speaker 2>is again what it often got spun out that they're

0:23:00.440 --> 0:23:03.760
<v Speaker 2>doing this for some sort of magic purpose. This is survival, right,

0:23:03.800 --> 0:23:05.280
<v Speaker 2>there's simply not enough food.

0:23:05.520 --> 0:23:05.720
<v Speaker 3>Right.

0:23:06.359 --> 0:23:09.320
<v Speaker 2>Everyone who has ever lived has relatives, if you go

0:23:09.440 --> 0:23:11.480
<v Speaker 2>far back enough, who had to make choices like this

0:23:12.000 --> 0:23:16.920
<v Speaker 2>because it's it's hard to live as a fucking like yeah,

0:23:16.960 --> 0:23:17.600
<v Speaker 2>and almost like a.

0:23:17.640 --> 0:23:21.040
<v Speaker 3>Mercier kissing in some cases, right, like like they're going

0:23:21.080 --> 0:23:21.840
<v Speaker 3>to starve to death.

0:23:21.960 --> 0:23:24.439
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if we're going to live. This baby

0:23:24.560 --> 0:23:27.680
<v Speaker 2>certainly can't, right, and so you you know, but what

0:23:27.720 --> 0:23:29.639
<v Speaker 2>you have is you have these people who are calling

0:23:29.640 --> 0:23:33.440
<v Speaker 2>themselves anthropologists, these Europeans traveling you know, through the continent,

0:23:33.920 --> 0:23:38.320
<v Speaker 2>and who find evidence of this, and they're not really anthropologists.

0:23:38.320 --> 0:23:40.680
<v Speaker 2>They're usually just like people with who are kind of

0:23:40.800 --> 0:23:42.919
<v Speaker 2>rich and so decide they do that as a hobby

0:23:43.440 --> 0:23:46.720
<v Speaker 2>and they wind up having their own biases or their

0:23:46.760 --> 0:23:49.320
<v Speaker 2>own bigotry, and they just kind of like weave this

0:23:49.440 --> 0:23:54.080
<v Speaker 2>story into ongoing narratives about how dangerous these people are, right,

0:23:54.680 --> 0:23:56.640
<v Speaker 2>And so this thing that's like, well, yeah, sometimes people

0:23:56.640 --> 0:23:58.880
<v Speaker 2>who are starving have to make hard choices gets turned

0:23:58.880 --> 0:24:03.959
<v Speaker 2>into something else. I found an article on aboriginal Cannibalism

0:24:04.000 --> 0:24:07.320
<v Speaker 2>in Queensland on the University of Queensland's website, written by E. G.

0:24:07.600 --> 0:24:10.479
<v Speaker 2>Heap in nineteen sixty seven, so this would have been

0:24:10.520 --> 0:24:13.040
<v Speaker 2>published at close to the peak of days of racist

0:24:13.040 --> 0:24:16.520
<v Speaker 2>anthropology on this matter. And even in this article the

0:24:16.560 --> 0:24:20.600
<v Speaker 2>author repeatedly points out how incredibly thin the actual evidence

0:24:20.720 --> 0:24:23.600
<v Speaker 2>is for many of the cannibalistic practices that were claimed

0:24:23.640 --> 0:24:28.040
<v Speaker 2>to be universal. Quote Thomas, who's one of the anthropologists

0:24:28.080 --> 0:24:30.520
<v Speaker 2>in this period, recorded a case on the Gascoyne River

0:24:30.560 --> 0:24:33.200
<v Speaker 2>in Western Australia where an Aboriginal girl was eaten and

0:24:33.280 --> 0:24:35.399
<v Speaker 2>killed and eaten by a native who decoyed her away.

0:24:35.600 --> 0:24:37.760
<v Speaker 2>She was very plump. The object of killing her was

0:24:37.800 --> 0:24:42.440
<v Speaker 2>to acquire this desirable quality. Bleekel, who's another scientist, also

0:24:42.480 --> 0:24:44.800
<v Speaker 2>referred to rare cases of the killing and eating of

0:24:44.800 --> 0:24:47.159
<v Speaker 2>a young girl on a special ritual occasion. But his

0:24:47.200 --> 0:24:50.119
<v Speaker 2>information is not documented. And that's the thing that you

0:24:50.200 --> 0:24:52.399
<v Speaker 2>find over and over again is like, here's this lurid

0:24:52.440 --> 0:24:55.600
<v Speaker 2>claim of someone being like eaten for this like ritual purpose.

0:24:55.760 --> 0:24:58.160
<v Speaker 2>There's no evidence that this happened, right, Look.

0:24:58.119 --> 0:24:58.960
<v Speaker 3>It's actually no.

0:25:00.600 --> 0:25:03.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we got to put this in some art, some

0:25:03.080 --> 0:25:07.280
<v Speaker 2>newspaper articles, right yeah. And it's the same thing with

0:25:07.359 --> 0:25:09.480
<v Speaker 2>like these claims about the killing and eating of white

0:25:09.520 --> 0:25:12.920
<v Speaker 2>settlers by by these people, right, like, where a lot

0:25:12.960 --> 0:25:15.800
<v Speaker 2>of these claims there's simply like not any evidence of

0:25:16.200 --> 0:25:19.320
<v Speaker 2>there's evidence of like sometimes like people will be killed

0:25:19.440 --> 0:25:22.280
<v Speaker 2>and their bodies will be left out and animals will

0:25:22.320 --> 0:25:24.239
<v Speaker 2>get to them. But people will be like, oh, well,

0:25:24.240 --> 0:25:27.119
<v Speaker 2>they must have been eaten after they were murdered, right, Like,

0:25:27.240 --> 0:25:30.480
<v Speaker 2>stuff like that happens a lot too. I presume there

0:25:30.480 --> 0:25:33.879
<v Speaker 2>are some cases of like people eating parts of defeated enemies,

0:25:33.880 --> 0:25:35.720
<v Speaker 2>and because that happens in various parts of the world,

0:25:35.800 --> 0:25:38.480
<v Speaker 2>so maybe that's the case. But again, over and over

0:25:38.520 --> 0:25:41.199
<v Speaker 2>again reading this paper, it's just here's this like lurid

0:25:41.320 --> 0:25:42.800
<v Speaker 2>story and there's no evidence.

0:25:43.800 --> 0:25:46.719
<v Speaker 3>Those animals are so fucked up, I can't believe they

0:25:46.800 --> 0:25:47.040
<v Speaker 3>did that.

0:25:47.640 --> 0:25:52.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's like the explanation behind the dial ato paths.

0:25:53.320 --> 0:25:57.160
<v Speaker 3>Yeah yeah, right, like monster must have eaten them. Their

0:25:57.240 --> 0:26:00.400
<v Speaker 3>tongues were missing, yeah, eyes were missing. It's like, yeah,

0:26:00.400 --> 0:26:02.359
<v Speaker 3>those are the soft there's animals.

0:26:02.520 --> 0:26:04.040
<v Speaker 2>And they're hungry because it's snowy.

0:26:04.480 --> 0:26:04.720
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:26:06.720 --> 0:26:09.040
<v Speaker 2>And when I looked into this paper more because like

0:26:09.119 --> 0:26:10.960
<v Speaker 2>I found a bunch of cases where it's like, Okay,

0:26:10.960 --> 0:26:14.040
<v Speaker 2>here's a larid story and he says and there's no evidence.

0:26:14.080 --> 0:26:15.639
<v Speaker 2>So I decided to look at more into some of

0:26:15.680 --> 0:26:19.200
<v Speaker 2>the sources for this paper who were making claims about cannibalism.

0:26:19.480 --> 0:26:21.800
<v Speaker 2>And a major source in this paper is a woman

0:26:21.880 --> 0:26:25.760
<v Speaker 2>named Daisy May Bates. Bates was an Irish woman and

0:26:25.800 --> 0:26:30.200
<v Speaker 2>again a self taught anthropologist who expressed a mystic the

0:26:30.240 --> 0:26:33.159
<v Speaker 2>best kind. And she's kind of wandering around in like

0:26:33.240 --> 0:26:37.280
<v Speaker 2>the eighteen hundreds, oh sorry, in the late eighteen hundreds

0:26:37.280 --> 0:26:41.040
<v Speaker 2>and early nineteen hundreds, and she's this mix of this

0:26:41.119 --> 0:26:45.679
<v Speaker 2>kind of like paternalistic sympathy towards aboriginal people, right, but

0:26:45.840 --> 0:26:49.120
<v Speaker 2>also a lot of bigotry. And she becomes maybe the

0:26:49.160 --> 0:26:54.119
<v Speaker 2>primary source during this period of claims about cannibalism. And

0:26:54.240 --> 0:26:57.919
<v Speaker 2>it sounds reliable, sounds reliable. It's one of those things,

0:26:58.440 --> 0:27:01.919
<v Speaker 2>and this is awful. What's frustrating. Discard everything she says,

0:27:02.160 --> 0:27:05.040
<v Speaker 2>because she is one of the only sources of like

0:27:05.080 --> 0:27:08.040
<v Speaker 2>ethnographic research we have on some some of these groups

0:27:08.040 --> 0:27:10.800
<v Speaker 2>of people from this period of time. But we also

0:27:11.040 --> 0:27:13.080
<v Speaker 2>know that she lies a lot. And in fact, I

0:27:13.119 --> 0:27:16.320
<v Speaker 2>found historian Bob Reese is like, she does good work

0:27:16.359 --> 0:27:20.200
<v Speaker 2>in some things quote with the notable exception of cannibalism. Basically,

0:27:20.359 --> 0:27:22.680
<v Speaker 2>you can't listen to anything she says when she brings

0:27:22.760 --> 0:27:25.600
<v Speaker 2>up cannibalism, right, like the stuff she has to say about,

0:27:25.640 --> 0:27:28.159
<v Speaker 2>like languages and stuff that's useful with the second she

0:27:28.200 --> 0:27:31.200
<v Speaker 2>brings up cannibalism, turn your brain off. She's full of shit,

0:27:32.640 --> 0:27:34.600
<v Speaker 2>which kind of makes me question the other stuff. But

0:27:34.640 --> 0:27:40.399
<v Speaker 2>I'm not an anthropologist like her, so baits this. This lady,

0:27:40.720 --> 0:27:44.359
<v Speaker 2>this cannibalism obsessed lady is a monarchist and an anti

0:27:44.480 --> 0:27:48.240
<v Speaker 2>union activist as well, so I'm not primed to like her.

0:27:49.400 --> 0:27:52.680
<v Speaker 2>She seems to have grown up obsession, act like she's

0:27:52.720 --> 0:27:55.360
<v Speaker 2>one of these people. Maybe I'll do another I might

0:27:55.440 --> 0:27:57.119
<v Speaker 2>want to do an episode on her at some point.

0:27:57.320 --> 0:28:00.280
<v Speaker 2>She's got a long history of like lying about her background,

0:28:00.320 --> 0:28:02.840
<v Speaker 2>like pretending to have come from a different place than

0:28:02.880 --> 0:28:05.080
<v Speaker 2>she did and be a different person that she is.

0:28:06.200 --> 0:28:09.960
<v Speaker 2>And she's got like she's obsessed with cannibalism. Kind of

0:28:10.200 --> 0:28:12.760
<v Speaker 2>later in life it becomes One historian describes it as

0:28:12.800 --> 0:28:16.560
<v Speaker 2>a fixation, which gets worse as she ages and she

0:28:16.600 --> 0:28:19.439
<v Speaker 2>starts to suffer from dementia. So she's like continuing to

0:28:19.480 --> 0:28:23.080
<v Speaker 2>work as an elderly woman getting increasingly crazy and obsessed

0:28:23.119 --> 0:28:23.960
<v Speaker 2>with cannibalism.

0:28:25.119 --> 0:28:30.720
<v Speaker 3>She could literally be the president right now. Yes, monarchist, racist,

0:28:31.359 --> 0:28:35.240
<v Speaker 3>like fucking making things up about her background, like was

0:28:35.280 --> 0:28:36.440
<v Speaker 3>she a time traveler?

0:28:37.000 --> 0:28:41.680
<v Speaker 2>No, No, she's just a very modern figure administration from dementia.

0:28:41.880 --> 0:28:43.200
<v Speaker 3>Jesus, he would have made.

0:28:43.040 --> 0:28:45.080
<v Speaker 2>Her the fucking ambassador to Australia.

0:28:46.640 --> 0:28:49.280
<v Speaker 3>Believes that she's qualified to do a job that she

0:28:49.400 --> 0:28:51.400
<v Speaker 3>is in no way qualified.

0:28:50.840 --> 0:28:54.920
<v Speaker 2>To do, honestly iconic, so ahead of her time. I

0:28:54.960 --> 0:28:56.600
<v Speaker 2>talked to you a little bit earlier about how some

0:28:56.800 --> 0:28:59.280
<v Speaker 2>like some of these peoples during times of starvation would

0:28:59.320 --> 0:29:01.360
<v Speaker 2>practice and fans decide right, which is again the thing

0:29:01.400 --> 0:29:03.720
<v Speaker 2>you see all over the world. Baits is the person

0:29:03.720 --> 0:29:07.120
<v Speaker 2>who spins that into claiming that they're doing infant cannibalism, right,

0:29:07.200 --> 0:29:10.080
<v Speaker 2>and she is the primary source in this period, is

0:29:10.160 --> 0:29:12.840
<v Speaker 2>like claiming that that is a thing that's happening. She

0:29:12.920 --> 0:29:17.160
<v Speaker 2>writes dozens of articles in newspapers about this practice, and

0:29:17.200 --> 0:29:20.479
<v Speaker 2>in nineteen twenty came claimed to have received the bones

0:29:20.520 --> 0:29:22.800
<v Speaker 2>of a baby that had been cooked and eaten by

0:29:22.840 --> 0:29:26.960
<v Speaker 2>its pregnant Aboriginal mother. Right the bones were you want

0:29:26.960 --> 0:29:28.320
<v Speaker 2>to guess what the bones came from?

0:29:29.320 --> 0:29:31.120
<v Speaker 3>Ooh dog cat?

0:29:31.640 --> 0:29:35.120
<v Speaker 2>Ah, you were close your quest Jack, Yeah, fucking cat bones.

0:29:35.240 --> 0:29:38.840
<v Speaker 2>She's lying about a cat bones being a cannibalized baby,

0:29:39.040 --> 0:29:45.280
<v Speaker 2>speaking of eating cats. Don't do that. Listen to these ads.

0:29:46.160 --> 0:29:48.200
<v Speaker 3>I thought the advertiser was.

0:29:50.200 --> 0:30:01.560
<v Speaker 2>Hello Fresh as a new product line. We're back and

0:30:01.920 --> 0:30:06.520
<v Speaker 2>our lawyers have sent I I'm not a loud to

0:30:06.600 --> 0:30:09.720
<v Speaker 2>accuse HelloFresh of serving cat meat.

0:30:09.960 --> 0:30:10.240
<v Speaker 1>Uh.

0:30:10.440 --> 0:30:13.640
<v Speaker 2>You know, until the court case finishes one way or

0:30:13.680 --> 0:30:17.760
<v Speaker 2>the other, we can't prove that they ate cat meat. Uh,

0:30:18.040 --> 0:30:21.880
<v Speaker 2>certainly can't prove it. And you know, are their allegations

0:30:22.040 --> 0:30:26.080
<v Speaker 2>that they serve cat meat are now absolutely now there

0:30:26.120 --> 0:30:28.560
<v Speaker 2>are for sure your cat. We can't prove it.

0:30:28.720 --> 0:30:30.800
<v Speaker 1>Your cats just sent me a text message and they're

0:30:30.880 --> 0:30:32.280
<v Speaker 1>uncomfortable with this conversation.

0:30:32.760 --> 0:30:35.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well they do look delicious.

0:30:35.320 --> 0:30:36.480
<v Speaker 3>O my god.

0:30:36.360 --> 0:30:38.880
<v Speaker 1>Leaves the diamonds best friend.

0:30:38.920 --> 0:30:42.480
<v Speaker 2>Although well they've gotten fat lately. You know, they have

0:30:42.560 --> 0:30:43.160
<v Speaker 2>a good diet.

0:30:43.360 --> 0:30:46.920
<v Speaker 3>I'm just saying, yeah, I think they look great in

0:30:47.240 --> 0:30:47.840
<v Speaker 3>your meen.

0:30:49.040 --> 0:30:50.400
<v Speaker 2>That's right, that's I am.

0:30:50.840 --> 0:30:53.200
<v Speaker 3>And when Sophie says they look great, she means they

0:30:53.200 --> 0:30:54.880
<v Speaker 3>look like big cartoon hamlegs.

0:30:55.120 --> 0:30:57.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's that's what they look to me. I didn't

0:30:57.280 --> 0:30:59.200
<v Speaker 2>have breakfast today, so I'm just I'm just looking at

0:30:59.200 --> 0:31:00.120
<v Speaker 2>everything that way.

0:31:01.800 --> 0:31:04.800
<v Speaker 3>So, by the way, it's three in the afternoon, everybody,

0:31:05.280 --> 0:31:07.360
<v Speaker 3>just so you know what, what kind of hours Robert

0:31:07.480 --> 0:31:09.520
<v Speaker 3>Keeves the audience.

0:31:10.720 --> 0:31:12.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they're aware by this point.

0:31:12.760 --> 0:31:13.120
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:31:13.160 --> 0:31:14.960
<v Speaker 2>For an example of the kind of shit Baits was

0:31:15.000 --> 0:31:17.560
<v Speaker 2>writing in newspapers at this period of time, here's a

0:31:17.600 --> 0:31:21.080
<v Speaker 2>direct quote from her. I use the word cannibal advisedly.

0:31:21.280 --> 0:31:24.200
<v Speaker 2>Every one of these natives was a cannibal. Cannibalism had

0:31:24.200 --> 0:31:26.959
<v Speaker 2>its local name from Kimberly to Ucla and through all

0:31:27.000 --> 0:31:29.320
<v Speaker 2>the unoccupied country east of it, and there were many

0:31:29.360 --> 0:31:32.480
<v Speaker 2>grisly rights attached there too. Human meat had always been

0:31:32.520 --> 0:31:36.000
<v Speaker 2>their favorite food, and there were killing vendettas from time immemorial.

0:31:36.200 --> 0:31:38.840
<v Speaker 2>In order that the killing should be safe murderers, slippers

0:31:38.920 --> 0:31:41.920
<v Speaker 2>or pads were made Emu feathers twisted and twined together,

0:31:42.000 --> 0:31:44.080
<v Speaker 2>bound to the foot with human hair, on which the

0:31:44.160 --> 0:31:46.560
<v Speaker 2>natives walk and run as easily as a white man,

0:31:46.560 --> 0:31:48.840
<v Speaker 2>and running shoes their feet leaving no track.

0:31:49.880 --> 0:31:52.240
<v Speaker 3>So what does that have to do with Like, she's

0:31:52.320 --> 0:31:55.800
<v Speaker 3>just describing things that they have, like tools that they

0:31:55.880 --> 0:31:58.240
<v Speaker 3>have and being like, yeah, I'm sure they have like

0:31:58.400 --> 0:32:01.240
<v Speaker 3>shoes that allow them to move quiet, because that's useful

0:32:01.240 --> 0:32:04.520
<v Speaker 3>when you're hunting or in war. She's just like that

0:32:04.600 --> 0:32:07.440
<v Speaker 3>must be because they are trying to eat people.

0:32:07.760 --> 0:32:11.280
<v Speaker 2>And like, again you can find like actual debate between

0:32:11.440 --> 0:32:15.600
<v Speaker 2>you know, actual anthropologists about the different kinds of cannibalism

0:32:15.600 --> 0:32:17.400
<v Speaker 2>that may or may not have been practiced here. No

0:32:17.440 --> 0:32:20.880
<v Speaker 2>one agrees everyone was a cannibal. It was not the norm.

0:32:21.120 --> 0:32:23.960
<v Speaker 2>It was not wildly common, it was not certainly not

0:32:24.560 --> 0:32:29.080
<v Speaker 2>like your favorite it was normal, right, like whether it

0:32:29.160 --> 0:32:31.640
<v Speaker 2>was practiced in some groups or not. Again, there's there's

0:32:31.760 --> 0:32:34.240
<v Speaker 2>argument there, but it was like what she is saying

0:32:34.280 --> 0:32:36.320
<v Speaker 2>is a complete lie that she's made up because she's

0:32:36.360 --> 0:32:38.560
<v Speaker 2>gone crazy, and it's very racist.

0:32:39.080 --> 0:32:41.440
<v Speaker 3>They like cannibalism so much, they like try and marry it.

0:32:41.520 --> 0:32:44.280
<v Speaker 3>They weren't very cannibalism. It's their best friend.

0:32:44.440 --> 0:32:49.120
<v Speaker 2>She she would have married cannibalism. Yes, yes, she's she's

0:32:49.120 --> 0:32:54.160
<v Speaker 2>a cannibalism influencer. Yeah, like what Joe Rogan is to

0:32:54.280 --> 0:32:58.800
<v Speaker 2>fucking iyahuasca, this Baits Lady is to cannibalism and allegations

0:32:58.800 --> 0:33:00.280
<v Speaker 2>of cannibalism.

0:33:00.240 --> 0:33:03.120
<v Speaker 3>So frustrating that he is the psychedelics person.

0:33:03.800 --> 0:33:06.480
<v Speaker 2>I know, I know, I've done way more fucking.

0:33:06.840 --> 0:33:09.360
<v Speaker 3>You're so much better at psychedelics, thinking you need to

0:33:09.360 --> 0:33:12.440
<v Speaker 3>take it back. This is this is our psychedelics guy,

0:33:12.600 --> 0:33:16.440
<v Speaker 3>not fucking Joe Joe Roe, Jesus Christ. Did you see a.

0:33:16.520 --> 0:33:20.280
<v Speaker 1>Special forget being the Joe Rogan of the Left? Robert's

0:33:20.280 --> 0:33:22.280
<v Speaker 1>the Psychedelics of the Left.

0:33:22.040 --> 0:33:26.200
<v Speaker 3>The psychedelics guy. Yeah, I could take steroids.

0:33:26.600 --> 0:33:28.120
<v Speaker 2>I believe in me. Yeah.

0:33:28.120 --> 0:33:30.880
<v Speaker 3>Did you see his stand up special? Or better yet,

0:33:30.920 --> 0:33:35.240
<v Speaker 3>did you see the elephant Graveyard analysis of his stand

0:33:35.280 --> 0:33:38.520
<v Speaker 3>up special? No, I will send that link to you.

0:33:38.840 --> 0:33:41.520
<v Speaker 2>I assume it's a literal elephant graveyard you're talking about.

0:33:41.560 --> 0:33:42.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm not gonna look in that more.

0:33:43.240 --> 0:33:45.120
<v Speaker 3>That's the name of the channel. But they just like

0:33:45.240 --> 0:33:48.200
<v Speaker 3>go through there like we're really excited about Joe Rogan's

0:33:48.200 --> 0:33:50.760
<v Speaker 3>stand up special and then just like go joke for

0:33:50.920 --> 0:33:54.320
<v Speaker 3>joke and they're like, oh, no, show, what.

0:33:55.920 --> 0:33:58.200
<v Speaker 2>Things have gone downhill? Since? What was he? He wasn't

0:33:58.280 --> 0:33:59.000
<v Speaker 2>on The Man Show?

0:33:59.120 --> 0:34:01.320
<v Speaker 1>Was he fear Fact here?

0:34:02.160 --> 0:34:04.160
<v Speaker 3>No fear Factor? It was Adam Carolla?

0:34:04.440 --> 0:34:07.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah, he was on that show with Andy Dick.

0:34:08.640 --> 0:34:11.640
<v Speaker 1>Frankly, too much time on Joe Rogan, continue with the script.

0:34:11.440 --> 0:34:16.239
<v Speaker 2>Please, anyway, speaking of Andy Dick, the Andy Dick of

0:34:16.320 --> 0:34:20.400
<v Speaker 2>old timey European colonizers was Captain James Cook, who was

0:34:20.440 --> 0:34:23.319
<v Speaker 2>the first Englishman to enter the recorded history of the

0:34:23.320 --> 0:34:27.799
<v Speaker 2>people of Ghari. In seventeen seventy, he first sighted the

0:34:27.800 --> 0:34:31.400
<v Speaker 2>island and reported spotting several people on the shore. He

0:34:31.480 --> 0:34:34.400
<v Speaker 2>regarded them all as Indians, and he gave the island

0:34:34.440 --> 0:34:37.920
<v Speaker 2>the name Indian Head. So this is its name after

0:34:38.000 --> 0:34:40.839
<v Speaker 2>the Great Sandy Island. So we go from well, that's

0:34:40.840 --> 0:34:44.080
<v Speaker 2>at least accurate too. Okay, we're just being racist now great,

0:34:45.280 --> 0:34:47.799
<v Speaker 2>He in a colleague debated whether or not because again

0:34:47.840 --> 0:34:50.560
<v Speaker 2>there's like notes taken on board the ship, and the

0:34:50.600 --> 0:34:53.719
<v Speaker 2>notes are that James Cook is debating with like a colleague,

0:34:53.880 --> 0:34:56.120
<v Speaker 2>whether or not the skin color of these people meant

0:34:56.120 --> 0:34:59.600
<v Speaker 2>they were a new race of humans. He was kind

0:34:59.600 --> 0:35:01.840
<v Speaker 2>of tripped up by their hair, which he was surprised

0:35:01.880 --> 0:35:06.920
<v Speaker 2>to see was quote very much like ours. Wh yeah,

0:35:07.560 --> 0:35:10.520
<v Speaker 2>out of the same stuff, yeah yeah, wow, the same

0:35:10.600 --> 0:35:12.440
<v Speaker 2>kind of hair as same dang hair.

0:35:13.040 --> 0:35:15.240
<v Speaker 3>Do you remember this article that we did at Cracked

0:35:15.280 --> 0:35:18.880
<v Speaker 3>about like the great explorers and all the just insane

0:35:19.040 --> 0:35:21.520
<v Speaker 3>lies that they told, like, well, because.

0:35:21.320 --> 0:35:23.920
<v Speaker 2>You you have to be out of your mind, and

0:35:24.000 --> 0:35:25.680
<v Speaker 2>if you're not out of your mind when you start

0:35:25.719 --> 0:35:29.640
<v Speaker 2>becoming an explorer, the months you spend dying at sea

0:35:29.719 --> 0:35:31.680
<v Speaker 2>are going to make you lose your mind.

0:35:32.080 --> 0:35:36.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, they would be. Like I saw the person like

0:35:36.800 --> 0:35:38.920
<v Speaker 3>one of them was. I think they said they have

0:35:39.120 --> 0:35:42.719
<v Speaker 3>like eyes where their shoulders were, and like mouths in

0:35:42.760 --> 0:35:45.320
<v Speaker 3>the middle of their between their niggas.

0:35:46.080 --> 0:35:48.880
<v Speaker 2>The anthropophagy, I think are the is the name of

0:35:48.920 --> 0:35:50.560
<v Speaker 2>those that circulture.

0:35:51.160 --> 0:35:53.160
<v Speaker 3>Yes, yeah, yes, yeah.

0:35:53.080 --> 0:35:55.759
<v Speaker 2>I still think they're real somewhere, but they just live

0:35:55.920 --> 0:35:59.560
<v Speaker 2>I saw one down the street from them as a kid.

0:35:59.680 --> 0:36:01.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, they just live here.

0:36:01.239 --> 0:36:01.719
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it was.

0:36:01.920 --> 0:36:08.799
<v Speaker 2>These are just like the world's best liars, Like, yeah,

0:36:06.640 --> 0:36:11.480
<v Speaker 2>I guess I would as a successful imagine because you,

0:36:11.560 --> 0:36:13.799
<v Speaker 2>like you wind up in like the center of like

0:36:13.840 --> 0:36:17.239
<v Speaker 2>a European capital, effectively in the center of their entire

0:36:17.320 --> 0:36:19.200
<v Speaker 2>media ecosystem. And you're like, so, have any of you

0:36:19.239 --> 0:36:21.200
<v Speaker 2>guys been to China? All right, I'm gonna just say

0:36:21.239 --> 0:36:24.160
<v Speaker 2>some shit. Nope, I get I can I can make

0:36:24.200 --> 0:36:25.240
<v Speaker 2>you guys believe anything.

0:36:25.360 --> 0:36:28.319
<v Speaker 3>Good news for me? They me as a God. Yeah.

0:36:28.560 --> 0:36:32.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, uh so. The Butchola are the tribe that Cook

0:36:32.480 --> 0:36:36.080
<v Speaker 2>most likely saw first because they saw him as well,

0:36:36.120 --> 0:36:37.440
<v Speaker 2>and we have This is one of the things I

0:36:37.440 --> 0:36:40.440
<v Speaker 2>find so interesting about how kind of how much fidelity

0:36:40.480 --> 0:36:43.320
<v Speaker 2>there is with their oral tradition, how good it actually

0:36:43.400 --> 0:36:46.600
<v Speaker 2>is at at getting down history. We have their record

0:36:46.800 --> 0:36:49.880
<v Speaker 2>of seeing him right. So he's writing, he's got people

0:36:49.880 --> 0:36:52.960
<v Speaker 2>on his boat writing about seeing these people, and we

0:36:53.120 --> 0:36:57.080
<v Speaker 2>have them singing about seeing his ship. Per an article

0:36:57.120 --> 0:37:00.400
<v Speaker 2>by Fiona Foley, Ala artist and scholar right for the

0:37:00.480 --> 0:37:04.560
<v Speaker 2>Queensland College of Art at Griffith University. The Boschula people

0:37:04.600 --> 0:37:06.919
<v Speaker 2>were unique because not many people in the world would

0:37:06.920 --> 0:37:09.560
<v Speaker 2>be aware. They created a song recounting what was happening

0:37:09.600 --> 0:37:11.760
<v Speaker 2>when the ship passed by our country on May twentieth

0:37:11.840 --> 0:37:14.440
<v Speaker 2>of that year. The song takes place on a volcanic

0:37:14.480 --> 0:37:17.759
<v Speaker 2>headland of Ghari to the known in Bochula as Takiwaru.

0:37:18.000 --> 0:37:19.680
<v Speaker 2>What I love about this song are the layers of

0:37:19.719 --> 0:37:23.000
<v Speaker 2>metaphors contained within one verse. The ship rose out of

0:37:23.000 --> 0:37:25.239
<v Speaker 2>the sea like a cloud and kept near land for

0:37:25.280 --> 0:37:27.600
<v Speaker 2>three or four days. One day it came in very

0:37:27.600 --> 0:37:30.560
<v Speaker 2>close to Takiwaru, and they saw many men walking around

0:37:30.600 --> 0:37:33.120
<v Speaker 2>on it. They asked each other who are these strangers?

0:37:33.200 --> 0:37:36.239
<v Speaker 2>And where are they going? So you actually get like

0:37:36.719 --> 0:37:40.239
<v Speaker 2>a little bit of you know, like this record of

0:37:40.280 --> 0:37:43.240
<v Speaker 2>like a conversation of both sides of it in this stase,

0:37:43.239 --> 0:37:45.480
<v Speaker 2>which is fairly rare when you're talking about story like

0:37:45.880 --> 0:37:48.759
<v Speaker 2>things like this, like first contact between you know, in

0:37:48.800 --> 0:37:51.279
<v Speaker 2>a digitous group and Europeans that you have like both

0:37:51.320 --> 0:37:54.359
<v Speaker 2>sides of like the very first conversation about seeing each other,

0:37:55.000 --> 0:37:56.360
<v Speaker 2>which I find really interesting.

0:37:56.560 --> 0:37:59.360
<v Speaker 3>And frequently they're like, and why do these guys smell?

0:37:59.440 --> 0:38:04.440
<v Speaker 3>Like shit? Yeah? Wow, the terrible why Like all the

0:38:04.480 --> 0:38:07.040
<v Speaker 3>European settlers just smelled. I mean, first of all, the

0:38:07.520 --> 0:38:08.960
<v Speaker 3>living off of boat.

0:38:09.040 --> 0:38:11.839
<v Speaker 2>Like they're over the side of this thing, right.

0:38:11.920 --> 0:38:15.239
<v Speaker 3>Just yeah, at first they're shitting over the side of it.

0:38:15.320 --> 0:38:17.680
<v Speaker 3>Rob By the end they're just like, I really am

0:38:17.719 --> 0:38:19.839
<v Speaker 3>so hungry, I can't even get up to the edge.

0:38:20.120 --> 0:38:23.360
<v Speaker 2>Every one of those sailors is like eighty percent GRDA

0:38:23.440 --> 0:38:27.800
<v Speaker 2>by body weights, Like they're just just stomach aller.

0:38:27.920 --> 0:38:32.319
<v Speaker 3>And like and swollen gums. That's the what ninety percent

0:38:32.400 --> 0:38:35.319
<v Speaker 3>of their body weights from? Man? Yeah, I mean that's

0:38:35.320 --> 0:38:39.120
<v Speaker 3>like even you know, I remember the that article that

0:38:39.160 --> 0:38:41.640
<v Speaker 3>I was talking about, like Marco Polo is one of them.

0:38:41.960 --> 0:38:43.920
<v Speaker 3>Is like whole claim to fame was going to China

0:38:44.080 --> 0:38:47.719
<v Speaker 3>and like becoming a great ruler in China and like

0:38:47.800 --> 0:38:50.920
<v Speaker 3>helping them fight a war. And you can go like

0:38:51.000 --> 0:38:54.279
<v Speaker 3>they were a way more advanced civilization, the most advanced civilization.

0:38:55.200 --> 0:38:57.640
<v Speaker 3>They had a they had a printing press at this point,

0:38:57.760 --> 0:38:59.759
<v Speaker 3>like well well ahead of your and so you can

0:38:59.800 --> 0:39:01.760
<v Speaker 3>like go go back and look at their written record

0:39:01.760 --> 0:39:04.799
<v Speaker 3>and like it's just crickets as far as bar goes.

0:39:04.840 --> 0:39:07.760
<v Speaker 3>But we, you know, we just trust whatever. The random

0:39:07.800 --> 0:39:11.200
<v Speaker 3>guy who you know sailed around the Bend and then

0:39:11.320 --> 0:39:13.799
<v Speaker 3>just like came back five years later and was like

0:39:14.560 --> 0:39:16.160
<v Speaker 3>China ever heard of it? Great?

0:39:16.239 --> 0:39:19.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Yeah, nope, Okay, I'm just gonna say, shit, now,

0:39:19.200 --> 0:39:21.600
<v Speaker 2>this is why I'm an Iban buttuitas Stan and not

0:39:21.719 --> 0:39:23.160
<v Speaker 2>a Marco Polo Stan.

0:39:23.480 --> 0:39:26.200
<v Speaker 3>There. Yeah cool, you always have book.

0:39:26.000 --> 0:39:29.600
<v Speaker 2>Him up, kids. He's cool. So he probably also did

0:39:29.600 --> 0:39:32.600
<v Speaker 2>some fucked up shit. Man, I'm not gonna lie. So

0:39:32.800 --> 0:39:37.160
<v Speaker 2>Fiona here, who's this Butchulla, scholar and artist who I

0:39:37.200 --> 0:39:40.719
<v Speaker 2>just quoted from, describes Cook's attempts to classify the denizens

0:39:40.760 --> 0:39:44.160
<v Speaker 2>of Gari in his decision to name the island Indian

0:39:44.200 --> 0:39:47.960
<v Speaker 2>Head as quote the first evidence of British racialization in Australia,

0:39:48.800 --> 0:39:52.440
<v Speaker 2>and cites Jody Byrd's book The Transitive Empire, which describes

0:39:52.480 --> 0:39:54.640
<v Speaker 2>this as part of a process that allowed the Empire

0:39:54.680 --> 0:39:59.160
<v Speaker 2>to quote facilitate, justify, and rationalize the state sponsored violence

0:39:59.400 --> 0:40:02.879
<v Speaker 2>that tear lane and resources and sovereignty from indigenous people. Right,

0:40:03.320 --> 0:40:06.160
<v Speaker 2>And I think that it doesn't start with the actual

0:40:06.200 --> 0:40:09.000
<v Speaker 2>colonization or with even the legal code. It starts with

0:40:09.040 --> 0:40:11.640
<v Speaker 2>this guy on a boat trying to racially categorize this

0:40:11.760 --> 0:40:14.759
<v Speaker 2>people and taking the name of their island away from

0:40:14.840 --> 0:40:18.000
<v Speaker 2>them and making it kind of a racist copy. Right

0:40:18.239 --> 0:40:20.560
<v Speaker 2>that that's the start of the process of racialization that

0:40:20.680 --> 0:40:23.920
<v Speaker 2>ends that well, it leads to genocide. It doesn't end there,

0:40:23.960 --> 0:40:27.600
<v Speaker 2>but that's a part of it. Right. So this was

0:40:27.719 --> 0:40:30.520
<v Speaker 2>just the beginning of a long process of colonial violence,

0:40:30.840 --> 0:40:33.359
<v Speaker 2>and a major chapter in that history brings us back

0:40:33.400 --> 0:40:35.520
<v Speaker 2>to the person who is the subject of these episodes,

0:40:35.520 --> 0:40:38.040
<v Speaker 2>Eliza Fraser, right to set up the rest of this

0:40:38.400 --> 0:40:41.480
<v Speaker 2>so that we could talk about old Eliza. She was

0:40:42.160 --> 0:40:47.840
<v Speaker 2>possibly born Elizabeth Slack in Worksworth, Derbyshire, and baptized on

0:40:47.880 --> 0:40:50.640
<v Speaker 2>the first of June and seventeen ninety eight, although that

0:40:50.800 --> 0:40:53.960
<v Speaker 2>is debated. One writer in the nineteen thirties described her

0:40:53.960 --> 0:40:56.400
<v Speaker 2>as coming from the Orkney Islands, and there's a number

0:40:56.400 --> 0:40:58.720
<v Speaker 2>of people who will claim she came from the Orkney Islands,

0:40:58.719 --> 0:41:01.520
<v Speaker 2>but there's not evidence of that. A great grandson of

0:41:01.520 --> 0:41:04.640
<v Speaker 2>hers in New Zealand disputed this, arguing that she was

0:41:04.640 --> 0:41:07.440
<v Speaker 2>born in Ceylon in modern Sri Lanka, where her parents

0:41:07.520 --> 0:41:10.560
<v Speaker 2>lived at the time. We do not know for certain.

0:41:10.960 --> 0:41:13.600
<v Speaker 2>The article I found claiming that she was born Elizabeth

0:41:13.600 --> 0:41:17.040
<v Speaker 2>Shack in Derbyshire was like a Derbyshire website claiming her

0:41:17.040 --> 0:41:20.560
<v Speaker 2>as like a native daughter of the town. So I

0:41:20.600 --> 0:41:23.600
<v Speaker 2>don't know. Maybe they have a little bit of an agenda.

0:41:23.760 --> 0:41:26.600
<v Speaker 3>Anyone famous, you know, we don't care. Why let's just

0:41:26.600 --> 0:41:27.480
<v Speaker 3>get someone famous.

0:41:27.480 --> 0:41:31.480
<v Speaker 2>We're scrape in the bottom of the beryl in Derbyshire, Derbyshire.

0:41:32.040 --> 0:41:35.520
<v Speaker 3>Let's go to the genocide insiders. Let's yeah, we don't

0:41:35.600 --> 0:41:36.440
<v Speaker 3>have anybody lost.

0:41:36.880 --> 0:41:39.799
<v Speaker 2>The article really gives her like a pass on some

0:41:39.960 --> 0:41:43.840
<v Speaker 2>things that I would not. But anyway, we don't know

0:41:43.960 --> 0:41:46.600
<v Speaker 2>for sure, although it does look like Derbyshire is one

0:41:46.640 --> 0:41:49.440
<v Speaker 2>of the likelier ones. We do have evidence that she

0:41:49.560 --> 0:41:52.479
<v Speaker 2>came from at least modest means, and enjoyed a good

0:41:52.600 --> 0:41:55.080
<v Speaker 2>education for her time, by which I mean as a

0:41:55.080 --> 0:41:57.680
<v Speaker 2>woman she learned to read and write in childhood, which

0:41:57.800 --> 0:42:01.280
<v Speaker 2>you know, you're not super poor generally. If that's happening

0:42:01.440 --> 0:42:02.920
<v Speaker 2>in England at this period.

0:42:02.920 --> 0:42:06.239
<v Speaker 3>Men thought that that was scientifically and physically impossible.

0:42:06.760 --> 0:42:09.040
<v Speaker 2>It's starting to change. By the time she'd been seventeen

0:42:09.120 --> 0:42:11.759
<v Speaker 2>ninety eight, is still pretty dark days for that. She

0:42:11.920 --> 0:42:14.320
<v Speaker 2>may have had a husband and at least one child

0:42:14.400 --> 0:42:18.280
<v Speaker 2>with someone else before she married Captain James Frasier. Maybe

0:42:18.320 --> 0:42:22.239
<v Speaker 2>not again, kind of some conflicting reports there, but she

0:42:22.360 --> 0:42:25.920
<v Speaker 2>marries this the sea captain whose boat, the Sterling Castle,

0:42:26.320 --> 0:42:29.160
<v Speaker 2>depending on again who you read, was either a crumbling

0:42:29.239 --> 0:42:32.000
<v Speaker 2>death trap or a relatively state of the art ship

0:42:32.040 --> 0:42:35.920
<v Speaker 2>for its time. The captain himself, her husband, is described

0:42:35.920 --> 0:42:39.000
<v Speaker 2>as either a pompous, fat old bore much of demand

0:42:39.040 --> 0:42:42.279
<v Speaker 2>by shipowners who had managed to overensure their vessels. In

0:42:42.320 --> 0:42:46.279
<v Speaker 2>other words, this guy's so incompetent you you hire him

0:42:46.320 --> 0:42:49.319
<v Speaker 2>to be a run your ship, to drunk drive your car, right,

0:42:49.760 --> 0:42:52.520
<v Speaker 2>if your insurance is good, He's going to drunk drive

0:42:52.560 --> 0:42:56.600
<v Speaker 2>your boat into oblivion. So that's one Claime about him.

0:42:56.640 --> 0:42:59.200
<v Speaker 2>I've also heard him described as urbane in his manners

0:42:59.200 --> 0:43:02.359
<v Speaker 2>and an attitude and features what is deemed a handsome man.

0:43:02.920 --> 0:43:05.319
<v Speaker 2>So either he was a drunk old boy who will

0:43:05.320 --> 0:43:07.880
<v Speaker 2>crash a ship, or he was like a handsome, you know,

0:43:08.000 --> 0:43:11.719
<v Speaker 2>polite and competent sea captain. You'll hear both stories. He's

0:43:11.760 --> 0:43:14.040
<v Speaker 2>been dead a long time. I simply don't know.

0:43:15.000 --> 0:43:18.040
<v Speaker 3>Love how mean the conflicting thing like the yeah, right,

0:43:18.080 --> 0:43:22.280
<v Speaker 3>a big fat idiot who is dumb shit, Yeah, sucks

0:43:22.320 --> 0:43:25.279
<v Speaker 3>shit at his job. And then like there's obviously the

0:43:25.320 --> 0:43:28.959
<v Speaker 3>self edited Wikipedia entry where it's like urbane in his.

0:43:29.000 --> 0:43:31.719
<v Speaker 2>Manner, right, yeah, he was, like I was handsome as shit.

0:43:32.160 --> 0:43:36.319
<v Speaker 3>Picking up subtle things about how attractive he is.

0:43:36.480 --> 0:43:39.279
<v Speaker 2>Right right, Yeah, his dick game, Like yeah, there's a

0:43:39.280 --> 0:43:44.160
<v Speaker 2>whole whole Wikipedia subcept suckset there. Yeah he was speaking

0:43:44.200 --> 0:43:46.799
<v Speaker 2>of dick game. He was fifty four and Eliza was

0:43:46.840 --> 0:43:50.760
<v Speaker 2>thirty seven when they left London on October twenty second,

0:43:50.760 --> 0:43:52.560
<v Speaker 2>eighteen thirty five, so there's a bit of an age

0:43:52.600 --> 0:43:57.880
<v Speaker 2>gap here. Now, as as is the norm for European parents,

0:43:58.040 --> 0:44:01.000
<v Speaker 2>they have no interest in parenting their and leave them

0:44:01.000 --> 0:44:04.000
<v Speaker 2>behind in Orkney to be watched over by a local

0:44:04.080 --> 0:44:07.440
<v Speaker 2>Presbyterian minister, which was the style at the times. Hey, kids,

0:44:07.760 --> 0:44:10.520
<v Speaker 2>we're going on a boat for like a year. We

0:44:10.640 --> 0:44:14.640
<v Speaker 2>may die or not. This minister's going to be your

0:44:14.719 --> 0:44:15.560
<v Speaker 2>dad and mom.

0:44:15.719 --> 0:44:17.360
<v Speaker 3>Now hang out with a priest.

0:44:17.640 --> 0:44:22.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this guy's gotta be in charge. Good call parenting

0:44:22.320 --> 0:44:25.480
<v Speaker 2>in the eighteen hundreds. Most accounts will say that Eliza

0:44:25.600 --> 0:44:28.840
<v Speaker 2>was pregnant when the vessel departed, although again there's some

0:44:28.920 --> 0:44:32.480
<v Speaker 2>dispute on the matter. The sterling made it to Sydney

0:44:32.600 --> 0:44:35.480
<v Speaker 2>the following May. So it sets out in October and

0:44:35.520 --> 0:44:38.440
<v Speaker 2>it makes it to Sydney by May and offload supplies

0:44:38.480 --> 0:44:41.879
<v Speaker 2>it had brought from England, which you know, this is Australia.

0:44:42.360 --> 0:44:46.279
<v Speaker 2>So the supplies are rum wine, beer, pickles, mustard. You

0:44:46.320 --> 0:44:50.160
<v Speaker 2>know the necessities, right, all the things Australians need to survive.

0:44:51.400 --> 0:44:54.919
<v Speaker 2>Starting with rum wine and beer. It picks up other

0:44:54.960 --> 0:44:58.760
<v Speaker 2>goods and charts a course to Singapore. And the route

0:44:58.800 --> 0:45:00.759
<v Speaker 2>to Singapore with these goods that it picks up in

0:45:00.800 --> 0:45:04.880
<v Speaker 2>Sydney is going to take it past Moreton Bay. Unfortunately

0:45:04.920 --> 0:45:08.880
<v Speaker 2>for everyone aboard, this takes them near the Swain Reefs,

0:45:09.040 --> 0:45:13.480
<v Speaker 2>which is a treacherous piece of sea for competent helmsman

0:45:13.560 --> 0:45:17.400
<v Speaker 2>to navigate, and some of the evidence suggests Captain Fraser

0:45:17.400 --> 0:45:19.240
<v Speaker 2>and his men may not have been the very best

0:45:19.280 --> 0:45:23.600
<v Speaker 2>seaman England ever produced, which you could also say, no,

0:45:23.760 --> 0:45:25.680
<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to make that joke. So the ship

0:45:26.239 --> 0:45:28.880
<v Speaker 2>ran aground on the reef and the crew of nineteen

0:45:29.040 --> 0:45:32.960
<v Speaker 2>got into two lifeboats. Captain Fraser, his wife, his thirteen

0:45:33.000 --> 0:45:35.879
<v Speaker 2>year old nephew, and several other sailors, including a guy

0:45:35.960 --> 0:45:39.200
<v Speaker 2>named Robert darsh who we'll talk about later, got into

0:45:39.280 --> 0:45:42.160
<v Speaker 2>one leaking longboat, and everyone else got into a Pinnas,

0:45:42.200 --> 0:45:46.280
<v Speaker 2>which is a slightly nicer boat. Both boats traveled together

0:45:46.440 --> 0:45:50.400
<v Speaker 2>for a time and they split their supplies between them,

0:45:50.400 --> 0:45:52.240
<v Speaker 2>which included brandy and beer.

0:45:52.080 --> 0:45:52.800
<v Speaker 3>But no water.

0:45:53.120 --> 0:45:55.880
<v Speaker 2>So again they've got little beer. Now you don't want water,

0:45:56.080 --> 0:45:57.520
<v Speaker 2>you know what water in this boat.

0:45:57.800 --> 0:45:59.920
<v Speaker 3>He just want some brandy and beer and some pickle

0:46:00.160 --> 0:46:02.600
<v Speaker 3>with mustard, if you right. Shit, we dropped that stuff

0:46:02.640 --> 0:46:03.360
<v Speaker 3>with the Aussies.

0:46:03.680 --> 0:46:07.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So they're just like drunk in the heat in

0:46:07.239 --> 0:46:11.120
<v Speaker 2>the tropics, which is going to slowly be killing them.

0:46:11.120 --> 0:46:14.000
<v Speaker 2>So everyone is slowly dying on these rescue boats. They

0:46:14.000 --> 0:46:17.400
<v Speaker 2>don't really know where they are. They do have guns though,

0:46:17.480 --> 0:46:21.239
<v Speaker 2>so they're they're drunk and disoriented, but heavily armed. The

0:46:21.360 --> 0:46:24.000
<v Speaker 2>nearest settlement to them is about three hundred and seventy

0:46:24.040 --> 0:46:27.840
<v Speaker 2>miles south of where the Fraser ran aground. But navigation

0:46:28.080 --> 0:46:33.279
<v Speaker 2>was difficult under these conditions. And again, no one particularly right, yeah, right, right,

0:46:33.600 --> 0:46:37.000
<v Speaker 2>No one's a master sailor here, right, We're not talking

0:46:37.040 --> 0:46:41.040
<v Speaker 2>about people who are great at what they're doing now.

0:46:41.080 --> 0:46:44.200
<v Speaker 2>In their defense, this is also difficult because Captain Fraser's

0:46:44.200 --> 0:46:47.279
<v Speaker 2>longboat is constantly taking on water, so they're baling it

0:46:47.320 --> 0:46:50.840
<v Speaker 2>out twenty four to seven while they're on it. Also

0:46:50.920 --> 0:46:53.399
<v Speaker 2>adding to the difficulty is that his wife goes into

0:46:53.520 --> 0:46:57.560
<v Speaker 2>labor on day three because it's pretty stressful having your

0:46:57.560 --> 0:47:01.600
<v Speaker 2>boat sink and then being on a longboat. So per

0:47:01.680 --> 0:47:04.400
<v Speaker 2>the most common accounting of the story, she delivers the

0:47:04.440 --> 0:47:08.759
<v Speaker 2>baby underwater because again the boat is constantly sinking and

0:47:08.800 --> 0:47:12.840
<v Speaker 2>the baby dies almost immediately, which geez, it's probably I

0:47:12.840 --> 0:47:15.520
<v Speaker 2>don't have trouble believing that if she was pregnant, because

0:47:15.560 --> 0:47:17.759
<v Speaker 2>babies don't do well in these conditions.

0:47:18.840 --> 0:47:22.120
<v Speaker 3>Being born underwater during a shipwreck, yes, bad way to

0:47:22.160 --> 0:47:28.719
<v Speaker 3>have a baby. To people who have only consumed alcohol.

0:47:27.840 --> 0:47:31.200
<v Speaker 2>Only source of galleries are beer and brandy. Yes, yeah,

0:47:31.239 --> 0:47:33.520
<v Speaker 2>I don't know what happened. How did the baby not

0:47:33.600 --> 0:47:36.319
<v Speaker 2>make it? If she did give birth and have the

0:47:36.320 --> 0:47:39.279
<v Speaker 2>baby die, it's kind of amazing she lived right like

0:47:39.360 --> 0:47:42.320
<v Speaker 2>this is it does point to her being physically pretty resilient.

0:47:42.960 --> 0:47:43.640
<v Speaker 3>Unbelievable.

0:47:43.960 --> 0:47:48.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, now this is not part of the story. Part

0:47:48.160 --> 0:47:50.320
<v Speaker 2>of why people doubt whether or not Cheerly was pregnant

0:47:50.320 --> 0:47:52.320
<v Speaker 2>is that when she first gets rescued, she does not

0:47:52.480 --> 0:47:55.319
<v Speaker 2>talk about having a baby. She doesn't talk about this

0:47:55.360 --> 0:47:58.080
<v Speaker 2>in the first or second version of events that she dictated.

0:47:58.440 --> 0:48:00.839
<v Speaker 2>Later writers would only say that she she avoided this

0:48:01.239 --> 0:48:05.000
<v Speaker 2>until her story had gone eighteen hundred's viral quote, probably

0:48:05.000 --> 0:48:08.239
<v Speaker 2>through modesty. In other words, she didn't what it was

0:48:08.320 --> 0:48:11.160
<v Speaker 2>kind of shameful to talk about, so she didn't initially,

0:48:11.600 --> 0:48:13.680
<v Speaker 2>But she also does when she starts raising a bunch

0:48:13.719 --> 0:48:15.640
<v Speaker 2>of money, So there's some bid. Did she just make

0:48:15.719 --> 0:48:19.000
<v Speaker 2>this up to kind of get sympathy, because she definitely

0:48:19.000 --> 0:48:23.239
<v Speaker 2>does some of that, right, we really don't know. Two

0:48:23.280 --> 0:48:27.120
<v Speaker 2>days later processing this in several other traumas, Captain Fraser

0:48:27.239 --> 0:48:29.799
<v Speaker 2>was finally forced to put his failing boat ashore to

0:48:29.840 --> 0:48:33.480
<v Speaker 2>find water. Eliza would later claim that she figured out

0:48:33.520 --> 0:48:35.960
<v Speaker 2>how to get fresh water by lowering her skirt into

0:48:36.000 --> 0:48:38.160
<v Speaker 2>a crack and ringing enough water out of it to

0:48:38.200 --> 0:48:41.560
<v Speaker 2>fill their containers. She does lie about almost every part

0:48:41.560 --> 0:48:43.640
<v Speaker 2>of this story, and I don't assume this is true,

0:48:43.680 --> 0:48:47.800
<v Speaker 2>just because, like, well, this pretty obvious way to get water.

0:48:47.880 --> 0:48:50.400
<v Speaker 2>And I'm going to guess other people on these boats

0:48:50.440 --> 0:48:53.840
<v Speaker 2>had more experience foraging for water than her, So I

0:48:53.840 --> 0:48:56.080
<v Speaker 2>don't know if she had to teach all of them this.

0:48:56.239 --> 0:48:58.480
<v Speaker 2>But they didn't have dresses on though, right, and they

0:48:58.480 --> 0:49:02.120
<v Speaker 2>didn't have dresses at any rate. They fill up their water,

0:49:02.239 --> 0:49:05.040
<v Speaker 2>they finally have water, and they continue their journey until

0:49:05.040 --> 0:49:08.480
<v Speaker 2>they run out of water again. Eliza claims that she

0:49:08.760 --> 0:49:11.000
<v Speaker 2>was able to survive on seawater, but all of the

0:49:11.080 --> 0:49:13.720
<v Speaker 2>men got sick when they tried. And this is definitely

0:49:13.760 --> 0:49:16.440
<v Speaker 2>a lie because you simply can't survive on seawater.

0:49:16.560 --> 0:49:19.200
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, right, that's a superpower. That's like her being like

0:49:19.239 --> 0:49:22.680
<v Speaker 3>and then I just that just flew to the island.

0:49:22.960 --> 0:49:27.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I levitated above the leaky boat. Yeah, you cannot

0:49:27.520 --> 0:49:30.360
<v Speaker 2>survive on seawater. It's generally three or four percent sodium.

0:49:30.360 --> 0:49:33.320
<v Speaker 2>Obviously drinking some like if you've ever gone swimming is fine,

0:49:34.120 --> 0:49:36.680
<v Speaker 2>but your kidneys need fresh water to process out all

0:49:36.680 --> 0:49:38.760
<v Speaker 2>of the sodium, and if you do not have fresh water,

0:49:38.880 --> 0:49:42.080
<v Speaker 2>you will get sick. Don't try to live off of seawater.

0:49:43.320 --> 0:49:46.200
<v Speaker 2>They're sort of traveling around the islands off that coast,

0:49:46.280 --> 0:49:48.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, periodically stopping when they need more water, trying

0:49:48.960 --> 0:49:51.719
<v Speaker 2>to find food, and eventually they wind up off the

0:49:51.760 --> 0:49:55.280
<v Speaker 2>coast of what was then called Indian Head, right based

0:49:55.320 --> 0:49:57.759
<v Speaker 2>on what Captain Cook had called it. The indigenous people

0:49:57.760 --> 0:50:02.040
<v Speaker 2>are still calling it Ghari. But Captain Fraser doesn't want

0:50:02.040 --> 0:50:04.759
<v Speaker 2>to get on the big island because number one, he

0:50:04.840 --> 0:50:07.920
<v Speaker 2>thinks it's a chunk of the Australian mainland. But number two,

0:50:07.960 --> 0:50:10.080
<v Speaker 2>he's been told everyone here is a cannibal, so he's

0:50:10.080 --> 0:50:13.200
<v Speaker 2>like scared of they can see people, and he doesn't

0:50:13.239 --> 0:50:15.359
<v Speaker 2>want to get close to people because he thinks they'll

0:50:15.400 --> 0:50:18.880
<v Speaker 2>eat him. One day, though, the pinnace, which is the

0:50:18.920 --> 0:50:21.080
<v Speaker 2>second boat with them, goes out to find water, while

0:50:21.120 --> 0:50:23.520
<v Speaker 2>the longboat kind of waits by the shore and it

0:50:23.560 --> 0:50:26.719
<v Speaker 2>never comes back. The people on it do eventually find

0:50:26.719 --> 0:50:28.600
<v Speaker 2>their way back to civilization. I don't know if they

0:50:28.680 --> 0:50:31.359
<v Speaker 2>just abandoned Eliza and her husband. Maybe because they found

0:50:31.400 --> 0:50:31.960
<v Speaker 2>them annoying.

0:50:32.000 --> 0:50:33.200
<v Speaker 3>They're so annoying.

0:50:33.560 --> 0:50:36.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, there is some evidence.

0:50:35.880 --> 0:50:39.439
<v Speaker 3>History changed based on like how annoying someone is. Yeah,

0:50:39.480 --> 0:50:42.680
<v Speaker 3>the survivors were like, yeah, she sucked for a different

0:50:42.719 --> 0:50:46.880
<v Speaker 3>podcast looking into the day Lincoln was assassinated, and like

0:50:47.640 --> 0:50:50.759
<v Speaker 3>the only reason that ulysses As Grant wasn't there was

0:50:50.800 --> 0:50:56.919
<v Speaker 3>because ulysses As Grant's wife found Mary Todd Lincoln annoying. Yeah,

0:50:58.120 --> 0:50:59.880
<v Speaker 3>completely changed the course of history.

0:51:00.120 --> 0:51:03.359
<v Speaker 2>You know, folks, you have to follow your instincts. If

0:51:03.360 --> 0:51:06.600
<v Speaker 2>you think someone's annoying, you're definitely gonna die if you

0:51:06.680 --> 0:51:08.000
<v Speaker 2>go out to a party with them.

0:51:08.160 --> 0:51:11.239
<v Speaker 1>Never underestimate having that one annoying friend that you keep

0:51:11.280 --> 0:51:14.000
<v Speaker 1>around just to avoid assassinations.

0:51:14.040 --> 0:51:14.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:51:14.520 --> 0:51:16.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's the whole reason the guy you created Family

0:51:16.719 --> 0:51:20.040
<v Speaker 2>Guys survived nine to eleven. If I'm remembering correctly, had

0:51:20.160 --> 0:51:22.200
<v Speaker 2>bad vibes about a flight turned out to be a

0:51:22.200 --> 0:51:25.359
<v Speaker 2>bad flight to be Yeah, I don't remember if that's

0:51:25.400 --> 0:51:27.440
<v Speaker 2>exactly what happened, but he definitely was supposed to be

0:51:27.480 --> 0:51:28.320
<v Speaker 2>on one of those flights.

0:51:28.560 --> 0:51:31.000
<v Speaker 3>They're like, he keeps doing the quagmire voice.

0:51:31.320 --> 0:51:33.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you're one.

0:51:34.040 --> 0:51:35.879
<v Speaker 3>Stop saying giggity giggity man.

0:51:36.800 --> 0:51:40.920
<v Speaker 2>No, they would let anybody on flights back then, as

0:51:41.480 --> 0:51:43.440
<v Speaker 2>as evidenced by nine to eleven happenings.

0:51:43.560 --> 0:51:45.000
<v Speaker 3>Right, what a time.

0:51:45.200 --> 0:51:45.600
<v Speaker 1>Wow.

0:51:50.520 --> 0:51:54.000
<v Speaker 2>So anyway, they get abandoned off the coast of Gari,

0:51:54.200 --> 0:51:57.040
<v Speaker 2>and you know, they spend about a week kind of

0:51:57.080 --> 0:52:02.280
<v Speaker 2>sailing around the coast because again they're scared of the cannibals,

0:52:02.320 --> 0:52:04.440
<v Speaker 2>and they managed to like live off of limpets that

0:52:04.440 --> 0:52:06.879
<v Speaker 2>they tear off of rocks before eventually getting desperate enough

0:52:06.920 --> 0:52:09.520
<v Speaker 2>that like, fuck it, let's try our luck. We're going

0:52:09.600 --> 0:52:14.200
<v Speaker 2>to die either way. It's kind of I said earlier.

0:52:14.200 --> 0:52:16.280
<v Speaker 2>They think they found the mainland. We don't one hundred

0:52:16.280 --> 0:52:18.759
<v Speaker 2>percent know if they know this is an island or not,

0:52:18.960 --> 0:52:21.640
<v Speaker 2>but most accounts will say they thought this was somewhere

0:52:21.640 --> 0:52:25.359
<v Speaker 2>on the mainland that was just isolated from European civilization.

0:52:26.040 --> 0:52:30.120
<v Speaker 2>They are met very quickly by five locals with spears. Now,

0:52:30.320 --> 0:52:33.440
<v Speaker 2>contrary to all these myths that Captain Fraser had believed

0:52:33.440 --> 0:52:36.840
<v Speaker 2>that these people were cannibals, these folks, these Butchola people

0:52:36.880 --> 0:52:39.920
<v Speaker 2>see strange white people come aground and they show up

0:52:39.920 --> 0:52:42.680
<v Speaker 2>with food. Right, They're like, you guys look like shit.

0:52:42.840 --> 0:52:46.360
<v Speaker 2>You are obviously dying. We've watched you sailing, We've watched

0:52:46.360 --> 0:52:49.320
<v Speaker 2>you like boating around the coast, trying to eat liftoff

0:52:49.320 --> 0:52:52.239
<v Speaker 2>of limpets. You're clearly dying. I don't know why you

0:52:52.280 --> 0:52:55.920
<v Speaker 2>didn't come for help earlier. Here's some food, right, This

0:52:55.960 --> 0:53:00.360
<v Speaker 2>is very obviously a humanitarian gesture. But even in modern

0:53:00.520 --> 0:53:02.879
<v Speaker 2>casual accounts like this write up I found in Great

0:53:02.920 --> 0:53:04.839
<v Speaker 2>British Life, which is the one that wants to take

0:53:04.880 --> 0:53:08.680
<v Speaker 2>credit for her coming from Derbyshire, this humanitarian gesture is

0:53:08.719 --> 0:53:12.560
<v Speaker 2>often described as like gross and savage. Quote the Machola

0:53:12.600 --> 0:53:15.800
<v Speaker 2>people approached them with decomposing kangaroo meat. When a sailor

0:53:16.000 --> 0:53:18.560
<v Speaker 2>ate some they took some of his clothing and like

0:53:19.040 --> 0:53:23.400
<v Speaker 2>what man number one? They don't have refrigerators right, like

0:53:23.760 --> 0:53:26.239
<v Speaker 2>this is this happens in like the winter, so it's

0:53:26.320 --> 0:53:28.400
<v Speaker 2>not a great seat. They don't have a lot of food,

0:53:28.840 --> 0:53:32.680
<v Speaker 2>like this kind of going off like kangaroo meat is

0:53:32.719 --> 0:53:35.200
<v Speaker 2>the best they can do, and it's better than you

0:53:35.280 --> 0:53:37.040
<v Speaker 2>were able to do for yourselves, like this is a

0:53:37.200 --> 0:53:38.239
<v Speaker 2>this is a nice thing.

0:53:38.440 --> 0:53:41.560
<v Speaker 3>They approached them with fruit that had brown spots on y.

0:53:42.480 --> 0:53:45.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, fuck, and like they give him food and they're like, hey,

0:53:45.200 --> 0:53:48.040
<v Speaker 2>can I try on your clothes? Like, I haven't seen

0:53:48.080 --> 0:53:50.759
<v Speaker 2>anything like that. It's weird. It's a pretty normal thing

0:53:50.760 --> 0:53:53.239
<v Speaker 2>to do. You're meeting some very culture. Can I try

0:53:53.280 --> 0:53:54.600
<v Speaker 2>that hat? I've never worn a hat?

0:53:54.640 --> 0:53:59.200
<v Speaker 3>What is that? Yeah, to this day, athletes exchange jerseys, right,

0:53:59.640 --> 0:54:01.920
<v Speaker 3>you know, it's a thing that's done, and it's not

0:54:02.000 --> 0:54:04.440
<v Speaker 3>a sign of war. It's a sign of like, hey,

0:54:04.800 --> 0:54:05.480
<v Speaker 3>this is silly.

0:54:05.520 --> 0:54:08.359
<v Speaker 2>When I met you, you gave me some rancid kangaroo meat,

0:54:08.360 --> 0:54:10.239
<v Speaker 2>although for a different reason that we don't need to

0:54:10.280 --> 0:54:10.680
<v Speaker 2>get into.

0:54:10.800 --> 0:54:12.200
<v Speaker 3>And then we exchanged shirts.

0:54:12.719 --> 0:54:16.560
<v Speaker 2>We did exchange shirts. Yes, that was more to Yeah,

0:54:16.600 --> 0:54:21.839
<v Speaker 2>it was a weird hallucinogen. Yeah, the rant of kangaroo meat. Yeah,

0:54:21.880 --> 0:54:23.640
<v Speaker 2>if you get making in the high meat, you trip

0:54:23.680 --> 0:54:26.640
<v Speaker 2>off of it. Yeah, that's right. Look it up, folks.

0:54:26.719 --> 0:54:29.480
<v Speaker 2>So not long after this, eight of the remaining men

0:54:29.600 --> 0:54:33.400
<v Speaker 2>who had gotten like landed with Captain Fraser and Eliza

0:54:33.800 --> 0:54:36.480
<v Speaker 2>either try to leave or like walk off to try

0:54:36.480 --> 0:54:38.799
<v Speaker 2>to find a town to get rescued for everyone else,

0:54:38.960 --> 0:54:42.440
<v Speaker 2>or they just dessert. We don't really know. Crewman Harry

0:54:42.480 --> 0:54:44.880
<v Speaker 2>Yolden is the source of the claim that like we deserted,

0:54:45.000 --> 0:54:48.520
<v Speaker 2>and he blames Eliza for making them desert right quote,

0:54:48.600 --> 0:54:51.200
<v Speaker 2>she was a terrible liar and the most profane, artful,

0:54:51.200 --> 0:54:54.560
<v Speaker 2>wicked woman that ever lived, and this does comport with

0:54:54.600 --> 0:54:57.400
<v Speaker 2>some of her later behavior. Although other crewmen alleged that

0:54:57.480 --> 0:54:59.680
<v Speaker 2>Yolden was the problem and he stole a bunch of

0:54:59.719 --> 0:55:02.000
<v Speaker 2>water that like, way more water than he was supposed

0:55:02.040 --> 0:55:04.880
<v Speaker 2>to be drinking, both of these could be true. Maybe

0:55:04.880 --> 0:55:09.440
<v Speaker 2>they both sucked right. He Also, Yolden also called Eliza

0:55:09.520 --> 0:55:12.359
<v Speaker 2>a she captain, which is him insulting both her and

0:55:12.400 --> 0:55:13.000
<v Speaker 2>her husband.

0:55:13.400 --> 0:55:17.120
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, he sounds like the worst it's possible for everyone

0:55:17.160 --> 0:55:20.120
<v Speaker 3>to such stirring shit in the middle of the life

0:55:20.120 --> 0:55:23.400
<v Speaker 3>and death thing, just like shit stirring on a new level,

0:55:23.600 --> 0:55:25.520
<v Speaker 3>being like, oh well, I guess we should listen to

0:55:25.600 --> 0:55:28.640
<v Speaker 3>our captain our wife. Yeah.

0:55:28.680 --> 0:55:30.640
<v Speaker 1>At the same time, I do think that you should

0:55:30.680 --> 0:55:34.200
<v Speaker 1>now address me as she captain, as she captain, because

0:55:34.200 --> 0:55:36.440
<v Speaker 1>it's kind of grown on me in the last thirty seconds.

0:55:36.640 --> 0:55:39.200
<v Speaker 2>I don't feel like you need to gender captain. Like

0:55:39.239 --> 0:55:41.919
<v Speaker 2>it's not an inherently masculine or feminine work.

0:55:42.320 --> 0:55:44.600
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, there's kind of a flow to it. She.

0:55:45.160 --> 0:55:47.439
<v Speaker 2>It's like calling somebod a she person. You don't really

0:55:47.440 --> 0:55:51.320
<v Speaker 2>need to do that. That just kind of sounds fucked up. Yeah,

0:55:51.360 --> 0:55:54.560
<v Speaker 2>So Eliza alleged that Yolden at one point threatened to

0:55:54.560 --> 0:55:57.280
<v Speaker 2>throw the captain overboard while they were still on the boat.

0:55:57.440 --> 0:56:00.760
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, uh, And also, depending on how competent

0:56:00.840 --> 0:56:03.680
<v Speaker 2>Captain Fraser was, this may have been an understandable move.

0:56:03.800 --> 0:56:05.920
<v Speaker 2>I can see a version of the story. We're throwing

0:56:06.000 --> 0:56:08.320
<v Speaker 2>him overboard might have been the best thing for everyone

0:56:09.280 --> 0:56:11.960
<v Speaker 2>at any rate. After they are rescued by the bachola,

0:56:12.000 --> 0:56:15.520
<v Speaker 2>the group splits up and Darj Yolden and four other

0:56:15.560 --> 0:56:18.480
<v Speaker 2>men head for where they think is Moreton Bay. But

0:56:18.560 --> 0:56:20.439
<v Speaker 2>Moreton Bay is on the mainland, so again they don't

0:56:20.440 --> 0:56:24.040
<v Speaker 2>really know where they are. Eliza her husband good navigators.

0:56:24.960 --> 0:56:27.360
<v Speaker 3>We're gonna head over to Sydney.

0:56:27.440 --> 0:56:30.680
<v Speaker 2>It's like east, and I think East is left, so yeah,

0:56:30.760 --> 0:56:31.560
<v Speaker 2>we'll just try that.

0:56:32.160 --> 0:56:35.880
<v Speaker 3>They've been at sea, like offshore, sailing around the island

0:56:36.040 --> 0:56:39.520
<v Speaker 3>for the past like few weeks, and now I think.

0:56:39.400 --> 0:56:40.480
<v Speaker 2>I say they're bad at this.

0:56:40.840 --> 0:56:42.680
<v Speaker 3>I'm sure it's hard, Yeah, for sure.

0:56:43.160 --> 0:56:46.840
<v Speaker 2>I haven't tried to navigate this way without access to

0:56:46.880 --> 0:56:51.560
<v Speaker 2>a backup land. Eliza, her husband, and four other men

0:56:51.680 --> 0:56:54.560
<v Speaker 2>go south with the bachola. Right now, most of them

0:56:54.640 --> 0:57:00.279
<v Speaker 2>have guns, but they become separated at some point, or

0:57:00.320 --> 0:57:02.040
<v Speaker 2>several of them become separated at some point. It's a

0:57:02.040 --> 0:57:05.640
<v Speaker 2>little bit unclear exactly what happens. All of these stories

0:57:05.680 --> 0:57:09.319
<v Speaker 2>are kind of different, but Eliza and her husband wind

0:57:09.400 --> 0:57:12.160
<v Speaker 2>up living with the batola for several months, and the

0:57:12.200 --> 0:57:14.640
<v Speaker 2>first thing that she reports the Patrolla show them how

0:57:14.640 --> 0:57:16.760
<v Speaker 2>to do is dig a hole in the sand so

0:57:16.800 --> 0:57:19.120
<v Speaker 2>that it fills with water and then add leaves from

0:57:19.120 --> 0:57:21.720
<v Speaker 2>a local shrub to improve the taste. Right, So again,

0:57:22.240 --> 0:57:24.840
<v Speaker 2>they're like trying to teach them how to survive. They

0:57:24.840 --> 0:57:28.880
<v Speaker 2>are attempting to do a humanitarian things, right those monthster like, oh,

0:57:28.960 --> 0:57:31.880
<v Speaker 2>you guys are always you're dipping your filthy clothing into

0:57:31.920 --> 0:57:34.240
<v Speaker 2>water to like, no, this is how you get nice

0:57:34.280 --> 0:57:34.880
<v Speaker 2>clean water.

0:57:35.320 --> 0:57:39.400
<v Speaker 3>Patiently teaching them how to not die. She's like, oh

0:57:39.440 --> 0:57:41.400
<v Speaker 3>my god, they're trying to kill me.

0:57:41.880 --> 0:57:44.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Now, Eliza admits that they did this, but she

0:57:44.360 --> 0:57:47.440
<v Speaker 2>also claims they demanded clothing from the men and beat

0:57:47.480 --> 0:57:50.880
<v Speaker 2>one of them when he refused. And here's how John Wright,

0:57:50.960 --> 0:57:54.720
<v Speaker 2>the author of that Derbyshire Life article, describes what happened next.

0:57:55.200 --> 0:57:59.480
<v Speaker 2>They're dwindling numbers made the Aborigines. Again, that's not Aboriginal

0:57:59.520 --> 0:58:01.920
<v Speaker 2>people preferred terb but this is how he writes it

0:58:02.200 --> 0:58:05.080
<v Speaker 2>bolder in the exchange of clothing continued until they were naked.

0:58:05.120 --> 0:58:07.560
<v Speaker 2>The men were led away, leaving Eliza naked apart from

0:58:07.600 --> 0:58:10.200
<v Speaker 2>some trailing sea grape plant she tied around her waist.

0:58:10.560 --> 0:58:13.040
<v Speaker 2>Aboriginal women took her to their camp, prodded her and

0:58:13.080 --> 0:58:15.200
<v Speaker 2>pulled her hair. They gave her a baby to breastfeed

0:58:15.240 --> 0:58:17.200
<v Speaker 2>as its mother was sick, and painted her body with

0:58:17.320 --> 0:58:20.840
<v Speaker 2>charcoal and lizard grease to make her skin darker. Now

0:58:21.400 --> 0:58:24.160
<v Speaker 2>this is largely wrong. It's based on a mix of

0:58:24.240 --> 0:58:27.880
<v Speaker 2>three different accounts left by Frasier and several subsequent books,

0:58:27.880 --> 0:58:31.000
<v Speaker 2>one of which is fiction based on her story. Some

0:58:31.040 --> 0:58:33.800
<v Speaker 2>of these details are true, but are missing important details.

0:58:33.880 --> 0:58:36.880
<v Speaker 2>For example, the story about them painting her with charcoal

0:58:36.960 --> 0:58:40.240
<v Speaker 2>and grease is likely true, but they didn't do it

0:58:40.280 --> 0:58:44.000
<v Speaker 2>to make her skin darker. There's substantial documentation that the

0:58:44.000 --> 0:58:48.040
<v Speaker 2>Bochola used charcoal to treat wounds, rubbing it into like

0:58:48.080 --> 0:58:52.000
<v Speaker 2>an injury as a sav or ungwin perhaps mixed with herbs, right,

0:58:52.480 --> 0:58:54.800
<v Speaker 2>and this can actually be effective. You don't have better

0:58:54.880 --> 0:58:57.760
<v Speaker 2>methods right available, Like this is a thing that the

0:58:57.760 --> 0:59:01.480
<v Speaker 2>Beachola and other people do. So this account and other

0:59:01.520 --> 0:59:03.000
<v Speaker 2>accounts are like, oh, they did it because they wanted

0:59:03.040 --> 0:59:04.800
<v Speaker 2>to make her skin darker like theirs. It's like, no,

0:59:04.960 --> 0:59:08.800
<v Speaker 2>she was probably covered in cuts because she'd been shipwrecked

0:59:09.080 --> 0:59:11.240
<v Speaker 2>and at sea for months and they were trying to

0:59:11.280 --> 0:59:12.280
<v Speaker 2>treat her injuries.

0:59:12.440 --> 0:59:15.959
<v Speaker 3>Blackface was actually their idea. It's not something that we

0:59:16.040 --> 0:59:19.280
<v Speaker 3>do on our Yeah, they actually came up with the now, yeah,

0:59:19.320 --> 0:59:21.000
<v Speaker 3>because they thought it was cool. Yeah.

0:59:21.120 --> 0:59:23.200
<v Speaker 2>It looks to me like they were again trying to

0:59:23.240 --> 0:59:25.160
<v Speaker 2>teach her how to have clean water and deal with

0:59:25.200 --> 0:59:28.880
<v Speaker 2>her injuries so she doesn't die. And also, the story

0:59:28.880 --> 0:59:31.520
<v Speaker 2>about being forced to nurse is not in either of

0:59:31.520 --> 0:59:34.760
<v Speaker 2>Eliza's original accounts, and she in fact does not bring

0:59:34.800 --> 0:59:37.480
<v Speaker 2>this up at all until she gets back to London,

0:59:37.520 --> 0:59:39.960
<v Speaker 2>which is like the third version of the story she gives,

0:59:40.240 --> 0:59:42.200
<v Speaker 2>which is also when she adds the part of the

0:59:42.200 --> 0:59:44.920
<v Speaker 2>story that she gave birth on a lifeboat. So again,

0:59:45.600 --> 0:59:48.280
<v Speaker 2>maybe she was just embarrassed to talk about it earlier,

0:59:48.760 --> 0:59:51.200
<v Speaker 2>or maybe she knew that this. She was raising money

0:59:51.240 --> 0:59:53.120
<v Speaker 2>off of the story at this point, so maybe she

0:59:53.280 --> 0:59:56.160
<v Speaker 2>just knew that like, oh, adding in that they made

0:59:56.200 --> 0:59:58.440
<v Speaker 2>me breastfeed one of their babies. That's going to really

0:59:58.800 --> 1:00:01.560
<v Speaker 2>like be freaky to all of these like white British

1:00:01.600 --> 1:00:04.280
<v Speaker 2>people that like, I was made to do this. I'll

1:00:04.320 --> 1:00:07.560
<v Speaker 2>just throw that into the story too. She would also

1:00:07.640 --> 1:00:09.920
<v Speaker 2>later claim to have been given the job of maggot

1:00:09.920 --> 1:00:13.600
<v Speaker 2>picking right, otherwise picking like maggots out of injuries, and

1:00:13.640 --> 1:00:15.880
<v Speaker 2>maybe she was that's the thing you need, you're going

1:00:15.960 --> 1:00:18.720
<v Speaker 2>to have people do, and they have her work, not

1:00:19.000 --> 1:00:22.200
<v Speaker 2>like in a mean way, but because you don't survive

1:00:22.640 --> 1:00:24.800
<v Speaker 2>as a group of people living this way unless everyone

1:00:24.920 --> 1:00:30.400
<v Speaker 2>does stuff right. In general, she alleges beasteal treatment from

1:00:30.440 --> 1:00:32.640
<v Speaker 2>the Butchola, who, by her accounts, forced her and the

1:00:32.680 --> 1:00:35.080
<v Speaker 2>other survivors into hard labor and beat them when they

1:00:35.120 --> 1:00:38.000
<v Speaker 2>failed to work at a sufficient pace. Now it's important

1:00:38.040 --> 1:00:39.640
<v Speaker 2>that we take a second here to look at how

1:00:39.680 --> 1:00:42.640
<v Speaker 2>the Bachola would have seen these white people at this

1:00:42.760 --> 1:00:46.200
<v Speaker 2>point in time. They have had very little contact with Europeans,

1:00:46.400 --> 1:00:48.920
<v Speaker 2>and their traditional concept of the world was a lot

1:00:49.040 --> 1:00:52.320
<v Speaker 2>smaller than it would become. Since part of their funerary

1:00:52.440 --> 1:00:55.320
<v Speaker 2>ritual involved skinning the dead, which left them looking white.

1:00:55.600 --> 1:00:58.560
<v Speaker 2>They interpreted the first white people they saw as something

1:00:58.640 --> 1:01:02.400
<v Speaker 2>like ghosts returned to corporeal form. Right, these are the

1:01:02.480 --> 1:01:04.880
<v Speaker 2>ghosts of our dead who have come back to us.

1:01:05.040 --> 1:01:05.240
<v Speaker 3>Right.

1:01:05.600 --> 1:01:09.600
<v Speaker 2>That's at least, you know, an anthropological account that I found,

1:01:09.960 --> 1:01:11.680
<v Speaker 2>and it was common. Some of the evidence for this

1:01:11.760 --> 1:01:13.680
<v Speaker 2>is that it was really common in this period for

1:01:13.760 --> 1:01:16.560
<v Speaker 2>stranded whites who like wound up on the island to

1:01:16.640 --> 1:01:20.560
<v Speaker 2>get adopted into different bands on Gari after one member

1:01:20.600 --> 1:01:21.880
<v Speaker 2>of a tribe or another would be like, oh, I

1:01:21.880 --> 1:01:24.120
<v Speaker 2>think this is the returned spirit of like my husband

1:01:24.240 --> 1:01:26.760
<v Speaker 2>or my kid, right, And so that was kind of

1:01:26.800 --> 1:01:28.880
<v Speaker 2>like the way that they rationalized what they were doing

1:01:28.920 --> 1:01:30.600
<v Speaker 2>and sort of you know, what was going on under

1:01:30.640 --> 1:01:33.360
<v Speaker 2>the hood here. Another thing that's happening in this period

1:01:33.480 --> 1:01:36.520
<v Speaker 2>is that, you know, you've got cities like Sydney, which

1:01:36.520 --> 1:01:40.640
<v Speaker 2>are European cities and thus have European prisons, and sometimes

1:01:40.640 --> 1:01:44.840
<v Speaker 2>convicts will escape these prisons on mainland settlements and they'll flee,

1:01:44.920 --> 1:01:47.160
<v Speaker 2>and some of them will wind up on these islands

1:01:47.160 --> 1:01:49.280
<v Speaker 2>and they will be taken in by the Bachula and

1:01:49.320 --> 1:01:52.600
<v Speaker 2>other tribes. And again the same kind of justification is

1:01:52.680 --> 1:01:55.560
<v Speaker 2>used when someone arrives a nineteen seventy seven paper in

1:01:55.560 --> 1:01:59.600
<v Speaker 2>the Journal of Occupational Papers in Anthropology noted quote. The

1:02:00.160 --> 1:02:02.800
<v Speaker 2>most likely to have reached the island first was James Davis,

1:02:02.840 --> 1:02:06.160
<v Speaker 2>who ran in March eighteen twenty nine and subsequently joined

1:02:06.160 --> 1:02:09.000
<v Speaker 2>the Bachula on the Mary River. Although initially known to

1:02:09.080 --> 1:02:13.200
<v Speaker 2>coastal Aborigines as Dunnbot, meaning small one, among the Bachula,

1:02:13.280 --> 1:02:16.600
<v Speaker 2>he became Thorimbi, the reincarnated son of a tribal elder

1:02:16.720 --> 1:02:19.760
<v Speaker 2>killed in battle some years before. Again to tales of

1:02:19.840 --> 1:02:22.920
<v Speaker 2>Davis's exploits are sparse, for he was a particularly taciturn

1:02:22.960 --> 1:02:26.160
<v Speaker 2>individual who remained tight jawed about much of his fourteen years.

1:02:26.200 --> 1:02:29.920
<v Speaker 2>Experiences as a wild white man. David Bracewells for Bossi

1:02:30.000 --> 1:02:32.440
<v Speaker 2>earned him the name want or Talker, but it was

1:02:32.440 --> 1:02:35.440
<v Speaker 2>not until his fourth abstention from Warreton Bay after July

1:02:35.520 --> 1:02:38.240
<v Speaker 2>eighteen thirty nine that he actually mentions having passed over

1:02:38.320 --> 1:02:41.200
<v Speaker 2>to Fraser's Island, called Gari by the natives, right he

1:02:41.240 --> 1:02:44.840
<v Speaker 2>spells at Karina. I don't understand why, but it's pronounced Kai,

1:02:45.520 --> 1:02:48.040
<v Speaker 2>where he remained for nearly a year. His impression was

1:02:48.040 --> 1:02:50.720
<v Speaker 2>that its inhabitants were very numerous, he thinks thousands, and

1:02:50.760 --> 1:02:52.720
<v Speaker 2>at their great fights he has seen them, covering the

1:02:52.760 --> 1:02:57.120
<v Speaker 2>beach for four miles in extent. Finally, John Failey, called Gizburi,

1:02:57.240 --> 1:02:59.520
<v Speaker 2>after a long trek from Armadol to the Mary River

1:02:59.640 --> 1:03:02.720
<v Speaker 2>via the Bunyel festivals in the Black All Ranges, moved

1:03:02.760 --> 1:03:05.600
<v Speaker 2>with the Aboriginal people of White Bay for almost twelve years,

1:03:05.600 --> 1:03:08.480
<v Speaker 2>helping them to plan raids against early White settlers, before

1:03:08.520 --> 1:03:11.360
<v Speaker 2>being retaken by Lieutenant Bly and his Native mounted police

1:03:11.360 --> 1:03:14.800
<v Speaker 2>in December eighteen fifty four. Fayhee, it seems, became the

1:03:14.800 --> 1:03:18.480
<v Speaker 2>most totally incorporated of all the fugitives into Aboriginal lifestyles,

1:03:18.680 --> 1:03:21.280
<v Speaker 2>passing through the Bora ceremony and bearing upon his body

1:03:21.320 --> 1:03:23.760
<v Speaker 2>the Musgara scars and the Eppelate Bora marks on the

1:03:23.760 --> 1:03:27.200
<v Speaker 2>white shoulder. After enduring the brutal privations of convict life,

1:03:27.240 --> 1:03:30.560
<v Speaker 2>each of these escapees testified to the comparatively kindly treatment

1:03:30.640 --> 1:03:33.760
<v Speaker 2>they received from the Aboriginal people. In John Fahy's case,

1:03:33.800 --> 1:03:36.560
<v Speaker 2>his Black kinsmen fought bitterly with the Native troopers to

1:03:36.560 --> 1:03:40.120
<v Speaker 2>prevent his recapture. Upon his return to Sydney, However, officialdom

1:03:40.200 --> 1:03:43.280
<v Speaker 2>casually awarded Fayhee a year's imprisonment on the roads and

1:03:43.400 --> 1:03:47.520
<v Speaker 2>chains and forgot him. This is like fascinating story of

1:03:47.600 --> 1:03:49.880
<v Speaker 2>like these people who have been tossed out by their

1:03:49.920 --> 1:03:53.080
<v Speaker 2>own culture and like you have no value, but like

1:03:53.160 --> 1:03:56.280
<v Speaker 2>being chained to a gang, working on the roads or

1:03:56.360 --> 1:03:59.760
<v Speaker 2>locked in a cage, and they're adopted as members of

1:03:59.800 --> 1:04:02.400
<v Speaker 2>the family by some of these groups. I find that

1:04:02.440 --> 1:04:05.280
<v Speaker 2>particularly the case of Fah where he's like helping them

1:04:05.520 --> 1:04:09.240
<v Speaker 2>raid at like white settlers, and they're like fighting, you know,

1:04:09.320 --> 1:04:11.360
<v Speaker 2>tooth and nail to the death to stop him from

1:04:11.400 --> 1:04:14.800
<v Speaker 2>being recaptured. They like, you know, ritually scar his body.

1:04:14.800 --> 1:04:16.760
<v Speaker 2>They take it's it's I wish we knew more about

1:04:16.760 --> 1:04:18.400
<v Speaker 2>that guy. It's an amazing story.

1:04:18.840 --> 1:04:22.200
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, all of these interpretations where it's like and they

1:04:22.240 --> 1:04:25.680
<v Speaker 3>thought we were ghosts and were like it's like but

1:04:25.800 --> 1:04:28.760
<v Speaker 3>then all of the stories when people when they're living

1:04:28.880 --> 1:04:34.000
<v Speaker 3>side by side, it's always people love to like go

1:04:34.200 --> 1:04:37.080
<v Speaker 3>join the tribe and like are accepted in.

1:04:37.200 --> 1:04:39.560
<v Speaker 2>It seems to be a mix. Like some of these

1:04:39.600 --> 1:04:41.680
<v Speaker 2>people do go back and forth. A couple of these

1:04:41.720 --> 1:04:44.360
<v Speaker 2>guys go back several times, will like try to make

1:04:44.400 --> 1:04:46.720
<v Speaker 2>it in Europe and then head back to the tribe.

1:04:46.760 --> 1:04:49.280
<v Speaker 2>Like some of them have like families that they will

1:04:49.280 --> 1:04:51.720
<v Speaker 2>periodically leave and then come back to So it is

1:04:51.760 --> 1:04:55.880
<v Speaker 2>like a it's like a complicated, for sure exchange here,

1:04:57.360 --> 1:05:00.960
<v Speaker 2>but certainly like like especially the case of Fahy, this

1:05:01.040 --> 1:05:03.000
<v Speaker 2>guy who is like, oh you know what these people rip,

1:05:03.040 --> 1:05:06.760
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to help him kill like these colonizers, right,

1:05:08.120 --> 1:05:11.040
<v Speaker 2>sounds like and then yeah, dies abandoned in a chain

1:05:11.120 --> 1:05:15.760
<v Speaker 2>gang by the British authorities. Yeah. Real bummer, real bummer.

1:05:17.800 --> 1:05:21.200
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, Like fascinating stuff and the fact that it's

1:05:21.200 --> 1:05:22.760
<v Speaker 2>one of those things. One of the things I find

1:05:22.800 --> 1:05:24.480
<v Speaker 2>interesting that we'll talk about more in part two is

1:05:24.800 --> 1:05:27.919
<v Speaker 2>this belief that like these people with white skin are

1:05:28.000 --> 1:05:32.080
<v Speaker 2>like returning spirits, isn't going to last. Right, This is

1:05:32.120 --> 1:05:34.440
<v Speaker 2>a belief that exists primarily when they have not had

1:05:34.440 --> 1:05:38.280
<v Speaker 2>a lot of contact with Europeans. They don't keep believing

1:05:38.320 --> 1:05:41.880
<v Speaker 2>that forever, right, Like, it becomes very clear as they

1:05:41.880 --> 1:05:43.720
<v Speaker 2>have more and more Oh no, no, no, these are

1:05:43.840 --> 1:05:45.960
<v Speaker 2>these people are something else, and they're kind of a

1:05:46.000 --> 1:05:49.400
<v Speaker 2>problem for us, right, Like, this is something that changes

1:05:49.480 --> 1:05:51.880
<v Speaker 2>because this is not a static culture. Right, They're capable,

1:05:51.960 --> 1:05:56.880
<v Speaker 2>like any culture, of adapting to times because they're people, right, Like,

1:05:57.320 --> 1:05:59.320
<v Speaker 2>this isn't just like this is the thing they believed.

1:05:59.440 --> 1:06:01.440
<v Speaker 2>It's like, no, this was like a belief that existed

1:06:01.480 --> 1:06:04.360
<v Speaker 2>at a period of time and changed after contact with

1:06:04.440 --> 1:06:04.960
<v Speaker 2>the world.

1:06:05.120 --> 1:06:08.600
<v Speaker 3>Right on first pass. They were like, they look different.

1:06:08.600 --> 1:06:09.680
<v Speaker 3>There must be a reason for this.

1:06:09.880 --> 1:06:13.240
<v Speaker 2>Oh no, there's yeah, kind of like our dead people.

1:06:13.280 --> 1:06:15.880
<v Speaker 2>Maybe they're like, you know, this is something that happens.

1:06:15.920 --> 1:06:16.280
<v Speaker 3>I don't know.

1:06:17.480 --> 1:06:19.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's not like when you think about like the

1:06:20.080 --> 1:06:22.960
<v Speaker 2>what they had in access to information wise, it's not

1:06:23.000 --> 1:06:27.640
<v Speaker 2>an a logical conclusion to come to initially. So and

1:06:27.680 --> 1:06:30.200
<v Speaker 2>again it's important here at this point, as we kind

1:06:30.200 --> 1:06:32.440
<v Speaker 2>of close this episode out, that I make two acknowledgments.

1:06:32.640 --> 1:06:34.760
<v Speaker 2>The first is that even though the vast bulk of

1:06:34.760 --> 1:06:37.440
<v Speaker 2>the evidence suggests that the people who took in Eliza

1:06:37.520 --> 1:06:40.040
<v Speaker 2>and her husband and shipmates were trying to be kind

1:06:40.160 --> 1:06:42.440
<v Speaker 2>and welcome them in essentially as members of the family,

1:06:43.000 --> 1:06:45.960
<v Speaker 2>this still would have been disorienting and terrifying for Eliza

1:06:46.040 --> 1:06:48.800
<v Speaker 2>and her shipmates, and not just because they're racist, because like,

1:06:49.040 --> 1:06:52.440
<v Speaker 2>you don't know these people language, you don't understand entirely

1:06:52.520 --> 1:06:55.480
<v Speaker 2>what they're trying to do. It is a scary situation,

1:06:55.720 --> 1:06:58.280
<v Speaker 2>even if you're not a bigot. It's like scary because

1:06:58.320 --> 1:07:02.600
<v Speaker 2>you can't communicate direct with these folks, and some of

1:07:02.600 --> 1:07:04.920
<v Speaker 2>them are going to get angry at you, right, like

1:07:05.040 --> 1:07:08.280
<v Speaker 2>because you're not good at hunting and gathering, and you're

1:07:08.400 --> 1:07:10.480
<v Speaker 2>kind of dragging the rest of the group down and

1:07:10.560 --> 1:07:12.480
<v Speaker 2>taking away resources of them, right.

1:07:12.320 --> 1:07:15.160
<v Speaker 3>And you're like another mouth to feed. You're like that baby.

1:07:15.280 --> 1:07:17.720
<v Speaker 3>They're like, God, can I he just fucking bashes ahead

1:07:17.720 --> 1:07:19.800
<v Speaker 3>in with a rock, right could? I? Like, it's what

1:07:20.080 --> 1:07:21.280
<v Speaker 3>are we doing here? Right?

1:07:21.400 --> 1:07:25.280
<v Speaker 2>And like, like many cultures, like there is like corporal

1:07:25.320 --> 1:07:28.640
<v Speaker 2>punishment if you're not pulling your weight, maybe you get smacked, right,

1:07:28.760 --> 1:07:31.400
<v Speaker 2>you get yelled at, or you get smacked, right, Because

1:07:31.920 --> 1:07:34.600
<v Speaker 2>that's just like a thing that's not in common with people,

1:07:34.680 --> 1:07:38.000
<v Speaker 2>and these folks are not They're like children, right like

1:07:38.080 --> 1:07:40.440
<v Speaker 2>you have to they can't. They're not learning how to

1:07:40.480 --> 1:07:42.520
<v Speaker 2>do anything fast enough, and they require a lot of

1:07:42.560 --> 1:07:43.720
<v Speaker 2>food to keep alive.

1:07:44.800 --> 1:07:50.040
<v Speaker 3>So many wacky misunderstandings and understandings, and also just these

1:07:50.080 --> 1:07:52.760
<v Speaker 3>people this is the starving time of the year, so

1:07:52.760 --> 1:07:55.280
<v Speaker 3>you have to also keep in mind when members of

1:07:55.280 --> 1:07:57.960
<v Speaker 3>the Bachola are doing stuff like smacking them for not

1:07:58.040 --> 1:08:01.920
<v Speaker 3>being good at gathering food, they're starving actively because it's

1:08:01.960 --> 1:08:04.840
<v Speaker 3>the starving season, Right, you go hungry at points in

1:08:04.880 --> 1:08:08.560
<v Speaker 3>the year regularly because it's just kind of hard to

1:08:08.640 --> 1:08:11.040
<v Speaker 3>live this way. They gave me a spanking on my

1:08:11.080 --> 1:08:13.800
<v Speaker 3>little bottom, these savages.

1:08:13.400 --> 1:08:16.320
<v Speaker 2>Right, And when we talk about like, yeah, maybe they'd

1:08:16.320 --> 1:08:18.679
<v Speaker 2>get smacked, you know, smacked around or hit or something

1:08:18.720 --> 1:08:21.240
<v Speaker 2>for not doing a job correctly, that is the same

1:08:21.280 --> 1:08:24.559
<v Speaker 2>in the culture they came from. The most common phrase

1:08:24.600 --> 1:08:27.640
<v Speaker 2>to describe how the British Navy is held together in

1:08:27.720 --> 1:08:31.800
<v Speaker 2>this period is rum sodomy and the lash otherwise keeping

1:08:31.840 --> 1:08:34.639
<v Speaker 2>them drunk, letting them fuck each other and whipping them

1:08:34.680 --> 1:08:38.000
<v Speaker 2>until they're bloody when they don't perform at the expected level, right,

1:08:38.400 --> 1:08:41.880
<v Speaker 2>Like Captain Fraser would have whipped people on his ship.

1:08:42.120 --> 1:08:44.640
<v Speaker 2>So the fact that they are also being subject to

1:08:45.120 --> 1:08:48.080
<v Speaker 2>probably some corporal punishment when they fuck up is not

1:08:48.360 --> 1:08:51.960
<v Speaker 2>like alien to them, right, Their own culture does this.

1:08:52.040 --> 1:08:55.200
<v Speaker 3>He's like, but not me, Yeah, Captain Fraser.

1:08:55.600 --> 1:08:59.480
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes people you know, smack each other. It's not uncommon.

1:08:59.520 --> 1:09:03.640
<v Speaker 2>This is not bachola thick. So the worst that we

1:09:03.720 --> 1:09:06.599
<v Speaker 2>might say then about the beatola is they expected these

1:09:06.760 --> 1:09:09.320
<v Speaker 2>guests or ghosts or whatever however they saw them to

1:09:09.400 --> 1:09:11.600
<v Speaker 2>pull their own weight, and they weren't afraid to, like,

1:09:11.840 --> 1:09:14.679
<v Speaker 2>you know, chastise them if they put the group in danger.

1:09:15.360 --> 1:09:18.439
<v Speaker 2>Much of Eliza and the European world's horror at her

1:09:18.520 --> 1:09:20.559
<v Speaker 2>treatment is going to come from the fact that the

1:09:20.600 --> 1:09:22.840
<v Speaker 2>Beatola they didn't It's not that they treated her as

1:09:22.880 --> 1:09:25.680
<v Speaker 2>a slave or as a captive, but they treated her

1:09:25.800 --> 1:09:28.519
<v Speaker 2>like an equal, and for the rest of her life,

1:09:28.600 --> 1:09:31.200
<v Speaker 2>Eliza Fraser is never going to forgive them for this,

1:09:31.439 --> 1:09:34.840
<v Speaker 2>and neither are the Europeans. Jesus, that's all coming in

1:09:34.960 --> 1:09:36.320
<v Speaker 2>part two, Jack.

1:09:36.640 --> 1:09:39.639
<v Speaker 3>That sounds like it's going to be a really fun

1:09:39.720 --> 1:09:42.559
<v Speaker 3>part two without any horrifying information to learn.

1:09:42.680 --> 1:09:45.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no, it's all good. From here. They start a

1:09:45.200 --> 1:09:49.760
<v Speaker 2>dance troop smooth yea, they dance it out, they open

1:09:49.840 --> 1:09:53.240
<v Speaker 2>a B and B together. Yeah, it's great. It's all

1:09:53.280 --> 1:09:58.360
<v Speaker 2>gonna be good. All right, Jack, You anything to plug.

1:09:58.560 --> 1:10:02.480
<v Speaker 3>I do, Robert, thank you so much for asking. I

1:10:02.680 --> 1:10:05.479
<v Speaker 3>co host a show called The Daily Zeitgeist with Miles Gray,

1:10:06.120 --> 1:10:10.400
<v Speaker 3>also a guest on this show in the past. We're

1:10:11.120 --> 1:10:15.840
<v Speaker 3>on there every like every weekday. I believe that can't

1:10:15.880 --> 1:10:19.920
<v Speaker 3>be right. That's too many, too many damn shows. Yeah,

1:10:20.000 --> 1:10:23.840
<v Speaker 3>Monday through Friday we drop at least an episode, so

1:10:24.640 --> 1:10:27.080
<v Speaker 3>you can find me there, and I'm on Twitter at

1:10:27.160 --> 1:10:29.639
<v Speaker 3>Jack Underscore O Brian and on blue Sky at jack

1:10:29.720 --> 1:10:32.880
<v Speaker 3>Obi the number one because I didn't get on Blue

1:10:32.920 --> 1:10:34.120
<v Speaker 3>Sky fast enough.

1:10:34.479 --> 1:10:39.240
<v Speaker 2>Right right, Well, either get on Blue Sky or don't. Honestly,

1:10:39.240 --> 1:10:41.240
<v Speaker 2>I think we've all had enough social media at this point.

1:10:41.280 --> 1:10:42.800
<v Speaker 2>Maybe light your computer on fire.

1:10:44.000 --> 1:10:45.040
<v Speaker 3>That's an interesting idea.

1:10:45.120 --> 1:10:47.440
<v Speaker 2>Burn your own house down with all of your electronics

1:10:47.479 --> 1:10:50.000
<v Speaker 2>in it, except whatever electronics you use to listen to

1:10:50.040 --> 1:10:57.320
<v Speaker 2>this podcast. Don't stop listening to this podcast. Accept this advice.

1:10:57.640 --> 1:11:00.600
<v Speaker 3>Obviously, burn down your neighborhood.

1:11:00.960 --> 1:11:03.879
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, okay, let's end on that note.

1:11:06.920 --> 1:11:09.639
<v Speaker 1>Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1:11:10.000 --> 1:11:13.280
<v Speaker 1>For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia

1:11:13.439 --> 1:11:16.679
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<v Speaker 1>Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Behind the

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<v Speaker 1>Bastards is now available on YouTube, new episodes every Wednesday

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<v Speaker 1>at Behind the Bastards.