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Speaker 1: This is Masters in Business with Barry Ridholts on Boomberg Radio.

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Speaker 1: This week on the podcast, I have an extra special guest.

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Speaker 1: His name is Ralph Scamadela, and he is the head

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Speaker 1: chef and partner at Tao Group, which is one of

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Speaker 1: the largest restaurant groups in the United States. UH. They

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Speaker 1: have some immense restaurants that are in the top ten

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Speaker 1: in terms of total revenue. We've previously spoken to several

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Speaker 1: other restaurateurs, but this is the first time we've had

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Speaker 1: a conversation with someone who is in the restaurant business

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Speaker 1: at this sort of level in terms of being not

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Speaker 1: just national but global. They have restaurants in Australia and

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Speaker 1: Singapore and elsewhere. If you were at all a foodie,

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Speaker 1: if you're interested in the food service industry, if you're

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Speaker 1: interested in understanding what makes certain restaurants successful and others

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Speaker 1: not so successful, you're gonna really enjoy this conversation. With

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Speaker 1: no further ado, my conversation with Ralph Scamadela. My special

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Speaker 1: guest this week is Ralph Scamadela. He is a chef

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Speaker 1: and partner with the Two Group, one of the most

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Speaker 1: successful restaurant and nightclub companies in the United States. The

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Speaker 1: two group operates in New York City, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Sydney,

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Speaker 1: and they run three of the top ten grossing restaurants

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Speaker 1: in the United States, including the single biggest grossing independent restaurant,

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Speaker 1: Tao Asian Bistro in Las Vegas, which in did over

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Speaker 1: forty two and a half million dollars in revenue. Scamadela

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Speaker 1: oversees all of the chefs and concepts in New York,

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Speaker 1: Las Vegas, l A. Uh pretty much. You probably have

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Speaker 1: eaten his food and not even known it. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: last year Madison Square Garden purchased a controlling interest in

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Speaker 1: tal Group. Ralph Scammondello, welcome back to Bloom. Thank you

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Speaker 1: very much, Berry, pleasure to be here. So I did

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Speaker 1: that intro. I should ask for a raise, You definitely should.

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Speaker 1: So I've been looking forward to this conversation. I'm a

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Speaker 1: little bit of a foodie and have eaten in some

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Speaker 1: of your restaurants. But I want to go back, really

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Speaker 1: to the beginning. How did you get interested in cooking?

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Speaker 1: Is this something that you were passionate when you were younger?

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Speaker 1: Did you just kind of develop it later in life.

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Speaker 1: I grew up in an Italian American home, so my

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Speaker 1: parents were always My father worked, my mother was always

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Speaker 1: home cooking. And I got a job working in a

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Speaker 1: restaurant when I was very young, and a chef in

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Speaker 1: that restaurant took a liking to me and just would

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Speaker 1: help let me help out in the kitchen while I

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Speaker 1: was doing bus play work. I was doing way to work,

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Speaker 1: and he encouraged me to go to school for it

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Speaker 1: and really so that I had a knack for it,

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Speaker 1: and he really guided me to go to New York

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Speaker 1: City Community College and then uh, when I graduated high school,

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Speaker 1: I went to Grady High School in Brooklyn. It's a

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Speaker 1: tech vocational school. I wanted to be an electrical electrician,

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Speaker 1: electrical engineer. I wasn't sure, but when I he encouraged

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Speaker 1: me to go to New York City hotel and restaurant.

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Speaker 1: And when I graduated high school, his good friend of

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Speaker 1: his was the chef at the Plaza Hotel in Manhattan,

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Speaker 1: and he got me a job working at the Plaza Hotel.

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Speaker 1: So it was like from being in a small restaurant

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Speaker 1: in Brooklyn to the biggest hotel pretty much in New

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Speaker 1: York or anywhere in America. Was unbelievable. So do you

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Speaker 1: find most of modern chefs today? Are they going to

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Speaker 1: restaurant schools like huminary institutor elsewhere or are they a

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Speaker 1: combination of self taught or mentored along the way. Where

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Speaker 1: where are most of our I think most of them

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Speaker 1: go to school? But there you know, it's not there's

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Speaker 1: no one that's the one thing that's great about the

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Speaker 1: restaurant business. Now there is no one path of success.

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Speaker 1: Right when I was growing up and you wanted to

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Speaker 1: be a chef, and you wanted to be an accomplished chef,

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Speaker 1: you had to do your internship and then you had

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Speaker 1: to do you had to be a comee in a

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Speaker 1: French restaurant, You had to work for a big hotel,

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Speaker 1: you had to work for a great chef, and you

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Speaker 1: had to go through this long, arduous path. Now you

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Speaker 1: could develop the greatest hot dog, the greatest burger, and

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Speaker 1: you can be recognized for so many things, different things.

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Speaker 1: Not only is a chef, but become a successful business

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Speaker 1: person doing it. So I think that to be the

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Speaker 1: most successful, school and education helps you not only with

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Speaker 1: knowing how to roast the chicken, not just using that,

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Speaker 1: but understanding the business. What to look for in the business,

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Speaker 1: how to make the money, how to hold onto the money,

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Speaker 1: how to spend the money correctly. So it's more than

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Speaker 1: just the base technicals of cooking. You really have to

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Speaker 1: underthink like an entrepreneur, not necessarily just a chef. I

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Speaker 1: mean when we went to school, was you had to

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Speaker 1: take hotel accounting, accounting, beverage and inventory control stuff. Why

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Speaker 1: do I need this? Like my kids would say to me, Oh,

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Speaker 1: why do I need algebra in high school? You're never

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Speaker 1: gonna but you do use it, and learning those skills,

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Speaker 1: those mathematical skills and standing business is super important to

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Speaker 1: be successful. So you've been working in the restaurant field

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Speaker 1: in New York City for a long time. Not too

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Speaker 1: long ago, we spoke to Bobby Flay about opening a

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Speaker 1: restaurant in Manhattan, and he described it as the most

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Speaker 1: difficult place in the world to open a restaurant. He's

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Speaker 1: never opened a restaurant Singapore. That's yeah, because the government is,

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Speaker 1: you know, on top of you. But New York is

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Speaker 1: pretty very restrictive, and it really comes from lots of

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Speaker 1: people for years taking advantage of the system, like building

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Speaker 1: people not falling building permits correctly. These people that stole

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Speaker 1: the gas downtown and like is he? That was one

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Speaker 1: of my favorites, Carnegie restaurants. Who steals gas? What if

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Speaker 1: it's not like millions of dollars and I get it man,

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Speaker 1: and the risk is definitely not worth the reward. That

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Speaker 1: that's totally asymmetric. Let's talk about some of the technological

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Speaker 1: advances that we see in modern kitchens. How has technology changed?

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Speaker 1: Is it easier to run a big kitchen or is

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Speaker 1: it just an additional complication using It's a little bit

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Speaker 1: easier to run it. You know, you from the computer

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Speaker 1: systems that help you control inventory, watch, purchasing to just

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Speaker 1: managing the kitchen, managing employees payroll. Now, it used to

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Speaker 1: be when I started at the Plaza tell my daily

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Speaker 1: rate was two dollars and thirty six cents an hour.

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Speaker 1: It's like fifteen hour, so you're really managing people on

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Speaker 1: the half hour now, So technology of punging in, punching

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Speaker 1: out managing those people, but also the cooking techniques. That's

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Speaker 1: what I was gonna ask. There's so many new technological

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Speaker 1: gadgets that you could use, from from the souve days

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Speaker 1: to down the road. How does that help or does

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Speaker 1: it just make it more challenging. Uh. No, it does

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Speaker 1: help out a lot, especially the Combie ovens where they heat,

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Speaker 1: they hold, you can use less employees and the product.

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Speaker 1: You don't really lose anything in a product. If it

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Speaker 1: was years ago, you would have to have a whole

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Speaker 1: crew prepping and then putting it in oven, taking it out,

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Speaker 1: cooling it and reheating it. There. There's technology now where

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Speaker 1: you make items, you cook them to a certain temperature,

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Speaker 1: you'll hold them at that temperature and then you really

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Speaker 1: reheat them and serve them out. So especially for big banquets.

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Speaker 1: We do a lot of banquets in Vegas. It's been

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Speaker 1: a big, huge help for us. But some of those,

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Speaker 1: like Suvie techniques, I think those some of that is

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Speaker 1: come and gone. I think that in the beginning, when

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Speaker 1: it came in, it was a cool idea and a

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Speaker 1: lot of chefs used it, but I think it's gotten

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Speaker 1: to the point where it's overused. I don't really like

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Speaker 1: using it for red meats or heavy meats. For chicken

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Speaker 1: and certain vegetables, it makes them great, but you've got

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Speaker 1: to use some of those techniques are you have to

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Speaker 1: really understand how to use those and what the outcome

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Speaker 1: is going to be. Not just to say oh, it's

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Speaker 1: suvied and that's gonna make it great. That's just not

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Speaker 1: the not the case. Let's let's talk a little bit

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Speaker 1: about the cooking aspect of being in a restaurant. What

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Speaker 1: does it take to make a great chef? Well, that's uh. Firstly,

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Speaker 1: you gotta have passion for it. You know, you gotta

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Speaker 1: want to do it, and struggle through learning, self learning,

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Speaker 1: taking instruction, taking a lot of criticisms. We also have

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Speaker 1: to like any artist or artists in I like to say,

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Speaker 1: forget about artists, but you have to learn all the

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Speaker 1: techniques of proper roasting, proper grilling, proper stain, proper cutting,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of I think that's some of the

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Speaker 1: things that get lost is really understanding all the basic

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Speaker 1: techniques and knowing how to use those techniques and combine them.

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Speaker 1: How does that differ from someone who is passionate about

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Speaker 1: food at home and it's a pretty good chef on

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Speaker 1: their own. What does it take to transition to actually

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Speaker 1: being a head chef in a restaurant? Uh, cooking and

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Speaker 1: being a chef, to me are two completely different things.

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Speaker 1: Chef has to be a good cook, but a great

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Speaker 1: cook can't always be a great chef. There it's a

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Speaker 1: chef is a person who runs the business, who runs

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Speaker 1: the back of the house, runs the kitchen. Has to

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Speaker 1: know what all the other employees are doing in the kitchen,

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Speaker 1: has to know, like if you're on the STA station,

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Speaker 1: everything that's in that state station, what your musing plus is,

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Speaker 1: what your recipes are. You're correct, You're executing those recipes correctly,

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Speaker 1: over and over again. It's at home, you're you know,

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Speaker 1: when I cook at home, I make grilled chicken, I'm

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Speaker 1: making it famili and the kids in the family, and

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Speaker 1: that's it. And when you're in the restaurant, you may

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Speaker 1: you may be making hundreds of them. So if you

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Speaker 1: come in at eleven thirty on Tuesday, you want to

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Speaker 1: come back at a elemit thirty on Friday, have the

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Speaker 1: same exact experience that takes a chef, somebody with skill

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Speaker 1: who knows how to teach, who knows how to set

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Speaker 1: that kitchen up correctly, and make the teach those techniques

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Speaker 1: and set up the musing plus correctly. So so it's

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Speaker 1: really a matter of organization and running a team more

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Speaker 1: than just being a skilled correct. Huh, they're they're interesting.

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Speaker 1: So when you're you run a number of restaurants, how

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Speaker 1: do you spot talent? How do you identify who's going

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Speaker 1: to be a good chef, either to hire or promote.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like a really challenging thing. Talent. You know,

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Speaker 1: that is a tough one because there are there are people,

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Speaker 1: like I said, who can't cook, and then when you

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Speaker 1: put them in a roll over responsibility just a mere

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Speaker 1: fact of the anxiety of having to watch over other people,

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Speaker 1: be responsible for other people. It takes a lot for

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Speaker 1: for employees and people to get over. One of the

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Speaker 1: things is you'll see somebody who's working. He's a hard

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Speaker 1: working They're a hard working person. They're consistent, they cook good,

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Speaker 1: they come up with specials, they come to you, they

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Speaker 1: interact with you. You see how they move, how they

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Speaker 1: just you know, there's a lot like watching a great

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Speaker 1: basketball player, a great baseball player. They have a feel

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Speaker 1: and a style and lots of moves and and you

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Speaker 1: pick up on that, and a lot of these people

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Speaker 1: can once they get to the next level, just dealing

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Speaker 1: with the anxiety and stuff on them. And I think

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Speaker 1: we try to teach them a little by little of Okay,

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Speaker 1: you're a great cook, you do a great job on

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Speaker 1: your station. You've really done a lot of these things.

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Speaker 1: Now let's teach you how to be a chef, because

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Speaker 1: I always say to guys, if you're a great whatever

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Speaker 1: sote guy, are a great grill guy, you can only

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Speaker 1: make so much money. You're not gonna pay the saute

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Speaker 1: man the same way you would pay the sus chef

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Speaker 1: for the executive chef. So for you to grow into

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Speaker 1: not only make more money for yourself, but grow the

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Speaker 1: business and educate yourself and maybe do whatever you want

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Speaker 1: on your own, you have to overcome these challenges. What

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Speaker 1: are the differences and responsibilities for the sioux chef versus

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Speaker 1: I assume the executive chef. The buck stops with them.

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Speaker 1: There's charge of everything from ordering to food quality to

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Speaker 1: what the recipes are. The next uh lieutenant, the Sioux chef,

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Speaker 1: what do they do? So chefs do everything. The chef

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Speaker 1: does as little as possible that those guys are always

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Speaker 1: working and those uh that used to be When I

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Speaker 1: was a Sioux chef, I made sure the chef had

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Speaker 1: very little to do. I mean the chef, the executive

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Speaker 1: chef has final say over the menu, the food the

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Speaker 1: He's the ultimate. They are the ultimate, and what the

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Speaker 1: food quality is, what the dish looks like, tastes like,

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Speaker 1: when it's executed, and the viability of running that business.

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Speaker 1: They're responsible for food costs, are responsible for labor costs.

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Speaker 1: We also make all our chefs responsible for the facility.

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Speaker 1: So it's taking care of the equipment, managing that equipment,

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Speaker 1: because buying a out, you know, a blender item makes

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Speaker 1: this ovens a forty dollars. These days, it's not like

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Speaker 1: you buy an oven for six hundred bucks, put it in,

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Speaker 1: it works. Everything's so expensive. So you mentioned taste. How

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Speaker 1: do you two questions on taste? How do you make

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Speaker 1: sure a dish is consistent not only from meal to meal,

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Speaker 1: but you have restaurants all over the country. How do

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Speaker 1: you keep that consistent? And when you're designing a dish,

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Speaker 1: are you trying to be as broadly focused as possible

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Speaker 1: or or are some dishes designed for a special niche

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Speaker 1: niche audience and a special bunch of It's definitely a

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Speaker 1: little bit of both. At the answered the first question.

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Speaker 1: When you get a recipe at home, you look at

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Speaker 1: a recipe and it's a cup of this, a teaspoon

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Speaker 1: of that. One of the things we try to do

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Speaker 1: is really measure everything out, so someone's on the line

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Speaker 1: and it's a spoon of this, a spoon of that.

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Speaker 1: It will always be the four ounce later will be.

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Speaker 1: It's never a pinch or season to taste. I think

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Speaker 1: salt and pepper, and you really see it. You'll go

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Speaker 1: to we have restaurants in New York where the food

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Speaker 1: is seasoned here and people go out to Las Vegas

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Speaker 1: and have the same dish. Oh, it didn't taste the same.

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Speaker 1: It didn't. The taste of that clientele in Vegas is

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Speaker 1: totally different, different age, different demograph, level of salt, different

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Speaker 1: level of pepper. And then you go to Los Angeles

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Speaker 1: and it's different again. They everybody had all their you know,

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Speaker 1: McDonald's does the same thing. Big corporations will see what

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Speaker 1: people like to eat and how they like dishes seasoned

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Speaker 1: or levels of seasoning, and they'll they'll play up to that.

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Speaker 1: You have to adapt to the local. Huh, that's fascinating.

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Speaker 1: Never would have guessed that. So you mentioned you cook

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Speaker 1: at home for the kids. What do you eat at home?

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Speaker 1: How different is it from what you're cooking in the

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Speaker 1: rest Well, first I have to do all the work myself.

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Speaker 1: When I'm at the restaurant, there's always somebody can say,

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Speaker 1: get this, get that. Cleanness, pats you with like an

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Speaker 1: assembly line with the kids peeling potatoes, nothing like that.

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Speaker 1: And I'm not always but I you don't. Again, my

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Speaker 1: my wife and I elait this, and then my son

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Speaker 1: will only eat certain dishes. My daughter, who's thirteen, will

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Speaker 1: only eat certain dishes. So I try to make a

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Speaker 1: little bit of everything for everybody. But now the summer

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Speaker 1: is great, so it's all about barbecue. It's a salad,

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Speaker 1: one vegetable and then grilled meat and grilled fish. That's

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Speaker 1: why I like the summer makes life easy. Let's let's

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Speaker 1: talk a little bit about life in the kitchen at

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Speaker 1: a big shop like yours. Um, what's it like being

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Speaker 1: a chef? I would imagine the hours a pretty brutal.

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Speaker 1: Hours are brutal, but I think that anybody who's in

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Speaker 1: any profession has brutal hours. I don't you know, talk

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Speaker 1: to a lawyer or an electrician or somebody. They're always

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Speaker 1: working lots of hours. They're working hard. Huh. The one

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Speaker 1: thing about the restaurant is that It never closes right,

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Speaker 1: even if the you close for dinner or service ends

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Speaker 1: at eleven o'clock, there's always somebody there's cleaning, is putting

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Speaker 1: stuff away, getting ready for the next day, checking mesu

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Speaker 1: plats for the next day. The chef is always forecasting

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Speaker 1: for tomorrow, looking at what he needs, for what they

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Speaker 1: need for tomorrow, who's coming in this day and age employees.

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Speaker 1: Employees calling out is always a big thing. So we're

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Speaker 1: always jumping in and helping out on the line and

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Speaker 1: moving How do you balance that with a personal life

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Speaker 1: If it's that, it's tough, but you know, one of

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Speaker 1: the things that we do is that unless there's some

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Speaker 1: big circumstances where got people have to work six days

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Speaker 1: a week or work a double shift, we really focus

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Speaker 1: and emphasize that everybody takes it two days off, every

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Speaker 1: takes their vacation. When you take your vacation, you make

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Speaker 1: sure you leave your phone home, don't answer emails, don't

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Speaker 1: reply to email if you are answering those emails, So

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Speaker 1: that downtime and off time is super important. I'm a

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Speaker 1: strong believer in it, and I make sure that the

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Speaker 1: whole team follows that rule. So years, many years ago.

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Speaker 1: I worked in a kitchen um as a short order

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Speaker 1: chef and a waiter in a bartender in college, and

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Speaker 1: I always noticed that some kitchens would really well oiled machines.

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Speaker 1: Everybody knew what they had to do and it was

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Speaker 1: pretty clear how things ran. How do you scale that

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Speaker 1: up to an operation the size of yours. If you're

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Speaker 1: doing forty million dollars in sales and just one location,

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Speaker 1: this is really a military type operation, isn't it. It

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Speaker 1: is a military type operation, But we definitely take that

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Speaker 1: same focus that you said. It's a small mom and

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Speaker 1: pop and we take every station and we break it down.

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Speaker 1: So if there are seven stations in the kitchen, each

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Speaker 1: station is responsible for nine dishes or eight dishes, so

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Speaker 1: you can really focus in on a soux. Chef will

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Speaker 1: walk around and make sure they taste and monitor those.

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Speaker 1: So as the food comes up, it's a huge past.

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Speaker 1: The line is about twenty five ft and everyone is

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Speaker 1: putting up the dishes that they're responsible for that part

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Speaker 1: of the menu. So if you compartmentalize all the food,

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Speaker 1: it's not like you'll go there and make the salad,

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Speaker 1: then run to the other side and make the noodles.

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Speaker 1: Then run to the other side and make the fish.

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Speaker 1: Every single person has a set of responsibilities the measing,

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Speaker 1: plus lists and things that they have to be ready,

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Speaker 1: and we monitor and check those things before service, enduring

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Speaker 1: services plus meaning everything in its place, sliced. As an

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Speaker 1: order comes in for pattie, you're not slicing the radishes,

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Speaker 1: you're not slicing the chicken. Everything is ready to go

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Speaker 1: and it's assembled. When when the order you mentioned there

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Speaker 1: are seven stations. What are the seven stations? Uh, there's garminer,

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Speaker 1: pastry and tow would be dim some grill, hot apps,

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Speaker 1: saute and walk in the kitchen, and then there's a

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Speaker 1: sushi station which is a free standing and um, what

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Speaker 1: do you think are the biggest misconceptions people have about

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Speaker 1: how restaurants run? And I asked this having as again

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Speaker 1: a person who goes out to eat a lot I

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Speaker 1: and was a waiter. I'm always surprised at the comments

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Speaker 1: people have for two waiters and it's like, oh, you've

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Speaker 1: obviously never worked in the kitchen. Otherwise you've never asked

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Speaker 1: I wanted a big misconceptions The chef is actually cooking

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Speaker 1: every dish. That's oh my god, what have he don't know.

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Speaker 1: And it's impossible for especially in a restaurant of our size,

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Speaker 1: that the chef is cooking every dish. But he's he's

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Speaker 1: creating every dish. He's coming up with it, and he's

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Speaker 1: monitoring and working with the team as they produce it.

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Speaker 1: And for us, like someone came in one day and

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Speaker 1: we had the lobster delivery. Came in and there were

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Speaker 1: probably foeces of lobster and somebody said, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: I thought you used frozen. Why would you think that

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Speaker 1: we used frozen. We get it delivered twice a week

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Speaker 1: from Maine, you know, we take it, we break it down,

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Speaker 1: we we we cook it, and we get it ready

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Speaker 1: for that service, and we do it fresh every single day.

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Speaker 1: So there's a lot of misconceptions about how those things

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Speaker 1: get done. What does it take to create a new dish,

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Speaker 1: what does that process like? So usually one of us

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Speaker 1: will come up with an idea, all I have an idea,

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Speaker 1: or the chef will have an idea, and then we

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Speaker 1: we kind of collaborate on it. For if it's seasonal

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Speaker 1: now summer and spring is great, lots of different products

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Speaker 1: come in and we'll test those out and I'll make something,

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Speaker 1: or the chef will make something, and then we have

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Speaker 1: a couple of corporate chefs will come in and then

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Speaker 1: everybody will collaborate on that dish and add a seasoning

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Speaker 1: or take something away and really try to maximize not

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Speaker 1: only the flavors, but the execution of that dish. Where

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Speaker 1: are we going to pick it up from, how is

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Speaker 1: he going to get How is it gonna look and

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Speaker 1: taste exactly the same way we just made it. So

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Speaker 1: that goes a lot into the thought of how to

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Speaker 1: make a dish, like is it coming out of the

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Speaker 1: station where we're holding the means and plause? What do

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Speaker 1: we have to make ahead of time? What can we

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Speaker 1: make at the moment, and how can we get that

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Speaker 1: same experience over and over and over again each guest?

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Speaker 1: That is, how how often do you change up the menu?

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Speaker 1: The bulk of the menu is kind of static because

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Speaker 1: there's hits, those big famous hits that everybody loves, Like

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Speaker 1: going to a def Leppard concert, you gotta hear those

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Speaker 1: ten songs. That's all that people want to hear. And

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Speaker 1: then there's about a certain percentage that we swap in

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Speaker 1: and out every year, but there's always special So once

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Speaker 1: a year. We change the menu, and it's probably teen

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Speaker 1: per cent of it that goes on and goes off

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Speaker 1: based on seasonality, and something's work and some things don't work.

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Speaker 1: But specials are always ever changing. We run four or

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Speaker 1: five specials a day. Let's let's talk a little bit

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Speaker 1: about the business of running a restaurant. You have some

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Speaker 1: really big operations in New York, in Las Vegas, in

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles. I think I saw a list that three

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Speaker 1: of the ten top grossing restaurants were talent groups. How

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Speaker 1: do you make sure that every customer experience will hold

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Speaker 1: the seasoning aside for regional difference. We call them guests,

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Speaker 1: though every every guest gets the same experience no matter

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Speaker 1: where the restaurant is. I think it's for us. It

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Speaker 1: starts with finding the right employees, are people and teaching

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Speaker 1: them hospitality. I think that you can you have to

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Speaker 1: find good people. Right. You can teach anybody how to cook,

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Speaker 1: you can teach anybody how to do any of the

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Speaker 1: basic skills that you need for the restaurant business. But

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Speaker 1: finding the right people, finding a good people who are

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Speaker 1: into the hospitality business, who really want to give the

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Speaker 1: best guest experiences. The most important thing that we do

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Speaker 1: finding the right people. What does it cost to open

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Speaker 1: a new restaurant in a city like New York of

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Speaker 1: Las Vegas these days depends on this square foot. It's

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Speaker 1: probably two thousand dollars of square foot, three thousand dollars

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Speaker 1: of square foot. That's several millions, seven million dollars, right.

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Speaker 1: What Why is the failure rate so high for restaurants?

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Speaker 1: I don't know if this is anecdotal, but I always

412
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Speaker 1: here are gone within three years or some number like that.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that just because you make the

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Speaker 1: greatest souffle or the greatest steak, you have to to

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Speaker 1: me for us anyway, The real estate is the most

416
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Speaker 1: important part of the deal, right You have to have

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Speaker 1: the right space in the right location at the right rent,

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Speaker 1: and one wants all those If you're paying exorbitant rent

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Speaker 1: and you have a snowstorm, something happens business, you know,

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Speaker 1: like so you have to plan for those things. You

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Speaker 1: have to plan for war. When the business ebbs and

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Speaker 1: flows and the rent is constant, pay them regardless of

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Speaker 1: what happened. People in the Hampton's doesn't matter. That's it.

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Speaker 1: I think one of the things that's one of the

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Speaker 1: biggest misconceptions is someone That's why going to school and

426
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Speaker 1: understanding the business end of it is super important. Understanding

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Speaker 1: projecting out, Hey, I can do forty dollars a week

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Speaker 1: in business, my rent factor is six percent. I can

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Speaker 1: always make money. If I do forty thousand a week

430
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,080
Speaker 1: and I dipped the twenty and my rent is seven,

431
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:31,720
Speaker 1: I can still make money. But if my rent is

432
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,959
Speaker 1: double that and it's and my rent fact that goes

433
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:38,840
Speaker 1: up to you're gonna have to make care your in trouble.

434
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:41,960
Speaker 1: So so real estate costs in in a big city

435
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:45,000
Speaker 1: is the most challenging thing I think. So yeah, what

436
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:47,720
Speaker 1: about overseas? I know you guys have places in Australia

437
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,760
Speaker 1: and you mentioned Singapore more or less the same concept

438
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,760
Speaker 1: or you're not dealing like San Francisco, New York. The

439
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:57,560
Speaker 1: rents have to be crazy. But in in Sydney and

440
00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:00,359
Speaker 1: in Singapore or in a hotel, so we're in star

441
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:03,760
Speaker 1: In in Sydney and Marina based sands, so we do

442
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:07,200
Speaker 1: have rent deals, but the hotel or all partners, so

443
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:11,439
Speaker 1: it's a base rent and a percentage rent, so it's manageable.

444
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,800
Speaker 1: So it doesn't matter you're someone, it always managed. Is

445
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,600
Speaker 1: that true with most So there's a sort of odd

446
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 1: thing here in New York that there are a lot

447
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:24,200
Speaker 1: of big hotels that have restaurants inside. Some are fairly

448
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:29,040
Speaker 1: famous named brands, and some are lesser known entities. Is

449
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:34,639
Speaker 1: that financing structure similar where the hotel is subsidizing the

450
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,000
Speaker 1: rent because they want the space there for guests or

451
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:40,200
Speaker 1: how do they Each one is individual? But I think

452
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,160
Speaker 1: you find more and more now that the individual operator

453
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,959
Speaker 1: puts up very little of their own cash and the

454
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 1: base build or the hotel will finance the whole project.

455
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,480
Speaker 1: There'll be a partner and you'll get less of a

456
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:55,840
Speaker 1: percentage on the front end and less a percentage on

457
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,560
Speaker 1: the back end, but they'll finance the whole project for you.

458
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,240
Speaker 1: So that becomes fine, actually attractive. There's little risk when

459
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 1: you're a little risk less risk. There's always risk of

460
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 1: you know, getting employees not making money, signing to a

461
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,200
Speaker 1: deal that may not be as lucrative as you want,

462
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 1: doing all this work and finding out three of the

463
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:19,680
Speaker 1: net is nothing. So why is it that so many

464
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 1: people seem to be attracted to investing in restaurants? Is

465
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:26,840
Speaker 1: it just a hobbyist thing? It's like a movie or

466
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 1: Broadway show. Right, it's like the worst investments in the world.

467
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 1: Don't go that far. We're looking at the money. I

468
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 1: mean well, I mean it's super sexy, right, and it's

469
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:42,639
Speaker 1: it's action, and it's people, and it's the The afrodisiac

470
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 1: of opening a restaurant is great. Man. People come in,

471
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 1: they see you, and people who wanted to stand it

472
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 1: for the business or very are smart about investing. And

473
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 1: I don't know, it looks easy to everybody. I guess

474
00:24:54,080 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 1: the restaurant it makes hard and it's done the the machine.

475
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 1: That's it. Oh my god, they charged in twenty seven

476
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 1: dollars for a chicken. I go to the store. Its

477
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:09,000
Speaker 1: five dollars. How is that possible? Yeah, it's so not true,

478
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,959
Speaker 1: but that's what people think. So if you had to

479
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 1: decide the most important job in the restaurant, not counting

480
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:19,720
Speaker 1: the chef, who do you sign that task to? Well,

481
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 1: you know, I always say that every single person in

482
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 1: that restaurant matters, from the person who sweeps outside, receives

483
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,399
Speaker 1: the delivery and puts it away, And think that every

484
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:34,200
Speaker 1: single person in that chain has a a very important

485
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,880
Speaker 1: part to play in a guest experience. Coming in coming

486
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,679
Speaker 1: up to a restaurant that's dirty on the outside, you

487
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 1: know you want it clean, you want it sharp. Every

488
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 1: single job in a restaurant is important. I have to

489
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 1: totally agree with you. We had a very nice meal

490
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 1: the other day at a very nice restaurant. I won't

491
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:52,000
Speaker 1: mention and the bus boys, I don't know if they

492
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,159
Speaker 1: were trying to break the dishes, but they were just

493
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:56,439
Speaker 1: and it was just one of those little things that

494
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 1: I noticed that chief a really nice restaurant. They should

495
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 1: teach these guys not to slam um everything down. It

496
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 1: should be more gentle, because half the restaurant's had whipped

497
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 1: around every time, and that happened throughout. I was shot people,

498
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 1: and it takes away from the experience, Like is the

499
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 1: bus way important? Yeah, sure that that person is very important.

500
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:17,200
Speaker 1: From the same way, you walk in and the major

501
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 1: d or the host greets you and says a low

502
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 1: and then the server comes over and takes your order

503
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,879
Speaker 1: in the chef and the the person who received those goods,

504
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:26,399
Speaker 1: did they take care of them that they put them

505
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,440
Speaker 1: away the right way so the food doesn't spoil everything.

506
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 1: And it's every single thing matters everything. It doesn't it

507
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 1: has a big impact on the experience. Um, do you

508
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 1: have any thoughts on this tipping or not movement that

509
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 1: seems to be gaining It's it's you know, it's difficult

510
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 1: because tipping in upstate New York or smaller counties where

511
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 1: it's super valuable to the employee, and whenoun employee or

512
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 1: waiter gets serving gets stiffed in one of those, they're

513
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:59,640
Speaker 1: not making any money. In New York it's different. There's

514
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 1: the yell of people coming in, the amount of business

515
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 1: that we do, so paying a server thirteen fourteen dollars

516
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 1: an hour is very tough on the restaurants in New

517
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 1: York and I believe in the end it's it's changing

518
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:13,680
Speaker 1: the face of the restaurant business in New York City,

519
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 1: and certain restaurants with servers will be elite kind of

520
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 1: high end restaurant because most people won't be able to

521
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:22,359
Speaker 1: afford it. I mean, you think we're better off just

522
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 1: keeping tipping as it is and not ye, I could

523
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:27,880
Speaker 1: totally see that. So when you want to go out

524
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 1: for fun, what sort of what are you looking in

525
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 1: in a restaurant when you're dining out? So I have

526
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:35,480
Speaker 1: different if we go out to eat as a team.

527
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 1: We go to look to see an experience. Who who's

528
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 1: doing something in Asian food, who's doing something in Italian food?

529
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 1: Or the dishes interesting. If I'm going out with my family,

530
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:47,679
Speaker 1: it's someplace where my kids can destroy and have a

531
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:49,400
Speaker 1: good time and I don't have to worry about them

532
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 1: and just have a nice glass of wine and relax.

533
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 1: So it's all about what we're trying to do and

534
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 1: what we're trying to accomplish. Will go out and as

535
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 1: a team and will we went to that in steakhouse

536
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:03,160
Speaker 1: cult and so ten of us went out. We ordered

537
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 1: everything on the menu. We tried everything. Literally, how many

538
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 1: ten people just bring us two of these like I'll

539
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 1: always go like, there's a green salad, we don't want that,

540
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,119
Speaker 1: but bring everything else? Do people recognize you when you

541
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 1: go out? You have to have other people in the

542
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 1: restaurant industry say some people, I mean, because nobody ever

543
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,199
Speaker 1: try to be as incognito was possible, not that anybody

544
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,400
Speaker 1: would know me, but you know, the restaurant business very

545
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,680
Speaker 1: incestuous in the city, so service could have There was

546
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 1: a bartender there and a server that worked for us

547
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 1: in town. Something knows automatically does that mean you get

548
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 1: better service or it depends on what depends. But they

549
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 1: had a good time at town or not. I don't

550
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 1: I don't know. But so when you are looking at

551
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 1: a restaurant, what what would it take to get you

552
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 1: to invest in a restaurant that wasn't part of your group?

553
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 1: What would you be looking for? I know you probably

554
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 1: are precluded from doing that, but but if you were

555
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 1: thinking about that, like, what what sort of things catch

556
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 1: your eye as a potential investor? Want to things the concept?

557
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 1: What the concept is and what it's driven by. Is

558
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 1: it driven by a steakhouse? Is it a concept that

559
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 1: goes across all different genres? Is it a businessman restaurant

560
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 1: or is it specific to a ethnic cuisine? What's the

561
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 1: location and what what is the P and L say?

562
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 1: What do the multiple say? Are they do they have

563
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 1: the right scale? Are you charging enough? So if it's

564
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 1: only sixty seats and people say well we can do

565
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 1: three million a year, three million a year at sixty seats,

566
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 1: how much money are you gonna make off that investment

567
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 1: if you leave you if you took that half a

568
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 1: million dollars and lifting in a bank and made two

569
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:38,480
Speaker 1: percent on a CD, you would make more money and

570
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 1: it's safer. You have to have the right size restaurant

571
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 1: with the right concept and the right location and enough

572
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,719
Speaker 1: scale to make that investment worth it. So most of

573
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 1: what I see with the Towel group, there's there's tow

574
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 1: the whole run of Asian restaurants. Um, what are you

575
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 1: do in terms of steak and in terms of Italian

576
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 1: we do Lava, which is an Italian steakhouse. We have

577
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 1: one in New York, one in Las Vegas, one in Singapore,

578
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 1: So that kind of encompasses the Italian Italian American kind

579
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 1: of food from New York, New York neighborhood food with steak.

580
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 1: And we have Legacy, which is a seafood restaurant in

581
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 1: the Moxi Hotel, Tao Beauty, and Essex Vandal. So it's

582
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 1: lots of different concepts, but Tao is definitely our biggest

583
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 1: concept that we have and it's the most famous. And um,

584
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 1: when you when you go around to restaurants in Manhattan

585
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 1: is part of the back of your head always running

586
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 1: those numbers, like what they're doing first, seeing what ideas

587
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 1: I could steal and take it make our own, because

588
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 1: you know you're always looking to improve yourself. Anyone who

589
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 1: says we do everything perfect and we do everything great

590
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 1: and we do the best food, the best guest experience

591
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 1: is just fooling themselves. You're always looking where I'm always

592
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 1: looking for that edge and seeing what people are doing.

593
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 1: Is there any innovation and to see kind of business

594
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 1: are doing and in a location, is it's sustainable? Is it?

595
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 1: Is it gonna be a threat? Is it gonna be something?

596
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 1: Who or part of that concept that maybe there is

597
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 1: something there and they can make something of it. You know,

598
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 1: you're always thinking when you're looking and seeing what's going on. Interesting.

599
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 1: Can you see where they're investing the money in right

600
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 1: that they spend money on five in flowers and no

601
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 1: money on linen and linnen? Is that really where you

602
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 1: want to go? So I'll interesting? Can you stick around

603
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 1: a little bit some more questions for you. We have

604
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,479
Speaker 1: been speaking with Ralph Scamadela. He is chef and partner

605
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 1: at the Towel Group. Be sure and check out our

606
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 1: podcast Actually is where we keep the tape rolling and

607
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 1: continue discussing all things fine dining. We love your comments,

608
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 1: feedback and suggestions right to us at m IB podcast

609
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:43,240
Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot net. You can check out my daily

610
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 1: column on Bloomberg dot com. Follow me on Twitter at

611
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 1: Rick Halts. I'm Barry Helts. You're listening to Masters in

612
00:31:50,000 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 1: Business on Bloomberg. Yeah, welcome to the podcast, Ralph. Thank

613
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:09,719
Speaker 1: you so much for doing this. I find this topic

614
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 1: absolutely fascinating, not only because I like to cook a

615
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 1: little bit and I certainly like to eat um, but

616
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 1: wherever I go, I'm I'm burdened with that mathematical knowledge

617
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 1: of looking around and saying, it's a really good restaurant,

618
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 1: but how the hell are they making any money? If

619
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 1: a Friday night, this place is half empty. The food

620
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 1: is great, where is everybody? Do you ever have experiences like, yeah,

621
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 1: Thane having a great time doing a show also and

622
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 1: it's great. Uh. You know, when you not only look

623
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 1: for the food experience, but you always look for the

624
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 1: business experience of like, what's going on? What are they doing?

625
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 1: Why aren't they busy? Why are they busy? That's lots

626
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 1: of you know, people will look at taw and say,

627
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 1: oh my god, they're so busy, let's open up right

628
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 1: next door, and they don't because is it the business

629
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 1: in the areas I think too is especially it is

630
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 1: the destinations. Destination is a special experience. No one's walking

631
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 1: by and saying, oh, let's pop in for a snack.

632
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 1: Everyone's going there, and it's a completely immersive experience. Right.

633
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 1: It's it looks great, food is good, the service is great,

634
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 1: but the feel and the vibe of the place, it's

635
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 1: it's all about going out and having the experience. So

636
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,360
Speaker 1: there's a restaurant group on Long Island. I won't mention

637
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 1: their name, and they just opens up this immense restaurant,

638
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 1: Mediterranean restaurant, of which there are a number of on

639
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 1: Long Island. Um uh Chima is, Juan Lamani is another one,

640
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,520
Speaker 1: and so a third one is Giant Place of MP

641
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 1: Taverner is a third one. But this giant place opens

642
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 1: up and we walk in and it's just gorgeous. It's spectacular,

643
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 1: and we sit down for dinner after making reservations. We

644
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 1: family members in from out of town, and I'm shocked.

645
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 1: Everything is mediocre, And I know the restaurant group, the

646
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 1: rest of the restaurants are actually really good. It looks

647
00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 1: like they put in five million dollars building this place.

648
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 1: So leading up to the question, when a restaurant opens up.

649
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 1: How long does it have to kind of adjust the

650
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:09,279
Speaker 1: dials and trim the sails and get it right. My

651
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 1: wife is like, we're done with that. We don't have

652
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 1: to go back there. I'm like, I think you got

653
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 1: to give it a couple of times. You know, people

654
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:17,240
Speaker 1: will say six months. If the service is really really

655
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 1: good and the food's okay, people will give it a

656
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:21,920
Speaker 1: second chance. If the services really bad and the food

657
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 1: is okay, people won't give the restaurant a second chance. Really,

658
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 1: I think you gotta the food comes second to the service,

659
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:32,279
Speaker 1: second to the service. I think interesting and initial reactions

660
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 1: to people coming in and saying I think he sometimes

661
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 1: you could take three months, depending depending upon how far

662
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:41,880
Speaker 1: they're reaching right what kind of cuisine it is. Is

663
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 1: a real simple cuisine and they're executing it poorly? Or

664
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 1: is it real simple cuisine and the buying poor ingredients?

665
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:50,839
Speaker 1: I mean, you could if you go out a lot

666
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 1: and you're somebody like you who knows the difference. You

667
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 1: can tell the difference between a really good steak and

668
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 1: a real bad steak, and steak is the easiest piece

669
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 1: of fish or quality of the produce, and you're saying

670
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 1: here they built this restaurant's great, and they're using crumby

671
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:09,240
Speaker 1: tomatoes and they're using really poor fish, and steak quality

672
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 1: isn't good. You know that they're cutting back on the

673
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 1: most important thing. I think that's one thing that we

674
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 1: never do. You may like or not like, but we

675
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:19,320
Speaker 1: buy the best ingredients and let them speak for themselves

676
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,360
Speaker 1: because people will always be able to tell that apart.

677
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,439
Speaker 1: There's a restaurant two or three times before I write

678
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 1: it over really, so I'm two x and then you're

679
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 1: you're done. And I always noticed a favorite restaurant, the

680
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:34,319
Speaker 1: food will be really at a high level for a

681
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 1: long time, and then it starts to falter. And you

682
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 1: always wonder is this an aberrational meal or is this

683
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:41,279
Speaker 1: the beginning of the ends? Because all restaurants seem to

684
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:44,799
Speaker 1: have a natural lifespan with hand. You know, you go

685
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:46,719
Speaker 1: to Smith Lenski any day of the week and you

686
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 1: know you're gonna get a good steak, and they've been

687
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:52,880
Speaker 1: there for a million years. But that sort of longevity

688
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 1: really seems to be the exception, isn't it? In this day?

689
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:57,799
Speaker 1: And as yeah, I think one of the things is

690
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 1: not only the location and the rent, which kind of

691
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 1: squeezes things down. But I think they own their buildings,

692
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 1: so that might take them what they most places when

693
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 1: they're in trouble. Instead of buying a prime steak, that's

694
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 1: I mean, we pay twenty one dollar a pound for

695
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 1: primes like week, so what does that translate to fifty

696
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 1: dollars of steak? I think people will buy less equality

697
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 1: ingredients to make up the difference in perol, make up

698
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 1: the difference and profitability. And I think that once you

699
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 1: start doing that, the guests will notice that, especially if

700
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:29,319
Speaker 1: you go there three times a week or once a

701
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 1: month and all of a sudden you're eating the same

702
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,319
Speaker 1: thing and you know it's different. Let's say maybe it's

703
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:35,799
Speaker 1: an off night the next time you go and it's bad.

704
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:42,319
Speaker 1: That's it, all right, everybody has an off night, So yeah,

705
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:44,799
Speaker 1: it's there's one thing when it's when it's a one off,

706
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 1: then when it's really that. That's something about reviewers. They'll

707
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:49,879
Speaker 1: come in and if they do it over a two

708
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 1: week span or a month span, that's different coming in

709
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 1: on one time when the place is busy and maybe

710
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 1: just getting a bad experience. How do you how do

711
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:00,719
Speaker 1: you judge any business? You know, It's not like it's

712
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 1: a movie where it's been seen a hundred and fifty

713
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:05,919
Speaker 1: times and everyone's vetted it. You're you're having somebody make

714
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 1: the meal. You don't know what happens in the kitchen.

715
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 1: They're bad experiences, absolutely, but you have to. It's one

716
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:14,719
Speaker 1: of those things where you have to give it three

717
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 1: or four tries before you're actually or go to a

718
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:20,319
Speaker 1: couple of dinners and say, you know it, really, from

719
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 1: beginning to end is a bad experience, or from beginning

720
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:25,279
Speaker 1: to end it's a good experience. So so let's talk

721
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 1: about reviews a little bit um setting myself up to

722
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:34,319
Speaker 1: get shot. In general, I think the better reviewers and

723
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 1: let's let's include the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal,

724
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:41,400
Speaker 1: New York magazine Time Out will go at least two x.

725
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 1: But here's the bigger question. I remember back in the

726
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:48,400
Speaker 1: day a review in in a major paper, and I

727
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 1: would say the time still has this power that's at

728
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 1: that restaurant is jammed for months and then it starts

729
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,800
Speaker 1: to attend. You eate. But it's not the same sort

730
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 1: of hammer it was twenty years ago. That wouldn't Mimi

731
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:05,719
Speaker 1: Sheridan or Brian Miller or one of those big reviewers

732
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 1: and John Marini when they would come in, that would

733
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 1: make or break it. Now you take the subway and

734
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 1: there's five reviewers. Everybody's a Yelp guy. Everybody's something terrible.

735
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 1: Forget ye reviews. And at one point in time that

736
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 1: the goats was great. I think Google kinda took the power.

737
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:30,719
Speaker 1: Is looking to drive advertising centers, right, I can't say

738
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 1: something bad about somebody who could possibly advertise with you.

739
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 1: And that's what Yelp does it. You know, I guess

740
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:39,880
Speaker 1: there to me a lot of those outrageous reviews. They

741
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:42,359
Speaker 1: just trying to drive traffic to the site. Right, So

742
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 1: you get on either and those guys and they just

743
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 1: have they hammer us like to no end, and it

744
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 1: is impossible to get some bad meals. Yes, is it

745
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 1: possible that everybody there's a great job but us impossible.

746
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:55,879
Speaker 1: We wouldn't be where we are. You know who we are,

747
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 1: and with this reputation, the success speaks for hammer us.

748
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:03,080
Speaker 1: But they're trying to drive. If you went and said

749
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:07,400
Speaker 1: something bad about uh, some small Italian restaurant or some

750
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,759
Speaker 1: small Asian restaurant, would anybody care? No, But if you

751
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:13,959
Speaker 1: say something bad about towers says something good about town.

752
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 1: It drives traffic, That's what it's about. What about speaking

753
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:22,919
Speaker 1: of clicks? What about Instagram and people photographing dishes? Does

754
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:27,239
Speaker 1: how significant has that become? Does that affect presentation of

755
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:31,279
Speaker 1: people aware at of of that subsector of diners who

756
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 1: want to take everywhere? Everything is the Instagram moment? Everything,

757
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:37,279
Speaker 1: I mean a lot of some of what we do

758
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:40,759
Speaker 1: is geared towards the Instagram moment. But I always say,

759
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 1: if people will take pictures of something, that's great and

760
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:46,400
Speaker 1: Instagram and that's great. But a lot of the stuff

761
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 1: you see on Instagram is almost inedible. Right, stuff on

762
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:52,799
Speaker 1: the giant towers makes no sense. What are you gonna eat?

763
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:56,320
Speaker 1: Like something has got five thousand ingredients with cheese poured

764
00:39:56,440 --> 00:40:00,839
Speaker 1: over it that nobody nobody, So so you're you will

765
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 1: put you as on the fence with Instagram. No. I

766
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 1: like Instagram. I think for me it saves me probably

767
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 1: five six thousand galleries a day A Right, you don't

768
00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:10,400
Speaker 1: have to go on need You can look at a

769
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 1: picture of it and kind of figure out what's in it.

770
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:15,239
Speaker 1: You can pick up an idea and the description of

771
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:18,919
Speaker 1: the dishes there. I personally like Instagram. I just think

772
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:24,640
Speaker 1: that for it too, what the average person likes on

773
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:28,880
Speaker 1: Instagram doesn't really translate to what a good meal would be. Really.

774
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:31,799
Speaker 1: I was reading that too long ago that there are

775
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:35,360
Speaker 1: some specialty ice cream makers out of Brooklyn who have

776
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 1: redesigned their labels to make them more Instagram friendly. People

777
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:43,279
Speaker 1: are literally snapping photos in the frozen food aisle of

778
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:45,759
Speaker 1: your favorite I think that that's but that's one thing

779
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:48,640
Speaker 1: about the restaurant business now, there is no one path

780
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:51,800
Speaker 1: to success. Right guy can come up with something Instagram

781
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:56,759
Speaker 1: and Instagram like um, black tap. I mean Instagram made

782
00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:00,960
Speaker 1: them those those shakes and instagramming those achs and and

783
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 1: they're great. I mean, it's unbelievable. They do a great product,

784
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 1: but they were struggling in the beginning and they hooked

785
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,759
Speaker 1: onto Instagram, and Instagram helped promote their business. So when

786
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:14,319
Speaker 1: you go out to eat, tell us some restaurants you like,

787
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:15,759
Speaker 1: Where do you go in New York? Where do you

788
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:18,800
Speaker 1: go in that are not too group restaurants? Where do

789
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 1: you go in Los Angeles? Try not to go anywhere else.

790
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 1: And you know, I try to conserve as many. You know,

791
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 1: my favorite place in l A Is Republic. I don't

792
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 1: know if you've been there. It's the old Librey of bakery.

793
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 1: The food is really good. The chef is great, and

794
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:37,759
Speaker 1: it's seasonal and it's fresh, and it's non threatening. I

795
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 1: like and where people don't have to think so much

796
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:43,560
Speaker 1: when you're eating and just order something and it's the

797
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:46,320
Speaker 1: food is good, the service is good, and the ingredients

798
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 1: are really fresh and well made non threatening. To tell

799
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:53,920
Speaker 1: us about some other memorable meals you've had anywhere in

800
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:56,600
Speaker 1: the country, anywhere in the world. Well, one of the

801
00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 1: play Hong Kong is one of the dishes that we

802
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:01,080
Speaker 1: have on the tow is a snapper in the sand,

803
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:03,279
Speaker 1: and we had it in a place in Hong Kong

804
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 1: and this guy with the server was unbelievable. It had

805
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:09,759
Speaker 1: like these big fishing boots on white fishing boats and

806
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 1: we went over picked the fish out. It was like

807
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 1: dancing in the food and the dish was like unbelievable.

808
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:18,879
Speaker 1: So I went into the kitchen and there were three

809
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:21,279
Speaker 1: cooks on a walk and I just was trying to

810
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:27,839
Speaker 1: talk to him. Nobody said, I don't know, nobody ever

811
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:30,280
Speaker 1: stops here. I don't know, you look like you belong

812
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:32,279
Speaker 1: in the look belong right. You could put out a

813
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 1: chef coat and pretty much go anywhere. But people said,

814
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:37,359
Speaker 1: nobody stop, nobody stopped right into the White House if

815
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:40,279
Speaker 1: you want, and uh so they weren't really saying anything.

816
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:42,839
Speaker 1: And I went down the block. I bought a case

817
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 1: of beer, brought into the kitchen, gave each guy like

818
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:46,799
Speaker 1: four or five beers, and they told me how to

819
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:48,880
Speaker 1: make this dish. Right there. I was like, that was

820
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:53,680
Speaker 1: a great experience, cheapest acquisition cost that that's amazing. How

821
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 1: about in the United States? What other meals have you

822
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:58,840
Speaker 1: had that are memorable? You don't strike me as a

823
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:02,399
Speaker 1: gastronomic sort of no, you know, I look at food

824
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 1: and I say to myself, what what some of those

825
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 1: long meals where you go to uh those tasting dinners.

826
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:12,319
Speaker 1: I don't have the patience to sit through one of those.

827
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 1: I don't knock anybody's food food in a restaurant business

828
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:18,880
Speaker 1: on any level, from the guy who sells the halal

829
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 1: guy in the street outside to to you know, per se.

830
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:25,520
Speaker 1: It's all hard work getting people to come in, guess

831
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:27,840
Speaker 1: to buy the stuff. But for me, I don't like

832
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 1: sitting there for four hours and eating and drinking and it's,

833
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:33,680
Speaker 1: you know, seven courses paired with a wine. If I

834
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:36,360
Speaker 1: get a good one contail and a really good bottle

835
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 1: of wine with dinner, I'll always pick a wine that

836
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:41,800
Speaker 1: will go well with an appetizer and an entree, seven

837
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:44,440
Speaker 1: different wines. By by the time you're on your seventh course,

838
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 1: with the seventh point, you're either drunk or tired. Everything

839
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:50,360
Speaker 1: kind of tastes the same. And it doesn't to me,

840
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:52,600
Speaker 1: it doesn't make any sense. I was in Barcelona in

841
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 1: September and we went to this one miss three Michelin

842
00:43:56,040 --> 00:44:00,640
Speaker 1: star rated restaurant. I'm not exaggerating. When it was twenty courses.

843
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:03,880
Speaker 1: They were all tiny little things. But even still after

844
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:06,239
Speaker 1: the tenth it's like, all right, I'm good, Wait, we're

845
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:09,279
Speaker 1: only half way, and the wine just kept flowing. It

846
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:12,040
Speaker 1: was it was at Barcelona is some of the best

847
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:14,399
Speaker 1: food in the world. It was amazing. But last time

848
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:17,359
Speaker 1: we went to Japan, we went to four three star

849
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:20,839
Speaker 1: Michelin restaurants. Each one was worse than the next. Just

850
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:23,600
Speaker 1: going on to so, you know, to a sushi place,

851
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:25,279
Speaker 1: do you are you picking food out of you? Just

852
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 1: do and say to the chef, give me what you got,

853
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 1: give me what you got and you're happy with that.

854
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:32,759
Speaker 1: What do you like for sushi here in New York?

855
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:35,200
Speaker 1: We went to Nedda, but you know, I like to

856
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:38,400
Speaker 1: um sushi by Gary. He's always good man. He always

857
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 1: does a good job. Simple, it's fast, it's clean. Sushi

858
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 1: Seki on twenty three is very good. Also tell us

859
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:48,400
Speaker 1: what else? What about Italian? What do you do when

860
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 1: you want to go out for Italian and not always

861
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:52,279
Speaker 1: cooking home? You know there's something really good. Yeah, cook

862
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:54,320
Speaker 1: at home, but there's some really I live on Staten

863
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:56,799
Speaker 1: Island and some really good restaurants on Staten Island just

864
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 1: to Tian Italian American. It's a place on New Door

865
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:02,279
Speaker 1: Plane and pizza jove that the pizza is great. The

866
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:05,160
Speaker 1: Italian food is great. Two guys from Italy in a

867
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 1: small place, but they do a great job. What do

868
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:10,359
Speaker 1: you think it? Concepts like quality meets quality Italian any

869
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 1: of that run. There's some some pretty good, some good. Yeah,

870
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 1: they do some pretty good. They do a good job.

871
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:17,359
Speaker 1: I don't like knocking anybody because I get We get

872
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:19,720
Speaker 1: knocked all the time, but I know what it takes

873
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:22,239
Speaker 1: to get it done, so I always go out for

874
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:25,360
Speaker 1: the experience and what about Chinatown. You have a go

875
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:28,920
Speaker 1: to Flushing and work your way. I'm born and raised

876
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 1: in Brooklyn, and when I do go back to Brooklyn

877
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:34,279
Speaker 1: at the Seventh Avenue. Eighth Avenue in Brooklyn has a

878
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:37,400
Speaker 1: great Chinatown. So I used to go to Queens to

879
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 1: see the Mets play, but since it's so bad, I

880
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:45,600
Speaker 1: don't go out to Queens anymore. But Brooklyn has great

881
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:47,960
Speaker 1: Chinese food, and so to Staten Island. It's some really

882
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:50,839
Speaker 1: good Chinese restaurant. So I'll go to Brooklyn and when

883
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:54,160
Speaker 1: I want to get my Chinese Chinatown fixed um. And

884
00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:59,279
Speaker 1: then the last restaurant question I wanted to ask is

885
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:01,719
Speaker 1: what do you do when a dish comes out and

886
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 1: you just don't like it? Send it back? Well, if

887
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:07,200
Speaker 1: something is up in the past and it's not right,

888
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:09,239
Speaker 1: it doesn't look right at to send it right back

889
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:12,000
Speaker 1: to the cook and send it the first thing. I'll

890
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 1: send it back and then turn around and yell at

891
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:15,319
Speaker 1: the zus chef and make them to go back there

892
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 1: and make it with them. So no hesitation. I know

893
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:26,200
Speaker 1: basically are are very uh fearful. Maybe that's right. I'm

894
00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 1: with you. If something is overcooked, back it goes which

895
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 1: part of rare was confusing to you? On a steak,

896
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:34,879
Speaker 1: this is somebody else's shoe, not that I ever say

897
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:38,759
Speaker 1: that to the makes mistakes right, see this, I think

898
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:40,920
Speaker 1: I got the wrong wrong steak. I ordered it rare.

899
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:43,400
Speaker 1: This is meaning, well, can can I get a rare steak?

900
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:45,520
Speaker 1: But there are a lot of people that really seem

901
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:48,920
Speaker 1: to be hesitant to send stuff back, you mean in

902
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 1: the kitchen or as a diner, as a diner unless

903
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:55,759
Speaker 1: it's really really bad. It depends on like if we're

904
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 1: with the crew of getting people will send stuff back

905
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:01,279
Speaker 1: if it's not right. With my family, it's pretty you know,

906
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:03,840
Speaker 1: order stuff that I know is safe. Like when you

907
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:07,239
Speaker 1: go out to eat, people say, if you go, if

908
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:09,280
Speaker 1: you go somewhere, what do you want to My first

909
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:12,200
Speaker 1: instinct is always the word something safe, especially with a

910
00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:15,000
Speaker 1: big group of people, because you don't know, and like

911
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:16,719
Speaker 1: what do you mean by safe? Like just a piece

912
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:20,040
Speaker 1: of grilled chicken or nothing to not on the fancy

913
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 1: end of the menu, not on the fancy or end

914
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:24,279
Speaker 1: of the menu, so simple, and and the bread and butter,

915
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:26,279
Speaker 1: because you know it'll be done, will be a good meal,

916
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:29,239
Speaker 1: it'll be a safe experience. But if I'm going out

917
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:32,879
Speaker 1: for a dining experience, it's totally different. I'm going out

918
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:35,320
Speaker 1: going out with friends and we're hanging out, we're partying.

919
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 1: It's always a safe experience. Does does being in the

920
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:41,840
Speaker 1: business ruined that that people think? When you eat with

921
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:43,560
Speaker 1: a bunch of people, everybody's looking at you like what

922
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 1: what does he say? What? It was like, No, it's

923
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:48,080
Speaker 1: I just try to eat. Yeah, I just eat, man,

924
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:52,799
Speaker 1: I I really really enjoy eating, so and trim. How

925
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:55,279
Speaker 1: do you manage to keep the calories? Just? First, you

926
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:59,480
Speaker 1: gotta exercise. You gotta make smart decisions about what to eat,

927
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 1: when to eat. When we would work on dishes or

928
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:04,759
Speaker 1: work on the menus or opening too Chicago very soon,

929
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:07,799
Speaker 1: so that's coming in September, and right now that we're

930
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:11,680
Speaker 1: working on dishes, so well, I would take four or

931
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:14,319
Speaker 1: five bites, six bytes, seven bites, eat half the dish,

932
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:17,160
Speaker 1: and I only now it's one or two bites, just

933
00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:19,839
Speaker 1: to get tested at how it's doing to the next one.

934
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:23,600
Speaker 1: It's really about how many calories you consume in a day.

935
00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 1: Let's um, that's really quite interesting. Let's let's jump to

936
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:30,439
Speaker 1: our favorite questions. I want to see, uh see how

937
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:34,160
Speaker 1: how you run down these relative to to what this

938
00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:36,520
Speaker 1: is the speed round? Absolutely, So, what do you think

939
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:39,480
Speaker 1: is the most important important thing that people don't know

940
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:42,680
Speaker 1: about your background? Important thing that they don't know about

941
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:46,719
Speaker 1: my background? It's the loaded question that you know. I um,

942
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:49,560
Speaker 1: I just a regular guy, born and raised in Brooklyn

943
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:52,319
Speaker 1: and just worked my way up and worked hard that

944
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:54,960
Speaker 1: I think that when people see success or you're working

945
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 1: in a restaurant, always got this, always does that, and

946
00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:02,000
Speaker 1: no one gets anywhere without working hard and paying your dues.

947
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 1: And I definitely paid my dues over and over, overpaid

948
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:07,319
Speaker 1: my dues. I'm waiting for that check to come back

949
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:10,360
Speaker 1: to the refund um. Who was some of your early mentors.

950
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:12,360
Speaker 1: You mentioned the one chef that took a liking to

951
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:14,360
Speaker 1: you when you were young. Yeah, I don't know if

952
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:16,520
Speaker 1: he's still alive. It was an old Sicilian guy. But

953
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 1: I worked in a restaurant called The Scene many years ago.

954
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:24,239
Speaker 1: Chef there was chef named Joan ev Pik, an old

955
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:26,880
Speaker 1: French guy who was really back in the day that

956
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:29,480
Speaker 1: was one of the few four star restaurants in New

957
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 1: York from the New York Times and when it really

958
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:35,120
Speaker 1: really was something and he was a strict disciplinarian. He

959
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:38,880
Speaker 1: was the guy who really talked made me understand what

960
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:42,400
Speaker 1: running the kitchen was and how everyone should look and

961
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:46,359
Speaker 1: behave and perform. And it was all about dressing right,

962
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:49,680
Speaker 1: looking right, and where the white hat and the neckerchief

963
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:51,920
Speaker 1: and stand there and just that was what the day is.

964
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:54,200
Speaker 1: Where you got screamed at from the minute you opened

965
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:56,680
Speaker 1: the door then you went home. Man, you were just

966
00:49:56,760 --> 00:50:01,360
Speaker 1: like hammered every minute of every day. And um, what

967
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:04,839
Speaker 1: chefs influenced your approach to cooking? Who did you who

968
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:10,000
Speaker 1: did you think about? Who affected In the early eighties

969
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:13,480
Speaker 1: I worked with when there was a restaurant hotel on

970
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 1: the west on the east side, the Westbury Hotel. It

971
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:21,279
Speaker 1: was a restaurant called a Polo and Roger Verge was

972
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:24,279
Speaker 1: the consulting chef and Daniel Bleu and crew came from

973
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:27,279
Speaker 1: Leon and those guys with those that team was one

974
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 1: of the really first people who exposed me to a

975
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:34,600
Speaker 1: different world of how French food was and the seasonality

976
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 1: of it. And back in French restaurants were always like

977
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:39,520
Speaker 1: this is it, this is these are the dishes duck

978
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:41,560
Speaker 1: all orange in the middle of the summer, in the

979
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:44,880
Speaker 1: middle of the winter. They were more seasonal food and

980
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 1: really taking a farm approach way way back when. I

981
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:52,960
Speaker 1: don't want to transmitted in the eighties though I was

982
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:55,560
Speaker 1: only like two years old. Though when so you mentioned

983
00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:58,480
Speaker 1: you don't have time to read books, You're so busy

984
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:01,080
Speaker 1: at the restaurants. So what do you do for fun?

985
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:03,480
Speaker 1: What do you do to to keep enter? Now it's

986
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:04,920
Speaker 1: the summer, so I like to hang out in the

987
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:07,440
Speaker 1: backyard and have a nice glass of wine and go

988
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:10,200
Speaker 1: into pool. And but I like enjoy playing with my

989
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:12,720
Speaker 1: kids and do a lot of charity work and helping

990
00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:15,959
Speaker 1: others really gives me a good sense. And we taw

991
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:18,239
Speaker 1: Group and tow Cares that were involved in a lot

992
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:23,640
Speaker 1: of different charities. How Cares that's the charity and what

993
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:25,600
Speaker 1: sort of what sort of groups do you guys like

994
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:29,760
Speaker 1: to work with? We think in uh, the breast cancer

995
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:33,560
Speaker 1: research and breast cancer walks, we do a lot of that. Um.

996
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:37,200
Speaker 1: I'm actually my charity and the part of TOW Cares.

997
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:39,600
Speaker 1: I'm on the chairman of the board of Eating two,

998
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:42,520
Speaker 1: which is a school and a facility for people on

999
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:46,080
Speaker 1: the autism spectrum. So I do that work and we

1000
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:48,800
Speaker 1: have another charity called pop Earth is works with people

1001
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:51,200
Speaker 1: on the autism spectrum, so I do a lot of

1002
00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:55,520
Speaker 1: that work. And Um, since you joined the restaurant industry,

1003
00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:57,840
Speaker 1: what has changed and is this for the better or

1004
00:51:57,920 --> 00:52:01,200
Speaker 1: for the worst. Every single thing has changed, like now

1005
00:52:01,239 --> 00:52:03,239
Speaker 1: getting rid of plastic straws. I think a lot of

1006
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:06,360
Speaker 1: it is for the better, sure, especially the way employees

1007
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:08,840
Speaker 1: were treated. I think back in the day, you could,

1008
00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:13,279
Speaker 1: you know, yell at, smacked, hit, and all of it

1009
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:15,560
Speaker 1: was wrong. It's almost like, you know, the trail of

1010
00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:19,160
Speaker 1: an abusive parent. You abuse the kid, the kid grows

1011
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:21,160
Speaker 1: up to be an abusive parent, and that was really

1012
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:26,759
Speaker 1: what was learned, yelling and screaming. Yeah, I think it

1013
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 1: definitely had to be broken. It better today the restaurant

1014
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:33,000
Speaker 1: industry has had a little bit of its own meat too. Movie. Yeah,

1015
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:36,160
Speaker 1: I think it's way way better today. People will respect

1016
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:39,400
Speaker 1: each other respect. I hate to use that term diversity,

1017
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:42,719
Speaker 1: but women in the workplace and just different people in

1018
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:45,120
Speaker 1: the workplace, and the way you treat people and treat

1019
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:48,040
Speaker 1: people with respect and treat yourself with respect so you

1020
00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:51,879
Speaker 1: can treat other people with respect makes a lot of sense. Um,

1021
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:54,239
Speaker 1: what is it that has you most excited about the

1022
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:59,399
Speaker 1: industry today. It's dynamic, it's ever changing. Maybe I said

1023
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:01,439
Speaker 1: it a couple of times, but the way to make

1024
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:04,520
Speaker 1: money and the way to get your point across and

1025
00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:08,319
Speaker 1: get your dish across is changed so much. And it's

1026
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:11,320
Speaker 1: just you could come up with something that's the greatgest

1027
00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:14,799
Speaker 1: boobon and make a fortune. And people who have the

1028
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:18,000
Speaker 1: food truck revolution I think changed the way a lot

1029
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:20,200
Speaker 1: of people think about restaurants that you can go to

1030
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:22,600
Speaker 1: a truck and have a great meal. You can go

1031
00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:24,960
Speaker 1: down the road and it's everywhere. Right. You go to

1032
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 1: Madison Square Garden and the food stands are great. You

1033
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:30,240
Speaker 1: go to a huge improvement from what it was, Yankee

1034
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:33,080
Speaker 1: Stadium or City Field. I don't know if anybody goes

1035
00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:35,360
Speaker 1: to City Feilding. I love them, but it may be

1036
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:39,960
Speaker 1: the best food of all the major You can go

1037
00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:43,200
Speaker 1: and um where we went to Fenway Park a couple

1038
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:45,319
Speaker 1: of years ago and the steakhouse and there was great.

1039
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:48,000
Speaker 1: It was a great experience. And those are the different

1040
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:51,640
Speaker 1: things where you can get great meals anywhere now, not

1041
00:53:51,640 --> 00:53:54,120
Speaker 1: not just a high end, not just a high end restaurant.

1042
00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:56,719
Speaker 1: Tell us about a time you failed and what you

1043
00:53:56,840 --> 00:54:00,880
Speaker 1: learned from the experience felt I failed, like you know,

1044
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:03,319
Speaker 1: as a restaurants we learned. You know, we had a

1045
00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:06,200
Speaker 1: restaurant up on the Upper east Side Arlington Club that

1046
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:10,080
Speaker 1: the food was great, but it was just bad location.

1047
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:12,839
Speaker 1: That was We learned a lot to really be more

1048
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:18,200
Speaker 1: careful about the locations that we picked and just sometimes

1049
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:20,600
Speaker 1: you have to know when to get out right. I

1050
00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:24,160
Speaker 1: think that we let that. That's one of the most

1051
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:28,640
Speaker 1: important things. If you listen to any business as risk right.

1052
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:31,440
Speaker 1: So something's work, something's don't work. But if it's not working,

1053
00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:34,719
Speaker 1: you've tried everything, let it go and move on. What

1054
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:36,640
Speaker 1: why do you say it was a bad location. I

1055
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:40,720
Speaker 1: just reminded. I'm reminded of the Seinfeld with the black

1056
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:44,600
Speaker 1: Hole restaurant that always died and never never seen that.

1057
00:54:44,840 --> 00:54:46,839
Speaker 1: For some reason, it just happens that way. I don't

1058
00:54:46,840 --> 00:54:49,520
Speaker 1: know why that that part of it's in front of

1059
00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:51,879
Speaker 1: a bus stop. It was like all crazy little things

1060
00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:55,560
Speaker 1: that was successful, and we took it thinking that we

1061
00:54:55,600 --> 00:54:57,960
Speaker 1: could make it work. And listen, we had a great

1062
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:01,200
Speaker 1: partners and great food and just didn't go. Didn't go.

1063
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:04,520
Speaker 1: So someone's a millennial and wants to become a chef

1064
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:08,040
Speaker 1: or or enter the restaurant business. What sort of advice

1065
00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:10,719
Speaker 1: would you give? It takes time. They all think it's

1066
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:14,200
Speaker 1: I mean, everybody wants instant gratification. And I went to school,

1067
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Speaker 1: I worked for this chef to a year. I worked

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00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:17,880
Speaker 1: for that chef for a year. I'm ready to be

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00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:22,160
Speaker 1: a chef, just not the case. It's a long process.

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Speaker 1: And our final question, what is it that you know

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00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:28,960
Speaker 1: about the restaurant business today that you wish you knew

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00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:35,680
Speaker 1: years ago. It's very difficult to make money. It's very difficult. Yeah,

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00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:41,319
Speaker 1: I think that um everyone the perception of people. I

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00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:43,880
Speaker 1: didn't actually do it for the money. I did it

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00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:45,799
Speaker 1: because I just loved it and wanted to do it.

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00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:48,640
Speaker 1: I didn't take the approach of hey, I'm gonna do

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00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:50,400
Speaker 1: this and I'm gonna make a million dollars and make

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00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:52,880
Speaker 1: five million dollars, gonna make ten. I just did it

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00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:57,399
Speaker 1: because it's what I wanted to do. And I took

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00:55:57,440 --> 00:56:00,400
Speaker 1: that approach of going in and just working and working working,

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00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:03,279
Speaker 1: figure that if I could just work hard, the opportunities

1082
00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:06,480
Speaker 1: will come. And I don't know, I would have studied

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00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:08,680
Speaker 1: harder in school though, that's what I would have paid

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00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:12,439
Speaker 1: it to more attention in college. Very very good. UH,

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00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:15,239
Speaker 1: this has been fascinating stuff. We have been speaking with

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00:56:15,360 --> 00:56:19,920
Speaker 1: Ralph Scamadela. He is chef and partner at the Toe Group,

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00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:24,960
Speaker 1: which runs UH, the most highest grossing restaurant in America,

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00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:28,840
Speaker 1: as well as three of the ten top grossing independent

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00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:32,439
Speaker 1: restaurants and a slew of other highly regarded and well

1090
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:36,239
Speaker 1: reviewed restaurants. If you enjoy this conversation, be sure and

1091
00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:41,120
Speaker 1: look up an intro Down an Inch on Apple iTunes, Stitcher, overcast,

1092
00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:45,200
Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot com wherever final podcasts are sold, and you

1093
00:56:45,200 --> 00:56:50,040
Speaker 1: could see the rest of our two hundred previous such conversations.

1094
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:54,359
Speaker 1: We love your comments, feedback and suggestions right to us

1095
00:56:54,440 --> 00:56:58,359
Speaker 1: at m IB podcast at Bloomberg dot net. I would

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00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:00,640
Speaker 1: be remiss if I did not thank the staff that

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00:57:00,680 --> 00:57:04,959
Speaker 1: helps put together these conversations each week. Attica val Bron

1098
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:09,640
Speaker 1: is our project manager, Medina Parwana is our producer, Slash

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00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:13,759
Speaker 1: audio engineer. Taylor Riggs is our booker. Michael Batnick is

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00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:17,280
Speaker 1: our head of research. I'm Barry Ritults. You've been listening

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00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:19,880
Speaker 1: to Masters in Business from Bloomberg Radio