Speaker 1: Yes, we can do it.
Speaker 2: Okay, let's go.
Speaker 3: Let's go. Holded.
Speaker 4: He I'm blindfolded once, I'm blindfolded twice, and I'm blindfolded
Speaker 4: a third time.
Speaker 5: There's no mirror behind us, there's no microphones in our ears,
Speaker 5: because we did.
Speaker 3: Not prepare this, kind.
Speaker 5: Of like you might have seen us doing our show, Scott.
Speaker 5: Do you have any random item nearby?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 5: He hold it up so that so that I can
Speaker 5: see everyone at home, all right, and look imagine that?
Speaker 2: Okay, perfect, Okay.
Speaker 4: Okay, why am I seeing? Is this like a something
Speaker 4: you can write with?
Speaker 1: Maybe? Okay? And it smells kind of good? Is this
Speaker 1: a sharpie if you're weird like I am? Yes, America.
Speaker 2: Today, we have a really special treat for you all.
Speaker 2: The cosmic Romantics. The Cosmic Romantics have been named quote
Speaker 2: the Lucy and Ricky of magic, and they first came
Speaker 2: on my radar watching an episode of Penn and Tower's
Speaker 2: fool Us where they fooled Penn and Tower. In this episode,
Speaker 2: I talked to Elizabeth Messick and Eric Thurston about how
Speaker 2: they started their careers, how they balance a work life
Speaker 2: and a romantic relationship, Elizabeth's own journey with mental health,
Speaker 2: and we also get a sneak peak of Eric's upcoming
Speaker 2: book about magic archetypes. In this episode, we also even
Speaker 2: do some magic for each other. This was a really
Speaker 2: fun episode and I really adore these two. So let's
Speaker 2: get into it. I bring you the Cosmic Romantics, the
Speaker 2: cosmic Romantics, who finally got you guys on the show. Yes,
Speaker 2: it's been a journey. It's been a journey. Right when
Speaker 2: we were about to get you on, I broke my rib.
Speaker 2: That was a mess.
Speaker 4: Are you okay?
Speaker 2: I am all healed now, all here now, But we've
Speaker 2: been through some hurdles. But I just want to say
Speaker 2: I'm so excited to finally get you on the show.
Speaker 2: I adure both of you so much.
Speaker 3: We adore you now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Eric Thurston, you are so interesting. You came from
Speaker 2: Chicago with an improv sketch comedy background. Is that right?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Exactly. I was.
Speaker 1: Well.
Speaker 5: I grew up in the Chicago area and in college
Speaker 5: all I cared about.
Speaker 3: And did was improvment scotch.
Speaker 5: I mostly did not pay attention to classes, and then
Speaker 5: after college moved Chicago with some of my friends and
Speaker 5: spent three years there. I don't know exactly what I
Speaker 5: was trying to do I guess get on us an
Speaker 5: l or something, but that or I don't even know
Speaker 5: if that was on my radar, but it's all I
Speaker 5: was really caring about at the time.
Speaker 2: You loved it. You were intrinsically motivated. You know. It's
Speaker 2: funny because I think a lot of people feel like
Speaker 2: I need to like justify why they do what they do,
Speaker 2: and like, I've just taken up magic as a hobby
Speaker 2: and I have no justification for it whatsoever other than
Speaker 2: it brings me and others July. So you know, I
Speaker 2: love that. I love that you that's was kind of
Speaker 2: like your motivation for getting to that.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I guess you're right. There does need to be
Speaker 5: a financial kind of reason behind it. I think I
Speaker 5: got into improv in the first place. Well, I saw
Speaker 5: a show at Second City in Chicago when I was
Speaker 5: a kid, and I thought that was amazing, and I
Speaker 5: was like, oh, I want to do that. But also
Speaker 5: I think it was a way to get over a
Speaker 5: little bit of like stage fright and shyness by doing improv,
Speaker 5: which should be like the scariest thing in the world.
Speaker 5: But I did it so much that it no longer
Speaker 5: was scary anymore. In fact, something I felt more comfortable
Speaker 5: doing with than I guess hanging out with friends.
Speaker 2: You know, did you have social anxiety ever in your
Speaker 2: life or stage fright?
Speaker 5: So yeah, I'd say I've always had some social anxiety
Speaker 5: and then stage fright.
Speaker 3: I don't know anymore if I did.
Speaker 5: I mean I still get a little scared performing, but
Speaker 5: probably much less than most other people.
Speaker 2: I'm going to pivot a second to both of you.
Speaker 2: Were you both oddballs in elementary school?
Speaker 4: Oh? Yeah, yeah, sure it was sure.
Speaker 1: It was Yeah.
Speaker 4: All of my friends from you know school, They're like, yeah,
Speaker 4: that makes sense. You're a magician.
Speaker 2: I love that. Okay, So when did you get interested
Speaker 2: in magic?
Speaker 3: Then?
Speaker 5: For me, well, my dad was kind of magic obsessed,
Speaker 5: so he forced it on me and my brother and
Speaker 5: my mom.
Speaker 3: We did a little family thing.
Speaker 5: But I actually got away from it because it was
Speaker 5: I found it to be like annoying. I got back
Speaker 5: into it maybe seven years ago, hare in La, partially
Speaker 5: because of the Magic Castle, partially because a friend of
Speaker 5: mine from Chicago was like, Hey, we should do a
Speaker 5: show together. And at first I was like no, And
Speaker 5: then I thought about it, and I thought of a
Speaker 5: way to make it funny, to make us into characters.
Speaker 5: And then I was like, Okay, yeah, maybe I do
Speaker 5: want to get back into magic.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 5: Screenwriting's not really working out so well, so might as
Speaker 5: well try this again.
Speaker 2: Oh well boy, and then we'll get to this fateful
Speaker 2: meeting with Elizabeth. But Elizabeth, first, tell me a little
Speaker 2: bit about how long have you been interested in magic?
Speaker 4: Ever since I was nine years old. My brothers were
Speaker 4: born when I was about eight and a half, and
Speaker 4: I just felt very lonely, especially because we would move
Speaker 4: a lot when I was a kid, so I didn't
Speaker 4: have many friends other than cousins, and so I felt
Speaker 4: really I was also socially awkward because we were never
Speaker 4: really in one place for a long time, so I
Speaker 4: would get anxiety going to school. I would cry, you know,
Speaker 4: before going to school because I felt like I didn't
Speaker 4: have any friends. But I always felt more myself on
Speaker 4: stage ever since I was three years old. So when
Speaker 4: my brothers were born, I just watched the show called
Speaker 4: The Mass Magician, which now I know is not a
Speaker 4: good show for magicians, but it did inspire me to
Speaker 4: learn magic, and it was a way for me to
Speaker 4: connect with people automatically, you know. And I ended up
Speaker 4: quitting magic at the age of fourteen because it was
Speaker 4: not considered a girls thing.
Speaker 2: I didn't have still not really.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I didn't have anyone to look up to. I
Speaker 4: didn't know there was a community, so I just stuck
Speaker 4: with music and dance. And then it wasn't until I
Speaker 4: was twenty four when I came to the Magic Castle
Speaker 4: for the first time and I saw a couple of
Speaker 4: pictures of women magicians. I immediately got the bug again,
Speaker 4: or I guess the bug never left. It was just
Speaker 4: kind of dormant. It's called catching the magic bug or
Speaker 4: getting bitten by the bug. And I just started moving
Speaker 4: forward ever since then. And before that, I was doing
Speaker 4: a lot of music. I was in ten different bands.
Speaker 4: I still have an album that's coming out from my band,
Speaker 4: Golden Afternoon, that I ended up putting on hold to
Speaker 4: pursue Magic because I didn't have the money to produce
Speaker 4: the album and pursue Magic. So it's that's currently dormant,
Speaker 4: but I will release the album at some.
Speaker 2: Point, well, we all hope, so thank you. We're eagerly
Speaker 2: waiting for it. So you're you're you're obviously you have
Speaker 2: this performer bone in your body Eric. Eric does too,
Speaker 2: He's just a little more understated with the performer Bone.
Speaker 2: He's like, yeah, yeah, and both of your energies together
Speaker 2: is really beautiful to behold. It's it's it's fun and
Speaker 2: beautiful to behold, as my dad and I did in
Speaker 2: Santa Monica at one of your performances. Yeah. So, okay,
Speaker 2: where did you guys meet?
Speaker 5: We were well, we were both you know, magicians in LA,
Speaker 5: just kind of starting, and we were both in professional careers.
Speaker 4: We were both in duos, and we were both Magic
Speaker 4: Castle members. So the community, the magic community in LA
Speaker 4: is pretty small. So his duo hosted a show at
Speaker 4: a place called the Three Clubs, right, yeah, in Hollywood,
Speaker 4: and they had found out about my duo and I'll
Speaker 4: let you take it from here.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they performed at our show.
Speaker 5: It was really fun, and then soon after that they
Speaker 5: invited us to perform at their show. We were both
Speaker 5: hosting monthly magic variety shows in LA.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so random, and this was back in March of
Speaker 4: twenty eighteen.
Speaker 1: But I feel like both of our shows were pretty popular.
Speaker 3: So they were Yeah, they were both really good. I think.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we were able to pay the magician as well.
Speaker 4: Mine was at the Edison in downtown.
Speaker 5: We didn't pay our medicians, but we did, but we
Speaker 5: did give good footage in a great house.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, they were both successful, wonderful.
Speaker 2: Well, it's not like you guys got paid billions of
Speaker 2: dollars right to do that.
Speaker 3: Now, well, my goal was to break even on our show.
Speaker 3: I think you guys made some money.
Speaker 4: We made some money. At the time, I had multiple jobs,
Speaker 4: and I wanted to make sure that the magicians were
Speaker 4: also paid well.
Speaker 1: So I now know.
Speaker 4: That I should have been paid more as a producer
Speaker 4: and all of this stuff, but I didn't know.
Speaker 1: At the time. So I think at that time I.
Speaker 4: Had like five jobs, but it was just a once
Speaker 4: a month thing. I wanted to make sure that we
Speaker 4: had something fun.
Speaker 5: So that so we kind of became acquainted with each
Speaker 5: other's work that way, but we were still just friends.
Speaker 3: And then it was after.
Speaker 5: COVID and at the end of twenty twenty one.
Speaker 4: He's making a story so boring, So.
Speaker 3: I just want to make sure all the facts are right.
Speaker 2: So my actually correct.
Speaker 5: Yes, Look I woke up five minutes ago, okay, so
Speaker 5: I'm just still kind of warming up for the day
Speaker 5: and I.
Speaker 4: Just came from psychiatry and I have therapy later.
Speaker 3: This is a very psychologist talk.
Speaker 2: We'll talk about that. We'll talk about that. We'll talk
Speaker 2: about that.
Speaker 4: So my dud was a tiki duo. His was like
Speaker 4: a comedy duo. And it was twenty twenty when Eric
Speaker 4: started doing his thirst in videos. They were like thirst
Speaker 4: trap juggling videos.
Speaker 3: I forgot this was part of the story.
Speaker 1: Yes, and this.
Speaker 4: Is very important, And I ended up developing a crush
Speaker 4: on him because he was this like hot juggler guy
Speaker 4: that I you know, he thought it was funny all
Speaker 4: these girls started coming out of the woodwork and just
Speaker 4: like messaging him on Instagram and now you can from
Speaker 4: November twenty twenty one.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
Speaker 5: I reached out to her about just doing a show
Speaker 5: together at the Castle, and then I think she thought
Speaker 5: it was an overture towards her. But I reached out
Speaker 5: because she was in this relationship that I thought was
Speaker 5: like steady, so I didn't think it would be weird
Speaker 5: for me asking to a show with her. But a
Speaker 5: few weeks later she's like, I'm single, and I'm like, okay.
Speaker 4: He didn't realize that I tried to break up with
Speaker 4: him in October and then yeah, so I already had
Speaker 4: a crush on him, and I'm like, the universe is
Speaker 4: like calling me and it's telling me to go with Eric.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: So she expressed her feelings towards me, but I was
Speaker 5: not ready to hear that. So but a month or
Speaker 5: two later then I came back and I was like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 5: this this seems like a good fit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're You're so great. You're the type of woman
Speaker 2: that is just so great for a lot of guys
Speaker 2: who maybe definitely Eric, but also other like more introverted
Speaker 2: guys who don't love making the first move always because
Speaker 2: they don't like to, they don't want to like creep
Speaker 2: out a woman, you know. So and you you're just
Speaker 2: very like you strike me as very extroverted and like assertive, assertive.
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's wonderful. Okay, so now you both are
Speaker 2: professional magicians. Elizabeth is on the board of trustees at
Speaker 2: the Academy of Magical Arts or aka the Magic Castle,
Speaker 2: which we're just talking about. First of all, that's that's
Speaker 2: amazing how many women have been on the board of
Speaker 2: trustees in the history of the Magic Castle. Can't be
Speaker 2: a lot.
Speaker 4: Oh boy, I'm going to maybe be I'm going to
Speaker 4: maybe say five or six.
Speaker 1: But I'm not inten.
Speaker 2: Percentage full percentage.
Speaker 4: Oh gosh, tiny percent maybe three percent or something like that.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I should look into those numbers.
Speaker 4: But I do know that I am the youngest and
Speaker 4: I'm the youngest to ever be on the board of
Speaker 4: trustees historically.
Speaker 3: Wow, it's pretty cool.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 3: Cool Monil.
Speaker 4: Yeah, wait, how old are you?
Speaker 2: I have no conception.
Speaker 1: Oh I'm thirty three?
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, because you're you kind of you have this
Speaker 2: like kind of like vintage right thing. It's like it
Speaker 2: could be a very wide range of people.
Speaker 1: Have no idea, how well, no idea.
Speaker 2: No idea.
Speaker 5: No.
Speaker 2: If you if you ask me guess I would my
Speaker 2: range would be twenty to sixty five.
Speaker 1: Oh totally No.
Speaker 4: I identify as a seventy five year old man and
Speaker 4: a nine year old girl.
Speaker 1: I love that.
Speaker 2: I love that. I love that for you, for you,
Speaker 2: love that for you. Okay, so that that's huge. I
Speaker 2: do want to talk about psychology for a moment. Where
Speaker 2: do you bring in you? Will you do? Obviously watching
Speaker 2: your show bring in psychology a lot now, personally, I'm
Speaker 2: obsessed with mentalism, the sub branch of psychology, of the
Speaker 2: sub branch of magic that combined psychology with magic. But
Speaker 2: you do it all right, You're like a variety act.
Speaker 2: What percentage of your work do you think you bring
Speaker 2: in psychology?
Speaker 4: I mean, I think one hundred percent at least for me,
Speaker 4: because I am addicted to psychology. You know, I'm addicted
Speaker 4: to mental health. And for me, it's it's kind of
Speaker 4: a healing journey for me to perform magic. So it's
Speaker 4: not even necessarily for the audience, but it's more for
Speaker 4: my inner child, healing my inner child.
Speaker 2: And I think, wait, wait, like YOUSU said something that
Speaker 2: was unbelievably funny and you didn't even realize it. You said, quote,
Speaker 2: I'm addicted to mental health. I feel like that that
Speaker 2: one sentence sums up your paradoxical personality, which I've observed.
Speaker 1: That's hilarious.
Speaker 2: You know, I feel like Elizabeth doesn't go into anything
Speaker 2: half asked.
Speaker 3: Is that a percent true, Scott? Yeah?
Speaker 4: But then I feel like everything I do is half
Speaker 4: asked because I want to do everything, So I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you're right, it's all paradoxical.
Speaker 4: But so it's all about healing my inner child and
Speaker 4: hoping that the audience can kind of connect with that.
Speaker 4: If you're more vulnerable on stage, the audience tends to
Speaker 4: connect with you more. I don't know about Eric, though.
Speaker 4: How do you feel do you put any sort of
Speaker 4: psychology into Yeah?
Speaker 5: Well, number one, I mean, look, there's misdirection. I feel
Speaker 5: like the scripting of everything, there's a psychology too. I
Speaker 5: think magicians are even more tuned in than other entertainers
Speaker 5: in like how is the audience perceiving everything? And so
Speaker 5: the order of information I give them, the way I
Speaker 5: give it to them. It all has to be like
Speaker 5: so thoroughly thought out and constructed. But again, I don't
Speaker 5: think of it as psychologists think of it as magic,
Speaker 5: but I think it's it's in there.
Speaker 2: But you're interested. You are you are interested in mentalism
Speaker 2: and some things taken straight from the you know, mental
Speaker 2: the history of mentalism, some of the traditional stuff. You
Speaker 2: guys have this amazing telepathy thing that.
Speaker 1: You do, there's the psychology of that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, trying to pick the perfect person, unless did you
Speaker 4: already talk about this when I was gone for two minutes?
Speaker 5: Trying to pick the perfect, answered a lot of other
Speaker 5: life's greatest questions, but great.
Speaker 2: We actually saw the meaning of existence while.
Speaker 3: You were no time to rehash it, though, I'm afraid.
Speaker 2: Oh damn well, too short, so away.
Speaker 4: I Sometimes it depends on the mood I'm into. But
Speaker 4: sometimes I'm like, I want to only pick nice people,
Speaker 4: and I'll literally go to the audience and say, are
Speaker 4: you nice or mean?
Speaker 1: Depending on my mood. But mainly, I think.
Speaker 4: It's pretty easy to tell when there's a good audience
Speaker 4: member just based on their cadence, based on their smile,
Speaker 4: stuff like that. So I think it's important to be
Speaker 4: able to tell which people would want to come up
Speaker 4: on stage. And I recently took a clowning workshop to
Speaker 4: understand how to empathize with the audience more and how
Speaker 4: to get volunteers, and how to have the audience immediately
Speaker 4: like you within the first second, because that's very important.
Speaker 5: And then going back to this telep with the idea
Speaker 5: you know we're doing, I think you're from this act
Speaker 5: we call it second Sight, where Elizabeth is blindfolded and
Speaker 5: I go out into the audience holding up objects. Thank you.
Speaker 5: You know, everything in our show is kind of like
Speaker 5: fun funny. We don't take it too seriously the way
Speaker 5: that some monthalists do, but still I think there's a
Speaker 5: little bit of maybe the way Elizabeth might milk a
Speaker 5: moment in her interaction as she like has this telepathic thought.
Speaker 3: Where you know, we're magicians, and so there's some trickery
Speaker 3: involved in this, but it's still a little bit of
Speaker 3: play acting as if it's real, as if she's reading
Speaker 3: the sound of their voice or.
Speaker 4: When in reality, I'm actually trying to sometimes just figure
Speaker 4: out what it is, and so I need some time
Speaker 4: to think about it.
Speaker 1: So I'll act as if like.
Speaker 4: I'm seeing a vision, but I'm like, okay, I need
Speaker 4: is this correct or is this correct? And so I'll
Speaker 4: ask certain questions to kind of guide the audience member
Speaker 4: to what it is. So, for example, I know it's something.
Speaker 5: It's all very cryptic because yeah, we can't exactly say
Speaker 5: what it is that we're doing.
Speaker 4: But an example is this, I know that it's something
Speaker 4: to do with the mouth. I know it's like a
Speaker 4: mint or a toothbrush or something like that. So I'm like, okay,
Speaker 4: you have good oral hygiene, yes, And they're like yes.
Speaker 4: If they're either like excited about it. Okay, that means
Speaker 4: I'm in the right on the right track. But if
Speaker 4: they're like yeah, like okay, I don't think it is
Speaker 4: something to do with her mouth, if you know. So
Speaker 4: it's little things like that, hearing the cadence of people's
Speaker 4: voices because I'm blindfolded too.
Speaker 2: I know. And sometimes you you know you're fishing in,
Speaker 2: but sometimes you hit jackpot and then and then you know,
Speaker 2: you just take a risk. Don't you have to be
Speaker 2: bold in what you do?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was at I was at one of these
Speaker 2: event events where you're like keys and you're like, I
Speaker 2: bet it's an Audie, you know, and she's like yes,
Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, I wonder what the probabilities
Speaker 2: are that there's a probably there's probably at least a
Speaker 2: one percent chance she was going to be wrong there,
Speaker 2: and she just went for it. I don't know, and
Speaker 2: you don't have the verifire just confirm that. But I
Speaker 2: feel like you have to be bold with what you do.
Speaker 4: You do have to be very bold, and you have
Speaker 4: to know how to just roll with the punches if
Speaker 4: you get something wrong, just move on. And I think
Speaker 4: that's the that's the most important thing about magic, I
Speaker 4: think is knowing how to just move on.
Speaker 2: It's okay, everything not just magic. It seems like being
Speaker 2: able to handle rejection is just so huge with whatever
Speaker 2: your feeling. But you guys get a chance to really
Speaker 2: overcome that in a way that a lot of humans
Speaker 2: don't get a chance to overcome that.
Speaker 5: I think absolutely, And when something goes wrong in magic,
Speaker 5: it is, I would argue, worse than almost any other
Speaker 5: art form, you know, like a musician messing up a
Speaker 5: note or a comedian having a joke bomb. When a
Speaker 5: trick fails, it's like you've failed on every level. You've
Speaker 5: revealed a trick to the audience, maybe you've failed the
Speaker 5: art of magic. It's tough, but still it is like
Speaker 5: anything else. You still have to just be like, all right,
Speaker 5: well that sucks, but here's another one.
Speaker 2: So true.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's important to have the things you're really really,
Speaker 4: really confident in the first trick and the last trick
Speaker 4: because everything in the middle that can be more experimental
Speaker 4: and if you, you know, mess up, they'll forget.
Speaker 2: Definitely. Elizabeth, you said that you're going to your therapist
Speaker 2: or today or you already came from with one of
Speaker 2: the two I.
Speaker 4: Came from my psychiatrists and I'm going to my therapist.
Speaker 2: Gotcha. So you're loading you're loading up, you're loading up
Speaker 2: on help from healing, mental healing, we'll call it. So,
Speaker 2: how has to the extent to what you're comfortable talking
Speaker 2: about your own mental health struggles? Of course with everything
Speaker 2: it's today, you know the extent to what you're comfortable
Speaker 2: answering my questions? But how how has that journey coalesced
Speaker 2: with your magic journey if at all? Yeah? Is there
Speaker 2: any connect interesting connection?
Speaker 5: There?
Speaker 1: Oh? Absolutely?
Speaker 4: So. I'm diagnosed with ADHD, c PTSD depression generalized anxiety disorder,
Speaker 4: and I also believe I have dyslexia.
Speaker 1: But that's a.
Speaker 4: Whole other journey that I'm going on, and I think
Speaker 4: it's really important because with my ADHD, it's it's really
Speaker 4: really hard to focus on one thing, which is why
Speaker 4: our show and especially my performance is very manic, because
Speaker 4: it really depends on my mood. Like I said, how
Speaker 4: I pick an audience member and my manager always likes
Speaker 4: watching us because my mood changes every time and he's like, Okay,
Speaker 4: you're more in like a badass mood or like you
Speaker 4: seem pissed off or you're really happy, and so just
Speaker 4: it's important to help with regulating my feelings. We get
Speaker 4: really overwhelmed, and so I take a wellbutrine in so
Speaker 4: loft and that's helpful with my depression, anxiety and a
Speaker 4: little bit of my ADHD. I used to wake up
Speaker 4: every morning so depressed. I mean, am I allowed to
Speaker 4: talk about like dark things on this podcast? Oh?
Speaker 2: Absolutely, we encourage it.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I'm such an open book. But yeah, I
Speaker 4: had really bad suicidal idea like it.
Speaker 1: It was just pretty bad.
Speaker 4: Oh it's twelve or two, that's my lucky that's my
Speaker 4: lucky time, because okay, anyway, that means it's going to
Speaker 4: be a good day.
Speaker 2: So actually, yes, it's true.
Speaker 4: Yeah. So when I started going to therapy, I this
Speaker 4: was about four years ago when I when I really
Speaker 4: started on this specific journey. I had a therapist to
Speaker 4: get over an abusive X years ago, but I stopped
Speaker 4: talking to my dad. I'm not going to get that
Speaker 4: much into it, but ever since I stopped talking to
Speaker 4: my dad and I started going to therapy, all of
Speaker 4: a sudden, I felt like I like a weight was
Speaker 4: lifted and I was able to fly and I was
Speaker 4: able to pursue things that I wanted to pursue because
Speaker 4: I didn't have anyone to worry about except for myself.
Speaker 4: And then also in magic or I guess in any
Speaker 4: sort of community, the more successful you become, the more
Speaker 4: you have and so having to deal with the haters
Speaker 4: is like really important for.
Speaker 1: Me because I really.
Speaker 4: Oh, absolutely yeah, some people trying to sabotage either our
Speaker 4: relationship or my career. And this has happened for years,
Speaker 4: and I'm such a people pleaser that I would rather
Speaker 4: but this is in the past. I would rather not
Speaker 4: succeed in order to make someone feel more comfortable. But
Speaker 4: now that I have been going to therapy and going
Speaker 4: to my psychiatrist and I also have an ADHD group
Speaker 4: therapy session, it's so much more helpful that there are
Speaker 4: people I can relate to, and then cutting off people
Speaker 4: who are toxic for me, and being able to say
Speaker 4: no and be a being able to delegate tasks to
Speaker 4: other people and ask people things. It has been so
Speaker 4: helpful for my career, like just because I'm doing what
Speaker 4: I want to do and I don't feel bad about it,
Speaker 4: and it's a beautiful, freeing feeling, and I'm trying to
Speaker 4: spread that word, which is why I'm on the board.
Speaker 4: I want to be able to be a welcoming presence
Speaker 4: to people in marginalized communities in Magic because I know
Speaker 4: how it feels to either be made fun of or
Speaker 4: to be hated on and to be backstabbed. So I
Speaker 4: feel really strong, that's my answer.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's wonderful and that you've been able to
Speaker 2: kind of harness it and channel it. I write a
Speaker 2: lot about the link between mental illness and creativity. In fact,
Speaker 2: that's one of the most recent posts on my sub stack,
Speaker 2: is the interesting linkages between the two. Do you feel
Speaker 2: like it fuels your creativity at all?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 4: Absolutely, I'm working on a solo show where I actually
Speaker 4: talk about the struggle of my mental health journey.
Speaker 1: It's beautiful.
Speaker 4: Not I'm not saying like, oh, I'm not tooting my
Speaker 4: own horn, but for me, it's beautiful because when I started,
Speaker 4: I was also on an edible, so maybe that's why
Speaker 4: I was crying. But when I was just writing it,
Speaker 4: I started crying and it was this therapeutic thing. I'm like,
Speaker 4: I really need to do this solo show. I'm afraid
Speaker 4: to do it, but I think it's going to be
Speaker 4: helpful for it so people can see the struggle that
Speaker 4: I've gone through. But with magic, you know, magic can
Speaker 4: be considered an art form.
Speaker 2: Eric, do you have any issues he wish to share.
Speaker 3: No, I'm good.
Speaker 4: I think he also has ADHD, but you know that's
Speaker 4: his own mental health journey.
Speaker 5: I had a weird enough childhood to where I'm doing
Speaker 5: magic right now, so that yeah, yeah, No, there was
Speaker 5: a I we had a parot hair in La where
Speaker 5: I was saying a therapist and I found it to
Speaker 5: be really helpful and I stopped. But I feel like
Speaker 5: in the time she gave me a good way of
Speaker 5: orienting how I was looking at what was going on
Speaker 5: in my life with friendships and stuff.
Speaker 3: It was very helpful. So I'm pro therapy.
Speaker 2: Good. Good, No, I'm really glad to hear that. How
Speaker 2: was your mental health you guys were on pen and
Speaker 2: Tears Full of Us. How was your mental health tracking
Speaker 2: that whole journey like before and after?
Speaker 3: H Well, it's super stressful, anxiety inducing. You know.
Speaker 5: We just went on it a second time and we
Speaker 5: can't no, no, no, no, we just recorded a year.
Speaker 5: But it was interesting the second time through the first
Speaker 5: time it was such a high stress preparation process that
Speaker 5: I think we were kind of like on each other more.
Speaker 5: We were arguing more that last one, just like over details,
Speaker 5: and this time I think we just each let each
Speaker 5: other do our thing more.
Speaker 3: As we prepared.
Speaker 4: We're learning each other's strengths and weaknesses and being able
Speaker 4: to let go of certain things, you know, like delegating
Speaker 4: tests to the other person. I'm better with like social
Speaker 4: media and marketing and stuff like that. And he's just
Speaker 4: like a classic style worker. He can just like sit
Speaker 4: down from for two hours and just work on one thing.
Speaker 5: I'm very into the scripting of things and the creative
Speaker 5: side of constructing the routines, especially when they're from scratch,
Speaker 5: like what we've been doing on full.
Speaker 4: And I'll just have ideas. You know, this and this
Speaker 4: and this and this.
Speaker 5: It is. Yeah, it's good to know when you can
Speaker 5: let go and not feel bad about it because you know,
Speaker 5: just letting the other person take the reins on something.
Speaker 3: And I think that made it a lot easier this time.
Speaker 4: I remember after the first one, I had post adrenaline syndrome.
Speaker 4: Have you ever had that before?
Speaker 2: Oh, definitely, also post dopamine influx syndrome.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yes, yeah, I probably also had that too, but
Speaker 4: I was depressed for days after fool us. I don't know,
Speaker 4: because I was just so, you know, getting ready for
Speaker 4: it for months. And then it was done and it
Speaker 4: was the most amazing day of my entire life. And
Speaker 4: then there was after that it was crazy and then
Speaker 4: very common.
Speaker 3: Even that was probably less this time to anything.
Speaker 4: The post adrenaline syndrome was less, and I guess getting
Speaker 4: ready for it was less.
Speaker 1: But the night before we had to go.
Speaker 4: To Vegas, we found out that our rehearsal was like
Speaker 4: the day the next day, so we ended up leaving
Speaker 4: at three am to get to Vegas. And the reason
Speaker 4: I'm even saying this story is because my friend was like,
Speaker 4: do you want some adderall? And I don't take adderall,
Speaker 4: but I'm like, I need adderall because I need to
Speaker 4: pack everything up.
Speaker 1: But we have so much to do.
Speaker 4: I should not have taken adderall my entire I had
Speaker 4: a panic attack. I haven't had a panic attack in
Speaker 4: a long time. I had a panic attack. I was sweating,
Speaker 4: my face was numb, my fingertips were numb, and I
Speaker 4: could I could barely talk.
Speaker 1: But I know the tools that I.
Speaker 4: Need when I'm going through a panic attack, and so
Speaker 4: I'm like, I have my like meditation room, and I'm like, Eric,
Speaker 4: i need popsicles because it's important for me to have
Speaker 4: popsicles because of the sensation of the cold and also
Speaker 4: the taste having having essential oils, you know, the different
Speaker 4: sensations having an ice pack on my head. I have
Speaker 4: an ergonomic chair, I have a little waterfall and fairy
Speaker 4: lights and meditation music and.
Speaker 1: All of those together calmed me down.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I feel like I'm growing because I now
Speaker 4: know how to communicate what I need in the midst
Speaker 4: of a really bad panic attack. And he's so good
Speaker 4: at like getting all.
Speaker 1: The things from me.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean, honestly, you guys are such complimentary energies, right,
Speaker 2: Like it's like he you know, he's uh he I'm
Speaker 2: talking about him, like he's not right in front of me.
Speaker 2: Well he is not technical right in front of me.
Speaker 2: But uh, you're you're so Eric, you are you're striking
Speaker 2: very realistic, practical, you know, and uh and get things done.
Speaker 2: And my gosh, you know it's with a D. D
Speaker 2: needs that needs that desperately. So good stuff, man, Eric, tells,
Speaker 2: tell me tell us a little about your new book
Speaker 2: that you're working on about magic archetypes, because I'm super
Speaker 2: interested in this personally.
Speaker 5: Oh, yes, thank you, good question. I'm I'm really excited
Speaker 5: about it. And uh, basically, the book's inspired by Joseph Campbell's.
Speaker 1: The Hello.
Speaker 5: And our friend John Booker has been gracious enough to kind.
Speaker 1: Of like, guys know John Booker? Yes, do you know?
Speaker 1: He knows every Do you know John Booker? Homeboy, he's amazing.
Speaker 2: Out with him a couple of weeks ago. Well, you'll
Speaker 2: have to we'll have to tell him. We know each other.
Speaker 2: We all know each other.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're over you with seeing them.
Speaker 4: I have a quick anecdote about John. We ran into
Speaker 4: him at cheesecake factory for our anniversary or something like that,
Speaker 4: and then he ended up paying for us, but he
Speaker 4: didn't tell us the waiter. They left and the waiter
Speaker 4: and he's so nice.
Speaker 2: That was very That's called generous magic. Yeah, but I'm sorry,
Speaker 2: didn't mean it. I didn't mean to interrupt you. But
Speaker 2: you know he's awesome. Yeah. Yeah, because he runs the
Speaker 2: Joseph Campbell Foundation, so exactly this is relevant.
Speaker 5: He has a doctor in mythology and expert on all things.
Speaker 5: But he's been helping me too. But the idea for
Speaker 5: the book is, I'm going to break down the thirteen
Speaker 5: as I have kind of defined the higher highest order
Speaker 5: level of categorization there, the thirteen archetypes of magic. And
Speaker 5: you know, because a lot of magicians just randomly say, oh,
Speaker 5: I'm a close up magician or I'm a mentalist, and
Speaker 5: they're talking about maybe the props they use or the
Speaker 5: size of the audience they do, but they should really
Speaker 5: be identifying themselves as the archetype of magic that they are,
Speaker 5: and in other words, like why are they doing magic?
Speaker 5: And what kind of effect are they trying to have
Speaker 5: on the audience with their magic? Because I think that's
Speaker 5: a more important way to kind of organize our thoughts
Speaker 5: on it.
Speaker 2: So what archetype would I be? I'm the amazing doctor
Speaker 2: Scott is my magician name, and I try to unlock
Speaker 2: the potential of others through my psychology and my inspiration
Speaker 2: and motivation. What archetype would that be?
Speaker 5: I wonder, maybe could be a kid wonder that's one
Speaker 5: of the archives. But I think you'd be third Eye,
Speaker 5: which I guess would encompass what most people think of
Speaker 5: as mentalists. But basically, you know, so I'm trying to
Speaker 5: do like a string theory thing like Joseph Campbell did.
Speaker 5: But basically, the third eye archetype could be sort of
Speaker 5: like a tarot reader, like maybe you do have powers,
Speaker 5: or it could be like a Sherlock Holmes type figure
Speaker 5: or a psychologist, you know, psychiatrist type figure. You're picking
Speaker 5: up on things that most people don't see.
Speaker 2: I love that. I love that, And so we won't
Speaker 2: spoil the other sixteen. Well, we'll have people read twelve twelve.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I don't know why I made that up.
Speaker 2: I made up a number, but the other eleven.
Speaker 3: So did I? And I made a thirteen?
Speaker 2: But why did I even say seven? Why'd I think
Speaker 2: seventeen total? Anyway, I really am excited for that book. Actually, really, hey, look,
Speaker 2: do you guys, I know you're not prepared for this,
Speaker 2: but do you want to do a magic trick for me?
Speaker 2: And I can do one for you? Guys? Do you
Speaker 2: want to exchange magic tricks or you don't have to?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, should we just do some mentalism so
Speaker 4: we have the audience see what we're talking about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, should we try put you on the spot and
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 4: We performed for Share a couple of weeks ago and
Speaker 4: I was literally on the spot we found out she
Speaker 4: was there, and I was like, I want to meet her.
Speaker 4: And then this guy is like, all right, the cosmic.
Speaker 1: Romantics at performing.
Speaker 4: I'm like, well, that's the way to meet schaer.
Speaker 5: Oh.
Speaker 3: We had that full of threat and we did like
Speaker 3: ten minutes.
Speaker 4: Wait, did a spool, I did my School of Thread trick,
Speaker 4: and then we did mentalism and she loved us and
Speaker 4: she made me kiss on the cheeks.
Speaker 1: So yes, we can do it.
Speaker 2: Okay, let's go.
Speaker 3: Let's go.
Speaker 2: Hope the sells tickets for y'all. Hope the sells tickets
Speaker 2: for you all.
Speaker 4: I'm blindfolded once, I'm blindfolded twice, and I'm blindfolded a
Speaker 4: third time.
Speaker 5: There's no mirror behind us, there's no microphones in our
Speaker 5: airs because we did.
Speaker 3: Not prepare this, but.
Speaker 5: Kind of like you might have seen us doing our show. Scott,
Speaker 5: do you have any random item nearby? Yes, and hold
Speaker 5: it up so that so that I and see.
Speaker 3: I have wanted home all right, and look imagine that.
Speaker 2: Okay, perfect, Okay.
Speaker 4: Okay, why am I seeing? Is this like a something
Speaker 4: you can write with maybe okay, and it smells kind
Speaker 4: of good.
Speaker 2: Is this a sharpie if you're weird like I am, Yes, American, Okay.
Speaker 1: You know what's interesting is the way you went.
Speaker 4: Yes, I'm like, okay, it's going to be a sharpie
Speaker 4: because I'm sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like, I mean, I mean, bless you. You're like real,
Speaker 2: you're not revealing your secrets, but you are giving some hints.
Speaker 2: So blessed, I mean blessed.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: See, you're you're what what How sure were you that
Speaker 5: it was a sharp I was not sure.
Speaker 2: I mean you still you went and you went for it,
Speaker 2: went for it. Pick one of these cards because people
Speaker 2: have signed all the whole bunch. So I don't have
Speaker 2: the full deck here. That's why it's not the full
Speaker 2: deck legitimately, that's.
Speaker 1: Not what you the card. Yes, tell me, tell me.
Speaker 3: Let's six of club six of clubs.
Speaker 1: I was looking at the six of clubs as well.
Speaker 2: Okay, six of.
Speaker 6: Okay, six of clubs, right, yes, okay, So let me
Speaker 6: just put the rest back in the box.
Speaker 2: Okay. Let me the reason why the sharpie is I
Speaker 2: want to sign your initials E and B any E Okay, okay,
Speaker 2: any any i really didn't write it too well, but
Speaker 2: there you go. Okay, better than my writing? Is this
Speaker 2: better than you really?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Okay, so let us let us put this in the deck.
Speaker 2: I'm going to look away. I'm going to look away
Speaker 2: and put it somewhere in here. Let me tell me
Speaker 2: if I'm all right, tell me if i'm if it's
Speaker 2: going Is it going in?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 4: What's going in?
Speaker 2: Is it in?
Speaker 4: Yes?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 1: Yep, let's close the box.
Speaker 2: All right, my friends, all right, okay, now let's see
Speaker 2: what would you be impressed? What would you be impressed with?
Speaker 2: What would you impressed?
Speaker 5: If you can find our card? I would be impressed.
Speaker 5: It's in the deck somewhere.
Speaker 2: Okay, how about if I well, no, I can't guessing
Speaker 2: the cards not impressive because I already know what the
Speaker 2: what that is? Well okay, earlier I was saying in
Speaker 2: the show, how I have a magic addiction, right, yes,
Speaker 2: and so with this magic addiction, I have to take
Speaker 2: these fucking pills every day of my life. Okay, these
Speaker 2: pills are are so addictive. The pills are addictive too,
Speaker 2: But once I finished the pills, I usually can just
Speaker 2: calm down and take a deep sigh and then I
Speaker 2: can continue my magic.
Speaker 7: No way, I'm gonna no way, it's signed. I'm cool.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: Awesome.
Speaker 4: That's really smart, like getting, you know, getting rid of
Speaker 4: the pills.
Speaker 3: What a perfect, What a perfect? There was even more.
Speaker 2: That was like, there's no way to get there's no
Speaker 2: way to get this out. I can't. I can't.
Speaker 4: If I'm like, wow, it's very here now.
Speaker 2: That would be actually amazing.
Speaker 3: I love that's so you too, with the so and stuff.
Speaker 2: We got, we got gotta we gotta get together sometimes
Speaker 2: just do magic for each other.
Speaker 4: Yeah are you Are you on the East Coast or
Speaker 4: where are you based?
Speaker 2: I'm in Santa Monica right now?
Speaker 1: Okay? Cool?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, and I go back and forth between here
Speaker 2: in New York. It's so funny. I got I got
Speaker 2: accidentally got the pills in my in my drink when
Speaker 2: I was getting them out.
Speaker 3: So it looks like you're gonna have a good day. Okay,
Speaker 3: I didn't mean.
Speaker 2: I didn't mean to do that. I think those pills
Speaker 2: are wasted now right because unless I yeah, down them,
Speaker 2: but I can't put them back in the bottle. But anyway, not.
Speaker 1: Like a placebo pill. They kind of look like.
Speaker 2: They are pabo pills. Yes, they're definitely, they're definitely. There's
Speaker 2: nothing in them. There's nothing in them. Really, Well, guys,
Speaker 2: you guys are awesome. You've been described as the Lucian
Speaker 2: Ricky of magic, and do you like that description?
Speaker 3: I love I love that. I can't go. Tway is
Speaker 3: a genius for for coining that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and I agree with that description. Anything else
Speaker 2: do you want to talk about? Coming up? Ada twist?
Speaker 2: Do you want to talk about that?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was on a twist.
Speaker 2: I pulled back in my bottle.
Speaker 3: Talk to me.
Speaker 4: She's one episode four and let's see. I was also
Speaker 4: in Marvelous in the black Hole. And I'm about to
Speaker 4: be on a really popular kids YouTube channel really but
Speaker 4: I'm not allowed to say what yet, and hearing consulted
Speaker 4: for it, and yeah, because I want to do more
Speaker 4: magic for kids, not like a birthday party magician, but
Speaker 4: more like for on screen.
Speaker 1: It's super fun.
Speaker 5: And I've consulted for the Disney channel. Now I'll get
Speaker 5: to brag that I've consulted for the really big YouTube
Speaker 5: channel that we cannot name.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there were more we're doing it for. It's a
Speaker 4: company that has like a bunch of different ips and
Speaker 4: we're doing five different ips, and their individual eyeps have
Speaker 4: millions and millions of followers.
Speaker 5: So hopefully, but maybe there are some things we can say.
Speaker 5: We have some fun public shows coming up, performing a
Speaker 5: Black Rabbit Rose soon and we're to be back at
Speaker 5: Illusion Magic Long soon doing our doing our full evening
Speaker 5: show so like to forty minute, like yeah, bringing out
Speaker 5: everything we got.
Speaker 4: And we're wanting to perform on cruise ships, so we
Speaker 4: want to film these performances, and so we're trying to
Speaker 4: get a bunch of people to come out so we
Speaker 4: have a good audience.
Speaker 2: I hope that works for you. Have you never done
Speaker 2: a cruise ship before?
Speaker 4: No, I want to because I can't afford to travel,
Speaker 4: so you know, might as well work.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I get paid to travel, get paid to.
Speaker 2: Do Man, that should be so much fun. And then
Speaker 2: yeah you can just you'll pick the most exotic locations
Speaker 2: to go to. Yeah, so everyone watched the Cosmic Romantics.
Speaker 2: They are great. They have inspired me, they haven't they
Speaker 2: They're one of my I'm going to forever consider you
Speaker 2: guys one of my personal inspirations. Yeah yeah, yeah, you
Speaker 2: with the continue putting the bills back, your card's gone
Speaker 2: by the way, it's it's but uh yeah, just everyone
Speaker 2: watched them. I hope you guys find a mental balance
Speaker 2: between your work and your play, although your work is
Speaker 2: your play in a lot of ways, isn't it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's one in the same.
Speaker 1: Yeah, take a day off.
Speaker 2: Well with magic, do you do? You have to?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 5: No, we're doing okay, but we want more. We want
Speaker 5: to make more money and work less in the future.
Speaker 5: We wouldn't mind having a little more free time and relaxation.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but all things that are. We're very lucky to
Speaker 3: be doing this.
Speaker 2: We got to get you a I know you're doing
Speaker 2: all sorts of specials, but we need to get you
Speaker 2: a big like TV series.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, Yes I do. Let's make
Speaker 1: it happen watching contact us.
Speaker 2: Let's manifest that. Let's manifest that. Absolutely get you guys
Speaker 2: a TV series. Thank you so much guys for being
Speaker 2: on the Psychology podcast Our Pleasure.
Speaker 3: Thank you for having fun. It's been an honor.