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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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Speaker 2: This is Wall Street Week. I'm David Weston bringing you

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Speaker 2: stories of capitalism. Losing valuable people to migration isn't that unusual?

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Speaker 2: But what does it mean when even your former prime

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Speaker 2: minister leaves to find opportunities elsewhere? Plus President Trump is

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Speaker 2: a big booster of stable coins, but what are they

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Speaker 2: actually good for and what do they mean for the

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Speaker 2: banking system? And grocery shells are packed with more varieties

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Speaker 2: of bubbly water than you can count. Why are there

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Speaker 2: so many? And how many will survive? But we start

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Speaker 2: with the postponed Beijing summit between President Trump and President

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Speaker 2: g were scheduled because of a war in Iran that

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Speaker 2: was supposed to be over by now. How much will

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Speaker 2: it affect discussions between the two leaders, assuming that they

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Speaker 2: happen as planned. Meyron Brilliant is a senior counselor at

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Speaker 2: the DGA Albright Group and recently returned from China.

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Speaker 3: I think there's been a fair amount between the economic leaders,

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Speaker 3: right so, Vice Premier Holofong on the Chinese side and

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Speaker 3: his counterpart here, Secretary President Ambassad Greer. I have had

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Speaker 3: six or seven rounds of discussions. So I think on

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Speaker 3: that side they understand where the guardrails are, what can

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Speaker 3: be done. There are some questions about, you know, how

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Speaker 3: much can be done in areas like export controls. But

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Speaker 3: I think I think the United States thinks they're going

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Speaker 3: to get something on you know, market access, more beef,

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Speaker 3: more soybeans, maybe Boeing planes, something progress in those kinds

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Speaker 3: of areas. So I think that side of the equation

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Speaker 3: is good. The side that is less clear is the

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Speaker 3: political side. As you suggested, somewhat to this nature, with

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Speaker 3: this high expectations tend to take months to prepare. With

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Speaker 3: the press and the administration distracted by the war in

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Speaker 3: the Middle East, it's not had the same level of

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Speaker 3: political connectivity between say, Foreign Minister Wange and his counterpart,

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Speaker 3: Secretary of State Rubio. There is dialogue, but I'm not

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Speaker 3: sure the infrastructure the system has been as deep and

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Speaker 3: broad as you would expect of as summit of this nature.

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Speaker 2: If you think about the wish list from the two sides.

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Speaker 2: You just mentioned some of the things the United States

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Speaker 2: would like selling more soybins, for example, Boeing planes or

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Speaker 2: things like that. But this is the first meeting these

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Speaker 2: two leaders since they really had sort of a trade dispute,

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Speaker 2: particularly over things like critical minerals. Have they put it

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Speaker 2: back together.

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Speaker 3: Well, twenty five was a tumultuous year in the US

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Speaker 3: China relationship, right there was the escalation on terraffs, and

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Speaker 3: of course, you know, I think China was more prepared

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Speaker 3: and they use their advantage. They leveraged the critical minerals

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Speaker 3: rare earth issue to their advantage and they put some

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Speaker 3: choke points on the Uni States, not just the United States,

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Speaker 3: Japan as well. So twenty five was an unpredictable and

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Speaker 3: complicated year. Twenty twenty six hasn't been made easier by

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Speaker 3: the situation and wrong because that's another dynamic in the relationship.

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Speaker 3: But both sides recognize that a global recession doesn't serve

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Speaker 3: their interests. Both sides are trying to manage a further

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Speaker 3: deterioration of the relationship. It's not because they want to

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Speaker 3: be friends, but it's because each side recognizes that stability

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Speaker 3: is in their self interest.

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Speaker 4: So that's what they're managing.

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Speaker 3: They're trying to create a concrete list of deliverables. It's

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Speaker 3: not going to be a home run of a visit,

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Speaker 3: but even moving incrementally forward and having the optics of

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Speaker 3: the two leaders meet not just once, but possibly two

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Speaker 3: or three times this year.

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Speaker 4: That's progress in one sense.

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Speaker 3: That creates some stability, But to me, it's not a ceiling,

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Speaker 3: it's a floor.

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Speaker 2: You mentioned that President Trump said he'd like to have

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Speaker 2: several minute meetings this year. Does that reduce the likelihood

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Speaker 2: that any one meeting will have a major breakthrough because

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Speaker 2: the Chinese are thingk in wait a second, we've got

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Speaker 2: more of these coming.

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Speaker 5: Well.

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Speaker 3: I was in Beijing, as you know, ten days ago,

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Speaker 3: and my sense is that Chinese are pretty confident. They

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Speaker 3: think they've cracked the code on President Trump. They think

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Speaker 3: they've you know, they got a playbook, and their playbook

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Speaker 3: is not to appease the Trump administration like they did

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Speaker 3: try and Trump one point zero and Trump two point zero.

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Speaker 3: They're punching back, and we see a little bit of

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Speaker 3: this on both sides.

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Speaker 4: Tip for tat US issues.

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Speaker 3: New regulations under the FCC, the Chinese issue new exit

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Speaker 3: bans that affect supply chains on critical minerals. So each

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Speaker 3: side is feeling each other out sort of speak. I

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Speaker 3: think ultimately China will do enough to create some momentum

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Speaker 3: out of this visit, but not so much that they

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Speaker 3: deliver all that they can deliver in this first summit.

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Speaker 3: They're going to test the market, meaning they're going to

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Speaker 3: test whether they can count on Trump delivering, and that's

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Speaker 3: that's pretty unpredictable right now.

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Speaker 2: What's on the Chinese wish list? What do they want

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Speaker 2: home to deliver?

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Speaker 4: I think a couple of things, and I think they're

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Speaker 4: going to be hard to get.

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Speaker 3: One is they want guardrails around export controls, but you

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Speaker 3: know from the administration officials I talked to, they don't

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Speaker 3: want to go there. They view that as a national

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Speaker 3: security imperative in the United States, not something to negotiate

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Speaker 3: in the China US relationship, but that's clearly high on

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Speaker 3: their list. Second, they want some kind of clarity on tariffs.

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Speaker 3: There there's a little bit of give and take. The

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Speaker 3: administration seems to like this idea of a board of trade.

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Speaker 3: Each side gives up something on tariffs. We want to

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Speaker 3: get something back in return, obviously market access, but I

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Speaker 3: think that is negotiable. The third thing is I think

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Speaker 3: the administration has to watch out for, is the Chinese

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Speaker 3: wants something on Taiwan. They'd love to see the President

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Speaker 3: make some kind of statement around peaceful unification. We've had

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Speaker 3: five decades where the United States has stayed the course

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Speaker 3: on its policy on Taiwan. The Chinese think that dealing

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Speaker 3: with the President of the United States, they might be

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Speaker 3: able to get something done in Taiwan.

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Speaker 4: I hope not. That would be a game changer.

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Speaker 2: Is there any prospect that President Trump might ask for

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Speaker 2: help from President g on Iran.

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Speaker 3: I think that he'll lean in on that issue, But

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Speaker 3: depending what you refer as help, I think he'll lean

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Speaker 3: in in trying to get the Chinese to back off helping.

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Speaker 3: But we know that China has already helped Iran on

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Speaker 3: surveillance technology. We know that they've helped on drone technology.

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Speaker 3: So China's leaned in a little bit. But China has

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Speaker 3: to be careful. Their stakes in the Middle East are

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Speaker 3: not as high as their stakes in the US China

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Speaker 3: relationship stability between China United States is still a higher

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Speaker 3: priority than coming to the aid of Iran. They know

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Speaker 3: that they do have ten percent of their coming from Iran,

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Speaker 3: but they have diversified in the energy space, not just

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Speaker 3: on oil and gas suppliers, but also in solar and renewables.

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Speaker 4: So therefore they're less.

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Speaker 3: Reliant on Iran than they use to be, and that

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Speaker 3: also factors into their equation.

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Speaker 2: You know China, well you also know US business. Well

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Speaker 2: for US business people leaders in this country, what should

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Speaker 2: they be looking at in this summit?

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Speaker 4: Well, you know, symbols matter.

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Speaker 3: So let's see what happens with China and the United

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Speaker 3: States at the summit. Do the leaders embrace some kind

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Speaker 3: of pact. Do they provide a little bit more business certainty?

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Speaker 3: Do they create space on both sides where there's not

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Speaker 3: going to be this tit for tat retaliation. There's a

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Speaker 3: lot of sensitivities. There's a lot of competition. I'm looking

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Speaker 3: for symbols on AI. Okay, we're going to compete intensely

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Speaker 3: with China on AI, but we also have to think

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Speaker 3: about the risk in the system. And China raise that

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Speaker 3: government leader after government leader raised AI. Is is this

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Speaker 3: an opportunity? I think business would encourage that. Look, you know,

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Speaker 3: during the height of the Soviet Unions Cold War, we

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Speaker 3: had a hotline between Moscow and want Washington. Should we

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Speaker 3: create an AI hotline? Should we have red lines on AI?

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Speaker 3: Should we create safety protocols? So this is the kind

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Speaker 3: of things that I think would be stabilizing in the relationship.

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Speaker 4: We're looking for that.

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Speaker 3: We're obviously also looking for each side to pull back

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Speaker 3: on some of the regulatory behavior that creates mischief in

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Speaker 3: the relationship, that creates irritants and creates impediments, and we'll

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Speaker 3: hope to see some of that come out of this summit.

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Speaker 3: But the deliverables that we see at the summit are

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Speaker 3: not going to be home runs. They're going to be singles.

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Speaker 3: Singles matter. You get enough singles, you score runs. But

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Speaker 3: I think we should be cautioned against having high expectations

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Speaker 3: at the first summit, but it's still important to have.

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Speaker 2: It was the Iran war that caused the delay in

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Speaker 2: the summit.

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Speaker 6: What we've seen over the past year and almost a

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Speaker 6: half between the two countries has been this kind of

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Speaker 6: Titford hat diplomacy around.

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Speaker 2: But Elizabeth Economy, senior fellow at the Hoover Institution, thinks

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Speaker 2: that that will not be this central issue for the

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Speaker 2: leaders as they look for common ground. There is a

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Speaker 2: summit schedule between President Trump and President g in Beijing.

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Speaker 2: First of all, will it happen.

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Speaker 6: I think it's going to happen. I think we're in

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Speaker 6: the midst of a ceasefire. I think the President is

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Speaker 6: determined to hold the ceasefire in Iran in order to

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Speaker 6: have the summit, if for no other reason.

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Speaker 2: How much will Iran influence the agenda at the summit.

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Speaker 6: I think the Iranian issue and the war in Iran

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Speaker 6: is going to be a secondary issue. I think, for

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Speaker 6: she didn't ping in for Donald Trump, this summit is

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Speaker 6: really about finding a degree of stability in the relationship.

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Speaker 6: I think that's really the issue on which both sides

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Speaker 6: are aligned, and I think that's going to come in

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Speaker 6: the trade and the investment realm. So I think Iran

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Speaker 6: will be there, Russia Ukraine will be there, but they'll

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Speaker 6: be very much secondary issues.

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Speaker 2: Do the Chinese trust President Trump because President Trump is

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Speaker 2: known for being sort of unpredictable at times.

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Speaker 6: Yes, I think that they trust that if he gets

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Speaker 6: what he wants, that he will also give to them,

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Speaker 6: and so I think they've spent a lot of time

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Speaker 6: trying to understand what his priorities are and what he's

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Speaker 6: prepared to give in return. Of course, they were very

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Speaker 6: pleasantly surprised by the President's decision to allow the export

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Speaker 6: of H two hundreds last summer. That was a big

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Speaker 6: win for the Chinese. So I think they're looking similarly

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Speaker 6: for some new technologies to be lifted out of the

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Speaker 6: export control bucket. I think they'd like to see a

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Speaker 6: reduction in the tariffs. Basically, they want to be treated

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Speaker 6: as a normal power. They don't want to have sort

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Speaker 6: of the highest tariffs, the highest number of export controls,

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Speaker 6: and the most investment restrictions placed on them.

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Speaker 2: A lot has been said about the competition in AI

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Speaker 2: between the United States and China. Is there also possibility

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Speaker 2: for cooperation? I see now the White House is now

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Speaker 2: saying maybe we should have some rules about releasing new

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Speaker 2: models modems. Do you think President She's opened some sort

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Speaker 2: of a multilateral agreement.

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Speaker 6: I think that would be a very very complex lex negotiation.

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Speaker 6: What I understand is on the table for the summit

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Speaker 6: at a very least is really a negotiation around both

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Speaker 6: sides agreeing to terms for keeping AI models, certain AI models,

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Speaker 6: advanced AI out of the hands of rogue actors. I

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Speaker 6: think that's the sort of starting point for where the

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Speaker 6: two sides might come together.

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Speaker 2: Coming up the brain drain away from New Zealand, what's

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Speaker 2: causing it and can anything be done? This is a

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Speaker 2: story about a trade deficit, not in goods or services,

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Speaker 2: but in intellectual capital. The ebbs and flows of migration

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Speaker 2: mean that any country's human resources fluctuate over time. But

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Speaker 2: what happens when they go only one way and over

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Speaker 2: an extended period of time? What kind of country do

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Speaker 2: to turn things around? That is the question New Zealand

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Speaker 2: is asking itself right now.

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Speaker 7: Can I describe a long black place.

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Speaker 2: In Melbourne, the so called coffee capital of the world.

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Speaker 2: Lawyer Sean Collier has found.

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Speaker 4: A new home, Thank you so much.

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Speaker 2: The New Zealander moved to Australia in twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 7: I would say pretty much entirely for economic reasons. I

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Speaker 7: was working as a lawyer in Auckland for about a

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Speaker 7: year and a half and I was essentially living at

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Speaker 7: subsistence level, pretty much unable to save any money. I

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Speaker 7: was Once you get paid, it would just be rent, groceries, gas, All.

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Speaker 4: The money's gone.

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Speaker 7: Essentially, everyone's got like a different sort of version of events.

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Speaker 7: But for me at least, I basically doubled my income

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Speaker 7: in less than a year and the cost living went down,

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Speaker 7: so the grass was very much greener.

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Speaker 2: Cayer is part of a growing movement. About forty one

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Speaker 2: thousand to New Zealanders moved to Australia in twenty twenty five,

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Speaker 2: the highest level in twelve years, with more than half

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Speaker 2: of those estimated to be between ages twenty and thirty nine,

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Speaker 2: and earlier this year, former Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern joined them,

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Speaker 2: a move which made international headlines and shown a light

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Speaker 2: on New Zealand's economy.

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Speaker 8: There's a bit of a view that our economy isn't

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Speaker 8: performing quite as well as Australia's economy. Then you're feeding

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Speaker 8: the narrative that people are starting to hear at dinner

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Speaker 8: parties that you know, all of our children are leaving,

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Speaker 8: all the healthcare services are better, or some other kind

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Speaker 8: of thing like Ardern.

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Speaker 2: John Key is also a former Prime Minister of New

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Speaker 2: Zealand and before that was global head of Foreign Exchange

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Speaker 2: at Merrill Lynch.

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Speaker 8: The New Zealand economy is not as strong as we'd

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Speaker 8: like to be, and maybe not as strong as historically

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Speaker 8: it has been, but it's not a story of universal

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Speaker 8: lower growth. Actually, Auckland and Wellington, the main censers, have

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Speaker 8: been weaker and largely weaker because of negative house prices,

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Speaker 8: so they said a big impact on construction and all

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Speaker 8: sorts of activity related around housing and the sort of

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Speaker 8: negative wealth effect of people living in Auckland. And when

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Speaker 8: you think Auckland is home to one and a half

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Speaker 8: million people of a population about five million, it has

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Speaker 8: quite a big impact. So yeah, that's been a bit negative.

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Speaker 8: But the rest of the country have been very strong. Actually,

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Speaker 8: rural prices have been strong, so we're a big food producer.

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Speaker 8: Basically started life as Britain's little farm and we continue

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Speaker 8: to be that. We very much a strong food producer.

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Speaker 8: So that part of the country has been good and

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Speaker 8: there's lots of exciting things happening. When New Zealanders have

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Speaker 8: always left for Australia, questions where they come home, largely

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Speaker 8: they do, but not always. I mean, if you look

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Speaker 8: at New Zealand, we're at home of say five million people.

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Speaker 8: Now about half a million, maybe as many as a

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Speaker 8: million New Zealanders live in Australia, so it's quite a few.

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Speaker 8: We're a little bit like Canada is to the United States,

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Speaker 8: and the United States is a sort of magnet for

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Speaker 8: talent out of Canada. Pay packets are higher, opportunities are greater.

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Speaker 8: It's a little bit like that from New Zealand to Australia.

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Speaker 8: And every New Zealander has a free option, so you're

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Speaker 8: free to go to Australia. It depends on the conditions

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Speaker 8: of how you go, but you are free to go.

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Speaker 8: So it's a very open labor market and this is

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Speaker 8: no question that those jobs and opportunities are bigger, and

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Speaker 8: the lifestyle is very similar.

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Speaker 2: But while New Zealanders have always sought the experience of

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Speaker 2: living overseas, be it Australia, the UK, or US, typically

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Speaker 2: they would return home eventually to start a family and

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Speaker 2: buy a house, often with more wealth and increased expertise

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Speaker 2: from their time overseas.

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Speaker 7: I've always thought I would raise my kids and ends ed,

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Speaker 7: you know, I've always like, when I moved here, the

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Speaker 7: plan was to sort of get a bunch of money

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Speaker 7: together and go home. And I've spoken to a lot

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Speaker 7: of Kiwis over here and that's very much their intention

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Speaker 7: as well. But to be honest, like all of the

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Speaker 7: out of all the Kiwis I know that have moved here,

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Speaker 7: I couldn't. I couldn't name more than like, you know,

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Speaker 7: three or four that have actually returned. So I think,

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Speaker 7: I don't know, it's a pretty big it's a pretty

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Speaker 7: big issue, Like it's looking less and less realistic for me.

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Speaker 2: And it's showing up in the numbers. New Zealand's net

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Speaker 2: citizen migration is at its lowest since official data began

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Speaker 2: in two thousand and one. In other words, people are

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Speaker 2: leaving like they always did, but now they're no longer

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Speaker 2: coming back.

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Speaker 1: New Zealand has got a very big productivity problem in

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Speaker 1: that its economy is just muddling through.

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Speaker 2: Julian ted Is Provost at King's College, Cambridge.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of self inflicted wounds in New Zealand,

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Speaker 1: not least, for example, the nimbiism that vents people from

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Speaker 1: building enough houses to ensure that everyone could get access

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Speaker 1: to a house cheaply and easily. So you're creating a

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Speaker 1: New Zealand a real intergenerational inequality problem in that people

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Speaker 1: are inheriting assets are doing well, others aren't. So New

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Speaker 1: Zealand has got a lot of problems and that's one

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Speaker 1: reason why you've got New Zealanders leaving at the moment.

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Speaker 1: But in terms of trying to attract some more people

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Speaker 1: in smart talent that really is the big new game

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Speaker 1: in town.

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Speaker 2: New Zealand's problem is not unique. Poland experienced brain drain

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Speaker 2: after joining the EU, Ireland did so in the wake

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Speaker 2: of the Great Financial Crisis, and Portugal is the latest

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Speaker 2: in Europe. In all three examples, citizens saw new opportunities

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Speaker 2: for higher pay and better jobs elsewhere. But Tet says,

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Speaker 2: the loss of intellectual capital isn't always a bad thing.

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Speaker 9: Is the flow of intellectual capital necessarily a zero sum game.

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Speaker 9: I saw a recent report that suggested actually both countries

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Speaker 9: could benefit because people when they go someplace else, remintain

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Speaker 9: relations back with their home country and there can be

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Speaker 9: a flow of capital of business across the boats boundaries.

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Speaker 9: Can it be something that could benefit both countries.

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Speaker 1: One of the biggest mistake you will make is regard

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Speaker 1: intellectual capital as a zero sum game and to assume

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Speaker 1: they have to hang on to their brilliant minds at

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Speaker 1: all costs and stop them from going around the world.

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Speaker 1: That was a disastrous mistake because Street shows very clearly

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Speaker 1: that to get innovation you ideally need to have one

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Speaker 1: or two things happening, ideally both at the same time.

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Speaker 1: On the one hand, you need to have clusters of

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Speaker 1: brilliant minds who can bump into each other, ideally from

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Speaker 1: different disciplines to create that kind of indisciplinary collisions and creativity.

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Speaker 1: But you also to have some diversity and serendipity that

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Speaker 1: allows people to bump into entirely different ideas in a

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Speaker 1: way that enables them to be more creative. But in

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Speaker 1: terms of people moving around and spending stints of research

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Speaker 1: time in different intellectual hubs and environments, it's absolutely crucial

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Speaker 1: if you want to keep ideas flowing for the benefit

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Speaker 1: of everyone and spark new ones. And it makes my

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Speaker 1: blood boil when I see governments trying to shut the

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Speaker 1: doors on people, whether it's the European Union in the

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Speaker 1: UK which have not yet implemented a youth mobility scheme.

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Speaker 1: That makes my heartbreak. Frankly, the fact that it has

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Speaker 1: become harder to move scientists back and forth across borders,

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Speaker 1: or not just scientists, but social scientists and humanities scholars

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Speaker 1: as well. But also what America's doing at the moment

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Speaker 1: is not helpful in terms of sparking that extraordinary if

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Speaker 1: you like, you know, chemical mix of brilliant minds coming together.

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Speaker 2: A healthy flow of intellectual capital may be a good

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Speaker 2: thing for a country, but it needs to flow in

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Speaker 2: both directions. Poland provides tax incentives and other support for

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Speaker 2: citizens to return Ireland's corporate tax rate attracted foreign direct

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Speaker 2: investment to promote job growth, and Portugal is looking to

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Speaker 2: stem its brain drain by offering tax exemptions for a

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Speaker 2: worker's first decade of employment.

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Speaker 8: As politicians, and I think even as business leaders, we

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Speaker 8: feel unclean about any kind of incentive to do something.

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Speaker 8: And so for instance, of my day, I've put up

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Speaker 8: pretty big incentives for movies to be made that led

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Speaker 8: to the Hobbits and so many other things happening in Avatar,

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Speaker 8: and you mentionine the skills and technology and capacity that

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Speaker 8: came off there. But it caused the massive outcry that

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Speaker 8: we were essentially giving back some of the indirect tax

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Speaker 8: that we got in the form of subsea because we

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Speaker 8: didn't normally do that. But Ireland's done that, It's been

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Speaker 8: quite prepared to do that. I mean, Israel probably has

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Speaker 8: some centers all over the show I'm guessing in the

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Speaker 8: technology space. So I'm not arguing that we need to

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Speaker 8: go back to a sort of stupid world where politicians

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Speaker 8: allocate resources and the wrong outcomes come. I'm just saying,

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Speaker 8: I just wonder whether we sort of we let perfection

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Speaker 8: get in the way of the possible.

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Speaker 2: During Key's time in office, HSBC labeled New Zealand a

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Speaker 2: rock star economy, praise that enhanced its global reputation and

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Speaker 2: helped the country experience positive net migration with Australia for

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Speaker 2: the first time in twenty four years.

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Speaker 8: We had political stability, you know, I was starting to

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Speaker 8: go through Australian prime ministers pretty rapidly. We'd had one myself,

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Speaker 8: and by the end of it that period of eight

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Speaker 8: years in office, HSBC described US as a rock star economy.

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Speaker 8: So people started saying, wow, there really are some great

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Speaker 8: opportunities over in New Zealand. They started coming over, so

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Speaker 8: it's not an impossible thing to get. Sadly, what you

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Speaker 8: see is I mean, in a lot of ways it's

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Speaker 8: a good thing. But we have a very much an

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Speaker 8: integrated economy with Australia. So see closer Economic relations is

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Speaker 8: our free trade deal, and it's about the most comprehensive

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Speaker 8: free trade deal you can get, extremely comprehensive, so goods

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Speaker 8: can travel and either way there are no conditions. Basically

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Speaker 8: investment can do the same. So one of the reasons

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Speaker 8: why you see less Australians coming over is their investment

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Speaker 8: comes into New Zealand, but then they stay in Australia

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Speaker 8: and has someone running the operation here, but they dominos

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Speaker 8: all the operation in Australia. So look, it's a challenge,

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Speaker 8: there's no question about that. But then you've had isolated

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Speaker 8: parts of the country like if you look at say Queenstown,

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Speaker 8: it's had enormous connectivity with Australia, deemed to be kind

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Speaker 8: of beautiful. They Espen of the South, it's attracted enormous

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Speaker 8: number of migrants both from the United States, you know, Kingdom,

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Speaker 8: but Australia, and you are seeing positive net migration there.

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Speaker 8: So it's not every place, but it's certainly been. Haw

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Speaker 8: has felt in Auckland where people have left. I think.

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Speaker 2: New Zealand's government has also introduced a range of measures,

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Speaker 2: including active investor visas for wealthy foreigners and tax incentives

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Speaker 2: for investment. It's not yet driven the sort of economic

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Speaker 2: opportunities to attract Keywi's back home, but for now, key

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Speaker 2: says New Zealand should lean into what it's known for.

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Speaker 8: It can be a little bit negative, but I don't know.

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Speaker 8: I look at New Zealand, I say, okay, yeah, I

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Speaker 8: understand all that, but we're five million people. We really

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Speaker 8: are the last last bus stop on the planet. But

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Speaker 8: we kind of paradise as well. In a world where

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Speaker 8: there's global insecurity, we seem like a really safe place.

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Speaker 8: We are incredibly beautiful. I mean, there's a lot of

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Speaker 8: things going for New Zealand, so I'm kind of the

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Speaker 8: view to say, yeah, we need to acknowledge it. The

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Speaker 8: economy needs to be a bit stronger and create more opportunities.

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Speaker 8: But LEA, it's not sort of panic that all is

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Speaker 8: not fixable, at least in New Zealand, because I A

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Speaker 8: should believe it is.

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Speaker 7: In terms of actually fixing these problems, I think, yeah,

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Speaker 7: like in a nutshell, we need to be looking at

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Speaker 7: things that will actually attract young people back to the country.

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Speaker 7: I think so many people have left now it's not

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Speaker 7: going to be good enough to just stop them leaving.

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Speaker 7: We actually need to look at things that will bring

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Speaker 7: people back. And for my generation, like the main problems

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Speaker 7: are hous it like being able to afford property, being

440
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 7: able to have kids, job stability, you know AI's ruining

441
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 7: job stability for a lot of people, So I think

442
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:40,000
Speaker 7: our government should be looking at ways to sort of

443
00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 7: guarantee that if you work hard in New Zealand, you'll

444
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,440
Speaker 7: actually be able to have a good quality of life,

445
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:49,440
Speaker 7: which is not the current situation over there.

446
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,520
Speaker 2: Up next, President Trump likes them, and the Genius Act

447
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:56,919
Speaker 2: provides a US law to regulate them. But what is

448
00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,920
Speaker 2: the real use case for stable coins and how much

449
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:16,000
Speaker 2: will they transform the banking system? This is a story

450
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:17,879
Speaker 2: about cutting through the noise.

451
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:20,159
Speaker 10: I think bitcoin is the king of this market.

452
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:21,639
Speaker 4: It will remain the king of this market.

453
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 11: I'm laser like focused on bitcoin. I think bitcoin is

454
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 11: digital capital.

455
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:27,359
Speaker 10: I think it's going to outperform.

456
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,880
Speaker 2: The S and PNX over the and definite future.

457
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:33,320
Speaker 3: There was nothing that couldn't be done in crypto better, faster, cheaper,

458
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 3: more transparently.

459
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,680
Speaker 2: There's been a lot of noise about cryptocurrencies. It's sometimes

460
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 2: hard to sort out the crypto noise from the signal.

461
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 2: But whatever the reality behind all the hype, there is

462
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,360
Speaker 2: one particular version of cryptocurrency that is growing in use

463
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 2: that seeks to deliver on the promise of combining the

464
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 2: speed and ease of blockchain with the relative stability of currencies,

465
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 2: and that you may be using without even knowing it.

466
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 2: According to supporters, twenty twenty five was the year of

467
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 2: the a stable coin.

468
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,919
Speaker 11: In five years or ten years, the overwhelming majority of

469
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 11: the payments that happen in the world, just by sheer number.

470
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 12: Of payments are happening via stable coins.

471
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,919
Speaker 2: It can be fundamental to changing not just the financial system,

472
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 2: but the way the broader economic system works, and as

473
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 2: of last year, the stable coin subset of crypto now

474
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 2: has the regulatory backing of the US.

475
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 11: This could be perhaps the greatest revolution in financial technology

476
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 11: since the birth of the Internet itself. A lot of

477
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:32,440
Speaker 11: people are saying that I don't know, what do you

478
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 11: guys think?

479
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 2: Guess The answer to President Trump's question may lie in

480
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,920
Speaker 2: the wallets of people around the world who simply want

481
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 2: to send money across national borders. According to Bloomberg Intelligence,

482
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:47,360
Speaker 2: the total amount of money sent using stable coins will

483
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:51,639
Speaker 2: reach over fifty six trillion dollars by twenty thirty. But however,

484
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:55,919
Speaker 2: bigot ultimately gets it's starting small, with many people sending

485
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 2: just a few hundred dollars at a time. People like Hannah.

486
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 5: Nicole I have been living in New York for eight years,

487
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 5: and I am a restaurant manager. I send money home

488
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,359
Speaker 5: to the Philippines. I would say about like between five

489
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 5: hundred dollars to one thousand dollars a month. I prefer

490
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 5: sending money home through apps like World Remit or Remittly.

491
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:21,680
Speaker 2: Donoi is one of two million Filipinos living abroad. Together,

492
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 2: they sent thirty five billion dollars back to the Philippines

493
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty five, equal to over seven percent of

494
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:32,119
Speaker 2: the country's GDP. For Way Joe, the CEO of Philippine

495
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 2: based Coins pH this is stable coin's biggest opportunity.

496
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 13: Ten years ago, the cost of remittance for every dollar

497
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:43,160
Speaker 13: was eight percent. With technology, with better connectivity and banking rails,

498
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 13: that costs went down to like two to four percent.

499
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 13: By using stable coins, we can lower that cost to

500
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 13: anywhere between you know, zero point five percent or fifty BIPs,

501
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:52,200
Speaker 13: and we hope to lower that.

502
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:53,640
Speaker 10: Even to like twenty to thirty BIPs.

503
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 13: When you're running forty billion dollars with mittens, for every

504
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 13: one percent that you save, you know, that's like four

505
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 13: hundred million dollars that goes back into you know, the

506
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 13: people's pockets right away.

507
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,680
Speaker 2: Coins pH partners with online money transfer platforms to bring

508
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 2: stable coins to users wallets. It partners with, among others, remittly.

509
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 2: It's CEO is Sebastian Gunningham.

510
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 14: Every time that you do a send transaction, we have

511
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:20,400
Speaker 14: a transaction engine that chooses the best way to send

512
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 14: that money at low costs and at speed, so we

513
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:27,439
Speaker 14: use the stable coins rails. The machine decides is the

514
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 14: stable coin rails better, faster, cheaper than any alternative, and

515
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:35,680
Speaker 14: therefore we use it. So we're we're adopting it where

516
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 14: it's when it makes sense, where it beats price, where

517
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 14: it beats speed.

518
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:44,359
Speaker 2: This process is called a stable coin sandwich. A user

519
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 2: in the US deposits dollars with remittely, which converts the

520
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:51,639
Speaker 2: funds into stable coins. These stable coins travel instantly across

521
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 2: a blockchain to coins pH in the Philippines, where they

522
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:58,159
Speaker 2: are converted into local pesos. Although users can hold the

523
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:01,440
Speaker 2: stable coins in a digital wallet, for most the blockchain

524
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 2: path is entirely invisible. Customers interact only with the dollars

525
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,360
Speaker 2: at one end and the paces at the other end,

526
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:12,119
Speaker 2: enjoying the speed of crypto without the complexity of managing it.

527
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 2: We have crypt we have stable coins. There's been a

528
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 2: fair amount volve a hilly in cryptocurrencies. Does that affect

529
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 2: stable coins?

530
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:23,120
Speaker 13: For stable coins, it is moving towards sort of, you know,

531
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 13: just another word for money. Stable Coins are a type

532
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 13: of crypto, but it's sort of like it has grown

533
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 13: out of crypto and can be its own segment.

534
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,639
Speaker 2: Now, what do you regard as your largest opportunity for growth?

535
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 13: Basically lowering the transaction costs and then decreasing the transaction

536
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 13: time to move money in and out of the Philippines.

537
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 10: I think right now, what we see is that.

538
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 13: There's like almost fifteen to twenty million Filipinos at work overseas,

539
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 13: either as domestic helpers work on clues liners, as factory

540
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 13: workers in the Middle East, in Korea and Japan. The

541
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 13: financial services they need are actually back home in the

542
00:28:58,000 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 13: Philippines whereas.

543
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 10: They get paid and the local dollar.

544
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 13: We really believe that by sort of using stable coins

545
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 13: as sort of the conduit, we can actually be able

546
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 13: to deliver our financial services that they need at home

547
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 13: here in the Philippines while working overseas.

548
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 2: Last year, some estimates put the volume of stable coin

549
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 2: transactions at around thirty five trillion dollars, but a new

550
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 2: report for McKenzie's Matt Higginson suggests the reality is much

551
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 2: more modest. How large is the stable coin market right

552
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 2: now and how fast is it growing?

553
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 12: So you'll hear in the media the trillions of dollars

554
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 12: of stable coin payments today, ninety nine percent of that

555
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 12: is crypto related, not the sort of payments we think about,

556
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 12: which is company to company or even paying remittances person

557
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 12: to person. And so we look at this situation today

558
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 12: and say, how much real payments for you is there

559
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 12: out there, and we think it's probably the order of

560
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 12: a billion or two a day, which is tiny. The

561
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 12: late assessments we have are three hundred and ninety billion

562
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 12: dollars in the total year, and that compares with several

563
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 12: trillion dollars of regular payments per.

564
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 4: Day, so a small amount right now.

565
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 2: How does it compare with last year, and how does

566
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 2: it compared with forecast for next year?

567
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 12: The data shows that the volume of real payment transactions

568
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 12: using stable coins probably doubled over the last year. When

569
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 12: you look at the volume of stable coins in circulation,

570
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 12: that went from around one hundred and fifty billion dollars

571
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 12: to three hundred billion dollars today it's doubling, which by

572
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 12: any measure is substantial in terms of growth.

573
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 2: How much of that is cross border international essentially? How

574
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 2: much of it is domestic?

575
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 12: The vast majority is cross border. It's interesting. We've been

576
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 12: looking at the geographic source of those payments with our

577
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 12: research partner, Artemis Analytics. What they found is about sixty

578
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 12: percent originates from Asia, and that surprises a little bit

579
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 12: because a lot of the talk has been in North

580
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 12: America or Europe about the potential of stable coins.

581
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 2: Asia was one of the first regions to recognize the

582
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 2: utility of stable coins and became a front runner in

583
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 2: regulating the space for over a decade. Some Nndu Mahunte

584
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 2: was the Chief Fintech Officer at the Monetary Authority of Singapore,

585
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 2: where he built the country's digital asset strategy.

586
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 15: The single biggest unsolved challenge in the world of payment

587
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 15: is the crossbutter payments with today we have to depend

588
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 15: on traditional correspondent bank in that particular use case. Stable

589
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 15: coin is a great product.

590
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 2: Singapore generally is recognized as a leader in the use

591
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 2: of an and regulation of stable coin. Why why Singapore.

592
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 15: As a country we look at obsence innovation, and we

593
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 15: actually relentlessly focus on use case. We don't do technology

594
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 15: for sake of technology. In Singapore's case, our focus in

595
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 15: stable coin has always been well regulated stable coin issued

596
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 15: under a strong regulatory framework.

597
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 2: Pen and Singapore. We're among the first to establish a

598
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 2: framework requiring companies to maintain liquid reserves representing one hundred

599
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 2: percent of the stable coins they issued. Well Hunty says

600
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 2: robust regulation must lead the way for stable coin to scale.

601
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 15: The principle of regulation should not change because payment is

602
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 15: a payment, know your customer, money laundering, terrorism, financing checks

603
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 15: are I will say hygiens. They're like non negotiable. I

604
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 15: personally believe an existing payment regulation with some incremental coverage

605
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 15: for a stable coin's unique technical requirement is good enough

606
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 15: to be consistent, good enough regulation to manage this risk.

607
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 2: And payment companies agree. Regulatory clarity allows companies to bring

608
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 2: the product to more customers.

609
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 14: Scale matters, which means once you have the infrastructure, we

610
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 14: can move one hundred billion dollars a year in that infrastructure,

611
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 14: but we could also move a trillion dollars a year

612
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 14: without much more. Building trust is expensive, Doing compliance is expensive.

613
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 14: Getting the licenses expensive. Once you put all that in place,

614
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 14: it's a highly scalable business.

615
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 2: Today stable coins are still small players against a colossal

616
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 2: banking system, but they are gaining momentum, with growth expected

617
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 2: to speed up as the Genius Act in the United

618
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 2: States comes into effect.

619
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 12: The Genius Act will come into force by the end

620
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,479
Speaker 12: of the year, and other regulations I expect will follow.

621
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 12: So we haven't really gone live yet at scale, so

622
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 12: I think we have a little time before that train

623
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 12: leaves the station. The sobering part of that is when

624
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 12: it does leave the station, we're going to have adoption

625
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 12: at scale.

626
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 10: We've got groups of.

627
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 12: Banks, potentially dozens of banks suddenly all participating together, and

628
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 12: I think there will be a bit of a scramble

629
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 12: to position myself as a bank between stable coin and

630
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 12: customer to provide the best interface.

631
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 2: What does your success potentially mean for traditional banks?

632
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 13: There's one bank Care in the Philippines that was like

633
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 13: top ten, maybe like six or seventh, but because they're

634
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 13: the only one or the first one to bank you know,

635
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:10,359
Speaker 13: exchanges like ourselves, they're now now a top three bank.

636
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 2: Fast is nice, but when it comes to our money,

637
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:17,759
Speaker 2: there's also something to be said for slow.

638
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,479
Speaker 5: So stable coins is something I would be willing to try.

639
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:22,480
Speaker 5: It's just going to be a matter of convenience, and

640
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 5: then I'm just not too educated about it. I would

641
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:27,719
Speaker 5: also consider if it's also going to be convenient with

642
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 5: my family, because they're not really tech savy, so I

643
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 5: want to make sure that it's going to be easy

644
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 5: for them as well. Trusting an app is really important

645
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 5: for me because it's my hard earned money.

646
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 2: The use of stable coin for cross border transfers is

647
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 2: more for small and medium sized businesses rather than big businesses.

648
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 2: Why don't the big businesses use it for that purpose?

649
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 15: Well, I used to joke that if one thing you

650
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 15: don't want to be instant and quick, it is large transfers,

651
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 15: because nobody's looking to instantly transfer five million dollars. You

652
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:03,320
Speaker 15: want to be that's slow possible, has friction in between

653
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,399
Speaker 15: so that you don't make mistakes. But you don't want

654
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 15: to apply those principles on a small two hundred dollars

655
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 15: transfer across the border, because you're taking a speed versus

656
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:15,919
Speaker 15: the amount of calibrated risk kill.

657
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 13: I've been in crypto for about eight years, and then

658
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 13: you know when I first came in I was like, oh, like,

659
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 13: let's go unbanked, you know, like, you know, let's take

660
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 13: it to Wall Street. But now I've been industry for

661
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 13: such a long time, I've come to appreciate the role

662
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 13: that banks serve, right, Like sometimes you just feel safer

663
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 13: with your.

664
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:36,359
Speaker 10: Money in the bank, right in a vault.

665
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 13: And they've been attacked left, right, front and center by

666
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:41,399
Speaker 13: all kinds of you know, bad actors. But I think

667
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:44,279
Speaker 13: for them to grow, I you know, I think those

668
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 13: that embrace this technology, embrace table coins, I think it's

669
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 13: going to grow leaps and downs faster than those that

670
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 13: do not work with us and grow together or you can,

671
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:54,279
Speaker 13: you know, continue just to be a bank.

672
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 2: Technology might be driving us all sort of future that's faster, cheaper,

673
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:04,239
Speaker 2: and more convenient, but it's not necessarily for everyone or

674
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:07,239
Speaker 2: for every transaction, And for stable coins to reach their

675
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:10,959
Speaker 2: full potential, they may need more regulation with the aim

676
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 2: of fitting in to the legacy banking system rather than

677
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:21,440
Speaker 2: replacing it. Coming up from spin drift to liquid death,

678
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 2: grocery shells are packed with every kind of carbonated water.

679
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 2: Why so many and how many will survive? This is

680
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 2: a story about saturation. Walk down the aisle of your

681
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 2: favorite food store, and you're likely to find more varieties

682
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 2: of bubbly waters than you can count, everything from Lacroix

683
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 2: to spin Drift, not to mention Liquid Death and Waterloop

684
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:55,880
Speaker 2: and a host of others. Why do we need so

685
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 2: many variations of what is essentially water? And why is

686
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 2: there room in the marketplace for so many competitors?

687
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 11: The whole bevers category is atomized. At the end of

688
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:11,239
Speaker 11: the day, there's almost so much real estate in that

689
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:12,839
Speaker 11: grocery store that you go shopping down.

690
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:16,800
Speaker 2: Dave Berwick is now CEO of higher end fruit infused

691
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:22,480
Speaker 2: sparkling water makers Spin Drift, after serving as CEO of

692
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:26,360
Speaker 2: Pete's Coffee and Boston Beer and spending twenty years at Pepsi.

693
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:30,360
Speaker 11: All those brands have to prove themselves to those retailers

694
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:32,839
Speaker 11: who own those shelves that they're worthy of being on

695
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 11: that shelf. So, again, is what makes a category really

696
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,719
Speaker 11: challenging for me? It's what I love about the category

697
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:42,400
Speaker 11: because you know, nothing worth doing in life is really easy,

698
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 11: and this is not easy.

699
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:48,360
Speaker 2: If it's hard to succeed in the carbonated water business,

700
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 2: why are so many companies going into it. Part of

701
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:56,239
Speaker 2: the answer is that it is easy to get a

702
00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 2: foot in the door. Adam Wagley is co founder and

703
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:03,279
Speaker 2: CEO of Butterfly, a venture investment firm focused on all

704
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 2: areas of the food industry.

705
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 16: It's become a lot easier, a lot lower barriers to

706
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 16: entry to creating these brands than ever before because the

707
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 16: infrastructure around creating these brands has enabled that. You know,

708
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 16: in the last ten years that we've kind of gotten

709
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:19,760
Speaker 16: into the space. This used to work in the past

710
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 16: is you'd have to kind of do everything yourself from

711
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:26,680
Speaker 16: scrapped from kind of developing the brand and developing the formulation,

712
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 16: maybe even getting into manufacturing, finding out how to get

713
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 16: your product placed, et cetera. Today, there are many different

714
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:39,840
Speaker 16: outsourced businesses that support this ecosystem. So you can in

715
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,479
Speaker 16: fact go to a co manufacturer who can actually make

716
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 16: the product, they can formulate it for you. They'll usually

717
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 16: work with a packaging company that can help you put

718
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 16: the packaging together, and then you can go to outsourced

719
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 16: marketing organizations that can tell you how to launch a

720
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:57,799
Speaker 16: brand online or you know, from a social media standpoint

721
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 16: and kind of get going in those kind of formats

722
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 16: if you will. So there's this sort of infrastructure of

723
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:07,760
Speaker 16: companies that we call enablers here at Butterfly that actually

724
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:11,760
Speaker 16: support the different infrastructure that a founder or CEO needs

725
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:13,400
Speaker 16: to go create a business from scrapped.

726
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 2: The Bubbly Water business is part of a global beverage

727
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 2: market that sold over a trillion dollars worth of soft

728
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 2: drinks last year. More than a third of that was

729
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:27,240
Speaker 2: SODA's ubiquitous cokes, Pepsis and their brethren, But those soda

730
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:29,960
Speaker 2: sales have come down twenty seven percent over the last

731
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:33,360
Speaker 2: two decades, giving up market share to various forms of water,

732
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:36,400
Speaker 2: which now account for over a quarter of all beverage sales.

733
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:39,840
Speaker 2: Carbonated water is only a modest share of that, but

734
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 2: it is growing noticeably faster than its peers in the US.

735
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 2: Among the driving factors a desire for healthier alternatives to soda.

736
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 2: That's what led Nicole Bernard Dawes to launch her product Nixy.

737
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:56,360
Speaker 17: While the snack aisle and the produce aisle, even the

738
00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 17: dairy aisle, we're getting more and more healthier organic products,

739
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:05,240
Speaker 17: beverageile was still filled with sugar and plastic and almost

740
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 17: no certified organic products. I really saw an opportunity and

741
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,279
Speaker 17: I also really felt it was important to have zero

742
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:14,719
Speaker 17: sugar because I you know, I think liquid sugar is

743
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 17: just not a healthy thing for anybody. We knew we

744
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 17: wanted to be a healthy beverage brand, like that's our mission,

745
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 17: that's who we are. We started with Sparkling Water, which

746
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 17: you know, we felt was one of the cleanest. We

747
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:28,600
Speaker 17: felt it really defined kind of what we were trying

748
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:31,399
Speaker 17: to achieve, and then after we got that out into

749
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:33,800
Speaker 17: the market, we started working on a zero sugar soda.

750
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:36,400
Speaker 17: Zero sugar is still one of the largest drivers of

751
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:40,280
Speaker 17: even conventional beverage. For the conventional soda brands, zero sugar

752
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,400
Speaker 17: is their biggest part of the growth for their business.

753
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 17: And I think that also was exciting to me because

754
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 17: you know, with you, when you have a category that large,

755
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:52,439
Speaker 17: you know, there's a segment of the population not being

756
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 17: served by the products that are the number one or

757
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 17: number two products. You're hearing the term modern soda a lot,

758
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:00,719
Speaker 17: and if you went into a grocery store or you

759
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:03,600
Speaker 17: know a few years ago, you might have two or

760
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:07,279
Speaker 17: three feet for this new type of soda, and now

761
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 17: you're going in and you're seeing, you know, chains like

762
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 17: Walmart expanding from two feet to eight or twelve feet.

763
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:16,239
Speaker 2: That growth of the bubbly water segment makes more attractive

764
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 2: a business that's easy to get into in the first place,

765
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:21,400
Speaker 2: a form of making it up on volume.

766
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 17: It's a great business, which is why I do it.

767
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:28,319
Speaker 17: I mean I love big categories because you know, think

768
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:30,400
Speaker 17: about it. If you're talking about ten billion dollar category,

769
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 17: you don't have to be a significant part of that

770
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:33,440
Speaker 17: to be a significant business.

771
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:37,160
Speaker 2: What is the opportunity you see for spin Drift When we.

772
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 11: Came in about a year and a half ago, was

773
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:40,560
Speaker 11: about a three hundred million dollar business. Will be close

774
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:42,840
Speaker 11: to a half a billion dollar business at the end

775
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 11: of this year, so after two years, and I think

776
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:47,400
Speaker 11: there's a clear path to a billion dollars and beyond

777
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 11: for this brand. The Sparkling beverage business is still growing

778
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:53,960
Speaker 11: twenty five to thirty percent as more people come in

779
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 11: and when they do come in, they get to try

780
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 11: our brand, which we think is better than others, and

781
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:01,399
Speaker 11: we like that. But we're also so looking at other

782
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:05,440
Speaker 11: adjacent categories we can take sort of that core equity

783
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 11: with spindriff is, which is real squeeze fruit. How do

784
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:10,799
Speaker 11: we take that real squeeze fruit and bring it to

785
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:14,520
Speaker 11: other categories. So most recently we've launched a non carbonated

786
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 11: tea product that we were really excited about. So between

787
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,799
Speaker 11: the core business of sparkling water adjacencies like tea, we've

788
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 11: also launched a soda, a healthier, better for you soda

789
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 11: product that can get us to a billion dollars.

790
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 2: It's a growing business segment, but that doesn't mean it's

791
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:33,240
Speaker 2: easy to carve out a niche for any particular product,

792
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 2: much less succeed over the long term.

793
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:38,840
Speaker 16: The concern though, is there are many out there, and

794
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 16: to try to figure out for us as investors which

795
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 16: companies are going to last and make it and really

796
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 16: created something special. We've got to really be picky about

797
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:49,440
Speaker 16: what we get behind because many can kind of get

798
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:49,880
Speaker 16: in business.

799
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 5: Now.

800
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:54,600
Speaker 16: It's also scale and get to substantial level. You know,

801
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 16: world acquire a lot more than that.

802
00:42:57,120 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 4: What about price?

803
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:01,000
Speaker 2: Where do you want your product to exist in the

804
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 2: spectrum mons price?

805
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:04,799
Speaker 11: We definitely want to exist in the high end. As

806
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:06,759
Speaker 11: we know, it's been much talked about it. We are

807
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 11: a K K shaped economy right now. We serve that

808
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:12,600
Speaker 11: upper K. We want to bring everybody in. But you

809
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:14,920
Speaker 11: want to be in the premium segment. I think you

810
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 11: want to focus on gross margin improvement, so you can

811
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 11: because that's really the oxygen of our business. So when

812
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:22,840
Speaker 11: we sell at a premium price point, we can we

813
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:25,399
Speaker 11: can improve our gross margin then reinvest growth to grow

814
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:29,480
Speaker 11: the brand. Also, interestingly, like within the health and wellness

815
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:32,600
Speaker 11: space where we play, we're seeing more and more low

816
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 11: and middle income households actually trading up to premium brands

817
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 11: when it comes to health and wellness.

818
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 2: And there are very specific ways of measuring, even day

819
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:43,480
Speaker 2: to day how successful a company is, including how it's

820
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:45,440
Speaker 2: doing in the water competition wars.

821
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 17: Velocity is how many units of your product you sell

822
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:52,640
Speaker 17: in each store each week, and I think velocity is

823
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:55,600
Speaker 17: the truest measure of success. You know, you can't bake blossoity,

824
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:58,760
Speaker 17: you can't cheat velocity. It's customers coming in and buying

825
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:00,719
Speaker 17: your product, and then they're coming back again next week

826
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:03,279
Speaker 17: and buying it again. You know, you can tell the

827
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:07,000
Speaker 17: health and success of a brand, and you know, it's

828
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:09,200
Speaker 17: like it's how we gauge new products, it's how we

829
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 17: gauge new chains. And I think it's very important for

830
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 17: brands to watch their velocity closely and make sure that

831
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 17: you know your velocity is where you want it to be,

832
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:23,280
Speaker 17: and if it's not, that you're learning why and fixing

833
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:24,440
Speaker 17: it as quickly as possible.

834
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:27,440
Speaker 11: Looking at sales, obviously, are we selling in you know,

835
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 11: to our to our retail customer, so to Walmart and

836
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:32,400
Speaker 11: to Costco and to Target and all those folks. We

837
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:34,239
Speaker 11: get a look at that every day with what those

838
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 11: with the healthy orders are building up. We also want

839
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:39,759
Speaker 11: to look at syndicated data. Right now, we only have

840
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 11: about eight percent of households that buy us during the

841
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 11: course of a year, and that's pretty low, but that's

842
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:46,680
Speaker 11: that's a good thing because that means there's a lot

843
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 11: more places we can go with this with this brand,

844
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 11: so we'll.

845
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 4: Look at that.

846
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:53,719
Speaker 11: We also look at things like trial, how many people

847
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:55,839
Speaker 11: are trying our product, and what's the repeat purchase? That's

848
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:59,479
Speaker 11: another really important one. Everybody will try anything at any

849
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:02,400
Speaker 11: given time, but the real measure is how many people

850
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:04,960
Speaker 11: come back to your product for the second time and

851
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 11: the third time. So we also look at that.

852
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:10,400
Speaker 2: It's a growing segment with an awful lot of competitors,

853
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:13,799
Speaker 2: but can it be a good investment. Wagle finds that

854
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:16,960
Speaker 2: the very factor that lowers the barriers to entry may

855
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:18,480
Speaker 2: be the key to investing.

856
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:21,880
Speaker 16: One third of what we do at Butterfly is investing

857
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 16: in consumer brands, and we think we're good at picking

858
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:27,520
Speaker 16: them and finding winners and making it work. But two

859
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 16: thirds of what we do is investing in those enablers.

860
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 16: It allows us to not have to take the brand risk,

861
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:34,719
Speaker 16: right we can just say, Okay, we're going to bet

862
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:38,640
Speaker 16: behind hydration and the flavors that go into hydration, and

863
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:40,880
Speaker 16: so let's go find a flavor company that powers all

864
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 16: these different hydration brands and we don't have to sit

865
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 16: here and determine which hydration brand is going to win.

866
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 16: So if we can go against the packaging companies that

867
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 16: supply those hydration businesses, I think it's a great idea. Flavoring, again,

868
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:57,960
Speaker 16: is a big flavors essence. Ingredients in general are another

869
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:01,239
Speaker 16: area where we play and find amazing companies that are

870
00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:04,360
Speaker 16: supplying those different sort of vendors. And then, finally, a

871
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 16: huge ecosystem that we spend a lot of time on

872
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:10,839
Speaker 16: is co manufacturing. So a lot of manufacturing has been

873
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 16: outsourced to these companies that are very professional at doing

874
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 16: it and can do it for big brands, small brands. Finally,

875
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:20,680
Speaker 16: I'd say there's also the distribution and logistics of moving

876
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:25,040
Speaker 16: these beverages around, which are really interesting players, both national

877
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:29,320
Speaker 16: distributors but also regional distributors that might specialize in certain channels.

878
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:33,359
Speaker 2: Those so called enablers may be good investments, but those

879
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:35,680
Speaker 2: at the center of the business believe there's no real

880
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 2: substitute for doing it yourself.

881
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:41,239
Speaker 11: I've always talked about how you want to start with

882
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 11: this product truth. What's the truth about your product that's

883
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:46,359
Speaker 11: really special for us? It's real squeeze fruit. It's been

884
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:49,880
Speaker 11: around since twenty ten, and it's really ridden the wave

885
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 11: of consumers gravitating toward healthier, better for you beverages that

886
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:57,200
Speaker 11: happen to be refreshing. Haven has a nice flavor profile.

887
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:02,280
Speaker 2: In most businesses, saturation is a bad thing. Success usually

888
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:05,760
Speaker 2: comes from scarcity, and when it comes to carbonated water,

889
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:09,000
Speaker 2: the fact is that many of the brands will likely fail,

890
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:12,799
Speaker 2: but those devoted to the business believe deeply that in

891
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:16,239
Speaker 2: the end, despite the odds, there's room even for all

892
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:19,920
Speaker 2: those versions on your grocery shelf, provided they have the

893
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:20,800
Speaker 2: right taste.

894
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:24,280
Speaker 11: The reality is that most things fail. You know, eighty

895
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:27,719
Speaker 11: percent of new products will fail just because being just

896
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:32,359
Speaker 11: showing up if the party doesn't make you interesting, irrelevant necessarily.

897
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:36,240
Speaker 17: Taste always comes first, because if a product doesn't taste delicious,

898
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:39,759
Speaker 17: it doesn't matter how meaningful your mission is or how

899
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:42,719
Speaker 17: important all of the backstory of your brand. If people

900
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:44,279
Speaker 17: don't love the way they taste, they're not going to

901
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 17: come back again and again to buy it.

902
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:49,439
Speaker 2: That does it for us Here at Wall Street Week,

903
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:52,360
Speaker 2: I'm David Weston. See you next week for more stories

904
00:47:52,360 --> 00:48:00,200
Speaker 2: of capitalism

905
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:02,360
Speaker 5: S