1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:02,760 Speaker 1: Before we get into today's episode, I wanted to take 2 00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:05,559 Speaker 1: a moment to address the June Supreme Court decision to 3 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:09,920 Speaker 1: overturn Roe versus Wade. Restricting access to comprehensive reproductive care, 4 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 1: including abortion care, threatens the health and independence of all Americans. 5 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:17,240 Speaker 1: This decision could also lead to the loss of other rights. 6 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 1: To learn more about what you can do to help, 7 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,279 Speaker 1: go to choice dot c r D dot c O, 8 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 1: and I encourage all of y'all to speak up, take care, 9 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:29,320 Speaker 1: and spread the word. Come in. Decency also does not 10 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:33,240 Speaker 1: exist in surveillance capitalism. Um just incause anybody's worried about 11 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 1: that if they can make money on it, they do 12 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 1: not care how evil it is, and that that is 13 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 1: a pretty universal lesson. There are No Girls on the Internet. 14 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:48,240 Speaker 1: As a production of My Heart Radio and Unboss Creative, 15 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: I'm Bridget Todd, and this is there are no Girls 16 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 1: on the Internet. By now, you probably know that last 17 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: week the Preme Court of the United States overturned Row v. Wade, 18 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:07,680 Speaker 1: the landmark decision legalizing abortion in the United States. Now, 19 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 1: I have spent most of my adult life working on 20 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: expanding and protecting abortion access, so I'm not gonna lie 21 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 1: I took it pretty hard, and even though abortion advocates 22 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:21,120 Speaker 1: and providers have been expecting this for many, many years 23 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 1: and preparing for it, it still felt like a punch 24 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:29,040 Speaker 1: to the gut. I'm angry, I'm numb, but most of all, 25 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: I am just fucking exhausted. Now, let's be clear abortion 26 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: is a technology issue because in the issue isn't so 27 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:42,480 Speaker 1: much quote back alley abortions and code hanger imagery. It's 28 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:46,280 Speaker 1: the digital surveillance and criminalization of people suspected of having 29 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 1: abortions or aiding in abortions in states where expanned. When 30 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 1: the news broke, there were a ton of questions circulating 31 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 1: around social media. Should you delete your period track or app? 32 00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: How can someone securely find that obtain abortion pills without 33 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 1: creating a digital paper trail. It's a lot to navigate, 34 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 1: and I'm not a lawyer, so this is not legal advice. 35 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 1: Nor am I a cybersecurity or digital security expert. But 36 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 1: I know somebody who is. I turned to Dr Jen Goldbeck, 37 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: professor at University of Maryland and computer scientist. I found 38 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 1: Jen on TikTok, where she's been doing a popular series 39 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 1: teaching people how to more securely access healthcare, including abortion 40 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 1: care online. So I have to start by really asking 41 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 1: this kind of grounding question, like in these very weird, 42 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 1: intense times, like how are you? How are you? I 43 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 1: know that this time must be uh intense for someone 44 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 1: with your body of work. How how are you holding up? 45 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 1: Like not great? If I'm going to be like super honest, Um, 46 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: I'm getting stuff done. It's been really nice being on 47 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:48,519 Speaker 1: sabbatical this year, um, which I think a lot of 48 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:50,080 Speaker 1: people think that means you don't have to work for 49 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 1: a year, But it's just to kind of work on 50 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 1: different stuff. But you don't have teach classes, you don't 51 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 1: have to go to all the committee meetings that you 52 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 1: normally do. So I've been writing a book and it's 53 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 1: been good to have a slightly work pace. Um. But yeah, 54 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 1: you know, I deal with a lot of bad stuff 55 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:07,080 Speaker 1: on the internet, Like that's kind of my job. And 56 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: the bad stuff, man, sure has not stopped in the 57 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 1: last couple of years. Um, so you can get a 58 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 1: little overwhelming. I'd be really happy for it not to 59 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 1: be a thing anymore. But I'm still functioning, you know, 60 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:21,919 Speaker 1: so that that account that as a win. Yeah, you 61 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,959 Speaker 1: gotta get your your w's where you can in these days, 62 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 1: I feel like for sure, So how did you come 63 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 1: like you have this? I was reading about your background 64 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 1: and it's fucking amazing. How did you come to be 65 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 1: doing this work? Like what brought you to digital security? 66 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 1: What brought you to really doing in research into the 67 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 1: way that the implications of the online tools that we 68 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 1: use every day. It's yeah, you know, so I started 69 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: um I started my pH d in two thousand one, 70 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 1: and I remember going to my advisor and being like, so, 71 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 1: social networks, that's the thing that people study in sociology. 72 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 1: What happens if we put one of those on the web? 73 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 1: And he's like, interesting ideal, Like maybe try that and 74 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: see what happens. And so my timing was like just 75 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 1: perfect for you know, at that point, it was blogging, 76 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 1: and then social media kind of emerged. So I've really 77 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 1: been studying it since it was a thing and it 78 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 1: was like it had all this promise to be really great, 79 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:20,599 Speaker 1: and I think, frankly, it's done a lot of great things, 80 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 1: especially for traditionally marginalized communities, Like we take a lot 81 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 1: of crap there, but it also has given us things 82 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:29,360 Speaker 1: that we wouldn't have in any other way. But it's 83 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:33,920 Speaker 1: also man like the dark, terrible stuff that goes on there. Um. 84 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:36,480 Speaker 1: And so you know, as a computer scientist, I'm kind 85 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: of building artificial intelligence and technology that works in that space. UM. 86 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 1: But I've always had kind of this interdisciplinary bent and 87 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:46,600 Speaker 1: the department I'm in I'm in which is called Information Studies, 88 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 1: it lets you do that. You can do whatever you 89 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 1: want there, which is amazing. And so I've I've kind 90 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:55,840 Speaker 1: of consider myself like a public anthropologists sort of of 91 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 1: like the bad Internet. So like you guys really don't 92 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 1: want to go there, but I'll go there and I'll 93 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 1: let you know the kind of stuff they're doing. And 94 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:05,280 Speaker 1: there's a lot of demand for for somebody to tell 95 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:07,840 Speaker 1: people that because the people very rightly don't want to 96 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 1: go look at it themselves. And so I kind of 97 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 1: fill that gap, like I'll endure it and then I'll 98 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:14,280 Speaker 1: tell you what it's about and then we can think 99 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 1: about that. I know that you've been doing this series 100 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 1: trying to keep give people information about how to avoid 101 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 1: being tracked online if they're trying to access an abortion. 102 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:25,479 Speaker 1: How did this come to be? Like how did you 103 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:28,360 Speaker 1: start doing this? So you know, I have never had 104 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:32,280 Speaker 1: an abortion, and I it's I've never been pregnant, right, 105 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:35,720 Speaker 1: but I have never wanted kids, and so it has 106 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:37,920 Speaker 1: been a thing my whole life that I've been grateful 107 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 1: to know was an option. Um, Like I was. I 108 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 1: was clear from the time I was six years old. 109 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 1: I thought, you just got pregnant, like you got a cold, 110 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 1: Like you just woke up one day, you had like 111 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 1: a big belly and you And I remember telling my 112 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:50,599 Speaker 1: mom like it's six, Like God, I hope that never 113 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:54,039 Speaker 1: happens to me, right, Like never a doubt in my 114 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 1: mind that I didn't want kids. And so you know, obviously, 115 00:05:57,240 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: like I've always been very careful, but I have always 116 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:01,920 Speaker 1: known that like if I ended up pregnant, like I 117 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 1: was not gonna stay pregnant. Um. You know, eventually, after 118 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 1: about ten years of harassment, managed to get a doctor 119 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 1: to tie my tubes for me. That's a whole other conversation. Um. 120 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:16,480 Speaker 1: So it's not a thing that I personally worry about, 121 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 1: but I am like so aware of, like how important 122 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 1: for my whole life it has been knowing that I 123 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 1: would have access to that if I wanted it. Um, 124 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 1: And knowing all I mean, I know and we all 125 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: do whether we know it or not. I know a 126 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 1: ton of women who have had abortions and a ton 127 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:35,840 Speaker 1: of men who have been with women who have had abortions, 128 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:40,159 Speaker 1: and like how important that is? And uh yeah, like 129 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:42,840 Speaker 1: you're really good at getting my rage up today, Like 130 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 1: let it. I mean, it's a raging topic. It is, 131 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 1: it is. I'm right there with you. It is a 132 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:50,159 Speaker 1: rag topic. I think a thing like that has built 133 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:54,279 Speaker 1: up over the last two years. Well more right, I 134 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:57,600 Speaker 1: mean we have like Trump and then we have COVID, 135 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 1: and then we have the election in the insurrect action, 136 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 1: like all of this stuff that's been happening Q and 137 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 1: on right, which has been a big presence in my life. 138 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:09,160 Speaker 1: It's like there's I do what I can do, which 139 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: is to sort of bring some light into spaces where 140 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 1: people might be confused. But I feel very powerless to 141 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 1: kind of fix what I see as like such a 142 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:21,240 Speaker 1: big problem, big complicated, festering problem. And this was like 143 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 1: another one of those things like I can't believe, like 144 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 1: this is like yet another thing in this string of 145 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 1: awful stuff. What can I do? Well? The one thing 146 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 1: that I can do is that, like you can get 147 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 1: an abortion in a lot of a lot of the 148 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 1: cases where women need them. You can do it with medication. 149 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 1: You can do it safely. That is easily accessible online, 150 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 1: Like you can go online, you can buy it and 151 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 1: they will send it to your house, no problem, right, 152 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 1: no matter what state you're in, they'll ship it to 153 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 1: you from another country. You can get it. And so 154 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 1: then the concern becomes, well, how are they going to 155 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 1: track this? And like we all know to be worried 156 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 1: about that now, but not exactly how it's working. And 157 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 1: when I do these videos on TikTok talking about this stuff, 158 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 1: I get a lot of kind of like bros honestly 159 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 1: in the comments, going like, well, if you just use 160 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 1: a VPN, it's not going to be a problem, and like, 161 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 1: I'm all for a VPN, right, Like that will encrypt 162 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 1: the traffic coming out of your computer, so it's less 163 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 1: likely to get snooped on. But it does not solve 164 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 1: any of these problems of like capitalist surveillance, digital tracking, 165 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 1: all of this, And so people sometimes think like, oh, 166 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: I know there's one thing to do, right, I'll use 167 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: incognito mode on my browser. I'll use a VPN and 168 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: that will protect me and it won't. So I want 169 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 1: to talk you through here's the entirety of this process. 170 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: If you were to go buy abortion medication and get 171 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 1: it shipped to you, and here's what you have to 172 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 1: do for every single one of those ways they're going 173 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:38,559 Speaker 1: to track you. There's protections that you can take in 174 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 1: every one of those steps to actually get access to that. So, um, 175 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:44,599 Speaker 1: it's it's a way that makes me feel like a 176 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:47,080 Speaker 1: little bit of control over what's going on, at least 177 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 1: helping people know that, Like, if you're going to go 178 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 1: that route to buy medication online to have an abortion, 179 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:55,960 Speaker 1: here's the steps that you can take to be really protected. Yeah, 180 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 1: I mean you you mentioned the response that you got 181 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 1: from like broby types is something I've sort of been 182 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 1: wrestling with. Um. I have noticed, this is just my 183 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 1: anecdotal opinion whatever. I have noticed that the surveillance and 184 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: like digital security space for the last ten years has 185 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:15,079 Speaker 1: been a little bit I guess browy for the lack 186 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:18,080 Speaker 1: of for lack of a better phrase, and I guess 187 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 1: we're in this moment where it's so clear to me, Oh, 188 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 1: it's always been the case, but in this moment in particular, 189 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 1: it's so clear to me how important digital security and 190 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:31,079 Speaker 1: issues are for women, for non binary people, for people 191 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:35,959 Speaker 1: who are traditionally marginalized. So who are not you know, bros? Um, 192 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 1: when we think about surveillance, I guess, how do we 193 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 1: make sure that that doesn't get lost, that the issue 194 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:44,079 Speaker 1: doesn't does it become like, oh, the face of digital 195 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 1: security is like a white dude. How can we get 196 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 1: to a place where we can have a more honest 197 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 1: understanding of what is at stake for who when it 198 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 1: comes to digital security and things like us being tracked online? Yeah, 199 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 1: I mean I think you nailed a really important point there. 200 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 1: It's like the bros are not at risk in the 201 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:07,440 Speaker 1: same way that women are, that people of color are, 202 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:10,080 Speaker 1: say trans people now right, I mean they're having all 203 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:14,319 Speaker 1: of their own big legal issues with with access to healthcare. 204 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 1: It's not the bros that are having those problems. And 205 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 1: there's a really interesting dynamic here that I've seen kind 206 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 1: of before. These social issues, say over the last two 207 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 1: or three years, have brought this to the forefront. But 208 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 1: when I would just talk about security and privacy in general, 209 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:32,320 Speaker 1: you get a response that's like, well, what you just 210 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:35,560 Speaker 1: said isn't a perfect solution, right. So, when I was 211 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 1: one of the first videos I did about abortion is like, hey, 212 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 1: if you're gonna search for like abortion related stuff online, 213 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: use incognito mode in your browser at least. And then 214 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 1: I'm like, you can use the tour browser that pretends 215 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 1: to prevents you from getting tracked, but at least use 216 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 1: incognito mode. Now, all incognito mode does is delete your 217 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 1: search history when you close the window. That is the 218 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 1: entirety of the protection you get. So it's very insecure 219 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:05,079 Speaker 1: or but we've seen women already be arrested and charged 220 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:09,080 Speaker 1: with murder when they have miscarriages because they searched for 221 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:11,440 Speaker 1: abortion related stuff at some point, and that's just the 222 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:13,679 Speaker 1: cops taking their computer and looking at their search history 223 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 1: and it's in there, So like, don't keep your search history. 224 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 1: It's a thing that's going to get you some percentage 225 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 1: of safety. And I do that video and they're like, well, 226 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 1: you know, incognito mode, like it doesn't do this, and 227 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:23,680 Speaker 1: it doesn't do this, and it's not a perfect solution. 228 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:27,079 Speaker 1: It's like yeah, man, like I know, but that doesn't 229 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 1: mean don't do things. And this is a thing I 230 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 1: think a lot of security bros get really caught up on, 231 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:35,560 Speaker 1: is like you don't have a perfect solution, like I 232 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 1: can find ways that that thing is insecure, and so 233 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 1: you're dumb and bad and wrong and I'm smarter than you. 234 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 1: They don't actually come with another solution or like a 235 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 1: thing that makes it better. They just want to have 236 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:49,079 Speaker 1: that little power place of like let me explain to you, well, 237 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:52,439 Speaker 1: you're wrong about this and and and that I feel 238 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: is the real problem where it's like they don't face 239 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 1: the same issues that we do, whatever those issues are, 240 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 1: whatever group you're part of, they're kind of safe. It's 241 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:04,319 Speaker 1: really easy to come from a place of like, well 242 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 1: you suck and you're wrong and I'm smarter than you, 243 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 1: and not bring any solutions with that. And I think 244 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:11,680 Speaker 1: that's sort of what we're dealing with. And frankly that 245 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 1: we see a lot online is like they're kind of 246 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 1: used to being in this position of power, and so 247 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 1: women come along, people of color come along, trans people 248 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:20,600 Speaker 1: come along, and go, here's the thing that we can 249 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 1: do to stay safer. They want to kind of reclaim 250 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 1: that position of power and be like that's not right, 251 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:28,200 Speaker 1: Like I know better than you, guys. I see that 252 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: kind of power dynamic, which we've seen so many times 253 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 1: with so many things online just kind of playing out 254 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:35,559 Speaker 1: in the security space as well. I think for a 255 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:39,200 Speaker 1: lot of them it's like theoretical, and for us it 256 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:44,199 Speaker 1: is not theoretical. It is very real world for sure. 257 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 1: Not everyone is a digital security expert. In fact, the 258 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:51,920 Speaker 1: people who most need practical advice on how you can 259 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 1: more securely access abortion online are folks who might not 260 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: necessarily consider themselves techys. This is why Jen keeps accessibility 261 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 1: the forefront of her work. She wants to make sure 262 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:05,199 Speaker 1: that the tips and tools that she highlights are accessible 263 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 1: enough to actually be helpful for the folks who need 264 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 1: the most. Going back to what you were saying about 265 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:13,320 Speaker 1: how sometimes you get these growing people responding to you 266 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:15,440 Speaker 1: about like, oh, you're wrong about this, You're not doing 267 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 1: that perfectly. I think it's really tricky because the the 268 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 1: audience that you're speaking to, for the most part, they're 269 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 1: not going to be digital security experts or tech experts. 270 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 1: There are people who are looking to access abortion right 271 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 1: and so you kind of have to walk this line 272 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 1: of making sure that your tips are accessible for people 273 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: who need them, and those people, by and large, I'm sorry, 274 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 1: are not people who are going to you know already 275 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 1: be showing up a level of tech expertise, and so 276 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:46,080 Speaker 1: coming from a place of like, oh, it has to 277 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:49,080 Speaker 1: be perfect to even be you know, something that you 278 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 1: put out into the world. Again, I just feel like 279 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:54,439 Speaker 1: it doesn't reflect where we're actually at, Like, like, how 280 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:56,319 Speaker 1: do you how do you balance making sure that the 281 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 1: tips that you give are actually going to be accessible 282 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 1: for the folks who need them. Yeah, you know, so 283 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:04,440 Speaker 1: there's there is a nearly perfect way that you could 284 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 1: buy abortion medication and not be tracked. You take a 285 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 1: whole bunch of cash, you go buy a burner phone, 286 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 1: you use it on public WiFi, you use the tour browser, 287 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 1: You use cash to buy gift cards that you use 288 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:16,960 Speaker 1: to pay for the medication you have it shipped to. 289 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 1: This is kind of the big question. Mark someplace that's 290 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: not you and pick it up from there and there's 291 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 1: no digital trace of you. So great one that's super 292 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 1: hard to it's very expensive, right, that's not accessible. I 293 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 1: mean if I I think, like if I were like 294 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 1: seventeen and needed an abortion and didn't want to tell 295 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 1: my parents about it, right, I mean, I think that's 296 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 1: part of the audience I'm reaching On TikTok. They're not 297 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 1: going to use a bunch of cash to go buy 298 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 1: a burner phone and use publicly and like all use 299 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 1: the tour browser, right Like, that's not what they're gonna do. 300 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 1: And the fact is, like, you know, if we have 301 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 1: like big government agency right like there's an n s A, 302 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 1: FBI ci A task force coming to get you, man, 303 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 1: there's nothing you can do right there, they're going to 304 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 1: figure this out. But the fact is they're not going 305 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 1: to be going like, oh, abortion medication was like purchased 306 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 1: by somebody on the Panera WiFi at this time, So 307 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 1: let's go get the security footage like some ci cs 308 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 1: I nonsense, Like that's not most of what we're dealing with. 309 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:19,160 Speaker 1: It's like your neighbor found out you got an abortion 310 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 1: and they're gonna do the Texas civil suit thing to 311 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 1: get there ten thousand dollars and turn you in. What's 312 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:27,840 Speaker 1: gonna make it easier? Um, So I like to give 313 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 1: you know solutions, what's gonna get you more protection? Like 314 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 1: delete that search history. It's gonna help. Is it perfect? No? 315 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 1: But if you do that and you know you use 316 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 1: a gift card to buy it, and you don't take 317 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 1: your phone, if you're going to like planned parenthood, so 318 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 1: you can't get tracked, like we know people are tracking that. Like, 319 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: these are all really simple steps that anybody can do. 320 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:52,480 Speaker 1: They don't cost you a lot of money. It's just 321 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 1: kind of changing your habits and being aware. And I 322 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 1: think having that like one, people are more likely to 323 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 1: do it. It's accessible to more people, and it's going 324 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 1: to give a good amount of protection, even if it's 325 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 1: not perfect. Nobody like the perfect solutions stupid and hard 326 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 1: and nobody wants it. Yeah, otherwise we'd be doing it 327 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 1: already with everything. Yeah, exactly. You know. One of the 328 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 1: tips that you give that I love is that, Um, 329 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 1: you know, if people don't have the abilities you're like, 330 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 1: go buy a burner phone. If you don't, if you 331 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 1: can't buy a burner phone, go to a library. And 332 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 1: you talk about how public libraries are the bastion of 333 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 1: privacy protection. Can you tell us so I love that, 334 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 1: um shout out to librarians. Can you tell us more 335 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 1: about that? Yeah? I mean if you go back to 336 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 1: like the George W. Bush administration. Um, so we're looking 337 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: like post nine eleven. I think one of the nine 338 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 1: eleven hijackers may have looked something up in a library 339 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 1: ones or or at least part of this whole terrorism 340 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 1: panic around then was like, oh, people in libraries are 341 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 1: gonna be doing terrorism there, so we want to be 342 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 1: able to access all the books that people have checked out. 343 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 1: Like I'm worried about Jen doing a terrorism I want 344 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 1: to see everything that she's checked out and everything that 345 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 1: she's done. And the librarians were like, no, we're not 346 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 1: doing that. If we have to throw away all of 347 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 1: our records of books that people have checked out, we 348 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 1: will do that before we'll turn them over. And I 349 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 1: think that George W. Bush quote was radical militant librarians, right. 350 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 1: Um so this, you know, we can kind of go 351 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 1: back to then and librarians are like no, like people 352 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:22,720 Speaker 1: should just be able to come here and get information, 353 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:25,320 Speaker 1: like that's their job. I mean the department that I'm 354 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 1: in information studies at Maryland we have the Library Science program, 355 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 1: so professional librarians among other professionals, come out of our school. 356 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:35,880 Speaker 1: They're very committed to helping people find the information they 357 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:39,199 Speaker 1: want and giving them protection for that. Um. So, like, 358 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 1: on one hand, your librarian is likely not going to 359 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:44,200 Speaker 1: be a digital security expert who will be able to 360 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 1: track you talk you through how to prevent being tracked. 361 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:50,240 Speaker 1: But on a lot of those computers, for all sorts 362 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 1: of reasons, they'll like automatically delete your search history, and 363 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:55,879 Speaker 1: they're not gonna collect a lot of information about you 364 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:58,639 Speaker 1: because you know, if you go on the library computer 365 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:00,919 Speaker 1: before me, they don't want me looking through all of 366 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:03,160 Speaker 1: your history, right, there's a good reason to keep that private, 367 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 1: And they have this history of not turning over that 368 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 1: information and in fact having a lot of legal protection 369 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:12,200 Speaker 1: from turning that information over to the government. And so 370 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 1: while they're not going to give you a necessarily a 371 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 1: ton of great advice on like how to keep your 372 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 1: phone from being tracked, they will show you how to 373 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 1: access information and use the Internet in a way that's 374 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 1: likely to be safe for you. Um, and it's free 375 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 1: and it's a great resource. And librarians love helping people 376 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 1: find information. So you know, always your mileage may very 377 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:35,080 Speaker 1: be cautious about if you're telling them you're searching for 378 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 1: abortion related information, depending on where you are right but 379 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 1: if you just want to private search oneto, they absolutely 380 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 1: should be able to help you set that up. That's 381 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:46,360 Speaker 1: good advice. I I love librarians. It's like every time 382 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:49,399 Speaker 1: I hear more about the times of public resources that 383 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 1: they offer to the community. It's like, we need to 384 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 1: be talking more about the amazing resource that we have 385 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:58,119 Speaker 1: available to us in public libraries. Yeah, like they need 386 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:00,680 Speaker 1: a master's degree to be a library in and if 387 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 1: if you were experienced with librarians is only like it's 388 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 1: where I checked out books as a kid, and then 389 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:06,239 Speaker 1: I returned the books. You go, like, what do they 390 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:08,960 Speaker 1: need a master's degree for? But it's because they have 391 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 1: all this expertise on lots of other topics, many of 392 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 1: which are related to kind of community relations in management, 393 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 1: because it's a big part of their life. Let's take 394 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 1: a quick break that are. Back in the wake of 395 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,679 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court striking down ROW, I heard lots of 396 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:39,640 Speaker 1: well meaning people say things like, well, don't worry because 397 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:43,480 Speaker 1: we've been here before. But that's not actually true because 398 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:45,920 Speaker 1: the last time abortion was illegal in the United States, 399 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 1: in the days before Row became the law of the 400 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:52,400 Speaker 1: land in ninete, we did not have the vast infrastructure 401 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 1: of digital surveillance, tracking, and data sharing and selling like 402 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 1: we do now. We didn't all carry GPS devices in 403 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:02,840 Speaker 1: our pockets, we did not all create digital paper trails 404 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 1: of all the information we've ever accessed, and we certainly 405 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 1: didn't have companies selling and sharing that information with third parties, 406 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:13,879 Speaker 1: including law enforcement. We did not create digital logs of 407 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 1: the most sensitive information about our bodies, like our periods, 408 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:19,040 Speaker 1: onto apps who then go on to share it with 409 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:23,200 Speaker 1: God knows who. For instance, the popular period tracking app 410 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:26,920 Speaker 1: flow based a lawsuit last year for sharing people's personal information, 411 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 1: including quote intimate details about sexual health and menstrual cycles, 412 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:35,160 Speaker 1: with third parties like Facebook and Google, despite public assurances 413 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:37,960 Speaker 1: that it would not and they did this because data 414 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:40,960 Speaker 1: is quote vital to their business, according to the lawsuit. 415 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 1: Add in laws like s b E in Texas that 416 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 1: deputized ordinary citizens to turn in anyone they suspect of 417 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:50,880 Speaker 1: having an abortion or aiding and a betting an abortion 418 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 1: for a ten dollar reward, and you can serve to 419 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:56,359 Speaker 1: see the scope of the situation that we're currently facing. 420 00:20:57,119 --> 00:20:58,760 Speaker 1: So I want to set the stage a little bit. 421 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:00,879 Speaker 1: I feel like there's probably people listening who were like, 422 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 1: this is I'm learning a lot about the state of 423 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:08,680 Speaker 1: play as it pertains to digital security and what is 424 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:11,239 Speaker 1: really at stake with the information that I, you know, 425 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 1: put on the internet. And that technology has about me. 426 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:16,920 Speaker 1: And so people, you know, you might I guess that 427 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,240 Speaker 1: you might be thinking like things like when we have 428 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:22,119 Speaker 1: our periods and you know, the goings on of our 429 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 1: of our reproductive health, that's probably like protected by HIPPA 430 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 1: or like common decency, right, But that is not the case. 431 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:33,880 Speaker 1: So so what is the reality around you know, our 432 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 1: information and how it can be accessed and perhaps used 433 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:42,399 Speaker 1: against us? Yeah, so so HIPPA has really gotten a 434 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:45,719 Speaker 1: lot of attention between like COVID and vaccines and and 435 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:48,119 Speaker 1: certainly now at this So HIPPA is a law that 436 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 1: just provides, just applies to your health care providers. So 437 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:56,720 Speaker 1: your doctor's office, your pharmacy, they're not allowed to give 438 00:21:56,760 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 1: away your records. Um that said into ingle. So my dog, 439 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 1: I have a bunch of rescue golden retrievers um that 440 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:06,719 Speaker 1: have a variety of issues. And one of my tax 441 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,399 Speaker 1: is very serious anxiety and he's on prozac. So it 442 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:12,480 Speaker 1: takes prozac every day. And uh, he's on my like 443 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:16,640 Speaker 1: CBS family account, and I got a text from CBS like, hey, 444 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 1: Chief Brody, just you know May is National Mental Health 445 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:24,200 Speaker 1: Awareness Month, and it's like they're sending kind of marketing 446 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 1: emails or text to my dog because he's on an 447 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:32,360 Speaker 1: antidepressant UM, which you know sort of shows like they're 448 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:34,280 Speaker 1: you know, they're following hippo rules for the dog even 449 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:36,399 Speaker 1: if they don't have to. But they can still use 450 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:40,439 Speaker 1: it internally for things, right, So hippa, it's not It 451 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 1: doesn't have anything to do with privacy. Really. It has 452 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 1: to do with how your medical records are sent around 453 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 1: and that they can't be released. You do get some 454 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:49,679 Speaker 1: privacy from that, but not anything relating to apps, the 455 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 1: internet people, just your doctor and your pharmacy basically, So 456 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:58,720 Speaker 1: ignore hippa. It doesn't apply to anything that we're worried about. Essentially, um, 457 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,680 Speaker 1: common decency all so does not exist in surveillance capitalism. UM, 458 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:04,719 Speaker 1: Just in case anybody's worried about that, if they can 459 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:06,919 Speaker 1: make money on it, they do not care how evil 460 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,720 Speaker 1: it is, and that that is a pretty universal lesson. 461 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 1: I am an optimist and I keep going, yeah, but 462 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 1: they wouldn't do that, and like, yeah, they totally would. 463 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,879 Speaker 1: They are they have been for ten years. Like, um, 464 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:18,680 Speaker 1: you're just not going to get a lot of protection. 465 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:22,119 Speaker 1: What we've seen with like period tracking apps, UM, is 466 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 1: that a lot of them were sharing information, and they 467 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:27,920 Speaker 1: do it in a variety of ways. So some full 468 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 1: on released your period data and your health data to 469 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 1: Facebook and Google. They got in big trouble for doing that, 470 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: So that can totally happen. Um, some of it is 471 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 1: is a little more passive, right, So they might use 472 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:45,240 Speaker 1: a third party to do like analytics. So I want 473 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:48,400 Speaker 1: to know, like, does Jen come to the app other 474 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:52,200 Speaker 1: than when she's logging her symptoms or her cycle info? 475 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 1: So do I come to it in the middle of 476 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,119 Speaker 1: the month and look for anything? Do I use it 477 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 1: for anything other than just like putting stuff in? So 478 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:00,920 Speaker 1: that could be interesting them to know, and it may 479 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 1: help them develop new features or you know, decide things. 480 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:07,639 Speaker 1: But writing code to do those sorts of analytics is 481 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:10,920 Speaker 1: pretty heavy duty. There's plenty of third parties who will 482 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 1: do it for you, So they might partner with a 483 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 1: third party to do analytics, but that third party the 484 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:18,919 Speaker 1: necessarily gets access to some of their data. So it 485 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 1: might not be every single thing that I've logged in 486 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:23,359 Speaker 1: the app, but there's a lot that they can infer. 487 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:25,240 Speaker 1: There's a lot that they're going to collect and save, 488 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:27,639 Speaker 1: and so your information can be leaking out in ways 489 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:31,400 Speaker 1: that even the app may not necessarily intend. And those 490 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 1: analytics parties absolutely could use it for marketing, right, they 491 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:37,760 Speaker 1: may show ads in the app to help pay for it. 492 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:39,240 Speaker 1: So it's a free app, but we'll show you like 493 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:41,359 Speaker 1: little banner ads at the bottom. It might be coming 494 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 1: from there. So there's a ton of ways that um, 495 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:48,400 Speaker 1: even not being hacked, which is the thing we could 496 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 1: talk about. UM, your data can get shared with third 497 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 1: parties by those apps. And if we're looking then at 498 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:58,040 Speaker 1: places like Texas, for example, where there's a ten dollar 499 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,440 Speaker 1: incentive for me to find out anybody who gotten abortion. 500 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 1: That's data that it would be really interesting for me 501 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 1: as an evil person to try to find a way 502 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,440 Speaker 1: to track down through data brokers online advertisers that maybe 503 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 1: incorporating it into their background. Wow. I'm so glad that 504 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:18,119 Speaker 1: you brought up the like quote like bounty hunter policies 505 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:20,919 Speaker 1: and states like Texas, because I do think that highlights 506 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 1: the just the real world stakes of what we're talking 507 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 1: about and how important it is that we really understand 508 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:33,879 Speaker 1: what we're doing when we give in for what we 509 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 1: might be doing when we give our information to these apps. 510 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:38,159 Speaker 1: I guess this, I mean I don't know. Maybe this 511 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,119 Speaker 1: is too black and white of a question, but what 512 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 1: do you say that people in the wake of row v. 513 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 1: Wade being struck down. Should folks be thinking about the 514 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,320 Speaker 1: leading period tracker apps? Should they be like is that 515 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 1: is that too like black and white or simplistic of 516 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 1: a way to even be framing it? Or what do 517 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:56,439 Speaker 1: you think? I mean, I think it's a really useful framing. Um, 518 00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 1: whether or not you do you know, it's going to 519 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,879 Speaker 1: depend on frankly, where you are, what kind of support 520 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:07,280 Speaker 1: you have, um, what level of worry you have? Right? So, uh, 521 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 1: you know, I mentioned I had my tubes tile, so 522 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna get pregnant. I guess it could fail. 523 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:15,199 Speaker 1: And if I got pregnant, um Man, I'm like a 524 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,680 Speaker 1: well off white woman, right, I could go to Canada. 525 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 1: If I couldn't get an abortion in the US, I 526 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,200 Speaker 1: could go to Canada. I know how to cover my tracks. 527 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:25,359 Speaker 1: I mean, I have all the resources and privilege and 528 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 1: money necessary to get an abortion if I wanted one. Um, 529 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 1: if I were in a kind of rural, really Bible 530 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 1: belty anti abortion place, and I'm a younger woman without 531 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 1: a lot of financial resources, so I couldn't travel by 532 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,199 Speaker 1: myself to a state that could do an abortion for me. 533 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,399 Speaker 1: Maybe I'm too young, I don't have the money for it. 534 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,400 Speaker 1: My parents would catch me that kind of thing. Um, 535 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 1: And you know that people around you are really excited 536 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,919 Speaker 1: about bounty hunting people who get abortions, then yeah, like 537 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,639 Speaker 1: maybe start tracking that on paper like I did in 538 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 1: high school. I have little red dots in my planner. Um. Yeah, 539 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:05,360 Speaker 1: you know, I don't think it's gonna be the main 540 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,880 Speaker 1: place people go to. You always can lie right, like, oh, yes, 541 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 1: I did have my period last month, and you just 542 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:12,960 Speaker 1: find however many days and you plunk it in there 543 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: and you've got a record that that makes it look 544 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,440 Speaker 1: like you weren't pregnant even if you were. Um. But 545 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 1: you know, if you're worried about people like checking in 546 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,040 Speaker 1: on that, right, somebody gets ahold of your phone, are 547 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 1: they gonna go look at it to see when you 548 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,119 Speaker 1: had your last period. I don't think it's a bad idea. 549 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,719 Speaker 1: And look, generally, I think everyone should be wary about 550 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 1: logging any kind of personal information like this in any app, 551 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 1: even if there's not a law that would get in 552 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,800 Speaker 1: the way of your health care, because it's almost always 553 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:44,400 Speaker 1: going to be monetized and sold to advertisers. I mean, 554 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 1: you earlier today or earlier, I think it was this week, 555 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:49,159 Speaker 1: you were posting on TikTok about elevated access. You know, 556 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 1: the pilots who you know, will they take donations and 557 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:55,960 Speaker 1: they'll fly people every all of the like, like all 558 00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 1: everywhere in the United States other than Alaska and Hawaii 559 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:01,760 Speaker 1: to get abortions like a portion care or gender affirming care. 560 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:03,919 Speaker 1: What do you make of the fact that we're in 561 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 1: this place where we have to have pilots taking donations 562 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,159 Speaker 1: to shuttle people to get healthcare, where we have to 563 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,639 Speaker 1: be deleting our period tracker apps, you know, so we 564 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,639 Speaker 1: don't get criminalized for abortion care. Like, what do you 565 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:19,000 Speaker 1: make of the fact that we're in this place where 566 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,880 Speaker 1: these kinds of things they sound so wild, but they 567 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,719 Speaker 1: are very necessary. Yeah, I mean I have kind of 568 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,960 Speaker 1: the pessimistic view and the optimistic view together. So the 569 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,879 Speaker 1: pessimistic view is that, um, this this seems to me 570 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 1: a pretty linear path towards authoritarianism that started in right. Um, 571 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 1: we certainly saw this with like the rise of Trump 572 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 1: and his rallies and and chance for people to be 573 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 1: arrested and chance to you know, take people down and 574 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:53,280 Speaker 1: physical violence in those spaces. And we saw steady increases 575 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:56,239 Speaker 1: in that and kind of normalization of that kind of 576 00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,160 Speaker 1: hate and language and violence over the course of the 577 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 1: Trump administration. Um, and this kind of other ring, right, 578 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,480 Speaker 1: and we're seeing it, you know where we wait. I mean, 579 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:08,800 Speaker 1: this has been a very long battle for the anti 580 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 1: abortion camp. So I don't like they maybe are in 581 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 1: a position to achieve it now, um, but they've been 582 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 1: trying to do that for a long time. Do you 583 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:18,720 Speaker 1: especially look at like right now, like the anti trans 584 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 1: and anti gay measures. You know, I'm in Florida, um Man. 585 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 1: Stuff is a nightmare here right, um, where you know 586 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 1: you're having like gay teachers quitting their jobs because they're 587 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,239 Speaker 1: not even allowed, Like students found out that they were 588 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 1: married to somebody of the same gender and and they're like, 589 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 1: so I'm going to get fired for that, right. I mean, 590 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:41,920 Speaker 1: that's happening in Florida now, that kind of mothering, Right, 591 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 1: who is the enemy and and let's start doing stuff 592 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:50,239 Speaker 1: against them? I mean it's such textbook authoritarianism, and and 593 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 1: so we've really seen I think a ramping up of 594 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 1: that not that things were great for women seeking abortions, 595 00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:00,160 Speaker 1: or trans people or gay people. But we've seen progress, right, 596 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 1: and things have kind of been progressing, and now we've 597 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 1: seen a really aggressive backlash that and some success with 598 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 1: that backlash. Um, so that's really upsetting, But I'm not surprised. 599 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 1: I mean, it seems like a path that we have 600 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:15,920 Speaker 1: been on, you know, for the better part of the 601 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 1: last decade, and hopefully we get out of that. But 602 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 1: I don't know, right. I mean, I think the next 603 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,240 Speaker 1: couple of elections, the midterms, in the next presidential election, 604 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:26,960 Speaker 1: maybe we'll give us an insight of how much staying 605 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 1: power that has. The optimistic side that I have is 606 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:32,400 Speaker 1: man or a lot of people trying to do something 607 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 1: about it. So the elevated access, I mean, these pilots 608 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 1: getting together, Like how awesome is it that there's this 609 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 1: like network of pilots that are like, we will pick 610 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 1: you up in Texas if you need gender firming care, 611 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 1: and we will take you to Colorado and you can 612 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 1: get it there. You need an abortion, like we'll come 613 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 1: get you. Somebody else will pay for it, and we'll 614 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 1: take you somewhere. Um. You know, my TikTok series is 615 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 1: a little cheap free thing. But it's like I've spent 616 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:57,720 Speaker 1: two decades building this knowledge and I'm gonna drop it 617 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:00,320 Speaker 1: to you in one minute segments for as long as 618 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 1: I have to to kind of protect that. And there's 619 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,080 Speaker 1: great resources, you know in the abortion space that are like, 620 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:07,960 Speaker 1: tell us what state you're in, We're going to tell 621 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,480 Speaker 1: you how you can get abortion medication or see a provider. Well, 622 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 1: here's what your legal options are. And if we have 623 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 1: to send you to a pharmacy in India, we have 624 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 1: vetted them. We know that it's trustworthy. There's a lot 625 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,080 Speaker 1: of people. I mean, first, the majority of people want 626 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 1: abortion access to be a thing right, and a lot 627 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,160 Speaker 1: of people are willing to take action. And frankly, this 628 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 1: is another great thing that I see from social media 629 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,560 Speaker 1: is it allows us to kind of organize those movements 630 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:33,719 Speaker 1: nationwide from people who are like sitting at home and 631 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 1: just want to help. Um. So I'm optimistic in that 632 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 1: space that there's gonna be a lot of people working 633 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:43,080 Speaker 1: at the grassroots level to fight this kind of legal 634 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:46,360 Speaker 1: authoritarianism that you know, I'm I hope we see our 635 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:47,880 Speaker 1: way out of but I think it's gonna be a 636 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:50,520 Speaker 1: little while oh my god. I mean, I have been 637 00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 1: in the like abortion space for a long time, and 638 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,080 Speaker 1: it's truly the only thing that gives me hope is 639 00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 1: that the space of abortion provider, abortion advocates and their allies. 640 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 1: It is such a dynamic, a space filled with dynamic, 641 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,960 Speaker 1: creative people who want to fucking help. And you know, 642 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:13,000 Speaker 1: I hear things all the time where it will be like, oh, 643 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:16,760 Speaker 1: a bunch of teens in Texas took down the bounty 644 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:20,600 Speaker 1: Hunter tipline website, you know, by organizing on TikTok. Like, 645 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,280 Speaker 1: I'll hear these things and it's like, as I don't know, 646 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:25,400 Speaker 1: I don't have a lot of faith in our elected 647 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:28,760 Speaker 1: officials to have our back, but I I believe in us, 648 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 1: like I believe in you know, uh, the power of 649 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:36,200 Speaker 1: the people who care, and we're the majority. Like I'm 650 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:37,720 Speaker 1: so glad that you brought that up. I think for 651 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:44,240 Speaker 1: so long we've allowed anti we've about anti abortion folks 652 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 1: to set the narrative of what we how we talk 653 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:50,600 Speaker 1: about abortion. And the reality is eighty percent of Americans 654 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:54,400 Speaker 1: support abortion access and wanted to be protected, and so 655 00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 1: people who are outside out of step with that, they 656 00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,240 Speaker 1: are the extremists and there's not too there's not both 657 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 1: sides to it. There's not two sides about it. We 658 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,160 Speaker 1: need to make sure that we're making that very clear. 659 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 1: And we talk about abortion that the majority of the 660 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:08,840 Speaker 1: of the country, there's not a pocket anywhere where the 661 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,520 Speaker 1: majority of people are against abortion access. It is. It 662 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,720 Speaker 1: is popular, we all and we've decided. And so people 663 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:16,720 Speaker 1: who are fighting against it, they are the ones that 664 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:20,200 Speaker 1: that are the extremists, not us. I also obviously am 665 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,760 Speaker 1: like a huge supporter of abortion access. And what we've 666 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:25,680 Speaker 1: sort of seen in the last few weeks, right since 667 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:28,640 Speaker 1: we got this leak decision, is one states where abortion 668 00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,720 Speaker 1: is is already legal and not really threatened, are making 669 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:34,040 Speaker 1: it easier to get an abortion right. So we've actually 670 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 1: seen a liberalizing of abortion access in those states, which 671 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,720 Speaker 1: I think is awesome. Um. The other thing that we're seeing, 672 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:43,080 Speaker 1: you know, on one hand, you look at like Oklahoma, right, 673 00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:47,280 Speaker 1: so they just passed this bill today yesterday, UM, defining 674 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:52,880 Speaker 1: like human life at fertilization. Uh, and I mean ghoulish 675 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:58,360 Speaker 1: right is absolutely unscientific. Nobody understands the implications of what 676 00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:01,040 Speaker 1: they've just done. And I people are going to start 677 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:02,880 Speaker 1: to see it because those of us who are in 678 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 1: favor of not just abortion excess, but like women's health 679 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:10,400 Speaker 1: care access go so no more IVF then, for example 680 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,440 Speaker 1: in Oklahoma, um so, man, even if you're against abortion 681 00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:16,080 Speaker 1: and you want to have a family, if you do IVF, well, 682 00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 1: all those frozen embryos that you haven't used, what are 683 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,200 Speaker 1: you gonna do about them? Because those are now human 684 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:23,560 Speaker 1: lives that you're in charge of. Um And even the 685 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,920 Speaker 1: people who think there should be limits on abortion, the 686 00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:31,720 Speaker 1: percentage who think a topic pregnancies should not be allowed 687 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:33,680 Speaker 1: to be aborted, they have to try to move that 688 00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:38,040 Speaker 1: inviable like ball of cells into the units where it 689 00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:40,600 Speaker 1: never can implant that you have to do that extra 690 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:44,000 Speaker 1: medical procedure. No. I mean, the number of people who 691 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:47,640 Speaker 1: think that's a good idea are just infintesimal. And yet 692 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:50,120 Speaker 1: we're seeing it legislatively. And so the hope is that 693 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:52,279 Speaker 1: what this will do is really open the eyes of 694 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:54,799 Speaker 1: a lot of people too. It's not these things that 695 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:57,520 Speaker 1: you're seeing on the posters. It's like people trying to 696 00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:00,880 Speaker 1: have IVF, people who have completely inviable for nancies, people 697 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,600 Speaker 1: who you know, find out six or eight weeks into 698 00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:06,399 Speaker 1: their pregnancy that that they're pregnant and you're not giving 699 00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:09,680 Speaker 1: them any options. You know. I think it's going to 700 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:12,960 Speaker 1: galvanize a lot of people who maybe haven't thought this 701 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:15,120 Speaker 1: was an issue that affected them that much because they're like, 702 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,000 Speaker 1: they had kids, they're find having more kids. Um, they 703 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:20,480 Speaker 1: maybe have a religious position, you know. I think it's 704 00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:23,919 Speaker 1: going to bring this community together and get things seen 705 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:28,960 Speaker 1: by people who don't normally think about the issue more. 706 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:42,920 Speaker 1: After a quick break, let's get right back into it. So, 707 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:46,040 Speaker 1: you know you were talking earlier about apps and how 708 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:49,120 Speaker 1: anything that can be for sale will be for sale. 709 00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:52,480 Speaker 1: I'm in in in this day and age in my life, 710 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:54,640 Speaker 1: I am like a fairly parent and white person when 711 00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:56,840 Speaker 1: it comes to this stuff. Like I own an iPhone, 712 00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:58,640 Speaker 1: but other than that, I don't have any kind of 713 00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 1: quote smart device is in my home. But that was 714 00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,359 Speaker 1: a journey. I went from like thinking it was so 715 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 1: cool that I could come into my apartment and be like, hey, 716 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:09,399 Speaker 1: Google playing Madonna and it would start playing, and then 717 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:11,759 Speaker 1: you know, now I don't have any of that stuff. 718 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:15,440 Speaker 1: But I guess there's probably people who are listening right now, um, 719 00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:20,080 Speaker 1: who are thinking like wow, I you know, I have 720 00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:22,960 Speaker 1: never really thought about digital security and this all feels 721 00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,799 Speaker 1: super overwhelming and hard. You know, what do you say 722 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:27,680 Speaker 1: to those people who are just sort of starting to 723 00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:30,040 Speaker 1: think about the implications of the technology that we use, 724 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:32,920 Speaker 1: and they're like, gee, this is a lot. Yeah, I 725 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,640 Speaker 1: mean I guess two points there. One is so I 726 00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:38,799 Speaker 1: also don't have any of those technologies. I call them 727 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:42,359 Speaker 1: in home surveillance devices because that's like what they are. Um, 728 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:45,239 Speaker 1: it's work man. Like, when we bought this house that 729 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:47,120 Speaker 1: I'm in now, we had to buy a TV, like 730 00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:49,120 Speaker 1: we bought it fresh. We had to buy everything to 731 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:51,600 Speaker 1: go and we didn't move stuff to it. Finding a 732 00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:54,560 Speaker 1: TV that doesn't have voice control, right because if you 733 00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:56,600 Speaker 1: look at the terms of service on those TVs are like, 734 00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:59,080 Speaker 1: don't have sensitive conversations in front of your TV because 735 00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:02,160 Speaker 1: we can't guarantee your privacy, and has like no, if 736 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:04,400 Speaker 1: I have to, I will get in there with a 737 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:08,160 Speaker 1: soldering iron and pick up microphone out and I have to. Uh. 738 00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:10,400 Speaker 1: It was it was a little bit of a challenge. 739 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:14,879 Speaker 1: So yeah, So on one hand, like obviously a lot 740 00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:16,879 Speaker 1: of the tradeoff we talked about with all of this 741 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:19,600 Speaker 1: is like there's convenience on one side, right, it's easy 742 00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:24,319 Speaker 1: to do the thing that lets you be surveilled by design, right, 743 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:27,360 Speaker 1: and then it's harder to do things that protect your privacy. 744 00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:28,759 Speaker 1: So you want to think about where you fall on 745 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,040 Speaker 1: the scale. I also have an iPhone, Right, it would 746 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:32,719 Speaker 1: be more secure if I just had a flip phone. 747 00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:34,359 Speaker 1: And there's just like too many things I would not 748 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:38,400 Speaker 1: be able to do if I didn't have that. UM, 749 00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:41,440 Speaker 1: But you want to think about what is the most 750 00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:45,160 Speaker 1: evil thing that a person could do with what I'm 751 00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:48,439 Speaker 1: doing with my current digital setup. So, for example, your 752 00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:51,120 Speaker 1: Internet search history or the history of websites that you 753 00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:54,320 Speaker 1: go visit. I think the first law that was signed 754 00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:58,400 Speaker 1: into effect when Trump became president UM was blocking an 755 00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:01,880 Speaker 1: Obama administration regular lation that said your internet service provider, 756 00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,120 Speaker 1: so Comcast or Exfinity or a T and T, whoever 757 00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:06,759 Speaker 1: gets you your internet to your house. Obama put in 758 00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:10,120 Speaker 1: a regulation that said they can't look at your search history, 759 00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:14,719 Speaker 1: your web browsing history and use that for advertising for monetization. 760 00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:17,480 Speaker 1: And then the very first law that the Trump administration 761 00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:21,080 Speaker 1: signed into effect was removing that regulation. Now, this was 762 00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,960 Speaker 1: a rule that was supported by like percent of Americans 763 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:27,520 Speaker 1: were like, yeah, internet service providers shouldn't be able to 764 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:29,960 Speaker 1: snoop on what I'm doing, and they overrode that rule 765 00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:32,560 Speaker 1: anyway and said, go ahead and do that. Right, say 766 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:35,160 Speaker 1: about everything you do online and it's worse than you think, 767 00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:37,239 Speaker 1: Like go back and look at your searchain history, right, 768 00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,680 Speaker 1: it's like cringe worthy awful stuff like why did I 769 00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,719 Speaker 1: search for like kangaroo sex? Like, oh, you know there's 770 00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:47,200 Speaker 1: like a commercial that came up. Um, could people twist 771 00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:48,719 Speaker 1: that and give it in a way that makes you 772 00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:51,960 Speaker 1: look bad? They totally can, right, Um, all of that 773 00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:56,319 Speaker 1: everything you do online, everything you buy, everything you search for, 774 00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:58,640 Speaker 1: every website you go to, every action you do on 775 00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:01,480 Speaker 1: it is being aggregated in the back end and used 776 00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:04,120 Speaker 1: to target you. Everywhere you move with your phone on 777 00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:06,719 Speaker 1: is being used to target you. And understand where you are. 778 00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,720 Speaker 1: Be creative about how evil it can be because that's happening. 779 00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:13,840 Speaker 1: And if we look at abortion, for example, before before 780 00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:15,520 Speaker 1: any of this row you wade stuff over the last 781 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:17,799 Speaker 1: couple of weeks, we know, for example, that there's anti 782 00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:21,759 Speaker 1: abortion groups that we're setting up geo fenced advertising. So 783 00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:24,640 Speaker 1: basically you can draw a little map and say, anytime 784 00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:27,200 Speaker 1: anybody walks into this space, I want to start sending 785 00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:29,120 Speaker 1: them ads, and they would draw it in a one 786 00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:33,040 Speaker 1: block radius around planned parenthoods or abortion providers, and then 787 00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:36,080 Speaker 1: if you crossed into that space, you would start being 788 00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:40,960 Speaker 1: targeted for months with anti abortion advertising. We know that 789 00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,359 Speaker 1: they're doing that, and they can collect data from our 790 00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:45,840 Speaker 1: phones if we engage with any of that content, and 791 00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,840 Speaker 1: so your privacy or anonymity goes away. So as you 792 00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:51,680 Speaker 1: think about the convenience that you get from bringing your 793 00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:54,040 Speaker 1: phone to your doctor's office, a thing you should totally 794 00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:56,120 Speaker 1: be able to do, you want to think about if 795 00:39:56,160 --> 00:40:00,200 Speaker 1: you should. That said, the onus should not be on 796 00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,480 Speaker 1: individuals for this right. It's a thing that should make 797 00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:06,040 Speaker 1: us push really hard for better privacy protections. They have 798 00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:08,360 Speaker 1: it in Europe, right, none of this stuff would be 799 00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:10,160 Speaker 1: legal in Europe in the way that it is here. 800 00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:14,000 Speaker 1: They have in California to a certain extent. Um, we 801 00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:17,080 Speaker 1: really need much better federal privacy laws and that will 802 00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:19,680 Speaker 1: resolve a lot of these issues, and it's the thing 803 00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:22,320 Speaker 1: that people should be pushing for. Um. The Electronic Frontier 804 00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:24,719 Speaker 1: Foundation is a great place to go. Look um it's 805 00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,240 Speaker 1: e f dot org. They have a whole legislative sections 806 00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:29,879 Speaker 1: so you can see on the local state federal level, 807 00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:33,160 Speaker 1: what legislations being in place, and like write some letters 808 00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:35,480 Speaker 1: if you care about it. I'm still glad that you 809 00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:39,640 Speaker 1: mentioned them. I love E F F shout out to them. UM, 810 00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:41,520 Speaker 1: So you know you've mentioned a couple of like really 811 00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:43,960 Speaker 1: great tips for folks if you're if you're you know it, 812 00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:46,600 Speaker 1: looking for abortion pills and you want to do it, 813 00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:47,880 Speaker 1: you know in a way that you're going to be 814 00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,600 Speaker 1: less likely to be tracked you using a tour browser 815 00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:54,640 Speaker 1: using incognito mode when you search, um using public WiFi. 816 00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:56,640 Speaker 1: Are there other tips that you want to shout out 817 00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:58,319 Speaker 1: for folks if you if they if they might need 818 00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:01,520 Speaker 1: this information. So, so that's all important stuff, I would 819 00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,000 Speaker 1: say for sure. The most important one is that you 820 00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:07,160 Speaker 1: are not paying with a credit card or a debit 821 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:09,839 Speaker 1: card connected to your name. So figure out how much 822 00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:13,160 Speaker 1: your medication is going to cost, use cash by like 823 00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:15,880 Speaker 1: a Visa Vanilla gift card, which you can get anywhere 824 00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:19,200 Speaker 1: for that amount, and then pay with the Visa Vanilla 825 00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:22,799 Speaker 1: gift card. Um. So much of how we're tracked is 826 00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:26,080 Speaker 1: through credit card number. UM, so definitely do that. And 827 00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:28,359 Speaker 1: the other way that we're really easily tracked is through 828 00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:31,319 Speaker 1: email address. So set up a fresh email address that 829 00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:34,440 Speaker 1: you are only using to buy this abortion medication. UM. 830 00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:36,799 Speaker 1: Proton mail is the one site that I recommended for this. 831 00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:39,640 Speaker 1: It's free, it's encrypted, it's really good and secure. UM. 832 00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:42,400 Speaker 1: You can just set up email address, use it to 833 00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:44,279 Speaker 1: buy your medicine. Don't use it for anything else. If 834 00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:48,360 Speaker 1: you do that, gift card fresh email address on something 835 00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:50,719 Speaker 1: like proton mail. You know I loved Gmail, I use 836 00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:52,400 Speaker 1: it right, but they track the hell out of you 837 00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:57,080 Speaker 1: on Gmail. So proton mail email address, Vanilla gift card, UM, 838 00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:00,560 Speaker 1: you you get eight of the protection from acting just 839 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:03,680 Speaker 1: from those two measures. So UM, you know that's easy 840 00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:07,960 Speaker 1: and accessible to anybody. Definitely do that. That's really helpful. 841 00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:10,120 Speaker 1: And I guess you know. One of my last questions 842 00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:12,960 Speaker 1: for you. I usually ask folks who are doing tough work, 843 00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:16,640 Speaker 1: whether it's digital surveillance or you know, abortion, like fighting 844 00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:19,680 Speaker 1: for abortion access. I usually ask, like, what keeps you 845 00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:22,239 Speaker 1: grounded and happy in this work? And I feel like 846 00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:26,040 Speaker 1: I might know for you. You You know you're just like 847 00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:28,279 Speaker 1: this from looking up looking you up online, I know 848 00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:30,799 Speaker 1: that you're like a really cool person, like you're an 849 00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:32,960 Speaker 1: ultra marathon or like you have all of this you 850 00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:36,880 Speaker 1: have a whole dynamic list of really incredible interests. You 851 00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:41,439 Speaker 1: also run Golden Ratio, a nonprofit that helps dogs. Yeah. 852 00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:44,160 Speaker 1: So I grew up with the Golden Retrievers and I 853 00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:46,240 Speaker 1: had a couple of dogs that I got his puppies 854 00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:50,200 Speaker 1: and when they died, you know, ten years ago. Um, 855 00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:51,880 Speaker 1: you know, I had been wanting to rescue and just 856 00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:53,719 Speaker 1: wasn't sure how to do it. You know, I got 857 00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:55,600 Speaker 1: my first dog, like as I was moving out of 858 00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:57,279 Speaker 1: the dorms, right, so I didn't like quite know how 859 00:42:57,320 --> 00:42:59,960 Speaker 1: to adult with a dog. Um. But you know, at 860 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:02,160 Speaker 1: that point I was like, okay, like let's start doing rescues. 861 00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:05,399 Speaker 1: So we started fostering um and then kind of fell 862 00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:09,120 Speaker 1: into this space of rescuing senior dogs and then dogs 863 00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:12,000 Speaker 1: with special medical conditions. So we're kind of like the 864 00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:15,439 Speaker 1: Island of misfit toys. Um we have We just lost 865 00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:19,600 Speaker 1: one this week actually, um, one of our epileptic dogs. UM. 866 00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:22,480 Speaker 1: So he was number six. We have five right now, 867 00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:25,680 Speaker 1: but we have a blind diabetic, we have a tripod. 868 00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:28,319 Speaker 1: We have the one on prozac who also has really 869 00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:30,960 Speaker 1: bad allergies. So all the dogs basically that nobody else 870 00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:33,959 Speaker 1: wants to deal with because they're like way too much work. Uh. 871 00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:36,400 Speaker 1: They come to us and uh and we share them 872 00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:40,759 Speaker 1: online because they are both like super joyful just existing. 873 00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:43,880 Speaker 1: But also the transformations that these dogs make. You know, 874 00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:48,200 Speaker 1: Remy who's are blind diabetic, we got him last July. Um. 875 00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:50,520 Speaker 1: He was on a chain in the backyard for five years. 876 00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:52,160 Speaker 1: He had never been to the vet. He had a 877 00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:55,680 Speaker 1: perfect rectangle of baldness between his shoulder blades where the 878 00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:58,160 Speaker 1: chain connected to his collar and had just rubbed the 879 00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:00,799 Speaker 1: fur off. He had lined his ease or luck. Yeah, 880 00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:03,720 Speaker 1: he had never had his diabetes treated. He was blind, 881 00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:07,560 Speaker 1: no training, obviously, no house breaking, and they're like, here 882 00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:10,879 Speaker 1: have this dog and uh, you know, his fur had 883 00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:13,240 Speaker 1: fallen out, like he was just a mess. And now 884 00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:15,880 Speaker 1: he is like he comes up and he like rests 885 00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:19,560 Speaker 1: his chin on my chest and he's it's fluffy monster, 886 00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:23,320 Speaker 1: and his like vision is coming back and he plays 887 00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:26,880 Speaker 1: with all the other dogs. And to watch that transformation 888 00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:29,520 Speaker 1: of these dogs who have had, like you know, some 889 00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:32,759 Speaker 1: have had like okay, slightly neglectable backgrounds, and some have 890 00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:36,520 Speaker 1: come from like really profound abuse. Um to come here, 891 00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:38,879 Speaker 1: you know, especially when we're in Florida, they like can 892 00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:41,600 Speaker 1: go into the ocean in our backyard and swim around 893 00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:43,880 Speaker 1: and we get to see that transformation, and then we 894 00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:47,520 Speaker 1: share it with people online. It's been a really it's 895 00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:49,840 Speaker 1: kind of an amazing thing. So there're a lot of work, 896 00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,399 Speaker 1: but like, how how much happier does it get than 897 00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:55,200 Speaker 1: like sick golden retrievers just really wanting to love on 898 00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:58,160 Speaker 1: you all the time. It's a top notch balance against 899 00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:03,040 Speaker 1: all this bad stuff on the internet. While Americans overwhelmingly 900 00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:05,160 Speaker 1: support the right of an individual to make their own 901 00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:09,320 Speaker 1: decisions about abortion, unfortunately that right is no longer protected 902 00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:12,640 Speaker 1: everywhere in the United States. The Supreme Court overturned Roe 903 00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:16,520 Speaker 1: versus weighed on June. Abortion is a basic health care 904 00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:19,239 Speaker 1: need for millions of people who can become pregnant, and 905 00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:21,480 Speaker 1: everyone should have their freedom to decide what's best for 906 00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:24,640 Speaker 1: themselves and their families, including when it comes to ending 907 00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:29,120 Speaker 1: a pregnancy. This decision has dire consequences for individual health 908 00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:32,800 Speaker 1: and safety, and could have harsh repercussions for other landmark decisions. 909 00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:38,000 Speaker 1: Restricting access to comprehensive reproductive care, including abortion care, threatens 910 00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:40,560 Speaker 1: the health and independence of all Americans. Even if you 911 00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:43,720 Speaker 1: live in a state where abortion rights are upheld. Access 912 00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:47,120 Speaker 1: to safe medical procedures shouldn't be determined by location, and 913 00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:49,200 Speaker 1: it should not be the privilege of a small few. 914 00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:52,920 Speaker 1: You can help by donating to local abortion funds. To 915 00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:56,000 Speaker 1: find out where to donate for each state, visit donations 916 00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:59,719 Speaker 1: for abortion dot com. That's the number four. And if 917 00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:01,759 Speaker 1: you where someone you know needs help or you want 918 00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:05,280 Speaker 1: to get more involved, here are five resources. One Shout 919 00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:09,040 Speaker 1: Your Abortion as a campaign to normalize abortion too. Don't 920 00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:11,279 Speaker 1: Ban Equality as a campaign for companies to take a 921 00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:16,280 Speaker 1: stand against abortion restrictions. Three Abortion dot Cafe has information 922 00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:20,239 Speaker 1: about where to find clinics. Four Plan the Pills dot 923 00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:23,239 Speaker 1: org provides early at home abortion pills, but you can 924 00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:27,040 Speaker 1: keep in your medicine cabinet. And five Choice dot cr 925 00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:30,120 Speaker 1: D dot CEO has a collection of these resources and more. 926 00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:33,200 Speaker 1: I encourage all of y'all to speak up, take care, 927 00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:42,360 Speaker 1: and spread the word. Got a story about an interesting 928 00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:44,400 Speaker 1: thing in tech, or just want to say hi, You 929 00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:46,719 Speaker 1: can be us at Hello at tangodi dot com. You 930 00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:49,920 Speaker 1: can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangodi dot com. 931 00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:51,600 Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet was created by 932 00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:54,160 Speaker 1: me Brigittad. It's a production of I heart Radio and 933 00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:58,160 Speaker 1: Unboss creative Jonathan Strickland as our executive producer. Tara Harrison 934 00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:01,000 Speaker 1: is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato is our 935 00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:04,600 Speaker 1: contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Dodd. If you want 936 00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:07,000 Speaker 1: to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. 937 00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:09,920 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, check out the I 938 00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:12,160 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your 939 00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:12,719 Speaker 1: podcasts