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Speaker 1: for details.

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Speaker 2: It's very difficult to keep the line between the past.

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Speaker 3: And the price.

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Speaker 2: You leave someone out of the past, we can enter

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Speaker 2: and take possession of a living being.

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Speaker 1: We may be through with the past, but the past

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Speaker 1: is not through with us.

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Speaker 4: Welcome back to the Next Picture Show, a Movie of

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Speaker 4: the Week podcast devoted to a classic film on the

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Speaker 4: way it's shaped our thoughts on a recent release. I'm

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Speaker 4: Tasha Robinson here again with Scott Tobias.

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Speaker 5: And gennvie Vkotsky.

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Speaker 4: Keith Phipps is absent again this week, but we hear

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Speaker 4: he's found a lucrative new career in France after a

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Speaker 4: long cruise, and we wish him all the best. In

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Speaker 4: our last episode, we discussed Frankenstein and Bride of Frankenstein,

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Speaker 4: James Whale's iconic Universal Monster Movies, starring Boris Karloff as

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Speaker 4: the monster routinely known as Frankenstein and Colin Clive as

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Speaker 4: the aristocratic mad scientist who brings dead flesh to life,

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Speaker 4: then finds out that's a bad idea. This week, we're

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Speaker 4: back with Yorgos Lanthemos's Poor Things, a modern whimsical retelling

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Speaker 4: starring Emma Stone as the creature equivalent Bella and Willem

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Speaker 4: Dafoe is doctor Godwin Baxter, the disintegrating mad scientist who

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Speaker 4: builds her in a lab and tries to keep her

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Speaker 4: under his thumb and close to his heart, which also

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Speaker 4: does not work out well. There's a distinctly feminist bent

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Speaker 4: to Poor Things as Bella fights for her freedom, particularly

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Speaker 4: her sexual freedom. She considers Godwin more of a father

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Speaker 4: figure than a possible lover, but it's no coincidence that

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Speaker 4: he's taught her to call him God. When she starts

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Speaker 4: to resist his control, he tries to marry her off

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Speaker 4: to his assistant, but she has escapes with a Rikish

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Speaker 4: cad named Duncan played mar Mark Ruffalo, and heads out

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Speaker 4: on an adventure where she keeps meeting men and chafing

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Speaker 4: under their ideas of reality or morality, and meeting women

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Speaker 4: who she learns from and becomes close to. Like so

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Speaker 4: many of Lanthemos's films, it's funny in a very skewed

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Speaker 4: sort of way, but it's also a lot less dark

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Speaker 4: than most of his movies, both in the sunny, vividly

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Speaker 4: colorful world Bella escapes into and in the fluffiness and

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Speaker 4: satirical quality of a lot of the themes on display here.

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Speaker 4: We'll get into it after this break. This is Bella, Bella.

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Speaker 5: This is mister mccandle's hello, Bella.

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Speaker 6: Hello.

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Speaker 7: She's an extpetlement, good evening.

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Speaker 6: Her rain and her body. I'm not quite synchronized, but

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Speaker 6: she is progressing at an accelerat decrease.

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Speaker 7: Tell me where did you come from?

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Speaker 6: I shall.

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Speaker 7: Or just a happy tale. I am Bella back stuff

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Speaker 7: and there was a world to enjoy, so can navigate.

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Speaker 7: It is the goal of all to progress, grow a

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Speaker 7: woman plotting her course to freedom.

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Speaker 6: All and the not.

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Speaker 4: All right, y'all, what the hell is the Yorgos lanth

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Speaker 4: the moost On, Like, what do you think he's doing

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Speaker 4: with this?

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Speaker 5: I don't know, but I want some I want whatever

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Speaker 5: it is. I only got to watch Poor Things once

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Speaker 5: last night, and I am dying to watch it again.

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Speaker 5: I just like want to kind of be in it

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Speaker 5: for even longer, but also like I need severer more

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Speaker 5: viewings to figure out what the hell is in here

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Speaker 5: that actually means something, you know, that has thematic residence

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Speaker 5: versus just like it looks cool and wed and you know,

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Speaker 5: makes you go, what the hell because that's also appealing

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Speaker 5: in its own right.

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Speaker 6: Well, it's a hoot, I mean, like it is. It

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Speaker 6: is a It is a very fun film. I mean

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Speaker 6: that is one of the things that's it's so interesting

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Speaker 6: about the way this film plays is that it is

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Speaker 6: a film of extremes in so many different ways. Extremes

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Speaker 6: of behavior, certainly full of images and behavior and you know,

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Speaker 6: nudity and what what I like a lot of things

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Speaker 6: that we don't really encounter, you know, different, you know,

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Speaker 6: the fish eye lends everything is so audacious and wild,

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Speaker 6: and yet it feels like the most kind of accessible thing.

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Speaker 6: He's done, like he pulled off that same kind of

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Speaker 6: trick with The Favorite as well. He just has a

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Speaker 6: he has a way of making the outrageous palatable and

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Speaker 6: and im poor things. Is just a film that I

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Speaker 6: had a first and foremost kind of a really great

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Speaker 6: time with, Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Which is not something I necessarily associate with Lanthamos's movies.

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Speaker 4: You know, I tend to really respect what he does

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Speaker 4: and find myself very much, you know, drawn deep into

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Speaker 4: it and feeling the emotions and wanting to like parse

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Speaker 4: out his meetings and his symbolism. He's one of a

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Speaker 4: fairly small handful of directors who like reading interviews with

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Speaker 4: him makes me want to go back and rewatch the

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Speaker 4: movie and then go back and reread the interview rince repeat,

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Speaker 4: because he is kind of expressing very specific things that

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Speaker 4: he's willing to talk about, but in very symbolic and

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Speaker 4: complicated ways, And this movie just doesn't feel that complicated

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Speaker 4: to me. It feels like the themes are on the

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Speaker 4: sleeve and sometimes in the mouths of the characters, but

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Speaker 4: not at all in a like a bad or limiting

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Speaker 4: or small or an insulting way. This is a very

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Speaker 4: big film, but I agree that it's definitely one of

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Speaker 4: his most accessible, maybe even more accessible than the Favorite,

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Speaker 4: and also probably more fun than the Favorite in the end.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, as much as there is going on in this movie,

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Speaker 5: it feels like it's mostly happening on a tonal and

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Speaker 5: visual level more than a thematic or innered one, Like

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Speaker 5: it is a pretty it's a neat movie, Like it

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Speaker 5: wraps up neatly. I really like the ending of this movie.

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Speaker 5: It's not like anywhere near as sort of thought provoking

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Speaker 5: as the end even of the Favorite, you know, which was,

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Speaker 5: like you say, kind of more accessible, and this one

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Speaker 5: wraps up in even like, like I said, like a

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Speaker 5: tidier package. But it's also very satisfying for that reason,

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Speaker 5: you know, Like it feels like I just had an

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Speaker 5: incredible meal watching this movie, and I'm very satisfied coming

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Speaker 5: out of it. And that's not necessarily the same as

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Speaker 5: being like intellectually stimulated, although it did have that, but

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Speaker 5: it's not like what I would necessarily say is like

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Speaker 5: the main draw of this movie is like it's it's

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Speaker 5: not like a head scratcher necessarily, you know, it's it's

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Speaker 5: entertaining and it has ideas and it expresses those ideas

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Speaker 5: in a very unexpected and unusual way, and I think

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Speaker 5: like seeing that expression, the expressionism of this movie is

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Speaker 5: sort of where the appeal and the excitement lies more

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Speaker 5: than what is being expressed. It's also just.

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Speaker 4: A very cheery movie. You know, there are sad and

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Speaker 4: tragic elements at various points in the movie, but this

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Speaker 4: is kind of a feel good movie with a happy ending.

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Speaker 4: And if you asked me to come up with a

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Speaker 4: list of twenty words or concepts that I associate with

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Speaker 4: Lanthomos's films, feel good movie or feel good comedy would

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Speaker 4: not be anywhere on that list. But this kind of is.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, even if you were describing this movie like it

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Speaker 5: wouldn't necessarily I think, be what comes. I mean, this

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Speaker 5: is a movie that opens with the suicide and the

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Speaker 5: setup I guess of what's happening to Bella is really

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Speaker 5: like gruesome but also just like kind of twisted, you know,

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Speaker 5: like she is her own child. That's really weird, you know,

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Speaker 5: but it's also like one of theo But it's also

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Speaker 5: one of those things that like once it's there, like

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Speaker 5: once it's been expressed, you're like, oh, okay, yeah, I

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Speaker 5: see that, and I see how this entire movie follows

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Speaker 5: that set up, and it does so in a very

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Speaker 5: fun way.

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Speaker 6: Well thing though, the consistent is that Lanthemos has always

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Speaker 6: had a very strong sense of humor. I mean, his

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Speaker 6: movies are all funny. Maybe there's a level of darkness

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Speaker 6: in his black comedy that might vary a bit, but

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Speaker 6: you know, I'm thinking of maybe his darkest film, The

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Speaker 6: Killing of a Sacred Deer. I mean, that's a film

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Speaker 6: that that to me, one of the funniest parts of

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Speaker 6: the movie is when when you know, when this surgeon

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Speaker 6: played by Colin Farrell has to choose, you know, he's

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Speaker 6: being forced to choose to kill one of his family members.

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Speaker 6: He does everything possible.

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Speaker 4: Oh lashmontic comedy.

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Speaker 8: It is ultimate, but his ultimate, his ultimate solution is

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Speaker 8: to blindfold himself and all of them and just just

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Speaker 8: you know, run around in circles with a rifle and

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Speaker 8: shooting until it until he hits one of them.

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Speaker 6: You know. It's just the ultimate, you know, example of

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Speaker 6: this man who cannot possibly take responsibility for any of

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Speaker 6: his actions, which I think is conceptually funny, but I

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Speaker 6: think in poor Things you get stuff that is just funny, funny,

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Speaker 6: which is a different kind of a feeling. You know

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Speaker 6: that the movie that's reminded me of most of the

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Speaker 6: Poor Things is Dog Tooth of His because he likes

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Speaker 6: this idea of children who understand the world from an

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Speaker 6: extremely narrow and sort of demented point of view, who

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Speaker 6: learn everything you know. In Dog Tooth, you have these

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Speaker 6: adult children who have never left their parents' influence and

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Speaker 6: in fact have a different sense of language than the

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Speaker 6: rest of the world. Different words have different meanings to them,

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Speaker 6: and so they're shaped wholly in, you know, in their parents' image.

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Speaker 6: But then of course their hormones or their curiosity push

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Speaker 6: against that, and that's essentially what happens in Poor Things.

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Speaker 6: It's just kind of a different type of influence that

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Speaker 6: Bella is getting from God, where she knows the word colloquially,

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Speaker 6: but she doesn't know what a banana is, or her

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Speaker 6: mannerisms of things that interest her, you know, are so

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Speaker 6: unlike they should be. Even the fact that she's as

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Speaker 6: this infant brain and adult body that is developing under

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Speaker 6: you know, there's almost a laboratory setting in the sense

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Speaker 6: that it gets so few inputs until she finds your

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Speaker 6: way out into the world, and then that becomes the

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Speaker 6: catalyst for change. But it's all fascinating. But I think

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Speaker 6: here's he's just found a way to, you know, make

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Speaker 6: it kind of enjoyable, you know. I'll mean, there's something

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Speaker 6: there's a lightness to this movie despite a lot of

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Speaker 6: incidents and a lot of aspects that if you were

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Speaker 6: just describe it flatly to a person, you think you'll

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Speaker 6: be getting in for a very very dark time at

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Speaker 6: the movies.

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Speaker 4: I don't think it's a coincidence that both of those

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Speaker 4: movies are expressly about an adult woman coded as a

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Speaker 4: child like, an adult woman who's in some ways being

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Speaker 4: like held back and deliberately stunted by an older male

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Speaker 4: father figure trying to get her claim her own sense

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Speaker 4: of agency, and that one of the major ways she's

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Speaker 4: claiming that agency is through sex. Like both of these

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Speaker 4: movies are doing exactly that. They're very similar in that regard.

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Speaker 4: I just think one of the big differences is that

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Speaker 4: with Dog Tooth there's a pretty strong sense that the

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Speaker 4: adult girl in question is being harmed, like actively being

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Speaker 4: harmed by being offered to her brother for incest, being

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Speaker 4: beaten by her father with a VHS tape for bringing

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Speaker 4: a VHS tape into the house. There's physical and sexual

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Speaker 4: and emotional harm going on there. Bella seems almost immune

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Speaker 4: to that. You know, she's actively physically stronger than the

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Speaker 4: people holding her back. She's kind of like domineering and

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Speaker 4: like almost emotionally porless in a way where all of

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Speaker 4: the emotions that people dump on her kind of roll off,

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Speaker 4: and she's a lot more just capable. She gets a

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Speaker 4: lot further, a lot faster.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 4: Dog two with ends in a very ambiguous way where

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Speaker 4: ultimately you can't really say whether the character that you're

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Speaker 4: pulling for gets anything like what she wants. But here

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Speaker 4: you get to see on screen as Bella flowers, as

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Speaker 4: she takes risks, and you keep thinking, well, that's going

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Speaker 4: to end in disaster because this is a Lanthemo's film,

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Speaker 4: and she everything keeps coming to Millhouse in a way.

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Speaker 4: You know, again, she has you know, bad moments and

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Speaker 4: ends up in bad places. But this isn't a story

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Speaker 4: about trauma or tragedy for her. It's a coming of

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Speaker 4: age story for an adult woman who's not exactly an adult,

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Speaker 4: not exactly a woman, just a lot of different symbolic

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Speaker 4: things compounded on each other. And it does feel like

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Speaker 4: the same story, but told in a way that's much

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Speaker 4: less about harm and trauma and damage and much more

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Speaker 4: about shrugging off all of the people that try to

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Speaker 4: tell you what's real.

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Speaker 5: And I think one of the ways it pulls that

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Speaker 5: off is in establishing the rate at which Bella grows

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Speaker 5: and develops, you know, and it allows for this very

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Speaker 5: incident packed mood where she moves through these different situations

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Speaker 5: and they kind of like roll off of her. But

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Speaker 5: we do see her in Emma Stone's performance, which I

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Speaker 5: just love, like, we do see her changing and almost

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Speaker 5: almost seemed to scene. We see her moving through these

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Speaker 5: experiences and processing them almost scientifically, you know, the experiment

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Speaker 5: of life like kind of gathering data and processing it

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Speaker 5: very quickly. And to bring it back to Dog Tooth,

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Speaker 5: which I also thought of watching this, just the way

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Speaker 5: she uses language and how it changes over the film

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Speaker 5: is another source of humor, like furious Jumping is going

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Speaker 5: to be in my personal lexicon for the foreseeable future.

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Speaker 5: But also just like the degree to which she evolves

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Speaker 5: in her language, but in a sort of unique or

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Speaker 5: unexpected way, and like you know, and of course she

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Speaker 5: would suddenly be able to speak French very easily, because

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Speaker 5: that's like what this character is set up to do.

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Speaker 5: She just like kind of plows through the human life experience.

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Speaker 5: And because of the rate at which she is doing this,

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Speaker 5: I think it allows her to move past trauma very

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Speaker 5: quickly to process it, you know, Like the sort of

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Speaker 5: the biggest emotional devastating moment for her is not something

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Speaker 5: that happens to her, but when she sees when she

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Speaker 5: recognizes the suffering outside her in the world, and because

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Speaker 5: that is something that she can't process on her own

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Speaker 5: the way she can and everything else she tries to

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Speaker 5: by you know, attempting to give money to these poor people.

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Speaker 5: But that doesn't work.

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Speaker 6: You know.

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Speaker 5: I don't think she ever finds out that it doesn't work, maybe,

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Speaker 5: but at any rate, Like as far as sort of

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Speaker 5: the lack of trauma to this character, it's very like

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Speaker 5: kind of external the degree to which she is upset

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Speaker 5: by things, you know, there things are happening to her,

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Speaker 5: its things that happened to other people.

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Speaker 6: It's interesting to me how she develops kind of a

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Speaker 6: moral sense outside of any influence. Really, I mean, I

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Speaker 6: don't feel like Willem Dafoe's character is giving her a

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Speaker 6: huge amount of guidance in terms of the difference between

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Speaker 6: right and wrong. But it's something that she discovers and

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Speaker 6: ends up having pretty strong feelings about along the way,

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Speaker 6: when when she kind of figures out what's going on

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Speaker 6: with this kind of sleazy lawyer that she's run off

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Speaker 6: with played by Mark Ruffalo, and how she ends up

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Speaker 6: feeling about, you know, as you were saying that the

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Speaker 6: poor people that she sees in Egypt and what she

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Speaker 6: wants to do about that. I mean, she has a

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Speaker 6: pretty strong sense of right and wrong, a very stark

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Speaker 6: basic sense, which is kind of almost childlike in a way.

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Speaker 5: I think, well, she was reading those philosophy books right

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Speaker 5: before that, you know, she's going through her philosophy phase,

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Speaker 5: which I'm sure influenced that as well.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, which is I guess. I mean that's kind of

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Speaker 6: the advantage of being an adult with an infant brain,

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Speaker 6: as you still have the infant brain is going to

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Speaker 6: have that ability to soak in knowledge like a sponge.

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Speaker 6: Adults don't knows so have that ability. But it is

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Speaker 6: fascinating to be that she is highly suggestible, I mean,

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Speaker 6: the people that she meets and sort of ping pongs

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Speaker 6: around have an outsized influence on her, for sure, but

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Speaker 6: she does have this kind of moral center that developed

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Speaker 6: throughout the movie that sort of guides her. I find

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Speaker 6: that kind of fascinating, the way it kind of snaps

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Speaker 6: into place.

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Speaker 4: I think it's necessary because one of the biggest themes

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Speaker 4: of the movie is this is something that Lanthamos has

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Speaker 4: done in a lot of his movies. Maybe all I

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Speaker 4: guess I would have to sit down with them and

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Speaker 4: kind of like unpick them apart serially to be sure.

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Speaker 4: One of the things he likes to do with his

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Speaker 4: movies is examine sort of assumptions in society and try

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Speaker 4: to figure out where they came from and whether there's

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Speaker 4: actually value to them. I remember reading a lot of

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Speaker 4: interviews about The Lobster where he talks specifically about this

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Speaker 4: about a period where he was single and just kind

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Speaker 4: of looking around him and thinking, like, why is so valuable?

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Speaker 4: Like why are people treated so differently if they're part

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Speaker 4: of a partnership and treated if they're as if there's

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Speaker 4: something naturally inherently wrong with them? If not, what happens

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Speaker 4: if we take that to extremes and here instead of

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Speaker 4: you know, examining the institution of parenthood, or of relationships

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Speaker 4: or what have you of like one thing, he creates

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Speaker 4: this like very aggressively naive character who takes everything at

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Speaker 4: face value and then examines it for herself and asks

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Speaker 4: a lot of questions about, well, okay, but why is

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Speaker 4: it this way? Why does money work the way it does?

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Speaker 4: What's the value in some people being rich and some

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Speaker 4: people being poor? Why did gender relationships work the way

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Speaker 4: they do? Like why why is sex valuable to people?

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Speaker 4: And why are they restrictive about who's allowed to have

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Speaker 4: it with who and when? And she just keeps asking

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Speaker 4: these like just very baseline okay, but why questions, which

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Speaker 4: again is you know, a Hildish point of view. You know,

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Speaker 4: a baby's view of the world is just constantly asking

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Speaker 4: the questions why, except when a real world child does it,

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Speaker 4: it's it's you know, why is the sky blue? And

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Speaker 4: here it's you know, why can't I have sex with

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Speaker 4: this other guy two minutes after having sex with you

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Speaker 4: and then have sex with you again without you making

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Speaker 4: a big deal out of it? You weird? Baby? So

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Speaker 4: I just I think one of the biggest themes going

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Speaker 4: on in this movie is just like, let's let's pick

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Speaker 4: apart society and see if any of this makes sense

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Speaker 4: from the perspective of somebody who hasn't been, you know,

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Speaker 4: engendered with it from the start, as this is the

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Speaker 4: way things are and should be.

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Speaker 6: Well, I mean, I think you could almost have kind

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Speaker 6: of a multi purpose reading of Bella's line of discovery

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Speaker 6: that Bella can be happy whenever she wants, or whatever

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Speaker 6: she says that it's like, you know, I mean, I

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Speaker 6: feel like that that's kind of a revelation ends up

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Speaker 6: being a revelation in more ways than one. It's like,

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Speaker 6: why can't I have all of these things? You know?

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Speaker 6: And it has to do with, you know, more than

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Speaker 6: self pleasure. I think.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it is important to note for those who haven't

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Speaker 4: seen the film that Bella can be happy whenever she wants.

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Speaker 4: Specifically refers to her discovering masturbation for the first time

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Speaker 4: and being very confused as to why, like other people

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Speaker 4: aren't doing it regularly, especially if you know, you look

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Speaker 4: sad here, let me fix that. All I have to

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Speaker 4: do is grab you and rub you here. This, I mean,

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Speaker 4: this movie is very transgressive in a lot of ways.

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Speaker 4: The sexual themes stretch all throughout it there's a lot.

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Speaker 4: It says a lot of things about, you know, men

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Speaker 4: and women more than anything, but also about the value

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Speaker 4: of sexual pleasure and sexual control and the question of,

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Speaker 4: like why people are jealous or feel like they have

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Speaker 4: like an entitlement over each other's bodies. What do you

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Speaker 4: make of the sexual themes in this movie?

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Speaker 5: Like I said, I'm still figuring out exactly what to

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Speaker 5: make of it. All I know is that I like it,

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Speaker 5: you know, I guess I'm I'm like Bella in that way,

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Speaker 5: And I particularly like the whole Paris sequence and Bella's

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Speaker 5: adventures in the Oldest Profession and how that invokes ideas

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Speaker 5: of liberation through sex for women and sort of the

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Speaker 5: double edged sword of that and what it can be

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Speaker 5: for women when separated from society's judgment of it, particularly

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Speaker 5: for the women who are providing this service, not so

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Speaker 5: much for the men. So just the fact that this

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Speaker 5: movie engages so directly and so non judgmentally, and so

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Speaker 5: kind of non traumatically with prostitution as a form of liberation,

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Speaker 5: I think is representative of its ideas about female sexuality.

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Speaker 5: It's certainly not like the only thought it has about

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Speaker 5: female sexuality, but I think that segment of the movie

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Speaker 5: is very important because of that.

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Speaker 6: Well, I think one thing you could say too is like,

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Speaker 6: is that because Bella doesn't know the rules, that in

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Speaker 6: itself is this incredible pathway to sexual liberation, right, I

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Speaker 6: mean that she has that freedom at all times to

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Speaker 6: kind of pursue her pleasure or not.

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Speaker 5: That's liberation and not just her pleasure, like it's during

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Speaker 5: It gives her the ability to become a fuller person.

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Speaker 5: She discovers socialism and it makes female friends, you know,

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Speaker 5: it becomes a more whole person. Thanks to this way,

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Speaker 5: she has to earn money that is you know, related

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Speaker 5: to her sexuality, but she's at this point able to

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Speaker 5: divorce her expectation of pleasure from it.

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Speaker 4: At the same time, I like that the film isn't

402
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Speaker 4: entirely naive about the fact that sex work isn't necessarily

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Speaker 4: work that everybody involved in sex work chooses. Like, I

404
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Speaker 4: think it's relatively clear eyed about the fact that Bella

405
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Speaker 4: is an utter anomaly, that she's a monster. You know,

406
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Speaker 4: she's a creation in society who's like no one else

407
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Speaker 4: and experiences the world maybe not just mentally, but also

408
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Speaker 4: you know, emotionally and socially and physically unlike anyone else.

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Speaker 4: And you know, the brothel that she ends up in,

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Speaker 4: the people there do not seem hugely like liberated and

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Speaker 4: empowered by the work that they do. It's not implied

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Speaker 4: that any of them, I think, are like sexual slaves,

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Speaker 4: but there is sort of a sense that the way

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Speaker 4: she sees it is, as with pretty much every other

415
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Speaker 4: aspect of the movie, not necessarily the way they see it.

416
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Speaker 4: So you know, it's not just a shout out to

417
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Speaker 4: sex work is freedom. It's again just a way in

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Speaker 4: which her perspective is very specific, and she brings that

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Speaker 4: perspective to other people who are free to embrace it

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Speaker 4: or rejected or interrogated as they want. We should talk

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Speaker 4: a little bit about the style and the costuming of

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Speaker 4: this movie, Like we're we're going to talk a little

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Speaker 4: bit about the sleeve sleeve sleeves, sleek on the sleeves,

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Speaker 4: the sleeves that just get like bigger and more elaborate

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Speaker 4: and more. It's hard to take your eyes off of

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Speaker 4: them at times. There are scenes in this movie where

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Speaker 4: very important action is taking place and I was just

428
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Speaker 4: kind of like looking at the sleeves, which in some

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Speaker 4: case you could like fit a whole person into. I'm

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Speaker 4: pretty convinced you could take off some of those sleeves

431
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Speaker 4: and they'd make a perfectly cromulent sheath dress for, you know,

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Speaker 4: an actress sized lady. What's up with the sleeves, Genevieve.

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Speaker 5: I love the costumes in this movie, like top to bottom,

434
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Speaker 5: and I do love the sleeves, but I particularly love

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Speaker 5: the sleeves in concert with the shorts, which is an

436
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 5: ensemble that Bella favors, particularly in the earlier parts of

437
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:53,200
Speaker 5: the film when she is more childlike, and I think

438
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,440
Speaker 5: it's a you know, to be very literal about it,

439
00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:00,840
Speaker 5: I think the sleeve is referencing the Victorians silhouette, and

440
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 5: which in sort of the era in which this ostensibly

441
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:07,959
Speaker 5: takes place, although it is a very loose stylized interpretation

442
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:12,520
Speaker 5: of Victorian era. And then she has these short pants,

443
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,160
Speaker 5: you know, like her her legs are just a bear

444
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:19,320
Speaker 5: and you know, that's a in the context of Victorian England,

445
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:22,199
Speaker 5: that would be something that only a very small child

446
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,879
Speaker 5: would be able to do, to wear short pants, you know.

447
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:30,679
Speaker 5: But in the context of this character of literally a

448
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:34,600
Speaker 5: woman and a child smashed together and thrown in the

449
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 5: face of Victorian society. It doesn't get more literal than

450
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:42,439
Speaker 5: that in costuming. But it's also just so arresting to

451
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:44,960
Speaker 5: look at. And I think, just on a visual level,

452
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,639
Speaker 5: the sleeves, you know, they draw attention to Emma Stone's face,

453
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 5: you know, they frame her face and sort of the

454
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 5: eccentric performance she's giving in all respects, but in her

455
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,920
Speaker 5: face especially, And yeah, it just it works so well.

456
00:24:59,000 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 7: I love it.

457
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 6: Yeah, And I really like the kind of different gears

458
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 6: the film shifts into in terms of the look too,

459
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 6: because all the stuff in the lab being this sort

460
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:14,159
Speaker 6: of monochromatic fish eye lens look. And then and then

461
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:16,959
Speaker 6: when once Bella gets out into the wider world, you

462
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:20,639
Speaker 6: have these bursts of color, you know, against backdrops that

463
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:24,680
Speaker 6: are odd and theatrical and very sort of in studio.

464
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,359
Speaker 6: It's a wonderful contrast between the two and and and uh,

465
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,639
Speaker 6: you know, and it's suggestive of her world opening up,

466
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:33,719
Speaker 6: of her being able to you know, in that Wizard

467
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:35,879
Speaker 6: of Oz kind of way of just you know, cpat

468
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,879
Speaker 6: to color of just like everything is just bright and

469
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 6: spectacular once once she leaves the lab.

470
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,439
Speaker 4: There's also a design aesthetic to parts of this movie

471
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 4: that remind me of Wes Anderson in a way nothing

472
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 4: has in a long time, like since he became so

473
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:56,200
Speaker 4: idiosyncratic that AI kind of like accurately reproduce how he

474
00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:04,440
Speaker 4: does set design, No can't. There's like there's a.

475
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 5: Audible angry muttering from Scott.

476
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 6: Yes.

477
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,680
Speaker 4: Yes, there's a cruise ship in particular that just feels

478
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 4: like a kind of like Andersonian meets Yellow Submarine concoction.

479
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 4: There's a city that's a very small set that feels

480
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 4: like the kind of thing like if if Wes Anderson

481
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,239
Speaker 4: and Doctor SEUs got together, they might end up with

482
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:30,640
Speaker 4: that that city. The sort of like insular sets that's

483
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:34,480
Speaker 4: meant to be artificial but is also meant to, you know,

484
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 4: evoke kind of like color and airiness and whimsy, but

485
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 4: in a very dry sort of way. It's just something

486
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 4: I don't see that much looking this much like Wes

487
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 4: Anderson outside of Wes Anderson films.

488
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 5: Definitely see the point of comparison in sort of the

489
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 5: proud and loud artificiality of it and the color. But

490
00:26:55,280 --> 00:27:00,639
Speaker 5: there's something like wilder and less controlled feeling about this

491
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 5: movie to me then, less prim I guess than Wes

492
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 5: Anderson's style is and it feels like there's more sort

493
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 5: of like Gothic and Art Nouveau influence happening and just

494
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 5: well steampunk. Of course there's a lot of steampunk influence

495
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:24,600
Speaker 5: as well. Give a shout out to the horseless carriage

496
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 5: with the horse hell from the front.

497
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 6: I love it, which is like the most memorable thing,

498
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 6: like I was just dying for. There's still not an

499
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 6: image of it on the internet because it's like, I'm

500
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 6: ready to meme away on that because it's awesome.

501
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:41,359
Speaker 5: It's certainly whimsical in a way that I associate with

502
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 5: with Anderson, but it's a darker, more maybe lurid type

503
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 5: of whimsy.

504
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,159
Speaker 4: It feels a little Willy Wonka ish, like like nineteen

505
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:52,439
Speaker 4: seventy one Willy Wonka ish.

506
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 6: What about Tasha, I'm surprised you haven't mentioned the like

507
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 6: did this not give you Baron Munchausen kind of vibes?

508
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 6: You know, I mean, particularly given Gilliam's love of the

509
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:05,400
Speaker 6: fish eye lens. I thought that the sense of fantasy

510
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:09,160
Speaker 6: and whimsy, that darkness, the look of the kind of

511
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:13,680
Speaker 6: the collar, the lensing, like, I thought that would hit

512
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 6: those sort of Gillium buttons for you.

513
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 4: Gosh, that is a really interesting comparison that honestly hadn't

514
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,159
Speaker 4: occurred to me. Terry Gillim and I broke up. He

515
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 4: got all weird and men's rightsy and reactionary, and everything

516
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 4: out of his mouth these days makes me uncomfortable, and

517
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 4: I think I just don't mentally reach for him in

518
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,360
Speaker 4: the way I used to. But also I would say this,

519
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 4: Nobody's going to look at this film and think of

520
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 4: Stanley Kubrick per se. But it does have kind of

521
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 4: a Kubrickian formality to it that is like the exact

522
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 4: opposite of the kind of thing Terry Gillium does. Like

523
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 4: Terry Gilliam is all anarchy, like he does a lot

524
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 4: of thing from the seat of his pants. He encourages

525
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 4: performances that are very kind of like flaily and over

526
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 4: the top and like just this side of chaos, and

527
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 4: Lanthemos doesn't do that at all. I feel like everything

528
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 4: that happens here is very crisp and calculated and thought through.

529
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 4: So even if there are visual similarities in terms of

530
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 4: camera approach, even if there are kind of conceptual similarities

531
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 4: in terms of you know, the fantasy, I just I wouldn't.

532
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 4: I wouldn't put the two of them in the same

533
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 4: basket ever. And part of that is also just if

534
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 4: you go back and look at Terry Gilliam's movies, all

535
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 4: of them are at heart about the uh like the

536
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 4: power of fantasy, the power of escapism, and Lanthamos is

537
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 4: exact opposite. He's he's about like the power of examining

538
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 4: things and logic and control and intellectualism. I just I

539
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 4: think that they're very very opposite forces.

540
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think maybe I'm just thinking about the look

541
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 6: of the film, you know. Yeah, the Kubrick thing. I mean,

542
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 6: Lanthemos is hugely influenced by by Kubrick, and it has

543
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 6: shown it more plainly and his films, I think. I

544
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 6: think Louis bin Well is another one as another person

545
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 6: in terms of in terms of social satire is and

546
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 6: uh in kind of turning the tables as Lanthamos does

547
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 6: here in other films. I think it's another pretty significant

548
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 6: influence as well. This is the He's the kind of

549
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 6: guy that we need making movies for for just for

550
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 6: our podcasting purposes, because there's so many a lot of

551
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 6: there's just a lot of good pairings that go with

552
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 6: this stuff.

553
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, this is this is our third Lanthemos, so he's

554
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 5: definitely getting up there as one.

555
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 6: Of our more what do we do? We did the

556
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 6: Favorite and what we.

557
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 5: Did dog Tooth, We paired it with Kajillionaire. Dog Tooth

558
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 5: was the classic film.

559
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 6: Okay, dog Tooth is the classic film with the Kajillionaire,

560
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 6: And then we did and then we did, we did

561
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 6: the Favorite and what I mean Young Girls.

562
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 5: Of course, before we leave the discussion of the film's style,

563
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 5: just because this is a specific style point, we won't

564
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,960
Speaker 5: be able to get into in connections, but I can

565
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,959
Speaker 5: we talk about the Fish Islands because I've seen it

566
00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 5: brought up by some people as too much, a little

567
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:02,720
Speaker 5: too much. What did you both think of that?

568
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 4: I'm just not ever that much in favor of a

569
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 4: fish eye lens unless it's being used. I mean, when

570
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 4: Gilliam uses it in Brazil, it's almost always to give

571
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 4: you a sense of the panopticon of like some kind

572
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 4: of like malign force that has a very twisted way

573
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 4: of looking at things, is looking at you, or you know,

574
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 4: looking at whoever's on screen at the moment. I would

575
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 4: not be surprised going back and rewatching this, especially if

576
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 4: it's focused on the beginning of the movie, because I

577
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 4: don't know at what point it leads off. It sounds

578
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 4: like Scott was saying that it's a more of a

579
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 4: beginning of the movie thing, but it certainly could, you know,

580
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 4: reflect how everything in her world is filtered through through Godwin,

581
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 4: and he is a very twisted creature with a very

582
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 4: twisted outlook. We haven't talked at all really about him

583
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 4: and his constant casual talk about funny and traumatic at

584
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 4: the same time. He just keeps constantly coming up with,

585
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 4: you know, well, my father certainly would have nailed my

586
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 4: genitalness to a board and thrown darts at them if

587
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 4: he hadn't had, like, you know, a scientific purpose. You know,

588
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 4: he just keeps coming up with worse and worse things

589
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 4: that his own father did to traumatize him, all of

590
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 4: which he like assumes, we're done beneficently and with purpose

591
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 4: and that were important, which is kind of back to

592
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:25,720
Speaker 4: the whole twisted upbringing and the power of parents thing

593
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 4: that we see both in Dog Tooth and here he's trying.

594
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 6: To do something differently than his dad, but then it

595
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 6: doesn't work out, so he goes back to he goes,

596
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 6: he tries, he tries another similar creature played by Margaret Qually,

597
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 6: that he is going to give and treat a little

598
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,959
Speaker 6: harsher because maybe because maybe the experiment will work out

599
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 6: a little bit better that way. But he tries to

600
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 6: he's trying, he's trying to be trying to be the

601
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 6: good dad here a little bit.

602
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 4: Sure, but but regardless, I mean, it's it's very clear

603
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 4: that he has a very warped view on the world

604
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 4: and in spaces that he can trolls, it's not surprising

605
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 4: to me that the camera would take a very warped

606
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 4: view on the world as a way of expressing that.

607
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 4: But that's again, there's so much going on in this movie.

608
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 4: It's so dense, there's so much incident in so many ideas,

609
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 4: Like I would have to go back and rewatch it

610
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 4: to really be sure when he's doing those tricks with

611
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 4: the camera and what I think they signify.

612
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 5: That wasn't quite the direction that my mind went in

613
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 5: with it, but it's it's sort of related in that

614
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 5: kind of how I was reading the fish eye lens

615
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 5: was kind of similar to a microscope and also kind

616
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 5: of has a little bit of a surveillance feeling, and

617
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 5: I think ties into this kind of you know idea

618
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 5: that keeps coming up of you know, this is all

619
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 5: just one big experiment that like she's his experiment and

620
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 5: she's kind of experimenting with the world, you know, Like

621
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 5: her whole experience is kind of running an experiment on

622
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 5: humanity and seeing what happens. So that was sort of

623
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 5: my take on the fish eye lens, but it also

624
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 5: blends into what you're saying, just thing Tasha, so protection

625
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 5: at Yeah, fish eye lens, it has a point besides

626
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 5: looking I don't actually like the look of the fish

627
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 5: eye lens that much, but again, it's employed here in

628
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 5: a way that I think pulls it off.

629
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 2: Well.

630
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,920
Speaker 4: We should get into connections. But in that same spirit

631
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 4: of here's things we're not going to be able to

632
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 4: talk about in connections, I just want to bring up

633
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:25,279
Speaker 4: the fact that Mark Ruffalo's performance here is one of

634
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 4: my absolute favorite of the year. He is I've gotten

635
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 4: so used to him, I think as Bruce Banner and

636
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 4: the MCU, that I've forgotten that he's like a really

637
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,840
Speaker 4: experienced and flexible actor and that he's good at comedy

638
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:45,359
Speaker 4: and he is so freaking funny in this movie. And

639
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 4: he's just given these, like, you know, giant platefuls of

640
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:52,320
Speaker 4: ham to eat and he just goes in with both hands.

641
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 4: It's a blast.

642
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, one of the more amusingly petulant performances in cinema.

643
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:01,919
Speaker 4: Just the very very over the top in a fun

644
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 4: kind of way, but but also in a very varied way.

645
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 4: Like he gets to play a lot of people in

646
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 4: the person that he's playing in this movie, and I

647
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 4: think that's a fun time.

648
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,880
Speaker 5: Also, correct if I'm wrong. One of the dangling threads

649
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 5: of this this movie, I don't I don't think we

650
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 5: really get an answer to what happens to his character.

651
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 5: He kind of like barges back in in an important

652
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:25,880
Speaker 5: moment and then is not heard from it again.

653
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:27,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm not sure that the movie cares.

654
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, because Bella doesn't care, like she's interested him exactly.

655
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:35,320
Speaker 4: Scott, we've each thrown out one one favorite thing that

656
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 4: we really wanted to discuss. What's yours? What's your big standout.

657
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 6: For poor things? I don't know Duck's or the chicken.

658
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 6: I do like the think. I think it's like a

659
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 6: it's like a frenchyet right that the dog part of it. Yeah,

660
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:50,800
Speaker 6: I love it. I love it. More more of that stuff,

661
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 6: but uh, I like, yeah, it was Christopher Abbott and

662
00:35:55,239 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 6: the husband. Yeah, terrific that guy. That guy is unbelievably talented.

663
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 6: I want to put all the chips in for Christopher Abbott.

664
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:06,799
Speaker 6: I think he's just an immense talent that needs to

665
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:09,320
Speaker 6: you know, hopefully we'll find the roles that are suitable

666
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 6: to that talent because he's got it.

667
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 2: Well.

668
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:12,880
Speaker 4: There are other actors that we should really talk about

669
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:15,759
Speaker 4: in Poor Things, but they're actors whose roles within the

670
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:19,279
Speaker 4: story and kind of rolls within the symbology here both

671
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,759
Speaker 4: match up a lot more neatly with things that go

672
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 4: on in the Frankenstein movies. So let's take a break

673
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 4: and then we'll move into connections.

674
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 3: This episode is brought to you by Redfinn. You're listening

675
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:41,439
Speaker 3: to a podcast, which means you're probably multitasking, maybe even

676
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:45,080
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677
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678
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679
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680
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682
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 7: These two are fighting and ideas of banging around in

683
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 7: Bella's head in heart like lights in the storm.

684
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:11,920
Speaker 4: Oh you're always reading?

685
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 5: Now better, You're losing some of your adorable way speaking.

686
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 7: I'm a changeable feast, as are all of we, apparently,

687
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:24,800
Speaker 7: according to Emerson, disagreed with by Harry. Come Come, just come.

688
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:30,240
Speaker 4: You were in My Son What Now it's time for connections,

689
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:32,439
Speaker 4: when we bring these two films together and talk about

690
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 4: all of the things that they have in common. I

691
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 4: feel like one of the big things we've already kind

692
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 4: of touched on, you know, earlier. There's some obvious broad

693
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 4: connections that we'll get into. But for me, one of

694
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:47,239
Speaker 4: the things that stands out here is the parent and

695
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:51,880
Speaker 4: child relationships, the kind of parent and child metaphors, since

696
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 4: both of these stories are about people who are playing

697
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 4: God effectively bringing an adult into the world, and these

698
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 4: adult are very naive children. You know, they don't have

699
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 4: full control over their own bodies, They don't understand how

700
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:10,440
Speaker 4: the world works, they don't know how to respond to

701
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 4: other people, and one of them slowly learns that over

702
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:18,239
Speaker 4: time and kind of finds agency in it, and the

703
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 4: other one doesn't and just kind of keeps repeating the

704
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 4: same response. But you know, ultimately, the danger of bringing

705
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:29,920
Speaker 4: a fully grown adult into the world with a child's

706
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:33,360
Speaker 4: mind is that, you know, adults are full size. So

707
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:38,239
Speaker 4: Frankenstein is physically dangerous to everyone he meets. You know,

708
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 4: if he was if he had been produced as a baby,

709
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:45,800
Speaker 4: like all of his rages and tantrums would not result

710
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 4: in a trail of bodies. But he basically has the

711
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 4: brain of an infant, I mean, technically, no, technically is

712
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 4: the brain of an abbey normal adult. But he comes

713
00:38:56,200 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 4: into the world, you know, naiven, ignorant and helpless, and

714
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 4: when he reacts to the abuse that he's given, it's

715
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:08,840
Speaker 4: with lethal force because you know, he's a big, strong monster.

716
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 4: Bella does some of the same kind of kind of shenanigans.

717
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:17,719
Speaker 4: You know, it's she's a pretty unpleasant character for a

718
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:22,880
Speaker 4: lot of this movie. She's you know, societally breaking, like

719
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 4: bold and brash, and that can be both comedic and

720
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 4: a little off putting. But she also throws tantrums, you know,

721
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 4: and flips tables and throws things and screams and is

722
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 4: very strong and very dangerous. So that idea of like

723
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 4: dangerous adult children and the kind of twisted, warped parents

724
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:45,239
Speaker 4: that bring them into the world and then want to

725
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:47,920
Speaker 4: own them even though they are sort of technically at

726
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:51,719
Speaker 4: least physically adults and who are who you know, come

727
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 4: across as abusive in their attempts to cut their large

728
00:39:56,520 --> 00:40:01,840
Speaker 4: adult sons and daughters off from literal daylight or figurative daylight,

729
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 4: I think is a thing both of these movies have

730
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 4: very strongly in common.

731
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 5: Yes, but they also both have moments of these parent

732
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:13,799
Speaker 5: figures sort of letting go of the children they make

733
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 5: like I mean, God, Yes, he keeps Bella confined for

734
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 5: a portion of her life. It's kind of unclear exactly

735
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 5: how long she's been around when the movie begins, you know,

736
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 5: but he is the one who kind of allows her

737
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:34,239
Speaker 5: to go off with Duncan sort of. It seems like

738
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 5: he kind of just sees it as another phase in

739
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 5: the experiment, I guess, you know, But where the control

740
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:43,080
Speaker 5: comes back. As you mentioned previously, Tasha is with Felicity

741
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 5: Margaret Qualley's character and sort of him trying to rectify

742
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 5: what he sees as a mistake. Maybe in letting Bella go,

743
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:56,759
Speaker 5: and also Doctor Frankenstein, you know, and bride of Frankenstein

744
00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:00,280
Speaker 5: in particular is he does not want to be associated

745
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:03,239
Speaker 5: with this, this monster. He does not want to have

746
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 5: anything to do with his creation anymore. He's he's actively

747
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:10,440
Speaker 5: trying to avoid it now that it's out in the world.

748
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 5: There is also sort of this within this parent child dynamics,

749
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:18,239
Speaker 5: sort of this twist on I guess, like leaving the

750
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 5: nest or, like the child becoming their own thing outside

751
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:28,840
Speaker 5: of their parents' control and obviously with more tragic circumstances

752
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 5: in Frankenstein's monster's case.

753
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 6: It's interesting to think about doctor Frankenstein and Godwin as

754
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 6: parents because of course they don't really see themselves as

755
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 6: that they are that they are scientists first, and so

756
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:46,239
Speaker 6: their impulses to inclination is to step back and take

757
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 6: an observational role at a moment when their creations need

758
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:53,359
Speaker 6: them the most, need guidance, don't know their way through

759
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:56,279
Speaker 6: the world. A parent, a parent, what of course you

760
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:58,320
Speaker 6: know if you if you've had if you've had an infant,

761
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:00,880
Speaker 6: as I have a couple of times, they need a

762
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 6: lot of stuff you need, They need you to do

763
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:05,439
Speaker 6: for everything. And and and they need your your your

764
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 6: guidance at that point, at the earliest point of their lives.

765
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 6: It's certainly, you know, even though both of these creations

766
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:16,959
Speaker 6: are adults or giant monsters, they're underdeveloped and they don't

767
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 6: they're not familiar with the world. They need some sort

768
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:23,240
Speaker 6: of guidance. And and but the scientist approaches to see, okay,

769
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:25,799
Speaker 6: what's going to happen. But of course both of them

770
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 6: are you know. The tension in both both the horror

771
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 6: I guess of Frankenstein and then the comedy of Poor

772
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 6: Things is that they can't, is that they immediately cannot

773
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 6: do that. They have to step in. The experiment is

774
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 6: out of control instantly, and so they have to kind

775
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:43,040
Speaker 6: of figure out how to intervene in the ways of

776
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:47,480
Speaker 6: which they influence their creation. Particularly Godwin is so kind

777
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 6: of warped and hilarious.

778
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:53,800
Speaker 5: It's also interesting in this in the context of this connection,

779
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:59,480
Speaker 5: to note that both the monster and Bella do eventually

780
00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:02,760
Speaker 5: follow in the footsteps or to take up the family

781
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:07,400
Speaker 5: business to one degree or another. Bella very directly, you know,

782
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 5: she literally takes over God's plan I guess at the

783
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:14,440
Speaker 5: end of the film, it's a little more oblique with

784
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 5: the monster, but you know, there you can kind of

785
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:23,320
Speaker 5: read him working with doctor Petorius to create a mate,

786
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 5: you know, as sort of following in his creator's footsteps

787
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:32,360
Speaker 5: and collaborating on a creation of his own, and also

788
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 5: in the end kind of coming to the same realization

789
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:40,759
Speaker 5: that Frankenstein comes to as far as the unsustainability of

790
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:41,800
Speaker 5: that creation.

791
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 4: As far as Scott's observation that both of the parental

792
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:49,799
Speaker 4: figures and these kind of twisted upbringing relationships think of

793
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:52,480
Speaker 4: themselves as scientists and are trying to take a like

794
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:56,840
Speaker 4: a more reserved and observational route, and then can't I

795
00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:59,880
Speaker 4: think there's a big obvious reason for that, and that

796
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:02,400
Speaker 4: because of the kind of science that they're performing.

797
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 5: Well, it's a it's a weird kind of science, isn't it.

798
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:10,279
Speaker 5: That's the connection we have. But it's also, you know,

799
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:13,400
Speaker 5: it's a fantasy version, a magic version of science, although

800
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 5: it's kind of portrayed in very similar ways what with

801
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:20,880
Speaker 5: the electric coils and the opening of the brain of

802
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 5: the head and whatnot.

803
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:24,359
Speaker 6: I really I do sort of love the aspect of

804
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:27,240
Speaker 6: that both films take where they're just not really even

805
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:31,040
Speaker 6: trying to kind of even explain the science of in

806
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:32,840
Speaker 6: a way, it's just sort of like we're in a

807
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 6: lab gizmos electricity and this is you know, and of

808
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:41,239
Speaker 6: course that is that's such a basic elemental power, you know,

809
00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:45,360
Speaker 6: like you know, electricity, lightning to something something that something

810
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:48,719
Speaker 6: godlike power that you you know, that zeus like power.

811
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:51,319
Speaker 6: I guess was that you can kind of summon and

812
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:54,480
Speaker 6: put in a dead thing and make make that dead

813
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:57,880
Speaker 6: thing alive. And what what that makes you is is, uh,

814
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:01,839
Speaker 6: you know, something more than scientist as someone you know,

815
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 6: someone who is God, you know, and of course it

816
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 6: literally and in poor things is his name is God

817
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:11,440
Speaker 6: when of course she calls him God just directly that

818
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:14,359
Speaker 6: is who he is. And he himself looked it looks

819
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:19,240
Speaker 6: like the product of a certain Frankenstidian process.

820
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:21,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I mean that kind of links back to

821
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 5: the connection we were just talking about with parents and

822
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:30,279
Speaker 5: children and Godwin's whole thing where he is to a

823
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:35,279
Speaker 5: large degree his father's monstrous creation and has you know,

824
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:40,120
Speaker 5: passed that outlook, I guess, on life down or but

825
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:43,440
Speaker 5: also kind of evolved it in his approach to Bella

826
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:46,319
Speaker 5: and then Bella in like I said, taking up the

827
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 5: family business at the end kind of evolves it in

828
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:53,240
Speaker 5: her own way too, and like it gets like increasingly

829
00:45:53,520 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 5: distanced from the sort of just violent application of science

830
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:05,719
Speaker 5: and says control from that Godwin's father practiced to you know,

831
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:09,439
Speaker 5: what what Bella is attempting to do, We certainly don't

832
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:11,880
Speaker 5: know what where it will lead, but it seems to

833
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:16,280
Speaker 5: be the point we leave her a more benign relationship

834
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:17,440
Speaker 5: to to it.

835
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:19,719
Speaker 4: Oh, I don't know about that at all. I mean,

836
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:22,960
Speaker 4: without without getting into spoilers on Poor Things, I think

837
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:26,200
Speaker 4: there's certainly a character that would say that, you know,

838
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 4: these these violent designs are being used to violent ends,

839
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:36,719
Speaker 4: and that her her engagement with Godwin's science is being used.

840
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 5: To maybe not benign, righteous maybe the better word I

841
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:41,080
Speaker 5: give you that.

842
00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:45,960
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, you know, I think you could say that

843
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 6: in their own way, you're doing what what every generation

844
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:50,840
Speaker 6: wants to do, which is to kind of do things

845
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:54,360
Speaker 6: a little bit better than your parents did. So like

846
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 6: each each person in Poor Things, each you know, does

847
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:02,359
Speaker 6: a little bit better than their their parent did by

848
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:05,839
Speaker 6: the end. So it's kind of an optimistic ending in

849
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:06,279
Speaker 6: its way.

850
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:09,200
Speaker 4: So the connection that we actually have written down is

851
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 4: weird science. But I will go further and say that,

852
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:14,719
Speaker 4: you know, this is mad science. And I think a

853
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:19,400
Speaker 4: lot of our both kind of visual and conceptual imagery

854
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:24,279
Speaker 4: around mad science comes from Colin Clive's performances as Henry Frankenstein.

855
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:24,560
Speaker 6: Here.

856
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:28,480
Speaker 4: You know, there's there's the you know, bubbling retorts and

857
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:32,359
Speaker 4: the Jacob's ladders, and the you know, dark gothic expressionist

858
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:36,680
Speaker 4: lab full of full of nastiness, and the everything must

859
00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:39,479
Speaker 4: be done during a storm of it all. But there's

860
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 4: also you know, he he just gives a very like

861
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:47,400
Speaker 4: eye rolling, obsessive, I'll show them all fools, you know,

862
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:51,880
Speaker 4: kind of almost villainous performance as a mad scientist. And

863
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 4: I we've inherited a lot of that in the concept

864
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 4: of the scientists who you know, when we say mad science,

865
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:02,919
Speaker 4: we mean like one of two things. One is that

866
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 4: you know, it doesn't acknowledge any kind of like conventional

867
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:13,479
Speaker 4: morality or scientific process. It's all about obsessive drives and

868
00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 4: not caring like what the world thinks. And if you've

869
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:18,600
Speaker 4: got to go murder a few people and cut out

870
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:21,480
Speaker 4: their hearts in order to make your science work, or

871
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:26,000
Speaker 4: experiment on unwilling live human subjects or whatever, well you

872
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:31,160
Speaker 4: know you got to progress somehow, and the scientific discovery

873
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:35,280
Speaker 4: is worth it. But we also mean science that does

874
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:40,440
Speaker 4: like supernatural level stuff because the scientist is not following

875
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:45,320
Speaker 4: the rules, you know, is not following like clinical laboratory rigor,

876
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:47,719
Speaker 4: and therefore is doing stuff nobody else would think of,

877
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 4: and it does actually work, for instance, by bringing corpses

878
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:54,120
Speaker 4: to life. So I just I think it's interesting that

879
00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:59,279
Speaker 4: a version of Henry Frankenstein in both of these movies is.

880
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:02,640
Speaker 4: I kind of love the moment in Bride where he

881
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:06,839
Speaker 4: goes from telling pretorious like, no, I'm never going back

882
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:08,799
Speaker 4: to this again. It was a destructive and horrible thing

883
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:12,080
Speaker 4: I under no circumstances will make another monster. But when

884
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:14,239
Speaker 4: he gets back into the lab, he falls back at

885
00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:18,120
Speaker 4: old habits. He becomes his old like, bossy, forceful, nothing

886
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:22,759
Speaker 4: matters except the experiment, and except getting my way kind

887
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:28,359
Speaker 4: of thing. He's unobsessive, and he's both very cruel and

888
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:31,960
Speaker 4: very monomoniacal in getting done what he wants to get done.

889
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:35,719
Speaker 4: So it's interesting to me that Godwin is specifically portrayed

890
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:40,279
Speaker 4: as still twisted, still very much outside the bounds of

891
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:45,480
Speaker 4: conventional morality, but kind you know, like wants to engage

892
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:51,399
Speaker 4: in a personal parental relationship with his experiment. The scene

893
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:53,719
Speaker 4: where they're lying in bed together and he's telling her

894
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:57,600
Speaker 4: about the world has a very innocent father daughter feeling

895
00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:00,080
Speaker 4: to it. To me, that isn't at all sexual, but

896
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:03,640
Speaker 4: it's also very personal. It's not the distance to remove

897
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:06,760
Speaker 4: of the scientist. It's somebody who really does care about

898
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:09,560
Speaker 4: his experiment. So even though he's firmly in the mad

899
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:13,279
Speaker 4: scientist category, he doesn't behave like our cliche of it.

900
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:17,719
Speaker 4: He is a much warmer individual, even if he's very

901
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:21,759
Speaker 4: very twisted about how he pursues both his means and

902
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:23,279
Speaker 4: his relationships.

903
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:25,920
Speaker 5: And listen to you just now. It occurred to me

904
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:30,560
Speaker 5: that both Poor Things and Bride of Frankenstein includes a

905
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:36,680
Speaker 5: matter scientist figure as a point of contrast, and doctor

906
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:41,320
Speaker 5: Pretorius and Godwin's father, who we don't meet but obviously

907
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:45,800
Speaker 5: hear quite a bit about. So I think by having

908
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:51,319
Speaker 5: a sort of more overtly mad character to kind of

909
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:55,799
Speaker 5: weigh our primary scientists against, it allows a little more

910
00:50:55,960 --> 00:51:00,680
Speaker 5: of their humanity nuance to come out. It's a little

911
00:51:00,719 --> 00:51:03,759
Speaker 5: easier to maybe not quite sympathize with them, but to

912
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:06,520
Speaker 5: understand what's making them tick. Than if they were just

913
00:51:06,719 --> 00:51:07,839
Speaker 5: a pure mad men.

914
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:10,640
Speaker 6: Well, I mean both of these, one thing they have

915
00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:14,320
Speaker 6: in common, sort of, I guess, is a fairly extreme

916
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:19,880
Speaker 6: expressionistic visual style. I mean it's not the same style exactly,

917
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:25,600
Speaker 6: but it is markedly different from whatever the whatever the

918
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:29,360
Speaker 6: style of the time might might have been. With Frankenstein

919
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:35,480
Speaker 6: and Brier, Frankenstein, James Whale was drawing from German expressionism,

920
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:40,439
Speaker 6: all these very very dark, shadowy, angular films that were

921
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:44,279
Speaker 6: being imported at the time. In fact, I think Frankenstein

922
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:48,759
Speaker 6: came out the same year as Fritz Lung's m and

923
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:52,239
Speaker 6: while and while I while em Is is the far

924
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:56,360
Speaker 6: more sophisticated of the two films on virtually every level,

925
00:51:56,400 --> 00:52:00,319
Speaker 6: I think I think it's significant that that that style was,

926
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:04,319
Speaker 6: you know, imported and then deployed quite a lot, not

927
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:07,080
Speaker 6: just here that not just in Frankenstein Bright and Frankenstein,

928
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:11,759
Speaker 6: but in the noir movement to come. And so Frankenstein

929
00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:14,160
Speaker 6: was kind of a first glimpse into that influence. And

930
00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:16,960
Speaker 6: then of course with you know, poor Things, I mean,

931
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:19,160
Speaker 6: you certainly get a lot of a lot of odd angles,

932
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:22,880
Speaker 6: and you know that that sort of underline the eccentricity

933
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:26,399
Speaker 6: and the strangeness of this situation. But then you get

934
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:30,640
Speaker 6: this wonderful variance between the lab scenes, which I think

935
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:33,560
Speaker 6: it was a genet compared it to kind of a

936
00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:37,279
Speaker 6: microscopic look that the fish eye of this fish line

937
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:40,160
Speaker 6: lens and then the black and white to when Bella

938
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:42,160
Speaker 6: goes out in the wider world and we get this

939
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:48,080
Speaker 6: really beautiful, more more colorful, you know, sort of matte

940
00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:50,319
Speaker 6: painting need to sort of sort of look to it.

941
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:53,000
Speaker 6: So they both these both of these films kind of

942
00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:58,680
Speaker 6: use their premises to really go out on a limb stylistically.

943
00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:01,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think in both of these cases it's just

944
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:06,960
Speaker 4: really appropriate to have kind of warped, twisted fantasy versions

945
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:10,120
Speaker 4: of the world to reflect that kind of warped twisted

946
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:13,920
Speaker 4: fantasy versions of the world that the protagonists, or at

947
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:18,279
Speaker 4: least the central scientists have. It's just it's a way

948
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:21,200
Speaker 4: of kind of twigging the audience to say, you know,

949
00:53:21,239 --> 00:53:25,520
Speaker 4: we're outside of reality here, or we're at least at

950
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:27,640
Speaker 4: a fairly extreme bound of reality.

951
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:31,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I think it's especially interesting to note how

952
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:35,520
Speaker 5: these styles are applied to the natural world, in particular,

953
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:39,640
Speaker 5: to you know, in stories about characters who were you know,

954
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:42,680
Speaker 5: born in a lab who venture out into the real

955
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:46,520
Speaker 5: world and into nature. Like one of the most striking

956
00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:50,080
Speaker 5: sort of sets to be and Bride of Frankenstein is

957
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:54,480
Speaker 5: the forests that's just like pillars of trunks, like just

958
00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:59,200
Speaker 5: giant trunks with no leaves on it. You know, it's

959
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 5: just like had a very striking image. But you know,

960
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:04,560
Speaker 5: you also have it in contrast to sort of earlier

961
00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:07,160
Speaker 5: in the film where franget Signed is sort of like

962
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:11,719
Speaker 5: wandering these more like bucolic forests, you know. So the

963
00:54:11,719 --> 00:54:16,480
Speaker 5: way that this expressionistic style is applied to just trees

964
00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:21,040
Speaker 5: in different ways is very kind of interesting to note

965
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:24,440
Speaker 5: and compare throughout the film. And then you know, in

966
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:30,359
Speaker 5: Poor Things we get these kind of incredible unreal quote

967
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:33,320
Speaker 5: unquote natural landscapes, like of the thing of the ocean

968
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:36,080
Speaker 5: that we see during the cruise ship that's just like

969
00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:39,360
Speaker 5: kind of technicolor, you know, and the the in Egypt.

970
00:54:39,560 --> 00:54:43,239
Speaker 5: You know that it's all like a very stylized view,

971
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:46,279
Speaker 5: you know, of the natural world, and it's that is

972
00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:49,799
Speaker 5: being seen through the eyes of these unnatural creatures. Like

973
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:52,359
Speaker 5: it's it's a natural world portrayed in an unnatural light,

974
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:57,520
Speaker 5: as seen by an unnatural protagonist, and it just it's

975
00:54:57,560 --> 00:55:01,400
Speaker 5: a way that I think this form follow function, or

976
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:05,360
Speaker 5: the style follows the narrative and the ideas of both films.

977
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:07,960
Speaker 4: Although in both cases in terms of form following function,

978
00:55:08,120 --> 00:55:13,000
Speaker 4: I wonder how much budget consideration came in in the

979
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:15,400
Speaker 4: degree of stylization in both of these films. Like I

980
00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:18,000
Speaker 4: just keep coming back to that image of the cruise

981
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:21,560
Speaker 4: ship and how much it looks like a strange little

982
00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:24,920
Speaker 4: west Andersonian toy, you know, the kind of thing that

983
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:27,200
Speaker 4: you might see in like is stop motion movies in

984
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:31,040
Speaker 4: terms of extreme stylization. But that's also something you get

985
00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:33,960
Speaker 4: from you know, we did this all in CG because

986
00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:37,080
Speaker 4: there was no way to build this as a set

987
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:41,719
Speaker 4: or as a convincing model. And in Frankenstein, one of

988
00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:44,040
Speaker 4: the things that just kept striking me over and over

989
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:47,439
Speaker 4: is like the scenes that take place atop a hill

990
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:50,680
Speaker 4: where the monster is fleeing and the dogs are pursuing

991
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:53,440
Speaker 4: and the mob is there waving their torches and it's

992
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:57,400
Speaker 4: all terrifying, but you can really visibly see the wrinkles

993
00:55:57,600 --> 00:56:00,560
Speaker 4: in the backdrop that is the sky. You know, there's

994
00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:06,080
Speaker 4: this sharp hilltop against a kind of like vivid dark

995
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:08,759
Speaker 4: cloudy sky, but the vivid, dark, cloudy sky is a

996
00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:11,800
Speaker 4: giant curtain with clouds painted on it, and it's pretty

997
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:15,799
Speaker 4: wrinkly and very very visibly so, so I just kind

998
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:20,000
Speaker 4: of think of in both cases some of the limitations

999
00:56:20,120 --> 00:56:22,279
Speaker 4: on the world that are also just some of the

1000
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:26,280
Speaker 4: the kind of like extreme contrasts that make them visually

1001
00:56:26,280 --> 00:56:29,200
Speaker 4: interesting may well have just come out of like budget concerns.

1002
00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:32,840
Speaker 5: Wow, Tasha calling these movies out is cheap.

1003
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:37,879
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, movies in nineteen thirty one were

1004
00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:41,600
Speaker 4: you know, being made for hundreds sometimes dozens.

1005
00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:43,719
Speaker 6: Of dollars, not spending a ton of money on the

1006
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:46,640
Speaker 6: movies at the time. But I think Poor Thing, Poor

1007
00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:47,840
Speaker 6: Things looks very expensive.

1008
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:50,280
Speaker 5: Bride had more resources toward it, right.

1009
00:56:50,200 --> 00:56:54,520
Speaker 6: Yeah, based on it was, you know, the first one

1010
00:56:54,560 --> 00:56:56,839
Speaker 6: being such a huge yet and Poor Things, I think

1011
00:56:56,880 --> 00:56:58,000
Speaker 6: Poor Things looks pretty awesome.

1012
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:01,800
Speaker 4: I'm not a anyway saying that it doesn't look awesome.

1013
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:06,920
Speaker 4: I'm saying that these days, affects cost money, and you

1014
00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:11,279
Speaker 4: can try to make things look super photorealistic and then

1015
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:14,920
Speaker 4: they're very either very expensive or they're unconvincing or both,

1016
00:57:15,640 --> 00:57:17,640
Speaker 4: or you can go with something like more extreme and

1017
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:22,920
Speaker 4: weird and stylized and fun and thematic and you know,

1018
00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:26,640
Speaker 4: communicative and suggestive of a theme that might actually be

1019
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:29,920
Speaker 4: easier to do, you know, because you're not trying to

1020
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:32,360
Speaker 4: make it look exactly like convincing reality.

1021
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:34,680
Speaker 6: I mean, I would have been a terrible mistake on

1022
00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:37,160
Speaker 6: the film or the alms is part to try to

1023
00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:39,360
Speaker 6: do anything, to try to do anything other than what

1024
00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:41,440
Speaker 6: he did, really just I mean, I think, I think

1025
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:43,680
Speaker 6: the stylization of those worlds is part of what makes

1026
00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:45,120
Speaker 6: a film so exciting.

1027
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:48,880
Speaker 5: And like, while acknowledging that yes, obviously the cruise ship

1028
00:57:48,920 --> 00:57:53,160
Speaker 5: is CGI, as is that odd hotel with the stairs

1029
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:57,600
Speaker 5: to nowhere in Egypt, like both also look like they

1030
00:57:57,640 --> 00:58:00,320
Speaker 5: could be models, you know, Like the design of them

1031
00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:03,760
Speaker 5: has a look of like this is something that could

1032
00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:07,160
Speaker 5: have been built in a movie from the nineteen thirties,

1033
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:09,480
Speaker 5: perhaps in film as a model, you know, and it's

1034
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:13,240
Speaker 5: obviously created here in CGI. But it felt to me

1035
00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:15,960
Speaker 5: in the moment anyway, that it was more evoking the

1036
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:20,080
Speaker 5: feeling of filmed models than of ooh, I'm just going

1037
00:58:20,160 --> 00:58:22,320
Speaker 5: to press a few buttons on this computer and have

1038
00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:24,920
Speaker 5: a scene, you know, And also just real quick to

1039
00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:27,920
Speaker 5: note with Frankenstein, and Bride of Frankenstein in particular, is

1040
00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:30,320
Speaker 5: that you know, James Whale had had a background in

1041
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:33,040
Speaker 5: set design. He came from the theater, and he wasn't

1042
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:37,680
Speaker 5: like necessarily designing these sets himself, but he certainly had

1043
00:58:37,720 --> 00:58:40,800
Speaker 5: ideas and put into them. And I think it would

1044
00:58:41,240 --> 00:58:45,440
Speaker 5: make sense if he were of the mind that you know,

1045
00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:48,000
Speaker 5: you should know these are sets. You should recognize that

1046
00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:51,520
Speaker 5: this was built by human hands, and you should appreciate that,

1047
00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:56,960
Speaker 5: so you know, when you wrinkly fabric and all, well.

1048
00:58:56,800 --> 00:59:00,520
Speaker 4: We're running very long, and we should we should past

1049
00:59:00,640 --> 00:59:03,080
Speaker 4: a few of these just in terms of, like we

1050
00:59:03,560 --> 00:59:06,440
Speaker 4: discussed at kind of at length with both of these films,

1051
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:10,120
Speaker 4: how humor in camp is being used to communicate the

1052
00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:14,120
Speaker 4: story and like lighten it up a little bit. Both

1053
00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:17,160
Speaker 4: of these well, all three of these movies, maybe not

1054
00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:21,360
Speaker 4: so much, maybe just Bride and Poor Things have their

1055
00:59:21,480 --> 00:59:24,880
Speaker 4: campy elements to them, and it's kind of an important

1056
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:28,560
Speaker 4: part of how they keep some of the darker ideas

1057
00:59:28,640 --> 00:59:31,880
Speaker 4: like accessible in light. Both of these movies again about

1058
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:36,320
Speaker 4: people playing god, about people with God complexes who can't

1059
00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:39,840
Speaker 4: foresee that their you know, twisted feenish experiments will go

1060
00:59:39,960 --> 00:59:43,240
Speaker 4: wrong because they haven't thought that far ahead, you know.

1061
00:59:43,320 --> 00:59:46,800
Speaker 4: It's none of these movies are about long term advance planning.

1062
00:59:47,080 --> 00:59:50,840
Speaker 4: They're kind of about people wanting to see the results

1063
00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:54,080
Speaker 4: of a short term experiment and then being left with

1064
00:59:54,120 --> 00:59:57,280
Speaker 4: a long term experiment. And you know, both of these

1065
00:59:57,320 --> 01:00:00,920
Speaker 4: movies also just very much about the mob out you know,

1066
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:05,920
Speaker 4: conventional thinking and how people react, how they enforce normalcy,

1067
01:00:06,600 --> 01:00:10,400
Speaker 4: how they enforce what they've been raised to understand the truth,

1068
01:00:10,920 --> 01:00:15,040
Speaker 4: sometimes so aggressively that you know, it results in buildings

1069
01:00:15,080 --> 01:00:19,960
Speaker 4: being burned down. There's kind of a terror of groupthink

1070
01:00:20,080 --> 01:00:22,920
Speaker 4: and the mob that runs through both of these movies

1071
01:00:23,240 --> 01:00:26,040
Speaker 4: that I think is one of one of the darker elements.

1072
01:00:26,280 --> 01:00:28,600
Speaker 4: But maybe we could wrap up with a pretty small

1073
01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:30,720
Speaker 4: connection that Geneviev pointed out.

1074
01:00:30,760 --> 01:00:34,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, specifically between Bride of Frankenstein and Poor Things. This

1075
01:00:34,360 --> 01:00:37,840
Speaker 5: does not apply to Frankenstein, Get Out of Here Frankenstein, but

1076
01:00:38,360 --> 01:00:42,600
Speaker 5: both films have a sort of pivotal scene where music

1077
01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:46,080
Speaker 5: is a tool of expressing humanity, or of allowing our

1078
01:00:46,080 --> 01:00:50,000
Speaker 5: protagonists to kind of understand and see humanity in a

1079
01:00:50,040 --> 01:00:52,600
Speaker 5: new way. We talked kind of at length about the

1080
01:00:52,920 --> 01:00:56,320
Speaker 5: cabin scene in Bride of Frankenstein. I don't think we

1081
01:00:56,760 --> 01:00:59,840
Speaker 5: mentioned that the monster is drawn to the cabin by

1082
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:04,760
Speaker 5: the hermit playing a beautiful, little little violin, And the

1083
01:01:04,840 --> 01:01:09,880
Speaker 5: monster is specifically drawn in by the music, and as

1084
01:01:09,920 --> 01:01:13,080
Speaker 5: a result of that, he develops a language, he understands, friendship,

1085
01:01:13,120 --> 01:01:15,400
Speaker 5: He you know, maybe starts to like have a sense

1086
01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:18,360
Speaker 5: of what love and safety and all these other sort

1087
01:01:18,360 --> 01:01:22,720
Speaker 5: of base human needs are. And music is what brought

1088
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:26,760
Speaker 5: him to that. And in Poor Things, one of Bella's

1089
01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:30,840
Speaker 5: early excursions alone out into the streets of Lisbon, she

1090
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:34,400
Speaker 5: is drawn to a woman singing and playing an instrument

1091
01:01:35,160 --> 01:01:38,080
Speaker 5: that I forgive me, I can't remember which, like on

1092
01:01:38,120 --> 01:01:40,640
Speaker 5: the on the balcony, and it's sort of this moment

1093
01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:43,919
Speaker 5: of a quiet that sort of like recenters her in

1094
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:48,200
Speaker 5: this like you know, very chaotic, confusing experience for her

1095
01:01:48,240 --> 01:01:50,600
Speaker 5: and kind of brings her back down to earth and

1096
01:01:50,720 --> 01:01:53,320
Speaker 5: lets her see like kind of the beauty of what's

1097
01:01:53,320 --> 01:01:56,400
Speaker 5: happening around her too. So and both are you know,

1098
01:01:56,600 --> 01:02:01,160
Speaker 5: wordless moments divorced from from language or export nation or

1099
01:02:01,280 --> 01:02:04,320
Speaker 5: anything sort of than that like base drive, that base

1100
01:02:04,520 --> 01:02:05,880
Speaker 5: language of music.

1101
01:02:06,040 --> 01:02:07,760
Speaker 4: You know, that's a connection that we didn't touch on

1102
01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:11,160
Speaker 4: at all. That We did kind of mention in both

1103
01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:13,480
Speaker 4: of the separate segments in terms of how both of

1104
01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:18,760
Speaker 4: these movies are very much about language acquisition and language development.

1105
01:02:18,920 --> 01:02:21,240
Speaker 4: I keep saying both of these movies, as the Frankenstein

1106
01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:23,480
Speaker 4: and Brida Frankensteiner are one movie. But you get what

1107
01:02:23,520 --> 01:02:29,480
Speaker 4: I've patted me like into some sort of twisted madamalgam

1108
01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:31,560
Speaker 4: once again, now I know what it is like to

1109
01:02:31,640 --> 01:02:34,680
Speaker 4: be god. Both of these movies just about, you know,

1110
01:02:35,080 --> 01:02:39,240
Speaker 4: people who can't talk as well as as other people,

1111
01:02:39,280 --> 01:02:42,840
Speaker 4: and as a result, are like demonized and monsterized and

1112
01:02:43,840 --> 01:02:46,320
Speaker 4: have a lot of people reacting to them in very

1113
01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:52,720
Speaker 4: assumptive ways, whether it's Dunkin you know, seeing Bella as

1114
01:02:53,080 --> 01:02:56,600
Speaker 4: kind of a conquest and a creature because she has

1115
01:02:56,600 --> 01:02:59,400
Speaker 4: so little language herself, or people assuming that the monster

1116
01:02:59,560 --> 01:03:03,439
Speaker 4: like must be aggressive because it can't explain itself. These

1117
01:03:03,480 --> 01:03:07,840
Speaker 4: are both movies about language and the importance of language

1118
01:03:07,880 --> 01:03:11,600
Speaker 4: and again the sort of acquisition of language over time.

1119
01:03:11,680 --> 01:03:14,440
Speaker 5: And it's all thanks to the universal language of music.

1120
01:03:15,720 --> 01:03:18,400
Speaker 4: It's funny that you should mention the universal language, given

1121
01:03:18,400 --> 01:03:21,600
Speaker 4: that to the Frankenstein's and the many Frankensteins that followed

1122
01:03:21,600 --> 01:03:26,440
Speaker 4: are universal pictures. I planned that, but regardless, that's an

1123
01:03:26,480 --> 01:03:28,760
Speaker 4: excellent note to end on. So we're going to use

1124
01:03:28,760 --> 01:03:32,960
Speaker 4: our acquired language to wrap this up. Frankenstein and Brida

1125
01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:35,960
Speaker 4: Frankenstein are both available on Dividi and Blu Ray, and

1126
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:39,480
Speaker 4: they're widely available on streaming rental services. Poor Things is

1127
01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:44,880
Speaker 4: currently in theaters.

1128
01:03:46,840 --> 01:03:50,080
Speaker 2: Tomorrow morning is knocking stalk your fridge. Now, how about

1129
01:03:50,080 --> 01:03:53,480
Speaker 2: a creamy mocha Rappacinia drink or a sweet vanilla smooth

1130
01:03:53,600 --> 01:03:57,600
Speaker 2: caramel maybe or white chocolate mocha, whichever you choose, delicious

1131
01:03:57,640 --> 01:04:00,760
Speaker 2: coffee of wits. Find Starbucks Rappacino drinks wherever you buy

1132
01:04:00,760 --> 01:04:01,440
Speaker 2: your groceries.

1133
01:04:06,240 --> 01:04:08,560
Speaker 4: Finally, it's time to recommend a film or film related

1134
01:04:08,600 --> 01:04:11,360
Speaker 4: item that complements this set of episodes. We call it

1135
01:04:11,400 --> 01:04:13,440
Speaker 4: your next Picture Show in the hopes that it'll put

1136
01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:16,960
Speaker 4: some interesting choices on your radar. Scott take us away.

1137
01:04:17,520 --> 01:04:20,160
Speaker 6: Well, we had some Poor Things called it to mind,

1138
01:04:20,200 --> 01:04:22,960
Speaker 6: a couple of different movies to me that saw the

1139
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:27,240
Speaker 6: world and saw society from the eyes of basically a child.

1140
01:04:27,200 --> 01:04:29,600
Speaker 6: There's someone who didn't really who hadn't been part of

1141
01:04:29,600 --> 01:04:33,920
Speaker 6: that world before, and they're both made by significant auteurs

1142
01:04:34,080 --> 01:04:38,680
Speaker 6: in the early seventies called one is The Wild Child

1143
01:04:39,160 --> 01:04:43,360
Speaker 6: by Francois Trafoe. This is about a child who has

1144
01:04:43,560 --> 01:04:46,360
Speaker 6: spent the first eleven or twelve years of his life

1145
01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:49,480
Speaker 6: with little to no human contact and who has sort

1146
01:04:49,480 --> 01:04:51,840
Speaker 6: of taken out of that situation and then sort of

1147
01:04:52,040 --> 01:04:56,080
Speaker 6: taught to be part of society. And then the other

1148
01:04:56,120 --> 01:04:59,200
Speaker 6: one is the Werner Herzog film called The Mystery of

1149
01:04:59,280 --> 01:05:01,720
Speaker 6: Casper Hauser. This is nineteen seventy four. It's you know,

1150
01:05:01,760 --> 01:05:03,920
Speaker 6: it's either they called The Mystery Casper Hauser or the

1151
01:05:04,040 --> 01:05:07,520
Speaker 6: Enigma of Casper Hauser. It's also called my favorite title

1152
01:05:07,560 --> 01:05:10,840
Speaker 6: for it is every Man for himself and God against All.

1153
01:05:11,960 --> 01:05:14,160
Speaker 6: Always wanted to see the I always wanted to see

1154
01:05:14,160 --> 01:05:16,760
Speaker 6: the film based on that. This is actually based on

1155
01:05:16,800 --> 01:05:19,840
Speaker 6: a somewhat of a true story, but it is about

1156
01:05:19,960 --> 01:05:23,560
Speaker 6: Casper Hauser, who has lived the first seventeen years of

1157
01:05:23,600 --> 01:05:27,520
Speaker 6: his life life basically chained up in a tiny cellar

1158
01:05:27,720 --> 01:05:30,640
Speaker 6: with only a tory horse to occupy his time, and

1159
01:05:30,720 --> 01:05:33,160
Speaker 6: so when he is sort of brought out into the world,

1160
01:05:33,280 --> 01:05:36,880
Speaker 6: he is also wild and people don't know how to

1161
01:05:37,040 --> 01:05:41,800
Speaker 6: kind of interpret his behavior. These films are very different experiences,

1162
01:05:41,880 --> 01:05:46,040
Speaker 6: just as you would expect from Trefoe or from Hertzog,

1163
01:05:46,160 --> 01:05:49,600
Speaker 6: But they are both also expressions of how each of

1164
01:05:49,640 --> 01:05:54,520
Speaker 6: those directors understand civilization and society and are both very

1165
01:05:54,560 --> 01:05:59,320
Speaker 6: much like poor Things and giving us essentially a knafe,

1166
01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:02,560
Speaker 6: you know, having to find their way in the world.

1167
01:06:02,600 --> 01:06:06,680
Speaker 6: That added more advanced age and and so it would

1168
01:06:06,680 --> 01:06:08,880
Speaker 6: have been fun to talk about either one of about

1169
01:06:08,880 --> 01:06:11,120
Speaker 6: either one of those. They're both very much worth while.

1170
01:06:11,280 --> 01:06:13,479
Speaker 6: Though I should say that The Wild Child is actually

1171
01:06:13,560 --> 01:06:16,040
Speaker 6: kind of hard to find, very unfortunate. Uh so you

1172
01:06:16,120 --> 01:06:17,640
Speaker 6: might have to you might have to go to some

1173
01:06:17,720 --> 01:06:20,680
Speaker 6: interesting sources for that. Mister Casper Hauser, you can find anywhere.

1174
01:06:20,760 --> 01:06:22,560
Speaker 6: Have you you all seen these? Are they? One of

1175
01:06:22,560 --> 01:06:23,560
Speaker 6: these movies I've.

1176
01:06:23,400 --> 01:06:26,720
Speaker 4: Seen Casper Hauser and strong recommend I have not seen

1177
01:06:26,720 --> 01:06:27,360
Speaker 4: The Wild Child?

1178
01:06:27,920 --> 01:06:31,880
Speaker 6: Yeah, Wildchild. Wild Child's another just a wonderful, super accessible

1179
01:06:32,080 --> 01:06:35,320
Speaker 6: trifeaux film like Small Change, which was also unavailable for

1180
01:06:35,360 --> 01:06:38,280
Speaker 6: the longest time until it surfaced briefly on Paramount Plus

1181
01:06:38,320 --> 01:06:40,520
Speaker 6: and then went away. These are really good movies that

1182
01:06:40,640 --> 01:06:42,720
Speaker 6: you know, you might want to watch a supplemental material

1183
01:06:42,720 --> 01:06:44,160
Speaker 6: Poor Things, because there's a lot, there's a lot to

1184
01:06:44,160 --> 01:06:44,800
Speaker 6: talk about there.

1185
01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:47,040
Speaker 4: Well, we did break format. This time, we could have

1186
01:06:47,080 --> 01:06:50,320
Speaker 4: broken format even more and matched Poor Things up with

1187
01:06:50,440 --> 01:06:53,680
Speaker 4: four movies and given everybody all of the homework. But

1188
01:06:53,880 --> 01:06:57,520
Speaker 4: somehow we could not stitch quite that many you know,

1189
01:06:57,720 --> 01:07:01,800
Speaker 4: rogue elements together into two ones, single monstrosity. This podcast

1190
01:07:01,800 --> 01:07:04,840
Speaker 4: would be six hours long. We're already running pretty long,

1191
01:07:04,960 --> 01:07:08,240
Speaker 4: but thank you Scott for those recommendations. If you out

1192
01:07:08,240 --> 01:07:11,200
Speaker 4: there listening want to do a pair up of Poor

1193
01:07:11,240 --> 01:07:13,760
Speaker 4: Things and four other movies, you're certainly welcome to do.

1194
01:07:13,840 --> 01:07:21,880
Speaker 4: So that's it for this edition of the Next Picture Show.

1195
01:07:22,200 --> 01:07:24,520
Speaker 4: We'll be back next time, not with a pair of episodes,

1196
01:07:24,520 --> 01:07:26,880
Speaker 4: but with a single one off. We'll be coming back

1197
01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:29,680
Speaker 4: with our best movies of twenty twenty three roundup, and

1198
01:07:29,720 --> 01:07:32,240
Speaker 4: we'll figure out our next pairing after that when we

1199
01:07:32,240 --> 01:07:35,440
Speaker 4: see what lands in January. Once again, we would be

1200
01:07:35,520 --> 01:07:38,080
Speaker 4: interested in hearing what you most want us to talk

1201
01:07:38,080 --> 01:07:41,920
Speaker 4: about of the one hundred thousand interesting movies that came

1202
01:07:41,920 --> 01:07:45,560
Speaker 4: out in December twenty twenty three, or are kind of

1203
01:07:45,600 --> 01:07:49,200
Speaker 4: carrying over to January. We welcome your feedback on Poor Things,

1204
01:07:49,280 --> 01:07:52,040
Speaker 4: on Frankenstein and Bride of Frankenstein, on anything else film

1205
01:07:52,080 --> 01:07:54,320
Speaker 4: related you'd like to talk about. Email us at comments

1206
01:07:54,320 --> 01:07:56,880
Speaker 4: at next pictureshow dot Net, or leave us a voicemail

1207
01:07:56,920 --> 01:07:59,840
Speaker 4: at seven seven three two three four nine seven three

1208
01:08:00,080 --> 01:08:02,920
Speaker 4: zero before we close out this week's episode. Where can

1209
01:08:02,960 --> 01:08:04,600
Speaker 4: we find everyone these days?

1210
01:08:04,840 --> 01:08:09,400
Speaker 6: Scott, you can find me at The Reveal in which

1211
01:08:09,400 --> 01:08:12,000
Speaker 6: I where I'm the uh you know, editor and co

1212
01:08:12,120 --> 01:08:15,280
Speaker 6: write along with our absent co host Keith Hipps. You

1213
01:08:15,280 --> 01:08:18,879
Speaker 6: can find my work at Vulture, at New York Times,

1214
01:08:19,120 --> 01:08:22,400
Speaker 6: Guardian other fine publications. You can find me on Twitter

1215
01:08:22,439 --> 01:08:27,439
Speaker 6: and at Scott Underscore Tobias. I'm also on TikTok at

1216
01:08:27,520 --> 01:08:31,639
Speaker 6: clout Chasers. Yeah, I'm I'm at cloud Chaser six six six.

1217
01:08:31,720 --> 01:08:35,360
Speaker 6: I just haven't used the account yet, but eventually, eventually

1218
01:08:35,439 --> 01:08:38,439
Speaker 6: I will. I'll I'm going to try to become TikTok

1219
01:08:38,520 --> 01:08:41,080
Speaker 6: famous and uh and then and I guess that will

1220
01:08:41,120 --> 01:08:44,439
Speaker 6: be my route to fame and fortune. I probably not

1221
01:08:44,439 --> 01:08:46,000
Speaker 6: gonna I'm probably not gonna use it. But if you

1222
01:08:46,080 --> 01:08:48,120
Speaker 6: but if you want to, there may be some activity

1223
01:08:48,160 --> 01:08:52,120
Speaker 6: at cloud Chaser six sixty six. That's me. Yeah, what

1224
01:08:52,160 --> 01:08:55,000
Speaker 6: about you and Jenevieve? Are you on TikTok?

1225
01:08:55,680 --> 01:08:58,400
Speaker 5: No? I am not. I went through a brief TikTok

1226
01:08:58,439 --> 01:09:02,680
Speaker 5: phase during like peak pandemic lockdown time, and I think

1227
01:09:02,720 --> 01:09:05,120
Speaker 5: because of that, I have just like too many negative

1228
01:09:05,120 --> 01:09:09,200
Speaker 5: associations with it. So I'm mostly just hanging out in

1229
01:09:09,280 --> 01:09:13,960
Speaker 5: the warm, mostly low stakes confines of Instagram these these days,

1230
01:09:14,000 --> 01:09:16,439
Speaker 5: and still thinking really hard about what my first Blue

1231
01:09:16,439 --> 01:09:19,519
Speaker 5: Sky post is gonna be once I once I can

1232
01:09:19,520 --> 01:09:23,760
Speaker 5: get to it. And I am actually filling my non

1233
01:09:23,920 --> 01:09:27,599
Speaker 5: social media hours with my work. That's a TV editor

1234
01:09:27,640 --> 01:09:30,320
Speaker 5: at Vulture and you, Tasha.

1235
01:09:30,120 --> 01:09:34,120
Speaker 4: I am the film editor at Polygon dot Com. I'm

1236
01:09:34,120 --> 01:09:37,480
Speaker 4: on Blue Sky at Tasha Robinson. I'm not on Instagram,

1237
01:09:37,520 --> 01:09:41,360
Speaker 4: I'm not on TikTok. Hey, I'm on Goodreads Tasha Robinson there,

1238
01:09:41,640 --> 01:09:44,240
Speaker 4: come hit me up. I'm always looking for people to

1239
01:09:44,360 --> 01:09:49,160
Speaker 4: trade interesting book recommendations with, and I do actually write

1240
01:09:49,160 --> 01:09:52,559
Speaker 4: a fair bit of stuff over there. Strangely enough, our

1241
01:09:52,560 --> 01:09:55,560
Speaker 4: abs and co host Keith Phipps is a part of

1242
01:09:56,080 --> 01:10:02,519
Speaker 4: What's What's it called again, Scott the Reveal Revel and

1243
01:10:02,680 --> 01:10:06,160
Speaker 4: he is a freelancer who's all over the place at GQ, Vulture,

1244
01:10:06,240 --> 01:10:08,680
Speaker 4: The Ringer, and many other sites. You can find him

1245
01:10:08,680 --> 01:10:12,040
Speaker 4: on both Twitter and Blue Sky at KFIPS three thousand,

1246
01:10:12,280 --> 01:10:14,280
Speaker 4: stay updated on the next picture Show at Next Picture

1247
01:10:14,320 --> 01:10:16,240
Speaker 4: Show dot net and on Blue Sky at the Next

1248
01:10:16,320 --> 01:10:19,639
Speaker 4: Picture Show. Get bonus content and opendiscussion at Patreon dot

1249
01:10:19,680 --> 01:10:22,640
Speaker 4: com slash Next Picture Show. As always, we appreciate your

1250
01:10:22,720 --> 01:10:25,920
Speaker 4: ratings and reviews on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever

1251
01:10:25,960 --> 01:10:28,080
Speaker 4: you listen to the show. Thanks to Dan the Bake

1252
01:10:28,200 --> 01:10:30,960
Speaker 4: Jakes for his assistance in producing this podcast. The Next

1253
01:10:31,000 --> 01:10:32,880
Speaker 4: Picture Show is proud to be part of Film Spotting

1254
01:10:32,960 --> 01:10:35,280
Speaker 4: family of podcasts. Please tune in next time