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Speaker 1: Also media.

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Speaker 2: Hey everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted to let

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Speaker 2: you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode

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Speaker 2: of the week that just happened is here in one

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Speaker 2: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

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Speaker 2: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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Speaker 2: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 2: there's going to be nothing new here for you, but

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Speaker 2: you can make your own decisions.

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Speaker 3: Hi.

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Speaker 4: Everyone, welcome to the podcast. It's me James today and

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Speaker 4: I'm very fortunate to be joined by Francis, whose husband

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Speaker 4: Amos is facing a date in immigration court this week.

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Speaker 4: We wanted to bring you a first time perspective of

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Speaker 4: what it's like going through immigration court right now. So Francis,

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Speaker 4: thank you for joining us.

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Speaker 5: Thank you, thank you so much for having me.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, of course, we're very glad you're here. So to

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Speaker 4: start with, like, would you like to explain your families

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Speaker 4: and it's a lengthy topic, family's immigration story.

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Speaker 5: Yes, I met my husband Amos in the Hollywood. We

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Speaker 5: were both living in Hollywood and we dated a couple

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Speaker 5: of years there and then ended up moving to his

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Speaker 5: home country of Tunisia because he had a big family

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Speaker 5: there and I don't have much family here and we

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Speaker 5: wanted to have children. It's much better cost of living there,

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Speaker 5: and at the time the government there was doing pretty well.

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Speaker 5: There had been an Arab Spring, which my husband was

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Speaker 5: very much involved with on this over here in the States,

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Speaker 5: like helping with that, and so he's an activist, and

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Speaker 5: at the time the government there was pretty good. So

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Speaker 5: we lived there for eight years, had our children there,

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Speaker 5: and a new presidency came in while we were living there,

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Speaker 5: the current president Caius said, and things started to change.

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Speaker 5: So my husband was doing a lot of organizing grassroots

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Speaker 5: movement through local farmers' unions and monitoring elections, doing pro

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Speaker 5: democracy activities for anti corruption and he's really an activist

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Speaker 5: for free speech and things like that. So he started

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Speaker 5: getting harassed. He was arrested, he was beaten up by

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Speaker 5: the police and things like that. So it started getting

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Speaker 5: very uncomfortable. Also, I was getting harassed. I would get

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Speaker 5: pulled over a lot by the police. They would impound

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Speaker 5: our car, they would take us out. Yeah, the police

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Speaker 5: there carry big guns, you know, as in most Arab countries,

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Speaker 5: and so it was very frightening for me. Yeah, they

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Speaker 5: carry big guns. They're either on their backs or even

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Speaker 5: in their hands, and they would have me and the

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Speaker 5: kids get out of the car, and it was very frightening. So, yeah,

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Speaker 5: the children and I, well, we were all planning on

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Speaker 5: coming back to the States. I hadn't been home in

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Speaker 5: a while, and so the children and I went ahead

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Speaker 5: and came, assuming that my husband would be able to

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Speaker 5: get at least a visa to you know, see us.

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Speaker 5: And while once we were here, he was not able

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Speaker 5: to get a visa. He tried and tried and tried,

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Speaker 5: and I was begging the embassy to allow him to

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Speaker 5: see us here, and they just would not. So we

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Speaker 5: were separated for nine months. So him being away from

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Speaker 5: our children they were about four and six at the time,

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Speaker 5: or maybe five and seven. It was devastating for all

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Speaker 5: of us. So he ended up taking a very treacherous

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Speaker 5: journey across South America and made his way through many

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Speaker 5: countries and presented himself for asylum at the border, because

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Speaker 5: again we did not feel safe living in Tunia anymore.

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Speaker 5: So he presented himself for asylum at the border and

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Speaker 5: they allowed him into this country with a court date.

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Speaker 5: And at the time Biden was president, so things are,

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Speaker 5: you know, have changed a lot since then. You know,

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Speaker 5: the immigration system is broken. Everybody knows that. It takes

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Speaker 5: years and years and years, tons and tons of money

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Speaker 5: for an immigrant to you know, go through the process.

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Speaker 5: You know people who say, oh, just do it the

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Speaker 5: right way. It's not that simple. It takes a lot

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Speaker 5: of money and a lot of time, and it's very complicated.

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Speaker 5: And when you're fleeing a country or a situation where

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Speaker 5: you're in danger, there is no other option, you know,

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Speaker 5: there's nowhere to go back. So that's what we're kind

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Speaker 5: of facing now. So he had a court date. We've

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Speaker 5: had five master hearings, and we've gone through a few

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Speaker 5: different lawyers because we have found, for one thing, it's

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Speaker 5: extremely difficult to find a lawyer these days because they're

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Speaker 5: very overbooked. Most of them are not taking new cases.

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Speaker 5: People tell us, oh, just get a pro bono lawyer.

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Speaker 5: It is almost impossible to get a pro bono lawyer anymore.

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Speaker 5: And you know, who has thousands and thousands of extra

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Speaker 5: dollars to pay for legal help with the situation. We

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Speaker 5: do have a lawyer now, thinks to some fundraising that

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Speaker 5: we've done so since he's been here, we've had to

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Speaker 5: check in at the ICE office, Like it was on

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Speaker 5: sort of a basis of after you have a court

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Speaker 5: hearing the next day or within a couple of days,

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Speaker 5: you must go check in it ICE. And it's been

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Speaker 5: very fine, like the there's a very nice officer there

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Speaker 5: who knows us and help tries to help answer our questions.

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Speaker 5: So it was pretty calm when Biden was president. And

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Speaker 5: then now that Trump's administration has taken over, we knew

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Speaker 5: that there would be a lot of changes and we

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Speaker 5: were very frightened. So we went for a hearing earlier

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Speaker 5: this year. You know, we're just a lot more nervous.

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Speaker 5: And the hearing went fine, just kind of as normal.

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Speaker 5: We went to the ICE check in. I think our

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Speaker 5: guard was kind of down because we thought, since the

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Speaker 5: hearing went fine, this will go fine. Yeah, and the

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Speaker 5: nice officer told us, you know, well this is going

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Speaker 5: to sound a little scary, but we need you to

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Speaker 5: go check in at a different place this time. And

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Speaker 5: so they sent us to a comp called ICE app.

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Speaker 5: They own i think migrant detention centers. So we went

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Speaker 5: to this place and he was there the whole day.

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Speaker 5: They were interviewing him. They put an app in his phone,

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Speaker 5: so that now he has to do these weekly check

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Speaker 5: ins where his phone makes this loud alarm sound. He

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Speaker 5: must stop everything and take a picture of himself. There's

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Speaker 5: a monthly home visit where they come to our house

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Speaker 5: and take his picture and ask him questions. There's we

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Speaker 5: have to go check in at their office, and also

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Speaker 5: he does virtual check in, so it's just a lot

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Speaker 5: more and everything was kind of going as planned. We

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Speaker 5: are last hearing in July. That was really stressful because

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Speaker 5: we didn't have a lawyer leading up to it, and

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Speaker 5: at the last second we were able to get a lawyer.

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Speaker 5: And the reason it's so important to have a lawyer

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Speaker 5: is because if you don't, you must appear in person,

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Speaker 5: and that's very stressful and frightening. Again, we have small children.

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Speaker 5: We don't even do babysitters, like we're always just together

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Speaker 5: that we're a very tight family unit, and so we

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Speaker 5: go to these things together. And we really wanted this

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Speaker 5: last one in July to be virtual because if it's virtual,

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Speaker 5: you know, it just feels a lot safer. We're in

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Speaker 5: the comfort of our own home and we've been hearing

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Speaker 5: in the news, you know, how they're picking up people

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Speaker 5: outside of their court hearings. So we got the attorney,

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Speaker 5: we got a virtual hearing. It was a very short hearing.

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Speaker 5: It was great because she just gave us the next

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Speaker 5: hearing date was September of twenty twenty eight, and the

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Speaker 5: judge said, Okay, see you in twenty twenty eight, and

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Speaker 5: we breathed a sigh of relief, cross our fingers, did

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Speaker 5: our necessary check ins, and we were just you know,

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Speaker 5: hoping that everything would be fine. Well just here at

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Speaker 5: the end of August beginning of September, we get out

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Speaker 5: of the blue a new notice. It was very interesting too,

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Speaker 5: because this iceapp company calls us and says, good news,

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Speaker 5: We're gonna lessen the amount of check ins you have

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Speaker 5: to do. It's going to be a lot less now. So,

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Speaker 5: you know, it was interesting because she's like, this is

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Speaker 5: great news for you. She like once a month, you'll

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Speaker 5: still do the weekly ones, and then it's just going

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Speaker 5: to be once a month, okay. But then she says,

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Speaker 5: and then we'll see you after your hearing in September,

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Speaker 5: meaning this September. And we thought it was a mistake

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Speaker 5: because we knew we had one in twenty twenty eight. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: like no no, you got a new hearing notice. So

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Speaker 5: that's how we found out. They didn't send it to us.

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Speaker 5: Even our lawyer didn't know. So we find out that

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Speaker 5: we have a new hearing out of the blue. There

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Speaker 5: was a mix up about the dates, but anyway, it

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Speaker 5: was September eleventh or fifteenth, and then our attorney asked

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Speaker 5: for an extension right and the most they could give

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Speaker 5: us was nine days. So now our hearing is this

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Speaker 5: coming Wednesday, September twenty fourth and on. This has never

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Speaker 5: happened before, but when again, when you have an attorney,

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Speaker 5: you can appear virtually, and on this hearing notice it

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Speaker 5: said that the attorney can appear virtually, but the respondent

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Speaker 5: must appear in person, and that is highly unusual. It's

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Speaker 5: in bold at the top. So our attorney agrees with

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Speaker 5: us that it's pretty clear. The plan is. What they've

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Speaker 5: been doing now is when you go to court, they

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Speaker 5: drop your case. So now it's dismissed, and therefore you

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Speaker 5: are just here without due process, and like now you

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Speaker 5: don't have a right to do process. It's done, so

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Speaker 5: you're just here illegally, and then they are sometimes waiting

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Speaker 5: for you in the hallway or outside the building to

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Speaker 5: take you to iced attention. So obviously, since we found

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Speaker 5: this out, I mean, we've just been sleepless nights, full

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Speaker 5: panic mode of figuring out like what to do, and

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Speaker 5: then our attorney doesn't even have answers for us. She

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Speaker 5: does not know what to do. She says, this is

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Speaker 5: all new to her, it's new to all the lawyers.

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Speaker 5: She doesn't even know what to do or who to ask.

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Speaker 5: And that's frightening, because that's why we have an attorney,

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Speaker 5: you know. It's we're hoping for some support or someone

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Speaker 5: who's knowledgeable about the law and what our options, and

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Speaker 5: it feels like we don't have any. We feel extremely helpless,

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Speaker 5: and I've never thought I would see this in my country,

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Speaker 5: my quote unquote free country that I have lived in

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Speaker 5: most of my life and grew up in. Also, about

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Speaker 5: two weeks ago, they changed the law where now we

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Speaker 5: are not entitled to a bond hearing, so if he

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Speaker 5: is taken into detention, we can't even get him out,

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Speaker 5: because that was the first thing we thought was, well, well,

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Speaker 5: let's just try to get some money together and we'll

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Speaker 5: bail him out. Yeah, that's not even an option anymore.

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Speaker 5: So again more fear. So we're dealing with all of

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Speaker 5: this and wondering what to do as far as you know. Again,

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Speaker 5: we have small children. They're now seven and nine years old.

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Speaker 5: We're extremely happy where we're living. We live in a

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Speaker 5: small community that does lean on the conservative side, so

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Speaker 5: we do feel a little uncomfortable with some of our

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Speaker 5: neighbors and their flags and everything. They're very bold, so,

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Speaker 5: you know, and you can't high being brown, so it's awkward.

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Speaker 5: And then our children because of the way that we

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Speaker 5: left before. When we left Tunisia, it was pretty sudden.

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Speaker 5: We kind of took them out of school and just

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Speaker 5: came to America and left their dad behind. So they've

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Speaker 5: been in therapy ever since. They each have a weekly

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Speaker 5: therapist just to help with if they're you know, if

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Speaker 5: they're going to have any symptoms of trauma coming up

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Speaker 5: for them. And they're doing great. Actually, they're thriving here.

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Speaker 5: They are so happy. They are in the best school.

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Speaker 5: I actually work at their school, and my husband volunteers

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Speaker 5: at the school and he's been their soccer coach for

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Speaker 5: both of their teams, which was a lot to take on.

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Speaker 5: He also volunteers in our community at a ranch, helping

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Speaker 5: with horses and at a facility for senior citizens. And

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Speaker 5: he does have a work permit. They granted him a

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Speaker 5: work permit, which took a long time to get.

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Speaker 4: That's good because I can take a long time.

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Speaker 5: It took a long time, over a year, but he

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Speaker 5: does have it now. So we got excited because he

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Speaker 5: only got the work permit a couple months ago. So

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Speaker 5: we're very excited. You know, he can work. And now

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Speaker 5: it's just out of the blue, our world has turned

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Speaker 5: upside down where there's a strong potential that he will

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Speaker 5: be taken into ice custody. And listen, I understand if

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Speaker 5: that's how they want to do things now, but if

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Speaker 5: it was like a safer situation where maybe they.

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Speaker 6: Just I don't know.

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Speaker 5: It's just there's so many unknowns about where are they

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Speaker 5: taking him. There's our lawyer does not think we will

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Speaker 5: be informed about where they take him. That's one thing

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Speaker 5: which means we probably won't be able to communicate with him.

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Speaker 5: We don't know how long he'll be there. They could

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Speaker 5: keep him there the entire three years until twenty twenty eight.

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Speaker 5: They might just want to keep him in detention and wait,

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Speaker 5: you know, for his next year. It doesn't make any

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Speaker 5: sense to me because that costs money, and he's a

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Speaker 5: tax payer. Wouldn't it pay more if he's home working.

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Speaker 5: By the way, yes, he has no criminal record whatsoever.

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Speaker 5: He has not broken any immigration laws at least when

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Speaker 5: he came over the border. It was legal to present

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Speaker 5: yourself for asylum when you are coming from a country

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Speaker 5: like he was where he was, you know, being harassed,

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Speaker 5: detained right and his entire family like we were being

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Speaker 5: threatened and feeling very unsafe there.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, it's a textbook asylum place, right.

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Speaker 5: Like, Yeah, we have a valid asylum claim. We've submitted

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Speaker 5: hundreds of documents of evidence to the court. You know.

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Speaker 5: The judge actually complimented us on how well we did

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Speaker 5: because at the time we didn't have an attorney. We

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Speaker 5: were just trying to do it on our own because

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Speaker 5: we couldn't afford an attorney. We were both college graduates.

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Speaker 5: So we put together a really organized, you know case.

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Speaker 5: And so I have filed to sponsor him as well,

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Speaker 5: you know, as my husband. We've been together twelve years,

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Speaker 5: married ten two kids, and they don't care about that.

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Speaker 5: It does not matter if he has an American family,

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Speaker 5: it does not matter. They are taking anybody, and that

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Speaker 5: also is very, very frustrating, and that's the reason that

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Speaker 5: we should have due process. They should be looking at

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Speaker 5: every single case individually and have a judge make a decision.

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Speaker 5: That's the whole point of it. Obviously, if we had hindsight,

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Speaker 5: if we had known that this could have happened, we

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Speaker 5: had no idea that this could have happened in our country,

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Speaker 5: we would have started this sponsorship process a long time ago.

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Speaker 5: The reason we didn't is because he was married before,

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Speaker 5: and he went through this process with USCIS to try

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Speaker 5: to get sponsorship with his first wife, and it was

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Speaker 5: extremely compli and frustrating and cost a lot of money,

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Speaker 5: and he went through a bunch of lawyers and he

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Speaker 5: was so traumatized by the experience that literally we had

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Speaker 5: big legal files in our house that I had to

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Speaker 5: hide because he couldn't even see them or he would

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Speaker 5: get triggered. So he didn't want to put me through that.

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Speaker 5: And we were living in Tunia anyway, and so we

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Speaker 5: just figured we were just kind of kicking the can

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Speaker 5: down the road, thinking, oh, we'll deal with it at

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Speaker 5: some point. Unfortunately, we waited way too long and you know,

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Speaker 5: didn't start dealing with it until he got here, and

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Speaker 5: so USCIS, which is where we you know, file for

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Speaker 5: this sponsorship.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, US Customs Immigration Service people know familiar.

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Speaker 5: Yes, thank you. After we filed that, they gave us

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Speaker 5: a time period on when we would get the decision.

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Speaker 5: It was fifteen months that we would have to wait.

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Speaker 5: And we've been checking the site, checking the site, checking

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Speaker 5: the site, has been counting down, counting down, and about

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Speaker 5: a month ago we were down to a week oh well, okay,

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Speaker 5: that we would be getting a decision. And after the

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Speaker 5: week passed, it changed the message on the app now

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Speaker 5: or the website now says and definitely you'll have to

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Speaker 5: wait indefinitely for this decision. So we've been trying to

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Speaker 5: ask our lawyer please push for this because if that

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Speaker 5: gets you an answer, that would be great. But the

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Speaker 5: answer could be no on that as well. They could

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Speaker 5: just say no, come on in and they can take

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Speaker 5: him straight from there as well. So the whole thing

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Speaker 5: is so incredibly stressful and frightening the fact that my government,

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Speaker 5: I'm in America, I'm an American citizen with two American kids,

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Speaker 5: and my government is threatening to tear our family apart

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Speaker 5: and take my husband away the father of my children

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Speaker 5: and traumatize my children again to have their dad not

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Speaker 5: with us, and Lord knows where they're going to send him.

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Speaker 5: It is absolutely infuriating, and it feels like agony too,

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Speaker 5: because like every day I wake up and I'm counting

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Speaker 5: down the days to this hearing and we have no

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Speaker 5: idea what's going to happen. Right, it feels very very

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Speaker 5: threatening to our safety and our livelihood, and that it's

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Speaker 5: coming from our government does not make me feel like

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Speaker 5: this is a great country to live in and I

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Speaker 5: do not feel safe living here.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, thanks for sharing all that. That's a lot, yeah

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Speaker 4: to have to put out there, so thank you for

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Speaker 4: sharing it. I guess we should just explain for people,

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Speaker 4: like there's a lot of stuff that maybe people who

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Speaker 4: haven't been through this system might not not grasp within

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Speaker 4: that right. So what the government has if I just

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Speaker 4: break down, like the dismissal of cases as I understand

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Speaker 4: that what the government has been doing has been dismissing

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Speaker 4: people's asylum case right which they got under Title eight

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Speaker 4: when they entered and added by the administration, and then

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Speaker 4: placing them in expedited removal proceedings, Yes, which is a

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Speaker 4: mandatory detention as you said, right, it's not a bailout situation.

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Speaker 4: And then as you say, forcing them to fight from detention, right,

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Speaker 4: which in this case would obviously stop your husband from working,

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Speaker 4: stop your husband from paying taxes, and instead make him

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Speaker 4: a burden on the American taxpayer while he's detained in

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Speaker 4: conditions which can often be very poor. In that situation.

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Speaker 4: You're only sort of claim is a credible fear of torture, right,

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Speaker 4: which is something that in your case it sounds like

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Speaker 4: would be very real. But nonetheless, that is a very

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Speaker 4: high bar, and we've seen the United States do all

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Speaker 4: kinds of things to get around that. We were put

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Speaker 4: on that all the time, so I can understand that

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Speaker 4: fear and where it comes from. I think people will

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Speaker 4: be shocked, but they perhaps shouldn't be to hear that, Like, yes,

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Speaker 4: you can be a US citizen married to a non

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Speaker 4: US citizen. This can still happen to you. It can

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Speaker 4: happen to anyone who is not a citizen in this

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Speaker 4: country right now. I wonder like it must have been

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Speaker 4: pretty heartbreaking to see the election, to see the rhetoric,

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Speaker 4: like how does that line up with your lives in

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Speaker 4: your community? Because I see this often even from really

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Speaker 4: conservative people, right, Like I know people who voted for

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Speaker 4: Trump who have also shown up to like cook for

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Speaker 4: asylum seekers in the desert or to help refugees living

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Speaker 4: in our community. Like it's a very strange thing. Have

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Speaker 4: you felt alienated from your community since the beginning of

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Speaker 4: this year, Like I'm interested in, like how your lives

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Speaker 4: have changed because of that change in rhetoric.

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Speaker 5: Yes, Like I said, we have neighbors on our streets.

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Speaker 5: So there was a block party for Fourth of July,

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Speaker 5: which I didn't even feel like celebrating, but we had

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Speaker 5: just moved into this house, so we felt, you know,

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Speaker 5: like we should go at least meet the neighbors. And

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Speaker 5: there's a lot of Trump flags on our street, and

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Speaker 5: it was very awkward. But my husband is very charming

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Speaker 5: and charismatic and outgoing, and he just goes right up

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Speaker 5: and introduces himself. And there was one gentleman wearing a

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Speaker 5: T shirt that said they hate us because they ate us,

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Speaker 5: and it's got a big old, you know, Trump face

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Speaker 5: on it, and it was just so so awkward. So yeah,

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Speaker 5: we feel uncomfortable. Also, like I said, it's a lean's

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Speaker 5: conservative in this community. And our school. Even like, as

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Speaker 5: we're doing this fundraiser, we were very careful not to

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Speaker 5: share it with anyone that we live near, just in case,

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Speaker 5: you know, because we have been hearing reports of people

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Speaker 5: like neighbors calling ice on their neighbors to you know,

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Speaker 5: report them and you know, go pick up this person.

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Speaker 5: You know, he looks brown or I don't know what

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Speaker 5: they're what they're doing or their logic, but you know, yeah,

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Speaker 5: it feels very threatening. And even oh, my daughter even said,

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Speaker 5: can't Data just cover up his skin? You know, like

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Speaker 5: she was just thinking like, yeah, was he gonna wear

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Speaker 5: her cup? Yeah?

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Speaker 7: Right?

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Speaker 5: I mean, you can't really hide who you are, and

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Speaker 5: you shouldn't have to.

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Speaker 4: Right, And it's very hard for the kids to be

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Speaker 4: saying that, yeah, the dad should be hiding.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: And they've asked me, how can we make Trump just

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Speaker 5: forget about Data, you know, and I said, well, he

383
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Speaker 5: doesn't really know. They don't you know, he doesn't know

384
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Speaker 5: exactly your dad. He's they're doing this to a lot

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Speaker 5: of people. You know. We just happen to be in

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Speaker 5: that group. But I will say we have some close

387
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Speaker 5: friends that we really adore, and they are Trumpers, you know,

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Speaker 5: we see it on their Facebook page, but then when

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Speaker 5: we're in their presence, they don't bring it up, and

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Speaker 5: it's just kind of an elephant in the room. And honestly,

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Speaker 5: as our current data is getting closer, we plan on

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Speaker 5: having them over to talk about it because it feels

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Speaker 5: very awkward, and I just think they're there's the kindest people.

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Speaker 5: They're extremely religious, which which we are not when we're

395
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Speaker 5: on the spiritual side, But you know, I think they're

396
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Speaker 5: just they're just on a team. They've chosen a team,

397
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Speaker 5: and I don't think they're necessarily paying a lot of

398
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Speaker 5: attention to what's actually happening to people. So we're hoping

399
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Speaker 5: that just a conversation will just let them know. We

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Speaker 5: want to be honest with the people that are close

401
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Speaker 5: to us, and that mean a lot to us, you know,

402
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Speaker 5: because we don't know what's about to happen. And even

403
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Speaker 5: there's members of my family that I feel very awkward

404
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Speaker 5: talking to as well, where I'm kind of distanced myself

405
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Speaker 5: because people who are still supporting this regime at this

406
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Speaker 5: point to me, are too far gone to even kind

407
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Speaker 5: of get them to come around. I guess, I mean,

408
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Speaker 5: I just don't understand I can't understand support of Trump

409
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Speaker 5: from the first place. So again, if people are still

410
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Speaker 5: on that boat, I really don't relate to them, and

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Speaker 5: it's very awkward. Especially, Yeah, people in my family who

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Speaker 5: supposedly love me and my children, you know, are still

413
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Speaker 5: supporting that regime, and despite seeing all the things, maybe

414
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Speaker 5: they don't see it. I mean, I know they if

415
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Speaker 5: they are exclusively watching Fox News, then they are only

416
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Speaker 5: receiving that information, which is not telling the whole story, right,

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Speaker 5: and it's definitely completely skewed to make them look the

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Speaker 5: good guys, and anyone on that's liberal is a bad guy.

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Speaker 5: And they're very much targeting, you know, Democrats now as

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Speaker 5: the enemy, the enemy of the state. They have even said.

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Speaker 5: So it's I mean, it's so now I'm starting to

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Speaker 5: feel even nonsafe for myself because I'm I'm not super

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Speaker 5: active on Facebook, but I am outspoken because I can't resist.

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Speaker 5: I mean, it's there is freedom of speech in this country,

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Speaker 5: or at least there was, and there should be. And

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Speaker 5: it's hard to be quiet at this time. And we

427
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Speaker 5: would be a lot more outspoken if we weren't feeling unsafe.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but you have that fear, yes.

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Speaker 5: Yes, especially my husband, because he's always been an activist

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Speaker 5: and a you know, fighter for free speech and equal rights,

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Speaker 5: and so it's that's one of the things that's really

432
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:54,439
Speaker 5: crushing him and his soul and his spirit through all

433
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:58,399
Speaker 5: this is that he cannot even speak out. So, you know,

434
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:01,439
Speaker 5: for people like him. It's not even for himself, but

435
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 5: just for people like him. I know he wants to help,

436
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,400
Speaker 5: you know, and it's really challenging.

437
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 4: I know, it's so sad to see the whole point

438
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,880
Speaker 4: of the asylum system and like, at least the sort

439
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,919
Speaker 4: of stated purpose of American foreign policy, it's sort of

440
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,240
Speaker 4: spread democracy throughout the world and allow people that have

441
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:20,920
Speaker 4: stood up for democracy and been persecuted to come here

442
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 4: and be safe. And evidently the United States doesn't even

443
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 4: believe in saying that anymore, in so much as it

444
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:30,680
Speaker 4: said it didn't always do it in the past. Yeah,

445
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,200
Speaker 4: it is really sad to think that, like even that

446
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,879
Speaker 4: it's gone. Yeah, for so many people, I think the

447
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,439
Speaker 4: idea of migrants is like an abstract one, right for

448
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,679
Speaker 4: your Fox News viewer, Migrants are just like an abstract

449
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,680
Speaker 4: brownskin bad person. And I often think that if those

450
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 4: people had known migrants in their community, they would either

451
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:51,040
Speaker 4: not vote that way, or they would at least not

452
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,640
Speaker 4: like that policy. There are other things they liked about Trump,

453
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 4: which it goes that's not something I can find much

454
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:02,159
Speaker 4: understanding of. But yeah, people do exist. But it's just

455
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,800
Speaker 4: so sad to see like people turned against anyone who

456
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:09,439
Speaker 4: wasn't born in this country. Yeah, it's simply because they were,

457
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:11,920
Speaker 4: not because of any any other character trait.

458
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:14,639
Speaker 5: They have, particularly the brown skin though, because you have

459
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 5: to admit the Canadians. I mean, even though there's been

460
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:20,240
Speaker 5: a little dungeon with the Canadians at first in this regime,

461
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 5: you know, they're they're pretty much under the radar and

462
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,920
Speaker 5: anyone from Europe or anyone. He's even said, like send

463
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,400
Speaker 5: a Nordic people, that's fine, you know, I mean, he's

464
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 5: he's very clear, right, Yeah, the South African refugees are welcome.

465
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 5: Come on. It's just so blatant, you know. And and

466
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 5: I remember when I was growing up, my mom in particular,

467
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,199
Speaker 5: would would complain when when we started to have to

468
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 5: press one for English. I remember my mom complaining about

469
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:51,640
Speaker 5: that or thinking, you know, you know, if you're here,

470
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 5: you should learn the language. Well, I got to say,

471
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 5: I lived in Tunisia for eight years and I did

472
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:58,680
Speaker 5: not learn the language. I tried to teach myself. It's

473
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,120
Speaker 5: a dialect that you know, the time. They didn't have

474
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 5: lessons that you could get on YouTube or duo lingo

475
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:08,120
Speaker 5: or anything. You know, if I learned French and Arabic,

476
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,640
Speaker 5: maybe I could piece something together. But I you know,

477
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,880
Speaker 5: it's not as easy as people say.

478
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:16,719
Speaker 4: And yeah, yeah, yeah.

479
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,400
Speaker 5: And then just to speak of my mother, I guess

480
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 5: I'll say she prides herself on making friends with people

481
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 5: at the grocery store who are of another ethnicity, or

482
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,679
Speaker 5: like really you know, getting to know a doctor. Or

483
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,920
Speaker 5: she has a housekeeper who's been working for her for

484
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,360
Speaker 5: like thirty years, and so I know she doesn't think

485
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:42,200
Speaker 5: of that person as being someone that shouldn't be here, right,

486
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 5: So you know, so I think even if you do

487
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,720
Speaker 5: know a family or two who's who's an immigrant, you

488
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 5: might think, oh, well, not them. I don't mean them,

489
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:52,919
Speaker 5: I mean allo other ones. I mean all the bad guys.

490
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:54,639
Speaker 4: Yeah, the bad ones.

491
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:58,400
Speaker 5: Yeah. And if Trump was serious about getting the bad

492
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 5: ones go to the gang nameihoborhoods, like we do know

493
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 5: where the dangerous gang neighborhoods are. But they're not sending

494
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:10,120
Speaker 5: the tanks there, They're sending them to MacArthur Park, you know, yeah,

495
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:13,440
Speaker 5: home depot. It's like, if you want to get the gangs,

496
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,119
Speaker 5: get the gangs. But I think they're too scared of

497
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,880
Speaker 5: that because these are really just regular people that they're

498
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 5: hiring to do this work for them to pick up people.

499
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:24,919
Speaker 5: And that's why they're hiding their faces, because they are

500
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:28,159
Speaker 5: regular people who would like to probably have a normal

501
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 5: life outside of this new job that they've been so

502
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 5: well paid.

503
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:36,200
Speaker 4: For, right Yeah, and certainly they're they're recruiting a lot

504
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 4: more people to do that right now, which is going

505
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:40,440
Speaker 4: to only see a step up in enforcement.

506
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 3: Yeah.

507
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:54,879
Speaker 4: I wonder like in so much of anything has helped

508
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:57,239
Speaker 4: because people will want to help, right Like, I think

509
00:27:57,280 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 4: people will listen, they will understand a situation, they will

510
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 4: see the possibility of your family being torn apart and

511
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 4: want to help. But it's hard to help right now.

512
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 4: Runless you're an immigration lawyer, and every pro bono immigration

513
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 4: lawyer I know is mental health damaging levels. Have overworked

514
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 4: and stressed and traumatized. I think, so what can people

515
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:21,640
Speaker 4: do either for you or in their communities to show

516
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 4: up for people who are in your situation.

517
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 5: I would say donate. You can donate to the ACL,

518
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 5: you donate to individual families like ours. I'm sure. I

519
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,240
Speaker 5: think there's a lot of gofundmes out there that people

520
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:35,159
Speaker 5: are trying to raise money for. That's the way, you know,

521
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 5: everything is kind of done these days when people are

522
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 5: desperate and speak out, and I think the most important

523
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 5: thing is have conversations and get to know people and

524
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 5: even like, yeah, sometimes I see, you know, a Hispanic

525
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 5: person in a grocery store. I just wanted to tell them,

526
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 5: thank you for being here. I'm glad you're here, because

527
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 5: I think they must be feeling so scared right now

528
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 5: and so unwanted and so unappreciated when they are doing

529
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 5: some of the hardest jobs that nobody else wants to

530
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 5: do for very little money. Yeah, these are essential workers

531
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 5: that he should be paid the most. Everything is backwards,

532
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 5: you know, the people who are doing the hardest, you know,

533
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 5: cleaning the toilets and picking the fields, they should be

534
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 5: paid the most. It doesn't make any sense. Regardless of

535
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 5: where they're from, they're willing to do the work, and

536
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 5: Lord knows their background of where they came from and

537
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 5: how the struggles that they've been through to leave their

538
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 5: home country. Nobody wants to leave their home country. You

539
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 5: do that because it's so bad that you must, you know,

540
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 5: especially if you have children. You're trying to make a

541
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 5: better life for yourself. And we've been sold on this

542
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 5: American dream prospect. You know that we've heard our whole

543
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 5: lives and the whole world is hurt about So they

544
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 5: come and now we're just punishing them brutally. It's not

545
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 5: even like, oh, no, sorry, we're full. You know, we're

546
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 5: gonna have to send you back. It's like, no, we're

547
00:29:58,040 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 5: going to punish you. We're going to treat you like

548
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 5: daw call you animals and vermin, and call you horrible things. Yeah,

549
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,239
Speaker 5: send you to places where you're unsafe and untaken care of,

550
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 5: and maybe, if you're lucky, you'll get sent back to

551
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 5: your home country, or you'll get sent to a random

552
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 5: country or even a prison, like a horrible prison in

553
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 5: another country where who knows what's good. It's just this

554
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 5: is what frightens me. You know again, if he was

555
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 5: sent to somewhere, to a place where I could you know,

556
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 5: we could have visits or calls or you know, and

557
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 5: he waits it out. I guess that would be more

558
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 5: tolerable than the unknown of his his safety. He's not

559
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 5: going to be well taken care of. That's a fact.

560
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 5: They don't care about these people. And my husband, unfortunately,

561
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 5: he's always been extremely strong, extremely brave, a fighter, and

562
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 5: I feel like his fight is gone. He's physically and

563
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 5: mentally at the end of his rope, and I'm extremely frightened.

564
00:30:57,680 --> 00:30:59,959
Speaker 5: I mean, he just feels like he's tired of fighting.

565
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 5: He's just exhausted from this, you know. Again, I mean

566
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 5: we've been together twelve years, and again he was going

567
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 5: through this process with his first wife, who he was

568
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 5: with for eight years, and he never got an answer.

569
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 5: He was never denied, but he just never got an answer,

570
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 5: and that was enough for them for our case, just

571
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 5: to you know, it's going to be really, really difficult

572
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 5: to get a yes for a green card.

573
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I mean it still happens. I've heard of

574
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 4: it happening even in the last few months, but it

575
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 4: is increasingly harder and less common, and that is brutal. Yeah,

576
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 4: Like it's horrible and the way, of course, as you're saying,

577
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 4: system is designed to make you feel hopeless and just

578
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 4: to as they call it self, deport.

579
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 5: Yes, and even our lawyer doesn't know what to do.

580
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,719
Speaker 5: And I feel the judge seems like a nice person,

581
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 5: and I would imagine it must be very frustrating too

582
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 5: to be a judge at this time where they have

583
00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 5: to be the ones that are just kind of their

584
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 5: hands are tied. They will lose their job if they

585
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 5: don't do what the regime wants them to do. So,

586
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 5: you know, this is what happens in third world countries.

587
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 5: This is why America has been great because we weren't

588
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 5: like this before. With this, you know, cutting out free

589
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 5: speech and things like that. It's it's changing rapidly and

590
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 5: if people don't stand up more, and I'm sorry, but

591
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 5: it's going to have to take more than these peaceful protests. Unfortunately,

592
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 5: because they're not doing anything. We are being laughed at

593
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 5: by the Maga Republicans. They do not care about our

594
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 5: peaceful protests. They're just like, Okay, there's a protest on

595
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 5: this day. Next day, They're just going to keep doing

596
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 5: it harder, you know.

597
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 4: Sure, Yeah, it's not.

598
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 5: Changing anything, so something has to change. I'm hoping more

599
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 5: celebrities come out and start speaking up. I think that

600
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 5: would help, because people tend to back the celebrities that

601
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:57,479
Speaker 5: they love, and I'm kind of alarmed that more people

602
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 5: like especially the most powerful celebrities like Oprah, for example,

603
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 5: Why aren't they out there every day, you know, saying

604
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 5: this is what I support and this is what I

605
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 5: don't support. I think they're scared.

606
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 4: I'm assuming I would imagine, So what a sad thought.

607
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 5: I do think that the mega Republicans are outnumbered, and

608
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,960
Speaker 5: I think that they're continuously going to be outnumbered as

609
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 5: things get more and more you know, shocking, as we're

610
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 5: seeing our freedoms being stripped, the constitutional freedoms that we've

611
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 5: always known being stripped. I think it's going to get worse,

612
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 5: and I don't know how about it has to get

613
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 5: before change happens.

614
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't think any of us do. I do

615
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:40,719
Speaker 4: think you're right. The more and more people are not

616
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 4: happy with HAVS is happening, but there doesn't even seem

617
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 4: to be a well among Democrats to oppose this in

618
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 4: a meaningful way. Yeah, she's very.

619
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 5: Sad and like, yeah, even the Democrats in power don't

620
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 5: know what to do, I mean.

621
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, and they seem to think that it's electoral suicide,

622
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 4: just to be basically decent and say we need to

623
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 4: be decent people and kind to people who come here

624
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 4: asking us to help them. There seems to be something

625
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:09,839
Speaker 4: that is just inadmissible in lictoral politics, which is really sad.

626
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 4: Right now, Yeah, so you guys have your court date.

627
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 4: We will obviously continue covering this.

628
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 5: Thank you so much.

629
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:19,799
Speaker 4: We get We're going to continue updating people. We will

630
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:24,319
Speaker 4: continue talking about this and then covering this, and yeah,

631
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 4: we'll try and get an update out. This is coming out.

632
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:29,400
Speaker 4: You'll be hearing this on Monday, and we will try

633
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:30,880
Speaker 4: and get an update out within a week or so,

634
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,880
Speaker 4: just to let everyone know how things have gone and

635
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 4: what they can do to help. Is there anything else

636
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 4: you'd like to say to people before we go?

637
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:42,439
Speaker 5: Yeah, so, as we found out, you know that there's

638
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 5: a good possibility that he will be taken into iced

639
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 5: attention on Wednesday. We ask our lawyer, Okay, so what

640
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,839
Speaker 5: are the next steps if that happens? What you know,

641
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 5: he has a constitutional right to do process of law

642
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 5: habeas corpus, and she doesn't know what to do. She's

643
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 5: never done it before. So therefore we need to find

644
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 5: a different lawyer that can help us with that. It's

645
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:07,400
Speaker 5: not in immigration court, it's federal court. So we have inquiries.

646
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:09,840
Speaker 5: We actually have a consult today with someone who maybe

647
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 5: help us with that. We sent emails out last night

648
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 5: kind of telling our story to another lawyer, hoping that

649
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 5: we can get some support and on that front, because

650
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:22,840
Speaker 5: basically that's your next your next step. Once you're in detention,

651
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:27,479
Speaker 5: you raise your constitutional rights of due process of law,

652
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 5: you know, but then again it's another fight and again

653
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 5: it could be from detention, which is yeah, more money.

654
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 5: I'm going to be at that point, a single mother,

655
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 5: you know, trying to support bills here in California, which

656
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 5: is already you know difficult, and you know, on my own,

657
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:51,360
Speaker 5: and also paying lawyers and trying to fight to either

658
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 5: find my husband or get him out of there. You know,

659
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,759
Speaker 5: we we don't want to leave the country if we

660
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 5: if we don't have to. We love it here. I

661
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:03,360
Speaker 5: don't know where else to go. We can't go to Tunisia.

662
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:07,239
Speaker 5: I'm American. Where are we supposed to go? Yeah, And

663
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:10,239
Speaker 5: that's what people don't understand too with immigrants, you know,

664
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:12,719
Speaker 5: if they can't return to their home country because of

665
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 5: safety reasons, which is most of the cases. That's why

666
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:19,840
Speaker 5: we have the silent cases. Then what are they supposed

667
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 5: to do? You know?

668
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I don't think a lot of people seem

669
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:25,840
Speaker 4: to care, right, they think people just want people to

670
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 4: go away somewhat, go figure it out.

671
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:29,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's not our problem.

672
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, which in this case it very much is

673
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 4: and in every case, and like it is our problem

674
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 4: that like we should take responsibility for one another as

675
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,879
Speaker 4: well being right, yes, as humans care about each other.

676
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, just have empathy at least that's the least we

677
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 5: could do.

678
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:49,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, I know a society that says it's not my problem,

679
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 4: it's not one that any of us should want to

680
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 4: live in.

681
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 3: Yeah.

682
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 5: Yeah. And in our case, my husband's particularly worried because

683
00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 5: if he does get sent back to Tunisia, most definitely

684
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:01,239
Speaker 5: he would be in jail there as well, which is

685
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 5: also not a pleasant experience yet to put it mouth

686
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 5: and it would be yeah, where they torture people in jail.

687
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 5: So yeah, again, we don't really know what to do

688
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,400
Speaker 5: or where to go. But these are the thoughts that

689
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 5: we're having.

690
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, and then not unreasonable.

691
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 5: Yeah, if we do self deport when do we, like

692
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 5: we're trying to push it as long as we can stay, stay, stay, stay, stay,

693
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 5: stay stay, you know, and then when do we let

694
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:27,680
Speaker 5: them know? Okay, okay, I guess we'll self deport, like

695
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 5: at the last second before they take them into detention, like,

696
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 5: you know, I don't know the safe way to do that, right,

697
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:36,799
Speaker 5: And then if we do, can they give us time

698
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:39,360
Speaker 5: to get our affairs in order, Like leaving the country

699
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:42,400
Speaker 5: is no small task, and we don't even have money

700
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,200
Speaker 5: to do that. So you know, these are our options.

701
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:49,399
Speaker 5: These are literally our options. And again, small children second grade,

702
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 5: fourth grade, you know, and they're thriving here, like they

703
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:56,799
Speaker 5: don't deserve this. And my husband even said, you know,

704
00:37:57,360 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 5: he said this the other day, like our children don't

705
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 5: deserve this, and I said, no, children deserve the horrors

706
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 5: of this planet, you know that. I mean, we're actually

707
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 5: a lot luckier than a lot of other children. So

708
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 5: but at the same time, there are children, and this

709
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 5: is the problem that we're dealing with, and unfortunately they

710
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:17,960
Speaker 5: have to deal with it too. You know, That's just

711
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 5: what a family is. Yeah, our goal is to stay

712
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 5: together no matter what. We want to keep my husband

713
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 5: safe and we want to keep us together. That's our

714
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 5: number one goal. So unfortunately, that may mean that we

715
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:35,840
Speaker 5: need to leave, and I will be very, very sad

716
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 5: if that's the case, because I have always left this country.

717
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 5: It's always stood for greatness, and ironically, the group that

718
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 5: thinks they're going to make America great again is failing miserably.

719
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:51,799
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's incredibly sad. And like you said,

720
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,360
Speaker 4: you've already up and left. Your children want, yes to

721
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 4: come to a safe place, to be safe, and then

722
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:58,360
Speaker 4: to have to do it again from that safe place.

723
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 4: I'm sure we'll be and the old they get more

724
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:01,880
Speaker 4: than they realized what's happening.

725
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:05,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's only two years later, you know, the poor kids.

726
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:09,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly. Who. I'm so sorry you're going through this.

727
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:10,279
Speaker 5: Ye, thank you.

728
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:13,359
Speaker 4: This sucks. We will be thinking of you.

729
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 5: Thank you very much.

730
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:17,279
Speaker 4: And yeah, if you're if you're listening, I will try

731
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 4: and keep you updated over the next few weeks.

732
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:20,880
Speaker 5: Thank you so much, James.

733
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:23,279
Speaker 4: All right, thank you, thank you for your time. I

734
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 4: appreciate it.

735
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, thank you.

736
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 2: Oh, welcome back. It could happen here a podcast where

737
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:50,319
Speaker 2: I just got vaccinated and boy, howdie the ship this

738
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 2: year hits like a fucking train.

739
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:55,360
Speaker 4: It does. I I go vaccinated it's it's it's a

740
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 4: rough one this year.

741
00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 2: Oh man. Yeah, fucking RFK Junior was right.

742
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 4: The vaccine injury today.

743
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:08,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. I've received by vaccine injury. I'm complaining

744
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 2: to the board. Oh man, I'm gonna nap after this.

745
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:16,760
Speaker 2: But first, how about we talk about fucking Trendy Aragua,

746
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:21,400
Speaker 2: the fucking narco criminal group that President Trump is currently

747
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 2: justifying blowing up boats in the middle of international waters

748
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:25,439
Speaker 2: as a result.

749
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:28,719
Speaker 4: Of Yeah, it's great. It's a good thing that we

750
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 4: are now killing civilians in countries where we are not

751
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:36,279
Speaker 4: at war with It's great.

752
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. This has been something Steven Miller had been talking

753
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:41,359
Speaker 2: about since the first Trump administration, you know, and had

754
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:43,920
Speaker 2: talked with like back when the military was willing to

755
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 2: push back against Trump more. People would be like you,

756
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 2: what the fuck are you talking about. We can't launch

757
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:51,239
Speaker 2: strikes at just like random boats, and Steve Miller be like,

758
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:54,760
Speaker 2: why not? And now they're doing it. Yeah, And this group,

759
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:59,400
Speaker 2: this criminal cartel out of Venezuela has been the current justification.

760
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:02,760
Speaker 2: As we'll talk about most of what is said about

761
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:07,359
Speaker 2: this Trendy Aragua by the administration about you know, their

762
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:09,919
Speaker 2: role in smuggling drugs in the United States is either

763
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 2: just completely invented or massively exaggerated. It is a really

764
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 2: interesting group. They have a fascinating like history. The literal

765
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:22,520
Speaker 2: meaning is train of arugua. Yeah, sorry, And it started

766
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:24,799
Speaker 2: out with like labor unions that were working on a

767
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:27,840
Speaker 2: railway project. It was going to be connecting central and

768
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:32,880
Speaker 2: western Venezuela together. And as has happened in history, what

769
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:36,160
Speaker 2: started as like labor union organizing wound up kind of

770
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:40,720
Speaker 2: morphing into a direct criminal activity. The guy who's generally

771
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:43,759
Speaker 2: credited as the founder, although that's kind of flattening things

772
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 2: a little bit, is Hector Guerrero Flores, known as Nino Guerrero,

773
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 2: and he he got put in for seventeen years for

774
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:55,319
Speaker 2: murder and drug trafficking at this prison called Tokron. Am

775
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 2: I am I saying that right, James, how.

776
00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 4: Do we see Tocron? Yeah, Sarenaxin.

777
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:00,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a little accent over the second and oh

778
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:06,240
Speaker 2: as you go up and down, up, thank you James.

779
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:07,320
Speaker 6: Yeah.

780
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:09,720
Speaker 2: And so this one of the things that's fun about

781
00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 2: this is that this prison where they start loading these

782
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:15,880
Speaker 2: guys up, becomes so heavily organized and it eventually turns

783
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 2: from being like a prison in the traditional sense to

784
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 2: more being like a tiny independent city that the gang

785
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 2: is based out of and acted as their fortress. They

786
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 2: established like night clubs in it, and you know, luxury facilities,

787
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 2: and like leaders of the gang more or less Cayman

788
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 2: went as they pleased, went back to their families, and

789
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 2: it was not really what you'd think of as a

790
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:40,720
Speaker 2: prison in the traditional sense for a lot of these guys.

791
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 2: For a while, a payment system was created in order

792
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 2: to like basically you would inmates would pay for protection

793
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:50,240
Speaker 2: or for access to the nicer aspects of the prison,

794
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 2: called the cause, and if you didn't pay, you know,

795
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:57,120
Speaker 2: they had various ways of physically abusing you. There's a

796
00:42:57,160 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 2: good article in Small Wars Journal that talks about the

797
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 2: org Jens and the impact of this group, and it

798
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 2: quotes someone from inside. The person is saying, the first

799
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 2: time you don't pay, they shoot your wrist, the second time,

800
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 2: your ankle, the third time, and you face the death penalty.

801
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:14,400
Speaker 2: So like you're talking like pretty traditional criminal gang stuff, right, Yeah,

802
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 2: So the journey of this group from gang that's major

803
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:23,120
Speaker 2: in Venezuela to gang that's kind of operating in larger

804
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:26,800
Speaker 2: and larger chunks of South America. Followed a pretty natural

805
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 2: path where they got involved in more kinds of smuggling

806
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:34,200
Speaker 2: and more kinds of trafficking. Over the years, started setting

807
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:38,480
Speaker 2: up operations in other parts of South America. But one

808
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:40,479
Speaker 2: of the things that the gang has sort of done

809
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:43,440
Speaker 2: is you've got this kind of process by which they

810
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:47,840
Speaker 2: have these local affiliates who are not directly associated with

811
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 2: the gang in like the strict hierarchical sense, and that

812
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 2: it's not literally the gang sending an official into another state.

813
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:57,799
Speaker 2: It's more like franchising is kind of the way things work,

814
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 2: and you have different local groups, some of whom are

815
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 2: not even connected in any way to the original organization,

816
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 2: claiming a line of descent in order to basically draft

817
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:10,359
Speaker 2: off of that clout.

818
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 6: You know.

819
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, which is kind of what you've seen increasingly,

820
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 2: And this has led to a situation where there's enough

821
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:19,880
Speaker 2: claims of trend being involved in the United States and

822
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 2: other countries that it looks a lot like a larger

823
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:27,760
Speaker 2: and more centralized criminal organization than it actually is in reality.

824
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think the state understands these things like mini states, right,

825
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:33,440
Speaker 4: like who like with a with a leader and a

826
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:37,240
Speaker 4: distinct authority structure and learn like a direct command chain.

827
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:41,239
Speaker 4: That is not how my understanding gainst it they operate, right,

828
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 4: because they are not mini states there. They are a

829
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:44,160
Speaker 4: different entity to that.

830
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, and what is your Because you've actually spent time

831
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:51,760
Speaker 2: reporting and in Venezuela, when did you first become aware

832
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:52,840
Speaker 2: of trend?

833
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 4: I mean I became aware of like the fact that

834
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 4: they were armed gangs at criminals. I mean I was

835
00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:00,200
Speaker 4: robbed at gunpoint when I was in Venezuela, right, so

836
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 4: that may be aware that that there were people who

837
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:06,359
Speaker 4: who did crime with weapons, But I wasn't aware really

838
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:11,240
Speaker 4: of trend that I were until like maybe the twenty twenty.

839
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 4: I mean, I don't report on organized crime, nor do

840
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:15,880
Speaker 4: I particularly follow it, right, But I take an interest

841
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 4: in Venezuelan affairs and as much as I've spent time there,

842
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:21,960
Speaker 4: and I have an affinity with the people, and I

843
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:24,479
Speaker 4: understand that things are getting going from bad to worse

844
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:27,360
Speaker 4: for them under their government, So so I took an interest.

845
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:30,279
Speaker 4: I guess it was like, are you familiar with a

846
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 4: Narco Sobrinos affair?

847
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:32,600
Speaker 6: No?

848
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 4: Okay, Narco Sobrinos is like Narco nephews. I think they're

849
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:40,600
Speaker 4: actually step nephews of Maduro if I recall correctly, it

850
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 4: doesn't hugely matter. They're like part of his family in

851
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 4: a mediate and I believe they lived in his compound

852
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:49,360
Speaker 4: and they used, like I don't want to make statements

853
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:51,680
Speaker 4: that are incorrect, that I believe they use a presidential

854
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:56,720
Speaker 4: hangar or runway to fly a plane to Haiti, which

855
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:00,080
Speaker 4: the USDA alleges, and it is most likely true that

856
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:02,440
Speaker 4: that that plane was stuff full of cocaine.

857
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:04,359
Speaker 2: Sure, many such cases.

858
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:06,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, many such cases. They believe they have diplomatic immunity,

859
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:09,880
Speaker 4: which they did not, which I believe came as a

860
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:12,600
Speaker 4: surprise to them at the moment of their detention. And

861
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:14,359
Speaker 4: so at that point I was like, shit, we can

862
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:16,840
Speaker 4: get onto this. How the Trump administration has like basically

863
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:21,040
Speaker 4: alled to Venezuela as a narco dictatorship. Certainly there is

864
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:25,400
Speaker 4: overlap between organized crime and the state. Right, It's because

865
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 4: the state is so poor and so corrupt that inevitably

866
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:32,160
Speaker 4: you will see like overlap between organized crime and the state.

867
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:35,360
Speaker 4: So I guess right, Whenever the knack of Sobrinos affair was,

868
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 4: I thought was like, okay, I need I need to

869
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:39,440
Speaker 4: sort of be aware of this. And of course, in

870
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 4: my like coverage of immigration, you hear of people mostly

871
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:47,799
Speaker 4: their talk is just not that their life has been

872
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:50,359
Speaker 4: made hard by organized crime, if I managed so much

873
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:53,480
Speaker 4: as their life has been made hard by the government

874
00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:58,160
Speaker 4: completely failing to provide services and the complete collapse of

875
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 4: the Venezuelan economy. I'm not going to ask about it explicitly,

876
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:03,719
Speaker 4: but if someone mentions it, I sort of take note

877
00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:06,080
Speaker 4: of it as one of the reasons why people are leaving.

878
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:07,680
Speaker 2: Would you bring up as a really good point, which

879
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:10,160
Speaker 2: is that twenty fourteen is kind of when the most

880
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:14,960
Speaker 2: recent Venezuelan economic crisis really kicked off, and in fourteen

881
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:17,880
Speaker 2: to twenty eighteen was a major period of growth for

882
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:20,600
Speaker 2: trend Ye, and then twenty eighteen to twenty twenty two

883
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:24,760
Speaker 2: is when they really started pushing up into and involving

884
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:27,560
Speaker 2: themselves increasingly in Colombia and the United States as a

885
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:30,800
Speaker 2: result of like the increased flow of Venezuelans out of

886
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 2: Venezuela and into other countries and eventually up to the

887
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:37,439
Speaker 2: US and to some extent, and it's been since twenty

888
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:39,800
Speaker 2: twenty two that the gang has really been pruned back,

889
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:42,360
Speaker 2: you know, both as a result of the Venezuelan government

890
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 2: taking control of the prison again and like basically invading

891
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 2: it with the military in order to deny them access

892
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:53,440
Speaker 2: to what had been like their primary centralized, like hub

893
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:55,880
Speaker 2: of control, and also due to the fact that, like

894
00:47:56,640 --> 00:48:00,840
Speaker 2: after expansion into Colombia and Chile, both criminal organizations and

895
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:04,879
Speaker 2: the governments of those countries increasingly pushed back against the organization, right, Yeah,

896
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:07,200
Speaker 2: one of the reasons why they're being targeted. But also

897
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:09,520
Speaker 2: one of the things that's like fundamentally bullshit about the

898
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:13,879
Speaker 2: administration's description of what's happening is that we're very much

899
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:16,319
Speaker 2: talking about a cartel that's on its back feet and

900
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:18,239
Speaker 2: been on its back feet for the last several years

901
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 2: as the result of significant reversals in their business and

902
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:22,280
Speaker 2: in their political situation.

903
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:26,759
Speaker 4: Yeah. I mean, Columbia has been near the Columbian Civil

904
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 4: War is one of the longest running conflicts in the world.

905
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:33,080
Speaker 4: But things have changed their substantially right in the last

906
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:36,320
Speaker 4: five or seven years. You know, you have people from

907
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:40,880
Speaker 4: the fuck disarming, You have the fracture of what was

908
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:43,359
Speaker 4: previously their territory, and some of who were previously their

909
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:46,960
Speaker 4: militants into other groups, right, And so that has allowed

910
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:51,960
Speaker 4: the state there to continue its conflict against what remains

911
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:54,280
Speaker 4: of that and also to clamp down other groups.

912
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 6: Right.

913
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:58,960
Speaker 4: And evidently, like the flow of drugs, United States relies

914
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:04,880
Speaker 4: on the complicity or inability to stop it of many states.

915
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:08,840
Speaker 4: And yeah, we've seen like a concerted effort and also

916
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:12,320
Speaker 4: like the attempts of the United States to stop smuggling.

917
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 6: Right.

918
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:15,520
Speaker 4: So, I guess if people aren't familiar, we should just

919
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:20,080
Speaker 4: explain the US DHS, of which the United States Coast

920
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:22,359
Speaker 4: Guard is part. I think a lot of people aren't

921
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:24,920
Speaker 4: aware the Coast Guard is part of DHS claims a

922
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:29,080
Speaker 4: universal jurisdiction or jurisdiction at least in areas where drugs

923
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:31,799
Speaker 4: are being smuggled to the United States, Right, So the

924
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:34,319
Speaker 4: US Coast Guard had a role to play in this.

925
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:36,960
Speaker 4: In the I guess interdiction is the word they would

926
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:40,320
Speaker 4: use of drugs coming to the United States. I probably

927
00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:42,920
Speaker 4: haven't got data on this in the last year or so,

928
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:45,399
Speaker 4: but it certainly was the case that most drugs entering

929
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:48,480
Speaker 4: the US entered through ports of entry as opposed to

930
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:50,719
Speaker 4: like between ports of entry, right, like through the desert,

931
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:54,160
Speaker 4: through the mountains and so like these these boats I

932
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:56,520
Speaker 4: guess are not just to be clear that they're not

933
00:49:56,600 --> 00:49:58,920
Speaker 4: necessarily going to the United States, and most skates are

934
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:00,440
Speaker 4: not going to United States and mostly to going to

935
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 4: Mexico and then moving to the United States through other methods.

936
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:06,600
Speaker 4: But like as the government both south of the United

937
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:09,440
Speaker 4: States and in the United States who adapted, it's become

938
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:12,719
Speaker 4: harder and harder for those people, right, And so it's

939
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:15,080
Speaker 4: become harder and hard for these criminal organizations to make

940
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:16,960
Speaker 4: money off these drugs.

941
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:19,960
Speaker 2: And that's led to, I mean a situation that one

942
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:22,399
Speaker 2: of the things that they've been accused of being by

943
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:25,799
Speaker 2: the Trump administration and internationally is essentially an agent of

944
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 2: the Maduro regime, right. And this is something that certainly

945
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:32,160
Speaker 2: the Venezuelan government denies. This is not a thing where

946
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:34,400
Speaker 2: I can you know, entirely give you this is exactly

947
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:36,960
Speaker 2: what's happened. But it seems accurate to say that as

948
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:41,200
Speaker 2: an organization, as their actual like control and power have

949
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 2: been eroded, they have been utilized increasingly as a way too,

950
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:48,480
Speaker 2: for example, deal with like dissidents who are hostile to

951
00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:52,480
Speaker 2: the Maduro regime right, as a deniable asset. In particular,

952
00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:56,840
Speaker 2: there's been cases that are reasonably well documented of dissidents

953
00:50:56,880 --> 00:51:00,279
Speaker 2: against the Venezuelan regime in Chile and trendy Aragua being

954
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:02,960
Speaker 2: used as like assassins to to take out dissonance in

955
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:06,319
Speaker 2: foreign countries in a deniable manner. Right, Yeah, And I

956
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:08,239
Speaker 2: mean it looks to me like this has kind of

957
00:51:08,239 --> 00:51:13,239
Speaker 2: increased as their actual ability to directly control things and

958
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:17,080
Speaker 2: directly contest the regime as a power center has been eroded.

959
00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:20,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's kind of a classic. Like I wouldn't say

960
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:24,919
Speaker 4: that like ideologically aligned, right, but sometimes their interests aligned, Yeah,

961
00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:29,800
Speaker 4: to be clearly, Like trend Agua are one of the

962
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 4: sort of armed organized crime institutions in Venezuela, but by

963
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:37,960
Speaker 4: far the only one, right you have, yeah, Trendliano for example.

964
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:40,320
Speaker 4: You have these other groups who have also been active

965
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:45,080
Speaker 4: in anti government protests, especially since the I'm going to

966
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:48,960
Speaker 4: use that quote unquote election here in July of last year, right,

967
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:52,840
Speaker 4: like where electoral fraud is widely alleged and I documented

968
00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:54,360
Speaker 4: that in my Daddy and series if people want to

969
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:57,359
Speaker 4: listen to that. But it's not like these two are

970
00:51:57,400 --> 00:52:00,440
Speaker 4: lot in lockstep. But yeah, like we can under stand

971
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:03,760
Speaker 4: that sometimes that they interest my aligne in those areas,

972
00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:06,759
Speaker 4: it may be beneficial for the regime to, like you say,

973
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:08,839
Speaker 4: to use him as a deniable asset.

974
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:11,680
Speaker 2: Right, which does not. Like, one of the things that's

975
00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:16,040
Speaker 2: kind of most frustrating is hearing them described as central

976
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:20,040
Speaker 2: to the smuggling of fentanyl into the United States. Which, like,

977
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:23,319
Speaker 2: even in kind of the most elaborate version of this

978
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:28,520
Speaker 2: group being utilized by the Venezuelan government is fanciful, right, Like,

979
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:31,440
Speaker 2: because Venezuela just doesn't have that much to do with

980
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:34,200
Speaker 2: the smuggling of fentinel into the United States. Yeah, Like,

981
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:38,120
Speaker 2: Venezuela and Venezuelan criminal organizations just aren't that involved in

982
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:42,080
Speaker 2: that process. That's not where it's coming from, right, Yeah,

983
00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:45,759
Speaker 2: And we'll talk some more about finnyl, But first, you

984
00:52:45,800 --> 00:53:01,200
Speaker 2: know what's kind of like fentanyl advertising. We're back and

985
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:05,919
Speaker 2: we're talking about fentanyl. Well, we're talking about like these

986
00:53:05,960 --> 00:53:08,759
Speaker 2: claims because that's the justification for why we need to

987
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:12,319
Speaker 2: airstrike these boats, the most recent of which we know

988
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:16,160
Speaker 2: was boarded by another government and had drugs on board

989
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:17,960
Speaker 2: it removed before it was struck.

990
00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:18,560
Speaker 4: Oh wow.

991
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:22,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, And we simply have no idea, no way to verify.

992
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:24,560
Speaker 2: I have no way to verify what the administration is

993
00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:27,120
Speaker 2: claiming about these boats. We're just seeing boats get blown up.

994
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:29,400
Speaker 4: But yeah, and everybody who was on that boat is

995
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:31,880
Speaker 4: no dead, so there's not many many people to contradict

996
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:34,520
Speaker 4: that story. Should we explain like the usual coast guard

997
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:35,120
Speaker 4: process for.

998
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:37,640
Speaker 2: Interdiction, Yeah, I think that's probably a good idea.

999
00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:39,920
Speaker 4: So generally, right, what the US Coast Guard is going

1000
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:42,960
Speaker 4: to do is they will have these large vessels from

1001
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:47,279
Speaker 4: which they will launch smaller vessels and helicopters to intercept

1002
00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:49,759
Speaker 4: craft right, like the most kind of I guess like

1003
00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:54,759
Speaker 4: famous charismatic other like Colombian like they call them Narco subs.

1004
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:57,560
Speaker 4: There's a semi submarines actually that that they're not like

1005
00:53:57,640 --> 00:54:01,080
Speaker 4: fully submersed, but they that much of the vessel is submerged.

1006
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:05,359
Speaker 4: What the coast Guard would normally do, to my understanding,

1007
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:08,520
Speaker 4: is to send a vessel to intercept them, be it

1008
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:11,000
Speaker 4: a helicopter or a boat or probably both. In most

1009
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:13,520
Speaker 4: cases I would imagine tell them to stop.

1010
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:14,040
Speaker 6: Right.

1011
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:16,640
Speaker 4: If they don't stop, the coast Guard will have like

1012
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:20,920
Speaker 4: a sniper who will shoot out the engine of the crafty.

1013
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:24,160
Speaker 4: They will then board. They will entertain the people. They

1014
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:27,839
Speaker 4: will obviously confiscate any drugs that they find, and then

1015
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:30,359
Speaker 4: they will take those people back to their vessel where

1016
00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:33,239
Speaker 4: they're detained, and then they'll be tried in the US. Right,

1017
00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:36,359
Speaker 4: and then they would normally it's they can't kind of

1018
00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:39,520
Speaker 4: scoop up all these ships that they've intercepted or semi

1019
00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:42,359
Speaker 4: subs or whatever, so they will normally destroy those and

1020
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:44,360
Speaker 4: scuttle them so they sink to the bottom of the ocean.

1021
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 4: I don't know how many cases they've done this in,

1022
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:50,440
Speaker 4: but that would be the normal procedure for Coast Guard.

1023
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:52,320
Speaker 4: It gets pre twenty twenty five.

1024
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:54,000
Speaker 2: It's got to be fun being a fish near one

1025
00:54:54,040 --> 00:55:00,080
Speaker 2: of those vessels, yeah, fish getting yeah, yeah, yeah, I

1026
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:01,800
Speaker 2: know what they do with all the ca And sometimes

1027
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:03,600
Speaker 2: they bring all the cocaine back for a photo op.

1028
00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:05,839
Speaker 4: You see that sometimes yeah yeah, yeah, that looks good.

1029
00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:09,600
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, it's nicely packaged. It's cocaine or fentanyl on

1030
00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:12,680
Speaker 4: the side or whatever. That is my understanding of what

1031
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:19,160
Speaker 4: was done previously. The strikes in the last month have

1032
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:22,239
Speaker 4: been extremely different, right, Yeah, And we're looking at I

1033
00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:25,480
Speaker 4: think fourteen people killed so far that we've had confirmed.

1034
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:28,920
Speaker 4: Although those numbers are certainly higher than the when you're

1035
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:31,360
Speaker 4: hearing them, right, because we've just had another strike in

1036
00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:32,800
Speaker 4: the last day or so that I don't think we

1037
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:35,760
Speaker 4: have exact numbers on how many people were involved. Yeah,

1038
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:39,520
Speaker 4: they used, from what I understand, drones from Special Operations

1039
00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:43,920
Speaker 4: Command to do these strikes, right, which in itself is

1040
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:48,880
Speaker 4: quite unusual. And then the strikes themselves consisted of did

1041
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:50,600
Speaker 4: they say what I guess it looks like a hell

1042
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:51,440
Speaker 4: fire missile.

1043
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:52,279
Speaker 2: But I don't know if they've said that looked like

1044
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:54,479
Speaker 2: health fires to me on the videos I've seen, Yeah,

1045
00:55:55,120 --> 00:55:58,359
Speaker 2: it's not exactly like high def video, but you see

1046
00:55:58,360 --> 00:56:00,319
Speaker 2: them striking like it looks kind of like a like

1047
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:03,920
Speaker 2: a it's a speedboat, right, like it's a surface vessel.

1048
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:06,960
Speaker 4: It's not a not a semi sub or a submarine.

1049
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:09,960
Speaker 4: It's unclear like what has happened before, at least I

1050
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:12,879
Speaker 4: haven't seen any reporting or what happened before, like whether

1051
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:14,399
Speaker 4: they got in order to stop. I think in one

1052
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:17,200
Speaker 4: case they had turned around right having noticed a drone

1053
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:21,440
Speaker 4: and begun returning towards the coast, towards Venezuela, I guess,

1054
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:24,640
Speaker 4: and they were still struck and it appears that in

1055
00:56:24,719 --> 00:56:29,880
Speaker 4: at least one case, the drone struck them again, like

1056
00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:33,440
Speaker 4: it hit them once and then returned for a second

1057
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:36,279
Speaker 4: run to hit I guess the survivors.

1058
00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:40,359
Speaker 2: Yeah. And you know, there's a couple of facts that

1059
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:44,000
Speaker 2: go alongside what we actually know in versus what the

1060
00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:49,000
Speaker 2: administration's claiming about. Eighty percent of people involved in the

1061
00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:52,200
Speaker 2: smuggling of illegal drugs into the United States are US citizens,

1062
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:55,600
Speaker 2: and then of the remaining twenty ish percent, a chunk

1063
00:56:55,600 --> 00:56:58,600
Speaker 2: of those are resident legal aliens. In the chunk are

1064
00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:03,080
Speaker 2: a mix of undocum limitted people, non citizens, or people

1065
00:57:03,080 --> 00:57:06,359
Speaker 2: whose status is unknown or extra dieded aliens. Right like,

1066
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:09,879
Speaker 2: this is based on the United States Sentencing Commissions data

1067
00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:13,359
Speaker 2: from twenty twenty four, and about eighty five percent of

1068
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:15,680
Speaker 2: drugs that are brought into the United States are smuggled

1069
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:17,600
Speaker 2: in at ports of entry. And this makes complete sense

1070
00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:20,120
Speaker 2: if you think about it, in part because it's pretty

1071
00:57:20,120 --> 00:57:22,360
Speaker 2: easy to track when you've just got like a boat

1072
00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:26,120
Speaker 2: trying to smuggle stuff into the country illicitly, and the

1073
00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:28,000
Speaker 2: people who are on that boat. If the art citizens

1074
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:30,760
Speaker 2: have no right to enter the country inherently, as opposed

1075
00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:33,040
Speaker 2: to citizens who do have a right to enter and

1076
00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:35,800
Speaker 2: ports of entry where there's a shitload of you want

1077
00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:38,200
Speaker 2: to hideen plane sight with this stuff? Right? Like it

1078
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:42,400
Speaker 2: just makes sense, like would you rather if you were

1079
00:57:42,640 --> 00:57:45,200
Speaker 2: smuggling a huge amount of illegal shit? Would you rather

1080
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:47,880
Speaker 2: be on your own with a van or a vehicle

1081
00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:51,240
Speaker 2: full of very illegal drugs, or would you rather be

1082
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:54,960
Speaker 2: like hiding amongst the billions of tons of shit that

1083
00:57:55,040 --> 00:57:58,439
Speaker 2: gets taken into this country every single year, right, Which

1084
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:01,400
Speaker 2: is why just the reaction of the data is so

1085
00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:04,240
Speaker 2: completely different than the administration makes it out to be.

1086
00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:07,880
Speaker 2: And obviously, foreign criminal organizations are heavily involved in the

1087
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:10,680
Speaker 2: smuggling of illegal drugs, particularly fentanyl in the United States,

1088
00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:13,120
Speaker 2: but we're talking primarily about like the Sinaloa cartel and

1089
00:58:13,160 --> 00:58:16,760
Speaker 2: then different criminal organizations involved in the smuggling of fentyel

1090
00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:18,320
Speaker 2: out of China, right, which is where a lot of

1091
00:58:18,320 --> 00:58:21,960
Speaker 2: fentanyl comes from. As opposed to again Venezuela, the government

1092
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:24,200
Speaker 2: here is going for low hanging fruit. I think as

1093
00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:27,280
Speaker 2: the conclusion I'm driven to just every time I read

1094
00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:29,560
Speaker 2: about this is that, like there doesn't seem to be

1095
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:33,440
Speaker 2: a better reason for focusing on this organization which really

1096
00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:35,640
Speaker 2: is just not that involved in crime in the United

1097
00:58:35,680 --> 00:58:38,760
Speaker 2: States nearly to the extent that groups like the Sinaloa

1098
00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:39,360
Speaker 2: Cartel are.

1099
00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:43,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, it offers a chance to demonize Venezuelan people, right,

1100
00:58:43,560 --> 00:58:46,920
Speaker 4: and Venezuelan people made up a large number of the

1101
00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:49,280
Speaker 4: people who came to the United States just the asylum

1102
00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:53,400
Speaker 4: under Biden. Because like, if we do believe that these

1103
00:58:53,440 --> 00:58:55,040
Speaker 4: like the word in Spanish would be like a mega

1104
00:58:55,040 --> 00:58:59,000
Speaker 4: bandas like megagangs are a serious threat to the well

1105
00:58:59,040 --> 00:59:01,640
Speaker 4: being a people in the United States, imagine how much

1106
00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:03,240
Speaker 4: more of a threat they are to the well being

1107
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:04,400
Speaker 4: a people in Venezuela.

1108
00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:05,120
Speaker 2: Right.

1109
00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:10,280
Speaker 4: And that combined with a government which objectively sucks, which

1110
00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:15,240
Speaker 4: also uses extra judicial violence, right, including in its battle

1111
00:59:15,240 --> 00:59:19,040
Speaker 4: against these gangs, leads people to want to leave and

1112
00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:23,240
Speaker 4: when they come here, the United States, especially the Trump regime,

1113
00:59:23,280 --> 00:59:27,000
Speaker 4: has been engaged in this demonization of migrants. Right, This

1114
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:31,160
Speaker 4: offers a very convenient narrative for that to say that

1115
00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:35,000
Speaker 4: these people are bringing crime here. The vast majority of

1116
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:38,280
Speaker 4: them are doing the exact opposite. They are coming here

1117
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:43,560
Speaker 4: because the state in Venezuela has extorted them, and slash

1118
00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:47,200
Speaker 4: or non state actors in Venezuela have extorted them. The

1119
00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:49,720
Speaker 4: vast bulk of the complaints I hear from Migran fro

1120
00:59:49,800 --> 00:59:53,680
Speaker 4: Venezuela about the state. They have no interest other than

1121
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:57,160
Speaker 4: working hard and receiving a decent living wage. For that,

1122
00:59:57,800 --> 01:00:01,880
Speaker 4: every Venezuelan person I spoke to almost no When I

1123
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:05,000
Speaker 4: ask what their American dream is, tell you that their

1124
01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:07,080
Speaker 4: American dream is to have a job that pays them

1125
01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:11,120
Speaker 4: enough to feed their family. Right, Like, we have next

1126
01:00:11,120 --> 01:00:15,120
Speaker 4: to no evidence of organized crime coming into the United

1127
01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:17,720
Speaker 4: States through the asylentists, and there are sure there will be,

1128
01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:20,480
Speaker 4: Like I would imagine a fraction of a single percent

1129
01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:23,760
Speaker 4: of cases, sure in which that is the case. But

1130
01:00:23,840 --> 01:00:27,000
Speaker 4: it's being used against all these Venezuelan people, right as

1131
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:29,120
Speaker 4: we've seen. And I guess I should just clarify that,

1132
01:00:29,160 --> 01:00:34,960
Speaker 4: like one thing about these megabandas that they're not like maras, right,

1133
01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:38,080
Speaker 4: Like so like MS thirteen being a mara, right, like

1134
01:00:38,680 --> 01:00:44,360
Speaker 4: a gang in which members are identified by certain tattoos.

1135
01:00:44,520 --> 01:00:47,640
Speaker 2: Oh my god, yes, this is tattoos and emojis.

1136
01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:51,960
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, yeah again, Like I understand that that is

1137
01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:54,560
Speaker 4: a thing that happens in some cases, but that is

1138
01:00:54,640 --> 01:00:57,000
Speaker 4: not a thing that is common to these gangs.

1139
01:00:57,000 --> 01:01:00,640
Speaker 2: No, it's it's certainly not common to trendy Aragua, right is,

1140
01:01:00,680 --> 01:01:04,040
Speaker 2: like the use of tattoos. There's not even widespread agreement

1141
01:01:04,080 --> 01:01:06,280
Speaker 2: among experts as to whether or not there's any sort

1142
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:11,200
Speaker 2: of centralized US based hierarchy for the group, right right, Yeah, Yeah.

1143
01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:14,880
Speaker 4: The tattooing is just as it is in the United States,

1144
01:01:14,920 --> 01:01:16,120
Speaker 4: and that sort of places it around the world. A

1145
01:01:16,160 --> 01:01:18,600
Speaker 4: very common practice in Venezuela. The people do for as

1146
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:22,280
Speaker 4: many reasons as there are people right to include because

1147
01:01:22,320 --> 01:01:24,680
Speaker 4: they love their mum, because they love their kids, because

1148
01:01:24,680 --> 01:01:27,120
Speaker 4: they're like a football team, because they are religious, et cetera,

1149
01:01:27,200 --> 01:01:31,120
Speaker 4: et cetera. That is why people get tattoos. It is

1150
01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:35,080
Speaker 4: not to indicate membership in any organization.

1151
01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:38,200
Speaker 2: No, and this is something that's verified. Again, Like one

1152
01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:41,880
Speaker 2: of the leading experts on trend is Jana Risquez, who

1153
01:01:41,920 --> 01:01:45,160
Speaker 2: wrote a book The trendy Aragua, The Gang that revolutionized

1154
01:01:45,240 --> 01:01:48,640
Speaker 2: organized crime in Latin America. She specifically told in O

1155
01:01:48,680 --> 01:01:52,440
Speaker 2: Tisis Telemundo during an interview, Venezuelan gangs are not identified

1156
01:01:52,440 --> 01:01:53,960
Speaker 2: by tattoos. To be a member of one of these

1157
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:56,880
Speaker 2: Venezuelan organizations, you don't need a tattoo. You can have

1158
01:01:56,920 --> 01:01:58,920
Speaker 2: no tattoos and still be part of it. You can

1159
01:01:59,120 --> 01:02:01,600
Speaker 2: also have a tattoo that matches other members of the organization.

1160
01:02:02,120 --> 01:02:05,400
Speaker 2: So like again, there's groups and different sort of because

1161
01:02:05,440 --> 01:02:08,760
Speaker 2: this is a very bottom up sort of organization, which

1162
01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:10,920
Speaker 2: is often the case with criminal groups, where like they

1163
01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:13,160
Speaker 2: will you know, there will be money being passed in

1164
01:02:13,160 --> 01:02:15,480
Speaker 2: one direction or another, but there's not tight control being

1165
01:02:15,520 --> 01:02:18,480
Speaker 2: exercised in a top down manner. You can find groups

1166
01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:21,360
Speaker 2: that have tattoos in common, but it's not a centralized

1167
01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:22,760
Speaker 2: thing that the organization does.

1168
01:02:23,400 --> 01:02:26,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, and like the Venezuelan state, to be clear, is

1169
01:02:26,080 --> 01:02:29,720
Speaker 4: extremely violent. They have like a special armed police which

1170
01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:33,160
Speaker 4: deals with gangs, an organized crime that kills hundreds of people.

1171
01:02:34,080 --> 01:02:36,840
Speaker 4: It would be unwise to be going about in the streets,

1172
01:02:36,880 --> 01:02:39,160
Speaker 4: whether like I am a member of a certain gang, right,

1173
01:02:39,720 --> 01:02:41,960
Speaker 4: tattoo right, And so unless you plan to live in

1174
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:44,680
Speaker 4: some area where where you feel completely safe from the state,

1175
01:02:45,120 --> 01:02:46,560
Speaker 4: that would be a very unwise thing to do.

1176
01:02:47,160 --> 01:02:49,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we'll talk some more about things that are unwise,

1177
01:02:50,040 --> 01:02:52,560
Speaker 2: but first it would be wise for you to buy

1178
01:02:52,600 --> 01:03:05,400
Speaker 2: these products. We're back, and I want to quote from

1179
01:03:05,440 --> 01:03:07,800
Speaker 2: a recent piece in The Guardian on the US law

1180
01:03:07,880 --> 01:03:12,840
Speaker 2: enforcement claiming that emoji's signal membership in this organization. And

1181
01:03:13,080 --> 01:03:15,840
Speaker 2: this is by Sam Levin and man Vy Singh from

1182
01:03:15,960 --> 01:03:18,880
Speaker 2: September a couple of days ago. The first reference to

1183
01:03:18,920 --> 01:03:21,360
Speaker 2: emojis in the records comes from a July twenty twenty

1184
01:03:21,360 --> 01:03:24,080
Speaker 2: four situational Awareness alert from the n WYPD, which was

1185
01:03:24,120 --> 01:03:27,120
Speaker 2: distributed to law enforcement across the country and warned of

1186
01:03:27,160 --> 01:03:30,520
Speaker 2: trendy araguav threats in New York City. N YPD Intelligence

1187
01:03:30,560 --> 01:03:33,840
Speaker 2: Encounter Terrorism Bureau has observed members of TDA in New

1188
01:03:33,920 --> 01:03:36,760
Speaker 2: York City using social media messaging platforms such as Instagram

1189
01:03:36,760 --> 01:03:38,480
Speaker 2: and TikTok to depict the allegiance to the gang. The

1190
01:03:38,520 --> 01:03:42,120
Speaker 2: alert said TDA members often utilize emojis such as trains, Ninja's,

1191
01:03:42,160 --> 01:03:45,840
Speaker 2: slot machines, double swords, shields, ogre, face mask, and crowns.

1192
01:03:46,080 --> 01:03:48,919
Speaker 2: Members also use South American slang in Arabic language terms

1193
01:03:48,920 --> 01:03:52,160
Speaker 2: to mask their identities on social media. They've cited the

1194
01:03:52,240 --> 01:03:56,240
Speaker 2: NYPD tattoos featuring Michael Jordan fucking Ninja emojis. You're told

1195
01:03:56,360 --> 01:03:58,960
Speaker 2: you that that's a TDA sybol. That's not just something

1196
01:03:59,000 --> 01:03:59,600
Speaker 2: people use.

1197
01:04:01,080 --> 01:04:03,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, man, this is like, I mean, there's a large

1198
01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:06,480
Speaker 4: Arab or population of Arab descent in Venezuela. That's where

1199
01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:10,120
Speaker 4: these slangs come from. Like, people use emojis particularly in

1200
01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:13,680
Speaker 4: this context because their education has not been the best right, Like,

1201
01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:17,600
Speaker 4: the access to literacy is less than it would be

1202
01:04:17,640 --> 01:04:20,440
Speaker 4: in other contexts. So like sometimes they use emoji, so

1203
01:04:20,600 --> 01:04:23,360
Speaker 4: they just use them because it's funny. But like the

1204
01:04:23,400 --> 01:04:25,720
Speaker 4: notion of like and yeah, people will use slang. People

1205
01:04:25,720 --> 01:04:28,680
Speaker 4: will spell shit the way they say it. Sometimes when

1206
01:04:28,720 --> 01:04:31,880
Speaker 4: I'm talking to Venezuelan people, you know, if I'm talking

1207
01:04:31,880 --> 01:04:34,400
Speaker 4: to a source and they as sometimes I have to

1208
01:04:34,440 --> 01:04:36,960
Speaker 4: really allowed to help me understand what they're saying. Yes,

1209
01:04:37,040 --> 01:04:39,960
Speaker 4: that is very common to people in Venezuela. There's nothing

1210
01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:41,920
Speaker 4: to do with being a member of a gang whatsoever.

1211
01:04:42,280 --> 01:04:45,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean there's a lot of that in

1212
01:04:45,120 --> 01:04:49,120
Speaker 2: terms of like the fact that the Chicago Bulls and

1213
01:04:49,320 --> 01:04:55,000
Speaker 2: Michael Jordan are popular among immigrants, right, Like that that's

1214
01:04:55,160 --> 01:04:57,920
Speaker 2: particularly Venezuelan immigrants, and a lot of it comes from, like, well,

1215
01:04:58,520 --> 01:05:01,400
Speaker 2: a lot of Venezuelan immigrants tend to like these things

1216
01:05:01,440 --> 01:05:04,640
Speaker 2: in media, tend to like these musicians and get tattoos

1217
01:05:04,680 --> 01:05:08,040
Speaker 2: that reference these things in popular culture or these things

1218
01:05:08,320 --> 01:05:11,400
Speaker 2: you know that that different Venezuelan artists have put out,

1219
01:05:11,440 --> 01:05:14,080
Speaker 2: and that's I mean, it's certainly not a sign that like,

1220
01:05:14,120 --> 01:05:17,680
Speaker 2: oh these things signal membership and this criminal organization and more.

1221
01:05:18,200 --> 01:05:20,880
Speaker 2: They're just targeting Venezuelans and these things are more common

1222
01:05:20,880 --> 01:05:23,720
Speaker 2: among Venezuelans, but not certainly not exclusive to that group.

1223
01:05:23,760 --> 01:05:25,960
Speaker 2: When you're when you're saying that like a Michael Jordan's

1224
01:05:25,960 --> 01:05:29,080
Speaker 2: shirt or tattoo is a symbol of membership in a criminal,

1225
01:05:29,160 --> 01:05:31,440
Speaker 2: criminal organization, well, I guess like a third of my

1226
01:05:31,520 --> 01:05:34,000
Speaker 2: high school were criminals. I mean they were, but not

1227
01:05:34,040 --> 01:05:36,360
Speaker 2: in this way.

1228
01:05:36,720 --> 01:05:40,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, like these are very common, like the Jordan logo,

1229
01:05:40,160 --> 01:05:43,120
Speaker 4: I don't know what it's called at the jumping Jordan logo.

1230
01:05:43,440 --> 01:05:47,080
Speaker 4: Not a big sports where fan myself, but like, yeah,

1231
01:05:47,120 --> 01:05:50,000
Speaker 4: it's very common. It's because people buy fake designer power

1232
01:05:50,080 --> 01:05:52,640
Speaker 4: all the time. Like you will also see people tons

1233
01:05:52,640 --> 01:05:56,360
Speaker 4: of people with Louis Veton items. They're not real. It

1234
01:05:56,360 --> 01:05:58,640
Speaker 4: does not indicate membership in any gang. It's just kind

1235
01:05:58,640 --> 01:06:02,960
Speaker 4: of aspirational thing that you can buy any almost anywhere

1236
01:06:02,960 --> 01:06:05,440
Speaker 4: in Venezuela because no one's going down there to enforce

1237
01:06:05,480 --> 01:06:09,920
Speaker 4: copyright laws. Like it's not it it doesn't indicate any affiliation.

1238
01:06:10,080 --> 01:06:14,200
Speaker 4: Sometimes it indicates like an interest with the United States, right,

1239
01:06:14,240 --> 01:06:16,080
Speaker 4: like like that these are where these things come from,

1240
01:06:16,080 --> 01:06:17,480
Speaker 4: and this is a place where these people would like

1241
01:06:17,560 --> 01:06:19,600
Speaker 4: to go. I also saw a guy cross a Darien

1242
01:06:19,640 --> 01:06:23,480
Speaker 4: Glap in Nike Alpha flys like the the super Fast

1243
01:06:23,520 --> 01:06:27,880
Speaker 4: Marathon running shoes with the giant carbon plated spring. Like

1244
01:06:28,600 --> 01:06:31,560
Speaker 4: this is not like indication of anything other than that,

1245
01:06:31,680 --> 01:06:35,840
Speaker 4: Like this person thought those were cool and they purchased them. Yeah,

1246
01:06:35,960 --> 01:06:38,280
Speaker 4: are you familiar with this Cartel de lo Solis thing?

1247
01:06:38,920 --> 01:06:39,000
Speaker 8: No?

1248
01:06:39,600 --> 01:06:43,440
Speaker 4: Okay, So like the Cartel del Solis, the Cartel of

1249
01:06:43,640 --> 01:06:48,440
Speaker 4: the Sun of the Sun's I guess it's another organization

1250
01:06:49,360 --> 01:06:52,680
Speaker 4: which the US is alleging that Maduro is is like

1251
01:06:52,880 --> 01:06:58,840
Speaker 4: head of right that, like it's a vertically organized organization

1252
01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:03,680
Speaker 4: and that like Madudo is literally the chief of it.

1253
01:07:04,080 --> 01:07:05,800
Speaker 4: And I guess I just want to say, like the

1254
01:07:05,840 --> 01:07:08,320
Speaker 4: same shit applies. Right. There are gangs all over Karrakas

1255
01:07:08,360 --> 01:07:11,400
Speaker 4: as well as names we haven't mentioned. What you've got

1256
01:07:11,440 --> 01:07:15,240
Speaker 4: here is state failure. Right Like in Venezuela, the state

1257
01:07:15,240 --> 01:07:17,640
Speaker 4: has failed to provide people with services, and it does

1258
01:07:17,760 --> 01:07:22,080
Speaker 4: not always enjoy a monopoly on the legitimate use of violence.

1259
01:07:22,600 --> 01:07:26,480
Speaker 4: You also have massive corruption. So it is absolutely the

1260
01:07:26,560 --> 01:07:31,240
Speaker 4: case that people smuggling drugs through Venezuela will be able

1261
01:07:31,280 --> 01:07:34,880
Speaker 4: to buy off certain officials, right, particularly like military commanders

1262
01:07:34,920 --> 01:07:38,600
Speaker 4: and people who have control over transit and border areas.

1263
01:07:39,400 --> 01:07:43,560
Speaker 4: It doesn't imply like a vertical structure per se. To

1264
01:07:43,600 --> 01:07:45,959
Speaker 4: be clear, I don't think Madada should be in charge

1265
01:07:45,960 --> 01:07:48,560
Speaker 4: of Venezuela. I think that Madoro regime is bad for

1266
01:07:48,640 --> 01:07:51,360
Speaker 4: Venezuela and bad for the world. But like it's very

1267
01:07:51,400 --> 01:07:54,200
Speaker 4: oversimplified to see it like straight up as like a

1268
01:07:54,320 --> 01:07:57,200
Speaker 4: narco regime, right that there is more to it than

1269
01:07:57,240 --> 01:07:59,400
Speaker 4: that this is the country that hits on masses of oil.

1270
01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:03,920
Speaker 4: This is a country that has been incredibly corrupt from

1271
01:08:03,960 --> 01:08:07,640
Speaker 4: an incredibly long time now, and you're always going to

1272
01:08:07,760 --> 01:08:13,440
Speaker 4: see these organizations creeping into the government, right when the

1273
01:08:13,480 --> 01:08:15,920
Speaker 4: government can't even pay its own people will guarantee them

1274
01:08:15,920 --> 01:08:21,840
Speaker 4: a decent and dignified quality of life, Like that doesn't

1275
01:08:21,880 --> 01:08:27,559
Speaker 4: mean that it is okay to just kill like first

1276
01:08:27,560 --> 01:08:30,880
Speaker 4: and foremost, I would imagine that if we go with

1277
01:08:30,920 --> 01:08:33,400
Speaker 4: the government story that the boats that they struck were

1278
01:08:33,400 --> 01:08:36,720
Speaker 4: carrying drugs, right, it is unlikely that people who are

1279
01:08:36,720 --> 01:08:39,599
Speaker 4: carrying those drugs or anything other than poor desperate young

1280
01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:41,960
Speaker 4: men who wanted a chance at a better life and

1281
01:08:42,240 --> 01:08:45,840
Speaker 4: or were intimidated into doing this, right, and maybe some

1282
01:08:45,920 --> 01:08:47,479
Speaker 4: of them chose to do this because they thought this

1283
01:08:47,600 --> 01:08:51,480
Speaker 4: was the way they could get money and the progress

1284
01:08:51,560 --> 01:08:53,760
Speaker 4: in a place that does not for the many opportunities.

1285
01:08:54,520 --> 01:08:57,519
Speaker 4: These are not the people who are in any way

1286
01:08:57,600 --> 01:09:01,240
Speaker 4: like making the calls, making the decision right, and so

1287
01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:04,840
Speaker 4: killing them isn't going to do very much because there

1288
01:09:04,920 --> 01:09:08,640
Speaker 4: is a massive supply of poor desperate young men in Venezuela,

1289
01:09:09,280 --> 01:09:14,360
Speaker 4: and it's not going to change anything to kill fourteen

1290
01:09:14,520 --> 01:09:17,439
Speaker 4: fifteen of them, other than it will obviously it's a

1291
01:09:17,479 --> 01:09:19,720
Speaker 4: tragedy for those families, right, there's people who lose their

1292
01:09:19,800 --> 01:09:22,640
Speaker 4: children or whatever. Yeah, and so like, I don't know

1293
01:09:22,720 --> 01:09:26,040
Speaker 4: until we solve the situation that life is untenable for

1294
01:09:26,080 --> 01:09:29,400
Speaker 4: people in Venezuela. Yes, there will be crime there, and yes,

1295
01:09:29,479 --> 01:09:31,719
Speaker 4: people from there will want to come to the United States.

1296
01:09:31,800 --> 01:09:34,679
Speaker 4: Both of those things make sense. That does not mean

1297
01:09:34,720 --> 01:09:36,880
Speaker 4: that people coming to the United States are coming to

1298
01:09:36,880 --> 01:09:40,200
Speaker 4: the United States to do bad things. The vast majority

1299
01:09:40,200 --> 01:09:42,320
Speaker 4: of them are coming to the United States to escape

1300
01:09:42,600 --> 01:09:46,280
Speaker 4: bad things. That we've had so much discourse about Venezuelan

1301
01:09:46,320 --> 01:09:49,240
Speaker 4: people and crime. Even in the you know, this has begun,

1302
01:09:49,880 --> 01:09:53,160
Speaker 4: I think in Chicago in the Biden administration, I have

1303
01:09:53,360 --> 01:09:58,640
Speaker 4: not seen journalists of whatever political stripe talk to Venezuelan

1304
01:09:58,680 --> 01:10:03,840
Speaker 4: people about this. Like, with very few exceptions, it's very

1305
01:10:03,840 --> 01:10:08,240
Speaker 4: easy to find Venezuelan people, especially you know, if you

1306
01:10:08,479 --> 01:10:10,920
Speaker 4: if you work at the border and you do border reporting.

1307
01:10:10,960 --> 01:10:13,120
Speaker 4: But even still, you know, lots of these Venezuelan people

1308
01:10:13,160 --> 01:10:15,920
Speaker 4: went to Denver, some of them went to Chicago, some

1309
01:10:15,960 --> 01:10:18,280
Speaker 4: of them went to the Springs in Colorado, many of

1310
01:10:18,320 --> 01:10:19,880
Speaker 4: them went to Texas. They went to all kinds of

1311
01:10:19,920 --> 01:10:21,920
Speaker 4: places when they came to the United States. Right, if

1312
01:10:21,920 --> 01:10:24,000
Speaker 4: you speak Spanish, it's not hard to find these people

1313
01:10:24,080 --> 01:10:27,400
Speaker 4: and ask them what's it like in Venezuela, why did

1314
01:10:27,439 --> 01:10:29,960
Speaker 4: you come here? And then perhaps you can you know,

1315
01:10:30,120 --> 01:10:33,840
Speaker 4: establish a picture of yeah, it's pretty shit. Right, people

1316
01:10:34,240 --> 01:10:36,639
Speaker 4: work hard every day and don't make enough to feed

1317
01:10:36,640 --> 01:10:40,280
Speaker 4: their family, if their kid is sick, if their elderly

1318
01:10:40,400 --> 01:10:43,880
Speaker 4: parents can't work and need support, it's really hard to

1319
01:10:43,960 --> 01:10:46,760
Speaker 4: do that. That is why they want to come to

1320
01:10:46,760 --> 01:10:49,360
Speaker 4: the US. That is why often young men want to

1321
01:10:49,360 --> 01:10:51,320
Speaker 4: come to the US right because the world as it

1322
01:10:51,360 --> 01:10:54,479
Speaker 4: is gives them the highest level of economic opportunity, and

1323
01:10:54,600 --> 01:10:57,479
Speaker 4: so the family will send them to the US such

1324
01:10:57,479 --> 01:10:59,200
Speaker 4: as they can earn enough money and they hope one

1325
01:10:59,280 --> 01:11:02,000
Speaker 4: day to bring their families here. Sometimes you also see

1326
01:11:02,000 --> 01:11:04,439
Speaker 4: people bringing their very young children because they realize there's

1327
01:11:04,439 --> 01:11:07,240
Speaker 4: no future for their children in Venezuela, so they make

1328
01:11:07,320 --> 01:11:09,960
Speaker 4: the choice to try and come to somewhere which once

1329
01:11:10,160 --> 01:11:15,640
Speaker 4: promised a future for hardworking people and doesn't really anymore.

1330
01:11:15,840 --> 01:11:18,400
Speaker 4: But like it just it pains me so much to

1331
01:11:18,439 --> 01:11:23,640
Speaker 4: see this discussion of Venezuela without Venezuelan people, most of

1332
01:11:23,640 --> 01:11:26,760
Speaker 4: whom I found to be wonderful, Like I spent a

1333
01:11:26,760 --> 01:11:28,840
Speaker 4: good amount of time in Venezuela and even longer with

1334
01:11:28,920 --> 01:11:31,360
Speaker 4: Venezuelan people, and I have a great affection for them,

1335
01:11:31,560 --> 01:11:36,000
Speaker 4: like they've been nothing but kind to me. Even now,

1336
01:11:36,200 --> 01:11:39,160
Speaker 4: like a year after I was in the Darien Gap,

1337
01:11:39,479 --> 01:11:42,200
Speaker 4: I get text all the time from Venezuelan people, the

1338
01:11:42,200 --> 01:11:45,479
Speaker 4: majority of them not asking for help, just asking how

1339
01:11:45,520 --> 01:11:47,479
Speaker 4: I am asking? Do I know what happened to the

1340
01:11:47,479 --> 01:11:52,439
Speaker 4: Bolivian girl? Do I know what happened to Zimbabwean women?

1341
01:11:52,920 --> 01:11:56,639
Speaker 4: Like genuinely concerned even admits like a really shit situation

1342
01:11:56,760 --> 01:11:58,799
Speaker 4: for them, concerned for the well being of other people.

1343
01:11:58,840 --> 01:12:02,759
Speaker 4: And I just wish instead of talking about yeah, there

1344
01:12:02,520 --> 01:12:07,560
Speaker 4: are hundreds, maybe thousands of Venezuelan people who are involved

1345
01:12:08,439 --> 01:12:10,439
Speaker 4: in moving drugs United States, we could talk about the

1346
01:12:10,439 --> 01:12:12,400
Speaker 4: millions of people who just want to work hard and

1347
01:12:12,439 --> 01:12:14,439
Speaker 4: have a decent life and who are being denied a

1348
01:12:14,520 --> 01:12:16,920
Speaker 4: chance to do that home, and are now being denied

1349
01:12:16,920 --> 01:12:18,240
Speaker 4: a chance to do that here as well.

1350
01:12:19,040 --> 01:12:23,240
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I think that's about it for our episode today.

1351
01:12:23,720 --> 01:12:25,240
Speaker 2: Until next time, folks, I don't know.

1352
01:12:27,120 --> 01:12:28,120
Speaker 4: Best of luck out there.

1353
01:12:28,840 --> 01:12:46,880
Speaker 9: Yeah.

1354
01:12:47,000 --> 01:12:49,719
Speaker 10: Welcome to akap here, a podcast where your host wakes

1355
01:12:49,800 --> 01:12:51,960
Speaker 10: up every morning and rolls a d six to determine

1356
01:12:51,960 --> 01:12:54,519
Speaker 10: whether the government wants to exterminate her for being trans

1357
01:12:54,640 --> 01:12:57,400
Speaker 10: artistic or Chinese. This week, I am your host to

1358
01:12:57,439 --> 01:13:00,200
Speaker 10: be a Wong. We have rolled the dice. This week

1359
01:13:00,280 --> 01:13:03,280
Speaker 10: is autism Week, and by autism week, I mean anti

1360
01:13:03,320 --> 01:13:07,599
Speaker 10: autism week. The Trump administration or specifically orifica junior promise

1361
01:13:07,640 --> 01:13:10,400
Speaker 10: at the beginning is like April roughly that they were

1362
01:13:10,400 --> 01:13:13,240
Speaker 10: going to find the cause of autism by the end

1363
01:13:13,280 --> 01:13:18,080
Speaker 10: of the summer, and they are claiming that the cause

1364
01:13:18,120 --> 01:13:24,639
Speaker 10: of autism is taking tyle and all when you're pregnant,

1365
01:13:25,800 --> 01:13:30,240
Speaker 10: and that's not true. And to talk about how unbelievably

1366
01:13:30,360 --> 01:13:33,839
Speaker 10: vile and unhinged this is. Is Crystal, who's a unionized

1367
01:13:33,880 --> 01:13:36,400
Speaker 10: abortion care worker who is also Clozilla on Blue Sky

1368
01:13:36,600 --> 01:13:40,559
Speaker 10: and a friend of the show, Done many things. Welcome

1369
01:13:40,600 --> 01:13:41,080
Speaker 10: to the show.

1370
01:13:41,479 --> 01:13:42,559
Speaker 11: Yeah, thank you so much, Mea.

1371
01:13:42,600 --> 01:13:45,680
Speaker 12: It's always so wonderful to come and talk about horrifying

1372
01:13:45,720 --> 01:13:48,479
Speaker 12: things with you and be filled with existential dread together.

1373
01:13:49,760 --> 01:13:50,360
Speaker 6: It's so good.

1374
01:13:50,439 --> 01:13:52,479
Speaker 10: And by good, I mean the worst thing I've ever seen.

1375
01:13:54,439 --> 01:13:55,960
Speaker 12: I'm like, this is such a great time to be

1376
01:13:56,000 --> 01:13:58,960
Speaker 12: a trans, non binary abortion care worker. I just love

1377
01:13:59,400 --> 01:14:02,519
Speaker 12: I love like being hated in so many different ways.

1378
01:14:02,680 --> 01:14:05,960
Speaker 12: You just like a rich tapestry of hatred towards you.

1379
01:14:06,320 --> 01:14:07,719
Speaker 12: It's really great, so good.

1380
01:14:09,120 --> 01:14:11,720
Speaker 10: So okay. That's actually kind of where I want to

1381
01:14:11,760 --> 01:14:14,879
Speaker 10: start about this is that most of the media coverage

1382
01:14:15,320 --> 01:14:19,320
Speaker 10: of this has been purely focusing on the tail and

1383
01:14:19,400 --> 01:14:22,400
Speaker 10: all causing autism, well especifically that causing autism. And I

1384
01:14:22,439 --> 01:14:24,240
Speaker 10: want to point out because most of the news articles

1385
01:14:24,280 --> 01:14:26,559
Speaker 10: that cover this simply do not mention this. They are

1386
01:14:26,600 --> 01:14:29,639
Speaker 10: also claiming that taking tail and all if your pregnant

1387
01:14:29,680 --> 01:14:32,479
Speaker 10: causes ADHD, a thing which you think would be noteworthy

1388
01:14:32,560 --> 01:14:35,400
Speaker 10: to point out, but has just not. Yeah, I don't know.

1389
01:14:35,439 --> 01:14:38,120
Speaker 10: I don't know why people aren't reading the transcript. I

1390
01:14:38,120 --> 01:14:39,600
Speaker 10: don't know why, but they're not.

1391
01:14:40,080 --> 01:14:41,519
Speaker 11: Yeah, I actually hadn't seen that part.

1392
01:14:41,640 --> 01:14:44,479
Speaker 12: Like I was literally just reading and observing like just

1393
01:14:44,560 --> 01:14:48,200
Speaker 12: the pregnancy and what that means for you know, pregnant people,

1394
01:14:48,720 --> 01:14:51,759
Speaker 12: and I like didn't see any of the ADHD stuff,

1395
01:14:51,920 --> 01:14:53,720
Speaker 12: So that was new when you brought that up to me.

1396
01:14:53,840 --> 01:14:56,879
Speaker 10: Yeah, it's it's just not being reported on. It's really baffling.

1397
01:14:57,000 --> 01:14:59,040
Speaker 10: So I want to before we sort of busy get

1398
01:14:59,040 --> 01:15:01,840
Speaker 10: into the wait, hold on, why the fuck are they

1399
01:15:01,880 --> 01:15:06,040
Speaker 10: doing this? What is happening here? Because and as Chris

1400
01:15:06,080 --> 01:15:08,639
Speaker 10: Oligo had to say, actually toile it all is safe

1401
01:15:08,760 --> 01:15:13,679
Speaker 10: for people who are pregnant, it's fine. But I want

1402
01:15:13,680 --> 01:15:16,680
Speaker 10: to go over a bit of like what's actually in

1403
01:15:16,720 --> 01:15:19,640
Speaker 10: this because it's a really really weird. We're gonna be

1404
01:15:19,640 --> 01:15:22,200
Speaker 10: getting more into the sort of like into the autism

1405
01:15:22,280 --> 01:15:25,680
Speaker 10: angle in another episode next week, but I want to

1406
01:15:25,720 --> 01:15:28,240
Speaker 10: talk a little bit about just like the actual stuff

1407
01:15:28,240 --> 01:15:31,640
Speaker 10: that was in this announcement where Trump is saying that

1408
01:15:31,680 --> 01:15:33,560
Speaker 10: a you shouldn't give talle all to pregnant people and

1409
01:15:33,560 --> 01:15:35,759
Speaker 10: also saying like you shouldn't give it to like young children,

1410
01:15:37,120 --> 01:15:39,840
Speaker 10: and is like, you know, it's like ranting about like

1411
01:15:40,040 --> 01:15:43,160
Speaker 10: mercury and aluminum in vaccines, which like, this shit isn't real,

1412
01:15:43,479 --> 01:15:46,840
Speaker 10: Like there hasn't even been anything like even remotely related

1413
01:15:46,880 --> 01:15:49,479
Speaker 10: to mercury vaccines for ages. It also never did anything,

1414
01:15:50,200 --> 01:15:53,200
Speaker 10: but this is all weird andiw Wakefield special shit. He

1415
01:15:53,240 --> 01:15:55,000
Speaker 10: also has this thing where he's talking about like how

1416
01:15:55,040 --> 01:15:58,320
Speaker 10: you should separate the MMR vaccines, which is a thing

1417
01:15:58,400 --> 01:16:00,280
Speaker 10: that if you have seen the h bomber Guy video

1418
01:16:00,360 --> 01:16:02,439
Speaker 10: you will know. The reason that that was an anti

1419
01:16:02,520 --> 01:16:05,720
Speaker 10: vax talking point was because Wakefield was selling separate vaccines,

1420
01:16:06,479 --> 01:16:08,400
Speaker 10: and so he was trying to convince parents that having

1421
01:16:08,400 --> 01:16:09,920
Speaker 10: all three of the vaccines that once to give their

1422
01:16:10,000 --> 01:16:12,040
Speaker 10: kids autism, but if you did it separately, it wouldn't

1423
01:16:12,920 --> 01:16:16,040
Speaker 10: through scientific things that don't make any sense, even according

1424
01:16:16,120 --> 01:16:20,160
Speaker 10: to his own incredibly made up bullshit. Wakefield, by the way,

1425
01:16:20,200 --> 01:16:23,000
Speaker 10: is the guy who sort of kicked off the modern

1426
01:16:23,080 --> 01:16:27,719
Speaker 10: anti vaccine movements by abusing a bunch of children and

1427
01:16:28,040 --> 01:16:31,200
Speaker 10: publishing an incredibly fake study and then getting it retracted,

1428
01:16:31,240 --> 01:16:34,120
Speaker 10: and then getting is midical license retracted because it was

1429
01:16:34,280 --> 01:16:37,439
Speaker 10: incredibly fake and abused children. So Trump is sort of

1430
01:16:37,520 --> 01:16:40,160
Speaker 10: just repeating the stuff that he's like vaguely remembers. There's

1431
01:16:40,160 --> 01:16:42,320
Speaker 10: there's a whole bunch of this sort of like stuffy

1432
01:16:42,360 --> 01:16:45,080
Speaker 10: vaguely remembers, like he's he's he goes on a random

1433
01:16:45,160 --> 01:16:48,519
Speaker 10: rant about like how Cuba doesn't have taile at all,

1434
01:16:48,600 --> 01:16:51,920
Speaker 10: so they don't have autism, and that homage people and

1435
01:16:51,960 --> 01:16:53,760
Speaker 10: this is the one that goes around loss like, oh,

1436
01:16:53,760 --> 01:16:55,519
Speaker 10: seople don't have autism because they don't take drugs, and

1437
01:16:55,520 --> 01:16:58,800
Speaker 10: it's like, oh my god. I also just I want

1438
01:16:58,840 --> 01:17:02,960
Speaker 10: to read a quote from RFK Junior about this, which,

1439
01:17:03,640 --> 01:17:06,160
Speaker 10: again and I want to point this out, the actual

1440
01:17:06,320 --> 01:17:09,479
Speaker 10: point of this thing is announcing that the FDA is

1441
01:17:09,520 --> 01:17:11,920
Speaker 10: not going to recommend that you take a set of

1442
01:17:11,960 --> 01:17:14,640
Speaker 10: metaphine or tiland all if you're pregnant. I'm just going

1443
01:17:14,720 --> 01:17:17,439
Speaker 10: to read this and I'm gonna ask if you can

1444
01:17:17,479 --> 01:17:19,840
Speaker 10: figure out what the link between this and tail and

1445
01:17:19,920 --> 01:17:24,360
Speaker 10: all is. This is from RFK Junior quote. President Trump

1446
01:17:24,360 --> 01:17:26,519
Speaker 10: believes that we should be listening to these mothers instead

1447
01:17:26,520 --> 01:17:30,960
Speaker 10: of gas lighting and marginalizing them, marginalizing them like prior administrations,

1448
01:17:31,520 --> 01:17:34,080
Speaker 10: some of our friends like to say we should believe

1449
01:17:34,200 --> 01:17:37,360
Speaker 10: all women. Some of these same people have been silencing

1450
01:17:37,360 --> 01:17:40,200
Speaker 10: and demonizing these mothers for three decades because research on

1451
01:17:40,240 --> 01:17:43,320
Speaker 10: the potential link between autism and vaccines has been suppressed

1452
01:17:43,360 --> 01:17:43,920
Speaker 10: in the past.

1453
01:17:45,000 --> 01:17:46,840
Speaker 12: So is this basically talking about kind of like the

1454
01:17:46,840 --> 01:17:52,120
Speaker 12: celebrity anti vax people and like the grifters.

1455
01:17:51,200 --> 01:17:55,479
Speaker 10: And yeah, yeah, it's like I can't believe that. Oh,

1456
01:17:55,520 --> 01:17:57,360
Speaker 10: I mean I can believe but like a the fact

1457
01:17:57,400 --> 01:18:02,000
Speaker 10: that RFK Junior noted repeat did Lee accused of sexual

1458
01:18:02,080 --> 01:18:04,759
Speaker 10: assault and whose response, when asked to about it was quote,

1459
01:18:04,760 --> 01:18:06,960
Speaker 10: I have a lot of skeletons in my closet. Is

1460
01:18:07,000 --> 01:18:12,679
Speaker 10: doing believe all women? But about vaccines causing autism?

1461
01:18:13,000 --> 01:18:14,920
Speaker 12: Yeah, I mean it's only just like a talking point

1462
01:18:15,640 --> 01:18:17,800
Speaker 12: that they can use in their favor, he is, it's

1463
01:18:17,800 --> 01:18:20,360
Speaker 12: never actually about you know it?

1464
01:18:21,640 --> 01:18:22,000
Speaker 5: Yeah?

1465
01:18:22,080 --> 01:18:25,000
Speaker 10: Oh god? And like that, like this is just like

1466
01:18:25,120 --> 01:18:28,840
Speaker 10: the average thing in this speech that isn't barely even

1467
01:18:28,840 --> 01:18:29,759
Speaker 10: getting neuse coverage.

1468
01:18:30,280 --> 01:18:32,559
Speaker 11: I mean there's also what Trump said as well, which

1469
01:18:32,720 --> 01:18:33,320
Speaker 11: oh yeah.

1470
01:18:33,200 --> 01:18:34,840
Speaker 12: Because I've seen a lot of that too, And it's

1471
01:18:34,880 --> 01:18:37,760
Speaker 12: like between what Trump said, and what RFK Junior said,

1472
01:18:37,800 --> 01:18:39,360
Speaker 12: it's like what where do you even like, where does

1473
01:18:39,360 --> 01:18:42,240
Speaker 12: the media focus? Like, how do you explain this to

1474
01:18:42,280 --> 01:18:43,360
Speaker 12: the American audience?

1475
01:18:44,000 --> 01:18:46,840
Speaker 10: Yeah, it's it's ridiculous. And then they also brought in

1476
01:18:46,960 --> 01:18:51,120
Speaker 10: Marty mcerray, who's the Commissioner of the FDA, who has

1477
01:18:51,160 --> 01:18:54,439
Speaker 10: the giant rants about how, like I learned in medical school,

1478
01:18:55,240 --> 01:18:58,160
Speaker 10: just treat fevers, low grade fevers with the seed of metaphine.

1479
01:18:58,280 --> 01:18:59,920
Speaker 10: Why what are we doing a study out of hop

1480
01:19:00,040 --> 01:19:02,439
Speaker 10: it's actually showed treating a fever can prolong the duration

1481
01:19:02,479 --> 01:19:05,559
Speaker 10: of illness in a young child. Maybe that's because fever

1482
01:19:05,720 --> 01:19:07,879
Speaker 10: is a body's natural way of ridding an infection.

1483
01:19:08,640 --> 01:19:11,320
Speaker 11: Yeah, well that's absolutely not true.

1484
01:19:11,520 --> 01:19:14,519
Speaker 12: I mean there's like we know that like fevers are

1485
01:19:14,600 --> 01:19:18,160
Speaker 12: dangerous for young children and pregnant people.

1486
01:19:18,360 --> 01:19:21,479
Speaker 11: It's yeah, I don't, I don't know. It's just it's

1487
01:19:21,520 --> 01:19:23,320
Speaker 11: just total made up bullshit.

1488
01:19:23,360 --> 01:19:26,600
Speaker 10: Like it's just eugenics, right, Like they're they're like, oh, no,

1489
01:19:26,680 --> 01:19:29,880
Speaker 10: you shouldn't actually do anything to treat the illnesses because

1490
01:19:29,880 --> 01:19:32,439
Speaker 10: if the child is strong, then like they'll go through

1491
01:19:32,439 --> 01:19:34,800
Speaker 10: it naturally and they'll become stronger. And it's like, no,

1492
01:19:35,120 --> 01:19:36,160
Speaker 10: that's eugenics.

1493
01:19:36,680 --> 01:19:38,960
Speaker 12: Yeah, this goes for the pregnancy of it all too,

1494
01:19:39,080 --> 01:19:43,080
Speaker 12: because it's about being able to suffer and enduring. And

1495
01:19:43,320 --> 01:19:45,600
Speaker 12: it's it's the same case, the same kind of like

1496
01:19:45,640 --> 01:19:49,559
Speaker 12: puritanical survival of the fittest eugenics shit, whether you're talking

1497
01:19:49,560 --> 01:19:53,360
Speaker 12: about pregnancy or you're talking about like literally young.

1498
01:19:53,240 --> 01:19:57,040
Speaker 11: Children who have fevers, same same like approach.

1499
01:19:57,800 --> 01:20:02,120
Speaker 10: Yeah. This also links directly back to what they're trying

1500
01:20:02,160 --> 01:20:04,280
Speaker 10: to do here, right, because the thing that they're trying

1501
01:20:04,360 --> 01:20:07,679
Speaker 10: to do is get rid of autistic people.

1502
01:20:08,120 --> 01:20:09,639
Speaker 6: Yeah, Like they.

1503
01:20:09,479 --> 01:20:13,839
Speaker 10: Don't want there to be children born with autism. Yeah,

1504
01:20:14,320 --> 01:20:17,479
Speaker 10: And in order to do this, they are willing to

1505
01:20:17,520 --> 01:20:20,880
Speaker 10: not take vaccines. They are willing to well, I mean,

1506
01:20:20,920 --> 01:20:22,960
Speaker 10: I guess I guess, I guess I should say not

1507
01:20:23,040 --> 01:20:26,639
Speaker 10: letting pregnant people take tail and all is really truly

1508
01:20:26,760 --> 01:20:31,120
Speaker 10: the most some of you must die. But that's sacrifice

1509
01:20:31,160 --> 01:20:33,720
Speaker 10: I'm willing to make. Thing that I've ever seen. But

1510
01:20:35,160 --> 01:20:38,320
Speaker 10: it's you know, it's absolutely hideous. There's like, yeah, these

1511
01:20:38,320 --> 01:20:41,320
Speaker 10: people they don't want autistic kids to be born, you know.

1512
01:20:41,360 --> 01:20:44,760
Speaker 10: And that's also just straight up part of the eugenics

1513
01:20:44,760 --> 01:20:48,200
Speaker 10: thing that the project that they're doing, right, there's on

1514
01:20:48,240 --> 01:20:50,519
Speaker 10: the one hand, the sort of pure survival of the fittest,

1515
01:20:50,920 --> 01:20:54,240
Speaker 10: fuck them kids, let them just die of fevers, and

1516
01:20:54,280 --> 01:20:56,840
Speaker 10: then on the other hand there's the just active like, oh,

1517
01:20:56,880 --> 01:20:59,639
Speaker 10: we're just gonna do all this stuff that we think

1518
01:20:59,680 --> 01:21:02,639
Speaker 10: will just make auld there not be autistic kids.

1519
01:21:03,640 --> 01:21:06,160
Speaker 12: Yeah, and they definitely care more about their being less

1520
01:21:06,200 --> 01:21:09,160
Speaker 12: autistic children than there are about actually, like you know,

1521
01:21:09,200 --> 01:21:13,639
Speaker 12: addressing infant mortality. Yeah, and it's definitely it's treating autism

1522
01:21:13,840 --> 01:21:16,320
Speaker 12: as in something that can be prevented by the choice

1523
01:21:16,360 --> 01:21:19,559
Speaker 12: of the parents, as opposed to it just being something

1524
01:21:19,680 --> 01:21:23,720
Speaker 12: that some people are born that way. Also, you know,

1525
01:21:23,760 --> 01:21:25,920
Speaker 12: same with being queer and trans and all these things.

1526
01:21:26,080 --> 01:21:27,960
Speaker 12: It's this idea that you can like choose it, that

1527
01:21:28,000 --> 01:21:30,120
Speaker 12: you can, like, if the parents are strong enough and

1528
01:21:30,160 --> 01:21:32,479
Speaker 12: they can endure enough pain and they can suffer enough,

1529
01:21:32,600 --> 01:21:36,639
Speaker 12: and if they you know, make the right choices, then

1530
01:21:36,760 --> 01:21:40,479
Speaker 12: they can avoid having a child with autism. And it's

1531
01:21:40,520 --> 01:21:42,840
Speaker 12: not really that dissimilar than like, oh, what to do

1532
01:21:42,920 --> 01:21:46,280
Speaker 12: if you like have a queer child, a trans child.

1533
01:21:46,680 --> 01:21:48,760
Speaker 12: It's this idea that like that is something that can

1534
01:21:48,760 --> 01:21:51,360
Speaker 12: be controlled and eliminated, which is eugenics, which is you know,

1535
01:21:51,400 --> 01:21:52,519
Speaker 12: as you've been saying, so.

1536
01:21:52,560 --> 01:21:55,440
Speaker 10: Definitely, Uh, do you know what isn't eugenics?

1537
01:21:56,720 --> 01:21:59,920
Speaker 12: The products and services? I would really hope, so fucking hope.

1538
01:22:00,320 --> 01:22:03,400
Speaker 10: I really I don't know. I cannot. I don't know

1539
01:22:03,400 --> 01:22:06,160
Speaker 10: what these ads are going to be if they are eugenics,

1540
01:22:06,320 --> 01:22:10,360
Speaker 10: let us know at I right, okay on Twitter in

1541
01:22:10,479 --> 01:22:12,759
Speaker 10: blue Sky. Actually I don't know if you still on Twitter,

1542
01:22:12,760 --> 01:22:14,840
Speaker 10: I have no idea, but on their in ages? Who

1543
01:22:15,400 --> 01:22:31,760
Speaker 10: these ads? We are back? So let's talk about specifically

1544
01:22:32,400 --> 01:22:36,439
Speaker 10: the don't use Thailand all of it all. Can you

1545
01:22:36,479 --> 01:22:38,559
Speaker 10: talk a bit about just like the importance of tailan

1546
01:22:38,600 --> 01:22:40,400
Speaker 10: al and pain management for pregnant people.

1547
01:22:40,920 --> 01:22:43,479
Speaker 12: Yeah, And I bet like there's definitely probably people out

1548
01:22:43,479 --> 01:22:45,200
Speaker 12: there who are like, why tiland All, Why did they

1549
01:22:45,280 --> 01:22:45,640
Speaker 12: choose this?

1550
01:22:45,720 --> 01:22:45,760
Speaker 1: Like?

1551
01:22:45,760 --> 01:22:47,680
Speaker 11: Where did this come from? Is it because Trump can't

1552
01:22:47,720 --> 01:22:48,560
Speaker 11: say a sentimentophen?

1553
01:22:48,760 --> 01:22:51,040
Speaker 12: You know a lot of people have been, you know, speculating,

1554
01:22:51,600 --> 01:22:54,440
Speaker 12: And first off, I do want to say that autism

1555
01:22:54,600 --> 01:23:00,000
Speaker 12: predates tilan all, Like, oh, like Thailand all like came

1556
01:23:00,080 --> 01:23:02,320
Speaker 12: to be in like the nineteen fifties, and you know,

1557
01:23:02,520 --> 01:23:06,080
Speaker 12: autism existed before that and has probably already always been

1558
01:23:06,120 --> 01:23:08,720
Speaker 12: around to some degree, which we don't know, I don't know.

1559
01:23:08,760 --> 01:23:11,800
Speaker 12: It's it's a very complex and we're still you know,

1560
01:23:12,240 --> 01:23:14,280
Speaker 12: there's been so much stigma around it for so long

1561
01:23:14,320 --> 01:23:18,400
Speaker 12: that it's difficult to talk about. But thilanol is basically

1562
01:23:18,400 --> 01:23:22,360
Speaker 12: one of the only pain medications that pregnant people can take,

1563
01:23:22,800 --> 01:23:25,000
Speaker 12: and that's why it's tail and all. I think that

1564
01:23:25,000 --> 01:23:27,040
Speaker 12: that is the way of looking at this, where it's like,

1565
01:23:27,080 --> 01:23:29,160
Speaker 12: why did they single out this medication, and it's because

1566
01:23:29,160 --> 01:23:31,960
Speaker 12: it's the only pain medication that a pregnant person can take,

1567
01:23:32,040 --> 01:23:35,360
Speaker 12: because as we know, there's other pain medications like the

1568
01:23:35,479 --> 01:23:38,240
Speaker 12: N SAIDs, like hyboprofen and aproxen, and then of course

1569
01:23:38,240 --> 01:23:42,160
Speaker 12: there's opioids, which is obviously not good during pregnancy. They

1570
01:23:42,160 --> 01:23:44,679
Speaker 12: of course, talk to your doctor, because I'm not a doctor,

1571
01:23:44,680 --> 01:23:46,960
Speaker 12: and you should always get this from doctors. Talk to

1572
01:23:47,000 --> 01:23:50,960
Speaker 12: your obgian. But N SAIDs are typically not recommended in

1573
01:23:50,960 --> 01:23:53,559
Speaker 12: the last three months of pregnancy because they can cause

1574
01:23:53,840 --> 01:23:58,200
Speaker 12: issues with amniotic fluid and baby's kidneys and things like that.

1575
01:23:58,560 --> 01:24:02,080
Speaker 12: So it is typically recomoned that you avoid byboprofen and

1576
01:24:02,120 --> 01:24:04,920
Speaker 12: other things like that, and you take tile and all

1577
01:24:05,320 --> 01:24:09,200
Speaker 12: to reduce fevers, to reduce pain. Obviously, there is a

1578
01:24:09,240 --> 01:24:13,080
Speaker 12: lot to be sick with when you're pregnant. There's a

1579
01:24:13,120 --> 01:24:16,200
Speaker 12: lot of source of pain. You know, Fever and headaches

1580
01:24:16,240 --> 01:24:21,840
Speaker 12: are definitely something that pregnant people experience. But pretty much

1581
01:24:21,960 --> 01:24:25,719
Speaker 12: like because it is the only pain medication that pregnant

1582
01:24:25,720 --> 01:24:27,800
Speaker 12: people can take, then it's really easy to be like, oh, well,

1583
01:24:27,840 --> 01:24:29,960
Speaker 12: what are they taking? This is what they're taking, and

1584
01:24:30,000 --> 01:24:33,160
Speaker 12: then you can go from there. And this is very

1585
01:24:33,280 --> 01:24:37,599
Speaker 12: much coming from It feels so weird saying this coming

1586
01:24:37,600 --> 01:24:42,120
Speaker 12: from like a biblical sense of like Eve eat the apple.

1587
01:24:42,640 --> 01:24:45,760
Speaker 12: Eve is the original sinner. I think, I don't know, like,

1588
01:24:45,960 --> 01:24:48,479
Speaker 12: you know, Eve did the bad thing. So Eve needs

1589
01:24:48,520 --> 01:24:51,920
Speaker 12: to suffer during pregnancy. All women need to suffer during pregnancy.

1590
01:24:52,439 --> 01:24:56,400
Speaker 12: That's very much like a very biblical take on this.

1591
01:24:56,800 --> 01:24:58,840
Speaker 12: And I think that is kind of why why tile

1592
01:24:58,840 --> 01:25:01,920
Speaker 12: and all, because it's what pregnant people are taking to

1593
01:25:02,000 --> 01:25:03,920
Speaker 12: reduce pain and to address fevers.

1594
01:25:04,320 --> 01:25:07,400
Speaker 10: Yeah, and I want to read a quote from the

1595
01:25:07,439 --> 01:25:09,800
Speaker 10: Commissioner of the FDA that he gave while he was

1596
01:25:09,840 --> 01:25:13,880
Speaker 10: speaking about this, where he says, quote, when my wife

1597
01:25:13,920 --> 01:25:15,920
Speaker 10: was pregnant and delivered our son a few months ago,

1598
01:25:16,040 --> 01:25:17,840
Speaker 10: they pushed her to take a seat of metaphine for

1599
01:25:17,880 --> 01:25:21,000
Speaker 10: a low grade fever. She said no, and then they

1600
01:25:21,040 --> 01:25:24,240
Speaker 10: looked at me and I said absolutely no. I'm also

1601
01:25:24,280 --> 01:25:27,200
Speaker 10: here to announce good news today, the FDA is filing

1602
01:25:27,200 --> 01:25:29,800
Speaker 10: a federal registered notice to change the label on an

1603
01:25:29,800 --> 01:25:32,360
Speaker 10: exciting treatment called prescription look over and so it can

1604
01:25:32,360 --> 01:25:35,680
Speaker 10: be available to children with autism. So you could see

1605
01:25:35,760 --> 01:25:38,479
Speaker 10: like how casually he is doing just doing this like no, no, no, no, no, yeah,

1606
01:25:38,479 --> 01:25:41,479
Speaker 10: Like I'm really proud of my wife for saying no

1607
01:25:42,000 --> 01:25:46,800
Speaker 10: to taking tyle lanol for a fever, and like they

1608
01:25:46,840 --> 01:25:49,000
Speaker 10: also look look at this and it's like the like, oh,

1609
01:25:49,040 --> 01:25:50,960
Speaker 10: they pushed her to take a seat of metaphine for

1610
01:25:50,960 --> 01:25:55,080
Speaker 10: a low grade fever. It's like that's an extremely normal

1611
01:25:55,320 --> 01:25:59,719
Speaker 10: thing for a doctor to say to you, Like, take

1612
01:25:59,800 --> 01:26:03,559
Speaker 10: time ellenol for your fever is like the least like

1613
01:26:03,720 --> 01:26:07,360
Speaker 10: medically invasive thing a doctor can possibly recommend. Like what

1614
01:26:07,400 --> 01:26:08,240
Speaker 10: are we doing here?

1615
01:26:08,600 --> 01:26:11,519
Speaker 12: Yeah, it's really basic medicine. And also like there's like

1616
01:26:11,600 --> 01:26:13,360
Speaker 12: there's a ways to profit off of this too, because

1617
01:26:13,360 --> 01:26:16,360
Speaker 12: if you can't take any pain medication when you're pregnant,

1618
01:26:16,800 --> 01:26:18,880
Speaker 12: but you can take I think they were recommending something

1619
01:26:18,960 --> 01:26:21,000
Speaker 12: like I don't even know it was like something fullic

1620
01:26:21,080 --> 01:26:24,439
Speaker 12: acid thingy. They were recommending that you take something which

1621
01:26:24,479 --> 01:26:27,759
Speaker 12: obviously now can be like profit off of and sold.

1622
01:26:28,360 --> 01:26:32,919
Speaker 12: This is a very capitalist, very grifter approach to medicine

1623
01:26:32,920 --> 01:26:35,120
Speaker 12: and healthcare because obviously, always talk to your doctor and

1624
01:26:35,120 --> 01:26:38,880
Speaker 12: your obgian about taking any medication when you're pregnant, Like,

1625
01:26:39,360 --> 01:26:40,080
Speaker 12: talk to your doctor.

1626
01:26:40,080 --> 01:26:41,639
Speaker 11: They're going to be the best source of information.

1627
01:26:42,520 --> 01:26:46,160
Speaker 10: So the fullic acid thing is a licoverin, which is

1628
01:26:46,920 --> 01:26:51,839
Speaker 10: a medicine for anemia and counteracting the effects of chemotherapy meds.

1629
01:26:52,720 --> 01:26:54,240
Speaker 11: Yeah, I wouldn't.

1630
01:26:54,320 --> 01:26:56,200
Speaker 10: And then there's specifically like, oh, this will stop your

1631
01:26:56,240 --> 01:27:00,639
Speaker 10: children from having autism. Okay, no it won't.

1632
01:27:00,840 --> 01:27:03,280
Speaker 11: No, no, no no.

1633
01:27:03,360 --> 01:27:07,400
Speaker 12: I mean like there are there are respected organizations speaking

1634
01:27:07,479 --> 01:27:10,120
Speaker 12: up right now kind of like about like the facts,

1635
01:27:10,160 --> 01:27:13,160
Speaker 12: about the studies, about what's real. So there's like Physicians

1636
01:27:13,160 --> 01:27:16,080
Speaker 12: for Reproductive Health, you know, saying like there's decades of

1637
01:27:16,120 --> 01:27:18,960
Speaker 12: study of studies of Thailand all being safe to take

1638
01:27:19,040 --> 01:27:22,280
Speaker 12: during pregnancy. There's a COG, which is a big professional

1639
01:27:22,280 --> 01:27:27,040
Speaker 12: membership organization of like tens of thousands of obgyns saying like, hey,

1640
01:27:27,160 --> 01:27:31,240
Speaker 12: Thailand all is safe during pregnancy. So there's been decades

1641
01:27:31,280 --> 01:27:35,120
Speaker 12: of studies on thailan al use and pregnancy. Some of

1642
01:27:35,120 --> 01:27:37,360
Speaker 12: the studies published in the Journal of the American Medical

1643
01:27:37,400 --> 01:27:41,760
Speaker 12: Association that says how safe it is, So like it

1644
01:27:41,800 --> 01:27:44,000
Speaker 12: is it is, it is safe. It is absolutely one

1645
01:27:44,040 --> 01:27:47,679
Speaker 12: hundred percent safe to take to treat pain and fever

1646
01:27:48,360 --> 01:27:50,519
Speaker 12: during pregnancy. So, like, you know, in terms of like

1647
01:27:50,560 --> 01:27:52,360
Speaker 12: who can you look to, Like, definitely look at the

1648
01:27:52,360 --> 01:27:54,880
Speaker 12: obgyns right now and what they're saying and the physicians

1649
01:27:55,200 --> 01:27:57,559
Speaker 12: and these respected organizations, because they're going to tell you

1650
01:27:57,600 --> 01:27:59,879
Speaker 12: the truth. But the problem is that that this information

1651
01:27:59,920 --> 01:28:01,559
Speaker 12: is not reaching the public.

1652
01:28:02,200 --> 01:28:05,760
Speaker 10: Yeah, and instead, yeah, they're just getting the President of

1653
01:28:05,800 --> 01:28:09,440
Speaker 10: the United States and all of these just weird conspiracy

1654
01:28:09,439 --> 01:28:12,160
Speaker 10: people that they've installed as the people running the US

1655
01:28:12,240 --> 01:28:15,840
Speaker 10: medical establishment being like, oh no, actually this is really

1656
01:28:15,960 --> 01:28:19,000
Speaker 10: bad for you for reasons.

1657
01:28:19,520 --> 01:28:22,200
Speaker 12: Yeah, it's all very vague, it's not really backed by

1658
01:28:22,880 --> 01:28:27,360
Speaker 12: like decades of medical research. And like also too, there's

1659
01:28:27,400 --> 01:28:31,639
Speaker 12: so many people who have not taken any medication during

1660
01:28:31,680 --> 01:28:35,200
Speaker 12: pregnancy and they still have children who are autistic.

1661
01:28:35,520 --> 01:28:38,680
Speaker 10: Yeah, it's just like it's just absolutely ridiculous. And like

1662
01:28:39,040 --> 01:28:41,599
Speaker 10: any way you look at the numbers, like in terms

1663
01:28:41,600 --> 01:28:44,799
Speaker 10: of you know, if you look at like the increasing

1664
01:28:44,880 --> 01:28:47,639
Speaker 10: race of tile and all usage by pregnant people versus

1665
01:28:47,720 --> 01:28:50,720
Speaker 10: like autistic kids. It's not like the timely usage goes

1666
01:28:50,760 --> 01:28:54,599
Speaker 10: up way higher and then the autistic numbers don't change

1667
01:28:54,640 --> 01:28:57,120
Speaker 10: that much relative to it. It's just like it's all

1668
01:28:57,240 --> 01:28:58,720
Speaker 10: just the nonsense.

1669
01:28:59,400 --> 01:29:00,160
Speaker 11: Well so, so.

1670
01:29:00,320 --> 01:29:03,320
Speaker 12: There is the eugenics of it all, and there's also

1671
01:29:03,920 --> 01:29:06,960
Speaker 12: the aspect that we've been dealing with with the rampant

1672
01:29:06,960 --> 01:29:11,040
Speaker 12: abortion bands and the criminalization of pregnancy that we've been

1673
01:29:11,080 --> 01:29:15,160
Speaker 12: seeing over honestly over the decades. It's about controlling bodies

1674
01:29:15,320 --> 01:29:17,240
Speaker 12: and like this is also with trans healthcare too, Like

1675
01:29:17,520 --> 01:29:20,520
Speaker 12: it's about it's about eugenics, about kind of this necropolitics

1676
01:29:20,560 --> 01:29:23,640
Speaker 12: of choosing who lives and dies and being able to

1677
01:29:23,720 --> 01:29:28,200
Speaker 12: choose everything about a person's body, even how they're just stated,

1678
01:29:28,400 --> 01:29:31,639
Speaker 12: you know, like oh, the parents shouldn't take this and

1679
01:29:31,880 --> 01:29:34,680
Speaker 12: they shouldn't do this, And then it opens up when

1680
01:29:34,680 --> 01:29:39,040
Speaker 12: it comes to control and surveillance and criminalization of a

1681
01:29:39,080 --> 01:29:42,400
Speaker 12: pregnant person that can go in so many different directions

1682
01:29:42,439 --> 01:29:44,200
Speaker 12: because you know they're telling you not to take tile

1683
01:29:44,280 --> 01:29:47,160
Speaker 12: and all. If they just randomly chose tilan Al, they

1684
01:29:47,160 --> 01:29:51,559
Speaker 12: can randomly choose anything. They could talk about epidurals, because

1685
01:29:51,600 --> 01:29:54,040
Speaker 12: there is like this idea that you should suffer and

1686
01:29:54,080 --> 01:29:55,719
Speaker 12: that you shouldn't shoot the fever, and that you should

1687
01:29:55,760 --> 01:29:58,920
Speaker 12: experience pain during pregnancy, just like that one quote that

1688
01:29:58,960 --> 01:30:01,200
Speaker 12: you shared about his wife. So they're going to like

1689
01:30:01,280 --> 01:30:05,599
Speaker 12: start targeting other things. And also there's already so much

1690
01:30:06,040 --> 01:30:10,479
Speaker 12: criticism and control and judgment and stigma over things like

1691
01:30:10,520 --> 01:30:13,599
Speaker 12: if you're working while you're pregnant, if you're drinking coffee

1692
01:30:13,640 --> 01:30:17,880
Speaker 12: while you're pregnant, if you're eating certain things. There's already

1693
01:30:17,960 --> 01:30:21,639
Speaker 12: so much like policing over pregnant bodies without even touching

1694
01:30:21,680 --> 01:30:24,880
Speaker 12: on abortion, but like they're also trying to control how

1695
01:30:24,880 --> 01:30:27,280
Speaker 12: you even dispose of pregnancies, Like if you're looking at

1696
01:30:27,320 --> 01:30:30,280
Speaker 12: the states that are requiring you to call the police

1697
01:30:30,320 --> 01:30:32,240
Speaker 12: if you have a miscarriage, so that it's like they

1698
01:30:32,240 --> 01:30:35,280
Speaker 12: want to control how you miscarry, how you have an abortion.

1699
01:30:36,080 --> 01:30:39,479
Speaker 12: Worth noting too, because this is absolutely connected to abortion

1700
01:30:39,520 --> 01:30:42,800
Speaker 12: and abortion pills. If the government is coming out and

1701
01:30:42,840 --> 01:30:45,960
Speaker 12: saying that tail and all causes autism and it's not

1702
01:30:46,000 --> 01:30:48,120
Speaker 12: safe to take while you're pregnant or to use to

1703
01:30:48,120 --> 01:30:50,679
Speaker 12: treat a fever in young children, then they can also

1704
01:30:51,320 --> 01:30:54,479
Speaker 12: say things like the abortion pill is not safe because

1705
01:30:54,560 --> 01:30:57,280
Speaker 12: they've been trying to get the FDA to take away

1706
01:30:57,680 --> 01:31:01,000
Speaker 12: the approval of mifipristoe saying that it's danger is And

1707
01:31:01,360 --> 01:31:02,760
Speaker 12: you know, if they're going to say that tile and

1708
01:31:02,800 --> 01:31:05,320
Speaker 12: all is dangerous and causes autism, then it's like it's

1709
01:31:05,360 --> 01:31:07,160
Speaker 12: going to be so easy for them to say that

1710
01:31:07,200 --> 01:31:09,439
Speaker 12: the abortion pill is deadly as well.

1711
01:31:09,720 --> 01:31:11,760
Speaker 10: And they've already been doing this with vaccines in terms

1712
01:31:11,760 --> 01:31:14,599
Speaker 10: of like it like they've been restricting access to vaccines

1713
01:31:14,600 --> 01:31:17,720
Speaker 10: to people without pre existing conditions, which admittedly is a

1714
01:31:17,760 --> 01:31:20,120
Speaker 10: lot of people, Like the list of pre existing conditions

1715
01:31:20,160 --> 01:31:22,960
Speaker 10: is really long and you should just try to get

1716
01:31:23,000 --> 01:31:26,320
Speaker 10: them anyways. But like, yeah, like this isn't a hypothetical.

1717
01:31:26,360 --> 01:31:28,960
Speaker 10: They are already doing this with vaccines, a thing that

1718
01:31:29,000 --> 01:31:31,839
Speaker 10: we do all need in order to not get horribly

1719
01:31:31,880 --> 01:31:34,479
Speaker 10: sick and die from plagues, a thing which there are

1720
01:31:34,520 --> 01:31:35,519
Speaker 10: many of right now.

1721
01:31:35,920 --> 01:31:38,040
Speaker 12: Yeah, And I think that this definitely goes to show

1722
01:31:38,160 --> 01:31:43,200
Speaker 12: how topics like abortion and early pregnancy loss and miscarriage

1723
01:31:43,520 --> 01:31:46,320
Speaker 12: and abortions later in pregnancy, like the way they've been

1724
01:31:46,320 --> 01:31:50,840
Speaker 12: talking about this has spread to all aspects of pregnancy,

1725
01:31:51,160 --> 01:31:53,760
Speaker 12: and it's spreading to other areas too, Like so when

1726
01:31:53,800 --> 01:31:57,880
Speaker 12: we haven't addressed the bands and the stigma and the criminalization,

1727
01:31:58,720 --> 01:32:01,840
Speaker 12: it's it's been spreading. It's to vaccines, it's spreading to

1728
01:32:03,120 --> 01:32:06,400
Speaker 12: trans healthcare. It's just it's just I feel like I've

1729
01:32:06,400 --> 01:32:09,840
Speaker 12: been watching this black hole just grow and grow and

1730
01:32:09,880 --> 01:32:13,000
Speaker 12: grow over the years and and just take away our

1731
01:32:13,040 --> 01:32:17,320
Speaker 12: access to these to these really basic medical things. And yeah,

1732
01:32:17,520 --> 01:32:19,519
Speaker 12: like I just see, like we let it happen with abortion,

1733
01:32:20,280 --> 01:32:22,160
Speaker 12: and then now all of a sudden, now we can't

1734
01:32:22,200 --> 01:32:25,160
Speaker 12: take thailan all during pregnancy because it caused autism. Yep,

1735
01:32:35,640 --> 01:32:39,160
Speaker 12: there's so much to say about the eugenics and autism

1736
01:32:39,200 --> 01:32:42,080
Speaker 12: aspect of this, so much to say more than like

1737
01:32:42,120 --> 01:32:43,320
Speaker 12: we can say right now.

1738
01:32:43,880 --> 01:32:47,320
Speaker 10: Don't worry. There will be another episode of this show

1739
01:32:47,320 --> 01:32:52,360
Speaker 10: about yeah, with some doctors next week probably just.

1740
01:32:52,240 --> 01:32:55,879
Speaker 12: Like focusing right now on like pregnancy and policing pregnant

1741
01:32:55,880 --> 01:33:01,360
Speaker 12: bodies and tail and all and paid bandage and what's

1742
01:33:01,439 --> 01:33:04,559
Speaker 12: real the fact that tailan al is safe to take

1743
01:33:04,600 --> 01:33:07,120
Speaker 12: while pregnant and doesn't cause autism.

1744
01:33:07,320 --> 01:33:09,360
Speaker 11: You know, it's really dwelling on that. But like, there

1745
01:33:09,400 --> 01:33:10,080
Speaker 11: is a lot to say.

1746
01:33:10,479 --> 01:33:13,000
Speaker 12: There's a lot to say about the implications of this

1747
01:33:13,680 --> 01:33:16,479
Speaker 12: where like where this came from in our society and

1748
01:33:16,520 --> 01:33:18,600
Speaker 12: where it's going, and it's all really horrifying.

1749
01:33:19,000 --> 01:33:24,120
Speaker 10: Yeah, it's it's exceptionally bleak, but I do think and

1750
01:33:24,360 --> 01:33:26,800
Speaker 10: this is I think a theme we're going to be

1751
01:33:26,840 --> 01:33:30,320
Speaker 10: returning to a lot in the coming days and weeks.

1752
01:33:30,439 --> 01:33:34,120
Speaker 10: But like, the only silver lining for this is that

1753
01:33:34,160 --> 01:33:37,840
Speaker 10: this shit is not popular. It's just not People hate it.

1754
01:33:37,920 --> 01:33:40,920
Speaker 10: People hate the administration. They have been hating the administration.

1755
01:33:41,040 --> 01:33:44,400
Speaker 10: Every day it goes by, they hate it more, you know.

1756
01:33:44,439 --> 01:33:46,439
Speaker 10: And this is part of the control strategy, right, part

1757
01:33:46,439 --> 01:33:50,520
Speaker 10: of the reason why they're making these incredibly draconian moves

1758
01:33:50,640 --> 01:33:53,840
Speaker 10: into authoritarian moves into the domestic spheres because it's a

1759
01:33:53,880 --> 01:33:56,760
Speaker 10: way of suppressing descent, and they have to do that.

1760
01:33:57,080 --> 01:33:59,320
Speaker 10: They have to suppress dessense, and they have to take

1761
01:33:59,320 --> 01:34:02,360
Speaker 10: things from us, and they have to continue to try

1762
01:34:02,400 --> 01:34:05,200
Speaker 10: to just beat everyone into submission because they can't do

1763
01:34:05,240 --> 01:34:07,839
Speaker 10: it through actual persuasion. What they have is the violence

1764
01:34:07,880 --> 01:34:10,120
Speaker 10: of the state, and they're going to try to keep

1765
01:34:10,160 --> 01:34:14,040
Speaker 10: doing that. But the violence of the state only functions

1766
01:34:14,120 --> 01:34:17,360
Speaker 10: insofar as people allow it. Shoe function, you know, And

1767
01:34:17,520 --> 01:34:19,640
Speaker 10: this has always been sort of the secret of the

1768
01:34:19,720 --> 01:34:22,200
Speaker 10: United States, which is that like a bunch of the

1769
01:34:22,240 --> 01:34:24,759
Speaker 10: things that they're doing, or they're attacked as a crackdowns

1770
01:34:24,760 --> 01:34:28,439
Speaker 10: that they're attempting to do, are effectively unenforceable because people

1771
01:34:28,479 --> 01:34:32,519
Speaker 10: simply refuse to cooperate with them. And you know, this

1772
01:34:32,720 --> 01:34:35,120
Speaker 10: is a field well, I mean, I don't know until

1773
01:34:35,160 --> 01:34:36,920
Speaker 10: they just straight up ban tile and all. This is

1774
01:34:36,920 --> 01:34:38,840
Speaker 10: a thing where I guess we're mostly just trying to

1775
01:34:38,840 --> 01:34:42,760
Speaker 10: spread information, but like the things that they do can

1776
01:34:42,840 --> 01:34:46,479
Speaker 10: be opposed, and when people oppose them on mass they lose.

1777
01:34:47,600 --> 01:34:50,680
Speaker 10: And I don't know, I want to give people a little.

1778
01:34:50,439 --> 01:34:52,439
Speaker 11: Tiny bit of hope, you want to be positive.

1779
01:34:53,120 --> 01:34:57,639
Speaker 12: Yeah, So the deterioration of public health and the United

1780
01:34:57,640 --> 01:35:02,599
Speaker 12: States is absolutely state violence. Focusing on taile andol and

1781
01:35:02,760 --> 01:35:09,160
Speaker 12: stigmatizing autism and people with autism is like distracting from

1782
01:35:09,200 --> 01:35:12,439
Speaker 12: so many things that are actual public health emergencies. So

1783
01:35:12,640 --> 01:35:15,080
Speaker 12: when they're talking about pregnancy, they're talking about tilentel and autism.

1784
01:35:15,200 --> 01:35:19,519
Speaker 12: There are so much more severe things going on in

1785
01:35:19,560 --> 01:35:22,439
Speaker 12: the United States right now when it comes to both

1786
01:35:22,520 --> 01:35:26,160
Speaker 12: the health of pregnant people and infants. So there's the

1787
01:35:26,560 --> 01:35:30,800
Speaker 12: Black maternal mortality crisis, which is so severe in so

1788
01:35:30,840 --> 01:35:34,479
Speaker 12: many states that it's just constantly like abortion bands have

1789
01:35:34,520 --> 01:35:38,799
Speaker 12: made that even worse. There's terrible infant mortality rates rising

1790
01:35:39,200 --> 01:35:43,360
Speaker 12: in states. So for example, Mississippi declared infant debts and

1791
01:35:43,479 --> 01:35:48,280
Speaker 12: emergency because they halted that CDC information data collection program.

1792
01:35:48,960 --> 01:35:53,680
Speaker 12: So Mississippi declared a public health emergency from rising infant mortality.

1793
01:35:54,200 --> 01:35:57,839
Speaker 12: And there's also I mean, I believe that the abortion

1794
01:35:57,960 --> 01:36:00,800
Speaker 12: bands are a medical crisis as well. And there's also

1795
01:36:01,280 --> 01:36:05,320
Speaker 12: huge obgyn deserts in this country, Like we're seeing like

1796
01:36:05,360 --> 01:36:10,080
Speaker 12: the loss of obgyn health providers where people can't access

1797
01:36:10,200 --> 01:36:14,320
Speaker 12: a obgyn for miles and miles and miles and there's

1798
01:36:14,400 --> 01:36:18,679
Speaker 12: just entirely a lack of providers. These are all very

1799
01:36:18,840 --> 01:36:23,800
Speaker 12: very serious public health emergencies. And yet they're talking about autism.

1800
01:36:24,160 --> 01:36:25,960
Speaker 10: Yeah. Well, and as such as they're talking about is

1801
01:36:26,000 --> 01:36:29,240
Speaker 10: they're making all of these crises worse, Like specifically the

1802
01:36:29,280 --> 01:36:32,040
Speaker 10: opgyn crisis, It's like, yeah, I don't know, they've been

1803
01:36:32,160 --> 01:36:34,479
Speaker 10: kicking a bunch of people off of their access to

1804
01:36:35,280 --> 01:36:37,280
Speaker 10: of their access to government insurance, and like what does

1805
01:36:37,320 --> 01:36:41,120
Speaker 10: that to oh wait, hold on, it just absolutely annihilates

1806
01:36:41,360 --> 01:36:43,400
Speaker 10: the income and revenue base of a bunch of hospitals

1807
01:36:43,439 --> 01:36:45,599
Speaker 10: that already like weren't making much money in rural areas,

1808
01:36:45,640 --> 01:36:47,840
Speaker 10: and so more of them close because they lease their

1809
01:36:47,840 --> 01:36:50,599
Speaker 10: revenue sources, and suddenly all of these crises just continue

1810
01:36:50,640 --> 01:36:51,240
Speaker 10: to get worse.

1811
01:36:51,600 --> 01:36:56,839
Speaker 12: Yeah, So we have like this stigmatization of autism, parents

1812
01:36:56,840 --> 01:37:03,200
Speaker 12: of autistic children, trans people, trans children, when like they're

1813
01:37:03,200 --> 01:37:06,920
Speaker 12: focusing on this and they're vilifying and dog piling and

1814
01:37:07,000 --> 01:37:12,200
Speaker 12: stigmatizing and and all of these things these groups. While

1815
01:37:12,320 --> 01:37:16,840
Speaker 12: there is this snowballing of crises, the damage already just

1816
01:37:16,880 --> 01:37:19,599
Speaker 12: from Roe v. Wade being overturned in twenty twenty two,

1817
01:37:19,720 --> 01:37:22,080
Speaker 12: Like it's like been three years and there's just been

1818
01:37:22,120 --> 01:37:27,800
Speaker 12: this like cascading just ever increasing public health disasters from it.

1819
01:37:28,320 --> 01:37:32,679
Speaker 12: And yet we're we're stigmatizing vulnerable people.

1820
01:37:33,360 --> 01:37:35,120
Speaker 10: Yeah, in the ways that we've been talking about.

1821
01:37:35,200 --> 01:37:35,400
Speaker 6: Right.

1822
01:37:35,520 --> 01:37:40,559
Speaker 10: Their ideology is about inflicting suffering on vulnerable people because

1823
01:37:40,600 --> 01:37:43,919
Speaker 10: they think that it's good. And that's a thing that's

1824
01:37:44,000 --> 01:37:49,280
Speaker 10: you know, i mean just obviously incompatible with public health

1825
01:37:50,240 --> 01:37:53,160
Speaker 10: as a concept, which is you know, part of why

1826
01:37:53,200 --> 01:37:54,960
Speaker 10: they're sort of dismantling it. Part of it is that

1827
01:37:55,000 --> 01:37:59,599
Speaker 10: these people are all like selling their own weird anti

1828
01:37:59,680 --> 01:38:02,080
Speaker 10: vaccine grift stuff that they've been selling for years and

1829
01:38:02,160 --> 01:38:06,000
Speaker 10: years and years and years, and all of this has

1830
01:38:06,040 --> 01:38:07,920
Speaker 10: just sort of come together into just the sort of

1831
01:38:07,920 --> 01:38:11,880
Speaker 10: abyss where every all, everything that was the public health

1832
01:38:11,960 --> 01:38:14,240
Speaker 10: infrastructure in this country, which was insufficient to begin with,

1833
01:38:14,320 --> 01:38:17,640
Speaker 10: i'd just been disappearing more and more into yeah.

1834
01:38:17,560 --> 01:38:19,799
Speaker 11: The erosion of our public health.

1835
01:38:20,240 --> 01:38:24,120
Speaker 12: You know, this isn't like new, these decades of you know,

1836
01:38:24,439 --> 01:38:27,000
Speaker 12: this coming into being where we are right now, but

1837
01:38:27,400 --> 01:38:30,240
Speaker 12: it's been really horrible to watch as a healthcare worker,

1838
01:38:30,760 --> 01:38:36,120
Speaker 12: as somebody who cares about just like everyone being able

1839
01:38:36,160 --> 01:38:40,400
Speaker 12: to get like evidence based care, have access to medical providers,

1840
01:38:40,479 --> 01:38:42,840
Speaker 12: and then also the ability to do whatever kind of

1841
01:38:42,840 --> 01:38:44,400
Speaker 12: health care they need to be able to do on

1842
01:38:44,439 --> 01:38:48,360
Speaker 12: their own as well to just have this solid medical information.

1843
01:38:48,840 --> 01:38:51,320
Speaker 12: And then also there's the public education of it all too,

1844
01:38:51,600 --> 01:38:56,080
Speaker 12: because already, like there's this attack on public education, which

1845
01:38:56,240 --> 01:38:59,599
Speaker 12: autistic children need a lot of support in order to thrive,

1846
01:39:00,120 --> 01:39:02,240
Speaker 12: and schools are you know, they could be equipped to

1847
01:39:02,320 --> 01:39:06,360
Speaker 12: do that where I've seen wonderful programs and wonderful education

1848
01:39:06,439 --> 01:39:08,599
Speaker 12: services that really set people up for success.

1849
01:39:08,600 --> 01:39:09,839
Speaker 11: And this goes for like everyone.

1850
01:39:10,160 --> 01:39:12,880
Speaker 12: Obviously, like any child is going to benefit from this,

1851
01:39:13,360 --> 01:39:15,640
Speaker 12: but it just it makes everything so much worse. A

1852
01:39:15,760 --> 01:39:19,800
Speaker 12: like parents and families and just autistic people just don't

1853
01:39:19,800 --> 01:39:23,719
Speaker 12: get enough support period, just like trans people as well.

1854
01:39:23,800 --> 01:39:26,080
Speaker 12: And then we're all just being thrown under the bus

1855
01:39:26,960 --> 01:39:30,559
Speaker 12: for the capitalist class and the elites so they can

1856
01:39:30,600 --> 01:39:34,960
Speaker 12: continue to like you know, hide their their pedophilia rings

1857
01:39:35,400 --> 01:39:38,680
Speaker 12: and like the whole just the fact that they're all

1858
01:39:38,720 --> 01:39:41,240
Speaker 12: like because like what you said earlier about RFK, Yeah,

1859
01:39:41,320 --> 01:39:44,320
Speaker 12: these are all a bunch of child molesters telling us

1860
01:39:44,600 --> 01:39:48,920
Speaker 12: that we're not strong or brave enough to endure pain

1861
01:39:48,960 --> 01:39:52,880
Speaker 12: that we can easily treat with the medical technology that

1862
01:39:52,920 --> 01:39:55,479
Speaker 12: we have. And I feel like I normally, I feel

1863
01:39:55,520 --> 01:39:57,400
Speaker 12: like I used to not talk like this. I used

1864
01:39:57,400 --> 01:39:59,439
Speaker 12: to not be like child molesters in the government, like

1865
01:39:59,479 --> 01:40:01,040
Speaker 12: I kind of fe but I'm like, this.

1866
01:40:00,960 --> 01:40:03,919
Speaker 11: Is literally where we are right now somehow.

1867
01:40:04,680 --> 01:40:07,040
Speaker 12: So here I am, like, you know, talking about til

1868
01:40:07,160 --> 01:40:10,680
Speaker 12: and all being safe for pregnant people Thailand all not

1869
01:40:10,760 --> 01:40:13,960
Speaker 12: causing autism, and then talking about the fact that our

1870
01:40:14,000 --> 01:40:17,840
Speaker 12: government is wrung run by a bunch of pedophiles. Not

1871
01:40:17,920 --> 01:40:20,080
Speaker 12: quite where I expected to be if you had talked

1872
01:40:20,080 --> 01:40:21,360
Speaker 12: to me like eight years ago.

1873
01:40:21,400 --> 01:40:23,400
Speaker 10: Maybe it's really something.

1874
01:40:23,760 --> 01:40:26,519
Speaker 11: It's it's really wild to be talking about this right now.

1875
01:40:27,080 --> 01:40:28,760
Speaker 11: And like we knew this was coming too.

1876
01:40:28,920 --> 01:40:31,920
Speaker 12: Like there's been months of whispers where it's like, oh, yeah,

1877
01:40:31,920 --> 01:40:34,479
Speaker 12: they're going to say tilan all causes autism. So like this,

1878
01:40:34,960 --> 01:40:37,479
Speaker 12: I knew this was coming somehow. I don't even know how.

1879
01:40:37,960 --> 01:40:38,960
Speaker 10: It's just yeah.

1880
01:40:39,000 --> 01:40:40,960
Speaker 12: I feel like it's all very transparent and like there's

1881
01:40:41,040 --> 01:40:43,320
Speaker 12: leaks and there's whatever. But I like, I knew this

1882
01:40:43,360 --> 01:40:45,639
Speaker 12: was coming for months, and yet here we are.

1883
01:40:46,360 --> 01:40:50,320
Speaker 10: Here we are, Yeah, And I don't know. I think

1884
01:40:50,360 --> 01:40:52,240
Speaker 10: that's as good of a place to end unless you

1885
01:40:52,280 --> 01:40:53,840
Speaker 10: have anything else you want to make sure you get in.

1886
01:40:54,160 --> 01:40:56,160
Speaker 12: I just want to say again that it's safe to

1887
01:40:56,200 --> 01:40:58,679
Speaker 12: take tailan all during pregnancy and it doesn't cause autism.

1888
01:40:58,840 --> 01:41:02,280
Speaker 10: Yeah, absolutely, and tell everyone you.

1889
01:41:02,320 --> 01:41:08,759
Speaker 12: Know that and share good resources like ACOG acog Physicians

1890
01:41:08,800 --> 01:41:13,839
Speaker 12: for Reproductive Health PRH I believe is their initials acronym.

1891
01:41:14,520 --> 01:41:17,120
Speaker 10: We will put links to stuff in the description of this.

1892
01:41:17,400 --> 01:41:21,880
Speaker 12: Yeah, and also ask your doctor about medication that you

1893
01:41:21,920 --> 01:41:24,639
Speaker 12: should take, whether you're predunt or not. You know, it's

1894
01:41:24,680 --> 01:41:27,919
Speaker 12: cool to ask your doctor stuff, like just ask them questions.

1895
01:41:29,680 --> 01:41:32,280
Speaker 10: Yeah, yeah, that is what they are there for.

1896
01:41:51,760 --> 01:41:54,400
Speaker 6: Gooddy and welcome to here.

1897
01:41:54,840 --> 01:41:59,000
Speaker 13: I'm Andrew Siege andrasm on YouTube and I'm here.

1898
01:41:58,960 --> 01:42:01,920
Speaker 4: With James Stout. For those of you wondering what my

1899
01:42:02,000 --> 01:42:02,599
Speaker 4: last name.

1900
01:42:02,560 --> 01:42:05,880
Speaker 13: Is, Hello, Hello, And for those who couldn't tell about

1901
01:42:05,880 --> 01:42:09,759
Speaker 13: my accent or maybe don't recognize it, I'm from Trinado, Tobago,

1902
01:42:10,000 --> 01:42:12,840
Speaker 13: but when and based and you may or may not

1903
01:42:13,000 --> 01:42:16,719
Speaker 13: have seen Trinad's name being called up in JD. Van's

1904
01:42:16,800 --> 01:42:20,800
Speaker 13: and Marco Rubio's mouths dately, particularly with the moves the

1905
01:42:20,920 --> 01:42:23,760
Speaker 13: US has been making in the Caribbean Sea as of late.

1906
01:42:24,479 --> 01:42:27,919
Speaker 13: So to provide a little context on the insighting incident

1907
01:42:28,040 --> 01:42:32,040
Speaker 13: of this episode, the current Prime Minister Trinado Biego came

1908
01:42:32,080 --> 01:42:38,679
Speaker 13: a PUSA prossessor, expressed very passionate support for the US's

1909
01:42:38,760 --> 01:42:44,880
Speaker 13: recent move on an alleged Venezuela based drug vessel. I

1910
01:42:44,960 --> 01:42:47,240
Speaker 13: say alleged because no proof has been provided that it

1911
01:42:47,400 --> 01:42:50,200
Speaker 13: was a drug vessel or anything of that nature that

1912
01:42:50,400 --> 01:42:54,040
Speaker 13: the United States struck. The Prime Minister said, and I quote,

1913
01:42:54,520 --> 01:42:57,560
Speaker 13: that she has no sympathy for traffickers and that the

1914
01:42:57,680 --> 01:43:00,720
Speaker 13: US should kill them all violently.

1915
01:43:01,479 --> 01:43:04,600
Speaker 4: Jesus Christ for those I.

1916
01:43:04,600 --> 01:43:07,000
Speaker 13: Mean most people do not know much about Trinitian politics.

1917
01:43:07,040 --> 01:43:09,720
Speaker 13: I don't expect them to. Our current prime minister she

1918
01:43:09,800 --> 01:43:13,320
Speaker 13: won this year actually, and she kind of carried on

1919
01:43:13,439 --> 01:43:18,840
Speaker 13: that trend of incumbent losing the elections that took place,

1920
01:43:19,000 --> 01:43:23,720
Speaker 13: you know, post COVID lockdown twenty twenty era. So the

1921
01:43:23,960 --> 01:43:27,519
Speaker 13: previous prime minister was Prime Minister, doctor Keith Rowley. He

1922
01:43:27,720 --> 01:43:29,960
Speaker 13: was prime minister for like ten years. He became prime

1923
01:43:29,960 --> 01:43:33,679
Speaker 13: Minister after she lost her last stint as prime minister.

1924
01:43:34,240 --> 01:43:36,760
Speaker 13: Because she's kind of a mess in a couple of

1925
01:43:36,760 --> 01:43:39,800
Speaker 13: different ways. I mean, both parties are pretty corrupt, but

1926
01:43:40,000 --> 01:43:44,479
Speaker 13: they're corrupt and incompetent in some very critical ways. Corrupt

1927
01:43:44,560 --> 01:43:48,440
Speaker 13: and racists and a couple other issues. That trend continues

1928
01:43:49,160 --> 01:43:54,240
Speaker 13: with her new candidacy. You know, she's not only feeling

1929
01:43:54,640 --> 01:43:57,360
Speaker 13: the country in some crucial ways. You know, she canceled

1930
01:43:57,439 --> 01:44:02,200
Speaker 13: our Independence Day celebrations. She fired like thousands of workers

1931
01:44:02,360 --> 01:44:08,080
Speaker 13: from a local agency that's responsible for landscaping around the

1932
01:44:08,160 --> 01:44:11,360
Speaker 13: country basically you know, cut in grass and clear entrains.

1933
01:44:11,439 --> 01:44:12,000
Speaker 6: That sort of thing.

1934
01:44:12,920 --> 01:44:15,479
Speaker 13: Fired like thousands of them, right, and all the entire

1935
01:44:15,520 --> 01:44:18,120
Speaker 13: country is overgrown and all those people have, like like

1936
01:44:18,280 --> 01:44:20,760
Speaker 13: right before their children have to go to school. You know,

1937
01:44:20,880 --> 01:44:23,880
Speaker 13: they had no income to support them. So there's like

1938
01:44:23,880 --> 01:44:26,360
Speaker 13: a lot of cruelty, a lot of corruption, a lot

1939
01:44:26,400 --> 01:44:34,160
Speaker 13: of incompetence, and in this particular case, diplomatic carelessness, recklessness

1940
01:44:34,680 --> 01:44:37,280
Speaker 13: because she goes and she says this despite the fact

1941
01:44:37,320 --> 01:44:41,240
Speaker 13: that not only the US violated law, international law, but

1942
01:44:41,479 --> 01:44:44,600
Speaker 13: also we are small. You may not be able to

1943
01:44:44,640 --> 01:44:46,479
Speaker 13: see train that in a lot of maps because we

1944
01:44:46,600 --> 01:44:49,080
Speaker 13: are small. You know, we may be one of the

1945
01:44:49,120 --> 01:44:52,920
Speaker 13: more populated Caribbean countries, but we are still small. Venezuela

1946
01:44:53,040 --> 01:44:58,600
Speaker 13: is our closest neighbor, and she has been exceedingly irresponsible

1947
01:44:59,280 --> 01:45:03,719
Speaker 13: in the ways that she approached Venezuela. Because the previous

1948
01:45:03,720 --> 01:45:09,120
Speaker 13: administration actually had an agreement with Venezuela regarding the extraction

1949
01:45:09,439 --> 01:45:13,360
Speaker 13: of their fossil fuels in the waters that are between

1950
01:45:13,439 --> 01:45:17,200
Speaker 13: Trinidad and Venezuela. We had to get permission from the

1951
01:45:17,280 --> 01:45:20,400
Speaker 13: United States to get into that agreement with Venezuela because

1952
01:45:20,479 --> 01:45:24,760
Speaker 13: Venezuela is currently under sanction, and for the longest time,

1953
01:45:25,000 --> 01:45:27,200
Speaker 13: Trinad has had to walk this sort of tight rope

1954
01:45:27,439 --> 01:45:31,439
Speaker 13: of playing nice with both the US and Venezuela. She's

1955
01:45:31,479 --> 01:45:35,439
Speaker 13: basically come in guns blazon to make state months that

1956
01:45:35,960 --> 01:45:41,240
Speaker 13: appear to be openly aggressive towards Venezuela, towards Venezuela.

1957
01:45:40,800 --> 01:45:42,240
Speaker 6: And sovereignty and so on.

1958
01:45:43,320 --> 01:45:48,000
Speaker 13: Now, her reasoning is that Trinidad has been ravaged by

1959
01:45:48,160 --> 01:45:51,280
Speaker 13: a lot of violence and addiction that have been caused

1960
01:45:51,280 --> 01:45:56,880
Speaker 13: by these drug cartails coming from South America, including Venezuela.

1961
01:45:57,439 --> 01:45:59,479
Speaker 13: This is a very real issue, the illegal gun and

1962
01:45:59,600 --> 01:46:03,759
Speaker 13: drug and human trafficking that takes place between South America

1963
01:46:03,800 --> 01:46:06,080
Speaker 13: and Trinidad. We are transship one point for that sort

1964
01:46:06,120 --> 01:46:08,519
Speaker 13: of activity, and that kind of thing brings violence.

1965
01:46:08,920 --> 01:46:09,240
Speaker 6: The US.

1966
01:46:09,280 --> 01:46:10,960
Speaker 13: Two is that while she may be able to say

1967
01:46:11,040 --> 01:46:13,960
Speaker 13: things like make God bless and protect the members of

1968
01:46:14,000 --> 01:46:17,760
Speaker 13: the US military, the US and the US military are

1969
01:46:17,840 --> 01:46:22,920
Speaker 13: in part responsible for the violence that is ravaged Latin America.

1970
01:46:23,200 --> 01:46:25,719
Speaker 6: But it's also not even particularly interested.

1971
01:46:26,040 --> 01:46:28,799
Speaker 13: Regardless of what their words may say, they're not particularly

1972
01:46:28,920 --> 01:46:31,760
Speaker 13: interested in deal with with the drug issue. At the

1973
01:46:31,840 --> 01:46:34,360
Speaker 13: end of the day, it really comes down to regime

1974
01:46:34,520 --> 01:46:38,360
Speaker 13: change and a desire to control then as well as resources.

1975
01:46:38,840 --> 01:46:40,680
Speaker 13: But let me take it back for a moment and

1976
01:46:41,400 --> 01:46:44,479
Speaker 13: provide a longer history of what's going on.

1977
01:46:44,920 --> 01:46:45,080
Speaker 3: Right.

1978
01:46:45,320 --> 01:46:49,439
Speaker 13: The United States became independent in seventeen seventy six. You know,

1979
01:46:49,600 --> 01:46:53,960
Speaker 13: Trinidad became a colony of the UK in seventeen ninety seven,

1980
01:46:54,479 --> 01:46:57,840
Speaker 13: not long after that, because prior to being under the UK,

1981
01:46:58,080 --> 01:47:01,880
Speaker 13: Trinado was under the Spanish, and while being under the

1982
01:47:01,920 --> 01:47:05,400
Speaker 13: Spanish was settled by French settlers, so it was like

1983
01:47:05,560 --> 01:47:09,879
Speaker 13: Spanish laws French settlers and then later.

1984
01:47:09,720 --> 01:47:11,680
Speaker 6: On UK governance.

1985
01:47:12,479 --> 01:47:15,439
Speaker 13: And so the War of eighteen twelve, which is you know,

1986
01:47:15,680 --> 01:47:17,400
Speaker 13: the war took place between the US and the UK,

1987
01:47:18,360 --> 01:47:23,280
Speaker 13: led to some African Americans siding with the UK and

1988
01:47:23,400 --> 01:47:28,479
Speaker 13: exchange for emancipation and in exchange for their services in

1989
01:47:28,600 --> 01:47:32,400
Speaker 13: that war. That group of people, which became North Americans,

1990
01:47:32,600 --> 01:47:37,280
Speaker 13: were resettled in South Trinidad and actually descended from some

1991
01:47:37,360 --> 01:47:42,400
Speaker 13: of them allegedly, So there is this history of exchange

1992
01:47:42,520 --> 01:47:47,200
Speaker 13: taking place between the US and Trinidad. You know, during

1993
01:47:47,240 --> 01:47:51,280
Speaker 13: World War Two, America had military bases established in Trinidad.

1994
01:47:51,400 --> 01:47:53,559
Speaker 13: We had Wall of Field which was commissioned in nineteen

1995
01:47:53,600 --> 01:47:56,280
Speaker 13: forty one and the Chagram Must Naval Base which was

1996
01:47:56,600 --> 01:48:00,559
Speaker 13: fully operational nineteen forty three, and that provided strategy, naval

1997
01:48:00,640 --> 01:48:04,960
Speaker 13: and air facilities in the Caribbean. Thanks to the destroyers

1998
01:48:05,040 --> 01:48:09,920
Speaker 13: for basses agreement with the British. The British got destroyers

1999
01:48:10,080 --> 01:48:13,760
Speaker 13: and the US got basis in the British colonies. Now,

2000
01:48:13,920 --> 01:48:17,840
Speaker 13: thankfully the BASS was scale back and eventually decommissioned and

2001
01:48:17,880 --> 01:48:20,679
Speaker 13: return into Trinian Tobey was controlled by nineteen sixty three,

2002
01:48:21,360 --> 01:48:25,680
Speaker 13: but that took a lot of protest and margin to accomplish.

2003
01:48:25,920 --> 01:48:27,799
Speaker 13: It was a whole thing or trying to get Yankee

2004
01:48:28,520 --> 01:48:32,679
Speaker 13: out of Trinidad. Yankee did provide some benefits to Trinidad

2005
01:48:32,800 --> 01:48:37,800
Speaker 13: in terms of establishing infrastructure for highways and that sort

2006
01:48:37,800 --> 01:48:42,680
Speaker 13: of thing, but there was also a not so positive social.

2007
01:48:42,360 --> 01:48:44,000
Speaker 6: Impact of the American presence.

2008
01:48:44,560 --> 01:48:48,880
Speaker 13: You know, one Calypsonian known as the Mighty Sparu sang

2009
01:48:49,080 --> 01:48:53,000
Speaker 13: in a song called Gene and Dina that basically the

2010
01:48:53,120 --> 01:48:58,720
Speaker 13: American presence funded a lot of households due to prostitution well,

2011
01:48:59,320 --> 01:49:02,320
Speaker 13: and the song was basically about how Jane and Dinah

2012
01:49:02,360 --> 01:49:04,400
Speaker 13: had to go and find other work now that the

2013
01:49:04,439 --> 01:49:08,240
Speaker 13: Americans were leaving. So, after the failure of the West

2014
01:49:08,240 --> 01:49:12,880
Speaker 13: Indies Federation and the independence of countries like Jamaica and

2015
01:49:13,080 --> 01:49:17,320
Speaker 13: Trinantobago from the UK, the location of the former military

2016
01:49:17,360 --> 01:49:22,800
Speaker 13: base Shagaramas also ended up becoming the temporary location of

2017
01:49:23,040 --> 01:49:27,519
Speaker 13: the capital of the short lived Westerndies Federation. After the

2018
01:49:28,120 --> 01:49:33,080
Speaker 13: West Indies Federation broke apart, Shagrammas became the place where

2019
01:49:33,080 --> 01:49:36,440
Speaker 13: the Treaty of Chagaramas was signed between the newly independent

2020
01:49:36,600 --> 01:49:40,080
Speaker 13: countries of Trinando, Tobago and Jamaica and so forth, which

2021
01:49:40,240 --> 01:49:44,120
Speaker 13: established Cara comm the Caribbean Community and Common Market in

2022
01:49:44,240 --> 01:49:45,160
Speaker 13: nineteen seventy three.

2023
01:49:45,840 --> 01:49:47,000
Speaker 6: CARACOM will come up later.

2024
01:49:47,560 --> 01:49:51,200
Speaker 13: Cara Commas kind of like if the EU was like

2025
01:49:52,040 --> 01:49:56,360
Speaker 13: entirely toothless and didn't really do much of anything. It's

2026
01:49:56,600 --> 01:49:59,160
Speaker 13: like a nice idea of trying to get a bit

2027
01:49:59,200 --> 01:50:04,200
Speaker 13: of regional collabor and inspiration and trade and movement. But

2028
01:50:05,080 --> 01:50:08,160
Speaker 13: it's still more expensive to go between islands than it

2029
01:50:08,320 --> 01:50:10,600
Speaker 13: is to go from an island in the US. So

2030
01:50:11,520 --> 01:50:16,760
Speaker 13: CARACOM hasn't exactly succeeded in facilitating ireland movement thus far.

2031
01:50:17,200 --> 01:50:30,080
Speaker 13: But CARACOM will come up later on right trying Tobago

2032
01:50:30,080 --> 01:50:32,839
Speaker 13: buyet independence in nineteen sixty two. We became a republic

2033
01:50:32,880 --> 01:50:36,160
Speaker 13: in nineteen seventy six, and we were under the Prime

2034
01:50:36,200 --> 01:50:39,920
Speaker 13: ministership of doctor Eric Williams from nineteen sixty two to

2035
01:50:40,120 --> 01:50:44,439
Speaker 13: nineteen eighty one. Now, doctor Eric Williams, you know, was

2036
01:50:44,479 --> 01:50:47,040
Speaker 13: our first prime minister, and so he's respecting that regard.

2037
01:50:47,240 --> 01:50:50,400
Speaker 13: He also wrote Capitalism and Slavery, which was a really

2038
01:50:50,439 --> 01:50:54,600
Speaker 13: impactful piece of literature on the you know, role of

2039
01:50:54,840 --> 01:50:58,439
Speaker 13: capitalism in the abolition of slavery, or rather the economic

2040
01:50:58,560 --> 01:51:03,000
Speaker 13: motivation for the abolitioners as opposed to the claimed moral

2041
01:51:03,720 --> 01:51:07,040
Speaker 13: virtue of the British Empire in abolish and slavery when

2042
01:51:07,080 --> 01:51:10,000
Speaker 13: it did right, right. So he did some good academic

2043
01:51:10,080 --> 01:51:12,680
Speaker 13: work and you know, he was instrumental in the establishments

2044
01:51:12,720 --> 01:51:16,679
Speaker 13: of Trinantibago was an independent country, but he also suppressed

2045
01:51:16,720 --> 01:51:19,160
Speaker 13: the black power movements that took place a little while

2046
01:51:19,320 --> 01:51:22,960
Speaker 13: after we became independent because of his failures. He also

2047
01:51:23,080 --> 01:51:27,559
Speaker 13: banned the Trindadian born American immigrant Quamitia otherwise known as

2048
01:51:27,640 --> 01:51:31,840
Speaker 13: Totally Carmichael, which is like a world renowned socialist and panafganist.

2049
01:51:32,680 --> 01:51:32,840
Speaker 6: Right.

2050
01:51:32,960 --> 01:51:36,000
Speaker 13: So, through the seventies we had an oil boom and

2051
01:51:36,240 --> 01:51:38,760
Speaker 13: we became really really industrialized. We had another boom in

2052
01:51:38,800 --> 01:51:42,519
Speaker 13: two thousands, and unlike other Cribean countries, we didn't have

2053
01:51:42,600 --> 01:51:45,280
Speaker 13: to be dependent on tourism, and so we ended up

2054
01:51:45,280 --> 01:51:49,120
Speaker 13: going in a different developmental direction. The thing about the

2055
01:51:49,160 --> 01:51:50,920
Speaker 13: oil booms is that they really had more to do

2056
01:51:51,120 --> 01:51:54,599
Speaker 13: with sitting happenings in the Middle East than really anything

2057
01:51:54,640 --> 01:51:56,720
Speaker 13: that we did. You know, the oil bom just kind of.

2058
01:51:56,720 --> 01:51:58,720
Speaker 6: Fell on our lapse in that way.

2059
01:51:58,920 --> 01:52:02,760
Speaker 13: Right three, there was an invasion of Grenada by the

2060
01:52:02,840 --> 01:52:07,920
Speaker 13: United States after Maurice Bishop's who and the Organization of

2061
01:52:08,000 --> 01:52:12,200
Speaker 13: Eastern Caribbean States Dominica, Barbados and Jamaica called for the

2062
01:52:12,360 --> 01:52:16,160
Speaker 13: US to come an assist in dealing with this Marxist

2063
01:52:16,200 --> 01:52:20,880
Speaker 13: Leninist get in power in Grenada, while Tranto Bago, the UK,

2064
01:52:21,080 --> 01:52:25,080
Speaker 13: and Canada criticized the invasion. It was a violation of

2065
01:52:25,160 --> 01:52:29,960
Speaker 13: international law according to the UN General Assembly, but as usual,

2066
01:52:31,000 --> 01:52:33,479
Speaker 13: the law doesn't really apply to the US, so nothing

2067
01:52:33,560 --> 01:52:34,080
Speaker 13: really came.

2068
01:52:33,960 --> 01:52:34,320
Speaker 6: Out of that.

2069
01:52:35,080 --> 01:52:39,320
Speaker 13: Otherwise, the relation between the US and Trinato Bago has

2070
01:52:39,479 --> 01:52:41,640
Speaker 13: been you know, we have a lot of trade. You know,

2071
01:52:41,720 --> 01:52:44,560
Speaker 13: we have a large diaspora in the US. There's a

2072
01:52:44,560 --> 01:52:47,719
Speaker 13: lot of travel between the countries. Most of our tourism

2073
01:52:47,920 --> 01:52:51,439
Speaker 13: comes from the US. We have a lot of American

2074
01:52:51,520 --> 01:52:56,479
Speaker 13: based oil and gas companies established in Trinidad, and our

2075
01:52:56,600 --> 01:53:02,360
Speaker 13: whole consumerist culture is basically a copy in many ways

2076
01:53:02,600 --> 01:53:05,080
Speaker 13: of what the US does when they sneeze, we catch

2077
01:53:05,120 --> 01:53:08,920
Speaker 13: a cool as the saying goes, Yeah, I know, I'm

2078
01:53:09,000 --> 01:53:12,519
Speaker 13: establishing a lot of context, but it's together an idea

2079
01:53:12,760 --> 01:53:16,920
Speaker 13: of how we are where we are right now. Right, so,

2080
01:53:17,160 --> 01:53:20,280
Speaker 13: next door to Trina, we have Venezuela, and we really

2081
01:53:20,400 --> 01:53:24,919
Speaker 13: had this sort of diplomatic relationship going on with Maduro

2082
01:53:25,560 --> 01:53:28,200
Speaker 13: and the USA at the same time under the former

2083
01:53:28,240 --> 01:53:32,040
Speaker 13: Prime Minister, doctor Keith Roudi, who was of the same

2084
01:53:32,120 --> 01:53:33,160
Speaker 13: party as our.

2085
01:53:33,080 --> 01:53:34,839
Speaker 6: First Prime minister, Doctor arc Williams.

2086
01:53:35,479 --> 01:53:39,080
Speaker 13: Right with the issues taking place in Venezuela right now,

2087
01:53:39,960 --> 01:53:45,000
Speaker 13: there's been a large influx of migrants from Venezuela living Intronautobego.

2088
01:53:45,360 --> 01:53:46,599
Speaker 6: Right now, we'll mainly Trinidade.

2089
01:53:46,720 --> 01:53:48,880
Speaker 13: Yeah, right, I have a lot of Venezuelans now living

2090
01:53:48,920 --> 01:53:51,120
Speaker 13: in trinad some of them legally, some of them illegally.

2091
01:53:51,840 --> 01:53:54,960
Speaker 13: Prior to that recent wave, and by recent I'm talking

2092
01:53:55,080 --> 01:53:58,800
Speaker 13: like twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen, Prior to that wave, we

2093
01:53:58,960 --> 01:54:02,840
Speaker 13: had Venezuelans introing that and we had Trinadians in Venezuela.

2094
01:54:02,479 --> 01:54:05,240
Speaker 6: Because you know, we're neighbors, right, it's close, you know.

2095
01:54:05,280 --> 01:54:08,480
Speaker 13: See you had Trinadians involved in the mining sector in Venezuela.

2096
01:54:08,840 --> 01:54:12,840
Speaker 13: You had Venezuelan's involved in the cucoa plantations in Trinidad.

2097
01:54:13,200 --> 01:54:14,800
Speaker 6: So we've always been a very.

2098
01:54:14,720 --> 01:54:19,599
Speaker 13: Mixed up group, right right, And this idea of strict

2099
01:54:19,720 --> 01:54:24,760
Speaker 13: border control between the countries is a very recent, politically

2100
01:54:24,880 --> 01:54:29,559
Speaker 13: motivated situation. Now with everything going on in Latin America

2101
01:54:29,720 --> 01:54:34,560
Speaker 13: thanks to the US intervention and the US is constantly

2102
01:54:34,640 --> 01:54:37,959
Speaker 13: failing war on drugs, we have a lot of violence

2103
01:54:38,240 --> 01:54:42,480
Speaker 13: passing between our our territories, you know, guns, drugs, human trafficking,

2104
01:54:43,040 --> 01:54:46,360
Speaker 13: as I mentioned. Yeah, and then Venezuela now is I

2105
01:54:46,400 --> 01:54:48,320
Speaker 13: mean their hands are not clean. I'm not saying any

2106
01:54:48,360 --> 01:54:50,880
Speaker 13: country's hands are cleaning this. I'm not trying to pay

2107
01:54:50,920 --> 01:54:53,360
Speaker 13: into a good guy bad guy at ecotomy. You know,

2108
01:54:53,520 --> 01:54:57,080
Speaker 13: Venezuela is still whole and strong to this claim that

2109
01:54:57,160 --> 01:55:01,400
Speaker 13: they have from since before they're in the penance that

2110
01:55:02,680 --> 01:55:03,839
Speaker 13: like more than half.

2111
01:55:03,680 --> 01:55:05,720
Speaker 6: Of Guyana actually belongs to them.

2112
01:55:06,640 --> 01:55:11,520
Speaker 13: Guyana, by the way, is an English speaking Caribbean culture

2113
01:55:12,760 --> 01:55:18,800
Speaker 13: country border in Venezuela, Surinam and Brazil. So Guyana recently

2114
01:55:18,880 --> 01:55:24,880
Speaker 13: explored and discovered a bunch of offshore reserves which you know,

2115
01:55:25,480 --> 01:55:29,640
Speaker 13: they're really excited to capitalize upon, and you know they

2116
01:55:29,800 --> 01:55:31,960
Speaker 13: have a lot of deals and agreements taking place with

2117
01:55:32,040 --> 01:55:34,800
Speaker 13: that is concerned. All of a sudden, Venezuela's like, you

2118
01:55:34,880 --> 01:55:37,160
Speaker 13: know that piece of land that we've long been saying

2119
01:55:37,320 --> 01:55:40,160
Speaker 13: is ours, Yeah, that that really is ours. And they started,

2120
01:55:40,200 --> 01:55:43,160
Speaker 13: you know, they're putting out maps claiming that most of

2121
01:55:43,240 --> 01:55:45,920
Speaker 13: Guyana is actually Venezuela and all these different things. So

2122
01:55:45,960 --> 01:55:50,520
Speaker 13: it's a very it's a very threatening situation because Venezuela

2123
01:55:50,680 --> 01:55:53,400
Speaker 13: is a military power in its own right, Yeah right,

2124
01:55:53,480 --> 01:55:57,840
Speaker 13: Guyana turned out we don't have much military prowess. So

2125
01:55:58,160 --> 01:56:00,879
Speaker 13: in a sense, I understand why both Trinidad and Guyana

2126
01:56:01,000 --> 01:56:04,360
Speaker 13: are cozying up with the US right now. But at

2127
01:56:04,400 --> 01:56:08,600
Speaker 13: the same time, this recent administration's cozying up has not

2128
01:56:08,800 --> 01:56:12,640
Speaker 13: been the most tactful, you know, because we do have

2129
01:56:13,600 --> 01:56:16,360
Speaker 13: a diplomatic approach that has worked well for US for

2130
01:56:16,360 --> 01:56:18,880
Speaker 13: a very long time. Now, the argument coulding made that

2131
01:56:19,000 --> 01:56:24,320
Speaker 13: maybe that diplomatic response, a diplomatic balance cannot be maintained

2132
01:56:24,520 --> 01:56:30,640
Speaker 13: forever our you know, neutrality cannot persist as things are

2133
01:56:30,680 --> 01:56:35,000
Speaker 13: heating up in the region. But we had an opportunity

2134
01:56:35,600 --> 01:56:39,760
Speaker 13: to respond carefully to respond in a measured fashion to

2135
01:56:39,880 --> 01:56:43,920
Speaker 13: the US's recent move with bombing the alleged drug vote.

2136
01:56:44,160 --> 01:56:45,080
Speaker 6: And we did not do that.

2137
01:56:46,120 --> 01:56:49,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a pretty squndid chance to just like say,

2138
01:56:50,240 --> 01:56:52,440
Speaker 4: you know, we should respect international law here and and

2139
01:56:52,880 --> 01:56:55,680
Speaker 4: you know, like the easiest thing to say would be

2140
01:56:55,880 --> 01:56:58,280
Speaker 4: like there's a set of prodigious for doing this, we

2141
01:56:58,320 --> 01:57:01,920
Speaker 4: could follow them. Yeah, it's not hard to say that that.

2142
01:57:02,160 --> 01:57:04,520
Speaker 13: That that deal we had with Venezuela, that was a

2143
01:57:04,600 --> 01:57:07,280
Speaker 13: deal that we were able to negotiate on the bider.

2144
01:57:07,760 --> 01:57:08,200
Speaker 6: That was the deal.

2145
01:57:08,360 --> 01:57:10,680
Speaker 13: When Trump came into power, he just took back. He

2146
01:57:10,880 --> 01:57:15,160
Speaker 13: was like, Naya, can't do that anymore. So with Trump

2147
01:57:15,320 --> 01:57:18,600
Speaker 13: going in this either with US or against this kind

2148
01:57:18,600 --> 01:57:23,080
Speaker 13: of direction, that calls for extra you know care and

2149
01:57:23,440 --> 01:57:26,400
Speaker 13: you know you kind of dealing with a bomb that

2150
01:57:26,480 --> 01:57:27,640
Speaker 13: you're trying to work around, right.

2151
01:57:28,320 --> 01:57:28,560
Speaker 4: Yeah.

2152
01:57:29,160 --> 01:57:32,560
Speaker 13: But in the same year that Trump got elected, Camera

2153
01:57:32,600 --> 01:57:35,760
Speaker 13: Pasad Prossessor, our current prime minister, got elected. You know,

2154
01:57:35,880 --> 01:57:38,520
Speaker 13: she's known for being reckless, she's known for being a

2155
01:57:38,600 --> 01:57:44,120
Speaker 13: bit of a drunkard. She's passionately pro Trump. She was

2156
01:57:44,200 --> 01:57:47,960
Speaker 13: a COVID conspiracist. In the vein of one of her

2157
01:57:47,960 --> 01:57:53,200
Speaker 13: famous Coats is sunlight will kill COVID. She's passionately pro us,

2158
01:57:53,760 --> 01:58:00,560
Speaker 13: passionately anti Muduru, passionately racist, and very much anti character. Okay,

2159
01:58:00,920 --> 01:58:03,800
Speaker 13: right now, there's a bit of a history there because

2160
01:58:04,320 --> 01:58:09,280
Speaker 13: Triniad and Guyana, two Caribbean countries, is very large East

2161
01:58:09,360 --> 01:58:14,280
Speaker 13: Indian populations, as in Indians from India. Yeah, when the

2162
01:58:14,320 --> 01:58:17,200
Speaker 13: Western New Federation was getting it start, both Guyana and

2163
01:58:17,320 --> 01:58:22,160
Speaker 13: Trinidad's Indian populations had the concern that, considering the rest

2164
01:58:22,160 --> 01:58:24,920
Speaker 13: of the Caribbean as black majority, that they would not

2165
01:58:24,960 --> 01:58:27,760
Speaker 13: be adequately represented in a West Indies federation.

2166
01:58:28,800 --> 01:58:31,840
Speaker 6: And so that sort of opposition to.

2167
01:58:32,800 --> 01:58:37,240
Speaker 13: That level of regional unity seems to have persisted within

2168
01:58:37,480 --> 01:58:43,600
Speaker 13: some circles of in East Indian or Indocribbean politics. Okay, interesting,

2169
01:58:44,000 --> 01:58:46,959
Speaker 13: not all right, but some seem to have an opposition

2170
01:58:47,120 --> 01:58:50,240
Speaker 13: to too much Carecom involvement because they feel that their

2171
01:58:50,320 --> 01:58:54,240
Speaker 13: voices were drowned out by black people. And I mean

2172
01:58:54,520 --> 01:58:56,720
Speaker 13: there's a lot of anti blackness in that community, but

2173
01:58:56,880 --> 01:59:01,640
Speaker 13: that is not the subject of this particular episode. So

2174
01:59:02,440 --> 01:59:04,840
Speaker 13: that sort of opposition to WES in these federation seems

2175
01:59:04,840 --> 01:59:07,840
Speaker 13: to have carried over into opposition towards Cara com and

2176
01:59:08,720 --> 01:59:12,400
Speaker 13: when there was loading out among P and M supporters,

2177
01:59:12,800 --> 01:59:16,120
Speaker 13: which is the party of Dr Rowley and Doctor Williams,

2178
01:59:17,360 --> 01:59:20,360
Speaker 13: as well as something parts to momentum taking place, Camela

2179
01:59:20,480 --> 01:59:24,160
Speaker 13: ended up coming into power, right, And when she came

2180
01:59:24,200 --> 01:59:28,320
Speaker 13: into power, she's making these moves, making these statements and

2181
01:59:28,520 --> 01:59:33,840
Speaker 13: disregarding cara Com and disregarding cara Comm's opinion, disregarding cara

2182
01:59:33,920 --> 01:59:36,640
Speaker 13: comm involvement in Trindad's moves and decisions.

2183
01:59:37,080 --> 01:59:38,040
Speaker 6: As a small country.

2184
01:59:38,480 --> 01:59:42,360
Speaker 13: Cara com is supposed to be our way of beefing

2185
01:59:42,440 --> 01:59:46,000
Speaker 13: up our voice on the international stage. And she's basically

2186
01:59:46,120 --> 01:59:48,800
Speaker 13: saying then that you know, we a will do our

2187
01:59:48,880 --> 01:59:54,240
Speaker 13: own thing, right. Yeah, Well, I forgot to mention another

2188
01:59:54,280 --> 01:59:57,640
Speaker 13: thing about Kamla, just for a bit of context. Cambridge

2189
01:59:57,680 --> 02:00:03,720
Speaker 13: Analytica came into turnd and basically ran an experiment using

2190
02:00:03,800 --> 02:00:07,240
Speaker 13: our elections to test out some new strategies they ended

2191
02:00:07,320 --> 02:00:08,880
Speaker 13: up taking into the US.

2192
02:00:09,800 --> 02:00:09,920
Speaker 14: Right.

2193
02:00:10,000 --> 02:00:15,800
Speaker 13: They practiced their electoral manipulation in Trinidad, which is how

2194
02:00:16,040 --> 02:00:19,440
Speaker 13: Kamla won in the first time she was elected back

2195
02:00:19,480 --> 02:00:22,760
Speaker 13: in twenty ten, twenty fifteen. It was through collaboration with

2196
02:00:22,880 --> 02:00:28,160
Speaker 13: Cambridge Analytica. So again yet another connection between the US

2197
02:00:28,320 --> 02:00:41,440
Speaker 13: and Trinidad for better and for weeks. Yeah, So what's

2198
02:00:41,440 --> 02:00:44,080
Speaker 13: happening now is that, you know, on the second of September,

2199
02:00:44,240 --> 02:00:47,560
Speaker 13: the US bombed Perrogue and claimed to kill ele from

2200
02:00:47,600 --> 02:00:51,440
Speaker 13: people and claimed that there was a drug vote, despite

2201
02:00:51,480 --> 02:00:53,560
Speaker 13: the fact that they haven't provided any proof that the

2202
02:00:53,600 --> 02:00:57,800
Speaker 13: footage was extremely grainy, and even if they did have

2203
02:00:58,000 --> 02:01:01,360
Speaker 13: proof that it was a drug vote. Summary execution on

2204
02:01:01,480 --> 02:01:04,960
Speaker 13: the High C's is not exactly in line with international though,

2205
02:01:05,360 --> 02:01:09,080
Speaker 13: right right. If these are quote unquote violent drug traffickers

2206
02:01:09,200 --> 02:01:13,400
Speaker 13: who are killing people and do not these ridiculous things,

2207
02:01:13,920 --> 02:01:16,160
Speaker 13: you're supposed to bring them in. You're supposed to interrogate them,

2208
02:01:16,240 --> 02:01:18,720
Speaker 13: You're supposed to go through a certain procedure.

2209
02:01:19,160 --> 02:01:22,760
Speaker 6: Right Yeah. All the smoking mirrors about.

2210
02:01:22,520 --> 02:01:25,360
Speaker 13: Drugs and fighting drugs and all these different things, it

2211
02:01:25,480 --> 02:01:30,200
Speaker 13: really is that smoking mirrors, because if it was about that,

2212
02:01:30,360 --> 02:01:33,400
Speaker 13: they would be trying to get information to target the

2213
02:01:33,520 --> 02:01:35,680
Speaker 13: heart of the operation. What the US is doing right

2214
02:01:35,720 --> 02:01:38,920
Speaker 13: now is flexing, right, Yeah, it's flexing their muscles in

2215
02:01:39,040 --> 02:01:41,680
Speaker 13: the region to show what it is willing to do.

2216
02:01:41,800 --> 02:01:46,000
Speaker 13: It's trying to poke and prod Veniceuelda correspond in kind

2217
02:01:46,480 --> 02:01:49,320
Speaker 13: so that it has the excuse it needs or the

2218
02:01:49,480 --> 02:01:54,800
Speaker 13: further excuse to intervene. There was another strike, another boat

2219
02:01:54,840 --> 02:01:58,400
Speaker 13: bombing on the fifteenth of September, and there was another

2220
02:01:58,480 --> 02:02:01,840
Speaker 13: strike on the ninth teenth of September against another boat.

2221
02:02:02,520 --> 02:02:08,720
Speaker 13: And it's a very very worrying place to be and

2222
02:02:08,920 --> 02:02:12,400
Speaker 13: time to be alive, right, I would say, you know,

2223
02:02:12,560 --> 02:02:15,400
Speaker 13: we have Guyana as a player. You know, they're still

2224
02:02:15,440 --> 02:02:18,280
Speaker 13: working with US oil companies. They collaborate with the US.

2225
02:02:18,360 --> 02:02:23,440
Speaker 13: They have this territorial anxiety with regards to Venezuela, and

2226
02:02:23,680 --> 02:02:25,840
Speaker 13: they're part of Cara com Guhyana's part of Cara Coom

2227
02:02:25,960 --> 02:02:28,640
Speaker 13: trying to you know, work it out through that channel

2228
02:02:28,840 --> 02:02:33,000
Speaker 13: and through other channels. Venezuela, in response to Camera's energy,

2229
02:02:33,320 --> 02:02:37,160
Speaker 13: has basically put out steep bands talking about, hey, this

2230
02:02:37,440 --> 02:02:40,080
Speaker 13: Cama lady kind of crazy or show about that because

2231
02:02:40,120 --> 02:02:43,760
Speaker 13: if any US missile comes out to Trinidad, we are

2232
02:02:43,840 --> 02:02:45,440
Speaker 13: responding to Trinidad.

2233
02:02:45,360 --> 02:02:48,120
Speaker 4: Right in Trinidad is like not the same as the US,

2234
02:02:48,360 --> 02:02:51,040
Speaker 4: right like like that, it is not like mutually assured

2235
02:02:51,080 --> 02:02:52,839
Speaker 4: destruction exactly.

2236
02:02:53,120 --> 02:02:56,760
Speaker 13: So she is, you know, speaking very recklessly and in

2237
02:02:56,840 --> 02:03:00,360
Speaker 13: the meantime, the Venezuela's saying response, you know, if any

2238
02:03:00,440 --> 02:03:04,920
Speaker 13: sort of US incursion is launched out of Trinidad, which

2239
02:03:05,320 --> 02:03:07,760
Speaker 13: she invited, by the way, she said, a US CAD

2240
02:03:07,800 --> 02:03:09,440
Speaker 13: based whatever they want and here if they want to

2241
02:03:09,520 --> 02:03:13,200
Speaker 13: be a standing ready we right. I don't know where

2242
02:03:13,280 --> 02:03:18,120
Speaker 13: she got this WII from, but she's saying, oh, yeah,

2243
02:03:18,160 --> 02:03:20,000
Speaker 13: they could come and they could you know, launch stuff

2244
02:03:20,000 --> 02:03:24,160
Speaker 13: from here. And Venezuela's like, you're talking kind of crazy

2245
02:03:24,280 --> 02:03:27,120
Speaker 13: right now. You should care about your citizens because we

2246
02:03:27,240 --> 02:03:29,440
Speaker 13: know your citizens don't like what you're doing, So why

2247
02:03:29,440 --> 02:03:32,320
Speaker 13: are you doing this kind of thing? Yeah, And it's

2248
02:03:32,360 --> 02:03:35,080
Speaker 13: bigger than just when as we love the US and Trinidad,

2249
02:03:35,200 --> 02:03:39,240
Speaker 13: because Venezuela is also aligned with Russia. Right, it's I

2250
02:03:39,320 --> 02:03:42,680
Speaker 13: believe Russia's only ally in the Western hemisphere.

2251
02:03:43,560 --> 02:03:43,720
Speaker 6: Right.

2252
02:03:44,320 --> 02:03:47,000
Speaker 13: And while the drug issue and the crime issue is

2253
02:03:47,440 --> 02:03:50,360
Speaker 13: a significant concern, most of the drugs are coming from

2254
02:03:50,440 --> 02:03:53,000
Speaker 13: Colombia in the first place, which the US is not

2255
02:03:53,120 --> 02:03:53,919
Speaker 13: currently targeting.

2256
02:03:54,920 --> 02:03:55,080
Speaker 9: Right.

2257
02:03:55,360 --> 02:03:57,839
Speaker 13: And at the end of the day, as I mentioned earlier,

2258
02:03:58,080 --> 02:04:01,560
Speaker 13: it seems to be coming down to regime change and

2259
02:04:02,280 --> 02:04:05,840
Speaker 13: resources and the control of Venezuela's resources. You know, we

2260
02:04:06,040 --> 02:04:10,080
Speaker 13: are now in a situation where our fishermen are having

2261
02:04:10,160 --> 02:04:13,400
Speaker 13: to stay home out of fail Oh geez, that their

2262
02:04:13,640 --> 02:04:17,160
Speaker 13: fishing boats could be struck out of the water.

2263
02:04:17,360 --> 02:04:17,560
Speaker 7: Yeah.

2264
02:04:17,640 --> 02:04:20,480
Speaker 13: Yeah, you know, we are in a situation where Camera's

2265
02:04:20,560 --> 02:04:24,200
Speaker 13: fan base is just as trumpion and cultish as the

2266
02:04:24,320 --> 02:04:28,080
Speaker 13: Marca based seemingly seems to be perfectly fine with what's

2267
02:04:28,120 --> 02:04:31,120
Speaker 13: going on. Although in some ways I think that that

2268
02:04:31,280 --> 02:04:37,240
Speaker 13: might even be astroturfed or inflated artificially, because there was

2269
02:04:37,320 --> 02:04:41,440
Speaker 13: recently an expos that determined a lot of the pro

2270
02:04:41,840 --> 02:04:45,160
Speaker 13: unc which is Camera's party, the pro unc pro Kamela

2271
02:04:46,120 --> 02:04:48,280
Speaker 13: buzz that occurs on social media.

2272
02:04:48,920 --> 02:04:51,080
Speaker 6: It's bot driven, Like you go into these.

2273
02:04:51,040 --> 02:04:54,560
Speaker 13: Profiles and their bots just you know, fake names, fake

2274
02:04:54,600 --> 02:04:57,120
Speaker 13: profer pictures, AI posts.

2275
02:04:56,880 --> 02:04:59,960
Speaker 4: Oh geez, yeah, yeah, it's just entirely fabricated.

2276
02:05:00,880 --> 02:05:02,760
Speaker 13: This is also at a time when the US is

2277
02:05:02,840 --> 02:05:08,200
Speaker 13: building a massive embassy in our country, when cameras seemingly

2278
02:05:08,280 --> 02:05:12,160
Speaker 13: open in the floodgates to military collaboration with the US,

2279
02:05:12,760 --> 02:05:15,720
Speaker 13: where we are dealing with our own economic woles and

2280
02:05:15,880 --> 02:05:19,160
Speaker 13: crime wars and so on. And you know, we also

2281
02:05:19,280 --> 02:05:21,720
Speaker 13: have the largest Chinese embassy in the region, and we

2282
02:05:21,800 --> 02:05:25,360
Speaker 13: have a lot of collab with China. We may recently

2283
02:05:25,400 --> 02:05:30,600
Speaker 13: made moves to recognize Palestine with a Palestinian diplomat now

2284
02:05:30,640 --> 02:05:35,000
Speaker 13: reside in the country. It feels like we are putting

2285
02:05:35,560 --> 02:05:40,760
Speaker 13: ourselves in a very risky position, and whether or not

2286
02:05:40,960 --> 02:05:42,960
Speaker 13: we could have done more or less to get out

2287
02:05:43,000 --> 02:05:46,160
Speaker 13: of this position, you know, considering the US has its

2288
02:05:46,240 --> 02:05:50,360
Speaker 13: backyard policy with regard to the rest of the Americas,

2289
02:05:51,080 --> 02:05:54,560
Speaker 13: with regard to the fact that Trump has created this

2290
02:05:54,680 --> 02:05:58,320
Speaker 13: Department of War, that the US seems to be flailing

2291
02:05:58,360 --> 02:06:01,960
Speaker 13: around as a dieing empire. Does the fact that the

2292
02:06:02,040 --> 02:06:04,880
Speaker 13: Criminan has been called out so frequently with violence in

2293
02:06:04,920 --> 02:06:07,760
Speaker 13: an effort to manufacture consent for what seems to be

2294
02:06:07,800 --> 02:06:10,200
Speaker 13: coming next, With the fact that there was a field

2295
02:06:10,240 --> 02:06:14,520
Speaker 13: intervention to overthrow Maduro in the past, known as Operation Gideon,

2296
02:06:14,920 --> 02:06:18,800
Speaker 13: right back in twenty twenty, all this has me a

2297
02:06:18,880 --> 02:06:19,440
Speaker 13: but stressed.

2298
02:06:19,880 --> 02:06:23,040
Speaker 4: Yeah. I mean, there was a particularly insane attempt to

2299
02:06:23,400 --> 02:06:26,960
Speaker 4: throw Madeira in twenty twenty, right, the Silver Core thing.

2300
02:06:27,600 --> 02:06:33,240
Speaker 13: Yeah, yeah, they had this American security foom and some

2301
02:06:33,520 --> 02:06:37,600
Speaker 13: Venezuelan dissidents just they tried to inflam as I see,

2302
02:06:38,040 --> 02:06:40,520
Speaker 13: and basically as soon as they landed they got arrested.

2303
02:06:40,720 --> 02:06:43,240
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, I think some of them got detained by

2304
02:06:43,320 --> 02:06:48,400
Speaker 4: Venezuelan fishermen who realized they only had BB guns. It

2305
02:06:48,520 --> 02:06:53,080
Speaker 4: sucks that, Like having spent time in Venezuela and with

2306
02:06:53,280 --> 02:06:58,360
Speaker 4: Venezuelan people a lot, you know, for years now, it's

2307
02:06:58,480 --> 02:07:00,720
Speaker 4: Venezuelan people who are going to pay price for all

2308
02:07:00,760 --> 02:07:03,760
Speaker 4: of this, right, Like it's not and potentially people in

2309
02:07:03,800 --> 02:07:07,480
Speaker 4: Trinidut of Tobago as well, Like they very clearly do

2310
02:07:07,640 --> 02:07:12,760
Speaker 4: not want Maduro to be running their country, right. I

2311
02:07:12,880 --> 02:07:14,120
Speaker 4: saw that in the election, and we saw that in

2312
02:07:14,160 --> 02:07:18,440
Speaker 4: the protests after election. They have every reason to want

2313
02:07:18,480 --> 02:07:20,520
Speaker 4: to leave the country and go somewhere safe, but that's

2314
02:07:20,560 --> 02:07:21,640
Speaker 4: not possible for many of them.

2315
02:07:21,760 --> 02:07:23,160
Speaker 13: Yeah, I mean, like I said, there's a lot of

2316
02:07:23,240 --> 02:07:26,800
Speaker 13: Venezuelan's intron at right now. Yeah, so any moves that

2317
02:07:26,880 --> 02:07:28,840
Speaker 13: advanced with us make, and they're obviously going to make

2318
02:07:29,000 --> 02:07:31,120
Speaker 13: with consideration to the fact that they have their own

2319
02:07:31,160 --> 02:07:32,600
Speaker 13: people internet as well.

2320
02:07:32,880 --> 02:07:36,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, And like they're being demonized even though they've

2321
02:07:36,240 --> 02:07:39,920
Speaker 4: done everything they can to separate themselves from Maduro and

2322
02:07:40,040 --> 02:07:41,920
Speaker 4: like they are being.

2323
02:07:42,240 --> 02:07:44,720
Speaker 6: Yeah, there's unfortunately a lot of enophobia in Trinidad.

2324
02:07:45,280 --> 02:07:47,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's really sad, like and we see it here too, Right,

2325
02:07:48,000 --> 02:07:50,520
Speaker 4: this allegation that they're all gang members, which is like,

2326
02:07:50,600 --> 02:07:53,879
Speaker 4: if we think that gang violence is bad in Venezuela

2327
02:07:53,960 --> 02:07:56,920
Speaker 4: and im parts of Venezuela is bad, then surely it

2328
02:07:56,920 --> 02:07:58,680
Speaker 4: would make sense to people who don't want any part

2329
02:07:58,720 --> 02:08:03,080
Speaker 4: in that might leave somewhere else. Yeah, and rather than

2330
02:08:03,160 --> 02:08:07,400
Speaker 4: supporting them, we're just we're just killing like the the

2331
02:08:08,080 --> 02:08:11,800
Speaker 4: lowest tier people, right, Like, even if we entertain the

2332
02:08:11,920 --> 02:08:14,720
Speaker 4: idea that the boat could have been carrying drugs, and

2333
02:08:14,800 --> 02:08:16,920
Speaker 4: when we put aside the fact that hasn't been proven

2334
02:08:17,000 --> 02:08:20,320
Speaker 4: of the boats plural the people driving the boats and

2335
02:08:20,400 --> 02:08:23,840
Speaker 4: other people like making the calls here, yeah, they're the

2336
02:08:23,880 --> 02:08:24,560
Speaker 4: people being.

2337
02:08:24,480 --> 02:08:26,600
Speaker 6: Killed, exactly exactly.

2338
02:08:26,640 --> 02:08:29,720
Speaker 13: It's the same principle with all these these these drug

2339
02:08:29,840 --> 02:08:33,120
Speaker 13: bus and and and gang bus that take place in Drainad.

2340
02:08:33,440 --> 02:08:35,640
Speaker 13: You know, they go and they roll in and they

2341
02:08:36,440 --> 02:08:40,320
Speaker 13: arrass these small fries, but the big bosses call them

2342
02:08:40,360 --> 02:08:46,280
Speaker 13: the shots unharmed. Yeah, you know, the multinational criminal empires

2343
02:08:46,360 --> 02:08:48,880
Speaker 13: that aren't moving the people and moving the drugs, moving

2344
02:08:48,920 --> 02:08:51,879
Speaker 13: the guns in the region, they're untouched.

2345
02:08:52,280 --> 02:08:52,520
Speaker 6: Yeah.

2346
02:08:52,640 --> 02:08:56,880
Speaker 4: And like even the Maduro's to nephews, like they were

2347
02:08:56,920 --> 02:08:59,880
Speaker 4: released after they were detained for trying to run drugs

2348
02:09:00,040 --> 02:09:02,960
Speaker 4: I hat right Like, like you say, the people making

2349
02:09:03,440 --> 02:09:08,680
Speaker 4: the real decisions are largely insulated from all this. It's

2350
02:09:08,760 --> 02:09:13,560
Speaker 4: working people in Venezuela who, like, they don't have other opportunities, right, Like,

2351
02:09:13,640 --> 02:09:18,960
Speaker 4: I have heard the most disheartening stories, especially for Venezuelan fishermen, right, Like,

2352
02:09:19,240 --> 02:09:22,800
Speaker 4: their economy is so bad that they are not able

2353
02:09:22,880 --> 02:09:26,080
Speaker 4: to put fuel in their boats. It wouldn't be economical

2354
02:09:26,120 --> 02:09:29,480
Speaker 4: to put fuel in their fishing boats, even if they

2355
02:09:29,560 --> 02:09:31,320
Speaker 4: caught a full load of fish. They wouldn't be able.

2356
02:09:31,440 --> 02:09:33,840
Speaker 4: No one has any money to buy the fish at

2357
02:09:33,920 --> 02:09:36,720
Speaker 4: a high price, so they can't pay for the fuel.

2358
02:09:36,720 --> 02:09:38,520
Speaker 4: And this is a country which sits on a massive

2359
02:09:38,600 --> 02:09:42,160
Speaker 4: oil reserve. But yeah, yeah, people can't afford to put

2360
02:09:42,200 --> 02:09:45,280
Speaker 4: fuel in their fishing boats. Like you know, these people

2361
02:09:45,520 --> 02:09:48,640
Speaker 4: are victims of a system that has left them with

2362
02:09:48,800 --> 02:09:51,160
Speaker 4: very few opportunities, and the way we're responding is by

2363
02:09:51,240 --> 02:09:53,760
Speaker 4: killing them and by destabilizing a whole part of the

2364
02:09:53,840 --> 02:09:56,960
Speaker 4: world that no one asks for this there, you know,

2365
02:09:57,400 --> 02:09:58,920
Speaker 4: apart from apparently your Prime minister.

2366
02:10:01,040 --> 02:10:05,760
Speaker 13: Yeah, so, I mean, this was a very rambly episode,

2367
02:10:05,960 --> 02:10:09,280
Speaker 13: more ambley than my usual, but I just wanted to

2368
02:10:09,320 --> 02:10:11,640
Speaker 13: get the word out on what's going on in my

2369
02:10:11,760 --> 02:10:14,520
Speaker 13: corner of the globe. To let the Americans and dance

2370
02:10:14,560 --> 02:10:17,680
Speaker 13: know to you know, please do what you can to

2371
02:10:18,240 --> 02:10:23,760
Speaker 13: stand to speak out against this American intervention. Educate yourself

2372
02:10:23,760 --> 02:10:26,480
Speaker 13: from what's going on. For trainees who may be in

2373
02:10:26,560 --> 02:10:30,600
Speaker 13: the audience, you know, probably hunkered down and have a

2374
02:10:31,840 --> 02:10:35,520
Speaker 13: crisis bag or emergency bag set up if worst comes

2375
02:10:35,560 --> 02:10:39,400
Speaker 13: to worst, and everyone else, really just get the knowledge

2376
02:10:39,440 --> 02:10:42,480
Speaker 13: and do what you can in your area to disrupt

2377
02:10:42,520 --> 02:10:43,080
Speaker 13: this machine.

2378
02:10:43,680 --> 02:10:47,200
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, that's it for me. All power to all

2379
02:10:47,240 --> 02:10:47,640
Speaker 6: the people.

2380
02:10:48,400 --> 02:11:08,600
Speaker 10: Please, this is it could happen here.

2381
02:11:08,680 --> 02:11:11,960
Speaker 8: Executive Disorder our weekly newscast covering what's happening in the

2382
02:11:12,000 --> 02:11:14,120
Speaker 8: White House, the crumbling world what it means for you.

2383
02:11:14,560 --> 02:11:17,480
Speaker 8: I'm Garrison Davis. Today I'm joined by Miawong Jamestown and

2384
02:11:17,680 --> 02:11:20,880
Speaker 8: Robert Evans. This week we're covering the week of September

2385
02:11:21,040 --> 02:11:23,480
Speaker 8: eighteen to September twenty four.

2386
02:11:24,120 --> 02:11:27,000
Speaker 4: Luckily, nothink that remarkable has happened as a bit short.

2387
02:11:26,840 --> 02:11:31,280
Speaker 8: One another famously slow newsweek in the United States of

2388
02:11:31,320 --> 02:11:34,520
Speaker 8: America and abroad. Only the most stable out of all

2389
02:11:34,640 --> 02:11:35,839
Speaker 8: democratic countries.

2390
02:11:36,120 --> 02:11:39,680
Speaker 2: Yeah oh yeah, I mean of the democracies were easily

2391
02:11:39,840 --> 02:11:42,920
Speaker 2: the most democratic.

2392
02:11:43,200 --> 02:11:45,920
Speaker 4: Shining city on a hill. It's all saying that's right,

2393
02:11:46,080 --> 02:11:50,080
Speaker 4: that's right, elevated. Yeah, so let's talk about this guy

2394
02:11:50,240 --> 02:11:53,200
Speaker 4: who opened fire and ice detention facility to start off with.

2395
02:11:53,320 --> 02:11:55,800
Speaker 2: Then sure, that's the big news story today is that

2396
02:11:55,920 --> 02:11:58,400
Speaker 2: there's been a shooting at an ICE facility in Dallas.

2397
02:11:58,560 --> 02:12:00,960
Speaker 2: This is not the first shooting at a North Texas

2398
02:12:01,040 --> 02:12:05,760
Speaker 2: ice facility this year. Two detainees were killed and one injured.

2399
02:12:06,160 --> 02:12:09,080
Speaker 2: Last I saw, they were in an ice van. It

2400
02:12:09,160 --> 02:12:13,040
Speaker 2: looks like and the shooter killed themselves pretty quickly. It

2401
02:12:13,160 --> 02:12:16,160
Speaker 2: seems like, yeah, like fired a few rounds and then

2402
02:12:16,280 --> 02:12:16,960
Speaker 2: killed themselves.

2403
02:12:17,200 --> 02:12:17,360
Speaker 6: Yeah.

2404
02:12:18,000 --> 02:12:20,560
Speaker 4: Cash Hotel, who's the director to the FBI, shared pretty

2405
02:12:20,600 --> 02:12:23,560
Speaker 4: quickly after shooting on x dot com the Everything website

2406
02:12:23,920 --> 02:12:26,400
Speaker 4: a photo of a strip eclip of what looks a

2407
02:12:26,400 --> 02:12:30,480
Speaker 4: lot like ain't milimeter Mauser ammunition. One round had the

2408
02:12:30,560 --> 02:12:34,280
Speaker 4: wood anti ice written on it in blue pen in

2409
02:12:34,440 --> 02:12:35,560
Speaker 4: block capital letters.

2410
02:12:36,080 --> 02:12:42,080
Speaker 2: Yeah lazy, we can agree on that, like, especially compared

2411
02:12:42,120 --> 02:12:46,120
Speaker 2: to etching them onto a bullet. This has been I

2412
02:12:46,240 --> 02:12:50,440
Speaker 2: think immediately adopted by God. I mean, it seems like

2413
02:12:50,840 --> 02:12:53,800
Speaker 2: I haven't done a deep survey, but most of the

2414
02:12:53,880 --> 02:12:58,360
Speaker 2: liberals and leftists that I follow on both Twitter and

2415
02:12:58,600 --> 02:13:02,480
Speaker 2: Blue Sky, and on just looking at friends on Facebook.

2416
02:13:02,680 --> 02:13:05,800
Speaker 2: They have pretty immediately gone after this as a false

2417
02:13:05,880 --> 02:13:06,640
Speaker 2: flag or something.

2418
02:13:06,800 --> 02:13:09,880
Speaker 10: Liberals and left us casting doubt on the authenticity of this.

2419
02:13:11,240 --> 02:13:13,520
Speaker 2: I'm seeing both people be like, well, the shooter must

2420
02:13:13,560 --> 02:13:16,080
Speaker 2: have been a right winger who lazily put anti ice

2421
02:13:16,120 --> 02:13:17,960
Speaker 2: on the bullet or this is some sort of federal

2422
02:13:18,000 --> 02:13:20,480
Speaker 2: conspiracy but a lot of conspiracism here.

2423
02:13:21,040 --> 02:13:24,400
Speaker 8: Yeah, we simply don't know very much about the shooting

2424
02:13:24,520 --> 02:13:28,880
Speaker 8: at this point. It's unclear who the shooter was aiming for.

2425
02:13:29,000 --> 02:13:31,360
Speaker 8: If they were just aiming at Ice property right like

2426
02:13:31,600 --> 02:13:35,360
Speaker 8: unknowingly shooting like migrant detainees inside.

2427
02:13:35,400 --> 02:13:37,280
Speaker 2: Did they think whoever was an advan was a cop?

2428
02:13:38,080 --> 02:13:38,280
Speaker 5: Yeah?

2429
02:13:38,880 --> 02:13:42,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, most of this lines up with the person being

2430
02:13:42,720 --> 02:13:44,960
Speaker 4: the sort of person who ends up being a high

2431
02:13:45,000 --> 02:13:49,160
Speaker 4: profile shooter, right Like. They're not so much an ideologically

2432
02:13:49,280 --> 02:13:52,920
Speaker 4: motivated person. It's someone who, like you say, pretty low effort,

2433
02:13:52,960 --> 02:13:55,360
Speaker 4: wrote anti ice on their bullets at the last minute

2434
02:13:55,360 --> 02:13:57,320
Speaker 4: of not on the bullet but on the casing that

2435
02:13:57,440 --> 02:14:00,040
Speaker 4: holds the fucking powder that the bullet goes in. I

2436
02:14:00,040 --> 02:14:01,440
Speaker 4: can understand how that works.

2437
02:14:01,920 --> 02:14:04,560
Speaker 2: And this just fits. This is something I tried to

2438
02:14:04,640 --> 02:14:10,680
Speaker 2: talk about pretty regularly, shootings in the United States are

2439
02:14:10,760 --> 02:14:14,280
Speaker 2: heavily driven by mimetic spread.

2440
02:14:14,600 --> 02:14:14,760
Speaker 6: Right.

2441
02:14:14,920 --> 02:14:16,920
Speaker 2: This has been happening since Columbine. There have been more

2442
02:14:16,960 --> 02:14:20,640
Speaker 2: than one hundred copycat shootings of Columbine. And you do

2443
02:14:20,840 --> 02:14:23,400
Speaker 2: have shooters who are let's say original, right, like the

2444
02:14:23,480 --> 02:14:26,120
Speaker 2: christ Church shooter, where they have new ideas for things

2445
02:14:26,160 --> 02:14:28,760
Speaker 2: to do in mass shootings, and then in the wake

2446
02:14:28,840 --> 02:14:32,320
Speaker 2: of those, because whenever someone does something really new, it

2447
02:14:32,440 --> 02:14:35,520
Speaker 2: gets a lot of attention, right, Like, if there's a

2448
02:14:36,040 --> 02:14:39,200
Speaker 2: mass shooting that like gets a lot more media coverage

2449
02:14:39,240 --> 02:14:41,880
Speaker 2: than other ones, there will be people who copy it

2450
02:14:41,960 --> 02:14:45,480
Speaker 2: and who copy specific aspects of that shooting. And what

2451
02:14:45,560 --> 02:14:48,120
Speaker 2: I'm seeing with this guy that kind of just fits

2452
02:14:48,160 --> 02:14:50,560
Speaker 2: into that pattern is you had a really high profile

2453
02:14:50,600 --> 02:14:52,760
Speaker 2: North Texas shooting at a nice facility. Then you had

2454
02:14:52,760 --> 02:14:55,360
Speaker 2: a really high profile shooting where somebody with a hunting

2455
02:14:55,480 --> 02:14:59,680
Speaker 2: rifle shot at targets from the top of a roof. Right,

2456
02:15:00,120 --> 02:15:02,360
Speaker 2: I'm seeing both of those things in this shooting, and

2457
02:15:02,480 --> 02:15:06,160
Speaker 2: I guess it's just like, yeah, that kind of scans

2458
02:15:06,200 --> 02:15:06,920
Speaker 2: to me, you know.

2459
02:15:07,560 --> 02:15:10,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess another thing that has been fueling this

2460
02:15:10,880 --> 02:15:15,880
Speaker 4: conspiracy zerm so the guy used a Mauser rifle, different

2461
02:15:15,960 --> 02:15:18,200
Speaker 4: type of Mauser rifle to the last one. It looks

2462
02:15:18,240 --> 02:15:20,480
Speaker 4: to me like a Con ninety eight.

2463
02:15:20,720 --> 02:15:20,920
Speaker 6: Yeah.

2464
02:15:21,120 --> 02:15:23,080
Speaker 2: The previous one was a very old Mauser that had

2465
02:15:23,120 --> 02:15:25,240
Speaker 2: been rebarreled the thirty eight to six, which is a

2466
02:15:25,360 --> 02:15:28,400
Speaker 2: very common American round. This one looks to have been

2467
02:15:28,440 --> 02:15:30,880
Speaker 2: an original Car ninety eight K that was still an

2468
02:15:30,960 --> 02:15:33,560
Speaker 2: eight millimeter Mauser, which was the gun the Nazi that

2469
02:15:33,680 --> 02:15:35,880
Speaker 2: was the standard battle rifle of the Wehrmacht during World

2470
02:15:35,920 --> 02:15:38,800
Speaker 2: War Two. It's not weird he would have access to that.

2471
02:15:38,880 --> 02:15:40,880
Speaker 2: He probably didn't have to buy it or passed a

2472
02:15:40,920 --> 02:15:43,800
Speaker 2: background check to get it. Looking at Garrison found his

2473
02:15:43,960 --> 02:15:47,360
Speaker 2: mother's Facebook. They'll talk some more about that, but one

2474
02:15:47,400 --> 02:15:48,840
Speaker 2: of the things that was on there is her talking

2475
02:15:48,840 --> 02:15:50,960
Speaker 2: about how she recently had to clean out like a

2476
02:15:51,040 --> 02:15:54,560
Speaker 2: barn and a farm that her grandfather and dad had

2477
02:15:54,600 --> 02:15:56,360
Speaker 2: owned and get rid of a lot of their stuff.

2478
02:15:57,120 --> 02:15:59,040
Speaker 2: It kind of makes sense to me. One of them

2479
02:15:59,280 --> 02:16:01,080
Speaker 2: very likely was the veteran could have brought back a

2480
02:16:01,120 --> 02:16:04,040
Speaker 2: Car ninety eight K, as hundreds of thousands of gis did, yeah,

2481
02:16:04,080 --> 02:16:06,040
Speaker 2: from the war, and it would have just gotten passed

2482
02:16:06,080 --> 02:16:08,120
Speaker 2: down under the family right, not weird.

2483
02:16:08,320 --> 02:16:10,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, no way at all. Like you say, there are

2484
02:16:10,280 --> 02:16:12,680
Speaker 4: probably hundreds of thousands of these in the United States.

2485
02:16:13,000 --> 02:16:15,720
Speaker 2: It was very common. And again that's more or less

2486
02:16:15,760 --> 02:16:19,160
Speaker 2: probably what happened with the Charlie kirkshooter. Why they had

2487
02:16:19,760 --> 02:16:22,320
Speaker 2: a mouser, right, Yeah, because it was their grandpa's rifle.

2488
02:16:22,440 --> 02:16:24,640
Speaker 2: Probably had it re rebarreled or whatever.

2489
02:16:24,800 --> 02:16:29,080
Speaker 4: You know. Yeah, not uncommon at all someone in especially

2490
02:16:29,080 --> 02:16:31,160
Speaker 4: somewhere like Texas where you know, those rifles even if

2491
02:16:31,200 --> 02:16:32,800
Speaker 4: you didn't bring them back from World War One, like

2492
02:16:33,280 --> 02:16:36,039
Speaker 4: could have been obtained by private party transfer any time

2493
02:16:36,120 --> 02:16:39,360
Speaker 4: in the last seventy five years. So he'd been placed

2494
02:16:39,360 --> 02:16:44,040
Speaker 4: on probation for twenty sixteen marijuana offense, for which he

2495
02:16:44,280 --> 02:16:49,240
Speaker 4: pled guilty and received deferred adjudication. I guess in Texas

2496
02:16:49,320 --> 02:16:51,880
Speaker 4: it's considered dealing marijuana, But it just seems to be

2497
02:16:52,040 --> 02:16:55,119
Speaker 4: that he was in possession of an amount greater than

2498
02:16:55,680 --> 02:16:59,600
Speaker 4: a quarter ounce but less than five pounds. Maybe that's

2499
02:16:59,920 --> 02:17:01,920
Speaker 4: not that familiar with Texas law in that regard, but

2500
02:17:03,040 --> 02:17:05,640
Speaker 4: that is a thing that we found out about him.

2501
02:17:06,200 --> 02:17:07,680
Speaker 4: I'll just add that, Like, I don't know if that

2502
02:17:07,720 --> 02:17:10,440
Speaker 4: effects his ability to obtain a new firearm by doing

2503
02:17:10,480 --> 02:17:11,720
Speaker 4: a forty four to seventy three.

2504
02:17:12,120 --> 02:17:14,920
Speaker 2: It's it's unclear, but it wouldn't. It doesn't matter in

2505
02:17:15,080 --> 02:17:17,600
Speaker 2: Texas because again, you can just meet a guy in

2506
02:17:17,640 --> 02:17:18,920
Speaker 2: a parking lot and buy.

2507
02:17:18,800 --> 02:17:21,680
Speaker 4: A gun exactly. Yeah, it's not relevant as I.

2508
02:17:21,760 --> 02:17:24,320
Speaker 2: Did when I lived in Texas almost every month.

2509
02:17:27,720 --> 02:17:30,680
Speaker 4: Would be great today of Texas. Yeah, see, it's easy

2510
02:17:30,720 --> 02:17:31,560
Speaker 4: to get a gun in Texas.

2511
02:17:31,680 --> 02:17:33,000
Speaker 2: How did he get the gun? It could have he

2512
02:17:33,040 --> 02:17:35,280
Speaker 2: could have gotten it by accident. He could have traded

2513
02:17:35,320 --> 02:17:38,760
Speaker 2: groceries for it, like you just don't know, but there's

2514
02:17:38,840 --> 02:17:42,400
Speaker 2: there's no barriers to him owning this. Yeah, we still

2515
02:17:42,440 --> 02:17:44,800
Speaker 2: don't know very much about this guy outside of his

2516
02:17:44,920 --> 02:17:47,640
Speaker 2: like public arrest record. I have like a LinkedIn that

2517
02:17:47,760 --> 02:17:50,720
Speaker 2: hasn't been updated in a few years. Yeah, he voted

2518
02:17:50,760 --> 02:17:54,400
Speaker 2: in the twenty twenty Democratic primary. We know that from

2519
02:17:54,800 --> 02:17:58,440
Speaker 2: Texas voting records. His mom's Facebook has a few political sentiments,

2520
02:17:58,480 --> 02:18:01,879
Speaker 2: but not expressed very commonly. She's posted a few times

2521
02:18:01,879 --> 02:18:06,320
Speaker 2: about Greg Abbot's pro gun stances. Yeah, she was definitely

2522
02:18:06,440 --> 02:18:08,720
Speaker 2: like anti NRA, anti.

2523
02:18:08,440 --> 02:18:13,960
Speaker 8: Abbot, anti NRA, upset about Abbot and a Senator Korn

2524
02:18:14,600 --> 02:18:18,039
Speaker 8: and Cruise not taking action for gun control.

2525
02:18:18,800 --> 02:18:23,960
Speaker 4: Damp. Yeah, this isn't the sort of gun that would

2526
02:18:24,000 --> 02:18:28,560
Speaker 4: ever be impacted by now proposed gun control legislation, right, Like,

2527
02:18:28,680 --> 02:18:31,400
Speaker 4: this is kind of central to the gun that people

2528
02:18:31,480 --> 02:18:34,400
Speaker 4: generally fail is reasonable to people to own.

2529
02:18:34,800 --> 02:18:37,400
Speaker 2: Yes, assuming that it was something that he inherited from

2530
02:18:37,400 --> 02:18:41,000
Speaker 2: a grandfather, a great grandfather. Even like gun control bills

2531
02:18:41,040 --> 02:18:44,279
Speaker 2: that are looking at stopping face to face sales wouldn't

2532
02:18:44,320 --> 02:18:46,920
Speaker 2: stop this because the dims always tend to include an

2533
02:18:46,920 --> 02:18:49,440
Speaker 2: exception for like, yeah, inheriting your dad's hunting rifle or

2534
02:18:49,480 --> 02:18:49,920
Speaker 2: something like that.

2535
02:18:50,200 --> 02:18:54,720
Speaker 8: Right, Yeah, On an old Google Plus profile that's cashed deep,

2536
02:18:55,160 --> 02:19:01,720
Speaker 8: his profile picture is like a Soviet communist caricature. But again,

2537
02:19:01,800 --> 02:19:05,560
Speaker 8: that is no indication of a recent political alignment. We

2538
02:19:05,640 --> 02:19:08,640
Speaker 8: still don't have a detailed look at this guy's politics.

2539
02:19:09,440 --> 02:19:12,080
Speaker 8: But people have been quick to call this a false

2540
02:19:12,120 --> 02:19:16,320
Speaker 8: flag when I think this appears more like in the

2541
02:19:16,400 --> 02:19:19,840
Speaker 8: manifestation of this reality brain rottedness that we've talked about

2542
02:19:20,320 --> 02:19:23,600
Speaker 8: vis a vis the years of lead paint, like brain

2543
02:19:23,720 --> 02:19:27,720
Speaker 8: rot inspires like ill thought or logical actions that maybe

2544
02:19:28,240 --> 02:19:31,520
Speaker 8: appear akin to a half baked false flag. But this

2545
02:19:31,640 --> 02:19:33,920
Speaker 8: is like just a result of this weaponized on reality

2546
02:19:34,200 --> 02:19:37,440
Speaker 8: fiction inspires reality, and then reality is seen through the

2547
02:19:37,560 --> 02:19:41,160
Speaker 8: lens of fiction, so people project onto the state this

2548
02:19:41,440 --> 02:19:45,880
Speaker 8: like nineteen fifty Cia staging world events. Thing, like everything's

2549
02:19:45,879 --> 02:19:47,600
Speaker 8: become so like Eddington pilled.

2550
02:19:48,120 --> 02:19:50,039
Speaker 10: Yeah, I remember there was there was a really big

2551
02:19:50,080 --> 02:19:52,800
Speaker 10: example of this someone I forget exactly what it was,

2552
02:19:53,040 --> 02:19:59,000
Speaker 10: like someone like graffitied like Chuck Schumer's garage or something,

2553
02:19:59,400 --> 02:20:01,960
Speaker 10: and everyone that I knew was confessed it was a

2554
02:20:02,000 --> 02:20:04,760
Speaker 10: false flag, like if all over Twitter's Olver Blues, everyone

2555
02:20:04,800 --> 02:20:06,080
Speaker 10: thought it was a false flag. And it's just like

2556
02:20:06,640 --> 02:20:11,040
Speaker 10: all of that has just accelerated alongside this process that

2557
02:20:11,080 --> 02:20:14,080
Speaker 10: you'reson you're describing, where you have the unreality tunnel of

2558
02:20:14,160 --> 02:20:15,440
Speaker 10: all this is a false flag. Then you have the

2559
02:20:15,480 --> 02:20:17,880
Speaker 10: other unreality tunnels that are like generating these people, and

2560
02:20:17,879 --> 02:20:20,160
Speaker 10: they're just sort of like, yeah, flowing parallel to each other,

2561
02:20:20,280 --> 02:20:21,640
Speaker 10: nashing into each other. Yeah.

2562
02:20:22,720 --> 02:20:24,760
Speaker 8: No, Like people are so quick just to point the

2563
02:20:24,800 --> 02:20:27,959
Speaker 8: Black's rule image, to discount every single thing that might

2564
02:20:28,680 --> 02:20:32,320
Speaker 8: confuse you at first glance, Like if you cannot understand

2565
02:20:32,440 --> 02:20:35,400
Speaker 8: that someone who is suicidal would do a crazy thing

2566
02:20:35,520 --> 02:20:39,360
Speaker 8: like this inspired by recent events and scribble something onto

2567
02:20:39,480 --> 02:20:43,640
Speaker 8: a bullet trying to shoot at ICE equipment or ICE

2568
02:20:44,080 --> 02:20:49,840
Speaker 8: agents ice property inadvertently killing actual ICE detainees. If you

2569
02:20:50,000 --> 02:20:51,560
Speaker 8: have no way to understand that as a premise, and

2570
02:20:51,640 --> 02:20:53,360
Speaker 8: the only way that you can see something like this

2571
02:20:53,440 --> 02:20:55,760
Speaker 8: is happening is like a beat cop walking up to

2572
02:20:55,840 --> 02:20:58,040
Speaker 8: the crime scene realizing he has to alter it to

2573
02:20:58,120 --> 02:21:01,199
Speaker 8: fit an agenda. Like that is a way more disjointed

2574
02:21:01,240 --> 02:21:04,120
Speaker 8: and like broken reality to like force yourself to believe

2575
02:21:04,400 --> 02:21:07,279
Speaker 8: than just take the facts as they come and evaluate

2576
02:21:07,360 --> 02:21:10,080
Speaker 8: them slowly without jumping to a very quick assumption that

2577
02:21:10,160 --> 02:21:13,600
Speaker 8: satisfies your like emotional reaction to a tragic event like

2578
02:21:13,680 --> 02:21:18,480
Speaker 8: this where multiple people have died. With Trump in power again,

2579
02:21:18,560 --> 02:21:22,640
Speaker 8: I think it's entirely possible that oppositional political violence will

2580
02:21:22,680 --> 02:21:27,039
Speaker 8: take a form that resembles quote unquote left wing attacks

2581
02:21:27,560 --> 02:21:32,200
Speaker 8: increasingly through the next few years. It's not twenty eighteen anymore.

2582
02:21:32,840 --> 02:21:35,800
Speaker 8: Calling this guy a leftist right now doesn't make any sense.

2583
02:21:35,840 --> 02:21:38,400
Speaker 8: We don't have a clear look at his politics or

2584
02:21:38,480 --> 02:21:42,600
Speaker 8: if he really even had serious politics. But there are

2585
02:21:42,680 --> 02:21:46,920
Speaker 8: a lot of like seemingly normal people who are depressed, demoralized,

2586
02:21:47,040 --> 02:21:50,960
Speaker 8: or angry and might not write a stupid twitter brained

2587
02:21:51,080 --> 02:21:55,200
Speaker 8: manifesto and scribbling anti ICE gets a point across, whether

2588
02:21:55,280 --> 02:21:59,640
Speaker 8: that's sincere or some kind of ironic ship post if

2589
02:22:00,120 --> 02:22:03,760
Speaker 8: the ICE sounds weird in comparison to fuck ice or

2590
02:22:03,800 --> 02:22:06,600
Speaker 8: abolish Ice. Again, not everyone is part of like the

2591
02:22:06,760 --> 02:22:11,360
Speaker 8: leftist twitter brained terminology circle. It seems like he wasn't

2592
02:22:11,440 --> 02:22:15,520
Speaker 8: really thinking things through intently anyway, as is common with

2593
02:22:15,640 --> 02:22:19,640
Speaker 8: these like quick copycat style attacks and attacks like this

2594
02:22:19,760 --> 02:22:24,080
Speaker 8: are also sometimes just harshly driven by suicide wanting to

2595
02:22:24,560 --> 02:22:28,720
Speaker 8: do something as a part of the suicidal act, And like,

2596
02:22:28,840 --> 02:22:32,080
Speaker 8: who knows what this shooter was aiming for or what

2597
02:22:32,320 --> 02:22:34,840
Speaker 8: they thought they were aiming for. We do not have

2598
02:22:35,080 --> 02:22:37,039
Speaker 8: enough information yet, And.

2599
02:22:37,200 --> 02:22:41,400
Speaker 2: It's worth noting NBC has interviewed his brother. Kind of

2600
02:22:41,480 --> 02:22:44,080
Speaker 2: sounds like from the text of the NBC article like

2601
02:22:44,200 --> 02:22:47,520
Speaker 2: they broke the news to him, which is oof, that's

2602
02:22:47,560 --> 02:22:51,240
Speaker 2: fucked up, not great. Yeah, but he said the last

2603
02:22:51,240 --> 02:22:53,240
Speaker 2: time he'd seen his brothers two weeks ago, he was

2604
02:22:53,320 --> 02:22:56,520
Speaker 2: not particularly political. He had never mentioned anything about ICE.

2605
02:22:56,600 --> 02:22:58,520
Speaker 2: As far as his brother knew, he had no hatred

2606
02:22:58,879 --> 02:23:02,160
Speaker 2: or particular feelings Ice either way. He was registered as

2607
02:23:02,200 --> 02:23:05,120
Speaker 2: political independent. His brother said that his parents had a

2608
02:23:05,240 --> 02:23:07,440
Speaker 2: rifle and that he knew that his brother knew how

2609
02:23:07,480 --> 02:23:09,920
Speaker 2: to shoot it, but that he didn't think he knew

2610
02:23:09,920 --> 02:23:12,160
Speaker 2: how to make a shot like that. I don't think

2611
02:23:12,200 --> 02:23:14,480
Speaker 2: he knew anything about the quality of shot. And it

2612
02:23:14,520 --> 02:23:16,400
Speaker 2: doesn't sound like he did anything but shoot into a

2613
02:23:16,480 --> 02:23:20,720
Speaker 2: van and then kill himself. So he was recently unemployed

2614
02:23:20,760 --> 02:23:23,760
Speaker 2: and was looking to move to his parents' land in Oklahoma,

2615
02:23:24,240 --> 02:23:27,520
Speaker 2: but he was raised in Allan. The whole unemployed didn't

2616
02:23:27,520 --> 02:23:29,160
Speaker 2: sound like he felt like he had a lot of

2617
02:23:29,560 --> 02:23:33,240
Speaker 2: maybe opportunity going forward. His life was not going great,

2618
02:23:33,560 --> 02:23:37,800
Speaker 2: like I don't know, like I'm not having trouble seeing

2619
02:23:37,959 --> 02:23:39,520
Speaker 2: this all add up now.

2620
02:23:39,640 --> 02:23:42,640
Speaker 8: I mean, the people who do some crazy hit like

2621
02:23:42,720 --> 02:23:46,440
Speaker 8: this often have a suicidal impulse running through an action

2622
02:23:46,600 --> 02:23:49,240
Speaker 8: like this, and sometimes his manifests were something akin to

2623
02:23:49,360 --> 02:23:51,000
Speaker 8: like you know, this is like a bad term, but

2624
02:23:51,080 --> 02:23:54,320
Speaker 8: like suicide by cop right, and like similar to what

2625
02:23:54,440 --> 02:23:57,160
Speaker 8: Roberts said about like mimetic and like copycat shootings. You

2626
02:23:57,240 --> 02:23:59,480
Speaker 8: can see some of what's on display here in the

2627
02:23:59,560 --> 02:24:04,160
Speaker 8: lineage of Luigi Mangioni allegedly writing denying to pose on

2628
02:24:04,360 --> 02:24:08,440
Speaker 8: bullets than the Charlie kirkshooting with stuff for non bullets. Yeah,

2629
02:24:08,520 --> 02:24:10,320
Speaker 8: but this is something that's not like in our Zeitgei.

2630
02:24:10,360 --> 02:24:12,199
Speaker 8: So it doesn't require you to be like an online

2631
02:24:12,240 --> 02:24:15,359
Speaker 8: communist to do something like this, nor is it relegated

2632
02:24:15,480 --> 02:24:19,680
Speaker 8: to a cop trying to manufacture a fake narrative to

2633
02:24:19,760 --> 02:24:23,960
Speaker 8: cover up a murder of immigrants to frame it in

2634
02:24:24,080 --> 02:24:28,000
Speaker 8: this left wing violence spike that the right is currently

2635
02:24:28,400 --> 02:24:29,080
Speaker 8: really running with.

2636
02:24:29,600 --> 02:24:32,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, look, folks, if you are convinced that this is

2637
02:24:32,760 --> 02:24:35,600
Speaker 2: a conspiracy, I really doubt much that we say is

2638
02:24:35,680 --> 02:24:39,760
Speaker 2: going to convince you. Otherwise. It's kind of a I

2639
02:24:39,800 --> 02:24:41,760
Speaker 2: don't want to go on too bleak of a rantier,

2640
02:24:41,920 --> 02:24:44,840
Speaker 2: but like I almost feel like there's not really a

2641
02:24:44,959 --> 02:24:48,720
Speaker 2: point in trying to stand up for basic reality anymore,

2642
02:24:48,760 --> 02:24:52,560
Speaker 2: because number one, people are increasingly going to dig into

2643
02:24:52,600 --> 02:24:55,360
Speaker 2: the reality tunnel that's most comforting to them, and that's

2644
02:24:55,400 --> 02:24:57,680
Speaker 2: going to be the one where, like they don't have

2645
02:24:57,879 --> 02:25:00,360
Speaker 2: to deal with the complexities of the world. That like,

2646
02:25:00,520 --> 02:25:04,360
Speaker 2: some people who on paper have espoused beliefs that are

2647
02:25:04,600 --> 02:25:07,760
Speaker 2: similar to you will also do fucked up shit right

2648
02:25:08,440 --> 02:25:11,640
Speaker 2: like that, that's just America. That's living in a country

2649
02:25:11,640 --> 02:25:13,720
Speaker 2: with four hundred million guns. That's living in a country

2650
02:25:13,760 --> 02:25:17,720
Speaker 2: where mass shootings go viral and where people act based

2651
02:25:17,760 --> 02:25:20,760
Speaker 2: off the virality of shootings that they watch or see

2652
02:25:20,920 --> 02:25:24,720
Speaker 2: or hear about. Yeah, and honestly, like, there's a part

2653
02:25:24,760 --> 02:25:27,400
Speaker 2: of me that feels like caring about the reality of

2654
02:25:27,440 --> 02:25:30,200
Speaker 2: the situation is almost a vanity project that like, it

2655
02:25:30,240 --> 02:25:32,680
Speaker 2: doesn't win you anything. Yeah, it doesn't get you anywhere,

2656
02:25:33,040 --> 02:25:36,160
Speaker 2: it doesn't help you make the world better. Maybe just

2657
02:25:36,800 --> 02:25:39,600
Speaker 2: embracing a fall Like the right has gotten very far

2658
02:25:39,760 --> 02:25:43,600
Speaker 2: in embracing completely fraudulent realities, So why do I even care?

2659
02:25:43,840 --> 02:25:45,400
Speaker 8: I mean, this is something I've talked about with like

2660
02:25:45,440 --> 02:25:48,640
Speaker 8: the flattening of tactics, with the right adopting state sponsored

2661
02:25:48,720 --> 02:25:51,880
Speaker 8: cancel culture and the left getting more conspiratorial in like

2662
02:25:52,000 --> 02:25:55,440
Speaker 8: replies to tweet some Blue Sky posts talking about how

2663
02:25:55,600 --> 02:25:58,240
Speaker 8: you know, the bulleting markings have to be a false flag.

2664
02:25:58,400 --> 02:26:02,600
Speaker 8: I'm seeing people share memes like Pepe like psyop memes,

2665
02:26:03,120 --> 02:26:05,080
Speaker 8: but like like leftists and like like oh wow, yeah,

2666
02:26:05,160 --> 02:26:08,400
Speaker 8: liberals sharing these memes that you used to just see

2667
02:26:08,520 --> 02:26:11,320
Speaker 8: under like unhinged right wing accounts to talk about how

2668
02:26:11,680 --> 02:26:13,760
Speaker 8: big world events are all stage or the Feds are

2669
02:26:13,800 --> 02:26:18,200
Speaker 8: faking everything, and it's it's just this complete like swap

2670
02:26:18,720 --> 02:26:21,880
Speaker 8: more accurately a flattening of tactics, and yeah, like it.

2671
02:26:22,080 --> 02:26:22,120
Speaker 4: It.

2672
02:26:22,800 --> 02:26:24,680
Speaker 8: It sucks to be in a position where I'm trying

2673
02:26:24,760 --> 02:26:27,280
Speaker 8: to be like slow and methodical and how I evaluate

2674
02:26:27,400 --> 02:26:30,959
Speaker 8: things and not just jump to posting funny reaction images

2675
02:26:31,040 --> 02:26:33,400
Speaker 8: about how everything is a syop and how everything is

2676
02:26:33,440 --> 02:26:34,000
Speaker 8: a false.

2677
02:26:33,800 --> 02:26:36,480
Speaker 2: Flag lameo obvious psyop work done.

2678
02:26:36,920 --> 02:26:41,160
Speaker 8: Because that seems so much more emotionally compelling, and instead

2679
02:26:41,200 --> 02:26:41,920
Speaker 8: I'm just tired.

2680
02:26:42,440 --> 02:26:45,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, just tired all the time. Anyway, go on and

2681
02:26:45,840 --> 02:26:48,640
Speaker 2: believe whatever you want. Let's continue the episode, all right,

2682
02:26:49,240 --> 02:26:51,120
Speaker 2: Let's talk about Antifa when we come back.

2683
02:26:51,240 --> 02:26:52,959
Speaker 4: It comes from a mind control.

2684
02:26:52,760 --> 02:26:53,080
Speaker 6: Pond, this.

2685
02:27:07,120 --> 02:27:10,920
Speaker 10: Speaking of false flags and Tiffa Antifa.

2686
02:27:11,120 --> 02:27:14,920
Speaker 2: I hardly No, that doesn't Garrison, just continue.

2687
02:27:15,879 --> 02:27:17,320
Speaker 10: I don't have anything to say about that.

2688
02:27:17,480 --> 02:27:19,880
Speaker 2: All right, listen, folks, We're going to be doing what

2689
02:27:20,040 --> 02:27:22,760
Speaker 2: James is going to be doing with our collective lawyer

2690
02:27:22,920 --> 02:27:27,520
Speaker 2: Moira Meltzer Cohen, an episode on what this actually means legally,

2691
02:27:27,680 --> 02:27:29,520
Speaker 2: and we will be doing that with a lawyer who

2692
02:27:29,600 --> 02:27:32,280
Speaker 2: is competent to speak on that more than we are. Yeah,

2693
02:27:32,520 --> 02:27:34,440
Speaker 2: I guess kind of what we want to do briefly

2694
02:27:34,520 --> 02:27:37,440
Speaker 2: in this episode is try and pull people back from

2695
02:27:37,640 --> 02:27:40,560
Speaker 2: a ledge if you're feeling like you're on one right now,

2696
02:27:41,200 --> 02:27:44,320
Speaker 2: because it's bad. The current situation is bad. The administration

2697
02:27:44,440 --> 02:27:47,039
Speaker 2: is absolutely going after people on the left. They absolutely

2698
02:27:47,080 --> 02:27:51,080
Speaker 2: will be increasingly applying terrorism enhancements to charges for anything

2699
02:27:51,120 --> 02:27:53,800
Speaker 2: that can be deemed as politically motivated by the left.

2700
02:27:54,440 --> 02:27:57,200
Speaker 2: But this declaration, as people pointed out, it's not like

2701
02:27:57,280 --> 02:28:00,600
Speaker 2: a thing the president declaring something a domestic terrorist group. Like,

2702
02:28:00,720 --> 02:28:03,280
Speaker 2: it's not like none of this is anything that like

2703
02:28:03,840 --> 02:28:06,199
Speaker 2: has a legal force behind it, Which doesn't mean again

2704
02:28:06,280 --> 02:28:08,720
Speaker 2: that they're not going to continue to go after people,

2705
02:28:09,000 --> 02:28:11,199
Speaker 2: But this is stuff that started under the Biden administration,

2706
02:28:11,280 --> 02:28:13,160
Speaker 2: applying RICO charges and whatnot.

2707
02:28:13,400 --> 02:28:15,600
Speaker 8: This is stuff that goes back to the nineties, like

2708
02:28:15,959 --> 02:28:20,279
Speaker 8: right to scare, yeah right, yeah, with with environmental organizations.

2709
02:28:20,520 --> 02:28:24,160
Speaker 8: There is no real domestic terrorism designation. That's why they're

2710
02:28:24,160 --> 02:28:26,600
Speaker 8: trying to go after like funders and trying to find

2711
02:28:26,720 --> 02:28:30,600
Speaker 8: ties to like international groups to have that terrorism like

2712
02:28:30,760 --> 02:28:34,640
Speaker 8: label make more legal sense. But Trump did actually sign

2713
02:28:34,720 --> 02:28:38,240
Speaker 8: an executive order to quote unquote designate Antifa as a

2714
02:28:38,320 --> 02:28:39,440
Speaker 8: domestic terrorist organization.

2715
02:28:40,240 --> 02:28:40,560
Speaker 6: Quote.

2716
02:28:40,800 --> 02:28:43,720
Speaker 8: All relevant Executive Departments and agencies shall utilize all applicable

2717
02:28:43,720 --> 02:28:47,960
Speaker 8: authorities to investigate, disrupt, and dismantle any and all illegal operations,

2718
02:28:48,080 --> 02:28:52,520
Speaker 8: especially those involving terrorist actions conducted by Antifa or any

2719
02:28:52,560 --> 02:28:55,400
Speaker 8: person claiming to act on behalf of Antifa, or for

2720
02:28:55,520 --> 02:28:58,440
Speaker 8: which Antifa or any person claiming to act on behalf

2721
02:28:58,440 --> 02:29:03,240
Speaker 8: of Antifa provided materials support, including necessary investigatory and prosecutoral

2722
02:29:03,320 --> 02:29:05,760
Speaker 8: actions against those who fund such operations.

2723
02:29:07,920 --> 02:29:11,480
Speaker 4: I mean, like anything in the United States, if you're

2724
02:29:11,520 --> 02:29:15,199
Speaker 4: going to be prosecuted for a federal crime, the US

2725
02:29:15,280 --> 02:29:17,640
Speaker 4: Attorney has to bring a case against you, and there

2726
02:29:17,680 --> 02:29:21,800
Speaker 4: has to be a crime that you have committed. The

2727
02:29:21,959 --> 02:29:27,039
Speaker 4: executive branch does not make law, but legislative branch makes law.

2728
02:29:27,200 --> 02:29:29,920
Speaker 4: They try, and they tried a lot last time as well.

2729
02:29:31,120 --> 02:29:33,280
Speaker 4: I do want to remind everyone that right now we

2730
02:29:33,400 --> 02:29:36,600
Speaker 4: still have courts, and as we're seeing in Los Angeles

2731
02:29:36,680 --> 02:29:40,480
Speaker 4: and in other places, grand juries are not returning indictments.

2732
02:29:41,040 --> 02:29:45,080
Speaker 4: When the a USA brings a shoddy case or tries

2733
02:29:45,120 --> 02:29:47,800
Speaker 4: to proscute some of something that isn't a crime, that

2734
02:29:48,320 --> 02:29:50,560
Speaker 4: right now is the case. I'm not saying it will

2735
02:29:50,640 --> 02:29:53,240
Speaker 4: be forever. I'm saying that that's where we're at, and

2736
02:29:53,400 --> 02:29:57,000
Speaker 4: we can take a step back from the ledge if

2737
02:29:57,040 --> 02:29:59,879
Speaker 4: we know that I hope for people who are understandably

2738
02:30:00,280 --> 02:30:00,840
Speaker 4: very afraid.

2739
02:30:01,640 --> 02:30:05,640
Speaker 2: Yes, And I'm not saying don't be afraid because these

2740
02:30:05,680 --> 02:30:09,760
Speaker 2: are scary times. I'm just saying, like, don't assume that

2741
02:30:10,280 --> 02:30:13,119
Speaker 2: there's no point to fighting back, or there's no way

2742
02:30:13,200 --> 02:30:15,040
Speaker 2: to do so that you'll just like wind up in

2743
02:30:15,120 --> 02:30:18,280
Speaker 2: a fucking camp because people are going to court right

2744
02:30:18,400 --> 02:30:22,560
Speaker 2: now and winning yea, and those court cases have not

2745
02:30:22,640 --> 02:30:25,880
Speaker 2: been invalidated by the administration that they're not just taking

2746
02:30:25,920 --> 02:30:29,680
Speaker 2: people into custody anyway, Like people have repeatedly gotten off

2747
02:30:29,840 --> 02:30:34,320
Speaker 2: for charges of assaulting ice officers because they were bullshit charges, right, Yeah,

2748
02:30:34,560 --> 02:30:36,880
Speaker 2: So that's all I'm trying to say right now.

2749
02:30:37,879 --> 02:30:40,280
Speaker 10: Yeah, you know, in terms of what these people are

2750
02:30:40,280 --> 02:30:42,680
Speaker 10: actually worried about, I think if you read the executive order,

2751
02:30:42,720 --> 02:30:46,400
Speaker 10: you can see what they're scared of, right, you know,

2752
02:30:46,520 --> 02:30:49,119
Speaker 10: to do the mildly cringe and or a quote authority

2753
02:30:49,240 --> 02:30:57,400
Speaker 10: is Brital, oppression is the mask of fear God, to plade,

2754
02:30:57,600 --> 02:31:01,960
Speaker 10: stole is stealing my shit, pricks are holding hands, meme

2755
02:31:02,560 --> 02:31:03,000
Speaker 10: coating and.

2756
02:31:03,160 --> 02:31:04,800
Speaker 2: Or apparently is a big Star Wars guy.

2757
02:31:05,400 --> 02:31:09,160
Speaker 10: But if you look at like what's actually in there, right, Like, Okay,

2758
02:31:09,200 --> 02:31:11,480
Speaker 10: I mean, some of it's like obviously twenty twenty stuff,

2759
02:31:11,480 --> 02:31:13,560
Speaker 10: and then they're talking about like violent assaults on immigration

2760
02:31:13,640 --> 02:31:17,960
Speaker 10: and Customs enforcement and other law enforcement officials in routine dosing,

2761
02:31:18,160 --> 02:31:20,279
Speaker 10: and other threats against public figures and activists.

2762
02:31:20,680 --> 02:31:20,720
Speaker 13: Like.

2763
02:31:21,040 --> 02:31:23,880
Speaker 10: They are very worried about the fact that everywhere ICE

2764
02:31:23,959 --> 02:31:26,880
Speaker 10: appears a whole bunch of people, most of who are

2765
02:31:27,040 --> 02:31:30,320
Speaker 10: just like random people in sweatpants. I have seen so

2766
02:31:30,400 --> 02:31:33,160
Speaker 10: many pictures from every single city that there's like loscual

2767
02:31:33,200 --> 02:31:35,120
Speaker 10: ice deployments are there's just like people in sweatpants who

2768
02:31:35,200 --> 02:31:36,720
Speaker 10: just like walk out of their houses and start taking

2769
02:31:36,760 --> 02:31:40,760
Speaker 10: pictures of ICE agents. They are very much concerned about this, right,

2770
02:31:41,120 --> 02:31:43,000
Speaker 10: This is why they're trying to do this crackdown because

2771
02:31:43,160 --> 02:31:47,240
Speaker 10: the resistance to this stuff is actually working well enough.

2772
02:31:47,360 --> 02:31:49,560
Speaker 10: You know, it's not not that they haven't been able

2773
02:31:49,600 --> 02:31:51,920
Speaker 10: to do ICE raids, but it has degraded their capacity

2774
02:31:52,000 --> 02:31:55,440
Speaker 10: to do it significantly. And that's why they're rolling this

2775
02:31:55,480 --> 02:31:57,800
Speaker 10: shit out so that they can, you know, as an

2776
02:31:57,840 --> 02:32:02,080
Speaker 10: attempt to intimidate people and as attempt to like get

2777
02:32:02,160 --> 02:32:04,760
Speaker 10: people to stop doing the stuff that they've been doing,

2778
02:32:04,840 --> 02:32:10,000
Speaker 10: which has been like effective enough to really shift the

2779
02:32:10,040 --> 02:32:11,600
Speaker 10: way ICE has been forced to do these things.

2780
02:32:11,840 --> 02:32:15,360
Speaker 4: And yeah, yeah, Like if you go back to the

2781
02:32:15,760 --> 02:32:18,280
Speaker 4: like one of the first incidents of people like imposing

2782
02:32:18,320 --> 02:32:21,000
Speaker 4: an ice rad it was in South Park in San Diego. Right,

2783
02:32:21,480 --> 02:32:24,760
Speaker 4: These people are not like like organized members of Antifa.

2784
02:32:24,920 --> 02:32:26,960
Speaker 4: Like South Park is a pretty bougey place. It's like

2785
02:32:27,520 --> 02:32:30,960
Speaker 4: a vegan, small plates restaurant and cocktail place. There're people

2786
02:32:31,000 --> 02:32:33,520
Speaker 4: who are pissed that their neighbors are getting abducted. Yeah,

2787
02:32:34,400 --> 02:32:36,400
Speaker 4: they're just people who were there and were like, no,

2788
02:32:36,520 --> 02:32:37,680
Speaker 4: fuck you, this seems wrong.

2789
02:32:38,160 --> 02:32:38,360
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2790
02:32:38,959 --> 02:32:40,720
Speaker 10: Yeah, And again, like we talked about this last week,

2791
02:32:40,800 --> 02:32:43,760
Speaker 10: like this is happening in Wheaton, Like people in evangelical

2792
02:32:43,879 --> 02:32:47,840
Speaker 10: college towns are or seeing ice trucks roll up and

2793
02:32:48,040 --> 02:32:51,720
Speaker 10: like just walking over to them and yelling at them

2794
02:32:51,800 --> 02:32:54,600
Speaker 10: and filming them, and that sometimes is enough to make

2795
02:32:54,640 --> 02:32:58,280
Speaker 10: them just run away. And that's what this is. You know,

2796
02:32:58,440 --> 02:33:01,480
Speaker 10: they're terrified of the fact that they live in an

2797
02:33:01,640 --> 02:33:04,480
Speaker 10: entire country of people who don't like that you're dragging

2798
02:33:04,480 --> 02:33:07,080
Speaker 10: their neighbors away at gunpoint, and that's a sign to

2799
02:33:07,640 --> 02:33:10,360
Speaker 10: do more and not you know, sort of given to

2800
02:33:10,440 --> 02:33:13,800
Speaker 10: fear every time there's some executive order bullshit.

2801
02:33:13,520 --> 02:33:19,400
Speaker 4: That happens yep, talking about things where the regime has

2802
02:33:19,480 --> 02:33:21,880
Speaker 4: not been as successful as it wanted to. Right, Let's

2803
02:33:21,879 --> 02:33:24,840
Speaker 4: talk about the case of the Guatemalan children. We spoke

2804
02:33:24,840 --> 02:33:28,160
Speaker 4: about this on ED I think last week potentially the

2805
02:33:28,200 --> 02:33:28,680
Speaker 4: week before.

2806
02:33:28,760 --> 02:33:28,880
Speaker 6: Right.

2807
02:33:28,959 --> 02:33:31,840
Speaker 4: These were the kids who were grabbed from their beds

2808
02:33:31,959 --> 02:33:34,760
Speaker 4: of a labored eight weekend, and in that time Judge

2809
02:33:34,760 --> 02:33:39,520
Speaker 4: Sparkle Supernanan thesued an emergency protective order. But we've now

2810
02:33:39,720 --> 02:33:42,480
Speaker 4: seen a class action which would bring a more permanent

2811
02:33:42,560 --> 02:33:47,440
Speaker 4: protective order for these children. Judge Timothy Kelly, I'm going

2812
02:33:47,520 --> 02:33:50,160
Speaker 4: to quote him here. He was talking about the government's

2813
02:33:50,200 --> 02:33:52,440
Speaker 4: case and he said it had quote crumbled like a

2814
02:33:52,640 --> 02:33:56,840
Speaker 4: house of cards. This is in part because a whistleblower's

2815
02:33:56,840 --> 02:34:00,200
Speaker 4: account contradicted the government's claim, and this claim was made

2816
02:34:00,240 --> 02:34:04,080
Speaker 4: by Acting Director of the Office of Refugee Resettlement, Angi Salazar.

2817
02:34:04,760 --> 02:34:06,879
Speaker 4: Salazar said under oath that the children have VIEN screen

2818
02:34:06,920 --> 02:34:09,200
Speaker 4: to ensure they would not be subject to abuse on neglect.

2819
02:34:09,720 --> 02:34:12,440
Speaker 4: The whistlebows claimed that at least thirty of these children

2820
02:34:12,560 --> 02:34:17,680
Speaker 4: had been deemed ineligible for return because they have indicators

2821
02:34:17,720 --> 02:34:22,280
Speaker 4: of being victimized by child abusers before, so returning them

2822
02:34:22,280 --> 02:34:24,880
Speaker 4: would obviously return them to that situation of abuse or

2823
02:34:24,920 --> 02:34:28,640
Speaker 4: potentially do so. Right. The whistleblowers further stated that this

2824
02:34:28,800 --> 02:34:32,359
Speaker 4: was in an OORR database Office of Refugee Resettlement database

2825
02:34:33,080 --> 02:34:36,240
Speaker 4: and such that the acting director would have access to

2826
02:34:36,320 --> 02:34:36,920
Speaker 4: that information.

2827
02:34:37,440 --> 02:34:37,560
Speaker 6: Right.

2828
02:34:38,400 --> 02:34:41,160
Speaker 4: They printed a lot of other evidence to Judge Kelly,

2829
02:34:41,280 --> 02:34:44,000
Speaker 4: who granted protection to the children in the case, and

2830
02:34:44,280 --> 02:34:48,040
Speaker 4: to quote all un accompanied Guatemalan children who have received

2831
02:34:48,120 --> 02:34:50,720
Speaker 4: neither a final removal order nor permission from the Attorney

2832
02:34:50,760 --> 02:34:54,600
Speaker 4: General to voluntarily depart the United States. So, if you remember,

2833
02:34:54,800 --> 02:34:57,480
Speaker 4: the government had previously said that they were resettling these

2834
02:34:57,560 --> 02:35:00,440
Speaker 4: children and that the DHS had to do with it,

2835
02:35:00,520 --> 02:35:03,520
Speaker 4: that it was an Office of Refugee Resettlement operation, right,

2836
02:35:03,720 --> 02:35:06,720
Speaker 4: and that their families wanted them home and the families

2837
02:35:06,760 --> 02:35:07,520
Speaker 4: didn't want them home.

2838
02:35:07,680 --> 02:35:07,800
Speaker 6: Right.

2839
02:35:08,240 --> 02:35:11,320
Speaker 4: They dropped that claim later, So this is a whim right.

2840
02:35:11,360 --> 02:35:13,360
Speaker 4: They couldn't take these little children away in the night

2841
02:35:13,800 --> 02:35:15,840
Speaker 4: and spirit them off to somewhere where they would be

2842
02:35:15,920 --> 02:35:21,040
Speaker 4: in danger. Let's move on to Executive Order number two

2843
02:35:21,640 --> 02:35:23,680
Speaker 4: for this week's episode. This is the one that you

2844
02:35:23,760 --> 02:35:26,600
Speaker 4: probably heard less about than the Antifa one, But this

2845
02:35:26,840 --> 02:35:32,400
Speaker 4: is the quote unquote gold card executive order. Oh god, yeah,

2846
02:35:33,040 --> 02:35:35,840
Speaker 4: it's a gold card. Trump has been true thing about this, right,

2847
02:35:35,920 --> 02:35:38,840
Speaker 4: He truced about it in June. Also in June, Howard

2848
02:35:38,920 --> 02:35:42,520
Speaker 4: Lutnik announced that they were already seventy thousand people waiting

2849
02:35:42,959 --> 02:35:46,320
Speaker 4: for these gold cards. Applications could be made at Trump

2850
02:35:46,440 --> 02:35:51,440
Speaker 4: card dot Gov. That the original stated price was five million.

2851
02:35:51,800 --> 02:35:55,400
Speaker 4: The executive order signed this week slashed the cost to

2852
02:35:55,800 --> 02:35:59,680
Speaker 4: just one million US dollars one million, one million, and

2853
02:35:59,720 --> 02:36:03,960
Speaker 4: their dollars, and as our currency continues to crush it,

2854
02:36:04,480 --> 02:36:06,800
Speaker 4: that will only get more affordable for folks elsewhere in

2855
02:36:06,840 --> 02:36:11,119
Speaker 4: the world. So that's great, it's good. This is Trump's

2856
02:36:11,480 --> 02:36:16,520
Speaker 4: promise plan to sell permanent residency. Right when he first

2857
02:36:16,560 --> 02:36:19,200
Speaker 4: announced this, we kind of wondered, how's he going to

2858
02:36:19,280 --> 02:36:22,160
Speaker 4: do this statutorily? Right, How's he going to do it legally?

2859
02:36:22,640 --> 02:36:24,920
Speaker 4: When it turns out his plan is to consider the

2860
02:36:25,040 --> 02:36:28,280
Speaker 4: donation as evidence that the person is quote of exceptional

2861
02:36:28,400 --> 02:36:32,040
Speaker 4: business ability and that makes them eligible for an EB

2862
02:36:32,200 --> 02:36:32,840
Speaker 4: two visa.

2863
02:36:33,240 --> 02:36:34,000
Speaker 10: Oh my god.

2864
02:36:34,360 --> 02:36:36,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, so like you could you could have never engaged

2865
02:36:36,600 --> 02:36:38,720
Speaker 4: in business in your life, right, you could receive a

2866
02:36:38,760 --> 02:36:40,800
Speaker 4: small loan of one million dollars from your parents, sure,

2867
02:36:41,360 --> 02:36:45,120
Speaker 4: and that would allow you to get one of these.

2868
02:36:45,160 --> 02:36:47,920
Speaker 4: Now people will go through all the usual background checks, right, which,

2869
02:36:48,520 --> 02:36:50,519
Speaker 4: according to the EO, will be expedited.

2870
02:36:50,600 --> 02:36:50,720
Speaker 6: Right.

2871
02:36:50,760 --> 02:36:53,600
Speaker 4: You can't be like a Apple background bug Daddy. He's

2872
02:36:53,640 --> 02:36:57,119
Speaker 4: dead now, but you couldn't be him with a million dollars,

2873
02:36:57,240 --> 02:36:59,440
Speaker 4: right and do this. For example, I.

2874
02:36:59,560 --> 02:37:02,240
Speaker 2: Like the idea that Abubaka Albigdadi would like try to

2875
02:37:02,440 --> 02:37:04,400
Speaker 2: move to the US, but would put his real name

2876
02:37:04,560 --> 02:37:06,400
Speaker 2: and his application for.

2877
02:37:08,320 --> 02:37:08,600
Speaker 6: Coming.

2878
02:37:09,360 --> 02:37:12,280
Speaker 4: You gotta check for this. Yeah, but everyone's god damaged,

2879
02:37:12,320 --> 02:37:15,000
Speaker 4: unfortunate man. He shares that name with a bad guy.

2880
02:37:14,959 --> 02:37:17,040
Speaker 2: And there's like a fifty percent chance that it would

2881
02:37:17,080 --> 02:37:18,880
Speaker 2: have gotten approved that just like no one would have

2882
02:37:19,040 --> 02:37:20,520
Speaker 2: liked would have had his name.

2883
02:37:21,200 --> 02:37:21,400
Speaker 4: Yeah.

2884
02:37:22,959 --> 02:37:26,080
Speaker 2: Well look guys, the Khalif of Isis is like fucking

2885
02:37:26,160 --> 02:37:27,160
Speaker 2: living in Brooklyn.

2886
02:37:27,560 --> 02:37:29,880
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, he's going to all those founders meetings, you know,

2887
02:37:30,000 --> 02:37:33,280
Speaker 4: with other CEOs to discuss managing a large organization.

2888
02:37:33,680 --> 02:37:35,160
Speaker 2: I'm excited for his ted doc.

2889
02:37:37,879 --> 02:37:40,560
Speaker 4: He's put its address as a tunnel in a HGS

2890
02:37:40,640 --> 02:37:45,760
Speaker 4: controlled area of Syria. No, okay, So to be clearous

2891
02:37:45,879 --> 02:37:48,840
Speaker 4: is dead. It's killed in the first Trump administration. Yes,

2892
02:37:49,360 --> 02:37:52,400
Speaker 4: a corporation donating for an individual would pay two million, right,

2893
02:37:52,480 --> 02:37:54,640
Speaker 4: so it's more expensive if a corpse doing it on

2894
02:37:54,720 --> 02:38:00,720
Speaker 4: your behalf, and the cards will supposedly be old and

2895
02:38:00,879 --> 02:38:03,920
Speaker 4: have Donald Trump's face on them, which is nice. At

2896
02:38:04,000 --> 02:38:07,959
Speaker 4: the same time, the Trump administration added one hundred thousand

2897
02:38:08,040 --> 02:38:11,720
Speaker 4: dollar bill to the H one B visa application, so

2898
02:38:12,040 --> 02:38:15,360
Speaker 4: the visa application fee. The H one B, if you're

2899
02:38:15,360 --> 02:38:19,200
Speaker 4: not familiar, is an immigration scheme for skilled non immigrant labor.

2900
02:38:19,760 --> 02:38:22,600
Speaker 4: And particularly interested in this because this was one of

2901
02:38:22,680 --> 02:38:26,720
Speaker 4: the moments that the Trump Coalition began to fracture in

2902
02:38:26,879 --> 02:38:29,720
Speaker 4: the early days of the Trump administration, Like, we saw

2903
02:38:29,840 --> 02:38:34,000
Speaker 4: the kind of tech right as exemplified by Elon Musk,

2904
02:38:34,840 --> 02:38:36,720
Speaker 4: going like, no, H one B is a good they

2905
02:38:36,760 --> 02:38:38,800
Speaker 4: allow us. They allow them to bring people to this

2906
02:38:38,879 --> 02:38:41,040
Speaker 4: country and pay them not very much and take advantage

2907
02:38:41,040 --> 02:38:42,680
Speaker 4: of their skilled labor. It's what they allowed the tech

2908
02:38:42,760 --> 02:38:45,240
Speaker 4: industry to do, right, Sure. And then we saw the

2909
02:38:45,400 --> 02:38:48,640
Speaker 4: more straight up white nationalists right being like, but those

2910
02:38:48,720 --> 02:38:51,280
Speaker 4: people aren't white, we don't want them here. And it

2911
02:38:51,400 --> 02:38:55,680
Speaker 4: seems like it is that Cadra of the the Trump

2912
02:38:55,800 --> 02:38:59,760
Speaker 4: coalition that that part of his of his ideological sort

2913
02:38:59,760 --> 02:39:02,320
Speaker 4: of port base, which has won out in this instance. Right,

2914
02:39:02,400 --> 02:39:06,880
Speaker 4: because companies cannot save money paying someone twenty grand less

2915
02:39:06,959 --> 02:39:08,680
Speaker 4: if they have to pay one hundred ges to get

2916
02:39:08,720 --> 02:39:12,440
Speaker 4: them into the country, right, Like, individuals could make that donation,

2917
02:39:12,520 --> 02:39:14,200
Speaker 4: I guess, and get the visa that way, like if

2918
02:39:14,320 --> 02:39:17,120
Speaker 4: they came from wealthy family and in another country and

2919
02:39:17,200 --> 02:39:19,039
Speaker 4: want it just desperately wanted to work in the US.

2920
02:39:19,200 --> 02:39:22,600
Speaker 4: But generally h one vs are used because employees they

2921
02:39:22,680 --> 02:39:23,520
Speaker 4: can't leave.

2922
02:39:23,680 --> 02:39:23,760
Speaker 6: Right.

2923
02:39:24,360 --> 02:39:27,080
Speaker 4: Your visa is tied to your employer, so the employment

2924
02:39:27,160 --> 02:39:29,720
Speaker 4: can be much less favorable, especially in the tech industry

2925
02:39:29,800 --> 02:39:32,640
Speaker 4: where people are always shopping and changing jobs to try

2926
02:39:32,680 --> 02:39:34,720
Speaker 4: and get a better wage, better benefits, et cetera. They

2927
02:39:34,760 --> 02:39:37,800
Speaker 4: can't do that, and so that will be coming to

2928
02:39:37,920 --> 02:39:41,800
Speaker 4: an end. Finally, I want to talk about immigration judges,

2929
02:39:41,920 --> 02:39:44,720
Speaker 4: and the Trump administration has fired even more of them.

2930
02:39:44,800 --> 02:39:48,080
Speaker 4: According to NPR, when Trump came into office, they're about

2931
02:39:48,120 --> 02:39:50,440
Speaker 4: seven hundred and thirty five of these judges. There are

2932
02:39:50,560 --> 02:39:52,640
Speaker 4: now fewer than five hundred and eighty.

2933
02:39:52,840 --> 02:39:54,039
Speaker 2: Why, oh my god.

2934
02:39:54,440 --> 02:39:56,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's quite a remarkable cut.

2935
02:39:57,040 --> 02:39:57,160
Speaker 7: Right.

2936
02:39:57,280 --> 02:39:59,200
Speaker 4: Not all of them were fired. Some of them took

2937
02:39:59,240 --> 02:40:02,080
Speaker 4: advantage of the quote unquote fork in the road offer.

2938
02:40:02,360 --> 02:40:05,720
Speaker 4: If we remember like early early Trump two point zero

2939
02:40:05,760 --> 02:40:09,240
Speaker 4: do stuff in immigration judges just so people understand, Like

2940
02:40:09,560 --> 02:40:11,400
Speaker 4: people are like what they fire a judge, how can

2941
02:40:11,400 --> 02:40:14,240
Speaker 4: they do that? Immigration judges are not part of the

2942
02:40:14,280 --> 02:40:18,040
Speaker 4: independent judiciary. They are a better way of seeing them

2943
02:40:18,080 --> 02:40:21,879
Speaker 4: would be a civil servants. Nonetheless, they have in many cases,

2944
02:40:21,920 --> 02:40:26,879
Speaker 4: I guess, worked to bring the trappings and the procedures

2945
02:40:27,280 --> 02:40:32,320
Speaker 4: of due process to the immigration world. Right, Like in

2946
02:40:32,440 --> 02:40:35,680
Speaker 4: many cases they have you know, they're not just rubber

2947
02:40:35,720 --> 02:40:38,320
Speaker 4: stamping deportation orders. Right, people do have a chance to

2948
02:40:38,400 --> 02:40:41,480
Speaker 4: make their case in front of immigration judges. And even

2949
02:40:42,040 --> 02:40:44,480
Speaker 4: in Trump two point o, people are still getting asylum

2950
02:40:44,520 --> 02:40:49,679
Speaker 4: in the United States. The courts right now are extremely

2951
02:40:49,800 --> 02:40:51,480
Speaker 4: backed up. Right, people are getting here in dates in

2952
02:40:51,520 --> 02:40:54,440
Speaker 4: twenty twenty eight. As we heard earlier this week, some

2953
02:40:54,680 --> 02:40:56,879
Speaker 4: courts I read that one court is now running at

2954
02:40:56,920 --> 02:41:01,400
Speaker 4: twenty five percent of its capacity, have twenty one judges.

2955
02:41:01,120 --> 02:41:02,320
Speaker 2: And it has five yep.

2956
02:41:03,240 --> 02:41:07,480
Speaker 4: So this means that people will be in detention for longer.

2957
02:41:07,640 --> 02:41:10,400
Speaker 10: I mean that's like kind of intentional, right, Like.

2958
02:41:11,440 --> 02:41:14,800
Speaker 4: Well, one could make that case very Yeah. The DOJ

2959
02:41:15,200 --> 02:41:19,199
Speaker 4: has reduced requirements for staffing these positions, and the Trump

2960
02:41:19,240 --> 02:41:23,760
Speaker 4: administration has authorized about six hundred jags to military lawyers

2961
02:41:24,160 --> 02:41:27,280
Speaker 4: to take on the role. I don't think they're going

2962
02:41:27,360 --> 02:41:30,320
Speaker 4: to get the rubber stamp on deportations from those people

2963
02:41:30,440 --> 02:41:30,800
Speaker 4: that they.

2964
02:41:30,800 --> 02:41:32,280
Speaker 2: Expect to get.

2965
02:41:32,720 --> 02:41:34,400
Speaker 4: It depends on it if they sort of hand pick

2966
02:41:34,480 --> 02:41:35,920
Speaker 4: those jags or they just got a bunch of people

2967
02:41:35,920 --> 02:41:38,160
Speaker 4: from the National Guard. But sure, I don't think that

2968
02:41:38,240 --> 02:41:40,400
Speaker 4: that's going to be the just like straight up deportation

2969
02:41:40,560 --> 02:41:42,519
Speaker 4: factory that some people might assume.

2970
02:41:42,240 --> 02:41:42,880
Speaker 6: It to be.

2971
02:41:43,800 --> 02:41:46,120
Speaker 4: But nonetheless, right now what we have is five hundred

2972
02:41:46,120 --> 02:41:49,400
Speaker 4: and eighty judges, tens of thousands of people in detention,

2973
02:41:49,760 --> 02:41:54,920
Speaker 4: and detention numbers and detention over crowding growing every single day,

2974
02:41:55,520 --> 02:42:00,680
Speaker 4: So that is not good. Detention facilities are at the

2975
02:42:00,720 --> 02:42:03,440
Speaker 4: best of times, and conditions are pretty awful. For I

2976
02:42:03,480 --> 02:42:06,080
Speaker 4: think i've heard right now talking of things that are

2977
02:42:06,160 --> 02:42:10,080
Speaker 4: pretty awful. Here are some products and services.

2978
02:42:23,480 --> 02:42:28,359
Speaker 2: We're back and uh, next, I think we're talking about tariffs.

2979
02:42:28,680 --> 02:42:30,760
Speaker 2: Wait a second, do y'all hear that music?

2980
02:42:31,400 --> 02:42:31,760
Speaker 4: Sorry?

2981
02:42:36,120 --> 02:42:38,280
Speaker 6: Jazz right, jazz?

2982
02:42:38,879 --> 02:42:45,800
Speaker 9: Sorry, jazz right jazz.

2983
02:42:47,920 --> 02:42:49,280
Speaker 4: Wow, we haven't had the song for a while. That

2984
02:42:49,440 --> 02:42:50,240
Speaker 4: was nice, wasn't it.

2985
02:42:50,400 --> 02:42:51,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was good.

2986
02:42:51,080 --> 02:42:52,480
Speaker 4: That was good, just like old times.

2987
02:42:52,600 --> 02:42:54,160
Speaker 2: Bring it back, just like old times.

2988
02:42:54,600 --> 02:42:57,760
Speaker 4: Several months ago, Garrison has a star alarm clock, do

2989
02:42:57,920 --> 02:42:58,480
Speaker 4: you Garrison?

2990
02:42:59,240 --> 02:42:59,280
Speaker 6: No?

2991
02:43:00,040 --> 02:43:03,160
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, good. I think that would be that would

2992
02:43:03,160 --> 02:43:05,480
Speaker 2: be too much. That would be too much. I would

2993
02:43:05,560 --> 02:43:07,040
Speaker 2: I would need we would need to interview.

2994
02:43:08,480 --> 02:43:11,039
Speaker 4: Listen if you're listening and you do stop it all.

2995
02:43:11,000 --> 02:43:12,720
Speaker 2: Right, Mia? How our tariffs be?

2996
02:43:12,879 --> 02:43:14,080
Speaker 6: Do so?

2997
02:43:14,879 --> 02:43:18,280
Speaker 10: We have some tariff news. One is that we have

2998
02:43:18,360 --> 02:43:21,640
Speaker 10: a Supreme Court date for the case over whether a

2999
02:43:21,640 --> 02:43:23,440
Speaker 10: whole bunch of the tariffs are going to be allowed

3000
02:43:23,480 --> 02:43:26,040
Speaker 10: to continue or not. That is going to be on

3001
02:43:26,120 --> 02:43:30,040
Speaker 10: November fifth. We also have something no movement, which I

3002
02:43:30,080 --> 02:43:33,800
Speaker 10: think is pretty interesting. So when last we spoke of tariffs,

3003
02:43:34,000 --> 02:43:36,440
Speaker 10: we mentioned that there were two countries that had gotten

3004
02:43:36,800 --> 02:43:43,800
Speaker 10: political tariffs on them, Brazil for arresting Volsonnaro and prosecuting

3005
02:43:43,920 --> 02:43:48,600
Speaker 10: him and India for buying oil from Russia. And there

3006
02:43:48,640 --> 02:43:50,280
Speaker 10: was a lot of speculation that these would be fairly

3007
02:43:50,360 --> 02:43:51,120
Speaker 10: quickly resolved.

3008
02:43:51,560 --> 02:43:52,240
Speaker 6: They have not been.

3009
02:43:52,440 --> 02:43:55,279
Speaker 10: They are both still into effect. This is having massive

3010
02:43:55,280 --> 02:44:00,280
Speaker 10: consequences on a whole bunch of stuff. And the the

3011
02:44:00,360 --> 02:44:02,080
Speaker 10: place that I want to focus on with this is

3012
02:44:02,200 --> 02:44:08,080
Speaker 10: US agriculture because we have been seeing some extremely alarming

3013
02:44:08,240 --> 02:44:12,240
Speaker 10: things out of the American agricultural sector. That has really

3014
02:44:12,560 --> 02:44:18,680
Speaker 10: not broken out of like Midwest agriculture circles very much.

3015
02:44:19,800 --> 02:44:19,840
Speaker 6: So.

3016
02:44:20,320 --> 02:44:23,520
Speaker 10: One of the major consequences of in some sense also

3017
02:44:23,600 --> 02:44:25,760
Speaker 10: the tariffs on Brazili. One of the major consequences of

3018
02:44:25,840 --> 02:44:28,840
Speaker 10: the US tariffs on China is that, like China did

3019
02:44:28,879 --> 02:44:33,160
Speaker 10: in twenty eighteen, China has simply refused to buy any

3020
02:44:33,200 --> 02:44:38,199
Speaker 10: American soybeans. The US grows for export fifty two million

3021
02:44:38,320 --> 02:44:41,280
Speaker 10: tons of soy every year, and more than half of

3022
02:44:41,360 --> 02:44:42,320
Speaker 10: that is old to China.

3023
02:44:42,640 --> 02:44:45,720
Speaker 2: And again, if you're conspiratorial and belief that, like you know,

3024
02:44:45,879 --> 02:44:49,360
Speaker 2: the soy, the soy is ruining people, you shouldn't support this.

3025
02:44:52,400 --> 02:44:54,040
Speaker 10: Well no, no, no, no, no, no, no, you should.

3026
02:44:54,040 --> 02:44:54,360
Speaker 6: You should.

3027
02:44:54,360 --> 02:44:56,080
Speaker 10: You should be opposed to this because you should be

3028
02:44:56,160 --> 02:44:59,240
Speaker 10: wanting to export soy to China so that you can

3029
02:44:59,320 --> 02:45:01,440
Speaker 10: make you can the Chinese woke in soy.

3030
02:45:01,840 --> 02:45:03,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I was saying.

3031
02:45:03,320 --> 02:45:06,480
Speaker 10: Yes, oh, yeah, there do yeah, yeah, yeah, you should.

3032
02:45:06,200 --> 02:45:08,440
Speaker 2: Support the export of soy to China. We're getting it

3033
02:45:08,480 --> 02:45:11,119
Speaker 2: out of the US and to our greatest feel political enemy.

3034
02:45:12,240 --> 02:45:14,280
Speaker 10: And the other people who support the export of soy

3035
02:45:14,600 --> 02:45:18,160
Speaker 10: to China are American farmers. So god, I guess this

3036
02:45:18,280 --> 02:45:19,920
Speaker 10: is like This is like the farming thing that I

3037
02:45:20,000 --> 02:45:23,039
Speaker 10: say on this show. I did technically. There was technically

3038
02:45:23,879 --> 02:45:27,080
Speaker 10: a farm behind my house growing up. This is something

3039
02:45:27,120 --> 02:45:29,520
Speaker 10: that's very common in mid Western agriculture, is a soybean

3040
02:45:29,600 --> 02:45:32,400
Speaker 10: corn rotation. Doing a soybeing corn rotation is good for

3041
02:45:32,440 --> 02:45:35,080
Speaker 10: the soil, So it's very very common in American agriculture.

3042
02:45:35,320 --> 02:45:38,960
Speaker 4: Should you can fix nitrogen and soil with legumes.

3043
02:45:38,920 --> 02:45:41,280
Speaker 10: Yeah, but in order to do this you have to

3044
02:45:41,320 --> 02:45:43,880
Speaker 10: be able to sell the soybeans. And when this happened

3045
02:45:43,879 --> 02:45:46,480
Speaker 10: in twenty eighteen, this was kind of kind of behind

3046
02:45:46,560 --> 02:45:48,360
Speaker 10: the scenes, so that there was a whole big trade

3047
02:45:48,360 --> 02:45:51,800
Speaker 10: stand off in twenty eighteen, and one of the things

3048
02:45:51,840 --> 02:45:54,200
Speaker 10: that played a big role in ending it was the

3049
02:45:54,320 --> 02:45:56,680
Speaker 10: fact they trying to just didn't buy soybeans from the

3050
02:45:56,760 --> 02:46:01,199
Speaker 10: US for a year and it really, really, really messed

3051
02:46:01,280 --> 02:46:04,320
Speaker 10: with the American agricultural market. I'm going to read an

3052
02:46:04,360 --> 02:46:07,320
Speaker 10: account from the Progressive Farmer. This is a quote from Mackay.

3053
02:46:08,000 --> 02:46:10,720
Speaker 10: For most soybean farmers in North Dakota, you're looking at

3054
02:46:10,720 --> 02:46:13,120
Speaker 10: about one hundred to one hundred and fifty dollars loss

3055
02:46:13,200 --> 02:46:16,920
Speaker 10: per acre on every acre of soybeans planted. Grackle said

3056
02:46:17,440 --> 02:46:20,440
Speaker 10: on his own farm, he expects losses to top four

3057
02:46:20,680 --> 02:46:24,880
Speaker 10: hundred thousand dollars this year. Grackle said the losses are

3058
02:46:24,959 --> 02:46:28,320
Speaker 10: not just tied to individual farmers. It's the small businesses.

3059
02:46:28,440 --> 02:46:31,880
Speaker 10: Local grocery stores, hardware stores, are local schools or financial institutions.

3060
02:46:31,920 --> 02:46:35,080
Speaker 10: They're all feeling the hurt from this. Yeah, So what's

3061
02:46:35,080 --> 02:46:36,840
Speaker 10: happening right now is that there is a bunch of

3062
02:46:36,920 --> 02:46:39,160
Speaker 10: soybeans that are being that are just sitting there.

3063
02:46:39,280 --> 02:46:41,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, like no one wants to buy them.

3064
02:46:41,640 --> 02:46:44,240
Speaker 10: And I've seen a few things talking about like okay,

3065
02:46:44,240 --> 02:46:47,080
Speaker 10: they're you know, there's processing plant opening up. We can

3066
02:46:47,600 --> 02:46:51,720
Speaker 10: turn them into soybean oil and use like in the

3067
02:46:51,879 --> 02:46:55,560
Speaker 10: US and do that. But like, this is becoming a

3068
02:46:55,640 --> 02:47:00,160
Speaker 10: really serious logistical problem because the thing about corn and

3069
02:47:00,320 --> 02:47:02,560
Speaker 10: soybeans is that it's not like you store them in

3070
02:47:02,600 --> 02:47:04,520
Speaker 10: different things, right, because if you're a farmer, you're growing

3071
02:47:04,600 --> 02:47:07,040
Speaker 10: both of them. The sort of storage hubs that they

3072
02:47:07,120 --> 02:47:09,640
Speaker 10: use are the same ones. And the problem is that

3073
02:47:09,680 --> 02:47:11,920
Speaker 10: there are basically stockpiles building up of these soybeans that

3074
02:47:11,959 --> 02:47:14,879
Speaker 10: can't be sold. And this is becoming an increasing problem

3075
02:47:14,920 --> 02:47:18,240
Speaker 10: because there's the corn harvest and you have to put

3076
02:47:18,280 --> 02:47:21,120
Speaker 10: the corn somewhere. It's a good example of the kind

3077
02:47:21,200 --> 02:47:24,800
Speaker 10: of middle miniature logistical nightmares that are cropping up all

3078
02:47:24,920 --> 02:47:28,119
Speaker 10: up and down the supply chains as these tariffs sort

3079
02:47:28,120 --> 02:47:30,160
Speaker 10: of continue to roll in, and as the instability of

3080
02:47:30,200 --> 02:47:32,880
Speaker 10: them getting needs to roll in that you and I

3081
02:47:33,160 --> 02:47:35,640
Speaker 10: aren't seen yet or we haven't seen much of the

3082
02:47:35,720 --> 02:47:39,400
Speaker 10: effectives other than some small price increases, but down the

3083
02:47:39,440 --> 02:47:42,280
Speaker 10: supply chain there are increasing parts of the population who

3084
02:47:42,760 --> 02:47:46,160
Speaker 10: are just dealing with these just horrific logistical nightmares. This

3085
02:47:46,280 --> 02:47:48,600
Speaker 10: is going to be We're going to see the acceleration

3086
02:47:48,680 --> 02:47:53,600
Speaker 10: of this with a deminimous exemption being eliminated, and in

3087
02:47:53,680 --> 02:47:57,119
Speaker 10: the meantime, China is just basically going to the country

3088
02:47:57,160 --> 02:47:59,880
Speaker 10: that the US lap fifty percent tariffs on there go

3089
02:48:00,040 --> 02:48:03,800
Speaker 10: going to Brazil and attempting to basically supply their entire

3090
02:48:03,879 --> 02:48:06,560
Speaker 10: soybean demand largely from Brazil, which is like the other

3091
02:48:06,640 --> 02:48:10,680
Speaker 10: major soybean exporter. So this is also very important politically

3092
02:48:10,800 --> 02:48:15,360
Speaker 10: because the American farming sector is very, very powerful. There

3093
02:48:15,440 --> 02:48:19,360
Speaker 10: have been some bailouts already, but they're not going to

3094
02:48:19,400 --> 02:48:23,440
Speaker 10: be able to sustain the American farming sector, especially if

3095
02:48:23,480 --> 02:48:25,240
Speaker 10: this goes on for more than one year only. There

3096
02:48:25,320 --> 02:48:26,880
Speaker 10: was only one year in twenty eighteen when they didn't

3097
02:48:26,879 --> 02:48:29,000
Speaker 10: buy and it was at fiasco. If this goes on

3098
02:48:29,160 --> 02:48:31,040
Speaker 10: for an extended period of time, it is going to

3099
02:48:31,080 --> 02:48:33,440
Speaker 10: cause significantly larger problems. Also, the economy was doing a

3100
02:48:33,480 --> 02:48:35,080
Speaker 10: lot better in twenty eighteen than it is right now.

3101
02:48:35,520 --> 02:48:38,119
Speaker 10: I mean, it's still kind of a mess. But yeah,

3102
02:48:38,320 --> 02:48:41,240
Speaker 10: so this this is going to turn into an increasing

3103
02:48:41,360 --> 02:48:44,920
Speaker 10: sort of political thorn for Trump among a bunch of

3104
02:48:44,959 --> 02:48:47,400
Speaker 10: people who are supposed to be his base, because people

3105
02:48:47,560 --> 02:48:50,560
Speaker 10: are very, very frustrated about this, and it is getting

3106
02:48:50,640 --> 02:48:54,640
Speaker 10: very little press attention. This has been the American farming

3107
02:48:55,640 --> 02:48:57,520
Speaker 10: tariff update question mark.

3108
02:48:58,240 --> 02:48:59,879
Speaker 8: No, I mean, why would we want to hear about

3109
02:49:00,080 --> 02:49:02,320
Speaker 8: farming tariff news when instead we can just keep the

3110
02:49:02,400 --> 02:49:06,600
Speaker 8: culture war machine going to have everyone just gobsmacked over

3111
02:49:06,680 --> 02:49:10,199
Speaker 8: that instead, Like that's the whole point of their political machine.

3112
02:49:10,480 --> 02:49:12,800
Speaker 8: It's not that everything is a distraction from something else, right,

3113
02:49:13,000 --> 02:49:16,360
Speaker 8: It's that if you keep everyone engaged with this with

3114
02:49:16,640 --> 02:49:21,000
Speaker 8: like culture war nonsense, left wing terrorism, Charlie Kirk whatever,

3115
02:49:21,120 --> 02:49:22,640
Speaker 8: like all of this stuff.

3116
02:49:22,680 --> 02:49:25,879
Speaker 10: No one's going to care about farming tariff news.

3117
02:49:26,240 --> 02:49:28,720
Speaker 4: Even if you're a big liberal outlet right, you put

3118
02:49:28,760 --> 02:49:30,560
Speaker 4: it out there in like half your fucking audience is

3119
02:49:30,640 --> 02:49:33,200
Speaker 4: going to be like lol la maal they voted for Trump,

3120
02:49:33,400 --> 02:49:36,880
Speaker 4: sucks for them, like yeah yeah.

3121
02:49:37,000 --> 02:49:41,400
Speaker 10: And the question effectively is are the people who previously

3122
02:49:41,520 --> 02:49:45,520
Speaker 10: had been kept in line by woke bathroom anti dei

3123
02:49:46,720 --> 02:49:49,320
Speaker 10: like trans women in sports stuff going to be able

3124
02:49:49,400 --> 02:49:51,680
Speaker 10: to be kept in line when the soybeans are running

3125
02:49:51,680 --> 02:49:54,680
Speaker 10: in the field. And we will we will see, we

3126
02:49:54,760 --> 02:49:55,280
Speaker 10: shall see.

3127
02:49:55,720 --> 02:49:59,880
Speaker 8: Yeah, speaking of some Charlie Kirk culture war, The Department

3128
02:49:59,879 --> 02:50:04,000
Speaker 8: of Education has partnered with the America First Policy Institute

3129
02:50:04,120 --> 02:50:08,520
Speaker 8: and Turning Point USA for a new civics program. This

3130
02:50:08,720 --> 02:50:13,960
Speaker 8: is called the America two fifty Civics Education Coalition. They'll

3131
02:50:14,000 --> 02:50:18,000
Speaker 8: work with over forty national and state organizations to quote

3132
02:50:18,120 --> 02:50:21,600
Speaker 8: spearhead nationwide initiatives to engage students, educators, and communities and

3133
02:50:21,640 --> 02:50:27,640
Speaker 8: conversations about liberty, citizenship, and America's enduring values unquote. Other

3134
02:50:27,840 --> 02:50:32,199
Speaker 8: organizations a part of this coalition include Prager You, Moms

3135
02:50:32,280 --> 02:50:36,880
Speaker 8: for Liberty, Alliance, Defending Freedom, Heritage Foundation, and the three

3136
02:50:37,040 --> 02:50:40,760
Speaker 8: explicitly Christian lobbying Groups. Now, all of these groups are

3137
02:50:41,040 --> 02:50:44,520
Speaker 8: basically Christian lobbying groups, but three with like Christian or

3138
02:50:44,600 --> 02:50:48,840
Speaker 8: religious names in the title of the organizations now partnering

3139
02:50:48,920 --> 02:50:53,440
Speaker 8: directly with the state for this educational coalition. Let's play

3140
02:50:53,520 --> 02:50:56,080
Speaker 8: video from the new website explaining the initiative.

3141
02:50:58,760 --> 02:51:07,039
Speaker 14: American education once a shining light guiding generations, built on faith, heritage, patriotism,

3142
02:51:09,480 --> 02:51:13,200
Speaker 14: But over the past sixty to seventy years, that brilliance

3143
02:51:13,240 --> 02:51:14,000
Speaker 14: has been dimmed.

3144
02:51:14,680 --> 02:51:16,279
Speaker 6: A great institution has been.

3145
02:51:16,160 --> 02:51:19,199
Speaker 10: Crumbled from within, playing Civil rights era.

3146
02:51:19,440 --> 02:51:23,640
Speaker 14: Hatred for America, false revisionist history, and division.

3147
02:51:23,320 --> 02:51:26,080
Speaker 7: From fundamentally transforming the United States.

3148
02:51:26,720 --> 02:51:28,200
Speaker 4: Oh that's a triggering phrase for me.

3149
02:51:28,320 --> 02:51:30,360
Speaker 10: Critical race theory, gender queer drag queens.

3150
02:51:30,480 --> 02:51:35,000
Speaker 14: Now on the two hundred and fiftieth nation, the Department

3151
02:51:35,040 --> 02:51:39,600
Speaker 14: of Education, the America two fifty Civics Education Coalition, and

3152
02:51:39,720 --> 02:51:45,200
Speaker 14: partners across America are reigniting that light, restored understanding, and

3153
02:51:45,360 --> 02:51:48,440
Speaker 14: returning education to the States where it belongs.

3154
02:51:49,520 --> 02:51:51,360
Speaker 4: For this was a bunch of white kids right.

3155
02:51:51,320 --> 02:51:55,199
Speaker 14: That inspired the world, and under the leadership of President

3156
02:51:55,240 --> 02:51:57,240
Speaker 14: Trump and Secretary McMahon.

3157
02:51:58,920 --> 02:51:59,880
Speaker 10: That's Lend MacMahon.

3158
02:52:00,080 --> 02:52:07,880
Speaker 2: Oh my god, Oh my god, are you fucking kidding me?

3159
02:52:08,480 --> 02:52:11,760
Speaker 4: AI generated lighthouse, Oh my god.

3160
02:52:12,959 --> 02:52:14,400
Speaker 6: Because we are Americans.

3161
02:52:14,520 --> 02:52:19,240
Speaker 10: The futures ours. Oh my god, it's one of the

3162
02:52:19,400 --> 02:52:20,840
Speaker 10: craziest things I've ever seen.

3163
02:52:21,840 --> 02:52:22,920
Speaker 6: Yeah, oh my god.

3164
02:52:25,080 --> 02:52:27,840
Speaker 8: So the framing of the video is that this lighthouse

3165
02:52:27,879 --> 02:52:31,600
Speaker 8: has gone out and Linda McMahon emerges, polishes and fixes

3166
02:52:31,640 --> 02:52:37,800
Speaker 8: the lighthouse, which now shines across the nation, igniting our patriotic.

3167
02:52:37,360 --> 02:52:41,640
Speaker 4: Education to find a lighthouse in America. So they aied one.

3168
02:52:41,800 --> 02:52:45,160
Speaker 10: With audio from w W secretary.

3169
02:52:45,520 --> 02:52:49,760
Speaker 8: Man, it's like the most hyper reality American brain even

3170
02:52:49,879 --> 02:52:51,960
Speaker 8: say that this is this is like the here's a

3171
02:52:52,040 --> 02:52:54,800
Speaker 8: lead paint thing that we're talking about, like talking about

3172
02:52:54,800 --> 02:52:56,880
Speaker 8: how a maried education has been like totally destroyed. And

3173
02:52:56,879 --> 02:52:59,920
Speaker 8: they're playing footage of like Civil Rights era like protests

3174
02:53:00,040 --> 02:53:02,400
Speaker 8: and like leaders. You can't parody this.

3175
02:53:03,080 --> 02:53:03,440
Speaker 4: Nah no.

3176
02:53:04,200 --> 02:53:07,160
Speaker 2: And it's all set to the to the soundtrack and

3177
02:53:07,520 --> 02:53:11,480
Speaker 2: edited in the manner of like a big budget Hollywood

3178
02:53:11,520 --> 02:53:16,480
Speaker 2: acyluster from fifteen years ago. Yeah yeah, yeah, which I guess,

3179
02:53:16,560 --> 02:53:19,400
Speaker 2: you know, fucking conservative Christians are always but fifteen years yeah,

3180
02:53:19,440 --> 02:53:22,240
Speaker 2: and the culture shit like so that scans but yeah,

3181
02:53:22,320 --> 02:53:24,600
Speaker 2: like it, this is like it sounds like a fucking

3182
02:53:24,760 --> 02:53:27,600
Speaker 2: uh uh. Who's the guy who did independence stake? God

3183
02:53:27,680 --> 02:53:29,160
Speaker 2: damn it, you know what I'm saying.

3184
02:53:29,240 --> 02:53:31,560
Speaker 4: I don't know shit about popular culture, but yeah, we

3185
02:53:31,640 --> 02:53:34,599
Speaker 4: should just know that seventy years ago education was segregated

3186
02:53:34,680 --> 02:53:37,720
Speaker 4: in this country. Oh yeah, that's race they want, which

3187
02:53:37,800 --> 02:53:39,920
Speaker 4: is yes, I just want to I just want to

3188
02:53:40,040 --> 02:53:41,000
Speaker 4: just sort of drop that nugget.

3189
02:53:41,040 --> 02:53:44,240
Speaker 8: And I've listened in person to Charlie Kirk argue that

3190
02:53:44,280 --> 02:53:46,560
Speaker 8: we should repeal the Civil Rights Act, like that's what

3191
02:53:46,680 --> 02:53:47,400
Speaker 8: these people want.

3192
02:53:47,560 --> 02:53:49,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I just want to join the dots for

3193
02:53:49,560 --> 02:53:52,520
Speaker 4: folks who haven't and history as an heerenty revisionist, that's

3194
02:53:52,560 --> 02:53:54,600
Speaker 4: what we do. We don't just like go to go.

3195
02:53:54,680 --> 02:53:56,120
Speaker 4: We've done it all now, we've worked it all out.

3196
02:53:56,160 --> 02:53:58,480
Speaker 4: No need for any more historians. That's that, that's not

3197
02:53:58,600 --> 02:53:59,440
Speaker 4: how history works.

3198
02:53:59,760 --> 02:54:03,560
Speaker 10: The chief education officer of Turning Point Education, this is

3199
02:54:03,600 --> 02:54:08,600
Speaker 10: his real name, doctor hutts H Hertzburg triple H said

3200
02:54:08,640 --> 02:54:09,879
Speaker 10: that quote that.

3201
02:54:09,959 --> 02:54:12,920
Speaker 4: Was also wwe character Is it the same guy?

3202
02:54:13,920 --> 02:54:16,400
Speaker 10: No, this is a this is a Christian educator.

3203
02:54:16,720 --> 02:54:20,360
Speaker 8: Oh okay, he says quote Turning Point USA is more

3204
02:54:20,800 --> 02:54:25,680
Speaker 8: resolved than ever to advance God centered, virtuous education for

3205
02:54:25,800 --> 02:54:28,600
Speaker 8: students flourishing across our nation. With that in mind, we

3206
02:54:28,640 --> 02:54:31,720
Speaker 8: are honored to partner with the distinguished organizations that comprise

3207
02:54:32,040 --> 02:54:35,600
Speaker 8: the America two fifty Civics Education Coalition to restore, revive,

3208
02:54:35,840 --> 02:54:40,160
Speaker 8: and reclaim robust American Civics education for all students throughout

3209
02:54:40,280 --> 02:54:45,000
Speaker 8: our country unquote. Earlier today is Wednesday, the state of

3210
02:54:45,080 --> 02:54:49,840
Speaker 8: Oklahoma has announced that they will be establishing TPUSA chapters

3211
02:54:50,200 --> 02:54:54,400
Speaker 8: in every high school across the state. Oh great, here's

3212
02:54:54,440 --> 02:54:58,119
Speaker 8: the Superintendent Ryan Waters of Oklahoma.

3213
02:54:58,840 --> 02:55:02,120
Speaker 7: I'm excited to announce it that every Oklahoma high school

3214
02:55:02,520 --> 02:55:05,720
Speaker 7: will have a Turning Point USA chapter. We have seen

3215
02:55:05,760 --> 02:55:09,760
Speaker 7: the outpouring from parents, teachers, and students that want to

3216
02:55:09,840 --> 02:55:12,520
Speaker 7: be engaged in a meaningful work going on a turning Point.

3217
02:55:13,200 --> 02:55:15,920
Speaker 7: They want their young people to be engaged in a

3218
02:55:16,000 --> 02:55:22,400
Speaker 7: process that understands free speech, open engagement, dialogue about American greatness,

3219
02:55:22,800 --> 02:55:26,680
Speaker 7: a dialogue around American values. We're so excited to partner

3220
02:55:26,720 --> 02:55:31,160
Speaker 7: with Turning Point USA with this initiative. For far too long,

3221
02:55:31,280 --> 02:55:35,880
Speaker 7: we have seen radical leftists with the Teachers' Union dominate

3222
02:55:36,000 --> 02:55:40,840
Speaker 7: classrooms and push woken doctrination on our kids. They fight parents' rights,

3223
02:55:41,560 --> 02:55:44,280
Speaker 7: they push parents out of the classroom, and they lie

3224
02:55:44,320 --> 02:55:47,320
Speaker 7: to our kids about American history. What we're going to

3225
02:55:47,360 --> 02:55:50,000
Speaker 7: continue to do is make sure that our kids understand

3226
02:55:50,000 --> 02:55:55,240
Speaker 7: American greatness, engage in civic dialogue, and have that open discussion.

3227
02:55:56,600 --> 02:55:59,200
Speaker 7: We will continue to do all that we can to

3228
02:55:59,280 --> 02:56:01,560
Speaker 7: make sure Oklahoma students have the best education plots.

3229
02:56:02,200 --> 02:56:04,760
Speaker 10: Part of this announcement, He's written on Twitter. Quote radical

3230
02:56:04,840 --> 02:56:08,600
Speaker 10: leftist teachers. Unions have dominated classrooms for far too long,

3231
02:56:08,879 --> 02:56:11,960
Speaker 10: and we are taking them back. I think, Robert, we

3232
02:56:12,000 --> 02:56:14,720
Speaker 10: talked with this guy last year at the rn C.

3233
02:56:14,959 --> 02:56:15,920
Speaker 2: Yep, Yeah, we should.

3234
02:56:16,080 --> 02:56:18,400
Speaker 10: We might do something with that interview at some point.

3235
02:56:18,959 --> 02:56:20,640
Speaker 2: I wish he'd got he'd been out of a job

3236
02:56:20,720 --> 02:56:24,000
Speaker 2: by now. But life, life, Huh.

3237
02:56:25,000 --> 02:56:29,720
Speaker 8: The last thing I want to discuss today is quote

3238
02:56:29,800 --> 02:56:36,680
Speaker 8: unquote transgender terrorism, something I've seen many friends and posters

3239
02:56:36,720 --> 02:56:41,240
Speaker 8: across the internet be really, really concerned about, for you know,

3240
02:56:41,520 --> 02:56:44,280
Speaker 8: a lot of good reasons. Ken Kleppenstein has released a

3241
02:56:44,520 --> 02:56:47,840
Speaker 8: few articles the past few days. First to one from

3242
02:56:48,000 --> 02:56:52,800
Speaker 8: last week, quote the FBI ready's new war on trans people.

3243
02:56:53,320 --> 02:56:56,600
Speaker 8: The FBI is preparing to label transgender people as violent

3244
02:56:56,680 --> 02:56:59,600
Speaker 8: extremists in the wake of Charlie Kirk's murder. That is

3245
02:56:59,640 --> 02:57:02,680
Speaker 8: how hand framed that on the headline, and for his

3246
02:57:02,800 --> 02:57:06,640
Speaker 8: tweet alongside the article. Other outlets like them dot Us

3247
02:57:07,120 --> 02:57:10,680
Speaker 8: has spread this reporting even further. Quote FBI to categorize

3248
02:57:10,720 --> 02:57:14,520
Speaker 8: trans people as nihilistic violent extremist. Threat Group report says

3249
02:57:14,920 --> 02:57:17,640
Speaker 8: the Federal Bureau of Investigation is reportedly preparing to categorize

3250
02:57:17,680 --> 02:57:25,680
Speaker 8: transgender people as violent extremists. This framing is incorrect, and

3251
02:57:25,800 --> 02:57:30,640
Speaker 8: I will explain why in great detail shortly. The Federal

3252
02:57:30,640 --> 02:57:34,840
Speaker 8: Bureau of Investigation is not getting ready to categorize transgender

3253
02:57:34,920 --> 02:57:37,400
Speaker 8: people as like a category, as like a class of people,

3254
02:57:37,879 --> 02:57:41,440
Speaker 8: as violent extremists. There is no evidence that this is

3255
02:57:41,480 --> 02:57:45,240
Speaker 8: currentlyh they're doing. There's no internal communications arguing this. Even

3256
02:57:45,360 --> 02:57:47,720
Speaker 8: the Heritage Foundation's proposal to create a new category of

3257
02:57:47,760 --> 02:57:50,520
Speaker 8: trans terrorism is not arguing this, as I will quote

3258
02:57:50,520 --> 02:57:53,520
Speaker 8: from here shortly. But let's get into what the first

3259
02:57:53,640 --> 02:57:57,200
Speaker 8: article from Clippenstein actually wrote. Based on a source inside

3260
02:57:57,240 --> 02:57:59,520
Speaker 8: the government quote the senior official explains that there is

3261
02:57:59,640 --> 02:58:02,840
Speaker 8: no process per se for dealing with trans people as

3262
02:58:02,879 --> 02:58:06,760
Speaker 8: a quote unquote the threat group, but feels that trans

3263
02:58:06,800 --> 02:58:11,039
Speaker 8: individuals will be increasingly targeted under the banner of violent extremism.

3264
02:58:11,440 --> 02:58:14,440
Speaker 8: Under the plan being discussed, the FBI would treat transgender

3265
02:58:14,560 --> 02:58:17,200
Speaker 8: subjects as a subset of the bureau's new threat category,

3266
02:58:17,480 --> 02:58:22,320
Speaker 8: nihilistic violent extremists unquote. We've talked about nihilistic violent extremists

3267
02:58:22,360 --> 02:58:26,360
Speaker 8: on this show before, back in spring, and we all

3268
02:58:26,440 --> 02:58:29,119
Speaker 8: know that the Trump administration has been targeting trans people

3269
02:58:29,200 --> 02:58:31,320
Speaker 8: like this is something that everyone who listens to this

3270
02:58:31,360 --> 02:58:33,560
Speaker 8: show is aware of. This is this is a real thing.

3271
02:58:34,000 --> 02:58:37,440
Speaker 8: But there is not actually any new verifiable information in

3272
02:58:37,879 --> 02:58:42,600
Speaker 8: this report. There's rhetoric from people like Donald Trump Junior

3273
02:58:42,720 --> 02:58:47,120
Speaker 8: and right wing influencers talking about transgender terrorists and this

3274
02:58:47,280 --> 02:58:50,080
Speaker 8: trend of transgender terrorists as they have been for the

3275
02:58:50,120 --> 02:58:52,120
Speaker 8: past two years. Me and Mia did that piece about

3276
02:58:52,320 --> 02:58:55,760
Speaker 8: fake trans terrorists, like almost two years ago. That was

3277
02:58:55,840 --> 02:58:58,400
Speaker 8: two years ago to we we've been tracking this rhetoric

3278
02:58:58,440 --> 02:59:00,760
Speaker 8: for a long time. So stuff like that that fills

3279
02:59:00,920 --> 02:59:02,840
Speaker 8: up a lot of the space in articles like this,

3280
02:59:03,120 --> 02:59:08,119
Speaker 8: but new verifiable information is actually quite short. In this article,

3281
02:59:08,440 --> 02:59:11,720
Speaker 8: Ken has a single unnamed official who quote unquote feels

3282
02:59:12,480 --> 02:59:15,920
Speaker 8: like trans people could be labeled nihilistic violent extremists. Now,

3283
02:59:16,000 --> 02:59:19,200
Speaker 8: in Ken's previous reporting about this label, he misunderstood the

3284
02:59:19,320 --> 02:59:23,880
Speaker 8: ENV label. This label exists just essentially for seven to

3285
02:59:23,920 --> 02:59:27,360
Speaker 8: sixty four. The child this exploitation group that operates on

3286
02:59:27,440 --> 02:59:29,600
Speaker 8: the discord and telegram and branch off groups from that.

3287
02:59:29,640 --> 02:59:31,039
Speaker 8: We've talked about them on the show be here before

3288
02:59:31,080 --> 02:59:34,640
Speaker 8: as well. And the nihilist of violent extremism term predates

3289
02:59:34,680 --> 02:59:37,200
Speaker 8: the Trump administration. This isn't a cash betel thing. This

3290
02:59:37,360 --> 02:59:40,160
Speaker 8: this predates the Trump admin. This was active last year,

3291
02:59:40,640 --> 02:59:44,520
Speaker 8: and it primarily is to categorize and map these child's

3292
02:59:44,520 --> 02:59:48,880
Speaker 8: exploitation rings and some overlapping communities like the school shooter fandom.

3293
02:59:49,320 --> 02:59:52,320
Speaker 8: But in Ken's article here, there's no like leaked documents

3294
02:59:52,400 --> 02:59:56,360
Speaker 8: in this report showing like current memos or communications on

3295
02:59:56,600 --> 02:59:59,600
Speaker 8: this topic. Ken's great for leaks, but there's there's not

3296
02:59:59,800 --> 03:00:01,960
Speaker 8: lea documents in this report.

3297
03:00:02,080 --> 03:00:02,240
Speaker 10: Now.

3298
03:00:03,080 --> 03:00:05,680
Speaker 8: As we all know and we've reported, the right wing

3299
03:00:05,760 --> 03:00:08,680
Speaker 8: hate campaign against trans people is a real thing. It's

3300
03:00:09,040 --> 03:00:12,200
Speaker 8: coming from the Trump administration, from state level government as

3301
03:00:12,240 --> 03:00:16,640
Speaker 8: well as the entire conservative media apparatus. But I think

3302
03:00:16,800 --> 03:00:19,760
Speaker 8: right now especially, it's really important to read reports like

3303
03:00:19,879 --> 03:00:26,480
Speaker 8: this very carefully. Trans Fear mongering massively boosts social media engagement,

3304
03:00:26,560 --> 03:00:29,240
Speaker 8: which then can encourage people to use framing like this

3305
03:00:29,400 --> 03:00:33,440
Speaker 8: that might actually kind of be irresponsible. Now, a few

3306
03:00:33,560 --> 03:00:37,879
Speaker 8: hours before Pilplstein published this first article. The Heritage Foundation

3307
03:00:38,080 --> 03:00:41,600
Speaker 8: and their Oversight Project released a petition to have the

3308
03:00:41,800 --> 03:00:45,480
Speaker 8: FBI designate a new category of violent extremism, which they

3309
03:00:45,560 --> 03:00:50,480
Speaker 8: call trans ideology inspired violent extremism or TIV.

3310
03:00:51,120 --> 03:00:51,440
Speaker 2: Quote.

3311
03:00:51,760 --> 03:00:55,039
Speaker 10: TIV is based on the belief that violence is justified

3312
03:00:55,040 --> 03:00:58,760
Speaker 10: against those who do not share radical views of transgender ideology.

3313
03:00:59,200 --> 03:01:02,000
Speaker 10: It has led to an increasing trend of TIV domestic

3314
03:01:02,200 --> 03:01:05,840
Speaker 10: terrorist events across the country in recent years. TIV has

3315
03:01:05,840 --> 03:01:09,320
Speaker 10: played a role in the majority of mass shootings at schools,

3316
03:01:09,680 --> 03:01:14,240
Speaker 10: that is the Heritage Foundation's claim. The petition includes a

3317
03:01:14,320 --> 03:01:18,600
Speaker 10: list of quote unquote TIV motivated attacks, including multiple attackers

3318
03:01:18,600 --> 03:01:22,400
Speaker 10: who either were not trans or were clearly not motivated

3319
03:01:22,560 --> 03:01:26,520
Speaker 10: by trans ideology, as reporting at the time and government

3320
03:01:26,760 --> 03:01:29,920
Speaker 10: documents have shown, including acts from the past like six

3321
03:01:30,040 --> 03:01:34,040
Speaker 10: or seven years. But Heritage rights that quote experts estimate

3322
03:01:34,200 --> 03:01:38,520
Speaker 10: no citation that fifty percent of non gang related school

3323
03:01:38,520 --> 03:01:43,160
Speaker 10: shootings since twenty fifteen have quote involved or likely involve

3324
03:01:43,400 --> 03:01:46,359
Speaker 10: trans ideology unquote fifty percent.

3325
03:01:46,680 --> 03:01:50,760
Speaker 8: Have involved or likely involved. Yet in this list they

3326
03:01:50,800 --> 03:01:54,640
Speaker 8: can only list three school shootings. They can only list three,

3327
03:01:55,000 --> 03:01:58,240
Speaker 8: even their own list, which they say fifty percent likely

3328
03:01:58,400 --> 03:01:59,920
Speaker 8: involve trans ideology.

3329
03:02:00,720 --> 03:02:02,640
Speaker 10: There's been more than three school shootings this year.

3330
03:02:03,000 --> 03:02:05,920
Speaker 8: This month, There's been more three school shootings not involving

3331
03:02:05,959 --> 03:02:06,760
Speaker 8: trans people this year.

3332
03:02:07,160 --> 03:02:10,279
Speaker 10: This is a wild, wildly atrocious.

3333
03:02:10,360 --> 03:02:10,720
Speaker 4: Is sad?

3334
03:02:11,320 --> 03:02:14,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just fabricate dude, right, Like and again like

3335
03:02:14,680 --> 03:02:17,959
Speaker 2: reality doesn't matter, Like that's that's the point.

3336
03:02:18,040 --> 03:02:21,200
Speaker 8: Like, no, this is the Heritage Foundation, Like come on, yeah, yeah.

3337
03:02:21,680 --> 03:02:26,240
Speaker 8: But importantly, like a violent extremism designation would not mean

3338
03:02:26,440 --> 03:02:30,360
Speaker 8: that all trans people as a class are deemed violent extremists.

3339
03:02:30,440 --> 03:02:32,119
Speaker 8: What it would do is it would create a category

3340
03:02:32,200 --> 03:02:37,119
Speaker 8: to use for investigations into violent acts, graph patterns of violence,

3341
03:02:37,480 --> 03:02:41,240
Speaker 8: argue in court documents, and possibly include some preemptive surveillance

3342
03:02:41,320 --> 03:02:44,040
Speaker 8: on people or groups that are deemed as threats as

3343
03:02:44,080 --> 03:02:46,720
Speaker 8: a part of this strut group. But in the petition,

3344
03:02:47,120 --> 03:02:52,080
Speaker 8: Heritage says that no, not all transgender individuals or their

3345
03:02:52,120 --> 03:02:53,920
Speaker 8: allies are domestic terrorists.

3346
03:02:55,040 --> 03:02:55,320
Speaker 2: Quote.

3347
03:02:55,520 --> 03:02:57,920
Speaker 10: They are even free to engage it in offensive and

3348
03:02:58,040 --> 03:03:00,320
Speaker 10: hateful speech under the First Amendment, so long as they

3349
03:03:00,360 --> 03:03:04,600
Speaker 10: do not stray into unlawful incitement, defamation, true threat, obscenity,

3350
03:03:04,920 --> 03:03:07,000
Speaker 10: or some other category of non protected speech.

3351
03:03:07,040 --> 03:03:10,280
Speaker 8: The domestic terror destination becomes relevant only when individuals or

3352
03:03:10,320 --> 03:03:13,680
Speaker 8: groups one are motivated by an ideology that encourages, promotes,

3353
03:03:13,720 --> 03:03:18,080
Speaker 8: or condones violence, and two take or incite unlawful violent

3354
03:03:18,160 --> 03:03:21,880
Speaker 8: action or threats based on that ideology. Both criteria must

3355
03:03:21,959 --> 03:03:25,600
Speaker 8: be met. Unquote, that's from the Heritage's own petition.

3356
03:03:25,800 --> 03:03:26,080
Speaker 10: It's not.

3357
03:03:26,440 --> 03:03:32,000
Speaker 8: There's nothing in Heritage's own petition or Ken's article that

3358
03:03:32,160 --> 03:03:35,640
Speaker 8: says that trans people entirely are going to be deemed

3359
03:03:36,400 --> 03:03:40,600
Speaker 8: terrorists or a domestic like extremist threat group. That's not

3360
03:03:40,800 --> 03:03:44,680
Speaker 8: what either Heritage or what the actual details of articles

3361
03:03:44,760 --> 03:03:47,680
Speaker 8: like Ken's is saying. And to further kind of show

3362
03:03:47,720 --> 03:03:51,480
Speaker 8: this divide, the Heritage petition also addresses the nihilist violent

3363
03:03:51,520 --> 03:03:54,879
Speaker 8: extremism label as a completely separate thing, unrelated trans people

3364
03:03:55,160 --> 03:03:58,320
Speaker 8: that they do not want combined into one single category.

3365
03:03:58,520 --> 03:04:01,240
Speaker 8: I don't know why Ken keeps pushing this label so much.

3366
03:04:01,879 --> 03:04:04,600
Speaker 8: It's really important to understand how trans people are actually

3367
03:04:04,640 --> 03:04:06,959
Speaker 8: under threat right now, because they are right The biggest

3368
03:04:06,959 --> 03:04:09,760
Speaker 8: threats to transporople right now are access to healthcare specific

3369
03:04:09,879 --> 03:04:11,680
Speaker 8: for people who are under the age of eighteen and

3370
03:04:11,959 --> 03:04:14,600
Speaker 8: things like bathroom bands and trying to restrict transmitter people

3371
03:04:14,640 --> 03:04:15,480
Speaker 8: from public life.

3372
03:04:15,800 --> 03:04:17,720
Speaker 10: But the other biggest.

3373
03:04:17,360 --> 03:04:20,360
Speaker 8: Threat to transpeople right now is like ourselves, and we

3374
03:04:20,480 --> 03:04:23,400
Speaker 8: don't need to do the government's work for them to

3375
03:04:23,560 --> 03:04:27,720
Speaker 8: keep us so demoralized. Spreading misinformation or unverified reports like

3376
03:04:27,800 --> 03:04:32,160
Speaker 8: this that just makes everyone panicked and freak out actually

3377
03:04:32,280 --> 03:04:35,800
Speaker 8: harms us and our community. The trans panic industrial complex

3378
03:04:35,920 --> 03:04:38,440
Speaker 8: is dangerous, and people need to be very careful about

3379
03:04:38,480 --> 03:04:43,280
Speaker 8: this because it's an extremely dangerous time and having an

3380
03:04:43,360 --> 03:04:45,760
Speaker 8: accurate assessment over what's going on is going to be

3381
03:04:45,840 --> 03:04:49,280
Speaker 8: crucial to survive the next few months to years.

3382
03:04:49,640 --> 03:04:53,080
Speaker 2: No, and again, we've seen this on the right, and

3383
03:04:53,840 --> 03:04:55,800
Speaker 2: this has played a role in radicalizing a lot of

3384
03:04:55,840 --> 03:04:57,920
Speaker 2: people on the right and getting them to do fucked

3385
03:04:57,959 --> 03:05:01,720
Speaker 2: up shit. Is year of like they're coming for you.

3386
03:05:01,840 --> 03:05:03,880
Speaker 2: They're coming for you. They're going to be coming for

3387
03:05:03,959 --> 03:05:07,360
Speaker 2: you tonight, right like you're already dead. You know, there's

3388
03:05:07,480 --> 03:05:12,480
Speaker 2: money in pushing and there's clout in pushing hopelessness. Yeah,

3389
03:05:12,720 --> 03:05:16,920
Speaker 2: And I don't want to be telling people everything's good,

3390
03:05:17,080 --> 03:05:20,080
Speaker 2: because it's not that things are very dangerous for trans

3391
03:05:20,120 --> 03:05:21,760
Speaker 2: people right now in a way they have not been

3392
03:05:22,200 --> 03:05:25,240
Speaker 2: at any point previously in very recent history. Things are

3393
03:05:25,320 --> 03:05:30,080
Speaker 2: much worse right nobody's denying that, but you have to

3394
03:05:30,120 --> 03:05:33,600
Speaker 2: look at like the facts of how they're worse, as

3395
03:05:33,640 --> 03:05:38,120
Speaker 2: opposed to not reading an article or analyzing what the

3396
03:05:38,240 --> 03:05:41,199
Speaker 2: article actually says, or analyzing what the Heritage Foundation says

3397
03:05:41,360 --> 03:05:44,959
Speaker 2: and saying they've they're declaring all of us terrorists, right,

3398
03:05:45,080 --> 03:05:45,720
Speaker 2: because that's.

3399
03:05:45,600 --> 03:05:50,160
Speaker 10: Not going to end well, no, don't panic organize. That's

3400
03:05:50,240 --> 03:05:53,920
Speaker 10: the actual solution to this. I also want to briefly

3401
03:05:54,080 --> 03:05:56,400
Speaker 10: note on I've seen a lot of comparisons of this

3402
03:05:56,640 --> 03:06:01,520
Speaker 10: to the black identity extremism designation, and I want to

3403
03:06:01,560 --> 03:06:03,880
Speaker 10: bring this back to something that Garrison mentioned earlier about

3404
03:06:04,480 --> 03:06:07,560
Speaker 10: the way that the nihilist extremism category was like specifically

3405
03:06:07,680 --> 03:06:11,920
Speaker 10: designed to target like a specific sort of complex network

3406
03:06:12,200 --> 03:06:16,560
Speaker 10: of yeah, pedophile discord servers. Yeah, this is the same

3407
03:06:16,840 --> 03:06:20,400
Speaker 10: methodology that was used for Black identity extremism. Black identity

3408
03:06:20,440 --> 03:06:23,880
Speaker 10: extremism wasn't a category they conjured out of nowhere to

3409
03:06:23,959 --> 03:06:26,920
Speaker 10: go after all black people. It was a category that

3410
03:06:27,080 --> 03:06:30,320
Speaker 10: was specifically designed to go after specific activists in the

3411
03:06:30,360 --> 03:06:33,120
Speaker 10: wake of Occupy and the wake of Ferguson. Yeah, and

3412
03:06:34,280 --> 03:06:39,560
Speaker 10: this is completely just not the process that is happening

3413
03:06:39,680 --> 03:06:43,480
Speaker 10: for this, right, Like, we're not dealing with Okay, there

3414
03:06:43,560 --> 03:06:45,920
Speaker 10: is a specific group of transactivists that the government wants

3415
03:06:45,959 --> 03:06:48,880
Speaker 10: to target, so they're creating a label for it, right,

3416
03:06:48,959 --> 03:06:51,240
Speaker 10: We don't have any evidence of that at all. What

3417
03:06:51,360 --> 03:06:56,480
Speaker 10: we have is anonymous sources saying they feel like something

3418
03:06:56,600 --> 03:06:57,439
Speaker 10: might happen.

3419
03:06:57,280 --> 03:06:59,360
Speaker 8: That trans people could be targeted, and you're like, yeah,

3420
03:06:59,480 --> 03:07:02,800
Speaker 8: trans people have been targeted like that, that's what's happening. Yeah,

3421
03:07:03,000 --> 03:07:05,279
Speaker 8: Are they going to be labeled denialist of violand streamists

3422
03:07:05,720 --> 03:07:06,200
Speaker 8: at this point?

3423
03:07:06,280 --> 03:07:09,960
Speaker 10: Unlikely? Could the FBI consider adopting something like the Heritage

3424
03:07:09,959 --> 03:07:11,119
Speaker 10: proposal for FORTIV?

3425
03:07:11,720 --> 03:07:11,920
Speaker 4: Yeah?

3426
03:07:12,000 --> 03:07:16,400
Speaker 8: Possibly, Yeah, that is that is absolutely a possibility. Would

3427
03:07:16,480 --> 03:07:19,120
Speaker 8: that come into reality the same way that people are

3428
03:07:19,200 --> 03:07:21,800
Speaker 8: talking about it online or the way that headlines are

3429
03:07:21,840 --> 03:07:25,480
Speaker 8: framing it. No, it's not about designating all trans people

3430
03:07:25,520 --> 03:07:26,640
Speaker 8: as terrorists as a class.

3431
03:07:27,000 --> 03:07:29,600
Speaker 10: It's not about that. And it also wouldn't function like

3432
03:07:29,640 --> 03:07:32,440
Speaker 10: the black identity extreamist thing, because again, that was like

3433
03:07:32,680 --> 03:07:35,000
Speaker 10: they already had people they were going after and they

3434
03:07:35,120 --> 03:07:38,360
Speaker 10: wanted a legal category that they could deploy in order

3435
03:07:38,400 --> 03:07:40,480
Speaker 10: to go after them. That's not what's happening here. They

3436
03:07:40,520 --> 03:07:45,199
Speaker 10: don't have like a list of like trans discord servers

3437
03:07:45,240 --> 03:07:47,840
Speaker 10: that they're about to round up for like doing a protest,

3438
03:07:48,280 --> 03:07:49,879
Speaker 10: Like that's not what's happening here.

3439
03:07:50,160 --> 03:07:53,600
Speaker 8: No, but they could go after people who make threats online,

3440
03:07:54,040 --> 03:07:56,880
Speaker 8: and that's something that I'm sure Cashtel's FBI yeah, would

3441
03:07:56,920 --> 03:07:59,000
Speaker 8: love to do. And if they can sort those people

3442
03:07:59,400 --> 03:08:03,600
Speaker 8: into a category like tive to argue in a prosecution

3443
03:08:03,879 --> 03:08:06,120
Speaker 8: or to or to make like a flow chart to

3444
03:08:06,240 --> 03:08:09,440
Speaker 8: direct investigations, then that's the realm they're gonna use.

3445
03:08:10,080 --> 03:08:12,520
Speaker 10: Yeah, but even that, we are so far away from

3446
03:08:12,560 --> 03:08:17,000
Speaker 10: them even like starting that process that you should be

3447
03:08:17,440 --> 03:08:22,600
Speaker 10: concerned about the actual threats from like I don't know,

3448
03:08:22,640 --> 03:08:25,320
Speaker 10: I mean just like literally there's there's been a series

3449
03:08:25,360 --> 03:08:27,440
Speaker 10: of attacks on trans people, just like in neighborhoods in

3450
03:08:27,440 --> 03:08:29,800
Speaker 10: Seattle by just like gangs of dudes. Right, That's like

3451
03:08:29,879 --> 03:08:33,240
Speaker 10: an actual, substantive thing that is happening. That is not this,

3452
03:08:34,080 --> 03:08:36,160
Speaker 10: that is not some sort of nebulous like we are

3453
03:08:36,200 --> 03:08:38,960
Speaker 10: relying on opinions of unnamed officials. We can look at

3454
03:08:39,400 --> 03:08:42,400
Speaker 10: and evaluate and figure out what we're going to do

3455
03:08:42,520 --> 03:08:45,279
Speaker 10: about it instead of just giving into the panic industrial

3456
03:08:45,320 --> 03:08:47,360
Speaker 10: complex and panicking about it.

3457
03:08:47,760 --> 03:08:50,400
Speaker 8: Yeah, things that are frame bombastically like this go super

3458
03:08:50,480 --> 03:08:52,680
Speaker 8: viral and they spread a lot, and that's what the

3459
03:08:52,720 --> 03:08:55,359
Speaker 8: algorithms are encouraging. I mean, same thing with the algorithmic

3460
03:08:55,400 --> 03:08:58,040
Speaker 8: boosting of you know, false flight conspiracy theories, because those

3461
03:08:58,400 --> 03:09:02,600
Speaker 8: are so much more satisfying. They spread like wildfire across

3462
03:09:02,680 --> 03:09:06,160
Speaker 8: blue sky and Twitter and like even things like Instagram stories,

3463
03:09:06,640 --> 03:09:09,360
Speaker 8: and just be very careful about anything that goes viral

3464
03:09:09,680 --> 03:09:12,280
Speaker 8: because that claim is trying to influence your brain. It's

3465
03:09:12,320 --> 03:09:16,280
Speaker 8: trying to worm its way into your brain to take

3466
03:09:16,320 --> 03:09:18,920
Speaker 8: the form as a thought that you had yourself. And

3467
03:09:19,640 --> 03:09:22,240
Speaker 8: be super careful because this type of weaponize on reality

3468
03:09:22,840 --> 03:09:24,959
Speaker 8: has been used so successfully the past ten years against

3469
03:09:25,000 --> 03:09:26,080
Speaker 8: the right. This is how the whole like you know,

3470
03:09:26,200 --> 03:09:31,040
Speaker 8: migrant panic wave started lies about immigration. This like panicked framing.

3471
03:09:31,200 --> 03:09:34,240
Speaker 8: These things spread like wildfire online and now you have

3472
03:09:34,720 --> 03:09:37,360
Speaker 8: large swaths of the country believing in this genuine like

3473
03:09:37,560 --> 03:09:40,320
Speaker 8: like you know, migrant crisis. And this is how social

3474
03:09:40,360 --> 03:09:43,440
Speaker 8: media functions to influence how your brain thinks and how

3475
03:09:43,480 --> 03:09:46,640
Speaker 8: your brain process is fact from fiction and forms like

3476
03:09:46,720 --> 03:09:49,959
Speaker 8: a collective sense of reality. And you are also being

3477
03:09:50,080 --> 03:09:53,760
Speaker 8: targeted by this same process in different ways than the

3478
03:09:53,840 --> 03:09:56,280
Speaker 8: right is, but this process is still targeting you as well,

3479
03:09:56,600 --> 03:10:00,560
Speaker 8: and it's like super important to like, read things critically

3480
03:10:01,040 --> 03:10:04,720
Speaker 8: and take time before jumping to conclusions, because I don't

3481
03:10:04,720 --> 03:10:08,320
Speaker 8: think we need more quick, emotionally satisfying conspiracy theories in

3482
03:10:08,360 --> 03:10:08,720
Speaker 8: our life.

3483
03:10:09,240 --> 03:10:09,440
Speaker 6: Yeah.

3484
03:10:10,080 --> 03:10:14,440
Speaker 2: Anyway, that's the news this week, we sure did report it. Yeah,

3485
03:10:14,800 --> 03:10:15,160
Speaker 2: the news.

3486
03:10:15,280 --> 03:10:18,360
Speaker 4: This week we reported the head out of media go away.

3487
03:10:20,000 --> 03:10:28,080
Speaker 2: We reported the news. Hey, We'll be back Monday with

3488
03:10:28,360 --> 03:10:31,160
Speaker 2: more episodes every week from now until the heat death

3489
03:10:31,200 --> 03:10:31,840
Speaker 2: of the Universe.

3490
03:10:32,600 --> 03:10:35,080
Speaker 1: It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.

3491
03:10:35,280 --> 03:10:38,320
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

3492
03:10:38,440 --> 03:10:41,920
Speaker 1: Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

3493
03:10:42,080 --> 03:10:44,000
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever.

3494
03:10:43,760 --> 03:10:44,880
Speaker 10: You listen to podcasts.

3495
03:10:45,400 --> 03:10:47,280
Speaker 1: We can now find sources for it Could Happen here,

3496
03:10:47,360 --> 03:10:50,279
Speaker 1: listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.