WEBVTT - Ep. 911: Makaw Whaling Practices, Treaty Rights, and Regulatory Challenges 0:00:08.760 --> 0:00:13.320 If this is the me Eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely, 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:16.000 bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listening. 0:00:16.960 --> 0:00:22.079 Podcast, you can't predict anything brought to you by first Light. 0:00:22.200 --> 0:00:25.600 When I'm hunting, I need gear that won't quit. First 0:00:25.680 --> 0:00:29.080 light builds, no compromise, gear that keeps me in the 0:00:29.120 --> 0:00:33.400 field longer, no shortcuts, just gear that works. Check it 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:35.760 out at first light dot com. 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:39.320 That's f I R S T L I T E 0:00:39.680 --> 0:00:45.240 dot com. Okay, folks, saddle up or put your life 0:00:45.280 --> 0:00:48.159 jackets on, because we're going to talk about whaling, modern 0:00:48.200 --> 0:00:54.000 day whaling, specifically the traditional and modern day whale hunting 0:00:54.040 --> 0:00:58.520 practices and challenges of the Macaw tribe from Washington State's 0:00:58.560 --> 0:01:01.720 Olympic Peninsula. We're joined by depends how you look at 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:06.640 either three or four guests. We have Chairman TJ. Green, 0:01:06.720 --> 0:01:12.200 who is the chairman of the Maca Tribal Council and 0:01:12.280 --> 0:01:15.920 his areas of expertise include policy, legal hurdles, tribal politics, 0:01:15.920 --> 0:01:18.760 and historical organizational context. 0:01:19.200 --> 0:01:22.760 Okay, you've been with the Tribal Council for nine years. 0:01:23.120 --> 0:01:24.040 Yes, all right. 0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:27.959 We got Daniel Green, who's the Vice President of the 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:34.320 Whaling Commission and has been involved in whale hunts, butcher 0:01:34.319 --> 0:01:35.839 and wales, all that kind of stuff. 0:01:36.920 --> 0:01:37.560 All the above. 0:01:38.360 --> 0:01:41.759 We have loop a castanata am I saying that right, Yeah, 0:01:41.880 --> 0:01:43.679 who's a ye. 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:47.320 Who's a council member and a first foods expert. 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:50.520 He's gonna help us understand a little bit about nutrition, 0:01:51.440 --> 0:01:53.840 health impacts, and environmental. 0:01:53.200 --> 0:01:56.280 Toxins that can be found in whale meat. 0:01:57.480 --> 0:02:00.360 And we have Chris Martinez who he's he's just hanging out, 0:02:00.640 --> 0:02:02.200 but just quick tell tell people what you do do. 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:05.200 I'm the chief of staff for the McCAT Tribal Council. 0:02:05.720 --> 0:02:10.679 I also sit as secretary of the McCaw Wheeling Commission. 0:02:10.800 --> 0:02:11.160 Got it? 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:13.880 So I'm here just hanging out, all right. 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:17.480 So let's let's start with this man and uh TJ. 0:02:17.560 --> 0:02:18.440 You can answer this question. 0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:25.040 Explain who are the Macaw okay and and what does 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:25.760 that word mean? 0:02:26.840 --> 0:02:27.280 All right? 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:30.000 And and what what do you regard as like like 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:35.119 what do you guys regard as your your traditional homeland 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:37.280 and what what do you regard as your homeland? 0:02:37.320 --> 0:02:42.160 Now, well, the McCaw tribe is very northwestern tip of 0:02:42.600 --> 0:02:46.840 Washington State. We've been there since the first light. Is 0:02:47.200 --> 0:02:51.400 how we say it, okay. Yeah. And and we're you know, 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:54.320 we got about thirty one hundred members and sixteen hundred 0:02:54.360 --> 0:02:57.160 live on a reservation. It's a Federal Indian reservation, now, okay. 0:02:57.760 --> 0:03:01.000 And you know we're we're ocean people. You know, we're 0:03:01.000 --> 0:03:05.959 connected to that ocean. That's been the lifeblood and our 0:03:06.000 --> 0:03:10.840 spiritual existence and our cultural practices all revolve around activities 0:03:10.880 --> 0:03:14.000 on that ocean. And so you know, that's that's who 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:17.840 we are. You know, Macaw is not our word. Okay, 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:21.280 it's not it's not our word. It's a Salish word. 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:24.680 You are our neighbor, neighboring tribe. It was a Salish 0:03:24.760 --> 0:03:28.880 nation called us Macaw and that means generous host. 0:03:29.480 --> 0:03:32.200 Oh, because a lot of times those names are like 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:35.080 a lot of times there's names that get picked up 0:03:35.120 --> 0:03:38.280 that are not great. Yeah, that translate to sort of 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:40.360 like a like you know, like the enemy, the enemy 0:03:40.440 --> 0:03:43.440 or whatever. You know, generous hosts, generous host. 0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:46.520 Even though we had wars with that nation. Oh did 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:47.720 that's what they called us. 0:03:47.800 --> 0:03:48.840 That's what mcca means. 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:50.160 That's what was. 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:53.120 Your traditional like like not traditional, but what was what 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:56.960 what what what did the Macaw call themselves at the time? 0:03:57.000 --> 0:04:00.720 That the sailors started calling them the Macaw quiditch chat. 0:04:01.480 --> 0:04:04.880 Oh what's that mean? That's that's a hard word to say. 0:04:04.880 --> 0:04:07.000 People who live amongst the rocks and seagulls. 0:04:07.160 --> 0:04:09.080 Oh really, yeah, that was the name. 0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:09.880 That's sens. 0:04:09.960 --> 0:04:11.240 Do you guys still use that name now? 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:11.680 We do? 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:15.040 Okay? Yeah, see yeah, so so. 0:04:15.240 --> 0:04:17.599 But in your relationships with the government, you're like in 0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:19.839 the media, you're the Maca tribe, the Macaw. 0:04:20.720 --> 0:04:24.039 Correct. That's during the treaty negotiations eighteen fifty five treaty 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:30.200 in the Abbay, that's what the governor Stevens govtnor Isaac Stevens, 0:04:30.200 --> 0:04:32.800 you know he was. He couldn't say quidditch chat. I'm 0:04:32.800 --> 0:04:35.480 sure so like me. He was like me and man, 0:04:35.520 --> 0:04:36.159 he couldn't say it. 0:04:36.600 --> 0:04:40.240 Huh. That's interesting, man, here's. 0:04:40.040 --> 0:04:43.920 One for For For the most part, you guys can 0:04:43.960 --> 0:04:46.200 just decide amongst yourselves who's best to answer a question, 0:04:46.400 --> 0:04:47.720 or if you want to both take a stab at, 0:04:47.720 --> 0:04:49.800 you both take a stab at. But I wanted to 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:53.120 ask because Daniels had experience with you know, sort of 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:54.800 on the ground experience, and maybe all you guys have 0:04:54.800 --> 0:05:00.560 had on the ground experience with whaling but. 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:00.000 We like his store. 0:05:00.520 --> 0:05:04.080 And is it annoying if I say historically, no, okay, 0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:08.440 because that's the thing, like a white dude's heads. 0:05:08.520 --> 0:05:10.000 A lot of times there's you know, you can you 0:05:10.080 --> 0:05:11.840 know this and white and white dude's heads. There was 0:05:11.880 --> 0:05:14.640 like there was Native Americans and they kind of like stopped, 0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:15.920 do you know what I mean? 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:19.040 People view it like they like stopped. And it became 0:05:19.720 --> 0:05:22.440 that something different happened. So if I say to you 0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:24.000 historically and you're like, what do you mean, I mean, 0:05:24.040 --> 0:05:25.960 I don't know, like a while ago or you know, 0:05:26.560 --> 0:05:33.159 but in this question, I mean historically, how serious how 0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:35.320 serious were the macaw about whaling? 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:37.160 You know what I mean? Like, how did it? How 0:05:37.160 --> 0:05:38.960 did it fit into the seasonal? 0:05:40.640 --> 0:05:40.800 Well? 0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:43.240 If I can just start out, yeah, it was it was. 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:47.599 It was the focal point of our society. Okay, it 0:05:47.640 --> 0:05:50.839 was our main nutritional It's how we fed our people. 0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:51.280 Got it. 0:05:51.400 --> 0:05:53.200 You know, we have no big rivers out there that 0:05:53.920 --> 0:05:55.560 are lush with salmon or anything. 0:05:55.640 --> 0:05:55.960 Okay. 0:05:56.120 --> 0:05:59.679 So so we were out on that ocean and whales 0:05:59.680 --> 0:06:03.279 were women there and we yeah, so we understood we 0:06:03.360 --> 0:06:07.040 harvested them for an nutritional source. And then it became 0:06:07.080 --> 0:06:10.039 a source of wealth for us in the society that 0:06:10.080 --> 0:06:11.760 we built for over thousands of years. 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:14.560 Explain that when you say wealth as a trade item, 0:06:14.880 --> 0:06:15.800 absolutely yeah. 0:06:15.839 --> 0:06:18.320 And what components of a whale would be used? What 0:06:18.360 --> 0:06:20.520 components of a whale would be? I mean I can 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:22.960 imagine the parts that would be used internally, But what 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:26.799 would be an item that you could that you could 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:29.760 barter with or that you could monetize off a whale? 0:06:30.080 --> 0:06:32.440 What whale oil is is one that's you get a 0:06:32.440 --> 0:06:34.960 lot of whale oil from. 0:06:34.200 --> 0:06:37.560 An interior Like I imagine like interior people would want it, 0:06:38.080 --> 0:06:41.359 right because they didn't have something, they didn't have an equivalent. Correct, Yeah, 0:06:41.400 --> 0:06:42.520 I got it, I got it. 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:47.800 And then how how we're like how we're whales hunted? 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:51.240 I mean physically? Like how were they hunted? If you 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:53.360 went back just pick like pick a tile. Let's let's 0:06:53.360 --> 0:06:53.760 say we go. 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:54.240 Back to. 0:06:56.440 --> 0:06:58.840 I don't know, two hundred years ago, three hundred years ago, 0:06:59.360 --> 0:07:01.880 how was a way elk caught out. 0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:05.279 Of a We'd go out in a cedar dugout canoe. Okay, 0:07:05.920 --> 0:07:09.120 you'd have you know, seven paddlers or so on in 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:12.520 that canoe, and everyone had their own their own job. 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:16.160 Someone harpooned it. Someone steered steered the canoe and and 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:20.240 then you had your paddlers and we had a The 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:24.720 harpoon was made of you would shaft, and it was 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:27.280 in three pieces, so it would come apart. You know, 0:07:27.320 --> 0:07:30.760 we probably learned that the hard way, right, probably stabbed 0:07:30.760 --> 0:07:34.520 a whale with a one that wasn't in three pieces, 0:07:34.560 --> 0:07:36.920 and that whale rolled around probably smacked the heck out 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:37.280 of people. 0:07:37.320 --> 0:07:41.640 Oh yeah, that's a good point. Many imagine that, right, Yeah. 0:07:41.560 --> 0:07:45.720 So it comes apart. And the harpoon tip was made 0:07:45.720 --> 0:07:52.520 of muscleshell really, yeah, muscleshell and and elk, what part 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:54.160 of the bone? I need a little help on that. 0:07:54.600 --> 0:07:57.480 Yeah, like the vow the toggle close to that mic bud, 0:07:57.640 --> 0:07:58.520 Oh it is the toggle. 0:07:58.960 --> 0:08:03.200 The Yeah, that muscleshell would be like like barbs or 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:04.800 prongs embedded into that thing. 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:05.800 Ah. 0:08:05.880 --> 0:08:06.080 Yeah. 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:09.200 It was shape shaped just like a like a regular harpoon. 0:08:09.280 --> 0:08:11.640 I guess like broad tip. 0:08:11.720 --> 0:08:13.120 But but it's staying there good. 0:08:13.320 --> 0:08:16.160 Yeah, I would stay in there good. Yeah. And it 0:08:16.240 --> 0:08:19.760 was tempered and age and and and hardened. So yeah, 0:08:19.800 --> 0:08:21.120 there's a lot that went into it. 0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:23.760 Do you do you well? 0:08:23.880 --> 0:08:25.240 Two things? 0:08:25.760 --> 0:08:28.680 What what was there one specific type of whale or 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:31.160 did you get opportunities on multiple kinds of whales in 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:33.640 your ear? I know now the focus is on gray whales. 0:08:34.080 --> 0:08:35.520 Yeah, we're going to. 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:37.280 Talk a lot about gray whales. But but. 0:08:38.800 --> 0:08:41.360 Like your people might have had that that was the 0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:44.240 one they wanted, or was there other kinds of whales 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:46.080 that might be targeted at different times? 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:48.600 Yeah, there's definitely a lot of different whales we hunted. 0:08:48.600 --> 0:08:51.200 Eat your big old whale, right, whales we hunted really 0:08:51.240 --> 0:08:55.079 gray whales, hump backs, anything that slam pretty much. But 0:08:55.200 --> 0:08:56.240 gray whales. 0:08:57.640 --> 0:08:59.360 Were the tastiest, is that right? 0:08:59.440 --> 0:09:01.000 Yeah, it was a preferred whale. 0:09:01.080 --> 0:09:02.679 It was a preferred whale. I just I think due 0:09:02.679 --> 0:09:06.080 to the abundance also, and the migration patterns were near shore. 0:09:06.880 --> 0:09:10.600 Humpo humpbacks are a little further offshore. We did target 0:09:10.600 --> 0:09:11.920 those also, do you. 0:09:11.920 --> 0:09:16.319 Know in the like in your traditions or were a 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:22.440 lot of dudes killed hunting whales? I business? 0:09:23.480 --> 0:09:25.800 So that's what that's what it is, and that that leads, 0:09:25.880 --> 0:09:31.240 you know, into the preparation and stuff. So you know, essentially, yeah, 0:09:31.280 --> 0:09:33.240 you are preparing for death when you're training with the 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:36.520 you know, the guys in the canoe and it's a 0:09:36.640 --> 0:09:40.480 and it's a understand. I'm uh, it's the biggest creature 0:09:40.480 --> 0:09:45.520 on earth. Then they have they have they want to 0:09:45.520 --> 0:09:51.320 live also, so they have a wild side and uh yeah, 0:09:51.360 --> 0:09:52.800 it's it's it's it's pretty scary. 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:54.480 It could be dangerous, it could be very dangerous. 0:09:54.480 --> 0:09:57.240 You know, you mentioned like Vegas. It's it's the thing 0:09:57.240 --> 0:09:59.560 I always bring up to my kids. Is it like 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:01.960 all you know, kids are always tripped out about dinosaurs 0:10:02.000 --> 0:10:02.439 and stuff. 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:09.800 But the biggest animal to ever live on earth is now? Yeah, 0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:13.000 you know, like a blue whale as big as it 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:15.600 seems like, you know, these like dinosaur statues and stuff 0:10:15.600 --> 0:10:18.120 are is like the biggest critter is there now You're like, 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:20.679 you go see damn thing like big whales? 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:24.720 You know, yeah, what does what like what does a 0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:25.280 gray whale? 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:29.680 What is that? What does that thing weigh? Twenty so 0:10:29.800 --> 0:10:32.439 about twenty seven hundred pounds on average or so that 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:35.200 we kind of target that general area. It's about thirty 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:37.960 thousand pounds about twenty seven. 0:10:38.360 --> 0:10:40.520 Yeah, twenty thirty thousand pounds. 0:10:40.600 --> 0:10:41.840 Yeah, it's about a ton of foot. 0:10:42.080 --> 0:10:46.280 Yeah, of the length one ton per foot. 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:49.080 The main focus of our conversation is going to be 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:51.480 like the resumption of whaling. 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:54.440 Okay, and your guys fights with now you know, maybe 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:58.040 don't use the word fight. You guys negotiations with the 0:10:58.080 --> 0:11:02.719 American government and others about what you're allowed to do 0:11:02.760 --> 0:11:05.800 by the treaty you signed with the American government, right like, 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:07.640 and whether or not you can do it and what 0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:08.440 it takes to do it. 0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:14.839 But for background, walk me through, like did how did 0:11:14.880 --> 0:11:18.280 whaling wind down? And when did it wind down? Like 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:20.960 when did it when did it go from being an 0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:25.319 annual occurrence to being a thing that faded out? What 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:27.160 was the process of it of it going away? 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:32.480 Well, in the early nineteen hundreds, you had commercial whaling 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:34.040 was really ramping up around. 0:11:33.800 --> 0:11:35.160 The world, I see, right, so. 0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:40.360 Our whaling, our whalers at that time were noticing it 0:11:40.400 --> 0:11:44.240 was harder and harder to do our traditional hunts. So 0:11:44.320 --> 0:11:47.160 in the nineteen twenties we made the decision on our 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:53.200 own to not whale anymore because they just weren't in 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:54.320 our area the way they. 0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:57.800 Used to be because of the impact of the commercial whalers, right, yes, 0:11:58.040 --> 0:12:01.280 like the moby Dick type dudes, right like rendering you know, 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:04.559 killing them like industrially. 0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:07.760 Industrially you know, the big old harpoons on the big ships. 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:10.360 Rendering all that oil and selling all that oil in 0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:11.640 Massachusetts and stuff. 0:12:11.720 --> 0:12:12.000 Yeah. 0:12:12.160 --> 0:12:15.600 Yes, so that was whittling away the whale population. 0:12:15.960 --> 0:12:19.000 Yeah, I was whittling that away. And so we stopped 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:22.079 in the late nineteen twenties. We had our last last 0:12:22.080 --> 0:12:24.480 harvest before we did the one in ninety nine. And then, 0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:27.240 you know, it took the world a while to catch up. 0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:31.319 You know, twenty years later you get the Whaling Convention 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:37.960 Act and those agreements, those international agreements to start, you know, 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:40.520 trying to be more responsible with you know, with the 0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:42.040 stocks that are around the world there. 0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:44.640 And when you say it took the world a while 0:12:44.679 --> 0:12:47.160 to catch up, you mean it took the world a 0:12:47.240 --> 0:12:51.240 while to respond to the industrial slaughter. 0:12:51.600 --> 0:12:54.040 Yes, to regulate it, to regulate like they let it 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:57.000 get it got bad. Yeah, it got bad. Yeah, I 0:12:57.000 --> 0:12:59.959 mean populations were at near extinction. 0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:04.280 Do you do you guys have much idea when the 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:12.319 when the disease epidemics came from Europeans, did it did 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:16.040 those diseases hit did they like hit the macaw like 0:13:16.200 --> 0:13:20.680 suddenly and hard where there were where there was just 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:23.920 huge losses of people or did it? Was it with 0:13:24.000 --> 0:13:26.120 you guys? Was it the slower thing that played out 0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:26.960 over centuries? 0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:29.880 No, it was it hit us hard. We had two 0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:36.920 major smallpox epidemics in our communities, you know, one in 0:13:37.000 --> 0:13:40.840 the I believe his eighteen twenties, and then another in 0:13:40.880 --> 0:13:45.720 the in the late eighteen forties. Okay, took out ninety 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:46.800 percent of our population. 0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:48.160 Huh. 0:13:48.400 --> 0:13:51.600 And and then what was left from from that ninety 0:13:51.640 --> 0:13:55.400 percent negotiated the treaty in the Abay. 0:13:56.440 --> 0:13:59.280 Yeah, that's the thing, man, that's the thing. I talked 0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:00.320 to people a lot about that. 0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:03.640 I just don't think like a lot of Americans can't 0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:08.600 picture it, you know, it can't picture that kind of loss. 0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:10.720 But the only way to really get there is just 0:14:10.760 --> 0:14:12.880 to try to imagine in like I don't know, pick 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:15.880 whatever town you live in, right, Like, picture that you 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:20.080 live in Toledo, Ohio, right, and then imagine that all 0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:22.320 of a sudden, over the course of a couple of years, 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:30.440 of that nine out of ten of the people in Toledo, 0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:34.680 Ohio die. 0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:36.520 Or wherever, right, nine out of ten of them die. 0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:42.720 And you look at your broader family structure, your siblings, cousins, aunts, uncles, grandparents, 0:14:43.320 --> 0:14:45.320 nine like if you count them all up and you go, 0:14:45.400 --> 0:14:48.240 I have twenty family members. 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:54.960 Okay, eighteen are now dead. Now, come tell me about 0:14:55.000 --> 0:14:59.080 your family, and come tell me about how your family functions. Right, 0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:02.200 Like people cannot pick trip man, Yeah, people can't picture it. 0:15:02.320 --> 0:15:05.320 No. I appreciate that because you know, when I thought 0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:07.720 about that, you know, growing up and reaching the age 0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:10.320 I'm at now, and what we have as a tribe, 0:15:10.360 --> 0:15:12.000 and how rich we are in our language and our 0:15:12.040 --> 0:15:15.800 culture and our traditions. You know that ten percent that 0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:19.280 that survived that you know, gave that to us, They 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:23.440 carried that on. Yeah, I think how rich was our 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:25.480 society before that? 0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:29.680 Oh that the ten ten percent remains of riches because 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:32.760 think about what gets lost. Yeah, huge things get lost, man, 0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:36.000 all the history. And that's the thing is especially with 0:15:36.000 --> 0:15:44.040 without now everything gets so captured, captured, written word right, captured, 0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:46.360 you know, captured and banked in the internet. But like 0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:48.560 all of a sudden, like eighty percent of the narratives 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:51.600 are gone, eighty percent of the well, yeah, but we 0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:54.680 came from here, and your grandfather was this and right, 0:15:55.120 --> 0:15:58.920 and that's all wiped. Yeah, you got and you got of. 0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:00.600 Those ten you got two people will left to be like, 0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:02.480 here's what I think happened, but I'm not really sure. 0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:05.920 People dose sight. I mean, it's it's too hard to comprehend. 0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:08.000 People flipped out during the COVID pandemic. 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:10.200 Oh yeah, you know what I mean, like people like 0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:12.800 like people in wherever, like really hard to hit places 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:15.040 like people flipping out in Manhattan because I don't know 0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:17.760 what it was percentage, but like it was overwhelming the Morgues. 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:23.520 It's like, dude, that is nothing, nothing compared, nothing compared 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:27.520 to what was happened to native communities of smallpox, right, 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:30.400 you know it to to get the equivalent, you'd have 0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:32.360 had to go into Manhattan and remove I don't know, 0:16:32.400 --> 0:16:35.840 ten million people in Manhattan and you'd be like, that 0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:37.760 would be that would give you an idea? What will 0:16:38.000 --> 0:16:40.720 That'll give you an idea? What went on? Sure, it's staggering. 0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:45.640 So I'm sorry. Even even with those diseases we we 0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:47.720 as MCAU, we did we did a really good job 0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:50.240 at avoiding them for quite a while because we would 0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:53.320 catch wind of it depending on where it was, and 0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:55.720 we would keep people out of certain areas and we'd 0:16:55.880 --> 0:16:57.200 steer clear of certain areas. 0:16:57.200 --> 0:16:57.880 And was that right? 0:16:57.960 --> 0:17:03.960 Yeah, and like tour just you know, eighteen the eighteen 0:17:04.000 --> 0:17:07.800 fifties is when Ted Stevens actually caught wind of you know, 0:17:07.960 --> 0:17:10.680 the the causer hit hard right now, smallpox hit him, 0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:12.520 and that's kind of when he's like, let's let's go 0:17:12.560 --> 0:17:15.200 get this treaty. That's kind of when he came out. 0:17:15.400 --> 0:17:18.800 And you can even see in the notes that even 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:22.280 a year ago we weren't the big chiefs. We wouldn't 0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:24.240 have been the one signing that we're here now. And 0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:26.840 there was a lot of sadness in the notes because 0:17:26.840 --> 0:17:29.119 they've lost so many of their family and loved ones. 0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:30.240 Oh was that right? 0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:33.000 That's that's instant, because that dude ain't a lot of 0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:35.520 treaties in the Pacific Northwest Stevens did. 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:38.160 He kind of made like a big run man, so. 0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:40.400 He knew he couldn't take us when we were full 0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:44.120 forcing him before disease hit us. But he's like, oh, 0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:45.960 he caught wind, and he's like, you know, it's probably 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:48.960 a good time going to negotiate. 0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:53.280 Huh. These guys are in a weakened position. Yeah, militarily. 0:17:54.240 --> 0:17:58.719 Yeah, And even with the during the COVID like we 0:17:58.800 --> 0:18:02.480 avoided you know, we lucked down the reservation. He was 0:18:02.560 --> 0:18:05.560 the chairman, needed a really good job. He kept we 0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:09.080 avoided a case for sure. He didn't. How long was 0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:10.480 it until there was finally one? 0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:14.760 And in the reservations it was about three four months that. 0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:17.359 You guys held out for that long without any infections. 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:19.960 Yeah, yeah, we didn't. No loss of life. 0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:24.119 There's you know, as you know, well we have maybe 0:18:24.119 --> 0:18:29.400 seven reservations in Montana, five or seven, and during the pandemic, 0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:33.280 you know, there was you'd go down to the Chimerical 0:18:33.359 --> 0:18:38.600 was Northern Cheyenne or the Crow Reservation. There's basically signs 0:18:38.600 --> 0:18:42.479 like don't stop on the highway passing through. And I 0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:44.879 was like, you know, to my kids, I was like, man, 0:18:44.880 --> 0:18:47.840 you gotta understand the history here of like pandemics. That 0:18:47.920 --> 0:18:51.440 means something totally different, That means something totally different Native 0:18:51.440 --> 0:18:53.679 communities man, because they got a fresh memory of that stuff, 0:18:53.720 --> 0:18:54.720 you know, right. 0:18:56.640 --> 0:18:56.920 After. 0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:02.080 So well, let me ask about that. The quitting whaling 0:19:02.720 --> 0:19:07.520 was it would you describe it more like more like 0:19:07.560 --> 0:19:09.480 it just wasn't worth it and it faded or was 0:19:09.480 --> 0:19:11.120 it a formal decision to quit? 0:19:12.720 --> 0:19:16.000 It was a formal decision, you know, like I mentioned 0:19:16.520 --> 0:19:21.879 in the introduction, it defined our societal structure. Yeah, and 0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:26.800 we still have that reverence for it today. It's that important. 0:19:26.840 --> 0:19:30.520 That's why you know, we went seventy years between a 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:35.520 harvest and kept that knowledge and you know that how too, 0:19:36.080 --> 0:19:41.600 and how we pass that on, made that available to 0:19:41.920 --> 0:19:44.360 people so we could carry that on through all those 0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:48.520 generations that span that seventy years. 0:19:48.680 --> 0:19:49.040 Yeah. 0:19:49.200 --> 0:19:51.680 Yeah, like my lifetime, I would have loved to be 0:19:51.760 --> 0:19:54.359 a whaler. You know, I'm fifty four now, you know 0:19:54.440 --> 0:19:56.439 it's not likely in the cards for me. 0:19:56.600 --> 0:20:00.280 But oh is that right? Yeah, well we'll talk about that. 0:20:00.680 --> 0:20:07.080 So, so almost a century later. So if you imagine that 0:20:06.520 --> 0:20:11.720 the Macaw quit whaling in let's say nineteen twenty that 0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:13.280 that's close. 0:20:13.359 --> 0:20:16.440 At twenty I don't know, it's like twenty seven, okay, nineteen. 0:20:16.119 --> 0:20:21.800 Twenty seven, and then fast forward up to the lead 0:20:21.920 --> 0:20:25.200 up to the to the next whale that was harvested 0:20:25.200 --> 0:20:28.280 by your your tribe, and that whale was harvested. 0:20:28.359 --> 0:20:31.120 What you're nineteen ninety nine. 0:20:31.320 --> 0:20:39.560 Ninety nine, Walk me through the years prior to ninety nine, 0:20:39.920 --> 0:20:41.359 like what needed to happen? 0:20:41.800 --> 0:20:45.200 Because when you quit, when you guys quit, you quit 0:20:45.240 --> 0:20:46.400 because you decided to quit. 0:20:47.160 --> 0:20:51.040 But you weren't at liberty to decide to start, right, 0:20:51.080 --> 0:20:54.119 I mean a lot happened right right. You could just 0:20:54.119 --> 0:20:55.040 be like, hey, we're going out. 0:20:56.840 --> 0:20:59.520 Yeah, well because this whole world had been built up 0:20:59.560 --> 0:21:02.360 around in mammals, right, this whole protection world. So what 0:21:02.480 --> 0:21:04.480 did that look like to to say like, hey man, 0:21:04.480 --> 0:21:07.800 we're going to go We're going to resume our treaty rights. 0:21:08.160 --> 0:21:11.280 There's enough whales now we're going to go whaling. Like 0:21:11.600 --> 0:21:13.840 who do you pick up the phone? You know, I 0:21:13.880 --> 0:21:14.840 mean like who do you call? 0:21:15.119 --> 0:21:15.320 Right? 0:21:15.920 --> 0:21:17.320 When do you want to go get a whale? 0:21:17.680 --> 0:21:21.040 Well, I mean for for tribal nations are our first call. 0:21:21.320 --> 0:21:24.440 You know. Our main contact in the federal government is 0:21:24.520 --> 0:21:27.760 Department of Interior I BUA Indian Affairs. Yeah, you know, 0:21:27.880 --> 0:21:32.840 so it's their responsibility to advocate for those rights for us. 0:21:32.840 --> 0:21:36.600 In the federal government there are trustee is what we say. 0:21:37.440 --> 0:21:41.040 And and then from Interior, you know, the whaling falls 0:21:41.119 --> 0:21:44.400 under Department of Commerce, so you know through Noah Nation 0:21:44.520 --> 0:21:47.920 Marine Fisheries and and those regulations. You know, we're set up, 0:21:48.440 --> 0:21:50.960 you know by different federal acts like the Marine Mammal 0:21:51.000 --> 0:21:54.720 Protection Act. So in seventy two that Marine Mammal Protection 0:21:54.800 --> 0:21:58.399 Act was passed and the gray whales were listed, you know, 0:21:58.440 --> 0:22:01.720 as an endangered species as well. You know, the ESA 0:22:01.760 --> 0:22:07.840 comes into play. And so when in the nineties, when 0:22:08.400 --> 0:22:12.080 the population was recovering so well, you know you're getting 0:22:12.600 --> 0:22:17.520 some pretty high you know, at least record numbers in 0:22:17.720 --> 0:22:22.159 in our lifetime, you know, near thirty thousand whales in 0:22:22.200 --> 0:22:26.040 the nineties, and and so it was proposed to be delisted. 0:22:26.200 --> 0:22:28.560 You know that that was the trigger for us. That's 0:22:28.560 --> 0:22:30.879 what did it. Yes, I got chah. The dlisting of 0:22:30.960 --> 0:22:35.040 the eastern North Pacific grey whale population was our trigger 0:22:35.119 --> 0:22:38.360 to resume I see our treaty. 0:22:38.119 --> 0:22:39.200 Right, got it? 0:22:39.440 --> 0:22:39.640 Yeah? 0:22:39.720 --> 0:22:43.800 But why this is probably ultra complicated question. 0:22:47.920 --> 0:22:50.320 If you have an agreement, as if you have an 0:22:50.320 --> 0:22:53.879 agreement as a sovereign nation, you have agreement with the government, right, 0:22:53.960 --> 0:22:55.840 and you have certain levels of autonomy. 0:22:58.800 --> 0:22:59.880 Would it have like. 0:23:01.520 --> 0:23:04.919 Were you be were you guys being nice by bringing 0:23:04.960 --> 0:23:06.760 it up? Like why couldn't it be the just one 0:23:06.840 --> 0:23:07.800 day you just went and did it. 0:23:09.080 --> 0:23:11.359 No, you're you're right on that. That was a discussion 0:23:11.480 --> 0:23:12.680 of leadership at that time. 0:23:12.800 --> 0:23:13.680 Yeah. 0:23:13.760 --> 0:23:18.160 Actually, Daniel's father and my older brother, you know, he 0:23:18.200 --> 0:23:21.360 was He was part of those discussions as as well 0:23:21.400 --> 0:23:25.679 as his grandfatherly Ben Johnson, the former chairman. Internal discussions, 0:23:25.720 --> 0:23:30.720 internal discussions about that, you know, should what prevents us 0:23:30.760 --> 0:23:33.120 from just going It's in our treaty, it's not listed, 0:23:34.240 --> 0:23:36.720 you know, but yeah, we I would say, we were 0:23:36.760 --> 0:23:39.680 being nice and we you know, we met with the 0:23:39.720 --> 0:23:43.080 federal government and you know, the federal government has these 0:23:43.240 --> 0:23:46.440 international agreements in place, right they they work with the 0:23:46.560 --> 0:23:50.040 International Whaling Commission, they're a member of it, and so 0:23:52.440 --> 0:23:54.480 they wanted us to be a part of that process, 0:23:54.520 --> 0:23:57.720 like the Alaskan Eskimos on the North Slope. 0:23:57.840 --> 0:23:58.280 Yeah. 0:23:58.359 --> 0:24:01.560 So so we we agreed to do that. You know, 0:24:01.600 --> 0:24:06.240 we went and advocated for a quota, worked with the 0:24:06.480 --> 0:24:10.159 Alaskan Eskimos and the Chacokins in Russia to get an 0:24:10.160 --> 0:24:13.960 aboriginal subsistence whaling quota through the International Whaling Commission. And 0:24:14.040 --> 0:24:16.720 what kind of quote are you looking for? One, Well, 0:24:16.960 --> 0:24:19.120 they do it over over multiple years. 0:24:19.600 --> 0:24:19.959 Yeah. 0:24:20.040 --> 0:24:23.159 So it was like at that time, it was it 0:24:23.200 --> 0:24:26.080 was up to five whales in any given year over 0:24:26.119 --> 0:24:28.520 a like a five six year period. 0:24:28.680 --> 0:24:32.440 Okay, yeah, and you guys hit enormous resistance. 0:24:33.040 --> 0:24:35.560 Absolutely, yes, where. 0:24:35.840 --> 0:24:42.479 In that first go around back in the nineties, was 0:24:42.480 --> 0:24:45.280 was the was government resistance or social resistance? 0:24:46.840 --> 0:24:47.679 There was strongest. 0:24:48.480 --> 0:24:51.520 I think the social resistance was strongest. But that translates 0:24:51.520 --> 0:24:54.359 into government resistance, right you know, I see, Yeah, you know, 0:24:54.520 --> 0:24:58.359 things get you know, where's the political temperature of my 0:24:58.480 --> 0:25:03.080 constituents if you're politician in d C. And how much 0:25:03.160 --> 0:25:06.600 do I want to support this issue? Right, so those 0:25:06.600 --> 0:25:11.240 things come into play. But it was pretty bad for 0:25:12.080 --> 0:25:13.959 you know, these guys when they were when they were 0:25:14.000 --> 0:25:18.840 younger in school, you know, there were our community was 0:25:18.840 --> 0:25:22.720 getting threatened, you know, physically threatened, bomb threats in our 0:25:23.520 --> 0:25:26.640 in our school by who though you know that there 0:25:26.680 --> 0:25:30.320 were it's mainly your animal welfare groups. 0:25:30.440 --> 0:25:33.359 Yeah. So the but as I'm saying, so the organizations 0:25:33.359 --> 0:25:36.480 were doing this, was it like like Greenpeace or what 0:25:36.600 --> 0:25:38.800 were the organizations that were coming after or was it 0:25:38.880 --> 0:25:40.360 just like crack pot individuals. 0:25:40.720 --> 0:25:43.159 There was a lot of crackpot individuals. But there was 0:25:43.200 --> 0:25:47.160 one organization, Sea Shepherd Society. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that 0:25:47.160 --> 0:25:51.000 that was the main one that that you know, they're 0:25:51.080 --> 0:25:54.280 they're very aggressive and and you know they'd send their 0:25:54.280 --> 0:25:57.119 ships into our harbor that we have and get on 0:25:57.160 --> 0:26:00.880 the loud speaker and you know, just start putting insults 0:26:00.880 --> 0:26:05.320 out there to our community, which really yeah, yeah, we 0:26:05.359 --> 0:26:07.320 had to get a federal restraining order on them and 0:26:07.800 --> 0:26:10.760 did you really and the coast Guard enforced that and 0:26:12.119 --> 0:26:15.000 eventually kept them away. But yeah, it wasn't good for 0:26:15.040 --> 0:26:15.399 a while. 0:26:15.840 --> 0:26:18.840 They were coming into your bay, into your harbor. Yes, 0:26:19.440 --> 0:26:25.199 in a in a ship, I mean obviously, yes, huh. 0:26:24.040 --> 0:26:27.359 And you guys, you guys. Never you guys. It didn't 0:26:27.359 --> 0:26:31.320 ever blow into like fistfights and brawls and stuff. 0:26:31.800 --> 0:26:36.320 Now that there was some very very close I guess 0:26:36.440 --> 0:26:39.560 encounters there was. There might have been some rock throwing 0:26:39.640 --> 0:26:42.480 and things of that nature. The community got fed up 0:26:42.520 --> 0:26:47.880 with them, right, Yeah. 0:26:43.440 --> 0:26:43.520 So. 0:26:46.160 --> 0:26:56.080 Within your community in the nineties, was there division around 0:26:56.080 --> 0:26:58.320 the idea of resuming whaling or was it pretty much 0:26:58.480 --> 0:27:01.280 unanimous within within the Macaw? 0:27:01.440 --> 0:27:02.280 Was it like, this is. 0:27:02.280 --> 0:27:03.920 Our right, this is what we're going to go do 0:27:04.080 --> 0:27:07.480 the population is strong enough to support limited harvest or 0:27:07.520 --> 0:27:09.080 was it a fight amongst you guys. 0:27:09.560 --> 0:27:12.440 No, it was. It was heavily supported. Okay, I mean, 0:27:13.040 --> 0:27:16.960 we have a need statement, you know, eighty I think 0:27:17.000 --> 0:27:20.000 in the nineties it was like eighty four eighty five 0:27:20.000 --> 0:27:22.720 percent of the community wants to go back and do that. 0:27:22.840 --> 0:27:24.119 So overwhelming overwhelming. 0:27:24.200 --> 0:27:28.080 Yeah, in our need statements we've done, we have to 0:27:28.119 --> 0:27:32.800 do those for international whaling quota that we get and 0:27:32.840 --> 0:27:35.080 that's just gone up since then. But you know that 0:27:35.080 --> 0:27:37.600 there were people that didn't want to go back to it, 0:27:37.680 --> 0:27:40.560 and we just worked through that. 0:27:42.040 --> 0:27:44.879 Did you. I mean that turned in I followed that 0:27:44.920 --> 0:27:45.360 whole thing. 0:27:47.119 --> 0:27:48.639 I forgot a lot of the details now, but I 0:27:48.640 --> 0:27:51.880 remember being very interested in it, and it turned into 0:27:53.680 --> 0:27:56.760 I mean, it turned into a media spectacle. It like 0:27:56.840 --> 0:27:59.639 everybody had an opinion about it, right, It kind of 0:27:59.680 --> 0:28:05.199 like maybe not for you guys, but for the in 0:28:05.280 --> 0:28:07.600 the normal. In the normal, like if you're just a 0:28:07.680 --> 0:28:10.720 dude that followed the news, the main thing that was 0:28:10.760 --> 0:28:16.480 reported was like was the social fight, Right, It became 0:28:16.520 --> 0:28:21.040 a news story about this this dispute that seemed to 0:28:21.080 --> 0:28:23.320 over probably maybe not from your community, but that seemed 0:28:23.320 --> 0:28:29.160 to the coverage of of the argument overshadowed any conversation. 0:28:28.720 --> 0:28:32.639 About you know, how many whales are there? What is 0:28:32.680 --> 0:28:37.520 your treaty? Right? It just it became like the story 0:28:37.560 --> 0:28:39.640 became the dispute. 0:28:39.880 --> 0:28:43.440 No, it certainly did. Yeah, it certainly did. I think 0:28:45.520 --> 0:28:47.720 you know, our local media which is out of Seattle, 0:28:47.920 --> 0:28:53.280 you know, those those stations, you know, they they covered it. 0:28:53.440 --> 0:29:00.000 Were they supported then I wouldn't say they were generally supportive, 0:29:00.400 --> 0:29:02.040 you know, I mean they were looking to get the story. 0:29:02.080 --> 0:29:06.080 They you know, they would go get on the ship 0:29:06.120 --> 0:29:10.080 with with Paul Watson and on his whatever the heck 0:29:10.200 --> 0:29:11.360 is cea Shepherd boat. 0:29:11.440 --> 0:29:12.880 Well they would cover it from that angle. 0:29:12.920 --> 0:29:15.000 They covered it from that angle as well, and and that, 0:29:15.400 --> 0:29:16.960 you know, that didn't sit well with us. You know, 0:29:17.040 --> 0:29:21.239 it's it's like, how how can we build trust and 0:29:20.720 --> 0:29:23.000 know and think we're going to get a fair shake 0:29:23.040 --> 0:29:25.440 in the media if you know, if we have those 0:29:25.480 --> 0:29:26.120 things going on? 0:29:26.200 --> 0:29:29.760 That was Yeah, but you guys, then you got it. 0:29:30.200 --> 0:29:31.200 You got a whale. 0:29:32.840 --> 0:29:35.880 When you went out to get a whale after this 0:29:36.000 --> 0:29:38.760 hundred year break and whaling, you went out to get 0:29:38.760 --> 0:29:41.400 a whale. Did you launch out and go get a 0:29:41.440 --> 0:29:45.720 whale because you got all your paperwork in order? Or 0:29:45.760 --> 0:29:47.320 did that become a point when you just went for 0:29:47.400 --> 0:29:51.760 it or did you have like your little permits and 0:29:51.760 --> 0:29:53.560 ship all printed out? You know, I mean, like what 0:29:53.560 --> 0:29:55.320 what what ultimately happened? 0:29:55.440 --> 0:29:59.800 Yeah? Well we we did uh, you know, agree on 0:29:59.800 --> 0:30:03.160 on doing a permit system with with the federal government 0:30:03.160 --> 0:30:08.240 at that time, and we'd have a permit issued, you know, 0:30:08.280 --> 0:30:09.959 for a hunt period and you know we wouldn't give 0:30:10.000 --> 0:30:13.920 specifics on a date and time, right, but it's like, hey, 0:30:13.920 --> 0:30:19.320 we're gonna there's a permit covers covers this amount of 0:30:19.320 --> 0:30:24.160 time and and then you know that permit would be 0:30:24.160 --> 0:30:26.960 issued by the government and then we'd issue our own 0:30:27.000 --> 0:30:32.600 permit to our whaling crew to go go do the hunt. 0:30:32.920 --> 0:30:34.960 So you could keep a little bit secret like when 0:30:35.000 --> 0:30:35.560 this was going. 0:30:35.480 --> 0:30:36.000 To go down. 0:30:36.120 --> 0:30:40.400 Yes, yeah, for their safety. Yeah, for their safe sure man, 0:30:40.480 --> 0:30:44.440 because it was Yeah, I mean you may have seen 0:30:44.480 --> 0:30:51.240 the video of our whalers being charged by yeah activists 0:30:51.240 --> 0:30:53.000 out there on the water on jet skis, you know, 0:30:53.080 --> 0:30:55.840 gonna looking like they're going to ram them, and you 0:30:55.880 --> 0:30:58.480 know the coast guard took them out before they took 0:30:58.520 --> 0:30:59.160 our canoe out. 0:30:59.400 --> 0:31:01.400 Yeah, because they were just waiting. 0:31:02.040 --> 0:31:05.600 Yes, So walk me through that day, Walk me through 0:31:05.600 --> 0:31:10.920 that day, Like how did that hunt day go down? 0:31:11.240 --> 0:31:13.479 I mean, like let's forget, let's forget for a minute 0:31:14.760 --> 0:31:17.640 the jet skiers and the protesters and whatnot, but like, like, 0:31:18.800 --> 0:31:22.200 how did the day play out just from a hunter's perspective, 0:31:22.200 --> 0:31:24.720 from a hunting a whaling perspective, what happened that day? 0:31:25.200 --> 0:31:27.120 But you know, Daniel, you want to go through. 0:31:26.920 --> 0:31:31.360 That or yeah, So I guess that the day before, 0:31:31.520 --> 0:31:34.560 I think they had a lot of success on approaches 0:31:35.240 --> 0:31:35.600 and so. 0:31:37.200 --> 0:31:37.600 It was. 0:31:40.160 --> 0:31:41.640 Pretty well known that they were going to get it. 0:31:41.680 --> 0:31:44.040 That next day. I think all the stars were aligning. 0:31:44.160 --> 0:31:47.920 All the prayer, training, everything, you know, came came together 0:31:48.000 --> 0:31:50.560 that day and it was kind of a a feeling 0:31:50.640 --> 0:31:54.720 that that everyone had. And so they're getting they're getting 0:31:54.720 --> 0:31:58.560 it down right. The approaches, the studying of the whales, 0:31:58.640 --> 0:32:02.360 the watching the feeding currents. 0:32:02.000 --> 0:32:02.560 And got it. 0:32:02.880 --> 0:32:04.880 And we say approaches mean just getting the boat up 0:32:04.920 --> 0:32:06.920 to it, like how to approach, how to approach? 0:32:07.560 --> 0:32:11.040 Yeah, yeah, yeah, all the teachings are coming coming together. 0:32:11.440 --> 0:32:14.400 I'm on the water was paying off and so yeah, 0:32:14.400 --> 0:32:16.920 it was. It was a magical moment when they harpooned 0:32:16.920 --> 0:32:20.600 the whale. It's ingrained in every Macau's mind. I think 0:32:21.000 --> 0:32:21.760 that day. 0:32:24.160 --> 0:32:27.880 At what at what distance to day, like, like how 0:32:27.920 --> 0:32:29.240 close do you have to approach that whale? 0:32:29.480 --> 0:32:31.120 You get to be pretty close pretty much right on 0:32:31.120 --> 0:32:31.560 top of it. 0:32:33.000 --> 0:32:36.240 Yeah, yeah, because you know, you don't normally, you know, 0:32:36.400 --> 0:32:38.200 we spend a lot of time in southeast lastas are 0:32:38.200 --> 0:32:39.080 as whales around. 0:32:39.560 --> 0:32:40.880 Yeah, you don't. 0:32:41.120 --> 0:32:43.240 You don't wind up right on top of them. No, 0:32:43.680 --> 0:32:46.280 like you know, they they gotta they know what's going on, 0:32:46.440 --> 0:32:49.440 you know, I mean they don't. 0:32:48.240 --> 0:32:48.440 You know. 0:32:48.760 --> 0:32:51.080 Yep, you're watching studying them, just like like you watch 0:32:51.160 --> 0:32:54.479 Elk and study Elk eating habits. You're watching the currents 0:32:54.560 --> 0:32:57.400 and and you're knowing where to position yourself, you know, 0:32:57.520 --> 0:32:59.160 to have a successful strike. 0:32:59.320 --> 0:33:02.720 So so you're trying to you're trying to when it 0:33:02.760 --> 0:33:05.400 goes down, I imagine you're trying to anticipate where it's 0:33:05.400 --> 0:33:05.760 gonna come. 0:33:05.760 --> 0:33:07.440 Up, where it's gonna come up. And then you're watching 0:33:07.440 --> 0:33:09.040 it's breathing. I mean, there's a there's a lot of 0:33:09.080 --> 0:33:12.440 different techniques that go into it. They're up at the 0:33:12.440 --> 0:33:15.160 surface for X amount of time and I got before 0:33:15.160 --> 0:33:17.760 they go under and then yeah, you never do when 0:33:17.800 --> 0:33:19.640 they're feeding. You never know where they're gonna come up again. 0:33:20.760 --> 0:33:25.440 And the approach, I'm guessing the approach has got to 0:33:25.480 --> 0:33:27.720 be like on its sixth position, like you're coming from 0:33:27.760 --> 0:33:28.160 behind it. 0:33:29.840 --> 0:33:32.840 There's a couple of different ways too. Yes, that is 0:33:32.880 --> 0:33:37.720 one of them. Yeah, you don't want them to you know, 0:33:37.800 --> 0:33:39.240 tail swap you something. 0:33:39.560 --> 0:33:43.680 Oh yeah, I got it. Yeah. So when they got 0:33:45.000 --> 0:33:46.000 they hand harpooned it. 0:33:46.360 --> 0:33:47.120 Hand harpooned it. 0:33:47.240 --> 0:33:51.320 Yes, And how did you guys make the how did 0:33:51.320 --> 0:33:52.480 you guys build your harpoon? 0:33:52.520 --> 0:33:53.520 Like what what? What did you do? 0:33:53.600 --> 0:33:55.160 What kind of thought did you put into that? 0:33:55.280 --> 0:33:59.120 It was the traditional harpoon. So all those techniques are 0:33:59.120 --> 0:34:02.800 passed down generations. So we quit whaling in the nineteen twenties, 0:34:02.800 --> 0:34:06.360 but we never quit teaching about it. So the importance 0:34:06.400 --> 0:34:08.400 of it, like you said, is the pinnacle of our society. 0:34:08.600 --> 0:34:11.680 So you know, we held onto those teachings. 0:34:11.920 --> 0:34:14.360 Did did people hold on to some of the equipment. 0:34:14.320 --> 0:34:15.200 The equipment also? 0:34:15.280 --> 0:34:15.480 Yeah? 0:34:15.520 --> 0:34:18.040 So yeah we do really yeah, so we have equipment 0:34:18.080 --> 0:34:19.320 from a long time ago. 0:34:19.160 --> 0:34:19.600 Do you really? 0:34:19.640 --> 0:34:20.440 Yeah? 0:34:20.560 --> 0:34:23.160 And his family had their own so oh is that right? 0:34:23.200 --> 0:34:23.399 Okay? 0:34:23.480 --> 0:34:28.359 Yeah, yeah, along with you know, ceiling and you know other. 0:34:30.280 --> 0:34:30.680 Mammals. 0:34:31.800 --> 0:34:35.080 So they they got a harpoon into it and it's 0:34:35.080 --> 0:34:37.440 got a detachable head on it or somehow it's connected 0:34:37.480 --> 0:34:38.160 to the line. 0:34:38.000 --> 0:34:41.680 The first piece yeah, yeah, or the valve whatever you 0:34:41.719 --> 0:34:42.080 call it. 0:34:42.600 --> 0:34:46.280 That gets into it, and then there's a float system. 0:34:46.719 --> 0:34:49.360 Yep, so it starts paying out. And then there's a 0:34:49.360 --> 0:34:51.400 bully tender that's sitting to the right of the harpooner 0:34:51.400 --> 0:34:53.920 and he's clipping on bullies while they're slowing down. You 0:34:54.000 --> 0:34:56.920 have to be one. The care has being unison so 0:34:57.239 --> 0:34:59.359 to turn the canoe into the right direction and get 0:34:59.400 --> 0:35:02.080 heading forwards. The line don't pay out, you know, too fast. 0:35:02.080 --> 0:35:04.440 You have a line tender buoy tender. 0:35:04.560 --> 0:35:05.760 How much line. 0:35:07.160 --> 0:35:09.160 It depends about, you know, two hundred and seventy feet 0:35:09.239 --> 0:35:09.600 or so. 0:35:09.560 --> 0:35:11.959 Or more, and you're clipping booies on as it goes, 0:35:12.040 --> 0:35:13.760 clipping bullies as it goes. Yeah. 0:35:13.880 --> 0:35:17.200 Is that thing at risk of sinking? Definitely? Yeah, So 0:35:17.239 --> 0:35:20.160 the more bullies are better. So it's not just to 0:35:20.200 --> 0:35:22.080 slow it down, but to keep it from sink. Keep 0:35:22.120 --> 0:35:25.120 it from sinking. Yes, got it should. 0:35:24.920 --> 0:35:28.080 Chat about the seal skin float system. 0:35:28.520 --> 0:35:31.600 Oh yeah, the old floats were made out of seal skins. 0:35:31.760 --> 0:35:32.000 Yeah. 0:35:32.239 --> 0:35:34.919 They were skinned in such a way where you could 0:35:34.920 --> 0:35:37.239 turn them inside out and inflate them. 0:35:37.680 --> 0:35:37.879 Huh. 0:35:38.520 --> 0:35:40.640 Yeah, they're big, you know, big floats. Some of them 0:35:40.640 --> 0:35:42.719 were you know, six feet or more. 0:35:44.160 --> 0:35:48.480 And when this was happening, there's how many people are 0:35:48.480 --> 0:35:51.160 observing this the actual hunt? 0:35:51.560 --> 0:35:54.560 Yeah, the ninety nine hunt or the ninety nine hunt. Oh, 0:35:54.600 --> 0:35:57.800 there is hundreds of people, you know, outside the zone. 0:35:57.800 --> 0:35:59.839 The close guard set a zone for. 0:35:59.800 --> 0:36:03.080 They said a perimeter, so your people could be in 0:36:03.120 --> 0:36:04.960 the perimeter, but other people had to stay out of 0:36:04.960 --> 0:36:05.360 the perimeter. 0:36:05.440 --> 0:36:08.680 Our canoe and our our chase boat. 0:36:08.800 --> 0:36:12.319 So how far was it? How far? How far out 0:36:12.320 --> 0:36:12.960 to see are you? 0:36:13.000 --> 0:36:13.640 And this has happened? 0:36:13.680 --> 0:36:15.880 Like how far from your how far from your reservation 0:36:15.960 --> 0:36:16.759 are you our? 0:36:17.280 --> 0:36:19.640 You know, they migrate past our front door? So so 0:36:19.680 --> 0:36:22.440 you just want close to home. We hind close to home. Yeah, 0:36:22.600 --> 0:36:24.680 we can also hunt, you know, out further. I see 0:36:24.719 --> 0:36:26.279 if we're going after different if we went after a 0:36:26.280 --> 0:36:27.239 different species, So. 0:36:27.719 --> 0:36:33.160 Okay, and you're and you're not, do they draw like 0:36:33.200 --> 0:36:36.680 does the government draw a line and say these waters 0:36:36.719 --> 0:36:37.600 are okay? 0:36:39.640 --> 0:36:41.480 They did do a restricted zone right. 0:36:43.600 --> 0:36:44.719 To harvest a whale in Yeah? 0:36:44.760 --> 0:36:44.960 Yeah. 0:36:45.000 --> 0:36:47.200 Yeah, Like let's say you wanted to take off, like 0:36:47.239 --> 0:36:49.040 you you would never go take off and be like, 0:36:49.040 --> 0:36:49.440 oh hey. 0:36:49.320 --> 0:36:51.759 We're gonna go whale up. We're gonna go whale up 0:36:51.800 --> 0:36:54.920 in Alaska and try that out right? They had they 0:36:54.920 --> 0:36:56.799 had to specify in some way where you can go. 0:36:57.000 --> 0:37:01.120 Well that that's a really really great question, and I 0:37:01.160 --> 0:37:03.920 got a couple answers for that. Actually there's so for 0:37:04.040 --> 0:37:07.720 that ninety nine hunt, Yes, there was a defined hunt area. 0:37:08.200 --> 0:37:10.600 We agreed to stay out of the straight a Wana 0:37:10.640 --> 0:37:14.040 Fuca and just on the Pacific Ocean, the tribe has 0:37:14.080 --> 0:37:18.239 a usual and accustom fishing area that's adjudicated that went 0:37:18.280 --> 0:37:19.120 to the Supreme. 0:37:18.800 --> 0:37:20.840 Court from that Stephens treaty. 0:37:20.960 --> 0:37:24.840 From that Stephens treaty, So we have a defined area, 0:37:25.000 --> 0:37:28.120 but that's only for fishing. We do not have a 0:37:28.160 --> 0:37:32.360 defined area for whaling. And the court was very specific 0:37:32.400 --> 0:37:36.240 about that because we in that court case, we brought 0:37:36.280 --> 0:37:40.160 forward our whaling and sealing activities as part of that 0:37:40.440 --> 0:37:44.120 and the government said, we're here to just talk about fishing. 0:37:44.160 --> 0:37:48.239 You're usual in a customed fishing area. We acknowledge that 0:37:48.280 --> 0:37:51.520 you you've gone eighty to one hundred miles off shore 0:37:52.360 --> 0:37:55.480 for whaling, but we're not going to allow that evidence 0:37:55.520 --> 0:37:56.480 as part of that case. 0:37:56.960 --> 0:38:01.720 Why did they want to punt on that question, Well. 0:38:01.880 --> 0:38:05.200 I think it's a limit to limit us. 0:38:05.280 --> 0:38:08.800 Really, it's because they're like, let's talk about the local stuff. 0:38:09.280 --> 0:38:12.399 Let's not talk about the far out stuff. Yeah, because 0:38:12.400 --> 0:38:14.440 they wanted they wanted to shrink that zone. 0:38:14.480 --> 0:38:16.320 They wanted to put us in a box. Because before 0:38:16.360 --> 0:38:23.759 that case, Macaw people we fished from California all the 0:38:23.760 --> 0:38:28.280 way up to the Burying Sea under okay, under our treaty, 0:38:28.440 --> 0:38:29.879 you know, like. 0:38:29.840 --> 0:38:33.480 People just take off and go on see sea journeys, 0:38:33.520 --> 0:38:34.120 I'm imagined. 0:38:34.200 --> 0:38:37.000 Yeah, and now we're put in a box. 0:38:37.320 --> 0:38:37.800 I got you. 0:38:38.440 --> 0:38:40.400 But they never fixed the whaling box. 0:38:40.760 --> 0:38:42.439 Yeah, there's no whaling box right now. 0:38:42.480 --> 0:38:45.000 So when ninety nine and they made a whaling box, 0:38:46.080 --> 0:38:50.480 they didn't. It wasn't as big as the fishing box, no, huh. 0:38:50.560 --> 0:38:53.840 And in our current permit, yeah, you know, we we 0:38:53.960 --> 0:38:57.320 have an agreed upon area as well, which is essentially 0:38:57.320 --> 0:39:01.200 on the Pacific Ocean, you know, out outside of the 0:39:01.200 --> 0:39:04.719 Straight of Wanda Fuca. And and then you know, there's 0:39:04.760 --> 0:39:09.799 a National Marine Sanctuary that's out there now, so there's 0:39:09.880 --> 0:39:12.880 areas of other marine mammals, you know, haul out areas 0:39:12.920 --> 0:39:15.640 for seals and sea lions and things like that that 0:39:15.680 --> 0:39:20.000 we you know, we agree to transit in a responsible 0:39:20.040 --> 0:39:21.279 manner while we're hunting, you. 0:39:21.239 --> 0:39:24.760 Know, so you've agreed to stay out of the sanctuaries. 0:39:24.320 --> 0:39:26.000 Not not out of the sanctuary, out out of it. 0:39:26.080 --> 0:39:30.680 Got no, No, the sanctuaries is within our waters, gotcha. Yeah, 0:39:30.719 --> 0:39:34.319 so we we fish and exercise our treaty in the sanctuary. 0:39:34.440 --> 0:39:34.759 Got it. 0:39:34.880 --> 0:39:37.359 And they're there. They've been a good partner and they 0:39:37.400 --> 0:39:37.960 support that. 0:39:38.120 --> 0:39:48.440 Oh okay, Yeah, the ninety nine hunt happens. It's now 0:39:48.480 --> 0:39:52.960 twenty twenty six. What why was there not a two 0:39:53.000 --> 0:39:55.320 thousand hunt, a two thousand and one hunt, two thousand 0:39:55.320 --> 0:39:56.600 and two hunt, like what happened? 0:39:57.719 --> 0:40:02.680 There was? And you Daniel can there wasn't we talk 0:40:02.760 --> 0:40:08.439 about those those hunts. But in in two thousand and two, 0:40:08.760 --> 0:40:11.480 you know, I believe there was an injunction put on 0:40:11.520 --> 0:40:15.920 our whaling. Yeah, the federal government was sued over there. 0:40:17.160 --> 0:40:19.799 You know how they put together the NIPA for our 0:40:19.840 --> 0:40:23.040 whale hunt and that they didn't didn't do a thorough job. 0:40:23.120 --> 0:40:26.680 And that was so that was in two thousand and 0:40:26.719 --> 0:40:30.600 two that they came in and said they blocked it 0:40:30.719 --> 0:40:33.480 or something correct. Yeah, but did you got did you 0:40:33.480 --> 0:40:35.840 guys have the desire to continue? Like would you have 0:40:35.920 --> 0:40:41.200 continued if that injunction hadn't happened? Was the desire there 0:40:41.200 --> 0:40:45.480 that you do an annual whale hunt. Absolutely, why did 0:40:45.520 --> 0:40:47.759 you pay attention to that? I'm not criticized, but like 0:40:48.560 --> 0:40:51.600 when the injunction came, what was the decision to abide 0:40:51.680 --> 0:40:52.000 by it? 0:40:54.760 --> 0:40:55.319 Rule law? 0:40:55.719 --> 0:40:55.880 You know? 0:40:55.960 --> 0:41:00.279 Okay, it's it's a you know, I think we our 0:41:00.840 --> 0:41:03.680 our leadership and our MACCAP people, you know, believe in that. 0:41:03.800 --> 0:41:07.680 You know, we have our own laws that we pass 0:41:07.880 --> 0:41:11.160 as well around those and things I got, yeah, things 0:41:11.160 --> 0:41:17.759 that we agree to. And so it's I don't know 0:41:17.800 --> 0:41:20.279 that whole That's why I can get into that more 0:41:20.320 --> 0:41:23.080 if you want. But I mean there there's really a 0:41:23.080 --> 0:41:25.000 lot to say around around that. 0:41:25.160 --> 0:41:28.759 You mean, around internal debates about how do we negotiate 0:41:28.800 --> 0:41:31.399 and engage with the government. Yeah, I mean, we don't 0:41:31.400 --> 0:41:32.719 need to spend tons of time on it. 0:41:32.760 --> 0:41:37.160 But you've you've exercised where you've generally been. I mean, 0:41:37.200 --> 0:41:42.279 I know this, but you've generally been trying to. 0:41:43.800 --> 0:41:48.160 Work within the constraints of the regulatory bodies in the 0:41:48.200 --> 0:41:52.480 federal government, right and haven't stepped outside of that, Like, 0:41:52.640 --> 0:41:55.239 haven't gone the vigilanti wouldn't be the right word, but 0:41:55.320 --> 0:41:56.719 haven't gone your own way on it? 0:41:57.800 --> 0:42:01.200 Well, you know, we we did have we had a 0:42:01.200 --> 0:42:04.600 group of Macaws that got frustrated with the process at 0:42:04.600 --> 0:42:09.360 one point. Yeah, but you know, so in two thousand 0:42:09.360 --> 0:42:11.080 and two, you know, I think there was an injunction 0:42:13.400 --> 0:42:18.120 and court case Anderson Verse Even's court case that took place, 0:42:18.160 --> 0:42:25.040 and you know that basically that case basically decided that 0:42:25.040 --> 0:42:28.320 the Marine Mammal Protection Act applies to the Macaw tribe, 0:42:29.000 --> 0:42:31.799 which we to this day we disagree with that. You know, 0:42:31.840 --> 0:42:34.719 we think we don't think that's a correct ruling, but 0:42:35.160 --> 0:42:40.840 we're stuck with it. And so under the Marine Mammal 0:42:40.880 --> 0:42:44.440 Protection Act, it requires you to get a waiver to 0:42:45.320 --> 0:42:50.759 take a marine mammal in our case, whaling, and then 0:42:50.800 --> 0:42:53.280 after a waiver, the government has to issue a permit. 0:42:53.960 --> 0:42:58.279 So in two thousand and four we submitted documents to 0:42:58.760 --> 0:43:02.280 start that application process for a waiver under the remount 0:43:02.280 --> 0:43:05.280 of Protection Act, and we've been in that process ever since. 0:43:05.600 --> 0:43:06.839 Got it, Yeah, got it. 0:43:07.800 --> 0:43:13.040 In the meantime, have gray whales stayed off thet We're 0:43:13.080 --> 0:43:16.480 grey whales delisted and stayed off the list. Yes, yes, 0:43:16.760 --> 0:43:18.839 so no one's put them back on the endangered species list. 0:43:21.040 --> 0:43:23.839 Can you guys explain to me I wasn't even ware 0:43:23.840 --> 0:43:29.600 of this till Nate told me, you guys get gray 0:43:29.640 --> 0:43:35.960 whales from ship strikes, you'll you'll take Is this true 0:43:36.000 --> 0:43:38.319 that you'll take possession of gray whales that are that 0:43:38.360 --> 0:43:41.440 are killed and from from getting hit by boats or 0:43:41.480 --> 0:43:42.560 tangled in nets. 0:43:42.320 --> 0:43:45.279 Or something like that. Yes, yes, we have. 0:43:45.840 --> 0:43:46.799 How does that play out? 0:43:47.000 --> 0:43:52.480 We have a process with National Marine Fisheries too, you know, 0:43:52.560 --> 0:43:54.960 to obtain those for our use. You know, we basically 0:43:55.520 --> 0:43:58.600 submit a request for this incidental take, you know, because 0:43:58.640 --> 0:44:02.080 of whatever that morey event was, whether it's a ship 0:44:02.120 --> 0:44:07.120 strike or some entanglement or and and then we have 0:44:07.160 --> 0:44:09.880 our own marine mammal biologists that that works with the 0:44:09.880 --> 0:44:12.799 tribe as well. So when that happens, you know, we 0:44:14.080 --> 0:44:18.759 decide if we want to utilize that whale, and you know, 0:44:18.800 --> 0:44:20.799 and then we tow it to our shores, and you know, 0:44:20.840 --> 0:44:23.480 we check the health of it, see how fresh it is, 0:44:23.480 --> 0:44:26.640 is it is it Is it something that's that's fresh enough? 0:44:26.680 --> 0:44:27.480 Is the whale healthy? 0:44:27.560 --> 0:44:27.719 You know? 0:44:27.840 --> 0:44:30.279 Is it something that we can you know, harvest the 0:44:30.280 --> 0:44:35.960 blubber and the meat for for consumption or you know, 0:44:36.040 --> 0:44:38.279 or do we you know, just butcher it up and 0:44:38.360 --> 0:44:41.400 utilize some of the other parts, Whether it's the bones, 0:44:41.440 --> 0:44:44.759 the vertebrae. You know, Balen, you. 0:44:44.719 --> 0:44:47.279 Know that that And is it your job to go 0:44:47.320 --> 0:44:47.719 fetch it? 0:44:48.400 --> 0:44:52.480 Yes, not mine specifically, but but yeah, but the macaw people. 0:44:52.560 --> 0:44:54.719 Right, So how does it? How does it? Because this 0:44:54.760 --> 0:44:56.919 has to happen fast, right, So how does it come 0:44:56.960 --> 0:45:00.320 to you? You know, let's say a cruise sh it's 0:45:00.360 --> 0:45:04.520 a whale, right, bam, they hit a whale. It's crippled, dying, 0:45:06.160 --> 0:45:08.840 Like the phone rings, like like, how does this play out? 0:45:10.000 --> 0:45:10.839 Just like that? It does? 0:45:11.239 --> 0:45:13.120 Get the phone, someone calls, someone calls. 0:45:13.239 --> 0:45:16.319 You know, people know that might cause or whalers in 0:45:16.320 --> 0:45:20.800 that area. And you know, there's a whole reporting system 0:45:20.840 --> 0:45:23.800 for those sort of things. So when those reports happen, 0:45:23.960 --> 0:45:27.000 you know, sometimes that call comes from a federal government 0:45:27.040 --> 0:45:30.120 official say hey, we got this report. Yeah there's this 0:45:30.200 --> 0:45:36.040 whale located off a Tattoosh Island or wherever, and so 0:45:36.120 --> 0:45:37.200 we go check it out. 0:45:37.600 --> 0:45:38.000 Got it? 0:45:38.280 --> 0:45:40.400 You send your own boats out and your own agency 0:45:40.440 --> 0:45:41.960 guys or whatever out and check it out. 0:45:42.080 --> 0:45:45.680 Yeah, you know what I saw a long time ago. 0:45:47.000 --> 0:45:49.239 Have you ever heard of you know, cook in let 0:45:49.280 --> 0:45:52.600 and turning an arm in Alaska? So we're way up 0:45:53.400 --> 0:45:59.080 turning an arm going salmon fishing, and that thing gets 0:45:59.120 --> 0:46:02.080 flooded on these huge tide swings and blue gas coming 0:46:02.080 --> 0:46:04.600 there when the salmon are running, bluegas come up into 0:46:04.640 --> 0:46:08.600 this long I know, it's like a like an arm, 0:46:08.680 --> 0:46:13.439 like a fjord kind of thing, and it's at low tide, 0:46:13.440 --> 0:46:15.560 it's a mudflat for the most part. 0:46:16.160 --> 0:46:19.040 Now high tide it's enough water for a blue whale. 0:46:20.760 --> 0:46:23.120 We're way up in that arm, twenty miles up in 0:46:23.120 --> 0:46:28.600 that arm because it's a twenty mile river, and there's 0:46:28.600 --> 0:46:31.360 these bluegas in there, and we're talking about, me and 0:46:31.440 --> 0:46:33.000 my brother talking about how. 0:46:32.800 --> 0:46:33.799 Do they get out of there. 0:46:34.440 --> 0:46:37.480 We're like, they must have a channel or something that 0:46:37.600 --> 0:46:39.920 we can't see, and we just go. 0:46:39.920 --> 0:46:41.040 About our business fishing. 0:46:42.800 --> 0:46:42.960 Well. 0:46:43.000 --> 0:46:45.760 The next day in the newspaper is that those whales 0:46:45.760 --> 0:46:49.200 that we are commenting on, like wondering how they're going 0:46:49.280 --> 0:46:52.400 to get out of that little pool they're in, are dead. 0:46:53.280 --> 0:46:55.600 And it was and I don't know what tribe did it, 0:46:55.640 --> 0:46:59.839 but they, I mean they rushed out there and got 0:46:59.840 --> 0:47:03.000 all butchered and hauled out of there like quick, you know. 0:47:03.680 --> 0:47:05.480 And I always remember being kind of impressed by that, 0:47:05.560 --> 0:47:07.920 like what a haul that was, you know, but just 0:47:08.080 --> 0:47:10.040 utilize them all when you think they normally lay there 0:47:10.040 --> 0:47:10.399 and rot. 0:47:11.760 --> 0:47:16.680 Yeah, we we try to utilize everything on that whale. 0:47:16.680 --> 0:47:21.600 And when those unfortunate things happen, Yeah, don't want those 0:47:21.600 --> 0:47:24.319 things to go to waste if we we can get 0:47:24.360 --> 0:47:24.879 them in time. 0:47:25.200 --> 0:47:27.440 How is it divided up like something like that happens. 0:47:27.440 --> 0:47:29.080 I mean it's a huge hall food. Let's say you 0:47:29.080 --> 0:47:32.040 get one, it's like uber like megafresh, or you kill 0:47:32.080 --> 0:47:35.359 one and it's real fresh. Do you and you're view, 0:47:35.440 --> 0:47:36.800 does every. 0:47:36.480 --> 0:47:39.200 Macaw have a right to some of it? Anyone that 0:47:39.280 --> 0:47:40.799 wants it has a right to it? Or does it 0:47:40.840 --> 0:47:41.720 play out differently? 0:47:43.640 --> 0:47:46.520 I think eventually Yeah, we'd like to be that. I 0:47:46.560 --> 0:47:52.520 mean there's harpooner usually has you know, can can get 0:47:52.560 --> 0:47:55.719 what he wants. But yeah, it gets divided amongst uh 0:47:56.960 --> 0:48:00.000 the crew, and then that goes to their family. 0:48:00.239 --> 0:48:02.160 So I see, Yeah. 0:48:01.760 --> 0:48:04.080 What's the most coveted part. 0:48:04.880 --> 0:48:07.600 There's parts that we do ceremonies with. Oh it's the 0:48:07.640 --> 0:48:08.720 most coveted. 0:48:08.440 --> 0:48:11.600 Yeah, guy, But what about just for regular everyday consumption? 0:48:11.680 --> 0:48:12.720 What part is the best. 0:48:12.840 --> 0:48:16.040 My favorites of skin and blubber. I absolutely love that. 0:48:16.239 --> 0:48:18.359 Ye taste like the ocean. 0:48:18.239 --> 0:48:20.399 Yeah, I've had some. I've had some of that. 0:48:21.280 --> 0:48:24.719 It's amazing. It's that's you can't beat that in my book. No, 0:48:24.920 --> 0:48:25.759 these guys might have. 0:48:26.239 --> 0:48:28.400 That's one thing you can imagine, like. 0:48:30.360 --> 0:48:33.640 Picture like sushi restaurants, like high end sushi restaurants and stuff, 0:48:33.680 --> 0:48:37.680 or people want to try interesting things. That item when 0:48:37.680 --> 0:48:39.320 they you know, like cut it with it's like almost 0:48:39.360 --> 0:48:41.160 like that French fry shape with a little bit of 0:48:41.160 --> 0:48:43.560 skin on it. That item would be the most popular 0:48:43.560 --> 0:48:45.960 thing in the world if people got turned onto that. 0:48:46.960 --> 0:48:48.719 It was amazing. We ate some right here? 0:48:49.120 --> 0:48:51.920 Oh nice? Okay, yeah, no, it's good stuff. 0:48:52.200 --> 0:48:54.560 What about the meat, the actual meat? 0:48:54.719 --> 0:48:55.759 Yeah, like the meat too. 0:48:56.000 --> 0:48:56.360 I mean it. 0:49:02.360 --> 0:49:07.280 Tastes now seal. I mean it's it's got its own taste. 0:49:07.600 --> 0:49:09.640 But I mean, like put it like with stuff that 0:49:09.640 --> 0:49:11.640 I'd be familiar with or can't you even. 0:49:11.480 --> 0:49:13.200 Draw can't draw comparison. 0:49:13.239 --> 0:49:14.520 I got it's just it's just different. 0:49:14.600 --> 0:49:18.640 It's like ocean elk. Yeah, super, it's super lean. The 0:49:18.719 --> 0:49:20.920 meat itself is super lean. It's super there's a lot 0:49:20.920 --> 0:49:24.720 of blood in it. Okay, but dark, Yeah, it's real dark. 0:49:24.800 --> 0:49:27.560 You can throw it on a smoker, you can fry 0:49:27.560 --> 0:49:29.520 it up like a steak you can do you could 0:49:29.560 --> 0:49:29.960 braise it. 0:49:30.040 --> 0:49:32.280 I mean, there's what what parts. 0:49:34.200 --> 0:49:36.720 Like I'm just imagine it's not like flaying a fish, 0:49:36.840 --> 0:49:40.960 like like you're what would be like how do you 0:49:41.000 --> 0:49:42.040 describe the parts of it? 0:49:42.080 --> 0:49:43.759 You know, Like let's say you're doing the elk, you'd 0:49:43.760 --> 0:49:44.160 be the cave. 0:49:44.160 --> 0:49:46.640 We got the backstraps, do you know what I mean? 0:49:46.719 --> 0:49:49.160 You got your grind pile, you got your ribs, you 0:49:49.160 --> 0:49:50.799 know what I mean? Like when you're doing a whale. 0:49:50.520 --> 0:49:52.239 Is it that there's parts that are good for this, 0:49:52.480 --> 0:49:53.480 parts that are good for that? 0:49:54.280 --> 0:49:57.720 I mean, I think you separate naturally, separate in the blubber. 0:49:57.960 --> 0:49:59.799 You have your blubbering skin, and then you have your meat. 0:50:00.400 --> 0:50:02.080 And so you kind of think of it as like 0:50:02.160 --> 0:50:04.720 a if you've seen some of the pictures from ninety 0:50:04.800 --> 0:50:07.000 nine or some of the other things where they're butchering 0:50:07.040 --> 0:50:09.000 in sections, yep, and you get it. 0:50:09.040 --> 0:50:09.719 You know, you take the. 0:50:09.680 --> 0:50:12.480 Section and and you kind of have this big blob 0:50:12.520 --> 0:50:14.920 of meat that has a ton of blobber. It's a 0:50:15.000 --> 0:50:18.160 ton of meat, and you know it's enough for plenty 0:50:18.239 --> 0:50:19.960 of your family if you were to cook it up 0:50:20.000 --> 0:50:21.719 for six, eight, ten people. 0:50:21.440 --> 0:50:25.640 And yeah, are guys freezing it, like freezing it up. 0:50:26.840 --> 0:50:31.680 Yeah, especially with the last kind of ship strike whales 0:50:31.680 --> 0:50:35.120 that were healthy. They were divided up and passed around 0:50:35.160 --> 0:50:38.400 the community, and people froze the blobber. People froze some 0:50:38.400 --> 0:50:41.440 of the meat, and then obviously everybody took advantage of 0:50:41.680 --> 0:50:44.400 tasting it, eating it right away, rendering the oil, smoking 0:50:44.480 --> 0:50:45.080 some of the meat. 0:50:45.600 --> 0:50:47.200 And it's cool because you see it. 0:50:47.120 --> 0:50:49.440 You know, shared around the community. Yeah, and it's just 0:50:49.480 --> 0:50:51.560 a it's it's really cool. 0:50:51.680 --> 0:50:53.440 Tell me a way, Tell me a couple of ways 0:50:53.480 --> 0:50:57.080 one might fix the meat, like cook the meat jerky. 0:50:57.360 --> 0:50:58.520 Oh, like whale jerk? 0:50:58.680 --> 0:51:01.479 Is it jerk? That was the best jerky you've ever had? 0:51:02.360 --> 0:51:02.720 Really? 0:51:02.880 --> 0:51:06.480 Yeah. Guy that used to be on the Whaling Commission, 0:51:06.680 --> 0:51:10.760 God rest his soul, Gary Ray. He he made whale 0:51:10.840 --> 0:51:14.160 jerky and it it was really good. It was the 0:51:14.160 --> 0:51:15.239 best drink I ever had. 0:51:15.600 --> 0:51:21.879 Huh. Just slice it thin, dried it, yeah, or smoked it. 0:51:22.080 --> 0:51:26.320 I mean yeah. He had a you know, traditional smokehouse 0:51:26.360 --> 0:51:29.640 and he smoked it up in there strips and he 0:51:30.320 --> 0:51:30.920 gave me some. 0:51:33.080 --> 0:51:34.319 Like yeah. 0:51:34.440 --> 0:51:34.640 Yeah. 0:51:35.120 --> 0:51:38.080 But he also makes the best salmon, candied salmon. 0:51:38.480 --> 0:51:39.359 So he knows what's up. 0:51:39.360 --> 0:51:41.960 With making the dry he was he was like he 0:51:42.040 --> 0:51:43.240 was really good at all that stuff. 0:51:43.360 --> 0:51:47.239 Is there any such thing like do you guys. 0:51:49.440 --> 0:51:51.880 Do you guys grind? Do you guys make grind meat 0:51:52.320 --> 0:51:55.240 from deer and elk and stuff? Would anybody ever grind 0:51:55.320 --> 0:51:56.000 up whale meat? 0:51:57.800 --> 0:51:59.840 I don't think anybody's thought of it, like. 0:51:59.880 --> 0:52:02.120 A whale burger. It would be like that kind of meat. 0:52:02.239 --> 0:52:05.960 It's interesting too because of the you know, how you know, 0:52:05.960 --> 0:52:08.000 you have your your elk tally, you have your elk 0:52:08.040 --> 0:52:11.960 fan binds really well. Yeah, keep your grinder cold, you 0:52:12.040 --> 0:52:15.440 grind your meat, add your fat, it stays really well. 0:52:15.960 --> 0:52:21.920 Imagine whale blubber, Oh would melt o such a lower temperature, 0:52:22.400 --> 0:52:24.920 and so I mean, I imagine your patty would kind 0:52:24.920 --> 0:52:25.520 of fall apart. 0:52:25.880 --> 0:52:27.840 Now I can imagine that because. 0:52:27.600 --> 0:52:31.560 If everybody was to get like distributed from a whale, 0:52:31.560 --> 0:52:34.520 you'd get about seven pounds of meat and then about 0:52:34.520 --> 0:52:37.040 one point just about two pounds of blubber. 0:52:38.000 --> 0:52:40.799 So, oh, you mean if your if your whole tribe, 0:52:41.080 --> 0:52:43.440 all the tribal membership shared a whale. 0:52:43.800 --> 0:52:46.920 It would be seven pounds apiece. That divides it out 0:52:46.960 --> 0:52:53.960 pretty good. Yeah, how is that oil? Is it stored 0:52:54.520 --> 0:52:56.840 as a liquid or a solid or how's it stored. 0:52:57.360 --> 0:52:59.680 Usually stored as a liquid. So usually it's rendered real 0:52:59.760 --> 0:53:03.719 slow render down. Sometimes some people, especially with seal, they'll 0:53:03.760 --> 0:53:06.880 smoke like a cold smoke, or they'll smoke at first, 0:53:06.960 --> 0:53:09.920 but they'll render it down into oil oil smoke the 0:53:10.000 --> 0:53:13.600 yeah blubber and then you get a smoky oil. Oh really, 0:53:13.960 --> 0:53:19.560 but you generally now people render that oil down into 0:53:19.680 --> 0:53:22.839 a like a mason jar, like the salmon that's out there. 0:53:23.560 --> 0:53:26.600 And you can keep it like that for it's a 0:53:26.600 --> 0:53:29.959 bit like ever honey and cinnamon. It don't really go bad. 0:53:30.440 --> 0:53:32.840 I got you, Yeah, I got You can freeze it, 0:53:32.920 --> 0:53:34.040 you can freeze the whale oil. 0:53:34.280 --> 0:53:34.480 Yeah. 0:53:36.200 --> 0:53:42.319 I spent some time with some cupic Eskimo guys and 0:53:42.360 --> 0:53:47.239 they would have seal oil, and I remember we would 0:53:47.280 --> 0:53:51.640 dip fish in it, just like where you're eating frozen 0:53:52.640 --> 0:53:56.960 raw frozen fish, like little chunks of like actually frozen 0:53:57.000 --> 0:53:58.240 fish dipped in the seal oil. 0:53:58.320 --> 0:54:00.000 And when you taste it, man, it would be like 0:54:00.239 --> 0:54:04.239 the real peppery, Like I can't you describe it like 0:54:04.239 --> 0:54:07.640 peppery like olive oil, Juman like a like a not 0:54:07.760 --> 0:54:08.200 a burn. 0:54:08.280 --> 0:54:09.840 But you know what I'm saying, there's like a pepper 0:54:09.920 --> 0:54:12.120 tooled Yeah, bold what what? 0:54:12.120 --> 0:54:15.400 What? How do you describe that whale oil? Is it mild? 0:54:15.800 --> 0:54:19.240 Is it like kind of grabs you when you taste it? 0:54:19.239 --> 0:54:22.400 Depends on who it is. I mean it's pretty normal, 0:54:22.520 --> 0:54:26.040 Like it's pretty mild for us. Yeah, kind of, everyone's 0:54:26.120 --> 0:54:26.799 kind of used to it. 0:54:27.120 --> 0:54:29.200 But if you handed it to some kid, like I 0:54:29.239 --> 0:54:31.960 don't like, some kid never had any kind of that stuff, 0:54:32.239 --> 0:54:33.960 would that kid be like, oh that's good. Would the 0:54:34.040 --> 0:54:36.200 kid be like, man, that is wild taste. 0:54:37.160 --> 0:54:42.160 This probably tastes like like omegas. Okay, your fish oil. 0:54:42.640 --> 0:54:44.959 Okay, so it's got like it's got that a little 0:54:44.960 --> 0:54:47.040 bit of it's got that fish oil taste to it. 0:54:47.440 --> 0:54:49.239 And how do you how are you using it? You're 0:54:49.280 --> 0:54:50.279 dipping meat in it? 0:54:51.400 --> 0:54:53.120 Yeah, I mean you could use it a ton of 0:54:53.160 --> 0:54:55.319 different ways. I'm sure there's still ways to expand to 0:54:55.360 --> 0:54:58.480 that that palette now that you know, once we get 0:54:58.520 --> 0:55:00.799 back into the mix. But I mean, really, like you said, 0:55:00.880 --> 0:55:04.719 dipping fish or even bread or different things with with 0:55:04.760 --> 0:55:05.240 your dinner. 0:55:05.560 --> 0:55:06.960 Do you ever oil a pan with it? 0:55:07.960 --> 0:55:11.240 I haven't, but I mean the reason you couldn't. 0:55:11.600 --> 0:55:12.879 You could cook with it I don't know what. 0:55:12.840 --> 0:55:15.840 The smoke temp is, to be honest, because it's rendered 0:55:15.880 --> 0:55:19.239 really low temperature. I see it's super low temperature. Ore 0:55:19.280 --> 0:55:21.920 you'll burn it got so you'll get a real like 0:55:22.120 --> 0:55:27.040 dark amber. Like you'll see first timers making like rendering 0:55:27.080 --> 0:55:28.800 whale oil and it's like real dark. 0:55:29.160 --> 0:55:31.479 And then you kind of get the older folks who are. 0:55:31.400 --> 0:55:33.680 Like, oh, they know how to keep it clean and clear, 0:55:34.200 --> 0:55:35.880 so it's like whiskey colored or something. 0:55:36.000 --> 0:55:39.359 Well, So like generally it's like like light olive oil 0:55:39.400 --> 0:55:40.239 even lighter than that. 0:55:40.560 --> 0:55:42.600 That's clear. Oh okay, it's not. 0:55:42.600 --> 0:55:45.080 I mean it's not there of being like honey. 0:55:44.880 --> 0:55:47.880 No, it's not like water, but the like the smoked 0:55:47.880 --> 0:55:51.799 seal oil kind of a little closer to like an 0:55:51.800 --> 0:55:55.280 olive oil color. Yeah, but generally it's like the clearer, 0:55:55.400 --> 0:55:57.480 the better. It's like you did a good job rendering 0:55:57.480 --> 0:55:58.399 it if it's nice and clear. 0:55:58.800 --> 0:56:04.799 Is there a does your community does your community have 0:56:05.800 --> 0:56:08.520 Is there a communal area where stuff gets done or 0:56:08.520 --> 0:56:11.640 do people would it be that hundreds of people would 0:56:11.640 --> 0:56:14.200 go home and all render oil on their own, or 0:56:14.239 --> 0:56:16.200 do you have a big spot where you just render 0:56:16.280 --> 0:56:21.160 all the oil collectively and then hand it out. 0:56:21.280 --> 0:56:23.640 Well, generally when the whale gets you know, gets pulled 0:56:23.680 --> 0:56:26.680 up right, you know, drop an elk, it's there, it's 0:56:26.680 --> 0:56:28.759 in that spot, but we pull up the whale and 0:56:28.800 --> 0:56:30.600 it kind of gets distributed there and that's where the 0:56:30.640 --> 0:56:33.200 time is. You know, everybody's hustling to make sure it's 0:56:33.760 --> 0:56:36.680 taking care of business. And then you know, wherever you 0:56:36.760 --> 0:56:40.520 take that your portion, you know, probably similar to an elk, 0:56:40.600 --> 0:56:43.399 you go home and okay, clean it up, make sure 0:56:43.400 --> 0:56:46.680 it's nice and good, and then you take your section 0:56:46.840 --> 0:56:49.000 it apart, and then you plan to do your oil. 0:56:49.200 --> 0:56:51.400 Got it, And that's that's your own business in your 0:56:51.400 --> 0:56:53.600 own area. Like it's cut up in a in a 0:56:53.640 --> 0:56:56.440 way where people that want them get some. But then 0:56:56.480 --> 0:56:57.960 if you got your chunk of meat, you go home 0:56:57.960 --> 0:56:58.279 and deal. 0:56:58.200 --> 0:56:59.640 With your chunk of meat. 0:56:59.680 --> 0:57:02.160 But say there can't be you know, I'm sure like 0:57:02.200 --> 0:57:04.200 those are some of the things that are really kind 0:57:04.200 --> 0:57:07.520 of frustrating to notice. Is you see other tribes and 0:57:07.640 --> 0:57:11.719 other places have these communal ceremonies of like they're celebrating 0:57:12.440 --> 0:57:18.560 the teaching their kids how to process these different animals. 0:57:19.040 --> 0:57:22.480 And for us to not even let alone not only 0:57:22.520 --> 0:57:24.959 be not able to whale, but not able to even 0:57:25.000 --> 0:57:29.520 engage in those ceremonies to physically show our younger kids 0:57:29.840 --> 0:57:32.400 how to do this kind of stuff, you know, And 0:57:32.480 --> 0:57:35.200 so the tribe's doing really well at you know, hey, 0:57:35.280 --> 0:57:39.120 the process of making paddles never died. Never will processes 0:57:39.160 --> 0:57:42.000 of you know, making harpoons, Like we have our Cultural 0:57:42.000 --> 0:57:46.800 and Research center that has an incredible display of all 0:57:46.840 --> 0:57:50.600 of the model, all the technology for whaling and all 0:57:50.640 --> 0:57:53.920 of those. You know, there's folks who are well detailed 0:57:54.280 --> 0:57:57.280 in you know, making your harpoons and teaching your kids 0:57:57.320 --> 0:58:01.240 too and family how to do those things. But for 0:58:01.400 --> 0:58:03.160 us to not be able to kind of you know, 0:58:03.360 --> 0:58:05.080 it's kind of like that box that year and you 0:58:05.120 --> 0:58:08.440 think about being able to have those kind of ceremonies, 0:58:08.480 --> 0:58:11.160 were like, hey, my cos's coming together like macads. But 0:58:11.200 --> 0:58:14.920 for just us to teach generations how to do this 0:58:15.000 --> 0:58:17.280 process and to get better at it, how to handle. 0:58:17.080 --> 0:58:21.439 Stuff you mentioned you guys is you guys hunt seal 0:58:21.520 --> 0:58:26.440 and porpoise. Yeah, and that's that's less like that's just 0:58:26.520 --> 0:58:30.840 kind of that's that's less like regulatory stuff involved in that. 0:58:32.560 --> 0:58:37.600 There's regulations around that. There's it's incidental take permits that 0:58:37.640 --> 0:58:42.479 we get issued. You know, we work with National Marine 0:58:42.480 --> 0:58:46.280 Fishery Service again and our Marine mammal biologists. You know, 0:58:46.440 --> 0:58:49.480 if we do any any type of incidental take what 0:58:51.560 --> 0:58:52.919 gets caught up in fishing gear. 0:58:54.480 --> 0:58:56.440 So that would be how you'd wind up with one, right, 0:58:56.880 --> 0:58:57.160 got you? 0:58:57.480 --> 0:59:01.240 And then we there's a reporting system that we have. 0:59:01.200 --> 0:59:04.680 To report that if you have listen, if you have 0:59:04.720 --> 0:59:07.880 a porpoise, what is that porpoise good for it? Would 0:59:07.920 --> 0:59:10.480 you use it exactly how you use the whale? Pretty 0:59:10.480 --> 0:59:13.720 similar blubber skin, meat oil. 0:59:14.160 --> 0:59:15.720 They actually do have backstraps. 0:59:17.120 --> 0:59:18.440 I've heard it's very good. 0:59:18.680 --> 0:59:20.120 Yeah, say, very good tasting. 0:59:20.520 --> 0:59:21.040 You've heard that. 0:59:21.080 --> 0:59:22.680 I've heard that, but you haven't tried it. 0:59:25.920 --> 0:59:27.000 But it's good, Steve. 0:59:27.320 --> 0:59:29.760 It's word is word is. It's gonna be good where 0:59:29.800 --> 0:59:30.520 it is, it's great. 0:59:30.600 --> 0:59:30.920 All right. 0:59:31.960 --> 0:59:33.720 So I want to get into the time. 0:59:33.760 --> 0:59:35.320 I want to get back to this timeline more and 0:59:35.360 --> 0:59:37.760 try to get like where the where the situation stands 0:59:37.840 --> 0:59:42.640 right now? So the injunction goes in two thousand and 0:59:42.640 --> 0:59:43.360 two thousand. 0:59:43.080 --> 0:59:45.080 And one, what was it two thousand and two. 0:59:44.920 --> 0:59:46.640 Two thousand and two, two thousand and two. 0:59:46.640 --> 0:59:51.280 The federal government know its forms Noah yous fit whatever 0:59:52.080 --> 0:59:52.960 all the agencies. 0:59:54.720 --> 0:59:55.439 It comes down. 0:59:55.480 --> 0:59:57.080 We don't need to get into the details, but basically 0:59:57.120 --> 1:00:00.160 it comes down, Hey, there's an injunction the Macaw. You're 1:00:00.160 --> 1:00:05.840 done whaling two thousand and two, but now you're talking 1:00:05.840 --> 1:00:06.840 about whaling. 1:00:06.520 --> 1:00:09.760 Again, like you're getting ready to go. You want to 1:00:09.760 --> 1:00:10.920 get everything squared away to go. 1:00:11.160 --> 1:00:14.880 What what happened this time around? 1:00:15.520 --> 1:00:20.160 So in two thousand and four, we made an application 1:00:20.880 --> 1:00:26.680 for a waiver to to go whaling under the Remammal 1:00:26.720 --> 1:00:32.480 Protection Act and there is no process for it. So 1:00:32.720 --> 1:00:34.960 we had to work with a government to develop that 1:00:35.000 --> 1:00:36.040 process as we went. 1:00:36.320 --> 1:00:38.240 Oh and then you had to ask them, Let's say 1:00:38.240 --> 1:00:40.520 a fellow wanted a waiver, what would the waiver need 1:00:40.560 --> 1:00:41.000 to look like? 1:00:41.200 --> 1:00:41.360 Right? 1:00:41.400 --> 1:00:43.440 And you got a legal team, I mean you got lawyers. 1:00:43.440 --> 1:00:46.040 We do, Like you just got lawyers getting paid to do. 1:00:46.040 --> 1:00:46.720 This kind of stuff. 1:00:46.800 --> 1:00:51.040 Yes, huh, yes we do. Yeah. And and so we've 1:00:51.040 --> 1:00:55.760 been in that process, you know since two thousand and four, 1:00:55.880 --> 1:00:58.880 since we first put in that notice. We've had to 1:00:58.920 --> 1:01:00.240 reboot it a few times. 1:01:00.440 --> 1:01:02.120 So are they just do they just kind of slow 1:01:02.160 --> 1:01:07.680 walking like they stall it? Yes, but I mean for. 1:01:07.800 --> 1:01:13.320 Years or years. Yeah, there's you know, you're you're looking 1:01:13.360 --> 1:01:16.680 at you know a lot of the both scientific and 1:01:16.720 --> 1:01:21.560 the biological information, you know, with with the whale population, 1:01:21.800 --> 1:01:30.640 and and so in the you know, in that process, 1:01:30.800 --> 1:01:33.440 the government, you know, like anybody can sue the federal government, right, 1:01:33.720 --> 1:01:35.880 So that's their real concern. It's like they don't want 1:01:35.920 --> 1:01:40.320 to get sued and lose, so they're so the slow 1:01:40.360 --> 1:01:43.040 walking is so that they're thorough on their end. No, 1:01:43.080 --> 1:01:46.640 I understand, and and yeah, that's the area and it 1:01:46.680 --> 1:01:51.560 can withstand a challenging court. Yeah, so that's that's that's 1:01:51.640 --> 1:01:54.120 part of the part of why it's been delayed so long. 1:01:54.160 --> 1:01:58.919 We think it's unreasonable, you know. And now we went 1:02:00.600 --> 1:02:04.920 we were finally issued a waiver in twenty eighteen, I believe, 1:02:05.280 --> 1:02:07.520 is that the right year, twenty twenty four the waiver 1:02:07.640 --> 1:02:12.360 for the June the waiver or we applied for the 1:02:12.360 --> 1:02:16.160 waiver in eighteen, maybe it was. 1:02:15.640 --> 1:02:18.920 We have the twenty four hundred page environmental impact statement, 1:02:19.160 --> 1:02:20.560 that's whatever. 1:02:20.720 --> 1:02:22.520 So yeah, anyway that. 1:02:22.760 --> 1:02:26.560 You guys generated a twenty four hundred page environmental impact statement. 1:02:26.280 --> 1:02:27.880 No no, uh, noah did no? 1:02:27.920 --> 1:02:31.240 It did an environmental impact statement about what would happen 1:02:31.720 --> 1:02:34.480 if you got a whale, right. 1:02:34.480 --> 1:02:39.160 Yes, so once that was done, then we would be 1:02:39.200 --> 1:02:42.640 able to apply for the waiver, granted the waiver and 1:02:42.680 --> 1:02:43.960 then goes to the permit system. 1:02:44.120 --> 1:02:44.920 Oh here's what. 1:02:45.520 --> 1:02:47.640 Here's where I'm a little bit confused. Go ahead, but 1:02:47.640 --> 1:02:48.640 I'll tell what's excusing me. 1:02:48.720 --> 1:02:54.000 Okay. So there was a alj Administrative Law judge hearing 1:02:54.080 --> 1:02:59.120 on on this, and you know, we had to basically 1:02:59.120 --> 1:03:02.720 go through this court process, bring in tell the government 1:03:02.720 --> 1:03:04.040 how we're going to do the hunt, how we're going 1:03:04.120 --> 1:03:07.680 to manage it, and bring in our cultural experts and 1:03:07.720 --> 1:03:12.200 all those you know, Daniel testified in that, and the 1:03:12.280 --> 1:03:16.040 judge recommended that we be granted the waiver because that's 1:03:16.080 --> 1:03:17.840 what I was I was trying to get at earlier 1:03:18.600 --> 1:03:22.520 and in that timeline. And then you know, we're finally 1:03:22.560 --> 1:03:27.960 granted that waiver in twenty twenty four, and then in 1:03:28.040 --> 1:03:32.240 March of twenty twenty five we applied for a permit. 1:03:32.440 --> 1:03:35.160 You know, we're granted the waiver. Now you got to 1:03:35.160 --> 1:03:38.640 get a permit for how many whales? So it's for 1:03:40.920 --> 1:03:44.280 twenty up to twenty five whales over a ten year period. 1:03:44.440 --> 1:03:48.160 Okay, Yeah, So okay, because that's what I was confused about, Okay, 1:03:48.440 --> 1:03:50.720 is I was like, if you look at just the 1:03:50.760 --> 1:03:54.480 pop population demographics of Wales, which I don't understand well, 1:03:54.480 --> 1:03:58.680 but I gathered these are long lived, low fecundity creatures, 1:03:59.080 --> 1:04:00.720 but there are thousands of them. 1:04:01.120 --> 1:04:04.120 So in my mind, I'm like, how could any serious 1:04:04.200 --> 1:04:12.840 person argue that harvesting a whale a year is going 1:04:12.960 --> 1:04:17.120 to have a population level impact when you factor in 1:04:17.320 --> 1:04:20.040 that you have this mortality happening from cruise ships, you 1:04:20.080 --> 1:04:24.200 have mortality happening from entanglements, you have mortality happening from strandings. 1:04:25.640 --> 1:04:28.120 And then someone would say, but if you get one, 1:04:28.920 --> 1:04:29.959 that's gonna. 1:04:31.480 --> 1:04:33.320 That's going to tank the grey whale population. 1:04:34.440 --> 1:04:37.840 Now we agree with you. 1:04:36.200 --> 1:04:38.680 On that just seems like a heart That seems like 1:04:38.720 --> 1:04:41.640 such a weird It's like they're dying all over the place. 1:04:41.840 --> 1:04:44.280 We're talking about, oh whale. But I guess if you're 1:04:44.280 --> 1:04:48.840 looking at two point five whales a year, if you 1:04:48.880 --> 1:04:50.600 had said one whale a year, would it have been 1:04:50.640 --> 1:04:52.760 a different conversation or would it have been all the same? 1:04:52.800 --> 1:04:55.440 Bs It probably would have been all the same, being 1:04:55.680 --> 1:04:57.320 it wouldn't have changed. I don't think it would have 1:04:57.360 --> 1:05:00.720 changed anything, you know. I think I think our our opponents, 1:05:00.760 --> 1:05:04.440 our adversaries on this, you know, they're absolutists, and and 1:05:04.520 --> 1:05:11.160 so we're the way we proposed to do the hunt is, 1:05:12.960 --> 1:05:14.840 you know, the most we could most whales we could 1:05:14.840 --> 1:05:18.960 take in any any year under this waiver is two, okay, 1:05:19.120 --> 1:05:21.800 because you can't take a half a whale, right ye. So, 1:05:23.560 --> 1:05:27.560 and it's only one per hunt season. So there there's 1:05:27.600 --> 1:05:31.960 the hunt season that we're applying for is a summer fall. 1:05:32.040 --> 1:05:35.720 Hunt starts July first, goes through October thirty first. 1:05:35.800 --> 1:05:38.320 So you got like an opening day and everything. Yeah, yeah, 1:05:38.760 --> 1:05:41.200 you has like white people, You got like opening. 1:05:40.880 --> 1:05:47.640 Days and and if you know, if we harvest a 1:05:47.640 --> 1:05:51.320 whale then that's done, that permit for that period is 1:05:51.400 --> 1:05:56.520 done and we have to wait for we can't go 1:05:56.640 --> 1:05:59.560 the very next year in that hunt period. We got 1:05:59.680 --> 1:06:03.520 to wait un till the following year, oh to go. 1:06:04.440 --> 1:06:07.600 We we can also apply for a permit for a 1:06:07.680 --> 1:06:10.760 separate hunt season, which is a winter spring goes from 1:06:10.800 --> 1:06:16.160 December to through May, and we could harvest a whale 1:06:16.240 --> 1:06:19.919 during that as well. But once we harvest that whale, 1:06:19.960 --> 1:06:23.600 then that that hunt period's done. So there's we wouldn't 1:06:23.600 --> 1:06:26.920 get more than two a year under under how it's 1:06:26.920 --> 1:06:29.280 structured right now, and right now, we're not proposing to 1:06:29.320 --> 1:06:32.280 go in that in that winter spring hunt. You know, 1:06:32.320 --> 1:06:37.600 it's it's more dangerous. These are farther offshore, so it's 1:06:37.640 --> 1:06:42.400 it's more ideal to go in the summer fall hunt period. 1:06:42.680 --> 1:06:45.440 What kind of ground are these gray whales covering? Like 1:06:46.160 --> 1:06:48.960 what's their northern range and southern range? Because when they 1:06:48.960 --> 1:06:50.480 come by you, they're coming through. 1:06:50.280 --> 1:06:53.040 Right right, yeah, they're they're coming through the eastern North 1:06:53.080 --> 1:06:57.160 pacifics that we're targeting. You know, they go from Baja 1:06:57.200 --> 1:06:59.960 California to the Soclen Islands way up. 1:07:00.120 --> 1:07:01.040 I don't no Soccolene. 1:07:01.720 --> 1:07:07.160 It's way up in the sharing straight Russia. Oh really yeah, yes, 1:07:07.760 --> 1:07:10.200 got yeah, yeah, that's there. That's their feeding range. 1:07:10.480 --> 1:07:12.560 So these seasons is you're it's. 1:07:14.480 --> 1:07:19.600 It's it's different swings of a migration, right, Like one, 1:07:20.720 --> 1:07:23.640 I'm just like one is that they're sort of generally 1:07:23.680 --> 1:07:28.080 moving south, and one they're generally moving north. Correct, And 1:07:28.160 --> 1:07:30.200 that summer season they're generally moving north. 1:07:30.320 --> 1:07:32.440 Right now, they're moving south to go down to the 1:07:33.200 --> 1:07:39.040 well how to have their calves and no breeding. Yeah, 1:07:39.080 --> 1:07:41.320 so right now they're going past us. They're feeding and 1:07:41.360 --> 1:07:45.240 you know, slowly making their way down there, and they 1:07:45.280 --> 1:07:49.640 have their calves, and then the male whales start making 1:07:49.640 --> 1:07:51.919 it up and the females make it up after them 1:07:52.040 --> 1:07:53.880 with their calves slowly. Okay. 1:07:54.520 --> 1:07:57.560 Oh, when you if you imagine the ideal whale, is 1:07:57.560 --> 1:07:58.600 it a male or female? 1:07:58.800 --> 1:07:59.040 Male? 1:07:59.440 --> 1:07:59.959 Can you tell? 1:08:01.880 --> 1:08:05.440 There's a way you want to you want to explain 1:08:05.480 --> 1:08:09.720 how you you tell how female is the male? Ahead? 1:08:10.720 --> 1:08:14.360 So you have to stick your arm in them, and 1:08:14.400 --> 1:08:17.680 if it goes a certain direction, that's a male or 1:08:17.720 --> 1:08:18.440 a female. 1:08:19.320 --> 1:08:22.479 But yeah, but that's dead checking them. Yeah, you can't 1:08:22.479 --> 1:08:23.400 live check them. 1:08:23.640 --> 1:08:24.599 It's a little harder. 1:08:24.800 --> 1:08:27.639 Okay. So there's not like it wouldn't be that. 1:08:28.240 --> 1:08:32.639 We have an observer that like a specialist, a marine 1:08:32.640 --> 1:08:36.120 specialist that identify as if it's a male or a 1:08:36.160 --> 1:08:38.800 female for us before we strike it, because we can't 1:08:38.800 --> 1:08:41.400 strike a female after males. 1:08:41.479 --> 1:08:44.400 Oh okay, that's okay. So it would be out of 1:08:44.400 --> 1:08:47.719 the question to kill a female with a calf. Yeah, 1:08:48.000 --> 1:08:49.280 that's that's not gonna happen. 1:08:49.479 --> 1:08:51.040 It's not gonna happen, got it. 1:08:51.120 --> 1:08:52.560 And you're targeting males? 1:08:52.880 --> 1:08:56.840 Yeah, I see. And whether we get get it or not, 1:08:58.200 --> 1:09:02.760 those same whales we have the shared quota basically, so 1:09:02.880 --> 1:09:05.519 if we don't get them, it goes into their quota. 1:09:05.560 --> 1:09:08.120 Those two wheels that we're not getting all that tribe. 1:09:08.439 --> 1:09:13.679 Okay, yeah, where are they located? 1:09:15.680 --> 1:09:16.600 Russians? 1:09:17.479 --> 1:09:19.160 Man, your quota goes to the Russians. 1:09:19.280 --> 1:09:27.160 Okay, yeah, there's seriously. Yeah, during the and when I explaining, 1:09:27.280 --> 1:09:30.400 we we first agreed to be part of this international process. Yeah, 1:09:30.560 --> 1:09:33.000 federal government, wont us do that? We said, okay, and 1:09:33.080 --> 1:09:38.920 so we went and did it. There's a there's a 1:09:38.960 --> 1:09:42.960 whaling quota you know, given globally to whaling whaling nations, 1:09:42.960 --> 1:09:46.960 and that right through this process. Well, there's already established 1:09:47.040 --> 1:09:49.920 quota for for these gray whales the eastern North Pacifics 1:09:49.920 --> 1:09:53.960 that was mainly being taken by the chi Cookins up 1:09:54.000 --> 1:09:58.559 in Russia. And so when we first started working to 1:09:58.600 --> 1:10:04.720 get our international quota, what we were asking for the Chacokins, 1:10:05.920 --> 1:10:07.840 you know, we were able to build relationships with them 1:10:07.880 --> 1:10:10.519 and they supported us and they were willing to give 1:10:10.600 --> 1:10:13.160 up part of their quota, so that we said, right, 1:10:13.240 --> 1:10:15.960 so that we can continue our whaling. So it's an 1:10:16.000 --> 1:10:16.519 agreement that. 1:10:16.600 --> 1:10:18.960 So did you have to send some ambassadors up to 1:10:19.000 --> 1:10:19.880 meet with these guys. 1:10:19.960 --> 1:10:23.720 Yes, yes, and and talk this out and and talk 1:10:23.800 --> 1:10:26.559 it out and spend time with them during their whaling 1:10:26.600 --> 1:10:28.960 activities and huh yeah, and. 1:10:28.920 --> 1:10:30.920 You guys were generally well received by them. 1:10:31.240 --> 1:10:34.720 Yes, yes, mm hmm. 1:10:36.160 --> 1:10:38.519 Do they have the same arguments with the Russian government? 1:10:38.800 --> 1:10:39.160 Not all? Right? 1:10:39.680 --> 1:10:41.600 Do they have the same level of negotiating with the 1:10:41.680 --> 1:10:42.960 Russian Like what are their treaties? 1:10:43.000 --> 1:10:46.000 Like, I'm unsure, Yeah. 1:10:46.240 --> 1:10:48.479 I want I wonder if they have all the layers 1:10:48.479 --> 1:10:50.800 of government or if they just do their own thing 1:10:51.000 --> 1:10:53.040 or what that's like dealing with the Russian government. 1:10:53.360 --> 1:10:58.479 Yeah. I haven't been there myself. It's pretty remote, more 1:10:58.520 --> 1:11:01.040 remote than we are, so imagine they don't have to 1:11:01.080 --> 1:11:03.080 deal with them quite as much, not as much. 1:11:03.160 --> 1:11:09.320 Yeah, we keep getting into the timeline leaving the timeline, 1:11:09.320 --> 1:11:12.360 but where like, what are you waiting on right now? 1:11:13.439 --> 1:11:15.800 You're not going to whale this summer or you. 1:11:15.800 --> 1:11:20.040 Might, Well, it's it's still possible this summer. It's still possible. Yeah, 1:11:20.200 --> 1:11:22.600 it's still possible. You know, we're we're at the end 1:11:22.640 --> 1:11:24.680 of coming up on the end of July. You know what, 1:11:24.840 --> 1:11:28.280 there's the whales are still present. That's that's kind of 1:11:28.280 --> 1:11:30.040 the factor, you know, the whales got to be there. 1:11:30.040 --> 1:11:32.240 But yeah, sure, when they decide to leave, you know, 1:11:32.320 --> 1:11:38.879 then then they're gone. But we're waiting on the Secretary 1:11:38.880 --> 1:11:42.760 of Commerce too to sign the permit. You're waiting on 1:11:42.800 --> 1:11:49.320 Howard Lutnik correct to sign the permit. Yes, really, he's 1:11:49.320 --> 1:11:52.240 got to sign it. He does, or he's got to 1:11:52.240 --> 1:11:53.400 delegate someone to sign it. 1:11:54.400 --> 1:11:56.719 And what what what's his what's his thinking? 1:11:57.240 --> 1:11:59.080 We don't know. We haven't been able to talk to 1:11:59.160 --> 1:12:03.400 him directly on this issue. We've requested it. We've requested 1:12:03.439 --> 1:12:07.120 government to government consultation on this, which you know normally 1:12:07.160 --> 1:12:08.799 those are honored by the federal government. 1:12:09.920 --> 1:12:12.280 But these guys don't want to hear you out. 1:12:12.600 --> 1:12:15.720 Not too early to say, not Howard himself yet. But 1:12:15.880 --> 1:12:19.200 he's uhes deputies is his deputies. We've talked with them. 1:12:19.240 --> 1:12:21.639 They're super supportive. They've been great. 1:12:21.800 --> 1:12:24.080 Oh I got you all right, So there's no resistance there. 1:12:24.040 --> 1:12:26.280 No, we don't. And so it's it's a little puzzling 1:12:26.320 --> 1:12:28.000 for us. Frustrating for sure. 1:12:28.280 --> 1:12:32.280 Like you mean, like the recept the receptive they're not dismissive, 1:12:32.280 --> 1:12:34.000 but then there's not the signature. 1:12:33.560 --> 1:12:37.559 Yet, right right, Yeah, I would say it's even more 1:12:37.600 --> 1:12:39.320 than receptive. I'd say they're supportive. 1:12:39.520 --> 1:12:45.400 Supportive. Yeah, okay, so let's say, I mean, is it 1:12:45.439 --> 1:12:50.599 is there a possibility that tomorrow someone emails you over 1:12:51.560 --> 1:12:54.840 like a how does it happen? Like one day someone 1:12:54.920 --> 1:12:56.559 signs it and then there it is. 1:12:57.479 --> 1:13:03.599 Yes, So we have a pain permit application. I've actually 1:13:03.840 --> 1:13:08.280 signed my part of it already for twenty twenty five 1:13:09.479 --> 1:13:12.720 and twenty twenty seven. Was it a docu sign No, 1:13:12.800 --> 1:13:15.479 it was it digital? No, it wasn't a paper document. 1:13:15.600 --> 1:13:21.680 Was a paper document? Yeah, And we've well, our understanding 1:13:21.760 --> 1:13:26.320 last year was that we were we're both going to 1:13:26.360 --> 1:13:29.680 sign this and it would be effective August first of 1:13:29.680 --> 1:13:35.960 two thousand and twenty five. And we're preparing for that moment. 1:13:36.520 --> 1:13:40.640 We're working with with our media teams and you know, 1:13:40.960 --> 1:13:44.400 going to be prepared for any whether it's pushback or 1:13:44.439 --> 1:13:46.640 you know, people will want to tell the story, right, 1:13:46.760 --> 1:13:50.800 you know that it's going to get some coverage. And yeah, 1:13:50.840 --> 1:13:53.559 so we were, I mean, we were just weeks away, 1:13:53.560 --> 1:13:57.519 two weeks away from what we thought, you know, being 1:13:57.520 --> 1:14:03.040 issued our first permit on last year last year, and 1:14:03.040 --> 1:14:08.360 and then nothing happened and we yeah, it just went radio. 1:14:08.080 --> 1:14:10.040 Silence and that's under the Trump administration. 1:14:10.760 --> 1:14:12.920 Yeah, that's what's real puzzling about. I mean, you know, 1:14:12.960 --> 1:14:18.120 these these types of things is something you know, you know, 1:14:18.200 --> 1:14:21.360 hunting and outdoor type stuff, and you know those things 1:14:22.680 --> 1:14:25.040 seem right up this administration's alley, right, you know, they 1:14:25.040 --> 1:14:26.439 seem to be supportive. 1:14:25.960 --> 1:14:27.799 Of yeah, like stripping regulations, strip. 1:14:27.760 --> 1:14:31.720 Yeah, less regulation, those sort of things. So, yeah, we're 1:14:31.760 --> 1:14:33.280 not sure what what's going on. 1:14:33.400 --> 1:14:36.240 But this is you might want to not even answer this, 1:14:36.320 --> 1:14:41.439 and I would probably I wouldn't, but I'll ask anyway, just. 1:14:41.439 --> 1:14:43.720 Because of what you just said. Is it possible to 1:14:43.760 --> 1:14:46.160 say something like this, Is it possible to say that 1:14:46.160 --> 1:14:51.200 that that who's better friends to the macaw like generally 1:14:51.320 --> 1:14:53.800 Republicans are Democrats? Or is that not a possible You 1:14:53.840 --> 1:14:54.519 can't answer it. 1:14:54.600 --> 1:14:57.920 No, I've answered that question a number of times, and 1:14:57.920 --> 1:15:02.439 and I think both of them have their They have 1:15:02.520 --> 1:15:03.440 their points. 1:15:03.400 --> 1:15:04.160 That's what I think. 1:15:04.280 --> 1:15:07.360 They have their points of where the friendship ends it 1:15:07.640 --> 1:15:11.800 or starts right, you know, in general, and this is 1:15:12.240 --> 1:15:16.080 a pure generality, is that you know, Democrats will support 1:15:16.120 --> 1:15:20.240 our treaty right up unto the point it starts conflicting 1:15:20.280 --> 1:15:27.799 with labor and jobs. Oh, Republicans, they'll support our treaty 1:15:27.840 --> 1:15:30.360 right up into the point it starts affecting industry. 1:15:30.880 --> 1:15:35.160 Oh so like the AID, like the Age Old conflicts, 1:15:35.200 --> 1:15:38.680 you just like find your own Indian way into the 1:15:38.720 --> 1:15:42.360 Age Old conflicts. But here's the thing, Democrats and Republicans. 1:15:42.640 --> 1:15:46.280 Yeah, here's the thing, is that that our treaty rights 1:15:46.479 --> 1:15:47.600 should be nonpartisan. 1:15:49.600 --> 1:15:51.800 Yeah, if it was a well written treaty, you think 1:15:51.800 --> 1:15:54.559 that it would be Yeah, that it would be debatable. 1:15:55.800 --> 1:16:00.800 But I mean, as you know, I mean, documents don't 1:16:00.800 --> 1:16:04.479 always anticipate every development. But what's funny about not what's funny, 1:16:04.520 --> 1:16:07.760 but what's interesting about treat Like we look at the US Constitution, Right, 1:16:08.080 --> 1:16:09.920 so the founding fathers didn't come in and be like, 1:16:09.960 --> 1:16:10.479 they didn't make. 1:16:10.439 --> 1:16:11.960 A big passage about AI. 1:16:12.680 --> 1:16:14.559 Right, So then you got to get down the road 1:16:14.560 --> 1:16:17.040 and you gotta say, well, how would they have looked 1:16:17.080 --> 1:16:19.640 at this issue? Based on what we know about how 1:16:19.640 --> 1:16:21.519 they looked at other issues, how might they look at 1:16:21.560 --> 1:16:22.639 like an AI issue? 1:16:22.760 --> 1:16:26.599 Okay, but but what's and you know it way better. Mean, 1:16:26.640 --> 1:16:36.560 but if you look at tribal treaties, it literally contemplates hunting, fishing, landmarks, 1:16:37.000 --> 1:16:39.080 things that they're really. 1:16:38.840 --> 1:16:42.640 Clear about I agree, yes, I mean it's like you 1:16:42.680 --> 1:16:44.920 can't get any more clear, Like you guys are cool 1:16:45.120 --> 1:16:48.320 to go on and fishing and here right, So it's 1:16:48.360 --> 1:16:51.600 not like you're not contemplating AI. You're contemplating like a 1:16:51.720 --> 1:16:56.960 very concrete, specific activity. So that people find so many 1:16:56.960 --> 1:16:58.800 things to the debate about it is. You know, I 1:16:58.920 --> 1:17:01.800 understand the complexities, but it's just it's different because it's 1:17:01.840 --> 1:17:05.640 not abstract. It's like your father, your your your father's 1:17:07.000 --> 1:17:08.960 argued this out. 1:17:09.400 --> 1:17:12.240 They did, yeah, and brought up like, hey, we need 1:17:12.280 --> 1:17:12.719 we eat. 1:17:13.000 --> 1:17:14.479 This is what we eat. We need to be able 1:17:14.520 --> 1:17:19.120 to get our food. Here's the deal, you know. And 1:17:19.200 --> 1:17:21.720 now you're in this situation where you're like arguing about it, 1:17:22.200 --> 1:17:25.160 which I understand it's complicated, especially something like Wales. 1:17:25.680 --> 1:17:29.240 Well we're not even arguing right now. We're just waiting, waiting. 1:17:29.560 --> 1:17:30.520 We're just waiting. 1:17:33.080 --> 1:17:35.080 If if you all of a sudden get the permit, 1:17:35.160 --> 1:17:37.400 you all of a sudden get the signature. Do you 1:17:37.439 --> 1:17:39.120 got a team you know, you know you call it. 1:17:39.240 --> 1:17:41.080 Do you got a crew? Is there a crew ready 1:17:41.080 --> 1:17:43.920 to roll? They got the gear straight, they got the 1:17:43.960 --> 1:17:44.799 plan put together? 1:17:45.360 --> 1:17:47.479 Yeah we have I mean, we got some additional training 1:17:47.479 --> 1:17:50.560 that will have to be done, you know, because you 1:17:50.640 --> 1:17:55.240 know to be able to go tomorrow. You know that, 1:17:55.400 --> 1:17:58.320 you know, if we get the permit sign tomorrow, there 1:17:58.400 --> 1:18:00.000 isn't a team that's going to launch tomorrow. 1:18:00.240 --> 1:18:00.599 I see. 1:18:00.680 --> 1:18:02.200 Yeah, how do you. 1:18:02.120 --> 1:18:05.320 Get to be? Who selects the crew? 1:18:06.120 --> 1:18:07.160 Our whaling Commission? 1:18:07.840 --> 1:18:08.599 Okay, so you. 1:18:08.560 --> 1:18:11.960 Can't just freelance it. No, two dudes can't just be like, hell, 1:18:12.000 --> 1:18:13.479 I'm going like that wouldn't fly. 1:18:14.439 --> 1:18:15.120 No, it don't. 1:18:16.040 --> 1:18:19.880 No, it has that. It goes through the tribe, the 1:18:19.880 --> 1:18:22.080 Whaling Commission. Yes, got it? 1:18:22.400 --> 1:18:24.120 And and how do you apply to be Like, if 1:18:24.120 --> 1:18:25.599 you want to be on crew, what do you got 1:18:25.600 --> 1:18:29.519 to do? Who's on the crew? 1:18:29.880 --> 1:18:30.120 Yeah? 1:18:30.160 --> 1:18:34.200 So the way that the Whaling Commission handles that kind 1:18:34.200 --> 1:18:38.080 of stuff is essentially the you know, you're you're interested 1:18:38.160 --> 1:18:42.200 in being a captain, You're responsible for the crew. So 1:18:42.240 --> 1:18:45.080 the captain is the one who will apply for the permit, 1:18:45.800 --> 1:18:50.920 and the council, the tribal council's ultimate authority that signs 1:18:50.920 --> 1:18:52.599 the permit for the crew. 1:18:53.120 --> 1:18:54.040 So if you're going to be a. 1:18:54.000 --> 1:18:56.840 Captain, you you know, you gather your crew, you do 1:18:56.880 --> 1:18:59.120 everything you need to do. Say, you know, like you're 1:18:59.160 --> 1:19:02.479 doing for a a hunt for whatever, You're gonna pick 1:19:02.520 --> 1:19:04.360 your guys and this is what we're gonna do, this plan, 1:19:05.080 --> 1:19:05.920 train up whatever. 1:19:06.520 --> 1:19:07.479 But the captains you. 1:19:07.400 --> 1:19:10.160 Know, selects his crew, make sure they got everything going, 1:19:10.160 --> 1:19:12.559 and he's going to be the one to take the 1:19:12.600 --> 1:19:15.160 crew out and to actually do the do the hunt. 1:19:15.240 --> 1:19:20.639 So that captain goes to the commission and gets the Okay, 1:19:21.439 --> 1:19:23.679 what if you had eight captains. 1:19:23.479 --> 1:19:26.799 Well, so the commission will select the captains, the captains 1:19:26.800 --> 1:19:31.000 will select their crew, and the Commission will make a 1:19:31.040 --> 1:19:34.439 recommendation of the Council of of you know, who should 1:19:34.640 --> 1:19:36.559 gather the permit based on who's you know, who's ready. 1:19:36.560 --> 1:19:36.680 There. 1:19:36.760 --> 1:19:39.360 There might be one captain that's ready, there might be eight. 1:19:39.439 --> 1:19:43.840 And we've even talked about doing things like, you know, 1:19:43.920 --> 1:19:46.880 having multiple crews and and you know, not your first 1:19:46.920 --> 1:19:48.600 hunt's not always successful. 1:19:48.760 --> 1:19:50.759 It can be, but it's not always. 1:19:50.840 --> 1:19:53.519 And so we've talked about having different crews hunting at 1:19:53.520 --> 1:20:01.040 different times. That requires a couple of different technical you know, 1:20:01.080 --> 1:20:04.719 tribal hunt, observers hunting, both communication. 1:20:04.240 --> 1:20:06.240 To make sure you're not doubling up. 1:20:06.280 --> 1:20:10.240 But there's a lot of different ways that we've discussed 1:20:10.280 --> 1:20:13.479 internally on how to handle and on how to handle 1:20:13.560 --> 1:20:16.800 you know, multiple crews, multiple captains and got it. And 1:20:17.160 --> 1:20:20.280 even having the positions of the whaler's just kind of 1:20:20.960 --> 1:20:23.880 trained up in multiple positions so that you know, people 1:20:24.120 --> 1:20:25.840 get sick or people get hurt, or you know, you 1:20:25.840 --> 1:20:27.280 can swap around and you can move. 1:20:27.320 --> 1:20:31.120 And so what would be the attributes of a captain 1:20:31.240 --> 1:20:32.880 he's coming out of what is he is? 1:20:32.920 --> 1:20:32.960 He? 1:20:33.120 --> 1:20:37.519 Is he probably a commercial fisherman? Is he probably a fisherman? 1:20:38.040 --> 1:20:40.280 I mean, I'll hand that one over to Daniel, But 1:20:40.600 --> 1:20:42.760 I imagine he's got to be well versed in the sea. 1:20:42.840 --> 1:20:46.400 And yeah, yeah, well versed in the sea, knowing the history, 1:20:47.439 --> 1:20:52.280 actually knowing the whales, okay, personally spending time you know, 1:20:52.320 --> 1:20:56.760 on the water, you know, observing whales, knowing positions in 1:20:56.800 --> 1:21:00.280 the canoe, how to make the harpoons battles that. 1:21:01.280 --> 1:21:02.080 So, got it. 1:21:02.120 --> 1:21:05.920 So they got to be invested, be invested in it, yes, 1:21:06.240 --> 1:21:09.080 and have a reasonable claim to why they should be 1:21:09.120 --> 1:21:09.479 doing it. 1:21:09.640 --> 1:21:11.240 Yes, for sure, got it. 1:21:11.600 --> 1:21:13.800 So someone comes up with like a crackpot idea, they're 1:21:13.840 --> 1:21:15.479 gonna get weed, They're gonna get weeded out. 1:21:15.320 --> 1:21:16.599 And get weeded out for sure. 1:21:16.720 --> 1:21:18.760 Yeah, how big is the Commission. 1:21:19.880 --> 1:21:20.639 About twenty four. 1:21:20.960 --> 1:21:22.280 No kids are they all tribal. 1:21:22.400 --> 1:21:27.320 They're all either heads or descendants of like traditional heads 1:21:27.320 --> 1:21:29.600 of families. And so that's that's what I wanted to 1:21:29.640 --> 1:21:31.719 get into a little bit. It's like, traditionally you're brought 1:21:31.800 --> 1:21:35.679 up as a whaler, captain or leader because it's central 1:21:35.760 --> 1:21:38.200 to the like I said, the society of the tribe. 1:21:38.560 --> 1:21:40.720 And so it's like it's not hey, we're going to 1:21:40.800 --> 1:21:42.719 go sure to elk, We're going to grab our permit, 1:21:42.760 --> 1:21:46.680 but like it's a lifestyle, okay, right, the training, the mindset, 1:21:46.760 --> 1:21:48.439 even just who you are as a person. If you're 1:21:48.479 --> 1:21:51.120 going to be a captain, you're you're already set apart, 1:21:51.400 --> 1:21:53.679 I understand. And you're you're brought up in a way 1:21:53.760 --> 1:21:56.160 like you're a leader, You're a you know, take care 1:21:56.200 --> 1:21:56.759 of your family. 1:21:56.800 --> 1:21:57.200 You know. 1:21:57.320 --> 1:21:59.200 You's like you said, spend time in the ocean, spend 1:21:59.240 --> 1:22:02.080 time with the sea. You know, wales breathing patterns, fluke 1:22:02.400 --> 1:22:05.519 fluke prints, like you kind of know, I see you 1:22:05.600 --> 1:22:06.400 know you're gonna be. 1:22:06.560 --> 1:22:10.280 Yeah, but they've been prepared for this their whole life. 1:22:11.040 --> 1:22:11.960 Is there a clan. 1:22:11.760 --> 1:22:14.160 System with the Macaw? Do you guys, are you guys 1:22:14.200 --> 1:22:15.120 from different clans. 1:22:16.439 --> 1:22:22.240 So the tribe has five traditional villages, okay, and the 1:22:22.240 --> 1:22:24.120 five traditional village are kind of what make up the 1:22:24.240 --> 1:22:29.639 reservation now. So we have Ozette Sus, we have watch 1:22:30.360 --> 1:22:33.479 Dia and Bejeta. So those are the five villages that 1:22:33.560 --> 1:22:35.320 kind of make up the tribe now. But as far 1:22:35.320 --> 1:22:39.000 as clans go, everybody kind of you know where you 1:22:39.000 --> 1:22:40.840 come from, you know what family you come from, what 1:22:40.960 --> 1:22:42.000 village you come from. 1:22:42.320 --> 1:22:45.320 And people might have It's like a step down from 1:22:45.439 --> 1:22:47.800 Macaw would be that you'd associate by. 1:22:47.800 --> 1:22:51.840 Village in family village and family village and family. You 1:22:51.920 --> 1:22:53.920 kind of tie your family, you know where your village. 1:22:54.439 --> 1:22:57.160 Everybody knows who comes from what village for the most part, 1:22:57.200 --> 1:23:00.320 and that's just part of how the oral history has 1:23:00.320 --> 1:23:04.840 continued to transpire as everybody understands whose family, who comes 1:23:04.840 --> 1:23:08.360 from who, and that kind of gets into our potlat 1:23:08.439 --> 1:23:10.360 system of you know and all. 1:23:10.439 --> 1:23:13.080 And in the Whaling Commission, the different there would be 1:23:13.160 --> 1:23:14.960 representation from all the villages. 1:23:15.479 --> 1:23:18.320 Yeah, and multiple multiple families from multiple. 1:23:17.880 --> 1:23:20.240 People from all villages and they come together. 1:23:20.640 --> 1:23:23.200 It's a heads it's heads of family type structure. 1:23:23.320 --> 1:23:23.880 Heads a family. 1:23:23.880 --> 1:23:27.640 It's a family rather than clan. It's we, that's how 1:23:27.680 --> 1:23:32.320 we associate. Each village would have so many heads of 1:23:32.360 --> 1:23:36.040 family that would be part of that village's governance of 1:23:36.520 --> 1:23:41.080 of their village. And you know there are different number 1:23:41.080 --> 1:23:42.760 of seats per village, and that was up to the 1:23:42.800 --> 1:23:45.519 village to decide how many I got it, how many 1:23:45.520 --> 1:23:48.960 seats they wanted filled as heads of family on. 1:23:48.960 --> 1:23:53.120 These whaling decisions and captain selection and and when to 1:23:53.320 --> 1:23:54.960 when to push on it and try to do it 1:23:55.000 --> 1:23:58.720 and when anot is it? Is it contentious or do 1:23:58.760 --> 1:24:02.320 you guys usually hit a consensus. 1:24:04.240 --> 1:24:09.400 We don't disagree on anything, Steve No, never, No, it's 1:24:09.120 --> 1:24:11.000 it can get contentious. 1:24:10.520 --> 1:24:13.840 There can be Yeah, does it do you settle it? 1:24:14.479 --> 1:24:16.600 Do you settle by vote? Or do you hash it 1:24:16.640 --> 1:24:22.639 out until there's a consensus. Well, I think there's attempt 1:24:22.640 --> 1:24:24.599 to reach consensus. But you know at the end there 1:24:24.640 --> 1:24:26.120 is a voting mechanisic. 1:24:27.240 --> 1:24:29.920 So just any any sort of issue would be eventually 1:24:30.040 --> 1:24:31.320 might be resolved by a vote. 1:24:31.840 --> 1:24:33.240 Yes, yeah, I got you. 1:24:36.080 --> 1:24:38.639 What will happen Let's say in two years, So you've 1:24:38.680 --> 1:24:39.960 got this relationship with the. 1:24:39.880 --> 1:24:44.640 Commerce Department under Howard Lutnik. Right now, what's say in 1:24:44.680 --> 1:24:45.360 two years. 1:24:46.479 --> 1:24:47.600 It's a new administration. 1:24:48.920 --> 1:24:50.880 At that point, I'm like, oh my god, now we 1:24:50.920 --> 1:24:52.200 got to start all the way over again. 1:24:52.280 --> 1:24:53.920 Or is it is there a chance that it would 1:24:53.920 --> 1:24:54.799 be smooth? 1:24:56.400 --> 1:24:56.599 Well? 1:24:56.640 --> 1:25:01.840 It there definitely be the concern that we gotta reboot 1:25:01.920 --> 1:25:06.600 the waiver process. You know that that would you know, 1:25:06.680 --> 1:25:10.160 that would be concerning, but or the permitting process. Sorry, 1:25:10.200 --> 1:25:12.560 you know we we've already been granted the waiver. You 1:25:12.600 --> 1:25:16.360 know that can't be walked back, but you know we 1:25:16.400 --> 1:25:20.439 need a permit. So yeah, I don't know. I don't 1:25:20.479 --> 1:25:22.720 know what administration change would do. We've been through a 1:25:22.720 --> 1:25:23.479 lot of them. 1:25:23.640 --> 1:25:29.240 Yeah, yeah, who was president when Stevens was the negotiating 1:25:29.280 --> 1:25:30.120 all those treaties? 1:25:30.479 --> 1:25:32.040 Oh a Buchanan, was it not? 1:25:32.479 --> 1:25:37.360 You've been through a few administrations. Hey, here's here's what 1:25:37.439 --> 1:25:44.000 I wanted to ask. Sorry, Loop, We've been having a 1:25:44.000 --> 1:25:45.760 lot of conversations. You know, we had a lot of 1:25:46.320 --> 1:25:51.639 fish and game, and some of the guys work here 1:25:52.720 --> 1:25:55.920 fish a lot, and we've been having all these conversations 1:25:55.920 --> 1:26:00.599 about like pfast chemicals and fish health warnings and fish. 1:26:01.280 --> 1:26:03.040 If you had to rate, like you know, in our 1:26:03.120 --> 1:26:04.000 in our world, it. 1:26:04.000 --> 1:26:04.639 Would be that. 1:26:06.960 --> 1:26:10.559 You know, like tuna, that's a questionable fish for heavy 1:26:10.600 --> 1:26:12.680 metals contamination. 1:26:13.360 --> 1:26:16.760 Our own state has now. 1:26:18.240 --> 1:26:21.920 Advisories about pfast chemicals and fresh water fish. 1:26:22.479 --> 1:26:24.200 Here is a. 1:26:27.560 --> 1:26:31.320 How how much you see into stuff in whale in 1:26:31.400 --> 1:26:35.160 whale fat, because I mean they're like a mega accumulator, 1:26:35.280 --> 1:26:37.840 you know, just for listeners to understand, I mean this 1:26:37.960 --> 1:26:42.120 picture that picture that there's a fish that a small 1:26:42.120 --> 1:26:45.200 fish that eats plankton. He's not accumulating a bunch of 1:26:45.200 --> 1:26:46.040 heavy metals. 1:26:46.640 --> 1:26:50.040 But let's say there's a fish that eats fish, that 1:26:50.160 --> 1:26:55.920 eats fish. So every fish he eats, he's absorbing all 1:26:55.960 --> 1:26:59.040 the things that not just that they ate, but that 1:26:59.800 --> 1:27:02.080 what they ate ate. Right, And you get to be 1:27:02.120 --> 1:27:04.479 where you have these certain fish that are loaded because 1:27:04.479 --> 1:27:09.000 they're accumulated. They're just eating fish, they ate fish. So 1:27:09.040 --> 1:27:15.160 it is a whale. Is a whale like a bioaccumulator 1:27:16.000 --> 1:27:18.880 of environmental toxins. 1:27:18.479 --> 1:27:23.080 There's not much data on it. I mean what I 1:27:23.240 --> 1:27:26.280 what I have found was they have done some studies 1:27:26.320 --> 1:27:31.360 on some whales that whether they were you know, ship 1:27:31.360 --> 1:27:36.040 strikes or beach themselves, and I believe they detected you know, 1:27:36.160 --> 1:27:39.200 levels in the blubber. They didn't find it. I think 1:27:39.240 --> 1:27:42.400 there was like maybe twenty whales, but a lot of 1:27:42.400 --> 1:27:46.160 them were inconclusive and they didn't find any in the liver, 1:27:46.439 --> 1:27:49.920 it sounded like. And then like the red meat, there 1:27:49.960 --> 1:27:53.479 wasn't as much. But I mean, you know, you could 1:27:53.479 --> 1:27:57.000 see the tribes that have been eating whale for all 1:27:57.000 --> 1:27:59.479 these years, and you know, it is medicine. And I 1:27:59.520 --> 1:28:03.360 mean the even the government is getting back to like 1:28:03.439 --> 1:28:06.639 food is medicine, you know. Yeah, turn the triangle upside 1:28:06.680 --> 1:28:09.080 down now red meats at the top. Oh yeah, and 1:28:10.520 --> 1:28:14.840 you know it normalizes glucose metabolism. You know, whale meat 1:28:14.880 --> 1:28:16.720 it's been shown to do that. You can see that 1:28:16.800 --> 1:28:19.639 in the and the tribes that are still eating it, 1:28:19.760 --> 1:28:23.000 you know, on a daily basis, and it's it's their 1:28:23.080 --> 1:28:27.760 main fat source, you know. And you can see in 1:28:27.880 --> 1:28:32.880 those where the health related diseases are not as large 1:28:32.880 --> 1:28:35.960 as you know, say like a coastal triver like a 1:28:35.960 --> 1:28:39.040 lot of the the tribes you know that that got 1:28:39.120 --> 1:28:41.559 hit with like you know, the commodities you remember, you know, 1:28:41.920 --> 1:28:45.559 no no so commodities. You know, it was a oh yeah, 1:28:45.640 --> 1:28:49.559 the food Western like Western foods you know, introduced into 1:28:49.600 --> 1:28:53.160 our diet once we laid down our harpoons, you know, 1:28:53.800 --> 1:28:58.080 twelve years before anybody else started to, you know, knowing 1:28:58.120 --> 1:29:00.639 we were going to get back to it, but still 1:29:00.680 --> 1:29:04.400 you know, traditionally eating all of our our foods and 1:29:05.240 --> 1:29:10.360 which even there's we had elders that were you know, 1:29:10.400 --> 1:29:12.920 they were probably around when we had our last couple 1:29:13.040 --> 1:29:14.960 hunts in the twenties and they lived to be in 1:29:15.000 --> 1:29:15.639 their hundreds. 1:29:16.000 --> 1:29:20.479 Oh, they were enjoying good, long lives on that diet. 1:29:20.560 --> 1:29:22.960 He could speak more on that as well, but you know, 1:29:23.120 --> 1:29:29.000 the I think it's like with the grey whale on 1:29:29.120 --> 1:29:32.599 the few of the villages up there, because it they 1:29:32.640 --> 1:29:36.720 get about. I think they have sixteen thousand people that 1:29:36.840 --> 1:29:40.479 they get whale distributed to and they get about I 1:29:40.479 --> 1:29:43.719 think it's one hundred and seven pounds of gray whale 1:29:43.800 --> 1:29:48.439 meat and twenty six percent of them. I think it 1:29:48.479 --> 1:29:50.800 was that they said it was their main food, like 1:29:50.880 --> 1:29:53.320 their main fatty foods. Is that right? 1:29:53.400 --> 1:29:56.840 Yeah? And so even us reinteresting. 1:29:57.000 --> 1:29:57.160 Yeah. 1:29:57.439 --> 1:30:00.880 Wow, there's like people who's main like that's their main Yeah, 1:30:00.920 --> 1:30:02.439 a main meat would be whale meat. 1:30:02.760 --> 1:30:07.360 Yeah. And even for us, you know, introducing it back 1:30:07.400 --> 1:30:10.240 into our diet, which it's been missing since the twenties 1:30:11.040 --> 1:30:14.040 since we've stopped and you can you can see the 1:30:14.160 --> 1:30:16.639 you know, diabetes and whatever else. You know, the health 1:30:16.680 --> 1:30:21.080 related diseases, they're pretty rampant, you know. And then even 1:30:21.120 --> 1:30:25.439 with those you know, those microplastics and everything in the. 1:30:25.360 --> 1:30:26.160 Food that. 1:30:28.640 --> 1:30:31.320 I believe that it is something that will need to 1:30:31.360 --> 1:30:34.519 be studied more once you know, we're where if we're 1:30:34.520 --> 1:30:36.720 whaling on a regular basis, I'm sure it's something we're 1:30:36.760 --> 1:30:40.439 gonna be able to study if it is higher because 1:30:40.479 --> 1:30:43.120 they are eating fish, eating fish, eating fish. 1:30:43.160 --> 1:30:45.200 But then you got the question too of of like. 1:30:47.800 --> 1:30:51.400 Relative to like let's say they do have some chemical contamination, 1:30:51.560 --> 1:30:54.080 it's like relative to what? Then you got to ask yourself, 1:30:54.080 --> 1:30:56.120 I don't know, is the other stuff that everybody's eating 1:30:56.160 --> 1:30:56.559 so great? 1:30:57.160 --> 1:30:58.120 Yeah, there's you know. 1:30:58.040 --> 1:31:01.600 There's a lot of focus on wild fish. You know, 1:31:01.680 --> 1:31:04.120 I'm like, I don't know, are they checking everything? Like 1:31:04.240 --> 1:31:06.080 have you gone to the grocery store and checked all 1:31:06.080 --> 1:31:08.200 that stuff? Like it is wildfish really worse than all 1:31:08.240 --> 1:31:09.719 the junk that's in the grocery store. 1:31:09.760 --> 1:31:11.519 It's definitely better than farm fish. 1:31:11.640 --> 1:31:13.320 Yeah, It's like it winds up being like this totally 1:31:13.360 --> 1:31:16.280 relative thing. But there's all this focus on contaminations and fish. 1:31:16.280 --> 1:31:17.760 I'm like, i'd have to see the data on all 1:31:17.760 --> 1:31:18.880 the junk that normal people. 1:31:19.320 --> 1:31:22.839 Well, now it's getting into lab grown, lab grown meat, 1:31:23.320 --> 1:31:24.040 but I don't. 1:31:23.880 --> 1:31:25.760 Think no one's making lab grown whale meat. 1:31:25.800 --> 1:31:26.519 Don't quote me. 1:31:26.640 --> 1:31:30.080 I don't think are A tested it on the mercury 1:31:30.160 --> 1:31:32.280 for gray whales are. 1:31:32.600 --> 1:31:33.639 I don't think it was much. 1:31:34.360 --> 1:31:37.800 That'd be interesting, I could, Yeah, because one thing they're 1:31:37.840 --> 1:31:40.960 not doing is they're not eating They're not eating big 1:31:41.000 --> 1:31:44.479 fish like tuna. Big tuna eat small tuna. 1:31:45.520 --> 1:31:49.240 I mean, they're they're eating bio like tuna, eating bioaccumulators. 1:31:49.320 --> 1:31:53.360 And a lot of times a tunea is eating a 1:31:53.479 --> 1:31:56.479 fish that's eating a fish that eats fish. 1:31:57.439 --> 1:31:59.040 So it's just a different But you can picture. 1:31:58.840 --> 1:32:02.520 With a whale eating a lot of or lived plankton feeders, 1:32:02.840 --> 1:32:04.320 then maybe they don't get loaded up. 1:32:04.840 --> 1:32:05.040 Yeah. 1:32:05.080 --> 1:32:08.080 And if you eat like so, you eat whale meat 1:32:08.080 --> 1:32:12.160 and blubber and then cut out all the processed stuff. 1:32:12.479 --> 1:32:16.479 Is the whale meat with chemicals and toxins better than 1:32:16.479 --> 1:32:20.760 a diet of processed food with chemicals, with chemicals and toxics. 1:32:20.560 --> 1:32:24.720 That's that's what I mean. Yeah, do you got let 1:32:24.720 --> 1:32:26.240 me ask you question. This is just on on the 1:32:26.280 --> 1:32:28.400 behalf of non non natives. 1:32:29.640 --> 1:32:32.040 You know what thing we always argue about, man, is 1:32:32.040 --> 1:32:34.240 whether it's okay to call you guys Indians or not. 1:32:34.640 --> 1:32:37.240 Give me your take on this, like like like just 1:32:37.280 --> 1:32:38.839 for listener's sake. 1:32:39.479 --> 1:32:40.719 Up like a dude. 1:32:40.760 --> 1:32:42.720 Like here's a dude like me, a dude like me, 1:32:42.800 --> 1:32:47.240 and I say, you guys are Indians. Just for people 1:32:47.280 --> 1:32:49.080 out there who want to do the right thing, but 1:32:49.120 --> 1:32:51.439 they get confused, what does that mean to you? 1:32:51.840 --> 1:32:54.360 Steve's say, quidicch chuck, qutic chuck. 1:32:57.400 --> 1:32:59.000 So is it offensive or not offensive? 1:33:01.439 --> 1:33:04.840 We're not too uptight about that most most of our people, 1:33:05.240 --> 1:33:07.559 you know, it's for us. We say, yeah, I can 1:33:07.560 --> 1:33:10.559 call us Indians. Our treaty. It's the Indians of Kate 1:33:10.640 --> 1:33:11.280 flattery in there. 1:33:11.360 --> 1:33:13.599 Yeah, but you might not like that treaty. I'm not asking, 1:33:13.800 --> 1:33:15.880 I'm asked to be cute. I'm like, it's like an 1:33:15.920 --> 1:33:18.479 honest thing. There's not a month goes by, I'm not 1:33:18.680 --> 1:33:19.320 I'm not kidding you. 1:33:19.800 --> 1:33:22.920 There's not a month goes by that I don't have 1:33:23.040 --> 1:33:32.719 a conversation with someone about the appropriateness sure of native 1:33:32.960 --> 1:33:36.720 like Native American first Nations Native Alaskan, you know what. 1:33:36.680 --> 1:33:37.439 I mean, like like. 1:33:39.439 --> 1:33:41.639 The appropriateness of it, and maybe it's offensive that I'm 1:33:41.680 --> 1:33:44.000 even asking about. I'm going to ask anyway, because there's people. 1:33:44.040 --> 1:33:46.479 There's like people that want to do that. There's people 1:33:46.520 --> 1:33:49.640 that want to be respectful. But there's a lot of 1:33:49.680 --> 1:33:53.599 mixed signals and feelings. I remember asking the earlier, I said, 1:33:53.640 --> 1:33:56.120 Chupic eskimo. I asked the Chupic Eskimo. I said, man, 1:33:56.160 --> 1:33:58.800 you know a lot of people, like in our culture, 1:33:59.320 --> 1:33:59.640 a lot of. 1:33:59.600 --> 1:34:02.120 People say that they shouldn't say that. 1:34:02.320 --> 1:34:04.000 And he goes, if I'm not an Eskimo, I don't 1:34:04.000 --> 1:34:07.280 know what I am, because he goes, I'm a Cubic Eskimo. 1:34:07.520 --> 1:34:09.160 I don't know what they told you back home, but 1:34:09.200 --> 1:34:09.880 that's what I. 1:34:09.760 --> 1:34:12.400 Am, you know, and that you know, that's how we are. 1:34:13.080 --> 1:34:17.320 Any English word is the wrong word. So that's that's 1:34:17.360 --> 1:34:20.280 my take on it. It's like, you know, you he 1:34:20.360 --> 1:34:23.880 tried to say quid. That's what we call ourselves, you know, 1:34:24.200 --> 1:34:29.559 but any English word is the wrong word. But I 1:34:29.560 --> 1:34:30.360 don't stress about it. 1:34:30.360 --> 1:34:32.120 But there's some of you learned to live with and 1:34:32.360 --> 1:34:33.320 learn not to live with. 1:34:35.400 --> 1:34:37.920 It's more in them. You know. To me, it's it's 1:34:37.920 --> 1:34:40.600 more how are you saying it? Right, Yeah, you know, 1:34:40.640 --> 1:34:42.240 it's how are you saying it? How are you using it? 1:34:42.280 --> 1:34:43.040 How are you saying it? 1:34:43.680 --> 1:34:46.160 That's what I would imagine. That's what I That's how 1:34:46.240 --> 1:34:51.400 I kind of imagined it is is is in that way. 1:34:51.720 --> 1:34:54.559 But I but maybe am I? Am I right to 1:34:54.600 --> 1:34:58.040 say that? The best thing? I can't say your word? 1:34:58.320 --> 1:35:03.000 But if I just said he's macaw, that's fine. Yeah 1:35:03.160 --> 1:35:05.720 you're not like, wow, I'm not that's what someone else 1:35:05.800 --> 1:35:06.160 called me. 1:35:06.600 --> 1:35:09.400 Yeah, that's respect. That's respect. That that shows respect if 1:35:09.400 --> 1:35:12.599 I say that, or it doesn't show a lack of respect. 1:35:13.000 --> 1:35:14.719 Correct, it doesn't show a lack of respect. 1:35:14.840 --> 1:35:15.280 Yeah. 1:35:15.720 --> 1:35:18.679 And if I say Native American, that's cool, that's. 1:35:18.439 --> 1:35:21.840 Cool too, all right, all right, yeah, you know, like 1:35:21.920 --> 1:35:25.840 a good example the the Washington Redskins. Yeah, it wasn't 1:35:25.920 --> 1:35:29.040 the it wasn't the family of the chief of the 1:35:29.080 --> 1:35:31.320 head that they used on their helmet for that Redskins 1:35:31.360 --> 1:35:34.280 that got rid of it. It was those other groups. 1:35:34.840 --> 1:35:37.519 What do you mean, like, it wasn't so that that 1:35:37.560 --> 1:35:40.400 picture was actually from a chief in that area. 1:35:41.360 --> 1:35:43.280 Oh, they didn't have a problem with it. 1:35:43.320 --> 1:35:44.000 They didn't know. 1:35:44.360 --> 1:35:49.000 Huh, there's probably one hundred stories like that. 1:35:50.320 --> 1:35:50.719 Yeah. 1:35:50.840 --> 1:35:54.759 Yeah, our high school mascot is the Red Devils. 1:35:55.479 --> 1:36:00.519 Your high school mascot still now still now yeah, you 1:36:00.600 --> 1:36:03.560 do you find that that's a problem. 1:36:03.760 --> 1:36:05.800 No, No, that's interesting. 1:36:06.160 --> 1:36:08.880 Yeah, but there's got to be a lot of it. 1:36:09.040 --> 1:36:10.920 A lot of it is, like you said, where it's 1:36:10.960 --> 1:36:11.479 coming from? 1:36:11.479 --> 1:36:18.799 It right, you know who's saying it, where it's coming from. 1:36:18.880 --> 1:36:21.360 I would like to see a mascot that the whalers 1:36:21.520 --> 1:36:22.240 with their own name. 1:36:22.360 --> 1:36:23.720 Yeah, with your own name. 1:36:23.800 --> 1:36:24.800 Yeah, you know in our. 1:36:24.800 --> 1:36:29.240 Language, there's a there's a tribe near us that that 1:36:29.400 --> 1:36:33.400 did that. And uh, but finding one that's easy to 1:36:33.479 --> 1:36:37.720 say and in Quadit language just is tough. You know. 1:36:37.760 --> 1:36:41.800 That's so there's a school mascot chitwins. You know it's 1:36:42.080 --> 1:36:45.479 a tribal tribal community and you know that just means 1:36:45.520 --> 1:36:48.960 a beard. It's like easy to say. Anybody can say it, 1:36:49.000 --> 1:36:51.040 and it's a great mascot. 1:36:51.360 --> 1:36:53.040 Can can can any of you guys give me a 1:36:53.080 --> 1:36:56.200 sense of what your language sounds like. Just just say 1:36:56.240 --> 1:36:58.439 something whatever. I don't know anything that just that guy. 1:36:59.000 --> 1:37:01.480 But to ask Clay with those. 1:37:03.280 --> 1:37:04.320 Duke checks h. 1:37:05.920 --> 1:37:12.120 Husha Bots, Okay to talk about whaling the whales. 1:37:11.880 --> 1:37:13.639 Talking about the whales. Yeah, I got it. 1:37:15.040 --> 1:37:19.040 Yeah, it's kind of Marlan quiet. So plush is my name. Yeah, 1:37:19.479 --> 1:37:20.880 watch you have to watch. 1:37:21.080 --> 1:37:23.720 God it's a good sound of language, dude. So that's 1:37:23.720 --> 1:37:25.320 a good sign of language, man like that. 1:37:25.760 --> 1:37:27.640 It's a yeah, very good. And then we share our 1:37:27.680 --> 1:37:31.559 language families in Canada. So Johnny is where we come from. 1:37:31.720 --> 1:37:35.880 Whaling societies all along the Canadian West Coast island. So 1:37:36.080 --> 1:37:37.160 that's where we come from. 1:37:37.280 --> 1:37:37.679 Okay. 1:37:38.479 --> 1:37:42.920 So if I if like you go up, you got like. 1:37:46.040 --> 1:37:51.439 The hidea Simshian with those have been wu there been 1:37:51.439 --> 1:37:53.240 cultural similarities. 1:37:54.240 --> 1:37:55.280 Were just very different. 1:37:55.520 --> 1:37:58.880 They're pretty different. Yeah yeah, yeah, so we're just just 1:37:58.920 --> 1:38:03.680 south the Hida had Yeah, I guess northern northern end 1:38:03.840 --> 1:38:06.080 print troupert we had ties in with them, Okay, but 1:38:06.200 --> 1:38:08.280 I to guay kind of got different. 1:38:08.320 --> 1:38:13.000 That's a different way different people. Yeah. If you guys 1:38:13.000 --> 1:38:15.640 get this thing signed, this paper signed. 1:38:17.320 --> 1:38:20.920 Would you ever would you consider photocopying me a photocopy of. 1:38:20.880 --> 1:38:21.879 That sending me that. 1:38:23.200 --> 1:38:25.480 The permit the permit. 1:38:25.479 --> 1:38:27.920 Yeah, with like all like a permit, I just want 1:38:27.960 --> 1:38:30.880 to frame it, hang it in the studio A photocopy 1:38:30.880 --> 1:38:31.719 of your signed permit. 1:38:31.960 --> 1:38:35.439 I'm sure we're like your whale tag, the photocopy of 1:38:35.439 --> 1:38:36.160 your whale tag. 1:38:37.400 --> 1:38:38.040 We could do that. 1:38:39.320 --> 1:38:40.840 Just some kind of i'd like to have. I just 1:38:40.920 --> 1:38:44.200 like to see a dog make I'd like to see it. 1:38:45.760 --> 1:38:45.880 Now. 1:38:45.880 --> 1:38:47.800 I want to just I want to photocopy from you guys. 1:38:47.800 --> 1:38:48.280 I don't want to. 1:38:48.280 --> 1:38:49.720 I don't want to have to go through the legal Yeah, 1:38:49.760 --> 1:38:51.840 just a document that's sort of like, is like, what 1:38:51.840 --> 1:38:55.519 what a whale permit looks like? A right, I'd like 1:38:55.560 --> 1:38:57.760 to see a whale permit do They probably don't have 1:38:57.800 --> 1:39:00.000 like the little date things you notch out and stuff. 1:39:00.040 --> 1:39:02.639 Find them. No, No, I'd like to see one. 1:39:03.479 --> 1:39:03.679 Man. 1:39:03.720 --> 1:39:06.160 I wish you guys, I don't know, man, not, I 1:39:06.200 --> 1:39:08.320 don't know. I hope you guys permit comes in. 1:39:08.560 --> 1:39:08.880 Thank you. 1:39:09.720 --> 1:39:12.240 Yeah, I hope your permit comes in. It's just like 1:39:12.280 --> 1:39:18.000 to me, it feels to me, it feels like there's 1:39:18.040 --> 1:39:22.400 not a situation where there's not a situation one where 1:39:22.720 --> 1:39:25.519 sort of the general commercial fishing fleet is going to 1:39:25.600 --> 1:39:28.240 re engage in whaling and there's going to be like 1:39:28.280 --> 1:39:30.439 a resource battle about it, you know what I mean? 1:39:30.640 --> 1:39:33.920 You guys got a claim to it. 1:39:33.920 --> 1:39:36.840 It's not a thing that's gonna get overblown. There's a 1:39:36.880 --> 1:39:39.680 limited number of there's a limited number of groups that 1:39:40.280 --> 1:39:42.639 have it, be that it's part of their tradition. It's 1:39:42.680 --> 1:39:47.040 such a small harvest. It just seems like it's it's 1:39:47.080 --> 1:39:50.280 doing it seems like it's doing enormous good. It's doing 1:39:50.479 --> 1:39:56.960 enormous good for your community, and it's not doing any 1:39:57.000 --> 1:39:59.880 harm to other It's not doing any harm to other communities. 1:40:01.920 --> 1:40:02.599 You know what I'm saying. 1:40:02.720 --> 1:40:04.080 Yeah, no, we we agree. 1:40:04.320 --> 1:40:05.960 It's just like it's like it's kind of like a 1:40:06.479 --> 1:40:08.519 it's it's not you know, you say, like a win win. 1:40:09.840 --> 1:40:11.400 It's a win. It's like a win. 1:40:11.560 --> 1:40:16.559 Nothing like it doesn't mean like it doesn't impact my life, right, 1:40:16.640 --> 1:40:18.599 it's not. I just feel like it's not my business. 1:40:18.880 --> 1:40:21.000 I feel it's like if it does you guys good 1:40:21.560 --> 1:40:24.320 and you want to do it, it's not going. 1:40:24.280 --> 1:40:26.680 To tank the great whale population. If you guys are 1:40:26.680 --> 1:40:30.960 getting the whale every year. Yeah, it's like it's it's 1:40:31.000 --> 1:40:32.880 it's just doesn't feel like my business. 1:40:33.040 --> 1:40:36.080 You know, I think it's I think it's important to 1:40:36.120 --> 1:40:40.280 mention also that it's it's ceremonial on subsistence it's not 1:40:40.800 --> 1:40:41.920 for the tribe's pleasure. 1:40:42.000 --> 1:40:42.799 It's not for. 1:40:44.520 --> 1:40:47.840 Anything other than it's who we are as a people 1:40:48.479 --> 1:40:52.000 and getting back to that. And it's not about going 1:40:52.040 --> 1:40:55.400 out to do it just because we can. It's it's 1:40:55.600 --> 1:40:58.519 central to the tribe. So that's the importance. So when 1:40:58.520 --> 1:41:00.400 it comes to respect, as far as you know names 1:41:00.400 --> 1:41:03.360 and what to call everybody, like as far as respect goes, 1:41:03.520 --> 1:41:07.920 like I would like to see people understand and get 1:41:07.920 --> 1:41:11.080 to know who the tribes are, Like you want to 1:41:11.080 --> 1:41:15.320 know Maca, go learn about Macaw. Yeah, you know, Joshua 1:41:15.360 --> 1:41:18.240 read Doctor josh Reid has a really great book called 1:41:18.240 --> 1:41:21.640 The Sea Is My Country. Really did extensive research not 1:41:21.680 --> 1:41:24.479 only at Macaw but across other tribes to to get 1:41:24.520 --> 1:41:27.600 their perspective of Macaw. Oh really, and it's it's incredible 1:41:27.760 --> 1:41:29.960 my country. Yeah and so what I haven't even heard 1:41:30.000 --> 1:41:32.280 of that one, but yeah, it's incredible and so we'll 1:41:32.320 --> 1:41:32.960 get your copy. 1:41:33.040 --> 1:41:34.599 But it's it's good. 1:41:34.760 --> 1:41:36.880 So if I mean, if you know that that book, 1:41:37.200 --> 1:41:42.120 that book resonates with your understanding of stuff. Yes, yes, yeah, 1:41:42.800 --> 1:41:44.759 you know what I'm saying, because sometimes you read books 1:41:44.760 --> 1:41:49.320 and come from observers, but then the people being observed 1:41:50.320 --> 1:41:54.000 are like that, like, that's not how we understand. 1:41:53.560 --> 1:41:56.719 It to be. No, Josh is a great partner. 1:41:57.200 --> 1:41:59.520 You really came in on behalf of the tribe and 1:41:59.520 --> 1:42:04.960 and really put together really accurate. You know, I was 1:42:05.000 --> 1:42:07.919 able to tell the story the way it happened. 1:42:08.040 --> 1:42:08.200 You know. 1:42:08.240 --> 1:42:11.240 What's pretty funny is there's this there's this French dude 1:42:11.320 --> 1:42:15.880 named Jacques Cardier and he goes over to the He 1:42:16.000 --> 1:42:19.519 lands over on the Canadian coast north of Maine, goes 1:42:19.600 --> 1:42:22.879 up the Saint Lawrence River in the late fifteen hundreds, 1:42:23.600 --> 1:42:26.080 and he meets these He meets these. 1:42:25.800 --> 1:42:27.240 People called the static Conons. 1:42:27.680 --> 1:42:32.840 They're like a Saint Lawrence Iroquois Iroquois and he's like 1:42:33.080 --> 1:42:35.240 he's got this passage in his journal where he's like. 1:42:35.200 --> 1:42:36.479 Here's what's up with their religion? 1:42:39.920 --> 1:42:43.479 You really like, man, I just don't think they would 1:42:43.479 --> 1:42:45.120 describe the religion that way. 1:42:47.040 --> 1:42:47.679 That's funny. 1:42:47.760 --> 1:42:50.760 He's like they think this this and this and that's it. 1:42:51.240 --> 1:42:53.280 You know, it'd be like if someone it'd be like 1:42:53.520 --> 1:42:56.920 it's as bad as if someone said, hey, I went 1:42:57.360 --> 1:42:58.360 you know, I went to America. 1:42:58.880 --> 1:43:03.439 There's Christians. They think that when God gets mad, he 1:43:03.520 --> 1:43:07.280 floods their planet that's about you know, that's about the 1:43:07.280 --> 1:43:11.839 main baby, that's it. He's like, so there's that explain. 1:43:14.120 --> 1:43:18.000 Yeah, there's a there's a story in that book that 1:43:18.120 --> 1:43:24.240 Josh did that really you know, puts it in perspective 1:43:24.920 --> 1:43:28.200 what the ocean meant to us and means to us today. 1:43:28.760 --> 1:43:30.920 But Captain Meares, when he was you know, doing his 1:43:31.200 --> 1:43:37.000 uh exploring and trading, came into our area and you know, 1:43:37.080 --> 1:43:42.880 met with you know, our head chief. I guess to 1:43:42.920 --> 1:43:46.360 get safe passage through that area because he was he 1:43:46.439 --> 1:43:49.559 was meeting with other tribes coming down Vancouver Island from 1:43:49.600 --> 1:43:52.720 the north to south and they're like, you're going to 1:43:52.760 --> 1:43:56.800 be entering McCaw waters, and you know, they're you want 1:43:56.800 --> 1:44:00.320 to make sure you get their permission. So he had 1:44:00.320 --> 1:44:03.160 a meeting and was trying to get get permission and 1:44:03.240 --> 1:44:05.960 you know trade trading some things too. You know, there's 1:44:06.040 --> 1:44:10.000 like an exchange of exchange of goods there to get 1:44:10.040 --> 1:44:13.599 that safe passage. Well, he tried to low ball us, right, 1:44:13.720 --> 1:44:16.960 he didn't want to pay what he paid other tribes 1:44:17.880 --> 1:44:21.120 for safe passage, and we knew it, and so we 1:44:21.360 --> 1:44:24.360 didn't let him pass. And he was looking for first 1:44:24.560 --> 1:44:26.160 you know, as that was part of us. He's trying 1:44:26.200 --> 1:44:29.400 to gather up first in the northwest, and and so 1:44:30.800 --> 1:44:36.360 you know, our our people stayed out on you know, 1:44:36.400 --> 1:44:41.400 in their canoes and basically kept his ship from transiting 1:44:41.439 --> 1:44:43.040 the Straight of Wanda Fuca entry in the Straight of 1:44:43.080 --> 1:44:48.320 Wana Fuca for several weeks. And then and why that 1:44:48.479 --> 1:44:52.360 was being done, we sent another contingency to go up 1:44:52.439 --> 1:44:54.920 the Straight of Wanda Fuca and Puget Sound and and 1:44:54.920 --> 1:44:58.400 buy up all the first and then we let him 1:44:58.400 --> 1:45:02.840 pass and the price went up when he had to 1:45:03.320 --> 1:45:04.400 come back and deal with us. 1:45:04.479 --> 1:45:07.479 Right, So there's another I don't want I don't know 1:45:07.479 --> 1:45:09.679 why Cardier is on my mind, but there's another thing 1:45:09.760 --> 1:45:12.599 like that with this Cardier dude. He gets the mouth 1:45:12.600 --> 1:45:16.600 of Saint Lawrence and he builds this giant cross and 1:45:18.400 --> 1:45:20.680 they right, like God Save the King or something on there, 1:45:20.720 --> 1:45:22.720 and they pray there and. 1:45:22.720 --> 1:45:23.600 The local. 1:45:24.760 --> 1:45:27.040 The local Indians come up and they're like, what's going 1:45:27.040 --> 1:45:28.960 out with the cross, you know, and he explains to him, 1:45:28.960 --> 1:45:32.640 like everything you see, everything you see is our land, 1:45:33.640 --> 1:45:35.920 and he punts on it and he tells them, no, 1:45:36.120 --> 1:45:40.760 this is just showing people where to cut in. It's 1:45:40.760 --> 1:45:42.719 a it's a navigational. 1:45:42.040 --> 1:45:46.680 Marker, and that's how he explains in his journals like no, no, 1:45:46.680 --> 1:45:47.519 you got me all wrong. 1:45:47.640 --> 1:45:48.519 Yeah, it just. 1:45:48.439 --> 1:45:53.080 Shows you where to turn left, because he don't want 1:45:53.120 --> 1:45:56.960 to get into it. Well, man, I appreciate you guys 1:45:57.040 --> 1:45:58.479 coming on. It means a lot. You'd come out and 1:45:58.479 --> 1:45:59.240 talk about all this. 1:46:00.360 --> 1:46:04.479 We uh, we're happy to you know, get that education 1:46:04.560 --> 1:46:07.960 out there. You know, we we we have a part 1:46:08.000 --> 1:46:10.640 of our culture and and and part of who we 1:46:10.680 --> 1:46:13.840 are is we're not able to realize that right now. Yeah, 1:46:14.800 --> 1:46:18.120 you know, there's we want to be whole, you know, understood. 1:46:18.160 --> 1:46:22.640 We want to carry on what we asked for in 1:46:22.680 --> 1:46:26.599 our treaty. Yeah, it's and it's important. It changes whaling, 1:46:27.320 --> 1:46:33.720 changes lives in our community for the better. It makes 1:46:33.720 --> 1:46:34.639 our community better. 1:46:34.760 --> 1:46:37.240 I can tell it's true. I can tell it's true. Well, 1:46:37.280 --> 1:46:39.320 the guys, thank you all for doing this. Appreciate it 1:46:39.320 --> 1:46:42.040 and thank you for the gift. Oh yeah, you bet. 1:46:42.040 --> 1:46:48.480 These guys brought me some Si Samon jarred up, beautiful Micagold, Macagold. 1:46:49.479 --> 1:46:53.040 You don't have to share, you know. 1:46:53.040 --> 1:46:54.599 That's I'm glad you brought that up because I might 1:46:54.600 --> 1:46:57.559 have felt conflicted later. I might have wanted to slip 1:46:57.600 --> 1:46:59.720 and fill and Nate jar here Man, but I don't 1:47:00.040 --> 1:47:03.080 doing thanks a lot, not doing it all right, Thanks guys, 1:47:03.200 --> 1:47:04.080 thank you, thank you,