1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,240 Speaker 1: Blood on the Tracks is a production of I Heart 2 00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:07,000 Speaker 1: Radio and Double Elvis. John Lennon was a musical genius 3 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:09,479 Speaker 1: and one of the most beloved cultural figures of the 4 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 1: twentieth century. His songs inspired dreamers to imagine, his search 5 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 1: for the truth gave power to the people. But some 6 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:22,639 Speaker 1: thought he dreamed too much. Others thought he was too powerful. 7 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 1: So he was followed, he was threatened, he was declared 8 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 1: a danger to the United States, and in night he 9 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 1: was assassinated. This is his story told by his so 10 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 1: called friends. This is Special Agent Jim Steele with the 11 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:48,879 Speaker 1: Federal Bureau of Investigation work in case number double oh 12 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:52,600 Speaker 1: nine DAP zero eight DAPH zero four nine one. Case 13 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 1: subject as Lennon, John Winston oh No. This information pertains 14 00:00:56,640 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 1: to a period ending December. Interviews subject as Caulfield Holden 15 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: Interview number one DASH one one, Dash five one nine 16 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:20,039 Speaker 1: Dash eight six Spirit Confessional Recall number two December. Now 17 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 1: say what you want about John Lennon. He may have 18 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:26,040 Speaker 1: proven himself a hypocrite when it came to how he 19 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:30,120 Speaker 1: dabbled in politics and protests. He may have said near 20 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: the end of his life that he only got involved 21 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 1: with John Sinclair and Jerry Reuben and all those other 22 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:39,039 Speaker 1: princes because he was so goddamn rich, and he felt 23 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 1: guilty about it. Maybe he wanted to prove that he 24 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 1: was a working class hero after all, even if he 25 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 1: was as much of a working class hero as I 26 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: am Jesus Christ himself. And speaking of Jesus Christ, John 27 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 1: Lennon certainly wasn't the first famous person to take the 28 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 1: Lord's name in vain. And that's a goddamn fact. So 29 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 1: why get sore about it? Why I get sore about 30 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 1: a guy who changes his mind? Why I get sore 31 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 1: about a guy who isn't the same guy he was 32 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 1: ten years before? Do you know how many times I've 33 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 1: changed my mind? Do you know how many things have 34 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 1: come out of my goddamn mouth that aren't true? I mean, 35 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 1: I lie like a dog. Sometimes I can't even help myself. 36 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:34,799 Speaker 1: I just start lying and I can't stop. Sometimes I 37 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:38,799 Speaker 1: can't even tell what's water under the bridge and what's 38 00:02:40,360 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 1: blood on the tracks? Chapter ten, John Lennon and Holden Caufield. Now, 39 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 1: if you really want to hear about it, the first 40 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 1: thing you'll probably want to know is whether or not 41 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 1: Mark David Chapman walked through that door, whether he became 42 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:33,359 Speaker 1: somebody became me for Christ's six the way he believed 43 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: he would, and all that Harry Houdini kind of crap. 44 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: But I don't feel like going into it. If you 45 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: want to know the truth. It seems as though that 46 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 1: kind of stuff always happens right before Christmas, that madman stuff. 47 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 1: It's supposed to be a joyful time of year, the holidays, 48 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 1: that's what they tell you. At least they don't tell 49 00:03:55,680 --> 00:04:00,120 Speaker 1: you how lousy it can be. All the singing and 50 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 1: the phone he smiles, and the phone he cheered, And 51 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 1: if you're back east, back in New York City, it's 52 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 1: goddamn cold too. And then some crumby bastard like Mark 53 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 1: David Chapman goes and makes the season that much worse. Look, 54 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 1: I know all about the son of a bit, Okay, 55 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 1: I know how he was obsessed with my story. He 56 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:27,159 Speaker 1: was obsessed with me, and he didn't just want to 57 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:30,359 Speaker 1: be like me, you know, dress like me and talk 58 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 1: like me, and all that he wanted to become me. 59 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:41,920 Speaker 1: I mean, talk about missing the whole concept of unreliable narrator. Right, 60 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:44,919 Speaker 1: Even I know that I'm not somebody you want to be, 61 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 1: and I am me. Even if I was somebody that 62 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 1: somebody else wanted to be, how would you even start? 63 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 1: He thought he could aim a gun at a famous singer, 64 00:04:56,440 --> 00:05:00,359 Speaker 1: pull the trigger, and what he would transform on the 65 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 1: spot He would be transported into the goddamn pages of 66 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 1: the dog eared paperback he was carrying. I got a 67 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 1: real bang out of that one, I'll tell you. I mean, 68 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 1: can you imagine. First of all, Old Chapman thought John 69 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:21,719 Speaker 1: Lennon was a phony John Lennon. About John Lennon, Now, 70 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:25,160 Speaker 1: I didn't go in for all that bubblegum pop music stuff, 71 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:27,719 Speaker 1: but the Beatles had a few songs that really knocked 72 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:30,480 Speaker 1: me out. I mean, they were all more authentic than 73 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 1: Herman's Hermits or any of the boring groups that came 74 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 1: over from England after them. Those groups would just, I 75 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: don't know, depressing, because even if the song was catching, 76 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:44,280 Speaker 1: you get around to listen to the words and you'd 77 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 1: be so bored you could just vomit. But John Lennon, 78 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 1: he was a witty bastard. I am the Walrus. I mean, 79 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 1: that song is nuts. He was also a real cut 80 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:58,600 Speaker 1: up guy in person too. You know, you'd see him 81 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 1: on those late night talk shows, chewing the fat with 82 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 1: those hot shot hosts, you know, like Dick Cavin and uh, 83 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: what's his name, Mike Douglas. Yeah, Old Lennon was actually 84 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 1: funny and smart. Sure he got in over his head 85 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: when he tried to dabble in politics, but but he 86 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 1: was just trying to do the right thing, you know. 87 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 1: And he did come clean about it when he said 88 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: he only got involved because he felt lousy for having 89 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 1: so much dough. Maybe he wanted to prove that he 90 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 1: was a working class hero after all, even if he 91 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 1: was as much of a working class hero as I 92 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 1: am Jesus Christ himself. And speaking of Jesus Christ, John 93 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:40,359 Speaker 1: Lennon certainly wasn't the first famous person to take the 94 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 1: Lord's name in vain. Okay, that's a goddamn fact, Jesus gross. 95 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 1: So why get sore about it? Why get sore about 96 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 1: a guy who changes his mind? Why get sore about 97 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 1: a guy who wasn't the same guy he was ten 98 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 1: years before? Do you know how many times I've changed 99 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:02,280 Speaker 1: my mind? Do you know how many things have come 100 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:08,279 Speaker 1: out of my goddamn mouth that just aren't true? I mean, 101 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 1: I lie like a dog sometimes sometimes I can't even 102 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 1: help myself. I just start lying and lying, and I 103 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 1: can't stop. John Lennon may have been a lot of things, okay, 104 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: A rock star, a recluse, a prophet for the people, 105 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 1: an enemy of the state, a husband, a father, an artist, 106 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 1: a dreamer, the Walrus, working class hero. Maybe he was 107 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 1: a liar too, but he wasn't a phony. Mark David Chapman. 108 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 1: Now there's a phone. There's a guy who thinks he's 109 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 1: doing the world a favor. A guy who thinks he's 110 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: God all the answers that he is the answer. A 111 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 1: guy who thinks his disappointment in his rage is unique. 112 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 1: I mean, are you kidding me? For Christ's sakes, Chapman 113 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 1: wasn't special, okay, no more special than anyone else. And 114 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 1: he wasn't just a phony. He was a coward. He 115 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 1: shot John Lennon in the back. You can't get more 116 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: yellow than that. Now, I don't hate too many guys, 117 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 1: and there are some guys I hate. For a little while. 118 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: Sometimes I feel like I'm surrounded by jerks. I don't know. 119 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:33,439 Speaker 1: Strad Later from Pensy Pratt. That's an aggress sound Pennsylvania. 120 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 1: By the way, you probably heard of it. The place 121 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 1: runs those advertisements of some guy on a horse jumping 122 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 1: over a fence, like all we did at Pencey Prepp 123 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 1: was played Polo. I never once saw a horse near 124 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 1: that place anyway. Strad later that Prince and Robert Actley. 125 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 1: I've hated both of them once in a while, okay, 126 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: but then time would pass and I wouldn't see him 127 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 1: for a while, and my anger would fade, and then 128 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 1: I'd find myself actually missing the bastards. But I hate 129 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 1: this Mark David Chapman guy. I don't think anyone would 130 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 1: ever even miss him. He's like a goddamn actor. Actors 131 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:19,960 Speaker 1: never acts like people. They go out to Hollywood and 132 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 1: and they prostitute themselves. They really do make me puke. 133 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:27,959 Speaker 1: I'm not kidding Mark David Chapman though. He's even worse 134 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 1: than a Hollywood actor. God, it makes me feel depressed 135 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:35,680 Speaker 1: just thinking about it. Because Mark David Chapman thought he 136 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 1: could pull that one over on everybody, that he could 137 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:41,320 Speaker 1: be somebody. For Christ's sakes, he thought he could be me, 138 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 1: that he would be me. Maybe he wanted to prove 139 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 1: so ironical. The only door he walked through was a 140 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 1: goddamn cell door at Attica. He refused to eat, so 141 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: the guards had to force feed him. And it was 142 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:59,559 Speaker 1: all phony because do you know what Mark David Chapman 143 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 1: really us. He was a goddamn dirty moron, that's what 144 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 1: he was. And he was evil. Do you believe in evil? 145 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:14,200 Speaker 1: If you don't or you're not sure, just look at him. 146 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 1: Look at the guy, Look at his eyes. Listen to 147 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 1: his voice. Hear what he's saying, you'll hear it. Pure evil. 148 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 1: It's not just New York City, Okay, this whole world 149 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 1: is lousy with phonies. They're everywhere New York, Hollywood, Pennsylvania, Hawaii, 150 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 1: even London, England. John Lennon knew that, maybe more than 151 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 1: anyone else in the world. John Lennon hated phonies. The 152 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 1: phony bastards gave him some award, right, this medal from 153 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 1: the Queen in England. People say it's aces this medal, 154 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: but those are the same people who get a kick 155 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: out of shoot in the bull all day. So what 156 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 1: did John do? He sent it back, certainly wasn't the 157 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:34,559 Speaker 1: first famous person. He told the queen he didn't want 158 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 1: a Crumby medal. He didn't like what our country was 159 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 1: doing getting involved in other countries Nigeria, Biafra or somewhere. 160 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't really pay much attention to 161 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 1: that sort of thing, but John did. I should warn't 162 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 1: to be sure about it. John said that society was 163 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 1: run by insane people for insane objectives, that countries were 164 00:11:56,480 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 1: run by maniacs for maniacal ends. He said, if anyone 165 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 1: could put down on paper what our government is doing, 166 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 1: what the American government is doing, the Russians, the Chinese, 167 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: what they're actually trying to do, what they think they're doing, 168 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 1: he said, he'd be very pleased to know what they 169 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 1: all thought they were doing. Look at this country, John's 170 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: adopted country. As soon as he came over here and 171 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 1: started living in New York, he launched a tirade against phonies. 172 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:30,959 Speaker 1: Give me some truth, he said, Give peace a chance. 173 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: He said, Look, here's peace. You can buy and sell 174 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 1: and trade peace on the goddamn open market, just like 175 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 1: you buy and sell and trade war. That made sense 176 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 1: to me. I'm not really a tough guy either. I'm 177 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 1: a pacifist if you want to know the truth. But 178 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:52,440 Speaker 1: did you know what happened when John Lennon told us 179 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 1: war was over? If we want. Nobody wanted to hear 180 00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 1: about it. So he went and got himself good and 181 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 1: drunk a long while, and then occupied himself with family 182 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 1: life just to escape all the phonies. This country couldn't 183 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 1: be bothered to give a good God damn. Just a 184 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 1: month before old Chapman, that coward son of a bit 185 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: shot John dead on a sidewalk in this dirty city, 186 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:25,839 Speaker 1: the country went and elected this guy Reagan. That killed me, 187 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 1: Really it did. Reagan. I mean, talk about a phony. 188 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 1: The guy's an actor. Literally, you all see that movie 189 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 1: Bedtime for Bonzo that came out the same year my 190 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 1: book did Bedtime for Bonzo more like Bedtime for Democracy. 191 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 1: Reagan was just another one of those Hollywood prostitutes. I mean, 192 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 1: don't even get me started. He's not a real person, 193 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 1: and yet the majority of Americans thought that a phony 194 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:01,560 Speaker 1: Hollywood prostitute would be best to serve in the highest 195 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:06,440 Speaker 1: office of the free world. Like I said, I could 196 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 1: care less about politics and all that, but you didn't 197 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 1: have to be a goddamn political scientist to see what 198 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 1: was going on. Reagan thought Lennon's murder was street crime, 199 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 1: a random act of violence, and he used it as 200 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 1: proof that the country didn't have a gun problem, It 201 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 1: had a street crime problem. The street criminal, the drug pusher, 202 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 1: the mobster, the corrupt policeman, public official. They formed their 203 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 1: own criminal subculture. They contribute to and they prosper in 204 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 1: the climate of lawlessness. They need each other, they use 205 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 1: each other, they protect each other. I mean read between 206 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 1: the lines. To Reagan, there were people who mattered and 207 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 1: people who did it. People who belonged and people that 208 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 1: did it. The United States of America was being remade 209 00:14:56,680 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 1: for a very particular type of person. Morning in America, 210 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 1: my ass. Welcome to the nineteen eighties. Of course, it 211 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 1: was some of the phoniest bullshit ever peddled by a 212 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 1: sitting president. But what do you expect from an actor. 213 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 1: I mean, Jesus Christ, if you think about it too much, 214 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 1: it'll really depress you. And then Reagan went and got 215 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 1: himself shot just a few months after John was assassinated, 216 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 1: and the shots were fired apparently at President Reagan as 217 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 1: he was coming out of the Washington Killdon Hotel this afternoon. 218 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 1: Six bullets in two seconds. This real Prince John Hinckley 219 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 1: was the guy that did it. He was just as 220 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 1: much of a lunatic as our guy Chapman. He just 221 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 1: started shooting into a crowd, the President's entourage. He shot 222 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 1: a cop, a secret Service agent, He got the Press 223 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 1: secretary in the head. His last bullet bounced off the 224 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 1: President's limo and caught Reagan under his arm. It went 225 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 1: into his lung and just missed his heart. For God's sake, 226 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 1: Hinkley thought he was going to impress Jodie Foster, another 227 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 1: phony actor. She'd been in this movie Taxi Driver where 228 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 1: she plays a prostitute and some crazy vigilante kills her pimp. 229 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 1: It thinks he saved her from a life of exploitation. 230 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 1: And I guess that in Hinckley's mind, he thought he 231 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 1: was gonna suddenly become a part of Jodie Foster's life 232 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 1: by shooting the goddamn president of the United States, just 233 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 1: like Chapman thought he was gonna become me. Jesus Christ. 234 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 1: I mean, you can't make this ship up, Jesus Christ. Lunatics, morons, 235 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 1: crumby bastards. They're always ruining everything. Do you know what 236 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 1: John Lennon really had planned what he was going to 237 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 1: do in nine eighty one, and in two and in 238 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 1: Night three. What he was going to do in ninete 239 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:07,119 Speaker 1: in two thousand ten, Well, first he was going to 240 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:10,200 Speaker 1: show up at the Clashes seventeen nights stand at Bonds 241 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 1: Casino over on Broadway in the summer of eighty one. 242 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 1: That was going to be how he got pulled back 243 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:18,919 Speaker 1: into the limelight, back into the public eye, you know, 244 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:25,720 Speaker 1: and back into politics. I'm serious. Sure, Joe Strummer sang 245 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 1: all about phony Beatlemania and no Elvis, Beatles or the 246 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 1: Rolling Stones, but he always let John off the hook. 247 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 1: Joe looked up to John, idolized him. Even John's all right, 248 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 1: he always said. And so it would make perfect sense 249 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 1: at the time in one for old John to appear 250 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 1: on stage with Joe and the class, just like he 251 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 1: had appeared on stage withouton years before. And John would 252 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:54,920 Speaker 1: have fun with it, you know. He would come out 253 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 1: on stage to the opening chords of London Calling, and 254 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 1: he even sang along with the phony Beatlemania line cheeky Bastard, 255 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 1: because John knew that Beatlemania was phony. Rock and roll 256 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 1: music was a lot like Hollywood, a bunch of phonies 257 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 1: prostituting themselves. And being on stage again at that over 258 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 1: sold club in front of thousands of New Yorkers singing 259 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 1: Joe's songs of defiance. He would know that he, goddamn 260 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 1: John Lennon was potentially crossing over into phony territory himself. 261 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:31,359 Speaker 1: But Joe Strummer in the clash would throw him a lifeline. 262 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 1: You don't know how many things have come out of 263 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 1: my God, aren't true. Meanwhile, Breagan would be calling the 264 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:46,160 Speaker 1: Soviet Union at the evil Empire while this whole Cold 265 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 1: War thing was heating up. But if history teaches anything 266 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:53,880 Speaker 1: it teaches the simple minded of peacement or wishful thinking 267 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 1: about our adversaries is folly. They were setting up strategic 268 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:03,199 Speaker 1: missiles in base for Christ's sakes, and world annihilation was 269 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 1: around every single corner. Sure, I know what I said 270 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 1: in that book, I'm sort of glad that they've got 271 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 1: the atomic bomb invented. If there's another war, I'm going 272 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:15,040 Speaker 1: to sit right the hell on top of it and 273 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:18,159 Speaker 1: all that. But like I said, do you know how 274 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:23,359 Speaker 1: many times I've changed my mind? This was series. I 275 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:27,399 Speaker 1: mean even I got a little nervous. But old John Lennon, 276 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:30,919 Speaker 1: he wouldn't have been able to take it anymore. He 277 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 1: would have put peace back out in the marketplace again. 278 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 1: He would have dusted off his bullhorn, his handmade signs. 279 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:42,199 Speaker 1: He would have rallied his people again, much to the 280 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 1: dismay of that lousy Reagan, who didn't have a legal 281 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:47,960 Speaker 1: reason to eject John from the country the way that 282 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:52,720 Speaker 1: Nixon had a decade earlier. John would have been terrified 283 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 1: of impending nuclear destruction, and he would have wanted everyone 284 00:19:56,600 --> 00:20:00,960 Speaker 1: else to be terrified into action alongside him. He'd need 285 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:04,399 Speaker 1: a groundswell of support, strengthen numbers and all that, and 286 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:08,200 Speaker 1: so to entice the American people to stand with him, 287 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:12,200 Speaker 1: to stand against fear and corruption. He would have given 288 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 1: everyone a reason to give a good goddamn This time around, 289 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:19,920 Speaker 1: John would have bought up billboard space all across the country, 290 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 1: from Times Square to Sunset Boulevard to Stump for the 291 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: support of his fellow man. They were gonna march on Washington. 292 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:34,680 Speaker 1: They were gonna demand change. They were gonna look Reagan 293 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 1: in his goddamn lousy face and demand change. It would 294 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:44,240 Speaker 1: have been the biggest mass protest in the history of 295 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 1: the United States. In Nix and John's billboards would promise 296 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 1: a reward that no one would be able to resist. 297 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 1: Show up raise your fist, Join the march, called for 298 00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 1: the end of Reagan's fear mongering, and John was going 299 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 1: to deliver the first live concert from the Beatles in 300 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 1: nearly twenty years. We'll be right back after this word 301 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:26,879 Speaker 1: word word. Now. Evil doesn't just go away simply because 302 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:31,120 Speaker 1: no one is paying attention to it. Believe me, evil 303 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 1: is always there. That madman stuff is never truly gone. 304 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 1: And fact so in six while Ronald Reagan was focused 305 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 1: on the Evil Empire and John Lennon was focused on 306 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:50,199 Speaker 1: the evils of Ronald Reagan, the evil that is that 307 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:54,080 Speaker 1: crumb bum mark, David Chapman still had his sights on 308 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:57,880 Speaker 1: John Lennon. If we're talking about what would have happened 309 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:01,360 Speaker 1: had John never died, then that means that Chapman never 310 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:05,400 Speaker 1: would have actually followed through with shooting John. In let's 311 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,160 Speaker 1: say he got cold feet right popped on a plane 312 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,640 Speaker 1: back to Honolulu. But he still thought about it all 313 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 1: the time. He still thought about little else than shooting John. 314 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:20,159 Speaker 1: He would close his eyes at night, the jerk and 315 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 1: visualize walking up behind John with his charter arms pistol. 316 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 1: Isn't the same guy Some people go to sleep counting 317 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 1: sheep or really given it to someone, you know, Mark 318 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:37,520 Speaker 1: David Chapman would go to sleep murdering John Lennon, the 319 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:42,400 Speaker 1: bastard for six years. He would have done that every night. 320 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:47,399 Speaker 1: He'd hear that voice in his head, the one that 321 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 1: just said, over and over the phone, he must die. 322 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: Set the catcher in the rye, the phony must die. 323 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:59,719 Speaker 1: Set the catcher in the rye. Freaking goddamn lunatic. Un 324 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:03,640 Speaker 1: He wouldn't say anything to his wife about it either, 325 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:05,960 Speaker 1: Oh no, on account if he didn't want or learning 326 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:09,879 Speaker 1: the authorities. He knew he was going to murder John Lennon, 327 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 1: and he wasn't about to be stopped. It was only 328 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:17,720 Speaker 1: a matter of time. John would have been all over 329 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: the news again. He'd be making new music, some of 330 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:24,160 Speaker 1: the best music in his solo career. His songs would 331 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 1: be of political and social importance again, and he'd even 332 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 1: used The Clash as his backing band on a record 333 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 1: he released called Revolution four about a guy who isn't 334 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:40,560 Speaker 1: the same guy he was ten years before. The record 335 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 1: would be so goddamn popular that it knocked Thriller down 336 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:46,639 Speaker 1: a peg. And don't you dare say cut the crab 337 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,719 Speaker 1: to me? Okay, this is an alternate reality from what 338 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,719 Speaker 1: you people in the so called real world. No, so 339 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,679 Speaker 1: the clash stayed together and they backed John Lennon and 340 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,240 Speaker 1: continue to be the only band that matters for many 341 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 1: more years. Anyway, John's billboards were all over the place, right, 342 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:07,480 Speaker 1: He even got some billboards way down in Honolulu, Jesus Christ, 343 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 1: and there they were just staring Chapman in his lousy face. 344 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 1: Soon enough, John was being interviewed most nights by the 345 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:19,359 Speaker 1: major news networks because he had very publicly hitched his 346 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 1: wagon to that Great Peace March for Global Nuclear Disarmament. 347 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 1: They were a grassroots organization that was in the middle 348 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 1: of a nine month walk from Los Angeles to Washington, 349 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:34,200 Speaker 1: d C. Now, John was by far the walk's most 350 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 1: famous participant, even if he didn't do the entire thirty 351 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 1: seven hundred mile walk, only the last little bit, because 352 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,120 Speaker 1: he still had a little bit of phony in him, right, 353 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 1: maybe he wanted to prove that he was a working 354 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:52,200 Speaker 1: class hero. Anyway, he and Yoko were with the group 355 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 1: for a few weeks, enough time to really raise its profile, 356 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:58,680 Speaker 1: you know. And by the time they reached Washington, d C. 357 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:04,359 Speaker 1: The Great East March for Global Nuclear disarmament was millions strong. 358 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 1: I'm serious. You should have seen the goddamn thing. The 359 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 1: streets were alive, and just as promised. When the group 360 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 1: got to d C in November and stood outside the 361 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,880 Speaker 1: White House chanting for Reagan to stick his crumby had 362 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:25,919 Speaker 1: out the door so many of them that traffic was 363 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:31,880 Speaker 1: completely choked up for miles in every direction. Just as promised, 364 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 1: the Beatles appeared John Paul George and Ringo. I don't 365 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 1: know exactly how they got the goddamn permit to do it. 366 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 1: They probably just did it. You know, fifty million Beatles 367 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 1: fans can't be wrong, right. They set up a riser 368 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:51,520 Speaker 1: on the lawn of the White House and played for 369 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 1: about ninety minutes. They did Revolution, of course, as cheesy 370 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 1: as it sounds, and they did get back, and this 371 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 1: one song that really knocked me out. I Want You, 372 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 1: She's so heavy, that's about us. Far from that. I 373 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 1: want to hold your hand garbage as you can get. 374 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,920 Speaker 1: Huh Jesus Christ. They played I Want You for close 375 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:17,639 Speaker 1: to twenty minutes alone, just that same drone, on and on, 376 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:21,320 Speaker 1: and you know that the longer they played that one song, 377 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:25,159 Speaker 1: the more insane it drove. Old Ronnie Kid inside the 378 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:31,640 Speaker 1: White House. The people and the crowd went berserk. I've 379 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,159 Speaker 1: never seen that many people gathered in one place before, 380 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 1: let alone that many people losing their minds like that. 381 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,679 Speaker 1: But God damn Beatles. They said it would never happen again, 382 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 1: but it did, and millions witnessed it, and Old Reagan 383 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 1: felt like a prized horses ass. Which was the point. 384 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:57,000 Speaker 1: The masses were right, the masses were good, and the 385 00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,280 Speaker 1: masses were going to take over the country right there. 386 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,160 Speaker 1: But nothing that is right and good has ever been easy, 387 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 1: you know that. Once the concert had ended, John, once again, 388 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:11,760 Speaker 1: looking to prove he was a man of the people, 389 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:16,639 Speaker 1: walked off stage and into the crowd, and he felt 390 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 1: guilty about it. He was flanked by a small entourage. 391 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:24,359 Speaker 1: The entourage was moving him through the audience, and ideally 392 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,240 Speaker 1: they move him right past the secret servicemen who would 393 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,719 Speaker 1: allow for a monumental face to face between Ronald Reagan 394 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:34,560 Speaker 1: and John Lennon. The press had been talking it up 395 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 1: for weeks. Reagan and Lennon a summit of epic proportions. 396 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:44,359 Speaker 1: John was moving slowly because he was stopping so often 397 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:47,720 Speaker 1: to shake hands, except hugs and take photos. With fans 398 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:52,160 Speaker 1: and the press, and no one noticed Mark David Chapman, 399 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,399 Speaker 1: Because Mark David Chapman was the kind of guy that 400 00:27:55,560 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 1: never got noticed. There was no reason and to notice him. 401 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,159 Speaker 1: He shaved his hair into one of those mohawks, you know, 402 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,160 Speaker 1: kind of like the neros and taxi driver, that Travis 403 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,399 Speaker 1: Biggle character who inspired that lunatic Kinkley in the first place, 404 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,160 Speaker 1: but also the kind Joe Strummer war in the liner 405 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 1: notes of the Revolution eighty four album. So nobody even 406 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:21,520 Speaker 1: looked at Chapman twice. Chapman knew, just like the whole 407 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:25,639 Speaker 1: world knew where John Lennon was going to be that day, Washington, 408 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 1: d C. The White House. Chapman knew where, and he 409 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,840 Speaker 1: knew where. He had flown into New York the day before, 410 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:37,800 Speaker 1: and now he was there, another anonymous face in the craft. 411 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 1: Chapman began to cut a line for the sea of 412 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 1: people right and make his way towards a stage, towards John. 413 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 1: As John's path been further from the stage and closer 414 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 1: to the White House, so too did Chapman's path fear 415 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:57,840 Speaker 1: to follow. Chapman got closer, so close he could hear 416 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 1: John's voice in conversation with the people around him, Chapman 417 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,160 Speaker 1: pulled down the zipper of his jacket to open it up. 418 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,880 Speaker 1: He kept walking, and his fat shoulders kept shoving into 419 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 1: the backs and heads of people nearby. Then he slowly 420 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 1: stuck his hand inside his jacket and felt the charter 421 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:20,200 Speaker 1: arms pistol nestled in a pocket. That's when people began 422 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 1: to notice him. One of the guys flanking Old John 423 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 1: spotted Chapman with his hand in his jacket and knew 424 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 1: what was about to happen. Next. He yelled out, watch 425 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:33,640 Speaker 1: that guy and pointed directly at Chapman. Another lunge for 426 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 1: Chapman and tried to grab him by the shoulders. He's 427 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:39,959 Speaker 1: got a gunness, someone shouted. Chapman panicked. He began ranting 428 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,640 Speaker 1: out loud like a raving lunatic, which he was ranting 429 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:47,000 Speaker 1: over and over that the phone he must die. The 430 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 1: other Beatles had long since ducked for cover, hidden behind 431 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 1: this person or that, and John was literally being whisked 432 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,040 Speaker 1: away at the very moment when Chapman wrenched the pistol 433 00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:00,479 Speaker 1: from inside his jacket, pointed it into the team chaos, 434 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 1: and fired four times. And that's all I'm gonna tell 435 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 1: you about that. Actual don't even help myself. I could 436 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 1: probably tell you what happened next in this particular version 437 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 1: of what could have been. You know, who was shot, 438 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 1: who died, who lived, But I don't feel like it. 439 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 1: I really don't. That stuff may interest you, but it 440 00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 1: certainly doesn't interest me too much right now. Look, I'm 441 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 1: sorry that I talked so much about it. I'm sorry 442 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:42,880 Speaker 1: I told you all these things that didn't actually happen, 443 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 1: the things that would have happened had John not been 444 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 1: shot on that December evening in But the whole thing 445 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:54,960 Speaker 1: doesn't even turn out the way you think anyway. It 446 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,480 Speaker 1: had just depressed the hell out of you. For Christ's sakes, 447 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:33,080 Speaker 1: trust me, I know. August two thousand, Alden, New York, 448 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 1: Mark David Chapman sat before the parole board at the 449 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:41,320 Speaker 1: Wendy Correctional Facility, a maximum security prison located just east 450 00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 1: of Buffalo. At sixty five years old, Chapman's hair was 451 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:48,600 Speaker 1: thinner than it had been in years past. His leathery 452 00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:52,200 Speaker 1: skin hung desperately to an elongated neck below his chin. 453 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 1: It is forty years behind bars. He'd gone on hunger strikes, 454 00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:02,480 Speaker 1: shaved his head and violently destroyed property. These days, his 455 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 1: tact was less deranged in stability, a more quiet acceptance. 456 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 1: He said a little prayer to himself under his breath, 457 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:14,280 Speaker 1: shortly before the parole Board began its review. He knew 458 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,200 Speaker 1: it amount. It's a little more than hot air. People 459 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 1: rarely listened to Mark David Chapman anymore, not even God. 460 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 1: The parole board, on the other hand, they were legally 461 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 1: obligated to listen to Chapman every two years. It was 462 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:31,920 Speaker 1: the eleventh time Chapman had made a bid for freedom 463 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,520 Speaker 1: every two years since the year two thousand, when he 464 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:37,160 Speaker 1: first became eligible for parole. In the course of his 465 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 1: twenty years to life sentence, Chapman had made the case 466 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 1: that he was a changed man. He saw the error 467 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 1: of his ways. He knew what he did was wrong. 468 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:49,960 Speaker 1: He was ashamed. He had accepted Jesus Christ as his lord, 469 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,760 Speaker 1: and safe here, he wanted to walk out beyond the 470 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,800 Speaker 1: walls of the prison and spread a good word. He 471 00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,360 Speaker 1: had a wife waiting for him out there, a wife 472 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:00,720 Speaker 1: who had stuck by him the entire hier time he 473 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,719 Speaker 1: was on the inside, first at Attica and then an 474 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 1: upstate New York at Wendy, where he'd been ever since 475 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:10,120 Speaker 1: two thousand twelve. But Chapman's wife would have to wait 476 00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:13,200 Speaker 1: a little while longer, because waiting for him at his 477 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,320 Speaker 1: parole hearing was the same thing that was always waiting 478 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:19,240 Speaker 1: for him at all of his parole hearings, and this 479 00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:23,280 Speaker 1: thing took precedence over any of Chapman's own personal wants 480 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:33,440 Speaker 1: and desires. A statement from John Lennon's widow, Yoko Ono, naturally, 481 00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 1: Yogo opposed the parole of her husband's killer. Yogo expressed 482 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,760 Speaker 1: concern for her safety and the safety of her family. 483 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:44,520 Speaker 1: She was also concerned for the safety of the assassin himself, 484 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,040 Speaker 1: who may find himself at the mercy of grieving angry 485 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:52,440 Speaker 1: Beatles fans if he was ever released. But mostly Yoko 486 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,160 Speaker 1: didn't want that dirty rat fuck to ever taste another 487 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:57,960 Speaker 1: breath of freedom for as long as he lived, Enjoy 488 00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,760 Speaker 1: the rest of your insignificant life, ship Bird, And so 489 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 1: for the eleventh time Mark David Chapman asked for another 490 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 1: chance in four The eleventh time Mark David Chapman was denied. 491 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:14,360 Speaker 1: Just months later, in December of two thousand and twenty. 492 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:17,120 Speaker 1: Fans of John Lennon and the Beatles gathered in a 493 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 1: two point five acre section of New York Central Park 494 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:24,759 Speaker 1: known as Strawberry Fields, named after one of John's most 495 00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:28,920 Speaker 1: beloved Beatles songs. This section of Central Park is dedicated 496 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:32,880 Speaker 1: to John's memory as well as to the universal ideals 497 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 1: of peace and love. The centerpiece of the area features 498 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:41,800 Speaker 1: a mosaic on the ground with one word written inside imagine. 499 00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:47,160 Speaker 1: It was December eight. The fans had gathered in the 500 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:51,080 Speaker 1: midst of the COVID nineteen pandemic to commemorate the forty 501 00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:56,000 Speaker 1: anniversary of John's assassination. They wore face masks and socially 502 00:34:56,040 --> 00:35:00,719 Speaker 1: distanced themselves at six ft apart. They placed flower as candles, 503 00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:03,839 Speaker 1: photos and letters to John over the circular mosaic. While 504 00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:08,879 Speaker 1: fighting back tears, they played guitars, sang songs, and did 505 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:12,160 Speaker 1: with the one word written inside the mosaic inspired them 506 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:16,120 Speaker 1: to do. Imagined. They imagined what it would have been 507 00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:19,360 Speaker 1: like had John Lennon lived. They imagined a world that 508 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:23,239 Speaker 1: gave peace a chance. They imagined a society that, to 509 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:27,640 Speaker 1: paraphrase Dave marsh and the Rolling Stone magazine, stopped seeing 510 00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:32,759 Speaker 1: people as symbols and started seeing them as people. Admittedly, 511 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:36,600 Speaker 1: it was hard to imagine such things peace over war, 512 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:40,880 Speaker 1: love over hate, optimism as the default human condition. It 513 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 1: all felt like fantasy, not attainable. John Lennon had shown 514 00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:48,920 Speaker 1: the world that it was possible. It was all possible 515 00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:52,920 Speaker 1: if you wanted it. No one wanted it. The people 516 00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:56,160 Speaker 1: at Strawberry Fields on that cold December day wanted it, 517 00:35:56,160 --> 00:36:00,680 Speaker 1: though they kept imagining it, because without that ability to imagine, 518 00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:06,040 Speaker 1: without hope, all that's left is fear, destruction and Blood 519 00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:23,760 Speaker 1: on the Tracks. Kay, all right, everybody, thanks for listening 520 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,000 Speaker 1: to Blood on the Tracks. If you like what you hear, 521 00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:28,320 Speaker 1: be sure to find and follow Blood on the Tracks 522 00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,799 Speaker 1: on Apple podcast, I Heart Radio, app, Amazon Music, or 523 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,960 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. On this season two of 524 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,640 Speaker 1: Blood on the Tracks, we'll be releasing ten episodes on 525 00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,760 Speaker 1: the Incredible life of John Lennon, with a new episode 526 00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:43,880 Speaker 1: every Thursday. You can also binge all ten episodes of 527 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,520 Speaker 1: season one on the insane story of the notorious record 528 00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:50,520 Speaker 1: producer Phil Spector right now. It's available wherever you get 529 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,440 Speaker 1: your podcasts. This episode of Blood on the Tracks was 530 00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:56,600 Speaker 1: written by Zeth Lundie and hosted an executive produced by 531 00:36:56,640 --> 00:37:00,720 Speaker 1: me Jake Brennan, also executive produced by Brady sad Story 532 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:03,880 Speaker 1: and copy editing by Pat Healy. This episode was mixed 533 00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:07,880 Speaker 1: by Colin Fleming. Additional music and score elements by Ryan Spreaker. 534 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:12,160 Speaker 1: This episode featured Travis Dowdy is holding coffeeld Blood on 535 00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:14,880 Speaker 1: the Tracks is produced by Double Elvis and partnership with 536 00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:18,279 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. Sources for this episode are available at 537 00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:20,719 Speaker 1: Double Elvis dot com on the Blood on the Track 538 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,279 Speaker 1: series page. If you want to chat about this show 539 00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:25,320 Speaker 1: or hear more about the other shows, we're making a 540 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,920 Speaker 1: Double Elvis tap in on Instagram at double Elvis, on 541 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:32,239 Speaker 1: Twitter at Double Elvis FM, and now on Twitch, where 542 00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:34,960 Speaker 1: we're streaming three days a week. At Twitch dot tv 543 00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:39,359 Speaker 1: slash Double Elvis Podcasts. And finally, be sure to check 544 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:42,440 Speaker 1: out disgrace Land, the award winning music and true crime 545 00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:46,000 Speaker 1: podcast that I also host. Disgraceland is available only on 546 00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:49,080 Speaker 1: the free Amazon Music agap. To hear tons of insane 547 00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:51,799 Speaker 1: stories about your favorite musicians getting away with murder and 548 00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:55,920 Speaker 1: behaving very badly, go to Amazon dot com slash disgrace Land, 549 00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:58,480 Speaker 1: or if you have an Echo device, just say Alexa 550 00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:11,160 Speaker 1: play the disgrace Land podcast welcome M. Dip Grady or 551 00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:11,800 Speaker 1: dand