1 00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:13,039 Speaker 1: A missing trio of young girls age nine, fourteen, and seventeen. 2 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:18,080 Speaker 1: What do we know about their disappearance? How could three 3 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: girls be overcome and kidnapped at once? But we say 4 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 1: the names. It's not just them. There are moms, dad's, 5 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:33,879 Speaker 1: sisters and brothers with broken hearts waiting for answers. Julie 6 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:41,640 Speaker 1: Anne Mosley, Renee Wilson, Rachel Trelissa. One of these girls, 7 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: as young as nine years old, is gone. Crime Stories 8 00:00:53,720 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. The girls seventeen year old Rachel Calisa, 9 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 1: the former Mary Rachel Arnold, fourteen year old Renee Wilson, 10 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: and nine year old Julie Anne Moseley Banny's December twenty third, 11 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 1: After telling their families they were going shopping, Their abandoned 12 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: car was found that afternoon in a parking area of 13 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:20,480 Speaker 1: Seminary South shopping Center. The next day, the only major 14 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 1: lead in the case developed when a handwritten note was 15 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: received stating the three had gone to Houston. Police weren't 16 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:27,760 Speaker 1: sure if the note had been written freely. It has 17 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 1: since been sent to the FBI lab in Washington for analysis. Tuesday, 18 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 1: a Justin Mann found some undergarments near a stream west 19 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 1: of justin near Texas Highway one fifty seven. They were 20 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 1: not there Christmas Day, but Renee Wilson's parents examined the 21 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:44,120 Speaker 1: clothing and determined it did not belong to the missing girls. 22 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 1: Some of our friends called us this morning. They asked 23 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 1: me if we'd heard about down the Knees, and I 24 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 1: told him no, something. We called in here and they 25 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: taught us we could come look at them. What happened 26 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: When you looked at the clothing. They're not Renee, they're 27 00:01:56,480 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 1: not Juliets. I know, renee and heavy thing like that, 28 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 1: and they're bigger and renee and heavy thing that color 29 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 1: green like the panties for I know it sounds crazy 30 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 1: to a lot of people, but if you showed me underwear, 31 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:15,640 Speaker 1: I would know whether it belonged to my twins twelve 32 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: years old, John, David and Lucy. Because I buy their underwear. 33 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 1: I know exactly what they have. I know when they 34 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 1: outgrow their underwear. I know it sizes, what colors, the works. 35 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 1: So when a mom says, no, those don't belong to 36 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 1: my daughter, the mom knows you were just hearing our 37 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 1: friends at WFAATV. That was Mike Miller reporting on the 38 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 1: so called fort Worth Trio. I mean and see Grace, 39 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 1: this is crime Stories. Thank you for being with us, 40 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:51,799 Speaker 1: Joining me an all star panel, crime online dot com 41 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 1: investigative reporter Dave mac the founder of the Cold Case 42 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:03,839 Speaker 1: Research Institute. Forensic expert Cheryl McCullum, Cloyd Stiger thirty six years, 43 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 1: Seattle PD, twenty two years, homicide author Seattle's Forgotten serial 44 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 1: killer Gary Jane Grant. You can find him at Cloyd 45 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 1: Steiger dot com. Special guests joining me, Kim Cadell. If 46 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 1: it hadn't been for Kim, I wouldn't even know about 47 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: this case. She reached me on Facebook. Sandy Harcom, Julie's aunt, 48 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 1: and Richard Wilson, Renee's dad. First to Cheryl McCallum, Joining me, Cheryl, 49 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 1: I want to get an understanding, a forensic unberstanding of 50 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 1: the disappearance of these three girls. Very very rare for 51 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: three girls to go missing like this. It's extremely rare, Nancy. 52 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: And what is shocking to me is they didn't plan 53 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 1: this like days in advance. This was something that happened 54 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 1: pretty quickly, and the nine year old literally called her 55 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: mom began, can I please go? Can I please go? 56 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 1: To hang out with these teenage girls. So again it 57 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 1: wasn't something that people knew about for a few days. 58 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 1: We know they made it to them all. We know 59 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 1: they shopped for Christmas presents because those were found in 60 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 1: the car, which incidentally was locked when they found it. 61 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 1: But there's no video of them. There's no you know, 62 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 1: fingerprints off the car that anybody has told us about. 63 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 1: So at this point all we have is a car. 64 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:35,800 Speaker 1: And then the next day a letter shows up at 65 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 1: Rachel's home addressed to her husband, to Sandy Harcom, this 66 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:43,839 Speaker 1: is nine year old Julian Mosley's aunt, Sandy, again, thank 67 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 1: you for being with us. What happened that day? You've 68 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:49,839 Speaker 1: got two girls about two and a half years apart, 69 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 1: Renee Wilson, Rachel Trelisa one fourteen one seventeen, and then 70 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 1: you've got your niece, Julie Anne Mosley. First, how did 71 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 1: Leanne get hooked up with them on a trip to 72 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:05,720 Speaker 1: them all? And did the girls all know each other? 73 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:11,599 Speaker 1: Rachel and Renee knew each other, and Julie moved across 74 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 1: the street from Renee's grandmother, and Renee was there quite 75 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: a bit. In fact, I thought Renee lived there until 76 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 1: the girls disappeared because she was, you know, there quite often. Also, 77 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:29,720 Speaker 1: Julie's older brother and Renee were going together and he 78 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 1: had given her a promise. Ring that morning, Rachel came 79 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 1: by asked Renee if she wanted to go, and Julie 80 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 1: was there and she wanted to go, and she called 81 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 1: my sister and just begged and begged and bagged. My 82 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 1: sister wasn't work and she finally said, okay, just be 83 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 1: home by six. There were other kids there, Julie's older sister, Janne, 84 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 1: it was asked to go. There was an older girl 85 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:01,720 Speaker 1: even down the street that was asked to and the 86 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:04,039 Speaker 1: older girl had Choe and she said, well, I'll just 87 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 1: meet you there later. So it wasn't just you know, 88 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 1: those three, but there are a lot of kids that 89 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 1: were invited by day. So you know, this was at 90 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 1: a time where it was absolutely fine to go to 91 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: the mall and walk around. Cheryl McCallum, I remember one 92 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 1: of my first jobs was working at Sears at the mall, 93 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 1: and I would be inside working and I would see 94 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 1: groups of teams just wandering around, not getting in trouble, 95 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:37,599 Speaker 1: just going in and out of stores, going to the 96 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 1: candy store, going to the food court. It was a 97 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:45,720 Speaker 1: very innocent way to pass time and hang out right, 98 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:48,560 Speaker 1: no question about it. And Nancy, I wanted to tell 99 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:51,479 Speaker 1: you something else. I've got a sixteen year old and 100 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 1: I've got a nine year old meet, and my nine 101 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 1: year old meet. All she wants to do is be 102 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 1: around Caroline McCollum. She wants the dress like her Caliker. 103 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:04,040 Speaker 1: They were a hair like her. So I can totally 104 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:07,920 Speaker 1: see even where these teenagers would have fun and letting 105 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 1: her tag along. So this trip to the mall, looking 106 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:14,679 Speaker 1: at records, looking at clothes, going and getting some Christmas presents, 107 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 1: this was going to be a fabulous afternoon. To Dave Matt, 108 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com investigative reporter, exactly where is this, 109 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 1: what's the name of the mall and where is it located? Okay, 110 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 1: this is actually in Fort Worth, you know, in that 111 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 1: Fort Dallas Fort Worth area. The mall at the time 112 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 1: was a very popular shopping mall. You know, back back 113 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 1: in the day we had big, big shopping malls and 114 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 1: this was one of those. It had. One of the 115 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 1: anchor stores was the Fears which is where they parked by. 116 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 1: The mall's name was Seminary South they'd actually gone to 117 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 1: an Army Navy store on the way to the mall 118 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: in Fort Worth. Then they arrived at the mall where 119 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: again so they parked at the Sears parking area in 120 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 1: two seminary South Mall. Listen, there's some has happened to him. 121 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 1: I know it because it's just not like them. They 122 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 1: wouldn't have thrown off. Nobody heard nothing from them. Well 123 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:19,679 Speaker 1: nine days ago I thought maybe they had just went somewhere, 124 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 1: But now I don't believe they have. I believe they've 125 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 1: been picked up by somebody and being held and that 126 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 1: have been heard or something. You haven't given up, hope, No, 127 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:34,320 Speaker 1: huh no, hope, you just when I'm coming back home. Meanwhile, 128 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 1: police continue checking every possible lead. A reward fund has 129 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 1: been established with a Forest Hill State Bank in an 130 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 1: effort to prompt even more information. Floyd Stiger with me 131 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 1: thirty six years Seattle PD, including homicide and author Cloyd 132 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:51,200 Speaker 1: the mall. You know, Cloyd, I've just been working on 133 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 1: this book so hard. Don't be a victim. It comes 134 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 1: out in June, and there is a whole chapter, one 135 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:00,079 Speaker 1: of the longest chapters and the one I had to 136 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:04,960 Speaker 1: research almost the most was about out and about shopping 137 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 1: at malls because it's well, it looks so friendly, it 138 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 1: is really full of pitfalls. A lot of people have 139 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 1: been abducted from malls, a lot of people have been 140 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 1: victimized at malls. Now we know that they parked outside 141 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:24,319 Speaker 1: a Sears, which is one of the probably four big 142 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: anchor stores in the mall. There's usually one in every corner, 143 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:32,559 Speaker 1: like a Macy's or at that time Belks or Sears. 144 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 1: Long story short, that's where they parked, Cloyd. When I 145 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:44,200 Speaker 1: think about it, they were sitting ducks. Three young girls 146 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 1: walking into the mall alone and then coming back out alone. Yeah. 147 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: Well that's the same thing that attracts teenagers to malls. 148 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 1: Is the same thing is what it attracts predators to 149 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:57,119 Speaker 1: malls because it's what we call a target ridge environment. 150 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:00,320 Speaker 1: And whoever this is is somebody that I don't they 151 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 1: went there targeting these three girls. They were just I 152 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 1: think it's probably a looking for an opportunity and they 153 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 1: found one. So that, yeah, that is the danger of 154 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 1: malls and just hanging out of them. What we know 155 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 1: is that Rachel's younger brother, or Rusty, said the girls 156 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:18,559 Speaker 1: were expected home around four pm, because there was going 157 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 1: to be a party. But four pm came and went. 158 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 1: The girls never showed up. Remember we're just talking about 159 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 1: a nine year old, a fourteen year old, a seventeen 160 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 1: year old girl. When they didn't arrive, everyone started to 161 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: get worried. Then the son began to set the parents 162 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: started getting home from work, and the girls still were 163 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 1: not there. Richard Wilson with me. Renee's father gathered together himself, 164 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 1: members of the neighborhood and they drove that ten minute 165 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 1: trip to the mall to search for the girls. Richard Wilson, 166 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 1: tell me about what happened when you got home from 167 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 1: work that afternoon. Well, when I got home from work, 168 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:03,840 Speaker 1: I was already home, and she said Renee them hadn't 169 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:05,439 Speaker 1: made it home, and she wanted to go down to 170 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 1: the mill and look. Me and Beauty went down to 171 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 1: the mall and drove. She went through the stores and 172 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 1: I drove all over that parking lot and we found nothing, 173 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: and she called the police. They wouldn't come out after 174 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: you know, eleven o'clock when the moell closed. Why that's 175 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 1: the only thea that they can tell you. Oh my stars, 176 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 1: because the girls, I mean, I know they made it 177 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: to them all. I don't know yet whether they made 178 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 1: it inside them all For all, I know they've been 179 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:44,080 Speaker 1: missing since they first got there, if they were abducted 180 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 1: in the parking lot before they ever went in. But 181 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:50,079 Speaker 1: do we know one way or the other, Richard, if 182 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 1: they made it in the mall where they spotted in 183 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 1: the mall. Yeah, they were supposedly spotted in a Murphy's 184 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 1: store and shoe store, and it's supposedly somebody so we 185 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:11,120 Speaker 1: here was following them, a tall, skinny guy but a 186 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:14,320 Speaker 1: jacket on it, head California on it. So we know 187 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 1: that really helps with the timeline, Cheryl, because we know 188 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:20,840 Speaker 1: they got in them all and they probably wandered around. 189 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:22,720 Speaker 1: And I mean that in a good way. You know, 190 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 1: when you don't have any real agenda, you just go in. 191 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 1: I can't even remember the last time I did not 192 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:32,320 Speaker 1: have a schedule or an agenda, But teens do that. 193 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 1: They go in and one of them is nine and 194 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 1: all they have to do is get home in time 195 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:38,560 Speaker 1: to go to a little party, so they're just kind 196 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:40,560 Speaker 1: of wandering around. I can just see him going to 197 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 1: the food court too, does Shu store, looking at all 198 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 1: the windows, going by Spencers. Do you remember that poster? Police? 199 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 1: I think it actually still exists, but I could see that, Nancy. 200 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 1: I know mister Wilson, Renee's dad was talking about what 201 00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 1: was going on that day. Well. The Trace Evidence podcast, 202 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 1: The Apparances of the fort Worth Three Steve Pacheco specifically 203 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 1: talks about whether or not the girls were seeing in 204 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:07,959 Speaker 1: the mall. Take a listen to this. Several witnesses reported 205 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:10,720 Speaker 1: seeing the girls at the mall. When a girl failed 206 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 1: to return home by four pm, their families became concerned 207 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:17,560 Speaker 1: and by six pm Rachel's younger brother, Rusty was on 208 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:20,840 Speaker 1: the scene with his mother. They found the car locked 209 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 1: up with Christmas presents inside. They went to every store 210 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:26,959 Speaker 1: in the mall, having the girls paged, but there was 211 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:30,959 Speaker 1: no response. Police were called and when they arrived they 212 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:34,559 Speaker 1: did a sweep of the mall. Several witnesses gave conflicting 213 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 1: accounts of seeing the girls in the parking lot in 214 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 1: the company of a man. Now we know they made 215 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 1: it in safely, so whatever happened originated either in the 216 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 1: mall or on their way out of them all. That 217 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 1: makes a big difference in the timeline, Cheryl. It makes 218 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 1: a huge difference fancy. But there was a young man 219 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 1: that came forward in nineteen seventy file that said he 220 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 1: ran into them at a wrect the store and did 221 00:13:56,880 --> 00:13:59,599 Speaker 1: see a man that he thought was following them a 222 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 1: lean around them. But we also know there were Christmas 223 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:07,079 Speaker 1: presents in her vehicle that was locked, so we can 224 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 1: put them there, no question about it. Back to Richard Wilson, 225 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 1: this is Renee's dad. Renee just fourteen years old when 226 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:16,320 Speaker 1: she goes missing. So you get to them all. You 227 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 1: can't find anything in the parking lot, but you see 228 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 1: the vehicle. Correct. No, Renee's kind of an uncle came 229 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 1: down there with us and he went out and found 230 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 1: that car because he was there at Renee's grandmother's that day, 231 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 1: and I think he spoke to him and he found 232 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: that car. And I'm understanding that Christmas gifts, this happens 233 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 1: at Christmas time. We're in the car and the car 234 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: was locked. Richard, Yes, it was locked. The Christmas gift 235 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 1: that was in there was supposedly so everybody says was 236 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 1: a gift that Renee had got for Sean, which is 237 00:14:56,280 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: Tommy's a little boy. I'm curious did they back it 238 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 1: up with a receipt that would have been timed, so 239 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 1: they knew at what time the girls he bought it 240 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 1: from home from home? Oh see, that changes things, Cheryl? 241 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:14,600 Speaker 1: Did you get that that changed everything? I see, I 242 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 1: didn't know that. I knew there was a gift in 243 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 1: the car, But the fact that she didn't buy it 244 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 1: in the mall that hurts the case that it hurts 245 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 1: the timeline I'm building in my head, because if you 246 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 1: buy something in the mall, it'll have the time of 247 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 1: the date on the receipt. They can look that up. 248 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 1: But if she brought that from home to give away, 249 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 1: that doesn't help me with my timeline. But we do 250 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 1: know the car was locked. Okay, what does that tell me? 251 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 1: It tells me most likely they were not abducted from 252 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 1: the car, because if they were taken on the way 253 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 1: to the car and they had unlocked at the kidnapper 254 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: who have not had neatly you know, locked the car 255 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 1: back back to Richard Wilson. So you get there that night, 256 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 1: you can't find hiding her hair of them. What happens next, Richard? Well, 257 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 1: I drove down to a guy that wanted to date Renee, 258 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 1: and I told him Nope, never happened, and I guess 259 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 1: he decided it was easier to leave her alone than 260 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 1: to mess with me. And I think he was in 261 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 1: the next day, the detective come out to the house 262 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:18,920 Speaker 1: that he had a phone call that those girls were 263 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 1: sold in a well. And do you remember that night, Richard, 264 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 1: you come back from them all and tell your wife 265 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 1: or him you and your wife are talking about no clues. 266 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 1: What was that first night like when you could not 267 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:36,400 Speaker 1: find your daughter? Okay, about one o'clock I carried my 268 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 1: wife home, picked up the Arnold's next door neighbor, which 269 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 1: was a friend of mine, closer than my own brother. 270 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 1: He went down here with me and we sat down 271 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 1: there in front of Sears garage and watch that car 272 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 1: all night. No security guards went by. Nobody came back 273 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 1: to that car. Joining me right now. Kim Cadell, a neighbor, 274 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 1: a family friend who feels so strongly about this case. 275 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:14,439 Speaker 1: She contacted crime Online dot Com and me on Facebook. Kim, 276 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 1: tell me what you know about the case. I want 277 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:20,439 Speaker 1: as much information out there as possible for those of 278 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:23,879 Speaker 1: you listening. We're talking about the so called fort Worth trio. 279 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 1: Is just three little girls. Julianne Moseley aged nine, Renee 280 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 1: Wilson fourteen, Rachel Trelisa just seventeen, Tipline eight one seven 281 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 1: four six nine eight four seven seven repeat eight one 282 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:45,399 Speaker 1: seven four six nine eight four seven seven Kim Cadell 283 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 1: jump in. You know, that's the sad thing about the cases. 284 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: There's just no real facts out there to know. For me, 285 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 1: the biggest clue has always been that the letter. You 286 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 1: don't seeing the girls have gone to Houston. Other than 287 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 1: that letter, it seems like they just vanished and they 288 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:07,119 Speaker 1: just haven't been a whole lot of clues left behind. 289 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace, my sister, and two of 290 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:27,879 Speaker 1: your friends went on a shopping trip to what was 291 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 1: then Seminary South Back on December twenty third, byteen seventy four, 292 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 1: and all three of the girls just vanished and we 293 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:37,400 Speaker 1: never saw me. This has been a case that has 294 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:42,439 Speaker 1: weighed on these three families all of these years. Listen, 295 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 1: I've spent my entire adult life looking for my sister, 296 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:47,680 Speaker 1: and I will never stop. Today we're gonna know we're 297 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:54,159 Speaker 1: getting the third car out, and we're gonna know we 298 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 1: could be within three inches of the car and miss 299 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:02,880 Speaker 1: it completely. It's supposed to be a quick, easy procedure. 300 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 1: But there's nothing quick and easy when you're doing a dive. 301 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:11,520 Speaker 1: Let imagine laying in a coffin and closing the door. 302 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 1: The first six inches you see a green blur, but 303 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 1: past that it's pitch black. All you can hear is 304 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:23,639 Speaker 1: your bubbles. Nobody understands just how dangerous this dive is. 305 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 1: It's a black water dive. You can't see your hand 306 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:31,440 Speaker 1: in front of your face. You were just hearing from 307 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 1: our friends at the fort Worth Star Telegram. Divers renewing 308 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:40,680 Speaker 1: the search for the three girls, dive into the black 309 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 1: water of a deep lake, searching for any evidence that 310 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 1: could relate back to the so called fort Worth Trio. 311 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:54,440 Speaker 1: This one man search the brother of a missing girl 312 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:58,199 Speaker 1: for his missing sister, takes him all the way to 313 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:01,399 Speaker 1: the bottom of a lake. And let me tell you, 314 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 1: before I had the twins, Sandy Harcom, this is Julie's aunt. 315 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:09,199 Speaker 1: I dived all over the world. Every time I got 316 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 1: a day off of work, I would go somewhere and 317 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 1: dive all the way down, over one hundred feet below 318 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 1: sea level. And one thing I always hated was a 319 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 1: lake dive or a night dive, because you can't see 320 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:32,120 Speaker 1: and it's very, very difficult to do. What we know 321 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 1: is that the hope is that somehow, some way we're 322 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 1: going to find evidence linking back to these three little girls. 323 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:48,880 Speaker 1: Sandy Harcomb, Julie's aunt at the time Julie goes missing. 324 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:52,880 Speaker 1: What were your first thoughts. I really couldn't tell you. 325 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:55,919 Speaker 1: I didn't know until the next day, about ten o'clock 326 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:59,439 Speaker 1: in the morning that they were gone. My mom called 327 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:03,399 Speaker 1: me and told me, and I said, well, you know, 328 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 1: what do you mean they're gone? And she said, they 329 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 1: never came back from shopping. And it's just so wrap 330 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 1: your head around that, you know. I couldn't. I couldn't imagine. 331 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 1: And she said, just whatever you do, though, don't call 332 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 1: the house because you know, runing was to keep the 333 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:21,399 Speaker 1: line open in case they do the hawk and something 334 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:24,560 Speaker 1: to think about too. That day it was a very 335 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: warm December day. They didn't have coats, you know. And 336 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:33,120 Speaker 1: that mall also, it's not the mall that you think 337 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:38,120 Speaker 1: about all today. That mall didn't have a closure on it. 338 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,639 Speaker 1: The stores were all linked together, but in the center 339 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:45,199 Speaker 1: it was open. There wasn't a top on it or anything. 340 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:49,960 Speaker 1: But as far as as I just couldn't imagine what 341 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 1: had happened, you know. It just things like that. This 342 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:57,400 Speaker 1: didn't happen to our families. We were talking about three 343 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 1: little girls that go missing on a trip to the mall, 344 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:06,320 Speaker 1: back to Richard Wilson, Renee's father. So I'm imagining you 345 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 1: over there by the Sears garage where they do the 346 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 1: tires and all that, and you're keeping your eyes trained 347 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:16,640 Speaker 1: on the vehicle that the girls were in when they 348 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 1: came to them. All what happened after that? I want 349 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 1: to hear about the letter that was received. The letter 350 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:31,040 Speaker 1: that was received. I understand that Debbie carried it over 351 00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 1: to her mother's house and they called the police. The 352 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:39,440 Speaker 1: police came out, well where's the envelope. They had to 353 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 1: go back to the house and find an envelope. And 354 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:51,480 Speaker 1: the envelope was supposedly mail from Truck Martin and received 355 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 1: the same day, and they supposedly got it about ten 356 00:22:55,760 --> 00:23:01,440 Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning. I think that there was hands 357 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 1: stamped at the little post office in Seminary itself, and 358 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 1: it was held onto because they don't the elope don't 359 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:19,440 Speaker 1: fit the letter. It's not voted ride you try to 360 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 1: put it in there. The paper's not the right size 361 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 1: to go in the Let's call in forensic expert and 362 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 1: the founder of the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute, Cheryl McCollum. Cheryl, 363 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 1: let's talk for a moment about the letter and the 364 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:39,320 Speaker 1: significance of the letter. Apparently there was no city name 365 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:43,679 Speaker 1: on the postmark, only a blurred postal service number. And 366 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: it also appears that the three written on their seven 367 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 1: six eight three was backward or was it an unfinished eight. 368 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:59,720 Speaker 1: But whatever the content of the letters, it's significant. What 369 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 1: do we know, Cheryl McCollum, Well, he's right. When you 370 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 1: look at how the letter itself is folded, it would 371 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 1: not have fit in that envelope. That's one thing. The 372 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:12,440 Speaker 1: other thing, the envelope itself, to me is a money treat. 373 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,400 Speaker 1: You can take the stamp off of that and try 374 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 1: to get DNA off the back of it. You can 375 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 1: try to get DNA off where somebody would have in 376 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,159 Speaker 1: the seventies had to have licked it to feel it. 377 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:27,880 Speaker 1: You could also get a partial palm print where they 378 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:31,120 Speaker 1: put their hand down and was writing on the taper itself, 379 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: also fingerprints where they held it and attempted to mail 380 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 1: it or run it through the stamp machine. I think 381 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 1: that's where they need to go. The letter itself is 382 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,880 Speaker 1: also curious. The person starts by saying, I know I'm 383 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 1: gonna catch it, but we had to get away. They 384 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 1: start with I and then immediately go to weed. But 385 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:53,199 Speaker 1: it's like the other two people aren't going to be 386 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 1: in trouble for running away. And what's so crazy is 387 00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 1: they're going to run away, but you're not going to 388 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:00,480 Speaker 1: take your car, you're not going to have the money, 389 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:03,639 Speaker 1: you don't have anywhere to sleep or get food or 390 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,200 Speaker 1: anything like that. It makes no sense. The other thing 391 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,680 Speaker 1: that doesn't make any sense is the way the envelope 392 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 1: is address. It's addressed very formal, so it would appear like, 393 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:16,879 Speaker 1: I know, you know Rachel recently was married, but it 394 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:20,240 Speaker 1: looked like whoever addresses to her husband did so formally 395 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:24,360 Speaker 1: and used Thomas a Hern address as simply Rachel. When 396 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 1: the three girls did not return for earth, police was 397 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:31,440 Speaker 1: called in. It was handed over to the Youth Division 398 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:35,880 Speaker 1: of the Missing Person's Bureau. Sadly, the girls were presumed 399 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:42,600 Speaker 1: to be runaways, which totally stalled the investigation. The next day. 400 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 1: The very next day, a letter was received in the 401 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 1: mailbox at the at Rachel's home that appeared to be 402 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 1: written by Rachel. See that that's the big part of this. 403 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 1: That is extremely significant time stories with Nancy Grace. The 404 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 1: next day, Thomas Trelisa received a strange letter in the 405 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,919 Speaker 1: mail alleged to have been written by Rachel, explaining that 406 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,440 Speaker 1: they had gone to Houston and would return in a week. 407 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 1: The letter sparked controversy, with no one believing Rachel had 408 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:38,359 Speaker 1: actually written it, and even accusations that had in fact 409 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:42,640 Speaker 1: been written by Rachel's sister Deborah. As the years passed, 410 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 1: Thomas would move away and sever all ties to the family, 411 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,240 Speaker 1: Deborah would become a person of interest, at least in 412 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,640 Speaker 1: the minds of the family and especially in the mind 413 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 1: of her brother Rusty. Dave, Matt, what's it all about, Nancy. 414 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 1: There's a very interesting relationship dynamic. Okay. We were listening 415 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 1: to the Tracy Evidence podcast, The Disappearance of the fort 416 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:06,919 Speaker 1: were three, hosted by Steve Pacheco. Tommy was married to Rachel, 417 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,680 Speaker 1: but prior to marrying Rachel, Tommy was romantically involved with 418 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:14,160 Speaker 1: Rachel's sister Deborah. They were involved enough that at one 419 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:19,159 Speaker 1: point in time Tommy and Deborah were engaged, they broke up. 420 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 1: Tommy then Mary's Deborah's sister Rachel. At the time of 421 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:27,199 Speaker 1: the disappearance, Deborah had moved in with and was living 422 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 1: with Tommy and Rachel. And it was the morning after 423 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:34,640 Speaker 1: the disappearance that the mysterious letter shows up and Deborah 424 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:38,600 Speaker 1: and Tommy find that letter. A letter was received in 425 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:44,240 Speaker 1: the mailbox at Rachel's home that appeared to be written 426 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:49,040 Speaker 1: by Rachel. See that that's the big part of this 427 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 1: that is extremely significant. Whether it was or it wasn't. 428 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 1: It appeared to be written by Rachel, but yet the 429 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,920 Speaker 1: addressing on the front, as Cheryl pointed out, was to 430 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:06,720 Speaker 1: It was very formal, like if someone wrote me that 431 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:10,119 Speaker 1: knows me, and they put to the Honorable Nancy A 432 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:14,960 Speaker 1: Grace Esquire who knows me, that would write that. That's 433 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:16,720 Speaker 1: what you formally put on the end of a letter 434 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:20,159 Speaker 1: to a lawyer. So it seems as if this was 435 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:25,719 Speaker 1: not written by Rachel, but it was purportedly written by Rachel. 436 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 1: The letter was written in ink, but the addressed envelope 437 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 1: was written in pencil. The letter was written on a 438 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:38,959 Speaker 1: sheet of paper that was wider than the envelope. That's 439 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 1: what everybody's trying to say about how it wouldn't have 440 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,920 Speaker 1: fit into the envelope, but if you folded it over 441 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 1: you can make it fit in there. It was addressed 442 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:54,960 Speaker 1: formally as I said, also what we know Rachel. The 443 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 1: word Rachel was written in the upper left hand corner 444 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:03,600 Speaker 1: of the envelope. It appeared to be initially misspelled, as 445 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 1: the L in her name was written like a lowercase E, 446 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 1: but it had been gone over again to form a 447 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 1: correct L. The postmark did not contain a city, only 448 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 1: a blurred ZIP code that appeared to be seven six 449 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 1: eight three, but the three looks backward like it was 450 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:29,280 Speaker 1: applied by a hand loaded stamp. That is what Richard 451 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 1: Wilson was trying to explain. We assume that zip code 452 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 1: was meant to be either seven six o three eight, 453 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 1: which comes from Eliasaville near throck Morton, Texas, or seven 454 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 1: six eight eight, which comes from Weatherford, Texas. Back at 455 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 1: the time of the letter, handwriting experts across the nation 456 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 1: looked at the letter, including the FBI, but every time 457 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 1: the results seemed to come back in conclusive. Now back 458 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:09,720 Speaker 1: to Richard Wilson, Renee's father. What did the letter say, well, 459 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 1: I'd like to say one more thing about that postmark. Okay, 460 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:18,120 Speaker 1: I can come up with five more letters with exactly 461 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 1: the same postmark. Who are they? They're in a friend 462 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:29,480 Speaker 1: of mine house. It was like, I think, invitations about 463 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:35,840 Speaker 1: one of her kids and other things. Hmm. I have 464 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:39,960 Speaker 1: a copy of all of those letters. I'm trying to 465 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 1: figure out what exactly the contents of the letter said. Okay, 466 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,600 Speaker 1: the letter just says going to Houston, be back in 467 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 1: about a week. I know I'm going to catch it. 468 00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:00,240 Speaker 1: And then it just says, Rachel, it's not much there. Well, 469 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 1: that doesn't even make sense. I know I'm going to 470 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:06,120 Speaker 1: catch it, but we had to get away. We're going 471 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 1: to Houston see you in about a week. The car 472 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:14,120 Speaker 1: is in Sears upper lot, Love Rachel. The person who 473 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:17,040 Speaker 1: put that car in that lot had to know that. 474 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:21,520 Speaker 1: The letter who wrote exactly that had to be the 475 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 1: person that was there, because they knew where the car 476 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 1: was parked. Cheryl McCollum, Director of Cold Case Research Institute 477 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,240 Speaker 1: for instic Expert. We're learning a lot. We know Rachel 478 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:37,640 Speaker 1: did not write the letter number one. We know that 479 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:41,480 Speaker 1: it may not have truly been addressed. I'm not convinced 480 00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:46,000 Speaker 1: it even went through the mail. Was it marked Cheryl 481 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 1: as if it had actually gone through the mail? Or 482 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 1: could it have been hand delivered? Okay? Straight up, if 483 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:56,760 Speaker 1: you are at a business that has one of the 484 00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 1: machines where you can just handload a bunch of letters, 485 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,520 Speaker 1: Let's say you take fifty of them and you just 486 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:06,280 Speaker 1: run these through and take them home and put your 487 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:10,200 Speaker 1: Christmas card in it and then mail it. That could 488 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 1: have happened. And what I want to be real clear 489 00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:17,720 Speaker 1: about did it actually go through the mail? That's my question. 490 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 1: You don't know that somebody could have taken envelope home, 491 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 1: is what I'm saying. And if they appeared, did they 492 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:25,680 Speaker 1: have gone through the mail? That's what I'm saying. We 493 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,800 Speaker 1: don't know, Richard. Did the envelope look like it went 494 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 1: through the mail or could it have been stamped and 495 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,480 Speaker 1: hand delivered? Yeah, it looked like it went through the 496 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:42,000 Speaker 1: mail because four or five letters got it. Got it? Okay? 497 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:46,479 Speaker 1: That's that is significant because that letter came within like 498 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,880 Speaker 1: seventy two hours of the girls missing or less. That 499 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:54,120 Speaker 1: means the letter was sent almost immediately after the girls 500 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:58,000 Speaker 1: go missing. Cheryl. So this person, Nancy, you got to 501 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:02,440 Speaker 1: hear me out. Okay, go I'm today. In today's time, 502 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:04,360 Speaker 1: it's going to take three days for that letter to 503 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 1: get there. In the seventies, it could have taken a week. 504 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:09,960 Speaker 1: There is no way if you kidnap somebody at four 505 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 1: o'clock and mail a letter that their family is going 506 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,080 Speaker 1: to get it the next morning in the mail, especially 507 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,680 Speaker 1: a December twenty third with all these added Christmas cards 508 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,280 Speaker 1: in that sort of thing. I called bogus on that 509 00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:25,320 Speaker 1: hand stamp. That's what I'm saying, guys. But this is 510 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:30,520 Speaker 1: it's significant whether this went through the mail or whether 511 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:35,280 Speaker 1: somebody made it appear it went through the mail and 512 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,080 Speaker 1: delivered what I'm saying they made it. Now we also 513 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:42,120 Speaker 1: know the ten cent stamp had been canceled that morning 514 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:45,080 Speaker 1: December twenty four. What does that mean It was canceled, 515 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:48,280 Speaker 1: That mean it was stamped by a mail but it 516 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:51,560 Speaker 1: could have been a handstamp. The significance of that, let 517 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:54,280 Speaker 1: me circle back to you, Richard, is that if it 518 00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:58,280 Speaker 1: was hand delivered, that means this is somebody that knows 519 00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:03,200 Speaker 1: you guys, that go back to the home to leave 520 00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:06,720 Speaker 1: that letter and I pick it up on something. Cheryl said, 521 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:10,360 Speaker 1: this went out immediately did it? Could it really have 522 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,960 Speaker 1: gone through the mail and arrived say they go missing? 523 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:19,480 Speaker 1: How many days passed before the letter came in Richard? 524 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:25,000 Speaker 1: The next day? No? No, no, do you see the 525 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:27,959 Speaker 1: problem with that, Cloyd Steiger. I'm focusing on the letter 526 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 1: because it don't have anything else to focus on. And plus, 527 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:35,560 Speaker 1: this is written by the perpetrator. These girls didn't write 528 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 1: this letter. Yeah, there's no question about that. And you're 529 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:41,080 Speaker 1: exactly right, Cheryl is exactly right. You're not going to 530 00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:44,719 Speaker 1: get it the next day, especially right before Christmas in 531 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:47,840 Speaker 1: a town like that. It doesn't because it doesn't do 532 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:50,480 Speaker 1: that today. So somethingly didn't do it in nineteen seventy four. 533 00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:56,560 Speaker 1: Let's follow what our theory is to the logical conclusion. 534 00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:03,399 Speaker 1: The logical conclusion is at somehow the perpetrator could get 535 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,000 Speaker 1: away from the girls, because you know, they were not 536 00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,200 Speaker 1: in the car when that letter was delivered, all the 537 00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:13,080 Speaker 1: way back to their home. He had them somewhere, or 538 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:18,120 Speaker 1: they were already killed, but he circles back to the home. 539 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:24,040 Speaker 1: This is not random. Why if you randomly kidnap somebody 540 00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:26,359 Speaker 1: and let's just say, you rape them and you kill them, 541 00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:28,279 Speaker 1: or you just kill them or you rob them and 542 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:32,480 Speaker 1: you kidnap them. You want to get away, get rid 543 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:35,279 Speaker 1: of the evidence as fast as you can. You're not 544 00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:38,640 Speaker 1: going back to the house to leave some bogus letter. 545 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:43,080 Speaker 1: This is not random. Do you hear me, Cheryl? I 546 00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 1: hear you see and I agree with you. This person 547 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:49,400 Speaker 1: not only to the time to know where the victim's 548 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:52,880 Speaker 1: cart is at. That means they watched them part. They 549 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:56,759 Speaker 1: knew where the car was, they knew her address, they 550 00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:00,400 Speaker 1: knew her husband's formal name. And you with me is 551 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:04,640 Speaker 1: Julie's aunt, Sandy Harkum. Sandy, what do you make of it? 552 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,959 Speaker 1: I think the letter was supposed to throw everybody off, 553 00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:11,279 Speaker 1: and it makes no sense, like you said, because a 554 00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:13,920 Speaker 1: complete stranger that's going to have dot three girls, it's 555 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:15,759 Speaker 1: not going to take the time to set and write 556 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,319 Speaker 1: a letter and send it to the family. I mean, 557 00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:21,520 Speaker 1: they're gonna get them and go. So that letter was 558 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,320 Speaker 1: kind of a smoking one out a smoking gun, but 559 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,440 Speaker 1: a smoke screen, And it worked for a while because 560 00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:31,440 Speaker 1: that's what the detective used every time you ask them 561 00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:33,360 Speaker 1: what's going on with the case while they ran away. 562 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:52,000 Speaker 1: Here's the letter. Time Stories with Nancy Grace. The next 563 00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:54,359 Speaker 1: day The only major lead in the case developed when 564 00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:56,640 Speaker 1: a handwritten note was received stating the three had gone 565 00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:58,880 Speaker 1: to Houston. Police weren't sure if the note had been 566 00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:01,120 Speaker 1: written free lead. It has since been sent to the 567 00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:04,040 Speaker 1: FBI lab in Washington for analysis. You were just hearing 568 00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:09,480 Speaker 1: our friends at WFAATV. You know, another really important part 569 00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:16,520 Speaker 1: about this letter is that when Tommy he came to 570 00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:18,840 Speaker 1: his place. When Tommy picked up the letter out of 571 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:24,480 Speaker 1: the mailbox, nothing else was in the mailbox. No Christmas cards, 572 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:31,600 Speaker 1: no bills, no flyers, nothing, which if they had been 573 00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:35,240 Speaker 1: thinking straight, they would have printed. They would have dusted 574 00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:41,520 Speaker 1: that mailbox for prints and the letter and the DNA. 575 00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:45,239 Speaker 1: Do we know, I'm just, you know, throwing this out there. 576 00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:50,080 Speaker 1: Do we know? Richard Wilson. Richard is Renee Wilson's dad. 577 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:54,200 Speaker 1: His girl was fourteen years old. When he gets home 578 00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:57,680 Speaker 1: from work and finds out Renee never came home from them, 579 00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:04,799 Speaker 1: all his life been torn apart since this happened. You know, 580 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:06,640 Speaker 1: when I cover a case like this, I just have 581 00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:08,160 Speaker 1: to go get in my car and go straight over 582 00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:11,000 Speaker 1: to the school. And sometimes I've even looked in the 583 00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:15,000 Speaker 1: window at the children. They go, there's mom again. Parking lot. 584 00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:19,680 Speaker 1: I can't help it when I think of what Richard 585 00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:24,000 Speaker 1: Wilson and the other parents of these girls have been through. 586 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:32,360 Speaker 1: Fourteen years old, nine years old, seventeen years old. Richard, 587 00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:36,400 Speaker 1: it really strikes me that there was nothing else in 588 00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:40,919 Speaker 1: that mailbox. That's because the mail hadn't even come yet. 589 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:44,120 Speaker 1: And the mail don't run that early over here. Because 590 00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:51,080 Speaker 1: I live approximately four blocks from Tommy's house, I get 591 00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:54,920 Speaker 1: my mail anywhere from five to seven o'clock at night. 592 00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:58,520 Speaker 1: Me too, I see them out five, six, seven o'clock 593 00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:02,279 Speaker 1: at night delivering them out. You know, I'm not knocking them, 594 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:04,600 Speaker 1: but I can tell you this. I also do not 595 00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:07,920 Speaker 1: get mail at ten o'clock in the morning. Okay, Cheryl, 596 00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:09,920 Speaker 1: we can go on and on and on about this, 597 00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:15,080 Speaker 1: but what does it mean. It means did you ever 598 00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:18,440 Speaker 1: put the letter in the mailbox? It's in fact, it 599 00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:21,440 Speaker 1: was ever in the mailbox, and it wasn't placed there 600 00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:25,200 Speaker 1: by somebody that was in that home. Because here, you 601 00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:29,080 Speaker 1: got to look at Tommy. If this was a real investigation, 602 00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:31,680 Speaker 1: you have to look at him first. Well, I've already 603 00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:33,879 Speaker 1: looked at him, but you know what, that's a very 604 00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:36,200 Speaker 1: good point. Let's look at Tommy. Go ahead, where was 605 00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:38,720 Speaker 1: he that day? Cheryl? You got you gotta look at Tommy. 606 00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:44,920 Speaker 1: You know why you of all three families, three different addresses, 607 00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:47,120 Speaker 1: three different girls, why did the letter come to you? 608 00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:52,080 Speaker 1: That's significant. Then you look at why the letter does 609 00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:54,800 Speaker 1: not fit the envelope. It doesn't appear that it was 610 00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:57,640 Speaker 1: folded and put into that exact envelope when it was 611 00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:00,000 Speaker 1: taken over to the other house. The envelope wasn't even 612 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,799 Speaker 1: brought with it. Why not? You would take everything. So 613 00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,040 Speaker 1: I'm telling you the money tree here is on the 614 00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:08,480 Speaker 1: back of that stamp and on the inside of the seal. 615 00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:11,960 Speaker 1: Somebody had to look back to see it if it 616 00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:16,960 Speaker 1: was ever sealed to Richard Wilson, Renee's dad. Do we know, Richard, 617 00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:20,280 Speaker 1: if a DNA analysis has been done on the stamp 618 00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:25,160 Speaker 1: or the seal? Oh yeah, but they say the DNA 619 00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:30,920 Speaker 1: did not match nobody that they found up was yet that. 620 00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:35,080 Speaker 1: I don't know. Now Sandy or Kim one may know that. Yeah, 621 00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:37,719 Speaker 1: let's find out. Kim Cadell. What do you know? We 622 00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:40,680 Speaker 1: just had a meeting with the chief of police and 623 00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:45,160 Speaker 1: in the abjective and they say that there's just not 624 00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:49,080 Speaker 1: enough DNA on the back of the stamp to do 625 00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:52,400 Speaker 1: anything else with it. Is that correct, Sandy? Well, they 626 00:40:52,520 --> 00:41:00,680 Speaker 1: did said, as Richard said, they have ruled out everyone 627 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:07,000 Speaker 1: in Deborah and they've they've run the DNA. What they're 628 00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:09,160 Speaker 1: saying now is because I would like for this to 629 00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:12,640 Speaker 1: go to the Paragon Lab in Virginia where they can 630 00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:17,439 Speaker 1: actually do a composite of the persons you know from 631 00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:20,279 Speaker 1: the DNA, they said, there's just not enough left on 632 00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:23,319 Speaker 1: there anymore to do that. But they have, they have 633 00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:27,240 Speaker 1: tested the DNA and supposedly ruled out a number of people. 634 00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:31,720 Speaker 1: I find the interesting, Cloyd Steiger that she's saying, Sandy 635 00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:34,880 Speaker 1: Harcom is saying, and I have no reason to believe 636 00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,319 Speaker 1: she is not correct, because she's just come out of 637 00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:41,120 Speaker 1: this meeting with authorities that the DNA doesn't match any 638 00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:46,120 Speaker 1: of the family or the people they they secure DNA from. 639 00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:49,320 Speaker 1: But back to Cheryl's question, it needs to go into 640 00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:53,719 Speaker 1: kotas the national DNA data bank, and it needs to 641 00:41:53,760 --> 00:42:00,719 Speaker 1: be put in ancestry. What is it ancestry dot com 642 00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:05,520 Speaker 1: twenty three and me there is the data bank used 643 00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:08,920 Speaker 1: by the Golden State Killer Detectives, which was a public 644 00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:12,960 Speaker 1: data bank. What about that? Chloyd. What do we what 645 00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:14,840 Speaker 1: do we have to do to make that happen? Well, 646 00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:16,840 Speaker 1: it does have to be a complete profile. But my 647 00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:19,160 Speaker 1: question would be how long ago did they do the DNA, 648 00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:21,759 Speaker 1: because I mean, it advanced so much in the last 649 00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:24,960 Speaker 1: couple of years that smaller amounts you can get more 650 00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:28,080 Speaker 1: with and so that would be my first question. And 651 00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:30,600 Speaker 1: if they have a partial they could. They can't eliminate 652 00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:34,719 Speaker 1: people by direct comparison, but you have to have the 653 00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:37,960 Speaker 1: full profile. But I wonder how long ago they did this? 654 00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:41,720 Speaker 1: They mean he did try to do it again? Guys. 655 00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:48,320 Speaker 1: I have investigated and prosecuted literally thousands of felony cases. 656 00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:53,560 Speaker 1: I have covered literally thousands of cases of missing people, 657 00:42:53,960 --> 00:43:01,040 Speaker 1: adults and children, unsolved homicides, violent crimes. After all the cases, 658 00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:04,960 Speaker 1: after speaking to all the victims, all the police, all 659 00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:09,919 Speaker 1: the witnesses over years, my question is what can we 660 00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:14,120 Speaker 1: do about it. I don't want to just sit back 661 00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:17,080 Speaker 1: and report on it. I want to take action. And 662 00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:19,640 Speaker 1: I know you must feel the same way. You don't 663 00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:21,719 Speaker 1: want to just hear about crime. You want to do 664 00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:25,399 Speaker 1: something about it and do something to stop it. And 665 00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:29,280 Speaker 1: here is the news. We have all worked so hard 666 00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:33,840 Speaker 1: to bring to you Don't Be a Victim, Fighting back 667 00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:39,680 Speaker 1: against America's crime Wave, a brand new book. After interviewing 668 00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:44,879 Speaker 1: literally hundreds of crime victims and police, we put our 669 00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:50,200 Speaker 1: knowledge into Don't Be a Victim. You could pre order 670 00:43:50,280 --> 00:44:08,279 Speaker 1: now go to Crime online dot com. Time Stories with 671 00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:11,920 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. The next day, the only major lead in 672 00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:14,760 Speaker 1: the case developed when a handwritten note was received stating 673 00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:17,200 Speaker 1: the three had gone to Houston. Police weren't sure if 674 00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:19,640 Speaker 1: the note had been written freely. It has since been 675 00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:23,600 Speaker 1: sent to the FBI lab in Washington for analysis. It's 676 00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:25,840 Speaker 1: just hard for me to believe the only thing we 677 00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:30,840 Speaker 1: have to go on is that letter back to Richard 678 00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:34,240 Speaker 1: will Serene's father, and you believe you know who wrote 679 00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:42,560 Speaker 1: the letter, Hugh, tell me, well, the handwriting on that letter. 680 00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:50,440 Speaker 1: We have all kinds of symptoms did match out of 681 00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:56,120 Speaker 1: the writing. We've got divorced papers, marriage license d the houses, 682 00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:05,520 Speaker 1: letters to a judge eskin for some of the inheritance 683 00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:13,359 Speaker 1: you know, comes back to the same one. Do y'all 684 00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:15,640 Speaker 1: have just the second? I mean, I would like to 685 00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:19,959 Speaker 1: say this one thing real quick. So when I sent 686 00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:24,440 Speaker 1: that information, all the handwriting samples that mister Wilson is 687 00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:28,920 Speaker 1: talking about which was known to be written by Tommy, 688 00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:32,400 Speaker 1: like they were legal documents, and a girl came forward 689 00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:35,719 Speaker 1: and gave us like a two page letter. And when 690 00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:40,600 Speaker 1: that came back from Wendy Carlson that Thomas Telisa authored 691 00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:48,000 Speaker 1: those documents, the cold case detective told mister Wilson, I've 692 00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:50,360 Speaker 1: got good news and bad news. The good news is 693 00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:52,839 Speaker 1: it came back from DPS because they had had their 694 00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:58,239 Speaker 1: They told mister Wilson that Tommy wrote the envelope, that 695 00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:03,040 Speaker 1: DPS did not agree that he wrote the letter. And 696 00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:06,160 Speaker 1: then the detective wanted me to call her and give 697 00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:08,680 Speaker 1: her a POTE number. I called her. We had a 698 00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:13,560 Speaker 1: forty five minute discussion, same thing. Tommy wrote the envelope. 699 00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:17,680 Speaker 1: It was confirmed by DPS. And then when Sandra and 700 00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:21,480 Speaker 1: I had our meeting, they clearly said, Nope, that's not 701 00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:27,399 Speaker 1: what it said. Y'amas understood and there is no they 702 00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:34,360 Speaker 1: that as lad Tommy wrote better are the envelope? Have 703 00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:37,520 Speaker 1: you ever confronted him? Oh? Yes, I told Tommy one time, 704 00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:43,000 Speaker 1: I know where you're at because the police called me 705 00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:46,920 Speaker 1: and told me that they had sent called Tommy so 706 00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:50,360 Speaker 1: many times, but he won't answer them and he won't 707 00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:54,799 Speaker 1: call him back. And when he came to Fort Worth, 708 00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:59,080 Speaker 1: he called me and I told him, I know where 709 00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:01,560 Speaker 1: you're at, Tommy, and I'm going to be out there 710 00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:05,160 Speaker 1: an amend it. Only two I only woman was gonna 711 00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:10,840 Speaker 1: walk away, and he ran down to the police department. 712 00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:15,200 Speaker 1: Police department called me back and told me, I know 713 00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:18,520 Speaker 1: Tommy did it, but I can't prove it. He has 714 00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:21,520 Speaker 1: no conscience. He can pass my detector tests as fast 715 00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:23,759 Speaker 1: as I can throw him at him. And he said, 716 00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:26,160 Speaker 1: if you ever get any trouble over that boy, call 717 00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:31,120 Speaker 1: me first. As of right now, Tommy or anyone else 718 00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:34,400 Speaker 1: has not been named a person of interest or a 719 00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:38,480 Speaker 1: suspect in this case. Let me go back to Richard Wilson. 720 00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:43,359 Speaker 1: This is Renee's dad. Richard. Do you believe that the 721 00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:49,400 Speaker 1: mall and the mall employees were canvased thoroughly? I really 722 00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:57,360 Speaker 1: doubt it because that detective that got this case, my opinion, 723 00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:03,200 Speaker 1: he was useless. Why why he came to my house 724 00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:05,719 Speaker 1: I think it was the next day and told me 725 00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:08,560 Speaker 1: those girls throw in the well. He was going to 726 00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:11,960 Speaker 1: check it, and I thought, well, I'm going to follow 727 00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:14,440 Speaker 1: this bird. And when he went out of my house, 728 00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:17,880 Speaker 1: he went up the street. My pickup was parked across 729 00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:21,800 Speaker 1: the street. I went down the street about two blocks 730 00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:25,000 Speaker 1: and cut back to the street and got behind him, 731 00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:28,759 Speaker 1: and I followed him to a coffee shop. And I 732 00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:33,440 Speaker 1: sat across the street at a barber shop, and he 733 00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:36,319 Speaker 1: stayed in there about thirty minutes. Come out, went down 734 00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:39,680 Speaker 1: at Hemphield went down the city Hall called me a 735 00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:44,160 Speaker 1: little later. There was nothing to it. Well, there wasn't 736 00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:46,680 Speaker 1: nothing to it because I know there's not no well 737 00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:51,480 Speaker 1: in that coffee shop. You know, mister Wilson, your remind 738 00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:54,839 Speaker 1: me so much as my dad. I always I could 739 00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:58,920 Speaker 1: just reached through this microphone and get to you. What 740 00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:02,279 Speaker 1: can you tell me, miss Wilson about a woman who 741 00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:07,080 Speaker 1: told a store clerk that she saw one or more 742 00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:11,800 Speaker 1: men getting girls to go into a pickup truck. We 743 00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:15,040 Speaker 1: could okate that woman, but that's what was told to 744 00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:20,120 Speaker 1: a clerk. What other clues emerged to Dave mac investigative 745 00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:23,080 Speaker 1: reporter Crime Online Nancy. There had been a number of 746 00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:27,360 Speaker 1: eyewitness accounts, but they seemed to conflict with one another. 747 00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:30,880 Speaker 1: Early on in the investigation, there was a former police 748 00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:34,480 Speaker 1: officer who was working security for Sears at the time, 749 00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:38,880 Speaker 1: and he actually his name is Bill Hutchins, I believe, 750 00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:43,960 Speaker 1: and he said that he at that night, at eleven thirty, 751 00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:47,520 Speaker 1: the night they went missing, that he actually saw a 752 00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:52,440 Speaker 1: security truck with a security guy dressed in uniform in 753 00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:55,160 Speaker 1: the front seat and three girls in the vehicle. He 754 00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:58,800 Speaker 1: even described the youngest one sitting right next to the driver, 755 00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:03,120 Speaker 1: and another little bit older girl in the middle of that, 756 00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:06,640 Speaker 1: and then on the far side, next to the passenger door, 757 00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:10,960 Speaker 1: an older girl. And he told police this at the time, 758 00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:16,319 Speaker 1: said that he actually questioned, what are you doing out here? 759 00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:18,960 Speaker 1: And he said that they kind of blew him off 760 00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:22,879 Speaker 1: and then went on about their way, and he told 761 00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:26,000 Speaker 1: police the next day. They never followed up. He told 762 00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:29,120 Speaker 1: the story a couple of different times and it never 763 00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:31,840 Speaker 1: let anywhere, And the last time was in two thousand 764 00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:35,160 Speaker 1: and one when they reopened the case and mister Hutchinson 765 00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:39,360 Speaker 1: again said, hey, this is what I saw that night. Again, 766 00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:41,879 Speaker 1: there were other stories that came out of this from 767 00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:45,440 Speaker 1: again I'm putting air quotes around eyewitnesses, because there were 768 00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:48,320 Speaker 1: other people who claimed that they saw the girls being 769 00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:53,920 Speaker 1: physically pushed into a van on the day they went missing. Yeah, 770 00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:57,279 Speaker 1: and there was another eyewitnesses saw a girl says he 771 00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:00,360 Speaker 1: saw a girl being forced into a van and he 772 00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:03,000 Speaker 1: asked the guy, hey, hey, hey, what are you doing? 773 00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:06,359 Speaker 1: And the guy says it's a family matter, but out 774 00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:13,319 Speaker 1: and he has repeatedly stated that the families extremely frustrated 775 00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:20,560 Speaker 1: with the investigation. Hire a private eye, John Swain. Swain 776 00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:23,759 Speaker 1: discovers a twenty six year old man making a string 777 00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:28,080 Speaker 1: of obscene phone calls in the area and had worked 778 00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:31,680 Speaker 1: for a store in fort Worth where Rachel had applied 779 00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:36,320 Speaker 1: for a job just before Christmas. Turns out he was 780 00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:39,520 Speaker 1: using his position to get information from young women who 781 00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:44,240 Speaker 1: had applied for a job, and on all their applications 782 00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:49,000 Speaker 1: they would have their home addresses. Six women who applied 783 00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:51,480 Speaker 1: at the store had been getting those obscene phone calls. 784 00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:56,480 Speaker 1: He also once lived in the neighborhood of Rachel's parents. 785 00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:02,480 Speaker 1: In the end that suspect nothing ever came of him. 786 00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:08,120 Speaker 1: There have been hundreds of volunteers that have searched. There 787 00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:11,120 Speaker 1: have been skeletons that have been found in a field 788 00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:16,000 Speaker 1: that were compared to dental records and X rays. Not 789 00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:24,000 Speaker 1: the girls. Psychics have pointed to oil wells nothing. We 790 00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:32,959 Speaker 1: also know that a volunteer diver dragging cars from Benbrook Lake, 791 00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:38,520 Speaker 1: possibly tied to the so called fort Worth Missing Trio. 792 00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:42,840 Speaker 1: Listen on the shore at Benbrook Laked divers were ready 793 00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:46,960 Speaker 1: to breathe the murky deep, searching for concrete answers. We're 794 00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:48,960 Speaker 1: gonna bring those cars up. We're gonna put this part 795 00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:52,120 Speaker 1: of it to rest, whether there or whether they're not. 796 00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:55,279 Speaker 1: Rusty Arnold was just eleven years old when his big 797 00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:58,840 Speaker 1: sister Rachel disappeared. The family has had missing persons posters 798 00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:02,080 Speaker 1: printed up and a reward fund Distabilis WFA has covered 799 00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:05,440 Speaker 1: the case from the beginning. She was seventeen and days 800 00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:08,080 Speaker 1: before Christmas she drove to a fort Worth mall with 801 00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:12,960 Speaker 1: her friend Renee and nine year old Julianne Moseley. Has happened, Tune? 802 00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:16,480 Speaker 1: I know. There have been countless leads and theories, including 803 00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:20,000 Speaker 1: a letter purportedly from Rachel that said the trio suddenly 804 00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:23,600 Speaker 1: decided to go to Houston, but they have never been found. 805 00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:26,640 Speaker 1: This is just a hunch, it's all it is. Rusty 806 00:53:26,719 --> 00:53:30,120 Speaker 1: believes the answer may be here. There's two vehicles over there. 807 00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:33,319 Speaker 1: Three cars found in Benbrook Lake they say have been 808 00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:36,839 Speaker 1: there since the late seventies. Next month, they plan to 809 00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:39,560 Speaker 1: pull them out and look inside. I think we all 810 00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:42,560 Speaker 1: know what I'm hoping to find. You were just hearing 811 00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:47,000 Speaker 1: from our friends at the Fort Worth Star Telegram. It 812 00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:51,600 Speaker 1: was a very dangerous dive. The car's nearly forty feet 813 00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:56,920 Speaker 1: down and pitch black water. To Dave Matt, Crime online 814 00:53:57,000 --> 00:54:00,439 Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter, what happened with the die, Well, 815 00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:04,120 Speaker 1: they actually were able to get two of there were 816 00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:06,799 Speaker 1: three cars that were found at the bottom of the lake. 817 00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:11,200 Speaker 1: They were able to bring up and they were able 818 00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:13,239 Speaker 1: to get a piece of the other one, but it 819 00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:15,960 Speaker 1: was just two. It was falling apart as they brought 820 00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:18,720 Speaker 1: it up, and they actually entered a couple of divers 821 00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:21,680 Speaker 1: in that last dive and called it off after that. 822 00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:24,960 Speaker 1: But the end result was none of those cars were 823 00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:28,560 Speaker 1: tied directly back to this case. The case is now 824 00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:32,640 Speaker 1: being reopened and assigned to a homicide detective. He believes 825 00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:37,759 Speaker 1: the girls left them all with someone they trusted. He 826 00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:41,160 Speaker 1: says that they were at one point scene with one individual, 827 00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:46,960 Speaker 1: but believed there was more than one person involved. To 828 00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:50,520 Speaker 1: Kim Cadell, what do you make of it, I definitely 829 00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:53,280 Speaker 1: think it was somebody that they knew and trusted and 830 00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:57,400 Speaker 1: with Sandy. I do believe that that letter, you know, 831 00:54:57,480 --> 00:55:00,680 Speaker 1: to throw the investigation off and bit of time to 832 00:55:00,719 --> 00:55:05,880 Speaker 1: Sandy Harcom, Julie's aunt, Sandy, what do you believe happened? Well, again, 833 00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:09,840 Speaker 1: I believe that they did involves someone that the older 834 00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:14,239 Speaker 1: girl knew, and that Julie and maybe even Renee were 835 00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:17,840 Speaker 1: just in the wrong place at the wrong time. I 836 00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:20,279 Speaker 1: don't know that they were taken from the mall. It 837 00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:22,799 Speaker 1: could have been that they went somewhere in the car, 838 00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:26,640 Speaker 1: something happened, and whoever drove the car back to the 839 00:55:26,680 --> 00:55:30,680 Speaker 1: mall and left it there. And finally to Richard Wilson, Richard, 840 00:55:30,719 --> 00:55:34,440 Speaker 1: what do you believe happened? Really? I really don't know, 841 00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:37,720 Speaker 1: Dave mac what is the theory cops are working with Nancy. 842 00:55:38,520 --> 00:55:43,600 Speaker 1: The basic thing they're looking at is that, other than 843 00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:46,960 Speaker 1: the girls running off, is that they actually went willingly 844 00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:51,000 Speaker 1: with somebody they knew. Ostensibly, they believe that Rachel might 845 00:55:51,040 --> 00:55:56,239 Speaker 1: have known the individual and that they left with her then, 846 00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:59,919 Speaker 1: but a years later Nancy were left with not much 847 00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:03,320 Speaker 1: more than they knew the day after they got the letter. 848 00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:06,319 Speaker 1: It's just been sitting there for all these years. And 849 00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:09,200 Speaker 1: as mister Wilson pointed out at the very beginning, the 850 00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:13,080 Speaker 1: first detective placed on the case didn't seem to follow 851 00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:16,400 Speaker 1: up anything. It's coact. You know, they never fingerprinted the vehicle. 852 00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:20,480 Speaker 1: They might not. They didn't do anything with the car, 853 00:56:20,560 --> 00:56:24,319 Speaker 1: They didn't do any kind of investigation. Could I say something? Yes? 854 00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:27,440 Speaker 1: Jump in. My sister and I went a couple of 855 00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:30,400 Speaker 1: months later to the police department. I mean it was 856 00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:32,799 Speaker 1: one of the many times that we had gone, but 857 00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:35,560 Speaker 1: just to see how the investigation was going. And the 858 00:56:35,640 --> 00:56:39,600 Speaker 1: detectives told us, and I'm going to quote that, well, 859 00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:43,720 Speaker 1: at this time, we're really not looking because Easter's coming 860 00:56:43,880 --> 00:56:45,520 Speaker 1: and we think they're going to be found with the 861 00:56:45,560 --> 00:56:48,799 Speaker 1: Easter eggs, meaning people are out and about and they're 862 00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:53,200 Speaker 1: going to find them. Tiger, What if anything can be 863 00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:58,480 Speaker 1: done now, well, you know sort of said being redound 864 00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:02,960 Speaker 1: or done carefully on the envelope. This is the frustrations 865 00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:06,600 Speaker 1: because you have nobody, You have no physical evidence at 866 00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:09,360 Speaker 1: all other than that letter, and unless somebody comes across 867 00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:12,840 Speaker 1: the bodies somewhere, and they haven't in forty seven years, 868 00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:15,640 Speaker 1: so the odds are there not. I don't know what 869 00:57:15,640 --> 00:57:17,680 Speaker 1: else you could do, but I think the best route 870 00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:20,720 Speaker 1: would be to take that DNA and do some genealogy 871 00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:23,000 Speaker 1: on it. That may be your only hope. And to 872 00:57:23,240 --> 00:57:27,520 Speaker 1: Sheryl McCollum, you are the founder of the Cold Case 873 00:57:27,600 --> 00:57:31,640 Speaker 1: Investigative Research Institute. What can be done now, Nancy? I 874 00:57:31,680 --> 00:57:34,600 Speaker 1: think you can also go back and talk to every 875 00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:39,360 Speaker 1: single person again. The family can go back and say, hey, 876 00:57:39,960 --> 00:57:43,760 Speaker 1: now that we're talking, I did notice that X never 877 00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:48,120 Speaker 1: search for them, or X never seems concerned, or X 878 00:57:48,240 --> 00:57:51,520 Speaker 1: wanted to move past it and make you know everything 879 00:57:51,600 --> 00:57:53,200 Speaker 1: better and just say, hey, you know they're going to 880 00:57:53,240 --> 00:57:56,560 Speaker 1: turn up or whatever. It is odd to me that 881 00:57:56,720 --> 00:57:59,880 Speaker 1: somebody that would be a stranger that we kidnap three 882 00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:04,200 Speaker 1: young women would send something with potential evidence on it 883 00:58:05,120 --> 00:58:09,560 Speaker 1: telling people where to find the car. That just doesn't 884 00:58:09,640 --> 00:58:14,320 Speaker 1: ring true for any reason. And if you kidnap three 885 00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:17,080 Speaker 1: people and you're by yourself, which is hard to do, 886 00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:20,240 Speaker 1: one of them would have run. So it's difficult for 887 00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:22,280 Speaker 1: me to believe that you've got three people in a 888 00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:28,360 Speaker 1: car by force alone. And then within an hour you've 889 00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:32,520 Speaker 1: supposedly nailed some letter using two different writing instruments, and 890 00:58:32,600 --> 00:58:34,479 Speaker 1: you just happen to have an envelope, and you happen 891 00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:36,840 Speaker 1: to have a way to handload it. You happen to 892 00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:39,160 Speaker 1: have a stamp. I mean, none of this rings truth. 893 00:58:40,160 --> 00:58:43,640 Speaker 1: I mean it just doesn't. There's something very wrong with 894 00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:46,440 Speaker 1: the story. There's trying to get us to believe, and 895 00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:47,680 Speaker 1: I'm talking about the perfect